HomeMy WebLinkAbout2005 11-15 Special
Meridian City Council SDecial WorkshoD Meetina
~ovember ~. 2005
The Meridian City Council Special Workshop Meeting was called to order at 5:00
P.M. on Tuesday, November 15, 2005 by Council President Shaun Wardle.
Members Present: Mayor Tammy de Weerd, Keith Bird, Shaun Wardle, Charlie
Rountree and Christine Donnell.
Staff Present: Brad Hawkins-Clark, Ted Baird and Will Berg.
Item 1.
Roll-call Attendance:
Roll call.
X Shaun Wardle
X Charlie Rountree
X
X Christine Donnell
X Keith Bird
Mayor Tammy de Weerd
Item 2.
Adoption of the Agenda:
Bird: Mr. President.
Wardle: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move that we adopt the agenda as published.
Donnell: Second.
Wardle: It's been moved and seconded to adopt the agenda. All in favor?
ALL AYES. MOTION CARRIED.
Item 3.
Workshop I Discussion of Comprehensive Plan Land Uses in
the North Meridian Area:
Wardle: Mr. Brad Hawkins-Clark, would you please lead us off?
Hawkins-Clark: You bet. To be honest with you, I am a little bit nervous about
overwhelming you with information tonight. There has been a lot that has
happened and I would like to maybe just get your feedback a little bit first. I could
give you the whole background in terms of where this is coming from. We could
start with the workshop that we have. We could start with the Planning and
Zoning Commission. I have also been told by our City Attorney that since this is
an active application that you will need to have a public hearing on that in terms
of your dialogue, I guess in particular and I guess Ted correct me if I am wrong,
but I am probably okay to do some talking and explaining and background in
Meridian City Council Special Workshop Meeting
November 15, 2005
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terms of where this application has been, but in terms of your - certainly this isn't
a decision making forum, but I guess I just want to clarify that before we get
going in terms of what is the parameters of this workshop.
Baird: Mr. President, Members of the Commission my comments were merely to
caution against considering the merits of any particular application or deliberating
towards any decision because you will have a separately noticed public hearing
on the applications, so it's going to be difficult to talk about the particulars without
talking about possible projects. So, I have advised staff that you kind of have to
go there, but I would advise you to just avoid the merits.
De Weerd: But don't if we don't have to.
Baird: Exactly. Well, with that word of caution, proceed.
Wardle: Council before we begin, my suggestion would be Brad to give us kind
of a brief overview for the record. This is a project which was initiated a number
of years ago and has been in a couple of iterations, so unless we have objections
for Council maybe you can take us through that and we can ask some specific
questions. Mr. Bird did you have --?
Bird: I think you covered it right there. We just need to be careful with what we
participate in, you know, the staff can say stuff, but what we participate in -
Wardle: Sure. Is that clear for you Brad?
Hawkins-Clark: As mud. Thank you. Okay, well sure and please just tell me to
go another direction or to backup or interject questions about - I will go ahead
and first review the summary. What is on the screen is what the public workshop
people said they would probably prefer north Meridian not look like. Just so you
know. There wasn't a formal vote, but that was the general jest.
Bird: At least we could get across town.
Hawkins-Clark: You could get around town.
Bird: When is ITD going to put that in?
Hawkins-Clark: We have representation here tonight from lTD.
Bird: That is why I was asking.
Rountree: Go ahead, Sue, let them know.
Hawkins-Clark: So, where we started on this whole thing was as Councilman
Wardle mentioned several years ago in the north Meridian area, but this actual
Meridian City Council Special Workshop Meeting
November 15, 2005
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process that we are in is as a comp plan amendment, which of course as you
know we can only - the Planning and Zoning Commission can only make
recommendations to you every six months. The last amendment here in the city
was in January and this was filed by our department in August and it does
include an area city of impacts boundary change. That north Meridian area plan,
which was a private plan, was the summer of '01. There was also a Washington
Group International Traffic Study that was a pretty big deal at the time. A Very
comprehensive look at ten square miles up in the north area. The other items
listed there are - you know what is going on up in the north Meridian area, but
basically this is kind of where have we been in terms of some of our projects -
the sewer trunk, the parks, the schools. North Chinden master sewer plan that
was done up there in just last year. A couple more recent activities in the north
area have been an update to that 2001 Washington Group, which our
department - you have approved the funding for that and should have received
copies a couple of months ago. Thornton, Oliver, Keller (TOK) also did a market
study for the city and just a couple of months ago they completed that and then
also in terms of where we have been, actually this is more ongoing is our
northwest area of impact sewer study being done by JUB. They do expect to
have a draft submitted to the Public Works Department next week. That has to
do with the four square miles that are west of McDermott. So, those are some of
the activities, the capital improvement projects, planning projects that have been
happening up in this area. I just had to stick this slide in there because it shows
from 2000 to 2004 sort of what happened up there and as you can see on that
top line, 25 percent of all building permits in the county were in this north area,
which I don't have an updated figure for you for 2005, but I believe it is probably
similar, so, the point being that when we look at the whole county this is a very -
while the whole county has experienced a lot of growth this is very high growth.
Here is a brief overview of the differences between the private plan and basically
the city initiated public plan. Wardle and Associates was hired and they did the
private, along with several other developers including Mr. Turnbull is here tonight
and was key in that. The geographic area for that one was 10 square miles, this
one is approximately 16. That plan did not look at anything to do with the area of
impact at all. This one does. Transportation funding was a part of that previous
plan and it really was not a part of the scope of this. So, what is happening now?
This doesn't come out very well. It looks better on our screen. I will just go on.
This map was basically trying to show the future areas, but I think I am going to
go to another map and in just a couple of minutes come back because that is not
going to do us any good. A few of the other things that are ongoing that we have
been trying to stay abreast of, the staff has been very active in and the Planning
and Zoning Commission looked at - those two studies on the top, the Blue Print
for Good Growth and the Communities in Motion as well as ITD's efforts with
Parametrics to look at the Chinden corridor. Those are two studies that are
ongoing right now. Actually, it's three really that basically the City of Meridian
has committed to looking carefully at and participating in and incorporating into
our decision-making. The other public construction projects there in the north
area - the other item that I have on the bottom there is the Eagle / Star
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November 15, 2005
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Committee of Nine process. That Committee has actually completed their work.
They did make final action a couple of months ago recommending to the Ada
County Board of Commissioners that they include all of Eagle's original
application in terms of their boundaries for their area of impact and the reason
that it affects this area is that a portion of what they recommended be approved
is also a portion that we have in this application to be included in our future area
of impact. There is a neighborhood meeting scheduled between Ada County and
Eagle and property owners that is happening, I believe, next week to kind of look
at that issue, get neighborhood input. The Board of County Commissioner's
public hearing has not been set - that is as of last week. We got that update, so
it is somewhat in limbo. We do know that that is ongoing, but in order to kind of
tell you where we are at that's - we can't say that there is any final action by the
Board of County Commissioners, just that the Committee of Nine has
recommended that the area north of Chinden at this point be in Eagle. So, that's
kind of some of the periphery stuff of what is affecting this plan. In terms of our
timeline, we did have a public open house to talk about this application and the
effort at Sawtooth Middle School in May. We had about 110 participants. Most
of those are large property owners in the area. We did our work from basically
June to August and then September, October Planning and Zoning Commission
their hearings were actually October 3rd and October 17th. Tonight I guess one of
the goals of this workshop is to set a hearing date. If you feel prepared and you
are ready to move ahead, set a hearing date for yourself. Then in January and
February we would anticipate submitting our amended Comprehensive Plan to
Ada County for their approval - renegotiate our area of city impact and have
those discussions with the Board of County Commissioners and then the last
item there is just a reminder that we must adopt and amend the agreement with
the City of Meridian before the impact boundary is official. I guess the caveat
there is that with the Unified Development Code, which you approved recently it
did take out the clause that says Meridian must not annex land unless it's in our
area of impact. That was taken out. Just so you know that in terms of being able
to annex land even if the area of city impact boundary is not officially approved is
an option under the Unified Development Code. These are really the main three
reasons for the application - to expand the area of impact boundary in those two
areas shown north of Chinden and west of McDermott; second is to designate
new land uses and policies in our new areas and then amend the existing land
uses in our current; and then last is to create a new circulation map and
associated transportation policies that are particular to this area. So, kind of a
three fold purpose for the application. I think I will just touch on a couple of
these. These are kind of the key issues that are addressed. This is a
combination of some of the assumptions that we had and I will touch on these
land use ones first and then there are a few transportation ones after this. This
isn't a zoning change, so no changes are made to existing zoning. As I
mentioned before the Communities in Motion and the Blue Print for Good Growth
efforts, this will give some detail to that, although, the Blue Print for Good Growth
is looking still for a February completion so we don't have anything final on that.
Overall density of housing - at least 3 to 3.5 dwelling units per acre and that is an
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November 15, 2005
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overall of course. One of the goals that is planned is to have that nice mix of
housing where we are going to have much higher density and some lower and
that next one is lower density of state housing north of Chinden, which is one of
the assumptions that we had going in and that was pretty much confirmed by
some of the public input at both the workshop and the housing - I mean and the
P&Z Commission. Higher density housing being closer to our service centers
and along our transit corridors, existing neighborhood centers on our existing
future land use map, there is three of our four centers in north Meridian that are
actually removed as a part of this plan. The acreage stays about the same in
terms of how much land we designate, but because of some prior approvals, they
were shifted around. The main point being that they were removed from the half
mile - those half mooned shaped over to the intersections. We did retain the half
mile at - in section 30 and 31, which is basically along Chinden and on the west
side of Locust Grove. Then a final land use issue that we had was that new land
use designated around our State Highway 16 interchanges, which I will address
in just a minute. Here is a few of they key issues addressed by the plan on
transportation - 20/26 designated as limited access, the plan - I believe the text
right now actually references 45 to 55. We did have some public comment about
maintaining that at 55; obviously this is being looked at in much more detail by
ITD and Parametrics as part of their study that is going on right now. But, in
terms of what this plan is looking at and is backed up by the Unified Development
Code unlimited access referring to half mile. Another key issue, assumption if
you will is the future State Highway 16, highway extension designated to
generally align with McDermott. That was actually something that I came to the
Council very early on to see if you were comfortable with that. We got a few
people that had some other opinions on that in terms of the designation, but the
vast majority felt that McDermott made sense when you look at the region and
when you look at Meridian's west boundary. It is assumed that we won't know
the exact Highway 16 alignment for at least two and half to three years, but that
also doesn't mean that Meridian shouldn't be planning for that corridor and
making our statement through this plan. Great separated interchange is
anticipated at that intersection with 20/26 or wherever that alignment ends up.
We are looking at multi-model centers, future bus routes. There is also a
collector road, auto-circulation map that we spend some time on preparing and is
part of this effort. It designates several new collectors that we did not have in our
previous plan. Finally it does update our multi-use pathway locations. The ones
that have already been approved as well as a few modifications in terms of
where we think they should go. Maybe before I go on to the Thornton, Oliver,
Keller study, I will switch over to look at the map and kind of just give us the
graphical orientation here. Okay, so this is the latest version of the future land
use map that we have been working with. 20/26 and Chinden running right
across the top here, the Phyllis Canal is essentially right along the rim at the
north area and that is basically the proposed boundary for the north area. Linder
Road is here on the right hand side of the screen and this is McDermott. So,
basically between Linder and McDermott and north of Phyllis Canal - Spur Wing
Golf Course, at least a portion of it - some of Spurwing does actually spill over
Meridian City Council Special Workshop Meeting
November 15, 2005
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onto the north side. This area, I believe we talked about with the Council a few
months ago was at one point talked about the proposal that would be in Meridian.
This plan does not recommend that it be included. So, new land uses as you can
see, have been designated. There is also these four square miles on the south
side of Chinden, proposed areas, so essentially this is about two and a half
square miles on the north side and here is where we are looking at six and a half
or six and three quarter square miles being added to Meridian's area city of
impact with this application. To go back to that Thornton, Oliver, Keller study I
just wanted to point out before I switch over there where just some of the key
commercial areas - because one of our goals with that was - our question was
to get one opinion - it's recognized as just one opinion in terms of what this north
Meridian area could absorb in terms of retail and office. Those are the two areas
they focused on and what you see here in the colors other than the yellows and
the greens are obviously our mixed use and our commercial areas - does reflect
the plans that have been approved to date. Most of, I guess I shouldn't say
most, I think all of what you see designated in red here is part of Paramount and
Lochsa Falls and Kelly Creek, along Meridian Road and then Bridgetower
Crossing. So, those four projects have the commercial land that is currently
annexed and zoned as commercial. There also is some commercial and office
located here next to our wastewater treatment plant and then a few smaller areas
scattered around, but these four to six square miles is where currently zoned
land is located. Some of their key conclusions were that they - they looked at
two different types of retail in this study - anchored, retail and unanchored in
their industry they differentiate there - anchored being where there is a 15,000
square foot single tenant or more. So, they are fairly obvious driving around the
valley, you know which ones they are and then the unanchored are going to be
more of your single multi tenant strip kind of - they estimated 910,000 square
feet of anchored; 490,000 square feet of unanchored for a total retail base of 125
to 140 acres to accommodate the retail. The current plan has approximately 320
acres designated for both mixed use and commercial. If you looked at just the
commercial land, it's actually right at where Thornton, Oliver, Keller what their
suggestion is. The 320 includes our other mixed use categories. Of course
those allow not just the retail, but the office and multi-family. On their office
segment they projected 55 to 70 acres for office - for office 555,000 to 650,000
square feet. The current plan has approximately 100 acres of office. So, the
Planning and Zoning Commission didn't adopt this study per se, but they
appreciated it. They did feel, at least a couple of the Commissioners that
Meridian may, given our geography, be able to increase what may be looked at
as an average across the industry because of our easy access from Nampa,
Eagle, Star, etc. So, they didn't say how much more to designate, but they were
comfortable with those.
Wardle: Brad, you said to interrupt if we had questions.
Hawkins-Clark: You bet.
Meridian City Council Special Workshop Meeting
November 15, 2005
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Wardle: One of the questions I have on the study and without getting too in-
depth into it - you said obviously this is kind of one first blush opinion from
Thornton, Oliver, Keller - did it take into consideration one of the things that we
have in our code, which is not necessarily as I have seen a national standard, the
ability for certain quasi industrial uses to facilitate within our office environment?
Was that looked at? Does that make sense?
Donnell: Quasi-industrial? Can you give me an example?
Wardle: For example development such as Silverstone and EI Dorado have
pieces which are purely and primarily professional office, but they also have
some large manufacturing and even call center activities, which are larger that
may be zoned in other communities as a national average in heavier industrial
area. Was that specific piece taken a look at from an absorption rate?
Hawkins-Clark: I am not going to probably be able to answer that for sure, but
my read of the study is that it did not take into consideration zoning of land - I
mean, they are looking at just, for example, on retail they don't - they exclude
banks and they exclude any building that is 2,000 square feet or less. But, they
do include pretty much everything else that has a retail use. Now, if it is almost
like a flex space, maybe there is another way to describe what you were saying -
or you have some areas where they are just a shell and cores put up and it's flex.
I don't know if they factor those into their analysis. So, are there any other
questions at this point or on other things? I was going to jump over the future
land use map again if that is where you want to go. Actually I was going to show
you - so the original application that went out to the public showed - I am just
going to talk for a minute here about the McDermott and the State Highway 16
area. It proposed a preservation corridor, which is shown here in this purple
cross hatched area. It is centered on McDermott and it assumes a McDermott
interchange at 1-84 and the original thinking of this corridor was that first and
foremost, we don't know exactly the alignment of the future highway. The
feedback that we received from ITD was that they as an agency cannot actually
designate ahead of time if they are going to use federal money to study these
corridors, where that alignment is going to be. So, some flexibility going into a
study is really pretty important. So, since we don't know exactly where that is
going to be, this corridor was created - you know one mile wide to provide
basically a heads up to the community that says somewhere in here is where the
City of Meridian would prefer that to go. Overwhelmingly, the property owners
within that area voiced a lot of concern about that. We had recommended some
policies that basically reviewed as a moratorium, frankly. That was the word that
came back to our office again and again is that the City of Meridian is using this
as a way to create a moratorium - obviously, from a technical, legal standpoint it
is not correct, but as they say perception is reality and that is what we had to deal
with there was general support to say McDermott is a good idea, but we just
don't like the idea of having our land fall within some kind of preservation
corridor. In fact, in terms of their ability to develop their land at least under the
Meridian City Council Special Workshop Meeting
November 15, 2005
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current policies that has no real effect because the direction that you have given
staff is that we will not go to the McDermott trunk and extend into this area until -
well, it's not funded and not willing to have the private development community
fund or construct that trunk line. The east boundary of this corridor essentially
falls on - if you look at the Public Works master sewer plan it is basically a half
mile west of Black Cat of where the Black Cat trunk can gravity to. I guess the
point being that the policy that says the sewer is not going to be extended over to
west of the half mile point into McDermott trunk, as long as that remains the
policy then urban scale development isn't going to happen anyway. It's just that
rather than having just that almost as a sewer being your growth management
tool, this was another form of education or instruction or an ability to identify to
land owners, developers, etc. that this is here. So, the bottom line is that the
Planning and Zoning Commission removed that designation from the map
entirely. There was some conversation, well what about designating 300 feet
either way of the centerline of McDermott, but they ended up not going that way
either. They were very supportive of having the City of Meridian be involved in
coordinating an effort between the property owners and ITD and Canyon County
and Nampa and basically looking at public, private partnership collaboration to
just move this effort along and particularly if we can get broad agreement
amongst property owners in this corridor. That often will certainly make ITD's job
a lot easier when they go to identify the right of way and purchase it. If there is
an agreement between the property owners and the city, but that is basically as
far as they went, they being the Planning and Zoning Commission and let's say
yes on the general alignment and let's encourage this private, public
collaboration, but at this point it goes no further than that. There are a couple of
policies that say we don't think that urban Meridian should annex land over into
this area of the McDermott trunk. So, in a sense we will have that preserved. It's
just that Ada County, if they adopt this plan; obviously there is entitlements that
go with being able to develop under Ada County code in this area. So, that was
another goal if you will of the staff was once this goes to Ada County for adoption
and we talk with them about our desires for planning out in this area. Let's use
this as a talking piece to say this is what Meridian would like to see. Do you want
to add anything else, Anna, on that?
Canning: Just one other quick mention on that. I think that the way that Blue
Print for Good Growth is headed is that it'li have some sort of capital
improvement plan that shows where facilities will be available and I think that that
will end up being a very good tool to discuss the timing and sequencing of
growth, which is exactly what we were trying to do with the corridor preservation.
So, I think there would be some other tools coming up that may serve that better
than this could have. Anyway, so I think we still have options, certainly.
(Inaudible on tape)
Hawkins-Clark: So, here is the map that shows that removed. Now, I would
point out that there is a new category called mixed use interchange, which is right
Meridian City Council Special Workshop Meeting
November 15. 2005
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around where we have shown to be future interchange locations, one on Ustick
and then one on 20/26 and some of this mixed use interchange area around
those. Now, at each of those there are still, of course, one corner that Meridian
doesn't have any jurisdiction on, on the north side of Star's area of impact and on
the south at Ustick it's City of Nampa's area of impact, but on the corners that
Meridian is planning for we put this designation and that designation has - there
is policies in the application that are obviously there for you to go into more detail
on, but generally we have tried to kind of target some themes, if you will, at these
and since the northerly one is highly likely to have more volume, we have had
more of a retail and vehicular uses, that kind of focus up around the one on the
north. The one at Ustick, that interchange, we have - see more as office,
education, some high density residential, but in terms of a regional destination for
shopping, moving, those kinds of uses up to the State Highway and using this
interchange down here for almost more local uses, if you will. I don't know how
much more to say about those, I mean, they are on our map. They are
designated. That is where Meridian would like to see them and we want to plan
for those uses and preserve those. You all should have received a letter from
property owners up here in this area on the south east corner of the intersection.
That was a little much, wasn't it? This is called Peregrine Heights Subdivision on
the south side of Chinden. This is a quarter mile east of McDermott. It was
constructed in 1996, county subdivision, one acre lots - very nice upscale
neighborhood. There is 15 houses in there. They spent quite a bit of time with
staff and talking about the area and they are clearly concerned with the
interchange and with the kinds of uses that are going to be there and affect
those. The agreement that they came to - I should say, tentative, sort of
agreement with the property owner to the east and the property owner to the
west, a larger underdeveloped parcels was that a somewhat of a buffer would be
provided adjacent to them. So, this map is actually showing what that agreement
is. You can see this little strip of low density along their east boundary and then
medium density around the south and around the west. Miss Waterfield who has
ownership of this, she wrote a letter of concern about how this area was
represented at the Planning and Zoning Commission. I responded and I will let
you read that correspondence for more detail, but I do anticipate that this will be
an area of concern in the future. Right now we have shown it with that mixed use
interchange and then medium density and just retained -- the Planning and
Zoning Commission - one of the approaches that they took was that if you look
at an interchange and you could almost look at it in four quadrants in terms of
when you think about the off ramps and on ramps - since there will be no
opportunity to cross McDermott or cross Chinden in these areas, you could
almost see this south east area as being more residential. There are certainly
examples where residential can survive. The market is a powerful force and yes
their houses are worth $500,000 today or more, but - they want to stay there and
they want to retain that and they want residential around them. That is what the
Planning and Zoning Commission thought; let's go with residential here and
maybe look at more of our intensive uses up in the northeast and the southwest
and kind of scale back the residential on this southeast quadrant. So, again we
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November 15, 2005
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are talking years probably out and this land use map needs to be a living
document and reflect other plans and other studies in the highway alignment,
ultimately. So, I wanted to make you aware of that area. I am just going to slide
up to the north and to the east a little bit and talk about another area that had
gotten a lot of attention. So, again, we are talking Black Cat Road, which today
terminates just as you cross over the rim there. There is a request from the
Aldape family for the properties -sorry, this map actually cuts it off, but they own
approximately 320 or 350 acres something like that up here on the north side of
the rim. They would like to be in Meridian's area of city impact. They were not
granted that request by the Planning and Zoning Commission, but just so you
know they are very active and watching. They would very much like to be in
Meridian. Their family history - they have a lot of reasons, but that is not in. You
may get that request to incorporate it, but it would obviously involve a big delay in
this process if you chose to look at actually moving the area of city impact
boundary north and not just looking at their property, but all of this area between
the river, which is about where my cursor is and then the Phyllis Canal. So, there
is about 1,400 acres between McDermott and Linder and between the Boise
River and the Phyllis Canal that all is proposed to be in Eagle's area of city
impact. It is not yet, but they are interested in coming in. That relates to property
that is close to - they have been in conversations with the city about annexation
on the south side here. One other pretty sizable change to the map is on the
southeast corner of Linder and Chinden, which again this is Paramount that you
see here - some of their phases that are built. This area that is right at the
corner is designated as mixed-use community. That is a change from the
residential that is on our map today. So, we actually have mixed-use community
at all three corners of that intersection at again Chinden and Linder with the
assumption that that's with the river crossing - that is projected to be very high
volumes for traffic.
(Tape turned over)
Hawkins-Clark: Let me go to this auto circulation map and just touch on some of
the highlights there.
De Weerd: Mr. President.
Wardle: Madame Mayor.
De Weerd: Brad, I guess when we bring this to the public testimony, if you can
extend that area north of the bench clear to the river so that you can show some
of these areas you are talking about and in the public process - I think that would
be helpful.
Hawkins-Clark: Actually, that is a great idea.
Meridian City Council Special Workshop Meeting
November 15, 2005
Page 11 of 19
De Weerd: And I guess, there is nothing specific here, but as - I am sorry, Mr.
President.
Wardle: Madame Mayor.
De Weerd: I am used to running this instead of asking. When we talked about
this with the Commissioners, we had not talked about that particular piece and so
we had already - we were proceeding forward with the agreement with Eagle.
Since that is kind of been negated with the Committee of Nine or is still kind of up
in the air, I think it is important that we see this additional area that is being
requested and at least have that for consideration.
(Inaudible discussion)
De Weerd: Mr. President.
Wardle: Madame Mayor.
De Weerd: Maybe this is a good time to take a quick break and go grab your
plates.
Wardle: I was waiting for the go ahead from the Clerk that dinner was ready, but
we can recess for a couple of minutes and go see if we can find something to
eat.
(Recess)
Wardle: I would like to resume our discussion on the north Meridian area plan.
Brad?
Hawkins-Clark: Thank you. So, what we have on the screen, which you should
have a better copy in front of you, a hard copy is of north Meridian auto
circulation map. The map that is in our comp plan today does show collectors, it
just basically shows them at the half mile. In looking at the land uses and having
learned a few lessons, I guess and having talked with Ada County Highway
District and others, we added a new category called for - although we have
received from some people that this isn't the best word - but back-age road is
what is on there. Tricia doesn't like that word. It's shown as green on the plan,
which this map on the screen isn't showing very well, but these are basically
shown along the south side of Chinden and then there is a couple of other small
- I think only one other area and that is down near the future interchange. So,
again here is McDermott and Chinden. So, the solid blue and dashed blue and
there is solid green and dashed green and the solid blue lines are the collectors.
The dashed blue lines are preferred and same with the back-age where the
dashed are the preferred. In terms of how we would envision implementing this,
obviously several of these that are shown on here are constructed today. The
Meridian City Council Special Workshop Meeting
November 15, 2005
Page 12 of 19
newer ones are at the intersection of Ten Mile and McMillan and then basically
everything west of Ten Mile. Most of that is new with the exception of Bainbridge
Subdivision, which does have approval for this collector that is shown here - oh,
and Volterra as well. Okay. So, actually this sort of circuit around this
intersection tries to get at one of the main objectives of these and that is to
provide people access, most vehicular, bicycles, pedestrians and everyone to the
corners from within the mile. If they are wanting to access services there to be
able to turn in on a public street before they get to the intersection. That same
concept is shown over here in the new four square mile area at the intersection
of Star Road and McMillan. Given the fact that Star Road crosses the river and
is central to these four square miles, we designated a neighborhood center right
there. So, these are intended to really work with non-residential uses. Obviously
there is going to be some residential uses where we need to have a collector
type of roadway, but this map really is geared towards non-residential and that is
why you do not see the back-age Road going all the way across the south side of
Chinden. Now, we have had some discussions with ITD actually and with Sue
and with Tricia and with others and with our own staff and actually with Eagle
about, you know, the concept of well do you want to put that back-age road,
almost serve like a frontage road just all the way across? So, if you are traveling
down 20/26 rather than seeing land uses, whether residential or commercial, you
would actually see a street. The goal of these is to put your back-age roads
where you have non-residential so that you can get access to those from the
local system and these are intended to be public, all public streets by the way.
As compared to the north side of Chinden you will see that we actually don't have
any designated and that is because the only places that are currently on the land
use map as being non-residential are where these two collector stubs extend
north of Chinden. So, you would have access to the neighborhood center off of
that collector, presumably is how that would function and then of course you
would still have your local street system once you get in there, but as far as a
collector designation, you know, which implies certain standards for the Highway
District and no front-on housing, etc., those are the only two locations. Our
feeling is that the residential uses should be granted, more flexibility to design
their local roads and still providing connectivity, but not having to construct that
exactly parallel, if you will to the State Highway. Now the dashed lines are
shown to kind of basically create a circulation vision for these areas that have not
had much development at all yet. While we think that that makes some logical
sense to - for example, over here at Volterra, this represents somewhat of their
internal road system, but we want to be able to get them over to the half mile
point fairly easily. Same thing over here at Star and McMillan. So, that is the
reason for the preferred. If it is a solid line, we at the time of pre-application
meeting, for example somebody comes to our office and they own land and there
is one of these solid blue lines that has a collector that is either cutting through
their property or adjacent to it, staff's position is going to be that they need to
construct that as a collector with no driveways onto it, no front-on housing. If it is
on their property line, there is an option if you will in there that they could get
something in writing, basically a commitment from the adjacent property owner
Meridian City Council Special Workshop Meeting
November 15, 2005
Page 13 of 19
that they would be willing to dedicate that right of way and construct the rest of
the collector on the adjacent property. But, we really want to hold firm to those
solid lines and be able to move traffic. As you can see they are either at the
corridor or at the half mile between the mile sections and the two pretty critical
ones are these adjacent to the future State Highway 16. These are solid blue
and while there may be a frontage road as a part of the future Highway 16, we
feel that this half mile collector is going to be pretty important to be able to get
people effectively north and south where they can't access the State Highway.
Presuming again that that is limited access. So, getting them to be able to move
easily and this was strongly supported by the Planning and Zoning Commission.
It is essentially the concept that the Highway District is currently working on over
off of Eagle Road, near the Ustick, Eagle Road intersection where they are
looking at securing some right of way to extend that new road that was
constructed behind Lowe's. So, there is a single there and it currently goes up
behind Lowe's and potentially that would come down and provide that circulation
so that Eagle Road is - the traffic is eased up a bit. So, that is the principle
there. The only real change that was talked about has to do with on the north
side of Chinden, there is a private lane called Basco Lane that today extends
from Chinden up to the Phyllis Canal and then actually over to the north of that,
we originally showed a collector that went all the way up to the Canal and we
actually dropped that back after having reviewed that with some property owners
and we are still confident that the circulation up here will work well, but in terms
of our plan, actually requiring a collector we felt that this was adequate. Is there
any questions on this collector map?
Donnell: Mr. President.
Wardle: Ms. Donnell.
Donnell: Brad, what about you show a preferred back-age road right through the
subdivision that in your current discussions you talked about providing buffer
around that Peregrine Subdivision?
Hawkins-Clark: Yeah, generally speaking without getting into a specific property,
I guess that is a good point. Today that would - well, let me go back to the future
land use map because again these are completely tied together -
Donnell: It just didn't seem congruent to me.
(Inaudible discussion)
Hawkins-Clark: One of our earlier versions of this map actually called out this
mixed use interchange to be - to extend all the way to the half mile point
between McDermott and Black Cat and that was the reason because there was
mixed use shown adjacent to Chinden that basically mirrored the north side. So,
Meridian City Council Special Workshop Meeting
November 15, 2005
Page 14 of 19
we would anticipate pulling that back. (Inaudible-------) which is a very good point
to raise at the public hearing.
Donnell: Exactly. Because those people - willi still be on the Council?
(Inaudible discussion)
Hawkins-Clark: There was some interest expressed both to staff at the front
desk as well as over the phone in this mixed use wastewater treatment plan area
and I think most of the Council has given us pretty clear direction - as well as the
Commission - the Commission are holding their feet to the fire if you will on
preserving this about 440 acres around our wastewater treatment plant. The
comments that we got involved the west side of our plant and given that the
dominant wind direction is from the north and west down to the south and east
and the fact that our plant is so well managed, most people up there don't really
have any significant issues. They feel like this is too large of an area. The Public
Works Department did do a noise and odor study. Carolla Engineers performed
that and that shows contour lines in terms of at what point does it taper off and it
does - it is certainly less impact-full on the west side of the plan. I'd just point out
that generally there is some continued concern of property owners up in this area
that this wastewater treatment plant that does not allow any new residential is too
stiff.
De Weerd: Mr. President.
Wardle: Madame Mayor.
De Weerd: I would just say that if in the public hearing you want to change that, I
will be handing out your phone numbers. I just wanted to - in the industrial land
study that we have funded for this year, I know that I have had a number of calls
to my office and certainly the increase we are getting are for industrial flex space
type of development and this has been referenced as a good site for some of the
flex space and in the design, light industrial type of use. That study should also
help in determining if we have sufficient land designated for that. That should
help answer that question.
Hawkins-Clark: You might also add on that that staff's thinking is that if State
Highway 16 does follow McDermott and we see an interchange in the future at
Ustick, it's just a little over one mile from an interchange in terms of being able to
access that area. Clearly, today if you are looking at it from a freight movement
standpoint, this is somewhat of an odd location for industrial and if you talk to the
industrial location folks they would prefer not to have to travel down off of the
State Highway 2 miles to get to this. But, one challenge with that is the fact that
we have a subdivision and an elementary school site already approved at the
intersection of Ustick and Black Cat, but I think there are some other ways that
you could look at future movement in there for freight or other maybe less
Meridian City Council Special Workshop Meeting
November 15, 2005
Page 15 of 19
transportation dependent uses. There was a change made on the property just
east of Drawbridge Subdivision. This is Drawbridge here, a fairly large lot for
Meridian. I think there is something around 18,000 to 20,000 square feet. This
was also shown as mixed use wastewater treatment plant, but given that the two
are adjacent and there was interest expressed from the property owner - we did
put a low density residential designation on that - on both of those.
(Inaudible discussion)
Hawkins-Clark: I might out on the area that is across from Star - staff, we did
have discussions with Star staff and they told us verbally, we don't have anything
in writing from them that they have no opposition, but verbally they told us they
have no opposition to this area. This is Star fire district, these four square miles
today. My understanding from Kenny Bowers is that typically the way the fire
districts work with each other is if once a jurisdiction annexes it, then that other
fire district recognizes that that is at that point the jurisdiction of in this case it
would be Meridian if this land was annexed here. So, I would just point out that
there is that jurisdiction overlap today. We did confirm with Star Fire as well as
our own that a substation fairly centrally located up in here is preferred. Wendell
Bigham with the school district also said that given the lower density uses over
here that he anticipates just one elementary school site would actually be
sufficient since there is one on the north side of Chinden. He does think that
that's important to have a future school site up there to serve those two and one
half square miles. We have also basically mirrored Star's - Comprehensive Plan
has commercial designated at this intersection of Star Road and Chinden on both
sides of Star. So, we designated mixed use regional with the neighborhood
center category on that that would kind of transition away from this mixed use
interchange and then into that continued mixed use area. I think - I am just
trying to touch on sort of the highlights from the map and the circulation plan,
some of the discussions on State Highway 16 - you should have, next week, the
formal recommendation and the detailed application that goes into a lot more
detail on the policies and whatnot in your packets. Unless you have any other
questions, I think that's alii actually have.
Wardle: Thank you, Brad.
presentation, Brad.
Council, any questions, comments?
Excellent
Rountree: No, I am fine. Good presentation.
Wardle: Ted, if I may ask is this the point in this meeting where we open up for
additional information from anyone else?
Baird: Mr. President, members of the Commission, you can certainly - you have
some resources out in the audience that if you have specific questions of them of
the Highway District, ITD I would probably preserve any questions of anybody
who might have an application that refers back to the hearing, but if there is
Meridian City Council Special Workshop Meeting
November 15, 2005
Page 16 of 19
additional information that you could gather now that would help you prepare for
the hearing or help staff prepare then certainly it is appropriate to do that at this
time.
Rountree: If they have got any comments that would be great to hear. Sue or
Tricia, do you have any specific comments or general comments about the
transportation aspects?
Wardle: Tricia do you want to come up?
Nelson: For the record, Patricia Nelson with Community Planning Association.
One comment on the map that might be useful is to put - you might want to look
at the affect of overlaying, kind of a typical interchange on those locations to see
- I think that the one at Ustick, if you look at that southeast corner, I am not really
sure how much of that designation may remain there. So, I would just
recommend staff may want to look at that to see what the affect might be. It was
something, I think, I had even suggested to Star on Highway 16 because they do
have a pretty large footprint and would, I think, help with the analysis of the plan
and might make it then clear to those property owners the affect of the
interchange at those locations. So, that is all.
Wardle: Thank you.
Canning: President Wardle, members of the Council, we might ask Sue Sullivan
if it would be possible to get that kind of interchange information because I
thought we could copy one similar to what's off 1-84. I just didn't know if that
would be what would be appropriate in this location or if there is some other
model that would be better to use.
Rountree: Mr. President, I think that Sue can probably provide the traditional
diamond interchange, but you might want to look at a (inaudible) as well, which
takes up less land and when you are talking - they are more expensive, but less
land so they kind of balance out in cost.
Canning: Say your name, please.
Sullivan: Sue Sullivan, lTD. We actually have done a very conceptual level
design at 16 and 44 with both a diamond and a diamond with a loop to facilitate
the high movements and a single point urban interchange, so we could just drop
those on there, which is what we were going to do in our corridor study too, just
at this early stage. I guess I wanted to say I do see - I think we need to figure
out a way and I just recently emailed some of those parties who are going to be
moving forward on the Garvey program and Highway 16 and you know we have
another year before we have money to start working on that project, but I think
maybe it would be good to get together to try and think of some ways we can
start talking about it in advance of the EIS that will start probably in a year and at
Meridian City Council Special Workshop Meeting
November 15, 2005
Page 17 of 19
least let people know -- I think there is a lot of confusion out there on what the
schedule is and what we know, what we don't know and when are we going to
know it and things like that. I think that would be good that we can start to work
on that and work together on it.
Wardle: Thank you, Sue. Tricia, if you would like to --?
Nelson: Tricia Nelson with Community Planning Association. The corridor
studies, the (inaudible) that we are trying to reinforce (inaudible) reinforce with
me, it's more of a parallel collector system. So, it's really clear when those
roadways would go in, what standard we are really talking about. So, it might
just be useful either in the text or maybe in the map if back-age should be clear
on that, but also be clear on the function; a functional classification of those
particular roads.
Wardle: Thank you and I think that's an excellent recommendation. It may be a
little more technical, but I like it personally a little better than back-age roads -
parallel collector, okay.
Hawkins-Clark: If I could add just one more thing. A little bit different (inaudible),
but we did have some input from folks that live just outside of this north Meridian
area. They live south of Ustick. Clearly there is going to be impact on folks on
both sides, but the attorney's opinion was that this was really noticed as a north
Meridian and we did include a map that drew the line at Ustick and so while there
was some understanding from the Planning and Zoning Commission about these
comments, they did not want to make any recommendation, so just a heads up. I
don't expect that we will (inaudible), but that did occur during the Planning and
Zoning process.
De Weerd: Mr. President.
Wardle: Madame Mayor.
De Weerd: What was - oh, can I ask what the issue was?
Hawkins-Clark: Sure. At the south side of Under and Ustick, there is a lot of
interest in that whole area for folks to have non-residential uses. As you know all
four corners are unincorporated today and so there is a lot of interest from folks
at the intersection of Under and Ustick to have something other than non-
residential, but since it was outside the boundaries, they did not want to address
it.
Wardle: But - I am sorry, Brad, did you say Under and Ustick?
Bird: Yeah, right by the ditch.
Meridian City Council Special Workshop Meeting
November 15, 2005
Page 18 of 19
Canning: President Wardle, members of the Council and Mayor, this is the
property owner that testified. There are other options. It's currently shown
residential, but the amendment you approved regarding the ability of some small
properties to request office, they would be eligible for - they just wouldn't be
eligible for a retail business there, but they could get an office one. It's a very
constrained site.
Bird: Mr. President.
Wardle: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Yeah, that is the only corner, the four though, that is pretty constraint. You
know, it is pretty small and it's a little "v" shaped one or triangle shaped.
Canning: Brad can correct me if I am wrong, but we didn't - I don't believe we
heard from the other property owners on the north side. No, we did not.
Wardle: All right, thank you very much, Brad and Anna and comments from
everyone. Do we need to set a hearing date at this point, Mr. Baird or can we do
that at our regular meeting? Or can we instruct Council President and staff to
bring it forward as soon as it can get on the agenda?
Baird: Mr. President, all of those are acceptable.
Wardle: Okay.
Rountree: Go ahead Mr. President, work out the details.
Bird: Mr. President.
Wardle: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Before you adjourn I would like to say something to Brad seeing how he is
leaving us. I think I am the only one that was a sitting Councilman - I thought
maybe Charlie had, but he didn't think so when Brad was hired. We knew we
had got a gem when we got him hired. He has the done the city a great job. You
have been first class for us, Brad and I wish you well in your new job and our loss
is Gem County's gain. Gem County don't know what they have got. Thank you
very much.
Rountree: Same here, Brad. I wish you well.
De Weerd: Mr. President.
Wardle: Madame Mayor.
Meridian City Council Special Workshop Meeting
November 15, 2005
Page 19 of 19
De Weerd: And certainly I have worked with Brad as a Planning and Zoning
Commissioner, a City Councilman and a Mayor certainly he has added a great
legacy to our city and our staff and you will be missed, but we know we will
continue to work with you on Highway 16 extension because I know that that is
very critical to the county and the community that you will be working for and
representing. So, I look forward to that continued relationship and expect to see
you often.
Hawkins-Clark: Thank you.
Wardle: Thank you very much, Brad.
De Weerd: And he is not done until December 3rd.
Bird: Mr. President I move that we adjourn.
Rountree: It's been moved and seconded to adjourn our special meeting. All in
favor?
ALL AYES. MOTION CARRIED.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 6:00 P.M.
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
APPROVED:
I 1171 tJ¿
DATE APPROVED