HomeMy WebLinkAbout2022-06-14 Regular Minutes Meridian City Council June 14, 2022.
A Meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 6:01 p.m., Tuesday, June
14, 2022, by Mayor Robert Simison.
Members Present: Mayor Robert Simison, Joe Borton, Luke Cavener, Treg Bernt,
Jessica Perreault, Brad Hoaglun and Liz Strader.
Also present: Chris Johnson, Bill Nary, Caleb Hood, Joe Dodson, Sonya Allen, Laurelei
McVey, Tracy Basterrechea, Joe Bongiorno, and Dean Willis.
ROLL-CALL ATTENDANCE
Liz Strader _X_ Joe Borton
_X_ Brad Hoaglun _X_Treg Bernt
X Jessica Perreault _X Luke Cavener
_X_ Mayor Robert E. Simison
Simison: Council, we will call the meeting to order. For the record it is June 14th, 2022.
It is 6:01 p.m. We will begin this regular City Council meeting with roll call attendance.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
Simison: Next item is the Pledge of Allegiance. If you would all, please, rise and join us
in the pledge.
(Pledge of Allegiance recited.)
COMMUNITY INVOCATION
Simison: We had no one sign up for the Community Invocation.
ADOPTION OF AGENDA
Simison: So, we will move into adoption of the agenda.
Hoaglun: Well, Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Just to note for the record for those that might be here or online, that Item No.
1, the public hearing H-2022-0015, Bountiful Commons East, they are requesting that it
continue to July 19th and we will take that up when we get to that point, but just for a point
of information. But I move we adopt -- adopt the agenda as published.
Borton: Second.
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Simison: I have a motion and a second to adopt the agenda as published. Is there any
discussion? If not, all in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay? The ayes have it
and the agenda is adopted.
MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES.
PUBLIC FORUM — Future Meeting Topics
Simison: Mr. Clerk, do we have anyone signed up under public forum?
Johnson: Mr. Mayor, we did not.
ACTION ITEMS
1. Public Hearing for Bountiful Commons East (H-2022-0015) by KM
Engineering, LLP, Located at 5960 and 5984 N. Linder Rd.
A. Request: Modification to the Existing Development Agreement
(Linder Mixed Use - Inst. #2018-052340) to update the conceptual
development plan and building elevations.
B. Request: Combined Preliminary and Final Plat consisting of three (3)
building lots on 2.20 acres of land in the C-C zoning district.
Simison: Okay. Then with that we will move into Action Items. First item up is public
hearing for Bountiful Commons East, H-2022-0015. I will open this public hearing with
those comments -- would staff like to make any comments after what Councilman
Hoaglun just referenced?
Allen: No comments really. The applicant just wasn't able to be here tonight, so that's
the reason for the continuance request. Thank you.
Simison: Okay. Was there anybody that was here that was hoping to speak on this item
this evening? Okay. Seeing none, do I have a motion to continue?
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: I move that we continue the public hearing for H-2022-0015 to July 19th, 2022.
Borton: Second.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to continue this item. Is there any discussion? If
not, all in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay? The ayes have it and the public
hearing is continued.
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MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES.
2. Public Hearing on Proposed Water and Sewer Fees
Simison: Next item up is a public hearing on proposed water and sewer fees. We will
open this public hearing with staff comments and turn this over to Director McVey.
McVey: All right. Thank you, Mayor and Council. So, as the Mayor mentioned this is our
proposed two percent increase to the water and sewer base user rates that we presented
to you on May 24th. So, as we mentioned, the average impact to our customers would
be about $1 .22 per month. We have noticed this in the newspaper for the past two weeks
and included it on all city utility bills for the last cycle. To my knowledge we have received
very little feedback. We did get a couple of phone calls -- two phone calls to MUBS. We
didn't get any in Public Works. So, just wanted to let you guys know that. I know we
talked about this the last time, but for the benefit of anybody watching tonight, the main
driver for the need for this increase is a significant increase in costs in utility operations
and capital projects. As a reminder, we have not increased our utility rates since 2014,
so this is the first increase in that time and in order to improve our fund solvency we are
seeking a two percent increase today and, then, we are also anticipating adjusting our
assessment fees this fall, but the hearing today is just for the two percent utility fees. One
of the things to note is that we may potentially need future increases, but we look at our
revenue and our expenses and model our -- our -- run our model every year to see if
those come in with our projections or not. So, that's the reason why we are not asking
for a bigger increase today as we would like to see if these -- some of these large capital
projects that are coming in in the next couple of years, how those come in and, then,
make adjustments each year as we go forward. As a reminder, Meridian has some of the
lowest utility rates in the valley, even with the increases and that is due to current and
past council and mayors' and staff's diligent and conservative planning and budgeting and
so with that I will stand for any questions.
Simison: Thank you, Laurelei. Council, any questions? Okay. Thank you very much.
This is a public hearing. Mr. Clerk, do we have anyone signed up to provide testimony
on this item?
Johnson: Mr. Mayor, nobody signed up in advance.
Simison: Okay. If there is anybody present who would like to provide testimony on this
item, if you would like to come forward at this time or if you are online you can use the
raise your hand feature and we can bring you in for comments as well. Seeing no one
coming forward or anyone's hand raised online, Council, would you like any further
comments from the director or do I have a motion to close the public hearing?
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton.
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Borton: Just to comment. I -- I appreciate the fact that there is not public here in the
sense that -- I think it's a byproduct of work really well done, Laurelei, not only in Public
Works, but also Keith Watts and -- and how we bid projects and are conservative and
forward thinking with some of these really expensive capital projects. Efforts are made
to save costs long term. It's always a long term vision. The reason you can do relatively
modest increases is because of that dedication and discipline. So, much appreciation
from all of us to you and your leadership to make this happen, keeping us looking long
term. The public benefits and part of our obligation is to take care of those that are, you
know, generations down the road and I think that foresight that you lead with provides
great benefit to them. So, thank you for that.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: I'm ready to make a motion if we are ready.
Simison: To close the public hearing?
Perreault: Yes. I move that we close the public hearing.
Borton: Second.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. Is there any
discussion? If not, all in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay? The ayes have it
and the public hearing is closed.
MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES.
3. Resolution No. 22-2329: A Resolution Adopting New Fees of the
Meridian Public Works Department; Authorizing the Meridian Public
Works Department to Collect Such Fees; and Providing an Effective
Date (June 15, 2022)
Simison: Next item up is Resolution No. 22-2329.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: I move that we approve Resolution No. 22-2329 adopting new fees of the
Meridian Public Works Department and authorizing Meridian Public Works Department to
collect such fees and provide -- providing an effective date of June 15th, 2022.
Borton: Second.
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Simison: I have a motion and a second to approve Resolution No. 22-2329. Is there a
discussion? Seeing none, Clerk will call the roll.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Cavener, yea; Bernt, yea; Perreault, yea; Hoaglun, yea; Strader,
yea.
Simison: All ayes. Motion carries and our thanks to you and your team..
MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES.
4. Public Hearing for Ten Mile and McMillan (H-2022-0011) by Anne
Kunkel, Varin Thomas, LLC., Located at the Northeast Corner of N. Ten
Mile Rd. and W. McMillan Rd., Encompassing Nine (9) Parcels
A. Request: A Development Agreement Modification of the Ten Mile and
McMillan Development (Inst. #2020-040967) for the purpose of
amending a DA provision regarding cross access between the
commercial properties and the senior living property.
Simison: Next item up is Item 4, which is a public hearing for Ten Mile and McMillan, H-
2022-0011. We will open this public hearing with staff comments from Mr. Dodson.
Dodson: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Good evening, everybody. The first one here should be
pretty -- pretty easy for everybody, so -- the application before you tonight is for a DA
modification. It's for nine parcels located around the northeast corner of McMillan and
Ten Mile. It's currently zoned C-G and has been for some time. There was a DA
modification of 2019 to remove it from a larger DA and, then, a CUP in 2020 regarding an
age restricted multi-family unit in the very back lot, the largest lot here. The DA
modification before you tonight is specifically for one provision. Because the approved
DA includes a provision that requires the senior living facility and the commercial parcels
to provide cross-access and cross-parking, the inclusion of this provision is standard for
commercial properties, but should have been excluded -- or they should have excluded
the senior living property because the city does not want cut-through traffic or shared
parking between the commercial sites and the senior living property. Further, the existing
approvals required a commercial drive aisle along the rear of each commercial building
lot, which provides for the required cross-access. This drive aisle has been constructed
already and is in place. So, this is the proposed language. Top is what the applicant
submitted in their narrative is the proposed. The bottom is what I am proposing as the
recommended DA language, just because it specifically lists the application that started
and created the CUP for the multi-family. So, after that I will stand for any questions.
Simison: Thank you, Joe. Council, any questions for staff? Is the applicant with us this
evening? State your name and address for the record.
Kunkel: Anne Kunkel. Verin Thomas. 242 North 8th Street, Suite 220, Boise. 83702.
The applicant doesn't really have much to add. We have confirmed with staff that we are
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fine with the languages as they have proposed. That's -- given the limited nature of the
DA modification we don't have anything more to say. We agree. We enjoyed working
with staff and to reach this resolution and it accomplishes the goals that we were looking
for as part of the modification.
Simison: Thank you. Council, any questions for the applicant? Okay. Appreciate it. Mr.
Clerk, do we have anyone signed up on this item?
Johnson: Mr. Mayor, we did not.
Simison: Okay. If there is anybody that would like to provide testimony on this item, if
you would like to come forward at this time or use the raise your hand feature on Zoom.
Seeing no one coming forward or raising their hand, would the applicant like to make any
final comments? They are waived.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: I move we close the public hearing for H-2022-0011 .
Borton: Second.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing on H-2022-0011. Is
there any discussion? If not, all in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay? The ayes
have it and the public hearing is closed.
MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: After considering all staff and applicant testimony, I move to approve file number
H-2022-0011 as presented in the staff report for the hearing date of June 14th, 2022, and
that the staff's recommended language has been agreed to by all parties.
Cavener: Second.
Simison: I have a motion and a second. Is there any discussion? If not, Clerk will call
the roll.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Cavener, yea; Bernt, yea; Perreault, yea; Hoaglun, yea; Strader,
yea.
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Simison: All ayes. Motion carried and the item is agreed to. Thank you, Joe. Have a
good night.
MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES.
5. Public Hearing for Hatch Industrial (H-2022-0029) by Hatch Design
Architecture, Located at 160 N. Linder Rd.
A. Request: Vacation of the 30-foot wide utility easement along the east
side of Lots 8 and 9 of Heppers Acre Subdivision.
Simison: Next item up is a public hearing for Hatch Industrial, H-2022-0029. We will
open this public hearing with staff comments.
Allen: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council. The next application before you
is a request for a vacation. This site is located at 160 North Linder Road on the east side
of Linder just north of West Franklin Road on 1.52 acres of land in the I-L zoning district.
An amendment to the future land use map was recently approved for mixed use
community to industrial for a larger 42 acre property that included this property and this
property was annexed with I-L zoning. The current Comprehensive Plan future land use
designation is industrial. The applicant is requesting approval to vacate the 30 foot wide
easement along the east side of Lots 8 and 9 of Heppers Acre Subdivision. This
easement is presumably for utilities, but there does not seem to have ever been any
utilities installed within the easement area. The applicant is proposing to vacate this
easement, so that the building being constructed on the site can be located closer to the
eastern boundary of the site within the existing easement area. A legal description and
exhibit map of the easement proposed to be vacated is included in the staff report and is
shown on the right there. Relinquishment letters were received from CenturyLink, Idaho
Power, Intermountain Gas Company, Sparklight and Nampa-Meridian Irrigation District
for the easement proposed to be vacated. No written testimony has been submitted on
this application. Staff is recommending approval of the vacation request.
Simison: Thank you. Council, any questions for staff? Seeing none, is the applicant
here? Are they online?
Allen: Steve Thiessen or Jeff Hatch?
Simison: Okay. Don't see the applicant here. So, Council, would you like to continue to
proceed without the applicant? Okay. Then do we have anyone signed up to provide
testimony on this item?
Johnson: Mr. Mayor, we did not.
Simison: Okay. Is there anybody present who would like to provide testimony on this
item? Seeing no one wishing to provide testimony, do we have a motion?
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Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: I move that we close the public hearing for Hatch Industrial, H-2022-0029.
Strader: Second.
Simison: Have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. Is there any
discussion? If not, all in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay? The ayes have it
and the public hearing is closed.
MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: I thought -- thought this was pretty clear cut and so I'm going to go ahead and
make a motion. I move that we approve the request for vacating the 30 foot wide utility
easement along the east side of Lots 8 and 9 of Heppers Acre Subdivision with application
H-2022-0029.
Strader: Second.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to approve item H-2022-0029. Is there any
discussion on the motion?
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Question for staff, Sonya or Bill. Bill is not here, so, Sonya, I guess you get the
short straw. I'm struggling to recall a time that this has happened where we haven't had
-- or -- I know we have had an applicant not be here for an annexation and we have
continued that. Can you maybe walk us through the process? My gut is to vote in
opposition of the motion, simply because I haven't heard from the applicant, but I don't
want to -- I also would probably vote in opposition of a denial without hearing from the
applicant either. So, help me understand -- maybe some historical about -- if we have
experienced this in the past and what the process has been.
Allen: Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Council, I -- I don't -- I don't believe there is any
issues, unless you have questions for the applicant that you need to have answered
before you make a decision on the application before you. The applicant has submitted
an application request. That's what's before you tonight. If you don't have any heartburn
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with it I would -- I would suggest making a motion. If you -- if you need additional
information, then, I would suggest you continue.
Cavener: Thanks.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Discuss the motion. Yeah. I'm in favor. I mean this is very straightforward. It's
a -- I don't want to say routine, because it was a request. But all the paperwork is in. It's
-- it's just a very common -- not uncommon to have these come forward for easement
vacations and as long as everything is submitted properly, every -- all the parties are in
agreement, staff is in agreement, I -- I have no problem going forward just based on the
type of application that it is, so --
Simison: Almost as if we had the planning administrator this could just like fly right on
through. If there is no further comments, ask the Clerk to call the roll.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Cavener, yea; Bernt, absent; Perreault, yea; Hoaglun, yea; Strader,
yea.
Simison: All ayes. Motion carries. The item is agreed to.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
6. Public Hearing for 1-84 and Meridian Rd. (H-2021-0099) by Hawkins
Companies, Generally Located at the Northwest Corner of S. Meridian
Rd. and Interstate 84
A. Request: Annexation of 18.30 acres of land with a C-G zoning
district.
B. Request: A Comprehensive Plan Future Land Use Map Amendment
to change the future land use designation on 33.13 acres of land from
Mixed Use — Community (MU-C) to Mixed Use — Regional (MU-R).
Simison: Next item up is a public hearing for 1-84 and Meridian Road, H-2021-0099. We
will open this public hearing with staff comments.
Allen: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council. The next applications before you
are a request for annexation and zoning and a Comprehensive Plan map amendment.
The Comprehensive Plan map amendment portion of this site consists of 33.13 acres of
land and it showed there on the map on the left and the annexation portion consists of
18.3 acres of land, zoned C-G and RUT in Ada county, that's generally located at the
northwest corner of South Meridian Road and 1-84. A little history. The northern portion
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of this site was previously annexed in 1984 and 2002. No development agreements were
required with those annexations. The Comprehensive Plan future land use map
designation is mixed use community. The applicant is requesting an amendment to the
future land use map to change the designation on 33.13 acres of land from mixed use
community to mixed use regional and annexation of 18.3 acres of land with the C-G,
General Retail and Service Commercial Zoning District. A conceptual development plan
was submitted as shown that depicts how the property proposed to be annexed, as well
as the area currently zoned C-G, is planned to develop with two big box retail stores and
a junior anchor retail space and that's retail one, consisting of 130,000 to 150,000 square
feet. Retail two, which is 80,000 square feet and retail three, lot two, 20 to 30 thousand
square feet. Three out pads with two drive-throughs and a four story 80,000 square foot
office building. The northern portion of the site already zoned C-G is entitled to develop
subject to UDC Table 11 .2.132 allowed uses in the commercial districts regardless of
whether or not the annexation is approved. So, I'm just going to back up here for a minute
and reiterate that. So, if you can see the red line here on the screen that kind of zigzags,
the portion north of that lane is already -- line is already annexed into the city and the
portion that's to the south is what is proposed in the annexation area. A vehicular
connection and stub is depicted on the concept plan to the property of the west for future
extension across the Ten Mile Creek and for interconnectivity. The applicant has
submitted an emergency access easement agreement with the property owner to the
west for access to Ruddy Drive and Waltman Lane. Per the comprehensive plan mixed
use designated areas should include at least three types of land uses. The proposed
concept plan only includes two land use types, commercial, retail and office. Although
residential land uses are still planned to develop on the adjacent property to the west, the
property is currently entitled to develop solely with commercial uses. The previous
residential development proposed for that property, Tanner Creek, was denied. Reasons
for denial included Council's determination that the sole residential use of the property
was not consistent with the MUC designation because a mix of uses wasn't proposed and
they didn't want to burden this property with providing only the nonresidential component
of the mix of uses desired for this area. For this reason staff recommended this property
and the adjacent property to the west come in for review concurrently in order to ensure
the overall development is consistent with the development guidelines in the
comprehensive plan for the mixed use designation. The applicant chose to move forward
on their own because the traffic impact study for Tanner Creek was behind theirs and
ACHD's queue for review and they didn't want to be delayed with this project. The TIS
for the proposed development included the planned residential development to the west,
Tanner Creek, and has been accepted by ACHD as of yesterday I believe. A staff report
has not yet been received from ACHD. It will probably be another three weeks at least
they said until we receive that. In accord with staff analysis in the report, the proposed
development is not consistent with the general mixed use development guidelines, the
existing mixed use community or the proposed mixed use regional guidelines. The project
as proposed is a commercial development, not mixed use. There are no significant
attempts to integrate any of the on-site uses or with any of the adjacent uses. There are
no community serving uses for existing and future residents. Pedestrian connections are
proposed through vehicular use areas, which could result in vehicular and pedestrian
conflicts and safety issues. No public or quasi-public uses are proposed, except an open
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space area that's located in the middle of the parking area with unsafe access and at the
periphery of the development along the west side. Staff is also concerned with the ability
of the transportation network being able to support the proposed development even with
improvements. For these reasons staff is not in support of the requested annexation with
the conceptual development plan proposed due to its inconsistency with the
comprehensive plan. As recommended in the preapplication meetings for this property
and the adjacent property to the west, staff recommends development applications are
submitted concurrently for these properties with a master plan for the overall area that
demonstrates consistency with the guidelines in the comprehensive plan for mixed use
developments and specifically the mixed use community designation or an alternate
designation if proposed. Alternatively, if submitted separately, the development plan for
each property should demonstrate consistency with the plan on its own merits. The
Commission's recommendation was for denial consistent with the staff report based on
their belief the requested use is not consistent with the general mixed use development
guidelines, the existing mixed use community guidelines, or the proposed mixed use
regional guidelines. Also they needed the findings for the traffic impact study before they
were able to support the application. I will go over a summary of the Commission hearing.
Ethan Mansfield, Hawkins Companies, the applicant, testified in favor, along with Matt
Schultz, representative for Tanner Creek development to the west. Kelsey Lorcher and
Joe Lorcher testified in opposition. Claire Manning and Nona Haddock commented on
the application. There was no written testimony received. The key issues of discussion
were the public testimony and agreement with staff's recommendation of denial due to
not having a master plan with the Tanner Creek development to the west. Concern
pertaining to impacts on traffic in the area from the proposed development and testimony
from the Tanner Creek developers representative that they are in favor of the proposed
development and intend to resubmit a residential development plan for the property to the
west once ACHD has accepted their traffic impact study. Key issues of discussion by the
Commission were as follows: Concern pertaining to the impact on traffic in this area if
the proposed development plan is approved and desire to have the traffic impact study
reviewed and accepted by ACHD for the overall development area in order to know the
impacts and transportation improvement requirements for the development and
consistency of the proposed development plan with the comprehensive plan. The
Commission again did not make any changes to the staff recommendation, which was for
denial and there has been no written testimony received by the city since the Commission
hearing. I believe there is a representative for ACHD here tonight to answer any
transportation questions you may have. Staff will stand for any questions.
Simison: Thank you. Council, any questions for staff? Okay. Thank you. Is the applicant
here?
Mansfield: Sorry about that, Mr. Mayor. I got too excited and jumped up before it was my
turn. I have a presentation. I think Sonya is pulling it up right now.
Simison: If you could state your name and address for the record.
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Mansfield: Sure. My name is Ethan Mansfield. I'm with Hawkins Companies and our
address is 855 West Broad Street in Boise, Idaho, and we are the developers on this
project. Let's see if I can make -- oh, thanks, Sonya. Okay. First I would like to thank
you all for your time this evening and I would like to thank staff for working on this
application with us. Your service to the community is much appreciated during this time
of exciting growth. Our request tonight is for a comprehensive plan amendment to
regional mixed use for about 33 acres and an annexation and rezone to general retail and
service commercial for about 17 acres on the northwestern corner of Meridian Road and
1-84. Before we dig in I think it's extremely important to acknowledge that 16 acres of this
site is already entitled and zoned C-G, as Sonya mentioned. As you all understand, the
zoning of a piece of land governs the specific uses and the design criteria of those uses
allowed on that land. The land use map or comprehensive plan, on the other hand, helps
define and guide the general character of future development. It helps you make
decisions about annexations, rezones and conditional use permits. In this case the 17
acres on the south side of the site are what requires this sort of action, not the northern
16 acres. The northern land is entitled and only a site plan approval is required to develop
it. The southern 17 acres are funky, there is no doubt about it. First they sit about 20 feet
below the on ramp to the Interstate. There is a steep grade going down to our site. Next
the only way to access this portion of the site is directly through the northern portion of
the site. As such, regardless of zoning or land use, the character of the development of
this southern parcel of land will largely reflect what is developed on the 16 acres of entitled
property to the north. Please consider this point throughout the discussion tonight. Now,
let's chat about the overall plan for our site. Hawkins proposes to develop a mix of retail,
food and office uses. Anchoring the development is a 145,000 square foot national
retailer. Here are the renderings of this user. Here is a perspective looking west and
northwest and here is looking west and, then, looking south from Waltman. In addition
we are proposing another large format retail box, as well as a junior anchor. Several food
users and a shop space and a four story 80,000 square foot office building in the
southeast corner of the site. Linking these uses is a network of pathways that extends
throughout the site and provides connectivity to the west and north. We propose a ten
foot multi-use pathway along Waltman to provide connectivity to the east and west and a
pedestrian and bicycle access bridge to Tanner Creek, the residential development to the
west. A sidewalk currently exists to provide connectivity to the south. The development
includes a one acre parklet positioned to provide a transition from the apartments
proposed to the west to our commercial development. It includes a one-third acre urban
plaza located near the office development and while we understand that outdoor patio
seating does not officially qualify as an amenity per code, outdoor patios don't suck and
so we have decided to include two next to our shops building and these are directly
connected to Tanner Creek via a pedestrian pathway that does not go through a parking
area and here is the renderings of these features. So, this is looking at the park, looking
northeast from the park and southeast, northwest and, then, here is a bird's eye view of
the urban plaza. A couple more views of the plaza and, then, this is the outdoor patio
space. Tanner Creek, a residential project from Schultz development, with 264 multi-
family units and 128 single family homes, is proposed immediately west of our project.
Last June City Council denied the same Tanner Creek proposal. Why? Because it did
not have commercial uses required by the mixed use land use designation -- designation
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associated with it. As Matt Schultz will share with you later this evening, Council
specifically directed him to wait until commercial uses developed to the east. Well, here
we are. Our application fulfills City Council's request. It provides office space, retail and
restaurants within walking distance and thoughtfully connected to the Tanner Creek
development. So, why couldn't we wait for Tanner Creek's application to apply with ours?
First, comp plan amendments are only processed two times per year, December 15th and
June 15th. Tanner Creek had proposed to submit in early January, relatively concurrent
with our December 15th deadline. However, ACHD required Tanner Creek to submit an
updated traffic impact study. These take a while, both to produce and to be reviewed.
Tanner Creek submitted their updated TIS in late March and it was approved yesterday
and now Matt is busy assembling the final application documents and he is planning to
hold his neighborhood meeting next Monday and will submit -- submit shortly thereafter.
At this point to require Tanner Creek to come in concurrently with us would, at a minimum,
require a six month hold until next December. As we need housing and commercial
services to serve the intense growth that Meridian is experiencing right now, this is a risky
and potentially costly move. We may not have a commercial user in six months. It's also
a move that could be avoided by simply acknowledging the reality of the situation, that
Tanner Creek and our development will complement each other and create a desirable
regional commercial and residential hub. Staff is also concerned about the current
development rights on the Tanner Creek site. Let's talk a little bit about the existing
development that could occur on the site without going through an additional entitlement
process. There is an existing development agreement on this site that governs the
development of the site. Only one of two site plans could be built in that location right
now without City Council approval. This is the first one and this is the second one.
Anything else outside of these two site plans would require a trip back to the City Council
for approval. What is the likelihood that if our site is approved for retail, food and office
uses, that the contiguous land owner would scrap a residential project and sell the land
and, then, that another 37 acre development with the same uses as ours will develop next
door in one of those two specific configurations shown here. Right now I think that
likelihood is nonexistent and I think we can all agree that this corner, our corner, is the
right place for the commercial component of a mixed use development, while the previous
location was not. Now, let's talk about the comp plan amendment and the subsequent
rezone. Here is a description of the mixed use and mixed use regional land uses from
the comp plan. In general, the purpose of the mixed use designation is to provide for a
combination of compatible land uses within a close geographic area that allows for easily
accessible and convenient services for residents and workers. The purpose of the mixed
use regional designation is to provide a mix of employment, retail and residential
dwellings and public uses near major arterial intersections. Development should be
anchored by uses that have a regional draw with appropriate supporting uses. Now, here
is a map showing the general location of our development overlaid with -- over the top of
the comp plan map. The surrounding development is already a regional destination.
Several big box stores and hotels are located on the east side of Meridian Road. Two
regional entertainment uses and event center exist across the freeway to the south. The
interchange is also the gateway to downtown Meridian and Meridian Road in front of the
site is the third busiest roadway segment in the state, surpassed only by two segments
on Eagle Road. In other words, the entitled portion of the site is begging to be developed
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into a regional destination. In that spirit we are proposing a retail center with a regional
draw, a regional employment hub, restaurants and amenities that are complementary to
Tanner Creek, which will provide 400 housing units within walking or biking distance of
our site. Put simply, our development will serve residents of the entire region, while
maintaining walkability to residents of adjacent multi-family and single family housing
developments. Per the comprehensive plan the mixed use regional designation is also
the only mixed use land use designation that supports the general retail and service
commercial zone. This appears to be expressly designed for the subject parcel.
Commercial uses in, quote, unquote, close proximity and/or access to interstate or arterial
intersections. End quote. It is logical to continue that zone to the south closer to the
interstate and the mixed use regional designation supports this, while the mixed use
community designation does not. Based on the comments we have heard from staff at
the preapplication meeting last fall, the entire reason that this site was designated
community, rather than regional mixed use, was that the transportation infrastructure
serving the site was insufficient to support a regional draw. This is an extremely
reasonable point. However, it seems that rather than limit the use of the land on this very
visible regional corner, it might be better if we simply increase the capacity of the
transportation network. Here is how we propose to do this. First, we propose to work
with ACHD to extend Corporate Drive across Ten Mile Creek to Waltman. Next we will
improve Waltman to a collector roadway with a center turn lane throughout the project.
We will also install infrastructure for a future transit stop on the corner of Waltman and
Meridian Road. Here is a cross-section of the proposed roadway improvements in front
of the site. We originally proposed an additional left-hand turn lane onto Waltman from
Meridian Road and a corresponding second westbound lane on Waltman along the site.
This was not accepted by ACHD. The accepted proposal does not include a northbound
left turn lane or a second westbound lane on Waltman per ACHD's direction. I'm about
out of time, so I would like to quickly address the integration of our site with the residential
uses to the west.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: I'm going to give you some more time. I have a question for you.
Mansfield: Thank you, sir.
Bernt: Can you be more specific and elaborate a little bit more about the transportation
aspect of what you just described? Like what you are willing to do. What -- okay. There
we go. What ACHD said you couldn't do, as opposed to what they said you could do.
Mansfield: Mr. Mayor --
Bernt: That was just too quick.
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Mansfield: Mr. Mayor, Council Member Bernt, a great question. I can go through that a
little more slowly. So, would you like me to start with the extension of Corporate Drive?
Bernt: Right here.
Mansfield: So, Mr. Mayor, Council Member Bernt, we are proposing to extend Corporate
Drive across Ten Mile Creek to Waltman and that will be a -- a two lane roadway. We are
going to improve Waltman Drive to a collector roadway with sidewalks on both sides -- or,
sorry, sidewalks on the south side where -- where we have control of the construction of
sidewalks, a multi-use pathway, two lanes in either direction and a center turn lane.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor, follow up?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: So, you are going to improve -- I noticed that the -- the -- the portion that goes
across Ten Mile Creek from Corporate to Waltman is not sort of near where your project
is. It's -- it's further -- it's further west; right?
Mansfield: Mayor Simison, Council Member Bernt, that's correct.
Bernt: So, are you proposing to not only do that, but that entirely -- so, are you proposing
to redo the transportation network on that -- basically the entire road of Waltman Lane or
just your portion of it?
Mansfield: Mr. Mayor, Council Member Bernt, we are proposing to do just our portion.
We anticipate and expect Tanner Creek to also do their portion and that's why I'm showing
that red line, because once both -- we -- we are kind of -- as you have seen master
planning --
Bernt: Right.
Mansfield: -- this development and so we are anticipating that entire segment to be
constructed as a collector roadway.
Bernt: Got it.
Mansfield: Mr. Mayor, Council Member Bernt, do you want me to keep going?
Bernt: Yeah. Yeah. And so another question would be maybe a little bit more detail on
what -- in what you proposed to ACHD and they said no to, but said yes to what they
approved.
Mansfield: Mr. Mayor -- Mayor, Council Member Bernt, yes, absolutely. So, what we
proposed in our TIS to ACHD -- what we submitted in our traffic impact study that ACHD
reviewed was a northbound left-hand turn lane on Meridian Road and, then, a westbound
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lane on Waltman to receive that second northbound turn lane and, then, in addition, our
traffic impact study proposed to continue that westbound lane all the way to the third
westernmost boundary or driveway of our retail site. ACHD in their comments back to us
essentially said, no, you don't -- you don't want to -- or you don't need to do that
northbound left turn lane and we only want one westbound lane as shown here.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: If I remember correctly there is already an area on Meridian Road for a left --
a second left turn lane. It's currently stripped out right now, but it exists. It's there. So, I
-- I'm not -- ACHD is saying no to that? It's actually already existing, it's just not being
able to be used right now, but it's -- it's there, the left -- a second left turn lane going north
on Meridian Road onto Waltman, it already exists, but they have it stripped out, so --
Simison: Well, we have ACHD on here, so we can pick that up with them as soon as we
get through the presentation.
Bernt: I'm clear. We are good.
Mansfield: Mr. Mayor, thank you. And -- and I'm, again, happy to answer any of these
questions and -- and help clarify, but we will let ACHD take a crack at it first, because they
are the experts.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Can we go back another slide to the overall -- no. One more. Yeah. So, would
-- would your proposal include acquiring all of the right of way of West Corporate Drive?
At what point would that be completed, that connection?
Mansfield: Mr. Mayor, Council Member Strader, that right of way currently exists and has
been acquired previously by the efforts I believe of ACHD, but I -- I don't know by whom.
But it does exist as right of way.
Strader: Mr. Mayor, if I could follow up.
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Just to make sure I am understanding, are you proposing with ACHD that you
do an agreement and that you will build the road or are you proposing just to build the
segment on your C-G property and, then, you believe ACHD will complete this? Because
we -- we are going to need a complete -- my opinion we need kind of a comprehensive
solution to come forward here through one -- one way or another.
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Simison: And maybe we can help answer that. I believe that this Corporate Road
connection has been part of all the previous conversations for the development of this
project for the last 16 years. So, it's probably already tied to the existing development
agreements on this property.
Mansfield: Mr. Mayor, you -- you are correct. We are anticipating and we have discussed
with ACHD the possibility to cost share on the Corporate Drive to -- to ensure that's
extended, as well as the bridge over Waltman, you know, redone as a collector bridge --
bridge over Ten Mile Creek. Excuse me. You know, prior to certificate of occupancy of
any -- any of our developments.
Strader: Thanks.
Simison: Ethan, we will let you finish your presentation, then, we can come back to
questions.
Bernt: Sorry, buddy.
Simison: No, you are good.
Mansfield: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. So, let's -- let's pick it up where we are discussing the
integration with the surrounding development. So, I would like to quickly address the
integration of our site with the residential uses to the west. We both integrate and buffer
our regional development by providing a one acre pocket park between the residential
portion of the development and the commercial portion of the development. This
represents nearly 40 percent of the frontage along Ten Mile Creek and serves bicycle and
pedestrian traffic that travel between the two uses. The remaining frontage is separated
by 129 feet of riparian area creek, landscaping, and a 20 foot drive aisle. Importantly, we
feel that this building is oriented in the best way a regional store could be to minimize
impacts to the surrounding residential development. In sum, we are beefing up the
transportation infrastructure to keep pace with a mix of uses that we want to be on this
corner. Our proposed mix of uses is of a similar scale and fits appropriately within the
surrounding development. While we can develop the northern portion of the site with only
a site plan review, we want to incorporate the land to the south, which will develop in a
character similar to the north and integrate with the residential property to the east. With
roadway improvements and enhanced connectivity delivered by this project and Tanner
Creek to the west, we proposed to capitalize on the location of this site to deliver homes,
jobs, goods and services at the population epicenter of the Treasure Valley. We look
forward to your approval of this project. Thanks so much and I'm happy to stand for any
questions.
Simison: Thank you. Council, questions?
Bernt: Mr. Mayor, I got a question.
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
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Bernt: Thank you for your clarity early with the transportation stuff. I appreciate it. So,
my next question has to do with your -- your amendment to the comprehensive plan, the
FLUM. So, if you -- my -- my question is if you are already trying to make a -- you know,
a FLUM change, comprehensive plan change, why wouldn't you make that change if you
are needing to match the -- the -- the -- the -- the commercial use? Why not do it C-G
throughout the whole project, instead of having it be mixed use, when you don't have any
anticipation of making anything residential?
Mansfield: Mr. Mayor, Council Member Bernt, that is an excellent question and we did
have a reason behind it. So, the -- the main there -- there are kind of two reasons. So,
the first reason is because we anticipated coming in concurrently with a residential use in
Tanner Creek. The reason that they got held up was simply because of a TIS issue. They
were fully intending to come in with us as planned, so we had actually applied in
December -- and we met the December 15th deadline and Matt was expecting to apply
and, then, he contacted ACHD to just check in and ensure that everything was okay and
at that point was instructed that he needed to do an update to his -- to his plan. So, at
that point we had already submitted with mixed use regional. Staff actually directed us
not to go to the commercial, because, then, we would be leaving the mixed use
community portion upon which Tanner Creek is placed, as a purely residential project with
no mix of uses. So, we -- that's the entire reason that we -- you know, we were originally
planning to come in together was because he had the residential, we had the commercial
and that -- I mean that complements each other to a mixed use development and I should
note that we are extremely open to a comprehensive plan change to commercial if that is
what the Council desires. I would also hate to leave Matt in a lurch by, then, having to
provide some small component of commercial or development just to comply with the
mixed use comp plan designation when we have a mix of uses here already.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: We love it when --when developers and applicants get together and try to sort
of do a mini master plan of an area. So, thank you for working together in that regard.
But I do have a question about that. If Tanner Creek were not to be approved, then, where
does that leave you guys as far as now you are no longer meeting your development
agreement to have multiple uses. That -- that's the -- the first question. And -- and, then,
of course, then, how would -- you know, would you just re -- redo your concept plan or
what would you do?
Mansfield: Mr. Mayor, Council Member Perreault, that's a -- that's also a great question
and I -- I think I have an answer for you. So -- yeah. So, what if Tanner Creek didn't come
in? So, currently there is -- there is two kind of commercial plans that exist on that and
they would -- whatever developer would have to probably come back to you all to seek to
get permission to what -- for whatever came next if Tanner Creek did not come. So, at
that point you would have some discretion over whether or not you wanted additional
commercial there or if you were more interested in having residential, you know, you
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would have the authority to kind of guide that and dictate that, because it is mixed use --
commercial community now. So, you know, another option would be simply to allow us
the FLUM designation of commercial, which would, you know, give us what we want, but,
again, I would hate to -- to not allow Tanner Creek to come through because of that and
if you guys are okay with that -- or Council is okay with that, then, that's perfectly
acceptable to us, as long as we can both come in. Another alternative is that we can offer
to remove the 80,000 square foot big box store. I -- I do have a Massey plan that shows
residential on the site, so we could potentially do a multi-family product there if that's
something that -- that Council is interested in. The reason, obviously, we did not propose
this originally was because we know that Tanner Creek is right behind us, so -- but, you
know, if -- if that is something that Council desires and they want some residential there,
we are certainly happy to accommodate that. And, again, I should also mention really
quickly that would require a conditional use permit, so it would be reviewed for all of the
standards in the UDO that -- that are important.
Strader: Mr. Mayor, I have a quick question for staff.
Simison: Council Woman Perreault still has questions.
Strader: Oh, I apologize.
Simison: No worries.
Perreault: Sorry about that. So, one of the -- you know, the project that you mentioned
to the east with Home Depot and Winco, you know, getting in there is sometimes a little
bit awkward. It's a narrow road. However, they have that frontage road that runs all the
way along -- you know, the front of Winco, around Home Depot, and if-- if all of that traffic
was moving through the parking lot north, you know, and out of Winco on the north side
onto that, essentially, what would be an extension of Waltman, that would be an entirely
different flow of traffic; right? Because they have that frontage road it -- it's able to move
traffic and disperse it away from the multiple stores in there in a much more even capacity.
Is there any -- has there been any consideration of doing that same concept on your site,
so that Waltman isn't carrying the load of all the vehicles coming in and, then, they are
going up and down the parking lot to exit versus going out onto a frontage road to exit?
Mansfield: Mr. Mayor, Council Member Perreault, were -- did you have additional
questions you --
Perreault: Yeah. One --just one more.
Mansfield: Sure.
Perreault: Just some feedback really. The little plaza area in the middle, I personally
wouldn't go buy food and walk to the middle of the parking lot and sit down and eat it or
hang out there. I -- I would feel that -- I feel like it would be a lot more -- I mean you got
car exhaust and all that stuff. I feel like it would be a lot more beneficial to take smaller
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spaces and put them up next to the restaurants and whatnot to create more of that plaza
space, but that's just a -- I wouldn't go out -- it's almost like an island unto itself. I probably
wouldn't utilize it, but if you had smaller spaces all around the buildings that create the
same effect I think it would be more efficient. That's all.
Mansfield: Mr. Mayor, Council Member Perreault, that is great feedback and we will
certainly look into -- to doing that. I -- I can see a spot that appears like it may work well,
in fact. So, thank you. To answer your other question, you know, we -- we do have a few
different kind of continuous drive aisles and I wish I had highlighted those more kind of
robustly, but that first kind of eastern most driveway does kind of feed a continuous -- it's
a little bit hard to tell, because there is so many trees on this plan, but you can -- you can
actually see how it curves, so it starts south, curves around, and, then, it kind of provides
access to each of these pads and, then, it loops around and -- and connects to this main
east-west drive aisle in the center of the site and, then, you curve back and -- and -- and
can kind of go out behind that retail one building. So, I think, you know, we -- we can
additionally kind of add kind of wayfinding markings to -- to enhance that connectivity if
that's of interest, but that's kind of the intent and also a lot of the traffic to reach the
southern portion of the site would come south or through the --the drive aisle behind retail
one. I'm not -- did that answer your question?
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: Yeah, it -- it -- yes, it is a bit hard to see on this, so I -- I didn't quite gather it. I
just assumed like the -- the two -- the two aisles that loop around on the east side, those
are drive-throughs; right? And -- yeah, I just don't -- I guess I just don't see like a main
road that's coming in that's collecting all of the traffic and keeping people from driving
across all the parking spaces.
Mansfield: Yeah. Let me -- or Mr. Mayor, Commission -- or Council Member Perreault,
let me -- let me get to a better site plan for you, because I think it will become a little bit
more clear. I think maybe our transportation piece might show it. So, here is kind of the
start of the eastern most drive aisle of our site. You can tell there is no parking spaces
right on it. You do have to turn off into a parking field and, additionally, you know, you turn
either as you are, you know, driving into it to the right to access the retail one parking field
or to the left to access the pad parking fields and -- and/or the drive through area. So,
you know, this is kind of a feeder. I would say the main feeder really to get back to the --
the stuff on the south is on the far western drive aisle. So, obviously, the drive aisle
immediately in front of retail one would most likely only be used by retail one customers
would be the anticipation. That's how it's -- that's how it's designed to function here.
Simison: Council Woman Strader?
Strader: Thanks, Mr. Mayor. A quick question for staff and, then, maybe the applicant
will react to it if appropriate, but I guess -- you know, so my understanding is that we
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consider comprehensive plan amendments twice per year, but I -- I didn't interpret that
that we can only approve them certain times per year. So, I guess my question would be
if we were --we started considering this. If we were to continue it is it true that they would
have to wait until December or could we perhaps continue this for two months until Tanner
Creek could come through and, then, continue considering -- you know, continue to
consider it.
Allen: Council Woman Strader, Mr. Mayor, I will defer to the planning manager on that.
Hood: Mr. Mayor, Council, good evening. We actually -- we talked about this, because
the language in the code actually says the Council may act on comprehensive plan map
amendments twice a year. Now, that's a calendar year or how that works -- it is actually
a question. I don't know if Bill wants to also chime in here, but it did come up, because
we were playing that scenario. They -- obviously, we are together tonight with the two
that were submitted then. I think that is a viable option potentially to continue this for
some time and still be within the confines, but I'm not an attorney. And, again, did -- did
bring that up and raise that -- that same question here recently.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Yes, Mr. Nary.
Nary: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, so prior -- when this used to be part of the
Idaho Code before it was in the UDC, that was the standard that the courts applied. You
had to apply for it, but presuming -- Council can't hear all of these things in one day or in
one evening or make one decision one time. So, we have bundled them over the years
and, then, process them through as long as they meet the deadline for -- to apply for the
change. So, I have no concern if the desire of the Council is to continue this for a bit to
let Tanner Creek catch up and, then, hear them together. Again, I don't know if the
applicant's okay with that, but I don't have a legal issue with that.
Simison: Council Woman Strader, the applicant is getting their feedback for you on that
question. Councilman Borton.
Borton: While they are doing that, Sonya, can you put a fine point on the specific use that
you can do with the mixed use regional that you cannot -- the -- with the zone, but mixed
use community prohibits it. Why is the map amendment required for this project?
Allen: Mr. Mayor, Councilman Borton, Council, because of the square footage of the big
box, it's over 30,000 square feet --
Borton: I thought that was already annexed and zoned.
Allen: Excuse me. You are right. It is. On that portion of the site.
Simison: Let's go back to question --
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Allen: I believe it was the office -- was -- was it 80,000? Yeah. Eighty thousand square
foot office building. And that is in the annexation area. It's not allowed in the mixed use
community, but it is in the mixed use regional.
Borton: Okay. Thank you.
Simison: Back to your question, Ethan.
Mansfield: Mr. Mayor, the question was about the continuance or --
Simison: Yeah. Council Woman Strader was essentially asking if we didn't have to make
a decision tonight and want to continue. Staff said that's okay.
Mansfield: Mr. Mayor, our -- our-- obviously our preference would be to reach a decision
tonight. We are happy to provide additional information to you tonight if that helps make
a decision and I -- it makes it really difficult, primarily because we have, you know,
something in the works with retail one that, then, gets pushed off and the more it gets
pushed off the less likely it is to happen and so we are --we are challenged in that respect,
because the economics of it are continually changing and we can -- we understand that,
you know, you cannot make decisions based on that, so that's just kind of where we are
and I'm just trying to be honest with -- with Council. Yeah, we would obviously prefer an
approval, but -- and -- and happy to answer any questions that would help you make the
decision and if it's just waiting for Tanner Creek we -- that is what it is.
Simison: To play off of that, you also have something in the works for the four story office?
Mansfield: They -- we -- we do have several interested users, Mr. Mayor, yes.
Simison: Maybe in companies in the community, they are looking to stay here and
expand.
Mansfield: To my knowledge there -- there are companies in the community that are
interested.
Simison: Yeah.
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: So, among the challenges that this chicken or the egg has is you are -- you are,
in essence, saying -- you are asking to be conditioned to provide extremely significant off-
site improvements -- roadway improvements, some of which are perhaps coming with --
with agreement in a future Tanner Creek application. Maybe. Maybe not. Right? But
that's part of it. But also the connection to Waltman, which isn't annexed yet, so how does
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-- if -- if that's a piece of the puzzle that's required that you are consenting to provide the
northern connection -- or not Waltman. Excuse me. Corporate. Yes. Right? That
crosses county property that's not subject to any application, I believe. So, how does that
condition -- and you are asking to agree to that, but that's a -- I don't see how you can do
that.
Mansfield: Mr. Mayor, Council Member Borton, in previous approvals there have been --
I should -- let me start over. Previous approvals have been conditioned upon providing
the Corporate Lane extension and bridge. The -- the assumption being the right of way
is there, there needs not be a land use application to improve what is now a piece of grass
and no bridge, to a bridge and a roadway. So, there -- there needs not be a land use
application to construct those improvements. Those are off-site improvements that we,
in discussions with ACHD, have agreed to construct with them.
Borton: Mr. Mayor -- and I may be missed --
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Mansfield: I think I might be missing something, too.
Borton: So, the -- the connection -- Waltman going north to connect to Corporate, who
owns that land? I mean who -- whose property are you building a road on?
Mansfield: Mr. Mayor, Council Member Borton, currently nobody's property. It's -- it's
currently right of way. It's been acquired by Ada County Highway District.
Borton: Okay. Okay. That's -- that was the disconnect. Okay.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Just to I guess dialogue a little bit further. I mean of course you would like an
approval tonight. I'm sure every applicant that comes before us would. I'm struggling
with the same concept as Councilman Borton, which is that the comprehensive strategy
to address the transportation network is dependent on the development of another
property. In your presentation in your timeline you stated that you would have to wait until
December. We have established that that is not true. It's possible that you might wait
two months for Tanner Creek to come through and, then, you are off and running. Do you
-- so, are you saying, no, no matter what, I want a decision tonight or are you more
flexible? And I will just tell you like I -- with the information before me today, without
Tanner Creek before me, I -- I can't get on board with it. That's just me. But I -- anyway,
if you want to maybe reflect further, but --
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
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Simison: Yeah. Let the applicant -- if they would like to reply at this time or not. Okay.
We are going to defer on that response to Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: Thank you very much. I wanted to add on to what Council Woman Strader
was saying and that's just that Tanner Creek isn't approved. You are coming back with
another comprehensive map amendment to C-C on that southern property and you are
going to spend just as many months out waiting to do that in December than if you wait
for two months for Tanner Creek to come through and have an approval potentially at the
same time. So, you could be risking more time delay if-- you know. And so I guess that's
-- you know, the -- if-- if Council -- again these are ifs; right? I'm just -- I'm just talking this
out to make sure that we are -- that -- that we are helping the timeline work for you. If you
were to get a denial this evening based on the fact that --that we don't see this as a mixed
use regional in and of itself, then, you are waiting a year before you apply again. So, I --
I -- I agree with Council Woman Strader in that I am concerned -- I'm concerned about
approving your application based on something another applicant is doing, but we don't
have the information and no guarantee it will get approved and, you know, I understand
that when they apply, if they are -- if they are applying and -- and stating that they are a
portion -- that -- that -- they are mixed use community currently as well, I think, and so,
then, they are going to say, well, you know, our commercial piece is -- is -- is the Hawkins
application, then, I just think it -- I mean was there any discussion about actually
submitting these applications jointly and realizing that you need this comprehensive map
approval to do that, but --
Mansfield: Mr. Mayor, Council Member Perreault, that was the -- the original intent was
to submit them concurrently, not -- not jointly. In the TIS we included background traffic
from Tanner Creek and vice-versa. So, essentially, what we had was joint -- pretty much
joint applications, with the exception of Tanner Creek experiencing the delay, because
they had to update their TIS versus us who had a TIS ready to go -- or, frankly, us who
really didn't need a TIS, because we are not coming through with a conditional use permit
or a preliminary plat. This is all just a comprehensive plan amendment and annexation
and rezone. I suppose one other point -- or one other point I would like to just understand
is if we did pursue the same project, but instead of the 80,000 square foot big box, we
provide multi-family thereby meeting the intent of three different types of uses, would that
push us anywhere into the approval this evening, because that appears -- if we are simply
waiting for a residential component to come along, we can provide that and it does appear
that what I'm hearing is that we expect Tanner Creek to provide that. However, we are
willing to also provide a component of multi-family housing.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Ethan, can you go back -- you had a -- I think the previous slide that kind of
had your more commercial, your more retail concept map before us.
Mansfield: Yeah. Something like this or more zoomed in --
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Cavener: More zoomed in.
Mansfield: Okay.
Cavener: It was like the previous slide that you were on before you moved over to that
one.
Mansfield: The woes of having too many slides.
Cavener: And while you are looking for that I guess what I'm going to ask you to do --
that one right there. Perfect. Help walk me through -- if -- if I'm a customer at lot -- lot
eight or lot six, that south -- southwestern property and I want to leave to get onto Waltman
to go home, what -- what are my options? How do I get there? And I will just share --
because here is kind of what I'm envisioning a little bit is the retail complex at -- at Eagle
and Fairview, very popular, but there is a challenge if you are shopping at let's say the
marketplace Albertsons and, then, you want to go to Goodwood for dinner, navigating
through that to get there is really challenging and it's something that has been challenging
both for the customers, the -- the owners, the employees and -- and at first glance I see
some of the same problem. I think it's -- to what Council Member Perreault is trying to
inquire about how you are trying to move traffic through there. So, maybe walk me
through -- if I'm a customer at -- at-- at lot six what are my ways that I'm able to get home?
And you can use your mouse if that's helpful.
Mansfield: Thank you. Mr. Mayor, Council Member Cavener, I -- I just want to make sure
we are kind of on the same page with referring to this particular -- this southwestern -- so,
if I am a customer trying to leave the center -- I have a couple of options. I think the most
efficient would be to head north out of the parking lot, turn left on this service drive here,
go north and, then, I can turn either left or -- left or right onto Waltman, depending on if
need to go north, because keep in mind we have connectivity now to the north.
Cavener: So, Mr. Mayor, if I may.
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Ethan, I agree with you. I think that that's likely the place that the -- I think not
just the customers from the lot eight, but I think throughout the complex are going to use
that kind of backage area to kind of be an express lane out and I worry, because it's right
by where you have put this little pocket park and so I can appreciate what I think that you
are -- you are doing. I -- I just think that there needs to be a little bit more thought put into
how you are going to navigate pedestrians, bicycles, but you are wanting to be thoughtful
of them and putting them in direct conflict of -- where I think is going to be kind of the --
everybody knows it's the secret way out and I think that this -- if you are wanting to move
forth in -- in a manner which I -- which I think you are trying to accomplish, which is to
really integrate the --the residential and the commercial uses together, how are you going
to orientate traffic needs to -- in my opinion to have a second look?
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Mansfield: Yeah. Mr. Mayor, Council Member Cavener, that's noted and I think that's a
great point. I -- I think it's also -- my colleague Colby just mentioned to me that we -- we
do have two other routes that are -- that are possible. So, another route that might be
equally used is -- is up here, you know, going this way on the north kind of the -- sorry.
The eastern most side -- heading north on the eastern most drive aisle to get out here,
likely to turn right on Meridian.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Ethan, you are an expert when it comes to some of this stuff. I know you are
not here before me kind of implying that's where you think people are going to go. I mean
that is the furthest approach that a -- that a customer is going to take and I appreciate
that it's there as an option and certainly if that back way is blocked that's the way people
will go, but I think it's important that we look -- and you know the buying habits and the
driving habits of the customers that your tenant is seeking out and I think that we -- we all
know that they are not going to take the long way to get home after they have got a -- you
know, a trunk full of groceries and other--other dry goods from --from a proposed retailer.
So, just for what it's worth I'm going to push back on you a little bit. I -- I think you guys
have put a lot of thought into this, but I think the way you are going to move traffic deserves
the equal amount of thought being put into it.
Mansfield: Mr. Mayor, Council Member Cavener, that's noted and I think one option might
be to -- but, you know, potentially look at some sort of paint or other kind of traffic calming
measures on that rear driveway and I think, you know, to -- to -- to get out to Meridian
Road and turn right and go south -- this may not truly be the -- the slowest route. I -- I --
I don't-- I don't know. But, obviously, if you are trying to get north this would be the fastest
here for sure.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, I guess I want to just address one thing of
timing that the applicant has raised is the --the-- simply switching out a commercial office
--or commercial user to a residential component hasn't been reviewed by planning, hasn't
been reviewed by P&Z, has been reviewed by ACHD and, of course, it wasn't noticed, by
that way, so I don't know that neighbors in that area would have a bigger concern about
that than they know right now it's just two stores or multiple stores and restaurants. So, I
would be concerned in simply just saying we will flip it to a -- a -- a residential component
and we are good to go, because I really am concerned about that from a record
standpoint.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
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Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Cavener: Thank you. I would like to share a couple of thoughts based on what
Councilman Cavener was presenting. A comparison of two shopping centers I can think
of right now that have these backage roads. One that I think does it well and one I think
does it poorly. Centrepoint Way on Ustick and Eagle -- Centrepoint Way -- it is a collector
road. That's not what you are proposing here, but is a collector road that runs behind
Kohl's and all those other stores. It's done especially well. You know, gets people out of
that parking lot, there is multiple exits out of there. In Nampa the -- the area that has the
Chick-fil-A and the Burlington Coat Factory and everything on that south side, there --
there are these roads that run behind the stores there on the west side of that. No one
ever uses them, because they don't even know they are there. So, one is done well and
one is done not so well, but both with the same intent. So, my recommendation would be
to make that either -- if that's going to be one of your main exits and entrances to -- to
really build it up that way and -- or to build up the -- the most easterly exit as more of like
a boulevard type of feel. One way or the other you need to have a design that shows that
this is how you are exiting, because there is nowhere in here that is obvious that you are
supposed to use this as the main entrance and exit. So, I think that's what Councilman
Cavener was somewhat getting at. The second thing I wanted to ask was -- from another
slide that you had it showed that maybe there was some multi-family that was going to go
in there in the western side and the Tanner Creek development. Why buffer one section
of that and -- the north section and not the southern section when there is essentially
going to be multi-family all up and down that same -- same side. There is not different
uses that are abutting that western boundary; right?
Mansfield: Mr. Mayor, Council Member Perreault, are -- and you are referring to the multi-
family --
Perreault: On the Tanner Creek application.
Mansfield: On the Tanner Creek application. And you are referring to our buffer with our
current kind of proposed plan? So, you are referring to this area right here?
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: No. I mean the park. So, why have the park and all of that space that's
buffering -- yes, the -- that building is -- is big, but the building to the south is not small,
so unless there is a different type of residential use between the -- the largest building
and, you know, where the park is buffering it and I don't understand the reason to buffer
the north side, instead of the south side. They are both pretty significantly sized buildings.
Mansfield: Mr. -- Mr. Mayor, Council Member Perreault, the -- the site plan -- we -- we are
open to feedback on the site plan I think. I mean it's not -- I think we site planned it this
way because this small parklet does provide a buffer to some of the development and I
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also did want to point out that there is 130 feet between the building and even the sidewalk
on the -- across the side -- across the canal on the Tanner Creek side. So, there is 130
feet and an additional 20, probably, to the actual building itself. You know, we could
explore changing the open space a little bit. I don't -- I don't know that we are completely
closed off to the idea of working to get a site plan that makes more sense and I think we
certainly can't -- we feel that this is the best that we could come forward with at this time,
but we are certainly open to -- to -- you know, we are not omniscient. If you guys have
feedback we appreciate it.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: I might not have phrased my question very well. It wasn't a -- a
recommendation necessarily. What I was asking is is there something specific about
Tanner Creek on the west side that causes you to buffer one area and not the northern
area and not the southern area?
Mansfield: Mr. Mayor, Council Member Perreault, I'm sorry I misunderstood your
question. No, the product is similar. It's both multi-family. The Tanner Creek product --
and Matt's here and he can speak a little more to this perhaps, but the Tanner Creek
product is all multi-family along the portion that interacts with our development.
Simison: How about for the property to the north of that open space, I don't -- with open
space -- I mean to be honest with you this open space to me is just like a fish out of water,
except for we didn't want to put too much next to that property and a lot of the property to
the north -- or -- I'm trying to look at this as the regional and -- you know, everything all
together and why does this open space exist on your portion of the property. I cannot go
to any regional retail center and expect to go sit in the park. I mean per -- it just seems
like we are just throwing something in to make it -- me check a box that's required for
development in a lot of ways, because it just seems awkward, but --
Mansfield: Mr. Mayor, you know, you are correct, I don't -- I don't go to a shopping center
to go sit in a park either and -- and, frankly, we would not be opposed to removing that
park area I don't think. The -- the intent was not to put it in the center of a parking lot,
because, then, you really have -- you know, you have got the Home Depot in Eagle, right,
where you walk up and you see this dilapidated little sad looking gazebo thing that's like
rotting away and you are like, oh, that was a failed city planning exercise. As a former
planner, you know, I realize it's extremely valuable to -- to have open space and
sometimes in certain developments it's just not appropriate, because we all know it won't
get used and so we are -- I -- I don't disagree with you that it may not get used in this
location. The intent was to provide a -- an extra little bit of buffer. If we are going to put
it somewhere -- if we have to put it somewhere, this is the spot that makes the most
sense, because the adjacent walkers and bikers may actually use it, rather than walking
to the middle of a parking lot and drinking their Coke.
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Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Yeah. I -- I -- I think this is one of the areas where, you know, I -- I sort of see a
shortfall in terms of what we ask for from our mixed use and I -- and I think we are trying
to get better and better about it, but like the true integration of uses I think is a -- is a high
mark to try to hit, but like an example of that might be, you know, if -- if instead of the
island in the middle of the parking lot, all along the west side you had this kind of
continuous strip of green space and, then, that saddled up to, you know, restaurant uses
that had integrated their patios with that park space, for example, and you had bike paths
going from the residential so people could come and have like a dining experience off of
this park near some retail uses, like that would be an example to me of sort of integrating
those things together. I'm not seeing that integration necessarily. I think it's good to keep
the areas separated out if it can be achieved, but that -- that's just some feedback about
the open space. I agree like having it as kind of a little island in the middle of a parking
lot is not the best use. If you feel that buffering and transition are needed, I would rather
see more of it than less and, then, I also agree with Councilman Cavener, I think -- I think
you need to come back with a lot more -- if it even, you know, moves forward a lot more
thought around explaining the traffic flow within the parking lot, how people enter and exit.
So, I just -- I don't -- I don't personally feel like this concept is baked tonight enough to
make a decision, like saying things like maybe we will swap out a residential use -- like
that doesn't give me a lot of confidence to make a decision. But I -- I have already said
where I'm at, but just -- I -- I guess that's more feedback for you.
Mansfield: Mr. Mayor, Council Member Strader, just -- just to make a comment, this --
this is an annexation and a rezone, it is not a site plan review, so I think -- I appreciate all
of the comments and these can be dealt with in a site plan review and if specific -- if
specific things are needed we -- you know, this is -- you -- you can condition these in a
site plan -- for a site plan review. You know, we -- and -- and, you know, I can think about
all of these things that you are saying tonight and we can start working on making changes
to them, so just my thoughts on -- on the application at hand.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Yeah. I appreciate that, Ethan. Yeah. I -- whatever we decide -- I don't know
what that is, but I -- I would like to hear from everyone tonight and move forward. That
will probably bring up some more questions and issues and whatnot and -- and, then, we
can keep trudging forward and -- and see where we end up. So, I'm -- I'm ready to hear
from some others if you wouldn't mind.
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Simison: Thank you, Evan. Mr. Clerk, do we have anyone signed up to provide
testimony?
Johnson: Mr. Mayor, we do. First is Joe Lorcher.
Simison: And when you --when you come forward if you will state your name and address
for the record and be recognized for three minutes.
Lorcher: Joe Lorcher. 740 West Waltman Lane. My property is the property where the
red arrow was going north. That property I sold to Ada County Highway District back in
2008. So, that is owned by Ada County Highway District. So, I just wanted to clarify that.
I'm here to testify saying that it just can't handle the traffic that this is going to bring. If
any of you have tried to use that intersection to try to get through -- I know the fire
department can't get through at 5:00 o'clock. We have seen fire trucks stuck at that
intersection trying to get through and with the Ada County Highway District saying they
are not going to add another turn lane, that there is still going to be just one lane and
expected usage is 900 cars per hour during peak season -- or peak hours, I'm a one car
trying to get through there. Right now it's probably five cars per hour and we get stuck.
So, something major has to be done to that intersection before this can be considered
regional. Let's keep it community mixed. Let's try to keep the density down as much as
we can and the fact that they are saying they are with Tanner Creek and Tanner Creek is
saying they are with them, but they are not. They are just using the good part of being
together and not coming and showing all the parts together. So, I really would like them
to present together their proposals and their traffic impact studies together, instead of
saying -- just using the fact that this one's residential, so this will help us and this one's
commercial, so this will help us on the mixed use definition, but they are not coming in
together to make it so we can see the whole picture and all the traffic impact that that's
going to cause and they are asking to change it to a regional land use, instead of
community land use, and one of his definitions was easily access to a regional land use
area. Again, this is not easy access. This intersection it's just way overcrowded now and
-- and just can't use this kind of usage and I can't remember who talked about a second
turn lane already stripped out. It's not stripped out, it's an island. It can be changed,
obviously, and take that island out, but right now there is only one lane turning left, one
lane going on to Waltman Lane and -- and with this increase of traffic that's got to change
-- and I mean it's not something you guys can do, it's obviously Ada County Highway
District, but just want to put all those things in thoughts together and -- and I think the best
thing to do -- is -- is hopefully just postpone this and wait until they can come together
and present it together. We are not against developing this land. There is coyotes over
there killing my cats, so I would like something to happen, but I want to keep it minimal
as possible. Keep it community, mixed use, so that we don't have 400 houses across the
street, we have 200 houses, which is plenty. That's all.
Simison: Thank you. Council, any questions? Thank you.
Johnson: Mr. Mayor, next is Kelsee Lorcher. Kelsey is on Zoom.
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K.Lorcher: Hi. Can you hear me?
Simison: Yes, we can.
K.Lorcher: Okay. Kelsee Lorcher. 2099 West Snyder Drive, Meridian, Idaho. The city
requested for Tanner Creek and Hawkins to apply together or at the same time and to
propose a master plan. Hawkins has failed to provide that master plan and moved
forward and applied on his own anyways. Yet Hawkins is still relying on Tanner Creek to
be his other elements of mixed use to have his proposal approved today. This area is
designated for mixed community and should remain mixed community, as Waltman Lane,
Meridian Road intersection is already burdened with heavy traffic issues. Mixed regional
is highly inappropriate for this area, as it is a high dense commercial development and
will create a bigger burden, more traffic issues, for the gateway of Meridian. Development
in this area needs to follow the comprehensive plan that took two years and 200,000
dollars to complete. So, we should follow it. Another important issue with this application
is Hawkins does not have their impact study -- traffic impact study completed and neither
does Tanner Creek. So, there are many details and facts that are not being presented
today and without all the facts and without a master plan this development should not be
approved. Hawkins jumped the gun when they should have waited for Tanner. Per the
staff report in regards to the northbound left turn from Meridian Road, it says there is
inadequate storage for northbound left turns into the project site onto Waltman Lane. A
dual left turn is likely needed in this location, even with community use -- even with
community uses occurring here, let alone regional serving uses and as you heard from
Ethan there will be no second left hand turn lane. According to Ethan's slideshow at the
neighborhood meeting last week there is a slide that said that there would be 10,891
vehicles daily on Waltman Lane and that's not even considering Tanner Creek daily
vehicle trips and over 950 vehicles per hour during peak hours. This intersection
absolutely cannot handle that kind of traffic. I want to leave off with an important
paragraph from the staff report. It said -- it is essential that analysis by both the Idaho
Transportation Department and the Ada County Highway District be fully and thoroughly
reviewed and that Commission and City Council be able to consider the full array of both
land use and transportation impacts before making a decision. Considering approvals in
silos, either iteratively through subsequent requests by different projects, or by multiple
agencies in different stages of review, may cause irreparable harm -- irreparable harm to
the city's flagship and namesake interchange and entryway into the city. There should be
no lingering or unanswered questions and nothing left to chance or later change given
the importance of this area. That's all. Thank you.
Simison: Thank you, Kelsee. Council, any questions? Okay.
Johnson: Mr. Mayor, next is Clair Manning. And Clair has a slideshow, so he's coming
in as a panelist and, Clair, you can share your screen.
Manning: Hi. Can you hear me?
Simison: Yes.
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June 14,2022
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Manning: I'm -- I'm Clair Manning at 650 West Waltman Lane. Can you see my screen
now?
Simison: Yes.
Manning: Okay. So, first I would like to thank the Planning and Zoning staff for their
detailed analysis of this application. They did a phenomenal job on the report and I don't
think you have -- I don't think the responsibility of the city leaves you with any other choice
but to deny this application. The city did spend a lot of time and resources developing
this comprehensive plan and there is a good reason this was designated mixed use
community and not mixed use regional and the simple fact is that we can't --that this area
does not -- is not well suited for the high traffic those kind of commercial buildings will
bring. So, I had a couple quick sides to show -- illustrate some of this. You can see from
the -- from the image on the right that there is just this really short left turning lane. It is
not stripped out as Joe pointed out and there is just an island here and I was looking at it
today after I talked to ACHD and the reason they were telling me they don't want that is
there is not a real good way to put in that second -- that second lane and so I would
encourage you to bring them into your questioning, because there really isn't a good way
to improve this left hand turn and you can see once you are on Whitman Lane there really
is a really short runway before you are into the complex and it really just can't sustain the
amount of traffic that you are trying to put through there without backing things up and
blocking the arterial intersection. There is a lot of things to talk about here I don't have
time for, but there is a whole slew of problems with this intersection and they are really
not making any improvements to this beyond widening the road out here to Waltman on
a collector. So, I would encourage you to bring in the ACHD representative to talk a little
bit about that and your questions and so ACHD is currently evaluating the traffic study
and they will only provide a staff report after a site plan, so that report is not part of that
access you have in this area. However -- so, I did include an excerpt that I was able to
get today and you can see that with their analysis with the Tanner Creek isn't a report
card that any parents can be proud of, because there is a lot of level service at F ratings
on this intersection and I saw in the report 13,500 trips being generated from the retail
alone, which really outstrips the 3,000 trip guideline for a collector. So, I really do think
that you are overburdening this area. So, in conclusion this area really can't sustain the
current commercial zoning. They are entitled, sure, but it really just can't sustain it and,
you know, for that reason you can't really compound this problem by changing the land
designation to mixed use regional, because it can't handle it. So, I can't really say
anything better than your staff did when they pointed put that you could cause irreparable
harm to the flagship entrance to the city, so please deny this application.
Simison: Thank you. Council, any questions?
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
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June 14,2022
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Perreault: Thank you for your presentation. Did -- this is impressive. So, you had
mentioned that you didn't see any other improvements that the applicant was suggesting
to Waltman other than widening it. Were there are specific things that you had in mind
that you would like to see there?
Manning: Well, I mean -- I'm going to go back up to this. I mean really this kind of needs
to be only a right hand turn, because -- you can see where I have my truck parked there
to turn like into that insurance and if you look backwards here you can see that you are
blocking anything trying to go to the left-hand turn and that's really -- that's really causing
a dangerous situation. So, you are only going to be able to get out from the right hand
here and, then, yeah, they can widen it through here, but I mean with 13,000 trips on --
for retail, I just don't think that they can sustain it and I -- I think once they put this in there
is no way I'm going to be able to get out of here without going through like the Corporate
interchange. I would also encourage you to bring in ACHD on the timing, because I don't
think they can actually develop it until that bridge is done, so I'm not exactly sure why they
are trying to rush this through and saying that they can get services needed to Meridian
faster. Do I answer your question?
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: Yes, it did. Thank you. I really appreciate the feedback.
Manning: All right. Thanks.
Simison: Council, any the additional questions? All right. Thank you very much.
Johnson: Mr. Mayor, next is William Kissinger.
Simison: Good evening.
Kissinger: Good evening, Mr., Mayor, Council, staff and fellow community members. I'm
William Kissinger. 420 Waltman Lane, Meridian. I have occupied that property located
at 420 Waltman Lane for the past 17 years. However, this property and the farmhouse
located there has been there since 1918, making it over 104 years old. Now, it's probably
one of the older houses still left standing in Meridian. If it sounds like I'm proud of that, I
am. I appreciate each of your commitment toward the future of Meridian and do not envy
your task of diligently reviewing an ever growing list of requests. I appreciate your doing
your very best due diligence on this one, an extremely important one, and as many others
have put it, a very gateway to our downtown area. I'm not sure what I might be able to
say in my allotted three minutes that may sway your opinion in one way or another from
the hours of compelling testimony that the applicant and others has already presented,
but I do know that if I say nothing I would probably live to regret it. So, at the risk of
seeming redundant, if you have never had the pleasure of traveling down Waltman Lane
I would encourage you to do so. It's just that. A lane. It's not a road. It's not a street. It's
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not an arterial or a collector. It's a lane. Now, envision over 10,000 vehicles a day
traveling on this thoroughfare and adding to the already congested intersection at the
end. Just because you pay so-called experts for a traffic study doesn't mean it's
automatically a good idea. It sounds like this Council is justifiably concerned about traffic.
Any road improvements suggested by this project, as well as the Tanner Creek project,
fall short, if not completely fail to address this issue, collectively or individually. The
proposed secondary left turn as we have talked about on the northbound Meridian Road
was reportedly denied by ACHD. That was confirmed tonight. As well as the fact that
putting a center left turn lane down Waltman does very little toward addressing the
tremendous increase in traffic volume. I think we all agree with that. From what I see the
pedestrian walkway proposed by Hawkins Development only goes part way down
Waltman ending at their property line. As you know, community development should be
about community type service, including connectivity for such things as bikes and
pedestrians, both of which may be in all -- all in our futures given the current price of gas.
Allow me to clarify one thing that Mr. Mayor may have said that was regarding the open
space to the north of the proposed park, the one acre park. To my knowledge that is --
that grayed area is private property and not part of this project. This property should be
developed, but deserves a purposeful plan worthy of the location that is being developed
or proposed for. The city planner is right. Waltman is the ideal location for community
serving uses. I will wrap up. There are multiple reasons this project, as well as the Tanner
Creek project, are not the right fit for this location. That said I would encourage this
Council to recognize the recommendations of your very experienced planning staff and
deny this applicant on the basis of not fulfilling the comprehensive plan towards a true
mixed community use. Thank you.
Simison: Thank you. And, yes, you were putting at my -- my point, because that piece
was private property, not part of it, which is why I think they put that piece down below to
help --
Kissinger: And the buffer further up to the north.
Simison: Yes. Okay. Council, any questions?
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: I don't have a question. I just want to say thank you for coming. We do take
these public hearings very seriously and so your comments don't go unnoticed. So, thank
you.
Kissinger: I wish I would have paid attention in FFA to parliamentary procedure.
Johnson: Mr. Mayor, next is Matt Schultz.
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June 14,2022
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Schultz: Good evening, Mayor and Council. Matt Schultz. 4914 South Colusa, Meridian.
As a Meridian resident I'm excited to see something happen on this -- this property. Been
driving by for the last 22 years. I know when we started Tanner Creek five years ago we
always said some day the property east of the Ten Mile Drain will be commercial and we
are not the commercial property, even though that got approved 12, 13 years ago for
some commercial. Ironically with the same anchor that wants to move and flip across the
-- the -- the Ten Mile Drain now. So, essentially, what Tanner Creek was asking for was
to move that commercial site plan over here and let us be the -- the residential transition,
if you will, going west into the existing medium density. The only reason we are not here
in front of you with them -- hate to be the spoiler of the party, but ACHD said, hey, your
traffic study is four years old that you did back in 2017. Go update your traffic counts and
resubmit. Well, updating traffic counts to do to the new study took a couple months and,
then, they are at about five, six months right now in review. We just got approval of the
traffic study itself yesterday to be able to submit to you and when that is submitted to you
the application gets transmitted to ACHD and that's when they generate a formal staff
report at that -- at that juncture. So, whether you approve it tonight or in a few months I
do think it's worthy of approval that -- that commercial they -- they able to bring in this --
what was an ITD parcel that -- that got auctioned off with the Ten Mile interchange redo.
That's the one they are asking to annex. The rest of it was already annexed and so it's -
- it was a surplus ITD property that they would like to bring in and kind of bring it into the
fold with the rest of their stuff. There is some site plan questions. There is some other
issues you guys are going to work through, but in general I think the -- the -- the C-G is
the proper zone. I personally think they should be prohibited from multi-family. That's
just -- that's just me -- under a DA and -- and that we are providing that and we haven't
officially done that. I know you may not approve it, but for the record we did -- staff did --
did recommend approval twice. P&Z recommended approval twice. The first time we
came through the comp plan was going through and you said, hey, come back later when
the comp plans done. That was the reason we didn't want to talk about it. And, then, we
came back, it was COVID summer of 2020 that I was up on Zoom out of McCall. You
said, hey, Matt, a lot of things we like about Tanner Creek, but until we know for sure that
there is commercial coming in next door, we don't want to let it go, essentially. That's
how -- that's what I took from it. I know it's been portrayed a little bit differently, but I took
from it you didn't want to let all that commercial go and what if they bring in a bunch of
residential and -- so, again, it's this issue of-- of submitting jointly, which we attempted to
do and -- and Hawkins was afraid of missing the boat by six months and it seems like
they won't miss it by six months potentially. I'm not saying you should continue it, but we
will probably be in front of you, if all goes well, by late August, early September is what
it's looking like. So, we support them as a neighbor and traffic's a big deal. No matter
what Corporate gets extended with our first phase or their first phase no matter what.
Something has to happen to that intersection. I'm surprise ACHD shot down the -- the
extra left-hand turn lane. That blows my mind, because something needs to happen with
that intersection. If Tanner Creek doesn't blow it up, the commercial blows it up, whether
it be community or regional. The commercial something has to happen there. It doesn't
really -- it's -- it's splitting hairs I think on -- on uses when it relates to traffic, so -- so, with
that that's just my thoughts. Thank you.
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Simison: Thank you, Matt. Council, questions?
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: Such irony in asking you for updating your traffic study when I just saw one
last week in an ACHD report that had traffic counts from 2018, but, you know, whatever.
So, my question, though, is do you anticipate when you send in the -- the traffic study with
updated numbers that they could potentially, then, agree to an additional left turn lane or
is there a right of way issue that's -- that's preventing it? I mean is it possible they come
back, and say, yeah, okay, Tanner Creek, plus -- you know, plus the commercial
application, now we are -- I mean has that conversation been had with ACHD?
Schultz: Yeah, Mayor, Council Woman Perreault, I am under the impression that our
traffic study and their traffic study both considered each other in their background counts
and so what you have is the full story and the traffic studies at that intersection today.
That -- that is what's in there. We -- we -- we made sure we -- we coordinated, we
integrated. I know that our residential is like 75 percent less traffic generation than
commercial. Commercial is, obviously, the elephant in the room when it -- when it comes
to traffic generation. But there is going to be some heavy infrastructure done and I'm
shocked that there is not something that needs to be done more at that -- that Main
intersection for the commercial, so --
Simison: Council, any additional questions? Thank you, Matt.
Johnson: Mr. Mayor, the last sign up is Mike Swenson.
Simison: Good evening.
Swenson: Yeah. Mike Swenson. 815 West Waltman. So, we are right on the very end.
We have lived there 27 years and our -- our house was built in '53, so we are not the
oldest house, but we are pretty old. The -- you know, I am actually going to say something
for the development. There was actually something before Tanner Creek that was
proposed. We have been watching these things for a long time and they drug their feet
so long that the commercial developer pulled out and the thing folded. But the big issue
is -- is just even the traffic on Meridian Road. I mean it's -- it's a zoo there, you know. You
-- you know. I mean you make a left. I mean you are lucky if you get through, you know,
that -- you almost have to honk your horn and pray for -- you know. You know, one
accident in that -- in that area is, you know, going to be catastrophic. I mean we are -- we
are going to be backed up until next Tuesday that -- it will be ugly. And you know -- you
know, unless we come up with a better plan, you know, in terms of traffic and getting it
moving, you know, I -- I don't think we can go forward. Thanks.
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Simison: Thank you. Council, any questions? Okay. Thank you very much. Is there
anybody else that would like to provide testimony on this item in the room? If you would
like to come forward and state your name and address for the record, please.
J.Lorcher: I'm Joey Lorcher and I live at 740 Waltman Lane. Not a lot I can say that
hasn't already been said by my family and other people in our community, but one thing
would like to point out that Ethan's presentation was a lot of -- well, they should do this as
pertaining to Tanner Creek's plan. Well, we are going to build, you know, sidewalks and
whatnot to this point and they should do this. There is no -- they haven't presented a
contract or a written agreement to us between the two developers saying this is how it's
going to be, you know, black and white. We are going to build it to here and, then, we are
going to build it the other way. I would like to see that, because it would just, you know,
be more comprehensive and also we were presented with a map from Tanner Creek after
this last time we went through this for a road going -- connecting the two developments,
not a pedestrian pathway, but a road going through one to the other and I don't know if
that got last -- they ditched that plan or what, but just a little wishy washy on what they
are saying they are going to do and what they are going to do. I would like to see an
actual plan of what they are both going to do, so that's all.
Simison: Thank you. Council, any questions? Thank you. Is there anybody else that
would like to provide testimony at this time? Council, would you like to ask ACHD any
questions?
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor, yes, I would.
Simison: Okay. Kristy. Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Kristy, if-- if you could weigh in. A couple of things have
popped up I would like input on and one, of course, is -- is the no second left turn lane off
of Meridian Road, the thinking behind that, and also the -- the Corporate extension. The
time frame for that, for the bridge and -- and the extension of that roadway, what -- what
are the time frames that ACHD is looking at for that extension?
Inselman: Mayor Simison, Council Member Hoaglun, this is Kristy from ACHD, for those
who don't know. For Corporate Lane, that's a collector roadway, so that's typically done
through development. We don't have a timeline specifically set for when that road is going
to be extended. It's through development. So, if it's part of the requirement of this
developer to extend that roadway it would be done with this development. We do have
the right of way already through that property, so there is kind of like a little strip of land
that you can kind of see between the two properties. So, we already have right of way
up to the Ten Mile Creek and, then, obviously, there would have to be coordination with
the irrigation district to get that bridge across to make that connection when that roadway
is built. It would be done at the same time. We wouldn't want a road to go up and just
stub to the creek and not go anywhere. We would require that connection and that would
necessitate coordination. With regards to the left turn lane, I'm not sure I can provide a
lot of enlightenment on that this evening. There was a -- a report that was already in the
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packet for you that was written by Paige in our office and I did reach out to her and --
because this is kind of an annexation and rezone we typically don't get into really detail
as to what we would require of a development application. So, when we saw a
development application they would look at that a little closer. She did have in here that
-- the no left turn -- no additional left turn lane there at that intersection. She just said it
wasn't feasible. There is not enough existing right of way and unique intersection
configuration. But I think that -- I mean, obviously, we would look closer when we saw a
development application. I think another gentleman brought up that -- that first driveway
access and her brief said that that would be restricted to right-in, right-out, so you wouldn't
be able to turn left into that first driveway access from Waltman, it would be a right-in,
right-out only.
Hoaglun: Thank you, Kristy. I do have a follow up, Mayor.
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: And, Kristy, I'm just -- out of curiosity, the state highway coming from Kuna to
Meridian at -- at what point does that -- is that ACHD jurisdiction for that intersection or is
that ITD or how -- how is that particular intersection managed?
Inselman: Let me take a look. I apologize. It may take a minute or two, because when
I'm switching back and forth to my very detailed map on my remote desktop it slows down
my internet, so it might take me a minute to get that answer. I don't know where our right
of way line ends and theirs begin, so I will -- give me just a few minutes and I will pull that
up.
Hoaglun: Yeah. Mr. Mayor, it's -- it's one of those things where you have jurisdiction lines
and --and not sure where that--where that comes together and who is --who is in charge
of what and -- or if there is -- like we do with the adjoining communities is if there is
coordination on some things like that. So, just kind of curious about that.
Inselman: So, jumping over to my right of way map, that's under our jurisdiction.
Hoaglun: Okay. Thank you, Kristy. Thank you, Mayor.
Inselman: You are welcome. And there is just one left turn lane there today. It's not --
there is no striping for a second. There is that landscape median that's there. So, there
is not two currently.
Hoaglun: Okay. Thank you.
Inselman: But I -- I don't -- I don't know what that would mean. That would -- other staff
would need to evaluate the reasons why.
Simison: Council, any additional questions for Kristy? Okay. Seeing no additional
questions, Kristy, you are good for now. Council, would you like to take a quick break
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before you have the applicant come up and close? Okay. We are going to go ahead and
take a ten minute break. We will reconvene at 8:10.
(Recess: 7:58 p.m. to 8:10 p.m.)
Simison: All right. Council, we will go ahead and come on back and I will go ahead and
invite the -- well, I will do one more call for anybody who may have shown up during that
recess to provide testimony. I don't see anybody new. So, I will invite the applicant to
come forward for any final remarks. State your name and address and be recognized for
up to ten minutes.
Mansfield: Mr. Mayor, my name is Ethan Mansfield. Hawkins Company. 855 West Broad
Street Boise, Idaho. And thanks for -- thanks again for having me. Appreciate the
discussion on this one. I don't have a ton to add. I would like to point out that ACHD has
accepted the traffic study. Some of the testimony sounded like that wasn't clear. I just
want to make that clear. On June 3rd we got an e-mail -- it comes in e-mail form and I
clarified that with Paige at ACHD. So, there is just an e-mail that says we have accepted
your traffic study and here is what we will expect of the development or here is what we
are kind of looking at and, again, there is no formal staff report as Kristy noted, it's just
the e-mail, so -- so, what -- what we are talking about is an e-mail from ACHD, no formal
assessment. I will note that we are open to the installation of a northbound left turn if
there is space. We would work with ACHD on that if that's something that moves the
needle and -- and a corresponding receiving lane on -- on Waltman. So, I want to point
that out. I would like to kind of remind everybody, once again, that the north half of this
site is already zoned general commercial. You know, we can move forward with retail
one. We -- what we would like to do is incorporate the entire center into one cohesive
development. We have office users, as you asked Mayor Simison. We have office users
lined up. They want to do it. We can't move forward with them until we have entitlements.
So, that's the challenge that every time we push the entitlements farther down the road
the -- the vision gets murkier and murkier for tenants looking to open office space and
office space is becoming increasingly more tenuous and we would like to nail some folks
down before they make different decisions. And, then, finally, I think it's our perspective
that -- you know -- and I said this in the presentation that, you know, this might be a little
bit tough -- tough corner from a transportation perspective. It's a piece of vacant land
right now. We think that rather than limit the number of trips in and out of that land, why
don't we increase the infrastructure. Why don't we enhance the infrastructure to support
the geographic nature of this. You know, I -- I think that there is kind of two options. One
is to limit the land use. The other is to expand the transportation network and I think the
city as a whole would be better served and, you know, I have lived in the valley my whole
life and it's changed a whole lot and I -- I just think we would be really well served to allow
us to help with the transportation infrastructure, install critical pieces of transportation in
exchange for this -- this development. I think that's all I have got. I'm happy to answer
any questions.
Simison: Thank you. Council, questions, comments?
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Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Ethan, yeah, I -- I don't disagree with you. We worked awfully hard -- or others,
Council and the Mayor's office, at one time to get ITD to give up this land that wasn't being
used really very productively and like to see it be used for good purposes. But, you know,
these two properties are joined at the hip pretty much and I just wanted to get your
thoughts on -- we heard Matt talk about late August, early September coming in with
Tanner Creek. Is that a possibility from your perspective of -- of coming back at that time
and we can hear the two proposals, but -- because they are joined at the hip, because I
have to say, you know, under the MUC guidelines or what you are requesting for MU
regional, it -- it doesn't cut it, you know. So, by our own rules we can't go there. So, your
thoughts, please, on coming in with Tanner Creek back -- when Tanner Creek comes in.
Mansfield: Yeah. Absolutely. Mr. Mayor, Council Member Hoaglun, this -- this is a great
question. I think, you know, if I were to rank my preferences, obviously, an approval would
be most welcome. A continuance -- sure. We -- we can work -- work with that. It's not
preferred and, then, obviously, we would not like a denial. That's kind of where we are
looking. Another option -- would the Council be -- what -- what is the Council's thought
on a commercial designation? I can't remember if it was Council Member Bernt or -- or
Borton that asked the question why not commercial and we are completely open to
commercial. We feel that this proposal complies with commercial. We --we would accept
that right now. It -- it -- but we don't want to leave Tanner Creek out to dry and I'm
wondering like can we move past this, you know, understanding that mixed use has to be
like a jurisdictional line in the sand. This area has -- you know, like mixed use in this
region has to contain three mixes of uses and this use and this region has to contain three
uses and can we kind of understand that this area here can be commercial and this area
here can be residential and achieve the same --the area has mixed use and it's the same
project. So, I'm curious if we can -- as a -- as a community kind of think about it like that.
I -- I guess that would be my thought and I understand the value of the comp plan and I
think we all understand that the comp plan is a -- is a valuable tool. Extremely valuable.
I was a planner at the city of Boise. We lived and died by the comp plan, second only to
the zoning code.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Mansfield: That's my thought.
Simison: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Yeah. Ethan. Yeah, the comp plan we do try to follow it, but there are times
where we find that, you know, it needs tweaking. What we thought would happen isn't
happening or didn't happen like we thought and -- and so sometimes those -- you know.
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And that's something -- you know, I'm not necessarily opposed to considering, but I think
looking at legal counsel Mr. Nary to do that C-G that would -- would take a process that
we are not set up to do tonight; is that correct? So, the -- the fact is even if we were open
to that as a Council -- I don't know where others are on that -- you would have to go back
through the process, come through, so our timing frame would be, oh, maybe late August,
early September -- not.
Mansfield: Mr. Mayor -- Mayor, Council Member Hoaglun, you make an excellent point.
I was under the impression that legal counsel had -- had mentioned the change in use. If
we changed a commercial -- the commercial -- the specific use being -- moving to
residential instead of keeping the site plan exactly the same, because that would really
impact -- certainly have some impact on the surrounding community. There would be
fewer trips generated, because we would be swapping out commercial for residential, but
ACHD would still deserve another look, maybe a shortened look, but another look. With
this proposal we wouldn't be proposing anything different, other than calling it commercial.
But I may have misunderstood the legal counsel's direction.
Hoaglun: And -- and Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Just to follow up, Ethan. One of the things that -- by hearing both of them at
the same time, traffic impacts -- we have heard from the -- the neighbors, you know, there
is going to be an impact and will the roads be adequate to handle what would be coming
with both developments and I think that really needs to be understood before we -- we
make any -- any decision. So, it's -- I -- you know, what -- what you have proposed, what
you brought forth I can get excited about. Yes, you know, there is roads, there is access,
there is those types of things, but in terms of what Meridian needs with some commercial
space, with some office space, there is some good things about that, so -- but it's just all
these other issues that we have to nail down and make it all work together and -- and I
don't know if it will, but by coming back at the same time I -- I think that would at least give
us a good chance of reviewing everything and making a really informed decision. But
that's my opinion. Other Council Members might think differently, but that's -- that's how
I look at it.
Mansfield: Mr. Mayor, Council Member Hoaglun, I would just like to ask a quick question
and that question would be if we did come back what elements of the combined plan that
is -- other than what's in front of you, which is a combined site plan and two TIS's, one
that takes into account -- each one taking into account the other, what additional would
you need to see to be comfortable in the approval of both together versus one now and
one later? Is it simply a syntax issue with the mixed use regional or are there very specific
things that we can do, you know, if, in fact, this is continued what --what might we be able
to do with Tanner Creek more than what we have shown now to -- to help you all feel
comfortable with the development?
Perreault: Mr. -- Mr. Mayor, may I address this?
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Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: It's -- it's not a wording issue, it's not a comprehensive plan issue, it's not a
zoning issue, it's that since the application -- applications were not presented together or
as one application, we can't -- we can't take the other application into account at all in
favor of your application and vice-versa. That's not what we are -- and -- and -- and staff
will have to -- have to clarify this, but we -- we have talked about floating, you know, map
changes and I don't know whether that would qualify in this situation or not, but that's why
I was asking about whether you were going to join your applications, not just present them
at the same time, because we -- we can't technically take that into account at all, because
it has -- it has its own -- you know, it has its own requirements within its own zoning. It
has -- I mean they are just -- they are two totally separate applications in our minds and
we -- we -- and we have to look at them that way. Our planners have to look at them that
way. So, really, the only -- you are kind of asking us to guarantee that we can take both
into consideration at the same time. The only way we can really do that is if they are in
the same application. So, as Councilman Hoaglun mentioned, as it stands right now,
since it doesn't meet the mixed use regional, I don't -- I don't want to vote denial, because
I think that this is a -- you know, a great proposal, but I wouldn't be able to say that this
meets the mixed use regional on its own and so that being said, you -- you mentioned
something along the lines of could we switch this to commercial. Are you talking about
actually changing the comp plan -- doing a comp plan amendment to the commercial --
comprehensive plan category or with --with a C-G zoning or are you talking about--that's
-- that's kind of where I'm -- because there is an actual comprehensive category with the
C-G zoning and we actually haven't had a conversation about that tonight, but I think
that's what Councilman Bernt was referring to. Why don't you keep -- why don't you
actually, you know, suggest the commercial and not a mixed use regional?
Mansfield: Mr. Mayor, Council Member Perreault, I was, in fact, when I was responding
to Council Member Hoaglun, referring to the commercial land use designation. We are
requesting a C-G zoning designation regardless of whether we are going for MUR or
commercial land use designation and so the thought being, yes, there is actually an e-
mail in my inbox from -- from Sonya recommending that we do not switch to commercial.
That was kind of the initial -- we -- we floated it and it was not recommended, because
they still wouldn't be able to support the entire project, because Matt's project wouldn't
have the mixed use component. So, we would be fine to go to commercial. If you wanted
to approve us with commercial tonight we would absolutely accept that and the only thing
that would change in the legal description is mixed use regional to commercial. The
project would remain exactly the same and so that's why I was asking if it was a wording
issue and -- and I guess that's what I'm -- I'm asking tonight is -- is that is -- is that on the
table? Because I believe it -- based on my understanding the comprehensive plan we do
actually comply with the commercial land use designation.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
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Strader: Personally I am in the mixed use category at this time, but I can't speak for
anybody else. There -- there is a piece of information I'm going to need, even if this is
pushed into September, which is not just for ACHD to accept the two different traffic
impact studies, but I'm looking for the feedback from ACHD on the whole picture. So, that
-- that -- that's important to me. Hopefully that helps.
Simison: And if I could piggyback on that then. I would love for ACHD to, quite frankly,
come and present on why two left-hand turn lanes, for example, are not plausible,
possible, or is it just in the current right-of-way configuration or long term. I know that
may be a lot of work for them to -- I don't want them to overanalyze it, but I would like to
say, then, to tell us why you can, can't, sort of shouldn't long term, short term, forever and,
you know, ultimately I'm -- my hope is that Linder Road will reduce some of the traffic in
this area that makes some of these turning movements okay, but for how long, you know,
for -- for what purpose. You know, there -- there is other things in play that could help,
but, you know, we -- I go up Meridian Road and turn left into the Winco, you know, off of
Meridian Road and you only see eight cars stacked there and you are turning into a major
commercial area, so the other lane could probably -- I think it's right to ten is on the other
side. I don't know which one will generate more long term from that standpoint. So, a
little bit more from ACHD's perspective about the impacts. We have invested a lot of
money between the MDC, the city, ACHD in the road network configuration, the property
and we want to see this move forward, we just don't want to be -- to turn into a traffic jam
for everybody all the time and especially from 4:30 to 6:00 each day -- we are going to
7:00? Okay. 7:00. You know, from that standpoint. So, more -- and, Kristy, I know you
are on there and this may be a little bit out of whack, but we would love to see a little bit
more from ACHD's participation on the conversation ultimately.
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: There we go. Am I on? Am I off? Okay. Good. So, I -- what I -- what I think
would be helpful for me -- the mixed use community designation and the -- the
descriptions in the staff report are spot on. I see. These -- they are adjacent uses, they
are not mixed uses, and that's a big distinction and I think the staff report and our staff did
an exceptional job in describing what in their opinion they thought the application lacked
with regards to mixed use and integration and a lot of those elements, if it's -- it's maybe
more a redesign than -- than you were thinking might be necessary. This and Tanner
Creek, quite frankly. And I would think it gets remanded -- this would get remanded to
P&Z to marry up with Tanner Creek, not just remanded to us about a future date and let
P&Z see both applications together, see how you can address the mixed use community.
Our staff report talks about the -- kind of the letter and the intent of the mixed use
community designation and what it's trying to do. I think there is a huge opportunity in
this location to apply those elements in both projects, let P&Z vet that. I agree with the
Mayor, it would be great to hear ACHD's detailed analysis on the access and, then, quite
frankly, yours. This single left-hand turn, if ACHD says it will be single left forever, I don't
-- I just cannot get my head around how this project can be successful with a regional
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draw with a single left with no stacking. You said it, you -- this property's been entitled for
commercial. This could have been built ten years ago and if somebody could have done
it they would have done it and I think -- and I have heard this for at least ten years, that is
a fatal flaw and challenge for this property. That's not your fault; right? But -- but I think
that's just the elephant in the room is how do you -- even if you get entitled how can you
be successful with lack of access coming north realistically. I just don't get it. So, the
mixed use integration I think -- again, our staff and the staff report really answers a lot of
your questions and how this -- there is opportunities for it to be better and if it gets
remanded back, marries with Tanner, gets vetted at P&Z, you know, vetted it before and
raised some of these concerns. Just trying to be helpful. I think you deserve that. To
see what might give it a chance to be successful.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Just -- I wanted to piggyback on Councilman Borton's comment about, you
know, going back through the process, because I think if-- if you want to come back with
that full C-G for this, that would have to go back through the process and my -- my
comments might better be so far off, you know, because if -- if that's what you want --
because we just can't change that on the fly. That -- that might be the -- be the route to
go is -- is if you want to redo it and say, okay, if we are going to come in with Tanner
Creek, they are going to do this and it -- you know, staff can relook at it. I mean we have
got our future land use map for that area. I don't know, Sonya, you know that process
better than I do, but--what that would look like and if it's that-- how that-- how that works.
Mansfield: Mr. Mayor, can I ask a clarifying question really quick? Mr. Mayor, Council
Member Hoaglun, you -- you said come back with the full C-G zone or -- because we do
actually -- that is what we are proposing is the full C-G. We are not proposing the
commercial land use at this time. Sorry. I just want to make sure I understand.
Hoaglun: For--this is for your southern parcel that would be annexed. That--that portion
sounds like -- because you got the entitlement already.
Mansfield: Right.
Hoaglun: Northern portion.
Mansfield: And we are asking for C-G zoning on the southern portion as well. That's part
of our current application.
Hoaglun: Okay. That's right. Not -- well, MU -- yeah. It's MUR right now.
Mansfield: Correct. Not the commercial land --
Hoaglun: Okay.
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Mansfield: The language got --
Hoaglun: I got it. I got it.
Mansfield: It's very confusing. Sorry.
Hoaglun: No, I --
Mansfield: I just wanted to make sure I was on the same page and understanding with
you.
Hoaglun: Yeah. I was looking at Commission recommendation, denial based on the
belief -- the request not consistent with general mixed use development guidelines, the
existing MUC guidelines, or the proposed MUR guidelines, which is our--our requirement
-- what our future land use is -- is requiring. So, I guess that's why I'm looking at you,
Sonya, and was trying to figure out if they are at C-G, does that have to go through that
whole process or is that a future land use map amendment that we would have to go
through? What is the exercise that somebody -- somebody has to jump through hoops
here somewhere, I'm just not sure who it is.
Allen: Mr. Mayor, Councilman Hoaglun, Council, the issue is is that the current land use
designation, mixed use community, their development plan is not consistent with. Mr.
Borton asked earlier what the square footage of that other -- that office building. It's
80,000 square feet. What I -- what I also didn't answer, Mr. Borton, was that the other
commercial retail building is also 80,000 square feet. That is over the threshold of the
square footage allowed in the MUC designation, unless there is a vertically integrated use
or it's a grocery store. A grocery store is limited to 60,000 square feet. Everything else,
unless it's vertically integrated, is limited to 30,000 square feet. So, when you raise that
-- you can have C-G zoning either way, with mixed use community or mixed use regional
it's the threshold of development that is allowed in each of those designations that is the
key factor here. So, if you go up to the mixed use regional, then, keep in mind that with
that you are increasing the intensity of the use and the transportation issues in this area
and if-- if--what I --what I told the applicant is his -- his development is more commercial
in nature and that probably would be more fitting designation for this area, but if just this
property is designated commercial, that would leave the other mixed use community
portion on its own with a much smaller area and it -- it would be impossible to develop
consistent with the mixed use community designation. I told the applicant if they wish to
do that to change to commercial from mixed use community, that the adjacent property
to the west should also come in with the comp plan map amendment, so that that property
isn't left with mixed use community. So, either -- I would recommend with the current
development plan for Tanner Creek probably a medium density residential and a medium
high density residential designation to allow for the single family and the multi-family use.
So -- so, there is some different variant -- variations that you -- we could get there on, but
the -- the -- the big factor is if -- if you go above the mixed use community to either
commercial or mixed use regional, you are looking at significant traffic impacts to this area
with the type of development that could be allowed.
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Mansfield: Mr. Mayor, I have a quick clarifying question for Sonya as we move forward,
if, in fact, we do continue. I just want to make sure I understand. The comp plan, I believe,
mentions a 30,000 square foot footprint versus total building square footage. I don't
believe the office building itself is out of compliance with the mixed use community land
use designation. I think the reason we are asking for regional is solely because of the
80,500 square foot big box store. Can you -- can you clarify that for me?
Allen: Mr. Mayor, Council, the applicant is correct. I just verified that. So, I misspoke
earlier on the retail building.
Mansfield: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Thanks, Sonya. And I didn't mean to put you on the
spot. I just wanted to make sure that we were -- yeah, we are not coming forward and
proposing something crazy. Make sure we are -- we all know what's going on.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: So, I don't know if the applicant wants to answer this or maybe Sonya as well.
Why can't you come in with a comp plan amendment for commercial and just -- not a
mixed use at all and Tanner Creek come in with a comp plan amendment for residential
and -- and not -- I mean that just seems so much cleaner to me. Does it have to do with
the timing? Because if they already have an application in -- or if they -- they are going
to have an application for their project in, but even if they don't have an application for
their -- for their plat or -- or whatever, they could also come with a -- could have -- no.
One more day. With a comp plan amendment as well and it just seems like it would be
so much cleaner to go that route than trying to tie these two together.
Mansfield: Mr. Mayor, Council Member Perreault, that is certainly an option that -- I -- I
think we --we would totally consider I think. Unfortunately, you know, what I'm --what I'm
hearing from all this is -- so -- so, the unfortunate piece is that would have to be applied
for tomorrow by Matt and I think what I'm hearing here is that it seems to be working --
like both of the plans on their own seem to be working out --we support it -- it sounds like
most of Council supported Matt's project last time, but the reason they didn't support it
was because there wasn't a commercial component, which is now here and so now that
the commercial component's here I'm hearing that we are on the right track generally with
it and so it -- it -- it appears that there is like -- this is fine, this is fine, this is only fine with
this, that's only fine with that. So, I guess -- but I guess it -- it appears to be -- because
it's going to be the same project whether or not the comprehensive plan says commercial
or mixed use regional and Matt's going to come in with the same project whether it says
-- whether the underlying comp plan designation is mixed use community or medium
density residential, I don't understand why they -- I guess I -- as a -- as a planner myself
-- a trained planner myself I don't understand why the comp plan is -- is held up as the --
the -- the thing we -- we need to pay attention to when they -- when we are suggesting
the same exact land uses, land use patterns, and circulation -- everything. It's just
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commercial versus mixed use regional. But I'm totally -- yeah, I'm open to feedback and
listening.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: You know, it's not uncommon for us when we get in these patterns of, you know,
if you do this or if we do that or, you know, we might be amenable to it if you did this and
we wish you did that or we don't like that park there, we want to tot lot there, we want,
you know, to get rid of the skyscraper here, but we want a dog park over -- it always turns
into a complete mess on the dais one hundred percent of the time and I'm not going to
tell you how I would hope that you would do your project, because, guess what, I'm not a
planner, you are and Hawkins Companies have been doing this for how many decades,
you know. So, I'm not going to tell you what you should and shouldn't do and -- because
you guys are the smart guys, I have full faith that you are going to put something together,
along with your neighbor, that's going to make sense. I hope that it's creative. I hope that
it's thoughtful and I hope that you guys do a good job at it. For me right now the reason
why I am not supportive of your project as it stands is because of the impact that it's going
to provide to this area. It's not ready. It's not even close to being ready and you said
something earlier about murkiness. My -- my -- what -- what keeps me awake at night
with these type of projects is not dotting all the I's and crossing all the T's and making it
even more murkier, not only for this geographic area, but, you know -- or this -- this one
project, but -- but the entire intersection. It's going to be -- for me to be comfortable with
approving your project or Matt's project or any other project in this area, the transportation
aspect of it has to be fixed. We need details and I know this is a unique ask from ACHD,
but we cannot approve this -- at least I can't -- I can't come to the table with even coming
close to an approval until I know that the transportation and access to this works. For me
that's it. I trust you. I trust Matt. You guys are going to come together and make a great
project whatever that is. Whatever. I don't care. I just want the transportation of this fixed
before you come back. I hope I was clear.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: I -- and we haven't closed the public hearing, so I -- I would like to hear from
Matt on his thoughts on this. What we are talking about being joined at the hip. Maybe
he has a whole different perspective on this. Doesn't want to touch them with a ten foot
pole. I doubt it. But we will find out.
Schultz: Well, Matt Schultz again. I'm a little murky, so -- after listening to you guys up
here debating it. The nuances of-- of the comp plan versus the zoning and how it comes
-- and if you remember when I got up here I said I just hope he gets this commercial and
I get the residential and it's --the whole thing's considered a mixed use. We have the Ten
Mile Creek going through the middle of us, so it's -- we are going to have connections.
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We are going to have vehicular connection in the middle, plus Waltman, and so I -- but I
don't think there is any way for you guys to get the big picture and I said it before, I'm
shocked that there is no major improvement to that intersection recommended by ACHD
and that needs to -- we need some clarity on that and -- and -- and, B, I just think they
need to come back with us. We are not -- I don't think we need to do a comp plan
amendment. Get creative with it, I think we can, hopefully, just continue them tonight and
we would work together to make sure we do come back. We are --we are both a hundred
percent on the same page and we have all these details worked out on -- on the traffic,
so there is no murkiness, because that's not good. Murkiness is not good. So, that's --
we heard you.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Schultz: Thanks.
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Follow up, Matt. I mean if we continue this -- I mean we can pick a date later
in August, not knowing where you will be in the process --
Schultz: That would be close enough I think.
Hoaglun: We can continue --
Schultz: We will let him speak, but --
Hoaglun: I mean it's their project, but we could continue theirs and -- and marry -- marry
the two up for a future--future time when that comes through, if that's the Council's desire,
so --
Mansfield: Mr. Mayor, Council Member Hoaglun, we are willing to accept a continuance.
I think that seems like the right move here.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, as I spoke earlier, my concern is, again, we
don't really have a plan here. We have a zone and we have a comp plan amendment
that may or may not marry up to what the ultimate request is and we have never noticed
that to these neighbors. These neighbors came to talk about a regional shopping center
and an office park and now we are talking about adding another office building, instead
of another -- another commercial store and I don't know what their opinion of that is,
because no one's ever told them that until tonight. So, that's what I'm concerned with on
whether or not we should continue this or remand it, because it's never been looked at by
P&Z. It has not been evaluated by planning. I guess I'm concerned about from a noticing
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standpoint and our record to simply pivot here at this meeting and, then, just keep moving
forward in two months.
Mansfield: Mr. Mayor, Mr. Nary, I would like to just state that we have no intention of
changing what we originally came here and proposed tonight, which is a comprehensive
plan map amendment to mixed use regional proposing the site plan that was presented
today. I did present some options. Those are apparent -- those are now off the table.
Just want to be clear. That we are -- we are looking for an approval of an annexation, a
rezone, and a comprehensive plan map amendment, all of which are noted very clearly
in the notice and I -- I think Sonya would agree with me and -- what are your thoughts,
Sonya? Just want to make sure we are all on the same page here.
Allen: The current development plan is not consistent with the mixed use regional
designation. So, if that's what you are planning to stick with, I -- I believe that you need
to make some changes to your concept plan to make it more consistent with the mixed
use regional designation as -- as outlined in the staff report.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: Thank you. Just wanted to ask a clarifying question. So, if -- if this southern
property is annexed would the applicant not need to bring -- I assume they are going to
do some sort of plat and DA and a concept plan that would be attached to the DA. Is that
not going to be a future part of this process that --where we would have further discussion
regarding the concept plan or does that have to be figured out now?
Allen: Mr. Mayor, Council Woman Perreault, Council, annexation is part of this
application, so the development agreement is what is under your purview right now. The
northern portion is already annexed. There is no development agreement on that and
they are not required to come back in with the subdivision plat. They do have existing
parcels out there that they can reconfigure if they wish. They could plat it if they want to,
but I don't believe that that's their intent. So, this is your bite right here.
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: So, that was one of the reasons I suggested remanding it to P&Z, as opposed to
continuing it. It doesn't slow it down for you at all, quite frankly. It wouldn't get to us until
Tanner Creek was here. They got to go through P&Z anyway, so that allows that to be
vetted and to give I guess input on it, if there is no change in the plan -- I mean I agree
with staff, I -- I'm not -- I will just tell you really supportive at all. In addition to the
transportation problems, because it -- it is in essence is saying your comp plan is wrong
and I get it, but if it's saying the mixed use components of comp plan, whether it's
community or regional, all of that is wrong and as a city we should do something just
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totally different. That's, in essence, what your application is and -- and -- which
appreciate, but I'm not so certain our comp plan in this area is wrong with those mixed
use components. So, whether you change this -- this site plan, concept plan, whether
Tanner Creek does anything different than what you have done today, totally up to you,
but from my perspective there would be value at that remand married up with P&Z to have
the mixed use components -- I think community, but at least regional addressed and that's
-- that would require some change in -- in what you presented, in my opinion. Either way
it goes to P&Z first. Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: Murmur about remand. The question for Bill is because we don't have a date yet
when P&Z would be, we almost need to pick a date, knowing that at that date we would
remand it to P&Z. It seems clumsy, but we are kind of stuck.
Nary: So, yeah, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Borton, no, we
have -- we have done this before. We have -- remand it back to P&Z at this point. They
will have to, then, work with planning to find the date of when it would best, because it will
have to be noticed and, again, if there is going to be some change from mixed use
regional to mixed use something else or whatever else they want to do and -- and if you
don't mind, Mr. Mayor, maybe I could add at least for the applicant's perspective -- when
-- when the city approved this new comp plan in 2019, because you were asking sort of
in the vein of comp plan is a guide, ordinances is the code, and the code is the ordinance
you have to follow and that is true. But this City Council has made a commitment to our
community that we are going to be slowed down on changing those comp plan
designations and not simply change them because somebody asked to. So, it is
something that this Council has committed to and that's why we added that provision into
our UDC that allows it only twice a year, rather than anytime they asked. So, there is
other factors at play and that's what I think -- why we are here and I didn't know if you
knew that, just because the way you asked that question. I kind of got a sense from your
planning side why you were asking that. But we would simply direct a remand. They
would work with the Clerk and the Planning Department to set a new date and they would
have to renotice it.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: I just want to make sure I'm understanding Councilman Borton's
recommendation. So, Planning and Zoning heard this already. I assume that this similar
presentation was made to them as what we saw tonight, is that -- is that not the case? Is
there something -- are you recommending that they take whatever changes they are
going to make to Planning and Zoning, plus like ACHD's information and, then, have P&Z
review it or what -- what changes is P&Z going to review from what we have already seen
-- or what we have seen this evening. I apologize, I wasn't tracking with that.
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Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: That's up to the applicant. Ultimately what, if anything, they change to try and
address the mixed use components -- maybe nothing and you may choose to go to P&Z,
which had recommended to us in its current form denial and they very well -- if you bring
the exact same application, without being, you know, next to Tanner Creek, we might get
the same answer, so if there is a change or perhaps no change, but seeing Tanner Creek
with it gives it comfort it didn't already have, P&Z would, then, provide some context for
all -- for us and our decision making process. But if you do make some changes and try
and incorporate some of the mixed use components, I think all the better and P&Z might
agree with that as well. Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: I will make a motion to move this forward, but before I do when we get to this
clumsy clunky part of local government it's just trying to get this thing right, which I --
delays stink. They really do. I totally get it. Matt knows it; right? You have been in the
middle of these things. But we are trying to get this right and this is a critical -- you know,
in the heart of the city. We have been struggling with this for a while. So, hopefully, this
process gets us there. I'm going to make a motion that we continue H-2021-0099 --
excuse me -- remand it. Remand this application --
Simison: Need to close the public hearing --
Borton: Do we keep it open?
Simison: -- on a remand?
Nary: Mr. Mayor, actually you close the public hearing, because it's going to renotice it
as well and start a new public hearing. So, that's fine.
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: I will amend that motion to close the public hearing on H-2021-0099.
Bernt: Second.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. Is there any
discussion?
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
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Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: Just a question about this. We haven't done a lot of remanding since I have
been on Council, so I -- I don't know that the -- I -- I didn't hear from the applicant that
they are necessarily planning on changing this -- changing their concept plan to comply
with mixed use. What I have been hearing is that they -- they want us to call what is
essentially commercial mixed use and we are not able to do that, so it -- I just am trying
to still wrap my head around the purpose of the remand if -- I haven't heard from the
applicant that they are intending on making any changes to their concept plan to fit the
mixed use regional. It's the fact that they really just need to not use the mixed use regional
or come in with a -- with a joint application with Tanner. So, I still would like some more
clarification on the -- have the applicant said, hey, yeah, we are definitely going to go
ahead and change our concept plan and we will make it fit with mixed use regional no
matter what happens with Tanner, then, I would understand a remand to Planning and
Zoning. So, I apologize if I'm just not getting it and everybody else is, but would like more
clarification on that.
Simison: Councilman Borton, would that be something you would make clear in your
motion on the remand?
Borton: Sure. Well, I think the motion is to close the public --
Simison: Right. The motion is there. That's why I'm -- I don't want to -- we would need
to --
Borton: I will do that next.
Simison: Okay. Is there further comments on this -- on the -- to close the public hearing?
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: I apologize. I -- I somehow heard that his motion was to remand, so my
apologies.
Simison: He will get there.
Perreault: I wanted to make sure I had an opportunity to say something before it got
completely voted on.
Simison: Okay. All those in favor of closing the public hearing say aye. Opposed nay?
The ayes have it and the public hearing is closed.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
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Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. So, part of the reasoning that the remand exists is there
is a possibility that if there are no changes, just like what we are presented with today,
that it could get a vote for denial. In lieu of a denial it's an opportunity to -- at the very
least address additional information forACHD, both from the developer's perspective and
from the highway district's perspective on these fatal -- these difficult transportation
challenges that -- that we -- we are trying to wrestle with. But also the -- whether or not
you believe it's really necessary to make any mixed use components -- elements that both
P&Z and our planning staff and our comp plan require of this area or whether you want
to continue as you have understandably -- you have explained it. To continue as you
have, not make any changes and come back with what you have already presented today.
That's a decision you have got to make. So, does that help kind of answer that? Okay.
So, with that context, I move that we remand H-2021-0099 back to the Planning and
Zoning Department for the reasons described in today's public hearing, for the applicant
to work with our Planning staff and City Clerk to coordinate the next public hearing, the
noticing requirements et cetera, so --
Hoaglun: Second the motion.
Simison: I have a motion and a second. Discussion? Hearing none, Clerk will call the
roll.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Cavener, yea; Bernt, yea; Perreault, yea; Hoaglun, yea; Strader,
yea.
Simison: All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES.
7. Public Hearing for Future Land Use Map Ada County Area of City
Impact Cleanup (H-2021-0098) by City of Meridian Planning Division
A. Request: Comprehensive Plan Map Amendment to clean up the map
to better align with the adopted Ada County Area of City Impact
(AOCI) boundary AND removing Civic designations and areas that
will be serviced by other jurisdictions (Boise).
Simison: Thank you. And work on this and, hopefully, come back with something for
everyone. Okay. Next item up is Item 7, public hearing for future land use map county
area of city impact cleanup, H-2021-0098. Open this public hearing with staff comments
from Mr. McClure once he's ready.
Hoaglun: Yeah. Mr. Mayor, just while they are getting things ready, I just thought maybe
for each Council meeting we could have a theme for the night and I think tonight's theme
is murky.
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Bernt: Yeah. I -- you know -- Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: I was a hair passionate. I have been doing this for five years. You guys shouldn't
be that surprised. Murky. Hashtag murky.
McClure: Mr. Mayor, Members of Council, apologies for that. I'm here to present an
application for a comprehensive plan future land use map amendment. Haven't had
enough of those tonight. There are no associated entitlements with this application. The
genesis for this application goes back to December of 2019 and is focused on the area
of city impact boundary. After the new comprehensive plan was submitted Ada county
staff led some coordination efforts to define the boundaries between most of the cities.
The Board of County Commissioners ultimately adopted our new comprehensive plan in
2021 with some minor tweaks to the area of city impact boundaries. This amendment
generally aligns with those boundary changes. There is also an additional AOCI change
at the request of ACHD. They are developing a project on Franklin Road east of Eagle.
That project falls in both Meridian and Boise boundaries. They have decided to move
forward in Boise and they have coordinated that both with Ada county and Boise. As
stated, a key element to this amendment is continued coordination with other agencies.
It's also intended to better reflect our service planning, to improve transparency, to reduce
errors and to maintain the plan as a living document. Broadly, the changes proposed with
application are either map changes, either to the area of city impact and the future land
use designations or they are simply graphic changes. The map changes are broadly
shown by the purple circles on the map here. The graphic changes include a new special
planning area designation previously just for the Ten Mile Plan and some other land use
symbology and general land use tweaks -- legend tweaks. The Field Sub Area Plan,
which was previously adopted, is now shown and delineated on the future land use map
and I will briefly walk through the specific changes in the next few slides. Area one is on
the left. The only change is to remove the highlighted area from the area of city impact.
This change is already adopted by Ada County, having previously been coordinated with
Star and Meridian. Meridian does not plan to service this area and there is no access to
it from within Meridian. Area two is on the right. This is really exceptionally minor. I just
wanted to daylight it, because it's something I like to try to get normally. It's just a request
for consistency. Generally we like land use changes to either follow the center line of
roads preferably and if that's not occurring to consistently do whatever else has been
occurring, which in this area it was following parcel lines. It -- it just -- it's a little wonky
and it's hard to see here, but normally that would be a scrivener's error I would just fix,
but since I'm doing these I figured I would throw it up there. Like to have consistency
would be the short. Area three on the left here is the ACHD change I previously
mentioned. Area four is a little bit of a mess. There are no impacts to properties within
Meridian. The properties have previously been annexed, zoned, and are entitled and the
future land use designations are being stretched or shrunk to align with prior decisions.
Areas being removed are already zoned in Boise or planned to be serviced by Boise.
Area five on the left is another area of city impact cleanup to remove property that has
already been annexed into Boise. If you are familiar with the old barn on Fairview east of
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The Village, that's -- that's basically this. Boise's annexed that. The changes on the right
in Area Six -- both of these have civic designations, which is for agencies or quasi-public
agencies. However, both of these properties are privately owned. The one on the right
is Old City Hall, which is now a wonderful building and the one on the left is a bit of a
mystery, but it's a single family home that is R-4 zoned and surrounded by medium density
residential. So far as I can tell it's been that way for decades. Anyways, both of them
were civic and they shouldn't be. Area Seven here, these changes are cleaned up -- are
cleanup to reflect previous entitlements and uses. The one on Franklin includes a
commercial office development in Meridian and a county commercial use wedged
between industrial and the cemetery. The proposed change is from medium high density
residential to commercial to reflect the commercial uses already entitled. The other
change is from commercial to civic to reflect property owned by the educational
institutions. Those are the map changes and area of city impact changes. So, just briefly
go over some graphical changes. This is a new symbology for the future language map
being proposed. We have been using these internally and for some unofficial maps for a
while now. There was an effort here to balance how -- how busy the map appears with
how readable it is. Previously it wasn't very readable. Many of the colors were too similar
without other distinguishing elements. However, we didn't want to just code every single
-- every symbol with a bunch of patterns and major eye hurt. So, hopefully, we have
achieved some balance here that makes the map a little bit more readable, while
remaining clear. We have had positive comments from staff that have various color
deficiencies on this new symbology. As previously mentioned, the other graphic changes
to note is the special planning areas. The red dashed line here used to be just the Ten
Mile specific area plan on the legend. Now we are proposing it be special planning areas.
Sub area plans. You can see the Ten Mile Plan would still have it, but now we have added
to The Fields area in the -- in the northwest corner of the city. On March 4 staff had all
properties falling under the -- the changes -- the AOCI and future land use designation
changes. On April 21st the Planning and Zoning Commission heard this application and
recommended it forward to Council without -- for approval and without any changes.
There was no public testimony at the hearing. On June 8th there was a letter sent to
Council by a citizen from Alpine Point I believe with some concerns changes northwest of
Eagle on Ustick, Area Four. While appreciate their interest, time and diligence, the
comments do not change the side boards that define the context per staff's
recommendation. Previous decisions in this area I believe set the stage and this is
intended simply to reflect them. I have another exhibit I can go through if you would like
to talk about it, but, otherwise, would stand for questions and request that you approve
H-2021-0098.
Simison: Thank you, Mr. McClure. Council, questions for staff?
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Thanks a lot, Brian. I'm really struggling with area four. It just doesn't make
sense to me. I have read through it. I think he just offered to walk through that in some
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more detail. If you could do that I would really appreciate it. And, then, I guess a follow-
up question is understanding that the county is kind of driving the bus, what if we
disagreed on Area Four? What would happen? Thank you.
McClure: Mr. Mayor, Councilor, the map here describes some of the nuance behind the
Area Four changes. The green hatch on the right going top left to bottom right is the city
of Boise. The blue hatch going bottom left to top right is Meridian city limits. The area in
the middle is the county enclave, which is part of Boise's area of city impact. Looking at
the large blue dashed line, the extent of the future land use designations in the 2019
comprehensive plan, we have already deviated from it quite a bit. Part of the Delano
parcel south of the enclave there has -- was previously split in Meridian and Boise.
Council has already acted on that. Council has also acted on the Fast Eddy's project in
the lower right area. The property that has the store on it was actually part of Boise's
area of city impact. They negotiate -- he negotiated that with both cities. The property in
the middle is part of an agreement that goes way back with the city and what is now -- I'm
going to lose their name here. Used to be United Water then New Suez now Veolia -- I
probably butchered that. But, basically, we have agreed to not service -- service that with
water and, then, in the top northern corner where you have the future collector going
through behind the office park and adjacent to the subdivision in Meridian, all of that's
actually already been annexed by Boise as well. It looks like there is a lot of landscaping
back there, but most of that's owned by the county and will be a future roadway. So, there
is plenty of opportunity I guess to disagree with the county and certainly your purview, but
most of the decisions here have actually already been made there. The only real one
that's on the table would be the one in the middle. I would just say that we try very hard
to coordinate with our partner agencies. We do have an agreement to basically not
provide services here and the current area of city impact lines split the property anyways,
so, hopefully, that answered your question, but most of this has already basically been
decided.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council?
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Oh. Councilman Cavener. Sorry.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor. Brian, I guess speaking -- I -- and I guess I kind of share some of
Council Member Strader's concerns about Area Four more than anything. So, that -- that
piece of land there in the middle that's -- that doesn't have any type of an effect on it, has
the -- the property owner indicated a preference in terms of -- if annexation were to occur
would they prefer it to be in Boise? Would they prefer it to be in Meridian? Have we had
that -- any communication with them and what has been their response?
McClure: Mr. Mayor, Councilor, I sent them a postcard notification. They have reached
-- not reached out to me. I couldn't say whether they have coordinated with Ada county
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or city of Boise. I would have to believe they were notified by those agencies when that
change occurred on their side, but I don't know that for sure.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: I hope I'm understanding this correctly, but that section that Councilman
Cavener just mentioned, Ada county approved area of impact, is that -- am I
understanding that correctly? Is that AOCI?
McClure: Mr. Mayor, Councilor, yes. So, the AOCI stands for Area of City Impact. The
gray and white dashed line there is the Ada county approved one, which reflects Boise's
boundaries and land use designations. The blue one is the one that Meridian -- it's our
planning area that we approved with the 2019 comprehensive plan that currently splits
that property down the middle.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor, a follow up?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: So, the owner of that property could apply for a use change to Ada county and
Ada county could take them through that process?
McClure: Mr. Mayor, Councilor, they are currently zoned in the county, so anything they
wanted to do -- well, there is some nuance here that maybe Caleb wants to touch on.
Ada county requires anyone touching our -- our -- our boundaries to -- to talk to us. But
if we didn't -- they didn't like what we said, they could eventually choose to pursue
something in the county. However, they are part of Boise's area of an impact and Boise
has a future lines designation over their entire property.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor, one more question.
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: So, we had a lot of conversation about that section of Centrepoint Way going
through their property with the Delano application. If they were to apply for, you know,
use in the county, does the county have to honor the desire for Centrepoint to go through
that? I mean are they -- I assume they are subject to the master street plan that ACHD
has, but I mean can that significantly change where Centrepoint is anticipated to go if
that's the route they were to take? I know that's not part of what we are considering here
this evening, but I just am curious.
Hood: Mr. Mayor, Council Woman Perreault, so Brian kind of mentioned it, but our area
of city -- area of city impact agreement with Ada county, they would not process an
application for real development on their property. They could rebuild a home. They
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could even do an addition. But if they wanted to develop their property they are
contiguous to Meridian city limits, they would not process a real development application,
they would push them -- right now they would push us to probably us and Boise, to one
or the other, because the property is split, but, no, that scenario could --would not happen,
because Ada county would not be the lead land use agency. The property has to be
annexed as the next step. I will just -- if you don't mind, Mr. Mayor, just to piggyback a
little bit on Mr. Cavener's question. I have not talked to them either, but back when we
did the comp plan and Delano, as Council Woman Perreault just mentioned, that property
owner was part at the table. I never directly talked to them, but they were engaged, they
were part of that and that's my understanding, too, is they understand -- I don't know if
they had a preference to be in Boise or Meridian, but they are okay with being in Boise.
Again, I have not heard that from their mouth, but that's what -- that's -- I'm under the
impression and understanding that -- that that is the case and, again, to Brian's point, all
the utility providers have had those same conversations about that and -- and that is really
the plan at this point.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Is there a technical reason that we can't provide utility services to this parcel?
Hood: So, Mr. Mayor, we -- we don't have anybody from Public Works here. That -- that
was part of the concern, though. I don't remember exactly what it is. I don't think there
is any way to loop -- so, water isn't our issue; right? That's Veolia -- Veolia -- however
you say their new Suez name. Their service area. So, water really isn't our concern or
city of Boise, because it's contracted either way with them. Sewer, though, was a concern
with -- with depth of that elevation and getting it back to service. So, again, Public Works
had some level of concern. Could you do it? Sure. Throw enough money at it you can
-- you can make it go uphill. But that was part of the conversation. Boise was -- Boise is
better positioned to service that property than Meridian.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Mr. Hood, I think that goes back to the -- you know, we -- we have long worked
well with Boise on these -- on these parcels to make these determinations. Very few
people have a strong desire for one city or the other. It is really about serviceability.
Nary: And Mr. Mayor --
Simison: Mr. Nary.
Nary: -- members of the Council, my recollection when we did that land swap previously
for the prior application, that was one of Suez's asks at the time, because it is already in
their service area, because it was originally in Boise's area of impact. So, that's why they
wanted to keep what they have had there and so that's -- that was our agreement with
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them, because we have cooperative agreements with Suez, Veolia on where service will
be done by the city and where the service will be done by Suez. So, I think that was
Public Works compromise, that this parcel was not problematic to them to not serve.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Yeah. That -- that's starting to make more sense to me in terms of the rationale
of why Area Four is being -- you know, kind of coming out this way then. So, that makes
more sense. And, then, I guess my only remaining concern would just be similar to
Council Woman Perreault, just making sure that -- you know, that our Centrepoint Way
connector ultimately comes through, but it sounds like ACHD's master street map will
reflect that, so just confirming that. You know, the city of Boise works with ACHD the
same exact way that we do, so there is no chance of somehow the city of Boise having a
different vision and that's not getting that critical road connection.
Hood: Mr. Mayor, I -- I can address that, although I won't guarantee that something crazy
couldn't happen at the city of Boise. They will review an application -- at the staff level,
though, we are on the same page. We have got both ends of Centrepoint and they
understand that that is the plan and -- but, again, it's subject to public hearing. But to
your point, Council Woman, same master street map, same ACHD, that is certainly the
plan and there is an expectation that any development app -- when a development
application is submitted on that property, the two points of Centrepoint will -- will connect.
McClure: Mr. Mayor, I would just note that the dashed pink line being shown on the map
bisecting that property is the master street map line.
Strader: Got it.
McClure: Thank you.
Strader: It sounds like we have done everything we can from a communication
perspective, so that it will all come out the way we need it to be. Thank you.
Simison: Council, any additional questions for staff?
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: I don't have any questions. I just want to say thank you for these kinds of --
these kinds of applications. They are the super boring part of what you guys get to do,
but they -- but they help us in a huge way and they help keep us on track and helps the
public be clear in what we are doing and so just really appreciate the time and effort you
guys have put into this.
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Simison: All right. This is a public hearing. Mr. Clerk, do we have anyone signed up to
provide testimony on this item this evening?
Johnson: Mr. Mayor, we did not.
Simison: Okay. We have no one who signed up in advance. Nobody online. But one
person in the audience and he's waiving. So, with that, Council, what's your pleasure?
Hoaglun: Well, Mr. Mayor, will this come back I think with the actual action item?
McClure: Mr. -- Mr. Mayor, this would come back with a resolution. We are looking for
your approval tonight on --
Simison: And close --
Hoaglun: I will close the public hearing. Mr. Mayor, I move we close the public hearing
on H-2021-0098.
Cavener: Second.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. All those in favor
signify by saying aye. Opposed nay? The ayes have it. The public hearing is closed.
MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES.
Hoaglun: I'm sorry, let me go back to my original question. That was -- we are going to
-- you are going to have an action item coming back to us or do you want us to take action
by --
Hood: So, Mr. Mayor, yes and yes. So, if you can approve this tonight and we will prepare
a resolution probably two weeks or so, that will also be on your consent agenda and we
will ask you to take action on it as well.
Hoaglun: Okay. So, Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: I move that we approve the future land use map Ada county area of city impact
cleanup H-2021-0098 as presented to us tonight by staff.
Cavener: Second.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to approve the Planning and Zoning
recommendations? Is there any discussion? If not, Clerk will call the roll.
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Roll call: Borton, yea; Cavener, yea; Bernt, yea; Perreault, yea; Hoaglun, yea; Strader,
yea.
Simison: All ayes. Motion carries and the item is agreed to.
MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES.
FUTURE MEETING TOPICS
Simison: Council, anything under future meeting topics?
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: I move we adjourn.
Simison: Motion to adjourn. All in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay? The ayes
have it. We are adjourned.
MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 9:19 P.M.
(AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
6 / 28 / 2022
MAYOR ROBERT E. SIMISON DATE APPROVED
ATTEST:
CHRIS JOHNSON - CITY CLERK