HomeMy WebLinkAbout2021-04-06 Work Session Minutes Item#1.
Meridian City Council Work Session April 6, 2021.
A Meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 4:30 p.m., Tuesday, April
6, 2021, by Mayor Robert Simison.
Members Present: Robert Simison, Joe Borton, Luke Cavener, Treg Bernt, Jessica
Perreault, Brad Hoaglun and Liz Strader.
Also present: Chris Johnson, Bill Nary, Mike Barton, Audrey Belnap, Kris Blume, Stacy
Redman, Mark Ford, Joe Bongiorno and Dean Willis.
ROLL-CALL ATTENDANCE
Liz Strader _X_ Joe Borton
_X_ Brad Hoaglun (5:10 p.m.) _X_Treg Bernt
X Jessica Perreault _X Luke Cavener (4:39 p.m.)
_X_ Mayor Robert E. Simison
Simison: Council, we will call this meeting to order. For the record it is Tuesday, April 6,
2021, at 4:30 p.m. We will begin this afternoon's work session with roll call agenda.
ADOPTION OF AGENDA
Simison: That was a roll call attendance. We will now move on to the adoption of the
agenda.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: There is a change to the -- change to the agenda. We are going to take off Item
11, which is a final plat for Teakwood Subdivision. It's going to be moved to a future work
session. So, with that I move that we adopt the agenda as amended.
Simison: Mr. Nary, do we -- do we amend that once we get to Consent or now?
Nary: You can do it now.
Simison: Okay. Perfect. Do I have a second?
Borton: Second.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to adopt the agenda. Is there any discussion on
the motion? If not, all in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay. The ayes have it.
The motion is agreed to and the agenda is adopted.
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MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. TWO ABSENT.
CONSENT AGENDA [Action Item]
1. Approve Minutes of the March 16, 2021 City Council Work Session
2. Approve Minutes of the March 23, 2021 City Council Regular Meeting
3. Bainbridge Subdivision No. 12 Sanitary Sewer and Water Main
Easement No. 1
4. The Oaks North No. 8 Sanitary Sewer and Water Main Easement No. 1
5. The Oaks North No. 8 Sanitary Sewer and Water Main Easement No. 2
6. The Oaks North No. 8 Sanitary Sewer and Water Main Easement No. 3
7. The Oaks North No. 8 Sanitary Sewer and Water Main Easement No. 4
8. Final Plat for Daphne Square Subdivision (FP-2021-0007) by Matt
Schultz of Schultz Development, Located at 4700 W. McMillan Rd.
9. Final Plat for Quartet Southeast (FP-2021-0012) by Brighton
Development, Located at 4020 N. Black Cat Rd.
10. Final Plat for Southridge No. 5 (FP-2021-0011) by The Land Group,
Generally Located South of W. Overland Rd. and West of S. Linder Rd.
12. Final Order for Ascent Subdivision (FP-2020-0018) by Schultz
Development, LLC, Generally Located on the North Side of W. Franklin
Rd., East of N. Black Rd.
13. Final Order for Oaks North Subdivision No. 9 (FP-2021-0010) by Toll
Southwest, LLC, Generally Located at 6180 W. McMillan Rd.
14. Final Order for Pine 43 No. 3 (FP-2020-0015) by J-U-B Engineers, Inc.,
Located East of N. Locust Grove Rd. and South of E. Fairview Ave. on
the North Side of the Jackson Drain
15. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for Cornerstone Dental (H-2021-
0009) by 12.15 Design, Located at 3250 N. Leslie Way
16. Revised Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for Aviator Subdivision
(H-2020-0111) by The Land Group, Inc., Located Near the Northeast
Corner of N. Black Cat Rd. and W. Franklin Rd.
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17. Development Agreement Between the City of Meridian and Challenger
Development, Inc. and Open Door Rentals, LLC (Owners) and
Challenger Development, Inc. (Developer) for Cache Creek
Subdivision (H-2020-0105), Located at 1560 W. Victory Rd. and 2955 S.
Locust Grove Rd.
18. Ada Metro Special Weapons and Tactics Team and Crisis Negotiation
Team Mutual Assistance Compact to Update Signatures of Authority
19. Amendments to Subrecipient Agreements for Community
Development Block Grant (CDBG) Program
20. Streetlight and Electrical Maintenance Agreement Between the City of
Meridian and Rockharbor Church for 6437 N. Tree Haven Way
21. City of Meridian Financial Report - February 2021
22. Resolution No. 21-2262: A Resolution Approving Adoption of a
Substantial Amendment to the Community Development Block Grant
Annual Action Plan for Program Year 2019; Authorizing the Mayor and
City Clerk to Execute and Attest the Same on Behalf of the City of
Meridian; Authorizing the Community Development Program
Coordinator to Submit the Same to the United States Department of
Housing and Urban Development; and Providing an Effective Date
23. Resolution No. 21-2265: A Resolution Authorizing the Thirteenth
Continuance of a Local Disaster Emergency Declaration and its Terms
for an Additional Thirty (30) Days; Authorizing the Continued
Immediate Expenditure of Public Money to Safeguard Life, Health and
Property; and Providing an Effective Date
Simison: Next item up is our Consent Agenda.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor, I move that we approve the Consent Agenda -- I guess would that be
as amended or as pub -- as amended. Okay. Thank you.
Borton: Second.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to approve the Consent Agenda as amended. Is
there any discussion on the motion? If not, all in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed
nay. The ayes have it. The motion is agreed to and the Consent Agenda is adopted as
amended.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. TWO ABSENT.
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ITEMS MOVED FROM THE CONSENT AGENDA [Action Item]
Simison: Next item on the agenda is -- there were no items moved from the Consent
Agenda.
DEPARTMENT / COMMISSION REPORTS [Action Item]
24. Parks and Recreation Department: Fiscal Year 2021 Net-Zero Budget
Amendment in the Amount of $1080.00 for the Idaho Commission of
the Arts Grant Awarded to the Meridian Arts Commission
Simison: So, we move on to Department/Commission Reports. First up is the Parks and
Recreations Department and I will turn this over to Audrey for the budget amendment. Hi,
Audrey. You are muted.
Belnap: Hello. Okay. Good. It's working now. Good afternoon, Mr. Mayor and City
Council. This budget amendment is for the funds received through a grant given to us by
the Idaho Commission on the Arts. It's 1,080 dollars. We plan to use this grant for
payments to the artists for the traffic box series this summer.
Simison: Thank you, Audrey. Council, do you have any questions?
Bernt: No questions.
Simison: If not, do I have a motion?
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: I move that we approve the net zero budget amendment in the amount of 1080
dollars for the Idaho Commission of the Arts grant award.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor, I second that.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 24. Is there any discussion on
the motion? If not, Clerk will call the roll
Roll call: Bernt, yea; Borton, yea; Cavener, absent; Hoaglun, absent; Strader, yea;
Perreault, yea.
Simison: All ayes. Motion carries and the amendment is adopted.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. TWO ABSENT.
Simison: Thank you, Audrey. Have a good evening.
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Belnap: You, too. Thank you.
25. Parks & Recreation Department: Spending Authority for Lakeview Golf
Course Golf Carts and Certain Equipment
Simison: Next item up is our Park and Recreation Department regarding spending
authority for Lakeview Golf Course and we will turn this over to Mr. Barton.
Barton: Good afternoon, Mr. Mayor and Council Members. I'm here to request spending
authority in the amount of 366,158 dollars to purchase a new fleet of golf carts and some
maintenance equipment for Lakeview Golf Course. As you are aware, last -- last October
we -- a budget amendment of 700,000 was approved by Council to fund the operating
and payroll accounts of the golf course. The 700,000 was deducted from the 2.8 million
that's been in the CIP, the CFP, for capital improvements for the course. This amount was
decided for the budget amendment, not because we thought that there would -- we would
run that much of a deficit on the golf course, but primarily because we didn't know what
we were going to get into and we didn't know the condition of some of the operating
capital, some of the -- what some of the start-up costs might be. So, now that we have
been out there for about five months one of the things that has risen to the top is the fleet
of existing golf carts. Half of them are from 1994. The other half are from 2012. They
have -- there is many many problems. We have been tracking some of the lost revenue
through this last round, turning golfers away when they come up to play a round. There
is lost revenue in rounds and also lost revenue in cart fee rentals and now that the weather
is getting nicer we have been renting some carts on the weekends for 350 dollars a day
for those carts. So, we would like to request that spending authority and I will stand for
any questions.
Simison: Thank you, Mike. And, Council, the other thing I would like to also point out is
that -- and, Mike, if you want to touch base -- touch on the -- the consultant in terms of
where this stood at the top of the needs assessment out there.
Barton: Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Members of Council. So, yeah, we did -- the
National Golf Foundation did an -- did an initial survey when we first took over and they
-- and they gave everything operational the --the number one deficit from that survey was
the condition of the fleet a golf carts. In fact, the -- Ed Getherall with the National Golf
Foundation said he's never seen a number that low and just for some additional context,
in the month of March we started tracking rounds lost and -- and some of the revenue. In
the month of March we lost 68 rounds where customers came up and we just didn't have
carts for them. You know, that equates to about 5,500 bucks in green fee revenue and
another 1 ,300 dollars in cart revenue. The other thing we had is we had five that had to
be rescued from the course. They would get halfway around and die or break down or
the wheel fell off. There is a variety of different problems. So -- yeah. So, they are old
and in bad shape.
Simison: Thank you, Mike. So, we at least have identified this. We knew it was a need,
but we wanted to put it in context with the other needs, as well as some of the money
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that's put aside in the CFP for consideration as we move forward. So, with that, Council,
do you have any questions for Mr. Barton?
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: As a golfer, not a good golfer by the way, but as a golfer there are two things that
I believe that are pretty important when you are talking about golf courses. Number one
are the carts. There is nothing worse than getting stranded or having a crappy cart that
doesn't get you around the golf course and there is too many other golf courses available
that do a good job that make it so that people go other places and so I think that it's a
wise investment. But number two are greens. You know, you don't like to put on greens
that are -- that make it difficult and some of the equipment I see that you have also
purchased or will be purchasing will address that need as well. So, I think -- I think -- I
think these items are well needed. So, I appreciate you -- I appreciate the amount of time
that was taken to really study this, you know, through the -- the Golf Association as well.
It really brought to light a bunch of things that were missing and what we need going
forward. So, thanks, Mike.
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Mike, along those lines Councilman Bernt hit the nail on the head with the value
of this assessment. If you could put a pin in the idea of when it comes time to reestablish
or review what the trail fee is, that perhaps some portion of the trail fee is segregated and
utilized for cart paths and recapturing some of the depreciation and capital expenditures
of these carts, trying to connect those two, that might be part of the long term plan, so
those folks that rent the carts their investment goes back into the trails that they utilize,
so --
Barton: Thank you. We will -- like you said, we will put a pin in it. Yeah.
Borton: You got a lot going on.
Barton: You bet.
Borton: So, good job.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: As most of you know I'm the liaison to the Parks and Recreation Department
and had an opportunity to take a tour with Mr. Barton and our director Mr. Siddoway and
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the general manager of Lakeview and it -- seeing it in person puts a whole new light on
the report. I had an opportunity to review the entire report from our consultant for the
capital expenditure recommendations and wholeheartedly agree with my fellow Council
Members this -- this is an imminent need. I'm phenomenally impressed with the -- with
the course staff and KemperSports has been able to do not having these already available
to them. It's -- they are -- they are really -- I mean they are in some ways kind of pulling
a rabbit out of a hat pretty much on a daily basis and the thing that struck me the most in
taking that very eye opening tour was the -- one of the major concerns I had with potential
safety issues, especially with the carts. I think that we have been really fortunate that --
not we, the city, but the community has been very fortunate that -- that there hasn't been
any issues according to the general managers as far as safety concerns to this point, but
we certainly don't want to have that possibility as the carts get older. So, that's -- I -- I'm
completely supportive of this having had those conversations at length and really
appreciate all the hard work that -- that everyone from the city and Kemper and the staff
at the course have put into this process so far.
Simison: Thank you. And, Council, I know it will be the intention to have a more in-depth
conversation about the rest of the items in the report, just safe it to be that this was the
first big item on the list that was -- that was there. But there is many more conversations
to be had about the rest of the priorities moving forward. And for the record Councilman
Cavener joined us at 4:39, roughly, in this conversation. So, I don't know how much he's
heard or if he needs any recap -- refresh on anything, but, Councilman Cavener, any
questions or comments?
Cavener: Mr. -- Mr. Mayor, I won't ask Mike to rehash. And apologies to the Council for
being late. Mike, thanks for sending the -- the report to me this morning. I look forward
to being able to read that this week and, Mike, you may have touched on this and, if not,
I think it's -- it's an important conversation that we need to have just about the fee recovery
plan for the golf course. I think Council Member Perreault hit the nail on the head that we
have been able to get by -- sorry -- very luckily without any major issues and I appreciate
the staff for bringing forth their concerns. My hope is just that the financial plan to resolve
those concerns is being brought in parallel to the -- the plan to recover the fees or the
costs associated with many of these pieces of equipment that we need to buy.
Barton: Mr. Mayor, Councilman Cavener, we are in the process of putting together an
operating budget that also has a revenue forecast to go along with it and there is a lot of
-- a lot of back and forth that we are doing right now with staff at the course and
KemperSports and we -- we don't have a lot of financial history to go on, so in some ways
this operating budget that we are currently about halfway through is somewhat
hypothetical, but the goal is to create as much revenue as we possibly can and -- and be
conservative with our expenses.
Simison: And as was mentioned, to try to put the money into the right buckets where it
makes sense to cover the costs associated with those elements. I mean right now based
on the numbers you mentioned earlier I'm like I got to think that our cost recovery on this
investment -- you know, it would be interesting to know what that is, but to your point we
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don't have the financial model for a year of operation to know how long it would take us
to recover this investment and these costs and, then, put in the other elements. But that's
all stuff that we can build I think over time and that's what we all want to know.
Barton: Yeah.
Cavener: And Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: I think it's -- thank you, Mr. Mayor. I think it's a good conversation for maybe a
future workshop for us as a Council to have with Finance Department and the Parks
Department. You know, we would probably have a different threshold for a fee recovery
for a golf cart rental than we do for the facility at large and making sure that at least this
body has all kind of-- had the same expectations about that I think could be beneficial as
we embark on this new endeavor.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: Councilman Cavener, if I may also share -- the staff and Kemper have been
-- have been looking for some ways to become more efficient, so they have identified
several inefficiencies, including within the restaurant and the bar, within the -- the
maintenance shop and they are already starting to make some changes to -- to how --
you know, to -- from how much food is ordered to try to minimize waste, to uses of space.
They are already working on that. I think -- it sounded to me like some of the staff are
even taking some initiative that we -- just on their own it was my understanding and Mr.
Barton can correct me for sure, but that's my understanding from the general manager.
So, I'm really happy to see that and I think those will all add up, you know, in -- in the
future and seeing what kind of progress we can make toward having a facility--the course
and the facility to operate more cleanly and with greater revenue.
Simison: Thank you, Council Woman. Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Sure. Mr. Mayor, thank you. Yeah. I'm supportive. It's like we agreed, because
we owned the golf course that we were going to run a capital intensive business and that's
the kind of business that this is and we would need to make these investments, whether
we operated this golf course long term or even if we decided to ultimately exit it to get --
and realize the highest value for this asset. So, regardless of our future plans I view these
investments as necessary to be a good steward for the city. I am supportive.
Simison: Okay. Thank you very much. Council, there -- they already have the spending
authority -- or they already have the budget in place, so we do not need something
specific, unless Council would like to make a motion giving direction. Otherwise, I think
they have what they need from this conversation.
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Barton: Yep.
Simison: Okay. All right.
Barton: Thank you.
26. Fire Department: Discussion of Fire Stations 7 and 8
Simison: Thanks, Mike. And with that we will move on to Item No. 26, which is the Fire
Department regarding the discussion of Fire Station 7 and 8 and I will turn this over to
Chief Blume.
Blume: All right. Thank you, Mr. Mayor and City Council Members. It's really a privilege
to get to present and talk on this subject this evening on behalf of the Meridian Fire
Department and in the six weeks that I have been here there has been a -- a conversation
that's sort of been very organically happening and it's been about -- around growth and,
interestingly enough, as a brief analogy, when we develop as fire officers we learn -- we
are taught to read smoke and the scale of an incident based on the volume, velocity, and
density of smoke. But I think that there is a corollary with the City of Meridian in the -- the
amount of volume, velocity, and density of growth that the City of Meridian has
experienced and certainly this discussion is about areas of service that can be delivered
by Fire Stations 7 and 8 and so when we look at that we are talking about two very specific
pieces of property. Station 7, which is the Lake Hazel and Eagle property, which is down
in the southeast portion of Meridian and the McDermott and McMillan area for Station 8.
The -- let's see here. Sorry. Okay. Sorry. Advancing out of queue. And so this is what
the proposed schematic look -- you know, top down view of what the two stations -- they
are, of course, a co-located location with Meridian Police Department, as well as the
Meridian Fire Department and so what's important to start looking at is this growth that
Meridian has experienced and when we look at that we look at these -- the trends, that
over the past 15 years Meridian has experienced an eight percent growth annually. Now,
what that is correlated in is an increase in call volume to the City of Meridian, calls for
service from the Fire Department. Interestingly enough, in 2020 and according to our
annual report we had 9,525 apparatus responses to service the citizens of the community
of Meridian. As the City of Meridian is well aware, we have an agreed upon five minute
response model that we are shooting for. Unfortunately, we are nowhere near that. We
are not even close. From last year we had an average response time of six minutes and
35 seconds. Working with my team we wanted to dive deeper in that and look at the
analytics behind that and see if that was an accurate representation, a good capture of
the service that we were able to deliver currently to the community of Meridian. What we
have noticed is the number to date is six minutes and 16 seconds. Once again nowhere
near that five minute response time. Now, what's important and what is not captured in
this is also in the contract that there is the five minute response time, but there is also a
90 second chute time that is the allowance of-- from the time the 911 call comes in to the
fire station until the time our firefighters are responding on that piece of apparatus are
given 90 seconds. Our firefighters are doing a great job. They are nowhere near that
number. They are at a minute and five seconds. So, they are beating the expected 90
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second -- 90 second response time. But when we add a minute and five seconds on top
of six and a half minutes we are approaching an eight minute window where people are
receiving the emergency response that they were hoping for. Now, I was really kind of
concerned with these numbers and I think that the city would be considered -- concerned
with those, as well as the citizens as well. But, then, also I reached out to some of our
regional partners to kind of verify or validate, make sure that this just wasn't anecdotal
information, that there was actually something there. I was able to speak with the chief
of Ada County Paramedics Shawn Rayne and he provided me this --these two heat maps
and I think these two heat maps illustrate his -- his concern as well. In 2019 what we
would see is that the -- the locus of calls is generated in the downtown Boise area.
However, in the -- in a one year period he has noticed a shift from the downtown Boise
area to the City of Meridian as being the highest demand and the highest draw of call
volume into the -- into -- for the Ada County Paramedics. So much so that talking with
Chief Rayne he has asked to co-locate a paramedic unit at either Station 6 or at -- at a
future Station 7. He is so interested because he can't -- he doesn't have the ability to buy
land, build a facility and staff that facility to service the -- the community of Meridian in a
timely manner. Another piece of information that's important to note that supports the
idea that we can do better is the response liability rating that -- that the City of Meridian
has from the Fire Department. The City of Meridian Fire Department, even with the
addition of Station 6 last year, is still -- have a response reliability in the -- in the high 70s
to low 80s. Now what that means is when a call in an area comes into the Fire Department
how often is the unit that is in that area going on that call. The gold standard and what
we are shooting for and what we are really hoping for is to be in the 85th percentile. That's
a really really high rating. But being in the -- in the high 70s and low 80s we need to do
better and, interestingly, even with the addition of Station 6 last year the collective trend
down is about three percent drop in our response reliability. There is an additional piece
that's really important for our business community, as well as our residential community
and that is looking at the ISRB rating or -- or the Idaho Surveying and Rating Bureau.
Currently the City of Meridian is at a -- a three and it's a low three. We are coming in right
around the 73rd percentile in that -- in that ISRB rating. What is interesting about that is
that as a composite score. It -- it -- it's -- it's based on several factors, one of which is
communications, another is water distribution, water supply. The third piece is community
risk reduction and our prevention efforts and, finally, the Fire Department. The Fire
Department is heavily weighted. It's given a 50 percent value, while the other ones make
up that other 50 percent composite. City of Meridian is almost perfect in all other areas
in the sense of water supply considered a hundred percent. Communications with Ada
county and the dispatch network is at a hundred percent. Our prevention and community
risk reduction is at 88 percent. And the Fire Department is at 66 percent. Most specifically
and what is highly problematic about that, what drives that number so far down is the lack
of ladder truck service to the community. The distribution of our resources -- meaning the
need for additional stations -- and, then, of course, the company personnel to staff those
stations. So, being able to elevate a ISRB rating from a low two -- to a two -- I'm sorry.
From a low three to a two has a reciprocal impact to the community in reduced insurance
rates for commercial and residential businesses. So, ultimately, we are in the business
of saving lives and property and it's in that order and if we look at the volume of calls in
our community we are not just burning homes, homes aren't, you know, and businesses
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aren't suffering losses, but as you can see the majority of the calls that we are going on
are medical calls and in that sense very much so time is tissue. From an epidemiological
perspective the morbidity and mortality rates exponentially increase beyond that five
minute window that we are struggling to maintain. So, the addition of two fire stations
and the addition to the personnel and the equipment to staff those things is essential and
critical to the public safety of the City of Meridian. So, the recommendation that myself
and my team and the Meridian Fire Department are making is that we build Stations 7
and 8 simultaneously. This is for several reasons. Most importantly is it improves that
responsibility -- or response reliability time to a larger area. We are going to reduce the
loss of life and property. There is, in fact, a cost savings to the Meridian's tax -- Meridian
taxpayer and we will be able to fully utilize the impact fees and this -- building both of
these stations moves us on a very clear path to an improved -- improved ISRB rating.
With an alternate to that recommendation, I'm recommending that we build Fire Station 7
first. It will improve the response reliability, but to a single area of need. I have Mary from
the Rural Fire District here this evening to speak on any concerns regarding their
commitment to contributing to supporting staffing cost for 12 firefighters over a 20 month
period. Additionally, we have Chief Rayne has expressed more than interest, but a
commitment to be a stakeholder in Ada County Paramedics co-locating one of their
paramedic units at Station 7 and probably the biggest detractor of just building one station
is it really doesn't move the needle toward improving our ISRB rating. It just will keep us
at that -- at that three. So, ultimately, I guess what I'm asking from the Mayor and City
Council is some direction for my team moving forward. As we build out our budget we
are looking for the direction are we building two stations, are we building one, or are we
not building any this year. So, at this point I will stand for questions from Mayor and
Council.
Simison: Thank you, Chief Blume. I will reserve my remarks until later in the
conversation. If Council has any questions for Chief Blume at this time.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: Thank you, Chief Blume, for that direct question. Are we building one, two or none.
I like that. I like that. It's -- it's -- you are definitely not beating around the bush. I like
that -- that approach. So, first question that I have. Have we -- have we actually
purchased the property for the -- for the fire station in the northwest? Is that -- is that
under wraps or is that going -- ongoing? Is that done?
Blume: I'm going to look to my team here. If we have purchased -- no, I'm sorry. That
would be -- that would be Station 8. So --
Bongiorno: That property has been purchased.
Redman: Yes. Station 8 -- it hasn't closed yet, but we are waiting for the plat to be
recorded and, then, it will close.
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Bernt: So, it's really close. I mean we got property. We are ready to roll pretty much.
Redman: Exactly. And that's for Station 8.
Bernt: Got you.
Redman: The northwest.
Bernt: Perfect. So, the next question I have is we don't as a city have a perfect track
record as it relates to construction projects and I'm not even just talking about the Fire
Department and fire stations and so Station 6, you know -- how do I say this? It probably
could have been done better. All right? So, my reservation is can we handle the
construction management of two stations at one time? Is that -- and I know I have met
with Chief Butterfield and it's a much different process than it was when -- before when I
was new and didn't know what the questions were to ask during that time. But I just -- I
just need confirmation on the record that we are -- you know, first -- and it's okay to state
what your concerns are. I mean it's okay to -- if you have concerns I would like to know
what those concerns are and how we can help you with them and so two stations at one
time is a big task in my opinion. I just want to make sure we are good to go and if there
is anything as a Council we can do to help with that process if that's where we are going
to go.
Blume: Okay. Councilman Bernt, I have had these conversations certainly. I agree with
your concern. I think that there were some lessons learned from Station 6, but on -- I say
that to say this. I have spoke with my team, as well as Ms. Redman and we have every
bit of confidence that we will be able to execute this supremely and on time and on budget.
Perreault: And if I could add to that. Some conversations have also been had -- I think
what Chief Butterfield has done a great job of is laying out a plan where, again, we are
going to try to deliver on the dates that it says and if something gets delayed we know
where to delay other things along the process, so that we don't experience the same
challenges that came with the last one from that standpoint.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Thanks, chief. So, you know, I -- I have read it. I have met with folks a little bit.
I'm starting to feel a little bit better about the execution risk if we have milestones for
construction and so forth. What I want to understand -- I think if we go back to the slide
that sort of shows a growth around these two areas is how boxed in are we in terms of
developments that have already been approved that are outside of that five minute
response time in these two areas? If we could kind of narrow in on what -- what that
amount is for things that, again, they have been approved, they are happening, what is
the quantity of -- of homes or buildings -- whatever you have in these two areas.
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Simison: Would you like Chief Butterfield to share his screen, as he always does a good
job of pulling that up. I'm sorry. Chief Bongiorno. I apologize. I was looking at one and
the other one. But Chief Bongiorno is I know online.
Blume: I was going to be impressed actually here.
Bongiorno: Mr. Mayor, give me just one moment, I'm pulling it up right now. I saw it
coming. Okay. Here we go. All right. Can you guys see the map now?
Simison: Yes.
Bongiorno: Did the map come up?
Simison: Yes, we can see it.
Bongiorno: Okay. Perfect. So, in -- in this area -- sorry, Chief. If you don't mind I will
start. So, in this area where Station 7 sits the biggest project that has been approved
that's outside of that area is this corner here at Lake Hazel and -- where is that? Locust
Grove. We have this big area that's being developed right now where our response times
we are well outside just -- we barely touch that one area and, then, we also have this
whole subdivision that's existing that also falls outside of our response time. We just saw
a project here that came in Tuesday night that was denied that they are trying to come in
that's outside -- you know, part of it is outside of our response time. That first map that
showed the two stations with the area of response -- again, those show that there is
numbers in the center of those maps and that shows everything that's been approved.
That's coming -- that's coming that will be covered by these two fire stations. So, again,
if we -- if we click on the future -- I mean when we add that station everything turns green,
which is good. So, again, that's with it -- or without it and that's what it looks like with it.
It's not an exact science, but it's pretty close and, then, on the northwest station --
Simison: And chief--
Bongiorno: -- again we have -- I'm sorry?
Simison: I was just going to point out I think Century Hill Farm -- most of that subdivision
area that's already built was also outside the five minutes.
Bongiorno: Correct. Yeah. So, this whole area right here -- again you can see with and
without it it -- it's going to cover a lot of this area as well. We all know -- we have seen
projects in this square mile here, McMillan and Black Cat and McDermott, all of these
areas are outside of our response time. Plus we have the high school that's outside of
our response time as well that's being built. So, we -- we already have projects that have
been approved that are outside of our response times. So, as we continue to grow that's
the issue that -- the hard part that I'm having with my reports is we are -- we are -- we are
getting outside of these zones and -- and all I can say is, yeah, we can service it, but
what's it going to look like. That's -- that's the issue.
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Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Yeah. Totally get that and -- and I -- I have this philosophy that I -- I think we
can take the lessons learned and when it comes to areas of Meridian that we really have
not developed yet, especially in that, you know, kind of southwest corner, I think it would
be great for us philosophically to talk about waiting and kind of catching up before we
approve into that zone for this reason. I just -- I want to understand what the number of
buildings are in those two areas that we have already approved, because I -- I sort of look
at it like there is a financial aspect and I understand the inflation argument. I'm not sure
how much weight I give that. We could get into that. But I -- what I do give a lot of weight
to is how much have we already approved that we have committed to providing services
in those areas, how many buildings do we have in these areas that are outside of the five
minutes and, then, you take that in with the reliability factor and, yeah, obviously, a high
school -- right. But wanted to get those numbers -- those numbers. Just like get -- kind
of crystallize that.
Bongiorno: So, chief, can you go back to that map that showed seven and eight. Yeah.
Right there. So, Mr. Mayor and Council Woman Strader, that--that map right there shows
currently in that south area we have 9,130 -- I think they called it doorways or entities out
in that area. The date -- when Doug Green created this map for us we had 3,582 future
doorways, structures, dots on the books and it's the same with the -- the northwest we
had -- currently we have 3,853 dots in the books and, then, we had an additional 3,000
that have been approved that were coming. So, that was kind of what this map was to
represent to show that, you know, we have 9,000 items on the -- on the list, whether it's
doorways, roof tops, I can't remember exactly what it was. I would have to go back and
read my e-mail. But that was the purpose of this map was to kind of show that, hey, these
areas are growing and we have a lot coming in the south and in the northwest.
Strader: Right.
Bongiorno: And this map is I believe about six months old now.
Strader: Sure. And we have got Pinnacle and a bunch of additional developments. You
know. So, I --just to summarize, I view us as morally obligated to try to figure this out. I
want to understand what the levers are that we can pull financially and through the
construction process and I went through this with Deputy Chief Butterfield, but that there
are milestones along the way where -- for example, we wouldn't be hiring a whole station
of firefighters if we are not delivering our, you know, CO on time or we are going to have
a milestone where we -- I want to understand that -- from the fire chief -- from you, Chief
Blume, I want to hear that you are going to be like --just like Councilman Bernt said, but
you are like laser on it, so each time there is a milestone that's not being met we are not
creating a financial hole for ourselves by committing to additional costs, especially in labor
if something's not going okay and that you would be keeping us really closely updated.
Obviously, I would be as Council liaison, but that we would be really like synced up on it.
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If you could just address those things.
Blume: Council Woman Strader, yes, I -- I would absolutely agree with you that the work
that Chief Butterfield has done in producing the Gantt charts. It is fantastic and it does,
in fact, address and put on a very clear and delineated timeline, milestones and I like as
you put it, levers that indicate when things fall into place. It trips actions to move forward
within the project and not until those milestones are met does the -- you know, the
preceding event take place and certainly to your point with the hiring of personnel and
staff that -- that is pushed very far off into the future with regard to being assured that the
station is online, the apparatus is there and that we are able to put the right people in the
right seats at the right time. So, again, I would go back and say what Chief-- what Chief
Butterfield did with those Gantt charts really really makes it very easy to follow and
understand and track.
Simison: And if I could just follow up on what -- a couple of comments. One of the things
when the chief and I were talking about which, the northwest or the southeast, should
move forward, it was really focusing in on the amount of buildings that were already there
that would be serviced. Now, I think that's what I heard was really one of the things that
pushed it over. Now, subsequent to that there has been additional conversations, which
he framed as well, that -- that helped contribute to that. What that map didn't I think show
that maybe I thought I heard you were asking was how many -- how many dwelling units
are outside of the five minute response area right now. That might be something
interesting to figure out for the future to kind of put it in larger perspective, because a lot
of the stuff in the south is already covered by Station 6 and 5. Not completely. So, there
is a little bit of that. But same with the northwest, I think some of that is also covered by
other stations as well. And, for the record, Councilman Hoaglun joined us at 5:10 for this
conversation. Council, further questions for Chief Blume?
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: Thank you very much. I would like to invite the chief -- I noticed that he didn't
go over in detail the numbers that were included in the packet for our review and so if
there is anything in there that he would like to point out to us in terms of cost and/or
savings differences between the first and second options, I would like to hear from him
directly on that and, then, just wanted to say I agree with -- with the Mayor that it would
be interesting to see how many of these approved future properties or doors are currently
outside of the five minute response time. I don't -- I don't know -- I would like to see that
information. I don't know if that is the number one factor for me in this decision, but it
would be -- I think it would -- any kind of data that we can have to help us make this
decision and -- and specifically regarding the time frames that are presented in these two
different options will be helpful. So, if-- if Chief Blume could share his thoughts on that I
would appreciate it.
Blume: Council Woman Perreault, thank you for the question. Yes, with -- with regard to
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the anticipated or prospected cost savings, we are looking at an anticipated cost savings
of the -- the concurrent builds being a tax savings -- or, I'm sorry, a savings of between
1.2 million and 1.3 million dollars based on economies of scale if building two stations
simultaneously. The purchase of two fire trucks. Volume purchasing, essentially, would
be about an estimated 18,000 dollar savings for purchasing two at once and, then, there
is the anticipated inflation over a three year period with the separation in the two projects
and so if we are looking at seven million dollars over three years with a five percent annual
inflation, that's a million dollars right there in savings for the simultaneous build. But,
truthfully, for more -- more specifics on -- on the budget piece of it I would -- I would refer
to the finance -- Todd Lavoie. I don't know if he has anything to add to that piece, but
that's the anticipated savings right off the top for building the two stations.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor, a follow up if I may.
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: Thank you, Chief Blume. Was there anything you would like to add about the
staffing -- the timing of the staffing of these two and if there is any cost -- if there are any
cost benefits to staffing, interviewing, hiring. I assume they wouldn't be exactly at the
same time, because you -- even in the first scenario you wouldn't start construction
immediate -- you know, on -- in the same month, but I just -- if you could give -- give me
some clarification on how the staffing would work and how the funding would work and
any significant differences between the two proposals.
Blume: With regard to the staffing there is a couple of things. So, internally there needs
to be promotional processes, which are already underway to develop internal lists to fill
the roles of the fire -- I'm sorry, the engineer captains, as well as establishing a list for
eligible battalion chiefs and that is already underway and in process. There is no cost
associated with that, because those are just lists of people eligible to move into those
higher ranks. With regard to the onboarding of staff, working with my team we have talked
about doing a two tiered approach. One of which -- and this is a huge cost savings or
potentially huge and I don't like using that word, but I will use it not in an exaggerated
term, but in a literal sense that if we are able to hire one group that can come to the
Meridian Fire Department as a lateral transfer coming to us, the City of Meridian, with
their firefighter credentials and their paramedic rank, that shortens the period of time that
we need to run a fire academy. That shortens the duration of time that they are hired and
lessens the amount of time that we are paying them to be in a -- in a fire academy versus
bringing them into an active role. Those are a couple of things that we have looked at.
With regard to I would say offsetting the cost of-- of staff to the Station 7, which is at Lake
Hazel and Eagle Road, we have had an open dialogue and a conversation and that's why
I have the commissioner from the rural fire district here this evening to speak if you have
any additional questions for him, regarding a commitment or a discussion and dialogue
about funding 12 positions for the first 20 months to staff that station in the south.
Simison: And just from a very practical standpoint, you know, with the -- as a rule we will
make that determination. It doesn't have any bearing on the cost savings to the city,
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because I think it's whether you do one or two. If the one in the south moves forward that
remains the same. But what it does do is it provides additional service to our residents
over 20 months and what is the value of that -- if you want to call it savings or other things.
There is an operational cost, but it is a service delivery for up to two years.
Blume: Correct. And, Mr. Mayor, I believe that the number that we were discussing is
approximately 1.2 million dollars.
Simison: Okay.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Let me see if there is anybody else who would like to speak first, because we
have three Council Members who have yet to engage.
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Cavener: I'm happy to hear from Council Member Strader. I have got some questions,
but if she's on to something I'm happy to wait.
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I kind want to dovetail on that -- on the savings question
and I have -- I have got concerns -- and the answer to me to your very first question is
you do Station 7 and you go now and you get one done and one of the reasons I get to
that conclusion is when we talk about savings, one versus two at the same time, it looks
like from the numbers in the report on the issue of -- of money saved by doing it quicker
-- if we assume all that to be true, accelerating the labor cost for the second station quicker
than you would if you did them separate, more than consumes all the savings. So, doing
two together doesn't net save anything and that still might be fine, but -- and finance is on
and they can correct me, but it looked like your-- even with the rural's contribution, which
is the same regardless, which is fantastic, it seemed like accelerating the labor costs that
we would pick up quicker by doing two stations engulfed the savings. So, I guess the first
question is am I off on that proposition or is that -- is it more that the recommendation is
do two stations at the same time, you are not going to save any net money, but it's still
appropriate for other nonmonetary reasons.
Blume: Councilman Borton, I will defer that question to Todd. However, I do agree with
the assessment that it's for nonmonetary reasons to build both stations.
Borton: And Mr. Mayor?
Lavoie: Mr. Mayor, Councilman Borton, I'm happy to give my thoughts on Mr. Borton's
comments. Again, as long as we have the contribution from the rural fire as they -- we
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have discussed in our meetings and our timeline stands as is, dollars out of the pocket
for the City of Meridian should be pretty even. I mean there might be a few dollars that
we might spend a little bit more if we do accelerate the -- bringing on those stations, but
the way Robert and Kris and myself have set this up we feel that the total cost out of the
pockets of the citizens should be equal on the two stations being deployed at the same
time.
Borton: Mr. Mayor? Let me put on a --
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: -- where I'm missing it. Thanks. So, if you have got -- you are either hiring, all
things being equal, 12 firefighters or 24 firefighters and it's that second 12 firefighters that
are being hired 24 months earlier than they otherwise would be hired, you have got 24
months of labor costs, the million seven of ongoing labor costs times two, that you
wouldn't incur during year one and two if you hired them in year three and it's that -- that
three million dollars of labor cost that you incur doing them together that you don't incur
by doing them separate. That's what seemed to engulf any savings in construction costs
and fire engines and costs, et cetera. So, am I -- am I correct -- now what -- now --
Simison: Councilman --
Borton: Yeah.
Simison: --just sort of correct. If we did the space up in northwest first, then, that throws
it all out of the water, because, then, the rural's contribution could change dramatically
and it may or may not exist or when it may exist may be a question. So, part of it -- part
of it could be timing, part of it could be location and part of it could be which one goes
first. We have the recommendation from the chief, obviously, for the one in the south, but
if Council said, nope, we are going north, I don't know what the rural's contribution would
be when or if, which could change the numbers that you are talking about --
Borton: Okay.
Simison: -- from that standpoint.
Borton: Okay. I appreciate that. So, assuming that -- assuming for this illustration that
seven in the south goes and assuming the rural contribution goes, then, doing eight
quicker and incurring those labor costs per eight, quicker has a greater net expense than
if you did them separate. I mean it's a million five a year times two years --
Blume: It -- that -- yes. It seems that that would be the case.
Borton: Todd, is that -- did that clarify -- or am I off still?
Lavoie: Again, we will incur more costs because now you are running two stations, as
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opposed to one station. So, you are going to have operational costs because you have
got the second fire station, which would not have existed if you didn't build it --
Borton: Got it.
Lavoie: -- until later. So, yes, I agree with you there, you will have -- you will incur
additional operations costs. Again, it's all about the timing on how we do the staffing of
the two stations, because we do have a very generous possible donation from the rural
fire district and if that is meeting our time timelines we can schedule it so that that rural
fire contribution allows for the coverage of that additional cost that you are speaking of,
because you are bringing him on earlier, it should -- if we do it correctly it should bear
zero cost difference to the citizens of the city, because we will start the actual paying of
our tax dollars to our -- by our union members at the exact same day that we open the
station at that later time frame. It really falls on to us on how we do the timing of that.
Simison: And I think it goes back to the point that was made before that there is a cost
for every service and it's a question whether or not the additional 18 to 24 months of
service has that value -- is that worth the value. I mean that's really what it comes down
to. If we -- because you are -- you are correct, there are extra costs, there are savings,
there are costs, there are things, but what is the value, whether it's real in terms of service,
what is the value of the service to the calls, what is the value of the ISRB rating to
taxpayers. There is all sorts of intrinsic -- other elements which are tangible and not
tangible from a financial standpoint to the city.
Borton: Got it. Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: That's for me at least just clarifying that. It's not -- the monetary argument to do
two at once didn't -- didn't make sense. It didn't provide a net savings. Again, there may
be other reasons to not do it or to do it two at a time, but it wasn't a money thing, so I will
stop with that question and --
Simison: I think there is -- there was the unpopular thing, but the construction and
purchase does save the money. You could always build it and not -- choose not to staff it
for a year or two afterwards. I know that's not a popular thing, but from a cost savings it
would provide a construction cost savings, but not an operational cost savings.
Councilman --
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: -- Cavener.
Cavener: Thanks, Mr. Mayor. First, Chief Blume picked a heck of an agenda topic that
would be before the City Council for the first time. What a wild six weeks. I want to talk
a little bit -- because I hadn't considered the -- the ISRB rating and -- and I'm not going to
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ask you to kind of look historically about that rating in Meridian, but I'm hoping maybe
some of the staff or, Mr. Mayor, you may have some background. I recall a time -- maybe
it was like 2011 -- where we were ranked two. We had a two rating. We dropped from a
three to a two. So, what caused it to go from a two to a three and what guarantees do
we have that once we do this that a year or two later we don't move back up to a three?
I'm not quite sure who I'm directing that question to, because I'm not sure who is equipped
to answer, but-- but it's a piece that has kind of landed since I have seen the presentation.
Simison: Chief Blume is more than prepared to answer that question.
Blume: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Councilman Cavener. Yes, you are correct. There was a
point where Meridian was -- had an ISRB rating of a two. However, due to an increase
-- again using the word explosive increase in the -- the community, in businesses and in
residential structures and just people, that ISRB rating is now out of tune, so to speak.
So, we have more people and more occupancies and more businesses and because of
that the Fire Department hasn't had -- experienced the commensurate growth that would
go along to accompany that. So, the Fire Department is in a little bit of a -- not being
proactive or very reactionary at this point in trying to regain lost ground as far as the size
and the ability of the Fire Department. And, again, that's where the ISRB rating is -- is
weakest. In fact, it is the only area that would prevent the City of Meridian from being a
one, because again -- and I have the report here in front of me and I can provide it to
Council if you would like to look at the most recent one. It's from 2019. Again our ability
to distribute water via hydrants and water systems. The ability to inspect those systems.
Our community risk reduction programs, our prevention programs, our enforcement
programs are at a hundred percent. The communications network that Ada county that
we enjoy with -- being partners with Ada county is at a hundred percent, but our Fire
Department is the thing that's sinking in the sense that it's at 66 percent and some of the
areas of our performance are in the 30s and 40s and so that -- those numbers aren't
arbitrary, they are -- they are basically derived from looking at best case scenarios and
best models to deliver the highest level of fire protection to a community and so there are
no ISRB one communities in Idaho. There are -- I believe there is one that is currently a
two and everybody else falls down below that. Now, interestingly enough, so what does
that mean to the community and how -- what is the benefit to the resident -- residential
and business community and what I was able to do is work with insurance.com and,
basically, extrapolate an example of a benefit of an increased ISRB rating to the
community of Meridian. So, for example -- and I'm going to read here in a paraphrase
sense, but if the City of Meridian Fire Department had an ISRB rating of class two and in
Meridian a home insurance policy that could rebuild a 350,000 dollar home and cover a
hundred thousands dollars in liability with a one thousand dollar deductible, would run an
average of 1,050 dollars according to insurance.com -- their analysis of rates from eight
area insurance companies. In comparison where the fire department has an ISRB rating
of a class six, that same coverage would cost an individual 1 ,336 and in rural areas of
Idaho where they had a class 8B rating the cost is 1,416 dollars on average. So, it -- it
benefits the residents in the community of Meridian to have a higher ISRB class rating
from a financial standpoint, as well as from a service delivery perspective. And that's --
again, this is -- this is -- you know, this is just from a resident -- residential perspective. It
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-- a lot of things go into determining that number, the age of the home, the square footage
of the home and, then, there is a different metric for commercial businesses and
commercial businesses actually enjoy a much greater benefit of an enhanced ISRB
rating.
Simison: Councilman Cavener, one thing that the chief shared with me earlier was it --
because I said, well, we use the six and a two. Well, we are a three. They tend to group
their ratings together. So, there -- it doesn't sound like we just can get like -- well, what if
we are a four versus a two, you know, and so take that with a grain of salt, but there could
be a nexus of 300 dollars difference -- two hundred, one hundred, it's hard to say from a
practical standpoint without doing more work. But yes.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: One additional question if -- if I may. Obviously, the -- the bulk of our
conversation this afternoon has focused on the two fire stations, but at least in one of the
slides it's conceived again this dual purpose campus. Where -- where is PD in these
types of conversations and I don't think regardless of whatever type of direction Council
is -- is going to provide, it's not being done in a vacuum about fire stations only. So, where
and when does the conversation about police substations come into the conversation?
Simison: Chief Blume?
Blume: Councilman Cavener, I don't know that I'm -- I'm the most appropriate person to
speak on behalf of the Meridian Police Department, but from a planning perspective
maybe Ms. Redman could answer something on -- on those lines.
Simison: Maybe, Councilman Cavener, I can -- these are not -- you know, the way this is
being built is the decisions made here today don't have an impact on the police
department, because the buildings are separated from a very practical standpoint and I
-- and from my conversations with the chief I know that they are more interested in the
northwest station going first than the southeast station and, of course, you -- there has
been many previous budgets approved for this purpose, so -- but I will turn it over to Ms.
Redman, if she has anything to add.
Redman: Mr. Mayor, you are correct, they are more interested in the northwestern. I
know that they are looking at -- you know, when it would bring it down in the -- in the south
and that that's conversations that I haven't even, you know, been privy to. So, I can't
speak to that.
Simison: Councilman Cavener, you may not have heard that, but, basically, what I said
is what was the case at this point in time is they are looking more at the northwest at this
time without a specific southeast time frame.
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Cavener: Okay. Mr. Mayor, just -- just a comment. I -- I appreciate the -- the response
and statement from you. I am -- it will be really challenging for me I think to provide a lot
of clear direction or recommendation from my standpoint, because the fire station pieces
are only one part of an overall puzzle. Especially if this is the direction that PD wants to
go and Fire wants to go is kind of this shared campus model. It just opens -- I think it
creates more questions than answers.
Simison: Councilman Cavener, maybe the best thing to try to do mentally is draw a line,
because there is a line between the two and view them as separate projects and
applications long term, because that's --that's, essentially, what it will be. Even the police
-- how they are going to be utilized is going to be different. You know, they can bring on
the buildings without being on staff and other requirements. So, it may be a financial time
frame about when it makes sense, but we can ask the chief to come and talk about these
in the future, about his plans for both of these from that standpoint. I know that may not
be easy, but that would be my request is try to bifurcate the shared -- shared property, but
different purposes and, you know, different -- yeah, different purposes of the buildings
even from that standpoint.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Yes. Thank you. Apologies for being late. Work commitment kept me from
being here to hear the bulk of the presentation, but I'm very familiar with what's going on
serving as Fire liaison last year. But I do want to ask--and this may have been addressed
earlier and that is the time frame for the Council to make a decision on this and based on
the legislature going back into session for approximately two weeks. Are we going to wait
until we know what the status of property taxes are before we make any decision.
Simison: Chief, I will spare you that one from that standpoint. You know, it is my intention
to bring both of these forward in the upcoming budget for your consideration. That's --
unless I hear a resounding no from Council right now that you are not even willing to
consider it. So, you will have through the budget process to make that determination.
Hopefully by then we will know the outcome from the legislature. But, you know, my
conversations with the CFO, sometimes called the CIF no -- we -- we will make
adjustments and modifications based on what the legislature does to our long-term needs.
I think from a very practical standpoint what I have learned through this -- you know, for
the last 15 months and maybe before then is we have made contracts with people out
there for service to be provided. We have homes that are built -- significant homes. We
have schools that are built. We need to find a way to provide that service and, hey, if
people are open to have other ideas on how to provide a fire service, you know, in a timely
fashion, I'm all ears. But until they invent a new -- new way to do it -- it's going to require
two stations with people and we are three years away, you know, or two --two years away
if we are -- if we -- if we are lucky from now. So, again, we will -- we will work, we will
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adapt, I will work with the team to make sure that we have a financially viable way to pay
for these things. We will make adjustments to the CFP. We have got to do that no matter
what. Everything that -- that we get from Todd is a projection. Those projections can
change. Sometimes they go way up. You know, sales tax revenue way up. Until the
legislature goes and changes it. So, there does become a point in time where you have
to make a plan forward and as circumstances change react and modify appropriately. But
I think we are at that point in time personally where it's appropriate to consider this through
our budget in this upcoming year. Unless I hear resounding no from three -- or four
Council Members today.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: Just one more question. I was reviewing the two different proposals again and
I noticed in the second proposal there is two or three times the comments that that -- that
that CFP -- what is -- what is set aside in the CFP is already scheduled to make that
second proposal work. But I didn't see a lot of commentary regarding how that -- the CFP
would need to be adjusted to make the first proposal work and I apologize if that's already
been shared, but I don't know who would like to answer that question or if that question
is -- is too early to be answered.
Simison: Mr. Lavoie.
Lavoie: Mr. Mayor, the -- Council Woman Perreault, the CFP, the way we developed it is
we are assuming that there will be a contribution of a rural district partnership and we
estimated based on the timeliness of when we hire the second station that the CFP will
not need to be adjusted really at all if we stick with the timelines that we have kind of
projected. So, when the rural fire contribution expires that's when the citizens will, then,
start paying -- the City of Meridian citizens would start paying the payroll for the station
-- the second station that we are referring to. That timing in the CFP we -- Robert and I
worked on it. It should be aligned so that you -- you will see no impact on either timing
that you do. But we did put in the CFP the split, because we did not want to make the
assumptions that we had a revenue source from a secondary intergovernmental agency.
So, that's why it's in the CFP the way it is. But if you are able to build that relationship
with rural fire, then, we will add the revenue stream, we will move expenses forward, and
you should not really see too much of a difference in your five year forecast.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: If you don't mind, Mr. Mayor, I would like to have Commissioner Ward come up
and -- and -- and explain -- you know, maybe give some thoughts in regard to the rural --
you know, their contribution that has been spoke about is significant and I just wanted to
publicly thank the rural fire district on the record for their continued partnership with the
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City of Meridian and our Fire Department. They have been fantastic gentlemen to work
for in the past. So, I just wanted to say thank you first off. But you wanted to take a
couple seconds to -- to give your thoughts to us I would appreciate it.
Ward: Thank you, Mayor and Council. As the representation of the Meridian Rural Fire
Protection District it's been our pleasure --
Bernt: One second, Mark. Can you hear Mark? Can people hear Mark?
Ward: Sorry.
Bernt: I think we are good.
Ward: Take this off. Now you can hear me. See my ugly face. There you go. It's been
our pleasure as the Meridian Fire Protection District over the last few years to be able to
work with the Meridian Fire to purchase properties and to help buy things -- equipment
and things to help forward the protection of the -- of the rural fire protection in association
with the fire department. We have purchased some properties that we have to -- to
anticipate these growths. We have worked with our department on Station 6. We -- we
donate -- or contributed to the funding of firefighters for that one to get that one going also
and we are talking about these things. As the fire protection district we at this point are
very concerned about this south -- excuse me -- southeast section of our district, which
is really where most of the rural fire protection district is at right now. We are seeing these
thousands of homes that are coming online and the closest fire station on that side of the
freeway is Overland and, then, the one on Eagle and four and six. So, those -- those
have a response time, but they are way out there. You know, I was here a couple weeks
ago with a different hat on as a concerned citizen about a response time for my wife that
-- we live out there that was eight minutes. She wasn't breathing. So, I was concerned
about that obviously. Knowing as my position as fire -- rural fire department chief -- or
Commissioner that these times are too far out and we need to protect our citizens. You
know, we have a lot of response time now and as that traffic and those homes -- those
doors come online we are going to be fighting that even more to -- our response time is
not going to go down, it's just going to go up in the next couple years as all these 1000s
of homes come online. So, we are talking as a Commission to work with -- with you and
the fire department to bring some -- some monies in for firefighters to help staff the station
that will protect that rural fire protection area and we -- you know, we have always been
trying to be a partner that we need to be and help with the -- the needs of the Meridian
city and -- to make that work. So, you know, we are here to try to help. Hopefully, you
know, it will benefit you and I understand there is a lot of money flying around here and
talking about that, but if we -- if we put that all together and work through the cycles I think
that -- that we can make this work for -- for the benefit of you and us as a rural fire
protection.
Bernt: Awesome.
Ward: Any questions?
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Simison: Council, any questions?
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Just a comment. I -- I appreciate your comment about the budget. I think it is
good to try to get to a spot where we formulate a consensus earlier and I just -- I feel like
from the standpoint of making development decisions, this is a really important collective
decision for us to figure out going forward. This piece of the legislature I think is a huge
question. I assume that we would completely revisit all of this if that were to come to
pass. But I just -- you know, I -- I'm kind of getting at a spot where it's like, you know, is it
responsible to approve developments outside of the five minute response time if there is
not funding in place for fire stations? I feel like we have been boxed in partly. Not
anyone's fault. We have a high school and we are addressing that partnership. We have
got a high school that was there that opened up development and services and we have
got a ton of development in south Meridian that's already underway. It's already
happening. We have homes there and I just -- I'm going to go for the two -- the attempt
to build two at once, knowing we could watch it really closely and try to remove that
execution risk. I think I'm confident in the team that they are all over it from a different
standpoint, but I do have to say I view it as disorderly. I wish we didn't end up in a spot
where we had to do two at one time and I hope going forward that there are areas that
are not priority growth areas that that will help solve that problem going forward, because
it's -- it's really unfortunate to be in a position to have to extend this much financially I
think to protect the people living in the city.
Simison: Thank you.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: I want to thank Chief Blume and Commissioner Ward for-- and staff that are here
to support and -- and the information that was given this evening. Appreciate all of the
discussion from Council, from the Mayor. It's been hugely beneficial for me. The one
outstanding piece that I have is just our state legislature, to be completely honest with
you. They are just really making it difficult for locals right now and I will just say it on the
record. I have said it to some of their faces, so it's not a -- so it's not a surprise. But I just
-- I just hope and pray that -- that -- that we can come to an agreement at the state
legislature with -- in conjunction with the locals, so that we can continue to provide the
services that our citizens expect, not only in the City of Meridian, but throughout the state.
It's hugely important. So, I don't know if I can give you direction tonight personally
because of that, but I think that we have a little bit of time, maybe, to see what that looks
like. At the end of the day we need two fire stations. I don't think that there is any way of
getting around it. I don't think there is a person that's sitting on this dais that has decision
making authority that would tell you otherwise. It's just a matter of how that works and
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how that plays out. So, great presentation. Thank you, staff. And we will see how this
plays out.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: A follow-up question for -- for Todd. Mr. Lavoie, as I understand things, our
concern isn't so much in the -- the building -- construction of the facilities, it's in the
ongoing staffing needs and the costs associated with that and in order to achieve the
revenue projections to afford hiring for two stations it would require the City Council to
take our current foregone revenue, as well as take the three percent as allowable by law
for the next four years? Is my reading of that accurate? Inaccurate? Somewhat
accurate?
Lavoie: Mr. Mayor, Councilman Cavener, the current comprehensive financial plan has
the assumptions that the Council for the next five years will take the full three percent
allowable. We did not put any foregone assumptions into our revenue stream, but, again,
we did have the assumptions that the state would not change any legislature. The
development would still follow kind of our plan, but those are the assumptions that we are
managing within our comprehensive financial plan and the projections. As Robert stated,
they are projections. That's the data that we have. And I completely support Mr. Bernt's
comments and Mayor's comments that if the legislature decides to make some shifts in
our revenue stream, we will be adaptable and we will not present to you anything that
would put the city in any financial burden over the next five to ten years we will adapt and
adjust our request to you and to the citizens accordingly.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor, follow up.
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Todd, that also didn't include the assumptions that the other items that are listed
on the CFP would still come forth as regular budget requests as part of the regular budget
cycle. It's not the case that we would take the three percent and wouldn't take on any
other budgetary requests, we would still be able to take on budgetary requests as outlined
in the CFP?
Lavoie: Correct, Luke. If all things stayed perfect and our assumptions were one hundred
percent, the request would still be presented to you as is -- as displayed in the
comprehensive financial plan. Again, we will adjust our revenue projections. The CFP is
completed in the month of November. We will be presenting to you the budget in the
month of June. We will have new data and we will adapt our CFP according to any
revenue increases or decreases and will present to you what we believe is in the best
interest of the citizens for fiscal '22 and the budget request.
Cavener: Okay. Thanks, Todd.
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Lavoie: Thank you.
Simison: And, Councilman Cavener, this is one of the reasons why -- you know, I have
had some departments come and want to just increase numbers in the CFP because the
building is now going to cost more. Well, it may or we may have to build it for what we
put in there or we have to make adjustments and I think that's the main thing I want all
Council --we are constantly making revisions and adjustments and having conversations.
We try to only do it once a year. But the CFP is a guide, it's not a guarantee, and we will
continue to make those adjustments. I can tell you, you know, our-- our sales tax revenue
is way above all projections, you know, right now. The legislature could adjust that, too,
you know. So, everything is a constantly moving target and we did the best with what we
got, but, you know, I think the question to Council -- to me is if you look at the CFP and
what's asked for, you know, what has a higher value than public safety? Is it the police
and fire needs? That's what we would look to first as far as adjustments when we start
looking at revenue. But at the same time the fire department cannot operate without
operational assistance from any of our departments. So, it's a fun game.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Just real quick. I'm leaning towards two. As has been stated we just need to
wait and see what happens. So, come June we should have all that information. But
right now I'm leaning towards trying to do two.
Simison: Did someone else look to speak? I couldn't see who it was.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Thanks, Mr. Mayor. And I think the reason for some of my -- my questions are
-- clearly I think you, the department, has been a fine example of demonstrating the need
for-- for both stations. I think Council Member Bernt hit the nail on the head. I don't think
anybody is disputing that we need to build two stations. Frankly, we should be starting to
talk about an additional station as well. I mean those conversations and start to begin
now. My -- my only concern is about our -- our ability to afford to be able to staff both
stations and, again, it will come to no surprise to this body my reluctance about property
tax increase is foregone and how we -- how we are able to achieve what I think the
department and what -- Mr. Mayor, what you have lined out that the -- my reluctance to
talk about property tax increases. So, the other part I think is important for us to note is I
think it's a -- it's a reality for us is that every year there is going to be some type of action
in the legislature that's going to impact us in one way, shape, or form. So, I think that we
have got to become a little bit more versatile in how we respond to that, recognizing that
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local government we will always find, you know, the best response possible to the actions
of our -- of our state lawmakers. So, we can't continue to only do our job for six months
out of the year while we wait for the legislature to make their decision. So, I'm looking
forward to the conversation this summer. I don't think that I have got a good direction on
this. Go forth do one. Go forth do two. Right now there is just -- I just don't have all the
answers to the questions that are out there.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: When we first started on this path having this conversation quite some time
ago my initial response was that I was favorable of building the two stations at the same
time. For me I could -- I would like to see, if it's possible, a little more refinement on the
numbers for the staffing. As Councilman Borton mentioned, I have also been having the
same concerns about -- about, you know, whether there actually is any cost savings to
do it at the same time, because of the staffing. However, while I am not a member of the
commercial construction community, I have enough involvement in the industry that I'm
aware that the costs that are being proposed for increases in construction and in -- in two
to three years in my opinion will be higher than five percent. So, I think that that's a
conservative number on what the cost increases will be if we wait and -- and consider
proposal number two. I think we have underestimated what the additional expenses will
be in three years. So, I -- I'm still currently leaning in the direction of wanting to see both
be built at the same time. However, I have some reservation about whether our numbers
are completely accurate, although I think they are as accurate as we can get at this
moment in time and at any point in the next few months as we approach the budget
process, I know that you and the Fire Department will be working on any new information
that comes in that will help us make a better decision, a clearer understanding of any
costs associated that might change. So, that's all I really have to add at this moment. I
agree that we -- we need to wait and see until the legislative session is over. However, I
don't know that -- I think that's -- that's mostly going to be so that we can adjust likely
other budgetary items, because there is such an imminent need for these two stations.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: One final comment from me. I -- I hope that the citizens of Meridian understand
and realize that you, the Council, that doesn't just work six months out of the year, we --
we work the entire year and I -- and I hope that -- and I hope that what Mr. Cavener said
was in relation to what position that we --that we have been put in by the state legislature,
not necessarily how we have approached the situation. Just wanted to make that clear.
Simison: With that, Council, any final comments? Okay. I thank you all for the frank,
honest conversation. I think we all understand where we are and why and understand
that there is also -- sometimes the unknown is scary and at some point in time that
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decision will have to be made. We will continue to monitor -- we will continue to update.
It will be at least tentatively brought forward in this upcoming budget year, unless
something changes dramatically that puts the funding that will be in contact. So, with that
I would like to make sure we take a break before the next meeting and try to start that at
6:10 if that works for people. So, do I have a motion?
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: I move that we adjourn the meeting.
Borton: Second.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to adjourn. All in favor signify by saying aye.
Opposed no. The ayes have it. We are adjourned.
MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 5:57 P.M.
(AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
4 / 20 2021
MAYOR ROBERT E. SIMISON DATE APPROVED
ATTEST:
CHRIS JOHNSON - CITY CLERK
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