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HomeMy WebLinkAboutJuly 18, 2006 C/C Minutes "~ ~ Meridian City Council July 18, 2006 Page 27 of 56 Rountree: I move that we approve the preliminary plat for Item 17, PP 06-022. Bird: Second. De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion to approve Item 17. If there is no discussion, Mr. Berg, will you call roll. - - - _, __I3~~I-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Borton, absent. MOTION-CJffiR-J-EB:--T1::i8~E AYES. ONE ABSENT. Item 18: PUblic Hearing: AZ 06-024 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 10.17 acres from RUT to an R-4 zone for Napoli Subdivision by Briggs Engineering - east of Eagle Road and south of Zeldia Lane: Item 19: Public Hearing: PP 06-023 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 29 residential lots and 3 common lots on 9.44 acres in a proposed R-4 zone for Napoli Subdivision by Briggs Engineering -east of Eagle Road and south of Zeldia Lane: De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Berg. Okay. Items 18 and 19 are public hearings on AZ 06- 024 and PP 06-023. I will open these two items with staff comments. Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is the Napoli project and you just -- it's a very similar project, although it's on the opposite corner of the area of city impact. It is located on the east side of Eagle Road and south of Zeldia Lane. Zeldia Lane, as you may recall, was kind of the dividing line -- here is the property here -- for the Kingsbridge application on the east side of Eagle Road. The applications before you tonight are, again, annexation and zoning and preliminary plat. The gross residential density is 3.07 dwelling units per acre. They are requesting zoning to R-4 for 10.17 acres and the plat approval of 29 single family residential lots. Approximately 10.61 percent of the site is being set aside for open space. I did want to point out that similar to the Quarterhorse Subdivision, which got approved a few weeks ago, they are dedicating a road where a private lane used to be. So, this is Zeldia Lane is in this location. They are giving up their rights to Zeldia Lane and, then, putting a public road there instead that would continue to the neighboring properties. There was some question, since the Planning and Zoning Commission, about the fencing that's being proposed and we did receive word from the applicant that instead of the four foot fencing that was originally approved -- or considered, that they are proposing six foot fencing on the eastern and southern boundaries. The Council will need to ask for site specific conditions 1.15 to be amended to address that new developmont. We do not have the elevations. Again, these are detached products on relatively large lots. The Commission has recommended approval of this project at their June 15th hearing. Kevin Harris from Briggs spoke in favor of the application. Bradford Dedman, Don Morgan, Phil DeAngeli and Frank Shoemaker spoke in opposition and Sherry Lewis commented. The key issues of discussion by the Commission were the Comprehensive ~ Meridian City Council July 18, 2006 Page 28 of 56 Plan designation, which is medium density residential in this area, Zeldia Lane, and the density of the proposed project. There were no changes to staffs initial recommendations. There is a letter in your packet, I believe, from Phillip and Judy DeAngeli regarding lot size and density and that's the only outstanding issue that we are aware of and I'll answer any questions that Council may have. De Weerd: Okay. Council, do you have any questions? Bird: Not at this time, Mayor. Rountree: None right now. De Weerd: Okay. Is the applicant here? If you will, please, state your name and address for the record. Whitehead: Absolutely. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, my name is Sabrina Whitehead, I am here on behalf of FMC Development and Briggs Engineering. My address is 1800 West Overland Road, Boise. Idaho. 83705. Excuse me. I'm before you this evening again for annexation, zoning, and preliminary plat for Napoli Subdivision, which is 10.17 acres. This development that we are requesting is a zoning from RUT to R-4, medium low density, and is asking for 29 single family residential lots. Napoli is asking for a density of 3.07 dwelling units per acre, which is harmonious with the City of Meridian's Comprehensive Plan, as designated medium density. With proposed lot sizes of 17,113 as our largest, to our smallest of 8,500, we believe the range of lot sizes will provide a nice transition from low density residential, as the Kingsbridge is to the north, to the future medium density residential as hasn't been developed. which is in Ada County, but it could be more intense density than what we are currently proposing. Our development is also proposing larger lots, which are adjacent to the county land. Therefore, leaving the smaller lots adjacent to Eagle Road and the middle of our proposed subdivision. This will help create a buffer from larger county lots to the density that we are requesting, as in supporting my position of more of a transitional buffer. We feel, again, that this subdivision will be an asset for the city and that it remains harmonious with the City of Meridian's Comprehensive Plan. Great thought from the developer has been put into helping make this transition and coordinate the lot sizes accordingly in our subdivision. I, again, thank you for your time and consideration and respectfully request that you approve our annexation, rezone, and preliminary plat. And I will stand for any questions De Weerd: Council, do you have questions? Bird: Not at this point. De Weerd: Can you tell us a little bit about your open space, where is it, and what amenities are included? Meridian City Council July 18, 2006 Page 29 of 56 Whitehead: Our open space is -- as you can see from the landscape we have landscaping all the way around and what the city -- instead of having an open space, what we are having is detached sidewalk and eight foot planter strips in between that will be landscaped. That is considered in our open space. De Weerd: So, that's your only open space? Whitehead: Uh-huh. De Weerd: Okay. Whitehead: I believe -- and I'd have to refer to Anna, but that was kind of with the city's support, so I was told. Canning: Madam Mayor, they do qualify for the minimum. Because this is not a collector street, they actually get to count all the additional landscaping they do along Zeldia Lane. De Weerd: Okay. Well, I know we are trying to encourage the parkway and the detached sidewalks. I guess I wasn't aware that that was part of our usable open space requirement. Canning: Yes, ma'am, it is. We subtract out the area for the driveways, but we do count that. And on the larger lots, because they do have so much frontage, it adds up rather quickly. And, again, in addition to the additional landscaping that is on Zeldia, it does add up quickly. They do have ten percent, it's just not in a centralized lot. De Weerd: Okay. Okay. Thank you. I do have a number of people that have signed up. If you would like to provide testimony when I read your name, if you will, please, come forward. Gladys Allen against. If you will, please, state your name and address for the record. Allen: I'm Gladys Allen. 4617 South Martinel in Meridian. De Weerd: Thank you. Allen: We live in Martinel Subdivision, which is south of this proposed subdivision, and I would like to point out to the Council that all the other subdivisions in this area have larger lots and are larger tracts. The Martinel Subdivision that we live in has ten plus acres in each tract. And the subdivision adjoining on the east is comprised of five plus acres. The Dartmoor Subdivision has larger lots, which is very close to this, and the new Kingsbridge Subdivision has lots of 15,000 feet -- square feet, with frontages of 155 to 165 feet. This subdivision as proposed has smaller lots than anything in this area. With the smaller lots we will undoubtedly see being built smaller houses and, there again, it is not compatible with the other lots and the other houses and acreages in this area. Therefore, we are opposed to this preliminary plat that is as it is presently being Meridian City Council July 18, 2006 Page 30 of 56 presented. We would like to have lots no smaller than those being presented in the Kingsbridge Subdivision right next to it, the new one. De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Okay. Don and Marie Morgan signed up against. Morgan: Madam Mayor, Councilmembers, my name is Don Morgan. De Weerd: If you can pull that up. You're taller than our other applicant. Morgan: Okay. Madam Mayor, Councilmembers, my name is Don Morgan, I reside at 4620 South Martinel Lane, which shares about 80 feet of adjacent border with the Napoli proposal. As Gladys just pointed out, this subdivision as presently proposed would be an island of smaller lots surrounded on all sides by larger lots and starting at the neighborhood meetings and all the way to the Planning and Zoning meeting we attended on the 15th, the neighborhood has spoken out against that and the Planning and Zoning people asserted that they don't have any authority to change that because of the Comprehensive Plan, which has this shown as medium density. Therefore, what I would like to see happen in this City Council meeting would be to reconsider the -- that section of the Comprehensive Plan and consider changing that to something that would allow the half acre lots that would be harmonious with the Kingsbridge approval that just happened and would be I think a better transition towards the half acre -- I mean the five acre and ten acre lots that are surrounding on the south and east side of their proposal. I would propose that the annexation and the preliminary plat be rejected as presently approved -- or as presently proposed and consideration of changing the Comprehensive Plan and having them resubmit with larger lots. Thank you. De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Anna, I guess I have a question for you. In these development applications, they can do a step up or a step down, can they not? Canning: Yes. We have started asking people to justify more why they are doing the step up and step down. We are trying to keep people at the proposed density or close to it. De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Roger and Theresa Taylor signed up against. Taylor: I'm Roger Taylor, 4606 South Eagle Road. I'm just south of this proposed subdivision. I have got the same concerns as everybody else on this density of the lots. I would think half acre lots would fit in much better with everybody else. And, then, I have got a concern with the irrigation. There has been no mention of how they are going to take care of the irrigation water or any of that. But my main concern is the density. I would like to see the larger fronts, so they could put single story houses there, instead of having to go up with two story and a wider frontage would do that. Thank you. De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Bradford Dedman signed up against. Meridian City Council July 18, 2006 Page 31 of 56 Dedman: Thank you, folks. I'm Bradford Dedman. De Weerd: You can pull that up, if you would like. Dedman: Sorry. De Weerd: Thank you. Dedman: I reside at 3644 East Zeldia. And many of you may recall -- there is my nervous twitch again -- that my wife and I reside here on Zeldia and I attended every single meeting that I possibly could with regard to the development of the Kingsbridge Subdivision. I did submit a letter last week and, hopefully, it is in the office somewhere. But I also sent a letter to Planning and Zoning a month ago. I do thank everybody who may have been able to read anything that I participated with at this point. I urge you to look back at the effort that Vision First went through to work with the neighbors and the City of Meridian back throughout the course of their development over the last two years. They cared, because they were moving into our community. The applicant, as far as I understood, did not schedule any type of a neighborhood meeting before providing this application and I did not participate, because I had no invitation to that. I also attended everything that Kingsbridge participated in and felt like we were all part of an instrumental cause here. I honestly feel that this applicant chose a path of least resistance because of a lack of care for our community, as they are moving from Meridian. The density is far from consistent with adjacent properties and circumvents all the efforts of Vision First, Dartmoor, the Zeldia neighborhoods, and many other folks have placed on thoughtful design. At the very least the proposal should mirror Kingsbridge buffer, their density. and lot transition. And so far I have witnessed a failure to do so. The transition of old to new is buffered nicely on the north side of Zeldia, again, due to Vision First, but I see very little of that, a very bare minimum and it's also provided, I believe, completely contained within their open space. What I'd like to see is a more succinct plan that also demonstrates exactly how my private street -- my private lane, Zeldia Lane, will be cut and become partially a public street. I saw a couple things that were -- I heard a couple things that were very nice to hear tonight. I was very pleased to learn of Keith Bird's very crystal clear opinion of children's safety with regard to sidewalks. And with density comes kids. I'm quite convinced that the proposal provides merely the minimum amount of open space. Kids do not want to play in a fine strip of land and a respectful game of soccer was never played on a front yard measuring 15 by 60 feet. A foul ball might roll into Zeldia Lane, but I do believe that a kick could make it all the way out to Eagle Road. I believe in full disclosure and not sugar coating. Mrs. Whitehead spoke of a range of lot sizes starting at the top of 17,000 feet and ranging down to 8,500. It should be clarified that on the plot that I noticed, there is one lot that is 17,000 feet. The lot below it, lot No.2, by all indications is 11,500. Thank you very much. De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Judy DeAngeli. Meridian City Council July 18, 2006 Page 32 of 56 DeAngeli: It's Phillip DeAngeli. I'm at 3405 Zeldia Lane. De Weerd: Thank you. And I apologize for mispronouncing your name. OeAngeli: That's all right. I'm used to it. This is my lot right here on this border. We moved here in -- from downtown Meridian about four years ago into a rural atmosphere. Our neighbors are also local folks that joined us out there and we felt it would be there forever with no growth, but, naturally, it's there, so we are dealing with it. We all like it there and we want to -- we want to stay. My neighbors and I feel that there is an obvious line. It's a sharp line of distinction between 29 houses on 9.4 acres and five and ten acre lots that are adjacent to them, but the Planning and Zoning report says -- and the applicant that they find this annexation will provide lots which are similar in nature to other subdivisions in the vicinity. But if you look at the vicinity we have got my lot here on the east. My subdivision is five acre lots. Martinel down here is ten acre lots. Off to the east is Coons Hollow, five acre lots, and, then, your Kingsbridge is the newcomer here, with Oartmoor just to the north of it. But Kingsbridge as you know has supplied a real nice transition for the larger lots in the county. So, there is really not even a vague similarity between this subdivision and the subdivisions in the vicinity. This report also states, the staff report from the Planning and Zoning, that these lots will transition well with the existing rural lots and there is nothing could be further from the truth as far as I'm concerned. Also under the goals and objectives as it states new urban densities that abut or are even proximal to lower densities, that are residential, are to provide screening or transitional densities with larger, more comparable lot sizes to interface between rural and suburban -- or urban and rural densities. And that's what this case is. You have got urban right up against rural now. And so that's not even a hint of transition in this. I have -- I asked the developer on several occasions for some kind of transition on the perimeter. but I get no response. The staff report also states that the large lots are placed on the perimeter to provide transition between the large county parcels and the smaller internal lots, but if you look at the lots next to me -- this is my house right here -- these lots and these lots -- in this case here the internal lots are either larger or almost identical in size to these lots that interface to me. Am I done? De Weerd: If you could summarize. DeAngeli: Okay. De Weerd: Thank you. DeAngeli: Anyway, last year the city held Kingsbridge to 1.69 houses per acre with 155 foot wide lots interlacing to use and I'm just asking to hold Napoli to the same standard and help to save our neighborhood here. I'm also concerned about the sewage storage system that's going to be installed there. We didn't know anything about it, because it's brand new, I guess, and we have lots of questions and I gave some to our city engineer Len Grady earlier and I was hoping he could explain what that's all about and it's kind of scary for me, because right on that border there is where my bedroom is open and if there is any odor or something like that would be pretty concerned, so -- Meridian City Council July 18, 2006 Page 33 of 56 De Weerd: Len, this will be connected to city sewer; correct? DeAngeli: And, then, could we, please, have questions from Len when he finishes? Or not? Maybe that's not the right -- De Weerd: Yes_ And, sir, I have a question for you as well once Mr. Grady can answer your question. DeAngeli: Okay. Well, he's got a list of questions. That might be easier than -- so I'll stand by here. Grady: Madam Mayor, yes, it will be -- it will be connected to city services. The short story on what's going on is about three or four months ago it became apparent that we were -- with our fast growth pace in the south that we were approaching capacity on our Ten Mile Trunk. In order to keep development moving and not stop waiting for the Black Cat Trunk to cross, we continued to try to get more through that trunk. This-- what we have proposed, what I came up with, was a -- is what's effectively known as an off-peak pumping tank and, basically, it will store sewage until your peaks are over with and, then, you begin pumping during -- during the off-peak pump. My hope is that Black Cat will cross, according to schedule, and that these will never be needed. However, I think at this point it's prudent to just insure that if something goes wrong with getting Black Cat there, that we have the ability to continue to supply service. So, it's really a fail safe. De Weerd: Thank you. Does that answer the questions as listed? Grady: My eyes aren't quite what they -- could somebody read them, because my eyes, I just -- De Weerd: I don't have my glasses tonight, so I couldn't. Bird: Will this tank be located on the far western property line to avoid proximity with existing neighbors' homes? Grady: It certainly can be located towards the west. I believe it is flowing northwest in that area. I haven't seen the final layout on what they are proposing, but that should not be a problem. Bird: Will it be designed fail safe, gravity feed exit to sewer line if pump fails? Grady: Absolutely. Again, it's my intention that this off-peak pumping not be required. It's there just in case we can't get Black Cat on line. So, it won't be utilized until some point in the future and so my intention is that they will be gravity flowing most, if not all the time. As far as fail safe, we always require a redundant pump and backup system, so -- Meridian City Council July 18, 2006 Page 34 of 56 Bird: Does any odor escape? Grady: The developers are required to provide aeration and to -- if required, put a facility in for adding chemicals. Bird: What is the tank made of and is it guaranteed not to leak? Grady: The one that we have at Black Rock was made out of concrete. probably -- I went out and looked at it the other day. I think it could withstand a bomb attack. It's really heavy duty. But we are not requiring -- because these are temporary facilities, you know, at best they'd only be in the ground one to two years, we are considering allowing ABS, that type of material. So, they will be designed and approved by aPE. Bird: Okay. You answered the next -- you answered the next one, then. It's temporary and one or two years at the max. Grady: That's what we are shooting for. Bird: Does any portion of the tank protrude above ground? Grady: It's certainly not necessary for any of that tank to be above ground. It has to by design be below ground. Bird: How many of these systems have been installed in the valley? Some of us would like to see what they look like. Grady: Certainly. Go -- Black Rock's in the ground and they have two of them installed there, so -- that's Eagle and Amity area. De Weerd: Now, Len, would they be able to see that if they are underground? Grady: They are still open, so they can take a look and peak down in there and see what's going on. I don't believe the pumps are in yet, but I think they will begin to get the yet idea what's going on there as far as the tank itself. Bird: They aren't up and running yet. De Weerd: Thank you, Len. Grady: Okay. De Weerd: Sir, I wanted to find out did the neighborhood -- or did the applicant have a neighborhood meeting? Meridian City Council July 18,2006 Page 35 of 56 DeAngeli: Yes. There was an initial meeting with a different engineering firm and at that meeting there was a rough sketch of -- I believe it was 25 houses proposed and everyone present at the meeting said that we felt that it was far too dense and the applicant said that it probably wouldn't be that dense, ultimately. But, then, with the new engineering firm, the density changed from 25 up to 29 houses and the frontages became even smaller -- the adjacent lots became even narrower. Right now those lots are -- facing me are only 80 feet wide, which would almost preclude anybody from building a two story house. I don't think you can get a three car garage on there. All they can do is go straight up with two story, which is really not a good site out there in flat country. The whole western horizon from our home would just be blurred out by a wall of siding and so -- but once you get those lots spread out like Kingsbridge into 150 foot lots, there is some room in between to observe the rest of the world. De Weerd: Thank you, sir. DeAngeli: Okay. De Weerd: Mr. Frank Shoemaker signed up against. Shoemaker: Good evening. My name is Frank Shoemaker and I live -- pardon me. I have a five acre parcel to the adjacent -- let's see. Right there. That's my dwelling right there. I would like the Council members to recall that Kingsbridge Subdivision that's been mentioned here extensively -- and I think we all understand the opposition when Kingsbridge came in with their high density plan. This plan they proposed was based upon the Comprehensive Plan and the Council at that time stated that this was a unique area and maybe this was too high density of a project and, therefore, Kingsbridge went back to the drawing board and after a year and a half or so of hearings and meetings, they ultimately came up with a subdivision that has extensive common area and I believe along our -- this area right here we have 15,500 square feet as a minimum lot size. There is a six foot berm, plus a six foot fence on top of that, and one story dwellings, you know, which is seldom seen in the valley. So, they really wanted to make it a nice transition, so we wouldn't be looking at backyards of those dwellings. Napoli as proposed is a contradiction to what the Kingsbridge Subdivision was ultimately approved as. We have -- my understanding was 9,200 square feet was the average along this perimeter here. As Mr. DeAngeli stated, that results in 80 foot wide lots, two story houses. I did provide a disk with some photos. Do you have those? Canning: I have the paper copies, sir. The disks get -- and I think the Council has all of them. I can put them up, it's just the disks of photos sometimes get hung up on this computer. It's a little older. Shoemaker: Okay. Thank you. But, anyway, what I was trying to show was in the transition areas you have two story homes with a six foot fence and what you see is a 20 foot -- I mean that's what we might possibly see. Nothing has ever been shown as a -- we did have some preliminary plans on the front elevations. but they were -- as you can see there is more of a transition. You have some one and -- not so many two Meridian City Council July 18, 2006 Page 36 of 56 stories there. You know -- and here, again, this would be what we could visualize on our side. That's not too bad, really. I mean it's better than some, but it's still a two story and those are larger lots. So, if you make it down into the smaller lots -- like this is Woodbridge here, these people didn't complain because it's going to be commercial, so -- and, then, this is -- go to the next one, please. Am I up in time? De Weerd: Yeah. You can start to summarize. Shoemaker: Okay. To summarize. I think Napoli as approved is a contradiction to the Kingsbridge Subdivision. I also think that the Comprehensive Plan is -- is the culprit for this, as it identifies a developer that they can do that and that's all the developer did. They are only following the Comprehensive Plan. I would like to state in the P&Z hearing that they stated that they understood our concern, they felt that they had no control over the Comprehensive Plan and had to follow the intent of the plan, thus, they approved to -- the proposed plat as proposed. And even Commissioner Borup stated they like to see at least less lots and more common area. I mean we have no common area in this project, so -- traffic is a concern. We have two streets coming in on Zeldia Lane. According to Ada County you cannot have one on Eagle Road, so we have two streets coming on Zeldia, we have 29 houses. There is going to be congestion within the project, plus Zeldia Lane residents and, then, across the road from South Eagle, which is a two lane road, no turn lanes, we have an extension of the Tuscany Lakes Village. So, now we have to exit onto South Eagle. We also have the traffic of the 400 plus houses going in across the street. It's really creating quite a congestion, a nightmare. Thank you. De Weerd: Thank you, sir. Okay. Those are the names that signed up to testify. Is there any further additional public testimony? Sir. If you will. please, state your name and address for the record. Berdick: Madam Mayor, Justin Berdick, 4280 South Eagle Road. In regards to Phil DeAngeli's comment about the neighborhood meeting, I was at the neighborhood meeting. We didn't have an engineering firm assigned at that time. I guess the biggest issue is lot size and especially along the east side of the property and I guess we followed the -- as far as what the plan wanted. Kingsbridge -- the only reason why they continued on close to Zeldia is because their other phase was in a different zoning and from my understanding. Is that correct, Anna, that -- Canning: Different Comprehensive Plan designation on the northern portion. Berdick: So, they were asked to continue the same density down. I guess to ease the neighbors' minds, we started out -- in our neighborhood meeting we had 32 original lots, not 25, and, once again, their issue was there was, you know, way too high of density. We went back and we had a gross density of -- I think it was around 2.7 or 2_8 when we went to our pre-app meeting. Staff asked us to up it to get it closer to three, so that's what we did. I think -- you know, we followed along the gUidelines of what everyone wanted. In their situation we would be willing to drop a lot along the bordering property Meridian City Council July 18, 2006 Page 37 of 56 along the five acres toward Phil DeAngeli. If that would make the lots continue larger, you know, we -- we don't like conflict, but I guess you just have to draw the line on do you follow the rules or do you stay with what people want. So, that's all I have, if there is any questions. De Weerd: Council, any questions? Rountree: Madam Mayor, it seems like there was an initial discussion with the neighborhood out there, but no follow through, no engagement, probably not a fall back position that the Comp Plan says we have got to do this, but, in fact, the Comp Plan says this is what the minimum would be. The Comp Plan will allow something more than this; correct? Canning: The medium density Comprehensive Plan designation has a target of three dwelling units to eight dwelling units per acre. So, it has both ends. But it does say you can request a step up or a step down. We have been trying to keep people at their assigned level, so -- Rountree: So, my question to you is would you be -- and I'm presupposing here, but just for me to know, depending on the action taken this evening, are you open to having yet another neighborhood meeting to discuss what the options might be for you and what you might be willing to do? Berdick: I would and as far as follow up, I went around every one of these folks, I gave them -- anytime we had a change on a preliminary plat, I'd go around and explain to them this is what we did, this is what the meetings went to. Rountree: Excuse us, folks, we are -- Bird: Yeah. Berdick: Anyways, I gave it to DeAngelis, Don Morgan, Gladys Allen I missed, by Don Morgan, and I put it in -- on their hanger on their mailbox and Roger Taylor I sat and spoke with him one evening. And Phil -- he actually had two of them. The first one that was the lower density and, then, the second one when we revised it after the pre-app meeting. So. in regards to your question. it's lower lots -- Rountree: I didn't say that. Berdick: Oh. Sorry. Rountree: I asked would you be willing -- Berdick: For a neighborhood meeting? Rountree: Yes. Meridian City Council July 18, 2006 Page 38 of 56 Berdick: I mean there is, obviously, issues, so -- yeah. Rountree: Okay. Thank you. De Weerd: Okay. Additional questions, Council? Bird: I got one question, Madam Mayor, if I could. De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: Were you the owner of this property when Kingsbridge come through? Berdick: Yes. Well, my family Is. Bird: Your family was. Yeah. Berdick: Yes. Bird: And you did testify at Kingsbridge, if I recall? Berdick: I didn't, no. We did not. Bird: Your family did? Berdick: No, we did not. Bird: Did not. Thank you. De Weerd: Any other questions? Okay. Thank you. Is there any further testimony? Ma'am, you have already testified. Would the applicant like to wrap this up, have closing remarks? Whitehead: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, again, for the record Sabrina Whitehead, 1800 West Overland Road, Boise, Idaho. 83705. I have done a lot of neighborhood meetings, I have done a lot of pre-plats. I completely understand the neighbors' concerns and I know Justin wants to be a good neighbor and a good developer. I would just like to make a few comments just to clarify a few issues. De Weerd: Sabrina, could I ask you to pull the mike a little further away? Whitehead: Oh, am I too loud to you? De Weerd: Yes. Whitehead: Oh, I'm sorry. Meridian City Council July 18,2006 Page 39 of 56 De Weerd: Thank you. Whitehead: Absolutely. I apologize. If we could go to the Comprehensive Plan zoning map, Anna, please? Thank you. Here is the subject property. To the east and south is zoned RUT. It's in Ada County. As far as five acre lots, half acre lots, that is most definitely appropriate for county zoning. However, across the street is Messina Meadows. They have the zoning of R-8. Much much higher density than what we are asking for. Where the Comp Plan slows down -- or kind of cuts apart is this is -- up here is lower density. This subdivision definitely is lower density. In the Comprehensive Plan as noted is medium density. The range is 3.0 to 8.0. We are asking for the bare minimum. Now, Anna, if we could, please, go the preliminary plat. As just noted, we are willing to transition -- would take one more lot out, but these are larger lots, 11,000, 9,000 square foot lots, 17,000 -- I know that's the largest one and I did notate that. But these are larger lots than the 8,000 lots. So, there is a buffer with an additional lot that would make an additional buffer for a transition. As far as -- sorry, let me get my bearing real quick. Irrigation water concerns. That would all be addressed during -- with our construction documents. We are not going to interfere with anyone's water rights. That's Idaho code. We dare not to. And so those will be handled at an engineer level and those will be -- as far as water rights. As Justin knows, a neighborhood meeting was done and, unfortunately, I wasn't the planner who handled the neighborhood meeting. I agree, I like to have several neighborhood meetings to make sure the neighbors' issues have been handled. If another neighborhood meeting would be required, I -- I don't know how the applicant would feel. We could possibly table and have another neighborhood meeting if you felt that would be appropriate. But I just wanted to make some few notes as far as the zoning and the surrounding subdivision. So, I will stand for any questions. De Weerd: Council, any questions? Bird: I have none. Rountree: I have none further. De Weerd: I guess I do have a comment and -- Whitehead: Sure. De Weerd: -- and we know we are going to find this in the south in more places than just this and Council has been sensitive to the larger RUT lots and their desire to maintain and to have a better transition and I have heard them ask for 12,000 minimum and be -- have an apparent better transition and I guess -- staff cringes every time I start talking, especially about lot sizes sometimes. Just because of what's happening across the street does not make it something that is desirable. We are bringing in higher quality jobs and we need housing opportunities to house them, so they don't all have to Meridian City Council July 18, 2006 Page 40 of 56 live in other communities. So, you know, personally, I am looking for a diversity in housing choices that are going to balance the choices. And I'm only speaking for me. Whitehead: Sure. De Weerd: So -- but I think this is a unique area in how it's been developing out and how people have said we want to stay around. With that said also to the neighbors, we heard that in Kingsbridge and many of the neighbors who were pushing for the larger lots are now selling theirs and they are coming up with even higher densities than what abuts them. So, we have seen both sides of this and we are trying to find what that balance really is. But there is a transition necessary here and -- and I see that there is a market in the south to have some executive housing to -- to answer to the types of jobs that we are really trying to attract and I will get off my soap box now. Whitehead: Absolutely. Thank you. De Weerd: I know. Council always appreciates that, too. Anything further, Council? Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: If I could say something. I agree with what the Mayor said. I think she's a hundred percent right and the sad part of it is some of the people that are in here, not wanting this to go with this density, will, one of these days, probably be in subdividing their ten or five acres wanting the high density. But that don't make it right. I'm like Councilman Rountree, I'd like to see you have another neighborhood meeting. I would be willing to continue this, see if you can't get some larger lots along that -- you know, along the side and stuff where you back up to the larger deals and I will assure you, as long as I'm on the Council, this is a standard that I want to see out there. What we have done in the past maybe hasn't been right, but I -- I think we need an area where the density isn't so high and I think this area is a good place to start. That's my personal opinion. De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Whitehead: Thank you. De Weerd: Okay. Council? Rountree: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Rountree. Rountree: If there is no further testimony this evening, I would move that we continue the Public Hearings for Items 18 and 19 and give the applicant and their planning and ~ Meridian City Council July 18, 2006 Page 41 of 56 engineering support an opportunity to have another public meeting with the neighborhood and work on the issues that they have heard this evening, work on the philosophy they have heard this evening from the Council, and see if there is a common ground and bring their resolve back to the Council. I'm looking at the city clerk for a date certain. Wardle: National Night Out is the 1 st. Bird: Should be the 8th. Rountree: August 15th, 2006? Is that doable? Okay. Bird: I would second that motion. De Weerd: Okay. Wardle: Have a motion and a second. Discussion? De Weerd: There is no discussion on that kind of a motion. But we can ask for clarity if we can give further clarity to the developer and to the neighbors of what we are looking for. So, I do have a motion and a second to continue Items 18 and 18 to August 15th. All those in favor say aye. Okay. All ayes. Motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT. De Weerd: Mr. Wardle. Wardle: Okay. Madam Mayor, I was just going to -- as far as clarity, in my position on these larger lot subdivisions that abut future development within the Comprehensive Plan, I have good faith that the applicant can work with the neighbors. I have been one that, from a density perspective, don't necessarily feel that a huge transition can necessarily be made from -- you know, there is certainly some room, but I haven't been a proponent of the R-2 zones in the past, wasn't in the Kingsbridge Subdivision, just would like to state that I have it on the record for certain developments, certain sources, but ask the city clerk if you have further questions. Rountree: And we remember them well. De Weerd: Unfortunately, you're one vote. And I'm only a tie breaker, so -- staff, you had also asked a question on fencing for a change on the south and the east side. Canning: They had proposed new fencing and the condition just states construct four foot fencing as proposed, but they are now proposing six foot fencing. De Weerd: Okay. So, if that can be part of the discussion with the neighbors and -- okay.