HomeMy WebLinkAboutJanuary 13, 1998 P&Z Minutes
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- Mer;dian Planning & 20& Commission
January 13, 1998
Page 9
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Thurgood: Yes we did receive those, and we didn't have any concerns. What was
address was relative to the usage of water and sewer and increased fees associated
with that and we expect that.
Johnson: Anything further? Thank you Keith. Is anyone else here for this application in
the audience that would like to address the Commission? Any comments from staff? I
will close the public hearing at this time. Item 5 would require findings of fact and
conclusions of law to be prepared.
Smith: Mr. Chairman, I would like to make a motion to instruct Council to prepare
findings of fact and conclusions of law on this item.
Borup: Second
Johnson: Motion and a second to have the City Attorney prepare findings of fact and
conclusions of law, all those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
ITEM #6: PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A
DAY CARE CENTER BY JODI FIFE - LOT 33, BLOCK 4 OF BEDFORD PLACE
SUBDIVISION NO.2:
Johnson: At this time I will open the public hearing and ask if the applicant or the
applicant's representative address the Commission at this time.
Dean L. Fife, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Fife: There have been a couple of small changes with the plans th~t were handed in.
They reversed the basic house plan, just did a mirror image on the other side and the
purpose was for better, and then reposition on the lot was to give better room for the
play area.
Johnson: Is this the first time it has been submitted to the City, the change, right now?
Fife: Yes
Johnson: In addition to that do you want to address City comments or tell us briefly what
you plan to do?
Fife: We plan to have a day care for 13 or more children. I have read the City
comments, I have no particular questions. Is there something you would like to ask
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Mer¡~ian Planning & Zo& Commission
January 13, 1998
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Borup: Well first a comment the layout is not reversed in the one that I have in my
packet, it has shifted over as Commissioner Smith pointed out. .
Fife: Alright, we asked them to get the plans in and evidently they did that.
Johnson: When you say "they" who are you talking about?
Fife: The builder.
Smith: I don't know that any other plans were submitted but the house isn't mirrored
over it is just shifted over on the lot.
Fife: Well the original plans that I got were the other way, they mirrored them, they must
have submitted those. -I am sorry for that. '
Borup: The packet submitted was pretty complete and I think I could not read a lot of the
neighbors signatures and if that is inaccurate we will be hearing about that in a little.
Probably the only question I had was more of which really doesn't have any effect on
the application more of a personal question. That was closing down the center during
the holidays, have you tried that approach before, does that work? I am just curious
more than anything. It is saying that during three weeks during the year you are going to
close down and people are going to have find another place for child care.
Fife: That is a normal procedure in child care, they advertise those out and have those
out ahead of time for their comment. That was the only question I had.
Jennifer Bell, 3004 Regan, Boise, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Bell: What was the question you had?
Borup: The question probably wasn't pertinent to the application I was just curious on
closing down three weeks during the year and it was stated that is standard in the
industry.
Bell: I have a day care in my home right now and I don't close for the holidays except for
like Christmas day and Thanksgiving day. So the whole rest of the vacation I am open
because most people work (inaudible) does that answer your question?
Borup: Well no, the application stated that it is going to close down for three weeks
during the year. We probably spent enough time on that don't you think Mr. Chairman?
Johnson: We do understand that you read the application Mr. Borup. Do you have
anything else to add, any other questions Mr. Smith?
! Mer'idian Planning & Zc8g Commission
January 13, 1998
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Smith: Yes, the application states 13 or more children, the numbers scare me right off
the bat being familiar with that neighborhood and the size of the lots and homes. Can
you maybe elaborate on that a little.
Fife: One license can have up to 12 and my wife and daughter you just met Mrs. Bell
will be working it together. So there will be somewhere between 13 and 24 maximum.
Smith: 13 and 24 where are you going to put them all?
Fife: The house is designed to do that and the square footage of the day care area. The
house meets the requirements for 35 square feet per child for a maximum of 24. Do you
have a plan there. The area, how can I best describe that to you, do you see the area
of the garage, behind that is the kitchen and living room, the family room and what is off
in there which would normally be 2 bedroom, there is going to be no wall going to be
built in there. So you will have that room plus the family, plus the kitchen and dining
room area which will be used for arts and crafts and that total area meets the State
square footage for up to 24 children. I think I put that in the application how many
square feet that was.
Smith: What are the ages of the children you are going to be caring for?
Fife: I would have to ask Ms. Bell that.
Smith: And she would probably answer my next question that has to do with how many
staff people you will have.
Fife: The staff people right now are two, Jodi Fife and Jennifer Bell.
Smith: And where is staff going to park, because the driveway you have described that
is where the parents will park to pick the kids up. There is room it looks like if it is 45
feet wide you have room for four cars there.
Fife: Staff will park in the garage it is oversized three car garage almost 900 square feet.
What was the question on ages?
Smith: What are the ages of the children you are going to be caring for?
Bell: Zero to twelve is the usual ages of the children in the day care. We haven't
decided on the number in each age group yet we will kind of do that as we go along.
Smith: There is going to be a clear barrier between your living space in the house and
the day care?
Fife: So the children can't go from the day care area into the house, yes there will be
gates provided so that the day care area will be gated so they can't go through.
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January 13, 1998
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Smith: Thank you, those are all of my questions at the moment.
Johnson: Thank you, is there anyone from the public that is here for this application and
would like to come forward?
Mark Lloyd, 2685 ArroVlNVOod Way, Meridian, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Lloyd: Mr. Chairman I am here to go on record concerning this day care that I stand
before you and give my testimony that I am completely and totally against this for a
number of reasons, some of them being some of the questions that were brought up
already in addition to the devaluing of residences by putting in a business as well as a
noise factor. I did not get a chance to sign any petition, however my home looks over
the back part of this property. I did receive a certified letter in the mail notifying me of
this hearing, this is what brings to this meeting tonight.
Johnson: Have you had any contact with the applicant at all, they knocked on your door
and asked you about your feelings?
Lloyd: No sir
Johnson: Have you talked to any of your neighbors about the application?
Lloyd: Yes I have sir.
Johnson: What has been the general response?
Lloyd: I think there was some confusion as to what the original plans were. I think many
people thought it was just going to be someone living there and watching a few children
in their home and not realizing that it was a full blown business. There are some other
people here tonight that have also realized that this is going to be a business venture
and I think the common consensus of everybody I have talked to is that they are against
that.
Johnson: I appreciate your comments, your property is adjacent right?
Lloyd: It is not adjacent it is a street from, one street behind.
Borup: What lot are you on, we do have a plat.
Lloyd: It is the corner of Arrowwood and Moose Street.
Johnson: Thank you very much, is there anyone else that would like to come forward?
Tina Bruce, 2769 N. Arro\NWOod Way, Meridian, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Meridian Planning & zAg Commission
January 13, 1998
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Bruce: My property is adjacent to this business going in. Our fence line is kitty corner
so the corner of our fence we can look right into the back yard of this new business.
According to the plans that I received in the mail via certified letter I did not see any
living space in this house. I was approached by Mrs. Fife and her daughter a few
months ago and they were telling me that they were going to be moving into this home
and they wondered if I had any objections to her having a day care. I said no not at all
because I myself have a day care where I have three small children that I watch and I
was not aware that this was going to be a full blown business where she was going to
have anywhere from 12 to 24 children. I made the mistake of signing her petition
because I thought that it was going to be a home day care and I was very disappointed
to learn that she was not 100% truthful with me and letting me know that it was going to
be a center and not a home, Do your plans show that it is going to be a living quarters,
they are going to be living in it, because mine do not? Are they going to be living there?
Borup: Our plan just shows the lower floor, it doesn't show the upper floor. It dues state
2400 square feet with lower 915 for the day care is how it is stated.
Bruce: The plans that were attached just strictly, I just see a day care center, I did not
see a two story building. I do also want to, I don't if the neighbors that are directly c
behind me are here in the audience tonight but they have two very large dogs and since
ground has been broken and since the construction workers have been building this
residence those dogs have barked pretty much all day long. So if you can imagine what
they are going to do with 20 kids outside in the back yard. My windows are adjacent to
this yard and in the Springtime if my windows are open and my children are sleeping I
don't want to necessarily want to have a lot of loud noise in the yard next door to me.
Johnson: Anything else? Any questions?
Smith: Yes, it looks like from what you described you are in lot 1, block 7?
Bruce: We are in the home that is facing Arrowwood in between the two homes that
face outward, Arrowwood and Hawk.
Smith: The home that faces Wakely and the home that faces Hawk.
Bruce The home right directly next to us faces Wakely and we are the house behind it.
Smith: When the applicant approached you some months back with a petition did she
have a specific number of children that she had identified or you had discussed. She
just said that they were going to be building a home and she wondered if I had any
objections to her watching some children in that home and I at the time was just
beginning my own day care and I tolrj her that and I said No I think what would be fine
and I signed the petition. Now I wished I wouldn't have.
Meridian Planning & zag Commission
January 13, 1998
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Johnson: I think that is your name there if you want to come forward and look at that.
Because the top of this petition specifically states 13 children or more. Does that look
like the form you signed.
Bruce: I did not read the top of that form, I was involved in discussing it with her and I
was excited about my own business and was excited about her I guess so I did not read
the top, so that was my mistake.
Johnson: Any other questions? Anyone else that would like to come forward at this
time?
John Alverson, 520 East Hawk, Meridian, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Alverson: I am the neighbor that lives right behind with the two big dogs. Our biggest
concern is the safety of the kids between the back of our fence and where the house is
going to be. I have not seen the plans but I would say somewhere between 15 and 20
foot in between the house and we feel that there is not enough room there for the kids
to play safe. If they play football, baseball or whatever they are going to be hitting the
ball over there and it is going to be coming over the neighbors fence and everything. .
The other thing is my wife works night at Micron, she sleeps during the day. With the
kids outside all of the time the noise, my dog is going to be barking. I am totally against
the whole idea of it. The value of our property going down, we were never approached
by the people that are building the house to sign a petition or anything or else we would
never have signed it. I think it is just a bad area to put a day care. The lot is awful small,
I just don't feel like there is enough room to be safe with the kids.
Johnson: Thank you any questions?
Smith: I have one and I should have asked the other two that testified, Are you opposed
to the day care or are you opposed to the number of kids that they want -to put in the
day care?
Alverson: I don't have a problem with the day care, I think the amount of kids that they
are going to be putting in there and the age group of the kids. I have been there four
years and that is the reason I bought the house out there. I like the area, with the
understanding that area was not going to be ran as a business type area, it would be
strictly residential type area. Then we come to find out they want to put a business in
there. But the size of the day care is what really got us bothered, how many kids are
going to be outside and making a bunch of noise when my wife is trying to sleep.
Smith: Is there a number of kids you feel like you could support in a day care like this?
Alverson: It just depends on the age. If you get babies, 3 and 4 year o!ds that are going
to stay in the house where there is not a lot of noise, I don't have a problem with how
many they put in there. But when they start getting the bigger kids in there and stuff
Meridian Planning & Zag Commission
January 13, 1998
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and outside playing, they have to go outside and play. My dogs are going to be barking
all of the time, I am going to get complaints from the neighbors. I am not comfortable
with it.
Smith: Thank you, you are in lot 3, the second house off of Arrowwood?
Alverson: Off of Hawk
Smith: (Inaudible)
Johnson: Is there anyone else that would like to testify on this application? Any
comments from staff? Any further discussion among the Commissioners?
Smith: I did have something regarding the little plat (End of Tape) I think that you are
going to get a lot of traffic that is going to be coming off Meridian Road onto Woodbury
onto Arrowwood. Just the way the population base is right now I don't think you are
going to be getting the majority or all of your traffic flow off of Ustick. I personally that is
too may kids to go into a neighborhood day care like this.
Borup: I would agree with the traffic flow, people are going to come whatever is easiest
for them. I think we all realize that.
Johnson: Any closing remarks by the applicant?
Fife: The value of the property being devalued I have a little problem with that issue
because the size of this home the construction and the quality of construction and the
architecture of the home definitely won't be on the low end of the scale in that area. So I
don't think that there is going to be a problem with devaluing the area. I seriously doubt
the age limit, there will be very many children that will be over 7 . years old in that
because the nature of day cares don't have that many in them. That is normally what
they take up to. But I would be more apt to think it is going to be more of the younger
age children. The area of the noise will be making that much noise. The thing with the
dog I don't think is our issue on that. Was there other issues, the traffic flow. We expect
to be able to draw from the subdivision itself several or a large percentage of the day
care kids from the subdivision so there won't be necessarily increased traffic to that
degree that all of them coming in from the outside are. We expect that area will have a
lot of day care from that area. Is there something else you would like to ask me?
Johnson: Any questions? Is there anyone else before I close the public hearing?
Jodi Fife, 324 W. State, Eagle, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Fife: I wanted to apologize to, I am sorry I don't remember her name, Tina, I wanted to
apologize to her publicly because my daughter and I had no intention of misleading
anyone at all. I thought that I mentioned to you that we were going to have about 13
Meridian Planning & zag Commission
January 13, 1998
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children. I meant to mention that I thought that I had and it was on my form so I didn't
purposely mean to mislead anyone. Earlier when my husband stated that we could do
up to 24 children, we have been working on licensing with the State and those are the
numbers that we are licenSed to do with but we don't have any plans to do more than
13. Possibly we won't do that many. In her day care now she has four children and it is
highly possibly that we might end up doing only 8 or 10 children but 13 is the number
that we kind of have in our mind. I don't think that we will have any children much over
the age over 3 or 4 or 5 because once they begin kindergarten they don't come to day
care that much or if they do it is on a part time where they would go to kindergarten in
the morning and come to the day care in the afternoon or vice versa. Sometimes you
get a few little children that come after school for a short period like maybe two hours
until their parents come. I would say that 80 or 90% of our children will under the age of
kindergarten age. So the one gentlemen's concern was playing, the types of games
that older children play football and baseball and that kind of thing really isn't going to
be an issue because our day care is more going to be toddlers, those are the kind of
children that we enjoy and that we want to work with. Is there anything else that I didn't
respond to that you can think of.
(Inaudible)
Fife: She wanted to respond to the issue of the noise level.
Johnson: She being?
Fife: Jennifer Bell, and we were going to do a tall wooden fence rather than a chain link
or something to help with the noise. Also it is not our intention to give the children free
reign to go out into the yard and play. But they will always be supervised there will
always be one of us on playground duty with them at all times. This is a more structured
kind of a play situation. Even though there is noise with the children. it doesn't have to
be the loud screaming and obnoxious fighting. It is a more structured kind of a play. Are
there any other questions that anyone would like to ask me?
Johnson: Any questions?
Borup: Mr. Chairman, it sounds like you are saying that you anticipate most of it most of
it being pre-school children.
Fife: Absolutely
Borup: And that would probably be the number of 13 or under.
Fife: Thirteen
Borup: Anything over that would probably just be the drop ins after school.
"
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January 13, 1998
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Fife: Exactly and I don't even anticipate having as many as 13 but we wanted to make
our facility large enough, our home large enough and we wanted to be licensed for that
number trying to cover all bases. Actually she and I prefer to do something smaller, a lot
more like what you were dèscribing. It is my home and we are going to be living there all
of the time and we are just doing it in our home more as a home day care. More like
she was describing
Johnson:VVhois"she"?
Fife: Tina, she watches three children, we thought with two of us we could do eight
maybe ten something like that. It really is going to be more of a home care not so much
of a business as some of you are fearing that we are going to come in and do a huge
commercial business is not what we have intentioned. My daughter is a young married
person, she has a baby, she wants to stay home with her baby.
Johnson: You are making a real good case to apply for an application with less children.
That is what you are doing at this point because your application states up to 24.
Fife: Our home is large enough for that.
Johnson: If we proceed on that basis then you can do 24 if it is approved. The
consideration here seems to be focusing in on the number of children and you might be
well off to reapply for less children. That is just a suggestion but right now you seem to
be making a case yourself holding it to 13 or under.
Fife: We would like to submit it at the number of 13 so we don't limit our selves too
much like 13 or more like it was previously submitted.
Johnson: That was just a suggestion you might consider that.
Fife: Would we have the opportunity to re-submit if it doesn't pass tonight.
Johnson: If it is denied you always have the opportunity to appeal.
Fife: To resubmit it at a lower number, so I think we would like to submit it at 13 or more.
Are there any other questions or comments?
Smith: I think the gentleman who lives in the house behind yours statement about the
types of games that children would be playing was a response to the testimony that was
given as far as the age of the children that you were going to care which in my mind that
was one of the two key issues here is the number of children and the ages of the
children. You are saying one thing and Jennifer Bell is saying another thing. So we are
getting two different. .
Meridian Planning & zo. Commission
January 13, 1998
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Fife: I understand your question, I think when she responded before she was referring
to the licensing. We are licensed to take up to age 12, that is just the way that Idaho
license states. But we would not be watching children of that age because they are in
school.'
Johnson: Well they are not in school in the summertime.
Fife: We personally don't want to watch children of that age, that is not the type of
facility we want to do. We are going to do pre-schoolers and litter children. And I don't
think it said in our application that we were going to do that age.
Smith: No you testified to that.
Fife: Okay, but I think she was just stating the limitations of the license. Anything else?
Johnson: No, thank you. Anyone else? I will close the public hearing at this time. This
is a request for a conditional use permit, it would require findings of fact and conclusions
of law to be prepared.
Borup: Mr. Chairman, I would move we instruct the City Attorney to prepare findings of
fact and conclusions of law on this application.
Smith: Second
Johnson: Motion and a second to have the City Attorney prepare findings of fact and
conclusions of law, all those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
Johnson: Those findings of fact and conclusions of law will be at our next regularly
scheduled meeting on February 10th at which time anyone interested can have a copy
of those.
ITEM #7: PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A
MODULAR BUILDING AS A TEMPORARY OFFICE BY MERIDIAN POLICE
DEPARTMENT - SE CORNER OF IDAHO AVENUE AND E. 2ND STREET:
Johnson: I will now open the public hearing, if the applicant would be sworn in please.
Lieutenant Bill Musser, 201 E. Idaho Avenue, Meridian, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Musser: Basically the only presentation I have for gentlemen today on this. is just to let
you know the primary concern for what we are looking at here with this modular unit is
dealing number one with accessibility and the utilization of the services that we already
have at the department where we have. moved off site with the investigative division,