HomeMy WebLinkAbout2022-01-18 Work Session Item#1.
Meridian City Council Work Session January 18, 2022.
A Meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 4:31 p.m., Tuesday, January
18, 2022, by Mayor Robert Simison.
Members Present: Robert Simison, Joe Borton, Luke Cavener, Treg Bernt, Jessica
Perreault, Brad Hoaglun and Liz Strader.
Also present: Chris Johnson, Bill Nary, Steve Siddoway, Scott Colaianni, Joe Bongiorno
and Dean Willis.
ROLL-CALL ATTENDANCE
Liz Strader _X_ Joe Borton (a:ss p.m.)
_X_ Brad Hoaglun _X_Treg Bernt
X Jessica Perreault _X Luke Cavener
_X_ Mayor Robert E. Simison
Simison: Council, we will call the meeting to order. For the record it is January 18th,
2022, at 4:31 p.m. We will begin this afternoon's work session with roll call attendance.
ADOPTION OF AGENDA
Simison: Next item up is the adoption of the agenda.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: On our agenda this evening we do need to add -- or it has been added a dollar
amount to Item 17 and that amount is 455,240 dollars. So, Mr. Mayor, I move to adopt
the agenda as amended. I'm sorry. Yeah. That's right. As amended.
Bernt: Second.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to adopt the agenda as amended. Is there
discussion? If not, all in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay? The ayes have it
and the motion to adopt the agenda as amended is adopted.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
CONSENT AGENDA [Action Item]
1. Approve Minutes of the January 4, 2022 City Council Regular Meeting
2. Brody Square Subdivision Water Main Easement No. 1
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3. Hill's Century Farm Commercial Subdivision No. 2 Sanitary Sewer and
Water Main Easement No. 1
4. Holiday Inn Express Pedestrian Pathway Easement
5. McDermott Village Subdivision North Crossing Sanitary Sewer
Easement
6. McDermott Village Subdivision South Crossing Sanitary Sewer
Easement
7. Ten Mile Storage Water Main Easement No. 1
8. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for Fluid Estates Subdivision
(SHP-2021-0008) by Idaho Survey Group, Located at 3110 W Quintale
Dr.
9. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for Woodcrest Townhomes (H-
2021-0015 and H-2021-0082) by Blaine A. Womer Civil Engineering,
Located at 1789 N. Hickory Way
10. Final Order for Biltmore Estates Subdivision Time Extension (TECC-
2021-0001) by Engineering Solutions, Generally Located 1/4 Mile
South of W. Victory Rd. and 1/2 Mile West of S. Meridian Rd.
11. Final Order for Gander Creek North No. 2 (FP-2021-0051) by Kent
Brown Planning Services, Located on the South Side of W. McMillan
Rd., West of N. McDermott Rd.
12. Final Order for Gander Creek North No. 3 (FP-2021-0052) by Kent
Brown Planning Services, Located on the South Side of W. McMillan
Rd., Approximately a Half-Mile West of N. McDermott Rd.
13. Final Order for Southridge South Subdivision No. 1 (FP-2021-0059) by
The Land Group, Located on the South Side of W. Overland Rd., '/4 Mile
East of S. Ten Mile Rd.
14. Final Order for Winco Wells No. 1 (FP-2021-0057) by The Land Group,
Located at 2700 E. Overland Rd.
15. Dog Licensing Designee Agreements Between the City of Meridian
and Meridian Canine Rescue, Meridian Veterinary Hospital, Pet Care
Clinic, and Settler's Park Veterinary Hospital
16. Professional Services Agreement Between the City of Meridian and
Crime Stoppers of Southwest Idaho
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17. Task Order 10036.g WRRF Sidestream Phosphorus Removal Project —
Services During Construction
18. Resolution No. 22-2305: A Resolution of the Mayor and the City
Council of the City of Meridian Approving the City Council President's
Appointments of City Council Members to Serve as Department
Liaisons, and Providing an Effective Date
Simison: Next item up is the Consent Agenda.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: We don't have any changes to the -- to the Consent Agenda, so I move to
approve the Consent Agenda, for the Mayor to sign and the Clerk to attest.
Bernt: Second the motion.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to approve the Consent Agenda. Is there any
discussion? If not, all in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay. The ayes have it and
the Consent Agenda is agreed to.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
ITEMS MOVED FROM THE CONSENT AGENDA [Action Item]
Simison: There are no items moved from the Consent Agenda.
DEPARTMENT / COMMISSION REPORTS [Action Item]
19. Resolution No. 21-2300: A Resolution of the Mayor and City Council of
the City of Meridian to Repeal and Replace the City of Meridian
Standard Operating Policy and Procedure Manual to Establish a New
Standard Operating Policy Manual; and Providing an Effective Date
Simison: So, we will go on to Department/Commission Reports and Item 19, which is
Resolution No. 21-2300, and turn this over to Mr. Nary.
Nary: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council. So, I thought with the mic issues
over there I would just come up here. You have in front of you again the resolution to
adopt the policy manual that you have had for a couple months. We have completed the
process with the collective labor agreement. They had an opportunity to review it. They
have no comments on it. So, it is before you. We did get some questions that, hopefully,
we answered for Council Member Borton. Just some real operational types of questions.
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But do you have any other questions? Concerns? Ready to move forward? What's your
pleasure?
Simison: Thank you, Bill. Council, questions for Mr. Nary?
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Bill, my only question is just about revisions, edits, changes. Do those occur
on kind of a -- an ad hoc basis, kind of leadership team says, hey, we haven't updated
this in a while, it's probably good that we do that, or is there a plan in place to review this
on an annual or semi-annual basis, something along those lines?
Nary: So, great question, Councilman Cavener, and -- and I can add Crystal maybe to
the conversation. At the moment right now we have a policy on how policies get formed.
Generally it has been an ad hoc basis where we have an issue, whether it's a procedure
or whether it's a policy or we ran into a situation that policy doesn't cover and we have
seen a few of those over the years. We have had people that won a prize and we have
to address that. We had a situation where people brand new on the job and there was
nothing to cover donation of leave. So, we have done it when situations arise that just
doesn't speak to how do we address this. So, that happens. Occasionally we have had
departments that have said, hey, we keep running into this particular problem
operationally, but it's beyond just a department issue and that may come to the directors
meeting for a conversation and, then, we would begin the process that way. So, it really
isn't, you know, a periodic overview of change or looking to fix problems or address things
that aren't broken, it really is brought to the attention from a department level normally or
something, again, comes up, never was anticipated, first time, and the question usually
comes first do we need a policy or we just address it? And sometimes we just address it
and, then, we decide maybe at the director level or from the Mayor that we should
probably put this in place. This may come up again. We have never had it anticipated.
We should probably address it for the long term.
Cavener: Thank you, Bill.
Simison: And if I could add, if there is a federal policy change part of that's what Crystal
would bring forward if there is something, you know, through --through that to bring those
changes into it.
Nary: Yeah. And primarily those tend to be some law changes, obviously, like some
things in the discrimination policy were related to legal changes that have happened in
the last few years. Primarily what's happened a lot procedurally where it's mileage with
IRS; right? There is an annual review by the IRS. So, that's a change that's done
annually, but it's all procedural, so it's really just following if FLSA changes or IRS
regulations change, that kind of stuff.
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Cavener: Okay. Great. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Thanks, Bill.
Simison: Council, additional questions for Mr. Nary or Ms. Ritchie?
Nary: Okay. Thank you.
Simison: Thank you.
Johnson: Mr. Mayor, just want to let you know Councilman Borton is here now.
Simison: Okay. Councilman Borton, we -- we are on Item 19 regarding the Resolution
No. 21-2300 for the policy and procedure. Didn't know if you had any questions or
comments for Mr. Nary or Ms. Ritchie.
Borton: Thanks. Sorry. I'm -- I'm driving in. I will be there in about 20 minutes. So, I
had just questions I sent off to Crystal. I don't know if she covered those in response.
Just trying to -- I just something -- overriding concern was what's coming off of Council's
plate and some things made more sense than others, so I sent over a list to her of
questions and I don't know if those things got covered or not and just to see if -- if what I
was finding was correct and --
Nary: So, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, I could probably --
Borton: -- go through that list.
Nary: Yeah. So, I could probably add to that, Joe. So, the majority of the questions that
Joe asked are related to questions that you have all had in the past related to financial
considerations. Like there is a policy that allows for vacation, but the amount of vacation
is listed in the procedure. There is a policy that allows for vacation rollover and the amount
is in the procedure and as we have told Councilman Borton and told you previously, again,
all of those financial considerations have to be funded, so they can't change without
funding. We can't just simply give people a hundred hours of vacation every month, we
can't simply just let people roll over a thousand hours of vacation or sick leave, because
there is no funding to pay for any of it without your approval. So, the reason it's separated
is because, again, the policy that we -- that we have this isn't likely to change as often as
what we can afford to do. So, instead of putting in policy like you could use well over X
amount of vacation a year, it's in the procedure, because it's based on funding. If the
funding is zero, then, the procedure will change to zero. If the funding is increased from
what it is currently, then, it will get increased in the procedure. So, it's all driven by the
budget. One of the other questions that Council -- again, Council Member Borton, please,
stop me if -- if I'm mischaracterizing your question, but that was the gist of some of them
was that -- it was based on the financial considerations and, hopefully, that was an
adequate answer. The other question was operationally there are certain things that the
Mayor can do that the Mayor has the authority to do that policy doesn't really drive that.
For example, I think Councilman Borton's question -- let's see. Standards of conduct is
one. So, the -- the standard of conduct -- is it in a -- is a policy, but all the conduct that's
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-- that's outlined are all procedural. Those are all operational issues on conduct. So,
that's -- that's why that's within the purview of the Mayor. Another question that
Councilman Borton asked that I don't recall it's in the list, but had -- had been a question
that was requested -- was asked was could the Mayor -- and it's never this mayor; right?
It's never this fire chief. It's never this mayor. It's never this council. But could a mayor
at some point in the future change the game? Close City Hall on Fridays? Fire every
employee except for those who can't be fired by -- without Council action? Unfortunately,
the answer is yes. The Mayor could. If you had a policy that says the mayor can't do
that, can the mayor do it? Yes, because I don't know how you would penalize them for
that. So, could bad things happen in bad situations? Yeah, that certainly could. I think
there is repercussions everywhere for that and other cities around the state have had
situations that I know of from other city attorneys, where they have had elected officials,
whether it be council members or mayors, that have gone rogue and have gone very off
track and put the city in a negative way for a little while. Again, there is consequences.
There is impacts. There is other ways that those kind of things get addressed. Policy
isn't going to answer that for you anyway, because, again, if the mayor wanted to ignore
the policy and did whatever they wanted to do, they probably could to some degree. State
code is pretty broad on authority of mayors and very narrow on authorities of the councils.
So, it does tend to look at the code that the mayor has a great deal of authority on a
variety of different things that are not specifically lined out or, you know, mapped out on
every single nuance that could happen. So, could bad things happen? Yes. Is policy
going to save you there? No. So, I don't see the need to address them in policy, because
I'm not sure that's really where the answer is anyway. But, anyway, if that answers your
question -- because, Councilman Borton, I don't know if that was where you are going,
but that was the gist of the questions that I looked at and -- and responded.
Borton: Sorry, I'm changing lanes here. It is somewhat -- I mean just a practical function
of some of these things being budgetary items, I mean some are, some aren't, and there
is often capacity within existing budget. I just don't see realistically some of these things
coming to Council pending Council approval. For example, things like vacation days,
that's not -- that's not something that's budgetary necessarily and would come to Council
if you are going to change or expand vacation days. So, as it's existed some of these
things that are in policy historically have required Council to address them and I'm not
certain all of them would always come back before Council as -- within a budget, it just
doesn't feel like that's what's ultimately happening necessarily. Now, it still may be fine to
proceed, we may be comfortable with it, but just didn't think all of these are items that are
going to come -- a change that would be tentative pending a budget approval line item.
That's all. That was kind of the reason for the concern that it is sort of an eyes wide open
that these changes do remove from policy, which officially removes from City Council's
purview, a bunch of different components that historically we have always had an eye on,
so --
Nary: Council Member Borton and Members of the Council, I mean, again, I agree with
you in principle. I mean we think very much alike; right? We live in a world, Councilman
Borton and 1, of worst case scenario. What's the worst thing that could happen and is
there a way to guard against that and in this situation I mean, again, one, I think there is
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trust. I mean there is --there definitely is necessity to have trust between elected officials.
No doubt between the office of the mayor and office of the city council there has to be
some level of trust between both of those for things to function properly. Are things
budgetary? You know, in many they are. To some degree they are budgetary. I mean,
for example, if the mayor decided tomorrow that instead of accumulating vacation at the
rate we currently do it, we are going to increase vacation to every employee a hundred
fold. No budgetary implication tomorrow. It is the day somebody leaves and we have got
to pay him for it. There is a budget for that. There is no money budgeted to do that. That
has to come out of salaries and that's where we come from. There is not enough salaries
to make that up. If you had overrun that without the budget -- again, Mr. Lavoie would
probably be the better person than myself to answer, but there is a budget for that. All of
you know we may have a budget for certain types of things, but you still see a budget
request to buy a car, a budget request to buy specific items because of the value of them
and because there is not money budgeted for that specifically. So, I think you are still
going to see -- because you have lots of eyes on your budget, not just yourselves, you
have Mr. Lavoie, you have all of the directors, you have the Mayor, certainly -- again I'm
never going to say bad things can't happen. I worked at a place that it did. But there are
always people looking at what you are doing, how you are doing it, and who's doing it that
I still think there is some level of transparency--whether or not the policy is going to drive
it -- again, policy is not law, so the policies themselves are just ways to run the business
on a daily basis, operate it in a smooth way, give employees some comfort level that there
is some order in how we do things and I don't really foresee that going off the rails and
when it does, trust me, someone will say this is wrong and someone is going to say
somebody needs to deal with this. So, that's the best answer I can give you.
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: I -- I appreciate that explanation. I --just one last question. I would love to hear
what other Council Members and you, Mr. Mayor -- your position on -- on all of these
changes, but the last question was -- I just don't recall a time that having to come before
Council for a change in some of these items that are proposed to become procedures
where it's coming before Council and it's got bogged down and either Council didn't
understand it or split vote on something and it became a problem that necessitates
solving. I didn't -- I don't recall it being cumbersome addressing a policy change to
Council. That's the last question I had. Just -- any thoughts on that?
Nary: Well, I guess the best answer I can give you, Councilman Borton, is I'm hopeful by
the time it gets to you -- all of you it isn't cumbersome. That we have ironed out all the
wrinkles so that it isn't problematic. It's the getting there over something -- because the
decision point has to be made. For example, if a federal law changed -- like, for example,
on harassment policy, we have been following federal law that does not align with our
policy, because our policy is out of align with the law. So, we just do it. We follow what
the law requires, because we have to and, then, the policy catches up to it. That's not a
good practice and we don't do very much. Sometimes we don't have a choice, because
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the process of bringing it forward, going through the director team, coming in front of you,
going through work session, getting it on for that, if you -- say you missed it and you didn't
have a meeting, you didn't have a quorum, you had a 5th Tuesday and, then, you are four
weeks past when you needed to have done this and you are just doing it anyway. So,
don't -- I agree with you in general by the time it comes to the elected body it's not
problematic. It's ironed all that out ahead of time and, again, trying to create a sense of
order between what are the rules of the game and how are we going to apply those rules.
Borton: Okay. I get it. That's just -- that's what gave me some hesitation as if we were
able to adjust procedure promptly to address the nuance needed. We can -- we could
adjust policy just the same, quite frankly. If we got to change it we got to change it, be
quick and current, so I appreciate the explanation. That was just some of my reservation
on it. I might have missed it earlier on I apologize, Mr. Mayor, but I'm going to be quiet
and park here and, then, come in, but I would love to hear everyone else's thoughts or
questions and yours as well.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor, I -- I totally agree that -- that Council shouldn't be involved, you know,
really, generally speaking, with the operational policies in the city. You know, I think that
it's -- it's always been -- you know, the operations of the city, you know, minus directors I
guess you could say, though, it's never been under the purview of City Council, it's always
been in the Mayor's office. So I get that. But all other policies we should be involved with
and my -- my question is the change between what -- you know, or not necessarily
change, but what the difference is between a policy and a procedure. It seems like in this
new policy manual -- policy is more of like a statement, you know, like this is what -- you
know, this is -- this is -- whatever the policy is, and, then, the nuts and bolts of that policy
is now what's called the procedures and, technically, from what I have heard and learned,
procedures aren't under the purview of City Council anymore. It's totally under the
Mayor's preview and that's ultimately what I have a concern with. I -- and so I guess
which leads me to my next question -- will Council have influence over nonoperational
policies and procedures as well or are we only going to be involved with the statement --
the blanket like mission statement, I guess, of what the -- the policy is versus what the
policy is all about and -- and I -- and I don't know if that's necessarily what has taken place
before.
Nary: So, Council Member Bernt and Members of the Council and Mr. Mayor, so, again,
I think -- I'm trying to think of a time that, again, anything that didn't have any financial
impact of any kind didn't come back to this body for some reason and the ones I can give
you the best example -- so, the travel policy. Policy basically says we need to travel for
work purposes periodically and we will do it at the least expensive route to the public and
make sure that the public is basically given their fair treatment of their dollars.
Bernt: Right.
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Nary: Makes sense. But how people travel, when we travel, there is so many different
nuances to travel today is a great example that we tried to handle a lot of those in policy
that does conflict with the procedure -- because the procedure -- or the policy never
contemplated that and everything which we did differently all the way to procedure,
whether it was early check ins, late check ins, stay an extra day, don't stay an extra day,
which is cheaper to fly, which hotel -- all of those things are procedurally related, because
somebody has to make these reservations and carry them out. To proceed the policy of
saying we allow people to travel for business on the city's dime, that didn't change.
Nothing about that changed. It was how we did it, because things changed. So, that's
kind of where the conversation started is there is a lot of things that are very suddenly
changed in the procedure of how we do it -- the rule of doing it doesn't change at all and
clearly that's not there. But do we stop and not do any of these things until we get through
this process -- which sometimes can take three, four, or five weeks and just keep doing it
wrong or differently or poorly when it's all just procedure. It's pieces of paper. It's fill out
this document and not that one. Send this one to Finance, not that one. Bring receipts.
Don't bring receipts. I mean a lot of that stuff felt like procedural things that, really, the
Council is not really that overly concerned or engaged with on whether or not we file a
receipt or not, but Finance does. They care. So, those are the things that drove the
discussion on should we separate these out. So, clearly, the Council is always going to
review the policies and anything to do with financial costs to the city is always going to
get the Council's feedback, because there is a funding mechanism that's necessary to
make that happen and whether it's in the front end or the back end it doesn't matter, again,
our checkbook is open to the public. So, that was the intent, Council Member Bernt,
honestly. That's all it was.
Bernt: Right. And I don't know if this is necessary -- Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: And, honestly, though, I don't know if this is necessarily -- I don't know if this
necessarily has anything to do with the trust per se and, you know, I trust the Mayor, I
trust you, you know, I trust Crystal, whatever. But this is -- you know, we have -- we have
great administration in our city right now, but that --what happens in the future when, you
know, we have a mayor after Mayor Simison and that mayor is like, no, going forward,
you know, you guys deal with the policy, we are dealing with the procedures, therefore,
you guys won't have any input on what that looks like and so my decision not necessarily
has to do with what it looks like in today's climate at City Hall, because I think we are
doing a good job, generally speaking, what that looks like in future councils and future
mayors and future administrate -- you know, the administration. So, that's -- that's what
-- that's what I have concerns with. I feel like there has been some changes that are
taking our influence away in what we had -- and what are -- what we once had purview
over and we don't need anymore and I know that if I had a question for Mr. Mayor, I know
that he would allow us to deliberate and he would take time to discuss -- I'm -- it has
nothing to do with you, has just -- you know, it's just -- it's just that you say, you know, you
have to trust us and, you know, what -- in my role that -- you know, that's like red flags,
you know. That -- that brings up a red flag, you know, and so not that it -- not that I don't
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trust you, it's just that going forward I want to make sure that the rules are very clear and
I'm not sure if I like where the rules are in this policy manual.
Nary: So, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Bernt, I guess my answer
to that is the one biggest control the Council always has is what's on your agenda. Your
agenda -- or what you want to talk about as a Council is always within your control. The
Mayor has to set it --
Bernt: Right.
Nary: -- with the Council President, but if four of you make an motion -- if one of you
makes a motion and it gets seconded and four of you vote to add an item to talk about
this policy that you don't like how it's being carried out and you want to know what it's
about and your answer that you get back from the Mayor is none of your business, see
you later, I think you would have a problem.
Bernt: Yeah.
Nary: Well, then, keep talking about it every week until we get to the bottom of that
problem.
Bernt: Right.
Nary: So, I think you definitely still have a level of control, because you control this
conversation. The other thing is we have to have trust, because the reality is if I'm not
carrying out the policy correctly or Crystal or anybody, you can fire me, because you can.
Bernt: True.
Nary: So, you have great authority over where we spend our money, what we say the
rules of the game are, what those rules are and I believe you are going to always have
input on what those rules are and how they are getting carried out. There are things that,
again, probably aren't of any great interest to you.
Bernt: True.
Nary: Juneteenth is a great example; right? Did we have to get a full holiday for
Juneteenth last year? No. We knew, no, we didn't have to. The Mayor chose to, but he
spoke to you about it to know that was the right decision point to do that and there are
impacts to how our leave is carried out, our services are carried out, the risk-cost to that
and we need to, then, put that into a motion for the future. So, again, I don't foresee it.
And as I stated earlier and I know it doesn't sound great, but policy is policy and literally
it's a piece of paper. If the Mayor chooses to ignore it, I'm not sure what other ways --
you can't get courts to come and support you, unless the law gives you that support.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
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Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: I'm in somewhat of agreement with Council Member Bernt's comments, I guess.
I don't know if Council Member Bernt thought about this. What -- what the solution is;
right? Because I -- I hear what you are saying, I just -- I'm not -- sorry, Mr. Mayor? Sorry.
Simison: I want to propose a solution --
Cavener: Oh.
Simison: -- because I have made this comment to a few others and -- identify the policies
that you have a challenge with that you think are important to not change. Tell Legal. We
will pull them out and we will move everything else forward. If -- but you have to tell us
which ones you have problems with. You know, if they exist. This is a process that started
three and a half to four years ago. I said let's finish it -- either get it done or throw it out,
so that we are no longer on Crystal and Bill's plate to make this happen. So, I'm -- I
believe in the things that are out there that are being proposed, but if Council has issues
with some, tell us which ones they are, pull them out and if we only can move half of them
forward, then we will move half of them forward. If there is four that matter to Council,
identify those four. What -- what are they? If it's a global perspective -- again, Todd,
tomorrow everyone is going to get full time administrative time off for the rest of the year.
Do I got that permission? Is that okay under the policy? Exactly. And just to Bill's point.
Cavener: Sure.
Simison: I can do that under the policy. Would I? No. So -- and I'm glad Councilman
Bernt said one thing. He actually said future councils as well. You know, that -- they can
be the problem in the future on these issues, especially when it comes down to, nah, we
want to change how you post on Facebook. Again, assuming they going to follow what
council says about how we post on Facebook? I don't know, what are the repercussions
of that, versus somebody else? So, there is definitely things in these policies which really
aren't necessarily, in my opinion, should -- to Council's purview be oversight about how
we go through the process of establishing who has a Facebook page and who doesn't
and -- I think we all can agree there is elements of this that deserve to be separated. But
at the end of the day you guys tell us which ones you got a challenge with, pull them off,
and we will leave as is from my perspective. But I think that -- I don't see the general
overarching issues from my perspective about, yes, this is what a policy is. A policy is a
statement on what we believe or state. Everything else is how we go about handling and
doing our business.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Just for clarification, that's kind of where my initial question started from is that
at any point in time if any member of Council has a question or concern about a particular
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policy or the way it's written we can bring that up at that next week City Council meeting;
right? I mean this is not an exercise that is going to be revisited five years from now, it's
liquid that if any member of Council wants to dive into it they have the ability to do so;
correct?
Simison: I don't know what that means in the context you are -- you are discussing,
but --
Cavener: I guess, Mr. Mayor, just for clarification, kind of to your point saying, if Council
has got issues with a particular policy that we can pull it out today, but if -- if something
changes or a policy is brought to light that maybe a Council Member is uncomfortable
with, they could bring that up for revision or discussion at a Council meeting whenever
they want.
Simison: To work it through the Council President -- I mean, yes, absolutely.
Cavener: Okay. Thanks.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Just to weigh in, you know, oftentimes where I see the conflict is interpretation
of the policy. A lot of times the policy is set and, then, there is interpretation to take care
of vacation example and, you know, board says, hey, this is the policy, this is what you
can do -- you know, what -- what we intended to do and, then, it's interpreted a certain
way and it goes beyond and, then, the board -- or in this case the Council would come
back and say, well, wait a minute, we need to refine that if that's what you think, but -- and
I don't think that's -- that's -- that's a conflict. The other is sometimes you create a policy
and under the procedures portion sometimes organizations will take the procedures and
can modify policy based on how they do the procedures. So, there is a conflict there. So,
I think -- and those aren't issues you can put into the policies and procedures right now
and say, okay, everything is going to work. It depends on the individuals interpreting it or
what they want to achieve. So, then, we just have to pay attention and, then, maybe
that's some of the issues. How do we know what procedures are moving forward? Even
though we set the policy. Procedures -- Bill, you have defined it I think accurately. Is that
something we need to pay attention to as the procedures as they are enacted and, if so,
how do -- how do we do that? It's not necessarily the policies, but how do we make sure
the procedures follow the policies that --that we enacted and they are implemented in the
way we intended?
Simison: It sounds like the Idaho legislature administrative rules review. If that's the
direction you are recommending --
Hoaglun: No, Mr. Mayor.
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Simison: -- I would say leave the policy and procedure as is and don't bother.
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: To that point, though, that's for better or for worse, one of the distinctions that
what would -- what would change in the future with procedure never would come to
Council; right? That process would always be internal. We would never see how the
procedure is modified.
Nary: Generally -- generally, no. Could it be brought? Absolutely. It could always be
wrought. If -- if -- my experience has been if a procedure is changed to the detriment of
someone someone will tell you, because that tends to happen. So, I don't foresee that
without it being daylighted somewhere, because, again, I have great confidence that --
between the Mayor and the directors that you are not going to have a concern. If you
would prefer that at least when procedures get changed you can at least see them. I'm
fine with that. I have no issue with that. But, again, many times it's going to be file this
piece of paper, not that piece of paper. You are probably not going to get that worked up
about it.
Simison: For perspective of -- policies and procedures would be on HR's website.
Everybody would still have access to them at all times. We could still do our affirmative
response. Everyone's required to read them every year, including Council, and -- and
have people weigh in on those issues when they come up or are challenges --
Borton: Right.
Simison: -- and I --you know, I get where Council is coming from. I truly do. I understand
the giving up -- whether real or perceived -- influence on issues of significance. How
many of these are really significant in your view? How many of you have reviewed the
policies and procedures over the last ten years to determine whether or not a department
is following those policies or procedures and brought them up? I only ask -- you know, I
don't need you all to answer that question. I'm just trying to put it in perspective for realism
and applicability and where you want to invest your time and energy and resources.
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Borton: Oh.
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
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Strader: (Unintelligible).
Simison: Whatever you said.
Strader: I said (unintelligible).
Hoaglun: What did she say?
Perreault: She said she thinks we should run everything through the City Council agenda.
Strader: The Consent Agenda.
Simison: The Consent Agenda.
Strader: (Unintelligible).
Nary: So, I guess, Council Member Strader, does that mean your preference is to leave
it the way it is? Because that's what happens now. Everything comes through and so
whether or not it's a consent item or a discussion item really doesn't make any difference.
That's the way it currently is. And as the Mayor said, if there is specific ones you guys
have concern with, let's just iron those out. Let's just take them out and we will take the
procedures -- if -- I will just pick a random one. Sick leave benefits. If that's concerning
to many of you, all of you, most of you, whatever, and you would prefer the sick leave
benefit policy include the statement of what exactly sick leave is and how much you get
and what you get to do with it, well, we will put it in the policy and move on with life. That's
fine. I mean -- but if the vacation -- or the travel policy -- and you don't want to care which
piece of paper we file, leave what we have proposed. I mean it's not that -- it doesn't
have to be very complicated, but if you have concerns -- and, like I said, Council Member
Borton raised probably six to eight -- they all have a little bit of sprinkling of financial
considerations in them. If every -- six, eight of them you want those in -- all in policy, fine,
we will do it, that's no big deal.
Simison: Or no -- or put in there -- no -- no procedure may be changed on this policy
without review by City Council.
Nary: Yeah.
Simison: You know, if those are the ones that, you know, you want to see and we can
identify those. But I'm -- I hope you understand I'm -- it's not this way or the highway, I
just want this project done one way or the other. That's -- that's -- that's where I am. And
I think that this is the best way to get us there long term, but --
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
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Perreault: Since I was HR liaison last year I did read through every single line of the new
proposed changes and, obviously, doing this for the first time I asked Crystal a lot of
questions about the context that I should have. What -- what eyes am I supposed to be
using as I'm reviewing this and I -- I didn't notice -- all -- I paid attention to what was lined
out, as much as what was added, and I didn't -- I didn't feel like there was a lot that was
being taken out of the -- you know, there wasn't -- it didn't -- I didn't get the impression
there was a lot being removed from the existing policies, although I understand Council
-- Councilman Bernt's point about it -- that seems like these are just statements that are
being made and we don't have a lot of meat to the policies. But I didn't notice significant
changes being removed from the policies. I noticed it was -- it seemed like it was -- it was
summarizing things a little bit better. Maybe trying to make some more concise wording.
What was missing for me was -- what I didn't know was in changing this policy and -- and
how its worded and -- and what it's intending to address, where did that -- where did that,
then, change the procedure and what's going to be the cascading effect for the procedure
in how this policy has changed? That wasn't provided to us and it's possible it wasn't
provided because we don't know yet exactly how about -- the -- how behavior will change
based on the policies being more of statements and summaries. So, one of -- you know,
if-- if it's -- for me to answer this question I feel like I would need to get more familiar with
the procedures and I'm happy to do that if that would be helpful to make this decision,
but I didn't get the impression reading through line by line that the policies were so
significantly changing that it would take away something from City Council. The -- the
policies that -- where I thought that might happen I had discussions with Crystal about
those, sent her long lists of questions and felt like my answers were, you know, mostly --
you know, that they were mostly answered. So, this is a really good conversation for me
to hear what fellow Council is sharing, having -- especially those having more experience
on what -- as I'm looking through all of these policy changes I need a bigger context of
what it is I'm supposed to be seeing, what it is I could possibly be missing.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: As you can see we are a little all over the map on this. I know you want to get
this done, but I think if -- if we could defer this, have Council do further research, have
conversations and see what we need to -- need to do to -- to move this forward. I mean
we need to resolve it. So, I don't know if it takes a week or two weeks, but kick this can
down the road and make sure we -- we can come to agreement not keep going around in
circles I think, so --
Nary: Certainly fine by us. I would ask you in the interim to take a look at the preamble.
I rewrote the preamble. Hopefully, that's some of what your concerns are because of the
-- because of these concerns and you had expressed them before and I tried to create
that in the book to make sure that it was clear to people how you apply this and who
needs to see it and when and why. So, I tried to capture that. Certainly, again, I'm not
going to say I'm the wordsmith of the world, so it's certainly a way to address it, but we
are -- I mean we are not in a hurry to get it wrong. We would like to get it the way you
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would feel the most comfortable with it and, again, we had it in place for 20 years without
really looking at the structure. We just kept changing it over and over and every time we
change it we said this kind of procedure. This is the policy. The policy is the same, it's
just how we do it. So, that was kind of what drove the conversation. But if we need a
couple of weeks and come back that's perfectly fine.
Simison: If I could just add one thing -- and try to put this all back in context here. We --
historically we have asked all of our employees to read this and under -- read and attest
to the information in this document. Now, the patrol officer who is never going to travel,
do they need to understand our travel policy? Not until they need to travel. But do we
need -- do we expect them -- so, I think they are just like looking at this from the -- we
want people to understand the big picture. Oh, yeah, I remember there is a policy on that
and if they need to go further they will learn and read it. So, this is almost separating out
the bigger items from the little items and, then, when you need the little items you go find
the little items that are relevant, because it's not -- well, it's for the entire city. Not
everything in here is applicable to everybody in the city and how it is what they are
expected to know in a lot of ways. So, there is a lot of -- there is value if we expect our
employees or our City Council Members or Mayor to know what's in these documents to
make it clear what's important for people to know about. So, I would ask each of our City
Council Members -- we can continue this over two weeks. Please get together with
Crystal and Bill and identify how you want to move forward or not. If there are certain
ones that you don't want to see changed, if there is an overarching statement in the
preamble that captures -- if you just want to leave it as is, so they can make a direction
based on those conversations with you all on what they think is -- I would normally make
the Council President -- get you all into alignment, but I think that you are going to need
-- are going to need you to help figure that out. So, push that out over the next two weeks.
If you don't have any issues, send them a note that says I have no issues, I'm fine with
whatever Council -- the rest of Council decides on this topic.
Nary: Thank you.
Simison: Okay. Thank you.
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: As we close the loop on that, the questions -- there is -- there is just a lot of this
that's separated that makes great sense and the reasoning that Bill and Crystal have
discussed and we have talked about it a little bit as well, it all makes sense. So, there is
-- there may be some -- certainly I'm going to have a few that I think should remain in
policy and I will bring those in a couple weeks, send it out to the group or through Crystal
to the group, but it doesn't mean that the remainder of the work wasn't of great value and
so -- we are on the two yard line here. Maybe a couple of weeks to allow us -- so, I -- the
Mayor, your suggestion of doing it that way is appreciated.
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20. Parks and Recreation Department: Lakeview Golf Course 2022 Pricing
Discussion
Simison: Okay. All right. Thank you very much. With that we will move on to Item 20
with the Parks and Recreation Department Lakeview Golf Course 2020 pricing
discussion.
Siddoway: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council. Chris is -- while Chris is
bringing up the presentation I will just make a quick overview. First of all, I'm here to
discuss the Lakeview Golf Course fees. But we are -- I'm not asking you for approval of
any of those fees tonight. What I am asking for is your feedback on which version of the
fees to publish for a public hearing. So, there is still a public hearing and future approval
yet to come. We would just like to have some direction on what to publish for -- for that
public hearing. Well, let's see, it's been about 14 months now since we took over
operations of the -- the golf course and as you know we have been making a lot of
progress on the deferred maintenance. We have also had -- thanks to Kemper and their
diligent efforts been able to make great strides in increasing the customer satisfaction out
there as evidenced by the results of their continuous surveys, but one of the things that
we have seen -- and it won't come to any surprise to anyone -- is that there is a lot of
inflationary pressures out there with costs of both goods and services and labor going up.
We are still at the same fees that we were in 2019 and if we expect to come closer to our
goal of recovering all of the operational costs, then, we need to follow suit and increase
fees in accordance with what we are seeing with inflationary pressures out there. What I
have up here for you right now is, first of all, just kind of an exciting number, that 38,739,
that's a -- if you don't know that's a big number. That's a big number for the -- for the
course. I think they added to that in December since this was prepared, but it's -- it's been
a good year. There has also been a lot of cost. The -- the list over on the left is -- kind of
summarizes for you a lot of the deferred maintenance that we have been incurring costs
on this year. You can see if you look at the spreadsheet, if you just look at that third
column at the bottom of 76,711, that's really the rolling 12 month deficit that we are at in
the --the operations side of the golf course currently. So, there are two options to propose
to you tonight for additional future discussion. The first is to just take the existing past
structure and basically increase those costs by six percent. You can see this -- this is that
list of passes. There is -- and you can see the 2021 column for what the price has been
this past year where we are proposing that they be increased to this year and this will just
keep the same pass structure that we have today. We do have --you know, some experts
is what I want to call them in -- in -- in Kemper and Ryan, who is out there, and we have
been doing some pretty diligent analysis of where we sit in the market and how fee
structures work across the valley and they have been looking at what they think would be
beneficial to our-- their -- our customers and have proposed a slate of changes that adds
some additional pass types. So, basically, in -- the main change is that -- if you take that
single unlimited or couple unlimited and family unlimited and, then, you add these
restricted ones -- restricted just means Monday through Friday. So, your -- your pass is
good on weekdays, not weekends. You can see that the price for the restricted is actually
less in 2022 than the current unlimited one is in 2021. So, that could be a benefit. You
know, someone pay less next year. But this would be the proposed slate. They have
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also had a lot of interest in senior and military passes. So, those have NA's in the 2021 ,
but a proposed number for 2022 and, yeah, I think -- can't think of anything else to say
about that one right there. The proposed change to green fees is the same in either
option, one or two. Okay? So, basically, it's a six percent across-the-board increase for
green fees with this -- with the -- the seniors being the exception to that. Those have a
smaller increase. Just to lower the impact on our seniors that are out there. So, again,
we have these two proposals. One, keeping the existing pass types. The second one
proposing some new pass types. I think the logical question is would we expect similar
results in the revenue side? The answer to that is yes. The -- the wildcard that we don't
know is how many will choose the restricted versus the unlimited passes and until we go
through that for a year we won't really know. But, in general, we anticipate similar
outcomes either way. With that I'm going to stand for questions.
Simison: Thank you, Steve. Council, questions for Steve?
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: Thank you, Steve. Can you speak to -- on option number two, why the single
and couple unlimited passes would increase to 20 and 21 percent, instead of six percent?
It seems to me like the intention of this would be to move people away from those
unlimited passes and try to get more people to use the restricted passes. Is this an actual
-- like is -- is the -- the 20 percent increase on the unlimited in option two, is there some
financial reason that -- is there costs that need to be made up because of the change in
structure or is it to sort of encourage people to use the restricted pass or --
Siddoway: Yeah. In rough numbers, if you take the 20 percent increase on the unlimited
and the decrease to the restricted, it evens out to be a six percent increase. So, it's similar
as an overall and Ryan, Mike, are both online, if I misstate any of this feel free to raise
your hand and correct any of this, but it's meant to keep it in the same ballpark as an
overall, but to offer that restricted pass and -- and move some people to that to free up
weekend times for those that it works for.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor, follow-up question.
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: My understanding is that we have a lot of season pass holders. Is that -- is
that the case? And do we think this would negatively affect playership by having such a
significant increase on the unlimited passes? We do have a significant number of season
passes. I don't have the number of passes sold, so, Ryan, if you have that and want to
jump in. I do have the total number of rounds played by the different, you know, pass
holders versus rack rate players, et cetera. Basically about 26 percent of the rounds
played were played by passholders this last year, if that helps for context. I think they are
trying to structure in a way that will be beneficial to the -- many of the passholders,
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especially if they prefer that weekday option. I think many of the Mens and Womens
Association players that do have tournaments that play on weekends would necessarily
opt for the -- the one that includes weekends.
Simison: And just for the -- for the note, because I do see our CFO in the background,
these are not cost recovery dollar suggestions that are here that have been worked with
our Finance Department to come up with what the fee can or should be now or in the
future to hit that. These are based on current pricing guestimations, so that -- I mean
that's all I got to give -- I mean splitting the thing in half and assuming half are going to go
one way and half are going to go the other way and you are going to get the same revenue
mark is a guestimation. Who knows. We may go all one way and see a great reduction
in revenue and have that--a lot more people play on Saturdays and make up that revenue
or we go the opposite and rake in the extra cash through this -- through the sales through
that process. So, we don't know what the impacts of this would be. The main point was
trying to recover something with the six percent. The other is really a decision if we want
to try to offer other types of passes to see what type of response we get. Not a cost
recovery basis model though. Just so that's clear.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: I appreciate you kind of leading with that, because that's at least where my
question is is what -- is the six percent, then, just designed to get us kind of competitive
with the other courses that are similar in this market? I know you put the kind of the
market comparison in the packet. That's -- that's really the intent behind this,just to make
sure that we are priced competitively with other courses?
Siddoway: It's a combination of pricing competitively and looking at inflation. I think true
inflation combined over those couple of years is closer to eight percent. So, it's probably
not even a full inflationary adjustment, but we are trying to take -- take it on a bite at a
time.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Especially as we come into having some course reductions as we do --
Siddoway: As we go into irrigation season, with construction and things to come.
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Steve, can you just give us a little flavor of kind of where
the -- the concept for like the -- I kind of call them class subscriptions. So, the senior,
military, why that's being proposed and recommended.
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Siddoway: I think it's interest from people contacting the course. Ryan, if you are online
and want to take that question I will push that on to you.
Roberts: Yeah. Can you hear me?
Simison: Yes, we can.
Roberts: Yeah. It's, again, to be competitive. It's what, you know, other courses are
doing. We get a lot of requests and so this -- this whole structure is just based on to -- to,
one, give people more options. There is a lot of people that don't want to play on the
weekend, so that saves them a little bit of money by doing the restricted. There is people
that-- and, then, also just honor the senior and military as well. So, just give people more
choices and just to be competitive in the market and this puts us, you know, right in the
middle.
Cavener: So -- Mr. Mayor. Steve, I don't know if you are looking for feedback now, later,
kind of when and how you want that provided.
Siddoway: We are looking for feedback -- specifically tonight we need feedback on which
version to -- to publish for public hearing. But we will take any and all feedback you have
got.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: I think it's a slippery slope when you start providing kind of class-based
memberships. Clearly some seniors are on a more fixed income. I think we always want
to appreciate and honor our military men and women. But you open that door for, well,
what else? I'm sure our emergency responders, police and firefighters, would like to see
a -- a break. Teachers do a great job. I'm sure they would like to see -- I just -- I see start
-- if we are -- if we respond to every request we are going to have all sorts of potentials
for tier memberships. I think a single couple unlimited versus restricted, that seems to
make sense. I get just a little more hesitant when we start opening the doors for other --
other groups. So, that's -- I know you have kind of given us two options and I have kind
of created my own --
Siddoway: Which is -- understanding yours, it is, basically, number two without this
senior- military and senior-couple. Just single, couple, family, restricted, unlimited.
Cavener: Couple. Family. Yeah. Restricted. Unrestricted.
Siddoway: And, then, I assume the half price junior and private --
Cavener: Yeah.
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Siddoway: -- cart pass would stay as well, because those are current ones.
Cavener: Yeah.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: Given that there are other courses that have the same structure I'm not
opposed to -- to option number two, except that I don't -- I don't love the 20 percent
increase on the unlimited passes in -- in one year. Is -- is Parks considering doing
increases on an annual basis depending on what the market is allowing for? If not, maybe
we consider increasing it a little more incrementally on those unlimited passes over the
two years time, instead of one year -- one year's time and, then, that will also give us --
you know, kind of figure out -- I mean I understand that you want people to -- you know,
if you only make a 150 dollar difference between the restricted and the unlimited, like why
wouldn't you just buy the unlimited. So, you have to kind of set it up so that there is a
point; right? But I -- I just -- I'm not a fan of the 20 percent increase in one year on those
unlimited passes. So, I don't know if there is a way that we could modify that to be a
lower amount. Otherwise, the categories on option number two I think are great
separations. It looks like there are other courses that have moved that direction, too,
so --
Siddoway: I think at the end of the day I just need a motion and some agreement from
the majority and we will publish whatever Council desires.
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: To that point, I -- I would recommend we publish option two as presented,
understanding that that public hearing gives us a chance to get some feedback or not
from -- whether it's a senior, military community, allows them to participate and we may,
then, decide to shave that off or not. But option two came from the recommendation from
the folks running the course. I like it. My initial reaction was I like it. I think it pays homage
to the -- a lot of the senior community that, frankly, lives around it and funded the pavers
and has given money to do cart paths and plant trees 20 years ago and so I like that it's
considered as a little carve out. But for the public hearing I think option two as presented
is a great starting point and we will see what we hear from the community.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: I agree.
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Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Yeah. Looking at it when you compare it to -- thank you for doing that
spreadsheet, by the way. It sure made it a lot easier, Councilman Borton, for bringing that
up, because a lot of that comparison -- and that's where a lot of these folks go that are
breaking that out further and I think we should as well and go with that option two and
give that to -- to people. People want choices and we are going to give it to them and we
want them to come to our golf course and utilize it, so I think that's a good approach.
Simison: That's three. Do I have one more who wants to publish option two?
Cavener: I can support publishing option two.
Simison: Council Woman Strader, was that a yes from you as well?
Strader: Yes.
Simison: Okay. So, you have your direction, Steve. You are good on how to move
forward in the conversation.
Siddoway: We will publish option two and be back for a public hearing.
EXECUTIVE SESSION per Idaho Code 74-206(1)(d) To consider records that are
exempt from disclosure as provided in Chapter 1, Title 74, Idaho Code.
Simison: Okay. Thank you. Council, we do have one more item on the agenda. My
understanding is that individual can come back at 6:00, if we would like to do Executive
Session now with the staff that's here to make sure we get through that.
Siddoway: If that's possible that would be my request.
Simison: Okay. Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor, I move that we go into Executive Session per Idaho Code 74-
206(1)(d).
Borton: Second.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to go into Executive Session. Is there any
discussion? If not, Clerk will call the roll.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Cavener, yea; Bernt, yea; Perreault, yea; Hoaglun, yea; Strader,
yea.
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Simison: All ayes. Motion carries and we will move into Executive Session.
MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES.
EXECUTIVE SESSION: (5:31 p.m. to 6:00 p.m.)
Simison: Council, do I have a motion to come out of Executive Session?
Hoaglun: Move to come out of Executive Session.
Borton: Second.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to come out of Executive Session. All in favor
signify by saying aye. Opposed nay? The ayes have it and we are out of Executive
Session.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
21. Parks and Recreation Department: Master Plan Update Cost Recovery
Overview
Simison: Continuing with our--with our 4:30 agenda we have one more item to do before
we get to our 6:00 o'clock meeting. So, we are going to move into Item 21, which is the
Parks and Recreation Department master plan update on cost recovery overview and I'm
going to turn this over to Ms. Jackson from GreenPlay.
Jackson: Good evening, Mayor and Council. It's a pleasure to be here with you this
evening. I'm just going to take a moment here to share my screen. First time didn't work.
I'm going to give it a second go. Okay. I believe you should be seeing it now.
Simison: Yes, we see it.
Jackson: Wonderful. Well, hello. My name is Teresa Jackson and I'm with a firm called
BerryDunn, formerly GreenPlay, and we were selected to manage your Parks and
Recreation master plan, as well as a cost recovery study and so this evening Steve asked
me to join him in providing a brief high level overview as to what will be involved in our
cost recovery study. Excuse me. So, our approach to cost recovery is very philosophical
and so we use what we term the pyramid methodology to facilitate the process and the
conversation with both staff and the public. The pyramid methodology was adopted over
20 years ago and it's a management tool that has been used by agencies from coast to
coast. It is, essentially, a benefits continuum. It's a way to take a look at your programs
and consider the benefit that they provide your tax paying community and so as we look
at those programs and services, we look at them and say does it have a high and mostly
community benefit or does an individual benefit come into play? So, the foundation of the
pyramid is really your core programs, things such as your parks, your trails, maybe your
community events and as you move up the pyramid the programs and services that live
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there typically start to introduce this individual benefit. Many programs will have what we
term a balanced benefit that we have in the middle -- it's a little bit of both. It's a benefit
to the community to have youth sports, but there is also an individual benefit to the youth
who are exposed to those sports. But when you get up to the top of the pyramid those
programs are typically things like a private swimming lesson, private tennis lesson, and
maybe some concessions. So, this is the framework that we will use as we work through
the process and we will take a look at all the programs and services that you provide and
we will develop categories of service. So, it's just really a grouping of like things. So,
both the staff, as well as the public, can weigh in on that benefit of the service to the
taxpaying community. So, again, this philosophy really looks at who is benefiting. It
understands the basic level of service are your core programs should be free to the public
or heavily supported by tax dollars. It also recognizes that fees are necessary and
responsible to have a robust park connect portfolio programs -- excuse me -- fees come
into play in order for those programs to be available. It also recognizes that the greatest
-- the greater the individual benefit the higher the cost recovery should be. So, again, this
is just another view of that same concept, really reiterating that community benefit equals
tax dollars. Individual benefit is where fees come into place and the greater the individual
benefit the higher the cost recovery and so that will be the premise of the study. So, this
next slide here -- I just want to briefly give you a high level overview of the process so you
could have a sense of the various steps your team will be taking over the next few months.
So, just today we had the strategic kickoff with the project team and so that meeting is
really to allow me to get a better understanding of the conditions there and to provide an
orientation. Next month I will be sitting down with the programming staff and we will be
doing a similar orientation, but really making sure they have a clear understanding of this
methodology, as well as the process. One thing we really like to establish early on is that
buy in and we will bring as many staff as we can into the fold. So, ultimately, when the
study is delivered and recommendations are put into place staff will have that buy in to
carry them forward. Once we have finished with the orientation that's where we start
developing those categories of service and that is all to gear up for what we term
workshop two and workshop two is where we have both the staff and the public evaluate
those programs and services and place them onto the pyramid and, ultimately, we will be
reconciling what we heard from staff, as well as what we heard from the public in order to
finalize a pyramid and during this workshop two we really do invite all of you to participate.
It's a great opportunity to get some perspective on how the public feels about different
programs and services and to also chime in on your own feelings on those programs. We
have -- during the workshop we put together small working groups, so that people can
really sit and discuss those programs and services, since everybody is coming to the table
with different background, different perspective, and we are really looking to build
consensus through this process. So, as we come out of workshop two, that's where the
really heavy lifting begins in that in order to make recommendations for what future cost
recovery should look like we really have to understand what your current cost recovery
is. So, at this stage we are taking a deep dive into the revenues associated with each
service and we are also taking a look at all the current expenses and allocating them
appropriately to all those programs and services and once we understand current cost
recovery that's where we will sit down with your project team and we will start to develop
goals for the future and each tier level of the pyramid will ultimately have a cost recovery
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goal. That's a range. After those ranges are identified that's where we really have a good
understanding of any key issues that have come up along the way or recommendations
as it relates to how you make those cost recovery goals. Are their incremental changes
that can be made or is there going to be more of a long term approach where over the
next five years you are implementing a three percent fee increase in order to get to a cost
recovery goal. So, once we know where you are at, where those goals are, we will sit
with your team and establish recommendations that are feasible for your community. So,
in closing, just a brief overview, again, of when all of these steps will be taking place.
Currently January and February is all about orientation and for me to understand current
policies and conditions there. As we get into April we will be further engaging the staff,
as well as bringing the public into the fold to chime in and, then, as we get into May that
is the point where we should know your current cost recovery and be setting those goals
in order to deliver the recommendations and study for you in late spring, early summer.
And with that I would really like to just open up to any questions you might have about
the process.
Simison: Thank you, Teresa. Council, any questions?
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Teresa, just a couple of quick questions for you. Who ultimately determines
kind of where something would rank on that pyramid? Is that the -- the kind of focus
groups that you are forming? Is that something that GreenPlay makes a recommendation
on? Is it staff? How is that part determined?
Jackson: Yeah. So, it's a collaboration of staff and the public. So, staff is very familiar
with programs and so they will often put them on a pyramid, because they are looking at
it through the lens of a programmer versus the lens of the taxpaying community and what
they think benefits the community and so we keep the results of each workshop separate,
but, then, we ultimately reconcile the pyramid. So, we identify categories where we had
mismatches. We look at what those mismatches were. We are looking at how the small
group -- public groups scored things from the perspective of using range, mode, and
means. So, we have got some data to work with. But we also have what we heard
through those meetings and so quite often where we will be in a situation where we have,
you know, five to eight categories that are a mismatch between staff and public that we
work through and sometimes the public doesn't fully understand all the intricacies of the
program and so project teams will lean towards what they heard from staff, but in other
scenarios they -- the staff and project team they learn so much from the public and what
they said that it leans towards the public.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor, just one --
Jackson: Sorry my voice is a little --
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Cavener: Teresa, this is very helpful. Just one other question. When it comes to
determining what costs are considered in a program, who ultimately is determining that?
Is that something that you bring a recommendation? Do you get direction from the city?
How is that determined?
Jackson: Yeah. So, that direction will come from the project team and it varies with each
agency we work with and so we are always going to count those direct costs, but it is very
critical that we identify what it is we are going to count in full before we start counting
things, because it needs to be applied uniformly throughout the process and the team
needs to be able to carry that methodology forward. So, in some situations agencies are
not equipped to count indirect costs and so we will focus the study on direct costs. In
other circumstances the data is there and so we include utilities. We include all those
miscellaneous costs. The overall cost recovery will look at it, but the project team is
making that determination ultimately.
Cavener: Okay. Thank you.
Simison: Thank you. Council, any additional questions? Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: Sorry about that. Hi, Teresa. That -- the -- the schematic -- the drawing that
you gave us was very very helpful to kind of get a big picture of how we will address -- or,
you know, kind of the conceptual piece. From the public's -- with the public involvement
I think you had said it was workshop two. What kind of -- what -- how will that be
structured, how will the public be involved? Will it be like a survey form? And, then, also
what kind of questions are they asked? Is it -- is it like are you willing to pay for X, Y and
Z recreation or-- you know. And some examples? Or can you kind of give us a little more
detail about how that works from the -- on the public side?
Jackson: Yes. Absolutely. So, I guess you might see it as a little non -- non-traditional,
because it's -- it's the use of small working groups. So, Steve and I have discussed that
it is important to provide these both in person, as well as virtually. So, we will have options
for both and we are looking at four or five sessions. Ideally at each session we would
have 12 to 20 people that will be placed into groups of three or four and so this is via
Zoom. We would use breakout rooms. Each group will have a staff facilitator to walk
them through the process. They will be given categories of service. So, there will be 25
to 35 categories or buckets that have been developed to define your programming and
so like programs are going to be grouped together and as a small group they will work to
place those categories onto the pyramid and building that consensus will be the key piece,
because you might have one individual who sees something like a park as being very
individualized. I only see that other people use it. I never use it. But through conversation
they will learn that there is other benefits of the park, even if you don't use it. There is --
it increases home value. It increases the livability and things of those natures, so -- that
nature. So, we have these groups work through each category and place them. So, it's
not one person's individual perspective.
Simison: Council, any additional questions? All right. Thank you very much, Teresa.
Look forward to working with you.
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Jackson: Okay. It was a pleasure. Thank you all.
Simison: Council, we have reached the end of our session. Do I have a motion to
adjourn?
Hoaglun: Move to adjourn, Mr. Mayor.
Simison: We have a motion to adjourn. All in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay?
The ayes have it. We are adjourned.
MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 6:15 P.M.
(AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
2/1/2022
MAYOR ROBERT E. SIMISON DATE APPROVED
ATTEST:
CHRIS JOHNSON - CITY CLERK
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