HomeMy WebLinkAbout2006 02-28 Joint City of Kuna
Meridian City Council & Kuna City CouncU Spec~
February 28. 2006
The Meridian City Council and Kuna City Council Special Joint Meeting was
called to order at 5:00 P.M. on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 at the Meridian
Police Department by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Mayor Tammy de Weerd, Keith Bird, Shaun Wardle, Charlie
Rountree and Joe Borton.
Staff Present: Bill Nary, Anna Canning, Brad Watson, Len Grady, Bill Musser,
Steve Siddoway, Bruce Freckleton, Michael Cole and Will Berg.
Kuna Members Present: Mayor Dean Obray, Richard Cardoza, Scott Dowdy,
Jeffrey Lang and Trina Stroebel.
Ada County Commissioners: Rick Yzaguirre and Fred Tilman.
Item 1.
Roll-call Attendance:
Roll call.
X Shaun Wardle
X Charlie Rountree
X
X Joe Borton
X Keith Bird
Mayor Tammy de Weerd
Item 2.
Adoption of the Agenda:
Item 3.
Discussion of the Areas of City Impact and Sewer Services:
De Weerd: Thank you. I thought we would start off our meeting just with a
general planning overview, Steve Siddoway, he is one of our principal planners
and he is just going to give an overview of a land use planning process from the
land use perspective and so Steve I will turn this over to you.
Siddoway: I appreciate the opportunity to address this body. I was asked to kind
of give just a general planner's view of how we might tackle the issues that we
are dealing with in this area. A real issue is how do we create a win, win
situation here for not only the two cities here at the table, but also for the
residents and the property owners in the area? Something that we can come up
with that works for everyone. If we don't do that, we may come up with a win,
lose situation or worse a lose, lose situation that may not work for everyone in
the long term. So, thinking about these issues for far reaching, long-term
impacts as we move into the future. I know that there are many important issues
to both communities that need to be considered as we determine what priorities
Meridian City Council & Kuna City Council Special Meeting
February 28. 2006
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of impact. One is sewer ability. It has probably got the most attention recently in
these discussions and is certainly an important consideration, but again, it is just
one consideration. We need to consider the existing residents attachment to
place as we figure out these boundaries and the sense of identity that comes
with it and the values that people hold. There are issues that I have heard about
fire and EMT services and how these issues of drawing a line for the cities areas
of impact may affect that. There needs to be understanding of the affect, if any,
on the existing boundaries. How does it relate to the school district now? How
does it relate to library district, Post Office, the things we have heard issues
about and how if at all are those things affected by what goes on there. I know
both cities have interested economic vitality and provision for a future growth as
we continue to grow into the future. That is just my list. I am sure there are
many others that you may come to the table with and I think we may be trying to
identify those a little later, but from a purely planning perspective, I believe it may
be too early to sit here tonight and try and draw a line between the two cities.
We first need to have credible data that we can all agree on for those issues just
mentioned and others that you may have. I do believe that the areas of impact,
the boundaries for them will likely become clear, certainly clearer than they are
now as we understand the answers to those questions. How will we get there
from here? Well, the City of Meridian has allocated funds that are currently
available to study this area. Ada County has agreed to partner and participate
financially in such an effort and could be seen as a third party facilitate planning
of the area. It is our hope as the City of Meridian that the City of Kuna may be
interested in joining this partnership and reach out in a major public involvement
effort to study these issues and help us to determine those lines. We have all
been involved in regional planning efforts, such as Blue Print for Good Growth,
Communities in Motion that have helped to bring this to the table and with the
intent of helping us to facilitate these types of discussions up front. Similarly,
Ada County is currently involved in their Comprehensive Plan update and as
such they have an interest in possibly making this area between Meridian and
Kuna one of their sub-area plans in cooperation with the two cities. So, the
questions I would have as a staff person is one do we take the planning road to
answer such questions before trying to draw the line between our communities?
Can we set aside the annexation process long enough to give a consensus
building process a chance to succeed. I believe that if the answer is yes to those
two questions, then we have an opportunity to reach agreement on what this
area should become as we work together to determine where the areas of impact
ought to be. With that I will turn it back to the Mayor or stand for any questions.
De Weerd: Are there any questions for Steve at this time? Well, again, I would
like to thank you for coming. We appreciate you being here and I will try and talk
loud enough - this room is not set up very conducive to a public type of hearing,
but being a daughter of a football coach, I always have had one of those football
voices, so I will try and talk so you can hear me. Meridian appreciates that Kuna
is here today. We certainly have always intended to work with you. We want to
be good neighbors. We came to the table to be part of your solution, not a part
Meridian City Council & Kuna City Council Special Meeting
February 28, 2006
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of the problem and maybe it is with great regret when I read some of the things
that I have read lately and it looks like Meridian has been drug (inaudible) as
being part of the problem with certainly not that intention. We have never
annexed outside of our area of impact. We certainly have never forced
annexation to anyone and we believe as Steve just outlined, we believe in the
public process that plans an area of impact and we are firm believers of that
public outreach. So, with that said, when we came to the table with Kuna, we
were only there to offer another opportunity or another option to your sewer
challenges. One of those was for a short term solution so that you could have a
greater window to plan how you are going to deal with the long term sewer
issues. We also had as an option the opportunity for a partnership or a long term
sewer option as well. Certainly those things are still on the table for your
consideration or not. That is something that our Council's will discuss. I guess
as I turn this over to the Council Presidents, I would ask if you could share what
your objectives are for the meeting outcomes and also that in that discussion if
you will also address maybe how we can provide a planning process for the
existing residents and property owners out there and how they can be a part of
defining this region and have meaningful participation. As well, we do need an
answer if Kuna does want Meridian to be a temporary or a long term solution, we
will need to know so we can start planning our services accordingly and we have
a window of about a month and we need to get our budgets in and that is
(inaudible), so we will need to know in a month's period of time. So, with that
said I will first turn it over to President Lang and then ask our Council President
to comment after President Lang.
Lang: Thank you Madame Mayor. Kuna's plan is to continue our growth in Kuna
as we have been planning. Our current Comprehensive Plan was adopted in
2003. That is the Comprehensive Plan that we have been following (inaudible).
In 2004, we pulled it back from the county because of the lack of studies and in
2004 we hired an engineering firm to do our master sewer and water plan. That
has been completed and we are in the midst of adopting this plan. With that we
also have had community outreach committees - advisory committees meeting
as to what the best planning for the community is. Our current sewer situation is
as everyone knows we have the sewer (inaudible), which are pretty much
obsolete at this point and time. The direction that we have received from our
citizens is a new treatment plant. That advisory committee, which also had a
planning person, a professional planning person that sat on this committee had
chosen the areas of Lake Hazel and Ten Mile because the sewer would gravity
to you (inaudible). Currently, we are pumping everything to the south to our
current plant. We have about 1,700 existing connections that will last us about
three years, about the time that we would bring on the new plant. Our goal is
after we bring on this new plant is to eventually in time take off the old plant from
(inaudible) south of town. At that point we have 400 acres that we plan to turn
into recreational uses. As everyone knows, recreational use in this part of the
county is pretty tough and hard to find - ball fields (inaudible), things that are
associated with (inaudible). Currently, Kuna doesn't have a lot of that. That is
Meridian City Council & Kuna City Council Special Meeting
February 28, 2006
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our plan and our goal to provide our citizens with that existing farm. As far as
going south there, we border BLM land, Birds of Prey land they have no options
of going south. Our planning has been always to go north. We, too, want to be
good neighbors and work together and it's never been our intention to invoke or
start anything that we could not handle or control. I think at this point it has been
blown out of proportion. What we need to do - planning is very important on
both cities. The cities need to do the planning. We shouldn't let the developers
drive what we need to plan for. Developers have come to us and when they
didn't like what they wanted; they went to you, the City of Meridian and if they
didn't like that they went to the county. They are bouncing back and forth in the
developer park. We need to stand firm and let these developers know that this is
where you are at and this is what you will get, not we will give this to you if you
couldn't get this. We need to stand firm and not be driven by the developers. Let
the cities draw the plat and then the developers work around that. Lake Hazel
has been the boundary that we have always proposed. We are almost there with
our current area of impact. It follows the school district boundaries. We have
recently held a Town Hall meeting in which the citizens of Kuna have said when
you drop down in that hill that is Kuna and that is what they want to see. We
have listened to our constituents and this is the direction that they have asked us
to go. We are listening and are following them. We have never forced annexed
anyone into the City of Kuna. It has all been voluntary. People want to develop,
but they want to have a plan. Planning is very important in that we do follow all
of our plan. That is what our Comprehensive Plans are there for to follow our
land use planning. The area of impact is those areas that will impact our city.
We need to listen to those people, not just have them part of there, but the
problem they are our citizens, they are our constituents and we need to listen to
everyone that is out there and our voice that we have been hearing is we need to
draw a line and this is the boundaries that we need to work on. Planning is very
important to all of us. We, too, agree that there is area that possibly the county
wouldn't be the ones to oversee. Together between us, the county and the City
of Meridian we can make a plan that we can all work with and we can make this
part of the county beautiful. We all read in the paper, the County Commissioners
want to build a park out at Hubbard Lake. If we can all work together that area
can affect both cities as well as the county, then why not join hands and work
together, rather than at each other's throats making out accusations? None of us
wants to do that. None of us have tried and if we have in the past, we apologize.
It was never our intention to put anyone on the defensive. We have only been
doing (inaudible----) to do and that is our plan and that is where we are going.
Our sewage stream plant there along Lake Hazel is the best option. We will
service the community and in the past you have offered graciously helping to
take some of our sewer on a part time basis. Also, brought up is a regional
treatment facility - you build or maybe we build if we have the option. We can
service both cities, but at the point we need to continue our work in making what
is best for the citizens in the county and the citizens of our community. You have
elected us to be that voice. Does anyone have any questions?
Meridian City Council & Kuna City Council Special Meeting
February 28, 2006
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De Weerd: I am sorry, Mr. Bird, just a moment, but for the record Commissioner
Yzaguirre and Tilman have joined us. Welcome and we appreciate you being
here. Yes, Mr. Bird.
Bird: Jeff you said that in three years that you would have a new sewer
treatment plant up and going?
Lang: Yes we can have it going in three years.
Bird: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay, Councilman Wardle.
Wardle: Thank you very much and I guess maybe to recap and I didn't write a lot
of notes down. I wanted to really come to this meeting with an open mind and I
think what I just heard from Kuna is the fact that we really do want a partner to
plan this area. I think that has been Meridian's goal all along. Certainly, thank
you for coming this evening and offering that up. I think, Council that we can
agree that our planning effort should go forward in partnership. I think one of the
things that has been talked about is - and I am not an attorney, so Mr. Nary
correct me, but state code allows cities to annex within - annex outside their
areas of impact given some restrictions. I think that is one of the things that we
are here to talk about this evening is as we move forward with those planning
efforts can we come to an agreement that any of those areas available for
annexation would wait until both cities have agreed on plan? That is one of the
things that (inaudible) talked about and if we could have a little discussion that
would be great.
Lang: At this point we need to continue with the plan that we have because that
is part of our financing plan, part of treatment plant - we (inaudible) line there at
Lake Hazel is the one that has been drawn and that is the one the citizens - then
the Council has authorized me to establish (inaudible) at Lake Hazel - that
follows the school district's boundaries, not only the school district, but fire district
as well. We are just trying to stay within those boundaries.
Wardle: So let me I guess further clarify - we are talking about now as two
communities planning an area with the restriction that from Kuna's perspective
we are drawing a line at Lake Hazel - is that - so we really are only talking about
planning other areas outside of Lake Hazel, is that correct?
Shreeve: President Lang, I guess one question or comment I have got along
those lines that it makes sense; I think that Mr. Siddoway's comments were on
the money when you talk about planning this area from a regional perspective.
There is preliminary talk now about working together and trying to cooperate and
create a regional concept in how this should be planned and perhaps preventing
annexation until those decisions are made and the cities can cooperate. Having
Meridian City Council & Kuna City Council Special Meeting
February 28, 2006
Page 6 of 27
said that, it appears as though the planning process already has the proverbial
and line drawn in the sand. Can you comment for me a little bit about some of
the background as to where you came up with Lake Hazel as being the best line?
We have talked about doing some joint planning efforts and what might be the
best way for both cities to service this area and what would be best for the
communities and from what I hear and maybe I misheard or misunderstood it
sounds as though Kuna in their perspective has made the decision that that line
has, in fact, been drawn, which is really a large part of this whole discussion.
Maybe there is some background information that your citizens have provided
and your Council has provided, which led to that conclusion that you think Lake
Hazel is the proper line.
Lang: The Comprehensive Plan that was adopted in 2003 takes our area of
impact a half a mile south of Lake Hazel. That is what we have been planning
for. Our master sewer plan, we are capable of servicing utilities to Victory if we
needed to and that was part of this.
Obray: (Inaudible) bring a map showing the (inaudible) geographically?
De Weerd: Councilman Lang, I guess as Diane puts that up there, if you also
make comment Meridian since the early '90's has had the (inaudible) down to
Columbia and that has been a line as you have seen the map in front of you has
been accepted since the early '90's as far as I know --why that has breached that
area and maybe some of the reasons behind that as well.
Lang: From a sewer utility perspective with the planning that we have done, this
is showing the sewer planning concept that has been developed over the last
year and one half pursuing these utility plans. (Inaudible) why Lake Hazel?
When the city proposed - initially their impact area was including the half mile
between Columbia and Lake Hazel and as we were commissioned as their
engineer to figure out how to service that area. Will it be water, sewer, and
pressurized irrigation? We took that area in terms of looking at that in a meeting
early on, probably about a year and one half ago, plus or minus some months we
had a meeting with your city engineering staff with Brad Watson and Len and
also with Nampa's City Engineer and one time it was or what was discovered at
that meeting is we had proposed initially Lake Hazel and we saw that there was a
high ridge based to the south, which more or less made a triangle of sorts of all
those determined to be almost a no-man's land and it was at that meeting I
guess from both Meridian and Kuna's perspective, Kuna took it upon themselves
to say well you know geographically speaking it makes sense the sewer is
flowing downhill and we can pick that up and Brad, I believe, thought well maybe
Meridian could pick that up, but in either case we show really sewer service in
terms of that going even north of Lake Hazel. But, I believe it's been in the last
several months through these discussion process that we have just simply
indicated and the Mayor and the Council has said let's just cut them off there at
Lake Hazel and try to come to some kind of a rational way of coming to a
Meridian City Council & Kuna City Council Special Meeting
February 28, 2006
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negotiation for all intents and purposes. So, the boundary was established and
we looked to sewer it, water it, provide the utilities as necessary and so really it is
just a point now of determining who serves what. But, we do have the ability to
sewer this. We have got treatment capacity, in fact just had a meeting today with
DEQ and through visiting with them, through some additional calculations that
have been done on the lagoons and some of the improvements that we are
doing, we have actually increased the capacities of these lagoons by an
additional 700. So, we are looking at another 2,400 connections out there. So,
Kuna is in a situation and in a position to sewer and provide utilities as we plan.
So, that is just one of the planning that the city, of course, has commissioned us
to do it and we have done that.
Stroebel: (Inaudible) I worked for (inaudible) and actually on this map does not
show up correctly is a half mile in between Hubbard (inaudible) and Columbia
and that has been done since 1998. This is the area of impact that we are
looking at. I will try and explain a little bit on this map. The green area is the
BLM land, so to the south, Kuna can't really grow. We have BLM and Birds of
Prey area. Our sewer lagoons are in the blue. We have had annexation
applications for these properties to get us to our sewer facility. These in the
black we have currently annexed. We tried two routes to make sure that we
didn't get stopped to get to that treatment facility. Since that time we have had -
in the blue, we have had people come in and sign letters of intent that they would
like to be a part of Kuna. This is our Comprehensive Plan that was adopted by
the city in 2003, which shows a half mile north of Columbia. So, we have been
planning for this forever. It took us three years to get this one adopted. So, we
have been planning, we have been looking at our area of impact at least up to -
half a mile north of Columbia. So, with the sewer study that helps us to identify
that possibly we need to go up to Lake Hazel. Some of these other maps - this
is the school district map. This is Lake Hazel right here - the blue comes down
on part of it a half a mile between Lake Hazel and Columbia. This is also our fire
district. Our library district also goes along the same lines as our school district
and the fire district comes straight across Lake Hazel and then dips around over
to Maple Grove.
Wardle: Just for clarification the area of impact adopted by Kuna has not also
been adopted by the county, is that correct?
Stroebel: Correct. We did not go forward with that because we needed our
facilities plan, our master plan. Kuna pulled that back in 2004 and they hired a
consultant and we have that plan and currently we can take our plan forward to
the county.
Wardle: Now, I guess just a comment on the presentation here, briefly. It
sounds to me like comments that would be made during a comprehensive plan
process that would be expanding the area of impact and in my experience in the
City of Meridian one of the things that we do when we expand our areas is that
Meridian City Council & Kuna City Council Special Meeting
February 28. 2006
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we take into consideration all factors, planning, residents, property owners and I
think that our City Council had that in mind when a more public process with the
joint effort between the City of Kuna, the City of Meridian as well as the county.
But, if I can just clarify again of what I am hearing tonight is Kuna is willing to do
that as long as the process is north of Lake Hazel. Is that correct?
Stroebel: Could I answer that in just a little bit? I think we could still plan. What
Kuna has been doing with those properties that we have annexed them with an
agricultural zone so that we can come back and they can rezone those properties
for the development? So, we still have an opportunity to join in the joint plan, so
that we can all plan together for that area.
Wardle: Could you re-clarify that, again. I am sorry - you are wanting to plan
together, but not consider it as a whole, is that what I heard?
(Inaudible discussion)
Obray: I guess maybe I would like to clarify that. The question you continue to
ask is do we want to plan together? Yes. But, the answer to your direct question
is Lake Hazel is our north boundary that is the one that we propose. That is not
going to shift in either direction no matter what the planning is, there is every
evidence in the planning that we have done in the past that that should be our
boundaries - both geographically, the way the ground lays, both by what
resources we serve such as fire, police, school boundary, library boundary and
so that doesn't mean that we can't plan. I think the intent of Kuna at this meeting
is to tell you that that boundary has to be set before the planning process can go
any further. Kuna has already researched what they can service in that area and
who is affected and what the residents want. What we need now is to agree
politically on a boundary so we know who's jurisdiction it lays in so that
everybody including the county and we can all go together to plan for future
growth in that area. Just because it is within the city boundary jurisdiction
doesn't mean that we don't want a cooperative effort in planning. We don't want
the boundary next to our boundary to be completely different. We don't want you
to have R-1 next to an R-6 for instance - we still have got to plan together and
your definition of planning and our definition of planning is the hang up here. But,
if that answers your question directly then hopefully (inaudible). My answer to
your question is we aren't going to move on the (inaudible) boundary, but we
want to plan and we still think there is room to plan.
De Weerd: But, all of your planning documents up to just lately has been south
of Lake Hazel. I mean, we want this dialogue, but it sounds like Kuna is just
coming to the table saying it is Lake Hazel, we don't care what you say and we
want to plan with you, but it is Lake Hazel. We have had our boundary down to
Columbia. We are not saying it can't move, but I haven't really heard why.
When you went into your public participation process, did you invite Ada County
or Meridian to be part of this as you try to find out what do the people of that area
Meridian City Council & Kuna City Council Special Meeting
February 28, 2006
Page 9 of 27
feel? Who do they feel a relationship towards? I agree as you come down and
you hit Columbia it feels like you have come home to Kuna. There is a sense of
entry there. But, whether it is Lake Hazel as your line was drawn several years
ago, it is south of Lake Hazel or at a certain point where we have had it for the
last 15 plus years, it is Columbia - isn't that a negotiation instead of - all I have
heard is it is Lake Hazel, I don't care what you say, but we want to come here
and get consensus and then move forward. We would like that too. I guess
when we work to compromise or to build consensus we try and do it with each
other.
Obray: I think that if I was in your position, I wouldn't be so lenient. But, Kuna is
not in the position of Meridian. The other factor that we haven't talked about that
Kuna keeps screaming at you with is our basic development for commercial
growth. You guys are sitting on 50 square miles of development area and
probably 40 miles of high impact road area for commercial development - just
numbers out of the sky, but they are probably not that far off. Kuna basically has
a corridor of about six miles with Lake Hazel (inaudible). We have to support our
community with facilities the same way as you do. We have to have recreational
facilities, on culture and all the other things that can only be paid for by
commercial growth, so, it is imperative to Kuna. It would be just like chopping off
our own neck to negotiate a different boundary. I am not at the liberty of you.
We don't have that prestige of all that money coming in on a tax base. You can
put this on planning and you can call us bums if you want, I don't care what you
do, but the fact is we need that area. And it doesn't matter what you say in a
public setting, it isn't going to change that. It's a life or death issue for Kuna. I try
to be diplomatic, but I am not a politician and I keep telling you if you force me, I
will just be blunt. That is as much as I can be. I have to protect the citizens of
Kuna and the only way I can is to just draw a line in the sand and that is exactly
what we had to do and we have listened to Kuna. If you want to come to a
meeting I will be happy to have a joint meeting anywhere you want and invite the
public and you can hear the screams.
De Weerd: But, Mayor those residents right now are residents of Ada County.
Obray: That is true.
De Weerd: So, have you listened to them?
Obray: Yes. It is an issue right now between do you want to be controlled with
Meridian? You want to be controlled with Kuna's growth and development or you
want to be controlled with Ada County? It isn't an issue if you are going to be
developed. That is not an issue and they understand that. It is the issue of
which one entity do you relate to the most that you want to be tied into? Either
Meridian, Ada County or Kuna and they understand that issue and we brought
that to the table and they still tell us we want to be with Kuna. If we have a
choice to make today, it is Kuna. We have always lived in Kuna. We relate to
Meridian City Council & Kuna City Council Special Meeting
February 28, 2006
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Kuna. We like the atmosphere there and if you don't, it's your fault that you don't
enforce what we are asking. I am not here as Dean Obray. I am here to listen to
the citizens and these Councilmen are here too. (Inaudible) said we have
direction from the Councilor I have direction from the Council. It wasn't direction
from the Council per say, it was direction from the citizens. If they have to be the
ones to tell you what I am telling you then we should set that meeting up so that
you can hear them.
Lang: Our citizen's advisory committee that was looking at the best place
location for a sewer treatment plant - they looked at all things together. We have
looked at back down to our existing place, but as the city grows we are
(inaudible) for that application. We have done our research on these new
technologies for the new sewer treatment plant. This citizen's advisory
committee was not only (inaudible) members and citizens in the community, but it
what those people that lived in that area of impact out through there.
(Inaudible discussion)
Lang: Clair Bowman was one of them that sat on this. One of the sites was just
right there next to his home that was proposed because of the developer willing
to help us acquire the land. We looked at everything. The citizens said that this
would be the best place. They looked at the geographic area. They looked at
the slopes. They looked at everything. This is the area that this committee
received from input that they inquired about from the citizens. They controlled
this committee. It wasn't us. That was the report that was given back to us is to
go north. The boundary was Lake Hazel that was set in that committee that
came back to us. That is what we have worked at and that is how we are
planning. As Diana has mentioned, these annexations are going forth - they are
coming in as agricultural, so we still have the opportunity to plan for that
development. We are just not giving somebody the option for coming in for
whatever zoning they want, they are still going to have to work out a
development plan. There still has to be planning involved. You can't just
(inaudible) a development and say we want you in the city, so we will just give
you whatever you want from the beginning - you don't do that. You need to work
at the whole planning process to see what fits, what works, what the citizens
want and their desire, not what the developers want.
De Weerd: Well, President Lang I guess one thing and you know I understand
your urgency and I understand the processes that you have had. My concern is
as we approached your Mayor a year and one half ago to start this land use plan.
We didn't know anything about what you were doing and anything else. It wasn't
mentioned and at this point some of the people in those affected areas and
certainly some of the people between Lake Hazel and Columbia are currently in
our referral area that we have plans to work for - they do not have to participate
in a LID. They don't have to put money up front and they need to know what
their options are too arbitrarily without their participation in drawing that line and
Meridian City Council & Kuna City Council Special Meeting
February 28. 2006
Page 11 of 27
say okay Kuna we will draw this line. The ramifications to the people in that area
whether they are served by Meridian or they are served by Kuna. If they are
served by Meridian, they do not need to participate in a LID and that is money up
front.
Lang: We are not requiring everybody to join the LID (inaudible-----)
development.
De Weerd: I am not requiring to any particular (inaudible---) -
Lang: This is what started this - please - approached us, but at the point we
didn't have the sort of capacity to hear them. We do now. But, this is what
started the whole thing. We are not forcing anyone into a LID. It is voluntary.
AT this point, this person has said that they weren't going to do it, which is fine.
But, we need to do this in order to finance this. Our citizens - we don't want to
burden our current citizens (inaudible) this new plant. Your development should
pay for this and that is what we are asking. As the development community, that
plans the developing unit to help solve this situation and that is what we are
asking them to do is to participate in this LID to build this new plant. This is the
plant that we have come up with and if they don't then we will take it to our
citizens, but our first option and this came from our citizens is to ask the
development community to participate and that is what we are asking them to do.
It is voluntary. It is not a demand. If they would like to they can. We have never
forced anything on anyone and we don't intend to.
(Speaker unknown): I would like to make a comment, a couple of things. You
know you keep talking about this - you know how our area, the Comprehensive
Plan is going over into your area for referral. Well, we are talking about a tiny
little chunk from Columbia between half a mile past Lake Hazel and Columbia;
excuse me Highway 69 and Columbia north. It is the tiniest little chunk, the
northeast chunk of that Comprehensive Plan and encompasses three quarters of
a square mile and that is it. That is the only area that overlaps between your
referral area and our Comprehensive Plan. Secondly, as far as the boundary
that Kuna has talked about and the Comprehensive Plan, I mean this is not just
you know boundaries that we just pull out of the air and said oh, well, let's just go
here. It is the - the boundary has been decided or looked at in regard to five
years of study for this area between the Comprehensive Plan and the two years
that have been spent with our engineers planning for the infrastructure, not only
sewer but also water and irrigation. That is what has driven to where Kuna has
looked at the boundary and again, Kuna needs a new sewer facility. That is all
there is too it. We are going to build a new sewer facility. How we get there
remains to be seen, whether it be directly through an LID participation with the
developers and letting growth pay for itself or if it's a combination of an LID and
some sort of a (inaudible) bond voted for by the citizens. But, Kuna is coming to
this from the standpoint of we need this new facility and we have a plan on how
we can get this new facility and we need to go forward and build this facility. We
Meridian City Council & Kuna City Council Special Meeting
February 28, 2006
Page 12 of 27
have a window of opportunity open to us right now that we feel that we have a
plan that can fund this facility hopefully solely just with the developers money. As
Jeff said, we are not forcing anybody to participate in the LID. The only entities
that may be forcibly participating in this would be the developments that have
already been approved that don't have current sewer connections in our facility.
We haven't made that decision yet, but we are not just going to annex - you
know we are not trying to annex people and go out here and tell people in this
area that hey by the way we are going to put a LID on your property if you come
into the City of Kuna. This is a culmination of a long process of study and
planning on the part of the City of Kuna and we feel we have a workable option
here and we need to go forward to make this happen for the future of our city.
De Weerd: Thank you Councilman. Councilman Wardle?
Wardle: Thank you. Well, one of the things that I think is being asked is - that I
understand Kuna is asking this evening is for me to make a political decision on a
line or at least that is what I am understanding. I have made political decisions,
but typically I do that through public involvement, public participation and I don't
have the information to be able to do that this evening. I think it would be
irresponsible of me as a representative of the City of Meridian to do that this
evening and to say that we don't need further participation.
(Speaker unknown): Well, if I could respond to that. Kuna is not coming here
and asking the City of Meridian to make any decisions at this time. We are just
telling - I mean, this is a joint meeting. All we are saying is that we have put a lot
of effort and time and resources into this planning process or updating and
upgrading our sewer plant and as the City of Kuna we know what our needs are
and we have a plan that we want to go forward on. We are not asking you to
make any decisions. We are just telling you what our position is, what our stance
is on this and what we need as a city to go forward with this plan. So, I don't
think that anybody (inaudible) the city has asked you to make a decision. We
discussed drawing a line and drawing a boundary so it puts it into the fight and
the bickering over this area, but I don't know -
(Tape turned over)
De Weerd: (Inaudible). There has been no bickering on Meridian's part. We are
just trying to - we really came to the table to offer you a temporary solution so
that you can have time to longer term plan and that was our intent as certainly as
this line has come up there has been differences between the area of impact
lines, service lines and really at the offset there was more looking at service lines
for service for sewer areas that some of these lines needed to be started to be
drawn and who could service an area or a region. So, that is where some of the
misunderstanding came up, but on Meridian's end we have never been in a
bickering stance on anything. We would like to see lines drawn eventually and
as Councilman Wardle has said, ideally it's through a public participation process
Meridian City Council & Kuna City Council Special Meeting
February 28. 2006
Page 13 of27
and it appears that you have an indication because you had the public
participation process on the sewer service side - you have had some of that
input. We haven't yet. That is where we are disadvantaged coming into this
discussion. Councilman Borton?
Borton: Thank you Mayor. I guess it is a question for President Lang. Can you
tell me who was it when you had these public meetings with Kuna citizens and
the issues were being discussed and being in the county or the City of Meridian
or the area of Kuna and they were apparently weighing their options. Who was is
it from the City of Meridian, who represented the City of Meridian in those
discussions and presented Meridian's options and opportunities and how this
area could be serviced? Who was that person? Who was the person that
represented the county at the meeting to get to the citizens as to what their whole
options are?
Lang: Per a mass Town Hall meeting, there was no one from the county that
represented - the person there from Meridian was your Planning Director, Anna,
your city engineer and your attorney.
Wardle: Just for clarification, were on the agenda as a representative?
Lang: No, they were not. They were present, but they graciously stood up and
gave some input and some opinions.
De Weerd: However, they were not official presentations or they never,
Councilman Borton, I guess to answer your questions, they never officially
offered what the options were available for consideration in any of those public
forums. They were only there to answer questions if Council and the Mayor had
any of them.
Lang: Our Town Hall meetings were to get opinions of our community of what
they wanted to see.
Borton: I tend to agree with Councilman Wardle with regards to the public input
process and that was kind of the basis for the question is to see what information
is provided to the public and I understand from my perspective, Kuna Council's
position that the line has been drawn at the stand literally, figuratively and every
other sense that there is no negotiations and for what it's worth, I appreciate that
position, but then I wouldn't come to a meeting like this and make remarks
discussing regional planning of the area and we should work together or
cooperate when, in fact, it sounds like the decision that Kuna has made is there
is economic reasons, there are sewer reasons why we need this now for it to be
Lake Hazel. We need commercial development to help our tax base, which also
supports a position that this is being done by Kuna for Kuna's best interest to
help Kuna and it is a Kuna issue to take care of Kuna's citizens, which is one
point of view, but it is not a let's do what is best for this entire region point of
Meridian City Council & Kuna City Council Special Meeting
February 28, 2006
Page 14 of 27
view, which we kind of started. It was my impression that we would discuss
today or leave today's meeting that we would be moving towards that type of
progress.
Lang: On January 24th you had a meeting in which you presented this map with
these boundaries in yellow. Kuna was not invited to participate. We did have
someone there and that is how we found out.
(Speaker unknown): I will say this, when I see a map like that that shows the
proposed area of impact that cuts right along our existing city boundary, I mean
how would the City of Meridian feel if the City of Kuna came in with the proposal
for an area of impact that went along Victory Road?
Borton: To respond? The key word in that is proposed and propose is the key
when we talk about proposals of how this region could be developed and the key
word is proposal. I think Mayor De Weerd spoke well on the issue as to whether
or not a line is Columbia or Lake Hazel or wherever it is, there are proposals and
Mr. Siddoway at the start talked about a regional plan process to help with public
input to help generate what that best boundary would be.
Dowdy: But, there is no difference between that and what the City of Kuna has
said because all we have done is proposed an area of impact that goes up to
Lake Hazel. Again, at this point it's only a proposal. It is in front of the County
Commissioners for their consideration, but again, it's only a proposal by the city
as to where that area of impact should land.
De Weerd: Councilmen, I guess that line had no intent other than discussion
purposes only. That line was drawn first as a sewer service area and it wasn't a
sewer service area that was blown out of proportion. It was brought to you
Council and it had some discussion. There were some adjustments made before
it got to in front of myself and Council, but again it was just to have discussion
prior to a joint meeting with the City of Kuna. It was also discussed at our
Council meeting that those lines still were preferred and could change through a
public participation process. So, those lines were never solidly drawn. We
certainly didn't come here today saying these are our lines and we are not
moving them. We want dialogue with you and, again those were lines arbitrarily
drawn. Certainly, by no participation in the public at all and certainly they were
initiated based on sewer service areas, not an intended area of impact.
Dowdy: Well, it is listed on your map as a proposed area of impact and an
alternate area of impact. You know from the time that we very first opened this
dialogue several months ago about finding a boundary between the two cities
that we can both work with, those boundaries have continually been moving
further and further south encroaching upon the City of Kuna and it appears to me
that from that map that the alternate proposed area of impact is specifically
designed to take in one specific development from a developer who is here
Meridian City Council & Kuna City Council Special Meeting
February 28, 2006
Page 15 of27
tonight. There is no question about it that that alternate impact area goes around
his development and the property that he has that he has proposed in front of
you - may not be proposed formally or officially, but he has talked to the City of
Meridian about annexation of that property into your city. So, I think those impact
areas or those lines have not just been arbitrarily drawn, I think there is a
purpose and a plan behind those lines. I mean, just like there is a purpose and a
plan between and behind the lines that the City of Kuna has drawn.
De Weerd: Councilman, I guess those lines shifted between your meeting and
our meeting after discussion with a property owner and certainly before we saw
them and it's just like you said all of your property owners have told you what line
to draw; this property owner came and requested that adjustment just for our
Council's discussion. Nothing to draw a firm line in the sand or anything. It was
a discussion piece, it certainly had no further intent than that. So, there was no ill
or bad intentions or certainly no agenda on our Council's part in those lines.
Again, it's a piece of paper with lines drawn and that certainly we are at the table
with you today because those lines can move and that is what we hope to
accomplish through. Working together we can find something that we can all
agree on, otherwise maybe we can find a line that we can agree on and then an
area that we take through the public participation process along with the county
to find within that area where the lines are best drawn. That is another choice
that then the people who would be affected in those areas have an opportunity to
have a voice in that. So, there are options and certainly I don't think our Council
came here with any preconceived drawn line, other than a desire to have
dialogue with you all to find out where you have been and your part in your public
participation process. We haven't had the opportunity to hear from those same
affected property owners as you apparently have. As our Council has said
tonight, they feel an obligation to hear from those same people if that is the
process before they feel comfortable drawing a line. Councilman Wardle?
Wardle: Just - not to put the Commissioners on the spot here, but just a quick
question maybe - either staff or you could ask if the cities disagree what is that
(inaudible) process?
Yzaguirre: Mayors and Council members I think it's great that you are meeting.
Obviously with the fact that you are sitting around the table is encouraging. I
think from the county perspective, we were hoping that you all would reach three
conclusions tonight. This is a result of a meeting that I had with Mayor De
Weerd, Mayor Obray along with staffs a couple of weeks ago. The first is that
you would agree to support the sub-area plan and in that, secondly, you would
help finance it. It is our understanding that it is going to cost about $96,000 to do
that. Meridian has agreed to pay $40,000, the county has agreed to pay $40,000
and we have asked Kuna to contribute the other $16,000 or whatever the
balance may be. So, that would be the second condition and the third is that you
agree not to annex outside of your current areas of impact until this process is
completed. So, I think that the point we are at today is that we are hoping that
Meridian City Council & Kuna City Council Special Meeting
February 28, 2006
Page 16 of 27
you can collectively agree to that in that we think that there is a lot of savings and
planning jointly and hopefully some of the history that has gotten you to this point
can - we can all get past that and agree to a plan as we go forward. You know
every city in Ada County is updating their Comprehensive Plan. We are doing it
as a county, I don't know what that is going to cost - a million or a million and
one half dollars, but Meridian is doing it, Kuna is doing it and we are doing it with
Star, Eagle, Boise and everybody but Garden City and they have no place to
grow, specifically. So, there are some collective savings in tying together. I think
the fact that the county is updating their Comp Plan and that we have indicated a
couple of sub-areas that this is just a great opportunity to sit around the table and
share information. The finished product or conclusion at the end of the day may
be the line at Lake Hazel and it may not be. But, I think they all need to be open
minded enough at this point and time as we go forward to hear the dialogue and
go through the process and see what that conclusion looks like at the end of the
year, which I believe is what staff is proposing as far as a timeline that the sub-
area plan would be completed in December. So, my goal - I think the county's
goal is that is the road that we would like to head down. We have gone through
this process with the cities of Eagle and Star as you are very, very well aware
and we have been through the Committee of Nine process and that is not a good
process. We are looking to change that in the legislature. That is Fred's
challenge for this year and next to change the Committee of Nine process
because it just doesn't accomplish much. At the end of the day we would be
more than happy to draw the line, but we have concluded that nobody is happy
when the County Commissioners draw the line, so I challenge you to support this
process and help us all reach a conclusion or we certainly do it for you and then
just muddy the water further.
Tilman: Madame Chairman if I might make a comment and then I am going to
have to excuse myself, I have another meeting. I am just on a roll here tonight
as wanting to be a facilitator. We are not going to take sides in this issue. We
have no dog in this fight and I don't even look (inaudible------) it's not a fight. It is
all about a vision. It is all about how we plan, not only for cities but for this whole
region and I guess our role in understanding the dilemma that we are finding all
of ourselves collectively is we thought that we could playa role in trying to help
facilitate a solution. The bottom line that is what we are ultimately, one way or
the other all three of us collectively are going to have to come up with a solution
and there is an easy way to do it, but it is not easy and that is to sit down and to
has this thing out between the two entities and we would offer ours as a facilitator
in that process. That is probably the easiest, best way to do this is for us to sit
down in a way to come up and figure out where you are going to draw the line at.
If that doesn't work, then the statutes are very clear of the process that we would
have to use to help alleviate this dilemma if it is not resolved through what I
would call a friendly planning session that hopefully could get the job done. So, I
guess that is our challenge, all of us is try to figure out how we come up with a
plan that we can all work with and agree upon as far as everybody's interests are
going to be met, even if it is 90 percent. I am hoping that that will maybe help us
Meridian City Council & Kuna City Council Special Meeting
February 28, 2006
Page 17 of 27
get to something we can all walk away and feel good about and long term,
though, the benefit has to be to the citizens of this county as far as having it
planned well. We all understand what happens if you don't do good planning.
So, with the growth that is happening we have got to step up to the plate and
figure out to accomplish that. I have one question, although I think I asked this
when we met with Kuna before. The western boundary to your proposed area of
impact, was that to go to the county line? Most of the plats that I have seen and
the maps that I have seen it does not and I would just encourage you if you are
going to go through the trouble of doing all of this, probably need to sit here and
take it to the western - or the county line. But, certainly I think our role is as Rick
has pointed out, we truly see ourselves as being hopefully a facilitator in the
process. We are willing to step up to the plate, be a player and provide
resources, staff time, whatever it is going to take to help bring everybody to a
solution. Ultimately, one way or the other either you folks can work together with
our help as a facilitator to find a solution or you can use the statutes and we will
come to a solution. Having been there and done that, I hope we don't have to do
that because it really ultimately does not end up as a solution. With that, I
apologize I am going to have to leave.
De Weerd: Thank you Commissioner Tilman, I appreciate your time. Any other
comments or -- ?
Obray: I would like to tell you Commissioner Yzaguirre that at the last meeting I
did promise that I would take the funding for the multi-unit (inaudible)
jurisdictional study back to the City Council. I wasn't there then, but I just asked
Jeff and they did consider that, but they wanted to know how this meeting turned
out before they ruled on whether they would fund that, so you know I am not
saying that Kuna won't participate, but I am sure that they are not going to
decided that here today without going back and reviewing the situation and going
back to Council. So, that is where we are with that and I just want both of you to
know that I did what I said I was going to do as far as that part of the plan and it
didn't get brushed under the carpet.
Lang: In closing, I just want to say that we want to be good neighbors. We want
to work together. Yes, planning is very important, but we also need to remember
that planning does not mean that developers dictate and we feel in Kuna that
what has started this little tug-of-wars should we say was from one particular
development and we would hate to see that this one cause such a rift between
the two communities. We do have great respect for the City of Meridian, but we
also have our own selves that we need to think about. We never want to step on
anyone's toes. Planning is the key for everything and planning is the future. If
we don't plan, we won't be happy with what we have. We do want to work
together and plan. Let's plan our selves and then we can deal with the
developing. Let's not let the developers say hey we want this and then we go
and do that. We need to have a plan and then we need to set it so we can tell
them what our plan is, not what they think our plan should be.
Meridian City Council & Kuna City Council Special Meeting
February 28, 2006
Page 18 of 27
De Weerd: Councilman Lang, I guess our line has been down at Columbia since
the early '90's. No developer set that line. So, that line was set by the former
Councils and I don't know how they set it, but I am sure it wasn't based on any
particular majority land owner out there.
Lang: According to this map, the majority of that property was south of
Columbia.
De Weerd: Again, Councilman, that was a discussion that Council had just like
you have this historical document in front of you with the areas. It was only a
discussion map and that was all.
Lang: But we feel that this map was what caused the whole up-rise. But that is
our opinion because we weren't there, we weren't asked to participate and when
we see this and we know that this developer had come to us previously -
Wardle: So, I guess I have - just a point of clarification, after hearing information
from the county on what the process would be, would you be willing to go back to
the table or utilize the county as a facilitator to have those additional
discussions?
Dowdy: I will speak on that. I would be willing to participate on a study. I would
be willing to spend the money. What I would not be willing to do would be to stop
the annexations that number one all of those yellow areas we already have
applications for annexations into our city. You know there is - what you are
asking us to do is to cut our throats on the funding mechanism that we are trying
to use to build our new sewer plant. The bottom line is that we need a new
sewer plant and putting it off until the planning is done in December or as these
things go, January or February of the following year, just further exacerbates our
sewer situation, which we are running out of capacity. We only have so much
capacity left. It will only get us through for so long. If we all (inaudible) with what
- with building this plant on the timeline that we have, then there will not be a
lapse in sewer service in the City of Kuna. If we delay it any longer, then there
will be a lapse in sewer service and Kuna will be back into a moratorium situation
and that is not a position that this - that I will want to put the City of Kuna in. So,
at this point I would not be willing to say that we would stop the annexations in
that area. As long as we have people who are willing - you know we are not
pushing our way into that area. As long as we have people who are coming to
us, asking to be a part of the City of Kuna, asking to be annexed, asking to
participate in a solution and if monetary solution to help Kuna solve it's sewer
problem, then my intention and the Council's would be to go to court with that
plan on that timeline that we have set so that we can keep our sewer
serviceability open for our city. Otherwise, we are going to be in a bad situation.
We have had our backs against the wall ever since we took over several years
ago on this Council and we are trying to get out of that hole and delay will do
Meridian City Council & Kuna City Council Special Meeting
February 28, 2006
Page 19 of 27
nothing but exacerbate our problem. I cannot agree, of course I am one voice on
the Council, but I can't agree to that kind of a condition, which would basically in
the long run or in a short term timeframe, put the City of Kuna in jeopardy as far
as development is concerned.
Wardle: Council, while you are here, whether you agree or not, would like to
reiterate at least my personal preference to continue with the funding with the
county to reopen dialogue to utilize county staff and elected officials as a
facilitator to discuss with our City Council taking annexation outside of our area of
impact off the table and to attempt to be good partners. So, that would be my
preference is to renew that effort on behalf of the City of Meridian.
De Weerd: Councilman Wardle I would hope that and with the consideration of
Kuna and the county that that would also be inclusive of public comments. A
special workshop like this has not invited public comment and I think where
Meridian is disadvantaged is we had not heard the same things as Kuna has. At
least that kind of opportunity would also present itself for the public to comment
as well. In front of both Kuna City Council and the Meridian City Council as well
(inaudible) commissioners so that everyone is hearing the same thing. Would
that be part of it, Mr. Wardle?
Wardle: Again, my preference would be for us to be able to solve this problem
with the cities and not to have to utilize an additional county process. That would
be my preference.
Stroebel: When and where would you like to set up the first public hearing for
joint cities?
(Inaudible discussion)
Canning: Madame Mayor and Sir Mayor and members of the Council this scope
of work that was originally discussed as a joint effort also and Ms. Sanders was
involved with that one was just a public participation and one of the first things we
talked about was having an open house type forum to hear the views and
concerns of the citizens that were smaller property owners to set up a database,
invite them personally and to also have a separate one for the larger property
owners because they have very different concerns. We have talked about
amended scopes as time has gone on to include some land use issues as well,
but we talked about stakeholder interviews with members of the Kuna Council
and members of the Meridian Council, select business owners or Chamber of
Commerce persons. -
(Inaudible discussion)
Canning: School districts - so all the districts - I think we forgot libraries, but we
certainly could include them, so the first efforts for really reaching out to
Meridian City Council & Kuna City Council Special Meeting
February 28. 2006
Page 20 of 27
interested property owners and stakeholders and then developing summaries
from that to take forward to Council. Generally, there is some background and
draft documents that are done before these are taken to the Council for their
decisions as you know. So, we hadn't talked about a timeline before - combined
Council's yet. We were trying to target for a December 15th submittal - a draft
that was complete enough to submit by December 15th for the Meridian cutoff
date. We have two cutoff dates for Comprehensive Plan Amendments, one is in
June and one is in December and that is why that December end of the year date
has been talked about. So, that would get it up to our Planning and Zoning
Commission in February and up to Council in March or so. That is what we had
talked about, just in general. So far it is not set in stone - we have been waiting
to kind of hear some of this discussion before we move forward with a real
scope.
De Weerd: Council I guess there is one other thing that our staff was hoping to
have better direction on and that is our engineering staff and that is they are still
ready to provide temporary or long term sewer, but they just would like to have
an answer and I think we have heard the answer tonight that it's thank you, but
you would like to move forward with your plans and all our staff needs to know is
that the direction that you are choosing because we do have an area to plan and
sewer and so we do need to move forward with our own plans. We have been
planning it to serve a region and if we need to plan it differently they would like to
have your direction and we don't expect a decision tonight, just within the next
month, if you could give us some indication of if you would like to utilize
Meridian's offer for temporary service until you can long term plan and if a
regional facility is out of the question, we just need to move forward with our own
planning as well for sewering the area that we have committed to. So, if we
could hear back from you by the end of March in that realm, if that is reasonable,
we would like to move forward on that.
Obray: Mayor, I can tell you first of all when your city engineering or Public
Works Director comes to a City Council meeting, we discussed this (inaudible)
and my suggestion to them that the City of Kuna would definitely be interested in
short term service up to five years. If you built the new plant, it should help the
City of Meridian pay for some of the improvements that they are not utilizing at
the time, it would also get the burden off the City of Kuna's map to build a plant in
a rush. That proposal was made and it seemed to be accepted, but then after
that it was conditioned upon controlling 50 percent of (inaudible--) drainage. If
your proposal is to just give us interim service treatment service for our sewage
the answer is yes. If it is conditioned, the answer is no. I can answer your
question today. That is your answer. The only thing the city needs to know is if
you want us to do that, if we still need a definite number that stretches the length
of what you are willing to give us, so that we can take that back and analyze what
it does to our constituents. So, that is the answer we need from you, which I
have been asking for for six months. Okay? The other answer - a joint facility in
my opinion at this time is not very likely, but I think that both Councils during the
Meridian City Council & Kuna City Council Special Meeting
February 28, 2006
Page 21 of 27
next six months will determine that by what happens in this planning process.
But, when Councilman Trina asked what the time tables (inaudible---) get a year
after you just heard that we are in desperate need of sewer and a year is one
third of the time that we hoped to have the plant built - not realistic and the fact is
that you admitted that you are not far along in the planning as we are and you
are not ready to make the decisions, but that is also not our problem. We have
faced this issue. We are tired of facing this issue. We have to do something. I
am not wanting to fight with Meridian, by all means, in fact, when I first took office
you and I had this very same conversation and we agreed then that Lake Hazel
was a good boundary and it is kind of funny how all of a sudden that that has
changed and we had that conversation at least twice and then afterwards I asked
you several times to have a meeting and let's do something about this and set it
in stone and you ignored me until the issue becomes between Star and Eagle
and now all of sudden it has become issues. You know, it isn't like I haven't tried
and all (inaudible) to myself, being a new Mayor and new in politics I have tried,
but it has not been very successful. But, I am still wanting to come up to the
plate and I think all the Councilmen here will agree, we need interim service. It
would take a real burden, not that we can't do it, but it would sure take a real
burden off of us. We aren't willing to pay the price of conditions.
De Weerd: Well, Mayor, I am not going to play the he said, she said game. But,
(inaudible) or Brad, did you hear Mayor Obray's question?
(Inaudible discussion)
De Weerd: We thought we had provided all the information. We have given all
your engineers all the numbers that you had given to us. We have answered
anything in writing that you have given us and so if we missed a question,
apparently we had not received that in any form that anyone comprehended.
Lang: The declining balance report?
De Weerd: The declining balance report? Do we have that? Yes, please. If you
will come up here - because we like to get everything on public record.
Watson: Is this close enough? You can hear (inaudible)? Madame Mayor, Mr.
Mayor, Council members, they do keep a declining balance report. It's a
measure of how many sewer hookups they have left. We don't. We have a
permit that tells us exactly how much capacity we have. I keep an informal one.
It is not something that I have to submit to DEQ. No one has asked me that.
Before I did have a conversation on the phone at one time with Mr. (inaudible)
and he had mentioned that and I was unfamiliar with the term.
Obray: From my part, I would just like to thank Meridian for hosting this meeting
and for feeding us all and even though it is tense, I have hopes (inaudible----).
We are close cities and we need to be allies, not enemies and as growth
Meridian City Council & Kuna City Council Special Meeting
February 28, 2006
Page 22 of 27
continues to grow no matter what either one of us cities do, (inaudible---) city
boundaries will be touching each other at some point and time and so will all the
other issues and we understand that. Elected officials, I think realize probably for
the first time what is going to happen in our valley in the next 50 years. It is
pretty scary, but none of us - with that I do want to sincerely thank you and I
think I could speak for the Council that I can tell the County Commissioners that I
will let them know after the next Council meeting if we (inaudible) participate in a
joint meeting (inaudible---).
De Weerd: Is there any continuity by the county or Anna on that time frame? I
think what Council member Stroebel had asked was a little bit different than what
Anna's response was. We can meet jointly and have public comment and that
sort of thing without having a Comprehensive Plan delivered to the county. I
think these were two different questions and so is there--?
Yisaquire: Madame Mayor if I could just -
De Weerd: Yes, Commissioner.
Yisaquire: (Inaudible---) somebody that could speak to what the process would
be for the sub-area plan if we all agree to do that. Maybe that would be helpful.
Pete?
Friedman: Mayors, Commissioners, Council members to say the devil is in the
details probably an understatement. The process that we were looking at that we
talked about is doing one that builds upon public participation and the
stakeholders meeting that Anna mentioned it involves community workshops. It
involves a detailed study of those existing conditions, it also involves what we call
a (inaudible----) some (inaudible---) with the public and the landowners out there
to start identifying some alternatives, land use alternatives with the goal of
coming up with a common land use base that each city can extract for their own
planning in future zoning and annexation purposes. Other elements of that plan
that (inaudible-----) additional land use transportation, identify transportation
corridors, public facilities, (inaudible) schools and fire districts (inaudible----), not
precisely nailed down school sites, but identifying needs specific to geographical
areas, parks (inaudible-----). Again, the timing was something that we (inaudible)
to discuss further in terms of both the City of Meridian's timelines on Camp Plan
amendments (inaudible----). We don't have ours specifically identified and we
are constrained by the twice a year requirement established (inaudible---).
De Weerd: But, you can separate a process that the end result and those pieces
and components, while in the interim working to maybe meet Kuna's need to
have a more solid line that can be drawn that people feel more comfortable with
that there is at least an opportunity for our Council to hear from the affected
residents and people out in that area that has been afforded to Kuna.
Meridian City Council & Kuna City Council Special Meeting
February 28, 2006
Page 23 of 27
Canning: Madame Mayor at the risk of seeming contrary, I think that one of my
concerns is I think the general public is very confused at this point. Kuna is
working on planning and the county is working on the plan, now Meridian is
talking about working with all three of them. I think that if you try and get two
different separate public involvement processes going at the same time, it is
going to be very difficult for them to understand how those relate. I guess I would
- if the Council's don't want to do the kind of in the neighborhood type of
discussions with those property owners we could structure it so that it's more of a
public hearing process and still work to get representation there, but I think
confusing the two at this point or trying to do both of them at the same time will
be very confusing and maybe counter-productive. That is why I gave the
(inaudible) I suppose. I forgot to explain some of that when I (inaudible), but that
was my concern and my reaction to having a joint hearing to just talk about which
community do you identify.
Bird: Madame Mayor.
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I think Councilwoman Stroebel wanted to set up the public hearings and I
feel the same way. I want to hear people come up and talk. They had one. We
had one. Well, we had four or five people and yeah, they are going to tell us that
they wanted to be in Meridian and those people are going to tell them they want
to be in Kuna. Let's get them while we are all sitting together and hear the pros
and cons and at that point we can get the pros and cons. These workshops, you
have 500 hundred workshops and you are going to have the same ten people
there with the same ten responses. So, I would like to see between the two
Councils and the two Mayors a public hearing with staff and with Commissioners,
however, Mr. Yzaguirre wants to have his staff or something there, if they have
any questions we can answer it right there on the spot. But, you have people
come up face to face and tell us what they think. That is my opinion.
Canning: If that is the way the Council's would like to go, (inaudible) Pete
Friedman, for the record that is who that was from the Ada County Development
Services. He and I can work on - we haven't solidified this scope in any means
or form at this point. So, we can work on structuring that scope to be more of a
kind of a formal hearing process because things are a little further along, I think,
with the City of Kuna than we knew about before hand. So, we can work at a
different scope and bring that back (inaudible) collectively or individually or
however we need to have that scope agreed upon before (inaudible----).
Bird: Madame Mayor.
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Meridian City Council & Kuna City Council Special Meeting
February 28, 2006
Page 24 of 27
Bird: If you are going to do that, Anna, I think you ought to include Kuna planning
or whoever that is, whoever is representing Kuna.
Canning: Diana Sanders has been involved with the first scope and we really
haven't - we only have got half of a revised scope and so she was involved with
the first scope. And she was involved with the consultant selection, which we do
have a consultant selected. We just are changing with scope on that.
De Weerd: I guess I would ask Brad to come up one more time. I know he loves
to be public. A lingering question that Mayor Obray had on the temporary lift
station or the temporary solution that we are converting is that had no
contingencies, it was more the long term facility and who (inaudible) to serve so
we could justify that to our rate payers because we were funding the whole plan
and not asking for any participation for Kuna. So, as I understand when we said
we needed to make a business decision on a long term facility that we needed to
be serving 50 percent of the people in that drainage area in order to justify that to
our rate payers to fund the facility 100 percent. So, we do not have any kind of
terms or conditions on a temporary facility at this point do we Brad?
Watson: Madame Mayor, Mr. Mayor that was my impression of the discussion, it
was the (inaudible-----). If we build a plan it was less than 50 percent or
substantially less than 50 percent. I am not sure that we could justify that in a
business sense to our rate payers that we should (inaudible) on that project. In
terms of temporary service I think purely engineering, no planning or politics we
would like to kind of know what the ultimate service areas and splits are so we
could look at some phasing timelines, but in terms of just pure temporary service,
short term, three to five years I don't think that that was part of my impression.
De Weerd: Did that help clarify it?
Obray: No, it makes it more confusing. What you have been trying to tell Kuna
all night is planning, but yet I know very well that you are in a contract or at least
about to enter into a contract for design and build and that has to be based on
service area, so you have already taken into account the service area that you
are proposing and put it in the plan to finance the plant and now you are coming
back on secondhand and telling Kuna we want to plan for that area. All Kuna
really wants to know is what you want and every time we talk to you, I get a
different answer and what really is the truth? Do you have a plant that you are
proposing? If you are going to fund it, do you have funding for it? What area of
impact do you have to fund that on a permanent basis - you know the City of
Kuna just wants to know what your plans are, but what we were told is you were
going to build a plant and you have room to facilitate -
(Tape turned over)
Obray: Again, am I the only one that is confused?
Meridian City Council & Kuna City Council Special Meeting
February 28, 2006
Page 25 of 27
De Weerd: We have two options. One is we can offer short term sewer solution
to you and then we will provide it through our system, as I understand it and I am
not an engineer and I don't want to be. So, please correct me if I am wrong.
That has a period where it has to expire. So, then we can use that capacity to
serve the other parts of our community that will develop after Eagle Way, it will
then be taken up through serving that area. Long term, if you wanted us to
provide the regional sewer system, long term, so that we would serve Mason
Drain Area, yes we would need to know if you are planning for us to be that long
term solution because then we have to plan even our temporary a little bit
different. That is where I really have to defer to Brad because it does have
different implications to us as well.
Obray: I think from a Kuna's standpoint and I am not an engineer either and
neither do I want to be one, but the fact is if we would know that service would be
available at some cost to us, short term only, we could accept that and we could
debate on where do we go with the actual site to site new water treatment plant
and if we are going to be involved in it as two municipalities or a single
municipality to come after we decide about the planning effort. At this point, it is
too early - if we can't at least get passed what we are doing today, then
obviously we don't want to (inaudible) a long range agreement that puts new
elected officials in our seat that we (inaudible) and we have made them commit
to something that even us at this point can't reasonably be or use good judgment
or come to a consensus. Yes, we want short term service. Yes, we are willing to
pay for it and no we don't want contingencies and no we don't want long range
service at this point, but we don't want to exclude that.
De Weerd: Do you have (inaudible), Brad?
Watson: Madame Mayor, Mr. Mayor as I have said for months and months, if
there is specific information and answers you want, if I could get those questions
or requests for information in writing, so I know of exactly what it is we -- my staff
and I have provided costs and studies and rates and everything that we have
been asked for so I apologize if we haven't gotten to where you need us to be,
but I have really tried. I think there (inaudible) outstanding issues, please give
them to me.
Obray: I am sure they are just miscommunication on both sides. I will share half
of that burden with you.
De Weerd: Mayor, I think the only thing is we can't do it indefinitely. We don't
want -- if you only need this as your short term solution, so we will need the only
contingencies I can see that the city would have the places because what you
use will be then replaced by serving another part of our future growth. So, we
would need at least an expiration date of what that short term solution would be.
So, I think that that would be pretty much our only contingencies, but that
certainly what our staffs and our legal staff would have to come up with and if you
Meridian City Council & Kuna City Council Special Meeting
February 28, 2006
Page 26 of 27
need anything in addition to what we have already provided, you and your staff
certainly we would appreciate that in writing so that we know exactly what we still
look as pending on our part that you need to make a good decision.
Obray: To follow up with that, you know short term service is what we are asking
for. Five years is a minimum to help us. If it is a three year thing, we can
probably have our plant built and we would be forced to do the same hurried
process. So, if we can't come up with an agreement for short term service of five
years and then you can put a new language in there after that upon mutual
agreement to extend it or whatever, that would be adequate, but as far as your
request for written documentation, I think probably we should have started after
that and maybe part of that is me trying to hurry the process up too much in
saying you know call them up, see what they are willing to do and so yeah, I
totally agree again.
Dowdy: Well, on another point, you know rather than - you know there is a lot of
talk about building out and Kuna having a plant in this area and Meridian having
a plant in this area - you know Kuna is not opposed to providing service to the
City of Meridian to add our plant in that location in the future, if that you know is
something that you are interested in.
De Weerd: I think what we would be bringing into even a temporary service for
five years would be something we can long term plan our area. That is certainly
something that our engineering staff would have to answer, but perhaps our
staffs could get together in the next week or so, start ironing out any remaining
questions and if we can get any remaining questions in writing, so we can
respond in writing. Any agreements that need to be started to be drafted and in
light of a temporary solution at least maybe our attorneys can get together and
start closing some languages. There certainly are partnerships with Boise and
the Cities of Eagle and Garden City that show original solutions do work. If you
don't want to go down that route, that is certainly your choice. We will not control
your growth, your destiny or your identity and we don't want to. We want to be -
our community would want you to be a community that you identify and reflects
your values and I think that has been a goal for Blue Print for Good Growth for all
of the long term planning efforts that have been going on in this community. That
is one thing that has been said loud and clear. All of us want to be in control of
who we are, how we grow and none of that would be controlled through our
partnership. So, I guess with that said, if there is - Councilman Wardle?
Wardle: Thank you Madame Mayor. We seem to be moving more into a
technical, engineering services sort of area and I just want to wrap up with
renewing the City of Meridian's efforts to plan, to utilize the county and to see
how far we can get within our own jurisdictions before moving to another
process.
Meridian City Council & Kuna City Council Special Meeting
February 28, 2006
Page 27 of 27
Stroebel: I would like to again reiterate the fact that I would like clarification on
what that means. Right now I just hear a whole bunch of talk. We are not setting
any dates. We are going to be three years down the road, still in the planning
process and right now I am asking when can we set an initial meeting? You say
you want public input. Let's decide when that could be because we can't start a
ball rolling, it is not going to happen.
Wardle: The Planning staff is telling me they can have a scope to the City
Council's within 30 days of (inaudible-----), how fast that process would be
completed, what the steps would be and maybe even faster than the 30 days,
right?
Stroebel: Okay - a scope and that will give me a layout of timeframe and when
those will actually begin the planning process.
De Weerd: Does that work with the county as well? (Inaudible----). Does that
work? So, Council are we clear at where we are going at this point (inaudible--)?
Thank you for coming. I would entertain a motion to adjourn.
Wardle: So moved.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Would you like to adjourn your meeting?
Obray: We will.
De Weerd: All those in favor for adjournment.
ALL AYES. MOTION CARRIED.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 6:50 P.M.
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
APPROVED:
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DATE APPROVED
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