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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2001 10-01 Meridian City Council Joint Workshop With ACHD and Ada County Commissioners October 1 , 2001 The special joint workshop of the Meridian City Council, Ada County Commissioners, and Ada County Highway District was called to order at 8:30 A.M. on Monday October 1,2001 by Ada County Highway District Commission President Judy Peavey-Derr. Members Present: Mayor Robert Corrie, Tammy de Weerd, and Keith Bird. Members Absent: Ron Anderson, and Cherie McCandless. Staff Present: Shari Stiles, Gary Smith, and Will Berg. Others Present: Sharron Ullman, Ada County Commissioner; David Wynkoop, ACHD; David Bivens, ACHD; and Judy Peavey-Derr, ACHD. Judy Peavey-Derr: Do we need introductions? Or does everybody know everybody? All right, let's get started. Mike? Wardle: I appreciate this very much. This is one of the scheduled reports that we have built into the program to let you know basically we have accomplished our first staff level review fairly in depth discussions on what I call the building block issues of development in the north Meridian are. We met on the 19th and I have --. We're not going to go through them but, the (inaudible) points on the back wall were issues that we went through with each of the functional agencies. A summary of those discussions is included in the white pages in your handout including the last 2 pages of the white section, technical information provided by the public works staff. The last page of the white section their statistical forecast items from the school district. What we tried to do in those discussions is come to essentially some conclusions that relate to how services will be provided in that north Meridian area as we go forward. I would send out that this is, even though it doesn't necessarily say this, this is a draft piece of information. We will ask each of the agencies and participants to review and be certain that anything that's stated there is accurate and projected correctly. So that as we go forward into the next phase that we have the basics to work from. Let me just take you very briefly through the, kind of a summary elements of those sections. Each section has a faded area. For instance on the second page of the handout, discussion of sanitary sewer talks about the fact that the White Drain in the north Meridian area is under design and construction, and is funded. Then it points out that the other service areas pertaining to sewer at this point are not directed by the City Council to either fund or draw up the design or fund for construction. There are 2 steps that will be before the City at some point in the future. That will be directed from the Council on preceding (inaudible) or to enter into arrangements with the development community to actually do that and then payback agreement. There will be policy decisions to be made in the future on how to take that to the next step. For instance, we did a series of overlays and we had identified, I'm not again, going to take you through the details. The areas that were, -- . I've kind of got this pinned together for purposes. We have the White Trunk which is the Meridian City Council Joint Meeling\'1,(h ACHD and Ada County October 1, 2001 Page 2 one that's under construction, or it's under design. The North Slough, Black Cat, and McDermott. Kind of the building blocks, a look at how the facilities are currently being planned. How they will be provided in the future. We did that for each area. As you're going through the second page, we'll talk about wastewater treatment plant conclusion and the fact that there are programs in place over time to provide for additional capaCity. Eventually a parallel plant on property that the City has acquired for future needs. The same thing when we get into the water situation. It would be actually page 4. in reality the water comes forward with development. Its probably one of the, its almost a matter of force type of action when development occurs, sites are selected, the City provides the well under the current program. So, we went through that whole discussion including the schools and parks. We talked a lot about co-location. Of course the City's current park plan talks about emphasis on community park elements in north Meridian. Three such facilities are projected long term. We talked about however, some of the smaller park elements. One of the issues that we will probably get into somewhat more at length as we get into the next series would be talking about neighborhood parks and how possibly some of those facilities might be looked at more at a public stance. Right now, the plan doesn't call for neighborhood parks to be public. They are to be privately developed but the challenge is that you really cant co-locate a public school for instance with a private park and have a situation that functions where you've got the liability and ownership and management aspect of it unless there was some very unique operating agreements. I'm not certain that we need to explore that because right now the City's plan does call for emphasis on the larger facilities. (inaudible discussion amongst Council) Wardle: I realize that. We hope to have an opportunity to comment on that as it runs through. We talked with then the public safety providers. The police, fire, and EMS. Again, in terms of the fire department, there will be at least one facility located somewhere, right now they're thinking it will be in the Linder, Chinden area, somewhere in the north corridor, back north Meridian planning area. It could be in the future, depending on what happens on the elected end, in terms of service radius and so forth there may need to be another facility. The challenge that we found there frankly, is sites are really not the issue. It's getting those facilities constructed and the service provided. I learned a great deal about your funding and your budget constraints, probably the most in depth discussion that we had Mr. Mayor with your fire department, both the rural and the City fire department together. The board met. It was a very interesting discussion and creates an awareness on our part, certainly of the challenge facing you as the community grows in all areas. It's not just north Meridian. It's the entire community that occurs. We did find that in terms of facility needs, EMS has kind of an interesting difference too. They look at the older areas where their real needs are. They talked about a facility in the Cherry Lane, Meridian Road area. They have also an opportunity to co-locate with the fire department with the addition of a bay, some additional site facilities. Police through the community-basing program that they are projecting, their needs can be met again with a location in a commercial facility or in one of the other public safety buildings. So, I think, our purpose at that point was to simply talk about the building block elements and the types of things that need to be structured Meridian City Council Joint Meeting .,.Lh ACHD and Ada County October 1, 2001 Page 3 in the future discussion of how services and facilities are provided. There is a lot of information there. I'm not going to take you through anymore of it than that. But I will be contacting each of the staff members. Some of them are here today to review and to respond. To be certain that we covered that adequately. Those will all become an element of the plans when we get down to it in addition to the land use considerations. I wanted you to be aware that we have gone through that staff level review with a great deal of information and assistance from those involved. I want to go to the third item before we go back to the (inaudible) and goals. I want to talk about the next step. (inaudible). This actually identified on your agenda in terms of a workshop schedule. Based on ~our input and I brought more about it from the last meeting that we had on August 2yt . I concluded that we probably should re-order the discussion. So, actually the end dates remain the same. What we will do is we will start by talking about demographics and land use on Thursday October 11th in this room from 1 :00 to 5:00. On the following Wednesday, the 1 yth, we will continue that land use discussion. Then a 2-week break until Thursday the first of November which we will then talk about land use and transportation. I have a hunch that during that intervening period of time, we're going to have some continued chats about land use aspects for this planning effort. Bring the transportation part of it in --. Not that we're not going to be looking at transportation a bit, but then really focus on that aspect of it as it relates to some of the land use options that we have talked about in the weeks previous. That's the re-ordered schedule. But, again, I stress that we end up with the same time frame. We haven't lost any ground in terms of time. We simply have had to re-focus how we're going to do that. Peavey-Derr: Are they all going to be at the same time of day? Wardle: Yes, 1 :00 to 5:00 in this room. Information on the agenda should have identified that. Also, about the time that we conclude that effort, we have an item called prepared workshop summary and provide to stakeholders. The intent at this point we can certainly (inaudible) if you choose to do so. I think what we're proposing to do is to provide to all of the stakeholders a working summary of that whole discussion, everything that has preceded down to that point. What we've been working on, the last few pages of your handout are a mail merge, everybody that's been listed before as stakeholders is on this but its now a mail merge situation so we can easily just pull this in, affix a label and get items mailed out to everybody that's participating. Are there any questions or comments? Again, I'll stress that completion date is unchanged. It allows the land use discussion to precede transportation discussions and allows us a little bit of extra time in the middle of that for some land use follow up which I think are going to be the big topic of discussion. Peavey-Derr: Mike, you're saying November 5th is going to be the update for the stakeholders? Wardle: Yes, it's a question. I have not necessarily scheduled there would be a record (inaudible) but we certainly can. Peavey-Derr: You'll be ready by then? Meridian City Council Joint Meeting V\ "h ACHD and Ada County October 1, 2001 Page 4 Wardle: I will be ready by then but the intent was, if we don't have the meeting, that's your call. Then we will at least get it out in print so that everybody would have that report. Then there would be meetings that would come along because we're going to actually hold public information open houses based on all alternatives that come out of those workshops. Peavey-Derr: A follow up question Mike. Does the opportunity to provide the report to the stakeholders prior to the 5th and then have the stakeholders meeting on the 5th for discussion of that paper? Wardle: The challenge will be the fact that we're going to conclude our meeting on the first of the previous Thursday. So, it's doubtful that we can physically have it in their hands before - Peavey-Derr: Okay. Wardle: -- the meeting if we even have a meeting on the 5th. But we can put another meeting somewhere in here because the next scheduled meeting is, right now, doesn't occur until quite a bit later. We can possibly (inaudible) until like Monday the 1ih. Peavey-Derr: The reason I'm shrugging is that it would be good to have some discussion before you take it out for the public. Wardle: I agree. The actual public open house is going to be in December, for the first with the alternatives that come out of those discussions. If you wanted to have a meeting, probably the 1ih would give us time to (inaudible) into your hands the week before to give you an opportunity to review. Peavey-Derr: Would that (inaudible) everybody that week to look it over and then meet on the 12th? Is that okay? Wardle: The 12th is Veteran's Day probably however. (inaudible discussion amongst Council) Peavey-Derr: The 13th maybe. Is that available? Wardle: Tuesday the 13th? Peavey-Derr: Tuesday the 13th? Bowman: How many people actually work anyway on the 11th because they get the Friday after thanksgiving off. Some of the City -- Corrie: The City of Meridian will. Meridian City Council Joint Meeting \".,Lh ACHD and Ada County October 1, 2001 Page 5 (inaudible discussion amongst Council) Bowman: I'm not sure the 11th is a- Wardle: (inaudible) (inaudible discussion amongst Council) Wardle: November 1 ih? Peavey-Derr: Yes. Bird: Yes, you better go for the 12th. (inaudible discussion amongst Council) Peavey-Derr: (inaudible) to look it over and meet on the 1ih at 8:30. Wardle: the last item that I had, --. Unidentified Speaker: 8:30 A.M.? Wardle: Yes. (inaudible discussion amongst Council) Corrie: For the day after Thanksgiving. Not the 1ih. Wardle: The last item that we all want to talk about probably is our serious discussion item of the day. Actually the question of vision and goals. (inaudible discussion amongst Council) Wardle: a little bit better so you can see it. (inaudible) Corrie: I'm sorry. The 1ih is a holiday. Peavey-Derr: Right. Corrie: So, we can't have it the 1 ih, can we? Peavey-Derr: Well, you better go ahead and say that again. Meridian City Council Joint Meeting ....Lh ACHD and Ada County October 1, 2001 Page 6 Bowman: I was thinking that most of the cities and the Highway District and for COMPASS and the county, I believe have traded Veteran's Day for the day after Thanksgiving. (inaudible discussion amongst Council) Wardle: The previous week, the problem is that we're going to conclude our --. (inaudible discussion amongst Council) Peavey-Derr: Yes, that's true. (inaudible discussion amongst Council) Peavey-Derr: Is there any problem with doing something, if we get the packet in our hand on the 5th, doing something on Thursday, perhaps the 8th? Any problem there? You'll have 3 days to review the stuff. (inaudible discussion amongst Council) Wardle: We'll crank. Yes, the 8th would be- (inaudible discussion amongst Council) Peavey-Derr: Thursday the 8th (inaudible). Wardle: When we met last, I had given to you a fairly basic starting point of vision and goals. It was clearly intended to be just a starting point. Idaho Smart Growth has presented something today. Actually we have not received anything, but here we go. Tammy indicated this was adopted by the City Council in terms of vision. Let me just read what the Council has suggested that goes after what is written there. It will state, north Meridian will develop with all of the diverse elements of community in an orderly and serviceable manner in accordance with approved community plans. Smart Growth, --. I guess we need to determine today the extent that we want to go into this or whether we want to --. It's your call. (inaudible). We don't have (inaudible) to review the information from Smart Growth. Bivens: Can I see that one from the City. Wardle: Yes. Someone gave me the one today, but it adds the wording after the vision statement up there, in an orderly and serviceable manner in accordance with approved community plans. Bivens: Is that added to the first paragraph? Wardle: Correct. The visions. Meridian City Council Joint Meeting \I\i'~,1 ACHD and Ada County October 1, 2001 Page 7 (inaudible discussion amongst Council) Corrie: Did we add employment centers also, Tammy on the third bullet? De Weerd: No. Corrie: Did you take that one out. De Weerd: (inaudible) it would pretty much incorporated (inaudible) Corrie: Okay. Wardle: I'm sorry, down to the fourth one you said? De Weerd: The fourth one after (inaudible). Wardle: These seem like good qualifying additions to me. Clegg: If I could, I would just like to kind of clarify what we did. As we were reading through the visions and goals, especially in a sub area, the more specific you can make those, the more likely that you'll get what you want. Ours is an attempt to make those more specific. The objectives under each one are certainly something that would, I think be discussed at the workshops. They're just a suggestion. We will suggest that the goals themselves also be more specific. I think the ones that we proposed are. The reason for that is that a comp plan is a bigger vision and (inaudible) planned if that's what this is going to be, is a more specific one. Our attempt was to make them more specific than what a comp plan would be. Wardle: This is the statement from the City adding on in an orderly and serviceable manner. Of course (inaudible). We will add that but --. I guess the question of the framework is, -- I certainly understand the desire to be specific. Yet in a general context, a Comprehensive Plan is intended to provide a guide. I see this as more of a comprehensive type plan than --. I mean, its specific in the sense that we're focused to an area but we're still going to be dealing with broad general issues on the provision of services and facilities and the transportation elements. I'm simply a facilitator. Peavey-Derr: Is anybody seeing a huge difference here between Smart Growth and what has been outlined? Dave? Wynkoop: Just kind of skimming through it, I think this is something that we really ought to chew on a while and I guess my thought would be to perhaps look at this at the next meeting to give us time to read carefully and chew on it in the mean time. I do see some pretty major differences. Peavey-Derr: The demographic and land use workshop. Is that what you're proposing? Meridian City Council Joint Meeting IN;,,\ ACHD and Ada County October 1, 2001 Page 8 (inaudible discussion amongst Council) Wardle: Actually, in terms of the stakeholders, this group will be gathering again on November the 8th. That's when you would be together again specifically. Peavey-Derr: At which time then we can define these or accept the goals at that time? Is that what everybody's thinking? Wardle: I think what Mr. Wynkoop suggested was that everybody go through these and determine, but we will certainly add the language that the City has projected to the items thus far. Wynkoop: That would be my suggestion since the cities have actually bent the rules on these. Kind of accept these tentatively and then subject to further discussion with (inaudible) Smart Growth (inaudible) on the 8th. Peavey-Derr: Since we haven't seen this. Clegg: Yes, I understand that. I guess my concern is that if we go through all of the workshops and write a report what goals and vision is that report going to be written on? Wardle: Actually the report that's coming on the 8th is simply a summary. It is not the plan. Clegg: Okay. Wardle: The plan actually comes after that next round of workshops where you start looking at alternatives. Clegg: Okay. Wardle: I think there's time enough to incorporate that. Barrett: I just want to just thank the group for even willing to take some time to look at this because I know I feel apologetic that we kind of sprung it on you here at this meeting and haven't given you a fair chance. I appreciate your willingness. Just adding to what Elaine said, I think the biggest thing that our suggestions add is some level of measurability. As written, some of those goals like development standards and incentives that encourage high quality and high amenity neighborhoods. How do we know what high quality and high amenity neighborhoods are? How do we know if we're achieving that? So, what we tried to do is add some of that, some criteria to measure that progress towards those goals. Meridian City Council Joint Meeting WII,I ACHD and Ada County October 1, 2001 Page 9 Clegg: I guess I would encourage other people, you know, obviously we did this a little late. Should have probably --. Although I don't know how we could have gotten it to you sooner since we haven't met. Wardle: Actually, I would encourage this, anybody that has any suggestions between now and the 8th, we'll get them out so that everybody has an opportunity. (inaudible discussion amongst Council) Wardle: Anybody else that wants to provide any information. That was the intent before. (inaudible discussion amongst Council) Wardle: So that we could have incorporated --. We will do that. Anything that we get before the 8th, we'll do so. (inaudible discussion amongst Council) Wardle: We need to get it, certainly a week or 10 days before that. So, sometime by the end of October. Peavey-Derr: Yes, Tammy? De Weerd: I just had a thought about the objectives (inaudible) without a workshop. We didn't think to take any further. I thought it was earlier on in the process. (inaudible). Peavey-Derr: Okay, Mike? Anything else? Does anybody have anything else they want to bring up at this time? Yes, Sharron? Ullman: Yes, I was kind of concerned I guess, between first the visions and goals and the Smart Growth proposals that are interrelated. The concept of encouraging high quality and high amenity neighborhoods, that's great. But I'm also concerned about affordable housing. Then simultaneously on the smart growth recommendation it said, using publicly funded incentives if necessary, housing could be made available for a variety of income levels. I mean, it seems to me that if we can charge enough fees and create enough requirements for developers, then the government can subsidize so that we can make housing affordable again. You know, maybe we need a variety of different types of neighborhoods. Some with fewer amenities and fewer requirements so that people with different income levels can afford housing. Not everybody can afford to live in a high quality, high amenity neighborhood, sad but true. Peavey-Derr: I think that, in my humble opinion, that's what we're all saying is that we wanted this to be a mixed area. So it provides all sorts of housing from high end to affordable. I don't think that has ever been the case that it wouldn't be. Although, that was at least our original thought. Wasn't it? I don't see it (inaudible) than what (inaud ible). Meridian City Council Joint Meeting \"It, I ACHD and Ada County October 1,2001 Page 10 Clegg: I guess my response to that would be that I would hope that the amenities --. I think this is what the vision meant, as I understood it. That the amenities would be public amenities so that everyone gets to enjoy living in a high quality community, regardless of how much money they have, that they still get the amenities, the parks and be able to walk and having access to services and transportation. I guess that would be my hope. We don't lock people out of being able to have a high quality life because of housing affordability issues. Peavey-Derr: Okay, anything else? Wardle: Madam Chair. Just a n. At our next workshop, Clair, we identify demographics and land use. This would certainly involve the folks from COMPASS who would be able to share kind of where this community is, kind of a growth pattern. I'm hopeful that they'll send us information, you've received thus far and give us kind of some base line information. This would also include, of course, City staff and the county staff. I know that you've been talking the demographics but I'm not certain to the extent of that information. That was our intent to start on that end of it and determine really what the community is today and what we might see as a reasonable direction for north Meridian. How that density and so forth will relate to future growth patterns and start the discussion on when we talk about land use. It's going to become critical. If there's ever opportunity for mass transit, urban systems that help people get out of automobiles, they're going to have to have some density areas that create that rather than kind of the continued spread of the rooftops at the same level that we've seen. Wynkoop: Question, Mike. Lets you and I get together a little bit later on and talk about the extent of that. There will be a little bit imminent level (inaudible) so far. There'll be a little bit of estimating right down to the section level out there. But I think we can do it. Wardle: Okay. That's our intent for that first workshop discussion is to really start talking about, really growth patterns up to this point and what could be expected in the future out there. All the staff members, or COMPASS that would relate to that and the City and county would be participants and anybody else that wants to. Clegg: I suggest that the Treasure Valley Futures project might have some information that we could glean from them too. Peavey-Derr: Mike, are you (inaudible)? I mean, I'm very grateful for all the work you've done. Have you had areas that you think (inaudible). Wardle: No, I think that we've got tremendous resources available through the City, the county, and others that are (inaudible) in this. Its not that we haven't - anything that we've needed has been provided thus far. Unidentified Speaker: I think there's a workshop today that provides them a great deal of information from Meridian City staff, the school district. You know a lot of those issues Meridian City Council Joint Meeting Wltil ACHD and Ada County October 1, 2001 Page 11 have come into much better focus than they are in a Comprehensive Plan type of format. We're getting down to actual high school sizes --. (inaudible discussion amongst Council) Unidentified Speaker: (inaudible) just the kind of statistical information (inaudible) the wastewater treatment plant. That's the kind of tools, from a developer's standpoint, you never see and don't know how to react to it. I think (inaudible). Peavey-Derr: (inaudible) Okay, is there anything else anybody has to say? If not, (inaud ibis) MEETING ADJOURNED AT 9:10 A.M. (TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS) APPROVED: / () / 2~ / ..21;0/ DATE APPROVED