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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2006 01-24 M!!:!Qjan Citv Counc~ina Januarv 24. 2006 The regular meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 7:03 P.M., Tuesday, January 24,2006, by Mayor Tammy de Weerd. Members Present: Mayor Tammy de Weerd, Shaun Wardle, Keith Bird, Charlie Rountree and Joe Borton. Others Present: Bill Nary, Will Berg, Anna Canning, Len Grady, Bill Musser, Ron Anderson, Brad Watson, Doug Strong and Dean Willis. Item 1: Roll-call Attendance: Roll call. X Shaun Wardle X Charlie Rountree X X Joe Borton X Keith Bird Mayor Tammy de Weerd De Weerd: I will go ahead and call the meeting to order. It is Tuesday, January 24th, just a little bit after 7:00. I'd like to welcome you here this morning. This morning. This evening. Whenever it is. Tonight. We will begin with roll call attendance. Mr. Berg. Item 2: Pledge of Allegiance: De Weerd: Item No.2 is the pledge of allegiance. If you will all rise and join us in the pledge. (Pledge of allegiance recited.) Item 3: Community Invocation by Pastor Steve Moore, with Cherry Lane Christian Church: De Weerd: Thank you. Item No.3 is our community invocation. Tonight we will be lead by Pastor Steve Moore with Cherry Lane Christian Church. If you will all join us in the community invocation or take this as an opportunity for a moment of silence. Moore: Our Father God in Heaven, we thank you that you are our creator, that there is a power greater than ourselves, because, God, there is some things that we just can't fix and some things we can't do and we acknowledge that the most valuable things about life we can't buy and we can't earn. They are your gifts to us and we acknowledge that as a community. We acknowledge the gift of living in Meridian, Idaho, where there are no land mines as far as we know in our back yards or in the middle of our streets and though we have crowded streets, they are still, for the most part, filled with civil and neighborly people. We thank you for the heritage of our national leaders and our state leaders and our county leaders and most especially, since this is Meridian, the heritage of our Meridian leaders. I thank you for these present Meridian Meridian City Council January 24, 2006 Page 2 of 55 leaders and on behalf of all of the citizenry tonight, God, it has fallen my place to thank you for that. I pray that you will bless their lives. I thank you for the hours that they give way beyond what they are fairly paid from our tax dollars for their service, for many that are volunteers here tonight, God, are affected. It looks to me like, God, from the turnout tonight that there isn't that many controversial things on the agenda or there would probably be more people in these chambers. So, I kind of pray tonight that maybe the meeting will go swiftly and they can get home to their families and you can bless them in the way. I thank you for people that are willing to step up to the plate and be wiling to make decisions that knowing in coming to these meetings week after week and know that a lot of folks are going to be mad at them when the meeting's over with and we give them that, that they are making decisions out of a good conscience. I pray that you will bless them with wisdom, because there are people, I suppose, that come to this meeting with high hopes that a decision will be made that makes their life better and how it aids them. I pray for just good judicial judgment in this meeting tonight. Father, again, thank you for the privilege of living in this place. We pray that you would bless our future. We are a rapidly growing community, more so than just about anyplace in this nation, and that brings us both blessings and problems. So, give these folks an extra measure of wisdom tonight to sort that out just a little bit more for your glory and for your kingdom's sake, in Jesus' name, amen. Item 4: Adoption of the Agenda: De Weerd: Thank you, Pastor Moore. Item No.4 is the Consent Agenda -- I mean adoption of the agenda. Mr. Bird. Bird: Thank you, Madam Mayor. We do have an addition, which I will also go through when I go through the Consent Agenda. We do have an Item X, which is a request for license for Nampa-Meridian Irrigation District for the Waltman Lane sewer extension, which has been okayed by the city attorney. And we have two resolutions in our Consent Agenda, 06-501 and 06-502. In our regular agenda, Item No. 14, an ordinance, has been asked to be continued to February 6, 2006. And Item 13 is a resolution, which is No. 06-503. With that I move we -- I'm sorry. Yeah. Item A in the Consent Agenda would also be tabled to February 6, 2006. And with that I move that we approve the revised agenda. Rountree: Second. De Weerd: Okay. We have a motion to approve the agenda as amended. Is there any discussion? All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 5: Consent Agenda: A. Tabled from January 17, 2006: Development Agreement: AZ 05-017 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 137.96 acres from Meridian City Council January 24, 2006 Page 3 of 55 C. RUT to R.8 zone for Messina Meadows Subdivision by Tuscany Development, Inc. - on South Eagle Road between East Victory Road and East Amity Road: B. Approve Minutes of January 10,2006 City Council Regular Meeting: Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: VAR 05-025 Request for a Variance to UDC 11-3E.4.C.1 to exceed maximum structure size for a temporary sales trailer in the R-4 zone for Redfeather Estates No.2 by Packard Estates Development, LLC - 4132 East Race Street: D. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: AZ 05- 046 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 31.72 acres from RUT to R-4 zone for Estancia Subdivision by Gemstar Development, LLC - 1990 East Amity Road: E. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: PP 05- 049 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 103 single-family residential building lots and 7 common lots on 31.72 acres in a proposed R-4 zone for Estancia Subdivision by Gemstar Development, LLC - 1990 East Amity Road: F. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: AZ 05- 042 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 9.63 acres from RUT to R-8 zone for Medford Place Subdivision by Dyver Development, LLC - 3335 South Eagle Road: G. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: PP 05- 043 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 29 single-family residential building lots and 8 common area lots on 8.57 acres in a proposed R-8 zone for Medford Place Subdivision by Dyver Development, LLC - 3335 South Eagle Road: H. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: CUP 05-044 Request for approval of a Conditional Use Permit for a Planned Development for Medford Place Subdivision that includes reductions to the minimum requirements for lot size and street frontage by Dyver Development, LLC - 3335 South Eagle Road: I. Water Main Easement Aareement for Seventh Dav Adventist Church: J. Streetliaht Aareement for Redfeather Subdivision No.6 by Packard Estates, LLC: Meridian City Council January 24, 2006 Page 4 of 55 s. T. u. v. K. Streetliaht Aareement for Redfeather Subdivision No.7 by Packard Estates, LLC: L. Public Works Budaet Amendment for South Area Treatment and Lift Station Project: M. Chanae Order No.1 for the Black Cat Lift Station with JC Constructors, Inc.: N. Permanent and Temporarv Easement Contract for the Pine Interceptor Sewer Project: O. Temporarv Construction Easement Aareement for Waltman Lane Sewer Extension at Ten Mile Creek: P. Sanitarv Sewer Aareement for Waltman Lane Sewer Extension at Ten Mile Creek: Q. Water Main Easement Aareement for Newton's Nook by Pennwood III, LLC: R. Contract to Commission Artwork for the Meridian Gatewav between the City of Meridian and Sculptures by BJH, LLC: Contract with Dave McClaren Well Drillina for Rehabilitation and Redevelopment of Well # 17: Aareement for Professional Services for Wastewater Pretreatment On-Going Services Pretreatment Services: Resolution No. Election Ballots: 06-501 : Destruction of Records - Old Resolution No. 06-502 Prosecution Records: : Destruction of Records - Old De Weerd: Item 5, Consent Agenda. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: As I stated, Item A on the Consent Agenda needs to be tabled to February 6, 2006. We also have Resolution 06-501,06-502 and we have an addition, which is Item X, which is a request for license with Nampa-Meridian Irrigation District for Waltman Meridian City Council January 24, 2006 Page 5 of 55 Lane sewer extension. All these have been properly signed, are waiting for the Mayor to sign and the Clerk to attest, which is part of my motion. De Weerd: Do I have a second? Wardle: Second. De Weerd: Okay. Motion by Mr. Bird, Second by Mr. Wardle. Rountree: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Rountree. Rountree: Just for clarification, on Item No. R, is that for Main Street and Eagle Road or one -- or just Main Street? What's the location? De Weerd: Most immediate would be the Main Street over by KFC. Rountree: So, we wouldn't be at this point commissioning work that would be on Eagle Road? De Weerd: Not untillTD tell us we can. Rountree: Okay. De Weerd: And-- Rountree: That helps. De Weerd: -- gives me a budget. Rountree: And that helps when you get a budget. De Weerd: Yeah. Rountree: Okay. Thank you. De Weerd: Uh-huh. Any other questions? Thank you. Mr. Berg, will you, please, call roll. Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Borton, yea. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 6: Department Reports: Meridian City Council January 24, 2006 Page 6 of 55 A. Parks Department - Doug Strong 1. Discussion of Meridian Youth Baseball and Softball Project Cost Issues: De Weerd: Okay. Item No.6. Our Department Reports. We will begin with Mr. Strong from our Parks Department. Strong: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. I appreciate the opportunity to update where we are on the Meridian Youth Baseball project in Meridian Settlers Park. There has been quite a lot of change since we last talked about this back in August when some additional funds were allocated for this project. At that time we were looking at a total project of about a million two to do a phase one green up and as you may recall -- excuse me -- recall in the agreement at that time that we had with Meridian Youth Baseball, they were, essentially, planning to do all of the phase one of the Meridian Youth Baseball project. It did not include paving the parking lot. When we talked about it in August we put in additional money to pave the parking lot, so we come in with ball fields, a paved parking lot and, essentially, everything except the buildings on the property, so that we could hold ball tournaments and things like that. As we went out to look at construction costs, the events of late summer with Hurricane Katrina and other things like unavailability of concrete, we discovered that when we actually were starting to get some dollar amounts to do the project, that it went over two million dollars. So, since, then, we have been trying to value engineer some of the things in the project that we felt that we could change to save some cost and we have value engineered about 300,000 dollars out of that cost. So, what I handed out to you earlier -- right now the projected total cost for the phase one green up is $1,690,000 dollars. The funds that we show that we have available at this point -- there has been some of the money spent on the project in bringing in underground utilities and common trenches and the Ustick Road improvements, which are done, except for the seeding of the grass that will happen this spring after the water gets turned on. And all the driveways and entries into the project and utilities have been moved and all of that, so that everything behind the road improvements is, essentially, ready to go. So, some money has been spent, from what we talked about in August. It leaves a million -- just a little over a million dollars available funds. So, there is -- as you can see, there is about a 600,000 dollar difference -- 606,000 dollar difference in just projected costs of the project. So, I wanted to get that in front of you for some discussion tonight to see what your pleasure would be for how to proceed with the project. There is certainly some work that we have money to make some progress toward completing phase one, but we couldn't complete it if all the costs stay as they are. One other thing that I think was in your packet was the agreement that we need to amend to show the changes in what the city is now committed to pay for from the August decision and what Meridian Youth Baseball will pay for and we need to change some of the terms of the agreement. So, you have a draft in front of you. I mention that, because as we started sorting through these figures, I think you will find that it was -- it's showing that Meridian Youth Baseball would pay for the irrigation system in the park of the early estimates for the irrigation system, 313,000 dollars, and they don't have that much money currently available to Meridian City Council January 24, 2006 Page 7 of 55 them. So, that would be moved to city responsibility in the contract for funding. What I would recommend is that I bring back a final draft of the agreement, with MYB's signatures on it, to you like at our February 14th Commission meeting -- or Council meeting for your action. The changes in that one change with moving the irrigation system to the city. With that, I would be happy to answer questions. Bird: Doug-- De Weerd: Council, questions? Bird: Madam Mayor? I'm sorry. De Weerd: Uh-huh. Mr. Bird. Bird: Doug, you said this 1.6 is -- well, it's basically 1.7, but you said that is just greening it up? That isn't putting ball fields in or -- Strong: That's putting fields and fencing and dugouts and, essentially, ready to play. The things that won't -- the features that won't be in the park at that time would be the restroom buildings, concession buildings, the hard-scape structures that Meridian Youth Baseball plans to build. Bird: And does this include the parking lot, then? Strong: Yes. Bird: It will be -- Strong: The parking lot. What we engineered differently was -- the engineering was drainage vaults under the parking lot and out into the fields and we changed that to larger drainage fields, where you don't have to put concrete structures in. We changed the concrete drainage structures around the backstops to just route water around the backstops and such, so that we can save some of the piping and concrete costs in both the drain system and around the backstops. So, like I say, we have engineered out about over 300,000 dollars in just costs for materials, for concrete, but it's still very expensive, so -- Bird: Yeah, they are. Thank you very much. Borton: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Borton. Borton: Doug, tell me a little bit about what Meridian Youth Baseball has done fundraising wise. I see the 315,000, if that's applied towards greening it up? Are they at zero, then, to start fundraising again for construction of restrooms and -- Meridian City Council January 24, 2006 Page 8 of 55 Strong: That's my understanding, that their fundraising is ongoing. Of course, they have registration fees and such that they draw some of their revenue from. They had a fairly large grant that fell through that was -- they were anticipating using for the phase one development that didn't happen, partly because of events in the world where volunteer contributions seemed to dry up, as with many other volunteer organizations. They started with 350,000 dollars. They are paying for all the engineering and architectural documents, construction management and other items that would take up the 315 that's remaining. So, we are having to -- some engineering costs in just reengineering the documents from the original set, costs another I think 8,000 dollars for that. Borton: What I was wondering is when this was first proposed -- I just signed my boys up last week and there wasn't any big clamoring or concern that we need to raise a lot more money, because our fields are in jeopardy or anything like that. Was there initially some big promise by Meridian Youth Baseball that they are going to raise this money and do their best efforts to share these expenses? The reason I ask is they are in a situation now where they are saying, oops, we don't have any funds and the city is going to amend the contract and just pick up all the tab and do it for them. Is there any heat that could be put on them to step up their efforts? Strong: I think, certainly, we could do that. As I mentioned in the original agreement, all of phase one was to be paid for by Meridian Youth Baseball, other than some city money that we had to bring underground utilities into the site and we, of course, had money to do the Ustick Road improvements, which we -- which were going to be included in the entire project. We elected late in the summer to parcel that out and complete the work, so that we could use the city funds, because they have, actually, been sitting there for several years and it's been set aside in the phase one of the park that was never completed. So, we wanted to get the road improvements done. So, since, then, what they had anticipated in funds certainly has fallen through and it's certainly an option to put pressure on them to raise more money. The 315,000 that I show here is what -- what I learned today is actually available in funds right now and that's as much as I know about their fund -- funding efforts or source at this point. De Weerd: So, is cash, it doesn't include any in-kind? Strong: No. That's my understanding. This is money in the bank. De Weerd: Okay. But they do have in-kind contributions as well, don't they? Strong: Actually, there has already been some in-kind contributions to the project that will be donated. Light poles and lights for the parking lot and things like that. That amounts to close to 10,000 just for the light poles. They have the ability as a nonprofit organization to certainly solicit donations and do fundraising, which they will be encouraged to continue to do. Meridian City Council January 24, 2006 Page 9 of 55 Wardle: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Wardle. Wardle: And just to clarify for Councilman Borton, during the budget process this Council looked at our parks inventory and the partnerships that we had and found that there were between 60 and 70 acres that were partnered with the City of Meridian that had been for sometime -- sometimes as long as four years. At that time the Council felt that some of the surplus monies that we had in park impact fees could go towards actually seeing those parks come online. And so at that time a budget amendment was -- or a budget for this year was made at what we thought was our best estimate to completely finish the park. I guess what I'm hearing is we are roughly 600,000 dollars short. Is that correct, Mr. Strong? Strong: That's correct. And, actually, it would be to finish phase one. It did not include any of the buildings on the site. Wardle: Madam Mayor, a follow-up question? De Weerd: Uh-huh. Wardle: Doug, how much do we have available within the impact fee fund and would this be eligible for that additional amount? Strong: It is certainly eligible for impact fee money and I just got an update today from our finance department. If I can find that. What I will recall off the top of my head is that -- here we go. Projected revenue for ending this fiscal year September 30th of 2006, the expected fund balance in the park impact fees will be 1,561,892. That's projected. And that's not committed to any other capital project or anything like that. That's based on anticipated revenue. Wardle: Thank you. De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions for Mr. Strong? Okay. I guess I would ask, when you bring back the agreement, that you also include in-kind donations and if they have some kind of fundraising plan that you would bring that back to Council as well. Okay. If there is nothing further, do I have any direction from Council to staff? Bird: I think you just stated what I want to hear. I want to -- when you revise it and get with them and see if they are fundraising and I -- because I think you got another project coming right up that's going to be identical to this, going to want a lot of city money in it up there at Lochsa Falls. I don't know how much. We'll get into that when we get to there. But coming from two groups that have built facilities on Boise parks and on Meridian parks and never getting a penny from the city, I guess I'm kind of funny about this stuff. Meridian City Council January 24, 2006 Page 10 of 55 Strong: Madam Mayor, since you mentioned the PAL project at Lochsa Falls, I could also bring that revised agreement back on the 14th as well. There is very little change in it. What we added, essentially, in that agreement was the paved parking lot that the city is paying for. That was in -- in their phased agreement they were going to put in a temporary service in phase one. And we had money to put in the irrigation lake and underground utilities. They are putting in the irrigation system and planting the grass. So, to get that particular park playable for soccer, the only difference that was funded was the paved parking lot, which you approved the funds back in August. So, the only thing we need to change with PAL is the agreement and what they are paying for and what we are paying for as a city. So, that's a relatively simple agreement amendment. But at this point it doesn't look like we need any additional funds for the project. So, that's maybe a good news side of things. Bird: Yeah. De Weerd: I guess one last thing about the Meridian Youth Baseball fields. The value engineering or the funds that you're able to reduce down in scope, it will not compromise the drainage, would it? Strong: That's a question that we brought up with The Land Group and their engineers and we have looked at it and -- and they think not. They think that -- because we didn't want to compromise the construction of the park if the field would not drain or the parking lot wouldn't drain and it looks like there is enough room to put these larger drainage beds in and take care of the water. So, their engineers have looked it over and think that that will work. De Weerd: Okay. Because I don't want to see long-term problems because of value engineering. Strong: Well -- and we don't want to inherit anything that would be difficult to maintain either, so -- De Weerd: Uh-huh. Mr. Wardle. Wardle: Madam Mayor, my thoughts on the specific Meridian Youth Baseball park is that we made a decision at the budget process to utilize some city funds to bring this online for community use, as well as for the organization. So, I still think that's a viable plan. One of the things that I would like to see from the Meridian Youth Baseball -- because they are not going to be placing restrooms and concession facilities in there, is a time line and a plan for that to happen. I know that they have been allotted a -- the regional tournament, if I'm correct, which will come with some, as I understand, profit sharing from the youth baseball organization. Maybe if we can earmark or at least help them begin to determine how they are going to get those facilities in place -- I can tell you from a lifetime of little league that one thing that we definitely need in that is restroom and concession facilities, so -- Meridian City Council January 24, 2006 Page 11 of 55 Strong: Yeah. The trees that we plant initially will be very small, so -- Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: I agree with Councilman Wardle on that deal and I have no problem helping them, because it is something -- and it's tough to raise money anymore. Everybody and their dog is out raising money. Bring it back, let's see what we can do. I think -- I think we need to look at some -- sometimes who we are using for engineers and stuff like that. I think we need to take a hard look at that, too. De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. So, do we need a motion on the additional funds or what is the process? Bird: Mayor, I thought you said he was going to bring back the -- De Weerd: With the -- Bird: -- with the deal, so we know exactly what we need. De Weerd: Okay. Bird: Isn't that what you told them? De Weerd: Uh-huh. Bird: That's what I understood and that's -- De Weerd: But we need a motion to ask him to do that. Bird: No. De Weerd: Okay. Bird: I think that's a management tool and you ask. De Weerd: Okay. Strong: Madam Mayor, then, when I talk to Meridian Youth Baseball, we will look for some kind of action on the 14th. Bird: We should. De Weerd: Yeah. So, they are up and ready to hit it hard once things dry out and spring comes. Meridian City Council January 24, 2006 Page 12 of 55 Strong: Okay. Thank you. B. Legal Department - Bill Nary 1. Update on RFP for Impact Fees: 2. Update on U-Turn Ordinance Proposal: Update on Parking Lot Property Exchange: De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Item 6-B. Our legal department. Mr. Nary. 3. Nary: Thank you, Madam Mayor, I will go up there. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, there is three items I just wanted to update you on and none of them should take very long. The first was the RP for impact fees. We took that out a couple of months ago. We got two responses for that and we were looking at both the impact fees for parks, as well as some other impact fees that may be feasible under our state code. We have a committee that's made up of Mr. Baird from my office, both of the chiefs from the fire and the police department and the planning department as well, and as they reviewed it, they felt that to be fair to the city to really and truly do this properly, we really needed a better response. And so the committee has recommended simply rejecting the two bids. We will have -- we have notified, I'm sorry, the two applicants and allowed them to rebid with some more specific information as to what we are seeking, so that, hopefully, we will get better return. We are also going to solicit directly to some of the firms that have -- or consultants that have been involved in these types of processes in other communities, so that we again -- hopefully we will get a better return, especially in regards to public safety impact fees and looking in that direction as a possibility. So, I wanted to make sure you were informed about that. Secondarily, I put on your place -- and I think I forgot to give one to Mr. Berg, so -- if you recall, we discussed last fall a u-turn ordinance for the city. This is a recommendation from the traffic safety commission and, basically, trying to put a little more specificity into our u- turn ordinance. Our ordinance mirrors the city of Boise's ordinance. It has some specifics that are a little bit different than the state code. The state code only has a few places where u-turns are prohibited and we find in a growing city such as ours, having that much freedom of people making u-turns in places they are not being expected with the volume of traffic that we see along our major roadways, that it can be more dangerous than people imagine. And so I did run this by the police department and our prosecution. Council member Rountree had asked that before we brought this forward for final passage that we also get some input from the Idaho Transportation Department. We have had numerous contacts between us and we haven't finished that yet, so I'm not ready to put it on for your final approval, but I did want to bring this back and get it before you to at least start thinking about. We couldn't put it on for at least another couple of weeks, since your next regular meeting isn't until February 6th. But I did want to at least give you an opportunity to look at it. Under subsection two there is one -- there is one error there. What we have recommended by the Traffic Safety Meridian City Council January 24, 2006 Page 13 of 55 Commission was to have a site distance of at least 100 feet to allow for a u-turn. State law requires you have 500 feet of visible roadway before you can make a u-turn, so we can't make it less than what the state law requires. So, that one will probably have to change. But, otherwise, some of these are more specific. The main one that's probably different than what the state law -- the state law says you cannot make a u-turn in a no passing zone. What subsection one here says, you can't make a u-turn unless it's specifically posted in an intersection to allow you to do that. So, that way it's more of an affirmative requirement that they be posted to allow a u-turn. Most of the intersections in town we don't want u-turns at anyway. I think the other difference that's probably for your edification, as you can see with the current city ordinance and the state law doesn't define what safely means, so we tried to make it clear enough for people to understand what safely is supposed to be. People making u-turns right at the entrance of subdivisions is not safe. People making them in the middle of the intersections on Eagle Road aren't safe, those types of things. If you have any questions about this particular ordinance -- obviously, it will be a few weeks before you get it back. I do want to make sure we get confirmation from ITO that it's not going to impact them on the major highways in the city that are their responsibility. ACHD's counsel has already reviewed it and hasn't had any -- didn't have any issues with it. De Weerd: Okay. Council any, questions? Borton: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Borton. Borton: One question under B. Nary: Yes. Borton: I guess I see this all the time. Is it a violation if you're turning -- the classic example I have seen is on Fairview turning left or north into the Fred Meyer parking lot. All the traffic always stops for you to allow you to do that. Is that a partial u-turn? Nary: No. A partial u-turn would be is if you were to make a complete u-turn on the street and, then, your car is facing the opposite direction of oncoming traffic. Borton: Okay. Nary: So, no, that type of maneuver is fine. De Weerd: As long as you don't get hit. Now, if you get hit, it's your fault, so -- not that I have been hit, but -- Nary: In the next couple of weeks, Council, if you have any other questions or concerns or anything, comments, please, let me know and it will be a couple of weeks and you should see this back on your agenda. The last item, item three, Council, is the parking Meridian City Council January 24, 2006 Page 14 of 55 lot property exchange. A couple of weeks ago we had our Public Hearing. You did agree to the transaction and we held off on the actual ordinance completing that transaction. We are still waiting for some of the other exchanges to occur on this property. Just to refresh your memory, the parking lot across the street next to the Buich property on the corner of Broadway and Main Street and the creamery property and the city parking lot, we are ostensibly exchanging two parcels of the city's lot for a portion that is immediately adjacent to the creamery. I did speak with Claire Bowman, the Administrator for the Meridian Development Corporation yesterday. He said Mr. Buich is still -- hasn't completed his transaction to purchase those two parcels that are immediately adjacent to the creamery, so when that was completed he would advise us of that and he was in agreement with me, unless I misunderstood your direction, what appeared to the city to be a like exchange if the property that Mr. Buich purchased is next to the creamery is a parking lot, because the city doesn't have to expend a few additional funds to make it into a parking lot and that's what Mr. Bowman had said he and Mr. Buich had already discussed that and that was his intent was once he was able to secure those two parcels, he would clear the ground, there is a big ramp that's there and the like, he would clear that ground and pave that property and be able to, then, exchange that with the city at that point, so there won't be any additional cost to the city. I did want to clarify -- or clear up what I had misunderstood in the earlier discussion. Councilmember Rountree had raised a question about the drive aisle and if the drive aisle that would be used for this city parking lot would also be a shared drive aisle with Mr. Buich's property. I didn't -- I didn't understand. I thought it was not going to be a shared drive aisle. When I discussed it with Mr. Bowman, it is a shared drive. So, we would, then, need cross-access agreements, as well as indemnification to make sure the people that are using the city's lot aren't -- or using Mr. Buich's lot aren't going to be suing the city for damages or those types of things. So, we will get all of those things taken care of before we bring this back to you to actually make the transaction. We may need, Mr. Bowman said, something from the city and before we do this I will bring that back to you as well -- some assurance from Mr. Buich's financeirs that the city will go through with this once it's completed, so that they have some assurance that it is going to happen and that he can get the proper financing to get all these -- the ground work done prior to us actually transferring him the property and that way we can be assured it's done. I didn't want to transfer it and, then, we -- for some reason something happened and we have to transfer it back. That would be more trouble than it's worth. So, we didn't want to do that. So, we may need to do that. If that's the case I'll make sure you're aware of that and we will make sure you see that before we transfer the property. De Weerd: Okay. Any questions for Mr. Nary? Okay. Thank you. Item 7: Items Moved from Consent Agenda: De Weerd. Okay. There were no items moved from the Consent Agenda. De Weerd: So Items 8, 9 and 10, Anna, are there any issues with any of these final plats? Meridian City Council January 24, 2006 Page 15 of 55 Canning: Yes, Ma'am. De Weerd: Okay. So, we need to go through them one at a time? Canning: Yes, ma'am. Item 8: Tabled from January 3, 2006: FP 05-073 Request for Final Plat approval for 11 residential building lots and 4 common area lots on 5.36 acres in a R-3 zone for EI Gato Subdivision by Conger Management Group - 701 Black Cat Road: De Weerd: Okay. Item 8, tabled from January 3rd is FP 05-073. We will start this item with staff comments. Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this applicant has been waiting to get on Ada County Highway District agenda for his vacation application. He has gotten a date for that and the next available Council date following his ACHD hearing date would be March 7th. So, he's requesting continuance to March 7th. De Weerd: Okay. Rountree: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Rountree. Rountree: I move that we continue Item No.8 until March 7th. Borton: Second. De Weerd: Okay. Motion is to move Item No.8 to March 7th. Okay. There is a motion to continue Item 8 to March 7th. All in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 9: FP 05-080 Request for Final Plat approval of 102 single-family building lots and 23 common lots on 25.34 acres in an R-8 zone for Crossfield Subdivision No.1 by Packard Estates Development, LLC - 955 West Ustick Road: De Weerd: Item 9, FP 05-080. Anna. Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is the final plat for Crossfield Subdivision. This is the preliminary plat. The final plat encompasses this portion of the preliminary plat. Here is the final plat. We shifted orientation, so this is Ustick now. There was that entry road that came down and the open space and, then, this is where Meridian City Council January 24, 2006 Page 16 of 55 it angles off. There are two issues connected with the final plat at this time. There is some flood plane issues in this area and I'll let Mr. Grady explain those. And, then, there is an issue with the -- a secondary means of access. As you can see, there is just this one means of access from -- into the property right now. They are proposing an emergency secondary access at this location and Chief Anderson will discuss that issue. Grady: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, as far as the flood plane issue, we just need to add a reference to the plat calling out for a FEMA flood plane map reference and I believe the applicant is okay with that. So, basically, it would just depict that there is a flood plane in that area and, then, they can go look up the map reference for that flood plane. De Weerd: Okay. Thank you, Len. Chief. Anderson: Madam Mayor and Council, I just wanted to talk a little bit about the issue about the secondary access, I guess, and to try to use this as maybe an opportunity to educate a little bit about the code. We will make code officials out of you guys, hopefully, tonight. De Weerd: There is just former council members we just can't get rid of. Anderson: That Nary guy? Is that -- anyhow, on subdivisions under the International Building Code, it talks about that when a subdivision gets over 30 lots in size that they need to provide secondary access to it in case for whatever reason there is -- a tree falls across the road, an auto accident, whatever that blocks access into the subdivision. Meridian has been a little bit more lenient than that. We have fudged that 30 lot rule up to 50 lots, so we allow a little bit more than that. This particular subdivision is 102 lots in size and so, technically, it needs to have a secondary access point. The only access point right now is right here off of Ustick Road. What the developer is proposing is to take this little flag lot down here and put an emergency access, a gravel road - 20-foot gravel road across there. The fire department's concern, obviously, is that we don't get into another situation like happened on South Linder Road where it starts out with one subdivision and next time it's another subdivision and now on South Linder we have got 700 homes down there that have a single access point in and out of that area without a connection over the Interstate. So, I think it's something to be cognizant of as you're approving these subdivisions. Part of the reason why there is no access is because there is a Creason Lateral back behind this subdivision and so we don't typically make them put bridges across those laterals and those canals to connect to subdivisions and so this is Venable Lane over here, there is no access. This is undeveloped property, but it's owned by the same developer that owns this. To put in an emergency access, the code talks about that you would take a measurement -- a diagonal measurement across the property, so going from here to this point here is about 1,650 feet and you divide that by two, leaves you about 825 feet and that's the rule of thumb that they use for how far apart these access points should be. In this case if we allow a temporary one here, that's only a little over 400 feet. So, it's not close to what we need by code. Meridian City Council January 24, 2006 Page 17 of 55 But we do know that this property right over here is probably going to develop at some point. So, I guess what the fire department would be willing to do is accept this access point if we could have on record in some type of guarantee that we are not going to get cutoff over here and that as this property develops over here, I think it's slated for a neighborhood center or something that a cross-access agreement is allowed and that access is, then, taken off Venable Lane and that we do get the secondary access as we develop this future land over to the east of this property. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Bird. Bird: Chief, what is to the east there? We have got an opening through there. Is that-- down here at the bottom where your road comes through? Anderson: It's my understanding that this is just undeveloped property -- Bird: No. No. Down there -- over here on the east side. De Weerd: On the west side? Nary: That's north is that way. Bird: Oh, Ustick. That comes back. Yeah. Canning: That will help. Bird: Yeah. Thank you. Anderson: That's private property still undeveloped over there. Bird: That is undeveloped, too. We do have an opening there, though. Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, we did have a pre-application conference this week on some properties here, so that may be an opportunity. And, actually, it will connect into Salisbury, also known as Vallen Court Subdivision, at this point -- is that right? Yeah. That's Waterbury Subdivision. I'm sorry. So, there will be a connection into that subdivision at some point as well. Actually, there is -- this preliminary plat does not have a physical location to Venable Lane as of yet. There is still some question as to how Venable Lane will occur when this property comes and develops. So, the next likely connection will be the one into Waterbury. Bird: Anna -- or Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Uh-huh. Meridian City Council January 24, 2006 Page 18 of 55 Bird: Anna, you say that the one there has come in for a preliminary? Where are they going to access? Are they coming -- are they coming off of Ustick, too? Canning: Yes, sir. They had these two properties combined and they are considering getting a third one, especially since the pre-app. So, they would bring in a single connection and, then, connect at this point. Bird: So, that would be -- that would be an access, too, then -- Canning: Yes, sir. Bird: -- once it's done? And at that point, Chief, would the temporary go away? Because, man, you're putting that temporary right between two accesses. Anderson: Right. We would prefer a permanent access and if we can get it through one of these other developments -- but sitting in the seats you guys did for a few years, I know that those developments, when they come in, a lot of times they don't want to have those access roads. So, I think it's important to be on the record that those need to be in and, then, there is no surprises when they do happen. Bird: Okay. De Weerd: Thank you. And, Council, I would just remind you -- and ask Anna to pass on our thanks to Steve Siddoway, who -- on your agenda tonight we -- you did approve temporary access easement agreement connecting Waltman Lane and Ruddy Drive and that was a great effort. So, appreciate Steve and appreciate, chief, you bringing that up, because we don't want another one of those situations. De Weerd: Okay. Any questions for staff, Council? If not, do you need any additional information or do I have a motion? Wardle: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Wardle. Wardle: I move that we approve Item No.9, FP 05-080, including staff comments. Borton: Second. De Weerd: Okay. The motion is to approve Item 9 with staff comments and that would include Chief Anderson's comments. Wardle: All staff, including the fire chief. De Weerd: Okay. Okay. Any further discussion? Mr. Berg. Meridian City Council January 24, 2006 Page 19 of 55 Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Borton, yea. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 10: FP 05-079 Request for Final Plat approval of 36 single-family building lots and 1 common lot on 9.38 acres in an R-8 zone for Burnev Glen Subdivision No.3 by Properties West, Inc. - south of McMillan Road on North Meridian Road: De Weerd: Okay. Item 10, FP 05-079. I will start with the Anna's comments. Canning: Madam Mayor, this one we do have a letter of agreement from the applicant stating that they are -- have reviewed the conditions of approval and agree with them, so this one is ready to go. De Weerd: Okay. Do I have a motion, Council? Wardle: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Wardle. Wardle: I move we approve Item 10, FP 05-079. Bird: Second. De Weerd: Okay. Motion to approve Item 10. If there is no discussion, Mr. Berg, will you call roll. Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Borton, yea. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 11: Public Hearing: MI 05-018 Miscellaneous request to amend the previously approved Development Agreement for Cottonwood Lane Annexation (AZ 04-029) by William Colson, Hugh Colson Revocable Trust and Meridian Premier, LLC - 985 East Freeway Drive: De Weerd: Thank you. Item 11, Public Hearing MI 05-018. I will open this Public Hearing with staff comments. Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is the Cottonwood Lane project and it's located on the north side of Freeway Drive, which runs right parallel to the Eagle Road on ramp going west and, then, at the intersection of Wells Street. I do want to point out our new vicinity maps, with help from our GIS person Robin Jack. We have this new capability and my administrative assistant was just tickled pink on how pretty a Meridian City Council January 24, 2006 Page 20 of 55 vicinity map she's able to do for you all. The blue areas indicate that it's a county parcel at this time and, then, the purple is light office. The red is C-G. The yellow is residential. So, the property is a very odd shaped boomerang kind of thing in this location. The application that's before you tonight is a development agreement modification and the staff report goes through this in great detail. I'm going to try and summarize those provisions, although they don't lend themselves easily to that. So, if you have questions, please, feel free to refer to either the staff report or I can look things up. The first section is just, basically, changes to clarify the recitals. The second one would be to clarify some of the allowed land uses. Staff is recommending that consistent with the applicant's request, the DA reflect UDC references and, then, to state the primary land uses that were approved as part of the original approval. The third section for section five, it erroneously references conditional use application approval for this development. So, staff is recommending that, instead, language be inserted that notes that if a CU is required consistent with the UDC, that they go ahead and go through that conditional use process prior to construction of buildings or improvements. The next section is regarding section seven, which was the compliance period that gave the developer two years to complete all of the requirements listed in the previous section of the development agreement and those include a multi-use pathway along Five Mile Creek and you can see the flood plane from Five Mile Creek, the kind of paler blue coming through. Most of this property is within the flood plane. And, then, the standard conditions of approval for an annexation application, including street improvements and other infra-structure improvements. The applicant felt that the two year period would be amended, because no specific approval was granted with the annexation request. So, they do still have some entitlement work they need to do before they can begin subdividing or constructing. The applicant has asked -- he asked for -- that the compliance be tied to some other provisions. One of those was recording a final plat. Another one was related to building permits and, then, the third was four years from the date of the original agreement, instead of two. Staff would recommend that only two of those -- and that would be that the -- the plat has been recorded or the four years from the date of the original agreement. And the last section, 17, was regard to notices and the applicant is proposing to amend those by putting the current owner and developer names in and addresses. So, just bringing them up to date. So, staff is recommending approval. There was no Commission recommendations. It's not required for this application. To our knowledge there is no outstanding issues before City Council. There are also no Findings. You would direct -- if you choose to approve this modification, you would direct the city attorney to prepare an amended agreement. With that I'll end staff's presentation. De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Wardle? Wardle: Madam Mayor. Anna, I'm trying to remember this application when it came through and I know that we approved -- if not this application, one very near it based on elevations provided by the applicant for the office park. Canning: This is -- I don't remember seeing elevations, Councilman Wardle. This was proposed as a hotel and, then, this -- the back area -- or, I'm sorry, that was already a Meridian City Council January 24, 2006 Page 21 of 55 hotel. Here we go. This is a proposed hotel, and, then, the back area was proposed as either, yeah, office pads or multi-family and this is kind of the -- that's the flood way and flood plane coming through. Wardle: Madam Mayor. Follow-up, Anna. I remember talking about office buildings behind that. I don't remember specific discussion on multi-family and would this change require elevations to come forward before multi-family would be approved or would it be an allowed use and subject to staff level approval? Canning: All multi-family is conditionally approved. So, it would have conditional use approval. In the previous annexation request and associated development agreement had no other entitlements associated with it, so there was no plat, there was no CU approval, it was just the annexation request. So, they would need to come in with -- for conditional use approval to the Planning and Zoning Commission. Wardle: Okay. Thank you. De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions, Council? Mr. Nary, do you have comment? Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, just a couple of clarifications. I think Mrs. Canning has stated all of the staffs recommendations and some of those were from my office as well. Probably the only one that from -- I guess that has some legal significance -- most of it is a cleanup of some language in this agreement, but one of them raises a different issue that we may want -- you may want to think about it in the future. All of our standard development agreements have a condition of two years. That sometimes is not long enough, which is what is being proposed here, because the property has transferred owners and there is a lot of work, especially because of the challenges of this particular site and that's the reason for the request for a longer period of time to comply with all of those requirements and that's, again, your decision. But sometimes two years is way too long to have property sitting without anything happening on it with that and part of our discussion next week is thinking about that and talking about that in future development agreements as to how we would frame that, so that we don't have ground that just sits and sits and doesn't get developed, nothing happens. The only recommendation I had on that provision on the default was those two when -- normally when property gets platted they have a year -- you see those time extensions, they have to come back before you, so that was why we felt that the final plat is probably adequate as one trigger to take them out of the default and, then, the four years is -- again, it's your decision, but, again, I think this one is a challenging site because of where it's located and the floodway issues that they have to address. So, that might be appropriate, but, again, it's up to you. Mr. Lee is the attorney for the developer here that has also looked at this agreement. I don't know if he has any comment for you, but I just wanted to put that on the record as well. De Weerd: Mr. Lee, do you have comment? I guess I was asking an attorney if he had a comment. No, you can -- apparently you're not used to attorney jokes. I apologize. Meridian City Council January 24, 2006 Page 22 of 55 Lee: I must say, I'm a bit rusty on my attorney jokes. I don't think I'd do a very good stand-up routine. My name is Frank Lee. I am the attorney for the current owner of the property who acquired it from the original developer. When we -- my client acquired the property and, then, reviewed the development agreement and reviewed this particular drawing, they realized that this is a very difficult site and development as contemplated in that drawing isn't really what we want to do or in discussing it with the city staff, that's not really the way the city would like it to be developed and there is lots of issues there. And because it hadn't been platted, there was no Conditional Use Permit applications pending, we thought two years was far too short of a period of time to deal with those issues, have it properly platted, and -- planned and platted and done and so we thought four years was an appropriate time. And that's the basis of that request. And the remaining changes are as Mr. Nary stated, mostly cleanup. So, I will stand for any questions you might have. De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Lee. Any questions for the applicant? Rountree: I have none. De Weerd: Okay. Okay. Council, any additional questions? This is a Public Hearing. Is there anyone who would like to share testimony on this application? Okay. Rountree: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Rountree. Rountree: If there is no further comment, I would move that we close the Public Hearing for Item No. 11. Bird: Second. De Weerd: Okay. The motion is to close the Public Hearing on Item 11. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. De Weerd: Any discussion or staff comments needed? Okay. Do I have a motion? Rountree: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Rountree. Rountree: I move that we approve the request to amend the previous development agreement for Cottonwood Lane. The agreement to include the clarification statements and recommendations of staff, to trigger the agreement on the recordation of the final plat or four years from the agreement and to direct the attorney to prepare the amended agreement. Meridian City Council January 24, 2006 Page 23 of 55 Bird: Second. De Weerd: Okay. Motion to approve Item 11 as amended. If there is no further discussion, Mr. Berg, will you call roll. Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Borton, yea. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 12: Public Hearing: Fee Schedule for Reservation to Use Police Station Conference Room: De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Item 12 is Public Hearing on fee schedule for reservation to use the police station conference room. I will go ahead and open this Public Hearing with the chiefs comments. Musser: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, what we have done is taken a look back at the use on the public meeting room at the police department, which has been rather extensive and heavy. We have also divided the fees into two groups for a half day and a full day on that. And made just some minor adjustments. Part of that adjustment in terms of the amount of time it takes for us to schedule the building and due do to food problems in the public meeting room as well, there is some additional cleanup costs also incorporated in there and we are looking at the potential down the road that we are probably going to have to replace carpet out of there. So, what we are trying to do with the fees is hold to those actual costs that we may be incurring upon them, not try to make it too unreasonable or anything, but also try to adjust it to cover a full day usage, in addition to just having the half day usage as well. De Weerd: Thank you, chief. Any questions for the chief? Okay. Is there anyone from the public who would like to offer testimony on this item? Seeing none, Mr. Nary. Nary: Madam Mayor, I just wanted to put on the record the reason it was listed in your packets and in the advertisement as a new fee and not an amended fee is because we couldn't find that we actually ever did it before. I think we talked about it, but we didn't actually do a Public Hearing and do it, so that's why it's listed as a new fee. De Weerd: Thank you. Rountree: Oops. Nary: Chief Worley was the chief. Bird: Blame him. De Weerd: It certainly wasn't Chief Musser. Meridian City Council January 24, 2006 Page 24 of 55 Borton: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Borton. Borton: Chief, is there a need for a deposit on these room rentals to take care of spills and problems that might happen? Musser: At this point, Councilman, what we have done is -- is we have made the agreements structured such that we can bill that party for additional cleanup costs if we -- if we run into those. It's part of the agreement when they sign on it, that they could have to put out additional costs on it. We don't require deposit at this point. We have kept the fees really pretty reasonable in the long run for what the public's using it for and for private organizations as well. So, we have tried not to be too hard nosed about it. Borton: Okay. De Weerd: Thank you. Wardle: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Wardle. Wardle: Chief, just a quick question. Is there -- in the ordinance or in the resolution is there a mechanism for waiver of the fee? Musser: Councilman Wardle, I'm not aware of one that we have at this time. Traditionally we have an imposed fee for city functions within the city building or those types of functions which we are a part of. Say, for instance, a board meeting with Drug Free Idaho, Pay/Ada, that type of thing. If the city is directly affiliated, there is an expectation that they can use the city facility without having to pay for it, if that answers your question. Wardle: Madam Mayor. It does answer my question. I'm just wondering if we need -- Mr. Nary, if we need further clarification of -- since we will be charging other outside organizations, which are outside of the city, and there are volunteer organizations which are internal to the city. Do we need to clarify that there wouldn't be a fee for those? Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Council member Wardle, that's a policy decision of the city is that when the fees are imposed, but probably to make it clearer in your motion, if you want to approve the resolution, you can certainly include that. Or if you would like us to bring a different resolution back with that specific language contained within it, so that it's clear to folks that that was the intent, that anything that's a city function there wouldn't be a fee. Or that would be discretionary. We could certainly do any of those things. Meridian City Council January 24, 2006 Page 25 of 55 Wardle: Okay. Thank you. De Weerd: Thank you. Mr. Berg. Berg: Thank you, Madam Mayor. I didn't want to bring another little situation, but sometimes we have had some conflicts with the use of City Hall and this chamber and needed to use it for a special City Council meeting or P&Z meeting, which we bumped an organization from this meeting room and the police department has let us use that one. For instance, Meridian Historical Society or something like that. I just was -- I don't want to get into it, but that's always been kind of an administrative thing that if it was available and we couldn't make this room available, that the police department's always made it available over there. I don't know if that needed to be addressed, but I don't want people to start pointing fingers that we do this for this or that for them or -- they are part of our community, yes. De Weerd: Okay. Nary: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Nary. Nary: Maybe in light of that we could bring a different resolution back in a couple of weeks to at least have those contingencies that since section two says the police department is authorized to carry out the collection of fees, if the Council wants either the policy decision in the resolution itself of, you know, city organization or city business, or at the city's request or that it gives the chief or the department the discretion on city business or something to that effect -- we can figure out the language, but bring that back in a couple weeks and having it in a resolution is sometimes easier, we can always point to it, it's a little clearer to everybody how it's applied and, then, we can put that on your next meeting. De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Okay. Is there anything further? Wardle: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Wardle. Wardle: Hearing nothing further, I move that we close the Public Hearing on Item 12. Borton: Second. De Weerd: Okay. Motion is to close the Public Hearing on Item 12. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Meridian City Council January 24, 2006 Page 26 of 55 Item 13: Resolution No. : Approving and Adopting Fees for Public Use of the Meridian Police Department Conference Room: De Weerd: Okay. Item 13 is a resolution to approve and adopt the fees as discussed in Item 12, Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: I would move that we put this back until February 13th -- 14th. To February 14th with a new resolution stating the policy that we had for the fees of the rental. Rountree: Second. De Weerd: Okay. The motion is to table this resolution to February 14th for additional work. Any discussion? Wardle: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Wardle. Wardle: Just for clarification, I think that we need to clarify that any meetings associated with the City of Meridian at the discretion of -- and leave the authority with the police department, using Mr. Berg's example of the historical society has members which are appointed by the Mayor and so any of those committees -- I don't think we need to name them, but let's make a general statement and, again, leave the discretion to the department to collect some fees. Bird: Agree a hundred percent. De Weerd: Okay. Chief, any issues? Musser: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, that sounds like a good functional project for counsel and I to work on. De Weerd: Okay. Have I already called for a vote? Okay. Just wanted to make sure. Nary: You had a move to table -- Bird: We were going to vote. De Weerd: Exactly. Nary: Oh. Okay. I'm sorry. Meridian City Council January 24, 2006 Page 27 of 55 De Weerd: No. We were tabling with instruction of how to prepare it for our attorney. Okay. All those in favor say aye. Okay. I hope you know what you just said aye to. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. De Weerd: Item-- Rountree: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes. Rountree: I heard him. Item 14: Tabled from January 17, 2006: Ordinance No. : AZ 05-017 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 137.96 acres from RUT to R-8 zone for Messina Meadows Subdivision by Tuscany Development, Inc. - on South Eagle Road between East Victory Road and East Amity Road: De Weerd: Okay. Item 14. Do I have a motion on that? Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: I move we table Ordinance AZ 05-017, Annexation and Zoning of Messina Meadows Subdivision to February 6, 2006. De Weerd: Is that February 7th, maybe? Bird: You're probably right. I think you're right. Rountree: It is. Bird: It's right. I'm a day off. Rountree: I'll second that. De Weerd: Okay. Item 14 has been moved to table to February 7th. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 15: Discussion of Expansion of Area of City Impact - South Area Boundary: Meridian City Council January 24, 2006 Page 28 of 55 De Weerd: Okay. Item 15 is discussion of expansion of area of city impact south area boundary. I don't know who's going to kick off this discussion. Mr. Grady. Grady: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, after much discussion and more or less a slowed start on several of these issues, what you see here in front of you tonight is a -- sort of a collation of the latest information that we have in the negotiations with United Water and with the City of Kuna. So, I will walk through three separate scenarios, one to do with United Water and two options that we are looking for some guidance with as far as Kuna. To start off with, United Water, you will notice a gray band along the west side of our boundary. Sorry. The west side of their boundary. East side of our boundary. Thank you, Anna. Basically, this boundary is what we are calling a gray zone and subdivisions in that zone which ultimately end up with Meridian addresses, will be served by Meridian water. If those end up going over to Boise, then, they will be served by United Water. Anything to the north of Chinden, because United Water is already there, is -- will be served by United Water. Anything to the south of the line that we are negotiating with -- with Kuna will also either get served by Kuna or United Water. But, basically, they won't cross north of that boundary. Along this line there will be an agreement, which we started working on, we are -- we have our -- our water lawyer, in conjunction with the city attorney's office, drafting up an agreement that will start here over the next week and, hopefully, finish up by roughly end of February. By the way, anybody who is lacking a map or needs better clarification, there is about 20 maps or so on the back desk there, if people are interested. As far as the options we are evaluating with Kuna, we met with them several times over the last month and we came up with an option -- if you follow along here, Lake Hazel, following the blue line, drops all the way down, and, then, eventually, hits Kuna Road and, then, follows up along the Boise boundary. That was -- that was a negotiated -- a joint meeting between our mayor, Kuna's mayor, and both engineering staffs. Since, then, they contacted me with regard to this area down here to the very south and, apparently, they have some residents there that really would prefer, according to Kuna, would prefer to be within Kuna's area of impact and I guess because they opened the door, I know that we have - - we have a landowner who's interested in becoming part of Meridian. So, what we have done here in conjunction with the blue line, which was originally negotiated, is we have added this yellow line, which is sort of an option. So, basically, we would carve off the bottom tip of that south area and trade it. That's not exactly a fair trade, there is, you know, three square miles here and two there, but I think -- I think it sort of makes a little more sense if both sets of those landowners do want to sort of trade places with each other, that -- I guess that -- to me that makes sense. The red areas that you see there are United Water certificated areas that they are applying for. The red area right here is LOS church and we would be protesting that and allowing this one here to go through. Again, as part of this gray line we would -- they would back off this LOS church, we would let this area go through, and we would agree with some conditions on how to resolve that gray line once development occurs. So, I'm sort of throwing three different scenarios in there. At this point I'm not asking for anything as far as United Water, other than if you see any serious concerns, then, we probably ought to stop working on that agreement. As far as the Kuna area, I'm looking for some guidance on Meridian City Council January 24, 2006 Page 29 of 55 whether you think the yellow option is a better option than the blue option. One other thing that you might note on your -- at least on your printouts, the light blue area there represents all of the parcels with Kuna -- or, sorry, with Meridian addresses and they do basically go all the way down to Hubbard, just for interest. Now, I know Anna's got quite a few comments in addition. Okay. I think you have all received a page worth of comments there, but do you have any questions for me at this time? De Weerd: Council, do you have any questions for Len at this time? Bird: I have none. De Weerd: Okay. None? Grady: I do know that one of the developers would like to speak to this also. De Weerd: Okay. Thank you, Len. And, again, there is a couple of different items of this discussion and a couple of -- I guess there is a sewer service area and there is an area of impact area. So, as Anna talks about some of the activities in partnership with Ada County and Kuna to look at land use, there is a separation of some of the discussions that we have had in terms of service area for sewer. Grady: And that's a very good point. I have made it clear and -- as best I can with Kuna, that this line, should we sort of choose to adopt it, it does need to be tied in with a sewer concept plan and that sewer concept plan, the city engineer will start working with that here in the next day or two and that will lay down ground rules, like we don't want another -- we don't want a Kuna plant in Mason Creek. I mean we are putting one there. If they decide to put one in there, we are going to be in a fist fight here to try to figure out how this is going to get sewered. So, over the next month or so we will work out those types of details, where the plant goes, can we run sewer lines through the corners of Kuna to make it easier on our sewerability, that type of stuff. So, this is, really, step one of two and you could argue this is even the easiest of the two steps, so - De Weerd: Well, I don't know if they'd agree with you necessarily on that and just to clarify any fist fight type of definition, we have applied for the permit for discharge into Mason Creek and there will be only one. So, I don't think there will be a fight in that regard. It's just to get some clarity to this. The lines were drawn -- and I do want to give some clarity to that as well. The lines were drawn in attempt to make sure that as we look at servicing the Mason Creek area, it was a good business decision for Meridian and that our rate payers would not be unduly burdened with planning for this area, should we, then, plan for the appropriate sizes of our sewer lines and that sort of thing. So, in trying to reach some consensus with Kuna, it was with that in mind. Then, both of us needed to go back to our councils and give this information for your feedback and that's what we are doing right now. So, Anna, with that I will turn this over to you. Meridian City Council January 24, 2006 Page 30 of 55 Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I raise a fourth issue and that's once this line is drawn what am I doing with it and I want to -- I do have some things I want to discuss now. You usually don't get this much out of me. We have talked about going forward with a Comprehensive Plan amendment for this area. The first thought when I discussed this at budget hearings last summer was that it would be a joint public participation effort between Kuna, between Ada County, and not trying to decide any land uses at that time, just public participation. For various reasons the pace picked up, the need to clarify those land uses became kind of the most important aspect of that in some ways -- or more important aspect of that in some ways, so we were just going to move forward with a reduced public participation study and go ahead and include the land use issues. On the first study I had begun working with Ada County and with Kuna and we had a consultant selected, we had a scope, I retained the same consultant, I had him revise the scope, I was still working with Ada County, because I was -- wanted to keep that relationship going working with them to do this Comprehensive Plan, so that when the area of city impact process or amendment process started that we were on the same page and we could coordinate. Well, they started getting excited about the idea of maybe yet a third option and that's what I'm bringing forward to you and it would be -- again, going back to this idea of a joint public participation and land use planning and the county has committed to working on this, they have taken it up to the county commissioners, they have expressed an interest in it, and what they would like to do is they are in the middle of a comp plan process and they would like to make it a sub area plan. So, it would be a -- what this project would be, this joint effort, it would be, essentially, doing three comp plans at the same time. I mean we were the only ones that know it's three of them. To the general public it will seem like one. But it would serve as the Meridian Comprehensive Plan, it would serve as the Kuna -- or a portion of it would serve as that,' a portion would serve as the Kuna Comprehensive Plan and, then, it would be also a sub area plan for the county. Now, this might sound like a new term, one that you have never heard before and would it be, this would be -- they are starting work on one north of Eagle and this would be one here that -- the first one to really deal with the city to city issues, rather than the rural issues. It would still have a -- by doing it jointly, it would be an enhanced public participation. I really fear that one of the things that will become a problem if we decide to go ahead and just move forward on our own would be that -- this same group of folks are going to start getting inquiries about the Kuna Comprehensive Plan, the Ada County Comprehensive Plan, and the Meridian Comprehensive Plan and, you know, if you're on the south side of Lake Hazel and you show up for the Meridian one and we are going to tell you, well, you're welcome to stay, but this doesn't affect you and vice-versa, if you're on the north side and you show up at the Kuna meeting, then, they are -- you know, nice that you're here, but this isn't going to affect you at all. So, at least we have everybody coming to one set of public participation meetings, rather than trying to divide them up and get them to the right place and will be overlapping -- De Weerd: Well, Anna, I might add that when Council approved this budget item, this is kind of what we had anticipated it to be. Anna: Yes, ma'am. Meridian City Council January 24, 2006 Page 31 of 55 De Weerd: We thought that -- we had already talked to the county, the county was wanting to enter into a public process with us, and we thought Kuna was, then, Kuna pulled out and it didn't make as much sense anymore, so we went more the direction of the Comprehensive Plan. Now, with, I think, Ada County's help, they have helped us pull Kuna back into it and maybe because we have resolved or we have come closer on some of the sewer issues that they are back in the picture again. So, it's kind of come full circle. Canning: Yes, ma'am. The other advantage of the joint plan is that it's really looking beyond our borders. We could do a coordinated transportation and land use planning. It really puts the principles of good blueprint for good growth into action. It would be -- a lot of the issues we have talked about as far as working with the county as far as inter- city governmental coordination, this would just be, really, a prime example -- or we could set a prime example of how to do this. It also brings some additional tools to the hearing process, in particular, Ada County has committed to maybe -- or not committed to maybe -- has committed to one of their staff members doing some visual simulations that we hadn't originally counted on and it's an infrastructure analysis. It's just a kind of gross look at the comparisons of different land use patterns. It's not an actual infrastructural analysis, such as the Public Works Department would do. It also brings additional tools to the area of city impact process and that's the ability to really integrate these implementation strategies into the sub area plan, so that they could easily be folded into the area of city impact agreement. And, presumably, it would shorten that negotiation process. It also has the potential to reduce the conflict or if there is conflict between the city of Kuna and the city of Meridian. I think the county's real interest that they have stated numerous times is they just don't want another Star and Eagle debacle, if that's not too strong a word to use. So, they are looking at this as a process to maybe alleviate some of those conflicts. I have to admit that it's going to be a much greater challenge for staff to figure out a scope of work on how this is going to work, to work with two other jurisdictions to get this done, but I really do feel it's the right thing to do. So, the question is if we do this joint effort, how does this affect the need to move forward with the development opportunities available in the area. It would mean a delay in the Comprehensive Plan by six months and I would structure that scope of work, so that we would be targeting for a December submittal. Right now we are targeting for a June submittal and I have to admit I'm anxious about what kind of product we could get submitted by June at this point, because it is getting late, so -- but we would target for a December submittal. I'm limited to submitting Comprehensive Plan amendments now to June and December, so that's why I use those two dates. So, there would be a corresponding delay in the ability of the city to annex properties by six months. Now, I recognize that this is probably not acceptable, so I'm proposing also kind of a concurrent text amendment to the Unified Development Code and what that would be is to establish a new zoning district and it would be clear in the purpose statements that this was a holding zone or a holding district. It wouldn't grant any additional development rights to the property owners, they would be vested with what they were annexed with, and, then, the developer could rezone that property once the Comprehensive Plan amendment is submitted on the property. So, you would get some Meridian City Council January 24, 2006 Page 32 of 55 X zone when you were annexed, you could be annexed, you could say you were annexed -- you would have to wait for the Comp Plan still to rezone, because the problem with annexing outside an area that we have a Comprehensive Plan for is that that is one of your findings is that that annexation and zoning is consistent with the Comprehensive Plan. So, this holding zone would give you a way to annex those properties in one that kind of -- a zone kind of insists that you wait for a Comprehensive Plan plan amendment and so the Comp Plan -- again, they could submit -- they being -- an applicant could submit for annexation current with when I turned in the Comprehensive Plan amendment. They may have to wait as it goes through perhaps a lengthier Public Hearing process than a regular application would, but they can submit concurrent with that and that would be December of 2006. So, that should meet the time line set we have heard expressed by those folks wanting to annex. So, staff is kind of recommending this joint effort at this point, but there is still -- the Meridian only effort is still a viable option. Certainly, easier for staff in your -- the Comprehensive Plan will likely get done sooner and the city would be able to react sooner to development concerns and, again, that is June versus December of 2006. So, that's -- any questions regarding that topic? De Weerd: Council, any questions for Anna? Bird: I have none, Madam Mayor. De Weerd: All right. You might note that Pete is here. Canning: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yes. Sorry. I had it on my notes. We have representatives from both the City of Kuna and Ada County here. I'd like to -- Pete Friedman, can you stand up? Pete is the Comprehensive Plan division chief -- I don't know his exact title. But, you know, he's from Ada County Development Services and I have been working with him quite a bit on this project, as well as the Ada County comprehensive plan. I'm on their steering committee. So, we have been doing a lot of work together lately. And, then, we have Lisa Bachman from the City of Kuna and she is an assistant planner? Planner II. Sorry. The equivalent to our associate planners. For the City of Kuna. De Weerd: Well, thank you both for joining us. Do you have anything you would like to add? If you do, please, come forward. If you will just state your name for the record. Friedman: Sure. Thank you, Madam Mayor, Council. For the record, my name is Pete Friedman and I'm a planner with Ada County Development Services. And this was kind of a unique concept that I sort of threw out to Anna. Originally, she had asked both myself and the City of Kuna to participate back with her first thought RFP and started going through that and, then, she called me after receiving my comments and said, well, I'm sort of changing direction. We might be moving towards a Comprehensive Plan Amendment and I started thinking, well, we are in the process of updating our Comprehensive Plan now and as Anna had indicated, we are trying out a new approach in that we are developing sort of an overall umbrella policy document for the county, but Meridian City Council January 24, 2006 Page 33 of 55 we are also working on a more specific area plan and those two tracks occur in a parallel fashion. In looking at the consultant team that Anna put together, I thought, well, you know, there is some efficiencies that could be achieved here, because we have an area we are working in right now that's pretty wide open and pretty rural. We are also now looking at an area that's going to be experiencing some significant growth challenges over the next couple of years and it didn't really seem to make sense to me to have these two or three efforts going on by themselves. So, I kind of -- we have kind of discussed this. She sat down with my director Gerry Armstrong the other day, we have talked about some of the in-kind services we can provide through staffing and some of the new tools that we are bringing on board in our department and, then, we agreed that if the two councils were favorable to this idea, then, we could start looking at, you know, what our possible commitments to this would be also. I ran this by the board of commissioners the other day, saying we were entering into these discussions, and without making any commitments, they did encourage us to go ahead and continue the conversation and the dialogue. So, I think where we are at right now is, you know, waiting to see where the two councils go and if it's affirmative, then, start sitting down with Anna and Diana in Kuna looking at some numbers and our staffing and proceeding from there. We are, actually, pretty excited about this -- the possibilities, so that we are not getting hit also with one or two area of impact exercises of having to evaluate two or three different Comprehensive Plans or having a situation occur where we have, you know, a void in our plan and, you know, just having something we can pick up that all three jurisdictions have agreed to and, then, it can be, then, folded into your individual cities. So, that's where we are at right now. De Weerd: And I think it's also worth noting, Pete, that you're here on your day off and so that is how committed he is to this process and I really appreciate that. I think it's important, as Anna has noted, that the residents -- I think that that would be an expectation that we all work together and it's certainly a goal that we had when we first proposed this, that there is a lot of -- Kuna is going to be dealing with the same thing we are. There is a lot of county clusters already built that are anticipated to develop urban around them, that as we learn from Kingsbridge, that it doesn't always work in the fashion that when some of these ideas came up with, that it's not as smooth as it once was thought to be. Friedman: I think, Mayor, that's one of challenges that we are going to be looking at overall with our comprehensive planning process and looking at what's been done in the past and how do we maybe come up with some new approaches, so -- De Weerd: Appreciate that. Thanks for joining us. Council, any questions? Rountree: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes, Charlie. Meridian City Council January 24, 2006 Page 34 of 55 Rountree: Pete, I just want to make sure I heard you right and it seems that -- I think you have the same kind of feeling I do about the opportunities here, if we can work together. Friedman: Uh-huh. Rountree: And I know you can't speak for your board of commissioners, but it sounded like if there is a willingness on all the parties, there is probably a willingness of the county commissioners to participate financially. Friedman: Yeah. I think, councilmember, I think the devils will be in the details and that's something we would have to work out with Anna and Kuna and, then, I'd have to go back and we take a look at our budget. As Anna had indicated, there is -- we have a new staff member -- the board has been really interested -- there is a software program out there called Community Viz and it does any number of things. It does visualization, it does alternative analysis, it can do anything from lot sizes to -- but it also does financial analysis in terms of sewer pipe sizing and road sizing and, you know, the different alternatives and we have brought a staff member on board and one of her primary responsibilities is to be a modeler utilizing Community Viz. She has a very strong background in GIS. We have to do some training over the next month or two for her, but we thought this would be a good opportunity to fold her into this process and maybe start utilizing that tool also. So, you know, obviously, it would -- I'd have to go back and look at the budget, we'd have to take that to the board. Rountree: Thank you. De Weerd: It sounds like with that software you can eliminate most of your staff. Friedman: Well, not entirely. I think some of them have been working hard enough they wouldn't mind a little assistance if they could just push the buttons, but-- De Weerd: Any other questions, Council? Okay. Thank you, Pete. Friedman: Thank you. De Weerd: Do you have any comments? Okay. If you will state your name for the record. Bachman: My name is Lisa Bachman. I work for the City of Kuna. Madam Mayor and Council, I, actually, wasn't prepared to speak or do any presentations. I was under the impression there was just going to be a discussion -- De Weerd: We are -- we are informal. Bachman: -- and not -- right. And not necessarily a decision tonight on the Southern Meridian proposed area of impact boundary. I guess if I may ask a question, I was just Meridian City Council January 24, 2006 Page 35 of 55 wondering if that was going to be decided tonight and if that's going to be official or if there is going to be a Public Hearing that we could partake in. De Weerd: This is an item just for the discussion to get feedback from Council and give staff an idea of direction, as well to give an idea to Kuna what -- what the general ideas were. Bachman: Okay. De Weerd: Certainly, the reason -- I guess for you and for Council at this point, when -- we have had discussions between the sewer side of things and the discussions I have had with Mayor Obray is he wanted a permanent line and certainly a permanent line for us was needed almost in terms of do we agree to sewer an area that wouldn't be Meridian's and would it at least be 50 percent for us to make it a good business choice for our city and for rate payers. And so when we last got together Mayor Obray had come with lines and it was slightly modified to what you see in the blue line. This compromise I think is what feedback your city engineer gave our Public Works Department and wanting those two southern square miles and this is their idea. If you -- at that point we were at a 50-50 in the sewer-ability, so I think as Len said, it was kind of his attempt to -- to balance the sewer area, so that it still was a good business choice, as well as what has been requested by property owners in that area, too. So, I don't think that Council is being asked to draw a firm line in the sand, I still think that that is going to be an exercise in the public participation, but as you go to the public, you do want to come with a plan that they can comment on. Bachman: Okay. De Weerd: I know that didn't answer your question directly. Bachman: Basically, are you going -- I guess what I was wondering is if you will be deciding if you're going to go ahead with the blue line or the yellow line, to go forward with your Comp Plan study. De Weerd: I just talk. They have the vote. Council, anyone want to attempt an answer? Wardle: Madam Mayor, I think we are certainly going to get to that after we hear from a couple other people and some of the staff members, we should probably be able to give you at least a preference to go home with this evening. Bachman: Okay. Just the concern there, if I may, Madam Mayor and Council. The Mayor and Diana Sanders, the Planning Director, came to me today -- they are, actually, at the town hall meeting tonight for Kuna. Otherwise, they would have been here. They quickly briefed me kind of on the history, which you verified, on the boundaries that have been discussed and they were under the impression that we had kind of an agreement on the blue line and they were sort of surprised to learn today Meridian City Council January 24, 2006 Page 36 of 55 about the yellow line. And I guess we just wanted to be able, as Anna was stating and Pete, through agreeing on the new area of impact southern boundary for you, northern boundary for Kuna, we would like to come to an agreement prior to going forward with an integrated study that they talked about. So, we want to do the integrated study, we want to work together with Ada County, Meridian, Kuna, and together we think that would be in the best interest for the community, but we feel that this boundary should be agreed upon and established prior to going forward with integrating. De Weerd: I appreciate that and that's the first time I have seen it, too. Bachman: Okay. Yeah. We were just -- like I said, I didn't have anything formally prepared. De Weerd: But I do believe that -- Len, their City Engineer came back to you and said that they -- you needed to move the most southern line up a mile. Grady: Madam Mayor, Bill Nary and myself attended a -- sort of a workshop at Kuna last week and during that workshop they actually approached us with the concept of carving some of Meridian's area of impact off and I thought, well, beings we are considering that, we also need to consider adding some back. So, they opened the door and we sort of took that opportunity to make an adjustment. And I did -- it shouldn't have been a surprise. I did let Keven Shreeves, the City Engineer, know yesterday that we finally had the yellow line at least in concept and so that there wouldn't be a surprise, so -- De Weerd: Okay. Well, if we -- if Council would like you to -- if you have additional comment after we have heard from everyone, certainly we will invite you to come forward again. Bachman: Okay. De Weerd: Okay. Thanks, Lisa. Okay. We have additional comment. If you will, please, state your name for the record. Johnson: I'm Greg Johnson. I reside at 1280 East Pienza in Meridian. De Weerd: Thank you. Johnson: Thanks. First of all, I would like to get -- I didn't understand fully what Anna was talking about on timing. Anna, the dates of June and December that you're discussing, is that for an additional comp plan to the sub area plan that is being -- would be worked out with the county? Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, we are only proposing one plan. Meridian would adopt an Ada -- a Meridian -- south Meridian Comprehensive Plan. We wouldn't adopt an Ada County sub area plan, Ada County will do that. So, it's just -- it Meridian City Council January 24, 2006 Page 37 of 55 would just be our Comprehensive Plan amendment to the line -- whatever, blue, yellow, fuchsia, magenta line that may be. Johnson: But the land use would be the process that we are going through if we go through this with the county, that -- that would all be discussed and decided in that process, wouldn't it? Canning: Yes, sir. Along with a collector road system, things like that. Johnson: So, once that's in place, couldn't that simply be adopted by the City of Meridian? Canning: That's the idea. Yeah. Johnson: Okay. I guess I'm confused at the time frame, then. Canning: I have to package it in a Comprehensive Plan amendment. We are all working on Comprehensive Plan amendments at the same time that need to meet the requirements of our various jurisdictions. Johnson: Okay. So, for land in this area, then, what would be the soonest that we could apply for annexation, zoning, and a preliminary plat? Canning: The annexation and the zoning with the Unified Development Code text amendment could occur as soon as I can get that text amendment done, which if I submit it by the 15th, it would get up to Council four to five months later. The actual approvals, the soonest you could submit for development approvals would be December of 2006. Johnson: But it could be annexed prior to that? Canning: Yes, sir. Johnson: But you wouldn't review a preliminary plat or a specific zoning? Canning: No. But we would -- as a major landholder in the area, you would certainly be included with any of the planning discussions. Johnson: So, if it was -- if that proposal for annexation that was in compliance with what was being discussed at the county, we could proceed immediately after December, if that's the date when it -- Canning: You could submit it December 15th concurrent with my Comprehensive Plan amendment and they would travel together to Planning and Zoning Commission and City Council. Meridian City Council January 24, 2006 Page 38 of 55 Johnson: Okay. Canning: And I apologize, Madam Mayor, Members of Council, this all came up starting yesterday. I figured this whole thing out at 5:00 and I didn't have an opportunity to notify some of the interested parties, Mr. Johnson being one of them, so -- Johnson: That's okay, Anna. I probably wouldn't have understood anyway. Just to give you a little history on this. To the -- is there a pointer here? Bird: It's on a little chain right there, Greg. Johnson: Okay. This area in brown is currently by the designation of blue designated to go into the Kuna area. I also -- it's approximately 600 acres. There is -- plus or minus. In this section and this section and in this section here we have another total of approximately 800 acres there. When Len and Anna and others began discussing the idea that possibly the City of Meridian was willing to put a pump station over here along Mason Creek and pump this back to your sewage system and, then, later build a treatment plant there -- I acquired this ground between 1998 and 2003 and some of it is still under contract and hasn't been closed, but the majority of it's closed. We have been -- in fact, Anna Canning in her previous employment worked three years with me on a good portion of this site, with the idea of doing a planned community in the county with this parcel. Part of it has since been preliminary platted for non-farm subdivisions in the county, which we prefer not to do. They are inactive plats that we have extended, but we are not planning on developing. We have tried a number of times to annex to Kuna and even offered to build a treatment system for them. We have been denied on all those accounts. It has been a long and expensive process. When the opportunity came that Meridian was willing and able to come to this area with sewer and wanted to, I was more than happy to cooperate. The one thing that I did ask both Len and Anna is if you decide to put this in your impact area, please, take all of it. Don't put me in the middle of the two cities. And Mason Creek drainage -- basically the -- I believe the lift station is approximately there. Is that correct, Len? Grady: That's correct. Johnson: Mason Creek drainage comes right through here, splits my property, flows all the way through. It really is where the main trunk line to drain the Mason Creek drainage should be built. It drains that entire area between the Kuna lateral and the ridge -- the ridge that runs down through this property. There is a canal that runs along there. It's the center of the drainage and if you're going to sewer it, it logically is where the trunk line should be built. A few weeks ago when this blue line was drawn, I met with the Mayor of Kuna and the city -- part of the city council people, we discussed sewer. If Meridian was going to provide the sewer I wanted to build Meridian sewer. They were very adamant that if it's in Kuna that Kuna will own the trunk lines and will own the distribution lines and they mayor may not sell sewage to Meridian. So, I would just ask that which ever way you decide, draw the line and -- but don't put me in the middle of the conflict between the two cities. I need to deal with one or the other or do a Meridian City Council January 24, 2006 Page 39 of 55 planned community in the county and build my own sewer treatment plant. But I need to know which direction it's going to go here pretty soon and I would really like to work with the City of Meridian. You have been good to work with in the past. Sometimes you have asked me to wait a little bit. We might not have done so patiently, but we waited and -- De Weerd: Talk about understatements. Johnson: You know, I think we have had a good working relationship with the city and we want to continue to. We would love to have this property served by you, but it -- and I think it's fairly critical if Meridian is going to serve the Mason Creek area, that you run your trunk lines through here so that you can. De Weerd: Now, Len, I guess I -- since you were at the meeting last week, what did the statement mean that Greg thought he heard from Kuna, that if they do Mason Creek they mayor may not do sewer to Meridian. What does that mean? Grady: I'd just be speculating. Until we get this -- De Weerd: That's not what they said at the meeting? Grady: No. Their indications were -- they were concerned that we were going to force our sewer services on them and I said, no, that's not the case, we -- I don't see why we would force our services on anybody. If they choose to take advantage of a regional lift station, we need to know up front and we need to work out that agreement. If they choose to go their own way with lift stations and ponds, we need to know that up front also, so we can size our lines. I'm not sure -- De Weerd: So, Len, they are still -- they will have not made a decision, then, on -- that we would service that Mason Creek area and that they would -- they would have an agreement with us similar to the Eagle-Boise agreement or Boise-Garden City agreement that they would -- that we would treat their sewer. Grady: When Bill and myself met with them, they had four options on the board showing various ways of financing their sewer options. When asked about what we could provide, I said, you know, obviously, if it makes sense to our taxpayers and your taxpayers, we are going to be virtually doubling our plant capacity here in the next year or, you know, maybe it makes sense that we could work out an agreement to take your sewer until you get some other facilities online, we get cash flow, it saves them -- it saves them cash flow. If it makes sense, we should do that. There was what I would consider some interest in that option -- and this is just pure speculation on my point, but definitely the crux of their discussion seemed to be focused around going their own way. Johnson: Maybe I didn't explain it clearly. If they annex it and approve a plat, they want to own all of the infrastructure within the subdivision. Sewer. Water. Pressurize irrigation. All of those facilities. At this point they are still proposing to treat it with their Meridian City Council January 24, 2006 Page 40 of 55 own treatment system. The issue I have with that is they would like us as developers to fund the treatment plant. My portion of the treatment plant would be about eight million dollars. The interest on eight million dollars in a year at current rates is about 800,000. They are willing to issue me over the next three years 100 permits a year. That only allows me to debt service half of that interest, let alone no principal. And so, you know, I have told them that that's not a reasonable proposal. They have got to let me develop at market rates, so that if the market will bear it I could develop 500 or 600 lots to repay that eight million dollars fairly quickly, so that we can get that debt off of our books. If we were to develop in the county and had control of our own, then, we could payoff that sewer treatment plant rapidly. Or if we developed in the county and could sell sewer to Meridian, that wouldn't be an issue, we would pay for those as we issue building permits, similar to what we do now. So, Kuna has two options. They can have their voters approve a bond issue that would build a sewer treatment plant, which they don't feel will be approved and/or they can go to an LID. The reason I would prefer to be in the City of Meridian is even with that LID, I'm not confident that a sewer treatment plant will get approved by DEQ in that area in less than five or six years, because there are no streams there that are live streams. So, it's not a normal discharge permit into a Boise River or a canal or a drain ditch that flows year around. It's a dry stream. Both Indian Creek dry up -- and Indian Creek also is complicated, because it is operated by Boise Project and, therefore, water dumped into there where they eventually get into Lake Lowell, so that I'm not really confident that if I had money right now we would have sewer there for six or seven years and I would really prefer to go this route. De Weerd: I guess for Councilman Borton, one of our goals -- and talking about sewer in this area -- and we were working towards a regional concept. We feel that set aside any areas of impact, this is a region -- and probably one entity could best serve it, in particular in that Mason Creek area. There is going to be future challenges for some of the county subs that will most likely need city services and so we wanted to look at it as a -- as a region and that is why we approached them. We knew their time frame, we knew they were almost out of sewer capacity, and they needed to do something. We wanted to make sure there was enough time for all the affected entities to look at it as a region. So, we even offered the lift station idea to come and get them out of the urgency of doing something hastily that might affect the long-term health of that region. We did go ahead and proceed to look at the Mason Creek drainage, that it would be an area we would serve, since we did have service needs even in our reference area that we would need to serve as well. So, there was a service need and a sewer need. So, we needed to look at what our -- our options were. I guess that's what's got us to this point. Still, I guess I didn't realize they were not looking at just that one option. As we left that room with Mayor Obray, that was what I walked away with, is we were looking at the Mason Creek area as an area that only one person served and that would be Meridian. Grady: Just along those same lines, Madam Mayor, is I did have a follow-up conversation with Keven Shreeve and he did inform me that a Mason Creek plant was still on the books and that's why we went over to their workshop to find out, first of all, if it truly did seem like it was still on the books and how exactly were they going to fund it. Meridian City Council January 24, 2006 Page 41 of 55 Prior to that -- or during that workshop I did emphasize that this line that we have drawn is contingent on only one regional lift station plant in that area and Mayor Obray did confirm that -- and I think his exact words were that we did beat him to the punch. We have already applied for a discharge permit and he would probably end up backing off and going to Indian Creek with his plant. But, again, I didn't get a real good feeling that they were interested in taking advantage of our regional solution. De Weerd: Oh. Okay. Johnson: I believe with the Indian Creek proposal they would still put in lift stations that would, then, pump that sewage over to that treatment plant. De Weerd: Okay. Johnson: That's my understanding anyway. Approximately at Ten Mile and Lake Hazel. De Weerd: Okay. Council, any questions for Mr. Johnson? Bird: I have none, Madam Mayor. De Weerd: Okay. Anything further? Rountree: Thanks for the input and the kind words. De Weerd: Thank you. Any other comments? Lisa, any follow up? Bachman: Again, for the record, my name is Lisa Bachman. I guess -- I don't know if I can really request this, but I am requesting that a decision not be made tonight on the southern line and that we coordinate some sort of workshop with the City of Kuna or some sort of meeting where it could all be discussed and agreed upon, so that we don't have a situation that Pete referenced to like an Eagle and Star. I'm just being kind of blunt about it. I think it would be beneficial to both cities to be in agreement and not have any -- basically, we want to be given a chance to discuss this and not have just -- a decision made tonight where there has just been these little -- these meetings that weren't really official, because this is outside of what was talked about in the meeting, is what I understand. So, I don't know if you were going to make a decision tonight or if you could possibly postpone and maybe schedule a workshop of some sort with the city of Kuna. De Weerd: Well, that would be at the direction of Council, but since you want to be a little blunt, I will be a little blunt, too. We have offered time and time again to meet with Kuna and we have had very little response. And so it has been a very frustrating exercise. I can tell you the information I get has been extremely moving target and we have been accused of stonewalling, we have reached out and have contacted -- I won't tell you what -- my staff has had nothing but integrity and has met with stonewalls from Meridian City Council January 24, 2006 Page 42 of 55 Kuna that have been very frustrating. So, I would like to say, you know, I appreciate what position you're in tonight as well and I don't think that in light of our public noticing we are going to make a decision. But Council needs to give our staff direction on their preferences and how they want us to move forward. That's not a line firmly drawn, but at least it gives us something to go back and talk with your city about and I think it's very fair to offer a joint meeting. We have been at the table numerous times for Kuna. Bachman: Right. And, you know, that was the whole point in me coming tonight, basically, was that they felt that they had discussed the blue line, but the yellow line they hadn't had a chance to discuss with anybody from the city. So, they just wanted me to see if we could talk about that again before you make a decision. That's all. De Weerd: Uh-huh. Kind of líke it moved last time when we happened over there and they didn't tell us. So, we all need to get better at this communication thing. Bachman: I completely agree with you. De Weerd: Mr. Wardle. Wardle: Madam Mayor, just for clarification, talking about official meetings. This is the second of meetings that I know that the entire Council has been involved in. The first was our joint meeting which we noticed and met with DEQ and a number of Kuna representatives, including the mayor and council members. So, certainly, this -- in October and certainly this is a follow up to that meeting, just to clarify for the record. Bachman: Okay. Thank you. Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council -- and not -- if I'm not mistaken -- and maybe Mr. Nary can help me out, but I don't think the line becomes, quote, unquote, official until you adopt a Comprehensive Plan amendment that sets it as the boundary. So, that is a ways down the road. De Weerd: And I think it is -- has been fairly stated that it still would go through a public process and that wouldn't necessarily mean that that wouldn't move either. I know it would be the preference of all staff to kind of have a line that they could take to the public and to discuss specifically and I know that's kind of what the county has indicated, too. It would be nice if the cities could come up with a line and I think for the public we would be doing them a good service to come up with a line. But it's -- I don't know if it's always that easy. But we will find out, because we have a reasonable Council. Rountree: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Rountree. Meridian City Council January 24, 2006 Page 43 of 55 Rountree: I agree with what Anna said. I think at this point to draw a line in the sand is premature. It is a public process that needs to be done. We have heard from Mr. Johnson that he didn't necessarily participate in drawing the blue line, yet he's on the side of the blue line that he -- if he had his druthers he would be on the other side of the blue line. So, it does take the communities getting together and listening to the public. Certainly there is going to be people that want to be in Meridian, there is going to be people that want to be in Kuna, and there is going to be people that don't want to be either/or. And I think we need to hear that and I would hope that we can come together as civilized communities and work through this process for the betterment of everybody that lives in this area. The reality is it is going to develop at some point in time. How best can we look at that and how best can we have that happen and occur at the most reasonable expenditure of public funds? That, in my mind, requires the public process and it requires a public process that does include all the entities, as well as all the citizenry. I think we do both the communities a disservice if we take out on our own and I think we need the county in there to participate as well, because they are going to be -- they balance this in the end anyway by statute. No matter how you want to slice it, they are going to make the final call. So, I don't think at this point that the dialogue ought to be about a line, we ought to have some general agreement that maybe there is a gray swatch through there right now, because I have heard that we had a blue line and, then, we have had some dialogue and now we have got a yellow line and it's a balancing process. Let's go through the public involvement process, let's go through the planning process, let's find where that line best ought to be. It might, more than likely, become a green line. De Weerd: What's a green line? Rountree: Blue and yellow make green. De Weerd: Yes. Thank you for that clarification. Rountree: Your physics lesson. De Weerd: Primary colors. Rountree: Yes. Grady: Madam Mayor, that exact concept was what I threw out to Keven Shreeve initially, was that we throw a gray area around that and get public input. Unfortunately, I believe Kuna has several annexation paths which they have been very aggressively pushing forward and, basically, I think until we find out -- until we can sort of -- I mean if we spend 12 months with a comp plan and they are annexing north with several different paths, that's -- we are going to be left behind. I think the whole process -- the whole reason we sort of pushed so hard was because of their aggressive push north. If we could put an end to that, I would fully agree that some sort of logical decision could be made. Meridian City Council January 24, 2006 Page 44 of 55 Wardle: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Wardle. Wardle: Just to follow up on staff's comments and one of the things that I have understood to be a policy of the City of Meridian, which I believe staff, in drawing a new yellow line, has put into place and that is, as I understand it, the City of Meridian -- its growth patterns has tried to submit to the requests of property owners which are affected and so when I -- it didn't surprise me when Len said property owners in a portion of the area wanted to go to Kuna and, then, another portion of people wanted to come to Meridian. The staff would just make that change, because I think it's been something the City of Meridian has done in the past when people ask to be annexed or to bring their properties into the city, it has become commonplace for us to do that. I agree with Councilman Rountree that we certainly need much more public involvement, but in regard to staff drawing that yellow line, I think we just took it right out of a play book that we have been doing for years as a city, so certainly something to be considered. De Weerd: I guess I just offer one more thought and in the need for a line at some point and it's in planning our sewer. If Kuna doesn't need -- if they want to discharge into Indian Creek and they are going to pump something somewhere, we need to size our pipes accordingly to serve the land that is being desired to be brought into our city and we need to be planning for that, even as the county and the two cities move forward with the land use side of it, if the commitment is to serve a certain area, we have to start planning for that. Watson: I have been listening to this and Len and Anna have done a good job and I have really enjoyed the dialogue in getting some direction. It really helps to have this out in the open for us. Len and I have spent so many hours discussing this over the last several months that it's almost like, oh, man, let's take a day off of that subject. De Weerd: We did have a moratorium on that subject for a couple days. Watson: I did impose a moratorium for three days one time on Kuna issues and south area issues. The one thing that I just want to make sure everyone's aware of as far as public works and the sewer issues are concerned is we have multiple contracts out there right now. The term I used earlier today in our meeting was we are going to blow and go on this and what makes that difficult without a line is we don't know how big of a blow and go we need to have, because we can't get a commitment from the city to the south. All I'm saying is there may be a little bit of wasted effort here in the next few months, because we are going to plan big, with the understanding that eventually they will want to buy some capacity from us. The only other thing I want to point out and make it very clear that if we do have a joint meeting and we are asked questions during that joint meeting, those should be given to us in advance, because to date we have shown up at meetings and been asked questions cold, very technical questions that we can't answer. And I think that may be where that phrase stonewalling may have come Meridian City Council January 24, 2006 Page 45 of 55 from in past correspondence. I had ask repeatedly for written questions, detailed questions, so that I can put some thought to them and answer them. So, if we do schedule something, those need to be addressed to you, I think, and passed on down to staff. De Weerd: Brad, I think you need to give Council an idea of what kind of time frame you need to make the appropriate plans for sizing of pipe and, then, you just set a deadline to Kuna, because we need to move forward with our own planning and I think we have gone on long enough that we are at that point where we have to paint or get off the ladder. I just heard that last week. Watson: That's much better for a public hearing. De Weerd: I kind of like that one. Nary: That's not the way I heard it. Bird: That's not the way I used to say it. De Weerd: But I guess, you know -- and I think their council's also at that point where they have to make a decision for their citizens on how they are going to move forward. So, you need to look at it internally as far as when decisions need to be made and set a deadline, so that we can move forward with the planning that we have committed to -- to all these other properties in south Meridian, not just the properties that are not in agreement with right now, so -- and if Council feels comfortable with that, I guess, then, staff can come back with some time frames and give you a clear indication of what they will likely plan for based on what they hear back from Kuna. Watson: We can do that. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: I agree with just what you said, let the staff do that, but I also think we need to make one more attempt to get with Kuna, like Councilman Wardle said, we met with them once down there and, then, it's kind of been stonewalled from then on. We was supposed to have another meeting and it's been -- it was canceled and canceled and canceled. So, like Councilman Rountree, I'm not ready to draw a permanent line. I think there is a lot of -- we need a lot of public input. I'm sure there is a lot of landowners that own a lot of land that would like to be flat truthful and blunt, they want to go to the place that's going to get sewer to them first. And, then, I'm sure there is some out there that could care less. So, I think we need a lot more input before we come up with a deal, but I believe we still need to drudge forward like public works has. Meridian City Council January 24, 2006 Page 46 of 55 De Weerd: Council, we have two new council members in Kuna and so if you would like us to try and set up a workshop and -- I know we have a workshop next month for our annual workshop. We have the county that we have committed to giving a tour of. We can maybe ask Kuna to come up before one of your Tuesday meetings and one of their off nights. What would be your preference? Certainly I think it needs to be in the next several weeks. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Bird. Bird: I'm wholeheartedly bringing it on one -- I don't know, do they meet twice a month? So, they have some free Tuesdays that they could come in early. I don't think you can delay this. I think we need to get it done. Wardle: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Wardle. Wardle: We can certainly expedite this, get it on a schedule, but I'm going to tell you right now that if we schedule a lunch meeting and it gets canceled the morning of, it's very difficult for our Council and the people in their professions and jobs just to cancel those meetings when we know that we would be here. So, I will work with the city clerk's office to schedule a meeting that the expectation will be full attendance and I know that we can make that happen. Bird: Good. De Weerd: Okay. Can we like shoot for -- do you meet on the first and third Tuesdays? Do you think we can schedule something for the 14th before our Council meeting? Bird: That's Valentine's Day and we will all be sweet, go along -- Nary: It's Anna's birthday. Rountree: She can bring the -- Bird: She's four days older than I am. Canning: I wanted to take the night off for my birthday, but no. De Weerd: It's a sweetheart of a deal, Anna. Bird: We will see that the clerk gets you some flowers for that -- for your birthday. Johnson: I will volunteer to pay for them. Meridian City Council January 24, 2006 Page 47 of 55 Bird: There we go. Did you hear that, Will? De Weerd: It has to be -- there is dollar -- Bird: I know you're only 29, but 29 red roses would be nice. Canning: That would be nice. Borton: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Borton. Borton: In light of the comments of Mr. Johnson and Len and Anna, for a meeting like this is it necessary for the Council to have some preliminary position if -- not drawing a line in the sand today, but if the new position in preparation for this meeting would be the yellow dotted line as we go forward, so we are not going to meet and they think we are going to talk about the blue, we think we are talking about the yellow line, it seems to make sense to me that the yellow dotted line, for discussion purposes, would be a good place for Meridian to propose that boundary to be and for Kuna to be aware of that now and be prepared to show up at that meeting to discuss that boundary. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Bird. Bird: I'd have no problem with that and I'd also -- you know, we are -- we took -- our yellow took three miles and we are only giving back basically two. I would have no problem going up to Hubbard with our line. I don't know why we need to go down. It makes sense to me, because -- I mean we are only three-quarters of a mile from Kuna's City limits down there and it would be easy -- and I think, if I remember right, that -- from one of those road it sewers back to the west and the other one, then, does sewer into Mason Creek, am I not right, Brad? Okay. De Weerd: Again, it was -- the blue line was just to give more of a 50-50 and certainly we can move that yellow line up north to go straight across on Hubbard from Linder on over. Bird: That would be my preference at this point. Nary: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Nary. Nary: I was just going to -- Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I was just going to follow up on Council member Borton's statement. I think just to clarify kind of where the Meridian City Council January 24, 2006 Page 48 of 55 staff has been on this particular issue and what's really before you tonight, because the Mayor had mentioned -- noticed this as one of the discussion points as well -- I think the staff was simply seeking some direction on some consultants and the joint effort versus doing it simply for Meridian -- Meridian's use only and, then, coordinating that effort both with the county and Kuna. I think the person from Kuna indicated that there may be an interest to Kuna on whether a joint effort is in their interest, depending on the line. I don't know if that's the same as this Council's position or not. You don't have to make that decision today. I think as Councilmember Borton and all of you have stated in various ways, you don't have to decide today where the lines belong; you certainly want to hear the public's testimony, as you stated. I think all the staffs wanting is some direction towards setting a joint meeting trying to proceed with a joint effort, unless that is not practical or that isn't desired by the other city, if that is dependent to them on where the line is to be drawn up front and Council's decision is that lines are really dependent upon the public testimony and input and sewer-ability and some other issues that have to be part of this study and southern boundary area evaluation by some other parties, then, you can certainly proceed that way. I think that's all you're really being asked to do tonight. So, I don't know that maybe the folks from Kuna understood that all you were really looking at was some direction on some studies and that these were proposed and these are simply just, again, not lines in the sand, but simply some talking points to have. But if it's not in their interest to want to make a joint effort just because the lines aren't drawn up front, then, I guess this Council would have to decide whether, then, we proceed in another fashion and still go through the public process and the other things you have already discussed. So, I just wanted to follow up just to clarify I think that's where we started was trying to make sure that we stayed on that track and I think because we have had a lot more information, that we may have kind of digressed from that a little. De Weerd: Well, I think, too, Councilman Bird was trying to be sensitive to maybe what the perspective was on Kuna's council side, so -- Borton: Madam Mayor? Grady: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Borton. If you will wait for just a minute. If you will wait for just a minute. Mr. Borton. Borton: No. My only remark was if you're moving the yellow line or discussing moving the yellow line up to Hubbard as an option, that you have that discussion and just make sure that Kuna doesn't hear about it. It seems like a little bit of horse trading there, so I thought that was an interesting remark to throw out. That's all. De Weerd: Okay. Len. Grady: Both Anna and I would appreciate at least some sort of indication, so that -- we realize that the line is -- it's going to be moved, it's -- you know, there will be some input Meridian City Council January 24, 2006 Page 49 of 55 and it may adjust, but we would at least appreciate some guidance on what the indications are, whether it's the yellow or the blue or something in between. De Weerd: Okay. Okay. Perspective on something. Johnson: I would just like to comment that-- Nary: State your name again, Greg. Johnson: Greg Johnson. At this same meeting it would be very helpful for the landowners in this area to also not only resolve where the gray line is or the green line -- I like green. Green usually indicates go. So, green is a very good -- De Weerd: Oh, my gosh. Johnson: -- color to use. Can we also get determined, though, who is serving this drainage for sewer? That both cities agree who is serving this drainage for sewer, because that's more critical to me than who I'm annexing to or -- De Weerd: And let me help you for-- Johnson: Okay. De Weerd: The Council gave direction to staff to plan a sewer system to drain into Mason Creek. That is what our staff is doing and that is what our intent is. Johnson: That's fine, as long as both cities agree. But if I annex into Kuna and they tell me I can't do that, that's a problem. Then, I get caught between the two cities. De Weerd: Well, I guess if Kuna doesn't want-- Johnson: But why couldn't we work that out? De Weerd: -- to work with Meridian for a more of a regional sewer system to where we serve an area and they serve an area within their city and buy sewer from us, then, we sewer the area if they don't want that kind of an agreement. Johnson: But I think we could at this same meeting, as long as we are all here together, we could work out that line for annexation and impact areas and also come to a final agreement, so that you're not oversizing things. De Weerd: That would be the -- that would be the hope. And the expectation, I think, then, after staff is -- we have to draw a permanent line for our sewer at some point and we would hope it would be after that meeting and that's what we asked Brad to put together is what time frame does he need that information by, so we can move forward with sizing our pipes and planning our system. Meridian City Council January 24, 2006 Page 50 of 55 Johnson: Thank you. De Weerd: Okay. Are we all on the same page? Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of Council, should I then -- I just need a little more direction on if I should wait or go forward with a joint or go forward with a Meridian effort or just wait for two weeks. De Weerd: I think you need to move forward. Wardle: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Wardle. Wardle: My preference, Anna, would be to move forward with joint effort -- Canning: Okay. Wardle: -- as opposed to Meridian going it alone. Canning: I will try to have a scope of work figured out -- that's going to be tricky -- to be able to hand out. I don't know if I will be able to get it in advance of that meeting for you to study it, but I will try and have one available for that meeting. De Weerd: And, Lisa, you will bring back to your mayor the request for February 14th joint meeting at 5:00 o'clock here at City Hall? Bachman: Yes, I will. De Weerd: Okay. And I will send him a letter inviting him and we will feed them as well. I always heard fed them and they will come, but -- and -- Johnson: Am I invited? De Weerd: Not for dinner. Nary: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes. Nary: If it's a workshop type of discussion, do you want -- sometimes the forum here is a little harder to have that. Do you want to have it at the police department? De Weerd: We will have it at the police department if the chief could check the availability. Meridian City Council January 24, 2006 Page 51 of 55 Nary: And waive the fee. De Weerd: And waive the fee. And, certainly, the public -- I mean any joint meeting -- we post all of our meetings. They are all public. So, you're certainly invited. Yes, Lisa, you will have to come up to the mike. Bachman: For the record, again, my name is Lisa Bachman. I would want to check their schedules, of course, before we set this date in stone, just to make sure. De Weerd: Okay. Bachman: So, if a different date may need to be discussed, would that be all right? De Weerd: Well-- Bachman: Give me a choice or-- De Weerd: We don't have anything available before then is the thing. Before our regular meeting. But you could get back with the clerk. Bachman: Okay. We'll contact the clerk. Wardle: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Thank you. Yes. Wardle: The clerk and I can certainly work that out. We have got an audit which will be coming forward in a presentation and some other things, but we will get them worked out. Bird: That was supposed to come forward tonight. De Weerd: It's coming forward next week is what-- Bird: The audit is coming forward on a workshop? I don't think so. That's a public -- De Weerd: Okay. Well, workshops are regular agenda, so we can work together on that. Okay. If there is no -- Council, tomorrow night is the Meth in Meridian presentation and I would love it if we had a good showing of our elected officials at that public presentation and so that is tomorrow. Doors open at 6:30. Presentation starts at 7:00 and I would love to have you join us at the middle school. Bird: And, Madam Mayor, can I add to that? Meridian City Council January 24, 2006 Page 52 of 55 De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Bird. Bird: Tell all your friends, especially the ones that's got kids ten years old -- and older to come and bring their children with them. It's something that everybody -- we don't need to have bunch of old grandparents out there. We need parents and children and we need everybody there. This is an opportunity that the Mayor and her Council put together that we need to have a very very strong turnout. De Weerd: I agree. And, unfortunately, people judge the severity of a problem based on attendance and if it's not well attended people will walk away wondering if there really is a problem and there really is a problem, so -- Rountree: Has this been highlighted and advertised in the schools? De Weerd: It has. It's on every door we could put it on and they should have come home with fliers yesterday and I know my junior high student did -- or my middle schooler did. Rountree: Well, I don't have a student anymore, so that's why I asked. De Weerd: It's has been in the media -- Bird: We have printed out invitations back there, Charlie, that -- Rountree: I got my invitation, but I just -- Bird: We need to fill that auditorium with parents and young people. They need to hear this message. De Weerd: Yes, they do. So, thank you. Is there any other business in front of Council tonight? Item 14: Tabled from January 17, 2006: Ordinance No. : AZ 05-017 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 137.96 acres from RUT to R-8 zone for Messina Meadows Subdivision by Tuscany Development, Inc. - on South Eagle Road between East Victory Road and East Amity Road: Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the applicants on Item No. 14 that was requested for continuance is asking that Council reconsider that decision. His engineer made that decision for him and he's asking that it be reconsidered. Bird: Do you want to do it tonight? Canning: The issue was the development agreement was missing a formal commitment on the part of the developer to construct a small portion of off-site roadway. Meridian City Council January 24, 2006 Page 53 of 55 They have committed through their construction plans to bringing sewer and water through that portion of roadway and they fully intended to build that portion of roadway off site, it's just not in the development agreement. He's indicated that the two week delay or three week delay is -- I think he said killing him, but it's -- so, it can't happen unless that gets done. He suggested that perhaps we make it approved contingent on him getting the development agreement -- or maybe the city attorney can help me out on this, but -- Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Bird. Bird: One of them is an ordinance. We can't pass an ordinance on a contingency, can we? But we -- I mean the ordinance -- I mean the other -- there is no reason to pass it if we can't pass the ordinance. And we can't pass that on contingency. Nary: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Nary. Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, it's been a standard practice of Meridian for quite awhile to not pass those annexation ordinances until the development agreements are completed. There is an issue here that, again, probably this is not going to be a problem, but we have seen many times that what seemed like not a problem became a problem later because of some other circumstance that we had no idea. This agreement -- this development agreement was sent to developers in September. So, it's not like this is something that the city has sat on for four months, the developer has sat on this for four months for other reasons and that's fine, but this is an issue that did come up regarding this and this is something that they have agreed to make sure to include. If you want to pass your ordinance you can and you can do the development agreement later. It is the only mechanism, really, in which to enforce these types of conditions. I will have the development agreement amended and prepared by next week. If you want to add that as part of your workshop, you can. Your workshop is no different than any other meeting. So, you could have a consent agenda, you can take items up and, then, you can have a workshop. So, you can do it if you want to do it, you don't have to. But that's your option. But I just would be hesitant setting that practice of passing your annexation ordinance prior to having completed development agreements, because it is your only tool, sometimes, to enforce that later and if something were to occur that would be -- we would be the ones kicking ourselves. De Weerd: Okay. Council? Rountree: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Rountree. Meridian City Council January 24, 2006 Page 54 of 55 Rountree: My preference -- I agree with what Bill said, because we oftentimes put ourselves in a corner. I see no reason why we couldn't take this up for a few minutes on a workshop and get it done, assuming we can get the development agreement modified. De Weerd: Okay. Rountree: So, do we need a new motion to change the date certain? Berg: Yes. De Weerd: Okay. So, that was -- Rountree: Do we have to have a motion to bring it off the table -- Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Councilmember Rountree, technically, what you should do is move to reconsider your prior action on 5-A and Item 14. If that is affirmative, then, you can, then -- to reconsider that, then, you can move to set it over to one week. Rountree: Madam Mayor, I move that we reconsider our previous action on this evening's agenda 5-A and 14. Borton: Second. De Weerd: Okay. Motion to reconsider 5-A and 14. All in favor say aye. Okay. All ayes. Motion carries. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Rountree: Madam Mayor, move that we -- did we table them before? Bird: Yeah, we did. Rountree: -- Table Items 5-A and Item 14 until our next regularly schedule meeting, which will be -- De Weerd: 31. Our special meeting. Rountree: -- January 31, our special meeting workshop at 6:00 o'clock. Bird: Second. De Weerd: Okay. Motion is to table Items 5-A and 14 to January 31,2006. All those in favor say aye. Okay. All ayes. Motion carries. Meridian City Council January 24, 2006 Page 55 of 55 MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. De Weerd: I will entertain a motion to adjourn. Rountree: So moved. Bird: Second. De Weerd: Okay. All those in favor? MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. MEETING ADJOURNED AT 9:44 P.M. (TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS) .2- / 7 / ¿Jb DATE APPROVED