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HomeMy WebLinkAboutJuly 11, 2006 C/C Minutes Meridian City Council July 11, 2006 Page 25 of 64 De Weerd: Okay. Items 13 and 14 were requested to continue to July 25th. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: Have you opened the -- are you opening the public hearings now? De Weerd: These were continued, so -- Bird: The one was. The other isn't. De Weerd: Okay. I will open both Items 13 and 14, both the continued and the new Public Hearing. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: I move that we continue the public hearings for CPA 05-001 and AZ 06-008, to July 25th, 2006. Rountree: Second. De Weerd: Okay. Motion to continue Items 13 and 14 to July 25th. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 15: Public Hearing: AZ 06-015 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 182.60 acres to R-8 (Medium Density Residential) (168.23 acres), TN-R (Traditional Neighborhood-Residential) (10.42 acres) and C-N (Neighborhood Business) (3.94 acres) for Tanana Valley Subdivision (f.k.a. - Lookout Ridge Subdivision) by Farwest, LLC - southeast corner of Meridian Road and Victory Road: Item 16: Public Hearing: PP 06-013 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 548 single family residential lots, 1 commercial lot, 1 school lot and 20 common lots on 182.60 acres in a proposed R-8, TN-R and C-N zones for Tanana Vallev Subdivision (f.k.a. - Lookout Ridge Subdivision) by Farwest, LLC - southeast corner of Meridian Road and Victory Road: De Weerd: Items 15 and 16 are public hearings on AZ 06-015 and PP 06-013. I will open these two public hearings with staff comments. Meridian City Council July 11, 2006 Page 26 of 64 Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is the -- let's see if I can get it right. I think it's Tanana Valley project. It's not Tanana. That's all I know. It doesn't rhyme with banana. And so the applicant will have to give me the correct pronunciation for that. It is -- it's located -- here we go. At the corner of Meridian and Victory and it includes several parcels, but it also has some -- several -- or a few out parcels. This is one out parcel. This is the second out parcel. And this is -- the grange is kind of the third out parcel. It does incorporate these two. Reflection Ridge Subdivision is just south of there. You may recall. This gives you a little better idea of the platting activity that we have had. This is the Tanana project and, then, this is Reflection Ridge down here. De Weerd: So, Anna, what is your name? Canning: Anna. I figure I need a lot here, so I can have more A's and N's in my address, so -- okay. This is the site plan. Let's see what we have got. We have got an annexation and zoning applicant and preliminary plat. The annexation and zoning is for R-8 for the majority of the project. TN-R for a portion. This is shown on the Comprehensive Plan as a neighborhood center, so this would be the TN-R portion here. And a C-N portion for this commercial lot right there at the entrance. It is 182.6 acres. The preliminary plat approval would be for 548 single family residential lots. The one commercial lot. One school lot. And 20 common lots on 177.94 acres. And as far as the R-8 zone goes, there is 178 acres. The TN-R there is 10.42 acres. And the C-N -- oh, I have got 10.42 again. Probably one of those is wrong. I apologize for that. Can't do the math in my head. The gross residential density is 3.09 units per acre. So, that leaves an average lot size in the development of 8,750 square feet. There are about 24 acres of the site being set aside for open space and that would be 13.5 percent. So, let me give you a brief tour of the property. You have a collector road coming in off of Victory that comes and crosses the Ridenbaugh and to the southern portion of the property -- this does start to get some slope in here. You have the existing home. We do -- we did require them to stub the cul-de-sac to the existing home, so that it could eventually not take access from Meridian Road. You have an entry street, a collector street, coming in at the half mile from Meridian Road and it's in the same location as Rumple Lane. We did require that the -- or we did ask the developer to go out and get - - purchase the property that Rumple Lane sits on, so that we can take care of the issue of, basically, making Rumple Lane go away and he's solved that problem. And, then, the road now would come in and it would T. This southern portion would go into Reflection Ridge and, then, the other portion would come into this project. And you have two -- two entrances to the project from there. You have a large central park -- oh, no, that's not a park. There is a house on it still. Someone -- it's a very large house on that lot right now. And, then, you have the alley-loaded portion here. The school would take access basically in this area. The applicant has made almost all the modifications requested of staff and the Planning and Zoning Commission and that's represented in this site plan that you see tonight. There were some things that were kind of new. One of the things was a stub to this street, to this out parcel, and they reconfigured this corner here. They had -- let's see if I have a better one than that one. If this street continues along, it would come into the school site there, but we are a little concerned Meridian City Council July 11, 2006 Page 27 of 64 that this corner that's left for the school may not be very usable back here. The former layout kind of stopped the lots, really, in this area. So, they have kind of bumped out this one lot. I usually don't go into that detail, but this did happen after the Planning and Zoning Commission, so I wanted to bring it up. Okay. Moving on. There is no details yet on the 3.94 acres of the commercial. That will come at a latter time. There are provisions that it needs to comply with the C-N zoning. We do require a landscape buffer adjoining the residential in that area and there was also a pathway connection. You know, I went through and fixed these and, then, somebody burned the wrong copy onto this thumb drive, so -- now I can't find the commercial one. That's not commercial. There it is. Thank you. This is rotated. So, this is Victory Road. This is Meridian Road. So, there is a -- there is a pathway connection there now. It's right there. They also added an emergency access out to Victory Road for the fire department in that location. So, again, they have addressed most of the concerns. There are a lot of kind of site specific provisions in the development agreement. I'll go through them quickly. One was that the C-N area -- all future uses comply with the C-N zoning. That the applicant agrees to construct and provide for the maintenance of the 20 foot wide land use buffer between the C-N and the residential zoning. That the applicant agrees to annex the Rumple Lane property, include it within the boundary of the concurrent subdivision. That except for emergency access as required by the fire department, the applicant agrees to relinquish any interest this property may have in Rumple Lane. That one public street access will be allowed to Meridian Road located one half mile south of Victory Road. Direct lot access to Meridian Road shall be prohibited. That the applicant should construct sidewalk adjacent to the out parcel on Victory Road and adjacent to the out parcel on Meridian Road. I had those backwards. Victory Road and Meridian Road. And, then, a note that if the construction and easement for the pathway is not allowed in writing by the owner of the out parcel, the applicant agrees to bond or provide another city-approved method for providing assurance that the pathway improvements in that area are constructed. I hope that makes sense. So, we have gotten a commitment that they will go talk to those folks and see if they can construct a pathway, so that we can complete those pathways. If they are not able to -- and they have something in writing saying I won't let them build a pathway on my property, then, we will try and find some other way of having that happen in the future. And the applicant agrees to construct a multi-use pathway through the site from the southeast corner to Meridian Road and that the city has accepted the applicant's proposal to construct a pool within this development. And, finally, that a maximum of 548 single family lots shall be platted on the property. The Commission did recommend approval at their June 1 st hearing. Justin Martin spoke in favor of the application. Lorelei Smith, Russell Chaney, Mert Logue and Lisa Sullivan spoke in opposition and no one commented. The key issues of discussion by the Commission were the dedication of the school lot and improvements being made to that lot within the development. For example, the construction -- or not constructing the street landscape buffer. The construction of the pedestrian path along the out parcel on Meridian Road. The types of housing products proposed. The anticipated uses of the C-N zone lot and the expected build out rate. The key Commission changes -- they did recommend approval of the modified preliminary plat. They granted the applicant's request to delay construction and landscaping around the school lot and the commercial lot until they develop and they Meridian City Council July 11, 2006 Page 28 of 64 accepted the applicant's proposal to construct a pool and a pathway adjacent to the out parcel on Meridian Road and to maintain a maximum 548 single family lots. As far as outstanding issues, prior to the City Council hearing, the applicant was going to approach the owner of the out parcel on Meridian to see if that owner would allow the construction of the pathway. Staff would recommend that the Council just get an update from the applicant on that. The applicant has provided a response to the staff report. They had some clarifications to the conditions and we had -- we had added a sentence in the wrong spot, so it needed to be shifted. And we -- we agree with all those comments and those -- we can add those comments into the findings if Council so chooses. With that I will answer any questions that you may have. De Weerd: Council, do you have any questions at this time? Bird: At this time I do not. Rountree: Not right now. De Weerd: Okay. Is the applicant here? If you will, please, state your name and address for the record. Martin: Justin Martin. 5606 North Ten Mile Road. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I have just a brief PowerPoint presentation and, then, again, a brief description of some of the points Anna has already spoke about. Bird: Pronounce the subdivision. Martin: Tanana Valley. Bird: Tanana. Martin: Tanana Valley. De Weerd: Who thinks of these names? Martin: That would be Marty. Canning: Better than Saguaro, anyway. De Weerd: Yeah. Remember Saguaro. Saguaro. Saguaro was a good one. Martin: Lochsa is pretty difficult, too, for the people that live there. The project has four distinctive groups of lot sizes. There is a couple of reasons. One for price point differences for marketing and, two, as we think it adds some benefit to the community to have a more diverse community and a more diverse subdivision layout. The projects are getting large enough now that they can definitely stand to have more diversity in them. This is a breakdown of our lot sizes. Two hundred twenty-five is a lot -- or, sorry, Meridian City Council July 11, 2006 Page 29 of 64 228 lots are the 70 and 80 foot wide lots. One hundred thirty-seven of the lots are 60 and 70 feet wide. One hundred five lots are 50 to 60 feet wide. And, then, there is 77 lots in their traditional neighborhood residential areas, there is ten acres in there that are 30 to 40 feet wide. This is a breakdown. Basically, the preliminary plat note sheet that comes on a preliminary plat, Anna did a good job of describing this already. We are asking for R-8 zoning on the majority of the property. It, obviously, allows up to the eight units per acre traditional neighborhood residential and C-N. We went with the C- N, instead of traditional neighborhood commercial, just because of -- we thought maybe there was some viability problems or -- on the intersection down at Victory Road there is commercial and I know there is the neighborhood center proposed there. It seemed a little bit difficult. So, we made it too small to be traditional neighborhood commercial. I think -- I can't remember for sure that maybe the minimum is six acres, if it is less than that, and that's why the staff asked us to go with C-N instead. The minimum lot size is 3,200 square feet. The minimum home size is 1,400 square feet. The average lot size is 8,700 -- you're getting -- Canning: Sorry. Martin: No. You're all right. The open space in the project is -- is, as Anna said, above 13 percent. The usable open space defined by code is 11 percent. Victory Road and Meridian Road both have 60 foot buffers on our plan. I think the city's code requires 35 on Meridian and 25 on Linder Road. Our collector buffers are 45 feet wide and I believe the requirement is 25. There is also some large -- large area east and west. One is in the back of some lots. One is along the Ridenbaugh Canal. We have just been -- in our past projects we have been increasing our landscape buffers in every one and we definitely find it useful to the presentation of the subdivision and the interest from the community in the project. So, we have been making those larger each time. Borton: In the project we will have several playgrounds -- basically tot lots throughout the project, playground areas for the kids to come and play. We will incorporate a neighborhood pool into the project. Sorry for black and white pictures. And the fencing. This is, basically, just kind of a list of some of the amenities that -- the developer is not allowed to do a bunch of things that add to these projects based on code and design, but we do our best to add things we can. The fencing would be another one. We will definitely use some sort of upgraded fencing as shown here from examples from our project. We won't use the standard lowest cost cedar we can find. We will have something unique about it. The tree lined streets have kind of been -- have kind of followed us since -- well, since before I was with Marty and Farwest anyway. '98, Thousand Springs was the first project I was involved in. And the tree lined streets add a lot. I know the code has changed now to where if we have trees in the planter strip, it's a minimum of six feet wide in that parkway. And if it's six feet, we need to add root barriers. We are more than willing to do that. We feel that it adds a lot from the street view presentation of the home. It also adds a lot for the safety feeling of the people walking on the sidewalk. The pathways and connectivity in the project, a lot of the connectivity between the blocks in the project, the five foot pathways that we have installed, a lot of those were the request of staff and we had no problems with installing Meridian City Council July 11, 2006 Page 30 of 64 those. It just made sense. The Ridenbaugh Canal is the large pathway east-west that's a ten foot pathway on the south side of the canal. Those connect to the pathway by Reflection Ridge and down Meridian Road there is also a ten foot pathway. The rest of the dark marks in there reflect five foot sidewalk that will be the connectivity or on Victory Road. This picture shows an out parcel on Meridian Road. I got a picture of this, because I wanted you to be able to see the topography in this instance. The staff has asked that we put a ten foot pathway around or through this out parcel on Meridian Road. And on Victory Road there was two instances that ACHD asked to put the sidewalk around or through these parcels. We have no problem with doing those things. But this instance is a little bit different. The right of way for ITD goes right to the top of that slope and the out parcel starts with the concrete up at the top. It's definitely difficult to say the best. I did talk with the owner of this parcel and he's willing to look at some design ideas and some plans on how we could bring it across his property. His biggest concern -- two concerns he has. One is mature landscaping up there and how we affect that. And the second is his -- just the general security of the house. He's, obviously, been used to being out there by himself, no activity, no people driving -- or walking by, anyway. Definitely people driving by. And so I understand where his concerns are coming from. I would hope that we could come up with some design ideas along with staff, along with that out parcel owner, that would work for him. In the case that we can't come up with those ideas, I don't want to be forced to build something through the ITD right of way on this sort of a slope. It would be a major undertaking, to say the least, to figure out how to get a retaining wall, how to make that retaining wall safe and, then, build that around there on the slope. I am willing to bond for the pathway across his property in the case that he ever comes in front of the Councilor in front of the staff for some sort of redevelopment on his property. I'm willing to pay for the pathway or put up the money to pay for the pathway in the future. I don't know how else to say it. I think this explains it fairly well. We did ask ITD as well if we could move the pathway into their right of way and as of now they have said no. We did submit a landscape plan originally to ITD, which is definitely premature at this point, but it showed our ten foot pathway down Meridian Road in their right of way through the whole distance and they said back to us, no, that doesn't work for us. And so that's kind of another reason why we went to the right of way. That's pretty much the end of the PowerPoint section of the presentation. So, the -- one of the other issues -- maybe not an issue, but the items in our project is the school site. We have been working with Wendell Bigham to work out the details of the contract on that school site and we do have a contract at this point that his attorney is agreeable with and we are agreeable with. I simply need to get it signed and get it back to him. I met with Wendell yesterday morning. He talked to his attorney on the phone while I was there and they are both in agreement that we have a contract that works. He did request -- and I am requesting that the buffer strip on the school site related to Victory Road be built when the school site builds, that way the landscaping is all done and maintained by one entity, the irrigation is done and maintained by one entity. We have no problems with building the sidewalk across the out parcel to the west of the school site and across the school site and also across the grange, which is on the far east side of our property. But as far as the landscape buffer itself goes, we propose putting that into an easement at this point and when they construct, they would agree to construct that as well. Meridian City Council July 11, 2006 Page 31 of 64 Borton: Justin? Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Uh-huh. Martin: Yes. Borton: I don't mean to interrupt, but in this particular I think Anna had pointed to this area here. This doesn't show those. Martin: Yeah. It doesn't -- yeah. The color picture it doesn't show a stub street going to that out parcel west of the school site. Staff had asked us to add a stub street to the out parcel from the -- from the east -- or, sorry, from the west and the police department had also asked that we make some changes in that area. So, we did that. And since, then, there has been two lots added directly south of that out parcel in part of the area that is a school site now that -- this shows it really well. And Anna's concern -- I believe, if I understood it correctly, is that there is kind of a triangle back in there and we have six foot solid fencing in that area, if it's going to be some sort of a hazard, I'm sure the police department isn't going to be interested in that. I'm not sure if that's what Anna was saying, but that's how I was following it. And is what I would suggest is we would go from the northeast corner of that last lot and take that lot line and run it more on an angle up to the out parcel, which would take away the problem of people being able to be in an area that you couldn't see them. We did resubmit this drawing to -- to the school department -- or the school district. They have submitted it to their -- to their designers, their designers redesigned the layout and incorporated a 25 foot landscape easement, incorporated these lots being in that position, and they were fine with that layout. Their school is going to be on the east side of the property. The west side where this triangle or site vision area kind of has a problem there would be open space anyway, but they are not going to have a problem with this changing the dimension, taking that triangle out, basically, by changing the lot lines of those lots. I would hope that we could work with staff to do that at a later date. It seems like a fairly minor -- minor change. Does that answer your question? Borton: It did. Yes. Martin: Okay. Canning: And, Justin, I never mentioned this. Madam Mayor and the Council, this isn't a traditional school site, it is an alternative school site, so it isn't an elementary. Martin: Yeah. Very good point. It's similar to the school site that's on Locust Grove near Chinden. Chinden and Locust Grove. The traffic studies are extremely minimal for these sorts of sites in comparison to any of the other standard school sites. There was - - anyway, that's probably enough said about that. Some general background would be that traffic signals -- ACHD is going to construct a traffic signal on Victory and Meridian Road this summer. We donated a little bit of ground right there at the corner. If we Meridian City Council July 11, 2006 Page 32 of 64 looked at our landscape area you could see a little bit of a cut out, it was more of just for their room to construct that. The Harrison Meridian Road access to our property, which is half a mile south of Victory Road on Meridian, deserves a traffic signal. ACHD requested that we provide 50 percent of the bond or surety money up front, so they could construct that when other parties came into play, when other developments come forward, that they would get part of those funds from them and ACHD would construct it with those. Also, fairly far removed from this project up at Overland Road in Meridian, ACHD says in 2009 they are going to update that intersection to be able to help some of the backup traffic that's happening down Meridian Road at this point. Quite a bit of back up from -- from people coming in from Kuna in the morning commute. There was some conversation about these issues, because the neighbors had concerns about traffic in general and ACHD did say that that would help out substantially, not that it would solve the problem by any means. A couple other just general things. One would be that -- I would request -- I know that normally the staff has the ability on final plats to -- to allow minor changes and I guess I would just request that we have the ability to make minor changes and adjustments to our open space areas on final plat and in doing so we would agree not to make any changes to the number of lots. We wouldn't add any lots, we would not decrease the open space percentage that we originally had. It's just as we go to final design sometimes there is some changes that become obvious and if staff would agree with those, we would hope that we could make those at final plat. And, then, the last comment is in the center of the project there is a large -- a large property, a single lot and block, it's 6.93 acres roughly -- roughly seven acres in there. It has an existing home on it that was built about 30 years, 20 some years ago. It's a substantial house. It's definitely impressive and we haven't fully decided what we are going to do with that property yet and there is a hill there, it's on a slope, the topography is interesting. There is a lot of reasons why we didn't show this area in lots. And, to be honest, we don't know whether we are going to go forward. We have laid some lots out in there, talked about doing a re-subdivide, but it just needed more time to think about it. So, as of now we have left that as a single lot and block. I just wanted to let you be aware that it's possible that we would come back in for a re-subdivide and, obviously, you will have full chances at helping us to lay that out and design that as well. Just didn't think it would be fair if I didn't mention it at this point, that we don't know for sure which way we are going to go with that lot and block. We may actually submit for a re- subdivide, depending what we come up with. De Weerd: Okay. Your time is up. Martin: The last thing is I would just hope that you would approve our project and take into account the notes in the letter that I had sent out to staff. Hopefully you will have copies of those. I'd stand for any questions. De Weerd: Council, any questions for the applicant at this time? Bird: I have none. Rountree: Madam Mayor? Meridian City Council July 11,2006 Page 33 of 64 De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Rountree. Rountree: You mentioned a pool. Where would that be? Martin: The pool would be coming in on the main collector way. You can see a picture. There is a -- basically, right after the first -- as you come in the main entryway, the larger area to the right in this picture. Yeah. Thank you. I would use the pointer, but I can't hold it straight. It wouldn't work for me. That's the area that we have done preliminary designs on a pool. I wouldn't want to guarantee it at this point, depending on what we do. It's possible that that seven acre site would incorporate some things like that. I'm more than willing to guarantee that we would have a pool in this project and we will have a community pool in this project. Currently that's the location that we are hoping it to be in. Rountree: Thank you. Martin: Thank you. De Weerd: Now, is this south, then, of where Victory Greens -- Martin: This is south of Victory Greens and between us and Victory Greens would be Observation Point, more directly connected to it. Our main entryway on Victory Road connects to the main entryway of Observation Point. We tried to do that, because -- because ACHD and we believe in those connections for the possibility of future signalization. De Weerd: So, you are across the street yourself of-- Martin: We definitely are. And I realize those are really nice neighborhoods, wonderful homes over there, and the reason our density is closer to them -- our higher density, is because of the way the Comprehensive Plan is drawn. I know that the city spent years designing those and we do our best to try and follow them to what extent we can. De Weerd: Okay. As far as the road goes, will you be doing any widening along the frontage of your development? Martin: I honestly can't answer that fully. I know that we will be having some turn lanes -- some center turn lanes, some right turn lanes into the project. Ben Thomas, our engineer, is here, he could answer that probably better, but we really haven't went to final design, besides right-hand turn lanes, center turn lane requirements based on the traffic report and ACHD's comments. Widening further than that, I don't have a good answer. Ben Thomas would have to -- De Weerd: Okay. Well, we will probably want to hear from them -- I guess my issue is as we looked at the CIP for Ada County Highway District, a lot of these roads are not in Meridian City Council July 11, 2006 Page 34 of 64 the plan for widening or even a minor arterial. So, we are very concerned about the infrastructure down there and I guess my point of view and I certainly -- it's mine personally, is development is going to have to step up and be a part of that transportation solution if they want to develop these kind of densities. Martin: Our company would agree with that -- that theory that you have just stated. We have stated that in several meetings with other developers. If other developers would step up and support that, if agencies would find a way to help us go in those areas or come up with plans that -- that were more evenly spread across the community, instead of just one company stepping up and saying they will do those things, we are more than willing to be involved in that sort of a process. I don't know a fair or equitable situation or solution at this point until some agency -- until one of the agencies helps the developers come to that conclusion as well. De Weerd: Well, I know that the developers are really stepping up in the north Meridian area with the intersection improvements and that is what's going to have to happen down here, at least to help traffic flow. Martin: I agree. I think north Meridian was a good chance for the developers to get together and when I talk about north Meridian, I mean from Ten Mile east to Locust Grove, from Chinden down to Ustick, was a good chance for the developers to get together and do better improvements or more improvements. The amount of developers that were in the area at one time were able to get in a room and talk. There is a lot more that could have been done if they were helped to be nudged in that fashion. I probably -- I'm just rambling on. I should leave that alone. De Weerd: I can ramble, too, so -- well, thank you. And we will ask your engineer up towards -- in your concluding remarks. Martin: Thank you. De Weerd: Or, Council, would you like to hear from him now? Okay. Thank you. I do have several people who have signed up to indicate their for or against. When I call your name if you'd like to provide testimony, please, come forward. Mert Logue. And I will already apologize if I mispronounce your name. If you will, please, state your name and address for the record. Logue: Mert Logue. Address is 574 East Observation Drive in Observation Point, Meridian, Idaho. 83642. De Weerd: Thank you. Logue: Madam Mayor and Members of the Council, appreciate being here tonight. I am in opposition to the subdivision as it's here plotted tonight. A couple issues. One is the density level and we have talked about that with ACHD and our issue is we are dealing with a lot of cut-through traffic right now through Observation Point across Meridian City Council July 11, 2006 Page 35 of 64 Meridian Greens and up to Overland Road and a lot of what's driving that is the congestion that's happening on Meridian Road and the fact that Locust doesn't, you know, go across 1-84 yet. The schedule for fixing the intersection at Overland is out two years, so it's probably going to be three years before anything really happens there and the same with the -- with that Locust Grove project going across the interstate to relieve some of that. And with what's going on in Kuna, the growth that's happening there, as well as what's happening, you know, with Meridian, there is just a tremendous amount of traffic that's happening there and it's -- in the last six months it's changed immensely. And so we have an issue with traffic. At Observation Point there is a blind hill at the top of the Observation Drive at Altros where it turns into and it's blind from both sides and right now there is no signs there or traffic -- a means to slow that traffic down or to help with the speeds going through there in the alignment with two subdivisions, although I agree it makes sense, I think it's basically going to promote more cut-through traffic when people have to, you know, go out and turn out and, then, deal with Meridian Road. It is about a mile and a half cut through, but it's very -- it's a very pleasant drive and it's a whole lot better than sitting through five or six light changes and they can zip right out to Overland and, then, head for Eagle or cut back and hook up onto the freeway there at Meridian Road. And in the morning there is -- there is a commercial property there where a lot of people are already cutting through that just to get around. The other issue I have is with the row housing that they have there is -- is investment property and we are a nice neighbor, Meridian Greens, Observation Point, Glacier Springs, even Tuscany below is really a pretty nice neighborhood. When I went through Tuscany here recently, I was surprised by how many of the properties in there are rental properties, investment properties, and also the difference so far as, you know, homeowner, ownership, versus a renter and a piece of property and how it's maintained and up kept and I'm concerned about the row housing. Those are not going to be retired people going in there, they are two story. Retired people don't want to go up and down stairs. And I'm worried about that and what's going to happen, you know, one, two years down the road. I recently sold some townhouses of my own and they did go to an investor. I was sure that they would be taken care of and recently saw them and they are in horrible shape. So, I'm concerned about that. And I guess, lastly, the neighborhood property there -- there is a bit of inconsistency with what's going on with the point with Meridian -- Victory Greens and, then, on the -- what would be the northwest corner of Meridian there at the intersection of Victory where all the neighborhood commercial properties are pushed right up to Meridian Road and we'd just like to -- if this is going to stay this way, that we maybe take the neighborhood commercial site and push it more up to the corner, as well as this higher density. Although I really am opposed to that. I'd like to see the minimum lot size, you know, more than 6,500 to 8,700 minimum lot size. I know the developers are well within their requirements as far as the density that they are asking for, but I would really -- I would more like to see that it be more -- more affluent to what Observation and the existing subdivisions that are being developed right now. De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions? Bird: I have none. Meridian City Council July 11, 2006 Page 36 of 64 De Weerd: I do want to let you know that we have a traffic safety committee and it's offered through our police department. If you'd like to contact them with your concerns about the blind corners, we have citizens, our police officers, and Ada County Highway District that serve on that. They can take a look at it and see if they can bring forth some recommendations on making it a safer place. Logue: Okay. Appreciate that. De Weerd: So, if you can contact our police department on that. Logue: Okay. Thank you. Nary: Madam Mayor, Lieutenant Overton is the chair, so if he wants to contact Lieutenant Overton -- De Weerd: I didn't think Lieutenant Overton was over there. Nary: No. Logue: Thank you. De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Mr. Richard Chaney signed up against. If you will, please, state your name and address. Chaney: Yes. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, my name is Richard Chaney. live at 448 East Observation Drive in Meridian. De Weerd: Thank you. Chaney: I'm here for myself, but also representing the homeowners association with Observation Point. I don't have any major different comments than what Mr. Logue expressed. I just want to reiterate a few of the points. We do already have a problem in Observation Point. I understand -- I was at the planning and zoning, we discussed the traffic as well. I understand that the applicant has probably driven through a few times and looked at the traffic, but we do deal with it as residents every day and there is probably no better expert and I can tell you without a doubt that we do have traffic issues, the cut-through that Mr. Logue identified. And having the main entrance directly across from ours is just going to facilitate further issues of that. Our -- we only have 87 homes in our division. This is 548 homes. There is going to be a significant portion, especially with this density connected to this major feeder of traffic that's going to be pushed up. I think that -- I'm sure the Council is well aware of what goes on in Meridian Road in the mornings, what the traffic there looks like. It's certainly not unquestionable that we are going to get quite a bit more traffic from the residents of this division. And that is a big concern for safety and we will certainly address it with the police department, traffic, safety -- we have already been working with ACHD to a certain Meridian City Council July 11, 2006 Page 37 of 64 extent on that. So, we are going to continue that. But it is a concern for this division. And also as Mr. Logue pointed out, that the way this is structured, the most dense parts of this division, according to the neighboring divisions, Meridian Greens, Observation Point, and Glacier Springs, the most dense pieces are the ones closest to us. The large lots are the ones that are furthest away. And it's not that our homeowners are against the development. We certainly understand that we live in a growing community and we are all for the growth, we just want to keep some consistency and some feasibility with this and it seems like just crowding all of this higher density against our division seems a little bit backwards to us and also as Mert pointed out, these higher density homes are going to be at the lower price points. Those are the price points that are the most attractive to investment properties right now and we do have a concern, not so much with the density, but this density leads to more investment type of activity and we are very concerned with homeowners of basically putting an investment community right across from us, whereas, you know, this nice natural boundary kind of shows what will happen, we will have an investment community up here and, then, we will have an owner community down here. And, then, I guess the final point is -- is the commercial. I certainly understand the concept of the neighborhood commercial, but it does seem out of place. There is already commercial right here on this corner. There is neighborhood commercial being developed across Meridian Road on the north side of Victory. To hide this commercial back here, it's going to be very unattractive commercial, because you're going to have all these businesses up here, these guys are not going to be able to be seen. It's going to be basically low rent type of businesses, instead of nicer community businesses that you would want. It certainly makes more sense to have these commercial in one of these corners where they don't have access from Meridian Road. We are not advocating breaking the access rules at the mile and half mile, but at least a little visibility from the main thoroughfare to keep that as a more higher end business where they are not having to spend a tremendous amount of money advertising to get people in and they have some visibility and we just don't want this to become a low end commercial either. So, just a little expansion on what Mr. Logue said. No other major points. If anyone has any questions. De Weerd: No, I don't. You know, I have a comment. You know -- and I don't say this in jest, but I know when your development came in front of Council I was on Council at the time and I never imagined I'd hear you say you were getting cut-through traffic from Meridian Greens. Chaney: When I bought that house I would have never dreamt. I would have never dreamt myself. De Weerd: All the cross-through traffic we are going to get from that development, so they are using your roads and that's what we told them they would probably end up doing. Chaney: I have no issue with people using the roads. That's what they are there for. I have issue with people using the roads at excessive speeds on a blind corner and that's what we are working with ACHD on, that's what I will deal with. Meridian City Council July 11, 2006 Page 38 of 64 De Weerd: Yes. Please do. Chaney: Meridian Police on. But it is a blind hill. It's there. Nobody's going to remedy the hill. So, anything that we can do to, you know, keep from exacerbating an existing problem is certainly something that I look forward to. De Weerd: Very good. Thank you. Chaney: Thank you. De Weerd: Christine Tulk. Signed up against. Thank you. Okay. Those are the names that were signed up. Is there anyone else who would like to provide testimony on this application? Okay. If there is no further public testimony, I would like to ask first the engineer for the project to address maybe some of the traffic concerns. Wardle: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Wardle. Wardle: Before we do that, if we could have maybe Mr. Inselman just talk a little bit about alignment of roads and how ACHD measures their traffic -- or their warrants for a traffic signal. Does that make sense? Gary? De Weerd: Okay. We will just ask you to give it a try. Inselman: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Gary Inselman, representing ACHD, at 3775 North Adams, Garden City. It is the highway district policy to align or off-set the public street intersections along the arterials. There is a -- with Observation Point there was a concern with their entrance with the proximity of the canal and the hill to the east, that was the one location that we could make that one work and that was some wrangling with the developer at that time to get it in a good spot for the site distance with the hill. To move the entrance for this development would mean to move it further west, which gets us into closer proximity to the Victory-69 intersection, which wouldn't be desirable either. So, the highway district was supportive of this location for the intersection. Would it meet future warrants for a traffic signal I couldn't say and I'm not an expert on the warrants for a signal, but if in the future there was a problem and we looked at it and it meant warrants, it would certainly get on the list for improvements. I would like to clarify those -- well, the Overland-69 intersection is scheduled to go out to bid this year, not in '09. De Weerd: Gary, I guess in our meeting on Monday we understood that there would be a study going on in this area for the streets and/or roads and what can be done. Is this area also included in the study area that was discussed? Meridian City Council July 11, 2006 Page 39 of 64 Inselman: Madam Mayor, I can't recall off the top of my head if it was from 69 west or from Eagle Road west and I apologize for that. De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions for Mr. Inselman? Thank you. Thomas: Madam Mayor, Council Members, Ben Thomas with Briggs Engineering, 1800 Overland in Boise. 83705. De Weerd: Thank you. Thomas: While there are no plans to improve Victory Road to its full section, the traffic study that was commissioned and ACHD's subsequent approval conditions for the subdivision will require, excuse me, a dedicated left turn lane into the main entrance here, as well as a dedicated right turn in. Also, when the signal is constructed at Victory and Meridian, there will be dedicated left turn lanes there, as well as dedicated right turn lanes. So, I guess what I'm saying is most of the improvements from this intersection going west out to Meridian will be constructed, because -- just because of the turn lanes. As we add turn lanes here we will be widening the pavement almost to its ultimate location. Additionally, they will be constructing a sidewalk, so it won't be fully improved, but it will be nearly there. De Weerd: And did I understand Mr. Martin to say that it's donated right of way? Thomas: Yeah. Actually, I think that Victory has just recently been reclassified as a collector or, excuse me, an arterial, which ACHD will be buying the additional right of way. De Weerd: And what did your study show on 69? Thomas: Well, it showed, obviously, warrants are met for a signal at Victory and 69, which that -- I understand that from ACHD that that project has been fully funded and will be constructed. De Weerd: And is there any need for a right of way on 69? Thomas: As far as I know, no. I believe it's a fully improved five lane arterial right now. De Weerd: And there is no-- Thomas: ITD in their comments didn't make any recommendations to that effect. De Weerd: Okay. Any questions for-- Thomas: Thank you. De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Mr. Martin, would you like to wrap this up? Meridian City Council July 11,2006 Page 40 of 64 Martin: Justin Martin. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the right of way on this project -- in the past we have never actually sold any of the right of way, our additional right of way to ACHD in the past. This project happens to be an example of where we would have the opportunity to sell that because of the classification that Mr. Thomas just pointed out. In the past we have simply cut out those areas into a lot and block and dedicated them to them and when you say in the past, I mean since '98, since I have been working with Farwest. So, this will be the first example of where maybe we will possibly be paid for that right of way. But definitely the full width -- the ability to widen the road to its final potential will be there on any of the lands that we own adjacent to Victory Road. Meridian Road -- we have had no indication from ITD -- again, I submitted to them earlier a right of way request -- a permit request to have the pathway in their right of way. We showed them a landscape plan and the whole layout for the project and we had no feedback, except to say that that was going to be the maximum width and size of that road for some time to come in the way of five lane. Our density was an issue I heard earlier in the traditional neighborhood residential. There is no question that those price points on those homes will be less than the rest of the project. As we all know, prices have been going through the roof investments -- out-of-state investors have been buying like crazy for the past year and a half and the way I see the market is that that has came to a halt, the price point has gotten so high that we will see that slow to a trickle. We will see these sorts of trends -- maybe they are cycles, better than trends happening on and off. We expect the price point on those smaller densities, the ten acre traditional neighborhood residential to be between 270 and 300 thousand, the final price on the home and lot. I don't see that as something a lot of us are going to want to rent when there is -- it's just a lot of -- that's probably enough said. That's what I feel the price point on those lots will be at this time, lot and home in the smaller point will be 270 to 300 thousand dollars at the time of development. Ben talked about the turn lanes in and out. In north Meridian -- I heard you asking Mr. Inselman about if this area was inside the study area for the streets. In north Meridian on Havasu Creek and Saguaro Canyon and Lochsa Falls project we had agreed to be a part of an L-I-D if it came later and I guess, you know, we would be interested in doing that in this area, provided any other projects that come after us have the same sort of requirement. I know you didn't ask, but we have kind of held up that sort of policy in the past and we would like to continue it, if it's needed or required. I'd stand for any questions. Rountree: Madam Mayor. Do you have any examples of the type of product you will be providing, both in the alley loaded as, well as the residential lots and the commercial? Martin: I do not -- I do not have any examples. The commercial -- the commercial area is a guessing game for me to say at best. That area will have a chance, the opportunity to come back in front of you for the view, the elevation, and to make sure that those products look -- look good and fit the area in presentation at the least. We would see things such as dentist's office, other neighborhood friendly uses that we have seen around town, such as Heritage Commons or some neighborhood -- maybe not neighborhood centers, there is some commercial areas on Eagle Road that -- like physical therapy offices. On Lochsa Falls we have some office lots that are going to go Meridian City Council July 11. 2006 Page 41 of 64 in up on Chinden Road that relate to our project out on the frontage in those sorts of areas. Areas that, hopefully, people either use from the community in a subdivision and/or either work at those sorts of areas would be the hope. I'm not a commercial developer. I would be -- I would be misspeaking if I led you any further than that to say that I hope that you'll get to see those lots in the future, the elevations, have a chance to show what they look like and I would imagine anything that goes in is going to be aimed towards commercial, towards the neighborhood feel where it's not on a corner intersection, it's, obviously, not going to draw from miles and miles around. As far as the view of the homes or the elevations and the look of the homes, a good example of some developments in town would be Heritage Commons again of smaller lots. They have commercial out front. They have a park down -- as you go through those commercial there is a park in the center of the project. There is some really narrow lots on either side of the park. The same developer out on the other side of Boise developed some -- some fairly nice examples of those sort of housing. I have seen some bad examples of those kind of housing and we don't plan to be in that group. All of our projects in the past have had strict ACC guidelines. Marty Goldsmith actually goes out to the site and inspects every home as it finishes to make sure they have followed those guidelines. We haven't came up with the final guidelines for this smaller -- this higher density area yet, but we have been starting to work on those sorts of things, looking at what we like, looking at what we don't like, figuring out how to incorporate that into a document to be able to get that sort of product. We also review in house every set of construction plans for the homes on every lot in every subdivision that gets approved. That has been our standard in the past -- the past three years anyway and prior to that we had other people reviewing those plans for us, so -- but we have taken a more active role lately and we would hope to produce -- or we will produce a nice product. We will pick the examples that worked, as opposed to the examples that didn't to try and follow or come up with something new. With that I'd stand for any other questions. De Weerd: I guess I would just add to what Councilman Rountree had said, that we have seen a lot of bad examples and we are not interested in duplicating those mistakes by not asking for elevations and I think it's also something that the neighbors should be able to view as well. I know the quality of your subdivisions. In fact, if -- when you had your neighborhood meeting I would imagine you would have shown some of the examples of your other subdivisions to show that you are a quality developer. But without that it's hard to -- to show the neighbors the kind of quality you do desire. Do you have a theme in mind for this one? Martin: We do. I'd rather not say it out loud. I mean we have several themes and groups of themes and I can't tell you I'm a hundred percent set on any of them. We did call and talk to Anna early on about showing some of that and what percentage of that we would be required to do and our concern was just -- was, one, being required to do that theme, as opposed to changing to a different theme and, yeah, we are trying to improve our projects each time. That's probably all I can say. Sorry. De Weerd: Council, questions? Meridian City Council July 11, 2006 Page 42 of 64 Borton: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes, Joe -- I mean Mr. Borton. Sorry. Borton: Justin, did you indicate that the community pool area is in this location or am I off on -- Martin: That was right. That -- the fatter area right there, that's the area that we planned for it at this point. Borton: May I -- I'll just tell you why. The reason I asked is it just seems to be an odd location across the street from commercial, as opposed to being within the community. It doesn't seem to be very accessible to anybody, other than maybe these higher density locations. Martin: Right. In the past we have -- we have been locked down at these stages of the hearing to where things go and the timing of when they would come in, so I try and get -- I try and get more flexibility in that if I can. We have done a layout in that area, shown a pool in the layout, and various other features in that area. Along with our projects we usually have fairly large landscaping compared to the standard. We think that we can -- can make that area work really well. With that said, it's not a hundred percent certain that it's going to go there and I know I'm being evasive with this, I'd just like to guarantee that we will have one and -- and beyond that just to say that we can make it work well in that location and without bringing out the designs and the themes, it's hard for me to accomplish that. I would hope that we would just lock me down to having a pool in the project, a community pool, of a decent -- of a sufficient size and, I'm sorry, I'm being evasive, I'm just trying to not talk about the theme possibilities. It's hard for me to say anything further about that without knowing exactly which theme we have. We do have some layouts. I would be happy to show them to staff and have them review those and/or approve them, even at that stage talk about whether it makes sense or it doesn't make sense, we would be open to that sort of feedback or input from staff at a later date. That was probably the worst answer I have ever -- Rountree: It wasn't very good. Martin: No. Definitely not. Borton: I might not -- I don't know. Maybe I'm the only one that didn't understand the super secret nature of some of these decisions. For what it's worth, I don't know -- it doesn't make sense unless there is an explanation. That location under any theme doesn't make sense. And maybe that's being too picky on a small detail, but the location, it going across the street from a dentist office at the entry where you're going to have 350 people utilizing this thoroughfare. It didn't make sense. That's what sort of prompted my question. Meridian City Council July 11, 2006 Page 43 of 64 Martin: Right. And probably the only information I could give is have you seen Saguaro Canyon -- if you have seen some of our other projects -- do you know where the pool site is at Saguaro Canyon? It wouldn't make sense either. It's at the dead end of a collector, a half a mile in. Once the mile fills out every -- every main street in the project is going to be busy. And some other good examples would be projects that aren't mine, like Paramount, it's really close to a main street. It's a beautiful project. When those -- when those mile sections completely develop out, all the main streets in those subdivisions are going to be fairly busy. We would just hope that we put them in a large enough area -- we fence those areas to make them safe, with large enough landscape to keep them secluded. That's probably the best I can do. De Weerd: I think most of the areas I have seen are off of a major collector. Or thereabouts. Any other questions from Council? Does Council need elevations before on the higher density areas before a decision can be made? I don't want to ask if there is no further questions and, then, close it to see that we need some elevations. Rountree: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Rountree. Rountree: Usually this isn't the point I make this statement, but I'm going to make it now anyway, because of the last answer we got. Some of these applications where we don't have sufficient information my comments are -- I'm in not any hurry to annex more property to the City of Meridian. If you're not in any hurry to decide what it is you want to bring to the city, whether it's one or two or three things, I am right now not in any hurry to approve your request. So, that's my position, when and if the hearing closes. So, yes, I would like to see some specifics. Or at least some concepts. De Weerd: Well, I appreciate your consistency, because I could have quoted you first. I thought I'd let you do it. Rountree: And Mr. Martin hasn't heard my speech, so it's your turn. De Weerd: Any other comments? Mr. Wardle. Wardle: Madam Mayor, I guess -- certainly I would look to notes we have from planning staff on key issues of discussion by Commission, the type of housing product proposed, anticipated uses in the C-N zone lot, expected build out dates, those are -- well, the expected build out date is not necessarily a question in my mind. In any of the TN-R districts that I remember -- we, as I recall, just recently approved the standards for that, which -- not even three months ago, if I -- maybe three months ago; right, Anna? Canning: You actually passed the ordinance last week. Wardle: So, not a week it looks like. Meridian City Council July 11, 2006 Page 44 of 64 Rountree: Time flies. Wardle: But we haven't -- we have only seen several small applications of the TN-R district and so at this pOint certainly I agree with Mr. Rountree, at least on that specific density and product type I'd like some additional questions answered. De Weerd: And, again, I think we would go back to -- we have seen some really bad stuff and, unfortunately, we don't see it until it's built and there is absolutely nothing we can do. And even though I know you have a great reputation in your developments, I think that neighbors need to see these things as well. And it allows them an opportunity to comment. Martin: I don't have huge concerns with trying to show examples of the sorts of quality and standards that we would control in different areas of the density out there. I don't think that's a problem. The extent of it would be, obviously, up to you guys' determination. I don't have issues with trying to show that we are going to build something nice, trying to show you standards that relate to that to make sure it follows the sort of theme that we would show you for those certain size of lots and density. We definitely understand the concerns. De Weerd: And we have done that before and using those examples of the kind of quality that is expected in the Findings and so that gives some comfort level. Martin: Well, I think it makes sense. I mean from your point of view especially it would make sense to try and control that to some extent. De Weerd: Additional information that you would like to see come back, Council? Rountree: Madam Mayor, I would like to see elevations of the type of product -- I'm not going to hold you to the specificity, but the kind of quality of product you're proposing. We do want some more particulars on the TN-R area, because it is new to us, and we do have some existing issues. I would like, again, the type of quality, building material type that you would be proposing for the commercial, and if in that time you can zero in on one or two themes, that would be fine, too, but I'm not going to hold you to that. As long as it isn't a Swiss village. Martin: Right. No. I understand your concern with the themes. The elevations in the traditional neighborhood residential, that should be what I excel the best at on what you have just stated there in the way of being able to show you how we would control those guidelines and what it would look like. And some sort of theme throughout and quality of material. The C-N zone, the commercial area, if I could get a little bit more gUidance on that and so, again, we definitely do not do commercial development. I would prefer that the Council had a chance to see this later on some sort of a reapplication when they come in for a building permit and the specific uses that go in there, than me being unqualified in that area to get specific. I guess I'm just stating I don't have the qualifications in that area and I'm not sure it would be helpful. Meridian City Council July 11, 2006 Page 45 of 64 Rountree: Madam Mayor, I will use my criteria. If you can assure me that it won't be the standard Walgreens design -- Martin: Okay. Some sort of design standards that are better? Rountree: Yes. De Weerd: Or a strip mall -- Martin: Sure. De Weerd: -- with lots of lights that will reflect all over the place. Canning: Madam Mayor? I'm sorry. Mr. Wardle. De Weerd: Mr. Wardle. Wardle: I guess the thing that I'm looking for is -- there is a commercial development __ I'm not sure if it's -- it's the exact zoning. As you enter Star on State Street on your right-hand side that has a specific theme that I don't necessarily feel would be appropriate here. Martin: Right. De Weerd: And maybe we don't -- and maybe that's your theme. Martin: No. No. Wardle: I'm looking for some reassurance that it will fit in, but that -- some of those themes are not -- out of place in our city. Martin: I think we will be able to accomplish that in some sort of an architectural control standards on the building, that at least assure those -- those minimal things that you have mentioned so far. I don't think that will be a problem for me. De Weerd: Okay. Anything further? I think Mr. Borton wants to know where the pool is going and why. Martin: Okay. I can probably do a lot better at answering in the future. I will work on that one as well, if I'm going to come back with these other things. I think that's the intent is I will come back and try and answer these three questions. The elevations of the traditional neighborhood center, the elevations of the commercial, some sort of design standards on both of those, and, then, to talk in general about -- well, talk about the pool location and maybe the theme. Hopefully I understood that right. Meridian City Council July 11, 2006 Page 46 of 64 Wardle: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Wardle. Wardle: For the planning director and the applicant, how long would that -- would it be appropriate for those items? Martin: I would probably need two weeks to be able to do a sufficient job, without throwing something together that -- anyway, that would just be pieced together. De Weerd: Is the 25th starting to look pretty crowded? Do you want to try and shoot for the first week in August? Nary: That would be National Night Out. De Weerd: Oh. Nary: So, you're looking at August 8th. Bird: Better do it the 25th. De Weerd: August 8th. Bird: Especially, we are just -- excuse me, Madam Mayor. De Weerd: Yes. Bird: We are only asking -- we will continue the Public Hearing. As I understand it, we have asked for some specific items. We don't need to have a -- we have already heard public testimony, so if we get those items, I wouldn't think this Public Hearing would have to be that long. So, I would go with the 25th and, if not, he has to go to the 8th and -- Martin: I'm fine with the 8th. That would give me sufficient time to do a good job of the things you have requested of me. It would be good if we could close all the other concerns and questions, so that that's all I'm trying to prepare for or bring back. I can concentrate on doing a good job on those things. De Weerd: They can -- if all their other questions can be -- have been answered, they can restrict it to accepting that and testimony regarding that. Martin: Okay. De Weerd: I guess my only other piece is if we don't know a dated on when that intersection will be lighted, if you can bring back the trigger -- what would trigger that. Meridian City Council July 11, 2006 Page 47 of 64 Martin: And we are talking about Victory and Meridian Road at this point? De Weerd: Uh-huh. Martin: Okay. I can do that. De Weerd: Okay. Anything further, Council? Okay. I would entertain a motion. Rountree: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes. Rountree: I move that we continue the Public Hearing for Item 15, AZ 06-015, until August 8th and at that point Council will take additional testimony as it relates to the questions asked of the applicant this evening. Bird: Second. De Weerd: And would that include PP 06-013? Rountree: That is separate. De Weerd: Okay. Okay. There is a request to continue Item 15 to August 8th. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: I'd move that we continue PP 06-013 until August 8th, 2006, and for the applicant to come back and -- on the preliminary plat and have some elevations and pool location and -- or some ideas of building materials as questions have been asked regarding that tonight. Rountree: Second. De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion to continue the Public Hearing on Item 16 to August 8th. Is there any discussion? Oh, I don't -- I don't ask for discussion. All those in favor say aye. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. De Weerd: Okay. Yes, sir. If you can just come to the microphone.