HomeMy WebLinkAbout1995 05-16
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL
AGENDA
TUESDAY, MAY 16,1995 -7:30 P.M.
CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS
MINUTES OF PREVIOUS MEETING HELD MAY 2,1995:
(APPROVED)
1. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR ANNEXATION AND ZONING OF C-G FOR
74 ACRES BY E.l. BEWS: (TABLE UNTil JUNE 20,1995)
2. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A
VARIETY OF MIXED, PLANNED BUSINESS AND RESIDENTIAL LAND
USES BY E.l. BEWS: (TABLE UNTil JUNE 20,1995)
3. STEINER DEVELOPMENT: APPEAL PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION
RECOMMENDATION: (DENY APPEAL)
4. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR ANNEXATION AND ZONING TO R-4 AND
R-15 FOR 45.46 ACRES FOR THE LAKE AT CHERRY LANE NO.5 & 6
BY STEINER DEVELOPMENT: (REMAND BACK TO P & Z)
5. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A PRELIMINARY PLAT FOR THE LAKE
AT CHERRY LANE NO.5 & 6 93 lOTS BY STEINER DEVELOPMENT:
(REMAND BACK TO P & Z)
6. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR ANNEXATION AND ZONING TO R-8 FOR
.40 ACRE BY D.W. INC.: (APPROVED; CITY ATTORNEY TO PREPARE
ANNEXATION ORDINANCE)
7. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A PRELIMINARY PLAT FOR MAWS
ADDITION NO.3, 6 lOTS BY MAWS LIMITED PARTNERSHIP:
(APPROVED WITH CONDITIONS)
8. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A VARIANCE TO THE SETBACK
REQUIREMENT BY DAVID AND DENISE HAll: (TABLED UNTil
JUNE 6, 1995)
9. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A VARIANCE FOR A TWO YEAR TIME
EXTENSION ON RECORDING FINAL PLAT FOR GOLF VIEW NO. 4&
5 BY GOLF VIEW ESTATES LIMITED PARTNERSHIP: (TABLED UNTIL
JUNE 6,1995)
10. REQUEST FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR MANUFACTURING AND
SALE OF SPECIALTY CANDY BY THE LITTLE CHIPMUNK: (APPROVED
WITH CONDITIONS)
11. REQUEST FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A QUICK SERVICE
RESTAURANT BY MCDONALD'S INC.: (APPROVED)
12. REQUEST FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR 2 DRIVE THRU
RESTAURANTS BY RICK THOMAS: (APPROVED)
13. KAT SHUMWAY: DISCUSSION OF PIOL T RECYCLING PROGRAM: (WILL
RESCHEDULE LATER)
14. REQUEST FOR TIME EXTENSION FOR FILING FINAL PLAT FOR FIELDSTONE
MEADOWS NO.5: (APPROVED ONE YEAR EXTENSION)
15. RONALD VAN AUKER: REQUEST FOR TEMPORARY HOOK UP TO A SEPTIC
SYSTEM: (GRANT TEMPORARY HOOK UP TO SEPTIC SYSTEM FOR
ONE YEAR REQUIRING HOOK UP FEE AND BOND FOR SEWERUNE
EXTENSION)
16. WRIGHT BROTHERS/CESCO: REQUEST FOR TEMPORARY HOOK UP TO A
SEPTIC SYSTEM: (GRANT A TEMPORARY HOOK UP TO SEPTIC
SYSTEM, PAY HOOK UP FEE, LATE COMERS AGREEMENT AND
DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT)
17. BOLO'S PUB AND EATERY: REQUEST FOR BEER AND WINE LICENSE:
(APPROVED)
18. TEXACO TRAVEL CENTER: REQUEST FOR BEER AND WINE LICENSE:
(APPROVED)
19. ROBERT MONTGOMERY: PRESENTATION OF PROPOSED STORAGE
FACILITY WITHIN MERIDIAN CITY AREA OF IMPACT: (WRITE LETTER
TO ADA COUNTY)
20. TERRY ADAMS - FOREIGN TRADE ZONE: (ALLOW MAYOR TO ENTER INTO
NEGOTIATIONS ON THE FOREIGN TRADE ZONE)
21. BEDFORD PLACE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT: (APPROVED)
22. DEPARTMENT REPORTS:
A. GARY SMITH, CITY ENGINEER:
1. BID RESULTS: WELL NO. 12 PUMP REPLACEMENT: (APPROVE
CARON PUMP SYSTEMS BID FOR $77,850.00)
2. EPILEPSY LEAGUE OF IDAHO - MUD VOLLEYBALL:
B. SHARI STILES, PLANNING ADMINISTRATOR:
1. DESIGNATION OF ERO FOR SENIOR CENTER ICDBGI
PROJECT UPDATE: (APPROVED)
C. WAYNE CROOKSTON, CITY ATTORNEY
1. FOTHERGILL CC&R'S: (APPROVED)
23. EXECUTIVE SESSION:
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL
MAY 16, 1995
The regular meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order by Mayor Grant
Kingsford at 7:30 P.M,:
MEMBERS PRESENT: Walt Morrow, Max Yerrington, Bob Corrie, Ron Tolsma:
OTHERS PRESENT: Will Berg, Wayne Crookston, Gary Smith Shari Stiles, John
McCreedy, Wilma Barker, Mike Littlefield, Delores Richey, Virgil Richey, Mary Edmondson,
Lee Edmondson, Doug Campbell, G.A. Ruyl, Gary Fletcher, Forrest Kermes, Wayne
Forrey, Gerald Rice, Richard Willis, Ed Burtner, Glen Griffin, Tresha Griffin, Gary Fors,
John Timons, Karen Gallagher, Jeff Hull, Steven Bradbury, Bill Teter, Gary Lee, Ted
Hutchinson, Russ Hepworth, Bryan McKoy, Brent Adamson, Mike Caven, Brad Miller,
Michael Vance, Robert Montgomery, Terry Adamson, David Turnbull:
MINUTES OF PREVIOUS MEETING HELD MAY 2,1995:
Kingsford: Are there any corrections to those minutes?
Tolsma: Mr. Mayor I move they be approved as written.
Yerrington: Second
Kingsford: Moved by Ron, second by Max to approve the May 2nd minutes, all those in
favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
ITEM #1: PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR ANNEXATION AND ZONING OF C-G
FOR 74 ACRES BY E. L. SEWS:
Kingsford: At this time I will open the public hearing and invite the applicant or his
designee to speak first.
Wayne Forrey, 52 East Franklin Road, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Forrey: Mayor and members of the Council, my name is Wayne Forrey and I am working
with Ed Sews. Ed is a native of Eagle and Meridian, in fact he graduated from Meridian
High School I think about 50 years ago, he has a reunion this summer. He has owned
property along Franklin Road, which border to Interstate 84 about 17 years. I am going
to show you a few aerial views of that property and walk through some of the history of this
project to be very concise I know there are some folks that want to testify on this tonight.
This is looking towards the east and in the foreground is the St. Luke's Hospital project
vvhich is under construction. That is the Interstate 84/Eagle Road Interchange which would
be the northeast quadrant the Bews property is in green, the light brown property is
Meridian City Council
May 16, 1995
Page 2
included in the annexation request. That is the portion of the Interstate that abuts the
Sews property there. This is the neighborhood in general, you see a plan view here of the
Interstate Interchange, some of the residential development and rural residential that is out
in that area. The green property is all of the Bews property, the olive green color that you
see is a Farmington Estates Subdivision which was approved I think in the early 80's and
was anticipated for a residential development by Ed Sews, platted but never developed.
Then in late 1993 vvhen the City of Meridian began updating the Comprehensive Plan and
it became apparent that the City anticipated significant business type development at that
interchange area, Ed decided to vacate the Farmington Estates plat, that has been
vacated. I am going to walk you through a history from that point since the Comprehensive
Plan to tonight. In January when the City adopted the Comprehensive Plan it became
apparent that the City anticipated mixed and business uses at that interchange area. So
in May of 1994 a year ago we submitted and application for annexation for mixed planned
development zoning and then in June 14 we had a Planning and Zoning Commission
public hearing on that annexation request. The Planning and Zoning Commission decided
to table that request until November 7 of 1994 to give the City time to update the zoning
and development ordinance. At that time there was consideration for a health service zone
in that area. Then in November we got back off the table and then the Planning and Zoning
Commission decided to continue that tabling to give the City more time to amend the
zoning ordinance again looking at that health service zone issue. Then in February of
1995 we had various meetings with City officials and we received direction to go ahead
and proceed with an established zone that is already in the ordinance rather than waiting
for a future health service zone that mayor may not happen. And then include a list of
specific land uses to be processed by a conditional use permit. Very similar and same
procedure that the St. Luke's project was approved by the City. On February 17th we did
apply for C-G Commercial General zoning because the majority or the predominant land
use that we anticipate in this project would be commercial in nature, but there would be
some non-commercial uses to blend in with the mixed development objectives so we
proceeded with a conditional use permit then and identified 12 specific land uses. On
March 14th we had a public hearing with the Planning and Zoning Commission, we
identified those 12 specific uses, we have been coordinating very good I believe with St.
Luke's Hospital through this past year. Watching their project grow and develop and
anticipating development of the Sews property. They looked at the 12 uses we worked out
with them, one use was confusing to the hospital and it was the auto travel plaza. They
felt they could agree to all of the 12 uses on the Sews property as compatible to the
hospital as long as the auto travel plaza would not become a truck stop. If it was a truck
stop then they felt that specific use would not be compatible with their proposed medical
project. Then on April 11 findings of fact and conclusions of law for annexation to
commercial general with that conditional use for those 12 specific uses was approved by
your Planning and Zoning Commission and recommended onto the City Council. That
recommendation came with a list of conditions. We agree to all of the ACHD conditions,
Meridian City Council
May 16,1995
Page 3
their comments and approvals. We have had 4 different occasions to work with the
Highway District. Item B there is we agree completely with the Meridian Fire Department,
Meridian Police Department, Central District Health, Nampa Meridian Irrigation District, the
School and US West conditions that have been incorporated into the findings of fact and
conclusions of law. Now there are a few conditions we would like some clarification on to
understand how it would apply to this development. First of all in the March 10, 1995
memo from Mr. Bruce Freckleton, in his comment #2 pertaining to wells. The comment was
that any wells on the property would have to be discontinued or abandoned. There are I
believe 3 wells on the property, one is a production well, production capability well. It is
about 485 feet deep, it has been recently pump tested. It would be a very good well for a
City to develop. We are actively negotiating right now with the City of Meridian. Hopefully
the city would acquire that well or want to use that well. So we would like to clarify his
comments #2 to keep the possibility open to continue negotiating with the City if you see
it is advantageous to use that well rather than just walk away from it. Also in that same
memo there were comments from the Planning and Zoning Administrator. Comment #1
pertained to putting planned development regulations on this application. We did not apply
for planned development, we proceeded with a zone that you have now in your zoning
ordinance with a conditional use process to allow those other specific uses. So we would
thing that comment #1 would not apply. The same with comment #4 it would not apply to
this specific situation. Comment #7 asks that we coordinate with St. Luke's Hospital to
make sure they were compatible uses and we believe we have done that. We have already
accomplished that. I am stating tonight that the auto use that we listed will not be a truck
stop. That is because of the sensitivity and the partnership that we want to have and have
had with St. Luke's Hospital. Comment #8 asks that all the uses in this project be subject
to a conditional use procedure. We are asking for C-G zoning and your current ordinance
does allow 6 of the 12 uses that we are proposing to be developed right now in the C-G
zone. So the same C-G zone that you have at Meridian 1-84 Interchange for example that
same zoning is what we are applying for. We would want the same opportunity to proceed
with permitted uses at this project just like any other property owner in Meridian that has
C-G zoning. Now for other uses we definitely support and want to proceed with a
conditional use permit. Let me show you what those uses are. In the application we
identified these 12 uses as part of the Conditional Use Permit. The general retail,
commercial and professional offices the auto travel plaza which will not become a a truck
stop, the hotel suites and motel complex and down at the bottom the restaurants those are
permitted right now in your C-G zone. That is the zone we are asking for, those other uses
the retirement center, the nursing/elderly care town houses, multi family apartments, patio
home and medical services would require a conditional use permit. Those certainly should
be processed at future City Council public hearings. So in that process as the Sews project
proceeds and let's assume a restaurant is developed we would proceed on that basis
without a conditional use but come in for the site plan review through the normal permit
processing through City Hall, but the medical services or the retirement center would come
Meridian City Council
May 16,1995
Page 4
into City Hall, public hearing before the City Council with specific site plans. That is the
way we hope that it is approved by the City. We think that makes then very good balance
of uses, it keeps in character with the existing C-G zoning that we have in the community.
But those uses that are needed to be reviewed by the public with specific site plans we
definitely agree that it ought to be done by conditional use permit process. I would be
happy to answer any questions.
Kingsford: Mr. Forrey, you are aware that the Comprehensive Plan that was adopted in
I believe December of 1993 required that all that area have a conditional use permit. So
what you are proposing in that permitted area would be in violation of our Comprehensive
Plan.
Forrey: I guess it depends on how you apply that policy, you know Mayor I helped write
that and at the time we met with Citizens the example that was used to help write that
policy about conditional uses along the Interstate and I don't want to be derogatory but
there as a business property in Meridian right along the Interstate that was developed
without a conditional use permit and citizens said we don't want that kind of thing to
happen again. There is no landscaping, no screening, they are really close to the fence
along the Interstate, there should have been a set back, how do we prevent that from
happening. My response was well we should have a conditional use permit policy that
addresses that. So, now, at the time we did that I don't think anyone envisioned that would
be 6 or 7 or 8 or a 1000 feet deep away from the I nterstate. The intent Mayor was to get
uses along the Interstate under a conditional use permit process to review for citizen and
City Council and public review. I don't know how far you stretch that back. Should
something on Franklin Road be subject to Conditional Use because it is within a 1000 feet
of the Interstate, I don't know. But if that is the direction that you are taking that policy and
that is really a Council decision because the Camp Plan is a policy guide and ultimately
it comes back to the Council. If that is the feeling of the Council then I would agree with
that and Ed is here tonight and he would agree with it. If that is the way the City is going
to treat all of the properties along the Interstate that it be done by Conditional Use then the
playing field is there. If other property owners have to do that we will do it as well. It just
comes down to that Council interpretation of depth.
Kingsford: Other questions of the Council?
Corrie: Mr. Mayor, this auto travel plaza, you say it is not there now, or it is still there. I am
a little foggy on that.
Forrey: This is, in the conditional use permit, working with City staff, we came up with the
process of giving a specific list of uses that would happen at the Sews property to allow
this conditional use permit. During the public testimony at the Planning and Zoning
Meridian City Council
May 16, 1995
Page 5
Commission 8t. Luke's Hospital commented that they had no problem with all of those 12
uses except they did not understand what an auto travel plaza would be. And they said
if that is a truck stop or a fancy name for a truck stop then we are against it. We don't want
a truck stop next to the future hospital. So, I am saying tonight it will not be a truck stop
that is just a gas station a gas and go chevron it is an excellent example here in Meridian
of an auto travel plaza. Now there are some trucks that deliver fuel in there and that would
happen here as well but it would not be designed and constructed as a truck stop. It would
be designed as an auto fueling and quick gas and go type operation.
Kingsford: Other questions of Mr. Forrey? Thank you, anyone else from the public?
John McCreedy, 1275 Shoreline, Boise, was sworn by the City Attorney.
McCreedy: Mayor and members of the Counci!l am an attorney, I work for Jim Jones in
Boise and I am here tonight on behalf of 12 residents of Meridian. The Griffins, the Hines,
the Burtner's, the Hollingsworth's, the Kearne's, the Nelson's, the Clark's, the Ownby's, the
Barchi's, the Timon's, Mr. Hoalst, and Mr. Willis. I did this afternoon fax over to the Mayor
and Council a letter that I would like to have included in the official public record as
testimony of those people. I do have extra copies if anyone didn't get it. I did have a
chance the speak with Wayne this afternoon a little and kind of gave him an outline of what
our concerns were at this point.
Kingsford: You are speaking of Wayne Crookston?
McCreedy: Wayne Forrey, surprise attack on this, the bottom line as I understand it is the
Montvue Residential Subdivision is located essentially adjacent to the prbposed
development did not have notice other than by newspaper notice of this development
application. The majority of them really haven't had an opportunity to look at the project
or to come in here and testify. Now I understand that the City of Meridian complied with the
300 foot notice but I kind of question whether that is adequate in this case. I think the City
does have the authority to expand those notice requirements and that is going to be one
of the issues we would like to take up tonight. Although technically the notice requirements
were complied with clearly I think the residents of the Montvue Subdivision have some
concerns and that they are going to be affected by this proposed development. There is
some access issues that clearly affect them, there will be some noise issues, general land
use, fundamental land use issues that will affect them. They all have water well, or the
majority of them do that may be impacted. Public services, you have had a
recommendation from P & Z that you get a fire department in the area. All those issues will
in fact affect the Montvue Residents. I was contacted for the first time last night by my
secretary who indicated that they really didn't have an understanding of what was going
on. She asked me to come and speak tonight and I told I would do that provided that she
Meridian City Council
May 16,1995
Page 6
got me enough sponsors to play in a golf marathon up in Terrace Lakes in a few weeks.
So that is how I got hooked into it. We would first off like to ask the Council to consider
a formal deferral of this to the June 6th City Council hearing. The reason is I think the
record is pretty clear that there was not actual notice to those (inaudible). I have had a
chance to talk to a few of them. They do have some serious concerns, Wayne Forrey and
I agreed this afternoon that it would be good to get those 2 groups together and try to
address some of those concerns. If in fact a deferral is not in order then we would ask that
you deny the conditional use permit application and the rezone. We have several fairly
good legal and factual reasons for that denial. One, I think the folks in Montvue need an
opportunity to comment on a specific plan, a specific, comprehensive, single, formal
development plan for the proposed area. That includes the appropriate studies, the traffic
studies the environmental studies. From what I understand from Mr. Forrey's presentation
he would prefer more of a piece meal approach to the approval and we think that is
contrary to the Comprehensive Plan and it is pretty much contrary to due process where
citizens have an opportunity to take a good hard look at a formal, clear, concise,
sufficiently detailed proposal that is going to affect their property rights. So we think that
is the better course to go. The findings of fact and conclusions of law of the Commission,
I commend them they are fairly exhaustive and they do a pretty good job of setting forth
the issues. I think it is clear that under the Meridian Comprehensive Plan that this area is
certainly considered planned unit development material and that is what should be done.
We'd ask that there be a couple of modifications to those findings of fact and conclusions.
You have clearly got any number of agencies that expressed a lot of concerns with the
project, IDEQ, the Division of Environmental Equality, ACHD, the traffic study, the St.
Luke's plan that is out there. There is a lot of material for these residents to have an
opportunity to look at to ensure that their rights are protected. We'd ask that you wrap all
of those basic conditions up into one clear, concise environmental study that is to be filed
with the City and made available to the residents that they have an opportunity to look at
it rather than 7 or 8 different filed studies that come in at different times. Provide a time
line for the submission of that study so that these residents can understand how it is going
to affect their property. Second we would ask that you consider imposing design review
along with public hearing with the design review on the project. We think that is clearly
within your authority and it would certainly help go a long ways toward providing a forum
for the citizens and the developer to get together and decide what looks best for that area.
Third, I would point out to you a decision that I did participate in the Judge Bail issue and
it regards how you process development agreements. The basic issue is do you approve
the use first and then take a look at the development agreement or do you look at the
proposed use and the development agreement at the same time and approve or deny both
of them together essentially in tandem. Judge Bail looked at it and this is of course the
Boise zoning ordinance not the Meridian zoning ordinance and concluded that there the
language was pretty clear and I have provided a copy of her decision. That if you are
going to require a development agreement don't approve the change in the rezone first,
Meridian City Council
May 16,1995
Page 7
hold up on the rezone, don't enter findings and conclusions approving it because that
would be premature but take a hard look at the development agreement. Make sure it
does in fact meet the terms and conditions of the Comprehensive Plan and then if it does
grant the rezone and if it doesn't deny it. Now I do not that in the Meridian ordinance you
do have a provision that allows you to pass rules and regulations on how you are going
to create and require development agreements. I don't know that those rules and
regulations are out there yet but this is probably one of the first opportunities to define how
you are going to do that process. I think Judge Bail's reasoning is the better policy and that
is give the citizens an opportunity to look at one Comprehensive Plan for development for
the parcel at one public hearing and that hasn't occurred yet. We think that is the better
approach to doing it. It is fundamentally a due process issue, I note that the developer
says tonight that they did not apply for a planned unit development but I think you clearly
have the authority to require one. It seems to be mandated under your Comprehensive
Plan. If you are going to approve 6 uses and then leave 6 uses subject to conditional use
permit you have to kind of wonder what the purpose of having those additional public
hearings might be. There is definitely going to be infrastructure and other matters in place
to accommodate the first six uses that should be commented on first before those uses go
into affect. We don't think the (inaudible) is going to serve the residents, they should have
a opportunity to comment on one project at one time. The Planning and Zoning
Commission did not recommend further public hearings on the development agreement
or on any final development plan. We would specifically ask that notice be provided to and
we can provide you a list of the residents who are interested to the people in the Montvue
Subdivision that are clearly going to be affected and that there be additional public
hearings on the development agreement and the final development plan before any
development goes forward. That is the testimony that I have and I thank you.
Kingsford: Thank you, any questions?
Crookston: Mr. McCreedy, did I understand you to say that you do feel the City met the
notice requirements within the 300 feet?
McCreedy: I haven't personally examined the mailing of it but I do note that in the findings
of fact and conclusions of law it has stated that they did meet the 300 foot notice
requirement. I did look at the mailing list, I haven't gone out and personally measured
whether there are people within the 300 foot area. It appears that they met it in order to
definitely state it under oath I would have to do some more work (inaudible). I do think that
300 foot requirement should be expanded particularly for planned unit developments when
there are subdivisions that are going to be affected.
Kingsford: I would like to ask, I wasn't clear, how does this development affect people's
wells there? I don't understand that logic.
Meridian City Council
May 16, 1995
Page 8
McCreedy: Well, I do note that from talking with a couple of the residents that when other
subdivisions were put in around them and wells sunk that they did notice a decrease in
their pressure. Now as this one is going to be hooked up to City sewer and water that may
not be an issue. But there are certainly some waterways in the area, the recommendation
is that they be tiled and lined, but again that is an issue to be looked at.
Kingsford: Thank you
Gary Fletcher, St. Lukes Regional Medical Center, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Fletcher: I apologize for not getting this over to you earlier Mayor and members of the
Council but I will briefly go through it and you will have an opportunity to look at it later and
1 would be glad to get copies to anybody who might like to have those. I am appearing to
make comment on the applications before the City Council for annexation and conditional
use for the E.L Bews property. As you all know St. Luke's has been working for more than
a year now preparing to begin the St. Luke's West Ambulatory Care Center now underway
at Eagle Road an 1-84. In the course of this preparation I think many will testify that we
have assumed a leadership role in working with the City on utility services which facilitated
access for other property owners. On thing 1 want to make clear this evening we are not
here to oppose development in any respect, we don't think it is up to 81. Luke's to dictate
or to have a predominant role in decisions that are made relative to the development of
this area. Rather it is responsibility of the Planning and Zoning Commission and the City
Council and the neighbors and developers and we would hope to playa substantial role
in that process and participate to the extent that it is beneficial to the area but also
hopefully beneficial to the patients that we are going to serve here in Meridian at St. Luke's
West. The concern 1 think that brings us here this evening is that over the past few weeks
there have been discussions relative to traffic circulation and roadways within the area
bounded by Eagle Road, 1-84, Franklin and Cloverdale. I believe you received a letter that
you hopefully you have seen dated May 3rd from Deborah Tullis and Thomas Webb
relative to some of these discussions which have gone on. We want to make it clear this
evening that we were not asked and have not participated in any of these discussions
much to our chagrin. In our view clearly there has not been adequate study done to
support any action to traffic circulation or public roadways in this area. We would
respectfully request that the City Council not take any action that might establish or even
project at this point public roadways in this area at this juncture. I need to tell you that we
have commissioned ourself preliminary traffic studies that we are willing to make available
to the City and any others that might wish to see them based on our understanding of the
developments that would occur at the St. Luke's site as well as the developments east of
there to Cloverdale. These studies suggest at this preliminary stage that all 3
developments namely the St. Luke's development, Mr. Bews's and the Tullisffhomas
development could not be adequately served by a public access through St. Luke's
Meridian City Council
May 16,1995
Page 9
property for that matter by the existing Franklin Road and Eagle Road and the
intersections that may be planned or might be envisioned in these areas. Our opinion
based on these studies is that these developments frankly could not be completed in
totality as they are being proposed and you may not have seen anything relative to the
TullislThomas development. We just received a copy of that today, but our judgement is
that none of those developments could be completed in their totality with the current road
system or frankly with a major road through the St. Luke's property. So, all of us would be
compromised as it relates to access ingress and egress at least as it currently appears.
S1. Luke's purchased the property at 1-84 and Eagle Road to develop a medical campus
and it was our intent to maximize the use of that property over time. In our judgement any
significant roadway through the campus could seriously compromise future development
along with access to these medical facilities by patients and ambulances. After obtaining
the necessary approvals we began construction early this year before any other
annexation or conditional use applications were heard. It is our opinion that St. Luke's
should not now be conditioned by action on applications currently under consideration. I
think in summary we would ask that no action be taken to establish or imply roadways at
this point until the implications of that are studied and considered so that the area can be
developed in an orderly and planned way. So again we are not here to particularly oppose
anything or support anything we are here to express concerns relative to what we envision
to be major traffic circulation and roadway problems in this area. We do not want a chain
of events in terms of any approvals to dictate what might end up being done relative to
traffic circulation and roadways. Rather what we are asking for is a deferral on any action
that relates to traffic circulation and roadways so that there could be an opportunity for the
City and neighbors and ourselves and others to participate in whatever process may be
necessary to determine what is best for the entire area for the future based on what is
envisioned in terms of developments. Thank you very much Mayor and members of the
Council, I would be glad to respond to any questions that you might have.
Morrow: Mr. Fletcher, your original concept for the St. Luke's Campus was one of a closed
self sufficient single site and not dependant upon surrounding developments to support
your facility?
Fletcher: That is correct.
Morrow: One comment, its S1. Luke's Meridian and then Boise.
Fletcher: I apologize, I will know better next time.
Kingsford: Any other questions for Mr. Fletcher? Thank you Gary, anyone else from the
public?
Meridian City Council
May 16, 1995
Page 10
Forrest Kearns, 230 Southwest Montvue, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Kearns: I just have a couple of comments. One, we, Mr. Fletcher came and talked to all
of us last year and we understood that their plan was closed campus so to speak, low
traffic impact area. And now we have been advised that they wish to put a road across
here through St. Luke's which is certainly within 300 feet of the Montvue Subdivision. I am
a licensed land surveyor, I can tell you this is a 1/2 mile, this is a 1/4 mile and this is 330
feet, this is Holloway's property. While that is not 300 feet per say I agree with the Attorney
that is helping us that it is probably reasonable to assume that we would like to know what
is going on. Our major concern is a roadway through here which would definitely affect us.
And also as a surveyor I have been involved in water studies and water generally follows
ground water will generally follow and I can't testify totally to that but it will generally follow
your above ground water courses. This is a water course here so this will affect and
everyone of us over here has our own well. So it would affect our water.
Kingsford: But only if there were wells put there, if I am reading the concerns correctly.
Kearns: Also, on the roadway, it was my understanding that the major reason for putting
the road in there was because there is not that they needed 2 accesses. That is 1320 feet
less maybe 100 feet where Bear's property is there. That is plenty wide enough for 2
accesses in off of Franklin plus the plan that we saw indicated a connection with I don't
know whose subdivision is over here, but it indicated a road coming through this area too
into that. I guess it came from over in here somewhere and out into that other one is
better, but it went over in along Franklin over towards Cloverdale and gained another
access in that area. That is alii have to say, any questions?
Morrow: I have a question, I am confused about this well issue. Typically the wells in your
subdivision would be 90 to 120 feet deep and these projects would be served by City water
which are generally 450 to 750 deep not even in the same strata. They would be required
to have pressurized irrigation which would take advantage of surface water as provided
by Nampa Meridian and so I don't see where they would be any issue at all here that
relates to individual domestic wells within the subdivision which you live. What is the
point with respect to the wells?
Kearns: I guess our major concern is that the development will get into that strata and
affect our water. We feel that there should be a comprehensive study done as to the effect
on our water and also the waste water and that sort of thing.
Morrow: Waste water meaning?
Kearns: Surface run off from the streets, how will that be handled, will that affect us?
Meridian City Council
May 16,1995
Page 11
Kingsford: Those are things that would have to be covered, typically they are retained on
site and so on, but it is a valid concern. Any other questions of the Council? Anyone else
from the public?
Gerald Rylf, 360 Montvue Drive, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Rylf: Mayor Kingsford, gentlemen of the Council, I would like to start off my little
presentation by asking everybody in Montvue Drive to please stand up. Now this is a
majority portion of the people that live on Montvue Drive. When they say our concern is
the road that has been proposed immediately adjacent to our subdivision and how it would
affect everyone. We have gone to the P & Z notes, minutes and we have selected
paragraphs which we feel will directly affect our subdivision. I will just briefly note these,
on page 8, paragraph 4 talks about any development be harmonious with the general
vicinity. Now since our area has been one of low development and the people that are
attempting to develop the area around us are talking about an extremely high density
development, they are talking about apartments, town houses and so forth. Also, in
paragraph 4D it deals with having a non-hazardous situation or one that is disturbing. A
road immediately adjacent to Montvue Drive that could be possibly feed from a road
coming from Franklin could and probably would be used as a short cut for people trying
to avoid the existing Eagle Road, Franklin Road intersection trying to get to 1-84 and the
reverse coming from 1-84 and then going back up. If a road was put through the property
by St. Luke's. On paragraph 4F is says that any development would be non-detrimental
to the economic welfare of the community and we find that hard to believe in that if our tax
base would be suddenly increased because of a forced annexation by Meridian which will
surround us maybe gentlemen we will be voters for Meridian. And we question who is
going to pay for the fire department and where would it physically be located on the St.
Luke's property. Paragraph 4G deals with excessive production of traffic or noise. Once
again we consider that traffic possibly coming from Franklin and escaping out through a
road through the 81. Luke's property onto Eagle Road would be extremely noisy.
Paragraph 41 we talk about no destruction of natural or scenic features. It is already stated
that if the road would go through that the proposed jogging paths and vegetation that
would be planted by 81. Luke's would have to be given up and have to be stopped. We
submit that the BewslTullis people could select alternate routes for roads if they need to
be the property including going south over the freeway if they have to or going toward
Cloverdale and selecting that instead of trying to load down Eagle Road. Are we going to
have restaurant signs next to the hospital saying this road to Jolly Back hamburgers etc.
Now, if the property immediately adjacent to the subdivision which belongs to a man
named Holloway, he has it up for sale now and is expecting somebody to come and buy
his property. A road could also be placed on the Holloway property intersecting any road
that would be through St. Luke's. Thereby increasing the traffic, we would request that not
only a traffic study but environmental study be taken into consideration by the City Council
Meridian City Council
May 16, 1995
Page 12
before approving anything. May I answer a question about the water at this time for Mr.
Morrow. As you know sir, anytime agricultural land is no longer being irrigated that it does
help in feed the aquifer an the aquifer is getting less and less. Once again here we have
agricultural land being promoted into something where they will take from the aquifer but
they will put nothing back. The people in the subdivision are concerned about their water,
we do not have City water in the subdivision. We are all on wells and have septic systems.
That is aliI have, thank you very much.
Kingsford: Any questions for Gerald? Thank you
Richard Willis, 3555 Montvue Drive, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Willis: Mr. Mayor and Council I live on Montvue Drive and I would like to say when Mr.
Bew's representative made his proposal he stated that his proposal was in accordance
with Sf. Luke's master plan. I recall attending a meeting when Sf. Luke's presented their
master plan as did most of Montvue. I don't believe anyone protested the plan that Sf.
Luke's presented. They were very considerate of all of the neighbors in Montvue and they
took our views into account when they developed their plan. Quite frankly I don't remember
seeing anything on that plan of an access road as Mr. Bews is showing on his plan. Now,
I live on Montvue so I know what the traffic is on Eagle, you don't have to be a traffic
engineer or do any studies to walk out on Eagle Road at a busy time of the day and you
will see traffic (End of Tape) because there is not a whole lot of development on southeast
Eagle. We understand that is about to change and we have heard stories about when that
development goes in over there they are talking about 24,000 cars a day. Where are those
24,000 cars going? A good number of them are going to come down Eagle and we also
know that Eagle is proposed to be 4 lanes all the way to Eagle and will eventually be the
major north/south access to the northern part of the state. If you go out there and look now
if you put a light at S1. Luke's the current traffic that stops at Franklin will back up from that
light up to your freeway off ramp. You start dumping 24,000 more cars or however many
there are shortly you are going to have the same situation that Boise had a Cole and
Overland. Traffic will be out onto your freeway. Now, the last point I would like to make
is we have heard testimony here from Sf. Luke's stating that they don't want that road, now
when the S1. Luke's property was originally approved I would like you to recall back there
was a lady that appeared before the Council who was protesting a zoning change of her
neighbor along Franklin Road. She had an attorney represent her who made a very good
presentation but at the end of the presentation Mr. Morrow who I recall specifically asked
this lady's attorney if his client was willing to purchase her neighbors property. And she
said no and Mr. Morrow made the most profound statement that was made that night when
he stated than what gives you the right, your client's right to tell that neighbor what they
can do with their property. That is exactly what Mr. Bew's representative is telling S1.
Luke's is that they are going to have to give them access. And we have heard testimony
Meridian City Council
May 16,1995
Page 13
that they do not want that. Now you stated you have to treat all citizens equally and I
stand behind that 100%. So if the statement was true that night it is true this night as well.
Thank you.
Kingsford: Any questions for Mr. Willis?
Morrow: My only comment is that I stand by the statement.
Ed Burtner, 285 Montvue Drive, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Burtner: I just wanted to add one comment on the wells, I think the other things have been
pretty well expressed already. Mel Southerland who also lives on Montvue Drive was not
able to be here tonight, he asked me to express and I will say because I know this to be
true. The wells during the, a couple of years ago when we had the realtor out they started
that well up on the property, you will have to excuse me I have a problem with my throat.
They started that well on a pump 24 hours a day and everybody here in the subdivision
will know this. At that time Mel Southerland's well dropped to the point where he could not
get water out of the bottom of it. Guss Hine who is not here tonight his has dropped, mine
has dropped considerably over the time since we moved there. There must be some sort
of connection between that big well and the water we get. I think it is something that
should be considered. If we are going to be using our wells we have to know that we are
going to have water. That is all I have to say.
Kingsford: Thank you Ed
Glen Griffith, 3295 North Montvue Drive, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Griffith: All my neighbors have adequately addressed most of our concerns. I think there
is one other issue that for us who have purchased property in this subdivision within the
last couple of years it hasn't been addressed and that is if the City Council's decision is
to go ahead and approve this and their solution for our water situation is to force us to sign
onto the City water that is a considerable financial undertaking. Some of us it is going to
be a hardship. I purchased this property me and my wife with the knowledge that we had
water. If we kept our well up that was the way it would stay. Now, I didn't fathom being in
the City this quickly. I think it is an issue that ought to be brought up.
Robin Hollingsworth, 3300 North Montvue Drive, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Hollingsworth: In listening to the testimony this evening by Mr. Forrey, he spoke a lot of
how well he has worked with St. Luke's Hospital and that may well be but I think that he
did not take the residents of our subdivision into consideration. As has been stated tonight
Meridian City Council
May 16, 1995
Page 14
we knew what the plan was for St. Luke's Hospital there was not plan for an access road.
They were going to put up a beautiful buffering of landscaping, there was going to be a
jogging path for residents of not only our subdivision but also of the Greenhill Estates
across the street so that it could be accessible to them also. That will be eliminated by this
plan. Also, as far as Eagle Road goes and the Eagle Road congestion we not only have
Eagle Road but we also have two lateral roads, Overland and Franklin. They are 2 way
roads at this time, 2 lanes. Last week I was in my yard and my friend was coming out of
Springwood Drive which is directly across from Montvue Drive. For curiosity sake because
we have been having so much trouble and this mind you was at 7:30 in the evening, I
glanced at my watch and it took her 8 minutes and that was to get across to the median.
And then to ease her way into oncoming traffic, that is not even during rush hour. As Mr.
Willis stated daily traffic is backed up past Montvue Drive, well towards where the access
to St. Luke's and where this access, the access road that is proposed by Forrey will be
located. At this time it is just absolutely impossible. I also agree with Mr. Fletcher, I do
believe that this is a piece meal. When you are a resident in a subdivision and you do not
have privy to all of the paperwork and to tell you the truth we do not want to make it a full
time job to read the little Meridian newspaper, the Idaho Statesman, listen to public
television wherever it is that they place these notices we do not for the next year and a half
to the two years want to make it a full time occupation to keep up with what is going to be
coming in our backyard. I feel that a plan needs to be submitted in its entirety and that we
will be able to see exactly what Mr. Bews is going to do as far as noise reduction and also
I would say lighting. Especially if we have an access road so that there will not be
anything that is intrusive on our neighborhood. So I would like to see the full plan. I think
that we all know that growth is inevitable and that especially this intersection is very much
desirable. We understand that but we would also hope that we could work with existing
residents. That our way of life won't be so disturbed that we won't be able to sell our
homes because we are an island. I just feel that we could do this in such a fashion that
it could also be harmonious with the residents in Montvue Subdivision.
Kingsford: Thank you
Tresha Griffith, 3295 North Montvue, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Griffith: What I wanted to talk about was traffic. Since there is so much cars going on
Eagle Road and one winter when it was really bad the cars were backed up they thought
our subdivision was a short cut so we had about 80 cars in just a few minutes pulling in
and turning around and finding out it was a dead end. You should have seen the mess
that it caused. So that is why I think we need traffic studies and other studies to take a
look at and see what kind of impact this will have on us. Also, every year we have a pair
of ducks that return to our land and I would hate to see this wild life habitat disappear
because of the congestion of traffic and noise and other things that might prevent them
Meridian City Council
May 16,1995
Page 15
from returning back. When I step out into my back yard I feel like it is a park because I
enjoy seeing them walking around and hoping that they nest around there. Seeing that the
neighbors have their animals and it is an agricultural subdivision I think it is really good for
the kids to see this wildlife and how it is to live in a quiet subdivision. It is one of the older
subdivisions in the city. I thin we need to preserve a lot of the older stuff instead of trying
to modernize and push everybody out. I think it is my opinion that I would like to see a
traffic study, another study so we could look at and make some comments and also have
a public hearing so we express some other concerns. Thanks
Kingsford: Thank you
Gary Fors, 843 Lilac, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Fors: This isn't pertaining to anything going on tonight I just wanted to let all the Council
members know that we have had a meeting at 4:00 tomorrow in City Hall if you haven't
been informed on it. Thank you
Kingsford: Anyone else from the public? Anyone else first please, let's take one shot at
everybody if we could?
Kearns: (Inaudible) about the road and the traffic being backed up here at the Eagle
Intersection. This land is this has been widened (inaudible) which makes a considerable
difference in the amount of traffic backed up (inaudible).
Kingsford: Thank you
Mike Littlefield, 325 Montvue Drive, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Littlefield: I would like to speak about the most important thing and as a resident of
Montvue Park Subdivision those of us who have families who have small children those
of us who don't have children or are generally retired I would like to speak of safety. We
have addressed lightly a fire department, I don't believe we have discussed any, we
discussed traffic problems but I don't think we discussed basically a transient community
which would be moving in adjacent to our property. We have very nice homes, we live in
a very nice neighborhood, it has an excellent neighborhood watch. With apartment
complexes moving in and people traveling basically though our neighborhood and through
our backyards we have not discussed any safety issues. We have discussed any crime
issues, we haven't discussed any of those things. I think all of those things need to be
addressed. The road that we have now, basically we had a community meeting roughly
eight or nine months ago where we decided as a neighborhood we would put up some
lights. We knew we were going to have these problems but we were hoping we were
Meridian City Council
May 16, 1995
Page 16
going to go on overkill by putting up these street lights. Now that we have you can see
basically it is one road in, it make a little turn, it is tear dropped shaped and goes back out.
We have children that like to ride their bikes, we have people that like to take walks around
the neighborhood, we have horses, we have people that walk around through that
neighborhood. Their safety is now becoming a concern where we all moved out into that
area to avoid safety concerns. We have animals, we have children, and those are my
concerns. I believe those are probably concerns of everybody in this room. I think they
need to be addressed as well.
Kingsford: Thank you, anyone else? Seeing none I will close the public hearing, Council
members. It is clear we have received additional testimony is that right Counselor?
Crookston; That is correct.
Tolsma: (Inaudible)
Yerrington: Second
Kingsford: Moved by Ron, second by Max to have the City Attorney prepare new findings
of fact and conclusions of law on the annexation and zoning to C-G for Ed Bews, all those
in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
(Inaudible)
Kingsford: I would have taken that if I hadn't closed the public hearing, now we are going
to have new findings. Go ahead
Crookston: You need to re-open the hearing.
Kingsford: Re-open the public hearing, you know what you are going to create, we are
going to go full round again.
Forrey: No, I think it is solutions, I have been taking notes and listening to citizens and
here are some things to think about in terms of your findings of fact and for good
development here. First of all if the Council policy in terms of that one Comprehensive
Plan policy about Conditional Uses along the Interstate if that is the procedure the Council
is going to follow then I want you to know that Ed Bews does not have a problem with that.
We stated that at the Planning and Zoning public hearing and are re-iterating that tonight
asking Council to make that determination of how to (inaudible) that policy. Secondly, Ada
Meridian City Council
May 16,1995
Page 17
County Highway District has required a traffic study of the Bews property and the St.
Luke's property and they have asked to coordinate both of those properties together work
with the Highway District, we are doing that. St. Luke's is a little ahead of us they started
the traffic study and we are starting our with them. ACHD controls the layout of roads
here. The Highway District on four separate occasions has asked that there be a traffic
connector between the Sews property and the S1. Luke's property. If the Highway District
changes that the policies we have to follow. One of the access points that has been
proposed would be on the north side of the S1. Luke's site. I think a good way to mitigate
the concerns that people have here is to move that access road and maybe move it down
close to the Interstate which is another concept we have explored. At one time we
anticipated 2 traffic roads between the 2 sites ACHD has indicated only one is necessary.
It does not have to be on the north side and I think one of the things I would like to do with
the homeowners out there in Montvue Subdivision and the Highway District and St. Luke's
is look at moving that south and meetings we have had with St. Luke's Hospital they
recognize they have to have some traffic access. We are going to have hotel, motel,
restaurants, those services are critical to the hospital and for the people that will use that
facility in Meridian. So there has to be some type of traffic access, maybe not a major road
and I agree with that. We have got to do some good planning here with the highway district
and with the citizens and we will do that. If the City acquires the Sews well and if there is
a relationship between those water strata than the City has options, mainly not use it, if
there is a problem we certainly want to protect your water or deepen it to get into a totally
different strata, maybe we could go down to 700 feet instead of 485 to protect the water
that is there. I sympathize with that and I hope that helps. Just a commitment that we will
continue to work and help and try and make this a good project that we can all be proud
of and not hurt Montvue Subdivision.
Kingsford: Well certainly Mr. Forrey that is something that you need to move posthaste
on because it is my understanding that utilities are already being planned or extended in
that northern area. So that would need to be accommodated, we don't want to cut up the
S1. Luke's property for them.
Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I think Mr. Forrey what I would like to see speaking for myself is that
we are talking of about, there was a letter here from Thomas Tullis folk asking for more
input with respect to traffic circulation. Mr. Fletcher testified to S1. Luke's concern, I think
that what I would like to see is as a City Councilman is these things structured put into
format and brought before the City Council.
Forrey: The traffic study?
Morrow: I want to see what the ultimate plan for those properties is and how it relates to
other plans. I think the thing is that the danger is that these things get put together
Meridian City Council
May 16, 1995
Page 18
some'Nhat haphazard infringe on other properties own plans and what I would like to see
and I think it is a responsibility of the Council to see those plans and either pass on them
favorably or unfavorably. But have on the public record the concurrence of Mr. Fletcher
and St. Luke's, the concurrence of the ThomaslTullis properties, and the ones affected.
I think those people ought to speak for themselves and say yes we are satisfied with this
plan or no we are not satisfied with this plan. I think that should be done.
Forrey: In that arrangement then probably the best way to approach it would be that the
uses as it is stated in the current findings of fact that the uses would be subject to
conditional use permit and review by City Council. I believe that would address that
concern.
Morrow: Wett I think there are some other issues there also.
Corrie: Mr. Mayor, also Wayne, the 3 areas of roads, the top one which is commercial
general, does that go into Montvue?
Forrey: No, it goes into the Hottoway Tree Service property. That also was a requirement
of the Ada County Highway District, they did not want a connection into the Montvue, it
was a stub street into the Holloway property.
Corrie: Then the other 2 is it says H20 the water line and the bottom one is below the
hospital complex.
Forrey: That is correct?
Corrie: And those would go out to Eagle Road am I correct on that or (inaudible) in their
parking lot?
Forrey: No that is very conceptual and it is not meant to imply anything on the St. Luke's
property. This was just exploring ideas with the highway district. At one time there was a
concept of 2 connectors to St. Luke's but they have agreed now that it should be one and
that has not been accurately located. Whether it is on the north side or the south side or
the middle that is something the traffic study has to decide.
Kingsford: Any other questions or comments? Mr. Morrow?
Morrow: I have a comment and I think my personal preference would be to table pending
these studies. Now we are talking about maybe concepts obviously some of the testimony
we have had tonight including myself would like to see something more than concepts
Wayne. So I think in fairness to us to the City Council and to our staff and to our citizens
Meridian City Council
May 16, 1995
Page 19
I think that I would like to see some of these things ironed out before we go to findings so
I would like to see it tabled until we can get more definitive information. That is a comment
on my part.
Kingsford: Any other questions first for Wayne? I did re-open the public hearing ma'am
you are welcome to come and speak.
Mary Edmondson, 3360 North Montvue, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Edmondson: When Mr. Van Auker was developing north of Franklin we received 3 letters
concerning various stages and so forth. We just got a round about gossip down the street
that all of this development was planned and they were putting the first bricks in. I think
that we should have a right to request of the City Council that they notify of these
proceedings as they go along. That is alii have to say.
Rylf: What we failed to understand is how a person can buy a piece of property and
someone come along with a lot of juice and say they are going to put a road through when
there are alternate ways of handling the situation. Now, if Mr. Bews has his property that
does abut 1-84 it seems to me if he is in such need as access to this property for his
restaurants and so forth that he would get away from Eagle Road and heavy traffic and
trying to disturb the neighborhoods at Montvue Drive and to disrupt what St. Luke's has
for is patients, get off the dime and develop his project and pick alternate input outs and
leave Eagle Road alone. Thank you
Patricia Rylf, 360 Montvue Drive, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Rylf: It has been mentioned that Mr. Holloway's property would have a stub street. Mr.
Holloway's property abuts our property to the east, it runs right along the irrigation ditch.
St. Luke's property abuts our irrigation ditch to the north. If and when, I understand that
Mr. Holloway has an offer that he is looking at today. If and when his property is
developed and the road goes through there it can conceivably go by our back fence and
that would make our neighborhood an island. So this also impacts in that way. Thank you.
John Timons, 3460 Montvue Drive, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Timons: I would like to make a comment on roads. I don't know if anybody from the Ada
County Highway District is here but it might be a suggestion that they build a frontage road
along the freeway and then Mr. Bews can have access off of that into his property. They
can build a lot of businesses along that frontage road which would be better I think even
for his development. That is just a suggestion. Then I have another concern, it is about
your sewer district, your water and sewer facilities out at Ten Mile. I think it is just your
Meridian City Council
May 16,1995
Page 20
sewer, do you have the current capabilities of handling, are you going to build something
else? Because my concern is that I grew up on Duck Alley on Linder Road and my family
still has property there and there is a sewer line that runs down to the River. At times it is
hard to handle all of that development out west of Meridian. I have seen raw sewage run
into that river in years past. I wonder if this is going to add to that?
Kingsford: We have never had raw sewage from our plant into the River.
Timons: From Ten Mile?
Kingsford: Not from Ten Mile, what that is, the Boise River outfall and what happens is if
Ten Mile Drain is too low then we are required by EPA to pump that affluent that has been
treated into the Boise River.
Timons: So you are saying it is treated?
Kingsford: It is treated yes, it use to be treated with chlorine now it goes through and Ultra
Violet Basin.
Timons: I should have taken pictures.
Kingsford: We have never had a violation in our treatment plant so I don't think you saw
raw sewage come from our plant.
Timons: Well, that alleviates my concerns. Thank you
Kingsford: Thank you, I wish somebody from the Highway District was here I would like
to know what their feeling is with regard to, oh Karen you are here, get up here and tell us
what the Highway District thinks about frontage roads.
Gallagher: I was prepared to speak on the Conditional Use, I can wait or repeat it then
whatever you would like.
Kingsford: I think about everyone has integrated their thoughts both ways so why don't
you.
Karen Gallagher, ACHD, 318 E. 37th, Garden City, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Gallagher: As a representative of the Highway District I am here tonight to request that
no approval be given to this conditional use/annexation. I am not sure how you are going
to proceed with it until a traffic study has been submitted and we have had a chance to
Meridian City Council
May 16, 1995
Page 21
review it. As stated in the report from the District the plan submitted to the district are of
a conceptual nature only and lacks sufficient traffic data and detail design information
needed for a thorough staff review. Therefore their staff report will be a conceptual review
only, those are the comments you have received from us. If your approval was to be
conceptual we would like to incorporate in the traffic. Or either way the traffic study at this
point we have no information to do any detailed analysis to even decide. Just from what
the applicant has told us we believe at this point that 2 accesses to Franklin, one to
Franklin and one to Eagle Road would be necessary for the circulation in this area. As far
as the frontage road work, we would have some concerns. One of which in dealing with
St. Luke's is that they wanted to keep their campus fairly secure and not divide it.
Therefore the first access you can have off of Eagle Road is where their signal is located
it is very close to that vicinity. You couldn't put a frontage road south of that, so to put a
frontage road in you would need to back up to the east off of Eagle Road in order to have
stacking and then pull the frontage road through either the St. Luke's Campus and down
or if you wanted to leave St. Luke's intact it would have to go all the way over to the shared
property line and then come south and then it would be a frontage road only on the Bew's
property possibly extending over to the Tullis property. I don't know if that is what you had
in mind. Usually a frontage road would encompass both properties, so I would see that as
a problem just from the interactions and conversations I have had with 81. Luke's. I would
like to also address the letter that we did receive from Thomas and Tullis that their
concept, we do support having the connections at a minimum 2 between the Bews property
and the Tullis property. The alignment that they drew up would continue the St. Luke's
road straight through to the Tullis. And we would have concerns with a road going that far
in that linear direction. We do support the connection more similar to what has been
proposed at this point on the Sews conceptual outline. 80 again we would prefer or
request that no approval be granted until we see some detailed information and a traffic
study to square footage and type of development that is taking place on this property.
Tolsma: Would Ada County Highway District have a great problem with isolating St. Luke's
I mean just the entrance into their campus only and then putting Bews property with 2
accesses off of Franklin Road along with the Tullis property off of Franklin Road. I have
a hard time isolating or making hospital parking lots thoroughfares. I worked for the
paramedics for several years and the fire department and getting into St. AI's and out of
St. AI's without having a through street there is exceptional and also 81. Luke's downtown.
I would really like to see them have a closed campus if it is anyway possible to run their
access off of Franklin Road. The hospital is not a thoroughfare to a subdivision or a
grocery store or restaurants or gas stations or whatever.
Gallagher: From our understanding it was to be a mixed use in this area and we also
understood that the development that was proposed was to be in direct correlation to the
people using the St. Luke's campus. Therefore we were in support of a connection of
Meridian City Council
May 16, 1995
Page 22
some sort. We are having problems at this point with St. AI's that connections with the
development that takes place to the west of the current campus that a connection would
be needed there or that they would prefer to have a connection there so that people can
flow. With the rate that they are growing the connections would be needed. So, in that line
of thinking of development a connection of some sort would be positive we believe for the
traffic circulation. Possibly the format, like I said we don't know the numbers that are going
to be generated and just solely based on those it maybe possible or from our perspective
that both connections one to Eagle and one to Franklin would work best for circulation.
If that is not true and those numbers turn out differently like I said we would definitely still
support some sort of connection maybe not such a main road as it drawn now.
Morrow: Question, is this case Karen where St. Luke's has been completely approved is
not St. Luke's in the driver seat whether there is a connection or not done? I don't know
how as we as a City or ACHD could require St. Luke's to give up property to adjoining
properties no matter how the numbers come out. If 81. Luke's doesn't want to be connected
to anybody else and wants a closed campus then is that not the way it will be?
Gallagher: We discussed it with them the status of this road and it was thrown out on the
table that it could possibly be a public road in the future and they would build it. At this
point they were open and willing to build it to a public road standpoint at this point so that
it could be acquired by the Ada County Highway District in the future. Understanding that
connection would go to the property to the east.
Morrow: That is a decision that they will make.
Gallagher: I am not sure and I didn't bring that file with me I apologize, I can find that
information out on exactly how it is detailed or possibly the representative here can recall
better than I can. I felt that it was fairly, it was an understanding that there wouldn't be a
road block to it being public in the future.
Kingsford: I believe my discussions with Mr. Fletcher indicated that they want to be a part
of that certainly. I don't want to speak for you, you are still here and the public hearing is
still open.
Gallagher: Thank you
Jeff Hull, 190 East Bannock, Boise, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Hull: We would like to clarify a little confusion on St. Luke's being represented at ACHD.
We have not employed or sent anybody to ACHD to comment on our desire to have a
public thoroughfare through there as has been stated before this evening. I think it is very
Meridian City Council
May 16,1995
Page 23
clear that we are planning a closed campus concept and we are willing to share that with
you in the future if necessary. We. St. Luke's proper has not been to ACHD offering, we
are aware that somebody has represented that but it was nobody under our employment.
Kingsford: Thank you, anyone else? Seeing none I will close the public hearing and you
will get no rebuttle Mr. Forrey. What is the Council's pleasure?
Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I still stand by, I believe that we have called and approved findings
of fact, I would think that from my perspective I would prefer to have that withdrawn and
move for a motion to table pending resolution of some of these issues.
Kingsford: That would need to be the motion then is to withdraw the findings and then
table, 2 separate motions.
Morrow: I move that we withdraw the findings of fact and conclusions of law.
Corrie: Second
Kingsford: Moved by Walt, second by Bob to withdraw the preparations of findings of fact
and conclusions of law, all those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
Morrow: I would move that we table the E. L Bews request until further information
resolving the issues brought forward tonight are presented before us.
Crookston: You need to table to a date certain.
Kingsford: Do you have any idea on the traffic study Mr. Forrey?
Forrey: The traffic study is started and we can have that within 3 weeks. I am concerned
about meeting with the folks in Montvue Subdivision. Thirty days possibly that would give
us time to get the traffic study accelerated and share that with the folks that have testified
tonight and their neighbors and continue meetings with St. Luke's. I think in 30 days we
can bring that to a conclusion and also specific site plan on the property, more specific
almost preliminary type information.
Kingsford: Table it to the second meeting in June.
Corrie: Mr. Mayor (inaudible)
MerIdian CIty Council
May 16,1995
Page 24
Forrey: That is the schedule we have tonIght but we will accelerate that in the morning.
We will speed that traffic study up so we have time to meet with the folk and ACHD and
others.
Kingsford: Mr. Morrow would you restate your motion please?
Morrow: I would move that we table this E.L. Bews request until our second meeting in
June the date of which is June 20th.
Corrie: Second
Kingsford: Moved by Walt, second by Bob to table the Bews request until the June 20th
meeting, all those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
Kingsford: Mr. Forrey, could we have copies of all the overheads for public record please?
I appreciate everybody's comments.
ITEM #2: PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A
VARIETY OF MIXED, PLANNED BUSINESS AND RESIDENTIAL LAND USES BY E.L.
BEWS:
Kingsford: Those folks with interest in the Bews request, is there separate testimony
specific to the conditional use permit that you wish to offer before you go? It will be tabled
until that time too. Is there anyone else that would like to offer specific items to that?
Seeing none then I would entertain a motion to table that to the 20th of June as well.
Corrie: So moved
Tolsma: Second
Kingsford: Moved by Bob, second by Ron to table the Conditional Use Permit for Bews
until the second meeting in June, June 20th, all those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
ITEM #3: STEINER DEVELOPMENT: APPEAL PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION
RECOMMENDATION:
Kingsford: Who is representing Steiner?
Meridian City Council
May 16, 1995
Page 25
Bradbury: My name is Steve Bradbury I am representing the applicant Steiner
Development. We actually have 3 items on the agenda tonight, all of which I guess are
interrelated. (End of Tape) why we are here and where we are trying to go. The City has
before it Steiner's application for annexation, rezone and preliminary plat for The Lake at
Cherry Lane Subdivisions No. 5 and 6. The Planning and Zoning Commission after a
couple of public hearings approved in part and denied in part or I guess recommended for
approval in part and denial in part the annexation and rezone. That is the R-4 portion was
recommended for approval and the R-15 portion was recommended for denial. At the
same time the Planning and Zoning Commission approved in part and denied in part the
preliminary plat. That is approving the R-4 portion and denying the R-15 portion. As a
consequence you have before you a I guess a mixed bag of partial approvals and partial
denials and then some recommendations. It appeared to us that the best thing we could
do was get an appeal of that which that portion of the preliminary plat which was denied
before you so you could see the whole picture all at one time. As you know the project is
a 40 acre site located on the west side of Ten Mile road between Ustick and Cherry Lane.
It is currently zoned an RT zone a county zone and of course we are seeking annexation
and rezone to R-4 for about 171/2 acres on a portion of the property and maybe the best
thing I can do is suggest that if you look behind tab #6 in your book you will find a layout
drawing that will give you a feel for where things are. The R-4 portion of the project which
is outlined in black and consists of about 17 1/2 acres. The balance of the property is
proposed to be rezoned to an R-15 zone and that consists of 3 separate development
concepts. The R-4 portion is a total of or contemplates a total of 51 single family detached
building lots, 8,000 square foot minimum and the intent of that is that project would meet
all of the requirements of your code of the R-4 zone. This was the portion of course that
was approved or recommended for approval by the Planning and Zoning Commission.
The R-15 portion as I said is divided into 3 sections, the first part that I want to point out
to you is this part that is in this sort of purple color. What we have there is about 5 acres
and that is proposed to be developed in 25 single family detached building lots of 6,000
square foot minimum. Again, the concept there is that the building here would meet all of
the requirements of the code for an R-15 zone. The concept is simply to provide smaller
lots with higher end homes in order to provide a housing type for people who simply just
don't want to deal with the need to keep up a larger lot. Behind tab #9 in the booklet is a
fact sheet that gives you a little more detail about what is proposed for that portion of the
project. I am not going to take up a bunch of time (inaudible) detail I am certainly willing
to answer any questions. Of course behind the fact sheet is a blow up drawing of what
is proposed for that portion of the project. The second area that I wanted to talk to you
about is shown in green it would be in the southeast corner of the property. This, the
concept here what the developer has in mind is to create a housing complex for older
persons, persons aged 55 or more. The concept would anticipate 63 building lots in a mix
of single family dwelling and some 2 and some 3 family attached dwellings. In the center
portion of that area is a proposed clubhouse and rec center which would have I think it is
Meridian City Council
May 16, 1995
Page 26
about 2000 square feet with a swimming pool, kitchens, meeting room or the type of facility
Vvi1ere the residents could come and make use of, gather and have functions. Behind tab
7 again is another fact sheet that gives you more detail about what is proposed for that
project. Also behind tab 7 is again a blow up of the proposed layout and further behind
that are some drawings showing the elevations of the proposed dwelling units to be
constructed in what I call typical floor plans. These aren't intended to mean that is
precisely what every unit will look like but just to give you an idea of what is anticipated to
typical. The third area that I wanted to point out to you is Vvi1at is in this blue section or
outlined in blue and that would be in the northeast corner of the property. Behind tab 8
again there is more information about that. The concept here is to create a condominium
or town house development consisting of approximately 58 units. Of course this would all
be common maintenance of the exterior and providing this same type of open spaces and
amenities you generally expect to find in a condominium project. Now I have said a couple
of times the word concept and the reason I have said concept is because before you, you
do not have a precise development application for the proposed condominium area or for
the senior citizen complex. At one point I think it was in November the developer came
and showed you a drawing that was I guess again presented as a concept and we
continue to present it as a concept now with the expectation that if approved if the
annexation and the zone is approved then the developer would come back to you with a
separate application for a conditional use permit or perhaps if the ordinances would work
to permit a planned unit development for each of those 2 additional projects. What we are
asking for is for annexation and rezone as requested subject to the condition that the
developer bring in these more precise development plans to you at a later date. Now the
Planning and Zoning Commission and this finally gets around to why we are talking about
an appeal the Planning and Zoning recommended in part and denied in part, and denied
in part the R-15 proposal. And as I understand their concerns as expressed in their
findings and conclusions you will find behind tab 4 if you are interested is that they weren't
opposed to the concept but simply were reluctant to approve a rezone without having a
specific development proposal before them that the developer could be pinned to. The
applicant is continuing in his request to obtain an approval under those conditions with the
expectation that as a part of your approval should you choose to do so you would require
a development agreement and in that development agreement you could include whatever
conditions you felt were appropriate in order to assure that you could have sufficient
control over what might be ultimately developed in those areas so that you wouldn't just
leave in essence a blank check for the developer. Doug Campbell, the developer's
representative here and I have been talking at length what sorts of conditions you folks
might want to try and impose and we have some suggestions and we don't want to suggest
that this is an exclusive list they are just some suggestions and certainly we would be
willing to include an other sorts of conditions that might help you to have a little more
comfort with respect to the proposal. As proposed using the numbers that I just talked
about over the 40 acres there is a proposed gross density of just 5 units to the acre. One
Meridian City Council
May 16, 1995
Page 27
suggestion that we had is perhaps as a condition of approval you could require that 40
acres not exceed or development on that 40 acres in total not exceed an average of 5 units
per acre. That way you don't approve something today or think you are approving
something today and a year or two later somebody comes to you with a project that has
a much greater density than what you are thinking. Another suggestion is perhaps you can
impose some time limits with respect to when applications must be filed for these
additional projects. A suggestion that we have is perhaps you could impose a time limit
of say 6 months for the senior citizen complex and a time limit of say 2 years for the
condominium project. One thing that I haven't told you is that the developer intends to build
this project in 2 phases, the south half essentially which is south of the main access road
first. And the north half in a subsequent phase. That way imposing some time limits you
would then not have an open ended approval that would last out into the future. Another
suggestion we have is that perhaps you could condition in your approval by restricting
uses in the property to residential uses only. I realize that in an R-15 zone there are
permitted and conditional use application which might contemplate something other than
residential uses. So if you wanted to have the comfort that you are only looking at a
residential project then perhaps you could condition whatever approval you have on that.
And of course as I said we would certainly be willing to talk about and listen to any other
thoughts that you might have. The overall concept here is to provide a higher end
development that provides mixed housing types that would be governed under very strict
restrictive covenants. The development that comes to my mind which I perceive to be the
most like what is proposed here would be the river run development over in Boise and I
can only assume that you have some concept of what they have there. Basically it is a
mixed housing type with single family detached, single family attached, and some multiple
family dwellings. It probably would be helpful to give you some idea of the types of
amenities that are proposed in the project as well so you have a feel for what we are doing
there. Maybe the best way to look at it is to again pull out this layout map and I will try to
show you what we are talking about. The idea here is to put a 20 foot landscaping buffer
along Ten Mile Road here. Behind that landscaping buffer would be a 6 foot high block
wall and we have a drawing of it over here to my left which some of you may not be able
to see very well. Six foot high with a foot of wrought iron on top of it. That wall would come
along Ten Mile and then turn and come into the subdivision along the main entry access
and the same thing this way into here. The senior complex would then be fenced around
the balance of the property as with the condominium project would be fenced around the
balance of the property. There is additional landscaping there would be center dividers
in the boulevard that accesses the property these are 12 foot dividers. There would be 5
foot wide landscape parkways on either side of that main access street and internal to the
subdivision are several landscape circles which again are generally depicted on these
drawings that we have here. This is what I am talking about when I talk about the
landscape circles and some of the center divider and parkway strips would be landscaped
on the entry of the subdivision. The landscaping treatment intention is to provide again
Meridian City Council
May 16, 1995
Page 28
a top notch high quality landscape treatment throughout the subdivision. Streets would
be built to ACHD standards the idea might be to provide a security gate into the senior
citizen complex and perhaps even a security gate into the condominium town house
project. The main access road has 80 feet of right of way to accommodate all of the
landscaping. One other thing that you might be interested in and in working with the
highway district the developer agreed to dedicate a strip of land up here in the corner of
the property in order to provide for a collector status into the Englewood Subdivision to the
north. Services are City sewer and water, pressurized irrigation with concurrence of the
Nampa Meridian Irrigation District. Of course one other significant feature is that the
developer wants to dedicate to donate to the City a site for a city fire station down here at
the southeast corner of the property. That would be approximately 160 by 160 foot section.
The block wall that I was describing would then separate the fire station from the rest of
the development. I guess in summary I would just like to say that what we are asking for
a total here tonight is for approval of the annexation and rezone as requested and the
preliminary plat approval which consists of the R-4 single family detached and the R-15
single family detached those 25 lots and then the 2 larger portions are included as lots in
that subdivision. Then later that approval if you were to get it would be conditioned on the
applicant returning with a conditional use permit application or planned unit development
application for these additional projects. I would be pleased to answer any questions you
might have.
Morrow: Mr. Mayor I have a question here, according to the cover letter and I think that we
are dealing with essentially 3 issues. Item #3 is appeal the planning and zoning
commission recommendation. In the cover letter there is a sentence that states and it is
addressing the issues with respect to the planning and zoning, it says,"Accordingly, in the
interim the developers created a proposal which has been described above and is
depicted in the attached drawings." Now apparently this proposal has been created since
the hearing at the P & Z level which in my mind constitutes new information that the P &
Z is not aware of. I think that what you are asking us is to pass or hear an appeal of the
information that was given to P & Z. I think I am confused as to what the two issues really
are here.
Kingsford: I think their application at least as I reviewed it was that they are appealing just
the plat am I wrong their Counselor?
Crookston: That is the way I read the appeal that was filed with the City was that they
were appealing the plat.
Kingsford: But then Walt has grounds to be confused as I am as well because we have
then this little beautifully bound booklet that P & Z has not been privy to.
Meridian City Council
May 16,1995
Page 29
Bradbury: Maybe I didn't make it as clear as you should be. The P & Z simply makes
recommendation with respect to the annexation and rezone so that comes before you
automatically. The P & Z makes a determination with respect to the preliminary plat and
their determination was to approve it in part and deny in part as I understood the findings
of fact and conclusions of law. They approved the preliminary plat with respect to the R-4
designation and denied with respect to the R~4 portion of the plat and denied it with
respect to the R-15 portion of the plat.
Crookston: Excuse me for interrupting, the findings don't pertain to the plat. All they
pertain to is the annexation and zoning.
Bradbury: Yes I understand that, but and you can correct me if I am wrong, the same
evening that the Planning and Zoning Commission issued its findings with respect to the
annexation and rezone they also made a further vote to approve the plat in part and deny
the plat in part. That is what we are appealing, is simply the denial of that portion of the
plat which sought annexation which sought an R-15 zoning designation. I know it gets a
little confusing and I have to admit that I have struggled with it a little bit too how you can
approve a portion of a plat and deny a portion of a plat but that is what P & Z did. It
seemed to us that in order to get the entire proposal before you we needed to file an
appeal of that portion of the plat which was denied. Beyond that let me tell you why it is
that you are seeing these concept drawings. Yes the planning and zoning commission I
think was concerned that the developer was asking for a zone on certain portions of the
property that where there wasn't a specific development application pending. There still
isn't, we are showing you these blue portions and the blue and green portions in order to
give you folks an idea of what the development concept is although all the plat would show
this is not a depiction of the plat that is being appealed from. Because if it was a depiction
of the plat which is being appealed from this green portion is all one big lot and this portion
is all one big lot. In other words this is one lot in the subdivision this is another lot in the
subdivision and then you have a whole bunch of others. These 2 lots in the subdivision are
a concept, our concept is to be developed in this fashion. What we are trying to convey to
you folks is give you an idea of what we have in mind so that you folks will have some
measure of comfort in approving a zone and annexing the property and approving a zone
conditioned upon the applicant ultimately developing something like what we are
proposing. Did that help to make you understand or did I make it worse?
Morrow: I think I was worse off than I was.
Bradbury: I am sorry to hear that. Let me see if I can try it another way. The annexation
is for 40 acres and in that 40 acres about 17 1/2 of it we are asking for an R-4 zone.
Planning and Zoning Commission said we can live with that. The other 23 acres or less
is proposed for an R-15 zone and the Planning and Zoning Commission said we can't live
Meridian City Council
May 16,1995
Page 30
with that because we don't know exactly what you have in mind to build there. So now we
are here saying to you this is what we have in mind to build there and are providing you
with this concept so that if you folks like the concept you can approve the annexation for
40 acres, approve the rezone to R-4 for the 17 and the R-15 for the 23 subject to the
condition that the applicant come back again and go through a conditional use process
which we understand is going to require additional hearings in order to get approval before
any further development can take place on this area of it shown in green and/or this area
shown in blue.
Corrie: What about that part that is purple (inaudible).
Bradbury: That is R-15 as well and I tell you I don't know why the Planning and Zoning
Commission felt uncomfortable in approving that portion of it and the findings don't
address it, I don't really know. That is a part of the preliminary plat as submitted and it
seems to us that perhaps you could most certainly approve that again if the concept is
acceptable to you.
Kingsford: It seems to me that you have presented us with something that P & Z ought to
have. It would certainly be my preference that you take that booklet and give it to P & Z
and let them make a pass on that.
Bradbury: Okay, I understand and I suppose I can understand what you are saying and I
guess I need to tell you this. We have been to P & Z at least 3 maybe 4 times and have
shown P & Z various concepts but in any case whether we are going to P & Z back with
this concept or going to you folks with this concept it is again nothing more than a concept
which is going to require public hearings before both Planning and Zoning Commission
and this body before development can take place at least with respect to those at the
proposed senior citizen area and the proposed condominium area. The preliminary plat
which is before you hasn't changed, it is exactly what was submitted to the Planning and
Zoning Commission. The only thing you have before you now is a little bit more information
into the concept.
Kingsford: Why I said what I did though Steve is P & Z at least the members that I spoke
with were not comfortable because they didn't have adequate information on those 2
areas. What I am suggestion is that you are giving us that perhaps adequate information
that should have gone to P & Z in my judgement.
Bradbury: I understand what you are saying I guess the only argument that I can make
again is that it is not for approval or disapproval of the condominium project now or even
if we went back to P & Z.
Meridian City Council
May 16, 1995
Page 31
Kingsford: AgaIn, though I think that I fall back on our Counselor's recommendation that
we have a way better handle at annexation and zonIng. If those people get to be satisfied
with your concept then I don't have a problem with the annexation and zoning. If they are
uncomfortable with this program than I don't think we want to grant an R-15. Those people
work awfully hard and I certaInly don't want to circumvent theIr authority.
Bradbury: No and I agree with that, I certainly understand that and if this body thinks they
would like to have the Planning and Zoning Commission take a look at this thing we will
certainly go.
Morrow: I think from my perspective I think that is what they are there for. I have a problem
with addItIonal information that is not testIfied to before them being presented to us at the
City Council and in fairness to them they make very good decisions based on the
information that they get. In this particular case there seems to be lots of loose ends that
don't make a lot of sense to me. I think obviously what they are telling us is that they have
some real reservations because I think that it is a little tough on a 40 acre annexation
request to approve part and not approve the rest and that is not the type of thing that I
would like to see come before us. So from my perspective I think that it rightfully belongs
with this additional presentation before P & Z.
Bradbury: One of the things is that so you don't get the feeling that we are tryIng to run
around P & Z that Doug and I had in mind was that perhaps if you folks got a look at this
concept and were to say something to the P & Z to the effect that for what it is worth folks
we like the concept.
Kingsford: We never try to intervene in their thought.
Bradbury: I don't want to you intervene I am thinking that perhaps you can gIve them the
benefit of your thoughts. That was part of what drove us to come to you with this project.
In addition to the fact that we have, the developer has some time constraints that he has
to work with in terms of acquisition of the property and we are beginning to run a little
short.
Kingsford: What is the Council's pleasure, remember you are just talking about the appeal
of the plat.
Morrow: I guess I need some help here, my motion would be that this really go back to P
& Z and I guess we accomplish that by denying the appeal, Counselor?
Crookston: If you just simply the deny it, it stays where it is. It is just a recommendation to
be denied. Our ordinances are a little different as between annexations, zonings and plats.
Meridian City Council
May 16,1995
Page 32
Our subdivision ordinance says that if P & Z denies it does not go to the City Council
unless by appeal. On the annexation and zoning it comes to the City Council regardless
of the recommendation of P & Z is. So for the purposes of the plat you can either approve
the appeal and send it back to P & Z, you can deny the appeal and then that plat then is
dead. Or you could approve with conditions and say how you want it addressed.
Morrow: That was a University of Idaho answer could you give to me in Boise State?
Crookston: I can't deal that way.
Kingsford: I think what need you to look at Walt is your motion jf that is your desire and
then put that subject to it being sent back to the next P & Z meeting with their review of the
additional material so that it automatically gets on their agenda and the ball is not dropped.
Corrie: So you can approve the appeal and then send it back?
Kingsford: No deny the appeal and then remand it back to P & Z with the additional
information.
Morrow: Mr. Mayor I would move that we deny the appeal, remand this back to P & Z for
the presentation of the additional information.
Yerrington: Second
Kingsford: Moved by Walt, second by Max to deny the appeal and remand it back to
Planning and Zoning Commission with the additional information, any discussion? All
those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
Bradbury: Just for clarification do I understand the decision to mean that you are not, the
plat hasn't been killed it has just been sent back to P & Z to be looked at again, is that the
intention?
Kingsford: That is the big 10-4.
ITEM #4: PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR ANNEXATION AND ZONING TO R-4 AND
R-15 FOR 45.46 ACRES FOR THE LAKE AT CHERRY LANE NO.5 & 6 BY STEINER
DEVELOPMENT:
Kingsford: We will take testimony if that is the folks desire to give that tonight because it
Meridian City Council
May 16, 1995
Page 33
was noticed. Recognizing that it will also you will have a shot at it at P & Z and this body
if it gets here.
Crookston: Well, the annexation and zoning would not unless you decide would not
necessarily go back of that portion of the R-4 portion.
Kingsford: In any event it would necessitate being tabled because I don't think it is this
body's interest in annexing and zoning that separate. We only have one legal description
I don't think we could do that.
Bradbury: To the extent that you care about what I think abut that, I agree. It seems to me
to make the most sense to have everything going in the same place at the same time.
Kingsford: I don't even think we could pass on that zoning because we don't have legal
descriptions for the separate parcels I don't believe, I think it is the whole thing.
Bradbury: I am not sure you do either. I guess I would suggest unless there are more
people here who wanted to testify with respect to the issues you simply table the matter
until you get it back from P & Z.
Kingsford: On the annexation and zoning I think we keep it but on the plat it is (inaudible).
Are we on board with that then Counselor?
Crookston: If I understand it correctly, you are going to table everything but the anything
that was requested to be annexed and zoned R-4, you are going to keep at the Council
level? And everything else goes back to P & Z including the plats.
Kingsford: I don't know that it makes a whole lot of difference whether we keep the zoning
here or it goes back. That is going to be acted on the same fail swoop at the Planning and
Zoning.
Morrow: I think it all goes back.
Kingsford: I think legitimately it all goes back.
Crookston: The annexation and the zoning and the plat? If that is the Council's decision.
Kingsford: We don't want to be too confused here.
Crookston: As I understand it that is your request Tuesday.
Meridian City Council
May 16, 1995
Page 34
Bradbury: Maybe I can answer it, our desire would be to have the application in total all
moved from one level to the other so we don't get lost in the shuffle and confused about
what is happening to who. Now, if that means that some progress is lost then I guess
maybe I (inaudible).
Kingsford: I don't see any way it would be lost, they are going to go together.
Bradbury: I think maybe the best bet is to send everything back for another look is maybe
the way I would put it in simply lay persons terms.
Corrie: You have made some statements in here that was not in there and (inaudible)
Kingsford: There are several things in this booklet that are considerably different that might
satisfy the concerns that I heard from Planning and Zoning.
Bradbury: And I understand what you folks are trying to accomplish and we are going to
certainly go along and cooperate with you.
Corrie: I might add, what you said at the Planning and Zoning (inaudible) corner out of the
fire departments area there.
Bradbury: That was just so that we could fit cars around the corner easier. We can take
a look at that.
Corrie: It is not much but you had RV parking (inaudible).
Bradbury: Yes there is actually a spot and it is down there adjacent to that fire station that
shows parking.
Corrie: Is that RV parking?
Bradbury: The first concept showed RV this would be more like for visitor parking.
Kingsford: For the public though you have been noticed that there was anyone who would
like to offer testimony on either agenda items 4 or 5 we would certainly be glad to hear
those.
Bill Teter, 2201 Allumbaugh Street, Boise, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Teter: Sometimes when I stand before people like you I get a little nervous. It might take
me a few minutes to get over it then I will tell you what I have. I would like to ask this
Meridian City Council
May 16, 1995
Page 35
Council a question. Since we have started the negotiations of this property, we own it It
has been 16 months, we have been back and forth before the City Council, before the
Planning and Zoning, before the Highway Department and now we have come 16 months
later. I am partly in the City zone and partly out of the City. We have been requested that
we sell to another subdivider property for a road. After that was negotiated and Ms. Stiles
stood here and said it was not acceptable but now it is on the plan exactly the way it was
when we started. I am trying to get the land farmed but that is very difficult because we
don't know whether we will have it this month or next month or a year from now. My
question is, is there somebody that can tell us what we can do with that land, what will be
required, what will be built on it and when we can do it? It seems to me that 16 months
trying to get it zoned and planned should be long enough. Mr. Campbell may never speak
to me again I don't know because he didn't know I was going to stand up here. But to the
wife and I it is getting quite frustrating.
Kingsford: I can certainly understand that.
Teter: If there is someone that we can go to, to get some help get this plan and this
property exchanged into a subdivision that we had hoped to I would like to have it
answered. Thank you
Kingsford: I guess I don't have an answer for your question. We act on that which is
brought before us. That which is brought before us has to be complete satisfactory at least
to date that hasn't been the case. I don't have a date certain for you, I don't know what
your contract is with Mr. Campbell. I am certainly not an attorney and I thank God for that.
But that is something that this body can't advise you until such time as we have a plat that
is satisfactory we are not going to approve it.
Teter: I heartedly agree with that, but is there someone that can tell us what can be built
there and what cannot? What is satisfactory?
Kingsford: Well, certainly at this moment what could be built there would be left up to Ada
County because it is not in the City limits of Meridian and we don't have jurisdiction per say
today. Now, with the request for annexation what can take place in the City is considerably
different than what can take place in the County. Much more dense population and so forth
but that has to be a satisfactory development plan to the City before that is approved.
Teter: How can we be partly in the City and partly out?
Kingsford: I don't understand that either which part is in the City?
Teter: R--4
Meridian City Council
May 16,1995
Page 36
Kingsford: It is not in the City that has been held up too, none of it is in the City at this
point.
Teter: They told us at the Planning and Zoning that it was annexed.
Kingsford: They had recommended annexation of that this body just denied that and sent
it back to P & Z and it is going to be kept in one parcel. All of it currently is in the County.
All of your ground is in the County.
Teter: I have no animosity but it certainly is confusing.
Kingsford: I've got to agree with you.
Morrow: Mr. Mayor, if if Might, Mr. Teter also part of what the process here is and one of
the reasons it is so incredibly frustrating is that you have been here all evening and you
have seen the development that was prior to you by State law and by City ordinance we
are require to solicit testimony from anybody that is affected by a development. In this case
each time there is a new concept then the process has to be re-done so the public has an
opportunity to voice their opinion about the project. Those things have all changed over
the last 20 years and so in answer to your question there is no on individual that can
provide you with the information that you are looking for because by State law and City
ordinance we are required to have input from not only the Planning and Zoning and the
City Council and the Mayor and the staff but the public in general. So that does make the
project very tedious and very time consuming.
(Inaudible)
Morrow: Could easily be could be much simpler projects. This issue you are dealing with
4 different types of land use on one parcel of property. The ones that you are addressing
in all probability were one land use and very simply housing project and not very complex.
(Inaudible)
Kingsford: Anyone else from the public that wants to be thoroughly confused? Seeing none
I will close the public hearing on item #4 and open the public hearing on #5.
ITEM #5: PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A PRELIMINARY PLAT FOR THE LAKE
AT CHERRY LANE NO.5 & 6,93 LOTS BY STEINER DEVELOPMENT:
Kingsford: Do any of you want to comment again that is, you will have a second shot at
that at both P & Z and this level. Seeing none I will close the public hearing on that issue.
Meridian City Council
May 16, 1995
Page 37
Morrow: Mr. Mayor I would move that we table items 4 and items 5, question is a date
certain.
Kingsford: It would have to be not tabled but remanded to P & Z.
Morrow: I am sorry let me retract that and start over. Mr. Mayor I move that we remand
items 4 and 5 to P & Z for further action.
Yerrington: Second
Kingsford: Moved by Walt, second by Max to remand items 4 and 5 to P & Z for further
action, all those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
ITEM #f3: PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR ANNEXATION AND ZONING TO R-8 FOR
.40 ACRE BY D.W. INC.:
Kingsford: At this time I will open the public hearing and invite the owner or his designee
to speak first.
Gary Lee, JUB Engineers, 1750 Summertree, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Lee: The application before you this evening is an annexation and zone request for a strip
of property that is sandwiched in between Wingate Subdivision an approved preliminary
plat and a couple of existing developments Chateau Meadows East NO.2 and Mirage
Meadows Subdivision. This piece of ground is 20 feet wide, adjacent to the property
Chateau Meadows it is known as Dixie Lane. There is also an additional 10 foot strip
adjacent to Mirage Meadows that was left out of the Mirage Meadows subdivision. So in
the area of the Barker property and Akerstrom property it is 30 feet wide. At the time the
developer presented Wingate Subdivision preliminary plat he did not have clear title to
that property and subsequently was not able to make it part of the annexation request for
preliminary plat. Since that time he has proceeded through a quiet title action on that strip
of land and was successful and now has ownership of it and control. So we are before this
body to request annexation and zoning to R-8 of that strip of land to make it contiguous
to the City of Meridian city limits and button up that area.
Kingsford: Gary, what's its status in terms of access easement?
Lee: There are easement rights to the Wood property, Monroe property, Barker property
and Akerstrom property from Fairview to that Dixie Lane.
Meridian City Council
May 16, 1995
Page 38
Kingsford: So really nothing would change other than that be annexed to the City they are
still going to have access be a private lane or what?
Lee: Well, the access will change once the final phase of Wingate Subdivision is finished
and the final plat has been prepared and submitted for approval. When this project goes
forward East Oakcrest will continue to the east and will provide access through the
Akerstrom property. And also to the balance of the Wingate subdivision. So the only other
property that would be lacking access off of Dixie Lane would be the Wood property up
north of there but currently it does have direct access to Chateau Meadows or Chateau
Drive. So they all do have legal access to public right of way. One of the conditions in the
Ada County Highway District review was to dedicate that portion of East Oakcrest Drive
as public right of way to provide that access. Which we will do by plat.
Morrow: That is that little strip of ground in the cross hatch portion?
Lee: A portion of it would be 50 foot wide strip going directly east of Oakcrest. And then
the portion lying north of that would be incorporated with that in the Wingate subdivision
phase 2 plat. The strip south of that the developer has agreed to allow that pedestrian
access to the Avest property. It is this strip about 100 feet long (inaudible).
Kingsford: Any other questions of Mr. Lee?
Lee: I have one other comment I wanted to make about some of the comments that were
made by Ada County Highway district and city staff about the possibilities of extending a
pedestrian access to the north all the way to Chateau Drive. We looked at that and
discussed it, it would be very difficult at this point in time to and that pedestrian access
(End of Tape) balance of the Wood property doesn't leave any room for a pedestrian
pathway. Mr. Wood has expressed concerns about an access coming through there in his
backyard (inaudible) neighbors to the west would have that same concern. Do you have
any questions I can answer?
Kingsford: Questions of Mr. Lee? Anyone else from the public? I will close the public
hearing, Council members?
Tolsma: Mr. Mayor, I move we approve the findings of fact and conclusions of law as
prepared for P & Z for this annexation and zoning to R-8 for D.W. Inc.
Morrow: Second
Kingsford: Moved by Ron, second by Walt to approve of the findings of fact and
conclusions of law as prepared for P & Z for the annexation and zoning for D.W. Inc. for
Meridian City Council
May 16, 1995
Page 39
.40 acres, roll call vote.
ROLL CALL VOTE: Morrow - Yea, Yerrington - Yea, Corrie - Yea, Tolsma - Yea
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
Kingsford: Is there a motion on the decision?
Morrow Mr. Mayor, I recommend that the City Council of the City of Meridian approve the
annexation and zoning as stated above for the property described in the application with
the conditions set forth in the findings of fact and conclusions of law and the appl icant and
owners be specifically required to tile all ditches, canals, waterways as a condition of
annexation. That the applicant meet all of the ordinances of the City of Meridian and of
the staff and if conditions are not met the property be de-annexed.
Tolsma: Second
Kingsford: Moved by Walt, second by Ron to approve of the decision, all those in favor?
Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
Tolsma: Mr. Mayor I move we instruct the City Attorney to draw up an ordinance for
annexation and zoning.
Morrow: Second
Kingsford: Moved by Ron, second by Walt to have the City Attorney prepare the zoning
and annexation ordinance, all those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
FIVE MINUTE BREAK
ITEM #7: PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A PRELIMINARY PLAT FOR MAWS
ADDITION NO.3, 6 LOTS BY MAWS LIMITED PARTNERSHIP:
Kingsford: At this time I will open the public hearing and invite the owner or his designee
to speak first.
Ted Hutchinson, 109 South 4th Street, Boise, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Meridian City Council
May 16, 1995
Page 40
Hutchinson: Thank you Mr. Mayor and members of the Council. I believe there is a typo
this is a 7 lot subdivision with 7 residential lots plus one drainage lot. This is the final
phase for Maws Addition. The prior approval for this particular site which expired for Maws
3 had lots which had 60 foot street frontages, we have re-designed this proposal to comply
with the current regulations for R-8 development. This site is zoned R-8 and I believe that
this now complies with the street frontage and lot size requirements. We do include a
drainage lot on the north end of the development, we will be making improvements to
Adkins Lane which will be improved to 1/2 of a 37 foot street section plus 12 feet of paving
plus the sidewalk. It is our understanding that Danbury Fair will connect to Adkins Lane
will will further the completion of Adkins to its full width. We have reviewed the comments
and recommended conditions of approval, we agree with those comments and conditions.
We just have one question about one of the conditions regarding perimeter fencing. It
would be our understanding that the required fence would be along the northern boundary
and the southern boundary because this is the completion of the Maws Addition project.
Then we should also not at this time that the entire site for Maws Addition is excluded from
the irrigation district in 1992. Basically this will comply with the requirements for
development in the R-8 zone. Are there any questions from the Council at this time?
Kingsford: Questions for Mr. Hutchinson?
Morrow: I have a question with respect to the site specific comments. Obviously you have
indicated in your testimony that at some point in time Adkins Lane will hook up or continue
through Danbury Fair. There is nothing here that indicates when that will happen, there is
a comment that some form of temporary turn around will be necessary. I guess I would
solicit your comments on that as I see it temporary turn around would be mandatory for
emergency vehicle folk until that hook up is made.
Hutchinson: Mr. Mayor, Councilman Morrow, that has created an interesting problem, the
issue was raised at the Highway District as well for a temporary turn around on Adkins
Lane. There are additional properties that go on beyond the boundary line of our property
between us and Danbury Fair. Those properties have access onto Adkins Lane. We don't
know when Danbury Fair will make the connection into Adkins Lane. It was my
understanding from the Zoning Administrators comments at the P & Z hearing that will
connect to Adkins, Danbury will connect to Adkins. Then there is the issue of where would
the temporary turn around be located we are not sure how that would be facilitated on that
ground given that there are additional properties that use Adkins north of this site. I am
not sure how they are turning around at this point at the end of Danbury or Adkins excuse
me. Any suggestions on how I could accomplish that?
Morrow: (Inaudible) and Gary concerning that?
Meridian City Council
May 16, 1995
Page 41
Kingsford: Any other questions of the engineer? Anyone else from the public that would
like to offer testimony on this issue? Seeing none I will close the public hearing.
Morrow: I have a question for Gary, can you help us out here with respect to turn around
information for our fire department?
Smith: I am sorry Councilman Morrow I haven't been out to the site so I don't know what
Adkins Lane is like.
Morrow: In terms of the site specific comments that was from the Planning Department that
was Shari's deal and is she gone for the evening or here?
Smith: She is here I don't know where she is.
Kingsford: Front and center Shari, comment on Maws Addition, Adkins Lane.
Morrow: The turn around issue. The question is that we need some place for our fire
trucks, large vehicles, paramedic vehicles to be able to turn around. Now Mr. Hutchinson
has indicated that there are properties on down Adkins Lane at the current time and also
the comments are that this will hook up to a street in Danbury Fair at such time that is
developed and apparently that is not developed at this point in time. And there is no
schedule. My concern here is how do we get stuff turned around and the site specific
comments that you wrote you address the issue of some form of temporary turn around
may be necessary. What did you have in mind for accomplishing that?
Stiles: That the end lot there not be developed until such time as that access is available
through there. So essentially it wouldn't be a buildable lot until the access goes through.
Because there is no other way to accommodate a 50 foot radius turn around.
Kingsford: Either that or get permission from the people to the west to allow for that turn
around part of it on their land. Would that be a possibility?
Stiles: I guess they could approach them about it, we did get a letter from one of the
neighbors across the street that seemed to think that all of the right of way would be
coming off of this property here and that none of the additional right of way would come
from their property.
Morrow: That is Mrs. Farrington?
Stiles: Yes
Meridian City Council
May 16,1995
Page 42
Kingsford: Was she advised that wouldn't be the case if there would be, she would be
required or whoever when that is developed that half street?
Stiles: I don't know if she was here for the hearing. She thought because she had a survey
which showed where her present pins are that any future road would just come off the
other side of the street.
Corrie: I guess Mr. Mayor what you are saying the people to the west doesn't give a turn
around Lot 33 can't be built on until it goes through is that what you are saying? Does the
developer know that?
Stiles: I don't know.
Kingsford: Well, perhaps that 34, Ted can you speak to that. Lot 34 is your water retainage
is that correct, what would be wrong with making a ball turn around on that site? What is
its depth I guess is the first question?
Hutchinson: (Inaudible)
Kingsford: Looks like 25 but I am not certain.
Hutchinson: (Inaudible) I was just talking to the developer on this and he may have a
possibility of speaking with another property owner about the development of a 50 foot turn
around at the end of that. Like I say temporary in nature until Danbury is connected
through to Pine.
Kingsford: I think certainly an approval would have to be conditioned on either that taking
place or designate either Lot 34 if you can get it all on or restrict Lot 33 for a temporary
turn around.
Hutchinson: We recognize that if that is the condition we will have to comply with it one
or the other we will get a turn around.
Kingsford: Any other questions of staff? What is the Council's pleasure?
Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I would move that we approve the preliminary plat subject to the staff
conditions subject to the Council condition that there be a turn around at this point on, my
preference at this point would be to have it on Lot 33 because we know that it feets there.
So I would make my motion that we approve the preliminary plat.
Kingsford: I think you can just limit it to requiring a 50 foot turn radius and if that requires
Meridian City Council
May 16,1995
Page 43
limitation on Lot 33 so be it.
Morrow: I would move that we approve the preliminary plat with the requirement of an all
weather 50 foot turning radius.
Tolsma: Second
Kingsford: Moved by Walt, second by Ron to approve the preliminary plat for Maws
Addition NO.3 conditioned upon all staff requests being met and the City Council request
of a 50 foot all weather turning radius be met at the end of that street, all those in favor?
Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
ITEM #8: PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A VARIANCE TO THE SETBACK
REQUIREMENT BY DAVID AND DENISE HALL:
Kingsford: At this time I will open the public hearing and invite the owner or their designee
to speak first. Are they represented here this evening? Were they aware of this Mr. Berg?
Anyone else from the public that would like to offer testimony on that issue then? Anyone
familiar with the request? Shari are you familiar with the request by Dave and Denise Hall,
variance to the setback requirement? They are not represented here this evening.
Stiles: Is that for, they wanted a 4 foot 6 inch side setback instead of 5 feet?
Corrie: (Inaudible)
Kingsford: Will is saying that Daunt had some comments that didn't get into our packet.
Morrow: If I understand their application correctly they purchased this home unknowing
that it was in violation of the setback, under #4.
Corrie: (Inaudible)
Kingsford: Was it a spec home or what?
Stiles: Mayor and Council this was John Barnes submitted this application he is the one
that dropped the application off. I don't really know what the association is there unless
he is just trying to help them out because he feels partly responsible for it.
Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I move that we table this to the first meeting in June.
Meridian City Council
May 16,1995
Page 44
Yerrington: Second
Kingsford: Moved by Walt, second by Max to table this item to the first meeting in June,
all those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
ITEM #9: PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A VARIANCE FOR A TWO YEAR TIME
EXTENSION ON RECORDING FINAL PLAT FOR GOLF VIEW NO.4 & 5 BY GOLF VIEW
ESTATES LIMITED PARTNERSHIP:
Kingsford: At this time I will open the public hearing and invite the owner or his designee
to speak first.
Russ Hepworth, EHM Engineer, 4418 Clinton Street, Boise, was sworn by the City
Attorney.
Hepworth: I am representing the applicant Golf View Associates Limited Partnership the
applicant is requesting a two year time extension to complete this final platting of phases
4 and 5 of Golf View Estates. As a way of background we have completed the construction
on phase 2 in late 1992 and completed construction of phase 3 in 1993. We have
received approval though this Council for the final plats of Golf View Estate NO.4 and 5.
Number 4 being March 2nd 1993 and NO.5 being July 6,1993. Because of the slow sales
for the completed construction of the phases 2 and 3 and most currently the reconstruction
of West Cherry Lane further slowing these sales it has put a delay on construction and
also the final platting processes for phases 4 and 5 of this project. It has been delayed
until at some point the lot inventory can be reduced to what is approximately 10 to 15 lots.
At this time well because of this delay in the construction of 4 and 7 phases 4 and 5 of this
project the platting process just kind of got away from us and we didn't finish that in the
time required. And at this point we are requesting again that 2 year extension so we can
complete the platting processes on 4 and 5 subject to the conditions that are already on
those final plat approvals. As a note just want to state here that the construction plans for
both of these phases of construction for Golf View Estates NO.4 and 5 have been
submitted to the City. They have been returned to me with revisions, required revisions,
I have at this time submitted them back to the City to the engineering department and they
have those and are reviewing them at this time. Any questions?
Kingsford: I guess maybe, you are saying we have approved the final plats and we have
the development plans in here. They are about to be approved, you are asking for a 2 year
extension on just recording?
Meridian City Council
May 16,1995
Page 45
Hepworth: Right
Kingsford: You want to sit on all of that for 2 years before you record it?
Hepworth: No, we want a 2 year, and maybe we don't need this, it was my understanding
that we did, even though we have final plat approval through this Council we have not
completed that in what I believe is the one year time period to do so to final plat those 2
phases. We are requesting a 2 year extension time period to complete the final platting
process and recordation of those 2 phases.
Kingsford: So what you are is already one year delinquent jf your dates are hooking up
with me. So your 2 years would run from the time they expired or are you asking for 2
years from now?
Hepworth: Two years from now even though we are one year delinquent. Because it
would be, the one year would have been for like (inaudible) July 6, 1994.
Kingsford: This may be a good time to ask for a development agreement, could you give
a $100 a lot for those like phase 1 did for the golf course? Golf course construction, we
had just a verbal agreement with the prior developer on phase 1 from sale of each of those
lots we got a $100 into our golf course development fund. They are doing that in Cherry
Lane No.1, 2 and 3 as well. The new part that is out there by the lake and Ashford Green
we are looking at an initial development agreement of $600 a lot to develop that. I thought
this might be a great opportunity. We had asked and requested that and the ownership
changed and never heard anything back.
(Inaudible)
Kingsford: I think it was in the form of a letter.
Hepworth: This is for the existing Golf View NO.1?
Kingsford: Correct
Hepworth: That is already a standing letter, accepting $100 a lot.
Kingsford: We would be glad to take that for phases 4 and 5 it would help us greatly that
is something I couldn't necessarily force. Nor would it be blackmail for this approval.
Yerrington: Mr. Mayor can we go back and have them tile the Safford Lateral?
Meridian City Council
May 16, 1995
Page 46
Kingsford: Well, certainly that becomes an issue. I know the developer of Ashford Greens
is here and that is one of his concerns is he is going to be looking because that lateral will
abut part of his property it also abuts this. Our current ordinance says that it be tiled. He
is going to be I know asking for a variance to that because it is going to put him in a
position of hardship to tile that all the way along this property and so forth. So that will
become and issue. Well, I guess we don't have any more questions, this is a public
hearing we will have to take other testimony. Anyone from the public that would like to
offer testimony on this issue? Seeing none I will close the public hearing. What is the
Council's pleasure?
Bryan McKoy, 180 Telemark Road, Ketchum, was sworn by the City Attorney.
McKoy: I just wanted to follow up on the comment that was made Mr. Mayor, I am not quite
sure what the issues are and whether this is the proper forum. We were unaware of any
contribution regarding the golf course or whatever golf course fund there was it was
certainly not disclosed to us back when we purchased the property. So I am, I would just
leave that up to you.
Kingsford: We did receive from Dennis Marshall and I believe it was the first 22 lots that
he had some control over. He did agree to and contribute $100 per lot for those first 22
lots. I didn't see the letter but I directed a letter be addressed to new ownership and I
assumed at that point that was you to see if you would be willing to contribute that same
amount. The City will be developing that golf course at least to my knowledge we never
heard anything back from that letter.
McKoy: Is this the Cherry Lane golf course?
Kingsford: Correct, the second 9. The other issue that we were just discussing is Safford
lateral that our ordinances now require that be tiled. It will abut, Safford lateral I believe
separates the properties of Ashford Greens and Golf View Estates.
McKoy: To our north?
Kingsford: Right, their south, that the Council may very well be looking at since the plat
has expired that should be tiled and logically, jointly by the 2 if in fact they require that
tiling.
McKoy: It would be phase 5, about half of our northern perimeter is, would be in phase 5
approximately. The other half was included in phase 2. It has been fenced and there are
property owners there now. But, if, we would certainly consider the request for the $100
if I just knew more about the details and what was involved and how it was applied. If that
Meridian City Council
May 16, 1995
Page 47
were applied to phases 4 and 5.
Kingsford: We certainly couldn't make that retroactive and it is not anything that I don't
think we have the right to demand any way.
McKoy: No, but it is certainly a reasonable amount.
Kingsford: I don't know what is the Council's pleasure with regard to the plat extension and
your concerns about the tiling?
Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I have a question here, if we deny the variance and the plat is expired
then there is an entire resubmittal process subject to new conditions that exist today. If we
approve the variance re-instating the plat and granting a two year extension that is under
those conditions that it was originally approved by.
Corrie: Mr. Mayor, then they would not be required to do the tiling then is that correct?
Kingsford: I think that is correct, then you need to decide if you do that are you going to
force all of the obligation on to the other side. And certainly you can only deal with 4 and
5 on that issue.
(Inaudible)
Kingsford: You are talking about 48 inch probably.
Corrie: I am sure because there is a lot of water that goes through there.
Morrow: That was the one that Nampa Meridian with respect to Ashford Greens testified
that a 48 inch diameter pipe would handle the flow is that correct. At other areas within
Cherry lane it is already tiled.
Kingsford: Correct, there is a portion of it that is tiled through the golf course.
Crookston: Is the Safford Lateral the same as the Eight Mile Lateral?
Kingsford: No
Crookston: To my knowledge the only portion of the Safford that is tiled would be right
along the front of Cherry Lane Village No. 1 along Cherry Lane.
Corrie: Yes, I think that is correct.
Meridian City Council
May 16,1995
Page 48
Kingsford: And what is the size of that?
Crookston: I don't know.
Corrie: (Inaudible)
Kingsford: Forty-eight moves a lot of water though. It is not as big as Eight Mile that runs
through along NO.6 in the golf course. It is certainly no bigger and that is a 48 inch pipe.
Morrow: So the Safford lateral here is not contiguous to the Ashford Greens property?
Kingsford: It is, it goes in and goes between Golf View and what will be Ashford Greens.
Morrow: Eight Mile crosses the golf course?
Kingsford: Right it will also go across then Ashford Greens, across the golf course and will
go along the north boundary of Ashford Greens and into Black Cat.
Morrow: And does not one of these belong to Meridian and one belongs to Settlers?
Kingsford: That I couldn't address.
Hepworth: The Settlers irrigation canal runs along the north side of West Cherry Lane and
then comes up
Kingsford: Is it Safford lateral though?
Hepworth: No, it parallels Safford lateral on the west side of Black Cat Road. It goes up
the west boundary of
Kingsford: So both Safford and Eight Mile are Nampa Meridian ditches is that correct?
Hepworth: I think Settlers irrigation is a separate entity.
Kingsford: I know that is true but I want to know is who has control over both Safford and
the Eight Mile Drain. I know the Eight Mile is Nampa Meridian.
Hepworth: The Safford is Nampa Meridian then.
Kingsford: Thank you, what is the Council's pleasure?
Meridian City Council
May 16, 1995
Page 49
Morrow: Mr. Mayor, point of discussion here, I think the issue here is that we need to make
a decision about the tiling thing because I don't think it is fair to require Ashford Greens
to pay the full boat in that common area. I am not totally comfortable about making a
decision about this without having these facts before us. I don't disagree and I think it is
something you guys need to look at and look at closely is with regard to both of those
projects. It is fenced on the south side of Golf View for quite a distance. I think you need
to look at what you want to see there in a way of continuity and perhaps a table might be
appropriate.
Morrow: I would move to table until the, when is the next Ashford Greens hearing
regarding this?
(Inaudible)
Morrow: I would move to table to the first meeting in June.
Crookston: Has the hearing been closed?
Kingsford: I don't remember, I think gave one opportunity, okay the hearing is closed. I
think I did.
Morrow: The motion is to table the action on the request for variance from Golf View
Estates Limited Partnership until the first meeting in June, June 6th.
Tolsma: Second
Kingsford: Moved by Walt, second by Ron to table this issue until the first meeting in June,
June 6th, all those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
ITEM #10: REQUEST FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR MANUFACTURING
AND SALE OF SPECIALTY CANDY BY THE LITTLE CHIPMUNK:
Kingsford: Is there a representative present on that? It is not a public hearing.
Adamson: I don't know why I am here.
Kingsford: You tell us what you want to have.
Adamson: I am the representative, I am one of the owners of the building. We made the
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May 16, 1995
Page 50
application for the conditional use because we felt that was the politically correct thing to
do. And, we appeared before Planning and Zoning and we have been given some
recommendations as of Friday I was handed a pamphlet or a compilation of papers and
some of that is somewhat confusing. Not being politically savvy I don't know what the
procedure is now for the conditional use. Whether we meet all the conditions, whether we
scream and holler or what happens next. But since I was told we were on the agenda I
was told somebody ought to be here.
Kingsford: Does the Council have any questions of the applicant?
Tolsma: (Inaudible)
Adamson: Side by side basically, Son Shine occupy which I am an employee, Son Shine
occupy about 2/3 to 3/4 of the building. Carpet Headquarters occupied the other portion
which would be basically the west half of the building on the lower floor. Carpet
Headquarters is gone now.
Tolsma: (Inaudible)
Adamson: Yes
Tolsma: We have a lot of people who use that alley that complain about the debris and
refuse piled in and adjacent to the alley. (Inaudible)
Adamson: We have not been approached but I can agree. No one has mentioned anything
to us but I can agree we have a man that hauls our scrap that isn't too timely in getting it
hauled off of which we are trying to address and spring is here and we can operate. We
are looking at fencing that back portion in so it becomes invisible.
Tolsma: (Inaudible)
Kingsford: Any other questions? You indicated you had some questions and concerns
about the comments, which ones are you not clear on?
Adamson: There was the paving issue and I see that a specific comment has been
addressed that, that we would be responsible for paving a portion of the alley that is on our
property. And then the concept of retail space was addressed at the P & Z meeting that
basically there is not much retail space and I see they are still requiring parking spaces
for 3,000 square feet of retail which there isn't that much retail that would be there. I think
we can probably live and we can handle the paving of the portion of the alley that would
be ours.
Meridian City Council
May 16, 1995
Page 51
Kingsford: How many square feet then do you think would be assigned to the candy
portion?
Adamson: Retail part would be approximately 200 to 300 square feet.
Kingsford: Shari, what would that require then in parking, 200 to 300 square feet of retail?
Stiles: One space for every 200 square feet, so 2 for that use.
Adamson: We have the capability of approximately 8 to 10 spaces on the side that we are
in a rental agreement. So I guess that would not be a problem then.
Kingsford: Any other of those that you had a question about?
Adamson: Procedural I guess, do we continue to forge ahead to make things work and
then you would at some time and day say yes you got or do we get a conditional permit
approved and then we continue to make it work?
Kingsford: You should have the conditional use permit before you forge ahead.
Adamson: We are forging with the cleaning and repairs and that sort of thing.
Kingsford: Any other questions of the Council? I think you have findings of fact, is there
a motion on those?
Morrow: I have a question, on page 8 Item 5, the comments of the City Engineer and the
Planning and Zoning Administrator must be met and complied with triple question marks.
What is the implication there?
Crookston: The implication there is an error by your attorney. It was a matter that I forgot
to go back and look to see what those requirements were.
Corrie: (Inaudible)
Adamson: The original request for ACHD was that we pave from our property all the way
to first and of course we cried and they backed that up and deferred it to Meridian City and
Meridian City took it under advisement and their response I am guessing is #6 on the
findings of fact page 8.
Kingsford: What was your question Bob?
Meridian City Council
May 16, 1995
Page 52
Corrie: That was the same one in the site specific comments (inaudible) I think that should
be part of it. But #5 needs to be taken out I think.
Morrow You are saying take out sentence number 5?
Corrie: Take that #5 (inaudible) the comments of City Engineer and Planning and Zoning
Administrator cannot be met according to what the findings of fact are on #6. He is paving
part ofthe alley and the other says he has to pave it all. I think that is one of the reasons
you brought it up (inaudible).
Morrow: You are talking about the site specific comments from the planning department?
Corrie: Yes
Kingsford: I don't see a problem with that Bob I guess maybe I am (inaudible).
Corrie: Okay, 15 parking spaces are required.
Kingsford: That will have to be adjusted to (inaudible) but with regard to the paving it says
shall not be required and that matches with what our staff recommendations are. They
shall pave the alley on their property (inaudible) I read the site specific comment wrong.
Morrow: In terms of the site specific comments items 2 and 3 are in error.
Corrie: (Inaudible)
Adamson: It was our understanding that we had one.
Stiles: Mayor Kingsford and Council (End of Tape) I looked through our files and couldn't
find anything on Carpet Headquarters or anything on Son Shine. Do you recall any of you?
Kingsford: It would be my guess that Carpet Headquarters wouldn't have required one
because that building has long been a furniture and carpet outlet and that would have not
been required. Now the Son Shine issue I would think should have had one.
Adamson: I addressed that with Jack Niemann when we first moved here. I guess things
were different in those days.
Kingsford: Well, it is still required everything in Old Town which that was required a
conditional se permit. I don't know that ever come before the City Council.
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May 16, 1995
Page 53
Adamson: It might not have due to my greenness in this. When Jack and I discussed this
before we moved over he said that is in Old Town I don't see any problem I will take care
of it. I thought that was all that was necessary. So we never pursued it at that point
figuring that was all that needed to be done. So, if the process if application like we have
done so far with Little Chipmunk then no we never did any of that. It was all verbal.
Kingsford: That is the way it should have been.
Adamson: Can we incorporate the 2 since I have already started the check with this one?
Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I think, I guess I am not concerned about the staff conditions because
item 6 on page 8 also addresses the issue of the paving only on the alley behind the
applicant's property. With respect to the parking spaces I think that we can adopt the
findings of fact and conclusions of law as \Mitten with the condition that the parking spaces
be moved from 15 to 2 as required.
Kingsford: Well, either 2 or 4 depending on whether he is talking 200 feet of 300 feet.
Morrow: It is 1 parking space for every 200 square feet. So we are assuming it is 300
square feet and requires 2 spaces. So I would make the motion that we adopt the findings
of fact and conclusions of law as written with the stipulation that in the site specific
requirements #3 be changed from 15 parking spaces to 2 parking spaces are required for
300 square feet of retail space.
Corrie: (Inaudible)
Morrow: Number 2 Bob is addressed in item 6 of the findings of fact and conclusions.
Corrie: I know but it is also (inaudible)
Yerrington: Second
Kingsford: Moved and second, discussion. I think you need to deal with this, Mr. Corrie is
saying since it incorporates in the findings the requirements of staff that issue with regard
to paving all of the alley needs to be deleted to where it only is required, so it parallels
Morrow: Item 6 says that.
Kingsford: I know but in your site specific it says all the way to 1 st Street. And also in the
findings it says that staff requirement shall be met. And so there is a conflict there. In item
5 it says all staff requirements be met and staff requirements were paving it all the way to
Meridian City Council
May 16,1995
Page 54
1st Street, so you have a conflict and I think that is what Bob is talking about.
Morrow; I will withdraw the motion.
Yerrington: Second withdrawn.
Kingsford: Do you have a new motion?
Morrow: The new motion would be that we adopt the findings of fact and conclusions of
law as written with the modification to the site specific comments of deleting item 2,
changing the requirement on item 3 to read 2 parking spaces are required for 300 square
feet of retail area. That would bring it in conformance with item 6 with respect to the
paving on page 8.
Yerrington: Second
Kingsford: Moved by Walt, second by Max to approve of the findings of fact and
conclusions of law but deleting site specific requirements of item 2 and amended item 3
to have 2 parking spaces for 300 square feet of retail space instead of 15, roll call vote.
ROLL CALL VOTE: Morrow - Yea, Yerrington - Yea, Corrie - Yea, Tolsma - Yea
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
Kingsford: Is there a motion on the decision?
Morrow: Mr. Mayor I would move that the Meridian City Council approve the conditional
use permit requested by the applicant for the property described in the application with the
conditions set forth in the amended findings of fact and conclusions of law.
Yerrington: Second
Kingsford: Moved by Walt, second by Max to approve of the decision which was to
approve the conditional use permit as outlined, all those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
Smith: Mr. Mayor, can I get a point of clarification on the alley paving, I could be wrong
but I don't think the alley is on the property. I think it is a dedicated right of way on a plat.
So I guess I need to know (inaudible) adjacent to their property rather than on their
property. The half of the alley or from their east to west property line.
Meridian City Council
May 16, 1995
Page 55
Kingsford: Did the Highway District speak to when they were talking about their part were
they talking about half the alley or the whole thing?
Smith: They were talking about the whole alley I believe when they started out. I think that
is part of Old Town that is part of a plat and (inaudible).
Kingsford: I think you are right that is a dedicated (inaudible)
Smith: That alley is a dedicated right of way and public right of way and it is not on the
property it is adjacent to the property but it is not part of this property. So if they are going
to be required to pave that alley if they are paving the half of the alley adjacent to their
property.
Kingsford: Is that about 8 feet?
Smith: Yes, typically those alleys are 16 feet wide so they are talking about 8 feet for the
width of the property, the east west width of the property. Is that what the applicant
understood from the Highway district?
Adamson: My understanding, their first request of course was the entire alley for the whole
length and when we cried and said we couldn't do that our original statement it is not our
alley it is the City of Meridian's.
Smith: It is the Highway District's.
Adamson: They didn't argue with us, but they still wanted to see it done. So when I saw
this that we would do the portion that was on our property I have not yet put the tape
measure to it but if we have much of that alley it has to be measured in inches that would
be on our property.
Smith: Well, I don't think it is on your property it is adjacent to your property.
Adamson: I understood the concept of adjacent and I was thinking 8 feet times the width
of my property.
Smith: Correct, that would be my thought.
Adamson: It seems silly to me but then I guess I won't bring that up at this point. There
is one pothole and the rest of it is good. The pothole is this big and the rest of it is great.
Everybody else's stuff is in a miserable mess. It looks like ours will be pretty easy to patch
up and fix.
Meridian City Council
May 16,1995
Page 56
Kingsford: I don't know that the Highway District really has authority nor do we to make him
fix a street when they modify their building in any way do we?
Smith: I think we ran into the same situation with the Red Door shop here on East 1 st. That
alley and parking they had to provide on their property it seems like there was some alley
improvements required by the highway district there also.
Kingsford: But they had to do that with some parking and we aren't seeking that here.
Smith: Right and they had a drainage situation to deal with.
ITEM #11: REQUEST FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A QUICK SERVICE
RESTAURANT BY MCDONALD'S INC.:
Kingsford: Does Council have any question about that? This is on the Locust Grove and
Fairview Avest property.
Corrie: Mr. Mayor, on page 6 of the findings of fact, number 8, the structure on the property
must be brought up to all codes prior to issuance of an occupancy permits. Is there a
structure there?
(Inaudible)
Kingsford: It probably should read to be constructed to that. Any other questions or
comments? Is there a motion on the amended findings?
Morrow: Mr. Mayor I would move that we approve the amended findings for the
McDonald's conditional use permit.
Tolsma: Second
Kingsford: Moved by Walt, second by Ron to approve of the amended findings of fact and
conclusions of law on the conditional use permit, roll call vote.
ROLL CALL VOTE: Morrow -Yea, Yerrington - Yea, Corrie - Yea, Tolsma - Yea
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
Kingsford: Is there a motion on the decision?
Morrow: The motion would be that the Meridian City Council approve the conditional use
Meridian City Council
May 16, 1995
Page 57
permit requested by the applicant for the property described in the application with the
conditions set forth in the amended findings of fact and conclusions of law.
Yerrington: Second
Kingsford: Moved by Walt, second by Max to approve the decision stipulating to the
amended findings, all those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
ITEM #12: REQUEST FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR 2 DRIVE THRU
RESTAURANTS BY RICK THOMAS:
Kingsford: Mr. Caven are you representing him?
Caven: Mayor and Councilmen I am here representing Rick Thomas on the conditional
use that is before you for 2 drive thrus. I would like to clarify on page 38 of the planning
and zoning commission comments that were made, I don't know if you can see the plat
map over here, building "B" is the restaurant that we have the tenants for at this point. It
was a little bit confusing in the comments here. It said Building "A" which is on the north
side. I just wanted to clarify it is Building "B" that we have tenants for, building "A" we
haven't filled and so the comment was made that this was a conceptual drawing or if this
was the final except for that pad "A" that could turn into a might not end up a drive through
it could end up with a full sit down restaurant. We would like to go ahead and get the
conditional use for a drive thru and then change it to a sit down if that is the ultimate use
for that. I just wanted to clarify that, that was a little mix up. It had in here that a 30,000
square foot retail building below was going to be a sit down restaurant, that is not going
to be a restaurant (inaudible). I want to make one other comment on the findings of fact
and conclusions of law page 9, item 7 and 8, item 7 states that we meet the requirements
of Ada County Highway District and also the Nampa Meridian Irrigation District. We don't
have a problem with that. It does coincide with number 8 however where the City has
asked us or is not going to permit us vehicle access to Gem Avenue to the north. At this
point we aren't requesting access, however we would like to see if we could strike number
8. East 1 st and Meridian Road as you know right now is kind of up in the air what is going
to happen with those streets. My understanding is that it is a concept drawing right now
for traffic going both ways on both streets. I guess there are some talks with the City of
Meridian about making that a one way going north on East First and a one way going
south on Meridian Road. So that could affect our piece of property and how the internal
flow of traffic is affected. So we would like to keep it open as a possibility to put an access
across the Eight Mile Lateral to Gem Avenue in the future if the road designs around the
property are changed and affect our traffic flow on the site. Right now they don't affect it
Meridian City Council
May 16,1995
Page 58
in a negative way so we don't need it, but we may need it in the future, And Shari can talk
to you, she talked to ACHD also, They are not opposed to the access across the Eight Mile
to Gem Avenue. I believe it was put in there because of the comments made by the
bowling alley that they had an agreement with ACHD that they could park there. Well to
my knowledge ACHD is not in the business of reserving parking spots on public right of
way for people. So you can talk to Shari she talked to ACHD to that effect and if you have
any questions in that regard. Other than that, that is all we have.
Kingsford: Questions of the Council for Mr. Caven?
Yerrington: I have one question, how about the Eight Mile Lateral, tiling that ditch. We are
talking about tiling it through the golf course in a 48 inch tile how about that section there?
Caven: The staff report, we have to go through a variance process for that which we have
filed and it has to come before this Commission, Council here. Talking with Planning and
Zoning and with staff it has not been a requirement to tile laterals over 48 inches in
diameter. Talking to the Irrigation District they are not requesting that it be tiled, the
estimate is it would be a minimum of 48 probably up to 61 inches in diameter. Staff and
the irrigation district are not recommending tiling of that lateral. It has not been tiled to the
east through the Corporate Park to the east of us and it hasn't been tiled to the west.
Kingsford: Any other questions or comments? What is the Council's pleasure?
Corrie: Mr. Mayor, I guess I have one comment for Walt, you said (inaudible)
Morrow: Well, my comment was I did not want to see this or any other development along
those properties interfere with the completed designs that, for Franklin Road, East 1st,
Waltman Lane project. This has ingress/egress off of both East 1 st and Meridian Road
which would work with that configuration. Now then obviously the actual development here
would have to be with that design data. We should be seeing that as a City Council for the
final design within a matter of the next few weeks. I know that the engineering company
was substantially behind schedule, it was my understanding, and Gary correct me here if
I am outside, but it is my understanding that the ACHD is doing the final review of those
plans subject to the final printing. We will see a short presentation before us and my
comments would still hold that the development of this property would not interfere with
that design.
Caven: Bell Walker Engineers is doing that road design, they work for us also. The set
backs and the property that they need has been taken into consideration in this project for
the widening and the giving up of the property that they need for the roads.
Meridian City Council
May 16, 1995
Page 59
Kingsford: Is there a motion on the findings?
Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I move that we approve the findings of fact and conclusions of law as
written.
Tolsma: Second
Kingsford: Moved by Walt, second by Ron to approve of the findings of fact and
conclusions of law as written, roll call vote.
ROLL CALL VOTE: Morrow - Yea, Yerrington - Yea, Corrie - Yea, Tolsma - Yea
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
Kingsford: Is there a motion on the decision?
Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I would move that the City Council of Meridian approve the conditional
use permit requested by the applicant for property described in the application set forth in
the findings of fact and conclusions of law.
Yerrington: Second
Kingsford: Moved by Walt, second by Max to approve the conditional use permit as set
forth in the findings of fact and conclusions of law, all those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
Corrie: He did have a request that number 8 be eliminated, can he come back later about
this vehicle access if he wants to do that?
Kingsford: I think that is appropriate, we are talking about something that certainly Bell
Walker is not talking about at least now and that is 2 ways. I think that has been a rumor
it might very well come to pass and in the event that it does I think you need to come back
and we will address that, the access to the north.
ITEM #13: KAT SHUMWAY: DISCUSSION OF PILOT RECYCLING PROGRAM:
Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I met with Kat on Monday evening and the outcome of that meeting
was that she will make a presentation to us but because of the length of tonight's agenda
she asked that it be postponed until some date in the future and that she would make
contact. I was supposed to talk to Will and she was going to try to call also obviously
Meridian City Council
May 16,1995
Page 60
(inaudible).
ITEM #14: REQUEST FOR TIME EXTENSION FOR FILING FINAL PLAT FOR
FIELDSTONE MEADOWS NO.5:
Kingsford: Does the Council have any question about that?
Corrie: Mr. Mayor, I guess my question, their extension, they don't have a time, do we set
it as a year?
Kingsford: Is the applicant present? What was their request Shari do you know was it for
one year?
Morrow: So moved
Corrie: Second
Kingsford: Moved by Walt, second by Bob to approve the extension of final plat for
Fieldstone Meadows NO.5 for one year, all those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
ITEM #15: RONALD VAN AUKER: REQUEST FOR TEMPORARY HOOK UP TO A
SEPTIC SYSTEM:
Kingsford: Is Ron's representative here, do you want to explain that?
Miller: I am Brad Miller, Mr. Van Auker apologizes for not being here he had another
engagement.
Kingsford: I saw him out there he just didn't want to stay that long.
Miller: No, he had to go somewhere else. What we have proposed is to build a 50,000
square foot warehouse on Commercial Court right next to Albertson's Sundry Center.
Upon submitting the plans we received word that we would not be granted the permit
because it would be hooked up to a septic system since there was not sewer in that area
yet. We are currently in the process of getting the sewer over that direction as of last week
I met with the Albertson's folks, with Jim Nelson, John Jackson over there, Mr. Van Auker
also with Elixir Industries and we have formed a little group to bring the sewer over in that
direction. We will be hiring an engineer tomorrow and within a month we will have a
preliminary plan on extending that sewer. We would like to obtain permission to hook up
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May 16,1995
Page 61
to a septic system for a temporary period. We would imagine having the sewer available
for hook up about one year from now. The building would be finished in November
probably so we would really only be hooked up to a septic for maybe 6 months to a year
at the most. It is our objective to get on the sewer system as soon as possible for funding
our lender prefers that we be on a sewer system rather than on a septic system. This is our
first choice but with the demand in the market place we would like to get the building up
and get a tenant in there.
Kingsford: You are talking about a warehouse and you are just talking about a restroom
facility for that?
Miller: Correct, the tenant we are talking to now would have 8 employees they would less
they discharge less than I do in my house with my wife and 4 kids.
Kingsford: You live in the City limits, we are going to have to up yours. We discussed
some sort of bond or a surety that be done which was our concern about making sure that
the sewer be extended. And granting the septic system might preclude that. Do you have
a proposal on that?
Miller: We, Ron and I discussed that briefly. We would proposed that you take our word
for it that we have the incentive necessary to get the sewer system in. We have the funds
available which we assume will be around a million dollars between all the partners
involved there to extend the sewer. It is our objective to get the sewer over there as soon
as possible. We want to build out all of those things on the corner of Franklin and Eagle
as soon as possible. We have a number of tenants who want to be in there immediately
so it is to our benefit to bring the sewer over as quickly as possible.
Kingsford: I think probably at a minimum it would be in the City's best interest to require
a hook up fee at this point even though you hook to the sewer so that is out of the way and
we don't have to fight with your new owner or tenant.
Miller: I don't have a problem with that at all.
Kingsford: What is the Council's pleasure?
Morrow Although I am comfortable with Mr. Van Auker's word that this will in fact happen
there are some other partners involved in this that may have some impact. I would think
at the very least it would be in the taxpayer's and the City's best interest to require a bond
for extension of the end of the existing sewer to this property. And therefore ensuring that
if the consortium of other people fall apart than this (inaudible) candidly we can set time
constraints for the temporary septic system and if the group falls apart and a year from
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May 16, 1995
Page 62
now there is no sewer trunk line built for whatever the reason than what do we do take an
owner that had nothing to do with this application and shut him down? I think that would
also be there to protect the interest of the owner. So that would be a point of discussion
from my standpoint.
Kingsford: Any other comments? I think that Ron was agreeable to that when we
discussed it earlier. I don't think that it was necessarily his preference. Walt's point is well
made, if we are just (inaudible) than a consortium. Is there a motion?
Morrow: Having said that, I would make a motion that we grant Ronald Van Auker a
temporary septic system to last no longer than May 16, 1996 and that we require a pre-
payment of the hook up fees at point of building permit and that we require a bond
completion bond for that portion of the sewer trunk line as it extends from where it currently
exists to this property.
Yerrington: Second
Kingsford: Moved by Walt, second by Max to approve of the temporary hook up to septic
system that it approved through May 16, 1996, that they pay a hook up fee to the sewer
system at this time and that they provide a bond to extend the sewer from its current
termination to this site, all those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
ITEM #16: WRIGHT BROTHERS/CESCO: REQUEST FOR A TEMPORARY HOOK UP
TO A SEPTIC SYSTEM:
Vance: My name is Michael Vance, during 1994 an annexation took place generally over
on the intersection of Eagle Road and Overland in the area of the Par 3 golf course, you
perhaps knew it as the Peck annexation. There was a whole list of conditions of approval
that went with that annexation. They mainly had to do with a development agreement.
Most of that having to do with a subdivision. Our client is going to hopefully buy the entire
piece and place a heavy equipment sales and service facility on the site. They would take
up the entire site. Unfortunately the site is located on the south side of the freeway, the
interstate and the sewer is located on the north side of the interstate. There are however,
there has been discussions over the last month or two about bringing the sewer
underneath the freeway. The sewer line has to be bored underneath the interstate. What
we are requesting the Council approve is a temporary septic tank solution so that Cesco
might be able to move onto this site, the entire site, the entire site that was covered under
this annexation. Unfortunately I can't give you a time limit for this. My alternative to this
short of a bond which I am not sure we could even cover what we have done in the past
Meridian City Council
May 16,1995
Page 63
is do a recordable agreement that runs with the land, it runs not only with the present
owner but with future owners, and that agreement basically states that first of all they have
to hook up to the sewer. They have to enter into a pay back agreement either with the City
or the developer who ends up bringing that line underneath. The septic tank has to be
removed and it has to comply with Central District Health Department requirements and
those sorts of things. I gave Shari a copy of that agreement or a draft and I don't know if
it made into your packet or not. That is certainly a thought that we could do. I am not sure
how we would do the bonding. We would certainly agree to paying the sewer hook up fee
if it was required. Basically the size of the facility, while looking big on the outside really
has a couple of bath rooms and a probably a small kitchen facility. I believe I gave public
works a number of fixture units that were equivalent to about 2 residential homes. So with
that I would request that we be allowed to have a septic system on a temporary basis for
this Cesco facility. I would be happy to answer any questions?
Kingsford: Questions of the Council?
Yerrington: How long of a period of time would you want it?
Vance: Well, once the facility is in there, this is the difficult part, once the facility is there
how do we determine what a legitimate period of time is. My own thoughts are that I don't
think there is any question the sewer is going to come underneath the interstate and that
there is property located directly east of the Peck parcel already has I think it is a 15 or 20
foot utility easement where sewer is supposed to come down to Overland Road and then
go down toward Eagle Road. That is a very difficult question to ask because if we say it
is for a year or 2 years or 6 months and that doesn't occur what do we do? I think with the
recorded agreement and payment of the connection fee I don't think there is any question
that you could certainly force the owners of the property into hooking up to the sewer the
moment that it is there, in fact hooking onto it as it goes by and as soon as it is tested and
accepted by the City. It is just the horrendous cost of trying to get one sewer service onto
the opposite side there. There is a sewer line that exists, I think it is just to the west of the
Par 3 golf course now and they are not allowing any further service into that line now so
it has to be an alternate line brought over. One that I think is being brought over to the St.
Luke's Hospital.
Kingsford: Any other questions? Is the Council prepared to take action?
Morrow: I would like to have some comments by City Engineer Smith.
Smith: Mr. Mayor and Council members, there aren't any plans at this point to extend the
sewer under the interstate. There has been an awful lot of discussion from property
owners on that side of the interstate concerning the sewer availability thereof. But at this
Meridian City Council
May 16, 1995
Page 64
point there are no plans, there have been no proposals. We don't know for sure where the
sewer is going to be, we do know that the facility plan shows a 10 inch diameter sewer line
extending along the boundary line between this parcel and the Thomas parcel to Overland
Road. It also shows sewer line extending along the south boundary of the interstate off
ramp to the south and east. Beyond that there are no plans, there are no time periods
established. It is a crap shoot at this point as to when that happens. I think it is going to
happen with all of the activity that seems to be going on over there including the mall
proposal that sewer line will have to cross the interstate. The applicant is correct that once
sewer line is adjacent or within 300 feet of his property they will connect, that is an
ordinance requirement, they shall connect. At that point they would be required to pay a
late comer fee as would be assessable to the construction of that line also. The only thing
this does is just like the same conversation that the Mayor and I and Councilman Morrow
had with Van Auker's in terms of taking a piece of property out of the picture for
contribution to the extension of sewer line or the cost of that extension. But it is a relatively
small parcel compared to the other pieces over there. Gary Voigt's parcel to the south of
Overland Road is about 90 some acres, 300 lots, this is the sewer line that they would
need for that parcel to be developed.
Morrow: I guess part of my question would also be is that our conditions of annexation and
zoning what do we, did we spell out any conditions in those annexation and zoning
documents that indicated that sewer was a requirement of development.
Kingsford: I think that is why he is asking for a variance.
Vance: I will read it to you here, it is actually the first one that the applicant will be required
to connect to Meridian water and sewer and resolve how the water and sewer mains will
serve the land. The water is not an issue because it is there and it can be extended. That
is really the purpose of my request tonight is to ask for a variance or a relaxation of the first
paragraph such that we can, we can comply with most of the other ones even though they
deal with subdivision issues which we are not subdividing. We are not asking for anything
it is just a relaxation of that first paragraph. There is no question they want the sewer.
Morrow: This is the entire parcel of ground?
Vance: The entire parcel of ground, I don't know if you have seen, Mayor may I?
(Inaudible) it is not going to he subdivided, it is not going to be cut up. Really most of the
issues that we have dealt with during the development agreement plan or a lot of them will
be taken care of. There is a ditch going through that will be tiled but most of the other
issues really deal with the subdivision as it is developed and there is no final plat there is
nothing.
Meridian City Council
May 16, 1995
Page 65
Kingsford: Certainly I think this is a continuation of the land uses in that corridor of
Overland and the freeway. I think we wi II miss an opportunity if Counci I doesn't grant this
temporary variance. I know for certain that the applicant is looking at other parcels in
Meridian that have been unsatisfactory for a variety of reasons. I think that is a good use
for that property.
Morrow To add to that I don't have a problem with any of that. I do think that we need to
put some safe guards into the proposal so that it is very well understood by all parties
today and in the future that when the sewer gets there (inaudible).
Kingsford: I haven't read it but I like his agreement that he spoke to. I think that is a fairly
good safeguard. It is a little different than what we were talking about with Mr. Van Auker
because he is talking about a number of parcels that are going to be in his group
developing, this is a single parcel with a single owner.
Morrow Well, coupled with the fact here is we have a project here that is literally a long
ways away from the sewer and that doesn't apply in the Van Auker case.
Smith: Mr. Mayor, a couple of things, the house that is presently on the parcel is that going
to be removed? Okay, the second thing is the location, do you know where the location
of the water is at this time?
Vance: It is my understanding that it is very close the to Par 3, we initially thought it was
at Locust Grove and Overland and have since found out it that it is some 200 to 300 feet
along Overland.
Smith: It is on the east boundary of the driving range, so you would be required to pick it
up at that point and extend it to your east boundary and it is a 12 inch diameter water line.
Vance: That is correct.
Smith: I was wondering, the other thing, the conditions of approval for this, Shari was
mentioning that a development agreement would be required for the project. That those
agreement conditions for future connection could be part of that agreement then too.
Vance: Would there be a late comers or what I call a pay back agreement allowed on the
12 inch water line?
Smith: Yes, there are provisions in the ordinance for that late comers agreement, you
probably should get a copy of those and review them so you understand what conditions
those are. Thank you.
Meridian City Council
May 16,1995
Page 66
Kingsford: Is Council prepared to make a motion?
Morrow: One more comment, in conjunction with the development agreement you are
aware in the City of Meridian we require an occupancy certificates and subject to
completion of the project for our occupancy.
Vance: Well aware, we have been through it many times.
Kingsford: Is there a motion?
Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I would request that or I would move that we grant the request for a
temporary hook up to a septic system for the Cesco dealership as described in the
application and that as soon as sewer service is available that the property be required to
hook up to the sewer service, that the original hook up fees would be paid at time of
building permit, and that any late comers charges or additional fees with respect to the
cost of that trunk line be assessed at time of hook up, to and including a development
agreement executed by the applicant and City of Meridian.
Corrie: Second
Kingsford: Moved by Walt, second by Bob to approve the request for a temporary hook
up to a septic system for Cesco Enterprises, requiring the hook up fee to be paid at the
time of building permit that they be willing to pay a late comer's agreement into the
development of that line and that they enter into development agreement with the City at
the time of permit, before the time of permit, all those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
ITEM #17: BOLO'S PUB AND EATERY: REQUEST FOR BEER AND WINE LICENSE:
Kingsford: Chief, do you have any problem with that?
(Inaudible)
Kingsford: Entertain a motion to approve the beer and wine license for Bolo's Pub and
Eatery.
Yerrington: So moved
Corrie: Second
Meridian City Council
May 16,1995
Page 67
Kingsford: Moved by Max, second by Ron to approve the beer and wine license for Bolo's
Pub and Eatery, all those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
ITEM #18: TEXACO TRAVEL CENTER: REQUEST FOR BEER AND WINE LICENSE:
Kingsford: Any problem with that Chief?
(Inaudible)
Kingsford: Entertain a motion on that.
Tolsma: So moved
Yerrington: Second
Kingsford: Moved by Ron, second by Max to approve of the beer and wine license for
Texaco Travel Center, we did by the way get their County license they turned that in today,
all those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
ITEM #19: ROBERT MONTGOMERY: PRESENTATION OF PROPOSED STORAGE
FACILITY WITHIN MERIDIAN CITY AREA OF IMPACT:
Montgomery: It has been a long evening so I will be very brief, I am here, my name is Bob
Montgomery and I am here on behalf of Steve and Lavon White (End of Tape) Mr. Bob
Unger and he indicated to us before Ada County would with the review of the project that
they needed some indication from the City of Meridian as to their feelings about this
because the Comprehensive Plan at the site of their property I believe calls for a single
family residences. So, Mr. Unger suggested that we visit with the Council and get some
indication from them or at least an indication that they didn't object to a review by Ada
County to proceed onward with the project. So, Mr. Steve Wiess is here and he would like
to explain very briefly what the project is and what they are planning.
Weirs: I will try to make this as brief as I possibly can. On your Comprehensive Plan you
will notice on the right hand side up near the outer border there is a red mark next to one
of your I believe it is a proposed park. That is our property, it is located at 2500 North
Eagle Road. It consists of 12 acres. It is a very irregular shape and we are severely limited
by the slough on the north side and an irrigation lateral on the south side regarding
Meridian City Council
May 16,1995
Page 68
ingress/egress. We would not be accessible to the properties on either side of behind us
because they are literally the first spot from the division of the slough to an irrigation
lateral. And it is very narrow at the back of the property and very wide towards the front.
The second page is the aerial photograph taken by the Idaho Transportation Department
in March 1994, again outlining the property boundaries that we currently have. You can
see the development in the area. What we want to do is provide a service for the
continuing growth of the Meridian area and allow people to meet with the covenants of the
subdivisions and such of the single family dwellings around us to have a place to park
there excess vehicles, motor homes, boats. It is excess storage units instead of filling their
garage and parking on the street they would have another place to locate those extra
items. The third page if you unfold it is a preliminary landscape. Shari indicated that there
would need to be some extensive landscaping. Idaho Transportation Department does
have plans in fiscal year 1996 to widen that section of highway. They have already
purchased 70 feet from us for the entire length of our frontage which is I believe 212 feet,
nearly 213. Idaho Power, unbeknownst to Ada County was quite surprised and somewhat
dismayed over the fact that they are running a major transmission line down that section
of road. They evidently indicated they thought it was possibly going to be a buried line,
Anyway we are limited on the constraints of the irrigation canals, the slough, the progress
that is coming our direction as to what we can do with that property. Being as it is such a
small parcel of ground single family dwellings after we put in street and curb and gutter
and utilities and what not wouldn't be a viable option for us.
Kingsford: Roughly how many acres are you looking at there?
Weirs: The entire parcel that we own is 12 acres, what we are looking at doing is
developing 7 acres in possibly 2 different stages. We would put in an entirety of 600
storage individual storage units along that, that includes RV and outside covered storage
for different vehicles and what not.
Kingsford: That is your intended use for the whole parcel?
Weirs: Yes, right now we have a plan of doing the 7 acres in possibly within the next 5
to 10 years, we would go ahead and extend it on back. Currently we have a residence on
that property, 3000 square foot house with a tote car garage and the remaining 5 acres
until such time as they are ready to develop the rest of it would remain a rural setting we
might put one steer out there on grass or something like that. I do have a preliminary, it
didn't get into your little thing here but I do have a preliminary outline of what the entire
land would be consumed of if you would like to see that?
Kingsford: Go ahead.
Meridian City Council
May 16,1995
Page 69
Weirs: This is the entire piece of ground, the boundary lines, the slough and this is how
much of it we would be developing right away. The remainder of the residence and the
pasture back here (inaudible).
Morrow: Type of construction of the buildings? If we looked around Ada County and the
cities in Ada County what would this project most look like in terms of building
construction?
Weirs: Most of the storage facilities in Ada County are a frame with a metal covering, we
are looking at doing it out of block or concrete (inaudible) so that it is a more permanent
more pleasing, easier to design as far as making it easy on the eye and what not for
people to come by and to rent and what not.
Morrow: Based on what you are saying these would be very similar to the ones that are
being built currently on State Street?
Weirs: Yes, very much so, the buildings of course would be much longer and what not
because we do have more room to work with but yes they would be very up class.
Morrow: Just east of Collister?
Weirs: Yes, they would all be surrounded with a cyclops security fence, we would go
ahead with that all the way around our property line. Problems we have right now with
other types of developments that we have considered you know we owned this property
since 1969, I grew up on it, I used to hunt and fish around it, you can't do that any more.
Livestock is a problem because Eagle Road is going to become such a busy thoroughfare
that if we did have an animal get out onto the highway the liability would be atrocious. The
surrounding neighborhoods have got dogs and what not that come in and attack young
calves in the spring. I don't know if I should say this but I have shot several dogs in the
years past before there were many homes around. As far as growing a crop it is a very
small parcel of ground, (inaudible) farmers are hard to come by. Things are changing we
can't put in a sewer system we can't put in water because it is not available and this would
be the way for the property to help pay for itself, increase the Meridian City's tax base in
the years ahead and a benefit to the future development of the area.
Corrie: Have you run this by the Fire department yet?
Weirs: I talked to Mr. Voss about it because I needed to talk to him about what type of fire
protection, fire suppression would need to be detailed into the plans as we go along. He
indicated that intemal sprinkler system would not be necessary. That there would need to
be fire hydrants with a minimum of 1500 gallons per minute for the fire trucks in case of
Meridian City Council
May 16,1995
Page 70
some sort of horrendous disaster. But he did indicated also that if we discussed it with the
fire department overseeing Councilor whatever it was that he was talking about at the time
there could be a possibility they could waive it until such time as the City water did come
our way. Now if you look in your Comprehensive Plan half mile north of us on the south
west corner, well actually I guess it would be the northeast corner of Eagle and Ustick
Road you do have a proposed well to go in there for City water. He kind of indicated they
might be able to work something out if we get your approval, if Ada County is willing to
work with us that we could go ahead an stem in all the systems and everything and then
when the water came by we could just hook up to it.
Kingsford: Either of those ditches that are adjacent to you are they live ditches year
round?
Weirs: The Slough on the north side had been a live ditch for years, the last 3 years it is
dry from before Thanksgiving until May. I don't know if it is because the water table has
dropped, I actually had Health and Welfare tell me that at one time the water table out
there was 2 feet deep and our house sits 4 feet in the ground and I said I don't think so.
It has been live in the past and we used to water livestock out of it and it has been dry in
the last 3 years in the winter time.
Corrie: You will probably have to run that by Rural fire and I don't know what they will tell
you.
Kingsford: Of course that is one of the things that Ada County gives them approval that
they will have to meet.
Weirs: An option we may have is to drill a well that will pump whatever required water.
Basically what we are asking for right now is a preliminary (inaudible) from the Council that
would indicate in a letter form to Ada County Planning and Zoning that you wouldn't
necessarily stand in the way for us to go ahead with this project.
Kingsford: Any further questions of the Council? Is there a motion?
Smith: Mr. Mayor, I would just like to make a comment that the South Slough is one of our
designated locations for a trunk sewer. We don't at this point know where that sewer is
going to be exactly other than the Comprehensive Plan shows the trunk sewer route.
Whether it is on this gentleman's property or on the other side of the slough I don't know.
But in terms of locating your buildings I would request that you give consideration to
enough space so that a sewer line could go through if necessary. At least the option is
available to be located there. Typically we try to stay within the easement that has been
designated by Nampa Meridian Irrigation District who maintains that ditch, I don't know
Meridian City Council
May 16, 1995
Page 71
what that width is at that point, it varies up and down the ditches.
Weirs: On the Slough Meridian I don't believe has an easement they just asked if they
could enter our property to cut the trees and to drudge out the area that is plugged. On the
south side of our property where the irrigation lateral is there is a lane that goes down on
our property that they do maintain. That is another problem with the progress of the area
as we have a lot of people running their dogs and riding their horses and riding bicycles
and motorcycles up and do'Ml that lane and again we have a liability problem there if they
trip and fall through a gofer hole and break their leg they are going to sue me not Ada
County or Nampa Meridian Irrigation. So again this would fence this material, it would no
longer be irrigated on that front portion that I showed you here on this map. The remaining
back portion would still be accessible to Nampa Meridian for maintenance on those
surfaces.
Kingsford: I think Gary's point is we would like to have access and be able to put a sewer
line there.
Weirs: At this point in time we are looking at possibly having a driveway back to the home
that is there right now. If we go ahead vvlth possible purchase of another piece of property
adjacent to us if they are willing there will be a 25 foot driveway down the side there that
vvlll be paved and you can put your sewer line in under that. When we develop on it will
not be a problem.
Corrie: What minor change is required (inaudible).
Weirs: You have single dwelling homes in that area and we are going to commercial. I
am assuming it is a commercial set up. You have on your comprehensive plan you have
mixed use and commercial within possibly a 1000 feet of us on the north and the south.
It is just again a small parcel of ground that if somebody were to buy it and try to develop
it and put homes on it, it wouldn't pay.
Kingsford: I don't know so long as it is green I don't know that it necessarily would be a
violation of our comprehensive plan. The request is for a letter from the Council to Ada
County P & Z, is there a motion?
Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I would move that we send a letter to the Ada County P & Z with a
favorable recommendation subject to a couple of conditions. The one of course being the
completion of the screening and secondly that Ada County P & Z as a condition of
approval stipulate some future easement area for sewer line access as per Mr. Smith's
recommendations. That is a decision that he needs to make.
Meridian City Council
May 16, 1995
Page 72
Tolsma: Second
Kingsford: Moved by Walt, second by Ron to approve or to write a letter of favorable
recommendation to Ada County Planning and Zoning with 2 stipulations one that have
adequate screening and two that there be provided future easement on South Slough for
sewer extension, all those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
ITEM #20: TERRY ADAMS:
Kingsford: Mr. Adams is the current holder of the Foreign Trade Zone in Meridian. We
have had some discussion with Port of Lewiston and he wants to make a presentation to
Council with regard to granting that transfer to Port of Lewiston for use of the Foreign
Trade Zone. I will let him speak to that issue.
Adams: Thank you, first I thought it would be in order to do a quick review of the Foreign
Trade Zone. One, the goal is to assist existing international business by providing an area
outside of the US jurisdiction so that any raw products that are imported in the United
States are not assessed a duty so long as those goods are used in the manufacture of a
finished good which is then being exported. Second, there was an assumption that the
real potential in this area lay in the ability to provide this capability to existing businesses
that their existing location not expecting them to build a new facility just to come inside of
this zone so to speak. And that we would do so by granting special purpose sub-zone
licenses to those existing businesses. There was a further assumption that any facility that
was physically placed within the Treasure Valley Business Park which is designated in the
original application as the geographical boundary that any facility would most likely be in
the form or an administration building only. It was a further assumption made that I
believed that we did not see that just because this was zone was granted that we would
see an immediate rush to participate in that. I think that last assumption has proven very
much true. Currently I have been approached by the Port of Lewiston and also Inland 465.
Inland 465 is a warehousing venture a limited partnership comprised of Phost Maritime
which operates the barges from Lewiston to Portland. Lewiston Grain Growers and Ken
Cook who is alias manager of West Best Trucking based in Lewiston. The Port of Lewiston
is serviced by Union Pacific and the Burlington Northern. Terminal #2 of which the
warehouse is a part is 150 acres consisting of barge docks, container transload facilities,
there are 10 truck lines and 11 international container companies represented there. The
warehousing facility is 150,000 square feet of multi-module warehousing. Both Inland 465
and the Port of Lewiston are interested in obtaining the Foreign Trade Zone status. The
granteeship of an FTZ I think needs to be understood is really not a commodity this isn't
something that is sold such as real estate. It appears we have some options here, one
Meridian City Council
May 16, 1995
Page 73
obvious is if Lewiston wants a foreign trade zone let them go apply for one. They have
looked into that. They had some misconceptions, first of all by national law and national
foreign trade zones board currently you cannot cross state lines. They went to a foreign
trade zone in Butte, Montana to try and obtain some kind of operating agreement from
Montana, that physically is not possible. That is not an option, so for them to obtain a
foreign trade zone there are not very many ways. If they go through the same process we
did for Meridian the first obstacle is the very reason you have a zone in Meridian and that
is that the number one criteria that it be a US customs port of entry. We had to go back to
the Idaho Statute in the first place because there was a mistake in the way the enabling
legislation was written which allowed only Lewiston to have a foreign trade zone. Which
was a direct contradiction to the law. So we went back and cleaned that up so that any
public entity has the right to apply for a foreign trade zone so long as they are US customs
port of entry. So Lewiston was automatically out of the vvrinkle right there unless they want
to fund for having a customs official there. Meridian can develop the zone, the zone was
approved in February of 1993 so more than 3 years have passed from when the grant was
issued. In 1991 there was a sunset clause put in the enabling legislation for the zone
stating you have 5 years from the date the grant is issued to activate the zone. So right
now zones that were approved in 1991 and currently still remain in an inactive status there
seems to be a lot of interest right now and there is a lot of activity at the foreign trade
zones national level to activate those zones because they will expire in 1996. Real istically
I would anticipate probably a 6 month span in there from the time you applied to activate
the zone to where that was accomplished. Realistically I think we have used up roughly
half of the time available to have something happen. The question is, is something going
to happen to make that happen, do we see a change coming along. Personally I think not.
Another option would be to apply to the foreign trade zone's board for remote non-
contiguous site at Lewiston in which Meridian would remain the grantee. The problem with
this is customs supervision. They have what is called the 60 minute 90 mile rule. And that
is where Meridian now qualifies, technically we are not here in Meridian inside customs
jurisdiction but we are within the 60/90 mile rule. Lewiston is a far stretch of that,
realistically that is not an option. Customs will not bite off on supervising a zone that is 275
miles away from Boise. Another option and the one that we feel is the most logical would
be to modify the original application to change the site to Lewiston. Some things would
have to happen. First of all, all parties involved Lewiston, Meridian, myself as the operator,
from the Governor's office, all of the Washington strength we can muster would have to
be signed off on a mutual consent to have this happen. Lewiston will fund what they call
a user fee based customs office. In other words they would front the total cost of the
customs official. Right now that estimated cost of the first year is around $75,000 and then
it comes dOIMl the year after that in some steps of which no one is prepared to say exactly
what that is. The initial is somewhere in the neighborhood of $75,000 for the first year.
The marketing efforts of the zone would be assumed jointly between the Port of Lewiston,
Inland 465 and Service Transportation Inc. I think the harmony of that marketing efforts
Meridian City Council
May 16,1995
Page 74
with these groups to market all of the available services being barge, rail, warehouse,
trucking, to domestic and Canadian companies might be an area that we seem to be
lacking here and that is having some namely money behind some marketing efforts. I think
one of the questions we have seen at this point is if that were to happen what happens,
what would the affect be to this area for obtaining foreign trade zone status if the grantee
is now Lewiston? If the original assumption is correct that development along this line
would come in the form of special purpose sub-zones to individual companies that can
really justify and utilize that capability then nothing changes. The order in which sub-
zones are applied for and approved at a national level starts first with the closest general
purpose zone within a state. This still is only one general purpose zone in the state. If
there is an attempt to cross state lines then any general purpose zone can block that from
happening. What I would question is why would it be in anyone's interest irregardless of
where the general purpose zone was located to deny any special purpose application.
That would just seem to me to be opposite of the intent. So what we have asked the
Council to do it to give the Mayor authority to sign off an agreement to transfer this
authority to Lewiston. Any questions?
Kingsford: In terms of that history, I think Mr. Adams glossed over, Service Transportation
of which he is the President is the entity that put together the foreign trade zone here in
the first place. All the bills to do that were paid by Mr. Adams and Service Transportation.
We have an applicant that wants to use it, we are looking at a possible corridor that maybe
this will end up benefitting Meridian and the Treasure Valley. If it doesn't happen it is kind
of apparent to me that we are never going to see any foreign trade zone use here. This
gives and opportunity to Mr. Adams to possibly get a return on investment for the time that
they spent in the legislature and all of the funds they had to go into getting this application
in the first place. Again I think the main concern that I had and logically the Council would
is where does that leave us. We don't have anything necessarily now but in the event that
something does stem from that and than we can be a satellite or what is the appropriate
term?
Adams: Technically it is a special purpose sub-zone.
Kingsford: So we would still have the ability to do what we could do now, I don't know as
we are necessarily giving anything up but it gives Mr. Adams the opportunity to exercise
what he spent quite a lot of money and time in creating. We had a meeting 2 weeks ago
Terry with Inland 465 and Port of Lewiston and some people up at the Canadian border
that have, at least feel like they can utilize a trade zone. At least from my perspective it
doesn't hurt the City of Meridian and it has the potential to help Mr. Adams a bit.
Morrow: I think there is a bigger issue here as I see it, the bigger issue really is that we can
do the auxiliary place but if I understand this concept right the City of Lewiston which is in
Meridian City Council
May 16,1995
Page 75
the State of Idaho has a legitimate chance at, you bring in raw materials, you process
those and then re-export them so it is a product enhancement the very thing that Jim
Hawkins and his folk at the Department of Commerce have emphasized over the last 4 or
5 years. We don't have a real good shot at something like that when you have the
Columbia and the Snake River and plenty of barge traffic. Those folk have an opportunity
to monopolize on that and increase the economic well being of that area. And so it seems
to me like it makes a heck of a lot of sense to have this thing up there as the headquarters
and as part of this agreement we get satellite status.
Kingsford: Plus it allows us, I think the one potential that we have is a corridor to that Port
of Lewiston and I think personally the only way we are going to end up using it might be
through that corridor.
Morrow: You mean Highway 55?
Kingsford: Correct.
Tolsma: (Inaudible)
Kingsford: I think that was discussed but they never really expressed a whole lot of interest
in it. And likewise other companies, we discussed that at some length through the years
and again I think I've got to emphasize the point that if this isn't exercised in that time
period it is gone anyway.
Morrow: For the entire State?
Kingsford: Correct, it can be re-applied for.
Corrie: Did I understand you to say that you had to get an approval from Meridian and you
had to go to Washington to get all these other people involved?
Kingsford: To get the trade, what is the guys name and his position?
Adams: John Du Panty is the Chairman of the National Foreign Trade Zone's Board and
what we feel like is just realistically in order to have a chance for this thing to succeed
without going back from the ground zero process all over again only now maybe Lewiston
in an identical, that the best chance we have to do that is to bring all the muscle we
possibly can into show a unanimous agreement in this thing. I for one, gosh we couldn't
find a better climate than we have right now, heavens it just doesn't get any better from a
business climate. I think we have every opportunity to really put a good concentrated
argument directly to the Chairman. This, I don't care how anybody else has done it in the
Meridian City Council
May 16, 1995
Page 76
past, these are the geographical problems we have in Idaho. We can show unanimous
support from this from tip to toe. Therefore your honor do it this way. I think if you have
a minute, I know you have had a long day, probably not too many of you got up at 4:30 this
morning like I did. It is interesting to take a look at what is happening and I think some of
the opportunities we have in Idaho right now there are 2 factors that seem to be driving a
Canadian to Mexico trade corridor. One that I have been involved in for probably 4 or 5
years now is generally called the, it doesn't matter it slips my mind, but that is a corridor
mainly originating in Montana. The traffic, the logistics of Canada is very similar to Idaho
and basically to the nation is the east west corridor is very strong, north south is bad, it is
non-existent almost. Canada is the same way, so they have a real problem getting goods
into Mexico. The corridor that they have been talking about for several years now is going
to through Montana and basically through the 1-15 Corridor, taking in Utah, Colorado and
down that way. Virtually eliminating this whole part of the State, the problem we run into
is they are trying to bring into uniformity a weight law of 135,000 pounds in Canada as
opposed to some states in that sector only 80,000 pounds. I think that is a gigantic project
and I don't know that I will live long enough to see that happen. On the other hand, if you
utilize a quarter from Lewiston, you can affect the same Canadian provinces and basically
you are looking at Alberta and the western part of British Columbia because the western
part of British Columbia is basically a bastard child to British Columbia. They don't
participate in the 1-5 corridor. So by utilizing a rail route from Canada to Lewiston and
Barge traffic from there to Portland you have got a potential for a real winner. The only
thing that is stopping that from happening right now is the 30 mile section of track from
basically the Burlington Northern has abandoned beginning in 1980 connecting Moscow
to Lewiston. They have been fighting trying to get that re-instated for years. I think right
now we have the opportunity to really pull some muscle together and make that happen.
If we look at half a dozen steam ship companies servicing Portland, Seattle and the literally
millions and billions of tons of freight they move running east on the Burlington Northern
you are talking Potlatch that has jumped on board just as recently as the last couple of
weeks to try and encourage that to happen. I think there is some significant force that can
be exercised on the Burlington Northern for a mere 30 mile section of track. I really expect
to see that happen and I think that is probably critical to make the Canadian thing happen.
So anyway, it just looks like a really exciting time to me to at least get something
happening with this Foreign Trade Zone as far as Meridian and this entire valley is
concerned. I see that you sacrifice nothing, part of the agreement that I have with these
folks at Lewiston is I will sign off on the agreement only if I continue to operate the zone.
I can guarantee you that as long as I am involved in that I would welcome any opportunity
to do business back home. For that matter I don't see why you couldn't if you really felt
like to get the level of comfort you need in this issue I don't think you would have any
problem at all with formally writing a stipulation that avenue remain open to you.
Crookston: I just had one thought that came to my mind Terry and that is you indicated
Meridian City Council
May 16, 1995
Page 77
when you talked about Lewiston applying for a remote non-contiguous site and that would
be very difficult for Lewiston to do because they are 275 miles away. Doesn't that same
thing apply if Lewiston is the Foreign Trade Zone and Meridian applies to be a remote non-
contiguous zone?
Kingsford: No, because we have a customs office in Boise.
Morrow Mr. Mayor I would move that we authorize the Mayor to conduct the negotiations
with respect to the Foreign Trade Zone on our behalf.
Tolsma: Second
Kingsford: Moved by Walt, second by Ron to authorize the Mayor to conduct the issues
of the Foreign Trade Zone on behalf of the Council, all all those in favor?
Crookston: If it is required does that include the Clerk's signature?
Tolsma: Withdraw the second
Morrow: I withdraw the motion and I wish the motion to read that the City Council of
Meridian authorizes the Mayor to negotiate the Foreign Trade Zone items on its behalf and
that should contracts be signed that they be signed by the Mayor and attested to by the
City Clerk.
Tolsma: Second
Kingsford: Moved by Walt, second by Ron to authorize the Mayor to enter into negotiations
on the Foreign Trade Zone on behalf of the Council and to have him sign contracts and
authorize the City Clerk to attest, all those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
Adams: Thank you gentlemen, that entire everyone has completed that sign off we are
waiting for you so we will present that original document to you so I will call you.
ITEM #21: BEDFORD PLACE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT
Kingsford: Wayne did you get the return of that from Mr. Smith this afternoon?
Crookston: I did not, I talked to their office, I tried to get a hold of Gene Smith and he was
not in the office at that time. The secretary thought he might have been with Mr. Turnbull,
Meridian City Council
May 16, 1995
Page 78
I did talk to another Smith, Brian Smith and he said that he would try and communicate to
Gene as best he could. He asked me how long I would be in the office and I said I would
be there until 6:00 and I left the office about 6:15 and I did not hear anything back. As I
indicated I did not fax my material to Gene Smith until approximately 2:00 today.
Turnbull: Gene and I were in a meeting at the Building Contractor's Association from 4:00
to 6:00. When I left Gene gave me a call we live approximately in the same neighborhood
he had the fax copy that Mr. Crookston faxed to the Hubble office he had that delivered to
Gene's home, and Gene called to tell me it was there. Hubble Engineering had also made
the corrections that Wayne requested in the development agreement and I brought the
copy with me here. It has been corrected as Wayne has requested.
Kingsford: I would entertain a motion to authorize the Mayor to sign that development
agreement conditioned upon Counsel's review and make sure it does meet those
comments.
Yerrington: So moved
Corrie: Second
Kingsford: Moved by Max, second by Bob to authorize the Mayor to sign the development
agreement for Bedford Place Subdivision subject to the Counselor's quick review of that
and make sure it complies with his findings, all those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
Morrow: Mr. Mayor, point of order, I think the City Clerk has to attest to that signature.
ITEM #22: DEPARTMENT REPORTS:
Smith: Mr. Mayor and Council members on May 10th we had a bid opening for pump and
control equipment at Well No. 12 as part of our rehab project on that well. We had 2
bidders, Caron Pump Water Systems Inc. and Riverside Inc. and I have handed out to you
a copy of the bid summary. Also attached, let me continue on. The apparent low bid at
that time was Riverside at $75,350.99. Attorney Crookston took the bids with him or I
believe Bruce Freckleton delivered them to Wayne because there was some concern
about the responsiveness about the bid, each one of the bids. And Wayne (inaudible) the
bids and attached to that summary sheet is Wayne's memorandum to myself and Bruce
Freckleton. (End of Tape)The 2 bids both of them are somewhat non-responsive. The bid
that Riverside submitted is more non-responsive and they are non-responsive to the
extend that they are by State code required to list their mechanical and electrical sub-
Meridian City Council
May 16, 1995
Page 79
contractors and they did not do that. We have always had in the bid document a provision
that the City reserves the right to waive any and all informalities that we feel would be
appropriate to ward a bid. Wayne has made the recommendation to us that we cannot
waive that requirement of the State code requirement to list the mechanical and electrical
sub-contractor. There was a requirement for each one of those contractors on this project.
Therefore Wayne has suggested that this bid be declared non-responsive. The Caron
Pump bid is also somewhat non-responsive to the extent that they were to include the
addendum that was issued in their bid package. They did not include the addendum that
was issued to them in the bid package but they did acknowledge on their bid proposal that
they had received the addendum. Wayne finds and I have highlighted it he can find no
cases that indicate the City cannot waive the statement on the addendum that states
proposals not containing this addendum shall be considered non-responsive and shall be
rejected. So therefore he considers that to be a minor informality as I do. The Caron bid
although they were not low is the other bid that was submitted and my request would be
that this bid be awarded to Caron Pump Systems Inc. in the amount of $77,850.00. They
have 30 days in the contract time to get that well going and completed.
Morrow: Mr. Mayor I would move that we declare the Riverside bid as being non-
responsive and that we award the bid to Caron Water Pump Systems in the amount of
$77,850.00.
Tolsma: Second
Kingsford: Moved by Walt, second by Ron to declare Riverside Inc. bid non-responsive
and award the bid to Caron Pump Water Systems Inc. in the amount of $77,850.00, all
those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
Smith: May I also have the Council's approval for the Mayor and City Clerk to sign the
contracts for the Caron Pump.
Kingsford: The award and notice to proceed?
Smith: Yes
Yerrington: So moved
Corrie: Second
Kingsford: Moved by Max, second by Bob to authorize the Mayor and City Clerk to sign the
Meridian City Council
May 16, 1995
Page 80
documents awarding and the contracts for Caron Pumps, all those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
Smith: I recently had a message from Bruce Stuart our Water Superintendent, the Idaho
Epilepsy League or the Epilepsy League of Idaho annually has a fund raising event which
is called mud volleyball. It has been held in Boise I don't know how many past years, this
year they have decided that they need to hold it in Meridian, or they would like to hold it
in Meridian. Tom Wright has donated the use of property at the southwest corner of Eagle
and Fairview and the thing that I want you to be aware of is that they have requested to
connect to the fire hydrant out there and to flood the ground so that they can create mud.
I asked the lady at the Epilepsy League what kind of water amount they were talking about
and she tells me it is somewhere around a million gallons. This event will be held July
15th.
Tolsma: A million gallons of water?
Smith: Right that is what she said, basically they are using what they have done in the
past is use 8 fire hydrants for 5 hours on Friday evening and 3 hours early Saturday
morning which is 8 hours. A million gallons is about 2000 gallons a minute for 8 hours.
There are 30 volleyball courts this area is about roughly 250 feet by 450 feet in size.
There are 3 rows of 10 courts each and it is something like 2000 entries the lady said in
this tournament.
Kingsford: What would that cost the City under our current fee schedule Gary?
Smith: There is a minimum of $5.00 for the first 4,000 gallons and then it goes up at the
rate of something like $.70 per thousand.
Kingsford: It is more than that because we raised the price.
Crookston: It is a $1.70 per thousand.
Smith: No that is sewer
Kingsford: It is more like $.85.
Smith: Well maybe it is, even at $.90 a thousand that would be 1000 times 90 which would
be $900 plus so we are probably looking at $900 plus $5.
Kingsford: We are talking about a substantial amount of money to be donating to this thing.
Meridian City Council
May 16,1995
Page 81
Smith: The thing that impacts me is the time of the year and the time of the day, it is a
Saturday morning early and sprinkler systems are going early. It is Friday night later in the
evening and historically that is a water use time also. If you want to use water it is
interesting but during the middle of the day is the least demand.
(Discussion Inaudible)
Smith: The one thing that I need to investigate and I am going to talk to this lady tomorrow
because I just wanted to let you know about it tonight to get your feelings on the subject.
That settlers ditch runs along the south boundary of that development out there. I don't
know how many feet it is from that ditch but in terms of the City contributing to this thing
it would almost, it would be a lot less impact if we were to rent a pump for them and pump
it out of the settlers ditch so they could flood the fields. Now that is assuming the settlers
ditch would be willing to turn loose of that much water. Because again it is 2000 gallons
a minute for 8 hours, that is a million gallons if that is the number that they need to put in
that field.
Yerrington: Who would put the water on the field the fire department?
Smith: Well, they talked about the fire department from their fire department volunteers
and I am not sure who those people are whether that is Boise City, Cole/Collister or
Whitney, Meridian, I don't know. You are not aware of it so they probably haven't
contacted Meridian. They have apparently some people that the have worked with in
Boise in the past. If you have any comments for me to take to her I will be happy to do
that. I told her that I was bringing this information to you this evening so you were aware
of it.
Tolsma: (Inaudible)
Smith: I think it is going to be around $1000 with the water.
Kingsford: I would suggest that they take a look at using, it has been our policy to
discourage use for irrigation, I think that ought to follow through for entertainment. If they
try and take that out of the irrigation ditch I think that is a logical reason it isn't in Boise.
Boise Water Corporation does the same thing that we do to encourage alternate day
sprinkling and certainly it could be a major impact.
Corrie: I wouldn't want to be in your seat when the phone calls come in (inaudible) wasted.
Tolsma: (Inaudible)
Meridian City Council
May 16, 1995
Page 82
Kingsford: I think clearly they have a right to a certain portion of that water because Upland
is in that. What is the Council's pleasure, if you decide to saddle me with the phone calls
I can handle them but it would be preference that they get it out of the irrigation ditch. I
don't think that is a good use of domestic water.
Corrie: If they can get the ditch to do it then fine, if they can't then I would (inaudible).
think Boise City is trying to tell them that they don't want it.
Smith: I was thinking that tanking truck that we have got is a 3000 gallon tank that would
be 350 of those truck loads. So the consensus of the Council is to try and get the water
out of the settlers ditch.
Tolsma: (Inaudible)
Smith: Okay, thank you.
Kingsford: Shari?
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council the only thing I have is on the senior grant for the block
grant project we need to designate an Environmental Review Officer and that needs to be
reflected in the minutes of a meeting.
Kingsford: You want to be that person?
Stiles: I want to so bad.
Kingsford: Entertain a motion to designate Shari to be the Environmental Review Officer.
Corrie: So moved
Yerrington: Second
Kingsford: Moved by Bob, second by Max to designate Shari as the Environmental Review
Officer for the block grant for the Senior center, all those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
Kingsford: Chief?
Gordon: Nothing
Meridian City Council
May 16, 1995
Page 83
Kingsford: You guys have a copy of the restrictive covenants for Fothergill Subdivision
Phase 2, Counselor has reviewed those do you have any questions for him? If not I would
entertain a motion to approve the CC&R's for Fothergill Point Phase 2.
Corrie: So moved
Yerrington: Second
Kingsford: Moved by Bob, second by Max to approve of the CC&R's for Fothergill Point
Subdivision Phase 2, all those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
Kingsford: Counselor?
Crookston: Nothing
Kingsford: Walter?
Morrow Two things, one is I would recommend that we defer the review of the personnel
manual updates until our strategic planning meeting on the 29th. The second item would
be that we will cover the sewer issues at that same meeting.
Kingsford: Max?
Yerrington: Nothing
Kingsford: Bob?
Corrie: One question, on the old middle school or high school that Alidjani building, did we
send that letter out yet. Helen did not know anything about it and I have an address for
her if it is registered.
Morrow: Mr. Crookston was in charge of putting that together because we trying a
condemnation process are we not.
Crookston: Now that I remember we are and no I have not sent the letter.
Corrie: Would you put Helen Alidjani, post office box 933 that will get to her about 10 days
faster, in Meridian. I asked her about and she didn't know anything about and she said
that is great. That is alii have.
Meridian City Council
May 16, 1995
Page 84
Tolsma: (Inaudible)
Morrow: It is Tuesday the 29th isn't it?
Kingsford: No, Tuesday is the 30th. We are now into Executive Session.
EXECUTIVE SESSION
Kingsford: Okay, is there a motion on the acceptance on the property of 1st and Idaho?
Morrow: Mr. Mayor I would move that the City Council of the City of Meridian authorize the
Mayor to execute the necessary contract documents to acquire the 60 by 60 lot on the
northeast corner of Idaho and East 1 st and for the City Clerk to attest to those documents.
Yerrington: Second
Kingsford: Moved by Walt, second by Max to authorize the Mayor to sign and the City
Clerk to attest the City accepting the property 60 by 60 on the northeast corner of Idaho
and East 1 st, all those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
Tolsma: Did we ever get any kind of a quote or anything on demolishing this old theater
building over here?
Stiles: Councilman Tolsma and Mayor and Council I talked to the Department of
Commerce about that because I had a question that is not an eligible use of funds for that
block grant project. I don't know how it got as far as it did, I mean it was even down to a
lease agreement had been executed. It was a year to year lease for up to 3 years a
maximum of 3 years and there is no way the Department of Commerce would contribute
one dime towards that.
Tolsma: Did anybody ever say what is would cost to demolish that thing?
Stiles: I don't know, I think Shoemaker, I think he had some rough estimates. Unless the
property were in the public domain that it couldn't be included as part of that downtown
project.
Tolsma: I had one private owner who said he would donate $2000 if it would help you start
it.
Meridian City Council
May 16, 1995
Page 85
Morrow: I don't know why we would go to that given our recent past we have some of the
best demolishers in Southern Idaho residing in the City let's just turn it over to them.
Kingsford: I would certainly be willing to entertain a motion to adjourn.
Morrow: I have one more thing, I am sorry I forgot, very quickly and Mr. Crookston can
handle this. My question is why do we have portable outhouses across the street from us?
And information from 2 of the neighbors that there are residents living within that structure.
Living within the old creamery.
Kingsford: We suspected people living in there but I was unaware of the portable
outhouse. Counselor let's get the judge re-advised, portable outhouses was not one of the
things the judge allowed.
Crookston: I will discuss it with the Chief of Police.
Kingsford: I would entertain a motion.
Corrie: So moved
Yerrington: Second
Kingsford: Moved by Bob, second by Max to adjourn, all those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 12:41 A.M.
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
APPROVED:
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GRANT P. KINGSFOR , R
ATTEST:
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AMBROSE, FITZGERALD & CROOKSTON
ATroRNEYS AND COUNSELORS AT LAW
GltANT I. AMBROSE (1915.1%3)
JOIl N o. FITlGEllALD, "A.
WAYNE G. CROOKSTON, Jlt, I'A.
\\1I.UAM ,1. SCIIWARrl
JOliN O. F1Tl.GERALIlIl.I'.A.
I'lITER W. WARI!, JIt.
1530 WESr SrATE . P,O. BOX 427
TEI.El'llONE (268) 888-1%1
FACSIMll.E (208) 88B.3%9
MElUDL\N, IDAHO 83680
TI-llS FIRM INCLUDES
PROFESSIONAL CORPORATIONS
MEMORANDUM
RECEIVED
MAY 1 6 1995
DATE:
TO:
FROM:
SUBJECT:
MAY 16, 1995
Gary Smith and Bruce Freckleton
Wayne G. Crookston, Jr.
WELL # 12 BIDDING
MERIDIAN
CITYEN~
~
)Jd-
Both of the bids received have problems with them. The
Riverside bid, I believe, has more problems than the Caron bid.
RIVERSIDE
The Riverside bid does not have a correct envelop; the envelop
does not state the entire name of the project nor does it have the
License Number on it. The Information For Bidders states that
"Each Bidder must designate the Mechanical and Electrical
SUBCONTRACTORS, and their addresses, they intend to use. Failure
to do so will result in the BID being determined a non responsive
bid and will be rejected." The bid does not comply with
requirement for the listing of the mechanical and electrical sub-
contractors. The statement in the contract document relating to
the subcontractors states that if the contractor is going to do the
sub-contract himself that the document is to be marked "SELF" and
if the job does not require that type of sub-contractor the
document is to be marked "N/A". If Riverside was going to do the
work itself it should have marked the space for the electrical and
mechanical contractors as "Self". The "N/A" indicates that no
electrical or mechanical work is required to perform the job. Gary
has indicated to me that both are required to perform this job.
If the firm is going to do the work itself, it must be
licensed for that activity and the license number should have been
added to the sheet. No license numbers were included. The bid
complys with the other requirements. Gary checked on the licensing
and Riverside does hold specialsty licenses for electrical and
plumbing but, again, there are no licensing numbers on the sheet.
The question then becomes, since the City has a statement that
allows the City to "waive any informalities or minor defects", can
the City waive the ~ub-contractor requirement. The City can waive
the envelop requirements but it can no~ waive the subcontractor
requirements. There are two cases that deal with the listing of
sub-contractors, Aqricultural Services v. City of Gooding, 120
Idaho 627, and Nielsen & Co. v. Cassia & Twin Falls County Joint
School Dist., 96 Idaho 763. They both state that the government
agency involved has no authority to waive the State of Idaho
requirement of listing the sub-contractors who are going to perform
the electrical and mechanical work. The City therefore cannot
waive the requirement for the sub-contractor listings. This bid of
Riverside shall have to be declared "Non-Responsive".
CARON
The Caron bid meets all of the requirements of the bid as
initially written. An Addendum was added to the bid documents.
This is Addendum No.1. It stated that, "All bidders shall
indicate receipt and acceptance of this Addendum on page BD-6 of
the Bid Schedule. Proposals not containing this Addendum shall be
considered non-responsive and shall be rejected." The initial
Contract Documents and Specifications document do not reference an
Addendum except on page BD-6 as part of the Bidder's Proposal,
which at the top states that,
"BIDDER acknowledges receipt of the following ADDENDUM:
Addendum No.
Addendum No.
Dated:
Dated:
"
The Contract Documents and Specifications document does not
reference any addendums, or possible addendums, as being part of
the bid or contract documents. In the INFORMATION FOR BIDDERS on
page BD-2 it states that, "The BID FORM(S) shall include, the
following: "BIDDER'S PROPOSAL, BID SCHEDULE (S), BID BOND, and
ELECTRICAL AND MECHANICAL SUBCONTRACTORS."
Caron, in the bid schedule on page BD-6, has marked the
addendum area as follows:
"BIDDER acknowledges receipt of the following ADDENDUM:
Addendum No.
Addendum No.
1
Dated: MAY 10,
Dated:
1995
"
I find no cases that indicate that the City can not waive the
statement on the Addendum that states, "Proposals not containing
this Addendum shall be considered non-responsive and shall be
rejected. " The Information to Bidders does not state that any
addendum are included in the contract documents nor does it state
that if addendum are not included the bid is non-responsive. The
Information to Bidders does state, "The OWNER may waive any
informalities or minor defects. . .".
OPINION
Therefore, since Riverside failed to meet a requirement of the
bid and the State law, since Caron did state that it acknowledged
the Addendum and the City can waive the requirement of having the
Addendum contained in the Proposal, and since Caron met all of the
other bid requirements, the Riverside bid should be declared non-
responsive and the Caron bid declared the low responsive bid.
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL
AGENDA
TUESDAY, MAY 16,1995 - 7:30 P.M.
CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS
MINUTES OF PREVIOUS MEETING HELD MAY 2,1995:
PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR ANNEXATION AND ZONING OF C-G FOR
74 ACRES BY E.L. BEWS: -!A!;J.fe W~...;t J~ Zo-t5-
PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A
VARIETY OF MIXED, PLANNED BUSINESS AND RESIDENTIAL LAND
USES BY E.L.BEWS: {a./;(.e t(,J1..h"7 Jtvr-e '201"3:--
STEINER DEVELOPMENT: APPEAL PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION
RECOMMENDATION: deJtrj aI/peaL
PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR ANNEXATION AND ZONING TO R-4 AND
R-15 FOR 45.46 ACRES FOR THE LAKE AT CHERRY LANE NO.5 & 6
BY STEINER DEVELOPMENT: re/YLdY?,-CL i;acL 10 f'(z.-
PUBUC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A PRELIMINARY PLAT FOR THE LAKE
AT CHERRY LANE NO.5 & 6 93 "LOTS BY STEINER DEVELOPMENT:
re frl.cvYt d.. ja c-k.. -to jJl { 2-
PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR ANNEXATION AND ZONING TO R-8 FOR
.40 ACRE BY D.W. INC.:
PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A PRELIMINARY PLAT FOR MAWS
ADDITION NO.3, 6 LOTS BY MAWS LIMITED PARTNERSHIP: afljJi'"t:Jvi/
,htR..>e..f)lt...j .;(....0.// CO/v>"f"~el...f;J (:[f/la 501 ~ar<HV>'-d.. 01.- IHhn.,f
PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A VARIANCE TO THE SETBACK
REQUIREMENT BY DAVID AND DENISE HALL: ~ ~
.;Ttvr-e 6 If: /11-.7J-.
PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A VARIANCE FOR A TWO YEAR TIME
EXTENSION ON RECORDING FINAL PLAT FOR GOLF VIEW NO. 4&
5 BY GOLF VIEW ESTATES LIMITED PARTNERSHIP:
-/1GW ~ dU/Ju!. 6 (3. ~
REQUEST FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR MANUFACTURING AND
SALE OF SPECIALTY CANDY BY THE LITTLE CHIPMUNK:
REQUEST FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A QUICK SERVICE;
RESTAURANT BY MCDONALD'S INC.: a/trove cunend..ed-.. .;: 'f { elL
ajJ jJ r t?V.e (.J (frLa/h 'rnt-d ua.e. ,;un m/?;-
12.
13.
14.
15.
16.
17.
18.
19.
20.
REQUEST FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR 2 DRIVE THRU
RESTAURANTS BY RICK THOMAS: 'llrov.e ;:/f'le/t
tl;'prbt/-f C::Jnd/!, t;n.u<-C a...a.e ;uu-nvU:;.
KAT SHUMWAY: DISCUSSION OF PiaL T RECYCLING PROGRAM:
(1.;/11 I-RJC/udtdLd_/l'~
REQUEST FOR TIME EXTENSION FOR FILING FINAL PLAT FOR FIELDSTONE
MEADOWS NO.5: !/-f;rovR t/f'--R- rtVl--- ~
RONALD VAN AUKER: REQUEST FOR TEMPORARY HOOK UP TO A SEPTIC
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WRIGHT BROTHERS/CESCO: REQUEST FOR TEMPORARY HOOK UP TO A
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BOLO'S PUB AND EATERY: REQUEST FOR BEER AND WINE LICENSE:
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TEXACd TRAVEL CENTER: REQUEST FOR BEER AND WINE LICENSE:
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ROBERT MONTGOMERY: PRESENTATION OF PROPOSED STORAGE
FACILITY WITHIN MERIDIAN CITY AREA OF IMPACT:
DEPARTMENT REPORTS:
A. GARY SMITH, CITY ENGINEER:
1. BID RESULTS: WELL NO..12 PUMP REPLACEMENT:
B. SHARI STILES, PLANNING ADMINISTRATOR:
1. DESIGNATION OF ERO FOR SENIOR CENTER ICDBGI
PROJECT UPDATE:
CITY OF MERIDIA~T
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PUBLIC MEETING SIGN-UP SHEET
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