HomeMy WebLinkAbout2023-05-23 Regular Meridian City Council May 23, 2023.
A Meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 6.09 p.m. Tuesday, May
23, 2023, by Mayor Robert Simison.
Members Present: Robert Simison, Joe Borton, Brad Hoaglun, Luke Cavener, Jessica
Perreault, Liz Strader and John Overton.
Also present: Chris Johnson, Bill Nary, Bill Parsons, Sonya Allen, Stacy Hersh, Scott
Colaianni, Jordan Reese and Dean Willis.
ROLL-CALL ATTENDANCE
Liz Strader X Joe Borton
_X_ Brad Hoaglun _X_ John Overton
_X_ Jessica Perreault _S_Luke Cavener
X Mayor Robert E. Simison
Simison: All right. Council, we will call the meeting to order. For the record it is May
23rd, 2023, at 6.09 p.m. We will begin this evening's City Council meeting with roll call
attendance.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
Simison: Next is the Pledge of Allegiance. If you would all, please, rise and join us in
the pledge.
(Pledge of Allegiance recited.)
COMMUNITY INVOCATION
Simison: Next up will be our community invocation, which this evening will be delivered
by Pastor Troy Drake. If you would all, please, join us in the community invocation or
take this as a moment of silence and reflection. Pastor.
Drake: Mr. Mayor, Council Members, would you join me? Lord God, we just appreciate
this beautiful place that we get to live in and your grace upon us and, you know, our
heart just breaks for those who are going through difficult times and we appreciate that
you are always just as close as a prayer and so we appreciate that about you, God, that
you are always inclining your ear towards us and so, God, I just lift up our -- our city,
especially thinking about the citizens and that, you know, we would just treat one
another with respect and kindness here and continue, you know, what's been -- what's
been already -- the foundation that's been laid here in this town and, Lord, that you
would just bless the work of our hands here. God, we pray for the -- those who protect
us, the first responders, those who come to our aid when we need help and we just ask
that you would protect them as they do and -- and, God, I'm also thinking about
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everything that happens in this building. And we just appreciate all the thought and
planning that goes into the buildings that we walk in and out of all the time, Lord, that
they are safe. It's not that way everywhere and we just appreciate that it is here and
that these folks do that hard work for us and that you would bless them and, then, last,
but not least, God, I just ask that you bless this Council meeting, the Mayor and Council
Members, the decisions they make, that you would just give them a lot of wisdom and
grace as they, you know, tackle the small and big decisions here. So, we just thank you
for them and asked that they would prosper. In your name we pray, amen. Thanks for
the opportunity.
Simison: Thank you.
ADOPTION OF AGENDA
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: I move that we adopt the agenda as published.
Overton: Second.
Simison: Have a motion and a second to adopt the agenda as published. Is there any
discussion? If not, all in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay? The ayes have it
and the agenda is adopted.
MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES.
PROCLAMATION
1. Older Americans Month Proclamation
Simison: First item up will be a proclamation for Older Americans Month. Raul with the
Area 3 Senior Services Agency, if you want to join me at the podium for this
proclamation. So, we are going to be celebrating Older Americans Month this month of
May. Raul reached out and asked us if we would do a proclamation this year. So, I will
go ahead and read the proclamation and, then, turn it over to you for any additional
comments that you would like to make in this regard. So, whereas every May the
Administration for Community Living leads the nation's observance and celebration of
Older Americans Month, OAM, and whereas the 2023 theme is Aging Unbound, which
offers an opportunity to explore diverse aging experiences and discuss how
communities can combat stereotypes and whereas the City of Meridian includes 26,690
older Americans, which is 21 percent of the city population who contribute their time,
wisdom and experience to our community and whereas communities in Idaho benefit
when people of all ages, abilities and backgrounds have the opportunity to participate
and live independently and remain engaged and included and whereas the City of
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Meridian recognizes the need to create a community that offers the services and
supports older adults may need to make choices about how they age. Therefore, I,
Mayor Robert E. Simpson, do hereby proclaim May 2023 as Older Americans Month in
the City of Meridian and encourage all citizens to celebrate our older citizens, help to
create inclusive society and accept the challenge of flexible thinking around aging. So,
thank you and I'm happy to present this to you, Raul.
Enriquez: So, we -- we are here in Meridian. I'm at the Southwest Idaho Area Agency
on Aging. We have multiple senior services programs. We just wanted to take this
opportunity to reach out and recognize the older population. If you go to
southwestidahoa3ssa.com you can see all our programs and services that are there.
So, thank you.
PUBLIC FORUM — Future Meeting Topics
Simison: Okay. Next up is public forum. Mr. Clerk, did we have anyone sign up?
Johnson: Mr. Mayor, we did not.
ACTION ITEMS
2. Public Hearing for Crowley Park Subdivision (H-2023-0006) by Riley
Planning Services, located at 4135 W. Cherry Ln.
A. Request: Annexation of 1.002 acres of land with an R-8 zoning
district.
B. Request: Preliminary Plat consisting of 5 residential building lots
(including one existing home to remain).
C. Request: Alternative Compliance.
Simison: Okay. Then we will go into Action Items. Item 2 is public hearing for Crowley
Park Subdivision, H-2023-0006. We will open this public hearing with staff comments.
Hersh: Good evening, Mayor and City Council. The applicant is here to present their
project for the Crowley Park Subdivision. The applications that were submitted were
annexation and zoning, preliminary plat and alternative compliance, which doesn't
require Council action and I just wanted to note that the project was denied at the City
Council hearing on April 6th. The site consists of 1.002 acres of land, zoned R-1 in Ada
county, located at 4125 West Cherry Lane. There is no history on the -- for the project.
The comprehensive FLUM designation is medium density residential and the summary
of the request is -- this is an in-fill project. The applicant is proposing for annexation of
1.002 acres of land with an R-8 zoning district, preliminary plat consisting of five
residential building lots, including one existing home to remain, and one common lot
and three alternative compliance requests at a gross density of 4.99 units per acre,
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which is within the desired density range of the medium density residential designation
for Crowley Park Subdivision. The proposed development offers lot sizes ranging from
4,011 square feet to 5,768 square feet, with the existing home on 9,744 square feet.
Single family detached and attached homes are listed as a principal permitted use in the
R-8 zoning district per the UDC. Future development is subject to the dimensional
standards in the UDC for the R-8 zoning district. An existing home on the property is
proposed to remain on Lot 1, Block 1, and is required to connect to city and water
services within the 60 days of it becoming available. The outbuildings located on Lots
2, 3 and 4, Block 1, should be removed with the development of this property and there
are three alternative compliance requests. The first one is for the common driveway
shall serve a maximum of four dwelling units. In no case show more than three dwelling
units be located on one side of the driveway. The applicant is proposing five dwelling
units take access off the common driveway. All five dwelling units are also located on
one side of the driveway. Alternative compliance to the common driveway standards is
requested due to the lot only having access from an arterial -- arterial roadway. There is
no local street connection available to this site and based on the analysis the director is
supportive of the request for alternative for the proposed five dwelling units taking
access off the west side of the common driveway. And the next -- number two all
alternative compliance request is the existing home does not meet the required number
of off-street parking spaces per the UDC. For a three bedroom home four parking
spaces are required, at least two in an enclosed garage. Other spaces may be
enclosed or a minimum of a ten foot by 20 foot parking pad. The existing home does
not have an enclosed two car garage. However, the required number of parking spaces
is provided via an existing attached carport and driveway. Based on the analysis, the
director is supportive of the request for alternative compliance for -- for the existing
carport, with the addition of the Hardie board to match the existing house. Off-street
parking is required to be provided in accordance with the standards listed in the UDC for
single family dwellings based on the number of bedrooms per unit. Staff will confirm --
confirm compliance with these standards at the time of the building permit submittal for
each residence. The applicant has provided an additional three parking stalls at the end
of the common drive on the southeast side of the site for overflow parking.
Landscaping. A 25 foot landscape buffer is required to west -- along West Cherry Lane
in accordance with the UDC. Alternative compliance to the landscape buffer width is
requested due to the front porch on the existing home encroaching more than two feet
into the required landscape buffer. Based on the analysis the director is supportive of
the request for alternative compliance with staffs recommendation to modify the plans.
The applicant has submitted a revised landscape plan that looks to meet the UDC
standards. In response to the Commission's concerns regarding the alternative
compliance, the amount of numerous alternative compliance requests, staff has
suggested utilizing the water conserving design specified in the UDC to eliminate one of
the alternative compliance requests. This design allows for a potential reduction of up
to 50 percent of the street landscape buffer. The applicant may intend to utilize the
landscape design and propose a reduction of five feet to the buffer to accommodate the
encroachment of the porch. Staff recommends that the -- that this condition be added
to the staff report for the applicant to submit a revised landscape plan if they so choose
to pick the water conserving design that adheres to the -- that design stated in the UDC
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with the final plat submittal. Access is proposed from West Cherry Lane from common
drive Lot 2, Block 1. Direct -- direct lot access from West Cherry Lane for Lot 1, Block 1,
is prohibited. The interior Lots 3, 4, 5 and 6, Block 1, are proposed to take access via a
common drive to West Cherry Lane, meeting the street access requirements. Common
open space and amenities are not required for properties less than five acres in size.
And building -- conceptual -- one conceptual building elevation was submitted that
demonstrates what future homes in this development will look like. Variations of two-
story homes with a two car garage are proposed. The submitted elevations depict field
materials of lap siding, different coloring accents, roof profiles and stone. The final
design of the structure is required to comply with the design standards in the
Architectural Standards Manual. Commission did recommend denial. In favor of the
project was Penelope Constantikes. In opposition was none. Commenting was
Penelope again. Written testimonies. None. Key issues were none. Discussion of key
issues by Commission was concerns with the amount of density proposed on the one
acre lot. Concerns with emergency services ability to gain access in and out of the
property. Not in agreement with the alternative compliance for the use of lattice on both
sides of the existing attached carport as mitigation for an enclosed garage and concerns
with the overall parking. And here is some pictures of the existing home and site. And
that concludes Staff's presentation and I stand for any questions.
Simison: Thank you, Stacy. Council, questions for staff? Okay. Would the applicant
like to come forward? Good evening.
Constantikes: Good evening, Mayor, Council. For the record, Penelope Constantikes.
Post Office Box 405, Boise, Idaho. 83701. Just a brief comment on staff's presentation.
You did get to it at the end there, that they recommended denial. It wasn't a City
Council hearing. So, I'm pleased to present Crowley Park Subdivision to you this
evening. It is an in-fill development between Ten Mile and Black Cat Road. The
applications before you, as you are aware, include annexation of an Ada county parcel,
with a zoning designation of R-8, which is consistent with the Meridian future land use
medium density residential designation. This subdivision creates four new mid-range
housing options in this area of Meridian on individual lots available for purchase without
expanding city services or adding roadway. The gross density of the proposed
subdivision is identical to the adjacent Cherrywood Village Subdivision to the west. In
the near proximity to the site are a number of services that are bikeable and walkable,
including banking, groceries and pharmacy, coffee and casual meals. Church and golf.
Golf is always important. As well as medical and veterinarian services. This proposal is
com -- excuse me -- consistent with the Comprehensive Plan and complies with the
standards and allowances that are provided in the UDC. Crowley Park will utilize
existing infrastructure and will not add to the geography of fire, emergency, and police
service areas. The applicant and project team have reviewed the staff report and
concur. ACHD staff report approved access to the site and I would like to mention that
staff is always very knowledgeable. They are always very informative and their
professionalism is much appreciated. Contrary to what the Planning and Zoning
Commission was concerned about, this access is 24 feet wide, which is two travel
lanes, and it meets the City of Meridian Fire Department standards for emergency
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access with enough width for two travel lanes. In three pre -- pre-application meetings
the Fire Department's only question was about paving the shared driveway. A new fire
hydrant is proposed for the site with -- with -- between Lots 1 and 2. Each of the new
dwellings will have a two car garage and a driveway that provides two additional parking
spaces. Although the parking provided is consistent with UDC, the site design includes
three additional guest spaces and based on my discussions with Chief Deputy
Bongiorno it may be possible to add a couple more. The existing residents will have a
minimum of four parking spaces. The three in the -- in the three pre-application
meetings that were held with staff we did try to create an appropriate site design and
there were two neighborhood meetings. The adjacent neighbors came to the first
neighborhood meeting to inquire about water delivery. No one attended the second
meeting. But the neighbors were quite helpful when I reached out to them regarding
historic irrigation water delivery information. The front porch of the residents intrudes as
you know into the regular 25 foot wide landscape area. After the Planning and Zoning
hearing the applicant opted to use the water conservation design option to reduce the
landscape buffer five feet or about 20 percent to keep their front porch intact and I did
on Monday submit an updated preliminary plat and an updated landscape plan that
reflected that option. A revised preliminary plat landscape plan were submitted. I
believe that the updated landscape plan does meet the intent of the code, but we will
work with staff to make sure that the landscape plan is compliant. If Council prefers we
would be happy to meander the common lot around the front porch and keep the bulk of
it 25 feet. I would like to maybe keep that water conservation landscaping intact
regardless of which way we go with that. It's just an easy drawing change. The existing
home was constructed in 1938 and remodeled in 1958. The real river rock detailing on
the front is quite charming. The home is well built and still has good life in it. The
applicant has updated and refreshed the home to enhance the street view and the
personal space features. An alternative compliant application was approved by the
Planning Director for the carport. To mitigate the carport, the applicant has replaced the
originally proposed lattice with Hardie board cladding on the visible sides, which is north
and west, to match the residents. Access to the carport will be shifted to the south in
combination with two additional parking spaces for a total of four. The application also
includes a request for nonconforming use and the applicant does understand that if
anything about that house was to change in the future it would require a conditional use
permit. With the existing perimeter fencing and new fencing that will be installed
between Lots 1 and 2, the rear entrance or the south entrance of the carport shouldn't
be visible to anyone. The site design includes more than three -- more than the allowed
three residents on the same side of the access drive, as you have -- staff has already
discussed. In our discussions with staff it seemed like matching backyard to backyard --
thank you, Bill -- was a good idea to be sensitive to the adjacent neighbors. So, with the
short access drive distance the applicant believed that matching backyards and being
sensitive to the adjacent neighbors was more important than asking for an alternative
compliance. The site does have irrigation water rights, but they can't be delivered.
According to Settlers there is a private lateral that had at one time delivered water, but
the lateral no longer functions. The residence does have a well with sufficient capacity
to serve the irrigation needs of the entire site. Of course, the existing home will be
connected to city water and sewer. The proposal is to use the well managed by the
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HOA to serve all the irrigation needs for Crowley Park. Most of the existing trees are
healthy and will be preserved and the project team will work with the city arborist for any
needed mitigation and, finally, the parcel to the east of the site is also a candidate for in-
fill development and the service drive could be utilized to combine access points if the
city and ACHD are interested in that. It's just a five foot wide landscape buffer that we
would need to make paving over, so -- and that keeps the consolidated access points.
The team has reviewed the site specific conditions of approval and agree, including the
requirement of a development agreement. I noticed the design changes that are
requested for water service and I will bring this to the attention of the project engineer
for corrections. I do hope that I have covered the important details and provided you
with the information that you need. Your preference on the method for the landscape
buffer would be appreciated and I respectfully request your approval of the annexation,
zoning and the preliminary plat. This is an appropriate opportunity to add to
complementary mid-range -- mid-range housing close to many retail and commercial
amenities, without expanding services. I do thank you for your patience and your
interest. Please let me know if you have any questions or directions on how to make
this project better or if you would like me to get into greater detail. I would be happy to
provide additional details or discuss any element of the project that you would like and
with that I would stand for questions.
Simison: Thank you, Penelope. Council, questions for the applicant?
Constantikes: No questions?
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Penelope, nice to see you.
Constantikes: Thank you.
Cavener: I always admire your tenacity for these kind of challenging projects. So, my
question comes from kind of your opening comment and so do you feel that the
Planning and Zoning Commission made an error --
Constantikes: No. It's just that in the beginning of the staff report it was stated that the
Council denied the application. I just wanted to clarify that. That was all.
Cavener: All right.
Constantikes: Thank you.
Cavener: But no questions at this time, Mr. Mayor.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
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Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: Thank you for your presentation. It was -- it's very helpful to understand
exactly what has transpired. You had mentioned that the applicant would agree to any
modifications to the existing structure to be approved through a conditional use permit in
the future.
Constantikes: Yes, ma'am.
Perreault: Those are physical changes to the structure. Is there -- was there any
conversation of -- of whether that could become a business at some point? Because if I
recall correctly it was or has had a business in there in the past and so I'm -- I'm curious
if the applicant is willing to agree to that limitation in the DA. I know that --
Constantikes: Go ahead. I'm sorry.
Perreault: And -- and certainly I would like to hear from my fellow Council, their
thoughts on that, but because this home faces -- because of the -- the orientation of it,
it's -- it -- it is a natural good location for a business. Obviously, the parking is not going
to allow for that if somebody were to choose to try to turn it into -- into a business.
Constantikes: Mayor, Council Woman, I -- my understanding is that it's intended to
remain residential and -- and it was -- I mean they put a lot of work into dressing the
house up inside and bringing it up to code and whatnot. So, no, I -- I don't think that
there would be a problem with that at all. It was a business -- I think there was a
business in there at one time, but it's been quite some time ago.
Simison: Council, any additional questions for the applicant? Okay.
Constantikes: Are you sure?
Simison: I -- I don't think you are off the hook yet, but --
Constantikes: Okay.
Simison: -- I think we will see if there is any from the community that would like to
provide testimony.
Constantikes: Thank you.
Simison: Thanks.
Johnson: Mr. Mayor, nobody marked that they wanted to speak.
Simison: Okay. Is there anybody in the audience who would like to come forward and
provide testimony on this application or anybody online that would like to provide
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testimony on this application, you can use to raise your hand feature. Seeing no one
coming forward and no one raising their hand, would the applicant like to make any final
comments to close or give Council time for any additional questions or comments?
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: I do have a quick question for the fire department? Hello. It seems you could
get in. How would you get out?
Reese: Council Women Strader, we do have many residences such as this and with
access such as this we probably wouldn't be pulling all the way in, just due to proximity.
So, most likely it's a back -- pull in, back out type of situation for us.
Constantikes: Mr. Mayor, if I might address that?
Simison: Council Woman Strader, do you have any follow up that you want to make
with Captain Reese?
Strader: Mr. Mayor, I don't have any follow up for you, but I have some follow up for the
Fire Department, who are the experts on what they can and can't do. So, I'm going to
stick with speaking with them. What were you -- can you just explore that. You wouldn't
pull all the way in -- could you help me understand if that --
Reese: It would depend on what the incident was. If something was on fire we would
need to keep a -- keep away from it enough so we don't melt our apparatus. So, if -- if --
if it was on fire. But if it was a medical call we could pretty easily get in there and, then,
get out and not having looked at the plans I'm not sure if there is a proper place for a
turnaround, but -- but there is a hammerhead, so it looks like we could pull in, turn
around and, then, get out.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Penelope, would you like to comment?
Constantikes: Yes, that would be great. Thank you, Mayor, Council Woman. Yeah, we
-- we had pretty extensive discussions with Joe Bongiorno and we have got a -- the
hammerhead in there and there will have to be no parking signs. But we did provide for
fire department turnaround on the site.
Strader: Mr. Mayor, thank you.
Simison: Thank you.
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Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader -- or Perreault.
Perreault: Thank you. Just to follow up on that, with the -- the hammerhead that was
added, where do the three parking spots hit the three off -- off-site parking spots hit in
relationship to that?
Constantikes: They would be south of the -- of the end of the -- the southern leg of the
hammerhead. So, they don't -- the parking spaces won't obstruct the fire truck. They
are -- they are beyond the -- the depth that's required for the leg of the hammerhead, so
-- and, again, we -- we presented that to Joe. Actually that was an outgrowth of my
conversation with the Deputy Chief.
Perreault: Thank you.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Yeah. Penelope, it sounds like the homeowner has already taken out the
lattice and put in the Hardie board that was recommended. Is -- did I hear that
correctly?
Constantikes: Mayor, Councilman, no, not yet. But we will -- we will do that
replacement and it will be painted and trimmed to match the house.
Hoaglun: Okay. And one of the concerns the Commission expressed was the amount
of density proposed for one acre and I think it has to do with, you know, the single --
single access point, but it is going to be wide enough per -- per code what's required
and yet I thought -- and -- and maybe this is a question for -- for staff, but if used by one
residence -- we aren't actually in compliance with our future land use map, but what
they call for medium density. Is -- is that -- is that right or is it still within the ratio of what
medium density residential would be?
Hersh: Mr. Mayor, Councilman Hoaglun, the density should still be within the range,
three to eight units per acre, so it -- I believe that it's 4.99, so it will still comply.
Hoaglun: Okay. Thank you. And, Mr. Mayor, follow up?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Yeah, Penelope, has there been discussion about that -- you know, it -- it
sounds like there is access for fire department to -- to access the site. If -- if we don't
have a business that -- that makes -- that we make sure that there is not a parking
issue, which there would be if they tried to make it a business. So, I was just mentally
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thinking, okay, if we reduce it there -- because one of the concerns the Commission also
expressed was the overflow parking and it sounds like -- could you reiterate, do you --
you meet the required amount of parking necessary for having the original house, plus
the four new residences, for -- for this site?
Constantikes: Mayor, Councilman, actually we exceed the required parking. The
Meridian standards require two parking spaces per residence and so we have that, plus
we have enough depth on the driveways to provide two more parking spaces. So, each
residence technically has four spaces and -- and, then, for the front house there is the
two carport spaces. Then there will be a pad to provide two more spaces, because it's
a three bedroom house. But they have quite a lengthy driveway. So, they could
actually have a couple more cars at the front house and still not have a problem with
overflow. With the -- with regard to the question about density, our density is identical to
the density next door and as a former transportation planner I'm always excited actually,
when -- when I can shepherd one of these difficult projects, which always seem to land
in my office, because -- because it's -- I mean there is everything that you could possibly
want on a daily basis just down the road. I mean everything -- more than normal in
terms of the services that are available, so -- and it provides -- it's a demographic shift.
So much of what's going on in that part of Meridian is the traditional single family
detached dwellings and for someone like me who is a professional and single, these are
identical -- or these are ideal for someone like me. So, I would hope that maybe we
could keep the -- the density the way it's proposed. And we did initially propose to do
the driveway so that we had three residences on one, so, actually, we are going to do
two and two. So, they weren't on the same side. But, again, in discussions with staff --
and because this -- the backyards on the adjacent homes are so small, they are tiny,
that we thought if we shifted and had all the homes with backyard to backyard, it would
actually be better for our neighbors. So, we tried to put a lot of thought into how this
was designed to make it as compatible as possible.
Hoaglun: And, Mr. Mayor, I think I have one last --
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: -- dealing with the porch and I -- I think the director -- you have got to do the
water saving landscaping and whatnot and that's -- that's interesting -- not the water
saving part, but we -- we need to have an alternative compliance when this road -- when
-- when this house was originally built and I'm old enough to remember when Cherry
Lane was just two lanes each way -- that road frontage was way out front. I mean -- so,
it's a matter of the road expanding and coming closer, that way that -- you know, through
no fault of the homeowners of that time, they were encroached upon and now it's not in
compliance. So, that's kind of an interesting dynamic that we have to make sure we are
aware of that you can't shift those houses. You can shift roads, but -- yeah, it's just one
of those things that -- but I appreciate you trying to maintain as much of that -- that
requirement as possible.
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Constantikes: Mayor, Councilman -- and, again, I would reiterate that either strategy for
dealing with the landscape buffer is fine. We can -- we can just meander, circumvent
the porch. It's not a perfect house and it's not historic register material, but it is
charming and it is one of the original homes from Meridian. It was built in 1938 and
that's not those wall things that you buy at a Home Depot and slap onto the side of your
house, that's actually real river rock. Great big river rock. So, the materials that we
submitted on Monday are for the 20 percent reduction in the landscape buffer and the
water conserving design, but we will do it the other way. All you have to do is tell me.
Whichever way you would prefer is fine. Thank you.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Thanks, Penelope. Could you tell me about -- I'm a little intrigued by the
prospect of combining with the service drive to the east that you mentioned. Can you
talk to me about that or is that part of your proposal?
Constantikes: Mayor, Council Woman, no, it's not. But I just am aware that that parcel
next door is big enough to -- to be an in-fill development and I think it is also an
enclaved Ada county parcel. Just, again, with the way we designed it there is a five foot
wide landscape buffer in between us and the next door parcel and because of the
classification of Cherry Lane it would be nice if everyone agreed to just add that traffic
and have one consolidated access point. It's not part of the application, it's just one of
those looking forward items that I wanted to bring up in the event that that parcel did
redevelop and ACHD didn't want to have one more access drive close. They even have
a -- they have a separation standard they like to maintain for driveways on arterial
roadways. So, I was just looking ahead and tossing that out as a future potential.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Stacy, can you confirm -- I think that's annexed into the city?
Hersh: Mr. Mayor, yes. So, the properties along the east are already annexed into the
city with an R-4 zoning district. But I guess if they agreed to do some type of driveway
along this side -- yeah.
Simison: Primarily meaning it's not likely to redevelop for any purposes at this point in
time in the near future.
Constantikes: Correct. And I just wanted to -- you know, sometimes looking forward is
beneficial and so I was just looking forward a little bit.
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Meridian City Council
May 23,2023
Page 13 of 49
Strader: Mr. Mayor, yeah. I appreciate the clarification. Though it's not like that's a -- a
prospect that's on the immediate horizon and it doesn't really solve some of the access
and connectivity issues. I just want to be frank. I -- I appreciate the desire to do in-fill. I
think if you could do some land assemblage here, you know, with that adjoining property
and had something bigger to work with it would make more sense. I agreed with the
Planning and Zoning Commission's reasoning. I -- I personally feel like there are too
many variances here and this is a too small of a site for what you are trying to fit in it. It
just doesn't feel like having this much access off of common driveway as practical to
me. I appreciate -- I mean it's very hard to do these and it takes a lot of creativity. I also
have concerns about using a private well in general. Our internal city staff have been
trying to discourage people from continuing to use those and part of the reason is it
actually can affect the water quality in our aquifer. Using a private well is allowed
legally. It's fine. But it -- it does create concerns. So, that's something that you may
wish to discuss with them, even if it's for irrigation purposes. And, finally, I -- in addition
to the different requests for alternative compliance, the amount of density -- I also still
have concerns about emergency services. I understand that it meets their requirements
to -- to turn around. It's going to require -- to me there is no room to maneuver. Even if
it's wide enough -- like what's required here -- hearing the feedback, it's like, well, the
apparatus will melt if we get too close, so it's like, okay, then, I guess you are backed up
past the -- the next building, you know, can -- do you really have sufficient access if
there is a big -- a really big fire, you know, something catastrophic. Is -- is this really --
are we being honest? I mean understand what our requirements are, but is this really
enough room to maneuver? Is this meeting the standard that we need? So, I -- I guess
I would have follow-up questions about that, but I don't want to go down that rabbit hole,
because I agreed with the Commission, I thought that their reasoning was correct.
Some feedback from me. Thank you.
Constantikes: Mayor -- Mayor, may I respond?
Simison: Sure.
Constantikes: Thank you. If you would like the well disconnected, that's fine. I -- I don't
know -- that was new information, so thank you for sharing. I didn't realize that Public
Works had flagged that as being problematic, so -- and, then, knowing the fire code a
little bit the way I need to, I know that if you had a three story building and you had to
bring in your ladder truck, the -- the vehicle -- the fire truck needs to be 15 feet away
from the structure in order to provide I think the firefighters with some maneuvering
space. So, the fire truck, if it uses this drive aisle, will be 20 feet away from the
structure. So, I'm not -- you know, I'm not a fireman. I -- I do spend some time reading
fire code, because I think it's an important part of my job, but I'm not -- I -- I don't know,
I'm sorry that Joe isn't here. Am I correct in my analysis of that?
Reese: You are correct. I'm not Joe.
Constantikes: So --
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May 23,2023
Page 14 of 49
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: If others are interested in further exploring the -- the fire department questions,
I -- I would be okay with that, but I'm a no on this just based on the density and -- and
one acre to me is not -- not sufficient for what they are trying to do. So, I appreciate the
explanation, but I just -- I look at this practically -- even when we have very large
subdivisions with a lot of room to maneuver, I -- I hate common driveways. Having a
development that's exclusively a common driveway is really problematic to me, just
being very up front.
Simison: Council, additional questions or comments? Applicant technically hasn't had
an opportunity to close yet, so we are going to give you that opportunity. I just want to
make sure that everyone is -- not seeing any else, would the applicant like make any
final comments?
Constantikes: Not really. Thank you, Mayor. I always appreciate the opportunity to be
at Meridian, because we have dialogues and I don't actually find that in a lot of other
jurisdictions. So, I appreciate the opportunity to discuss these things with you. It's -- it's
very helpful and I don't have any closing comments, unless there are our final questions
for me. Thank you.
Simison: Thank you.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Move we close the public hearing on No. 2, Crowley Subdivision, H-2023-
0006.
Strader: I would second.
Simison: Motion and second to close the public hearing. Is there any discussion? If
not, all in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay? The ayes have it and the public
hearing is closed.
MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Meridian City Council
May 23,2023
Page 15 of 49
Cavener: I think Council Member Strader summarized my -- many of my comments and
feelings as well and I -- I agree with the decision of the Planning and Zoning
Commission and -- and support denial of this application.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: I have lived near this home for a very long time and probably driven by it
thousands of times and because of my intimate knowledge with it I -- I actually see this
working well and there already is a lane that runs along the east side that I assume is
used to access the back and there was a hair salon that was here, if I remember
correctly. I think the house has been sold since then. So, their -- my main concern was
that they would -- there would be an attempt to use it as a business again and as long
as they are willing to put that into the DA there is not -- it's not permitted I suppose at all
or without a CUP, whatever we think is best, but I -- I actually think that -- I agree that
this is a -- many -- many alternative compliance request, but the applicant, from what I
can tell, has addressed all of them in -- in every way that staff thought was appropriate.
So, I'm actually a yes on this. I'm happy to make a motion if it's appropriate, but --
Parsons: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Mr. Parsons.
Parsons: Again, I also appreciate the dialogue this evening, but I just want some
clarification as to your definition of a business. If the Council does approve the
annexation and the plat tonight, this property would technically be zoned R-8 in the city
and a person could apply for a home occupation, which would allow you to use a portion
of your home. So, I don't know if that's the business that was being operated out of the
home or not, but that's pretty standard practice in Meridian. We do approve quite a few
accessory use permits or home occupation permits to allow people to do that and that
could even occur with the other four units that are -- that could potentially be built in
here. So, if that's your intention to prohibit all businesses from operating here, then, I
would make it clear in your -- the zoning is already going to limit what a commercial
business can do on the property, just because it's a residential, but if it's truly your intent
to limit customers coming here and, then, running an in-home business, then, I would
suggest potentially adding that in your motion that no home occupation should be
allowed to operate from this -- this site, so that it's clear for us to at least look at that DA
and enforce that.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: Home occupation business I think is -- is fine. The main concern is parking
and -- and not having individuals come to the -- the homes. There was a salon there
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May 23,2023
Page 16 of 49
prior, but, then, of course, there was plenty of space for parking and -- and as we know
there is -- there is individuals who run businesses out of their homes that don't -- don't
have permission to do so. My -- my thought was not so much an individual working
from home themselves, but, you know, in the past we have had residents who have
applied for daycare applications and those kinds of things which -- and anything, really,
that would require parking. So, I don't know how that will -- the code would address that
in regard to it being R-8 residential if there would be any limitation in the future for them
to apply for something like that. Do you have a recommendation on how I would state
that?
Parsons: Mayor and Council, home occupations don't necessarily require more parking
than what the UDC does. So, in this particular case if any one of these homes were to
be approved, then, the planner that reviews that permit looks for parking and if it's a
three bedroom -- four bedroom home, we are looking to make sure that it has the -- the
four parking spaces per code. So, there is really nothing that can really address that.
To your point, a lot of the in-home businesses are in-home daycares of six or fewer or a
salon, a personal service. So, those are, again, permitted uses under that avenue for a
property owner to pursue with us. And, again, if they meet code we approve them at
staff level. So, to just kind of pinpoint that is -- it's -- it is going to be difficult for us to
track some of that, to be honest with you, in a development agreement.
Overton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Overton.
Overton: I kind of struggle with this one, because I know a lot of work has gone into it
and I appreciate your presentation, but there is certain parts of it I can't get past. I'm
really struggling with and I -- I understand that the density matches the development to
the west. I see the development of the west has plenty of room for overflow parking and
plenty of room for emergency vehicle access on multiple ways to get in and out and this
doesn't. I think your density is still too high for the limited amount of room you have on
this one acre lot and I don't think I could support it the way it stands.
Simison: And, Council, I will just chime in, because I -- I think it has one too many, just
from a practical standpoint and -- and that's -- you know, it is the zoning. It is the last
piece of in-fill. If it's not -- if -- if this project -- it's like I think that's one of the questions is
what -- if not this project what project? Would it require a tear down of the existing
structure to be redesigned at a higher density? Would that be okay? Or if the existing
structure were to remain what would be the density that would be allowed or is there
something else. But it is a challenge and it's -- it's a struggle when it's the last in-fill
piece, it's meeting the density of the area. You know, instead of just saying, okay, well,
now we just think three is the right number, which is, then, outside of what you are --
what's okay. So, it's somewhere within here or it's don't come back unless you are
willing to redevelop the entire property in a different way in the future and I -- I think that
that would at least be -- if it -- if it's a no this evening -- a good thing for the applicant to
Meridian City Council
May 23,2023
Page 17 of 49
know is like what is it that would -- that it would take that they could legitimately do to
this property if they say evidently want to be residents of the city of Meridian.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Yeah. That's -- that's -- that was my line of thinking, you know, as I was
asking Penelope those questions, because it -- it meets -- it meets our requirements,
but at the same time I feel the same way, it's like -- it's just one too many. It's just too
dense for that particular site and the layout. It -- it -- it would be -- it would be nice, but it
was just like -- you just need a little more wiggle room, so -- but -- but it's hard, because,
you know, going through those things -- and, you know, I -- I double checked under
wastewater and water -- water quality concerns, there is none Public Works identified.
You know, overflow parking, she does technically meet -- meet it. Changing out the --
the siding -- and to me the front porch it was -- it was the road that encroached not the
house on the -- on the road type of thing. Emergency services can gain access. It is
tight. You do have to -- have some forethought of responding to an emergency
beforehand. But that's what they are trained to do. But at the same time it's just like
Councilman Borton kind of -- Overton. Not -- not Borton. Sorry. Overton kind of
expressed it, it's just that there is a quandary here. It's just kind of like, yes, it -- it does,
but it doesn't, so -- and that's what makes it difficult and I -- and I would be -- if -- if there
was one less -- one less residence on there, I -- I -- I think -- I -- I could -- I could support
that, so --
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: I think that the challenge is -- we are always trying to find a yes, which is what I
love about our council, try to find something that will work and we -- when it's apparent I
think we do it. In this case, you know, this is part of the existing due diligence and site
conditions on -- on a very limited piece of dirt and I don't think I could sit here and
redesign it for them. I just know that this doesn't work and you are correct, it is not a
comment by Public Works in this application, but Public Works -- at least when I
covered them as a council liaison, had told me on a citywide basis we are trying to
discourage people maintaining their private wells, because it impacts the water quality
of the whole city. It's a citywide issue. It's not specific to this application. It wasn't a
requirement that they made. So, I hope I didn't misrepresent that to you, but I'm -- I'm
not hung up on that. That's -- that's not the main issue that I -- that I had. I think if -- I
think if you came back and you had solved for some of the access concerns with a, you
know, connection somehow to the service drive or if there was another way for an
emergency vehicle to get in and out I think that would be a thing that would help.
Perhaps reducing the density. But I -- I couldn't do that, you know, for the applicant, but
perhaps that would help. It's hard to say without seeing it, you know, but that would
certainly remove -- that has the potential to remove the, you know, alternative
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May 23,2023
Page 18 of 49
compliance around common driveway variance if you were to redo that. Just some
additional feedback.
Overton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Overton.
Overton: And just --just an additional, I know we had feedback from the fire department
and I know that that's what the Commission was concerned about, but I can't help but
go back to over 27 years working in public safety and the scenario that keeps running
through my mind is the one where I have all three agencies and sometimes multiple
from each agency on a situation where I have got not just one fire truck, but possibly
also paramedics and possibly one to two police cars and there is no room for that
response at this project, unless I'm blocking Cherry Lane, which, depending on how
serious an incident is, I may be doing that. But that's my concern.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: First, I love the debate that goes on amongst this body for a one acre parcel.
For our friends that are here in the audience I know it's -- it's standing room only, but I
just love that we take each application as they come with the same level of critique and
criticism no matter the size. But unless there is any other comments I'm happy to make
a motion. Mr. Mayor, after reviewing tonight's application I move that we deny
application No. 2, H-2023-0006, include all staff, applicant, and Council testimony.
Strader: Second.
Simison: Have a motion and a second. Is there discussion? Okay. Clerk will call the
roll.
Roll Call: Hoaglun, yea; Borton, yea; Cavener, yea; Perreault, nay; Strader, yea;
Overton, yea.
Simison: Five ayes, one nay, and the motion to deny carries.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE NAY.
3. Public Hearing for Chimney Peak Subdivision (SHP-2023-0002) by
Centurion Engineers, Inc., located at 4853 N. Chimney Peak Ave.
A. Request: Short Plat to re-subdivide Lot 18, Block 24, Fulfer
Subdivision No. 6 consisting of 1.45 acres of land in the R-8 zoning
district into four (4) building lots and one (1) common lot.
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May 23,2023
Page 19 of 49
Simison: With that we will move on to Item 3 this evening, which is a public hearing for
Chimney Peak Subdivision, SHP-2023-0002. We will open this public hearing with staff
comments.
Allen: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council. The next application before you
is a request for a short plat. This site consists of 1.45 acres of land. It's zoned R-8 and
is located at 4853 North Chimney Peak Avenue. The Comprehensive Plan future land
use map designation is medium density residential, which calls for three to eight
dwelling units per acre. A short plat is proposed to resubdivide Lot 18, Block 24, Fulfer
Subdivision No. 6, consisting of 1.45 acres of land into four building lots and one
common lot in the R-8 zoning district. The proposed density of 2.76 units per acre is
consistent with the density desired of three to eight units per acre in the medium density
residential future land use map designation for this site. There is an existing home and
two accessory structures on the property that are proposed to remain on Lot 1 and
those are shown there on that northern lot. The existing home is connected to city
water and sewer service. The existing driveway via North Chimney Peak Avenue will be
converted to a common driveway and will provide access to all of the proposed lots.
Direct access via West McMillan Road is prohibited. The street buffer adjacent to the
southern boundary of the site along West McMillan Road was constructed with the
subdivision improvements for Fulfer Subdivision. There is existing landscaping, trees
and lawn, along both sides of the existing driveway that complies with the standards for
common driveways. Because the site is below five acres in size, common open space
and site amenities are not required. Staff is recommending approval with the conditions
in the staff report. There are no outstanding issues for Council tonight. Staff will stand
for any questions.
Simison: Thank you, Sonya. Council, any questions for staff? All right. Would the
applicant like to come forward. Good evening.
Canning: Good evening, Mayor and Council. Nice to see you all. I am Anna Canning
with Centurion Engineers and I did want to update the address, since it's wrong on our
application there. It's 2323 South Vista Avenue, Suite 206, Boise, Idaho. 83705. Well,
I'm a little nervous that I come to you with an in-fill project off of a common drive tonight,
but, nonetheless, I am delighted to bring this in-fill subdivision to you for Chimney Peak
Subdivision. I will say that there are four residential lots and one common lot. The
residential lots are -- the largest is around 30,000 square feet and the smallest one is
around 8,000 square feet. So, we are looking at different size lots than the previous
application and the density is 2.76. So, quite a bit different there. As staff made her
wonderful presentation -- and thank you, Sonya, for everything, as well as you all for
tonight, but this seems to be perfectly set up for a short plat. You might have noticed
that the driveway is the right width. It's 30 feet. It allows comfortably for the 20 foot
drive aisle for the fire department and the turnaround is largely constructed already,
they just need to kind of blow out a roundabout and straighten that out a little bit and it's
-- the fire access is there. The reason that it works so seamlessly is because it was
anticipated in the preliminary plat back in 2003. So, there was always contemplated
that there would be additional lots on the south side of that emergency -- or that
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May 23,2023
Page 20 of 49
common drive and, indeed, many years later -- 20 years later here it is, so it was nice to
see that. I -- I remember struggling with these -- the out -- or the existing homes in this
Kelly Creek Subdivision. There was two of them. This was the easier one. The other
one was really difficult. So, it's nice to be here tonight -- tonight presenting this to you.
That's why I said I was delighted to be here. So, with that I won't bother you with a lot of
the details, because Sonya went through them already, but we are in agreement with all
the conditions of approval and with that we respectfully ask for approval and I would be
happy to answer any questions you may have.
Simison: Thank you. Council, any questions for the applicant? Okay. Thank you very
much.
Canning: Thank you.
Simison: Is there anybody here that would like to provide testimony on this item or is
there anybody online that would like to provide testimony on this item? If so, use the
raise your hand feature. Seeing no one coming forward or no one raising their hand,
would the applicant like any final comments? Applicant has waived final comments.
So, Council, what's your desire?
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Don't have any comments -- I'm not seeing anybody standing up, so I move
we close the public hearing on Item No. 3.
Hoaglun: Second the motion.
Simison: Motion and second to close the public hearing. Is there any discussion? If
not, all in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay? The ayes have it and the public
hearing is closed.
MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Fairly straightforward request short plat. So, after considering all staff and --
staff and applicant testimony, I moved to approve File No. SHP-2023-0002 as presented
in the staff report for the hearing date of May 23rd, 2023.
Hoaglun: Second the motion.
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May 23,2023
Page 21 of 49
Simison: Have a motion and a second to approve Item 3. Is there any discussion? If
not, Clerk will call the roll.
Roll Call: Hoaglun, yea; Borton, yea; Cavener, yea; Perreault, yea; Strader, yea;
Overton, yea.
Simison: All ayes. Motion carries and the item is agreed to.
MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES.
4. Public Hearing for Promenade Cottages Subdivision (H-2022-0013)
by Steve Arnold, A-Team Consultants, located at 403 E. Fairview Ave.
A. Request: Rezone approximately 6.819 and 0.326 acres of land
from the R-8 and C-G zoning districts to the R-40 (6.61 acres) and
C-G (0.535 acres) zoning districts.
B. Request: Preliminary Plat consisting of 30 single-family residential
lots, 5 multi-family lots, 2 commercial lots and 8 common lots on
7.64 acres of land in the requested R-40 and C-G zoning districts.
C. Request: Conditional Use Permit to construct a 90-unit, multi-family
development on approximately 2.8 acres in the requested R-40
zoning district.
D. Request: Conditional Use Permit to construct single-family,
detached dwellings on the 10 of the 30 single-family residential lots
in the requested R-40 zoning district.
E. Request: Conditional Use Permit to allow the existing, non-
conforming parking, landscaping and mobile home park to remain
as is for an extended period of time in the C-G and requested R-40
zoning districts.
Simison: Next item up is Item 4, which is a public hearing for Promenade Cottage
Subdivision, H-2022-0013. We will open this public hearing with staff comments from
Mr. Parsons. It looks like it's Ms. Allen again.
Allen: Allen. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. The next application before you is a
request for a rezone, a preliminary plat, and three separate conditional use permits.
This site consists of 7.64 acres of land. It's zoned R-8, medium density residential, and
C-G, general retail and service commercial, and it's located at 403 East Fairview
Avenue. This property was annexed into the city in 1969 without a development
agreement. The Comprehensive Plan future land use map designation is commercial,
2.12 acres, approximately, on the end and high density residential, approximately 5.52
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May 23,2023
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acres on the south end. The north portion of this property adjacent to Fairview Avenue
is zoned R-8 and C-C and is developed with two commercial buildings, a multi-tenant
building, with retail and restaurant uses where Idaho Pizza is located, a paint store,
Rodda Paint, and associated parking. The portion of the site directly to the south is a
mobile home park and further to the south is vacant undeveloped land, all zoned R-8.
The applicant proposes to rezone 7.15 acres of land from the R-8 and C-G zoning
districts to the R-40, 6.61 acres, and C-G, .54 acre zoning districts, consistent with the
underlying future land use map designations of high density residential and commercial.
The rezone to C-G will remove the nonconforming status of the retail store in the R-8
zoning district, as such use is a permitted use in the C-G district. The mobile home park
is a prohibited use in the proposed R-40 zoning district. A conditional use permit is
proposed to extend the nonconforming use until such time as the property redevelops in
a minimum of four years. The proposed multi-family residential development is a
conditional use in the R-40 district subject to the specific use standards for such in the
UDC. The proposed single family residential attached dwellings are a principal
permitted use and the single family residential detached dwellings are conditional use in
the proposed R-40 district. A preliminary plat is proposed consisting of 45 building lots,
30 single family residential building lots, five multi-family residential building lots and two
commercial lots and eight common lots on 7.64 acres of land in the R-40 and C-G
zoning districts. A gross density of 20.51 units per acre is proposed overall in the
residential portions of the development. The plat is proposed to develop in three
phases as shown. The single family residential on the south end of the site is proposed
to develop first with 30 single family residential attached and detached dwellings at a
gross density of 16.5 units per acre with the multi-family residential development
second, with a total of 90 apartment units at a gross density of 28 units per acre, for an
overall gross density of 28 units per acre and rebuild the commercial area last, shortly
after the second phase. The -- the -- excuse me. The phasing plan is based on the
type of loan the applicant has on the property. Because the property is income
producing, the loan will not allow the owners to disrupt the income being made off the
existing commercial buildings and the mobile home park. Once the property is not
encumbered by this loan condition the owner will move forward with phase two
providing market conditions warrant it. Phase three will follow shortly thereafter. Due to
the financing and timing the applicant requests an additional period of time of
approximately four to five years, instead of the standard two years, to obtain the city
engineer's signature on the second phase final plat. This will allow ample time to notice
the existing residents of the mobile home park of the plan to redevelop the property.
Staff recommends the second phase final plat application is not allowed to be submitted
for a minimum period of four years from the date of approval of the preliminary plat to
allow residents of the mobile home park ample time to find other housing prior to
redevelopment. This will require at least one time extension to be obtained in order for
the preliminary plat to remain valid. There are three existing access driveways via
Fairview, an arterial street. One for the retail paint store on the west and two for the
multi-tenant building. The western access is proposed to be removed and the eastern
accesses are proposed to remain until redevelopment of that portion of the property
occurs, as removal at this time would negatively affect existing uses. Upon
redevelopment of the commercial portion of the site all accesses via Fairview shall
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May 23,2023
Page 23 of 49
cease and access shall be provided via Northeast 3rd Street, the lesser classification of
the two streets. There are nine existing access driveways via Northeast 3rd Street, a
local street designated on the master street map as a collector street, two for the
commercial, one ingress-egress driveway for the mobile home park and six driveway
accesses for individual homes. The northern access via Northeast 3rd Street is
proposed to be removed as it's too close to the intersection and doesn't conform to
ACHD standards. The second access nearest Fairview is proposed to remain to serve
the existing commercial retail store and a new driveway access is proposed 30 feet to
the south of the aforementioned driveway as depicted on the site plan in alignment with
the driveway on the west side of 3rd. Due to the traffic conflicts that will likely result with
the two driveways so close together, staff is recommending these two accesses are
combined and aligned with the driveway on the west side of 3rd in accord with the UDC,
which limits access points to collector streets. The existing driveway in alignment with
Gruber Avenue on the west side of 3rd is proposed to remain and be reconstructed as a
30 foot wide curb return driveway as -- has been approved by ACHD. The remainder of
the accesses are proposed to be closed. No access exists via Badley Avenue, a local
street along the southern boundary of the undeveloped portion of the site. Two new
driveway accesses are proposed via Badley to the single family residential portion of the
development, which also provides connectivity to the multi-family residential and
commercial portions of the development. Private streets are proposed for internal
access to the proposed single family and multi-family dwellings. With the subdivision
cross-access ingress-egress easement should be granted between the single family
and multi-family and commercial portions of the development via a note on the final plat
or a separate recorded agreement. Alternative compliance to the off-street parking
standards for single family dwellings, which requires parking pads to be located in front
of the garage, to allow the parking pads for the three bedroom units to be located as
close as possible to the corresponding unit was approved by the director. Additional
right of way is required to be dedicated along Fairview, but no improvements are
required with the -- with this development, as Fairview is listed in the CIP to be widened
from five to seven travel lanes with on-street bike lanes between 2036 and 2040. With
development the existing section of Northeast 3rd Street is required to be improved with
an eight foot wide planter strip and a five foot wide detached sidewalk abutting the site
in the unimproved section between Gruber and Badley constructed as a complete
collector street in accord with the master street map and in general conformance with
the city's downtown Meridian street cross-section master plan. Private streets are
proposed for internal access to the proposed single family and multi-family units for
addressing purposes. The pathways master plan depicts a ten foot wide multi-use
pathway off site along the west side of Northeast 3rd Street and along East Fairview
Avenue on this site. Internal pedestrian connections are required between the single
family, multi-family and commercial portions of the development. A 25 foot wide street
buffer is required along Fairview and a 20 foot wide buffer is required along Northeast
3rd Street, landscaped in accord with the UDC standards. Because the single family
portion of the site is below five acres in size at 2.7 acres, the minimum common open
space and site amenity standards do not apply. The southern portion of this project is
within the Meridian floodplain overlay district, Zone AE, and will require a floodplain
development permit. A conditional use permit is proposed to construct a 90 unit multi-
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May 23,2023
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family development on approximately 2.8 acres of land in the requested R-40 Zoning
District. Five three story 18-plex multi-family structures are proposed containing a mix
of one, 45 units, and two-bedroom, 45 units, ranging from 712 to 1,278 square feet in
size. The amount of common open space proposed for the development exceeds the
minimum standards. A minimum of a half acre of common open space is required, .94
acre is proposed, which is almost twice the minimum required. A minimum of four site
amenities are required, one from each category. The applicant proposes a swimming
pool, clubhouse, dog park, community garden, a tot lot and charging stations for electric
vehicles from the quality of life, open space, recreation and multi-modal categories as
required. Off-street parking is proposed in excess of the minimum standards with nine
extra spaces. Nine of the surface parking spaces need to be covered in order to meet
the minimum standards for covered spaces. Conceptual building elevations were
submitted for the -- for the proposed single family structures as shown and for the multi-
family structures as shown. The single family cottages are all proposed to be two
stories in height, with two car garages, while the multi-family apartment buildings are
proposed to be three stories in height. The clubhouse will be a single story in height.
The applicant's narrative states the multi-family buildings will use similar accents as the
cottage units. A conditional use permit is requested for the development of ten single
family residential detached dwellings in the requested R-40 zoning district. Typically
single family residential uses are not a desired use in the R-40 high density residential
zoning district. However, they are allowed as a conditional use. There are existing
single family residential dwellings to the west across Northeast 3rd Street and to the
South across Badley Avenue. The proposed single family residential homes at a higher
density of 16.5 units per acre will assist in providing a transition to the multi-family
residential apartments planned in the second phase of this development and should be
compatible with adjacent uses. For these reasons staff is supportive of the request. A
conditional use permit is requested to allow the existing nonconforming parking,
landscaping and mobile home park to remain as is for an extended period of time until
redevelopment occurs with the second and third phases of the proposed development.
The nonconforming use of a portion of the site as a mobile home park and the parking
and landscaping in the commercial portion of the development will remain as is until the
second and third phases of development respectively, which will be approximately four
to five years. The Commission did recommend approval of these applications with the
conditions in the staff report and I will just go over a summary of the Commission
hearing. Steve Arnold, the applicant's representative, testified in favor. There was no
one testifying in opposition. Kelly Jean Warner did comment on the application. There
was no written testimony received. And the only issue of discussion was the question
from the neighbor regarding how the proposed development would affect adjacent
properties in the area. Key issues a discussion by the Commission are as follows:
Concern pertaining to the extended time period for redevelopment of the mobile home
park and commercial portions of the development and feasibility of the development --
developer's ability to refinance the property after the terms of the existing loan are
satisfied. Concern pertaining to the upkeep of the mobile home park in the interim of
people vacating the mobile homes prior to redevelopment of the site and inclusion of a
requirement for the mobile homes to be removed as they are vacated. Concern
pertaining to the uncertainty of what's involved with the construction of a complete street
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May 23,2023
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section for Northeast 3rd Street between Gruber and Badley, i.e., if additional right of
way is needed from the property to the west, if reimbursement for the cost of
construction of the western portion of the street is possible from ACHD. And, finally,
inclusion of a sunset requirement for the conditional use permit for extension of the
nonconforming uses. Commission changes to the staff recommendation are as follows:
A sunset requirement of four years was included for the conditional use permit for
extension of the nonconforming uses, consistent with the preliminary plat requirement in
the development agreement. The pedestrian pathway along the eastern boundary of
the single family portion of the site shall be removed due to CPTED safety concerns.
That is -- if I can just take a moment and point that out. It's this pathway right here
where my pointer is. Staff is requesting Council allow this pathway as it provides
access to the front of these units, which are accessed from the rear via the private
street which functions as an alley and the applicant is also requesting that that condition
for removal be stricken. And, finally, inclusion of a provision requiring the mobile homes
and associated debris that are vacant at the beginning of phase two to be removed
within 45 calendar days. If there are more than five vacant mobile homes that time
period is extended to 90 calendar days. The only outstanding issue for Council tonight
is -- as I just mentioned, that staff requests Condition A2.21F requiring the removal of the
pedestrian pathway along the east side of the single family portion of the development
is stricken. There has been no written testimony received since the Commission
hearing. The applicant is here to present tonight. That's all staff has. Thank you.
Simison: Thank you, Sonya. Council, questions for staff? Okay. Would the applicant
like to come forward? Good evening.
Arnold: Mr. Mayor, Members of the City Council, for the record it's Steve Arnold. I'm
with A Team Land Consultants. 1785 Whisper Cove, Boise. 83709. 1 -- I think Sonya
has pretty much covered the -- the project in its entirety. So, what I'm going to try to do
is -- is give kind of an overview of a feel of what we are doing. The product that we are
building here has only been built once before and we did it in Boise right next to -- it is
Stones Throw, which was a Meridian project, and it's got -- what we are calling these
units at the south end -- they are basically a cottage unit and they are a mix of attached
townhomes and detached single family units and I will get to the pictures on these, but
they essentially operate as a high density product. The one that we did at Irving and
Mount Hood, it was three acres and we did roughly 60 units on it and 30 were the
attached and 30 were the detached and I will get through some of these pictures here.
Like I said, I think Sonya covered most of these. This is a pretty complicated application
for the size of the project. I mean we are seven acres and we have got a ton of different
applications that we are doing. We are not looking for variances, but because of the
product type that we are doing, the -- the single family cottage unit, because it is single
family, it's required to have the additional two parking stalls in -- in front of the garage
and because these are all alley loaded we specifically prepared a -- a parking exhibit, so
that Council and staff could see that, you know, this -- these parking spaces are
reserved for these units. There is a good number of the units that we don't need
parking in front of, because they are two bed, two bath. It's just the three bed, two bath
that you need parking in front of the garage. So, basically, 15 units is what we are
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May 23,2023
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asking for that is not in front of the garage. One of the things that was requested -- and
I -- I think we can comply with everything that the Commission asked for. The one item
that we do not want to have installed is the sidewalk along the southeast corner and,
again, that was just for the reasons to access the front of the units. The concern that
the Commission had at the time was basically there is -- there is an area there that
there is not a lot of lighting. So, what we would propose is to put some pathway lighting
along that, so that there is lighting and that helps address the concerns. Sonya did
touch bases on the -- the -- the four years and, basically, how we can't touch anything
that affects the income production on this property. Hence, we are asking for the longer
time before we start relocating the -- the trailer homes and doing anything with the
properties up front. We will have CC&Rs and they will basically govern the commercial
portion, the multi-family portion and the -- the cottage portion. Each of them will
maintain certain things, like their parking, their perspective drive aisles. They all will
have access -- or at least the residential portion will all have access to the clubhouse
and the other amenities. In the cottage areas we added several amenities there that
will, again also be open to the multi-family. The -- the one thing that came up at the
Commission hearing last time -- and it's -- it's still a question, but I think it's something
that we can work through and I -- we raised the red flag about 3rd Street, because we
thought that potential additional right of way would be required. In working with staff I
think we can move the majority of the roadway onto our property, so that we can get it
entirely built and it's -- we will take the burden from Badley to Gruber and, then, from
Gruber north to Fairview Avenue. The highway district and staff is just looking for a half
plus 12 and, then, modifying some of the buffers and stuff adjacent to us. We do have
the Rodda Paint building that sits very close to the current right of way, so we have that
existing building that we have got to work with and, then, we have got the pizza multi-
tenant place that we have currently got to work with the existing configuration with the
loop driveway to the far east and, then, the center driveway, but in the short term there
are a couple nonconforming driveways that we can clean up there. This site has been a
challenge for a long time and I'm hoping we can get to something that definitely looks a
lot nicer. Just to go on record, we have read through all of the city conditions, the
agency comments. We just got ACHD's report today, I believe, and we have gone
through all those and we can comply with those. I won't go through the -- the plat too
much, other than to just kind of give you an idea the -- the southern portion, again,
although it looks like they are private roads, they actually function as an alley load. So,
the -- the whole south portion of the -- the project is basically an alley load and, then,
the green spaces in between are what are MEWs or paseos kind of a -- a common
walking area that you can enter to the front of the home. This kind of shows the -- the
site circulation and our -- it's our site plan that was submitted. I broke this slide out
because I -- we -- we paid quite a bit of attention to parking on this. So, to give you an
idea, we have -- on the multi-family we -- there are required to be 158 stalls and, then,
nine guest parking. We are at 161 with 15 guest spaces. The cottages were basically
right at what is all required. So, the cottage is at three two. That's basically saying it's a
three bed, two bath, and it requires the 30 garages and, then, 30 parking spaces in front
of the garage. The cottages that are two bed, two bath, only require just the parking.
So, just the garages. But to give you an idea on the cottage guest area that we have
shown around that, we have shown 20 additional parking stalls for those cottage units
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May 23,2023
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and I'm sure some of the multi-family will be grabbing them, too, but we have quite a bit
of additional parking and just go down to the commercial there is only -- between the
two buildings, who are only required to do 33, we have got a total of 90. So, we are --
we are well parked on this site. This gives you just kind of an idea the -- the layout and
the open space and, again, here at the southeast corner, which would be the far left
lower end, we would request that we could keep the proposed sidewalk and just have
lighting and, then, you could see the dog -- the center park here was planned out and
the cottage units and that was mainly just to create a central focal area that had multi-
uses and multi-amenities and you can see what we are doing here in the center in the
multi-family. But, again, these will all happen in phases. The very first phase that we
were going to do is the cottages at the south side. Before we could build there we have
got a flood zone that we got to clean up, so there is quite a bit of cleaning on this piece,
but we still see it as very feasible and ultimately we will probably get rid of a big
headache for the police out there. This -- I put this slide together to give you an idea --
3rd Street is -- as you can see doesn't connect. The -- I forget that east-west road. 3rd
Street doesn't connect Badley to the Gruber. Gruber -- there is no right of way that
exists there. And, then, eventually we will be extending Gruber as a private road to
access the multi-family to the north. But it -- it -- 3rd Street could be a challenge, but I
think it's -- it's -- with the help of staff and ACHD I think we can get through it. This gives
you an idea. This is looking at Gruber Street due south of Gruber. Give you an idea of
-- there may be a few trees that we are removing that could be a little bit of a challenge.
This is getting into the cottage product and I will try to explain a little bit as we go
through these, but this is a -- a corner home and as you can see on the -- the -- the face
of the home faces the street and, then, in the back as you can see right behind the --
the building is the alley that essentially we are going to be doing on this product type
and there, again, this gives you an idea of what the face of the buildings are and how
they work with the roads. If you are looking far to the right-hand side of this that would
be the public street. Here is the single family portion. They blend in very well with the
duplexes. Here again this is the typical MEW that we do on a high density product and
this being 11 units per acre it's fairly low. So, this one that we did over in Boise at 20
units an acre, the MEW and the paseos are much narrower. Here again is the alley
looking from behind. This gives you an idea -- this -- we are going to be doing similar
fencing like this in our open areas. Here is a sketch of the multi-family, because that's
so far out I know we will be back in front of the -- the city with a design review of some
sort for this and then, the -- the two discussion items -- the -- the one thing that we
would like is -- and this isn't so much with the city, but if we can get backing from the city
that would be great. Typically an agency, like ACHD, requires you to do half plus 12 of a
road that you abut. In this particular case ACHD and the city is asking for the full street
section of -- of 3rd Street between Badley and Gruber and in this situation it probably
does make good sense to build the road at one particular time, because the likelihood of
things redeveloping on the west side are very unlikely, but we -- we would like to
entertain discussions about reimbursements of that and this property is in what's called
an opportunity zone and it's also in the Meridian downtown development zone that I
believe there is a process and funding mechanisms to do that. We -- we do ask for help
on this. I -- I -- I do see this road as a challenge and with the city and ACHD's help I
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May 23,2023
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think it can be done. And with that I will stand for any questions and I appreciate the
opportunity to present in front of you tonight.
Simison: Thank you. Council, any questions for the applicant?
Overton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Overton.
Overton: Two questions. Steve, the -- the nature of CPTED and why the Commission
probably wanted to get rid of that pathway on that east side had to do with the lack of
lighting.
Arnold: Correct.
Overton: The mitigation of that CPTED concern is putting in some type of bollard or
pathway lighting. I hear you correctly that you would be willing to put that in.
Arnold: We could do both.
Overton: Okay. Okay. Thank you. Second question. The decision to wait four years
on the trailer park is hinged to the loan; correct?
Arnold: Yes. Mayor, Councilman Overton, that's correct. And it's also -- we are going
to need some time to help relocate a bunch of people that are probably going to have a
challenge.
Overton: Well, that's my second part of that one. With that being said, four years, I got
to say that gives people plenty of time to find a new place to call home. I don't know
how many of those have been living there for a long time and had a lot of time in that
trailer park over a career. My other question is during those four years are -- who is
going to be in charge of maintaining that as we get closer to that four year mark to make
sure up until the point of it redeveloping it doesn't just fall to pieces?
Arnold: Mayor, Councilman Overton, the same group of people that's maintaining it
now. I mean they -- they have got a maintenance group that comes in and -- and takes
care of it, but the intent is we are -- not to let it go to pot in the time. The intent is to,
one, I mean I shouldn't -- we shouldn't underscore the value of the loan, because that
we can't do anything about. It's like -- as much as I would like to sound like a great
neighbor, you know, the -- the four years is mainly based on the fact that we can't
change the loan, not that we are -- that these people need four years to get out. I mean
they could theoretically get out in, you know, six to nine months. But, yeah, during the --
the time frame between now and when we were redeveloped with the multi-family we
will be maintaining that and we can add language in our CC&Rs if there's something
specific that the Council would like to see in that.
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Overton: Thank you.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Arnold. I have some concerns. So, to me this
opens the door to eliminating some of the very few amount of affordable housing we
have in the city. I don't know where these folks would go. I mean -- so, I -- I have a real
concern around that. How many people are in the existing mobile home park? That's
my first question. And, then, I would like to know -- are you trying to address, you know,
a need at a certain price point with your new product that you are bringing online? Do
you want to talk about that a little bit? But just thinking about -- you know, we have a
mobile home park and now we are going to be getting multi-family with charging
stations and a dog park and it's going to be beautiful. But that sounds like Class A, you
know, product to me. So, I just -- I want to kind of understand -- without getting into
rents or anything, but what kind of part of the market are you addressing through your
development? What's the maturity of your loan, if you can disclose that, because it sort
of speaks to the timing as well. Those are kind of my three initial questions.
Arnold: Okay. Mayor Simison, Council Woman Strader, the -- so, we -- we started out
-- and Bill and I have been talking about this project for probably six years. So, the --
the -- it used to be six years that the loan was fully matured on that -- or they -- I
shouldn't say that. It was six years until they could refinance that loan and I'm -- so
that's not -- I'm not privy to their financial situation. The other question you had was -- if
I interpret this correct -- was it were we providing affordable housing. There has not
been any discussion on that, but the one thing that it is doing that -- and I have got kids
renting right now -- is we are bringing more rental stuff onto the market. The multi-
family. And that will help overall drive rent down. The -- so, that's the affordability part.
The number of people that are living in there I don't have a head count, but there -- I do
know for a fact that there are programs that take anywhere between six months to a
year and a half for people to apply to get assisted housing and I know there is current
programs for that, but I'm -- I -- I can't say this is going to be affordable. Anything like
what it's at right now, I mean some of these things shouldn't be lived in.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Yeah. It -- it's a really sensitive topic; right? And so just to reflect back to you
a little bit. So, it sounds like you are saying there is an issue with substandard housing
at this mobile home park. I don't know if that's true or not; right? I mean we -- we do
have, you know, standards in the city. But, you know, just because housing is different
than maybe what our price point might be or what we might prefer, that doesn't mean
that that isn't acceptable housing for someone else. So, I would need to understand a
little bit more about the conditions at the site to agree or disagree with that. But I am
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May 23,2023
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concerned, because you -- you know, from -- I actually have a friend who moved to a
mobile home park like far outside of town, like over near Mountain Home and they were
on a wait list for almost a year to get into that particular area from just -- as just an
anecdotal conversation I had with somebody that I know. But from what I understand
there is not any vacancy in the Treasure Valley for a mobile home and so four years
seems like a long time, but I'm concerned that maybe the financing market will change
or, you know, maybe the cottages component will be built quickly or, you know, maybe
something will change and, then, that time frame to allow these folks to find new
housing will be changed and they won't have a lot of time and, then, I think it sounds like
they would need to go on public assistance is what you are saying. We don't know that.
But, you know, that seems like a really problematic fact pattern. So, yeah, I'm just going
to -- I'm -- I'm just struggling with the human element of this one. I don't think there is
going to be a great answer for it, but -- and this is a big -- a big problem we are having --
we think supply and demand is what's driving rents and that may not be true. Like if we
are just building Class A and everyone's coming from other states where they have, you
know, a different cost of living and, then, they come here and the people that are
moving in taking Class A apartments are displacing existing residents and -- so, that --
that's a concern I have. I -- but I don't know what the answer is. I mean, you know, you
own this property, you have a right to develop it, but there is a real big elephant in the
room of what will happen to the people that live here.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor? Steve, I didn't want -- I didn't want to step on your toes if you
want a response. Sorry.
Arnold: No. Go ahead.
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Steve, a couple -- couple comments. One, I really like
the cottage product. I think that's a nice fit for downtown Meridian. I have got a lot of --
a lot of love for the old Idaho Pizza Company -- the Idaho Pizza Company building.
That was my -- let us -- make us all feel a little better -- that was my daycare when I was
in kindergarten. It was like Greenleaf Academy. So, they had a great sandbox. So, I
love that piece of property. A -- a couple things -- and -- and some of it is -- to Council
Member Strader's questions about the -- the trailer park and it's not lost on me that
many of those units are in disrepair and there is some -- some significant blight, but it's
also not lost to me that that is housing for people. So, Council Member Strader I think
asked around it and I -- I want to give you another chance maybe to respond, because I
know -- I think that the -- the plan for the apartments is upscale premium I think is the
terms that you use in your narrative. So, again, certainly not a place that these current
residents are going to live. So, they will be displaced. And so I think it's important for
this Council to have a good understanding as to what you or your business partner,
employer, what their plan is to support those people. What is the plan you have got --
you -- you outlined four years because of the loan, although I think you do also indicate
in your narrative that even after four years you may not move forth depending on -- on
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May 23,2023
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the market. So, help the Council understand what is your plan for these people to move
them out of their existing home?
Arnold: Mayor Simison, Commissioner -- or Councilman Cavener, the specifics of the
plan really has not come up yet. I mean we are --
Cavener: Okay.
Arnold: -- that's something that's down the road, but it is something that we have
thought about. I mean we have -- I have actually personally met with some of the -- the
-- I guess they are not land owners. The -- the residents that live in there and I have
learned more than I knew about mobile homes and apparently the mobile home industry
-- there is a lot of places -- and I'm probably speaking out of turn -- that won't let you
bring in a mobile home that is over a certain age --
Cavener: Yeah.
Arnold: -- and, you know, that's news to me. So, some of these homes that are there
they can't be -- I mean they can't physically be moved --
Cavener: Sure.
Arnold: -- off site.
Cavener: So that -- go ahead, Steve.
Arnold: So, there is going to be some logistics there, you know, but you got to plan on
how that's going to be taken care of. No. And, then, one of the -- the portion of that
plan may be to look into the multi-family and affordable housing there. But that's not
been looked into at all right now.
Cavener: So -- Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Steve, I appreciate your -- your candidness on that. For me as a Council
Member -- I think these are technically county residents, but these are people and so I --
I just want to be upfront with you, I like a lot of this project. I'm not going to support it
tonight until you have got a plan about how we are going to handle those people,
because that may be finding affordable housing or essentially becoming homelessness
is a conversation nonstarter for me this evening. So, it sounds like you have thought
about it. Again, you haven't heard from the rest of the Council, but I think that's an
important piece that you are going to probably -- that's a big, big piece of the puzzle that
I think that you have an obligation to address, because you are going to displace these
people and you have got plenty of time to do it. So, bring us a plan that makes me feel
comfortable that we are going to take care of these people.
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Arnold: Mayor Simison, Councilman Cavener, I do -- I believe my client is online tonight
and they own several mobile homes. So, I -- I'm hoping that he raises his hands online
and -- and can give you examples of what they have done in the past. Because I -- we
have not -- he and I have not talked about that.
Cavener: Sure. Mr. Mayor, I -- I invite that. I just think it's important. Ideas are
fantastic, conceptual in nature. Until I see something that is either part of a
development agreement or something that is tied to your -- to your rezone request, I -- I
just -- I can't in good conscience be supportive of anything until that particular piece is
answered, as much as I really really like what you are trying to do in downtown.
Arnold: I appreciate that.
Simison: And just to clarify, just -- I -- I want to make sure I heard or didn't hear correct.
These -- I think you said these are county -- I think this was annexed into the city and
these are city residents.
Arnold: Yeah.
Simison: Just so that was clear for yourself before moving forward, so --
Parsons: Mayor, if -- if I may just add some -- some commentary on this, because
certainly the six years that Steve and I have been talking about this this has been part of
our conversation, because same thing as a planner, that's something that we certainly
don't strive to do is displace people. I can tell you that I have fielded many questions
from the residents out here as well and assured them that they were not going to be
kicked out of their home within the next three to six months. That was their concern is
that there was adequate time for them to find a new location to move to. So, at least
wanted to tell you that's the case. I mean they were concerned -- at P&Z they showed
up. Those concerns were brought up at P&Z, as Sonya alluded to you tonight. But
certainly to your point, Councilman Cavener, if it is your desire to have that plan, you
have the ability to require the applicant to come forward -- don't let them move forward
with phase two of the development unless they have that plan. Like it's an option. And
let them get going on phase one and develop some of the undeveloped portion of the
site and, then, with phase two part of them moving forward with any development on
that site you want a secure plan on how that is to occur -- how that is going to occur,
because I think it is a very important component of the complexity of this project,
because there are so many different moving pieces. But just a couple of thoughts that I
had and just share that commentary with you as well. Thank you.
Simison: And the -- Mark did raise his hand and so he is available for comment. Would
the Council like to hear at this point in time from him? Okay. So, Mark, you are --
Kelly: Yeah. Mark Kelly with the -- the owner -- one of the owners of the project. We --
we have a few ideas of how to mitigate it. We have had -- we have the same concern
as the City Council Members have as far as displacing people and just to -- just to
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May 23,2023
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reiterate, though, the -- the multi-family is not a -- I would not consider it a Class A.
They are smaller one and two-bedroom units, so they will be more on the affordable
side. They won't be nothing -- no discussions of deed restrictions or anything to this
point, but we are actually building a mobile home park in Ontario, Oregon, which we are
anticipating having completed this summer. It's a mobile home park -- a number of the
-- the units out there at Elm Grove are -- are RVs, as well as the older mobile homes
that Steve referenced. In some cases you can upgrade those older mobile homes and
comply with the current codes. It just depends on how the -- the electrical and the
various systems need updating. But we would be open to, you know, paying to move
the existing homes that would be applicable that could be moved to -- to the park we are
building there in Oregon. It is a bit of a logistics with our loan and, then, with moving
people just from the standpoint -- you know, obviously, our lender doesn't want to see
our cash flow evaporate on this site, so it -- it's a bit of a challenge, but we -- we would
certainly be open to looking at a plan to move people and provide a certain amount of --
of funding. I don't believe the city has any criteria that is required for any of that that I'm
aware of and in past discussions it wasn't mandated that the city had a particular
program, but we are certainly open to all different ideas. I think we have a good
solution. The park we are building is 50 spaces of mobile homes. We have about 20
homes that we are putting on there now that we are intending to rent and they are at
affordable prices. So, we could offer people to move into those or we could offer to
move their homes as well if -- if they can be brought up to the standards that allow them
to be moved into Oregon.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Mark, that's helpful. I'm not quite sure I'm necessarily in agreement of those
suggestions, but I -- I do appreciate that it sounds like that you have put some -- some
thought into that. Again, I -- I want to be up front with you. I like a lot of this project. I
struggle a little bit with the multi-family piece in its location in downtown and Fairview,
but I think I can get -- get -- get around that. I guess -- and, again, I recognize I have
spoken a lot about this tonight. I'm still not in a spot that I will be supportive of this
application. I would encourage you to take feedback from the Council. We may make a
decision tonight, but I guess I -- I would not be comfortable without you bringing
something that is proposed to be tied to your application that provided option A, B and C
to the residents that you are planning the phasing of that. So, just -- just food for
thought from one Council Member this evening.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Kelly: Yes. Sorry. Sorry, Council Member Overton. I -- I got disconnected there.
Simison: Councilman Cavener, do you want to repeat?
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Cavener: Sure. Thanks, Mr. Mayor. Mark, I just was just sharing that I appreciate you
-- it was kind of laying out some conceptual ideas. I think it's important -- and, again, I --
I don't want to get above my skis and encourage you requesting continuance, because,
again, that may be premature and -- and Council may have additional questions, but I --
I think it's important that you bring a plan to the Council that -- that lays out what your
formalized intentions would be, at least before I would be supportive of looking at any
type of rezone request.
Kelly: Okay. I thought -- I -- I -- I think Bill has a good solution. We -- we all have been
working on this project for several years, so I -- I like the idea of the phasing just to -- to
put our perspective on the table. We are -- we are getting a little worn out on this
project, to be honest with you, and it is in an opportunity zone and it's -- it's begging for
some redevelopment there. Especially with the vacant land in the back, I think Bill has
come up with a good solution as far as allowing that to move forward and letting us all
come up with an agreeable solution to the relocation of the people that are living there.
Simison: Council, any additional questions for the applicant?
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Not a series of questions or maybe some comments, too. So, I appreciate
your testimony and just being forthright about the situation. I did not realize that -- that
it's possible that some of these homes cannot be moved, because they don't meet
some standards that are out there. So, that -- that's important information. That -- that
makes it worse than I realized and so, you know, this is an opportunity zone, so, you
know, theoretically U.S. taxpayers are subsidizing these projects and, then, in addition it
could displace Meridian residents, which would cause them to seek public assistance.
So, it just feels like -- like layers of just -- like some ethical issues that I'm having. So, I
share Councilman Cavener's perspective. I think what would be important -- because I
view the rezone as kind of the leverage that we have in this situation and so I'm
concerned that if we grant the rezone now, just contingent on having a plan and we
don't see sufficient detail in that plan at that point, you know, we have already given you
the ability to -- to move forward with some sort of a plan and I think having a plan that's
adequate is going to be really important here. I love the ideas of Mr. Kelly about, you
know, giving the residents a potential alternative in Ontario. Ontario is pretty far, you
know, so that -- but that at least would be an alternative. So, I would encourage you to
explore that. And, again, this is just a couple of Council Members. I don't know how the
others will end up feeling about it, but if you do go down the road of coming up with a
plan, you know, maybe another alternative would be -- and having been a lender myself
for many years and understanding how that would work -- is you could certainly build
the cottages. You could present your plan to us. If we agreed that would be great. You
could go ahead and build your phase one and, then, you will hopefully have sufficient
cash flow from that that at that point you could start, you know, implementing a plan to
move the residents from the mobile home park. But I think another alternative you
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could consider would be, you know, subsidizing some different rent point for them at the
site on the multi-family portion as well, so that could be another alternative that would
be within your control. But certainly it would impact your cash flow. This is a tough one.
I -- I -- I personally need to see a plan, too. I -- I think there is a high likelihood that
without a plan the folks that are at the mobile home park could be added to the
homeless population here and that, you know, all of the Meridian and Treasure Valley
ends up subsidizing that at the end of the day. So, that -- that's where I'm at as well.
Simison: Council, additional questions for the applicant?
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: I agree with my -- my fellow Council with a couple of different thoughts. I
actually have worked with displaced -- with individuals in this kind of situation in my
vocation, displacing mobile home parks for development. I'm intimately aware with
moving mobile homes. Been there. It's tough. But I agree that -- that it would be
wonderful for us to be able to help the individuals that live in there and -- however, I
realize that we can't condition that on you in the sense of requiring the specific ways
that you go about it. So, definitely interested in hearing -- hearing your solutions on
that. My question, to take it just a little bit different direction, on -- on sort of a -- a
technicality was -- as you would be building phase one, with that little road network
there, how -- where would construction vehicles come in and how would that -- is that
going to interrupt or disrupt the residences in that area?
Arnold: Mayor Simison, Commissioner -- or Council Woman Perreault, most likely they
would be coming down 3rd Street from Fairview Avenue.
Simison: Steve, can you get on one of the mics?
Arnold: Yeah. Most likely they would be coming Fairview down 3rd to the site and,
then, just work their way either in the right of way 3rd Street or just jump on site right
away.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: So, I don't have the map in front of me, but if I remember correctly 3rd ends
about where the bare ground part -- part of your development starts, so they would just
move on to the dirt, then, at that point straight south of where 3rd ends and do a staging
area there?
Arnold: My guess is, yeah, if we didn't build 3rd first is they would put their staging area
off of 3rd, just south of the mobile homes.
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Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: Since it sounds like this won't be our last meeting, would you mind asking
your client to, please, clarify how that will work if there is an intent to use only 3rd or if
they had planned on coming up from the south and how that might affect the -- the
residents? I think that's important given the size of vehicles that they will be driving and
those -- those streets are narrow and short and we don't want construction vehicles
really parking on any of those. So, I would like to hear more about that when you come
back and -- and, then, the other question I have is related to the alley loads. So, I'm not
a huge fan of alleys loads in general, because we find so many issues with parking and
trash cans and -- and, you know, HVAC vehicles and just so many problems with alley
loads from a --just practically and the concern I have with yours specifically is that there
-- I just didn't see any area where a -- a furniture truck can come deliver furniture where,
you know, any kind of -- of commercial vehicle can come in and -- and do what they
need to do. They can't access it from the front and, then, the other comment I have on
that is -- I find it a little bit odd that the front of these units -- yes, they will have a
pathway on either side, but one is facing to the east, it's facing like, what, an apartment
building? And, then, to the west it will be facing a street and so it just seems to me like
the orientation of these -- it really isn't neighborhood feel. It's not a community feel.
And I'm just kind of struggling with the fronts of the units facing west and east and not
kind of turning in all toward one another. The -- the middle area is great the way it's set
up with the grass and, then, you know, the -- the front of the units are facing toward one
another and there is green space, but on the outsides it seems really disjointed.
Arnold: Yeah. If I can follow up on that. On the outsides that's -- that's the way they
are -- they are supposed to be. They are supposed to be kind of facing the street.
That's the feel of this product type and that's why there is the alley that's behind them.
But in regards to the commercial vehicles it's no different than a commercial vehicle in
an apartment complex. We don't have really any dead end drive aisles, so a
commercial vehicle can come in and -- and park and unload and load. So, it -- it's really
no different than any other multi-family project.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: We are starting to see and request, but can't require sort of loading and
unloading types of spaces for those -- for those vehicles that are coming through and I
would like to see an option for that in this and, then, to clarify, I am understanding
correctly that the garages on the -- the -- the east and west sides of these units are
going to face the pavement; correct? And the front of the house will face the walkway --
Arnold: Correct.
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Perreault: -- is that right? So, the front of those homes to the east are going to face the
side of a building and to the west they are going to face a street?
Arnold: That's correct. To the east they are facing the -- the MEW or the paseo and,
then, to the west they are facing 3rd Street.
Perreault: Okay. Yeah. I just -- that design seems really disjointed to me in -- in
relation to what's happening in the center area for those residents. It doesn't -- it --
doesn't really doesn't give it much of a community feel in my opinion. That's just a --
that's just a -- an observation based on what we see that comes through and the
requests that we get from -- from the community on kind of how they want to live. When
I look at the -- at the open space rendering I just see pavement -- just tons of pavement
and mostly that's in the commercial area. I'm very familiar with that commercial area,
but I -- I just -- this looks like a lot of blacktop.
Kelly: Hey, Steve, do you mind if I respond to that?
Arnold: Sure.
Kelly: You know, this is an urban project with front door stoops and oriented to the front
yards, trying to get people out on the front porches and on their front yards and
interacting in the community. I agree with the commercial area, that's a lot of pavement,
but in the cottages I -- I strongly urge you to go look at the project on Mount Hood and --
what's the cross street -- Irving and Mount Hood and that's done at 20 to the acre. This
is half the density. We learned some things over there as far as your concerns with
trash and parking and we are parked here twice the amount. We have a wider alley
with five -- additional five feet on either side. We started this project at that same
density, you know, where we had about 40 units or 50 units on this site and now we are
down to 30 and we have the ability to leave the -- leave the garbage in the alleys and
the garbage trucks can drive through. This is a really incredible product. I think you
should try to walk it over there and get a better feel for it, because you don't have a sea
of cars on a parking area with this product like you do with all the four-plexes and all the
multi-family stuff. The -- the cottages is a great community feel with a lot of open space
and green areas and it provides people that can't afford a larger home to live in a house
that's like a larger house with glazing on two or three sides of each room and a lot of
really great aspects to it. So, I encourage all the Council Members to go over there and
look at that project and see it. We get nothing but compliments. Builder Magazine is
about to write an article about that project over there for all of its great characteristics
and I just encourage you to -- to go over there and see it and -- and try to understand
that what we are doing in the City of Meridian is half that density and we have been
working on this thing for a long time with -- with staff and, to be honest with you, we are
getting worn out. We have got other projects that we need to focus on and I hope you
will consider Bill Parson's suggestions as far as the phasing and dealing with the -- the
mobile home park and the other issues, so that we can get moving with this project.
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Simison: Council, any further -- I think we have at least one person who is here to
testify. Are there additional questions you would like to ask the applicant at this time or
can we at least hear from the public? Okay. Thank you.
Johnson: Mr. Mayor, Lucy Leavell. I apologize if I mispronounced that.
Simison: Appreciate you being here this evening and when you get up to the mic if you
can state your name and address for the record.
Leavell: My name is Lucy Leavell. My home is just outside of the Meridian city limits at
2720 South Aerial Lane. However, I am the primary owner of the complex that is on the
east side of this project, the Creekside Harbor Complex, which is on the east side of this
and I do have concerns and my concerns are almost conflicting in a way, because I am
very concerned and have been for years about the conditions in the trailer park and also
the conditions of the trailers. I would submit to you that we have people already who
are in substandard housing and I -- that concerns me. It also concerns me about the
looks of the place. I don't know if you have driven through it or even driven down
Badley, but it looks not like we want Meridian to look. It's not -- I won't say it's not kept
up. I don't know what the -- how they keep it up, but there are all kinds of vehicles, both
working and nonworking and various trailers and we have had to complain when they
were stacking lumber next to our fence and making it pretty bad and that was the -- the
tenants of the trailer park. That was not the owners doing that. I'm sure -- I talked to
Mark several years ago about buying the first -- what is going to be their first phase. I
personally could not see putting two-story buildings where I would have windows
overlooking that portion of the trailer park. I'm sure that part of the trailer park is in
better condition than some -- some other parts, but I couldn't -- I wouldn't ask tenants to
rent an apartment that looked down on that and so that's a concern for me. It's also a
concern I have for the people that are doing this project. I don't think that -- I just don't
know if it's feasible to build just the phase one of their apartments, because there is a lot
of infrastructure work that has to be done with that particular portion. I'm not sure if it's
almost unfair to them to require that that's the only part they can build until they get this
loan extended. I'm also unclear as to whether -- if they can't change the use of the
trailer park, if they need that income for the four years of this -- the loan, I'm concerned
that we are overlapping our four years. They need the income, they need people to
stay there for those four years and, then, we are talking about giving people the four
years to move out. That seems a conflict to me and I'm concerned about that. I have --
I have great respect for Mr. Arnold and for the owners of this property and I think they
will do a very good job, but I'm very concerned about the conditions in the trailer park,
both for the people that live there and the people that have to look at it. I thank you for
your time.
Simison: Thank you. Council, any questions? Thank you. Mr. Clerk, do we have
anybody else signed up? I do still have one other person online.
Johnson: We did not, Mr. Mayor.
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Simison: Okay. That may be somebody for our next application, but if you are online
and want to provide testimony, please, use the raise your hand feature. Seeing no one,
would the applicant like to come forward for any additional comments -- additional final
comments, however you want to see them.
Arnold: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, again, Steve Arnold. You know, just
looking at these pictures you can see that there is something there that needs to be
cleaned up and the intent is -- and that's with this project was to do exactly that. The
feasibility of development and whether it makes sense to do what they are doing
financially, I leave that up to my clients and these guys have done several projects with,
so I'm not worried about the feasibility. I think they have got their numbers figured out. I
think the biggest thing that I hear tonight moving this forward is having a plan to help
relocate our -- our neighbors that are living there so a lot of -- several Council Members
can feel secure about making a decision on doing a rezone and that -- nothing wrong
from the Council or the Mayor up until now. It's -- I know Mark expressed -- we have
been working on it a long time. But we finally got it here, so that -- that's a good thing.
But, yeah, we have been working on this a long time and anything that the Mayor and
Council can do to help speed things along would be greatly appreciated. I do like Mr.
Parsons' idea about the -- having a development agreement in place before phase two.
Maybe we have a development agreement that includes the discussion for the
relocation before we even sign something. I'm not getting warm and fuzzies from that,
but I'm trying. But, yeah, anything that we can keep doing, even if it's to move us to the
next agenda that -- and put us first, of course. But I will stand for any additional
questions. I think I answered --
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: Thank you. I would be hesitant to ask you as an applicant to contribute or
commit a certain amount of dollars to these residents individually. I -- I don't -- I don't
feel like it's our -- that -- that we should ask that specific of -- of detail from you, but I'm
curious -- that's just my opinion. I can't speak for fellow -- for my fellow Council. I do
want to see -- so -- so, when we are asking you about -- about potentially helping folks
relocate, we all might have different ideas about what that looks like and I don't think we
can really truly condition that in -- in the sense of telling you how to go about that. The
most important concern for me is that you be having conversations with these folks and
it's a very, very big deal to talk to -- how many -- how many tenants are in there?
Arnold: That question was asked before. I'm not a hundred percent sure.
Perreault: Okay.
Kelly: There is approximately 40 spaces.
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May 23,2023
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Perreault: It would be a big ask to ask you to individually go have conversations with
each tenant about what their needs are, but I noticed that there was not any written
testimony -- and I don't know what the neighborhood meetings were like. Maybe you
can give us some feedback on that. But I would just encourage you to have additional
conversations with the tenants individually. I assume Mr. Kelly owns this land and it's
being managed. Did I understand that to be the case?
Arnold: That's correct.
Perreault: Okay. I think starting from there there may be solutions that you can help
present to them that -- that are potentially even easier than we anticipate. So, I don't
want to sit here and have us kind of, you know, throw out ideas. I -- I would be much
more inclined to encourage you to just have conversations. I assume you probably
already have had some and -- and just find out what -- what it is they would expect to
have happen. Hopefully not the sun, moon, and stars. But the reality is is even if you
were to provide them with some funds to move to a different location, they are still going
to have to pay a little more rent in Meridian and there is no way no matter -- I mean we
could build out everything that we have in the pipeline and we are still not going to come
even close to the number of units we would need to start driving rental prices down. It's
just not there. It's going to -- we are -- we are years out from that. So, the only thing to
do is stop demand -- or slow demand; right? And we have no control over that
whatsoever. So, my encouragement to you and what I would like to see happen when
you come back before us is to see that you have had conversations with the folks that
live there, get actual information about what it is they feel they need and, then, do your
best to guide them in that and that's all I would expect me individually as a Council
Member from you in that regard. But I can't speak for everyone else. But that's
something that I will be watching for.
Arnold: Council Woman Perreault, I think that would be great and I would like to hear
from the rest of the Council as to what they are looking for as well. I -- I know there is
no specifics that you want to ask as a requirement, but at least give us guidance of what
the main concerns are. I will tell you, though, we did have two neighborhood meetings
-- three and these guys were notified. There was -- no one showed up. So, it may be a
challenge. Maybe we go out there with a board or something.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Thank you. Well, this is challenge. I think -- I -- I feel a little differently in terms
of what -- I -- I think a good plan would involve some type of -- either relocation
assistance or some sort of plan. I -- I think it's very fortunate that the owner is building
this other park. It could be a tremendous option to help. I -- I don't know what form it
needs to take, but it would have to be, you know, something along those lines for me
personally. Another option -- and it's just exploring, but another option could be during
-- if you were to take a continuance -- certainly the city has worked with our partners at
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HUD and, you know, Idaho Housing and et cetera, you know, and maybe there is --
maybe there is something to be explored. We recently built the first affordable -- well, at
least helped contribute to the first affordable housing project in Meridian that will be
built. You know, perhaps there is appetite to explore some sort of a partnership
between you and others to try to maybe set aside a portion of the future product as, you
know, more affordable. Again that would be kind of trailblazing. So, it's sort of hard to
like come up with an idea right now; right? And I understand you are frustrated. Well,
the owner especially is frustrated, because of the amount of time you have been
working on it. But I just sort of feel like Meridian should take care of its own people and
so, you know, if we ever were going to expend resources to try to come up with some
sort of a public and private partnership, this kind of a situation feels like one where we
should look at how much would the city, you know, ultimately be subsidizing
homelessness compared to actually contributing toward housing that's not substandard
as it is now. So, I don't know. This is a big conversation. I just -- I think there could be
more creative options besides just moving people to Ontario. I think that is a -- a viable
option to explore, but it makes me sad that we would be sending people outside of our
community. So, I don't know. So, that's just some feedback, though. I -- I appreciate
you have been working on it for a long time and it's a -- it's a tricky project. I personally
like the cottages. I don't -- I don't have any issue with the product at all. I think it's -- I
think it's beautiful. I -- I think it -- it really reminds me of a starter home, something that
we rarely see. I -- I like the approach to it and I -- so, I don't -- I don't have concerns
around the product itself, I just more have continued concerns around the -- how we can
try to navigate through the mobile park residents. That's my main concern. That's it for
me. I -- I would recommend a continuance personally, because I couldn't get there
tonight and, then, hopefully, city staff could also explore alternatives as well in that time.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Just to add my thoughts on this. It is a difficult one. You have a situation
where you have got vacant land and you can do in-fill. You have substandard housing
and there really is no place for these people to go at the level of income that there is. I
mean that -- there is no place to go. At the same time, if we do not do anything it will
not change. It will continue to be what it is for a very long time and will continue to
probably deteriorate. So, I -- I was intrigued by Bill's solution, you know, because that --
it -- there -- that's a plan of action. Okay. We are going to make something happen.
What it is we don't know yet. But we will get there and we do have the element of time.
It's not saying, oh, in three to six months we are going to do X. You have got four years,
approximately, to figure out what that is. But you have to have a plan in place and begin
that process to make it happen and -- and we know the retail is going to likely be retail,
might be reconfigured in -- down the road in phase three. We can -- you know what's
going to happen in phase one. We are going to have a good idea of phase three.
What's phase two going to be like. Okay. We don't know. And that is what we would
have to work on over that period of time to get to that -- get to that point. I mean are we
ready to approve a trailer park in -- in Meridian for people to park trailers on?
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No, because we don't have any zoning that would -- would allow that I -- I don't think.
It's -- it's -- it's a situation that it remains status quo or it changes completely and -- and
to leave it status quo isn't necessarily what we want to have. So, what do we do?
That's my -- my dilemma that I'm trying to work through. And -- and I think Bill has --
gave us an option that I think that should be worth discussing. Now, if we want a
continuance to think about it and maybe Steve and Mark, you know, mull things over a
little bit, what would that look like? But at the same time we know funding is -- is the
issue. How do you revenue stream this thing and make it work. I -- I don't know, but --
anyway, that -- that's where I am. We are either going to just not touch it and leave it
until -- let somebody else on another council deal with it or we try to figure something
out with the plan that's in front of us or we just wait for someone else -- they sell it and
somebody new comes in and gives it another try. So, anyway, that's -- that's just my
thinking, what's running through my head.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Yeah. Maybe a question for staff or a -- so, one of my concerns is that the
refinancing market changes or the -- things change and that this displacement of folks
could happen earlier than four years. Is that possible or is -- or is it no earlier than four
years? Because I didn't see at least that -- that language.
Simison: Just from a practical standpoint, displacement of these people could start in
30 days. I mean just so everyone's clear, I mean they -- they could cease to be a
mobile home park in 30 days if they so chose to be.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor? I understand, but I'm just trying -- I'm trying to think of like is
there a practical way to go about this? If there were four years maybe the city would
have time to try to work with the applicant on, you know, an affordable housing project in
this location or something -- some -- setting aside a portion of the apartment units or
something. I'm just concerned that we are going to approve the zoning change and,
then, you know, we have no leverage and there is no plan and if there is a plan it's not
flushed out and it just feels irresponsible to me to -- to go about it that way.
Overton: Mr. Mayor?
Allen: Mr. Mayor? Oh. Excuse me. Council Woman Strader, Council. There is a
provision in the development agreement that the final plat for the second phase of
development shall not be submitted to the planning division for a minimum period of four
years from the date of approval. The preliminary plat to allow residents ample time to
find other housing prior to redevelopment of the site. So, there is that provision, but --
but, like you say, the owner of the property could terminate the use before then. We
can't control that. Thank you.
Overton: Mr. Mayor?
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Simison: Councilman Overton.
Overton: I want to echo what Councilman Hoaglun said and also just kind of point out
the obvious. This property owner can give these folks 30 to 90 days right now,
regardless of anything we do tonight and, then, he can walk back in and say, okay, I
don't have any residents. Here is what I want to do. I think we are getting hung up on
something that's going to happen. When it happens I don't know. But I think we are
getting hung up on something that's going to redevelop that's not in our control and we
want the best for the people that are there, but, in reality, that's also still not in our
control. It can just be our best wishes as we go forward.
Parsons: Mayor, Members of the Council, if I can just kind of vet that solution I
proposed earlier. I think what Sonya just explained -- condition covers that. It kind of
slows down that from happening. But to your point it is a complicated topic and there is
a lot of moving parts to it and that's why I felt if we allow them to get something going on
the first phase and that allows us adequate time to work with the applicant and get a lot
of those I's dotted, T's crossed to try to find -- get a plan in place and make that happen.
I don't think -- I think from staff's perspective a continuance for four to six weeks isn't
going to get you a plan that you are looking for. This is going to take probably months
or more. We have been working with this applicant for over a year on this application.
We have been processing it and I have been talking with them about it for at least four
or five years. So, to -- to the applicant's credit they are -- they are bringing forth their
best effort. They understand this is a concern. They actually want to put the four year
clause on themselves, because they want to make sure they do the right thing. But I
think from -- from our perspective, getting something -- it's a trade-off; right? They are
asking for a rezone. They are asking for a subdivision. We don't have 3rd Street
constructed, so there is -- there is an incomplete street here that provides another public
benefit here. So, there is a lot of good things happening, too. But there is always that --
that difficult conundrum that we put ourselves in when we look at redevelop and trying
to -- to make things work. So, again, it was one solution, but certainly happy to allow
you to continue having that dialogue. But, again, I don't -- I don't know if a two or three
months continuance is going to get you what you want.
Allen: Mr. Mayor, may I?
Simison: Yes, Sonya.
Allen: Another -- another option might be to go forward as Bill is proposing and, then,
maybe require a modification to the development agreement prior to this -- that second
phase redeveloping, so that the applicant can come before you again there and -- and
explain, you know, maybe some options for -- for housing for these residents. Thank
you.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Meridian City Council
May 23,2023
Page 44 of 49
Perreault: Can you roll through that one more time, Sonya?
Allen: Yes. Mr. Mayor, Council, what I was suggesting is going forward with Bill's
proposal, allow them to go forward with the first phase of development and, then, prior
to any development occurring in that second phase, have the applicant come back
before you for a development agreement modification. Like, for instance, including a
provision in the development agreement now that says that the applicant shall come
back prior to redevelopment of the second phase of the project with a proposal for
housing for these residents that will be displaced.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton just unmuted and so the wise --
Hoaglun: I will let Councilman Borton go ahead.
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. So, I appreciate the discussion and -- and particularly
mindful of concerns of Council with regards to kind of a unique gentrification issue for
the city and there are very well might be conditions like Sonya and -- and Bill are talking
about, alternate ways to try and capture some control over a plan or even some context
to -- protection for some of these concerns. I don't think it needs to be a month or two
months and -- and Steve's a seasoned planner who probably in two weeks could outline
and -- and pinpoint the specifics of two or three different ways you might -- as a Council
we might capture this concern and be protected, whether that's through a DA mod,
whether that's through approving everything except the CUP on the multi-family. There
may be several different ways that we will have some -- some trigger to control these
concerns. I don't know if you are going to solve it tonight necessarily. I just -- the
discussion there is -- is -- I think it's well reasoned. It's making me pause and think
about this application. I think these are concerns that sounds like the applicant's
contemplated. Steve certainly thought -- thought about it and our planning staff's
thought about it. But I envision in two weeks being able to provide to us a list of -- now
that we understand the concerns with displacement and how this four year window
might work, I bet Steve could put a fine point on it and say here is two or three different
ways I think we can become comfortable with approving this, knowing there is some
future review. I just think it's difficult to try and -- to try and articulate that language right
now in light of this discussion, with one example and I will be quiet, but -- but Council
Woman Strader brings up the -- the reality of, you know, providing a plan for how it will
be addressed -- can mean a variety of different things and it could be a superficial plan
that merely checks a box and this doesn't really address any of the concerns, but the
horse is out of the barn, so -- that's not this applicant's intent, but there really is going to
be some careful language needed however this is addressed, which is why I'm quiet
and -- and pondering the concerns. So, I respect the -- the questions from my fellow
Council Members on it. I think the mind and heart is in the right place. It might take a
couple weeks to come up with some specific language, at least in my mind.
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May 23,2023
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Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: I had a question for Sonya as you were talking and that is -- and it gets into --
I think what Councilman Borton raises -- is if we were to approve something and say,
okay, we will do the rezone, but, then, we will -- we will allow phase one to proceed and,
then, we will wait on phase two, you know, if we do that rezone, then, they have got
ability to go forward and -- and how do we adequately condition or DA or however we do
that and that's why I'm -- that's why I think -- I think Councilman Borton has good words
of stepping back and, okay, thinking this through, having the applicant kind of look at
this and consider some things, having staff -- we have started down a path of a possible
solution, but then, how do we make sure the appropriate things take place at the right
time in the right way, because I -- it is -- I don't know what those really are, to -- I don't
want to miss something that is important, but -- so, Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: We -- we do have some options if we want to continue this. We have -- I
don't know what the hearings are, but we have three hearings on June 6th. We don't
have any hearings scheduled at this time for the 13th. That's certainly can change.
And, then, we have four on the 20th.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: I'd almost -- with that information share with Steve and Mark and kind of get
some of their feedback as well. You have heard three dates kind of proposed. Is there
any of those three that work better for you than others, recognizing you want to move
quickly on this, but --
Arnold: Yeah. Mr. Mayor, you know, Councilman Cavener, the 13th I believe I have
freed up. The 20th I have freed up. The 6th I believe I have another hearing at a
different jurisdiction. So, the soonest that we could come back would be the 13th.
Although maybe we don't need to come back.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor --
Arnold: This is the only issue.
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor, I wanted to ask staff, though. How -- what -- what does that --
does the 13th work for you to come back and have further discussion on this and --
because I think you do other things on other nights, too. I -- I'm not sure. I don't know.
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May 23,2023
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Allen: The 20th might be better just to allow a little extra time for both parties and, then,
to prepare a memo to get out to Council a week before the hearing as per the deadline.
Hoaglun: Yeah. We -- we don't have a meeting next week and, then, we won't do the
6th and, then, the 13th, so that would be three weeks, but we can do the -- do the 20th.
We do have four hearings, but I don't know what those hearings are, if they are nice
simple short plats or long and involved other type of projects.
Allen: They are pretty simple. There is a time extension, a final plat, and two vacations.
Hoaglun: Oh.
Allen: So, those should all be -- those are all mine. But they should all be pretty quick.
Johnson: Mr. Mayor --
Allen: And this project, of course, be first.
Arnold: Cool.
Hoaglun: And, Steve, you were -- you were okay on the 20th; correct? It was the six
that you had complications with?
Arnold: Yeah. The only one was the 6th.
Hoaglun: Okay.
Arnold: 13th or 20th works.
Hoaglun: Okay. Council, are we in agreement that -- then I -- I -- I would move that we
continue --
Simison: Councilman Borton, were you -- looked like you were --
Borton: Yeah. But I was just going to -- I can comment after the motion, but just some
comment for -- for Steve and the applicant. A couple of things. One we are -- we are
mindful of the -- the multitude of variables that impact the -- the relocation of individuals
and we are also mindful of the massive risk that you take in trying to get a project like
this off the ground and do a rezone and are appreciative of those efforts. I think it's a --
it's a beautiful project with lots of challenges that we are -- we are wise to be cautious
and appreciate your patience to make sure we don't get language that's -- that's well-
intentioned, but actually screws it up and we are back trying to do a modification down
the road. So, again, just appreciate the work. In-fill projects and -- and resumes are are tricky. This is one of them for sure. So, I -- I think what I heard us ask of you is and I think -- I think a timeline exhibit would be helpful as well to illustrate what you have
talked about with the rollout of phase one versus two and where the lending gap
Meridian City Council
May 23,2023
Page 47 of 49
prohibits advancing phase two. I think that's going to help articulate the time frame that
you are providing to these residents to prepare for relocation and however that might
work. I think that will be helpful as well. Thanks.
Simison: And maybe just to help. Are there any concerns with the underlying project
that Council would like to raise or make sure it will be addressed? I didn't really hear
any other than lights on the pathway, but we are going to put this first. Are there -- I just
want to make sure that we are making sure everything is addressed coming back or is it
just the plan at this point in time that Council is concerned about? I'm not asking for
your -- to tell how you are going to vote, but anything else specifically? Okay.
Hoaglun: So, Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: I would move that we continue the public hearing for Promenade Cottages
Subdivision, H-2022-0013 to June 20th.
Cavener: Second.
Simison: Have a motion and a second to continue the public hearing. Is there any
discussion? If not, all in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay? The ayes have it
and the item is continued.
MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES.
5. Public Hearing for Sky Mesa Highlands Subdivision No. 1 (H-2023-
0024) by JUB Engineers, located at 6380 S. Cubola Way.
A. Request: Vacation to vacate 0.5 feet of the 5-foot side yard public
utility easement on Lot 37, Block 1, Sky Mesa Highlands
Subdivision No. 1.
Simison: And just ask staff -- next item looks pretty quick, so -- seem accurate? Okay.
So, we will go ahead and move on to Item 5, which is public hearing for Sky Mesa
Highlands Subdivision No. 1, H-2023-0024. We will open this hearing with staff
comments.
Allen: Pardon me, Mr. Mayor. Alrighty. The final application before you tonight is a --
am I sharing? Yes, I'm sharing. Okay. Is an easement vacation. This property is
zoned R-4 and is located at 6372 South Cubola Way. This property is platted as Lot 37,
Block 1, Sky Mesa Highlands Subdivision No. 1. The applicant request to vacate the
southerly .5 feet of the five foot wide side yard utility easement along the northern
boundary of Lot 37, Block 1. A property boundary adjustment was recently approved
that shifted the northerly side property line .5 feet to the north. The applicant states
there are no underground or overhead utilities in the subject easement area.
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May 23,2023
Page 48 of 49
Relinquishment letters have been received from all potential easement holders
consenting to the partial vacation of the easement as proposed. Staff is recommending
approval and no written testimony has been received on this application.
Simison: Thank you. Council, any questions for staff? Okay. Is the applicant here?
Would the applicant like to make any comments? Applicant has waived any comments.
Is there anybody from the public who would like to make any comments? No one's
online either, so that would be a no as well. Applicant waives final comments? Okay.
Council, what's your direction?
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: I move that we close the public hearing.
Cavener: Second.
Simison: Have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. Is there any
discussion? If not, all in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay? The ayes have it
and the public hearing is closed.
MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Seems straightforward. Thank you for hanging in this whole evening with us.
We appreciate it. I would like to make a motion. After considering all staff, applicant --
and applicant testimony -- non-testimony, I move to approve File No. H-2023-0024 as
presented to the staffing -- staff report for today's hearing date.
Borton: Second.
Strader: Have a motion and a second. Is there any discussion? If not, Clerk will call
the roll.
Roll Call: Hoaglun, yea; Borton, yea; Cavener, yea; Perreault, yea; Strader, yea;
Overton, yea.
Simison: All ayes. Motion carries and the item is agreed to.
MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES.
FUTURE MEETING TOPICS
Meridian City Council
May 23,2023
Page 49 of 49
Simison: Thank you. Have a good evening. Anything under our future meeting topics?
EXECUTIVE SESSION
6. per Idaho Code 74-206 (1)0) To consider labor contract matters
authorized under section 74-206A (1)(a) and (b), Idaho Code
Simison: Or do I have a motion for Item 6?
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: I would move that we go into Executive Session for Idaho Code 74-206(1)(j).
Cavener: Second.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to go into Executive Session. Is there any
discussion? If not, Clerk will call the roll.
Roll Call: Hoaglun, yea; Borton, yea; Cavener, yea; Perreault, yea; Strader, yea;
Overton, yea.
Simison: All ayes. Motion carries and we will go to Executive Session.
MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES.
EXECUTIVE SESSION: (8:50 p.m. to 9:53 p.m.)
(Motion to return from Executive Session - Hoaglun. Seconded by Cavener.)
(Motion to adjourn — Hoaglun.)
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 9:54 P.M.
(AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
MAYOR ROBERT E. SIMISON
ATTEST: Approved 6-6-2023
CHRIS JOHNSON - CITY CLERK