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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2006 02-21 Joint City of Eagle Meridian City Council Special Meetina with Eaale City Council February 21. 2006 The Meridian City Council and Eagle City Council Special Meeting was called to order at 11 :45 AM. on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 at the Ada County Courthouse by Mayor Tammy de Weerd. Members Present: Mayor Tammy de Weerd, Keith Bird, Shaun Wardle and Joe Borton. Members Absent: Charlie Rountree. Staff Present: Anna Canning, Ted Baird, Steve Siddoway, Matt Ellsworth, Doug Strong, Bill Nary and Will Berg. Eagle City Council Members Present: Mayor Nancy Merrill, Scott Nordstrom, Phillip Bandy, Steve Guerber and Stan Bastian (arrived at 12:45). Item 1. Roll-call Attendance: Roll call. X Shaun Wardle 0 Charlie Rountree X X Joe Borton X Keith Bird Mayor Tammy de Weerd Merrill: The first thing that we want to do is welcome everybody here and I just can't tell you how nice it is to work with you and your city and your City Council (inaudible) we have been in adversarial positions before and it is so nice to be able to work with Meridian and be able to sit down and visit with you guys. We really appreciate you and your willingness to meet with us. It is really great. Let's have a roll call. Tammy, would you like to call your roll? De Weerd: Will, would you like me to? Berg: Yeah, go ahead Mayor. De Weerd: Mayor De Weerd is here; Joe Borton is here; Councilman Keith Bird is here; Shaun Wardle; and Councilman Charlie Rountree is absent. Merrill: For the City of Eagle, Stan Bastian is absent, hopefully to be here later, he is at the legislature; Scott Nordstrom is here; Steve Guerber is here; and Phil Bandy is here. Thank you so much. Item 2. Adoption of the Agenda: Meridian City Council & Eagle City Council Special Meeting February 21, 2006 Page 2 of 23 Item 3. Discussion of the Comprehensive Plan and Areas of City Impact: Merrill: The discussion is basically, probably our areas of impact and what is going on with our Comprehensive Plans and we were getting all grown up, but we are starting to touch each other again and we want to be warm, fuzzies instead of pricklies, so I think it is time that we talk about what is going on particularly in the Chinden corridor and how we can support and compliment each other and that to me is our goal on this as you guys have some ideas on how you want to see Meridian grow, we have some ideas on how we want to see Eagle grow and as we merge we have got this big road between us and what can we do together as cities to make that beneficial to both our cities and for the traveling public and to be able to continue on with our Comprehensive Plans that got planned and maybe we need to make some adjustments in bulk areas. I know that we both have folks in those areas that are very passionate about each of our cities and wanting to be in each of our cities and I can only tell you that after going through what we went through with Star that that is a very trying and difficult thing to go through and that land changes. So, if I said anything, I would just tell you that land changes and faces change as we have seen a lot of these hot buttons now up for development no longer the same people that we thought we were going to have there. I think that we just kind of wanted to open this up and talk. We met with your Mayor and Anna and Nichol and I met a little while ago and we were talking about the Memorandum of Understanding and what could happen between the two cities as we get close together on it. That never did come to (inaudible) on that, but maybe we need to bring that back on the table. We just basically today wanted to communicate with each other and get a little bit of feeling about how and what is going on in each of our cities and talk. So, could we just kind of have an open dialogue, Tammy, what do you think? De Weerd: Yeah, Mayor, just for the record that Councilman Wardle is here. Wardle: Sorry I am late, Mayors. Merrill: Steve. Guerber: As the historian in more ways than one, I thought that we would kind of go back and look at how things used to happen and how we got to where we are today and this goes back into the '80's when I was Mayor of Eagle and Grant Kingsford was the Mayor of Meridian and Dirk Kempthorne was the Mayor of Boise. There was this battle that was going on at that time between Meridian and Boise about where to draw the line as far as areas of impact between those two cities and who was going to get what side of Eagle Road is what was going on. Every time we got together with the Mayors, which we did quite often thanks to the efforts of Mayor Kempthorne, who kind of started bringing the Mayors together periodically (inaudible--) which I don't think was happening. Those of us Meridian City Council & Eagle City Council Special Meeting February 21,2006 Page 3 of 23 on the outside kept listening to the debate go on and so finally I remember one time I said look you guys are just going to do nothing but argue about this thing and never come to a conclusion, I am going to start moving to have Eagle take over all the area of impact (inaudible) road up to Fairview if necessary and that way we will know whose area it is going to be in and you guys don't have to have this debate and we will (inaudible----------------). De Weerd: So, you are the guy to blame for these? Guerber: Yes, that is correct. It wouldn't be like it is now (inaudible-------), but what happened was (inaudible) realization of (inaudible-----) come to a conclusion, instead of letting Eagle have it maybe Boise or Meridian (inaudible---- -------). So, it wasn't all that long after that that they started kind of drawing the line on what was going to happen, but at the time it took place part of the discussion was that the line between Eagle and Meridian was going to be some Chinden Boulevard, which really seemed logical at that point and time and I think that if you look back now and everything that has happened at that point and time there were decisions made that, you know, needed to made and I think now we are at another point where you look and say, yeah 20 years ago something was being said about Chinden being the dividing line or something like that. As you look at everything that is happened and where development has taken place, where services are and those kinds of things, I think (inaudible------------) and it is good for us to sit down and say let's really see where the lines are (inaudible---) about 20 years ago (inaudible----------------) or something like that. (Inaudible----). De Weerd: I think probably one of the natural outcomes from starting the dialogue (inaudible--------------) and see how there is a need for more permanency in the Comprehensive Plan and planning for services and who can (inaudible) what (inaudible-----------) solidify some of that through discussion between the cities and the residents that it affect. I think, too, we start having a discussion of the Chinden corridor, 20/26, what it should look like, what kind of right-of-way it is going to need for future improvements, how to start at least looking at (inaudible) sites and setting that up to accelerate the improvements along 20/26 and I am sure you probably have the same (inaudible-----). So, these are very timely discussions. I don't know if our staff has had any kind of presentations or comments that would be appropriate to have prior to Council having some additional dialogue that will maybe give food for fodder or does that make sense? I (inaudible) your staff in front of us and - Merrill: Well, I think maybe where we need to start, Tammy is that we have got an area of impact that probably needs to be adjusted in that we have a decision of the Committee of Nine for our area of impact that we have been working through for years and years and years and the decision of what the county made and what the Committee of Nine made are two different decisions. Our Comprehensive Plan follows our Committee of Nine decision, whether or not that goes to court or not, we have not yet decided on that. But, I think that if we - it Meridian City Council & Eagle City Council Special Meeting February 21, 2006 Page 4 of 23 does include the area clear to Highway 16 on Chinden up there and if the cities in working through the details on this decide that we are going to make some changes or there needs to be some changes on that, we are - I don't think this Council will propose on going back to the Committee of Nine or to the county and making the appropriate changes that need to be made to do that. Just as a starting point on that that is an area that has been designated by the Committee of Nine as the City of Eagle going clear from Linder to Highway 16 to Chinden and that area and it was a motion then and most of the thoughts that we were working with really was south of - or north of the bench area type thing, but they did make that decision on that and that was a six to three decision on that. So, with that being said that is the area that we probably should first discuss. I think you have - have you got a couple of maps here? Nichole do you want to explain? Let me introduce Nichole. Nichole is our planner from the City of Eagle and she has been working with a lot of folks in this area, also. N. Baird: Nichole Baird (inaudible----------------). Basically what I did is a very simple map. It was not (inaudible------------------). The City of Eagle's boundaries are in the light purple (inaudible) looking color and pending (inaudible) annexations are in the blue, where we either have on file or recorded with the county (inaudible-----------------). Meridian's city limits are in pink with the southern portion of the area of impact boundary as granted by the Committee of Nine in red. I am just kind of giving you a chance to look at what that means (inaudible) and I am sure that there are pending annexations (inaudible----). I just don't have that data (inaudible----). The main issue to bring this forward is to just have a discussion about the areas that (inaudible------------) so you can look at land uses and the city did envision a rezone, mixed-use area at the Black Cat and 20/26. As shown in the Comprehensive Plan there was specific text about scaling of uses and allowances of uses in that area. Probably going to really gear it towards (inaudible----) as well as a retail center, trying not to end up with this strip, but also make sure of housing that was thoughtfully planned in relation to the commercial and office uses in that corner. Aside from that the majority of uses (inaudible-----), there is a transitional residential designation or a portion of that corridor where we are trying to encourage the clustering of uses adjacent to that corridor. The City of Eagle has adopted that we aren't going to have city- wide transit service in the future, but there are regional corridors that we want to be able to make certain (inaudible-------------) in Boise in the future and so we are willing to envision through our Comp Plan providing some densities and unit counts in those areas actually promote fees of that facility. (Inaudible discussion) Merrill: The other parties on the map that is the periwinkle and blue, blue and a pink - the blue and the blue on that. I did read the letter here from the Adalpe's on that and part of this is not necessarily true as far as what the services are available in that area to serve them. You see the big hunk of land down there that is in the aqua-blue if you will, that is the Idaho State Park plus some Meridian City Council & Eagle City Council Special Meeting February 21,2006 Page 5 of 23 adjoining parcels around it that have been trying to get annexed into the City of Eagle and we are working with the state now and having that being a part of the city, it doesn't have anything to do with what they can do in the State Park, I think, but it does give the property owners adjacent the opportunity to do that. As we go down the river area on that, it is serviceable by Eagle Sewer District and it is part of their master plan and the Sewer District is putting in and has been approved that conditional use permit to expand their plant just off the bypass along the river and on down towards Boise area on that and there are some big lines going up Linder right now and Park Lane, so the Sewer District is out in that area and as this area here aggresses that is available for that development in that area. We also have them east - west of Linder, our West Valley League ball teams that are very much a part of the City of Eagle and as well as the Christian Children's Home that we spent a lot of time with and have been involved with quite a bit with them and that whole area there. As it moves towards the Aldape property type situation that we envisioned and planned for as part of our master water and sewer plan to be able to service that area. So, this is area that can be sewered and watered and serve water by that. The other blue that is west of Linder, up there that hunk is already a developed subdivision that has been into the city several times wanting to make sure that they stay or become residents of the city whenever they are contiguous to something or can do that. The other land on the other part of Chinden that is north next to the other blue parcels are areas of people that already have consent of annexations out there. The big pieces and up to Linder can be sewered by Eagle Sewer District very well. That is part of their plan and the lines are coming that way. So, as far as sewer and water that is pretty much the plans for Eagle. As far as going any further west, we have not - Scott is the liaison with the Sewer District I am not sure if they got plans or anything - but, Meridian certainly can. Nordstrom: (lnaudible--------------). The bottom line is that it's already getting sewer out there to them (inaudible---------------) all the way out to the Black Cat intersection (inaudible--------------). Potentially what these stand alone individuals (inaudible---------) and the ability of those plans to even deliver the treated water back to the same local. It's an interesting (inaudible----------) how the (inaudible) cost wise it would be more expensive to do (inaudible---------). In my way of thinking it's really a matter of (inaudible---) from Eagle Council that it makes sense for some of the properties to be going towards Meridian just because of the convenience of the facilities. I think we probably ought to get more specific in that area in trying to find based on what you heard from everybody and just exactly what parts we are talking about because I think that is what it's going to boil down to. I know for a fact that the Sewer District can serve below that (inaudible) all the way out to 16. I just had that conversation with (inaudible-------) so I know for a fact that we can serve that area below that (inaudible---------------). From my perspective that is what I would like to see (inaudible--) and trying to work across this border and in the (inaudible---) what properties ought to go to Meridian. (Inaudible---) hearing otherwise (inaudible-------). Meridian City Council & Eagle City Council Special Meeting February 21,2006 Page 6 of 23 Canning: Madame Mayor's maybe I can give a brief update that would help just to understand where Meridian is in the process. Looking at Nichole's map - we are working on a Comprehensive Plan amendment and is part of that in the north Meridian area and as part of that Comprehensive Plan amendment it does include the land between Chinden and the Phyllis Canal from Linder - basically, almost all of the property that is in that area shown for Eagle right now, excluding the blue property. We did not include those in that subdivision where they indicated they did want to be part of a city - Nordstrom: Is that the (inaudible) canal that (inaudible) Linder Road and it kind of makes an (inaudible-----). Canning: Yes. Right at bench. It's above - (Inaudible discussion) Canning: In that application it is actually pretty consistent with your Comp Plan. It is a mixed use project. There is two or three at least. One is the mixed use project that has a component of large lot residential and commercial either neighborhood serving commercial or a little larger area serving commercial and that is in your mixed use area. Your transitional neighborhood, actually what they are proposing is very similar to what you are seeing or what you are designating is a transition from a little larger lot size and the smaller ones and even some multi-family, but it does provide that transition to those large lots to the north. So, the north Meridian application has been at Council for two hearings, so they will likely take action on it on March ih. Nordstrom: What do you have for the corner again (inaudible------)? De Weerd: (Inaudible--) need copies of that? Canning: Right now it is shown as mixed-use. There is a more specific development application that wouldn't be appropriate to show at this point and it has a lot more detail and that annexation application and conceptual plan is going forward to - De Weerd: Can you pass that? Canning: Yeah. (Inaudible discussion) Bandy: We end up losing, if you will the (inaudible) corner for a mixed-use or a concentrated commercial of some sort, I would like to see us re-Iook that Linder corner a little differently (inaudible) and maybe expanding the mixed-use on that corner, potentially to offset those. So, I guess it would just be a question of let's Meridian City Council & Eagle City Council Special Meeting February 21, 2006 Page 7 of 23 make sure that we try and model together on what is on those two corners so that we don't have complication or conflict or whatever, so that is why I am trying to ask - Merrill: Are you talking about Linder and Chinden on all four corners there? Bandy: Yeah. (Inaudible-----). Canning: The Linder and Chinden corners are going commercial. The one on the northwest is so narrow that it doesn't allow for much development opportunity. It is a very - by the time they take their right-of-way it's very narrow. So, right at that corner I think there is only one relatively small structure there. But, to continue on with that discussion during that Comprehensive Plan amendment - but as part of that at the Planning and Zoning Commission hearings we heard quite a bit of testimony from the folks down the bench, but they were not included in the application. So, the application at this point is just to the Phyllis Canal. Hopefully - does that give you enough update on where the City of Meridian is? De Weerd: Now, in the packets that Will gave you, you have several letters and can you reference, Anna, where those properties are? Canning: The Aldape property - if you are looking on map (inaudible), you will notice that there is one road that shows up kind of a narrow road, that is Bosco Lane going north of Chinden kind of a quarter mile east - De Weerd: Anna could you maybe (inaudible)? I am not really sure where these properties are. I know where the Aldape (inaudible----). (Inaudible discussion) Canning: The Aldape property is generally just north of Bosco Lane and that is the letter from Peggy Everist on (inaudible). (Inaudible discussion) Merrill: Yes, it's below the rim and it just sits right in the middle of that - (Inaudible discussion) Merrill: Well, and the other thing is that if that piece were allowed to come to Meridian then both of us (inaudible) to the west of - that we are trying to put together from being annexed into the City of Eagle. We do have property owners over on the west side and as well as on the east side that aligned (inaudible). So, that just puts a big hole in that. Meridian City Council & Eagle City Council Special Meeting February 21,2006 Page 8 of 23 De Weerd: That is not part of our plan (inaudible). Merrill: Well, I think the important thing is that these properties can be served and that they could development rights on those and entitlement rights and opportunities for that. Another thing to realize too (inaudible-----) already tried and true and worked flood plain development ordinance that is pretty extensive with the staff to follow it through and to take care of it. So, that is something that we have done all along the river, through all the channels of rivers is flood plain development and an ordinance (inaudible-------) that we have already adopted to take care of those (inaudible----). (Inaudible discussion) De Weerd: Can you draw on my piece because I can't (inaudible----)? I am a visual person. (Inaudible------). Bird: Is that your west boundary --? Merrill: It is with the - the block of red there is the Committee of Nine's. Bird: And this would be Eagle - I mean Star? Merrill: Um, west of - yeah. (Speaker unknown): Madame Mayors, I was just going to ask - the last couple of years the (inaudible---) have been (inaudible) the legislative (inaudible ----) and they have been looking at opportunities for (inaudible) both drinking water and sewer districts. Has anybody contacted the City of Meridian about that? Since (inaudible) lives in this area, he has an interest on seeing what is developing out there and from what I understand his concern is the political boundaries of the water and sewer districts (inaudible----). I think what their intention was to look at the possibility of looking at geographic boundaries. Perhaps the District could split either (inaudible) and the county and the city - so just to throw another (inaudible) idea out here and (inaudible) property moves forward (inaudible------) batch reactor plans. That is a possibility. There is still being improvement, operation maintenance is the big issue on those, but if there is a traditional way of handling those, too (inaudible-----). Bird: Aren't you guys buying some units from Boise Sewer and in your area (inaudible---- )? (Speaker unknown): Star is. Bird: (Inaudible-----)? Meridian City Council & Eagle City Council Special Meeting February 21, 2006 Page 9 of 23 Merrill: What we have right now is we have a contract with Boise City, well not "we", but Eagle Sewer District has a contract with Boise City to serve the sewer that comes from the City of Eagle at their west Boise plant At the time that Eagle Sewer District completes their plant, at that point, they hope to one day soon be able to draw from Boise Sewer and be able to process it there. The thing that I looked at and thinking about (inaudible) here and I have to flip-flop that over to Kuna and what's going on in that area, too, is that - particularly here is that they have got Boise processing that in the Boise River, Eagle soon to be, Star, Middleton and you have got that whole thing out there type of situation (inaudible) if there was an opportunity somewhere along a particular river and again on the other side of - or out near the Meridian area, you have to really location areas here to process sewer regionally. You could basically get Boise, Meridian, Kuna on one areas as well as Boise, Eagle, Star and Middleton and going out that direction out there, I think it's probably a long term, long time plan, but it certainly makes sense from the general public and from what is best for the environment. The other thing that we are looking at, too, is opportunities to do land application (inaudible). The Clean Water Act and everything that is going through with that there is opportunities to be able to recharge the aquifers back with this benefit, this beautiful asset that we have with this reusable water. I was just talking with a guy the other day and he says how long has it been since you have been down to San Diego? I said, well quite a little while. He said, well if you turned on the tap and drank any water you are drinking (inaudible) water. That is an interesting thought, but it is an up and coming technology. Phil has worked with the DEQ and that is his background and that is why we kind of went off on that a little bit maybe in this line of work. Anyway, those are just some thoughts, maybe outside this box, but certainly we would be willing to engage and involve in any discussion that could help facilitate the other side of Meridian out there as well as (inaudible---). De Weerd: (Inaudible-----) still trying to identify from a (inaudible---) they are. (Inaudible-----). Wardle: Madame Mayor's, one of the objectives that I have and we open the conversation up with the Eagle Road discussion and really who's fault that was - I mean (inaudible) set on the Council I can say that it probably wasn't mine. All of the things aside, the one thing that it appears to me that we are changing uses from the current agricultural land, higher density residential, some commercial in addition to some of these Public Works sort of situations - we probably ought to be looking at transportation. I know that the City of Meridian is planning very heavily for the McDermott corridor and to allow that to be a potentially an off grade facility and be at high speed - (Inaudible discussion) Wardle: Yeah, sorry Highway 16. In addition to that one of the things that we are going to need is the ability to function internally with some collector roads and Meridian City Council & Eagle City Council Special Meeting February 21,2006 Page 10 of 23 a system that works together that keeps people off of Highway 20/26 and Highway 16, so regardless of where the properties go, I think it makes sense to have closer to conversations because you really would be using, essentially the residential collector roads or business development roads. Is that correct, Steve? Merrill: We would on our side. I think you would be on your side, too, actually. Siddoway: For McDermott, along Highway 16? Wardle: Well, as opposed to restrict access you are going to need some internal Siddoway: You are going to have to have back-age roads or things that will provide access separate from that facility. Wardle: Right. Merrill: Yeah, we agree with that. We had an opportunity to with that transportation department this last week and that is one of things that we - I think we are supportive and both of us are in the same thing as we know that as development occurs here we have got to move people. We have got to get them on and off of these roads. We are going to have development, certainly retail, commercial and that is going to occur. If you put a road in it is going to come on that and then how is the best way to, you know, jointly support each other where a light should be along in here and the frontage and back-age roads and I think that kind of support going to a transportation department is good. I think the more that we are all on board on the same land use and that would be helpful. Whatever you guys are planning on the north, on the south side - north side of the road up there, I think we would be interested in. If this indeed goes into Meridian then you know - (Inaudible speaker and discussion) Merrill: Yeah, we heard from some Spurwing folks when we did the Comprehensive Plan and their desire was to develop some townhouses and things and they desired at that time to be in Meridian. That was their request. I don't know if they changed, but I don't think so. I (inaudible--) on board. (Inaudible discussion) De Weerd: If you will speak up and give your name and address for the record, please. Doug Carnigan: My name is Doug Carnigan, address is 4410 W. Chinden. I also happen to be a member of Spurwing Country Club (inaudible----). So, if you Meridian City Council & Eagle City Council Special Meeting February 21,2006 Page 11 of 23 think of it in two parts, Spurwing has a piece of it that is not yet developed. They would like to do this with (inaudible) townhouses and it is my understanding Jacque Hewitt is responsible for that. We could file an annexation (inaudible----) so that is that piece. The second piece is the members of the area that is already developed. It is my understanding that they have not taken a vote. If I was to do a rough poll, I would say that probably 75 percent would prefer to be in Meridian. N. Baird: You know on our Comprehensive Plan process and our Committee of Nine process - have a letter from -- (inaudible) also owns property down on Duck Alley and their direction in that Comprehensive Plan process was that they had concerns about the (inaudible) area being included into Eagle at this time because they wanted to develop quicker, similar with the townhouses. But, as for the Duck Alley piece they really saw that as being part of the City of Eagle and it being geographically separated - having it developed Boise and Eagle. (lnaudible---) sorry (inaudible--). Merrill: One of the things that we learned through the process as you are going through the process with the county on the deal and going through the Committee of Nine, which has been (inaudible) painful for the City of Eagle that we will pass along for you is the only three requirements for a State Law that you need to meet and that is that you have a geographical boundary that show the trade area and the ability to annex and those are the three criteria, which the Committee of Nine - they looked at everything else - both cities could serve. It wasn't who could serve more efficiently, it was that they both had a plan, they both could serve and all together things that went into the whole big mess it boiled down to the three criteria that the State law allows for. And with a geographical boundary being definitely in my opinion (inaudible) we would hope that that would be some sort of negotiation with the City of Meridian. (Speaker unknown): Do we know if this land that (inaudible ---)? (Inaudible discussion) De Weerd: Does the Phyllis Canal (inaudible-------). (Inaudible discussion) De Weerd: I guess to add to (inaudible) you know I am kind of (inaudible) on Planning and Zoning (inaudible------) and I enjoyed that process. I also and maybe it will be naïve and that I believe in the public process. I think two political bodies together is great, but I also think that the people that live in these island areas should have a voice as well. That has been kind of our approach and going out and plan (inaudible) trying to avoid these kinds of similar issues to (inaudible). We are hoping to do a regional public process exercise and bring the county and the two cities together to include the 16 residents in this (inaudible). Meridian City Council & Eagle City Council Special Meeting February 21, 2006 Page 12 of 23 You get a better sense of where they feel (inaudible------) what they envision, what are their quality of life issues, what they think (inaudible---) and I guess as we talk to your Mayor, boy it was over a year ago and came to (inaudible) on the subdivision out of that one area and take the area on the bench to the west that seemed because of the large interest of the property owners, the right thing to do. When the Aldape's came to us she said this is too far in it; we haven't talked to Eagle to know if there is sewer. We want to be sensitive to the fact that they have been long-time Meridian residents and they feel a connection to Meridian, but we didn't want it to be part of an application that we already had because (inaudible) the political entity with Eagle, with our staffs and we have (inaudible) to know if we can sewer it, water it and at what costs. As our Public Works Director will say, you can sewer anything if you have got enough money. So, I (inaudible----) to any property owner is if we both can service it; what costs and what are their thoughts? I mean, I don't like to fade out the voice of the people that it effects to find the solid line, but I do agree (inaudible). We have drawn a solid line with the City of Boise and our staffs respect that. If a developer comes and says I have a development and I want to - Boise sewer is right there and their staff so they could sewer us, we usually lease us, most often it is not. We built into our master plan. We sized our pipes and we have not only - it's not just water and sewer, it is also fire and police and schools and all of that. So, it is not just a sewer issue. It is important to come to that solid line and I think everyone is positioning right now, even the land owners, where they feel they have a sense of belonging and those are appropriate discussions. We just did one including these letters that we have in front of us because we didn't look at them (inaudible) sewer and water because we were valuing a discussion when (inaudible) up to that point and (inaudible------) at a later date and we forgot that and it has become very apparent that you either get a letter one side or the other if those discussions (inaudible----). Merrill: Mayor and I so appreciate that and agree with that 100 percent. That is exactly what we did in our Comprehensive Plan, too. Let me take you one step further since we have gone through the process on this and let you know what has happened on that. In the midst of the heat of the fracas of this battle, if you will, for the impact area out there. There were a lot of property owners that pretty much drew the lines for either side or however they wanted to see the city grow or however they wanted to be involved with it, if they wanted to be in one city or they wanted to be in the other city. During this, what has it been two year process that we have been through? A major part of that property has been sold and those people that stood before us that were so passionate about being in this city or being in that city, sold their property and their developer has now determined which city he wants to be annexed into. So, the love of our properties as we have seen go through the process on that, one particular property was adamant that they did not want to be in the City of Eagle, they wanted to be in Star. In fact, they didn't even want the City of Eagle to serve them or be served by the Boise Sewer District. Well, that property is now sold. The developers now want to build in Eagle and we have to go back and redo that Meridian City Council & Eagle City Council Special Meeting February 21, 2006 Page 13 of 23 contract that excluded them out because of where that piece of property is, it can't be served the other way and it's a big, huge headache on that. So, I think that we want to listen to the people that are living here. That is their property. It is where they lived; it's where we have all lived. We love our property. We love the connections that we have. But, we know that as this land is - we all know what has happened. Look at what's happened with the pink? Look at what's happened with the blue? Look how fast this land is developing out in that area? It is huge and - we cannot keep that also in mind that it is going to flip. De Weerd: Well, and that is where our relationship with the City of Boise once you (inaudible----) came in very handy is that we have a development just to the south of Ustick that half of the subdivision is in Boise and half is in Meridian because the bought the pieces at different times and it was such a hassle even bringing sewer over here that we said no, that we are not releasing to Boise that this is a Meridian piece and (inaudible---). Merrill: We have the same agreement with Boise and we are right next door to them on (inaudible------). Siddoway: If I might, I thought I might try and frame discussions of what I see as the two main questions for this area that we are talking about right now in north of Chinden. The first is that the City of Meridian is proposing an area of impact expansion from Chinden up to the bench between Linder and McDermott. So, the first question is is their general agreement with that area going to Meridian? I wasn't at the meeting last year, but I had heard that there was some discussion last year that suggested that there was some general agreement that that would work. Now, the second question - we have since been approached by the properties below the bench and towards the river and the question is whether the City of Meridian is wanting or desires to take that area into its area of impact also? The second question would then be does Meridian want it? Does Eagle want it? Is there a general agreement, which I sense in general of Meridian going up to the bench and stopping there and letting Eagle have along the bench down into the river bottom? I don't know if that helps frame the question, but I just thought I would throw that out there. Merrill: My Councilor your Councilor whichever Council. Stan, you haven't had anything to say. Welcome, Stan. Stan is here, I might add. Bastian: Thank you. I just wanted to understand the map here. The red line? Merrill: The red line is the Committee of Nine's recommendation. Bastian: For the City of --? Merrill: Of Eagle. Meridian City Council & Eagle City Council Special Meeting February 21, 2006 Page 14 of 23 Bastian: And what has just been proposed is going from Linder all the way to - (Tape turned over) (Inaudible discussion) Merrill: The Committee of Nine is the process that when you have a disagreement with the county - the Committee of Nine is the three Ada County Commissioners, three of the - well, myself and two of the City Councilmen and three at large citizens. (Inaudible discussion) Merrill: Not necessarily. They could have been. The law allows for the City of Eagle to make the choices of who sits on that board. We allowed - we discussed that with the county and together jointly we chose the three citizens. (Inaudible discussion) Merrill: Umm, no. A retired judge, a developer, an attorney and a developer. Bastian: Madame Mayors. Steve, I think your comments are the (inaudible) issue pertinent to - or at least the way that I saw them - as the first question being where these lines are being drawn and sounds like discussion today and before today was that the McDermott, Linder to the Phyllis Canal in the area that we propose as the expanded area of impact, nobody has an objection to and I haven't seen any particular property owners within that area that has any objection to that expansion. I guess the first step that everyone is on the same page with? Guerber: I guess I could speak on behalf of everybody. I guess that there is an interesting sidebar that is going on here, which is just - since we have that one property on the west side of Linder, why not just go ahead and (inaudible) the corner and then we got maybe even a (inaudible----) the canal with a bench and then we have hard boundary on the west (inaudible-----) leaves that little parcel right on the corner (inaudible) draws a straight line. I like that idea. Canning: Madame Mayors, Council members we already do have an annexation request in (inaudible----) for those properties. Guerber: For that corner? That little deal? Canning: Everything excluding the residential properties - Guerber: When do you have that (inaudible---)? Meridian City Council & Eagle City Council Special Meeting February 21, 2006 Page 15 of23 Canning: They are asking for mixed use designation and then proposing some transitional density of residential that goes from townhouses to 17,000 or 18,000 square foot lots to the north end of the property and they are also asking for some commercial uses right along Chinden. (Speaker unknown): And that is all one owner? Canning: Yes. It was under one development application. (Speaker unknown): But it brings that corner in - that whole section would be (inaudible---- )? Merrill: Yeah, that whole area there. (Inaudible discussion) Borton: Madame Mayors, I was just going to say - that is public process. And it kind of going in to all of the things that we have talked about so far as far as what would make sense for the respective cities - the difficulty or ease of serving utilities in these areas, but (inaudible---------) developed, but it is obvious to me that the folks with the largest land parcel here is for (inaudible----). That is the only question (inaudible----) is how we are going to split this along the Phyllis Canal and how do we incorporate the rest of the (inaudible---)? Bastian: Joe, I think we are in agreement that that makes sense, that that geographic boundary (inaudible--). (Inaudible discussion) Bastian: I think the issue that we are sensitive to is going to be on the bench down to the river and so I just would like to know what your thoughts are about that. I understand that the property owner would like to be annexed into the City of Meridian. The Aldape property, I would just like to know how our Council feels and how your Council feels about that issue? De Weerd: I guess, Stan, as a Council we haven't had that discussion as that letter at the end and now the subsequent letters on additional landowners in that area who have also made similar requests. We told them that right now we are in the process of this Comp Plan revision and that is not a part of it. So, it is something that I think our cities need to talk about with those property owners and maybe it starts with our staffs and the property owners, or --? Merrill: -- and the sewer districts. I think what can happen - De Weerd: (Inaudible---) get together. Meridian City Council & Eagle City Council Special Meeting February 21,2006 Page 16 of 23 Wardle: Madame Mayors, certainly to clarify - we are in the process of looking at expanding our area of impact we haven't had this discussion within our City Council as to what our recommended action would be in this specific instance and it appears to me that we are talking really of some very specific properties, but from a Council perspective we need to make some policy decisions on and we have a general policy of working together with cities and being partners in those types of arrangements, but we haven't addressed it individually and I - someone mentioned the public process and I believe that there is a public process for the Council to consider those things, so while we may want to draw a line here at this table, I just don't know that that is a possibility for today. I am sensitive to the things that have been brought up. Flood management is one of those that we don't feel that with the Boise River in the City of Meridian as a waterway through our community - it is not an issue that we have broached at this point and time. Merrill: I think that probably what we should discuss is where are you in the process with the county? You know, if you are willing to share that with us with your request for the area of impact and if we can come to some kind of an agreement on this - what we should do with our Committee of Nine recommendation in order to correlate that with your requests for you area of impact, which would also facilitate our area of impact. So, I think that's probably - where is Bill - it's attorney type of stuff and staffs type of stuff I would think would probably be the next kind of consideration and discussion that we would want. De Weerd: I guess I appreciate the (inaudible) on two different issues. One is the Comp Plan and then the overlap with yours and I think we are in consensus on that and we would like to move forward. Council will be hearing that again on March 7th to what we anticipate make the final recommendation so that it then goes forward to the county. Merrill: You need a letter on that from us on how we feel (inaudible) about this (inaudible). We have a meeting tonight with the Council and we could make a motion and put together a letter- De Weerd: I would really appreciate that. The second issue would be additional correspondence that, I think, you have received and we received that has some other issues that have been raised and we need to work together to find that line that we all feel comfortable in drawing. At this point as we move forward with this, we thought we were drawing that line, but I do think that our cities, our staffs, the Council Presidents and Mayors maybe get together with those residents and talk and see how we want to proceed and in response to property owners and what the requests are. That is a separate issue and then maybe we can start finding that solid line because there is a conflict of state code. You can (inaudible) to get these area of impact lines drawn and then some request annexation - if you don't have good, solid relationships, those lines mean Meridian City Council & Eagle City Council Special Meeting February 21,2006 Page 17 of 23 nothing. They mean absolutely nothing and when you master plan your community, master plan your sites or try to look at where your fire station should be located, you look at all the different associated services and that master plan seems to go down the tubes because someone has just taken a major chunk out of the area that you have planned for, I think that is (inaudible) and you are not doing your citizens the due diligence of being frugal with their tax paying dollars and how to get efficiencies and your economies or scales through those provisions of services. So, if we can get through this one piece with COMPASS and plan that we are moving forward with and that we have agreement on and then have an agreement to get together and then talk about the next set and then start looking towards the end result where we would like to find those lines that we have good dialogue if someone wants to come and we have found a couple of incidences in Boise where we have a no-man's land that can't (inaudible) and it makes sense to either pull it into Meridian or into Boise once you start getting into a different level of analyzing it. So, then our staffs come together on that micro level. Does that sound like a reasonable approach? Merrill: That sounds like a reasonable approach. I think that the other thing - I agree the areas of impact that we have seen are worthless as far as I am concerned. Memorandums of Understanding between cities coming together to me would mean a lot more as we (inaudible) follow through with the City Council's as we move through the things, like we have with Boise and you probably have with Boise also. Wardle: And if I may just a little further - I know that our staff, the Public Works staff hasn't at the direction of Council really considered their service ability below them. I would think that the first step would be to get the two staffs together at the Public Works Department to look at that so that we can all have a more informed decision to make and then certainly work together with Councils and property owners to make them more - Merrill: I would tell you that this area that you are talking about below the bench is in our water master plan and has been planned for types or size. The wells are (inaudible----) determined to be, as well the sewer has been planned for that area. So, even though it is not being built yet they know where all of the pipes are, they know how it is going to be served and it's there. It already has a master plan both for water and sewer for that full area. (Inaudible discussion) Merrill: We do have those plans and we would be happy to sit down with staffs and see how that goes. Canning: Madame Mayors and members of the Councils, just regarding Mayor Merrill's issue on the finding of where we are with the areas of the impact process. My understanding is the county has so many other ways right now, Meridian City Council & Eagle City Council Special Meeting February 21. 2006 Page 18 of23 which amendments - which would be considered amendments through the Comprehensive Plan that the soonest that ours would be likely to discussed is in September. So, we are a ways off from needing a letter. Merrill: All right. Canning: I think that the next (inaudible) milestone that comes up relative to the discussions (inaudible------) regarding rural area, which (inaudible) in March and as it stands you're current request includes the overlap area. That would be the next big milestones. De Weerd: But, I think our Council would appreciate a letter because (inaudible) a decision that we are moving forward with an agreement with the City of Eagle. Merrill: Well, I would think that we would like a (inaudible) at that, too, from our proper Councils if we are going to have to meet with the county on this and talk about this area of impact, that we are going to be with them and then we would probably want one from Meridian also. We are going to be required to negotiate the area of impact between the two of us anyway, whether this has not been noticed as re-negotiation of the area of impact on that, but we could certainly say that we have met and that we have discussed this area between the City of Meridian and the City of Eagle and that we are working on trying to come to a solution between the two of us (inaudible) make that decision. Bastian: What I think should happen is the two letters, one from the City of Eagle and one from the City of Meridian would be good things to have, but I think the Memorandum of Understanding might even be palatable, something that both Council's agree upon and sign off on and present to the county at the end of the day, you know, assuming that we can agree. I think we can reach a point where we can agree and then present that as a unified body, both Eagle and Meridian and the county saying this is what we agreed upon. I think, then, they would be most likely to honor that Memorandum of Understanding and be able to go forward and we would feel like that we crafted it ourselves and I think that is the way to go. Merrill: I guess I lean that more towards that we trust you guys. As city leaders we know that you understand what we understand and the needs for both of our cities to grow and the needs to work with our citizens out here and the other things out there. We have not had good relationships with the county. You know that and it has been very difficult for us to be able to work through these issues and I just think that the two cities can work together and we can show the other cities out there and hopefully we can help facilitate and help work through your issues on the other side of your city, out there in Meridian - we do that again out here that can set a standard and help you further and that we are sure to welcome and offer our help in anyway that we can and we are there for you. But, I just think it is a good starting point to have two good Councils work together. Meridian City Council & Eagle City Council Special Meeting February 21, 2006 Page 19 of23 Bastian: Madame Mayors a question on comments and - about the Memorandum of Understanding and get together to create one. Do we have an understanding or at least (inaudible----) or are you talking about north of the Phyllis Canal. Do we have a written one? Merrill: No. (Speaker unknown): There is not, but I mean as far as the dialogue today. Bastian: Yeah, I think we have come to an understanding today and I suppose we haven't included what we are going to do with the property down below the bench, but I think what our Council is leading to is it is a planned area for a provision of water and sewer and we would like to see that remain in the City of Eagle and that the higher elevation where you can service remain in the City of Meridian. Now, that begs the question and that is how will the property owners down here be best served and if we can demonstrate then we can serve them equally as well, that is we can provide water and sewer. I don't think there is a question really there other than a preference to which city you want to call yourself. But, I think for our long-term planning of water and sewer and the expense of that planning and anticipation of that being in our area of impact and your planning with previous agreements that review expected events should be in your area of impact. There is where I would like to go. I think that would be a compromise that, at least from my perspective will be agreeable. (Inaudible discussion) Merrill: So, you have a meeting tonight also. Well, this will be (inaudible) I don't know at your agendas or our agendas discuss it further and then everybody get together and see how we did. I am hearing that we are saying the same thing. I am thinking that we are working - definitely we have got to go through the public process and we want to hear from the citizens out here. But, I think that it is important for us to be able to lay our cases out before them and say how can we best serve them? Just because we put somebody in the area of impact, does not change their address. It does not change what they do or whatever city they feel that they belong in. They still go to the same schools. They still go to the same Post Office and still go to the same things that they always do until they, in our case, request annexation for their property to be annexed whether they are developing or whether they determine that that is what they want to do is be part of the City of Eagle. But, the plans for them to be able to serve that area in any case will be available, not forced upon anyone, but certainly will be available for during the next years as development process occurs. I think that that is the kind of thing that we want to make sure the people understand that there is such a misconception between the area of impact and annexation in the cities and the people - a lot of people in our process felt as soon as they were in the area of impact they were in the City of Eagle. So, not understanding that they had to be annexed and they had to request for annexation - they wanted to change their Meridian City Council & Eagle City Council Special Meeting February 21, 2006 Page 20 of 23 property and that kind of stuff. You know, so I think that it's up to us as city leaders to educate folks and the difference between the two and what the area of impact actually does and what the annexation (inaudible) because that is where we really did get into a lot of problems out there. They were just people that had never been to a meeting and never had been in anywhere involved with any city process and all of sudden they get a letter saying, you know, we are going to have these areas of impact request for the City of Eagle and the City of Star and they thought their land was being taken and something was happening to it. Yeah, it was going to be rezoned and they couldn't have their horses or the cows or whatever they have out there on it. So, you know we know all of that, but a lot of times the folks out there don't understand that. Bastian: But, Mayor, having said what I said I would like to go to the letter that is attached to the documents here, February 13th addressed to Mayor De Weerd. The last paragraph says that we feel that Meridian could serve our needs a lot easier and sooner than Eagle could be able to and who would like to join their neighbors the Aldape's and (inaudible) to the west and the south of us and be (inaudible--~--). What I think is the obligation of the City of Eagle, if we go forward with that in our area of impact is to show that we can provide service and that it can be beneficial to the property owners. I would think that if we cannot do that, then we would relinquish that area to the City of Meridian. I think that if you stack the facts up there and say look this is the facts here and another set of facts here and we can compare how they connect to the City of Meridian and we can compare how they connect to the City of Eagle and there is a clear delineation that one half way is more efficient and less costly than the other and I think we ought to go that direction. I am not sure how the Council feels about that, but that is the way I think we ought to go. Wardle: Madame Mayors, mentioning that we have a meeting this evening, I think one of the things that this Council can do is just craft for our Council and for the property owners a timeline as well as and in planning staff - I guess I am directing maybe a couple of questions to staff. What would be the timelines? What would a Memorandum of Understanding look like? What sort of notice would need to be given to property owners? I guess those are some unanswered questions for me that maybe, hopefully this evening - our agenda is very full, but if we could at least have the short discussion as far as timeline so that we could communicate that back to Eagle, to the property owners. It would help, I guess, me personally fit this into how that decision gets made. De Weerd: Well, I guess my thing is and I know if I don't say this our City Clerk will hang me up by my toenails. I think before we can have any discussion like this it needs (inaudible--------) and it should be on our agenda. What I would like to do is have us work with our staffs and maybe create some draft language for the next Council meeting and put together a timeline that we can have something to discuss that the public will (inaudible----) the city prior to that and we will have Meridian City Council & Eagle City Council Special Meeting February 21, 2006 Page 21 of 23 appropriately noticed and I can retain a good relationship with my City Clerk and that I have compromised his agenda. Bastian: Mayor De Weerd and Mayor Merrill, one of the things that I would like to see in the process is that one that we work towards the Memorandum of Understanding, but also in the process I think we need to have our technical expert water, sewer people meet together and determine how this area can be served best and least expensively and that should be a driving (inaudible-----) should help us make a decision. And, we have to make a decision that is a good decision for all concerned, including the property owners. Merrill: And the tax payers that have to pay for it also. To me that is one of the critical issues on that is that we work together on those details because if you don't, then you are going to get - what happens is you will get people out there making assumptions and saying things about your sewer or our sewer that are not true and it is not easy to do that if you have got them both working together and you can say jointly this is what we decided and we know what is going on with Meridian and Meridian knows what is going on with Eagle and the stats are solid in where those are. Then you will not have assumptions and people assuming or saying things out there that are not true. De Weerd: We know exactly what you are trying to say. Canning: Madame Mayors and members of the Council, I understand the technical background kind of information you want. There is (inaudible) have, but do City Council's want to hold their own hearings separately with those infected property owners or would you like a joint hearing so that they can come testify at both Councils at the same time to make those decisions? Merrill: That would be a good idea. Canning: We will work toward that end. Merrill: Council? (Speakers unknown): Yeah. De Weerd: Before it gets to a more formal public hearing process, I do think it would be advantageous for staff that two Mayors and the two Council Presidents to have that dialogue first and I know I am volunteering the Council Presidents' time for this, but I do think that that probably is the most appropriate first step, rather than a formal process involving (inaudible-----). Merrill: That is a good idea to flush it out. De Weerd: Yeah, to flush it out there and then start bringing that to the public. Meridian City Council & Eagle City Council Special Meeting February 21,2006 Page 22 of 23 Bastian: Mayors? Merrill: Stan. Bastian: I think there is a two issue piece here and one is the bench area, which I think we have an agreement on and we can go forward with the Memorandum of Understanding on - De Weerd: We are way ahead of you. We (inaudible--------------). Bastian: The other area, I think requires a couple of things. One, I think both the Eagle City Council and the Meridian City Council, the Mayors and Councils need to have a presentation made, a factual one based upon how these areas concern the citizens. Bird: I think when the Council Presidents and the Mayors get together (inaudible- ---) and the Eagle Sewer District and figure it out. We can all sewer everything, it just depends on how big of a lift you want. De Weerd: We agree on that. (Inaudible---). Merrill: Cool and thank you so much. This is good. De Weerd: We appreciate you coordinating our staffs (inaudible-----). Merrill: I just never want to go through what we have been through again, ever. I hope you don't have to either. Bastian: Do we need a motion to adjourn? Bandy: I move we adjourn. Bastian: Second. Merrill: All those in favor? ALL AYES. MOTION CARRIED. De Weerd: The same for our Council. Borton: I move we adjourn. Bird: Second. Meridian City Council & Eagle City Council Special Meeting February 21, 2006 Page 23 of 23 De Weerd: All those in favor. THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT. MOTION CARRIED. MEETING ADJOURNED AT 1:04 P.M. (TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS) APPROVED: .3 / Z--I / Il 6 DA TE APf;~~~~J"J"f " ~j "0' .0/"'" " ~~ 'J!A -/ <:" à~~Ì" --1.~"-~ .:::- r Ð. -:;.. :j v ~ E:~-,..:~',,~ "-