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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2022-03-01 Work Session Item#1. Meridian City Council Work Session March 1, 2022. A Meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 4:30 p.m., Tuesday, March 1, 2022, by Mayor Robert Simison. Members Present: Robert Simison, Joe Borton, Luke Cavener, Treg Bernt, Brad Hoaglun and Liz Strader. Members Absent: Jessica Perreault. Also present: Chris Johnson, Bill Nary, Alan Tiefenbach, Tracy Basterrechea, Kris Blume and Dean Willis. ROLL-CALL ATTENDANCE Liz Strader _X_ Joe Borton (4:56 p.m.) _X_ Brad Hoaglun _X_Treg Bernt Jessica Perreault _X Luke Cavener _X_ Mayor Robert E. Simison Simison: Council, we will call the meeting to order. For the record it is March 1 st, 2022, at 4:32 p.m. We will begin this City Council work session with roll call attendance. ADOPTION OF AGENDA Simison: Next item is adoption of the agenda. Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Hoaglun. Hoaglun: I move adoption of the agenda as published. Cavener: Second the motion. Simison: I have a motion and a second to adopt the agenda as published. Is there any discussion? If not, all in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay? The ayes have it and the agenda is adopted. MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. TWO ABSENT. CONSENT AGENDA [Action Item] 1. Approve Minutes of the February 15, 2022 City Council Work Session Page 4 Meridian City Council Work Session Item#1. March 1,2022 Page 2 of 19 2. Approve Minutes of the February 15, 2022 City Council Regular Meeting 3. Apex Southeast Subdivision No. 2 Sanitary Sewer Easement 4. Future State Highway 16 Crossing Water Main Easement 5. Final Plat for Meridian Movado Village Subdivision (FP-2022-0002) by Breckon Land Design, Located on the South Side of E. Overland Rd. Between S. Eagle Rd. and S. Cloverdale Rd. 6. Final Order for Prescott Ridge No. 1 (FP-2021-0053) by KM Engineering, LLP, Generally Located 1/3 Mile South of W. Chinden Blvd., on the East Side of N. McDermott Rd. 7. Memorandum of Agreement Between Meridian Library District and City Of Meridian for Design and Installation of Mural Simison: Next up is the Consent Agenda. Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Hoaglun. Hoaglun: I move approval of the Consent Agenda and for the Mayor to sign and Clerk to attest. Cavener: Second. Simison: I have a motion and a second to approve the Consent Agenda. Is there any discussion? If not, all in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay? The ayes have it and the Consent Agenda is agreed to. MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. TWO ABSENT. ITEMS MOVED FROM THE CONSENT AGENDA [Action Item] Simison: There were no items moved from the Consent Agenda. DEPARTMENT / COMMISSION REPORTS [Action Item] 8. License Agreement Between the City of Meridian and Concept Investments, LLP for Landscape Improvements and Maintenance Page 5 Meridian City Council Work Session Item#1. March 1,2022 Page 3 of 19 Simison: So, we will move on to Item No. 8 under Department/Commission Reports. First item up is a license agreement between the City of Meridian and Concept Investments, LLP, and I will turn this over to Mr. Barton. Barton: Good afternoon, Mayor and Council Members. In October of 2021 we were here in front of you discussing a project -- possible project to beautify one of the remnant parcels on Meridian Road. This idea was brought to us, so we kind of looked into it and talked to the owner and they were receptive of that, so -- and Council gave us direction to -- to trudge forward on this and so that's what we did. Legal Department prepared a license agreement and we presented that to the owner. We finally got it back on January 14th and so we are bringing that to you this evening for approval. Simison: Thank you. Council, questions for staff? Maybe one, Mike, just for the record. What do we intend on doing with the property? Barton: Yeah. So, that -- that leads us into the next item. If you want to take them both at the same time I can just keep right on going. Simison: Yes. 9. Parks and Recreation Department: Fiscal Year 2022 Budget Amendment in the Amount of $45,000.00 for Meridian Road Island Beautification Barton: So, at that time when we talked about this project it was --the cost was discussed and, then, we also discussed on the timing and that we could run it through the budget process and if that was the case, then, we -- we couldn't actually execute the project until the spring of '23, whereas if we brought forward a budget amendment that we could do the project this spring and kind of lock in the cost that we -- the costs that we received at that time. So, Council's direction was to bring back not only the license agreement, but a budget -- budget amendment of 45,000 dollars. So, that's what we are doing and I will answer any questions you have. Simison: And this will just be primarily for grass? Barton: Correct. Yeah. Simison: Council, any additional questions for staff? Cavener: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Cavener. Cavener: Mr. Nary, I assume you want us to approve the agreement and, then, the budget amendment in two separate actions? Page 6 Meridian City Council Work Session Item#1. March 1,2022 Page 4 of 19 Nary: Yes. Cavener: All right. Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Cavener. Cavener: I move we approve the license agreement between the City of Meridian and Concept Investments, LLP, for landscape improvements and maintenance. Bernt: Second the motion. Simison: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 8. Is there any discussion? If not, all in favor to signify by saying aye. Opposed nay? The ayes have it and the agreement is agreed to. MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. TWO ABSENT. Cavener: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilmen Cavener. Cavener: I move that we approve a fiscal year '22 budget amendment in the amount of 45,000 dollars for Meridian Road island beautification. Hoaglun: Second the motion. Simison: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 9. Is there any discussion? If not, Clerk will call the roll. Roll call: Borton, absent; Cavener, yea; Bernt, yea; Perreault, absent; Hoaglun, yea; Strader, yea. Simison: All ayes and the item is agreed to. MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. TWO ABSENT. Simison: Thank you, Mike. Barton: We are on it. 10. Community Development: Ustick Road Center Median Options Between Ten Mile Road and Linder Road Simison: Next item up is Item 10, Community Development Ustick Road central median options. I will turn this over to Mr. Hood. Page 7 Meridian City Council Work Session Item#1. March 1,2022 Page 5 of 19 Hood: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council. A little theme here this afternoon. We are going to talk about beautification of another corridor in the center of the road on Ustick. So, there are some options. Let me provide a little bit of background information. Parametrix was contracted with Ada County Highway District this last year and completed a concept study for the first mile of Ustick roadway that's up for widening west of Linder Road, so between Linder and Ten Mile. Part of that concept, the preferred alternative from that concept includes widening Ustick from two lanes to -- one in each direction to two lanes in each direction with the center median. Where there isn't a center median so that left-hand turns can be made, ACHD is designing in some 11 foot wide concrete medians. They will also be putting in some -- a vertical barrier. So, wrought iron fencing or something similar, probably at 36 inches, to provide some vertical obstruction. So, the medians are being included really largely -- solely for transportation related purposes. If they didn't put something in the center median they would likely have to sign the speed limit of the corridor at 45 or 50 miles an hour, because it would just be -- feel like a race track straight and not a lot of access points to conflict with somebody going, again, in excess of 35 or 40 miles an hour. So, they are putting in a center median and they are trying to make it feel like you should drive slower. So, there is a lot of psychology in the -- in the transportation engineering practice. So, part of the discussion was if-- if the city chooses to do nothing we will basically get concrete or asphalt -- likely concrete center median with, again, some vertical barriers, split rail or -- or a wrought iron fence type of a thing to provide that vertical relief and obstruction. What I thought I would take to you -- and this is similar to Miranda Carson last year had a similar request on a quarter -- and I can't remember if it was Lake Hazel or Eagle, but in that area to look at one of those corridors to potentially landscape the center median instead. This is a largely residential part of our community. Personal opinion it would -- it would look a lot nicer, it would -- it would look more premier to landscape this, put a little bit of life in there, it wouldn't be so sterile. There is landscaping on the sides on most all of the subdivisions that are there. Bridgetower is a large subdivision that's on the north side in this mile segment. A Long story short, this -- I'm here asking you if you would like to invest in the corridor, invest in some landscaping and -- and, really, the long term maintenance of that. Let me run you through the corridor a little bit. This is also included in the memo that I prepared, but I think it will probably show up a little bit better on your screens than on eight and half by 11. So, this is starting on the western boundary of the project at Ten Mile Road. So, I'm going to go from west to east kind of in the concept. Can everybody see that? Yeah. It looks like it's on the screen. Make sure the full pages are --just as a quick aside, one of the things we are talking with them as well is the ability to make a U-turn at this location, because you put those center medians in, if you miss your turn there is really not a whole lot of opportunity to -- to go back and those center medians, again, prohibit left turns in certain locations. So, this is the concept level. It isn't the ultimate design. That's -- that's what we are getting ready to do is take that concept design that Parametrix did and TO Engineers is actually working with the -- with the highway district on -- on designing this project for construction. So, likely the ability to make a U-turn at this intersection. So, this segment -- sorry. I got to move pictures around. There is one smaller median in this area. In total there are six different segments of these medians, approximately 1,900 linear feet. So, again, 11 feet wide by 19 feet in length in six different segments. This is one of the smaller segments. I think it will be a little bit more evident in the next slide. Page 8 Meridian City Council Work Session Item#1. March 1,2022 Page 6 of 19 There is a county parcel right here that still has full access, so that's one of the reasons this median can extend further is there is that county parcel where full access needs to be maintained, at least in the interim. You can see their driveway here. So, these -- on the western side ideally you would have a longer run of median here, but to preserve the access points for these two right now, anyways, it's being designed with those three smaller segment medians that could potentially be landscaped. There is a new traffic signal. Again, sort of an aside, not necessarily before you today, but they will be signalizing the Towerbridge Way intersection that goes into Bridgetower. This is the collector roadway that feeds into the Bridgetower project. This median isn't subject to the -- the landscaping I'm talking to you about. There would be -- this would be a refuge area that if someone weren't able to make the full crossing they could pause here and do a two phase crossing as a pedestrian to get all the way across the street. So, most of the pedestrians would likely cross in this location. But, again, a signal as part of the project. And, then, we do get some of the larger runs of the medians. So, again, we have done a pretty good job. I think the Five Mile Creek helps with that. Not too many bridges for access points, but only one access point here. So, there is really not a reason to have this center turn lane, no one is turning left or right here because there is nowhere to turn to. Two longer turns here. Two longer medians here. And, then, where two of -- the recently improved intersection at Linder Road. So, the scope of this project would tie into the work that was done -- again, the existing Linder-Ustick intersection as it's -- in its ultimate configuration. So, that -- let's -- let's end here. Those longer medians I think were in the neighborhood of six to seven hundred feet. So pretty substantial. And, again, the three on the -- on the west were substantially smaller. So, depending on -- on the level of design and the materials installed -- I did some --some rough estimates with Mike, but just kind of made some assumptions that if we -- if we were to put in some landscaping, with some trees, some shrubs, some rock mulch with an irrigation system, would cost around 75 dollars per linear foot or approximately 150,000 dollars for this mile segment. That's just to design and install -- improve this with something other than that hardscaping I was talking about. Further annual maintenance costs are estimated about 5,000 dollars. I would pause and just say that 150 number is a pretty rough estimate. You know, today's dollars, with today's -- you know. And this project wouldn't -- this -- this isn't scheduled to be constructed until 2025. So, they are designing it this year, would do right of way next year, and, then, constructed in 2025. So, who knows how much a tree is going to cost in a couple three years or the shrubs or the irrigation or the labor to install those things. But, again, in today's dollars that's a pretty-- pretty good estimate anyways. And same with maintenance. Who knows what our maintenance contract looks like. We can control some of that, but we would hope to design -- design something that is fairly low maintenance and that's actually part of-- I'm jumping ahead a little bit. I did talk about this with our transportation commission. Punch line. They are generally supportive of this, but they do want to do something that is virtually no maintenance or very low maintenance in -- in a design. That is ultimately their recommendation to you. But we would have to go out to bid. I will also note here -- typically ACHD does require a partner agency. So, the city, an urban renewal agency, and other government-related partner to pay for the design and the installation costs. In this scenario I'm pretty confident -- I don't want to jinx us, but I'm pretty confident I can convince them, because they are putting these medians in for a transportation need, they have to have these in there to, again, Page 9 Meridian City Council Work Session Item#1. March 1,2022 Page 7 of 19 sign the corridor to an ideal speed limit for them in a residential district on an arterial. Basically it's a wash for them. They are going to have to -- if they hardscape this in concrete they are going to be spending roughly 150,000 dollars anyways. So, instead of spending that money on concrete, put it towards the installation -- the design and installation of the irrigation and a couple trees and shrubs, if the city is willing to maintain it. I know they don't want to maintain it. So, it's not a full package deal. They aren't -- if -- if we can convince them to put in this material we still have to at least commit to the maintenance, if not the design, installation, and the maintenance. So, there is kind of a --the question to you, ultimately, is are we interested in partnering with the highway district and does that change anything? Are we only willing to partner with ACHD if they are willing to -- to put in landscape materials or if worst case, are we willing to design, install, and maintain the landscape materials here. So, that's one of the questions and I guess one -- the main question. Just a little bit more context. So, from staff's perspective -- and -- and this is part of our presentation to the transportation commission as well. I see a real opportunity here, kind of a bigger picture zooming back out, if you look at State Highway 16 coming in. There is going to be an interchange there and anyone getting off at Ustick that wants to come into Meridian, I think there is an opportunity. I'm not asking you to commit future councils to doing something similar in the next two miles to the county line, but there is an opportunity I think in this corridor to have a boulevard feel, welcome to Meridian, and -- and set this corridor out as something special in our community. You know, Ustick back to the east -- the next mile to the east was recently widened and we didn't put medians in there. I think there is even -- even further we could potentially even retrofit that corridor and do something similar, but which brings you to Meridian Road and could have a four mile of a major arterial -- Ustick Road is a major thoroughfare that kind of sets us apart. Again, I will use the premiere word again potentially. Again, I'm not having you commit to that, but I -- there is some vision involved in this conversation. This isn't just a one-off mile segment where we put some medians in, there would be some level of understanding that we would at least have a conversation about the next mile to the -- to the west and, then, the third mile to the west, which gets us to the county line. So, we aren't committing to that, but that's at least some of the thought process. If you say no this one I don't -- I -- I don't see us doing it for the other two miles probably. We can ask you again if you would like next year when that mile is designed, but that's kind of the thought process. So, one more -- one more thing and, then, I will look for questions or feedback. That next mile -- so, west of Ten Mile to Black Cat is also going into design and should be complete in '23 as well, with construction shortly after and, then, the third mile, Black Cat to McDermott or State Highway 16 is planned for design by ACHD in 2026. So, these three miles are going to be designed back to back to back. The construction of that last mile is unfunded right now, so I don't know when they will actually construct that, but they are going to design all three of these in the next three years. So, I think with that I already mentioned that the transportation commission supports landscaping the center medians with a preference towards lower maintenance materials and with that I will stand for any questions, feedback, direction you want to give. Simison: Thank you, Caleb. Council, questions, comments, feedback? Page 10 Meridian City Council Work Session Item#1. March 1,2022 Page 8 of 19 Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Hoaglun. Hoaglun: Caleb -- and I know some of these questions might be more appropriate for ACHD and I just want to start up high and, then, we will go granular -- is -- when I first opened the packet and read this I was just shocked to see medians in this area. So, you answered one of the questions. That is they are going to do it from the western end. I -- I have never seen this part of the road. I live on this road --just off this road -- as being the gateway to Meridian. I mean that's just not -- not a deal and -- and -- and people are coming down Ten Mile and they are coming down Linder, access points and whatnot, river crossings, the whole bit for -- for those roads and, then, McMillan, of course, to the north and, then, Chinden. The -- one of the things that I'm -- I'm concerned about, especially here with the picture that you have got up, you have got Five Mile Creek on the right-hand side -- on the north side there and, then, you have got Tumble Creek down here farther. For -- for maintenance staff to get out there, if we do any weeding and whatever, irrigation repair, that's -- that's a tough stretch, because there are no sections -- I mean it's -- you got the creek on one side and you do have the sidewalk on the other, but that's a long, tough stretch. It's kind of like parts of Ten Mile up there at the interchange where you are -- you are kind of out there on your own and it's --the safety is -- you know, they -- they do it right, but at the same time there is always that -- that concern someone is not paying attention. So, that -- that makes me a little concerned about that and -- and that kind of makes me lean towards more of a hardscape than -- I mean -- I mean we want it pretty, but at the same time it's just -- it's added cost on our end of things. Caleb, one thing I wanted to find out, there is going to be a ten foot path on the south side of Ustick Road here? Hood: So, Mr. Mayor, Council President, actually, ten foot path on both sides. So, some of it exists, so in what I have still got on the map, right, the -- the existing pathway is a little bit off because of the creek and -- and some of those slopes, they are going to continue to use the pathway here. But let me go to the next segment. But I -- the typical section includes a ten footpath on both sides. So, that's the multi-use pathway that ACHD is moving towards on pretty much all their capital projects these days. Hoaglun: Wow. Because there is an existing sidewalk -- Mr. Mayor and Caleb. You know, where it's red, that's the existing sidewalk that -- that exists. I -- I really wonder, because that creek -- and I know they are going to put in a barrier and coming across, they are going to have to take a lot of that -- that median -- the median area or the, you know, extra area, which was left when, fortunately, in these areas Meridian planned well and said, okay, here is going to be the setback for future expansion. But it's still going to be a lot. I'm -- I'm thinking that ten foot is going to be right up to their fence. It's going to be very very close. Again, that's more of an ACHD thing than -- than our thing. Hood: Mr. Mayor, Council President, if you want to just spend a second there, I can walk you through that a little bit more. So, here is a typical for this section. So, yeah, the Turtle Creek and -- and this Glenfield Way area, we have done a better job and you can see Page 11 Meridian City Council Work Session Item#1. March 1,2022 Page 9 of 19 what's going to be left after the project, about 19 and -- a little over 19 feet to the fence line there. So, actually, in this segment -- pretty good still. There is over 25 feet there now, so we do lose some of that, but that -- that existing sidewalk is being removed. Ten foot pathway, with a six foot buffer, and, then, the travel lane. So, in this -- in this segment you are good. If we go a little bit further to the west, though, it does get pretty tight here. So, this is the subdivision -- if you look at the typical there, we are 3.8 feet away from that fence line. The existing sidewalk is going to be removed in favor of that ten foot wide pathway, but this is the most constrained. So, for these eight, nine homes that are there, that pathway does come pretty darn close to their -- their backyard or their fence line. I just wanted to -- it does vary a little bit on the corridor, I guess. But we -- we looked at that and -- and in the ten foot wide pathway. Hoaglun: Let's go back to that other slide as we -- as we go to the west. I notice they are putting in a new crossing at Five Mile Creek up here. What I find interesting -- there was a triangle spot there. I -- I was surprised at that, because now if we go to the next slide -- again go west, the entrance to Tower Bridge Way accesses the --the Five Mile pathway and -- and, then, just right there where your pointer is -- right there is a bridge I helped build back in -- it had been a wood structure. We put in the concrete. That was strong enough to let milk trucks -- full milk trucks go across, because up there to the north was my father-in-law's dairy. So, I -- I'm thinking I -- I know we -- that's private property to some degree. A lot of it's irrigation right of way. And -- and so people are going to take this sidewalk to nowhere heading east on that north side and, then, if you go back and, then, access that -- that new bridge and -- and I just -- and see the sidewalk does not continue, I was just surprised they didn't -- even if they don't use that actual -- the bridge we built, but not go down Tower Bridge, just to that point, if we go back up --just make -- up to the next slide again. So, where it says North Tower Bridge Way, right there you can see it where it -- where it goes out of the picture, you see the pathway. Yeah. Right -- right there. And that's a crosswalk and the whole bit. I'm just surprised they don't have people go -- follow that to access the pathway, instead of building a new bridge. I mean money is money. Hood: Well, Mr. Mayor, Councilman -- Council President Hoaglun, a little bit on that. So, again, this -- what you are looking at here is the preferred concept. They haven't gotten to that level of design and this is preferred concepts. So, some of those conversations need to still happen with the irrigation district. A little more study of the existing bridge. So, it's not a done deal that a new bridge will replace that bridge. I think some of why it's in the preferred option for that, though, is what we kind of alluded to before and that the pathway serves as the de facto sidewalk in getting people back in corridor almost as soon as possible, rather than having them go away from where they want -- you know, the sidewalk paralleling the road, instead of having to feed everybody -- either into Bridgetower or away from. I think that was some of the thought process why I talked to the irrigation district, at least see what a new bridge -- it's going to be costly for them, to your point. So, I'm not holding my breath that this is a new bridge. I guess that's my disclaimer that this is a preferred alternative. That existing bridge may -- may function fine and may stay. This was something to trigger that discussion and see if it does make sense to build a new bridge. Page 12 Meridian City Council Work Session Item#1. March 1,2022 Page 10 of 19 Hoaglun: Thanks for that -- that background on that, Caleb. Appreciate that. And let's just jump one more to the -- to the -- to the west, Quarrystone Way, we have that. Just for people's information, Quarrystone Stone Way and, then, the county sub -- it's now in the city -- that's to the -- to the west here. Shafers live in that property that's open. They have stub streets just off the screen on both sides that will access that property when that developed someday, so -- and -- and same with the property on the south side, they have got a stub street I think coming from -- yeah, back there and -- and access point for -- for that, so -- that will work. Hood: And again -- sorry to interrupt again, Council President, but that is -- again, to today's situation I envision this median being larger, because access to those parcels you just called out will be internal and, hopefully, we can limit -- you know. But for today we need to provide them with an access to Ustick, because that's historically what they have enjoyed. Hoaglun: And -- and to that point, Caleb and Mr. Mayor, the -- making those longer -- again, we are in a heavily traveled corridor and having staff find a way to -- where to park, to get out there to access that, that's just a -- that's just the way it's going to be, you know, all the way-- if they do this all the way down -- down Ustick. So, that makes it a little more -- more difficult, but -- Hood: So, Mr. Mayor, Council President, a little bit -- a little bit more on that -- and Mike and I were on the --the team, actually, at the Meridian Road interchange and we designed in some of those pull out areas for maintenance vehicles as well. So, there are some spots that are strategically designed into something. So, there may be some hardscape areas still within these medians that you can pull a truck and trailer up and -- potentially and they can, you know, pull their toters up there with them as they trim stuff off. But, again, we are really trying to have these be lower maintenance. So maybe a few times a year. I don't -- don't quote me on that. But -- but, again, not -- certainly not there every week mowing lawn. Something that's a lower maintenance where spring and fall we will go and trim things up type of a thing and maybe the garbage every once in awhile. But we haven't gotten to that level. But I will just say -- I mean you mentioned at Ten Mile. That--we do thoughtfully need to think about that and I'm glad you brought it up, because there is a safety concern and we need to have pullouts for their trucks, because there is not a shoulder here for them to pull in and we don't want them up on the multi-use pathway type of thing. So, if we move forward that will be a consideration we will ask them to design in. Hoaglun: I appreciate that, Mr. Mayor and Caleb. Simison: Councilman Hoaglun. Hoaglun: That's a good point that we -- we would have to keep the safety -- it's one of those things -- love to see them landscaped and look beautiful, because that's my street, local street if you will. My local arterial. But at the same time if safety is a concern, then, let's not -- let's not do that. But if we can design it in a way that keeps our workers safe, Page 13 Meridian City Council Work Session Item#1. March 1,2022 Page 11 of 19 then --then by all means, then, we should --we should do that. I don't think I had anything further -- to the west, if you want to go to that. Yeah. That was a county subdivision that came in. So, if you see houses that are all vinyl, that's -- that's why. It wasn't our choice at the time, so -- and, then, they -- when the other subdivision came in they -- they just matched. That is a difficult intersection to get in and out of the way it is that close to -- close to Ten Mile. So, it is what it is, but -- and that one does have -- have a -- a little bit of -- no, it doesn't. Not yet. No median yet. So, yeah, it just was a surprise to see that out there --what used to be a country road and if I regale you with a story, that was where, when you took driver's training in school they would take you out, once you learn the basics of operating a car and would take you down Ustick Road right there, two -- two lanes, country road, no guardrails and Five Mile Creek right there. That was the white knuckle moment they took beginning drivers to make sure can they handle it. Are they going to panic and drive this car into the ditch? So -- so, a lot of kids talked about how scary that was to them, because it was right there and no guardrail, so -- Simison: Councilman Hoaglun, I think when this City Council gig is over we have got something for you on historic preservation. Strader: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Real quick. For the -- for the record, Councilman Borton joined us at 4:56 p.m. Council Woman Strader. Strader: Thank you. Thanks, Caleb. I guess the question I had in terms of--totally agree on trying to get the long-term maintenance cost of this down if we were to move forward. I -- just some feedback. If our transportation professionals are recommending this as something that's needed to get the speed to a reasonable level, I understand that. I would be curious -- what's the difference in long term maintenance cost between like, you know, a boulevard with trees versus something that has more -- just like xeriscaping. I'm thinking about like -- there is kind of a very strange looking roundabout near Hill Road as you go to Bogus, but it has some really beautiful xeriscaping and I think, you know, we live in a desert, hopefully, it wouldn't take much water, if any water. Maybe native plants and if it's something that low maintenance could we really cut down on the maintenance cost if we went with something more like that, as opposed to trees that had to be trimmed? Just curious kind of what the options would be down the road. Hood: Yeah. I'm going to have -- Mike is here for some of that and I wouldn't do justice to any answer there. Barton: Mr. Mayor and Council Woman Strader. It's a -- it's a good question. I mean I -- I would say in this corridor that turf grass is definitely not an option, just because of the frequency and the -- by the time you have to unload equipment and -- it's just not very practical. But, you know, the xeriscaping refers to maybe a low water consumptive plant material that is -- you know, as far as maintenance it's probably not any less than typical shrubs. I don't see shrubs out there -- like you wouldn't be there with shearing hedges and that kind of stuff, but trees and plants that are well suited for that --for our environment Page 14 Meridian City Council Work Session Item#1. March 1,2022 Page 12 of 19 and our climate would be more appropriate. I think that, you know, you do what you can with -- to reduce the -- at least the frequency of maintenance and -- and maybe it's a two times a month type visit and, then, in the spring and fall you -- you do a clean up or a cut down or something like that. One of the -- one of the -- probably the biggest maintenance considerations for this would be the --the amount of repair that it needs, because it seems like on Ten Mile -- Ten Mile Road just before the interchange -- and you don't even know why or when or how it happened, but there is always tire tracks in there and it's like somebody -- somebody doesn't see stopped traffic and they bail out and they -- they go in the landscaping. So, there is some of that. But long term and -- and to the safety point, I think that the crews would pull up -- well, first of all, we contract these out. This would be one of those sites. It wouldn't be city crews maintaining this. But they would likely pull up in the center turn lane right before the median and just park and get out and walk it and get back in the truck. I mean if there was a major cut down or clean up, like a spring and fall kind of thing, they would probably do that either on a Saturday or -- well not even early in the morning. It would probably be a Saturday. Just --just to get in there and get it done and get out of the way. Strader: Thanks, Mike. Cavener: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Cavener. Cavener: Mike, since you are up here, I guess kind of a question about trees. If I -- my memory is correct, after a certain period of time don't we take out mature trees and, then, kind of replace them with less mature trees? I feel like that we did that in downtown a few years ago and -- so I guess if we -- if we plant something it's -- it's there, really, in theory temporarily. Barton: Mr. Mayor, Councilman Cavener, in -- in a -- in an 11 foot wide planter strip where there is enough soil volume to accommodate the root system these would be in their long term and the only reason we did that downtown is because we were stuffing trees in a six foot by six foot box. So, these would --these trees, you know, theoretically, they are going to be allowed to be there and mature and -- and you can keep limbed up so they don't get -- you know, block sight lines and that kind of stuff. So, it's totally appropriate. Simison: So, it's -- okay. I have a question. From a practical standpoint, the stuff that's further on the west where you really don't have any connectivity to items, is the thought that you would do the half now of this road that has -- you could actually do something with and the other half later when those county parcels redevelop and you can do a complete median through those areas? Because it seems -- it seems to be very awkward and weird to do something in that existing space personally, but -- yeah. Hood: So, just to confirm, you are talking about these couple of parcels here or further west of Ten Mile? Page 15 Meridian City Council Work Session Item#1. March 1,2022 Page 13 of 19 Simison: Just the ones that -- the ones that are showcase where we were -- you have a little period, then, you have an open space for an access, then, you have another one, then, you had an open space. I'm just wondering if it makes sense to do that later when that area redevelops. Hood: So, yeah, we --we should ask Mr. Hoaglun what--when he thinks those properties are going to develop. Knock on your neighbors' door and see -- because I would -- I -- I'm going to just guess that those -- I mean those parcels are ripe for additional development there and I -- honestly, in the next couple of years, by the time they get to construction, they may have preliminary plats on them to -- to redevelop and that's really how we are kind of approaching this with ACHD, is this is short term, so if we wanted to enter into something now and say, you know what, let's not make the investment in these little things, because it's going to be, you know, a bigger thing in the future and do a separate agreement with ACHD potentially then, instead of something here that needs to be retrofitted in the future, that could be -- be part of the conversation. Because I -- I don't disagree with you, it looks -- it looks a little odd here. I'm also hopeful to some degree that through -- again, this is a concept plan that -- through right of way negotiations we can even potentially work with those property owners to leave their existing access as right-in, right-out, construct a median, but also have them use the -- either a U-turn or use the stub streets to their property if they really want to turn left and get out to a signal. I can't guarantee that. We haven't had those conversations with those property owners. I hear what you are saying and I agree with you. I don't -- I'm not necessarily a fan of how this is shown on the screen. I do think it would take some -- you know, ideally would be retrofitted, if not built with the center median initially. Simison: Okay. Thank you. Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor, one last question. Simison: Councilman Hoaglun. Hoaglun: Caleb, there to -- on Tower Bridge to the east they show -- they are showing green -- on the north side they are showing green right there. Yep. That's all rock right now. Just -- they put in gravel. That's -- is that -- I think that's part of the subdivision, would it not be? So, does that fall to the HOA to maintain that? Hood: Yeah. Typically, Mr. Mayor, Council President Hoaglun, yeah, we are in -- so, the ACHD policy and -- and how we work with ACHD is when a subdivision has improved out to the existing right of way, a landscape buffer, ACHD will -- will do what they call patch back, essentially, what was there before. So, that will still be HOA property and -- and maintained by the homeowners. But, again, there is some negotiation with that and even the design of that will be coordinated to some degree with the HOA to patch back. I don't want to go too far down this road, but Ustick, over by Locust Grove -- between Locust Grove and Meridian, if you -- if you look at that sometime, there is a mix mash of different things in that planter area between the sidewalk and the curb, because different subdivisions wanted different things in those areas. So, take the green with a little bit of Page 16 Meridian City Council Work Session Item#1. March 1,2022 Page 14 of 19 salt there. Most subdivisions, though, they want to maintain that look and not have just a two inch rock out there. They -- there is some degree of pride, if you will, and they -- they recognize they got to water it and maintain it, but most people tend to say that's more attractive. But, again, I don't know if this will actually be landscaped materials, but it is owned and maintained by the HOA. Hoaglun: Okay. Thank you. Strader: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Council Woman Strader. Strader: I guess just for some feedback, I'm more interested under the scenario where ACHD is helping to pay for the cost of it. You know, it feels like the motivation behind it is a transportation and safety related motivation and I love beautification strategically in certain areas of Meridian. I think it helps us a lot with our property value and our, you know, premier community. But I do -- I do think it's worth pursuing that agreement with ACHD and trying to convince them. Cavener: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Cavener. Cavener: Mr. Mayor, a question for you or for -- for Caleb. What does our community think about these? I mean is this something that they say is important? Is it something they say is nice to have? Is it -- is it a priority of theirs? Do they -- I mean I think some people don't notice them. I think some people sometimes struggle with like, oh, this is getting in the way of my ability to go 50 miles an hour down the road. I'm just trying to get a flavor for what our citizens think about this type of stuff, if you have got feedback or -- Simison- I don't think we have ever had any comment, except for on the ones in downtown. I will refrain comment from what those comments are about the ones in downtown, but I think it -- it varies greatly by who you speak to and there is not a consensus about their aesthetic value. I think they definitely do what they accomplish -- set out to do and slow people down and everyone recognizes that element. But, otherwise, I have not had a request for people to --you know, most people complain about the weeds that are growing in places that are not upkept, more so than having or not having landscape areas, boulevards, medians. Personally, I hadn't really thought about this until you mentioned it. It seems to me a hardscaped fence that was done appropriately would be as nice of an amenity as grass or something else with less maintenance and, quite frankly, based on the costs that are mentioned, I would think less cost. I don't know that though. If-- but if-- especially if ACHD is already looking at putting some sort of decorative fence structure here, that almost seems like as good of an option as anything else in a lot of ways form a cost and maintenance and everything else. Councilman Cavener. Page 17 Meridian City Council Work Session Item#1. March 1,2022 Page 15 of 19 Cavener: Mr. Mayor, I -- I -- I tend to agree. Well, I think it sounds like the ongoing maintenance is fairly low considering, I do kind of come from a place where simple the better. I think trees -- understanding they could be there long term would make sense, too, but a fence or a decorative art piece, something that doesn't require a lot of ongoing maintenance or support was something I would be more supportive of. Hood: Mr. Mayor, if I can maybe just add a little bit more to -- to your answers to Councilman Cavener, although it doesn't -- this isn't citywide, I do want to put this back into perspective, this project a little bit. So, ACHD -- again, with a concept plan there are two alternatives, again, for the first time for you. Because of the Five Mile Creek there is really a split option and I -- I hovered there, but I didn't really call it out -- what they are doing with retaining wall. It's a pretty intense retaining wall. They were initially looking at saving some dollars and putting that retaining wall back kind of over here where this travel lane was and really scrunching that -- this landscape buffer over here and to their credit they got some feedback from some of the neighbors. But some of the public involvement process for the concept plan has been done in the heat of COVID and so they didn't have any in person. They sent e-mails and had some virtual open houses. Some of the feedback that -- that Councilman Cavener was just asking about will come as they get further into design here and reach out to -- particularly BridgeTower and some of the adjacent -- so, I'm not talking citywide what do we think about this, but these neighbors that are most directly impacted, there will be some feedback. So, we are at a stage right now where ACHD is asking the city -- is there any level of interest from the city in potentially greening these up with the caveat that, yeah, they still have to design it and go out to the public and get some of that feedback as well. Now, they aren't going to do it under the guise of the city, but they will still -- if-- if-- if the initial design from ACHD shows them being landscaped and people are like why are we wasting money on trees, ACHD may go, hey, we are getting a bunch of feedback on what a waste it is to put trees out there -- so, that is part of the next steps in the process. But they need to know earlier if -- if there is any level of interest or if the concept should show concrete with wrought iron fence. They probably won't do artwork. Just telling you. They -- that's another like upgrade; right? The baseline, what we would get is probably some orangish, red, pink stamped concrete out there with a wrought iron fence. That's what we will -- we will get and if that's what everyone is fine with, then, that's fine. But there is an opportunity to -- again, I -- beauty is in the eye of the beholder -- but to dress it up a little bit. Simison: And I think that -- I'm not going to downplay the fact we have our two chiefs here this evening. Honestly, I thought we would hear more from public safety about -- especially if we start putting things in the middle that prevent or slow down or hamper the ability of public safety moving around traffic through areas. Definitely has been the case on Eagle Road. We have heard that before. They didn't want any landscaping on Eagle Road, so they could traverse when necessary. I would assume that anyplace we talk about these that becomes a potential issue and that might be -- I don't know, Mr. Hood, if you have had any conversation with public safety on this if they have -- yeah, I know you have somebody at the transportation commission, but I -- I want to -- maybe I want to start back with them and say what should be our standard and our expectations? Page 18 Meridian City Council Work Session Item#1. March 1,2022 Page 16 of 19 Hood: So -- so, Mr. Mayor, I appreciate that. I am trying to recall if -- if Chief Bongiorno has been part of this conversation. It -- it seems like he's aware of it. I have talked to him. But I haven't -- mountable curbs and I -- I can bring that up certainly with -- with fire and, then, bring that back to ACHD. I don't know how much stock they are going to put in that, because they have to have something vertical in these. Again, not to be a broken record, but to sign this at a residential arterial speed the -- the -- the medians in Eagle Road -- that's signed at 55 miles an hour as you know. So, if they were to put up vertical things here, then, they could sign that at 35 or 40 miles an hour. But I can bring that up and we -- we can coordinate some more on that. At least express the concern to ACHD and say, hey, these should be hard scaped and mountable and fire trucks should be able to drive all the way down them, if that's, in fact, what fire, you know, has concerns with. But right now, whether it's trees or -- or a fence, that is something that gets in your line of sight vertical obstruction for motorists. Simison: Yeah. And, again, I don't know what the answer is. Hood: A good point. I will coordinate with --with Chief Bongiorno a little bit more and see what concerns he may have. Simison: Okay. Nary: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Mr. Nary. Nary: Mr. Mayor, one more consideration. So, I would assume if we would like to have this landscaping in there, Caleb, and maybe you don't know this yet, if the landscaping were damaged by vehicles, is it the city's responsibility to replace it or would it be ACHD's responsibility to replace it? Because my guess is if it's a fence they will -- ACHD will replace it. If it's a tree are they going to do the same thing. Hood: So, I -- I am going to, with some assurance, agree with you on the first one, that if -- we are out -- we don't have any obligations or responsibilities if -- they are going to design in whatever they need to design in to sign it, whatever they need to sign it. Once we say can you include this in your project, that's when -- now in new rules that agreement gets to be written and your example of someone, you know, pushing over a tree I would guess would be on us, but I have not done -- we have done some similar things. Usually the landscaping is -- we design it, we install it, we maintain it, including -- and maybe we go, you know, through our insurance -- ICRMP or something, go after that motorist, but I think we are ultimately responsible for that. Nary: Yeah. That -- but my only comment, Mr. Mayor -- and just for consideration, I -- those things generally are not real expensive. It is not likely most of the time that they are hit and runs. We usually know who did it. We are usually able to collect on it and we are usually able to collect it back. Or ICRMP is able to collect it back. So, from a cost standpoint it's not -- not a real concern, because, again, trees and rocks and bushes don't Page 19 Meridian City Council Work Session Item#1. March 1,2022 Page 17 of 19 cost a whole lot of money compared to poles, giant flower pots, fences and those kinds of things. So, I'm not concerned from that standpoint of replacement. If needed, if these were to get hit -- again, they don't get hit a ton. I mean there is some. But there isn't a lot of that it, especially on a five lane road. But it just is another factor to consider or it's going to be potentially some future cost possibly. Simison: Yeah. It's only anecdotal, but I know our roundabouts down where I live have been hit. The -- you know, there is damage to the landscaping. I'm trying to remember what we have seen on social media about people's viewpoints on landscaping or not about the Pine 43 roundabout, because there is a community expectation out there and I -- I just can't remember from that standpoint. Yeah. The one question I was going to ask -- are streetlights considered a vertical element if they were to go into the median to provide lighting down this corridor and -- or not necessarily? Hood: So, Mr. Mayor, roadway lighting -- so, typically, ACHD's typical policy is to light the intersections and these medians are not at intersections. So, potentially -- and we don't have anybody from Public Works here, but potentially we are going to partner with ACHD to -- to provide roadway lighting, so maybe there is a dual headlight that could go in the middle of these that provides that roadway lighting, but I am not the roadway lighting expert on that. So, potentially, but it wouldn't be ACHD paying for that, because they basically say we -- we light intersections and --just trying to give the vertical element that we can all be supportive of and, you know, there -- there didn't used to do medians either, but now look at them. And ten foot pathways. Maybe they will change their tune on lights. Nary: Mr. Mayor? Strader: Mr. Mayor? Nary: The only thing I would add on -- on those, we -- when you add lighting, similar to the downtown islands, you are going to probably need more barriers to prevent them from getting hit, because those are a lot more expensive to replace. So those are the -- it does add some cost to it if you add that. I agree it certainly provides a greater visual of there, but it certainly is an additional cost and expense if they get hit versus trees and bushes. Strader: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Council Woman Strader. Strader: Just maybe one thought. Just sort of bigger picture. It might -- it might be nice at some point to get an agreement or just like an understanding of a cohesive citywide kind of approach to cases when we do landscape, just so they are consistent. I don't know if we are doing that, but I think to the extent that we are doing it, if it makes the city feel more cohesive and kind of a commonality to them, so that every single one is in a totally different concept, I think that might be beneficial. Page 20 Meridian City Council Work Session Item#1. March 1,2022 Page 18 of 19 Simison: I think we have that for the size of the roads. This is the first time we are really being presented with this issue and -- and that's kind of what Caleb -- the previous conversations were. If we -- if -- where do we want to do this, if at all, and this is now becoming the -- if we start doing this what's it going to look like? So, it is the precursor to that conversation to a certain extent. Strader: Got it. Simison: And, honestly, Council, I'm -- I'm torn on whether or not there is value in doing these. I -- I -- I think that, you know, our parkways that have separated areas with grass, with fences, are -- are really nice. I -- you know, streets that you are driving on in subdivisions -- you know, I drive in a subdivision that's got trees in the median that's perfect and great and love it, just don't know if citywide what makes the most appropriate sense to even implement in certain areas or not, so -- Hood: And, Mr. Mayor, just maybe to follow that -- that thought and -- and Councilman Strader's question a little better. Or -- or request. You know, we won't read into this as being precedent setting for any other road or projects that may -- may contain center medians. We are going to come back to you on a quarter by quarter basis -- hopefully not just mile by mile, necessarily, but say, hey, there is a potential here anyways to do some of this. Maybe to lead you to some direction for staff and if I'm not reading the tea leaves correctly certainly you can let me know. But I can just approach -- again, we are fairly early in the process. I mean it's moved along into the -- through this stage, but can't approach ACHD saying there is some level of interest in some beautification here with an emphasis on low maintenance, maybe figuring out what some of those details may look like, who -- who is responsible in instances of a -- a crash into something. Say, well -- but we are not really interested. You know, quick aside -- and, you know, taxpayer dollars are taxpayer dollars. City orACHD, it's, essentially, coming from the same source. But there could be some efficiencies, though, if they -- they trade out the concrete for some landscape material -- and maybe there is still some hardscape. Maybe it's a combination of hardscape and some way to dress this up and say, but the city isn't interested in designing and installing all this, but maybe if ACHD is we would consider maintenance of that and, then, report back. We are not committing to anything. But start the negotiations there and, then, I can report back and say, hey, no,ACHD says you need to design these to be all green and shrubs and 40 trees. We can say, well, just hardscape works then. I don't know that -- that's -- Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Hoaglun. Hoaglun: Just want to make sure, because I -- I have been told I talk a lot and never say anything. That low maintenance or even a fence type of thing can -- is -- is something I -- I can -- I can go for as well. It doesn't have to be elaborate, no trees, nothing major. It's something that we just have to figure out and -- and -- and make work, but just want to make sure you understood that. Page 21 Meridian City Council Work Session Item#1. March 1,2022 Page 19 of 19 Strader: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Council Woman Strader. Strader: My only strong preference is I hate nonfunctional turf. I just think it's a waste. We are a city of trees. I think if -- if they are really well suited to this and it would work, I'm -- I'm into those. I'm -- if a fence works that might be fine, too. I don't have a super strong preference. I'm -- I'm okay with you investigating it and kind of coming back. Hoaglun: Well, Mr. Mayor, you know -- Simison: Councilman Hoaglun. Hoaglun: -- running for reelection in 2023, can we run on build the wall? Simison: Caleb, do you -- do you have enough to move back to further conversations? Hood: No decision. I will investigate further and throw basically -- there is some level of interest. I recognize not everybody is -- yep, we got to do something out there. Maybe their baseline is what we end up with. But let me see. What -- what level of partnership ACHD is what -- and, I'm sorry, just one more. Yes, I think I have got direction. We will also see what -- if I can encourage them to really explore this further with, again, the neighborhoods that are adjacent as they go further into the design and really get to see what the stakeholders would prefer out here. Simison: Okay. Thank you. With that, Council, we have reached the end of our items. Do I have a motion to adjourn? Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor, I move we adjourn. Simison: I have a motion to adjourn. All in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay? The ayes have it. We are adjourned. MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT. MEETING ADJOURNED AT 5.25 P.M. (AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS) MAYOR ROBERT E. SIMISON Approved 3-15-2022 ATTEST: CHRIS JOHNSON - CITY CLERK Page 22