HomeMy WebLinkAbout2023-08-15 Work Session Minutes Meridian City Council Work Session August 15, 2023.
A Meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 4:30 p.m. Tuesday,
August 15, 2023, by Mayor Robert Simison.
Members Present: Robert Simison, Brad Hoaglun, Joe Borton, Luke Cavener, Jessica
Perreault, Liz Strader and John Overton.
Members Absent: Jessica Perreault.
Also present: Chris Johnson, Bill Nary, Emily Kane, Lacy Ooi, Miranda Carson, Jeff
Brown, Joe Bongiorno and Dean Willis.
ROLL-CALL ATTENDANCE
Liz Strader _X_ Joe Borton
_X_ Brad Hoaglun _X_ John Overton
Jessica Perreault _X_Luke Cavener
X Mayor Robert E. Simison
Simison: Council, we will call the meeting to order. For the record it is August 15th,
2023, at 4:30 p.m. We will begin this afternoon's work session with roll call attendance.
ADOPTION OF AGENDA
Simison: Next item up is the adoption of the agenda.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: On our agenda this evening we do have an Executive Session, but we need
to add another section to that Executive Session in addition to 74-206A. We want to
add 74-206(d) to consider records that are exempt from disclosures provided in Chapter
1, Title 74, Idaho Code. So, with that amendment I move that we adopt the agenda as
amended.
Cavener: Second. I have a motion and a second to approve the agenda as amended.
Is there discussion? If not, all in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay? The ayes
have it and the motion is agreed to and the agenda is adopted as amended.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. TWO ABSENT.
CONSENT AGENDA [Action Item]
1. Costa Vida Core and Shell Water Main Easement (ESMT-2023-0104)
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August 15,2023
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2. Driftwood Subdivision Sanitary Sewer and Water Main Easement
(ESMT-2023-0108)
3. Foxcroft Subdivision No. 1 Water Main Easement (ESMT-2023-0106)
4. Lennon Pointe Subdivision Pedestrian Pathway Easement (ESMT-
2023-0098)
5. Pollard Subdivision No. 1 Pedestrian Pathway Easement (ESMT-
2023-0105)
6. Southridge South Subdivision Phase 1 Sanitary Sewer and Water
Main Easement (ESMT-2023-0103)
7. Pathway Agreement between the Nampa-Meridian Irrigation District
and the City of Meridian for the Pathway along the Ridenbaugh Canal
to be built with the Southridge South Phase 1 Project
8. Development Agreement (Artisan Victory Market H-2022-0066)
Between the City of Meridian and BPS Eagle Road, LLC for Property
Located at 2820, 2910, 2960, and 3020 S. Eagle Rd.
Simison: Next item up is the Consent Agenda.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: I move that we adopt the Consent Agenda and for the Mayor to sign and
Clerk to attest.
Cavener: Second.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to approve the Consent Agenda. Is there any
discussion? If not, all in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay? The ayes have it
and the agenda is agreed to.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. TWO ABSENT.
ITEMS MOVED FROM THE CONSENT AGENDA [Action Item]
Simison: There were no items moved from the Consent Agenda.
DEPARTMENT / COMMISSION REPORTS [Action Item]
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9. Fiscal Year 2024 Republic Services Rate Review
Simison: So, we will go into Department/Commission Reports. First up is Item 9, fiscal
year 2024 Republic Services rate review and we will see who is coming up. It looks like
it's going to be Bob with Republic Services. Mr. Bennett, how are you?
Bennett: Mr. Mayor, I'm doing great. Thank you. It's a little bit warm, but I will get over
it. So, Bob Bennett, Republic Services. 11101 West Executive Drive here in Boise.
Mayor, Council, appreciate you guys letting me come up here and talk again.
Fortunately, this year is a little bit less complicated than previous years from a rate
standpoint. So, I'm going to try and be brief and I believe we have this up on the
screen. If you could move to the next slide, please.
Johnson: If you use your keyboard you can just press the arrow.
Bennett: So, very high level -- and, actually, first I want to say thank you to both staff
and also the SWAC. The work -- for working through all these details prior to coming to
present to Council. But, you know, very high level this year. You know, the CPI as
calculated came out to a 7.875 percent and per contract that comes out to a 7.088
percent increase. A couple things that -- that I want to kind of break this down into three
categories that we talked about. The first one is some things that are positive for the
city that we are doing this year that's going to have a -- a, you know, downward
pressure on rates. The first one is -- is reroute productivity. So, one of the challenges
here in Meridian is you guys are growing just a little bit -- more than just a little bit and
what we have noticed is a lot of our growth, especially on the fringes, have created
some routes that are pretty large and so, you know, there is one of two ways you do
this. Way number one is we try to balance out our route size. We could do a massive
reroute to -- to make some of these routes smaller, which would, you know, change
days for residents for like 40,000 homes, which is probably not going to be a good thing.
People get upset by that. They miss their trash day. It's usually a customer service
nightmare. So, what we have done is we have started doing what we are calling is
micro reroutes, where we are taking little pockets and we are moving stops on to
different days, but they are in much smaller chunks and we recently did one of about
900 homes moving customers from a Friday to a Thursday and balancing out routes
and we got almost no customer service calls on that whatsoever. So, it's a little bit more
intelligent way to do it. It's going to take time to kind of get through that and keep up
with growth, but the other positive part about that is that it's going to make us more
efficient in our calculation for this next year with a couple more that we are going to do
is reducing our rates by seven cents per home for that productivity impact. The second
one that's going to impact us is our transfer station here in Meridian. So, one of the
larger projects that's taken three years to get here is the transfer station was built with a
compactor. So, what that means is that you have got a hole in the ground that you push
trash into it and it compacts it, pushes it into the back of a truck and that's what goes up
to the landfill. The challenge with it is that compactor was 18 years old, was running
capacity wise almost double what it should have been and it's hard to even get parts for
them anymore. So, we did a pretty lengthy project to change the transfer station from
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compactor base to a pit base. So, we basically put a scale, a pit we push trash in. It's
infinitely more efficient. It's a lot less maintenance. You don't have to worry about, you
know, trying to replace a three million dollar compactor every ten years and just based
on the savings that we are going to get from maintenance, productivity, not having to
store trash in trailers on site, because you push it in and it drives away, that's another
two cents per home that we are reducing rates by for that change. We are right in the
middle of that right now and we are hoping in the next month and a half that project will
be complete. The final one -- and this is actually down on number eight -- is the excise
tax credit that we get for compressed natural gas. So, that's been renewed again and
the city has -- has always put that back into the rates. The current run rate from last
year was -- it was 11 cents per home less by adding that in. We actually got more this
year, so we are adding another two cents. So, it's actually 13 per home positive impact
as a result of the V-tech credits. The next area that, you know, has an impact, which is
kind of outside of the normal CPI, is recycling and there is two areas, number five and
number six. So, first one is recycling service charge. This is what comes from Western
and that's an 8.6 percent increase this year and that -- it's about a ten percent impact.
You know, I have had the opportunity to spend a lot of time at Western over the last year
and, you know, the biggest challenge for them is labor. You know, recycling facilities are
very labor intensive. There is a couple things they could do to improve that and we are
talking about that and, then, one of the things that Councilman Borton asked in the last
meeting is when this plastics recycling center is going to get up and running. You may
have seen there was another article about another company we did a deal with. As
soon as that thing is up and running and we are able to ship product there we are going
to be talking again, because that should have a pretty -- pretty solid positive impact on
all of us, but we are not there yet. We still got to figure out how we are going to rail
product down there and a couple of other things, but it's all over the news now, so we
better get moving. The second item, number six, is glass recycling. So, this is
something that has changed in the last year or so. Our glass recycling that we have got
the -- the container that's at Meridian transfer -- we used to get that for free and -- and
that glass ships down to Salt Lake City to Momentum, gets made into insulation and
with the cost, the change in the recycling market they could not absorb the shipping
down there for free anymore and so we were asked to add that into the rate and that's
about a two -- two cent impact. The third big item -- and this one's a little bit bigger
discussion -- has to do more with Ada county than it does Republic. So, there is two big
areas that Ada county is -- is changing. The first one is household hazardous waste.
So, this will be the last year as of today that the countywide household hazardous waste
program is going to run like it is today. Not something that we are a big fan of. That is a
world class absolutely outstanding program. I think it's won awards. It's kept a lot of
really nasty stuff out of landfills. It's kept trucks from lighting on fire. But the county has
decided that they are not going to continue to run that program. So, after a lot of
discussions they are going to continue through 2024, but we have got to work with the
city to come up with another alternative to keep that stuff out of the waste stream,
because a lot of that product is flammable and we are going to see problems with it.
And, by the way, it's not just Meridian, that's going to impact every other city in Ada
county. They also kept the same company, so that's Clean Earth. Used to be
Stericycle, if you remember them, and they are also giving us an increase of 8.6
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percent. And, then, the final one, which this one is really a tougher one -- is landfill
rates. So, been a lot of discussion and I want to take my hat off to the staff here in
Meridian and Sayered specifically for fighting on this. The original proposal was a
disposal increase of 25 percent, which would have taken rates from 29 dollars to 36
dollars and change. One of the largest increases I have ever seen. And so after a lot of
discussion they essentially cut it in half, but that is going to have a -- a pretty big impact
on everybody now and right now as it sits it's going to be a 32 dollar per ton change and
I will show you in just a second what the impact of that is going to be. But, you know,
between the household hazardous waste and disposals those are pass-throughs and
that's something that, unfortunately, we are kind of at the -- the mercy of the county on
and how they set that up. But those -- those are kind of the -- the big moving pieces.
Move down here. So, what we see up on the screen here -- what we did is we tried to
actually break this down using the 95 gallon, you know, once a week trash and, then,
every other week recycling, because that's what the majority of -- of residents have and
so you will see the different costs broken down and how they impact the rates and kind
of the spread of rates between the sizes down below and what that impact is going to
be under customer rate. So, for your average customer it's going to be $1 .67 for that 95
gallon down to the 48 gallon service at $1 .27 per month. Any -- any questions with
that?
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Thanks, Bob. Regarding the Ada county disposal fee increase, I -- I knew that
that was coming from talking with Steve when I was on the SWAC, but it is still
unfortunate to see such a huge increase. Can you just educate us a little bit about how
they charge that fee compared to other landfills? Like do they charge it by a volume?
By weight? What's the best practice and what are -- what are they sort of doing?
Bennett: Yeah. They are charging by weight and -- and I actually do think that's the
best practice and I think one of the challenges that we have had to go through this as
well with, you know, charging by cubic yard. This market for years -- that's how they did
it and we still have some of that as -- as Legacy, because it's really hard to change out
of that and so when they made that change up there, you know, they may not have got
their math right, so, you know, that's one of the challenges, but that -- that is hands
down the best way to do it. The -- the other thing -- just, again, trying to be somewhat
balanced in this discussion and -- and, you know, as these -- these questions come up
is that they didn't make any adjustment last year. So, I think what -- what, you know,
Sayered and some of the other folks at the cities came up with was somewhere in the
middle, so that they can make sure they get their math right. The fact that they didn't do
an increase probably made what they needed much larger than it normally would have
been. If they do an increase every year it's routine, it's all the time and it's not such a
shock to the system. But a ten percent increase is a shock to the system. At 25
percent would have been much -- much worse. You know, as far as their financials --
and this is something where I have, you know, had the opportunity to look at some of
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the increases that -- that they are getting. Some of it I understand, some of it I -- to be
quite frank I don't agree with. But, ultimately, they are the ones that have to make that
decision on how they do that, because there is right now no competing landfills in this
area.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Yeah. Sure enough. And we do want to extend the life of our landfills as long
as possible. It's in everyone's best interest as -- as taxpayers. Regarding the
hazardous waste program -- so, if that is discontinued in 2024 is Republic interested in
stepping in to fill that gap or have you guys had those -- started those discussions?
What -- what are the alternatives there?
Bennett: Yeah. Council Woman Strader, we just started those discussions. I'm -- I'm
actually a little bit surprised of all the programs and things that I would change this isn't
one of them. One of the things I used to deal with down in Arizona was fires in my
trucks and at my landfills all the time and even though we still have them here it is
almost nothing in comparison and as you brought up filling up the landfill quicker -- if
there is not an easy way to dispose of that I promise you people will hide that in their
trash and now you are going to end up with hazardous waste in the landfill that we don't
even know about until there is a fire underground and -- look up Bridgeton, Missouri.
There was a fire underground for like 30 years. So, there is a lot of risk in that and we
are going to partner with the city and the other cities to try and come up with -- with
some solution to this. But, yeah, I'm a little bit disappointed, because it's a -- it's a good
program and it's not very expensive in comparison to having a monster site that people
have to come.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Just to comment a little bit. You know, I'm not -- I'm disappointed, but not
surprised about the rate increases, just given what's happened with inflation. The
recycling increase I think is particularly unfortunate though. So, I appreciate, you know,
everything you guys are doing recycling plastics and finding alternatives to decrease
those costs for people. I think people want to do the right thing and it's really hard if -- if
the cost of that goes up and, then, they find out like, you know, whole -- their whole
categories of plastics that can't be recycled; right. So, it's hard. We want to encourage
people, but we want it to be effective. I guess I -- I would be curious if we want to follow
up collectively on the hazardous waste program, you know, maybe to comment to Ada
county, because it does seem really like a poor decision. But, anyway, that's all I had.
Thank you.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
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Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Appreciate Councilman Strader's comments and as, Bob, you are the -- I
don't want to shoot the messenger. Appreciate that you are the one that's kind of
communicating this stuff. So, you won't take my ire for that, but certainly I think, Mayor,
it would be good to hear from the county explaining a little bit of the rationalization
around a rate increase. Certainly the county felt that a 25 percent increase was
necessary and, then, changed their mind, which means there is -- there is some guiding
principle that came up with that and I look at this as a little bit of -- it's not a matter of if
but when that number is achieved. So, that piece. And it sounds like this piece about
the household hazardous waste is kind of breaking news that you are sharing with us
and I certainly would like to hear from the county as to the -- the rationalization and
justification for that. I remember as a -- as a kid when we had the BFI days, our police
department or county sheriff are chasing down trucks that were on fire all the time,
because, Bob, to your point it's the lowest common denominator, whatever they get rid
of they are going to do that and that's a great program. But I just -- it seems like a bit of
a head scratcher. It sounds like it's a bit of a head scratcher for you and certainly we
have got an obligation to maybe try and figure out how to solve that. But I trust our --
our friends in the county really want to understand what caused them to come to that
justification. Like my question for you, though, Bob was the -- the glass increase and --
and I know there is differing opinions about the impacts of recycling glass in Meridian or
not, but maybe help me and the Council understand why the decision was made to put
the increase for all users, as opposed to those people that subscribe to the household
glass recycling program.
Bennett: Councilman Cavener, we were asked to add that in. So, this is specifically the
glass bin that is at Meridian transfer. We got free -- not just free recycling, but free
shipping down to Salt Lake City up until this last year and somebody correct me if I'm
wrong about this, but we were paying for it through our recycling fund at SWAC and I
was asked to take a look at what that rate would be per resident to continue doing that.
And if I'm incorrect on how that's set up let me know. It's a good program. We get quite
a bit. It's not ending up in the landfill. So, this is one of the -- you know, glass is one of
these challenging products that sometimes you don't have an end use for it. Here is a --
an example where we have an end use for it and it's relatively inexpensive to make sure
it's not ending up in the landfill.
Cavener: And, Bob, I -- I realize you kind of asked for some questions. I didn't know if
you had -- had a chance to complete your presentation. So, I didn't want to -- I don't
want to keep you from completing your presentation. I did have some additional
questions, but I -- I can wait until the end. It's whatever your preference is.
Bennett: Yeah. I'm done. So, I will stand for questions. I said it was going to be
simpler this year.
Cavener: So, Mr. Mayor?
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Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Bob, I -- I remember beginning of the year reading a press release or
something along those lines talking about Republic as a -- a goal to move to an all
electronic fleet. I like 2030, something like that. How does that have an impact on -- on
your operations? What is your plan? I used to be on the VRT committee and it's not
just so much about getting the vehicles, it's about the infrastructure to charge and
maintain. Maybe if you -- if you have got some insight about how that's going to
progress for your operations maybe share that with the -- the Council. I'm very
interested in kind of learning how you plan to attack a very ambitious goal for your
organization.
Bennett: Yep. So, thank you, Councilman Cavener. We are actually one of the pilots
for electrification and one of the things that's unique about our business is we go out
and run routes every day, but our routes don't -- you know, we average about 80 to 90
miles a day, which is not that far in the trucking industry, and for our residential we start
and stop somewhere between 900 and a thousand times a day and what's unique about
that is with electric vehicles one of the bigger challenges with them is they don't have
the range -- they can't go drive 400 miles on a single charge where we are not doing
that. So, a single charge -- the ones that we are running today make it a full day on
route. The other thing that -- that our industry is a little bit unique and with that
thousand stops a day there is a regen system. So, when you take your foot off the
accelerator and the truck slows down and that weight slows down, it regenerates the
batteries. So, that also helps us keep a charge for a full route. So, we are one of the
pilots. We have five trucks running today. They are all in -- in Boise and, you know,
very high level. We are pretty bought into the technology. The drivers absolutely love
them, because they are super quiet. There is still some challenges though. We are not
-- and you brought up infrastructure. So, we are -- we had to put our own chargers in,
because there is no place that can charge our type of truck. So, we did that ourselves.
We have got space for another seven trucks and we are supposed to get another five,
but we are going to have to build more chargers, we are going to have to put
transformers in -- I mean there is just a lot of infrastructure that goes into it. The good
news -- and we don't run diesel here, but it's a lot cheaper than diesel here in Idaho.
So, that's kind of the other reason why we are a pilot is that our electricity here is cheap,
because we have dams and a really good infrastructure. It is a little bit more expensive
than CNG and so one of the things we got to be cautious of is the cost side. That being
said, we got a 40 percent increase in our CNG rate this year. We got two separate
increases from Intermountain Gas that we weren't expecting. That's the highest
increase that I could find in history. So, we are kind of wondering if it's going to cross
like this from a strategic standpoint specific to Meridian, if we put an electric truck here
we are going to talk about it and it's got to make sense financially. One of the reasons
we were able to do it is we used some of the VW grant money to pay for the trucks,
because the trucks cost about 200 grand more than a typical truck and that offset that
cost -- as the technology gets better that cost will come down and we have to have that
conversation. And, oh, by the way, CNG trucks and diesel trucks are all going up, you
know, exponentially, so we are hoping that that line crosses at some point.
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Cavener: Mr. Mayor, quick follow up.
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Bob, I think you -- you are tracking right where my question is, is that CNG
has been a very affordable benefit to our -- to our ratepayers and while I'm certainly
excited about the prospect of electric trucks and I think certainly our residents,
particularly those that have early morning pickups, like the idea of a -- of a more silent
truck, which being -- understanding the cost potential impact on that. And I guess
maybe -- speaking of -- of sound, if -- if I recall during kind of the -- the big time of the
COVID-19 pandemic you guys modified your pickup time, started a little bit earlier. I
don't know. Has that maintained -- has that just become kind of SOP or you have kind
of moved back?
Bennett: We have moved back, you know, and -- and in a few cases we have asked --
like when weather is like this we might ask to start a little bit earlier for the drivers. But,
yeah, we have moved back. Where we are -- we are beyond all that. Hopefully.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor, just one -- maybe one last request. I apologize if monopolized a
lot of the time. I love that you guys are always trying to process improve, particularly
around your kind of micro routes. If -- if it's ever possible I think communicating that to
-- to us, particularly as Meridian moves to -- to districts we often now become kind of the
-- the focal point for our residents who live in that area with those types of questions and
knowing that beforehand, if a question pops out it allows us to better serve our -- the
same constituents that we are working on on their behalf. So, appreciate the update.
Appreciate all the information.
Simison: Thank you. Council, additional questions? Or comments?
Cavener: So, Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: What's -- what's next steps on this? Is it future -- thanks. Future public
hearing with action from the Council? Is it just -- is it just built into the contract and so
they are informing of us this change? I recall in the past we have taken a vote, but I just
-- I can't remember.
Simison: Laurelei is coming up to -- there is a plan. Trust me.
Cavener: I -- I know there is. There always is.
McVey: So, we are planning to have a public hearing in a couple weeks and, then, we
will do the vote at that time. Thank you. Appreciate you all being here and -- and the
world you live in and the cost of today. Yeah. I guess that's the one thing I will just add
a little bit to this. Well, I -- I don't -- I don't know if our friends with the county -- I don't
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think that they have ever -- they throw out numbers and they always back down and I
don't know how they get to those numbers or what they do and why they do it. It would
be great if we could ever get them to be a little bit more, but I don't think they have ever
stuck to one number that they have originally proposed in all the years of me
understanding what goes on with SWAC. I don't know how they come up with them in
the first place. I know how they are agreed to ultimately. But thank you for being the
conduit with them and SWAC to try to make that -- make sense of that.
10. Community Development: ACHD Integrated Five-Year Work Plan
2024-2028 Draft
Seal: With that we will move on to Item 10, which is the Ada County Highway District
integrated five year work plan draft and Miranda will give us an update.
Carson: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, so I don't usually see you guys so often
back to back. It's good to see you again. This -- I want to start with saying this is not an
effort to reprioritize our list. This is -- the presentation is based on the list that was
prioritized earlier this year that City Council voted on. ACHD then took that list, put it
into their rankings and put out their draft. So, this is an effort to comment on their draft.
The comment period closes tomorrow, so I do have a letter that was circulated about a
week ago that -- if you understand everything and we don't need to add anything to that
letter, then, we will circulate that tonight for signature. So, there in your packets you will
have quite a few pages of tables. Those are the projects as we prioritized those earlier
this year. The projects in green were funded for some level of some phase, whether it's
design, right of way, or construction, they had been funded in previous projects and,
then, in the initial draft column you can see that there is a comparison of the projects as
they were in the previous draft -- or, I'm sorry, in the previous work plan, which is two
years old. If you remember we had a one year gap of work plans and, then, whether
the construction was advanced or delayed is in the advanced delay column. So, we
had one win, which was the Linder Road overpass is now funded for right of way and
programmed for construction and, then, we had quite a few projects that moved down,
whether it was in design, right of way, construction, we had quite a few projects and
that's kind of noted in the red in the initial draft column, if you just kind of look through at
how many projects have red in them, those are all of our projects that were delayed.
So, we did put in the letter that -- that we had some concerns and noted the top ten
projects in that letter and that we still were looking forward to seeing those moving
forward and not being delayed. We did -- in our comment that we sent with our initial
draft we let ACHD know that Linder Road overpass being our number one priority, that
we would be happy to have conversations about delaying some of the projects in south
Meridian and the Ten Mile south of Victory area, but those were not the projects that
were ultimately delayed in the projects, so -- then in the community programs there was
a few -- that begins on page six of your packet. There were a few delays in that as well,
as a few projects that moved up the list. The one concern that I had when looking at the
draft was at the McMillan, Ten Mile to Linder, project was completely removed from
programming. It had been in programming in previous years. It was removed from
programming. I did note that there were two projects added to the program that are not
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necessary. There is already sidewalks where those projects are and so I'm hoping this
is a simple clerical error. Well, maybe they put in an old project where they meant to put
in a new one, but we have definitely called that out in the letter so that we can get that
addressed. And at this point I can stand for any questions or comments on the letter.
Simison: Thank you. Council, any questions, comments?
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Do we have a feeling for what the other cities have seen? Like is it -- is this
kind of particularly unusual? Is there kind of a trend with all the different cities and I -- I
know you are in communication with them regularly. So, it's sort of the voiceover that
they are giving you about the reprioritization.
Carson: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, we -- I did not do any comparison with
their lists to the new project. I do know that when we talked about ACHD's budget and
the kind of that gap year that they didn't have a program out, there were several projects
that were delayed and we have seen several projects delayed in the programming. So,
I -- I'm making an assumption that other cities have seen those, but I don't know for a
fact.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: I always appreciate the cooperation between us and other jurisdictions and
agencies. Meridian -- you know, we often are -- I think the biggest stakeholder when it
comes to regional transportation and when I look at this it makes me feel like because
we prioritized a regional solution to the Linder Road overpass and the other projects
and programs that have a real impact on our neighbors, Meridian residents, less
regional focused seemed to be downgraded or removed. I have the tendency to jump
to conclusions and so I'm trying to not do that and so I'm kind of asking you as that of a
motion arbiter and helping me see the forest from the trees, is -- is that the case? Is it --
am I misreading their prioritization? It -- it certainly feels like that a lot of our projects
that we knew were important for our community are pushed a little bit further down than
where I think they should be. Just don't know if I'm misreading this. I don't mean to put
you on the spot, but I'm also trying to help you help me.
Carson: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, I would hate to speak for ACHD.
struggle often to try to figure out what -- why they do the things the way they do and
what their thought processes are. So, I'm not sure if our projects are delayed in effort to
put more dollars towards the Linder Road overpass. I do know that they do not do any
kind of -- they don't send out any kind of list that says that our city is getting this much
funding versus this city versus Boise getting funding or Eagle and so I think when we do
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our next prioritization list -- and I have discussed this with some of my coworkers
internally, but I think when we do our next prioritization list that might be something
that's worth asking for. Are we as -- you are correct -- the transportation center of the
valley, are we getting the same improvements and the same dollars and funding that
our neighbors are getting per capita, per -- per vehicle miles.
Cavener: Thanks. Mr. Mayor. I appreciate it and I'm looking forward to that feedback
and I know we sometimes try and do once every year or so a collaborative conversation
with our colleagues at the highway district. I know that this subject is somewhat
uncomfortable and certainly every city wants more -- to accomplish more projects in
their city and that's a hard position for our friends at the highway district to take on and
just -- if they could better educate us, so that if I'm a Meridian resident and I'm saying,
man, it seems like Meridian residents are getting the shaft, so that it's easier for people
from Star to get to Kuna and vice-versa, that we can say, well, no, that's not the case
and here is what's going on. I think it makes our collaborative job a little easier.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Miranda, I'm just interested in getting your take on Item No. 6 and No. 18.
This has to do with Ustick Road. No. 6 is Linder to Ten Mile. They -- they reverse it.
They move east. We -- I'm -- I'm thinking moving west, Linder to Ten Mile, and that right
of way 2024 and, then, Ten Mile to Black Cat and that's -- right of way is 2025 for that.
And, then, continuing from Ten Mile to Black Cat that's 2024. And both are unfunded
and construction year and, again, a year different. It's kind of a leapfrog there and I'm
assuming it has to do with the construction of their facility and a requirement to widen
the road from that Ten Mile to Black Cat option. But, then, that leaves at least a year lag
for that other section where you got five lanes to five lanes and back to -- to one of
those squeeze points again. Any -- any idea if that can be rectified? Can they do
something a little more in order, instead of creating these squeeze points?
Carson: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, we noticed that as well and we had the
same assumption that it was likely due to their facility and their requirement to wind the
road with their facility. That said we do have the Ustick, Ten Mile to Linder project called
out in the letter that will be sent, so that we can kind of push on that and see what
movements we can make. There is still time for the ACHD commission to change this
list. That's why there is the comment period open and so we will have those
communications with them and also watch that go to their commission and see where
that ultimately lands.
Cavener: Thank you.
Overton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Customer Overton.
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Overton: Miranda, thank you for the report. Probably the highest ranked one that's
been moved is number three. Yeah. It's very similar to what Councilman Hoaglun was
talking about. We have a choke point on Locust Grove between Fairview and Ustick.
Yeah. It's been kicked back years. About three years. I understand a list that just says
that should be nice. Little bit more feedback. Why something that seems like that
important for moving traffic through Locust Grove to the north, which is whatever
(inaudible) highly ranked by us and it back for not just a year, but multiple years
(inaudible) traffic moving through our city in the future.
Carson: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, in addition to the letter that I'm sending I
had planned on sending our table back to ACHD as well, because some of the
comments that I have are more just clarifying information, like a project that's on our
table that's not in our city, but it's showing up on our documents and so I can definitely
include some -- the comments about flip flopping the Ustick projects and the Locust
Grove when I ask for those clarifying statements.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Yeah. And I think it's important to -- maybe to reiterate that when we have
been prioritizing our request we have been trying to take a corridor approach in our
requests, with the idea that, you know, if we can completely widen the corridor it
provides a better outcome and maybe it's worth -- at least when you speak with them or
in the letter kind of referencing that, because I feel like we put a lot of our eggs in that,
you know, for example, Locust Grove basket and a couple of others where it was like
that was our main focus and I think we prioritized those above other projects just so we
could try to focus on those corridors. I'm hoping because they are taking comments that
they will see our comments and take the feedback and maybe we could see some
changes. Have they ever made changes in response to these comments? I assume
that they have, so, hopefully, if we communicate, you know, openly we could -- we could
kind of bring some priorities back.
Carson: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, to answer your last question, yes, they
have made changes between the draft and the final based on comments from -- from
agencies and also comments from the public.
Simison: I think that we know -- the -- moving Locust Grove in has had an impact on
their forecasted budgeting and finance. We -- we knew that there would be an impact.
You know, we just hoped it wouldn't be to the projects that were in Meridian to -- to see
that. But some of the things just to share that I have heard, you know, depends upon
the projects. You know, do they have the staff resources to do the projects, you know,
cash flowing, all those things are taken into consideration as best of their ability in some
of these projects. As I mean we can agree with them or not in that regards, but they do
try to look at a wide variety. They also do track the spending that occurs in each
jurisdiction and some years we are up, some years we are down and they -- but they --
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they track it over decades from that standpoint to try to showcase the amount of
revenue that's going in from a jurisdiction is also being spent in that jurisdiction and
depending upon the -- well, we don't know to the point is if we look at the entire project
something else gets moved up by another city, which also wasn't funded and that had
impacts, you know, through that standpoint. So, not defending them, just also sharing
that, you know, sometimes we get what we really want and sometimes we don't and
think the other factor is that they have is the increased cost. They just don't have as
much or maybe as many projects as they would have liked to more than likely, so --
Carson: Mr. Mayor, I can add one more.
Simison: Yes, please.
Carson: Or two more notes. So, one thing is the increased cost. They also have
changed the way they do residential maintenance. So, that if you have noticed
residential maintenance now isn't just the road. They are actually going in and installing
ADA curbs and sidewalks everywhere they do residential maintenance, which has
increased the cost of residential maintenance projects. It also increases the
accessibility of our city. So, that's a win, but it does slow other projects down and, then,
the right of way process is also just -- has been very lengthy, because one of the things
ACHD does is if they need to take a property, they don't just give somebody a check,
they actually help relocate them. So, that process has been lengthy for projects as well,
which may have a slight increase on why things have been delayed.
Simison: Council, anything else or, if not, we will move forward with the letter and use
your electronic signatures on that letter. Okay. Thanks, Miranda.
11. Proposed Updates to Meridian City Code section 13-2-6(C),
Regarding Alcohol in City Parks, and Meridian City Code Section 13-
2-6(S), Regarding Parking in City Parks
Simison: Next item up is Item 11, proposed updates to Meridian City Code Section 13-
2-6C regarding alcohol in city parks and Meridian City Code Section 13-2-6S regarding
parking in city parks. Lacy. I see Emily sitting in the back. The -- the director of fun is
staying seated. Maybe you will get that new title.
Ooi: It's not -- it's not very often I get to speak for the Parks Department, so I decided to
try something new and Emily will rescue me if I need it. So, good afternoon, Mayor and
Council Members. This section actually was placed under review -- for an attempt to
minimize parking concerns for the Cedar Springs neighborhood behind Settlers Park
based on some of the citizen complaints that have been referred at that time dealing
with parking issues during events held at Settlers Park. Usually on weekends and
evenings when the police department staffing is lighter for response to lower priority
calls such as parking complaints. So, while reviewing the statements and photos that
the citizens had given to Councilman Cavener, it began this process and my
observations regarding why people were potentially parking in the no parking areas due
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to the proximity of the fields, the nice shady area for tailgating barbecues and that they
would put up their canopies and barbecue pits in the no parking zone and bring their
own choice of beverage in that easement. So, reviewing the parks codes, trying to
make them better enforceable, instead of continuously treating the symptoms of the
parking issues, but potentially looking towards some enforcement issues of the parks
codes, what I found was several sections -- six really that regarded alcohol in the parks
and after almost 14 years of reviewing code I wasn't able to determine which code I
would use for enforcement of alcohol in the parks and so this code section code
amendments change six options into four and just issued them titles for the way that
they would be used. So, an officer that's not familiar with the whole section of the code
would easily be able to find which violation to enforce and making them a little more
streamlined. So, it's nothing new. It doesn't change any of the regulations within the
parks regarding the alcohol, it just makes them easier to find. And, then, the section for
parking codes that were within the parks currently written would have to be issued
through a uniform citation to a person, instead of the vehicle and it would go through our
court process for a hundred -- hundred dollar fines. We have moved those codes and
they will come up in the next session that we discussed into the parking regulations
under the Title 7 that would just make the car itself citable and at a 50 dollar fine,
instead of a hundred dollar fine and it alleviates the court process unless they want to
argue the citation in court in front of a judge. Any questions?
Simison: Council, any questions?
Cavener: Mr. Mayor? I have got the green light?
Simison: Okay. Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Appreciate you bringing this and it's always interesting, right, where the path
that an inquiry or complaint from our citizen takes us and I appreciate you kind of
bringing this back. I'm really supportive of trying to clean up code and make it easier for
you and your colleagues and PD to enforce the law. The piece that I have -- I have
often struggled with is somebody reserves the shelter, you can drink. I'm sitting at a
shelter I didn't reserve and I drink that's a citable offense, and so, again, I'm not the
smart -- brightest bulb in -- in -- on the shelf or whatever, however they say it, but it feels
like that if you pay to have a permit you can drink in our parks, but if you don't you can't.
And I struggle with that. And so -- and you may not be the right person as -- just
understanding the philosophy around that and I feel like that we have got good laws for
-- if -- if someone is, you know, causing a disturbance or if they are a minor that's
drinking or, obviously, operating a motor vehicle, those are all things that we have got
code already to address and so I just -- I have never understood why we delineate one
versus the other.
Ooi: I always love coming in front of you guys and having codes that are already
currently written there that I -- I don't know the back history as to why they were. I do
know that Parks was in agreement that in general we didn't want alcohol to be served
and be allowed in the parks at all times. So, these codes are already on -- on the
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record or are already enforceable and so it's not -- you know, that's -- that isn't the part
of what I even addressed is whether or not we really wanted to allow it, but those are
the current codes and just amending them to make them easier to enforce and more
legible to read and understand. So, I'm -- I'm definitely not the right person. I'm not
sure if the right person is potentially in this room.
Simison: I told you this was going to come up.
Kane: Yes. Of course. Mayor, Council Members, Councilman Cavener, I -- I am not
exactly the right person either, but Lacy's right that it's -- this is a little bit beyond the
scope of this exercise, but it's -- it's the alternative to -- well, it's one option for regulating
alcohol in parks. Excuse me. It could either be banned completely or allowed
completely. But this is the middle ground of it's sometimes allowed and it's regulated.
So, that's -- if -- if Council wants to go another way philosophically, then, we can -- we
can do that. That's a really more of a policy question, but that's how we have -- that's
how the Parks Department has responded to that in the -- in the past and I think it is a
law enforcement issue as well. It allows -- it allows that some of the effects of drinking,
so behavioral and also litter, to be regulated and we know it's coming.
Overton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Overton.
Overton: Just a little history. This discussion has been going on for over 20 years and
one of the original discussions on why we do it the way we do it is because if I require
you to get a permit to have alcohol in a shelter you are going to watch the people and
take care of your group and if it's completely unregulated we don't see that same action.
If we just allow anybody to bring alcohol into the parks at any time there is no oversight
whatsoever and there is no control whatsoever. But when we had people in groups
every time -- and I have got permits myself for different events we did -- I felt a personal
responsibility to make sure that the people in my group were towing the line. So, it
really originally was to try to regulate who brings alcohol into our parks and the
behaviors they bring with them into our park system with everybody else who may not
be drinking at that same time. That would certainly open that up to Lieutenant Brown
for a current version of when and where and why, but it was all about regulation. It was
all about attitudes and behaviors and trying to keep our parks -- while we could allow
alcohol in them at certain points and times, to still make sure they were safe for
everybody else in our community to use at the same time.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Yeah. That -- that answers my question, because I was wondering if there
was a liability component to this, whereby taking out a permit they become liable if
someone does something stupid, as opposed to the city where it's just wide open and
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something happens, but I don't know what the requirements are for that permit for --
there is that requirement that they are liable for any action that happens, so --
Kane: Mayor and Council, Council Member Hoaglun, there is -- that's a minor aspect of
it. More notice to the city is -- is the -- is the risk management aspect of it. There --
don't believe that free parks alcohol permit that there is not an insurance requirement.
It's different if -- if there is an alcohol catering permit and it's being served by a
professional. But, otherwise, the liability aspect is really on the -- the holder of the
permit or the person doing the --
Simison: All right. So, root beer floats require -- sorry. I just --
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Yeah. Yeah. Mr. Nary.
Nary: Mr. Mayor, having worked with the city to the east -- so, they -- at the time --
don't know if it's changed since I have left there, but they do -- they do allow alcohol in
the parks without a permit, but what they found and what we found over the years often
was hard to regulate the amount. So, we had -- you know, at the time I worked there
required if you wanted a keg you had to have a permit, but if you didn't have a keg you
didn't need a permit. So, we found lots of groups with large cases and cases of beer for
a large group and Councilman Overtone is right, I mean it -- it led to a lot of behavioral
issues that made it problematic, because you couldn't regulate the amount and so that
was part of the reason why --
Simpson: And just to touch on that, I know that they moved away from that, because
when I played in a softball league that occurred in that you could do it -- you could have
alcohol only at the softball field. You could not take it anywhere outside the softball
field. So, they have modified what was at one point in time, but I can't say what they do
now.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: I think for Council's benefit I'm not looking to -- to shotgun beers at my son's
soccer game. That's not the reason why I'm asking this. Is that I -- I think it can be
confusing. Our -- our citizens come to Concerts At Broadway and they bring a bottle of
wine and they have a glass of wine with the concert and they believe, oh, we are in a
city park, we are able to do that. They attend an event. The wing off and there is --
there is beer and chicken wings and stuff like that. People I think sometimes think that it
is allowed when it's not and -- and, then, what happens is is that Ooi or code
enforcement they get to be the -- the bearer of bad news and that creates a conflict
point and I'm always just trying to find ways to eliminate the ambiguity of our law, so that
it's okay on a Saturday night in City Hall Plaza, but not okay at a Saturday night having
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dinner at the -- at Kleiner Park with my family, that -- that just creates confusion and I
just think that if -- I appreciate Council Member Overton we have been talking about this
for 20 years, I'm sure they will be talking about it 20 years from now and, again, not
saying that we need to hold this up by any means, but perhaps maybe later on this year
a future conversation about -- I actually think what Boise did, which is regulating the --
the amount and/or the proximity of a playground, much like we kind of do with smoking
in our parks, that maybe that's more of a happy medium so our citizens can have
greater confidence that they think they are following the law and we don't unintentionally
turn them into law breakers. That's all.
Simison: Well, if I could add this was a conversation that we had when we sat down,
because some part of the thing was that you can get an alcohol permit for an event
where you can drink out at it, but it -- it's putting the onus on the public to go search for
a permit to know whether or not they are allowed to consume alcohol or not and every
event can be different in that regards, depending upon where they -- where the permit
holder determines and we sign off as a city alcohol will be allowed or permitted and to
your point the -- the -- I wasn't partaking, but I -- you know, the concerts in Kleiner and I
look around and almost every person in that part -- in that park is consuming alcohol.
They just are. And, you know, we had ten officers over there, bike patrol and whatnot,
they weren't coming in. No one was getting rowdy. But I can tell you the people there
felt that they were entitled, that there was no prohibition to be consuming alcohol in the
way that they were doing that. They weren't even hiding it. So, it's not like -- yeah.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: I just wanted to say thanks a lot for following up on these items and particularly
trying to get at the root cause of code enforcement issues around Settlers Park. It's
been an issue for -- for over a decade that I was brought into recently, but appreciate
you trying to dig into how to ultimately solve it. I think it makes tons of sense to have
the citations go to the vehicle. That piece feels like a no brainer. So, thanks for that.
And, then, you know, the simplification of the code around alcohol I think it makes sense
and maybe we just table the -- the discussion on the wider philosophy of alcohol in
parks. Certainly something we could look at. I would tend to error on the side of less
alcohol in parks than more alcohol in parks personally, just because I -- I could see how
it could really cause a lot of disruption to people if you went overboard. Thank you.
Simison: Council, any additional questions on this item?
Overton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Overton.
Overton: Just to get back to what we were talking about, I think it's an excellent job on
the rewrite. That makes it real simple. There is only four ways it goes. I think that's
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going to make it really easy on people for enforcement or people in the public to
understand what you can and can't do. Well done.
12. Proposed Updates to Title 7, Meridian City Code, Regarding Traffic
and Parking
Simison: All right. Well, thank you very much. I don't know who is doing the next one,
because I had Emily doing them both, but we will go to Item 12, which is proposed
updates to Title 7 Meridian City Code regarding traffic and parking.
Kane: Mayor, Members of Council, Emily Kane, Deputy City Attorney. So, in October I
was before you promising to be back every quarter with a city code update and this is
my inaugural one, so I'm going to fast track our -- that little project a little bit and we are
starting with Title 7, since Lacy and I were already kind of working on some parking
issues anyway. So, the changes to -- so, Title 7 is our traffic code and the changes that
I'm proposing are almost all to eliminate some duplicative sections that are covered by
Idaho Code or other rules that are already on the books. In some cases we found some
conflicts that we -- we do need to remove conflicting code sections and a lot of this is
renumbering. So, I will just maybe start at the top and go relatively quickly. Again,
renumbering. We talked about fines. Well, I will talk about fines a little more when we
get to Title 1, but the -- the fines are covered by either the parking code or Idaho
Infraction Rule 9, which sets forth the -- the general provisions for how much a fine is for
an infraction. Emergency vehicles when -- when people are near emergency vehicles
or near a fire, this provision has been on the books for 30 years and it's never been
used. It's covered by another provision in Title 5 for the -- the fire department handles,
so I would recommend that we delete that. Oh, I skipped repairing vehicles in city
streets. That's a very old provision that we -- the police department is unaware of ever
using that to deal with a vehicle being repaired in streets, so that must not be something
that we are running into very often. To the degree that people are repairing vehicles in
the streets it's probably covered by the parking code, so this provision is not something
that we need. Section 7.1.5 relates to activities on school property and city property
and we really have no -- there is no traffic question as to what we are regulating on -- on
school property. That's really within the school's purview. So, I would recommend that
we delete that. We just don't have the authority to handle that. And it's not really a
traffic code issue anyway. We are renumbering. Section 7.1 .7 currently prohibits
driving through a funeral procession and that is already addressed by state code. That
is not needed. U-turns are unique to city code and allowed for us to regulate. We
would recommend we leave that on the books, but renumber. We are renumbering.
The -- there is one tweak that I would recommend to the e-scooter section. It says may
when it should say shall. Otherwise, I wouldn't recommend any changes to that and
that is unique to Meridian. Section 7.1.10 relates to center turn lanes and it conflicts
that -- that's the conflict with state law, so I would recommend that we delete it and --
and use the state law provision on that. And negligent driving. The police don't use this
very often, if at all, but it is -- this provision is used typically for bond forfeitures. That
requires the amendment of a traffic violation to a misdemeanor city code and, then,
people can pay -- pay a -- a bond. It's like a get out of jail free card that is a creature of
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-- of state code. So, I would recommend that we keep that on the books, but we don't
really need to address traffic collisions. To the degree that we need that it's covered by
state code. Numbering. And that brings us through Chapter 1 of Title 7. Chapter 2 is
the parking code and I'm going to let Lacy come back, but are there any questions
about the traffic code? Okay. Thank you.
Simison: Thank you, Emily.
Ooi: Someday I will move on to electronic. Until then I have to shuffle. Mayor and
Council Members, we are going to talk about the prohibited parking of Title 7, Chapter 2.
And a lot of these rewrites are also done by Emily for just the -- the small reasons. So,
you will see some portions that are just added in into multiple codes and I will just cover
them once. So, the first rewrite is stop standard parking vehicle or a portion thereof and
it just gives us a better ability to use discretion on what we believe is blocking or causing
the problem, instead of saying all of the car needs to be in violation or what portion. It
gives us the discretion to cite when we feel the need to. The second rewrite is just for
calling the lane traffic lane instead of a roadway, whereas all of the public right of way is
a roadway. So, it's just referring to traffic. Section 2 covers vertical space. So, for
vehicles that are sometimes pulled into a driveway, the back end may still cover a public
sidewalk, but the tires are on the driveway and the current code just refers to vehicles
parked on a sidewalk, so this just gives us the ability to protect vertical space over
public right of ways for sidewalks and roadways. Number five is just to designate a
bicycle lane instead of calling us if something different. It's just more in line with the
state definition of the traffic lane that bicycles are in. The next section is for the same
reason. Track or rail for the railroads is just to add to what they are really referred to.
And, then, I get a renumbering also. So, Section 10 is requesting the elimination of an
expired time requirement for when someone needs to move their car, for how long until
they move it back. So, this gets used a lot for neighborhood disputes for callbacks for
us as people will say, well, it moved, but now it's back and like if you are in front -- in
front of your house you should just be able to park in front of your house and we just
want to know that the vehicles move and so this expiration just gets rid of one ability for
us to be utilized for like neighborhood spats essentially, because -- and the other option
would be for them to move 500 feet and park in front of your house instead of my
house. The next section is just a flaw in very few roads. There are roads that you turn
on to that are turned on to a traffic lane and there is not a lane wide enough for parking,
but it's not a section long enough for a no parking sign to be posted. So, this happens
to us over at Overland and Millennial is that people will turn and park at those
restaurants on the roadway, but it's not suitable, it's towable, because they are
technically parked in a -- in a lane of travel, but we don't currently have a site that we
can use for those vehicles. So, it just gives us more ability to be able to educate
someone with a ticket, instead of towing their car. Okay. And C-1 is just a redundant
code. We use a different section for traffic control devices, whereas the other one says
posted -- posted signs. This was just an add-on. It wasn't a complete sentence. So,
parking a vehicle in such manner is what we are fighting for and just looking to improve
the writing of it. Again, another rewrite. And, then, this is page seven. So, adding,
again, the portion. Potential concern here is a change that I'm requesting for utility
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trailers. So, currently a vehicle can be parked on a roadway for 72 hours before it's
required to move. An unattached trailer has to be moved every two hours unless it
meets an exemption for construction permits or actively loading or unloading. This
would be asking for it to be consistent and adding trailers to the same time period as a
vehicle already is, giving us a better ability to enforce. We currently can't enforce that
two hours anyway. So, usually it becomes a next day issue and if our goal is to educate
and gain compliance people that are at work usually can't do that anyway within two
hours. This is the first time where you will see this and it comes down to a lot of this
section. This is actually what caused us to do the rewrite on Title 7 was the fact that we
realized that our exceptions that are written in at the bottom of this title or this chapter
were written in a way that would have allowed exemptions to occur for all of the
violations above it. So, for example, if you don't have current registration or a license
plate you are technically exempt if you are unloading or loading your vehicle or any of
the other exceptions. So, all of these sections were written to change the exceptions
into each specific code that they were intended to exempt the vehicle from, instead of
exempting all vehicles from all exceptions. One that was added is the pull trailers and
semi trailers, whether or not attached to a vehicle, we would like them to all be treated
the same, unless they meet one of the other exceptions. So, they would have to still
currently move the 72 hours and if there -- and, then, it's moving those exceptions under
each code. If this is getting confusing for you guys to read it's confusing for me to read
also, so I apologize. Section B of page eight, we are asking for that to be removed and
that's another time where that time limit is on there that says that a vehicle must move
every -- for 24 hours if-- if it's cited for the 72 hour violation it's supposed to move out of
that area of 500 feet for 24 hours before it returns. It's just asking for that to be
removed. If a vehicle doesn't move we currently just issue a warning for 48 hours as
abandoned and start the process of removal of those vehicles and so this, again, is
usually utilized in neighbors that constantly will call in their neighbors the second that a
vehicle is outstanding.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Quick question. Can you just refresh my memory with the -- is it 72 hours for
RVs? Is that where we landed outside of an HOA regulation?
Ooi: Yes. That's correct. So, RVs are currently one of the -- they meet one of the
exceptions that allows them to be there for 72 hours just as a vehicle.
Strader: Right.
Ooi: So, they don't meet the restriction of the 12,000 gross vehicle weight. They are
excluded from that.
Strader: Got it. Yeah. So, I think this makes a lot of sense, because it's very simple.
Everything has a 72 hour rule. So, I applaud you for trying to just simplify.
Meridian City Council Work Session
August 15,2023
Page 22 of 25
Ooi: And -- and that is part of the goal and now that the Mayor left the room I'm going to
awkwardly bring him up. He has tasked us with trying to find a way within the next year
to see if we can revamp our codes to actually do away with the 72 hours, but still
address our concerns for vehicles that are inoperative or dismantled left on the roadway
and so we are potentially reviewing that, whether or not we can kind of address them as
junk vehicles that are defined in the nuisance code and to see if we can enforce them,
but we don't want to leave the 72 hours and remove it before we come up with a
practical way to enforce ones that are left standing. So, we were looking for that
consistency to make it more gradual of a change for the community. Do you have any
further -- okay. Okay. So, the exceptions you will see here, that's -- two of those have
been removed. So, then, they just need to be remembered, because they don't address
all vehicles. There is just the couple that are left there that are -- that would be
exemptions for all conditions of vehicles for emergency response. Another thing that we
noticed is the section says that it's allowed if it's been issued as city permit -- a permit
by City of Meridian, but because our roadways are owned by ACHD we needed to give
them the authority to also issue permits that exempt the right vehicles. Page 9 is 726,
so that's where we have added the parks codes that were moved from Title 13 over to
the park section and so 726 is currently there for public parking and so it's just adding
city parks on to that section. And, then, it would make those -- the fine for Section 6-
726, is 50 dollars and so that's where the penalty would come back from that hundred
dollars and changing it to 50 dollars and, then, the new section that it's being moved to.
And, then, it added Section B, which deals with the parks pathways, as well as the
parking lot, because these -- Section 726-A was regarding the parking lots, but because
some of our problems come with the vehicles parking on pathways this gives us the
ability to also cite in those locations by adding that section. 725 is written in because
human resources recently started issuing the employee parking tags as vinyl stickers
instead of the hang tags. So, we needed to address placement of those, so that we can
defend those tickets if we end up in court. So, before it just said clearly visible or visibly
-- clearly displayed, but when our officers look for that we can be looking on the rear
side, the front side, under someone's console or floor mat. What their idea of visible is
may not be ours and this makes enforcement easier and makes the follow through
easier if we request where that placement is done on the vehicle. And I believe that's all
and I will stand for questions.
Simison: Thank you. Councilman, questions?
Overton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Overton.
Overton: To Lacy and Emily, all the years that we sat and did rewrites in the past, this is
a good cleanup. I like what you have done. I like how you have -- we always have to
do these cleanups because we have to address things that have changed and you have
done a great job going through here addressing all the different things that have
changed in our community. Some of the things even when we have done rewrites in the
past we have still ended up with code sections that were virtually impossible to enforce
Meridian City Council Work Session
August 15,2023
Page 23 of 25
and each rewrite it seems like we do a better job of making it easier for both code
enforcement or community service officers and our police officers when they get
dispatched to actually take action or explain why they can't. So, I thought it was really
well written job, both sets of codes and just want to say thank you to both of you.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: I echo that. I think this cleans it up, but I -- I do have a question particularly
about the trailer parking for 72 hours and because Ms. Kane has done an excellent job
of educating me about parking versus storage and so when I look at these trailers,
particularly if they are not attached to a vehicle, I would look at that as storage on public
streets and not parking on public streets. This is where I get excited, because you get
to tell me, Council Member Cavener, that's where you are wrong and better educate me
about how we are seeing the difference. There we go.
Ooi: And I choose my own adventure things that you may ask me. I projected this
could possibly happen.
Cavener: At least I'm predictable.
Ooix: You guys always ask me a question I don't prepare for, so I feel a little bit good
that I had some inkling this might come up. So, things that we see in enforcement is,
one -- number one -- and -- and I would almost be as willing to separate the two,
although I think that separating them would cause more difficulties -- is boats. So, when
people come and they are preparing their boats it's similar to the RV issue where they
need to pull them out, prepare them and get them ready and, then, their requirements of
cleaning them off for their back end storage is where we usually see this problem and
it's not practical for them to do within two hours. So, what happens -- and very
frequently with boats and utility trailers -- is that they are allowed on three -- for three
days for the 72 hours if they attach them to a vehicle. So, instead of moving them off
the street they just attach a truck, which, then, places two vehicles onto the roadway
instead of removing one. So, the last time that I was in front of you guys we did change
the parking standards to allow one trailer on the driveway and so we are continuously
working and educating people that they are now allowed to have those, which helps for
people that are contractors specifically that need access to their trailers all the time. So,
they can now put one on their driveway and move them and so there is that education
branch of trying to get the trailers moved into the driveways instead of the streets. But a
lot of them still prefer to have access to their garage and not use their driveway. So,
they are putting the truck back on there. Another thing that we see as frequently is like
today and me having someone come in to complain about a ticket is that -- that they
were issued is that the exception allows for trailers to be there as long as there is a
permit issued; right? So, like a construction permit is valid for six months and if they are
within the one hundred feet of the valid construction permit, then, they can stay there for
the duration of construction. But if you have a project at your home that you are doing
Meridian City Council Work Session
August 15,2023
Page 24 of 25
that doesn't require a permit, then, they don't meet the requirements for the exception
and so people that need to be able to get in and out, maybe if they are building a patio,
which doesn't require a permit, then, they can't access their supplies and then -- and --
and people that hired them don't necessarily want their trailer in their driveway or if they
are dealing with a concrete trailer, you know, that's pouring their concrete it has to be
level. So, there is just certain issues that we see consistently. It's not necessary -- and
-- and it is a concern that people would just start leaving their trailers. I -- and I do
understand that as a possibility, but what we already see is people that will move them
back across the street, move them back and forth or attach them to another vehicle. It
tends to be that the 90 percent of people that just want to follow the rules do it and the
other ten percent keep us employed.
Cavener: And, Mr. Mayor, one --
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Just wanting to make sure -- this change wouldn't allow someone, though, to
set up again a pop-up trailer and camp out of it for two or three days.
Ooi: So, the UDC still covers the traveling sleeping quarters and won't allow
inhabitants.
Cavener: I appreciate this is -- this nerdy stuff and you always come prepared.
Ooi: Nerdy stuff is totally me. Yeah.
Cavener: I know. And I -- you have helped over the years educate me tremendously.
So, I appreciate you tonight and -- and you are continuing to work with Council and
educate us on these things.
Simison: Council, any additional questions? Okay. Well, we will see this come back at
a latter point -- point in time. So, thank you very much.
EXECUTIVE SESSION
13. Per Idaho Code 74-206A (1)(a): To Deliberate on a labor contract offer
or to formulate a counteroffer.
Simison: So, with that we are on Item 13.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor? Are you going to do that after --
Simison: There was one element that you wanted to do that that was added on
beforehand?
Hoaglun: Okay. Mr. Mayor?
Meridian City Council Work Session
August 15,2023
Page 25 of 25
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: I move that we go into Executive Session under 74-206(d).
Cavener: Second.
Simison: Have a motion and a second to go into Executive Session. Is there any
discussion? If not, Clerk will call the roll.
Roll Call: Hoaglun, yea; Borton, absent; Cavener, yea; Perreault, absent; Strader, yea;
Overton, yea.
Simison: All ayes. Motion carries and we will move into Executive Session.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. TWO ABSENT.
EXECUTIVE SESSION: (5:48 p.m. to 6:04 p.m.)
Simison: Council, do I have a motion?
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor, I move we come out of Executive Session.
Cavener: Second.
Simison: Have a motion and second to come out of Executive Session. All in favor
signify by saying aye. Opposed nay? The ayes have it and we are out of Executive
Session.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. TWO ABSENT.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor, I move that we adjourn the work session.
Simison: Have a motion to adjourn. All in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay?
The ayes have it and we are adjourned.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. TWO ABSENT.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 6.04 P.M.
(AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
MAYOR ROBERT E. SIMISON 9/5/2023
ATTEST:
CHRIS JOHNSON - CITY CLERK