HomeMy WebLinkAbout2021-11-30 Special Minutes Item#1.
Meridian City Council November 30, 2021.
A Meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 6:00 p.m., Tuesday,
November 30, 2021, by Mayor Robert Simison.
Members Present: Robert Simison, Joe Borton, Treg Bernt, Jessica Perreault, Brad
Hoaglun and Liz Strader.
Members Absent: Luke Cavener.
Also present: Adrienne Weatherly, Bill Nary, Kurt Starman, Cameron Arial, Bruce
Freckleton, Sonya Allen, Tracy Basterrechea, Joe Bongiorno and Dean Willis.
ROLL-CALL ATTENDANCE
Liz Strader _X_ Joe Borton
_X_ Brad Hoaglun _X_Treg Bernt
_X_ Jessica Perreault Luke Cavener
_X_ Mayor Robert E. Simison
Simison: Council, we will call the meeting to order. For the record it is November 30th,
2021, at 6:00 o'clock p.m. We will begin tonight's Special City Council Meeting with roll
call attendance.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
Simison: Next time is the Pledge of Allegiance. If you would all, please, rise and join us
in the pledge.
(Pledge of Allegiance recited.)
ADOPTION OF AGENDA
Simison: Next item up is the adoption of the agenda.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: I move that we adopt the agenda as published.
Hoaglun: Second the motion.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to adopt the agenda as published. Is there any
discussion? If not, all in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay. The ayes have it
and the agenda is adopted.
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MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
CONSENT AGENDA [Action Item]
1. Approve Minutes of the November 16, 2021 City Council Regular
Meeting
2. Approve Minutes of the November 23, 2021 City Council Regular
Meeting
3. Small Talk Clinic (Verona Subdivision No. 3) Water Main Easement
4. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for Red Aspen (H-2021-0066)
by KM Engineering, LLP, Located at the southeast corner of S. Linder
Rd. and W. Overland Rd.
5. Agreement Between the City of Meridian and Brighton Development,
Inc. to Accept Payment in Lieu of Installing Streetlights at Bainbridge
No. 11 and No. 12 Subdivisions
6. Agreement Between the City of Meridian and Challenger
Development, Inc. to Accept Payment in Lieu of Installing
Streetlights at Cache Creek Subdivision
7. Agreement Between the City of Meridian and Triple D Development,
Inc. to Accept Payment in Lieu of Installing a Streetlight at Prevail
No. 3 Subdivision
8. Animal Welfare and Enforcement Agreement Between the City of
Meridian and the Idaho Humane Society
9. Master Interagency Governmental Agreement Between the City of
Meridian and the Meridian Library District for Waiver of Costs and
Fees
Simison: Next item up is the Consent Agenda.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: I will move that we approve the Consent Agenda, for the Mayor to sign and for the
Clerk to attest.
Hoaglun: Second the motion.
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Simison: I have a motion and a second to approve the Consent Agenda. Is there any
discussion? If not, all in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay. The ayes have it
and the Consent Agenda is agreed to.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
ITEMS MOVED FROM THE CONSENT AGENDA [Action Item]
Simison: There are no items moved from the Consent Agenda.
DEPARTMENT / COMMISSION REPORTS [Action Item]
10. Mayor's Office: Recommendation of Appointment of Bruce
Freckleton to Community Development Director with an Effective
Date of December 21, 2021
Simison: So, we will move on to Department/Commissioner Reports. First item up is
Item No. 10, Mayor's Office recommendation of appointment of Bruce Freckleton to be
the Community -- Community Development Director, with an effective date of December
21 st, 2021. Council, before you is my recommendation to make Bruce Freckleton the
City of Meridian's Community Development Director with the departure of Cameron Arial
later this month. Bruce is a known quantity to all of you, maybe some more than others,
but he's a known quantity to the community as well. He spent the last 41 years here in
the Treasure Valley working in the development community, 12 years in the private sector
and 29 years for the City of Meridian and he has served in his current role since 2004. 1
say served in his current role since 2004, but that does not mean his role has not grown,
evolved, matured in a lot of ways and I think as we have seen the work that Cameron
started in bringing a lot of services in house, there was really Bruce doing the
implementation of those efforts, leading those teams, leading those changes. That is
one of the things that I can say is I know he is committed to continuing those efforts,
working at our processes, whether they are internal or external, to ensure that we have
the premier community development department here in the Treasure Valley. He knows
the community. The community knows him. They know the expectations. He's able to
pick up the phone and call and make things happen, whether it's with our neighbors to
the east or west, others within the state, to get things moving forward. While it is a growth
opportunity and there is some things that he's going to have to learn, it's also something
that I think that he can step into right away without the department feeling that learning
curve and continuing to highly achieve and perform well. I have learned a lot about Bruce
over the last couple months as we have been having conversations and learning from
current and former employees management style, how he leads, how he interacts and
say that right now he is the right person for the job in order to continue this process. So,
it's with my pleasure that I recommend him for your consideration to lead the department
and I would be happy to answer any questions or take comments from Council at this
time.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
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Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Just a comment. I think that's a great recommendation. People really benefit
from his experience and his leadership and I'm very supportive of that nomination.
Simison: Thank you.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: I wholeheartedly agree with Council Woman Strader. I'm excited to see Bruce
in this role. I had the opportunity to work with him as the Council liaison last year and he
definitely knows his stuff. So, I appreciate the recommendation very much.
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: I am sick as a dog, but I wouldn't want to miss this. Bruce is a champion of the
Meridian Way. He's shown that for decades. He's such a great pick and, I, too, am
totally supportive of it and appreciate seeing how it will grow with great talent within and
the whole community development team is going to be in good hands with Bruce's
leadership.
Simison: Thank you.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor, I had a question for you.
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: You said he's been in development work for 41 years.
Simison: Forty-one years.
Hoaglun: Forty-one years. Okay. Can I continue?
Simison: Yes.
Hoaglun: You want yours? If I can continue?
Simison: Yes.
Borton: Okay. Great. I appreciate that. I didn't realize that we had a prodigy, because
I thought Bruce just turned 50, so he started at nine years old. Wow. It's a long time --
a lot of great experience and a great way of doing business. I have been able to see that
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over the years and it's wonderful to see. I think you are right, Mayor. He is -- it is a
growth experience for him and stepping into that role is a big step, but he is more than up
to the challenge. So, I think it's a great appointment and I look forward to what Bruce
can do for the department and for this community and definitely want to eagerly support
this.
Simison: Thank you.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: Great choice. Sorry you're not able to see me. It's kind of a special occasion.
Bruce is a champion for Meridian. He knows the department. He knows his -- his team
that he will be working with and I wholeheartedly support him and grateful for his efforts
in the past and currently and going forward. So, thanks, Bruce.
Simison: Thank you. With that, Council, do I have a motion?
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: I move we approve the recommendation and the appointment of Bruce
Freckleton to be the Director of Community Development for the City of Meridian with an
effective date of December 21, 2021.
Hoaglun: Second the motion.
Simison: I have a motion and a second. Is there any discussion? If not, Clerk will call
the roll.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Cavener, absent; Bernt, yea; Perreault, yea; Hoaglun, yea; Strader,
yea.
Simison: All ayes. Motion carries and the item is agreed to.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Simison: Congratulations, Mr. Freckleton. Would you like to come up and say a few
words?
Freckleton: Well, thank you, Mr. Mayor and Members of the Council. I -- I am deeply
honored by this appointment and your continued confidence in me to lead the Community
Development Department into the future. I want you to know that I don't take these
responsibilities lightly at all and I promise you that I will work every day to live out and to
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instill the CARE values that we promote. I have been very very fortunate in my career to
have so many great influencers. Councilman Hoaglun, I was a junior in high school when
I started in this field. I was working for a small land surveying engineering firm doing
drafting. So, it does take me back a little ways. But as far as the influencers, throughout
my years I mean I have had so many good leaders that took me under their wing and
taught me a lot. Cameron Arial has been just stellar. He's done so much for our
department and I'm going to really really miss him when he's gone, but I'm extremely
humbled by the support and encouragement that I have received from -- from staff and
everyone and -- but I especially want to thank my wife Connie, who is here with me
tonight, and our family. They have always been my rock and I just so greatly appreciate
that. I'm excited for the future of our department and for the City of Meridian. Our
employees are the absolute best in their field and I can't think of a better group of people
that I would rather be in the trenches with every day. I also look forward to working with
each of you and getting to know you better and forwarding our work. Forward the vision
and mission of the City of Meridian. So, again, thank you for your support and it's going
to be fun. I appreciate it. Thank you.
Simison: Thank you. Council, if you could join us in a round of applause for Bruce. With
that, Mr. Borton, thank you for your attendance and feel better and we will see you soon.
11. Legal/Police Department: Presentation Regarding Idaho Opioid
Settlement Intrastate Allocation Agreement
Simison: Okay. Next Item up is the Legal/Police Department presentation regarding
Idaho Opioid Settlement Intrastate Allocation Agreement and I will turn this over to Kurt.
Starman: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Members of Council. Kurt Starman at the city attorney's
office. The item before you this evening pertains to two settlement agreements that relate
to or intended to resolve a number of opioid-related claims against Johnson & Johnson
and three large drug distributors as well. So, I'm going to talk a little bit more about those
agreements, as well as a funding agreement or allocation agreement that's been
proposed by the state of Idaho and the chief is here tonight, then, to also talk about the
impact that opioids have had in our community, as well as how the funds from this
settlement -- from these two settlement agreements could potentially be used within our
community to help mitigate some of those impacts from the opioid crisis. As I mentioned,
there are two settlement agreements. These are nationwide agreements that most states
have agreed to, including Idaho. They involve Johnson & Johnson, as well as three of
the largest drug distributors in the nation as well and when Idaho agreed to participate in
the settlement agreements that also opened up funding opportunities for all of Idaho
counties, as well as some Idaho cities, including the City of Meridian, and so that issue is
not quite ripe for your consideration tonight. We think we will probably have something
on your agenda maybe in a week or two that would actually deal with the settlement
agreements themselves, so I will talk more about that in a moment, but tonight is just sort
of to present the idea to the Council, but also to get your approval for the -- or at least
your consideration of the proposed allocation agreement that the state has proposed.
So, the -- the agreements -- the settlement agreements themselves contain a default
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funding mechanism or formula that talks about absent a -- a different agreement amongst
the state and the local government entities in that state, there is a default formula that
basically says funds received under the settlement agreement, 15 percent go to the state
of Idaho, 15 percent go to cities and counties and, then, 70 percent go to -- or are placed
in a trust fund that is administered by a committee consisting of state and local officials.
So, absent some type of other agreement, that's how the funding would be allocated.
Under that formula we anticipate that Meridian would receive, if we choose to participate,
Meridian receive about -- would receive about 431,000 dollars over a 17 year period, but
the settle arguments also contemplate that states may want to adopt a formula that -- or
funding allocation formula that might be more suited for their particular needs and their
particular state and so Idaho has proposed such a form --funding formula and that's really
what's before the Council this evening. The state has proposed what is called an
intrastate allocation agreement that would allocate 40 percent of the settlement funds to
the state of Idaho, 40 percent of the funds to counties and cities, and, then, 20 percent to
the local health districts here in Idaho as well. So, under that formula, that's
advantageous for Meridian in particular, because we believe that under that formula the
city would receive about 1.15 million dollars over a 17 year period, as opposed to the
431,000 1 mentioned earlier. So, obviously, there -- those additional funds could be put
to use in our community to help counteract the impact of the opioid crisis. In addition to
that it also opens up other potential funding down the road. There are at least two large
pharmaceutical companies that are currently going through bankruptcy proceedings,
including Purdue, and if we agree to the funding allocation the state has proposed,
Meridian would be entitled to a share of those funds as well. Without that funding
agreement that's proposed by Idaho that would not be the case. So, there are a number
of advantages associated with participating in the funding agreement, the allocation
agreement that's been proposed. The potential pitfall or a downside to it is it does come
with some additional strings attached in that the state is proposing some additional
reporting requirements and also some additional accounting requirements. So, we have
met internally with the Finance Department and with the Police Department to discuss
those requirements and we think they are manageable, but the Council should be aware
that there are some additional reporting and financial considerations that come with that.
They are not -- not insurmountable, but something to be aware of. So, ultimately, our
recommendation this evening will be -- after the chief is going to talk about opioids -- the
impact of opioids in Meridian in particular and, then, how these funds potentially could be
used, but also at the end of our presentation the recommendation to the Council this
evening is to approve the proposed intrastate allocation agreement. That's step one in
our process. And, then, shortly in the next week or two we will be back in front of the
Council with the actual asking for your consideration to approve the actual settlement
agreements with Johnson & Johnson and with the three distributors and with those two
action items that will enable the city to receive the funding I talked about. I'm going to
pause there, I'm going to turn the microphone over to the chief and he will talk about those
Meridian specific topics and, then, we are both happy to stand for questions you may
have.
Basterrechea: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, one of the things that brought this
lawsuit about was the -- the push by the big pharmaceutical companies with painkillers in
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this country. They estimated that they overpopulated the market by about one hundred
billion pain pills, resulting in over 400,000 opioid overdose deaths, which is what has
brought us here today. As a result of that, what we have seen locally and across the
country is more and more people -- as finally we started controlling the prescription pill
problem, more and more people turning to heroin and black market pills, which is what
we are seeing now. We are seeing a lot of Fentanyl come into Idaho. They are pressing
them into pills that look like they are Hydrocodone and other types of pain pills and we
are seeing overdoses like we have never seen before in our own community. We are
probably averaging a minimum of two overdoses at least a week. This last week we just
had a 27 year old overdose and die. We have had several people -- several overdose
deaths, which has pushed us to the point where we have partnered with the High Intensity
Drug Trafficking area called HIDTA and we are developing a mapping system to go
through Meridian as a test platform for Ada county to be able to track our overdoses
throughout the city, so that we will be able to track when we believe that we are getting a
bad batch of heroin in or a large push of Fentanyl into the area. There is -- there is no
identifier as to who the person is that overdosed. It's something that we are going to be
able to use to track more accurately and be able to target more towards the opioid
problem as an actual public health issue. We keep hearing it called that, but nobody
seems to want to do anything public healthwise with that. So, the Police Department
that's really where we are pushing. We have partnered with the Fire Department and got
them on board, as well as paramedics with that program. Moving forward with these
funds, one of the things we are looking at doing is funding a --we have a part-time position
and we are looking into seeing if we can fund that as a full-time position with the Meridian
Anti-Drug Coalition. We also are looking into some different programs that we can
hopefully bring to Meridian using some of these funds to help with those addiction issues
that we are dealing with here and we can also use those for educational purposes as well
and with that I will stand for any questions.
Simison: Thank you, Chief and Kurt. Council, any questions?
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Yeah. I'm just curious some of the things that, you know, we think we could use
the funding for, if you have identified any potential projects. I assume that we carry
Narcan already or --
Basterrechea: We do carry Narcan already. However, it does expire, so that is a funding
source as well for Narcan. The other thing that we have looked at is are there other
recovery programs or things that we could help prop up in Meridian, so that we can battle
it on the front side and the back side of things. There is a lot of really good programs out
there that give people a different outlet in their struggles with addiction, so those are
some of the things that Kendall Nagy, who is in charge of the anti-drug coalition, is looking
at right now.
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Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Yeah. I mean that's great to hear. There have been several documentaries,
too, that have come out about the crisis that was created by the pharmaceutical
companies and, you know, I remember the proliferation of pain clinics and stuff around
and clearly now we are seeing some horrible effects from that and addiction touches so
many families. So, hopefully, we can put that to good use. Thanks.
Simison: And I think, you know, we -- we have such a strong relationship with our
educational providers that, you know, there is not enough time for -- there is a lot more
need to get into the schools and help engage them and we have people to do that and
that's one of the benefits of going from a part time to full time and this is a position that's
been vacant for a while and we have been looking for the right opportunity to come to
Council, quite frankly, to take that part time to full time, because of that need and this is a
great segue into that conversation.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: First of all thank you so much, gentlemen, for working on this. This is great
news for this opportunity. I do have a question for Mr. Starman if I may. Are there any
other considerations -- other than the -- the additional amount of funds that will be
received and the additional reporting obligations, are there any other upsides or
downsides that we should know about the interstate allocation agreement?
Starman: Any other --
Perreault: Any other upsides or downsides or any other obligations or is that, essentially,
how those two items are the -- the main effects that it has on us or is there anything else
that we should take into consideration?
Starman: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Council Woman Perreault. I think the two -- the two
major issues you have already touched upon -- one is there are additional reporting
requirements with the state proposed allocation agreement, so that largely will fall upon
the Police Department and our partners to generate the annual reports and to be able to
prepare that and submit that to the state of Idaho. In addition to that there is some
additional accounting and auditing requirements. Our Finance Department estimates that
if we were required to do a special audit it could be as much as 7,000 dollars per year.
So, that's something to take into consideration as well. But there are two other potential
downsides. We have looked at the agreements pretty thoroughly and I think we are
satisfied that, really, that there is nothing significant there that would be to the city's
detriment. There is always administrative burdens that come with grant funds, but I don't
think there is anything significant there that -- that would, you know, impact our
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recommendation to the Council. The upsides -- I think the one I will highlight a little bit
more than I did in my initial comments is the -- the impetus for being here tonight largely
is the two settlement agreements -- two settlement agreements with Johnson & Johnson
and with the three distributors, but the other really strong upside for Meridian is that by
entering into the allocation agreement it also opens up potential funding from the two
major pharmaceuticals that are currently in bankruptcy. That could be several hundreds
of thousands of dollars more than what we have talked about tonight. We don't know the
answer to that quite yet, but without the allocation agreement Meridian would not be
eligible for those funds at all. So, that was a significant potential upside.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor, follow up?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: Thank you. So, are there a certain number of entities that need to agree to
the interstate -- Intrastate Allocation Agreement in order for-- I mean do a certain number
of cities or counties have to sign on in order for it to go into effect?
Starman: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Council Member Perreault. Yes, what the state is
looking for is basic -- basically it's population based, based on counties, as well as those
cities that are eligible to participate and the magic threshold for the state is 50 percent
plus one. So, based -- weighted based upon population. When I spoke to our point of
contact with the Attorney General's Office about a week or ten days ago they were at the
high 30s and they fully anticipated that they would meet the 50 percent threshold, so --
but it was possible -- I mentioned two things. One is it's possible that 50 percent plus one
does not agree, in which case the allocation agreement we are not going to place, number
one. Number two is even once the allocation agreement is in place and if Meridian and
others agree to the settlement agreements at a later date, there is also a touch point for
Johnson & Johnson, as well as for the three distributors, that after the first of the year,
like after January 2nd to be more precise, they will do another assessment to see if there
is sufficient participation to work -- to proceed with the settlement. So, actually, there is a
-- to us in the -- in a vernacular, an offering up for Johnson & Johnson and the distributors
that there is not enough participation nationwide, but my understanding is that the
participation has been pretty strong so far.
Perreault: Thank you. One more question?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: Thank you. So, sometimes these -- these lawsuits and settlements go on for
years and years. So, are we at the end of that process? I mean when -- when -- when
will these funds actually be distributed? I mean can't they not often take a really long time
to actually receive funds?
Starman: Mr. Mayor, Council Member Perreault, that's a very accurate statement and we
have all experienced probably in our professional life and perhaps otherwise lengthy
litigation. The good news here is this litigation has been ongoing for quite some time and
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we are at the tail end and so as opposed to going into trial, the defendants here have
agreed to a settlement agreement with the states that are participating and so if after that
January 2nd date if Johnson & Johnson and the three drug distributors decide to proceed,
there is enough mass to proceed that really does bring that litigation to a close, the
settlement agreement goes into place, and, then, funding that starts -- there are actually
two installments in 2022. The first is in the March time frame and there is a second
installment in the July 2022 time frame and, then, there are annual installments thereafter.
Perreault: Thank you very much. I appreciate that detail.
Starman: You are welcome.
Simison: And just to kind of follow up on the things, I don't know if this was ever identified
-- if necessary can we use these funds to do the audit?
Starman: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. The agreement still -- the settlement agreement, as
well as the allocation agreement, don't specifically say that, but my answer is yes,
because both agreements say that a minimum of 85 percent of the funds have to be used
for direct opioid related activities, which in my mind means that up to 15 percent can be
used for administrative purposes. So, there is no explicit language to that effect, but my
reading of the agreements is that the funding -- the funds up to 15 percent can be used
for administrative purposes.
Simison: Well, hopefully, the defense can pay for themselves for the work that we are
asked to do to utilize them, because they are asking us to do the work.
Starman: I think that's a fair statement.
Simison: Council, any further questions? Okay.
Starman: Mr. Mayor, that completes our presentation. The next item on your agenda --
this was Item 11. So, presentation Item 12 is an action item relative to the allocation
agreement and we ask for your consideration tonight. Thank you.
Simison: Thank you, Kurt. So, with that, Council, we will move on to Item 12, which is as
stated -- request to approve the Idaho Opioid Settlement Intrastate Allocation Agreement
between the state of Idaho health districts and eligible local governments.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: Since our police liaison is not feeling well this evening I will make the motion.
I move that we approve the Idaho Opioid Settlement Intrastate Allocation Agreement
between the state of Idaho, the health districts, and the eligible local governments,
including the City of Meridian.
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Strader: Second the motion.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to approve the allocation agreement. Is there
any discussion? If not, all in favor signify by saying aye. Nay? All ayes. Motion carries.
Thank you.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. TWO ABSENT.
ACTION ITEMS
13. Public Hearing and Second Reading Continued from November 23, 2021 of
Ordinance No. 21-1954: An Ordinance of the City Council of the City of Meridian,
Idaho, Approving the (Option A) Urban Renewal Plan for the Northern Gateway
District Urban Renewal Project, Which Plan Includes Revenue Allocation Financing
Provisions; Authorizing the City Clerk to Transmit a Copy of This Ordinance and
Other Required Information to County and State Officials and the Affected Taxing
Entities; Providing Severability; Approving the Summary of the Ordinance; and
Providing an Effective Date
Simison: So, Council, with that we will move on to our Action Items this evening. First
item up is Item 13, which is a public hearing and second reading continued from
November 23rd, 2021, of Ordinance No. 21-1954. Mr. Nary, should we do the second
reading first before the public hearing?
Nary: Yes, sir.
Simison: Okay. I will ask the clerk to do the second reading.
Weatherly: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. This is Ordinance No. 21-1954, an ordinance of the
City Council of the City of Meridian, Idaho, approving the (Option A) Urban Renewal Plan
for the Northern Gateway District Urban Renewal Project, which plan includes revenue
allocation financing provisions; authorizing the City Clerk to transmit a copy of this
ordinance and other required information to county and state officials and the affected
taxing entities; providing severability; approving the summary of the ordinance; and
providing an effective date.
Simison: Thank you. Council, you have heard the second reading done by title. Is there
anybody that would like it read in its entirely? Seeing none, we will, then, move on to the
public hearing for this item. Do we need to have a staff presentation on this item? I didn't
know if we -- I didn't think we did. Okay. All right. Then --
Conrad: Hello. Okay. Thank you. Sorry about that. Oh. Thank you. Thank you.
Simison: So, Meghan, are you going to be doing a presentation for both items?
Conrad: I will be, Mayor. Thank you.
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14. Public Hearing and Second Reading Continued from November 23,
2021 of Ordinance No. 21-1956: An Ordinance of the City Council of
the City of Meridian, Idaho, Approving the First Amendment to the
Urban Renewal Plan for the Union District Urban Renewal Project,
Which First Amendment Seeks to Annex Certain Parcels to the
Existing Union District Project Area; Which First Amendment
Includes Revenue Allocation Financing Provisions; Authorizing the
City Clerk to Transmit a Copy of This Ordinance and Other Required
Information to County and State Officials and the Affected Taxing
Entities; Providing Severability; Approving the Summary of the
Ordinance; and Providing an Effective Date
Simison: Okay. Then why don't we go ahead and open up Item 14 as well, which is a
public hearing and second reading continued from November 23rd, 2021 , of Ordinance
No. 21-1956, and ask the Clerk to read this ordinance by title.
Weatherly: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. This is Ordinance No. 21-1956, an ordinance of the
City Council of the City of Meridian, Idaho, approving the First Amendment to the Urban
Renewal Plan for the Union District Urban Renewal Project, which First Amendment
seeks to annex certain parcels to the existing Union District project area; which First
Amendment includes revenue allocation financing provisions; authorizing the City Clerk
to transmit a copy of this ordinance and other required information to county and state
officials and the affected taxing entities; providing severability; approving the summary of
the ordinance; and providing an effective date.
Simison: Thank you. You have heard this ordinance read by title. Is there anybody that
would like it read in its entirety? Okay. Seeing none, Meghan, if you would state your
name and address for the record and be recognized for your presentation.
Conrad: Thank you, Mayor. Meghan Conrad. I am an attorney at Elam & Burke, 251
East Front Street, Boise, Idaho. 83701. So, before you today for public hearing the Urban
Renewal Plan for the Northern Gateway Urban Renewal District. On your screen now
you have the map of the proposed project area, which includes parcels north and south
of Fairview Avenue and generally east of -- east of Meridian Road and north of Pine
Avenue. It is 126 acres. On this slide you will see the plan that is at Idaho Code
specifically 50-2905. This is a slide that you have seen before as this plan has come
before you a number of times at this point. However, in bold text beside each bullet point
you will see this reference in the plan where the statutory obligation is met. For parcels
that have been used as an ag operation, which is a defined term under the law and the
act, there is one parcel that required property owner consent. That is a 17 acre parcel
that is located at Meridian Road and Cherry. That property, when we started this process,
was actually located within unincorporated Ada county. As you know that parcel is
referred to as the McFadden property that has since been fully annexed into the City of
Meridian and the property -- an agricultural operation consent was obtained from that
property owner. In terms of the projects that are identified in the plan, they were
specifically informed by the city's Comprehensive Plan, Destination Downtown, both city
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and MDC staff, the Trivium Planning, as well as the owners within the boundaries of the
proposed project area. Here you will find the specific list of the projects that are
anticipated to be undertaken during the life of this project area, which, under current
statute, is permitted to be in place for 20 years, but recognizing that revenues will be
received in the year following the termination date. Most of these dollars will be used to
support infrastructure improvements and buy right of way, specifically streets. There will
be also sewer and water system improvements. There is pedestrian improvements,
facade improvements, public parking plazas, open space, environmental remediation and
some planning studies. The estimated cost of these improvements using 2021 dollars
and based on similar projects that have occurred in the -- in the broader community. It's
estimated the grand total is about 34 million. So, 33,925,000 dollars. On this slide there
is a more defined list of the roadway improvements that were identified by the Trivium
Planning in its review of the project area and also some estimated construction costs and
you will see that for the construction of these right-of-ways it's about 11 --just slightly over
11 million for the scope of these improvements. Also included in the plan is a list of
potential sewer and water lines and new sewer and water line infrastructure to be added
that are located within the boundaries of the project area. In the plan it's noted as
Attachment 5, which is the economic feasibility study. The tax increment revenue
projection is anticipated to be a little over 35 million for the 20 year life of the project. The
private investment that's anticipated to occur based on the communications that have
been held within the boundaries of this project area are estimated to be 310 million. The
economic feasibility study included a number of specific assumptions. In generating that
revenue figure, specifically based on recent history with value increases, land values are
anticipated to increase eight percent a year for the first five years and, then, it will be four
percent a year for the balance of the term, which is pretty conservative. Similarly, the
improvement value increase is estimated to be ten percent for the first five years, with a
reduction of five percent for the balance of the term. The levy rate was reduced by ten
percent, which is also a fairly conservative estimate when we are looking at revenue
generation. Homeowners property tax exemptions were anticipated to increase about
five percent a year. The significant new development projects were analyzed to -- or
anticipated to occur during the years of 2024 to 2035 and there are an allocated 500,000
of new development that would occur in the -- in the off years. Finally, the other
consideration under new statutory changes, in order to receive the allocation from Ada
County Highway District an agreement between the agency and ACHD is necessary and
that step has also been completed at this point, so -- and just skipping ahead pretty --
oops. There is a timeline in here that shows the process that has been undertaken to
date and you will see that there has been a robust opportunity and presentation on this
plan several times over the -- this process. So, happy to stay in for any questions on
Northern Gateway.
Simison: Thank you. Council, any questions on this item?
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
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Perreault: I don't have any specific questions. Thank you very much for -- for all the
information. Is it possible for us to get a copy of this presentation e-mailed to us?
Conrad: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Council Member. It actually is here and that is not going
to be a problem at all. I can get that to you.
Simison: Council, any additional questions at this time?
Conrad: I'm sorry, can you help me get back to the -- the slide view? I'm not a tech
person. Nope. Not that one. Thank you. All right. Mr. Mayor, okay to jump into the first
amendment? Thank you. So, you also have before you for a public hearing the First
Amendment to the Urban Renewal Plan for the Union District Urban Renewal Project.
The Union District was adopted in 2020. The area that we are talking about today was
de-annexed from the existing downtown area and represents 1.461 acres. So, it's a very
small area and you can see in the photo -- in their slide that it does border and is appended
to the existing Union District. Similar to the presentation on Northern Gateway, there are
the statutory requirements of what must be included in an urban renewal plan pursuant
to 50-2905. Those bullet points have been identified here in the bold parentheses behind
shows the specific sections of the plan amendments or the original plan that addresses
this specific area. As you will note this -- if we get to number seven below, this amendment
does not extend the life of the existing revenue allocation area, it still is intended to
terminate in 2040, recognizing that revenue allocation proceeds will be received in the
year following termination. There are two issues at play when you have a post-2016
amendment to an existing revenue allocation area. The first is whether or not such
amendment constitutes a modification that would result in a resetting of the base
assessment roll. Under Idaho code there are four exceptions, the definition of what
constitutes a modification, and one of those is specifically an amendment to add area
pursuant to 50-2033. That statute stands for the proposition that you can annex into an
existing project area no more than ten percent of the existing acreage and that acreage
must be contiguous to the existing boundary. This is the case in this area. The original
Union District project area is just short of 16 acres, it's 15.8, 1 believe, and we are annexing
1.461. So, we fall within that ten percent limitation. For that reason this does not
constitute a modification under the 50-2903(a), that would require a base reset of the --
of the original project area. Again, the project list here was formed by the city's
Comprehensive Plan, Destination Downtown, both communications with city and MDC
staff, as well as property owners slash developers that are within this area. On this first
slide we have shown what the original union district project improvement list was, mostly
centered around some public infrastructure improvements on the top half, improvements
at 3rd and Broadway, and you will also see references to the civic block improvements,
as well as some structured parking. This slide identifies the additional improvements that
are contemplated as a result of this particular amendment. The subtotal for these new
improvements is going to be 13 million. So, it brings the total of the original proposed
improvements, together with these improvements, to 28 million. These improvements
include the improvements to the facade, property acquisition, improvements to public
plazas, parks and open space, any environmental remediation. A portion of Idaho Avenue
is included within this project area, as well as planning studies. In conducting the revenue
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analysis of this proposed project area it was taken into consideration facts that have
occurred that would somewhat change the revenue allocation based on development that
had or had been delayed in the existing union district, as well as the potential for new
development occurring within this 1.461 acres. So, the total increment yield over the 20
year life of this district is estimated to be a little over 25 million dollars. The private
development that is anticipated to occur as a result of urban renewal efforts in this area
is about 225 million dollars. The assumptions are very similar to those that were used in
the Northern Gateway analysis, particularly the percentage increase year over year of the
assessed values. For land eight percent and, then, reducing to four percent after five
years. For the improvement value ten percent, again, reducing to five percent after five
years. In this example the tax rate is also reduced by ten percent and when we are talking
about the tax rate we are talking about the eligible tax rate for those levies that do
generate revenue for the urban renewal agency, which, as you know, is not the entire
levy. It's those that qualify under the statute. The new development occurring in this
district is really intended to be -- or estimated to be focused on the years 2024 to 2028.
For this one as well, because of the statutory changes the law requiring an agreement
between the agency and the Ada County Highway District would apply to this amendment
area and that step has also been completed here as well and here is the timeline that is
similar -- similarly undertaken for both the First Amendment, as well as the Northern
Gateway project area. As you know there is two phases to this planning process, the
eligibility phase and the plan approval phase, and so as part of the plan approval phase
the plan and its attachments and certain additional information were circulated to all of
the effective taxing districts more than 30 days in advance of the public hearing date. The
notice of the public hearing was published in the paper. There is -- originally scheduled
to occur on the 23rd. On that date that public hearings were continued and the notice of
the new publication date for today's date was also published in the paper. November 16th
was the date the City Council did the first reading of the ordinance. Today's the time set
for the public hearing and the second reading. And the third and final reading is scheduled
to -- for your consideration on December 7th and with that happy to stand for any
questions on the first amendment.
Simison: Thank you, Meghan. Council, any questions?
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: Thank you very much. Would you mind going back to the slide that was called
revenue model and assumptions? So, the tax increment yield of 25 million, how did that
figure come to be? Obviously, it's based on the estimate of private development
investment and, then, the tax increment yield, but it seems like that that just -- that is a
significant amount for that small geographic size, even -- even developed very very well.
That just seems like an exceptional amount to generate for that block, so I want to have
some more understanding of that. And, then, in addition the -- on -- with both of these
the land value increases and the improved -- improvement value increases, the
assumptions that are made, what basis are those? Is that an historical basis, it's based
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on information that's been collected over a matter of time or is this based on assumptions
from commercial real estate industry that's anticipating these -- these gains? Can you
give us some background for that?
Conrad: Yes. Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Council Member. Those are both great questions
and so for the first question concerning the revenue generation in the First Amendment,
there is an Attachment 5.A that is attached to the plan and the 25 million, actually, it's a
combined from the existing Union District, plus the addition of this 1.4. So, that's not only
the revenue generated from the 1.4. So, specifically it is 5.2 -- my number is cut off, but
it's 5.3.A I believe is where you will find this specific table that -- that shows the revenue
generation and the development, but it is a combined, it's not just for the 1.461 and I don't
-- my understanding is that the -- for your second question the percentages as to the
growth, there was a backwards look as to what has occurred historically in projecting
forward.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor, a follow up?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: Yeah. I -- I assumed that that included that all of the geographic area of the
-- the existing and new acreage. It's still a very small -- it's a city block. So, if you have
anymore thoughts on how that city block should yield 25 million dollars in tax increment
over 20 years, I'm -- I'm -- my ears are wide open.
Conrad: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Council Member. I mean there is intended to be some
significant development on those blocks in terms of, you know, higher density residential
rental, as well as office, and those ultimately will have fairly significant value. Again, we
are projecting into the future and so it's -- those are anticipated to come on the tax roll
about 2025, 2026 and some of those numbers are based on data that we obtained during
the drafting of the Union District plan and those were numbers that were also provided by
the development group at that time. So, that helped inform the data that -- that was
carried forward here as well.
Simison: Council, any additional questions? Thank you very much.
Conrad: Thank you.
Simison: Council, this is a public hearing. Madam Clerk, do we have anyone signed up
to provide testimony on these items?
Weatherly: Mr. Mayor, we do not.
Simison: Okay. This is a public hearing. If there is anybody that would like to come
forward and provide testimony on any of these two items you can do so now and if you
are online and would like to testify, you can use the raise your hand feature and we can
bring you in for visual comments. Council, seeing no one wishing to come forward in the
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room or raising their hand online, do I have a motion to close the public hearing?
Hearings.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: I move that we close the public hearing for Ordinance No. 21-1954 and the
public hearing for Ordinance No. 21-1956.
Perreault: Second.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearings for Ordinance No.
21-1954 and Ordinance No. 21-1956. Is there any discussion? If not, all in favor signify
by saying aye. Opposed nay? The ayes have it and the public hearings are closed.
guess you are looking to me, because we are not taking any action tonight on these items.
So, with that --with the public hearings being closed, we will have the third reading on the
-- on next week's City Council agenda. So, thank you everyone, Meghan, Cameron, Tori,
for being here this evening.
15. Approval of Johnson St Right-of-Way Vacation (H-2021-0079) by
Hawkins Companies, Located on the south side of W. Waltman Ln.
approximately 1/8-mile west of S. Meridian Rd., between 235 and 295
W. Waltman Ln.
A. Request: Vacation of an Ada County Highway District (ACHD) right-
of-way (i.e. Johnson St.) located between 235 and 295 W. Waltman
Ln.
Simison: Next item up is Item No. 15, which is approval of Johnson right-of-way vacation,
H-2021-0079. I will turn this over to Sonya for any comments.
Allen: Give me just a minute, Mr. Mayor. Let me get the presentation up here. Alrighty.
The first application before you tonight is a request for a vacation of ACHD right of way.
The right of way proposed to be vacated lies on the south side of West Waltman Lane
between 235 and 295 West Waltman Lane. The applicant proposes to vacate .43 of an
acre of ACHD right of way consisting of Johnson Street. The reason is because the
applicant owns the parcels adjacent to the subject right of way and wishes to develop the
area with commercial uses. As is the location of the road interferes with the development
plan. With development of the area the access driveway or street is proposed to be
relocated approximately 50 feet to the west as shown. A relinquishment letter was
received from Idaho Power stating that they have no facilities in the area proposed to be
vacated. The Public Works Department verified that there are no water or sewer mains
located in the area proposed to be vacated. Therefore, the proposed vacation will not
impact city utilities. The ACHD commission has already approved the request. Staff is
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recommending approval of the proposed vacation and no written testimony has been
submitted. There are no outstanding issues for Council. Thank you.
Simison: Thank you. Council, any questions for staff? If not do I have any motions?
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: I guess a question. Do we need to have a -- open a public hearing for this or
does it not fall into that category?
Simison: It's not a public hearing.
Strader: With that I would be happy to make a motion. After considering that ACHD has
approved this, it doesn't impact the utilities, I would move that we go ahead and approve
this Item No. 15 after considering all staff, applicant, and public testimony to approve file
number H-2021-0079 as presented in the staff report for today's hearing date.
Perreault: Second.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to approve the vacation request. Is there any
discussion? If not, Clerk will call the roll.
Roll call: Borton, absent; Cavener, absent; Bernt, yea; Perreault, yea; Hoaglun, yea;
Strader, yea.
Simison: All ayes. Motion carries and the item is agreed to.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. TWO ABSENT.
16. Public Hearing Continued from November 23, 2021 for Fast Eddy's at
Eagle (H-2021-0068) by Steve Eddy, Located at 3775 N. Eagle Rd.
A. Request: Modification to the Existing Development Agreement (H-
2018-0006 - Inst. #2018-042029) to remove the requirement for the
driveway along the west side of the retail store to be extended to
the north property boundary for future extension and
interconnectivity in accord with UDC 11-3A-3A; and a cross-
access/ingress-egress easement to be provided to the property to
the north (Parcel #R4582530202, 13984 W. Jasmine Ln.).
Simison: Next up is Item 16, which was a public hearing continued from November 23rd,
2021, for Fast Eddy's at Eagle, H-2021-0068. I will turn this over to Sonya.
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Allen: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council. The next application before you
is a request for a development agreement modification. This site is zoned C-G and is
located at 3775 North Eagle Road. The Comprehensive Plan future land use map
designation for the property is mixed use regional. A little history on the property.
Development agreements -- a development agreement was recorded for this property in
2018 that requires the driveway along the west side of the property to be extended to the
property to the north for future extension and interconnectivity and a cross-access
easement to be granted in accord with UDC 11-3A-3A prior to issuance of the first
certificate of occupancy for the site. The UDC requires cross-access easements to be
granted to adjoining properties where access to a local street is not available unless
otherwise waived by Council. The abutting property to the north fronts on a state highway,
North Eagle Road, State Highway 55, and does not have access via a local street. That's
the reason the driveway access and easement were required. Without this access the
undeveloped parcel to the north would have no access other than the state highway until
such time as the property to the west, Delano Subdivision, develops, which has granted
a cross-access easement to them through their multi-family development for access via
the future extension of North Centrepoint Way. Because the applicant did not wish to
construct a driveway or provide an access easement in accord with the timing stated in
the development agreement, a temporary certificate of occupancy was issued in order for
the applicant to apply for an amendment to the development agreement. The applicant
proposed to meet with the property owner to the north at the time of development to see
if the -- excuse me -- if it makes sense to both of them to install an access at that time.
An assisted living facility has been approved by the city of Boise to develop on the abutting
property to the north. The approved site plan depicts a driveway access to this site for
cross-access and ingress-egress. If these provisions are removed from the development
agreement and a final C of O is issued, there is no mechanism for the future -- for the
future to require construction of the driveway or granting of an access easement. No
written testimony has been received on this application. Because this is a UDC
requirement staff cannot waive the requirement and, therefore, cannot support the
request. The UDC does allow for a Council waiver to this standard if deemed appropriate
by City Council. Staff will stand for any questions.
Simison: Thank you, Sonya. Council, any questions?
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: Thank you, Sonya. Am I understanding correctly, then, that there was a -- a
deadline in the DA for that driveway to be constructed and it was not done by that time
frame?
Allen: Mr. Mayor, Council Woman Perreault, no. That's the reason for the request.
Perreault: Okay.
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Allen: A final -- let me clarify. A final certificate of occupancy has not been granted. A
temporary C of O has been. So, the requirement was prior to the first C of O.
Perreault: For the Fast Eddy's --
Allen: Yes.
Perreault: -- property that's been there for three years?
Allen: It's been extended several times from what I understand.
Perreault: The -- the -- the certificate of occupancy? Okay.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Question, Sonya. These get a little tricky when you are dealing with split
jurisdictions here and with that -- what was that, assisted living facility, that was approved
by the city of Boise to the property to the north. I was just curious if you know-- was there
a requirement requiring any other accesses or cross-access agreements or anything for
this? It says the approved site plan depicts a driveway access to the site, so I'm assuming
that's the case?
Allen: I'm assuming. I don't know if a cross-access easement was required or received,
but I know that a driveway stub was provided.
Hoaglun: Okay. Thank you.
Allen: I shouldn't say it was provided, but is shown on the approved site plan. They
haven't started building on the site, so it's -- it's hard to -- you know, hard to tell if they are
actually going to go forward and build or not. But so far they have an approved plan.
Simison: Council, any additional questions for staff? Okay. Would the applicant like to
come forward?
Eddy: Mr. Mayor and Council, I'm Steve Eddy at 3775 North Eagle Road, Meridian, Idaho.
I guess this has been a while and that store has been open two -- two -- a little over two
years. The store. The car wash was on a separate parcel and opened earlier than the
store was. My biggest concern with this -- and we have talked about this once before --
is -- and one thing that happened with the -- all the submittal of the plans and everything
for the site this was never shown on any plans. It kind of slid through and that's one
reason. And, then, the property owner that was to the north, which was Wally Hedrick,
and I had promised him, you know, nothing would ever happened there until he did
something with that property, which he moved because of that access point looked right
at his living room and when we bought the property -- part of this property I bought from
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him that was one of our agreements that I had brought up to Sonya and staff that we just
couldn't do that to him as a residential homeowner adjacent to us. But what's concerning
to me now is the site has continued to get busier and we get -- year three is when we kind
of get our peak and behind that building we have a double drive-through, so we have a
drive-through for the Earl of Sandwich and a drive-through for the store and it's gotten --
you know, back in that area it's -- it's crazy. There is just a lot of traffic. All of our deliveries
come in there. The pedestrian path that goes to the Brickyard Apartments, we had it
adjoined and come to the front of the store. Well, nobody comes that way. They walk
right through that driveway, so from a safety standpoint from all of the homes that are in
the Brickyard down with a superhighway going through there it's just -- it's going to be a
safety nightmare. The other thing we got is two more things, is the fuel tanks are right in
that pathway where, you know, there is a flammable type operation there where they are
going to be driving right through and, then, the exit to the car wash right now with the
Brickyard development, which is severely underparked. At night they park along that
street on both sides, all the way around to Ustick and I think it's -- you know, with what's
went on with a lot of the apartments there is more than one family living in an apartment
and many times they backup almost all the way to my car wash now and those cars are
being pushed out with a conveyor and if that property to the north doesn't go with an
assisted living, which we don't know where it's going, we can't get to talk to anybody or
know anything that's going on and I just worry that property gets developed as
apartments, which seems to be the going thing in the valley, and we have another
apartment complex they are underparked and all that traffic, with where the car wash
exits, you know -- well, those cars that are in the car wash, I can't have cars hitting each
other because it's backed up to there and it backs up almost to there today in the morning
time and the evening time when all those residents are back in those apartments. That
street is narrow. Centrepoint is very narrow and tight and when Hobby Lobby gets busy
it's a nightmare right in there already. So, my biggest reason is just a safety concern and
not knowing what's going to the north. We hear their-- their application expires in March,
but we have no idea for sure what's going to go there. And I -- we set this building up for
the deliveries out back there, so -- and I brought that up before. With the delivery trucks
and the drive-throughs and having two driver-throughs back there, I watched people again
today, theyjust take out of the drive and take a left and just head out and that's right where
that connection is supposed to be. There is no way to put a stop sign or anything there
that would stop those people from pulling right out and, you know, we are creating a
superhighway kind of through my properties as a shortcut. Now, the application I did see
on the retirement center, assisted living, it did have an access off of Eagle Road. It wasn't
just through me that they showed on their application. So, I'm assuming that would be a
low impact use and they would be adequately served with that. Again, you know, Centre
Pointe was supposed to go through to Wainwright, which I think would help this. That got
stopped. I don't think I'm against, you know, worst case -- I would like to see it removed,
but worst case I think do a pedestrian with the fire department barricades like we did for
the Brickyard, so it's more pedestrian friendly, but not vehicular. I just think it's an accident
-- it's already an accident waiting to happen there. As we get busier it's going to be worse.
I guess what I was going to say is that Centrepoint where it went down to Dashwood
Street that was supposed to go through, that got stopped with just the emergency
barricades down there and I think that's the best case here when -- especially when we
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don't know what the use will be and since Meridian isn't controlling that site at this time
we have no idea what Boise will approve there and that's -- that's -- that's my concern is
just the safety and what will go there. So, I think I would first like to ask that it be removed.
Second, I think I would be willing to do the pedestrian access with the bollards and, then,
determine if we have to, you know, bond that or whatever we have to do to satisfy -- you
know, I would complete what I would say I would do. I think this is our eighth store I have
built in Meridian and I think I have tried everyone we have built, even though I have sold
them, to do it right and do it first class and tried to be a good resident to the city. That's -
- that's all I have, other than questions.
Simison: Thank you. Council, any questions?
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: Thank you. Mr. Eddy, I'm trying to understand the timing of all this. So, when
-- were you aware that this was a requirement of the DA when you did your site plan
design? Why would there be so many impediments to this if this area was intended to be
kept open for an expansion to the north?
Eddy: It was in the DA and when we were going through everything we weren't really
thinking what would get done and how things will change over time and the original plans
were submitted to the City of Meridian. This was not shown on any plans. Not -- not by
choice, it just was missed by my engineer. It was missed by my folks that I hired to do
the plans on the site. So, all the drawings that were approved by Meridian per my permit
this is not showing on one set of plans. It was forgotten. It wasn't like left off intentionally.
So, it didn't get constructed and, then, as I said before, the gentleman that lived in the
property here to the north I had promised him when we had bought --where the store sits
I had bought that property from him, that we would put that six foot fence up and keep
him somewhat private, because at that time he told me he was going to live there for a
long time and he just moved in the last few months. He has been there for that whole
time and that was just an agreement that I had made to him that I felt I needed to honor
to him with the fence, so --
Perreault: Mr. Mayor, may I ask a follow-up question?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: Thank you. So, what's the distance from the north property boundary? How
many feet was that extension supposed to go? I'm assuming that -- that your -- that the
concrete showing in this photograph goes all the way up to your north property boundary
and that there was going to be constructed a driveway for a short distance from your
property to those?
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Eddy: No. All that was supposed to be done, by the way I read the development
agreement, was there is about a six foot landscape strip there on the other side of the
concrete --
Perreault: A what?
Eddy: There is a curb and grass and trees there currently. That would be -- all I would
be responsible for, I believe, as far as the development agreement is to take that curb
out, that grass out, and just concrete or pave to my property line. It would be whatever
they do to tie into me.
Perreault: Okay.
Eddy: And like I said, I'm just really concerned with what land values have done, that that
will get changed from an assisted living to an apartment complex that's three or four
stories high and we have a superhighway through what's already a really busy area that
will be a nightmare. I think if the property stays a retirement -- and that's something else
I guess I would ask. If it stays a retirement and gets developed retirement, I don't have a
problem with the access.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Thank you. I guess just to be really clear about my concern, right, and I think
it's laid out pretty well in the staff report, there is the potential that if we don't make sure
this access happens in the future there could be a parcel to the north that's orphaned off,
that if they don't get that access off of, you know, the adjoining road, then, it could be
isolated and we really believe that connected communities are healthier communities. I
would hope that if there is an apartment project to the north that the city of Boise would
consider making sure there is adequate parking there. You know, what could we --
because our -- you know, you are a good partner. Our kind of discussion point with you
is issuing a CO; right? I mean what are -- have you guys had a discussion with staff?
Like is there a solution where you could escrow an amount to build this or -- what are you
sort of thinking? You mentioned bonding. I guess I would like to understand that. But
part of my concern is, you know, you definitely made a promise to the property owner and
I understand that, but the city is not a party to that and we can't really solve that for you.
I'm just concerned that if we don't have this access we are not going to get it and we are
going to have a piece of property that's isolated that shouldn't be where there should be
connectivity.
Eddy: Well, I think that -- that piece of property was going to be in Meridian at one time.
It's changed with Boise now. Again, if that got developed to a three or four story high --
four story high apartments we could not handle that traffic. It would be a deathtrap for
consumers and residents of the Brickyard and, then, the drive-throughs that I have, there
is -- there is no way we could accommodate that. Like I said, the plan that Sonya had
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and we saw that they did submit to the city -- well, to you guys first and the city of Boise,
it showed access on Eagle Road into that complex.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Yeah. But I guess just to follow up, I mean from my review I didn't see that that
access is a legal right that will be granted. Like so -- if you are aware of something that
indicates that they will receive that access or that access has been definitively approved,
yeah, that's good information.
Eddy: I don't have -- I don't have access to that today, because we don't know what's
going to happen. Like Sonya had said and we have seen, their -- their approval expires
in March, so we don't know what will happen with that parcel and that's what concerns
me is that and, then, like I said, it's hard to take that size of a piece of property, what we
did develop in Meridian, and try to get it to flow correctly and right without having some
heavy access user to the north going through my property and, again, it depends upon
the user and that's what concerns me is we -- I would love to have the apartment traffic,
but it would not be safe through this site and, then, the car wash that I have built there,
the way the conveyor pushes cars out, if that was a massive apartment complex I would
have a nightmare of cars running into each other automatically that I have really no control
over, if that kind of traffic to get to that access point to the south of me to try to get out
and, like I said, right now the issue is -- and you guys can go by there anytime, morning
or night, that street is lined with cars on both sides. It is really dangerous today to even
drive down the street when those residents are home, which I know we can't do anything
about that now, but it -- you know, it's what we are dealing with now.
Strader: I'm good for now.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: And so I take it from your comments you don't think having an access point to
a road -- and let's say it's similar to what you see in the picture here -- would be a relief,
another point that customers can exit quickly, as opposed to going back to the -- to the
south of your property. It's -- there is nowhere to go. If there was -- let's say it's assisted
living and that -- that property there they are able to access that point, then, turn right and
go to Eagle Road and turn right again, that gets them onto the -- without having to go
from, you know, the upper store all the way down through where the car wash is and back
to that area, I was just trying to look at it differently to see if that was --
Eddy: If you think about that, the problem with that is if you think about the drive through
and the drive throughs behind that building both face west. Those people -- I watched
him today. They get done doing their stuff, they just head out and they take a left, because
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there is -- there is nothing to worry from the right. So, if cars were coming through there
and trying to get through both ways, it would -- I mean I would have my own Eagle Road
internally, you know. And that's what's -- what's hard. I mean the proposed plan they
had, their access point was -- they had buildings up pretty close to the property line and
you kind of access through. It wasn't really something they needed, if they had granted
access off of Eagle Road, which they showed and I think they would get personally, but
you know, that's my thought. They didn't really need that access for me to satisfy the
assisted living that they were proposing building in any way.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: A question -- first a comment. Yeah. And, typically, cross-access easements
-- I'm more familiar with -- they do look more like roads. They are straight. They allow
access to different entities, businesses, and whatnot to each side, as opposed to on the
whole parcel, but yet, you know, we do have some that continue on, but usually it's a
straight line and more street-like, as opposed to parking lot driveway types of areas. I
would like to know more about the -- your storage, your fuel tanks. Where that red arrow
is, can you just kind of give me a description? They are underground, obviously, but
don't know if you can make that bigger. I doubt it, but -- yeah. It's a skating mouse. It
goes --
Eddy: It's right here.
Hoaglun: Okay.
Eddy: And what's tough here, too, is almost all of my traffic is southbound traffic.
Hoaglun: And, Steve, could you pull that microphone a little bit closer to you. Yeah.
Thank you.
Eddy: Almost all of my traffic is southbound traffic, so they -- most of my traffic under that
fuel canopy face west and they exit this way out or they make this loop and come back if
they want to go to Eagle Road and take a right here. But the fuel tanks are sitting right
here. That's --
Hoaglun: That's the next one coming up.
Eddy: Anyway, the fuel tanks are sitting right here and, then, the other thing we have for
the future -- right here is a massive transformer for electric cars that we are not utilizing
today and this whole line right here was set for electric vehicle charging station of the
future, which looks like it's coming quicker than we thought. So, this has a -- you know,
a hundred thousand dollar infrastructure of being able to charge electric cars that's super
fast already underground and to this site that we are not utilizing today. Again, that all
lines up right here right in that driveway that we are talking about, letting possibly become
a massive highway and to the north after the -- the Hedrick parcel -- or the -- you know,
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the Hedrick parcel is not assistant living, it's -- there is one more parcel, then, it's office
buildings all the way to Wainwright. There is no way through to the north that I know of
that could possibly line up with mine without tearing down fairly new office buildings from
the Yellowstone log home to Wainwright. All those new office buildings. And, then, to the
left that access that was going to go to Centrepoint to the north to get to Wainwright has
now been blocked off and not there anymore.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Eddy: Which when I built here I was told that was going to go through Wainwright and
have -- our customers have the ability to use this and they can go to Wainwright to get
out, which would have been better for me at that light. So, that's a change that we didn't
plan for.
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: Just to clarify, that access to Wainwright has not been blocked, it's just not
going to go through until the property just to the south of Wainwright is developed. So, it
still can go through at some point, there has just not been a time determined. Whenever
that property owner decides they want to develop that property between -- between the
application for apartments that was approved earlier this year or last year and Wainwright.
Yeah, Dashwood has been blocked off, but the Centrepoint will go through to Wainwright
once the property just to the south of Wainwright is developed. So, that will happen at
some point. Just wanted to clear that -- clarify that for you. My inclination is -- is -- I'm
sorry that -- that all -- that your property has been developed and this wasn't taken into
consideration on your part and I really feel strongly that we should have that cross-access.
However, I am not opposed to getting more information about what's going to happen to
the north. If it's possible to do that prior to March when -- when this becomes a significant
issue. I -- I'm happy to consider continuing this if you believe that you can get enough
information to show that that access is not necessary to our satisfaction. But at this time
I can say I'm not inclined to grant the request. And it looks like Councilman Bernt is
talking. I don't know if there is something that he is trying to share. So, do you believe
that that is feasible?
Eddy: Well, first of all, I went and drove back on that piece that goes through to
Wainwright today and you know the roads are all in and they did not leave access. They
have a really narrow pathway for like a fire truck to fit through, like just the width of one
vehicle to sneak through that and the roads back in there are all completed and done for
development. So, I don't see how they would hook Centrepoint to that now. I mean there
will be dwellings in the way by looking at the roads that are paved and utilities are all in
today. I don't know how I could go to Boise and get Boise or ACHD or I guess that would
be ITD to say no. I -- just from my years of development I think ITD, if a nursing home
facility was built there, they would allow access. This is going to be a right-in, right-out
only -- there is already a median there -- that they would allow access to that parcel. I
don't think they can legally not grant somebody access for that kind of -- that size of a
development personally.
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Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: Did I understand that you said there is an application already that's been
submitted to the city of Boise?
Eddy: The application that we saw and I think Sonya saw showed an access on Eagle
Road on their application, yes.
Perreault: And did you gather anymore information from them on when they are going to
have their hearing and make consideration?
Eddy: I think it was approved. It expires in March. It was approved a year and a half ago
with access -- it shows off of Eagle Road into their development. That's what you saw,
too; right?
Allen: Can't remember -- excuse me, Mr. Mayor. Would you like me to respond?
Simison: Yes, please.
Allen: There is -- I believe that a copy of that is in our public record on this application
file. I was just going to look it up real quick. I don't remember offhand. I assume that
there was an access. I don't believe Mr. Eddy's property was the only access. I know it
did have a stub to his property, but let me look for that real quick.
Eddy: If you look at that application they had a building jammed almost up right against
that access point of mine to theirs. It was a really narrow driveway with the building
straight ahead. But it definitely had Eagle Road -- their access was off of Eagle Road into
the development. Sorry, I should have brought that with me. I didn't think that was
material.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: Can you guys hear me okay?
Simison: Yes.
Bernt: Perfect. So, thank you, Mr. Eddy, for being with us this evening and thanks for the
presentation. I -- you know, normally the path -- obviously conductivity is extremely
important, especially in these types of development. Very familiar with this section of our
city and it's -- it's -- I have always thought that the parking situation over there along that
road south of Mr. Eddy's property going west to where the Brickyard road is behind Kohl's
and Hobby Lobby, there is always cars there in the morning time and in the evening, so
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that was one of the reasons why I didn't support the Delano project that we heard last
year. It takes a high bar in my opinion for us to -- to issue some type of variance or -- like
Mr. Eddy is asking for -- or permission from Council to issue what he's asking us to do. I
take it extremely seriously, as does every single member of our Council. In this situation
I agree with what Mr. Hoaglun said earlier with regard to the -- the -- Wainwright that goes
from the road that is north of Mr. Eddy's property to the southern road that's south of Mr.
Eddy's property. If it was one straight road where you are not dealing with drive-throughs
with Mr. Eddy's property and the other problems that he's mentioned. The fact that he
originally -- when we heard this project years ago I think this was mentioned as a concern
as well. I remember specifically making a pathway or something -- we are talking about
-- where we spoke about issues with -- with -- with public safety. In this regard I just don't
see a way -- and I agree with Mr. Eddy with regard to allowing pedestrian access and
bicycles and -- and that type of access, but I don't see a way in which you can have a car
-- full of cars having access from that northern roadway to the southern roadway in a way
that's safe. I completely agree. You're going to have to drive residents to a section of the
property where folks are getting gas. I have seen kiddos, you know, buy their-- you know,
that are walking, you know, from -- you know, from the area where you get gas over to
the C-store and kiddos, you know, going astray. I also know the Eddy family quite well.
They are good people and I know that whatever that is to the north, if it makes sense for
-- I believe that he could potentially in the future maybe grant no access for vehicles. I
doubt that just with the current layout that we are looking at and I understand staff's point
of view of requesting denial. I mean it's code. I mean what they are asking for is -- is not
in our code and I get why staff made the recommendation that they did, but knowing this
property and how its laid out, it would be very difficult for cars to flow freely throughout
that property in a safe manner. So, I would be -- from where I stand right now I will be
supportive of Mr. Eddy's request.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: I have a question for Mr. Eddy. So, you have developed this -- you admit there
is a -- a safety issue already on your property with pedestrians. What can you do to make
your property safer for pedestrians?
Eddy: Well, the biggest thing is not have that access point and more cars coming through
there. I think we try really hard to make it safe. I think the -- the one thing is where that
road and where that electrical transformer is and that pinch point where it's this sharp turn
is where we have so much action and even down by our -- where our dumpster corral is
for the car wash, we are going to have to an internal stop sign there today, because the
cars, you know, come out of Hobby Lobby, it's lined up to get out onto Eagle Road, they
come flying through me to get to Eagle Road and get out my access point and where the
dumpster is at the car wash, which it doesn't show on here, we had a real blind spot there
right now that we are going to have to have a stop sign internally. I think everything else
with the mass of the site what we tried to do is make the site flow good for the customers
we have. The Brickyard has added another element where people let their kids come
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over unattended and walk over there and that's what scares me about that highway and
that pinch point is they come across their nonstop all day and evening and they don't pay
attention and we have a pedestrian pathway that we put in, it's marked, it's with pavers
very well, but they just come straight across from that pedestrian way into the Brickyard
and they don't pay attention to that, because it's shorter just to come straight. So, with
my dumpster corral out there right next to where this access point is supposed to be,
there is a -- we have a large dumpster corral to hide all of the crates and the different
things we have. We have recycling out there. You walk and you pretty much have to
walk right in that driveway before you can see if a car was coming through this access
point from where our corral is and this doesn't show it like the other one did, Sonya.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Just want to ask Sonya, is this what the current proposal is for that property to
the north? Is that what we are looking at?
Allen: Mr. Mayor, Councilman Hoaglun, yes.
Eddy: Sorry. That -- sorry, I wasn't even looking at that. That shows how they came off
Eagle Road and what I saw is their drop-off points and so on and it just went straight into
a building. It wasn't really going to help their flow and the way they had their parking all
the way around that building. You could circulate around that and get right back out to
Eagle Road.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Eddy: Thanks for sharing that. That's -- that's what is approved with Boise.
Allen: So, Mr. Mayor, they show the access driveway to the west through the Delano
multi-family project that's planned for that site and, then, as you can see the stub to Mr.
Eddy's property to the south.
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: Thank you. Mr. Eddy, I'm really trying to understand how you got here in the
sense of -- so, you hit -- if I understand what you have been telling us, you had made an
agreement with the property owner to the north that you wouldn't put that in, so that -- that
the public wasn't trying -- excuse me. The public wasn't trying to access his property. So,
you knew that that was going to be a requirement at some point, but yet all these -- all
these business decisions were made to add all of these expensive elements to your
property in a pathway that leads up to where you knew there was supposed to be a
northern access and now coming back and saying, hey, now my property has all these
impediments, I put them there, even though I knew that at some point cars were going to
have to access this part of my property. Is that -- am I -- am I unfairly describing that?
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Because that's what I'm hearing and I -- I -- I want to make sure that I'm not mishearing
you.
Eddy: No. You are fairly saying it. But things change and it's changed with how the drive-
through is setup and what's happened, you know, and, again, if this was a development
that was to happen there, I don't think I have a problem with it, but we can't be guaranteed
what's going to go there and with what's happening with apartments today and highest
and best use, I could see these guys sell this, because they were all rah rah going to go
to apartments and there is -- from a safety standpoint neither one of us would be smart
to approve something with an access cutting through my development with that -- that
kind of traffic. If it's a retirement home, something like this to where it's minimal traffic, it
wouldn't be an issue, but I'm really concerned about what -- since you guys let this
property -- didn't approve it in Meridian and now it's in Boise, we don't -- we don't know
what's going to go there.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor, follow up.
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: Thank you. We do have a lot of conversations about traffic flow hereon almost
every application and one of the things we discuss is that usually folks will take the easiest
route. They are going to go through somewhere that has the least amount of
impediments. So, my anticipation is that you are probably not going to get that many
people cutting through this property to get out of--to get out of that development, because
they just don't want to try to drive through your property and, however, if we decide to
remove that access now we have removed -- now we have taken out a safety element
that should be there in the case of an emergency or in the case of there really needing to
be one, but -- but I truly think that with as many -- as many items that you have in that
driveway to get out of your property, probably not going to drive through your property.
Eddy: I think people take the path of least resistance just like you said, like the kids that
walk over every day, if they think they can get through quicker through me they are going
to come through me and that's what -- that's what concerns me. That's what this is all
about. I just -- we couldn't buy the property and get a square parcel. I got that dogleg in
there and where that dogleg is is where all the fuel tanks are at sitting there and it's not a
straight shot. The other part of that is when you come straight from that development you
are going straight towards the gas pump and, again, if it was a low impact to use it's one
thing, but if it gets into a high impact use, neither one is any good for the community in
my opinion. I mean it would be better for me to have the traffic. So, I'm mostly speaking
from the standpoint of safety and doing the right thing personally. I would be better to
have all the cars come to me and fuel and shop with me, but it's not smart from a safety
standpoint with what's already going on the site to have that kind of traffic and have a
speedway right through my parking lot.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
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Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: I know this is a public hearing, but while we have Mr. Eddy up here I would like
to ask Deputy Chief Bongiorno about fire access and adequacy of the current site, about
this cross-access easement, if there is a need for that. If you could weigh in that way Mr.
Eddy could -- could respond as well.
Bongiorno: Sure. Mr. Mayor and Councilman Hoaglun, looking at -- I was just reading
through Boise's letter and I'm not going to speak for the city of Boise, but knowing the fire
code like I do typically when you have more than a hundred units you are required to have
two separate accesses for that property, unless they are fire sprinklered. I believe it's --
you can go up to 200 then. So, my only question would be whether that access to Mr.
Eddy's property would be considered their secondary access to the property, because the
other two on the east side just go to residences. So, that would be my only question
about the -- the accesses. Are they considering that secondary access and if they are I
-- I would be agreeable to building the full access and putting up bollards, like Mr. Eddy
said, and allowing, you know, classical bollards or whatever to allow foot traffic and bicycle
traffic through there and, then, if it needs to be used as a secondary access for the fire
department, then, we can remove the bollards, knock them over, whatever type of bollards
that Boise would be agreeable to, along with me. So, that's my only question is -- is I feel
it should be -- someone should check with Boise to see if the one access is enough for
what they are looking for or if they needed that secondary access because of the fire
code.
Eddy: Mr. Mayor and Council, I -- that would cost me more money to do that and from a
safety standpoint I think I would be agreeable to pay to do that and put the bollards in. I
think that size of assisted living it would have to be fire sprinkled, like the fire chief said,
but I wouldn't be against doing that, then, that would allow pedestrian traffic from that site
into my parcel or through to Hobby Lobby to my sidewalks that are safe that we do have
and into my facility from that -- that and it covers the fire issue for myself and that
development.
Simison: Council, any additional questions for the applicant? Okay. Thank you, Mr.
Eddy.
Eddy: Thank you, guys.
Simison: This is a public hearing. Did we have anyone signed up to provide testimony
on this item?
Weatherly: Mr. Mayor, we did not.
Simison: Okay. If there is anybody in the audience that would like to provide testimony,
please, come forward at this time and state your name and address and be recognized
for three minutes and if there is anybody online use the raise your hand feature so we
can also bring you in for testimony.
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Martin: David Martin. 23633 FreezeOut Road, Caldwell, Idaho. 83607. And I just happen
to work for Stellar Senior Living, who owns the property to the north. So, I don't know that
I need to make any comments to you guys. I welcome to answer any questions. I -- I
would argue, though, that we at least have that emergency access. Right now it's slated
for about 150 living units. It is sprinkled. The access to the west is still on the map -- is
going to be -- it's going to be emergency access only. On the -- on the west side -- on the
north side that goes to a private residence. That's that parcel that is blocking the
Centrepoint Way access onto Wainwright. And the access on the west to the south, that
goes directly into the Delano Subdivision, which we don't want--we don't want their traffic
coming through an assisted living. It's like Mr. Eddy mentioned, the safety hazards for all
of our seniors and everything else. So, we would love to have this access stay open just
for emergency access at least. But, again, as Mr. Eddy implied, they come right now. It's
crazy. Building costs are crazy. We intend to develop this into assisted living. If not,
then, we can look at our options. But we don't -- we don't have any clear exact direction
we are going to do that just yet. Right now we are approved for assisted living. That's
what we do. That's our wheelhouse and it's a great spot for that. We do have access on
Eagle Road. It's right-in, right-out and we barely got that approved with the traffic study,
because it's Eagle Road and Eagle Road is crazy, so -- and it's just because assisted
livings have very low traffic flow. The trip count was low enough they were able to
approve. We were able to get a waiver I believe, too, because the access there is so
close to Fast Eddy's and to Wainwright, it was tough with the deceleration lanes and
everything else, so that's kind of a tenuous access. It was approved for the assisted
living. Something with more units may -- that access may go away, which would, then,
require that there would be an access to the south through Fast Eddy's.
Simison: Thank you. Councilman, any questions?
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Yeah. I guess a question for staff, but please don't go. So --just so I understand.
So, if the ACHD approval of the access for Eagle Road runs with -- is associated with a
property type and, then, we move forward on an emergency access with bollards this
evening, then, what would really -- I mean what would happen with all these agencies
and Boise if we -- if we approve that, he has no access, can his -- does he have to go for
re-approval through the city of Boise if he changes the use or how does that work?
Allen: Mr. Mayor, Council Woman Strader, I'm trying to get all your questions. I'm sorry,
I'm a bit brain dead tonight, so cut me a little slack. But -- so, it's ITD that's the road
authority for access on Eagle. The city of Boise is the one that approved their site plan.
I'm not sure if they -- they -- I'm not sure if they required a cross-access easement to be
provided from the assisted living facility to Mr. Eddy's property. It looks like they --
assuming they required the access driveway. Not sure if they would have if we hadn't
required it to be a stub on Mr. Eddy's property to their property. I'm not sure of their code
requirements. Did I answer all your questions?
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Strader: Yes. Mr. Mayor, one more?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Sonya, have you ever seen a situation where we could just say Mr. Eddy needs
to put, you know, X amount of money into an account for this purpose and if in the future
he doesn't, we could take that money and, then, have a right to ensure that some kind of
access is installed to our satisfaction? Have we ever done something like that to try to
solve a problem like this?
Allen: Mr. Mayor, Council Woman Strader, I don't believe we can do that. The only -- and
only time we can take money is when we are holding up occupancy for a determinant
time. From what I understand that's not something we have done in the past nor want to.
ACHD sometimes does. It doesn't apply in this situation, but sometimes does road trusts
that can accomplish those kind of things, but not in this case. And I -- and I failed to
answer one of your other questions. I remembered afterwards. If the land use changes
on this site, then, that would be required to go back through the city of Boise for a new
approval.
Strader: Mr. Mayor, one more.
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Okay. So, if -- if this evening we ended up approving this as an emergency
access with bollards, which I'm not sure I'm there yet, frankly, I believe this was within Mr.
Eddy's control and he did a little bit of do something and asked for forgiveness later. I'm
not like loving that. But if we did that, then, would you be able to communicate with your
counterparts in the city of Boise to like let them know the outcome here, so they can
calibrate their future decisions accordingly? Or how does that communication work back
and forth?
Allen: Mr. Mayor, Council Woman Strader, I can certainly convey that to them. However,
they have -- they have approved this site development plan. So, I -- I'm not sure what
they would do with that information, to be honest with you.
Strader: Fair enough. Thanks.
Simison: Counsel, any additional questions? Okay. Thank you. Is there anybody else
that would like to provide testimony on this item at this time, online or in the room? Okay.
Then would the applicant like to come forward for any final comments?
Eddy: Mr. Mayor and Council, I guess all I can say is I have my track record in Meridian.
I built my first store in '91. I don't do things that way. I would never do that. I can promise
you that. This was a little bit of an oversight by my engineer that didn't show it. It was
never done intentionally. You build a site, you do what I did there, and, then, you see the
traffic and you see what happens and I can sit and look at you straight up -- it's just a
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safety concern for me, because I do care about the community. I care about Meridian
and I'm only asking for a request. It's the right thing to do and that's all.
Simison: Thank you.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Thank you. Yeah. I appreciate that. I guess my request back to you would be,
you know, things change, I'm not sure what the outcome is going to be, but I would love
to have someone who is a community partner, who is doing the right thing, love to see
you do anything you can do on your site to try to fix some of the pedestrian safety
concerns that you have identified. That would also be the right thing to do. So, I will trust
that you will do that.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: I wouldn't mind if we had a discussion without closing the public hearing. There
might be some questions that might come up or response that we might need. So, if
that's okay with the rest of the Council Members to kind of have that discussion as we
kick this around.
Bernt: Okay by me, Mayor.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: You know, our Uniform -- Uniform Development Code, the requirement for, you
know, a cross-access agreement, easements, and everything is there for a reason and
it's a very good one and -- and so when you think through this and take this request, you
know, and look at it, it's not something we do lightly. The concern that I have with grant
-- with -- with not granting the request to -- and do something other than having a wide
open easement for access, is we --we have got a bad situation there with the apartments,
the traffic, the parking and we can't undo that and by granting it it's not going to make it
better. Looking at the site and why I wanted to find out exactly where the gas tanks are,
now here -- you know, there is -- there is the trash enclosures and he is doing things to
make sure that's not visible to folks. It just changes a lot of things that just makes to me
the situation worse and, like I said, our code -- it's a good thing to have that access
easement, but in this one particular situation I think 99 percent of the time I would probably
deny, but I think he meets the high bar of saying this isn't going to work at this particular
location. I mean we can get into the reasons why we should have, could have, would
have, but it is what it is and I just don't see that improving with -- with anything, even if it
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goes to something else. I do agree, I think emergency access with bollards is something
that is definitely needed for -- for those safety and for pedestrian access and I think even
if you have assisted living you are going to have workers over there that makes it a lot
easier for them to access the conveniences that his business offers that they can utilize.
So, I think even though it's, again, money out of his pocket, it will certainly come back to
him in the long run. But that's just where I am here tonight on -- on this particular issue.
I just -- I just don't see it making it -- that situation better and it is a safety issue. It's -- it's
not like most of the easements that we -- we have put in that are -- that are typical and
for whatever reason it's -- that's what we are dealing with and that's -- that's where I am.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Yeah. I think -- I think I'm in the same boat. I would like to see the emergency
access with the bollards and I am hoping that does improve the situation. It should be s
high bar to --to make these exceptions. Unfortunately, it's just kind of a bit of a conundrum
with the Brickyard and I don't think that this will -- providing full access is just going to
make it worse, but that being said, I really hope that the assisted living moves forward.
think it could get tough if it -- if it becomes a different use. This area is going to be really
problematic. But that's not within our purview tonight, so that's where I'm at with the
emergency access with bollards and I appreciate Mr. Eddy's commitment to improve the
pedestrian safety in whatever way he can.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: So, there is four of us here this evening and that's what makes a quorum. I'm
not yet at the place where I am comfortable saying that we waive this requirement, so --
however, for the applicant's sake I -- you know, I don't -- I don't want to cause him undue
difficulty with us in any way. However, at the same time to be really candid Mr. Eddy has
developed multiple properties in our area and he knows how these work and I'm -- I'm
sorry for the oversight, I am very concerned about cutting off access to that. So, I'm going
to -- I'm going to put that out there and if there is anything else I suppose that could be
said or discussed or presented that might help me get over the hump to agree with the
emergency only access, I -- my ears are open.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: I think this evenings dialogue has been crystal clear. I don't think that there is
anything more that can be added or anything that can be subtracted from this
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conversation at the end of the day. This is no secret. I'm not a big fan of this area of our
city. I think that with all of -- with Brickyard and with Delano, this is -- I mean I have -- I
have always had serious concerns with this and -- and I completely agree with -- with
Councilman Hoaglun's assessment of the situation. To -- to approve what Mr. Eddy is
asking for is an extremely high bar. I mean especially in the commercial area where we
rely on connectivity. I think it's extremely important. You all know why. In this case it just,
honestly, in my opinion, it doesn't make sense and we are making a problem a bad -- I'm
going to say a bad problem, but a problem that I don't really like. I think by, you know,
opening up this -- this -- this -- this area for -- you know, for -- for traffic use, auto use,
think would make the problem even worse. So, I'm in favor of the development
modification that Mr. Eddy is asking for and if there isn't any further discussion, I -- I would
be in favor of closing the public hearing and voting on this issue.
Simison: Was that a motion?
Bernt: Oh, more than welcome to make a motion, Mr. Mayor. I move that we close the
public hearing.
Hoaglun: Second the motion.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. Is there any
discussion? If not, all in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed? The ayes have it.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. TWO ABSENT.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor? Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: I -- before I make a motion, included in my motion I'm going to include an
emergency access with bollards that Mr. Eddy has agreed to. Is there anything else that
I have missed that I need to add to my motion?
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor and for legal counsel, is there a time frame that we should be putting
on this or, Sonya, staff, is there a time frame? I know those bollards would have to be
acceptable to the fire department, but as far as when this would be completed by? I mean
if we don't have a date certain it could be five years from now, but --
Nary: So, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, as Sonya stated earlier, I mean this is
holding the C of O; right? He has a temporary C of O now. If you want to require a date
-- I don't know, Sonya, if there is a way to track a specific date, like six months or whatever
the time period will be. I have no idea how long it would take to construct the emergency
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access there. So, that's a question I have for Planning, because she would be
responsible for verifying it was completed by the time period.
Bernt: I can't -- I can't hear. Excuse me, Mr. Mayor. I apologize to interrupt. I can't hear
Mr. Nary very well.
Nary: Apologize, Council Member Bernt. What I said was that if we put a specific date
-- because, really, right now the burden is on Mr. Eddy if he wants a final C of O to
construct this right. Now it -- it can be bonded for, but if you want to put a specific date it
really is incumbent on Planning on verifying that it's completed by a certain date. So, I
don't know they have a method to do that in the Accella system and that's the only thing
I was asking of Planning.
Bernt: Okay. Got it. Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
Bongiorno: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Deputy Chief.
Bongiorno: I was just going to say I -- I have been typing an e-mail in anticipation as we
have been -- as you have been talking. So, as soon as the motion is made and approved
I will send the e-mail to Mr. Eddy and Sonya.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Isn't the point of leverage that the city has for -- sorry, it's kind of a crude term,
but the issuance of the COs -- I think probably the motion should reflect that this would
take place before issuance of the final CO.
Simison: That would seem to be why we are here.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: So, it sounds like there has been several requests for an extension and
temporary certificates approved. Is this the last that will be permitted?
Allen: So, Mr. Mayor --
Perreault: And what have been the -- can you share with us the reasons for the past
approvals?
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Allen: Mr. Mayor, Council Woman Perreault, Council, this has been the reason for the
previous extensions on the temporary C of O there. They currently don't have a C of O.
It's expired. I'm not sure why the building department didn't renew it. I know they were
waiting to issue a final C of O until this issue was resolved one way or the other. But from
what I understand their temporary C of O is no longer current. So, something needs to
be done. The temporary C of O needs to be extended or if this requirement is waived,
then, the C of O will be issued.
Simison: It sounds like we are going to need a temporary C of O regardless, because
they shouldn't be in there if they don't have a temporary even. So, that's a separate issue
that needs to be addressed. We can take care of. But one of my initial questions was
can you have a temporary C of O forever? So, again, kind of going back to the question
like when does the temporary C of O cease to be an option or an opportunity, under what
ordinance, code, et cetera? Have we hit that point?
Nary: So, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, from -- from my understanding with the
building department, I mean they will give specific deadlines and dates to complete these
and they are looking for milestones of some sort. So, I don't know whether or not, you
know, this winter I don't know whether 90 days would be reasonable. Certainly six months
would be reasonable, in my opinion, to be able to complete the work for that. After that,
again, if no further C of Os are directed by -- by this amendment that no more C of Os
could be granted -- temporary C of Os could be granted after six months, it would require
Mr. Eddy to come back within less than six months to say I cannot complete it because
of X, whatever that X may be, and you have to hear it again and decide. So, that's --
that's probably your best bet to get it completed within a reasonable period of time,
because he could not -- if -- again, if his C of O gets revoked that's a whole different
problem that he certainly doesn't want to have and neither does the city. So, frankly, that's
probably your best way to do it, to get some finality to this without it being bonded and,
then, having to revoke bonding. Mr. Eddy doesn't want that either and neither does the
city. So, that probably is the easiest way to move this along, get some finality, get some
eyes on it and, again, put some direction both on Mr. Eddy as the owner and the City with
him in conjunction to get this done. That would be the best in my opinion.
Simison: So, I'm sorry, Mr. Nary. I am so confused. You said that they weren't eligible
for the temporary C of O, but don't they need to have a temporary C of O?
Nary: No. They -- I mean right now from what it sounds like they have expired. So,
mean --
Simison: I guess my question is can you have a business that's in a temporary C of O for
20 years, if the building department continues to issue them?
Nary: In theory under our code it's not specific as the building official's call. Our past
practice has been we don't allow that indefinitely. So, they do want finality to it.
Simison: Understood. But it's not illegal.
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Nary: It is not illegal.
Simison: Okay.
Nary: The building officials can allow it.
Simison: That's all I wanted to have verification -- okay.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: If the Council waiver doesn't pass what happens with the development
agreement modification? How does that affect the C of O? Is the applicant permitted to
submit another development agreement modification if they -- if they would have an
alternative solution to the problem? Can you help me kind of understand how all that
would tie in?
Allen: Mr. Mayor, Council Woman Perreault, if -- if Council denies the proposed
development agreement modification then the current development agreement provision
stands. It would be up to the building official at that point whether or not they choose to
extend that TCO or not. If they don't -- I mean the applicant needs to construct the
driveway and provide a cross-access easement. If they still don't wish to and want to
provide something alternative to that, as you -- as you mentioned, then, certainly they
could submit a new application. From staff's point of view --
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Allen: -- preferably that we get this handled now and not be back here again in another
-- you know. So, I don't know if there is any alternative, though, that the applicant would
like to pursue, if it would -- you want to continue this or not? I don't necessarily think it
would, but --
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: I was just going to say --
Allen: I think a decision just needs to be made, quite frankly, on whether or not a cross-
access -- the provision should be waived or not.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor-- and I think Sonya is correct. We just needed to deal with the issue
that's before us and it is a request to -- to have a development agreement modification to
not do that and we are going to require, though, an emergency access with bollards that
are acceptable to the fire department. I think a time certain of at least six months -- that's
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one of the things we don't control and Mr. Eddy won't control is availability of construction
folks and materials and all those things that we know that's going on in the world right
now, but if that is an issue he can come back and say that wasn't reasonable, here is the
situation I'm dealing with, and we deal with it then. But I think six months and, then, see
where we land after that and, then, we just move forward.
Simison: That was close to a motion.
Hoaglun: Well, I thought Mr. Bernt was going to make that motion.
Bernt: Go for it, Brad. Go for it. Go for it.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: After considering all staff and applicant testimony -- and public testimony, I
move to approve File No. H-2021-0068, the development agreement modification as
presented in the staff report for the hearing date of November 30th, 2021, with the
condition that an emergency access only is created with bollards that are acceptable to
the fire department for their access purposes.
Bernt: Second.
Hoaglun: And -- and that the work be completed, if possible, within six months.
Bernt: I will second again, Mr. Mayor.
Simison: I have a motion and a second. Is there discussion on the motion?
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Just want to make sure we are formulating it in a way that it technically works.
So, the staff report recommended denial. So, I just want to make sure we are approving
the waiver and not the staff report, because I think that -- and maybe I'm just -- maybe I'm
being overly persnickety. I apologize. Mr. Nary will set me straight.
Nary: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, no problem, Council Member Strader. So,
what's going to come back to you is findings to that effect is what your motion is and, then,
we will prepare an amendment to the development agreement that Mr. Eddy will sign and,
then, he will, then, work with the building department on the temporary C of O to get it
done and, again, obviously, if he can get it done sooner than six months the better for
him, better for the city, but that should cover the -- the necessity, as Council Member
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Hoaglun stated, but, no, I think we have it covered that we will be able to bring back the
appropriate findings and amendment.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: I might answer Council Woman Strader. So, to cut through the legalese, the
applicant requested the modification to the development agreement, so that's what we
are approving tonight with -- with our additions to it, so -- yeah.
Simison: Is there further discussion?
Bernt: Nope.
Simison: Clerk will call the roll.
Roll call: Borton, absent; Cavener, absent; Bernt, yea; Perreault, nay; Hoaglun, yea;
Strader, yea.
Simison: Three ayes. One no. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE NAY. TWO ABSENT.
Simison: Council, do we need to take a quick break? Okay. We are going to take a ten
minute break and we will pick back up at 8.15.
(Recess: 8:06 p.m. to 8:16 p.m.)
17. Public Hearing Continued from November 23, 2021 for Regency at
River Valley Phase 3 (H-2021-0059) by Bach Homes, Located at 3270
and 3280 E. River Valley St. and 2480 N. Eagle Rd.
A. Request: Modification to the existing Development Agreements
(Inst.#113005608 — SGI and Inst. #2020-062947 — Bach Storage)
to remove the property from the existing agreements and create
one new agreement for the development of a 134-unit multi-family
project.
Simison: All right. Then we will go ahead and come back from recess and go into our
next item, which is a public hearing continued from November 23rd, 2021, for Regency
at River Valley, Phase 3, H-2021-0059. We will have staff comments for this public
hearing.
Allen: Mr. Mayor, I'm having technical difficulties here. All righty. Thank you. Mr. Mayor,
Members of the Council. Make sure I'm on the right project here. This project was
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continued from October 19th Council meeting to tonight's meeting in order for the
applicant to have time to address concerns discussed during that meeting pertaining to
traffic generation from the proposed development, impact to West Ada School District,
sustainability of the multi-family development on this property and if the new phase would
meet UDC standards for open space amenities, parking, and et cetera. The applicant is
here tonight to address those topics of discussion for you.
Simison: Thank you. Council, any questions for staff? Ask the applicant to, please, come
forward.
Whallon: Thank you, Mayor, Members of the Meridian City Council. My name is Brandon
Whallon. Physical address is 25 South Ruby Street, Boise, Idaho. 83706. This is a follow
up for the meeting that we had on October 19th. I'm not sure that this is the PowerPoint
that I put together, but we can just talk off the --
Allen: Brandon --
Whallon: No. This is fine.
Allen: No. I have -- I can get it up real quick here. I thought you had one.
Whallon: No. No problem. So, this is a response to the concerns that were raised by
the Council at the October 19th meeting, specifically the traffic that would be generated
from the new phase and the safety of the existing access on River Valley Drive. The
additional student load to the West Ada School District. The existing development
agreement modification and the creation of a new development agreement. Suitability
for a multi-family housing project located on Eagle Road. And if the new -- new phase
could meet the development code requirements, open space, off-street parking,
landscaping, open space and site amenities through the conditional use permit review
process. So, this is the existing main access point to the Regency off of River Valley
Drive and so the first point of discussion is the modification of the development
agreement. This is the property that's just north of the existing mattress store. You can
see the right-in off of River Valley Drive and there was an Aand a B component associated
with the development agreement for this parcel. On the right-hand side you can see a
retail. It would be just a speculative retail building or to the left you can see a smaller
speculative retail building and a restaurant with a drive-through. That was the
development agreement that was approved for the southern most piece of property. The
other development agreement that is in place was for the self storage unit, as you can
see here, on the northern piece of property. Bach Homes has owned these properties for
some time. They did try to market them to various commercial entities. They would go
under contract, but when it came time to lease and/or sell the property the people realized
that there were just limitations and restrictions associated with access that would not
make it functional or profitable for them and so they would not close on the contract and
so Bach, then, re-examined it and said if we aggregate those two parcels and remove the
existing development agreements and come forward with a new development agreement
for phase three of the Regency, they could get 134 living units on that property and so
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that's what our request is tonight. On the left-hand side you can see the E-shape of the
building. That would be five stories in height. On the interior of that you can see areas
where they have allocated for amenities, fire pits, barbecue areas and there will also be,
as was discussed in the last hearing, an access road that goes from north -- from River
Valley Drive northward through our properties to the Great Wall restaurant and, then, the
property to the north of that is going to develop and the approval for the Great Wall
restaurant is a temporary access point to Eagle Road and when either the backage road,
as Caleb called it, develops from River Valley going north or from the property that is north
of the Great Wall, when either of those two properties were developed and that backage
road was created, the temporary access to Eagle Road would, then, be terminated and
so we have had discussions with Caleb and JoAnn Butler was representing the owner of
the Great Wall and the property to the north, we told them that we have seen great utility
in that backage road and that new access point to the north of the Great Wall restaurant
being improved, because as Ms. -- Council Woman Perreault asked at the last hearing, if
there is only a right-in, right-out to this phase it's going to be very difficult to get on and off
the property, but if people can go north on Eagle Road past the Great Wall into the new
development and, then, take a write off of Eagle Road and, then, take a right onto this
backage road, that provides them another opportunity off of Eagle Road to get into this
property. You also have the right-in, right-out directly off of River Valley and, then, we are
also planning to remove three parking spaces between phase one of the Regency, so that
direct vehicular access can go from phase three to phase one. So, it really diversifies the
number of locations that people can come on and off the property and we have brought
-- we did generate a scope -- a traffic study with ITD and it was submitted and approved
by ITD and we have the traffic engineer here tonight if you would like to ask him any
specific questions with regards to traffic on the property. This slide just shows the
amenities that will be provided on the site. Firepits. Hot tubs. Kind of an outdoor picnic
area underneath the pergola. We are looking for this -- this development to be for young
professionals and so those are the types of amenities that we are trying to provide on the
property, but we are looking to provide an easement to phase one and phase two. All
amenities that are provided throughout the site, the clubhouse, the pool, the spas, the
gym facilities, will be available to any tenant from phase three as well. So, it will meet all
of the amenity standards standalone, but they can also use all of the existing amenities
provided in phase one or phase two. And this is the backage road that I was referring to.
It will be a direct route from East River Valley Street around -- along the backs of the --
the mattress store where we are proposing phase three of the Regency and the Great
Wall restaurant go across the slough that's being -- I think being underground at this point
in time, that water channel, and, then, there is a proposed access point there to Eagle
Road that we think will be a great access point for phase three of the Regency. This is a
depiction -- another question that was asked how safe and effective is the main access
point to Regency One and so I went and looked at the Idaho Transportation Department's
safety dashboard and they show crash history data going from January of 2016 through
December 31 st of 2020 and there were four documented property incidents at that main
access point. So, that categorizes a fender bender and no physical harm or physical
injury. So, with that we would respectfully request to remove the existing development
agreements associated with the one property that could be retail or retail with a drive-
through restaurant and the other parcel, which was identified and approved for self
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storage, we would like those two development agreements removed and replaced with a
new development agreement for phase three of the Regency at River Valley creating 134
new residential units and with that I would stand for any questions that you may have.
Simison: Thank you. Council, any questions?
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Thank you. Yeah, I have a couple questions. The amenities looked really
interesting. Where would those be located? Are those on the roof of the building? Are
they in a plaza in between the building? Like help me understand that piece.
Whallon: If I could go back -- remember the building is shaped like an E and so there
would be open areas within that building and it was within that area inside of the -- one
more slide and I think we are there. Yeah. On the left-hand side there the --
Strader: Okay.
Whallon: So, the building was kind of wrapped around that outdoor amenity area.
Strader: Like kind of a plaza?
Whallon: Yeah. Like a plaza.
Strader: Got it. And, then, I think you mentioned it's going to be five stories tall. So, I'm
assuming that that's elevatored. Have you worked with the fire department at all in terms
of, you know, now it's like a higher building there should be different requirements?
Whallon: Absolutely. Yes. Mr. Mayor, Council Person Strader, yes, it is -- we will meet
all UBC, IBC standards and this building -- in the past Bach Homes has built many
different buildings and one or two would have an elevator. In this instance one or two
elevators would serve the entire building and so it does provide that service and capacity
and kind of cut costs as well.
Strader: One more, Mr. Mayor.
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: So, I'm assuming it's not stick built then. Are you -- just curious what kind of
construction materials you are using considering the height of the building.
Whallon: Mr. Mayor, Madam -- Council Woman Strader, I'm not sure if it's type four or
type B. The -- because it is five stories that is a threshold where you have to go to a
different building type. They are going through the conditional use permit process. Once
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they have the conditional use permit approved, then, they will generate the construction
drawings, submit for building permit review and the building department will ensure that
we are meeting all of the codes for a five story building.
Strader: Thanks. That's helpful.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor and -- to talk a little bit more about the conditional use process, the
site amenities will also be part of that consideration when you go through and you are
proposing that, you know, have to have cross-access to the other phases, they can use
those amenities, and we have talked before about the site and some of the constraints
you have space wise for amenities and hoping that -- but if-- if that does not come about,
if staff looks at it and says, you know, you need to have, you know, the required amount
of amenities, where do you -- how do you -- how do you move forward with that? Is that
doable or -- or --
Whallon: Sure.
Hoaglun: --just kind of concerned about not being able to meet our code requirements if
that's -- that's what's required for that particular site.
Whallon: Sure. Mr. Mayor, Council Person -- Councilman Hoaglun, as I understand it
through your UBC -- or UDC, Uniform Development Code, the number of amenities
required is based upon the number of units you can provide and so our architects are
looking at how much area they have and can they get one amenity? Can they get two
amenities? Can they get three? They are saying they can get four amenities on the
property, which would allow them to get 134 units. So, they are going through the
conditional use permit process and they have submitted that material to the staff for their
review and so I think that if staff may come to the determination that that doesn't count as
an amenity, you only have three, then, our unit count comes down. So, our unit count --
it's a standalone project. It has to meet the requirements of the Uniform Development
Code or -- yes. So, based upon the number of amenities that they can provide on site
will dictate how many units are able to -- on the property, it stands alone, and we are just
saying, hey, you people in phase three if you would like to use any of the amenities in
phase one or two you are more than welcome to, but unit three -- or phase three will meet
all of the Uniform Development Code requirements through the conditional use permit
process.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor. Thank you for that response. It sounds like you do have a plan, so
thank you.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
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Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: I have several questions, so I would like to ask your permission to go through
them back and forth.
Simison: Have fun.
Perreault: Thank you. My first question is now that you -- now that you know that there
is going to be a road that's going to access further to the north -- north of Great Wall, did
the -- did the owner, developer, applicant -- you and your team make any consideration
of-- of potentially taking this back to commercial use? I just -- I want to really understand
before we forego this high traffic important corner that we -- that you have exhausted all
the options.
Whallon: So, Mr. Mayor, Chairperson Perreault, we have considered it and they still think
that the access that is provided -- I looked at the -- the traffic study. There is 55 trips in
the peak p.m. hour. Less than a car per minute. That's suitable for somebody who is
going to their home, to their residence, they will go through a little bit of a diversion and
go a little bit out of their way. Not going to be a big problem. But somebody who is looking
for commercial uses, who wants to do some shopping, they are going to make their
decision based upon how close they can park to the front door of that business. The path
of least resistance I think we have heard earlier this evening. And so it's just our opinion
that we are still not going to be able to satisfy the access requirements of a commercial
use on that property. They have tried -- they have had -- they have held the property for
three, three and a half years. I know this is the --the backage road going to a new access
point on Eagle Road does change things a little bit, but we have talked internally and we
just don't feel that it's marketable commercially for retail or services.
Perreault: Can you shed some light for us on that concept plan having been put together
in the first place, if there was just not due diligence done or if there is some factors that
have changed since then as to why commercial would have been originally proposed.
The state regulation for right-in, right-out and difficulty getting access to Eagle Road hasn't
changed for quite some time, so -- so, Mr. Mayor, Council Woman Perreault, it was time.
They got those parcels at different times and so they got the first parcel and we are looking
at opportunities and it wasn't big enough for multi-family residential development and so
they started the speculative retail, just a strip and, then, they thought maybe they could
entice a restaurant user to come onto the property and so they market it that way. Got
the development agreement in place and, then, the other parcel to the north became
available and, again, at that point in time it was --there wasn't--the access wasn't defined
and so they said, hey, it's still not going to function, you know, for -- as a storage unit the
access would have been fine, not generating very many trips, but my discussion with Ms.
Butler was a week ago and -- and she was asking us to have a uniform -- or a unified
request before the City Council for the access to be emergency use only and for there not
to be any cross-connectivity from Eagle Road into phase three of the Regency and we
said that we -- we don't think that it's -- it's going to be very difficult to get on and off the
property without that access -- that right-hand turn off of Eagle Road and so we wouldn't
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-- we decided we were not going to participate in a uniform -- unified request of property
owners asking for that road to be blocked for general use. We think it provides all of the
good reasons why you want connectivity between different uses is present in this location
and we just thought it was -- it was paramount, it was very important for the success of
this, even multi-family residential development, to have that right-hand turn off of Eagle
Road and that's preserved. The Great Wall property loses it, but it moves just a little bit
to the north and, then, they can still -- their customers can -- I think that's changing. It's
going to be an antique store and something else. So, it's not going to be a restaurant, it's
-- it's not going to be a restaurant, but we think it will be a great new neighborhood.
Perreault: When -- what is the timing of the development of that in relationship to what
you are planning? The road.
Whallon: Yeah. Mr. Mayor, Chair Woman Perreault, we think they are ahead of us now.
We thought we were ahead of them, that we would be further along through this process,
but I think that they are looking to develop and have their new store in 2022 -- late 2022
and we don't think that will be even turning around until 2023. So, they are at least a year
ahead of us.
Perreault: Thank you. Can you bring up the slide that shows the traffic flow with the
arrows? So, over on Records Avenue it looks like there is an access to phase one from
that location. Does that loop around and eventually connect to the new backage road?
And is that a way for phase three to get out to Records Avenue without having to use
Eagle Road?
Whallon: Yes.
Perreault: Okay.
Whallon: Mr. Chair, Madam -- or Council --
Perreault: Council Woman.
Whallon: Council Woman Perreault -- yes. And it's maybe tough to see, but if I can get
the -- this drive aisle will be common. People can come around this way, they can come
onto the property here, and this is phase two back here or they can drive in this way and
this is going to be our connection, we are going to take out three parking spaces and this
will be the connection from phase one to phase three. So, people can make a left-hand
turn in and come back this way to get into phase one. They can go a little bit longer to
make a left-hand turn and come back this way. If they are coming westward on East River
Valley Street they can make a right-hand turn in and either one -- any of these three
access points they will be able to get across this connection right here to phase one. Or
phase three. Excuse me.
Perreault: Thank you. As I shared last time, anyone who is making a left is going to head
out to East River Valley Street. That's just--they are not going to go north on the backage
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of the road and try to head out that way and make a U-turn, they are going to use East
River. So, I still anticipate a significant amount of traffic through the first and second
phase. I don't think that that's going to go away. And we talked about, you know, the
traffic -- the traffic study -- first of all, we didn't get a copy of it. We got one little page of it
that was in your letter that really didn't provide enough information. Secondly, I had asked
about information regarding the traffic flow within the development of phase one and
phase two at the last meeting, meaning I wanted to know if there were any concerns with
traffic internally, any reports of accidents. I don't know if your property management team
keeps track of those things or not, if there is cameras, that -- that watch that, but, again, I
have driven through that numerous times. There are sections in there where you cannot
get two cars going side by side. It's -- it's narrow and when people are backing out you
sometimes cannot see and I just -- I think that just phase one and phase two the -- the
drive aisles that go around that are very narrow and I don't -- I just have a lot of concerns
about adding potentially 200 more cars coming in there, if they are already narrower as
they are. So, I was hoping that I would see more information about traffic flow. Any --
any concerns regarding space accidents, anything along those lines, within the existing
development, not just on East River Street. The photograph that you provided of the
entrance to the -- of the main entrance is actually taken from across East River Street. If
you get up closer to the entrance it certainly isn't that big and doesn't look that big and
when you drive around that little loop, you drive around that center piece, it's -- it's not
always, in my opinion, the safest way to -- to be accessing that. So, the way the traffic is
you are supposed to -- if you are off to the right come around the circle and head back in
when you are heading west and so you are going to have individuals that are continuing
to do that that are going to be heading towards phase three.
Whallon: Mr. Mayor, Council Woman Perreault, I think that there is a learning curve, much
like any roundabout, that people the first time they come onto the property they might be
a little bit confused on how it actually operates, but their second, third, fourth time they
show up they understand that they go around the circular landscape area and, then, they
can stay on the right down a drive aisle. I think that -- I think the development meets all
of the drive aisle width requirements. It's not anymore narrow than any other multi-family
housing complex, because that's dictated by the fire department meeting their minimum
-- I believe it's 24 foot wide drive aisle and so I think that it's similar to any other multi-
family housing project in the -- in the city.
Perreault: Thank you. I will ask our -- I will ask Chief Bongiorno if he can comment on
whether that drive aisle is the correct width if you include the additional 134 units.
Hopefully he will be able to share that with us. Thank you.
Bongiorno: Sure. Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Deputy Chief.
Bongiorno: Mr. Mayor and Council, for a multi-story building like that drive aisles need to
be at least 26 feet wide for ladder truck access.
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Perreault: Thank you. Is there a way for us to confirm that that's the case?
Whallon: Mr. Mayor, Madam -- Chair Woman Perreault, I don't have the --
Perreault: Sorry. Council Woman.
Whallon: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: It's okay.
Whallon: I would assume that Chief Bongiorno ensured that those were 26 foot wide
drive aisles when they built that. I think this project was built back in 2014 maybe. Phase
one. So, I -- I don't have a measurement and I do have the traffic consultant here and
maybe that's something he could speak to, but I was operating under the assumption that
when the construction drawings were submitted they were reviewed and it met all
minimum standards for drive aisle widths.
Perreault: Well, they -- it would have for that size of project, but now we are adding
another 134 units, but we are using the same width of drive aisle. That's the question I'm
asking. Do you -- do you understand what I'm saying?
Allen: Mr. Mayor, may I address the question?
Simison: Yes, you may.
Allen: Council Woman Perreault, it -- when we do development agreement modifications
-- just to back up a little bit -- we only require conceptual development plans and this is
just for the -- changing the use of the property from what was previously approved.
Detailed review of the site plan takes place with the conditional use permit application,
which is submitted after assuming the development agreement modification for the
change in the use and the development of the plan gets approved. So, we will do that
evaluation at that time and all the agencies that are involved do submit their comments
at that time and any changes will -- will be required to take place before they can develop
the site as they want. If they can't comply with those changes, then, we don't approve
their development. So, anyway, I just wanted to clarify if that helps at all and at this time
it's not a detailed review, but they do have to comply with all of those requirements and
life safety stuff at the time of development.
Perreault: Thank you. I appreciate that.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: If Council Woman is good then -- I have just a couple that just came up for me.
So, I have a question about pedestrian connectivity. I'm a little worried and I think what's
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so hard for me with this -- it's so -- it's so backward to me. We are doing a DA modification
and, then, we are going to have a CUP process and the City Council may not see this
again. That's why you are getting all these like detailed questions that your answer is
like, well, in the CUP process we will handle it, but for us this isn't -- this is like the last
time we might see this. I like totally hate that as a control freak type personality. So, talk
to me about how you are going to try to ensure there is pedestrian connectivity between
phase one and phase two and phase three.
Whallon: So, Mr. Mayor, Council Woman Strader, as you can see -- and its light, there is
a sidewalk network. You can see the striped painting or the change of use of materials
for pedestrian connectivity from the building here over to phase one and, again, there is
another pedestrian connection and, then, there is also a direct pedestrian connection out
to River Valley, so -- and, then, as well as from the front of the building out to a ten foot
wide landscape and pathway that will be out along Eagle Road. So, there is a network of
connectivity for pedestrians throughout phase three tying it to phase one.
Strader: Sorry, Mr. Mayor, if you will permit me --
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: -- a series of questions. So, if you are trying to go from like the pool or like the
central amenity in the phase one, phase two part, it looks like there is a pathway, but,
then, I'm assuming these are carports or something. I can't really tell. There are white
kind of rectangular sections here and, then, it just occurs to me sort of odd that there is
no pedestrian entrance that sort of center -- centrally accesses the building. Like I'm just
wondering if -- if you are -- if you are in phase three and you want to go to the pool or
whatever the central amenity is in phase one or phase two, is there a more direct way of
getting there?
Whallon: So, Mr. -- Mr. Mayor, Council Woman Strader, there -- there is breaks in those
carports. That's what you are looking at is the roof of carports. But there are breaks that
pedestrians can go through and get on to the pedestrian network that's associated with
phase one. It is somewhat of a retrofit. There wasn't the intention of tying phase one to
the west of a new phase, so we are looking for opportunities to create a network from
phase three that will tie into phase one and, as I stated, it is a retrofit, but we are going to
do the best we can to make a safe and fully functional non-motorized connection
throughout the development.
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Thank you. Yeah. I guess I -- I would hope -- because it looks like you have a
nice kind of pedestrian connection here facing the middle of the E, if you will, and, then,
maybe you could get rid of a couple of these carports or something. A couple things. So,
have you thought about -- there seems to be like a traffic situation that Council Woman
Perreault has alluded to. Have you guys thought about maybe directing your traffic one
way, you know, kind of circulating through this site? I mean it occurs to me as an option
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for you. I don't know if that's something you guys have looked at. Maybe like get a
circulation pattern going in a clockwise direction or something as a way to help. So,
curious if you have thought about that and maybe we could hear from your traffic guy.
And, then, the other question for the traffic expert -- maybe just a parking question, you
know, how utilized is your parking. Are you charging extra for carports? Do you have full
utilization of those? Is that part of why you have so much parking on the street? Help us
understand how you are going to try to make sure that the, you know, roads are not totally
getting blocked.
Whallon: So, Mr. Mayor, Council Woman Strader, all parking required for the development
is on the property and we try to keep it about 1.7 parking spaces per unit. We -- we want
it to self park. We don't want to impose our parking on other people's property. That
creates contention. Parking under a carport is a premium and so that is something that's
an add on as associated with their base rental unit and, then, they can have a reserved
parking space, they can have a reserved carport parking space, they can also have a
garage or they can just choose to be an open parking. So, it's -- it's -- it's somewhat of a
regulated entity within the development and people kind of gravitate towards paying a
little extra for a parking space that's closer to their front door and so it's a --
Strader: Yeah. I totally get that. I, myself, have owned like small multi-family units, but
what I -- what I want to understand, though, is -- is your parking being fully utilized and do
you have capacity -- like do you have the ability to flex your pricing on your carports or
whatever people are subscribe -- subscribing to to try to make sure that that parking you
have is being maximized in a way that makes sense if you have a traffic issue?
Whallon: So, Mr. Mayor, Council Woman Strader, it is a very fine balance and we try not
to overpark, because, then, that's just wasting space time -- or space and money for
parking spaces that's underutilized and we also don't want to be underparked, because,
then, we run up against imposing our parking on our neighbors. The one thing that does
kind of benefit, if there is -- if we have underparked a space -- typically it's full at night
when other businesses are closing and, then, everybody's getting up, going to work,
typically before some of those businesses open up, but we don't like to rely on that. We
do not like to impose ourselves on other people. We try to hit it just right. We are where
we are providing just enough parking to meet the demands on the property.
Hales: Mayor, Council Members, my name is Ryan Hales from Hales Engineering. I will
be before you tonight and maybe in the future on a couple more projects that we are
working on here in the area. I am a civil engineer by background. I'm a -- I also have an
AICP certificate, so I also -- we do planning and engineering. So, we do a lot of
transportation masterplans. The question that you asked, Council Member Strader, is a
great question. When we look at some of the large facilities that we have worked on --
we just finished Key Arena up in Seattle and doing some traffic analysis up there,
sometimes we will look at one way circulation where we -- we are circulating a large
amount of traffic in one direction and it becomes a very efficient way to move traffic.
Through a project like this we are much better to have traffic moving both directions, just
because the -- the parking is 90 degrees and so it's more efficient for traffic moving in and
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out, but it also creates what we call side friction. I think it's already been noted by Council
Woman Perreault? Perreault? Sorry. Is that right? Great comment. When we -- when
we look at traffic what we have is that side friction slows the traffic down through a project
like this and so if we do have a crash typically those crashes are low impact, low speed
and low severity, which is all good and we -- we appreciate that. The question about the
amount of traffic going through the project -- typically a two lane road can handle up to
about 10,000 ADT. Because we are in a parking lot we are, obviously, a lot lower. You
have got a lot more side friction, a lot less things happening. The additional traffic from
this project will be somewhat minimal as an addition onto what's already there and we are
planning a lot of this traffic mostly to move north-south through the area, except for those
left turns that you spoke about. Very astute in your analysis. We have looked at it and
we think the traffic will flow fairly well through this project. We know the pinch points are
really where we get out to State Highway 55. 1 grew up in the area here and I used to
travel a two lane road up to my grandparents cabin up in Cascade. We would get in the
car and travel along and I have seen this grow --this whole valley has grown in such great
ways, but this --this road is a tremendous road. It's carrying a lot of traffic. We are talking
about 40 to about 42 thousand cars a day. That's a lot of traffic. When you look at a five
lane road -- a five lane road capacity is somewhere between 30 and 35, thousand ADT.
We actually have a lane imbalance on this road. We have three lanes in the northbound
direction and two lanes in the southbound direction through this segment. We are
handling a lot of traffic, but it is -- it is kind of at its peak. The analysis that we ran was for
years 2021 and 2023 and under full build conditions we can handle that traffic. There
may be a point in the future where we need to change the timing of the signal in the green
phase that is in the westbound direction to clear out the queues to allow left turns to come
out. Anybody who is turning left would have to come out the main access of the project
and, then, meander over to make a left turn at the light. There are dual left turn lanes in
that location, which makes it a lot more efficient and a lot more available to do. There is
very few through movements going westbound through the intersection and the right turns
move fairly quickly with the light and they can -- they can diminish quickly. That being
said, it looks to be a very efficient project getting the traffic in and out and especially with
the cross-access easement going to the north. Again, we don't anticipate a lot of traffic
cutting through there, but we know there will be some. But, again, with the side friction it
will be slow moving. Any other questions, Council Members or Mayor, that I might be able
to address?
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: Is there any anticipation that visitors to the commercial to the south are going
to use that backage road to get -- to make a right more quickly? Sometimes that River
Valley Street gets backed up, especially during Saturdays and Sundays -- high -- high
shopping days times.
Hales: Yeah. Great question. We anticipate there will be some cut through going
through, but we think it will be minimal, again, because of the parking conditions. When
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you have a lot of side friction -- and you will see this in a residential neighborhood where
you have garbage cans that are put out or cars that are parked on the road, it tends to
narrow that travel the way -- and that width down. Because it will be at 26 feet, which is
the fire code, we know we have a certain width, but people are concerned about others
backing out and it just slows traffic down with that side friction. So, we are hopeful that
we won't get a lot of people cutting through.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor, follow up?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: I was speaking specifically to the backage road, so I didn't anticipate you would
have those kinds of impediments that there is -- is there going -- intended to be off-street
parking -- or, excuse me, offsite parking on that backage road?
Hales: I would consider it on site, because --
Perreault: Is that -- is that a private road that belongs to that site only that's -- that's not
for public use?
Hales: No. I think it is -- well -- and I can't answer all the questions, but I do believe it to
be for public use. But I do believe there is also cars that will be backing out into that. It's
not specifically a roadway from what I understand. It will be cutting through the site. Did
I represent that correctly?
Simison: Sir, if you can get on the mic -- microphone.
Whallon: So, Mr. Mayor, Council Woman Perreault, it's -- it will not be in an ACHD
roadway, but there will be an access easement from north -- North River Valley Street --
or East River Valley Street to the north where it meets back up to Eagle Road, each
property owner conveying cross-access to all patrons and parties -- to all the other
properties associated with it. So, everybody is extending a cross-access to everybody
else.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor, if I may?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: We have some other areas of the city where we are just really seeing people
cut through neighborhoods, cut through areas that we wouldn't have, especially around
Eagle Road and so if that is, indeed, a private road, I would highly recommend that it be
-- that there will be signage -- that there be some -- something that specifies, because I
don't think people are going to care if it -- who has a cross-access easement, if they see
that there is a way to get through it they are going to take it.
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Whallon: Mr. Mayor, Council Woman Perreault, I think that's a great comment. It's kind
of the -- you know, water goes to the path of least resistance and people driving cars do
the same thing and if it will benefit both the safety of the people crossing that drive aisle
and people using it, I think there are blue signs that you can put up that say it's -- it's
private, but we are all extending cross-access to each other, so we all know that our
customers and our tenants -- we can all use this road and, hopefully, it's not super inviting
for people who don't live or shop in this area for them to be using it.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, again, I don't know if this is the
Council's concern. I'm glad that the amenity package on phase three will meet the
requirements for the site and not borrow from the other sites. That was kind of the
conversation the last time. But you used the word retrofit. So, I understand Bach Homes
owns all of it, currently one and two and three, and so putting in cross-access, pedestrian
pathways, is totally within your control, allowing access back and forth between one and
two and three is totally within your control, but nothing in phase one and two's
development agreement requires that in the future. All of it is on three saying everybody
in one and two can come here and everybody in three can go there, but we need to amend
the other development agreements if the Council thinks that amenity offer that you are
making is important to the future of this development. You will likely own this together,
guess, but you may not. You may not own it all in one piece forever or -- or it may not be
one ownership forever. So, I don't know if that matters to the Council. If it does we are
going to need to amend one and two. If it doesn't matter to the Council, because your
amenity package is adequate for your site, then, we don't have to. But right now it's really
just your goodwill as the owner of the entire project to create that connectivity, but there
is nothing guaranteeing that for the future for the one and two phase.
Whallon: So, Mr. Mayor, Council Members and Mr. Nary respectfully, yes, that is our
intent to make this as one unit, to function as one. The clubhouse, all of the amenities
that are located within there. Afull gym. They have suntanning booths. That's where the
hot tub is and the pool. We want to make sure that people that are in phase three are
welcome and can use any of those amenities. So, we intend to extend an easement to
phase three that all of the amenities that have been provided in phase one and phase
two are available to any tenant for phase three, but phase three is a standalone review
through the conditional use permit process. We will meet all of the standards, open
space, landscaping, off-street parking and amenities based upon the unit count that we
are shooting for and so we are anticipating for this to be as if it's one apartment complex,
it's just growing in size.
Nary: And, Mr. Mayor, just one follow up.
Simison: Mr. Nary.
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Nary: Mr. Whallon, I certainly have no -- no concern about that and, again, it's not a
requirement that I think we -- we have to mandate, what I'm saying is if it matters to the
Council that you do what they are saying you are going to do, whether Bach Homes owns
this forever or another entity owns this, that this all be one unit, the only way to guarantee
that in my head is to amend the existing development agreement for one and two to
assure that. That's totally a voluntary decision on your part to bring that forward. But
extending that still would require a development agreement -- a modification. I mean you
could -- you could do it, but the DA mod has to match that. So, I mean, again, if that's
something the Council feels is important you want to commit to, but it's not necessarily
required today, it doesn't have to be and the Council is comfortable with you saying we
will just follow up with that as a future piece, that's up to them. I just want to bring that up
if that was important I just want to make sure that was out there. Because right now I
think it's important that you have made that clear that to your attention, I just wanted to
button up the legal piece of making it an actual permanent requirement for all of it to be
used as one.
Whallon: So, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council and Mr. Nary, I'm not an attorney, but
I'm under the impression that the development agreement determines how the property
is developed and so phase one has already been developed. So, I'm not sure that we
would have to modify the development agreement, but just record an easement on that
property conveying to phase three that all amenities located within this property are
available to you and record that against phase one, benefiting phase three.
Nary: So, again, I don't want to get two hung up on the legal stuff for everybody. Yes,
that's correct, you can do that and that will allow it. The only people that can, then, enforce
that is the people that live in three and they would, then, have to take a private cause of
action to bring that forward. If you amend the development agreement now it becomes
an ongoing existing contractual relationship with the city that one and two will always
allow three to access its amenities if somehow you had two separate owners or a future
owner says I don't like this arrangement, I just want everybody over here to use this piece,
right now we can't force them to do it differently. If it's in the DA the city could help and
assist saying, no, this is all one. That's what we wanted. That's what they promised. We
want it to remain that way. The city, then, has the ability to do that. So, those are the
difference between the two. The easement allows it by private agreement. The
contractual agreement with the city allows the city to say, no, our intention was that they
would all be one thing. Totally if that's what the Council wants that would be the way we
would have to achieve it.
Whallon: Respectfully understood. Thank you.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: Mr. Nary, question in that regard. So, the applicant is proposing that the
existing DAs go away; right? And, then, a new DA is -- is -- is written. So, then, if one
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and two goes away -- or the original DA or the two -- I don't know if there was one or two
originally. If those go away, then, would there still be a need to modify them or would that
not just become a requirement in the DA that's replacing the original?
Nary: So, Mr. Mayor, Member of the Council, Council Member Perreault, the DAs that we
are asking to be removed are the ones for the parcels on the west, not the parcels of
River Valley one and two. The one that was a commercial development and storage. So,
it's those two that they are asking. What I'm saying is I don't -- if the Council's desire is
to move forward with this project you don't have to hold it up by saying you won't move
this forward until they bring a DA mod on one and two of River Valley, but if they are going
to make a commitment they will do that and you are comfortable with that commitment
that they are going to do that within the next period of time, that's up to you. Or if you
want to make a condition in the DA for this to say before the final CO of the final product
they will bring forward a DA modification for River Valley one and two. But whatever
trigger you want to make that's within your purview, if that's your desire.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Love that. It makes perfect sense to me if that's your intention I think that I
personally, as one of -- one of the folks up here would definitely want that. I have a
question for Sonya. I wish there was a way to kick this to Planning and Zoning and follow
the CUP process to have it come before us for final approval. Is there a way we could do
that? Maybe a question for Planning and Legal.
Allen: Mr. Mayor, Council Woman Strader, there is no way as -- as code is currently
written, no.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader -- Perreault.
Perreault: Yeah, I start getting a little bit loopy at this time of night. Has the conditional
use permit already been -- application already been submitted?
Whallon: Yes, ma'am, it has.
Perreault: Has a hearing date been set?
Whallon: They are waiting for this process to end before they will put it on the schedule.
Perreault: Okay. So, this -- it does have to go in an order of this happening before the
CUP goes before the Planning and Zoning Commission? Okay.
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Simison: Can I back up with the transportation elements and its -- I was not here when
this was -- I was not here when this first came through, but I don't know if this has been
discussed, but Deputy Chief, I'm -- how was the fire department planning on accessing
this facility generally as you see it?
Bongiorno: Well, Mr. Mayor and Council, I mean as it sits our only access is that access
off River Valley. So, we either have to go around and north or the other reason why we
require two accesses is for that-- is that cross-access from phase one to phase three, we
need that also if the other access is going to be there. I mean it's going to be hard to get
to period. To answer your question. We can get there, but it's going to be a tough route.
Simison: And in what time frame? Have you mapped this one on the response? Because
if it's a ladder truck required, it's got to come from Station 1 --
Bongiorno: Correct.
Simison: -- coming down -- and I'm guessing we are well outside of a five minute
response with a ladder truck to this location -- I didn't want to use the -- circuitous or -- a
circuitous route you are going to have to take in order to serve, because --
Bongiorno: Yeah.
Simison: -- you have got to go down past the Great Wall and come back through that
space or you got to come up Records and take a left on East River Valley or a right in
because of the challenges that otherwise exist.
Bongiorno: Correct. Yeah. I'm pulling up the map. So, that piece of property falls -- real
quick. Yes. That piece of property does fall within our five minute area.
Simison: For Station 1?
Bongiorno: For Station 1, yeah. So, it's just that -- it's going to be an odd shot like -- like
you had mentioned to get there. We are going to have to go all the way past, circle back
around, once that road -- that backage road is built, but in the interim the only access is
to circle all the way through and go through the existing complex to get in there. That's
going to be the quickest way, because you can't get that ladder truck to do a U-turn in the
middle of East River Valley Street, plus they have curbing up that won't allow it anyway.
So, it's going to be a challenge for an engine or a water truck period.
Simison: And that's -- you know, we can all be our own traffic engineers, but I think long
term the -- the primary access for this facility is to the north of the Great Wall.
Bongiorno: I agree.
Simison: That's where people are going to enter from. So, even the conversations about
this -- you know, when I was looking at this and I'm seeing parking on both sides of what
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is, essentially, the road and the conversation about there being -- you know, you are --
with the Great Wall's current location's access going away, you are creating the backage
road. It's not a private -- through a residential area 26 foot full access, it is the access for
other businesses, whether we like it or not.
Bongiorno: Yes.
Simison: And so when I -- at least when I look at the design with this -- I see a traffic
challenge occurring for everybody through this, that's -- I don't -- that doesn't help
anything, I just think it exists.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Yeah. And question. You sat here through our previous hearing and dealt with
cross-access and those types of things. You know, when I look at this and you see the
amount of traffic -- and you are absolutely right from a traffic perspective friction does
slow things down. I mean it can be useful and sometimes we forget that, because
residents -- we had one over here by St. Luke's where residents -- no more traffic, no --
the parking on the side streets is causing us to slow people -- you know, it's too much,
but yet it slows down and they wanted slower traffic, so -- but how -- help me understand
how this is not a similar situation where you have a lot of activity and yet this is going to
be the focal point for people to get to another business and when this eventually goes
through and connects and there is going to be other areas that it won't be a cut-through
area in a way that can -- can this remain safe designed as is. Like I said in the earlier
hearing, I'm more used to the cross-access -- access agreements that are private and
they are set aside for that function and with limited points to these different -- in most
cases commercial. So, is that something that's doable or is that something that's
completely out of the question? I know you have got five stories, you need adequate
parking, but is there a way to get there?
Whallon: So, Mr. Chair -- Chair, Council Member Hoaglun, I would just offer that a
residential use generates less traffic than a commercial use and so -- and they are kind
of focused, they get up and leave primarily in the morning and don't return until the
afternoon, whereas if this was commercial in use there would be people coming on and
off the property all day long in higher numbers. But I do think that with -- with careful
striping and articulation or different use of materials, those will help calm traffic, slow them
down a little bit, which provides a benefit. It might frustrate drivers a little bit, but the
slower the speeds are the safer that that development and drive aisle can be. I don't
know if you want to add anything to that.
Hales: You know, the only thing that I would add to that is as you look at the access point,
the Great Wall, their access is probably going to come primarily from the north. People
will pass by on Highway 55, they will see the Great Wall and they will turn through that
north access to come back and so what we are hopeful is that we don't have people really
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trying to cut through the entire site to navigate to it. What we talk about is we talk about
destination retail. You know, a destination commercial of some type and this will become
more of a destination site, especially with that right-in, right-out that--the temporary right-
in, right-out removed, it will become more destination based. So, again, people will most
likely come from the north, access that area through the apartments. Will still have some
coming from the north and around and we will have some coming from the south as well.
So, I agree. I understand your question. Your question being it could be a -- its entirely
its own road and just be a backage road itself. Unfortunately, the site doesn't permit that
with the -- the width of the site. Good question.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Just to follow up. Yeah. And your points are good and I think it's a death nail
for whatever business goes into the Great Wall, it just makes it so difficult. How do you
tell people how to get there. Oh, go through this parking lot of the apartment complex
and, then, you are going to turn -- and that's fine. We don't know what's going to happen
to the north. I mean, again, from our discussion from earlier tonight, you know, what's
going to happen, what does it look like, what are the access points? Is that going to be
commercial? Is that going to be apartments? We don't know what. I would like to know,
because that would help determine, because I think you are right, that will just become
more of a local point for people to go through and I do like the fact you have Records
Avenue, that gives you access to Ustick Road, it gives you access to Fairview, you can
go right or left, there is a light, you know, so there are some good points about this that
open up options for people when -- when they travel, it's just that particular road there --
and I didn't know -- I noticed you had parking slots to the right, if -- if that road could be
slid over a bit and keep the parking on the left side to kind of create some separation, but
-- I don't know. It's -- it's just a struggle to -- to make sure this is all going to work and --
and again -- and I don't have a problem with the apartments on Eagle Road. I -- you
know, they will fit there and people who want to be there will rent those and so that's --
that's not my issue. It's more just how will that flow work and is it going to be something
that's going to be a major issue later on, but, anyway, appreciate the -- the answers that
you gave.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Maybe we could chat about the schools, too, if that's possible to get into that.
So, that definitely has been an issue -- consistent issue in Meridian, consistent issue from
the last time you were before us. Centennial is over populated right now. I think it's like
107 percent of capacity. You talked a little bit about your timeline. Have you chatted with
the schools and how this would work with your phasing and when you think this project
would be delivered?
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Whallon: So, Council Chair Simison, Council Woman Strader, I had not reached out to
West Ada School District. I think the number of students they said would be coming from
phase three were at 14 and I -- I'm not sure that that number is true high or low. They are
the professionals in that regard. But I do know that we are looking for this phase to be
angled or marketed towards the young professional that's going to, you know, be -- want
to be out there on the street, see the activity and they are primarily studio and one
bedroom units and so we are not creating too many opportunities for too many students
to be generated, but I do know that a lot of people when they make a decision on where
they are going to want to live, it's either because of the school district they want to be in
or because it's close to work and if those are the two factors that are determining where
somebody is going to live and they are looking at this apartment complex, then, if they
can't get into this apartment complex they are probably not going too far away from it.
So, those 14 students are still going to be within the West Ada County School District.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Yeah. And, thanks, I appreciate that. I'm -- I don't know. We have received a
lot of different information from the school district lately, so I have a hard time with this
formula and everything, but maybe walk me through your unit count and the mixture of
how many studios, how many one bedroom, and how many -- really, how many two
bedroom are we talking about? I agree that your amenities -- it seems like what you are
planning right now is really geared toward young professionals or, you know, empty
nesters and so forth, but if you can walk me through the unit mix that you are planning
on.
Whallon: So, Mayor Simison, Council Woman Strader, I don't have the final count. The
architects are still working on the floor plans trying to figure out exactly what it is that they
are going to submit through the construction drawing process, but I'm told of the 134 units
approximately 40 of them will be two bedrooms and, then, the rest will be evenly divided
between studio and one bedroom.
Strader: Thanks. That's helpful.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Just real quick, can we see if there is anybody -- are we ready to hear from -- if
there is anybody else that wants to testify or are we still --
Perreault: I have got one question.
Simison: Okay. Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: Thank you. Did you -- so, when the notices were sent out for these hearings
they only went to property owners, which means that the city did not require you to notify
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any residents that are living in the first two phases. Did you voluntarily do that on your
own? Were they invited to ask questions, have discussions and, in addition to that, did
you talk with a property management company and get information regarding how many
children are -- oftentimes with leases you will list the number of people in your unit and
how many -- how their ages are. Maybe their leases aren't requiring them to do that, but
that's common. Did you look into any of that information to help determine how many
children might be living in those units? How many are currently in phase one and phase
two? Are people only parking to the -- I mean I have parked in there in different times of
day and night and it's packed. It's packed. Did you use any of that data that you have
from the first phases to help determine what's going to happen in the third phase?
Whallon: So, Mr. Mayor, Council Woman Perreault, as to the pre-planning events that
happened before we submitted our application I can't speak to. When I was before the
Council on October 19th that was my sixth day of employment with Bach Homes. So, I
came in somewhat -- the ship had already sailed to an extent. But I know that Bach
Homes out of Draper, Utah -- I live in Boise. I have lived here for the last 17 years. But
Bach Homes, they are home, townhomes and apartment builders. That's what they do.
And they learn through the process and so they have kiddie pools, the -- the smaller
wading pool and those kinds of amenities associated with phase one and phase two and
they have provided them for enough --for the child count that's there, they have got plenty
of outdoor play opportunities for them. In this instance the phase three, they are really
targeting it towards the young professionals and they are making the amenity package
compliment that. So, it's -- they are really looking for two different audiences or capturing
all of the audience's that may be out there, whether they are more interested in phase
one or phase three, depending upon what lifestyle they want to choose. So, they are --
they are not looking to replicate what they did in phase one in phase three. They are
looking to do something different. So, the child count in phase one and two is not what
they are after in phase three.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: I get that, but they -- if -- if somebody -- I understand that, but anybody can
rent it. They can't--they can't not let someone rent it because they are targeting a certain
audience, so I think you have to prepare for -- for it anyway no matter who they market it
to. And I'm sorry they throw you into the deep end of the pool a week being into -- but I
would hope, though, that they would be utilizing the information that they have in the first
two phases to benefit the -- the acceptance or approval of this and I'm surprised that they
aren't, you know, using that information or that you don't have access to that information
to help do that.
Whallon: So, Mayor Simison, Council Woman Perreault, I'm not saying that they don't.
They have got two architects on the -- on the staff that are continually updating the plans
and are drafting the floor plans as directed by the company owners and so I'm not saying
that they haven't taken that into account and that they are -- they haven't learned or know
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exactly how they want to build phase three and the unit mix and the amenity package.
Those are all things that the owners are taking into consideration before they make this
type of an investment in the community and they want to make sure that what they are
doing is not duplicating, replicating or redundancy, they want something fresh, they want
any -- all -- all audiences to be entertained on the site and so I think that they -- I can't
speak to it, unfortunately, in the -- in the terms that you want, but I know that they have
got two architects on the staff that are continually updating and making sure that the
investment that we are looking to make in this property is not only a good investment
today, but ten, 15 and 25 years down the road.
Simison: So, with that let's see if we have any public testimony. We may not, we may
get right back into all these questions, but, Madam Clerk, do we have anyone signed up
provide testimony on this item?
Weatherly: Mr. Mayor, we had one sign in and it's JoAnn Butler online.
Simison: Okay. We will go ahead and hear from JoAnn. If there is anybody else online
that would like to provide testimony on this item, please, use the raise your hand feature,
so we can bring you in the conversation.
Butler: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Can you hear me?
Simison: We can. State your name and address for the record.
Butler: Sure. JoAnn Butler. 967 East Parkcenter Boulevard in Boise representing the
owner of the property that is called the Great Wall property. I apologize for not appearing
with you or on screen, but think of me as looking very much like Councilman Borton with
a hoodie and the Kleenex next to me, just without the beard. So, let me take -- bear with
me if I take more than three minutes, but I'm going to answer a lot of questions that I think
were raised by some of the Council Members. I'm going to focus only on our concerns
with condition number four, which is found on page nine of your staff report and we have
a suggestion for a change and thank you, Sonya, for leaving that particular map up
showing the drive aisle that people call a backage road, but it is a drive aisle through
private property. As it goes north over the South Slough it will continue going north to the
commercial property to be developed there and it will also go east to the residential
property that will look somewhat similar to what the part of the -- the existing apartments
look like. Perry Coles purchased the Great Wall restaurant just a few weeks ago and
after reviewing the various development agreements and issues and talking with staff and
with Mr. Whallon, which we really appreciated and the neighbors to the north, we brought
up this idea of an emergency access only between the Great Wall property and the
northern boundary of what is the Regency phase three, because of the change in land
use going from commercial to residential and because of the fact that the road is going to
be built to the north. We appreciated having those discussions and we want to say that
historically there has been, you know, the -- the stage has been set. The master
development agreement governing the properties in this area requires backage access
roughly parallel to Eagle Road serving properties that front -- properties that front Eagle
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Road and Meridian Code limits access in the vicinity of Eagle Road and strives -- strives
for backage for properties that front Eagle Road. But we have a large concern with that
development agreement condition number four, because this condition appears to
premature -- prematurely determine the scope of the cross-access, especially by
providing backage access to property that doesn't front Eagle Road. Condition four calls
for cross-access to provide -- be provided across our client's private property to allow
traffic to come from not only Regency phase three, which is 134 apartments, but also from
Regency phases one and two, which don't front Eagle Road, with I believe almost 300
apartments. I'm not sure that this is either appropriate or perhaps even illegal to send all
that traffic through the private property. As Sonya said, we understand that the devil is in
the details and it typically comes out in the conditional use applications, but we would like
to try to see if we can make a demarcation of emergency access, so that traffic from the
Great Wall going north goes -- it continues, you know, serving the property north of the
North Slough and that the backage access goes -- continues going south for phase three.
As one of the Council Members just mentioned, this does look like the death nail to the
Great Wall property and several Council Members have speculated how is this even going
to work. Do you need to stripe it? Do you need to sign it? How -- you know. And that's
-- that's a lot of traffic going north. So, we think that what should be done -- it should not
be done today with this condition number four, which says that there will be cross-access,
taking all phases one and two through our client's property, but wait until the -- not with
the DA mod, but wait until the conditional use project comes forward and more in
formation is known about the traffic, the traffic flow -- perhaps we can avoid a situation
like we found in the project that was before you immediately before this one. So, I -- best
of all possible worlds for us would be to have an emergency access only at that point
where phase three and the Great Wall property meets. Appreciate the fire chief's
comments on needing that emergency access and I would -- I guess we would suggest if
you go forward with this that we have a change to condition number four, so it reads
something along these lines: That the scope of a cross-access agreement for the
properties, including Regency phase three, and the properties immediately north and
south, shall be identified during the Bach Homes conditional use permit hearing. That will
also allow our client the time it needs to perfect its conditional use application that it must
make and work further with the folks at Bach Homes and we can also, then, bring more
information to you about the schedule of construction as we go north. So, I -- I really
appreciate if you have any questions of us, but we -- we just definitely don't think that
other -- we are sorry that it's not going to be commercial and it's become residential and
that much more traffic will be sent through our client's property and we don't think it's
appropriate to send phases one and two through that property and -- but, you know what,
we don't have all the information today. We don't have that traffic circulation and those
numbers. So, I guess I'm saying that we should at the very least kick the can down the
road to address it when that information is known at the conditional use hearing. Thank
you. And I will be happy to answer any questions.
Simison: Council, any questions?
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
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Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor and JoAnn, thank you for your comments. I was just happening to
be looking on Google Earth before you spoke and I was looking to the -- the properties to
the north where the grocery store used to be and where Chili's is and Five Guys and --
and, you know, they -- they have created a specific drive aisles and -- out of parking lots.
I mean it's -- it's various distinct, they are separate, but it allows that access and it looked
like to me -- and I had in my head all along that it would be like, well, that's kind of what I
expect all coming down to the south and that matching up someday and I don't know
what's going to go in that property that's just to the north of the Great WalI, but I can see
that, someone's -- you know, former Trader Joe's -- I can't remember what's there now --
coming down and saying, hey, we want to go to this establishment and can come down
there to that and I'm intrigued by your idea and, then, at that point that's the last
commercial or retail or whatever the Great Wall turns into, because, then, it turns into
residential. Yes, you have Mattress Firm there at the corner, but that's kind of on an island
by itself and it kind of fixes my concerns about the amount of traffic and how that goes
through and it was my comment about it being a death nail for that retail -- for the
restaurant there with that type of-- type of structure or parking access -- I'm sorry -- drive
access to --to the Great Wall. Do you know what any-- anything more about the property
to the north of the Great Wall and how that's going to develop and is it feasible -- and
maybe you know somebody can't say, that's fine, but is it feasible to have that type of
drive aisle coming down from Five Guys behind there and continuing on that would access
to the -- to the Great Wall?
Butler: I can tell you what I do know from talking to GGI, the folks that own the property
to the north, they are in the process of extending the -- the -- the south slough there and
that would access the Great Wall and that they will continue going north and they will
have very similar-- it looks -- their concept plans look very similar to what you see before
you on that--on the page right there where you have got commercial fronting along Eagle
Road and residential to the east along Records Avenue and so that is what they were
planning and what we have been talking about with them is, you know, that that will allow
access from Eagle Road into their property and, then, going south to the Great Wall
property. Does that answer your question?
Hoaglun: Yes, it does. Thank you, JoAnn.
Butler: Okay.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council -- Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Just a question for staff. I -- I really wish that we could see all of these
applications come at the same time, see how this would work, really like flush this out.
Give this applicant a chance to work with the folks that purchased Great Wall. Is -- is
there a way to continue this or run this concurrently with that application? I'm just trying
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to brainstorm. Is there a way to -- to take that sort of an approach, because it's like we
need a holistic solution for this part of the city.
Allen: Mr. Mayor, Council Woman Strader -- correct me if I'm wrong, Mr. Nary, but as
current code reads Chapter Five, Title 11, calls out the procedure for conditional use
permit and development agreement modification applications. They both only require
public hearings, development agreement modification before Council, and the conditional
use permit before Commission. If you wish for a code change to be put into process or
conditional use permits to be run concurrently with DA modifications when applicable, we
can certainly look at that, but as is I don't think we can change our process outside of our
code requirements.
Strader: Okay. Let me just interrupt. Oh, go ahead, Mr. Nary.
Nary: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Strader, what I was going to
say is -- I mean the reason they don't work in parallel is because they can't. I mean right
now the reason the DA mod has to be a decision point prior to CUP is because they can't
consider the CUP if you're not going to allow them to do it anyway. So, until you allow
this use to change and be this new use, there is no CUP to consider. So, that's one
problem with the CUP DA mod being congruent. If it's a different application that's being
heard for -- for the Great Wall piece or the east-north of that -- well, again, that's a
completely different application process that's going to go through the neighborhood
meeting, you know, P&Z, Council approval -- I mean those -- there really isn't a method
in our code to make them all sequentially unless it's one big project and that, again,
doesn't have very much.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Yep. Get what you are saying. Maybe just -- I will cut to the chase where I'm
at. I'm not comfortable moving forward right now. I just don't feel like I have enough
information about how this is going to come together. I would prefer -- like I definitely
don't want storage here. Like in the grand scheme of things I would much prefer to see
-- ultimately to see a nice residential development here. I think that would look great. But
-- or retail. But I -- I think it works. If what they have right now is not viable, but the issue
I have is -- I just don't see how this is flushed out with the access and I don't think it's
appropriate to approve this now when this is our only bite at the apple. I would prefer to
continue this for several months, if needed, to give you guys a chance to work with the
owners of the Great Wall and I would like to see that property come before us first. That's
just me.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: We are -- we have someone -- do we have questions for the person testifying?
Otherwise, I'm going to go to the next person who is testifying to make sure we get them
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through, because we are still going to have a long conversation. So, is there a question
for JoAnn at this point in time from Council? Okay. We do have another person who has
signed up to testify. So, we will recognize Alex Dahl for three minutes. If you would state
your name and address for the record.
Dahl: Hello, Mr. Mayor and Members of the Council. My name is Alex Dahl. I am the
architect of the project. I work for Bach Homes and I live in South Jordan, Utah. 12348
South Little Sahara Drive. And I just wanted to kind of point out some of the things that
are written in the staff analysis as to what we are trying to accomplish I guess with this
particular conditional -- or this development agreement modification and what the staff
has recommended approval for this development agreement modification because the
future land use map has indicated that they have desire for high density residential in this
area and that the vicinity to the commercial and retail restaurants to the south and, then,
also the Kleiner Park and senior center to the southeast indicate that this would be
considered one of the desired uses for this particular parcel and that as we continue to
develop our plans -- this is currently in conceptual design. We haven't really flushed out
any of the details. We are hoping to get a development agreement modification done so
that as we move through the conditional use permit application that we might be able to
develop this plan further, so that we can meet all code standards and all zoning standards
put into place for this parcel. Considering the cross-access agreements that are in place
on this site, we are doing our best to be able to adhere to those cross-access agreements
and allowing for that backage road to go from the south to the north connecting East River
Valley Street all the way up through to the additional retail and commercial properties to
the north. As far as some of the other concerns we -- we just want to make sure that
everybody is aware that as Bach Homes we are planning to continue to develop this
further with the help of the planning and -- the planning department to be able to meet all
code requirements and to adhere to the zoning requirements for this particular site. So,
if you have any questions for me, please, go ahead and --
Simison: Council, any questions? Okay. Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: My apologies. I don't have a question for Mr. Dahl, but JoAnn had her hand
raised and, then, I'm not --
Simison: I think it was just raised because -- from the original time.
Perreault: Oh. Okay. Thank you.
Simison: So -- seeing -- seeing no one else wishing to testify, would the applicant like to
come forward for any final comments?
Whallon: So, Mayor Simison, Members of the City Council, I really do appreciate the
dialogue, the questions, the detailed elements of the plan that you want to know about,
because it's important, it's a part of the community, and once it's built it's going to be there
for 25, 30 years. It needs to work from day one and 30 years down the road. So, I just
want to say that Bach Homes has looked very diligently at making this a productive -- not
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-- not a vacant piece of land, but a productive piece of land. They did look at different
commercial uses, commercial retail, speculative retail, then, they looked at the storage
units and then --then the plan as the thought-- as the acquisition of land grew the thought
that a third phase of the Regency, which has been a very successful project for them, it
started to make more sense. I appreciated Ms. Butler's comments. We had several
phone conversations talking about the type of development that would happen, the
timelines in which that would happen, and, then, we just -- we felt that the backage road
was something that, you know, really was important, but at this point if -- if making that
just an emergency service vehicle access only, in speaking with our traffic consultant we
still would be above level of service standards required on East River Valley Street, so it
will still function and so we could lessen -- reduce the impact on that new property owner
to the north that will be taking over the Great Wall property and they can go in their
direction with the backage road and get their functionality out of it. We can have a
backage road on our side and there is connectivity for an emergency service vehicle in
that instance that they would be able to go north to south or south to north. We can make
that concession today. But aside from that the specific floor plans, the materials that we
will use for the surfaces, you know, all of those are still being worked on by our
architectural team in plans for that conditional use permit and they have to get this
development agreement modification in place first before the city's planning department
will allow us to move forward with that conditional use permit. So, I know you have a lot
of questions still and we did try, honestly, as hard as we could to hear what your comments
were on October 19th and respond to them in a way that made the project more clear. It
sounds like we still have some questions, but I think that a lot of those questions are really
the questions that staff scrutinizes during their review of the conditional use permit
process, whether this development agreement was in place ten years ago or we are
modifying it and putting a new one in place today, their review for a conditional use permit
for a multi-family housing project and this zoning designation is going to be the same
review. So, you know, this is -- that's -- that's their opportunity to look at the development
standards and look at our plans and make sure that we are meeting all of those
requirements and so -- so, I'm standing before you today to consider removing the
development agreements on the two existing parcels that face on North Eagle Road,
replace it with the development agreement that Sonya has proposed, page nine of the
staff report, and allow us to move forward through the conditional use permit process
where staff has the opportunity-- allows us to really truly cultivate the plans for that review
by staff through the conditional use permit process.
Simison: Thank you. So, I didn't have the benefit, again, of the first meeting and just to
help me understand, even based on what we have heard -- so, every single parcel on this
mile is going to be retail commercial, except for these two, and so my question from what
we are -- tell me why these two won't work as retail commercial? Is it that they won't work
or you prefer them not to work? And, again, you are talking about -- you said 30 years.
We are really making 75 to 100 year decisions here. Is it that these two won't work
tomorrow for commercial or they won't work in three years for commercial when
everything else on this entire stretch of road has been built out as commercial and these
two parcels need to be the outliers. Can you at least explain to me why that needs to be
the case? Is it need or preferred?
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Whallon: So, Mayor Simison, as I was told they had these parcels on the market for a
long time. Went through the process to get the development agreements put in place
through the city and those -- those were years apart in getting those approvals. Then
they went out to market trying to do long-term leases or sale and they couldn't get anybody
to close on the property and the comments that they got back was it was access. That
was the limitation. And so that's when they decided that they had to take another look at
what they were going to propose for this property and that's when they decided, hey, it's
big enough for another phase of the Regency. So, I think that -- and as Mr. Dahl stated
and which was in Sonya's staff report, the future land use map of the Comprehensive
Plan does say North Eagle Road or these arterials are a suitable place for high density
residential.
Simison: I understand that component. I -- I guess the point -- we understand that this
-- this -- these two parcels have been a challenge for years because of not knowing what
was going to happen with two other areas, but kind of going back to Council Woman
Strader's point, now that you are trying to get more clarity on the access issues, both for
the Great Wall and for the additional parcels, do those access issues still exist? And if
so, is it because of the East Valley left in not -- is that the issue? Because that to me
would be the only thing that I could identify as a potential reason why commercial would
not be suitable once you have the parcel to the north come in for application and you,
essentially, create the frontage road from Ustick down to East River Valley, you know, so
it's -- whether or not Council thinks commercial or residential is appropriate I think is one
question, but I'm -- I'm just -- personally I'm not convinced that commercial is not a long-
term best viable option in this, because -- in other words, what we are essentially saying
this, yeah, except for we -- we really want you to get back out on Eagle Road or go down
through Records and come up through one of the other residential areas to get access to
the other commercial in that area. If we are putting bollards in to prevent north-south
movements what makes it okay to not allow north-south through multi-family, but we are
going to allow east-west through other residential areas, which I have driven through
those areas when I leave Five Guys and hop on Records to get out. That's how I go
through is other people's homes, because that's what you do in a lot of ways. So, some
of this is not meant to be responded to. You have answered the question I think to the
best of your ability. So, I will leave it at that, more for up here's consideration as they think
about next steps. I'm sure you are not going to get out that easy. I'm sure there is more
questions coming, so I wouldn't go very far.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Go to Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: I am listening and I know I haven't spoke very much this evening, but I'm just sitting
here in my office at my home and enjoying the dialogue. So, I appreciate what's been
said. I appreciate what's been said by the applicant's presentation and by the dialogue
from my fellow Council Members. I don't -- I don't mean to bring levity to tonight's public
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hearing, but anytime Mr. Nary speaks as much as he does, you know, in a land use
application causes me for concern and I completely agree with -- with the Mayor. This --
this application just is just too complicated. It's -- there is -- there is a lot of moving parts
that don't make quite -- this doesn't make enough sense for me to be able to vote in favor
of it. I do not support continuing this for any amount of time tonight. I believe we need to
make a decision. We have already continued to once and with that--with that said I won't
be in favor.
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor. Believe it or not I don't have anymore questions for the applicant.
No. I have the exact same -- exact same thing that you just -- that you just shared. This
is foregoing just an area where commercial -- commercial is really intended. That -- I
mean that's -- that's what is existing in this area and foregoing that I really think that it
needs to be taken seriously and I think we are taking it seriously to the extent that it needs
to be and, you know, a couple of us have asked how long the --the applicant has marketed
that property, not because we are under the assumption the applicant hasn't tried.
Obviously they are -- they are trying to make a profit and that's what they do, but we have
had applicants come before us that have tried to market properties for 20 years that have
not been able to. So, for us, understanding the time frame and the process by which the
applicant has really gone to lengths to -- to -- to use the property as is currently approved,
it's helpful for us to understand that, because, really, we are being asked to -- what we
believe exchange the -- the primary and highest use for this for something that is that --
it's not that residential isn't a high use, it's just about placement: right? And so we are we are asking so many questions because this is really critical and I still don't feel like we
really truly have an answer on any details -- any specific details on what the applicant has
done to try to fulfill the DAs as they currently are in terms of-- I guess, okay, they have --
they have -- they have attempted to do so. There is, obviously, access issues and there
is, obviously, access issues whether it's residential or it's commercial. So, I don't feel like
putting residential in here solves the access issues. It creates different ones, but they are
still there and -- and that's all I had to share.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: I think 1, yeah, kind of said my piece earlier. I -- for me I just -- I don't think it's
there yet. I -- the door is not shut with me. I don't think that it's inconceivable, but that --
you guys could figure out a way. I think the right way to go about doing this to really make
it work and at least to satisfy all my questions would be to work with the new owners of
the Great Wall, figure out the access, figure out this backage road, how it's going to work.
I'm actually of the opinion -- like I hate the idea of just closing it and just making emergency
access. I think the answer in this situation is more connectivity and more outlets for traffic
and not less, but I would just need to see that flushed out more. So, I hate to -- I don't
love the idea of totally shutting the door on it. I don't also love continuing things for a long
time period. So, I get where Council Member -- Council President Bernt is coming from.
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Yeah. I mean my -- you know, again, a lot of detailed questions, but there is a good
reason for that, because it's not going to come back before us. You know, I -- I get some
of my fellow Council Members' points about, you know, ultimately we have zoned this a
certain way for a reason. You know, at the same time, you know, I kind of question is,
you know, storage really like what I would love to see there; right? Like another giant
storage facility -- like the highest use of this property in Meridian; right? Like -- or just a
drive-through restaurant? Like that's not -- like this could be beautiful. I mean I think you
are -- I like what you are doing with it. I think you are orienting it toward young
professionals. I think there is a need for that type of housing. I could definitely see this
working, but it would have to be a lot more flushed out with the access and I think it would
have to -- there is -- it's just too complicated with the amount going on in this area of the
city. I think there is an order you have to go in. I think the Great Wall and you guys need
to work together. They would need to go first. We get through that plan, you know,
together and if it -- if it was all coordinated there is a way to do that, but -- yeah. I mean I
will kind of-- you know, I would defer to the applicant what they want -- if they want an up
or down vote I would vote no tonight. If it was keeping it open to flush it out more with,
you know, other property owners in the area I would definitely be open to that.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Along those lines of Council Woman Strader, you know, I agree with her
comments, you know, storage, really? And -- and it's a nice storage. Very nice storage.
Yeah. But, you know, this is -- this is mixed use regional and, you know, housing is
encouraged. Staff is recommending approval, because of the --for--for the development
agreement modification and my question for staff, for legal, I guess, is, you know, Ms.
Butler, you know, talked about in the DA provisions on page nine of the staff report, item
six, number four, about the cross-access easement and proposed some other language.
That may work, but I don't know. But we can't get to that point unless we do this step
here, but what I -- what I need to know from -- from staff is the fact that can you get
somewhere if we take that next step, go to the CUP, or is it still going to swirl? Is that --
is the cross-access the issues that we have been talking about -- because I am -- I am
intrigued by that proposal. If that's going to be residential and you have that access to
and from East River Valley and through the -- their other phases that might work. But,
then, it's not true cross-access, but a lot of places do have gaps where it's not continued.
You would have the commercial portion coming all the way from Ustick Road down to
Great Wall and that's quite a stretch, so -- but I don't know if that's the appropriate place
to consider things like that, item number four, in the -- in the conditional use process,
Sonya or Bill. I would like your thoughts on that.
Allen: Mr. Mayor, Councilman Hoaglun, I believe it's appropriate to consider as part of
the conditional use permit -- permit process. Mr. Nary, do you have any other thoughts?
Nary: I mean I agree. I mean part of it is going to have to be handled through the
conditional use process once we get to the use that you are comfortable allowing. What
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I'm hearing -- and, again, this is a modification of the development agreement, so this is
entitled property. They have a DAwith conditions to build a commercial unit there, storage
and commercial with a drive-through. So, what I'm hearing the Council say, if -- if the
direction this Council would like to go is to deny this request, it -- what I heard was, one,
that the Council wasn't convinced that this isn't a viable property for commercial use --
not a residential commercial use, but a pure commercial use. The adequacy of access
has not been flushed out with the property to the north and that the access to River Valley
and out to Eagle Road through the northern property hasn't been defined well enough at
this point, that there is limitations, that the alternative that was proposed as a potential of
emergency access only was actually less desired, because it limits the access, but
because these are drive aisles and not -- not necessarily backage roads, it's, again, not
flushed out on how that will be functioned, how that will be used, how that will be used for
parking, access, uses within both this property, as well as both to the north and the south.
Those are all the variety of things I have heard that were concerns that can't seem to be
addressed through this application or through the testimony you have heard in both
hearings. So, if that's the case, then, that would need to be part of your motion, that that's
why you are -- would be denying this project, because all of those things have not been
satisfied to you versus -- as you know, I just want to avoid us saying we just don't like it.
You don't like it for those reasons is what I heard and if there is others, then, certainly you
should probably include them. But those are the primary ones I heard. Because, you are
right, I don't think we can solve some of these things -- some of it just by our code until
we do a revisit, if that's what you would like to do. It is going to be a CUP, not part of a
DA modification.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Just to follow up with a question to Mr. Nary. However, it doesn't get to a point
you raised that I think is -- is relevant is the DA modification of phase one and two.
Nary: Yes.
Hoaglun: And is that something that can be addressed at the CUP level or is that a
completely separate process?
Nary: So, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Hoaglun, no, that would
not be a CUP process. So, what the applicant proposed was -- was committing to an
easement to allow -- since they own the property they can grant an easement, which is
true. As I stated before, that only grants an individual person's right to access. So, they
would have to enforce that on their own. If the desire is to create a joint unit that has free
access between all the phases of the development, then, it would be required to amend
the development agreement for River Valley one and two. If the Council wanted to put a
condition in this development agreement that says prior to final CO -- and we would have
to determine what that point would be -- an application -- or they will have completed a
DA modification of River Valley one and two before final CO can be issued, that would be
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your way to at least guard that particular piece. The other one, though, again, I don't think
the DA is the tool. I think you are right, if those concerns exist this is too early. It's
premature, because it isn't worked out with the other adjacent property owners and -- and,
frankly, the road isn't there. I mean it doesn't exist yet and it won't, but it's not even
planned yet for north of this piece. So, right now it will stop at the -- at the Great Wall
piece today. So, I mean those conditions can't be satisfied through this.
Simison: So, for those scoring at home, looking for either a motion to close the public
hearing or a motion to continue. Either one will do.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: I agree with Council Woman Strader. I'm not at the comfort level to -- to
approve this this evening, but I -- I also don't believe we should completely close -- that
we should completely deny the application. What that looks like as far as continuing -- if
we need to hear from the applicant, but I really want to make sure that we give them some
direct guidance and/or at least hear from them that they understand the concerns and
potential process they are going to take to solve this.
Whallon: Mayor Simison, Council Woman Perreault, I hear you very clearly and I'm very
grateful that you are willing to consider our ability to meet your desire to understand fully
what the -- what the project will be like and so we have homework to go back and look at
our drive aisles. What are our widths in the existing? How have we done with the
children? Have there been any incidents with the children there? Have we provided
enough play area? You know, what else are we going to do in phase three and the drive
aisle alignment? How will that safely convey vehicles north and south and how will that
interact with the parking configuration. I haven't seen, you know, a site plan generated
yet showing that, because, you know, I think they were waiting for this approval before
they got into that level of detail. This was conceptual. So, conceptually we are not there.
So, we have a lot more work to do to understand the alignment of that drive aisle, the
width of that drive aisle, how it interplays with the parking, you know, to what extent I --
think that the drawing that we have here shows it lining up with an existing access on the
west side of Eagle Road, so -- and it's meeting the -- the half mile -- I think it's the half
mile that ITD allows access to North Eagle Road. So, aligning it to the existing one on
the west side of Eagle Road is where that access point is going to land. We can work
with Ms. Butler and the new owner of the Great Wall property to see how they are going
to develop that. What site plan changes are they proposing? And, then, it goes to the
property owner to the north of that that's currently going through the process of putting
the slough in culverts and, then, they will formulate their road and utility plans and we will
see how that ties in, so -- so that it's functional and it works and it's safe. So, I think that
we need to go beyond the conceptual plan, we need to invest a little bit of money to further
flush these things out, these configurations, so that we know exactly what we are
proposing that will be there for the next 75 to 100 years.
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Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Just to like really be brutally honest, given the hour, like for me I think -- don't
come back unless you have got a road. Like unless you can deliver a road that goes from
Eagle Road -- you have a deal with the property owner to the far north and Great Wall,
you can tell us what that looks like and how it works for the traffic flow and all the elements
that you just mentioned. Just -- and I hate being like that, because I try to be so much
more polite usually, but I just want to be really clear. Like for me that's the bar. So,
would say that should probably take months and I would love to hear -- you know, do you
want a continuance for a long time period? Do you want an open -- I don't know if we
even do an open continuance and, then, let Planning know when you feel like you have
that ironed out? How do you kind of want to handle that from a time frame perspective?
But I just wanted to like lay out --just being really honest, like you have to deliver a road.
Whallon: Mayor Simison, Council Woman Strader, it was our discussion with Caleb Hood
that when we were talking about our road and the question of when the Great Wall was
going to tie into our road and they would lose their primary access or existing temporary
access to North Eagle Road, that's when Caleb said, hey, look we are looking for this to
be a backage road and we expect it on the back of all of the parcels and we don't want to
see it, as was mentioned, be -- be more restrictive and cutting off access points. So, we
were always under the impression that that was going to be a requirement of staff through
the conditional use permit process that there was a fully developed road through our
property that would connect to the north, whether they built before us or after us. So, it's
always been our expectation that there would be a road back there, but we can go and
we can go -- across our property tying into our neighbor's property. But we can go in and
investigate what that site plan looks like and draw it out and show something tangible with
the road back there that's going to start at East River Valley Street and go north.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Could you give -- can you give a little -- at least from your perspective -- we say
road, you are talking curb, gutter, sidewalk or are you talking what exists in the northern
commercial property where you have no cars backing into the space with essentially
protected planting strips? Big difference between a width and expectation, Just so that
they can hear your perspective.
Strader: Yeah. No. So, like I -- I'm looking for a really macro level solution, not just that
-- you have a concept of what your piece of the road will look like. I would like to see
either that you have an agreement with those two property owners and you all have come
up with a concept and what that concept is or that they have already come before us and
so we have approved a concept plan that they have brought. It's got to be -- to me has
to be coordinated and I understand there is a constraint around -- I don't think I need to
know like exactly what your sidewalk looks like, for example, but it's got to be -- I don't --
I need a high level -- I need to know when I -- when we approve this that in 2023 that that
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road will be built all the way from the north property where there is the slough all the way
down here to me, just because of the traffic and flow concerns.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Just a comment. One of my concerns, though, is with property owners to the
north have already expressed -- we don't want that road to go through. I mean that puts
them in a very difficult position and as we continue this discussion I keep thinking maybe
it is to approve the DA and get it to the CUP process and have that fight happen and let
the chips fall where they may and -- because I don't know how it's going to be resolved if
--just by having the continued discussions without having them have any leverage in the
game and I -- but, you know, I can be swayed on that, but I -- I'm just trying to figure a
way forward. I don't want to have this thing killed because there is viability here, it's just
how do we resolve some of these things and what's the path to do that?
Nary: Mr. Mayor? Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council -- and, Sonya, you have absolute
free rein to correct me if I mistake the process. So, right now what the applicant has
applied for and paid for is a modified -- a modification to the development agreement.
That's about 550 bucks. And the cost of that is based on a very overview by Planning
does the -- does the DA that exists and the requests that we want fit within our code. So,
that's why this report is fairly short. The analysis is fairly small, because we are really
looking at a fairly narrow window and the rest of the cost of it is the cost of actually the
process of notice advertising and the cost of preparing a development agreement by my
office. That's what the -- that's what they paid for. That's what the staff analysis is. What
all of you are asking for actually is like almost a full blown application. So, when you
make a CUP request that cost is about 12, 13, 14 hundred bucks. That's because there
is notices, it goes to Planning and Zoning, there is a full complete analysis by staff on
code and how this fits and all of the things that you all are talking about, that's where that's
done. So, it's okay if you want to continue this that's within your purview, but understand
that now you are really asking staff to review that no one has paid for any of that. That
really is staff time to come up with a full analysis for a DA mod that, then, has to be redone
again or at least looked at again under the CUP rubric, does it fit the CUP. So, that's kind
of our process and so that's what concerns me, because I think what Council Member
Hoaglun said is right on the money, what you are asking is going to get reviewed. This
isn't the place where it does. If you allow them to do -- if the direction is to allow them to
do this, all of that will be analyzed, reviewed, brought forward, Planning, they may have
requested to deny it, they may say it doesn't meet the standard, they may say the road
should go through, it doesn't go through, the north will not -- whatever it is, it will all be
done, but this isn't the process that does it and that's why I understand your frustration,
because you are wanting that to be done now and that isn't what they applied for and that
isn't what was reviewed by anybody. So, that's why you are missing these pieces. But I
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don't have an answer to the chicken and egg that you are -- that you are concerned with,
because that's really where we are.
Simison: Well -- and just to get -- I don't know whether it's the chicken and the egg, but I
think the Council has been making the comments that sometimes things just aren't ready.
Bernt: Right.
Simison: And we can go back to the Council that first approved the Great Wall several
years ago to start this domino of challenges in this area where we tried to allow someone
to do something that the area probably wasn't really ready for, that is creating a continuing
effort and while I agree from a process standpoint we are chicken and the egg, I don't
know that from a practical standpoint it's chicken and egg, I think there is -- maybe these
parcels aren't ready to have a full blown decision made upon them. They may be --
instead of being the first two that went into this, maybe they should have been the last
two to get any entitlements to allow the rest of the area to figure out what it's going to
develop with. I don't know personally. But that to me is as much of the question is now
the right time to make a decision on these or is it to deny it and let the other ones come
forward and, then, make a decision afterwards. There is cross-access. I know one of the
-- that JoAnn talked about the -- they don't want it, but it exists and, honestly, I don't know
how a roadway will work through there with how they have their parking lot laid out. I
really don't when I look at it. I think you are going to have people backing up into a
roadway. What's going to have to happen? Is that okay? I don't know. But maybe -- you
know, my personal thing is now is not the time to make a change in direction absent other
information in my opinion and that information just will come at some time and when --
we don't know when. We don't control that.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: I have been watching our wonderful planner Sonya make presentations for
five years and I can almost read her face now and she's over there thinking we are asking
all these questions that aren't related to this project and I know we are. Like Council
Woman Strader said, we will not get another opportunity to review this and so my
expectation as a Council Member is that our Planning and Zoning Commission, who
serves at our -- at our will and our request, have this information for their decision. So,
whether it's done for us or if it's done for them, the information that's being requested still
needs to be provided and one -- one point of clarification on that. As far as -- as far as
the discussion regarding the number of children, it has nothing to do with their safety, it
has nothing to do with the amenities, it has to do with the school district and whether the
-- it's an accurate analysis of the amount of children that will be a part of the district. I
don't -- I don't -- I'm not worried about whether their kids -- the pool is big enough. I just
wanted to clarify that in the comments that you were making. My expectation is that the
-- the items that we have requested, when there is a CUP application in front of our
Planning and Zoning Commission, that those items be provided to our Planning and
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Zoning Commission, because that's the information that needs to have -- that -- that
needs to exist and you have the opportunity and -- you have the great opportunity to sit
before us and have these requests made and have those ready and be prepared for them
for your CUP with the Planning and Zoning Commission. Not a lot of applicants get that
opportunity. So, take all that information, please, and use it to your advantage as you get
that CUP heard by our Planning and Zoning Commission. However, this decision goes
this evening.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Yeah. I personally don't want to move forward on the CUP process until -- until
it's ironed out a bit more. So, I'm -- if I -- if I have to choose what side it sounds like I will
probably be on a denial at this point and if the project changes and they have more
information they can come before us again. But, you know, if it's -- if -- if the will of the
Council is not a long-term continuance for them to work with the other property owners to
come back and instead it's like moving forward on the CUP, I'm not -- I'm not there on that
one. I would rather continue it long term while the property owners work it out orjust deny
it and they can come back again if they modify it.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Or not.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor, to that point. I have questions of Bill or Sonya, the process. If we
deny it they have -- they can't come back for one year; is that correct? Or what -- oh,
okay.
Nary: Yeah. That doesn't apply to development agreements.
Allen: So sorry, Dean.
Hoaglun: Okay. For a DA--
Allen: Your question to respond that only-- the year only applies with the preliminary plat.
Hoaglun: Okay. Good.
Allen: Not a development agreement modification.
Hoaglun: So, that -- that could come back anytime in the future if it's denied. The other
option is they could decide to withdraw and wait to an appropriate time to -- to bring it
back? Is that an option?
Allen: They could. I don't know that it gets them anywhere.
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Hoaglun: Okay.
Allen: I mean the application still dies. Just keep in mind if you -- all great points, by the
way, made tonight. You know, Bill pretty much seconded in more detail what I tried to say
earlier, more succinctly about the details, but, you know, all great concerns that have been
brought out here tonight and things that you should be thinking about with a --with a land
use change like this, but if we deny this application tonight they still have entitlements to
develop this site as a storage facility. So, bottom line I guess, you know, something that's
important for your consideration and your decision is whether or not you would like to see
the property develop with a storage facility or a multi-family development. I mean that's
-- that's what it boils down to at this point. Thank you.
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: So, I -- I really appreciate the dialogue that -- that's been made. At the end of the
day we just need to make a decision on what's -- what's in front of us and I know that we
all have great hearts and we all have -- you know, we don't want to cause extra expense,
whatever the case may be, for those who stand before us. But I -- I -- I think it's really
important that we make a decision this evening and that we make a decision to not
continue this project, that we either approve it or deny it and so I -- I know your comments
are spot on. I agree with you one hundred percent. I have already stated how I feel. We
can kick this can down the road all night long, but at the end of the day we need to make
a decision tonight and -- and I guess that's where I stand.
Simison: So, with that do I have motions to move through -- nothing is prejudicial that's
tonight based on what we have heard to delay or otherwise.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: I move that we close the public hearing for H-2021-0059.
Perreault: Second.
Strader: Second.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. Is there any
discussion? If not, all in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay? The ayes have it
and the public hearing is closed.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. TWO ABSENT.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor, I will kick this off and --
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
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Hoaglun: -- it may not go anywhere, but we will -- we will start the process. Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: After considering all staff, applicant, and public testimony, I move to approve
file number H-2021-0059 as presented in the staff report for hearing date of November
30th, 2021, and that staff consider special -- pay special attention to the provisions in Item
6, No. 4, and the potential of the modifications regarding phase one and phase two and
that process.
Simison: Motion dies for lack of a second.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: I will give it a try. After considering all staff, applicant, and public testimony, I
move to deny file number H-2021-0059 as presented in the hearing on today's date for
the following reasons: We don't have adequacy of access flushed out with some of the
contiguous properties to the north. The issues with traffic and parking and the associated
circulation of traffic have not been fully flushed out and, in addition, I don't think it's the --
it's the right time for the city to change the current zoning on this property.
Bernt: Second.
Simison: I have a motion and a second. Is there any discussion?
Allen: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Yes.
Allen: Excuse me. Can I clarify? This is not a zoning for tonight --
Simison: Correct.
Allen: -- this is a development agreement modification.
Simison: This is a development agreement modification.
Allen: Thank you.
Simison: Second concur?
Strader: The motion maker concurs.
Bernt: Yes, I definitely one hundred percent concur.
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Simison: Discussion on the motion?
Simison: Yeah. Mr. Mayor, I will support this motion. I mean there are issues that we
have talked about that I agree with that -- that need to be explored. I still would like to
see those being explored at the different level, but the issues are there nonetheless. So,
those are things that need to be worked out, so despite my attempt at moving it to the
other -- next level, I'm still in support of the reasons for -- for this motion.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: I just want to make one more comment. For me this is not necessarily a no,
it's an -- but it's definitely a not yet. So, I just want to make that clear, if it hasn't been
made clear on my part, so --
Nary: If I could just add one point to Council Member Strader -- sorry.
Simison: Yes, Mr. Nary.
Nary: There we go. Just one point. So, as Sonya indicated, it's not a zone change, but
it a huge change and so as part of your motion -- if you are not comfortable with the use
change at this time, that -- that that was the basis.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: That's what I meant. It's part of the reason. It's not the whole reason, but I -- I
just want to reiterate something which -- for the applicant, which is I'm glad the door is not
closed for a full year. You're certainly welcome to come back if you can really flush these
issues out. But I think you understand the -- the level you would have to meet to really
deliver that, hopefully, through our comments. Thanks.
Simison: Any further comments? If not, Clerk will call the roll.
Roll call: Borton, absent; Cavener, absent; Bernt, yea; Perreault, aye; Hoaglun, yea;
Strader, yea.
Simison: All ayes. Motion carries and the item is denied.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. TWO ABSENT.
FUTURE MEETING TOPICS
Simison: With that, future meeting topics, Council? Then do I have a motion to adjourn?
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Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: I move that we adjourn.
Simison: Motion to adjourn. All in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed Nay? The ayes
have it. We are adjourned.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. TWO ABSENT.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 10:24 P.M.
(AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
MAYOR ROBERT E. SIMISON 12-14-2021
ATTEST:
CHRIS JOHNSON - CITY CLERK
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