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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2022-01-11 Work Session Item#1. Meridian City Council Work Session January 11, 2022. A Meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 4:31 p.m., Tuesday, January 11, 2022, by Mayor Robert Simison. Members Present: Robert Simison, Joe Borton, Luke Cavener, Treg Bernt, Jessica Perreault, Brad Hoaglun and Liz Strader. Also present: Chris Johnson, Bill Nary, Miranda Carson, Scott Colaianni, Joe Bongiorno and Dean Willis. ROLL-CALL ATTENDANCE Liz Strader _X_ Joe Borton _X_ Brad Hoaglun _X_Treg Bernt X Jessica Perreault _X Luke Cavener _X_ Mayor Robert E. Simison Simison: Council, we will call the meeting to order. For the record it is January 11th, 2022, at 4:31 p.m. We will begin this afternoon's work session with roll call attendance. ADOPTION OF AGENDA Simison: Next item is adoption of the agenda. Bernt: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Bernt. Bernt: This is the last time I'm going to do this as -- for a while, so it's my honor to make a motion to adopt the agenda as published. Hoaglun: Second the motion. Simison: I have a motion and a second to adopt the agenda as published. Is there any discussion? If not, all in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay? The ayes have it and the agenda is adopted. MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES. CONSENT AGENDA [Action Item] 1. Final Plat for Shafer View Terrace Subdivision (FP-2021-0056) by Breckon Land Design, Located on the East Side of S. Meridian Rd., Midway Between E. Amity Rd. and E. Lake Hazel Rd. Page 4 Meridian City Council Work Session Item#1. January 11,2022 Page 2 of 18 2. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law (Revised) for Outer Banks Subdivision/The 10 Meridian (H-2021-0063) by J-U-B Engineers, Inc., Located at the Southwest Corner of W. Franklin Rd. and S. Ten Mile Rd. 4. Subrecipient Agreement Between City of Meridian and Boys and Girls Clubs of Ada County for CARES Act Community Development Block Grant Funds - Counseling Program 5. Subrecipient Agreement Between City of Meridian and Boys and Girls Clubs of Ada County for Community Development Block Grant Funds - Scholarship Program 6. Subrecipient Agreement Between City of Meridian and Idaho Association for the Education of Young Children for CARES Act Community Development Block Grant Funds Simison: Next item is our Consent Agenda. Bernt: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Bernt. Bernt: We need to remove Item No. 3 from the Consent Agenda. With that said, I move that we approve the Consent Agenda as amended. For the Mayor to sign and for the Clerk to attest. Hoaglun: Second the motion. Simison: I have a motion and a second to approve the Consent Agenda, with the removal of Item 3. Is there discussion? If not, all in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay? The ayes have it and the Consent Agenda is agreed to. MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES. ITEMS MOVED FROM THE CONSENT AGENDA [Action Item] 3. Agreement to Accept Payment in Lieu of Installing Streetlights at the Goettsche Dental Office, 53 E. Calderwood Dr. Simison: Next item up is item moved from the Consent Agenda, which is Item No. 3. Borton: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Borton. Page 5 Meridian City Council Work Session Item#1. January 11,2022 Page 3 , 18 Borton: In prep for today I saw that short agreement and had a question for Legal or Public Works about the in lieu of fee that's paid for one streetlight that would have otherwise been required and I just didn't recall if this is part of a program that we have adopted or is it kind of a one-off random, unique situation, because normally we require a streetlight at a location and just didn't know which one this was. Nary: Mr. Mayor, Council Member Borton, Warren Stewart is supposed to be online, but he did reach out to me, based on your question. We have done many of these, actually, quite often. Usually because there is a couple of things that trigger it. It's part of a future roadway expansion and so we don't want to put the light in now and, then, would later, then, have to move it and incur that second expense. So, that's one reason. Secondarily, sometimes the agency that's in charge of the roadway -- and in this particular case it's -- it's ITD, because it's near Meridian Road is where this is supposed to go. They don't like putting in one -- one light. What happens, to be honest, with you when you put in one light people tend to run into it. When you put in a bunch of lights people tend to avoid them. So, they don't like putting in one at a time. So, what they do is they ask us to bank it and do it as part of a larger project, either in conjunction with them for future expansion -- and the best example I can give you of that is that's how we put the lights in on Chinden along the Winco project. We had a number of fee in lieu of agreements that had been in place for a number of years, we took all that funds and put it towards those lights. So, it's a pretty common practice we have done over the years. Borton: So, is it -- Simison: Councilman Borton. Borton: -- the lights, then, would go in, but just at a later date as part of a larger project, as opposed to there will never be a light? Nary: Yes. Borton: Okay. Nary: There will be light a there. It may be a year from now or further down the road, depending on the roadway and such. And we -- again, same thing we have done with our safe paths to schools, we have a lot of those where we want them in neighborhoods, but, then, we want to kind of do it in a systematic way that makes sense for kids walking to school and things like that. So, we will pool that money and, then, do one project and put them all in at once. Borton: Perfect. Thank you. Simison: Thank you. Council, you have heard the questions. Is there a motion on this item? Bernt: Mr. Mayor? Page 6 Meridian City Council Work Session Item#1. January 11,2022 Page 4 of 18 Simison: Councilman Bernt. Bernt: I move that we approve Item No. 3 that was on the Consent Agenda that we just spoke about. Hoaglun: Second the motion. Simison: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 3 from the Consent Agenda. Is there any discussion? If not, all in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay? The ayes have it and the item is agreed to. MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES. DEPARTMENT / COMMISSION REPORTS [Action Item] 7. Police Department: Fiscal Year 2022 Budget Amendment in the Amount of $27,376.00 for Idaho Humane Society Contract Increase Simison: Next item up is from our Police Department, fiscal year 2022 budget amendment in the amount of 27,376 dollars for the Idaho Humane Society contract. Captain. Colaianni: Mr. Mayor, Council, thank you. I don't remember when we last met and had the Humane Society here giving a presentation, if everybody was here or not, so if you would just give me a minute just to kind of give you a quick recap of how we got here. When we went through the budget planning last year for this year's budget there were no discussions had with the Idaho Humane Society. Now, as we look back at it they didn't reach out to us, we didn't reach out to them and as -- as a point and matter when we placed this money in the budget we simply placed in the same amount we have the prior year and that was $549,420.96 and so we put that in this year's budget. Once the budget was approved we heard from the Humane Society and they wanted to raise our rates for their services. Obviously, that caused quite a bit of consternation given the timing of that request. As a result, Emily Cain, Captain Stokes and myself paid a visit to the Humane Society out at Dorman out at the airport to look at their operations and understand what they do there and how they do that. Look at the call load in the city, look at the response times. We really spent quite a bit of time trying to educate ourselves about their business operations and how their service drives what we do here in Meridian and what they do here in Meridian and they came forward to City Council to do a presentation. Prior to doing that they did reduce the cost by 25 percent about how much they were going to increase the budget for the Humane Society services. So, after the presentation Council approved that. We, then, spent the next three months, October, November and December, putting together the contract with Legal and Police and the Humane Society and we all agreed that we would continue to pay them at last year's rate for October, November and December. We are now here moving into the first part of the year. That's all been done, but the cost of the contract for the next part of this year is 576,796.71 . So, we are short the $27,375.75. So, we are coming in front of you tonight to make up that gap between what we have already paid, what the increased cost was, and where we are Page 7 Meridian City Council Work Session Item#1. January 11,2022 Page 5 of 18 at now. So, I will stand for any questions, if that makes sense. I know there is a lot there. I didn't want to unpack too much and confuse everybody. Simison: Thank you. Council, any questions? Cavener: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Cavener. Cavener: Captain, do you know when -- with that amount do we pay that all in one lump sum or is that divvied out, you know, an equal share every -- every month? Colaianni: Equal share every month from my understanding, yes. Cavener: And then -- Mr. Mayor, follow up? Simison: Councilman Cavener. Cavener: This allotment, then, does that just get moved into the cycle and divvied out over the remaining months of the fiscal year? Colaianni: That's correct. So -- and as a footnote, we have put a tickler into the finance contract software, so we are going to reach out to the Humane Society as we go into budget discussions this year, so we don't have a repeat of this and they understand deeply that if they are going to do anything in terms of raising any type of rate that they need to come here and talk about that in front of us and have those discussions, that it just can't happen in a vacuum. So, we have circled back around and addressed that. So, you shouldn't see it happen again. Cavener: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Cavener. Cavener: Captain, I have been pretty vocal -- I don't think that the Humane Society does a very good job of customer service for our citizens. My interactions with them have been less than comparable to the service we get from the city. How is their interactions with you and your department? Colaianni: So, you know, every time we have a request from them they give it to us. They provide a statistical analysis every month on all the calls that they go to in the city, what their response times are, how many animals they take in. We get a detailed analysis every month, as does the Clerk's Office, of everything they are doing in our city. Their response times on average, for example, in December was 21 minutes for all the calls in the City of Meridian. That's coming out of their dispatch center. They took in 103 animals in one month from our city. Now, those are captures and those are self surrenders and so we watch that and we are comfortable with those numbers. We have had discussions, Page 8 Meridian City Council Work Session Item#1. January 11,2022 Page 6 , 18 because we have heard some complaints here and there about their response to calls and timeliness. You know, it's like anything else, you know, it's how busy they are, the priority of calls. If they have a dog attack in one part of the county or someone's been bit and, then, you have got a dog at large in downtown Meridian, you have to weigh constantly where you are putting those resources and what may seem real important to you, we don't know what's going on on the other side of the county and like any other place they have staffing issues. Cavener: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Cavener. Cavener: I think, captain, you speak -- you speak to kind of the -- the feedback that I have heard from the public, which is that I think they are managing the calls that they are actually dispatching. The feedback I get is that oftentimes when our citizens call they are dissuaded from actually formalizing a complaint, so that nobody has to come out and that's the piece that I really struggle with. We wouldn't -- in any other department of the city we wouldn't discourage our citizens from utilizing our services and so I haven't been supportive of this budget amendment. I haven't decided if I'm going to be in favor of it or not, but I think that's the piece -- at least my ask for -- for you is that we are doing a good job of engaging with them, so they understand the expectations of our citizens, of your department, of the Council -- they have got a lot of room to improve when it comes to supporting our citizens. Colaianni: I appreciate the feedback. I will -- I will -- we don't know what we don't know and if we have somebody that's unhappy with something certainly it is our desire to remedy that and if somebody comes forward and says they have had a bad experience or they are not liking the way this is unfolding, we need to understand that and we can, then, hold them accountable, because we are the customer here. So, yeah, I would agree with you a hundred percent. Perreault: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Council Woman Perreault. Perreault: Are they doing any sort of self assessing? Do they have a section of their website that encourages feedback? Are they getting feedback from their customers? I mean is there any -- I mean are they actively receiving input from the public and seeking it versus just waiting for somebody to take the time to make a complaint? You know, most website -- websites you see will have a link that says give us some feedback or is there anything -- I should probably look at that more closely, but do you have any idea if they are engaging in that kind of business practice? Colaianni: It's a great question. It would surprise me if they weren't. Looking at their operation they seem to have covered everything that we asked of them. I simply don't know that. I would have to go to their website or reach out and ask them. I do know that Page 9 Meridian City Council Work Session Item#1. January 11,2022 Page , - 18 they provide extra patrols in our city parks, because that's one of the things we have asked them to do and last month when they sent me the report it outlined the extra patrols they had done in Settlers Park and -- and Kleiner Park and such like that, because there has been an increase in complaints of dogs at large. So, I know that they are listening in that respect, but in terms of feedback I would have to look and get back to you. Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Hoaglun. Hoaglun: Just a question, captain. Do they put in that report any returns back to the community? They have a program where they -- there are animals that are brought in -- cats, primarily, and, then, released back after they are fixed, thankfully, but I didn't know if they keep track of that as well. Colaianni: So, I have the report. I mean I can share it with you. They took in 103 animals last month. Two of those were wildlife. So, that left 101 cats and dogs. I don't know what the ratio is out of those. If I remember correctly they returned nine back. Now, there are quite a few self surrenders where citizens of the city bring their cats, their dogs, whatever and say we don't want animals anymore. They are your problem. Here you go and they dump them off. And so they get quite a few of those. Strader: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Council Woman Strader. Strader: My recall from the conversation last time it felt like there was an opportunity to revisit our own fees that we charge people when their pets escape continuously or they surrender their pets. I guess I would ask if there has been a follow up on that or maybe just a request if we have an applicable ordinance, if we could receive a copy of that. Colaianni: That's a great question. So, I'm in touch with Emily Kane. It is on our list of things to work on. The holidays being what they were and this happened we just haven't had a chance to circle back around, but it is on our list of things to do and bring to you. So, you will be seeing that at some point in the future. Ours were the lowest in the valley when it came to kenneling costs and return costs. Strader: Thanks for taking a look at that. Strader: Thank you. Simison: Council, any additional questions? Cavener: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Cavener. Page 10 Meridian City Council Work Session Item#1. January 11,2022 Page 8 , 18 Cavener: This is probably my only begrudgingly budget amendment I'm going to make a motion to approve. So, I move we approve the Police Department fiscal year 2022 budget in the amount of 27,376 dollars. Bernt: Second. Strader: Second the motion. Simison: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 7, budget amendment. Is there any discussion? Bernt: Mr. Mayor, I don't know if my second was begrudgingly taken, but pretty close I think. Cavener: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Cavener. Cavener: Maybe an ask for -- for you or Council President, our new Police Department liaison, is maybe you all can connect on this in the next couple of months. I would be supportive of a budget amendment for a feasibility study to see if they are the right vendor for us, if there are other organizations that can serve this need or if it's cost beneficial for us for the level of service we can provide our citizens to bring this back in house. Simison: I can tell you that is on the chief's to do and it is constantly being monitored, but they are the only vendor in the valley, other than ourselves, or a consortium of all of us and there does not appear to be consortium of the willing throughout the valley to take this on ourselves yet. Cavener: Thanks. Colaianni: If I could add, that -- that's correct. It is on the chief's radar. We have in the past studied this a couple of times with Finance to run the numbers on building our own facility and option however you want to run it, what your levels of service would be, how many people, all those types of things and at that time it didn't pencil out financially for us to do anything and it's something we are always aware of and look at and we will certainly continue to look at it, but we have run this a couple of times to the ground and it just hasn't worked out for us and everybody's kind of there, too, what I hear in the tea leaves -- Eagle, Star, Kuna, Boise, Meridian, all use IHS; right? That's -- that's what they are -- and the county and that's what they just simply do and so just kind of where we are at right now in the valley. Cavener: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Cavener. Page 11 Meridian City Council Work Session Item#1. January 11,2022 Page 9 , 18 Cavener: Feedback to that. I don't anticipate that doing it ourselves would be cheaper, but I do believe us doing it ourselves is a better service for our citizens and I think that's where I'm focused on, for what it's worth. Colaianni: Thank you. Fair enough. Perreault: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Council Woman Perreault. Perreault: Do we have any idea if the other cities have had similar challenges and what they might be -- how they might be addressing them? Colaianni: There have -- from what I hear there have been some concerns from the other city -- cities about cost increases. They have all went on, just like we have, and talked with them about them and -- and moved forward with their contracts. I don't know what the levels of service are like there. Us and Boise have the highest call loads in the valley given the size and the number of pets and such and so when you talk about Star and Kuna and Eagle, it's not really an apples to oranges type of thing and so I think we have to be careful there when we compare, but certainly everybody's costs go up as call loads and growth and such happen and so those are the things we face in anything. It's -- it's tricky, though. But yeah. Perreault: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Council Woman Perreault. Perreault: I would like to just state that I don't have a challenge with -- with the city contributing or paying a higher contract if we feel like the level of service is comparable to our residents. So, just for me in this consideration it's really not as much about the dollars in relationship to our budget and where those funds are going, as much as it is -- you know, if -- if there is an equivalent factor between the amount of service being provided and the increase in cost to them to provide the service that's one thing, but if our service is decreasing -- the -- the quality of service is decreasing while our costs are increasing, that's another conversation. Simison: Council, any further questions or comments on the motion? All right. Ask the Clerk to call the roll. Roll call: Borton, yea; Cavener, yea; Bernt, yea; Perreault, yea; Hoaglun, yea; Strader, yea. Simison: All ayes. Motion carries and none of those sound too begrudgingly, but we understand. MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES. Page 12 Meridian City Council Work Session Item#1. January 11,2022 Page 10 0 18 8. West Ada School District Development Letter Changes Simison: Council, next item is Item 8, which is with our Community Development. I just want to preface this conversation with -- the conversation was intended to be with West Ada City School District, not with our staff. Unfortunately, you know, we received the data from West Ada, from the -- the staff, but they hadn't even talked to their own body yet. So, they want to have a conversation with their own body-- I don't know if they will change their processes. I don't know if they will change the data. Who knows what is forthcoming from the school district. But after they meet they have agreed that they will come here and talk to the Council about the information that they provide. So, I'm suggesting that in the conversation is -- Miranda is not here to answer the school district's questions and we would like to keep this focused on the information that's been provided by them in the document that they shared and/or Miranda's responses. Any larger conversations are yet to be had with the appropriate people, but, you know, no disrespect, I don't think that having a conversation with ourself in the room is really going to benefit a lot of us and -- on this topic that was noticed today. So, with that -- Cavener: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Cavener. Cavener: Are you -- do you want to delay this conversation, then, until West Ada is in attendance? Are you -- this is like an appetizer to a yet to be determined main course? Simison: That was my office's recommendation was to delay the -- it was determined to leave it on -- Cavener: Okay. Simison: -- but I'm trying to set some parameters about let's keep the conversation -- what -- what we can official -- what we can actually provide back to you is not answer questions about what West Ada has -- what decisions they have made or what decisions they will make or information that they may or may not want to provide that we want them to provide. Bernt: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Bernt. Bernt: Appreciate the direction this evening. I appreciate the guidance. The only question that I would have is if there is a member of Council that has a question for Miranda when she's -- while she's here that is, you know, in relation to the document that was provided by Dr. Bub that we have all read and so that -- that would probably be what I would focus on this evening. Page 13 Meridian City Council Work Session Item#1. January 11,2022 Page 11 of 18 Simison: Exactly. That's -- let's try to keep the focus to what we can control in this conversation or if there is information you want Miranda to make sure to tell them prior to them coming, so that they are aware. I'm just not sure what we are going to see -- what they provided we are going to see from them moving forward. So, with that happy to turn this over to Miranda for any opening comments that she would like to make. Carson: I think my only opening comment, Mayor, would be to thank you for that armor. I will do my best to take forward any questions you have, but I can't speak on behalf of the district. Strader: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Council Woman Strader. Strader: Thank you. I understand we can't speak on behalf of the district, but I do think we should have a good grip on our own data in terms of-- my first question would be what is the total pipeline of new development that we have already approved? How many single family homes and how many multi-family homes citywide is -- what's that number? That's my first question. And, then, my second question is what percentage of the total do we issue in CO's per year or what is some other metric of how many houses out of our pipeline have historically been delivered on an annual basis. Carson: Mr. Mayor, Council Woman Strader. Sorry. So, I didn't pull the full city numbers for permits issued. In anticipation of last week's meeting I did pull for everything south of the interstate and Joe Dodson gave those numbers and there are -- there were 4,176 single family units entitled and there are 1 ,224 multi-family units entitled. Of those there is 2,900 single family units remaining to be built and 1,112 multi-family units remaining to be built and, then, we would -- you can extrapolate out the number of students with the student generation rate. As far as the absorption rate or the rate those develop at, that's really hard to determine. It depends on the size of the development. So, for specific developments a small development of 21 houses is obviously going to develop more quickly than a 300 unit development, as well as where the development is at. So, something with more service availability -- those in-fill developments will develop faster typically. There is property ownership. Supply chain. It's really hard to determine. would say on average three to ten years, which I know is a large gap, but it's hard to give you anything a lot more consistent than that. I did -- for building permits we issued, over the last three years, between 1,800 and 2,000 building permits a year for single family. believe it would -- that was -- I believe that number was for single family homes, but that was for residential building permits. So, we are pretty consistent on building permits over the last few years anyways of what we have issued every year and we are working on some larger analysis of what those numbers citywide look like. Strader: Mr. Mayor, if I could just dig into that a bit. So -- sorry. Just so I understand. So, regardless of the depth of the pipeline of approvals, the amount that is permitted you are saying has been consistently around 2,000 per year citywide. Page 14 Meridian City Council Work Session Item#1. January 11,2022 Page 12 of 18 Carson: Over the last three years. Strader: Over the last three years. Okay. And then -- yeah. I think the citywide number is important and I will kind of -- just for the benefit of the group -- kind of discuss what I was e-mailing with you about. So, what I would like to see ideally in terms of data to come out of this are some scenarios, so we can sort of understand the boundaries of what we are looking at. So, if there is just the developments that have been approved today -- and I'm not worried about right now, I'm worried about like three years from now and there are no new bonds, I understand the district has calculated their program capacity. They should have updated enrollment numbers. We know the amount of students that graduate from high school every year, an idea of that. We should be able to, looking at historical data, project a percentage of our pipeline that becomes delivered every year and I would like to just see a projection of -- assuming all those things -- and they are big assumptions -- what is the capacity that we are really looking at if nothing changes? Is it a catastrophe in three years? Is it not a catastrophe? Is it that we would absorb the amount that we have already approved? I just want to understand an extreme scenario. I don't agree that them not issuing a -- I think them not issuing a bond is a mistake and not the right approach. I would hope that they would do that, but I would like to understand if they do not what are we really looking at? So, I would like to see the citywide numbers and some more information about the percentage of what is approved that typically is historic -- based on historical numbers delivered per year. I do feel like there is a lot of variability around that, but we should be able to generate an assumption around that. Carson: Mr. Mayor, Council Woman Strader, citywide we are looking at entitlements, CO's and permits issued. Districtwide West Ada is looking at build outs districtwide of the five municipalities, what's coming down the pipeline. So, they do have those numbers in their formula that they will present when they come. Borton: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Borton. Borton: I'm the one that asked since we were here to keep it on the agenda and -- and I guess if the first question might be addressed towards Council is the premise of this discussion is that there is a grave concern that under the scenarios -- and I totally agree with Council Woman Strader on running some scenarios, but under one scenario there is not another school built in Meridian for over ten years and in that scenario there is no bond passed and we are done building schools. So, in that path does that give us any reason for concern to change anything that we do in any manner? Simison: And Council -- oh, go ahead. Borton: Go ahead. I have always assumed for me that that isn't an acceptable scenario and that requires a different path by us, which would necessitate us running these -- this analysis to determine what's the break point that would require us to do things different. But I assume that we are all of the mindset that that's -- that scenario would be of grave Page 15 Meridian City Council Work Session Item#1. January 11,2022 Page 13 of W concern and for that reason we need to do what we are doing now, but if we are not all on the same page that that's a problem, then, this is just academic. Simison: And, again, just to keep us focused, this is about the numbers that West Ada is providing based upon their changing of student generation rates. You are on a very much more macro, larger conversation. I just want to make sure that we are staying focused on -- West Ada is changing the numbers that they are generating for development and that's what the first conversation with staff is about is just about that information for your reports. The other part is, again, a much larger conversation where Miranda doesn't need be sitting down here having this conversation -- be part of the conversation, because it's really not on her, it is on you all for your views on how West Ada is operating and the decisions that are being made. So, just, again, I want to keep it focused on the student generations per household, as West Ada is changing how they are presenting the information to you. Borton: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Borton. Borton: So, to that -- I mean we can -- let's say we got nothing from West Ada. We could -- with the data we already have you put -- you put student population on the X axis, you have got your -- your permit issuance, we know what the student growth rate is for the district, we know what our building -- residential building permit issuance is historically over 20 years and we know what capacity is generated by each bond from 2005 going forward and you could literally graph this and just -- you assume that the trends remain the same. I mean it's illustrative only perhaps. But we know how we have grown and so we could graph that. We would know our student capacity, design capacity of these schools sort of staircase upwards and what I envision this -- if you graphed it what we would be seeing is -- you get to 2021 and that design capacity is flat and where it has historically over 25 years jumped up as we passed a bond and created new schools, what if it doesn't and the delta between your student growth and the design capacity grows and grows and grows and Councilman Hoaglun knows the double shifting back in the '80s. Ultimately you get to some of these scenarios. So, even without data from the school district we can come up with some forecasts -- Carson: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Yes, Miranda. Carson: So, Mr. Mayor, Councilman Borton, I want to speak first to your first question. In the letter when the West Ada has their max capacity, this school will be at one hundred percent capacity, all of that is assuming, as you said, nothing is built for ten years. That's not a realistic scenario. We have not -- it's not realistic. West Ada has said it's not realistic that nothing will be built in ten years. So, they -- they do put that in and I will let them speak more to that, but it is illustrative of if nothing was built this is what would happen. So, that's what that data point is. The second question regarding what their options are, Page 16 Meridian City Council Work Session Item#1. January 11,2022 Page —— 18 there are a lot of options, as you said, and they will speak to those. But I do want to be -- when we are talking about these things remember that just because nothing is built in Meridian doesn't mean a school built in Eagle doesn't serve our needs, because enrollment shifts. So, we need to make sure that when we are looking at the growth that even though we are the City of Meridian and that's all that we can control, we are looking at -- if we are going to talk about West Ada's data, we have to look at West Ada as a whole. Borton: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Borton. Borton: To that point I totally agree and I think that -- that probably has a negative impact on bond pass -- I think one of the next schools is in Star and the difficulty in the landscape and this in our community is during the election I feel like passing a bond -- it's a different animal out there. It's a different community and their appetite for supporting our schools tragically is maybe not where it used to be. So, I'm not nearly as confident as you are that there is going to be -- there is going to be a bond passed, that our community would support it. Borton: And, Miranda, I won't ask you to comment on the support -- how -- how much you view a bond or not in passing. That's not your -- Carson: You are saying you won't ask me to comment or you want me to comment? Simison: I don't need you to comment -- Carson: Oh. Okay. Simison: -- whether or not you think it's likely or not that a bond will be passed or if -- Carson: Because I can comment on one thing, Mr. Mayor. There are a lot of tools, other than building new schools. So, that's just something to keep in mind. West Ada can speak to what those tools are, but there are a lot of tools that can come before we talk about building new schools. Strader: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Council Woman Strader. Strader: I guess I -- I would love to understand the range of tools that's available. So, there is portables; right? They could build portables and we could figure out what the price tag is associated with that. We have had them redraw their boundaries. I understand that they have already done that. Hopefully they can continue to do that. I guess what other tools are there? Maybe I'm just not following. Page 17 Meridian City Council Work Session Item#1. January 11,2022 Page —of 18 Carson: So, from my perspective, Mr. Mayor and Council Woman Strader, there are the portables, the redrawing boundaries, busing students, going to shifts, converting choice schools to traditional schools, which is an option that they took in the north and central and I'm hopeful to say that when I ask Marcy have you considered switching those in the south, they said that's not a discussion topic. So, my opinion they haven't even discussed that as an option yet. So, there are other tools that can be brought in before we look at building. Strader: So, Mr. Mayor? Simison: Council Woman Strader. Strader: Just to dig into that a little bit. So, it sounds like you are not as worried as the thing that I am worried about, but I still think it's important to do the analysis. To me the purpose of running scenarios is to understand the outer edges of what is possible if different events do or not happen and I think we need to understand, to Councilman Borton's point, what the breaking point is where district wide we do not have capacity. So, if their program capacity numbers are available, for example, if district wide there are no bonds issued in three years we are looking at hundreds more students than they have capacity for, I would want to know that. So, I feel like we have to do the analysis assuming there isn't a bond just to know the answer of what a catastrophic situation would be and what the indicators would be for us to look for of when we have reached that point and if we don't do that analysis and we just assume that they will pass a bond I think that could be a really big error on our part. I think they should. I would be very disappointed if they didn't attempt to pass one. But I think that analysis is independent of whether or not they do move that forward. We need to know that. Simison: Yeah. I think those are great questions to talk to the board about when we meet with the board and have those conversations. Bernt: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Bernt. Bernt: Especially, you know, what the enrollment numbers are, you know, if -- if the enrollment numbers are the same they were from the last bond, I don't know it would be very prudent of the school district to ask for another bond from -- from the citizens of Meridian if enrollment is not growing. I think that that bond would fail miserably. So, I think before they issue a bond I think it's important to know what that enrollment looks like, where the -- where the -- where the school district is growing and as a taxpayer in the city if the enrollment isn't growing why the heck am I going to vote for something that's -- that they don't need and, then, you go back to the other tools that we spoke about, that's what they need to do and in the past they have done it every single time, they react. They figure it out. And so I'm really interested to see what that -- that enrollment number is compared to what it was at the last bond and if it's the same or even close, they are not going to ask for another bond. I wouldn't expect them to. Page 18 Meridian City Council Work Session Item#1. January 11,2022 Page 16 0 18 Perreault: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Council Woman Perreault. Perreault: Council Woman Strader mentioned the solutions that the district had -- had briefly given us in a letter on a specific land use application recently, but also that -- that Dr. Bub mentioned and I -- I wouldn't -- I would highly encourage and support the district to identify critical areas across the district that need to be addressed first, make those a priority and be looking at specific solutions for those now. We are -- we are behind the curve in -- in southeast Meridian. We -- this should have been done three years ago in the Hillsdale area. I'm not as -- yes, current enrollment right now says that -- that -- that they can support the amount of students that are coming in. Maybe even for the next one or two school years. You had sent a really great e-mail kind of differentiating the difference -- explaining the difference between program enrollment and -- and building capacity and -- and helping us understand that and that they go off of program enrollment and not off of building capacity. If that's the standard that they use that's okay, that helps us even better to clarify exactly how many students can be -- can be taught in a particular building and a particular school. We are okay with using that as -- if program enrollment is what they use as kind of their standard of the number of students, then, when they share that information with us it has to be clear that that's what that is and that it's not building capacity, because I think that's a confusion for the public and really isn't even something that we have discussed as a Council as being the differences when we see these numbers and we are trying to analyze them for the purpose of a land use application; right? So, that needs to be clarified in their letters. But if they are going to recommend that they -- that there are specific solutions when -- when they are sending a letter on a specific land use application, I feel like it's upon the district to say -- and this is how these solutions will be addressed if we get above program capacity for this particular school. If they can't do that -- they should be doing that for critical areas across the district and that's what I would like to see come out of our meeting with West Ada is what are you doing with schools that are at -- at or close to program capacity with the specific solutions that you are putting out there and you are saying that it can be done -- as you said there is many of them, what's happening? Is that going to be part of their presentation? Are they actually going to come and say here is our plan for Hillsdale Elementary. Here is our plan for Mountain View. We are over capacity at Mountain View -- both program and building capacity at Mountain View right now. If West Ada isn't bringing that information to us we have no other obligation --we have no other option as a city than to be obligated to really consider not approving developments. I don't know what -- I mean I'm just -- I'm putting it out there. I know that this isn't Miranda's responsibility to give me an answer to this, but I just want to publicly say that's -- that's where I'm at in this conversation and -- and to set the expectation of what we want out of our conversation with West Ada. Simison: Council, any other questions for Miranda? Borton: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Borton. Page 19 Meridian City Council Work Session Item#1. January 11,2022 Page 1, of 18 Borton: I guess as part of that, Miranda, just some context for the reason why for me it's a big deal is I just -- I don't accept the fact that -- I'm not saying you do, but I'm just saying the reason why I'm being a stinker on this issue is a student is probably one of the most critical resources of our community and whether we have kids or not we all, I believe, have a moral obligation to provide them what's necessary to be successful and they are not widgets and they are not firewood and we don't stack them up and the mere fact that we could put 40 in a classroom -- you could probably put 50. You could put them in the hall, you can double shift them, you can have portables. I -- I'm interested in a solution. None of that is terribly acceptable to me. I think it shirks the responsibility of the community. So, that's kind of the core of why this is a big deal and the connection to that is whatever the new data that the school district provides us, what if we said: So what. I mean who cares what the student generation rate is. Are we ever going to do anything different because of it? Ever. And if we would never ever consider ever denying an application or requiring something different because of the data they provide, then, what's the point of this whole conversation. It kind of-- I will finish where I start is having this is premised upon the idea that there might be data out there and there might be information the school district provides us that would be helpful to determine whether or not an application should be approved or not and let's be honest and say it right now, if that would never impact our decision on an application, then, let's just stop. It would impact it for me. That's why I'm interested. But all of this hard work that's being done, what's it matter? It matters to me, but, hopefully, it matters to everybody else. We use this tool to make a difficult decision. Perreault: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Council Woman Perreault. Perreault: Miranda, is it possible -- I think you and I had a conversation about another -- another factor, as Joe mentioned, if you were to graph this -- is for the city to -- to not only maybe look at permits issued -- building permits issued, but look at what we expect the absorption to be from developer information on phasing plans and whatnot and I -- that's a big huge amount of data and staff time to put that information together, but I think if we looked at really smaller areas of Meridian and did it really incrementally that that information would considerably help West Ada to even, then, understand micro areas within a district or micro -- you know, within one elementary school where they can figure out how many students will potentially be coming in based on builders phasing and the -- and the expected amount of new properties that will be built within a certain time frame, as you -- I think you had said three to ten years or so. The analysis that was done by an applicant last week that we had come in and there was a letter that was done that said we anticipate so many students this year, so many students this year, so many students this year -- would love to see more of that kind of data from the applicants as they come in, but where we are currently at, if there is any way the city could at least look at the -- the two or three --there is -- there is only--from what I can tell two or three schools within our district to that -- where we are at this critical need to have this kind of detailed information. I would love to see the city be able to provide that information to the district, so that they can even get more specific about how -- exactly how many students are we Page 20 Meridian City Council Work Session Item#1. January 11, 2022 Page 18 of 18 going to be over capacity and -- and at what year are we going to be over capacity in a particular area. Carson: Mr. Mayor, Council Woman Strader, they -- they do look at that information now. So, that is something that they will show you when they do the formula. That's something that's been looked at for years. It's been in their formula when they redraw boundaries. Strader: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Council Woman Strader. Strader: I just think part of the challenge is like look at a development like Century Farm, maybe it was supposed to take a decade and, shoot, if it didn't happen in four years. That's why I think the historical delivery percentage is really important to -- to compare to the developer's phasing plans, because there seems to be an acceleration of a lot of the phasing plans and I just wanted to state, you know, my mindset. I believe that this is a worthwhile data exercise, because I believe for me as a leader that we should adjust our behavior in terms of our growth or at least consider different options that we would not have normally considered. If we are in a situation where we are unable to provide students with an adequate education in Meridian. That's just me, but I just wanted to state that above that I'm of that mindset as well. Simison: Council, any other questions? Okay. Thank you, Miranda. And we hope to have the district staff here at the end of the month is our goal, based upon the conversation they have with their leadership on the information they are providing, so with that we are at the end of our agenda. Do I have a motion? Bernt: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Bernt. Bernt: I move that we -- Simison: Adjourn. Bernt: -- adjourn the meeting. Simison: I have a motion to adjourn. All in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay? The ayes have it. We are adjourned. MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES. MEETING ADJOURNED AT 5:16 P.M. (AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS) 2-1-2022 MAYOR ROBERT E. SIMISON DATE APPROVED ATTEST: Page 21 CHRIS JOHNSON - CITY CLERK