Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAbout2006 03-21 Pre Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting March 21, 2006 The Meridian City Pre-Council meeting was called to order at 6:00 P.M. on Tuesday, March 21,2006 by President Councilman Shaun Wardle. Members Present: Mayor Tammy de Weerd, Keith Bird, Shaun Wardle, Charlie Rountree and Joe Borton. Staff Present: Bill Nary, Steve Siddoway and Will Berg. Item 1. Roll-call Attendance: Roll call. X Shaun Wardle X Charlie Rountree X X Joe Borton X Keith Bird Mayor Tammy de Weerd Item 2. Adoption of the Agenda: Bird: Mr. President. Wardle: Mr. Bird. Bird: I move we adopt the agenda as published. Rountree: Second. Wardle: It's been moved and seconded to adopt the agenda. All in favor. ALL AYES. MOTION CARRIED. Item 3. Discussion of Personnel Evaluation Forms: Nary: Thank you Mr. President, members of the Council. This item is continued from your last week's regular agenda. I did ask Josh from Aspire On to come too if he had any questions. What I had presented to you last week is the new evaluation form and process we wanted to use for employee evaluations. As I explained last week, obviously the form is pretty short. That was one of our marching orders in trying to put something better together than what previously existed. But, also we wanted to make, I guess, the system more complete. What we are looking at is, I guess, a more comprehensive system and a more aligned system with the training and the work that Aspire On has done with the city for the last couple of years. Part of that was the Position Accountability Definitions that we have been implementing this year with all employees from top Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting March 21, 2006 Page 2 of 15 to bottom. All the directors to every employee throughout the organization. That is one piece of the evaluation tool that we would use for employees' performance. This is the culmination of that on the other end of the employees' performance both in relation to the PAD's as well as their performance in relation to the behavioral models that we have created. If you have some questions, Josh has a handout to give everyone. If you have any questions about that I would be happy to answer them. We would like to begin the training of this program as soon as we can to kind of get them implemented. Like I said we are still working through the PAD's with the departments, but we want to get this implemented as well and so I guess I would stand for questions. Bird: Mr. President. Wardle: Mr. Bird. Bird: Seeing how I was the one that wanted to bring this forward because I thought we needed time to look it over, which I did. I have looked it over. While coming from the private industry never having to do any of this stuff, this is about 350 percent better than what we used to have, so I don't have any questions after reading through it and stuff. I just wanted to have the week to look at it and not be pushing something through without having a chance to look at it and have any questions. So, I have no problem. I think they are by far much better than what we have been using. Wardle: Mr. Rountree. Rountree: Mr. President, thank you. I really like the idea of formalizing the employees' self evaluation as long as everybody will understand what will happen with that. Typically, you're good and exemplary employees are pretty humble and know they do a good job and they rank themselves, at least in my informal use of this over the last ten years, usually less well than their supervisor will. In your not so exemplary employees always seem to rate themselves much higher than their supervisors rate them or precede them, so it can create that instance of conflict. I mean it just starts it off immediately. I have done my evaluation and I am great and I am good and you are telling me I am only satisfactory or needs improvement. So, it happens. But it is a great tool. I found it very useful. The only comment I have on it is that you have an employee signature block on the evaluation form and it's qualified to the extent that I sign this just in recognition that I have seen it and I have been talked to about it. There is an implication, though on the employees' part that if I don't sign it, it doesn't move forward. So, I think supervisors need to understand that the employee has a choice not to sign this time. All the supervisor has to do is sign it and indicate that the employee was given the opportunity and refused to sign. That happens typically when you do have a disciplinary issue or conflict. So, I guess just in the training if you make sure that the supervisors understand that Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting March 21,2006 Page 3 of 15 and that they don't have to brow beat the employee to sign anything if they - if they don't want to sign it, they don't have to. Nary: Mr. President, members of the Council you are 100 percent right on both counts and occasionally comes up and occasionally I have had to remind supervisors that the purpose of the line is to indicate to the employee that if they don't want to sign they don't have to sign it. It would be nice if they indicated that they chose not to sign. If they employee wants to do that or the supervisor does it, that is fine. But, you are absolutely right on your first comment, Councilman Rountree, it is a great tool to have a discussion. When there is a significant disparity between the supervisor's evaluation and the self-evaluation, that is a good reason to have us start having that discussion and that is really the purpose of all evaluations is to have that conversation over performance and how the expectations are being met or not being met and what can be done for improvement or what could be done to - on the other side I do try to emphasize with the departments that the purpose of the evaluations is not as a means to make employees feel worse about their performance, but ways to find avenues for them to improve. To challenge the good employees who maybe need a different kind of motivation or a different motivational tool to keep them interested, happy you know enjoying their job and using their talents to their best, but your comments are well taken and they are right on the money. I appreciate that. Wardle: Josh, did you want to comment on - yes, please come to the microphone. Grant: I was just going to reiterate some of what Bill said that that is one reason of the reasons the self-evaluations we purposely took out the actual evaluation part of it and the employees that if they want to comment they have to provide specific examples of where they performed in that area. Instead of saying I exemplified excellence in this area and therefore that might contrast - so I agree - we kind of took that into consideration when we revamped the self-evaluations for that purpose it is saying okay understanding the employees might be more apt to rate themselves higher than maybe the manager will. So, it is really focused around what are specific examples of where they actually feel like they did performance exemplary or if they did a good job. So, that is - kind of try to keep it objective instead of saying and forcing them to really specify. Wardle: Thank you. Council other --? Rountree: Do we need a motion to approve this or consensus that is the right way to go? What is the city's --? Nary: Mr. President, members of the Council you don't have to do a roll call vote, but a voice filed motion to approve that as part of the process since it is going to be basically carrying out through the policy manual as to how this is - our policy Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting March 21,2006 Page 4 of 15 manual requires that we do evaluations, so what you would be approving is this is a new format that we would be using, so I would prefer that if you approve it, you do it that way. Wardle: Mr. Nary, just a question. This is going to become our city-wide standard, correct? Nary: Yes. Borton: Mr. President. Wardle: Mr. Borton. Borton: Not having experienced the old evaluation form, I am impressed with this one, impressed with what it tries to accomplish to the extent that it is intended to improve the quality of service provided to the City of Meridian and it's residents is fantastic. Hopefully, it is used by managers and various levels to actually reward the good and weed out the bad. That is maybe kind of crass, but used that way to improve efficiency. It is a means to an end. So, hopefully it helps to accomplish that end. With that, I would move that we approve and accept and utilize the new performance evaluation forms. Rountree: Second. Wardle: It's been moved and seconded to approve and authorize employee evaluation forms. All in favor. ALL AYES. MOTION CARRIED. Item 4. Presentation for ACHD Capital Improvements Plan (CIP) with Gary Inselman: Wardle: I don't see Gary yet. Steve do we want to just take a minute? Maybe a quick recess? Council I would move - actually we are going to be in recess until we can find Gary. How is that? Rountree: So moved. Wardle: I don't know that I need a motion, but we are in recess. Thank you. RECESS AT 6:10 P.M. RECONVENE AT 6:14 P.M. Wardle: All right. I would like to welcome everyone back from our short recess and welcome Gary Inselman with the Ada County Highway District. Gary, I Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting March 21, 2006 Page 5 of 15 assume you were stuck in traffic. So, if you would like to kick us off on the issue of just that, the traffic in our Valley. De Weerd: We say that with great joy. Inselman: Mr. President, I foolishly forgot about the road closure on Meridian and had to go out of my way to get here. So, I apologize for being late. What we have handed out is the 11 x 17 map of our draft CIP projects for our update to the Capital Improvements Plan and the spreadsheets attached are the road projects in really fine print. I hope you have good eyes. The intersection projects are all on two pages. The memo is one that we actually prepared for the City of Boise's Council. Last month they had some questions about our methodology and I thought you may have the same questions, so I thought I would provide that to you. It goes into some detail about the steps that we have taken to get to where we are at and establishing our street and intersection capacity thresholds that helped us establish this list of projects. If you would like me to go into some of that I can. That is in section three in the memo or we could kind of cut to the chase and get to some of the questions that we had for you and we wanted some input and comment, whatever you prefer. Wardle: Council, do you want to talk methodology first or move directly to some input to ACHD? Bird: Move to input as far as I am concerned. Inselman: Okay, I appreciate that. If you read this memo at your leisure and have any questions, please let me know. I would be happy to answer any questions you might have. The main issues that we asked Steve to bring up to you and why we requested this time was if you look at our map of draft projects, you see we have several segments of seven lane roads this time around that were not shown last time and many of them do affect the City of Meridian. We have always planned seven lanes on Fairview from about Maple Grove Road to Meridian Road. Now we are including the mile west from Meridian to Linder on Cherry Lane. We also have segments of Franklin Road from Eagle to Milwaukee and Overland Road from Highway 69 to Maple Grove. So, we do know that that impacts the City of Meridian and will impact future development along those corridors and wanted to get some input from you as to your feelings on that. Obviously the need is there. We have a tremendous need for capacity east; west and the Fairview corridor just can't keep up. Even at seven lanes we are showing several miles of it at a level service "F" projected in the 20 years. Siddoway: Mr. President, Gary I did put up the map so if you want to point out those corridors and their end points so that you are looking at those seven lane areas, you can use that map to talk from. Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting March 21,2006 Page 6 of 15 Inselman: So what we are proposing there is the need projected and obviously when you drive sections of Overland and Franklin you note immediately that they're on only two lanes today, so we haven't even got them five yet and we are projected a need for seven. What we are proposing is we move forward with those five lane projects since we already had them programmed, many of them designed and one of them out to bid a few months ago and list a seven lane need for right-of-way only in this update to the CIP (inaudible) preservation so that over time as properties redevelop along those corridors we can preserve the right-of-way, get the building setback if they replace buildings, move the sidewalks and then move forward with the seven lane improvement over time. At least that is what we will propose for our commission. It would be hard to justify a seven lane construction project in 20 years when we haven't widened it to five yet. We are hoping to get more than 20 years out of our five lane roads. Is there is any comment or question on those issues? Wardle: Gary, one of the questions I have is that kind of methodology with Franklin from Eagle to Meridian is that it has been widened to five recently and you are trying to get 20 years out of that or is there not projected to have a need? Inselman: That particular segment didn't flag for the seven lanes. We had, I believe a segment west of Main that was just barely over, so we didn't propose listing that since it was just barely over the five lane capacity. We had the same thing happen on Overland, I believe between Meridian and Linder; it was just barely over the capacity for five, so we left it alone. Borton: Mr. President. Wardle: Mr. Borton. Borton: Gary, the portion of Cherry Lane just east of Ten Mile is this done presuming there is no Ten Mile Interchange and if not because the Cherry Lane is from seven lanes down to I think five - would that change with or without a Ten Mile Interchange? Inselman: No, our model runs assume the Ten Mile Interchange has been built or is in that scenario and the Linder overpass and Locust Grove overpass. Siddoway: Mr. President. Wardle: Mr. Siddoway. Siddoway: Gary, the roads that you are talking about, going ahead and building it five lanes, but preserving for seven would you just reiterate what those are because I just wonder - I believe you are trying to move forward with construction with seven lanes on Fairview. Is that correct? Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting March 21,2006 Page 7 of 15 Inselman: That is correct. We actually have two or three miles of Fairview on our five year plan to widen to seven and we would propose that we leave Fairview to Main in the program to widen to seven. It would be the Cherry Lane segment from Meridian to Linder and then the segments of Franklin and Overland that we would propose to put in as corridor preservation for a future seven lanes. De Weerd: Mr. President. Wardle: Madame Mayor. De Weerd: I guess, Gary as we talk at COMPASS and Blue Print for Good Growth and Communities in Motions and looking at preservation of corridors, McMillan is a little confusing to me. You have a couple of segments of five lanes and some of three lanes, what is the long term plan for that? Inselman: Madame Mayor, Mr. President, the long term plan for McMillan was to be five lanes from Locust Grove east, right now the segment between Five Mile and Maple Grove is not flagging for a five lane improvement. The segment west of Locust Grove is the North Meridian Plan, we had committed to maintaining that as a three lane road and so we were proposing to maintain that plan specifically because for two and half or three mile's worth, we have already had plats in place that we only preserved right-of-way for three lanes and with the canal along there, we had already taken all of it from the opposite side to go to five lanes would mean relocating the canal and the power lines or wiping out the landscape buffer on the other side. We feel we probably lost our opportunity there unless we wanted to do something drastic, which we do have Ustick in the plan from Eagle, I believe all the way out to Star Road for five lanes. The modeling does some interesting things on McMillan and Ustîck. It really loads up McMillan even though it dead ends at the county line and Ustick stays kind of light, so we think there is some issues with the COMPASS model there and we have proposed to maintain the North Meridian Plan for three lanes on McMillan and assign that traffic to Ustick. De Weerd: And on the seven lane roads, I am sorry, Mr. President a follow up. On the seven lane roads, you know I guess I know your staff and your Commission are probably sensitive to seven lane roads and what it does to a community splitting it up. Have you been able to look at different treatments that could help lesson the impact of the starkness of the seven lanes of pavement or are there any ideas of how to make it a little bit more compatible as it exists in the middle of the community? Inselman: Madame Mayor, Mr. President, we have not gotten that far. We are simply looking at needs right now and needs for the travel lanes and projects not to that detail yet. The one exception to that might be we have broached the subject of in the future when the principal arterials that would be expanded to Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting March 21,2006 Page 8 of 15 seven lanes exceed a level service "E" that we not propose nine lanes that we start looking at some access control and center medians, which may lend to some treatment in the medians in the middle of the road and such. We are not going to make that decision, this go around is just something that we are throwing out as we need to be thinking about it for the future. De Weerd: I guess just to throw out since you put it on the table, the center medians at least where you enter or exit one community and enter another to have some entry opportunities to help break up some of that pavement at or the mile marks and it may be at every mile mark to help break up that pavement and talking with the communities and seeing if there can be some partnership in sharing a maintenance, but certainly in looking at different treatments to help break up the massive pavement that will be going through the middle of our communities. Bird: Mr. President. Wardle: Mr. Bird. Bird: Gary, can you answer a stupid question? What kind of right-of-way in feet do we need for these different - like the three lane one? What kind - how much area do we need? Inselman: Mr. Bird our standard right-of-way for a three lane road is 70 feet. A five lane is 96 and a seven lane is 120. If you look at the intersection sheet you will see we have some very large intersections proposed. We have some legs with as many as nine lanes, many seven, eight lane legs on some of our larger intersections and at that still some of the intersections, I am still not sure of any of the particular ones in Meridian. Some of them still fail because you just can't get enough cars through them. The sheet I gave you for the McMillan, Under intersection is just an example of - we have 100 of these for the different area sections that we studied and it gives you an example of what they looked at, the existing condition, the no-build, build and then the needs and at the bottom right corner you see the level of service indication and the intersection volume capacity ratio and the lane group volume to capacity ratio, which is explained in the memo, what standard we were looking for. Rountree: Mr. President. Wardle: Mr. Rountree. Rountree: Gary, what financial constraints are there on this particular (inaudible)? It goes out to 23, so what expectations is it that this generates that are not going to be fulfilled? Meridian City Pre~Council Meeting March 21,2006 Page 9 of 15 Inselman: Mr. Rountree we haven't gotten that far yet. Our Accounting Department is preparing our revenue projections for this 20 year period, the 2007 to 2027 and we are currently in the midst of construction cost estimates and the right-of-way estimates. We hope to have a full draft document by the end of April for a public information meeting April 2ih that we scheduled. At that time, we should at least have the cost estimates done and know (inaudible) the proportional increase over the 2003 CIP. I am assuming it would be significant, not only because we are increasing projects tremendously, the construction costs and right-of-way costs have gone through the roof and I am anticipating that we probably won't be able to fund all of these and then we will have to discuss a process to prioritize which ones can stay in the plan because we do have to keep it financially constrained of what we can fund over the 20 year period. Rountree: Mr. President, what kind of criteria do you have 10 percent over programming, 20 percent because projects come and go over time? Inselman: I don't know the answer to that question. I might add normally the limiting factor is our general fund match to the project. Although, it could conceivably be so many projects, the costs so high that the fees have become unpalatable to the communities as well. Siddoway: Mr. President. Wardle: Mr. Siddoway. Siddoway: Two things I would like to talk about. The first is advance construction projects. We have several on the radar screen that have not been able to be considered because they are not in the current CIP. Examples of that are the developer that wished to build Pine from Eagle to Locust Grove. They were not able to do that with reimbursement through impact fees because that stretch of road is not in the currently adopted CIP. I just wanted to point out that all the projects that I know of that have interest in advance construct projects today are showing the CIP. The segment of Pine, they just mentioned is right in here. There also is interest looking at Overland - my pointer is not working very well - but down between Ten Mile and Linder as well as some intersections in North Meridian that wish to do advance construct projects and all of those are flagging for improvement in the new CIP and upon adoption of this plan would become eligible for consideration in one of those projects. De Weerd: Mr. President. Wardle: Madame Mayor. De Weerd: I also would have a question on Amity and Lake Hazel. I know that ACHD has been in discussion with the City of Nampa in regards to Amity and the improvements they are doing in making that an east, west connection. I Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting March 21, 2006 Page 10 of 15 understand they are doing round-a-bouts and I wondered what width they are making Amity and as well with Lake Hazel the movement of Kuna to the north very aggressively and what kind of growth impact that would have on that in the Communities in Motion plan that is the major transportation corridor as well. Could you comment on those two roads? Inselman: Sure, Madame Mayor. Amity Road as you can see it is flagging for a three lane improvement in our projections and we do have intersection improvements at Black Cat, Ten Mile and Linder. Our Traffic Department is proposing a study to look at doing round-a-bouts along that whole corridor west of Highway 69 to - we are going to look at that. We are encouraged by the demonstration project, so we are going to look at that. We are preserving right- of-way on Amity for a future five lane road even though this map shows that it is only fighting for three and we have been doing so even though it is not our current Capital Improvements Plan. We will do the same on Lake Hazel and have been as well. So, we understand those are going to be important east, west corridors and we will continue to preserve the right-of-way even though it isn't showing up on the plan for the five lanes now. De Weerd: Now, in those areas are you looking at extraordinary fees if development does come in to mitigate for road improvements that aren't on your CIP? Can you do that? Inselman: Madame Mayor yes and no. We have the authority to do that. It becomes a little problematic if it is a smaller piece meal development. If it was one large development that was requiring improvements that weren't in our plan or requiring them quicker than we could fund them in our plan then yes we have the authority to do that. Would we? I don't know. It is a case by case basis and it would depend on the scale of the development and the improvements it was requiring. De Weerd: And the last one in gets to pay for it all? Inselman: Hopefully not. Siddoway: Mr. President. Wardle: Mr. Siddoway. Siddoway: I mentioned two things. One was the advance construct projects. The second one that I would really like to have some discussion about is at the last joint meeting of the City Council and ACHD; we talked about the south Meridian area and the lack of improvements that are shown there. For example, Locust Grove south of the interstate, not even shown as three; Linder Road, south of the interstate also not flagging; Victory not flagging. Now one of the main reasons for that was that the CIP only looks at arterial roads. These have Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting March 21,2006 Page 11 of 15 been classified as collector roads up until now. ACHD did make a request to COMPASS to adopt a new functional class map ahead of Communities in Motion so that it could be considered in the development of the new CIP and the COMPASS Board just yesterday approved the new functional classification map that would make many, if not all of those roads at least minor arterial. So, can you Gary maybe talk about how that newly approved map as of yesterday will be considered in this CIP? I think one of the things that we are hoping to avoid is with our extension of sewer to that very area this summer we expect the same thing is going to happen down there that happened in the north Meridian the last three years. We don't want to be three years from now with that area built out and not have collected any impact fees for those needed road improvements. Inselman: Council, I wasn't aware that they approved the map yesterday. If directed by our Commission, we would stop and rerun that area and add the projects now that even if they were added that they would be some of the first to be dropped when the costs come in. We are as I say on Amity and Lake Hazel preserving right-of-way for five on those roads. We are doing the same on Linder, south of Overland. Locust Grove we have not, but Eagle Road and Highway 69 are both planned for five. Victory we have not and I am not sure we would even if, when it is classified as a minor arterial simply because of some of the constraints that we have in the fact that it doesn't go through to the west so with Overland to five to seven lanes and Amity and Lake Hazel, both at five and (inaudible) Victory would be all right at three. If in the future it did need to be widened, we would add it, but it does mean a lot of work just west of the Highway 69 with the canal and it is already being built out to three lanes with the development. Today at least for that first half mile we are getting full improvements for gutter and sidewalk with that constraint of canal there. Siddoway: Gary on roads like Locust Grove being preserved for at least the three; they are only two lanes right now, right? Inselman: Locust Grove as a collector is required being fully improved with curb, gutter and sidewalks, the three lane section. I think it is reclassified as a minor arterial, then we are down to only requiring sidewalk and minimal turn lane improvements and no widening or curb and gutter. It is an unfortunate consequence and some of the ones are going to remain at three lanes, get reclassified and we still don't get the full improvements and they have to wait. Siddoway: But you do start collecting impact fees at that point, right? Inselman: If they are in the Capital Improvements Plan, we would collect. Siddoway: If they are in, yes. Inselman: Impact fees, which as you know will go to pay for the full cost and the projects and the current five year plan, which will be Overland and Locust Grove Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting March 21,2006 Page 12 of 15 split corridor. The projects of the program now. in all four service areas. So, we are operating in a deficit Borton: Mr. President. Wardle: Mr. Borton. Borton: You know in light of each question, I got kind of a two part question on the CIP. Is there any subjective discretion in these types of improvements or is it solely based on objective traffic count, calculations and forecasts and if it is solely objective, if there is talk about rewriting numbers for the south side in light of the map changes, what type of time, expense and delay is generated to do something like that? Inselman: It is objective looking only the technical data (inaudible) objective part we inserted into this in trying to maintain the North Meridian Plan keeping McMillan at three lanes; Locust Grove and Meridian north of Ustick at three lanes and the intersection configurations that we had approved through that plan, although we did modify those slightly to add some right turn lanes for the numbers that showed the need and driving around town sometimes you would agree that sometimes those are pretty nice when there is a lot of right turn lane movement. To add an area and stop and rerun the numbers and look at adding projects, I am guessing it would be a two to three month delay, which you know if our Commission is in favor of that we will certainly do it. Our ordinance requires us to update the plan and our impact ordinance every three years. Our due date is next October with the impact fee ordinance. I believe there would be some leeway if we are so close. Wardle: Thank you. (inaudible)? Council, any additional questions for Gary on the Bird: I have none. Wardle: I believe that we have a joint meeting on the fourth of April at the Highway District, so certainly time to peruse the information and I assume Gary that if we have any questions, we can contact you directly? Siddoway: Mr. President, I just wanted some clarification for myself. I didn't hear any resistance to the idea of planning for the seven lane roads that are fighting in the CIP. That was one of the bigger outstanding questions as to whether we were willing to go down that road and if I understand correctly, yes we are. Bird: Well, I was going to say, yeah, you either do it or you don't. De Weerd: Oh, come on they want some activity on the west side of Ada County, right? Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting March 21, 2006 Page 13 of 15 Siddoway: This plan does farewell for the majority of Meridian. Looking at the last CIP and comparing it to this one, you will notice a dramatic difference for what is flagging and what didn't flag last time. North Meridian alone had very few projects. There was one road - Ustick went over to Meridian, but there wasn't much else. A couple of intersections and that is all. In this plan, every road in North Meridian and every intersection with Meridian is flagging for improvement so I just wanted to point that out. Wardle: Mr. Borton. Borton: Steve, would you recommend, suggest that the (inaudible) numbers be rerouted in light of the map change and arterial classification? Do you think that is necessary to at least request it of the Commission? Siddoway: Boy, my gut sure screams yes. I don't know if I am missing something and I may want to talk with Gary more. The only hesitancy is if the fact that the whole plan as is can't be funded then why add more? I guess that is one point. On the other hand if we don't get road improvements added in that southwest area of Meridian now the impact fees will not be collected for them over the next three or four years until the next CIP update is done. So, based on that, I think that it at least needs to be looked at. Inselman: If I might and I don't want to seem like I am disagreeing with Steve, but I would not want to look at it as if we are not collecting fees for those roads over the next three years because all of the fees were in a collect whether those roads were in or not are going to be spent long before we get around to widening this roads because they are going to pay for all your other projects. So, I wouldn't look at it as if you are losing fees, it is just that we have a mechanism in place to maintain to preserve the right-of-way to get the buildings and the sidewalks setback so that we don't have a big mess in five or ten years when those roads do start coming online. Siddoway: Mr. President and Gary. This is a question. If I understand correctly, if all the projects make it in and let's say some additional projects were added in that southwest area and they also made it in, the impact fee would then be based on the total cost on all of those and the impact fee would be higher with those new projects in than with them out, so you would stand to have more impact fees collected if the projects were in. The question is just whether that high of an impact fee is acceptable overall. De Weerd: Mr. President. Wardle: Madame Mayor. Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting March 21, 2006 Page 14 of 15 De Weerd: But I guess it does add up. You know, in North Meridian that was a comment we are still collecting impact fees, but we missed out perhaps $200 a building permit and when you look at the number of building permits that adds up to a substantial amount, if you look at the big picture. So, which could go towards - you know it may not go towards those road projects. I guess what I would ask is since those - you are not collecting impact fees per se for the road improvements in those areas, would then you not have a conflict if you were to ask for donated right-of-way? Inselman: No. De Weerd: You couldn't ask for donated right-of-way? Inselman: We can ask for them to give it if it's in the plan or not and we can buy it if it's in the plan or not, it is just that I have less budget from the general fund as from impact fees to buy the right-of-way. But, we will always ask. Bird: You can get a donation of anything at anytime, Tam. De Weerd: Well, I guess in other regions, they utilize the road improvements are not noted on the planning maps and development wants (inaudible) in spite of that then they have a responsibility to mitigate for the road improvements that would be needed and I guess that is more in line with the type of question I am asking. Would that be a possibility and I think those are some of the questions that we are hoping to get from the tool kit that the blue print was supposed to provide. Inselman: Right, yeah and we are looking at that as well - adequate facilities, ordinance and you know those other mechanics that we are going to tie in with the Blueprint for Good Growth. If those were in place absolutely, if they were not on the plan then they would be responsible to make the improvements that their development is required. Wardle: All right, thank you very much. Certainly, items for discussion. Thank you Gary. The Clerk and I are currently looking into sharing a helicopter maybe. De Weerd: Good that will get you off the road. Wardle: Council that brings us to the end of our scheduled agenda for our Pre- Council meeting. Bird: Move to close. Rountree: Second. Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting March 21, 2006 Page 15 of 15 Wardle: It's been moved and seconded to adjourn. All those in favor. ALL AYES. MOTION CARRIED. MEETING ADJOURNED AT 6:51 P.M. (TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS) APPROVED: 4-/!(/1l6 DATE APPROVED