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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2021-12-07 Work Session Minutes Item#1. Meridian City Council Work Session December 7, 2021. A Meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 4:30 p.m., Tuesday, December 7, 2021, by Mayor Robert Simison. Members Present: Robert Simison, Treg Bernt, Jessica Perreault, Brad Hoaglun and Liz Strader. Members Absent: Joe Borton and Luke Cavener. Also present: Chris Johnson, Bill Nary, Crystal Ritchie, Caleb Hood, Brian, McClure, Brian Harper, Joe Bongiorno and Dean Willis. ROLL-CALL ATTENDANCE Liz Strader Joe Borton _X_ Brad Hoaglun _X_Treg Bernt _X_ Jessica Perreault Luke Cavener _X_ Mayor Robert E. Simison Simison: Council, we will call the meeting to order. For the record it is December 7th, 2021, at 4:30 p.m. We will begin this afternoon's City Council work session with roll call attendance. ADOPTION OF AGENDA Simison: Next item is adoption of the agenda. Bernt: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Council President Bernt. Bernt: My distinct privilege to make a motion to accept the agenda -- or approve the agenda as published. Hoaglun: Second the motion. Simison: I have a motion and a second to adopt the agenda as published. Is there any discussion? If not, all in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay? The ayes have it and the agenda is agreed to. MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. TWO ABSENT. CONSENT AGENDA [Action Item] 1. Approve Minutes of the November 16, 2021 City Council Joint Session Page 4 Meridian City Council Work Session Item#1. December 7,2021 Page 2 of 25 with the Meridian Development Corporation Board of Commissioners 2. Chewie Subdivision Sanitary Sewer and Water Main Easement No. 1 3. Chewie Subdivision Water Main Easement No. 1-5 4. Chewie Subdivision Water Main Easement No. 6 5. Goddard Creek Townhouse Subdivision Water Main Easement 6. Final Order for Hill's Century Farm Commercial No. 2 (FP-2021-0055) by Brighton Development, Inc., Located on the South Side of E. Amity Rd., Approximately 1/4 Mile East of S. Eagle Rd. 7. Revised Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for Intermountain Wood Products Expansion (H-2021-0042) by Kent Brown Planning Services, Located at 255, 335, 381, and 385 S. Locust Grove Rd. and 300 and 330 S. Adkins Way 8. Cost Share Permit Between the City of Meridian and Ada County Highway District to Install PVC Conduit Sleeves for Future Improvements 9. Advisory Services Agreement Between the City of Meridian and The Urban Land Institute for Professional Services Panel 10. National Opioids Settlement Participation Form Regarding Distributor Settlement Agreement 11. National Opioids Settlement Participation Form Regarding Janssen Settlement Agreement 12. Resolution No. 21-2298: A Resolution of the Mayor and City Council of the City of Meridian to Amend The Future Land Use Map of the 2019 Comprehensive Plan For 42 +/-Acres Known as Hatch Industrial, Generally Located on the East Side of N. Linder Road, South of the Railroad Tracks and on the North Side of West Franklin Road in the SW '/4 of Section 12, Township 3 North, Range 1 West, Meridian, Idaho; and Providing an Effective Date Simison: Next item is the Consent Agenda. Bernt: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Bernt. Page 5 Meridian City Council Work Session Item#1. December 7,2021 Page 3 of 25 Bernt: Very grateful for the opportunity to make a motion to approve the Consent Agenda. For the Mayor to sign and for the Clerk to attest. Hoaglun: Second the motion. Simison: I have a motion and a second to approve the Consent Agenda. Is there any discussion? If not, all in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay? The ayes have it and the Consent Agenda is agreed to. MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. TWO ABSENT. ITEMS MOVED FROM THE CONSENT AGENDA [Action Item] Simison: There were no items moved from the Consent Agenda. DEPARTMENT / COMMISSION REPORTS [Action Item] 13. Ordinance No. 21-1957: An Ordinance Amending Meridian City Code Section 10-4-2, Regarding Requirements for Firefighter Air Replenishment Systems (FARS) for New Buildings; Adopting a Savings Clause; and Providing an Effective Date Simison: So, we will move on to item -- into our Department/Commission reports. First item up is Ordinance No. 21-1957, an ordinance amending Meridian City Code Section 10-4-2 regarding requirements for firefighter, air replenishment system (FARS) for new buildings. Adopting a savings clause and providing an effective date. Turn this over to Deputy Chief. Bongiorno: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Mayor and Council, hopefully, this is a -- an easy one. Tonight I'm going to use the E word. For the last couple months -- actually a lot of months, thanks to Emily Kane from the attorney's office, she's been working with me and with Sam Zahorka, the building official, working with Nampa fire, working with Boise fire. We have all come up with an amplifier and ourselves we have came up with an ordinance to go along with the adoption of the 2018 Fire Code that we did a couple years ago and what this is is in -- in the fire code is Appendix L, which is firefighter air replenishment systems and in there it does not specify when it's required and so what you have before you is an ordinance that just -- that spells out when that system is required and what we have come up with is the language -- when the building is five stories or more in height above grade. When it is two stories or more below grade or if the building is 500,000 square feet or more in size on a single level. That's when that will be -- when they will be required. And looking at that we partnered with our partners across the street and they are actually installing it before our ordinance is, then, activated. We also have another project that's being looked at over by The Village and they also have agreed -- they are like that we see the benefits of this and we want to put it in our building. So, we actually have two different developers that are -- see the benefit of it and they are -- they are putting it in their buildings ahead of time. So, with that we did send -- Chief Johnson and Page 6 Meridian City Council Work Session Item#1. December 7,2021 Page 4 of 25 1 sent information out to the building community to let them know about it. We did get one comment back, which in my letter it said we got none, but we got -- we did get one comment back recently. We actually tweaked the ordinance a little bit because of that comment. So, it was very beneficial to us. And I sit on the code amendment -- fire code and safety building council -- something for Canyon county and just yesterday we approved their ordinance, which, again, is the same language that we are using. So, that way it's -- it's an ease between districts. I did talk with Chief Gervais the other day. He had originally said he was going to wait until the 2021 code adoption rounds, but since, then, since we are going ahead and moving forward with our ordinances, he said he has to modify his wildland ordinance and he is going to go ahead and adopt FARS at that time. So, he will do a mid year code amendment also. So, Boise will be on board with FARS also. So, with that I will stand for any questions and -- Simison: Thank you, Deputy Chief. Council, questions or comments? Bernt: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Bernt. Bernt: No -- no questions. However, the Mayor and I were able to go and witness and check out this new system, the FARS system. It's actually -- it's going to save lives and it's going to be incredibly beneficial to the -- our fine men and women in blue who are fighting fires in our -- in the City of Meridian. So, grateful for this new resolution and very grateful for this new process. Bongiorno: Thank you. Strader: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Council Woman Strader. Strader: (Unintelligible). Simison: Council Woman Strader, we are having a real hard time understanding your comments. They are really little low volume, but it's -- Strader: Is that better? Simison: Much better. Strader: Okay. (Unintelligible). Simison: I don't -- Bernt: Mr. Mayor, I believe that Council Woman Strader is just asking how the construction of the -- of FARS inside the buildings, how straight forward it is. Page 7 Meridian City Council Work Session Item#1. December 7,2021 Page 5 of— Bongiorno: Oh. Okay. Sorry. Mr. Mayor, Council Woman, I can't hear you very well. So, to that, we have -- so, we have a company that we are working with, the Air Coalition, they are the ones that donated that system to us that's in our training tower right now that we are going to be utilizing to train on this system. So, they work with the -- the other company that puts the systems together and they have certified technicians throughout the United States and there is actually a couple here in the -- in the -- in our area that -- that can do the work of the install. So, we don't have any issues. As a matter of fact, the building -- two buildings across the street, the company -- I believe they are out of Texas -- they said they will come up and install them if they have to. So, they will make sure that we are taken care of, that our systems are serviced and installed properly. Bernt: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Council Woman Strader, was that your question and answer? Strader: Yes. Bongiorno: Awesome. Thank you. Simison: Council, any other questions? If I could just echo what Council President Bernt said, very impressed by the system and what it will do and gracious for our development community for proactively getting this put in place as we have one of our larger buildings currently going in and across the street and as you mentioned several others are on the horizon. Bongiorno: Yeah. Very thankful also. We have got a great community that we work with and I'm thankful for all of them. Simison: With that what is our action this evening? Nary: Mr. Mayor, you do have the ordinance on the agenda for -- Strader: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Council Woman Strader. Strader: Question. Hopefully you can hear me. Do we need to amend the ordinance to reflect changes received in e-mail and bring it back or can we do that tonight? Simison: I was under the impression the version in front of us has the change that was recommended and that is confirmed from Deputy Chief shaking his head up and down. So, we can move this version forward this evening. Strader: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Council Woman Strader, go ahead. Page 8 Meridian City Council Work Session Item#1. December 7,2021 Page 6 of 25 Strader: I'm happy to make a motion to approve Ordinance No. 21-1957, ordinance amending Meridian City Code Section 10-4-2 regarding requirements for Firefighter Air Replacement Systems for new buildings, adopting a saving clause and providing an effective date. Simison: Do I have a second? Bernt: Second. Simison: I have a second. Is there any discussion on the motion? If not, all in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay? The ayes have it and the ordinance is agree to. MOTION CARRIED: FOUR FIVE AYES. TWO ABSENT. Bongiorno: Thank you. 14. Human Resources: Discussion of New Formatted Policy Manual Simison: Thank you, Deputy Chief. Appreciate it. Next item before us is Item 14, which is Human Resources Discussion of New Formatted Policy Manual. I will turn this over to Director Ritchie and Mr. Nary, but recognize you first. Ritchie: Thank you. All right. Good afternoon, Mr. Mayor, Members of Council. Thank you so much for having Bill and I this afternoon. I am going to refer to some notes tonight. I typically try not to do that, but I want to make sure that I cover all the information we want to share with you today. On myself -- on behalf of myself, the HR Department, the Legal Department, as well as Finance and IT. So, as you know the Meridian City Council is the policymaking branch of our city government. City Ordinance 1-7-3 states that the members of the City Council are the legislative and policymaking branch of the government for our city. We are bringing forward to you a proposal for a newly formatted and updated policy and procedure manual to the one that we have today. One of the current challenges that we have today with the existing policy and procedures are that the procedures are embedded within those policies. Anytime that we want to make an operational change to a procedure or a process that's captured in the policy we have to bring that operational change in front of all of you for discussion and approval, when it's an operational function, not the policy itself, and so that's a challenge of time, it's a challenge of updating, it's a -- it's time consuming to do so. So, as a result, the HR Department and the Legal Department partnered together in an effort to review, update, and revise the current policy and procedure manual. So, on November 9th we sent to you a proposal of a newly formatted and redesigned policy and procedure manual. What that encompassed was changing the format to break out policies and procedures and we wanted to separate those to align with that ordinance, so that anytime a policy needs to be changed we are bringing forward that policy to you for discussion and your future approval. The updating of the information within that policy manual consisted of reviewing each and every single policy and procedure to ensure that we had consistent terminology. So, for example, things like department head is no longer the current terminology that we Page 9 Meridian City Council Work Session Item#1. December 7,2021 Page 7 of 25 use here at the city. Our department directors is the terminology that we use today, rather than department head. So, we took a look at making some consistent terminology changes. The review of the actual policy manual itself included a review and an update of all of the operational procedures to ensure that they accurately reflected the current operational practices of the departments in the city. In addition to that we are proposing the addition of two new sections to be added to the citywide policy manual and that would be Section 9 and Section 10. One of those would be citywide finance policies and, then, the last section -- section, excuse me, would be citywide IT policies. Policies that cover all of our employees here at the city. So, with that information, along with the information that we provided to you in the memo that we sent to you on November 9th, Bill, Todd, Dave and myself are here to answer any questions that you may have. Simison: Thank you. Council, any questions for Crystal at this time or before we see if Mr. Nary or Mr. Tiede or Lavoie have anything else that they would like add? Just basically stop right there real quick for Crystal questions. Strader: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Council Woman Strader. Strader: Hopefully you will hear me. If not (unintelligible). Nary: I could probably answer that question. Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Strader, so -- give you a little back history. The city never had a policy manual until the early '80s. Grant Kingsford was the Mayor of Meridian at the time. It was a part- time position. He was a school teacher. The city actually adopted the Western Ada School District policies in total and so that's where they stood for about almost 20 years. 2002 we had a contracted law firm, they paid one of their partners to basically redraft the entire policy manual, so that's what -- the form we have today. So, when we -- over the years since about 2004, as we have amended the policies we have added director or director designee for certain --for certain policies that didn't necessarily require a director to make a decision, because, again, we have separate divisions in departments, such as Public Works, where it may be -- it may be more appropriate or necessary for the director to designate the wastewater superintendent to be the person making that decision, because they understand what the operational need maybe or the -- the Police Department, it may be something that a patrol lieutenant could be designated as the person to deal with that particular type of issues. So, that was the intention and what we have done over the years is -- and that's where I think Crystal -- and I do want to give a shout out very much to Laura Lee Berg and to -- and to Andrea Pogue for really doing the heavy lift here. They did all of this review. They rewrote all of them to meet our current needs or meet the right terminology. If you read the words -- in most of the policies the words are exactly the same. They haven't changed. A few have, because the laws change and we try to keep up with that. But most of them are the same. So, they had to break those out. But, yeah, we were looking at when -- when would it make more sense that you really want a director to be the decision maker period or it may be a designee, because, again, it's something that could be delegated to somebody else, because the Page 10 Meridian City Council Work Session Item#1. December 7,2021 Page 8 of 25 department is large enough that you have various divisions, water and wastewater, different fire stations, captains may be the ones designated to make decisions about operations, things like that. So, I hope that answers your question. Strader: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Council Woman Strader. Strader: Yeah, it did. I didn't have an issue (unintelligible). Simison: Council Woman Strader, I don't know if you might need to eat your mic. Try as close as you can. We heard -- I think we got the gist of that, but you -- at the very end it dropped way off. Strader: (Unintelligible). Simison: That's a general thumbs up as of this point. Mr. Lavoie, Mr. Tiede, do you have anything else that you would like to add as it pertains to that? If I could just on that, Council, my viewpoint was if we were going to ask our employees to adhere to those two policies that they should be put into the manual as well and so that's why those two new areas are being incorporated into these. They have been there -- or they have been out there, employees have been expected to know and follow them, but they weren't incorporated and so that's why they have been added at this time, just from that standpoint. Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Hoaglun. Hoaglun: And to that point a question to probably Bill. With those new sections nine and ten dealing with Finance and IT, I -- as I was reading through there was a memo talking about adopting that section into the policy manual or do we have to do a separate approval for that or if we approve it it's already incorporated and we are adopting all those changes as well? Nary: So, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Hoaglun, the latter. So, the intention would be -- again, as the Mayor stated, those have already been reviewed by Council and approved, but they were separated from the rest of the policy manual. So, now they will all be incorporated, they will now be one through ten -- nine and ten. One through ten and so those were all provided to employees. We give them access. We show them where it is. They can have a hard copy if they want it. So, it will just be easier to get to it. It will be easier to see it. That's the -- that was the intent. Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Hoaglun. Page 11 Meridian City Council Work Session Item#1. December 7,2021 Page 9 of 25 Hoaglun: Yeah, this is -- this is a much cleaner approach to it and really takes out some of the confusion in trying to follow through, so it was well done. So, appreciate all the hard work that people put into it, so -- Perreault: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Council Woman Perreault. Perreault: Thank you. I had sent an e-mail to Crystal, but I would like to ask this for everyone here. Wondering if the city has -- or has discussed implementing a policy to have employees review this manual on a regular basis? It's my understanding that they are given a copy or a digital copy of the location to it when they hire on and that there is not necessarily a consistent time or times of the year that they are asked to review the policies and/or it's left up to the director. So, I'm curious if Crystal can share with us and, then, if there is anything else that we can do to discuss it. Ritchie: Thank you, Council Woman Perreault. Historically over the past we -- when we came together for open enrollment, those were mandatory in-person meetings and at that point in time we had documents that were available to all employees that they had to sign stating that they acknowledged that they knew that the policies were available to them and that they needed to adhere to them. Since we have migrated away from those mandatory in-person meetings we have not had a routine or annual update from employees acknowledging that they know where the location is for the entire manual. What we have done in lieu of that is anytime that a new policy or a change to a policy came forward to each of you and was approved that information goes out for our policy through communications to those employees and that's their acknowledgement. It is something that you brought forward, it is something that I have mentioned to Bill that we want to review and discuss for existing employees. I will tell you that from a new employee's perspective that is addressed and they do sign an acknowledgement stating in the new employee orientation on day one and, then, there is follow up with their supervisors over the course of the first 90 days in case they have any questions about any of the policies that they are covering, either on their own or in conversation with expectations from their supervisor and, then, of course, Human Resources is always available. But, yes, we are going to be discussing incorporating an annual review or an annual acknowledgement, if you will. Simison: Well, we have had an annual acknowledgement. ICRMP training, which we need to do, had an affirmative box that all employees had to check to say that they had read the policy. So, it--that was done through ICRMP, our third-party--they didn't require that this last year was the first time that I am aware of, but previous seven, eight years you had to, as an employee, acknowledge that you had read -- and I don't know if it required you to read it then at that exact moment, but it did have an affirmative response. Ritchie: It used to give you the option to review it, because we had to upload it to the IRCMP site for employees to access if they wanted to read through before acknowledging it they could or they simply could just acknowledge that they knew where it was located Page 12 Meridian City Council Work Session Item#1. December 7,2021 Page 10 of 25 and that they are responsible for understanding each of the city policies. Up until that point that's correct. Last year they did not include that as a part of the program that we participated in on an annual basis in preparation for this next cycle. It's one of the questions that I'm working with ICRMP on to see if that's going to be included or if the city needs to establish their own process going forward. Perreault: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Council Woman Perreault. Perreault: I would like to encourage that -- that employees are requested to go over these, whether it's in an all-staff meeting at some point during the year with the directors or during their performance review or something and -- and even it -- perhaps not the whole manual, but perhaps, you know, social media policy, things that are citywide and, then, whatever is specific to their department. I -- there is some really important information in here and I think it's -- it would be beneficial to staff to review it on a fairly regular basis. Bernt: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Bernt. Bernt: A couple questions. First off, as it relates to monetary changes in policy, that will always come back to Council for review; correct? All right. Perfect. I know that I have some fellow Council Members that would really like to have a discussion about this as well that aren't here this evening. I know Mr. Borton -- incredibly interested in this as -- and we all know that Mr. Cavener also has some -- some questions with the details and such. Anyway that we can continue this discussion if--for two or three weeks or whatever the case may be? Mayor and I or Brad as well, we can talk about what -- what that looks like in a future agenda? I don't think we need a lot of time, but just a couple weeks or so just to make sure that other Council Members are okay with these policy changes. Nary: So, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, so our intention was to bring back a resolution next week. We don't have to. I mean there is certainly no necessity to do it next week. Whatever works on a schedule basis. We would like to put this project to bed as soon as can. Bernt: Yeah. Sure. Nary: Definitely I recognize there is always going to be a few questions here and there. Bernt: Sure. Nary: But we definitely recognize the fiscal policies -- those always have to come to Council and even in -- even procedures have some fiscal impact. They all require Council approval, but the money has to be there. You have to have the budget to actually do it, Page 13 Meridian City Council Work Session Item#1. December 7,2021 Page 11 of 25 so -- Bernt: I think a week's fine, you know. If -- if we can do this -- maybe have a -- maybe a short discussion if needed -- Nary: Sure. Bernt: -- from other Council Members if they have any other questions or -- we can talk about it then. Simison: Yeah. My understanding Councilman Borton has been in constant contact and had all these questions. I don't know about Councilman Cavener. That one I'm not familiar. But put it on next week for resolution and just put this discussion before it and if there is any additional questions. Bernt: Sure. Simison: Council, any additional questions or comments? Bernt: No, sir. 15. Community Development Department: Downtown Design Review Approach Simison: All right. Thank you. Next item up is under Community Development Department, Downtown Design Review Approach. Turn this over to Mr. McClure. Or Mr. Hood apparently. Come on, Brian. Hood: Don't worry, Mr. Mayor, you won't have to put up with me too much. I'm just going to do a little bit of an intro and, then, Brian's got most of the heavy lifting. Simison: Okay. That makes me feel better. Hood: He is going to pull up a PowerPoint presentation that we are going to work from. What we would like to do this afternoon is just explore with you an opportunity. I will cut to the chase and that opportunity staff is recommending that we move forward with an effort to establish some design standards for new projects in downtown, but those -- how we get there is kind of where we need some direction and I guess I want to confirm with you that you think that that's an effort that we should undertake. So -- so, again, we are talking about downtown architectural design review and to establish potential downtown specific processes and standards for new projects in downtown Meridian. So, in 2015 the city adopted the Architectural Standards Manual or the ASM. So, you will hear that a little bit this afternoon. ASM. ASM replaced the previous design manual. The ASM is less about design, which is subjective, and more about the level of effort. So, the purpose there is to set and maintain a baseline level of effort for the design and construction of buildings within the city. It does apply to new structures, but also additions would --would Page 14 Meridian City Council Work Session Item#1. December 7,2021 Page 12 of 25 be subject to administrative design review. So, a lot of projects are subject to design review, but those standards are limited and we will get into that a little bit more. A couple of other things on how the process currently works for design review. It's, again, citywide, applies to basically everything, except for single family homes and even, then, in certain instances where Council reviews a project for single family homes along an arterial that you are concerned about, you have made specific development agreement provisions that say, hey, we want those to go through design review as well. But, generally, it's for commercial and industrial type of buildings, multi-family structures. And, again, that applies citywide. So, it's not context sensitive necessarily. There are different design elements that are required along different types of roadways or different zoning districts, but it's not context sensitive, so to speak. So, the citywide standards currently apply downtown, which may not be enough and so we will get into that a little bit. One of the other takeaways along -- in that same vein is that not all standards in the ASM apply in all conditions. So, there are a number of qualifiers in the manual. Again, usually arterial roadways, those types of things, being adjacent to existing residential there are some specific standards for how a commercial building is designed and constructed or visible from public open spaces and parks. But if those aren't applicable, then, the city has basically taken more of a hands-off approach and we don't have a lot of standards that apply or any standards that apply for that matter. So, then, the minimum level of effort really becomes exceptionally bare minimum and as long as you meet the building code off you go. So, again, we think maybe a higher level of effort in downtown where four sided architecture and a little more context sensitivity could come into play. So, some of the other issues with general application in downtown -- so, the general ASM application in downtown, it's been a staff concern for awhile -- we have seen some -- I will just say marginal projects go up, but they have really not raised the hair on the back of anyone's neck. But we have got some other projects that are a little more visible and some standards that made us really question and get those complaints about how those buildings are designed. So, Brian's really going to focus in a lot more of the presentation on the context, the issues, and some options and see if Council would like to modify the design review process for downtown. So, I don't -- I don't want you to necessarily answer these right now, but think about these as we are running through this and Brian will kind of ask you for some feedback as we go and, again, particularly towards the end. We are looking for that general direction and level of effort and guidance. I guess with the one exception, that first bullet, if anyone says, you know what, we don't think we need to do this, we can stop the presentation right now and just be done with it. But we do want some confirmation that this -- that you, too, believe that this is something that could add value to the city, that there is to some degree a problem with applying our existing design standards that apply throughout the rest of the city to our downtown and, then, again, you have -- if there is some level of support there from Council for staff to move forward with an effort here. And, then, the second bullet would be, you know, that general level of effort that you support. So, we are going to talk to you about both how we come up with the standard. So, who is at the table and who gets a say in what those standards are and, then, after we adopt the standards what that process looks like. Is it a design review committee? I haven't heard so much recently, but there is some other cities in the -- in the Treasure Valley that historically have gotten a bad rap for their process for design review and we don't want to emulate that, but we are looking for, again, maybe some Page 15 Meridian City Council Work Session Item#1. December 7,2021 Page 13 of 25 professional help from some architects and others that maybe set up a committee to do some review on some of these things. But that's -- again, we want to touch base with you and see what kind of type of a process you would be looking for as we move forward with -- after we adopt the standards and, then, again, back to the kind of phase one, if you will, with a staff or consultant led project. We have been thinking consultant led -- in fact, have some money in this year's budget for some consulting help that we are going to draw on to help with this project. Just in talking about that recently -- in fact, Councilman Cavener reached out and -- and, honestly, I would -- I would love for Brian to lead this project, but it's bandwidth and I need him on other things, just -- and this is a pretty heavy lift in and of itself. I don't think I could dedicate him to leading this project by himself, but that would be ideal. He is probably the only one on staff that's qualified enough to lead the effort and I would be comfortable with the finished product. So, we really are kind of gauging that hiring -- getting consultant help, just because we don't have enough bandwidth to tackle this as well. And, then, moving to the top right-hand side of this slide, how big of an area should this apply to? Is it the core? Is it tied to the railroad tracks or further? So, think about that, too. Where -- where is that area that these standards -- you don't have to answer that now, but, again, some general direction on what the downtown standard should be, could overlay with -- with Old Town -- the Old Town district. You can make a case for -- for different boundaries. And, then, again, I kind of already touched on the last bullet here. The types of exceptions or instances in which elected or appointed to a committee can do architectural review. So, is that just the standard that they all go through this process? Is it some trigger that -- that requires them to go to a design review committee? Are there hearings? We don't think the Council wants to see all of these, but that's even on the table; right? I mean if you want to see all of those things and be the final approval we could write up the city code that -- that requires that process that way. So, those are -- that's some of the direction we are looking for today. Some of this will amount to additional cost. However, a lot of this is about just managing expectations. A lot of this amounts to requiring additional attention to detail and thought in the design and not necessarily resulting in significant cost to the building. We have seen that. If-- you know, our customers -- we can sit down and work with them early and often. It oftentimes doesn't cost them anymore to have good design, to design something that fits in the context of where they are proposing to go, if we can sit down and get to them early and it's clear and understandable what -- what the expectations are it really doesn't affect the bottom line most of the time on the construction of these buildings. So, I think this is about being transparent and clear in what we are trying to develop and why and, then, again, being able to explain that. So, again, just to kind of put that into two primary questions and, again, this is assuming you want to do the project, the approach that we should take and, if any, whether this is at staff level or staff led, consultant led. So, the approach -- this could be a minimal administrative level of effort and generally relying on the ASM. So, basically, taking what we have already as ASM and tweaking that for downtown or a traditional discretionary review framework, either with the design review committee or a public hearing process or some combination of those elements. So, I think with that I will turn it over now to Brian and he can kind of walk -- walk you through a little bit more of the whys and how he envisioned some of this playing out going forward. But before I pass it -- pass the mic to Brian I will stand for any questions -- initial questions you may have. Page 16 Meridian City Council Work Session Item#1. December 7,2021 Page —of H Perreault: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Council Woman Perreault. Perreault: Thank you very much for the detailed memo that was on the agenda. I read through it a couple of times trying to get my head around exactly -- kind of the history of how we got to a place of having this discussion and most of it was regarding kind of the path forward and -- and what direction we should think about taking and I was struggling to understand how this came to be. Was it -- is it observations? Is it public comment? Is it what the planners have run into as they have done design review and also was hoping maybe for some more examples of -- you talk a little bit about, you know, building looks differently to a pedestrian than to a driver. Can we see visually what a difference might be in -- in those things? So, anything like that would be helpful as well. Hood: Mr. Mayor, Council Woman Perreault, just maybe working backwards a little bit. I -- I'm not sure if Brian has some examples that maybe he can show you some pedestrian level consideration versus vehicular motorist level considerations. I can share with you a little bit more on some of your previous questions or comments. It is a little bit of both. It is both from the public and other stakeholders downtown on some of the construction projects. Like I said, kind of earlier, though, a lot of it is just things that we have that are there maybe tucked into the downtown, but really not on your major roadways in downtown, if you will. So, some of the lesser local streets and some of the multi-family projects that have gone up that maybe aren't -- and, again, the attractiveness is kind of in the eye of the beholder. I'm sure that architect is very proud of their project, but it really doesn't fit in. You get three and four story tall buildings that are next to single family 1,200 square foot ramblers and so those are some of the things that as staff we cringe a little bit when we see that and we don't have a tool in our toolbox to say you need to be a little more sensitive to what's going on around you. We understand it's going to redevelop and intensify even over time, but how can you do that in a respectful manner of the existing condition for downtown. So, I don't have addresses for you off the top my head, but if you -- if you drive around you can see some of the newer projects that are maximizing the land and putting some density and some height and some building mass that really doesn't fit in as well as we would prefer it to, but, again, if that's -- that's sort of a flavor of ice cream. Everyone likes their own. Some people like that, you know, and it's eclectic and that's our downtown, quite frankly. There -- there is a mix of investment on different properties. So, we have been tracking that, again, for quite some time and just recently -- and not to call any projects out, but there has been a couple of projects that --that have come -- that have been brought to our attention from others. Again, stakeholders, maybe they are existing business owners downtown just hearing about other projects that are coming in and they don't like the color of the building or the amount of glazing on the building or the height or whatever those things may be. So, it's something where we -- we just felt it was time to daylight it more. If Council said do you think there is an issue, too? Because, again, if not, and you think the process is generally working okay, we won't go away necessarily, but we won't make this the next high priority, we will maybe do what I just mentioned and maybe look at tweaking our existing ASM a little bit more, rather than set--standing up a whole new process for design review downtown and maybe just tweak Page 17 Meridian City Council Work Session Item#1. December 7,2021 Page 15 of 25 it to make it a little bit better. But if there is some real serious concerns, then, let's bring those stakeholders together -- well, I don't want to say that necessarily either, because to develop the standards we really do want design professionals and not just lay people to say this is what the standard should be, but if we want to do that level of effort -- so, again, sorry to kind of ramble, but it's a culmination of things and we are finally getting around to talking about it. Hopefully that helps. Simison: Council, any additional questions for Caleb as he walks away? Okay. McClure: Mr. Mayor, Members of Council, here are a few opportunities and concerns which are unique to downtown. The current ASM is really only about the building. The reason being for that is that site design is already receiving a considerable amount of design review as part of the plat process. Even architecture is frequently reviewed through development agreements, giving Council an early peak and, then, also helping to direct staff in terms of what the public and Council want to see with final determinations. Architectural style, predominant materials, and many details are really just difficult to do with standards that are location deaf, which is what our ASM is. So, you used to see more sort of discretionary review as part of the plat process for the hearing impediments and we don't have that downtime, because most of those aren't involving a plat, they go straight to administrative -- an administrative process. This hasn't worked great as -- as stated, because it's not greenfield. You can have very impactful projects that had no public hearing and no discretionary review and, then, we are applying very generic design standards that were only meant for greenfield. Just -- you could have a phenomenal building, just designed immaculately and, then, put it in the exact wrong location and sort of ruin the -- ruin the neighborhood and, then, there is no checks. So, that's sort of the concern from staff's perspective is that do you want to have a check and that's one of the questions we will visit later. Further, the city's increasing opportunity for impactful projects without, frankly, considering collateral impacts. The permit controls weren't in consideration when the city increased the design height from -- to 75 and 100 feet in downtown. Again, those -- this can happen now without a public hearing. Our standards weren't modified to consider not just the larger massing that isn't allowed anywhere else in city, but the existing context in an already constructed environment now more impacted. Staff doesn't have any framework to guide desired development for this type of construction and environment and, again, sort of the environment being another -- another consideration here. The opposite end of the spectrum is also an issue. We have been seeing more duplex type projects in areas intended for commercial and transit- oriented environments. These have skirted land development requirements for sidewalks, streetlights, open space and really all the desired quality placed elements wanted in downtown, while increasing density. It furthers land fragmentation and makes it harder to get the project desired and we don't see commensurate infrastructure along with those projects. Further, in downtown we don't have large swaths of landscape buffers to separate very different construction. We allow one hundred foot buildings now, which include multi-family, but there is limited site design, minimal parking, minimal open space and no backup plan. That could happen next to a 1915 cottage with zero setback. There is no -- and this is the concern here. There is no mechanism for staff to force a hearing or open up discretionary review. Once the application comes in, if they meet our Page 18 Meridian City Council Work Session Item#1. December 7,2021 Page 16 of 25 requirements, they are through. None of the current standards are meant for this. Lastly, zoning is a significant issue. Old Town is exceptionally fragmented in the area it covers. You can have very similar projects, because there is very -- for example, R-15 and R-40 allow multi-family. Old Town also allows multi-family. You can have those two next to each other with --with night and day differences in terms of the development requirements for those structures. So, there is no consistency when you have a very fragmented zoning base design review process, which is what the ASM is is zoning based. So, downtown especially there has been no context again for the environment or for what's next door. This is a map showing -- showing that zoning. The red dashed line there is the future land use designation for Old Town. The brown area with the lighter colored X's is the Old Town zoning and, then, you can see C-C, L-O, R-15, and R-8, industrial, C-G and a variety of other zoning designations within that area. All those apply different architectural standard requirements in the current ASM. To plant the seed using the Old Town future land use would be an efficient way of sort of leveling the playing field for architectural requirements for -- for these areas of the city. It isn't necessarily -- it wouldn't necessarily -- actually it wouldn't impact the uses allowable, it would just sort of make them all play by the same design standards for architecture. Caleb sort of touched on some of this already. This is a level of effort chart. There is an exceptional amount of variation between the -- in between areas here, so there is -- there is three examples here, but, really, you could do the sky's the limit. But I had to pick several just to give you a flavor. This first one here, as Caleb sort of mentioned, would be tweaking the current ASM to have some additional considerations downtown. This one addressed neighborhood context-- destination downtown districts, infrastructure deficiencies are really some of the other comp plan policies that we have heard are important. A middle approach here would be, again, largely to use the ASM still, but to create a secondary lane for the design review process, where if you meet certain thresholds you go from the standards objective based sort of expressed standards that we have in this ASM, to a design review committee. So, providing a committee of professionals with some additional oversight that staff isn't in a position to implement very well. Finally, the -- the right end of the spectrum here from my perspective is sort of the best way to do this, but that's only assuming that time and money were not a consideration. Really, a hybrid form based code is sort of what allows you to really consider the context of your development truly and apply standards that are appropriate based off the desired use in that location. However, the process to get there is fairly timely, a heavy lift, and probably wouldn't be used all that often, to be -- to be honest. As a final note, regardless of these three options or any other, if Council likes to have staff do something, the community engagement process and element of this is likely to be a heavy lift regardless of anything else. It's a contentious and passionate topic and meaningfully listen -- listening and educating the community on this is going to take a lot of work. Regardless of any approach that staff did, these are some of the assumptions that we want to consider. We would like to consider gates or flags where additional public review is required, whether by Council for the use of scale, for committee for design or any other range of options. The complaints we have heard would require some of the allowed-by-right uses that we currently have to -- at least with respect to design have some sideboards imposed on them. Staff would absolutely want to involve the Historic Preservation Commission. Their level of effort would very much depend on the approach we took, but at a minimum understanding their perspective, wants and needs, before Page 19 Meridian City Council Work Session Item#1. December 7,2021 Page 17 of 25 crafting any solution is important. Just like HPC with the same opportunities and constraints based on the projects, MDC we need to be involved and, finally, as previously mentioned, public engagement seems pretty crucial given our business environment and existing residents. So, staff, for your consideration at this point, is conceptually recommending some type of hybrid approach. This would involve continuing use of the ASM. It's sufficient for most of the city and unlikely for many smaller, less impactful projects in downtown, again, with some tweaks. We would also recommend a discretionary design review committee of professionals for the more impactful projects and what those sideboards are -- we haven't considered those and we aren't proposing those. Just understand that some sort of sideboard would allow a discretionary review approach for whatever is defined as impactful. Ideally that process would not be optional. That way current funding staff aren't bullied, frankly, into approving projects that they don't want to and shouldn't be doing. An overlay zone is also recommended, as I sort of mentioned before. This is --so, the size and scale is considered in the context with design review and so that all development in close geographic proximity plays by the same architectural design rules. It doesn't mean that all projects in downtown would have the same standards, whether by street, districts, or some other component that can be customized. Finally, staff would need some additional support, whether that's by outreach -- whether it's for outreach, code review, process review, or standards development, it's just more work than we can handle right now. Also outside perspective is incredibly useful, even if just to bounce off ideas. To be clear, the purpose of this recommendation would be to drive impactful projects to a design review committee, but not all projects. It should also not be a form-based code process that can be more transparent and has more defined sideboards, but it also requires a lot more work than we are likely to realize benefit from. Today we are looking for general direction and level of effort from you. Depending on direction, feedback today we would come back to you with a refined solution or proposal and, then, just -- we don't need that all today, so we would like to have a discussion with you today, but certainly we can take comments and feedback from you over the next week or two before we move forward with something. Simison: Council, questions, comments? Perreault: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Council Woman Perreault. Perreault: Brian, thank you very much. Would you say that most of the feedback that's been received that prompted this was aesthetic concerns, functional concerns, a combination of both? Is there -- is it leaning more heavily toward the aesthetics of--these are -- the feedback that we are getting from the public and the stakeholders are on projects that have already been completed; right? So, there is not a whole lot that can be done at that point, but can you give us a flavor of what -- I really-- again, I'm still somewhat missing examples of -- I'm generally understanding what it is that you are trying to do. I just -- before I -- I can say, yeah, I think we should go down this road and explore how to resolve this, I need to understand the problem a little more. Page 20 Meridian City Council Work Session Item#1. December 7,2021 Page 18 of 25 McClure: Mr. Mayor, Council Person Perreault, I don't want to call out specific projects, but I have heard the -- and most of the comments I receive are -- several -- several steps down the telephone game, so I don't -- so, I won't know these names either, but I can say I have heard the full gamut, everything you have suggested. It usually conflicts with someone else's opinion and it's for both proposed and existing projects. They are both small and large projects. So, I mentioned the smaller projects, we -- they are all over downtown now. You can see, frankly, square boxes shoved in dark holes with entrances to the buildings down both sides with a fence four foot off their door. It's really not sort of the aesthetic that I understand we are looking for and, then, we have big projects that have been considered or being proposed and those have had whirlwind of comments on them that we have received from all over the place. So, I don't know if that helped at all or not. But yes to everything you said. We have heard it all for both existing and proposed projects. Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Hoaglun. Hoaglun: I was just curious, Brian, is it possible that a design review committee could be specific to an area, as opposed to communitywide? McClure: Mr. Mayor, Council Person Hoaglun, absolutely. So, the staff recommendation, which is exceptionally cursory at this point, would be to just look at design review only for downtown -- downtown area and only for whatever we define as impactful projects. Like we do -- code currently does have a design review committee reference in it, we just don't ever use it, because applicants find they can, frankly, push it up into the -- the decision they are looking for. Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Hoaglun. Hoaglun: Just to kind of comment and I will come with a question, but, you know, we have got another deal tonight on The Fields district, you know, and this is wide open and we are going to try and figure out what's this going to look like and, you know, downtown is the same way, it's -- it's -- we had a downtown and there are new things happening and that's exciting, but there is going to be a lot of opportunity and I don't want to miss that opportunity. We are going to shape what downtown Meridian looks like for future generations. So, you know, I -- I'm kind of the go big approach to this in terms of let's do it the best possible way that we can, because we might only have one shot at this. But, you know, as I think about those things to me what -- what do we take in for the area then? Is it just Old Town? And here we have the property at Northwest Cherry and Meridian -- McFadden property? Yeah. Where that's going to be a new development at some point in time right there on the corner. So, now do we take it in -- is it the Northern Gateway Urban renewal district as our area? You know, what if you have a -- just a completely modern look over here and we go with more of a historical look for Old Town, Page 21 Meridian City Council Work Session Item#1. December 7,2021 Page 19 of 25 does -- how does that fit? How does that flow? You know, those are considerations. And, of course, if you go urban renewal, then, you have the Union District, you got to have that in there. Just some of those things on how does this all fit and, you know, the comment about, you know, you got a big building next to a little -- little thing, but is that going to be a structure that does go away in the future and how do we balance those effects, so -- and -- and ideas and I definitely want to have stakeholder involvement. People who are investing in downtown who want to keep downtown as a destination that's unique, has its own vibe, they definitely -- I want them to be part of that process. So, is what I have talked about when you look at all these things, it sounds like you have recommended a consultant approach and also I'm concerned about -- we have got so much growth in Meridian that with the limited staff you have you have got more than enough on your plate. Is it possible that you can still work with a consultant, as well as keeping everything else -- all the other balls up in the air as well? McClure: Mr. Mayor, Councilman Hoaglun, I'm very pleased to hear you ask those questions. Those are all questions we have asked ourselves and we don't have any answers for them currently, other than just sort of the Old Town language, just because we have code and policy in place. With regard to the level of effort sort of staff's overhead, I don't know. It's really sort of a Caleb and new director determination there. Certainly your priorities and the Mayor's priorities are very important and things can be pushed around. I think what we discussed was having staff work on something like this in collaboration with -- with a consultant, so -- which is sort of, frankly, what we did with the Comprehensive Plan, the amount of time that staff spent out -- in outreach at parks was ridiculous. Well, it -- it was ludicrous. We can do that here, too. So, we can -- we can do the work we are able to and, then, the work we can't we will -- and we will manage the project and the work we can't the consultant can do some of that and whether that's -- they help us with outreach and manage that or whether they help us with design standards or whether they look to a code review -- I mean all of that is sort of an option and all of it can be considered, tweaked, modified. We don't have a solution to that yet. But, yes, we can -- I'm sure we will make it work. Perreault: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Council Woman Perreault. Perreault: When staff -- it says that staff is recommending a consultant. Is that to put together those sideboards, to put together those recommendations in a one time way and, then, staff will, then, take those and apply them as the review comes in or is it an ongoing desire for a consultant to review every -- you know, every application that comes in that requires an application with the ASM and downtown or is it both? McClure: Mr. Mayor, Council, that's a really good question and I'm sorry I wasn't clear on that. So, the proposal would be to have a consultant help us with a one time process of whatever that is and, then, from then on out it would either be staff or staff and the design committee or staff and Council or whatever that is, but it would be -- it would be internal -- internal work, no longer relying on a consultant to implement. Page 22 Meridian City Council Work Session Item#1. December 7,2021 Page 20 of 25 Hood: So, Mr. Mayor, can I just piggyback on that answer a little bit? I mean to, again, be transparent in that, though, that is ongoing level of effort for staff and we don't currently have anybody, but I mentioned it, but it's been several years since we have had to pull together that architectural standards committee, the architects we have on call, and this would be something where probably monthly or at least quarterly someone's got to call them together and have a meeting and so there is -- not saying that justifies a new FTE necessarily, but there is more things that we would do after the consultant helps us stand this up. Ongoing that staff, then, has to figure out how to balance that or work that into the workload, too. So, we haven't spent too much time on that, but that's certainly something -- depending on level of effort and how we want to set this up, there is an investment by the city to do this for sure. So, again, to what level that investment is that's another direction we are asking for. Bernt: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Council Member Bernt. Bernt: Thanks, guys. Quick question. What's the time -- if we were to do this hybrid model -- I mean this -- or this approach, what's -- what's the time frame from start to finish do you think? Just roughly. I know that you -- I know that -- it looks like you put a lot of thought into this and you have a lot on your mind and there is a lot of moving parts, but generally speaking what do you think that time frame looks like? Hood: So, Mr. Mayor, Council President Bernt, I -- you know, I would think this next fiscal year, nine months or so to a year, probably something like that to develop this, to do the surveys -- again, depending on which low to high you choose. I mean if we go all in and go big we take a little bit longer to make sure that we have got everybody -- heard from everybody, but roughly a year. Bernt: Mr. Mayor, follow up? Simison: Councilman Bernt. Bernt: And with regard to that -- our growth compared to -- like, for example, Boise, our friends to the east, they have gone through growing pains just like we are. So, what does that look like? What did they do? Did they do something similar to this approach? What -- how did they approach their growth with the density in their downtown corridor? Hood: Honestly, Mr. Mayor -- Simison: How did we get Jump, that beautiful building they have? Was that through a design review committee? I think it is. Hood: So, just to answer your question -- maybe the Mayor kind of did. A design review committee can make bad decisions or, you know, there is subjectivity in there; right? Discretionary approach. I don't know what -- what's triggered in Boise or where that line Page 23 Meridian City Council Work Session Item#1. December 7,2021 Page 21 of 25 is administrative only, staff level, and you don't have to go to the design review committee or if everything does and that's kind of what I was alluding to a little bit earlier. We don't necessarily need to work either and we don't want to push everybody through design review. We have other stuff to do. But we felt like there are some triggers, some gates or flags, as Brian -- okay, this -- someone should be reviewing this to make sure it fits. I don't know exactly what all those -- if here or if this tall or if this big or if this whatever go to that process, but we -- honestly, this isn't modeled after any other city around us, this is just -- yeah. Bernt: Mr. Mayor, that was just a question that Ms. Strader wanted me to ask. Her microphone or her computer's not working, but at the end of the day I mean I -- I mean downtown Meridian is growing. People have caught vision of what we are looking for and -- and, you know, investors, business owners, developers are excited to make an investment and with that comes, you know, good problems to have in my opinion. But one thing that those folks need is consistency and I get that. The Old Town designation is very -- somewhat vague, you know, because of its downtown and these buildings are old and we don't want to stifle growth or creativity and every building can be different. I get why Old Town designation is what it is, but I also can see now because of the growth that we are experiencing why that can be a challenge for -- for staff and all the questions that you guys have and so my only concern is there is a lot of projects that are going on right now -- or shouldn't say a lot, but there is one specifically that -- that could take place fairly soon that probably would benefit this design review process if and when it takes place. So, I guess -- I mean I could wrap my arms around a hybrid approach. I think that that makes sense. To give some context of--to Council Woman Strader, you know, there is -- excuse me -- Perreault. There have been instances where the lack of this consistency or direction has elongated the process where if we had these design -- you know, a design review in place or standards in place, the process in -- in which this particular application would have gone forward, probably would have been less time, would have been faster and, then, result not -- I don't know if it would have been better, but certainly we would have got to it much quicker and -- and when we are dealing with investors and -- and those who invest in our downtown that time is money and so I -- I can understand why this is on the forefront and I appreciate you guys putting it together. I -- I could put my -- starting to ramble a little bit. But I guess what I'm saying is the hybrid approach is probably something that I would be most interested in. Simison: So, I'm going to be the odd man out this evening where to this point in time I have not seen the challenge or the need for support. I'm not saying we can't have improvements, but I'm not bought into committees, additional staff time effort. I would like to see an audience for downtown business property owners, current developers, future developers, telling me that this is a problem. I think I need to hear that personally from them to see what type of protections they are looking for or what type of things -- and I'm not going to beat around the bush. We know we are talking about the projects across the street that there were some initial design questions about. I don't -- but it's not built. It may turn out to be a gem of our downtown and we are going through this conversation about what might be -- what it might look like, you know, and I don't think that any of us know what it might look like well enough to make determinations that we need to create Page 24 Meridian City Council Work Session Item#1. December 7,2021 Page 22 of 25 a brand new committee process, invest further. I'm not saying I'm not open to it, I'm just not convinced that there is enough data or comments that I have heard that this -- taking these additional steps is warranted, needed, or it's a process we should move forward. But that's -- that's where I am today. I'm open to it, but I'm not convinced that this is the direction we should go. Bernt: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Bernt. Bernt: I -- I'm hearing you loud and clear and you are the Mayor. I mean at the end of the day it's just not something that you are -- you don't have your arms wrapped around, I don't know if the ultimate buy in is -- is going to happen. However, with my role on MDC, you know, I -- I have seen the process play out with the folks across the street and I believe that something that staff is talking about probably would have helped out the process, honestly. I think that maybe getting buy in and having folks -- you know, interested parties giving feedback may make sense and maybe what I'm hearing from you, Mr. Mayor, is maybe the totality of what staff is asking for maybe you don't quite agree with and maybe further discussion is needed. Maybe. Is that what you are saying? Simison: From my perspective, yes. But what I have tried to do is not impose my beliefs on what staff is limited to bring for Council to get feedback. Perhaps there could be changes to the information that we provide that would get us enough, as compared to going in other directions, but I don't know that. But I wanted there to be a conversation -- Bernt: We did. We had one. So, Mr. Mayor -- so, what -- what would be -- what would be your recommendation or maybe what are you looking for? Simison: My recommendation at this point in time would be if planning wants to pull together a downtown stakeholder meeting to talk specifically about this issue with people currently -- people that have recently done a project, currently doing projects, and ones that we know are likely to come forward and have a conversation about what would -- you know, again, protecting investments, streamlining processes, setting expectations and if they are all saying, yeah, a design review committee over in Boise is the way to go, let's put our money into that bucket, because they all love it so much and you get such great projects that are so beautiful over there out of that process. I'm -- Perreault: Mr. Mayor? Bernt: I feel like you are being a hair facetious. Simison: Just a hair facetious. Because I think we all understand that we -- everything is subjective. I have told people this. I hate the Wells Fargo Bank in downtown Boise -- building in downtown Boise. I don't really like Jump. But I have no issue with First Security, which is nothing, but the old -- it's just a tall building that's surrounded with glass Page 25 Meridian City Council Work Session Item#1. December 7,2021 Page 23 of 25 with no articulation. It -- that's me, you know. So, it's -- it's so subjective when it comes down to what we like or don't like. Council Woman Perreault. Perreault: Thank you. So, I'm also at that place of really understanding the root of this and the need and the reason I'm asking for specifics -- I don't-- I don't have an expectation that you name specific projects. What I'm trying to gather is what would be the flags, what would be the gates? My assumption is is the flag -- the list of -- the things that will spur on a review by this -- by the potential design committee, we have got to put together what those flags are and I'm curious if staff has already done that and I assume that the comments that have been received and the concerns that have been received and the applications that have gone through that -- that Councilman Bernt just mentioned, that all of those things are what's going to help us put together this -- these flags that we are going to be looking for, that that's the thing -- hey, when this -- when this type of project happens these are the concerns that have happened in the past and we need to start there as to which projects would require the review versus saying, oh, all of them in the Old Town designation are going to review; right? So, that's where I need that bridge gap for me and -- so there is that. The second thing I want to say is -- I know -- I'm very familiar with the overlays that Boise has in several of their districts. A lot of their neighborhoods in the older part of the city have overlays for this purpose. I know downtown does. Sunset District does. And some of those overlays were requested and spurred by the neighbors themselves by the -- the owners themselves. What -- what processes did they take to get those implemented? Was it their planning staff that went through that? Were their consultants hired? Do you have any idea? Hood: So, Mr. Mayor, again, kind of working backwards, that last one doesn't sound like either Brian or I know how those came to be in Boise. We can look into that and if-- if we come back for part two of this discussion we will bring you that answer. Going back -- and maybe even this -- and this actually ties in with the Mayor's comments and bringing those stakeholders together. There are some potential flags that we have identified, but to the Mayor's point we need to pull those people that are invested in our downtown to make sure the things we have heard, all of the things that are important, are the things that we want to protect. So, regardless -- but, really, the first step is to gather those folks and say, again, when -- when does something rise to the occasion of going through this extra process? What is it? You have got big buildings all around you? Is it because you are on this road or that road? Is it -- is it Iocational? Is it specific to -- what else? Is it two and a half times any building next to you? What are those triggers? So, we have got a short list, but we want to hear from the people that own property and develop do we have that list right -- and it's certainly not comprehensive at this point, it's just those initial kind of triggers that would say, okay, if this is present, yeah, we think maybe someone should look at that a little closer. So, it's not fully baked, as Cameron would say. We won't have it all ready to propose to you. This is what would trigger that. But, again, is there anything? Or is it to each his own and we are just going to be spinning our wheels, because you are going to like it and you are not and we can't bring those folks together for consensus and so what are we trying to even do? So, again, we have a list. We didn't bring that tonight to say here is -- you know, this is when that would apply. We could if we want to have -- maybe do the stakeholder meeting, develop an initial list of here is Page 26 Meridian City Council Work Session Item#1. December 7,2021 Page 24 of 25 triggers, if you will, that would say you go to some extra process when you propose something in this location and, again, we can even get into location specific. So, sorry this isn't -- doesn't have those details. We want to make sure that this was -- and, again, it's a mixed bag; right? I mean we have -- you guys are kind of all over the place with some that want to do maybe more and some don't want to do anything, so I'm glad we are having this conversation. I do value this direction, even though I don't hear a whole lot of solid this is -- this is where we are going, but -- Perreault: Mr. Mayor? Hood: -- more to do. Simison: Council Woman Perreault. Perreault: So, directly with that, then, Caleb, I -- I want -- I also would like to have that information before I'm comfortable saying, yes, we should proceed before we have conversations about consultants, before we have conversations about committee -- or putting an architectural or design review committee together. I really -- I think there still needs to be some more understanding of the need for myself. Hood: So, Mr. Mayor -- Perreault: I hope that's clear enough. Hood: And I think that Councilman Hoaglun had something, too, but I just want to -- I think we can probably take on that level of effort and I'm going to look at Brian, but only with one eye, because I know he is going to glare at me, but that's part of this conversation; right? We don't have a whole lot of bandwidth to even start to -- and what I'm afraid of is we open up that can we can't put it back in and we are going to open it up, we are going to say, hey, what do you guys think downtown should look like and they say, well, never mind, we aren't doing the project. What, you are not doing the -- you asked us to come and you asked for our feedback and it -- I think once we kick this off it's going to be hard to just say, never mind, we don't really want to do anything. So, just be aware of that. We can do some of that and, again, I think in house without going too far with a consultant or anywhere with a consultant, can start that conversation, but I don't know that we will be able to press pause or not do a project if we really invite people to participate, even at that level. Bernt: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Bernt. Bernt: It looks like we need part two, Caleb. I think that's what we need. And so I think that there has been some good discussion and some concerns and maybe a little bit of guidance. Maybe this can be hashed out, you know, with, you know, folks from the Planning Department, the Mayor and Council President, future Council President, and Page 27 Meridian City Council Work Session December 7,2021 Page 25 of 25 just sort of have a decent idea of maybe what this looks like and -- and dig a little bit deeper for part two. Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Hoaglun. Hoaglun: I'm fine with that approach. I mean it's -- it is -- Caleb let the cat out of the bag. Once people are involved and that it's that -- that train has left the station and it's a matter of, okay, where do we end up? Simison: It left 45 minutes ago, just so we are clear, so -- Hoaglun: But -- and that's why my question early on, though, about the design review committee in Old Town, because I think it has to be very specific to Old Town, possibly with stakeholders, with some involvement and knowledge of a special district that are engaged in that that -- and I have experienced with Boise's way back when when I worked for the mayor of design review and that process, but I also have that experience of when they decided what they were going to do -- when the mall wasn't going to go downtown and Mayor Kempthorne said he is not going to let downtown die and that collaborative effort that kicked off to make it what it is today, starting with that public plaza and the auditorium down -- Downtown Boise Center on the Grove, you know, we can do that same thing here. It's -- it's not going to be as large, but it's very important and -- and what we do now will be built upon for many many years to come. So, we do have to get it right and we do have a place where it's not going to be on your shoulders because you are not -- they are not -- you guys will do your part, but we need some outside help, just like we did in downtown Boise way back when to help make that a reality and bringing in the stakeholders and other people who see this as a place that is a destination and something that we can be very proud of for this community. So, I think we will get there, we will just have to work at it a little bit longer and make it a reality. Simison: So, to be continued. So, with that, Council -- Bernt: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Bernt. Bernt: I move that we adjourn the meeting. Simison: Motion to adjourn. All in favor signify by saying. Opposed nay? The ayes have it. We are adjourned. MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. TWO ABSENT. MEETING ADJOURNED AT 5.45 P.M. (AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS) 12 / 21 21 MAYOR ROBERT E. SIMISON DATE APPROVED ATTEST: Page 28 CHRIS JOHNSON - CITY CLERK