HomeMy WebLinkAbout2021-01-19 Regular Minutes Item#2.
Meridian City Council January 19, 2021.
A Meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 6:00 p.m., Tuesday, January
19, 2021, by Mayor Robert Simison.
Members Present: Robert Simison, Joe Borton, Luke Cavener, Treg Bernt, Jessica
Perreault, Brad Hoaglun and Liz Strader.
Also present: Chris Johnson, Bill Nary, Joe Dodson, Alan Tiefenbach, Jamie Leslie, Joe
Bongiorno and Dean Willis.
ROLL-CALL ATTENDANCE
Liz Strader _X_ Joe Borton
_X_ Brad Hoaglun _X_Treg Bernt
X Jessica Perreault _X Luke Cavener
_X_ Mayor Robert E. Simison
Simison: Council, I will call this meeting to order. For the record it is Tuesday, January
19th, 2021, at 6:00 p.m. We will begin tonight's meeting with roll call attendance.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
Simison: Next item is the Pledge of Allegiance. If you will all rise and please join us in
the pledge.
(Pledge of Allegiance recited.)
COMMUNITY INVOCATION
Simison: Thank you. Our next item is our community invocation, which will be delivered
by Randy Rodes of reSurge Christian Church this evening. If you would all, please, join
us in the community invocation or take this as is a moment of silence and reflection for
yourself. Pastor Rodes.
Rodes: Mayor Simison, thank you for this opportunity and, Council Members, to come
and pray tonight. Lord, we thank you for this great City of Meridian. We pray your blessing
upon it and upon this meeting tonight and, Lord, you tell us in your Word that if we
acknowledge you in all that we do, that you will direct our paths. So, I pray, God, that you
would be with every one of our Council Members and our Mayor tonight as they would
acknowledge you, God, in these decisions and all that is decided would be done for your
perfect will and this great city. We pray this in Jesus' name, amen.
ADOPTION OF AGENDA
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Simison: Thank you. Appreciate it. Council, next item is the adoption of the agenda.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: There is a change to the agenda. Item 4, Executive Session, we took everything
-- we took care of everything -- everything previously in our -- after our 4:00 o'clock
workshop, so I move that we approve the agenda, minus Item 4. We will strike that.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor, I second the amended agenda -- adopted amended agenda.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to adopt the agenda as amended. Is there any
discussion? If not, all in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay. The ayes have it and
the agenda is agreed to as amended.
MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES.
PUBLIC FORUM — Future Meeting Topics
Simison: Mr. Clerk, do we have anyone signed up under the public forum?
Johnson: Mr. Mayor, there were no signups.
ACTION ITEMS
1. Public Hearing for Earl Glen Subdivision (TECC-2020-0003) by Riley
Planning Services, Located at 1780 E. McMillan Rd.
A. Request: A 2-year Time Extension on the preliminary plat in order to
obtain the City Engineer's signature on a final plat and extend the
time to commence the multi-family use as permitted with the
conditional use permit.
Simison: Okay. Then we will move into Action Items. Our first item is a public hearing
for Earl Glen Subdivision, TECC-2020-0003. I will open this public hearing with staff
comments and turn it over to Joe.
Dodson: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council. Good evening. As noted, the
first item on tonight's agenda is for Earl Glen time extension. The site consists of 4.65
acres of land currently zoned R-8 and R-15, located at 1780 East McMillan, which is near
the northeast corner of McMillan and Locust Grove, as seen on the maps here. It received
preliminary plat, a rezone, and conditional use permit approval in 2015. The conditional
use permit was for multi-family. The preliminary plat was for -- I believe something like
16 or 17 lots of single family residential. A one year time extension was approved
administratively in 2017. In 2018 a second time extension, which was approved by City
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Council, was approved, which made the new deadline for the applicant to apply for a final
plat and receive signature by the city engineer October of last year. They did not meet
that, so they asked for a -- they are asking for another time extension in order to have
another two years to obtain signature on the final plat. The previous extension that was
approved required some additional conditions. Since then nothing has changed, so I just
recommended to continue those existing recommendations and just note that future multi-
family here will require certificate of zoning compliance and design review. So, any design
comments there we can take care of at that point. And, then, the road infrastructure and
utilities will all get constructed with the plat. So, that's pretty straightforward. This is the
approved plat. Large open space. A bunch to the west, which is a commercial zoned
property and the multi-family abutting McMillan. I need to zoom in on the multi-family.
The road exists already to about approximately here, just for reference. And, then, this is
just our overall map of the area. And after that I will stand for questions.
Simison: Thank you, Joe. Council, any questions?
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Thanks, Joe. I -- I am just wondering -- it's been so long since this was approved
and a lot of change to the city. We have a new Comprehensive Plan. Do you think in
general that this is the type of project the City Council would approve today? Is it
consistent with our Comprehensive Plan? If it came as a de novo project do you think we
would require other things? How does this sort of compare given the amount of time
that's past.
Dodson: Councilman Strader, great question. I haven't dived too much into the details
of it -- of what was approved or why, but it does meet the comp plan in the sense that it's
a medium density residential and the density proposed meets that, as well as the
proposed uses of single family and multi-family. I think that its inclusion -- and this was
thought out back in 2015 -- of where the open space is located with the street and, then,
the corner property, it's kind of hard to see, but this corner property is zoned commercial,
so that's a good buffer between that and having the multi-family up against the arterial
with a nice landscape buffer is also something that we see typical today. I don't know that
there would be much -- much else to change if this were to come back through. A lot of
the subdivision design guidelines were implemented afterwards, but that is something
that in the previous time extension were added to this as a requirement they need to meet
those, which they appear to do. So, I wouldn't see much difference between what they
would submit now versus what they submitted in 2015, no, ma'am.
Strader: Thank you.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
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Perreault: Joe, has any -- two questions. Has any dirt actually been moved on this yet
at all? And, secondly, I apologize if I didn't hear if the applicant is here this evening to
share their thoughts on the delay.
Dodson: Council Woman Perreault, the applicant is here, yes, in -- in the chambers. She
might be better to answer the first question, too, but I don't believe much dirt, if any, has
been moved. So, I would like to leave that to Penelope to answer, just to give you the
right answer.
Simison: Council, any further questions for staff? Okay. Then I will invite the applicant
to please come forward. And if you can state your name and address for the record,
Penelope, that would be great.
Constantikes: Mayor and Council, Penelope Constantikes. Post Office Box 405, Boise,
Idaho. 83701. 1 have a prepared presentation, but I will try and insert in -- into it answers
to those comments. So, I'm here representing Brinegar Investments. It's a limited liability
-- limited partnership for the request of the time extension for both the Earl Glen
Subdivision preliminary plat and a conditional use permit. The Brinegars do have an
extensive history of subdivision development in Meridian and are currently developing
Whitecliff phase one, which is to the west of the site on McMillan Road. To the property
owners this is a legacy site for their family, because their parents lived along Locust Grove
for many years, so Clyde had a funny story about how his father fell down in the yard
when they bought this property in an auction in 1990. So, anyhow, it's a combination of
single family lots, as you know, and multi-family. The developers actually own the
additional 11 .4 acres that's immediately north of this site and so that's -- that's one of the
pieces that still -- it's still in Ada county. It hasn't been annexed into the city. There are
two primary reasons why they are requesting the time extension. First of all, the site, if
it's combined with the parcel to the north, would encompass the full 16 acres and the
Brinegars are still carefully considering the best way to plan development of the three
parcels in a meaningful way. The stub street that enters the site from Sheridan Place,
which is up on the north boundary, would provide an avenue of connectivity from that
subdivision in the future and Earl Glen westward to Locust Grove Road, with the initial
section being constructed with Earl Glen. At this time there has been no dirt moved with
this project. Second of all, given the structure of the Brinegar Investments is a limited
liability, limited partnership, and given that the principals are dealing with some health
issues, they would like to complete Whitecliff prior to starting the final plat for Earl Glen.
Starting a new subdivision would present issues of the ownership of Earl Glen needed to
be changed in the middle of the project and as it goes without saying, COVID has
complicated every avenue and particle of our lives. The Brinegars are committed to the
Earl Glen project. I spent quite a bit of time with them last week to talk about this. This
is a timing issue, not a lack of commitment, and they would like to plan the incorporation
of the northern 11.4 acres moving forward into their overall plan. Some of the elements
they are considering for the northern parcels include commercial development along
Locust Grove Road, with the extension of a low intensity neighborhood commercial zone
and then -- and, then, the north for a continuation of the single family residential that would
be started with Earl Glen in the interior of the abutting parcel. The staff report mentioned
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that there was one neighbor that called there -- actually two. One neighbor was just north
of McMillan Road and he wanted to know if the multi-family would be adjacent to his site.
He's a brand new homeowner in that -- that particular house. And I said no. And, then,
another neighbor called way north of Earl Glen in Sheridan Place, but like four or five lots
north of our north boundary and wanted to know if there was going to be multi-family next
to his home and I sent him a copy of the plat and welcomed any discussion he wanted to
have with me about that. So, there doesn't appear to be a downside to the time extension.
This is now becoming an in-fill site, as opposed to what it was in 2015. It's still consistent
with the Meridian Comprehensive Plan for residential development and they are anxious
to look at options and looking at maybe an assisted living facility along Locust Grove
Road. Both the Brinegars are elderly now and so I understand this is the third time
extension. I understand that you have some maybe unusual circumstances with COVID,
so -- and, then, their participation in Whitecliff. With that I would be happy to move back
and make sure I have answered Council Woman's Strader's questions. Yes, it's still
consistent with the comp plan. As Joe mentioned, it is a good buffer for Sheridan Place,
kind of an intermediary density between the existing mature subdivision that's east of our
site. With that I would be happy to answer questions.
Simison: Council, any questions?
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Penelope, nice to see you virtually tonight. Help me
understand from your perspective what's going to change between now and two years
from now to help you and your clients effectively move forward on this project? I think,
as you know, I -- time extensions are a pet peeve of mine. I think that they serve a
purpose, but oftentimes they can kind of spin out of control, and I'm just trying to come to
terms of what's going to be different two years from now that doesn't exist today.
Constantikes: Mr. Mayor, Councilman, I'm not sure I can give you a definitive answer on
that. The only thing I know for sure is that the Brinegars are -- are pretty deep in Whitecliff
right now. According to their real estate specialist, it's a 40 acre site, they have -- they
have got quite a few of the homes built and I think there is actually a senior living facility
that's going in Whitecliff. I'm not a hundred percent sure. So, as I stated in my testimony,
I think this isn't a lack of commitment, I think it's a timing issue. So, I don't know that there
would be anything any different in two years, other than they would be better positioned
to began final platting.
Cavener: Okay. Thank you, Penelope.
Constantikes: You're welcome.
Simison: Penelope, maybe piggybacking off that question --
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Constantikes: Yes, sir.
Simison: -- a little bit. You talked about that they own the property to the north and they
eventually want to incorporate that. Why would it be better not to wait and have this done
as part of that project, instead of this one remaining a standalone project at this time with
the time extension with an unknown date and obligations and possible other impacts?
Constantikes: Mr. Mayor, appreciate -- that's a great question and I think probably from
a phasing and strategic perspective that the -- they would construct Earl Glen first and it
would assist them in financing the future phase, which would be northward and, then, the
commercial development, as allowed by the city along Locust Grove. So, it's a -- it
becomes really no different than phasing a subdivision.
Simison: I guess a better question and more is -- is land use and how that northern one
develops compared to how this one is proposed to develop --without-- knowing that there
is probably not a concept plan yet for that -- for the -- for the one to the north or is there?
I think that -- that to me is -- at least from my perspective when you are talking about a
time extension, but you are also talking about the value of how the northern property will
eventually develop, does it make sense to have a plan for all 16 acres at the same time
to consider, as compared to leaving this one and, then, reconsidering that one in -- in a
different vacuum?
Constantikes: Mr. Mayor, I think I can verbally give you a conceptual plan. The idea is to
continue the single family detached dwellings northward on the interior of the site,
because it's more consistent with what's going on in Sheridan Place and, then, whatever
depth the -- the convenience store site is to the west of us, that would hopefully be
extended northward. So, it would just really be two -- two use types. You would have
single family on the interior and this low intensity neighborhood oriented commercial along
Locust Grove. I apologize, that's the best I can give you. I do understand your question
about conceptual planning. One of the reasons that the Brinegars have been successful
doing so many subdivisions -- and there is a lot of them. I searched the database -- the
Meridian clerk's database and I think I found five or six subdivisions that they have done
in the fairly recent past -- is that they tend to be a little bit more conservative and -- and
they don't -- and they -- they work hard to maintain their stability, so that when they make
commitments they can follow through on them.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: Penelope, thank you. I would like to just say at least from my perspective that
my thought process and the -- what I weigh in this kind of decision really is less on the --
on the reliability of the applicant in this situation and more on -- are we -- are we taking
away the public's ability to, again, have input this later on the property. You know, by
doing this we essentially approve for two more years and -- and, then, you know, six years
has been significant for our city and so now if we do this we -- another application is not
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submitted for that property and there is not another public hearing that's held until what
would be a CUP application, just -- and that's just for the multi-family. So, that's my only
hesitation with this. Not that I in any way want to -- want to burden you or your client as
an applicant to restart a process for a preliminary plat that you wouldn't make changes
to, for me it's just more along the lines of, you are right, there has been a lot of significant
changes in that area. I know the subdivision to the east very well and I just -- I guess
that's where my hesitant -- my -- I shouldn't say hesitancy. That's where my thought
process comes in is six years -- you know, one extension we see, but this is essentially
-- I mean this is quite long for me and it has nothing to do with your applicant's reasoning
for wanting the extension, I just want to be clear about that, it is just purely a -- are we
doing what's right for the city as a whole -- for the residents of the city as a whole. So,
that's not my decision, I'm just letting you know kind of what I'm thinking is -- as we are
sitting here discussing.
Constantikes: Mr. Mayor, may I respond? Yes. Council Woman. I do understand your
question. I -- I have had so far three neighborhood meetings in association with these
time extensions and I have never had -- I had three people show up for the first one and
I have never had anyone ever come after that. I have had a couple of phone calls, but --
and they are concerned -- the neighborhood concern was just that they weren't going to
have an incompatible use adjacent to theirs and the subdivision has been designed to be
complimentary to Sheridan Place, which is what's immediately to the east of them, so but if there is some mitigating that we can do, more follow up neighborhood meetings if you can think of something that we can do to keep this active and -- and current with
the neighbors we would be happy to do that.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Question for Joe. Joe, you know, this has been on the books for a while. When
-- as residents move in, if they wanted to find out about what's going to happen with this
property, it sounds like they are able to call the city, they can be given information, it
sounds like they have been given her phone number to call, so it's -- it's not a surprise to
people that -- if they do their due diligence that they can be aware of what the plan is; is
that correct?
Dodson: That's very--very true. For any project, but especially for one that hasn't broken
ground as well.
Hoaglun: Okay. Thank you.
Constantikes: Mr. Mayor, may I respond?
Simison: Yes.
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Constantikes: Maybe some signage would be in order. Some additional signage beyond
what's normally required, which is for hearings. Maybe a map on -- on the site that just
stays there. Says this is what's proposed for the site and if you have questions you can
call this number. I would be fine with that. I'm sure the Brinegars would be. It's a little bit
out of the box, but I do understand people move in and they don't know, they just know
there is a big empty field next to them and don't have -- a lot of people don't even know
that they need to call City Hall. It's not real common for people to think about that. So, if
there is some kind of additional signage that we can implement that would make the City
Council more comfortable, I would be happy to talk to Brinegars about doing that.
Hoaglun: Well, Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: To explore that concept further, I mean it's just basically good marketing. If you
put up a sign and say future site of XYZ subdivision, Earl Grey -- Earl Glen -- Earl Glen
Subdivision or some sort of thing like that. You know, from just a marketing standpoint
that might be a good idea, but, you know, we do have sign requirements, so I don't know
if this -- you would have to have something done to -- to make that work, even though it's
a developmental process, so -- it's a good thought, though, Penelope. Thank you.
Constantikes: Mr. Mayor, I did have one other thing I wanted to offer. Apparently they
get phone calls weekly from people throwing just outrageous amounts of money at them
trying to buy the site. I have heard that, you know, boutique grocers, complete changes
of uses, which I don't know how the city would feel about that, and they have consistently
declined any follow up in terms of selling the site. So, I know that there is a lot of demand
for it and they want to keep it a single family residential subdivision. Thank you.
Simison: Council, any further questions for the applicant?
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: If I could, one -- a question I will leave with legal and, then, a question for you,
Penelope. Your application for the extension, it notes that expired -- the existing
opportunity to get the plat -- the final plat -- it expired October 17th, but request for the
extension was after that fact, November 5th. In my world once that period expires the
right to -- to extend -- even request it is gone as well. So, I had a question about whether
we are even allowed to hear this request in light of the date the request was made after
the period of expiration. But as legal -- legal noodles that question, the question for you
is why not request a ten year extension? What would be the policy reason why a ten year
extension wouldn't be appropriate?
Simison: Mr. Nary.
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Nary: Mr. Mayor, Members of Council, I can answer the second question first. Our code
only allows a two year extension. So, that's one reason. We have -- the Council in the
past has granted extensions that were applied for after the date of the -- of the prior
extension, so the Council has approved those in the past. I don't know if Joe had any
more to add about that from the planning's perspective, but I know the Council has -- has
discussed that issue previously and has granted them outside of the expiration.
Dodson: Yes, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, there -- thank you, Mr. Nary for that.
That's also true. And, then, in addition, the applicant and I had started this before the
deadline and with the neighborhood meeting and things like that that require -- that are
required prior to the expiration it got bumped out beyond that and I think even the
November date is actually a little late from when -- I think that's when it was noticed,
compared to when we actually were -- we received it in house was very close to that
October date, I just can't remember exactly when that was. But I hear your point. I do.
If there is a precedent that we have done that before, then, that's that.
Borton: Okay. Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: I appreciate that. That's -- I would love to clean that up for an applicant's benefit.
Let's pick some date and stop receiving applications for stuff like this after the -- the time
for action expires. It just leaves us -- it's just mushy. It's not fair to an applicant. They
can ask for an extension ten months after it expires and so we open ourselves up and
make it difficult for an applicant. And so the second question -- Penelope, I wasn't trying
to be cute with it, just illustrating that -- I mean there is reasons behind that Council's
expressed these struggles, there is reasons behind deadlines and requirements to have
these in. If we limit ourselves two years, it's like a cap on the request, so five of the seven
of us didn't see this as well and there is five years of a period before COVID where, again,
this has just all sat. So, it just sort of begs the question just to continue to grant
extensions. Let's just get rid of the two year cap and start granting ten year extensions.
It's just -- it's problematic. I struggle as well under these circumstances as requested in
light of what's been discussed to grant another two year extension.
Constantikes: Mr. Mayor? Yes, Councilman, I understand the -- the nature of your
comments and they are just -- like Joe explained, we were working on the time extension
and -- so, I don't know what else to say. I'm sorry.
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: Definitely don't apologize. I understand if we -- as -- as far as the timing of it, if
we -- we have had a process that has allowed -- it's more the concern of substantive and
procedural on some of the problems of allowing us to continue to continue to continue in
light of all of the reasons the Mayor and Council have brought up today.
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Constantikes: Understood. Thank you.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: Penelope, I know that the time has passed and we are here now, but it seems
like we have chatted a little bit about what has gone on the last two years since the last
extension, but when the app -- applicant originally applied what was the original -- I mean
was the original intent to have that completed in short order and what -- I mean how did
it sort of get off course? Not -- not that you need to give the entire history, but I guess
that's -- that's -- and COVID has just been within the last year. So, maybe give us a short
summary of what transpired prior to that, so that we can get a sense of -- I agree with
Councilman Borton that, you know, that was the other thing that I had going through my
mind as I was reading this -- this information was that the majority of the Council didn't
originally approve this and a new Comprehensive Plan as well. So, can you give us a
little bit more understanding of what was going on at the time that the application was
made and the intention behind when it was supposed to be complete?
Constantikes: Mr. Mayor, Council Woman, when I was working on this in 2015 my
understanding was that they were going to move forward with it in fairly short order. I'm
not -- I don't have a lot of contact with the Brinegars, so I'm not exactly sure. I know that
-- that sometimes, just based on my work and routing final plats, which is a very difficult
project to do, sometimes things show up and they just send everybody off in a spin and it
takes a while to regroup and solve problems. Of course, that doesn't explain the number
of years that the project has been preliminary platted and I just know that they have been
involved in other projects, not Clyde, but his sister's experienced health issues that I think
I explained in my testimony, although maybe not real clearly, that because it's a limited
partnership they want to make sure that they don't start something that, then, requires a
change in ownership structure in the -- in the middle of the project. But my understanding
was from the beginning that we were going to go to final plat and other than knowing that
I can't explain to you why -- why the Brinegars didn't move forward with it more quickly. I
just don't have that information. I apologize.
Strader: Mr. Mayor, question for Joe.
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Joe, if -- if we were to deny it this evening, is there anything I'm missing? Is
there any disadvantage at that point that would stop them from, you know, hopefully
bringing this back ideally with the property to the north, so the whole thing. Is there
anything that I'm missing? Are they penalized in some way besides having to notice it
through the public hearings, etcetera?
Dodson: Council Woman Strader, I mean negatives or positives are subjective in that
sense I guess. I just want to -- the only thing I guess would be that they already have the
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zoning. So, the R-15 and R-8 portion is zoned, so they technically would not have to do
a master plan between this parcel and the RUT parcel. There wouldn't be a requirement
to that. They could just come back and reapply with this exact same plat. Obviously, it
doesn't guarantee they would get approved, but that could be the process. It's -- it would
be up to the Council. I'm hearing the concerns from Council and I understand them. I did
put that in the staff report, too. You know, this is the third one, so it's up to you guys to
determine whether or not it's in the best interest of the city. Also with that you don't have
to grant two years. Unless Mr. Nary corrects me on this, it could be a shorter time frame.
It just -- it's whatever Council wants, so -- zero. It could be six months. Nine months.
Whatever you guys would like. But that might put a fire under their butt. I'm not sure.
Strader: Thanks.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: I guess, yeah, Joe kind of got to my -- the crux of maybe my questions for Mr.
Nary is, one, can we grant a time extension that is less than two years. And, two, if we
were to grant any extension could it be conditioned that no future extensions would be
granted?
Nary: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Cavener, as Joe stated, you
can -- you can do any time period you wish. So, it doesn't have to be the full two years
that's being requested. Barring a future Council from making a decision on their own is a
little more problematic to me. I wouldn't say it's prohibited by code. It's certainly not
something I would encourage, because, again, circumstances change, situations change,
and trying to box that in -- in the UDC there really isn't anything like that. So, that's a little
bit more concerning to do. But it's not prohibited, it's just -- I'm not sure if a future council
would appreciate that when there may be some reason that is absolutely valid and I don't
know what that might be. Pandemics are one of them, so --
Simison: Council, any further questions for the applicant?
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: One additional question for Penelope. Penelope, you have heard some of the
discussion amongst Council about maybe perhaps a time extension less than two years.
It kind of gets to the question that I asked you earlier about what would change between
now and two years from now. The part that I'm struggling with is if there was action that
was going to happen in the immediate future, I think I could be supportive of an extension.
If there is not, then, I am more supportive of a denial. So, can you help give Council a
little bit of flavor, again, for if a time less than two years is supported by you and your
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clients or if you are just going to be here two years from now asking for another time
extension.
Constantikes; Mr. Mayor, Councilman, any time period that the Council sees fit to grant
is fine. We are not really in a position to argue with that. One of the things that occurred
to me as I was listening to you discuss this is that a time extension would allow the
Brinegars to sell the project and get it moving. Not that they -- I have no knowledge that
they want to do that, but one of the -- one of the benefits of a time extension would allow
the project to move forward with someone else. And, again, I have to be very clear about
that. I have no understanding that they are planning on selling it, but it does keep the plat
active in the event that they consider your concerns this evening and understand that
there isn't going to be probably another option in the future and that this might be a good
time to entertain offers for selling the plat and -- and if it's constructed the way it's
approved now, then, any future plans they would have for the 11 acres to the north would
not likely change, because they would -- it would continue to match what was going on to
the south. So, that's the only thing I can offer really in response to your question.
Whatever time frame the Council sees fit is appropriate.
Cavener: Thank you.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Just a follow up on that line of thought, Penelope. If -- if there was a denial
tonight I would see them more likely to rid themselves of that property and focus on
something to the north for their use. What are your thoughts on that? I -- because if -- if
there is a denial -- well, if we can't do it now we got to come back with everything, well,
let's cash out on this and focus on the property of the north and, then, we bisect these
two properties and have two separate in-fill developments, as opposed to one in the
future. Is that --
Constantikes: Mr. Mayor, Councilman, I don't have enough insight into my client's future
plans to be able to really answer that. With the site designed completely -- and I think
there is even a fair amount of engineering work that's been done on it, it wouldn't be
difficult for someone to pick up the parcel and move forward with what was previously
approved with whatever changes are a reflection of changes in code. I know that the
Brinegars would like to keep the subdivision active and in their own ownership, so I don't
have any insight into whether or not they would -- would sell it if it was denied tonight.
Again, I think the family as a whole is anchored to the site because of their parents living
so close by. I guess on page 30 -- 25 of the Meridian book there is a picture of Mr.
Brinegar, Senior, and there was a place called Hoppy's Corner, which was his mother's
little commercial shop of some kind or another. So, I don't know that they would sell the
site.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor, if I might follow up with a -- with a comment.
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Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Because that's -- that's the -- the difficulty and I think Councilman Cavener are
touched on it as well, that, you know, these little details can -- can matter, but at the same
time I struggle where we haven't had a -- there hasn't been a change in zoning. There
wouldn't be any changes to the plat. It allows that ability to further develop the site to the
north with this included, although we can make requirements, but it's a little harder for --
when there is two different property owners to make sure things are tied together, as
opposed to one. I'm just trying to see the benefits of denial versus an approval of a year
or whatever Council would agree, if that's the direction we go. You know, weighing what
-- what's best for a future development. We know it's going to be developed and is that
with the current developer or does it get split and, then, what do we have. So, I'm probably
more inclined to go with --with what we know than what we don't know, but--which would
lend to a time extension, but, you know, it's not hard and fast in my mind right now.
Strader: Mr. Mayor, question for --
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Thank you. Question for either Bill Nary or Joe. What is the longest, if anyone
remembers, that we have done these extensions before? And I guess I'm concerned --
are we setting a precedent by doing this for this amount of extensions in this length of
time.
Nary: Mr. Mayor, Members of Council, Council Member Strader, I couldn't tell you how
long any have ever been. I mean there certainly have been many extensions. Each one
of them, in my opinion, is its own unique animal. I mean, again, I think the Council has
asked exactly the right questions you need to. Why is it taking so long. What's the plan.
What was the intention when you started. All of those things are really relevant. So, I
don't believe it's a precedent to allow this to go forward with an extension of whether it's
two years or less. I think it's totally within your discretion. I mean I think it speaks to at
least the impacts of the neighborhood, as Council Member Perreault brought up, is they
have had neighborhood meetings, that is part of the process, so the public is aware that
this is being asked to be extended again and you don't have anybody here or wanting to
testify opposed to that. So, what would happen -- that was one of the questions asked
earlier. Because the extension is denied and the plat itself is dead in the sense of planning
of being able to move forward with it or for the developer. It's already annexed and it's
already zoned. So, those remain, whether this is tonight or not, so -- but entitled property
certainly has value and I think that's what Ms. Constantikes was talking about, that from
a development standpoint, in fact, there is already an approved plan to move forward if
the desire was to sell or at least engage someone else to get this constructed. Having
the plat able to move forward immediately is certainly better than it being starting from the
very beginning. So, there are some good and bad either way. Certainly you all have
asked the exact right questions you should and it is totally within your discretion. I don't
believe it would be precedent setting for anybody else to say they are entitled to
something of this nature as well.
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Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Well -- and, Mr. Nary, just to clarify, we have not yet asked for any public who
wish to testify, so I don't want to presume that there is nobody here in favor or opposition,
because —
Nary: You are correct.
Simison: -- we may have a couple people, so --
Nary: Thank you. Sorry. You're correct.
Simison: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Thanks, Mr. Mayor. You are answering one of my questions and, then, just a
comment for Council Member Strader. I think it's a great question that you asked and I
think where I developed this being somewhat of a pet peeve of mine is probably in my
first and, then, third year on Council. I think we granted a fourth and, then, maybe even
a fifth time extension in my third year and so we have provided time extensions much
longer in length, but to Council Member Borton's point, that was, you know, with a much
different City Council than we have today.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: If I can weigh in on that -- Council Woman Strader's question. When I was
appointed in '08 and, then, answering -- elected in '09 for a full term, so that's five years
and those years of '08 and '09, '10 were not good years economically. So, we cast
numerous votes for time extensions for a number of projects and it was for more than one
time extension for several of those projects just because of the economy. We knew they
wanted to do it and it just wasn't going to happen at that time. So, it's not unusual to have
in my book -- in fact, I thought that's the only vote we ever did was time extensions in that
time. But it -- it wasn't unusual, so -- and I know those are specific economic times, but
look at this -- each project I think it was pointed out is unique and has situations that
people are dealing with that I think we take into consideration. So, hope that helps.
Strader: Thank you.
Simison: Council, any further questions for the applicant? Okay.
Constantikes: Thank you.
Simison: This is a public hearing. Mr. Clerk, do we have anyone signed up to testify on
this item?
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Johnson: Mr. Mayor, we did not.
Simison: Okay. If there is anyone who would like to come forward at this time in the room
and provide testimony, please, do so and if you are online in the Zoom meeting and would
like to participate, please, use the raise your hand feature at the bottom to do so. Thank
you. Please state your name and address for the record, please.
Lubinsky: My name is Brian Lubinsky. I am the HOA president of the Sheridan Place --
to the adjacent property. We do have many concerns as far as the homeowners that do
reside in Sheridan Place. They have brought it up many times about the subdivision --
the Earl Glen Subdivision that's wanting to be put in. One is -- the major one is the multi-
use sites. We haven't seen from -- nobody in our neighborhood has even seen what
these tend to look like or will look like. We do have, you know, rather big concerns about
that. Second, we have also a concern about the access road that is to the north of Earl
Glen Subdivision and how it's going to tie into the Sheridan Place neighborhood to the
east. That as well has not been discussed with the HOA or anybody in the neighborhood
as far as granting access to that neighborhood. The third is we have -- we have inquired
about purchasing the property with the representative and we would move forward in
developing it much quicker than two years if -- if allowed. We have also inquired about
the property to the north as well. But as far as we have heard it is not entertaining any
offers at this point. So, back to the original one. Is there anything that can show us what
the multi-family development will look like?
Simison: We will have the applicant bring that back up when the time -- do you have any
further comments?
Lubinsky: We also have one other concern. In the far northern -- northeastern section of
this approved plot, plat, there is a -- a water pumphouse that is part of Sheridan Place.
We would like to know what the intentions are to go around that -- that area as well,
because that -- that pumphouse is in that plotted section for the subdivision.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: With -- with all due respect -- and I understand, sir, that you want some questions
answered this evening in regard to a proposed maybe quasi-project that's in the future,
but with all due respect, tonight we are not debating that. Tonight we are talking about
whether or not they are going to receive a time extension to the proposed plat. That's it.
So, for the sake of time and for the sake of sticking to the agenda, I would propose that
we stick to the conversation as to whether or not we should extend this project out another
couple years.
Simison: Thank you, Councilman Bernt. This is his time to speak, so free to ask those
questions and whether or not the applicant addresses them or the Council is interested,
they will take that into consideration.
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Lubinsky: I certainly appreciate your time and don't mean to steer you off-- off course at
all and I do understand what you want to do tonight. We just as a neighborhood have
concerns and would like to have those answered, whether it could be Penelope that can
answer these questions, we just would like to go back to the homeowners and at least tell
them something from this meeting. Thank you for your time.
Simison: Council, any further questions?
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor, before Brian sits down, if he wouldn't mind. Mr. Lubinsky. Question
-- quick question. Real quick.
Simison: Council Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Yeah. Just -- just a quick question. So, is your HOA willing to look at this
project and try to work out -- make sure you understand all the details, as opposed to just
starting -- starting new? Is that a position you guys have -- have taken any -- any which
way on that?
Lubinsky: We have discussed it and we are in favor of, you know, the development.
However, we are not in favor of the multi-family units. If it's a single family, yes. Multi-
family, no. So, we have discussed that and we have also discussed actually wanting to
purchase the property and continuing both sections of property into single family use.
Hoaglun: Okay. Great. Thank you. Appreciate that.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council, any further questions?
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: I suppose this is a question for Joe. So, the applicant -- when the multi-family
is -- when the multi-family moves forward will they need to have another public hearing?
I just saw that slide that came up that said approve CUP. Has that been approved and
-- and the design would just go before staff at this point?
Dodson: Council Woman Perreault, that is correct. Yes. The CUP was approved with
the plat. So, that's what --these extensions are for the plat and the conditional use permit
for the multi-family.
Perreault: Okay.
Dodson: I also do -- I did find some of the elevations that were with this application, if
that interests the Council.
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Simison: Council, we will wait -- I see Penelope has been gathering some information,
but I don't -- there is no one else in the room wishing to testify and no one online who has
raised their hands to testify, so with that we will ask the applicant to come back forward
to present closing remarks and any further questions or comments at that time.
Constantikes: Thank you, Mayor, Council. Penelope Constantikes. Post Office Box 405,
Boise, Idaho. 83701 . 1 obtained my neighborhood meeting list for generating labels from
the City of Meridian and my understanding is that the HOA was included in that. So, I'm
not sure where the disconnect was. I was there on Saturday morning. I try to do them
on Saturday morning when I'm able, because it enables the maximum number of people
to be able to come. So, I scheduled it for Saturday morning. I did have at the
neighborhood meeting all the illustrations of plats and elevations that we submitted with
the CUP for the multi-family. So, I did have -- I did have those materials with me. I did
want to address the question about the pump station. That pump station, I believe, is
probably owned by Nampa-Meridian Irrigation District and the plat does have a pump
station lot designated. It's 1,512 square feet. It's Lot 1 of the subdivision plat and there
are several plat notes that without my readers I can't exactly read them, but we did make
an accommodation for the pump station. We understood that Sheridan Place was running
off of that pump station, that it would be handled correctly with the development to make
sure that everyone still received their water, there was no impediment to the pump station
operating correctly. The extension of the stub -- of the -- the extension of the stub road
out of Sheridan Place to the west, that wasn't something that the applicant really had any
ability to make a decision about. That was an ACHD thing. And, obviously, a stub street
was put there intentionally with the approval Sheridan Place with the -- with the intention
of having a connection to the west. So, we were just completing what the district required
us to do, a plan to complete it as a function of the development. It's very commonplace
for that to happen. So, the multi-family was very muted. We only had it directly adjacent
to McMillan Road intentionally and keep the single family the bulk of the site and that was
so that it was consistent and blended with the neighborhood. I would be happy to visit
with the HOA at any time if they want to call me, I can coordinate a Zoom meeting, or
whatever it takes. I would be happy to share the information I have with them, if that's
germane for this discussion. But I don't know what else to tell you. We have covered a
lot of territory and I'm hopeful that we can get one more time extension and keep this plat
in play. It's a good design and -- and it I think in the end will benefit the City of Meridian.
With that, if there are no questions I will excuse myself. Thank you.
Simison: Council, any final questions for the applicant?
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Not seeing any other questions, I move that we close the public hearing for
Earl Glen Subdivision, TECC-2020-0003.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor, I will second the motion.
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Simison: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. Is there any
discussion on the motion? If not, all in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay. The
ayes have it.
MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES.
Dodson: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Yes, Joe.
Dodson: Before Council gets into their final decision, I just wanted to note that if -- the
application was -- actually, the plat was -- the extension was denied tonight there -- from
a planning perspective the idea that multi-family would not be wanted or desired in this
area is a little concerning, only because as you can see in the aerial it is a sea of single
family for a quarter mile in every direction and usually when you -- you only have
ownership opportunities, you know, that leaves out some of the lower income. So, I just
want to present that these are not three story, 35 foot tall apartment buildings, they are,
you know, two story townhome style, but they are multi-family four-plexes and one eight-
plex. So, from a planning perspective it is beneficial to maintain some of that multi-family
opportunity. But, you know, from the professional perspective that's what that is.
Simison: Thank you, Joe. Council?
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Yes, Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Maybe some discussion amongst the body before a motion is made. If you
would have told me that we would be deliberating a time extension for 45 minutes, I
probably would have wagered a Hungry Onion burger that we wouldn't. It's been good
discussion by -- by the body tonight. I think there has been some good questions raised,
particularly by our newer members of the Council. So, I appreciate the discussion. I'm
not sure how the rest of you all feel. As much as I loathe time extensions, I think it's
important that we take any denial, whether it's for a time extension or a denial of an
application, seriously and I think we have done that tonight. I would be curious to hear
how all of you feel, but I haven't heard for me a compelling reason to grant a time
extension and so I guess maybe before I made a motion I wanted to hear if there was any
thoughts or alternative considerations from the Council that we should discuss prior to a
motion being made.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Was that Strader or Perreault? I couldn't --
Perreault: Perreault.
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Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: I don't know that I have an alternative thought, except that it seems like the
applicant's situation or the reasons that are -- that are causing them to lead to the delays
haven't been resolved and that -- and I don't -- and I'm not interested in knowing their
personal situation really truly. I feel for them and I doubt they have wanted to extend this
to this -- to this point. But, you know, I -- yeah, they are just -- it doesn't sound like that
there really is a plan in place at this point to -- to move forward to move towards
completion in short order and -- however, it doesn't sound also like they are planning on
selling it anytime soon. So, we could -- very well could find ourselves -- and this is not a
reason to approve it, but we very well could find ourselves in a situation where we are
having the same discussion, you know, in the next year or less. Yeah. Well, I mean if
they -- if we grant a denial and they have a year, I suppose, or is -- is the -- do they wait
-- on the extensions do they -- are they required to wait a year for a denial, the same as
in the original applications, or can they come back with -- Mr. Nary is shaking his head
no. So, they could come back with another application fairly quickly if they decided to go
that route.
Nary: So, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Perreault, to answer your
question, yeah, they are not barred from reapplying. Obviously, there is a process to go
through of public hearing meetings and all that.
Cavener: Mr. Nary, we may have lost you.
Nary: So, to answer the question, there is no -- there is no time period they have to wait.
It would be a new application. They would have to go through a pre-app process,
neighborhood meeting, go through --through planning -- go through Planning and Zoning,
and, obviously, there is a -- there is a time delay to all of that. But the application can be
submitted after a pre-app.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: Just to finish my thought very quickly, it doesn't sound like that the applicant is
planning on selling. I would -- I would be hesitant to request them to go through that --
that process all over again to submit the exact same preliminary plat. It doesn't sound
like they are planning on making any changes to it and I'm not sure -- and I don't -- trying
to appropriately verbalize where my thoughts are on this. There -- there is a lot of
unknowns and we can't make the decision really truly on -- the point I'm making is we
can't make the decision really truly on the applicant's circumstances. It has to be based,
in my opinion, on what is best for the City of Meridian, what is best for the residents. I
think that's really, in my opinion, where we are and I will leave it at that.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
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Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: I feel that it's been too long. I feel that this amount of delay has put this in a
position where things may have changed in terms of how we look at land use decisions.
I think that the applicant is not seriously disadvantaged by a denial. They are already
zoned for this project. They already have a plat. I don't hear a plan in place to start soon
and I -- and I would highly encourage them, if they do bring it back to us, if it were to be
denied, to come back with the property to the north I think would be best, if that's possible,
so we can see the whole thing. And that's not the reasoning. I just -- personally I feel it's
been too long. I did take Councilman Hoaglun's point during the Great Recession
certainly we did this and I think the mindset then might have been different, but from
where I'm sitting, with the amount of growth that we have, how fast things are changing
and evolving, our open space standards are changing possibly, parking standards may
be changing, I personally am leaning toward a denial.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: I just wanted to chime in. I -- I just see it differently. The perspective that -- I
do think this is a case where you look at personal situations. We are not talking about a
corporate developer here, we are talking about people who have lived in Meridian for a
long time, they do developments, they take properties and -- and in this case properties
that are -- that mean something to them and try to put in place a good development that
-- and, then, they move on to the next one where they purchase property and are doing
some things. They are not buying up, you know, 600, you know, acres at a time and --
and doing major development, so --so, to me I see personal situations and circumstances
here that do come into play, because we are not talking about this major corporation and
that is entirely different and so to me COVID and family situations, you know, where it
prevents some things, I -- I'm leaning towards more of a -- if we give them a year to see
what can happen, it gives them time -- if they do want to sell they could probably do it.
You know, if Councilman Cavener said, no, two years is great, I could probably go to that,
but I'm just leaning towards giving them some time to decide what do they want to do.
Are they moving forward? How are they going to move forward? Or are they going to do
something different. And, like I said earlier, not changing -- there has not been a change
in zoning. It meets all our Comprehensive Plan requirements. Roads are there because
of ACHD and how they are laid out from the Sheridan Place development to this place.
We aren't going to be changing that. We do want to have mixed use in areas and so it
meets all the goals of our -- of our community. So, I see nothing to be gained by -- by
denying that, you know, and a great amount of benefit. So, I -- I can go with the time
extension.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
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Strader: You know, I -- I appreciate you saying that. I think a year, I could wrap my head
around that. If that -- if the Council had consensus. I think the most important thing is for
us to be on the same page about how we handle and list extensions and if how we all felt
like handling it was going to move toward a consistent place of -- if we feel like it's been
too long, people get a year. Not that that's a rule, but if we -- if I -- I can get on board with
that, if that creates consensus with the Council.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: I -- I was leaning the other direction. I believe that Council Member Hoaglun is a
great salesman. He is -- he is -- he switched me over to the other side. As soon as he
said local, I -- he got me with it. So, I agree. I don't think a year is going to be that big of
a deal. Great points, Councilman Hoaglun. I'm in favor of a year extension.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Certainly if a motion is made to extend it for a year, I won't -- I won't oppose
that. I just think it's an important reminder that this will be -- it's already been extended a
year once. It's already been extended two years once. This will be a second one year
extension for a total of four years. Every time this thing gets extended that's time that our
staff, the clerk, City Council, has to devote to this and I appreciate I think where Mr.
Hoaglun is trying to get. Frankly, that's where I was trying to get from the get go. I just
didn't hear any confidence from the applicant that they are not going to be back here a
year from now asking for another extension. So, as long as we are comfortable that that's
-- the fact is that a year from now the Council will likely hear another time request, I'm
supportive, I just -- I think we need to be prepared for what we are going to be seeing.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: Maybe whoever is making that motion can say that this is the last one.
Cavener: You can't.
Hoaglun: Well, Mr. Mayor, if I might --
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: -- speak to that. I -- I agree, Councilman Cavener, this is a -- this is granting
them that one last extension and there will be definitely three of us and I suspect even
more here a year from now that will be serving on -- on this Council and we are well aware
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of the situation and the testimony that's going on and I think the applicant can be assured
that there would be a -- probably a unanimous decision not to grant that extension if they
come back in the future.
Simison: So, with that in mind, Councilman Hoaglun, would this Council consider a ten
month time extension, so it is this Council that will definitely be the ones hearing this
conversation a year from now and not -- yeah. I'm not going to take anything for granted
with the election outcomes or people's decisions that occur. Just food for thought.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor, I'm chewing on that thought, so --
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Maybe a thought for -- for whoever may make the motion. I don't think it's
entirely appropriate that we base a decision for at least the time extension on who will or
won't be here ten months from now, a year from now, five years from now. If the
consensus is around a year, let's go for a year. If we don't think that a year is appropriate,
then, let's just move forth with a denial or a two year extension. I don't think that we need
to build a plan necessarily around this particular body and who will or won't be here a year
from now.
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: Mr. Mayor, is -- the public hearing's closed; correct?
Simison: Yes.
Borton: I'm going to make a motion that we grant a one year time extension for TECC-
2020-0003 for the reasons discussed by Council in this recent exchange.
Bernt: Second.
Simison: I have a motion and a second. Is there any discussion on the motion?
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: I know this is in the staff report, but that would require all previous conditions
of approval are included in that? Is that your understanding, Mr. Borton?
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton.
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Borton: Correct. The motion of approval for the one year extension would include the
conditions and language as set forth in the staff report of January 19th, 2021.
Bernt: Second agrees.
Simison: Second agrees. Is there any discussion on the motion? If not, Clerk will call
the roll.
Roll call: Bernt, yea; Borton, yea; Cavener, yea; Hoaglun, yea; Strader, yea; Perreault,
yea.
Simison: All ayes. Motion carries and the item is agreed to.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
2. Public Hearing for Cache Creek Subdivision (H-2020-0105) by Matt
Schultz of Schultz Development, Located on the Northwest Corner of
E. Victory Rd. and S. Locust Grove Rd.
A. Request: Annexation and Zoning of 15.18 acres of land from RUT in
Ada County to the R-4 zoning district.
B. Request: A Preliminary Plat consisting of 41 building lots and 4
common lots on 13.99 acres of land in the proposed R-4 zoning
district.
Simison: Thank you very much, everyone. Next item is a public hearing for-- I can never
get that-- Cache Creek? Cache -- Cache Creek Subdivision, H-2020-0105. We will open
this public hearing with staff comments and recognize Alan.
Tiefenbach: Can you hear me, Council?
Simison: Yes, we can, Alan. Faintly.
Tiefenbach: Let's try it again. Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, can you see my
presentation?
Simison: Yes.
Tiefenbach: Okay. Good evening, Council.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Yes, Council Woman Perreault. Forgive me, but, Alan, your presentation is not
in full view, it's --
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Tiefenbach: Yes. Okay. Thank you. Sorry. Sometimes hard to get all this coordinated.
Thank you very much, Council Person. So, this is a -- the Cache Creek Subdivision is an
annexation, zoning, and preliminary plat to allow 41 building lots and four common lots.
The site is about 14 acres of land. It's presently zoned RUT. It's located at 1560 West
Victory Road and 2955 South Locust Grove. That's the northwest corner of South Locust
Grove and East Victory Road. To the north it is zoned residential four with single family
residential. To the south is RUT within the county. To the east is R-8 and R-4, single
family residential. To the west is zoned R-4. The next slide here is to show you what the
future upcoming improvements are. There is going to be widening of Locust Grove in
2022. There is going to be widening of East Victory in 2025. You can't see it very well,
but right where it says Victory, that blue circle there, that is going to be a roundabout. You
can also see where the schools are in relation to this. The future land use map -- map
recommends this property for low density residential, which would be less than three
dwelling units per acre. Again, this includes the annexation, zoning, and planning to allow
41 building lots and four common lots. There we go. The property presently contains two
existing homes. There is a home down at the south, although it's not shown here. You
can see it on this one. That home is going away. There is an existing home that is up
here at the northeast corner. That home will be part of this development. There will be
two accesses to the property. Each access will -- the first access point -- if you can see
my cursor -- is at East Loggers Pass, which is up here. The second access is East
Sagemoor Street, which is here. Both of these will go into the Cabella Creek Subdivision,
which has already been stubbed, and they will connect to South Bailey Road, which is off
screen, but it's basically down here. And so you can see South Bailey here. And South
Bailey will, then, connect to Victory or South Locust Grove. Within this subdivision is, in
general, a loop road, as you can see here, but South Locust Grove -- as I said, both of
these are going to be expanded in the future. South Locust Grove currently has two lanes
and no curb, gutter, or sidewalk. East Victory has two lanes, with no curb -- no curb,
gutter, or sidewalk as well. Both of these are proposed to be widened and, as I said, there
will be a roundabout that's proposed in 2022. Sufficient right of way presently exists --
presently exists for both of these roads. However, the applicant will be required to
dedicate additional right of way for the roundabout at East Victory and South Locust
Grove. Because both of these roads are due to be constructed in the next five years,
instead, ACHD has requested that the applicant pay 38,425 into a road trust deposit and
this road would be used byACHD at a later date to construct sidewalks when they do this
road construction. Five foot detached sidewalks are proposed on both sides of all streets.
I think you can see it better in the color plan that is up there. There is a pedestrian
connection from the sidewalk into Common Lot 3. Common Lot 3 would be this big lot
here. There is also a pathway along a detention pond at the southwest. It includes two
amenities and approximately 16 percent open space. There is two regional pathways in
this area. The first regional pathway parallels Ten Mile Creek, which way down here you
can see it in the southwest. Hopefully you can see my cursor. That's the pathway along
Ten Mile Creek. There is another -- another pathway that runs along Eight Mile. It's off
screen here. If you can see here on Locust Grove there is a pathway that connects into
South Locust Grove here. When this went to the Planning Commission -- so, originally,
there was -- we believed that there needed to be a mid block connection and that had not
been incorporated when this went to the Planning Commission. That was one of our
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recommendations to the Planning Commission that there be a mid block connection. The
Planning Commission agreed with us. The applicant did not have an issue with that.
Since this time that's been provided. That's what you can see here. So, this mid block
connection you would be able to come up the Eight Mile Pathway, come through this mid
block connection to the central, then, you could come down the sidewalk as a way out on
this pedestrian -- so, basically, it's a shortcut. If you are coming down South Locust Grove
you can get over to Ten Mile Creek, you don't have to go all the way down to the corner
and, then, turn left. Although the minimum required square footage of the qualified
common open space is satisfied, the arterial buffer along South Locust Grove, which is
on -- kind of here, does not meet all of it, there is kind of a pinch point here. At some point
I believe -- and the applicant will probably correct me -- I think it's between 11 and 12 feet
wide at the narrowest and, then, to the north up here it's 22. And, again, the landscape
buffer is required to be 25 feet. But the applicant noted that this existing house and the
widening of South Locust Grove it's not feasible and the reason why is because there is
five accesses right now directly at South Locust Grove. All those accesses are being cut
off and two accesses that are -- that are right now allowed for this are going to be internal.
So, in order to have enough room for them to get into this driveway and around to the
house into the garage, they don't have enough room to expand that buffer. Staff didn't
have a strong opinion of this at the time of Planning Commission, because we hadn't
really heard a good argument in regard to that. One of our recommendations at the time
was that the staff -- that the applicant present the information that we needed for
alternative compliance to allow this reduction in the buffer. The Planning Commission
agree with staff on this. Since this time the applicant did give us sufficient information to
support this and the planning director did approve alternative compliance to allow this
reduced -- reduced buffer. The last thing I would mention, kind of a small point, is that
the original landscape plan was missing a piece of a lot down here, which is where the
Ten Mile Creek is there. There -- it's a major significant pathway. Staff had some
concerns with that not being shown on the plat. We also weren't sure how they were
addressing the creek. We -- there is -- there is much information in our Comprehensive
Plan and in our development code that talks about preserving waterways. We wanted to
make sure that they incorporated something into that pathway. The Planning Commission
agreed with that. They met us halfway with the applicant and they -- they made a
recommendation that the applicant landscape that with grass. I believe that the applicant
is in agreement with that. With that the applicant is in agreement and/or has made all of
the recommended changes that staff has recommended and the Planning Commission.
Staff received four different letters. Two of them are from -- or, excuse me, three of them
are from adjacent property owners. One of them is from the president of the Cabella
Creek Homeowners Association. In general the biggest issue is the access. Again, there
is two stubs that go into the Cabella Creek Subdivision right now. The homeowners don't
want to see that access coming into their subdivision. They want to see the access,
instead, come off of South Locust Grove. One recommendation was for them to line up
with East Sagemoor over here and make a new connection. ACHD is not in support of
that. It does not meet their spacing requirements. ACHD also noted that there is already
two stubs that have been there that were -- that were required that had been anticipated
for eventual traffic into that subdivision. With that I think that -- that concludes my
presentation and I will take any questions or comments.
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Simison: Thank you, Alan. Council, any questions for staff?
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Alan, appreciate the report. If I recall during the
Planning and Zoning Commission they discussed that -- I think that the stub at Loggers
Pass had --was signed, you know, a future extension planned here. Do you know -- does
that also exist at the -- at the other stub?
Tiefenbach: I can't answer that with surety, Council Person. I'm sorry.
Cavener: Okay.
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: Thank you. I -- Alan, I noticed in the file that there was some e-mail
communication with ACHD regarding the questions from the homeowners association for
Cabella Creek and the -- concerning specifically the amount of traffic that will be coming
through and whether it meets -- like if the street width and the existing streets would --
would meet demand for the -- the new residences. Was there -- was there any -- is there
any other information you can share with us in regard to that? I mean I -- I don't know if
there were any phone calls that were had with ACHD. Is -- is all the information regarding
communication that was provided back to the homeowners association with ACHD, do
we have all of that in the file or is there anything else you might want to add or enlighten
us on?
Tiefenbach: No, ma'am. Everything in regards to ACHD is in the project file. ACHD
basically said they had two issues. The first one was intersection spacing and the second
was the amount of traffic, as you said, to warrant having a new road and ACHD -- I believe
they said that they needed to have at least 2,000 trips per day in order to look at possibly
foregoing the policy of not having direct access off of South Locust Grove and in their
case the development is to provide a whole lot less than that. So, ACHD cannot justify
cutting off that access and creating a new -- new point off of South Locust Grove.
Everything that we have you have now.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor, a follow up?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: So, help me understand. Is that 2,000 trips including Cabella Creek plus
Cache Creek or is that 2,000 trips that Cache Creek would have to create?
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Tiefenbach: That would be incremental. So, that would be this particular development.
It doesn't -- it's not cumulative.
Perreault: Thank you.
Simison: Council, any further questions for staff at this time? Okay. With that we will ask
the applicant to, please -- I think they are on. I got to scan my -- there is Mr. Schultz. If
you can state your name and address for the record and be recognized for 15 minutes.
Schultz: Hello. Matt Schultz. 8421 South Ten Mile, here on behalf of Challenger
Development. Need to get this shadow out of my face a little bit. It's a little bright. Good
to be here. So, it's been last summer we last saw you. I had a double that night. I got a
double tonight. Obviously, I love R-4 in South Meridian. It's been the giant for 20 years
and R-4, when we looked at the roundabout going in next year, which is quite imminent
for an ACHD project, it's not five or ten years out, when we saw that and saw the access
is we really, you know, this needed to be R-4, it needed to be an expansion of Cabella
Creek, which was done back in --you know, I think right after we came out of the downturn
as an R-4 subdivision, low density, bigger lots. We missed a pretty obvious pathway
connection that your staff caught that we have made the revision to add in between --
actually, right before P&Z and, then, updated everything before your -- your hearing here
tonight showing that pathway connection. We did coordinate with ACHD on that
roundabout. You can see how there is some curve to our south boundary. Everything's
perfectly coordinated on there. They call them 99 percent plans right now. We did set
aside that southwest big green space for them. They had previously shown a long narrow
no man's land drainage area on our west boundary prior to them knowing the
development was coming in, which they fenced off and they grow weeds and they are
quite ugly, so we -- we said, no, this is a better spot for it. Let's grass it. Let's landscape
it to Meridian standards. We are -- we are willing to pay at whatever level is fair. But it is
their drainage that that is set aside for, with a pathway put through it for us. But -- but it
is the drainage for their -- their roundabout project, which some distance going each
direction away from there. Widening the road. They are putting in a new -- a new box
culvert there at the creek, which already does have a Ten Mile -- a ten foot pathway on
the south side, put in with Cabella Creek, and the north side is -- is Nampa-Meridian's
access road and we did not clearly show that to be a common lot in our plat in our first
submittal, so we did that on this one. It is a common lot. We can't really do anything in
it, because there is already -- there is just a little ditch bank on the one side and a little
ditch bank and an access road on the other side and -- and it's -- it's just kind of a no
man's land. But we are responsible to the HOA to take care of that and own it, although
ACHD and Nampa-Meridian will have their facilities in there. So, the kind of quirks with
this one is the existing house. They always present interesting geometric issues with
setbacks and how access is going to get changed to delete -- I believe three accesses
that they have for that house and, then, take access from the rear. The way it's separated
we needed two, one on the north to get to the -- to the garages and, then, one to their
shops and one on the south to get to the garage and do the geometry. We did have to
go down to a 12 foot minimum and, then, 22 on the north just to line up with the existing
landscape buffer to the north. Everywhere else is 25 feet. In fact, it's a little bit more than
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25 feet. Some part of our justification was that we -- from a square footage standpoint
we actually have more than a 25 foot average overall and it would be safer if we can
narrow this down. It will have nice landscaping and it won't be a detriment to the -- to the
neighborhood to have a reduction just in this one spot and DirectorArial did -- did approve
that. Other than that it's R-4. I love R-4. Bigger lots. Nobody usually gets bent out of
shape about R-4. Don't even want to think about R-8. It's going to be a comp plan
amendment, one, because it's low density on the comp plan and, two, due to the access
it just needs to be an expansion of Cabella Creek and we are going to have great
amenities, centralized. This geometry lays out to a really --just nicely flowing loop with a
nice central open space, connected -- connected pathway. What else do we need? You
know. I like it. It's good. I'm proud of it. I think it worked out well and I think it's going to
be an improvement to the access in the neighborhood to get that roundabout in and we
are perfectly coordinated with it. So, we do agree with all of staff's conditions of approval.
We have the record on approval at hand for reduced setback. There is two little things I
ask for your consideration. One, to make a specific recommendation and that's where
the grass came from that -- that Alan brought up. I -- P&Z made a specific
recommendation that ACHD actually grass and landscaped that drainage area in the
southwest corner. I don't know if you have noticed, but on some of these major arterials
they will just fence them off and they will be like sterilized dirt and that's not the look we
are going for here. You know, they are going to buy the property from us -- or however
they want to do it. They are going to get it. We just like the specific recommendation that
it has to be landscaped, because of Meridian standards. That's all. And we are willing to
participate in that. And, secondly, maybe this is a private issue, but I always find it to be
something that would be nice to get in a development agreement, is that we agreed to
make the --the homes adjacent to the Carrington Lots 21 to 24, Block 2, to be single story
and if that's in the development agreement it is there forever. So, if I'm gone everybody
remembers and so with that I ask for your approval. Thank you.
Simison: Thank you. Council, any questions?
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Just, Matt, if you could repeat which lots that you had just mentioned would be
limited to single story, please.
Schultz: Yes. Lots 21 through 24, Block 2. They are directly--they are directly southwest
of the big Carrington lot.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Perfect suggestion. It seems like it would make it work better for everybody.
Appreciate that.
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Schultz: Yeah. Thanks.
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: Just briefly this is a little different than the bump puzzle from the --
Schultz: A little bit.
Simison: Councilman Borton, we lost you if you are speaking.
Cavener: Got to charge your Pad.
Borton: All right. We are back?
Simison: We are back. We can hear you. Okay.
Borton: Sorry about that. It froze. The south -- the only question I had was just that
southwest corner and the landscaping in that ACHD retention area and correct me if I
didn't hear this right. The property will be ultimately transferred to ACHD ownership, but
the condition would be that -- that the applicant green it up and landscape it to Meridian
standards. Is that right?
Schultz: Working with ACHD. Thank you, Mayor, Councilman Borton. It's kind of an odd
deal. I have never ran into this situation where I have an ACHD drainage facility on our
properly -- on our property going at the same time. You know, usually we are really early
or really late. So, it is a -- it's a unique situation that I haven't ran into. Typically with our
drainage areas that are for our roads and we maintain them, ACHD has an easement
over them. We landscape them. We build them to their standards and we are done. This
is a little bit different situation where I believe they are going to acquire it, because it's for
the regional drainage. It's not for our subdivision specifically. I believe they are going to
own it, but there is -- I may be wrong, we could certainly own and maintain it as the HOA
and we might even prefer that. We just haven't really worked the details out of-- we have
just told them recently, hey, this -- this needs to go here, not this little narrow no man's
land on the other side. So, we are going to take this hearing tonight, move forward, and
work out the details of how that's going to be -- be taken care of, but we -- whoever takes
care of it -- we would love to take care of it. Whoever installs it, we would like it to be a
requirement that it would be --that it would be installed to the City of Meridian's landscape
standards for drainage facilities, which you have some newer specific requirements for
those and we want to participate in that. We think it would be a great demonstration of
how ACHD and developers can work together and still end up with, you know, a nice
landscaped facility, instead of a fenced off no man's land.
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
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Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: To that point maybe at the tail end we can circle back. The best way to do that if
-- I agree a hundred percent that ideally the -- the HOA would be able to -- it would be
designed to Meridian's landscape standards, greened up, and the HOA would be required
to maintain it in perpetuity going forward, granting ACHD the easement rights to utilize it.
The question might be if -- if it were to be transferred to ACHD, if there is some way to
encumber it in perpetuity so they would take it subject to that requirement. Either way, I
think you are spot on.
Schultz: Yeah. It's a unique situation. We are open to whatever -- to participate in that
cost of landscaping it up. We just don't want them to take -- hey, look, you know, zero
cost increase to us, we are just going to fence it off and go spray herbicide on it every
couple years.
Borton: Yep. Yep.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: Matt, good to see you.
Schultz: Hello.
Perreault: Hi there. So, I was wondering what -- one question and one comment.
Wondering if you had had a chance to chat with any of the residents in Cabella Creek that
had submitted public testimony. And, then, also to -- to Councilman Borton's point, I
actually live in a neighborhood where there was a drainage area that was very nicely
maintained by the HOA. ACHD, for whatever reason, came in and wanted to take
ownership -- ownership of it after -- I mean it was -- the subdivision was built. The HOA
had been maintaining it for a few years. I don't know why ACHD decided they wanted to
take ownership of it and now it's a mess and it's in an area where a lot of children go and
they have left it to be a situation where now the HOA is just trying to keep people safe,
honestly. So, hopefully, you can work that out with them.
Schultz: We will work it out.
Perreault: With the HOA. But, yes, if you would, please, answer the question regarding
any communication you might have had with the individuals who submitted written
testimony.
Schultz: Yes. Mr. Mayor and Council Woman Perreault, at the neighbor meeting the
president did show up and, actually, he was like a hundred percent supportive. Can you
join our HOA? Can we share HOAs? I was like, well, we will talk about it. You never
know, you know. But there was no discussion of the access points at that point. I think
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he got some pushback since then from some of the neighbors, especially some of them
that live right on those stubs streets that did provide testimony at the last hearing. It's one
of these stub streets that never make anybody happy to be extended that live there. It's
been a stub street for ten years, been a nice field, but the intent of even putting it there
was that it would be connected in the future with development to allow pedestrian and --
and, you know, vehicular access and even if we did put another access out to Locust
Grove Road, I have never seen ACHD cut one of these things off ever. They go through,
they are meant to disperse traffic, kind of filter it out and to your -- to your question about
traffic studies and demands, typically they look at each home generating ten trips per --
per-- per house per day. You know, delivery trucks, going to school, work, whatever. So,
in this case we would have, you know, 410 trips. I think Cabella Creek is about another
40, 45. We are about -- we are pretty equal in size. So, we are under a hundred total.
We are under a thousand. A thousand is what usually triggers the first discussions about
collector roads and no on-front housing and all that. But we have got great dispersion on
Bailey, both north and south, and, then, on the other side of Cabella Creek there -- I think
it's Mesa Way that connects north and south -- at least south to Victory. So, there is good
dispersion of traffic. There is no overload of any of the streets and that's where ACHD is
coming from. Low density. Low density. Low density combined with low density never
usually yields, you know -- you know, a collector requirement, you know, which is where
we are at, so -- so, I had not talked directly. I did get a -- I did get a letter from one of the
neighbors after P&Z expressing her displeasure with how the -- the P&Z meeting went
when we talked about how those stubs streets get extended. We will be good neighbors.
We have big lots. You know, 10,000 square foot lots abutting there. So, it's a hard -- it's
a hard discussion to have, but it is -- it's just kind of how -- how things happen, so -- that's
all.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: Matt, if you could, please, just refresh my memory. I don't remember -- I think I
read this in the staff report. Is there a shack near this property or on this property?
Schultz: Is there a what? Excuse me?
Bernt: A shack. Or a big house that needs to get removed?
Schultz: Yeah. If -- Alan, can you put up that preliminary plat again, please. The black
and white one that kind of shows an outline. Thank you. Yeah. There is a house right
on the corner down by the roundabout. You can kind of see the rectangle down there.
There is actually a little label that says existing house and outbuildings to be removed
there on the corner and, then, further west of that there is a -- I don't know if it's an old
barn -- a little barn, shed, shack thing. A corral west of that, between there and Cabella
Creek that's going to get removed and other than that the site's pretty clean. The
Carrington's house is going to stay essentially where they have it fenced off right now.
There is a fence going diagonal right there, so that's where it's going to get developed up
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to and the rest of it's pasture. So, yeah, that's all -- we are going to remove that structure
and the sheds and leave the Carrington's home.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Matt, good hire by your client. Lucky to have you.
Appreciate you being straightforward and bringing good recommendations as part of your
narrative. A couple of questions based on your testimony and dovetailing on a couple of
questions from Council. First, I assume both of those stubs are marked future roadway
extensions. There had -- this isn't any surprise for any of the residents that live over
there?
Schultz: Mayor, Councilman Cavener, I did not look specifically at those. All these stub
streets at one point had a sign that's put up that says stub street to be extended in the
future. Now, whether those get taken down, thrown away, that has happened before in
the history -- say I didn't know that was going to be extended. Well, the sign was there at
one point. So, I don't -- I can't -- I can't say for sure that I have seen the signs on both of
them. I have, but I didn't specifically look at it. But we are required to put them up. All of
our stubs have signs for this specific purpose.
Cavener: Okay. Fair enough. So, the second one is kind of a sideways question. So, I
think that your client does a good job of greening space up and really maintaining
everything during the development and the sales phase, but I get pretty significant
feedback from residents of those types of neighborhoods that feel after the sales process
is complete there isn't necessarily a -- a fund of HOA dues that remain for the ongoing
maintenance and it kind of creates a scenario where things start really great, all of the
lots and homes are sold and there is nothing available, then, we will have to rebuild up,
you know, kind of some HOA funds to maintain it and they always feel like they are
working in arrears. So, especially where we are talking about kind of a piece of ground
that could go to ACHD that's greened up to our standards, have you had any
conversations with your clients about the approach that you all can take to reduce at least
that perception from happening? Are there any suggestions for us as Council to condition
so that what I -- what I don't think is intended, but sounds like is occurring at least in some
developments throughout Meridian.
Schultz: Yeah. Thanks, Mayor, Councilman Cavener. Appreciate the feedback. I -- I will
get these approved, get them all built, and, then, I go into the next one and every once in
a while I will drive through a subdivision and I will make a phone call or send an e-mail
say, hey, there is a dry spot there, you might want to call your maintenance guy or
whatever. It's kind of the nature of the beast on a lot of these things. Sometimes it takes
them a little bit to -- the maintenance guys to figure out how to best do that particular site
and there is -- at any given time there might be a dry spot here or there or a dead tree
and, then, you make a phone call and the tree gets replaced and they fix that zone or they
replace that battery in the time clock or -- the nature of maintenance. I do appreciate it.
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I -- I will definitely pass on that there is that perception. I know they work with independent
HOA maintenance management companies that run these. They collect dues at closing,
so that they are funded and, then, if there is any shortfall -- say, for instance, it was a very
slow moving subdivision, but you had a lot of perimeter landscaping, you know, the
developer kicks in to -- to pay for that until that critical mass of number of homes has
contributed to the HOA and that's just being a developer. That's what we do sometimes.
I mean these days -- these things are selling so quickly that the HOA isn't coming to us
saying, hey, we need money, because they have gotten it through their closings and they
actually get double. They usually get a setup fee, plus the first year's dues, so they get a
little extra. So, I will definitely pass that on. I -- and I'm cognizant of it. I have reputations.
I want to -- I want to be responsible for good projects in all areas of Meridian for sure and
it's -- it's something that I -- I think -- I think it's a little bit of a misperception that somehow
the owner isn't collecting enough. I would put the blame on the HOA management
company not making sure their maintenance guys are taking care of some dry spots. I
know that happens, because they are managing, you know, thousands of lots. But it's --
Cavener: Sure.
Schultz: -- it's certainly something that -- that I'm sensitive to as well.
Cavener: And, Mr. Mayor, if I may.
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: And that's sort of-- I mean I love that we have got an R-4 on this corner. I think
it compliments the existing neighborhood fairly well. It's -- it's just one of those things that
when you hear that feedback from enough people you start to think, well, is that -- is that
a perception issue or is that a reality that's being articulated, asking us as Council to not
let future developments to come in and make those same mistakes and, frankly, I don't
-- I don't know what the answer is. I think because you are a straight shooter and an
honest broker, that if you had ideas I -- I would feel comfortable and confident that you
would share those suggestions and, frankly, I would rather hear some of those
suggestions from you and your client, than Council sit around a table and wax poetic
about what we think is best.
Schultz: Oh. And I appreciate that feedback and I know I'm going to have a pretty blunt
conversation with my client about what we are talking about right now, that, you know,
maybe we need to hire an additional, you know, management company, so they are not
spread too thin. Maybe that's what's going on. I don't know. But, you know, some of
these maintenance companies pay more attention than others and so it's an issue that is
certainly relevant and to be -- but I do believe the HOAs are adequately funded. I believe
that's a misperception.
Cavener: Okay.
Schultz: And -- and I think it's just more of a management than funding.
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Cavener: All right. Thanks, Matt. Appreciate your feedback.
Schultz: Yeah.
Nary: Mr. Mayor? Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Just for the discussion as Councilman Cavener asked the question and looking at
Google Earth from 2012, which is the last time the Google car must have drove down this
street, but on Bailey Street there are two -- two stub roads that connect to this property
and both of them are signed, at least in the photos that are on the Google Earth today.
Cavener: Thanks, Mr. Nary. I didn't want to go Google searching on my own. Appreciate
you doing that and adding that to the public record.
Simison: Council, any further questions for the applicant? Okay. Thank you very much.
This is a public hearing. Mr. Clerk, do we have anyone signed up to provide testimony
on this item?
Johnson: Mr. Mayor, no one's signed up in advance, but the Shaners are online and have
raised their hand, so I will bring them in.
Simison: Okay. And if you could state your name and address for the record and you will
be recognized for three minutes. And -- there you go. You have unmuted.
Shaner: Oh. Do you me to start again?
Simison: Yes.
Shaner: I'm sorry.
Simison: We can hear you now and we will go ahead and start. Can you state your name
and address for the record.
Shaner: Right. Erick Shaner. 1488 East Lake Creek Street, Meridian, Idaho. 83642.
We -- we live in the next subdivision over, the Salmon Rapid Subdivision, and we live --
we live to the north and we live on that access out to Locust Grove. We have lived here
just shy of about 15 years and the traffic has continually, you know, gotten worse and
worse and worse over the years, especially out onto Locust Grove. It's been a little bit
less because of COVID, but I guess the point is is that reading the report the -- Locust
Grove was supposed to be improved in 2020 and it wasn't and the roundabout was
supposed to be in 2022 and I doubt that will happen on time and the amount of congestion
and traffic out from East Lake Creek Street out of Locust Grove is a great concern. There
is a lot of children that play in the -- play in the area. Excuse me. And also we are an
older subdivision and the homes abut right on to -- the closest homes in the subdivision
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abut right on to Locust Grove and there is no buffer like there is from Bailey Way onto
Victory Road and so we had asked -- we had -- we had submitted our comments, but
none of the discussion tonight has really focused on the comments that we submitted and
that was to delay the project until those improvements on Locust Grove could take place,
so there would be a reasonable access to turn right and -- and take that roundabout and,
then, come back, instead of making that left turn. And the other issue is that also with our
other subdivision, we didn't have any open spaces slash parks and so taking this area
out is disheartening, especially when there has been no replacement by the city for us to
have parks and open spaces. But we really appreciate the changes that were made for
the original plat that were submitted to Planning and Zoning and we want those to be
accepted. It's great and thank you for listening to me.
Simison: Thank you. Council, any questions?
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Not necessarily a question and maybe more of a comment. You know, I
appreciate you stating your perspective and I think we share your frustration when these
road projects are delayed as well. Hopefully, with some new ACHD commissioners we
will start to see better funding and better momentum. I hope at least on some of these
projects. So, appreciated the comment.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: I know Miranda is not on. I guess for Mr. Shaner to respond to your concern
and -- and, frankly, I live just down the street from you, so your concern is -- is somewhat
my concern, particularly about Locust Grove. That is a project that's on a high priority of
our Transportation Commission. I think it's a high priority for the Mayor and Council. It's
a really high priority for me. So, I think there is a lot of eyes on that particular project and
an ongoing communication with ACHD to not have that project be delayed further. I
appreciate you shining a light on that. I think it's something that's top of mind for a lot of
us.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Do we have someone from ACHD on that could kind of speak to the Locust
Grove expansion and the time frame?
Simison: Yes, we do. We have Kristy Inselman on -- Mr. Clerk, I think she is in -- not
been brought in. I see the name in, but I also see it out.
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Johnson: She's in where she can unmute. If she would like to be on camera we can
move her in, but I by default make her unmuted at the beginning of every meeting, so she
can interject when requested.
Simison: Okay.
Inselman: Mayor, this is Kristy Inselman. I am on the call if you have any questions for
me. I will speak quick -- just briefly to that intersection at Locust -- sorry. Locust Grove
and Victory. Right? Sorry. Went the wrong direction on my map. Yes, that is -- that
project is in funded year, so it is currently in the plan. So, our five year work plan details
projects we anticipate completing over the next five years. The first two are directly
funded by our budget and that is in there.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Inselman: That's actually scheduled for construction in '22 to '23. So, it will start -- our
-- our fiscal years run from October to September. So, fiscal year '22 starts next year in
October.
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor, she -- she answered the question that I had, so -- thanks, Kristy.
Inselman: Uh-huh.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: And from a practical standpoint, I know that -- that the practical thing that they
are doing is finishing up the mile on Eagle, coming back over and doing the mile on Locust
Grove and when that's done going back and doing another mile on Eagle. So, there is a
conscious effort to make these road improvements and -- and keep them moving forward,
because, then, those delays can push everything. Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Maybe just a follow up for Kristy and maybe I'm just being dense and I need to
be hit over the head with it. So, just to clarify -- if you could clarify was that the timing for
both the roundabout and the Locust Grove improvement or is Locust Grove widening still
expected in '20 -- in 2021? That's what I wrote down. If you could just explain. And,
then, are you stating that ACHD has fully funded or has a budget that has fully funded
these projects, so we wouldn't expect a delay?
Inselman: Mr. Mayor, Council Woman Strader, that -- that is correct. So, we do have the
Locust Grove, Victory to Overland Road segment, to be widened to five lanes and that
was designed in 2019. We are finishing up right of way acquisition and that one is
scheduled for construction in '22 and the same would go for our -- the roundabout there
Victory and Locust Grove. So, it was designed in '19, right of way is finishing up, and it
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is construction in '22. So, yes, they are both in funded years and so I -- I would not
anticipate either one of those moving at all once we get them into a funded year.
Strader: Mr. Mayor, a follow up to the applicant.
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: So, Matt, can you outline your likely timing of when you would expect these lots
will be delivered to the market?
Schultz: Absolutely. Thank you, Mayor and Council Woman Strader. Given the time
frames right now and approvals and engineering times, we would be -- we might get it
done this year. I would say the latest we would have this done would be say May of 2022.
1 know I have been contacted by the -- developer's representative -- gas facility and, you
know, we are setting aside funds for the sidewalk. So, I know it's imminent. I have seen
both sets of plans, one being a roundabout and one being the stretch going north. I
thought the roundabout was going first and, then, the stretch going north was going to
kind of tail behind it -- you know, a year or two behind it. The way it's -- I understand it
now is they are going to go simultaneously or bam, bam. And so I think the timing -- we
are going to be building about-- maybe a little bit before they get it done, but we are going
to do all of our landscaping up to the back of sidewalk and, then, they will do the sidewalk
and it will be -- it should be coordinated pretty well. That's the intent.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Before we go into further questions, I just want to make sure there is no one
else who wishes to testify on this item. Mr. Clerk, we don't have anybody else in the
waiting room?
Johnson: Mr. Mayor, we do not.
Simison: Okay. I mean technically we are at the applicant's final comments. So, Mr.
Schultz, if you wouldn't mind making any final comments and it sounds like it will probably
be just for the Council questions after that, if there is anything else you would like to add.
Schultz: No. I think my final comments were going to be to Mr. Shaner's questions and
timing and I think the discussion with Kristy and Councilman Strader kind of clarified all
that. So, with that I will -- I will stand for anymore questions.
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: And that's okay. I think I'm good. I just wanted to make sure -- but it sounded
like the most likely outcome is a delay of less than one year. From what I could gather
between when ACHD is -- is going to complete these projects and when the applicant is
delivering them.
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Schultz: Correct.
Simison: Council, any further questions or comments for the applicant?
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: The only -- only thing I am kind of a little fuzzy on is how we want to handle the
landscaped -- grass and landscaped ACHD slash development overflow facility that
needs to be built. So, I -- I'm not sure what the recommendation -- the best
recommendation would be on something like that. So, that's -- that's kind of interesting.
I think -- I would prefer to see it maintained within a developer's hands to keep it greened
up. I'm also aware of Councilman Cavener's discussion and concerns, but as opposed
to ACHD. We have one of those at our -- our corner and for the longest time it wasn't
even fenced in, it was just basically a bomb crater and it's now fenced. It doesn't look
any better really. So, have the -- have the homeowners be able to have more say in
making sure that is greened up and appropriate for their area is kind of the direction I
would like to go. But I'm not sure how -- how we go about doing that, so --
Simison: Maybe, Mr. Nary, two questions directly as -- is ACHD subject to any of our --
any code enforcement or otherwise if they become the owners of it. I know we cannot
determine who should be the owner of it. They will decide that.
Nary: So, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, as diplomatically as I can say this -- yes,
believe they are. They don't necessarily agree with me. I do think it is important that it
does be maintained appropriately and whether or not it's maintained by the HOA-- I mean
as Mr. Schultz has stated -- I mean they can work that out. If they are willing to do it --
ACHD normally will take the heavy maintenance burden of these things for that longer
term, kind of cleaning it out, mucking out the -- these things, but the short term stuff they
-- they are fine with other people maintaining it, so they don't have to. So, they have
generally been accepting to do that. But if it's fully on them they generally don't comply
with that. So, whatever conditions and language you would like us to add to the
development agreement that the developer is agreeable to and that the HOA is willing to
at least agree to in -- in the DA, whether or not they can work that out with ACHD is, again,
an unknown.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: If I might, I know Kristy cannot, you know, speak for the commission in terms
of committing them to a course of action, but, Kristy, you heard the discussion. Are you
-- are you able to help reinforce or send the message of what our intent is with this
development and ACHD's cooperation with development to keep that as a green space
and completely understanding from our perspective that ACHD needs this facility and we
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understand the need, but we just want to make sure it looks nice and if you can convey
to them that we would appreciate their cooperation with Matt and his team in making sure
that that is taken care of.
Inselman: Mr. Mayor, absolutely. I'm more than happy to convey that to the project team
with regards to that facility and, typically, I think as your staff alluded to, we are never
adverse to the developer improving that area, as long as it does not impact the integrity
of the actual drainage system itself and if they are willing to maintain that typically we are
fine with that. We have license agreements that we enter into with a multitude of
developers on this type of situation. So, I will be happy to convey that to the group. I
can't speak for them, but I can say typically we would -- we would allow that if they agree
to maintain it.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor and Kristy, thank you.
Simison: Council, any further questions for the applicant? Comments for the general
good of the order? Or motions?
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: I will make a -- try and make a comment before I make -- before I freeze up.
Matt, I think it's a -- it's a great project in this space. Appreciate the R-4. I think it's
designed well. I think you have hit the mark on all of the issues. I think the idea of limiting
the height on those four lots seems to be appropriate in the circumstances as you have
suggested and I would -- I would suggest that the DA include a provision that the applicant
is going to green up and landscape that southwest portion that will be utilized by ACHD,
that it's an HOA obligation to maintain it in perpetuity as part of the DA. If things down
the road change and ACHD is going to take it over somehow, you might have a DA
modification to accommodate that. You might not ever need to and ACHD is a good
partner and it sounds like they very well may be willing to accommodate the HOA
maintaining it, just so long as it doesn't interfere with their -- with their use. So, everyone
seems to be on the same page. But for the purpose of the DA, would include the provision
that I think the staff report has, is that the HOA would -- would maintain that landscaped
green area going forward. So, with those comments I think you have done a great job
and it's a great project.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: If it's the appropriate time I would move that we close the public hearing.
Simison: This would be the appropriate time. Is there a second?
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Borton: Second.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. Any discussion on
the motion? If not, all in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay. The ayes have it.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Along those lines I would move, after considering all staff, applicant, and public
testimony, to approve file number H-2020-0105 as presented in the staff report for the
hearing date of January 19th, 2021, with the following modifications: That the southwest
corner landscaping be landscaped to Meridian standard for drainage facilities and that
that landscaping become an HOA obligation. And, in addition, that the home Lots 21 to
24, Block 2, be limited to single story.
Borton: Second.
Simison: I have a motion and a second. Is there any discussion on the motion? If not,
Clerk will call the roll.
Roll call: Bernt, yea; Borton, yea; Cavener, yea; Hoaglun, yea; Strader, yea; Perreault,
yea.
Simison: All ayes. Motion carries and the item is agreed to.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Simison: Council, we will take a ten minute recess and reconvene at 8:15.
(Recess: 8:04 p.m. to 8:15 p.m.)
3. Public Hearing for Daphne Square Subdivision (H-2020-0101) by Matt
Schultz of Schultz Development, Located at 4700 W. McMillan Rd.
A. Request: Annexation and Zoning of 4.97 acres of land with an R-15
zoning district.
B. Request: A Preliminary Plat consisting of 30 building lots and 3
common lots on 4.97 acres of land in the proposed R-15 zoning
district.
Simison: All right, Council, I will go ahead and call us back in from recess. 8:15. And I
will open Item 3, a public hearing for Daphne Square Subdivision, H-2020-0101, with staff
comments and, Alan, it's back to you.
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Tiefenbach: Did my screen work this time, Council people?
Cavener: Looks good, Alan.
Tiefenbach: All right. Thank you. Okay. This is an annexation, zoning, and preliminary
plat to allow 30 building lots and three common lots. The property is just slightly less than
five acres, presently zoned RUT in unincorporated Ada county, located 47 West -- 4700
West McMillan at the northeast corner of North Black Cat and West McMillan. North is
zoned R-8 was single family residential. That's the Brody Square Subdivision that was
just recently approved. To the south is zoned RUT and east as well, RUT, both within
unincorporated Ada county. To the west is R-15, single family residential. That's the Jump
Creek Subdivision. The Comprehensive Plan recommends medium density residential
for this site. Here are the future improvements. There will be some eventual road
construction along Black Cat and McMillan, although this particular-- with this one we are
going to be looking at this roundabout. That's probably the most recent improvements
that you are going to see for this property. The property presently contains an existing
manufactured home that's over at the northwest -- it's almost all the way over at Black
Cat. Black Cat. And this will be removed. This proposal includes mostly duplexes, in
addition to several detached single family residences. The detached single family
residences are mostly over at the northeast corner. Staff does believe this is a housing
type that will lead to a more diversity in housing, as the majority of housing in this area is
single family residential. There are two points of access proposed. The first would be a
northern stub street, which would go to the Brody Square Subdivision as that is being
developed. The second is a stub street to the undeveloped property to the east, which is
presently in unincorporated Ada county. There is only one street proposed with this
internal development and that will be the cul-de-sac that you see. Black Cat and West
McMillan are presently two lanes that do not contain sidewalk in this area. The applicant
is required to dedicate right of way for future widening and to construct five foot sidewalks
along both of these frontages. This is the same width as is provided by the subdivisions
to the north and the west and as I mentioned there is a future roundabout that's planned
at this intersection. This is the colored landscape plan. I think sometimes this says a lot
more than having the black and white ones, especially in a public hearing. The applicant
-- and I will come back to that. The applicant has provided a parking exhibit, which
indicates 30 additional on-street parking spaces. So, each townhouse in particular has
two in the garage, two in the parking -- or, excuse me, two in the driveway and, then, there
are 30 more that will be here as well. This property is less than five acres in size. The
reason why I say that is that per the UDC it does not have to meet the common open
space and amenity requirements. However, since this is an annexation and the applicant
proposes a density that's at the high end of the medium destiny range, proposes six
dwelling units per acre, staff originally informed the applicant in order for us to support the
density that high this development should contain quality open space and amenities. The
earlier version that we have that went to the Planning Commission -- so, the primary open
space directly on the intersection of Black Cat and McMillan, right on that intersection.
Staff did not believe that that was usable open space. At the Planning Commission staff
recommended that the lot, which was originally shown at the north as a detention pond
be expanded, so that that could be more usable open space. At the December 17th, 2020
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-- 2020, Planning Commission there was -- it was discussed at length and the following
changes were made. The first change -- and I will show that in this next slide here -- was
that the developer should work with the Brody Square representative. This was sort of
as a suggestion of the -- of the developer. The developer pointed out that Brody Square
and Daphne Square are sort of the same development. They kind of build off of each
other, even though they are not -- they are under different ownership, they are both
basically working together. So, the developer proposed that they would work with the
Brody Square representative to locate a playground amenity in the central parking Lot 9
and that's what you see here right in the middle. That's actually Brody Square and that
they work out an arrangement between these two subdivisions to allow shared open
space and amenities for the residents of both subdivisions. If this -- if this arrangement
can't happen, then, the applicant offered and the Planning Commission recommended
that Lot 1, Block 2, be converted into common open space and that's what you see down
at the bottom, that little red dot. So, they either get the amenities in the open space
shared with the common -- the lot in Brody Square or they add an additional lot as the
common open space. The commissioners also recommended detached sidewalks
should be converted to attached sidewalks. In the earlier versions -- and I will go back
up to what's in color here. You will see that the sidewalk runs directly along the main cul-
de-sac. The original version of this -- these sidewalks had -- they were detached and
they had an eight foot landscaping between the street and the sidewalk and the result of
that was that the setbacks were only 12 -- 12 feet in the rear. The Planning Commission
had some concerns about whether that was compatible with the properties to the north
and whether they can expand the setbacks in a creative way to do that was to take those
detached sidewalks and make them attached, so that you could push the houses further
forward and away from the existing -- away from the houses in Brody Square and provide
wider setbacks. So, that was the second recommendation. Also there was a
recommendation that the Commission wanted to have the lots in the northern side -- and
I will go back to here. Let's see if I can do a better version. Well, you can see it here. If
you will look at the northern lots, it says 25, 35, 30. So, all along those northern lots the
Commissioners had concerns with those lot lines not lining up with the lots to the south
there in the Brody square Subdivision. They recommended that this be revised, so that
those somehow align better with the lots to the north. That particular recommendation
the applicant is not-- not in favor of, does not agree with. So, the applicant is in agreement
with everything else, except for, again, the recommendation to align the lots with the lots
to the north. Other than that, the staff will answer questions or comments if you have any
and that was my presentation.
Simison: Thank you, Alan. Council, any questions for staff? Okay. With that invite the
applicant to, please -- there he is. And, Matt, if you would state your name and address
for the record and you will be recognized for 15 minutes.
Schultz: Thank you, Mayor and Council Members. Matt Schultz. 8421 South Ten Mile.
Here on behalf of Berkeley Communities. I helped them with the project. We are working
on Calistoga on -- on -- on Amity between Locust Grove right now and this is where he
would like to kind of go to next. Berkeley is -- is a home builder as a -- as a developer
and it's -- it's good -- good to know that what he says is going to be done here -- that he
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has provided some -- some nice elevations for this product -- square feet even, though it
is attached to a zero lot line. Alan, if you could put up that overall Brody -- on it, please.
What always -- start looking at these four and a half acre sites, it really is -- and, you know,
it was important at some point to do detail, but I think we maybe overcompensate and
zoom in way too far and every single one of these were --were typically --the big picture.
As we -- Brody Square here, which got approved I think last summer. My owner is talking
to them about -- joining the HOA -- I know there was discussions and I think it would be
the greater good for everybody to look at this as --
Simison: Matt?
Schultz: Yeah.
Simison: You are kind of going in and out.
Schultz: Do I sound choppy?
Simison: Yeah. I don't know if you want to turn off your video while you are speaking and
see if that helps. At least skip the audio --
Schultz: Yeah, I can do that. Yeah. Let me see. Let me get -- yeah. So, I will start over.
Can you hear me better?
Simison: So far.
Schultz: Is it still choppy?
Simison: Maybe a little bit. Why don't you try going and see how it works.
Schultz: Yeah. I apologize. My-- my internet connection is fluctuating right now. So, we
thought it was important to look at the big picture and show how this five acre site, which
is really a three and a half acre site once you take away the ACHD right of way -- an
opportunity to do -- and with the R-8 previously -- phase of Brody Square -- road to get
built or waiting for their sewer to get built. Waiting for their access, because our access
is going to -- by its proximity to that roundabout. Let's work out a big picture that improves
the neighbor -- neighborhood roughly for everybody and we have done this before. We
go out and work out a deal -- a cost share -- let's improve both pieces -- where option one
is shown, but if we can't for some reason, we can put it where option two is shown and --
and do it ourselves. So, I think it's a win-win, either option we choose. We -- option one.
Like I said, all these units that we have -- they are attached over there on the east side.
The rest are attached 1,800 to 2,100 square feet. The front yard maintenance will be
included on these, notwithstanding being the -- of ACHD's future cul-de-sac, we still need
to get the -- the R-15 zone. This -- this roundabout is not going to get built next year or
the following year, it's in their ten year plan. So, we use their-- their standard template to
plot in where that might be. Can you switch,Alan, to the--the color zoom on our property,
please. Not that one. And you can see south of the -- the north -- you had it. There you
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go. Just south of the North Black Cat Road level you can see the size of those cars. It's
not me. I swear. I don't know if you can go back to that color rendering. There you go.
You can see the size of the car -- you can see how big of a bite that is. It's a huge take
out of this property. It's like 30 percent of this property. We usually don't point out right-
of-way percentages, because they are usually incidental. But, really, what we are talking
about is a three and a half acre project. Notwithstanding that, we are still proposing the
required landscaping and amenities -- waivers of -- of your requirement -- northeast
corner to the -- we had a -- we had a duplex and a single family. So, we converted that
to be detached that match the streetscape coming from Brody. We did -- we are 29 lots
and we have -- with exception of lining up lot lines on the north side -- when you look at
the buildings here, which I think is important -- P&Z did not have the -- we did not have
the buildings showing how they line up with our buildings and so there was some
confusion about how buildings were going to line up and this and that and I'm confident
that if it would have had this, that that condition about lining up lot lines would not have
come, because there is actually eight houses to our seven buildings slash 14 units that
match up quite well and it's -- it's for a transition -- being on the corner of Black Cat and
McMillan I think R-15 is certainly appropriate and it's -- transition from the R-8 to -- I think
it's pretty subtle and I'm pleased when we did have those plotted out that that was an
important exercise to go through to see how it does look and to see how all these houses
work and the effort that we try to take on these just to be able to intelligently speak about
all these issues and it's our mistake not to have -- we didn't have those done for P&Z.
The real -- little nice project that Berkeley Homes wants -- wants to do and we pick -- a
niche not for everybody, but for those that want -- sized home, but want their front yard
maintained and don't mind having a -- will have -- of each side. It's a duplex where, you
know, two units on one lot. It's -- it's -- lots. Zero lot line. So, with that I will stand for any
questions.
Simison: Thank you, Mr. Schultz. Council, any questions for the applicant?
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: Is Alan controlling the slides? Could we go to the slides and have the open
space. It looked to me like the slide -- yeah. Go back one if you would. So, there is --
there is the green space there on the north side and, then, on the next slide it's not there.
Schultz: If I can comment on --
Perreault: Yes.
Schultz: -- Council Woman Perreault. I did update that exhibit. Alan didn't swap it out. I
did update it to look like what you see there on the --exhibit. If park--we redid the parking
on that and we -- for the updated layout. There is 29 spaces. It looks exactly like what
you have there. It just has a little red -- they need to go. But there are 29 on the -- which
is part of the record -- submitting just to get -- this presentation.
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Simison: Mr. Schultz, the early part of that -- if you wouldn't mind maybe calling in just on
a regular landline. I don't know how much more conversation there will be, but just so we
can make sure we capture any questions or additional comments necessary. You can
stay with us this way for any additional comments for now, but just don't want to miss any
of your comments.
Schultz: What's the number? What's a good number?
Johnson: Mr. Mayor. Mr. Schultz, if you have the agenda in front of you it's there.
Otherwise I can read it off to you.
Schultz: Yeah. That would be great.
Johnson: Okay. It's area code 669-900-6833 and you will --
Schultz: Okay.
Johnson: --then you will need to enter the webinar ID and I will put that up on my screen.
Schultz: Okay.
Simison: Council, any additional questions at this time?
Hoaglun: Matt, I did have a question.
Schultz: What's that ID?
Simison: Okay. One second.
Schultz: There we go.
Simison: Okay. We see your end. Can you hear us without any problem, Matt? You will
need to unmute your phone. Just star --
Johnson: I believe it's star nine to unmute.
Simison: Start nine on your phone to unmute. Still have you muted.
Johnson: I see a hand raised, but I can't do anything but allow you to talk, which I have
already done. So, try star nine. I'm sorry. That probably is what you pressed. Try star
five.
Schultz: Does that work?
Simison: Yep. We got you. Okay. Councilman Hoaglun, your question.
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Hoaglun: Yeah. Matt. And if you can stand up and spin around three times and take two
steps to the left that should work just right. But anyway. Thanks for -- thanks for doing
that and your patience with us here. We have been doing this for a while, but sometimes
it's still just -- we got to -- we got to be flexible. Matt, if -- if, Alan, you could put up that
option one, option two screen. One of those. I was just curious for the traffic when that
comes up -- Riva something and that street continues to the east, does that -- where it
says -- actually says option two, that street continues back to the east, is there an exit
point to McMillan Road at some point, do you recall, or --
Schultz: Yeah. Mayor and Councilman Hoaglun, that is a future stub street that will be
connected to McMillan some day when the parcel develops.
Hoaglun: So, it is a future stub street -- with a sign and all that stuff I know. And so --
Schultz: It would be.
Hoaglun: So, the main option for now will be going out -- I don't know if that was Brody
Street or what they called that --
Schultz: Brody.
Hoaglun: -- but going out to Black Cat. I was just curious -- I noticed the two driveways
for those two lots, one being the potential park option, option two, were on that street,
which would be the more heavily traveled street. I was just curious as to why those
weren't flipped to go facing the other way and, then, the -- the option two park, play lot,
whatever, being put on the outside there. Just --just curious. Just because of traffic and
trying to back out when there is a lot more traffic, so -- if you wouldn't mind commenting
on that. I cannot hear you, Matt. You got to hop back this way.
Schultz: Can you hear me now?
Hoaglun: Yes.
Schultz: We initially had those lots backing --or facing onto the cul-de-sac, but that leaves
backyards up against the adjacent lots. So, staff had us split those. So, everything's on
that street.
Hoaglun: Okay. Mr. Mayor. Matt. Yeah. I don't want to redesign the subdivision. I was
just curious about that. You know, I can understand staff's perspective. At the same time
I was thinking about driver safety and you have got this many houses using that street,
you know, it's just a --just an option I was -- I was wondering about. So, thank you.
Schultz: Yeah.
Simison: Council, any additional questions for the applicant? Okay. Well, this is a public
hearing. We have nobody here in the room and I don't think we have anybody online who
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could even offer testimony if they tried. So, I guess I will turn this back over to the
applicant for any final comments.
Inselman: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Yes, Kristy.
Inselman: Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt. I just wanted to speak to -- I apologize. I can't
remember which Council Member asked with regards to access. Daphne Street does
continue to the east and connects to Joy, which does connect to McMillan today. So, if
this were connected there would be another option for people to exit this development. I
hope that helps.
Hoaglun: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Kristy. Appreciate that.
Simison: Okay. With that, Matt, any final comments?
Schultz: I'm getting some feedback, so I'm going to hold it to a minimum.
Simison: Excellent. All right. Council, we will turn this over to you for any -- with that
information any additional questions, comments, or motions.
Hoaglun: Well, Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Thoughts and comments. I -- I can see -- I'm glad we had that slide with the
color and showing how the alignment works and I can understand Planning and Zoning,
you know, wanting lot lines to be aligned, but when they aren't the same -- quite the same
sizes, but to me it didn't look out of place to have those the way the alignment was for
that -- their -- their third recommendation on that -- that the developer was saying they
would rather not, because I -- I don't know how you would do that without changing the
size of the lots and having duplexes, but that was my only thought that -- not quite sure
how you make that work.
Simison: The other option would be to have the next phase align their lot lines if it's really
that important. Council, any motions?
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: I move we close the public hearing for Daphne Square Subdivision, H-2020-
0101.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor, I will second the motion.
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Perreault: Mr. Mayor, second the motion.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. Is there any
discussion on the motion? If not, all in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay. The
ayes have it. The public hearing is closed.
MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: I don't have any comments. Appreciate the presentation by Matt. I think
Councilman Hoaglun touched on kind of the piece that I have wrestled with this week
about the lot lines. I think what we have got presented here makes sense. So, unless
there is -- there is any deliberation or -- amongst the body, I'm happy to make a motion.
Which is, Mr. Mayor, I move we approve No. 3, Daphne Square Subdivision, H-2020-
0101, include all staff and applicant testimony.
Strader: Mr. Mayor, second the motion.
Simison: I have a motion and a second. Is there any discussion on the motion? If not,
Clerk will call the roll.
Roll call: Bernt, yea; Borton, yea; Cavener, yea; Hoaglun, yea; Strader, yea; Perreault,
yea.
Simison: All ayes. Motion carries and the item is agreed to.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Simison: Thank you, Mr. Schultz, for helping us through the technical difficulties and best
to you.
Schultz: Thanks a bunch.
Simison: Council, anything under future meeting topics?
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: It has been brought to my attention that we have a birthday in the house. True
story. I'm not making things up. So, at this time I wanted to lend a special birthday to our
Clerk Chris Johnson and say happy birthday to you and we as a Council want to let you
know how much we appreciate everything you do for us. I know this evening you
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absolutely requested and would not take the day off, because you wanted to be here
tonight. Is that true?
Johnson: Absolutely. Where else would I want to be --
Bernt: Birthday party.
Johnson: -- but with Council.
Perreault: I can think of a lot of places.
Bernt: That's a great answer. Well, just know that we appreciate you to death. You --
you are the glue that holds these meetings together. From the past year COVID has been
interesting and we have had challenges in how we have meetings and -- and you have
done a great job with your team and we couldn't do what we do without you, Chris. So,
with that said I have a little present for you. A little mini size cake -- a little birthday cake
for Chris. So, here you go, buddy.
Johnson: Thank you so much. I was told today it's not my birthday, it's the anniversary
of the day I was born.
Bernt: Oh. Okay.
Johnson: But birthday is fine. Thank you all.
Bernt: Very welcome. Thank you.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor, I have to ask our Fire Department liaison and Deputy Chief Joe
Bongiorno, is -- is it true you -- you -- you prohibited us to use a full size cake with the
exact number of candles, because it would set the sprinklers off? I was just -- that's what
I heard. I don't know if it's true, but --
Bernt: Not a day over 20. Huh, Chris.
Bongiorno: It might have set the sprinkler system off.
Hoaglun: Yeah. Happy birthday, Chris. We really appreciate everything you do for us.
Bongiorno: Yes. Thank you. Have a great day from the Fire Department, too.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Yes, Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Maybe I'm mistaken, but I thought Council Member -- Council President Bernt
said that you and he and Council Member Hoaglun were going to serenade Chris with a
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happy birthday and I didn't want to let that opportunity pass without giving you the
opportunity.
Bernt: I agree with that. I don't -- I think that we should include Mr. Nary and Dean, you
know, Lieutenant Leslie, you know. I think everyone here in Council Chambers should
absolutely step up and sing a little rendition of Happy Birthday to you.
Simison: Councilman Bernt, that was my intention as soon as we adjourn the meeting,
because I don't think the people that aren't here should have the privilege of our --
Bernt: If they want to -- if they want to join they absolutely can. One. Two. Three.
(Happy Birthday sung.)
Cavener: That will get our viewership up for sure.
Perreault: I am -- I am new to this group, but I have to say those were lovely singing
voices.
Simison: With that do I have a motion?
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: I move that we adjourn the meeting.
Hoaglun: Second the motion.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to adjourn. All those in favor signify by saying
aye. Opposed nay. The ayes have it. We are adjourned.
MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 8:45 P.M.
(AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
2 / 1 / 2021
MAYOR ROBERT E. SIMISON DATE APPROVED
ATTEST:
CHRIS JOHNSON - CITY CLERK
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