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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMarch 2, 2006 P&Z Minutes Meridian Planning & Zoning March 2, 2006 Page 15 of 90 property line. And another addition is that all perimeter fencing along the school property line will be open vision. Did I capture everything? Newton-Huckabay: Did you want to make the June 6 -- Borup: Yeah. Mr. Chairman. That was what I -- was on that point 13. Was your motion to delete the whole -- that whole -- whole section? Zaremba: That's the way I noted it, but if that's not correct, what should it be? 1.2.13 you're talking about? Borup: Mr. Wilson, you say you're acceptable with the applicant's wording of that? Wilson: We were, with the one change that they had noted January 1 st, 2007, and -- Borup: Change it to June 1 st. Wilson: June 1 st, 2006. Zaremba: Okay. And, then, I'd change my motion that 1.2.13 accepts the applicant's wording. Okay. That means the date is January 6th -- or I mean the date is July 2006. Borup: June 1 st. Zaremba: June 1 st. What did I say? June 1 st, 2006. Okay. End of motion. Borup: Second. Rohm: It's been moved and seconded that we forward onto City Council recommending approval of AZ 05-058 and PP 05-060. All those in favor say aye. Opposed same sign? Motion carries. Thank you very much. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 6: Continued Public Hearing from February 16, 2006: AZ 05M067 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 6.9 acres from Ada County RUT to R-15 Medium-High Density Residential zone for Casa Meridiana by Insight Architects - 1777 Victory Road: Item 7: Continued Public Hearing from February 16, 2006: CUP 05M060 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a 32-unit multi-family development in a proposed R-15 Medium-High Density Residential District for Casa Meridiana by Insight Architects - 1777 Victory Road: Meridian Planning & Zoning March 2, 2006 Page 16 of 90 Rohm: At this time I'd like to open the continued Public Hearing from February 16, 2006, for AZ 05-067 and CUP 05-060. Both of these items relating to Casa Meridiana or something like that. In any case -- and start with the staff report. Guenther: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission. This is Casa Meridiana Subdivision -- it is not a subdivision. Casa Meridiana multi-family request. It's, actually, being requested as a 6.9 acre annexation. It is in the southeast corner of Victory and Locust Grove. We lost a piece of our presentation tonight. North road Victory. South -- north-south road is Locust Grove. This has a 32 unit single family residential attached product that would be with this. This is relative of a condominium plat, which we would see in the future. The second -- or the third request would be that these are private streets; they are designed as a 26-foot wide road section. As your staff report details, staff is in support of the multi-family type of units and the elevations detailed with this as shown. However, ACHD and staff do agree there is a lack of interconnectivity with this type of development, mainly because when the Locust Grove Overpass goes in, Locust Grove will most likely be operating at an arterial level of traffic, especially with the number of units that have yet to be developed in that north -- in that north-south corridor. It's currently listed as a collector road and staff does anticipate that that level of traffic to increase significantly and, therefore, the access point to Locust Grove is recommended to be eliminated and a stub street to the south be provided in a location to be determined by ACHD. ACHD staff report does recommend that the applicant provide an east-west connection, but if you look at the overall -- let me go back to the presentation. There are only four parcels in this location and what staff would anticipate would be that the parcel to the south would provide an east-west connection and, then, there would only be one other future connection to Victory Road in a north-south location. There is, as you can see, several water features proposed on this -- actually, you probably can't see. It's pretty small. There is a pond located in the northwest corner. A type of a stream. There are some existing wetland features. They are not designated wetlands and are not going to be required for mitigation on this site, but with those types of features you can anticipate high ground water. We do have -- this is another area that we have high ground water issues and staff is recommending that the Commission take those into consideration. Let me try and get back to where I'm going. I guess it does not go as far south as I had hoped. Just immediately south of Tuscany Lakes Subdivision is the Bellingham Park Subdivision that had significant issues with ground water as well and the Commission did institute some restrictions on building type due to the -- the lack of desirability of any type of ground water to be occurring in crawl spaces for future development. So, that would be a consideration that we would like the Public Works to make sure that the drainage of these types of roadways would be adequate. Provided the applicant is currently showing attached sidewalks on this site. This is proposed to change to a type of detached sidewalk with a drainage swale, obviously, to further help address the high ground water issues in this area. The applicant does have a very amenity laden product where there is a pool and clubhouse in the southwest corner. There would be parking provided for the pool and clubhouse. There is a pathway and many water features as amenities to this site. A walking path would connect to the east and are shown to be connecting to the south, but the north-south connection would be proposed as a public Meridian Planning & Zoning March 2, 2006 Page 17 of 90 street. Now, with the staff report the recommendation is for a redesign, but the staff is asking this Commission in order to give better guidance as how you would like to proceed. ACHD has made some special notices to the City of Meridian. Now, I will tell you that the ACHD staff members have pretty much -- two of them, their major staff members, have been -- have left ACHD and any type of recommendation and -- if you do table this, we will want ACHD to look at it and it may slow this project down significantly due to their lack of staff at ACHD to review these types of projects. The applicant does -- is showing gates on these sites. Gates are not allowed on private streets, which is a major concern, but is not -- it's not an option at this time. The applicant has indicated that they would be proposing or possibly be coming forward in front of this Commission with another request for a UDC text amendment. Staff is not going to comment on that, because we do not have anything at this time to comment on. That is up to the applicant to determine at a latter date. At this time staff has presented Findings for a -- consistent with denial, but we are recommending that this project be redesigned and reevaluated as to its -- being in the best interest of the City of Meridian for the overall site design. And with that I will stand for questions, but most likely your questions are for the applicant. Rohm: Thank you very much. Any questions of staff? Would the applicant like to come forward, please? Phillips: Mr. Chairman, Commissioners, I'm Russ Phillips with Insight Architects, 2238 Broadway Avenue, Boise, Idaho. We have got an exciting project here and we also have a short PowerPoint presentation that we'd like to refer to at this point. It should be under Casa Meridiana. And, please, don't get hung up on that name. It's -- we found it a little difficult to run out smoothly, so right now we'd like to keep it filed under that name, but we are reevaluating the name of the project. To start out with, while this comes up, the -- you know, I moved to the Treasure Valley when I was 22 and Meridian was a little blip on the radar screen and, obviously, it's grown a lot. We have all seen what's happened and part of what the community has been very good at picking up is that there is a chance of identity loss and through the Comprehensive Plan and many other -- many other positive things; I think Meridian is taking care of a lot of these issues and establishing its identity. One of the main things that we want to present tonight is a community -- a very small community, but a community that will respond to the diversity that is mentioned many times throughout the Comprehensive Plan. Diversity in lifestyles, residential living environment. This is a project that really has been thoughtfully looked out by Oaas Laney. Oaas Laney is a development -- a developer that is local based and has promoted projects that have been beneficial to communities in different ways and we have seen this community as a good example of how to create and bring to Meridian some diversity and in its residential environment. The next slide, please. This site was brought to us a year ago and it's taken a year of thoughtfulness to look at what type of development makes the most sense here. It's a site that can stand alone, we believe, with -- mainly because it's 6.9 acres. It has access on two collectors and it can stand alone in this type of configuration. The market originally was looked at to -- when we talk about diversity, is a -- was a market of say empty nesters, couples that have reached the point where they would like to -- the kids are out of the house, Meridian Planning & Zoning March 2, 2006 Page 18 of90 their homes have appreciated beyond their imagination, so that they could, then, move into a very high quality environment to live in and, then, in -- it would be secure in that it's a small environment and also the gates we viewed as really key in providing security, so that when the residents are gone on a trip that they maintain a sense of security over their homes, not only with neighbors, but also with traffic flow. As we went through many focus groups, we found that also dual income young professionals also are looking for this type of housing alternative, where, essentially, the homeowners association takes care of -- of the outdoor areas and, yet, you still have a home that's roughly 22, 23 hundred square feet. The amenities that Joe mentioned include -- we are working with -- due to the high ground water, trying to play with the water in some different areas. We have got a plan we have been working with, our civil engineers, and Meridian's public works as far as retaining the water. The ground water is somewhat artificial in that the irrigation is affecting that, so we have been monitoring that and we are trying to get some better analysis here during the next couple months. Other amenities is this is built on a -- kind of a Mediterranean style of homes, which the next slides will show. Hence, the name Casa, it will be a collection of casa homes. Some are detached homes, single family, as in this -- a couple of these. Three of these. Others are attached in pairs and some in threes. We are looking in keeping with a Tuscany or a -- not to be confused with the subdivision, like with a Mediterranean feel. The architecture, as you will see, reflects -- truly reflects this type of housing style with clay tile roofs, stucco, simplistic, but undulations in the building to create shadows in its massing. We are looking at the activity center besides the pool and courts and we are even looking at landscaping as far as types of olive trees that will grow in this climate. So, we are trying to look at this site all the way into the building. Each residential unit will be a condominium. It will be owned outright. We have a standard downstairs plan, which is 1,500 square feet, two bedroom, as planned upstairs, trying to look at custom -- from the customer point custom designs. We have got four different alternatives for upstairs, including a rec room option with baths, master bedroom suite, and a library and den type situation. A third bedroom. So, first time owners will have a variety of really a pallet to look at as far as kind of customizing their own home. We also have interior designs, one which will be traditional, kind of Old World in feel and the other will be a metro feel, to appeal to different age groups or lifestyles. In addition, outdoors, although we have got roughly 40 percent in open kind of common areas, each unit will have a patio which is trellised, you will have an outdoor kitchen with an outdoor fireplace and -- so that's another amenity there. The main concern -- there seems to be two concerns. One is the private streets. We did meet with ACHD in the very beginning and, then, again, during a tech review period and the initial -- the initial concept hasn't changed much and ACHD really was kind of -- they didn't have an issue at that time with private streets. They did bring up connectivity that that's something that Meridian has been looking at. In meeting with Meridian city planners, connectivity was discussed. We discussed vehicular connectivity and pedestrian connectivity. We opted to go with pedestrian connectivity to the south and to the east and not consider the vehicular connectivity. After reviewing the staff report and meeting with staff yesterday, if there truly is a desire on the city's part for vehicular connectivity to the south, then, we certainly would look at a redesign of this area in here. We certainly -- we've spent a year thoughtfully going through the project and we would like to do what we can to work ..~ Meridian Planning & Zoning March 2, 2006 Page 19 of90 with staff to continue through the process and not backtrack and I feel that we could work with ACHD and staff to reach a solution, depending on what the Commission and City Council looked at. Eric Oaas with Oaas Laney is also here tonight and I believe he'd like to say a couple things after we show a quick slide. This is a rendering of what the casa collection would look like from the street side. Next. And, then, we have a series of slides, you can just go through, Joe, that shows the -- kind of the inspiration, the catalyst for the design of this type. Clay tile roofs, stucco, simplistic design, but, again, in this type of climate with lots of sun, the shadows and massing really provide the buildings with their character. We do have a fence on -- which, if you can imagine around the perimeter we have a six foot fence, which will be the same type of materials as the buildings, they will be a concrete block wall with stucco and the detailing and, then, the gates will be cast iron. It's a little hard to see, but this is perhaps the best slide we could find in a hurry that conveys the type of wall we are looking at. The trellised area over the patios and the gazebo would look something like the last slide right here. So, do you have any questions before I have our client say a few words? Rohm: I think not. Let's-- Phillips: Okay. Oaas: Thank you, Russ. Commissioner Rohm and Planning and Zoning Commission. I'm Eric Oaas with Oaas Laney, 519 West Front in Boise. And just a couple quick items. I know you're very busy tonight, but just to give you an idea of the type of projects that we have done here in the valley, we have built a number of class A office buildings over in Nampa near the Idaho Center. We also are -- refurbished an old warehouse building on front street in Boise and it's, actually, the first -- we are very proud to be the first Leed certified commercial building in the state of Idaho. We were just granted our certification by the U.S. Green Building Council here just last week, so we are -- we like to think of ourselves as being sort of on the forefront of not only good development, but progressive thinking. Another development we are working on in downtown Boise is the Ada County Family Justice Center that will be a processing center for victims of sexual abuse and child abuse. So, we are -- we try to focus on projects that we think are not only valuable from a development standpoint, but also valuable to the community. Here in the Meridian area our predecessor company developed the Generations Plaza project. We are also in the process of finishing up the Double 0 site out on the corner of Victory and Locust Grove and we are in the process of demolishing that ugly silo building down on Main Street where Double 0 used to be located and we plan to put a very nice -- probably a mixed use retail office development on that site. So, beginning of next week we should see that coming down as well. We see the casa project here at Ten Mile Creek as being a continuation of what we really like to do as -- in terms of high quality projects that really are adding more to the community than taking away and we respectfully request you to consider seriously, but also consider what we have done to consider, really, what we are about. And if the Commission decides that there is additional work by way of staff's recommendations with regard to access, we would respectfully request approval with an understanding that we would go back and work these out. We think that the staff has presented some very. workable solutions and we Meridian Planning & Zoning March 2, 2006 Page 20 of 90 are quite willing to move forward, but we would prefer, because this has been in process for well over a year, we would prefer to move forward with the project without delay. Thank you very much. Any questions? Rohm: Commissioner Moe. Moe: Based on what you just said, then, I would anticipate that the stub street to the south would be okay for you, if, in fact, we were to require having the stub street to the south, as well as removal of the gates? Basically, just noting what the UDC code and whatnot is. Quite frankly, the UDC is not that old, so, therefore, we are not really -- I'm not amenable, I should say, to changing rules out of the UDC when we just have really adopted it and started working with it now. So, I'm just curious as far as those two items. You say that you will work with staff and those would be items that you could work with. Oaas: Commissioner Moe, I guess I would like to sort of bifurcate those two issues and, one, the stub street to the south we think staff has come up with some reasonable suggestions for how we might be able to address that. We do, however, feel that -- that the gates in this community, although it is a UDC requirement that's recently been adopted, we feel that that's very very important to the look and feel and workings of this development. I guess it's our -- it's our feeling that the UDC ordinance with regard to gates was primarily focused on commercial developments and because -- and because of that, it sort of got spilled over into the residential area as well and in doing so there is a portion of the diversity that Russ Phillips spoke to, a diversity of the -- of the environment and residential community here in Meridian that's being -- that's not being addressed and people who are desirous of living in those communities are either going to Boise or going elsewhere and Meridian, in some respects, is eliminating itself from consideration of people who are interested in that -- in that type of living. We would strongly encourage the Commission to reconsider that and we would be more than willing to -- and, in fact, we plan to submit an application for modification to the ordinance and spell out specifically why we think it's important from a residential standpoint to adopt changes to the code to allow gates in certain circumstances, because -- because of the fact that Meridian is driving that segment of the population away. Rohm: Thank you. Zaremba: Mr. Chairman? Rohm: Commissioner Zaremba. Zaremba: Thank you. I picked up on your comment about the Leeds certified building. Those are not part of our new UDC, so we can't require it, but we certainly encourage it. Are you planning to apply any of those principals to these buildings? Meridian Planning & Zoning March 2, 2006 Page 21 of 90 Oaas: Commissioner Zaremba, we have found that the Leeds concepts, being what we consider to be on the forefront of this activity or this movement, has been very enlightening for us. The project that we just -- that we completed and that's where our offices are, the Front Five building down on Front Street, is the Leed certified building and the first ~- by the way, the first one in the state of Idaho, but -- but because we were on the front end of that development, the Leeds -- adopting the Leeds concepts made it more expensive and we think that, you know, that's understandable when you're on the front end, because a lot of the materials that are required for Leeds buildings and sustainable buildings are not readily accessible and available in the area. However, a lot of the concepts of bringing daylighting into buildings and water conservation measures and looking at -- at bringing fresh air into buildings when the CO2 levels rise to the fact that -- or rise to the level where people are becoming more lethargic and the fact of light pollution. You know, if you drove by Our building downtown on Front Street at night you would notice that there is very very little light that shines up into the air that's causing, you know, light pollution. The lights that we have shine downward. So, from our perspective it's easy to look at adopting a lot of these same ideas, even though it may not be, quote, a Leeds certified project, we'd like to -- we'd like to bring these ideas into our projects, because we think they make sense. Zaremba: Good. Thank you. Newton-Huckabay: Mr. Chair? Rohm: Commission Newton-Huckabay. Newton-Huckabay: I think that we should probably move on with public testimony and get this hearing going. Rohm: Thank you. Oaas: All right. Thank you. Rohm: Thank you. There is no nobody else signed up to this, but at this point in time we certainly are open to public testimony. Please come forward. Walsh: Thank you. My name is Paul Walsh. My address is 2655 South Simsbury in Boise. I live over in the Muirwood Subdivision, almost Meridian. Wish I was. I'm working with the development group that has the parcel just to the south of this project. Okay. We have a small parcel, 6.53 acres. We ended up getting two stub roads. We got the one to the east requested and, then, also the one -- would be our north boundary, their south boundary, okay? A couple comments that I have as far as, one, the gates in there, I think lends real well to the subdivision and it would also avoid a cut- through that we see in the subdivision I live in in Meridian -- or in Muirwoods. We have that on the corner of Victory and Cloverdale. I have a friend that lives there, he had the police come out, they issued 17 citations in a four hour period for cut-throughs in this same configuration. So, I think the gates would alleviate some of that problem. Okay? Meridian Planning & Zoning March 2, 2006 Page 22 of gO Then, as far as the stub road coming in, in the event there was a gate there, it doesn't lend to the exclusiveness of the project. Okay. Also, secondly, the linear footage that I have along that north-south boundary there is limited and to add the dimension of an additional road in there just isn't conducive to our project on the other end either. My thought was is -- I understand for emergency access. There is plenty of access. I'm only doing 26 lots. So, it's a small project. And with their 32 lots, the need for an additional or an emergency access is limited and my thought was the pedestrian path that was shown that's connecting the two projects, if emergency access was a concern, if we turn that into an emergency entrance with breakaways, that would limit through traffic, would maintain the exclusiveness of their project, and would reduce our footage and, then, we could kill, basically, two birds with one stone, get the pedestrian cross- through that we are looking for to get over to the regional pathway that we are installing along Ten Mile Creek and I think it would just lend well to both projects where we are working together, basically, so -- Rohm: Thank you. Interesting. I appreciate your comments. At least from an adjacent property perspective, that kind of ties in with what they are saying. So, thank you very much. Any questions? Borup: Just clarification. Mr. Walsh, you support their project just as they have designed it it sounds like. Walsh: Yes. Borup: Other than adding the pathway. Walsh: Correct. I think that would be a good alternative for emergency access if that was a concern. Borup: Okay. Thank you. Rohm: Thank you. Borup: Just maybe one other question, Mr. Chairman. Did you say you had talked to ACHD on a preliminary basis -- Walsh: I have not. We are just starting our drawings. Borup: Okay. So, you are not planning a stub street to your north, then, at this point? Walsh: I think my engineer is drafting one, because staff requested it. As I talk with her -- I didn't make that meeting. As I talk with her I'd like to find an alternative solution to that stub street. Borup: Okay. But you're definitely planning to the east. Meridian Planning & Zoning March 2, 2006 Page 23 of 90 Walsh: Yes. That's been requested. Borup: Yeah. Walsh: I didn't care for that one either, but -- Borup: Well-- Walsh: -- I understand -- I understand the purpose of that one, okay, and then -- so, we are not going to battle with it and we can see -- you know, I want to try and design it to where I don't create a cut-through, because that seems to be the big concern. Borup: And you can do that with road designs easily. Walsh: Right. And so we are working towards that. Borup: Thank you. Moe: One question. Are you anticipating, then, to take -- for a road to go out onto Locust Grove as well -- into your property as well? Walsh: Yes, sir. Moe: Okay. Walsh: For about -- we are that parcel just to the north of the canal, so we have -- I'm not sure the frontage on there. We were going to bring one in off of Locust Grove, meander it though, and, then, take the stub to the east. I got a real limited size there -- I got about a hundred feet of frontage on that east boundary, so we are working through that. I kind of felt that the small parcel owners got left with all the stubs. You know, we had Tuscany was a large parcel, they could absorb some of their footage a little better and the way it went in that the small parcels got left with all the stub roads. So, it really - - with the way things are moving now, it leaves us with limited lots to make the project feasible, but we are working through those. So, I just -- looking for my project along with two stub streets on five acres and 26 lots, it eats you up pretty fast. Moe: Well, I guess I'm not going to speak for staff and whatnot, but I would anticipate that the reason, more or less, for the stub street to the south for this project that we are hearing tonight is the fact that I'm not so sure they'd like to see any access onto Locust Grove off that property to the south, because you're going have, you know, two streets coming out of Locust Grove right in that same area right there. You don't have much frontage along Locust Grove from our site that we are hearing tonight, so I think the intent was that that stub street take care of your development with no access onto Locust Grove. Meridian Planning & Zoning March 2, 2006 Page 24 of 90 Walsh: In their defense, I think that, you know, we are looking six to eight thousand square foot single families. Nice project, similar to Tuscany Village across the street with Craftsman style homes, where their property is so exclusive as to the design. they have put a lot of care into the design of the structures, the values that are going to be there, to have a subdivision that I feel is on a lower -- you know, it's not built to those type of price per square footages, it wouldn't -- if I had that project Over there, I wouldn't want another subdivision dumping in on mine and creating all that traffic through there, because it's going to affect the marketing of their project. Moe: I understand that. But the same point now we are dumping off a whole bunch more traffic into Locust Grove in two access points. That's another concern I had. Walsh: Right. Understood. Moe: Thank you. Rohm: Thank you. Is there anybody else that would like to testify to this application? Okay. Seeing none, discUssion? Zaremba: Mr. Chairman? Rohm: Commissioner Zaremba. Zaremba: A couple of points that come to mind and almost all of them in support of the staff report. I would confirm Commissioner Moers instinct that both ACHD's idea and the city's idea would be to have fewer accesses to Locust Grove. I think one of the things we are going to discover, when the Locust Grove overpass is built and, therefore, Locust Grove is connected, the two halves of Locust Grove connected north and south, this is going to become the relief valve of choice for people who need to move north and south in or through Meridian and don't want to be on Eagle Road or Meridian Road. This -- I'm willing to bet that within hours of that bridge being open, that whole corridor, the whole Locust Grove corridor, will exceed its 20 year design capacity. Probably within minutes, maybe hours. Therefore, this is very likely -- Locust Grove is very likely to be a very major thoroughfare. I'm sure it will need to be upgraded from a collector to an arterial at some point. Probably not too far off. And, therefore, I very much support the idea of not having the property we are talking about have an access to Locust Grove, and also the two properties in combination with the gentleman that provided the very good comments, that there should not be two accesses there. I think the access should be done through the stub street, as staff has recommended, and precisely for that reason. And I also would like to comment on the gate situation. I was on the committee that helped write the UDC and gates were discussed at length. I'll have to admit that my personal opinion is that they give a false sense of security. They slow fire and police down more than they slow thieves down, who can get around them anyhow, and I joined in the majority who wrote into the UDC the no gates and we did mean residential subdivisions for that purpose. That being said, I can also understand the applicant's discussion that it's the desire of Meridian to have a variety of housing types Meridian Planning & Zoning March 2, 2006 Page 25 of 90 and we usually interpret that to mean that we need to have more affordable housing. But there are also people on the other end of the scale who, as the applicant points out and other people have pointed out in other hearings, are well to do empty nesters, they want to down size the house and maintenance that they are living, but they don't necessarily want to cheapen how they live, and those people have the opinion that a gate provides them with some security and I don't think it's in the best interest of Meridian to force those people to go live in Eagle. We should make provision for them also. The current ordinance does not allow us to approve a gate. So, there really isn't any question about whether we can approve the gate, we can't. I would suggest to the applicant if they wish to pursue a change to the ordinance, there are a couple of elements that need to be included. The gate needs to be far enough from the major road, either a collector or an arterial, that three or four cars could stack before getting to the gate. There also needs to be a turnaround or an escape, so that somebody that turns in and discovers there is a closed gate, doesn't have to back out onto the arterial to escape. There needs to be a turnaround before the gate. And I would encourage them, if they are going to apply for a change to the ordinance, include those elements. The other issue is a very small one. I have lived in places that had decorative olive trees and they are very pretty for part of the year, but I have not -- I'm not aware of a fruitless olive tree and they make a terrible mess. They are not good for humans to eat without being processed. Birds will eat them, but the fruit drops and stains and I would urge them to reconsider that, unless they have found a fruitless olive tree. Those are my points. Rohm: Thank you, Commissioner Zaremba. Anybody else have some comments on this application? Newton-Huckabay: Mr. Chair? Rohm: Commissioner Newton-Huckabay. Newton-Huckabay: I just have a couple of comments regarding access to Locust Grove. There we go. We have access here. We are looking for access here. We are going to have to have an access for this piece of property here. Probably access Over here off of these ones, but I think it's going to be critical that we limit -- limit the access on Locust Grove for the reasons mentioned, but -- and if we don't, we are going to get -- we have all these pieces of property that would like to have access onto Locust Grove -- in my mind, the only one that can reasonably have it would be this parcel here. So, I would be in support of -- one, I'm in support of the stub street to the south property and the only access into the development from the Victory Road property. Victory Road. North. Right there. Other than that, I think it's a nice development. Zaremba: Mr. Chairman, " actually, have discovered I had a question that I would like to ask of the applicant. Rohm: By all means. ---- - -- --- Meridian Planning & Zoning March 2, 2006 Page 26 of 90 Zaremba: And have staff listen in as well. Mr. Phillips, if you'd come back up. And that is one of the new provisions of the UDC, which we are all trying to learn this new thing, but I just want to make sure you're aware of it. In multi-family developments there is a requirement to actually have a storage building for maintenance and landscaping materials and equipment and stuff like that and' didn't see that on the drawing, but is that something that knowing that there is a provision that that's required, can you add that someplace? And I would ask that it be made of similar materials to the rest of the -- Phillips: Chairman Rohm and Commissioners, in lieu of having a separate storage building, which, as you saw, was a very small site, what we have done is we have oversized the garages and, hopefully, this will satisfy the requirements -- in our view it did. These garages are approximately 28 feet long. Standard garages are normally 22, maybe 24 feet. So, we have got, essentially, six feet all across the back and we have also increased the width, so that we have an extra two feet on each side, so when car doors open that there will still be two feet on each side, plus six feet all across the back. So, we felt that this should more than accommodate storage. Exterior storage. Inside the -- each of the residences we also have, essentially, a storage room and that's roughly, I believe, maybe seven or eight by ten, but -- does that address your -- Zaremba: I appreciate the first part of your statement as increasing personal storage for the people that would live there. My question was more directed to the second part of your statement that came in at the end about the storage for what would be the association or the maintenance of the common property and the point that was discussed in the group that was writing the UDC was that in subdivisions of multi-family dwellings that don't have a separate storage building, then, maintenance materials end up being left out in a parking stall and, you know, if you have your own lawn mower, that ends up sitting out in the parking stall. So, the requirement is more aimed at equipment and supplies owned by the association or whoever is doing the maintenance. Phillips: All right. I understand. No, we don't have a separate building at this time, but we will definitely take a look at that. Zaremba: Okay. Thank you. Phillips: Thank you. Newton-Huckabay: Mr. Chair? Rohm: Commissioner Newton-Huckabay. Newton-Huckabay: I would request that we take a poll of the Commissioners in where we are heading towards tabling this for redesign; I would prefer not to get into one of our infamous redesign two hour public hearings if we could avoid it this evening. Not to be blunt. Rohm: Well, that -- the point is -- yeah, I don't have any problem with that. Meridian Planning & Zoning March 2, 2006 Page 27 of 90 Zaremba: Mr. Chairman, I would be happy to lead off. I think it's an excellent project. I think it would be a nice addition to Meridian. I do think it needs to have the changes that are mentioned in the staff report and a few other things we have met. But I would consider those tweaking to some extent, but I think being respectful to the applicant's request to move it on, unfortunately, we have been burned by redesigns a few times that didn't get to the City Council looking like what we thought we recommended. So, this Commission is uncomfortable approving something that's going to be changed. At least I personally am and I think I felt that from the others. So, my intention would be to continue this with some specific changes that need to be made and hear it again, but with the attitude that it will be approved at some point. Rohm: Thank you. Borup: Mr. Chairman? Rohm: Commissioner Borup. Borup: Point of clarification. Don't we still need to see a preliminary plat? Guenther: Mr. Borup, with this -- again, I want to point out one major fact, is that ACHD did recommend that this would be public streets. If this was public streets, then, we would have a plat. Borup: Okay. Guenther: We are still -- staff is still recommending that these remain private streets and meet ACHD's conditions. Now, ACHD is going to need to review this with the redesign. However, by the redesign of the staff -- city staff's conditioning, that would still be sent back to ACHD, but we are not going to get a new staff report or new staff comments from ACHD for quite awhile as what we would anticipate. Now, if we brought it in for a plat, it's only going to be for a condo plat. If we require those to be public streets, that's going to require a plat in itself and this design is not going to be conducive to public streets as it's currently shown. Even if you required the connections to be public, we would still need to have some mechanism in order to transfer that property as right of way to ACHD, which this site would not be conducive of. Borup: So, Mr. Phillips, this is strictly a condo, so the ownership is of the building itself, not of any of the property around it? There are not any deeded lots? Is that what you're saying? Phillips: That's correct. Borup: Okay. Well, continuing on with the other comments, I agree with Commissioner Zaremba, lUke the diversity; lUke to see something different like this. I mean we have had gated communities in the past -- maybe that's another question. Have there been ...,. Meridian Planning & Zoning March 2, 2006 Page 28 of 90 serious problems with any of our other gated -- well. actually. I can only think of one, but has there been problems with any other gated communities in Meridian? Zaremba: The two that I know of are at the south end of Bear Creek and about one block from where I live. Borup: Off of Linder? Zaremba: It's off of T alamore, which is the street -- it's not actually on the arteria I, wh ich is Black Cat, it's maybe a quarter of a mile in on a collector street, if you're visualizing the area -- Borup: The question was has there been problems? Zaremba: That has not been a problem. It's not on an arterial, but that has been no problem at all. When we discussed Bear Creek - and I believe their gate was approved -- it was with a requirement that there be enough stacking depth and that there be an escape and I haven't heard anything from the fire or police. Borup: ACHD did address the gates. They said that a minimum of 50 feet. Zaremba: Yeah. Borup: But they didn1 mention anything about the escape or turnaround or anything. Zaremba: Then we had one other that was right next to the high school and we recommended a disapproval of the gates and don't know what City Council did with that. Borup: Well, the comment was made that, you know, it's a nice project and -- but it's not going to be the same project if we change it. And I guess I'm not Sure which direction I'm going, but, again, you know, if we start adding the stub streets and eliminate the gates, it's not the same project. Newton-Huckabay: I'd like to see a redesign. Rohm: Commissioner Moe. Moe: Pretty much just as I spoke earlier and I'm in agreement with Commissioner Zaremba. Quite frankly, I would like to see a redesign in regards to the stub street, as well as the gating. Phillips: Mr. Chainnan and Commissioners, if r may go ahead and speak. You know, again, we would -- we have met with staff yesterday and we believe that we discussed the private street issue and it seemed to us that we have -- we are pretty close on -- we are on the same wave length as far as how to resolve that issue. The gates we are preparing a text amendment, which we will be presenting to City Council and the Mayor .... Meridian Planning & Zoning March 2, 2006 Page 29 of 90 and we feel like at this point that the feedback we have gotten from the neighborhood meeting, from working with staff and ACHD and other folks, that we are really close and what we really prefer, if you would go along with us, is to sit down and just work out, really, a few details and that way we don't need to alter the entire development. Rohm: And I think that echoed throughout the Commission here that we want to see those before we move forward and even though you're close to coming to some sort of an agreement with staff, before we make any recommendation onto City Council, we want to see what you come up with and I don't think that we can -- we don't want to be in a position to redesign your project and, like Commissioner Borup said, if, in fact, we sat here and started talking about your private roads and your gates and things such as that, that that's -- in essence, we would be redesigning your project. So, from our perspective we think that it's best for you to take it back to staff and work with them with the comments that you have heard from the Commission tonight and taking those into consider, come back, and we will continue this to a later hearing and we will act on it at that time and probably, if I had just one question of you, is how long do you think that it will take you to come up with an alternative to the current configuration that will meet staff's expectations and we will just continue this hearing to a date certain that you feel that you can comply with staff's recommendations. Phillips: Well, I believe we are close enough that we could turn that around within -- we could be at your next hearing date, which is, what, two weeks? Rohm: On the 16th that will -- let me ask staff if they concur with -- Borup: Review time. Guenther: If we have the materials ten days prior to the hearing, we can, typically, turn it around. With this type of a development, I -- we have got most of the staff report already written, it would just be a modification, which doesn't take as much time. I feel that if the conditions listed in the staff report were redesigned and we could have the redesign within that ten days time limit, we should be able to do it at the next hearing. If it goes over the ten days, we have got enough hearing items for the 16th that I wouldn't recommend it at all. Zaremba: Mr. Chairman, interpreting what staff just said, they would have to have final drawings by next Monday in order to have ten days before the next hearing. So, my question to both staff and applicant is can you finalize the changes that are being requested and have it in a final form to staff by Monday? Phillips: Yes, we can. But what we would like to do is just meet with staff one more time and -- you know, we look to you as far as if you have any specific, you know, conditions that you would like to be seen, then, we need to be sure to incorporate those. With those, we can meet that time frame. ,.~ Meridian Planning & Zoning March 2, 2006 Page 30 of 90 Rohm: I think the one thing that Commissioner Zaremba brought up is we, as a Commission, cannot move forward with a gated community, because it's not in agreement with ordinance and so that, in and of itself, would have to be dropped from any proposal that comes back to this board until such time that that ordinance changes. Anyway, that's the way as I see it. Zaremba: Mr. Chairman, my comment on that would be, though, that anticipating that they are determined enough to have gates that they are going to take the step of making an application to change the ordinance, they would need to design the roadway to, incorporate the elements, so that if and when they put in a gate, there was a wide enough space to have a u-turn escape and that the gate would be located far enough from the arterials and they could design those elements into what we see without the gates -- Rohm: Fair enough. That's acceptable from my perspective. The gates, as far as this application, just wouldn't be included. Okay. Borup: One final comment, I guess, I'd have is -- and I think I feel as strong as anybody about interconnectivity, except for I can see this as one development where I don't know that it necessarily applies. You know, the emergency access through a pathway would take care of any public safety concerns and beyond that I think it's taking away from the project that they are proposing. Rohm: Okay. The draft agenda for the 16th already has 17 items on it and I guess that I'd ask that -- could you give us the next two weeks and move it to April 6th, so I -- I don't know that we are going to be able to get through the agenda that we already have set for March 16th. And the value to moving it to April 6th gives you and staff more time to work out these details and we would have a project that we could move forward more aggressively at the April 6th meeting. If you can live with that, we'd certainly appreciate that. Phil/ips: Just one moment. Borup: Well, if not, they have got one day to meet with staff and one day to prepare the drawings, if they have to have it Monday. Rohm: Well-. and that's the point. Borup: That's only two days. Rohm: That doesn't give them much time for creativity. Borup: Busy weekend. ._--..~ Meridian Planning & Zoning March 2, 2006 Page 31 of 90 Zaremba: Well, I think the applicant has made the point we are only talking, really, about redesign of a small southwest portion of this project. The rest of it wouldn't change just because a stub road needs to go -- Rohm: It's your call. Phillips: All right. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Commissioners. We would really prefer a continuance to the next -- the next Public Hearing, at which time, you know, we would meet the -- I'm certain we can meet the time frame. Rohm: Fair enough. Thank you. Phillips: All right. Zaremba: Well -- and the issues are known, so it should be a short discussion when it comes back. If they comply and work it out with staff it should be easy for us. Rohm: Thank you very much. Zaremba: Thank you. Mr. Chairman? Rohm: Commissioner Zaremba. Zaremba: I move we continue AZ 05-067 and CUP 05-060 to our regularly scheduled meeting of March 16th, 2006, to give applicant and staff time to work out issues that have been raised, as well as those already presented in the staff report. Moe: Second. Rohm: It's been moved and seconded that we continue Items AZ 05-067 and CUP 05- 060 to the regularly scheduled meeting of March 16th, 2006. All those in favor say aye. Opposed same sign? Thank you very much. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 8: Public Hearing: AZ. 06MO05 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 58.56 acres from RR to R-4 (32.86 acres), TN-C (14.54 acres) and C-C (11.16 acres) for Knight Sky Estates Subdivision by Sea 2 Sea, LLC - northwest corner of Chinden Boulevard and Linder Road: Item 9: Public Hearing: PP 06MO04 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 126 residential lots (22 townhouse lots and 102 detached single-family lots), 7 commercial lots and 26 common lots on 55.83 acres in a proposed R-4, TN-C and C-C zones for Knight Sky Estates Subdivision by Sea 2 Sea, LLC - northwest corner of Chinden Boulevard and Linder Road: