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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2001 11-08 February " 2002 MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING APPLICANT February 5,2002 ITEM NO. 3~A REQUEST Approve minutes from November 8,2001 Special Joint Meeting with Ada County Commissioners / ACHD Commissioners AGENCY COMMENTS CITY CLERK: CITY ENGINEER: CITY PLANNING DIRECTOR: CITY ATTORNEY CITY POLICE DEPT: CITY FIRE DEPT: CITY BUILDING DEPT: CITY WATER DEPT: CITY SEWER DEPT: MERIDIAN SCHOOL DISTRICT: MERIDIAN POST OFFICE: ADA COUNTY HIGHWAY DISTRICT: SANITARY SERVICE COMPANY CENTRAL DISTRICT HEALTH: NAMPA MERIDIAN IRRIGATION: SEITLERS IRRIGATION: IDAHO POWER: US WEST: INTERMOUNTAIN GAS: BUREAU OF RECLAMATION: OTHER: vJJ W~ Fill ~ r.hS~ ~, ./ v' Contacted: Date: Phone: Materials presented at pUblic meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian. Meridian City Council Special Joint Meetina with Noyember 8. 2001 Ada County Commissionersl ACHD Commissioners Meetina The special meeting of the North Meridian Planning Area was called to order at 8:30 A.M. on Thursday November 8,2001 by ACHD Commissioner David Bivens. Members Present: Mayor Robert Corrie, Keith Bird, Ron Anderson, and Cherie McCandless. Members Ahsent: Tammy de Weerd ACHD Commissioners Present: David Bivens, David Wynkoop, and Sherry Huber. Ada County Commissioners Present: Sharron Ullman. Bivens: -- you received or had a chance to get this report. If not, raise your hand and we'll make sure you get one. With that we'll pass around a sign up sheet and it's headed down somewhere. We'll come back to those who come in late. So, Mr. Wardle, it's your. You have the floor to explain your report on this North Meridian Project. Wardle: Thank you Mr. Chairman. I want to thank the chair today because at our meeting a month ago on the first of October, he asked if I would fill in for him on a little speaking assignment to a group to talk about transportation. The beauty was that I got a free meal while I put the bad mouth in the transportation. This essentially is just an accumulative element in the process. Those that have been involved up to this point will have had three or four of these previously. We're not adding all of the old information into this. So, hopefully you haven't discarded that. It becomes a useful tool in building the record of what we've been about. Essentially we have gotten to the point where we've had a series of workshop discussions with staff and interested parties in this process. The sessions that we're reporting on today were -- . Let me just give you kind of a break down of what the packet is. The white section is simply kind of a summary of the issues that we've covered. The green section breaks down the workshops that we've had. Each of those workshops with the agendas and the attendees are attached. Then we have what we call the raw notes. The raw notes are literally that. They are basically coming from those of us that were keeping notes and it's not a verbatim transcript in any sense. We identify the factors that are being discussed. We identify parties that essentially might start a discussion. There's a lot of group discussion that goes along. So, it's a very raw document but it also is intended to help us go back and pick out some of the salient points as we get down to the particulars of a plan. The last two pages of the green section, I include an executive summary of the Washington Group study being done or that has been done for ACHD. This essentially is to help in their realm. Take it to the last page as well. It ties to the last document, which is also from that summary of the Washington Group study. We have added to it. I've got a larger board here of that same page. We've added to it some information that I'm going to talk about in a few moments. But the composite of COMPASS projections, Washington Group's projections and then some of the actual use square footages that Meridian City Council Special Meetiny November 8. 2001 Page 2 of 23 are proposed in that study, or projected in that study. The third item that we will get to in a little bit deals with the vision goals. That document in the yellow has been updated to what was proposed by the City of Meridian last month. Those items are all posted on the boards on the side of the room here this morning. In addition we attached to that Idaho Smart Growth's document that they provided to us at the meeting on October 1 st. So, we'll get back to that discussion. I want to go into kind of a conversation about the items that are contained in the white section. I want to start by quoting, and I don't mean to put Trish on the spot but the very first statement in our first work session that we put down here is attributed to Trjsh Nielson. (inaudible discussion amongst audience) Wardle: (inaudible) numbers do not matter much. In reality I'm going to show you why those numbers that we talked about really are not the issue. It's what we do with the numbers in whatever mass we see that counts. In our discussions in talking about demographic studies, I learned a very interesting thing. That is that there's not a clear crystal ball that we can use in dealing with where this is headed. For instance we talked about COMPASS numbers, Charles Trainer spent three sessions with us and provided a lot of information and insight. I learned that COMPASS basically says there will be X number of new households of all types in the community, in the entire region for a fixed period of time and X number of those are assigned to given areas throughout the community. Whether people in the communities develop that way or not, that's what we go in five, 10-year increments. Then we look back and say we were either really close or we missed the areas considerably. COMPASS actually projects in this North Meridian Planning Area, in the 20-year time frame, just over 4200 households. I think that number probably is low given the fact that it's really probably the most easily entargeted area for growth and development in this western expansion of the metro area. Treasure Valley Futures information that was presented basically talks about a fairly low-density type of development. In fact, under that scenario which I had heard at a previous workshop, raises the concern that we're going to consume a lot more land a lot more quickly in low density format than we hoped, I think that all of us hoped that occurs. Those numbers, while interesting in terms of just where the public agencies and the metro planning organization COMPASS are headed your regional and long range planning. I don't think necessarily give us the picture. I think the best picture that we have today is the work that's been done by Washington Group for ACHD. It's not necessarily saying that their numbers are absolute or correct. The are saying essentially that they project a build out of the North Meridian Area over a 20 year time frame, by the year 2020. That mayor may not occur. If it did under that scenario there would be --. Lets go to the last page of your green insert. This is again the blowup of that particular page. Section by section we have compared the projected number of increased units that COMPASS suggests will occur in each of these sections. That's the top number. That's actually the increased number. The number just below that is called the developer number, I want to point out that this is not projected by the developers. It's simply WGI using the development applications that had already been submitted and then extrapolating from those to build out of these sections. So, the second number here, the 0 number is the total number of units projected by WGI for a build out of each Meridian City Council Special Meetiny November 8, 2001 Page 3 of 23 of these individual sections. What I did then was take that number. Since we haven't done any projections of our own. Just based on those types of units, I extracted or deducted all of the identified public facilities that are anticipated to be within those areas. For instance, community parks, middle school, elementary schools, high schools, those types of uses that are already in either the school districts planning or in the proposed parks plan. Those types of uses that we anticipate that will become public and therefor not subject to development. We deducted all of those including areas (inaudible) the sewer treatment plant land and the like. There are obviously some others that we probably didn't get. In deducting those areas from the 640 acres, came up with a projected density for each of these sections based on the WGI model. So, you can see a range --. Let me just go back and state that the overall planning for sewer for instance, the City uses a 3.5 dwelling unit per acre number to project the amount of affluent for the sake of sizing mains and the treatment plant. Each of these sections then we have identified what the densities would be for the residential components. If those numbers that WGI are using were correct. Below that then we have some other numbers. The 0 is office, the amount of office space being projected, 218,000 square feet for instance. The commercial in this section, 170,000 square feet. Schools, 50,000 square feet, which would equate to an elementary school. In those particular cases, then if you then take the same 10 square mile are that we're dealing with. Frankly we did deduct out the area east of Locust Grove, half of which in this section 29 is in Boise's area. of impact. In our first meeting that we ever had on this subject included pretty much a commitment to development and activities in that area east of Locust Grove. So we factors those down. WGI is projecting on the basis of approximately 20 acres per section for office and 20 acres for commercial, about 2.3 million square feet of office space and one and a half million square feet of commercial, which equates in this ten squa re mile a rea the 212 acres of office, 180 acres of commercial. I don't know if those numbers are real or not. What we need to do as part of our plan formulation is look at the service areas and get some input from the people that are in the business and determine how much population does it take to support these. Then you factor in the fairly low-density areas north of Chinden Boulevard. Then you start to see how much land this area would support in both commercial and office and those types of services. This is just a composite to let you see what I think to date from the information that we received is probably the more realistic thing to at least discuss and anticipate as we get down to the formulation of a plan. Back to the question of when will it occur? That's really not the most important thing. The most important thing is how do we prepare for it? So, basically the growth forecasts are not the framing elements of a plan. They are simply helping us decide do we need to encourage greater densities for specific purposes. Those purposes would be to support sufficient services that recapture more trips because the WGI study essentially captures 22 percent at build out with the land uses that they project. 22 percent of all the trips generated in that area would be captured under their study. The second element is if we want to ever provide for the opportunity of public transportation we've got to focus some density and determine what areas we need to do to make that a possibility. It may not happen. I think the tendency, the challenge is going to be to have the patience to get sufficient density into these projects and wait out some of the higher density elements in order to achieve that. That's a factor. Tendency frankly will be to move the land quickly. It will Meridian City Council Special Meetiny November 8, 2001 Page 4 of 23 move more quickly in pretty much straight single family or moderately low medium density. Higher density elements are going to be determined on the basis of services, employment and such and will be a challenge frankly. Land use patterns as we know in the proposals that have been submitted to date --. Some of these are approved and some are not approved. The densities ranged from two and a quarter units per acre, for instance in the Bridgetower project which has a very mixed density component to it as well as commercial and a school and the like. Keltic Heights actually comes in at about 4.35 units per acre, has a fair number of medium and so called high density uses (inaudible). So, in the proposals we have really quite a range of roughly a two dwelling unit per acre difference in those today. We asked the question of the representatives of the development community during those workshops that if you were working under a different scenario than what the existing comp plan is and frankly it's a tried and true process that people are responding to. They know that tried and true are single family lots. The process is setup to accommodate that. It's much more challenging when you start to get into planned developments and the other uses. So, if the conditions were different that encourage the planned development approach and the mixed uses and the higher densities, would those proposals change? Some of the comments were yes they probably would. Some are probably down far enough down the line that they may not because of commitments that have been made to the types of product that they've done in the past and the market conditions as they exist today. So, we really will be looking at service areas. We'll be looking at densities. We're going to be looking at the possibility of major employment. That was something that came up in the text changes proposed in the Meridian Comprehensive Plan about some type of an employment or tech center out there. We will look at all those. Obviously we will be looking at the public facilities which we have identified. I apologize; these are just kind of our working maps that we've been using during those discussions. I have not done anything to really clean them up yet. We've identified all of the public uses with the exception, I don't think we put the fire station site on this one at this point. But, we know there will be a fire station site here in North Meridian and I believe somewhere in this corridor. I've got them on another (inaudible). Transportation was another key consideration. Obviously ACHD has been spending a fair amount of time looking at the issue. State and federal highways, for instance as we deal with --. We've got the Chinden Boulevard corridor that's, the elements of that that are in the design process and committed for construction in the next several years, primarily from Eagle Road back east. Study in the area to the west. That's a key element in what happened in North Meridian, not simply because it's --. Not all of the traffic will go that way but clearly that is a key access point for this general area going east and west as the desire line is the travel to most employment. At the same time, the question comes; we've got our Ten Mile interchange coming down the pike. We also have consideration for the connection eventually of Highway 16, the Emmett Highway into this corridor. We've already got the Linder connection from Highway 44 down to Chinden and into the community. So, it's a question of where we need to make, we need to be wise enough to include in a plan, an eventual corridor so that we don't find ourselves backing into something in the future at much greater expense. So, we simply, at this point kind of drew the line of least resistance realizing that the WGI study actually anticipated that it would more direct. These numbers right here show the number of lanes that WGI is proposing based on Meridian City Council Special Meeliny November 8, 2001 Page 5 of 23 this scenario. That would be Ten Mile and Under Road, essentially in the heart of this area would both be the major carriers. Then you'd have Locust Grove, remains a three. Meridian increases from three to five at McMillan under WGI scenario. Black Cat would remain a three. There's a break. All of these west roads would be a five lane east of Slack Cat. So, it's major consideration in terms of the transportation System. Primarily to be sure that we don't box ourselves out of what the potential state and federal connections involve. Bivens: Maybe we should take a second and see if anyone has any questions this far, Mike. Wynkoop: Commissioner Huber and I were just commiserating about Linder going over the freeway. (inaudible discussion amongst Commissioners) Wynkoop: And whether that was then going to end up being a pretty major corridor, such that three lanes would not be adequate long term. Huber: We were questioning because it links over the freeway, it's logical that that (inaudible). Wardle: Perhaps the thing that might change that is Locust Grove probably is key. You certainly could enter the industrial and employment area (inaudible) whether it translates into a connection to the north is something that we probably chat about. I don't know that it's necessarily --. (inaudible discussion amongst Commissioners) Wardle: -- Eagle Road at this point. If we can keep that one flowing and encourage people not to use the others. My concern when we started looking at the numbers here was that I would honestly, just my own personal opinion now. I would doubt that we would ever find the financial justification for a river crossing, another river crossing within a mile of Linder Road. From purely the types of money state and federal that will be required to do that. If something happens out here to make that connection, I think it's going to happen further to the west. We had, I think Erv gave us some input on this. If you did this, eventually, long term there will be another connection down at (inaudible). Another interchange potentially. So you get the possibility of that connection lining out to provide that access down more into the industrial and commercial corridors that are projected north of the freeway into the railroad area. Considerations that are important to what we're doing simply because we just don't want to find ourselves in a box in what we do for the neighborhoods in the North Meridian area future. Any other comments? I've got just a couple --. Bivens: Okay, go ahead. Meridian City Council Special Meetiny November 8, 2001 Page 6 of 23 Wardle: Okay. I think the thing that's been interesting listening to individual and group conversations is that everybody believes that we need to think outside the box in all of this. I heartedly agree that we need to think outside the box. Yet I'm struck with the realization that the growth projected in this area, and I want to thank the County staffers for bringing in for instance they did a case study. Presented the scenario of a built out section in west Boise, which you would have to really look at and say it's typical of what we're seeing across the area. But, the realization of the growth projected by all of the public agencies and even in, I think, our own planning believes is that we're not looking at an extraordinary situation. We're not probably looking at a dramatically different set of numbers or densities or even the types of uses and services that are required in neighborhoods. I'm not sure that we're looking at an extraordinary change in numbers. But what we are looking at is an extraordinary opportunity to deal with them in a pro- active way. So, we're set to move forward from this point to create the frame work for unique, innovative and sustainable neighborhoods through incentives and an expedited process through the City of Meridian that would help encourage the things that they want in comparison to some of the things that we have simply had because that's the way it gets most easily approved. Secondly, we need to create a framework for providing the community quality elements, the schools, the parks, the public safety and facilities and so forth early in the neighborhood development. Boy, you really know how to get a guy. Berg: No, the credit goes to Shari, not me. (inaudible discussion amongst commission) Wardle: Again, getting these community quality elements in early rather than late in the process of developing our neighborhoods. Then finally, the framework needs to be provide for the construction of a transportation system improvements apace with the development, hopefully at a much lower cost through public private partnerships. That's really I think where this effort is going to go. I would certainly take any comments from those people that sat with us through the workshops to either add to or detract from anything that I've said. If anybody has any comments, I'm more than willing to put them on the table. Bivens: Any of that group that have any comments? (inaudible discussion amongst commission) Unidentified Speaker: (inaudible) I think on the first page of the white handout --. Wardle: Of the white one? Unidentified Speaker: this is stuff that the, to pipe a creek (inaudible) father than just talking about number of lanes. The presumption was that we may eventually be looking at alternatives, looking at (inaudible) high density. (inaudible) those are very different things that, you can't really accomplish both with the thinking that you're going to have Meridian City Council Special Meeting November 8. 2001 Page 7 of 23 (inaudible). (inaudible) elaborate because that is something (inaudible). (inaudible) how to balance that traffic function and (inaudible). This has been (inaudible). Wardle: I appreciate that. In fact, Diane reported that they are looking at some new types of roadways that mayor may not fit into the arterial or under the collector definition, as they are known today. So, it helps maybe achieve some of the objectives in a way that we haven't anticipated. There was discussions of frontage roads and the like. I think what (inaudible) pointing out is that if we replicate Eagle Roads throughout, then all we've done is create some serious separations. It doesn't necessarily mean that we're not going to have to carry a lot of traffic. But maybe there's a way we can accomplish this through some standards and through the way we connect to those arterials and the like that may change a little bit of what we've been doing up to this point. I don't know but there was a lot of discussion on that. But some types of standards that maintain the traffic flow and controls that still allow the services and the accesses and so forth in a way that maintains livability in these neighborhoods. Bivens: Okay, other comments? Huber: I have a question. Bivens: Okay, Sherry Huber. Huber: Are you going to from the development community, something that --. You numbers is numbers, it's everybody's best guess but the key for, I think all of the municipal entities in the district is in the timing and how it develops. Because if you'd have a subdivision in one section and the other section and here and here, the roadway system gets spread and so it seems to me that we need to at least take a stab, somebody and you kind of alluded to it earlier about the timing on that, of when funding is going to be required. I'm making an assumption it probably is going to develop. That also leads the way for, traditionally it takes, I don't know how many houses before commercial comes in. so, before the commercial comes in people are going to --. Those trips aren't going to get captured. So, you may have 12 years or some period say half the time that no trips are captured. So, that puts a strain on the roadway system. So, did somebody take a stab at the likelihood of which roads would be effected first? OR is it hodgepodge and they're all going to be? Wardle: Well, we haven't done that specifically but I think it was instructive when we plotted out where the current proposals are. Essentially they're focused on Under Road in a fairly straight north south corridor because in reality these project proposals, some of which are still in the conceptual stage, take the better part of a section. We will never have, under this free society; we will never be able to say that all right this one's done (inaud ible). Huber: Then go (inaudible). That's why I said (inaudible). Meridian City Council Special Meeting November 8. 2001 Page 8 of 23 Wardle: Clearly I think there's --. We've already seen somewhat of a focused effort to date by the applications and the interests of people. Part of that is dictated on the way to the sewer systems that are going to be put in place. The first system, or the first expansion coming up will come this direction, pick up essentially this corridor. Actually simply by a little bit of an addition to that trunkline will pick up the north here. I mean, part of this - Huber: (inaudible). Wardle: The City has already got a program in place that's guiding the initial effort for interest. Huber: I want to know why, can you address the issue of the packaged sewer treatment plants? I feel like the way that the camp plan reads now, basically people are being deprived of their private property rights because they have to wait until that sewer line comes in. at least right now how it's being interpreted by two commissioners. It seems unreasonable not to allow development to occur elsewhere in that area until those sewer lines come in. Wardle: Honestly that's not an issue that we've discussed in this group. We've been working within the context of the plans and programs that the City has been dealing with. I know that that's been discussed but frankly I don't have any knowledge of it at all personally. I don't know. We have an engineer or two here. But that's not something that we've actually gotten into. (inaudible) Bivens: Any other comments really quick? (inaudible) Unidentified Speaker: (inaudible) We did discuss, I think we need to think outside the box in terms of how we fund those. I think we recognize a need for the LID function and why that's being not (inaudible). I'm not sure what that will lead to but that was (inaudible). I think everybody has said at least one of the workshops. Wardle: And LID is certainly one issue. I think clearly there's an opportunity for, I'll use the word innovative because I don't think it's been done a great deal but where a relationship between ACHD and the developers to do some of this work for credits because they can do it cheaper than you can do it. They can give you the same product. That's going to be a major (inaudible) if we're going to find a way to keep costs for this transportation system down. Unidentified Speaker: That issue has come up in the past. It came up with Hidden Springs. This commission hasn't reviewed the information on it. But from my perspective only, my reservation with it was that the LID is tied to their ground. If there's a default, the taxpayers that are left with this --. And if there's a default that means the value has dropped. Then you're left with a vacant lot as opposed to traditionally it's been on an improved piece of property so that you had the different values. I never got Meridian City Council Special Meeting November 8, 2001 Page 9 of 23 passed that point. Maybe we didn't have enough discussion but that has come up and that, I know personally one of my big reservations about it. Bivens: David Turnball. Turnball: Wasn't an LID used to fund Park Center Boulevard? Bivens: And Emerald. Turnball: And Emerald? Bivens: there (inaudible) (inaudible discussion amongst commission) Bivens: -- it takes kind of a master plan but it may be something very well to consider (inaud ibJe). Turnball: I don't know. I don't know if I favor LIDs or not. I did suggest Trish try to ram it through the legal department and ACHD (inaudible). (inaudible discussion amongst commission) Huber: You went through it. It probably needs to be reviewed again. Turnball: It may not be the only solution. But it may be one solution and 1- (inaudible discussion amongst commission) Turnball: Right. Bivens: Yes, go ahead Ron. Anderson: Just a general comment. I guess as a City Council person, I actually favor the developers building the roads as they go whether it's through an LID or whatever through some type of credit system. The reason I do is because if the impact fees are paid to Ada County Highway District, we don't know when that road might get developed. There might be other priorities and it might be shuffled off. So, from a City Councilman's standpoint, I would just as soon have the developers that are developing these sections widen the roads and build them as they go. Wardle: Mr. Chairman, let me comment. Bivens: Go ahead. Meridian City Council Special Meeting November 8, 2001 Page 10 of 23 Wardle: We discussed that issue somewhat during the process and the developer doing it at one percent but the impact fees we were concerned about keeping them focused into the area where this particular need would occur. For instance the demands right now for improvements throughout Meridian are such that you could siphon off virtually all of the impact fees for this area to take care of past and then this one would be deficient in the future. So, whether we can keep the impact fees focused in the area where credits would be possible is going to be another legal question that's going to have to be worked out. Bivens: Before we leave it, back to one of the comments that Commissioner Huber mentioned about the Locust Grove, the number of lanes on Locust Grove. I guess, I know it's outside to the south of the area that we're discussing but J think it's quite important as we consider that from south from Ustick which is proposed to be a five lane road south of there across Fairview and over the overpass, over to Overland as five lanes because our proposed overpass will have four lanes on it. So, I think that will help us quite a bit. North of there I think we probably are in pretty good shape. I realize that's not in the focus of this but I think it has a direct impact on the circulation of traffic in that general area. But it will get the traffic across to the new high school over to that assisted living and the athletic center and all of that and would certainly, in my estimation reduce a lot of the congestion that we currently have on Eagle Road. So, we can kind of keep it. Put that in the back of your mind or on your notes. But that's for us to decide. Wynkoop: Just to follow up on the comment about, you know the developer doing it for like a whole mile. You know, how do we fund that LID? Do we do like an overlay district, extraordinary impact fee zone or something where it's dedicated it to those 12 or eight square miles, whichever way you look at it. The practical part on the impact fee alone though, at least the regular impact fee is if you've got 16,000 dwelling units in this 12 square mile area, maybe that's high. But whatever ends up there, you're going to have a tremendous impact on another one of those contiguous 12 miles. But on quite an area in the immediate vicinity. So, to say that --. I mean one option would be to create just an impact fee zone just for those 12 square miles but then you'd be basically saying well it's all got to spent right there. So, all the surrounding roads that are needed to also serve that 12 miles, then the impact fees couldn't be spent. It seems to me like some kind of a combination where maybe the regular impact fees can be spent in a little broader area. Do an overlay zone or an extraordinary impact fee zone or something so that --. Then those are spent in that immediate area. Then you have, I don't know, maybe like Park Center and Emerald where there's kind of an LI 0 and then there's a reimbursement back as the fees were collected somehow. I understand that kind of gets done sometimes on sewer projects if the developer fronts that cost for the sewer. Then as other developments come on line, then that developer that fronted the cost gets reimbursed. Wardle: That's an item that Becky Bowcutt brought up in the discussion was when we start talking about these facilities and if there is an arrangement where the development community or individuals in a focused area put in that infrastructure, is there a latecomer reimbursement program similar to what's being done in sewer and other Meridian City Council Special Meeting November 8. 2001 Page 11 of 23 subsystems. There's a lot of discussion that's going to take place on the implementation end of this plan. If we find the ways that they can be done and there might be a variety of them, it might be a combination. All right, how do we actually implement them? That's where the challenge is going to --. Bivens: Mr. Turnball. Turnball: I understand what you're saying Dave about reading the thing you know just out there. We can't just focus on this area because there are broader impacts but a couple of times just now you used the word extraordinary impact. If that's what we're talking about, this area paying more than the area south of the freeway then I am not going to go along with that at all. There's nothing extraordinary about this area here other than the effort we're putting into planning it. So, I hope that you're not suggesting that this are pay more than any other area in the Treasure Valley because actually this area is probably better suited with the network that's already in place to handle traffic. It's got a great arterial system. So, I don't see anything extraordinary about it in terms of cost. Bivens: I have just one comment. My interpretation of what Commissioner Wynkoop thought about, maybe that we need to take a look at allocation of funds rather than --. Have some that's available to accommodate the traffic generated from there that can be basically, the comment that I made about Locust Grove being five lanes. Yes, again I think that's what he was --. That's my (inaudible) what he was saying. Wynkoop: We have to have some (inaudible). I mean, if you brought us a cost for $5 million for one mile of five lane road, we've got to figure out a way to reimburse you, some kind of (inaudible). Turnball: That's the part I said, I agree with you totally there. I think we need to look at different kind of arrangements that we come to. The term keeps coming in extraordinary impacts. I don't think this area is any different on a cost per unit basis or whatever than any other area. Wynkoop: I apologize if my use of the word earlier because the extraordinary part of it that I see is not that we're going to see something that's so dramatically different that the impacts are greater but as the extraordinary opportunity to deal with it. I hope I didn't add to that. Turnball: Did I take that wrong? Wynkoop: I don't know what the calculations are going to be. One option is to have an assessment district that's just those 12 square miles and a benefit zone that's just those 12 square miles, figure out what it's going to cost within those 12 square miles. That's one way to analyze it from an impact fee point of view. So, you calculate the impact fee, you do a capital improvements plan for those 12 square miles, charge a fee based upon what will be needed at build out and you know have a situation that is truly unique to Meridian City Council Special Meeting November 8, 2001 Page 12 of 23 that 12 square miles. But my only comment is if you'd in fact end up with 16,000 residences within that 12 square miles, it's going to impact not only the 12 square miles but also the immediate surrounding area. So that just has to be taken into account (inaud ible). Turnball: That's always been the rationale for a county wide impact fee. Bivens: I think we've got Diana who --. Diana: I just wanted to mention that Micheal in his notes indicated that Washington Group was doing some preliminary analysis of the financial requirements for the road improvements that they recommend. We just got their report in the last couple of days. We haven't really looked at it, but just a draft report. But the preliminary indication is there's about $118 million in road improvements that are required in this area. Of which 75 million would be impact fee eligible. Kendall's initial calculation of the impact fees that would be generated in this area are about 30 million. That's all in today's dollars. That's very preliminary but that gives you some ballpark ideas in terms of what the infrastructure requirements facing the road standpoint (inaudible) what was generated in impact fees. Wardle: (inaudible) ran the numbers on just the residential and came up closer to $38 million on just the residential component. So we need to look at that carefully. Diana: We're still looking at it. Kemmer: Did you include (inaudible) in that (inaudible)? Wardle: No, I just did some gross numbers. Bivens: We had one more comment down here. Varialle: I wanted to comment on Commissioner Wynkoop's concerns about the surrounding area. I think you bring up a very good point. You know this isn't going to develop in a microdot. If we've got this ten miles developing over the next 20 years, at some point whether it's five years, or ten years or whatever the surrounding area is just going to be developing with it or it's going to be moving further west. The continuation of the need of services and so forth, it will be just that. It will be continuing. I don't know how we can, if this development group comes up with some solutions and is able to work with the community in solving the problem. It may become a basis for future things. But I don't know how we can necessarily start to take what we're trying to solve here and dilute it because of what may be coming down the road. What's coming down the road is going to have to be solved at that time by the (inaudible). I think that would be a concern of mine. I mean, it's very (inaudible) that the impact fees generated, the solutions are generated are being focused into this ten mile corridor. Bivens: Commissioner Huber. Meridian City Council Special Meeting November 8, 2001 Page 13 of 23 Huber: But, I think it's really important as part of this partnership that's being developed --. I think Mr. Turnball was quite clear about the extraordinary impact fees and why. So, as government entities, if we're going to move forward and we believe there should be some fees because we're concerned about financing our part. Then I think it's up to us to show the developers some greater benefit and there may not be any in order to justify any additional cost because you're going to pass it on. What I hear, you're saying is you don't want your loss to be more expensive because you're in that area, than if you're in some other area. So, that means if they are more (inaudible) part of if in fact we go that way is what is the benefit you get from that and what can you sell to the consumer or will it even sell. If you're saying it's not going to sell, then that puts all of us on (inaudible). It seems to me that's one of the fundamental issues that needs to come out of this partnership right now up front. Yes, right now. Nothing else works if in fact the developers are going fight that the whole way, then none of us are going to spin wheels on it. Varialle: There has to be without a doubt a benefit, whatever proposal comes back out to this group, from the development group, it's going to have factors in it, incentives for the developers to participate. If it's not there they're not going to participate. They're simply going to sit back and say it's not worth developing this ground with these problems and these costs. We just won't do it and it won't happen. So, you're right the incentives have to be there to entice the group to perform and achieve the goals that this group is trying to set forward. Bivens: It's obvious to me, we're not going to resolve this question. It is to me a very intricate part of the whole process. I guess I would suggest that we actually move on with the discussion here and at some time in the very near future that we sit, we ACHD, the ones that administer and our staff and you folks that are involved with the development sit down and try to hash this out. Take a look at where we are. As we move along, I'm sure we're going to have some better information. Maybe we better get back and try to finish this up so we don't drag it on all morning. Turnball: I would just note that, how you finance it is not --. I mean this isn't the first time that that's been a significant issue. Bivens: (inaud ible). Wardle: If WGI is even close the scenario that they are talking about in North Meridian is no different than what has happened literally throughout your entire jurisdiction. So, all we're saying is you can't apply something to this area as saying gosh you're going to develop the same but your impacts are greater. In addition we have the opportunity to see if we can find our way through this. That's the difference between what happened in this march to the west and this really quite open and opportunity corridor. Bivens: Yes, Charlie? Meridian City Council Special Meeting November 8, 2001 Page 14 of 23 Hummell: I'm curious as to whether or not the developers who are participating and who have a land interest in this area actually are agreed that the 20 year build out scenario is correct? Are all you folks in agreement that a 20-year build out is right? Turnball: Are you asking if this area will be substantially built out in 20 years? Hummell: Yes, Turnball: I think that's likely. I think Washington Group's projections are much more relevant than COMPASS projections here. Hummell: That's a pretty short time frame actually. Wardle: But you have to look at the rest of the community. I'm talking about the broader community. West Boise is pretty well, I mean, you've got some 40s and so forth here and there but west Boise is pretty much at Meridian's door. This is the area, as the communities have grown out that's going to be the focus literally. So, it's not far-fetched. Huber: But, to follow up with that Mike is we're getting some preliminary, we call it gossip now, but you're talking about an area equally as large to the southwest of Overland Road. It's my understanding there's somebody that's already assembling a substantial --. It's not going to be any different there. There's going to be as many anchors. It may, you know the configuration may switch and go north south instead of east west. But I don't think you're talking about any less ground. I think you have the similar scenario happening. If you think about it, with the improvement of 69, you know there's your --. That's exactly what's going to drive it I think. Bivens: I think, Commissioner Huber, and I --. (inaudible) the sewer trunklines going under the interstate from Linder, is that --? (inaudible discussion amongst Commissioners) Bivens: When that occurs, I think what Commissioner Huber is mentioning we could have a situation that's very similar over in the south corridor, south of the interstate get developed equally as soon. And we've got all kind of problems. We haven't got an agenda to run it down Overland (inaudible). (inaudible discussion amongst Commissioners) Bivens: Okay, (inaudible). Nielson: (inaudible) a comment I think at a workshop that (inaudible) are always difficult (inaudible). County wide total is the sources have been relative. The projections have been historically pretty close and (inaudible). This area is to be built out in 20 years that means that area that 30 percent of the total growth in Ada County will occur in just that area. I'm not certain it will build out in 20 years. I think it will build out in some point, 20 Meridian City Council Special Meeting November 8, 2001 Page 15 of 23 years (inaudible). (inaudible) the sewer lines in that southern part of Meridian developed. I'm just not confident that 30 percent is just going to occur in this area. If we continue to add more land, which is what you were talking about to the urban land supply, j believe that since they're not at growth (inaudible). I think 20 years really isn't all that important for planning for the future City of Meridian, 25 to 30 years (inaudible). Turnball: I don't want to represent that I think the whole ting will be built out but I think every section will have development, significant development in that time period and whether it's 80 percent of 85 percent within 20 years. None of us here knows but it's going to be a significant area. There's a reason why we're all looking there because it's a desirable area. That's where people want to be. It's got the transportation systems that are already in place some that with improvement will provide some good transportation corridors. It's really kind of an ideal area, which is why we're all around this table. Bivens: Okay, maybe we better move on with our --. Wardle: I guess the last point that I would bring up is again, this document on the yellow sheet with the underlined elements are the additions that the City of Meridian proposed last month. I attached the Idaho Smart Growth to it so you could discuss and compare. (inaudible) to talk about some questions whether you feel like we need to deal with it. Let me just, --. I'll put my two cents worth out. In formulating the first draft that was presented to you back in August, I believe, I went to similar plans and tried to see, okay how's the structure? What's the foundation? The foundation is, in most cases, a fairly simple set of goals and vision. Then the types of thing that Smart Growth has proposed frankly are very useful. But that gets more into what you would typically see in the heart of the document itself, where it starts to put the flesh on these simple statements. If the group feels that you need to add flesh at this point, I'm certainly --. I'm not driving as I'm simply trying to keep the train together and on the track. If you want to add elements to it, that would be your prerogative. I think that will come forth frankly when we start looking at the --. When I look at the examples of other similar plans, that's what really the plan itself consist of, are the very detailed types of statements and the directions that have been before the body of Smart Growth. Whether that needs to be the simple framework within which we start to put those elements together or not is your decision. I would be glad with that. Bivens: Okay. Comments? Anderson: I did have a question on that because I read the article in the Statesman here, I forget, last weekend or something, about Smart Growth and the planning for this area. They were showing this gritted road system and the neighborhood retail centers in the communities built around them and stuff. I guess I just had some questions because I hadn't really heard the answer to this. Whether the development community supports this type of development and are they willing to change, I mean, how we typically are developing today with cul-de-sacs and meandering streets and stuff? If so, then it would seem like as this develops, that there ought to be somebody doing some coordinating -- Meridian City Council Special Meeting November 8, 2001 Page 16 of 23 . Meridian has never had a design and review committee and I'm not sure we want to go there but to have somebody that makes sure that as this developer comes in with his plans that they match and tie in with this other developer's plans. So, when I read that article in the paper, it just got me thinking about a lot of things. I mean, because I think there's a lot of people sitting in this room that's been involved in the workshop. Some of them have an idea that here's what we want to do, Smart Growth and we're going to build a new community that looks like this. Then there may be other people that have been involved in this process that still have views that we're going to do it the way we currently are now. I guess I'm just wondering are we all on the same page? Or are we batting in different directions with that type of philosophy or thoughts at this point? Varialle: I'll make a comment in that regard. I don't believe that the design, community design that's depicted by Smart Growth is one that I, as a developer would step out and put my money on. I do not see a demand for that in the housing community. In fact, in many ways it's contrary to what the market place seems to be looking for. So, if the, for example of Meridian, City of Meridian, or any other entity started down that road and was dictating that type of development J would not be one of the first to follow it. I would wait and see if the community would accept it. It is quite contrary to what -. I not only develop land I build residential homes. It is not what my customers are telling they want to see. I think so often we lose sight of that as we sit around this table and start discussing how we should develop, how the community should look, what services we should put in. we forget what the consumer is really looking for. Just a short example of that is that I was chastised quite heavily by one of my communities for putting so much green in the project. They were tired of paying to mow it. It looks good, they can't use. It's just there. It's a 20-foot strip that follows the road. It's not what they're looking for. I think that all these ideas are great. They sound good but where has it worked? Where has the residential community, the homebuyer out there walked to it? I know of no where. Bivens: Mr. Turnball, your comment? Turnball: I'll take a slightly different view and tell you that I think there is a certain market for it. We did the planning for Harris Ranch. We did a market study to try to identify what the market demand would be for the so-called neo-traditional type development. I think we found that it would be about 20 percent of the market that would consider living in that type of environment. You know, I've wanted to ask a question of people in here. How many of you live on a cui de sac or would like to live on a cui de sac because I think the cui de sac gets bashed quite a bit in kind of an environment but I live on a cui de sac. I remember Tracy Andrus, when, I don't even know what the event was but she said you try to take my cui de sac away and you're going to be fighting a war with me. I believe that there are different types of development patterns that can all be blended together. They can all interconnect but the street system, if that's the vision for what this area is proposed to be. It seems like Frank says you know we would be taking our money off the table too. We will probably provide some of that but I'm not going to sit here and pretend that that's what the market is going to buy. It's probably somewhere around 15 to 20 percent of the market. I mean, Harris Ranch, our neo-traditional Meridian City Council Special Meeting November 8.2001 Page 17 of 23 development is selling about one unit to every four of the more conventional type of development. It's nice to think that we can force people into living on alley loaded streets but you know a lot of people like their backyard and don't want an alley in it. We're going to be market driven in this whole process. Bivens: Mayor Corrie, then Charles. Corrie: Looking around this room, I think there's only about two, maybe three of us that we grew up in a Smart Growth community, alleys, garages were back there and the small homes and what have you. Going through life it changes, exactly what you're saying. I don't think that Smart Growth is going to be 100 percent down the road like you're saying. They don't want it. *** End of Side One *** Corrie: -- to what we're doing here or anywhere else. So, I think what Frank and David are saying is very true. As I say, two or three, I was looking right at Dave. J think Dave is in the same age group as I am, maybe I'm just a little younger. (inaudible discussion amongst Commissioners) Bivens: Charles. Hummell: I'm here today representing Elaine Clegg who is co-director of Idaho Smart Growth. I'm the president of the board. Elaine and J had a discussion the other day when I was getting ready to represent here today about this very question. We're both in agreement that the model, this great street model, the one that was published in the Statesman is simply an example of a certain type of market opportunity, which we all recognize. I hope that you don't think that Idaho Smart Growth is pushing a doctrine that says that everyone of these developments has to be a neo-traditional neighborhood plan because in fact, first of all that's not realistic. Secondly, it's --. Well, primarily it's not realistic in terms of the market. The ability of the development community to achieve what we all want to do and that is good housing at economical prices. The other kinds of things that Smart Growth Principles are talking about are not tied just to that model of a traditional (inaudible). There's all kinds of other kinds of things. Connectivity is frankly the underlying key to all of it. I have to say that those of us who have been involved in pushing this bucket of rocks have been dismayed at the resistance of neighborhoods to accept connectivity and adjacent streets. I think developers themselves share the same dismay because now, planning commissions in all of the Valley and in the county are pushing connectivity as a requirement of the layout. Everybody says it's fine, but the neighbors say not in my backyard. That is in fact an obstacle that's going to have to be overcome. But, if we're going to relieve the extraordinary impacts which the way of which we've been developing in the past is putting on the public infrastructure, we're going to have to adopt some of these Smart Growth ideas using the term generically. Meridian City Council Special Meeting November 8,2001 Page 18 of 23 (inaudible discussion amongst commissioners) Hummell: That's what I --. I just wanted to mention that. But I hope that you're not going to accuse Idaho Smart Growth of pushing a (inaudible) development pattern idea which we all recognize as some but certainly not a universal development potential. Bivens: As you all know, I'm certainly not a developer but my classification of a developer is that you are really retailers, the same as the clothing store downtown is. People will buy what they want. If you don't build and develop like they want, you aren't going to sell it, somebody else is going to sell it. So, David Turnball. Turnball: My comment was going to be much like Charles that I've had discussions with Elaine and she certainly hasn't pushed the gridded system as the only way to develop. I think there are ways that we can do the things that we're doing now, that we can do them better. By creating connectivity and pathways and things like that. Even the cui de sac can be connected to the pedestrian network. I think the cui de sac in certain developments has got a bad name justifiably. But there are other areas where the cui de sac has been used in a much more neighborly manner. So, just following up with what Charles said, Smart Growth is not pushing the gridded street as the only type of development. I think that we can do better as developers than the things that we have done in the past. Bivens: Not that your ideas are all bad but they need to be taken along with the others. Yes, Sharron? McKibbon: I'm Sharron McKibbon. I'm with the University of Idaho, Idaho Urban Research and Design (inaudible) being here but I've been catching up through a lot of the people that have been here. I think it's a very desirable thing to, A want to protect your family, to have your own property have value and also have access to the things that you do want to have. But, if you look at any of those individually, you'll find a single answer. Any person in their own lifestyle will find a single answer at a certain time in their life. But, if you then, (inaudible) the planning process to look at all of those potential markets and potential impacts and put them together, then there will be compromises. The gridded street diagram actually was one that I had drawn up after a diagram that Peter (inaudible) gave me. The intention was that there could be, it didn't have to be a rectangular grid. That it would be street calming but it did indicate the connectivity which is really important not only for pedestrians and the (inaudible) model can have terrific connectivity for pedestrians. Because the car traffic in a cui de sac normally does tend to put a lot of cars on a couple of streets, which are then not really usable for the other modes of transportation. So, it is a completely integrated thing and I don't think that Smart Growth or I or anybody would be saying oh, we have to have all (inaudible). With a chance to look at the whole area comprehensively I have great hopes that we can attract housing for all kinds of markets and ages and sizes and also give opportunities for access (inaudible) the transportation loads (inaudible). Meridian City Council Special Meeting November 8, 2001 Page 19 of 23 Wardle: I just wanted to tell you that in our resource base that we have the information that Smart Growth provided. This must be your sketch Sharron. Is that sketch? Okay. But there are other elements that they've included. I think the key is we've got to find some ways because we're going to have a lot more limited access into the arterial system for instance. So, we're going to have to find a bit more connectivity internally to, for instance we've got an elementary school proposed for every section. One area that I don't know that I totally agree with the City, that they're focused on the community parks, which there are only three out in that area. But when you get some of those elements together internally, we just need to make sure that we can get people to them without, a lot of things have happened where the planning have never really preceded the development. We're forced outside into the arterial system in order to get to some of the things that might even be within our own section. That's I think the opportunity. There will be some developers that will do some of these very unique things and others that will do some of the so called tried and true. But, we need to have a framework that encourages and facilitates the more unique things instead of the --. Sometimes the hassles and battles it takes to get them through the process both with the Planning Commission and the City Council and the ACHD Commission occasionally. We need to find a way to get that done if we're going to break the mold. Unidentified Speaker: He said, a an ACHD Commission, not necessarily yours. (inaudible discussion amongst commissioners) Bivens: As a member of the Treasure Valley Futures from the time it was, we applied for the grants and cleared through the whole process. That to me was an interesting exercise and study and I think it gave me a little perspective that I didn't have without it. I think Commissioner Huber is always talking about innovative new different ideas. Probably the greatest challenge for me as a Commissioner has been how to do connectivity between the various subdivisions and projects that we have without creating a obvious cut through types of thing. That's a difficult one. Just like Mr. Wardle mentioned as far as I'm concerned we need to seriously consider connecting these so that they don't impact an arterial or a connector on the outside to get you know a half- mile from where you are. I would like to get done and get this thing wrapped up by about 10:00. I think we've got one more item here. Charles has got one more comment he wants to make. Hummell: You're talking about (inaudible) item two on the agenda. (inaudible) proposal per say. Let me --. I think we can wind this up and let me tell you that Idaho Smart Growth is not, has done it's job in providing the attachment here which (inaudible). We talked to the, I think the six points that Mike has drafted, the goals and plan are as he indicated distinct. They can be, you know, you can extrapolate from them to all of the same things that Idaho Smart Growth has said. No, I don't think that we would need to spend an awful lot of time debating whether or not those six goals and plans that this group wants to recommend to Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission, the Council should be amended as such. What I would hope would be that the document that goes forward from this group to City of Meridian would have attached to it just the same way Meridian City Council Special Meeting November 8, 2001 Page 20 of 23 it is here for their further consideration in detail the points that Idaho Smart Growth has raised. In other words, not that I'm saying it, I think Mike that we shouldn't spend an awful lot of time debating you know whether or not these same six goals that you've laid out should be substantially amended or added onto. All I'm saying is that I think the document that this group forwards on would be great (inaudible) from Smart Growth's standpoint to have the attachment added. Then let the Planning and Zoning Commission and the City fathers and mothers of Meridian decide as to whether or not they want to extrapolate further and add on. (inaudible) clearly the six goals are good enough here (inaudible) all these essential points mentioned. All I'm suggesting is that (inaudible) reach that understanding we could wrap up box two under item two. Bivens: I think we've probably pretty well discussed that --. (inaudible discussion amongst commissioners) Bivens: I would like to go onto where do we go from here? What's next? I think we need to decide what's our next step, what the time is for our next meeting. Wardle: Just to tell you what we have in the work plan, it's actually a fairly, --. I have just been kind of using this as a (inaudible). We've completed the report for the stakeholders. We actually had shown it here on Monday the 1ih, what we did on the 8th. From this point now, we're going to go into identifying specific plan alternatives. We're going to have some workshops to evaluate alternatives. We're going to do some refinement. Then we're going to take all of this information, not as a single but just as some of the alternatives in a refined mode to a public open house discussion. That's what the work plan is. That gets us into January. We would have a preferred plan that would be then starting through the implementation process of discussing how we're going to do it. So, fairly short order over the next six weeks or so to get some (inaudible) steps together for a presentation to the public by the end of (inaudible). Actually the public discussions will occur before Christmas according to this schedule. Bivens: Okay. David Turnball. Turnball: What would the elements of that plan be? Wardle: Frankly it would have, it would have the land use considerations. It would have transportation facilities, more clearly identified and incorporating, hopefully the state issues. And would be talking then about some concepts of getting the public facilities aside from transportation the other, the parks, schools, public safety needs addressed. So, I mean, we would have some alternatives on how to do that and probably some discussions on the arrangements, the agreements and so forth. Wynkoop: Mike, what's our target date for completion of this mission? Wardle: Well, the actual implementation process, we actually are looking by the end of January to have the plan pretty well formulated. Then we go into the implementation, Meridian City Council Special Meeting November 8, 2001 Page 21 of 23 the actual refining and developing the implementation strategies and that would be the comp plan amendments, the zoning Ordinance amendment, the subdivision development standards, infrastructure phasing, the agreements that are going to be required for right-of-way, schools and parks, and utilities and so forth. Then frankly you go into the Public Hearing process with that. So, the end of January, we're going to have something that hopefully would be able to go forward through all of the agencies to actually get toward the adoption. Bivens: Do we have a summary of that time schedule? Is it in something --? Wardle: It was a previous handout. Yes. Bivens: Okay. I probably lost it. Wardle: What we did this time by the way, we did hand deliver some of these but we sent out to everybody on the stakeholder list which is over 50 some people. We sent those all out and we can just do a little summary of this and that schedule and get that out again. (inaudible) about how to merge all these things through the computer and it's fairly simply output systems. Bivens: Then we pretty well, maybe we should determine when this group would get back together and for what reasons. Since we all know the holidays are going to get pretty congested here as far as time is concerned. Is this a good time for everyone? This time in the morning? Do you want it earlier, like 7:00 or 8:00, or something like that? (inaudible discussion amongst commissioners) Wardle: Mr. Chairman, the actual next time that I show on this schedule that you folks would come together would be January 7th. We would have gone through the process and a lot of refinement and hopefully pretty well down the pipe at that point. So, January ih is what the schedule says will be the next full group meeting. Bivens: Okay. Is that --? (inaudible) sound all right to everyone? Wardle: That's a Monday, that's what we have been doing but they can be any other day that you want. We've been doing it typically at 8:30 at COMPASS. Bivens: The time seems to be --. I see a lot of frowns when I mentioned an earlier time. (inaudible discussion amongst commissioners) Bivens: Yes Sharron? McKibbon: Mike can I ask the workshop that you'll be having between now and then (inaudible). Meridian City Council Special Meeting November 8, 2001 Page 22 of 23 Wardle: Yes, we'll put out the notice. We haven't set the specific dates yet for that. (inaudible discussion amongst commissioners) Huber: Mike, the workshop on November 28th, (inaudible) Wardle: We'll put the notice out. Anybody that wants to come to any of those has always been --. So yes. Bivens: Okay. Anything further to come up, any comment, recommendation, or questions? Anderson: I wanted to comment that today has been --. To me there's been more open discussion at this meeting than there has been at any of the previous ones. That's been particularly helpful for me to see the different views. I know we're trying to stay away from some of the more controversial issues in this but I think at some point it's fruitful to have some of these more and frank discussions and find out just what everybody's points of view are. You know there are some of the points that it looks like we've come to pretty close agreement on already. I think now you know part of the process ought to be to identify some of these more key issues and some of the ones that are the sticking points. Then try to hammer out an agreement on that one and not just try to cross over them because at the end of this process, the bottom line is we all in agreement here. So, even though it may be a little bit controversial we're going to have to get into some of those frank discussions. Wardle: That's why --. You suggested a parallel effort for discussion specifically of some of the impact fee issues. I think that could happen and probably should. There may be some other opportunities as well. Huber: As part of the discussion could the developers help us and come up with at least a list of what they view some options are with financing because I see that as a really big issue? (inaudible discussion amongst commissioners) Turnball: I've talked with Susan about some of those possibilities. (inaudible discussion amongst Commissioners) Turnball: Lets just get together with the Commission and the developers and --. Bivens: I think that's probably one of the major, major factors of this whole process is the financing. The financing basically of the infrastructure and of course, roads are not the only ones but there's lots of others. I would certainly be willing to participate and be Meridian City Council Special Meeting November 8, 2001 Page 23 of 23 willing to invite the developers down to our (inaudible) for a discussion with our staff and try to maybe get your sense of views on it. (inaudible discussion amongst commissioners) Wardle: I think this new study that you just reviewed last night is pretty important for everybody to have an opportunity to digest quickly. Turnball: I looked at it. I decided to stop developing real estate and just sell right-of-way. (inaudible discussion amongst commissioner) Huber: That's my timing issue. When is it going to come up (inaudible)? (inaudible discussion amongst commissioners) Bivens: We can work this out amongst the groups that are going to be effected but make note of everybody else that wants to participate. I think we're (inaudible) I think what we are doing here today is going to be a definite benefit to the public, the taxpayers and those who are interested in developing some of this area. I'm sure as I'm sitting here that this is not the only one that we're going to see. Some time somewhere down the road we may have a different set of players in the game but I think the game is going to be very similar to this one that we're working on right today. I think this is good and I thank you all for taking time to come. I think the partnership is one that's going to be of great benefit in the years to come. With that, unless there's some more comments, we stand adjourned until the ih of January, 8:30. MEETING ADJOURNED AT 10:07 A.M. (TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS) APPROVED: 2- / f)/~l-- DATE APPROVED if~~~~~LERK PIe-au- ;Joll r~. ?kU/c /t/o./;q MAYOR Robert D. Corrie HUB OF TREASURE VALLEY A Good Place to Li ve CITY OF MERIDIAN 33 EAST IDAHO MERIDIAN, IDAHO 83642 (208) 888-4433 . Fax (208) 887-4813 City Clerk Office Fax (208) 888-42] 8 CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS Ron Anderson Keith Bird Tammy de Weerd Cherie McCandless NOTICE OF SPECIAL JOINT WORKSHOP J MEETING MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL & ADA COUNTY COMMISSIONERS & ADA COUNTY HIGHWAY DISTRICT COMMISSIONERS 7A-~ LEGAL DEPARTMENT (208) 288-2499 . Fax 288-250] PUBLIC WORKS BUILDING DEPARTMENT (208) 887.2211 . Fax 887-1297 PLANNING AND ZONING DEPARTMENT (208) 884-5533 . Fax 888.6854 the Ada County Commissioners and the Ada County Highway District NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN that the City Council of the City of Meridian, Commissioners will hold a Special Joint Workshop I Meeting at the COMPASS (Community Planning Association of Southwest Idaho) Conference Room, 800 S. Industry Way, Suite 100, Meridian, Idaho on Thursday, November 8th, 2001 at 8:30 A.M. The Meridian City Council, Ada County Commissioners and Ada County Highway District Commissioners along with representatives from Idaho Transportation Department, Joint School District #2, planning agencies and growth in the northwest Area of Meridian City Impact. developers will be discussing transportation and planning issues regarding the The public is welcome to attend. DATED this 5th day of November, 2001. ,.",~'Of'~;~;~j>. ~ /' c} ",cP""""'~ -./- ' ~ p bo. ~ f. SEAL) WilLIAM G. BERG, JR. - CITY CLERK %\;~,~!~>