HomeMy WebLinkAbout2023-10-17 Work Session Meridian City Council Work Session October 17, 2023.
A Meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 4:31 p.m. Tuesday,
October 17, 2023, by Mayor Robert Simison.
Members Present: Robert Simison, Brad Hoaglun, Luke Cavener, Jessica Perreault, Liz
Strader and John Overton.
Members Absent: Joe Borton.
Others Present: Chris Johnson, Bill Nary, Brian McClure, Laurelei McVey, Mike Barton,
Caleb Hood, Chris, Joe Bongiorno and Dean Willis.
ROLL-CALL ATTENDANCE
_X_ Liz Strader Joe Borton
_X_ Brad Hoaglun _X_ John Overton
_X_ Jessica Perreault _X_Luke Cavener
X Mayor Robert E. Simison
Simison: Council, we will call the meeting to order. For the record it is October 17tn
2023 at 4:36 p.m. We will begin this afternoon's work session with roll call attendance.
ADOPTION OF AGENDA
Simison: Next item up is adoption of the agenda.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: I move that we adopt the agenda as published.
Overton: Second.
Simison: Have a motion and a second to adopt agenda as published. Is there any
discussion? If not, all in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay? The ayes have it
and the agenda is adopted.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
CONSENT AGENDA [Action Item]
1. Approve Minutes of the September 26, 2023 City Council Work
Session
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October 17,2023
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2. Approve Minutes of the September 26, 2023 City Council Regular
Meeting
3. Approve Minutes of the October 3, 2023 City Council Work Session
4. Approve Minutes of the October 3, 2023 City Council Regular
Meeting
5. Chipotle Shell (Medina Subdivision) LDIR-2023-0035 Water Main
Easement (ESMT-2023-0137)
6. Franklin Parking Expansion Sanitary Sewer and Water Main
Easement (ESMT2023-0133)
7. Meridian Commerce Park Building J Water Main Easement No. 1
(ESMT-2023-0130)
8. Meridian Commerce Park Grand Mougul Drive Phase 1 Water Main
Easement No. 1 (ESMT-2023-0141)
9. Meridian Commerce Park Grand Mougul Drive Phase 1 Sanitary
Sewer No. 1 (ESMT-2023-0140)
10. Meridian Movado Village Subdivision Sanitary Sewer and Water Main
Easement No. 1 (ESMT-2023-0138)
11. Meridian Movado Village Subdivision Sanitary Sewer and Water Main
Easement No. 2 (ESMT-2023-0139)
12. St. Luke's Consolidated Service Center Sanitary Sewer and Water
Main Easement (ESMT-2023-0112)
13. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for Windrow Neighborhood (H-
2023-0031) by Conger Group, located at the northeast corner of S.
Linder Rd. and W. Amity Rd.
14. License Agreement Between the City of Meridian, Meridian
Development Corporation, and Nampa & Meridian Irrigation District
15. License Agreement between the City of Meridian and the Nampa and
Meridian Irrigation District for Pathway along the Creason Lateral to
be builtwith the Lennon Pointe Subdivision
16. Memorandum of Understanding Between the City of Meridian and
Meridian Firefighters IAFF Local 4627 for Implementation of Certain
Provisions of the 2023-2026 Successor Collective Labor Agreement
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17. Subrecipient Agreements between the City of Meridian and the Boys
and Girls Club of Ada County, Idaho, Inc.; the City of Meridian and
Family Advocacy and Education Services; the City of Meridian and
Jesse Tree of Idaho; the City of Meridian and Neighborhood Housing
Services, Inc.; and a First Amendment to the Subrecipient
Agreement between the City of Meridian and Neighborhood Housing
Services, Inc.
18. Fiscal Year 2024 Net-Zero Budget Amendment in the Amount of
$482,362.00 to accept the Fiscal Year 2024/Program Year 2023
Community Development Block Grant (CDBG) Award
19. Resolution No. 23-2419: A resolution vacating a 20-foot by 20-foot
Meridian City water easement located along the northeast corner of
Lot 5, Block 3 of Gramercy Subdivision No. 1, being more
particularly described in Exhibit "A"; and providing an effective
date.
20. Resolution No. 23-2420: A resolution of the City Council of the City of
Meridian, Idaho, setting forth certain findings and purposes to
declare surplus property and authorizing the donation of certain
computer and equipment to Computers for Kids and the Ada County
Humane Society.
Simison: Next item up is the Consent Agenda.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: I move approval of the Consent Agenda and for the Mayor to sign and Clerk
to attest.
Cavener: Second.
Simison: Have a motion and a second to approve the Consent Agenda. Is there any
discussion? If not, all in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay? The ayes have it
and the Consent Agenda is agreed to.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
ITEMS MOVED FROM THE CONSENT AGENDA [Action Item]
Simison: There are no items moved from the Consent Agenda.
DEPARTMENT / COMMISSION REPORTS [Action Item]
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21. Biosolids Project Update
Simison: So, next we will go to Department/Commission Reports and first one up is
Item 21, the Biosolids project update. Turn this over to Ms. McVey.
McVey: All right. Good afternoon, Mayor and Council. What's more exciting than
biosolids? I'm not saying.
Simison: Wait was -- were you starting off with a joke?
McVey: Oh, no. I can't see it on here. Oh. That's easy. All right. It's not moving.
Okay. Perfect. All right. So, you may remember back in 2021 we started looking at
potential projects that would be eligible for use with the city's allocated ARPA funding.
So, when we first started that we looked at really three high level things. So, would the
project be eligible under that federal funding? Would the project be designed and
constructed by the end of 2026, because that's a hard requirement of this funding and,
then, based on what we knew internally would the ROI be a long-term favorable impact
to the city. So, with that in mind a couple of the Public Works projects that moved
forward were the biosolids dryer and the biogas utilization project. So, we have
received more information on both of those and I'm here to present our
recommendations for moving forward. So, starting with the biosolids dryer. So, we
have a five million dollar placeholder of the ARPA money for this project. So, I know you
guys all know what biosolids is, but for anybody listening in it is the solid end product of
the wastewater plant. So, it's a really nutrient rich soil like material. So, today we
produce a little over 10,000 tons and that is currently hauled to the Ada County Landfill.
There is two parts to our disposal of this material. The first is the cost to dispose of it at
the landfill. That cost recently just went up from 29 dollars to 32 dollars a ton and we
are also charged a fee to haul it up to the landfill. Currently we contract with a third-
party hauler and that costs us about 3,000 dollars a week. You may also remember
back in the beginning of 2022 1 came to you and asked to purchase our own truck and
trailer, knowing that it would save us significant money over the long term, but also
knowing that those had a really long lead time. Well, I'm really excited to tell you our
truck is in the Treasure Valley and our trailer is slotted to be built the end of December.
So, we are hopeful that we will start hauling at the beginning of February, but we weren't
kidding when we said long lead time on those. Important to know that any ROls that we
did on the dryer we used our -- our in-house hauling as the baseline for that. So, we
weren't double dipping on the ROI for that. We looked at -- the types of dryers we
looked at -- we wanted to reduce the volume of the biosolids by four to one, so that
reduces both the disposal cost of the landfill and, then, also the hauling trips. So, even
if we are self-hauling, reducing that volume is important, because it reduces staff time, it
reduces travel time, emissions, fuel. So, there were two main types of dryers that we
looked at. We wanted to make sure that whatever dryer we chose that it could meet the
dryness requirements, that it would fit on our site. We wanted to look at the initial
capital costs and, then, also the ongoing operational costs. We looked at the
complexity of the equipment and whether or not staffing would be required and we also
looked at expandability. So, as we continue to grow in the future could we add on to
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this. So, primarily two types of dryers rose to the top. The first is a thermally enhanced
solar greenhouse. So, it's just like a greenhouse, but it has a metal floor that you put
heat into, which helps accelerate the drying and the other one was a thermal belt dryer
and that's where an external heat source, in this case heated air, is passed over the
solids as it goes over a belt. Both technologies would work, but the primary distinction
that made us turn away from the belt dryer and go towards the solar greenhouse is
capital cost. So, the thermal belt dryer has to go inside of a building, so significantly
higher capital costs -- about three times as much as the solar greenhouse dryer. The
belt dryer is more complex and so would also require additional staffing needs. So, we
moved forward with the solar dryer for further analysis. So, it's really a quite simple
operation, which is pretty neat. It's very effective. We made sure to look at it in
Meridian's climate, so would it work in the winter, the summer, do we get enough solar
heat? It's kind of neat. We are looking at a circular design. This would be one of the
first in the country versus the rectangular design. It cuts footprint and cost. So, that's
pretty cool. You can also see it really easily fits another one in the future. So, that spot
on the map is where we currently store our biosolids before it goes to the landfill. So,
perfect location, not a lot of material handling and we have several sources of the
external heat so the heat that you put in the floor to make it work more efficiently. You
can put in solar collectors. You can use the excess bio gas that we flare today. Or you
can use natural gas. So, we have plenty of excess bio gas, which we will talk about,
and so our recommendation would be to use that. There is no cost for us to use that
excess bio gas and it would greatly benefit this -- this process. So, like I mentioned we
had an initial estimate of about five million dollars of ARPA funding. This more detailed
analysis is putting us right in at the 4.6 million dollar range, so we are right in that -- that
bucket where I think that that -- that funding will be sufficient. The ROI on this is very
positive, so it will result in a savings of between 250 and 300 thousand dollars a year
today. That's what self-hauling, that's with the landfill costs as it is. One of the other
benefits is that this technology allows us to produce a higher classification of biosolids
and what that means is that in the future if something like compost or land application
became beneficial to the city we could utilize our biosolids for that use. Another thing
that this does is, you know, with the concerns with landfill life span and landfill -- the
landfill filling up, this is a really positive way that we can reduce our volume of what's
going to the landfill. So, our recommendation is that we proceed with completion of this
project. I think it's a really positive project for not only our operations, our financials, our
environmental impact, it's a -- it's a really exciting I think project. So, switching gears a
little bit to talk about the biogas project. So, with this one --
Simison: Laurelei, would you mind if we just stop there for any questions Council --
McVey: Sure.
Simison: -- may have specifically about that project.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
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Cavener: Laurelei, just one question. Just curious the -- the greenhouse's ability to
retain aromas versus the enclosed facility, what's -- what's the difference between the
two?
McVey: So, they are -- the -- our consultant actually thinks that the odors will be better
than what they are today with the biosolids just out on the pad. So, they are not
recommending any auxiliary odor control for this, but it could be added on to either
facility in the future if -- if that was deemed, but they anticipate it being an improvement
over what we have today.
Cavener: But do we know what the improvement is? Again, I'm supportive of the
greenhouse approach from a ROI, but just also trying to understand -- like is it ways and
light years better than if it's on the -- on the belt dryer in an enclosed building versus the
-- the greenhouse? I mean what's -- what's the difference between the -- the aromas
that come from each of those facilities?
McVey: So, Councilman Cavener, I believe they would be similar, because it's similar --
similar drying, similar process, it's just the greenhouse is less mechanically complex.
Cavener: Thank you.
Simison: So, Laurelei, is it from -- when you are showing the -- what the current haul
ton -- tonnages? What's the difference in the tonnage post-completion of project
estimated to be?
McVey: So -- Mr. Mayor, so it's about a four to one reduction. So, today we haul seven
times a week up to the landfill. They expect -- we expect that to decrease to one to two
times per week. I don't know off the top of my head what that weight is, but --
Simison: But maybe 20 -- I'm just going by the number 2,500 to 3,000 tons compared to
the ten thousand tons roughly.
McVey: Yeah.
Simison: Okay. All right. Thank you. Any other questions on that project? Okay.
Thank you.
McVey: Okay. So, switching gears to biogas, still related to our biosolids, but our
biogas is the natural byproduct of our digestion process. So, it's primarily methane and
today we flare -- or we use about 40 percent of our gas to heat the digesters to make
the digestion process work. About 60 percent of our gas is just flared to the atmosphere
under our air permit. So, what we looked at was a project that would take the gas -- and
digester gas is a really dirty gas as far as the -- the cleanliness of gas goes, so you
have to do a lot of pretreatment to it. You have to remove sulfur -- or hydrogen sulfides,
moisture, siloxanes, particulates to be able to put it into an engine generator. So, this
process would first clean the gas and, then, it would compress it and put it into an
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engine to generate power. One of the challenges of this project is that the process is
highly mechanically complex and requires a lot of staff time to keep this up and
operational and, then, one of our biggest challenges when we looked at this further is
the cost of equipment has gone up significantly from what we were anticipating. So, we
were estimating about a 1.55 million dollar placeholder for ARPA. The equipment itself
was coming in at between 4.9 and 7.4 million dollars. So, that in itself makes the ROI
really challenging. The other piece is that because this is mechanically complex it's --
we would anticipate needing another FTE to deal specifically with this piece of
equipment, keeping it operational and working. So, between the cost of the building
and, then, when we ran the ROI -- power is really cheap in Idaho and that -- that makes
the ROI challenging. So, between the operation and maintenance and the FTE, when
that's offset with the power savings that you would get, it would cost us about 130,000
dollars annually to operate this equipment. So, it's not recommended that we install it at
this point. It doesn't make financial sense for us. That's not to say that in the future it's
not a good technology. If electricity costs continue to go up or equipment costs come
down, definitely a good use of that excess gas. One of the other things, too, though, so,
you know, we are not just going to be flaring all of that excess gas anymore, is -- so, this
is the graph for the biosolids dryer that you just saw. So, the -- the green lines
represent how much of the gas we need to use to heat the digesters. The blue is what
was currently -- or I guess the gray line is what is currently flared off today. So, the --
the blue bars are what is -- would be used by the dryer. After we install the dryer what
will be flared is the difference between the blue bars and the gray bar. So, significantly
less flaring. Definitely great use of that to make the -- the solar greenhouse work more
effectively. So, we are really excited, because by putting in the dryer we still will be able
to use -- beneficially reuse much more of the gas than we are using today. So, our
recommendation is to commit and continue to the biosolids project with the five million
dollar ARPA placeholder and, then, our recommendation would be to cease the bio gas
project and return that money back to the ARPA -- the city's ARPA fund for use on
another city project. So, I don't think I need official approval from you guys on anything
today, but just more looking for your general buy-in that this is a good direction forward,
commit to the biosolids project. One of our challenges with the ARPA funding is these
projects have to be done and completed and spent by the end of 2026. So, we do have
to -- to get it moving to get it constructed in that time frame. So, with that I will stand for
any additional questions.
Simison: Thank you, Laurelei. Council, any questions?
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Just some comments. I have spent a lot of time with Laurelei on this and
really appreciate the hard work that the team put into understanding these two projects.
You know, I think this is what our clean energy resolution is all about is doing the right
thing for the environment when it makes financial sense for the city; right? And it's at
least neutral, if not positive for the taxpayer. Clearly the bio gas project isn't as fruitful
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as we initially thought, but I love that we can use the bio gas to make the biosolids dryer
facility even more successful. I think it -- it looks like it's even better than we initially
thought and that it will actually accomplish a lot of things for the city. So, I'm really
excited about it and I know you were joking about how, you know, maybe it would be a
boring topic, but I think this is one of the most exciting topics and I'm really just so
enthusiastic about it and appreciate everyone's hard work on it, because it's going to
help us so much in the future. Thank you.
Simison: Thank you. Council, any additional comments, concerns, thumbs up? All
right. We look forward to seeing this come forward through budget amendments and
contracts and all the fun stuff.
McVey: Thank you.
23. Lakeview Golf Course Fiscal Year 2023 Financial Performance, New
Fiscal Year 2024 Fees, and Projected Outcomes
Simison: Thank you. Speaking of budget amendments, next item up is Item 22, which
is a fiscal year 2024 budget amendment in the not to exceed amount of 144,900 for
Mary McPherson Elementary pathway. Mr. Barton.
Barton: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Members of Council. I'm here presenting a budget
amendment for 144,000 dollars -- 144,900 dollars, like the Mayor said, that will fund the
pathway connection between Mary McPherson Elementary and Reflection Ridge
Subdivision. Just as a note on the memo, it says that we have a license agreement to
build the pathway across this property. We don't quite have that yet. I thought we
would, but there is some final legal edits that we are doing. Just as of today they have
been -- they have been finalized, it's a matter of just sending a clean copy back to
Simplot and -- so I'm -- I'm confident. We -- we did have a discussion on should we pull
this and bring it back, but we are confident enough that the license agreement will be in
place shortly, so we would like to move forward with this. We bid the project. We have
a contractor on board that's ready to start shortly after Thanksgiving, so we can get this
in, the kids can use the pathway going back and forth to school mid-December -- you
know, after Christmas break in the spring. So, with that I will stand for questions.
Simison: Thank you, Mr. Barton. Council, questions?
Overton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Overton.
Overton: Great job. This is one of the intersections -- well, one of the areas that came
out in our intersection safety task force is identified for needing additional ways for kids
to get to that school, because around it on both sides we have no sidewalks and this
helps greatly up until the time we get those sidewalks and those developments come
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through. So, I think it's a fantastic idea and I'm so glad that we got the approvals to
make this happen.
Barton: Thank you. We appreciate the opportunity to get it done.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Mike, it sounds like you got a plan. I always get a little nervous when you
don't have every last dot on an I and a T crossed.
Barton: Yeah.
Cavener: Council grants the budget amendment, something goes upside down with the
license agreement, what happens?
Barton: We won't spend the money, it will be returned to the General Fund.
Cavener: Okay.
Simison: That -- ditto on that. So, without a license agreement we are not going to
spend these dollars.
Cavener: Well, I -- I -- I knew that would be the case, I just -- I wanted -- blood pressure
goes up just a scosche each time we talk about these things, so -- no concern on my
part.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: Thank you. Mike, I apologize if I missed this, but this is -- this pathway is
going along the lateral; correct? And was there any fencing needed or discussed or
included in this?
Barton: Yeah. Mr. Mayor, Council Woman, that's a great question. This lateral right
there is about eight inches deep and maybe three feet wide. So, if -- if there is -- you
know, I mean that would be a concern for sure if there is school-age children walking
without fencing next to a -- like a canal, but anybody that would have a problem with
that much -- that shallow water shouldn't be out there alone.
Simison: And correct me if I'm wrong, but if there is a desire for a fence that's
something that we would approach West Ada about helping I believe were the
conversations.
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Barton: There is an -- there is one -- one area that's more easily accessible than -- than
another and that area was talked about with fencing. I mean the entire -- if -- if West
Ada thinks so that would be -- it would be on them, but it's almost a thousand feet of
fencing, so I don't know if that's in their plans are not, but I -- but I'm -- I'm confident that
it's not an attractive nuisance or a danger to elementary school kids that are walking
there. It's -- it's really -- honestly, it's really this deep.
Simison: I would just like to echo -- A, I -- I think Dave's upstairs watching. I know that
he was actually talking with Emily right before we came down still trying to work on
some of these elements. But I really want to just give him a -- much appreciation for his
work with Simplot and the school district and helping -- and the irrigation district. I mean
Dave's the -- especially when it comes to irrigation district, the gift that keeps on giving
in a lot of ways, but it was also his coordination with Simplot to help get the parties in
the room to help make this conversation. So, thank you, Dave, for that and thank you to
the team for getting this all put together and ready to go to work and we will get the legal
work done and we will get a pathway connected, especially in light of the ongoing
dialogue around Brian's favorite intersection of Amity and Locust Grove and not knowing
the future, honestly, of when or how that will ever manifest itself. So, this is more
important for that reason as well. So, thank you.
Barton: You're welcome.
Simison: All right. If not do I have a motion?
Overton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Overton.
Overton: I move that we approve the fiscal year 2024 budget amendment for the not to
exceed amount of 144,900 dollars for the Mary McPherson Elementary pathway.
Cavener: Second.
Simison: Have a motion and a second to approve the budget amendment. Is there any
discussion? If not, Clerk will call the roll.
Roll Call: Hoaglun, yea; Borton, absent; Cavener, yea; Perreault, yea; Strader, yea;
Overton, yea.
Simison: All ayes. Motion carries and the item is agreed to. Thank you very much.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Barton: Thank you. Stand here for the next one.
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24. Ada County Highway District Capital Roadway Improvement Guide
(Matrix)
Simison: All right. Next item up is Item 23, Lakeview Golf Course fiscal year 2023
financial performance, new fiscal year 2024 fees and projected outcomes. Mr. Barton,
back to you.
Barton: I'm going to stay right here. Mr. Mayor, Members of Council, thank you. We
wanted to give you just a -- a brief preliminary report on the financial outcome of FY-23
at the golf course. These numbers are not final yet. We still have some bills coming in
at the end through September that need to be paid. The revenue is final. The bills
might not be. So, these numbers will fluctuate a little bit, but overall things are very
positive. We had a really good year at the golf course and kind of keeping in that --
keeping with that tone we have developed a proposal for new fees going forward. The
new fees that you have in front of you are a -- a four percent to this season passes and
then -- and, then, how -- and -- and just a little bit of a back story on how we arrived at
these fees. So, it's a four percent increase to the passes to keep up with inflation.
What we did to the greens fees is we -- we went and we looked at our competitors, we
went to what the full market would suggest we charge and we cut that in half. We didn't
want to hit people with that shock, we thought maybe that that would also have maybe a
counter effect and have effect negatively on the amount of rounds, the volume of
business there, so I think that the fees that we have are a solid proposal. We anticipate
some good numbers going forward and I think with that I will stand for questions.
Simison: All right. Thank you, Mike. Council, questions?
Cavener: Great work to the whole team.
Overton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Overton.
Overton: Not a question, but a comment. A compliment. I think we are starting to see
and reap the rewards of all the hard work that's gone in by all of the park staff at the golf
course. So much good inputs come from the neighbors on everything you guys have
done and I know that's got to play a part in how much more popular and how much
more use it's getting and it's a testament to all the hard work that you guys have put in.
Thank you.
Barton: Thank you. And I -- I agree. These men back here are -- do a lot of -- a lot of
the heavy lifting. It's -- it's great. So, we will be happy to answer any more questions,
but we don't need any formal action tonight. We will notice these fees and come back in
a public hearing in a couple of weeks.
Simison: Okay. Thank you. And echo the sentiments of Councilman Overton to the
whole team and look forward to the continued improvements investment and also
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getting it to a market rate that works great for everybody involved and recovers the cost
that we are trying to recover up there.
Barton: Thank you.
25. Black Cat/McMillan Intersection Cost Share Discussion
Simisom Thank you. Okay. With that we will move on to Item 24, Ada County Highway
District Capital Roadway Improvement Guide Matrix. Turn this over to Mr. McClure.
McClure: Thank you, Mayor. I'm here to discuss the ACHD Capital Improvement Guide
with you tonight. I will likely drift back and forth calling this the guide and the matrix.
Habit. So, I'm sorry in advance. Staff have been working on this project with the
consultant and ACHD since April of this year. This is a project overview. Cover the
background, policy framework, the guide, which is three parts and, then, next steps.
Just a little bit of a forewarning. I think Caleb's online, but I'm helping cover the next
item as well and since these two relate I will sort of drift to the next item, which is the
Black Cat and McMillan roundabout intersection. This is a very brief overview of the
city's involvement in ACHD capital improvement projects. This guide is for roadway and
intersections only. There is other types of ACHD capital projects that we aren't
discussing, such as bridges. Once initiated projects on average are five or so years.
That includes concept design, design, right of way and, then, start of construction. In
this period a lot of change occurs. There isn't a project that I have been involved with
for a decade for a section line mile of roadway that hasn't seen a lot of change. Major
changes are sometimes political, sometimes the engineering and there is also smaller
changes, like cost, timing, construction materials and there is all sort of interact overlap.
There are several interrelated reasons for this matrix. The first is that ACHD will not or
cannot install landscaping. There is opportunity to enhance roadways and meaningfully
address speed management and user comfort for all users that they can't explore. The
cost share allows the city to support enhanced projects by committing to project
features that affect project design, construction and bidding. They are willing -- they,
being ACHD, are willing to reimburse us for features that don't -- that they don't
otherwise have to install. For example, concrete. And -- and that work towards the
common goal and otherwise unachievable without a partnership. Maintenance is
usually something that the city takes on for soft scape that is not storm water related.
Our goal with this project is to enable better communication earlier to establish
expectations, to help Council get a better idea of what the commitment is and why and
to help address project needs and, importantly, have an agreement with ACHD
completed before we get too far along in the -- in these. As mentioned before, the
matrix is really three parts. The introduction. This is really documenting the process.
You have a copy before you, then, I also sent you a PDF last week and, then, Chris will
have it on Laserfiche later. Things get lost and forgotten. The interagency institutional
memory is something that we struggle with and, then, also just the process. This also
highlights opportunities for the city and ACHD to actually partner, not just towards
different goals, but the same one. A lot of focus in this work is how the city can expand
tools unavailable to ACHD to improve safety, to create more consistent traffic flow and
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generally just to make a better project. Vertical elements in the street are one of the
best ways to do these, but the options to ACHD are often limited, ugly, or more costly for
less impact. Most of this is really for staff, both city and ACHD. The concepts are both
a communication tool for staff and, then, decision makers. That's the second part of
this. City Council -- I'm sorry. It just helps with understanding and, then, to better
address cost share, which, again, I will be following up with this shortly for the Black Cat
and McMillan intersection. The appendix is really something of a white paper. It's why
we think this is important and it helps to bridge some gaps that engineering is currently
-- kind of struggles to address. But it is things that other disciplines understand, how --
how people interact with their space. So, this here is a matrix. One of two, actually.
This one is for the roadway. There is a companion one for the intersection slash
roundabouts. The other -- this is really the primary communication tool for staff. What's
most helpful for -- for us. Over the years ACHD's changed their standards. Multiple
councils and commissions have come and gone and staff have changed. So, this is
really intended, again, just to keep hitting this point. Improve consistency. The matrix
starts on the left column here. This identifies the general sort of cross-section we are
looking at. So, whether there is a median, no median. Broadly speaking here level one
is not bad and level four is not good. These are just levels of effort and different
conditions may warrant different needs. The second column here is the baseline
improvements. This is what ACHD will do for these different cross-sections. These
different cross-section project types if the city does not do anything. Typically that is
stamped concrete in several different colors and they are also increasingly doing some
metal barriers. This one here -- so, levels one through four. These are the levels of
participation that the -- that the staff sees the city sort of getting engaged with these
projects. The city would receive cost share credits for all of these described in the
matrix. Level one represents minimal or immediate cost with cost share covering most
of the city's cost and, then, the city covering great -- greater maintenance over a period
of time. Level two and three are generally sort of the same level of effort, but different.
One focuses more on hardscape and physical improvements, like poles. The other one
focuses on landscaping. And, then, level four is more intensive, both initial cost and the
maintenance. As an example, most of an HOA landscape buffer for level four, as an
example, that might be used as when an HOA's landscape buffer is largely removed
from a project when enough right of way isn't preserved. This would provide an
opportunity in roundabouts and medians to sort of restore some of that community
identity. If it's not clear right now consistency is a big part of this. Design influences are
intended to be similar, reflecting constraints, size and, then, speed management across
all levels. This here is an example of a cross-section and a cut sheet. A lot of the
design influences -- these have been driven by historical influences, such as staff
experience and also recent council conversations, such as the Ustick corridor. Rhythm,
repetition and spacing and other elements are all important in all of these and they all
have a shared sort of thematic. We had good support from ACHD in all of these and
they are eager to use these. On the left are basic descriptions. The intent of these is to
identify the spacing of the surface treatments. In the middle is a simple CAD
perspective rendering and, then, below are some descriptions of the general
improvements. Most of these things are on the cut sheets. They are just -- these cut
sheets -- or on the matrix these cut sheets just help to sort of depict them. We have
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one of these cut sheets for every cell on both of the matrices, so the roadway and the --
the landscape -- I'm sorry -- the intersection roundabouts. In contrast, which staff
usually have to discuss with Council, our general ideas, construction drawings and
sketches or delineation of responsibilities or the conversation is happening very late in
the game, such as the next project with Black Cat and McMillan. Level one is generally
what staff is going to be looking towards for standard arterial roadways. Meetings with
vertical elements and landscaping have the largest potential to reduce the feeling of --
of massive boulevards, so just lots of asphalt and lots of concrete. More broadly, level
one to four all look and feel similar. It's more about the number of things going into a
space, the complexity. It's going to be context sensitive and staff recommendation is
generally going to come down to what is needed for speed management, rehabilitation
of landscaping being removed and, then, other community needs. I -- I will now drift a
little bit into the Black -- a lot into the Black Cat and McMillan, which is the next item.
Staff brought this project to Council -- specifically, rather, Caleb brought this project to
Council on July 25th to discuss potential landscaping elements. Council expressed an
interest in including some landscaping, but wanted to hear more about a consistent
palette of materials to be used throughout the city. The proposed design here at a very
high level includes a multi-lane roundabout with truck apron, multi-use pathways with
crosswalks and rectangular rapid flashing beacons for each of the pedestrian crossings.
As alluded to earlier, staff is moving towards a level one participation in the matrix for
this project. This would provide a consistent thematic for the primary roundabouts, as
other new and planned roundabouts are in the city and, then, where possible also
provide some additional interest in the buffers. These are low maintenance and low
water use designs. Since this project is still living in the past a bit, it's -- it's a -- it's an
older project that's just -- just now working its way through. Some of the buffers are
smaller and so there is going to be less opportunities here in the splitter islands, the sort
of smaller medians and, then, the landscape buffers between the back of curb and the
multi-use pathways. We may not be able to do as much here. For contrast, this is a
level four level of effort for a roundabout. It's really just more intense landscaping, more
rock features. I don't think it does anything less, especially for a smaller roundabout like
this. Regardless, the city will also be asking for ACHD to restore and improve areas
outside of the roundabout, so it's not bare earth. That will not be part of a cost share or
-- or on the city for this. So, there is two projects sort of smashed together -- or two --
two agenda items. The -- the first sort of one was I'm looking for feedback from -- from
Council on the matrix, any concerns or tweaks we can make. This is something that
staff is going to be using to -- again, just for institutional knowledge if nothing else. And,
then, secondly, whether there is any concern that Council has with moving forward with
the level one level of effort for a roundabout design at the Black Cat and McMillan
intersection.
Simison: Thank you, Brian. So, Council, let's go onto Item 24. Do you have
comments, feedback, questions regarding the information that's been provided?
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
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Perreault: Brian, thank you very much for these worksheets. They are really helpful to
understand the differences between the -- between the different sections of the matrix.
The one question I have is I can't tell the difference between cut sheet -- excuse me. A
series A level one and series B level one. Could you just run through that one more
time?
McClure: Mr. Mayor, Council Woman Perreault, series A has a -- there is some -- so,
series A has no medians with buffer strips that don't allow for trees and, then, a median
-- it also doesn't allow for trees, so there is -- there is two there. So, median and no
median, both that -- both that do not allow for basically parkway trees and, then, series
B is median and no median that allow for parkway trees. Basically if the buffer is less
than eight feet the city isn't going to generally want to do trees and if the buffer is more
than eight feet we would be open to doing trees and the reason for that is ACHD
requires -- for anything less than eight feet -- or anything greater than six feet, but less
than eight feet, ACHD requires a root barrier, which protects -- protects a -- the -- the
asphalt and the road surface and the concrete for the sidewalk or multi-use pathway
from root damage. So, heating, basically, of the surface, if that makes sense. Did I
answer your question?
Perreault: Yeah. I think so. Thank you very much.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: What I love about this brand is a -- you took a situation where we are having a
new conversation every time and reinventing the wheel and you have standardized it in
a scalable way that can be used as a methodology going forward. That is like
government excellence to me. That is phenomenal. So, I just want to compliment you,
because this is the right approach to take to this sort of thing. I love that it's adaptive.
ACHD must love it, because this takes a lot of guesswork out of the equation every
single time. So, hats off to you on that. My only question was around the native plants
and stuff and these are sort of an opportunity, because I think we -- we definitely didn't
want each one to be the same; right? That was a -- a piece of it. We wanted a little bit
differentiation, but -- but to sort of standardize it and have you guys thought about, you
know, the types of plants that are helpful that -- that will thrive and all that stuff? Have
you gotten into it -- you know, Mike or other people into the plants and all that stuff yet
or you sort of going to iron out those details later?
McClure: Mr. Mayor, Council Woman Strader, that was a conversation -- sorry, I can't
see you when I talk on the mic at the same time. That was a -- that was a conversation
we had with -- as a team regularly. Native plants, adapted plants, the amount of water
necessary to -- to allow plants to grow. There is -- there is a cost there regardless of
what we do, where even with adapted or native plants that do work here we have to
have an irrigation source to water them occasionally. So, the level of effort there is sort
of a wash. It's certainly something we can do. The -- the -- the purpose of this isn't to
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specify specific plants every single time. We definitely like the idea of -- of fitting in with,
you know, existing neighborhood thematics. So, if they have got a lot of red or yellow or
whatever that is, more -- more deciduous, more evergreen, that's -- that's something we
can definitely discuss with projects. We are just trying to have a high level awareness
and understanding of what we want to do for -- for general massing, general thematic,
general scale. I think we are all very much interested in -- in doing adapted plants and
low water use plants, even potentially no water plants where possible, but that's a
harder conversation.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: I just have one more question, which is, you know, we have run into situations
where HOA's have installed these like complex, very elaborate roundabouts. Would the
intent going forward be in those situations to require them to follow this standard going
forward? Have we sort of had those conversations or are we expecting that HOA -- or,
you know, if a developer controls all four corners of an intersection and they are putting
in improvements, do we expect that they will still be doing something different on their
end?
McClure: Mr. Mayor, Council Woman Strader, that has -- we have -- we have discussed
that. There is certainly some concerns with long-term public maintenance and
ownership of those types of projects, you know, when -- when the developer has gone
away, but we have not discussed requiring developers to adhere to this particular effort.
Strader: Thank you.
Simison: So, Brian, I assume that you have mentally looked at this, but I guess my
question is moving forward where do you actually see this being applied? And, then,
just take like Locust Grove as an example, where you have Locust Grove essentially
built from Franklin now down to Amity, but they may go back and, you know, the -- the
mile from Fairview to Ustick is yet to be improved or the mile from Victory to Amity is yet
to be improved. Are we looking at corridor applications where you are going to create
this boulevard effect or are we looking at one mile segments? Are we thinking
eventually we are going to go back and redo other segments that would have similar
stuff? I'm just trying to get a sense of like -- are we going to be a patchwork of this mile
gets it, then, we are not going to have it for four miles and, then, this mile gets it based
on how we have already developed or otherwise or what -- what's the general thought
process?
McClure: Mr. Mayor, that's a really good question. So, we have heard from Council
pretty loud and clear that you are interested in -- in -- in consistency, particularly for
corridors. Newer corridors are going to be different. Sections of Ustick, for example,
have bike lanes and ACHD has completely moved away from that. So, there is -- there
is things that have just changed and will change. I think where we have opportunity for
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these no matter what, particularly as we get into the new areas of the city, is to see the
medians done, which, in my opinion, has the most opportunity for helping with speed
management and, then, ACHD's always -- if they are going to -- if they are going to do
multi-use pathways they are always going to have a buffer between the -- between the
multi pathway and the back of curb or they can't call it a multi-use pathway. So, I think
there will always be opportunities for these. The -- the -- the specific landscape
improvements we put in there, it would be nice if we adhere to a -- a pallet or ran with
something consistent that we have seen elsewhere in the area, but I'm not going to
commit anyone to that now, but I -- I do think we can be consistent with projects moving
forward as we work our way from sort of existing from -- from Victory south on Locust
Grove, for example, I think we can have consistent levels of improvement out there. As
I noted, I think staff is generally comfortable with level one, unless there is other -- some
other reason why we need to do something else.
Simison: And so -- so corridor consistency may be considered where -- we may have a
project comes here to say we shouldn't do this, because it would seem to be awkward in
an environment. That could be an outcome.
McClure: Mr. Mayor, definitely. We -- there is -- there is always going to be -- the nature
of this is there is every -- everything has an exception; right? So, I think we are going to
be working with that constantly. But what we are trying to start for -- start with here is
the city saying this is what we want and, then, ACHD will do their best to implement that.
But you are right, there is -- there is always exceptions.
Simison: Yeah. Because I can see like Black Cat hasn't been improved. McMillan
hasn't been improved. Segments going forward. But if you are going to go back and do
one and it's going to be completely out of character, but, you know, there is -- that can
work in some situations. That's where I was really kind of going to, like, oh, yeah, we
are going to recommend we go to this level, but no other mile segment on that road
would have that, too. I would hope it would be justified why we would want to do one
specific if we -- if we go that route.
McClure: Mr. Mayor, I think an opportunity for a lot of this is to really help ACHD with
speed management. They have been struggling with vertical elements, which is the
way you really get there. If you look at the new section of the Locust Grove it's a
highway. There is hardly any medians out there. There is no landscape buffers. It's --
it's -- I really appreciate all their effort to go out there, but it's sort of tragic that we
missed that, especially when the city requested repeatedly when they were designing
that to be involved. Times have changed, but -- but I -- I think that -- that would be the
case of -- we can do this even if it's not consistent, because what we want to do here is
not necessarily be consistent, but we want to -- we want to find a way to slow traffic
down, so that when we sign it 35 police aren't constantly enforcing 45.
Simison: All the residents appear to be putting up vertical barriers on their property, so
they are -- they are doing what they can to slow people down, even though it won't
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impact traffic speeds. Sorry. Side sidebar. Council, any other questions specifically on
Item 24 for Brian?
Cavener: Mr. Mayor, one real quickly.
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Brian, thanks for this and Council Member Strader I think brought up a good
point that at least had my brain spinning and so I'm curious if the department's
discussed if a -- you know, a landowner owns all four corners and they are trying to do
something -- we have seen some -- the private sector do some things that are kind of
creative and different, does that count towards like -- like an amenity point? Is that
something that your department has considered as like -- it's not qualified open space,
but it does contribute to the -- the character of the community. Definitely I think creates
a sense of place. Is that something the department has explored at least recognizing in
an amenity point style?
McClure: Mr. Mayor, Council, Councilman Cavener, I -- I don't know. So --
Cavener: Okay.
McClure: -- I -- I don't believe -- I believe there is flexibility in the amenity system. I
don't know if we would allow something that's done through a license agreement in the
middle of right of way to count or not though.
Cavener: Okay.
Hood: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: The voice from the sky. Mr. Hood.
Hood: It's Caleb. To potential answer Mr. Cavener's question maybe a little more
directly. We have thought about it. We have not -- in a couple of instances we have not
actually granted the developer any landscape or amenity points for that. In fact, some
of the roundabouts that have been constructed the city hasn't even really been part of
the conversation. It really is something that is negotiated between the Ada County
Highway District and that developer in the right of way. So, it really is sort of outside of
the development review process and -- that the city is involved with anyways and
something that's, again, negotiated between the developer and ACHD.
Cavener: So -- Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Recognize that the time for debate around roundabouts is not this time and
place, I -- I just -- I support when development does these types of things. I do think it
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helps to create a -- a sense of place that I think we as a community are always trying to
do and if there are opportunities down the way for the department to really explore how
we could recognize that it's something that I think would warrant a future conversation.
Simison: Okay. Council, any additional questions on Item 24? Then with that we will
move on to Item 25 officially, regarding the Black Cat-McMillan intersection cost share
discussion. Mr. Hood, did you have anything to add, since your name was officially
listed for myself on this item?
Hood: Mr. Mayor, thank you. Council. And thank you, Brian, for -- for covering that --
integrating that specific project into your presentation on the matrix guide. I don't have
anything. There is a memo there. I apologize that I'm not there in person. I am laid up
currently at home. So, apologies that I'm not there to present in person, but appreciate
Brian covering for me. There are those few areas there that staff recommends. We do
partner with ACHD on the level one improvements to take it above the baseline that we
would otherwise get, which is, essentially, stamped and colored concrete and the Mayor
just used both of these roadways as examples. I think we are setting the stage, then,
for that consistency on McMillan and Black Cat both. When those roadway segments
are widened adjacent we are starting that pattern down that roadway of what likely will
happen in those buffer and media -- center median areas.
Simison: Thank you. Council, any questions or comments for Caleb, Brian, or
generally?
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Yeah. In going through that I -- I think a level one is appropriate for -- for that
particular area and a lot of things I think level one is that approach. So, I'm -- I'm
pleased with that. I -- I was just thinking through Councilman Cavener's remarks about,
you know, credits for that and different things and I was kind of thinking, well, they --
they impact the traffic, they have to have these to make traffic flow, so I wasn't in favor
of giving them any credit, but different -- different view of it and we don't have to cross
that bridge right now, but --
Cavener: Fight for another night.
Hoaglun: That's right. So, for -- but for -- for -- for this having -- having a -- a level one
approach I think will work well and do appreciate the work everyone put into this for the
roundabouts and -- and the matrix. It does -- it does help quite a bit I think for everyone
involved now and in the future.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
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Strader: I'm in favor of it. I appreciated the pedestrian treatment as well and that
seems really important at that roundabout and you said there were enhanced beacons.
So, I -- I think that's important in that location. Thank you.
Simison: So, maybe a practical question for legal or for Brian. It's one thing -- it's -- I --
it's one thing to say this is what we want today. It's another thing when a budget
amendment comes forward. At what point in time do people envision these decisions
actually being made and/or agreed to financially, you know, and this is the consideration
that this is what ACHD actually even builds to a certain extent, you know, but I think that
there is that component and how you -- how you expect --
Hood: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: -- and when. Yes, Caleb.
Hood: I know you directed that more to Brian or -- or Council. If you don't mind, though,
I --
Simison: I forgot you were even on --
Hood: I think I can -- so -- so, Mr. Mayor, it is a good question and Brian pointed it out
when he was going through the matrix, but we are trying to get into these projects and
our elements incorporated earlier in projects and likely that is two or three, four years
before a project actually gets constructed. So, there can be and likely will be some
turnover in leadership. There -- there is a level of commitment, though, a cost share
agreement that we will enter into with ACHD. It's -- it's sort of a general person's
agreement at that point saying we are good for it, but we really aren't committed until we
establish the budget. There is a chance that a future council does not approve that item
in the budget. If so, though, this cost share agreement that the previous council agreed
to we will pay for -- and we are on the hook for redesigning those elements. So, if
ACHD has to expend dollars to redesign something because we renege or rethink of
something that we wanted to put in, we -- and they made that accommodation and we
backtrack, any redesign costs will be billed to the city. So, there is an opportunity to
back out, but there is some level of commitment and saying that we are good for it
earlier on in the process.
Simison: So, Mr. Nary, is there a preferred approach on this for your -- your office or
not, since we are talking about encumbering or not encumbering in any way, shape or
form?
Nary: Yeah. Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, I think what we would end up doing is
in the agreement -- in our ultimate agreement where -- for the cost share would have a
nonappropriation clause to it. So, we would say if we don't fund it in the future I think we
would have the conditions that Mr. Hood just talked about, that we would pay for the
cost of whatever redesign or whatever if they had to redo it. But I think that -- we would
want to have something that says a future council may not fund the project depending
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on how what the cost is or when it is and those kinds of things. So, would like to have
that anyway.
Simison: Is that the preferred approach as compared to having the Council ask for it,
pays for it at the time? I mean it hasn't been bid, so you are never going to get the
exact number, but I guess a future council could undo the budget as well. I mean I'm
just trying to get through this -- this stuff we experience on Eagle when they were doing
that, where we were asking for changes and they weren't willing to accommodate based
upon some of those -- just want to make sure that we are trying to make it -- and, again,
four years out is a long time to be saying here is what we want, even though it's just
landscaping or vertical elements.
Nary: Sure. So, Mr. -- Mr. Mayor, Members of Council, I mean there -- there really is
either way, as -- as the Mayor just stated. I'm either if funded -- funded up front, you
know, ask for what you want, obviously, funded up front with a -- with a -- basically a
number that's a not to exceed, obviously, awaiting a bid or, secondarily, agree to a -- a
generalized number as to what that might be. We could put that in the contract. But we
would put -- create -- create a clause that would say a future council may not fund the
future project based on timing, change, and circumstance, change in situation, whatever
that may be. So, either one of those would be compliant with what the law requires.
So, either one of those are fine from a legal standpoint.
McClure: Mr. Mayor? Emily would I'm sure love this conversation if she was here, but I
-- just if it's helpful, you know, this isn't any different than what we do now. It's not that
it's a good process, but we do this now, we have been doing this for years. The only
thing that's really changed with this, one, we have a matrix to formalize a little bit better,
so that we have greater confidence and -- and greater leverage when we say this is
what we are willing to participate in and, two, ACHD only recently decided they are
going to be doing the -- the -- the credit system. So, that's really where I -- staff is more
interested in this now is because they are willing to give us the money to basically do
things that they wouldn't otherwise do. Again, not that -- not that this process is good,
but this is what we have been doing for a -- a decade.
Simison: And I know that's what we have been doing and, basically, trying to make it so
it's not a conversation in three years where a different council sees this and says what is
this? Why are we doing it this way? Now, granted, if you see it every year for every
project -- for two or three projects maybe they will -- they will -- it will provide that.
That's all. Because it's like -- it's one thing to say this is what we want today. Three
years from now it could be completely different. So, that's all. And there is no good
answer. That's what I'm going to go with. Okay. Any further comments or feedback on
something that we aren't going to make an agreement or decision on for the next three
years? Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Just wishing Caleb a speedy recovery. Something we don't have any
authority to fix or solve either, but we are hopeful for a speedy recovery as well.
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Simison: Thanks. I think he appreciates that, so --
Hood: Thank you.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: I move that we adjourn our work session.
Cavener: Second.
Simison: Have a motion and a second to adjourn the work session. All in favor signify
by saying aye. Opposed nay? The ayes have it. We are adjourned.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 5:33 P.M.
(AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
_10 / 24 / 2023
MAYOR ROBERT E. SIMISON DATE APPROVED
ATTEST:
CHRIS JOHNSON - CITY CLERK