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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1993 11-23 MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL AGENDA TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 23, 1993 - 6:00 P.M. CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS MINUTES OF PREVIOUS MEETING HELD NOVEMBER 16, 1993 1. UPDATE AND ADJUSTMENTS TO THE CURRENT WATER/SEWER UTILITY RATES: (APPROVED) MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL NOVEMBER 23, 1993 The special meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order by Mayor Kingsford for the purpose of reviewing and adjusting the current water and sewer utility rates at 6:00 p.m.: Members Present: Ron Tolsma, Bob Giesler, Max Yerrington: Members Absent: Bob Corrie: Others Present: Will Berg, Wayne Crookston, Wayne Forrey, Walt Morrow, John Shawcroft, Bruce stuart, Gary smith, Don Bryan, Bill Gordon: MINUTES OF PREVIOUS MEETING HELD NOVEMBER 16, 1993: Kingsford: Mr. Berg you had something you wanted to say. Berg: No Kingsford: The Council is, at least one present has said that they have not had an opportunity to review the minutes so lets dispense with those until the next regular meeting. Why don't we, does any of the Council have anything they want to say about the meeting before we get started with the presentation by Mr. Forrey? Yerrington: Nothing here. Kingsford: Do you want to buy a little bit in regard to the big win of Idaho. Crookston: No, I'm well satisfied. Forrey: That was a pretty sick rendition there Wayne. Mr. Mayor members of the Council, I'm here tonight to acquaint you with some current analysis on the water and sewer rates and work with these gentlemen over here and Council to look at some numbers and make a recommendation to you on adjusting our revenues. In the water department generally speaking, the water department is making some money, but is has been decreasing each year. The rates were last adjusted in 1984 and that was a very prudent rate adjustment and then with the growth that is coming there has always been an increase in the revenues, but each year it is getting a little less, a little less and the funded depreciation is a consideration you need to look at, because there are more facilities now and there is more items to depreciate. The sewer is not making money, and I think if, unless the rates are adjusted it will go in the whole, especially if you look at a prudent funded depreciation. I'm going to take this from the information I'm going to present tonight from the water/sewer analysis I did about nine months ago,and I've updated to the current user level, working doing an audit on the March 93 sewer rates and also the August 93 water rates to try and Meridian City Council November 23, 1993 Page 2 get a level sewer picture and also a high water picture. And I also updated everything to 5,200 users which is, I think we 5,185 roughly, is that right Bruce? stuart: About 5,200 users. Forrey: Yes, about 5,200 users. I took these, in the computer a spreadsheet based on a matrix of those people who use 5,000, 6,000, 7,000 or however many gallons and spread that out to those 5,200 user and I've made some revenue forecasts and compared that to the budget that has already been adopted. It is important to note that in the budget we are currently operating on right now, we made some assumptions, one of which was we would update rates, and get those implemented by, was it January 1 Mayor? Kingsford: Right. Forrey: Get that mailing out I guess the first water bill in December, so the budget we have in place right now is more than the revenues coming in we need to increase these rates somewhat in order to fund the current budget. I'm going to hand out a memo and I'm going to walk through a couple of examples and then we'll start into these rates. Yerrington: Do you have one there for Bob? Forrey: Yes, I sure do. Okay, first of all, let's just look at one way, it is a crude way. Kingsford: Wayne Crookston, would you flip him a mike over so we can pick him up? Forrey: Its a crude way, but none the less it gives you a pretty good snapshot of how sewer and water rates compare to the consumer price index for nationwide all urban consumers and the 1984 is 100 and when you update that to 1992, July, the adjusted index is 173, so if you take the predominant 84 water and sewer bills, and times that to 1.73 factor what you end up with if you were to update what you paid in 84 to 92 standards you'd have a $6.00 water bill instead of a $3.50 bill and a $9.50 sewer bill instead of $5.50, which is the two rates in 1984. So, just on that basis alone, if you were to say, well, the cost of living has gone up since 1984, by how much there it is, and we're looking at those two factors. That is just one check, another way to check, and this actually, was most of the analysis in this report was looking at comparable cities, and there was a lot of tables in that report that look at cities allover the State as well as cities here in the Treasure Meridian City Council November 23, 1993 Page 3 Valley. Now these are 1992 cost, you see Meridian at 6.60 and Meridian at 9.11 sewer for a typical 6,000 gallon user, and you can see how we compare in 1992. These numbers that you see here are current costs for Nampa and Boise and current sewer for Nampa and Boise. They, Nampa updates their rates every year, I think Boise probably does, Gary, or at least they talk about it every year whether the Council approves or not of course might be. Kingsford: What was the water rates, this PUC issue. Forrey: But, in any case, they've had a pretty progress i ve approach to their rates and so you can see how we compare in 92 and today. Now another thing that we've got basing this study is that the sewer or water assessment. Now when I called Rick Mallory the other day, he indicated that Meridian assessment, this was on some sheet that he had with every city and the amount, he might have been using some inaccurate data, but he said the assessment was going to be $11,500. And when you take our current customers, divide that out its $.20 a month or $2.25 a household. In the media, and he also said that, he made his pitch that it was $3.00 per hook-up, well that is $.25. So I don't know the difference, its a nickel difference. Kingsford: Their assumption somehow was not based on 5,200 customers. In fact, as I recall, also, there was no adjustment for example, if we have an 8-plex that is one connection for $3.00, that is one of the things that their committee is looking a adjusting, if in fact that stays in place. I would suspect that we'll be looking at adjusting that regard, currently I own a duplex, I get hammered for two minimums, $10.00, that is as it should be. The State though in their assumption though that is one $3.00 connection for the City, in the policy that they use, there is where that difference is. Forrey: I think we should just assume it is going to be $.25. Now, Meridian has a Well Development Fund, in last Fiscal Year that fund generated $292, 200 which is probably close to the cost of a well and a back up generator, isn't it Gary? So that Well Development Fund, when Jack and the Mayor went through that calculation and the assumptions I think were very good, I mean it is generating enough money to replace, or develop a new well, but the irrigation districts now are getting aggressive on this pressurized irrigation and our pledge to them if they get serious about that we would eliminate the Well Development Fund, so under the assumption, under this current fiscal year that we would not have a Well Development Fund we've got to make that up. And we have $380,000 in this years budget for hook up, and $532,500 in this years budget for the Well Development, anticipated revenues Meridian City Council November 23, 1993 Page 4 coming in. Assuming that is not there, we need to make up that, well we need to generate $912,500, and one way to get that back is through that hook up charge. We have been getting about a 1000 connections, average, now this is assumption, it could be 800 next year it could be 750. I think this year was close to a 1000, does that sound right to you Bruce? Kingsford: That sounds right, a 1008 wasn't it? stuart: It was pretty close. Kingsford: 1008 I think was the number for the fiscal year. Forrey: So that's about, we're going to need the $900 for the water hook up at that 5/8t1 size, the residential size which is the majority of the activity, and then a different cost for the larger sizes. That is assuming that we chop off the Well Development Fund. Tolsma: I have a question on that, didn't we discuss that with Nampa/Meridian Irrigation and Settlers that it would be, it wouldn't be an either/or situation, it would be Settlers or Nampa/Meridian said they would put pressurized irrigation into the development and their, and then they had to go with pressurized irrigation of City water but it was up to the irrigation companies to make a decision whether they can do it feasibly or not. And they said there were someplaces they couldn't use it so, if they couldn't put pressurized irrigation in then they still had the, they could use the Well Development Fund as a factor. Forrey: That is true. Kingsford: I think that is true in most of the areas that we will be looking at, we will be able to provide pressurized irrigation. I guess I have a question Wayne, and you and I didn't really have enough time to digest this as much as I would have liked. If in fact we go to the pressurized irrigation systems, and the irrigation districts provide that, our assumption that we needed this $912,000 diminishes, if we will not have to provide that peak load there what we had anticipated. Forrey: That is true, and our revenues will go down as well with conservation of less irrigation. Kingsford: Well, I wouldn't think our revenues will go down, we won't see a growth in them. My suspicion is the people that were selling to the day are going to be buying it next year. That may phase back slowly. ( Meridian City Council November 23, 1993 Page 5 Forrey: Excuse, I mean the August peak would come down, that the well production wouldn't be as high. Kingsford: It won't actually come down, it go up at the same rate that it did this last year per equivalency. It should in fact just about remain flat, shouldn't it? Those 1008 hook ups that we put on this year will most likely still use well water to irrigate next year in August and so on. What we'll avoid is those people that will be building and picking up permits after the first of January or whenever we put that Ordinance into effect. Forrey: I didn't make any calculation or assumptions on how many subdivisions in or out or, I guess this is worst case, if we just assume that we are not going to get any Well Development Fund revenue, we've got to make that up to meet our current budget. And we are about $800 a lot with combination of hook up and well development fee, close to that Gary? So we are looking at about a $100 increase per lot is what it is. Shall we move on? Kingsford: Any other questions Council on that? That is one area that is a huge hit, we currently have a hook up fee of $380, that have not been adjusted since I came. Forrey: I think they have, I found out they are $408, Gary mentioned, is that right Gary? Kingsford: That includes the sale of the meter doesn't it? smith: The $380 is the assessment for the connection, and the Well Development Fund is $406 now per lot, so we have a total of $786 that is paid by two different parties, the $406 is paid by the developer, the $380 is paid by the builder, but the net result is they are still paying $786 per lot for a single family unit versus the $900 that Wayne is talking about. The price of the 5/8" is really, I don't think it really pertains to that particular $900 its, that is the smallest meter, that meter cost is on top of that, that does not include the meter. Forrey: Okay, let's go to page 1, the memo there. Those are our current utility rates, and there are some assumptions that have been built into the rate analysis, 1 is that funded depreciation I think should increase, just because in some years, just going back through the budgets, it didn't seem like there was consistency. One year it is 8%, another its 13% but on the other hand Jack knew the system too, and I didn't get into the history of each of the wells and the whether the pumps have been replaced, maybe Bruce would know well #8 don't worry about it, its taken care of and that type of thing. Janice isn't really up to speed on the depreciation Meridian City Council November 23, 1993 Page 6 either, it was all left up to Jack. So, it just appears, at least in the sewer for sure, we should be increasing funded depreciation definitely. That is just my looking at the records. stuart: That is correct, I agree with you. Forrey: John, the water, there are more facilities now, we've got to get on top of that, and make depreciation is built into the rate base. Assuming the Well Development Fund is replaced by the pressure, I think we should retain the single block rate structure. Some cities have a variable rate so the more you use the less you pay, Meridian is just the opposite, if you use more you pay more. And that is a constant incentive then for conservation and that is an assumption that was built in here that should change to conserve. We built in the DEQ, there is some new drinking water compliance things looming against the City. We've got to get the rates started increasing to prepare ourselves for that. The same for the waste treatment plant, in the future we are going to have to include money for land application in the new EPA permit, to actually go out and buy land to expand the operations, and that should be included in the sewer rates. Stand by generators was mentioned by CH2M Hill, I don't know if that has been adopted by the Council, the water master plan, but that was their recommendation, and I guess the newest well you have done that, stand by generator to avoid a new storage tank. And then there is staff and equipment expansion to meet increased service demand, that has been built into here. Now lets go to the second page. Meridian has two types of charges, you have the customer charge, which is right now a $5.00 base, but under the assumption that we move that, increase it by $1.00 to a $6.00 base and I'm basing that on the other cities and on the cost of living index. And then increase the commodity charge form $.80 to a $1.00, that is a $.20 increase and include in that a $. 25 household per month. Our revenue demand in the current budget is for the water sales is 1,072,000 and if we adopt those rates that you see up there right now we would generate 1,532,133, so there is some legal room for the Council, perhaps its $ .15 instead of $.20 or leave that at $1.00 on the commodity charge and leave the customer charge at $5.00 it would kind of wash out, or the difference between the revenue demand that we estimated at 1,072,000 and the 1.5 million that we theoretically could generate with those rates that would increase our depreciated fund or maybe Bruce is aware of something new and different that is unexpected that might come up. I mean maybe there is a rainy day account approach there. But any case, we do need to increase the water rates but maybe not as much as I've shown here, but maybe that would be acceptable. Any questions on that? Meridian city council November 23, 1993 Page 7 Tolsma: That $5.00 base rate, is that a standard fee, or is that up to 4,000 gallons. Forrey: Its up to 4,000 gallons. Tolsma: What I was looking at, is a lot of senior citizens cannot, when you are living on a very fixed income, its tough to have an extra billing, because maybe they don't have a loaf of bread this month. What I was looking was the increase that most of them are all a minimum if you go back to the water rate, well just some of the people I've looked through are all minimum fees, they are all less than 4,000 gallons. Forrey: A lot of them are, Ron, and there are quite a 6,000 gallon and that is what is what I picked here. at the typical 6,000 gallon based on those rates would water compared to $6.60 today and $14.00 for sewer $12.00 today and the difference there is almost $4.75 that typical, fixed income, or the Mayors duplex. few at that If you look be $.25 for instead of a month for Kingsford: Two points I guess I'd offer the Council. First off, Mr. Forrey used the consumer price index, its based on 1984, but he used pre 1984 adjustment, which if you look at actually comparing consumer price index to that, the last time we had a rate index prior to that was when we adopted the bonding ordinance. My recollection was 1978 or 1979 was the last adjustment prior to this. Really you should have used what we are using today against the consumer price index, which would end up being higher than that. The other thing that I was going to comment on was, in that base when you use that, Ron makes a good point about the people on fixed income, but when you look at that amount of money, $4.75, spread across that many years, all of those folks have gotten more adjustment in Social Security or Retirement or any of those things that are typically fixed income items. I think our error was not to look at those on a yearly basis, and we have talked about them, we were able to ask consulting firms to update them for us and gotten aware of several years with that, but that is not their fault that is mine. We should have pursued the people without the need be, but I guess to me the user rates, the $6.00 base and the $9.50 base for sewer, are extremely reasonable based on competition today and what our costs are. To me where I see a bit of a problem where your going to hit some real opposition is the hook up fees. In my own mind I'm not sure that in one fowl swoop I could justify $900 hook up fee or a $100 more than we are charging for two, the Well fund now and the facilities, and then not provide a Well Fund. I guess I have a little problem myself with that, and maybe it should be there, but I'm not sure we should get there in Meridian City Council November 23, 1993 Page 8 one year in hook up fees. Forrey: On the sewer, Mayor, you look at revenue demand, this is in our budget now 1.2 million and those rates of $9.50 base and going up $.50 on the commodity charge we get about 1.2 million so we are still a little short there in the sewer which means that maybe we need to go with a $.55 instead of $.50 if you want to balance it out, but on the other hand, John, maybe you built into that some cushion I don't know, we are awful close here. Kingsford: I'm going to just offer this up, ever since we adopted this 1984 or 1985, the sewer, it just costs a lot of money to treat sewage and we've never gotten the depreciation fund funded by the sewer, but the water has made up the difference. Jack and I discussed that every year, and you know we've had on occasion to lower the rates on the water and jump them up in the sewer. I'm not sure that that wouldn't pacify any of the public. If you look at really funding where it needs to be funded the sewer has not paid its depreciation since we adjusted the rates in 1984. Forrey: Now looking a year farther out. Kingsford: Gary, why don't you make your comment while we are still there. Smith: I might just also comment, Mayor and Council, I think that, and John Shawcroft can corroborate this but, it seems as though in age of the waste water plant right now, we are seeing more and more major type expense in replacement of equipment, I'm not talking about just maintenance stuff, but we are seeing our grit classifier is in for major repair and modification, renovation. And we have had to go to the ultra violet disinfection, now EPA enforced that, we continue to be tightened up on our discharge permit requirements, same thing can be said for water. We're continuing to be required for additional testing. Not too far away, I think we're going to be involved in disinfection whether we want to or not. So we continue to be inundated with updating for permit requirements, or just the fact that the equipment is wearing out and its needing to be replaced. Some of the replacements, the equipment we have out there is no longer made, we can't get parts for it, so we have to go to new and different equipment. Our sludge truck, we've got money in the budget this year to replace that sludge truck, one of the major reasons is we can't find parts for the old one. I think the outfit is out of business, isn't it John? About five years ago, so the parts we've been able to get have been parts that they have been able to find that were made for other things, but that would fit the truck. This is kind of a Meridian City Council November 23, 1993 Page 9 transition period that we are going through right now, particularly at the waste water plant and the equipment. Forrey: Mayor, going out one more year, assuming that revenue demand will increase quite a bit, but I don't know what will happen to the state Assessment Program , and new wells and maintenance and all of that. We should really track that close this year as the rates are adjusted, see what it does month by month so we know in next budgeting cycle a little better on those revenues and the rate, but as we increase it an extra $.25 the following year we jump up to almost $2 million in the water. So water, I think could stay ahead if we stay on top of that one, but the sewer, assuming some of these thing, and I talked to John and made some assumptions here on what the revenue demand would be 2 years from now, and if increase that $.50 we're just starting to match up again, we're not catching up on that funded depreciation, so we've got to really watch sewer I think. Maybe yo want to take a step approach here, $.25 or $.50 now and re-evaluate another $.25 or $.50 a year or two down the road. So I think generally we need to look at water, but really focus on sewer. Crookston: Just a comment on increases, because of our experience, it would be my recommendation if you decide to shorten or decrease what you would like to increase for the fixed income or the builders or whatever, I think the appropriate thing to do is to go ahead and adopt it but just sequence when it goes into effect. So at lease you have it there on blank day of blank, you get an increase for this year, let's say a year from now you already have it in effect, this goes into effect November, December 1994 if you do a three part phase it goes into effect in November whatever 1995. Kingsford: That is a good approach except I'm not sure we have the great data to do that with right now. The justifiable data. Crookston: Well I agree, it would be in place then you could adjust it if it didn't work out. But if it does work out then its already programmed to be in effect on a certain date. So then you are not doing what we are doing now, seven or eight years later. Tolsma: Can we program that beyond a two year limitation, because election years. Crookston: Well, I think you can. Kingsford: Bob is not sweating it. Tolsma: Well, I didn't know. A lot of times they won't. Meridian City Council November 23, 1993 Page 19 Crookston: You are not affecting your budget. You are going to be stuck with. Tolsma: That is what I was thinking, if you raise if $.25 this time on water or $.10 on whatever, and then a year from now the same thing just automatically goes into effect on December 1st. Crookston: Well I think that Wayne's right, you got to stay on top of it. Kingsford: The thing that I see happening here, Wayne and Bruce can probably give me a better feedback there, from an economic standpoint your unit cost particularly in water, the more we use the unit cost goes down. You get pumping power, that is more per each kilowatt you draw, but the unit cost of man power stays appreciably the same. In the sewer plan it is a little different, the economic scale isn't quite the same there because whether the turd turban is running all that stuff or whether it isn't, the motor is going, you have fixed costs that are a lot more constant at the sewage treatment plant. So I think that is part of the reason that we have seen the water department do pretty well and be able to keep up, and we just haven't made the adjustments in the sewage department, we ought to have. We've had enough growth at the water department the economic scale has taken care of a lot of the depreciation factor. We just haven't enjoyed that in the sewer department. Realistically, to run this thing like a business, we ought to be making the particular enterprise that is, ought to pay its way, the other thing then is you get caught for conservation in the right area. You cause people to take a look at certain activities they do, and keeping those rates down. Forrey: Right, in the, its my understanding help me on this Will, I think this is in the current budget, but in the water and the sewer budget there is some money set aside for increased automation, computers this new or a new computer here at City Hall. Poor Janice, this is all the water and sewer rates and they are all entered by hand, and there is mistakes and whiteout, she'd be the first to tell you, it would be so simple to get that automated so that any of the Council any of the Department Heads could have a quick access to how we did last month in water sales, in meter, in the Well Development Fund, etc., fairly quickly, now its catch us if you can. So Janice is kind of hand strong with an old system, and this new computer let's make sure that the system is there to work for us and get the data for the Department Heads so we can stay on top of these things. Kingsford: Any other comments from the Council? For your information that bottom one there that Mr. Forrey did not Meridian City Council November 23, 1993 Page 11 talk about, he observed in Post Falls a program that they had where you can round your sewer bill, sewer and water bill to the next even dollar pay, it is called round up and that goes into a park fund, that is what he is talking about with the Tulley park round up. What did you say 20% of the people did that? Forrey: About 10% of the citizens there do that, but you know that could be a real problem for Janice, because she does get overpayments now, people who overpay and she told me that what an accounting nightmare, bless her heart, they are probably thinking well I just want it to go to my next months bill, like prepaying and so she does that, they write a check for $5 over, she holds that in some accounts as well, if we had a round up do put $5 into Tulley park or is it a mistake, so it could create some problems too. It just points to more mechanization and automation to track that, maybe we ought to check off box on the bill, and I think Janice told me the water bills were going to be printed so we, the Council should think that through if we want to go with this get that in there with a check off box, design that into the bill. Kingsford: Does staff have anything they want to comment on, Bruce, John, Council elect? Morrow: My thought was, in terms of rates, that I do have a concept of (inaudible) the problem I see with that (inaudible) some of this needs to be tagged to mandates that come to us, not the local city to require all of these things, so you can have a meeting on an annual basis ( inaudible) Kingsford: Well certainly I agree with that and it would be my recommendation to the Council at least where we can show it to put a separate line item on the bill, that $.25 per household I would like the council to say put that on there as a separate line item and say state of Idaho DEQ mandate. We can't probably break it all out, how much so you decide of the ultra violet chamber is designated to each household for that mandate but really that was mandated, what was the inland structure adjustment that we did a year ago. We had again that was to be permit, the monitoring of the river stream down and in between, all of those things we've gotten blessed with courtesy of EPA and DEQ. Certainly at least in the mailing we sent out, that needs to be addressed. Really the bulk of the need for adjustment fall into that category,as Gary says the plant, some of the equipment is virtually depreciated out. What is the Council's thought there, do want to make sewer, make sure it pays for that funded depreciation? What would it take care of instead having that go to $2.25 for a thousand if that were to go to, do you have a number of thousands of gallons that we could Meridian City Council November 23, 1993 Page 12 work against, does that need to go to $2.30, $2.35, $2.40 to fund depreciation? Forrey: Right now for every quarter that you add to that sewer commodity charge it increases the revenue by 10% based on that 5200. As we get more users if affects that percentage a little bit Mayor. So maybe if we, I guess we'd first have to see how much our depreciation budget should be, if we added another $.25 it would get $123,000 roughly. Kingsford: Well if we're looking at basically a short fall of, my math is not going, is that $50,OOO? Am I working that right? Forrey: Yes Kingsford: $501000 so you're talking about certainly not needing a quarter to meet $50,000 your needing something more in the neighborhood of $.10. Forrey: Yes Kingsford: Gary, would you happen to know off the top of your head, where we're at the first 2 months of this year, we are just about through the second month in terms of building permits? Smith: No I don't Kingsford: I'm drawing a blank as to what we did in October, it was around a 100 wasn't it? Yerrington: I think it was 93. Kingsford: 93, what I was thinking about there was in terms of Well Fund and what we have generated already there. Forrey: I can tell you what we've done there, our October 1993 Well Development Fee was just under $5,000 of October 1993. In contrast a year ago October 1992 is was almost $40,000. Kingsford: We did $5,OOO? Forrey: In October 1993, that is correct in our Well Development. smith: That is directly related to only plats that come through for signatures. I think we only had one subdivision that had $15,000. Forrey: $28,000 Meridian City Council November 23, 1993 Page 13 Kingsford: I don't know why I had the earmarked to building permits, its not that is plat approval. All I would say you the Council what we have approved so far when those sign you are going to have a pretty healthy Well Development Fund, I think we'll be able to dig another well and generate it just to where we are at today. Where are we at with that pressurized irrigation Wayne? Crookston: You were going to start and advertisement for a public hearing right now, and then Gary has been meeting with Boise Water Corporation and the City of Boise and he thought it would be prudent to hold off on that until we have possibly the same type of Ordinance that Boise does, so we held off on that until that committee finalizes their work. I told that to Scott Campbell the attorney for Settlers Irrigation and he understood that he still wants to see it go over as quickly as possible what happens if Boise just doesn't do it, well to my understanding we're going ahead with it. Kingsford: What is the time frame either Gary or Max, they are looking at finishing their work ont that committee? Yerrington: Two or three years. smi th: Mr. Mayor, members of the Counci I, we've been meeting weekly on this committee and I really don't know where or how far we're going with this thing. I can't, I don't think that it is going to go too much longer I think they have just about run out of subjects to talk about. And they are waiting for sub-committees to come back with recommendation to the committee and Wayne Buoy from Boise Water Corporation set up 4 sub-committees of which the Ordinance that I tossed out on the table for everyone to look at generated 1 sub-committee, Max Boesinger, Jr. took exception to some of the language that we had in there because it as I recall it let some things up to the secretary of the irrigation district and he felt that this could possibly create an unlevel playing field, so everybody needs to be treated equally as far as the cost of this pressurized system goes. Anyway, Boise city is in the process of doing an Ordinance for this and they have a draft I believe that Chuck Mickelson has developed and basically the draft that he had was very similar to what Wayne had developed for us. It was pretty short and sweet. Kingsford: Can we bill Boise for that? smith: Yes Crookston: Actually, most of it was prepared by Scott Campbell. Meridian City Council November 23, 1993 Page 14 smith: I guess maybe I digress a little bit, but one of the things that came out of theses sub-commi ttee meetings is that Nampa/Meridian Irrigation District I originally thought they were prepared to take over operation and maintenance of systems in Settlers Irrigation District, pressurized systems that were built in Settlers Irrigation District and I don't get that understanding now. In listening to what they have to say, they will operate and maintain systems built within their irrigation district but if systems are built in Settlers or some other district it is up to Settlers to maintain that system or contract with someone to maintain it. Kingsford: Any Settlers is not all that gung ho about maintaining? Smith: Absolutely, that's correct. Kingsford: Well where is Campbell coming from then, he is the imp behind this. smith: That is my understanding that Settlers doesn't have the staff of the interest to maintain these systems. This is some information that Darren Coons presented to us at the last sub- committee meeting. Kingsford: Do you happen to be able to crunch those numbers Gary, to see what it would take to make up that $50,OOO? Did you come up with something there? Smith: The 10% or the $.10 on the dollar based on the quarter that was about 40% and you use that against the 10% of the 11 or 1.18 million, 10% of that would have been(end of tape) so 4 tenths of that would be 42, so that would be 1227, so that is almost right on it. $2.35 should give you $1,227,000 so you would be within a couple thousand dollars of your target. Kingsford: Well I think its appropriate the Council justify the rates based on where expenditures are and the bulk of the expenditures have been in meeting the new permit, I think clearly that is defensible where we're at in the sewer department to go wi th that $.35. Pardon me that would be $2.35. What is the appropriate thing Council do you want to act on those things kind of separately as to what you want to do, how do you feel about the $6.00 base on water, is there a problem with that? Yerrington: Now is this $6.00 is that on a 4,000 gallon minimum like it is now or is it a 6,000 gallon minimum? Forrey: Mr. Mayor and Councilman Yerrington its 4,000. The first Meridian City Council November 23, 1993 Page 15 4,000 to any user the customer charge is $6.00 then a $1.00 for every thousand gallon there above. So for a duplex the charge would be $12.00 instead of $10.00 today. Kingsford: For your information guys, just like to compare others, I get a bill monthly from the city of McCall, my water bill is $22.00 a month in McCall, they have a meter they do not read it, they have a flat rate of $22.00 a month. I haven't used a whole lot of water since late September up there I hope, if I do I have a leak. You see the range of prices, of course that is probably not a fair thing because they have surface water and they are going to paying a pretty good tab to treat that filter and to treat that surface water. Wayne's sheet that he had up there I think reflects part of the reason that committee is meeting Max and Gary, Boise Water Corporation was granted a rate increase by PUC and it was based on that they go out and actively pursue using irrigation water on lawns. You see what their price is there. Now on that, Wayne, you showed 17.88, that is 2 months isn't it? Forrey: No, that is monthly. Kingsford: They bill every other month over there. I just don't believe that I pay 17.88 for my daughter, I think it every 2 months. Forrey: Oh boy, I'd like to check that. Kingsford: And sewer seems to me like its billedT I think that looks about right on there, I think that is real close to what she pays. Forrey: Well, I check that Mayor. I think I got all that to the monthly equivalent. Kingsford: Of course, for your guys information, they mask it a little bit in Boise because they sell you cubic feet of water over there instead of thousands of gallons. What is it 730 roughly? smith: 748 Kingsford: 748 gallons to a cubic Forrey: 748 cubic feet to 1,000 gallons, I believe I got that all on the same apples and apples. Kingsford: That looks high to me, I'm sure its pretty steep. Nampa bills every month too, that sewer rate looks a little higher than I remember over there, but I haven't examined that for a long Meridian City Council November 23, 1993 Page 16 while. I think what you'll find though, when people when they look at their rates the relative cost that they look at not so much what they pay somewhere else its what they have been paying here, but they are going to comment about it. You know we have to be fiscally minded and make it pay its way too. In doing that we either have to be more efficient somehow or raise the rates to where they do pay them. Yerrington: Well Ron said something about the senior citizens and all that stuff, and I'm not speaking for myself now have we though about hardship cases in some of these deals where people can apply for a hardship case and get a lower rate? Kingsford: I'll just offer up to you that when we did that you know for the solid waste, garbage, the first one standing in line to sign up were the people who could best afford to pay it from the senior citizens. Tolsma: I remember that. Kingsford: Moe continually talks about his father in law, who was the first one in line from who he bought the service. Yerrington: But they may improve, not just the senior citizens but you have to be a hardship case. Kingsford: I certainly see nothing wrong with that. Tolsma: It is just like people that drag their seats. Yerrington: Those same people. Tolsma: Those are the ones that are the hardship cases. Yerrington: Well you wouldn't even have to be a senior citizen. Kingsford: I think that would be more realistic. Tolsma: I think you'll find your lower gallonage people though, water and sewer both the ones that are the older retired people that don't use a lot of water. I think your hardship cases got 8 or 10 kids in there and that is the reason they've got hardship. They are the high gallonage users and also the high sewer users. Kingsford: Let's not get into what we ought to do with them. Yerrington: You've the tape running. Meridian City Council November 23, 1993 Page 17 smith: Mr. Mayor Council members, I think one thing that we need to try and get away from, and maybe that is not the right word, if you look at water use per capita across the United states you'll find that the water usage in the west in Idaho is extremely high as compared to the rest of the nation. And I don't if I can attribute that to the rate structure that is being paid by people in other areas in the united states. I do know that water availability in other parts of the united states is extremely much more difficult, than it is here and I think we have taken for granted our water availability and people are used to not paying anything for water and I think we need to get away from those attitudes because this water is not an unlimited resource. We have a lot of water below us and the hydrogel tells us that but nobody can tell us how long we have that water below us. And when we are pumping millions of gallons of water per day out of this aquifer, that is just a big question in my mind as to where we are going with the water we have. So when you are talking about $6.00 for 4,000 gallons of water or $5.00 for 4,000 gallons of water, raising it a dollar for a thousand gallons it just to me its a pretty valuable resource and we need number 1 we need, I agree with the Mayor and the rest of the Council, we need to be paying our own way on both the sewer and the water, but in the same breath I think the water has for a long time been way to cheap a commodity for what we have or what we are not sure we have to pump from. Tolsma: Good point. I have a sister in law in New York that pays $125 a month for water and sewer because they don't have well water or natural water. Her power bill is $300 and some a month. Kingsford: Well, what, how do you guys want to approach this? Is this how the meeting was actually noticed to update and adjust? Can we vote on that tonight? Crookston: I didn't see the notice. Kingsford: Is it the Council's, interested in going through this step by step and approving rates at certain levels. In order for us to be fiscally responsible I think really we need to have something on board that comes close to meeting the budget that we approved in August and for us to do that we're going to have to make some adjustment in rates. Get notices out in the December billing and start that then effective the actually it would start being effective on the 15th of December that would go out with the January bills. Tolsma: I have another question for Wayne, on that water hook up or the water part of that, and the yield there is what they decided Meridian City Council November 23, 1993 Page 18 132, so actually at the $6.00 base plus the $.20 on the commodity charge we're over our revenue demand. Forrey: Correct Tolsma: But then the sewer we are short. Kingsford: Well, I think something you really need to consider are you willing to charge $900 for hook up for water? Tolsma: Well, right now our hook up is $380, was that including the Well Development fund? Kingsford: That is making the assumption that it is out the window and we're replacing it with a hook up fee that is $900. Tolsma: Well, we're not going to lose that right now. Forrey: Doesn't sound like it. Tolsma: We haven't even gotten close to and Ordinance on the thing yet. Kingsford: Well, you guys certainly have approved a lot of subdi visions. That, when they get those signed we'll get some pretty good chunks of change to make up some of that. Let's go through that, it might be a realistic way to make some progress here. Is it opposition to a $6.00 base, personally that is very realistic. Is there opposition to that $1.00 up to $.20 a thousand, any discussion on that? How about, of course this one I certainly don't see anything wrong with this, is just to pass a $.25 a household for DEQ. One thing that I would recommend again that we be versatile is we're still in limbo with DEQ on that and with the state, AIC is still putting pressure on for them to either bag that or come up with a different funding source. AIC has still maintained that ought to funded out of pollution control account, if in fact that does happen, I think that is something we ought to drop that line on in fairness to our users very definitely. And I think it ought to be on the bill as that as long as we are charging or paying it. We did pay that by the way last month, you guys voted to allow me to do that if that was the prerogative of Association of cities they did do a one months payment. They are set to run out of money the end of this month if something hasn't happened. How about he hook up cost, where do you want to see those, do we have a comparison of other cities on that? Tolsma: Just a straight hook up fee? Meridian City Council November 23, 1993 Page 19 Forrey: No, I don't believe so Mayor. Kingsford: Do you happen to know what Boise Water is charging right now Gary? Forrey: Yes, I do too have it. I've got the 90 let me find the 92. I just have it for 1990, 12 table 7, table 8. Kingsford: So our, that $500 for us what does that include, that is 380 is that the meter fail too? What do we charge for a meter, for that 5/8 meter? smith: 5/8 is $90 3/4 is $120 we are putting 3/4 now. Kingsford; So that would make the $500 smith: $120 plus $380 is $500 Tolsma: $120 of 3/4? smith: Yes. Forrey: I wish I had better data there Mayor. Smith: I've got a couple of items from other cities that I got recently on connection fees. Kingsford; Do have those with you, would you share those with us? smith: I talked to the City of Nampa, it seems as though each city has a different approach to this subject. In the City of Nampa in a new subdivision, that is where the developer installed the water lines, the service lines to the lots, the meter tile and the yoke they have a 1" meter fee, they put in 1" meters over there, they have a 1" meter fee of a $163 and they have a impact fee which they refer to as, its an impact to the capacity of the system which is basically a well fund fee of $114, so for a total of $277 that is what the builder pays for a connection to their system. Now if its outside of a subdivision and they are connecting to an existing water line in the street then there they provide the City of Nampa, provides a service line tile and yoke, there is another $417 added to that for a total of $694. Plus, a mainline fee of $6.50 per foot that would be a house that is connecting to a line, say the house isn't built in a new subdivision its built just a meets and bounds lot adjacent to an existing water line. So they get hit pretty hard for a connection but where the developer has installed the system the connection fee is $277. Meridian City Council November 23, 1993 Page 20 Tolsma: On this book here, its got Nampa for a 1" meter $824. Kingsford: That has to based on their, that being an inexisting line apparently. A combination of things. smith: Well, if it was an existing line it would be in excessive that. Kingsford: But, by the same token, if we were to go in and set, which we don't do, but if we were to go in and set a yoke and tile and all of that, we'd be looking at considerably more too. More than the hook up fee. smith: Our $380 right now is just plant capacity fee, it doesn't include anything else. Kingsford: What other cities do you have on there Gary? Smith: Caldwell has, let's see, if it is in a subdivision there is a meter fee for 1", excuse me, for 3/4" meter its $60 and then a well capacity fee of $105, for a $165. That is if the developer has installed the system as part of his development. So I don't know, the figures that I have those are the only ones that I've got, Caldwell and Nampa. They didn't seem to be very heavy in the connection fees for water. I don't know why. Kingsford: developer. Of course, they haven't had giant pressures on the Smith: Nampa, of course, has pressurized irrigation system, so they don't have the impact on their domestic side. Caldwell has some, I believe, some irrigation system and they recently went through a big study to. Kingsford: I thought they abandoned theirs in Caldwell. smith: Yes, they didn't go forward with that pressure system, but they did have quite an extensive irrigation or ditch system. Kingsford: Mr. Forrey, what was your consumer price index factor again? Forrey: 1.73 Kingsford: Would you apply that Gary, that 1.73 against that $380 and where would that put us on hook up fee? Meridian City Council November 23, 1993 Page 21 smith: $657 Kingsford: What would that put us on the sewer hook up? 1.75 or 1.73 against $750. Smith: $1297.50. Boise city with its recent increase went to $1570 for a single family. Kingsford: For sewer? smith: Yes. Kingsford: And is that just pure and simple ladder or is that broken out into a trunk line fee and a plant fee? Smith: That breaks down to a treatment plant fee of $495 and a trunk line of a $1075. Kingsford: No matter where they are at? smith: That is right. And again, if they are connecting to an existing sewer in the street that was built by Boise City they have an additional assessment there of $23.75 per front foot. Pretty steep. So if you had an 80' lot you could have another $1700 so you are looking at $3300 - $3400 sewer connection for an 80' wide lot built on an existing sewer line constructed by Boise city. Right now our Ordinance says we can assess $750 for a single family connection plus if they are connecting to the existing sewer line built by someone else, its an additional $750, we have never exercised that but that is in our Ordinance right now. Kingsford: What does the Council want to do on hook ups? Tolsma: What is the current hook up fee on sewer? Kingsford: $750, and if they are on any kind of late comer line than its additional for that specific line. Well, the hook up issue then, what is your feeling? Certainly, the issue of if your looking to slow growth certainly, dollars is the thing that does it, if that is your desire. Make it a minimum to make it pay its way. Tolsma: What is Boise city's, how do they, does the public utility commission over there regulate their water hook up fees. smith: Water, yes, not the sewer that is municipal service. Meridian City Council November 23, 1993 Page 22 Tolsma: What does Boise Water charge for a hook up fee? Morrow: (Inaudible) Kingsford: You don't pay anything for wells? Forrey: I think the developer does Walt. Morrow: The developer (inaudible) It use to be over 10 years now it dropped to 5. There has been so much estimate in rounding that, essentially the private sector put in the system for Boise water based on the usage (inaudible). Kingsford: Does the developer ever then have to put in a well in that system, or are you just talking about the mainline extension? Morrow: I'm not aware of (inaudible) Kingsford: Well, it would be my recommendation that you look at scaling back certainly that $900. It looks helping to me for hook up in water, looking at the competition and so on. Morrow: What do you get for $900. Kingsford: The assurance that you turn on the spicket and get water. The other thing that we don't want to get, at least I don't want to get to Walt, is that we are in a position where we say we don't have the water to hook up another house to it, I think we have to be very careful of that. Morrow: It might be that, and I don't know how (inaudible) maybe at some point in time (inaudible) Kingsford: I think our comparison though, gets to be in that they pay more user charge than what we do, we may be charging more of a hook up charge, people buying into the system. Morrow: (inaudible) Kingsford: And of course the thing that we constantly hear from the public, I guess you can say politically, is the development ought to pay its way. They need to go pay their fair share in the water tower, their share in the wells and so on. Forrey: One thing on a practical side Mayor, as the Planning Director I get hit all the time with letters from either Nampa/Meridian or Settlers stating that they demand approval Meridian City Council November 23, 1993 Page 23 from the City or mandates from the city that some subdivision be in their pressurized program, even though it sounds like it is not yet put together, but at least they want us to drop our well development fee and you know they were quite upset in the last couple of projects where we collected the well development fee and we got nasty letters from Scott Campbell and others that hey your not honoring your commitment here, we're trying to get a program together. Where the river meets the road they think, they assume we're going to drop that fund whether or not its put together is another issue. So, we've got to give some kind of signal to the development community are they going to pay a well development fee and for how long, and then I guess we need to plug that into the formula here. I just made the assumption its chopped off, I guess its not going to happen that way. Settlers and Nampa/Meridian sure think it will, they want it chopped off. Tolsma: We can't chop ours off, until they come to a decision of what they are going to do. Forrey: And their comeback is chop it off and then we'll work with Max Boesinger or whoever, and we'll work out the details later. Kingsford: Well, I think I can support let's say a $500 water hook up, I don't think I could go a whole lot more than that, at least without evaluating that after a time period and studying. Certainly that is not up to consumer price index and all of that. Consumer price index would have put it $657. Comments from the Council. Giesler: Well $900 seems awfully exuberant there is no doubt about that. Kingsford: Wayne, just one question, when you crunch those numbers, what portion in the revenue demand was set aside for bond redemption? Was that just cleanly off of the requirement for this year? Forrey: I don't know Mayor, that was out of the City budget. That is our current budget water sales forecast revenue. Kingsford: Max, your thoughts on that, hook up fee. Yerrington: Well, I think $500 would be fair and just. It shouldn't be raised. It only be taken into account if we do get to do irrigation the pressurized irrigation, it would be less demand on our wells. Meridian City Council November 23, 1993 Page 24 Kingsford: It won't be less demand, I want to re-emphasize that. There won't be the same increase for each new house. Yerrington: But, they will be paying it in a different way. Tolsma: They are just going to get what they paid for now. Kingsford: How about the sewer charge $9.50 base its up 13% but again your talking 13% since 1984. As you look around that is certainly not nearly as high as Boise. The only thing is that doesn't meet your projections so you want to make any of it up in the base, or do you want to look at it all in the higher end that has been pushed towards conservation, make it up in the commodities charge. You make that a $10 base you could probably look at a $2.30 commodity charge and still meet that budget. Giesler: That is still fair, $10, compared to Kingsford: Ron, you defended the bottom end would you be opposed to a $10 base? Tolsma: (inaudible) Yerrington: That would be 20% right? Kingsford: It would be real close to that. Tolsma: And we're just, the commodity charge we start ground zero on that one per thousand gallon, there is no 4,000 gallon first out. Forrey: It is the same as water, 4,000 gallons. But you don't have the summer peak because it is based on November, December, January, February, March. Tolsma: Go for the $9.50 base but, go to $2.50 on thousand gallons (inaudible). Kingsford: Well, there is a lot of difference there that you could look at. You want to go $10 and $2.30 or do you want to go $9,50 and $2.35, I think then you reach the same yield. And of course the other thing that we have discussed is are you willing to go to a $1370 hook up fee. What did you Boise's was Gary, hook up fee, they had two different things . smith: $1570 is Boise's new house and new subdivision. Meridian city Council November 23, 1993 Page 25 Kingsford: Walt, are most of our builders builders that build in Meridian and Boise the bulk of them? Morrow: (inaudible) Typically what is happening with builders is they (inaudible). All we can do is put our stuff out there and it costs us this much and this is the justification for these rates. I suspect that Gary and Wayne's comparisons (inaudible) Kingsford: The point that I was searching for was the builder that typically may build in Meridian is going to look at, if the Council is going to adopt that the $1370, well, its going to cost me $1500 in Boise. Morrow: Yes, there will be some of that comparison, (inaudible) Kingsford; Well, again I think you have to weigh those but still the logic comes down they have got to pay the way, so how do you extract it to make it pay its way. Tolsma: Well, I think new developments ought to do more because they are the ones impacting the sewer. Kingsford: Well, not all of its expanded, we've to look at increasing the permit, we've got reserve capacity. What we've got to do is pay for a bunch of mandates and that is all of as users, and that is the ultra violet basin, the inlet structure that we already bought that we should have build against already. The monitoring, all of those things, that is not new development that is all of us just because EPA say we ought to be doing it. Wayne. Forrey: One thing to tuck back into everyone's head and I hope it never comes to this but, you would hate to see a situation where Meridian gets flooded with homes and then we find ourselves at a near hydraulic capacity or treatment capacity at the plant then when a Micron or Checkmate Industries or the steam lumber people come along you say gee now we are in a situation we're not going to have enough capacity to handle an industry we need to get the tax base under control. So, there is another side of it the new residential development ought to help build the capacity in John's treatment plant so we can enough capacity down the road to enhance the tax base. Kingsford: Except that a judge over in Hailey didn't agree with that. Forrey: There are fiscal implications, but I guess morally I'd have to say that. Meridian City Council November 23, 1993 Page 26 Kingsford: Well, if we can move along some kind of fashion, what do you want to do with the customer charge the $9.50 base how many of you would like to see that $9.50? How many of you would like see it $10, and see a smaller commodities charge? Giesler: $10 is fair. Yerrington: Well, they are both going to be a wash aren't they? Kingsford: Well, they are except its from who you extract it. Ron's concern is extracting it from that base group of individuals that maybe fixed income. Tolsma: Now the base you know they are probably use 4,000 gallons if the commodity charge it probably wouldn't bother me much (inaudible) Kingsford: Another way to look at it is in terms of the actual cost for all those mandates if we all share in those that ought to be levied against the base too. Tolsma: So what you're saying, well he's got for $2.25 Kingsford: Which doesn't yield an appropriate amount of revenue. What I'm suggesting is that one of two things, I think you ought to do disrespecting the hook up. You need to have either $9.50 or $10 on the customer minimum and then on the commodities charge an additional amount, you've got to get either, if you go $10.50 you need to go to $2.30 if you go to $9.50 you need to go to $2.35 to equate to the same number of dollars. Tolsma: I'll go with the $10 rather than the $2.35. Kingsford: One thing, $10 Crookston: You can have a consensus but this is a workshop so. Kingsford: I think we're going to go back and have a vote. $10 and $2.30. What is your feeling on the hook up? The consumer price index again if you run at bat against it which we didn't go that high on water, would have been $1297, he is looking at $1370 up there. We are not at all sure what EPA is going to do to us next year. What are we John, I forget now, we got the permit in the middle of the year we are now working on our second year of a five year permit. That finishes in 1997. Shawcroft: 1997, that is not to say they won't add something on it in the meantime like they have. Meridian City Council November 23, 1993 Page 27 Kingsford: Certainly the point that both John is making and Wayne Forrey, Boise has had a rough time doing it because of all the note people and so on but, with the growth that we've had I think we've got to be looking at real estate to buy for a land application of that sludge or we are going to be in some real hot water. (End of Tape) Kingsford: Your alternative is going to be a lot more extensive if you start getting into a packaged mulch type thing you know that is expensive. Couer d'Alene's experience has been pretty steep. You had a comment Ron. Tolsma: I was just going to ask you a little question, your contense is John, that you just got an award the other day for extremely well run sewer plant out there, are all the other sewer plants in the country or the surrounding area having the same problems we're having, are they meeting this criteria or are they are we getting hit harder because we're working harder and doing a better job? Shawcroft: That is a real loaded question, I think part of the problem comes down to you take a look at Idaho Falls they just got their EPA permit and their permit is more stringent then what Meridian's is currently. I expect what I anticipate seeing is that EPA is going to continue to tighten the regulations on the EPA permits and the reason for that is we're a sitting target. We don't pick up the treatment plant and move it somewhere where it is easy to regulate. Well, you start looking at the other sources of pollution it becomes a lot harder to regulate that. So they are getting the agricultural and natural run off the water shed management programs that DEQ and EPA are getting into. So, I think we've got our award for past performance but I think our future performance is going to be impacted by how EPA and DEQ approach it. Currently, we have this ultra violet system going, because they are requiring it, zero discharge into receiving water for chlorine. Currently, we violate that, but we are under a compliance order so they are not taking any enforcement action, but on the same tokenl we are currently trying to keep that chlorine that we are dumping out to a minimum and that has caused us this recent year to have a couple of permit violations, but they would rather see that than us put too much chlorine out. To answer your question, yes I think it is going to cost more in the next foreseeable future by the year 2000 to where it will cost a $1 per thousand going out maybe a little more, depending on what they mandate. Meridian City Council November 23, 1993 Page 28 smith: I'd like to offer up one other thing, I was recently in conversation with Robin Finch from Boise City Public Works just to give you an idea of where Boise City thinks this thing is going with EPA. They have formed, Boise City and other entities within the Treasure Valley have formed what is called the lower Boise River Water Quality Plan. A group to develop this plan and they, this committee, I can't think of the name of it but anyway its a managing committee within this group to develop this plan, have met and are going to meet and in the first part of December and what they are proposing what they are going to propose to the group of which we are a member, is a $160,000 a year, an annual expenditure for a period of 8 years, $1.4 million in just testing alone of the Boise River for primarily phosphorous and fecal matter and they want the City of Meridian to be a pat of this not any where near that kind of expenditure based on the amount of water we discharge to the tributary but, they are so concerned about what EPA is going to do to the this area that they are taking a pro-active stance to monitor what is in the river right now. What type of contaminants are in the river, where these contaminants are coming from, trying to pinpoint these sources. As John mentioned, the POTW's the private or public operated treatment works are the easiest for them to target for EPA to target. The non\point source are much more difficult. But anyway, Boise city is kind of spearheading this thing but, there are people involved in this group from Boise downstream, through, how far do we go John? Clear to the Snake. And there are people involved all along there, cities other people that are involved in wastewater so its a real concern, very big concern as to where we are going to end up. If we get pushed to a# I think its called the goldbook standards for Boise River and its drinking water, get out of the river. I think that is where Boise City thinks their going to be in 5 years, isn't it John? Shawcroft: They predict that unless we can show EPA we are improving, that this organization (inaudible) is in actuality improving water quality for Boise River and are striving to it. smith: And we've got some big time proposed increase or big time proposed modification structure in our treatment plant, where by we pump to the west and dispose in sanfiltration that takes a lot of land, and as the Mayor mentioned we've got to go in that direction. Kingsford: Kind of makes you wonder how a billion chinese could urinate and defecate in Yansis and its floating out. And of course Mao Tse Tung use to go swim in that river all the time and it stunted his, he only lived to 84. What is your pleasure, I guess we're down to that hook up fee. Do you want to go for all of that. Meridian City Council November 23, 1993 Page 29 Tolsma: $1300, that was these projected costs is for 1.73 on the consumer index, $1297.50. Kingsford: What is your feeling? Again those are things your trying to meet the budget you approved a large part too. John makes a good point, we could see something new each year. My inclination is that we may see, indifference to what John saying, that we may see a scaling back as to what EPA is doing. I sense that there is a move in Congress that is spearheaded by Dirk Kempthorne among others but there is a move to cute back on some of these mandates without them funding it. And I don't think Congress is going to be willing to fund, we may see them hold the line for awhile, I don't think I'd necessarily hold my breath on that one, but I kind of sense that. still we need to do those things to meet where we are at today, or some combination of. Giesler: I think we are going to go with the figures that have been shown to us though. Kingsford: Well, what we have just suggested if we go to $10.50 and $2.30 you wouldn't have to do quite $1370 # $1300 would adequately make that up. Tolsma: (inaudible) Kingsford: Where do you want to put it? Tolsma: $1370 Yerrington: $1370 Kingsford: Okay, then what I'm hearing is the following, move the water base to $6.00, move the commodity charge there to $1.00 per thousand attach a $.25 per household per month to be designated to DEQ which would be to pay the DEQ charge that would be removed in the event that DEQ fund that in a different direction. You have a $500 hook up fee for water. On the sewer charges that you have a $10.00 base, that you have a $2.30 commodity charge per thousand after the base and that the hook up fee be $1370, is there a motion to that effect? Giesler: So moved Yerrington: Second Kingsford: Moved by Bob Giesler second by Max Yerrington to approve of those rates, excuse me to draw an Ordinance to stipulate those rates, and those would go into effect after the Ordinance is published effective for the January billings. Meridian City Council November 23, 1993 Page 30 Crookston: Well, that is just a proposal, they are not effective at all right now, that is a suggested rate. Kingsford: After the Ordinance is approved, an Ordinance effective date of 1st January. Crookston: You can make it effective Tolsma: 1st of December Crookston: You can't make it effective the 1st of December, you have to adopt it, it has to be published Kingsford: So the earliest it could go into effect would be the January billings. Crookston: Correct Kingsford: All those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea Kingsford: Draw up that Ordinance Counselor. Is there any discussion on the water and sewer rates? Saw it was noticed so that is all you can do. Is there a motion to adjourn? Giesler: So moved Tolsma: Second Kingsford: Moved by Bob and second by Ron to adjourn, all those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea MEETING ADJOURNED AT 7:55 P.M. (TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS) ATTEST: WILLIAM G. BERG,J ., CLERK