Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAbout2001 07-17 1. 2. 3. !i-F. f) - G. 15- H. CITY OF MERIDIAN JUL CITY COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING AGENDA City of Meridian City Clerk Office Tuesday, July 17, 2001, at 6:30 p.m. City Council Chambers Roll-call Attendance: ~ Tammy de Weerd X Ron Anderson ~ Cherie McCandless ==x= Keith Bird " ---2L- Mayor Robert Corrie !Jpj:)l.//J1.--fmelv-t' JJF I2tchcf/ld /'h.... Worlej as- [ill ;e./' of ftYol/c.e.- Adoption of the Agenda: el'?ecflve- Oeft) he r /; 200 I Consent Agenda: A. Approve minutes of June 5,2001 City Council Meeting: ti>f'FToll'<- Approve minutes of June 11, 2001 City Council Workshop: o/J?n?v~ Approve minutes of June 19, 2001 City Council Meeting: afl'rt'v<-e...- Approve minutes of June 26,2001 City Council Meeting: v~l/.e.- Approve minutes of June 27,2001, City Council Special Meeting: ~)JmVL Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: VAR 01-007 Request for a variance to exceed the maximum 1,000 foot block length for proposed Macaile Meadows Subdivision by Hillview Land Development, LLC - south of Fairview Avenue, north of Pine Street and % mile west of Cloverdale Road: /vu:J~ 10 ~- F d.;J/yrpvze. tlS a~v0 Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: AZ Di- DOS Request for annexation and zoning of 28.59 acres from RUT to R-8 for proposed Macaile Meadows Subdivision by Hillview Land Development, LLC - south of Fairview and west of Cloverdale Roads: /vi.. (? ~ Iv S- - G &/Pj? rcJ V1e. .d-v a~. cL Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: PP 01- 006 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 115 building lots and 15 other lots on 28.59 acres in a proposed R-8 zone for proposed B. C. D. E. Meridian City Council Agenda - July 17,2001 Page I of3 All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian. Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents andlor hearings, please contact the City Clerk's Office at 888-4433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting. Macaile Meadows Subdivision by Hillview Land Development, LLC - south of Fairview and west of Cloverdale Roads: fvu?v-e Iv 6-11 a,n At> v1€. t:<J. .1Vhte,n.-tU. d. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: CUP 01-018 Request for the continuation of a three-year CUP granted in January 1997 for modular buildings in an L-O zone for the Meridian Assembly of God by Meridian Assembly of God - 1830 North Linder Road: -Ia~ ~ I!u-ff-, 7 t!- I Zoo I Ihl~ J. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: CUP 01 ~019 Request for Conditional Use Permit for a free-standing bank building with a drive-up window and ATM machine in an I-L zone for Meridian Crossroads Shopping Center by the Dakota Company - south of East Fairview Avenue and east of North Eagle Road: tlJ (//10 v-e- K. Memorandum of Understanding: Between City of Meridian and Meridian Firefighters Local 23111AFF: ap;; r-oV'f0 4. Department Reports: A. Public Works Department - Gary Smith 1. WWTP Front Loader Tractor - Bid Results: clf'fJTt7V11l-- a ~ d. h C f7S co 2. White Drain Trunk Sewer - Easement and Right-of-way Contract Approval: a'p'pN7Ve.. B. Parks and Recreation Department - Tom Kuntz 1. Bear Creek Utility Plan Design Agreement: t1r/9~'.r Btff;h..eel-;~ a j/ j? ro v.L C. Planning and Zoning Department - Shari Stiles 1. Sundance Investments Development Agreement: apjJl-Pv..e. 2. Ordinance No. t) 1- 92-0 : AZ 01-001 Request for annexation and zoning of 78 acres from R1 to C-C and C-G zones for proposed Silverstone Corporate Center by Sundance Investments Partnership, LLC - southeast corner of South Eagle Road and East Overland Road: t'ifPY'o v...e..- S. (Items Moved from Consent Agenda) 6. Resolution No. (JJ 1- :3 66: Lease and Trust Agreement with Wells Fargo Bank Northwest (.,fl poV..rz-, Meridian City Council Agenda - July 17, 200 I Page 2 of3 All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian. Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents andlor hearings, please contact the City Clerk's Office at 888-4433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting. 7. Tabled from July 3, 2001: FP 01-007 Final Plat approval of 36 building lots and 2 other lots on 10.66 acres in an R-4 zone for Bear Creek Subdivision No.2 by Briggs Engineering - east of South Stoddard and south of West Overland Road: -/lL6ee ~c..Z /JRfI-' 7 ~ UJ& ( /14-ff. Public Hearing: VAR 01-009 Request for a variance to reduce the minimum block length in a proposed R-4 zone for proposed Staten Park Subdivision by D'Alessio Building Development, Inc. - southeast corner of North Black Cat Road and West Ustick Road: . ~ a~vJ Iv fJ'Uf'~VLl- /'/+' i e/.e --G-z- 4-j'?j?7'bv' Continued Pu'blic Hearing from July 3, 2001: AZ 01-009 Request for annexation and zoning of 8.15 acres from RUT to R-4 zones for proposed Staten Park Subdivision by D'Alessio Building Development -- southeast corner of North Black Cat Road and West Ustick Road: ~ ~!J h ~fl~ IYP :I e?e -:rn &j7jtJJq;vc< Continued Public Hearing from July 3, 2001: PP 01-012 Request for preliminary plat approval of 23 building lots and 5 other lots on 8.15 acres in a proposed R-4 zone for proposed Staten Park Subdivision by D'Alessio Building Development - southeast corner of North Black Cat Road and West Ustick Road: c/ . / /! -a..U a~J' ~ f><'C;P?VI..L rl-.c f {! r'-l ;1'- ~f'j1rt'Jv. Public Hearing: AZ 01-008 Request for Annexation and zoning of 12.71 acres from R1 and RUT to C-G and R-40 zones for proposed Baltic Place Subdivision by L.C. Development, Inc. - Franklin Road west of Locust Grove Road: . (' ern;n'nux:.. F I /.- ~ /!kit i 71!1( w t> I Public Hearing: PP 01-009 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 10 building lots and 3 other lots on 12.71 acres in proposed C-G and R-40 zones for proposed Baltic Place Subdivision by L.C. Development, Inc. - Franklin Road west of Locust Grove Road: C~-h'vu/(A..- pi/._ u;-d/I 1Jr.1{ft 7-11:- /2po( Public Hearing: CUP 01-015 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a Planned Unit Development for mixed use Residential/Commercial in proposed C-G and R-40 zones for proposed Baltic Place Subdivision by L.C. Development, Inc. - Franklin Road west of Locust Grove Road: Gc;11- -h n KIZ.- piA-- evvvh 7 1Ju1-' 7'f!2. ( 2c> t> , FP 01-011 Request for Final Plat approval of 43 building lots and 5 other lots on 15.87 acres in an R-4 zone for Bear Creek Subdivision No.3 by Briggs Engineering - east of Stoddard and south of Overland: -la-ble ttftVh1 /J-k-fJ. '7.lj.f1-t:?&7! ~ TE 01-006 Request for a Time Extension for Final Plat approved on July 18, 2001 for Heron Brook Townhomes by Pinnacle Engineers - northeast corner of Meridian Road and Blue Heron Lane: ajJ j?rPv,e... e )C.fem-I'/~P;--J ~f,'Z <TNt. tef1:::. I ZOO z.. (6 f~Ir..S) Water, Sewer and Trash Delinquencies: alof rov...e.-, Meridian City Council Agenda - July 17, 200 I Page 3 on All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian. Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents andlor hearings, please contact the City Clerk's Office at 888-4433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting. 8. 9. 10. 11. 12. 13. 14. 15. 16. CITY OF MERIDIAN CITY COUNCil REGULAR MEETING AGENDA Tuesday, July 17, 2001, at 6:30 p.m. City Council Chambers 1. Roll-call Attendance: --X- Tammy de Weerd X Ron Anderson o Cherie McCandless X- Keith Bird - --X- Mayor Robert Corrie- Appointment of Richard M. Worley as Chief of Police effective October 1, 2001: Approve 2. Adoption of the Agenda: 3. Consent Agenda: A. Approve minutes of June 5, 2001 City Council Meeting: Approve B. Approve minutes of June 11 J 2001 City Council Workshop: Approve C. Approve minutes of June 19, 2001 City Council Meeting: Approve D. Approve minutes of June 26, 2001 City Council Meeting: Approve E. Approve minutes of June 27, 2001, City Council Special Meeting: Approve F. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: VAR 01-007 Request for a variance to exceed the maximum 1,000 foot block length for proposed Macaile Meadows Subdivision by Hillview Land Development, LLC - south of Fairview Avenue, north of Pine Street and % mile west of Cloverdale Road: Move to 5-F approve as amended G. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: AZ Di- DOS Request for annexation and zoning of 28.59 acres from RUT to R-8 for proposed Macaile Meadows Subdivision by Hillview Meridian City Council Agenda- July 17, 2001 Page I of4 All materials presented at public meetings shall become property ofthe City of Meridian. Anyone desiring acconunodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearings, please contact the City Clerk's Office at 888-4433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting. Land Development, LLC - south of Fairview and west of Cloverdale Roads: Move to 5-G approve as amended H. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of law for Approval: PP 01~ 006 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 115 building lots and 15 other lots on 28.59 acres in a proposed R~8 zone for proposed Macaile Meadows Subdivision by Hillview Land Development, LLC - south of Fairview and west of Cloverdale Roads: Move to 5~H approve as amended Findings of Fact and Conclusions of law for Approval: CUP 01-018 Request for the continuation of a three-year CUP granted in January 1997 for modular buildings in an L-Q zone for the Meridian Assembly of God by Meridian Assembly of God - 1830 North Linder Road: Table until August 7, 2001 Meeting J. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: CUP 01~019 Request for Conditional Use Permit for a free-standing bank building with a drive-up window and A TM machine in an I-L zone for Meridian Crossroads Shopping Center by the Dakota Company - south of East Fairview Avenue and east of North Eagle Road: Approve K. Memorandum of Understanding: Between City of Meridian and Meridian Firefighters Loca123111AFF: Approve 4. DeparbnentReports: A. Public Works Department - Gary Smith 1. W\NTP Front loader Tractor - Bid Results: Approve award to CESCO 2. White Drain Trunk Sewer - Easement and Right-of-way Contract Approval: Approve B. Parks and Recreation Department - Tom Kuntz 1. Bear Creek Utility Plan Design Agreement: Engineering approve Briggs C. Planning and Zoning Department - Shari Stiles 1. Sundance Investments Development Agreement: Approve Meridian City Council Agenda - July 11,2001 Page 2 of4 All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian. Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearings, please contact the City Clerk's Office at 8884433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting. 2. Ordinance No. 01-920 : AZ 01-001 Request for annexation and zoning of 78 acres from R1 to C-C and C-G zones for proposed Silverstone Corporate Center by Sundance Investments Partnership, LLC - southeast corner of South Eagle Road and East Overland Road: Approve SA. Memorandum of Understanding: Mutual Aide with Meridian Police Department and Emmett Police Department. Approve agreement SF. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: VAR 01-007 Request for a variance to exceed the maximum 1,000 foot block length for proposed Macaile Meadows Subdivision by Hillview Land Development, LLC - south of Fairview Avenue, north of Pine Street and Y4 mile west of Cloverdale Road: Approve as amended SG. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of law for Approval: AZ 01-005 Request for annexation and zoning of 28.59 acres from RUT to R-B for proposed Macaile Meadows Subdivision by Hillview Land Development. LLC - south of Fairview and west of Cloverdale Roads: Approve as amended SH. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: PP 01..006 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 115 building lots and 15 other lots on 2B.59 acres in a proposed R-8 zone for proposed Macaile Meadows Subdivision by Hillview Land Development, LLC - south of Fairview and west of Cloverdale Roads: Approve as amended 6. Resolution No. 01-366 Lease and Trust Agreement with Wells Fargo Bank Northwest: Approve 7. Tabled from July 3, 2001: FP 01-007 Final Plat approval of 36 building lots and 2 other lots on 10.66 acres in an R-4 zone for Bear Creek Subdivision No.2 by Briggs Engineering - east of South Stoddard and south of West Overland Road: Table until August 7,2001 Meeting 8. Public Hearing: VAR 01-009 Request for a variance to reduce the minimum block length in a proposed R-4 zone for proposed Staten Park Subdivision by D'Alessio Building Development, Inc. - southeast corner of North Black Cat Road and West Ustick Road: Attorney to prepare Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law for approval 9. Continued Public Hearing from July 3, 2001: AZ 01-009 Request for annexation and zoning of 8.15 acres from RUT to R-4 zones for proposed Staten Park Subdivision by D'Alessio Building Development -~ southeast Meridian City Council Agenda - July 17, 200 I Page 3 of4 All materials presented lit public meetings shall become propel'ly ofthe City of Meridian. Anyone desiring accommodation fur disabilities related to documents and/or hearings, please contact the City Clerk's Office at 8884433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting. corner of North Black Cat Road and West Ustick Road: Attorney to prepare Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law for approval 10. Continued Public Hearing from July 3, 2001: PP 01-012 Request for preliminary plat approval of 23 building lots and 5 other lots on 8.15 acres in a proposed R-4 zone for proposed Staten Park Subdivision by D'Alessio Building Development - southeast corner of North Black Cat Road and West Ustick Road: Attorney to prepare Findings of Facts and Conclusions of law for approval 11. Public Hearing: AZ 01-008 Requestfor Annexation and zoning of 12.71 acres from R1 and RUT to C-G and R-40 zones for proposed Baltic Place Subdivision by L.C. Development, Inc. - Franklin Road west of Locust Grove Road: Continue Public Hearing until August 7,2001 12. Public Hearing: PP 01..009 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 10 building lots and 3 other lots on 12.71 acres in proposed C-G and R-40 zones for proposed Baltic Place Subdivision by L.C. Development, Inc. - Franklin Road west of Locust Grove Road: Continue Public Hearing until August 7,2001 13. Public Hearing: CUP 01-015 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a Planned Unit Development for mixed use Residential/Commercial in proposed C~G and R-40 zones for proposed Baltic Place Subdivision by L.C. Development, Inc. - Franklin Road west of Locust Grove Road: Continue Public Hearing until August 7, 2001 14. FP 01-011 Request for Final Plat approval of 43 building lots and 5 other lots on 15.87 acres in an R-4 zone for Bear Creek Subdivision No.3 by Briggs Engineering - east of Stoddard and south of Overland: Table until August 7,2001 Meeting 15. TE 01-006 Request for a Time Extension for Final Plat approved on July 18, 2001 for Heron Brook Townhomes by Pinnacle Engineers - northeast corner of Meridian Road and Blue Heron Lane: Approve extension until January 18, 2002 (6 months) 16. Water, Sewer and Trash Delinquencies: Approve MeridilID City Council Agenda - July 17,200 I Page 4 of4 All materi!lls presented at public meetings shall become property ofthc City of Meridian. Anyone desiring accommodation fur disabil ities related to documents andlor hearings, please contact the City Clerk's Office at 888-4433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting. Meridian City Council MeetinCl Julv 17. 2001 The regularly scheduled meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 6:45 P.M. on Tuesday, July 17,2001, by Mayor Robert D. Corrie. Members Present: Mayor Robert Corrie, Tammy de Weerd, Keith Bird, and Ron Anderson. Members Absent: Cherie McCandless. Others Present: Shari Stiles, Gary Smith, Bill Nichols and Bill Gordon. Item 1. Roll-call Attendance: -L Tammy de Weerd ~ Ron Anderson o Cherie McCandless X Keith Bird - -L Mayor Robert Corrie- Corrie: I apologize to everyone here this evening. We're starting a little bit late but I will open the regular City Council meeting on Tuesday, July the 1 ih at 6:45. We'll have roll call attendance Mr. Clerk. Appointment of Richard M. Worley as Chief of Police effective October 1,2001: Corrie: First off tonight I would like to announce the appointment of the new Chief of Police for Meridian which will take effect the 1 st of October of this year. We had a very good selection of candidates and everyone on the Council had a chance to interview except the President of the Council who was busy at that time. As I said we had a very good slate of candidates and I think that my choice and the Council's choice, I hope is going to be the same. At this time I would like to give the Council the name of Richard M. Mike Warley who is a Captain at the Boise Police Department. At this time I will make that a nomination for the appointment of Mike Warley as the Chief of Police effective October 1, 2001 and will let the Council discuss it for either their approval or denial. Bird: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: I would move that we accept the appointment of Richard M. Mike Warley as the Police Chief for Meridian, Idaho effective October 1,2001. De Weerd: Second. Meridian City Council Meetlil.~ July 17, 2001 Page 2 Corrie: All right. The motion's been made and second to approve the name of Mike Warley as the new Chief of Police effective October 1, 2001. Any further discussion? Anderson: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Anderson. Anderson: I would just like to say that both Tammy and I had the opportunity to sit in on that selection process. I agree there were several good candidates that applied for that position but Mike stood out heads above those other candidates. We welcome him aboard and look forward to several years of service from you. We appreciate you applying and good luck. Corrie: Any other comments? Bird: I have none. Corrie: Okay have roll call vote Mr. Clerk. Roll Call: Bird, aye; De Weerd, aye; McCandless, absent; Anderson, aye. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT Corrie: Mike, congratulations. Mike is with us tonight. Thank you for coming and we'll be talking to you and I'll see you Friday morning as well. Item 2. Adoption of the Agenda: Item 3. Consent Agenda: A. Approve minutes of June 5,2001 City Council Meeting: B. Approve minutes of June 11, 2001 City Council Workshop: C. Approve minutes of June 19, 2001 City Council Meeting: D. Approve minutes of June 26, 2001 City Council Meeting: E. Approve minutes of June 27, 2001, City Council Special Meeting: F. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: VAR 01-007 Request for a variance to exceed the maximum 1,000 foot block length for proposed Macaile Meadows Subdivision by HiIlview Land Development, LLC ( Meridian City Council Meeth,,, July 17,2001 Page 3 - south of Fairview Avenue, north of Pine Street and % mile west of Cloverdale Road: G. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: AZ 01 ~OOS Request for annexation and zoning of 28.59 acres from RUT to R-8 for proposed Macaile Meadows Subdivision by Hillview Land Development, LLC - south of Fairviewand west of Cloverdale Roads: H. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: PP 01-006 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 115 building lots and 15 other lots on 28,59 acres in a proposed R-8 zone for proposed Macaile Meadows Subdivision by Hillview Land Development, LLC - south of Fairview and west of Cloverdale Roads: Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: CUP 01-018 Request for the continuation of a three-year CUP granted in January 1997 for modular buildings in an L- o zone for the Meridian Assembly of God by Meridian Assembly of God -1830 North Linder Road: J. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: CUP 01-019 Request for Conditional Use Permit for a free- standing bank building with a drive-up window and A TM machine in an I-L zone for Meridian Crossroads Shopping Center by the Dakota Company - south of East Fairview Avenue and east of North Eagle Road: K. Memorandum of Understanding: Between City of Meridian and Meridian Firefighters Local 2311 IAFF: Corrie: Okay, Council. Item NO.2 is adoption of the agenda. There are a couple of things. Mr. Bird, you had a couple of things you wanted to change? Bird: Yes sir. Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: I believe we wanted to take item number in the Consent Agenda I -- we do not have the findings and facts completed yet and move it to August 7, 2001. We want to make an Item 5A which is the Agreement with the Emmett Police Department, the Mutual Aide Agreement. I believe that was all we had on changes, I believe. With that I would move that we adopt the agenda as stated. Corrie: Okay. Is there a second? Meridian City Council Meetll '" July 17,2001 Page 4 De Weerd: Staff has something. Corrie: Thank you. Staff? Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council. Could we move Items F, G, and H to the Regular Agenda? Bird: You're going to move them to SF, 5G, and 5H? Stiles: Yes please. Corrie: Okay so, it would be F, G, and H would be 5B, would be F, G, and H. Any other changes? Okay. Bird: My motion to reflect those changes. Corrie: All right. Is there a second to the motion reflecting the change? Bird: Accepting the agenda as noted. De Weerd: Second. Corrie: Okay motion been made and seconded to accept the agenda as adopted with Memorandum of Understanding the Emmett Police at 5A and Item F, G, and H to be 58 and Item No. I is taken out and be put on the August 7,2001 meeting. Any further discussion? Okay, roll call vote Mr. Clerk. Roll Call: Bird, aye; De Weerd, aye; McCandless, absent; Anderson, aye. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT Resolution No. 01~366 : Lease and Trust Agreement with Wells Fargo Bank Northwest: Corrie: With the Council's approval I would like to move Item No. 6 up to just in front of the Department Reports as we do have Mr. Skinner and Mr. Bud Way here to talk about the Lease and Trust Agreement with Wells Fargo Bank Northwest and also the resolution if we have no objections from Council. Hearing none, we'll move that up and we'll do the Mr. Way and M. Skinner if you wanted to make your presentation and then we'll do the resolution. Okay. Item 6. Bird: (inaudible) the agenda first? Corrie: Oh, I'm sorry. Yes. Meridian City Council Meeth,,,, July 17, 2001 Page 5 Bird: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: I would move that we pass the Consent Agenda, moving Items F, G, and H to 5 B, F, G, and H. Also tabling Item I to August 7, 2001. With those changes I move that we approve it. Anderson: Second. Corrie: Okay. Motion made and second to approve the agenda with the corrections and alterations. Any other corrections? Okay, Mr. Clerk, roll call vote. Roll Call: Bird, aye; De Weerd, aye; McCandless, absent; Anderson, aye. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT Corrie: Okay, Mr. skinner. Skinner: Mr. Mayor, members of the Council my name is Richard Skinner. I reside in Boise but I'm happy to be in Meridian. On your agenda you should have a resolution that I think the City Attorney has received from us and put into form for your meeting. I think what I wan to do is just give you a brief summary of what is, the actions that are being taken. I would say that the City Attorney has had the opportunity to review I think all of these documents as well as the resolution. Mr. Way can speak about the financial aspects of the transaction. That's not really my part here so I won't take a lot of your time here. I think that it's probably important to understand that the resolution approves the transaction for the financing of the Law Enforcement Building. In doing so, it refers to several documents actually which were all subject -- several of them are subject of the judicial confirmation which was successful. The major document that's being approved is the recent Trust Agreement with Wells Fargo Bank Northwest. Basically that provides for a leas. We've talked about this before, between the City and the bank as trustee. The bank then will issue Certificates of Participation in that lease pursuant to the same agreement. The investors will pay their money for those. That then becomes the construction fund for your project. Then the City pays back lease payments which then go back to the certificate holders. The document's a little longer than that but that's the short summary for that document. Bud will talk with you about -- Mr. Way will talk to you about the financial aspects, the interest rates and so forth on that. Another document is the offering document, the official statement which is initially prepared in a preliminary form. I think Bud has a few copies of that if you want to see that. I know that the City Attorney has reviewed that as well. That's approved. There's also something called a continuing Disclosure Agreement that's required under SEC rules. It basically says you have to submit your annual ; Meridian City Council Meeh, '>I July 17. 2001 Page 6 audit report to a central location every year so if an investor wants to check to see if there's anything, a problem with the City they have a way to do that. That's the continuing Disclosure Agreement. The final document is the certificate. First is contract and again Mr. Way will talk about that. That's the contract that Wells F argo Brokerage Services is submitting to you for their sale of the Certificates of Participation. Those are the main documents. The resolution also authorizes signature of various closing certificates. The transaction is scheduled to close August 1 st. That's when the money goes in the bank and the certificates are delivered to the investors. I may have talked too fast but that's the basic structure of the documentation. Your resolution will approve those. It will approve the City officials to sign those documents and set the basis for the closing of the transaction. If there are questions I would be happy to answer them. I apologize if I've talked too quickly here. I just didn't want to take too much of your time. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mrs. De Weerd. De Weerd: Mr. Skinner, I would just like to thank you for being involved in this process from inception. I know that your name was lended to the process and your advice has been very helpful in getting this to this points so I would like to thank you and Mr. Way for all you've done. It was tremendous. Skinner: Thank you very much. I've enjoyed it. Bird: Thank you. Way: Good evening Mr. Mayor, members of the City Council. My name is Bud Way and I'm with Wells Fargo Public Finance. I also reside in Boise but I'm in the Meridian School District. I've had three children go through this very fine School District and my daughter is Homecoming Queen. If she was here I would -- I'd embarrass the heck out of her. Seriously, I appreciate being here this evening. This is, hopefully the conclusion of a long process that the City has been looking at. I congratulate the City on the route that you have taken. The issue that we have been pricing and selling and I come here this evening to present a purchase contract is one in which we have been very pleased to bring to the market place. We had this issue rated by Moody's Investor Service. They have come back with a rating of an A-1 credit. Now, with an underlying or what they call an issuers rating of a double A-3. We can throw all these ratings around but what that means is that if this issue was an unlimited taxing authority of the City the rating would be a double A-3. There aren't too many higher. The only one higher is the Meridian School District which is rated a double A-2. With which we have there an unlimited taxing authority for the School District. For the City of Meridian we have, this is not an annual corporation, this is a debt that is going to be repaid over a period of 10 years but it still comes from resources that ( Meridian City Council Meefh,~ July 17, 2001 Page 7 are limited only to the City's cash flow. With that little bit of a background, I wanted to mention to you that we have marketed this issue and we have sold and have a pricing at an interest rate of 4.53 percent. This is on a 1 O-year issue. It is an excellent rate in my opinion. A little bit of history is that when we go back a little bit on this issue, when we first starting talking to a couple members of the board back in, I think it was before November, we were at a 6.07. In March of this year, the interest rate that we were projecting, we're at a 5.25. In May we were at a 4.80. June 25th I presented, along with the documentation review, I presented our projection for this issue to be at a 4.43. Tonight I present to you a purchase contract at a 4.53 because this is the issue that we went to the market with late yesterday afternoon and this morning. Now, it has bounced up and I am willing to fess up to that but we are at historically low market, historical low bond market at this point. The one thing that I did not anticipate 10 days ago is the fact that I was a little too aggressive in my projections. Our underwriting area out of Salt Lake has informed me that I have to allow for the fecapture of expenses and I was promptly chastised but anyway, at a 4.53 I don't mean to be flippant at all. I am very sefious when I suggest to the boar, to the Council that a 4.53 is an excellent intefest rate. That gives you an added, the difference between what we projected 10 days ago and today is about 1,600 dollaf a year as far as a payment goes. I have for your feview and Bill has looked at this too, and I understand he has a few corrections but it's the preliminary official statement that we've put together and sent out to the market place. We have to, if the Council accepts our proposal this evening, we will put out what we call the final official statement which will address the final interest fates and any other changes that we will have this evening. I would like to give this to Will at this point. With that said, I'd be pleased to answer any questions that the Council may have. Bird: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: I don't have a questions but I've worked with Bud fOf, it's been over a year, Bud. I just want to thank you for the hard work that you and the bank have done to get this process through along with Mr. Skinner and Mr. Nichols. OUf taxpayers have been well represented and taken very, very good I believe by this type of payback. We're going to get a nice facility out of it. Way: I appreciate that very much Councilman Bird. Also let me state that it's been a pleasure for me to work, for my firm to work with the administrators as well as the Council people. I have found them to be very astute and have kept us on our toes and I appreciate that. I think it's been a team effort all the way. Again I would like to express my appreciation to Mr. Skinner and his firm for his reliable advice and corrections as we've gone through this process. With that, I would recommend that the Council approve our purchase contract. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor. I Meridian City Council Meeti".. July 17, 2001 Page 8 Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: I first wanted to also thank you. I think when Bud met with Keith and I originally, he kind of looked at us like, now what do you have in mind. We were dreaming. Bird: I told him we had a wild idea. De Weerd: But, you know it's nice to see it come through to fruition. I would like to ask the City Attorney or our Finance Director if there's anything else that we need to address at this point. I'm sure you both have gone through this with a fine toothcomb. Do you have any comments? Corrie: Mr. Nichols. Nichols: Mayor, members of Council, Councilwoman de Weerd. We've been through these documents more than once. I think after the first round, you know we wanted to make sure that we understood them. Mr. Skinner and Mr. Way helped us make sure we understand those things. In the document review telephone conference that we had, we went through several things. I'm confident that we have a good product and there aren't any surprises or gotchas in there. We understand what the terms are and what's required of us. Kilchenmann: Mayor, City Council I would agree with Mr. Nichols. I think Mr. Way has been very helpful for me, coming in at the end of the project to understand what's going on and I feel comfortable with it. Corrie: Before we take a vote, Bud I want to say thank you. We've had a lot of conversations over the phone and talked. Mr. Skinner, tremendous job. I want to say thank you. Every time I got on my computer there was a tree sitting there waiting for me but, you both did a fabulous job and my congratulations to all of you, both of you and your bank as well. Way: Very kind Mayor Corrie but also, again let me state that it's the credit that did it. The City of Meridian, what we brought to the market was an outstanding piece of credit. I had an analyst at Moody's tell me that they've never seen a fund balance that's, or a City, excuse me, that had that type of financials. I indicated that yes, they're in excellent financial shape. They have a lot of growth problems, not problems, challenges ahead but at this point and time you're taking excellent advantage of the financial situation that you're in. Five years from now, who knows, you may have to realize some of those assets but at this point in time its excellent credit so it was a pleasure marketing this. Corrie: Anyone else have any questions? I Meridian City Council Meetl,.v July 17, 2001 Page 9 De Weerd: Mr. Mayor, just one more comment. Corrie: Okay, Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: I know our staffs have also put a tremendous amount of time. I know the Police Department put a lot of time and effort into the judicial confirmation in justifying that financial base. So, everyone needs to be commended for the efforts that they put into it. Now, lets just build. Bird: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: I've got one question. Then I'll make a motion if Will will give us a resolution number. For Mr. Nichols here, as I understand it, when we pass this resolution we pass all the contracts and everything for the Mayor to sign and for the Clerk to attest. Is that right? We don't have to pass those individually? Nichols: Councilman Bird, Mayor, members of the Council that is correct. The resolution authorizes the administrative officers of the City, in this case the Mayor and the Clerk to sign any of the documents necessary to put this into effect. So, it covers it all. Bird: What is the resolution- Corrie: It would be resolution No. 01-366 and I would like to have the City Clerk read the resolution by title only at this point. Berg: Thank you Mr. Mayor, members of the Council. Resolution No. 01-366. A resolution of the City Council of the City of Meridian authorize the execution and delivery of a Lease and Trust Agreement relating to the acquisition and construction of certain law enforcement facilities between the City of Meridian, Idaho and Wells Fargo Bank Northwest National Association as lessor and trustee. A continuing Disclosure Agreement, Certificate Purchase Contract and related document. Setting forth certain findings and purposes in connection therewith authorizing the execution and approving relating documents agreements and actions and providing an effective date. Corrie: You've heard the reading of the Resolution No. 01-366. Is there anyone in the audience who would like to have its entirety read? Hearing none, Mr. bird, I'll entertain a motion on Resolution No, 01-366. Bird: Mr. Mayor, I move that we approve Resolution 01-366 and for the Mayor to sign and the Clerk to attest. Anderson: Second. l Meridian City Council Meeti\.<o July 17, 2001 Page 10 Corrie: Okay motion has been made and second to approve Resolution No. 01- 366. Any further discussion? Hearing none, roll call vote Mr. Berg. Roll Call: Bird, aye; De Weerd, aye; McCandless, absent; Anderson, aye. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT Way: Thank you Mr. Mayor, if I may indulge just a few more - just another minute. If I could obtain the signature on the contract so that we could then proceed to -- we need to close the issue. I don't think we've mentioned this but what we're attempting to do is to make sure that we close and fund this project by August 1. Mr. Skinner will be taking cafe of a lot of that, but if I can indulge. Item 4. Department Reports: A. Public Works Department - Gary Smith 1. WVVTP Front Loader Tractor - Bid Results: Corrie: Okay at this time, we'll have Item No, 4 which is Department Reports, Public Works Department Gary Smith. Watson: Thank you Mayor and Council. Hopefully you have the memo that I sent to you last week. There's just two items on there. The first one is a bid award for a front loader at the Wastewater Treatment Plant. As we discussed earlier today during the budget hearings, the budget presentations, the City watering facility is up and running. They are doing double duty with the backhoe that was the subject of some other conversation. I talked with Mr. Shawcroft, the Superintendent after the budget presentation to get some numbers put together here because I knew the questions would come. He's saying that presently they're using the backhoe about 12 hours a week solely for loading bio-solids into the truck that hauls them off and land applies. He's claiming that this has been budgeted, up to 40,000 dollars. He asked me to put together a bid package. I did that earlier this month. We structured the bid such that they could bid new equipment, used equipment, anything in between. As you can see, we only got two bids. One was for a brand new loader. The one that they had their eye on was the used one at 42,347 dollars. They wanted to purchase that as is and with a canopy instead of a cab, as I had specified. If we delete those two items it brings the expenditure down to 38,500 dollars. As you can see here the one that they, the used one that they're looking at has 700 hours on it. I thought I knew the year until tonight. I started looking through the information now I'm confused between 1986 and 91 but it's in that range. Bird: What year? Meridian City Council Meetil.w July 17, 2001 Page 11 Watson: 86 to 91. Bird: And this has got 700 hours on it? Watson: Yes. Anderson: It was only driven on Sundays by a little old lady. Bird: I was just going to say, it never got out of the garage. Brad, excuse me. Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: Brad, on this, I know we had a discussion during the deal but this is something. The existing backhoe with the front-end loader out there is not big enough to be loading this waste as I understand. Is that not correct? Watson: Councilman bird, Mayor and Council that's what John has told me. They can't really lift full bucket loads with the existing backhoe and it's not really high enough. They're kind of rubbing it in over the sides. For the little wear and tear on both pieces of equipment. This one's a lot higher reach. It has a lot more power. Bird: Yes it's a front-end loader. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: Keith, what he had kind of mentioned to me is they have tried to use the backhoe and have ended up with a great amount of repair to the backhoe because its just not built for this kind of work. Bird: I agree. They've got it in the budget? De Weerd: I have nothing further. Bird: I have nothing further. Go ahead Ron. Corrie: Mr. Anderson. Anderson: I did have a question. Brad, this doesn't look like a very large front- end loader as compared to the backhoe and the bucket size and stuff like that. Has there been thorough research to make sure that this is large enough to do the job? This isn't a real big front-end loader. Meridian City Council Meeth'l:I July 17,2001 Page 12 Watson: Councilman Anderson, Mayor and Council. They in fact test-drove this for about three weeks earlier this spring. That's why they had their eye on this one. I told them we had to go through the formality of bidding it to be legal. They have test drove it and it works fine. It's only as big as it needs to be. Anderson: Okay if they're happy with it. Bird: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: I move that we award the contract for the front end loader to Cesco in the amount of 42,347 dollars contingent upon a change order being executed in the next two weeks that reduces the equipment cost to 38,500 dollars and authorize the Mayor to sign the City Clerk to attest the contract. Anderson: Second. Corrie: Okay. Motion been made and seconded to approve the recommendation of the Public Works and have Cesco Inc. in the contract awarding. Any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion say aye. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT 2. White Drain Trunk Sewer - Easement and Right-of- way Contract Approval: Watson: Thank you Mayor and Council. The second item is an easement and right-of-way contract for the White Drain Trunk Sewer. This is one of the several along that corridor. Specifically it's for John Kennedy who owns property immediately west of the proposed Cedar Springs Subdivision. It's not a very long easement but it was signed last week. We would recommend that the easement right-of-way contract be approved. If there are any questions I'll answer those. Bird: I have none. Corrie: All right, I'll entertain a motion on the recommendation. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: I move that we approve the sewer easement and right-of-way contract of John L. Kennedy and authorize the Mayor to sign and the City Clerk to attest. ! Meridian City Council Meet\,.., July 17, 2001 Page 13 Bird: Second. Corrie: Motion been made and second to approve the sewer easement and right-of-way contract with John L. Kennedy. Any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion say aye. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT B. Parks and Recreation Department - Tom Kuntz 1. Bear Creek Utility Plan Design Agreement: Corrie: Item B, Parks and Rec. Department, Mr. Kuntz. Kuntz: Thank you Mayor and Council. I have one item for your consideration tonight. As part of the design of Phase 1 of Bear Creek Park, we did not include a utility plan because we did not anticipate developing the interior of the park other than grass for at least a couple years. With the anticipated addition of two softball fields, we feel its essential now to install water and power, not only to those areas but also to the different playground, future playground areas. We also recognize that there were no lights planned for the two parking lots so that would be part of also the utility plan. We have for your consideration tonight an agreement from Briggs Engineering to provide that service at 3,500 dollars and for the plan to be completed by the end of July. Staff is recommending approval of the agreement. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: Tom, is this figured in within the budget that's been allocated? Kuntz: Yes ma'am. De Weerd: Okay. Corrie: Any further questions? Bird: I have none. Corrie: Okay. I'll entertain a motion on the request. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. Meridian City Council MeetC" July 17,2001 Page 14 De Weerd: I move that we recommend, or we approve the agreement with Briggs Engineering to provide a utility plan for Sear Creek Park at a cost of 3,500 dollars to be completed by the end of July, to have the Mayor to sign and the clerk attest. Corrie: Do I hear a second? Bird: Second. Corrie: Motion's been made and second to approve the agreement from Briggs Engineering and Sear Creek Park at a cost of 3,500 dollars to be completed by the end of July. Any further discussion? All those in favor of the motion say aye. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT De Weerd: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: I did have a question for Tom. Do we have a signed agreement on that park yet? Kuntz: Council Member de Weerd, that agreement is still in the hands of the developer although we do want to make sure that this utility plan and the installation of the conduit and piping will be added to that plan. I know that they've had, that Tim Taylor has left the company to start his own business and Matt Schultz from JUB has joined Greg Johnson but I haven't heard back from them but I will be following up on that. De Weerd: Thank you. Can you let me know? Kuntz: Yes. De Weerd: Thank you. C. Planning and Zoning Department - Shari Stiles 1. Sundance Investments Development Agreement: 2. Ordinance No. : AZ 01~001 Request for annexation and zoning of 78 acres from R1 to C-C and C-G zones for proposed Silverstone Corporate Center by Sundance Investments Partnership, LLC - southeast corner of South Eagle Road and East Overland Road: Corrie: Okay. Item C-4 Planning and Zoning Shari Stiles. ( Meridian City Council Meatit... July 17. 2001 Page 15 Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council this is the Development Agreement for Silverstone Corporate Center. The project at the southeast corner of Overland and Eagle Road. This was approved for annexation and zoning and the Conditional Use and the plat in April and we have between the attorney's office and my office and the applicant's representative, we've done quite a bit of work on trying to get this just right and acceptable for both parties. The Development Agreement includes revised Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law. Those revisions were minor in nature and were meant more to clarify the intent of the approvals and some typos in some cases. They were not significant changes but I believe they do need to be adopted as part of this Development Agreement. Also we have the ordinance annexing the property. Mr. Anderson is very anxious to get a Building Permit for his first building and also to submit the final plat so he can record the subdivision and start the construction of all the improvements. I can go through some of the changes that were made but Mr. Nichols has been intimately involved in all of the discussions that we've had both between Mr. Anderson and Cornell Larson the architect and Bill McAlvain, their attorney. We believe it's a good document and meets the intent and would like to get this started so we ask that you approve the Development Agreement and authorize the Mayor and Clerk to sign and also approve the Ordinance for Annexation. Corrie: Mr. Clerk I believe you did say that the agreement has been signed. Berg: Yes, it has been signed today. Corrie: Council? Bird: Mr. Mayor, what about the Ordinance? Corrie: We've got the Ordinance. I think we do the Development Agreement and then do the Ordinance right next to it. Bird: Okay. Corrie: I'm sorry (inaudible). Bird: I've got a question for Mr. Nichols. The changes and everything that's been taken care of in this and they in no way are changing any intent of the original Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law? Nichols: Council Member Bird, Mayor, members of the Council. Shari is correct. There were some minor changes to it but the jist of it in terms of the requirements that were put on the developer are not markedly changed. There were just some clarifications. For example, some of the uses that would be allowed in the project, we clarified those. Some of the uses that are prohibited in the project, we clarified those. We didn't know that they didn't like what we had done to Meridian City Council Meetll,,, July 17, 2001 Page 16 begin with until, it was quite a while after Will sent the Development Agreement out until we first got some issuance. That's why this came up after the findings had been approved. They just didn't get us any kind of response for too long. Then the way they did the response delayed the way we could go back to them and see what changes they actually wanted. They took the Development Agreement and rewrote it. Then we had to look at it and see what they had changed and left out and so on. We've got it back to where we're comfortable with it. Its got all the standard things in it that we need in order to make sure the development goes in the way its suppose to be. Bird: Mr. Mayor. This is a follow up to Mr. Nichols. Okay, then, if we changed our findings and facts and stuff that we had approved in a Council meeting, do we need to approve the redone ones and then the Development Agreement? Or just the Development Agreement takes care of that completely? Nichols: Let me just kind of tell you the way I think you need to do it. The Development Agreement has been signed by the developer. The revised findings and facts should be adopted separately. They're not on your agenda to be adopted tonight but the Ordinance is also not on the agenda tonight either. So, you cant really, or did you add it? Corrie: We added it. Nichols: If you adopt, well Shari's got something she wants to say but if you adopt the Development Agreement with those revised findings attached, we could call it good. Then the Ordinance would take care of the annexation. Corrie: Shari. Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council I just wanted to call out that the exhibit C, it's the last sheet, and we're missing a page. These are showing permitted Conditional Use and prohibited uses. I also wanted to point out in that list, I don't have that other page with me but in that list at the request of the developer we did add as a permitted use, post-secondary education facilities so that if they had a college or university come in and want to utilize some of the space in one of the buildings that they wouldn't have to go through a second process. They were happy with that but we are missing that sheet. Bird: Was that the one Shari that's telling us what is permitted in there? Stiles: Well, its not- Bird: Isn't that complete? Stiles: -- complete. I don't know if we have one more --. Will do you have a copy of that sheet? ( Meridian City Council Meeth.., July 17. 2001 Page 17 (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, there are two sheets. They continue with a list of permitted uses then it goes on with the Conditional Uses and the prohibited uses. Corrie: Does he have it? Stiles: Will has it, yes. Gary's making a copy of that right now. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: We have stuck that other in and this is part of it. Mr. Nichols said that by passing this deal we would revise (inaudible). Corrie: But on his recommendation? Bird: Yes. Corrie: He's the one that would have to defend us. Bird: And him and Shari have seen this complete thing so I don't have no problem. I don't have to see it. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Corrie: While we're waiting, did you get hurt with that tree falling back there? Sorry about that, we'll have to get that - big windstorm last night and it kind of broke a few branches that happened to fall on you so I'm sorry about that. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Corrie: Shari is this adequate for what you're asking for? Stiles: Yes. Corrie: Any other questions? Bird: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Bird. ( Meridian City Council Meetil.~ July 17, 2001 Page 18 Bird: If there are no further questions I would move that we accept the Development Agreement with Sundance Investments with the revised findings and facts and for the Mayor to sig n and the Clerk to attest. De Weerd: Second. Corrie: Motion been made and second to approve the Development Agreement Sundance investment Development with the revised findings and facts attached. Any further discussion? Hearing none, Mr. Berg roll call vote please. *** End Of Side One*** Roll-Call: Bird, aye; De Weerd, aye; McCandless, absent; Anderson, aye. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT Corrie: The next one is the Ordinance. What number would that be 01-920? Okay. Would you read Ordinance No. 01-920 by title only at this time? Berg: Thank you Mr. Mayor, members of the Council Ordinance No. 01 w920, an Ordinance finding that certain to be known as Silverstone Corporate Center the location of which lies contiguous or adjacent to the City limits of the City of Meridian, County of Ada and State of Idaho and finding that the owner has made a request for annexation in writing to the Council and that said land be annexed to the City of Meridian in zoning designated commercial business district, C-C and general retail and service commercial district C-G declaring that said land by proper legal description as described below be a part of the City of Meridian, County of Ada and State of Idaho repealing all ordinances, orders or parts thereof in conflict herewith and directing the City Engineer to add such property to the official maps of the City of Meridian Idaho and directing the Clerk of the City of Meridian to file a certified copy of the Ordinance and map of the areas to be annexed with the Ada County Recorder, Auditor and Assessor and the State Tax Commission for the State of Idaho pursuant to Idaho code section 50-223 and section 63-2215. Corrie: Thank you. Is there anyone in the audience that would like to have Ordinance No. 920 read in its entirety? Hearing none, Council? Anderson: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Anderson. Anderson: I'd make a motion that we approve Ordinance No. 01-920, a request for annexation and zoning of 78 acres from R-1 to C-C and C-G zones for proposed Silverstone Corporate Center by Sundance Investment Partnership LLC with suspension of the rules. Meridian City Council MeetC::. July 17, 2001 Page 19 Bird: Second. Corrie: Motion been made and second to approve Ordinance No. 01-920 with a suspension of the rules. Any further discussion? Hearing none, Mr. Berg, roll call vote please. Roll Call: Bird, aye; De Weerd, aye; McCandless, absent; Anderson, aye. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT Item SA. Memorandum of Understanding: Mutual Aide Agreement between Meridian Police Department and Emmett Police Department: Corrie: Now, we will go to Item 5A then we will have Item 58 which will be taking off the Consent Agenda F, G and H. At this point I will have Chief Gordon to review the request of Memorandum of Understanding with Emmett Police. Gordon: Mayor and Council, what this agreement is, is it authorizes our officers to assist Emmett Police for cruise night which is -- smaller agencies can handle problems within their jurisdiction during the year but certai.n events take place. We have an agreement signed right now with Boise, Garden City, and now with Emmett. The River Festival is a good example. We assist Boise. This clears the City as far as liability goes, not only for Emmett but for us. It allows our officers to have full police powers within those jurisdictions. We presently have four signed agreements out right now. Corrie: Discussion? Bird: Mr. Mayor. Anderson: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Anderson. Anderson: Bill I had a question. Is there something that, do they come and assist us back? I mean is this kind of a reciprocating type of agreement or how does this work? Gordon: Yes it is. We haven't requested Emmett to come over here but we could if we needed to. This agreement would allow that. We use Nampa. We use Garden City and we've used Boise on several occasions. I'm sure we would use Nampa. What brought this up is Emmett Chief Hyde requested we come over for cruise night. He's got officers coming from Payette and Nampa and I ( Meridian City Council Meeth.!;, July 17, 2001 Page 20 believe Garden City now us. But it's just for the one event, a one night so we could use them back yes. Anderson: We're paying our officer's salaries while they're over there. Is that correct? Gordon: That's correct. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: Chief, what is cruise night? Anderson: (Inaudible) De Weerd: No that could be every night. Is this one night a year? Gordon: Well, it's an organized cruise. A lot of the old time car clubs go over there. They pick one weekend. It's usually a Saturday night and they get going. It can get out of hand. De Weerd: With the old timers? Gordon: Believe it or not, yes. They know how to drink beer and sometimes it gets out of hand. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Gordon: It's a proven fact that a show of force definitely deters any problems. That's what Chief Hyde is looking for. It's interesting. If you've never been, you need to swing over there Saturday night. De Weerd: This Saturday? Gordon: Yes Ma'am. De Weerd: Oh, okay, just any Saturday? Gordon: No, just this Saturday. De Weerd: I never thought to cruise Emmett. Bird: You might be surprised. It was a pretty good town back in my day. Corrie: Any other questions? Meridian City Council Meeting July 17, 2001 Page 21 Bird: I have none. Anderson: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Anderson. Anderson: I would make a motion that we approve the agreement with Emmett Police Department and Meridian Police Department for mutual aide or whatever that's called, Memorandum of Agreement for mutual aide, authorize the Mayor to sign and the Clerk to attest. Bird: And the Chief to sign. Anderson: And the Police Chief to sign. Bird: Second. Corrie: Okay. Motion made and second to approve the Memorandum of Agreement between the Emmett Police Department and the Meridian Police Department authorize the Mayor and the Chief to sign. Any further discussion? De Weerd: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: I think I have one more question. How many Police Officers will this entail, are you sending over? Gordon: Chief Hyde requested three officers. One bicycle, one motorcycle and then one officer to ride with one of his. They pair up the officers with their people so ours are each one of them is with theirs. They will have a bike officer. They don't have a motorcycle officer but he will be in the downtown area for the traffic. De Weerd: Is this overtime so it's double time or time and a half? Gordon: We try to schedule it on just a scheduled shift. There are times though when over time is involved, yes. This particular night, I'm not sure how the Captain set it up but the first priority is just straight time. De Weerd: Okay but we cover our City first right? Gordon: Yes Ma'am. Boise County requested officers for the Rainbow festival. We were unable to meet their demands so that was one that we didn't get up to because we covered the City first. Meridian City Council Meeting July 17,2001 Page 22 Anderson: And we didn't have 100 extra officers? Gordon: No, we didn't. Bird: I have none. Corrie: Any other discussion? Corrie: Okay hearing none, all those in favor of the motion say aye. Item SF. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT Item 5G. Item SH. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: V AR 01-007 Request for a variance to exceed the maximum 1,000 foot block length for proposed Macaile Meadows Subdivision by Hillview Land Development, LLC - south of Fairview Avenue, north of Pine Street and % mile west of Cloverdale Road: Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: AZ Di- DOS Request for annexation and zoning of 28.59 acres from RUT to R-8 for proposed Macaile Meadows Subdivision by Hillview Land Development, LLC - south of Fairview and west of Cloverdale Roads: Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: PP 01- 006 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 115 building lots and 15 other lots on 28.59 acres in a proposed R-8 zone for proposed Macaile Meadows Subdivision by Hillview Land Development, LLC - south of Fairview and west of Cloverdale Roads: Corrie: Okay next is taken off the Consent Agenda, Item F, G, and H. The Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law for approval Macaile Meadows and also the Facts and Conclusions of Law on the annexation and also I believe for the request for Preliminary Plat. Shari, you (inaudible)? Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council. That would be for the variance, the annexation and zoning and the Preliminary Plat. It's really one issue that effects all three of the findings. If I can get your concurrence on what that should be stating. It has to do with the access to Cloverdale or Fairview or Pine Street extended. I would also like to note that on the exhibit A that's included with the variance and well, -- the plat's fine. The drawing shown at the back of the findings for the Preliminary Plat, that is the plan that was approved. The plan that is attached to the variance is not the one that was finally approved. The issue has to do with the access and I believe the motion was that after 60 lots were built then there would be another access to Fairview, another access to Cloverdale or that Pine Street be extended. On the variance on Page 3, Item 8 it does state that only 60 Building Meridian City Council Meeting July 17. 2001 Page 23 Permits may be obtained until access to Fairview or Pine has been made available. I just wanted to make sure that was what your motion was or whether you were talking about the Cloverdale access, whether that was going to be adequate for the access. Bird: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: I'd have to go back to the tape but I believe it was said that there was no mention of taking away the Cloverdale entrance. The only time they can go over the 60 Building Permit is when they get another road, either to Fairview or to Pine. As I understood it, that Cloverdale does not go away. Anderson: I think the question that they were (inaudible) clarification for was you said either Fairview or Pine. Pine is going to go in when they build it so they wanted to know whether you're putting the limitation on until they build a third access to Fairview or you're just talking about the two at Cloverdate and Pine that then they can build on all 115 lots. Bird: I understood just one more access plus the Cloverdale one was what I meant when I made the motion. I didn't expect two deals to let them go forward but Pine has to be built through. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: I believe there was mention in ACHD's report as a recommendation from staff I think we all need to see the minutes on it but that notation was that there needs to be two entrances into the subdivision. Bird: There are two. De Weerd: That would be Cloverdale and Pine. Bird: Or Fairview. De Weerd: Or Fairview. Bird: That's the way it was but Pine has to be -- I meant it. Pine has to be a through street. I mean, you can build it right down immediately to Pine now but you're just dumping in for a quarter mile. Anderson: So, you're saying until Pine is built over to Eagle Road that they can only build on 60. Meridian City Council Meeting July 17,2001 Page 24 Bird: That's what I meant. Anderson: I would think that's how it came across. Bird: And it probably didn't come across that way. I'd have to look at the minutes 100 percent. I don't remember if we have the minutes. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Corrie: Is the applicant here tonight? Bird: It was mine. Corrie: How did you understand it? Butler: I just had an ulcer. I'm sorry this is very difficult. I don't understand exactly what your condition was but when you talked about it you read, the Council read the condition from staff from ACHD out of the report which was in your packet as part of the Public Hearing. Staff had said that they recommend only 76 homes be platted until a second connection to either Fairview or Cloverdale was made available. At that time, we only proposed one connection. That was down to Pine, not Pine extended but just down to Pine. When we went to the Commission, Commissioner Winecooth is the one who made his motion. He said we recommend approval of staffs conditions with the exception that Option B which was in you packet which shows a connection to Cloverdale not to Fairview. Option A was to Fairview. That Option B be constructed, and again this was in your packet, at the onset of the project as volunteered by the applicant. I have also said in the record that even though staff wanted us to put in this road before the 76th permit, the one out to Cloverdale, we volunteered to help the neighbors out to spend 100 or 150,000 dollars to put this road in at the onset. My ulcer is related to the fact if we have to extend Pine now to Eagle Road or bring in another connection off of Fairview, that is so many offsite requirements that far exceed anything that was ever mentioned in the public record. We hope that you can understand that and realize that we'll have a connection to Pine via Parkdale not out to Eagle Road and a connection out to Cloverdale. That far exceeded what ACHD wanted. You can tell I'm a little choked up about this. So, did that answer your question or clarify hopefully what your condition was to be? Bird: Tammy, I think is the one that made the motion. I believe I seconded. Wasn't it you that (inaudible)? De Weerd: I believe I made the motion. I was just quoting the staff comments out of ACHD's report. I believe Councilwoman McCandless had the concern about the access out onto Eagle. I don't know if its all been misconstrued. Meridian City Council Meeting July 17, 2001 Page 25 Butler: We have gone so far with our traffic studies. De Weerd: It just meant two access points within the subdivision. Butler: That's what we hoped you meant. Bird: That was it. Corrie: I didn't think that it said that you had to do the road all the way to Eagle and Pine. Butler: Thank god and thank the Council. Corrie: But you had to do the exits. She made the motion and the way I remember it is two exits, either Cloverdale and Pine or to Fairview whichever comes first. It looks like its Cloverdale and Pine. Butler: Yes, Cloverdale and Pine was Option B which is what ACHD chose, not the one out to Fairview. The reason there is the difficulty with working with the property to the north. We're able to go through the church property to get to Cloverdale but we've been unsuccessful working with the Grossman family and whoever owns that property to the north to get it to Fairview. Corrie: She made the motion so she would know what she said. De Weerd: I believe I was just referring to the staff comments from ACHD. Butler: We were going beyond that by saying that we're going to build it before the first Building Permit. That was in the staff that was again in the public record. Dave Winecooth said he wanted kudos to be expressed for what we proposed to come over to Meridian but that wasn't in the record. De Weerd: Well, you know if you had only had the one access it wouldn't have been a go, I don't think. Butler: We tried that. Initially, ACHD said you can do the one-- De Weerd: That doesn't matter we have two. Butler: Yes, I understand. Thank you. Anderson: We're clear on the point now? (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Meridian City Council Meeting July 17, 2001 Page 26 Stiles: Do I need to go over the changes in each document or do you want to reflect that, the comment made by the Council that they've taken that requirement away or changed that requirement? Anderson: I thought all he was asking for was clarification of what the motion was. We're not asking to change anything, just to clarify the motion. Bird: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: The second is Fairview or Pine so he's got the two. Bird: It didn't say and, it doesn't say and. Corrie: It says Of, Fairview or Pine. He has one at Cloverdale going through that second one. Stiles: The way they are written does not indicate what you were just talking about. Bird: Nothing says -- Anderson: Condition 59 says obtain access to Fairview or Pine has been made available. Bird: Yes, but Ron what she's saying is where does it say Cloverdale? Stiles: I have a suggestion for changing the wording in several areas. Just one change but it would effect several different sections. Corrie: What would that be? Stiles: On the variance Page 3, Item 8, change the last line of that paragraph to read be obtained until a second access -- oh well that's not what you were -- that's what I thought you were talking about. Nevef mind. Only 60 Building Permits may be obtained until a second access to Cloverdale has been constructed. They've already offered to do it before they ever get the first permit. Butler: Excellent. Bird: That's the primary one. Nichols: Mr. Mayor, members of the Council that's why we want to have position statements so we know what we have to fix. I apologize for not getting this straight. My intent was there be two accesses. If you say a second access onto Cloverdale it sounds like you've got two accesses to Cloverdale and there's only one. If we'll go down through these, if you'll highlight each one that's wrong, we'll Meridian City Council Meeting July 17, 2001 Page 27 fix them one by one tonight. Then the Council can adopt them with those changes and I'll get clean ones to the Council. If, like in that last line of Paragraph 8 on the variance, Page 3, after the word available put in addition to the access to Cloverdale. Stiles: In addition to the existing access to Cloverdale? Nichols: It's not built yet is it? Butler: To the proposed access? Stiles: What Ada County Highway District requires and the Fire Department require are two accesses into a subdivision. Their access they are proposing is Driftwood from Cloverdale and then their second access would be the road extension back to Cloverdale. Nichols: I'm- Bird: I'm really confused now Shari because the way I understood it - Anderson: It turns into Pine. Bird: The north part of the property's going along the - the existing north road of the Cloverdale church is going to be extended to go into this subdivision. Okay, that's the primary, that's the first one in. Then they are going to run -- they're going to run the south deal down and come out on Pine which is already there. There's nothing to stop the people from turning and trying to go to Cloverdale through that Driftwood but, my understanding of this whole concept was this north entryway through the churches north road property that they've got back so far was your primary and your first entry. Is that not right? Butler: Well, it became that Mr. Bird but it's confusing because the first primary entry was Pine. So, a lot of staff Shari and ACHD refers to Cloverdale as our second access because we put it, we proposed it after the Pine but it will become the primary access. I think you have a language gap here. Bird: When Councilwoman de Weerd made the motion and stuff, then Cloverdale was a given. Butler: Exactly. Bird: You can get your 60 permits, as I understood it, as long as that was in which that had to be in before you got any permits. Butler: That's what I thought. Meridian City Council Mooting July 17,2001 Page 28 Bird: Then when you got either the access to Pine or to Fairview, then you could have the rest of your permits. Butler: That's what I thought. Bird: That Cloverdale one was a given from the word go. I mean that's the primary access you're going to deal with. Butler: Yes, it became that. Yes, you're right I'm just simply -- Bird: Is that not right? Butler: Simply a condition that says construct a connection to Parkdale and a connection out to Cloverdale prior to the first Building Permit would be fine to us. That will even get you even better than where you're at because we're going to build them both before we do one Building Permit. Bird: But, you don't show it in your exhibit A. There's no north road. Nichols: That could be our fault Mr. Bird. It could be our wrong exhibit. This plat here, the one that's attached to the Preliminary Plat findings -- excuse me, Mayor, members of the Council. One is attached to the Preliminary Plat findings in this plat that you're seeing on the screen right now. If, when we're referencing access to Cloverdale, if it said in addition to the access from Cloverdale to the northeast corner of the subdivision that would clarify which Cloverdale access we're talking about in addition to the extension down to Pine, I think. Would it not Shari, if we specified it that way or maybe even adding the words so that it reads in addition to the access, the applicant will build from Cloverdale to the northeast corner of his subdivision. Stiles: I just wan to know which way they meant. They have the access up here. This access that's shown here with the arrow, that's what they propose to construct prior to even the first building permit being issued. Corrie: That goes to Cloverdale? Stiles: That goes to Cloverdale, go through the church property to Cloverdale. Their other access will be they have to go through Westdale Subdivision and they could go out to Cloverdale. Now, has this been extended through to Pine? Butler: Yes it is. Bird: (Inaudible). Butler: You had that question at the beginning of the Public Hearing. Meridian City Council Meeting July 17,2001 Page 29 Stiles: Pine is built all the way along the boundary of your property it just hasn't been extended any further west? Butler: Correct. Bird: Its expanded to the school. Butler: Oh, excuse me yes. Bird: You're not to the school. Butler: No, it's to the end of the school. Bird: You're not to the school where it comes across. You're pretty close to the school but there's a commercial building there just to the east of where it comes out. Is that right? Butler: There is. Bird: My thinking was the reason to have that other access to Pine instead of from Driftwood was that was one of the complaints from the public, they didn't want the added traffic going through Driftwood which I understood. But when they get to Pine and go out, they've got a stoplight for one thing. That's the nice deal right there. I thought the north entrance from Cloverdale to the property was a given. That was it that was a primary entrance. De Weerd: So, as it's written its fine? Bird: Yes, I think so. Butler: That's why I didn't want a position statement. It looks okay to me as long as Shari understands it. Stiles: So Mark I just want to ask you again. The access to Pine from Westdale Park Subdivision is fully constructed? Butler: Yes of course we haven't built our subdivision yet but it's asphalted from this boundary. Stiles: To Westdale Park southern boundary. So, they are accessing Pine Street from Westdale Park Subdivision. Butler: Fully paved. Stiles: Sidewalks-- Meridian City Councll Meeting July 17, 2001 Page 30 Butler: Curb, gutter sidewalks yes. Stiles: Okay. Bird: They said it was. Butler: We'll be tearing it up a bit to put in the chokers for the residence which will limit the traffic going back and forth on Westdale, those that go in this location here. Stiles: Well, we still might need to clean up that wording then because if 60 Building Permits may be obtained until access to Fairview or Pine has been made available, they'll have access to Pine with their first building. De Weerd: Yes. Butler: We will do that. Corrie: That's fine. Stiles: Okay. Corrie: They can have all - Bird: Then they can have all their Building Permits as long as they've got the road, a two lane right road and approved road to Cloverdale on the north boundary. Anderson: That's what Shari is saying, these findings don't reflect that but I had some suggested wording here. It would read something about Macaile Meadows Subdivision but presently only 6 Building Permits may be obtained until access both to Cloverdale on the northeast and Pine Street to the south has been made available. De Weerd: It works. Butler: It'll work with us. Corrie: What was the other one? Is that the only one? Stiles: Are you talking - you've talked about a 3D-foot right-of-way is that what you're proposing on that road out to Cloverdale? Butler: The width will vary. ACHD is requiring a 24-foot wide asphalted road for two lanes and a three-foot gravel shoulder on each side. Depending on what type of drainage we need on each side that width could vary. It's an easement. Meridian City Council Meeting July 17, 2001 Page 31 Stiles: So, no sidewalks it's not a public road? Butler: It's for the public. There's easement to ACHD for public use but it's not a right~of~way and again that's in the staff report. ACHD wasn't certain that in the fullness of time they wanted that to be the final location. So, it may be at some point in the future they would have a new road coming in through Grossman's property to the north. I'm sorry Gibson but it will be a public road open to the public. Stiles: That would effect Item 8 on Page 3 of the Findings and Fact for the variance and also on Page 9 Paragraph 1. On the Preliminary Plat it would be on Page 13 Item 59. I think everybody knows where we're coming from now. There is something in the findings for the annexation and zoning. I'm not quite sure what this comment was on Page 14 Item 6. It says adopt the recommendation of the Meridian Police Departments as follows, an entrance from the Meridian City limits shall be required. Bird: I was just looking at that too Shari. I don't understand that. Stiles: I know that there was some question with both the comment made by Fife Chief Kenny Bowers that he is concerned about the additional length required and that they will have to go all the way to Cloverdale to get back to this subdivision. I guess that's up to us to put more pressure on ACHD to get that Pine Street extension complete. Corrie: Isn't there emergency access thefe anyway? Bird: I don't know if you can go down that road there Mayor. I don't know if you could in the wintertime or not. You can probably do it now but it's just a dirt road they used -- if you ran the sewer, it's just an easement isn't it? A sewer easement? Corrie: Okay. Butler: I'm.glad Shari brought that up. We were a little worried about that but we felt that we we're connecting to the Meridian City limits here so we thought that if it became an issue later that we could deal with it. I'm glad you're talking about it now frankly because that was one of the other issues in here that I was crunching my fingernails on. Bird: I wish the Chief was in here. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Meridian City Council Meeting July 17, 2001 Page 32 Anderson: The issue is that basically, the Boise City limits cut half way through there on Driftwood. That access to the south of Pine would actually be in Meridian city limits but when Pine Avenue is completed then that access will be there. I think that's what they were probably meaning that they didn't want to have to go clear around to Cloverdale at such time after Pine Avenue was completed. Bird: But they will until Pine is run through Ron. Anderson: That's what I'm saying. That's exactly what I'm saying. When Pine Avenue is completed they wont have to go into Boise City limits. Unidentified Speaker: I just hope that they can live with this in the mean time. This school is there already so you think they would consider that. Anderson: If you do it any other way then you're asking them to construct Pine Street out to Eagle Road. Bird: Read No. 6 there. An entrance from the Meridian City limits shall be required. If I read that right, if you leave that in there I'm like Shari that says that you've got to come from our City limits. . Anderson: You are right now with that street to the south. Bird: No you're not because our City limits don't start until you get there so you have to go into Boise and then come back to us. Anderson: Is that school in -- Bird: The school is in ours. That's right. Anderson: Then that connects -- Bird: And Pine is there but you go into Boise and then come back to us. That's the only way you're going to get access to it anyway until Pine is done. Anderson: Right. Bird: We need verification on that though. Anderson: You go into Boise but that access is in Meridian. Bird: That's in the Meridian City limits but you come through Boise to get to it. Corrie: Yes, but it doesn't say that. Meridian City Council Meeting July 17, 2001 Page 33 De Weerd: Not if it says it. The subdivision to the south of it is the City limits though. Bird: We need to just make sure that's clarified. De Weerd: The entrance you go into the City limits. Bird: Everybody understands that but they don't meet coming from our City limits through. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Corrie: I think we]re trying to do the legal work and we]re not qualified. Mr. Nichols. Nichols: Mr. Mayor] members of the Council, don't sell yourself short. The reason these things come up is when you pass a motion that says with staff and agency conditions, we take those agency sheets and we put them in the findings. That came directly off the sheet from the Police Department. That's where it comes from. Corrie: Is that not an entrance from the Meridian City limits? Nichols: I would say that. I can't define what the Police Department intended. If they intended that they want to have a direct route and not have to travel outside the City limits to come back in that's what they should have said but as I interpret it, there will be an access on Pine from within the City of Meridian into the subdivision even if they have to travel outside to get to it. That's just one of those odd things about this in fill development. Anderson: That's a temporary situation. Nichols: Well, we hope. De Weerd: Well, as defined by ACHD. Corrie: Okay. Do you want that kept in as it reads? Bird: It's a staff recommendation you have to keep it in. De Weerd: It needs to stay in. Corrie: Was that your question Shari? Meridian City Council Meetih!:j July 17, 2001 Page 34 Stiles: I don't think you have to keep the staff comment as a part of your decision and order. It might be part of the findings but I think that if you need clarification then you need to clarify it in that decision and order because all of ~~ there's the Findings and then the Conclusions and then the Decision and Order. If you decide to remove a decision then that's where it would be taken out is either in the Conclusions or the Decision and Order. Anderson: I guess what we're saying is its an accurate statement. It doesn't need to be changed or modified. Stiles: As long as everybody knows what that means. Butler: I think the attorney clarified it very well. Anderson: I think we're pretty clear on it now on the record here. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Stiles: As long as it gets built within the next year and it's not something that drags out and gets variances for extending the time. I mean, it could be subject to interpretation at a later date that's all I'm worried about. Butler: I think as an applicant's representative we're happy with the attorney's comments that are on the record. We'll certainly use those later if we need to. Stiles: So, on the annexation and zoning it would be Page 4, Item 13 that needs clarification on the access. Page 6, Paragraph 7 and Page 14, Paragraph 7.1 think the numbering is a little -- Butler: Just a little off right there. I think there's a 7 and 12 or something like that. Stiles: I don't know it's a little. It goes from 7 to 18. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Unidentified Speaker: It probably should have been letters or something. Those are sub numbers under an original number that's on the previous page. Nichols: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Nichols. Nichols: Councilman Anderson is the language that you suggested -- so we're all looking in the same place, Page 3 on the variance Paragraph 8. The last phrase, as I understood your statement was but presently only 60 Building Permits may Meridian City Council MeetirlY July 17, 2001 Page 35 be obtained until access both to Cloverdale on the northeast and Pine Street on the south has been made available. Is that your statement? Anderson: Yes Will corrected me its Pine Avenue, not Street. Stiles: It depends on what part of town you're in. Bird: That wasn't the way the motion was made on the deal. What if, I realize Pine is already in? What if something happens and they decide to cut that off and they pull through Fairview first? 1 believe that we have to word it like Mr. Nichols said where Cloverdale is a primary thing. When Tammy made the motion she understood and we give an either. They can have more when they either had Pine or Fairview. I think we need to leave the or Fairview in don't you? Anderson: No I don't because the main access -- you1re right probably the majority of the traffic will come off Cloverdale but the main access to this is down there off of Pine Avenue. As Mark indicated that access to Cloverdale, ACHD has indicated that that may not be a permanent one and they may opt for later on an access to Fairview. I think what I'm hearing tonight is very clear, they're going to use Cloverdale and Pine not Fairview at this point because there's no way they're going to get access through this property to the north at this time. So, it would be built through those two accesses. Bird: I agree but the motion was made that we also have Pine or Fairview and I believe that should be left unless we want to redo. I don't see any problem with leaving that. I don't think you can eliminate Fairview as a second option. De Weerd: I think the motion was that you had two accesses and there were no specific accesses even mentioned. It was just a notation from the ACHD staff recommendations. I don't think you have to name any of them. It just has to have two accesses into that subdivision. Bird: As long as one of them is in the City limits. De Weerd: I remember saying two accesses. I don't believe I said any street names did I? Corrie: You said Pine and Cloverdale. De Weerd: Well, that's where my memory goes. We need the minutes if we want -- Anderson: If you want to clarify it, you could just say presently only 6 Building Permits may be obtained -- \. Meridian City Council Meeting July 17, 2001 Page 36 De Weerd: 60. Anderson: 60 until two access points have been made available. Bird: But then you've got to stay within the City limits because your other stuff says that. They could come in and have two by going with the church. Now the church down on the south boundary has a pretty nice road that comes out from their deal there that these guys could hook to. You could have a circle coming out of Cloverdale. That's why I feel, and I'm pretty positive that Tammy specified Pine or Fairview and I think we need to keep that in there. The specification of the roads. If not, I know they won't but they could do that. Anderson: (Inaudible) what she wants here then we're going to write that into it. Corrie: Do you want to leave Fairview or Pine there and then add the words in addition to Cloverdale? De Weerd: I believe I just referred -- if the two obvious points of entry were Cloverdale and Pine. Corrie: Then somebody -- we need to get this thing done. You want to have it Pine and -- until access to Pine and Cloverdale is made available you can that (inaudible). Bird: Changes. That will have to be changed in everything. Corrie: Yes, in all three of those, the variance, the annexation and zoning and also the Preliminary Plat. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Bird: This off road is already back to where your property basically starts isn't it back from the house? Butler: Yes. Bird: The south road is? Butler: Yes it is. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) De Weerd: I can't see any problem with how it was stated. Bird: And I can't see any problem with Fairview or Pine. (Inaudible). Meridian City Council Meeting July 17, 2001 Page 37 De Weerd: How did you suggest Ron? Anderson: Just saying what it is that we're hearing from the developer that those are the two that they're going to use. Just state that and clarify that. Access from Cloverdale in the northeast and Pine (inaudible). Bird: Mr. Mayor. De Weerd: I wish I had my notes in front of me. Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: I see where Councilman Anderson's coming from. You know we passed, and I remember, we passed before the public and this was quite a controversial development and we passed before the public. Before I would vote to take Fairview or Pine out of there I would want to see how Councilwoman de Weerd's motion was. When you pass a motion and get the Findings and Facts and stuff in here, that's not the time for us to start changing our motion. I don't see where it hurts to leave Pine or Fairview as a second access. That's what it was meant as. Anderson: Because we were confused on the issue. Obviously because its not a choice of Fairview or Pine it's a choice of Fairview or Cloverdale. Those are the two options to the north. The one on Pine has always been planned to go in and that's still going in. Bird: But the basic of that motion was given that the first road in for this subdivision was the northeast corner off of Cloverdale which is already got the deal. I understand Pine is but they were not, If I remember right, in their first phase they are not going to even have the road coming down. Am I right? To the Pine exit? Butler: No, we're connecting both before we do any Building Permits. We will connect both. We will connect both to the road to Pine and to Cloverdale before we do one Building Permit. Anderson: Like Tammy said the intent is two accesses. Bird: That's right. Anderson: This will do it. Fairview is not an option. Bird: Fairview could be an option. Corrie: I think we discussed that. I would like to entertain a motion here somewhere, either to table this until we look at the minutes of what was actually Meridian City Council Meeting July 17, 2001 Page 38 said or to make the three changes in the documents to say that presently only 60 Building Permits may be obtained until access to Pine has been made available including Cloverdale, or however you want to put it. De Weerd: So, I'm referencing the annexation and zoning Page 14 NO.7 to delete after until and replace it with to continue after until access both to Cloverdale on the northeast and Pine Avenue on the south has been made available. Corrie: This is on the annexation and zoning - ***End Of Side Two*** Corrie: Okay. Read that again so we can get it on the record. Bird: Read that motion again Tammy. De Weerd: Well, I just passed it to Bill. Corrie: Will's going to make the deal. Here it is for the record. De Weerd: I'm referencing then, yes, for this paragraph. I'll just read the whole thing okay? The applicant requests the development of 115 building lots and 15 other lots for the proposed Macaile Meadows Subdivision, but presently only 60 Building Permits shall be obtained until access to both Cloverdale on the northeast and Pine on the south has been made available. Corrie: The vote was for the variance, the Preliminary Plat and the annexation on all three of those items as amended by Mr. Anderson. Tabled from July 3, 2001: FP 01-007 Final Plat approval of 36 building lots and 2 other lots on 10.66 acres in an R-4 zone for Bear Creek Subdivision No.2 by Briggs Engineering - east of South Stoddard and south of West Overland Road: Corrie: Now, we're on NO.7? All right, Item No, 7 is tabled from July the 3rd Final Plat approval of 36 building lots and 2 other lots on 10.66 acres in an R-4 zone for Bear Creek Subdivision No. 2 by Briggs Engineering, east of south Stoddard and south of West Overland Road. Staff, this was tabled. He wants to table it again is this correct? You want to table again until the -- well we don't have a meeting the 31st. Item 7. Bird: The ih of August. Corrie: The 7th of August. Are you the applicant? Who is here from the Final Plat on this Bear Creek Subdivision? \ Meridian City Council Meeting July 17, 2001 Page 39 De Weerd: I don't see anyone. Corrie: There isn't anybody here. We got a letter stating they wanted to be placed on the July 31st meeting. We don't have a meeting. It has to be the th of August so I would entertain a motion to table this until the th of August. Bird: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: I move that we table the Final Plat approval of 36 building lots and 2 other lots for Bear Creek Subdivision NO.2 by Briggs Engineering to August 7,2001. Anderson: Second. Corrie: Motion made and second to table Item No. FP 01-007 Bear Creek Subdivision No. 2 Final Plat until August the 7th of this year. Any further discussion? Watson: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: I'm sorry, Gary. Watson: Mr. Mayor, may I make a comment? Corrie: Yes sir. Watson: We've run this subdivision through our computer model and we've utilized fire hydrant flows on Overland Road for calibration of our computer model. We provided the results of that analysis to the developers. They don't believe what we're telling them. That's the reason for their request to have this, their subdivisions both 2 and 3 tabled. Anderson: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Anderson. Anderson: Gary, in their letter here they state that they would like to do an on site test and compare the actual numbers to what this computer modeling is. I really support that because I think all it takes is someone to punch in some wrong numbers or something else. I think its good to verify the actual numbers in that computer modeling so I don't disagree with what they're doing. I would want to actually verify them. Meridian City Council Meeting July 17, 2001 Page 40 Watson: That's fine Councilman Anderson. I just wanted to relate to you what we did in order to get to where we are with our analysis. It was based on modeling the flow out of the fire hydrant at Overland and Stoddard. That was taken the flow from that fire hydrant was plugged into the computer model to calibrate the model. Then Bear Creek Subdivision was modeled for flow, fire flow and domestic flow based on that actual hydrant flow. We can certainly compare the results of the fire hydrants flow now that it's active and se how the model reacts with that. Corrie: Any other discussion? We have a motion before the Council to table this final plat until August 7, 2001. All those in favor of the motion say aye. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT Item 8. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Item 9. Item 10. Public Hearing: VAR 01-009 Request for a variance to reduce the minimum block length in a proposed R-4 zone for proposed Staten Park Subdivision by D'Alessio Building Development, Inc. - southeast corner of North Black Cat Road and West Ustick Road: Continued Public Hearing from July 3, 2001: AZ 01 ~009 Request for annexation and zoning of 8.15 acres from RUT to R-4 zones for proposed Staten Park Subdivision by D'Alessio Building Development -- southeast corner of North Black Cat Road and West Ustick Road: Continued Public Hearing from July 3, 2001: PP 01~012 Request for preliminary plat approval of 23 building lots and 5 other lots on 8.15 acres in a proposed R-4 zone for proposed Staten Park Subdivision by D'Alessio Building Development - southeast corner of North Black Cat Road and West Ustick Road: Corrie: Okay, Item No.8, No.9 and No. 10 has to do with NO.8 for the variance of Staten Park Subdivision. NO.9 is a request for annexation and zoning and No. 10 is a Public Hearing also, a continuation of the request for Preliminary Plat. With the Council's approval I will open the Public Hearing on NO.8 and continue the Public Hearing on 9 and 10 and we'll put them all together and have public comment on all of those. We will have staff comments first then the developer. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: I did have a question on the order of this. Do we consider first the annexation and zoning and then the variance and then the Preliminary Plat? Meridian City Council Meeting July 17, 2001 Page 41 (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) De Weerd: Consider the variance before its annexed? Okay. Corrie: It's variance and then the annexation and then the Preliminary Plat. That's right. Okay, Shari. Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council the variance is to reduce the minimum block length required. We usually see requests to exceed the maximum but they are proposing a block that's less than, I think its 300 is our minimum, 500. 500 is the minimum block length. Staff does support this variance for the block length. You can see on the plat, the proposed plat. It would be this block right in the center that's less than 500 feet. I don't know if there are any of the others that are. That was the reason that they submitted this application for a variance. You did see this project before, Staten Park Subdivision. The changes that have been made since that time are -- a lot was removed from this area and they made these lots wider. They also increased the size of this lot, the entrance into the subdivision. They have included not just the pathway to the Eight Mile Lateral but they were also proposing a common lot and a pathway that would traverse this southern boundary and come back on the easterly boundary back up to the street. Those are the major modifications to the original proposal. They can expand on any of those that there any in addition to that. That is the project. If you have any questions- Corrie: Council, any questions for staff at this point. Anderson: I had one on the fencing on the other proposal they were proposing chain link fence on there. What are they talking about now along the pathway? Stiles: The applicant has stated that they were proposing a four-foot high solid wood fence. Corrie: Developer. D'Alessio: Mayor Corrie, members of the Council my name is Dan D'Alessio. For the record I reside at 6314 North Park Meadow Way in West Boise. I am the applicant for the proposed Staten Park Subdivision. Just a quick overview. Staten Park will be a small high end in fill subdivision. Our application meets and exceeds the requirements of the City of Meridian and the State Tax Commission. This parcel is contiguous with existing City limits. Our request for R-4 zoning is compatible with adjacent properties and with the Comprehensive Land Use designation of single-family residential. This parcel is within the Urban Service Planning Area and essential City services are already available. We've applied for a waiver for the portion of Block 2. That is less than the required SOO-foot minimum. This is required because the entire parcel is only 536 feet. In { Meridian City Council Meeting July 17, 2001 Page 42 consideration of the minimum 50-foot roadway, any east-west street could only be less than SOO-foot. Irrigation water, we will be tied into Wilkins's Ranch Irrigation System owned and maintained by the Nampa Meridian Irrigation District. The 12-foot offset at Campfire and Morning Star is within the 18 feet allowed by the ACHD and the ACHD has made no objections. There's been no opposition to Staten Park from any of the City agencies or the surrounding neighbors. Staten Park was brought before this Council last February 20tti. Some of the Council Members expressed concerns about a missed opportunity to create higher end subdivision. In effort to accommodate these Council's suggestions, the following upgrades have been made to the original plat. As Shari had mentioned, along the northern border (inaudible) and we've increased those lots along Ustick from 8,000 to 8500 square feet. That's lot 3,4,5, and 6. Along the eastern border of the property, we completely eliminated one lot increasing those lots from 8,000 square feet to 10,000 square feet. The minimum house sizes have been increased from 1450 to 2100 square feet with the exception of the 4 lots along Ustick Road. They will have 1600 square-foot minimums, so far above the City and surrounding subdivision minimums. Along the southern border of the property and adjacent to the Eight Mile Lateral, we will be installing over 1,000 feet of asphalt paved walking path. This path will be five feet wide with an additional foot and a half of landscaping on each side. There will be a 4-foot high solid wood fence, neighbor friendly fence by the way on the south side of the pathway between the Eight Mile Lateral. As you can see on this plat, a typical crosswalk section will have stamped concrete brick paving. These changes were made in an effort to assure this Council of a high end in fill sub that will be a far better use of land for the City of Meridian than was previously submitted. If you have any questions, shoot. Bird: I have none. Corrie: Council, any questions? Bird: I have none Mayor. Nichols: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Nichols. Nichols: Mr. Mayor, members of Council something for Mr. D'Alessio in the file. On the fence you've asked for an extension in the latticework. Do you want to review that with the Council so that when they -- well if they move to approve this I need some clarification on that issue. D'Alessio: This is a 4-foot solid wood fence. I feel that they should, these lots along here, should be able to have a 6-foot fence for privacy whether it be a 2- foot lattice addition which is the staff has recommended or a solid 6-foot fence. ( Meridian City Council Meeting July 17, 2001 Page 43 Anderson: So, what are you asking? You're wanting people to be able to put a 6-foot fence? D'Alessio: These people should be able to have a 6-foot fence whether it be a solid 4-foot fence, 2-foot lattice - Anderson: At the top so you can see through it. D'Alessio: Right, just so they can have privacy. I feel that a 4-foot fence along here, especially (inaudible) really hurt those lots. So, this should really (inaudible). Anderson: Is there a fence on both sides of that pathway? Is that what you're showing there in that drawing? D'Alessio: This here would be the fence along the back boundary of this property. Then you'll have a walking path and then there will be a small 4-foot fence between the water and the walking path. 4-foot wood fence solid. Anderson: So, you'd have a fence on each of the pathway? D'Alessio: Right. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: Shari, what -- in the new Landscaping Ordinance -- I believe there's some pathway standards. It really limits the 6-foot fence and that's probably why they went to the 4-foot but it didn't talk about any extensions on top of that does it? It has to be a see through fence now that's how I remember it. That's why I'm asking. Stiles: I couldn't tell you what it says exactly. The reason for - some kind of visibility back there otherwise it just becomes a place for crime. Even if there's not maybe somebody in the backyard directly looking through if there's a perception that somebody can see them the chances are less that they are going to be doing some illegal activity. So, the idea is to have any pathways visible. D'Alessio: Just to make something clear. This is the 4-foot fence. That's the fence between the waterway and the path. De Weerd: Right. Meridian City Council Meeting July 17, 2001 Page 44 D'Alessio: It's the property line fence. I feel that they should be able to have a 6- foot height even if that last two feet is latticing some kind of privacy along those lots. De Weerd: It depends on what kind of lattice if you can see through it or not. Anderson: The other problem with lattice is people (inaudible) plant vining type of plant to kind of fill in that lattice then it does obscure it. In a sense you have the type of 6-foot solid fence. I guess I need to know what our City Ordinance says to know whether, on pathways and fencing to know whether what you're asking for is against our Ordinance or not. D'Alessio: If it comes down to it, if it's a 4-foot fence or nothing, I'll take a 4-foot fence. De Weerd: Well, we could probably leave that point to work out with staff. It's either a 4-foot fence, or - Anderson: If our Ordinance allows a 6-foot - (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Anderson: I appreciate the redesign work that you've done on this and dropping some of the lots and taking this to a little higher scale and upping the minimum square footages and things like that. I just wanted to commend you on doing that. D'Alessio: Thank you. Anderson: I wish more developers would take a look at what you're doing. don't think you'll have too much problem selling these - D'Alessio: I don't think so. Anderson: -- these lots with what you've done to it. D'Alessio: We've already got four builders ready to go. De Weerd: Great. I share those sentiments. D'Alessio: Thank you. Corrie: Okay. Anything else? D'Alessio: Not if you don't have any questions. ( Meridian City Council Meeting July 17, 2001 Page 45 Corrie: Okay. Thank you. D'Alessio: Thank you. Corrie: Anyone from the audience who would like to issue testimony on these three requests? Hearing none and seeing none, Council, anything you want to ask on the record for Public Hearing? Bird: I have nothing. Anderson: I have nothing. Corne: If not, I'd entertain a motion to, put that back on - Anderson: I make a motion you put your cozy thing back on. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: It's been a long day. Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: I move we close all three Public Hearings for Staten Park Subdivision Items 8, 9, and 10. Bird: I will second that. Corrie: Okay. Motion been made and seconded to close the Public Hearing and the Continued Public Hearing on Items 8, 9, and 10 of Staten Park Subdivision. Any further discussion? All those in favor of the motion say aye. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT Corrie: Okay. Discussion on the variance? De Weerd: I have none. Corrie: Okay. I'll entertain a motion then if there's no other further discussion on the request for variance to reduce the minimum block length. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: I move that we approve the request for variance to reduce the minimum block length in the proposed Staten Park Subdivision, to have the Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law drawn up. ( Meridian City Council Meeting July 17, 2001 Page 46 Bird: Second. Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded to approve the variance to reduce the minimum block length in a proposed R-4 zone for Staten Park Subdivision and for the attorney to draw up the Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law. Any further discussion? Hearing none, roll call vote Mr. Clerk. Roll Call: Bird, aye; De Weerd, aye; McCandless, absent; Anderson, aye. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT Corrie: Any further discussion on the request for annexation and zoning? De Weerd: No. Bird: I have none. Corrie: Hearing none, I'll entertain a motion on that request. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: I move we approve the request for annexation and zoning of 8.15 acres from RTU to R-4 for the proposed Staten Park Subdivision, to include all staff comments and to have the attorney draw up the appropriate Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and decision of order. Bird: Second. Corrie: Okay, Motion made and seconded to approve the request for annexation and zoning on AZ. 01-009 and to include staff comments and for the Attorney to draw up Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law. Any further discussion? Hearing none, roll call vote Mr. Berg. Roll Call: Bird, aye; De Weerd, aye; McCandless, absent; Anderson, aye. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT Corrie: Any other discussion on the request for Preliminary Plat? Hearing none, I'll entertain a motion on the Preliminary Plat. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. \ Meridian City Council Meeting July 17, 2001 Page 47 De Weerd: I move that we approve the request for Preliminary Plat approval of 23 building lots and 5 other lots on 8.15 acres to include the condition that the applicant work with staff on a fence that is acceptable in our current Ordinance for pathways on the property line side of the path to include all staff comments and ask that the city Attorney draw up the Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law. Anderson: Second. Corrie: Motion been made and seconded to approve the request for Preliminary Plat 01-012 and have the applicant work with the staff on the fencing of the pathway. Also to include all staff comments and the Attorney to draw up the proper Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law on the request for the preliminary plat. Any other comments? Roll call vote please Mr. Berg. Roll Call: Bird, aye; De Weerd, aye; McCandless, absent; Anderson, aye. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT Bird: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: I'd move that we have a 10-minute recess. Anderson: Second. Corrie: Okay. Come back and do 11, 12 and 13. Bird: Yes. Corrie: Okay. Reconvened At 8:59 P.M. Item 11. Public Hearing: AZ 01-008 Request for Annexation and zoning of 12.71 acres from R1 and RUT to C-G and R-40 zones for proposed Baltic Place Subdivision by L.C. Development, Inc. - Franklin Road west of Locust Grove Road: Item 12. Public Hearing: PP 01-009 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 10 building lots and 3 other lots on 12.71 acres in proposed C-G and R-40 zones for proposed Baltic Place Subdivision by L.C. Development, Inc. - Franklin Road west of Locust Grove Road: Meridian City Council Meeting July 17,2001 Page 48 Item 13. Public Hearing: CUP 01-015 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a Planned Unit Development for mixed use Residential/Commercial in proposed C-G and R-40 zones for proposed Baltic Place Subdivision by LC. Development, Inc. - Franklin Road west of Locust Grove Road: Corrie: I'll open the meeting back from the recess. Items No, 11, 12 and 13 are Public Hearings for Baltic Place Subdivision by LC. Development, Inc. The first Public Hearing is a request for annexation and zoning of 12.71 acres from R-1 to RUT to C-G and R-40 zone. Item 12 is a Public Hearing request for Preliminary Plat for 10 building lots and 3 other lots on 12.71 acres and 13 is a request for a Conditional Use Permit for a Planned Unit Development for mixed-use residential/commercial in proposed C-G and R-40 zones for the Baltic Place Subdivision. At this time I will open all three Public Hearings, 11, 12, and 13. We will have staff comments first. Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council. This is for the property immediately west of the Stonebridge Subdivision, the industrial subdivision that was developed by John Barnes. To the west of the property is the Meridian Cemetery. On the south is the Hunter Lateral. This would be where the new police station would be constructed. On the recommendations to the City Council, I did a position statement. It has Steve's name on it but that was because he had made those comments to me before he left on vacation. The applicant has submitted a response to the recommendations. Staffs initial conditions were since this was in a planned development area in the Meridian Comprehensive Plan that all uses had to be developed under the Conditional Use Process. The Planning and Zoning Commission made their recommendation on the annexation and zoning that on Page 3 Items 3 A through K would require a Conditional Use. These are items that currently permitted uses in the C-G zone. I would like to add to those Conditional Uses, indoor and outdoor entertainment centers and Planned Commercial Development because of the definition that we have for Planned Commercial Development is so vague that it could be practically anything. The indoor and outdoor entertainment centers just because of the volume of traffic that could be generated by something like that we would like to do that under the Conditional Use Process. They're proposing commercial lots fronting on Franklin Road. All of these lots would be in the proposed C-G zone. The recommendation from Planning and Zoning Commission was that they allow a 5- foot buffer in lieu of the 20 or 25-foot buffer on the east side and also on the west side where the R-40 zone is and that a 10-foot is still required on the commercial property. The Hunter Lateral, it's a strange configuration because this for some reason this piece all of this Hunter Lateral is owned by the Meridian Cemetery. They are proposing to try to make some kind of amenity, a visual amenity for the subdivision adjacent to that. It is a nice area, has been used for walking for some time. I see we have a representative from the Cemetery Board here. Hopefully he will have some comments regarding that. The applicant's understanding that the recommendation that the Hunter Lateral could remain ( Meridian City Council Meeting July 17,2001 Page 49 untiled and fenced with chain link if the Council grants a waiver to the tiling requirement and that the applicant obtain approval from the irrigation allowing rehabilitation of the north side of the canal within the easement to provide a visual amenity for the apartments. This is the site plan. I would also like to clarify that staff only supports the reduction of the buffer requirement on the east and west side if these garages remain exactly as they are shown in this plan and this not be turned into open parking are or carports of some type. This is proposed as a public street at this time? Private? The road coming into the development from Franklin is proposed to be a private street. That would need to be approved as part of this development so these lots would not actually have frontage on a public street but they would have private road access if that is your recommendation and decision. The applicant has indicated they do have a letter from the property owner here. This is currently zoned residential in the County. They are operating it as some kind of a group home, I'm not sure what they call it. Some kind of Rehab Center yes. Corrie: Is the Chief here tonight? De Weerd: They have a letter stating what? Stiles: A letter from the neighboring property owner that they support this current site plan and that they are not requesting additional buffering beyond the 10 feet that was recommended by the Planning and Zoning Commission. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Corrie: Shari, I have a question. Since that's a private road coming in from Franklin, is that whole thing private roads inside too? Stiles: Yes, it would all be private. There's an existing access coming from the Stonebridge Subdivision. They would continue that access, I believe is the - they would allow that access. Otherwise they would have had to create some kind of a permanent turn around here because they don't have one in this subdivision. They would connect through so people could access through the subdivision if they desire too so there would be more than one access into the development. They are proposing to have (inaudible). 228 apartments are proposed in this development. They are proposing some amenities. They meet the 10 percent open space requirement, meet or exceed. Staff would recommend approval with all staff and agency conditions as amended. Corrie: Okay, Shawn. Nickel: Thank you Mayor, members of the Council. Shawn Nickel of Land Consultants Incorporated, 52 Second Street in Eagle. I just handed out a copy of the letter from the neighbor to the west that Shari mentioned approving our site plan as we have proposed. To answer, I guess to answer Shari's question, yes, ! Meridian City Council Meeting July 17, 2001 Page 50 the road off of Franklin will be a private road. That was at the recommendation of the Highway District They didn't want such a small public stubbed road into the subdivision. They prefer it to be private. The parking areas within the commercial and also the apartments will also be private driveways. The turn around that's coming out of Medimont Subdivision, we are going to have an improved turn around that will be on public right-of-way but everything else will be private within the development. Just for clarification it is a 228 unit apartment complex, 19 buildings in all on the apartments and there's also a clubhouse proposed. Also we're asking for the approval of the C-G zoning. I like coming up here when I don't have anything to really argue about with staffs recommendation. The only thing I would like to discuss with you this evening is the Hunter Lateral. Everything else Shari has worked out with us and we also worked it out with your Planning and Zoning Commission. The Hunter Lateral, what we understood coming out of the Planning and Zoning Commission is that they would recommend a waiver to the City Council provided that we did get approval from the Irrigation District to go in and rehabilitate the northern portion of that canal. Clean it up and make it more of a visual amenity. We would be in favor of having access to it if a pathway was proposed. At this time we want to have a solid chain link fence on the easement line to that canal for safety reasons although we would be willing to work with the City and the Parks Department if in the future they did want a pathway along that. At this time we would like to keep it open, fence it with the chain link fence, go in and rehabilitate it with the permission of the Irrigation District and keep it that way. I'll stand for any other questions. Everything else looks great on the recommendations. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: Is there a reason why you put a multi-family next to a cemetery? It just looks like a great green playground for kids in a multi-family apartments to go and play in. I just kind of wonder why this particular use is considered? Nickel: Your Comp Plan does designate this is a multiple use designation. As far as keeping people out of the cemetery, we are proposing fencing completely around our development. If the - De Weerd: I know and I was a kid once and I loved to climb fences too. Nickel: I guess after that when we're kids we'll get into anywhere with regards to how large fences are. It's a compatible use with a cemetery and a higher density dwelling. You're not going to have any opposition from anyone in the cemetery. There is someone here from the Cemetery Board. I don't believe they're in opposition to the uses. It's going to be a nice quality development. ( Meridian City Council Meeting July 17, 2001 Page 51 De Weerd: I guess I have a question for Ron. Where was the light supposed to go for the Fire Station? Is this on property that's -- Anderson: That's one of my concerns is the amount of traffic that this is going to generate. Obviously in the report here from ACHD they talked about that it's in their 5-year work plan and they have Franklin Road scheduled to be widened to 5 lanes in 2003. At a meeting the other day when we met with them, they talked about that possibly could be bumped back a year at this point until maybe 2004. One of the things that we've been talking to them about is where Stratford comes into Franklin up there is signalization there and with our Fire Station sitting just a little it to the west of that, is having a stoplight that will actually stop the traffic that's west bound back in front of the Fire Station prior to the entrance. It's not likely in my mind that ACHD is going to want to put in another stoplight at Baltic that close to the one at Stratford. I see approving an apartment complex here and with the 1,700 trips a day I think that it indicated in your traffic study that that would cause that that's all going to be done just by stop signs. They did recommend putting in a right and left hand turn lane in the center. There wouldn't be any possibility for a stop light there in the future. That's going to be a lot of traffic going in and out of the area. I did have some concerns about that. Nickel: Councilman Anderson, is that going to be a full stoplight or just when there's an emergency? Anderson: It'll be a full stop light that will be tied into that intersection at Stratford but it will also operate on the emergencies when the trucks are leaving. Bird: Shari, show where the eastbound, right where the arrow is, is going to be the light as we understand it. If they get some ground from the cemetery and the other one's coming back here. Anderson: Just about on the property line of the Fire Station. Bird: The other one's coming back there by the Fire Station and that would control the westbound. That stoplight would definitely help in and out traffic for your place. Would your developer be interested in helping put those lights up financially? Nickel: Are you talking about the one on Stratford or-- Bird: You're not going to get any other lights. The one on Stratford and the one back on Franklin Road. We've got to have one. What did they tell us Ron, 100 feet or so east of the Fire Station would be the one that stops the westbound and then the east bound? The light for it would be right there on the southeast corner of Stratford and Franklin but, if we're stopping the traffic there, it definitely would help get in and out of your area or Baltic across there too by stopping the traffic. It would definitely help going east. ( Meridian City Council Meeting July 17, 2001 Page 52 Anderson: What's the phasing of your development? Nickel: Mr. Centers could probably explain that a little bit better than I can if he wants to come up in a minute. To address Councilman Bird, do you feel that by donating or giving some money to that fund for the streetlight that that would prompt it to happen sooner? Is it something that's already funded for? Bird: I think it would help definitely move it forward faster. I think it would -~ I think it not only would benefit -- I think it would be beneficial to your development too by having a stop light even though it is a quarter mile away from your entrance - Nickel: To create a gap. Bird: I believe it would at least do some stoppage of traffic there. I've got some concerns I'm like Ron. When you turn that many more car trips on there -- if we don't get some lights in there I'm afraid we're going to have a major crash with our trucks coming out, our fire trucks coming out onto the road if we don't have a stop light. I guess it maybe it takes a couple three of them to get ACHD jumped ahead. Nickel: I don't even think it does that. De Weerd: We don't want to sacrifice - Bird: We don't want to sacrifice our citizens or our trucks or our firemen. Nickel: I agree. Bird: Anything that -~ yes, sure if we went in -- if we could help put it up, they have a real hard problem thinking they wont have to do it again. That's been surveyed and they've got the right-of-way, especially down the south side of the road. It would just be a matter of getting some easement from the Cemetery District to put that one there. They've already got the easement over on the north side. Yes, financially would definitely help us move it ahead. Nickel: Two things to point out to Mr. Mayor, or Council Member. Just to point out that we do have the second access off of is it (inaudible) right there. I don't know if by creating more traffic on, what is this street coming up from Medimont? If that would be a more appropriate location for a future stoplight. That a good number of the patrons from the apartments would use that. Also to point out that because of the commercial uses in the front, they will be paying -- I don't want to sayan increased impact fee. The Highway District really gets a good impact fee from the square footage of those commercial buildings up there. As far as asking the developer he can come up and talk to you in a moment and talk to you about Meridian City Council Meel'"oJ July 17, 2001 Page 53 the phasing and just see if that's something that he would be interested in donating to the funds. Bird: I think you can, if I remember right, the Council and the Mayor can correct me if I'm wrong but as I understand it, once those lights go in the only other lights you're going to get is the existing one down there on Nola. Anderson: That's going to move to Locust Grove when they realign that. Bird: They said they weren't moving. They've got the one existing right now. Corrie: Yes, but they're going to move Locust Grove and have it right there. Bird: They're going to have two right there bang bang? Anderson: No, they'll move that stuff at Nola. Corrie: That's what they said. That's the way I understood it. You and I could be wrong too. Anderson: That's not a permanent light because when they widen that to 5 five lanes, they're going to have to move that. Bird: That's an awful nice setup for a temporary set of lights. Anderson: Yes it is. Bird: That is boy I'll tell you. Corrie: (Inaudible) excess spending. Bird: Then we have to pay for it. Nickel: Now, of course this is today. Tomorrow everything's subject to change again from the Highway District (inaudible). Bird: You got that right. Nickel: Any other questions? Bird: I just threw that out Shawn because I believe that that light at Stratford would be beneficial to your development too. Nickel: And I don't disagree with that at all, Council Member. Meridian City Council Meel".", July 17, 2001 Page 54 Anderson: The other comment I had was, I guess I'm kind of like Tammy putting an apartment unit - I'm assuming that you're going to allow children there, just like Rose Hill Cemetery in Boise, the vandalism to the headstones and things like that. I mean it's inevitable that kids are going to go over there and play and they're going to sneak over there after dark. They don't have to climb the fence when they can go out through the front there. I can just see an increase in vandalism in the cemetery and all that associated with putting a project like this that close to it. Nickel: I would like to get the input from the Cemetery Board and see if that's a concern of theirs. We would definitely want to work something out with them and make sure that everyone is comfortable with that, these two uses being compatible. Anderson: They've been trying to track that problem in Boise for years, maybe there can be some surveillance cameras or something as part of this so they can track down who does it and go after the responsible parties. Nickel: Absolutely. Corrie: Would you like to have Mr. Centers come up? Nickel: Yes, if he could. Corrie: As part of your presentation? Nickel: Yes, please. Thank you. Centers: Lee Centers, 32 - ***End Of Side Three*** Centers: I think this is a great place for apartments. Anderson: The neighbors aren't going to complain much about the noise? Centers: I wasn't going to say that. You've got 5 10,000 workforce within just a couple miles of this place. This is a great way to reduce traffic and jumping on the interstate and going either to work or to where they live. It's affordable housing. I would point out that they're going to realign Locust Grove. It does go over the freeway. They are going to move that light there. The majority of these people that have any trouble getting out are going to go out through Kalispell. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Meridian City Council Meet...~ July 17, 2001 Page 55 Centers: This road here is going to go back out on Locust Grove. At that point they can go over the freeway or they can go down and catch the light and get out. I mean it's a great connection. Bird: That's true Lee, but at the same token, when is that going to be done? We happen to own the property and this is unplatted there. I don't know, I know they've got to put the road up through and through our property but I don't know when its going to go over to Locust Grove. Of course the overpass now, they've g to federal money in it, it's been set back a year or two. Centers: Isn't this Murdoch's? I think they've already gone through the process haven't they? Corrie: I think, correct me if I'm wrong, Keith but you're talking about the street that comes down is it going to come down at that point. We're going to have Watertower go through there to Locust Grove. Bird: (Inaudible) Watertower through or does it just goes to our property? Corrie: It'll go all the way through. Bird: He's going all the way through to Locust? Okay, is Murdoch coming down? Corrie: Yes. Bird: Is it coming? It hasn't come through yet. De Weerd: When? Bird: It hasn't been platted to come through yet has it? Watson: Yes, I have the final plat on my desk for Murdoch NO.2. Bird: Oh, okay. Watson: It connects to Medimont and it also connects to Locust Grove. Bird: Okay. I'm sorry Mr. Centers. I was wrong. Centers: The idea of the garages was to create a sight and sound barrier here and here. It's kind of unusual that you've got industrial and then the cemetery. But, we just felt like that was the best buffers that we could come up with. You've got all those businesses. I mean we're less than a mile from Jabil. You've got the Home Depots and Wincos and this place is just going to explode with business opportunities. I think it's just great to have them reduce that traffic and be close to where you're working. I Meridian City Council Meetllll:! July 17,2001 Page 56 Anderson: How about the phasing of the project? Centers: The light office would be -- as soon as we get our approvals we'll start the infrastructure of that and build that in kind of a development driven thing as we get interest in that. The apartments, when we feel like that that's, there's a few of them in the works and we don't want to over saturate the market. As soon as we feel like we've got a good shot at it then we'll go for it. This would all be, this could be all built at one time. It depends on the market. Bird: Could your commercial expand and less apartment places? If the market - Centers: What did you say? Bird: Could, if your commercial end up or the light office or whatever you want to call it. If it goes and your apartments don't go would you expand your commercial and make it a more commercial development and less apartments? Centers: It could. De Weerd: He would have to come in and change the - Bird: I know he'd have to come in and change. What, as I ask Shawn, what is your thinking on maybe participating as a - with some money if we could get those stoplights up? Centers: I would rather not and it's because of the impact fees. You can't believe trying to get a Building Permit and what it costs. Bird: I know. Centers: And we've got to participate in this and participate in that. You know it just gets to the point where this is going to have an elaborate tot lot, an elaborate clubhouse for the people. There's like, what is it 15 percent open space? We far exceed the 10 percent. Bird: It has nothing to do with your development. I'm just asking anybOdy along there if they would like to help participate with our stoplight before we get somebody killed. Centers: I have another way to help out with the Fire Department other than this one. De Weerd: What do you mean by that? Centers: I just would rather help out with another Fire Station. Meridian City Council Meeh"", July 17, 2001 Page 57 Bird: Another location? Centers: Pardon? Bird: At another location, you mean? Centers: It's a different location yes. Anderson: So, if I get your answer straight on the phasing is it all depends on the market? Centers: Yes. Anderson: That's helpful. You ought to run for Political Office. Corrie: I take that as a no? Okay Lee Anything else? Bird: I have none. Corrie: Okay. We have two other people signed up to speak the Public Hearing, Kevin Abernathy the Meridian Cemetery and then Burton Roberts. Name and address please. Abernathy: My name is Kevin Abernathy, 2310 West Saddlewood. I am the Chairman of the Meridian Cemetery Maintenance District. I'm here tonight to speak to you of course about the Baltic Place Development. We'll say that when we first saw the site plans for this development, I was really concerned. When I saw that we were going to have residential dwellings in the area especially so many people, individuals in that area. After looking a little closer at the site plan and understanding how they had it laid out I do believe the developer did make a great deal of effort to try to minimize the impact upon the cemetery with the placement of the garages and the location of the actual dwellings themselves. They are located quite some distance from the actual property line. I think the Commissioners had some very valid comments regarding the increase vandalism in the cemetery. We've been very fortunate over the years. We've never had an incident of vandalism at the cemetery with headstones turned over. I guess our feeling is we probably would be less concerned with vandalism and more concerned with injury to a small child that may get into the cemetery. We have headstones in the cemetery that are very old and very much in a state of disrepair. It would only take a child backing up against those and the whole thing would topple over on them. We also have of course the concern with the ditch in the area there. The ditch itself has always been an amenity for the cemetery. Many of our patrons who come to the cemetery really like the fact that we have that running water. If you go and look at that, you'll see that the ditch in the cemetery itself has actually been improved with rock lining and its not quite as ( Meridian City Council Meeb,.oI Jury 17, 2001 Page 58 wild as it is back on that southern portion of the property. With regards to what you would expect from the developer on that southern portion along the ditch. As we understand it the Irrigation District has a setback on each side of that ditch of 15 feet. I dontt know exactly what the Council's recommendation was going to be or what the Planning and Zoning's recommendation was for the maintenance of that property. If I understand it correctly it would involve the people in the development there to actually come onto our property and maintain some sort of grass and landscaping in that area I assume. I think just in discussion with Pastor Bert Robertst my fenow Commissioner who is also here this evening we felt that we could actually go almost anyway that the district, excuse the Commission wanted to recommend on that. I will point out however that if you do force the developer to tile the lateral there, you'll still have the portion going through the cemetery which is quite a long distance that will not be tiled. So, I don't know how much you actually mitigate the danger to kids. Which brings me to the other portion of the development where our concern lies is on the western side of their property there which abuts ours. We read the transcript of the P&Z hearings and it was a little unclear to us what the final recommendations were that came out of that hearing. Tonight we had a conversation with the developer just prior to the testimony. They had some interesting proposals. I will say that we have not actually talked. This is the first time we've had discussions with the developer on this so we have not reached any consensus on what we would like to see along that property line. Initially, our thoughts were that we would like to see a minimum 5-foot setback along with at least a 6-foot chain link fence along there with the vinyl slats to provide some privacy for their development as well as for our cemetery patrons. One of the concerns that we have with having that many people located in that area, this is going to be an area that people are going to be living. They're going to be having volleyball matches. They're going to be out washing their cars. Radios are going to be going. You're going to be hearing the cars coming and going. That is a little bit of an impact. Certainly it is an impact on our cemetery so we would like to see some sort of sound barrier put in place. We, I guess weren't fully convinced that the garages would provide enough of a sound barrier. We are pleased that there is the great deal of setback between the dwellings and the garages. That certainly helps. We would also request that the developer consider putting in trees along that west property line there to help. As the trees mature, not only block the view but also mitigate the noise that comes over from that area. I would point out that I don't think that request is unreasonable. We had a similar development on the south side, the Howell Development where we worked out the same sort of arrangements. They set aside funds for trees and we provide the irrigation for the trees and we actually do the maintenance of those along that property. I think that's all that I have at this time. Corrie: Thank you Kevin, we appreciate it. Mr. Roberts? Roberts: I think (inaudible). i Meridian City Council Mesh, '01 July 17, 2001 Page 59 Corrie: Has he? All right; thank you. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: I guess I'm a little concerned that this developer hasn't talked to the neighbors to the west yet. So, I would be in favor of continuing this so that they can have those discussions to address some of the issues with the setback and fencing and landscaping. I guess I also have concern of the number of traffic. With the lack of the light on Stratford and having no knowledge of the phasing plan of that, traffic is a concern with that number coming out. I see that the light would have helped mitigate some of that but maybe we could put a condition on that the apartment development cant happen until the road improvements come in or until the light goes or something, I guess that is a concern of mine too. My biggest concern is they should be talking to the neighbors and work out these issue and it shouldn't happen tonight. Bird: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Okay. Mr. Bird. Bird: I've got a question for Shari. Today, we got the (inaudible) from Shawn the reply on the recommendations of the annexation and zoning that we had given. I've got a question Shari. Have you had a chance to read it? Stiles: Yes. Bird: Item No, 3 for clarification, applicant would like this paragraph to further state that all remaining principle permitted uses listed under the C~G zoning designation and Zoning Ordinances be allowed without Conditional Use approval. Do you agree with that? What is the deal on that? Stiles: I would agree if we add indoor and outdoor entertainment facilities and planned commercial developments to the list of required Conditional Uses. Corrie: Comments, questions? (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Corrie: I guess, applicant, do you have anything that, rebuttal or anything you want to answer this questions? (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Meridian city Council Meeth'lj July 17,2001 Page 60 Nickel: Mr. Mayor and Council. Shawn Nickel again, real quick, yes this is the first we've talked to the cemetery group. They were notified of the previous meetings. We did not have a neighborhood meeting. We talked to them just before. I think we can, as a matter fact we will work out any issues they may have. Their concerns were regarding fencing and landscaping along that western boundary. I was just talking with Mr. Centers and we would agree to either provide them with trees of their choice that they could plant, or that we would help them plant along their boundary or we could go in and we could do that as part of our Landscaping Plan and provide trees. It's just something that we would like to work out with them because they're the ones that are going to be benefiting from the trees more so than our development. It's more appropriate for them to kind of help us do a Landscape Plan along that side but we would agree to the 5~foot setback and the chainlink fence with the slats and then some additional trees for some additional buffers and sound barriers. As far as the Hunter Lateral, as he stated, the Hunter lateral along their property is not currently tiled nor is it going to be tiled where the new police station is I believe. The 15.foot easement is actually on our property and that's the portion that we're proposing that we would rehabilitate and maintain with the approval of the Irrigation District. So, we wouldn't actually be going on the church's property to maintain that Irrigation Easement. It would be the Irrigation Easement that would be on Mr. Centers' property which is about 15 feet. As far as the uses, yes, we agree with Shari. That's fine if she wants to add those to the list of uses. All we're stating is that if there are uses that are principally permitted within the C-G zone, we would like to keep those as principle permitted uses. Then we've agreed to that list to bump those up to Conditional Use Permit for future review by the Paz and the Council. If you do decide to postpone this, we would like to move forward. We believe that we can work everything out with the Cemetery Board but if you decide to postpone us or table us for additional meetings could you please state any additional concerns you may have so we may address those for you at the next meeting? Tammy did state some of her concerns which I appreciate but if anyone else has any concerns that we can address that would be really appreciated also. Do you have any questions for me? Anderson: It isn't a question. It is just a statement. I disagreed with your statement that you made about the landscaping and the trees would benefit the cemetery more than you and that they should participate. I mean, they are an existing business that's there. The trees would be a buffering for the noise and stuff that would be coming from your development so I guess I disagree that those trees would be there to benefit them. They would be there so that your project would be compatible with the existing - Nickels: I agree with that. When I said participate, I wasn't meaning that they would be responsible for any of the cost of those. All I meant was that we're going to have garages along our side. We're impacting them. I would rather beautify their site than .- we're not going to have any benefit from the trees. I still Meridian City Council Meeting July 17, 2001 Page 61 think that they would have more benefit. It wasn't a really negative comment. It was just that we would like to work with them as much as possible. Corrie: I had a question, Shari. The garages along there1 the back of the garage to their property line is how many feet? Stiles: Five. Corrie: You1re not going to have trees back there to fit at S-foot. Stiles: Not on their property. Corrie: Not on their property. Now, if the cemetery wants to put the trees along their property they can work that out but you don't have enough room. Anderson: That was a question that I had with the other development that went to the south of you guys. Were those trees put in on your property too? Bird: Yes. Corrie: That was put on your property? Do you want these trees on your property? Then you'll be watering and cutting and taking care of the trees? Okay. I didn't think there was going to be enough room on that side,S feet from the garages (inaudible). Nickels: Yes, Mayor. We would rather have that than the fence and kind of have a 5-foot no mans land that we would have to maintain. We propose to them to actually, either way we could bump up our fence to be flush with the garages and then provide the landscaping. They could maintain it with an agreement Of however they would want to see that. Corrie: How afe you going to maintain that 5 feet between the garage and the fence? What was the plan on that? Nickels: Originally what I was thinking about doing is actually having the fence 5 -foot off the property line as well. Have it flush with the garages. Actually have the fence all the way along this. It would actually abut the garages, go through here and then have a Landscape Agreement with the cemetery. We would provide landscaping and they could maintain it. We would either do grass and then some trees so that when they're mowing their lawns they could just mow right up to the fences. That was kind of my vision on that. Bird: You actually use the garages as part of the fence. You'd just go between the- Nickels: Exactly. ( Meridian City Council Meeth,~ July 17, 2001 Page 62 Bird: That's a good idea. De Weerd: Now, are you stubbing out to the west? Oh, you have it different- Nickels: Is that upside down? I'm sorry. De Weerd: I thought what are you stubbing to the cemetery for? Nickels: There wont be any future development out there. De Weerd: We've been here all day. Nickels: I know. I'm sorry. Corrie: Okay. Thank you. Nickels: Thank you. Corrie: Motions? (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Corrie: I guess we can either close the Public Hearing, we can continue the Public Hearing for more information. If you think you have enough information you can close it. Anderson: My. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Anderson. Anderson: I guess I still have a concern kind of like Tammy was talking about that until we know for sure when Franklin's going to be widened and we have concrete time frame from ACHD, I'm reluctant to dump more traffic onto that two lane road at this point. Since Mr. Centers couldn't give me any phasing time frames I guess I'm kind of like her. I mean 11m thinking that maybe we approve this in phases, that the front part being the business part of that or the commercial part that we approve that and until such time as the road is widened to five lanes that they not be permitted to take out Building Permits on the apartment units. Corrie: Other comments on that? De Weerd: No. Corrie: No other comments? Then I guess go back to the original - I MeridIan City Council Meetih!;j July 17, 2001 Page 63 Anderson: (Inaudible) has a comment now. Corrie: Okay. Come up, it'll be fine. We're still on the Public Hearing. Nickels: Mr. Mayor and Council, just to point that the Highway District has approved the traffic counts as Franklin Road exists today before they even expand the lanes or add new lanes. If you are leaning towards that you might want to table us, let us come back with a better phasing plan as opposed to just flat out giving us a phasing plan. We would rather look at it, talk to the Highway District again, find out their time frame and then maybe coming back to you with a phasing plan that might be more appropriate for both of us. Anderson: Maybe you can clarify for me. When I read the comments of ACHO, even if they approved it they did say that it would change the level of service which to me means that obviously its going to be a worse level of service if we dump all that traffic on there. Even if it is approved, it does change the level of service there. Nickels: Right and I would hope that that change in level of service would actually at least keep it as current, 2003 or bump it up. That's something that I could find out from the Highway District. See if they included that within their bumping it back from 2003. Maybe adding this traffic, changing the level of service, maybe they will keep it on schedule for 2003 or maybe even bring it - I don't know, I can't answer that. Anderson: I guess it's been my experience that just changing the level of service doesn't speed up (inaudible). I mean, it's the funding for them that's the key thing. Nickels: Thank you. De Weerd: Well, Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: Then I would move to continue Items 11, 12, and 13 Public Hearing request for annexation and zoning of Baltic Place, request for Preliminary Plat and Conditional Use Permit until August 7,2001. Bird: Second. Corrie: Okay. Motion been made and second to continue the Public Hearing on Items 11, 12, and 13 on Baltic Place Subdivision until August 7, 2001. Any further comments, discussions? All those in favor of the motion say aye. Meridian CIty Council Meetjtl~ JUly 17, 2001 Page 64 MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT Item 14. FP 01-011 Request for Final Plat approval of 43 building lots and 5 other lots on 15.87 acres in an R-4 zone for Bear Creek Subdivision No.3 by Briggs Engineering - east of Stoddard and south of Overland: Corrie: Okay. Item 14 request for a Final Plat for Bear Creek Subdivision, They've made a request to table that until August ih of 2001 so I will entertain a motion to table it. Bird: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: I move that we table the request for Final Plat approval on 43 building lots and 5 other lots on 15.87 acres in R-4 zone for Bear Creek Subdivision No.3 by Briggs Engineering to August 7,2001. De Weerd: Second. Corrie: Okay. Motion made and seconded to table Item No. 14 until August 7, 2001. Any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion say aye. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT Item 15. TE 01-006 Request for a Time Extension for Final Plat approved on July 18, 2001 for Heron Brook Townhomes by Pinnacle Engineers - northeast corner of Meridian Road and Blue Heron Lane: Corrie: Okay. Item No, 15 is a request for Time Extension of Final Plat approved on July the 18th for Heron Brook Townhomes by Pinnacle Engineering, northeast corner of Meridian Road and Blue Heron Lane. Staff comments for the extension? The applicant isn't here, What is the staffs comment on this one? Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council. They are nearly ready to record the plat but they would not get it recorded by the deadline. That's why they've requested the extension. They are ready to submit for Building Permits and have made a lot of progress from where they originally started. Gary had looked at the plat, had to send it back for some changes and believes he may be able to sign it tomorrow. It'll probably be 6 weeks or so before it can be recorded. Corrie: Okay. I. Meridian City Council MeetitlY July 17. 2001 Page 65 De Weerd: So, I assume this was approved in 2000, not 2001 which is tomorrow. Bird: Yes. We have the date stated here we haven't even gotten there yet. Well, we will be in about two hours and (inaudible). Stiles: Yes, it would have been 2000. De Weerd: Okay I so a six month extension, or two months? Stiles: Six months should be fine. De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: I move that we approve the request for Time Extension for Final Plat for Heron Brook T ownhomes to let see - Stiles: January? De Weerd: -- January 18, 2002. Bird; Second. Corrie: Okay. Motion made and seconded to approve the extension of Final Plat on Item No. 15 request for Time Extension 006 to 1-18-2002. Any further discussion? All those in favor of the motion say aye. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT Item 16. Water, Sewer and Trash Delinquencies: Corrie: Okay. Delinquencies, sewer water and trash delinquencies. Anybody here on this list before I read it? Bird: Well, lets take a look here. Corrie: Okay. This is to inform you in writing. If you chose to have the right to a predetermined hearing 7:30 Tuesday July 17, 2001 before the Mayor and City Council to appear in person and be judged by the facts and defend the claim made by the city that your water sewer and trash bill is delinquent. You may retain counsel. Your service will be discontinued on July 18, 2001 unless payment is received in full. Is anyone present who wishes to contest his or her water sewer and trash delinquency? Hearing none, you are hereby informed that you may appeal or have the decision of the City reviewed by the fourth judicial ( Meridian City Council Meetihy July 17, 2001 Page 66 district court pursuant to Idaho State Code. Even though you do appeal, your water will be shut off. The amount of the turn off list is 37,104.14 dollars. Bird: Mr, Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: I would move that we approve this delin~uency turn off and also have the turn off services date from July 18th to July 25 h which gives us a week which I think they have requested. That's all, for the sum of 37,104.14 dollars. Corrie: Do I hear a motion on the - excuse me. Do I hear a second on the motion? Anderson: Second. Corrie: Okay. Motion been made and second to approve the turn off list and to be continued July 25,2001 in the amount of 37,104,14 dollars. All those in favor of the motion say aye. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT De Weerd: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Being the last thing on the agenda. De Weerd: It's related to this. I don't know if anyone's more comprehensive about this report thing but I think it might be advantageous if Leslie comes and explains why there are delinquencies in all columns and they're still getting water service. I kind of asked John Shawcroft or Rick Clinton about it earlier. He suggested that it might be helpful to have Leslie at a workshop and explain the process here. Everyone else, or do you guys understand this and know why we have such high figures in some places. Anderson: I was just curious like even looking at this one. We've got somebody that's into us 2,300 dollars. It seems like at some point we ought to be cutting off that service before they get too far into us. De Weerd: I think he kind of explained to me it's more than it looks. I would just think it would be helpful. Bird: We've got a business for 809.20 dollars balance. Anderson: Here's one for almost 4,600 dollars. Bird: I think Gary can answer most of these questions. Cant you Gary? Meridian City Council Meetirlg July 17, 2001 Page 67 Corrie: He tried to last time and he couldn't do it. De Weerd: It might be better time at a workshop. Bird: Yes. Corrie: Jabil-- okay. Workshop, do you want to have it? Bird: I would like to have it there. Our billing if you talk to people that read the bills and stuff they're a joke. I personally don't ever see mine. My wife takes care of it. Corrie: I can make arrangements to have them send one to your office if you'd like. Bird: I get one out there in the office from Boise City and I can read that real well. Corrie: With that, Mr. Berg if you will put that on the next agenda with the approval of the president we'll do that. Bird: You bet. Corrie: Okay. I'll enterta:in a motion that we adjourn then at 9:55. Bird: So moved. Anderson: Second. Corrie: Motion made and second. All in favor say aye. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT MEETING ADJOURNED AT 9:55 P.M. (TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS) February 22, 2002 MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING APPLICANT February 26, 2002 ITEM NO. 3-A REQUEST Approve Minutes of July 18, 2001 Special Budget Workshop AGENCY COMMENTS CITY CLERK: CITY ENGINEER: CITY PLANNING DIRECTOR: CITY AITORNEY CITY POLICE DEPT: CITY FIRE DEPT: CITY BUILDING DEPT: CITY WATER DEPT: CITY SEWER DEPT: MERIDIAN SCHOOL DISTRICT: MERIDIAN POST OFFICE: ADA COUNTY HIGHWAY DISTRICT: SANJT ARY SERVICE COMPANY CENTRAL DISTRICT HEALTH: NAMPA MERIDIAN IRRIGATION: SETTLERS IRRIGATION: IDAHO POWER: US WEST: INTERMOUNTAIN GAS: BUREAU OF RECLAMATION: OTHER: R~ V tJj pr./ CL h <JlY · il N fOl Contacted: Date: Phone: Materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of MeridIan. Meridian City Council Soecial Budaet Workshoo Julv 18. 2001 The special budget workshop of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 9:30 A.M. on Wednesday July 18, 2001, by Mayor Robert Corrie. Members Present: Mayor Robert Corrie, Keith Bird, Tammy de Weerd, and Ron Anderson. Members Absent: Cherie McCandless. Others Present: Stacy Kilchenmann, Janice Smith, Reta Cunningham, and Will Berg. Corrie: I'll open the special session of the Council for the hearing department reports for budget requests. Let the record show that all Council people are present except Cherie McCandless who is still absent. First, we'll start out on the administration, Mayor, Human Resources, City Clerk, and Accounting. We will hear from Stacy Kilchenmann from the major's office. Kilchenmann: Mayor and Council I'm going to start and I'm going to do part of it. Pauline will do the Human Resource part and she'll talk to you about cost of living increase, the Mayor increases, and insurance. Then Will has one enhancement and he will talk to you about that. If you could turn to your tab that says, admin then look at the page right after the graph, the department summary. At your seats, I put a few handouts. The first one is a survey of Mayor's salaries. The Mayors as full time have been put in the base so there are two things that I want to talk to you about in the base. The first one is the Mayor's salary. I put him it as 65,000 and if you look at the survey -- Janice took some like size cities, called them this morning, and got their salaries. That's just for documentation and for you to look at. Then I also gave you, under dues; I just wanted you to see what we've included in dues. I have a second sheet in there that just says description of dues. It's got the various dues that basically the City pays for. I think most of those are included in other government. I just wanted you to see that. Okay, the first enhancement that I'm going to talk about is actually yours. It's for laptops for Council and what we call LaserFiche Plus. On your desktop, you'll see I gave you a brief description of LaserFiche Plus then some specifications for laptops. The idea for this -- Anita actually brought this to me from the Mayor's office. She said we already have part of the technology available to do this. I think you got exposed to it yesterday when the police did their presentation. It would be a similar idea. Information could be transported from the City Clerk's office to CDs to your laptops and be easily accessible for you. You could sort. You could search. It would eliminate a lot of the piles of paper that you transport around. Also, I think make it easier for you to access particular items that you wanted to look at without having to shuffle through a lot of paperwork. It's kind of a direction the whole city is moving toward and it would help get you moving in that direction. So, that's what that one is. The second Meridian City Council Special BUuget Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 2 of 133 one is the Locust Grove overpass. We have it in here as an enhancement but it's really, it's something you are obligated to do. I would suggest that it be a reserve of the fund balance so we just start showing that we need to reserve 1.8 million dollars in our fund balance. The senior citizen's support I put in at the request of Tammy so I'm going to let her talk about that one, for the 10,000.00 dollars. Yes. De Weerd: I guess the senior center has been speaking with the city for the last several years about forming a partnership. Last year Council took a first step towards that with helping with funding for the van. They've been struggling the last several years meeting expenses. Their volunteer base seems to be dwindling a little bit so that they need to reexamine that. They've agreed to do an audit so that this partnership can be formed and would like to request 10,000.00 dollars for the partnership effort. I do have their financials and all of that information so that I can share that with you. Most of their conversations have been with the Mayor. I think, a couple years ago didn't they come and do a presentation? Bird: Yes they did. De Weerd: They've been trying to pursue this for some time. Corrie: My only suggestion is to -- I think it's fine, the partnership for 10,000. To make it final I would like to see that new audit that they're doing because basically there's 500,000,00 dollars some place not showing up. That's why they're having the big problems over there. I think the Deputy Director of the senior citizen center called for an audit along with the -- (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Corrie: The one that has the funeral home. De Weerd: Bill Brewer. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) De Weerd: Excuse me. Don't believe everything you read. I'm a citizen advisor on their board and have participated in these discussions. Corrie: Okay. I'm just saying we want to be cautious because there's something over there that they're not making sense with. As far as the 10,000.00 dollars, I have no problem with it. I just want to make sure that we're not getting ourselves into a hot water situation over there. De Weerd: Mayor, I appreciate that. That is why we strongly suggested that they have the audit before any formal partnership be entered into. Meridian City Council Special BUul;let Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 3 of 133 Corrie: Good point. Kilchenmann: Mayor, Councilman de Weerd. I put it in capitol but you would probably want it to be in operating as something you would do each year so I need to change that. The other thing that I wanted to bring up -- I'm kind of just sticking it in the administration part. We didn't do our goals so we didn't set a very good example for everybody else. Our goal was just to get this budget done by now. What I would like to see for next year, well, maybe three goals. One is a technology plan for the city because I think we sort of need an overall direction and try to unify things instead of having each department buying a different type of computer. You know have kind of a direction maybe a three year, four-year technology plan. A study plan for replacement of computers, software that's compatible with each other. That kind of thing. The police asked to do an intranet, which is an Internet internally. I think if we approach something like that, we should do it citywide and not just have individual departments do it. The second thing would be strategic planning, which I think we should probably start right away. Springing off of that would be a five-year capitol improvement plan so that we have our capitol budgeting done in advance. We would just know every year what projects we were going to do and try to start allocating funds for that. Each year as new capitol needs came up, we would have our maintenance, which we would have to do every year, or repairs. Then we could just refine that long-term capitol budget plan every year. Those are three things that I think we should start working for. Bird: I think Stacy -- I think one thing in your technology plan of getting everything purchased. I don't think we should stop there. I think we should purchase automobiles, all equipment through a - Kilchenmann: A fleet - Bird: -- a fleet deal or anything that's major. Each Department Head is running around to all these different places and you know we're not I don't believe getting the best buy by doing that. Kilchenmann: Yes, the state contract is available. All the work has been done and they have a lot more purchasing power than we do individually. So, it wouldn't be too difficult to springboard off of that. Bird: I think for automobiles the police probably do use that. However, that's a stepping-stone. You can go to a local merchant and say, you know can you match this? Kilchenmann: Yes. We could choose- Bird: And do that but I think we need to bring all that purchasing of vehicles or anything major into one roof, not each department out making it's wheeling and Meridian City Council Special BUul;letWorkshop July 18, 2001 Page 4 of 133 dealing. I think that could be right along with the computers and stuff. That's my personal opinion. Kilchenmann: Okay, so I'm going to have Will speak next and then Pauline. Will we moved his money. He has a vacant position clerk specialist, I think. We moved the money down into professional services to pay for the stenographer that we're going to hopefully, as soon as Bill gets the contract done bring on board to do the P&Z meetings. Will still feels that he needs that position, that he has enough work to justify it. So, he's going to talk about it. De Weerd: Stacy just one more comment. We kind of talked about the fleet- Kilchenmann: Maintenance? De Weerd: -- maintenance yesterday. I know that purchasing power kind of goes with all the departments too for supplies. I know Reta and I have talked about this in the past. I would hope that that's something else that can be pursued. I do know one other thing that we have kind of tossed around and that's tracking contracts and change orders. That's extremely important. I think it's going to be an important aspect in the coming budget years in knowing where we're at and why we're not where we want to be and those kind of things and will help discussions like yesterday on seeing projects showing up that are unrealistic in light of everything else that's going on. I would like to see something like that. Kilchenmann: Mayor, Councilman de Weerd, Councilwoman. I hope, not -- I won't make it next week but in the next month to start doing, reporting on the process we are with our capitol projects. That's kind of a best practices financial reporting standard that every month we report on how much we spent, where we are in the project and have engineering notes. We will start doing that right away. De Weerd: Thank you. One other thing I also heard yesterday and it's about zero base budgeting, or maintaining like we are but perhaps looking at budget incentives to encourage -- Kilchenmann: (Inaudible). De Weerd: That's probably something we should be looking at in the fall -- Kilchenmann: I think we could pursue that with our Strategic Planning. De Weerd: Yes. Kilchenmann: On the fleet maintenance, I was going to tell you too I actually have had a call from a Meridian vendor who would be interested in bidding on ( Meridian City Council Special Buu\Jet Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 5 of 133 that. I think that it probably would be something we should offer an opportunity for the vendors in Meridian to bid on doing that. De Weerd: That's great. Thank you. Berg: Good morning. I guess Stacy pretty much explained. I was kind of confused about the flip-flopping of these things. It's been researched to contract out a stenographer for the land use Public Hearing meetings which consist of two P&Z meetings a month, two City Council meetings a month and to pursue a contract with them. In all honesty, the workflow does not decrease in my department. We still have a meeting every Tuesday that we still have to do minutes for. We're increasing some of the minutes that we're having with other agencies. We still need to do that type of function. I don't feel decreasing a person out of my department is going to keep the workload to the level that we need to have. Also, just the day to day applications that come in, the increasing applications that we process through our department, sending out mailings, transmittals to agencies and the inquiries that we get. We're issuing more licenses. Those kinds of things are increasing. The other thing is the coverage that we need to have when people are gone during lunch hours as well as vacations. I don't feel I can afford and this is just the workload; afford to lose a full time person in my department. That's, I guess why it's an enhancement to bring that person back on. So, do you have any questions? Corrie: Will, right now, you have one full time employee, right? Berg: Yes. Corrie: I mean you and -- is that Department Specialist, what is her title? Berg: She is a Department Specialist. Corrie: Okay and you need what two Department Specialists, a Deputy Clerk, and a full receptionist right? Berg: Correct. Corrie: So, you're down right now. You need a Department Specialist. We need to get a Deputy Clerk and we need to have a full receptionist in? Berg: According to my current staff this year, yes. Corrie: Okay so, what you're asking for is the other Department Specialist? mean, don't you have-- Berg: Excuse me. According to what Stacy had put together, she pulled out one Department Specialist and put in a contract for a stenographer. Meridian City Council Special BUuget Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 6 of 133 Corrie: Okay. Berg: So, all I'm asking is I want to keep my Department Specialist as well as contract out the -- Bird: Well, what about your receptionist? We're hiring that on a contract labor? Berg: Right now, there are temps but we are interviewing for a full time receptionist. Bird: Okay. So, you need Deputy Clerk and one Department Specialist? This stenographer that we're going to hire is going to be under contract so that is not an employee? Berg: Correct. Bird: They will be only working four nights a week? Berg: What I want is to keep my current staff, which are Clerk, Deputy Clerk, two Department Specialists and a receptionist. Anderson: You have five employees? Berg: If I have full staff yes, in my department. De Weerd: Have you ever had five employees? Berg: It seems to rotate fast. De Weerd: How many -- you're saying the stenographer would be at each Public Hearing then? Corrie: Only for four. Berg: The way my understanding with the conversations with Stacy that the stenographer would be at the Public Hearing meetings for land use issues. Which would be the first and third Tuesday of the month for City Council and the first and third Thursday of the month for P&Z, four meetings. De Weerd: Then we have the non-land use. the workshop, and then any special meetings? Berg: Yes. Those are the regular-- De Weerd: Which the Deputy Clerk has always handled in the past? Meridian City Council Special BUuget Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 7 of 133 Berg: She hasn't handled that in the -- for about a year she hasn't handled that. It's been the Deputy Clerk, excuse me the Department Specialists. De Weerd: So, you were trying to transition that out of the Deputy Clerk's responsibility? Berg: Yes so the transcriptions would be passed between the two Department Specialists. Bird: Now, this stenographer that we're going to contract out, they will give us a completed set of minutes? Berg: Finalized yes, for your approval. Bird: It's going to be a completed set of minutes. De Weerd: What kind of turn around? Bird: What kind of turn around time? Berg: Well, Stacy may correct me if I'm wrong. Originally, what we talked about was trying to get a draft to the attorney in one to two days. In other words before Friday of that same week. If it's a Tuesday meeting before Friday the attorney would have a draft so they could do some findings. It would give them a full week to do findings. De Weerd: So, we could have looked at my motion last night. Bird: Where is-- Berg: If the temporary gal was not gone, she would probably have those minutes finished. She's been working really hard to try to get caught up. If you can tell, we're just kind of one meeting behind. De Weerd: Yes, it's been nice. Bird: Where in the budget is this contract set aside for this? Berg: I think it's under consulting. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Berg: Professional services. De Weerd: It's in the base. r Meridian City Council Special BUugel Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 8 of 133 Bird: Just a minute. I want to see it in administration. De Weerd: Oh, it's under operating. Bird: That's what I'm wondering. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Berg: It's under my 1140 under contract labor. Bird: Okay. De Weerd: With the laptops and Laser Fiche for Council that will eliminate a lot of, I think. It's anticipated to reduce the amount of copy time and paper handling except maybe for Keith. Bird: Yes. De Weerd: Will that help reduce the staff time? It's not going to have so much of an impact? Berg: Council Member de Weerd, I would hope that it would help the staff time but I couldn't tell you that right now. We might have to have a more technical oriented person rather than put it in the copy machine and copy. I would hope so. What I see that we're battling is increasing workload anyway. Maybe it's going to counterbalance that you're not spending time on doing that but you're increasing your productivity by doing more applications and also doing the packets electronically. De Weerd: Yes. Berg: Yes, I would hope it would reduce the labor intensely but I don't know if that's going to be a break even as fast as we're working and more work coming in, that it's a trade off that you don't increase any more. De Weerd: Okay well, I have one last question. That will be have you worked with Pauline. You know I guess it sounds like your Deputy City Clerk's position is kind of changed, evolved into something different than it's been in the past when we first converted it over. Do you have specific job descriptions for each of your job positions? Berg: Yes we do. In fact, we modified the Deputy Clerk's position before it went out for the job. De Weerd: Okay. ( Meridian City Council Special B'uu\Jet Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 9 of 133 Corrie: What was that modification? Skeggs: On the job description? Basically that they would be responsible for doing some of the meetings. Bird: That was in the original. Corrie: I was thinking that was in the original. Skeggs: But the job description, the Deputy Clerk that was in the position wasn't doing all the responsibilities that were listed on the job description now. I feel if they did take over those responsibilities that are listed that would actually help Will out a lot more in what he's doing. I kind of looked at the other positions in his department too and I think they would be better utilized. The receptionist basically answers the phone and she sits there a lot of the time doing nothing. I think that we need to utilize her to the fullest extent. I know he's looking at having her do some data entry when we hire the individual. I think that there could be more duties and responsibilities put on that position as well. That's just my own personal. I understand why the Department Specialist is supposed to be doing some of the meetings minutes and the other one was doing land use and P&Z. So, if the stenographer comes in and does the P&Z and the land use, that puts all that position was really doing and making packets for it where the other position was suppose to be doing minutes as well. I'm not real sure how an addition and a (Inaudible). Corrie: That was one of my concerns. You've got two Department Specialists. I know you need one because it's very important that they make sure that it's all done. If you got a Deputy City Clerk to take half the duties that the City Clerk is doing and then you have the Department Specialist doing what they're supposed to be doing and you've got the stenographer that's the second Department Specialist. You've got a receptionist and a phone receptionist saying all they're doing is answering the phone. It seems like we're paying somebody just to sit there and answer the phone when they could be doing other things in that office. Do we need the other Department Specialist? I mean, right now, you have one person and then two temps right now doing it. I guess my question is that fourth person outside the clerk's office, if you have the stenographer, that's going to take a lot of workload off the Department Specialist if all the other secretary whatever the case may be. De Weerd: I do understand Will's point with if we do go to the laptops you're going to have to have someone who is more technically inclined. With the other position doing a lot of the non-land use workshops and those kinds of things and front counter, it might be warranted. Meridian City Council Special BUuget Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 10 of 133 Bird: I think that phone receptionist can be doing some other stuff but her primary job is to answer the phone and get it done which is being done very well as far as what I have called in here. I think on our Deputy Clerk, the two that we have hired have been, when they've applied for the job it's always -- the description is always as Pauline said in there. Then after they get the job all of a sudden they can't do all of the duties that they've been asked and when they applied for the job was sitting there. I think that when we hire a new -- we need to make sure that they can do this. There's some people in this city that I think live down at this building and Will happens to be one of them and Gary Smith and a few others. I think we need to let them have some nights out once in a while, at least home with their family. On the extra specialist, I don't think this laptop stuff -- I think it is going to take more technical. I don't think it's going to be as really time saving as a lot of people think it is because you've got to run all this stuff off and get it in and you have to get it set up and stuff like that. I don't know. I personally believe legally, that that is probably one of our most important departments, the City Clerk. All legal papers by state statute have to go through there, be kept through there, which I don't know is being done now. All contracts should be on deal in there. I don't know whether he needs another Department Specialist. I think this stenographer is going to help us and I think the laptops will help us. In the same token I think you've got to get the laptops right. Technology is only as good as the people putting it in. everybody gets a computer and thinks that's an automatic solve all problems. Well it is not. I can show some cut lists off of a computer put in wrong. That's it Mayor. Anderson: You've had two already. De Weerd: Well, he keeps interrupting me. Anderson: Oh, okay. De Weerd: I can't continue my thought. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Anderson: I would just like to weigh in on this issue before you two take all of the floor. I guess my thought is a couple of things. We got a letter a few months back from one of the gals that used to do the minutes. She sent all the Council people a letter and I'm sure Will probably saw it too. One of the things that she talked about in that letter was that the City of Meridian is tying up an enormous amount of staff time having minutes that are word for word minutes based off these tapes. My personal feeling on that is that minutes could be summarized and then if you needed to have the actually word for word verbatim what was said somebody could pull the tape. I. know that not everybody on the Council agrees with me on that particular issue. In the letter, the gal indicated that that takes at least one full time person to do that. I feel like the hiring of this stenographer is going to free up that one person. I also agree that I think there \ Meridian City Council Special BuugetWorkshop July 18, 2001 Page 11 of 133 are a lot of inefficiencies that are occurring in your office and that you need to look at the processes and how things are handled from all the paperwork and all the individual copies. I mean, when we get our Council packets, a lot of times there's things that have already been copied and put in there and we find two and three copies of things in there. Some of the things like Pauline talked about, if the gal is just sitting there answering phones. I really think that hiring the stenographer that you ought to be able to look at your office and go through the processes and you could probably cut one staff person out of there. I really would encourage you to do that and try to be more efficient. When I compare what you have in your staff, you have four and Nampa has two that work in the City clerk's office. Granted they don't have to answer phones like you do but that's a receptionist position. I see you have more staff than Nampa does and I don't know about the other cities. I think there's probably some wasted motion going on there somewhere that if you really analyzed your department you could find some efficiencies and could still do the job with a four person staff and the stenographer. Bird: I'll butt in on the minutes because I'm the one that's against it. Last night was an excellent example, when the findings and facts come back and we sit here and we're approving finding and facts that don't even match up to our minutes, we go get the minutes. We were able to go get the minutes word for word. We could have brought a tape out I agree with that. I am one that wants to see -- all it takes is a summary to leave out one word and you've missed the whole process. If the stenographer can help with the major ones which is the land use deals, if they (inaudible). The other ones we can probably summarize, our non-land use meeting and workshop. Workshop we can no big deal. I for one think that on land use when you're dealing with controversial subjects, you pass a motion word for word and there's public sitting here that's against it and for it. Then when you come back and you pull the Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and they're all together different from what the motion was and you pass on them, you're not doing the public right. I'm not for, on land use, I'm not for not having the full set of minutes. Anderson: Even in summarized minutes, Keith the motions are wrote down word for word. Bird: I hate to, I mean, Ron I hate to go back and compare cities for the simple fact is I feel that, as bad as we are, as more efficient in a lot of areas than other cities that we do stuff. I think that our paperwork is a joke but I think that starts with ordinances, Planning and Zoning, and stuff that we require. I don't like the paperwork any better than anybody else does. However, I worry about Meridian, you know what do we need in our thing? If we go back and compare sizes of cities and stuff, some places we're out, some places we're under. De Weerd: Well, we're getting a little off track. ( Meridian City Council Special BhugetWorkshop July 18, 2001 Page 12 of 133 Bird: Yes, we are getting off track. De Weerd: You know I know that Will hasn't had a full staff to even see how it could be working, I guess that would be my first concern. I kind of get the feeling that, Will were you involved in this decision for the stenographer to loose a position to put it over there? Berg: Councilwoman de Weerd, I didn't know I was going to lose a staff person. I thought it was going to, hiring a stenographer or contracting with him was going to take the load off some of my department. Whatever the decision will be, I'll work with whatever I need to work with but I would like to comment on a few comments that were made. One I don't think you should judge my department on the temporary people I have because they only get limited job duties to do. They don't maybe understand the whole thing of what all a full time person would be doing. For instance, the receptionist, I just want to make sure the phone is answered and they're directed to the right direction and given the right information. That kind of thing. I just want you to know that's the case. Second, the minutes that you have talked about. When I started here in 93, we did summary because we were so busy and because of the things that were said in Public Hearings by both staff and developers and the applicant. I think the staff was the biggest pusher trying to get them, not verbatim but close so that they could get back on what were the conditions were or what was said by the applicant and those things. That's why the push was to do it that way. If I'm not mistaken, I think Mr. Nichols likes to look through it that way but that could be changed. I mean, whichever your direction is. Comparison to other cities. I don't think some of the large cities actually even deal with the processing of applications for P&Z and we do that. We actually get the application after it's okayed by the P&Z department and we send out the transmittals. We send out the notices. I don't have a problem with that but we do that and I don't think some of the other cities do. The other thing, I think yes you need to review the process and the procedures and fine tune it especially when you get the appropriate staff in there. I don't disagree that you know you get the right people in there that you can save the labor. Any other questions? Corrie: I don't have a question. I have a statement that I think the stenographer on four meetings, two P&Z which is land use and the two of the Council that have land use. I think it's very important that they have those minutes. I agree with both Ron and Keith. That sounds political but I think both of them have something to say that's correct. The thing is with the stenographer you can have the rough draft the next morning and in two days, probably three I believe. They said they would have the complete minutes that Council can read, the attorney can read, Planning and Zoning has a print of and they can follow what was actually said. Like Tammy said, If we had it we could have done it last night and read it. I think that is going to take some time away from the girls that sit there and try to listen to what's being said and distinguish who said what. With a stenographer, they're going to get the information and get the wording in right. I Meridian City Council Special BiJu~et Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 13 of 133 feel that that probably is a good position for the City Clerk's office to have is that stenographer to come to those four meetings. The others they can do with the staff. As far as the fourth position, actually the fifth, two Department Specialists, that will have to be your decision. We already have you (inaudible), What you do then we can go from there? I do feel that the stenographer is important because taking back and going through the figures trying to keep catching up we were going as high as 6,000 in one month trying to get caught up and we're still behind. That's going to take that cost out of there. Anderson: I guess the other thought I had there too is that this would be our first year trying this stenographer so that we ought to try that with less staff because I'm like Keith. I mean, once government creates a position then we all feel guilty getting rid of it. If we gave you that full staffing that you wanted and kept it at five and we found out at the end of next year that you're more than able to keep up with the workload, nobody is going to want to lay that person off. You're not going to want to fire her. We're not going to want to cut the position as a Council. It's easier to add a position than it is to cut one. De Weerd: I agree. (Inaudible) of our most frugal Department Head you know this is probably very difficult for me because I really trust when Will brings something forward he really strongly believes in it. You've never had a full staff and maybe the fault is you step in and fill in and every single aspect of your department. Sometimes that can come back to haunt you and maybe today it does because you've been understaffed and I don't think you've ever had that second position even staffed. Have you? Bird: No. Berg: No, we're ready to hire somebody and then some other things change so we didn't hire that person. De Weerd: So, you know with the stenographer that's going to already take a huge burden off your staff's shoulders. So, I would be in favor of seeing how it works. I know you are so frugal, or so tight you squeak and you wouldn't be asking if -- *** End Of Side Nine *** De Weerd: -- how it goes this year. Anderson: Is part of the reason why you've had such a high turn over is it the pay? What is the reason for the turn over in your office? Do you have a feel for that? You can't be that big an ogre to work for can you? Berg: I am. When we first went out for a receptionist, we did not have a very good turn out of applicants so we redid that job description and it increased from Meridian City Council Special Buu~et Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 14 of 133 the very bottom of the pay level and moved it up one. In that situation, we got 44 applicants. That might have been a problem with some of the things. We have kind of changed a few of the job descriptions and added to it. Just so you know how my department is, I do have a position step of a Senior Department Specialist. I'm not saying we hire it but a level that we could promote people up if we needed to you know to create some steps. That's just a step position not a position to hire. That might be a case too to look those over more carefully or see if our wages are too low. Anderson: The ones that have left, do you do like an exit interview to find out what their reasons are? Why do they leave? Pauline does that? Berg: Yes. Anderson: As a Department Head are you entitled to know those reasons why they leave? Pauline: Normally if there are issues that I feel needs to be brought up to the Department Heads, it's confidential. Sometimes employees will refuse to do the exit interview. I tell them it's on a need to know basis but there will be times where I will need to bring it forward to the Mayor or the Department Head if it becomes an issue. Will's department, a lot of it has just been interdepartmental personality conflict among the employees. They just didn't seem to click right and get along well with each other. Some will get frustrated and leave. What happens is he'll have a full staff, a new person starts, and then one person quits. Maybe they're a week or so overlap. Then he ends up with another open position. That's what's happened to him in the past year. If he has a full staff, then a week or two later one of them quit It's been personality conflict between employees. Berg: So, I'm hard to get along with. De Weerd: I don't think it's between you all the time Will. Anderson: It sounds like you're letting them bicker too much, not necessarily bicker with you. Bird: I think we have sometimes too much interference from other places. Berg: Are there any other questions concerning this? I think I've gotten some input there. Just one other thing that I want to bring up so it never dies. We've had in the past, dealings with a municipal center that seems to get pushed back. I would encourage you not to put it back on the burner and always keep is somewhere close and be analyzing that. We didn't budget any money for it this year to look at things. If you want to get the departments back together or something we still need to look at that concept. Meridian City Council Special B'uu\:let Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 15 of 133 De Weerd: Thanks Will. I agree. Bird: (Inaudible) De Weerd: I think that's going to be a big issue in the strategic planning. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Bird: We realize that. Will let me ask you a question before you get down from there. Ron brought up a good suggestion. Let's get you a full time in there. This time lets get a Deputy Clerk. I realize the Council is the one that appoints the Deputy Clerk but lets get a Deputy Clerk that understands their job, does their job. If they don't then you come and report to us and we relieve them. They are all willing when they hire out. I think Pauline will back me up on this. Then when it comes time to do this kind of stuff that they've been hired to do, they can't do it. So, we've got to find somebody that can do the deal. De Weerd: Why does it fall on the shoulders of Will then he has to do it? Bird: Well, as a Department Head it's just like all the Department Heads. Like I've said, they've got the City at heart and 99 percent of the employees do too. They're going to do their job and get it done if they have to do it. We need to make sure we hire employees that do it. We've kind of got bit the last two Deputy Clerks we've had. Just on that one reason. I go along with that and I would entertain just summarizing the non-land use deals but Public Hearings I don't want summarized. I don't want somebody taking out what I said in context. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Anderson: That stenographer should take care of that. De Weerd: We could never figure out what he's saying anyway. How could they? Bird: I can read it. Corrie: It's going to help with your findings and facts too. Bird: Last night to me was very embarrassing. It's never going to happen again because I'm going to make a motion that it goes away and comes back. I mean, we were so unprofessional last night on that deal that we were a joke. That isn't the first time I've been a joke. De Weerd: We were here too long. ( Meridian City Council Special Bu",~et Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 16 of 133 Berg: Just one other comment. You talked about the appointment of a Deputy Clerk, I just asked Pauline, maybe when I hire this position they go through a six- month probationary period. I didn't want to use that word sorry. Maybe after that period maybe the appointment could be done so that you can see that person is - Bird: Will, I think if you look at the ordinance they have to be appointed before they can use the stamp. They've got to be appointed and be on a probationary period at that time. They've got to be appointed because it's just like now, you're going on vacation. Who's going to be stamping the clerk's office on everything that comes in? Those papers have to be stamped, every contract, everything has to be stamped. Who's going to stamp it? Are you going to run down here every night from your vacation? Probably. De Weerd: He's going to be out of town I hope. Anderson: Is there- (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Anderson: Is there some reason why they couldn't be appointed and still be on their introductory period? Bird: Sure they can. Berg: Yes. Anderson: If their employment ceases with the City, they are no longer Deputy Clerk anyway. I wouldn't be as worried as you are about appointing them Deputy Clerk ahead of them fulfilling their introductory period because it wouldn't be an issue if you terminated their employment. Bird: After we appoint them Pauline we can give them six months can't we? However, we need to appoint them right up front, if you read the ordinance so they can do that legal stuff. We can give them a six-month probationary period can't we? Corrie: Yes, six months or a year, whatever the case may be. We can - Bird: In the appointment we can do that yes. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Corrie: It only takes three Council People to do it. Other wise it (Inaudible). Bird: Four Councilmen can take them out. Meridian City Council Special BlJuIJetWorkshop July 18,2001 Page 17 of 133 Corrie: You develop perhaps agree on what the situation is going to be as far as the job (inaudible). I think we need to look very closely at that job description and make sure whoever is coming in can fill that whole thing. I think that's Human Resources job, which she does very well. We're going to (inaudible), You and I are going to have to get together and make the decision who I appoint. Then the Council is going to have to be involved at the same time with that. We'll keep them up to date but I think Human Resource, you, and I we should come up with the correct person again. Hopefully, (inaudible). Berg: Anything else? Bird: No. Berg: Thank you. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Skeggs: I'm going to start off with my goals and objectives because I don't have any enhancements and I'm not asking for anything this year. I would like to thank the Council, Mayor for allowing me to hire last year because that really made my department efficient and I did go through one individual that wasn't able to do the job. After a couple months, and seeing now with the individual I ended up replacing the individual and I have an individual now that is able to pick up the workload that I needed that person to do. It has made my department really efficient. I do thank the Mayor and Council for allowing me to hire. This year I'm not asking for anything but I just wanted to go over the goals that I had set for this year. I have completed five of the goals. I'm in the process of the other three completing them. In addition to the goals that I had completed, which it was I hired the staff employee. I trained, I wrote department procedures for her, update the compensation program and I'm in the process of putting together an excel spreadsheet that will automatically update the COLA and salaries for both the police and the city programs where it will -- you just put in a formula and it spreads it across. Then we'll be able to, when we go through the budget process, just put what the COLA is going to be and it will show you what the impact will be for salaries for all employees. It's just going to simplify it where you will just get it computerized. Then I'll make sure that accounting has that information. I updated the City policy manual. It's actually currently with the City's Attorney's office for review. Once we get that finalized, we'll make those changes and then that will be ready to go. The alcohol and drug policy has been completed and has also been accepted by the fire fighter's union. The next step is to choose a lab. What we're doing is I sent out a memo with a copy of that and asked for certain departments to give me a representative where they can sit on a committee so we can choose a lab, Once we choose a lab, basically it will be brought before city Council for approval. Once approved we'll do the training for Meridian City Council Special BuugetWorkshop July 18, 2001 Page 18 of 133 the managers, supervisors and employees. Then we'll have that in place for new hires and random and accidents and the whole system. De Weerd: You'll start with us right? Bird: Yes. Skeggs: Yes, you'll be asked to volunteer to participate. De Weerd: I think we should. Don't eat poppy seed muffins. Skeggs: I also implemented a criminal background procedure for new hires, transfers, and promotions this year. It has worked very well. So far, we've had one individual that was let go because of a record but other than, that it's been working very well. The employees are made an offer of employment contingent on them going through that. It's only certain positions that require that such as if they are handling cash, accounts, or they're dealing with children, like the police and fire dealing with the public and stuff or they're driving city vehicle. So, that's in place. We also enhanced the city's benefit program. We implemented a (inaudible) program to include a pre-tax premium only program plus the medical reimbursement and dependent care program. Employees are really pleased with that. I know employees that didn't participate last year have contacted my office to find out when open enrollment is because now that they understand it more where other employees are in the program they said well I wish I would have enrolled. It will probably be more enrollments for next year. We actually, I sat up and coordinated the recruitment process for the Chief of Police. That's done. I think last night a person got appointed for that. Also, as a follow up to the employee opinion survey, organized management training that happened last month. Actually, employees now are going to go through training what will start next week. I'll put a memo in your box so if there are any City Council Members that want to attend that training; you're welcome to attend. I've also written and put together affirmative action program to gather statistical information on recruitment. This was required because we have government grants. All these additional activities I was able to do because of the staff person that came in and could process the day-to-day paperwork. I know that you guys are anxious as far as -- like I said, I don't have any additions or enhancements to ask for. I know that you guys are anxious bout the compensation program, the cost of living. So, what I will do is I've got some handouts for you. Bird: More paperwork. De Weerd: More treats. (Inaudible discussion from staff members) De Weerd: You just need to consolidate it. Meridian City Council Special BlJugetWorkshop July 18, 2001 Page 19 of 133 Bird: Have you got this summarized? De Weerd: In one paragraph. Bird: In one paragraph. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Skeggs: That packet just goes over the goals, the history, and activities that I've done this year. It also has in there a memo that I had sent to Stacy in regard to the cost of living increase, Basically, we implemented it with the western region last year. We took a look at it again. I had contacted Wade Larson with OLR who handled that with me last year. Last year though he was working for lAC. He has now went on his own. He gave me some information on that and he said that we need to look at the western region urban BC index because the population is 50,000 to 500 and that's more in line with the Treasure Valley. For last year, the index shows the increase at 2.9 percent and so I've also contacted several cities to find out what they're doing with their cost of living if they're giving one and also a merit increase. I found that other cities are giving a 3.37 percent for a COLA and the merit increase or the step increase; the ranges are from three to four percent. So, to keep in line with that, I am recommending and proposing a three percent cost of living for the employees and then the three percent merit. That's why the performance based program. The way we set up the police officers, they're in a step program so the merit portion is already built into the program so when we shift the ranges to three percent they'll get their three percent plus whatever the shift in that range is. So, it's already included in there. De Weerd: The COLA has already been figured into the base budget. Is that co rrect? Skeggs: Yes. Bird: Pauline, this is the plan that you are working on, the step program for the rest of the employees. Am I not right? Skeggs: Yes, Bird: By the way, I want to tell you what a nice job you did. Skeggs: We had looked at salary. We had to make some adjustments last year. I don't anticipate any adjustments except for the wastewater. We have to review the mechanics positions. Other than that, all other city employees have been adjusted to where they should be. The Department Heads think they need more but what we came out with we made all those adjustments. f Meridian City Council Special BlJugetWorkshop July 18, 2001 Page 20 of 133 Bird: Pauline on the adjustments and stuff, we've got ourselves up, pretty competitive with private, of course with private don't have near the benefits that we do. Skeggs: Right. Bird: We have done that and I personally want to thank you for getting us up. ]t's helped out in our Public Works tremendously, as you know. Skeggs: Right. Bird: Hiring people. Skeggs: Yes, we got several employees from other cities. Also, on the health insurance to give you an update there is a rate increase. The highest increase does impact our health insurance. Slue Cross is recommending a 40 percent increase at this point. The broker now has it out to bid and we should get information on that next month. In the interim, we have a benefits committee and we have met with the broker to find out and to kind of review some other options in case Blue Cross doesn't go down. Either asking employees to contribute to a higher portion of the insurance or looking at increasing the prescription drug. There are several areas. So, what we have done, like with the fire we did an 80 20. So that might be something that we end up doing for City employees. What we did is the broker put together an actual employee survey to see how they like the programs we have in place. What are they willing to pay? That's going to be put into this payroll check. Hopefully from the information, we gather we'll have more information on what the employees are willing to do. Then the committee will meet back next month to discuss the options, We will have the actual quotes back from Blue Cross and they will bid them out with other insurance carriers. The reason the increase for the health insurance is so high is that we had some really high claims the last past two years. We're now experience rated on our own. We're not group rated because for a group rating the increase is an average of 18 percent. However, because of our high utilization they are wanting to increase it 40 percent. Bird: Pauline, what would be the feasibility, you know the claims we've had in the last two years but what would be the feasibility of raising the city's buy back to -- out in the private world a lot of them have even raised it to 2,000. Skeggs: If we had a higher deductible that would also reduce -- Bird: That's what I'm saying and the city pays back -- Skeggs: We can also look at even eliminating the -- Meridian City Council Special BUu!Jet Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 21 of 133 Bird: -- 75 percent of it. Skeggs: -- that program because right now with our deductibles at 500 and 1000 but we pay back 400 or 800. 100 and 200 deductibles is unheard of. Bird: You're right. Skeggs: That just doesn't happen. Bird: What would it do if we went to 2000 with 1000 payback? Skeggs: We could do that. A lot of cities that have a buy back program, we're paying 100 percent. Bird: I know you are. Skeggs: They only pay 80 20. You know they pay 80 percent and the employees are responsible for the 20 just like the medical program. Those are options that we are going to look at with the benefits committee and discuss more once we have the survey results back. Bird: Who is our broker? Skeggs: Marsh. Bird: Marsh? Skeggs: It was Cederick. They became Marsh. We are also having an increase, like Delta Dental increases nine percent. Short-term disability is a 20 percent increase but they're actually bidding that out so hopefully we'll get a lower rate. Again, high utilization, we had a lot of people go out. Business psychology, they're increasing three percent. They haven't given an increase in years. This is the first increase in a while. Then the life insurance is increasing eight percent and long-term disability as well. Those were the preliminaries. Bird: What was the disability? Skeggs: Eight percent, long term and then the life insurance. Bird: What was the short term? Skeggs: Short term is 20 percent. Bird: 20? ( Meridian City Council Special Buu!,jet Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 22 of 133 Corrie: One of the things that we did look at in this committee is the prescription. If we go the 10 20, 10.00 dollar deductible for generics and 20 for the -- Bird: Great. Corrie: -- other. That would probably (inaudible). Skeggs: Right. It's decreased it five to nine percent decrease. Corrie: -- that amount right there is -- again, like she said, we are looking at this possibility of this buy back because it's an unheard of benefit. We've got to do something because it could start eating us alive. Bird: I don't know of any private industry that gives a 200.00 dollar deductible. I mean, ifs not heard of any more. Out on the private world you can't afford the medical if you have that kind of stuff. You can't afford it. Anderson: Pauline I was just going to suggest too though that kind of setting back as an observer and watching what's happening over in Nampa with the City employees. I think it would be good to do some education with our employees to not only try to funnel this information through your insurance committee but have meetings with various groups of city employees. Whether you go the Waste Treatment Plant or you go to the Fire Department or the Police Department or City Hall or where ever but meet with various employee groups and explain to them what's happening with these premiums and what the costs are doing. Also explain about the three percent COLA and the three percent merit increases and say look we only have X amount of money. You guys have to do something to help us control these costs. We were talking a little bit in the hallway yesterday out here too. I think a lot of people just feel like because they have insurance, they go see a doctor for every little cut and hang nail and everything else. If they realize that our rates are being based off of our history then maybe they would try to avoid some of those little costs that right now they don't understand the significance of that. So, they go to the doctor for everything. If we can get them involved and educated and on board about what the cost of these premiums are doing and what we're going to have to do. We're going to have to raise deductibles or eliminate the buy back program and some of those things then they can help us with those rates also. Skeggs: I agree. Once we get the data back from the survey and once we get the actual firm quotes then we can sit down and have meetings and discuss it with the employees and say this is why this is what we're doing. Also, if we can promote like the PPO plan and get more employees into it, those are lower rates. Right now, we only have 33 employees in that program. Some employees just feel more comfortable with their traditional program but they're not even utilizing the program. Therefore, if they're in the PPO and they're never going to use their r \. Meridian City Councll Special Buuyet Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 23 of 133 deductible that's a cost savings to the city. You're right education, further education and making employees aware will probably help us in our process. Bird: I think it's very important that you do it face to face with them - Skeggs: Right. Bird: -- and not through a letter. Skeggs: Right. Bird: Is this PEO or PTO or whatever you call it- De Weerd: PPO. Skeggs: PPO. Bird: PPO? Is that - Skeggs: Preferred Provider Organization. Bird: Okay. Has that been done to them face to face in a deal? Skeggs: Yes. Bird: Okay. Skeggs: Yes. They understand that. De Weerd: But if they understood either they would participate in something like that or we have to look at other ways to reduce the price. I think that's pretty compelling. I know I'm in a PPO. Corrie: A lot of the times it depends on what their decision is, if they're in a PPO too. Skeggs: With the PPO they have to manage their program really. If the go to a doctor and the doctor and the doctor refers them out, then basically what they need to do is to take the book to the doctor and say okay you're referring me to you know a specialist. These are the doctors on my list, who would you recommend? Some employees just feel if their doctor refers them to somebody oh, they referred me and they go. They don't look into it. I know in orientation I tell the employees you have to manage your own program. You have to manage your own care. Even in the traditional program I said you can go to any doctor of. your choice but the traditional program if they're not in the provider list and you go to a doctor not in there they could back bill you for the difference. Say you Meridian City Council Special Buuget Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 24 of 133 have surgery and it's 15,000.00 dollars. Blue Cross says reasonable and customary is 9,000 well they're going to back bill the employee the difference. I tell them I say you need to still manage your care when you go into the traditional program. Most of the providers are in the traditional program. There's only like 66 percent are in the PPO. That's new to Idaho and as it grows -- I also tell employees if you're doctor's not in there ask your doctor if he's interested in becoming a provider. A lot of the times the doctor will say yes what do I need to do. Give them the information and they can call Blue Cross and get all the information that way as well so they can get more providers in there. But you're right, education is important and we need to do more of that. De Weerd: I know a couple of doctors backed out of the program last year, One of them was ours. Corrie: Looking at the national level too, there are some things coming down from congress that make the changes (inaudible). Skeggs: Right. Corrie: Hopefully -- one of the bills is being tied in with the senior citizens bills. There are three trailers on there. If that goes through and the president signs we can take advantage of that and save us quite a bit. Bird: I think that as Ron stated earlier these employees need to know. I don't believe that we can absorb the extra cost. It's going to have -- I mean, I know in our company that if we get the thing we have to pay it, the extra cost. As bad as I hate to say it, I just don't think we can absorb it within our budget and do right by everything else. Skeggs: I know when we presented it to the union members we did say we can either give it to you in salaries or benefits. It's your choice what you want. They opted to choose salaries to pay higher for the benefits. Bird: Well, yes. De Weerd: So, the cost that we have in our base budget at this point- Bird: Shows the 35 percent. De Weerd: -- shows the- Bird: 35 percent. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Skeggs: 25. Meridian City Council Special Buuget Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 25 of 133 Bird: 25. De Weerd: 25. Bird: I thought it said 35 over there, (Inaudible discussion from staff members) De Weerd: Okay. So, they're still -- I mean there's a huge possibility that it's going to be more than that? Skeggs: Yes. De Weerd: Those are the meetings that your committee will facilitate so when we go into this budget year, we're setting the limit here. Then anything else will be a reorganization of benefits through the input that you get back from the employees - Skeggs: Exactly. De Weerd: -- and your committee? Okay. Bird: Okay, very good. Anderson: Have these, all the salaries that we've been looking at in all the different departments, have they been based off of this three percent -- Skeggs: Three percent. Anderson: -- COLA and three percent merit? De Weerd: Not the merit. Bird: No, notthe merit. Skeggs: Not the merit. You just put in the COLA right? De Weerd: On our budget sheet for the enhancements in the summary it shows it, you know two, three, and four. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) De Weerd: That would be for all the people covered under the general fund for that one section? Okay. Meridian City Council Special Buuget Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 26 of 133 Bird: I have no more questions. Very nice job Pauline. De Weerd: Yes. Thank you for all your work. You have made some wonderful strides this last year. We appreciate that. Bird: The last two years. Skeggs: Well, it has helped to have help. When you have an efficient department and you have individuals that will work really hard at it, it does make a difference because we don't have time to goof off. I mean, we run to the bathroom. We run back. That's it. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Skeggs: Yes. De Weerd: You had some good challenges. Anderson: You're allowed to take bathrooms breaks? (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Skeggs: But we run to the bathroom. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Anderson: They've got those little bags now. You can strap them right to their waist. They don't even need to leave the workspace. Bird: Order an A company, to put in her office. Corrie: Okay. We'll do that. De Weerd: I think it's covered by insurance too. Corrie: Short term disability. De Weerd: Bathroom break. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Anderson: I would like to thank Pauline personally. She was a big help during the fire fighter negotiations. Thank you Pauline. Bird: Mayor, can we take a little break? I Meridian City Council Special Buuget Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 27 of 133 Corrie: No. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Corrie: Yes. Let's take a break. Then we'll have Stacy (inaudible). (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Bird: I've got to run and come back? RECESS AT 10:50 A.M. RECONVENED AT 11 :10 A.M. Corrie: Okay. We're back from our recess. Stacy with the Treasurer's Department I guess, you three ladies. Janice and Reta. Kilchenmann: Mayor and Council the next step is (inaudible). We have the general fund and on the list of enhancements (inaudible). (Inaudible) because I don't know how you want to do that. (Inaudible) if you want to discuss it department by department. However you normally (Inaudible). Bird: Stacy- De Weerd: That's important. Bird: Stacy, you've done such a good job, you gals have of getting this budget through. You tell us how you want to do it. That's my opinion. How do you want to include it? Kilchenmann: (Inaudible) and maybe there's some that you (inaudible) and we can eliminate those and some that you feel (inaudible). Then we can just start looking (inaudible). De Weerd: Where we're at? Bird: Okay. Is that fair with everybody? Anderson: You bet. De Weerd: Sounds good to me. Anderson: They don't call me slash Anderson for nothing. Bird: Say what? Meridian City Council Special Buuget Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 28 of 133 Berg: We (inaudible). Bird: I would like to see his slashes in the Nampa fire budget. Wouldn't you? Wouldn't you guys like to see that? (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Bird: I'll bet there are no slashes in that. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Bird: Maxine probably says the same thing. I don't see any slashes in the fire department. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Bird: I like our budget out there. It's what we make and what we can spend. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Bird: Once in a while we spend more than we make. Anderson: lUke the (inaudible) we should get the same dollar value of whatever property we have saved. We'd have millions. De Weerd: How profound. What a profound thought. Bird: Coming from a mattress back that's a pretty - Anderson: Coming from a peeping Tom glass cleaner who only works one day a week. Bird: Yes, I'm not on the fire department. Corrie: This meeting will be adjourned in five seconds. Kilchenmann: (Inaudible). Bird: Do you want us to use that chart there? Kilchenmann: (Inaudible). De Weerd: Can we get a print? I didn't bring my glasses. Anderson: I'll read it to you. Meridian City Council Special BUDget Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 29 of 133 Corrie: Don't ever say I don't share with you. Anderson: It's on the front page. De Weerd: I wondered how you saw out of those things. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Anderson: It's right there on the front page. Bird: Here's the fire. I'd offer you mine but they're dirty. De Weerd: I can't see through yours either. Both of you I remember saying (inaudible ). Corrie: Okay. Here we are at fire. Anderson: If I had my choice - (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Anderson: -- I would leave the opticom. Bird: Just a second Ron let me get a note pad her to write it down. De Weerd: Just use your summary sheet. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Anderson: Obviously the reason being is as new intersections or stoplights are put in, in Meridian's area they have, ACHD doesn't fund the equipment. Using the dollar figures anywhere from about 2,000 to 4,000 per intersection, that would do about three or four intersections that may possibly go in. I think that's something that's needed. De Weerd: Yes. Anderson: Kenny has trimmed that a lot, because he used to always put 30,000 in there every year. So, he's being more realistic now about the number of intersections. De Weerd: Thank you (inaudible). Anderson: The three new fire fighters, I feel like that's something as Keith indicated that we had kind of made a promise in the meeting that we did with the rural fire district commissioners. I also am very concerned about that we don't Meridian City Council Special Buugel Workshop July 18. 2001 Page 30 of 133 add too much under that personnel column up on there because as the numbers pan out in there there's roughly a half million dollars in personnel enhancements that all the departments are asking for. I'm very cognizant of that fact and I guess I would say if we can swing it and we all feel comfortable I would leave the three new fire fighters in there. The reason being is this would offset considerably the amount of overtime. We would in a sense see a little bit of savings on that three fire fighters from reduced overtime cost that will be incurred if we don't hire those three. The fire inspector that would be one position. I know they've got it rated pretty high on their priority list but it would be one position that I would cut at this point just because, again I don't want to add too much to the personnel. There's no doubt in my mind that the work is there and it's a justifiable position. I also feel like too that the fire department is kind of like Will's office in the sense that they haven't really been full staffed at any of the three years that I've been on the Council. They've always been either looking for an assistant chief, in charge of operations of training or they're replacing a fire marshal or somebody else. This would give them the opportunity to at least get a year under their belt working full staff and find out just how much they can do. The other thing is I think if you create that position then you naturally, there will be the tendency by the on duty crews to say well we don't have to do the inspections because you've got a fire inspector to do that. I think it's important to keep them active in that. When you cut the fire inspector position then it automatically, cuts the last one down there, the office addition because they don't need that at that point if they're not going to hire the fire inspector. De Weerd: Thank you. Bird: Thank you. Anderson: The equipment, the 75,000 there. I think -- I'm trying to find that list. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) De Weerd: Do you want my list? Anderson: I found it here. De Weerd: I like other miscellaneous. I always love miscellaneous categories. Bird: Yes, I do too, De Weerd: They're my favorite. Anderson: Other miscellaneous. De Weerd: We have 21,000 in the miscellaneous category. ( Meridian City Council Special BUugel Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 31 of 133 Corrie: 21,000 for a (inaudible). Anderson: I do know that they have a shortage of hose and also if we do approve the purchase of the one fire engine, they're going to need to buy equipment to put on that. Bird: This also includes the computer server doesn't it Ron that they need also in that equipment? Anderson: Right. That's in there for 12, 5. Bird: Do they need the full 75, or could you -- Anderson: That's what I was thinking that we might be able to cut them down to like 60,000. Bird: Okay. De Weerd: Take out the miscellaneous. Yes. Then they can shop and be frugal and whatever they can get by without. The four-wheel drive unit that is for the existing position that we're in the process of filling now, the assistant chief slash training officer. I think they have 38,000 listed there. I would think they could probably do fairly well with that 38,000. I was trying to think. I think they did equip their other deputy chief's car with an opticom. They probably would need the 38,000 for that vehicle. Bird: They put a light bar on it Ron. Anderson: Light bar and radio and opticom. Bird: Remember they are going full size too this time. They're not going small one. Anderson: Yes. Bird: 38 will cover it? Anderson: Probably because like I said, on state bid you can buy one of those suburbans for 28, 5. So that gives them about 10 to buy the light bar, the radio, the opticom, the console, the whatever else they need in that. On the fire engines, we were going to cut that to one and that would be 300,000. Then the fire training props I guess I would probably cut that down to about 50,000 from the 300,000 which would allow them to build a couple of props and do some planning and get started on the process there. Meridian City Council Special BUuget Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 32 of 133 De Weerd: So, on the fire engine, you would not need additional money to equip it? Anderson: I think that's covered under this other equipment. De Weerd: Okay. Corrie: (I naudible). Anderson: Because they told us that they needed about 30,000 to equip an engine. They'll have to just tighten the belt and see what they can come up with for that. De Weerd: Then we want to asterisk the 300,000 right? That would be added to the fire trucks? Anderson: That would come out of the fire truck fund. De Weerd: So, Ron we're at the ten five for the opticom, the 156333 for the fire fighters, 60,000 for the equipment, 38,000 for the vehicle and 300,000 for the fire engine? Anderson: Yes. Corrie: We've already had money in then for the 300, so that would be part of the fire truck fund that's already there, right? Bird: Yes. De Weerd: Right. Bird: If I added up right their enhancement as Ron stated there would be 314,833. Anderson: 314833? Bird: Yes. That's taking the 300,000 out of the -- Anderson: There shouldn't be a three at the end of it because nothing starts with a three. There should be a zero at the end - De Weerd: No, it's 264833. Bird: How much? (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Meridian City Council Special Buul,jetWorkshop July 18, 2001 Page 33 of 133 Bird: Yes, you've got 156333. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) De Weerd: Keith. Bird: What? (Inaudible discussion from staff members) De Weerd: 314? (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Anderson: That's good. You guys are right on top of it. De Weerd: You guys are cool. Corrie: Can I have a copy of that now? De Weerd: Yes, I can't see it. Corrie: Okay. Anderson: The fire engine, okay you've got it out to the side. Okay. All right. De Weerd: How come I keep getting 264? Bird: I don't know Tammy. Are you putting the 156333 in there? (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Bird: The computer is never wrong. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Anderson: Well, lets see what everybody can do. Bird: Yes. Anderson: Let's see what Tammy can do on parks. They've got a lot of en hancements. Bird: Yes. ( Meridian City Council Special BuugetWorkshop July 18,2001 Page 34 of 133 De Weerd: Where am I wrong? (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) De Weerd: Okay that's what I don't have. Bird: He cut it from 300 to 50. De Weerd: Oh, okay. Anderson: That 314, the three is already pulled out of that? (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) De Weerd: Yes, lets see what (inaudible). (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) De Weerd: Oh, I have this in front of me. That 833? (Inaudible). So, park's enhanced presentation, he did delete down to -- (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) De Weerd: He had between 250 to 300,000. Phase one came in at 250,000 so the high end of that would be including 50,000 to get the playground group started in a fund raising activity. It would only be used for that playground. Bird: Just a second, what are we talking about? De Weerd: Phase one of the 56 acres. Bird: That's 500,000 and what did he cut it down to? De Weerd: He had it between 250 to 300. The 250 are strictly for the diagram that he showed you. Do you still have what he gave you in your packets? Bird: Yes. Anderson: Yes. De Weerd: Then the 50,000 would be towards the playground equipment that this playground group is raising for. Bird: What do you want to put in 300 or 250? De Weerd: Well, if we could put in 300, and then take a look at things. ( Meridian City Council Special BULlgetWorkshop July 18, 2001 Page 35 of 133 Bird: Okay. De Weerd: We do need to start setting money aside for land acquisition. Not that 100,000 is going to buy us a lot but we do need to start establishing the sinking fund that when something does come up or when a developer is willing to donate a certain a property and we need to add little bit to it that we have something that we can pullout of. I don't see that as happening this year but you never know if it's going to happen or not. Bird: How much do you want to stick in there? De Weerd: 100,000. Bird: 100? De Weerd: Yes, these two amounts are out of impact fees. Bird: So, we shouldn't count them? De Weerd: Well,-- Bird: Wait a minute now, like the truck fee. Anderson: She can fund up to 400 -- How much was it 400 and what you had in impact fees? De Weerd: It's 400,000. Anderson: 400 even? De Weerd: And in this, it says that park impact fees are 522, 529. (Inaudible discussion from staff members) Bird: 500,OOO? De Weerd: Yes, can I get some of that interest in my account? Now, we had then the Storey Park project. He's been talking about this for over two years now. Last year was the first phase of that with the irrigation for - *** End of Side Ten *** De Weerd: -- in that number. I hesitate to put a number on it yet because Council approved 60,000 this last year. He said he had money for it and now he's re-budgeting it. Is it to be re-budgeted or is to be carried forward? Meridian City Council Special Buaget Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 36 of 133 (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Anderson: So, he was short that much to carry over. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Anderson: I don't think Tom really understands like fund carry over, when he carries it over and if he used part of that. I mean, you guys need to explain that to him. (Inaudible discussion from staff members) Anderson: (Inaudible) Bird: He can't spend it out of his line item without coming to us. De Weerd: He did come to us and we did approve it. Anderson: But, that's because we asked him the question do you have this in your budget? In reality, he doesn't have it in his budget if he spent part of it the year before. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) De Weerd: But it's money that we have committed to the Chamber. Anderson: I think for clarification purposes in the future what we need to do is it's an enhancement if they never start a project it should be considered an enhancement. It would be a carry over if they actually start to expend funds for that particular project. Then they would have to fill out the paperwork and make that a carry over. (Inaudible discussion from staff members) Anderson: Yes, there has to be money expended out of that to make that a carry over. That indicates they've started that project. If they never started the project, then they might as well start it from scratch and it's an enhancement again for the next year. (I naudible discussion amongst Council members) Bird: I thought in our audit that like if we started a contract in August for 100,000. We signed the contract there we had it in the budget for that fiscal year. I thought according to Balukoff and them that that money didn't have to be -- that money didn't have to be accounted for until that contract was done regardless if it ( Meridian City Council Special BLiaget Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 37 of 133 went for a year or where it went. I mean, it's in that fiscal year budget. Am I not right on that Reta? Did I misunderstand him? (Inaudible discussion from staff members) Bird: Yes, but that's out of that fiscal year. He don't bring it forward or you don't show it on the next year's budget because it was out of the -- you've got a contract and you maybe paid out of that 100,000 20,000 for a months draw. That's the way I understood it when I talked to Balukoff. Corrie: You've still got to add it into your budget because it wouldn't be there. Bird: No, it's in your budget that year and you've got a contract that takes care of all that. Corrie: But you've got to back it off though. Bird: I must have misunderstood Balukoff when they did that and we were talking about it. (Inaudible discussion from staff members) De Weerd: Because that's how long it took the project -- Bird: Yes. De Weerd: Unfortunately in the Parks Department because of the seasons that's generally how the parks budget works quite similar to some of the enterprise departments. One thing that this Council has committed to is that 60,000 and 80,000 I think for Bear Creek. Our accounting staff says those funds were available. I think he'll spend the Bear Creek money this year. He anticipates it. It's just that 60,000. Do I just make the Storey Park 120 or do I add the 60,000 to it to make it 180? In that park, we can't use impact fees because it's an existing park. (Inaudible discussion from staff members) Bird: What do you want to put in there? (Inaudible discussion from staff members) De Weerd: I wasn't there. At the workshop he asked for money? Anderson: Yes. De Weerd: For what? For Bear Creek? ( Meridian City Council Special BU":'i::letWorkshop July 18, 2001 Page 38 of 133 Bird: We didn't approve it. We couldn't approve it. De Weerd: 63,000 more? Bird: No, 3500. De Weerd: Oh, yes 3500. He said that was within the budget. Bird: That's what he told us. (Inaudible discussion from staff members) Bird: No wait a minute. Yes. De Weerd: The 3500? No, I asked specifically is that part of the 100,000 that was budgeted or the 80,000 that we additionally gave you? He said it's within budget. So, I assume it's within that 100,000 and he's not taking it out of the pathway. The 80,000 came out of the pathway but that 350 or 3,500 that came out of his 100,000. Yes. That's how I specifically asked it but I'm not going to depend on my memory after last night's fiasco. Bird: How much do you want to put in there? De Weerd: If it can be carried forward, I would like it to be carried forward. (Inaudible discussion from staff members) De Weerd: Yes. What 63? (Inaudible discussion from staff members) De Weerd: Oh, (inaudible) for carry forward on Bear Creek? (Inaudible discussion from staff members) De Weerd: He can work that out with you guys. I don't see it on here. If he wants it added he needs to come and talk to you guys and then you guys will tell us. If you guys want to approve it then I'm okay with that. But, I'm more concerned with the 60,000 that we committed this year. I would like to see that carry forward. Then we budget the 120,000 for the Storey Park playground slash whatever. Bird: What do you want to write down here? De Weerd: 120,000. Meridian City Council Special Buu!Jet Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 39 of 133 Bird: Okay. Anderson: Just for the playground? De Weerd: For the playground. He's taking that lower road out, not the restroom, chamber expansion but the parking and playground. Bird: It's just below it. 60,000 for the Chamber is right below it. De Weerd: I know. That's carry forward. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) De Weerd: We okayed it this year out of -- he came to Council with it. Bird: We okayed it for this year. De Weerd: Yes, but Nampa Meridian delayed the Chamber and the Chamber is going through P&Z in August. They still think they might start on it before October. So, you know it's hard to say Keith but we committed this year. I would like to keep it in this year's commitment. Bird: I have no problem but I'm not going to add it in as an enhancement this year and then get it out this year and give the department an extra 60,000. De Weerd: I'm not asking for an enhancement this year. Bird: Okay. De Weerd: It's just a carry forward. If some of it is taken -- whatever is not taken before the end of the budget year will be carried forward. Bird: Okay. Anderson: I thought that Chamber restroom, our part of it was 25,000. De Weerd: No. Bird: It was 60 Ron. De Weerd: Yes. Anderson: It's a nice bathroom. Meridian City Council Special BiJu!;let Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 40 of 133 De Weerd: Well, it's got to be ADA, right now we're not ADA compliant with the bathrooms. Bird: It's got to be (inaudible). De Weerd: They're adding more. Bird: Holy cow, man you know what the bathroom is like when we tried to get you in there and get you watered down on your fire. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Bird: Yes. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Bird: We tried to (inaudible). (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Bird: We'd get water on him and gees you could hardly get in the thing. One thing about that bathroom, you don't have to worry about any (inaudible). (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) De Weerd: Okay. Skate Park, I really hesitate on that one because when we were approached last year he said anything over and above what we gave him would be fund raising. Bird: I'm not for giving it a penny. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Bird: I'm not for giving a penny. De Weerd: No, (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Bird: That was a statement that he sat right here and told us. De Weerd: That's the statement he gave us. Corrie: The kids will do it. ( Meridian City Council Special Buuget Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 41 of 133 Anderson: We seem to have a recurring problem with Tom or whoever his architect is that every project, when we get an estimate then they all seem to come in over budget. Whether he's adding stuff to those afterwards or what but he needs to realize that when he gives us a number that he has to stay within a budget. I feel like we gave them a fair number of what they presented to us and if they have to cut some of the amenities, cut the size, or raise private donations, then they need to meet the budget. De Weerd: Yes. Bird: I agree with you Ron. De Weerd: I don't feel that the 20,000 is justified. That's just on the discussions that we had with him yesterday. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) De Weerd: He wanted to reduce his-- (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) De Weerd: Yes. Anderson: That's what he asked on that. De Weerd: The large mower, I would support that and not support a half, a part time grounds maintenance additional person. I do think that we do need the mower and that can help. It's kind of again, like the fire inspector position and Will's position. You know let's see how we are when we get this equipment that is supposed to save time. We don't have extra ground yet. I'll believe it when I see it. Bird: Amen. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Bird: How about the - De Weerd: I'm so anxious to see it. Bird: How about the seasonal recreational aide? Anderson: She said take that out. Bird: She said grounds keeper. ( Meridian City Council Special BLJuget Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 42 of 133 Anderson: No, recreation. De Weerd: No. Bird: I'm for taking that out too. De Weerd: Well, the recreational aide, if you have taken a look at how she has grown and the anticipation for next year. I think it's justified and he did say yesterday among any of those that is one of their highest priorities, So, I'll leave it for your discussion but after reading the material she gave us and just seeing the huge increase in the adult programs this year. That does take a lot of time to run. Bird: You're right. De Weerd: She's being conservative. She's reducing the amount of revenues versus expenses for next year. I think it's a good investment at this point. We'll see how it goes next year. Anderson: If you look at the cost of that 6,000 is (inaudible). Bird: It'll pay for itself. If she does it it'll pay for itself. (Inaudible discussion from staff members) Bird: What about the project design services, 35,000? De Weerd: I know he had the survey in the budget last year and we wanted him at that time to get this master plan through the process and approved. We still haven't gotten to that point but if we're going into Strategic Planning and the five- year long-term capitol, you know this survey might be beneficial to setting some direction. Bird: I thought he had it started and then have we paid for it? De Weerd: No. The master plan is almost done. Bird: And it's been paid for? De Weetd: Yes. This is a survey for- Bird: Rec center? De Weerd: -- community center and recreation program. Anderson: (Inaudible) it says a project design survey. Meridian City Council Special Buuget Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 43 of 133 Bird: Yes. Anderson: I mean that leads me to believe that he's designing a project, not getting consulting (inaudible). De Weerd: There were a couple of things. If you look at his request it also, he was approached this year by a veteran's group. They did some work in Storey Park for a memorial area. They believe they can get it in kind. I think the survey itself was 25,000. The commission didn't have it ranked real high. He didn't rank it; it's down there towards the bottom of his list. Anderson: Community center assessment, 25,000. I personally don't think that we ought to pay to have an assessment done for that. I mean, I think that would be $25,000,00 that he could spend towards a project. Bird: Playground equipment. Anderson: It's to me a no-brainer that the community wants a center. It's a matter of when we can afford a center. I mean, there's not even a question in my mind that there would be a high percentage of people in this community says we want one. It's just how do we pay for it. De Weerd: And how do you define it? That's what a lot of it was. If you support such a facility, what do you want to see in it because I know a number of years ago when the Mayor had his ad hock committee everyone in that room had a different idea of what it should be. That's kind of, what the survey was trying to assess, not only for the community center but for other design aspects in the parks. What kind of amenities does the community want to see? If they want to escalate that process, would they be willing to support it through a bond effort or through various different financing options? Or a serial levy like what they've done with the greenbelt and the foothills. It was more of a very comprehensive and un-challengable type of approach to gauge what do people want and not just in a community center but in the park system and in the recreational offerings. It was more comprehensive than just focusing on the community center. As we say in the Mayor's committee people had different ideas. How do you start pooling it all to know what people want? That's what was even suggested to Council and none of us were on there at the time. That's a recommendation that his committee finally brought to Council is that's what we need to do. Anderson: I understand that. The problem I have with doing that at this point before you're ready to build it is the players will change, people will change. If you would have come ten years ago into this community and you wanted to build a park, a Skate Park wouldn't have even been an option because people didn't in line skate and skating wasn't that big a thing. Until we're ready to build it -- I agree when you get ready to build it then you ought to get a committee together. Meridian City Council Special BuulJet Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 44 of 133 You ought to do a survey, okay what do you want in it? At this point, I feel like we would just be wasting that money because we don't have the money to build a community center at this point. I do agree that it would be nice to have some expertise to explore some funding avenues for that but I think you could do that without all the citizen involvement. Just get some expertise on financing and what your options are there to look at that. I don't think that would take 25,000 dollars in consulting to do. Bird: I think also that personally I would like to see us, one year instead of worrying about having a bunch of consulting fees and stuff through the parks, lets get out and finish what we've already got planned. Take care of, throw the money at that, and let's show some progress in a fiscal year of what we've done. I know you believe in that just as much as I do, I mean, we can sit here and plan and have surveys and have survey and throw money at it. He's got 35,000 for project design services. That 35,000 would go a long ways to putting in playground equipment, putting in a soccer field or putting in a lot of stuff that I think -- what I'm hearing from the public out there is they want to see the finished product right now. We're so far behind in parks Tammy as you know as much as I do that it's not funny. They want to see the finished product that they can go and enjoy. De Weerd: We all would like to see the finished product Keith. Bird: Anyway, what do you want on that 35,000? De Weerd: Mayor, do you have anything to add? Corrie: I didn't say anything at all. De Weerd: Okay. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) De Weerd: (Inaudible). Bird: Softball equipment trailer. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Bird: He took the trailer out? Okay. (Inaudible discussion from staff members) De Weerd: Zero. Bird: Zero. ! Meridian City Council Special BUu\Jet Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 45 of 133 De Weerd: I feel strongly about asphalting the shop yard. Again, it's a commitment that our City is trying to advocate paving graveled areas for air mitigation reasons. If we're not going to do it ourselves, how can we be asking other people to do it? I would suggest the 10,000 that he has listed there. The Bear Creek softball bleachers, I do not support. I think that Bear Creek has accelerated far above and beyond what we even talked about last budget year. I know the developer is doing a lot of it at a reduced cost for labor and stuff but they can sit in their own chairs and watch the games out there. Anderson: I had a question on that asphalt Tammy. Bird: What about the sweeper attachments? Anderson: I mean, they're in the old water yard down here right? There are no plans in the next five years to move them anywhere else? They're happy there? They've got plenty of room? I mean I don't want to money asphalting and then have him come in next year, oh we've got to go to a bigger shop. De Weerd: No. I haven't -- I think they belong there until we have a City Hall and even at that point, -- Bird: You'll still need the shop. De Weerd: -- we'll need the shop. Bird: All you will move is your administration into City Hall. De Weerd: I mean, I haven't heard anything unless he has been talking with the Mayor about it. Anderson: Will this asphalt everything there? Is there still going to be some gravel? I know a lot of times, on like parks office they want some gravel so if they have to bring in some trees form a nursery or something that they're going to plant in the next week, they can set them on gravel instead of asphalt where it just bakes the trees and the plants and that kind of stuff. I don't know if they -- De Weerd: I don't know, I can't answer if it's total asphalt or not. It seems to me I remember he did want to ask for all of it because he was afraid he would get turned if he's trying to do half of it. In the sheet that he turned in it just says asphalt a portion of the shop yard so I don't know. Anderson: That might just be something that you talk to him about in your meetings and recommend that he maybe leave a little bit of area for storing plants or something. ( Meridian City Council Special Buuget Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 46 of 133 De Weerd: It sounds like it is. It's a partial job. Bird: How many square feet? What is (inaudible)? De Weerd: Did he give you any detail on it? Bird: How many square feet or anything? (Inaudible discussion from staff members) De Weerd: Can we just highlight it and you know get a little bit more detail to see if Elroy has any more information on it? (Inaudible discussion from staff members) De Weerd: He's so efficient but maybe you know we can have that information after lunch. Okay. Thanks Janice. Corrie: What about that sweeper attachment? Bird: Yes, what about that sweeper attachment? De Weerd: I think we're over attached in parks. We just bought a whole bunch of attachments to a big piece of equipment. I think he's got a real nice set up over there. I don't know too much about (inaudible). Bird: We're one of the top construction companies in the world. De Weerd: I wouldn't support it but if you guys want to. Bird: No. (Inaudible discussion from staff members) De Weerd: So, I guess the 10,851 is out. The 35,000 is out. The 1500 is out and the 3500 is out. He as asking for one computer I think. He gave us a handout didn't he? Bird: I don't know. De Weerd: Both of them? (Inaudible discussion from staff members) Bird: Yes, he had two. Meridian City Council Special Buul,jet Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 47 of 133 De Weerd: I don't know about the computer. (Inaudible discussion from staff members) De Weerd: And what? (Inaudible discussion from staff members) Anderson: And one computer and a mower. Bird: He took them out. De Weerd: He took out one computer and he took out the vehicle. He wanted the mower and the computer. I think we're giving him the big mower. Bird: I don't think we need to give him another mower. De Weerd: Maybe John Shawcroft will give him his mower. (Inaudible discussion from staff members) De Weerd: Oh. Corrie: They're not very forgiving back there. Bird: Well, I'll tell you one thing before we get to that and we go through that. The parks department buys the equipment to maintain all our yards. That includes Public Works. I don't care whether -- De Weerd: Well, then you give them another area to maintain Keith. Bird: I've given them another area to maintain before we'll give them a $58,000.00 mower. De Weerd: Well, they can't (inaudible). (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Bird: That's what the Parks Department does. Go see what Boise does and Nampa does. De Weerd: Okay. Then give them that extra person then. Bird: What, seasonal ground maintenance? (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Meridian City Council Special BUdget Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 48 of 133 Anderson: I think we may have that formula they were still based on (inaudible). Part of that was park impact fees. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Bird: Have you got that totaled yet? (Inaudible discussion from staff members Bird: Have you got the total? (Inaudible discussion from staff members) Anderson: No. Bird: No leave it out. De Weerd: Only if Keith makes parks take care of the wastewater treatment plant. Bird: Then we can- De Weerd: Then he should get it. Bird: Then they can pay for it. De Weerd: Then Wastewater can pay for it? Bird: Pay for their maintenance guy. Corrie: It's easier to do that (inaudible). (Inaudible discussion from staff members) Anderson: Enterprise fund has more money. We'll get them to buy the big mower, Bird: No, we get them to pay for the seasonal person and have them take care of it. Why do we have -- every department has their own maintenance people, lawn maintenance. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Bird: You want another jog to do on your nights off? ( Meridian City Council Special Buage! Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 49 of 133 Berg: No I didn't. Corrie: (I naudible). Bird: Okay, so his enhancement without the carry over and the impact fees is 193983? (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) De Weerd: So, we're at 120, 58,000 5983 and 10,000. Then the other expenditures are out of the park impact fees. At 300,000 and 100,000. Is everyone okay with that? Bird: I think it's great. Anderson: On the chart up here, what is the 193,000 represent? Bird: All the enhancements? Anderson: That's the ones that are left in the column there? (Inaudible discussion from staff members) Anderson: Those are the ones that would come out of the - Bird: Enhancements. Anderson: -- 1.1? (Inaudible discussion from staff members) Corrie: So, we're 158,000 plus over right now. Anderson: Did you adjust that to 1.1 from the 1.5 original? (Inaudible discussion from staff members) Anderson: So, it needs to be adjusted down? (Inaudible discussion from staff members) Anderson: So you need to take the park impact fees out of that 1.5 because those aren't available. Okay. Now that looks more like it. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Meridian City Council Special Buoget Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 50 of 133 Bird: Okay. De Weerd: 558,000? Bird: That's all we're under. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) De Weerd: Should we go through the police or go through the administration fi rst? Anderson: Let's eat lunch before we do anything else. De Weerd: Okay. (Inaudible discussion from staff members) Anderson: Can we just pause while we eat? Bird: Yes. Anderson: Is that okay? Bird: Are you going to allow us to do that? RECONVENE AT 12:36 P.M. (Inaudible discussion from staff members) Bird: That has what? (Inaudible discussion from staff members) Bird: How many square feet? (Inaudible discussion from staff members) Anderson: You said they asphalted the front (inaudible) and they need to replace it. De Weerd: No. Bird: No. That's been there since we bought it. De Weerd: They asked for 20,000 last year to do all of it. Meridian City Council Special Buuget Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 51 of 133 Bird: We left it in there. De Weerd: Thanks Janice. Bird: Thank you. Okay, start with the police. Number one item, is the new police station. Anderson: A new police station? Bird: That's the equipment and stuff. What is the 27,255 in operating? Is that the phone system and computer wiring and stuff? (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) De Weerd: What is the what? Bird: 27,000. (Inaudible discussion from staff members) Kilchenmann: Extra space, electricity, gas, moving expense and transfer and set up (inaudible). The increase of the janitorial is 16,000. The electricity is 3,500, gas 2,000, moving expense 4,000, and the (inaudible) transfer 1,600. Bird: Let me ask you a question. On that janitorial is the 16 based on a 12 month? Kilchenmann: Yes. Bird: They won't probably be in it over two months in the next fiscal year because if we get in by September 1 st we'll be pretty fortunate. Kilchenmann: And this is in addition to what they currently have, that they currently pay for janitorial. Bird: But what I'm saying is that they're adding for a year and they're actually going to have to be spending only for two months additional. If you take that if I'm calculating right, that's about 1,300 a month more. Kilchenmann: So they would only need 2,600? Bird: So they would only need 2,600 there. Is that right somebody with a computer. Corrie: Well yes if it's only 1,300 (inaudible). ( Meridian City Council Special B'uuget Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 52 of 133 Bird: That's 16, The moving I think is legitimate at four. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) De Weerd: So it's about 2,700 for two months of janitorial. Bird: Yes 2,600. De Weerd: Well 26 and 92.5. Bird: 1,300 divided by 12 isn't' that 1,300? 16,000 divided by 12. De Weerd: 1,600 times 12. Bird: 16,000. De Weerd: Is (inaudible). Bird: No, 1,300 times 12. De Weerd: 1,300 times 12 if 1,560. Bird: So you're right, 2,700. 4,000- De Weerd: Now electricity and gas. Bird: Electricity and gas (inaudible). De Weerd: They're figuring- Anderson: -- you can call Idaho Power and Intermountain Gas. We did that with new building (inaudible) and gave them the square footage and then did a formula that they went through and it can tell you pretty close what to budget for. Bird: And they budgeted so much but see you're only using a sixth of what they're budgeting. You're only going to be in two months out of the fiscal year I believe. I believe if we're in there by September 1, 2002 we'll be very fortunate. You're just going to start breaking ground (Inaudible) in the middle of August. De Weerd: So you're only there one month if you move in - Bird: -- that's right Tammy you're right so it would only be 13. That's right you only have one month. Anderson: Do we know the bill time yet is it six months? ( Meridian City Council Special Buaget Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 53 of 133 Bird: No it's the Kreizenbeck (inaudible) about a year. So, if they start in August given a good year I mean why push it? Why not get a quality job with (inaudible) pushing it? Anderson: I agree but I'm just trying to give us two or three months flexibility either direction. Bird: It might not go ahead. Kilchenmann: The police actually did this only for four months. These represent four months. Bird: Now wait a minute we're going to pay 4,000 more a month? What are they paying now a month for janitorial? 1,000 a month and now we're going to be paying 5,000 and we gained less than 20,000 square feet? De Weerd: 4,000 a month. Bird: No, if they figured 16,000 for four months that's 4,000 a month. They're paying 1 ,000 now so that's 5,000 dollars that they plan on paying a month for janitorial. They've got 1100 square feet right now and they're moving into a 30,000 square foot. We are going to pay four times more when we're not getting over 20,000 more square feet? That doesn't make sense. Kilchenmann: He did tell us that the contract he had now is going to go up, increase substantially. Bird: I thought the police was under the same contract that everybody else was. When did that come about? When did we change that? Corrie: That was quite awhile back because of the security that we had (inaudible) couldn't (inaudible). They were under a different and so is Public Work's is that correct? Kilchenmann: Public Work's is part of their building. Bird: What? Corrie: It's part of their building now but they weren't. Bird: Stacy that's another case to get back in and get everybody under the same maintenance contractor or something where you have a little pull or - somebody can give you a lot better deal if they're doing 50,000 square feet than if they're doing 10,000 square feet. Kilchenmann: I think Will tried to do that didn't you Will? Meridian City Council Special Buaget Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 54 of 133 Berg: We have them under one. Bird: I thought we - when I first came on Council I thought we did. Berg: We originally did and then the police switched over to their previous one. De Weerd: Because? Corrie: The others weren't doing the job for one reason and the other one they couldn't' - two of them couldn't' past security in the Police Department. De Weerd: They weren't doing the job but they're doing it over here? Corrie: Well not necessarily. Berg: Everybody else is under this janitorial service. When the Public Work's and Building Department moved that was in their agreement. Bird: That was in part of their Lease Agreement - Berg: -- that portion was deducted. Then the Water Department added on and added more offices so there is a little (inaudible). Bird: But they're all under the same group. Berg: The two ladies yes. De Weerd: What do we pay a month? Why does it turn out that we pay under our contract per square foot and what does the police pay for square foot? Bird: How much do we pay Will? Berg: I'm not sure because see the other thing that it's based on is how many times you clean. City Hall's cleaned every day, Water Departments cleaned twice a week, Wastewater twice a week, Park's is twice? Cunningham: Two or three times I don't know. Bird: That's the- Berg: See it varies. Bird: I think we need to get it back under one contract when they're all done regardless of who it is. Meridian City Council Special Budget Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 55 of 133 Kilchenmann: Should we put for now just put 4,000 in there and that would give them an extra thousand a month for those four months? That would double it. Anderson: (Inaudible) cleaned once a week and about 200 a month. De Weerd: 200 a month? Bird: And how much square foot are you responsible for? Anderson: (Inaudible) square foot. Corrie: That's less than what I pay for the house. Bird: Yes but a house is a lot harder to clean. Corrie: Not mine because I'm not there neither is my wife. Bird: Yes but you've got more knacks and cronies and more dusting down. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Bird: Yes I'm sure you Mayor wouldn't - you and Jerry wouldn't accept commercial (inaudible). De Weerd: Well and you're kind of partial to your cleaning. Corrie: To what? De Weerd: (Inaudible) cleaning. Corrie: Partial to my cleaning. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) De Weerd: Eyelets is a fixed cost. Bird: Let's just take the 396478, I can't- De Weerd: Now how about that 218? Bird: Which 218? De Weerd: The 218853. Bird: where are you looking at I'm looking at the overall. Do you want to go back to the Police - what page (inaudible)? Meridian City Council Special BUdget Workshop July 18,2001 Page 56 of 133 De Weerd: I'm on Department request Number 3. I prioritized it just for you. I just went to their request Number (inaudible). That was that amount that we thought was coming out this year wasn't it? Bird: 218? De Weerd: Yes. Corrie: Where are you seeing this. Bird: New building cost associated with cost variance. That doesn't go in there at all does it? De Weerd: It's that - can you explain that one? Kilchenmann: That is the amount that the building will go over to the 3,5 million. If you took the amount that you set aside and did the bond for this is the amount that would be in addition to that. you wouldn't have to budget. De Weerd: I thought they told us they were within budget. I guess - Bird: -- they don't have an idea. De Weerd: -- they are within budget if they budgeted it this year. Cunningham: Yes that's right. Bird: No, they don't know until the bids come in July 26th. I would question that 218. Anderson: I asked him about that yesterday if you remember and he said that Kreizenbeck was now telling them that that was considerably less. It was down to 28,000 and he said but we don't know where they're getting that number. They were using the number of 3,777,000 and that's where they were coming up with that variance or the difference between the 3.5 million that we had budgeted and - 3.7. De Weerd: Where did they get the idea to have 3.7? Anderson: Because of what that difference showed from Kreizenbeck. On the second page, right here. This one right here. This projection cost sheet. Now Kreizenbeck has revised this down to the total variance of 21,000 now. If the variance is 21,000 now instead of 218 then there's a big chunk of savings there. ( Meridian City Council Special Budget Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 57 of 133 Bird: I think we ought to knock that enhancement down to about a - at least take 200,000 out of that for ri~ht now. The 26th after the bids are in - well not even - it will probably be the 1s of August. You'll have a good idea of what the cost is going to be. Kilchenmann: They did say they have a contingency plan. He didn't approve that but there (inaudible) that they can leave unfinished. Bird: That they can what? Kilchenmann: Leave unfinished. Bird: I think there's quite a few rooms they could leave unfinished, I mean unfurnished. Not unfinished. Kilchenmann: Yes. Bird: This bid is core and shell finished. Kilchenmann: Yes. Bird: They need the telephone system. KHchenmann: Yes. Bird: I think that maybe they're going to have to use some of the furniture and computers that they think are outdated. They're going to have to move them I think. That's my personal opinion. I don't believe that we're going to have to do that. What do you want to knock that first one down to? De Weerd: Well, so you have 27255 in operating costs request. So you want to- Bird: Tammy we know that isn't right. De Weerd: I know but we need to adjust that, right? *** End of Side Eleven *** Bird: Chief knocked it down to 196 (inaudible). (inaudible discussion from staff) Bird: Mayor, you've worked on this budget so jump in here and if you see something that is a real heartache. I know I talked with Bill last night. I know what his number one priority is excluding the police station. Meridian City Council Special Buoge! Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 58 of 133 De Weerd: What? Bird: He needs vehicles. Corrie: I think probably 196478 would probably be a pretty close figure. Until we actually know what they're doing, we won't know. I think if you put that in there you're going to be (inaudible). De Weerd: So, if you put 1965 for capitol and 12,000 for operating? Bird: No, no that's total. Corrie: That's total, 1965. Bird: 1965 is total period in that column. De Weerd: But you need to add to operating somewhere. Bird: Put ten in for operating and 185 for one-time expenditures. De Weerd: 1865? Corrie: Why don't you just round it off to 200,000? Bird: What? Corrie: Round it off to 200,00. Bird: 200,000 that's fine. (inaudible discussion amongst Council) Anderson: 10,000 in operating and 190 in one time? Bird: Yes one time. Okay, the two new civilian personnel, that was their number two priority. Mayor can you enlighten us on that? Corrie: I have a list of (inaudible). De Weerd: I think they need to evidence lab. Bird: It was - Corrie: I think your two civilian personnel is going to open up some police officers for doing that job for a heck of a lot less than (inaudible). Meridian City Council Special Budget Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 59 of 133 Bird: Okay. Anderson: Well, but it was, a detective is who he said is doing the evidence now about half time. He said it's going to clear up a detective and not a patrol officer. Bird: No, but they need to, as I understand --. De Weerd: They need the detective. What was the other position for? Oh, community policing post. Bird: Community policing, which is basically relieving a detective too because right now we've got an SRO office, isn't that right Mayor that does it? Corrie: Yes. Bird: We will be --. So that would free an SRO. Corrie: See, you're paying 54,000 but you have two officers you're probably paying 120 for what they're doing. Bird: Yes. Corrie: That actually will free up one full time police officer. Bird: So, you feel this is a --? Corrie: Yes and I think they've got it at a high place there. They've even got it higher than four new officers. Bird: Well, yes. Anderson: But are these people fully benefited employees? Bird: They're part time so they would not be. (inaudible discussion amongst Council) Bird: Stacy, at 19 and a half part time how much benefits do we have to pay if any? (inaudible discussion from staff) Bird: Half hours a week. Janice? (inaudible discussion from staff) Meridian City Council Special BUuget Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 60 of 133 Bird: Part time employee, under 20 hours a week, how much in benefits do we have to pay? (inaudible discussion from staff) Bird: FICA is all? Okay. Anderson: But if they work them more than how many hours than they --. (inaudible discussion from staff) Bird: But, the thing is they're going to work --. Ron has got a very good point there that I can see, especially the guy in the evidence room, except they also explained to us Ron that they've got a record gal in there that does a lot of that work. Let me ask you a question. Does this under 20 hours have to be a 40-hour week, or can it be in a month? J. Smith: 40 hour week. But they do have (inaudible). Bird: So, if we work somebody 24 hours one week and then only worked him 15 hours the next week, would that four hours have to pay benefits? J. Smith: They look at, they look at each month, but it is per week. So, if they see that one month when you've got one in there or even if you have two weeks in there over the 19 and a half, they're going to watch that. They look at it for five months. If you drop back down, you're okay. Bird: Mayor do you think this person is going to be able to take care of that evidence in 19 and a half with the help of that record clerk? Corrie: (inaudible). Bird: How about the community policing officer? Corrie: At this point, yes. (inaudible discussion amongst Council) De Weerd: There's no reason --. Anderson: I'm just concerned because I have a part time person like that that's 19 hours. If the secretary takes off and I have her fill in for a day. Then if I do that for five pay periods in a row, then I've got a problem. Then she becomes a benefit. You've got to be real careful about that if they're going to use these part time people when somebody else takes off. I know the police department has a lot of overtime. Meridian City Council Special BUl.lget Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 61 of 133 De Weerd: But, they do that, in code enforcement. So, they're already --. (inaudible discussion from staff) Bird: And they do watch and make sure that they don't go over? J. Smith: Yes. Bird: Because I've got a real concern like Ron does. J. Smith: In the past (inaudible). Bird: Don't get me wrong, I have no --. If they have to work in 22 hours I have no problem with it but we've got to consider the benefits. In the City of Meridian our benefits is a pretty good sized chunk of costs. De Weerd: Yes. Corrie: They keep a pretty good watch. Like you said they have a five-month work window there as well. Bird: Okay. Corrie: (inaudible) they'd let me know and we'd let the department (inaudible) let them know that we've got to cut back (inaudible). Bird: Okay. I just don't want to under-enhance it and I don't want to get ourselves in trouble. Corrie: I think that they can --. If they start the two civilian personnel then they can watch it. Like I say in our department head meetings they can keep pretty close tab on it. They say look be careful you're coming across and they back him off. Bird: Okay. Corrie: I think you're (inaudible) is probably well done. De Weerd: Yes. Bird: Okay. Kilchenmann: Remember that bottom line number, the 361,000. All the replacements are still in for all the departments. That would include all the police vehicles and all the other things --. Meridian City Council Special BlJuget Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 62 of 133 De Weerd: Oh, you've included the replacements in that? Kilchenmann: Right we haven't gone through those yet. De Weerd: We haven't included any of them. Bird: No. Kilchenmann: Do you want to go back to the --? Bird: Explain that again to us Stacy. I couldn't hardly hear you. Kilchenmann: The replacements are still in there. As you're going through and trying to balance that bottom line number, you stifl have all the replacements in there. So, all the police vehicles are still in there. Corrie: How much is that replacement? De Weerd: 202. Kilchenmann: For the police it's 200,000, Corrie: 200,000? Anderson: 201,000. Kilchenmann: 201. Bird: Now with the civilian personnel, that is just strictly --. There is no vehicle in that because on the two new (inaudible) then also down there we've got the four new officers plus vehicles, De Weerd: That's additional. Plus one vehicle, not plus vehicles. It's just one. Bird: Okay we leave the 54357 in? De Weerd: So, we're over 361 at this point? Kilchenmann: Yes. Anderson: And all the replacements were included in the original stuff? Kilchenmann: Yes. Anderson: Okay. Meridian City Council Special Buuget Workshop July 18. 2001 Page 63 of 133 De Weerd: That didn't include the truck fund or the park impact fees right? Bird: That's all been taken out. De Weerd: I know --. But we haven't spent $1.1 million yet. Bird: No, we haven't as long as you leave that on. Cunningham: Enhancement right now as they stand is 1.2, down there at the bottom right there, 1.228. The replacements is 223,000. Also subtracted out of that is four percent for a merit increases 54,400. De Weerd: Oh, I thought the recommendation was three percent. Kilchenmann: Yes, we just heard that base, so we just put the optimistic four percent in there. Anderson: So, you were hoping? De Weerd: You're definitely worth four percent but this budget is already difficult enough. Bird: I would second that but in the same token you've got to look at what our cost of living increase is this year. It wasn't, with the COLA and your merit increases is double what the cost of living if we go to the four percent. We have got, when we only get three percent in here total on our budget --. Don't get me wrong, I would like to give you ten percent but --. Kilchenmann: So we can move that --? Anderson: The thing that you've got to look at is it's not a three percent raise, it's a six percent raise. It's three percent COLA and three percent merit. If you're doing your job and get a satisfactory performance appraisal, it's a six percent raise. Bird: We know that. But I said we only get a three percent with our budget. Anderson: Right. (inaudible discussion amongst Council) Bird: So, anyway, that don't get to come out of the general fund Mayor. (inaudible discussion amongst Council) (- Meridian City Council Special BUl,Jl;!et Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 64 of 133 Kilchenmann: Okay, there you go, Bird: Okay, we've got that 54? Okay. The two new invested vehicles. Anderson: I think we could leave those but I think we ought to knock it down to 40,000 instead of 45. The 5,000 in operating costs, to me you're going to go our and buy two brand new vehicles, if you think you're going to spend 25000 on each of those the first year, just maintaining them, I don't think you would spend that much. Bird: I don't think you got a very good buy then if you did. I'm with you Ron. I'd knock it down to 40. Agree Mayor? Corrie: Where are we at now? Bird: On the two new vehicles. We know they need them. Anderson: For the investigators. Corrie: Oh, yes 40 is fine. They'll get by with it. Bird: Okay, now- Anderson: Lets let Reta catch up. Kilchenmann: (inaudible) Corrie: Reta, you need to print out the - Bird: the 45,000. Corrie: --two new investigative vehicles that's 40. Anderson: 40. Bird: And take out of the operating take the 5,000 out of it. (inaudible discussion from staff) Anderson: Just make it 40 and we're taking the 5,000 out of the operating. Cunningham: So, you're giving them the vehicles? Anderson: Yes. Cunningham: But not any extra maintenance (inaudible). Meridian City Council Special BlJuget Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 65 of 133 De Weerd: No that should already be in there. Anderson: I think they can cover the fuel in their normal operating. That also included tires and maintenance. That's $25,00.00 per vehicle. Their brand new vehicles, they shouldn't need $2500.00. What are they spending on fuel a year on a vehicle? Cunningham: Well they actually figure, it depends on whether it's patrol (inaudible). Corrie: Is that 5,000, is that radios (inaudible)? (inaudible discussion amongst Council) Bird: It wasn't for them was it? De Weerd: Yes. Bird: No it was for --. Kilchenmann: They're putting - Bird: It's replacing. (inaudible discussion amongst Council) Kilchenmann: 1200 a vehicle per year. De Weerd: No it's not a replacement. These are two additional ones. Anderson: A year? Kilchenmann: Yes. Corrie: Yes but that's for the investigation. Anderson: Are these additional or replacements? Kilchenmann: Additional. Anderson: Did we hire two additional people? What are they driving now? Cunningham: No, these are for their detectives. They said they were short two vehicles. Meridian City Council Special BuugetWorkshop July 18,2001 Page 66 of 133 Anderson: They must be driving something now. De Weerd: This is for their elementary school SRO and their PAL person, Bird: Wait a minute. PAL? How much do they --? De Weerd: They don't (inaudible). Bird: The only time I've ever seen other than meetings Tammy you can go down to the soccer field and stuff, those officers take a police car out there and get paid to go out. Corrie: Yes, two investigative vehicles will give them --. What they are using now, if I understand this correctly, they're using a patrol car for their SROs, investigation. So, they will have two new vehicles for the investigators or detectives and they will be --. Are they using those old blue ones now? Kilchenmann: If you go to the section right before the pink sheet, -- Corrie: Yes? Kilchenmann: -- there's a vehicle list and a staff list. Bird: Okay. De Weerd: So, how do we --? Oh there we go, patrol. Bird: Here's the investigative. De Weerd: That's one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven (inaudible). Cunningham: Keith the criminal drug and resource officers are investigative officers. Also special services are considered investigation. De Weerd: So, you include, when you count you include the crime prevention and then all of the investigative right? So, they have 12 vehicles and how many people? Anderson: In which division are you talking about? Bird: Investigative. Cunningham: 14. De Weerd: They have 14 investigative positions? And 12 vehicles? ( Meridian City Council Special Buuget Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 67 of 133 (inaudible discussion from staff) De Weerd: Do they all need their own vehicles? Cunningham: We asked that. That's what they said. Corrie: They all do different things. De Weerd: But do they all work at the same time? Bird: No. Corrie: Most of your detectives are during the day. They can do some at night but unless it's a stake out and other than that. It looks to be like they're going to try to replace that Chrysler. No, it doesn't show it. It was donated. De Weerd: They want to replace number eight, 22 and 29. Cunningham: These two enhancements here are in addition. Bird: I was going to say, these replacements are in a different --. This is not part of this deal right here. These additions, elementary resource officer, 20, a Pal, a Canine and a Patrol. That's in the enhancements. But I mean, eight has got two of them, or canine's got one and eight's got one, Mayor, I really question a new car for PAL. Corrie: No, it's not for, just for PAL, I guess. I can't answer for them. De Weerd: That's all they had on- Bird: That's all they have on the report. De Weerd: That's where I got that. Anderson: Vehicle for the (inaudible) and vehicle for the ESRO. Bird: The elementary resource officer and a PAL officer. De Weerd: I mean, I'm supportive of PAL but- Corrie: Matt Miller is the one that does all that. Kilchenmann: She's going to call and find out for sure. Corrie: He's a detective too. Okay. ( Meridian City Council Special Btuget Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 68 of 133 Kilchenmann: She's going to call. Bird: I'm supportive of PAL but not the (inaudible) for a vehicle. De Weerd: I know. Bird: You've been involved with the PAL. (inaudible discussion amongst Council) Bird: Did we have an officer assigned to us that was there at all the activities and all the games and everything? De Weerd: No. Corrie: They're not assigned to a game and stuff like that. De Weerd: I see them when they come for pictures. I have seen them down at the office. Ray Chackow and Matt Miller every time I've been at the PAL office (inaudible ). Anderson: While she's calling and getting that clarified can we jump down there Bird: Yes. Anderson: -- to that bottom number, the four new officers? That one they put as their eighth priority. It wasn't a very high priority for them and they felt like their main goal was getting the station done. I would think if we're going to hire these other two civilian people to help free up some additional time that we could cut the four officers this year. Bird: Okay, Ron I think Chief would agree with that but again it goes back to the fact that he felt he needed a new patrol vehicle. Corrie: How about a canine vehicle? Bird: That comes with the canine. He's not for cutting the canine. Anderson: He's saying if you hire four new officers he needs a vehicle. But if you go back to the replacements, he's got new vehicles in there already. Bird: Yes but those are not in the budget any place. Kilchenmann: Yes they are. Meridian City Council Special BUul,jet Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 69 of 133 Anderson: Yes they are. That's what they were telling us. That's already included in the base budget number that we have for them. (inaudible discussion from staff) Anderson: The replacement, replacements are included in the base number. So, you're already buying one, two, three, four, five, six cars. You're already buying them six cars right now. Bird: Well then that's --. I'm not- De Weerd: I think we need to zero out replacement and talk about that. Bird: Yes. De Weerd: When we get to it. Bird: I think so too. That's 180,000 I think. But as I understood talking to Chief last night that they needed three patrol cars and of course the canine if we allow them the canine officer. Then the two investigative. That's six. Anderson: And right here Keith in that base, they have the three - Bird: I see. Anderson: -- patrol cars. Then they have- Bird: Then we can take them out of base and put them in the enhancements. Anderson: Then they have three investigator cars. De Weerd: I think it's more important we have patrol cars then investigative cars. (inaudible discussion from staff) Kilchenmann: Do you want to do the cars first? Anderson: I do too. Lets just talk about that bottom line item. Bird: that's right. Anderson: Four new officers. De Weerd: Yes. ( Meridian City Council Special Buuget Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 70 of 133 Anderson: That vehicle there is for hiring four new officers. De Weerd: For the new officers. Bird: I'm notfor that. Anderson: (inaudible) cut that line item? De Weerd: Yes. Bird: Cut that line item completely. Anderson: Okay. That's zero. Bird: Zero item eight. Lets go through the thing before we get to the cars. The animal shelter finish work. Anderson: I think it's needed to save the building. Bird: I think it's necessary. I would leave that in. Anderson: The canine, yes. Bird: I think it's necessary. Canine too. Anderson: Digital camera, he said he could buy one for less. Maybe give them - Bird: 2500? Anderson: 5,000 or 4,000. Bird: 2500 to start with? Anderson: I was thinking- Bird: You guys are experts on digital cameras. Can you get a pretty nice one for 2500? Anderson: Well the camera was 53. I don't know. I think you could probably buy --. Then there was some other stuff for the other couple thousand. (inaudible discussion from staff) Bird: What? Cunningham: Public Works paid 700 two years ago. ( Meridian City Council Special BUu\Jet Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 71 of 133 Bird: Is it a nice --? Corrie: You can buy the same pixel, 3.1 pixel for about $900.00. Bird: Mayor what was his --? Have you discussed it with him, this digital thing? What is it --? Anderson: Most of your digital cameras are not high pixel. So, the resolution on them is not very good. My understanding is they want to use this for crime scene Bird: That's right. Anderson: -- photography, Well, then you need the higher pixel. That's going to cost you more money. So, the digital camera that I bought and like Reta's talking about for 5 $700.00 doesn't give you that high of a resolution. But I still think you can buy a pretty good one for, instead of 53, maybe around 3,000. Bird: What do you wantto give him, 4,000? 3,000? 3500? Anderson: Okay. Let's cut that to $4,000.00 Bird: 4,000 on the 72. Corrie: Is that digital camera and camcorder kind of --? Is it a camcorder with additional facilities? Kilchenmann: They have two- Anderson: There was two. One is a camcorder and one- Bird: Is it all the same thing? Anderson: No, there's two different cameras they're buying. Bird: Okay now can you get those two, pretty good ones for 4,000 Ron? Anderson: I don't know. Bird: Okay. Let's put it down there and see what they - Corrie: (inaudible) Bird: Okay. Meridian City Council Special Buoget Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 72 of 133 Anderson: The software for archiving. Bird: The software archives. I've got a question. That will free up some of those officers overtime as I think Captain Bowman explained to us. De Weerd: Why? Bird: Because they won't be having to fill out a bunch of paperwork when they come off shift. De Weerd: No. This is archiving records. Bird: This is that LaserFiche. De Weerd: But that didn't have anything to do with that other thing. (inaudible discussion from staff) De Weerd: Yes, it's more of a space thing. You're confused. Bird: I am confused I guess because I understood this was the type that - Berg: You'd save time retrieving documents. Bird: Retrieving documents. I understood it saved time of reporting, of turning in reports. You didn't have a bunch of paperwork because you put it in this computer and it had the report. Corrie: They wouldn't have to come over here to look through files. Bird: What? Corrie: They wouldn't have to go through files down here in the basement for stuff. Anderson: I don't see it as reports. It's archiving old records. De Weerd: Yes. It's just a record thing. Anderson: So that they don't have to have volumes and volumes. It will all be on digital of file cabinets and boxes. De Weerd: Yes. This just talks about saving space. Bird: Now wait a minute, that 18912 is the LaserFiche. ( Meridian City Council Special Buage! Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 73 of 133 Anderson: Which is that record archiving. It's not for doing the reports. It's for archiving records. Bird: No, that you put it in. I know it don't do the reports Ron. Kilchenmann: One other advantage of it was that they could email around the country to other departments. It was for storage and for easy retrieval and so that if they got requests from other law enforcement they could easily em ail them. It's seven in their packet. Bird: Yes. De Weerd: Yes. I don't see- Bird: Do you want to cut that? Corrie: If you want to go back up to enhancements, the clerk file coordinator, you're cutting out 30,000 right there. Is that what you had asked for, the 30,000 enhancement for the other person? Is that that 30,OOO? Kilchenmann: Yes. Corrie: Was it? So, if you cut that one out which you said you were going to, Then that brings you probably about 3,000 over. Kilchenmann: The cars (inaudible) Corrie: If you keep the - De Weerd: And the cars are still in there right? Corrie: Yes. Bird: We haven't got to the vehicles yet. De Weerd: Okay. But we haven't gotten to the canine officer yet? Bird: Yes, we said canine stays. (inaudible discussion amongst Council) De Weerd: Okay. Corrie: Everything you've got there showing is what you've got. De Weerd: Okay_ ( Meridian City Council Special BUQget Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 74 of 133 Bird: The only thing we're questioning right now is the 18912. Corrie: If you leave that alone, you're 3,000 over. Kilchenmann: The car that you were asking about that is just for PAL. Janice just verified it. Bird: Is what? Corrie: Is just for PAL? De Weerd: For PAL. J, Smith: Because if he's on patrol, he goes and (inaudible). Corrie: Say that again, I didn't hear you. Bird: 40,000 for one car for PAL? (inaudible discussion from staff) De Weerd: No 20,000. So, he can't take his patrol car over there so he would need a second car to go over there. Corrie: Is that what they are saying now? I don't want to cut that out if that's not what they're saying. So, they want just one car just for going to PAL (inaudible)? J. Smith: If he's on patrol he can't get into a patrol car. De Weerd: Why can't he just go to PAL in his patrol car? f don't understand it. Bird: We've got a new chief (inaudible). Cunningham: He's not in the patrol division, he's in the investigative division. Corrie: And he needs a car? Cunningham: They like to keep the cars separate. Anderson: I think we could probably cut that to one car. Bird: I'm with you Ron. De Weerd: Well, then PAL can buy him a car. ( Meridian City Council Special BUdget Workshop July 18. 2001 Page 75 of 133 Anderson: 20,000. Bird: Cut that to 20. One car for investigative. Cunningham: Can we give them some operations? Anderson: Yes, give them- (inaudible discussion amongst Council) De Weerd: 2500. Anderson: 25, so make it 4250. Bird: No 2250. Anderson: Or 22. De Weerd: Yes. (inaudible) Corrie: Now you're staring to make - (inaudible discussion amongst Council) Bird: Now on the archiving software, do we want to leave it? Anderson: Yes. Bird: Lets leave it for now and see how many cars we finalize in. De Weerd: That's fine. Cunningham: Okay, you want to go to the replacements? Bird: Now let's go to vehicles period. Cunningham: Here is their replacement. Anderson: I think the three patrol cars ought to stay. De Weerd: Yes. Bird: I would agree with you. That's 120. We give them one car in the enhancement for investigative. ( Meridian City Council Special BUdget Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 76 of 133 Anderson: Then these are what they want to replace either because of high mileage or whatever. Corrie: One is that Chrysler that was donated. De Weerd: Yes. Let's replace one. Bird: Lets replace --. Well, we're actually giving them five cars, six cars counting the canine. Anderson: One, two three, -- Bird: See, you call the canine a patrol car too. De Weerd: I know. Corrie: Yes, but that's only for- De Weerd: But it's only - Bird: I know that but it's still another car out on the streets. Anderson: It is. So, you've got one, two, three, four, one enhancement (inaudible ). Corrie: But you're not going to use that car other than for canine. Bird: Yes but it's another car on the patrol. Anderson: Six new vehicles if you cut two of these investigator cars. Corrie: Where's that cars (inaudible). Bird: I think that's fair. De Weerd: I think that's fair. (inaudible discussion amongst Council) Corrie: You said they were trying to replace two. De Weerd: Oh. Corrie: Because there's one that's (inaudible). De Weerd: They're replacing the 92 Chrysler, the 74 Capri, and a 94 Caprice. (" Meridian City Council Special B~dget Workshop Jury 18, 2001 Page 77 of 133 Bird: We're giving them six cars. Three patrols, a canine, and two investigative total. (inaudible discussion amongst Council) Bird: So, that figure there would go down- (inaudible discussion amongst Council) Bird: -- to 140,000. Cunningham: So, go ahead and take off two of the investigative cars? Bird: Yes two of the investigative, the 15,000 and the computers, I guess. I don't know. Wait a minute take that off. Leave the computers on for now. Is that right in the cars on the replacements? Corrie: What's that? Bird: Three patrols, one investigative? De Weerd: On replacement yes. Bird: Because we've given one canine and one investigative in the enhancement. De Weerd: Yes. Bird: Is that right? De Weerd: Yes. Anderson: I feel that's fair. Bird: I do too. De Weerd: Now, what's the 15,000 for a computer server? Bird: Do you know what that is? Anderson: That's that intranet that they were talking about. That's what Stacy was talking about that we ought to look at City wide - De Weerd: Yes, lets do City wide and not departments. Meridian City Council Speciar Budget Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 78 of 133 Anderson: -- systems because all that will do is that server will link their station but- De Weerd: But not with anybody else. Anderson: But it doesn't link them with the other City departments. Bird: Well, I thought we were working with getting this within the whole City. Janice didn't we talk about that last year? Of looking into this internet thing? Well, Mayor you were doing it within the whole City. An internet service where these guys were - Corrie: Or internet but they're not - Cunningham: You still have to have a server. Corrie: Server. Cunningham: This one is replacing their (inaudible). They are planning to replace that server. They purchased it back in 94. Kilchenmann: So, they probably need to replace it. Bird: They need to replace this Stacy? Okay. Anderson: But the Spellman is a software. This is a server. This is a computer server. Bird: Yes. Kilchenmann: Yes. Anderson: Then you load that Spellman software on the server. Kilchenmann: Then everybody networks. Anderson: Yes. (inaudible discussion from staff) De Weerd: But not with anyone else. Bird: Within the City. Basically the City wouldn't need that anyway. We'd have no reason to do this. (inaudible discussion from staff) i Meridian City Council Special Budget Workshop Jury 18, 2001 Page 79 of 133 Bird: But Stacy said they need to get a new one. Anderson: I don't know. That number seems a little bit inflated. Our IS guy tells us they can buy servers for 10,000 a piece. This is 15,000. Bird: Do you want to knock it down to 10? Anderson: Might knock it to 12 or something. I don't know, maybe they - Bird: How much? Cunningham: We've never paid that high because- Bird: Will 12 do it? Cunningham: With inflation. Bird: 12? Anderson: Put it at 12. Bird: Okay, they're showing they need four new computers replaced. Cunningham: They still have a lot of the old RJMs. They've taken a lot of ours. (inaudible discussion amongst Council) Bird: Okay. Do you think that's legitimate, price legitimate? Corrie: I do, yes. Cunningham: Yes, very. Anderson: I'm paying 16 for a rebuilt computer, or a put together component computer. Bird: Are you kidding me? I just bought my complete thing with scanner and everything for 15. It's Dell's top of the line one, 19 inch screen. Anderson: It depends what (inaudible) you get in. Bird: Come by and look at it when I get it set up. Okay, we leave it in. Okay that should change your capitol total then when we go back to the - Cunningham: Yes. So, here you guys want to drop down to 160? Meridian City Council Special BUdget Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 80 of 133 Bird: So, we've got 20,000 over? Corrie: 60 now. Bird: 60,000? Kilchenmann: (inaudible) Anderson: Haven't done what? Kilchenmann: Admin. Bird: We haven't done that. Well that's no problem that's all gone. (inaudible discussion from staff) Bird: Council laptops. (inaudible discussion from staff) Bird: Are we paying 2500 for laptops? Kilchenmann: Laptops were more expensive. Bird: What? Anderson: They're more expensive. Corrie: If you want my opinion, we are at the bottom, I would say in case this works out we leave it alone. If it doesn't we (inaudible). Because if this other works out where you can just put it all in the computer and get away from this paperwork, you're going to save probably 2 to 3,000 in paper. Bird: I'm for that 100 percent. Corrie: If it doesn't, you're 10,000 to the good and you can move it somewhere else. Bird: Do you want to leave it in? Corrie: I would for you. Bird: Ron? ( Meridian City Council Special Bucget Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 81 of 133 Anderson: I don't because I think those next Councilmen ought to have to pack paper the way I did for four years. No, I think we ought to leave it in. I think it would be a good deal. Bird: I'm for it. (inaudible discussion amongst Council) Bird: Okay, what's this service center support? (inaudible discussion amongst Council) Bird: Senior center support. Anderson: If you weren't so old maybe your eyes could read that. Corrie: If he cleans his glasses- Bird: If I could glasses, I could see. Ask Tammy. I'm like the Mayor, I don't mind budgeting for it but there's going to be a lot of questions answered before I - Corrie: Well, there's still a lot of work- Bird: A lot of work left to be done before I would write it out them. Corrie: I'm going to turn it - work it through my office. If it gets to where it works out fine, then we can move it over. But that's already been taken care of. Bird: I believe, Mayor and I don't think they would have any problem. If we give that kind of money we ought to have an ex-officio sitting on their board. Corrie: On the --? Bird: Senior citizens. (inaudible discussion amongst Council) Bird: This clerk file coordinator. (inaudible discussion amongst Council) Anderson: We already took it out. Bird: No we didn't take the coordinator. Anderson: Did you have a different name for it? Meridian City Council Special BuagetWorkshop July 18,2001 Page 82 of 133 Berg: Department Specialist. Anderson: Department specialist. Bird: Department specialist. (inaudible discussion from staff) Bird: That's the deal we decided to try without and see how this new system works. Berg: So, what do I do in the mean time? Anderson: Hire your help. (inaudible discussion amongst Council) Berg: Right now if that's the case, I've got to get rid of one of my temps. Corrie: No you don't. If you get rid of your temp, you've only got one person left over there. Bird: How many full time employees do you have? You and Tara? Okay, you've got a receptionist to hire. You've got a deputy clerk to hire. Berg: Right now I have four bodies (inaudible). Anderson: So, you don't want either of those people to be full time, then yes they are temp and they can go away. (inaudible discussion from staff) Anderson: You just changed. You said you had four people in there. Now you're saying you have three temps. Berg: I said besides myself I have four people working in the office. Corrie: You have one that's doing the minutes, right? Then you have one that's on the phone and you've got one that was trying to clean your office up. So, you've actually got three temporaries in there right now. Berg: (inaudible) Corrie: What you need to do is get on the stick and hire your people. i Meridian City Council Special BUdget Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 83 of 133 Anderson: Because you only have four full time staff in your budget. Bird: We need to get the Deputy Clerk on board and you need to --. Is your receptionist full time now? She's just temp? Let's get that hired. Then Will lets see when are we going to bring that gal on that is going to do the stenographer? Corrie: It's a man I think. Is it a man? Kilchenmann: Yes and we're just waiting --. Bill is writing the contract. Corrie: Okay. Kilchenmann: As soon as he gets it done, the person is ready to - Bird: Then we'll take a look and I'm one that if it's successful, we won't need the other person. But if it is not successful, --. I hope that within the contract, which I want to read the contract that they have time limits that they either get them out or they don't perform. Kilchenmann: He does. Bird: Okay. Corrie: It's in there. Bird: So, actually Will, then he'll bring you a set of minutes that all you have to do is stamp and hand out. If they're wrong, we go back on him. You will have the tape. Kilchenmann: You know when we get a little further down the road and we get them done, maybe we could make our first transfer the capitol improvement plan with what we have left over. Bird: I beg your pardon Stacy? Kilchenmann: Maybe if when we get done and you're comfortable and you set the budget, maybe that left over part could be our first transfer to the capitol improvement fund? It's just something to consider. De Weerd: That was Cherie. Corrie: Cherie? De Weerd: McCandless. Glen's doing okay. He looks like he's getting pneumonia. His appendix ruptured on Saturday and didn't go into until Monday. (^ Meridian City Council Special Budget Workshop Jury 18, 2001 Page 84 of 133 (inaudible discussion amongst Council) Corrie: (inaudible) set in yet? De Weerd: So a lot of the poison has gone through --. No, he had a temperature last night that they were concerned about and he's starting to get signs of pneumonia. You know, she said - Corrie: (inaudible). De Weerd: He was throwing up blood last night. Corrie: (inaudible). They didn't say anything about (inaudible) ? De Weerd: She didn't say anything about it and I don't know anything about it to even ask. Bird: It's dangerous. De Weerd: She appreciates everyone's thinking of her. She'll keep us informed. Bird: Basically right now, over our general budget of what we had, the 1.1 and enhancement, we've got 60,000 left over. De Weerd: We got the more detail on the 10,000 for the asphalt shop yard. Bird: Yes. De Weerd: So, that's okay now. Bird: You can raise that now. De Weerd: That's pretty nifty thanks. Kilchenmann: So, now you're ready for the enterprise fund? Bird: Yes. Kilchenmann: Oh, boy. Anderson: We had a couple more things we wanted to talk about. Bird: What do you want to talk about? Anderson: Didn't we want to talk about the Council and the Mayor's salary? I Meridian City Council Speclar Buoget Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 85 of 133 Bird: Yes that's right. De Weerd: How did we do on the computers for the police station? Bird: We left them. De Weerd: Okay. (inaudible discussion amongst Council) Bird: Okay. Have you got that on computer, the operating for the Mayor and the Council? (inaudible discussion from staff) Anderson: You didn't change that four percent back to three percent yet, did you? Kilchenmann: Yes. Bird: Yes. Anderson: Did you? Cunningham: I just have your summary up there that shows total personnel for the Mayor 130,000 and then operating 20,000. Anderson: What about Council, we know how much we make. Bird: I don't see no changes in that. (inaudible discussion amongst Council) Bird: What's your feeling Council and - Corrie: Where's that sheet that shows what the Council (inaudible). Bird: Well, Nampa makes 7500. Boise makes 17556. Idaho Falls makes 10. Meridian makes six. Twin Falls makes nine. They don't have Coeur d'Alene in here, Pocatello in here. I don't what they do. Nampa has a mill levy of 89. They're over probably, their budget that they oversee is probably three times ours. They have, I would have to guess probably three times the employees we have to oversee. They have a street department that they have to oversee that we don't. Right now I can't justify Council taking a raise. Meridian City Council Special Buoget Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 86 of 133 Anderson: I guess my thoughts on it are that, I mean, I don't think anybody ever takes this position because they're interested in the money. I mean, I didn't even know that there was pay involved in it when I took the position. If I look around the rest of the state and I look at what the other cities are paying their Council People and when I look at the amount of work that's required to be a Councilman in Meridian. I mean, I can tell you from firsthand experience that Council People in Meridian are attending a lot more meetings and doing a lot more work than the ones in Nampa are just because of, I think the growth rate and all that that requires in the extra meetings and planning and stuff that goes on there. There are Council Members, you know like in Nampa, they don't even know where their revenues come from or anything else in the budgeting process. They just pretty much, everything is handled for them and handed to them on a platter. They don't do near the work that we do. If I look at the pay as some type of a compensation for the work that you do, then Meridian ought to get a little bit more. Whatever that amount is, it's going to be a token amount, even if we make 500 a month now. If we change that to 600 or 700, it's still a token amount compared to what you're going to be requested to do. I don't have any problem if we want to leave it the same. I don't have any problem if we want to add a little bit to it. Everybody in the City is getting more compensation, our employees, our Mayor, everything has gone up. The Council People just end up being the token people that we feel guilty because we don't have much funds that we always bypass any opportunity to get any extra compensation just because of the guilt. Bird: I don't know Ron. My feeling is I've served on a lot of --. I can speak for Tammy and you both have served on a lot of committees or organizations that's benefited the communities and the youth and everything else and spent probably more time than we spend in Council at freebie and I feel that this is the way you pay back a community that has been very, very good to me for 36 years, to me and my family. I know it's just a token. I don't think --. I would personally sooner take that $100.00 a month or $200.00 a month that we were to get a raise on and see it go into some program within the City. Do that, I mean, we keep comparing with Nampa al the time. They're 1500 a month more than us which amounts to about 100 and a quarter, or 1500 a year which amou nts to 100 and a quarter a month more. I don't know. I just, lets let Tammy be the in between decider. She's the new one on here that's got three more years, two more years to serve. Anderson: If nothing else, the other thing too is, you know when you and I came on the Council Keith is they always put typically $1,000.00 in whatever department that you were the liaison of. When we first started we were only the liaison for one department. Now we're the liaison for two departments. I've always felt guilty even using that money because you feel like you're taking $1,000.00 away from that department. I know that being educated enough on the issues is important as a Councilperson. If nothing else, maybe under the Council budget we should take the $1,000.00 that we had put into those other department's budgets and put that back under the Council for educational funds. You could just have a line item for schools and seminars or something. ( Meridian City Council Special Buoget Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 87 of 133 Bird: I would have no problem with that. Anderson: Then when you do draw from that money, you don't feel like you're robbing money from your department that you're a liaison for. Maybe then, at least there's the opportunity to go out and get some additional education that you need. Bird: I have no problem with that at all. *** End of Side Twelve *** De Weerd: -- and I'm probably one of the most active on Council because I have the time to do that and to go to the programs and the serve on me's outside committees. So, I would have more of an interest in the expense thing. I know when I had my cell phone it was mainly all on City issues time. You know I don't claim mileage and I probably should start claiming mileage. I more look at is as, I know a lot comes out of our pocket to do it and time is a different commodity than really actual expense. I don't want to burden my family with. Looking at even if, you could join something to represent the City that might be considered as well. I guess one thing that we do need to kind of look forward to and why we're changing the Mayor's to begin with. You know we're a professional City. We're a growing City and we need to start reflecting some of that professionalism. Unfortunately, or fortunately, I don't know which one. A lot of that is reflected in your commitment to the people that serve. We have elections coming up. Is this an item? Not everyone has the opinion --. You're not going to run to get rich. That's certainly not it. I think both your and Keith's points, I would more look at it in terms of trying to at least cover the expense that an official incurs to be higher profile in their community and to be more accessible and that sort of thing. Anderson: Some of these other departments, Tammy talked about how they give their Council people --. There's this one I have here that says. Like the City of Nampa. Will got a deal that said they give their Council people 625 per month but they also give them $125.00 per month for expenses. I guess I don't know how that works but some of that stuff that you're talking about whether it's for gas to travel to meetings or if it's to cover your cell phone bill. I mean, I'm not sure how they do that but you could check into something like that. There could be some reimbursement for out of the pocket expenses. Maybe there's an avenue to do that. Bird: Ron I would be more interested in something like that. I'm fortunate; you're fortunate because we have jobs with a lot of benefits that cover us here. Where Tammy and Cherie you know, they don't have anybody reimbursing them for gas or oil or driving the company vehicle. I would be more in favor of starting out with maybe 75 or 100 a month in expenses to a Councilman, or even --. Tammy what would you suppose you burn in gas a month within the City? $50.00? ( Meridian City Council Special Buoget Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 88 of 133 De Weerd: I've never kept track of it. Bird: Then another thing - I think another thing, deservingly so, the Mayor and Will, is if you're together they usually pick up the deal but I think you should have some money if you want to take somebody to lunch or something to buy lunch. If you're on City business that you could pay for. So, in that expense money you could do that I would go along with that over a raise. Anderson: What if we did a deal where we put into the Council's budget $100.00 per month per Councilman and then that would be budgeted. Then you could keep track of you mileage and if you bought somebody meals or your cell phone bill, then you could bring in the actual receipts at the end of the month and turn them in. then you can be reimbursed for- Bird: I'm for that 100 percent. Anderson: -- your out of pocket expenses. Bird: I'm for that and I would encourage somebody like Tammy or Cherie to take care of their mileage and stuff like that so they are reimbursed. Corrie: Let me ask you this. What do you think you're worth to the City of Meridian for what you're doing? Do you think you're worth $500.00? Bird: Do I think I'm worth the $100? I think I'm worth- Corrie: No, I didn't say 100. This is expenses. I mean, what do you think that you give, your worth to the City is valued at? Bird: Lets put it this way, personally if the hours I put into the City I was paid overtime at the job I've got now, probably I would triple my salary. But that's not what I got elected for. Corrie: No, I didn't ask you that. Bird: What I am worth to the City? We can all probably call around 100 people and 50 might say I'm worth a dollar and the other 50 say I'm worth nothing and then some. Corrie: You've got to be realistic. Bird: I'm being realistic. I think as the City of Meridian, what we're trying to do as I see in a two year period, we're trying to jump to be a Boise, Nampa, Caldwell who has worked, have had this system going for 60 years that I know of. We're ( Meridian City Council Speciar Buoget Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 89 of 133 trying to catch up with them on the lowest mill levy, the lowest budget; we're trying to jump up to them in two years. De Weerd: I agree with you Keith but you also look at what this Council does versus a Council not too long ago. We're putting a lot more time and effort. I'm not saying that I want a raise. Bird: When Bob - De Weerd: What I am saying is unfortunately my husband tracked my hours for two weeks. I think he tracked it all wrong but I do spend a lot of time on my community things. I understand that. Bird: (inaudible) City Council. De Weerd: It's my decision. A lot of it Keith. Bird: I spend a lot of time too. De Weerd: I know what it's value is but I know what I get back personally for doing that. I do it not for the money. I do it for my kids. I do it for my family. You know I do it to give back to a community that I love. That's why people go into public service. I don't think they do it for the compensation. I know how I feel when I have to look at myself in the mirror. Sometimes when someone tells me to pack my bags, I don't look at myself quite the same. Anderson: Especially when it's your family. De Weerd: No, you know fortunately they haven't told me that. But you know I know that I'm giving a unique commodity to my community and it makes me feel good. I'm pleased that I have that opportunity to do it. Corrie: Okay, so where are we? Bird: Where are we? Lets get going. Anderson: It sounds like - Corrie: Your expense is 100 - Anderson: -- both Tammy and Keith would be amenable to taking the $1,000.00 or whatever we've been putting in each of our departments and putting that back into the Council's budget as far as for educational but then in addition putting $100.00 per month per Councilman allowance for any out of pocket expenses that they could be reimbursed for. I would doubt very much that anyone would Meridian City Council Special Blluget Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 90 of 133 actually end up using $100.00 a month but at least it would be there if you did need it. Bird: Ron, you hit it just exactly. 8800 bucks I would go, which is a total of 8800 bucks in. That would be for 1000 for seminars, education, anything like that. Then 1200 per Councilman, which is $4800.00 for incurred expenses at a rate of $100.00 a month. Kilchenmann: The money that is in your liaison you probably don't want to transfer because that's in the enterprise - Bird: I beg your pardon? Kilchenmann: Some of the money for you that's in the enterprise fund, you probably don't want to transfer. Bird: See that's the problem we've got so I would say that --. Because we can't transfer that. Anderson: Just take it out of the enterprise fund. Bird: Just take it out of the enterprise fund. But then how does the enterprise fund reimbursed the general fund back for my --? De Weerd: Just like personnel and accounting does. J. Smith: How about every month we give you a travel voucher to fill out and track you know how many times you come here. It's real simple to do. (inaudible) Kilchenmann: You can even do it now because you have 2500 in your budget and you've spent like $166.00. You should all start turning in your expenses now and we can pay them. Bird: I think that's a personal decision. I personally can't. I can't turn in expenses. I would be double paid for my vehicle. Kilchenmann: Oh. But like if you bought a lunch or (inaudible). Bird: Oh, yes that's no problem. I have another --. Like I said, I hope Tammy and Cherie would use it because these people are out doing a lot of the City PR work. I would hope that they would use it and get their lunches and stuff like that. Corrie: What you're saying is you're staying at the $500.00 a month? Bird: Yes. Meridian City Council Special BlJu\Jet Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 91 of 133 Corrie: Plus 100 in expenses. You're making a total of $7200.00 a year that can be drawn on? You're getting 6,000 for wages and 1200 for expenses? Bird: Yes. Then we put another 4,000 in, 1,000 for each person for education. Then that could be seminars. That could help pay for our AIC, when you get good seminars there that's education. Corrie: Okay. That's fine. Bird: Isn't that what we said Ron? Wasn't that basically what you said? Anderson: Yes. Bird: Okay. Anderson: Plus I think that ought to get you a baseball hat. Bird: What? Anderson: Baseball hat, a shirt and a jacket once a year. De Weerd: Yes, maybe we can have a shirt every once in a while. Bird: I give you a shirt every year. Anderson: I've only got two. De Weerd: It says Ranger Shootout on it though. Anderson: No, I mean, the City one, only got two in three and a half years. I'm a shirt and a half between. De Weerd: I never got a shirt so you're ahead of me. Anderson: You got one of those blue ones. Bird: You got two more years to serve. De Weerd: Can I have the shirt off your back? Anderson: You've got those denims. Bird: You've got two more years to serve. Anderson: Because I saw you in them. ( Meridian City Council Special Bi......get Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 92 of 133 De Weerd: I wanted the shirt off you back. Bird: I kind of like those public work shirts those guys were wearing last night. (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Anderson: Anyhow, okay. Bird: Okay, we got that taken care of. (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Anderson: Okay moving on to the Mayor. Bird: Let's go to the Mayor. Anderson: Major. Bird: Major. Which page is major on? (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) De Weerd: Well, I haven't heard him present it for justification. Although I think we all know. (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) De Weerd: I'm ready. Anderson: Okay. Bird: The major's? Anderson: Stacy said she had put 6500 in there. Bird: 65,OOO? Anderson: Or 65,000. Yes. 6500, you're getting a cut. Corrie: Is that 6500 a month? Is that a cut? All in favor say aye? De Weerd: No, we just made you comparable to our wages. Corrie: I was thinking that was per month. Bird: Okay. Meridian City Council Special BLJul,/et Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 93 of 133 De Weerd: That's why you were so quick- Corrie: Yes. Bird: Mayor, what did --. I know they put 65,000 in there. What were you kind of expecting? Corrie: 82. Bird: No, I'm being serious. Anderson: Serious, what do you think you're worth to the City? Bird: What do you think you're worth? Corrie: Stacy has hit it right on the head I think. You've got probably your highest department head is making what? I forget what it was. 70- Bird: 76. Corrie: 76, I think the police chief is at 71 2 or 72 1, fire is close to 70,000. So I think technically speaking it should be somewhere in there. Not up that high. Bird: No. Mayor, this is no offense to you okay? Corrie: Okay. Bird: I worked out a system. We want to compare to Nampa all the time. Okay. We're comparing to Nampa. Anderson: Wait a minute. You are always comparing Nampa's Parks and Recreation and now today you've got a problem with comparing to Nampa. Bird: No, I'm not- (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Anderson: What is your problem today? Bird: I'm comparing to Nampa. But seriously, if you go --. You can compare to Pocatello and stuff like that. According to our 2000 census, we are 68 percent of their population. Now as I understand Maxine just got raised to 61,200. That's what is wrote down here, or will be raised. Kilchenmann: That's with her car. j Meridian City Council Special Bbuget Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 94 of 133 Bird: What? Kilchenmann: I did that because she gets- Bird: That's a lot different than the figure I got a week ago. Anderson: She doesn't want to drive a City car. De Weerd: Yes, that includes, you see they added in the $6300.00 to make it 61 Bird: That leaves that out. Anyway, if you take the 68 percent of her 61 2 and she has --. Don't get me wrong. I know she don't work any harder put any more time in than the Mayor of Meridian does. We've had a good deal because we've had you on part time pay. That works out to about 44 45,000. I know a year ago, or two years ago when we talked about this before I said I would be embarrassed to give a Mayor an undervalued salary. De Weerd: Than how come you gave him 20,000? Bird: Wait a minute. Wait a minute. De Weerd: Just thought I would ask. Bird: I realize for part time compared to what the other Mayors were getting part time, that was high. But we felt and Mr. Anderson was right with me. We felt that he was putting in enough hours that as a part time Mayor he deserved that. De Weerd: Again, I have always said, it's not part time or full time. You put in what you need to and he's been working full time. Bird: We're talking about what his salary is. De Weerd: Okay, but this is today. Bird: Yes. De Weerd: discussion. Corrie: I still say 65 is right because you've got Idaho Falls at 66 and we're going to be over Idaho Falls within two years anyway. De Weerd: I hope not. Bird: I hope not. ( Meridian City Councll Special B'uuget Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 95 of 133 Corrie: I mean, you're going to be - the population. De Weerd: Yes. Bird: They're 50,000. We're 35? Corrie: Idaho Falls is 43,000. Bird: No, Idaho Falls is 50,000. Corrie: I'm sorry. De Weerd: They're almost 51,000. Corrie: I'm sorry. I'm looking at the wrong line. Okay. (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Bird: Another thing I look at is the employees. Maxine is over the road departments. I don't know what the --. Ron do you have any idea what their employees --? How many their employees are? Anderson: A little over 500, 550. Bird: Okay. How many employees does the City of Meridian have? Are we at 200 yet? Anderson: About 150. Kilchenmann: 155. Bird: 155? Corrie: Okay. Bird: That's the only (inaudible). That's the way I justify it and that's all I have to say. Corrie: The way I look at it, you've got a CEO That's working with department heads and making that amount of money. You're full time. What do you think the Mayor is worth? 40,000? I don't. I think that's an insult. Bird: That's just what I told you. Meridian City Council Special BUl.IgetWorkshop July 18, 2001 Page 96 of 133 Corrie: I'm not taking it as an insult what you're saying. I don't think that's right and I don't think that's fair. Bird: Mayor. Corrie: There's too much to do and for what (inaudible) 40,000 people. I think it should be higher. (inaudible) Bird: That's what I told you. Don't take it personally. Corrie: I'm not. I just think that (inaudible) level is not fair. Bird: Do you think that all these Mayors are making more than they're --? I can tell you Brent Coles is not making --. That 85,000 is less than some of his department heads are making. I'll guarantee you Maxine Horne is making less than the majority of her department heads. Don't get me wrong. I know it's wrong. It's a deal that - Anderson: Lets go back to like our salary survey that we had done. If you look at a position and you look at the requirements for the position, you look at the responsibilities. You look at how many people they supervise. You look at the educational requirements for those positions. I mean, that's kind of how --. That's the scientifical information that they use to come up with that. You're right. I mean, I know in Nampa that the department heads, the police chief, the fire chief, the City Engineer, and the public works director, they all make more than the Mayor's salary does. Even though you have a degree in public administration if you look at what would happen if --. All you have to do is be a registered voter and live in the City of Meridian. So you could get that job on a popularity vote with absolutely no education. (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Anderson: I would hope not but that is a possibility. So, when I look at it from that standpoint --. I mean, if I look at Gary Smith for example. The educational requirements to be an engineer to have a degree in engineering and be the public works director, is significantly higher than some of the other department heads in the City and probably as well as the Mayor. From that standpoint I would say that probably the Mayor's position doesn't warrant as high a salary as some of the department heads in a city. That's my personal feeling. I think from what I see here, it looks like Gary's salary is 76 but police chief is 74, the fire chief 66. We have a big disparity there. I guess- (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Anderson: I just looked it was 66. Meridian City Council Special Buuget Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 97 of 133 (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Corrie: -- three percent. De Weerd: But you look at Idaho Falls and Pocatello. They're at 65,000 and they have a substantial population more than we do. (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) De Weerd: I would support more than what Keith mentioned. 65,000, if we were at 50,000 like these other cities with those wages, than we'd have a better population base and hopefully better tax base to support. I don't know. That's a hard one because you know I value your office. I know what you're worth --. I know we're all worth more than we get paid. Anderson: I'll be brave. I'm going to throw out a number, a range. 55 to 60. De Weerd: See I was going 50 to 55. Anderson: I just want to see what the reaction is. Bird: Ron, if you use logic I can't --. I mean, how do you bring that up logically, number one? How do we justify that number wise? We went with our department heads and we've had the surveys and like you said we justified by this, this, and this. Anderson: How do I justify it? Because it's in the range of what a lot of these other cities are paying. It's lower than our department heads because it doesn't require the education that some of them do. What are you using --? You don't think it should be that high? Bird: I don't to start with. Bob don't take it as a personal thing but I don't really believe that --. I mean, we have taken and we've went through and we cut out some enhancements that we could have used within the City in the deal. Nobody gets paid what they think they're worth or are probably worth right in our City. I was thinking between 45 and 50. Tammy is 50 to 55. You're 55 to 60. As far as I'm concerned if you go to 60, why not give the other 5,000 and go to 65? I think you've --. Okay, you start at 65 this year. Are you going to hold that for the next ten years? Anderson: He has to hold it for two years. Bird: I know it can be raised every year. Why can't it? Anderson: I thought you could only increase the Mayor and Council's salary every two years by ordinance. Meridian City Council Special BUu~et Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 98 of 133 Corrie: It's got to be - Anderson: So, whatever salary we pick is for two years. (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Bird: The resolution will be but the ordinance right now don't say a word about every two years. Corrie: The resolution does your salary. The ordinance just makes you full time. The resolution sets your salary for Council and Mayor. You're not looking at raises again, so until a new Mayor is elected. Then it's up to the Council whether to do it at that time. Every two years the Council does by resolution what the pay is going to be. Anderson: That's why we can only look this year at raising the Council pay. They won't be able to look at that again for two years. De Weerd: Okay. I have a formula here. Bird: Give us your formula. De Weerd: In Boise, they pay their Mayor by population 45 cents a person. In Idaho Falls it's 1.3 per person. In Pocatello it's also 1.3 per person. Nampa is 1.12. If we went with our population at the last census and times it by the 1.3 you have 455. Bird: I really went down that solution. De Weerd: (inaudible) I shouldn't have done my math? Bird: Well, I'll tell you one thing, if you want to go off of the population and work, like an overall deal at 65,000, Brent Coles should move to Meridian Idaho. I didn't want to throw Boise in. now lets face the facts. Who has the most work on their plate as a Mayor in the state of Idaho? Corrie: I don't know. Mayor Coles has five aides. So, they pay them (inaudible). Bird: But Mayor he's got a population of six times what (inaudible). De Weerd: I would say the Mayor of Middleton right now. Bird: That's a guy that I wouldn't want to be. De Weerd: Poor Frank. I don't envy him. f r Meridian City Council Special BUll~et Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 99 of 133 Bird: Anyway, that's basically what I did was I went back and this is how I came up with mine. I felt that that was, by comparison to other cities that --. I looked at Boise's too and we would be down at 38,000. Corrie: Well, ['II tell you something. De Weerd: You're not going to quit are you? Bird: We've got you regardless. Corrie: I really think that people are going to look at this and say the City, the fastest growing City --. We've got the most work that needs to be done. The Council has increased and I think that the Council should be paid more. I honestly feel that way. I think if you give anything less than 55 or 60 you're wrong because whoever is going to be in this job after I am here, they better know what they're doing because there's a whole lot of work out there. It's being done probably not being seen under the circumstances. I still think that if you do anything less than 55 or 60, you're off. I think you're giving whoever is going to be Mayor a say that you're not worth anything other than that. I think the Mayor whoever it is whether it's whoever, is worth voting for. Bird: I don't disagree with you Mayor but I've always said anybody that runs for office can't be too smart because who in the devil would spend $2million to be elected a representative from the State of Idaho that you earn 135,OOO? Why would we a little Council here, pay- Corrie: It has nothing to do with that. Bird: You know what- Corrie: Everybody has got to look at what the job is being done. I'm not looking at mine, I'm looking ahead. If you want to get somebody here that's got any value to the City that wants to do it, has got to be paid for it. I think if you do it in the 55 to 60,000 range, you're going to get good people that's coming in here. I know that the ones that are looking at it coming to that is worth every penny of that with what they've got. If you give something away, the value is not there for the people. If you pay for it there's some value there. They're going to work. I think whenever you say that the Mayor of the fastest growing city in Idaho is going and it's going to keep going and I don't think it's going to stop that much. I think it needs to be in the range that Ron has made. Bird: Mayor, I don't disagree. But let me tell you- Corrie: You do disagree or you wouldn't be (inaudible). Meridian City Council Special BuuIJet Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 100 of 133 Bird: I don't disagree with what you're saying. I disagree with --. Let me tell you something and this includes you. This includes Ron and I and Tammy. I think and this includes you more than it does Ron and Tammy and I. We did our biggest, probably out of that 264 percent of growth, three years was probably 200 percent of it. If you go back and look at the building departments, which you at that time was the Mayor. I think you were the Mayor for one year and a Councilman for the four years. I think we did a - we have our problems but I think we did a heck of a job with a part time Mayor and a hard working Mayor and a lot of good employees. I almost feel like 45,000 is a token and it probably is a token. But I cannot justify to our taxpayers, which you guys want to go back in November and ask for another mill levy increase. I cannot justify to our taxpayers of paying, if we go to Ron's range of paying 20 to 25 percent more than all the other mayors by going by comparable employees and stuff like that. I have a hard time justifying it. It certainly is not --. I told you up front two years ago, that it would be a slap in the face to anybody. I mean, I would like to sit and think about it. Lets keep the 65,000 in the budget, what we've got right now. I don't see any reason we have to cut it right now. Let's think on it and do some checking. Right now, we're all confused. Corrie: I'm not confused. (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) De Weerd: I think we could pretty much wrap a lot of this up though Keith today. Why don't you take a break and think about it. Let's make a decision. Anderson: Or we can move on to enterprise fund and come back -- Bird: Let's go to the enterprise fund. Anderson: --after you've had a little time to digest it a little bit. I'm like the Mayor I mean it just that really to me --. I mean it just doesn't reflect well of us and it is in my mind almost an insult. I think 55 would be the low end of what I could support. I mean, that's, I've had many conversations with Maxine. That's what she makes and she definitely feels like she is under compensated for the hours that she works. I don't disagree with that. I've always maintained that if we want to have good quality people running for the Mayor, the salary has got to be there. I agree with you. People don't do this for the money but it is also insulting in many cases to say that we only feel like your only 40 or 45 but yet we'll pay our police chief and our fire chief 70,000 a year. That just doesn't make sense. It's not proportionate. It's not commensurate. Lets move onto the enterprise and come back and visit it a little later. Corrie: Okay. (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Meridian City Council Special Buaget Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 101 of 133 Bird: Okay, secretary equipment, that's yes. (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Bird: Software upgrade, that's a necessity, I believe. AutoCAD software - well unless anybody from public works --. Does anybody have any problem with this 37,200? De Weerd: No. Bird: I think it's all necessary. In the water department- Anderson: what is the one well, is it 25 that- Bird: The 26 was to be taken out. 26 is out and we cut down 25 to 200,000 because that's all they would get done next year. The bypass, they didn't have a real heartache one way or the other. You guys start saying something if you agree. The well 10 bypass, do you think it's necessary because Rick didn't think it was you know that we could do it or forget it? Anderson: Was that the one that dumped it into the drain if- Bird: Yes sir Ron. I think it's a necessity myself. Anderson: I think after that problem we had at the water tower and flooding out Zamzow's, I think we need to do that. Yes. Bird: okay. Now back to the wastewater treatment. Corrie: Are you going to keep in the back flow prevention officer? Bird: [believe we need to Mayor. De Weerd: I do too. Bird: I believe that is something that if we don't get on the stick and get Joe some help, --. It was your recommendation too to get a new guy because Joe is buried. Corrie: We went down that pretty fast. I was not following the other day. Okay. Bird: Do you have any problems with it? Corrie: No. j Meridian City Council Special Buuget Workshop Jury 18, 2001 Page 102 of 133 Bird: Okay. Anderson: What's the SCADA program upgrade? Corrie: Is that that wand, that magic wand? Bird: Yes that is getting our upgrade so that we can read all our meters with the wands. They've already got some of them. Anderson: I thought we were there. We're not there yet? De Weerd: That was just two of them right? Bird: Yes sir. De Weerd: Yes. Bird: Yes Ma'am I mean. De Weerd: That's all right. Anderson: Two wands were 5,000 a piece, that was- Bird: The SCADA program upgrade is --. Reta help me out. Cunningham: I bet it's the software. Bird: That's the software for the --. Kilchenmann: It tells which --. If you look at it, it has all the wells and it (inaudible ). Bird: That's right. Kilchenmann: (inaudible) they've added so many wells it's gotten fragmented. Bird: Yes. Kilchenmann: So, he wants to go in and make sure and upgrade the whole program and make sure - Bird: That was (inaudib[e). You guys agree with that? Anderson: Yes. Meridian CIty Council Special BLiuget Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 103 of 133 Bird: Okay. Come on down. Fire hydrant replacement, I believe we need that don't you Ron? Anderson: Yes because really what that is, is when the fire department identifies that there's a shortage of hydrants in an area --. That only includes about 20 installations. This gives the water department the ability to go out and contract for someone to put those hydrants in if they're needed. Now, if they had their own backhoe and could dig those they could save a little money. Let's not go there. Bird: Lets don't go there. We've already argued enough today. Water Main extension, that's a necessity in there because you never know when you're going to get hit with one of those. Those could be a burden. Well No. 25, we cut that down. Well 10 bypass we felt. The 26 we took completely out. Okay. The laboratory database. That's a real necessity. Anything in that lab I think is a necessity. Does anybody disagree? Corrie: They wrote that second on the list yes. Anderson: That plant (inaudible) and Manual, is that --- Bird: That is a necessity. Anderson: Well, it's a necessity but it sounds to me like they're taking a very high tech approach to that. I mean, you can have the manuals. What they are talking about is contracting with somebody and going in and putting all this computerized, like it's some kind of a virtual reality tour thing that you go into a computer and have all your operation stuff on how all the valves and everything work. Bird: Let me tell you something Ron. Anderson: Doesn't that sound to you too like that was a pretty high tech version of a manual? Cunningham: We questioned it. (inaudib[e) De Weerd: It's animated too right? Bird: Each one - De Weerd: That's how we got the Baby Ruth. (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Meridian City Council Special BUlIbjet Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 104 of 133 Bird: As they've done each expansion out there they have got O&M manuals on every piece of equipment and everything that's been put in there by the contractor. Cunningham: They have? Bird: They should. You bet. Cunningham: Well, Jon talked like that the manual that they have is outdated. Bird: It can't be outdated if it's the existing equipment that they put in there. That is under every contract. Have you not received all of the O&M manuals for the fire department? Anderson: Yes but what they do - I mean, I all comes in if you add a new piece of equipment then you get an operation and maintenance manual with that. Then you have to put that into your overall book- Bird: That's right. Anderson: -- that this is a piece of equipment that's in this facility. The way I understand this, what Jon is doing is he's going to hire somebody, instead of him assembling that manual, they're going to do some high tech computerized version of this manual. Didn't you get that Keith? Bird: Yes, that's what I got and that's why I'm questioning the 150,000. Anderson: That's what I think. Bird: If you've got the stuff and all you have to do is- Anderson: Is read it in the book. Bird: -.- into a book. If they want to put it on a fish or something like that, I would have no problem with that but I can't believe 150,000 for an O&M manual. That's pretty high tech. (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Corrie: Did they give you any reason why it was that high? (inaudible discussion from staff) Bird: Because they were going to have it all hired out. Anderson: Because it's - yes. Like I say it's a virtual reality. ( Meridian City Council Special BUu\jel Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 105 of 133 (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Anderson: I mean, I would think that for a lot less money and I don't even know what that would cost. Somebody could manually put that manual together. Bird: You should be able to hire part time construction managers too that could put that complete building going in manual together. If it was me, I would throw in about 15,000 and tell him to go figure out how to do it. Anderson: Lets do it. Bird: What? Anderson: Lets do it then. Bird: Change that to 15,000. (inaudible discussion from staff) De Weerd: That's really cool. Bird: The waste thickener, we know is a necessity. Street crossing- De Weerd: Just remember what we did last year. Anderson: That thousand-gallon diesel tank needs to go up. Bird: To 10,000. Anderson: Well, it's 10,000 now. The price of it- De Weerd: We needed a new price on that. Anderson: He was going to get us a new price but lets put 20,000 in there for now. Bird: You know Ron I was talking to Brad last night and we could get --. While we're putting that tank in we need to put as large a one as we can get in there and get all the EPA things all done. If you get, say a 10,000 tank and you only need 2,000 now. You just take a weld and weld in a plate and have --. I know it costs you more in and outs. You've half the battle by getting it in and setup. You get al the licensing you need. ( Meridian City Council Special Buui:Jet Workshop July 18,2001 Page 106 of 133 Anderson: You can actually order those with two compartments and you could have different grades of fuel in there if you wanted to or the same. Landscape, mower. Bird: Landscape and lawn mower. Anderson: It was 10,000 for a mower in there. Do you want to cut it? Bird: He's got four and a half acres of mowing. Did I not pick that up right? Ki[chenmann: Yes. This also includes- Bird: Beg your pardon? Kilchenmann: This includes finishing the- Bird: It's the landscaping, yes. Kilchenmann: Yes. De Weerd: Yes. Corrie: How much are they asking for landscaping? Anderson: 27. If we give them a mower, I think it ought to be about half of what they're asking because they're asking for a $10,000.00 commercial mower. I don't think four acres is all that much to maintain. De Weerd: Yes, let's reduce it by 5,000. Bird: I was going to say if we're going to do that, lets give them the old parks mower that's pretty good sized and let them buy the park a new $10,000.00 one because the parks mow a lot more ground in a week than that's ever going to get mowed. (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Bird: For the existing ones they've got now. (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Bird: Not that big one though. Anderson: Do you want to reduce that by 5? ( Meridian City Council Special Buoget Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 107 of 133 Bird: I would love to reduce it down by five. Anderson: Okay. We'll make that 32? Bird: Let's go to 30. Cunningham: 30? Bird: 32, I got out voted. Three to one. Anderson: Asphalt repair. Bird: That's a necessity Ron. See that's what gets me is he is asphalting a whole bunch of area, square footage and he's doing all the stuff for 80,000 and Tom's- that's why I wonder how much you get for 10,OOO? (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Bird: Yes that's pennies a square footage. Then also the more you lay the cheaper it's going to be. Anderson: Tuiterary Filter bypass line. Bird: Need that or you can't clean at times. Anderson: Oh, you can't find a third way around that filter. Bird: Remodel breakroom. Anderson: 30,000? Bird: I didn't think there was that much to remodel in the breakroom. De Weerd: Is that the breakroom we were sitting in? Bird: No it's not. Anderson: That doesn't need repairs. (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) De Weerd: Oh, the one to the west of that? Bird: Yes. Anderson: Do you want to trim that down. ( Meridian City Council Special Buaget Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 108 of 133 De Weerd: Isn't that where he said the operators work out of? Bird: Yes that's where they have their break. De Weerd: And they wanted to do some controlled remodel as well? Bird: No. De Weerd: What is that 30,000? Bird: That was just the breakroom remodel. De Weerd: I remember hearing it differently because I thought the breakroom sounded ridiculous that we were- Cunningham: That is just the breakroom. They are going to take the old lab and combine it with the breakroom. Bird: But is it- Cunningham: The old lab has like a breakroom - Bird: Bird: But is it - Cunningham: The old lab has like a breakroom - Bird: Yes. Cunningham: -- it has like a little file room and then the lab. Bird: And they were going to make it all to one breakroom weren't they? Cunningham: Yes. (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Anderson: 20,000. Bird: Yes 20,000 is plenty. The small pickup he does need. *** End of Side Thirteen *** Anderson: Mill drill small equipment. Meridian City Council Special budget Workshop July 18,2001 Page 109 of 133 Bird: That is just, they need for the repairs out there. Digester bypass- Anderson: Is that like shop equipment Keith? Bird: I think so. Anderson: Like the milling machine? Bird: The small equipment that they use as I understand it is half inch drill here and there or something like that. Cunningham: I understood -- Anderson: I hope not for 18,000. Cunningham: That mill drill was like $4,000.00 and he said it was actually to fabricate metal. He said it bends. Bird: Yes it bends and everything. Anderson: I think its so they can machine and build different parts that they need. Cunningham: Yes. Anderson: I'm thinking that's a little over inflated. Bird: 8,000? Anderson: 18, no that's 8,000. Bird: 8,000. (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Anderson: It's 4,000 for the mill. (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Bird: Miscellaneous in there again. Digester bypass line. It never covers everything. De Weerd: Out of all those they are the top priority? Bird: You better believe it. All three of those are top priority. ( Meridian City Council Special bUlIget Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 110 of 133 De Weerd: Especially the lighting unless any of you want to go out there and walk at night. Anderson: I was working in the lab late one night. Cunningham: (inaudib[e). (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Cunningham: Do you guys want to look at replacements? Bird: We probably better. Anderson: Yes. De Weerd: Four computers- (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Anderson: That backhoe went bye bye. Bird: Yes the backhoe went bye-bye. Anderson: Is that one computer or two? Cunningham: That was one. Bird: One computer. Cunningham: It includes a computer and a printer (inaudible) the whole package. Anderson: Doesn't that price seem a little inflated to you? Cunningham: We thought it was high. Bird: It does to me. Anderson: What kind of printer are they looking at? Cunningham: It was just a DeskJet but they had $799.00 for it. De Weerd: What kind of computer? Bird: What kind of computer? Meridian City Council Special DLlLlget Workshop July 18.2001 Page 111 of 133 Cunningham: the computer was a Compaq, it's basically what public works is using. It's a little higher end. It also includes their installation costs - ' (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Cunningham: they were also paying $650.00 for Windows 2000. Anderson: Is that software, is that part of this? Cunningham: Yes. Anderson: Because I thought he had something else. Bird: Doesn't Windows 2000 come with the computer? Cunningham: it did for us. Bird: I got it on mine. I got a colored printer, I got a scanner. (inaudible discussion from staff) Anderson: lets make it 25 just to be mean. Bird: I was going to say two. (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Bird: Make it 2,000. De Weerd: You are having way too much fun over there. Anderson: Oh, Keith is really mean. (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Cunningham: Yes, you took his backhoe. De Weerd: Yes. Bird: He knew the backhoe was gone. De Weerd: 2500. Bird: I got out voted again three to one. (inaudible discussion from staff) Meridian City Council Special olo...get Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 112 of 133 Cunningham: just to replace - Bird: Mayor didn't we already approve the prevention (inaudible)? De Weerd: Yes, we're just looking at the replacements. Anderson: That's just the stuff above that. Bird: Okay. Anderson: Okay, where's the wastewater? Do you have any enhancements? Bird: Wastewater replacements. Cunningham: He just had that pickup. Anderson: That one was the 93 and it had 100,000 and they used it for what? Bird: They use it to haul and to run around. They're on their second transmission is the problem. De Weerd: Yes. Bird: So, they need to get a new one. Anderson: Oh, that was the one that needed a transmission and a motor and breaks for 300 and - Bird: 8,000 is what we put into the 62,000 backhoe. (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) De Weerd: Okay, next. Corrie: (inaudible) (inaudible discussion from staff) Anderson: Two computers. I think they need to. (inaudible discussion from staff) Corrie: They get two of them for the price of one. Meridian City Councll Special Buuget Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 113 of 133 Bird: I was just going to say, how come they're getting two because they're not buying everything else with it are they? (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Cunningham: They don't need printers or anything. They're just wanting new computers. Then this js Public works. Bird: Gary's got - Anderson: 1500 a piece. Bird: Your hardware and secretary equipment. De Weerd: Those are all enhancements. Bird: Yes. (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Anderson: What is secretary equipment? Nail fjles and --? De Weerd: And you tell me that you taught sexual harassment class? Anderson: That's right. Bird: You taught what? De Weerd: Sexual sensitivity - Anderson: Who better? (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) De Weerd: Oh, you played good guy bad guy? (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) De Weerd: Yes both of you do a really good job. Oh, you need to get the merit increases in there too, right? Bird: What? (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) ( Meridian City Council Special BUdget Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 114 of 133 Anderson: Oh, yes did you put their salary increases in there since they didn't? Did that include the merit increases? Didn't Jon Shawcroft say that they didn't have anything in there? (inaudible discussion from staff) Cunningham: -- two vacant positions and he wants to increase those and (inaudible ). De Weerd: Didn't they need to look at the operators --? Bird: Pauline is getting in a new schedule. Kilchenmann: Pauline said that she was going to look at those mechanics. There's only two of them. Cunningham: Yes I gave her that enhancement that showed one, an operator and mechanic. Jon had taken both of them at 25, or 20. Bird: Yes. Cunningham: For a wage. You need (inaudible). (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Cunningham: So, we know the mechanic needs to go up 6,000. Bird: Yes and how much does the operator? Cunningham: The operator needs to go up 6,000. The mechanic, Jon thinks that probably could stay there because he has current mechanics - Bird: He what? Cunningham: - he has a current mechanic that had been there a year and is only making 27,000. He doesn't want to bring him up above that Bird: No. (inaudib[e discussion from staff) Bird: That's not a good idea. (inaudib[e discussion from staff) Cunningham: -- this year and [oak at whether or not they're in range. Meridian City Council Special BUl.lget Workshop July 18,2001 Page 115 of 133 Bird: How much do we need to add to personnel then? De Weerd: Then is she going to have to adjust it during the budget year? Cunningham: If it comes back that there needs to be some kind of increase. De Weerd: Last year we had a line item for salary adjustments. Bird: Yes. De Weerd: Do we need to put something there? Kilchenmann: We don't want to do that because I think it gets that budgeting for the what if kind of thing. Then it's hard for Pauline when people come in and want to make a salary change (inaudible). That's what we talked about if we could handle that. If we do a serious (inaudible) and it comes out that we need to make an adjustment, especially in the enterprise fund, if they could come back to you and say okay here's the hard numbers. We need to make a budget adjustment. Bird: (inaudible) De Weerd: Okay. That sounds fair. (inaudible discussion from staff) De Weerd: I need to take a break from this. Corrie: Six percent interest (inaudible). Bird: Okay, so we got everything pretty well taken care of there, in the enterprise fund? I believe. Cunningham: Yes. Bird: Okay that looks okay. Now we need to go back to administration. Corrie: Six percent money, that's half a million dollars. (inaudible discussion from staff) Corrie: That's the interest on that. (inaudible) Bird: (inaudible) (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) ( Meridian City Council Special BI"...getWorkshop July 18, 2001 Page 116 of 133 Anderson: Keith, what if on the loan that we've got right now at the police station, or the loan that we're going to get is based off of our current fund balance? What if we took like any fund balance that occurred after this year and paid on the principle? Bird: (inaudible) Anderson: Do what? Bird: Oh, you mean after this (inaudible)? Anderson: Yes. When this budget year --. Because we don't know how much fund balance there will be at this point. That would be an option that future Councils could look at, at the end of the year after you get your audit. You could say instead of adding this to our fund balance we want to pay this on that principle. (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Bird: You take 200,000 (inaudible) you put it into Buffington Moore (inaudible) Anderson: We're drawing more interest than what we're paying? Bird: There's no penalty after, what was it Mayor, two or three years? We can't pay (inaudible). (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Bird: -- if everything goes to pot and our fund balance is only drawing four and a half, or five percent then yes you want to pay the thing off. That's what they had told me. The only thing we've got left is the Mayor's salary. Anderson: I think. Bird: Oh, man. Anderson: The other salary that I know of that we're going to have a little problem with is going to be Joe Silva because with these new adjustments in the union contract, I think Joe makes 52 and the captains are going to make 50,000 and Kenny is making 66 or 69 you said. So, there's going to be a big split there that Joe should probably be in that mid 50 range or 55 to 56. The other Deputy Chief position, if you look in the budget is 47. You've got captains making more than the Deputy Chief position now. Bird: Yes but you (inaudible). Really and truthfully, -- ( Meridian City Council Special Buuget Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 117 of 133 (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Bird: He gets a three percent increase. (inaudible). Anderson: He's going to make - (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Anderson: I was looking in the wrong column. The one with the increase, he'll be making 54 4. Bird: That's right. Anderson: Kenny is making 69. The captains will be making 50,300. Bird: Ron I can tell you right now that you've got firefighters that are going to make more than Kenny does this year because of their overtime. Anderson: But the vacant deputy chief is 49, so you've got captains making more than that position. De Weerd: Well, the captains make too much then. Bird: No. The captains have got a lot of responsibility, not that this guy won't. Anderson: There's no doubt he's going to have more responsibility (inaudible). Bird: -- how many years does our captains have? How many years have they got? Anderson: Some of them will have one. Bird: How long have they been with the fire department? Anderson: I don't know. Bird: They come up through the ranks, right? We're starting this guy at 49 years. How long did it take Steve (inaudible) to get (inaudible)? Corrie: You can't look at it that way. Bird: Well, I do. Anderson: There has to be a- (' Meridian City Council Special 8u"get Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 118 of 133 (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Anderson: You've got to have the base salary. I mean, just your right. There might be people with overtime but that's not your base. Overtime is not a guarantee. The base has to be - De Weerd: (inaudible) (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Anderson: The base has to be higher than the- Bird: Ron, you're telling me that the inspector that's - or the second chief that is just coming on? Anderson: He's a chief officer. He's going to have responsibility over the top of you. He's going to give you orders and you're going to make more than him. Bird: Over the captains. I guess you go back to the construction trade. I don't know very many journeymen that are out working the field that don't make more than the project manager or the estimator. Anderson: I think it's two of those positions that Kenny ought to come to Pauline and the Mayor and see if there's an adjustment that needs to be made. Bird: See, your adjustment --. The only thing you can make adjustment on is your new guy. You can't make it on the captains because we've already negotiated with them. Anderson: No that's not what I'm talking about. It's the two deputy chief positions that need to be looked at. Bird: I think that needs to be done then. (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Bird: If you think they're under --. See I think they are second in command. I think that they should be making as much --. The deputy chief should be making as much as our police captains are. I know they're not. Anderson: They're not, no. I think the police captains are 66,000. (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) r Meridian City Council Special Bl.ov~et Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 119 of 133 Anderson: I think they need to probably be about that, around 56,000. That's something Kenny can address. I just didn't know if we needed to put something in the budget to make it so they could - (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Bird: Pull up the police personnel wages, or fire I mean. I'm sorry. Cunningham: The fire one? Bird: Yes. Cunningham: I didn't put everything on the disc so hang on. De Weerd: Just pull it up in your book there. Cunningham: Yes it is in the book (inaudible) Bird: I want here to run it on the computer so that we get the change and we see what it does to the budget. De Weerd: Okay. Bird: We need to put about 15 to 20,000 more in personnel. De Weerd: We don't need it per person --. You know we don't need to identify it person by person. Bird: No, we just need the overall. Cunningham: Yes. Bird: Isn't that right Ron? Corrie: You only need to put ten in. Bird: Put ten in wages but you've also got to do the benefits. Corrie: That's what I say, you've got two so you should have already added about 15 or 16. (inaudible). (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Anderson: What do you have figured for (inaudible)? (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Meridian City Council Special Blluget Workshop Jury 18, 2001 Page 120 of 133 Anderson: On that nine and ten --. On lines nine and ten there, are we looking at what it would take if we bump those salaries to somewhere around that 56,000 range? If you changed them on here, does it change it on all your other sheets? Cunningham: No. Anderson: They're not linked? Cunningham: No. Kilchenmann: So, we can just change it on the other one. Cunningham: I can change it here and then calculate (inaudible). De Weerd: So, the first one, the one that's currently occupied is 56 and the other one like 54? Or do you want them both at the same level? Anderson: I mean, the one would not make exactly what the other one because the other one has two years or three years or something in there. We're just trying to get a ballpark figure what we have to add. Bird: What would you --? Take the existing to 58 and the other one to 55? The starting one. Corrie: You mean the top wage? Bird: No I mean for the existing deal, take that to about 58,000. Take the 49 and bring him up to about 55. Cunningham: Do you want me to do that? Anderson: Well, lets see what that looks like. That would change all your benefit numbers? Cunningham: Yes. Okay, then for your admin total wages, benefits is going to be 263. Bird: We've got to increase it? Anderson: It was 259 before? (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Bird: How do we only increase it 4,OOO? (' Meridian City Council Special 8't1uget Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 121 of 133 Anderson: That doesn't sound right. Cunningham: Yes, that didn't sound right. (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Anderson: Oh, you went 49 and that should be 55. Bird: 55. Cunningham: this one here? Anderson: Yes. De Weerd: Yes. Bird: Yes. Now --. The Mayor was about right, 12,000. Cunningham: (inaudible) 271. Anderson: That looks closer. Bird: What does that do to our overall budget? Cunningham: Increase it 6,000. Bird: We were okay under that weren't we? Cunningham: Yes we had 53. (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Anderson: At least it's budgeted. (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Anderson: Okay. Let's go back to the Mayor's salary then. Do we need a break first? Are we ready to --? Bird: I would go for it. Anderson: Okay. Let's do it. Bird: You're at 55 to 60. I'm at 45 to 50. Tammy is at 50 to 55. The Mayor --. Meridian City Council Special BUuQet Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 122 of 133 Anderson: Okay, you give a little bit and I'll give a little bit. That closes our range. Bird: We'll just come down to Tammy's range. Anderson: Then we're between 50 to 55. Bird: That's what I'm saying. We're between that and I have no problem doing that. Pick a number Mayor between 50 and 55. Corrie: 55. Bird: 55? Come on now. That was Ron's 55 to 60. Mine was --. Why didn't you pick my 50? It's got to be between 50 and 55. Corrie: Do you not think the Mayor's position is worth 55? Bird: Mayor, I told you - Corrie: No, I'm just asking you a question. Don't you think that's worth 55,000, the Mayor of this City? Bird: I have no doubt that it is. Corrie: Then why don't you do it at 55? Bird: I'll do it- Corrie: We've still got one Councilperson not here. I'm telling you that's where I'll go. You asked my opinion. Cunningham: You've got 55, you just dropped the Mayor's budget 12,000. Bird: Yes but we- (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Bird: We added 8800 back into ours. Cunningham: That's right. Anderson: Do we have any money --? Bird: That's fine (inaudible). Put it in there. Corrie: What? Meridian City Council Speciar BUulolel Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 123 of 133 Anderson: Do we have any money in the budget for special projects that are (inaudible) like hiring this guy to do Strategic Planning? Kilchenmann: (inaudible) De Weerd: Yes it should be in there, (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) De Weerd: But do we have any payments that haven't been made that are going to get snuck out of that? Like this year, they didn't complete the fire evaluation. That got taken out and the police evaluation. So we didn't even have enough left this year to do the strategic evaluation. So, is there anything that's going to carry over into this figure that we need to be considering? Jon already gave his figure didn't he? (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) De Weerd: It was around 20,OOO? About 25? Corrie: About 2025,000. De Weerd: Okay, so we have some left over. Although do we have a reason to have it at 45,000? What's the justification? Bird: [think- . Anderson: Because I'm going to kill you and I'm going to need psychotherapy when I'm done. Bird: No I think there's (inaudible) we need to have taken care of. De Weerd: Okay. Well you wouldn't give Shari it because she isn't specific on ordinances but we put in 20,000 extra in ours and we're not justifying it? Anderson: We are the supervisors. Bird: We are the supervisors and don't have to justify it. Anderson: We are the keeper of the gate. Bird: You didn't hear that (inaudible) (inaudib[e discussion from staff) Meridian City Council Special BUu\:lel Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 124 of 133 De Weerd: Oh, it's kind of like at home, the parents have different rules than the kids? Bird: That's right. Anderson: Yes. Now you're catching on. Bird: Now you're catching on. Anderson: Boy, it's taken you long enough. Bird: Where have you been all these times? Cunningham: Okay we increase, increase fire, decrease the Mayor's. So we net the 60,000. Bird: I'm sure we'll find something for that. (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Corrie: (inaudible) I think you should make that 65 now. Bird: I'm not that - Corrie: Let's ask the general public. Knowing Kendra she will not say a word. De Weerd: She's not going to go there. Corrie: Okay. Anderson: If we do have 60,000 I did have one concern on the fire about the equipment budget that we sliced 15. If you guys wouldn't have any heartburn I would go back to 70. That way we would only trim that five. Bird: I don't have no heartburn if you need it. Cunningham: 70? Anderson: Yes because I know they are really short on fire hose. (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Bird: Let's see the parks. Go to the parks. I'll tell you what folks. We did the same thing as we've done the last two years. We shortchanged the parks compared to the other ones. { Meridian City Council Special BUl.J!:let Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 125 of 133 Anderson: Well, then give them the other, whatever they needed for the Skate Park. Bird: No, let him go raise that. There's other things that- Corrie: Why don't you leave the 50,000 alone? De Weerd: At least give him 10. If they want to (inaudible) Bird: Which one Mayor? Corrie: I would say, if you think that you're going to give it to them during the year. Why don't you keep your 50 where you are and then adjust it accordingly? Or you can give them another --. See everything you have down at the bottom you can use as a cushion. De Weerd: Can you give them ten on the Skate Park and 20 in the parkland? Anderson: Here's a revolutionary idea. Why don't you call it capitol improvement fund? Then we put that 50,000 away in to start to build towards a new City Hall or whatever other capitol (inaudible) we need. Bird: I think that Mayor had it hit on the deal. Let's just leave things like they are. Tammy the reason I don't want to give that to, any on that (inaudible) Skate Park because you know darn good and well if they only have to raise ten that's all they're going to have to raise. If they have to raise 20, they'll go raise 20. You know that. Lets just keep that in a reserve, that 50,000 and I'm sure we'll have something come up within the year that we'll probably need it for. De Weerd: That was 144 something. So, at least give them five. Bird: Where? Corrie: What you do not want to do - De Weerd: The Skate Park. Corrie: -- close your ears here. What you do not want to do is go into this budget with 50,000 or 60,000 over and then go to the people - Bird: Oh, I know. Corrie: -- and ask for a mill levy. But like Ron said if you put whatever is left there as a capitol improvement- Bird: Capitol improvement. Meridian City Council Special Buaget Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 126 of 133 Corrie: -- or future then you're coming right out to the dollar- Bird: That's what we've got- Corrie: People are saying you guys have really been cutting it and you're doing slashing. That's good. You do need that. But if you come out with extra money in this budget they're going to take a different look at that. De Weerd: I'm not suggesting extra money. Corrie: I know. I'm saying - De Weerd: (inaudible) (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) De Weerd: But can we at least put 5,000 to the Skate Park? Bird: No. Let him raise it. (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Bird: 20,000 is what we're asking him to raise. De Weerd: No, because the price came in at 144. Bird: You don't know what the price --. It has not been bid. It's the same thing as the police station. You're assuming what they did. (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) De Weerd: Okay. Bird: Lets [eave it like it is with that 50,000 --. In the Skate Park you can give him $323.00. Let's put that in capitol improvements. (inaudib[e discussion amongst Council members) Bird: We've got to start here. Can you arrange that gals? Corrie: Or you can do one other thing. Bird: Put it in the Mayor's budget- (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Meridian City Council Special Buuyet Workshop Jury 18, 2001 Page 127 of 133 Bird: Now you want 105? De Weerd: Into a City Hall. Corrie: Put it in the City Hall budget. Kilchenmann: We're putting it in the accounting budget. Corrie: For a future City Hall budget. (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Bird: That's capitol improvement. Corrie: (inaudible) I'm just saying it's (inaudible) Bird: That's going to (inaudible) De Weerd: City hall. Kilchenmann: Accounting budget. Bird: We can start that anytime. De Weerd: City Hall planning. (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Bird: You're not going to be able to bond fund that- (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) De Weerd: Remember Rich Allison came to you for that railroad - Bird: Mr. Mayor. (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Bird: If we are done with --. Are you girls now what to go back and print right? Kilchenmann: Yes. You didn't do special services. Bird: What? Meridian City Council Special Buul,jet Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 128 of 133 Anderson: On those enhancements do you want to change like where it said two fire trucks? Do you want that to say one fire truck? You'll change those kind of things? Kilchenmann: (inaudible) personnel and operating costs. She's changed the totals. So, we'll need to go through and change it all. Bird: Okay. You'll get that all and then print it out to us? De Weerd: You put that in City Hall, right? Bird: Put that in a capitol improvement. De Weerd: For City Hall. Cunningham: Do you want to definitely earmark it? Bird: (inaudible) Anderson: Yes we want a specific cause but I don't want it to say City Hall. I want it to say capitol because it's that's more broad. Bird: (inaudible). I'm there, capitol. (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Kilchenmann: We can do our own reports- Bird: Yes. Kilchenmann: Off balance sheet reports that show (inaudible). Bird: Girls, do we need to do anymore? Kilchenmann: Special services. Corrie: So, when are you going to set the- (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Corrie: The 30th? De Weerd: 29th? (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) [ Meridian City Council Special BUuget Workshop Jury 18, 2001 Page 129 of 133 Bird: 29th, we already set it. Corrie: I thought we did but I didn't know - Anderson: What was that? The computer? Cunningham: Computers at public works (inaudib[e). Anderson: Again, it's an over inflated computer. Is this one a printer too? So, 25 like we did with the other one? Bird: Yes. (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Bird: On performances, we're going to go on the three percent? Cunningham: Yes and we already switched that. Bird: You already switched that didn't you Reta? Cunningham: Yes. (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Bird: Do what? Cunningham: 125,000 will go into capitol improvements. Bird: Good. De Weerd: That could be drawn when Shari justifies her - Bird: Yes. De Weerd: Okay. Bird: Thank you. Ladies, any more? Kilchenmann: NO. Bird: Listen, this is Ron and I's fourth year, third year putting on a budget. Fourth year, it's got to be our fourth year. The smoothest it's ever went. It is all because of you three ladies. Well, Stacy in turn gives credits to you guys. We'll give all three of you credit. I for one certainly appreciate it. I haven't had to grow one extra greedy hair this year. If Ron and the Mayor keeps on I might have to. Thank Meridian City Council Speciar BUl.J!Jet Workshop Jury 18, 2001 Page 130 of 133 you very much from the bottom of my heart for what you have done and how easy you have made this budget process for us. Kilchenmann: Okay. We'll get all this put into (inaudible). Councilman Anderson are you going to do the presentation? Anderson: You can if you would like. Kilchenmann: It doesn't matter to me. If you want to do this (inaudible). Anderson: I feel fine with you doing it. You've done a great job of putting this together so far. I would just like to say from me personally. I mean this process Keith and I have been so frustrated with it for the three and a half years that we've been on the Council. I have dreaded the budget process every year since the first year. Every year we've gotten a little bit better. But I echo what Keith is saying. This has been the easiest, and we're not completely through it. We've still got he Public Hearing process there. But as far as I mean working with each of the department heads I think you guys have done an outstanding job. Instead off us having to go line item by line item through the budget and do you need $1200.00 for electricity or can you get by on 1,000? It's been great not having to do that and only dealing with the enhancements and replacements. I really like the process that you guys have come up with. I think each year as we do this, we'll get better at it and keep the department heads on track because they like to stray from it if they can. If you keep them doing it according to how you want it done then it's going to make it a lot easier for future Council people. If it wasn't just all the time commitment on the Council right now, you've even made think about gees that might not be that bad to be on the Council now. I appreciate the work that you've done. Would it be possible then that we could give you back our budget books? Then as you update these numbers that you could put those back in the books for us. Then we would have the most current numbers. Kilchenmann: (inaud ible) Bird: Do you want us to write our name in them? Anderson: We can just write our name on the front cover on that slip in? Corrie: I would like to say one thing. No, I'm going to say two things. One is- De Weerd: Okay, I was going to count. Corrie: Thank you. I've been at this for ten years now. It's (inaudible) for me. I didn't look forward to many of those because we sat here and tried to figure and re-figure. We all sat and then we had to refigure again. So, I'm not going to rehash what they said. Again you've made a professional thing out of this than we've ever had before. I thank you for that. I'm having a senior moment here. I Meridian City Council Special BU(J~et Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 131 of 133 forgot what the heck the second one was. Anyway, I thank the Council for what they are doing here and putting their time in. [ realize that you don't do it for them money but believe me the people are looking at the Council. They're seeing how much they're doing. They're doing more every year. I want to just say thank you to the Council for putting the time in. it's been a great Council to work with. Thank you guys again. We'll just continue to keep working. I would like to see in the future possibly working on the two year rotation basis very similar to Boise. Then working out the two three five year. Makes it even that much easier for you as well as the Council. Thank you very much. Bird: I agree with you on that Mayor. De Weerd: Now the baby can speak. I've been here one year. Last year was the ugliest thing I've ever been in involved in. I've done university budgets and I've done budgets in small business and that had to have been the most depressing experience I've ever had. I think I can even speak for several of the department heads that I've spoke to during this process. They have really appreciated how this process has gone this year. They look forward to next year after we have some strategic planning under our belts and we have goals and we set our budget with those goals in mind. I just can't tell you enough how much I have appreciated this. We've invested two days. I think last year we invested a good week. Bird: Probably a month - De Weerd: [ mean, total. This has just been phenomenal. Kilchenmann: You are a lot more cooperative than the state legislature. De Weerd: Thanks. Bird: There isn't as many of us. Anderson: Thank you very much. Bird: Have you adjourned us Mayor? Corrie: Okay. Berg: I just want to make a (inaudible). Corrie: Go ahead. Berg: Looking at our schedule, are we going to try to have a tentative budget for the Council to adopt next Tuesday? ( Meridian City Council Special Buoget Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 132 of 133 Kilchenmann: No. Berg: We have the --. I've got to get it advertised in the paper, the 6th of August. Kilchenmann: We have to close the month. (inaudible) Bird: Can we come in the 31st on a special meeting. (inaudible). Can we do that? Corrie: Yes, because that would have been a P&Z and Council and they don't have enough people so we could have a special meeting on the 31st, adopt the tentative budget and do it all at one time. Does that give you enough time? Bird: Will that give Will time to get it published? Corrie: This is the 18th? One, --. When do you have to have it in to get it in the paper by the --? You have to have it a week ahead of time Will? Berg: I have to have it Tuesday at noon on the th. Can we have a special meeting on the 6th? That would take a few minutes. Bird: Would that give you enough time Will? Berg: Yes because I would hope that we would have the tentative budget almost in the format that it's going to be advertised so you can approve. The idea is that you need to approve a tentative budget so that they have something to present to the people and we can publish. Corrie: We can have it the 6th and then have our regular meeting the 8th. (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Berg: Maybe have it at like 5:00, 5:30 or something. Bird: 5:30 right after work (inaudible). Berg: Is that okay? Would that work out for you and give you enough time? Cunningham: Yes, Berg: I just don't want to lose any more time because we've got to get it advertised. Corrie: Okay. De Weerd: What date are we talking about? Meridian City Council Special Buuget Workshop July 18, 2001 Page 133 of 133 (inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Berg: Monday August 6th at 5:30. Is that best for you? 5:00? Corrie: 5:30. Berg: 5:30? Okay. Thank you. Corrie: I'll entertain a motion to adjourn the special meeting. Anderson: So moved. Corrie: Second? All those in favor say aye. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES MEETING ADJOURNED AT 3:10 P.M. (TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS) APPROVED: 2 /2b/~2- DATE APPROVED cII~jL&,~ WILLIAM G. BERG, J ., CI Y CLERK February 15. 2002 MERIDIAN CITY COUNCil MEETING APPLICANT February 19 J 2002 ITEM NO. 3~A REQUEST Approve minutes of July 17,2001 City Council Special Budget Meeting AGENCY COMMENTS CITY CLERK: CITY ENGINEER: CITY PLANNING DIRECTOR: CITY ATTORNEY CITY POLICE DEPT: CITY FIRE DEPT: CITY BUilDING DEPT: CITY WATER DEPT: CITY SEWER DEPT: MERIDIAN SCHOOL DISTRICT: MERIDIAN POST OFFICE: ADA COUNTY HIGHWAY DISTRICT: SANITARY SERVICE COMPANY CENTRAL DISTRICT HEALTH: NAMPA MERIDIAN IRRIGATION: SElTLERS IRRIGATION: IDAHO POWER: US WEST: INTERMOUNTAIN GAS: BUREAU OF RECLAMATION: OTHER: ~ UJrr ,\ ~~ .- l L f'1 1v~ ~/ j01 (JIb Contacted: Date: Phone: Materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of MeridIan. Meridian City Council Special Budaet Workshop Julv 17. 2001 The Special Workshop of the Meridian City Council was opened at 8:05 A.M. on Tuesday, July 17,2001, by Mayor Robert Corrie. Members Present: Robert Corrie, Ron Anderson, Tammy de Weerd, and Keith Bird. Members Absent: Cherie McCandless. Others Present: Janice Smith, Stacy Kilchenmann, Reta Cunningham, and Will Berg. Corrie: We'll open at 8:05 the Special Workshop of the Meridian City Council to receive Preliminary Budget Representations and Presentations of each of the specific departments of the city. The first will be Parks Department and we'll -- shall we start with this? Stacy? Kilchenmann: Mayor and Council. Berg: You need to get the microphone. Anderson: She's pretty loud. I can hear her (inaudible). Kilchenmann: I'm going to give you just a brief overview of the process and what we expect to accomplish today. What we did is, and I have to thank Reta Cunningham because she really jumped in with both feet and got a lot accomplished. I wouldn't have been able to do it without her. What we did is we worked with each department to develop what we called a base budget, which are just their standard operating monies that they need to continue the same level of service that they have today. We gave you a draft of that, which of course increased since you got the draft. We really kind of poured through that with a fine-toothed comb. We looked at all the transactions. We sat down with departments two or three times and questioned them unmercifully. I think we have a pretty sound base we can start FY 2002 with. Then, we asked them to go through and choose those things that they felt they needed to take care of problems in their department or to start new programs in their department. J think the underlying theme for the city was the problem and you can call it the opportunity is growth. I think if you look as you hear each department those are pretty much the objectives that they were addressing was how to deal with growth. They turned those in and we went back and I questioned them. That met with different responses but I think everybody jumped on the bandwagon and understood the need to really document and justify what they asked for. So, I hope you'll continue that theme and you'll question everybody. I think they're ready and they have documentation and they can answer your questions. We kind of pared some of those down in the initial sweep. I think everybody, Meridian City Council Special Bhuget Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 2 of 136 especially in the general fund understands that we are right now about, their requests are two million dollars more than the money we have available. I think they all know that, that there's going to have to be some budget. So that's why we asked them to prioritize their requests and present them to you in the order of the most, the thing that they feel that they need to most. Are there any questions about that process that we followed? Anderson: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Anderson. Anderson: Stacy, I just had one on, like the employee benefits. How confident are you with the numbers that we have in there for PERSI and the insurance and those types of things? Do we have firm numbers from all of those people as far as what the increases are going to be? Kilchenmann: Mayor, Councilman Anderson. The PERSI number, that's firm. The insurance is not because initial number we got from Human Resources was I think 18 percent. Now they're saying well it could be up to 40, 45 percent. We ended up putting 25 percent increase in there and what we'll probably have to do is if it actually does come through at 45 percent, the Benefit Committee will need to look at changing the employee participation so we can, you know, we can come up and meet that. So, the city doesn't take the full 45 percent. Anderson: Okay. How about, like ICRMP and those? Are those pretty solid numbers for insurance on automobiles, buildings? Kilchenmann: I think those are, yes. Anderson: Okay. Thank you. Corrie: Okay, if the Council is okay with this, I'll do away with the formality of going through the chair for the Council people. They can ask questions and as far - unless it gets out of hand which I don't think it will we don't need to do that. We conserve time a little bit. We can do that (inaudible) Bird: If that's okay with you. Corrie: That'll be fine. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Yes. De Weerd: Stacy, in the funds that are left over from the budget, the unallocated funds, where are we at? We're still at 1.5 million at this point? Meridian City Council Special B\.ouget Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 3 of 136 Kilchenmann: Yes. De Weerd: That is left over for all of the departments in the general fund? Kilchenmann: Yes. Corrie: Tom. If there are no more questions, we'll - Kuntz: Mayor and Council before we start I guess I'd introduce and I think most of the Council members know them. On my left, our Recreations Superintendent Catrina Thomas who has been doing a wonderful job in building our program. It's doubled in revenue and size in the last year. Then on my right is Elroy Huff who's our Parks Superintendent also has been doing a fantastic job in juggling all the different projects as well as staff and day-to-day maintenance. Both of those actively participated in putting our budget together and are here to present and answer questions pertaining to their different budgets they're responsible for. I guess where I would like to start, and if there's a different order or different way that we want to go about this, please let me know. I've handed out two documents today. One is cream colored. It starts with our Parks and Recreation goals from last year, 2000 to 2001. I'd like to briefly go through that. On the backside of that page are our goals for this coming year, 2001,2002. After that I would like to follow up with the second handout you've got, or received, which was the recreation program participate and revenue report. In my meeting with our Council Liaison, Council Member de Weerd, she felt it was important that we highlighted the fact that our revenue has increased substantially over the last couple years as well as our participation rate. And that that revenue has a direct bearing on our ability to pay for the increases in our recreation programming which we are requesting this year. With that, I'll briefly touch on, and I know you just received this information this morning and I will not go through it item by item because we only have one hour. But, we'll possibly highlight just a few things on the goals from last year and then the goals coming up this year. With that, the large items that we have completed to date for this year, the automated sprinkling system at Storey Park is complete. We had a few minor glitches that we are continue to work out. We have architects and final design and bid specifications being prepared as we speak for the Skate Park, which is not at Meridian Middle School but at Tully Park. We have a design being finished up for Phase 1 at Chateau Park. We have a Construction Agreement that's being reviewed by the contractor for Bear Creek Park and of course the design being worked on for the 56 acre park. We have an architect who is working on the Master Plan for Storey Park and the surveying of that park which has never been done officially over the last 50 years, is being completed as we speak. Construction of Phase 2 of Generations Plaza is finished. Five Mile Creek Pathway is 99 percent complete with the opening scheduled for this Thursday morning at 11 :00 A.M. We have a Pathway Committee who is finishing up their work and will have a recommendation to us and the Parks Commission within the ( Meridian City Council Special Bt.....!Jet Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 4 of 136 next 30 days. The volleyball equipment, the standers have been finished up and we're purchasing the nets and balls that will go into kits that will be rented out to the public. Goals that we look to complete by this summer, late summer or fall, we are going to dig up one of the downtown street trees that is busting out of it's containment area to figure out what that's going to cost us on a regular basis. We plan on installing a new sign at Tully Park and a new sign at Storey Park before the end of this fiscal year. Our Parks Superintendent is working on a Tree Ordinance that will be brought to Council this fall so we can apply for Tree City USA Status. We'll start construction on Phase 1 of Chateau and Bear Creek Park this summer and fall. And the Skate Park facility will also start in September. We are working on -- we have the Ada County Ordinance that will allow us to collect impact fees in our impact area and we're revising Boise's and hope to submit that to you within the next 30 days. We've re-established our Impact Fee Committee and we'll be meeting with them to recommend raising our impact fees. We'll have a Capitol Improvement Plan that will be part of our action plan, which will be brought before the Council within the next 30 days. Items to be carried over, and I won't go through those because we actually carried them over to the back of that sheet. You can turn the page. The items listed on this page are all reflected under capitol budget requests. One is to partner with the chamber to expand the restroom at the Visitor's Center at Storey Park. They have submitted a revised plan with the expansion coming out the front of the building to the south. We've looked at it. It looks like a good solution to their problem of not being able to build over the top of the Nampa Meridian Irrigation line. We're requesting money to purchase a large mower that will allow us to go to a mowing crew. The mower would mow a 16-foot swath. With the addition of the 56 acres and Bear Creek, it will cut down substantially on our, the amount of time we spend mowing. We're asking to replace a used mower and a used truck with a new mower and a used vehicle. We're asking to add a Seasonal Grounds Keeper, an 8-month position to keep track with the additional new 45 acres that we will be responsible for. We're assuming and we don't know this for a fact, but we're probably going to be responsible for the grounds and landscape grounds around the new police station. But that hasn't been discussed but we're assuming. The need for this person really is not only for the additional new park acreage but also we're finding that we're responsible for additional outlying areas. The new Ten Mile Fire Station which does not take a lot of time but we're responsible for that. The new fire station on Franklin Road, we're maintaining that. The new police station will be added to that. The new Five Mile Creek Pathway, which will not be turf maintenance but will require bare ground maintenance as far as spraying and that type of thing. We've got acreage out by the new high school that is not going to be developed probably for a couple of years and we need to bare ground manage that. We'll have some additional property at the 58 acres that we'll have to bare ground manage. So, we're finding that its not only the new park acreage that we're having to be responsible for but the off site areas. We'd like to asphalt a portion of the shop area at Bower Street to alleviate the mud and the dust problem that we experience from season to season. We'd like to start purchasing the bleachers for the spectators at Bear Meridian City Council Special Buuget Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 5 of 136 Creek softball fields. We'd like to buy two sets of those. Start with two versus four. We'd like to hire a Landscape Architect and we're hoping to get this done pro bono to start on the design, concept for the Veteran's Memorial at Storey Park so the Veteran's can start raising money for that facility. Last year we asked to hire a consultant to do a community center feasibility study and we're coming back with that this year. Then of course, start the construction of the 58 acres, finish up Chateau Park and the skate facility. Start to purchase some new ground and continue to work with Planning and Zoning and developers to build pathways. Then work with developers to acquire new land, possibly in exchange for impact fees so we know we don't have a lot of money to use for land acquisition. I'll stand for any questions on those two pages. Bird: Tom, in your goals, replace a used mower and a half-ton truck. What's the used mower that's going, what size used mower are you wanting to replace? When you're buying a big one that's supposed to solve the problem? Huff: Council member Bird the large mower will take care of the overall acreage and the open larger spaces. The one that I'm replacing the one I'm requesting to replace that older one is a 1987 mower. It's got about 2,000 hours in it. I can't use it. I use it for kind of a backup but I'm - sometimes I get to where I need to use it more but it's not that healthy. So if I trade that one out and get a new one that new one will do some terrain - some of the terrain that we have now such as the water tank and a couple of other area we've got coming on are not going to be very level. That newer mower will handle those better than some of the other ones I had. Then I'll take one of my older ones and put it a little more of a backup and just rotate it. Bird: Okay you've got - as I recall we've got two or three of the big mowers now. Of the - I call them big compared to what I'm used to mowing with. Huff: I got the two - Bird: -- you've got two of the big ones now and this large mower that's going to cut the 14-foot swath will - and you still need to keep those two to go around the tight areas? Huff: What it enables me to do if I keep the present level I have and I have the one what it enables me to do is to not haul them all over the place all the time. I can stop doing that and leave those smaller mid-size ones at each park so I don't haul them so much and I just rode the big one. Bird: How much - just a question. On that large one that's going to cut the 13- foot swath at Storey Park where are you going to be able to use that? Huff: The decks work up and down independently and you don't have to have them all down at once to take a large area. It will let you go in a little bit smaller Meridian City Council Special Buuget Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 6 of 136 but you just can't trim with it. You can't get the small areas (inaudible) all the baseball fields and in between in the outfields and all of those areas up on the (inaudible). You can get probably- Bird: -- so one side does come up and lock up? Huff: And you can run with both of them up and run the middle deck some things like that. So you gain about 80 - you probably get about 85 percent of it. Then you basically turn your other smaller mowers into trim mowers but right now I'm using the devil out of those so what it would do is enable me to use those less. So I won't do near the wear and tear on what I'm getting now. Bird: And what you'll do with the smaller mowers now is you'll put one at Tully and one at Storey and just leave them there. Huff: Yes they will be more dedicated than they are now. That will enable me to not put near the hours on them that I'm putting on them now. Bird: Which is the half-ton truck? Which half-ton truck? Huff: On that one we want to replace the 79 Ford that we have out there that we use for lots of different things throughout the year. I'm continually having to put money into that particular pickup to keep it up to a certain (inaudible). Bird: How many trucks have you got right now in your flee? Huff: I think Tom might have a - Bird: -- I didn't see it in there but I could have missed it. Is it - I missed it then. Huff: If you count recreation and - Bird: -- I'm counting the- Huff: -- I have 10. Anyways I'm just requesting to replace one not add one. Bird: How many miles does that 79 have on it? Huff: About 136 thousand. Bird: And how often is it used? Huff: Sometimes it will be a day or so it won't be but it's used every week. Bird: What kind of trips does it take? From park to park or from here to Mountain Home? ( Meridian City Council Special BuugetWorkshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 7 of 136 Huff: No, park to park. Bird: Could you get by one year with it? Could you keep it another year? Huff: If the budget rates I'll do it. Bird: I mean you know 136 thousand miles isn't much on a truck. Huff: I don't it's just - it's what they get beat up and go through it's not their particular age or (inaudible). It's a - I brought it back a little ways. I'm just looking for something that may be a little bit more (inaudible) for me that has a different bed on it so things like that that makes it a little - Bird: -- what's this got just a standard half-ton bed? Six foot bed? Huff: The old one does yes. Bird: And what do you want you want a half-ton with a flat bed? Huff: It comes with a bed that's already constructed, an aluminum bed with sides that go up and down. It gives you more - Bird: -- it's something like out and J and J Auto? Huff: Yes something like that. Bird: And those are half-tons? Huff: Yes. Bird: How much are they running? Huff: About ten and a half. Kuntz: Council member Bird just to add real briefly. We purchased one of those from J and J two years ago, beefed up the shocks on it and ran that with our outlying mowers. It turned out to be so successful and versatile as far as loading bark chips and topsoil and those types of things that J and J had a second one, which he's had now for a year and hasn't sold it. Originally they were 13,000 he's come down to 11,500 and then he would give us 1,000 dollars trade-in on our 79 Ford. Our purchase price would be 10,500 on the vehicle. Bird: Okay. ( Meridian City Council Special Buuget Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 8 of 136 Anderson: Oh, my other question. When do you anticipate the 56-acre Park and Bear Creek coming online to the point where you would be mowing them? We just heard at the last Council meeting that maybe we were talking about next year somewhere around June completion and then we were talking about a fall completion. When are we talking about bringing those parks online? Kuntz: As far as the 58 acre site the timeline that we looked at yesterday with Mr. Koga from The Land Group is to actually go out to bid in November, December and start construction in February or March to have completion by July or August. I'm recommending August just so we don't get people on there too soon which means we technically would not be mowing that site until Fall at the earliest Anderson: How about Bear Creek? Kuntz: Bear Creek, we're hoping to have that planted this fall, early fall and mowing that you know maybe by late fall once and probably realistically early Spring. The one goal that I didn't put on there that we're still hoping to accomplish this year though is to get Bear Creek going now and especially get those softball fields built 80 percent because we would really like to move Catrina's softball program that doubled in size to Bear Creek effective in the spring. So to answer your question Bear Creek would be (inaudible) starting probably in the spring. Anderson: Bear Creek is how many acres? Kuntz: 18. Anderson: 18, and your goals are you mentioned and move towards a mowing crew. What does that mean? Does that mean hiring somebody or taking your existing employees and just having them do certain days where they mow or what does that mean? Huff: Council member Anderson I've already moved our crewing to that to prepare them for when the time that we would have to make that change. I made that change already this year and the restructuring of how we do our stuff. What it basically is, is right now if we go to one of the parks I take three mowers and try to get it done with those by noon. So I'm using three guys, three rigs and everything to try and get done so we can go onto our other things. If we don't do it that way then we're out there all day or a day and a half when we can do it in three and four if we gang up on it When I bring the big mower on it will do most of that work with one person. We'll use one other guy to do the trim work and a guy to do the weed eating then we get done out of that a lot faster. That's kind of where I'm driving to. ( Meridian City Council Special BiJuget Workshop July 17,2001 Pg. 9 of 136 Anderson: So if I'm hearing Tom correct really in affect during this next fiscal year we would only be mowing an additional 18 acres in Bear Creek for next summer and that's where we would use this bigger mower. It almost seems to me like until the 56 acre Park came on board and Bear Creek was full time through the fiscal year then we're almost a year ahead a time in requesting this larger mower. Huff: I see- Anderson: -- was (inaudible) that we could get by for the four months next summer with the mowers that we have. Huff: See I'm in a situation where as soon as Bear Creek comes on and Chateau, which I think, will come on maybe before those or about the same time as Bear Creek so as soon as I add 25 then I'm just stuck. What I'll do from that point is I'll just run those smaller mowers to death in a pretty quick time. It's a matter of just getting it about the time that I actually need it. I can get through the rest of this summer I think fine but sometime during the course of next year probably about spring is probably when I'm going to need it. I'm thinking April, Mayor June. That's when I expect the acreage to increase to the point to where keeping up with it will be so full time I won't be doing it. I would have to dedicate too much of my employee force to that one thing once I gain another 25. Then of course the 56 acre portion of that 18 or 20 whether we develop there that would come on a little bit later. I expect later in the summer of fall excuse me. Anderson: But even this larger mower you're still going to tie up two or three crew members because you indicated that it's not going to trim around trees and the smaller stuff so you're still going to do a mowing crew even with that that would go out and take care of an entire park at one time is that correct? Huff: Once I make that change to the larger mower we will have the one person on that and then I'll leave those other mowers dedicated. Those guys that I have dedicated to do a certain amount of work in those parks will do that trim work. That will change my crew a little bit. I'll still have a crew that does all of the little areas but I won't have - I won't run a crew quite as big as I'm running it now. I'll disburse it again in a little different way than I have it now. Bird: Ron, if you go up and watch them mow I'm 100 percent behind a large mower even existing I think it would save time right now. Now that you explained to me that we can - we're not cutting one full 14-foot swath that we can get the others. I think that the large mower is needed Ron, I think it will save us money in the long run in personnel. It right now - to do Storey Park and I think they can get it done in about one day is that right. There are three or four guys working eight hours a day to get Storey done where with that other one if you could - if you cut that down to two men you've saved some money on it. ( Meridian City Council Special BuogetWorkshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 10 of 136 Huff: The big mower what it will take and it's the way it's constructed. It will service for a long time and it will take quite a lot of punishment. Your other mowers, your smaller mowers after awhile they take their punishment and almost every mower - I've got one that's two years old everything else I've got is five, six or seven and then the one that I was wanting to replace is 1987 or 6 so I see your - appreciate your comments on that I really do. We're just trying to disburse everybody and save on the manpower. That machine will do all of those things with one person on it but you don't have to payout - you don't have to hire somebody else and payout all of this extra insurance, Workman's Camp, retirement and all of that stuff. Anderson: What's the life expectancy on one of these big mowers? Huff: If you take good care of them I expect we can run 10 seasons with it. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor I'm sorry. Corrie: That's okay go ahead. De Weerd: I just wanted some clarification I would like to get a little structure to this. If we could Will can we get a flip chart so that maybe our Department Heads can put up and prioritize their requests so that we can actually see them. Also, Stacy on the 1.5 million dollars of unallocated money that we have left, that includes park impact fees that can only be used for park acquisition or development so in essence we really don't have 1.5 million dollars do we? Kilchenmann: You're right. De Weerd: Probably, a flip chart would be- Bird: The impact fees I think is already allocated in (inaudible). De Weerd: They cannot (inaudible). Bird: I know it can't but (inaudible) shown as revenue it's probably in the 1.5 you're right. We've got about 400,000 in there. Kilchenmann: Councilman you're right, you are correct. De Weerd: So we're not working with 1.5 million dollars we're actually working with 1.1? Kilchenmann: Correct but you can take the 400,000 dollars and dedicate it towards park's capital improvements. So in essence reducing what they're asking for by the 400,000. ( Meridian City Council Special 8~dget Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 11 of 136 De Weerd: Well yes I was just trying to get the over view on the whole picture in the general fund we've been looking at 1.5. We're incorrect in looking at that it's really 1.1. Any of their replacements or personnel operational type of requests would be out of the 1.1? Kilchenmann: Correct. Corrie: Tom this is very minor but it's just a housekeeping thing. On your base budget at shop supplies reduction 500 due to line item 2,500 that should be about 3,500 if you're asking for 4,000 is that correct? Kuntz: Yes sir. Corrie: Okay just a very minor thing but you're 1 ,000 taken off your top line. Kuntz: It seems a little bit natural if maybe we couldn't jump into that last page. I kind of hate to super see the recreation report but I think we'll go ahead and jump into that. Anderson: The page you were talking about - the last page on your handout that you - Kuntz: -- yes sir in my handout. De Weerd: In color the off white type of- Kuntz: We knew going in that there was - that the items that we requested were not totally going to be funded after we saw the booklets and to see city wide what money the accounts had to work with. This is our first attempt at items that - reductions that we would recommend making effective today in our budget. We've gone through and eliminated approximately 3,500 dollars from our base budget and our replacement equipment we've reduced that by 2,300 dollars. Then capital and that's the one I would like to talk about if I could. We've reduced that request from 500 to 350,000 and I would like to explain what that is for. 100,000 of that 350,000 could be used as a match for the playground facility that we have a volunteer group has a conceptual design is planned to start going out and asking for funds from corporate sponsorships. They're estimating that that facility is going to cost about 500,000 dollars. It's a very large one of a kind to the Treasure Valley type of facility that will be having the handicapped in mind although it's really for all abilities. They are also taking on our zero depth water features as possibly raising funds for that also. We anticipate the cost for that facility to be about 100,000. So 100,000 of that 350,000 which we would recommend come from impact fees would be used as seed money for the playground. We could reduce that further and cut that in half and go with the 50,000 seed money startup which would lower that to 300. The 250,000 would be used to complete Phase 1 of the 58 acre Park. If you'll turn back to the { Meridian City Council Special Buoget Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 12 of 136 second sheet in this handout it has a preliminary cost estimate and I would call your attention to the right hand column three quarters of the way down where it has a sub total of 1,311,953. Our budget for Phase 1 was 1,370,000 but when you add in the design costs, the irrigation tiling and the construction and design costs and of course the five percent contingency that brings us to 1574. So 200,000 will finish up Phase 1 with the diagram on the back of that cost estimate. I've added an additional 50,000 or I'm requesting an additional 50,000 in Phase 1 to do Option 1 and Option 2. Option 1 is shown on that map that I've attached which is the lawn area that will be used for overflow parking that will give the park a little more of a finished look for Meridian Road so it's contiguous with the asphalt parking. The cost on that is 14,680 or excuse me 31,928 and then also we would like to at least put the perimeter pathway in. Asphalt or excuse me - I guess it does say asphalt. We might be able to reduce that more with just going with a gravel base but that's 14,680. The reason we would like to include that in Phase 1 is to do it after the park has been seeded and rough grated. It really complicates things and tears things up so the minimum we would like to do on that pathway is get it in as far as gravel. Bird: What about asphalt? Kuntz: Well and that would be our preference. Bird: If you don't you come back and tear the lawn up where you're doing it so- Kuntz: -- yes I agree. With those two items what we would be requesting outside the playground equipment from impact fees would be 250,000 dollars to do Phase 1 including Items 1 and 2. Anderson: And why are you requesting more than what the architect has estimated on the project I'm not following with you there? Kuntz: If you go to the 1,311,000 Council member Anderson then you add in the design cost for The Land Group, the cost to tile the existing irrigation lines and the design costs for that plus the (inaudible) they've put in that brings us to 1,574,000 and we have in the budget today 1,370,000. The additional 200,000 would complete what the architect has estimated with those design costs and irrigation tiling. Then the additional 50,000 would pay for the lawn area Option 1 and the asphalt perimeter pathway Option 2. Anderson: I'm still not tracking with you. If I add all of those design costs, the irrigation tile, the five percent contingency, Option 1 and 2 I'm at 1,621,000 dollars and you've got line item request on your page here where you're talking about your reduction that you were requesting 350,000. Why so much more than what the architects estimate is? ( Meridian City Council Special Bll...lJet Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 13 of 136 Kuntz: If you take what we have budgeted this year which is 1,370,000 and add 250,000 that will get us to what the architect is estimating the cost would be. Anderson: For what the entire project or for Phase 1? Kuntz: For Phase 1 of the entire project with Option 1 and 2. I have added an additional 100,000 for seed money to build the adventure land - I can't remember the title but the playground structure, which is not in here. So that's what - that brings us to 350 but we could certainly back that off if we needed to. So I've asked for the additional 100,000 for seed money to build that 500,000 dollar piece of playground equipment that the volunteer committee's going to be raising corporate funds for. Anderson: Where is the documentation or the paper that shows us that the architect's estimate is 350? The only thing I have is this piece of paper that says it's 1.9. Is there something else that I'm missing that shows some additional costs? Kuntz: Let me go through it one more time. Anderson: You better go through it three or four times because I'm not getting 350,000. Kuntz: Okay if you take on that sheet - if you take the 1,574,000, you add to that Options 1 and 2, which would bring you to- Anderson: -- 1,621,358. Kuntz: Okay and if you take what we have budgeted this year which was 1,370,000 and add 250,000. Anderson: So you're requesting to carry over the 1.3 million 70 and then you want to add 250 to it? Kunz: Correct. De Weerd: 251,358,035 or 69. Bird: 250. De Weerd: Well that's what all of that told. Then some seed money for the playground. Bird: 100,000. Anderson: 100,000 in seed money that's some pretty good seed. ( Meridian City Council Special 8uuget Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 14 of 136 Bird: That's good seed money. How much of that - half a million dollars Tom is that the estimated cost? Kuntz: Yes sir. Bird: And we're going to put in that much seed money to start it? Kuntz: Again it's just a suggestion Council member Bird. Bird: Right. Anderson: That's darn near half the cost of it in seed money. Bird: Well not half but it's 20 percent. Kuntz: (Inaudible) one fifth of the cost. That's fine I mean that- Bird: -- I would say that's down and I think that those people could go out and should have no problem raising a half a million dollars in funds, in corporate funds. Kuntz: Well I think if anything we could throw towards it to show them that we're sincere about making this happen. I think 50,000 would be - Bird: -- weill think we're showing pretty sincere when we're dedicating ground to it that we paid money for. De Weerd: And the site preparation. Now on this phasing you're only proposing half of that playground area? Did you bring a copy of that playground design with you? Kuntz: It was on that board - Bird: -- I think that - it's going right in here. De Weerd: Well the stuff below that is all part of their cost estimate for the funds you're raising isn't that - Bird: -- just point it out on that map. Kuntz: Yes I had a copy attached- Bird: -- we saw it last Tuesday. Kuntz: It's this area and then the well shaped area is the water feature. ( Meridian City Council Special Buuget Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 15 of 136 De Weerd: So that's not being done in this first phase? Kuntz: (Inaudible) when the money's raised. De Weerd: Right and so what is the cost of that first initial part of it? Kuntz: Of this? De Weerd: Of their play area of their playground equipment? You gave us the total cost of half a million. Kuntz: (Inaudible) that we come in and build the whole thing at once. De Weerd: Okay. Bird: Have you given them a time limit Tom to raise the money and get back to you so that you can get this implemented in Phase 2, Phase 3 - Kuntz: -- not at this point we haven't. They are actually working with the - The Land Group is actually doing the design on the facility (inaudible). Bird: At whose expense ours or are they donating it? Kuntz: No, they are donating it. De Weerd: They are donating that. So that's the whole play area outside of the first phase okay. Kuntz: But we are making sure that in utilities, electric water, and drainage from this system are all being included in Phase 1. Bird: It better be. The whole park's being done that way and then all of the utilities are being put in at this Phase 1 point for the whole park right? Kuntz: Yes sir. Bird: Okay, that's the way I understood it. Kuntz: And it's (inaudible) planning conceptual for if (inaudible) it's all being designed - Bird: -- so you need to get the power to it. Meridian City Council Special BLJu!Jet Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 16 of 136 Kuntz: (Inaudible) the drainage problems that we're going to have in the future parking lots. The drainage of this area that's all being considered is where the pond's located. De Weerd: So, can we at this point ask a prioritized list of your replacement and enhancement funds over and above your base budget? Bird: Do you want to list your priority of what you want over and above your base budget? Anderson: I have a question. Have you already spent part of the 1.3 million? I mean The Land Group has been doing design work and you tiled that ditch along the front. Have you already spent part of that this year? Kuntz: A very small amount. Bird: How much will you have done by October 1st? How much will be spent? Now I know that 82,000 that don't come at the end you're paying them monthly as they design. How much of that is being spent out of that 1.370 by the end of the month or by the end of the fiscal year? Kuntz: We would hope to have the tiling of the ditch done and we will move ahead with that as soon as the water is out of the irrigation system. That's 115,000 with the design and it's already been designed once. 115 and then I don't know if it's fair to say half of the 85 from The Land Group would be paid out by then. I would estimate that. Bird: How much have we paid up to this point Tom? Ku ntz: Pardon me? Bird: How much have we paid out up to this point to The Land Group? Kuntz: I believe about 10,000 dollars is all - pardon me 15. Bird: 15, I can see it probably being - because once it's designed and it's supposed to be completely designed by October 1 sl or this first phase. Once it's designed 80 percent of their work is done so you're going to get billed for 60,000 dollars or so, so we're going to payout 60,000 there and we should pay all of the 115 which these are conceptual estimates - ***End Of Side One*** Bird: -- it might not come in at 115 it might come in at 110, it might come in at 100 and it might come in at 130 - Meridian City Council Special BlJuget Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 17 of 136 Kuntz: -- right. Bird: So we don't really know but we will be paying out some so we - the full carry over is not 1.370. Kuntz: No, sir. De Weerd: And he doesn't have that on there. Kuntz: No but that will be - the carry over in my understanding will be adjusted as we get down to the end of the year. Bird: Yes that would be no problem doing that. Anderson: Well it will be adjusted but when we're trying to figure out how much additional funds to add to it that's why we kind of need to do a projection of how much of that will be (inaudible). Kuntz: Well but the big picture is 1.5 or whatever as far as whether we're carrying money over or adding money to it. It doesn't matter whether it's this fiscal year or next fiscal year the bottom line is we're not going to payout any more than the 1.5. Anderson: It does make a difference. Bird: It does make a difference. Anderson: Because it adds more money to your budget next year if you didn't spend - if you spent that amount this year then affect you're going to have more fund balance that you think that is yours to use next year when you didn't need that because you spent it this year. Kuntz: I see what you're saying but the solution to that problem is not to spend it. Anderson: The solution to that is to tell you it's not available to you. You have x amount for the project and just because there's extra money in there at the end of the year when you finish project doesn't mean you have it for something because it wasn't planned for. Kuntz: Yes sir. De Weerd: Can you get an estimate from The Land Group? Just tell them that you need to know what you will expend to them because they are going to be your only expense at this point. Bird: No the tiling is. Meridian City Council Special BUuget Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 18 of 136 Kuntz: The tiling is also. Bird: The tiling is too. De Weerd: Well if you can get estimates and let Stacy know so we know what we're talking about in carry forward. Bird: He's got an estimate on the tiling already at 115. Kuntz: Yes. Bird: So it has to be done by- De Weerd: -- before October 1st? Bird: It should be done by October 1st shouldn't it Tom? Shouldn't it I mean that's the only time - Anderson: -- is the water shut off? Bird: Yes the water's shut off, the water shut off before that. The water's probably shut off already. De Weerd: Can't - no it's not. Can you get those answers so we can add that to our figures? Kuntz: Sure. De Weerd: That water goes to other farmers. Bird: Yes and if we can't stop (inaudible). De Weerd: Can you come up here and please prioritize your requests? Kuntz: Sure. While I'm doing that so I don't waste a lot of your time I guess I wander if we could start into the recreation program (inaudible) report or do you want to write stuff up there or do you feel like it's necessary or not necessary? I guess it's very important to us that the Council's aware of the 20,000 dollar one year increase in revenue as well as participation. If you don't think it's necessary to go through that packet but there's some very valuable information in that packet and I know Catrina's spent some time putting that together. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor, Tom I realize that Catrina has done a fantastic job with that I mentioned that to here before the session started. If you could give us a brief overview Catrina. I think you've given us something that's very ( Meridian City Council Special BlIu\Jet Workshop July 17,2001 Pg. 19 of 136 comprehensive and probably doesn't demand too much explanation but I see that the gap between your revenues and your expenditures are closing every year so that's very exciting. Thomas: Yes it is. Basically it's pretty self-explanatory all of the graphs and the pictures help a lot. Basically our participation is grown which in turn has increased our revenue. Last year our projected revenue was - for this fiscal year was 35,000. Currently as of June's income we were at 55,643 so we're above what our projective is for this fiscal year and we expect to exceed it next year. We've also had requests about how we do our pricing for our classes and for our sports. I put a couple of class budgets in there to kind of give you an idea of where we're add where we show our profit at. For our Arts and Crafts for this year the way we figure out the prices is we take the instructor (inaudible) plus the supplies, multiply them by .20 which is our administrative fee which covers costs for mailings, sales tax and all of our office work that goes in entails in that. Then we take the total cost, divide it by the number of participants we need to meet that total cost. For example, we expected our instructor wages to be about 120 dollars for Arts and Crafts class per week and then about 80 dollars for supplies. Multiply that by the 20 percent and that gives a total cost of 240 dollars. That divided by six - a minimum of six participants which is what the average is for a class like that. It comes to 40 dollars per participant. In - you can kind of see we do a summer overview of what we expect our classes to be for Arts and Crafts. It shows a profit of 544 and the reason why the profit is a little bit larger is for example the first two weeks we had 10 participants rather than six so that reduces our expenses. We only need one instructor for that. Then the rest is just more of a breakdown of all the different classes. Bird: Council I would report that I asked Tom to give me a print out on our recreation basketball program this year. Very finely run program and it came out on top. That's - as it grows the profits will become better because your overhead goes down. Your overhead the same whether you have one team or whether you have 20 teams so you've done a great job at that end of it that I'm familiar with so I appreciate it. Thomas: Thank you. Bird: Yes, we'll pretend you did but Tully Skate's going to be on top. De Weerd: Well these are his priorities not yours. Bird: I know that's going so it's got to be done. Kuntz: The skate has a little bit of a variable in that we don't know how much we're going to raise and in time. Bird: You don't actually know what the total price is either. Meridian City Council SpecIal Bl.Iu1Jet Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 20 of 136 Kuntz: Well this is what's happened. We had a downsizing from when they came to you last Tuesday, which was 11,800 square feet. We've had to redesign it down to 10,700 square feet. Bird: How's that compared to Eagle? What is Eagle? Kuntz: Eagle's is 1200. Bird: 12,000? Kuntz: 12,000 I'm sorry. They met with the kids on Friday and the kids were real happy. Bird: And you've got how much budgeted in here Tom? Kuntz: 120. So I - Bird: -- so you've got 24,000 (inaudible)? Kuntz: Weill think we can do that - Bird: -- I do too. Kuntz: (inaudible) kind of hedging a little bit here you know just in case or if the bid comes in a little higher. Once we have our quantities and what we need for the construction we're going to go out and start- Bird: -- when are we having the bids come (inaudible) August 1st? No we can't do that September 15t? So we would have an idea where the bid - before we passed the final budget. I'll tell you I (inaudible) ask for anything on that thing I think we can get it raised. I think we can get it raised if it don't come you know 30 or 40 over. De Weerd: If we don't he's already committing it. Kuntz: Willi need to put- De Weerd: -- if you don't Keith will cover it. Bird: No Keith isn't, no Keith isn't. Kuntz: (Inaudible) part time (inaudible). (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Meridian City Council Special Buaget Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 21 of 136 Kuntz: -- part time recreation, which is 6,000. Part time Park's is below that. De Weerd: So that's your priority list? Kuntz: Yes ma'am. I've added the Chamber restroom into the Storey Park playground (inaudible). 60,000 for the Chamber bathrooms and 120 for that project. Bird: Now you've got - on the playground equipment as I understand Tom we've got 28,000 coming from SW AK. Kuntz: Yes. De Weerd: So that would reduce that number? Kuntz: Well we're not even talking about revenue. Bird: No, no this is expenditure that's what - I'm just getting in my - we've got 28,000 what is the project going to be Tom? Kuntz: 50 for the playground, 120 total but 120 covers taking all - the road out and bring in top soil back in. We'll extend the irrigation system and then we'll include a new well (inaudible). A minimum of 16 new parking stalls in front of where the Chamber building is that will service the Chamber and the playground Bird: -- and that will be asphalted? Kuntz: Yes sir so that's 120 total for that. Bird: But 50 is the playground, the estimated playground? Kuntz: Right. De Weerd: And that's taking out that long road and all of that. Now can you also - do we have a different color of pen? Just astric those that are out of impact fees and what would be out of the 1.1 million dollars that we have to allocate. Kuntz: We can't use impact fees to build on existing parks so the Storey Park facility would be out of - call that general fund is that how you want - Bird: -- yes (inaudible). That's the list of priority as it goes huh? Kuntz: Yes sir. The only thing I haven't put on here is the design services that were for the community center needs assessment and we could use impact fee administrative money for that - on that. 1'- \. Meridian City Council Special Bi.Juget Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 22 of 136 Anderson: Stacy I have a question for you. In the budget book in the green pages where does it show their capital requests for 2002? Is that only on the summary sheet at the start of the book? De Weerd: They're - they follow the green sheets. And you can find it in the budget summary all of the different (inaudible). Kilchenmann : (Inaudible). Anderson: On the budget summary at the start though it doesn't tell you which departments requesting it and if you can't actually tell what the item is. De Weerd: It's right behind your budget in the green and it lists them one sheet by - I'm sorry behind the budget. Not the purple sheet. That would be nice. Anderson: That would be a novel concept. Corrie: Do you got the date - De Weerd: Yes it starts with the blue sheet and then you have the one item at a time. Kuntz: Mayor and Council one thing I would really like to clarify and I hope that we'll have some input before we start blopping these off. The part time recreation because of the way that program has expanded is a very high priority to us. A higher priority than the 8 month parks position. Bird: Tom on that mower, that large mower what do you recommend or do you think we will save in manpower wages? Kuntz: Well actually Elroy and I had this discussion last night because I said if we had to give up the mower or the 8 month position and 11 ,000 dollars what would your preference be. Bird: No seriously. You were telling us Elroy that we would save two men am I not right than what you're using now? Two full time men. Huff: I'm using some of my part time guys on those existing mowers that I have as much as I can. Each day though I do have one full time guy on those mowers - on one of those mowers depending on what park they're in. Actually I'm saving - still dedicating one full time person to that big new mower which I think is a responsible thing to do and then as far as the other guys' I would need less part time help. Bird: 25, 30,000 a year in saved employee time? Meridian City Council Special Bll....~et Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 23 of 136 Huff: Oh yes. Bird: I would say so too. De Weerd: Tom can Tully Park or the Skate Park, can't that be taken out of impact fees? Bird: That can. De Weerd: That's new development and that impact - that park was not established when impact fees were. Kuntz: I would want to check into that for sure but I would say at first glance yes. You want me to change that to a blue astric? De Weerd: Yes. Did you have any left over funds out of the Storey Park irrigation system? Kuntz: We will have Council member de Weerd but we're not ready to come to you with what we're proposing finally for the year end funds. We know that Bear Creek is our number one priority and that is to get those softball fields put into a - but we do anticipate some state savings at Storey Park that could be put towards starting the playground. That money could be carried over. De Weerd: Well I'm particular because we already committed to the 60,000 for the Chamber. Kuntz: Right. De Weerd: And I thought we were committing it out of savings from that irrigation system. Kuntz: But there will be some savings you're accurate we just - getting Bear Creek and getting those softball fields in are very high priority for us. De Weerd: Because your adult program went from 10 teams to 35? Kuntz: Yes. Just one last item, the Community Center Needs Assessment can come out of the administrative component of the impact fees which we have not spent any money of that and there's quite a large balance in that account. I know there is over 80,000. That's just what's in there right now not including the potential of another 40,000 this year. That could come off of the top of that list or the bottom of that list real easily. Then also the design fees can also come out of that administrative fund. Meridian City Council Special Bi.Ju!;let Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 24 of 136 Bird: Tom on that administrative fund what does that cover? Doesn't that cover the collection of it - Kuntz: -- it does but that's- Bird: -- which goes to a - which should be shoveled back into Planning and Zoning or whoever collects the fees it goes to the Treasury Department some of it for their handling of it so it isn't all - the administration fees is not all setting of the that 80,000 setting in the Park's and Recreation Department. My way of thinking is if I read that ordinance and stuff right. Kuntz: Those fees that you're speaking of are very minimal. Bird: I'm not questioning that but it's- Kuntz: -- but you're right some of that needs to go to offset that cost. Bird: Yes. If you consider -- you know if you consider 20 percent which I'm sure she's right at doing that -- is overhead when you're doing your rec fees well I can't see that Planning and Zoning, Building and Treasury can't take - shouldn't be taking 20 percent as their administration cost so that every dollar that comes in, 20 percent of it is going to be divided between those guys and you guys get 80 cents out of it, the parks does. Kuntz: Conferring with Shari Stiles, 20 percent on every dollar would be quite high for the services they provide. Probably 5 percent of that is probably more realistic as far as the time it takes to collect the fees and administer them. Bird: Tom [ don't think - you're probably one of the few departments that's really went down and got your overhead. I don't - I mean it takes time to allocate that money and collect it. It takes time to run it through the books so I don't know. I just want to clarify that that 80,000 aren't all parks according to the ordinance. Kuntz: You bet I agree. I think that administrative money could be used more efficiently than it is now to offset some of these costs, especially design costs and that type of thing. Bird: I agree with you 100 percent. De Weerd: Well for our discussion for tomorrow Janice or Stacy could we get kind of a breakdown of that park impact fee administration - okay thanks Reta. That way we have something to work with tomorrow. Anderson: We ought to move along if we're going to try and stay on this schedule. Meridian City Council Special BtJuget Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 25 of 136 Corrie: Anything else Tom Kuntz: No we just appreciate the time. Bird: Thank you. De Weerd: Thanks Elroy and Catrina. Corrie: Thank you very much we appreciate it. Fire Department you're next on the agenda. Sorry we cut two minutes off of your schedule but we're coming pretty close. Kilchenmann: (Inaudible) De Weerd: She needs more than that. Kilchenmann: But I did leave extra time at the end of the day. Bird: Thank you. Anderson: She can't even explain her budget in five minutes let alone have us ask questions. Bird: Just turn it over. Just flip it over and we'll let Kenny use the other one. We'll keep that. Anderson: Yes we would like to have that sheet to refer back to. Bird: Yes to refer back to. Thank you. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Corrie: The thing is I wanted to talk to him about how we hold the press conferences and everything else so he felt comfortable with the acceptance of the wages. So I said go ahead. He wants to come tonight (inaudible) be just before the agenda. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Corrie: Okay Stacy, (inaudible) is there anything you want to say? De Weerd: Do you want to give the same overview with each department just to overview the process and the unallocated money? Kilchenmann: Mayor and Council with the Fire Department who doesn't have to be first this year but they have to be second. We followed the same procedure. ( Meridian City Council Special Bi.Juget Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 26 of 136 We went through their base. With them we had a new - something different in that we have two stations now. You'll find if you look - if you turn to the fire you'll find a summary in the green sheets of the whole Fire Department and then you'll see that we split it up into Administrative and the two stations. Kenny's not exactly sure how the labor costs will be distributed so we just did it equally between the stations and then as we have some history we will see what that looks like. We just tried to reflect the operating costs of both stations. We think that will be helpful to him when he goes to do a third station he'll have a good handle on how much it costs to operate that station. We developed a base and kind of took out the one time expenses he had when he set up his new station and tried to get down to basic operating. Then he went through and did his enhancements or the items that he would like to add. They want me to remind you that we only have actually 1.1 million dollars to spend for general funds. When you give your presentation concentrate and really let them know the items that are your priorities or that you feel are most important. So with that I'll let Kenny go. Bowers: Thank you Stacy. I handed out a packet to you people, Mayor and Council. The first item is our new mission statement so you can take out your old one and put that one in. Also the next page is just a little bit of history of our Fire Department. You've seen this other times through the year that just tells when the department was formed, how many calls we went on and how many trucks we have. I didn't realize that Stacy was already going to do that on how many trucks and equipment we have. The next page is an organizational chart from the citizens to the Mayor, to the Fire Chief, to the Deputy Chiefs on down to the Captains, Drivers and Fire Fighters. The next page is the organizational chart per by name. Then the next page - in your packet from Stacy she had put in there our goals for the year of 2001. Basically what I put in is just what we were able to accomplish on our goals. Which ones we were able to get done and which ones we were able to work on. At this time do you want to go through some of them or do you just - Mayor do you want to just read them on your own time? Corrie: My preference would be if the Council - that we can read these. We really need some information on your budgeting. Bowers: Okay thank you Mayor. As you can go through the goals there and read them you can see that we have accomplished many of our goals that we have set. We feel very positive and very good that we were able to do that. Then the next page is our goals for 2002. Starting off with the Idaho Surveying and rating and then the last one would be to continue the evaluation from the Emergency Service Consulting Group, the booklet that you guys received from me. That's our goals for 2002 Mayor and Council. I am a little surprised that our Rural Commissioners aren't here today too. I'm not sure there must be a problem or something because they planned on being here. When we get into Meridian City Council Special Buuget Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 27 of 136 the green pages, the combined detail summary. Are there any questions on there that Stacy or myself can answer on the green pages? Bird: Kenneth? Bowers: Yes. Bird: On your overtime wages, your current budget looks like you're projecting the actual for 2001 is going to go over what the budget was. You've increased it by 2,000 dollars but by hiring three full-time Fireman this next fiscal year and having the second station online do you believe the overtime wages are going to stay that high or should they stay that high? Bowers: Mayor Corrie and Councilman Bird if - the big question is if we do not get the three extra Firefighters that we're asking for we will probably be in the same boat as overtime. The reason being is we've got a three-man crew now and if somebody takes off sick, takes off to a class or something we have to bring in overtime. I didn't have any direct figures to write down Keith to work off of. I talked to Stacy and we figured if we could leave it the same - around the same that would give us a very good idea where to shoot from for the next year. I didn't have any figures really to come off of Keith. Bird: Okay thanks Kenny. Corrie: Kenny if we did hire the three would that possibly drop then? Bowers: It possibly could because what we've done now Mayor Corrie and City Council Members is we are not having the people come back to all calls now. If it is a call where we respond two vehicles or more then we allow the Firefighters to come down and stand by. But at this time if they just go out on a medical call or an auto accident where one vehicle rolls we do not have coverage to come back in. The reason being is we have the other station to cover the district. Corrie: Okay thank you. Bird: To follow up on that from the Mayor, Kenny if you hire the three new Firefighters will they just be extras - just work in for people that are off sick and stuff like that? Is that how you plan on doing it or are you putting on another new shift or what? Bowers: Mayor Corrie, City Council Members, Councilmen Bird, the three people at first we would send them into an academy again like we have the others. Once they've gotten out of the academy and become EMT's also they would be just - they would be our regular Firefighters is what they would be. What we would need them for is to fill in like I had said if we've got somebody gone for vacation or sick at either station they can fill in. No, we do not have plans of Meridian City Council Special BUuget Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 28 of 136 starting another shift or anything. If we need to take a truck to Boise to get worked on we can use that person to drive the truck instead of calling somebody in and paying them overtime to do that. I don't want to call them a gopher but they will be just helping us out on every area that we need. Bird: So as [ look at it then they will cut into this overtime pay essentially very much? Bowers: Yes, yes. Bird: Okay, thank you. Bowers: Okay. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor, excuse me Kenny. I guess my question on the increase in the personnel base is 23 percent. Was that a result of renegotiating - or the contract negotiations? Is that why it's increased so much? Bowers: Yes it would be the negotiations yes. Bird: It also shows the three new Firefighters. De Weerd: No. Bird: It doesn't? Bowers: No it does not Mayor and City Council Member. De Weerd: Not in your base. Bowers: Not in the base. That is an enhancement. De Weerd: So you're negotiations are already pretty much reflected in this budget? Bowers: They are yes. We have a contract on the salaries done already we just need to bring it to you guys to sign it. We do know what the salaries will be for everybody in the union. De Weerd: Thank you. Bowers: Thank you. Any other questions on that part then we'll get into enhancements. Would you like to have me go through the enhancements first and then go up and prioritize them or would you just rather me prioritize them right off the bat? ( Meridian City Council Special BOuget Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 29 of 136 Corrie: (Inaudible). Bird: Let's prioritize- (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) De Weerd: I like the guessing game. Bowers: We'll do that. De Weerd: I just like to get down (inaudible). (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Bowers: Our first enhancement would be the opticom. Up in the top right hand - up in the right hand corner where it says request Number 1. Do you see where that's at in the enhancement papers? Okay that's the sheet I'm coming off of, opticom. De Weerd: It's right after the - it's the second page of that section. No, Keith it's right after the - Bowers: -- right after the purple sheet, lavender. De Weerd: Then he has a single sheet for each one after the budget - after the purple sheet. Okay, we're with you. Bowers: Okay. I figured everybody had it like - each department has it that way but we're learning. Opticom, basically we've got three intersections that we would like to do. When they redo the Locust Grove, Ustick intersection that's coming up they keep talking about the - on top of the freeway and Meridian Road we'll be putting a light there. Then one of the Fire Stations either on Franklin Road or Ten Mile. Bird: You've got to get lights there first. Bowers: Excuse me. Bird: You've got to get lights there first. Bowers: We've got to get lights there first yes we do. De Weerd: Now Kenny, do I understand that those can be out of this years budget? Is that what I heard discussed at ACHD? Corrie: You mean the one up at Ten Mile? Meridian City Council Special J~"',Jet Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 30 of 136 De Weerd: Yes. Bowers: Mayor Corrie, City Council Members, Councilman de Weerd, we are looking for some extra money in my budget to put the lights up at Ten Mile at this time. De Weerd: Out of this year's budget? Bowers: Out of this years budget yes. Bird: And do you have the money to put the opticom in at that time Kenneth in this year's budget? Bowers: Yes part of it. Our question is - Councilman Anderson and our Rural Commissioners thought that if we could buy some property this year out of what we've got left in our budget, instead of doing the opticom we would much better buy some property for a station three. Bird: What is the opticom 2,500 a light approximately? Bowers: 2,500 to 3,500 depending on if it's a brand new intersection or if it's an older intersection that needs to be upgraded in the big green traffic boxes. I'm not sure what they're going to do at Locust Grove it will have to be all new there because there isn't any lights there at this time. Bird: And the Ten Mile would be new too so we're looking at probably the 2,500? Bowers: 2,500 to 3,000. Bird: And you don't have enough left over to purchase the ground, put the lights in and put the opticom in? Bowers: Not at this time. Bird: (Inaudible) at that time. Bowers: Not at this time. Anderson: It's going to be an either or either we do the land or we do the one traffic lane. Bird: Weill think you need to do the land (inaudible). Anderson: That's what the Rural Commissioners and myself felt the land had a higher priority - Meridian City Council Special BUuget Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 31 of 136 Bird: -- I think the land had a higher priority than that. Bowers: So that's kind of the reason why we put in the opticom for - Bird: -- but if we could get ACHD, which would be a miracle but - to put in the lights would you have enough left out of your budget to put the opticom system in out there? Would you have the 2,500 after the land purchase, Kenneth this year if we were to get them to put in some lights? Anderson: They would be nodding that line item but- Bowers: Yes in our total budget- Bird: -- well we can transfer line items yes. I would like to see - I think the (inaudible) would be a priority. I also think that we need to get the opticom in out there if we get the lights in. There's no sense in coming back and doing it later paying 1 ,000 dollars for it. Bowers: Mayor Corrie, City Council Members, Councilman Bird, yes we have enough in the opticom capitol outlay by this that I just got from Janice that we would be able to do it this year. Bird: If we could get Ada County Highway District to put the lights in. That's a big if. Corrie: And the cost of it. Bird: What? Corrie: The 80,000? Bird: Weill don't know why they can't do it. That's my personal opinion. They haven't done anything - well we've got our overlay between McMillan and Ustick and Locust Grove and then on Eagle Road I guess they did a mile overlay. De Weerd: So what are the amounts on those Joe? Bowers: The opticom - on the summary you have Joe? Opticom is 10,500. Our next enhancement then would be request Number 5 in your packet there. You need to go back to the fifth page. That would be for three new intra Firefighters. Three new intro Firefighters would be 156,333. That's including their salaries, that's including their training, the academy, that's including their turnout year, the radios, everything to bring them up to get them online. Meridian City Council Special BOuget Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 32 of 136 Bird: Kenneth this is a one time cost on radios and turnout and stuff like that isn't it? So the 52,000 plus that each Firefighters going to cost us then the next year it goes - well but if they come up in rank maybe it don't. They probably will come down to about 45 to 50,000 cost. This is a one-time get them up and running. Bowers: Mayor Corrie, City- ***End Of Side Two*** Bowers: -- four years depending on how much usage they've had. Did they get them into a gas fire, did they get petroleum on them so - and the radios are a little longer than that they're six to seven years. The first year yes you're correct on that. The second year it would come down other than if their salary went up. The third year we would probably be okay. The fourth year you would be looking at changing turnout, year out and equipment. Anderson: I don't think you can really bank on the fact that the cost is going to go down. It's going to cost you about 50,000 dollars a year for an employee -- Bird: -- yes I realize that Ron. Anderson: As an average. You might have just a very small increase in the startup cost but from that point on - I mean bunker gear you're only talking about 1,000 dollars per man so even on years when you're not buying bunker gear you're talking about 3,000 dollars. A hand held radio you've got to replace those and some of those kind of things but the ongoing training and the increases in salaries and benefits you're going to have to figure about that same cost every yea r. Bowers: Are there any questions then on the three Firefighters? On new equipment. This is where we sit down and where we need new equipment for the year. We have - we've purchased 50 SCBA air bottles many years ago and we are only allowed to use them a certain number of years. As we get closer to that year that we will need to get rid of them instead of buying 50 new ones again at a total lump sum price we would like to start buying 10 a year and kind of phasing them in. We're going to need - we've tested or we've used all of our hose. We don't have any in stock anymore we've got them all on the truck now so we're going to need to buy new hose. There is no prices down here written down because I haven't got them from the manufacturer but what we would like to do is take our Dodge Truck that we have the utility bed on it. Possibly take the utility bed off, put a flat bed unit on it and us it in for a gas fire rig. Our GMC is a 1980 and it's getting a little older as time goes on. We didn't get a quote from Boise Mobile on a change over on that. The amount was 75,000 dollars on equipment. De Weerd: Now so that's your third priority? / ~ Meridian City Council Special BiJu~etWorkshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 33 of 136 Anderson: Is this list in priority order or random or - because he's reading them off in a different order here. Bowers: Excuse me I - thank you. No wander you guys couldn't keep up. You should have caught that there Deputy Chief. Number three then - we'll go back to it. De Weerd: We just wanted to clarify that. Bowers: Thank you Tammy I appreciate that. Number three is Fire Inspector, Safety Officer. What we would like to do is - you guys have worked so hard to beef up Planning and Zoning, beef up the Building Department end and you've worked so hard about beefing up our Firefighters end that we have kind of allowed our administrative kind of to sag a little bit. What we would like to do is bring on a Fire Inspector. What his job duties would be is to be going out into the public, out into the district and going through new buildings and old buildings to inspect. Also, we would use this person on the fire scene as a Safety Officer, which we do not have a dedicated Fire Safety Officer at this time. What that would be is just to keep control of all the Firefighters on the scene, checking out if they've got their ladders put up right, to make sure that if a building were ready to collapse he possibly would be able to see it before the Firefighters. What we would like to do is add this person on to help out the Fire Marshal. So he would be a Fire Inspector Safety Officer. Bird: Kenneth, now tell me that 95,071 dollars is not all wages for that job. Bowers: Well pretty close Keith. No, what that is, is a - Stacy had told us to set down a figure of their salary and all of the equipment to go along with that person's job. Such as turn out equipment, training and testing this person, a vehicle is 20,000 dollars. A vehicle maintenance, vehicle repair, fuel and insurance so 61,000 basically is in wages, overtime, benefits and then the rest of that is in a vehicle and equipment Mayor. Bird: Thanks Kenneth I just wanted to get that out. I knew that wasn't it but the public comes and looks at your budget and sees 95,000 for a Fire Inspector they say oh man I think I'll apply for that job. De Weerd: Well Kenny was going to apply for that job. Bowers: That's what Councilman Anderson said he was going to come over and do. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Bird: He wouldn't want to take a pay cut. Meridian City Council Special BlJu!Jel Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 34 of 136 Anderson: That's right so I've just heard the Council and the Mayor was a pushover here though. Bowers: Any other questions on that Fire Inspector? De Weerd: Kenny, who has been doing these responsibilities to this point? Bowers: Good question, good question. Myself and Joe have been splitting that at this time with our captains of our engine company. We've kind of just split them out among all three of us. De Weerd: Now was it also something that your recent - or not so recently anymore, Fire Marshal did? Bowers: Negative. No we did not at that time. We did not have him do the older buildings he was inspecting all the new buildings but none of the old ones. Bird: This is actually a replay - this isn't a new - this is a new classification but it's not a new employee. This is replacing the Fire Marshal that retired? Anderson: No, Joe has been appointed Deputy Chief Fire Marshal slash Fire Marshal. We're hiring a new Deputy Chief Training Officer. What happens typically is the Fire Marshal does new construction plans review process for fire alarms sprinkler systems and the new construction. Then he goes out and makes sure those buildings are built to meet the code. What we've done in the past is use the existing on-duty crews to do company inspections along with Kenny and Joe to fill in on the existing businesses. What this position would do is it would give us somebody full-time who's just concentrating on existing businesses and making sure that the fire and life safety code is continued to apply with. He would still work with the Engine Company. They would still do some of those types of things but he would be the main person, the coordinator for the more complicated businesses and exceptions. He would be the one that would have more thorough in depth knowledge that the company officers could contact, refer to. Bird: But what I'm saying Ron is we basically had three guys even though they had different job descriptions. Now we've got two, Chief and Deputy Chief. Basically, part of our Fire Marshal slash Skip that retired wages was already I mean it's taking part of this in office space and all of this stuff. You went from three administration people down to two now we're adding the third one back even though it's a different classification. Anderson: No, the position that Skip had Joe has transferred into that position. We're filling Joe's vacancy right now as we speak. That's already included in Meridian City Council Special BUuget Workshop July 17,2001 Pg. 35 of 136 these base budgets. What we're asking for is a new position and an enhancement on top of that. Bird: We're filling another- Anderson: -- we're creating a new position of a Fire Inspector. Bird: Okay but what is the one that's being replaced right now then that's just a Fire Chief Training Officer? Bowers: Yes, training. Bird: This is an additional person then? Bowers: Yes this is an enhancement. Bird: We will have four, five administrators counting the secretary. Unidentified Speaker: I don't think the Fire Inspector is an administrator. Anderson: He's not an administrator no. Bird: He is an online - Anderson: -- he would be a Union Member. De Weerd: So this person would also be enforcing the Fire Code then? Bowers: Yes. De Weerd: Because currently I think you're using some of the Code Enforcement Officers for that is that what I understand? Bowers: Councilman de Weerd, no we are doing that ourselves. Either myself, Deputy Chief Silva or the captains are doing that. Now if we do run into something like weed control or trash or something like that then we do bring in the Code Enforcement Officer to do that. Anderson: Because that's a violation of City Ordinance (inaudible) nuisance. Bowers: City Ordinance. De Weerd: Instead of the Fire Code? Anderson: Fire Code right. Meridian City Council Special Buuget Workshop Jury 17, 2001 Pg. 36 of 136 De Weerd: Thank you. Bowers: Any other questions then? Anderson: No, but you better move along or you're not going to get through. Bowers: I see that, I see that. The next one would be the equipment again. Were there any other questions on the equipment? The next enhancement would be the four-wheel drive unit. This is a vehicle for the Deputy Chief Training Officer that we're hiring right to this day. This would be his rig to drive and basically we decided to go with a four-wheel drive unit on this to get him to our customers because he will be going out into the district a lot also to take over instant command. He will be rotating with Deputy Chief Silva and myself. This person could end up on the freeway out in the mud out in the middle of it, or if a plane comes down or a train he has to get to that emergency. We've decided to try to go with a four-wheel drive unit this time. That would be enhancement - the one that you just received from Stacy. I believe it has Number 8 up in the right hand side. De Weerd: That's 38,000 rig? Bowers: That would be 38,000. Corrie: Are four-wheel drives on the State Bid as well? Bowers: Yes they are. Corrie: They are running 30,000 - what are they? Anderson: I just bought a suburban and it was 28,500. Bird: You need to stay with a suburban at least that large don't you Ron? How do those little ones like yours work for something like this? Not very well will it? Anderson: Mine doesn't work too well because you don't have much room for the equipment. If you get a suburban with - we're going do a slide out in the back for a command center. Bird: Is this a new suburban you just picked up or was it a- Anderson: -- yes it was brand new on the State Bid. By the time you add the light bars and the radios and all of that we'll probably get into about 35,000. Bird: I think - get a suburban it would be as small as you wanted. I don't think you want (inaudible) out of a small SUV. (" Meridian City Council Special BUuget Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 37 of 136 Bowers: Our next enhancement would be up in the right hand side would be request Number 2. It is for two new engines. We realize we're going to need a new engine to fill Station Number 3 when we buy - when we build that station. We have two engines right now that are getting close to 20 years old and another engine that has 70,000 miles on it already. One of the engines that will be phasing out in the years is a two person cab. It doesn't work real well when you have three people to fit in a two-person cab. We are looking into the future of buying two new engines. As you do know we do have 800 and some thousand in a truck fund. I believe that probably is mostly set aside for a latter truck in the future. That's up to probably the City Council of how they would like to work that. Bird: How soon do you think you will build out to where you will need a latter truck? Bowers: We scheduled a latter truck to be bought I believe in four or five more years is that correct? Bird: I think that's what that assessment came out was about five years. Do you believe that you need these two new engines before that time? Bowers: Not at this time. I believe we do need to start specking out for one engine to be ready. Two is just a shot, a hope so, yes. Bird: Do you think you will need - Bowers: -- you will always see a (inaudible) in my budget and this thing. I thought I would just throw it in there. We do need to probably start specking out at least one. Bird: What I mean Kenny do you believe that if we stay with the consultants, timetable and stuff that we will need the two engines before we need the latter the one latter? Bowers: That is correct, yes we do. Bird: What did that last engine cost us when we were completely done, geared up and everything? Bowers: Just a little over 300,000. Anderson: 303,000. Bird: How much? Anderson: 303,000. Meridian City Council Special Bi:"..get Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 38 of 136 Bird: Was that completely- Anderson: -- that was the truck without equipment yes. Then they have a separate line item for equivalent. Does this cost include equipment or is this an inflated price for the truck? Bowers: This is a little inflated price yes for a truck. Bird: Does this cover the equipment? Bowers: Yes it does. We put a - in here fuel, maintenance, insurance, 60,000 for equipment and MDT's the Mobile Data Terminals 680,000. You must not have that. Anderson: You've got 30,000 for the equipment for each truck? Bird: Plus the 300,000. Bowers: Yes for each truck. De Weerd: So how much does a latter truck cost? Bowers: Councilman de Weerd they vary. They vary to depending on how tall of latter that you're going to have. If it's just going to be a latter or if it's going to be a bucket on the end of the latter. Anywhere between 250 to 750,000. De Weerd: And you said we have 800,000 in the account right now? Bowers: Yes. A truck increases 15 to 20 percent each year in the price. Anderson: In that truck fund that we currently have and as I've talked to Tammy a little bit about this my feeling is that that fund ought to be maybe converted from just a fire truck to a capital fund and then that could be used for anything. From building the station to buying a fire truck or whatever. Right now, I think the numbers that we get on our monthly print out are closer to 900,000 then they are 800,000. My thoughts are that probably the latter truck that Meridian will end up buying will be somewhere around the half million dollar price. We still have somewhere around 400,000 in thattruck fund. Bird: Do you agree Ron, that within five years we will need a latter because I've talked to you? Anderson: Well I still believe that our priority ought to be Station 3 and another Engine Company before we worry about the latter truck. Then we look at the latter truck after Station 3 is built. Meridian City Council Special Buuget Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 39 of 136 Bird: I agree with you. Corrie: We could pull in the latter truck if we need to. I like the idea not to narrow that money down - just a truck. I think it's a good point. You can use it for a station. I agree there. Bowers: Any other questions on that then? Bird: I have none. Bowers: The next one is train props and structures. That would be request Number 7 on your paper. This was discussed quite a bit one night in our Rural Commissioners meeting with Ron Anderson - Councilman Anderson being there also. At this time we have to either go to Boise Fire or Nampa Fire to finish our training on props. We do not have the facility in Meridian at this time to do that. The props are different - different ways of doing things of training like a three or four story building that you can train in. They pipe gas into the ground or propane into the ground and light it. You have to go out and put that out. They pipe a propane fire up against a wall like it's going up against a house. We have (inaudible) a rescue training building that we can build to - how to get people and firemen out of buildings that they have went down in. Ron Anderson, Councilman Anderson and Rural Commissioner Mike Ingram talked about this 300,000 in the props building the equipment stuff. Our thing is we haven't really discussed is where would be a good place to put this. It would be nice to have it behind our Fire Station on Franklin but I'm not sure if we have enough room there. I would need some help from Councilman Anderson to help us on the room. This also - we are lacking in our Idaho Surveyed and Rating Bureau when Doug Young comes in. We don't get any credit at all for training because we don't have any problems, we don't have a structure. Always when there's three or four or ten points to get training in this area we always get either a one or maybe a two because we use streets, dead-end roads and our Fire Station to do our training. We don't get a lot of points from Doug Young at the Rating Bureau. Also, every time we want to do some training we have to take an engine out of service and either drive to Nampa or drive to Boise to do this training. Any questions on that? The next one would be the office addition. That would be request Number 4 on your papers. What we had talked about doing is adding on to the north side of the training room where we are now. I had received a quote from ZT A on what a 30 by 14 building would probably cost us to add on out there - office room. What this could do this could house the new Fire Inspector area for his office. Basically we put 50,000 dollars in for an addition to the Fire Station. Bird: How many square feet Kenny? Bowers: 30 by 14 so whatever that figures out there Mr. Fire Marshal. Where's your calculator. Four-Twenty? Meridian City Council Special Buaget Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 40 of 136 Bird: Four-Twenty. Anderson: This one almost seems out of whack because you're saying the Fire Inspector is your Number 3 priority but then giving him a place to work is your Number 8 priority. Do you have some place else that you're going to put him then if we hire him and don't grant your Number 8 priority? Bowers: What we would have then is possibly put him in a bedroom on the other side or a conference room on the other side or somehow double him up in one of our offices for a while if we could. I hate to do that because once we move him in we probably will never get him moved out. It is out of whack a little bit Ron and it is but I know we would need it but I just hated to go too far after asking for two fire trucks and some props. Corrie: On a temporary basis how big is the Fire Marshal's office? Can you put two desks in there for a year? Bowers: No, not in the Fire Marshal's office. We would - Corrie: --I mean they're working hand in hand, Bowers: -- we would probably have to put him over in the conference room or something on the living side - living quarters. De Weerd: How about at Station 2? Bird: That's what I was just going to ask. Bowers: We have even discussed that in the conference room out there is put him in Station 2. We could find a spot for him I realize that but it sure would be nice to be able to put an addition. This is that addition that we've taken off our first plans. Bird: That's a little - and you're not adding a whole bunch of stuff. For 420 square feet I think you're 50,000 is pretty high because all your basically doing is putting a shell and core out there. You've already got everything. It's just a matter of adding to it to your existing system. It's not like you're putting any new air conditioning, heating or electrical boxes or anything else. You're just adding to the existing. I'm positive the existing will handle an extra 420 square feet. I'm like Ron I think you're Fire Inspector's Number 3 I think we need to find a place for the guy. I don't think the conference room is probably an ideal place right now. Bowers: We do use that conference room every day it seems like. Our training room right now gets used three or four times a week with other departments and ( Meridian City Council Special BLiaget Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 41 of 136 we gladly have them come and use it. That means whenever we have anybody come in to go through blue prints or if we have a juvenile fire center come in then we have to use that conference room so it would be a little tight. Deputy Chief Silva did you have anything to add at all? Silva: (Inaudible). De Weerd: I guess we seem the impact of the failure of passing the mill levy increase that we only have the 1.1 million dollars of unallocated funds above the base. For personnel, for merit increases and for capital so you can see it's going to be very tight this year. Bowers: Councilman de Weerd yes and I'm only asking for 1.1 million in the enhancement. De Weerd: So you should be the one and only? Bird: But you've got 900,000, you've got 900,000 in there to cover your biggest thing. That's what people want - as Tammy pointed out you've got a bunch of park impact fees out of that 1.1 million but you've also got 900,000 and growing by the end of the year that you could take care of. I'm like Ron, I don't think it should just be called fire truck fund I think it was put in there for capital Investments for the Fire Department. Basically, your department is much better off then all the other departments because you do have a whole bunch of your capital stuff covered, your big items. Anderson: Yes, the cost of this fire truck the 300,000 dollars would not come form that 1.1 million that could come from the fire truck fund. Bird: If we change that ordinance that took that over to the capital improvement fund then you could do some other things on that point too Ron. De Weerd: So can you astric that engine then so we know that that can come from a - not from the 1.1 million? Bowers: Mayor Corrie and City Council members the only thing I hesitate and it's a good idea to do something like that with an 800, 900,000 but I try to warn you that when it's time to buy a latter truck we're going to have to find that money then somewhere. I don't just don't want us to get clear out in left field here and then all of a sudden we've got to buy a latter truck and we don't have any money set aside. Bird: Well five years you can turn that back in every year on your budget and pick it up. Bowers: Yes if we could sure do that. Meridian City Council Special Bl.l....get Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 42 of 136 De Weerd: Kenny, I hope that this fall when we go after the bond levy increase again that some of what we're doing this year to try and still continue a little bit of progress with our budget those things could be made up. If it fails we'll kind of really have to do some strategic planning but in a bad year like this I think that we'll be very consciences about that fund and certainly won't go out and willy nilly spend it. I appreciate your comments. Bowers: Anything else then. I appreciate you listening to me and I'm sure you guys will have other questions as we go on and I'm sure we'll be going through this budget several times with you. Thank you very much. Bird: I hope not. Bowers: Yes I know. Bird: That's what we got this for is to get this thing ironed out. Bowers: When Ron tells me to cut something out then I'm sure I'll have to be back. Thank you very much. Deputy Chief anything? De Weerd: I just want to add one more thing. After this budget process is over we really look forward to doing some strategic planning. I know that the Mayor wanted to kind of get the Finance Director on board and she was immediately tossed into the budget process. Once this is over we would like to get into the strategic planning and goal setting and really set some firm direction on where we all collectively want to go. Hopefully next year this is going to be a more comprehensive process too. Bowers: City Council I hope you do read my goals that we did, was able to accomplish and what we have coming up because I think you would be proud and please with what we accomplished this last year. De Weerd: I think all of our department- Bird: -- we are very proud of all of you guys in the city. Bowers: We came along way. Corrie: This is going a lot smoother than it has previously thanks to Stacy and your people getting together ahead of time and working these things out. Yes, John Luthy is working with us and we're going to have that strategic planning for anybody. I think the next one will be at 10:30 the Police Department and I would like to take about a 1 O-minute break. Bird: Stacy's nice to give us a break there Mayor. I Meridian City Council Special Buaget Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 43 of 136 Corrie: Thank you Stacy. Let's get this show on the road. Chief, we have the Fire Department next or excuse me the Police Department next and Stacy do you want to do the same overview quickly and then we'll get the police. Kilchenmann: Mayor and Council continuing on spending our 1.1 million dollars. We're going to do the Police Department next and they are our largest general fund department in numbers of dollars and number of people. We did the same procedure with them. We sat down and we carefully went through each one of their component units and determined a base budget then went ahead and as they'll discuss with you talked about their enhancement. They have changed their (inaudible) structure slightly and they'll go over that in their presentation. If you look at the enhancement decision units that they wrote, especially Captain Musser and Captain Bowman got right on the band wagon there. Some of the best written I think enhancement decision units and kind of set the goal of where we want to move as far as providing very detailed documentation and taking the dollars they're asking for and tying them back to their goals. I'm going to let them go ahead and give you their presentation. Corrie: Thank you. Gordon: Thank you Stacy. Mayor and Council this budget year started off probably better than any that I've witnessed in the past 12 years. I think that's because of the help that we got from Stacy, Janice and Reta. They did the lion's share of the budget, which made it real easy for us to just work on the enhancements. A couple of problems, the organizational chart that you have in your packet there is not correct. I've got the correct one here. The goals that it shows were last year's goals and some of them pertain and some of them don't. I think as far as the goals go for the Police Department that should be decided by the new Chief. He's going to be the one that has to live by those. De Weerd: Do you say that with great pleasure? Gordon: As far as what our main goal is, is the protection of the citizens of Meridian and we're going to continue with that obviously, responding to calls and providing the service. I would recommend you give the new Chief about six months and then compare goals with what you folks want. The enhancements we've listed on the easel in front of you and I'll put some of the cost on them. The number to the left is the priority listing. The enhancements we've broken down by divisions and I'll let Captains Musser and Bowman explain those to you. We'll start with Captain Bowman. Bowman: Our priorities we have basically eight priorities this year. Number 1 on our list is Number 3 in your packet is the new building expenses. Once our building is completed we're going to be needing various different items to go into that new building, a. telephone system to fit the new structure, which will be ( Meridian City Council Special Buuget Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 44 of 136 roughly around 50,000 dollars alone. Cabling, networking, computers and furniture are included in that cost that 396,478 dollars along with moving costs. We'll stand for any questions you might have on that item. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Yes. De Weerd: I'm sorry I know I can talk (inaudible). Captain Bowman are these some of the overruns that you came to us earlier the 369,000 that - or are these new costs? Bowman: These are costs that are not associated with any of the construction costs. These are not overruns, these are what it's going to take to move into that new building. De Weerd: Okay so those weren't figured into the specs when it went out to bid or anything like that? Bowman: No they were not. Gordon: Councilwoman de Weerd the construction manager listed the things - the actual cost of the construction area was the 218,000 over and then he gave us a list of the things. It's not a turnkey construction project. The wiring and the alarms and the fire alarms all of that stuff they're not covering under construction costs so that is an addition to the 218,000. Which, until we get the bids in we're not sure that that is actually going to be over 218,000 on construction alone. De Weerd: And you open bids in August right? Gordon: 26th I think. Bird: 26th of July. Gordon: So it will be coming up here pretty quick and it's kind of behind the budget process so we can't really give you fixed numbers until they get those in. Bird: They don't have in the bid - they're not pulling the wire for telephone and stuff in the shell and core. Bowman: No sir. Musser: We're responsible for all those. Gordon: Telephone wire, computer wire, alarm wires, close circuit TV none of that is done. They'll provide the cable racks but that's it. I Meridian City Council Special Buuget Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 45 of 136 Anderson: And I just add that's common practice. That's happened with both the new fire stations and we just completed a remodel of a public administration building in Nampa. The bids normally for that construction and that do not include your computer cabling and telephone systems. Bowman: I might just add this is a very important enhancement to us. We're going to have a very empty building without it. De Weerd: Yes I totally understand that I just was a little unclear on stuff. Bird: Does this include all new furniture? Bowman: We're going to utilize as much of the furniture we have in the existing facility that's worthy of going in the new building. We're talking a lot of the wood desks and things like that and file cabinets. There is some new furniture that will be needed for the additional office space that we'll be utilizing. Corrie: I'm still a little confused I guess in at that wrong time but which one of these is a priority the left hand side or the right hand side. Bird: Left. Corrie: The blue numbers so your number one priority is four new police officer's right? Bird: No. Bowman: No sir. Bird: Number 1 is new building. De Weerd: The one to the farthest right- Bird: -- farthest left. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Corrie: Number 1 is on the left right? (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Corrie: I have little ways of doing things I don't tell about. Thank you that's good. Anderson: Captain Bowman? Meridian City Council Special Buaget Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 46 of 136 Bowman: Yes. Anderson: I guess now that I'm looking at the sheet that has the breakdown I guess my question would be that the biggest cost is this 218,000 which is cost variance. Do you want to explain what that is? Bowman: I'll let Captain Musser take that. Musser: Thank you Mayor Corrie and Councilman Anderson. The cost variance is projected out based upon the Kriezenbeck Construction Incorporated project cost spreadsheet. Included in that on the first spreadsheet that we received which would have been dated before the one that you have at this point which is July 10, 2001. It showed the 218,000 dollars as a cost variance in their projected cost that they have. They've since revised that, however looking at the numbers that they currently have on the July 10, 2001 project cost spreadsheet there's still a variance that's showing in there and I'm not quite sure where they're getting all their numbers from or how they're moving them around. We still have a cost variance in the area of about 218,000 dollars here regardless. Anderson: On that sheet you're talking about July 10, 2001 is it contingency is that what it's listed as? Musser: No it's not we have a - they list - if you look down where is says funds available it shows 3.7 million dollars. Where they got that figure I'm not quite sure because we're dealing with a 3.5 million dollar project and then they show a total variance at the bottom of that page at 21818. They revised that but the prior page that we have to work off of when they initially submitted it in showed a 218,000 variance based upon their projections. In given that we're still dealing with only 3.5 million and they're showing the 3.77 we've got a variance. Gordon: Mayor and Councilman Anderson that last spreadsheet from Kriezenbeck they've included on the upper portion of those architectural fees and most of those we paid in the last year's budget but they're still showing it for total cost on the projects. That's - until we get the bids open I wasn't going to sit down with them and make them prove hard numbers. They've added it into there and it shouldn't be there plus the contingency should bring us back down. Bird: That's got to be in there Bill until you get the final deal because that is part of your bid. I realize we have paid LeA up front but that still has got to be on this sheet for them yes. It's going - our actual payout of our loan will reflect that but what we have paid them has to come back out of that loan - out of the general fund that we have already paid them to justify and to bottom line this building. That's why it's left in even though we have done that. Gordon: Right but it confuses you when you look at it at first without knowing that. Meridian City Council Special Buaget Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 47 of 136 Bird: That's true it is confusing but that has to be done. Anderson: Yes I think like Keith is saying they're not really concerned with our fiscal years all they're doing is trying to show their total cost of everything on the project and realizing that we've already paid part of these fees out of this years budget. Musser: Yes but just to look at the spreadsheet it's confusing. The last actual projection they gave us on total cost of the building was 218,000 dollars over. They kind of assured us that that wouldn't - when they get the bids in it would come down considerably. Bird: I agree with you. Especially if they use the valued engineering which I know both LCA and Kriezenbeck are very, very good at that. Musser: Okay so that's where we - the figures don't really jive unless you know that they put some stuff in there that is paid for already and won't be- Bird: Yes but it still has to show in the - what I'm saying is it still has to show in the total project. Basically what that would do is free up maybe some cost to you in the general fund after we take it out into the law. Musser: Correct. Bowman: Any further questions Council? Number- Bird: -- just a second Captain Bowman. This 396,478 you feel covers the new building complete. We won't be coming back next September and having to readjust the budget? This more than covers what you believe- Bowman: -- we're confident in this amount. We've been in contact telephone people, cabling people- ***End Of Side Three*** Bowman: -- we've talked to the suppliers of furniture and so forth and got some very good figures to give you here today. Bird: Okay. Bowman: We're very confident in this - Bird: -- this will cover the moving? Bowman: Yes. ( Meridian City Council Special Buuget Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 48 of 136 Bird: Okay thank you. Bowman: We've researched all of the individual costs. Number 2 on our priority list there is Number 4 in your enhancements. These are for - total cost is 54,357 dollars for two part time positions. What we're looking to do here mayor and Council is to free up some Police Officers from duties that are taking away from their duty as Police Officers. We're looking to hire a part time Evidence Technician to take over that evidence section of the department. When we move into the new building especially it's going to be quite a job putting that together and managing it. Making sure that the evidence is correctly booked in and to manage it after it's been booked in, getting it out to the officers for court, so forth and so on. The part time positions will be similar to what we've done with the Code Enforcement. They'll be retired - we're looking to hired officers to fill those positions. The other one would be a community policing similar to what Boise City has right now with Kurt Cromine I don't know if you're familiar right now he's a civilian employee to handle the marketing of the Police Department our community lies on with the different organizations and so forth. Bird: Captain. Bowman: Yes sir. Bird: On this one part time that's going to take over the evidence would you bring him on October 1 st or would you want to bring him on a month or two before you move into the new building? Bowman: We'd probably be looking to start that at the budget year October 1st. Bird: Okay. Bowman: It would be nice if we could bring him on earlier but I doubt that could occu r. Bird: This - October 1st of this year is when you bring him in when we start the new- Bowman: -- yes sir. Corrie: This isn't - Captain does this correlate with these two? Releasing two other officers to be back on the street? Bowman: One officer right now would go back to full time detective duties. That's Jim Miller. He spends 50 percent of his time in that evidence vault which the mans done a remarkable job the last three years that he's been assigned these duties carrying a full case load as a detective plus managing the evidence ( Meridian City Council Special Suoget Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 49 of 136 vault. The community policing position will allow me to free up another detective also for handling the full caseload. Bird: Can they do this job on a part time basis Captain (inaudible) securing that? Bowman: I believe so yes. Bird: Even when we get to the new evidence room which will be larger and probably have more? Bowman: I currently have a civilian records person assigned to Detective Miller to assist him when he's not available. There's time when officers have to come in and retrieve evidence for court and so forth. She's there eight to five, five days a week to help out there and she does a lot of the running back and forth between our evidence vault and the crime lab here in Meridian. Bird: She would stay in this existing position - Bowman: -- yes. Bird: Okay. You wouldn't free her away from that? Bowman: No sir. Any more questions Council? Bird: I have none. Bowman: Number 3 on our priority list is Number 6 in your enhancements, total cost of 45,000 dollars. These are for new detective vehicles. My staffing has increased the last couple of years however I've not been able to keep up with vehicles. These vehicles would be for existing positions. One would go to our elementary school resource officer position who does not have a vehicle right now he's just kind of driving whatever he can. The other would go to an individual new school resource officer when the new high school comes up or the new position we'll be looking for that year. Bird: Captain? Bowman: Yes sir. Bird: How many - your resource officers one of the vehicles is for a resource officer is that right? Bowman: Yes sir. Bird: How many miles do they put on it? Meridian City Council Special BUuget Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 50 of 136 Bowman: They're not as bad on them as patrol officers. They'll put on about roughly 20,000 a year. Bird: Could we - what I'm thinking is could we buy a new vehicle, give it to patrol and give the resource officer the older patrol vehicle that he isn't going to be putting the miles on. I realize it isn't miles on the patrols it's the hour meter and I would like to see on our new vehicles I would like to see an hour gage put on it. It's like the Park's Department their lawn mowers and stuff they can tell you how many hours are used not how many - I think people would be shocked when we're asking for replaceable police vehicles at 100, 105,000 miles. They don't realize how many hours that vehicles motors had. Bowman: That's true and we've looked at this option Councilman Bird trying to get the best cars we could out of patrol. This is what we have been doing historically just moving those over to detectives. However we've got (inaudible) this year. The patrol vehicles are so bad that bringing them into detectives is kind of defeating the purpose. It just shoots my budget for repairs and maintenance to keep those junkers running. We had been doing it the last few years however this year it's just gotten to the point where I need a new vehicle. We're not looking at brand new vehicles we're looking at lease returns. I've been purchasing lease returns the last couple three or four years and that's been working out really well in detectives because we don't run those vehicles as hard. We can buy quality used vehicles, low mileage vehicles and put them out there and they'll last five, six or seven years almost. I'm driving a lease return myself right now as my company vehicle and I've had it about four years and Captain Musser had it a year or two before I did. It's still in good shape and it's only got about 57,000 miles on it. Bird: We're asking - and I know our patrol vehicles are in sad shape some of them. I guess Captain Musser can answer this. You have no design to buy any new patrol vehicles this year? Musser: Councilman Bird within the enhancements that we haven't gotten to yet they do include some new vehicles. We've also submitted in capital replacement requests which would include new patrol vehicles to replace those that we consider obsolete or worn out. Bird: How many vehicles, patrol vehicles do you have right now Captain? Musser: The total amount of patrol vehicles that we have listed on the sheet under uniform patrol was 14. Bird: And can you put hour meters on those and how much more do they cost to put an hour meter on? Meridian City Council Special BUuget Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 51 of 136 Musser: I don't know how much it would cost to put the hour meters on but obviously they do have them so yes they can be installed we just have to do some research and find out what it would cost. Bird: For maintenance and stuff you know I realize a new car's 45, 5,000 miles but I would think with you guys oil changes and stuff like that should be a lot more often than that because of the hours that, that motor sets there and uses it. Musser: Our service schedule and policy at this time Councilman Bird requires the vehicles go in at 3,000 or if we notice anything else that's coming up on it that they immediately go in when they're recorded in. 3,000 is their standard so we stay under in trying to (inaudible) manufacture specifications for the police vehicles. Bowman: Any further questions Council? Bird: I have none. Bowman: Number 4 on our priority list is Number 7 in your enhancement packet. This is a laser fische records archiving software hardware system. Our new building in order to meet the constraints of budget we've had to cut out significant portions of the original design. A part of that was our records storage area in the new facility. Consequently we're looking at ways of archiving records existing, future and past records. I don't know if you've taken a trip down to the basement lately but we've pretty well filled up that basement with records. This new system, I don't know if you saw this system in use in Coeur D'Alene a year ago at the AIC conference. This is where I was introduced to these folks and I've done many meetings with them since then down here our records people, administration and so forth. This system will virtually wipe out all paper files and we'll be able to not only keep up with existing and future files we'll be able to start getting rid of the surplus downstairs. When we're in our new facility this will maximize the area that we have in our records division. Anderson: I hate that when you use that word wipe out files. It scares me. I had a question I guess kind of being on the old school and it seems like that technology changes all the time. I still have some 8 track tapes so I'm concerned about if we switch to this CD then in five years are we going to be outdated because there's some new thing besides a laser disc now that we might have to continually keep changing medias with these? Bowman: This was a concern of mine too. I talked to these folks on this issue several times. This is a non-prefatory system that changes as technology changes. Let's say the medium used CD for storage changes to something much more efficient then that part of the system changes with it. It's not - for instance I can compare this to the Ada County Sheriff's Department. I talked to Pam Babbitt over there who's their record's supervisor and we've been looking at (' Meridian City Council Special ~l.Juyet Workshop July 17,2001 Pg. 52 of 136 these systems. She's very interested in the system too but they're tied into Kodak right now with their microfilm. She pays roughly 20,000 dollars a month to Kodak to keep that system running and she can't get out of that contract. She wants to come over - if we get this she wants to come over and look at this system and look at that medium. In answering your question Councilman Anderson this system will adapt as technology changes. Anderson: Okay thank you. Bowman: That's what impressed me specifically on laser fische. Bird: Isn't this the same basics that the Building Department in Boise has their records on? This is the same laser fische thing that they've had very good success the last two or three years with it. Bowman: That's good to know I wasn't- Bird: -- I think it's the same Captain but - and whatever they've got is very, very successful for people to go in and look up plans and all that kind of stuff that's been done. Bowman: It's very user friendly number 1, training is negligible plus the adaptability that it gives the user. Any further questions on that Council? Anderson: I have none. Bowman: Number 5 on our priority list is Number 5 on your packet list that's digital equipment. The total cost on that is 7,200 dollars. Again, this ties into stream lining and modernization of our existing structure on how we manage case files in particular the detective division. Once again we use tape recorders that have tapes. All of our video equipment uses tapes and all of our storage is hard files. These files become very bulky within the detective division. When a lawyer, whether it's a defense lawyer or a prosecutor requests something they have to wait several days before it can be retrieved, copied and supplied to them. Digital equipment will allow us to enter a new phase in the investigation that's already being utilized and I'll use the Los Angeles Police Department as an example. They have gone to what's called a virtual investigation where the entire case file is digitally recorded whether it's audio, video or the reports themselves are stored on CD rom disks. This gives them the capability of instantly transferring information anywhere in the world on any part of their investigations. This will eventually allow us to again maximize space within our detective division and to start being able to transfer information a lot more efficiently. Corrie: Captain enlighten me a little bit as to what digital camera 5,300 dollars. What kind of camera is that? Meridian City Council Special BUuget Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 53 of 136 Bowman: That's a digital video recorder I believe. My detectives have researched this area for me and have provided those. Let me pull that up real quick. Yes that's a digital camera. It's a high speed, high-resolution camera. It's extremely top of the line. Corrie: Okay. I figured it was but I - with that price (inaudible) pretty good camera. Bowman: I asked the same question when I was shown that too. Anderson: Yes you could buy a pretty good just regular digital one for 500. That's why I was thinking that must be a pretty high (inaudible). Bowman: Yes sir. Some of the crime scenes they get into are very poor light and I believe this particular piece of equipment minimizes all of those particular problems that you usually encounter with your normal homegrown digital camera or video camera. Bird: Captain, being ignorant on all this new electronic stuff. Does this digital equipment kind of tie in with the laser fische? Bowman: It can. It's along the same lines Councilman. It allows all of the -- whatever it is video, audio all of the reports everything to be digitally recorded upon one medium the CD-rom. Where the laser fische that's what we're looking for recording on the CD-rom. Bird: by using this and having a scanner you can put that right onto the laser fische can't you? Bowman: Yes sir. Bird: The nice camera like this? Bowman: Yes sir. Bird: I think it's very, very good. Bowman: Yes sir. If a department in New York City wants to know anything about our case I don't have to send anything through the mail. I just instantly download it to the internet and - Bird: -- toss it over. Bowman: Pop it over. Meridian City Council Special BU:uget Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 54 of 136 Bird: Now this camera at 50 (inaudible). Is there anything cheaper that would do the same job you know? I know you've researched it don't get me wrong. Bowman: Yes there is Councilman. There is we could probably go cheaper in this area. Bird: I was going to say to start with could we go down one grade and then grade up? I F it comes down to a real tight enhancement deal could we downgrade just a little bit. Bowman: Yes sir we could. Bird: And still get the same job? Bowman: We could probably cut more than half of that off probably. Bird: Because I'm like Ron I've seen some of these - my kids have got some of these 500-dollar digital cameras and stuff. They do a great job to me. Bowman: Yes that's true. You're right we could probably cut this down. Bird: I'd have one but I'm not smart enough to run it. Bowman: Any more questions on the request Number 5 there? Number 6 is Number 2 in your enhancements. That's on the K-9 purchase. I'm going to turn this over to Captain Musser now. Musser: Mayor Corrie, members of the City Council. These enhancement essentially 62,528 dollars would include some adjustment under wages for an existing officer already with a department. Those wage adjustments primarily have to do with the agreement entered into the city with the K-9 handlers for the 45 minutes a week and overtime that they receive for their K-9 duties. In addition, there would be an ongoing year to year expenditures that would increase within the K-9 operating expenditure lines and then the majority of the cost would be related to capital involving the purchase of the dog, training with a handler in conjunction with that and then also equipment for the K-9 and then one patrol car with full accessories set up for K-9 handling. That's where we get the total on that. Most of the opportunity for problems with what this would be addressing is outlined in Number 1 on the request areas there and the service to be provided is also outlined. I don't know how much more in depth I can really go on that unless you have specific questions related to it which I would stand for now. Anderson: Bill I had a question on the vehicles. How do the current K-9 officers - we have two now is that correct? ( Meridian City Council Special BlIul,JetWorkshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 55 of 136 Musser: Yes we do have two now. Anderson: How does that work do they use one car and they share it when they're not on duty or does each K-9 officer have to have their own vehicle they can't be shared? Musser; We attempted to share to begin with and it created a number of problems for us. K-9's have a tendency to be quite territorial at times which if one K-9's in there and another one gets in then they have a tendency to either pardon the expression urinate all over the place or they start scratching to kind of mark their territory. At this point each one of them is issued to their own car. They are subject to call out and it makes it easier for us to call them and have them respond with all of their gear, equipment and the dog in it so that's why we were looking at housing as this third dog request (inaudible) only car as well. It eases in transport, utilization with the dog and also prolongs the life of our cars in the long run. Bird: Captain? Musser: Yes sir. Bird: One follow up question. On the car, also the vehicle has to have special locks and stuff that they can release the K-9 if they get in trouble and the K-9 isn't out they hit a button and it opens the door. I know it sounds like a lot of money but basically that K-9 is probably worth one and a half officers as far as the work that K-9 can do in drugs and stuff like that. Musser: As I've indicated on there I haven't really figured out what the ratio would be per officer on it but the K-9's have access to be able to do warehouses much more efficiently than what it would take a three man to a five man squad to do. They can detect the odor of controlled substances much better than the average street officer but we have some that really try to compete. They're also capable of tracking where the officer's may not be able to especially during hours of darkness in order to do apprehension on a suspect so they are worth their overall cost. Bird: Captain on a 40,OOO-foot warehouse building how many officers would you send in there to go through it? Musser; It would be our policy there would be a minimum of three that would have to go through it but on something that size I would prefer to see a team of five go in and that's why you're still also maintaining a perimeter of at least two to three officers outside of it. Bird: And one dog would cover that within a quicker time then - ( Meridian City Council Special B'uu!,Jel Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 56 of 136 Musser: One dog could go in with a handler and with a backup with the handler on it and still have your perimeter covered. Bird: You don't have to sell me on the K-9's. Corrie: Usually, having some experience with K-9 and going through a warehouse. Usually if they're in there you just tell them the dog is going to be release if you don't come out and they come out believe me. It's scary to go in there how many officers you've got because you go around a corner and you get shot. My main question here is that that dog would be trained both in patrol and narcotics is that correct? Musser: That is correct. All of our dogs are what we term as dual usage dogs at this point. That's the same thing we would be looking at here. We also explored the possibility on the dual usage of potentially looking at explosives however I think we'll wait for later on down the road and just run with apprehension and controlled substance odor detection on this one. Bird: Captain while you're on that is there a dog on explosives in the valley? I mean like does Canyon County, Ada County or any of the Police Department's have an explosive dog? Musser: Currently at this time Boise City has one very well certified dog, which they obtained from ATF, which is certified on explosives. They have another one that they're working on at this time as well. Considering we do have a memorandum of understanding with Boise City we would have access to that dog should we need. Bird: Good. Thank you. Anderson: One more question on the vehicles Bill. That 40,000 seems a little bit high to me. The other officers you're doing that with a car is that correct? I've seen cars that say K-9 on them is that a patrol car similar to all the other patrol cars or what is it? Musser: Councilman Bird it is a patrol car just like the other vehicles that we operate. The 40,000 may be just a wee bit high. We just recently completed three new Chevy's that went online and those were averaging about 36,000 dollars to complete at this point. We were also notified for next year we need to have an increase of a 500 dollars per vehicle reference the insurance so we've looked at that. Plus the K-9 vehicle would also have a 1200 and - actually with shipping and everything it would probably come closer to about 1500 dollars by the time we're done with the installation and everything. It has a special containment section that goes into the back seat. Currently, we're using manufactured ones that our officers have manufactured but they're starting to Meridian City Council Special BUu!:let Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 57 of 136 ware out so we're looking at utilizing the aluminum and stainless steal ones that we'll insert into the back of the cars. Anderson: And the reason you would need a car is this individual would be a patrolman too? I know in Nampa they use a small pickup like a ranger or something like that with a camper shell. It's an unmarked vehicle is that because this individual is doing patrols also that they would have to be a marked patrol ca or what? Musser: That's correct Councilman Bird. This officer has duties number one as a patrol officer within the City of Meridian and then he's capable of responding to other calls saying assist with one of our officers or another department to do an odor detection sweep on a vehicle or a building. Our officers also respond out to help probation of parole and then if we do have a building check that needs to be done during the evening on a warehouse area or a large building or we have a tracking on a suspect from a pursuit. Either a foot pursuit or a vehicle pursuit then those officers can respond to provide assistance. Just as Boise's responded into help us we've responded over a number of times to help them and Ada County and I believe there's even been a rare occasion we've helped out over in Canyon County with Nampa and the Sheriff's Department as well. By having them in that marked unit it makes it easier for them to get from point A to point B because they have the full use of the lights and sirens as well so they meet the state confines on use of those items for emergency response. Bird: Having rode with a K-9 several times Ron they are on patrol or at least every time I've ridden Jeff has been on patrol - him and Tigo's been on patrol just like any other officer there and have done traffic stops but in the same token if another officer at a traffic stop and there's suspension of drugs he can respond over there. Like Captain Musser said we one night went out of the city to help Boise and Garden City with the dog so they are actually - and I brought up this same question I believe a couple of years ago to Chief Gordon and by the time you out fit one of those small pickups or a small SUV you're probably into more money then what the patrol car is. Am I not right? Musser: Councilman Bird from what we've looked at so far in the vehicles short of doing the pickup we might be in about the same category with the pickup but the smaller SUV's usually end up costing us about 5 to 7,000 dollars more than a standard patrol vehicle package. Bird: Because I had the same question that Ron did. Plus I like the patrol car the more I look into it it's the fact that the public gets to see these dogs and thank goodness we do have some great public dogs that are our patrol dogs. Musser: And I appreciate that. That's also one of the things that we noticed that it would fulfill for us is provide us a little bit more community service contact with the dog. Meridian City Council Special BUuget Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 58 of 136 Anderson: How do you decide who would be a K-9 officer? You just put out a request to all your existing patrol people and see if there's anybody that's interested or how does that work? Musser: Well at this point we pretty much have an idea of who we would be looking at and that's based upon the fact that we have an officer who has spent a lot of his own time, a lot of his own off time as well as being compensated for some time on duty who has been assisting the two K-9's that we have now working as a decoy for them. He's the guy that dresses up in the suit the dog gets to go and practice apprehending and biting. He's done this for well on a year and a half to two years now and has a real strong interest in becoming a K-9 officer so that's the first one that we'll probably be looking at. Anderson: Keith volunteered to do that same thing. If you need a substitute. Bird: I would love to and I have to say that these guys - I have been fortunate to be invited to a couple of their training sessions and that includes everybody. They come out on their own time to my knowledge they're on their own time. They train the dogs and you have some officers that are not K-9 officers out there being the guinea pig now I'm not going to be the guinea pig because I've seen some of the marks left after they bit with the suit on so I'm not going to be the guinea pig because. Plus I don't move very fast anymore. Anyway, I'm for this 1 00 percent. Musser: Well I guess with that we'll turn it over to the next one, which Captain Bowman will have. It will be enhancement Number 8 in your packet but it's prioritized as Number 7. Bowman: This is for shelter finish work. It's hard to believe but we're coming up on two years since the new animal shelter has been constructed. I had originally placed this request last year but after budget cuts it went away of several other items so we never did finish the interior of that animal shelter. I explained last year to you folks the problem we had when we ended construction. We had bare sheet rock walls on the interior of that facility. We've got a very nice facility out there too. However, during clean up water gets splashed around and I'm afraid that if we don't get on this item here soon if we don't have some money allocated to finish off those walls protect that sheet rock we're going to be doing that whole interior over again. This will also go to the cost of soundproofing the interior of that building. Right now our two animal control officers are wearing gun earmuffs, ear protection to go inside there and work. The noise in there is unbelievable when those dogs start - and it's usually full of dogs. The noise is just unbelievable. Anderson: What are you soundproofing the office or the - (~ Meridian City Council Special BUulJet Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 59 of 136 Bowman: -- no the interior where the cages are. Anderson: so they can sound proof the individual cages or are you going to (inaudible) the sheet rock. Bowman: That's the wrong terminology it cuts - we're going to use material to cut down the noise level to an acceptable the echo. That bare sheet rock just bounces those shrilled dogs barking off that thing like a tuning fork. This will allow us to cut down on the noise level soundproofing of sorts. There's a material that you can hang from the ceilings it's like an egg carton that blocks some of that noise down. At least those people that work in there will be able to do so without having to wear earmuffs every time they're in there. Anderson: And what kind of wall finish are you going to put on there to protect from the moisture. Bowman: A vinyl type material to waterproofed vinyl material. Anderson: And have you received the estimates on that or is this just kind of- Bowman: I looked at it the year before last when I made the request for last years budget and that's the cost I got then. I'm not looking to vinyl the whole interior but just high enough where the water's not going to be damaging that lower portion of the sheet rock. Any further questions? Bird: I have none. Bowman: Number 8 and this is our last priority is Number 1 in your packet. This is for four new officers and I'll turn this back over to Captain Musser. Musser: Mayor Corrie and members of the Council. The first thing I would like to point out is I made an error when I wrote up the 226,820 dollars on that. It should actually be a total of 271,320 dollars. For some reason or another when I was adding it up and writing it up real quick I forgot to capital the 445 on that. This enhancement is a result of continued growth within the city and our attempt to try to move on up to fulfilling a little bit better ratio of officers per thousand population. However, we also realize with the limitations and the budget availability this year with the 1.1 funding available that this one is a rather spendy one in conjunction with the other items that we've looked for. The attempt here was to move more towards looking ahead at some of the items that were presented in our customer center strategic plan and it was an attempt to provide a few more officers out there on the road to increase our potential for service and proactive programs. Four officers would necessitate having at least one car under the capital so that was included as well as long with a speed detection device known as a Iiador, which is the laser radar. Overall it would impact our personnel costs by some 202,682 dollars. We would have a one time Meridian City Council Special Bllllget Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 60 of 136 expenditure impact of 13,138 dollars on operations with the year-to-year expenditure expected 11,000 dollars as a result of this. Then again with the capital being at 44,500. I would stand for any questions if you have any at this point. Bird: Captain? Musser: Yes sir Mr. Bird. Bird: I have a question. With the laser fische and the digital equipment and the two new part time positions is that not going to free up some of the patrol officers time to be on the road and not have to spend so much time writing up reports and stuff? Musser: I believe both Captain Bowman and I can respond there. It may provide a little bit of time to the patrol officers however most of those items are going to free up investigative personnel that are not out on the road doing active patrol. Bird: Okay how will you - let me ask you a question. IN the computers they have in the car now are they capable of taking - is that computer capable of going back and going into this laser fische and stuff like that at this time? If not can it be? Is there any way that we can go back from the car to the computer in the office where the poor officer - in an hour you'll spend 15 minutes writing up reports and I hate paperwork. Musser: Councilman Bird there is kind of a yes and no on both of that. Anything that's digitized can essentially be put into the laser fische format because it is digital storage. The computer stuff that we're using out in the cars now have that capability. However because we're not the ones that are responsible for the majority of the programming issues associated with those we don't have that luxury or that ability to do anything with them right now where they fall under the emergency communications act from where we purchased it from. We are looking down the road to be able to increase and have the ability to do that. Some of that would take place as we move into the building with the enhancements that we asked for within that from proving our intranet and our internet capability and bringing all of our computers up to date so that officers would begin to have a way to take what we have out in the field and be able to dump it into a new format. The other thing that we're also waiting for as Chief Gordon noted at the very beginning of this is we need some goals from our new Chief when they come on as to where we want to go and what he essentially wants to see in conjunction with this Council as we're moving into the next two years. That would have a significant bearing on it at that point I believe. Bowman: If I could add something to that. Bird: Yes Captain. I Meridian City Council Special Buuget Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 61 of 136 Bowman: I'm currently doing research and development. Along the lines of what you just asked Councilman Bird right now being able to transmit data over the MDT's is down the road a couple years. I'm looking - that's one of my long term goals is to be able to do that. In the interim I'm looking at a short-term solution. Our computer people, the Empire people are developing or attempting to develop a process where we can actually do reports on computers and transfer that manually by floppy disk into the main system. We're working to that solution and we're getting some short-term solutions already and that's in the works. Bird: Isn't this what we have. This is what sticks in my mind is when we went through that Coeur D'Alene deal (inaudible) don't they have something like this where the officers in the - Bowman: -- that's a very expensive system that you - Bird: -- yes but didn't they have something like that that they didn't have to get out of their car or off of the computer to get it back to them, Bowman: If I had the money I could put a really fancy system in believe me. Transmission over the MDT's and through the air and that kind of thing. Yes it's possible and that's a long term goal of ours is to be able to do that. Research and development we're getting the infrastructure in place to do that but we'll have to do it in sections or segments that will allow us to do it financially and responsibly. De Weerd: Captain Bowman is that included in your base budget the computer work that's necessary? Bowman: We're actually doing that this year. De Weerd: All this year? Bowman: Yes that's part of the research and development project I've been working on. That's been ongoing for a couple of years. I've been looking at different alternatives and now I'm to the point where I'm have the IT people, the information technology people come up with ways to do it. De Weerd: That's fantastic. Bird: That sounds great. Corrie: Okay any other questions from Council? Bird: I have nothing. I thank you for the presentation. I Meridian City Council Special BLJuget Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 62 of 136 Corrie: Anything Chief that you want to add? Gordon: Just that this has been exceptionally an easy year budget wise and here again thanks to the staff at City Hall. As far as technology goes I think Councilman Anderson brought it up. It's changing so fast that yes you could almost do anything with anything anymore. The technology is there but it's expensive. With that I have nothing else to add. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor I guess I'm still - we still have this replacement section and how it fits within the priorities of the unallocated funds. Gordon: Captain Musser just kicked me under the table to remind me of that very thing so I'll let him finish that up. De Weerd: Okay thank you. Musser: Mayor Corrie and Councilman de Weerd in reference to the replacement capital we've noted that in there and that is part of last years goals in particular with the vehicles on trying to establish some sort of a format over the next few years that we could move into so we have an expectation of what's going to have to be replaced from year to year. At this point we do have three marked patrol units. All of them will be well in excess of 110,000 miles by the time we get to the end of this budget year. We are looking at 120,000 dollars _ excuse me yes it would be 120,000 dollars just for those three. In addition to that we also have three investigative cars in Captain Bowman's section which were hand me downs at one time from patrol and they're even sorrier than my patrol cars are right now but they're half the cost because they don't' have the full MDT's set up, they don't have all the lights on them, they don't have the heavy duty radio's all the trunk equipment and the rest of that that goes into a patrol vehicle. We were looking at those six vehicles as being a definite priority as far as replacement capital when we were putting this together. Also in conjunction with that is we're trying to upgrade our computer systems as we've noted through our enhancements. There are some computers within the station that are rather old, have some problems with their processors and we would like to replace those as well as part of our replacement capital. What we're basically looking at there overall is just getting rid of the old and bringing in the new so we can keep on doing what we need to do. De Weerd: I appreciate that. I know that in the evaluation I think the goal of the department would be to start seeking funds so that you have those replacement costs in there. We have very limited funds this year and so we're really trying to get a real snapshot from your departments view on what - how these expenses fall within and how we can best prioritize each department's request for those unallocated funds. ( Meridian City Council Special Bi...uget Workshop July 17,2001 Pg. 63 of 136 Musser: I can appreciate that Councilman de Weerd. I guess from my perspective and I'm not speaking for the Chief or for Captain Bowman but my perspective I look at that as an essential part of the base. In order for us to continue to do the base we need to have those replacements so we can at least continue to move from there. I don't think I'm out of line in making that comment. The enhancements are all new things that come in and ultimately that's I guess where the hard decisions are going to come from the Council at this to point as to what you think is an acceptable priority in lieu of the 1.1 million dollars and then making those adjustments from there. As we've indicated the new building and those costs associated with that we feel is a high priority for us but we also need to continue to provide the service as best we can given the base we have at this point so the replacements in conjunction with that would have to be a necessary priority for us as well. I'll see if Chief or Captain Bowman has anything else to add in regards to that. Bird: Captain it's the three investigative vehicles that's in addition to the two for the new officers? Bowman: Yes sir this is a replacement of like Captain Musser said. These are hand me down vehicles and like I said earlier my new policy is to look at lease returns for the best value for the city. They've worked out well and that's - I'm getting rid of some old vehicles one in particular we call blue goose. That's the one Rick Shaddock drives. I've been promising him a new car now for two years and that particular car usually ends up spending all of the repairs and maintenance budget of that entire section. It's a high maintenance, high dollar vehicle so these are in addition to the two extra cars. Bird: And to follow up on that Captain Musser when your vehicles get to the 100,000 and stuff I've had the privilege of riding in some that you wander if the front ends going to stay underneath it. What - your maintenance has to go to the point where it's just not feasible to put any more money in that vehicle. Musser: Councilman Bird that's true and we've had a couple of vehicles that have ended up in that shape. Frankly in referring to that we had one K-9 vehicle, which was an old step car at one time that we had Corporal Shine in. Well I turned around and I traded out my vehicle that was assigned to me which on had 28 some odd thousand - ***End Of Side Four*** Musser: -- and I can get from point A to point B because I didn't have to put on the miles that he did. We inched it along until we could run that one out this year within this budget that we're currently in. We have made those allowances but otherwise in order to keep it on we would have had to replace the transmission, we would have had to have a major engine overhaul on it. We weren't going to dump the money into it. I had other cars that would get more life or in better Meridian City Council Special BUu~et Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 64 of 136 shape so we prioritized those for the repair and maintenance funding that we had available. Bird: I think the Council a couple years ago when Councilman Anderson and I was on here that we had - we at that time realized that we need to start getting a vehicle replacement plan in line because we can't afford to be hit every year with major vehicle replacement. We need to do it on a - you're pretty hard on the 40,000 per police patrol car? Musser: I am at this point Councilman Bird and part of the reason why to this point we've been able to come underneath and we've been doing really well but we've also been talking a lot about technology. The technology alone we're usually talking anywhere from 10's to 20,000 dollars within radios, MDT components and that type of stuff. Just for instance when we make the change over and thank goodness we're not the ones catching it at this point but we're changing over to a new program format that the Sheriff's Department is supervising through that Emergency Communications Act to take care of the program capability on our MDT's. Each individual copy of that software that's going on is 1,600 dollars per unit and I have 14 marked units out there each of them with an MDT in it. The dollars add up real quick when we look at that and every time I have to bring on a new vehicle now because we assume all of the MDT costs, the installation, the programming and setup on that that's an additional 1600 dollars that we're going to have to look at every time we put them on. Bird: Let me ask you a question within that 40,000 is that a video camera within the deal? Musser: We could do that if- Bird: -- within the 40,000? Musser: Within that 40,000 because we do have a buffer. I'll admit that there is a buffer there but the buffer is only about 4,000 dollars depending on where we go with insurance or what we end up having to run with on options for the cars. Bird: Let me ask you a question. Are those video cameras worth in liability suit and stuff like that? Are they worth it? Musser: They can be but again I would respond into the point where we don't have storage to be able to store video tapes right now but if we can move into a digitized format, look at something like a laser fische or some sort of digital recording format it would be real nice to be able to put digital type video cameras in there and then we have a very, very reduced storage problem that we're looking at and it makes it a lot more accessible for the City Attorneys, for the Meridian City Council Special Bl.ui:let Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 65 of 136 prosecution and then for being able to make copies to roll out to the defense attorneys as well. Bird: and if you get a liable suit or something like that it's nice to have it on film exactly what happened? Musser: Exactly. Bird: Would one - and I think that I personally think that the fische and the digital equipment has got to be a given for the new to set up and the new deal. I would hope that we could get cameras within our patrol cars for 40,000. De Weerd: But what we're dealing with here is just taking your top five priorities we're at 522,000. If we added your replacements you've eaten most of the unallocated funds. I'm just trying to find how these fit within the priority. Musser: Councilman de Weerd I think I can answer that real quickly. Our capital replacements are going to have to be right there at about one and a half between the new building and the second on the list. Without replacement cars we're going to be on foot real quick. Patrols vehicles 105,000, 96,000, 114,000 miles. T he detective car is 136,000, 117,000 and 103,000. Those cars are shot. They sit behind the station most of the time now. The SRO's are utilizing them. Without vehicles the one thing that the Police Department has to have to operate is motor vehicles. There is nothing we can do without cars so that capital replacement on those vehicles needs to be right up top there. Did that take care of it and answer your question? Bird: If we get real tight Chief, I know anything would be welcome but would two patrol cars get you by this year Captain Musser? Musser: We can make it work Councilman Bird. That's the bottom line if we have to make it work we make it work and we go from there. Bird: Because my priority is of course like you said the Number 1 the police (inaudible) and the digital and also the K-9. I just believe that having the - being fortunate enough to ride with a K-9 I just believe that's like having two fulltime officers on duty. Musser: I can understand that Councilman Bird. Within the K-9 we did include one car in there, which would definitely free up another vehicle with an officer in it. The only problem is, is that it still keeps at about 2.25 on officers per car. Where we're running our 7 days a week, 24 hours a day it adds up quick like you said with the hours on the cars. Bird: I don't disagree with that at all. Meridian City Council Special BUuget Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 66 of 136 Anderson: Captain Musser how much of the radio equipment and the MDT's does Ada County pay for out of the 911 monies when you guys buy a new car? Musser: At this point Councilman Anderson they do not pay for anything. The City of Meridian assumes all of those costs. The only thing that they initially bought were those initial setup items and then if they change over major programming or anything like what we just talked about they'll cover that major change over on those programs that go on it. That's it we assume everything else. Bird: Is this the same policy they use with Boise? Musser: To my understanding Councilman Bird that's exactly the same policy. When they buy a new vehicle they're responsible for all the new equipment that goes in it. The emergency communications fund doesn't buy any new equipment. It will pay for repair and maintenance on the MDT's but that's it. Bird: No purchase. Bowman: I might add too I sit on that board, the Public Safety Communications Board and this has been a continuing issue with the board is what does Emergency Communications pay for and what does the departments for. In answering your question about Boise Police that is with all the EMS, fire and law enforcement same thing for all of them. Corrie: Thank you. Any other questions? Bird: I have none. Corrie: Thank you Chief. Bird: Thank you guys. De Weerd: Thank you. Corrie: With that we will adjourn until 1 :00 and let Public Work's in here. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Recess at 11 :50 A.M. Returned at 1 :06 P.M. Corrie: All right folks we're ready to - Meridian City Council Special B'UI.ll,/et Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 67 of 136 De Weerd: -- good thing you didn't start the day off. You would be really disappointed with all the other departments. Smith: We didn't intend to do that. Corrie: Okay we'll come back into session at Public Work's, Water, Sewer, MUBS and Building Department from 1 :00 to 3:00 we may take a break between that time. We'll start (inaudible) Stacy give us a quick overview and then we'll give it to you folks. Kilchenmann: Mayor and Council we're going to spend most of the afternoon with the enterprise funds. Contrary to this morning you see that even after all of their requests they still have money left over. Gary will be kind of their main monitor here and we have gone through all of their enhancement decisions as well as their base. We actually reduced their base from what it traditionally has been trying to be more in keeping with what they're actually spending and gone through their enhancements quite carefully to make sure that we understood why they wanted it and if they could justify it so Gary. Smith: Thank you Stacy, Mayor and Council. The first thing I would like to do is introduce Brad Watson our City Engineer and we put together a short power point presentation for you kind of outlining our departments and the activities that our departments are involved in. At this point I'll turn it over to Brad and Bruce Freckleton will assist in moving through the slides. Watson: Thank you Gary, Mayor and Council. We've got a few handouts to give you so this will take a second. De Weerd: That was one comment I had Stacy these employee sheets. You really have to have good eyesight to see them. Kilchenmann: You (inaudible) the magnifying glass. De Weerd: It wasn't it the budget though right. Bird: At her and Anderson's age they don't need magnifying glasses the Mayor and I do. Corrie: You might put up there in the corner what color (inaudible). De Weerd: Now that we all know that he's colorblind. Bird: He's in trouble now that we know. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) (' Meridian City Council Special BUuget Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 68 of 136 Corrie: I'm sorry go ahead. Watson: Thank you Mayor and Council. As Gary said he asked us last week to put together sort of an initial overview of what we have been doing and what we do on a day-to-day basis. The first slide you'll see up here is just an organizational chart that shows the nearly 60 people that work under the umbrella of the Public Work's. Including the Engineering Departments, Water, Wastewater the Building Department and the Municipal Utility Billing Service. Together these five departments, on the next page, plan, construct, operate, and maintain, safe, attractive and functional facilities in a courteous, responsive, cost effective and professional manner. That's been our mission statement for a while. All of those departments strive to do that. De Weerd: Now how did the Watertower get behind your building? (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Watson: This picture's taken from Watertower up by the new police station site. De Weerd: I thought you guys were trying to (inaudible). Watson: To see if you're paying attention. Bird: It's going west on Watertower. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) De Weerd: Yours is even better than the Finance Department. Bird: I don't have any problem reading it. De Weerd: I'm sorry Brad. Watson: I actually have a gray scale that does show up a little better if you're interested in it. The next page shows some of the things that we've been doing. The highlights of those, the highlights of the highlights I guess would be through the process improvement group. We've improved subdivision plan review process. Councilman de Weerd was part of those initial meetings and I think improved that process tremendously. The other highlight is we moved to a new office building allowing the addition of more technical staff. I might point out that this presentation in itself was due a part to that new staff. He had a lot of familiarity with this program and did a lot of work on it. The next page and you can take time to read these later I'm not going to take a lot of time. One of the major things to point out with the Water Department is we do as you're well aware have a full time superintendent now who has devoted a lot of time to the MUB's Department and coordinating those two departments. Meridian City Council Special BiJu~etWorkshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 69 of 136 De Weerd: He cleans up very well too I see. Watson: Wait till fall, hunting season. De Weerd: It's nice to see your face. Watson: The Wastewater Department the major accomplishment this past year has been getting nearly 5 million dollars worth of construction online and in use and there are a few photos of that later in the presentation. The Building Department in summary has issued 530 single-family residential Building Permits and 27 Commercial Permits to date. The total value of permits through the first nine months has been 101 million dollars. One of the things to point out in those Commercial Permits is although there's only 27 of them those include quite a few substantial multifamily projects that took a lot of time on everybody's part. The next section of this just talks about what these departments do as far as private, residential and commercial developments. All of these departments are involved in this to some extent. From the initial stages, the initial meetings with developers talking about potential projects the one that comes to mind most readily is the Silverstone Subdivision. That has come through Council and been approved. There's an additional 80 acres across the street. This spring we've spent a lot of time in meetings coordinating with those two major developers and coincidently their water and sewer plans did get approved yesterday and are on their way to DEQ. Another project that has taken quite a bit of time as far as planning is the Ten Mile Road area between Franklin and 1-84. This is just kind of a - I attempted to do a panoramic view of that area. As you're aware we're in the initial stages of investigating short and long-term sewer solutions for that area. The next stage that we are involved in a lot is the initial plan approval stages. This Resolution Sub and Mountain View High School is kind of a different beast. It took a little more time than usual. It seems more and more these days we're having a multi-department coordination on these projects and Bear Creek Subdivision is a perfect example where we've got a major development, a city park, a well where and you can see the drill rigs set up there. We've got off site sewer lift stations and through to construction where the water and sewer departments get even more involved at least the water and inspection. There's some more construction. This is all occurring this spring to our final inspections, which involves also the Planning and Zoning Departments, the Fire Departments. The building Permit stage and finally occupancy. I didn't know if you guys had ever seen one of the lift stations up close and personal so I peered over the fence to try to get this for you so you could see what they actually look like. The commercial projects have been quite buried this year. We've got two of them right here next to each other. We've had the build out of the existing shopping center at Crossroads, a lot of pad sites going it to the notorious big box developments. I don't know if you can read that that's Wal-Mart back there in the background. Just another typical project. There's many like that one. These are the large multi-family projects I was speaking to earlier the various stages of Meridian City Council Special BuujJet Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 70 of 136 development. This one was supposed to get deleted but this is kind of combined with the next slide. As you can see there' s a wide variety in the commercial projects that we do process. We get past all the commercial projects and we get to the city projects. I know that there's a few very high profile ones that you are most interested in. We went out and gathered some photos of all the other ones that we've been working on for the last year trying to finish up. These range from the pre-planning stages again just like the private development. This is the future Black Cat Trunk path generally shown this is taken from Overland Road looking east. This is taken from Bear Creek looking northwest. We have water projects and we have many wells in the hopper. This one is under initial site evaluation and design this one is in the Silverstone area. It's just a cornfield right now. This is a good picture. This is one we're actively working on. This is typical of the type of easement we're trying to get from the South Slough Sewer and actually this really is where the sewer is supposed to go. It just kind of lets you know what we're dealing with as far as securing those easements. In fact our easement acquisition guy was supposed to be meeting with that homeowner this morning I believe. De Weerd: So what is your policy when you go through someone's back yard and Gary doesn't like trees next to it. Do you take their trees out? Watson: No in this particular- De Weerd: -- and then you have to mitigate from that right? Watson: We're having to make a lot of concessions on these easements. This particular one when they were first approached about open cut it was pretty much no. We talked to our engineer to see what else we could do. What we're looking at now is boring from their back lot line. There's an open field behind - their yard actually goes beyond this fence a little ways and then there's another fence. We would be boring from that open field out into Leslie Way of the public right of way. We're going to be a little more lenient with the trees. There's an out building that would actually be over the sewer. Not a permanent out building but a store more type building that's there. Anyway, that's just to show you what we're - what we've been working with. De Weerd: So you don't have to rip up their yards? Watson: No. We weighed that against landscaping mitigation costs and those costs were provided to us by J-U-B. Bird: There isn't really a lot of difference by the time you get it back into the way it was after you dug through and stuff. Your equipment they've bore through pretty - a boring machine goes pretty fast. ( Meridian City Council Special Buagel Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 71 of 136 Watson: Right, the saving grace on this particular project is there are three separate bores. This one and the two across Eagle Road so hopefully there's some economy of scale at least on the normal boring costs. These are a couple of projects that are in construction phase, Well 21 over by the Watertower, the generator out at the blower building at the Wastewater Plant that we are desperately trying to get online which should be - a couple weeks ago a couple of weeks away. The end of July. They lost power out there for several hours a couple weekends ago and it was a little nerve racking. This is another project that was completed this spring. We brought city water into the pant circled the plant, provided fire hydrants and obviously fire protection to those buildings that to this point had only had a couple draft hydrants out of the basins. This is another completed project. This is my favorite picture of the whole presentation. You can see the stuff falling off the conveyor there. Bird: That's called solid waste isn't it? Watson: It's called bio-solids. Bird: Bio-solids. De Weerd: I'm so glad you pointed that out too. Watson: At this point it's more like a mud that's the consistency of it, dried mud. They used to hall liquid sludge in a liquid tanker and shoot it out onto the fields. This is a - they use a slinger more like a manure spreader and it's reduced their trips. Like I said about 10 fold. De Weerd: I think you spend too much time with John. Corrie: (Inaudible) like alcohol (inaudible) it ages one year. Watson: No there's a machine. There's about a 325,OOO-dollar machine up inside that building that just spins the heck out of this stuff and spins the water out. It's really a nice project. Corolla Engineers put that together. Bird: (inaudible) fertilize Tammy's yard won't you? De Weerd: They're starting to do that. Watson: Let's go to the next slide and I'll explain that a little far. The new digester facility has brought us into the Class A bio-solids, which means there's really no site restrictions on where you can use it. Before it was a Class B sludge and it came a long with a lot of strings attached. This is a very good product. I think the nurseries are even interested in using it. ( Meridian City Council Special Buoget Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 72 of 136 Shawcroft: Yes we have to finish approving the Class A (inaudible) but after that the restrictions (inaudible). Watson: John Shawcroft just said that they have to go through an approving process before this can have all restrictions listed. De Weerd: I would be more than happy to use it in my yard. Number 1 on the list right? Watson: Yes. Anderson: (Inaudible) go over there and get you started (inaudible) some on you r yard. Watson: It's good stuff. De Weerd: You're disgusting. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Watson: This is just one of the last Wastewater Plant projects we'll show. This was just an addition to the head works. We mechanically we tripled the capacity, structurally it's built out to it's 9 million gallon per day size so that we can plug in more units in the future. Everything we do out there is built with expansion in mind so that we don't have to redo a lot structural components. This was the Ustick Reservoir Landscape Project that was completed this spring. It's looking real nice. De Weerd: It's very nice. Watson: Yes there's a few weeds out in the- (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Watson: I think that's on Park's property actually the weed part. De Weerd: Probably. He just didn't get the just in bringing that up. Watson: I'm sorry I'm taking longer than I should have. I'll speed through this a little bit. These next couple slides are just to show all the coordination that goes on with our projects. The first one is the Bridgetower Project with Mr. Bews, Mr. Davis and Mr. Varialle. We had to run a relief line through their property pretty much the same time they were constructing. We got our sewer line past that bridge about 24 hours before they started building (inaudible) on the north side. This is again Mr. Sews' project where he constructed some of the 36-inch trunk. We took it from Creason Lateral and plugged it into the plant last winter. Again, Meridian City Council Special Buuget Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 73 of 136 the Five Mile Relief we had to work with Mr. Stubblefield quite a bit and surface repair was a very important issue with him. I think he's happy with that. We had to coordinate with Park's Department on a daily basis during the construction of this portion of the Five Mile Relief. You can see their pathway is pretty much completed there. The arrows to show approximately where the sewer was installed. We're not completely, completely done with that there are still some diversion structures that the contractor needs to install this week and next week. This is the last photo it just shows the multi-agency coordination, property owner coordination with this Locust Grove Rebuild. It seems like a simple project you just run services, sewer and water to the remaining properties along there but this has been a lengthy project. Bruce Stewart has spent I don't how many hours putting this together. It's out to bid right now and will be constructed in August according to ACHD's schedule. There again, we just kind of reiterate the mission statement and in the background you can just see all of the projects that we've been working on this year. Many of them have been completed. Understandably there's a couple high profile ones that are getting there. With that I'll turn this over to Gary. He's going to go over the Public Work's Budget unless there are any questions you have for me. De Weerd: No, thank you. Bird: Very good Brad. Watson: Thank you. Smith: Thank you Brad. I want to give a special thanks to Brad and Bruce Freckleton and our new Engineer Len Grady for putting that presentation together for you this afternoon. You did a great job. The first part of our budget that I wanted to cover with you is our Public Work's Department Budget. I think the majority of our expenditures from last year we didn't have any increase in our budget for this year. Moving into our new building presented some extra costs to us last year. We do have some additional costs in the rent payment or the lease payment for that building. I don't know what your format has been in terms of presentation of the budget but I guess I would just accept any questions that you might have about any of the items that we've outlined on the budget for the Public Work's Department. Anderson: What we've been doing Gary is just having you go over primarily the enhancements and put a priority to them. We have a flip chart up here, as far as if you would list in priority which ones you feel is important to you. Smith: Okay. Anderson: Maybe one of your staff could list them while you talk about them. Meridian City Council Special BUl.J!Jet Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 74 of 136 De Weerd: I did have a question and I think I asked Stacy this but did you build into your budgets anticipating positions that you may have to do some salary increases? Smith: No I didn't not their salary other than the cost of living. De Weerd: Just kind of like what came up this last year with a couple of the positions that you wanted to make that wage a little bit more competitive out at the Wastewater Treatment Plant and do you have that buffer built in here? Smith: No, not for Public Work's Department. De Weerd: So that if something comes up you have the ability to increase the salaries. Smith: Now, we were told that any increase in salaries as far as that end of it was - if it did develop that we would just need to come back to you for a request for changing the budget. Anderson: But you did adjust those one positions right last year? You adjusted some positions last year that were out of grade that you couldn't' hire somebody? Smith: Right. Anderson: So did you use that as your new base when you figured the salary this year? Smith: Well the salaries were all figured for us through the Financial Director. Kilchenmann: Maybe I can answer that. Mayor and Council those salaries that were increased are in all of their bases. They actually did want to put the buffer in and I made them take it out. I felt like we should go through Human Resources and have real specific numbers then if we discovered a problem we could come back to you and ask to amend the budget. Since their budget isn't such an issue of having the funds available. Bird: I agree with you Stacy that's something that can be taken care of because we don't know what the market's going to - a year from now or six months from now we don't know what the market is going to be at. A lot of engineers could be laid off and be looking for work or same token. Anderson: I agree. Last year we were more of a quandary as far as the budgeting process on what we're going to do for raises and that kind of stuff. Last year having the buffer was fine but I don't think that ought to be an every year practice. ( Meridian City Council Special BUul,jet Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 75 of 136 Bird: I agree with you Ron. Smith: So the salaries that we have in our budget are the salaries that are presently being paid to the employees. Right, and any changes that we've made last year are included in that budget item. De Weerd: You feel comfortable with the salaries that you might have to be recruiting this year? Smith: Well I can only say at this point I do yes. We were able to hire an engineer for the salary that we have in the schedule right now. I don't know. As job markets change those things change too or can change I guess. At this point I don't know of any needs to change those salary requirements. De Weerd: Okay thank you. Smith: The first Item is our AutoCAD Software. Our request there is for an update of - actually it's a maintenance issue for our existing licenses. I think we're also going to add a, was it a land development Bruce. Land Development Item for AutoCAD. One license for a Land Development Program. Those are operating expenditures. Then we have some capital outlay expenses, which would be purchasing new licenses. Those previous costs are kind of a maintenance program for upgrades of existing licenses. We have to have a license for each machine that operates the AutoCAD Program and that's a regulation. I'm not sure who sets that if it's FCC or ORS or whatever but it's a law right. Anderson: So what does the Land Development License what is it? What's that software? What does it do? Watson: Councilman Anderson, Mayor and Council that is what most engineers use to prepare plans based on field survey. At this point we can do design as long as it doesn't have anything to do with survey. This would give one machine capability. We would hire somebody to go out and survey then come and dump all the information into our computer and he could actually do a small waterline project along the road or something like that. Right now we don't have the capability to pull that information into our drawings. As we get busier and busier and we've got some staff that are pretty technically adapt right now they could do some of these smaller projects in house and save some consultant fees. That's the goal with this. Anderson: And are these your priorities Gary? Is this the Number 1 priority? Smith: I hadn't really analyzed this in terms of priorities Ron I don't know. We need - what we have listed here are items that we need for this coming budget year. I didn't go into a prioritization of which one is the most in need. ( Meridian City Council Special BUaget Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 76 of 136 Anderson: Or you can list them all and then prioritize them when you're done because we have asked all Department Heads to prioritize them and they all think that they need to have everything on their list just like you do but we would like to have them prioritized. Smith: Okay we can do that. Software upgrade. This is a one-time expenditure. These are upgrading our operating system to Microsoft version 2000. We've got 13 machines being upgraded. That's Microsoft Office and then Microsoft Project and Windows 2000, This is just an efficiency upgrade for our machine's to operate. We should have by August, mid August we should have our water model, computer water model operable in house. We've already purchased that software. I'm not sure Bruce on our equipment, our existing equipment as far as operating that computer model for the Water System. Freckleton: Yes the last computers that we purchased are kind of designed for doing that so it won't take any hardware upgrade for it. Smith: Microfilming we have some additional microfilming we would like to do this year for records that we have, project files (inaudible) storage or little used files to get rid of the boxes and get the records into a microfilm status. Provide us better access to get to the records and we did some last year. We were able to purchase a reader machine so we're working towards record storage via microfilming, Some file drawer cabinets that we need to purchase for our projects that are active. That's the most recent active files I guess you would say. Those that we still use. Secretary equipment the Public Work's Department has budgeted a secretarial position for this year. We haven't filled that position yet. I've got a staffing requisition about half way filled out for Human Resources so we can start advertising. This would purchase some furniture for that secretarial position. We do have telephone and computer available for that position that we've already purchased. The last item is computer hardware. This is a ram upgrade. The Lenox cube Bruce can you shed some light on that for us? Freckleton: I'll try. Our existing network server is about three and a half years old. It's getting to a point where we either need to do some upgrading of it to bring it into current standards. We had talked about trying to do some different things with our email and being able to do some shared calendar exchange in the office, We had been thinking about using Microsoft Exchange and some new technology has come along with this Lenox cube that allows you to install - it's a piece of hardware that you install and it takes over the function of all of your email functions and that sort of thing. So our existing server we wouldn't have to do any upgrades on it. It would become more file sharing and take over those types of functions. The Lenox cube would take over the email functions. I believe this is the exact same piece of hardware and equipment that the Police Department is installing too. By using the Lenox cube it keeps us from having to ( Meridian City Council Special 81..o",!;let Workshop July 17,2001 Pg. 77 of 136 do something different with our existing server and we'll be able to extend the life of it a little bit more. Smith: Thank you. Then we have two computer monitor keyboards that we're needing to replace and upgrade. Both of those items are in the capital outlay position. De Weerd: You don't give us much opportunity to give you a hard time. This is just really - Bird: -- I've got one question Gary. You have no - in Public Work's are not budgeting for any new employees this year? Smith: No sir. Bird: Your staff is to the fullest that you need to be? Smith: Yes for this year. As soon as I fill that secretarial position I think we're in good shape. That secretarial position was budgeted for this year. Bird: I know (inaudible). Anderson: Have you just not hired that person yet? Smith: Right, yes. Bird: You feel comfortable with our staff we got within Public Work's now? Smith: Yes. Bird: Thank you. Smith: You're welcome. De Weerd: This is just too unreal. Bird: You guys aren't asking for too much are you? You're not asking for too much are you? You're not asking for too much? You haven't seen the other enhancements. Smith: It's too late to change though. (Inaudible). I went around several times and asked staff now is there anything else that we need. Are there any deficiencies here and this is what I got. Bird: We appreciate it. ( Meridian City Council Special B"'u~et Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 78 of 136 De Weerd: We appreciate your staff too. Bird: We appreciate it so much. Smith: Yes I do too. I appreciate our staff very much. They do a great job and I'm very proud of them each and every one. In terms of prioritization - De Weerd: We see everyone's (inaudible) projects. Bird: It's all tied in isn't it it's all a Number 1 priority? Smith: Just make a big one along side of it. Microfilming desk storage we could put that at the end. We're stacking boxes and so forth but that doesn't need to be - that's not a necessity. I think we need to - we obviously have to have the secretarial equipment. Bird: The AutoCAD's you have to have don't you Gary? Smith: Yes our AutoCAD our upgrade of our Windows. De Weerd: So those would be one and two right? Smith: I think that would probably be one and two. Corrie: (Inaudible) engineer here. Bird: Yes plus or minus (inaudible) they don't put the numerical. They've got to get their singles in there. Smith: You want one, two, three, four and five? Anderson: That's what everybody else - I think it's fair Keith to ask them to do this. Rather or not we can fund all of them I would like to see numbers. We've done that with everybody and we need to be consistent. De Weerd: Yes and I don't understand numbers I'm a number person. I see that two remains the same. The AutoCAD is one, Software two. Bird: No the station is. That's one, microfilming is eight. De Weerd: I should have worn my glasses. I only have six. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) ***End Of Side Five*** { Meridian City Council Special Buu~et Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 79 of 136 Anderson: Yes your first two are shown together. The Land Development and AutoCAD. Bird: That's Number 3. So is your three and four your computer and computer hardware is shown together. Or four and five I'm sorry. De Weerd: Then you have four computers to be replaced? Bird: That was all part - that's all part of the computer. De Weerd: No, I (inaudible) to replace in the department summary. If you go to your first page. Bird: I'm right here on the page. De Weerd: No you're not. Bird: Computer, Monitor and keyboard two for 4,000. De Weerd: Keith it's right after the scale again. At the very beginning of your section under Public Work's. Bird: This is enhancement this is your enhancement. De Weerd: I know but we're also figuring in replacements. We're not doing any different process. Bird: Oh, they have four computers up there. Anderson: On this list here what we asked him to cover was in his enhancements and he only has six. De Weerd: But we also want to know replace (inaudible). Anderson: I understand we do but that's not what we asked him to do here. Bird: That's not what we asked him to do. De Weerd: Okay. Bird: That's all part of one. Anderson: They should have six enhancements that's what we have in here. Bird: That's right. ( Meridian City Council Special BuulJet Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 80 of 136 Anderson: They should have in order of one through six. Then what you're talking about is back here under the replacement stuff. De Weerd: Thanks. Bird: Thanks guys. De Weerd: I'm sorry we already gave them the okay to (inaudible) we forgot you're kind of slow. Gary, with your water vehicles your trucks do you have a fleet maintenance program and do you get bids or special discounts or anything like that? Smith: For maintenance of vehicles? De Weerd: maintenance, oil changes just general stuff? Smith: No, we just take - for maintenance we take it to the Quick Lube down here on Fairview. Repairs, it depends on what it is as to where it goes. If it's a warranty item of course it goes back to the dealer. We don't have a fleet maintenance program for our vehicles. De Weerd: I just wandered with all the vehicles in the city if we should be looking with dealing with one particular agency to do all that. Maybe we can get a better discount. It seems like each one of our departments do it at some place else and we'll never get a group discount on that. It just might be something worth looking into. Corrie: It depends on whether you go to state bid or not. (Inaudible) state bid it probably won't bid any different than that. Bird: Yes I was going to say you probably- De Weerd: -- well as far as oil changes. Smith: We haven't had any service issues with the Public Work's Department Trucks. Wastewater takes care of their own equipment they've got mechanics on site out there that takes care of the rest of the equipment in the plant and they're mechanically able to take care of the majority of the vehicle problems. I don't know if you - John are you getting any - sending any vehicles to repair shops for mechanical repair? Shawcroft: Some I know that if it's air conditioning or something like that it goes to either Meridian Ford or whoever. I know the lubricant account that we've got down at Jiffy Lube that came about from trying to get a fleet cost. I know you go there, we go there and Water goes there because for what they charge you for the full service we can't do it in house. Meridian City Council Special BiJuget Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 81 of 136 De Weerd: Maybe we need to cost compare what prices they're getting compared to what the Police or Park's. Smith: I suppose it would come down to the amount of money that's spent on repair work each year and compare that with what it would cost to create a - now are you talking about an in house maintenance program? De Weerd: Just probably basic maintenance just oil - Bird: -- no she's talking about having all our trucks under one - all of our vehicles not just trucks- De Weerd: -- just mainly maintenance. Bird: On service and maintenance stuff. Smith: Not repair but maintenance? De Weerd: Right. Bird: Public Work's has basically done theirs. The Police Department takes theirs to a certain station where they get their good deals. The Park's I don't know how they do theirs, how they work theirs. The Fire, the few trucks that they have serviced goes to a certain place. I'm sure they're getting the best price. I agree with you Tammy that we need to look into getting - I think we get in the habit - not only that you've got to look at more than just the cost. How good of service do they do you? Do they jump in and do emergencies for you? Do you lose an engine and need the truck back and can this guy get it out for you? I think a lot of that (inaudible). Anderson: I think those would be things that Stacy, during the course of the year can kind of do additional research. Like Gary said really get into the budget, look at all the different departments and how much are we spending on vehicle maintenance, how much of that is labor, how much is parts all those types of things. At some point and I don't think we're going to be there for several years but then it maybe more efficient for the city to start their own vehicle maintenance and maybe prior to doing that there could be some cost savings by going to somebody like Jiffy Lube and saying hey if we take all of our city business here then what kind of price would you quote us. At this point I would think that would need more research. De Weerd: Oh yes. Smith: There are probably some things too that they can do for us such as serpentine belt change or flushing the transmissions or flushing radiators that { Meridian City Council Special Buuget Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 82 of 136 need to be done not often but during the vehicles life that needs to be done at least once and maybe twice. Jiffy Lube's available I mean they can do that kind of service. Bird: That's good. Smith: The Building Department the only thing that we have for enhancements there is to replace a computer. This in our four-year replacement program and this is Mindy's computer. It's an old RJM machine that needs to be upgraded or replaced I should say. Anderson: What's this under? Smith: Building Department. De Weerd: Building Department under special services. Smith: Excuse me under special services right. I think that was our only enhancement wasn't it Stacy for the Building Department? We're okay with personnel there as far as the front office staff. The only thing that we've got to consider this year is whether we're going to be contracting building inspection or not. I've talked to Daunt already about it and advised him that it's being considered to make a change. I guess that decision needs to be made shortly between myself and you folks and taking into account what Ron's suggestion was when we talked about it some time ago that we would phase into this sort of thing if we proceed in that direction. Anderson: You had brought a proposal to us it seems like about the middle of the winter that had a breakdown or a recommendation on hiring one versus two. You had vehicles and office and all of that. Do you have any of that here now (inaudible )7 Smith: I don't have it now. I don't have it with me. I'll get it back to you tomorrow if that's all right. Anderson: That would be handy to look at those numbers again and just review the research that you had already done. I guess it's been enough months ago that my memory's fuzzy on what those numbers were now. Smith: Right, you bet I'll get that for you tomorrow. Do you have any questions on the Building Department? I guess our priority would be the replacement of that machine. That would be it. Anderson: Would that be your priority that would be Number 1? Bird: Is that Number 1 and 8 together? ( Meridian City Council Special BiJu~et Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 83 of 136 Smith: Yes sir. De Weerd: Your requests are really overwhelming. Bird: Yes it's unbelievable. Smith: I suspect we didn't put enough thought into this. De Weerd: I see it's going to come though. Bird: That's good Gary thanks. Smith: Are there any questions on the Building Department? If not I want to have our superintendents for both Wastewater and Water make a presentation of their enhancements to you. I'll start off with the Wastewater Department, John Shawcroft our superintendent. De Weerd: See now we get into the real stuff. Shawcroft: The real money. Anderson: Now we get back into one of those guys that asks for everything. Shawcroft: Mayor and Council it's a pleasure to be here to do this. It only seems like a year ago that we did this. Corrie: So far you're making points. Bird: What did Gary do tell you to have all the budget enhancements for the whole Public Work's? Shawcroft: Just about I think. It seems I know that when I got done there was an awful lot of them. There's only one replacement that we have and that's for a 93 GMC Pickup three quarter ton that we've had. It's nine years old. Basically we've just used it hard. It stood up fairly well it's on its second transmission and needs some engine work and brake work and bodywork. If we repair it if we still have a vehicle it's nine years old. Anderson: How many miles does it have on it? Shawcroft: Right now it's got 116,000. Bird: What year is it? Shawcroft: It's a 93. Meridian City Council Special BUuget WorkShOp July 17, 2001 Pg. 84 of 136 Anderson: It's a three quarter ton? Shawcroft: Three quarter ton yes. De Weerd: It's at two transmissions? Shawcroft: It's on it's second. A reason that's a three quarter ton is I keep two vehicles at the Wastewater Plant that are capable of pulling the hydro cleaner in case of an emergency. Normally we hire the cleaning of the sewer lines but it's not in their contract to come out in the middle of the night and break something loose so we keep a machine just for that. It's fairly heavy and a half ton won't pull it so we keep a pair of three quarter tons around. Bird: Is it an automatic transmission? Shawcroft: It is. It is an automatic transmission. Bird: Basically it's set up to pull that equipment? Shawcroft: Yes it is. So is the second one. We do have a 19 I believe it's a 97 Ford three quarter ton that is a good shape. That's the primary vehicle now for pulling that piece of equipment. If that happened for some reason to go out for service or whatever than I think we're set up now to where probably if we replace this three quarter ton a half ton. I do have other options as for pulling this hydro cleaner. Now we have a dump truck, we have a ton and a half service truck. Did we want to go through these as far as one, two and three priority? Is that easier than just going and trying to do them later? De Weerd: Yes. Shawcroft: I would say Number 1 would be the additional monies for the Wastewater Plant upgrade. It's 435,000 dollars. That is for a project that was funded this budget year and according to Mr. Watson the funds that we have budgeted are not enough to complete the project. Also, Number 2 I'm going to throw three of these in on Number 2. Anything to do with the laboratory, which is an ongoing project for this year, I would put in there. Things like laboratory database, the phone system, which wasn't included with the building, and the furnishings, which are also things that aren't - you know you just have to finish furnishing the building when you're done building it. De Weerd: And the lab that was built this year? Shawcroft: It has not even gone to bid I'm sorry to say. De Weerd: But it's one of your budgeted projects. Meridian City Council Special BuugetWorkshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 85 of 136 Shawcroft: Yes it is one of my budgeted projects that was supposed to be done this year. We are hoping for completion in October and I'm now hoping for you know commencement of construction by October. That would be nice. It seems that it's just quite a ways behind for one reason or another. Three would be pre- design of the Wastewater Treatment Plant upgrades. That is to get 50 percent design work on the rest of the upgrades to 9 million gallons per day at the Wastewater Plant. What that does for us is it gives one some probably some probably some spatial reference to the rest of the plant and also probably I believe some better budget numbers down the line. Four would be Plant 0 & M manual. We are required by DEQ to have a manual for the Wastewater Plant. The last time it was updated was 1997 done by yours truly and is of dubious value. This money would be to make an interactive CD operation and maintenance manual. One that could be continually upgraded as the plant expands and also one that A an operator that's in training can go in and look things up see why they work, how they work, what's normal, what's abnormal, what do I do if it brakes. That's what this would do. Five would be the Waste Thickener. We are currently running the Wastewater Plant with a thickener that was designed for 2.82 MGD million gallons per day and we're typically trading right now anywhere from three and a half to four. We're wasting at around 15 to 18 hours a day. It's practically almost in continuous use. There is no redundancy for it if it brakes we're in dire straights. That's (inaudible) priority to fix it. Six would be slip lining the creek crossings. We did have a failure in the Ten Mile line creek crossing that comes over Five Mile Creek if you folks remember that. This money is to go out, take a look at the rest of the crossings that we have in the city and put an inner lining into them if they're structurally sound. If they're not structurally sound we intend to replace them and then slip line them. Bird: At that point do you put an either an inner or outer lining on the replacement pipe that goes across am I not right? Shawcroft: It's an inner lining. Bird: The inner lining that goes in? Shawcroft: Yes. Bird: Once we replace one it's got the lining and everything in it. Shawcroft: It will have the lining in it right. I know the one that we did in the emergency repaired does not have one. It had a coating but how long that coating's good for you know I would hate (inaudible). Bird: But you had no choice on that? I Meridian City Council Special Buoget Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 86 of 136 Shawcroft: No, that was a let's do it now. Bird: That was an emergency get it done. You guys didn't have a choice. Shawcroft: I think what it does is it does send a signal to DEQ and EPA that we're aware that this is a possibility and we're taking care of it ahead of time. Bird: Good. Shawcroft: Seven would be I think the additional personnel the mechanic and the centrifuge operator. I have currently - am hiring one vacant that was approved last year. I will be looking at hiring another one that was approved this year. The monies that were at the time budgeted are insufficient to hire the type of person that we need which they'll be addressing later that issue. These two new people I say are to enhance the mechanics and help with the bio-solids and part time also the lines. Bird: Do these wages reflect competitive on the street wages? Shawcroft: I wouldn't swear to it. This is a - right now to be perfectly honest I don't know what the street value is for an operator. I know that Nampa and Boise are very, very competitive with people outside the state in order to attract this type of person. Certifications become an issue and I know that those wage adjustments we did this year for those operators was an emergency situation because they could walk down the road five miles and pick up anywhere from 5 to 900 dollars a month same job. Bird: That's what I - see you're asking for two a Mechanic I and an operator and you're only - I don't know how much you've got for operator and much you've got for mechanic but even if you split it down the center we weren't able to hire or even come close to hiring an operator for that price. Shawcroft: Right and I think that's something that needs to be resolved between Human Resources and Finance and us. I know what this reflects is a current starting wage for the current rate scale that Meridian has. Bird: Do we know -- and your department is under. Shawcroft: And that needs to be looked at. At the current time that's alii have to go by. Even though I put it in there this way that may not reflect what it will actually cost the city to get that person. Bird: Yes but I think we need to be realistic in these enhancements John and if you don't think you - which I don't think you can probably come - you might get an operator for that but you're not going to get a mechanic on top of that from what you've had to pay. I think in this enhancement this is kind of a wish list that ( Meridian City Council Special BuuyetWorkshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 87 of 136 we can have we need to reflect that. So if we need to change that 75,000 or 76,000 basically to 95,000 to get to a comparable positions we need to put that in here right now. Shawcroft: I have - I think that's an issue for those two people and I also like I was saying the two current people that I have. I'm hiring a Lab Technician and the monies that are in there are I guess I'm robbing Peter to pay Paul. I have two vacancies and I can only hire one. Bird: But this is in the current budget right now so we don't have to go back next year and do this same thing. This enhancement needs to reflect what you believe those positions are going to cost us and I don't believe that you can cover those two positions for 76,000 dollars. We need right now to get that changed to 100,000 or whatever you think it's going to cost to fund those two positions realistically. Shawcroft: So I need to talk to Human Resources or I know she's been doing some research with Boise and Nampa to find out where we stand. I don't have that data from her. Bird: You've got a pretty good idea what this is costing you to get your operator. Shawcroft: Right. Bird: What is he costing you? What's a mechanic going to cost you? You're not going to get it any cheaper than you've got on this year next year. Shawcroft: No, that's true. Bird: So we need to add those two together. Those two together are going to go far above the 76,000 dollars so this is not a true - if we sat down and said yes John you can have these two positions for 76,000 it's not going to happen. Shawcroft: I agree. Bird: So we need a true figure right now whether it's a bloated figure but a pretty good one I feel to put in this number right now. Anderson: But Keith what I'm hearing John say and I agree is that instead of him just blurting out a number right now we don't have to set the budget today. (Inaudible) is that Stacy and HR and John can get together, figure out what that appropriate salary is, and let us know before we set the budget. Corrie: HR is looking at it right now. Meridian City Council Special BUl..l~et Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 88 of 136 Shawcroft: They are. Right so what I did in the enhancement was put in what the starting wage or what the current level says it should be even though we know it's not right. I don't have any basis to give you any of the figures yet. I'll use that word yet. De Weerd: Now in your positions that you have in this budget year are they correctly adjusted for your base budget of next year? Shawcroft: Not yet no. They are not. De Weerd: That's another thing that she's also researching. Your base budget can still change. Shawcroft: Yes and Stacy I believe will be presenting that later is that correct? Kilchenmann: We just got that from HR and I think it will be an additional 18,000 that we need to add to his base and then he should be okay. Bird: 18,000 to the base? Shawcroft: That's for the two that I've got now but not for the two that we're trying to add. De Weerd: Okay so we add 18,000 to your base personnel cost and then we'll still wait for new figures for your enhancement request? Shawcroft: Right and Pauline is aware that we need to do this. Bird: Does this 18,000 for the new budget include the raise and everything like that, all the costs and everything? Kilchenmann: Yes total cost. Bird: Total cost. Kilchenmann: If we go through and she changes or we change the range for the mechanic we'll have to go back in and I think you probably have to change the people that are in the existing positions. It would be increase his enhancement and then it would also go back in and increase his base budget. De Weerd: So we can still have an increase in the base. Shawcroft: Boy, I didn't think it would be that difficult but I know it would be. I guess enhancement 8 would be a 1 ,OOO-gallon diesel tank to be constructed at the Wastewater Plant. That last power outage that we had was about eight and a half hours and our diesel tanks were running low. We were finally able to get ( Meridian City Council Special BUu~et Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 89 of 136 Brico to come in and top them but had it been a holiday or a long weekend when everybody's gone that might not have been possible. Bird: This is a permanent tank you're putting in right John? Shawcroft: Yes this is a permanent tank. Something that we can have - if it's electrically pumped out, we'll have it hooked to a generator so that we can pump it out and move the fuel wherever we need it. Anderson: I have a question on that. How long will this run your generators just 1,000 gallons? Shawcroft: It will get us by probably for 24 to 48 hours depending on whether it's a holiday, weekend, or a weekday. Our biggest flows come on weekends when everybody's home doing their laundry doing whatever. We notice that we treat on average an additional half million gallons a day. Anderson: Is this an above ground like a convult or what is it? Shawcroft: Yes it will be an above ground with containment and all the requirements. I don't think that any more there's any - I don't think anybody other than service stations are bearing their tanks anymore. With the underground storage tank requirements, it's fairly spendy. Anderson: Anybody who is dispensing fuel has to put it underground it's a code requirement. Shawcroft: Yes and we're not - I think this size can be put above ground with the containment. Anderson: But by questioning the size of this being big enough if you're so concerned about the availability of fuel on a holiday weekend or a three day weekend you're only talking about something that's only going to run you from 24 to 48 maybe you ought to be looking at a 1500 or 2000 gallon. Shawcroft: And that may be. I know that if we start out with the diesel tanks and the generators full that they'll go for at least 16 hours. So with an additional thousand that will add another 16 that's full load. Depending - it's like your car it makes a difference on whether you're running uphill, downhill and this is the same thing. It depends on how much load you're carrying as to how far it will go. You may be right but I don't think that an economy of scale there would be much difference between 1,000 and 1,500. Anderson: I'm just saying if it's a difference of getting you through a long holiday weekend or not if that's what your concern is. If you don't think, that's an issue than - ( Meridian City Council Special BuuyetWorkshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 90 of 136 Shawcroft: -- I think 1,000 gallons would get us through I really do. At least as the plant currently stands. You may be quite correct when we add other portions to the plant on later. Bird: But while we're putting it in why not like Councilman Anderson says why not put in a larger one that we know the plant is going to expand? Anderson: And you're going to add more backup generation too aren't you? Shawcroft: Yes that's true we will. Also, in an emergency we would probably be giving fuel to the Fire Department, Water Department. I guess we could size this permanent above ground as we can re-evaluate the fuel consumption for the future for all of those departments and size accordingly. Bird: And put it in one time and one time only. Shawcroft: Yes. Bird: I think it would be a wise move on our part to do that because we know that you're going to - like Ron says you're going to need more generators out there, as the plant expands. Why not do this once bite the bullet once and forget about it instead of having to come back in five years and say we need 2,000 gallons so now we're going to have to take this 1,000 out or we're going to have to add another 1 ,000 somewhere else. Shawcroft: Right. Bird: Get all the EPA and all that stuff done with at one time. Shawcroft: Right we could double that expenditure and do that. Bird: I agree. De Weerd: So you'll get us a new figure? Shawcroft: I will get you a new figure absolutely. Number 9 I believe would be the landscape and lawn mower. We have over the past eight years every year done something to improve the landscape at the Wastewater Plant to make it more presentable. Recently, we've started adding landscaping to the front adding lawn with the subdivision encroachment we want it to be as presentable as possible. That's what that's for is to go ahead and add sprinklers and complete out that lawn addition in the front of the plant. Anderson: What kind of mower are you looking at? I' Meridian City Council Special B~llgetWorkShoP July 17, 2001 Pg. 91 of 136 Shawcroft: What we're hoping to do - I talked to Mr. Kuntz and he assured me that we could probably pick up a used mower for about this price on the open market as far as say from another Park's Department or something. We obviously don't need as good of mower as what they have or want. Anderson: I guess I was asking that because in his presentation this morning he was telling us about how he needed a new mower because he was maintaining all these other city departments the Fire and he assumed he'd be doing the Police. I'm just curious why he can't be doing the Waste Treatment plant if he's going to be doing these other departments. If we do allow him to buy an additional mower they were talking about having a mowing crew than I don't see why we would need to buy one here. Shawcroft: I just would say that historically before there was what I would call a large Park's Department we contracted it and the contracting was less than satisfactory. We would still end up having to go trim, do our own sprinkler repair and I have no I guess experience as to what kind of job the Park's does. Anderson: Go down to Storey Park and you can look. Shawcroft: Do I have to? De Weerd: I like your self-sufficiency I think that's great. Shawcroft: I think that when we do it ourselves we have a vested interested in how that looks and we're very picky. That is not to be a slant at the Park's Department that is just - ever since we've taken it over and done it ourselves we've been happy with the way it looks. Corrie: I would hope so if you knew (inaudible). Bird: I was going to say he better. Shawcroft: I really have a difficult time with putting the rest of these in any particular order there after that barely waited evenly. Except Ashford Greens and that's probably a higher priority than where I've got it. Ashford Greens lift station needs some up sized pumps where and this is just phase what is it two? Bird: Ashford Greens is practically a have to isn't it John and Brad? Shawcroft: Yes. Bird: I mean I don't see how it can be down at Number 9. Shawcroft: I don't think it is I think I just slipped it - Meridian City Council Special BUu~et Workshop July 17. 2001 Pg. 92 of 136 Bird: -- that would go along with Number 1 in my part even though that's a plan upgrade at least - this is a system upgrade that has to be done. Shawcroft: Yes that would be up with Number 1 I just missed it on my list here. In fact if Brad hadn't told me- Bird: -- that Ashford lift station upgrade it's something that we can't put off. Shawcroft: Right. De Weerd: It can be 1 B. Shawcroft: 1 B. Thank you. De Weerd: Before we got an arrow, in there I thought I would give you (inaudible ). Bird: So that leaves the landscaping at nine then right Brad? Watson: Yes. Shawcroft: Nine let's see I'm on 10 how about the asphalt repair and additional asphalt. The plant is getting bigger and we've got a side road that we would like to pave. We have to- Bird: -- on the south one. Shawcroft: On the south one yes - finish paving that. De Weerd: Is it gravel right now? Shawcroft: It's gravel right now and it's a continual maintenance item. We have to go back re-blade it and redo it. De Weerd: I think right now the city has a commitment as well for air mitigation. Shawcroft: Yes and it gets dusty. De Weerd: We want to pave whenever we can. Shawcroft: It also includes a chip seal on the front drive in. It's cracked. It's had heavy truck traffic and we're trying to get it to last until the upgrades are done and then we'll replace it. We're hoping this will give us an additional five years. It also includes a I would say a square in the back that we could put bio-solids on and keep them out of the drying beds in case we need to put liquid in them. It would just be an operational enhancement. Eleven is tertiary by-pass line. Our Meridian City Council Special Buuget Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 93 of 136 tertiary filters - our flow is up such that right now it's almost impossible to drain one of those and keep it dry while you're looking on it. It's just a line to go around and move the flow around it so we keep it in the dry as I said. Twelve is the remodel of the control room which is just to add a break room for the - a larger break room for the operators. That will occupy where the old back tea lab is currently. There's no low bearing walls to move it's just knock down the old ones and upgrade the cabinets and just give them a little more room. Anderson: When was this building built wasn't it just last year? Shawcroft: This building was built in 1978. Anderson: Oh this is an old building - Shawcroft: -- this is the (inaudible) no it's not the new one this is (inaudible). (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Shawcroft: Wrong color. Thirteen would be Wastewater Treatment Plant lighting and adding additional light. We have some dark areas in there that when the night operators are walking around they're having to use flashlights. When we have construction going on sometimes we have open trenches and things that aren't overly marked as well as they should be. Bird: That's dangerous. De Weerd: I think it is 1 C. Shawcroft: They're pretty careful. 1 C she says. Bird: Either that or in your bid make them guys put temporary lighting out there. Anderson: (inaudible) fall face first in that stubble one time (inaudible). Shawcroft: Fourteen would be the small pickup fleet addition. We're usually running one pickup short with the amount of work that we have to do in a day. A lot of times I end up driving my own personal vehicle because mine's out. Fifteen would be the drill mill and the additional small equipment for the Wastewater Plant. The digester by-pass line talking to Gary I think we're going to do that this budget year. We'll go out and get it done. Bird: I think you need to. Shawcroft: Yes it's high enough priority that we're not going to wait. I believe that's all. ( Meridian City Council Special BOi..l;/et Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 94 of 136 Bird: You and Stacy will report or get back to us on the new revised costs on all of these. On the operators and stuff like that? Shawcroft: Yes, I'll have a meeting with Stacy and Pauline and we will get you that number. I will also get you that number on the diesel tank. Bird: Yes. Shawcroft: There are two that I got to do for you. Bird: And you still want to keep the lawnmower and the landscaping within yourself? Shawcroft: I would prefer it if possible but I think we will live with whatever Council's decision is. Anderson: How much land do you have that you're taking care of there? How much acreage is that? Shawcroft: We've got about three out front and then we've got an additional acre and a half or so inside the plant itself. The reason we prefer to keep it is when we are under construction we are coordinating with the contractor. When I tell - we know when we can be out there safely in doing this kind of thing. When we had a contractor on site doing the contracting the lawn, they showed up on their schedule not ours. It wasn't always satisfactory as I said. Anderson: I guess you know I was just looking at that number. A 10,000 dollar mower I don't know to me a riding lawnmower I could buy a really nice one for 5,000 is this some type of a commercial unit that's 10,000 dollars because it seems like a lot of money for a mower. Shawcroft: This is a commercial yes. This is a commercial mower that has two mower decks. It's a mulcher. The first deck cuts it and then it brings it up behind the rider and it chops it real fine and deposits it right back. Anderson: Who runs this just one of your normal plan (inaudible) workers? Shawcroft: Yes our work people. Anderson: Just one day a week or something? Shawcroft: Yes right now they're taking two and a half days to mow the lawn with our - we've got a little riding John Deere mower that we've had since 93 I believe. It has kept up with it but I think with the additional acreage of lawn it may be just a hair small or maybe we need two of them buy another identical to that and then put two people on riding those mowers and get it done. I don't I. Meridian City Council Special Buaget Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 95 of 136 know if you were out at the plant and came to the luau, I think you missed that. The area that we had that on was some lawn that we added the year before. We're adding two more of that size plus - actually a little bigger than that so that when you come into that Wastewater Plant instead of driving into something that's dusty, that doesn't look very nice it's going to be park like landscaped. Perception, especially in a Wastewater Plant is everything. If they drive in and they see a mess then they're going to assume that the rest of the plant is a mess as well. Anderson: When you say they you mean the EPA Inspectors or who? Shawcroft: I'm just saying the public in general. I would hope EPA would know a little better than that. When the public comes in and you know they come into use the RV dump. They do - we have had compliments on how things look. We would just like to keep improving it. We do have hopefully a build out that we have it all landscaped and we've moved all the contractor work in the back - their staging areas so that they're not dumping concrete in the front anymore or using it to park their blades and that kind of thing. ***End Of Side Six*** Anderson: --I've been in there a lot of times on weekends. The way you have to pull into that, then the way you have to make the circle there and the angle that - it's just not - it wasn't very well designed out as far as making that conducive for several RV's coming back after a holiday weekend or something. You ought to look at maybe making that a little easier to swing through. Shawcroft: I think that can very likely be done. I know that when we replaced the original drive in road the original lane that will be widened. That's one of the reasons when we put in a new (inaudible) we're going to put in row of trees to the south and let them get started so that we will have room to move it out. You're right we have had stacking problems but I think that's just traffic routing. We can route them down the south road if it's paved and then right back in and around. They can be stacked up (inaudible) and it wouldn't hurt anything. Bird: That's a good idea. Corrie: You can have (inaudible) do them all at once. Shawcroft: Yes do them all at once. Bird: For Anderson just run him over to the main digester. Anderson: No, they do that with most of those because you could make it a double dump station real easy just by how you design that. It doesn't really take a whole lot more in plumbing to make it available. ( Meridian City Council Special Bt""!:Iet Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 96 of 136 Shawcroft: Yes that was originally designed when we didn't have a lot of RV traffic coming in. We were getting maybe three a month. It's turning very popular so you're right we need to help facilitate their access. Well thank you very much. Anybody have any questions. Bird: Thank you John. De Weerd: Or complaints. I followed you. Smith: Thank you John, thank you Mayor and Council. The next department to report to you with the budget would be Rick Clinton, superintendent of the Water Department. He also has Leslie Howard here this afternoon for any questions on the budget for the billing system, MUBS. Rick I'll turn it over to you. De Weerd: I know this is what Rick looked forward to in taking this position. This was the selling point. Clinton: This was the selling point. Mayor Corrie and Council Members thank you for having me before you. We were all caught off guard I guess a little by the prioritization of the enhancements. Gary and I did a little corner cramming over there just a moment ago and I provided Brad with a copy of it already. Maybe I would like to just hand out a little attachment to everyone of how we decided to prioritize them. De Weerd: Well Stacy made it so easy this year we thought we had to throw something in there. Bird: Thank you. Clinton: I was kind of pondering Brad to maybe throw in the last side on the MUBS enhancement in first. Just so I can get Leslie get back to work, she's got a lot to do. Would that be acceptable to you Leslie? Enhancement Number 1 for the MUBS is just the replacement of two computers. We've had - the last turnoff day we had some pretty substantial problems with trying to keep our Excel program up and running. On the advice of Empire, we've decided we needed to get some upgrades on our computers. It's exceptionally difficult to process billing when there's customers lined out the door and the computer won't operate properly. De Weerd: Yes, especially during turnoff, which is fun anyway. Clinton: These prices are basically pursuing the state bid. Does anyone have any questions on the one and only MUBS enhancement? De Weerd: We should have something but - thank you. { Meridian City Council Special Buuget Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 97 of 136 Clinton: Thank you Leslie. I'll kind of let Brad get caught up here a little bit. I guess I'll start out with the capital enhancements. Would you prefer me to run down them by priority or would you prefer me to just do them by the enhancement number as I've listed them. Basically what I - I'm sorry Tammy. De Weerd: By priority. Clinton: priority okay. Enhancement Number 12 is Well 21 and that is in fact our highest priority. Bird: But that is in this year's budget. Clinton: Correct Keith. Basically, we have determined that we can no longer construct a well for the 350,000 dollars that was projected last year. So, if you see in the carry forwards down below Well 21 we're carrying forward a balance of 212,383 dollars. I think Brad Watson has determined that the additional amount in enhancement Number 12 is what's needed to get us to a mark where we can construct this. Brad's indicated that the majority of the increased costs are in consulting fees and I think somewhat a higher price for generators because of supply and demand right now. Bird: So what you're saying is you're carrying 212,000 over and you're requesting 247,000. Is that an additional 35,000 above the 212,000 that you're carrying over or is that a 247,000 more over the 212,000? Clinton: That's 247,000 more. Bird: So that well is- Anderson: -- the normal price of the well is 400 - Bird: -- 460,000. Anderson: That's quite a little under estimate then (inaudible) the original one? Clinton: Yes and I think that probably the majority of that is in consulting and I think you guys have some experience with how difficult it's been to get a consultant at the rate that you used last year. I guess the other thing Brad was just pointing out is the old numbers didn't include generators. Bird: Yes I know it didn't include generators but I did not realize in the years time that our consulting fees - I haven't been noticing our contracts and stuff being that much more. What are we paying now for a consulting fee on the well? I Meridian City Council Special Bl..u!JetWorkshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 98 of 136 Watson: Councilman Bird, Mayor, and Council I went through some of the last projects that we've done and accumulated all the figures. The consulting fees have gone up. I'm not sure that they've been in the past specifically broken out well by well but this time I did. Between the test well, the water right acquisition all the things that are hydro geologist does that's about 25,000. The design on the well pumping facilities pushes about 20 once we include construction services. Then we've got 175 well house construction, 35 on the test well drilling, 150 - that actually and I don't know if I let Rick in on that. The actual drilling of the production well has gone up a little bit because we're having to do things a little bit differently than we used to. It's an improved design. Bird: We're going from 350,000 to 460,000 a well. We're adding a generator, which is probably install 30,000 - how much? Watson: Once you include the additional design - the generator itself runs about 30,000 but the additional construction - I think I had about 50,000. I don't have that number in front of me with the generator itself. I think I had about 50,000. That 350,000 it was running short a little bit in previous years. I think we have been maybe transferring - Gary knows this better than I do. Bird: Well are we okay adding the 247,000? Are we okay at 460,OOO? Watson: Yes. I researched this quite a bit so I'm very comfortable with that. Smith: Mayor and Council we went through and made a pretty detailed list of what's involved in these wells and put some dollars against each item. There was more than a half a dozen items that we put the price tag on to come up with the 460,000. Included in that was about 35,000 for drilling a test well which we've been doing historically on our well projects to see what our (inaudible) looks like, what the sub surface ground looks like and so forth. We can take that out - part of that out because we're going to change the procedure and not drill a separate test well but we're going to drill a pilot hole as a test well which will just be enlarged then with a production hole. We won't have a separate site and we won't have a separate setup. It will be an additional cost to us but it won't be as much as the test well had been running. The 460,000 is a good number and we're expecting that that number will be - our actual cost will be less than the 460,000. It's a conservative number. Anderson: Are we still allowing developers to do well development fees in lieu of pressurized irrigation? Smith: Councilman Anderson we haven't received any well development fees for quite some time. We've been pretty hard lined on pressure irrigation. Anderson: Just encouraging those? Meridian City Council Special Bllu~et Workshop July 17,2001 Pg. 99 of 136 Smith: Yes sir. Clinton: Councilman Bird I think that maybe if we looked at enhancement Number 9 and Number 10 and compared them that's about 60,000 difference with the absence of a generator. Bird: You're right. I just wanted to make sure we were covered that we didn't short ourselves. Clinton: So we're on enhancement Number 2 at this point, priority Number 2 which would be enhancement Number 11. There's an additional 110,000 there. We just basically addressed that. Pretty much exactly the same thing again on priority Number 3 which is enhancement Number 10 Well 23. Any questions so far on those? Priority Number 4 would be the additional funds needed for completion of Well 24, 50,000 dollars there. That brings us up to Priority Number 5, which is consulting. There is 180,000 dollars there. I've footnoted down and footnote Number 8 we're estimating 80,000 of that to go to the water master plan, 100,000 dollars of that for water rights acquisition. Water rights acquisition is - De Weerd: -- kind of expensive. Clinton: Yes. I think it's very essential also. Smith: I don't know if you're familiar with the water rights acquisition or the snake river base and the judication processes going on now but it's termed as being the largest lawsuit in the history of the United States. They're getting real close to our area our basin that we pump water from for this judication. Ed Squires, our hydro geologist has started the process and he recently authorized the contract of 20,000 dollars for him to perform or consolidate or I should say investigate all of our water rights and status of all of our water rights, the licenses, permits and et cetera and to make sure we know where we are in life. When I talked to Ed about a budget figure for this process, he wasn't sure what kind of numbers were going to be involved. A lot of it will depend on how much legal involvement we have to have from the attorneys. These water rights attorneys are exceptionally expensive. A lot of the money or I shouldn't say a lot of it - we're going to do as much work as we can in house without getting attorney's involved. Somewhere along the line, they're going to have to be involved. It's a little bit of a guess right now so this is a guess number. It is extremely important that we - we got started on it and this is going to be a full board push on it this budget year. I can't give you real good numbers on that but - and he couldn't' give them to me. De Weerd: I think you're starting to see how important water rights in particular this year is really coming to a head. So, this is very smart. Smith: And we'll be investigating not only our sub service our ground water rights but also service water rights and the availability of those. Meridian City Council Special B(Ju~et Workshop July 17,2001 Pg. 100 of 136 Clinton: Thank you Gary. Any additional questions on that item? Priority Number 6 is enhancement Number 6 50,000 dollars for a telemetry upgrade. We're looking at trying to include that in our water master plan contract that we have. I believe - we're basically as it was explained to me as time has gone by and we've added well after well to our system we really don't have a good 0 & M manual. I guess if J could make this real brief we're just trying to make sure that some of the contractors out there that are providing us service aren't selling us (inaudible), maniforms or something similar to that. De Weerd: Are these more standards you'll be building in? Clinton: I think part of what we're trying to do is actually get an 0 & M manual put together that would tell us specifications for the milliamps of signal that are being sent from a well to the central point. Basically, just a lot of information that someone that isn't familiar with the system could come in and be able to perform maintenance on the system for us. Any other questions on that one. Priority Number 7 is the addition of two solid-state interrogator meter reading units. Those are the hand held units that our meter readers use in the field. Our entire enterprise fund is contingent upon good meter reading. Anderson: And the people around them. Clinton: Correct. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council Members) De Weerd: Kind of like our education system. Clinton: Priority Number 8 is Enhancement Number 1 it's a backflow prevention person. This is intended to be an addition - Anderson: -- sorry I was just thinking when he was talking about the lowest bids. I know that the leaders of Empire said (inaudible) the City Council. What does that tell you about your system? Bird: Some people thought when they got elected they didn't get paid that it was free. Corrie: (Inaudible). De Weerd: See my husband's really glad you're adding on a new officer. He feels (inaudible) put out that he's the only one in our whole neighborhood that's done the backflow test. I hear about it once a week that our neighbors haven't gotten caught yet. ( Meridian City Council Special Buy~et Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 101 of 136 Anderson: I'm so sorry Rick I didn't mean to interrupt you. Clinton: It's probably I believe Joel's estimating somewhere in the vicinity of three to four years before we're confident that we have surveyed the entire town. He had maybe bit off a little bit more than he could chew this year and he was having a difficult time trying to keep up with his own goals that he set for himself. He was accumulating a lot of overtime in the process and working a lot of hours. It ended up causing him maybe to kind of have a short fuse so we decided that we would just have to scale back his goals for this year. Corrie: Have you looked at the possibility of adding so much to the water bill and then it's automatic (inaudible)? Clinton: Well we had had a brief discussion in your office about doing that and if I hadn't had such a short timeline for getting these enhancements put together that is still something that I knew that you, I, Gary and Joel wanted to visit about a little bit. There's a lot involved with that but I think I would entertain some additional thought process on it as our time allows. Any other questions on that one? Priority Number 9 is enhancement Number 1 and it's the replacement of our old backhoe. I believe accounting has a better - it seems to me like it's a 1967 is that correct? De Weerd: Those things should last way longer than that. Bird: How many hours does it have on it? Clinton: I think it's an excess of 3,000 hours isn't it John? Shawcroft: The last time I looked it was yes. Bird: How many years have we had it? Shawcroft: Since it was new. Bird: Since 67? Shawcroft: Yes. Bird: How many hours do you put on it? What I'm getting at is, is it really the right thing to have our own backhoe when you can rent it as you need it. How many hours do you put on it in a years time? Shawcroft: Was that a 67? De Weerd: It's still a crank right? It's a hand crank? ( Meridian City Council Special BUu~et Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 102 of 136 Bird: 67 and 3,000 hours tells me that that hasn't been used much and then you can go rent one for 250 or 300 dollars and they'll haul it out. It gets rid of having to have a truck to pull it with, it gets rid of the machine trailer, it gets rid of the liability, the insurance on it and when you can rent - I know they're nice to have there for everybody to use and if they have a home project they can borrow it and use it. Anyway, I think that's something that we definitely need to look into not being in the big equipment business. Shawcroft: Yes I know that Bruce Stewart had this one around forever and it does get I would say probably in my estimation around less than 50 hours on it a year. I know that it's typically when they've needed it it's been one that they need it now. They need it on the spot right then. Clinton: That's my biggest concern is that I hate to have a department the size of our department without the ability to respond to a leak in the middle of the night which we've had to do in the past. That's the only thing that bothers me about not having equipment adequate is that emergency response capability. Bird: This has only got 3,000. Even though it's a 1967, it's only got a little over 3,000 hours. Anderson: Somebody in this city owns a newer backhoe than that. We own a newer backhoe somewhere don't we? Bird: Wastewater Treatment does. Anderson: What's wrong with that? Bird: How often is it used at night? Shawcroft: At night? Bird: Yes, how many hours do you put on it in a years time? Shawcroft: We probably put two to 300 maybe a little more. Bird: So we're talking about 250 hours of backhoe work between those departments and we've got two backhoes? That doesn't sound feasible. Anderson: I think that you (inaudible) share a backhoe myself. Bird: What's the difference of running to 8th Street to get it or running out to the plant to get it? We get rid of one backhoe, we get rid of one machinery trailer, and we get rid of one dump truck that we use to haul it around. Shawcroft: you would get rid of a dump truck? Meridian City Council Special Bu...~et Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 103 of 136 Bird: Or whatever. Whatever you haul it with. Shawcroft: What we haul ours on is we do have an equipment trailer that will carry that hoe and a dump truck that will pull it. Bird: What does this Water Department have? Shawcroft: The Water Department has the old backhoe that they've had since it was brand new and I don't know what year Ford dump truck. Clinton: A very, very old Ford Truck. Bird: And a machinery trailer. Shawcroft: No, we have the machinery trailer at the plant. Clinton: I don't believe we have a machinery trailer to even transport it at this point. Bird: You don't transport it you drive it to wherever you need it? In the middle of the night and everything? Clinton: I assume so. Bird: If it's in south 5th or somewhere down there? Clinton: I would certainly entertain the thought process of a new truck and a new trailer but I thought I was being a little greedy by asking for that this year. Bird: I just can't see us being very smart by having two, one more 62,000 I don't know what that ones worth out there. Shawcroft: We bought this one used for 18,000 dollars I believe three years ago. Bird: and between the two deals, I'm being told that we put on 250 hours a year. Shawcroft: Probably. Well for the one at the Wastewater Plant it's used daily. I don't know -I guess I should actually keep track of how many hours. We bought it at it had 4300 hours on it. I know they use it practically daily out around the Wastewater Plant digging and moving things. It's been a very well - we use it a lot. Bird: Well then you've got to be putting more than 200 hours on it. Meridian City Council Special Bu....8etWorkshop July 17. 2001 Pg. 104 of 136 Shawcroft: Yes (inaudible) only giving you an under number. I could certainly find out. Bird: I feel that excluding the night work - yours is not being used at night am I correct. Shawcroft: You are quite correct. Bird: If the Water Department has an emergency leak during the night they can run out there and get it? Shawcroft: Anytime. Bird: And get it faster than what they're doing driving the existing one in the night over to some place. You don't drive those backhoes very fast down the road. Shawcroft: No you do not. Anderson: Other than they probably don't keep it loaded on the trailer. Shawcroft: No we don't. Anderson: By the time you figure the loading time (inaudible). Shawcroft: Yes they have to come in and hook the equipment trailer up to the dump truck then load the hoe. Bird: How many emergency night calls have you had? Clinton: I don't think they're that frequent. The other thing Keith I'm kind of wandering is - I don't have a calculator in front of me but I'm just wandering if the hour meters are correct on our old 67. It just doesn't seem like an accurate number of 3,000 hours on a machine that was purchased in 1967. Bird: It does to me. Clinton: Does it? Bird: Yes because I happen to live by there and that machine is setting- Shawcroft: -- hey Keith, excuse me- Bird: -- 95 percent more time than - Shawcroft: -- Stacy's telling me that that old water department hose is 79. , Meridian City Council Special BUo\:iel Workshop July 17,2001 Pg. 105 of 136 Bird: How much? Shawcroft: A 1979 Vintage. The 67 was the old Wastewater Departments hoe that we dumped. Bird: So this is a 79 so we put 3,000 in 22 years. I still don't - this isn't feasible to me. Anderson: I do think that the two departments could share one and even if you're using it on a daily basis I know that you're probably just doing things that if they had an emergency you could stop and allow them to use it -- Shawcroft: We would stop no doubt. Anderson: -- to fix that. It's not cost efficient to the city or the taxpayers to maintain two fairly new hoes no more use than you're putting on them. It's a no brainer to me. Bird: I can't - I just feasibly can't. (Inaudible) that they had their own business and had to payout of their own pocket would have the setup we've got with two backhoes and 250 hours a year on it. Anderson: If our use went up and we needed backhoes a lot more than we would look at a second hoe but at this point there's not that much use going on. The only thing we do is emergency repairs we don't install water lines. Clinton: Which is one thing that I was going to entertain in the future was perhaps the possibility that we would get more active in - actually even the repairs. I believe most of them are contracted out currently. Bird: I think that's smart. I think it's cheaper for us to do that. Shawcroft: Does it make sense then to retain the Water Department hoe as it is? It's already city owned or is that one you want to sell down the road? Bird: I guess we've already paid for it and got it allan the deal but I certainly wouldn't entertain getting a new one. Nor would I entertain getting a trailer or something to pull. If they don't have a trailer, I don't know why they would need a pulling vehicle. He's telling me they don't have a truck that pulls it. Do you have an old trailer that you put it on? Clinton: Not to my knowledge. Bird: I didn't think so either. Meridian City Council Special BUuyet Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 106 of 136 Shawcroft: What we have is we've got an old ACHD dump truck that we purchased for 6,000 dollars here I believe it was in 98 and an equipment trailer that will carry our hoe. That's between the two departments so there's two dump trucks, two old hoes and an equipment trailer. Does that make sense? Clinton: On to Item Number 10. Anderson: So is the decision to keep it? If it was so bad that we need to replace it then do we need to be selling it surplus? Smith: (Inaudible). Bird: Well it's bad enough that they want to replace it with 3,000 hours on it. Shawcroft: I know they just went and put new brakes. Just before Rick took over, they put 8,000 dollars into that hoe to fix the brakes, go through all of the cylinders. Anderson: So that was last year (inaudible)? Clinton: I believe the invoice came in just about the time I took over. Bird: I was going to say I think I (inaudible) about that. I don't think it's prudent to put another penny in it. I'm not too sure I'm (inaudible) like Councilman Anderson. If we can get a fair price out of it let's get it out of hair we'll save the insurance. Shawcroft: Right and we may even be able to work something with one of the rental places in town to where we can get a night key or something to where we could have access to a hoe if they needed it. I know they can certainly come get ours any time they want. Bird: I don't know I just - yes let's get rid of it while we've got 8,000 dollars worth of new brakes and repairs on it before it breaks down again. Clinton: Item Number 10. Two new computers for the Water Department they're replacement computers. Again, there's a state bid. Item Number 11 the replacement of 20 fire hydrants. I think this is kind of a combination of the replacement and additions as determined in a co-op effort with the Fire Department. Bird: Are these the new ones that you guys explained to me about the - that they don't have to have the wrench on or something. The (inaudible) kids can't come up and open up or am I talking about something else? Clinton: I'm not familiar with those I guess Keith. Meridian City Council Special Buw1:let Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 107 of 136 Smith: (inaudible). Bird: I thought we were talking about something else. Anderson: We talked about meters you can just drive by them Bird: Yes we know the meters you can drive by (inaudible) want. Anderson: (Inaudible) electronic hydrant to turn on. Bird: I guess I must be thinking of something else. Clinton: I guess that takes us to Item Number 12. There's 200,000 dollars in future water main extensions. Item Number 13 is the addition of Well Number 25 and again I think we've kind of covered the total cost involved at this point. Anderson: Can you cover that water line extension? Where all are we looking at extending water lines. Is there any big projects or just a lot of little ones? Clinton: I'm probably going to lean on Brad a little at this point for that. Watson: Councilman Anderson, Mayor, and Council. We have waterline projects come up every year that are identified at least partially during budget time. That water master plan is due to be done later this fall which I don't hope but hopefully it will point out if there are any weaknesses and where those are. Those will identify where those projects will be. There is some carry forward money from this current budget year for water line extensions also. Does that answer that? Anderson: Is this the one that we're showing for 200,000? Then on this one is it 500,000? Watson: Right the carry forward amount will not be 500,000. We've got the Locust Grove Road project that I showed you on the slide earlier. We've got a smaller project out on Black Cat and Ustick to close a loop. We estimate there's going to be about 300,000 carry forward on October 1 st plus this 200 that's being enhanced I guess. There would be about a half million dollars worth of water line extensions. Quite frankly, it provides us a safety nut if there's an emergency project that comes up that you all deem necessary. De Weerd: Have we been doing that a lot lately? Watson: Not this current year. That was last winter I remember yes. I Meridian City Council Special Buuyet Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 108 of 136 De Weerd: Mr. Mayor, I guess I just have one question about Well 25 and 26 with these other wells currently under construction. Will you be getting to it this budget year or is that a realistic timeframe? Smith: I doubt very seriously that we'll get to them in this budget year 02. I think that we get 23 and 24 online we'll probably be accomplishing what we need to in the wells. De Weerd: Do you need more 25 and 26 at the design stages and then to start for the next budget year? Smith: Well 25 is in the Autumn Faire area and that's out in the northwest part of town. I guess the reason that I put these or had these included is that it seems like we're always playing catch up with our wells. I guess my comment to Rick and the rest of the staff was it would be nice to get a hole or two in the ground and at least ready for a well house ahead of the development. We know that for example the Autumn Faire in the Well 25 area - Well 26 is not even designated (inaudible) location is concerned yet. Well 25 and then Autumn Faire we know that development is there. We know there's some development poised north of that so I want to get that done if at all possible. Bird: You could actually (inaudible) costs can't you in this coming fiscal year like design and all this on 25 and even possibly 26. Smith: If we had - if we're able to drill the well for example and get the engineering done on it and maybe even get started on the engineering for the pump house which isn't that big of a number. Then we can get ready for the construction of the pump house. De Weerd: So, what would be a more realistic number? Smith: We're probably looking at 350,000 without the - well that get us to well drilling - drilling of the well. That would actually include the construction of the pump house. Drilling of the well is about 175,000 isn't it Brad? Yes about 175,000. The engineering, the GeoTech Engineering another 25, 20,000 that would be 200. We could get the well drilled and capped for probably 200,000. Then we would have to put the pump house on it, pumps, and generator. Bird: You feel you can get that much done Gary next year and 25 seeing how we do know the location and everything? Smith: Yes, I would like to. Bird: That would keep us a step ahead of- Smith: -- right in that area that would give us an extra water supply out there. ( Meridian City Council Special Bubget Workshop July 17,2001 Pg. 109 of 136 Bird: Yes. De Weerd: So put that at 350,OOO? Smith: I think 200,000 would probably work for Well 25. Bird: Do you believe you can get anything accomplished on 26 because you don't know the exact location on that do you Gary? Smith: No, I don't. Bird: Do you feel it's a dead item? Smith: Excuse me. Brad was mentioning that 26 was scheduled for the Ten Mile Road, 1-84 area if anything happens out there. We don't have a- Bird: -- you have no side or anything though what could we do in next fiscal year regarding 26? Could we - we couldn't even have our - it's all the engineering done because we don't know the location that we're going to. Smith: We don't have anything right now, no. We don't have anything. Well other than we have a Concept Plan that the developer gave to us and said in this general area we could have a well site. That's all we have. Bird: We're just asking - Gary I'm just asking is there anything - if there is nothing we can do next why waste our budget with that kind of - with 460,000? Smith: Well we obviously - well yes I understand what you're saying. We try to be as realistic as we can. I guess we just don't want to get caught in a position where - Bird: -- I understand that. Smith: -- we can't perform if a developer comes in and he wants to highball into something. I know it's going to take several years to get that development going but the way he talked to us was he's pushing forward with it. Corrie: The last I got from ITD and David was about a year and a half to two years at the best. Bird: For that interchange? Anderson: You can always open the budget (inaudible). Smith: Right okay. I guess in that case - Meridian City Council Special Buayet Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 110 of 136 Bird: Realistically you don't want to put 460,000 in there because you're not going to be doing any - do you want 100,000 in for Well 26 to find a location and do that kind of stuff. Do you want 50,OOO? What do you need in the next fiscal year on Well 26 in reality? Anderson: That you would actually expend not- Bird: -- I think (inaudible) we're going to be carrying over. Anderson: timeframe is we would never get it. Smith: I think at this point we would probably just draw a line through it right now. Like Councilman Anderson said if we do come into a situation where it becomes an issue, we'll come back and talk to you. Clinton: I guess that leads us to our least important Item Number 15, which now moved to Number 14. It's just some landscaping for Well 10 in the amount of 10,000 dollars. De Weerd: Where is Well 10? Clinton: My cheat sheets over there. Smith: It's at Settler's Village at the corner of Jericho and Willowbrook. Chainlink fence and gravel. De Weerd: That should be your number one. Smith: We've got some concerns from residents for quite some time about the esthetics of that well site. Bird: I understand it. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Clinton: We've got to provide water first and then deal with esthetics I guess. Smith: (Inaudible). Clinton: Unless there are other questions I believe that concludes the water Department's enhancement requests. Bird: Thank you. De Weerd: Thank you Rick. Meridian City Council Special Buayet Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 111 of 136 Bird: Very good job Rick. Smith: Thank you Mayor and Council I think that wraps us up. Are there any questions that you have in any of the Public Work's Department? De Weerd: No, I appreciate your presentation. Bird: Very nice we enjoy it. This has went very, very nice and thanks to you guys, Stacy and Janice and Reta. Smith: We do appreciate very much having Stacy here and the formatting. I think it has helped a lot. It simplified a lot of things so thank you Stacy. Bird: So do we. Now we get a break. Corrie: Why don't we take a 15-minute break and then what's left Planning and Zoning? Bird: That's it then we'll be out of here. Recess at 3:19 P.M. Return from recess at 3:40 P.M. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Kilchenmann: Mayor and Council. Corrie: Okay so we can get out of here before we get to come back again Stacy with - this is on the Planning and Zoning and I'll have you do a (inaudible) and then we'll do the service Planning and Zoning. Kilchenmann: Mayor and Council Shari can be - for Planning and Zoning can be found under special services because she's special. Bird: Where? Kilchenmann: Special Services. De Weerd: Did she pay you to say that. Bird: When did we change the name Stacy? Kilchenmann: Okay that's what I'm going to tell you. Why is (inaudible) it's actually the building that funds so it's kind of - we put Code Enforcement, ( Meridian City Council Special Buoget Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 112 of 136 Planning and Zoning and the Building Department in there. We separated Code Enforcement out into it's own little division because Shari didn't want them in there and it really upset her every time she looked at them. So, we have the three of them - because the Code Enforcement really are, report to the Police and the Building Department reports to Gary and then the Planning and Zoning is separate. I tried to show them as three unique entities but for budgeting purposes, we need to roll them into one because they're one fund. Here's Shari. Bird: Here's Shari. Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council I appreciate the time that Stacy and Reta have spent with me and Janice on this budget this year. After all my wining, what came up is what you have before you in their department budget detail without the capital outlay. There are some areas that just I want to bring out to you that I really don't have any control over the amount that's spent on them. One of them would be under 51400, which is a copier expense. My budget line item is charged from a couple of different sources and just wanted to let you know that I don't know if those figures are accurate or not. It shows it as being zero in the past but that's because it wasn't a separate expense. I am charged from Will's expenses and also from Gary's on occasion. The office expense has gone down. It was under operating expenses before which is 15,000 it's going down to 5,000 - ***End Of Side Seven*** Stiles: -- because these figures are based the projection is based on I believe a six month period. A lot of our bills have not yet come in or we're continuing to incur costs particularly related to the Comprehensive Plan. I'm not sure that that 5,000 dollars will cover it under the 51300. Although we do have - we don't have anything else under there. De Weerd: Which one was that? Stiles: 51300. It was budgeted as 15,000 this year, the projection would be 4843 and as long as we can offset those with some - with the income that we get because right now when we're doing the Comprehensive Plan Drafts we're giving those out for free because we do want the input and they are a draft document. If you want me to start charging for them, I can but it will be very expensive for anybody to try and pick one up. Not knowing how long this is going to drag out it gets to be about - we spend between 800 and 2,000 dollars every time we have new copies made. That's just a caveat that till the end of the year we won't really know what our annual cost is. De Weerd: So, would you feel comfortable - how much more would you add to it with that in mind? ( Meridian City Council Special BUdgetWorkshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 113 of 136 Stiles: I would probably add another five. Bird: How much? Stiles: Five. Bird: Take them from three to eight? Stiles: Well its on five now, the office expense is- De Weerd: -- we're on - Bird: -- which one are you talking office expense? (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Stiles: We do have in separate printing, binding and engraving. I know one thing Stacy's working on now is everything was kind of lumped into the same category. I know she's done a lot of work trying to separate those actual costs and it's going to be a lot of trial and error I think until we - De Weerd: -- so would you rather add the 5,000 to the printing, binding and engraving rather than officing stuff? Stiles: I think so or at least 2500 to that printing, binding and engraving. De Weerd: So make it 10,000? Stiles: The thing is we can't control how much we have to spend on that. If the demand is there for more copies, we have to spend it. De Weerd: Well and you need to encourage feedback on it. Stiles: So you want us to start charging for it? De Weerd: No, not until it's final. Stiles: Adopted. We will I mean yes we will definitely charge for the final product. Yes, we have to send out a lot of those copies. De Weerd: Yes so keep that in mind. Stiles: We have no janitorial. We have 500 for fuels and gas. I just had a question for Stacy and Reta maybe. Since we do have some new line items and new categories do you, have definitions of what should be included in those? Meridian City Council Special Budget Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 114 of 136 Bird: Shari on your fuels and gas how many - do you have any city vehicles at all? Stiles: We have one well we actually have two at this point. We were talking about getting rid of one. I'm debating whether to keep that or not because sometimes somebody's out on an inspection and somebody else needs to go out on an inspection and it's either paying them the mileage for their own individual car or keeping that. If we have a lot of maintenance, though it's not going to be worth it to keep two cars. Plus you have the insurance, plus it's not a real safe place where we are at right now as far as leaving cars overnight. There's already been a couple of vandalism reports and a couple of broken windshields. They weren't on city vehicles but - 500 is probably more than adequate for gas because I think year to date we only have 95 we don't spend a lot on gas. Bird: How do you reimburse private cars being used or do you? Stiles: If they would declare mileage - I'm not sure which account it comes out of. It's 31 cents it probably comes under operating expense or is it under- Bird: -- under travel meetings? Is that what it's under? Corrie: That's what mine is. Stiles: We don't really have a lot of that. I can take my own vehicle and I don't get reimbursement for it but that's my choice. Bird: I was going to say when you're not being reimbursed and stuff and maybe you do, when you're representing the city in your own vehicle I don't know how much liability you cover on your insurance. I don't know if our insurance adds you to your vehicle to their insurance for liability. Stiles: I don't think so. Bird: If you are in a wreck on city time somebody can come back on the city. If you're in your own vehicle or at least they can in the private world. So, with my vehicle with my company covers my vehicle above what I've got liability to what we have to have to do contract work. Stiles: I guess I'm a little afraid that it's going to affect my personal insurance if I start saying I'm using it for business. Bird: It will and they should know it. Your insurance Shari, if they find out you're on a city job and using your vehicle and you get in a wreck they're going to turn you down. It specifically states in your insurance policy that this is not being used for business I'll bet you. ( Meridian City Council Special BudgetWorkshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 115 of 136 Corrie: They probably won't turn you down but they'll charge you. Bird: They'll get even with you. Stiles: Maybe I better start using the city car. Bird: I think that seriously with all employees that are representing the city and I think this is something Stacy needs to look into with our legal. If they are using their own vehicle we need to find - make sure that they're getting reimbursed and that they have the proper liability insurance that we require. Berg: (Inaudible) state statute. Stiles: What is it? Bird: A million dollars is what it is on construction. Stiles: I'm pretty sure I don't have a million dollars (inaudible). Berg: (Inaudible). Stiles: Well we'll have to keep another vehicle if I'm not going to drive my car. Bird: I think this is something that we need to - Stacy needs to take up. I say this every year I've been on the Council. We haven't had it happen but it certainly could happen. You're running to Boise to a Planning and Zoning representing the City of Meridian, you're in a wreck, somebody is killed or done like that I guarantee they're going to find out that you were on city time - the first thing they're going to think it's a city car so the lawyers are going to come after you. Stiles: That's a good point. I thought that a lot of people did that though in the city used their personal vehicles. Bird: Shari, I think you're 100 percent right but I think we've got to come up with - we have no policy now. That's the Council's fault but we have got to come up with a policy regarding personal cars on company time. Stacy you can probably answer doesn't the state have something about personal cars? Kilchenmann: Mayor and Council the state basically leaves it to the discretion of each Department Head whether you take a state car or your own car. The general rule of thumb is that if there's a state vehicle available you take that but you can take your own car and then you reimburse mileage. Bird: Then Stacy, you might be able to answer the question for me. If you are reimbursed mileage then are you assuming the liability? ( Meridian City Council Special SuayetWorkshop July 17, 2001 Pg.116of136 Kilchenmann: That I don't know. Bird: Ron do you know. Anderson: We do the same thing in Nampa. If we have a department vehicle available, we offer that first and then if we don't have a department vehicle available then we pay you the state rate which I think is now 32 - Kilchenmann: 34 or something. Anderson: I think it went up it's like 34 cents a mile. That includes your insurance, your fuel, and everything else on that vehicle. If somebody chooses to take their own vehicle when we have a department one available because the city also has a policy that you can't smoke in any of the vehicles so if you want to take your own vehicle and one's available then you have to pay your own expenses. Kilchenmann: It's exactly the same with - Anderson: -- because the city offering you the vehicle is a cheaper method of doing it for the city. If you choose because of personal preferences that you want to smoke in your vehicle or if you want to go out that evening and have a drink then you need to take your own vehicle and the cities not going to reimburse you. Debbie's is the same way. She gets paid a mileage reimbursement, she doesn't get any - that includes your insurance coverage, and she uses her vehicle on a daily basis for her company. Bird: But does she have to have the million-dollar liability? Anderson: No. Bird: And according to Nampa you don't have the liability on it either? Anderson: Not on your personal vehicle. Kilchenmann: The state is exactly the same as Nampa. If you choose to take your own car and it's more expensive to the state then you're not reimbursed. Or if you choose for example the people chose to drive to a meeting in another state because they want a vacation or whatever and flying was cheaper they would not be reimbursed or they would be reimbursed up to the flying and the cost of flying. Anderson: The difference. Kilchenmann: Shari you could fly. ( Meridian City Council Special Buaget Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 117 of 136 Anderson: Fly to Boise. Bird: Start turning in your mileage. Anderson: But if the city vehicles available to her then she has to take that. Stiles: Maybe we should leave or keep the two vehicles then. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) De Weerd: You may have to also look at your fuels. If 500- Stiles: -- I don't think we're going to use over 500 dollars worth of fuel. If we do stick with the two vehicles, though vehicle repair and maintenance may be something else. I know in that - what is a Caprice we have. What is the old one? We put a new battery, a new radiator and we had to replace the rear window that somebody vandalized and that was 500 dollars wasn't it just for fixing the window. That's what ICRMP requires. If we keep two vehicles that would have to go through at least 1,000 each. Computers and software we ought to be set. I know that the Empire Consulting work is being put under that item is that right Stacy? We did get a detail of what we spent so far this year I think it's around 5,000 dollars. We're going to keep close tract of the time they actually spend in our office and we got charged 39 dollars for talking to me about installing Windows 2000. Bird: No different than lawyers. Stiles: That's true I'm on the clock. We are going to order a new computer for the new planner and hoping to update all of our computers to Windows 2000 and Office 2000 this year so we'll have that already covered. Professional services are something that I talked to Tammy about. Stacy wanted to know exactly what that 25,000 was for. At this time, it's hard to tell what it might be for. We would like to look at some help on some of our ordinances or perhaps reviewing some of the huge applications that are coming in. Although, the number of applications we've processed this year is only 100 they're much larger projects and taken a great deal more of staff time. De Weerd: Shari just t'b expand on that, we felt that with the Comp Plan being updated there's going to be a number of ordinances and policies or procedures that need to be updated as well. With the staff time at a premium, we felt that the professional services should be at 50,000 so that those services can be contracted out. Bird: I agree with you. Also, in this deal if you've got some humongous (inaudible) behind you could go outside like city Building Departments to it to find Meridian City Council Special Buoyet Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg.118of136 somebody that could look over the plans outside of us. Is that what you're talking about Shari? Stiles: Well probably not actually the plans. We might ask somebody to look at a large project. Bird: Well that's what I mean. Stiles: Yes. De Weerd: Like COMPASS or in an extraordinary review, COMPASS, or another agency. Stiles: COMPASS would do it for nothing. They would - De Weerd: -- at this point. Stiles: -- they do it for nothing for other communities we haven't nearly talked - they don't provide the service to us that they do to other communities on a regular basis. Anderson: I guess I have a little different thought on consulting and maybe we will use that or maybe we wont'. I guess one of the things I'm trying to get back closer to is that zero-based budgeting and the fact that each expense in a budget has to have a purpose. I know this is something that we've talked with Shari for the three years I've been on Council and this is something that she had been allowed to do prior to Keith and I coming on was put money in her budget for just in case kind of things. I feel like those things maybe ought to be under the administrative under the Council but I don't think it's appropriate that Department Heads put money in their budget for things if they don't have a specific plan or an idea. They haven't gone out and got a price on what a consultant to you is going to be for this ordinance or that ordinance. We don't know that but I don't think that we ought to just put a number in there 50,000 dollars for consulting fees. That ought to be under administration or something else and we ought to remove that line item from there if there is not specific purposed in mind at this point and no bids have been gotten. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor with the professional services which we're suggesting goes to 50,000, consulting at 25,000 that the consulting at 25,000 would be for the North Corridor Planning. The professional services to increase that Shari's got a whole list that's over a page long of ordinances that need to be updated. She has talked to a couple of people about the possibility of updating those ordinance so I think she has a good idea of what those kind of services would run. I know that she has shared the ordinances that we know to date alone without the updated Comp Plan how many there are of those. I think if we need her to bring in that list to show what needs to be worked on we didn't want to ( Meridian City Council Special BUI.t!;Jet Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg.119of136 start working on that list until after the Comp Plan was updated so that it could be prioritized at that time. Some of these, even though they could be updated today after the Comp Plan they'll be needed to updated again. It will happen during that next budget year. Anderson: I don't disagree Tammy but that money is still available to Shari it's just over in the administrative side. In the three years I've been on here, we could go back and check the history. You've always had those numbers in there and in the three years you haven't used it. Those ordinances and all those things have still been sitting there, those lists, and all those things that we just haven't spent them. It could be available still it would just be in a different area of the budget. De Weerd: Yes but the administration is out of the general fund and in my opinion these ordinances and policy procedure codes and all of that really belong in the special services where they pay for themselves and that sort of thing. I don't think it belongs in the general fund. That's where you're putting it if you take it out of this budget. Bird: I agree Tammy with you and Ron both but in first place, I want to say (inaudible) you mark that tape when I heard him say zero balance. I've been - zero budgeting. I've been after him for three years to agree with me on that. It's just like the professional services. We budgeted 60,000 - Anderson: (Inaudible). Bird: -- we budgeted 60,000 last year and so far we've used 210 dollars. This is - I have to agree with Ron but also I see where Tammy's coming from this is a self-supporting department basically. If we throw it into the administration then we are putting it back into the tax dollars as I understand. It goes into this general fund. I realize that any access she has here - I think we need to be - and Tammy I know that Shari (inaudible) from October to September 30th of next year can pretty well come up with a lot closer figure than 59,000 difference between what we've budgeted and we've spent after eight months of (inaudible) this year. Stiles: It's not accurate. Bird: What? Stiles: It's not accurate. The amount that we've spent today is over 12,000 dollars at least and we owe SEIC 10,000 dollars. Bird: Where is the thing? This is supposed to - when did - this was ran through ( Meridian City Council Special B~lll,/et Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg, 120 of 136 Anderson: -- these numbers are probably what based off six months? Stiles: Yes. De Weerd: And if they haven't used it they just doubled that's why-- Stiles: They just doubled what you had spent after six months. Bird: Even at 12,000 is stHlleaving you 48,000 over- De Weerd: -- but Keith who knew that the Camp Plan - when we went into the budget session last year we had this same thought in mind. One, a limited basis but we thought some of this would be underway. It's doesn't even have that possibility until next budget year so you won't see any of that. Bird: But Tammy what Ron is trying to say and I agree with him is like 2000 we threw 103 in the budget and we actually used 50, half of it 50 percent of actual. I think we need to just look - and Shari can project what she believes is going to happen within the year. We budgeted legal services, we budgeted 90,000 and they're projecting - we budgeted 113 last year and they projected on 117 so we're going to be over on legal services. We're over this year but next year we're going to do less I guess because we took out 23,000 out of the last year's budget for this year. De Weerd: Well Keith you can't look at the projected actual because all that happened there is they doubled what had actually been spent. That's not a good projection. Also with the attorneys with the legal services it's like Shari said if they were sitting next to here yes she would budget that 114,000 but they're not. This is a more realistic - she worked that out with Stacy and the contract with the attorneys. The 90,000 is a more realistic price. Bird: What is the 58,000 does that come off of eight months or is it off of six months the actual. Stiles: Six months. Bird: Six months and we've got more projects coming? I bet you this 117,000 projected actual is going to be a heck of a lot closer than you're telling me. Stiles: No, actually we allocated the percentage to my department. My department was being charged 14,400 dollars a month. I said for that kind of wage I could have an attorney sitting in my office waiting for me to ask them a question. Bird: Don't bet on it. Meridian City Council Special BuoyetWorkshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 121 of 136 Stiles: I didn't say which attorney. De Weerd: Well they should. Bird: You could probably have Bill Nichols. De Weerd: No, well anyway. They based that 90,000 on the formula. Bird: They've changed everything - their formula has changed since their 117,000 projected actual. Stiles: Yes. Kilchenmann: Mayor and Council the legal is actual based on the contracted rate and reallocation. That professional services and the consulting I guess I come from Ron's theory that I think that you need to have a definite plane and a definite not go on the what if theory of budgeting. I think if something came up that we can't foresee that you definitely need to hire a consultant for that perhaps we could handle it as a budget amendment, present it to you and say this has come up or you have requested that we do this particular project. Then we can approve it. Because she is funded by a unique source, we probably do need to keep it in this fund in Shari's budget. Bird: Yes but how do you do that Stacy? Kilchenmann: How do you- Bird: -- by inflating your budget items like Ron was just - like we were talking about. Anderson: How would we show that- Bird: -- how would we show that to use it. Kilchenmann: If you came in as an amendment? Bird: No, how will we show it in the original budget? Anderson: If we wanted to keep this same amount of funds that she's requested available but not necessary for what if. Is there some way that we could ear mark it so that she would have to come to the Council for approval to expend those funds. Kilchenmann: Well you just would not put it in here budget. Anderson: But where would we put it at in the budget? Meridian City Council Special BLillyet Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 122 of 136 Kilchenmann: No place. Bird: What do you do then? Anderson: So you would have to reopen the budget? Kilchenmann: She has a slight fund balance because she's in a unique fund so everything you don't budget for Code Enforcement, Shari, or Building Department just goes into a fund balance. So, you would just essentially go in and say now we've decided to spend that amount that's in fund balance. Bird: So say in August or September of every year if we do it this way Stacy then we would have to come back and take out of the fund balance if necessary and re-budget that to these projects. Kilchenmann: Yes. Bird: And we only do it once a year right? Kilchenmann: Yes. Bird: What if she has not brought in the income or the Building Department that covers these then do we have to back - by ordinance we have to go back into the general fund and take it am I not right? Kilchenmann: Yes. Bird: Now wait a minute what if they have not got enough income? Our ordinance states that if they do not have enough income then we have to come out of the general fund am I not right? Anderson: Yes. Bird: I could be wrong. Anderson: No, you're right. Bird: What I'm saying is if she hasn't got - Anderson: -- her revenues are down. Bird: -- revenues are under but she has through the Council has allowed her to be 50,000 over in consulting then when she comes back for that budget amendment we have to take that out of general fund to fund that. / Meridian City Council Special Buoyet WorkShOp July 17, 2001 Pg. 123 of 136 Anderson: Right. Bird: According to our ordinance if she doesn't have the revenue. Cunningham: But also that Building Ordinance states that we have to keep a four month reserve for their (inaudible) - Bird: That's right. Cunningham: So we actually always have a reserve out there (inaudible). Bird: Then where is that reserve coming from? De Weerd: The year before. Bird: No, just a second. Is it coming from taxpayers or is it becoming from what she's left over? Cunningham: (Inaudible) what is left over from the Building Department. Bird: What if they don't have anything left over? I know so far every year but so far, every year we've had good years. What if we, what if January next year it does a 1980 or 1966 fall to nothing? You do two or three building permits a month. What? Anderson: Then you'd know that at budget time that your revenues were going to be short and (inaudible). Bird: Now wait a minute this is part way through your existing budget year in January. We can ride four months because we've got the four months dedicated in there. Then you- Corrie: -- slam the brakes on. Bird: -- then you slam the brakes on I agree but you've already got some contracts and stuff out there that you're liable for. Kilchenmann: That would be what you would use the four-month reserve for. Anderson: We would know that - De Weerd: -- we would see it coming. Anderson: -- all of a sudden the trend is all of a sudden the building permits drop that dramatic then we would start tightening our belt in place. I Meridian City Council Special B~b!Jet Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 124 of 136 Bird: I'll tell you what in 1966 within a period of two months over 60 percent of the building contractors went under because the shut down. In September, building was going great and November was bad. Anderson: Well if you're really worried about it we ought to increase the reserves to six months. Bird: No I'm not worried I'm just saying what if. That's why I don't like unrealistic budgets. We have got - that's why I have been for zero balance and I think I heard Stacy without saying the exact words kind of agree with that. I heard you on tape and I'm going to play it every time you tell me (inaudible). (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Stiles: Just to kind of address what Ron said about having scope of work and everything? Planning is really difficult to try to get a scope of work for something. Basically, you have the consultant well write your scope of work and then give you a prize. You have to determine what if that scope of work justifies the amount that they're proposing. It's not like a building where you have an architect and you can say 30 percent of the cost of this building is going to be architectural services same with a construction project. You can pretty much get an engineers estimate, know what your estimate is, and know a percentage to give to an engineer. Planning is just - you're not able to do it like that. Anderson: I understand it's tough to get a concrete number. I appreciate the dilemma you're in I just think that we ought to try to identify funds and not just have funds in the budget that really don't have a purpose. That these are just in case something comes up that we're going to need these. Maybe the best bet is like she says that when those things come up, Council approves them and then we're going to have to go back in and make an adjustment to your budget. De Weerd: But we already know it's not a just in case because the Comp Plan is going through the process and we absolutely know that there's going to be a lot of work in updating after its passed. Bird: But Tammy how do we know if it's going to pass? We budgeted for it in 1999's budget, we're almost through 2001 's budget, and we haven't got it passed. Anderson: You could go back and check this line item (inaudible). (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Anderson: -- three years I've been on the Council and I'll be we haven't come close any of the years so we don't know it for a fact. Meridian City Council Special BUdget Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 125 of 136 De Weerd: But we do know it's going to Public Hearings now. Bird: I just assume like Ron says we can come back and re-amend it like Stacy just explained to us if we need it. Let's get a realistic figure in there. Stiles: Do you want to allocate anything towards that North Corridor Study? Does the city want to be involved in any way I'm a little concerned that it's all being driven by developers. De Weerd: Well you and I have talked. I strongly agree that we need to put some money on the table and make sure that the priorities of Meridian and what we envision in this process is kept on track and not at our level at the end of the process where we have decision opportunities. It should happen throughout the whole process. Shari and I talked we have 25,000 this year that we can dedicate towards it and we would like to add 25,000 to the consulting for the second portion of it. Anderson: What are you using to get those numbers? Have you got an estimate from somebody that says it's going to cost 50,000? That's kind of my point - De Weerd: -- yes. Anderson: -- I don't mind dedicating money towards that specific cause but I would like to have some type of an estimate from the consultant who's going to do this about what the scope of work is going to be. How much he's looking at charging so that we're not just throwing a 50,000 dollar number out there and have him come back and say it's 100,000 or have him come back and say no, it's only 10,000. Bird: Or come and say well they've allotted 50,000 so I'm going to spend 50,000 whether it costs me 10 or not. Stiles: Well professional services if you go over 25,000 you have to go out for a request for proposals. Anderson: Unless you've used that person before and have a working relationship then you don't have to. Stiles: But we don't really. We've been working with SEIC but it's not likely that we would select them to work on that. De Weerd: That would be their kind of scope. Anderson: So if you want to put something for consulting for that North Meridian Project Area would you go out, get a bid or something from some consultants, and try to define what the scope is? Meridian City Council Special Buayet Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 126 of 136 Stiles: At this point I don't even know what the developer's scope is. Corrie: It's Wardle we don't even know what they're bidding (inaudible). Stiles: I don't know. I've heard anywhere from 50 to 180,000. I'm not talking particularly about contributing toward Mike Wardle I'm talking about another consultant to oversee what he's doing. I don't know if Tammy had a different idea. Did you want to contribute to Mike Wardle? De Weerd: No. Stiles: I'm not talking about that Sherry McKiven. Anderson: This whole thing - I didn't' attend that one meeting but it sounds like the whole thing is a skew because you guys came away from that process thinking the developers were going to jump in and help you to plan an overlay district. Stiles: No, I absolutely did not. Anderson: Now what we're saying is we've got to hire a consultant to check on their consultant to make sure that he's not doing something to us. That just - where's the trust and relationship that I thought you guys walked away from that meeting with? Corrie: I don't have any feel of anything from the developers yet. Stiles: No, we don't have any idea where their scope of work is. Corrie: (Inaudible) Turnbull David and I haven't talked to Wardle. I don't know what they're even thinking about yet. Stiles: I know. Corrie: And if they have done anything so we may be a little premature here but I still think the city has a say in this whole thing whether we pay for it or not. I would certainly like to have, after they get what they're doing have David Turnbull come in and talk to this Council when he's trying to plan with Wardle. Bird: I think that they left with that meeting saying that. There's nothing going to be passed without this body right here having a say. (Inaudible) take upon themselves to hire the person and I realize they didn't get SMART or somebody like that to help them. De Weerd: Get SMART. I Meridian City Council Special BuagetWorkshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 127 of 136 Bird: SMART Growth or whatever they are. We're going to have a final say Ron. I just think that, I'm like the Mayor we're real premature in worrying about that until we see the plans. We're going to have the final say on it, it was basically decided that. De Weerd: Unless when it's too late. When we talked to these developers, they were concerned about the timeframe and so were we. We would like to see this done in a timely manner. Unless you are constantly on top of it and our staff does not have the time to be constantly on top of it I think it's worth it for Meridian. It's in our area of impact, it has a whole lot to do with the future of the growth of our city and that we have someone that is overseeing it to the point of protecting and assuring through the process. Not when it gets to our level and where we have a vote. It's all ready so far that the developers are mad at us because we would turn it down. I think you have to have that constant flow of communication. Bird: Tammy I think if we're going to do that then we should have jumped right in and said hey we'll hire the guy and we'll give it two months a do. We sat right there and agreed with them. You're going to see it before it ever thinks of coming to a vote. First place we - these people are the ones that are putting the money up to do it. Let them look at it. We don't have the time and our staff doesn't have the time. I don't think that we need to be hiring somebody. It's in our area of impact if somebody wants to hire somebody to watch them let Ada County they're the ones getting the tax dollars all from it right now. De Weerd: They have no business planning our area of impact. Bird: Well- Anderson: Well I'm like Keith if that's your point and you have some good issues then you should have said at the meeting or you better get a hold of this group right now and say (inaudible) (Inaudible discussion amongst Council members) Anderson: -- we want to hire the planner and we want you to pay for it. There's no point in duplicating what they're doing or hiring someone to watch somebody else. Just tell them you're not happy with the process and how it's working now. Get it fixed now before they get too far down the road. Corrie: I think you should bring David Turnbull in and talk to him because he's the drive (inaudible) with Wardle and find out exactly what he's trying to do and what they're going to do. We're kind of shooting at a target in the dark right now. I don't know what he's going yet. ( Meridian City Council Special Buaget Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 128 of 136 Stiles: Nobody knows what they're doing it's just a fact - they're still fact finding right now. Corrie: Let's call Wardle and Turnbull in and sit down and talk to them. Stiles: They have designated Becky Bowcutt as the contact with the city and the county so she met with me, Gary and Brad Watson this week but she knows what our issues are. She's always known what our issues are. Corrie: Is she concerned that much? Stiles: She's working for the Building Contractors Association and her client. Bird: You bet she's concerned. De Weerd: She's working for someone she's her representative certainly not the cities. Stiles: She's just a city contact and one that comes and contacts us. I don't know I guess a lot of it is a reaction in fear because I don't know what they're doing and I don't know if what they think their end product is going to be is going to allow them to develop in the county without being part of the city. Corrie: Well the building contractor (inaudible). That's a pretty good size group. De Weerd: I think also, in looking at perception that we need to have a stake in this just as much as the developers do. We need to make sure that our citizens and our community are protected in this process and they are allowed to participate in this process. We can look at it. Corrie: (inaudible) De Weerd: Yes, okay. The perception is already like that. Stiles: The county staff was as shocked as I was to learn that the developers were the ones going ahead with the plan. They couldn't believe it and I was shocked. I was in shock when I left the meeting that they were going to be in charge of the whole thing. De Weerd: But, the whole point is it's never been done in the state of Idaho and they hired someone that's local that hasn't done an overlay, that certainly has expertise in planned communities, but that's a little bit of a different thing. It's also a consultant who has a difference of philosophy than the City has in how we should grow. That would be my second concern is that he has gone on record as saying that he feels that North Slough should be built before the white. To me Meridian City Council Special Buayet Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 129 of 136 that's a definite conflict of philosophy with what the City has been talking about. That's the reason for my proposal. Anderson: My thought is you're attacking it backwards. You ought to be telling them up front not hiring a consultant to say something different than their consultant. If they pay this consultant several thousand dollars and go into this several months, of course they're going to stand behind their consultant and the money they've expended. So, I think by putting this money in there and hiring a consultant to do something different than what they're doing, all we're going to be doing is heading for a bigger battle later on somewhere down the road. We need to resolve it now. You have some very valid issues and concerns about the individual that they picked that needs to be brought to their attention now and get it stopped before it gets too far down the road into his work. Stiles: I don't want to pre-judge what he might come up with. I mean, I've known him in the past. I've worked with him in the past. I have to reserve judgement until I see what his priorities are and what his scope of work is. We haven't seen his scope of work. We don't know what his scope of work is. Bird: But, he's evidently been making public statements that he wants the north trunk done before the white. Stiles: This has been in the past. I mean, --. Bird: No, wait a minute. Is this something that has been said since he has been hired as a consultant? Stiles: No, not to me, no. (inaudible discussion amongst Council) Stiles: But he has publicly been a proponent of developing the north slough prior to the white drain. Anderson: I think we're kind of getting off track here. Bird: Yes we are. Anderson: We're discussing an issue that- Stiles: Whatever you decide is fine with me. Anderson: The budget thing is what we need to get back to. Stiles: Right. Meridian City Council Special Buaget Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 130 of 136 Anderson: I think we had come up with a workable solution that just says if you need consulting work done, you're going to come get the blessing of the Council to do that. At that point, then we'll come in and open the budget and make an adjustment, a one-time adjustmetlt to the budget. I think we're covered in that sense no matter what. So, I think we're getting off track. It's just a matter of whether we're going to leave this money in her budget or we're going to take that out of there. Corrie: Technically speaking if you put it in the budget and they approve the budget, you've got it. I think what he's saying is it needs a little better control (inaudible) that keeps passing down. Bird: She's got it in that line item. She can't be switching line items just because she's under in one line item she can't jump to another one. (inaudible discussion amongst Council) Stiles: I have never done that. Corrie: No. But that's $500.00 you can do it with a councilperson. (inaudible) (inaudible discussion amongst Council) Stiles: So, are you proposing to taking that to zero or are you leaving me anything in professional services? Anderson: Do you have some specific professional services in mind? Stiles: Do I have the scope of work for anything no. Do I have a long list of things I need help with yes. Bird: How much? De Weerd: Well, have we asked any of these others? I think everyone had an item under professional services. Have we asked for justification from each of our departments? Anderson: I don't know of any of them that had - De Weerd: Then I think we need to call them all back in. Anderson: I don't think anybody had anything under professional services. If they did they could tell you what it was for. De Weerd: (inaudible) ( Meridian City Council Special BUdget Workshop July 17,2001 Pg. 131 of 136 Corrie: Public Works? Bird: No. Neither did police. (inaudible discussion amongst Council) Kilchenmann: Mayor and Council, could I ask something here? Bird: Yes. Kilchenmann: I think what's different in Shari's is she kind of got off into going through her base items because she wants to request an additional 25,000 to her base. Shari is doing hers a little differently in that she's going through line item by item. Probably how it should have been handled is that if she wanted to put in additional it should be done through a specific enhancement request. That's why --. She doesn't have any enhancement requests. That's why it's getting off differently than the other departments. Anderson: I agree. We're talking about her base budget here, which we haven't done with anybody else because she doesn't have any enhancements. Bird: Her five minutes has wound up to be an hour. (inaudible discussion amongst Council) Anderson: I think this 25,000 ought to be called an enhancement and then discussing it as an enhancement. Bird: That's right. Anderson: Not going through the line items. We don't want to do that. Stiles: Then I have nothing to talk about and I'm done. De Weerd: (inaudible). Kilchenmann: Mayor and Council, I think I'd feel comfortable leaving the $25,000 in her base for her - *** End of Side Eight *** Kilchenmann: -- and moving on. Anderson: What was the other line item though that you had asked to increase earlier? Meridian City Council Special BUdget Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 132 of 136 Kilchenmann: Oh, her car maintenance. If she goes ahead and she keeps the two cars, she would need to increase her car maintenance and her --. She wanted to increase printing. Stiles: Where does the ICRIMP. The insurance, is that for our vehicles? But you haven't figured that ICRIMP item covers two cars. Or does it have anything to do with the vehicles? Where's the insurance for the vehicles? Oh, so would that increase then? (inaudible discussion amongst staff) Stiles: Oh, okay. Corrie: So, if it's left in there, (inaudible) it's (inaudible). Kilchenmann: Realizing that if you do increase her base, then that's less money that will be transferred to the fund balance which will be less money to be used if she does have a big consulting project. De Weerd: We'll also be going through Public Hearings before too long for fee increase in her department. Bird: When is that? De Weerd: She has it all prepared. It just needs to be set for Public Hearing. Bird: Okay. We need to get it done. Stiles: Do you want to do any other fees at the same time? OR do you want to do just strictly Planning and Zoning? De Weerd: I don't want you to hold up any longer for public works. Bird: That's right. De Weerd: We just want to get something - Bird: We'll get on public works to get their fees up but you go ahead with yours. Stiles: Okay. Kilchenmann: Which means you need to have your budget as realistic as possible because you are going to have to show what you have actually spent. Bird: Yes. Meridian City Council Special BudgetWorkshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 133 of 136 Stiles: Budget for --? Bird: You've got to be able to justify - Anderson: --consulting fee - Bird: Yes, you've to justify those rate increases. De Weerd: Her staff has been keeping hours. Stiles: They did for about two months. Kilchenmann: Remember that you have a vacant position too. Bird: Shari did our building and structure lease --. Is 275 realistic? Stiles: I don't even know where that figure comes from. I believe it's been allocated based on our lease. Bird: Is that a true figure? (inaudible discussion amongst staff) Stiles: So much square footage was attributed to me in that lease? Bird: Here's another one. Dues, subscriptions, and membership. Stiles: Over 9,000 is going to be my share of COMPASS's. I've been paying a third; at least that's the old allocation. Their fees are going to be over 27,000 this year. So, 9,000 is that. I also have a membership to the American Planning Association. We have memberships to Idaho Planning Association. The subscriptions we have are like to a zoning bulletin magazine. The majority of that, there's probably about $700.00 that's not compass. Bird: Where's that been hidden before? Kilchenmann: Operating expense. Bird: It's all been under operating? Stiles: I'm not sure. De Weerd: How is that split out, COMPASS's fee? (inaudible discussion amongst staff) Meridian City Council Special Budget Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 134 of 136 Bird: Split evenly? 69,900, miscellaneous expense. Anderson: Why are we going through this line item by line item? We already agreed we weren't going to do that. I thought. Bird: Okay. Stiles: I guess that's for the windshield I get busted that I don't have money for. Bird: That's vehicle. Stiles: Yes that's my new vehicle. I'm not asking for any new hose or anything like that. (inaudible discussion amongst Council) Stiles: Oh, is that what it is? Oh, yes I have to pay for all the Planning and Zoning Commission's dinner and turkeys and- Bird: The what? Stiles: That comes out of the P&Z liaison though doesn't it? (inaudible discussion amongst Council) Corrie: Miscellaneous, I'll give you an answer on that. That's your Christmas parties and turkeys and (inaudible). Bird: I just want to get out of here. Stiles: I'm sorry to keep you. Bird: I am too. Why did we even start on that? Stiles: I should have sat through all the rest of them so I knew what to do when I got up here. De Weerd: No because no one ever went through the other ones. Bird: All we went through was enhancements. Stiles: That's all? Oh, wow. Bird: You didn't have any enhancements so we had to have you up here. Stiles: Thank you. ( Meridian City Council Special Buaget Workshop July 17, 2001 Pg. 135 of 136 Bird: Thank you very much Shari. De Weerd: Oh, any time. Bird: Shari, how soon will you have the fees restructured, ready to get going on it? Before the fiscal year? (inaudible discussion amongst Staff) Bird: Sure that would be a good idea. You bet. (inaudible discussion amongst Council) Bird: Get their blessings (inaudible). Corrie: Okay. Bird: Anyway, I hope we can get those implemented before the fiscal year. (inaudible discussion amongst Council) Stiles: These don't have to go through P&Z at all? Bird: No. De Weerd: No. Bird: Not for a fee increase, just the Council. One hearing here. (inaudible discussion amongst Council) Bird: How long do we have to have it posted? De Weerd: Get it to that new guy- (inaudible discussion amongst Council) Bird: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: I would move that we continue this budget workshop to 9:30 A.M. July 18, 2001. Anderson: Second. Meridian City Council Special Buaget Workshop July 17,2001 Pg. 136 of 136 MOTION CARRI ED: ALL AYES Corrie: Motion made and second. All in favor say aye. Corrie: Okay. 9:30 it is. MEETING ADJOURNED AT 5:00 P.M. (TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS) APPRO :2- fit/( I tlZ- DATE APPROVED ~~;.Je . ~. ILLlAM G. BERG, JR.,~ CLERK