HomeMy WebLinkAbout2023-05-09 Regular Minutes Meridian City Council May 9, 2023.
A Meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 6.02 p.m. Tuesday, May
9, 2023, by Mayor Robert Simison.
Members Present: Robert Simison, Joe Borton, Brad Hoaglun, Jessica Perreault, Liz
Strader and John Overton.
Members Absent: Luke Cavener.
Also present: Joy Hall, Bill Nary, Bill Parsons, Sonya Allen, Scott Colaianni, Kris Blume
and Dean Willis.
ROLL-CALL ATTENDANCE
Liz Strader _X_ Joe Borton
_X_ Brad Hoaglun _X_ John Overton
X Jessica Perreault Luke Cavener
X Mayor Robert E. Simison
Simison: Council, we will call the meeting to order. For the record it is May 9th, 2023.
It's 6.02 p.m. We will begin tonight's City Council meeting with roll call attendants.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
Simison: Next up is the Pledge of Allegiance. If you would all, please, rise and join us
in the pledge.
(Pledge of Allegiance recited.)
COMMUNITY INVOCATION
Simison: Next up is our community invocation, which tonight will be delivered by Pastor
Ben Blakey. If you would all, please, join us in the community invocation or take this as
a moment of silence and reflection. Good evening.
Blakey: Our Father in Heaven, hallowed be your name. Your Kingdom come, your will
be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our
debts as we also have forgiven our debtors and lead us not into temptation, but deliver
us from evil. Father, I lift these requests up to you on behalf of this city that your name
would be hallowed and honored, that people would be free to gather and worship, that
your will would be done, that this would be a place that is characterized by
righteousness and justice, that you would provide for the needs of this city and its
citizens, that this would be a place characterized by forgiveness where each one of us
is humble and realizes the forgiveness that we need and is eager to extend that
forgiveness to others and, God, we pray that you would protect this community and
Meridian City Council Work Session
May 2,2023
Page 2 of 59
deliver it from evil, God, that you would just work through even just our law
enforcement, our fire department, that you would keep this city safe and protected and,
God, we lift these things up to you, we pray for wisdom for these men and women who
lead our city and we ask your blessing upon this meeting tonight in Jesus' name, amen.
ADOPTION OF AGENDA
Simison: Thank you. First item up is adoption of the agenda.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: I move that we adopt the agenda as published.
Overton: Second.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to adopt agenda as published. Is there any
discussion? If not, all in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay? The ayes have it
and the agenda is adopted.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
PUBLIC FORUM — Future Meeting Topics
Simison: Mr. Clerk, do we have anyone signed up under public forum?
Johnson: Mr. Mayor, we did not.
ACTION ITEMS
1. Public Hearing for King's Congregation Church (H-2023-0013) by
Glancey Rockwell &Associates, located at 1150 E. Pienza St.
A. Request: Development Agreement Modification to the existing
Development Agreement (AZ-08-014 - Inst.#109088809) to update
the conceptual development plan and building elevations.
Simison: Okay. Then with that we will move on to our Action Items this evening. Our
first item up is a public hearing for King's Congregation Church, H-2023-0013. We will
open this public hearing with staff comments from Sonya.
Allen: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council. The first item before you is a
request for a development agreement modification. This site consists of 2.33 acres of
land. It's zoned L-O, limited office, and it's located at 1150 East Pienza Street at the
southeast corner of East Victory Road and South Mesa Way. This property was
Meridian City Council Work Session
May 2,2023
Page 3 of 59
annexed back in 2008 with the requirement of a development agreement. The
Comprehensive Plan future land use map designation is civic. The applicant is
proposing to modify the existing development agreement to update the conceptual
development plan and building elevations for the site and modify DA Provision No.
5.1.6. The existing development agreement includes a plan for the first and second
phases of the development. The first phase has been completed and included
improvements to the existing church building, removal of the access point via Victory
Road, a paved 41 space parking lot with an emergency turnaround for the fire
department off of Pienza Street. The installation of a landscape street buffer along East
Victory Road and a pressurized irrigation system. The second phase included a new
42,500 square foot church building, with an additional 52 parking spaces and
associated landscaping. The original plan there is on the left. The existing church is
nearest to Victory Road and the phase two church building is on the southern end of the
property. The plan on the right is the proposed master plan. The proposed concept
plan reduces the size of the new building from 42,000 to 500 square feet -- to 7,400
square feet and includes a reconfiguration of the site. The existing building will remain,
along with some of the existing parking. Parking is proposed where the new building
was previously proposed on the southern end of the site. The design and building
materials of the new building is proposed to change from a two story to a single story
and will include a dark grey asphalt shingled roof, instead of a blue metal roof. White
horizontal siding instead of stucco. Stone veneer wainscot is still proposed to coincide
with the existing structure and a white steeple is proposed. Although the proposed
roofing material and color and siding materials differ from the existing structure, the
main color stone wainscot and roof pitch of the buildings are generally compatible and
should be compatible with adjacent residential structures. Final design is required to
comply with the design standards in the Architectural Standards Manual. The previous
development plan did not have an access via South Mesa Way along the west boundary
of the site, as the street had not yet been constructed at that time. The proposed
access via Mesa Way will provide better connectivity and access with adjacent
developments and streets. The jog in the access points from Raceway and Pienza
Street -- you can see here Pienza Street comes in here at the east boundary and --
excuse me. The east boundary and, then, here at the west boundary it connects to
Mesa Way. And the jog in it should assist in slowing traffic and reducing cut-through
traffic through the site. In accord with this change a modification is proposed to
Development Agreement Provision No. 5.1.6 as follows: Direct access to Victory Road
is prohibited. Access to this site shall be provided from East Pienza Street and South
Mesa Way -- is the portion that was added. All other access points to and from the site
are prohibited unless approved by ACHD and the City of Meridian. The off-street
parking proposed for the development exceeds the minimum UDC standards by 74
spaces. Based on the overall square footage of the building, which is 14,329 square
feet, a minimum of 28 spaces are required. A total of 103 spaces are proposed. Written
testimony was received from Ryan McColly, the applicant's representative. He is in
agreement with the staff report and staff is recommending approval for the staff report.
Staff will stand for any questions.
Simison: Thank you, Sonya. Council, any questions for staff?
Meridian City Council Work Session
May 2,2023
Page 4 of 59
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: Sonya, it looks like the existing building has directly west existing parking lot
and the new plan shows it -- it looks like green space. Are they -- they are tearing out
that parking lot and greening it up? Is that the plan?
Allen: Mr. Mayor, Councilman Borton, yes, that is correct.
Borton: Okay. Just checking. Thanks. Council, any additional questions for staff? All
right. Is the applicant here? Like to come forward? State your name and address for
the record and be recognized for 15 minutes.
McColly: Ryan McColly. 4868 Riverfront Place, Garden City.
Simison: Do you have any -- any comments you would like to add?
McColly: We agree with the staff report.
Simison: Okay. Council, any questions for the applicant? Okay. Thank you very much.
Mr. Clerk, do we have anybody signed up on this item?
Johnson: Mr. Mayor, there was not last I checked. I have not been to the back of the
room though.
Simison: Okay. Is there anybody who would like to provide testimony on this item?
Come on up and state your name and address for the record, be recognized for up to
three minutes. And just have to choose one of the mics.
Bierman: Thank you. My name is Mike Bierman. 1204 East Pienza Street in Meridian.
Just down from the church. I don't have a testimony, I just have some questions and I'm
sorry if they have already been answered, but, Pienza Street, is that going to be a
through street? It didn't look like it, but a through street to the street just to the west of
the church? Or is that just a parking lot?
Allen: Mr. Mayor, Councilmen, I can respond to that. Pienza Street is not being
continued as a public street through this site. It does kind of stub into this site and there
is a turnaround and, then, it's just a private parking lot through this site and, then, it goes
out to Mesa further to the south -- to the west.
Bierman: So, anyone that came through the parking lot would be doing so basically
illegally, because they are using the parking lot to come over to Pienza? Is that --
Allen: Well, it's not public right of way or it is a -- a private property, so they -- they
shouldn't be, but --
Meridian City Council Work Session
May 2,2023
Page 5 of 59
Bierman: Yeah. Okay. That's my only concern. We live on Pienza and we kind of like
that dead end street, but I was just curious about that.
Allen: Yeah. As I mentioned, there is a -- there is a bit of a jog in it, so hopefully that will
kind of --
Bierman: Yeah.
Allen: Keep people from using it as a cut through.
Bierman: Yeah. And, then, how tall is the building? Is the -- phase two the one that's
going to have the taller building or is it going to be -- phase one going to be a two story
building?
Allen: Mr. Mayor, would you like me to respond?
Simison: If you -- if you can, yes.
Allen: Thank you.
Simison: If not we can save it for the applicant, whichever you prefer.
Allen: The -- I don't have the exact height of the structure, but it is a single story
structure, whereas the previous concept plan was for a two story structure.
Bierman: So, which one's a two story?
Allen: So, if you look at the overhead here, the one on the right is the proposed concept
plan and the one on the left was the original two story. So, the size is reduced
significantly from 42,000 to basically 7,400 square feet overall.
Bierman: Thank you very much.
Simison: Council, any questions or -- okay. Mr. Clerk, was there anybody that did sign
up?
Johnson: Mr. Mayor, no.
Simison: Okay. Is there anybody else that would like to provide testimony on this item?
Okay. Then would the applicant like to make any final comments? Applicant is waiving
final comments. So, Council, what's your preference, desires? No questions?
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Meridian City Council Work Session
May 2,2023
Page 6 of 59
Strader: I move that we close the public hearing.
Perreault: Second.
Simison: Have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. Is there any
discussion? If not, all in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay? The ayes have it
and the public hearing is closed.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: So, all appears to be in order. I don't see that the changes are detrimental in
any way and seems additive to the community. With that in mind I move that we
approve -- after considering all staff, applicant, and public testimony, I move to approve
File No. H-2023-0013 as presented in the staff report for today's hearing date.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: Just to second the motion, but also make a quick comment. I just want to
say I think --
Simison: Have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Yes, Council Woman
Perreault.
Perreault: My apologies. I just want to say it looks like it's going to be a beautiful
building and we are big supporters of our faith community here at the city, so I'm excited
to see how this benefits your neighbors and I love it when we see places of faith that are
new to the -- you know, that -- that's not -- you are not new, but it's going to be
somewhere you are going to be able to -- to benefit your congregation. So,
congratulations on that.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Yeah. Just to note for -- for the gentleman who was up here, Pienza -- I like
the layout, because if you are looking up that street you are just going to see a church
building and nothing else. It doesn't look like, oh, I can make it to that street -- other
street if you drive through the parking lot and make that wind around. So, I think that's a
-- that's a good design that should be very helpful. Council, any additional comments?
Then, if not, Clerk will call the roll.
Meridian City Council Work Session
May 2,2023
Page 7 of 59
Roll Call: Hoaglun, yea; Borton, yea; Cavener, absent; Perreault, yea; Strader, yea;
Overton, yea.
Simison: All ayes. Motion carries and the item is agreed to. Thank you very much.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
2. Public Hearing for Modern Craftsman Franklin (H-2022-0079) by
Horrocks Engineers, Inc., located at 4540, 4490 & 4420 W. Franklin
Rd., approximately 1/4 mile east of the northeast corner of W.
Franklin Rd. and N. Black Cat Rd.
A. Request: Development Agreement Modification to the existing
Development Agreement (Inst.#2020-117678) to remove the
property at 4540 W. Franklin Rd. from the agreement for the
purpose of including it in the proposed multifamily development.
B. Request: Annexation of 10.29 acres of land with an R-15 (medium
high density residential) zoning district.
C. Request: Preliminary Plat consisting of one (1) building lot and (1)
one other lot on 11.47 acres of land in the R-15 zoning district.
D. Request: Conditional Use Permit for a multi-family development
consisting of 122 dwelling units on 11.47 acres of land in the R-15
zoning district.
Simison: So, next item up is Item 2, public hearing for Modern Craftsman Franklin, H-
2022-0079. We will open this public hearing with staff comments.
Allen: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council. The next applications before
you -- there is several. Request for a development agreement modification, annexation
and zoning, conditional use permit and a preliminary plat. This site consists of 11.47
acres of land. It's zoned RUT in Ada county and R-15 in the city and is located at 4540,
4490 and 4420 West Franklin Road. The western portion of this site at 4540 West
Franklin Road was previously annexed in this city with the Compass Charter School
East expansion project and that is this little -- little piece right here where my pointer's
at. The future land use map designation for this property is medium high density
residential, which calls for densities ranging from eight to 15 units per acre, with a target
density of 12 units per acre in the Ten Mile Interchange Specific Area Plan. The
applicant is requesting a modification to the existing development agreement to remove
the property at 4540 West Franklin Road. Again, that west small parcel from the
agreement for the purpose of including it in the proposed multi-family residential
development and the new development agreement associated with the proposed
annexation. The applicant proposes to annex the eastern two parcels consisting of
10.29 acres of land with an R-15 medium high density residential zoning district. A
Meridian City Council Work Session
May 2,2023
Page 8 of 59
multi-family residential development with a mix of housing types is proposed at a gross
density of 10.6 units per acre consistent with the medium high density residential future
land use designation in the Comprehensive Plan. A development agreement is
recommended as a provision of annexation that includes the west parcel proposed to be
removed from the existing development agreement. That area was planned to develop
with a parking lot and a sports field for the adjacent charter school. A preliminary plat is
proposed consisting of one building lot and one other lot on 11.47 acres of land in the R-
15 zoning district. Right of way is proposed to be dedicated with the plat for the
extension of West Aviator Street, a collector street, across the northwest corner of the
site in accord with the master street map. Access is proposed via the collector street,
Aviator, with the driveway access via West Franklin Road, an Arterial Street, at the
southwest corner of the site. The driveway is required to be located along the west
property line for shared access with the property to the west. Private streets were
approved by the director for internal access and for addressing purposes. Street buffer
landscaping is required along the collector and arterial streets in accord with UDC
standards. The Purdam Gulch Drain lies off site along the east boundary of the property
within a one hundred foot wide easement on land owned by Nampa-Meridian Irrigation
District. The easement encroaches on this property at the northeast corner of the site.
A conditional use permit is proposed for a multi-family residential development
consisting of 122 dwelling units in the R-15 zoning district. A mix of housing types with
one, two and three bedroom units is proposed consisting of single family residential
detached, attached, duplex and townhomes. Because all units will be on a single lot,
rather than individual lots, it's considered a multi-family residential development. All
units will be for rent, rather than individually owned. A minimum of 1.9 acres of qualified
open space and five site amenities are required to meet the minimum standards. An
updated common open space exhibit was submitted as shown since the Commission
hearing that depicts a total of 2.15 acres of common open space that complies with and
exceeds the minimum standards. Site amenities are proposed as follows from each of
the required categories. Quality of life. A clubhouse and a dog park and a way station
is required with that. An open space. A community garden is proposed. From the
recreation category of swimming pool, internal walking trails, children's play structure.
And from the multi-modal category, charging stations for electric vehicles, which meet
and exceed the UDC standards. Off-street parking is proposed for the development
that exceeds and meets the UDC standards. A minimum of 248 parking spaces are
required. A total of 260 are proposed. Conceptual building elevations were submitted
for the proposed structures within the development as shown. Building materials
appear to consist of a stucco like material, with wood look lap siding and stone accents,
with asphalt shingle roofs. Final design should comply with the multi-family design
standards listed in the Architectural Standards Manual and the Traditional Neighborhood
Design Guidelines in the Ten Mile Plan for the medium high density residential future
land use designation. The proposed conceptual elevations are not approved and
require additional revisions prior to final approval. The Commission did recommend
approval of the proposed applications with conditions. I will just go through a summary
of the Commission hearing. Elizabeth Koeckeritz from Givens Pursley testified in favor,
along with David Bailey from Bailey Engineering. No one testified in opposition or
commented on the application. Written testimony was received from Shannon Ely,
Meridian City Council Work Session
May 2,2023
Page 9 of 59
Baron Properties, and that is the applicant. The applicant requested a few changes to
the staff report, which have been addressed by staff and the Commission as noted in
the Commission recommendation in the staff report. The key issues of discussion by
the Commission -- again these issues have been discussed. The issues, excuse me,
that were discussed have been resolved. Commission changes to the staff
recommendation are as follows: At staffs request a condition was added for a sidewalk
to be provided along the south side of West Fresh Powder Lane on the north side of the
common area where the community center is located for pedestrian connectivity and
safety. Second. At the applicant's request the street names were updated per the
updated plans. Third. At the applicant's request modification to Condition B.2.9 per the
language proposed by the applicant and agreed upon by staff. The only -- the only
outstanding issue before Council tonight -- and it's not so much an outstanding issue,
but staff did request that the applicant share details on what type of public art is
proposed and the location for such. Written testimony has been received since the
Commission hearing from the applicant's representative Elizabeth Koeckeritz in
agreement with the Commission recommendation. No other letters of testimony have
been provided from adjacent residents or neighbors. Staff will stand for any questions.
Simison: Thank you. Council, any questions for staff?
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: I have two questions. My first question -- in the staff report there was a
comment that 65 percent of the application does not follow street oriented design, which
is called for the Ten Mile Specific Plan. So, I just wanted to talk about that a little bit.
What kind of changes would be needed to bring this into more compliance with the Ten
Mile Specific Area Plan? I know porches are a big part of it. You guys talked about that
pretty specifically. But is there anything else that we would expect to see?
Allen: Mr. Mayor, Council Woman Strader, Council, you nailed it pretty much. The -- the
porches are really something that's desired for traditional neighborhood design in the
Ten Mile area and there -- there isn't much to speak of on the -- except for the
townhome units. So, that is something that we will be looking for.
Strader: Mr. Mayor, if I can --
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Thank you. So, is this something that you would work with the applicant later
on? Because I know you mentioned like the conceptual design, you would expect to
see revisions. I mean is that something that we would normally work with the applicant
on later or is this something we expect up front? Like we -- we have seen projects
before where they don't meet the Ten Mile Specific Plan and they don't get approval.
So, I just wanted to sort of understand. But you just made a comment about conceptual
Meridian City Council Work Session
May 2,2023
Page 10 of 59
design revisions. How does that fit together and how -- you know, how far is it off of
meeting our standards for the Ten Mile Area Plan?
Allen: Yes, Mr. Mayor, Council Woman Strader, the -- the details of the design are
typically handled with the design review staff -- application at staff level. It -- it is more
ideal to have these elevations revised prior to Council approval. I have not received
revised updated plans from the applicant. I did not ask for any to specify that, but, yeah,
it is more ideal for you guys to see what's being approved out there. But it is -- it is
something that we typically handle with design review.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Thank you. I'm not sure I'm totally comfortable just because like we have had
several applications that we have denied because they didn't meet the Ten Mile Specific
Area Plan. So, the applicant heard that. So, hopefully, they will address that in their
presentation. My second question is there is a Condition B.2.9 which I had reviewed,
but I didn't fully understand the rationale for this change, besides that there was a
precedent for other projects in which we have done this. If the applicant could
specifically address that and I don't know, Sonya, if you have any comment on it.
Basically is this typical for other projects -- not their projects, but other projects to
request this sort of a change in the language?
Allen: Mr. Mayor, Council Woman Strader, it's -- it's a Public Works condition. I think
the applicant can better address the -- the response to that. Thank you.
Strader: Fair enough.
Simison: Council, any other questions for staff? Okay. Then would the applicant like to
come forward? Good evening.
Koeckeritz: Good evening, Mayor and City Council Members. My name is Elizabeth
Koeckeritz: I'm with Givens Pursley at 601 Bannock. With me tonight is Matt Riggs,
Greg Hector of Baron Properties, as well as other members of our local development
team. We really want to thank Sonya and Bill on this project and the entire
development staff for their assistance. It's been a really collaborative process and,
actually, Council Member Strader -- I will get into it. We really worked -- we worked
really hard with staff in order to create more of a boulevard like feel on this really
uniquely shaped property that is kind of awkward to get in and through. We have gone
through multiple iterations of this and we actually -- we are really proud of where we
have landed on this. Just a brief -- whoa. Going way too fast. Just a brief Baron
Properties overview. It's been a little while since they have been here. They were
originally founded in 1983 by Jeff Riggs and they have developed and operated over
125 residential communities throughout the Mountain West. The residential
developments provide high end amenities in a community that's operated and
Meridian City Council Work Session
May 2,2023
Page 11 of 59
maintained by Baron from the get go, from the beginning to the end they own the
property, they build the buildings, and, then, they manage the property going forward, so
that residents can enjoy these communities without any maintenance or upkeep that's
associated with home ownership, but they can live in a community that lives and feels
and works much like a single family residential home owned community. Most recently
they have done two projects here in Meridian. The first was Black Cat, which was the
first of its kind of Treasure Valley. I know it certainly was one of the first -- or the first
one that our office worked on that really brought in this sort of concept. Baron believes
that this high end unique product type with the mix of detached and attached rental
units, with all of the high end amenities, was something that was missing here and it's
really played out. This -- the Black Cat has -- phase one is done. It's started leasing up
and it has been receiving rave reviews from the tenants saying this has been a great
place to live. Phase two is just starting to lease up and they expect phases three and
four to be done by the end of the summer, beginning of the fall. The other similar
development is Ten Mile, which is 135 units. That's also -- phase one is finishing up and
at least they have signed at least a dozen leases for this development. They expect to
have complete build out by the end of the summer. One thing that's really nice about
working with Baron is that they have been really active in the community and with the
local chapter of the National Apartment Association. They recently had their annual
event and Baron Properties brought home four awards. These awards are voted on by
the membership, which includes most of the -- are recognizable -- many of our
recognizable prominent multi-family owners and developers in the valley. The Black Cat
Project received the Property of Excellence in Meridian Award. So, moving on to the
development that's before you. To help orient you, as Sonya mentioned, we are located
directly north of Franklin, very close to Black Cat Road and southeast or directly east of
the Compass Charter School. We are located really close to the northern edge of the
Ten Mile Interchange Specific Area and there have recently been several developments
approved in the direct vicinity, including Alamar directly to the east, Aviator to the north,
and Newkirk to the northeast. This will be another really high end Baron property. It -- I
believe it will be going by the name Colorado Ridge, which is going to bring another one
of these high end communities to Meridian. Tonight, as Sonya mentioned, we are
requesting annexation, zoning, CUP, and a DA amendment. It has 122 units on
approximately 11.5 acres and we really have worked hard to collaboratively design this
with input from staff and to try to meet the Ten Mile Interchange Special Area Plan. You
can see -- you come in off the south -- our primary entrance -- one of our two entrances
is coming in off the south off of Franklin Road, where, then, you will take a direct right to
go in through the development and, then, you head north and I will show you in the
pictures here in the minute of the boulevard lined street that was designed to match with
the standards in the Ten Mile plan. Ultimately you pop out on that -- onto Aviator Street,
which is in the process of being extended right now. There is the R-15. It offers a wide
variety of housing styles and types. We have our one, two and three bedroom offerings.
They are in detached homes and duplexes and six-plexes. You can see here the lime
green, which is a little hard with my eyes to see -- it -- are the townhome units. There is
also -- the purple dots are the one bedroom, one bath, duplexes. There are 18 two
bedroom, two bath bungalows, which are standalone and six three bedroom, two bath,
bungalows in red, which are also standalone. And those two bedroom, two bath,
Meridian City Council Work Session
May 2,2023
Page 12 of 59
bungalows are in bright green. So, talking about the TMISAP, it focuses really on three
elements. Land use, transportation and design. And I will talk about each of these
briefly in turn. This land is designated medium high density residential and most of it is
already appropriately -- or part of it is already appropriately zoned R-15. It's generally
located in and around more intensely developed areas. Directly to the west across
Black Cat is designated low density employment and mixed employment, which
provides community -- access to future employment centers for the maximum number of
residents. Within one mile of the site, as you know, it's really busy and bustling. There
is property designated mixed employment, high density employment, industrial and
commercial, making this site ideally situated for the unique housing type where
residents can truly live and work where they live. Within this the R-15 zoning and the
medium high density residential single family detached townhomes and two family
duplexes, are -- are all recommended housing types here. Although they may be rental
units they still live and work like those types of units. The target density is 12 units per
acre. We are at 10.6 units per acre here. One thing that -- that TMI -- this is really --
discusses is there is a focus on the transportation. We worked with the property owner
to the north to provide Aviator Drive, which comes through and it will cut through the
upper top corner of the property and extend onto their property. It's primarily going to be
on the subdivision to the north, but we have been working with them to be able to get
that complete here. The owner to the north owns the lion's share of the property and so
we are just entering into some agreements for them to construct that across the Baron
property here. We also recognize that ACHD wanted to limit the access points onto
Franklin Road, which is one of the reasons why we have that shared access. That will
provide access to the -- as the properties to the west redevelop there is a -- oh, what is
it? Sunset -- is it a gardening store? Right there. And that will be -- they will be able to
have a shared access and also close down some of their access points once they have
redeveloped. Additionally the TMISAP originally showed a connector sort of tracking the
Purdam Drain. How the properties have actually worked out is there really is now this --
going from -- going from Black Cat to Franklin, that's C to B on this map. There is really
-- that's where that connection has ultimately sort of ended up as these properties have
developed. So, that is still in there. Street design and product orientation. The TMISAP
focuses on complete streets that work for motorists, bus riders, bicyclists and
pedestrians. This is a really long narrow property and so a lot of things that might work
in other places aren't going to work here and so what the -- what Baron did is they
worked with -- closely with staff in designing this long boulevard that goes throughout
the property. As you can see all of the townhomes along here and the properties, they
front onto the street. All of the parking is tucked in behind and there is also some on-
street parking. These are relatively narrower boulevard design. The drive lane is 24
feet, with nine feet of parallel parking on each side, followed by the eight foot carriage
strip with trees, a five foot sidewalk, and, then, it's five feet to the homes along this
street front and they do all have their front entrances on here and that street design was
taken from the TMISAP. I think it exactly matches or it almost exactly matches the
street designs in the TMISAP. All the garages were moved to the rear to get off of this
main boulevard street running through there. There are still garages located in other
places throughout the property, but as a multi-family residential development it's hard to
-- really without having the formal streets that would exist in like a single family
Meridian City Council Work Session
May 2,2023
Page 13 of 59
residential -- to meet all of those requirements and so we feel that this does a really
good job of providing that boulevard, that central people are onto fronting onto this main
street throughout. This also incorporates by having crosswalks and the landscaped
roundabouts or the crosswalks or the -- I guess they are not roundabouts if you are not
turning off of them. It also does really help with the traffic calming through here. The
property is also conveniently located on VRT Routes 40 and 42. Okay. The building
details -- there -- although there -- we had --just had a few very brief conversations, but
we are absolutely willing to continue to work with staff and -- and define these and work
through these to make sure that what we are coming forward with ultimately does match
what is the -- what is being requested and looked at here. It was our understanding that
these were really close to being what -- after working with staff on this for I believe
almost over a year, that these were really close to what was being looked at. It's really
high quality construction. All the units are one and two stories. There is a variety of roof
lines. There is porches and frontages and fronts -- like as you can see on these, these
townhome units, they all have sort of a front grassy area fronting onto the street. One of
the things that we have not included is that -- is their private open space, but it really
works and acts like sort of their own private open space really fronting right onto this
boulevard street. All of -- as requested by the plan all mechanical units are screened
with fences. In addition, we have usable front porches. Every unit adjacent has a porch
or a front entryway. The garages are all loaded from the rear alleyway. They are not
visible from the primary street. This is a traditional neighborhood design standard with
the landscape parkway with trees. There is a diversity of residential styles and types. It
appeals to a wide range of people with a variety of price points. There is also this
compact walkable nature. There is a lot of pathways throughout that make it easy to get
to and from the various buildings on the site. We will go through the design review
process, of course, and we will continue to fine tune these buildings with staff. Here you
can see one of the one bedroom, one bath, duplexes. These have an open floor plan
with an emphasis on natural light. They each have a small private fenced backyard and
only one shared wall. They are highly desirable. Wow, this goes fast. The two and
three bedroom townhomes, we do believe these really do meet the design elements of
the TMISAP. There is the roof parapets with the unique toppings. There is elements on
the facade of these flat roofed buildings and attention has been paid to the use of
articulation, the signs, details, and inlays on these units. Again they are made with high
quality materials. Screened mechanical units. Those have -- the three bedroom units
are on the end. The two bedroom units are in between. Upper balconies and lower
porches, plus that private little small green space. I'm all over the place. I apologize.
There we go. The interior amenities. As I mentioned these are really nice. They are
highly desirable. There is private patios. Tuck under and attached garages. Ten to 12
foot ceilings. Spacious open living floor plans. Just really all of your high end amenities
that you would be looking for and in-unit washers and dryers. The community is where
these properties really shine. It provides many amenities, including the pool. This
attached grill. The playground attached to the pool area. The dog park. The EV
charging station. All of those things. There are detached garages with storage that are
available for rent, so you can also have -- if you don't have parking with your unit, tuck
under parking you can find parking. There is also storage available and the one thing I
guess I will just finish with is the amount of open space. One of the things that Baron
Meridian City Council Work Session
May 2,2023
Page 14 of 59
prides itself on is all of the open space, that there is the community open space and,
then, there is also -- they do the private residential space. So, each unit has its own
private residential space that -- on the townhome units is a little bit smaller, but on the
other units -- the duplexes have 138 square feet of patio and 126 feet of yard, up to the
two bedroom units have 153 square foot patios, plus 425 square feet of private yards.
In addition, we have confirmed that all services are available and we meet all of the
annexation and zoning standards. With that I will stand for any questions.
Simison: Thank you. Council, any questions for the applicant?
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Thank you. Thank you, Elizabeth. First of all, shout out for the matrix. It's the
first time I have seen a matrix like that for zoning. That was really interesting. So, I
appreciated you providing that. A lot of things I like about it. The one piece I'm not
totally following is the porches and the street oriented design. I get it that the boulevard
meets that. Can you go through the product that doesn't meet the standard, like that
doesn't really have a porch or what I guess our internal staff considers to be the
appropriate type of porch.
Koeckeritz: I think -- so, let's go to -- we have -- this is the front to the one bedroom,
one bath, duplexes, which front along the street and these I believe -- and we have not
had any recent conversations. We actually thought that these generally complied and
that we were in pretty good shape and we would say that this generally complies with
the street oriented design. I think that Sonya may have a different view on it, but it does
have the front entryway, walking in there fronting up to the street. There is the parallel
parking in front of it. I also think, Council Member Strader, that some of it is -- we
focused on the boulevard versus some of the other areas maybe don't. We really have
focused on trying to meet the Ten Mile Plan through this area, but given the constraints
of the lot we couldn't do two boulevards or other things of that nature that might be
called for in the TMISAP.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: I mean just to play Devil's advocate. So, it looks denser to me along the
boulevard; right? And, you know, this is probably one area where I would advocate for a
little bit more density, because to your point this touches our two bus lines. This is in a
transportation corridor. This is an area that we have planned to have more density. You
know, would you -- you know, I guess just curious. So, how many single family homes,
you know, sort of don't meet that standard? And, then, Mr. Mayor, at some point if you
permit staff to, you know, kind of comment a little bit back on -- on the single family
Meridian City Council Work Session
May 2,2023
Page 15 of 59
product and what changes could be made to better meet the Ten Mile Specific
recommendations.
Koeckeritz: Mayor, Council Woman Strader, so we have a row of -- we -- this was found
to be from Baron, really, the best planning mix, but we have a row of town -- ah. We
have -- this one works best. We have our row of townhomes all the way down that
eastern boundary, which is a little more dense and there is 42 townhome units in total.
Then there are 56 one bedroom, one bath, duplexes, 18 of the two bedroom, two bath,
bungalows and six three bedroom, two bath, bungalows. Remembering that this is the
sort of community where Baron has tried to focus on being able to -- it's sort of the next
step up from your first rental community that you live in maybe when you get out of
college or a lot of the people that live here are baby boomers, who are retiring, who
don't want home ownership, but they want to be able to live that way and so that's how
this unit mix was ultimately settled on is that it seemed to make the most sense to
appeal to the widest variety of people. But -- and that's where we ended up with this.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: One more question for the applicant and, then, if it's possible, if staff has any
further comment about the design guideline.
Simison: Staff is welcome to weigh in at any point in time.
Strader: Perfect. I guess what -- hold on. I'm just trying to find where I wrote it down.
Oh. You mentioned a variety of price points. Can you elaborate about that? What is
the -- you don't have to tell us the exact prices. I wouldn't expect you to share that type
of information. But what's the sort of differential between the different products
expected to be -- understanding it's a projection and not something that we would hold
you to, but we are very interested in increasing the range of housing options in Meridian
and we are focusing on affordability and that middle housing is a gap for us. So, if you
could comment on that.
Koeckeritz: Mayor Simison, Commissioner -- Council Member Strader, I will actually let
-- Greg Hector is going to be speaking later and I will let him address that.
Strader: Fair enough.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: Looking at me, so you always know I will have a question.
Simison: I know where I'm going first on almost every applicant, so --
Meridian City Council Work Session
May 2,2023
Page 16 of 59
Perreault: Thank you, Council Woman Strader. You did get several of my questions
answered through -- through the ones that you had. So, I wanted to talk a little bit about
the ratio of one bedroom to the two and three bedrooms and kind of how you came to
the determination of what was -- what would work in this area. Obviously, this area of
the valley tends to have more families that move into it in general. Just curious if you
can comment on the ratio and -- and whether the statistics that were used -- because
there -- they are a large corporation that does this in a variety of locations -- if the
statistics that were used for determining those were based on our local market or not
and/or if it was just a matter of limited geography that really led towards that ratio. And,
then, also, second question along with that, is very familiar with build to rent projects
and no matter whether it's individual units, multi-family apartments, whatever it is, there
is a higher number of -- of -- of vehicles, because, you know, folks tend to co-lease
together, even if -- even if a property management company doesn't allow for
subleasing, you -- you do tend to see more vehicles per unit. So, if you can address
that with there only being 12 additional spaces.
Koeckeritz: Mayor, Council Member Perreault, I will start with your second question
first. As far as parking goes, there are the additional 12 spaces. One thing that is not
included and cannot be included is the -- every one of the townhomes, in addition to the
internal parking, they do have an apron that would allow two additional parking spaces.
Those don't count under the city code. But those -- there are additional parking spaces
in that way and so when you take that 48 times two, that actually would come to 96
additional -- potentially additional spaces on this, which really does help alleviate some
of the parking concerns and issues there. As far as the ratio of units, I -- there -- I think
that several things went into deciding on this particular unit mix. One is that those are
very popular with the -- the younger individuals who are looking to move into this area
with all of the new development going on along the interstate, Paylocity and some of
those other tech companies that are coming in, those are people who are making -- who
are -- tend to be tech workers, a little bit younger, oftentimes I'm taking these first jobs.
They are single. They want sort of -- more of a free standing place, but they aren't
ready for -- and this way they can really be on their own for singles and just couples.
And, then, the bigger ones do tend to have more families in them. But across the board
in all of Baron's developments they have found that there really are fewer families and
young kids in these developments than what -- than what would exist in other types of
similar developments. But also I know that we have both Greg Hector and, then, Matt
Riggs, one of the owners, is here and they can both speak to you on that as well.
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: A question, please. Thank you. Yeah. That -- that being said, tell us, then,
about the -- the playground as an amenity versus maybe having a different amenity that
would gear more towards who you believe will rent the units.
Koeckeritz: Mayor, Council Member Perreault, although that is true that we think that it
will be -- there will be fewer, I think it's -- they believe it's important to have amenities
that speak to everyone and this is one that -- whether there is five kids or 15 kids that
Meridian City Council Work Session
May 2,2023
Page 17 of 59
it's a great amenity to have and that also there are amenities -- there is things like the
community gardens and the pool with the lounge area and the hot tub that speak more
to the higher end also. And to kids. But also the picture of the pool and the hot tub it
looks more grown up than in some other places.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Questions, Elizabeth. For the -- the street on the east side, that is the
backloaded garages; is that correct? Did I get that right?
Koeckeritz: It is. Yes.
Hoaglun: And what -- do we -- do we have adequate distance from the garage door to
the street to park a vehicle or is that a different arrangement there?
Koeckeritz: There -- Mayor, Commission -- Council Member Hoaglun, there is adequate
space to park there.
Hoaglun: And follow up, Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: And for the -- the easement that you are getting -- or however you are dealing
with the property to connect to Aviator and -- and in that area, are you working with the
developer timingwise? How will this development phase and be created and, you know,
we know what we have approved over there to the north and also to the east, but timing
of that's kind of critical for everything to work together. Are you guys talking about that
or where -- where -- what's the plan for that?
Koeckeritz: Mayor, Council Member Hoaglun, we are. We have been exchanging
drafts of contracts all week and all last week with the developer to the north who is
ready to start moving as soon as they possibly can, because they are really the key for
getting Aviator Street extended to their property and, then, crossing the drain so it
continues on. But those have been ongoing discussions and our office has been
working on contracts for it.
Simison: Council, any additional questions for the applicant?
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Thank you. Can you just address the language that you all requested within
the Public Works section that -- I don't remember now. 2.8.13 1 believe.
Meridian City Council Work Session
May 2,2023
Page 18 of 59
Koeckeritz: Mayor, Council Member Strader, absolutely. So, that was at a request,
because that is how we have been able to -- in the past we have had this condition
amended in slightly different ways that have been approved, but this is how it's actually
worked, at least with Baron and with the Public Works Department, is this -- that's the
point at which they are approving the developments before that -- that you cannot
receive your C of O until the final plat is filed and this just sort of clarifies some of what
has actually been going on in practice with them.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Thanks. That's helpful. So, it sounds like maybe the standard language
doesn't really reflect the facts on the ground is kind of what you are saying.
Koeckeritz: I -- at least as far as the Baron ones go I would agree with that.
Strader: Thank you.
Simison: Any additional questions? All right. Thank you very much. Mr. Clerk, do we
have anyone signed up to provide testimony on this item?
Johnson: Mr. Mayor, we did not.
Simison: Okay. Is there anybody present that would like to provide testimony on this
item. If you would like to come forward. And if there is anybody online that would like to
provide testimony, please, use the raise your hand feature. If you would state your
name and address for the record.
Luke: Thank you. My name is Susan Luke and I am one of the founders and
administrators for Compass Public Charter School. So, I just have a couple of
questions maybe to -- that we have thought about. We are very excited to have
neighbors and to have such a beautiful neighbor. We are excited about that. As you
know, Aviator Street is a congestion issue and so our thought would be -- we didn't
know if the city would put up no parking signs on the side of that road to help with the
traffic flow while the construction is going on, but particularly when we get to our arrival
and our dismissal, I'm a little bit nervous for my elementary kids walking down that
sidewalk while we have construction going on. And, then, the other thought -- I'm not
sure how this -- and maybe this is something that I'm not aware of that I need to go
through a different outlet, but the -- the little road that connects to what we already use
as our bus lane, is long -- just wondering if that would have a stop sign for sure, so that
we have our buses that go from Franklin into our loop, if they would have the right of
way, instead of the traffic coming out of the -- the new development. So, those are my
only thoughts.
Meridian City Council Work Session
May 2,2023
Page 19 of 59
Simison: We do have Kristy Inselman from ACHD on. I don't know if she can speak
directly to those, if those would be comments afterwards.
Inselman: Mr. -- Mr. -- sorry. I have a delay. Mr. Mayor, this is Kristy from ACHD. Can
she re-specify what her requests are? I couldn't hear very well.
Luke: So, our -- our concern is just about the -- the traffic -- the allowable parking on
the sides of Aviator Street. So, right now there is a partial bike lane, but there is no part
-- there is no signs that indicate no parking. So, we get a lot of vehicles from the
apartments and construction vehicles that park along that road and as we increase
construction, our concern is that we won't have the ability to use that road for the traffic
that we need for dismissal, for parent pick-up, and for our students who use the back
parking lot to park at the school. Then my second concern is the -- the little road that
connects the development to the road that we use for our buses that come off of
Franklin, if the buses would have the right of way and the people coming out -- the
vehicles coming out of the subdivision, if they would have the stop sign.
Inselman: Okay. Sorry. Now I think I have got my audio under control. It was being
kind of a pain. So, I can -- I need to take a look at Aviator to see if no parking is allowed
there, if that is the setup. I can have our traffic look at that. If -- if no parking is
supposed to be on the street due to on-street signed bike lanes, then, we should have it
signed that way. So, I can have our traffic division take a look at that. And as far as a
stop sign from this development -- because it looks like it -- it stubs to property adjacent
to them and not through to where the school is going, if I'm looking at this correctly,
when that extension goes through we would work with the adjacent development on
their design and likely have some type of stop control, depending on what -- what's
being proposed there. It's hard for me to comment on a future connection to the
driveway without that develop -- that -- that property being redeveloped.
Luke: Thank you. That addresses my issues.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Just -- Susan, if you don't mind, I want to make sure we are talking about the
same things --
Luke: Okay.
Hoaglun: -- and we are not in different places. So, in that lower left of the map that we
see up on the screen, which comes off of Franklin and you got the two trees kind of in
the middle of that street, so it's the far western edge of that lower flag of the long sided
L -- so you are talking about if someone comes off of Franklin and is going to the school
making that turn, you want that street coming out of the development to have some sort
of stop?
Meridian City Council Work Session
May 2,2023
Page 20 of 59
Luke: Yes. That's what I was thinking. Because our buses come off of Franklin,
because it's a right -- that right turn only and it would be really challenging for us to have
to have the buses stop, instead of having them have the right of way.
Hoaglun: Right. And that's something we can ask the applicant, because I think those
are -- that's a private street. So, we can -- we can talk to the applicant about that, get
their input, so --
Luke: Thank you.
Simison: Thank you.
Luke: Thank you.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: Ma'am, would you mind coming back up. Ma'am? Sorry.
Luke: I have first grade voices in my brain, so --
Perreault: Thank you very much for being here.
Luke: You are welcome.
Perreault: We have had a lot of development along this corridor as you know and I
have lived in this area just behind Compass for 12 years. Very familiar with the traffic
flows through here. Just curious if you could share with us -- if there is anything else
that you are having concerns with -- with, of course, this application, which is going to
directly connect to the school, which is kind of unique. It's very rare to have schools that
have two roads that come off of major arterials go into the -- essentially school property.
Oftentimes they go around, but this -- this -- this, you know, really coming into the
school property in a sense. Can you talk to us about concerns that you have with
additional traffic for your school and your students or anything -- is there anything else
that you want to share with us in this regard? Because we do have two other
developments that are going to be using Aviator beside this that are being built.
Luke: So, my two other thoughts would be the railroad that is just north of Aviator Street
on Black Cat, having that every person stop is problematic. An arm would be a whole
lot better, so that the traffic is -- it flows a little bit easier. And, then, we have worked
really really hard with our stakeholders at the school to ask them to turn right onto Black
Cat from Aviator, so that they are not turning left to go south and we don't have control
like we wish we did, but we are going to have even less control and so if that really is an
issue, then, I would propose some kind of ACHD cone or barrier or something, so it's
not available for people to turn left, because that's the part that's going to get pretty
Meridian City Council Work Session
May 2,2023
Page 21 of 59
tricky pretty fast is if we have the railroad where everybody's stopping and, then, we
have current cars turning left, right -- left and right, that's going to be pretty crazy.
Perreault: Thank you very much.
Luke: You are welcome. Thank you.
Simison: Thank you. Is there anybody else that would like to provide testimony on this
item? Okay. Then -- are you testifying? Are you the applicant to close? I'm inviting the
applicant up to close, then, if we have no one further to testify. Be the applicant with
their ten minutes for closure. It's a part of the applicant team. So, I'm inviting the
applicant to come up to close and use your ten minutes for those purposes.
Riggs: Okay. Yeah. Thanks, everyone. My name is Matthew Riggs. 529 West
Fordham in Eagle. A couple of things I wanted to cover. Thank you, Elizabeth, and --
and staff for doing so much work on this so far. Some questions were brought up that I
think, you know, I could speak to pretty well. Before I get there, you know, Elizabeth
spent some time on our other two projects here that we have delivered the first phases
on and she emphasized those awards, because they are pretty meaningful. You know,
that was really recognized -- the Black Cat and Chinden site was recognized, you know,
by our peers as really the premier rental community in the state of Idaho and we are
really proud of it being the first one we have done and the first of hopefully, you know,
multiple, multiple that we will do in the city of Meridian. So, just want to say, you know,
and highlight that. It was similar to these projects, this one and, then, the next one we
are talking about tonight, it was a lot of planning and a lot of -- a lot of man hours that
went into these projects and I think what's coming out the other end relative to Bill and
Sonya and their team is -- is really quality elevated stuff. So, that's what we have tried
to produce here in this Modern Craftsman brand. It is, you know, a wide range of rental
options. You know, it's probably pushing 500 dollars from the entry level rental unit up
to the premier largest units, so things have gotten more expensive here. You know, we
have owned and operated the Red Tail apartments in Meridian for the last -- you know,
push in five years now and really proud of that project and -- and thought that there was
a way to complement the existing housing stock here with this Modern Craftsman stuff.
So, on Black Cat and Chinden and on Ten Mile and Pine, our other two sites, they really
opened up and live on the ground quite nicely. You know, each building on this it's -- it's
pretty subtle on -- on this site plan, but each building is oriented and jogs in a way that
even between buildings it feels like you have, you know, boutique pocket parks and --
and really it's just a nice experience getting from your car to the -- to the front of the
door. You know, add our other two sites and this probably speaks to the front porch
question, you know, and I think our intent there is absolutely to -- to provide a livable,
usable, you know, in code and within standard size of porch and, you know, to the -- to
the end that we are -- we are actually putting spigots on the front of these homes and on
the first 70 leases that we have signed across our two communities so far got about 50
people living on those other two sites, they are using the front porches a lot. There is --
there is chairs, there is, you know, all sorts of plants and other stuff on -- on those and
that is absolutely -- absolutely the intent here as well, you know, as it relates to the
Meridian City Council Work Session
May 2,2023
Page 22 of 59
specific plan area, you know, I don't know the detail like our team and I think that was
what we were alluding to with staff, that if anything is -- you know, needs to be
enhanced relative to what we have already put on the ground and tweaks need to be
made, we would -- we would be standing by to make those. On the unit mix side -- that
was another good question. You know, we are seeing, like Elizabeth has said, a pretty
broad range of -- of consumers and residents, if you will. You have a lot of medical
profession people moving in, you know, a lot of nurses at that side of things. We have
seen quite a few graduate students lease up at Ten Mile and Pine, in our other project
so far. You know, a lot of transitioning people that are new to town have town -- have
homes under construction and, then, a lot of -- a lot of the baby boomer that move down
that has family in the area, that's here maybe part time around the year maybe has an
RV and, you know, gets away during the summer, what have you. That -- that's a pretty
common profile and that is where a lot of the amenity stuff and -- and our focus there
has integrated, okay, you know, what does the young family and, you know, young
woman who works, you know, with us watching our three kids on the weekends and --
and -- and every evening, right, so she -- she is a consumer of this product along with
her grandparents. So, the -- the tot lot, the playgrounds I -- I think are something that
are integral that -- that we would want on all of our sites. You know, the grandparent
side of this is -- is -- is pretty key and I think that they like the ability to -- you know, to
have -- to have their grandchildren over. Same goes for the -- you know, the newly
forming households or growing households that are living in this type of community, you
know, that maybe don't want, you know, a second or third story apartment, but aren't
quite ready for home ownership. This is perfect for them. You know, the dog owners,
it's perfect for them. All these -- all these units have dog doors and they are being used
on all of our projects so far. You know, the pool even has a zero entry. So, our -- our
operations and product team has gotten into the demographics of who is using it, what
do they like about it and there our Red Tail apartments project has zero entry pool and it
is a major hit and so that leads to, hey, the community, the market is saying these type
of things, albeit, you know, additive in cost, these type of things are what the consumer
wants. So, you know, we are adding these. We are really not, you know, cutting
corners on what's being delivered here. You know, I -- I -- I would say and I would
stress that it -- it -- it's a walkable pedestrian friendly community that -- that -- that opens
up, you know, quite a bit for internal -- you don't need to leave the site living and, then,
you have a mile down the road all sorts of services and growth. So, you know, this is a
good option in our mind for the -- the people that are moving into town and that are, you
know, going to work every day, you know, several miles either to the east or to the west.
I mean we have seen over the last year what's -- what's been approved in this area in
this corridor, you know, from the employment side, you know, to the south side of
Franklin and we just think this is going to be, you know, one of those projects big
employers, you know, drive through when they are thinking about Meridian as a place to
call home. So, we are proud of it. You know, we do think it -- it lives well. You know, I
guess traffic was another -- another point. You know, I -- I would say on -- on the -- the
Franklin access, you know, that -- that small parcel on the -- on the southwest side of
the site, you know, we are fortunate enough to -- to buy that from the school, you know,
knowing that long term the best route for them we believed would be to have, you know,
their bus route go through that area. There is another site that is, you know, owned and
Meridian City Council Work Session
May 2,2023
Page 23 of 59
-- and is an operating business right now. So, I think that's down the road. But, you
know, I -- I would absolutely be on board with, you know, traffic -- traffic calming
stopping and -- and definitely giving right of way to, you know, school buses over
residents getting out of the community that way. Up on Aviator, you know, like it's been
noted, that the -- the area is changing. We are -- we are watching closely what our
neighbors are doing and planning. We think this, you know, is a good compliment to
that and -- you know, and we will -- we will be standing by. You know, I -- I would -- I
would be fully in agreement about, you know, no parking along Aviator, but that's,
obviously, not my department. So, appreciate the monologue and enduring it here and I
guess I will -- I will stand for any questions or, Elizabeth, you want to jump up here?
Simison: You have two minutes left.
Riggs: Thanks.
Simison: You want to --
Koeckeritz: Mayor, Council Members, I actually just wanted to answer really one,
maybe two questions that were raised. Council Member Perreault, one of the questions
that was raised was about the school. If you look here -- I don't know that I have a great
picture of it, but there is a full -- the sunset, sunset, sunset, sunrise landscaping is
adjacent to our parcel -- adjacent to the Baron parcel and, then, next to that is the
school parcel where there is the school bus turnaround and so while, of course, Baron
would be willing and able to put in any sort of traffic calming or stop sign that they could,
the real parcel is the one next to us at the time that that goes to develop, because right
now we don't have the ability to go in there, obviously, and make them put a stop sign
on there. Also there is -- just the one last thing is that I know that Aviator Street gets
really busy, but when you really dig into the traffic impact study it really shows that the
only -- the only time that there is real problems with it are at the morning drop off and
towards the afternoon drop off and other than that all of the intersections are operating
appropriately. There is a plan to eventually widen and do work on Black Cat in front of
the school and all along this area. Right now it's difficult -- it's not something where you
go in and do an easy restriping, because there are really big -- the great big huge
transmission power poles are right there on Black Cat, which makes it really difficult to
do any sort of quick fixes. But, really, the only time that there is issues with these
intersections is at -- really it's the morning drop off hour when people turn into the school
and, then, they try to leave and make a left turn onto Black Cat out. And with that I
would stand for any final questions.
Simison: Thank you. Council, additional questions for the applicant?
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Meridian City Council Work Session
May 2,2023
Page 24 of 59
Perreault: Could you bring up the -- the maps again? In the two that I have seen the --
the sunrise landscape parcel is -- is -- that there is a Compass piece that sits in between
yours and the Sunrise -- Sunrise landscaping. Is that not what I'm seeing on here?
Plus the other -- I believe it also was on a couple of other -- maybe not in your
presentation, but in the -- in the file there is a map that shows its location.
Koeckeritz: Mayor, Council Member Perreault -- do you have a good picture of that,
Sonya, more zoomed out? I don't know that we do. I know that in coming in from the
corner I may be mixing up a couple parcels. On the corner I believe there is a highway
-- an Idaho Power substation and, then, there is one or two -- it may be the Compass
parcel. It may be -- I think maybe there is the -- you know, I can't speak directly to it. I
feel like there is three parcels along there. One of them is the school's, one of them is a
landscaping and the other one I didn't -- I was not aware of what it was, but it sounds
like it's the Compass one. Whatever it is is the school -- that school right of way is not
directly adjacent to this property. That school bus driveway. There is something
between the school bus driveway and the Baron property. There you go.
Parsons: Mayor, Council, there is actually three parcels between this property and the
Compass Charter School. Bus access. So, I have looked at our -- that already for you.
Simison: Council, any additional questions for the applicant?
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: Just a short one. Elizabeth, is the -- the earlier comment about the private
streets being in a common lot per the UDC, is -- is that matter resolved in how you are
going to proceed or is the reference to an easement the plan?
Koeckeritz: Mayor, Council Member Borton, we are going to put them in a common lot.
Borton: Okay. Okay. Good. The last one is an easy one, too. There is reference -- the
condition of approval and Sonya referenced it was incorporation of public art. I was
curious if you had preliminary ideas with your team as to what you might want to provide
and where.
Koeckeritz: Mayor, Council Member Borton, yes, there have been preliminary
discussions and it's anticipated that -- and they are just still -- they are very preliminary
at this point in time, but there has been talk about things like small fountains near the
entranceway, maybe getting together with the Compass School, having some sort of
children sort of decorated tiles. Like there is just sort of -- there is a lot of things out
there right now, but there definitely is the plan for public art on this and it likely will be
something as you come in off of Aviator. There may also be something coming in off of
Franklin. But it will make a lot of sense and there is a little bit more space in there.
Meridian City Council Work Session
May 2,2023
Page 25 of 59
Borton: Okay. And, Mr. Mayor, I understand there is work to be done on it. That
Condition 1.1.D, as in dog, references that. I think it has some good language which
provides some pretty firm sideboards on what's to be provided, at least some of the
intent behind it. So, that satisfies my concern for sure. Thank you.
Simison: Thank you.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: So, when I -- I have asked this question of -- of every application that's come
in that has homes that are attached, duplexes, multi-family, pretty much any
development that doesn't have a significant amount of space between the units with --
and with private streets, which are much more narrow. On a daily basis in any small
community like this we have got moving trucks, trash trucks, HVAC vehicles, landscape
companies -- I mean there is -- I live in a small patio home community and we have
large trucks or vehicles from businesses like that multiple times a day. Norco, you
know, delivering the -- the filters. How do you propose to handle that when -- like do
you have spaces for those vehicles to come in and park, access, turn around, and and -- and I want to hopefully hear more from our fire department, too, on that. But but that is a regular part of daily life and -- and there are vans and buses that come in
from those sort of vendors constantly. So, I'm curious how that will be handled and how
they will have locations to stop and park that won't block the -- the parking spaces for
the residents.
Koeckeritz: Mayor, Council Member Perreault, thank you. Good -- really good
question. There -- actually, the way this is developed is there is that you -- there is sort
of -- you can drive around or near to each of these areas. Like it's almost like a block at
the top, then, you can get to everything off the middle and, then, again, at the bottom
with all the different accesses and private drives and, then, the experience that they
have had with people leaving during the day, people -- less people being there at
different times that that has been something that they have been able to work through,
that it has not created any sort of huge problems in their experience. These roads have
also all been -- they were all initially approved or talked to the fire department about it.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: Would -- would it be okay if -- if I asked Chief Blume to share some
comments with us? So, the -- the note that the Fire Department put into the file says
that they can't address -- let's see. It says they are unable to maintain acceptable
response times in this neighborhood because of locations of the fire stations. Could you
share with us your thoughts on servicing this community, including if there are any
Meridian City Council Work Session
May 2,2023
Page 26 of 59
potential concerns with vehicles being parked in the wrong location and/or the street
with us, please?
Blume: Council Woman Perreault, yes, as far as the response times are concerned, the
City of Meridian will be able to respond to this location. However, in consideration of
understanding what our total response times are, they are extended. That -- that does
not mean that a fire department will not -- our fire department will not respond to this
should it have an emergency that needs fire response, it's just an extended response.
That's what that means and this project has gone through the plans review, as long as
everything is within code -- Uniform Fire Code as it -- as it was approved through plans
review, it's -- it's acceptable for apparatus to service the location. So, as long as they
are compliant with those -- those requests there should be no problem with emergency
response vehicles responding to parking and navigating through this location.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: Specifically this -- the -- it's a street, but it -- I think it's kind of acting like an
alleyway there on the very east side. There is mention of there possibly being an issue
to access that. Is that -- is that going to be a concern? I can't remember if the issue
was the width or what the primary issue was, but I believe that was mentioned
specifically.
Blume: Council Woman Perreault, as I understand I'm not aware of any -- any limitation
or restriction at this time with the access -- the width on that east -- east side.
Perreault: Okay. Thank you.
Overton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Overton.
Overton: Elizabeth, I can't -- I can't help but look at this and think there is going to be
parking issues. I know you have told me that you think you are going to have enough
spots. Where you will own and maintain this, do you also enforce parking violations as
the owners on these private streets?
Koeckeritz: Mayor, Council Members --
Simison: Elizabeth, can you get to the mic.
Koeckeritz: Mayor, Council Member Overton, yes, there is an on-site -- one of the
things that Baron really does pride itself in is maintaining a high class, high end
community throughout and there is always an on-site -- well, there is -- during all
business hours and regular sort of hours that there would be leasing people there.
Meridian City Council Work Session
May 2,2023
Page 27 of 59
There will be someone on site and there is always a 24 hour number where you can get
vehicles moved if they do take their jobs of making this a very nice community, they
really take a lot of pride in that and they do take enforcement actions against people.
Allen: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Yes, Sonya.
Allen: If I can speak to the design requirements in the Ten Mile plan.
Simison: Yep.
Allen: So, I -- I just wanted to reiterate in response to Council Woman Strader's
comments earlier and concern that the proposed elevations are -- are currently not
consistent with the neighborhood -- traditional neighborhood design guidelines in the
plan. I did not hear anything from the applicant stating how they intended to comply
with those front porch requirements, so I am a little concerned that that -- that is on their
radar. So, I wanted to chat a little bit about that. So, the -- the -- the townhomes along
the eastern boundary of the site staff does feel that they are consistent with the
traditional neighborhood design guidelines. They have the front porches, the balconies,
the street oriented design. They are accessed from the rear from an alley. That's --
that's primarily the things we want to see in the Ten Mile area for traditional
neighborhood design. The unit -- most of the units have good pedestrian access to the
internal units. They have a good network of streets that are connected, alleys and
sidewalks. They have good building form and character. The primary facades relate to
the public spaces and pedestrian areas. They have a good mix of housing stock for
diversity in housing choices, architecture and design. They have nice streetscapes,
especially along the -- the main boulevard there. But staff is concerned about the
design of the -- specifically the units that front on the internal streets. Those do need to
have front porches at at least 30 percent of their -- their frontage. So, I just want to
make sure that we are on the same page with that and I -- I would specifically, just to
ensure that request that that language is added in DA Provision 1.11, to specifically
include front porches for the street facing units, not necessarily the internal ones, those
do have good pedestrian access. They don't necessarily need to have the street
oriented design. I mean preferably, you know, most of the units would have in -- in the
Ten Mile area. Staff isn't as concerned about those as long as the street facing units do
incorporate more street oriented design and the purpose for that is -- is getting -- getting
neighborhood -- neighbor, you know, more -- more -- what's the word I'm searching for?
Getting neighbors to be out and -- and be more connected with each other and -- and
that's kind of the intent of the -- the front porches. These -- these units have more
backyard areas and that's not really meeting the intent of the traditional neighborhood
design. So, that's all staff has. Thank you. Unless Bill has anything he would like to
add on that.
Parsons: Mayor, Members of the Council, you continue to get applications in this area
and as we -- I remember a -- a recent project where we had the same discussion and at
Meridian City Council Work Session
May 2,2023
Page 28 of 59
that -- at that particular hearing we did discuss that, you know, you have the code
requirements versus the comp plan. One is kind of the vision for the property, the other
are the -- the rules that you play by and the rules you follow and I don't want to diminish
anything that Sonya said, because she's correct. We want to get as close to
consistency with the comp plan as we can, but that may not always be the case and so
there are trade-offs. Just like the previous project that I brought before you, you look at
-- we have got to balance what the comp plan says, the density that we want and
certain design criteria that we want here and so the applicant's right, we have worked on
-- over a year on this particular project and if you would have seen what it was when we
first started you probably wouldn't be supporting the project. They have gone the extra
mile to try to incorporate as many elements as they possibly could. Now, to that point --
and the applicant's testimony tonight, their primary focus on this particular project is that
boulevard through the development and so in all fairness, the -- the comp plan wants
the front porches to build that neighborhood community identity to what Sonya was
speaking to, but also the UDC for multi-family developments wants private common
open space and that can be in the form of front porches or enclosed backyards. So, as
you take this under consideration tonight you have the ability, just like the previous
project, if you feel strongly that these -- this -- these elevations should incorporate front
porches and as Sonya mentioned to you you have the ability to include that in the DA
provision and move forward with that and we will make sure that that happens. If you
feel that there is a compromise here, you can certainly say the units along the boulevard
incorporate more front porches and less enclosed yards and, then, we can work with the
applicant on some of those units along the boulevard. It's -- it's striking that balance of
meeting the vision, but also meeting code. So, at least I wanted to put that -- that
thought into -- into all of your minds as you deliberate on this particular application.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Elizabeth, would you comment on that. It sounded like the developer was
open to working with staff to add some front porches and are you amenable to that on
the street fronting units? Could you caucus and let us know?
Koeckeritz: Yes. One minute I believe. Mayor, may I have one minute?
Simison: Yes.
Koeckeritz: Mayor Simison, Council Member Strader, absolutely. That's what they want
is to have that community feel and so especially along the boulevard to make some sort
of front porch -- a bigger front stoop, something along there where people really have a
place to set their chairs out to watch the world go by along that front boulevard
especially and we could certainly consider it and work with staff on that. Or not
consider. We can do that and work with staff to make sure they approve it.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Meridian City Council Work Session
May 2,2023
Page 29 of 59
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: That's great. So, it sounds like you are okay with making sure that all of the
housing that faces the boulevard will at least have a front porch. If you could work with
staff as well and some of the other street facing units, not necessarily on the boulevard,
but to the extent that you can work with them to try to incorporate that I think that would
be great. Thank you.
Koeckeritz: Thank you.
Simison: Council, additional questions for the applicant?
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: To that point if that's -- if that principle is incorporated into this -- these
conditions of approval -- this is a question for Sonya. I'm looking at 1.11, as in Frank,
that talks about the design review. Do you need a specific reference in that condition
that addresses what was just represented? Add a sentence to that or --
Allen: Mr. Mayor, Councilman Borton, yes, that's what I referenced, F there, including
and front porches for street facing units or if -- if you are just wanting the boulevard
facing units, then, clarify what you -- you know, what you would like to see there.
Borton: Okay.
Allen: Thank you.
Borton: Mr. Mayor, I don't have a clarification, I just wanted to make sure if that's one of
the elements that's going to be included, that -- whether it's Council Woman Strader or
somebody else wants to identify any other specifics so it can be included in that
condition.
Simison: Okay.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Yeah. I just think maybe during the discussion portion tonight we should
discuss if-- yeah, I personally would like to see it on all of the street fronting units ideally
or the vast majority of them, as opposed to just the boulevard, but I'm open -- I feel like
either way it's a movement in the right direction toward meeting the Ten Mile Specific
Plan. If any other Council Member has a strong opinion either way about, you know,
Meridian City Council Work Session
May 2,2023
Page 30 of 59
whether to just require it on the boulevard or if they want to see it on all of the street
fronting units.
Simison: And I would say we are in the discussion portion of -- of the conversation at
this point in time. So, there is no questions currently being directed towards the
applicant, so, Council, it's your -- your discussion or your motions.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: I'm happy to kick off a discussion for sure. I really like this project. It hits a lot
of the things that we would look for generally. I love that it is near our bus lines. I love
that it's near transportation, even multiple forms of transportation. It is near an
employment center with some higher paying jobs I think that would support, you know,
this kind of middle housing. We are definitely missing a lot of our middle income
housing, so this is a -- a good thing from that perspective. It sounds like it will come
very close to meeting the Ten Mile specific area plan. The schools have capacity. They
have come back with updated open space that now meets our standards and it sounds
like they are going to work with staff on the conceptual design. So, you know, I feel
really great about it. The one thing I -- I think we maybe should add would be to ask for
a front -- you know, front porches on the street facing units. I think that makes sense. If
I'm the only person that -- that cares really strongly about that I'm fine with just the ones
on the boulevard as well and I guess those are my comments to kick off discussion.
Overton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Overton.
Overton: I echo most of Council Member Strader's comments. I'm good either way on
the front porches on the non-boulevard facing units. It -- it looks like, really, you got one
or the other. You got a -- you got a front porch with a balcony or you got a backyard.
But you don't have both and you don't have none. So, each unit has one of those
amenities, but not both, if I'm not mistaken. So, I'm good with it the way it's laid out if
that's the way the Council decides to go. I think they have done a good job of spreading
one of those with each one of these units and based on how it's designed and how tight
that is in the boulevard compared to the others. I know it doesn't meet the specifics of
the Ten Mile plan, but I think it's about the best way that it fits into here, at least the way
I view it. So, I would support it the way it goes right now.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Meridian City Council Work Session
May 2,2023
Page 31 of 59
Hoaglun: I do have a question for staff real quick. If we push those and say porches
everywhere on front -- fronting road -- road access, are those backyards counted in any
of the open space calculations for our Ten Mile plan?
Allen: Mr. Mayor, Councilman Hoaglun, Council, no, they are not. That's private space,
not public.
Hoaglun: Okay. Just -- thank you, Sonya. Mr. Mayor, I just wanted to be sure about
that. I didn't think it was, but when you move things around things change. So, yeah.
Allen: Sorry.
Hoaglun: Go -- go ahead, Sonya.
Allen: Mr. Mayor, Councilman Hoaglun, I was just going to say the open space exhibit
there on the left, all that kind of blue areas are private space and that is not included.
All the green areas are included. Thank you.
Hoaglun: And Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: When we talk about the streets, the boulevard definitely meets to me that
definition of street and, then, having porches along that. The other sections, yes, they
are -- they are -- they are drivable, there will be parking. How many are there? That
would -- it's hard to tell from the layout. Does -- are they front porch worthy? If -- if -- if
that makes sense, you know, and it's -- it's one of those things that you go, yeah, is that
-- you want to have interaction and I think open space is important for that interaction
when people are out and if they are -- if there is a dog park, at the pool, at some of the
-- the playground, those are places also that -- that interaction takes place and I -- I do
like the boulevard having that feel and look and I think that's a great amenity to have for
-- for porches along that. The other -- I'm kind of like the others and I said, well, I -- I -- I
don't have to have it, you know. It's -- it's not -- not critical. I think this -- this is a -- a
great design. It's a great -- great amenities and it meets the -- the intent and the spirit of
everything that we are trying to accomplish. So, I'm -- I'm happy if we just end up with
on the boulevard, but it's not a -- not a drop dead if -- if somebody wants it everywhere,
any -- on every street that's -- that -- that it's facing.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Yeah. Why don't we -- why don't we require it on the boulevard. We can --
you know, these other streets, to your point, I mean they are not -- they are not as
prominent. If we require it on the boulevard it sort of meets the spirit and I could live
with that. A compromise.
Meridian City Council Work Session
May 2,2023
Page 32 of 59
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: I agree. Most of the -- just looking in detail here at the open space exhibit
and it looks to me like most of the front porches would be facing parking areas. Unlikely
folks are going to use that as a porch in general. So, I'm agreeable to only requiring on
the boulevard. I do have one quick question. I don't know who can answer it, if it's staff
or the applicant. The walkways that run along the boulevard in front of the units don't
look like they cross over -- and, again, this is just a -- this is a concept plan technically.
Don't look like they cross over the green space from the parking spot on the street to the
walkway in front of the units on either side and I'm wondering how that works with -- with
seniors and ADA accessibility. So, I don't know if that's something that staff will follow
up on and require and it's just not on the drawing, but are -- are individuals going to -- in
the wintertime walk over from the parking spot -- the parallel parking spot, are they
walking over that little bit of green space to get to the sidewalk to get to the unit?
Parsons: Mayor, Council, if -- if I'm understanding you correctly, you want to make sure
there is some -- you are trying to connect both sides of the road with one another with
crossings, if I'm --
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: No. I'm trying to make sure that someone can safely walk from a parking
spot to a unit and not have to go across --
Parsons: Oh, the parkway?
Perreault: -- the green space, not only does it affect the landscaping, but also if you are
carrying three bags of groceries and it's icy you are not going to -- you know, you don't
want to fall. I think it would be good to have sidewalk connections some -- more -- more
frequently along -- from the parallel parking over to the units on both sides versus just --
it looks like there are connections, but they are all the way at the north end and all the
way at the south end and none in between.
Allen: Mr. Mayor, Council Woman Perreault, are you -- are you speaking about the
parallel parking along the -- the boulevard and having some just little pedestrian
sidewalks over to the main sidewalk? Okay. Thank you. I just want to make sure I
understood that. If -- if you want that included, please, include that in your motion.
Thank you.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Meridian City Council Work Session
May 2,2023
Page 33 of 59
Strader: I -- I don't see where it's missing, but it's really a small picture. It's a very small
picture, so it's hard to see where exactly we would need to put in those additional -- I
guess small pathways. Council Woman Perreault could comment further.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: So, as you can see the little -- the circle in the middle, on the south you have
five -- five parallel parking spots on either side of the boulevard and in that stretch to get
from those five parallel spots to get over to the walkway there is -- there is no concrete
at all. You are -- all of those five spots are going to walk over the green space to get to
the sidewalk in front of the units. Do you see where it says parkway -- the word
parkway? Are you looking -- I'm looking at the open space revised exhibit. Sorry. I
have it up on my screen. I'm not looking at the presentation, so --
Allen: Mr. Mayor, if I may. That's not something that -- that our city code requires and
we don't typically require. If you -- if you want to we can, but it -- it would probably
require a lot of -- if you are wanting some for each vehicle space it would require quite a
few connections across there, but just wanted to clarify. Thanks.
Parsons: Mayor and Council, if I can just -- now that I understand what -- where you are
getting that, Council Woman Perreault, I appreciate that. So, certainly Sonya and I --
the zoning code defers to the building code when it comes to ADA compliance. So, as
the applicant designs their units, if some of those units are ADA units that front on the
boulevard, they will have to design ADA parking stalls and ramps to provide that access
to those units. So, that will be addressed as part of their plan review for the building
department and that's when you will have that additional walkway, truncated domes and
all of those things that come along with access into the units.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: Perhaps I shouldn't have used the words ADA, because there is technical
requirements on that. What I mean is just -- just an individual safely crossing over that
-- the landscaping to get to the front of the unit. There is not a place -- and it's -- it's not
-- it's not pulled up right now on the presentation screen. I was looking at the exhibit on
my own screen, so if -- on the land -- on the revised open space exhibit, if it's possible to
bring that up in the presentation screen that would be helpful. Like just -- it's by -- on its
own. I just pulled it from laserfiche.
Allen: Yeah. Hang on for a minute.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Meridian City Council Work Session
May 2,2023
Page 34 of 59
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: Sonya, on this screen that you have here can you zoom into the boulevard?
Allen: Mr. Mayor, Council Woman Perreault, give me just a moment here.
Perreault: There is a MEW that runs on either side of the parallel parking. There is no
pathway or -- or sidewalk connection from the parking spots to the units. Yes. So,
maybe one on that side, two on the other side. Correct. Same in the south. You can
have one in front -- so, you see on the duplexes where there is a sidewalk from the
duplex out to the -- or, excuse me, a -- you know, a connection. Yes. Correct. Right.
That's correct.
Simison: The -- the only challenge is if cars are parked there you can't access it.
Perreault: You can't what?
Simison: If cars are parked in those places you can't really access them, because you
are going to --
Perreault: Well, they are either going to walk across the landscaping or they are going
to walk on a piece of concrete. One or the other they are -- they are not going to go all
the way up to the -- somebody's not going to get out of their vehicle and walk all the way
up to the existing connection and all the way south to the other connection.
Simison: My point is if you have a car parked in front -- unless you are going to take out
the parking space -- if you have a car parked in front of where that is, no one else can
access it, so it may -- it may work for one car. If you connect -- if you are connecting it
right out there to where the parking is --
Perreault: Uh-huh.
Simison: -- but if someone parks there that is --
Perreault: We will let the applicant figure out how to design it, but there needs -- one
way or the other there needs to be concrete over that green space to get from the
parking spots to the sidewalk for safety purposes, in my opinion. However the applicant
wants to put that in and they can figure that out.
Parsons: Mayor and Council, if I -- if I may just help move the discussion along this
evening. Now, certainly I -- I like where you are -- where you are going. I think it makes
a lot of sense. That -- that may require loss of some of that parking to do that. I -- and
there is -- again, they are over parked, so I think -- if you keep the condition flexible,
allow the applicant to work with staff, I think we could probably come up with something
and -- and enhance that connectivity trying to get to the spirit of what you want us to do,
because right now looking at it to Mayor's point, it's -- it's difficult to pinpoint those exact
Meridian City Council Work Session
May 2,2023
Page 35 of 59
locations. But, again, I have had conversations with the applicant and they are open to
having more conversations with us and -- and working through some of those
comments. But I think we can achieve what you want.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: I am happy to try to close the discussion and make a motion, unless there is
any other concerns or -- okay. Mr. Mayor, I move that we close the public hearing.
Perreault: Second.
Simison: We have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. Is there any
discussion? If not, all in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay? The ayes have it
and the public hearing is closed.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: After considering all staff, applicant and public testimony, I move to approve
File No. H-2022-0079 as presented in the staff report for today's hearing date with some
modifications. So, under Condition 1.11, we will go ahead and modify that to require
front porches for the housing units that face the boulevard and we will add another
condition -- a new condition to -- for the applicant to work with staff on enhancing the
pedestrian connectivity from units directly to the boulevard. Hopefully that covers
Council Woman Perreault's point. And, then, the applicant will work with staff and
Compass Charter School to enhance the -- the safety through traffic calming or other
measures on the private streets that are within their control. If needed.
Borton: Second.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Do I have a second?
Borton: Second.
Simison: Have a motion and a second. Is there discussion? Council Woman
Perreault.
Perreault: I apologize. I didn't hear that second motion. Question about Condition
B.2.9. Applicant's agreeing to put that in the common lot, so that condition stays in staff
Meridian City Council Work Session
May 2,2023
Page 36 of 59
report? Okay. Just wanted to double check that -- that that was getting specifically
addressed. Thank you.
Simison: Okay. Is there further discussion on the motion? If not, Clerk will call the roll.
Roll Call: Hoaglun, yea; Borton, yea; Cavener, absent; Perreault, yea; Strader, yea;
Overton, yea.
Simison: All ayes. Motion carries and the item is agreed to.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
3. Public Hearing for Artisan Victory Market (H-2022-0066) by Kindi
Moosman, Horrocks Engineers, Inc., located at 2820, 2910, 2960,
2990 and 3020 S. Eagle Rd.
A. Request: Annexation and Zoning of 14.47 acres of land with the R-
15 (12.45 acres) and C-C (2.03 acres) zoning districts.
B Request: Preliminary Plat consisting of 5 building lots and 1
common lot on approximately 13.6 acres in the requested zoning
district.
C. Request: Conditional Use Permit for a multi-family development
consisting of 132 units on approximately 12.45 acres in the R-15
zoning district.
Simison: With that we will move on to the next item this evening, which is a public
hearing for Artisan Victory Market, H-2022-0066. We will open the public hearing with
staff comments.
Parsons: Thank you, Mayor. Yep. We can hold on.
Simison: Yeah. We will wait just second.
Parsons: All right. Thank you.
Simison: I guess technically we lost quorum'ish. Mr. Borton, are you still there? Mr.
Borton, are you still there? All right, Bill. You're up.
Parsons: Thank you, Mayor, Members of the Council. The last item on the agenda
tonight is the Artisan Victory Market application, which consists of annexation, a pre-
plat, conditional use permit and also a private street. So, this particular project is the
same applicant from the previous project. So, a lot of the same application materials
and information that's going to be shared with you will be similar to what you just heard,
minus the fact that this is not part of the TMISAP area. Yeah. So, we won't have to say
Meridian City Council Work Session
May 2,2023
Page 37 of 59
that over and over again for you in this presentation. So, you can see here that the --
the site consists of 14.47 acres of land. It's currently zoned RUT in Ada county and it's
located -- the physical addresses for all the -- the properties here that you see in your
screen is 2820, 2910, 2960 and 3020 South Eagle Road. Believe it or not, there is
some actual history on this particular property, even though it was in the county. In
2005 the city did approve a Comprehensive Plan map amendment to change this area
to mixed-use community and, then, in 2006 some of the property owners came forward
with -- as part of an annexation and that particular application was denied at that time.
So, comp plan amendment moved forward, annexation was denied by City Council,
because they didn't feel it was consistent with the plan. So, the applicant here -- again
is here tonight to discuss the development of this site. The current Comprehensive
Plan, as I mentioned to you, is mixed-use community. You can see here on the Future
Land Use Map to the left that the 14 acres is part of a larger mixed-use community area,
approximately 50 acres to be exact -- to be precise for you this evening. And so when
staff was analyzing this project for consistency with the Comprehensive Plan we did
look at the mix of uses in this larger area, the 50 acre site. So, starting from the north
and transitioning to the site, I thought it would be important for staff to share with the
Council what's actually developing in the area, so you can get the flavor of the uses in
the area. To the -- to the north there adjacent to the Ridenbauch Canal is a self storage
facility. There is an office park. There is some single family detached homes. R-8.
This particular project, which has the multi-family development and a small commercial
node. And, then, on the hard corner you have a daycare, retail, and, then, a restaurant
with a drive-through use and an assisted living facility and as you transition on to the
south side of Victory Road there is the Rite-Aid, another daycare facility and another
coffee shop with a drive through. So, overall when we annex -- analyze this project and
found it -- we found it consistent because of the mix of uses that are currently occurring
in the greater area. I would also mention to you that the desired density in a mixed-use
community area is between six and 15 dwelling units to the acre and the project before
you tonight is roughly 11 dwelling units to the acre, which is consistent with the comp
plan designation for residential component of the project as well. Also let the Council
know that I drove by the site here on the weekend and noticed that all the structure --
structures were removed from the property as well. So, now it's -- it's a clean slate. The
applicant's gone in and cleaned up the property, so it is ripe for in-fill. So, again, the
applicant is here to talk with you about annexing 14.47 acres. You can see they are
requesting two zoning designations. One is the C-C zone, which is approximately two --
2.1 acres and it's located in the southwest corner of the development and the remainder
is -- the applicant's requesting the R-15 zone. Preliminary plat consists of five buildable
lots and one common lot. So, again, there will be two commercial lots here in the
southwest corner and the rest of the -- there is three multi-family lots, again, zoned R-
15. The purpose of this graphic in front of you this evening is I wanted to show you the
connectivity that the applicant is proposing with this development. So, starting along
Eagle Road and, then, transitioning to the east, the -- the applicant is proposing an
access to Eagle Road and this is a shared driveway, essentially, which has been
approved by ACHD and, then, they are also proposing cross access with the adjacent
property to the south, which is the Inglewood Subdivision. This internal loop road here
is the private street that has been approved by the director to not only provide access to
Meridian City Council Work Session
May 2,2023
Page 38 of 59
some of the multi-family units, but it also provides -- opportunities to provide addressing
for those units, because of the number of units that they are proposing on the site and,
then, the hatched areas, again, are -- are parking areas or shared driveways, not
common -- not common driveways, just shared drives, like the Eagle Road access and,
then, you can see here with the adjacent developments along the north east and south
the city required stub streets to this road and so the applicant is proposing a segment of
a local -- local street to punch through with this development and that's what I have
highlighted here as well for you. And, then, as I mentioned to you, cross-access with
this property was reciprocated to this development. So, we are getting that. The main
reason why you see a small commercial node for this development is staff felt this -- this
was the appropriate transition for that occur, because of what was happening on the
property to the south with the daycare center. So, it made sense to create the
commercial node here along that area and, then, transition more with the multi-family to
the adjacent residential to the north and to the east. Here are the -- again, just like the
previous plan, the applicant has a mix of product types. A conditional use for that multi-
family development. And they show you -- highlight all the various different residential
types that they are proposing. This -- the comp plan does not specify to residential
types like the Ten Mile area does or other mixed-use -- traditional neighborhood
residential zones do. But in this particular case the applicant likes to have a mix of
residential types in their developments and staff is supportive of that and it is supported
by the Comprehensive Plan. The other thing that I wanted to point out on this graphic is
the commercial node here, you can see one of the tenants is -- is a retail use with a
drive through use and because staff viewed this as more of a neighborhood serving
commercial node, if you will, we wanted to limit the -- the amount of vehicular traffic in
the neighborhood, so we felt it appropriate to restrict this property to no more than one
drive through on the site to -- to limit that. We thought given the fact that this private
street does provide access to a majority of the units we have tried to -- we want to try to
minimize that Eagle Road access as much as possible and that's why it was so critical
to have this residential local street network happening with ACHD and making sure that
it doesn't allow too -- too much cut through traffic. I would also mention to the Council
that as part of both ACHD and city staff's recommendation, the applicant is and has
provided traffic calming in the north-south roadway that you see here running through
the development and that was some of the discussion that we had with the
Commission. So, that was very critical that that occurred. As I transition to the open
space with the project you will see that the new open space exhibit does show that
traffic calming as part of the -- the project. So, again, the applicant is -- this particular
project has -- the applicant's proposing 131 residential units, which includes 24 two-
story townhome units, 31 duplex units and 45 single family detached units and, then, of
course, their -- their main amenity is a centrally located clubhouse here as you come off
the Eagle Road entrance. Bedroom mix includes 62 one bedroom, 53 two bedroom and
16 three bedroom units. So, as I mentioned to you, just like any multi-family mixed-use
project, the applicant is required to provide a certain amount of open space. In this
particular case the code requires 1.93 acres of qualified open space. As we transition
from Commission to Council this evening the applicant was required to provide a
revised open space exhibit, which you see in the middle of the screen here and I'm
happy to report that the applicant's providing 2.47 acres of open space, which does
Meridian City Council Work Session
May 2,2023
Page 39 of 59
exceed the minimum standards of the code for the multi-family standards. I also want to
mention to you -- because this is a mixed-use development that the commercial portion
also has to provide some form of plaza or usable open space. So, staff is -- has
conditioned applicant to -- to provide that open space as part of their recommendation
and that will occur somewhere in this area. Details to be figured out when commercial
development is proposed for the site. Again, there are no tenants specified for the
commercial -- commercial portion yet, but because there is a multi-tenant building here
and that retail use there, we feel that there will be more than adequate commercial for
this particular development. The code requires 191 parking -- or, excuse me, 281 total
parking spaces for the site. The applicant and -- I'm sorry -- 191 for the multi-family and
the applicant's providing 274 in excess of code requirements. I would also mention to
the Council that this does not account for additional on-street parking that occur -- that
can occur along East Titanium Avenue, which is the north-south roadway here and,
then, the commercial component has in excess of 55 parking spaces. But keep in mind
that could be diminished with the requirement for the plaza area and some of additional
pedestrian connectivity through that area and the applicant's aware of that. So, I think,
really, for tonight's discussion it's -- it's just important to note that they exceed the code
by a great amount. And, then, also you can see the -- the open space graphic also
depicts all the interconnected pathways throughout the development, just like
envisioned and required for mixed-use developments and that represents some of the
blue walking paths here and, then, the red areas as well. And, then, also in the lower
right-hand corner you will have the fencing plan for the development. Just like the
previous project, the applicant's proposing similar amenities. So, you are going to be
looking at fitness facility, the clubhouse, swimming pool, children's play area, passive
open space area, the interconnected walking paths, community garden and, then, also
at the Planning and Zoning Commission hearing the applicant did commit to adding
electrical vehicles charging stations as part of this development as well and it was
conditioned by staff to do so. Here is the amenity plan. I won't spend a lot of time on
the building elevations, as we did that on the previous hearing, but, again, similar
architecture as to what you can expect on this site, as you can expect in the Ten Mile
area and, then, also two other projects that the applicant presented to you. In this
particular case the front porches aren't the main focal for -- as it's not required for a
mixed-use development, so I won't go into too many of those details. But, again, overall
staff believes that these elevations are consistent with the architectural standards
manual and we will verify that when we actually do the design review. So, I would
mention to the Council that the Commission did recommend approval at the April 6th
hearing. Testifying in favor was, of course, the applicant team. And if you had a chance
to look at the public record there was quite a bit of public testimony in opposition of this
particular project and most of the primary concerns stemmed around cut-through traffic,
the density, of course, just congestion in the area and the extension of South Titanium
Avenue. And, then, commenting at the hearing we had Lorie Delaney, Dave Bailey,
Matthew Riggs, Bev Montgomery, Jennifer Jenks, Ritis Skinner, Carl Koonz and Leann
Richardson. Again, these were residents of the assisted living facility that would -- they
were concerned with just public safety. So, I would also mention to you in looking at the
previous approvals with the Englewood Subdivision, which is the property directly to the
south, that developer was required to put in traffic calming as part of their project
Meridian City Council Work Session
May 2,2023
Page 40 of 59
through South Titanium Avenue and looking back at that public testimony on that project
it was clear that both the Commission and Council wanted that as well and looking at
the Google -- Google Maps this afternoon I can see where they have added an
additional pedestrian connection across East Titanium and I think that was to suffice for
their -- their traffic calming. But one thing that stood out for the Commission was that
this applicant and that southern property owner was required to work together and come
up with a strategy and I wanted to step back here. You can see in this open space
exhibit you can see where they have a chicane here where they -- they choked the road
down and, then, also at the intersection they have some bulb outs here to add that
traffic calming component to slow down traffic through there, as discussed at the
Planning and Zoning Commission. So, key changes -- or Commission changes,
anyways, to staffs recommendation, again, DA provision C was modified to allow the
applicant to get under construction prior to recording the plat. Again coordinate with the
southern property owner on the traffic calming, which they have and I'm sure they will
share that information with you tonight. And, then, just like the previous application,
Public Works general condition of approval 2.9 was modified to mimic the same
language as the previous project consistent with previous approvals. So, really, no
outstanding issues for tonight. I had a chance to go back and look at the public record
and we have not received any additional public comments on this application since the
Planning and Zoning Commission. Again, both staff and the Commission
recommended approval. I will conclude my presentation and stand for any additional
comments or questions you may have.
Simison: Thank you, Bill. I guess you get my questions and -- and these are directed
now to you, since you have said that this was staff level recommendations. Can you go
back to the site plan. That -- that one works right there. You know. You know,
personally I have had issues with putting commercial into residential locations, but now
we are putting commercial with drive-throughs into a residential location and, then, we
are going to put them out on private streets. Speaking as someone that lives in this
area, it depends upon what product goes in there. I'm not going back out on Eagle
Road. It's out -- at the entrance-exit there. I'm going to either go up to Easy Jet and
exit out on Easy Jet. I'm going to go south to Victory. Explain to me what the rationale
for having private streets, which are going to have to carry drive-through commercial
traffic, as compared to making that a public road until it connects out to the north-south
connect -- connection.
Parsons: Mayor, Council, I -- again, I appreciate the questions, because certainly when
we look at mixed-use, the intent is to try to get that where we can. Simply put, it's like --
like the last project; right? We -- we work with applicants. We try to come with workable
solutions -- or at least concepts that they -- they can bring forward. The questions you
brought up tonight were the same things that we -- conversations we had with the
applicant. When we originally started with this project our intent was to have
commercial along the entire Eagle Road frontage, so you would not have that. You
could actually bifurcate the two and have a logical extension of that. But in working with
the applicant and hearing some of their rationale, in their mind -- at least in the
discussions that we had and seeing whether it's sandwiched between two residential
Meridian City Council Work Session
May 2,2023
Page 41 of 59
portion to the north and a mixed-use development to the south, in their mind they felt it
would be difficult to carry that much commercial as part of this project and that's why
when I opened up my argument tonight -- or at least my opening remarks I wanted to at
least share with the -- the Council that there is more to this mixed-use area than just this
piece of property and that we should look at the entire context. Now, going back to your
initial question is that some of the comments that I brought up in the staff report trying to
mitigate for some of that. It's not always ideal that we do that and that's why I think the
applicant has an idea who they want to go here, they just can't share that information
with us. So, that's -- that's where staff has some of that comfort level where -- and that's
why it was important that no more than one drive through went through there, but with
some of the design concepts that I required the applicant to do as far as integrating the
commercial with the residential there, I was trying to mitigate some of those concerns,
because, you're right, typically it's hard to mesh and minimize the vehicular impact to
the adjacent neighborhood when you have a private street network. But in this
particular case, knowing what I know and -- and working with this applicant and they
have agreed with the conditions of approval, I think we can minimize some of those --
those comfort -- some of those concerns that you raised and try and -- and in staff's
opinion this is treated no differently than a commercial drive aisle. It's the same width.
So, that's where staffs rationale came in. It's like it -- we want cross-access, we want
these projects to integrate. This is all part of the same mixed-use development. So, we
did concede a little bit and was supportive of what the applicant proposed, is because of
the integration and some of the other design concepts that come along with this project
and the adjacent project.
Simison: And we -- you have answered my question. I -- I would say generally I would
not be supportive of this concept of putting -- you know, making the transit -- you know,
saying you need to put in commercial to make a transition when, frankly, you already
could make a transition without the commercial and leave it all private road network,
which, then, is going to eliminate noncommercial traffic into the area, which can also
eliminate other types of cut through traffic that we know -- it's going to happen. I mean
you have a commercial drive aisle, whatever you want to call it, but if you put a
commercial space into that location you are inviting traffic off of Eagle Road in and it -- it
will have to go through the development to exit in some other area and if you are going
to do that -- you know, I don't know what's better, slowing people down through private
street or putting an expectation that this is a car path to get out to where you want to go.
But that's what's going to happen, because you are not going to be able to turn left onto
Eagle Road out of this location generally and so you are going to have to go through it
depending on the commercial use, so -- but right now there is five people, so I'm not
voting, but if we lose one that -- this will become an issue, at least for me in the future,
so -- Council, additional questions for staff?
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Meridian City Council Work Session
May 2,2023
Page 42 of 59
Perreault: Thank you, Bill. This may just be because this is a -- the landscape plan is
just a rendering, it's not an engineered document, but the driveways on the attached
units on the very south side, that -- they are -- they are different sizes in the -- in the
photo, but just wanting to double check that all of those are, indeed, 20 feet long
driveways or more. And that's not just -- that's just a -- an element of the drawing.
Parsons: Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Woman Perreault, they are
conditioned to provide 20 feet, because I called out the same thing and they are a little
narrow and the applicant is aware of it.
Perreault: Okay. Thank you.
Simison: Councilman Overton.
Overton: Bill, could you just walk me through Titanium as it goes south? It doesn't look
on Google Maps -- unless it's been changed that it's at the same level of roadway as
what's coming out of this development. Is that just me looking at Google Maps and
trying to compare the two of them or -- I don't see curb, gutter, sidewalk. I guess there
is on Titanium. Is Titanium completed? Is it finished? The south portion?
Parsons: Mayor, Councilman Overton, yes, it's -- it's nearing completion or it is
completed at this point and that's why they have to extend it and that's why during the
Commission hearing there was -- and the public record had some -- so much public
testimony on that issue, because they did not want the road extended through there.
But to the Mayor's point, this is the most critical piece of the project, because if we didn't
have this, then, everyone's driving -- you are -- you are creating more of a situation
going on the private roads by not having this public street network going through here.
It could exacerbate the problem on the private streets, which we are trying to -- to give
people multiple ways out, so that we don't overload the private street system and that
other people can get in and out of here and get people to the light, either at Victory or
even Easy Jet out to the light on Eagle Road.
Overton: Yeah. I have been staring at this roadway plan for two days trying to figure
out which way I would go to get out of here or come in, because that's how I work.
Obviously you are going to want the light on Easy Jet. If you are going to go out on
Eagle Road you are going to go right out out of this development. But if you are going
to hit Victory you are going to go right next to that retirement center right down South
Titanium and that if you put on top of those apartments a drive through, your -- and not
knowing what drive through we are talking about, we are talking about a lot more traffic
adding on to what the apartments would bring. I mean -- yeah, sure, I mean Publisher
is going to get a little bit of traffic, but it looks like it's going to go primarily through that
section right now, which is just the retirement center. Am I looking at this correctly?
Parsons: So, you can see -- and I pulled up our -- our zoning map so you can see that
it is constructed. Yes, that was the concern and that's why we had the traffic calming.
Meridian City Council Work Session
May 2,2023
Page 43 of 59
Overton: Thank you.
Simison: Council, any additional questions for staff? Okay. We need to break or are
we good? Okay. Well, would the applicant like to come forward, please?
Koeckeritz: Good evening. Elizabeth Koeckeritz with Givens Pursley. 601 Bannock.
Representing the applicant developer in this case Baron Properties. With me tonight is
Matt Riggs, Greg Hector and members of the development staff. I first also on this one
-- this project has been going on for what appears to be years and so we really want to
thank Bill for hanging in there with us. I think over the last couple of years we have
worked with every single planner that the City of Meridian has. So, once again, there
were a lot of iterations, there was a lot of collaboration, and we think that we did
ultimately land on somewhere on a really good mix. To some of your points, Mayor, this
has gone from all commercial along the frontage to a planner who said, that's fine, take
out all the commercial. You don't need any commercial. To maybe do this little bit of
commercial. And now we have ended up with these two commercial pads and we think
that based on what's going on in the neighborhood, having the one larger pad and, then,
having one that's going to be smaller and it's more divisible into five or six, maybe seven
spaces, is a really good unit mix there and the -- especially the smaller one is really
going to bring in just a lot more of the sort of local traffic. Like that's more of the
accountant, bookkeepers, that sort of business and, then, the bigger one on the --
corner there is that cross-access, which was really important to provide, so that there is
really more of a direct flow down through that subdivision to the south, which is by and
large part commercial on the hard corner. It's a lot more commercial and, then, there is
the senior living facility adjacent to that, more in off of the corner of Eagle. So, going
through that, since we already have talked about all of this, I will skip through much of
this. So, looking at the site plan here, one of the things -- and you will be able to see it
maybe a little bit better when we get to the picture with the dots -- is the surrounding
zoning is R-15 and C-C to the south, R-8 to the north and R-4 to the east and one of the
things that we really looked at -- and the development team really looked at in this -- in
developing this one was recognizing that this did abut up against residential
neighborhoods and so all of the more intensive -- the two story buildings, the
townhomes are all located along Eagle Road or on the south where they go into that
more commercial, higher intensity uses and that's where the commercial is also located.
The home out to the -- on the northern boundary and on the eastern boundary, those
are all one story homes and that was very purposely done, so that they would
absolutely minimize the impact on the surrounding community. In fact, the homes on
the left -- on the east side, there is only one more residential lot, like single family lot
than there -- this -- our east side only has one more home than there are what they are
adding up to and so it really does go to minimize the impact on the neighbors, which
many of those homes are one and two story homes. As Bill mentioned, this is a few --
this is a mixed-use community area and the future land use map shows that it's really
been developed in large compliance with what you have suggested with a mixed-use
community area. To the north is the storage, then, there is an office park with an
accountant, a dentist, things of that nature. There is -- beneath that there is slightly
higher family -- higher density single family residential, which is R-8 zoned. Then there
Meridian City Council Work Session
May 2,2023
Page 44 of 59
is the multi-family community that we are proposing right now, followed by the daycare
and over 55 community, some other things going on on the hard corner and, then, Rite
Aid across the street and so when you look at this as an integrated whole, the one thing
that this development -- this community does not have is any sort of multi-family
residential, which is what I think makes it really appealing for this to go into this location,
because it really makes it all flow together. Okay. Once again, here is the dotted
picture. There is, again, the large variety of residential home styles made with the same
quality materials. There is the variety of roof lines and facades. The variation in
products. Here we have 24 townhome units, which are the lime green on the southern
and the western boundaries. We have 62 one bedroom, one bed, duplexes, which
makes it 31 buildings, which are in the purple along the north and along Titanium
primarily. We have -- there is 21 two bedroom, two bath, single units in red. There is 16
two bedroom, two bath, units with -- which also have a one car garage. Those are the
aqua blue on the east and, Council Member Perreault, to your question, yes, we are
making sure they are actually a little bit wider -- the drive aisles are a little bit wider.
They will fit all the standards. They are definitely more than 20. Maybe 24. I'm not
sure. But they will fit in there. And Fire has looked at it and has approved that. And,
then, there are eight three bedroom, two bath, singles in the royal blue and those are
located sort of south of the northern private street, which is Loon Lane. Here you can
see -- this is one of the bigger units, the three bedroom, two bath. It does come -- there
is eight of these. It's a full 1,300 square feet, which is quite large for this type of
development. There is two different roof lines shown here and the three exterior color
schemes. Again, these -- all the units come with the same high end amenities. Here,
again, is one of the one bedroom, one bath, duplexes that we have discussed and
almost half of the units are slated to be these one bedroom, one bath, duplex units.
They are really popular. The clubhouse. Again, it's a clubhouse with all of the high end
amenities that you would expect in a clubhouse of this nature. It has workspace, a
coffee bar, indoor gathering space, a Zoom room for meetings. There is a fitness
center. Heading outside there is a community pool with a hot tub, gazebos, and high
end furniture -- pool furniture. One thing we didn't have really much time to talk about
last time is the garages and carports and so there is -- we meet the code, obviously, and
there is -- so, there is at least one covered parking per unit. But, then, they also provide
detached garages and each garage has six garage bays and, then, at the end of each
garage are additional storage lockers and so there is an additional 16 storage lockers.
So, that's a place where people can store their Christmas -- you know, their Christmas
ornaments, their various -- their overflow. Their skis. Or are things of that nature.
Which makes -- which is just a really nice amenity that's being offered here. Again, the
community amenities. We have the qualified amenities, including quality of life, open
space, recreation and multi-modal. They do intend and have always intended on
putting in EV charging stations. That just got missed on the application. However, in
fact, what they do, knowing that EV is becoming more and more popular, is they start
with just two or three spaces, but the entire development is -- the infrastructure is put in,
so as the demand grows they are able to more easily just pop up those charging
stations in the future. So, as you come -- there is a dog park on the northern boundary
with the walking path. There is a tot lot adjacent to the swimming pool, which, again,
these don't tend to have a lot of kids, but as Mr. Riggs -- as Matt Riggs discussed in the
Meridian City Council Work Session
May 2,2023
Page 45 of 59
last one, whether you are a grandparent or a young person, it's really nice just to be
able to offer that sort of tot lot playground, especially in this location where you are not
directly adjacent up to a school where the kids can just run over and go play on the
equipment there. The green space located at the corner of Publisher and Titanium
includes a community garden and there will be a plaza space. Absolutely. We agree
with Bill that we need to get a plaza space between our commercial and our residential,
but we are waiting somewhat to see who is the ultimate end user tenant there in order
to best design that around everyone's respective needs. The interior amenities, again,
are the same as before. They are all very high end. They are very nice. They are the
things that you would want in your own home. Here is a parking exhibit. There is a total
of 274 parking spaces and if you look here, the covered garages are located in red.
The standalone parking garages. The open spaces are the aqua blue. The covered
parking -- the carports that are more open are in green. And, then, the internal garages
are royal blue. And so you can see there are quite a few homes with those internal
garages, as well as the rest of that parking on the property. This does not count and
cannot count any parking that's on Titanium Street where there will be the ability to have
parallel parking along that street. There is an additional also 55 commercial spaces --
parking spaces, which, depending on how that develops, that's more than what's
required by code currently, but we think it's important to have that extra parking and that
extra space. Open space. Here is the open space. One thing that we have added
since the last -- since we were in front of Planning and Zoning Commission is along the
eastern boundary, that we have added a walking path along there to sort of continue to
help with a lot of that connectivity. Also Bill had asked that we put in another -- another
connection and move our trash receptacle. That, of course, we can do and you can see
that there really are just a lot of walkways and pathways throughout here. With the
open space, again, there -- we meet -- we exceed the requirements. And, again, each
of these units has private open space that far exceeds what's required -- the 80 square
feet that's required by city code, ranging from -- the townhomes, again, have the
smallest, just with the 92 to 94 square feet, but the one bedrooms, their total patio yard
comes to 509 square feet. Two bedrooms have 598 square feet. The two bedrooms
with garage have 648 square feet and the three bedrooms have 681 square feet, which
makes -- which is just a really nice amenity for the individuals living here. Okay. Again,
we are three miles from this fire station. We have confirmed that all services and
utilities are available to the property. Traffic calming. This was a big point of discussion,
because many of the people at the senior center to the south and people to the north
were concerned about the fact that Titanium is a long street. So, we actually have --
since the exhibit that has been submitted to the city, we have actually added -- in
speaking with Bill over the last few days we have added additional traffic calming,
including there will be some -- and these are all, of course, subject to ACHD's approval.
But this is what we are now currently proposing is something really -- both at the
northern entrance that there would be a chicane and, then, at the southern entrance
that there would be that narrowing and it's really important -- we spoke with the property
owner of the senior center, the development team did, and talked to them about what
we could do to help slow down traffic going through there and I believe they are also
going to be looking at things on their own property that they could also be doing to
better mark the crosswalks for having a street go through the middle -- essentially the
Meridian City Council Work Session
May 2,2023
Page 46 of 59
middle of their project. So, there are now -- so, there is going to be at all -- each of the
entrances, including coming in from the east on Publisher, there will be the traffic
calming, the chicanes, the street narrowing and, then, there also will be bulb outs at the
main intersection there on the south that you can see. We will use tie -- like painted
crosswalks. If we could use raised sidewalks, raised crosswalks we would, but it's really
just working with ACHD to get in as much traffic calming as possible, because no one
wants this to become a really fast thoroughfare. So, roadway connectivity was part of
that big discussion and that it is really important that this roadway connect through.
Council Member Overton, to your question as to the percentages, like who is going to
go where and how would you get out of here. Well, we have our traffic engineers and
they tell us what they think people are -- how they are going to get out of there and
generally speaking -- ultimately whether you come out -- in and out of the entrance on
Eagle or you go up to Easy Jet and out, 65 percent of the traffic ends up going north,
ten percent go south out of there and 25 percent will be using the southern entrance out
onto Victory Road. And I think I got through a lot more of that.
Simison: If you can wrap up, please.
Koeckeritz: And that's it. The commercial we touched on and -- thank you. We will
stand for any questions. We are in full agreement with the staff's conditions of approval
and the Commission.
Simison: Thank you. Council, questions for the applicant?
Overton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Overton.
Overton: Elizabeth, I think you are pretty accurate on what I would expect to be on
percentages going north, south, east, west. My question is actually to you or to staff.
What type of drive through would be eligible to be in that location? For example, would
a restaurant, a Jack-in-the-Box be eligible, that's open until 2.00 in the morning or 24
hours a day?
Parsons: Mayor, Members of the Council, currently there is no prohibition on the type of
drive through. The DA just says that you can have up to one. But, again, looking at the
concept plan, looking at the -- the square footages on that building, we would anticipate
changes if that were the case. And I would also mention to Mayor and Council that this
drive through is not -- it's -- it's part of the concept plan, but they are still required to go
back to Planning and Zoning and get that approved. So, that was not part of this -- this
process at this time. And they are aware of that.
Overton: Okay. Thank you.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Meridian City Council Work Session
May 2,2023
Page 47 of 59
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: I don't have a question, but just an idea on the traffic calming. So, on the
landscape plan it shows -- of course, applicants when they submit renderings they
always show these big huge trees, like they are going to look like that right away and
they don't look like that for 15 years. I would recommend, if you actually do put some of
the larger trees, so we know that tree line streets significantly so slow traffic down. So,
maybe just consider -- I noticed on your landscape plan that the red trees are intended
to be kind of optimal size. They are larger. Maybe consider adding some of those
through the main street area on there. They -- they will -- in addition to the other
considerations you are making, I don't know if there is -- if there is physical space and
on -- you know, in there, but I -- it would be great if that did have a boulevard feel. I
don't know that there is space to do that, but the bulb outs I love. I think -- here in
downtown Meridian on Main Street we have several of them with landscaping in them
and I think they are not only beautiful to look at, but they also really do help with that 25
mile an hour speed limit. So, I thank you for adding that. I think that they -- they make
a significant difference and they also just make it -- give it some interest -- some visual
interest, too.
Koeckeritz: Mayor, Council Member Perreault, we absolutely can look at what sort of --
getting larger trees in there. We will work with the city forester on talking to them about
what we can get into those parkway strips.
Simison: Council, any additional questions for the applicant? Thank you very much. All
right. Mr. Clerk, do we have anyone signed up to provide testimony?
Johnson: Mr. Mayor, nobody signed up in advance.
Simison: Okay. Is there anybody here that would like to provide testimony on this item?
Or anybody online that would like to provide testimony, you can use the raise your hand
feature. No one online is raising their hand and no one in the audience is coming
forward. Council, would you like to talk more before we ask the applicant to close?
Would you like the applicant to come up and close?
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: I -- I have a few just concerns that I will state, so maybe you could address
those when you close or whatever. So, I -- we really struggle with mixed-use it. It's a
pain point for us. We are trying to work through that I think. But this is a really good
example of how like that integration of uses is really tough. I almost wish it said like
pedestrian integration of uses or something, because if it was something that was highly
walkable commercial that connected with the residential, it would make more sense.
Like where I'm struggling here with the drive through, I'm just having a really hard time
seeing how a drive through is a compatible use with a residential neighborhood that's
Meridian City Council Work Session
May 2,2023
Page 48 of 59
closed without some more buffering or something. So, I'm not surprised to hear that
you have been through so many iterations with planning, because it feels like the ways
to tackle it are sticking with residential only or, you know, putting commercial all along
Eagle Road and, then, that would give you the ability to have some sort of a different
kind of buffer -- accounting, bookkeeping, I'm not as concerned, but I -- I don't know.
So, I'm -- I'm struggling with that. I'm struggling with the drive through. I understand
that you would come back for -- for permitting for that separately, but I still don't feel
comfortable proceeding, because the -- the thresholds for that -- I feel like you are -- you
are pretty far down the line once you get to that point. This is different than the other
application for a few reasons; right? This is not near an employment center. This is not
near transportation. It is near Eagle Road, but is not near any type of other
transportation and we do have some overcrowded schools, especially in Mountain View.
I would say to the neighbor, though, for those who are listening and those who watch
later, in terms of what you could have ended up with in terms of multi-family, this is really
nothing compared to the density that it could have been. It could have been a three
story building that crammed a ton of apartments in. I mean at least these are
townhomes, duplexes, mostly single story all along, you know, where the
neighborhoods are, I -- I really do think this is -- if you are going to have multi-family this
is the optimal type of multi-family. I agree with Council Woman Perreault's point about
adding some more mature trees. I do -- it's -- you know, because we saw the -- the
application before and it maybe would have been better to change the order
strategically. I'm sure you couldn't control that. But now I'm like missing the boulevard.
Like I wish this had the boulevard now and I'm kind of bummed that we don't have that
same kind of a feel. I don't know. So, those are my thoughts. But just wanted to share
those before you get up to speak.
Overton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Overton.
Overton: Overall I think the development's fantastic. I really appreciate the fact that you
have taken into account the one stories on the north and on the east side, to blend into
the housing on each side. There -- there is -- the only thing I'm struggling with is in my
life I never wanted to be put in a position to approve a drive through to a residential and
I don't know that I could. So, I really like the residential piece. I'm okay with the
commercial piece. I'm not okay with the drive through aspect of the commercial piece.
Other than that I think you have done a fantastic job.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: I agree with my fellow Council on concerns over the drive through. I don't
think this is an ideal location and -- and just not a fan of folks driving on the private
streets for a variety of reasons to get out either direction. But I do have a question for
Bill. If I remember correctly, the applicant on the south had intended on putting a drive
Meridian City Council Work Session
May 2,2023
Page 49 of 59
through coffee spot right there on the hard corner and so I also am not a fan of
considering for that reason. I don't know how far along -- they were going to do a
daycare and a coffee drive through. I don't know how far along they are in that process,
but if that was the intent of this applicant to have a -- a business like that, I think it's
already going to be available to that neighborhood.
Parsons: Yeah. Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Woman Perreault, yes, the
Starbucks is on the hard corner and that CUP has been approved. But nothing has
started -- they haven't started construction of that -- that store yet.
Hoaglun: And Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Yeah. When you look at this, you know, you see things later, after
development has occurred and you have got to the north the storage units and, then,
you got Easy Jet and, then, we go R-8 and, you know, if it's like, boy, if we would have
really known things, have this -- everything shoved north and have drive through there
and, then, do the multi-family and -- and this -- I echo some of the comments. Yeah.
This is well done. Good amenities. The pictures look very familiar. It is -- it -- it's trying
to wrap my mind around a drive through on that and from what I understand, Elizabeth,
you said those streets are the same width as a typical ACHD public street, so that does
help. It's not a -- not a narrow street. Mayor said earlier -- I think, yeah, Easy Jet,
people are going to use that for the -- for the entrance and exit, especially if you are
living in that unit, unless you happen to be going out Victory or right turn on -- on Eagle
Road. Definitely wouldn't want to try left. I do try to find -- okay, on that drive through
and the way it's designed, it -- it -- it is a minimal impact to the -- to the neighborhood
with -- with the design. So, that's a good thing. And I thought, well, what if there is
something else there -- what if it's another daycare and, then, I thought, wait, traffic, I
mean anything you -- you go with that, it just makes it -- makes it difficult and so overall
good design, good amenities, all the things that you have done previously are -- are
high quality and I think working with the -- the senior facility there to the south to
mitigate the traffic speeds, things like that, is very helpful. Just -- yeah, that -- that --
that drive through just kind of makes you scratch your head a bit.
Simison: Any other comments? All right. Then I will ask the applicant to come forward
to close.
Koeckeritz: Mayor, Council Members, Elizabeth Koeckeritz still with Givens. So, one of
the things that we also struggled with, like many of you are, is the whole mixed-use
integration, because it is harder to have someone -- you either have someone who is
really good at commercial development and they do commercial development or you
have people that are really good at residential development and they overlap to a point,
but it's also -- it is, it's more difficult to really fuse the two together in these mixed-use
sort of developments. However, in this case we do feel like we did hit a good balance
for it. The one thing I'm hearing mostly are concerns about the drive through and that's
Meridian City Council Work Session
May 2,2023
Page 50 of 59
something where we would certainly be open to limiting in the DA the types of uses that
could have the drive through. Like there is certainly -- there is no intention of having a
fast food restaurant here. Also with the Starbucks going in on the corner and, then,
another coffee shop also on the corner, it just wouldn't make any sense to have that sort
of drive through and so that's something that we are certainly open to doing. If we had
to we could get rid of the drive through completely. However, then, as plans develop for
this site we very likely could be back here again asking for a DA amendment for -- to be
able to add that drive through back in the future based on the sort of businesses that we
could anticipate coming here. Further, to Council Member Strader's points, there is --
there is maybe not quite as big an employment center right at this location, but there is
a lot of employment that's going in currently right on that corner by the Top Golf, by the
-- there is -- there is just a lot of big buildings that are going in right there. There is -- I
think there is a -- there is a couple different Tommy Ahlquist ones. There is the ICCU
building and so there are -- there is becoming more and more employment in this area
that will continue to appeal to the people who would be living in this development. The
transportation -- it just hasn't been extended to this area yet. That's something that VRT
is, you know, constantly working on, constantly struggling with. And the schools -- the
schools -- the elementary and the middle school do currently have capacity. The high
school is a tough nut to crack, like there is not a lot that we can do with this
development to really help that, but we do know that there are fewer students in these
developments than there are in a lot of other developments, just because of the type of
people that it really appeals to and to the extent that there are facing single families --
younger families, they tend to also have the younger kids and it looks like there is a little
bit of space available in the school for those. They tend to move out of these
developments as the kids grow up and the kids get older. I mean these are pretty small
and you start looking for the -- more space, the bigger space, the bigger units at that
point. And so with that I would once again just say what the -- the Baron team does a
really great job on their developments. They -- by owning the project from beginning to
the end it really helps alleviate a lot of the other issues and problems that sometimes
come with multi-family developments and we look forward to moving this project also
forward in the City of Meridian.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Koeckeritz: Oh, wait. Could we just take one final --
Simison: Yep. You still have five minutes and 44 seconds.
Riggs: Hello again, Mayor, Council Members. Matt Riggs. 529 West Fordham. You
know, we are -- we are really in agreement with I think the discussion around this drive
through. You know, we don't want Jack-in-the-Box on the corner of a site where we
have 130 homes there. What we showed here was -- in an effort to accommodate a
user that needed more of a pharmacy drive through window and, to be honest, our team
has -- has gone around and around, along with Bill and staff, about this commercial side
of things and, you know, it feels like at times throughout the last year -- plus it's been the
tail that's wagging the dog and so I think that, you know, in terms of the commentary
Meridian City Council Work Session
May 2,2023
Page 51 of 59
that -- that's been, you know, provided today, you know, we are hearing you loud and
clear on that commercial pad, not wanting to, you know, put drive through traffic out
onto these, you know, private streets. You know, our intention was, you know, to show a
-- a concept in detail on here, knowing full well that a CUP would be required and that if
we were to move forward with this user we would be right back in front of you in, you
know, the weeks and months to come -- you know, months to come. So, long winded
way of saying, you know, we -- we have attacked these mixed-use communities in
Meridian. We have done two of them so far at Black Cat and Chinden and at Ten Mile
and Pine. We have delivered commercial at both of those projects and it's gone pretty
well and you may recall we were in here earlier this year refining a -- a similar oriented
lot at Black Cat and Chinden where we were taking a -- what was designated to be a
two-story building down to a single level building and enhancing the -- the -- the -- the
property. So, I think what -- what Elizabeth was alluding to in terms of changing a DA
was along the lines of -- our main focus is housing and operating it and making it the
best product available for, you know, the people that we think it will serve. You know, St.
Luke's and all the employment along 84 and Eagle, being, you know, the first -- the first
look at that. But things evolve on the commercial side. You know, we wouldn't go out
and speculatively build these pads today. We would engage local brokers to -- to find
people that would want to -- you know, want to put their businesses there and, then,
design a building, you know, under the parameters that we are putting forth here on the
site. So, really, long winded way of saying, you know, we are still in the very early
concepts on the commercial and, you know, we have heard you loud and clear. If -- if it
-- if it's a -- you know, one of those non-starters, by all means, you know, it's something
that we will take to heart and should thing -- somebody pop up in -- in the months to
come wanting, you know, a different use that is commercially, you know, designated, we
are going to be right back in front of you as per the process. So, I think that's -- that's
really why, you know, I wanted to get up and say, you know, is -- is -- trying to figure it
out. I think that Bill's orientation on the -- the plaza space has been great. You know,
we have seen that in a couple of our other projects here and it's turned out really well
and it does integrate -- you know, our -- our projects -- I think you fail to grasp how well
the site walks and how nice of a dog walk it is around -- around these communities and,
you know, I think that's the other side is -- is that this is -- it's not the Ten Mile plan, you
know, parkway corridor, but, you know, dealing with an ACHD public right of way, you
know, really dissecting our -- our site from north to south, I think we are setting up, you
know, for a -- a really nicely integrated, you know, project within our own boundaries
and, then, you know, to the neighborhoods around us. So, you know, appreciate, again,
Bill and everybody at the city working on this one. It's been -- it's been a tricky one in
large part because mixed-use community is -- you know, has a pretty broad, you know,
range of things it could be and we really enjoyed working with Bill and everybody on
trying to hone in and sand and refine, you know, what this project is and how it wants to
integrate. I think that the phrase, you know, pedestrian integration is really a good one
and one that we have taken to heart. So, that's all I have got. Appreciate, you know,
everybody's time, unless I guess there is any other questions.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Meridian City Council Work Session
May 2,2023
Page 52 of 59
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Matt, just a quick question. On -- on -- if the drive through concept remains --
I know we have done this in other areas of the city where it abuts residential areas, but
there is time limits. So, it's 5.00 a.m. to 11.00 p.m. restriction. Any issues with
something like that?
Riggs: No. No. Absolutely not. I mean I think we are -- we are going to have, you
know, orphans and children right, at -- at this site. We are trying to orient towards little
kids going to -- get to the school bus in the morning and, then, what happens after
dinner time in the summer at night. So, you know, if -- if our chief operating officer, who
handles all things product and operations were speaking, she would -- she would be
standing on the hood of the car saying that's absolutely okay, so --
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: Thank you. You had mentioned the drive through pharmacy concept. I don't
know if that was just something you threw out as an example or you actually have gone
down that road with -- with a possible buyer or tenant, but there is a pharmacy, a Rite
Aid across the street and, then, there is one a mile south. So, is that -- was that --
Riggs: Yeah. No.
Perreault: -- legitimately something that's being considered or was just an example?
Riggs: No. Mayor, Council Woman, that -- that was -- we have had legitimate letters of
intent from another national pharmacy group. You know, they study your city very
closely and they circle corners where they want stores and so it's a group that's in town.
It's nationally recognized. And when we got that call our eyebrows raised, too, saying,
hey, their number one competitor is literally, you know, a pitching wedge away from --
from us here. So, you know, it's one of those -- it's by no means final and, honestly, I -- I
don't hold my breath with, you know, some of these larger, you know, national
companies on -- they just take a long time, you know, and have a lot of meetings to -- to
plan meetings if you will. So, I -- I think it's something that we talked about with -- you
know, with staff because we had real interest there, but it hasn't materialized beyond
them inquiring and -- and running some demographic studies that they run internally.
So, again, I think we are approaching this knowing full well that when we decide to build
on the commercial, you know, we will be refining concepts and plans and answering a
lot of the -- the questions that come up in any development. So, we are doing the same
on -- on our other two projects right now, just a little further along on those.
Simison: Okay. So, Council, we need to do a hard stop in the next few minutes and,
then, we will come back after about a 20 minute recess. So, not knowing how much
Meridian City Council Work Session
May 2,2023
Page 53 of 59
more questions there are for the applicant -- I know -- I see Councilman Borton, you
unmuted. If you wanted to --just since you are not here in the room.
Borton: Sure. Just a quick comment. I think the -- the comments from my colleagues
regarding the drive through I think are spot on. I think you are -- Elizabeth's
acknowledgement and concession that a DA provision to prohibit drive-throughs I think
is most appropriate. I think it sounds like that's acceptable and -- and if that
necessitates a future DA modification request based upon a particular user, I would
rather have Council address that based upon the merits at that time. But for the
purpose of this application, to simply have DA condition that prohibits drive-through use,
I think the reasoning is well laid out by the Council Members and -- and your
presentation and I think it's truly supportive of the pedestrian purpose and -- and focus
of this development. So, I wouldn't want to leave it to a future CUP. I -- I think it's best
to prohibit it in the DA and allow that to be modified if necessary at some future date.
Because I do like the application overall, but just wanted to put a comment in after the
drive through.
Simison: Right. Well, why don't we go ahead and take a break until 9.25 and we can
continue at that point in time. So, we will stand in recess.
(Recess: 9.07 p.m. to 9.25 p.m.)
Simison: All right. So, we will come back from recess. The applicant was up there. I
don't want to shortchange anybody if we have any additional questions or comments for
the applicant or if the applicant has anything further they would like to say from where
we were at the end of our last conversation.
Koeckeritz: Elizabeth Koeckeritz. Givens Pursley. 601 Bannock with Baron Properties.
One thing that I was just speaking with the applicant team about and had just also
mentioned it to Bill, was one of the other options -- because this is a really sort of
difficult -- well, it's just -- it -- it doesn't necessarily -- I feel like we have done a really
good job of making this flow work, but that the other option would be to -- we would be
comfortable also eliminating the commercial and just going with residential throughout
this site. The overall mixed-use community FLUM has all of the different components
that are really needed for an overall mixed-use community and that's something where if
Council was amenable to that idea, which in a lot of ways would make a lot of sense, we
would just ask to have about a month long continuance to three weeks. We would
probably be done in about two to three weeks and come back and present something of
that nature to City Council. That would be something else that we would certainly like to
explore. Are there any questions?
Simison: Thank you.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Meridian City Council Work Session
May 2,2023
Page 54 of 59
Hoaglun: Question for staff. On -- on something like that -- I mean it's mixed-use, we
do have, you know, commercial to the south. Are we talking per site, you know, type of
thing, per development application, or is it the area? I mean these are conversations I
think we have had before and different things and what's our -- what's our latitude on
something like that? Because that certainly is a possibility to -- to go with that, not have
the drive through, not have the commercial and the varying amounts of traffic that occur
with something like that. So, what's staffs perspective on that?
Parsons: Mayor, Members of the Council, you know, my opening remarks and my
presentation I -- I try to kind of set the table for you on that and looking at a -- a broader
-- a bigger area to let you know that there are a mix of uses, because, quite frankly, we
struggled a little bit with it as well trying to get it -- get them to fit in here and integrate
well. As you know, we are trying to improve on that and make the changes to our comp
plan in the near future, but, again, from my perspective as a staff member working on
this, I'm -- I am open to that suggestion. I think looking at the 50 acres of mixed-use
community, we do have a mix of uses, so we can make those findings to that effect and
certainly that's within your purview as well, if you feel that there is a mix of uses in the
area, because we do have a daycare just directly to the south of this project, along with
that restaurant use, along with some other commercial that's going to happen -- another
commercial site there. We have the assisted living facility. So, you can see just right
there and, then, immediate vicinity we have three different land use types consistent to
what the plan calls for. Again, it's nice to have some of those neighborhoods serving
uses. To your point there is a lot of employment north of this, but at the same time if -- if
Council believes that this should be developed as one single use, that's certainly within
your purview and the comp plan does allow for you to look at that on a case-by-case
basis and, again, staff is amenable, but we would need time to get all the necessary
documents and continue this out and really analyze it for you.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, I guess Bill -- right before we started up
again Bill asked if we needed to remand this if that was the direction of the Council and I
don't believe we need to remand it. But I don't know -- if we take out the commercial
how much additional residential units are we talking about? Clearly nobody in the
neighborhood -- I mean although there is a lot of letters, I -- no one in the neighborhood
is here to testify and not that that means anything, because there is a lot of testimony in
the record from neighbors. I don't know if adding more residential -- I don't know the
amount, so I can't tell you if it's a fairly minor amount of change. We have allowed some
increase in density in other ones, but it's usually been fairly small. So, I guess my
suggestion if we are going to continue it and redesign at least that portion of the
commercial that fronts Eagle Road from the small commercial and -- and a drive
through, that we re-notice it at least. So, that way there is an opportunity for neighbors
-- and, again, there is quite a few letters in there and talking about traffic and access
and things like that. Again, I'm not sure how much acreage we are talking about,
Meridian City Council Work Session
May 2,2023
Page 55 of 59
because I don't know how many units it is, but I would at least like the opportunity to --
for us to re-notice it. So, at least we have made the public aware that there is a
suggested change, because it is merely a recommendation from P&Z.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: I -- I would prefer to keep the -- the commercial in, because in my opinion
there is a shortage of neighborhood services on the south side altogether and I think
that also helps to keep trips away from the Eagle and Overland intersection where we
are really hitting capacity. So, I -- I don't know why it's named Artisan Victory Market. I
kind of made the assumption that there was going to be a little grocery store or
something there, which I was actually super in favor of. I was hoping that's what they
were going to tell us, because I -- I really would like to see some neighborhood uses
that will keep folks off of the already very -- very busy intersections to the north and also
I have a question for Bill. Did I see that there is going to be multi-family applications just
north of the storage units over kind of by where T-Mobile was and I think there is going
to be -- I thought I saw two applications come through that are pretty significant amount
of units. Am I -- I see a lot of them come through, so I don't know if I'm imagining it, but
I thought for sure there was going to be some large multi-family that's being considered
just north of the storage units.
Parsons: Yeah. Mayor, Council Woman Perreault, there was an application that was
withdrawn.
Perreault: Okay.
Parsons: I know the Citibank property, they have a remnant piece that they are trying to
sell off and we have -- we have had pre-application meetings on that, but there is no
active or pending application on that site at this moment. The other option, too -- and --
and -- and I -- I don't know what the rest of the Council's opinion is on keeping the
commercial, but, again, if you don't like this building footprint and you really want to stick
to that neighborhood flavor, the -- maybe the applicant would be amenable to doing
another smaller, multi-tenant building like the northern building and remove it --
removing that drive through component and making it smaller serving commercial. So,
you -- you do try to minimize some of those impacts. But just -- there is some other
options there that you could take into consideration if -- if the Council is wanting to -- to
keep that component. As I was mentioning, you know, even back to Mr. Nary's point,
you know, currently we have this noticed as commercial and residential, not all
residential. We have it noticed as a plat with commercial lots and not all residential lots.
So, there is a lot of things that we have to take under consideration if -- if the
commercial does get pulled out and want to make sure we do it right. But I do like the
suggestion of re-noticing it, but make sure that we have -- we work with the applicant,
give them adequate time frame, and, then, make sure we get the revised documents, so
Meridian City Council Work Session
May 2,2023
Page 56 of 59
that it can go along with that re-noticing. So, I'm not sure if that can all be accomplished
in a month or not to keep with the noticing requirements.
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Does this conversation presume that the applicant isn't accepting what we left
off with? And if an application like this were to proceed that a DA condition removes
drive through components? Is that -- are we being told that's not acceptable by the
applicant and so there is two pivot options?
Simison: Yeah. I think we are just exploring options if a drive through is not an option.
Borton: Well, one of them, Mr. Mayor -- one is you could proceed with the application
as presented and have it -- have that DA condition. But the question goes to the
applicant that if that were to be the case, are they telling us now that that to them is not
a viable option under any circumstance? So, if that's the case let's -- let's hear that and
we can pivot to -- do we need to continue it to redesign this commercial component that
we want to retain in some form or fashion or continue it to eliminate it and bring back
residential with re-noticing? So, I think those two latter options presume that the
applicant is telling us today they won't agree to a DA condition that removes that. I just
haven't heard him say it, so give him a chance to comment on that.
Koeckeritz: Mayor, Council Member Borton, the DA term is not ideal. It's not preferred.
But it's -- it is viable. The project is still viable. It's just -- it would just -- it's just not
nearly as preferred an option as either limiting the uses, limiting the hours, having
conditions that limit the uses, limit the hours or pivoting completely to residential.
Borton: Sure.
Koeckeritz: However, to have this project approved it is something that it is viable and it
is something that we could do. It's just the least preferred of the options that have
been --
Borton- Got it.
Koeckeritz: -- sort of discussed so far.
Borton: Mr. Mayor, just a question on that point. Totally understandable. We have had
difficulty in other scenarios where you try and condition drive-through requirements to
such a degree that they basically don't really -- you know, so long as you don't drive
through them they are great. Well, we don't want to condition them away. If the reality
is this should be commercial without a drive through component, let's just say it and if
you are -- and if your team says if that were the case and you still want commercial in
the southwest corner, let us tweak it a little bit and we will have some neighborhood
Meridian City Council Work Session
May 2,2023
Page 57 of 59
commercial element there. It might not look exactly like what's here, but we can still
have commercial, but do you think that's a preferred option that you think it could be
best presented with some adjustments, knowing that there is no drive through?
Koeckeritz: Mayor, Council Member Borton, I think that it would be preferred to keep
the larger -- the one larger unit and, then, the smaller five or six complex versus doing
more of the smaller neighborhood units --
Borton- Okay.
Koeckeritz: -- just from the sort of tenants that are more likely to be interested and the
one thing is that the tenant that they have had discussions with is really interested in
having a drive-through option that can be limited on certain hours and times a day and
lighting and all of those things.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: I have a question about that. Are you saying that the potential tenant and set
up with them would work to limit the hours of the drive through or the hours of the
establishment itself? Because that's kind of a distinction.
Koeckeritz: The -- certainly the hours of the drive through.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Yeah. Just like to reflect on that; right? So -- I mean if it's an establishment
that's open 24 hours a day, the drive through is closed, I still -- I still don't -- I'm like
struggling with how that fits into this neighborhood. If it was neighborhood serving uses
I think that would make more sense; right? Like a bookkeeper is not going to be open
24 hours a day.
Parsons: Mayor, Council, just to give you some code context on that.
Strader: Yeah. That would be great.
Parsons: So, the C-C zone hours of operations are limited between 6.00 a.m and 11.00
p.m. because of its adjacency to residential uses. So, it will be capped. It's -- I think to
Councilman Borton's commentary is like do we want to restrict it even further than that
and hold them to 6.00 a.m. to 10.00 p.m. or something to that effect. Or even 7.00 to
10.00 p.m. or something. That would be the -- I think that's where Councilman Borton
was getting at. But right now they are going to be restricted regardless, unless they go
through a CUP for extended hours is how the code reads.
Meridian City Council Work Session
May 2,2023
Page 58 of 59
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Thank you, Bill, for telling me that. I did not realize. I appreciate it.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Elizabeth, we could, you know, continue this to June 20th. If re-noticing is
required that be the earliest we could -- we could do this and that would allow I think
your team enough time to talk through this, decide what the best plan is for you. I -- I
certainly understand some small commercial may not work. I mean it's just -- that's
difficult and we know things are going the drive through route. That's what a lot of
people want, so -- and maybe the option is, you know, the residential, but with the re-
noticing that would allow the neighborhood to engage and understand what's happening
and -- and why. So, we can continue to June 20th and I will let you guys talk it over and
decide and work with staff and meet all the time frames and everything and -- and, then,
we pick it up from there. Is that okay with -- with you folks?
Koeckeritz: Yes.
Hoaglun: Okay. Well, Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Unless there is further -- further discussion on the topic, I would move that we
continue the public hearing for Artisan Victory Market, H-2022-0066, to June 20th and
that this project would also be re-noticed for that -- for that date.
Overton: Second.
Simison: I have a motion and a second. Is there a discussion?
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Just -- I don't know what -- what route you guys are going to go to present, but
there were some aspects of the boulevard feel from the last application that were really
nice I think you -- you have the opportunity to include here. I would just suggest that
you think about that. I'm like -- it wasn't really like a roundabout, but like some of those
elements would slow traffic quite a bit. So, just something to think about.
Meridian City Council Work Session
May 2,2023
Page 59 of 59
Simison: Okay. And if I'm -- I don't want to speak for everybody, but if the first option is
preferred, no drive through and a return item -- I understand there was questions about
hours, but is that the --just want to give the -- the applicant some guidance on this item.
Is that correct? Is that the Council's hopes, that there is not a drive through in what they
see back here?
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: I know it's not ideal for the applicant, but I agree with Councilman Borton that
I would prefer that -- that it be removed and, then, there would be a DA modification
required, so that it does come back in front of Council and not just to have a CUP. In
this particular situation, because the drive through is so close to residential, I wouldn't
always necessarily, you know, think -- think that we need to do that. But in this case
that would be my preference.
Simison: Okay. All right. Thank you. Hopefully that helps in your preparations. So,
with that all those in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay? The ayes have it and
the item is continued. Thank you.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Simison: Council, with that anything under future meeting topics or a motion to
adjourn?
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor, I move we adjourn.
Simison: Motion to adjourn. All in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay? The
ayes have it. We are adjourned.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 9.44 P.M.
(AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
MAYOR ROBERT SIMISON DATE APPROVED
ATTEST:
CHRIS JOHNSON - CITY CLERK