Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAboutFebruary 14, 2006 C/C Minutes !o .. Meridian City Council February 14, 2006 Page 21 of 56 Bird: I think there is a time element on it. De Weerd: It has to be signed before next week? Bird: I think it was something like February 13th, if you want to know the truth, and that's went by. Johnson: I'm not seeing any dates, but I can't -- and Chief Anderson didn't tell me of any, but I know that they are wanting it back as soon as they can, so they can get their mobilization list built and stuff before the fire season does hit. Wardle: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Wardle. Wardle: I would say that, certainly, the motion to me seems fine. If the Mayor finds that there are additional issues, she cannot sign the agreement and, obviously, bring it back and we will put it on the agenda next week for discussion. De Weerd: Okay. I feel comfortable with that. Mr. Nary, I guess if there are serious concerns we can bring this back to Council next week and -- Nary: Certainly. De Weerd: Okay. Okay. We do have a motion on the floor. I will ask Mr. Berg to, please, call roll. Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Borton, yea. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 8: Items Moved from Consent Agenda: De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. There were no items moved from the Consent Agenda. Item 9. Discussion of Deeding Messina Meadows Park to City of Meridian by Westpark Development: De Weerd: Item No.9 is discussion of deeding Messina Meadows Park to the City of Meridian by Westpark Development. I guess, Mr. Strong or Mr. Nary? Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I wasn't here -- I think this came up sort of on the fly last week was what I had understood. I don't know if anybody talked to Westpark and asked them to be present tonight. Berg: Yes. I Meridian City Council February 14, 2006 Page 22 of 56 Nary: Oh, there is somebody here. Okay. De Weerd: Okay. Wardle: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Wardle. Wardle: I guess just from an agenda item, it was an issue that had come up from the applicant's request. We have heard this issue a number of times. They re-requested an audience before the Council and that's why you see it on No.9. De Weerd: Okay. Would you like to come forward? Please state your name and address for the record. Neiffinger: Trent Neiffinger. 1240 West Barrymore, Meridian, Idaho. 83642. De Weerd: Thank you. Mr. Johnson had requested that this -- a decision be made on the park donation and so we just put this on the agenda. Do you have any additional information to present to Councilor -- Neiffinger: I do not. I have something I sent last week over. It's a donation versus reimbursement sheet. I don't know if you guys have that still. De Weerd: I didn't notice it in our packet. Neiffinger: I have one here if you would like to look at it. De Weerd: Can you, please, give that to the city clerk. Neiffinger: You bet. Wardle: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes. Wardle: This is in your final plat item. If you look under -- at the bottom there, final plat, comments, e-mail from Trent is the document. De Weerd: Okay. Wardle: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Wardle. I Meridian City Council February 14, 2006 Page 23 of 56 Wardle: I guess maybe just to kick it off, my recollection of this project was when I understood we last left this was not what the cost to develop the park would be or reimbursement was, but was whether it was a suitable park for the city to take over, given some of the issues that we brought up in past conversations. So, if someone else has a different recollection, let me know. Rountree: That's my recollection that the question was, were we going to get a park or a maintenance headache. Bird: And that was mine, too. De Weerd: Council, I believe there were a couple of items, though, that we did ask of the developer in distinguishing what the donation. actually was, what would be the additional considerations in what wasn't covered that we saw the pictures, such as the trees and parking and that sort of thing. The document that you have on your screen in front of you is the donation value of what the developer appears to be willing to do as part of the donation and what would remain in developing the park to be a city amenity and that would be the -- the additional information in front of you as well. Borton: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Borton. Borton: Trent, as a new guy can you give me the thumbnail sketch of what happened to this property, if anything different, that the city is not maintaining it and it's just maintained by the homeowners association? Neiffinger: So, if we don't deed it to you, what will happen to it is what you're asking? We will probably continue to make it a park. I think what we will do is move the community pool that we have in a different location inside of the subdivision into the park area, so we can free up a building lot. But we will probably build it pretty much the same, minus a few things. Probably the bathroom and the baseball backstop, things like that. Just minor things that for us, for just a neighborhood park, we don't see as being something we would spend money on, but if it's something that we would donate to the city we would be more than willing to build the bathroom. The bathroom building is 125,000 dollars. We would be willing to do that if the city was willing to take it and maintain it. Borton: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Borton. Borton: You would be reimbursed for that bathroom expense, though? I mean the city would be paying for the bathroom. Meridian City Council February 14, 2006 Page 24 of 56 Neiffinger: We would pay for it up front, yes, and, then, we would ask for reimbursement of it. Borton: So, other than a baseball backstop, it would be more or less the same? Neiffinger: I think so. Yes. Be very similar. We would continue to have a parking lot, because of the swimming pool and the playground. We would plan on doing that, along with the swing set. De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions, Council? Okay. Thank you. Neiffinger: Thank you. De Weerd: Mr. Strong, do you have anything you would like to add? Strong: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, just as a way to recall what we last discussed about this park, there was concern expressed about the maintenance of the park. If it's -- if we build the park it would be built to city specifications and we expressed at that time that we didn't have any particular concerns with the ability to maintain it in the same fashion we maintain other city parks. There was a question about the donation value versus what the city would be paying out in impact fees. The restroom building that's shown is, essentially -- it's building the same restroom that we build in neighborhood parks now, that we will be starting construction on in Champion Park within a few weeks. So, it's the same design specification, using, actually, the same -- the same engineering documents that we use -- that we'd modify if it from the restroom we build at Champion Park. So, we know that the cost is pretty solid for what they are showing there for those -- those pieces of construction that would be left to the city. So, as we expressed last time, we don't have any particular concerns about maintaining the park if the city should assume it. De Weerd: Okay. Strong: It will be built, essentially, the same as we build other neighborhood parks. De Weerd: Thank you, Doug. Any questions for Mr. Strong? Borton: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Borton. Borton: Doug, just one question. Can you tell me a little bit about the differences or opportunities available to the city or loss to the city with this park as far as the ability to use it for city rec activities, baseball programs, other activities, it's a city park you can maintain and control and utilize it versus with homeowners you couldn't? Meridian City Council February 14, 2006 Page 25 of 56 Strong: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, and Councilman Borton, when it's in city -- city ownership we certainly can reserve the shelter for different city functions. Anybody in the city could reserve a shelter there, just like any of our other parks. They can reserve the play fields for practice for soccer or baseball, and if they want to know that they have a secure time to use the field they can do that online through our office. So, it would be, essentially, managed like any other city park that we have currently in our inventory. Currently south of the freeway -- and it's one of the attractions to this park or any park opportunity we have south of the freeway, we have -- we have Bear Creek Park and the Kiwanis neighborhood park that we are building next to Mountain View High School and that's, essentially, the acreage we have south of the freeway right now. So, that is an area of growth that there is certainly an advantage to gaining more city park space south of the freeway. De Weerd: Well, I guess, Doug, to elaborate on that, as a neighborhood park what population will this park serve, other than the houses in that vicinity, and Messina probably Village and Meadows? Strong: Well, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, typically a neighborhood park by design and what's described in our Comprehensive Plan is to serve a mile square radius of that neighborhood park primarily. So, it's located in the neighborhood, it certainly would serve that neighborhood very well, because that -- it's about a mile -- it's located right in the center of the neighborhood. It will reach out to Eagle Road and south. So, as it develops south of the freeway it certainly can extend beyond that mile radius. Just as an example, we have an increasing request for lacrosse fields, because currently in the Meridian School District lacrosse is not a sanctioned high school sport, so they can't use high school fields for the practice or games, so they are coming to us looking for space for lacrosse. And certainly in a park this size you can fit a lacrosse field in there for their games or practice. They are currently using the field at Chateau Park for lacrosse practice and games and schedule for that. We have a request from the Mountain View High School lacrosse team for a place to play lacrosse. They typically prefer to stay south of the freeway when they are looking for field space. The closest we would have for them when it's complete by some time next September would be the neighborhood park in Kiwanis Park, but geographically -- De Weerd: Since it's right next door that makes sense. Strong: It's right next door. Rather than going to Chateau Park, which we could provide them now, which would be the one space right now that we could provide for them to play. So, it would serve the geography south of the freeway, I guess, is the most condensed answer to that. Crossing the freeway seems to be somewhat of a barrier for people looking for play fields. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Bird. " Meridian City Council February 14, 2006 Page 26 of 56 Bird: Doug, this sits back in the -- if I recall, it sits back in the middle of the subdivision; am I not right? How many acres was it? Refresh my memory. Rountree: 8.9. Strong: It's about eight, I think. It's changed a little bit, because of the -- they are not tiling that irrigation ditch that goes through it. But that was the proposal that came to you last -- Bird: You know, you say it's nice to use as a field and everything, but do we really want to create that many more car trips through a subdivision? You know, one of the biggest complaints we get is traffic through subdivisions and stuff and you start using it -- the other thing I -- reason on a city park is the location. How many average citizens is going to know where it's at? You know, our parks -- Settler's, Chateau, Tully, all them parks -- Storey -- is by a major road that you can see from a major road and I'm kind of like the Mayor, I think this park will be a beautiful neighborhood park and that's what it should stay is a neighborhood park. That's my opinion. Strong: Excuse me, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, and Councilman Bird, we do have neighborhood parks that aren't on major roads and, actually, the park that we are building, Season's Park right now, is off Black Cat back in the neighborhood. Chateau Park is certainly not on Ten Mile, it's off Ten Mile on Chateau Street, which is a good collector street to get there. So, neighborhood parks typically are located off the major arterials in town and that's the way they are described in our Comprehensive Plan. Parks like Tully and Bear Creek are located on major roads and because they serve a more active type of participation at the park and they have ball -- baseball fields and skate parks and things like that that attract more activity. So, the neighborhood parks are typically used by the neighborhood and the comparison I like to use is Chateau Park versus Tully Park, because I live right in between them and on any given day I can drive to Chateau and see a much different level of activity than at Tully. Tully is much busier. So, that's the best comparison we have right now. De Weerd: And I think Champion Park is not visible from the roadway either. Strong: It's not and -- it's open on two sides and fenced on two sides as well. A very typical neighborhood park design. De Weerd: Okay. Any further questions? Bird: I have none. De Weerd: Thank you, Doug. Okay. Council, do you need any further information? Okay. Do you have any direction on this item? Wardle: Madam Mayor? * Meridian City Council February 14, 2006 Page 27 of 56 De Weerd: Mr. Wardle. Wardle: After gathering additional information and recalling our past conversations, I certainly -- the value of the park in dollars was never in question to me or the generosity of the developer to be willing to give that to the community was never in question. Certainly, that was never a consideration that I considered. My question was whether this is a good city park for the community in Meridian and as I remember our consensus was at that time we didn't feel it was and I guess this additional information hasn't changed my mind to that respect. Bird: Is that your motion? De Weerd: Any other discussion? Bird: I have none. I've made my statement. De Weerd: Okay. Borton: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Borton. Borton: For what it's worth, I might be in the -- not having gone through this last summer, I understand the location and situation is not ideal. I understand that additional obligations are imposed on the city by receiving it, but I think Doug's comments, from my perspective, are well taken when we talk about what neighborhood parks -- other neighborhood parks are available here in the community, not all of them being on arterials. I think it's a fine line to draw exactly how accessible an individual neighborhood park must be to be acceptable to the city. I think any opportunity the city gets to obtain dominion and control over some park land, especially in this location, is a good one and a tough one to pass up as the city grows in this area and the recreational opportunities and demands continue to grow, I think it's, all things considered, an asset to the city and I think it's, from my perspective, something that we should accept and agree to and take every advantage and let the community know that it's an additional opportunity for them to recreate and utilize it as we go forward for the next many many years. I think it's a chance we will wish we would have taken. I think it's something we should accept. Those are my thoughts. De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Borton. Rountree: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Rountree. Rountree: I have probably been the hardest councilman on this particular project to -- in the past in terms of is it really going to be an asset to the city. My issue initially was that I Meridian City Council February 14, 2006 Page 28 of 56 there was really little development of the drainage and we have gone from, essentially, no thought about the drainage to a pathway to tiling the drainage and now we have a concept that appears to turn the drainage facility into kind of an area amenity, as well as a parkway. I'm still uncertain, because I do not have, based on the information we have today, how much usable land there is for park activity. I still am concerned about -- it appears the City of Meridian is being put into a position to maintain the entrance to a subdivision. If I can be assured that the usage acreages of this park is somewhere in the seven and eight acres, I think sufficient hearing and learning has been done on the part of the applicant to sway me to accept this particular park, but I need -- I need that -- we don't have that information here tonight. We have a statement of 8.9 acres. We have what we typically get that's scanned in that you can't read for a plan view of the park. I heard mention of a swimming pool, but, as I recall, that's in another part of the subdivision. So, I guess I'm moving to be inclined that maybe we have got something here, but I want to see the plan view finally. I want to see a better detail of what, in fact, they are going to do with the drainage facility and if, in fact, it does represent the kind of things we have talked to the applicant about in the past, I would probably move from my previous position. So, I guess I'm saying I'd like a little bit more information. De Weerd: And I think that's very reasonable for the developer to bring back a picture and show the pieces and components in here they say they will construct and with the city's portion will be. A little bit detail. Lieutenant Overton, did you have a comment as well? Overton: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I have a concern and I don't know if you have the answers to this or not. With a park that's no longer a community park, but a city park comes cars. I'm not as worried about the trips into the subdivision as I am the parking, which we deal with continually when a park is designed -- a community park is designed for people generally to walk to. If we make it a city park -- I don't know if you have that information in front of you -- what kind of parking facility is there or are we going to be dealing with parking issues in that subdivision when they hold an event there. I just wanted to put that out in front of you. De Weerd: Yes. Would the applicant like to respond? Neiffinger: There is a parking facility there. Is there a picture that came with that -- that document? De Weerd: It's really bad. Rountree: You can't tell. Neiffinger: Okay. Well, there is a parking facility -- I believe it's somewhere between eight and 12 parking stalls, which isn't a lot, but there is approved parking all along the street that the parking lot is on. I don't know if that resolves any concern for you, but I think there is ample parking there. I did a quick calculation on the usable area of the park and the drain -- actually, it's not a drain, it's a canal, I guess. It is 1,755 feet long .1 Meridian City Council February 14, 2006 Page 29 of 56 and it would be approximately 12 feet wide. And if you calculate that, that's about almost a half an acre. So, if we take a half an acre out of our 8.9, we still have 8.4 acres of usable space around the park. We will also -- if we leave the canal open, we plan on paving to the north of that, so the walkway inside of the park is continuous all the way around. If it's -- if we have to fence the canal, we probably will not pave the area to the north of the canal. So, I don't know if that helps out any, but that would be our usable acreage. And, then, we feel like the parking would be adequate on the street. There is a main collector that is -- well, it's not a main collector, but it is, I guess, a collector street that goes next to the park where the parking lot -- it abuts to it. So, there would be eight spaces in there and, then, additional parking along the side that would be ample for a soccer game or a lacrosse game. De Weerd: Would you be able to come back again next week-- Neiffinger: Sure. De Weerd: -- and present a better visual and -- I think, too, there was a question as to is any of this park at the park part of your storm water drainage or retention area and how would it look and those kinds of things as well. I think that was part of it. Would like to see a landscaping plan. It does say that plant material is part of this. If you could just provide a little bit more information and for Councilmember Borton's consideration, since he wasn't part of this original application, it just would be nice maybe to have some materials that could give a visual to it. Neiffinger: Okay. De Weerd: In addition to addressing any -- I think that the concern was an entrance from Messina Village into Messina Meadows and that this would have something to do with that. The traffic considerations. The on-street parking. How many spots that that would add to it and what kind of traffic patterns it would add into that collector into the subdivision. Those -- those seem to be concerns that it would be nice to see a visual to gain additional information as well. Neiffinger: Okay. De Weerd: Any other pieces that I missed? Mr. Wardle. Wardle: Madam Mayor, if you would just allow the clerk and I and legal counsel to look at our agendas. We did move a number of meetings -- a number of projects to the 21 st. So, maybe the 28th, if that's okay with the applicant. Neiffinger: That's fine with me. I'm new at the game, so I believe that we have final plat approval, so this isn't going to hold up our final plat and as long as that's the case, then, we can wait two weeks, I believe. That would be fine. Nary: Madam Mayor? ". Meridian City Council February 14, 2006 Page 30 of 56 De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Nary. Nary: Councilmember Wardle is correct, your agenda next week is fairly heavy. Your 28th, although you have a pre-council meeting on the 28th, the regular agenda meeting isn't very heavy, comparatively. So, that might be better to wait two weeks. De Weerd: We can look at our Council agenda meeting on Friday and see how things fall out and Mr. Berg can, then, notify the applicant. Okay? Neiffinger: Thank you. Item 10: Tabled from January 24,2006: Resolution No. 06-504 Approving and Adopting Fees for Public Use of the Meridian Police Department Conference Room: De Weerd: Okay. Item 10 was tabled from January 24th. Resolution 06-504. Okay. Was there some remaining issues on this, Mr. Nary? Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, if you recall, you had asked us to amend some of the wording in the resolution. The resolution is on your computers in front of you. Section two is the portion that we amended from the Public Hearing discussion that you had. We did run this by the police chief. He was comfortable with the language. It was just to be able to give the chief some discretion in waiving all or a portion of the fees for organizations or for nonprofits or for other things, some occasions where we have circumstances where we have to bump a group out of that -- out of using this room, which has no charge, and moving to a room, because your needs or a different commission's needs, we wouldn't charge them a fee in those cîrcumstances, and it was just to give them that flexibility. If the language is satisfactory to you, you can approve the resolution, and if you want us to work on that a little bit more we can certainly do that. De Weerd: Okay. Council, any questions or issues on what is in front of you? Okay. If none, do I have a motion? Wardle: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Wardle. Wardle: I move that we approve Item No.1 0, Resolution 06-504. Borton: Second. De Weerd: Okay. Motion is to approve Item 10. Mr. Berg, will you, please, call roll. Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Borton, yea.