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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2023-08-22 Work Session Minutes Meridian City Council Work Session August 22, 2023. A Meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 4:30 p.m. Tuesday, August 22, 2023, by Mayor Robert Simison. Members Present: Robert Simison, Brad Hoaglun, Joe Borton, Luke Cavener, Jessica Perreault, Liz Strader and John Overton. Also present: Chris Johnson, Bill Nary, Caleb Hood, Jeff Brown, Joe Bongiorno and Dean Willis. ROLL-CALL ATTENDANCE Liz Strader _X_ Joe Borton _X_ Brad Hoaglun _X_ John Overton _X_ Jessica Perreault _X—Luke Cavener X Mayor Robert E. Simison Simison: Council, we will call the meeting to order. For the record it is August 22nd, 2023, at 4:30 p.m. We will begin this evening's work session with roll call attendance. ADOPTION OF AGENDA Simison: First item up is adoption of the agenda. Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Council Hoaglun. Move that we adopt the agenda has published. Borton: Second. Simison: Have a motion a second to adopt the agenda as published. Is there any discussion? If not, all in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay? The ayes have it and the agenda is adopted. MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES. CONSENT AGENDA [Action Item] 1. Approve Minutes of the August 8, 2023 City Council Work Session 2. Approve Minutes of the August 8, 2023 City Council Regular Meeting 3. Wood Rose Apartments Sanitary Sewer and Water Main Easement No.1 (ESMT2023-0102) Meridian City Council Work Session August 22,2023 Page 2 of 14 4. Foxcroft Subdivision No. 1 Pedestrian Pathway Easement (ESMT- 2023-0107) 5. Lennon Pointe Subdivision Sanitary Sewer and Water Main Easement (ESMT2023-0097) 6. St. Luke's Consolidated Service Center Sanitary Sewer and Water Main Easement No. 1 (ESMT-2023-0111) 7. Final Plat for Kingstown Subdivision No. 1 (FP-2023-0007) by Kimley- Horn & Associates, located at 2610 E. Jasmine Ln. 8. Final Plat for Sessions Parkway Subdivision (FP-2023-0002), by KM Engineering, LLP., located at 2700 N. Eagle Rd. 9. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law and Order of Approval for Driftwood Subdivision (H-2023-0021), by Brighton Development, Inc., located at 870 W. Ustick Rd. 10. Development Agreement (Bordeaux Estates H-2022-0062) Between City of Meridian and 2 North Homes, LLC for Property Located at 5665 N. Meridian Rd. 11. Acceptance Agreement between the City of Meridian and Eileen Gay for Public Art at the Five Mile Creek Pathway Trailhub: "Water Metrics" 12. Fiscal Year 2024 Net-Zero Budget Amendment in the amount of $500,000.00 for Developer Reimbursement of Hunter Lateral Relocation Project costs 13. Resolution No. 23-2404: A Resolution Accepting the 2024 Initial Point Gallery Schedule and Providing an Effective Date 14. Resolution No. 23-2405: A Resolution of the City Council of the City of Meridian Reappointing Dave Winder to Seat 4 and Dan Basalone to Seat 9 of the Meridian Development Corporation; and Providing an Effective Date 15. Resolution No. 23-2406: A Resolution Amending the City of Meridian Comprehensive Plan to Update Text, Priorities, and Lead/Support Departments for Certain Policy Text; and Providing an Effective Date Simison: Next item up is the Consent Agenda. Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor? Meridian City Council Work Session August 22,2023 Page 3 of 14 Simison: Councilman Hoaglun. Hoaglun: I move that we approve the Consent Agenda and for the Mayor to sign and Clerk to attest. Borton: Second. Simison: Have a motion and a second to approve the Consent Agenda. Is there any discussion? If not, all in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay? The ayes have it and the Consent Agenda is agreed to. MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES. ITEMS MOVED FROM THE CONSENT AGENDA [Action Item] Simison: There were no items moved from the Consent Agenda. DEPARTMENT / COMMISSION REPORTS [Action Item] 16. Recognition of Long-Term Employees of the City of Meridian Simison: So, we are going to go into Department/Commission Reports. Tonight we are going to do the recognition of long-term employees. One a 25 and one at 30 years with the City of Meridian and we are going to start with our 25 year employee. So, I asked that Council President and Vice-president, they are going to go ahead and do these presentations on behalf of the city this evening, so Council President. I think you will be up and Mr. Parsons, if you would like to join him at the podium. Hoaglun: Yeah. Well, it's a pleasure to be up here and to get to talk a little bit about Matt Parsons and his career at the City of Meridian, but it didn't start here, it started in the -- you started in law enforcement in 1990 for the city of Glenns Ferry as a patrolman and he was appointed as police chief in 1994 and during that time he attended the FBI's command college and Northwestern University School of Police Staff and Command and, then, on February 27th, a date I will remember, 1998, he accepted a position as a patrol officer for the City of Meridian and he's been busy since then and so let me read this list and it's extensive. He was assigned or promoted to the following positions. 2000 to 2002 assigned to the FBI's Treasure Valley team and Violent Crime Task Force. Was awarded with the FBI Olympic medal from the Office of FBI Director Robert Mueller for support during the 2002 Salt Lake Olympics. 2002 promoted to Corporal in patrol. 2003 award of the police star as result of a police action. 2004 promoted to sergeant in patrol. 2007 through '10 assigned as both the administrative sergeant and the traffic team sergeant. 2008 awarded the supervisor of the year. 2007 through '17 assigned to the Ada County Emergency Communications Planning Committee, which was collateral duty. 2010 assigned as patrol sergeant. 2012 award of the police star as a result of a police action. 2013 assigned as a community services sergeant. In 2016 going back as patrol sergeant. 2020 awarded the supervisor of the year. 2020 assigned as the Meridian City Council Work Session August 22,2023 Page 4 of 14 property crimes detective sergeant. So, that's quite the list and a lot of experience there. And just the personal -- I have to say I have done several ride-alongs with Sergeant Parsons that I got to be in a high speed -- it wasn't a chase. We were paralleling the suspect in case they turned south. So, I learned a lot about what high speed and how many miles over you can go and this is what you do. So, he did this. We were flying down Franklin Road and he's telling me all this and I learned a lot. Oh. Okay. You were paying close attention to everything that was going on, so -- even my questions. But it's very obvious Matt loves the City of Meridian. He loves his job. He's dedicated to our community and he does treat people with the respect and dignity that they deserve and -- and maybe sometimes I think even if they don't deserve it you treat people right. And it's -- it's -- it's the right way -- the right way to go. He's married to his wife Brooke. They have two adult children, Christopher and Katie, and he has three wonderful granddaughters between the ages of five and 15. In his spare time, which I don't know if you have much of, he loves to bass fish, camp and be with his family. So, Matt, we want to congratulate you on your 25 years of service and all your accomplishments and thank you very much. We have some goodies for you. I don't know -- are they giving speeches afterwards? Simison: They are more than welcome to if they would like to make any comments. Parsons: I appreciate you guys coming out. About what was said, I just enjoy working with each and every one of you and -- except you. No. I do, I enjoy working with each and every one of you and I appreciate your support and, you know, him reading that list it -- it sure went a lot faster than the last 25 years here have gone it, but truly it does feel like a blink of an eye. Twenty-five years has gone by pretty quickly. So, savor the time. Enjoy the time. Don't constantly think about retirement, because before you know it will be right there, so -- but, yeah, thank you. I just appreciate everybody working with me here, too. Thank you. Hoaglun: All sorts of goodies there. Simison: Councilman Hoaglun, they want to get a picture with him with the certificate. They are waiting for that in the front row. Hoaglun: All right. Simison: Next up we will have Sonya join Councilman Borton at the podium for 30 year recognition. Perreault: I didn't know she started here when she was ten. Borton: So, a quick comment, Matt. One of the things -- one of the many things that you do really well -- your disarming sense of humor; right? It just makes everyone comfortable to be around you, but it also makes you a joy to work with and I have heard that from several people. You like to make work fun. You are very good at what you do, but you are also able to make people laugh and feel comfortable in difficult situations Meridian City Council Work Session August 22,2023 Page 5 of 14 and that's hard to do in your profession. We are blessed to have you do it in Meridian. So, congratulations to you. I'm now going to take everybody back to 1993. Is Brian here? That's the year Brian was in sixth grade and little did we know that during that sixth grade year Brian would, then, have a co-worker named Sonya Allen, who had just begun her work at the City of Meridian 30 years from now -- or 30 years ago and back 30 years ago when Sonya joined our Planning Department Meridian looked much different than it does today. Obviously. The population of Meridian in 1993 was -- any guesses? Too high. Too high. Too high. Too high. Thirteen thousand people. Okay. The city area has grown during Sonya's tenure by 250 percent and the subdivisions that our community has have grown by 200 percent. So, obviously, for 30 years Sonya has played an instrumental role in the growth and development of our city north, south, east and west and a lot of the success that you hear in our community that we are benefiting from is due in large part to some of Sonya's leadership in our Planning Department. The supervisor, Bill Parsons, describes Sonya as moody, greedy -- sorry. Wrong one. As easygoing. Bill Parsons describes Sonya as easygoing with a great sense of humor and this is -- I love this quote here. This is so true. Her laugh is infectious and you know when she's in the building. Amen. No. Amen. Laughter is contagious. She makes Bill's job easier and he looks forward to being with her -- with her neighbor for many more -- his neighbor with for many more years. But I also know -- and I know from up here on the dais over more than a decade Sonya takes her job very seriously and has always had the city's best interest at heart. I have single handedly watched Sonya make difficult decisions, have tough discussions with members of the public or the development community because it's what was right for the city and there is some components of commercial and residential parts of our community that are much better that none of us know about, because Sonya spoke up early in the process and did things that are difficult and might have upset some people, but it made our community better. That's not easy to do. That's leadership. On a personal level, Sonya was born and raised in Nampa. She spends her time away from work doing darn near everything you can do outside. Fishing. Traveling. Camping. Hiking. Going to the mountains. Skiing. Riding horses. And you have two horses; is that right? Have two horses. And two cats and a rabbit. And Jared. In no particular order. Sonya has a big heart. Anyone who works with her knows that's very true. And she -- she loves and is loved by her family and friends. She would do anything for them and is always there to provide support and to cheer them on. It's true not only for her family, but the co-workers, including everyone in this room. So, it's no surprise that the room is full today for Sonya and Matt. We want to thank you, Sonya, for your 30 years of service to our community. We love you and appreciate you and all that you do. And we have treats for you as well. And we are going to take a picture. Okay. But first we want you to come to the mic and say a few words. Allen: Are you giving me the short mic? Joe, what are you saying? Thank you all for taking time out of your day today to attend. This was very nice. It was unexpected. I had no idea this was what this was going to be, just like a retirement party kind of thing. I don't think I'm retiring. The best part of my tenure at the city is getting to meet all the different people that I have met from the public, coworkers and many are now friends and that's -- that's been the best part of all this. So, thank you all. Appreciate it. Meridian City Council Work Session August 22,2023 Page 6 of 14 Simison: All right. Thank you. Thank you all and congratulations so far -- on your career so far, but, you know, it is not over from that standpoint. My -- my now obligation is to inform you all that there is cake in Conference Rooms A and B for those who would like to go have a slice. Everybody is excused to do that, except for Caleb, who must stick with us for the next agenda item on this evening. So, save him one piece. But thank you and congratulations and -- Cavener: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Cavener. Cavener: While -- while people are exiting just want to commend you and maybe HR and the department -- Simison: Mr. Cavener, hold on one second. There is a -- okay. Try now. Cavener: I just was going to say thanks. I don't think we have ever done this before. At least -- Simison: We are not hearing any audio from you. Let's try it again. Cavener: Mr. Mayor? Don't worry about it. 17. Discussion Regarding Public Hearing Notice Posting as Required in Meridian City Code 11-5A-6(D)2 Simison: Okay. Okay. With that we will move on to Item 17, which is discussion regarding public hearing notices as required in Meridian City Code 11 .5A.6D2. Turn this conversation over to Mr. Hood. Hood: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Members of Council. I did listen to the discussion open mic at the beginning of your meeting last week. So, I am up to speed on -- on that conversation. As was noted last week that project is done, but looking forward I just will stand and have a conversation, then, for what, if any, changes need to be made to our ordinance regarding posting a public hearing notice. So, I just want to start with where we are at now and what's on the books. I think you know this, but all -- all public hearings do require some form of posting. We can also talk about the notice that the clerk sends out and, in fact, that came up last week, too, and NextDoor that we do as an additional courtesy, not required by our ordinance currently, but as an additional courtesy to neighbors using the NextDoor app and, then, the mailed notice and newspaper notice. But the posting of the site is required, again, for all but two public hearings and that's for vacation, comprehensive plan amendments, and, I'm sorry, and short plats. Those have to be posted ten -- not -- not less than ten days prior to that hearing on any of your public streets you have frontage on. It does not talk about at all -- and this was the main complaint last week was on when those right of ways that are adjacent to a project are closed. We were -- we are -- were aware. I don't know that we Meridian City Council Work Session August 22,2023 Page 7 of 14 connected the dots about the intersection being closed at the same time that this project was coming through. That is not part of our typical process to look and see if there may be a road closure coming up in the foreseeable future as we are scheduling these public hearings. It just hasn't been part of our thought process thus far. I guess I kind of want to hear from you all before I propose anything. That being said, though, that -- that could be problematic and, then, defining if there is a water line that breaks or something like that during this process does that -- is that -- and the road's closed for a couple of hours, is that -- should -- should a project be continued because someone may have driven by during that time when the road was closed and they never saw it. I don't want to get to all those hypotheticals, but there -- there are some -- definitely some concerns with that. What about if we don't even know about the roadway being closed for a certain amount of time yet we go forward with the public hearing. So, anyways, we do require the four by four signs for most all projects in the city. I do appreciate the comments last week that was brought up by the neighborhood. I will say going back to that one project in particular on the Locust Grove side of that it's my understanding you could see the sign, because the access into the adjacent subdivision was still open and the sign was placed prior to that road closure. So, anyone using Locust Grove would have seen the sign, but if they are coming in on Victory you wouldn't have seen the sign, because that was an active construction and would have been past the barricades or the road closure sign. So, we could envision how someone wouldn't have seen the sign in that case if you are on -- on Victory. So, anyways, I can pull up the code if you want to look at it line by line, but just following the -- the conversation from last week I'm here to have that discussion and potential answer any questions you may have. Simison: Thank you. Council, comments, questions? Borton: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Borton. Borton: Just from -- I'm not certain that there is -- there is gaping holes in our existing code, because that's kind of been my starting point and we provide notice in a variety of manners. You know, the NextDoor, the supplementary ways to do it is of interest, but there is -- I think there is always going to be occasions where the anomaly occurs and roads closed and so I didn't come in to prepare -- preparation for today thinking that what is going to be the wholesale change to how we provide public notice, because I didn't accept the premise that it's false -- you know, deficient in any way. Every now and then something is going to happen and we don't have to throw it out. So, that was my perspective. I don't have recommendations of additional things to do beyond perhaps the NextDoor and -- but envision more of a singular focused repository so people always know they should -- they can look in this one place for notice of what's coming up, but --just some context. Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Hoaglun. Meridian City Council Work Session August 22,2023 Page 8 of 14 Hoaglun: Yeah. Wanted to get input from Council on this, just because that was -- I was concerned for the person who spoke last week and it does raise that question, because, you know, going down Ustick and I look at Black Cat headed north is closed for quite some time and there is -- if we had an application before us -- it's open to local use, but, you know, it's one of those things that if it's going to be closed and is it a process question, Caleb, that may be staff add it to their checklist of -- just to double check to see if ACHD has a major closure. I think to Councilman Borton's point there isn't any deficiency in what we require, just the fact that -- and if there is an emergency and it's closed for a day I don't think that matters, but an application comes forward where there is -- it's -- it's closed for a significant period of that time how do we rectify that and -- and just a review of looking at ACHD and their road closures map or those types of things just to say nothing -- nothing here that we saw and then -- then move on type of thing. I don't know if that's easy -- easy to do from your process, because there is a lot of boxes you have to check in that -- those applications, so -- I don't know. I would like your input on that. Hood: So, Mr. Mayor, Council President Hoaglun, you know, to your last comment -- our checklist is -- is pretty lengthy, but we do follow it. We are to a point now in that process where going off of memory just doesn't work, because there is so many steps in the process. So, I think adding something like that to an SOP isn't out of the question. I think it is doable. I just -- I hesitate a little bit. Now, again, we can do that, but if we miss something or something's added to RITA, ACHD's website, that we would go to and we could just look and see what's scheduled along the roadway in this area and see if the road's closed or not. If something's added the next day, though, you know, I -- so, we can add that as sort of a best practice, but doesn't guarantee that there won't be a day or two or three day closure of that ten day window -- now you are talking a third of the time that -- that someone, in theory, couldn't see the sign. So, again, I'm not averse necessarily to adding that to our, hey, double check and just see and if you see one, then, maybe we bring it up. I guess that would be my follow-up question, though. What if the road is closed? Do we delay the application for a year? Do we say, sorry, we don't process it for until the road gets opened again? I don't know what the next step is then and what -- what do we do if we find one and it's like, well, I got this application that's complete, except for ACHD is going to close the road. So, we would have to have that part of the conversation then and we can even informally start to look at doing that. But, again, if -- you know. And we could potentially schedule -- if it's a short closure and it's, you know, something for the week and they are doing utility work, maybe we can make that correspond better. But if it's a long term closure -- Black Cat or Locust Grove, do we put a pause on all development for six months or a year while it's closed? I don't know the answer. Simison: And I think some of it might go back to the question of what is the purpose of the sign and I know there is a code purpose, but does Council view it's for the neighbors? Does it mean it's for the general traveling commuting public? You know, it -- because that can help answer that second question is if you are going to say we will do it even though that road is closed, then, who are you, then, notifying further potentially with that, if anybody? So, I know some people think that they live two miles Meridian City Council Work Session August 22,2023 Page 9 of 14 away and that impacts them and those signs have value, because that's the only way that they would in theory be -- so, Council Woman Strader. Strader: Yeah. The only thing I was thinking was probably if you were going to change something your best chance would be at the time the sign is placed; right? So, if -- if at the time the sign is placed the road is closed. That seems like a pretty obvious milestone where you could at least maybe expand the distance that we send, you know, letters to neighbors. That was my only thinking. But I don't see how you can overcome it, except for to directly contact people at their home address in the vicinity. I'm not aware of any other time that this has happened. Are you? Hood: So, Mr. Mayor, Council Woman Strader, I'm not aware. I would guess it has happened, though, sometime. Again, the road closure for some length of time anyways. But I have not -- I'm not aware of the same concern, complaint, whatever -- however you want to categorize it from the general public. I will -- on your scenario -- and I think we are trying to get the word out. We are not trying to hide the ball. I think the -- what would want to call to your attention, though, is the posting is actually the last in that series of forms of notice we try to provide the public. So, at ten days it's too late, then, to try to get a letter to somebody and say, hey, we would have thought you could have saw the sign, but you can't. So, now we are sending it to the clerk. I mean we are putting a lot of pressure on the clerk to drop everything, get it out the next day by mail. You are still two, three weekends in there somewhere and the hearing is Tuesday. So, you know, are you providing them advance notice at that point if we try to mail something last minute, because the notices that go out to neighbors are done about a month before the hearing. The newspapers two weeks, which we got that to the newspaper to put in the newspaper two weeks before that, so -- Simison: Council Woman Strader. Strader: Yeah. No. Thanks for -- for walking us through that. That makes sense. And I think what it speaks to is -- or what may be more appropriate is just to look at our distance that we use in general for notices and I know we go through it periodically, but just take a look at that again, because this is one of those circumstances that that generally would mitigate. It feels more appropriate to me to just look at that standard and take a look at whether that's appropriate, as opposed to trying to set up a specific set of actions based on a road closure. It sounds like that would be really impractical. Perreault: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Council Woman Perreault. Perreault: Unfortunately I haven't had a chance to review last week's meeting, but I just wanted to get clarification from Caleb. It's my understanding that the applicant -- you know, this is -- this is the applicant's responsibility to generally take a photograph of where the sign is placed and they have to abide by very specific requirements for that sign placement. So, in my opinion that -- that now becomes -- this is on the applicant in Meridian City Council Work Session August 22,2023 Page 10 of 14 my opinion not on the city. If the applicant -- surely whoever is going to be developing an area knows that there is a road closure. If they haven't that would be super surprising, because if they own that property they would have gotten noticed, but also, you know, if they are completed -- potentially start development at some point I just -- I would be very surprised if an applicant didn't know of a significant road closure. Again, we are not talking about a couple of days or a water line breaking or something. But in my opinion this is the applicant's responsibility to make sure that that sign is placed in an area that's visible and if they are placing it ten days before, then, they need to check with ACHD -- call ACHD and ask if there is going to be any closures in the next ten days before that meeting happens and, then, that's another item that has to be verified when they send that photograph in. Maybe I'm way off base on what the -- what it is that we are discussing here, but I think I got the picture. So, in my mind this is really an applicant's responsibility to be -- to be mindful of where that sign goes and whether it can be seen with obstructions. Overton: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Overton. Overton: Caleb, the applicant on -- on one of these parcels can only post that sign on the affected parcel; is that correct? Hood: Yeah. The -- Mr. Mayor, Councilman Overton, the sign placement is securely on the land being considered, along each roadway that is adjacent. So, on their property adjacent to any public right of way. Overton: And hearing -- talking about past history, it certainly sounds like this is not something that happens all the time and it does sound like notification to neighbors went out. The NextDoor notifications went out. People that were on Locust Grove could see the sign, but it was only certain people that were coming in on Victory that couldn't see the sign. I don't know what you could have done to an applicant -- or the city in this case that would have changed that visibility with the limitations that the signage is up on the property, it's affected all that. Simison: If I can speak to that. As someone who lives in that area and travels that road every day to work, you can never see a sign. There is no reason for me -- no reasonable -- reason why I would have gone beyond the turn point off of Locust Grove, unless I live in the subdivision up there. So, again, if the purpose of people around there -- because typically ACHD is tasked to provide local access. So, the people with local access -- if there is a home adjacent to it they might see it. Not -- not in all situations from that standpoint and I think their first default is try to always leave any road open for road construction. Lake Hazel is not passable during the construction this year. Locust Grove was not passable during construction through certain parts of it. So, you know, it -- there are parts and times when no one would ever drive by the property and that's really I think the question for Council is if -- if you are comfortable with that no one may drive by and see a signpost -- you know, it's like -- it goes back to Meridian City Council Work Session August 22,2023 Page 11 of 14 how you -- if you cut down a tree in the forest and no one is there to hear it, did it really happen? Same thing. You can post it, but if no one else is to ever seen it what's the point and purpose in that regards. Understanding -- you know, I didn't think about to ask the question when they came in and say, well, who saw the sign on the property? I was thinking that the road was closed for that property when they came in in that regards and so it is a conundrum and I think it's just really what's the comfort level of Council knowing that you may have an application where people -- if a road ends up afterwords was closed are you okay with that? You know, instead of playing Monday morning quarterback, have someone coming in and asking for reconsideration, saying we never knew, because the sign -- you know, we couldn't get by the road, are you okay with that concept and, if so, yeah, and, then, legally it's the posting. It's not if anyone ever has to see it. You know, that's not what the law states. But what's your viewpoint on the attempt in that regards? Hood: So, Mr. Mayor, if I can, maybe just a little bit more context -- and your question is a good one. I -- I have questioned that myself and I think it is more for the general traveling public along that corridor, although what is really their interest in the development of that land. If I'm just a commuter by that property what am I going to come and testify to the Council or Planning and Zoning Commission on. So, I think it's a little bit broader than a 300 or a 500 or a thousand foot radius maybe, but maybe just -- or more of a public service type of an announcement that something's going to happen here. Not necessarily to draw them to a hearing, but if they had some concerns or history or whatever, it did allow them an opportunity. A couple of things, though, that I do want to mention and also along the lines of your comments. We do require -- so, ten days -- the sign has to go up within seven days of the hearing. They have to submit the photos showing where they placed them and, then, they are up and that they read with the information that's supposed to be there. We don't have them submit a photo on day six or day five or four. The wind may have blown it over and we have gotten those complaints before. Or alleged that the developer put it up, took the picture, and took them down. May or may not have, I don't know. But we got a picture from them seven days before. So, there is some things that way that even with these posting that we verify at a point in time there was a sign up there -- whether people could see it or not that can be debated. I should just call to your attention a little bit -- and I should have probably read this at the beginning of my opening remarks, which weren't very good, but the sign placement part of that -- at the end of it says: In circumstances where placing signs per the standards listed herein is not practical, the director may identify an alternative sign placement strategy. So, we have had that from time to time. In fact, cul-de-sac streets that are stub streets in a subdivision that hasn't even been developed yet and they are developing the next phase of it, no one can go down there. In fact, it's still public right of way that's been improved, but there is no one in those subdivisions. We said, yeah, don't put it there, why don't you put two over here where people are likely to see it and things like that. So, we have done an alternative sign placement strategy. It doesn't happen very often and we consult with legal when we do that. But it happens sometimes where it's like, hey, there is actually this drive over here that may catch more people's eye than if we put it at this stub street. So, why don't -- why don't we spend the resources here so we can notify the public, whoever that is -- you know, Meridian City Council Work Session August 22,2023 Page 12 of 14 again, the traveling public a little bit larger version -- still within the neighborhood. But, anyway, so just a couple more things that -- it's not perfect. I don't think it's broken either. But it may not be perfect, because, again, you could have a hurricane run through three days before and the sign fell down or -- or whatever. And so we do the best we can, but that's just a little more --just some more to chew on. Nary: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Mr. Nary. Nary: I was just going to add for some context, I mean the Idaho Code in this particular arena is pretty archaic and that's why cities have generally enhanced their notification process, because the Idaho Code doesn't really do much. I mean in the 25 plus years I have been doing land use law I have never heard one person say I read the notice in the paper. Never. Ever. The sign is probably the most common method that people do see it and I understand it. But everything is generally built to within the control of the applicant. They can control where the sign goes. They can't control if the sign blows over. They can't control if somebody defaces the sign. They can't control if the road gets closed. They can't control the weather. So, everything that we place on the applicant to do are things within their ability to do that. So, again, they could choose where the sign goes. If we determine that it's not the right spot, like Caleb said, that's probably been our most common circumstances, say, well, there is two streets here, one kind of faces the public, the other one faces a dead end street that nobody is ever going to see it and we tell them add another one the other way. So, we have worked with folks. This particular one -- again, we have heard that before, I couldn't see it, but generally it's there. I mean it is there and I think even Councilman Hoaglun commented last week there were a couple of adjacent neighbors that said they saw the sign. So, there are certainly adjacent people that did see it, but certainly not everyone. But I think we do have a system that is working pretty well on most every occasion, because once we start parsing it out, then, you get really, well, if they do this at P&Z -- I would never want to do, as Caleb facetiously was saying, is you can't develop because we have to put a sign up. That's really holding pretty much hostage of a property owner over something that they can't control. So, I would never suggest you do that. But I think we have worked with people pretty -- pretty regularly to make sure -- we do the best we can to make sure they are known and many of these you have got a fairly lengthy process, which if you are going to Planning and Zoning and, then, coming before you. So, there is a few month's process of this going on, besides the neighborhood meetings and everything else. Borton: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Borton. Borton: Caleb, your language that -- that is in code satisfies it for me. It affords the discretion for the developer and planning staff, the professionals who most are in the know at the particular project in this location to address noticing and creating a creative Meridian City Council Work Session August 22,2023 Page 13 of 14 solution early in the process as to maybe an alternate location for signs on a very unique case by case basis. Without defining 19 different parameters and checklists and boxes, that blanket statement is full of professional trust and it sounds like it's designed for these rare -- rare scenarios, but fits perfectly and I would trust that our staff has the ability -- that you understand the intent that we want to be creative when necessary to afford folks a better chance of getting public notice and that you do just that. Every now and then we are going to have the sign blow down and the unique circumstance, but it sounds like to me the language is there and you utilize it appropriately. Simison: So, maybe putting in the SOP is just a review of known road -- you know, while I was thinking about this I was thinking about something in the five year work plan as you are, you know, generally when you are looking at stuff as the basis -- I get it, there could be a lot more, you know, people can come in and kind of cut something from a utility and the road can close for three weeks. That kind of the point. The entire time frame that that sign should be posted could be, you know, six, eight weeks. There is not a lot of road closures, unless they are a major redo where the entire time frame is that going to be closed, but, yeah, from my perspective if you are looking at it and you identify -- yeah, we can put them right where both roads stop where they had them, people may have seen them, they may have looked at them, then, that's -- if that's -- that discretion within there that could work. But it's just getting people to think about it if it's an -- an item or not. Hood: Can I make one more comment? And I think you all are aware of this, but Chris is awesome, he -- you know, part of -- no one reads the newspaper anymore. Still part of our process. Still required and we do it. NextDoor probably hits more people, but education, too. I mean you try to hit 300 -- or 300 or 500 -- we hope that people talk to their neighbors and they -- hey, did you hear there is an application. You can go testify. So, word of mouth or grassroots type of thing. But Chris went above and beyond last week, too, to follow up with this gentleman that was here to say, hey, going forward here is how -- you know, city's website. We get more hits than the Statesman does. So, here is how you can access to what our agendas are and it's not that wieldy. It's a little intimidating at first, but Chris breaks it down and says, hey, tell friends and neighbors and everybody that cares, you know, here it is. It's pretty easy. A couple clicks you can see what's on the agenda. So, anyways, just props to him. He is awesome and, then, followed up with that gentleman and -- anyways, I just wanted to point that out and let you know he kind of closed the loop with -- with them, too, so -- Simison: Council, anything further? All right. Thank you. Appreciate it. EXECUTIVE SESSION 18. Per Idaho Code 74-206A (1)(a): To Deliberate on a labor contract offer or to formulate a counteroffer. Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor? Meridian City Council Work Session August 22,2023 Page 14 of 14 Simison: Councilman Hoaglun. Hoaglun: I would move that we go into Executive Session per Idaho Code 74- 206A(1)(a). Borton: Second. Simison: Have a motion and a second to go into Executive Session. Any -- any -- motion to go into Executive Session. Any questions or comments? Clerk call the roll. Roll Call: Hoaglun, yea; Borton, yea; Cavener, yea; Perreault, yea; Strader, yea; Overton, yea. Simison: All ayes. Motion carries and we will move into Executive Session. MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES. EXECUTIVE SESSION: (5:09 p.m. to 5:49 p.m.) Hoaglun: Do we have a motion to come out of our Executive Session? Cavener: Move we come out of Executive Session. Overton: Second. Hoaglun: Have a motion to come out of Executive Session. All those in favor signify by saying aye. Any no's? We are out of Executive Session. MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT. Hoaglun: Do I have a motion to adjourn? Cavener: I move we adjourn the meeting. Hoaglun: We have a motion to adjourn. All those in favor signify by saying aye. All eyes. Motion carries. We are adjourned. MEETING ADJOURNED AT 5.35 P.M. (AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS) MAYOR ROBERT E. SIMISON 9-5-2023 ATTEST: CHRIS JOHNSON - CITY CLERK