HomeMy WebLinkAbout2020-12-22 Regular Meeting Minutes Item#4.
Meridian City Council December 22, 2020.
A Meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 6:04 p.m., Tuesday,
December 22, 2020, by Mayor Robert Simison.
Members Present: Robert Simison, Luke Cavener, Treg Bernt, Brad Hoaglun and Liz
Strader.
Members Absent: Joe Borton and Jessica Perreault.
Also present: Chris Johnson, Bill Nary, Bill Parsons, Sonya Allen, Joe Dodson, Alan
Tiefenbach, Jeff Lavey, Joe Bongiorno and Dean Willis.
ROLL-CALL ATTENDANCE
Liz Strader Joe Borton
_X_ Brad Hoaglun _X_Treg Bernt
Jessica Perreault _X Luke Cavener
_X_ Mayor Robert E. Simison
Simison: Council, we will call this meeting to order. For the record it is December 22nd,
2020, at 6:04 p.m. We will begin tonight's regular City Council meeting with roll call
attendance.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
Simison: Next item is the Pledge of Allegiance. If you would all, please, rise and join us
in the pledge.
(Pledge of Allegiance recited.)
ADOPTION OF AGENDA
Simison: We are getting better at that all the time. Next up is the adoption of the agenda.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: Merry Christmas, by the way.
Simison: Merry Christmas to you.
Bernt: I move that we adopt the agenda as published.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
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Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Second the motion, Mr. Mayor.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to adopt the agenda as published. All those in
favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay. The ayes have it and the -- the agenda is
adopted.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. TWO ABSENT.
PUBLIC FORUM — Future Meeting Topics
Simison: Next item is our public forum. We do have someone who has signed up on this
item and so I will turn this over to Mr. Ryan Head.
Johnson: That's correct, Mr. Mayor.
Simison: Mr. Head, you are recognized for three minutes. You have unmuted. If you
want to --
Head: Hello. Sorry. It -- it kicked me out and, then, I was just -- I didn't hear the
introduction, so -- Mr. Mayor and Council Members, I'm Ryan Head. I am the planning
manager at ACHD. A new planning manager there, replacing Justin Lucas, who decided
he had bigger and better things to do. Now he's my boss again. But that's okay. I just
wanted -- I had the pleasure of serving as liaison to the city in the past and just -- I know
our Mayor -- the Mayor and Council President met with our director this week and our
directorjust asked me to come on and introduce myself. I also wanted to introduce -- you
have probably met Kristy Inselman, who will be serving as the official liaison from ACHD
to the City of Meridian. She has a lot of expertise from a number of different areas and
will serve you well. But I just wanted to come on and introduce myself and let you know
that we are here to serve you.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Thank you, Ryan. Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: I know that we are not supposed to ask questions, but I'm confused about your
role. So, Kristy is the liaison and what are you?
Head: I am the planning manager at ACHD. So, Kristy works for me. I oversee our
liaison program --
Bernt: Got it.
Head: -- as well as all of our plans, so --
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Inselman: I'm a senior transportation planner with ACHD and I also work on the five year
work plan, so I can -- I can help in this role during the public hearing process and I would
also be your contact for that program as well.
Bernt: Awesome.
Simison: Thank you very much. Appreciate the introduction, faces to names, and look
forward to hearing your voices at a minimum on projects real soon, so --
Head: Perfect. Thank you.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: So, one -- I know -- I know this is sort of a -- not typical to make an announcement
during the public forum by a Council Member, but I just wanted to take a quick second
and wish a dedicated citizen of our -- of our city Christine Borton a happy 80th birthday
today, so -- I doubt she is listening right now, because they are having a huge party as
we speak. Hopefully she goes back to the minutes and is able to watch, but, Christine --
Mrs. -- Mrs. Borton, Merry-- Merry Christmas to you. Happy Birthday. 80th birthday. And
thank you for your family -- for Council Member Borton and Big Jim and Little Jim, so
Merry Christmas and happy birthday.
Simison: Thank you, Councilman Bernt. And by huge bash we mean socially acceptable
and appropriate size, using appropriate safety measures to slow the spread of COVID in
our community.
Bernt: I didn't -- I didn't mean that.
Simison: That's --
Bernt: Maybe I did.
Simison: Okay.
Bernt: Whatever.
PROCLAMATIONS [Action Item]
1. Rocky Mountain High School Football: 2020 5A State Champions
Simison: Next item is a proclamation honoring the Rocky Mountain High School Football
2020 5A state champions. We are going to do this down at the podium and ask Coach
Chris Culig and his two members of the team to come up and join me, please. Just want
to say thank you for your accommodations and in helping us still take time to honor the
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achievements of our youth. We know this -- this year has been especially challenging for
many people with the disruptions in the school and education system, as well as
disruptions on and off the field with practices and games at all levels. So, the fact that we
were able to successfully get through a full sports season this fall and have a continuing
championship football team here in the City of Meridian is quite an honor. So, with that
we are going to go ahead and do a proclamation to honor the Rocky Mountain team this
year and, then, we will ask the coach to make some comments. But whereas being a
Rocky Mountain football player is more than tackles, yardage, kickoffs and touchdowns
and achieving the state title, it is training to build leadership, character, confidence,
teamwork and resilience, all traits needed to succeed on the field, in the classroom, and
in the real world and whereas the Rocky Mountain football team never backed down from
familiar opponents and knocked off defending state champion Rigby to win it's second
state title in three seasons and third in six years and whereas for the 2019-2020 season
the Grizzly football team overcame many hurdles, but their hard work paid off as they took
the 5-A state championship and whereas the capturing of the state title builds school spirit
and allows these student athletes to walk the halls of Rocky Mountain with a little extra
swagger and whereas the leadership, training, and discipline of the head coach and
assistants to help team members focus their talents and passion to become a winning
team, with each player making valuable contributions to their victory. Therefore, I, Mayor
Robert E. Simison, here proclaim December 22nd, 2020, as Rocky Mountain High School
football state champions day in the City of Meridian and call upon the community to join
me in congratulating the Grizzlies on their remarkable athletic achievement and for
representing Meridian so proudly in the state tournament, dated this 22nd day of
December 2020. We also -- there is two proclamations here. There is also a second one
which includes all the names of the players and the coaches and that one will be included
in the record. So, if any of them ever want to come and find their name on the -- at least
it's recognized here. I don't know where else you can get it outside of the yearbook. On
the trophy. They can also find it here if they ever really need to do that from that
standpoint. So, with that I just want to say thank you and, coach, we would love to have
any comments you would have.
Culig: Well, first of all, thank you very much. It was really a special season. You know,
it takes a lot of people -- it takes great players like we have here -- Ty Tanner, Jordan
Erickson. It takes our whole group of administrators and teachers and parents -- in order
to have a successful program and win a state championship you basically need to have
all those pieces and, obviously, having the support of the city and recognizing all the hard
work, especially with a year like we had, is pretty special. So, thanks and we appreciate
it.
ACTION ITEMS
2. Public Hearing Continued from November 24, 2020 for Horse Meadows
Subdivision (H-2020-0060) by Riley Planning Services, Located at 710
N. Black Cat Rd.
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A. Request: Rezone of 4.71 acres of land from the R-4 zoning district
(Medium Low Density Residential) to the R-8 zoning district
(Medium-Density Residential); and,
B. Request: Preliminary Plat consisting of 26 single-family residential
lots and 5 common lots on 4.71 acres of land in the proposed R-8
zoning district.
Simison: Next item on the agenda under Action Items is a public hearing continued from
November 24th, 2020, for Horse Meadows Subdivision, H-2020-0060. We will continue
this public hearing and turn this over to Mr. Dodson for any comments.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: Before we start I -- I was absent the evening of November 24th. I was out of town.
But I want it to be mentioned on the public record that I did go over the notes and I did
watch the video, so I'm up to snuff of what happened that evening, so -- thank you.
Simison: Thank you.
Dodson: Thank you, Mr. Mayor and Councilman Bernt. I was going to ask that, if the
Council Members that were not here were up to it or not and whether or not I should go
over all of my notes again or just what happened afterwards.
Bernt: I think we are good.
Dodson: Okay. In that case -- so, this was continued from the November 24th hearing in
order to work with ACHD on the proposed access. This was -- the plat shown to the
Planning and Zoning Commission, which is the same -- which is slightly different than the
one that was shown at the previous Council meeting. This was -- as you can see in the
southern boundary there are a few differences along the bottom. Other than that, the
applicant revised the plat for the eighth time and we spoke to ACHD regarding moving
the access from here along -- about a hundred feet from Black Cat all the way to here, as
far east as they could go, while still maintaining a buildable lot along the eastern boundary.
The applicant sent this a couple weeks ago. ACHD actually amended their requirements
-- their district policies to allow this revised plat and move the access further east in line
with some of the concerns that Council presented. So, really, that's the only change. It's
basically a mirror image. So, all of the other requirements --or I should say recommended
DA provisions that I had laid out last time and are shown in the outline still are applicable.
It just is a mirror image. I did revise the lot numbers and so that if you need to make those
as part of your motion, that they are included in that. Other than that I will stand for
questions.
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Simison: Thank you, Joe. Council, any questions for staff? I'm seeing headshake.
Would the applicant like to make any comments regarding this item?
Constantikes: Mayor and Council Members, Penelope Constantikes. Post Office Box
405, Boise, Idaho. 83701 . Thank you for seeing us again and I just have a few comments.
I was very pleased to see that ACHD was willing to modify that staff report. So, that was
a good event to have happen. There was some unexpected benefits of changing the plat
that way. One of the items that P&Z felt was important was the number of lots along Black
Cat Road. As a result of us flipping the plat, we now have even fewer lots along Black
Cat Road than we did previously. So, that was an unexpected benefit and we have the
same lot count. Buildable lots actually went up slightly. Open space increased slightly.
Let's see. I did some research into -- I'm going to take that back. Excuse me. So, the
easement modification is fully in -- in route now. All the neighbors have received copies
and are under consideration for that. So, I would be happy to answer any questions you
have about the revised plat. I know there was the road realignment and, then, there were
-- I think there were a few other items that maybe some of the Council Members would
want to bring up.
Simison: Council, any questions. Not seeing any questions.
Constantikes: Very good. Thank you.
Simison: This is a public hearing. Mr. Clerk, do we have anyone signed up to provide
testimony on this item?
Johnson: Mr. Mayor, we did not.
Simison: Okay. Is there anybody in the audience who would like to provide testimony or
anybody online who would like to provide testimony please -- you can do that online by
using the raise your hand feature at the bottom of the Zoom platform. Not seeing anybody
wishing to come forward or raise their hand online, are there any last comments from the
applicant? I see no -- Council, I will turn this over to you for any additional questions,
comments, or motions.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: I move that we -- we close the public hearing.
Cavener: Second the motion.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. Is there any
discussion on the motion?. If not, all in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay. The
ayes have it.
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MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. TWO ABSENT.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: I move that we approve Item No. 2 on tonight's agenda, H-2020-0060.
Strader: Second.
Simison: I have a motion and a second. Is there any discussion on the motion?
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I had some concerns about this the last time around.
got to applaud the applicant and staff. ACHD. I know we got a new liaison. Working to
make some changes on the road. I appreciate that. My concerns are really with -- I really
feel like they were trying to jam too many units into too small of a footprint. These are
tightly packed lots. It's not something I'm supportive of at the time.
Simison: Thank you.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor, I have a question for staff.
Simison: Go ahead, Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Yeah. I just wanted to find out -- do we need to -- it looks like we should include
the language regarding the DA provision 1-E be modified to bring all those easement
holders into this DA and to relinquish the rights, et cetera, et cetera. That language that
was included in that staff report. Is that right, Joe?
Dodson: Councilman Hoaglun, yes. Thank you for bringing that up. I was going to say
that the motion should include -- under number five on the outline B, and, then, the --
striking condition 2-C and, then, including a new condition below. Those three changes.
If you want to have them incorporated.
Simison: I guess I would ask the motion maker if that is something he would like or not?
Hoaglun: And Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Yeah. I can just speak to those for the maker of the motion benefit. You know,
we wanted to include these easement holders into this to make sure everybody's tied
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together to move this forward. We do need to strike that other approval 2-C, because it
had some language to that and we are going to add the new language and we do want
to have -- this was discussed at the other meeting -- that five foot wide micro path along
the lot -- south side of Lot 20 to connect the sidewalk, so everything comes together in a
way that works. So, nothing -- nothing too crazy here, but just kind of the -- the workman
stuff that needs to be done.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: I would like to remove my motion and have someone else make it, please.
Simison: Second agree?
Strader: Yes.
Simison: Okay. Councilman Hoaglun, could we turn to you for the full motion?
Hoaglun: Yes, Mr. Mayor. I move that we approve file number H-2020-0060 as presented
in the staff report for the hearing date of December 22nd, 2020, and that also that the
plan also includes these modifications, that DA provision number 1-E be modified to read
as follows: A final plat application shall not be submitted until the applicant receives
approval and provides documentation from all easement holders and the parcel numbers
are in the -- in the document and in the staff report and to relinquish their rights to the
existing access easement once the public road connection to Pine Avenue is constructed.
Also that we strike condition of approval 2-C, since with the modified DA provision of 1-E
above that takes care of that and that we also include a new condition of approval as
follows: That they -- they construct a five foot wide micro path along the south side of Lot
20, Block 2, that connects to the sidewalk along the west side of North Traquair-- however
we pronounce that street and to Black Cat Road. So, that's my motion, Mr. Mayor.
Simison: Do I have a second?
Strader: Mr. Mayor, I will second the motion.
Simison: I have a motion and a second. Is there any discussion on that rather lengthy
motion that was very clear and concise and we appreciate it.
Strader: Mr. Mayor, one quick comment.
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: My apologies. I -- I didn't realize those were outside of the staff report, but I did
want to comment that I think this isn't a big improvement on the -- on the situation. Yeah.
I know we have been through now -- this is the eighth version. Appreciate the applicant's
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efforts and patients working through the process. Also appreciate the concerns about the
number of units going in. I really hope that this does end up being at a lower price point
to help serve housing affordability, but I think in the future we may need to look at this
area holistically, because we have a lot going on and so we do take those -- and at least
definitely and my fellow Council I think also takes these traffic concerns to heart. And
thank you to ACHD for listening and making changes.
Simison: Thank you. Council, any further questions or comments? Ask the clerk to call
the roll.
Roll call: Bernt, yea; Borton, absent; Cavener, nay; Hoaglun, yea; Strader, yea; Perreault,
absent.
Simison: Three ayes and one no. Motion passes and the item is agreed to. Thank you,
very much, everyone, for their work on that and getting a much better option.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE NAY. TWO ABSENT.
3. Public Hearing for Wadsworth Meridian Subdivision (H-2020-0104) by
Wadsworth Development, Located at 3085 E. Ustick Rd.
A. Request: Preliminary Plat consisting of five (5) commercial building
lots in the C-G zoning district for ownership purposes.
Simison: Next item is Item 3, a public hearing for Wadsworth Meridian Subdivision, H-
2020-0104. 1 will open this public hearing with staff comments and turn it over to Joe.
Dodson: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Council. As noted this is for Wadsworth Meridian
Subdivision, H-2020-0104. It is for a commercial preliminary plat. The site currently
consists of 3.29 acres of land, currently zoned C-G, located at 3085 East Ustick, which is
the southwest corner of Ustick and Eagle Road. It has C-G zoning in all directions as
noted in the central map here, including commercial uses, except directly to its west,
which is undeveloped. West and south. But there is an approved indoor rec facility, Villa
Sport there. In 2019 there was a DA modification to remove this site, as well the Villa
Sport site from an existing DA and enter into a new one. Also in 2019 -- I believe it was
my first CZC -- was approved on this site for a parking lot and the relevant site
improvements, including the landscaping. Then in this year we approved a CZC and
design review for a new urgent care facility on one of the lots in this proposed subdivision.
In Lot 4 specifically. The future land use designation on the site is mixed use regional,
which wants us to look at well beyond the boundaries of just the site for proposed uses.
The subject site as noted is on the very hard corner of Eagle and Ustick. The southwest
corner. The surrounding areas provide a plethora of commercial uses that are used at a
regional level. Again, to the west is the -- proposed to be a high end indoor gym, Villa
Sport, and to the south is existing residential and some community serving commercial.
Additionally, some vacant lots. As lots within this subdivision develop over time staff
believes they will likely be a higher benefit to the users of the future Villa Sport and
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residents to the southwest of this site. Staff is of the opinion that there is less need for
these five relatively small commercial lots to serve a regional base than those sites to the
north and east, the bigger commercial subdivisions. In addition, this project, in
conjunction with the approved uses to the west, should satisfy the Comprehensive Plan
and mixed use policies. The submitted preliminary plat proposes five commercial building
lots that vary in size from .39 acres to 1.02 acres. The C-G zoning district does not have
a minimum lot size requirement. All landscape buffers are previously approved with the
existing CZC as noted. When future buildings are proposed on each building lot, staff will
analyze each building for compliance with other dimensional standards of the C-G zoning
district, including their proposed use. Access for this development will be via a shared
driveway constructed with the Villa Sport improvements along Ustick, limited to a right-in,
right-out access. This applicant will be required to construct this shared driveway if this
development is constructed before the Villa Sport. That is in the existing development
agreement. There are no public streets as part of this commercial development and there
are, therefore, no public stub streets proposed. Instead there are private drive aisles as
our standard for commercial developments. The applicant has an existing cross-access
agreement with the adjacent commercial properties, but will be required to maintain the
cross-access agreement across the proposed lots, so internal to the site, that are already
existing in the CC&Rs. Off-street parking is required to be provided in accord with the
standards listed in the UDC for nonresidential uses at the ratio of one for 500 square feet.
If any restaurants are proposed, the parking ratio is one per 250. With the existing and
approved CZC, 109 parking spaces were approved, but did not show any parking directly
adjacent to the northern -- I apologize. The northern building lots along Ustick. The
revised site plan provided by the applicant showed some changes to the parking lot that
differ from the currently approved site plan and that CZC. One of these changes includes
three additional trash enclosures, for a total of four, but now none are proposed within the
center of the parking area. The new locations of the trash enclosures should help
minimize any blind corners while traversing the site. In addition, the applicant is now
showing a reconfiguration of some of the parking spaces and additional parking adjacent
to the northern building lots. These changes show a net positive gain of 16 additional
parking spaces. Again, as each pad site is developed the required number of spaces will
be checked throughout the site and the applicant will be required to comply with code
requirements as each building lot develops. As noted above, the parking for the whole
site will be available for each building per the CC&Rs, which are already recorded.
Because the overall parking plan has changed since the original CZC, the applicant will
need to obtain approval of a new CZC outlining those changes. Basically just clean up
the record. And they will have to do that prior to obtaining anymore building permits. The
Planning and Zoning Commission recommended approval of this preliminary plat with
very little, if at all, any discussion. Staff recommends approval as well and after that I will
follow -- I'm here for questions.
Simison: Thank you, Joe. Council, any questions for staff?
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
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Cavener: Joe, just a quick question. You touched on this. I appreciated the narrative
also in the staff report -- about the -- the change in the parking lot plan with the trash
enclosures. Is that something that was initiated by the applicant or something suggested
by staff?
Dodson: Councilman Cavener, that was initiated by staff to have them -- came up on our
project review meeting and just -- some of the concerns with having two or three right in
the central area and people trying to drive around that -- because they are always covered
up with CMU walls and once it gets busy it's just -- it can be dangerous. So, we wanted
to try to space them out and the applicant was willing to do that for multiple reasons, most
of all being that if they are closer to the proposed buildings that helps the applicant find
tenants, too. So, it was a win-win.
Cavener: Nice job. Thank you.
Dodson: You're welcome.
Simison: Council, any additional questions? Seeing none, I will turn this over to the
applicant and recognize Tamara Thompson. If you could state your name and address
for the record, please.
Thompson: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Tamara Thompson. I'm with The Land Group at 462
East Shore Drive in Eagle and I'm hoping you guys can all hear me okay. Great. Thank
you. If you would like, I can share my screen. I have just a couple slides. Joe did a great
job walking you through the project and just a couple things -- just to clarify a few other
things for you. Maybe just to give a little bit more context. All right. The vicinity map
should be up on the screen and, again, we are on the southwest corner of Eagle and
Ustick and I just wanted to give you just a little -- a little context just to show you how the
preliminary plat fits in with the corner. Here is kind of an overlay, if you will, of -- of the
corner and how the lots lay out there and, then, I have done one with colors. Sometimes
it's hard on those black and whites to see exactly where the lot lines are. So, that will
show you the five commercial lots. They do share parking, so there would be shared
parking and a shared access, and that access is shared also with the sports facility next
door. So, right now there is two access points onto Eagle Road. I'm sorry. Onto Ustick
to the north. Both of those will be closed and we are having one combined shared access
point and, then, eventually that will connect down to provide access to Eagle Road. So,
just to give you that context there. And that we --we have read the staff report. We agree
with staff's analysis and the recommended conditions of approval and we respectfully
request your approval tonight. Thank you very much.
Simison: Thank you. Council, any questions for the applicant?
Simison: Thank you. Mr. Clerk, do we have anyone signed up to testify on this item?
Johnson: Mr. Mayor, besides the applicant we had one additional. Brad Watson. And
brought him in to be able to speak.
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Simison: Okay. If there is anybody else that would like to testify on the item that's online,
please, indicate so by raising -- using the raise your hand feature at the bottom of the
Zoom and if there is anyone here after this person -- Mr. Watson, you are recognized for
three minutes.
Watson: Thank you. I'm with the owner of the property and I just joined the meeting. I,
obviously, signed up in the wrong category, but Tamara did an awesome job and
represented us well and I don't have anything more to say.
Simison: Thank you very much. Council, any questions for Mr. Watson? And, Mr.
Watson, if you could, just for the record just give us your address so we have it.
Watson: Yes. 166 East 14000 South, Suite 210, Draper, D-r-a-p-e-r, Utah. 84020.
Simison: Thank you. Seeing no one else who has signed up to testify or coming forward
to do so, would the applicant like to make any final comments?
Thompson: Mr. Mayor, Tamara Thompson again. No final comments. Thank you.
Simison: Council, what's your pleasure?
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: No one else wants to comment, I move that we close the public hearing on No.
3, Item H-2020-0104.
Hoaglun: I will second the motion, Mr. Mayor.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. Is there any
discussion on the motion? If not, all in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay. The
ayes have it and the public hearing is closed.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. TWO ABSENT.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Tamara did a great job with the report and appreciate Tamara being here
virtually. Again, not a lot of discussion on the Planning and Zoning Commission. This
seems pretty cut and dry. So, with that I move approval of item H-2020-0104, the
preliminary plat. I don't think there is any other revisions within that. So, I would move
that we approve it as presented.
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Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor, second the motion.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to approve the item. Is there any discussion on
the motion? If not, Clerk will call the roll.
Roll call: Bernt, yea; Borton, absent; Cavener, yea; Hoaglun, yea; Strader, yea; Perreault,
absent.
Simison: All ayes. Motion carries and the item is agreed to.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. TWO ABSENT.
Simison: Thank you very much. Joe, appreciate you being here. Merry Christmas. And
you, too, Tamara.
Dodson: Merry Christmas. Thank you guys. I will be here for a few more minutes to help
this applicant get going and, then, I will merry my way out.
4. Public Hearing for Oakwind Estates Subdivision (H-2020-0093) by
Engineering Solutions, Located at 5685 N. Black Cat Rd.
A. Request: Preliminary Plat for 94 single family lots, 92 townhome lots,
26 common lots and 3 common driveway lots on 24.54 acres.
B. Request: A Modification to the Existing Development Agreement
(Inst. #114030972) to allow townhomes and patio homes whereas
the existing development agreement allows self-storage and
multi-family.
Simison: Okay. Next item is a public hearing for Oakwind Estates Subdivision, H-2020-
0093. We will open this public hearing was staff comments.
Johnson: Mr. Mayor, my apologies. Alan is entering the meeting now. I didn't put him
over fast enough.
Simison: No problem. Well, Alan, you are ready to go as soon as you get situated.
Tiefenbach: Sorry, Mr. Mayor, I didn't have the -- I was just given the ability to share and
to -- so give me just one second, sir.
Simison: Okay.
Tiefenbach: All right. Let's see here. Can you see that?
Simison: Yes.
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Tiefenbach: Okay. All right. Greetings, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council. This is a
preliminary plat and a development agreement modification. This site consists of just a
little bit short of 25 acres, zoned R-15, located at the northeast corner of North McDermott
Road and West McMillan Road. If you know the area -- hopefully you can see my pointer.
This is the Gem Innovation School, which recently got a conditional use. To the east is
single family residence, as well as to the west and to the south. A little history on this
property. Oh. And here is the ACHD preliminary lines map. The property is outlined in
blue. What you see in red are the subdivisions that are building out or are approved and
what you see in yellow are projects that are still in the hearing stage -- active hearing
applications. So, kind of a long history on this one. In 2008 the subject property received
annexation approval for a large master plan residential development. That was called
The Oak Creek. In 2013 the subject property was rezoned to R-15 as a portion of the
Oaks North Subdivision. This was a huge subdivision. The subject property was
approved for multi-family and self storage uses. So, to the north was multi-family and to
the south was self storage. The development agreement was amended to allow this. In
2018 the multi-family portion of the project was proposed to be rezoned to R-8 and this
was to develop single family residential. This included another amendment to the DA. It
went to the Planning Commission, but it didn't go to Council. The preliminary -- the plat
was never finalized. So, it reverts back to the original Oaks North plat, which, again,
allows only multi-family and self storage on this area. The -- this proposal is for 94 single
family residential lots and 92 townhouse lots, three common driveways and 26 common
lots. So, on the north is what you see are the 94 single family lots. To the south you see
here those are the townhouses. So, again, as I have listed, there have been several
rezonings and development agreements relating to this property. This preliminary plat
would include a new development agreement to allow single family and townhouse uses,
instead of the multi-family and the self storage. Again, like I said, 92 townhouses, 94
single family. The proposed street network stubs two streets to the east. One is
Cherrybrook -- this is Cherrybrook, which you can see here. The other is Daphne, which
you can see here. This is Trident, which is an existing street, and it connects to McMillan
through the Elks -- or through The Oaks Subdivision. This proposal would not provide
direct access to an arterial, nor would it increase the number of access points to nearby
collectors. There is several internal roads, as you can see, and the townhouses are
actually alley loaded and they are set up along the MEWS, which are these little parks
and these pathways as you can see here. ACHD's commented that Marysville Street and
Palustris Avenue, which are these two streets here, were very long and they needed to
have traffic calming. I'm sure the applicant is going to talk a little bit about that. They
have done that. I want to make a point of clarification. The staff report mentioned that
the applicant would be required to conserve --to construct curb and gutter along McMillan.
However, it's been later clarified that it is known as an arterial and the curb and gutter
were not required. Finally, I want to note that the unified development code stated that
residential development along McDermott had to provide noise abatement by a wall or a
berm or a combination of that. This was recommended as a condition of approval at the
November 5th Planning Commission hearing. The applicant has since updated the plans.
You probably can't read it here, but it's called out here and if you look in the staff report I
provided a section of that sound attenuation structure on those berms. This development
proposes not just a little shy of 70 percent qualified open space. Move forward here.
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Here is a picture of the central amenity. This includes several grassy areas larger than
50 by 100, pathways along all the landscape buffers and micro pathways and MEWs, as
well as this one acre park. Again, pathways include a ten foot pathway along Dermott, a
five foot pathway along McMillan, and numerous micro pathways. This outdoor park that
you see here contains a playground, a firepit, outdoor kitchen and a shelter. Also the
applicant has provided -- provided an updated parking plan. This is what you see here.
So, the townhouses in particular -- each town house -- house has a two car garage and
a driveway large enough for two cars. So, four cars for each townhouse. In addition to
that, there is additional on-street parking as well. No, the on-street parking can't be
counted as part of the parking requirements, but this parking plan is to demonstrate that
there is sufficient parking here. The applicant has also provided building elevations at the
originals -- with the original staff report and some of the earlier versions, the elevations
that staff saw, we thought that there needed to be a few changes made. These were
mostly to extending some roof lines and breaking up some of the roofs on the
townhouses. The original roof lines were very very long. So, they have broken up these
roof lines, so you don't see these long massive structures. So, this was heard by the
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission on November 5th. At the Planning
Commission the Commissioners -- they recommended approval, but there were three
things that they added. The first one is that they recommended that the development
agreement be modified to include a limitation to no more than three units on a common
drive. The applicant shows four units on a common drive and it's important to note that
our -- that our Unified Development Code allows six. So, you can have three on each
side of the common drive. So, again, the Planning Commission made a recommendation
to only have three total. The second recommendation that the Planning Commission
made was that they wanted to revise the plans to incorporate additional parking and the
third was that they thought that there wasn't enough open space. I think that the -- the
applicant is going to speak to this. Staff is okay with the -- with the proposal as it's
presented. They are well in excess of what the code requires. So, I think that the -- the
applicant is going to -- they are not agreeable to these conditions and I'm here to stand
for any questions if you would like, Council.
Simison: All right. Thank you, Alan. Council, any questions for staff?
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: I have a question for staff. If Mr. -- Deputy Chief Bongiorno is here or another
fire department person.
Tiefenbach: I'm not aware of fire present, ma'am.
Simison: We do have Deputy Chief Bongiorno.
Bongiorno: I'm here.
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Tiefenbach: Oh. Hi, Joe.
Strader: Hey. Thank you. So, my five minute fire spots -- I feel like a broken record. So,
this was approved in 2008. It happened; right? Multi-family, too, maybe riskier than single
family. But I'm looking at the map on the agency comments. It's outside of the five
minutes, but it was in black and white on laserfiche. I couldn't tell how close to five
minutes it was. Just give me a feel for how long -- how -- how far outside of the five
minutes this might be if you could and, then, in your opinion, is this an improvement
moving from multi-family to single family and townhomes from a safety perspective, if we
were going to be stuck with multi-family instead?
Bongiorno: Mr. Mayor, Council Woman Strader, this project is outside -- the five minute
response barrier in that map -- I can pull up the map and show it to you if you like. Ends
right at Trident or right before Trident. The last time Ms. McKay and I had spoken, they
were going to fire sprinkler everything in this development. So, I'm not sure if that's still
being done, but that's the last discussion that we had. Let me -- do I have -- Mr. Clerk or
Madam Clerk, do I have the ability to share this map?
Johnson: Mr. Mayor, Chief, you do, yes. Just share screen. Bottom of your screen.
Bongiorno: Oh, there it is right there. It's in green. Okay. Let me know what's up and I
will --
Johnson: It's visible now.
Bongiorno: Okay. There we go. So, actually, the five minute response area kind of ends
back there at Rustic Oak. So, that's what the map looks like at this time and, again, last
time I talked with Ms. McKay they had talked about that whole section there in orange
that was brought to you tonight, they were going to go ahead and fire sprinkler that. Again,
if we ever get to station seven, station eight, however it plays out, that property is nearby
and would definitely -- so, here is the school. This piece of property right here is the one
that the city owns right now -- or the fire department owns. So, it's less than a mile away.
It's right around the corner literally.
Strader: Thank you.
Simison: Council, any additional questions for staff? Okay. Invite the applicant to come
forward, be recognized for 15 minutes.
McKay: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Members of the City Council. I'm Becky McKay with
Engineering Solutions. Business address 1029 North Rosario in Meridian. We are
representing the applicant on the application that's before you. As staff indicated, this is
approximately 24 and a half acres, located there on the northeast corner of McDermott
and McMillan Road. Initially when --when I brought through the Oaks North and the Oaks
South development in 2013, our original preliminary plat, this particular area was planned
for apartments and mini storage. There was a condition within our development
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agreement that stated that we would have at a minimum eight dwelling units per acre on
this site. The reason being is at the time the staff and the Council wanted to see some
diversity in the subdivision and they wanted us to provide some type of rental type
component here. A lot has changed over the past seven years. ITD has changed their
plan for McMillan to be an overpass over the new State Highway 16. Instead, State
Highway 16 will go over the top of McMillan Road. Therefore, their initial plan for
McDermott bypass kind of went by the wayside and I did receive in writing from ITD
indicating that they would no longer need the right of way that we anticipated for the
overpass, since it -- 16 will go over McMillan. The applicant on this particular project is
BB Living. They are a division of Toll Brothers. They are a company that does townhomes
and detached single family and they rent and manage them. They have on-site
management for these facilities. So, when we took a look at -- at this site design there is
-- where is my cursor? How come I always get lost. There I am. So, this is -- this is the
area here. We just showed it. We didn't have any multi-family site plan. It was just
designated for X number of dwelling units and, then, we had some mini storage here and
the mini storage component was anticipated because we didn't want to put houses under
an overpass. But, like I said, since that is no longer the plan, then, we kind of had to
rethink this particular area. So, we came up with -- with a mixture of -- we have
townhouses in the southern portion adjacent to McMillan, which is an arterial, and
McDermott right there at the intersection, which is now downgraded to a collector roadway
and, then, on the northern portion we would have single family dwellings. This kind of
gives you a better -- a better view of the project. So, we have a collector that comes into
the site called Trident Way. So, we are not proposing any new approaches to McDermott
or to McMillan. Ada County Highway District reviewed the site plan and the type of units
and indicated that we would generate less traffic than the initial plan for the apartments
and the mini storage and, therefore, they did not require a updated traffic study. Also over
the past seven years we have built the roundabout at Rustic Oak Way, which is the
primary continuous collector into Oaks North and Oaks South. It goes clear -- it will go
eventually to the north and it already is stubbed to the south next to Five Mile Creek. One
of the things that we wanted to do is, obviously, create a nice appeal as the -- as you
enter into Trident. So, that's why we kind of have these units -- as you can see we have
this -- this building, we have sets of fours, fives, sixes and, then, these are not all in a
straight line, but they are kind of angled, so that it gives it a -- kind of a better esthetic feel
as you come in if the buildings aren't all lined up. We have 35 feet of landscaping along
McMillan Road. We will be widening that 17 feet from centerline with a five foot detached
walk. We kept that intersection free of any dwellings. We have a pedestrian pathway
that comes down and links in, so we can, obviously, create some type of landscape or
some type of, you know, visual interest here at the intersection. We -- your pathway
consultant had indicated that McDermott Road is planned for a ten foot multi-use pathway.
So, we do have 35 feet of landscaping for the entryway corridor that McDermott is and,
then, we have a ten foot multi-use pathway. Staff has indicated the UDC requires berming
and, then, a sound wall and they have asked us to install that with the first phase and,
then, install our landscape fencing and sidewalk along McMillan with the first phase and
we have agreed to that. Up here we have the Creason Lateral, which we piped all the
way through The Oaks project and we have a pathway that runs along the Creason. So,
we will be linking into that with a micro path and, then, another pathway that goes out to
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McDermott here. The charter school is proposed here right along our northern boundary.
We have internal micro paths, as you can see, that lead up through to the internal pathway
system within the Oaks North project. We have 1.7 -- or a 1.07 acre central amenity
located here and, then, we have pathways that link down into the townhome area and,
then, we have a MEW that runs between the buildings and, then, pathways that run both
north and south. So, everyone has easy access.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Yes, Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Sorry, Becky. I don't mean to interrupt. I'm not sure -- what is a MEW?
McKay: A MEW is -- has to be under -- in your UDC a minimum of 20 feet wide. It's a
landscaped grassed area with a five foot pathway and it is a common area that's in
between either single family dwellings or townhomes. So, they sit on a common area.
So, one of the things that -- that BB Living wanted to do was if -- if we have garages front
loaded on our public streets -- and all of these streets are proposed as public, we wanted
to have some alley load product that gives it a little bit of variety and -- and visual interest.
Where, then, we can have -- instead of being garage oriented, they are on the alley here,
which is a public alley, and, then, the front of the structures are on this Daphne Street that
comes in. The sidewalks on Daphne are all detached with an eight foot landscaped strip.
We have left a lot of landscape area here, so that we can put a monument, create a sense
of place for this development, and, then, all of the -- of the sidewalk is detached along
Daphne. On the internal public streets they are five foot attached and they are all 33 feet
from back of curb to back of curb. This is kind of a blow up of the landscape plan. As
you can see -- you can see what we have done here at the McDermott-McMillan
intersection where we have significant landscaping and pedestrian pathways that link into
the sidewalk. As we come up here you can see that we have our primary central amenity.
We have playground equipment. We have an outdoor kitchen barbecue area. We have
a seating area. We have a gathering place with a fireplace and, then, here you can see
these micro paths that are coming up. We have end block buffers on all of our end blocks.
Even though this is an R-15 zone, we are not using three foot sideyard setbacks. Our
sideyard setbacks are five for all of the single family dwellings and, then, obviously, for
the townhomes. Here is a blow up of that central amenity. You can see here is like a play
structure. There is swings here. Then there is also another -- a third play equipment
that's here. We have our outdoor kitchen. You can see it located here. Then we have
this kind of little plaza area where we have seating, gas fireplace, and, then, here we have
a picnic area. So this is kind of a blow up of that amenity. They have built these and
other communities. You can kind of see it's all covered. Very inviting. Here is the kitchen
area. It's not just a barbecuer stuck out with -- you know, in the middle of nowhere. It's
a full, you know, kitchen area where people can be asleep, gather after COVID and
barbecue and have -- have a few drinks or pop and -- and -- and get together and that's
-- that's their theme. They -- they cater to -- to people that want smaller rental lots and
here is another gathering area that we will be emulating. You can see they have the
Adirondack chairs. They have the fireplace. They use planters and, like I said, a plaza
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type concept that's very inviting. This is an elevation of those single family dwellings.
During the -- the Planning and Zoning Commission and staff's review they had asked us
to add some additional modulation to that front elevation, so we -- we did add an element
over the garages. We have extended the roof lines, so that the two story don't have just
a single plain in the front. There will be a mixture of single story and two stories in the
detached units. Here is another example where we have gone in and placed in -- an
architectural feature right over the garage to add that modulation articulation. There is a
street scene, kind of shows you what the dwellings would look like. These are the
townhomes. Each one of them has a two car garage. Each one is -- the minimum size
of those garages are 20 by 20. Some of the garages are a little bit larger, like 20 and a
half by 20, and, then, we will have two spaces in front of the garage. Your current UDC
requires that we be able to park two cars in the garage and two on the driveway and we
do meet those standards. One of the things that staff had asked us to do was to create
some relief in this roof, that we wouldn't have any longer than 50 feet where we would
change in elevation to just add some character to that roofline and break it up. This kind
of gives you an end view. You can see the --the doors, the different architectural features.
A lot of articulation. Changing of materials to -- to create a nice exterior look, whether it's
from the side, the front, or from the rear. This is -- they have their Craftsman style. They
have different multiple styles, multiple color schemes, so they are not all identical. It's
going to, obviously, be diversified in how it looks. So, it does not look like that one product
was constructed throughout the whole development. Before BB Living gave me some of
their-- their demographics and some examples of -- like the play equipment they have in
other communities. The -- one of the things that they wanted me to, obviously, emphasize
was the fact that--oh, Clang it. I'm sorry. They wanted me to emphasize that their average
renter stays for approximately two years. The average age of their renter is approximately
39 years old, with a combined income of around 124,000. Typically each household is
comprised of two adults, one child, and a half a pet and I'm not sure what the half a pet
is. I only have whole pets. So, this -- they -- they don't allow any of the -- the renters to
use the garages for storage. The cars must be parked in the garage. They have on-site
management that's there 24/7. If they violate any of their rules they give them warnings.
They make sure that these neighborhoods are well kept and, obviously, they are looking
for people that want a smaller lot, want to rent, but want to be in an excellent larger
community and that's what Oaks North is. Oops. So, one of the things that I wanted to
-- to emphasize is this property is already zoned R-15. Our proposed density is 7.58. We
are not asking for a rezone. It's already zoned for it. We are asking basically for less
density than what is in the original development agreement and that is why we are asking
for a DA modification. Also to take out that apartment component. In closing, we have
20 percent of open space and 16.75 percent qualified open space. So, we will exceed
the ten percent and we have significant parking. As Alan indicated, we have 60 spaces
for guests. Can I answer any questions you may have?
Simison: Thank you, Becky. Council, any questions?
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
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Strader: Quick question, Becky. If you could just confirm that you are okay with a
requirement to sprinkler the whole subdivision, as the deputy chief alluded to.
McKay: Mr. Mayor, Council Woman Strader, yes. In our-- in our pre-application meetings
with Mr. Bongiorno we did agree that all units, including the townhomes and single family,
would be sprinkled.
Strader: Thank you.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor, Becky, can you address the request from the Commission to limit
no more than three units on a common drive and kind of point out where those are and
how many units?
McKay: Yes. Mr. Mayor, Councilman Hoaglun, we have only three common drives. We
have one up in the northwest corner where we have the detached single family dwellings.
There are three. We have one common drive here where we have four townhomes. We
have a common drive over here in the southeast corner where we have four townhomes.
Your UDC allows us to have up to six. The Fire Department and Public Works did review
our driveways. We did submit to Public Works a design of our -- how we would handle
our utilities and they were in full agreement that having the four units was acceptable and
as you can see our driveways fan out when they reach the road. So, it's not just a narrow
20 foot little corridor. So, we are asking that the Council allow us to have four units on
these two common driveways.
Hoaglun: And -- thank you, Becky. Mr. Mayor, follow up?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Becky, also why don't you talk about the -- incorporating
additional parking and open space for the townhouses. I think that was another issue
that was discussed.
McKay: Mr. Mayor, Councilman Hoaglun, at the Planning and Zoning Commission we
had -- the staff recommended approval and we had no opposition to our project and they
asked a handful of questions and, then, they closed the public hearing and after the public
hearing was closed, then, they started debating the driveways and debating the -- the
open space and I really don't think they had a good grasp of the magnitude of open space
that we have within this project. I have 4.97 acres of total open space in this project,
which is over 20 percent. I have six -- almost 17 percent qualified open space. So, I'm
on your ordinance committee that has been working on the new open space requirements
and even in this -- with the new ordinance up'ing the open space to 15 percent I still
exceed the new ordinance. So, I really was absolutely baffled by the Planning and Zoning
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Commission saying we don't think you have enough open space. Throughout the Oaks
North we have I think 27 acres of open space. They will be able to use the clubhouse
and pool and, then, we are also providing almost five acres of open space within this
project. So, I was -- I didn't understand where they were going. I couldn't address it,
because they closed the public hearing. It's -- it's -- it -- it kind of went sideways. One of
those nights where -- Twilight Zone night. So, yeah, this -- this project -- you know, we
want -- we have got it fit -- you know, with a great feel with the MEWs, with the ped paths,
with the -- over an acre, you know, gathering places and in the landscaping. I mean I
think we have got -- these guys have gone up beyond and, you know, they are -- they are
going to landscape the heck out of this, because they want it to be a real component of
The Oaks and not be just like the -- you know, an apartment component that was stuck in
as an afterthought. This is integrated into that project. So, I ask the -- the Council to
accept the open space that we have proposed, since it far exceeds your code.
Hoaglun: Thank you, Becky.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Becky, is my assumption correct, the whole
neighborhood will be rentals, then; correct?
McKay: Yes, sir.
Cavener: So, Mr. Mayor a follow up.
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: And I think, Becky, this is -- I think where the Planning and Zoning Commission
was getting, which is -- what it appears to me is -- it was not intended on your part, but it
appears to be an unintended kind of income equity issue in that your larger single family
homes that are going to have a little bit more space for people to recreate and play and
your guys's estimation is about 180 kids in this neighborhood, all in close proximity to the
usable open space. Whereas those that are in the townhouse are the -- are far -- further
away from it and so I think the direction the Planning and Zoning Commission was getting
to -- and, frankly, I agree -- is not that you guys haven't went over and above with your
open space, it is where it's located. I think that's a missed opportunity to provide more
usable open space, particularly to the part of your neighbors that are going to need it the
most.
McKay: Mr. Mayor, Councilman Cavener, one of the things that they -- that I think you
need to kind of take into consideration is the families that rent will most likely be within
the -- with the single family lots. We put the primary open space, along with the play
equipment, right here at the entrance. We have pedestrian pathways that come straight
up and we have the MEW and most of the townhome people are either singles or a lot of
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them have no children. That's -- that's kind of, you know, the demographics that they --
that they have.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Becky, could you pull up the -- you showed us a slide that broke down the demo
and maybe I misread it.
McKay: Yeah. I think what they -- they were talking overall in their product, so -- so, if
you look at -- look at the townhomes -- the average -- the average lot size for the single
family lot is 3,702 square feet. The average lot size for the townhomes is 2,481 square
feet. Everyone that I know that lives in a townhome, they are either single or they have
no children. They are empty nesters.
Cavener: Becky --
McKay: We find that people that have --
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
McKay: -- kids typically want the single family.
Cavener: Becky, with all due respect, I think that we see a lot of young families in all sorts
of living situations and I -- I have not seen a townhouse complex in Meridian that does
not have young kids, unless it's age restricted. So, that's just going to have to be a piece
that we are going to have to agree to disagree on.
McKay: Jason Jarvis is with BB Living. He is the expert. They build these communities
all over. So, I would like him to address that.
Jarvis: Jason Jarvis. BB Living. 4900 North Scottsdale Road, Scottsdale, Arizona.
Thank you very much, Mayor and Council Member Cavener. Yeah, we are not saying
that there will not be kids in there. What that demographic was supposed to be showing
which is on the average throughout our communities, through all of our markets, and we
are in five or six different markets right now. So, again, not -- not trying to state there
wouldn't be any, but traditionally we see more -- you know, for -- for every two kids in a
single family, then, we have a professional couple in a townhome. So, on the average --
and we do see some kids in there, but typically, since that is a smaller unit, I mean if you
have got a lot of kids you are not going to rent -- typically they don't rent there long term.
It's usually with a younger child and that's why we try to spend so much time -- like Becky
stated -- on the pathways in the MEW to kind of put that centralized open space in the
middle of the community where everybody had a pathway and availability to get there, as
well as when you drive in with that sense of arrival, so that there was -- agree to disagree
on whether you like it or not, but that was the thought process behind it.
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Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Appreciate that. Not trying to jam you up. I think -- I think what we are saying
is the same thing. You are putting a lot of people -- and, yeah, there is going to be young
families, there are going to be kids that are there. Again, you are saying one for every
unit. Haven't even talked about the dogs yet or the .5 pets. But that's where my concern
comes from is you have got the smaller unit that is the furthest away from the usable open
space. So, I think that was the point that the Planning and Zoning Commission was trying
to make as well. Disappointing they didn't have an opportunity, Becky, I think for you to
respond and provide that -- that context. We have been guilty of that as well as the
Council. I'm just trying to wrap my head around why that location, again, and why not an
opportunity for the folks that are going to be in a much smaller unit to have that equal
access in a part of Meridian that we don't have as much of a park system right now as we
would like to have.
Jarvis: And I just wanted to add one more thing. Being part of The Oaks, all of our
residents do have access to all of the other amenities within the master plan as well.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Jason, I hadn't seen that in a staff report. I appreciate you saying that. I had
a question about -- there is a lot of exhibits showing pools and I didn't see a pool here, so
that -- that piece makes a little bit more context to me, but I'm -- I'm just trying to think
about the mom or the dad that has a seven year old kid, they are going to feel much more
comfortable with their seven year old kid walking to the greenspace or the playground
that's down at he end of the street than is walking to, again, a beautiful complex that has
great amenities, but maybe a mom or dad wouldn't feel comfortable letting their seven,
eight, or nine year old go and do that and that's one of the things that makes Meridian so
great is our open space. Places for families to congregate. And so I just -- I love your
guys' work. Becky, you talked about the roundabout and we talked about sense of place.
It's wonderful. I just feel on this particular element you guys missed the mark.
McKay: Yeah. Mr. Mayor, Councilman Cavener, I think, you know, here are -- this
entrance was set with -- with the Oaks. So, the utilities and the street were set there. So,
what -- what we tried to create was -- we would have our own sense of place with this
significant landscaping here at our entrance and, then, since there is no -- there are no
driveways here, no driveways at all on Daphne, so this is all detached walk. So, it is very
pedestrian friendly and that's what all these micro paths lead to and so one of the things
that we always work with with the staff is in a project they want me to centrally locate that
open space. Don't -- you know, if-- I see a lot of projects where they will put it like -- you
know, it's over in the low point of the -- of the project, because it serves storm drainage
purposes.
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Cavener: Sure.
McKay: Here that's not the case. We put it right smack in the middle. So, it is -- you
know, the distance from the lots on the north and the lots on the south aren't that -- that
significant and all of those micro paths from each -- the north quadrant and the south
quadrant all lead to it and, then, the MEW -- I don't think the Commission really understood
the MEW. I mean that creates open space, play areas where they can throw the Frisbee,
chase the dog, all kinds of things. So, it's not like this is the only game in town and we
have two pool facilities in Oaks North and South. We have got playgrounds that are
spread throughout. We have multi use path -- ten foot pathways that go north, south,
east, west. So, this is one of the most walkable, bike friendly neighborhoods in Meridian
and this is a component of that and so I -- I would not -- as a planner I would not have
stuck it down in the townhomes, because, then, the staff would have said, well, we want
it centrally located so everybody can benefit from it.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Becky, I agree with staff. I go crazy when -- and you see this, because you are
going to be at the public hearings where somebody else brings in -- and you're right, they
put in the drainage pond and that's suddenly an amenity. I sniffed that out. That doesn't
go very far. But to me if it is not a -- in place of, but in addition to and, honestly, I think
you touched on the MEW as an ideal location. A MEW is great for, again, persons that is
going to take their dog out to use the restroom. A MEW is not great for a nine or ten year
old kid, including, you know, a recreation amenity -- again, one that you have gotten your
plaza, moved over there -- to me -- I guess that's kind of what I -- when I knew that this
type of a project was coming and the reputation they have, those are the type of things
that I was expecting, because I think you guys strive to level up. So, to me it was not a
case of one or the other, it's in addition to.
McKay: Mr. Mayor, Councilman Cavener, would it be more palatable to you for us to put
some type of a play structure in the MEW? Jason?
Jarvis: Mayor, Councilman Cavener, thank you. What -- what we -- what we find and
what I just kind of wanted to bring again on the central open space -- and this is kind of
what we programmed, you know, in other markets just from our experience and what we
have seen and what resident feedback we have got back. So, we do spend a lot of time
with those MEWs. What we find is that, you know, the seven year or nine year old kid
you are not going to go out and throw the ball right there, because it's really not the spot.
But what they do do is they get on their bikes or their skateboards or their scooters and
they go with mom and dad and they take a walk and they go up to the park and that's why
we focus a lot more of that grassy area where little brother can go play on the -- on the
playground and big brother and dad can throw the football or throw the baseball or kick
the soccer ball around and, again, that's the -- that's the thought process behind it and
why we put the focus there and what we find is we do get a lot of, you know, mom with
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her stroller with those younger kids out walking the community and, then, you know, that's
kind of the destination where they get out to play and then -- and, then, head back. So,
again, just trying to explain our reasoning behind it and appreciate all your comments.
They are very valid, but -- but just wanted to kind of let you know where our thoughts were
on it.
Cavener: Thank you. Appreciate it.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
McKay: Councilman Cavener, we -- we worked this site plan. We had -- I bet we had 20
variations trying to achieve the -- what their vision was going to be, what would comply
with Meridian's UDC, what would comply with ACHD requirements and I think we are
there. I mean if -- if -- if you are thinking that you want some -- you know, some little
feature within -- or gathering place in the MEW, you know, then, I think -- I think Jason
and his group are very willing to do that. Sorry.
Simison: Council Woman Strader, were you looking to speak?
Strader: Yeah. Yes. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Yeah. I share some of the same concern.
Like I'm looking -- and I guess for a single family resident in sort of the northern quadrant
or part of the property there is micro path at least, if they are the farthest away in that last
row, they are near Gem Innovation School and, then, there is a micro path leading them
there and I guess what I'm struggling with is I don't see that kind of access to the green
space from the folks that are -- I guess at the southern area along McMillan. Like I see
the two micro paths leading from north in the townhomes toward the MEW, but I don't see
a similar set of micro paths leading toward the MEW. So, I'm imagining someone on that
sort of southern most row of townhomes has to walk all the way around to get to the green
space. I think that -- that will be my -- part of my perception, is that maybe --
McKay: Mr. Mayor --
Strader: There is something that needs to be done -- excuse me. Sorry. Just give me
one second and I will get out my second part of my question, which is -- I absolutely hate
these shared common drives. I know what our code says. I hope we change it soon. I
really -- it looks to me like we are really cramming them on there where we have four and
I just want to get that out there. I like what you are doing. I think it's beautiful. But I think
we need more paths to get to the green space for the townhomes and I think there are
way too many townhomes sharing these common drives in the corners.
McKay: Mr. Mayor, Council Woman Strader, so it's kind of hard to see at this -- at this
particular scale. So, you can see that there is a micro path here. We have another micro
path here. Oh, crud. And, then, there is a micro path -- there -- this is the alleyway, then,
we have another micro path that comes here, here, and, then, we have a pathway that
comes here and another one here. So, there is a pathway that goes all the way through
these blocks that leads up to the central amenity and, then, on the common drive issues,
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you know, the -- the UDC allows us to have up to six. I think six is too many. I don't think
there should be any more than four. In some instances it makes sense. Like, you know,
in these corners we struggled here. Obviously, trying to make this work. It's hard when
you have a 90 to put townhomes on a 90 degree curve here. So, it's kind of out of
necessity that we have the common drives. But, obviously, you can see that it is the
exception in this project and not--similar to some of the other projects where you required
redesign, because they had a whole bunch of common drives throughout their entire
project. We just have -- we have three units up here in this northwest corner. We have
about three and a half, because this lot -- this townhome here is technically on the public
street and, then, the only area we have four is right here. I guess my recommendation, if
the Council, you know, has heartburn with the common drives, then, we should change
the UDC to -- to not allow it, but -- but we have worked with Fire, we have worked with
Public Works, we have worked with Planning to integrate it into this project and, like I
said, we -- we only have three. Did I answer your question?
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: I think you tried -- I think you -- you gave it a good -- a good go. I guess I'm just
not seeing where those micro paths are. How wide are they? How are they in comparison
to the other ones that are clearly marked on the map and, then, I guess the second part
of my -- I guess just thought processes is to your point, I think we are in the process of
looking at our UDC. We should absolutely do that. But, you know, it's not just about the
UDC, we are really looking for -- I think trying to level up and I think we are really holding
all of our applicants to a higher standard these days, whether it's open space, et cetera.
I think you are really--you are hitting the high marks for the most part. I'm not liking those
four especially. But, yeah, if you could just show us the -- the pathway you are talking
about and how it compares that would be super.
McKay: Yeah. Right -- it's hard to see -- it's a five foot wide pathway here. There is five
foot of landscaping on each side and, there is another five foot pathway here with five
feet of landscaping on each side and, then, it links to these pathways that are here and
-- I'm not sure if those are 15 or those are 20. Those may be 20. So, they show up a little
bit -- and, then, we have -- we have some 15s and, then, we have some pathways that
are 30. This pathway here is 30 feet wide, with a five foot -- it's a 30 foot wide lot with a
five foot path. This one's 15 with a five foot path. And, then, this one up here opens up.
It's 30 feet. So, we have these -- these common lots allowing for that pedestrian
interconnectivity through -- from north to south and, then, from east to west. And, then,
we have a pathway that also comes down and links into the detached walk along McMillan
and the ten foot multi-use pathway that goes along McDermott. If someone follows the
ten foot multi-use pathway over to the east, then, they will hook into the multi-use pathway
-- there it is. So, we -- in The Oaks project -- Oaks North we have a ten foot pathway that
goes all the way up and all the way here which, then, was connected with the adjoining
project and lines up with the collector over here and the elementary school is located over
at Bainbridge and Volterra and I designed the Volterra Subdivision also. Then the multi-
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use pathway goes all the way to the south, hooks into the ten foot multi-use pathway
along Five Mile Creek that we installed. So, this -- this is definitely one of your most
walkable neighborhoods and we kept that in mind in our site planning for this corner, that
we would accommodate that and also knowing that that is a charter school, so by
incorporating our north path -- our north pathway -- oops. It goes up to the school and --
and -- and I agree with -- with Councilman Strader, setting the bar high -- with The Oaks
project we set the bar high and I think what we have proposed here, is far -- is far better
than what was initially within our development application of the apartments and the mini
storage. This provides a better component that -- that is giving us diversity in a very large
subdivision that had 365 acres.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt. Just --just another quick comment. I don't know if it's any
-- something that I would approve or disapprove of in -- with regard to this -- this
application, but one of the things that I see in these -- these private drives is when people
park on both sides of the road it really creates an issue and I have seen it personally when
I have -- I have driven through similar communities and have received many complaints
and a-mails in regard to this over the years and so what are the assurances that we are
not going to have parking problems, especially in these smaller units in this -- in this
community?
McKay: Mr. Mayor, Councilman Bernt, the common drives have to be striped and signed
as no parking. Also BB Living sets the rules for the driveways. We are providing a 20 by
20 driveway -- 20 by 20 garage. As you can see how these fan out, there is also parking
with -- this is your parallel parking standard. It's nine by 25 -- or 23. Excuse me. Nine --
we have calculated nine by 23. So, there is parking here for guests. There is also
intermittent parking on the street. We also did a cross-section so that if -- if they have
guests most of the residents -- they indicated to me at BB Living they have two cars and
in most of their jurisdictions they average 2.5 to 2.8 parking spaces per unit and here in
this townhome area we have 4.65 parking spaces per unit.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: Becky, I'm loving the stats tonight. You are throwing stats like crazy. I love it. I
love how you call pop pop, not soda, by the way. I heard that earlier. I don't know -- you
are from Idaho like me, I guess.
McKay: I am. I'm a native.
Bernt: So, my -- we are not talking about like an urban area here. We are talking about
suburbia --
McKay: Sure.
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Bernt: -- where the garages are going to be stuffed full of stuff. I mean it's just reality.
And so that's my -- that's my concern is that, you know --
McKay: I would like Jason to address that, because he and I had this conversation.
Bernt: It's a different story when we are more urban -- you know, we have more density,
you know, we are downtown, we want to go up, less parking, because we want people to
walk. We want to get people on their bikes, but this is not one of those locations and so
I have a concern about where you are going to stuff all of these cars, because it's -- it's
-- and it wouldn't be such a big deal, but this is dense.
Jarvis: Yeah. Very good. Mayor, Council Member Bernt, appreciate the comment. Yes.
So, the parking -- one of the nuances with -- with being a rental community is -- is we
don't build it and go away. We have to build it and manage it. So, we look into that quite
extensively and as Becky had kind of stated, typically on these projects we are about 2.5
to 2.8 parking spaces per unit. So, a little bit -- so, two in the garage and, then, one guest
spot -- a little bit less than that here. At that 4.6 we felt very very good about that amount
of parking and one of the things that's specific --
Bernt: I don't mean to interrupt --
Jarvis: -- that's specific, because I want to answer your -- your garage question. So, in
our lease agreements we -- we write in our lease agreements that the -- the tenant will
agree that they have to park cars in their garage. It is not to be used for storage and we
have enforcement contingencies in our leasing agreement to cover that, as well as -- as
Becky had stated earlier, we have full-time leasing staff that's on site at all times that help
enforce that, because it does become, you know, an issue as you have seen in these
other communities. So, that's one of the ways that we handle it, because we want to
make sure it's good for our residents as well and, then, she had touched base on the fire
-- the no parking on the fire lane on those alleys to make sure that we are not in there.
And just like another HOA, we monitor that as well with our on-site staff.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor, a follow up?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: Would you be willing to put in the DA that -- that you will be the -- the -- would you
--the property manager as the owner of-- of the properties in -- because that--that brings
assurance to me, because you have someone on site. You guys -- you guys are checking
it out and I don't mean to be picking on you, I just know Meridian. I mean I know you're
not from here, but I'm from here, I have lived here for a long, long time and Becky has
looked at these things and has designed them multiple times. It's going to be an issue. I
-- but with you -- I guess the difference maybe is that in most cases the owners or
developers of the property aren't the ones normally who are looking over and on site.
That makes a huge difference.
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Jarvis: Correct. And that -- you know, Mayor and Council Member Bernt, yes, that --
that's exactly what we were trying to portray, because if we have a site where you come
in and there is cars everywhere and there is nowhere to park, it turns people off --
Bernt: Right.
Jarvis: -- from wanting to sign a lease there. So, that is something that we are very
conscious about and we wouldn't have a problem agreeing to that.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Bernt: That's easy.
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Thank you Mr. Mayor. To kind of dovetail on that, Becky, I will put you on the
spot -- or maybe Alan can look it up. Is Trident Way going to be listed as no parking or
will there be on-street parking allowed on Trident Way?
McKay: Mr. Mayor, Councilman Cavener, Trident Way is a collector roadway. So, it is
signed no parking.
Simison: Council, any further questions?
McKay: Mr. Mayor, Deb Nelson would like to --
Simison: Well, let's -- let's wait -- is she representing part of the team? Okay. So, not
testifying on behalf of somebody else.
Nelson: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council. Not to take away from any of
the great points that you heard from Becky and Jason -- excuse me. Deborah Nelson.
601 West Bannock Street in Boise. I just wanted to add one additional comment for your
consideration when -- because there has been several questions about the Commission's
additional recommendations involving open space and parking and the common drives
and so as you, you know, digest all of the factual points and benefits that Becky and Jason
have described about -- about the site design the way that they have proposed it and the
way staff supported it and nobody opposed it, I also want you just to keep in mind the
legal context that the application before you is not a rezone and so, Council Member
Strader, I appreciate your comment that you guys are always trying to improve and really
everything you have said is additive; right? You're looking to -- to -- to add preference of
design features to --to be additive. But in this context where we are not seeking a rezone,
the standards that you apply are different and so this is already zoned for R-15 and if you
look at the criteria in your code for a subdivision, you know, it's important to note exactly
what you state in there for compliance with the code, that you need to confirm that the
plat is consistent with the UDC and as a point of comparison, if you have got something
-- for example, a conditional use permit, your -- your standards change and it says that
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you can require more restrictive standards than those generally required in this title and
so there is --there is just a point of differentiation here where we are not seeking anything
additional there. Now, we are --we are asking you to modify the development agreement
in a specific way and that is to reduce the density, so that we can get under that eight
units per acre. If we were asking -- you know, oftentimes applicants are coming in and
asking for a more intense development than is allowed in a development agreement. You
are asking to increase density. Here they are seeking to decrease density and decrease
intensity and so conditions of approval that are really targeted at further reduction of that
intensity don't relate to the type of request we have got before you for the development
agreement and so I -- again, this is just additional context for you to consider. I know
Council Member Borton isn't here tonight, but he often will reflect when we have got an
application before you where we are not seeking a rezone or a conditional use permit that
the standards are different when you are looking at it this way. So, Becky and Jason have
outlined the important site design constraints, you know, that we want you to take into
account the substance as well, but wanted you to have that context.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: I think we are well aware that -- of the situation. Deb, of the modification that you
are asking for. I think we are well aware of what -- what's on here.
Nelson: Mr. Mayor, Council Member Bernt, wonderful. Any questions for me?
Bernt: No.
Nelson: Thank you.
Simison: Mr. Clerk, do we have anyone signed up to testify?
Johnson: Mr. Mayor, we do not.
Simison: Okay. Is there anybody else who would like to provide testimony on this
application here or online? If you are online, please, use the raise your hand feature at
the bottom of the Zoom platform. We will just give this a second. Okay. Seeing no one
who has raised their hand or come forward to provide any testimony, would the applicant
like to make any final comments?
McKay: Mr. Mayor, just -- Becky McKay. Engineering Solutions. 1029 North Rosario. I
just want to make sure that the Council received my letter that I did provide to the city
clerk where we did ask for the modifications as Deb Nelson indicated for item -- allowing
us to have up to four units on -- on a common drive and, then, obviously, accepting the
parking that we show within our project being at a total of 428 spaces on-street and off-
street meets the UDC requirements -- exceeds the UDC requirements and that our open
space and internal pathways are acceptable. Thank you.
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Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Question for our clerk. Where is that letter located if-- I did not see it.
Johnson: Mr. Mayor, Councilman Cavener -- Becky, was that December -- December
17th?
McKay: Yes, sir.
Johnson: That is in the record of the project folder, the cc applicant's response to staff
report.
Cavener: Oh, there it is. Thank you. I missed that. Thank you.
McKay: And I will stand for any -- any subsequent questions. We think we have got a
great project. We are excited. We want to move forward and we would like the support
of the Council to -- to allow us to -- to get going. Thank you.
Simison: Council, any further comments for the applicant?
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Yeah. I guess just a comment. I get to share my view. I think we understand
the legal framework we are in. I -- I also look at the history here. You know, this -- this
property has been in discussions in the city since 2008 in multiple forms and I think our
expectations change over time and part of that's how we evolve and I guess I'm a little
surprised that something like the difference of three units on a common drive versus four
units on a common drive would be the thing that either of us would hang our hat on at the
end of the day, but I guess I'm just -- I'm a little surprised that I'm not hearing a little more
flexibility, that if there were some small changes, like the ones that I think were
recommended by Planning and Zoning, that--that that would be something that you guys
couldn't work with. It just surprises me. You know, a lot of folks come before us and I
rarely see -- not that it's not important, but I rarely see something of that magnitude that
inflexible.
Jarvis: Mayor, Council Member Strader, thank you. Hey, we -- we hear you. We have
tried -- we thought we came in with a great project, meeting above all of your other
requirements, which is kind of why we felt like -- and not -- and coming down in density.
So, we felt like we were --we were going above and beyond where we could have started
low, let you make comments and, then, come back with what we have proposed; right?
So, I completely understand that. If -- if -- if it -- it's Christmas, we would all like to go
home with an approval and I'm sure you guys would like to get out of here as well. If -- if
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we kept the stipulation to the three on the motor court as a gift from us, we would extend
that and be acceptable to that, because I know it's getting late and -- and, you know, we
would all like to move on as well. So, if that -- if that would help Council as well, we would
like to go ahead and throw that out there, because I -- we understand your point and we
don't want to seem like we are -- we are being thick headed or unreasonable as well.
Strader: Happy Holidays to you, too.
Hoaglun: Well, Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: I think we will probably want to have some discussion without closing the public
hearing and allow additional feedback if necessary. But one of the things that -- that
surprised me when I came on Council and that concept of whole subdivisions being
rentals and owned by a company, I was like what in the world and -- and we are all aware
of people who have a few rentals and they can be problem issues in the neighborhood.
So, I started researching these -- these types of facilities and whatnot. I was struck by
the fact that because they are in it to -- there is a bottom line and there are investors and
they look for a rate of return, that there is an expectation of certain things being done to
maintain that value. So, that was the surprise to me that going, oh, maybe this isn't such
a bad thing. You know, I prefer homeownership. I think that's the American way and in
value. So, I'm not so -- so, anti to these types of things like I was the first time around
and things like having the garages must be a place where you park. Councilman Bernt
is correct, I mean those places fill up and -- and I even have room and still try to have to
figure out, oh, I better clean this out. But -- so, having -- having people on site, having
that part of the lease agreement -- yeah, there will be people who try to get around that,
but at least there is something --something there. I would also agree with Council Woman
Strader. I'm not a fan of those -- those alley load units, but I also realize the trade-off for
that is on Daphne, then, you don't have that nice flow and ability to park and a nice look
and sidewalks without driveways. But, yeah, from --from how it looks standpoint and you
are driving down and we see all those vehicles down that thing, yeah, it's not very pretty.
It's not pretty at all. But, you know, I recognize the trade-off on that. I appreciate the fact
that they are willing to go to three. I think that's something we do need to tackle in our
code on what we allow. Six just -- and I can understand if they make it wide enough they
would have three on each side, but, wow, that's -- I think Councilman Cavener touched
on that, the difficulty that -- that poses there. So, I do like the layout. The micro paths
that are there. And thank you, Council Woman Strader, for pointing out that was hard to
see. It looked like there was one. It is narrower, but it does allow that continuity to go
through the units to the central plaza area. There is -- there is a lot of pros about this
development and the detail that went into it. We have seen worse, but also at the same
time whenever you are approving something that's really dense, it just -- it's -- it's dense
and it just kind of gives you that feeling -- I -- I wish there was more space. I wish we
could do this and that. But at the same time there is that factor of, okay, what's the price
point, how does this allow people to get into a home, have a place that is nice and they
enjoy in an area that's very nice and The Oaks is a nicely designed subdivision and it's a
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very large one. So, yeah, that's just my -- my -- my stream of thought as this process
unwound a little bit tonight and trying to figure out which way to go on this is there are just
things that are good and not so great about it, but are they things that necessitate denial,
but, then, where do you go from there in terms of how do you -- how do you fulfill the need
of housing in our community that meets all needs. So, there are some tough things to
hash out.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: I don't know if it's possible for either Alan or our clerk to pull up the site layout
that shows those pathways. As is -- as Becky was walking kind of through it -- again, I
was struck by the --the wide nice pathways where the single family homes are and, again,
those tightly packed pathways are where the density is and you almost would want to do
the inverse on that. Again, you have got all these people that are packed in, but maybe
want to give them more space -- to Council Member Hoaglun. They just -- it made me
feel a little bit -- almost kind of like -- like an airline, like we have got coach and we have
got first class and the first class, they get all the cool amenities and all the space and all
those in coach get packed in. I think there is always a really high threshold for denial, but
I'm not sold on what's before us and Council Member Hoaglun hit the nail on the head,
we deny this, you know, you come back with a higher density, you know, we don't always
know what the future is going to hold and so the other piece that I think is really important
I think for -- for the applicant and the public to hear is I take the recommendations from
our Planning Commission with high regard. I think our P&Z Commission is firing on all
cylinders and I get a little frustrated when our Planning and Zoning Commission makes
some recommendations -- and I'm not going to say they were ignored, but they felt a little
bit like they were ignored and, again, the applicant maybe feels like they had a better
mousetrap and that's why they didn't adhere to any of those recommendations. I think
it's important to note because our P&Z Commission -- at least right now is doing a really
really great job, that when they bring forth recommendations I definitely listen. I was
disappointed to not see any of that embraced in what came before us.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: If I might share my ah-ha moment with Council -- Councilman Cavener on the
pathways. I, too, was wondering why on the south side they couldn't have the same 15
foot -- you know, just -- they are trying to squeeze another unit in there. But my ah-ha
moment was it struck me that if -- with the Gem State Academy on that north side, you
are going to have more kids filling that up from the south -- from the south going north,
you are going to increase the number of students walking in that direction if they aren't
going to the elementary school to the east. So, that was my thinking was, oh, okay, that
makes sense, because you are going to add kids as you are going to the -- to the north
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and, therefore, you better have wider paths, because you are going to have a lot of kids
going in that direction. If that helps.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: You know, I -- I think it is an improvement on -- on what this was previously
approved to be in the sense that, you know, I don't think that multi-family and self storage
is a better use of this property. But that being said, you know, things are evolving. I like
in general the direction it's going. I -- personally I -- to get on board with it I really want a
limitation to the three units on the common drive and I would like to see those pathways
from the southern portion of the property with the townhomes where they are five feet
wide, widened to at least, you know, what the ones in that top level are at. It doesn't have
to be the 15 foot, but seven feet or ten feet -- something where a parent would feel
comfortable watching their kid go down that pathway and I think -- I think we should
support the Planning and Zoning Commission as well. I think that their recommendations
didn't come out of nowhere. I think they were good recommendations and I -- and I want
to support them there as well. You know, it's -- it's -- I understand what the letter of the
UDC code says, but we are really heading to a higher standard here and I think these are
small changes in the context of a massive development personally. So, I appreciated the
overture on three per common drive. I think if we could widen these pathways slightly I
can get on board.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: I -- if Becky could answer that question -- I heard her -- heard Becky say that
the farthest south pathways were ten feet wide, five feet on each side, but I would like her
to clarify those -- the width of those pathways again. I didn't think they were five feet. I
think that was the sidewalk. But I -- I may not have understood that correctly.
Simison: Well, while she's getting her stuff, I recall it being five feet, with five feet on either
side of the pathway to -- for a total span of 15 feet on the southern most portion. In that
area. But she's there. I will let her speak.
McKay: Mr. Mayor, so --
Johnson: That's on Alan's screen. That's why you are not able to move it.
McKay: Oh, that's Alan screen. Okay. I thought it was me.
Tiefenbach: Would you like me to unshare that, Council?
Cavener: Only if Becky needs --
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McKay: Can I point? I guess I can't point if --
Tiefenbach: I have to -- I have to stop this screen if you want to do that.
McKay: Yes.
Tiefenbach: Yes?
McKay: Yes.
Johnson: I will have to go bring yours back up then. One moment.
Cavener: Can she draw on it?
McKay: I don't think so.
Johnson: It's possible, but cumbersome.
Simison: While we are waiting for this, Becky, just one -- one of my comments kind of
goes back to something Councilman Cavener talked about earlier and I don't know the
possibility or the practicality, but when I look at the plat I see the two small common areas
both on the east and west side, one on the entrance, the one on the left-hand side, and I
-- you know, I understand you have to deal -- you are dealing with it. Is there any way
that those two could be combined into something in the middle of the lower portion to
provide --
McKay: Yes. Mr. Mayor, that was going to be my recommendation, that -- that we
consolidate, instead of -- instead of having the two independent pathways, that we
consolidate the pathway and, then, have a -- and, then, have a wider area, because we
-- we have -- we have two, four, six pathways that go through that block, lead into the
MEW, lead up to Daphne to the north. So, we will -- we can shift over and, then, combine
those into a wider, more pedestrian friendly pathway if the Commission is concerned. So,
just to kind of give you -- am I going to lose the arrow. There we go. So, this -- this
pathway is 30 feet in width. I mean not the pathway itself, the lot is 30 feet in width. The
pathway itself is five. This pathway here is 15 feet in width with a five foot pathway. That's
the minimum in your code. We have to have a minimum of five foot of landscaping on
each side of a five foot pathway. I have another pathway that is kind of hard for you guys
to see. It's right here. So, it lines up straight with these and, then, we go up to the school
there. I have a pathway that comes out here. We have another common area where we
can have a pathway here and a pathway here. So, the ones -- if we take these two
pathways here, these two pathways, and we combine them into one and we take these
and make a larger area -- because, see, I have landscaping on the end blocks that I can
shift over, we did that just so we would have a nice curb appeal. So, I could shift some
of that here and, then, consolidate that pathway if that is the Council's wishes and I think
-- I think that would obviously help, because it's kind of hard -- yeah -- to see at this size.
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Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Alongside that, Becky -- I like the analogy about Christmas and all of that.
have got maybe ghost of Council Members past in my ear. Council Member Milam. At
that point maybe where those pathways are --where it meets the MEW, putting some sort
of recreational kids activity -- again, whether it's a -- you had mentioned that that might
be of interest earlier, maybe relocating one of the three down there. So, whether it's a
play structure, a swing set, or some --
McKay: Activity.
Cavener: -- activity for those that are using skateboards or rollerblades I think would
make a lot of sense.
McKay: Yes, sir. He is -- the applicant is agreeable.
Simison: Council, further questions, comments, motions?
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Cavener -- or Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: So, what Councilman Cavener was just asking about and they have agreed to
is -- is an activity structure of some sort. Was it at the intersection of the MEW and -- and
one of the -- or somewhere along the MEW was what we are doing? And it sounds like
to me Council is -- and the applicant has agreed to no more than three units on a common
drive. Did I hear that correctly? That the pathways on the -- the two pathways on the
most southern side of the development would be widened to 15 feet; is that correct? No?
Because they are already five, five, and five --
Simison: Councilman Cavener --
Hoaglun: -- or was it 20?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun, they are already 15 feet. They are talking about
combining them into one. So, there would only be one path.
Hoaglun: That's right. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. The -- the other thing that we -- we have
talked about the additional parking. I don't see what -- anything is going to happen with
that. They -- we have -- we have approved some with a lot less. And, again, to the point
of where they have in their lease agreement that the garages are to be used for parking
the cars, not -- not storage helps. And the open space, I think with these changes that
we have talked about helping that open space. Was there -- was there anything that --
that's missing if we move forward with this?
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Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: So, I think if I'm understanding correctly, the two small 15 foot in totality pathways
would be combined in that southern most block of townhomes to be 30 feet. If I
understood that correctly.
Simison: Minimum. And there is also discussion about perhaps incorporating some of
the end cap landscaping to maximize it even further if necessary, especially if you are
going to put an amenity in there, but that is what seemed to be shared, yes.
Hoaglun: So, Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: I just want to make sure I understand that pathway. What Becky -- I understood
Becky to say was they could push those developments out a little bit, go off into the end
cap landscaping and, then, widen those pathways and I thought that it would keep both
of them, but you are saying it combined into one. Okay. Okay. Got it. All right. Anything
else that we might have missed? Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: I would move that we close the public hearing on -- it just disappeared on me.
Where are --
Cavener: Number four. Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman --
Hoaglun: In number four. Yeah. I can't find it now.
Cavener: I will back -- I will back up Councilman Hoaglun --
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: -- if I may. Mr. Mayor, I move we closed the item on No. 4, public hearing for
Oakwind Estate Subdivision, Item No. H-2020-0093.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor, I would second the motion.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to close public hearing. Is there any discussion
on the motion? If not, all those in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay. The ayes
have it. The public hearing is closed.
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MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. TWO ABSENT.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Thanks to the applicants. Appreciate the dialogue, the back and forth. You
sharing some of your perspective as to some of the whys. It was a good education at
least for me tonight. I appreciate that. Appreciate you working with us to build a better
project, one that I think is going to sit really well with your already existing neighborhood.
So, with that, Mr. Mayor, I move that we approve Item 4 -- or No. 4, excuse me, Item H-
2020-0093, include all staff and applicant testimony, with provisions related to the
reduction of no more than three units on a common drive, a combining of the two southerly
pathways into one larger pathway and to establish a recreation amenity at the intersection
of the MEW and the pathway.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor, I second the motion.
Simison: I have a motion and a second. Is there any discussion on the motion?
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Do we need to specify that the combined pathway will be at least a certain width
or -- if it looked to planning staff on whether we should specify that as 30 feet or some
minimum or if it -- or if that matters.
Tiefenbach: Council Person Strader, Members of the Council, I think it would be very
helpful for staff, especially when we are putting together our findings, to how the actual
-- a width. It's very difficult for us otherwise to be kind of ambiguous about this. So, it
would be much appreciated, ma'am. Thank you.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Cavener: My apologies. My apologies. I figured it had been captured in the -- in the
testimony. But with that case I would like to amend my motion to include that southern
combined pathway be a minimum of 30 feet in width. The lot of the pathway be a minimum
of 30 feet wide.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor, second agrees.
Simison: Okay. I have a motion with the second agreeing. Is there any further discussion
on the motion as amended by the maker and the seconder? If not, clerk will call the roll.
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Roll call: Bernt, yea; Borton, absent; Cavener, yea; Hoaglun, yea; Strader, yea; Perreault,
absent.
Simison: All ayes. Motion carries. The item is agreed to.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. TWO ABSENT.
Simison: And we are going to take a ten minute recess. We will reconvene at 8:15.
(Recess: 8:06 p.m. to 8:17 p.m.)
5. Public Hearing for 2810 E. Franklin Rd. (H-2020-0097) by KM
Engineering, Located at 2810 E. Franklin Rd.
A. Request: Annexation of 1.01 acres of land with a C-G zoning district.
Simison: Council, we will go ahead and come out of recess and we will move on to the
next item this evening, which is a public hearing for H-2020-0097. We will open this public
hearing with staff comments. I will turn it over to Sonya.
Allen: Good evening, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council. The next application before
you is a request for annexation and zoning. This site consists of 1.01 acres of land. It's
zoned RUT in Ada county and is located at 2810 East Franklin Road. The Comprehensive
Plan future land use map designation is commercial. The applicant is proposing to annex
1.01 acres of land in the C-G zoning district, consistent with the associated future land
use map designation of commercial. A conceptual development plan is proposed that
depicts the existing residential home on the property that the applicant proposes to
remodel and expand for a flex space use. The concept plan depicts a 2,239 square foot
of office on the first floor and 1 ,550 square feet of office and support uses in the basement
of the existing structure and a new 2,600 square foot structure for a warehouse. The new
structure is proposed to the north behind the existing structure and will include a daylight
basement. The user will be an automotive tool and equipment supplier, classified as a
flex space use. The business proposes to sell products online to automotive businesses
and at home mechanics and will not end up with any retail sales on the site. Flex space
is a principal permitted use in the C-G zoning district, subject to the specific use standards
listed in UDC 11-4-3-18. The proposed use and site design complies with these
standards. The topography of the site slopes down significantly from Franklin Road to
the north property boundary and has approximately a 20 foot grade difference as shown
on the grading plan. A retaining wall is proposed at the north and west boundaries of the
area proposed to be improved with this project. A 35 foot wide street buffer is required
with development along Franklin Road, an entryway corridor, landscaped per the
standards in UDC 11-3B-7C. The existing driveway access via Franklin Road is proposed
to remain for access to the site and has been approved by ACHD. Because it closely
aligns with the driveway on the south side of Franklin Road, relocation of the driveway is
not recommended. The UDC requires cross-access, ingress-egress easements to be
granted to adjoining properties where access to a local street is not available, unless
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otherwise waived by City Council. In accord with this standard, staff recommends cross-
access easements are provided and driveways constructed to the properties to the east
and west. A 20 foot wide cross-access easement is depicted on the concept plan to the
east and west, but the applicant requests Council approval of a waiver to this requirement
to not provide cross-access easements due to the topography of the site and site
constraints related to the space available for development. At a minimum staff
recommends Council require cross-access to the west. However, it should be noted that
staff did contact Ada county to see if a cross-access easement was provided to the subject
property with redevelopment of the adjacent property to the west back in 2002. But one
was not. There still may be an opportunity in the future, though, to get a cross-access
easement. A minimum of 12 vehicle spaces, based on 6,389 square feet, and one bicycle
space is required. A total of 13 spaces are depicted on the concept plan, including an
ADA accessible space, which is one more than required. However, if cross-access
driveways are provided to adjacent properties as required, parking will be reduced by up
to three spaces, which will result in parking below the required minimum standard. If a
waiver is not approved by Council --
Simison: Sonya, we lost you.
Allen: -- five foot wide perimeter landscape buffer adjacent to parking, loading, or other
paved vehicular use areas.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Sonya.
Allen: Landscape per the standards --
Simison: Sonya.
Allen: Yes.
Simison: We lost you for probably about 30 seconds.
Allen: Fabulous. Do you know where I left off? Where you left off hearing me? Mr.
Mayor, can you hear me?
Simison: Yeah, we did. We heard 12 vehicle spaces -- 12, 13 space are depicted on the
conceptual --
Cavener: I think she was right at the Snider Lateral piece. I think either the parking lot
landscaping piece is probably where she dropped off.
Allen- So, I was saying that if cross-access driveways are provided that this property
required, parking will be reduced by up to three spaces, which will result in parking below
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the required minimum standards. If a waiver is not approved by Council to the
requirement for cross-access, the app --
Simison: We just lost you again.
Allen: -- or other paved vehicular --
Simison: Sonya, we lost you again. It was a hard drop.
Allen: Oh, sorry.
Cavener: I think it was right after she said not approved by Council.
Simison: Yeah. Right after not approved by Council, then, you dropped.
Allen: Would you prefer I continuing and try again or would you like me to try calling in
on my cell?
Simison: Try -- keep -- keep going, because other times --
Allen: Okay.
Simison: -- you are sounding great, it just was a hard drop. It doesn't make any sense.
Allen: I'm so sorry. All right. If-- if a waiver is not approved by Council to the requirement
for cross-access, the applicant should consider constructing a smaller addition to reduce
the parking requirement. Parking lot landscaping is required to be provided in accord with
UDC standards, which requires a minimum five foot wide perimeter landscape buffer
adjacent to parking, loading, or other behavior paved vehicular use areas, landscaped for
standards in the UDC. A retaining wall and fence is proposed along the west boundary
adjacent to the parallel parking spaces where the buffer is required, which doesn't leave
adequate area for landscaping. If the site cannot be reconfigured to comply with the
standard, alternative compliance may be requested with a certificate of zoning
compliance application. The Snider Lateral exists in a 40 foot wide easement on the
northern portion of the property that is not proposed to be improved. All irrigation laterals
are required to be piped unless improved as a water amenity or linear open space. City
Council may waive this requirement if it finds public purpose requiring such will not be
served and public safety can be preserved. The applicant proposes to fence off the area
where the lateral is located to preserve public safety and request a Council waiver to this
requirement to allow the lateral to remain open. Because a large portion of the site on
the north end is not proposed to be improved, staff recommends it regularly maintained
in this area, so as not to create a nuisance and -- and in a manner that prevents wildfire
in accord with Meridian City Code 4-2. Conceptual building elevations were submitted
for the remodel of the existing structure and proposed addition as shown. The materials
for the front facade and sides of the existing building consists of stucco, with prefinished
metal siding and stone veneer accents. The materials for the proposed warehouse
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addition consist of a mix of horizontal and vertical metal siding. All improvements to the
existing structure and new construction are required to comply with the design standards
listed in the architectural standards manual. The Commission recommended approval of
the subject annexation. Summary of the Commission hearing. Stephanie Leonard, KM
Engineering, the applicant's representative, testified in favor. No one testified in
opposition or commented. Written testimony was, again, received by the applicant
Stephanie Leonard and key issues of discussion by the Commission -- they were in favor
of the proposed improvements to the existing structure and use and the adequacy of the
proposed parking in relation to the square footage of office use proposed was a concern.
Commission did not make any changes to the staff recommendation and written
testimony since the Commission hearing was received from Stephanie Leonard, KM
Engineering, the applicant's representative and, again, the applicant requests Council
waivers to the UDC requirements for cross-access and ingress-egress easements to be
granted to the adjacent properties to the east and west and for the Snider Lateral on the
northern portion of the site to remain open and not be piped. If Council approves these
requests, conditions A-1-B and A-1-C in Section 9 should be modified accordingly. Staff
will stand for any questions.
Simison: Thank you, Sonya. Council, any questions?
Cavener: Sounds great.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Just a quick question. The grading kind of threw me and I know we have some
flood areas here. Is this in a flood area? A floodplain?
Allen: I don't believe it is, Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: And I guess just -- it looks like the grading and everything is fine. You don't
consider that there is any kind of an issue with the way that it's currently outlined?
Allen: The City of Meridian does not require a grading permit and planning does not
review that, so that should be handled by their engineer to ensure there is no grade -- or
there is no drainage issues.
Strader: Buyer beware. Thanks, Sonya.
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Simison: Council, any additional questions for staff? Okay. We will turn this over to the
applicant's representative. State your name and address for the record and be
recognized for 15 minutes.
Leonard: Okay. Hopefully you can hear me now. I couldn't find which screen I was on
there. Okay. Well, Sonya did a fantastic job covering the project, so I won't be too lengthy
with our presentation. We are requesting -- hopefully you can see -- sorry. Okay. So, we
are requesting to annex this property into the City of Meridian. It's about an acre of land.
It's located west of Eagle Road and north of Franklin Road. We are adjacent to several
properties that have already been annexed and zoned into the City of Meridian. As you
can see, we have got a fair amount of light industrial to the north and, then, some general
service commercial to the east and community business district to the south. There are
some Ada county parcels that surround us, but the ones that are directly adjacent to the
west are used for industrial uses and commercial uses and so our request is to annex
into the city with the zoning district of C-G is consistent with the existing development and
what the Comprehensive Plan calls for in the area, which is commercial. This is our
conceptual site plan. We did make revisions before the Planning and Zoning Commission
the last go around to move a parking space out of the 35 foot landscape buffer that's
shown on the south part of the site adjacent to Franklin Road. Otherwise, we are in
compliance with the number of parking spaces that are required. As Sonya mentioned,
we are proposing to expand upon an existing structure, so we will be renovating that,
obviously, with new building materials and, then, adding a building addition to the south
part of the site for 2,600 square feet of additional warehouse space. Our applicant -- or
our client is a -- an automotive and online tool equipment supplier and they are proposing
to use the site as a flex space to accommodate warehouse and office space for their
building -- or for their business. So, that is primarily -- the warehouse space will be for
the tools and other items that they sell online and, then, the existing structure that's going
to be renovated is for employees and when they have the occasional person stop by that
needs to do business with them, so -- building elevations, as Sonya mentioned, will
include a variety of materials. We are including stone veneer and stucco. We have metal
included as well. The east elevation will be one of the site elevations and, then, the
elevation on this -- on the bottom part is actually the north elevation, so they will be facing
away from Franklin Road. The west elevation is another site elevation and for Council
Woman Strader that kind of depicts the grading a little bit, which there is a fair amount of
on the site. Of course, our engineers will be making sure that drainage is adequately
accommodated and that the building is, obviously, able to be on the site in a structural
sound way.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Leonard: The bottom elevation --
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor? Sorry, Stephanie. Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
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Hoaglun: The slides aren't -- the slides aren't moving for -- obviously you are referencing
some slides that I'm not seeing. I have your first slide up, but it's not -- there we go.
Leonard: Oh, really? Okay. Let me try to -- I was having some difficulty getting it to share
it first. Let me try to see if I can --
Simison: And, Stephanie, after you are done if you could state your -- state your name
and address for the record at the conclusion of your comments.
Leonard: Of course. I was so excited. Sorry.
Johnson: And, Mr. Mayor -- Stephanie, I think you are -- when you are sharing screen
you are sharing the actual PowerPoint edit, not this -- not the presentation mode.
Leonard: I just made that change. Thank you, Chris.
Johnson: You're welcome.
Leonard: Hopefully this will work. Are you seeing the changing of the slides?
Hoaglun: No, not --
Leonard: Okay. Hold on just a second. Not working?
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor, Stephanie, I --yes. It's different. We are not seeing it in presentation
mode. We see the slide -- your title slide and, then, we actually see the next slide smaller
that's coming up.
Leonard: Okay.
Johnson: Mr. Mayor. Stephanie --
Leonard: Sorry. I have three screens open, so I think it's having a hard time picking which
one.
Johnson: I'm bringing it up for you here, Stephanie. If you just tell me where to go I will
drive.
Leonard: Thank you, Chris. Okay. So, Stephanie Leonard with KM Engineering. I'm
representing the applicant and our client on this project. As I mentioned, we are
consistent with other uses and zoning districts that are adjacent to us. Go ahead and go
to the next slide, Chris. This is our conceptual site plan. Kind of went through this. But
as you can see we are accommodating an existing building and the site is fairly
constrained as far as the grading that I mentioned and, then, also just kind of working
around an existing building with the parking requirements, drive aisle requirements and
trash enclosure requirements that are -- that reviewing agencies require for the site. So,
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kind of a little bit of a funky drive aisle and, then, making everything fit was a little bit of a
challenge. Next slide, please. These are our building elevations. This -- as you can see
we kind of have a mix of colors. Or, actually, I'm sorry, Sonya showed a mix of colors that
we recently revised. This -- this version has kind of a mix of materials that we are
proposing. We have got stone veneer, stucco, and metal siding, both horizontal and
vertical, is proposed. We are proposing one loading bay on the back of the property. So,
that will be the north elevation facing away from Franklin Road. If you can go to the next
one, Chris. The bottom -- the bottom elevation shown here is what folks from Franklin
Road will see. So, that will be a decorative and -- and a vast improvement on the existing
home that's actually on the site. So, that is what we are proposing as far as building
elevations and, of course, if this project is approved we will be required to go through the
certificate of zoning compliance and design review, as Sonya mentioned. The flex use is
a principal permitted use in this zone. So, that will be our next step. So, next slide,
please. As Sonya mentioned, we are requesting a couple of waivers to requirements just
due to the site constraints that are on the site and just kind of the natural -- the elements
that are present here. So, the -- the first waive we are requesting is to omit staff condition
to provide easements and to construct cross-access driveways to the east and west. As
you -- as we have talked about briefly, the site does have a fair amount of slope. So, that
would require grading and retention, which we are already providing a grading and
retention wall to the north. You can see there is kind of a double hatched line at the top.
That's our retention wall and if I remember correctly it's like an eight foot wall and, then,
we are providing a little bit of that wall, too, on the west side. So, that's kind of right along
with a vegetative boundary is to the property of the west. Construction of that driveway
to the west would include like a -- I think it's like a five foot drop off to the property to the
west, which would, essentially, be a driveway kind of to nowhere, since that property
doesn't currently have an easily accessible way to get over there and doesn't have a
requirement to have any kind of cross-access. The property to the east has a similar
situation and challenge. That property actually is annexed and zoned into the city as well
and I don't -- I wasn't able to find any requirement that they had to provide cross-access
there, so that would eliminate several parking spaces, as Sonya mentioned, and would
also likely be a driveway that may not ever be connected in the future. So, you know,
with that we respectfully request that that requirement is waived for this site in particular,
just due to the site constraints and -- and kind of the situation we are working with around
-- working on the existing building. Next slide, please, Chris. So, the next waiver that we
would like to request is to leave the Snider Lateral open. Typically the UDC requires that
you cover or pipe any existing laterals. In this case we feel that it's got a fair amount of
vegetation around it and we would like to leave it as an amenity for the site and leave it
in its natural state, so that we can just -- to keep it the way it is, essentially. So, the
retaining wall and fence that Sonya mentioned will provide a barrier to that lateral, so it
will keep the public safe and will make it so that it's inaccessible from our site anyway.
So, as Sonya mentioned it is located within a 40 foot easement, so that would also keep
it free from any kind of built structure or -- or fence or anything like that. So, I guess next
slide, please, Chris. With that we feel that this proposed use is very consistent with the
area. I think that the remodeled house and addition to the building will be an improvement
and will really elevate the properties in the area and provide another commercial
opportunity to this growing part of Meridian. It's really close to major transportation
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corridors and will be easily accessible and the C-G zoning district I think would be in the
best interest of the city for this property and specifically this project. So, we are in
agreement with the staff report, with the exception of the conditions that I mentioned for
the waivers that we are requesting and with that I will stand for any questions. Thank
you.
Simison: Thank you, Stephanie. Council, any questions? Seeing no questions. This is
a public hearing. We have nobody in the room. Is there anybody who signed up to testify
online, Mr. Clerk?
Johnson: Mr. Mayor, there was nobody signed up.
Simison: Okay. If there is anybody that would like to testify on this item that's waiting, if
you can, please, indicate so by using the raise your hand feature and we will bring you
in. I don't think that's going to be the case. I see no one raising their hand or coming
forward. Stephanie, would you like to make any final comments?
Leonard: No. I thank you for hearing me tonight and for dealing with the technical
difficulties of the presentation. Yeah, I guess I will just stand with what I said before.
think this will be a great project for the City of Meridian and we are excited for our applicant
to grow his business here. So, thank you.
Simison: Thank you. So, my question for Mr. Nary that -- well, I guess it's for Mr. Nary.
don't know. But when you -- when you have a project come forward that essentially says
we are not going to have any customers, but this building could be sold to somebody else
as soon as it's built, how -- since we have no business licensing, is there any process by
which that this would ever be reviewed or determined that a business that now wants
customers or didn't want customers would have access?
Nary: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, that's a great question. I mean certainly the
problem is is you could put in a provision in the development agreement that any business
located in the site would have to be of similar nature, without on-site customers and things
like that, and if they wanted to have that they would have to come back, that would be
one check. The problem would be if the access may not be available then. There may
not be a way to make cross-access at that point in time, because of changed
circumstances, buildings, whatever gets built on site or on the adjacent property, because
there is no cross-access. So, it is -- it is a little problematic that it's -- as you stated,
because not only could it get built and sold, it could get sold without being built and so,
again, you would have, essentially, a landlocked parcel without cross-access. It is
problematic. I would agree.
Simison: Thank you.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
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Strader: Maybe a follow up for Mr. Nary. Is it possible to require access and not exercise
it? Like is it possible to reserve an access and then -- and, then, just not require that it
be implemented?
Nary: So, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Strader, great question
as well. We have on occasion -- I don't know of the adjoining parcel if it already has a
requirement for cross-access currently. What happens in a majority of these -- we will
require the property, such as this one, preserve the cross-access easement area, but not
construct it until the other side gets built and so I don't know -- and I didn't hear from
Sonya if it's already required on the adjacent property, since that's already annexed into
the city, because their -- their trigger is this cross-access getting built. Otherwise, they
have reserved the space as well. But that would be a question to Sonya.
Allen: Mr. Mayor, Mr. Nary, the property to the west of this is actually in Ada county and
they did not require a cross-access easement to this property with development back in
2002. The only -- the only issue I would note with -- if you require an easement, but don't
require it to be constructed is it's fairly impossible or very difficult in the future to get it
constructed if we don't require it to be constructed now with development. Thank you.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: So, maybe a quick follow up for Sonya there. Would it be possible to require it
if the -- if the property in Ada county tried to be annexed into the city at that time as a part
of that application, the property to the west? Could we require them to do it at that time?
Allen: Mr. Mayor, Council Woman Strader, absolutely. That -- that is when we could
obtain that.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor, question for Sonya.
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Sonya, under that scenario we require the applicant to reserve easements and
with -- with the thought that to the west someday that might be coming into our -- our area
and we can require that. But the parking requirements, if there is parking there, which
recall there is some spaces there and that goes away and, then, they fall under the limit
and -- but they are already stuck. Everything's built. How do we handle that? Any ideas
there?
Allen: Mr. Mayor, Councilman Hoaglun, yeah, it's -- it's just a -- it's a difficult situation. If
it's -- it's difficult to come back to this property owner and ask them to pay money to, you
know, construct and pave a driveway to the adjacent property and it would make their
parking nonconforming.
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Hoaglun: And, Mr. Mayor, just --
Simison: Councilman -- Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: It's -- it's -- I'm pleased to see that someone is able to use this difficult property,
a sloping lot, that, you know, it's not level and to be able to fully use it. So, it's kind of like,
hey, that's a great idea to -- to go down and do what they are doing. So, it's kind of -- I'm
kind of on the fence about that, which is another issue if you don't pipe, so --
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Maybe a question for the applicant. Would it be preferable to have to build it
now to nowhere or would it be preferable from your perspective to have that be an
easement that exists and, then, the development of the future property might trigger it at
that time?
Leonard: Thank you, Mayor -- Mr. Mayor, Council Woman Strader. I think in my opinion
-- I can't speak for our client fully. I don't know that -- I think that a future building of it
would be preferred. Obviously, we would be more than happy to provide the cross-access
easement at this point, knowing that in the future that it could be developed. I think it just
-- it would make more sense if we had kind of a collaborative effort between the property
owner to the west to make sure that it was a driveway that was going to be utilized and
improved at a time in which it would be used. Does that make sense? Rather than having
a driveway that might age for who knows how long. Thank you.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: My concern is -- is by leaving the easement there without construction, it would be
very difficult to come back and require that construction process to happen, if impossible,
only because we don't have the means to look over that or to be a part of that
conversation, unless the property owner to the west, you know, comes to us requesting,
I guess, would be the only way that we would ever do that and so in these scenarios it's
-- it's almost best to do what's needed right now, knowing that in the future it's likely that
that property to the west will be annexed and at that time it will be an easy opportunity for
-- and we could use that--that annexation as an opportunity to make them use that cross-
connection at that time as well. So, those properties are connected. So, that would --
that would be my opinion on that issue. As my mask keeps falling down.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
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Strader: Sorry, Treg. At least on the -- over Zoom I lost you a little bit. I think -- I think I
followed what you were saying. So, if we -- so, I guess if -- if we preserve the cross-
access easements -- just the easements and don't require the construction, I get it, it's
not going to happen, but, then, that would allow the property to the west, if they come
annex into the city, at least that easement would be there, so they would be able to
construct something. Am I tracking? Is that what you were saying, too, or was it not --
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: To a -- to a certain degree, yes. There is just one spot that -- that you -- that we
-- that I may have made not clear enough, but -- so, yes, that could happen. But, then,
the -- this -- this property owner legally wouldn't have -- he -- that -- the property wouldn't
have to make that connection unless they were good neighbors and I'm assuming that
they are good neighbors and are great people, but they certainly wouldn't be forced to. It
would be a gesture on their part to make it happen. I could be wrong on that. Maybe Mr.
Nary could clarify, but --
Nary: So -- Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Yes, Mr. Nary.
Nary: Mr. Mayor, Members of Council, Council Member Strader, so here is what you
could consider doing. If you are not going to require them to construct the access today,
is we haven't done this before, so this is a completely new idea, but one of the problems
with these types of easements that don't get constructed is that nobody remembers they
are there and so they put parking spaces there and they park other things there, they put
a building there, they do other stuff. So, one thing we have never put into a development
agreement, but you could require -- if you are not going to require construction -- is that
they have to put up a Jersey barrier there where that is. Just like ACHD does when they
put in easements for roadways they put in a Jersey barrier that says this road will be
constructed in the future. So, it's notice to the world that something's going to go here at
some point in time. You could require that without construction. Mr. Bernt is correct that
in the future when the future property owner wants cross-access you are going to require
that property to construct it at that time. To enforce your development agreement, you
are going to -- if they aren't willingly do it or they can't afford it or don't want to or whatever
the reason is in the future, you do have a contract -- I mean you can sue them for
compliance with your development agreement. It is a contract with the property owner
that must be complied with. So, there is a mechanism to do it. It's not easy or simple.
You know, again, one of the problems with future development agreement conditions that
aren't tied to a permit or tied to building permits or some other function that the city is
involved with, is someone has to come and tell us that it's not there and that it's supposed
to be there. So, there is some clunkiness to it and -- and, again, I don't know if the Jersey
barrier idea is -- is worthwhile, but it is a way to at least mark that something's there,
because that's exactly what happens is people have no idea that it's there, they didn't
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read their CC&Rs, they didn't read the title report, they don't realize it's there and, then,
they don't want to do it and they don't realize they have to do it.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: If Chris could put that sitemap back up, I have some questions for the applicant.
In my notes I have got down that to the west there would be a five foot retaining wall,
because due to elevation change. I want to know if that's correct and I also want to see
exactly where that easement is going and what parking spaces are there. I'm intrigued
by Mr. Nary's idea, but I just need to look more into the details. And, Stephanie, if you
could -- once that is up kind of talk us through that -- what -- what exists there to the west
and if that -- it looks like it's all paved and that sort of thing. Can you let me know?
Leonard: Sure. Mr. Mayor, Councilman Hoaglun, we created -- I may try to share my
screen again. But we created a grading exhibit to kind of show exactly how that grade
changes, but roughly -- sorry. See, if I can give it a shot. It was -- it was also the -- the
fifth slide of our PowerPoint, too, if -- my screen doesn't end up showing, but -- so, there
is a contour that's like -- does anyone see my screen?
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor, Stephanie, I can see it. It's not full presentation mode, but I can see
it.
Leonard: Okay. Let me -- I'm going to turn off my webcam and see if that's going to be
the issue, because I feel like it is.
Hoaglun: And there we go.
Leonard: Okay. So, you don't get to see me anymore, but I can actually see the screen.
So, apologies on that. So, as you can see there is a line here that says the existing
adjacent grade is at 2,643 and, then, there is another line that's at 2,648. If we were to
construct--you can see it a little bit. Construct the beginning of the driveway on the arrow
that's further east, that would start at 2,648 and, then, it would go down to 2,643 when it
got to the west property line at -- at that point in the site. I think the grade, as Sonya
mentioned, it gets worse as you go north. If you look kind of further south it's not quite as
bad, but the -- I think the point being, really, is that we have got a retaining wall that we
are planning that's kind of along that entire boundary and, then, along the north side of
the site that would be changed and as a result the engineering of the site would change
as well. We also are providing -- we have one extra parking space, but we would be
required to provide that cross-access driveway. It would eliminate one of those to the
west. If we were to be required to provide it to the east it would eliminate potentially three
to four parking spaces, which would put us in -- out of compliance with what the code
requires. So, hopefully, that kind of shows the situation. One thing I would like to note,
too, is that if that property to the west came in -- so, they are currently in the county right
now. If they were to annex and go through a similar process to what we are right now,
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they could potentially be required to do a cross-access easement at that time as well and,
then, you know, as -- as Bill was mentioning maybe there could be some kind of condition
in the development agreement that would be required at that time to require construction
of the driveway in a way that would be -- I guess work for both sides. Hopefully I answered
all your questions.
Allen: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Yes, Sonya.
Allen: Perhaps another option would be to require this property owner to grant an
easement for construction of that driveway. That might be a consideration through the
development agreement. Or part of the cross-access easement. Thank you.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Maybe to follow up for Sonya. So, by using that distinction -- so, providing a
construction access easement, if I'm understanding, then, the applicant here is allowing
for construction to happen in the future and, then, the property to the west is paying for it.
Is that the distinction with what you are proposing?
Allen: It is. I'm not sure it's a great idea, Mr. Mayor, Council Woman Strader, but it's a
consideration. It still doesn't change the fact that if -- if we require a cross-access to be
granted that it will likely put the parking below the minimum standards and create a
nonconforming parking situation, so -- you know, Council just needs to I guess determine
if it makes sense to approve a waiver to that requirement in this instance.
Strader: Thank you.
Allen: Thank you.
Hoaglun: And Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Yeah. Just --just thinking -- trying to think ahead to the future, we could require
that--that a construction easement be placed into this and, then, when that other property
looks to be annexed and -- and come into Meridian's jurisdiction, it could be a future
council deciding that and they may not want to foot the construction bill to bring it up to
grade to make that cross-access easement and the property owners, then, to the east,
wherever that is, would say, hey, you are taking away parking spaces, we will fall under
-- it just -- everything keeps kind of getting -- getting complicated and while I like cross-
access agreements, I don't know if they -- in this situation may not work and I would like
to see full use of this property, because it's -- it's a difficult property to -- to have full use
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because of the grading of it. So, I'm inclined to lean towards that exception providing the
waiver for cross-access, but others may not.
Simison: The thing that I keep coming back to -- at least from the standpoint on all -- how
do you solve this for this -- I -- to me it's something like Dashwood, you know, you can --
you can put up something that says it's going to be a cross-access, they are expected to
be continued in the future, circumstances of the next property are going to probably
dictate whether or not that's even a possibility or not or even what's here at that point in
time, more than anything else. That doesn't resolve anything great. This is on -- this is
near an intersection of, you know, major state highway and a five lane roadway. Cross-
access would seem to make a lot of sense. If you think people are going to go from one
business to the next. If they are not going to be going from this business to the adjacent
businesses, more than likely, then, cross-access doesn't seem to provide a lot of benefit.
It's not like you are going from a bank to a gas station or from something. So, I think --
you know. But you got to look long term sometimes and not just what's there today and I
have -- so, it's not a -- it's not a great -- I mean we could probably talk about this for
another hour easily.
Hoaglun: Well, Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Maybe the answer is requiring that construction easement and what happens
in the future happens, but at least it's there and provides notice that action is to be taken
-- some determination has to be made and we just don't throw in the towel, but have it --
have something in place that a future decision will have to be made. I would love to have
cross-access to all the properties. You're right, it's Franklin Road, but it's not like it's all
retail establishment, medical facilities, those types of things that we typically see. This is
commercial, but even commercial sometimes can -- can benefit from it, but this is a little
more challenging with the topography.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: I kind of want to defer to some of my fellow Councilmen that have been on the
Council a bit longer as to what would work best. Maybe Councilman Bernt has a
perspective for their comments. Seems tough. Maybe we go with the construction access
easement and -- on the west and -- and give them a parking exception. I'm not sure that
it works as well to the east. It appears to impact parking much worse and I think it's a
worse transition it seems like. So, I would be okay with that. If that works for the rest of
the group.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
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Bernt: I have been called out.
Strader: Sorry. Lifeline.
Bernt: I am -- I'm in favor of cross-access. I think this is your only shot at it. It's the only
way you can control it. It's the only way that you are going to be able to make sure that it
happens. In my -- I don't have a lot of experience. For heaven's sakes, Brad has more
experience on Council than I do and Luke certainly has way more -- but with my -- from
what I have seen lack of -- lack of access always -- almost always creates problems and
if we are not in front of it right now and do the right thing now, then, it will most likely never
happen and that's the reason why these property owners hire smart people like Stephanie
and The Land Group to figure it out for them and I promise you that they will figure it out.
I guarantee it. It will be beautiful. Stephanie will figure it out. It will be gorgeous and it
will be functional. That's my thought.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Council Member Bernt, what do you think Council Member Borton would have
to say? Sorry.
Bernt: Oh, I hope someone's listening.
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: On a serious point, Council Member Bernt hit the nail on the head. We know
whatever decision we make likely in the future someone will say we should have done it
differently, but defaulting to access always seems to be the more prudent decision to
make.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor, I don't think I have ever laughed that hard on the Dais before. Thank
you for that. I think we all needed that tonight. Appreciate it.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Yeah. Question to Sonya. Sonya, was that -- you called that a construction
easement? Is that what the proper term was for reserving that property and for when the
property in the west comes into city jurisdiction, then, we can marry the two?
Allen: Mr. Mayor, Councilman Hoaglun. Yes, I believe that's appropriate language that
Mr. Nary can correct me if I'm wrong, but allows them to go onto their property to construct
a driveway.
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Nary: So, Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council. So, Council Member Hoaglun, I'm more
concerned about requiring somebody -- adjacent property owner construct something on
a separate piece of property that has nothing to do with them. So, I think that's more
problematic. You know, if -- my suggestion was simply not require construction now, but
in the future. I recognize that's a challenge as well, but requiring an adjacent property to
do an off-site improvement like that on --to the benefit of a different property owner I think
it's going to be problematic in the future.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor, follow up with Mr. Nary.
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: So, Bill, you are recommending that that easement be -- that easement to the
west property be reserved for future access. Would that get us to where we are trying to
get to?
Nary: Well, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Hoaglun, I think -- I
think, actually, Council Member Bernt was -- was right on the money. I mean if you don't
require it to be built now it will be a challenge to get it built in the future, whether it's built
by the property owner at the time, whether they are resistant to doing it. It could be ten
years from now. Again, people forget, people don't realize it. So, if you don't construct it
now it may never be constructed or it may require another legal action to get it constructed
in the future, which, again, a future council will have to decide whether they are willing to
do that. So, I -- I think Council Member Bernt was right, that if you don't do it now there
will be challenges either way. You are going to be challenged with parking, you are going
to be challenged with access, you can be challenged with construction in the future.
Hoaglun: So, Mr. Mayor, follow up.
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: To build -- Bill, you mentioned have them build it now. What -- what does that
mean? Is it actually lowering the grade and actually making things level and running
asphalt right up to the property line and maybe installing Jersey barriers, don't know what
it is, but -- but they would have to get everything ready to go for that future --future cross-
access agreement that may be 20 years in the making.
Nary: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, yeah, it would look just like your roadways out
there that have those barricades that say road to be extended in the future and I have
seen many of those barricades in front of buildings that will likely never change, so you
are correct, you are constructing it so that all the other property owner has to do is build
on their property and, basically, the roads have to match. So, it is a complete construction
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and I think as also been pointed out, on the east it's still also in the county and I don't
even know what's on that property. So, it is a challenge either way. I mean -- because
you will have a constructed driveway that goes to nothing for who knows how long.
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: We need to make a decision.
Simison: Yes, you do. You need to either close the public hearing or extend it to see if
they want to go out and come back with another solution or something else.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Question for Stephanie. You have heard kind of some of the conversation from
Council tonight. Would it be beneficial from your perspective to continue this out a month
and give you an opportunity to look at some other options? Are you looking for Council
to make a decision tonight?
Leonard: Mr. Mayor, Councilman Cavener, I -- you know, I don't know what the answer
to that question is. I think -- I'm reaching out to -- to our client right now to kind of see
what their opinion is. I don't know how big of a deal it is to grade or how much that would
cost for the property owner or if that's kind of in their grand scheme of things at this point.
I would like to note --we were kind of looking at the site plan as we were chatting and just
trying to figure out where we might place another parking space if -- if need be on the
west side. So, say we were required to maybe just provide the cross-access at this point,
knowing that in the future we would have to actually construct it, I think we could
accommodate a space or maybe even two on the north part of the site adjacent to the
trash enclosure, so -- so, that is -- I mean I -- I believe an option as far as being able to
-- to accommodate a future construction if need be. Additionally, I think Sonya and I,
when we were kind of looking through the site plan and talking about the -- the condition
requirement, I talked about putting it maybe further south. I know that that might be just
where the grade is and, unfortunately, the building to the west is kind of like right in the
way there, but I wonder if that might be an option that would work, too, and maybe be a
little bit less detrimental cost wise. But, yeah, I haven't received a response and I don't
know -- I don't know if it would be best to just make the decision. I would -- I -- I guess
maybe I would defer to what you folks think your decision would be if -- or what maybe
some good ideas would be in reconfiguring the site plan in a way that would provide cross-
access without causing too much of an issue for our client, if there are any good ideas.
Unfortunately, the site's pretty -- I mean there is an existing building that we are trying to
reuse and the grade of everything just makes it so we kind of configured everything
exactly the way that it could and fit everything in the way that we could, so -- aside from
the cross-access that's being required, we are meeting the requirements otherwise.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
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Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: Stephanie, I think what Council Member Cavener is saying is do you want this
continued or do you want this -- because it sounds like it's probably going to get passed
with -- I don't know that to be, but those would be your two -- do you want us to make a
decision or do you want to have this continued?
Leonard: Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Councilman Bernt. I did understand the question.
I was kind of trying to talk with our client to see if they had a preference on that. My gut
feeling is that you might require the construction of the cross-access regardless of how
the project is reconfigured and I believe that they are pretty eager to get the project going.
Bernt: Okay.
Leonard: So, I guess my -- my opinion is to just make your decision and we will figure it
out and design it as required.
Bernt: Perfect.
Leonard: Thank you.
Bernt: Thank you.
Simison: With that, Councilman Bernt, would you like to make a motion?
Bernt: Yes. Mr. Mayor, I move that we close the public hearing.
Cavener: Second the motion, Mr. Mayor.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. Any discussion on
the motion? If not, all in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay. The ayes have it.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. TWO ABSENT.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: Any -- any thoughts on the Snider Lateral before we make motions? Okay. Mr.
Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: I move that we approve Item No. 5, H-2020-0097, approving the waiver for the
Snider Lateral on the northern portion of the site to remain open and not piped. However,
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declining the applicant's request from us to waive the UDC requirements for cross-access
ingress-egress easements to the adjacent properties to the east and west.
Leonard: Mr. Mayor, Commissioner Bernt, if I may-- I do know that the hearing is closed.
Can I ask a question?
Simison: One second. Let me see if this has a second first.
Cavener: I will second it.
Simison: Okay. So, I do have a motion and a second. Mr. Nary, do we need to reopen
the public hearing to hear from the applicant?
Nary: I think we just need -- she's going to ask a question. I think it's just -- if she wants
to clarify what's been required, I think that's perfectly fine.
Simison: All right. Stephanie, go ahead.
Leonard: Yes. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I just wanted to clarify. I think-- my understanding
from our discussion is that the requirement would just be for cross-access and
construction to the west. Cross-access and construction of a driveway to the east would
be pretty difficult to accomplish and the property to the east is already annexed into the
city and hasn't--from what I can tell -- been required to provide that cross-access or have
a constructed driveway. So, that would eliminate three of our required parking spaces,
while maybe potentially never connecting to anything. I don't know if that's a possibility
to open the public hearing and have that discussion again and maybe make a different
motion, but that was my understanding.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: As we were discussing this that was my understanding as well. We were only
looking at the west access only and not necessarily the east, so --
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: I would like to modify my motion and not include the east, only the west, for cross-
access ingress-egress.
Simison: Does the second concur?
Cavener: Mr. Mayor, that was my understanding is that's what the motion was being
made to. So, I agree.
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Simison: Motion and a second to that -- stated as that at this point in time. Is there any
further discussion on the motion?
Allen: Mr. Mayor, clarification, please.
Simison: Yes, Sonya.
Allen: Does that motion include construction of the driveway or just provision of an
easement to the west?
Bernt: Mr. Mayor, that would include construction. It's what -- it's what you are asking for.
Allen: Thank you.
Simison: Second concurs with that assumption? Yes? If there is no further questions or
comments, I will ask the clerk to call the roll.
Roll call: Bernt, yea; Borton, absent; Cavener, yea; Hoaglun, yea; Strader, yea; Perreault,
absent.
Simison: All ayes. Motion carries. Item is passed.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. TWO ABSENT.
Simison: Merry Christmas.
Leonard: Thank you.
6. Public Hearing for Southridge Apartments (H-2020-0109) by The Land
Group, Located on the South Side of W. Overland Rd. Midway Between
S. Ten Mile Rd. and S. Linder Rd.
A. Request: Development Agreement Modification (Inst. #2015-
112096) to include an updated conceptual development plan for the
third phase of the development.
Simison: Next item is a public hearing for Southridge Apartments, H-2020-0109. We will
open this public hearing with staff comments and turn it over to Sonya.
Allen: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council. The next and last item before you
on land use applications is a request for a development agreement modification. This
site consists of 8.61 acres of land. It's zoned R-15. It is located on the south side of West
Overland Road, midway between Ten Mile and Linder Roads. This property was originally
annexed back in 2006 and later rezoned in 2011 . The existing development agreement
for the property includes a concept plan for the first two phases of development and
requires a modification to the agreement to update the concept plan to include a
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development plan for the third phase prior to development. A total of 476 dwelling units
were approved to develop in the first two phases combined. The Comprehensive Plan
future land use map designation is high density residential in the Ten Mile Interchange
Specific Area Plan. The proposed concept plan depicts a total of 14 structures on 8.61
acres of land containing approximately 164 dwelling units, with associated common
areas, access driveways, and parking for the third phase of development. Two access
driveways are proposed via South Grand Fork Way, a local street. The third phase
continued is through a design of the first two phases with three story apartment buildings
rotated such that no two buildings are parallel to each other or parallel with a public street,
eliminating the row effect. Associated parking areas and drive aisles are angled to
eliminate long parking lot views, which also assist in traffic calming. The proposed
concept plan appears to be in general compliance with UDC standards. Detailed review
will take place with subsequent conditional use permit application. With the third phase
an overall density -- gross density of 18 units on 35.5 acres of land. That's -- excuse me.
Units per acre -- 18 units per acre on 35.5 acres of land will be provided for the entire
multi-family development consistent with the density desired in high density residential
designated in the Ten Mile plan, which is 16 to 25 units per acre. The applicant is
requesting condition number 5.15 in Section 5.1 of the development agreement, which
requires the DA to be modified prior to development of phase three, to include a concept
development plan for the area is removed from the agreement as the condition has been
satisfied with this application. Staff is recommending approval. We have received written
testimony from Jason Densmer and Tamara Thompson from The Land Group in
agreement with the staff report. Staff will stand for any questions.
Simison: Thank you. Council, any questions? All right. With that we will open this up to
the applicant. Can you state your name and address for the record and be recognized
for 15 minutes.
Thompson: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Members of Council. Tamara Thompson with The
Land Group. We are at 462 East Shore Drive in Eagle. Sonya did a great job of giving
you the overview. I just have a couple -- just items to add. This is a development
agreement modification to add a concept plan for phase three. The property has already
been annexed and zoned previously. It's just -- the concept plan needs to be updated for
this last phase. Phases one and two already have a conditional use permit approval and
CZC and design review approval and many of the phase one buildings are already
occupied or under construction. As outlined in the staff report, phase three is consistent
with the R-15 zone, the Ten Mile Specific Area Plan and the previous phases one and
two. With your approval, the next step would be a conditional use permit for phase three
and, then, CZC and DR approval. We have read the staff report and agree with staff's
analysis and conditions of approval and we respectfully request your approval tonight.
Thank you.
Simison: Thank you. Council, any questions? Thank you. Mr. Clerk, did we have anyone
signed up to provide testimony on this item?
Johnson: Mr. Mayor, we did not.
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Simison: Okay. And there is nobody in the room. Is there anybody--do we have anybody
still online that may wish to provide testimony? If so, if you can do so -- if you can indicate
by using the raise your hand feature at the bottom of the Zoom platform. Not seeing any
of the three people looking to raise their hand, so I will ask the applicant -- Councilman
Cavener.
Cavener: Move that we closed the public hearing on Item 6, South Ridge Apartments, H-
2020-0109.
Simison: Before we have a second can I just confirm that the applicant has no final
comments?
Thompson: Mr. Mayor, thank you. My final comment is Merry Christmas, because I'm
the last one on the agenda. So, hope you all have a nice holiday.
Simison: Okay. Thank you. Do I have a second to Councilman Cavener's motion?
Bernt: Second.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. Any discussion on
the motion? If not, all in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay. The ayes have it.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. TWO ABSENT.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: I move we approve Item 6, South Ridge Apartments, H-2019-0109 as
presented.
Bernt: Second.
Simison: I have a motion and a second. Is there any discussion on the motion?
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Real quick. Tamara, thanks. Merry Christmas. Apologies to having you kind
of be the bookends of our meeting tonight. I should have caught that and moved some
things around. So, appreciate your fortitude to stick with us tonight. Have a Merry
Christmas.
Simison: All right. Is there any discussion on the motion? If not, clerk will call the roll.
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Roll call: Bernt, yea; Borton, absent; Cavener, yea; Hoaglun, yea; Strader, yea; Perreault,
absent.
Simison: All ayes. Motion carries. The item is agreed to.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. TWO ABSENT.
Simison: Thank you all for getting us to that point tonight and, Sonya, for your work this
evening.
Allen: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Council. Merry Christmas.
ORDINANCES [Action Item]
7. Ordinance No. 20-1908: An Ordinance (H-2020-0038 — Sagewood West
Subdivision) for Annexation of a Parcel of Land Being a Portion of the
NW '/4 of the NW '/4 of Section 24, Township 3 North, Range 1 West,
Boise Meridian, Ada County, Idaho, as Described in Attachment "A"
and Annexing Certain Lands and Territory, Situated in Ada County,
Idaho, and Adjacent and Contiguous to the Corporate Limits of the
City of Meridian as Requested by the City of Meridian; Establishing
and Determining the Land Use Zoning Classification of 10.41 Acres of
Land from RUT to R-8 (Medium Density Residential) Zoning District
in the Meridian City Code; Providing that Copies of this Ordinance
Shall be Filed with the Ada County Assessor, the Ada County
Recorder, and the Idaho State Tax Commission, as Required by Law;
and Providing for a Summary of the Ordinance; and Providing for a
Waiver of the Reading Rules; and Providing an Effective Date
Simison: Okay. Next we are going to move on to the Clerk's show. Item No. 7 is
Ordinance No. 20-1908. Ask the clerk to read this ordinance by title.
Johnson: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. It's an ordinance related to H-2020-0038, Sagewood
West Subdivision, for annexation of a parcel of land being a portion of the NW 1/4 of the
NW '/4 of Section 24, Township 3 North, Range 1 West, Boise meridian,Ada county, Idaho,
as described in Attachment "A" and annexing certain lands and territory, situated in Ada
county, Idaho, and adjacent and contiguous to the corporate limits of the City of Meridian
as requested by the City of Meridian; establishing and determining the land use zoning
classification of 10.41 acres of land from RUT to R-8, medium density residential zoning
district, in the Meridian City Code; providing that copies of this ordinance shall be filed
with the Ada County Assessor, the Ada County Recorder, and the Idaho State Tax
Commission, as required by law; and providing for a summary of the ordinance and
providing for a waiver of the reading rules and providing an effective date.
Simison: Council, you have heard this ordinance read by title. Would anybody like it read
in its entirety? If not, do I have a motion?
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Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Move we approve Ordinance No. 20-1908, with suspension of the rules.
Bernt: Second.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to approve Ordinance No. 20-1908 under
suspension of the rules. Is there any discussion on the motion? If not, all those in favor
signify by saying aye. Opposed nay. The ayes have it and the ordinance is agreed to.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. TWO ABSENT.
8. Ordinance No. 20-1909: An Ordinance (H-2020-0058 Epic Storage) for
Rezone of a Parcel of Land Lying in the NW '/4 NW '/4 of Section 24,
Township 3 North, Range 3 North, Boise Meridian, Ada County, Idaho;
Establishing and Determining the Land Use Zoning Classification of
4.55 Acres of Land from R-8 (Medium Density Residential) Zoning
District to C-C (Community Business) Zoning District in the Meridian
City Code; Providing that Copies of this Ordinance Shall be Filed with
the Ada County Assessor, the Ada County Recorder, and the Idaho
State Tax Commission, as Required by Law; and Providing for a
Summary of the Ordinance; and Providing for a Waiver of the Reading
Rules; and Providing an Effective Date
Simison: Next is Item 8, Ordinance No. 20-1909. 1 will ask the clerk to read this ordinance
by title.
Johnson: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. It's an ordinance related to H-2020-0058, Epic Storage,
for rezone of a parcel of land lying in the NW '/4 of the NW '/4 of Section 24, Township 3
North, Range 3 North, Boise meridian, Ada county, Idaho; establishing and determining
the land use zoning classification of 4.55 acres of land from R-8 (Medium Density
Residential) Zoning District to C-C (Community Business) Zoning District in the Meridian
City Code; providing that copies of this ordinance shall be filed with the Ada County
Assessor, the Ada County Recorder, and the Idaho State Tax Commission, as required
by law; and providing for a summary of the ordinance; and providing for a waiver of the
reading rules; and providing an effective date.
Simison: Council, you have heard this item --this ordinance read by title. Is there anyone
that would like it read in its entirety? If not, do I have a motion?
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
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Cavener: Move we approve Ordinance No. 20-1909, with suspension of the rules.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: I second that motion.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to approve Ordinance No. 20-1909 under
suspension of the rules. Is there any discussion on the motion? If not, all those in favor
signify by saying aye. Opposed nay. The ayes have it. The ordinance is agreed to.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. TWO ABSENT.
9. Ordinance No. 20-1910: An Ordinance (H-2020-0066 Apex) for Rezone
of a Parcel of Land Situated in a Portion of the East % of the Northwest
1/4, all of the Southeast '/4 of Section 31, and a Portion of the West '/z of
the Southwest '/4 of Section 32, Township 3, Range 1 East, Boise
Meridian, Ada County, Idaho, all of West % of the Northwest '/4 Section
5 and a Portion of the East % of the Northeast '/4 of Section 6,
Township 2 North, Range 1 East, Boise Meridian, Ada County, Idaho;
Establishing and Determining the Land Use Zoning Classification of
384.27 Acres of Land from R-4 (Medium-Low Density Residential)
Zoning District R-8 (Medium Density Residential)(264.06 Acres), R-15
(Medium High Residential)(76.93 Acres) and C-C (Community
Business)(43.28 Acres) Zoning Districts in the Meridian City Code;
Providing that Copies of this Ordinance Shall be Filed with the Ada
County Assessor, the Ada County Recorder, and the Idaho State Tax
Commission, as Required by Law; and Providing for a Summary of
Ordinance; and Providing for a Waiver of the Reading Rules; and
Providing an Effective Date
Simison: Item 9 is Ordinance No. 29-1910. 1 will ask the clerk to read this ordinance by
title.
Johnson: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. It's an ordinance related to H-2020-0068, Apex, for
rezone of a parcel of land situated in a portion of the East '/z of the Northwest '/4, all of the
Southeast '/4 of Section 31, and a portion of the West '/2 of the Southwest '/4 of Section
32, Township 3, Range 1 East, Boise meridian, Ada county, Idaho, all of the West '/2 of
the Northwest '/4, Section 5 and a portion of the east '/2 of the Northeast '/4 of Section 6,
Township 2 North, Range 1 East, Boise meridian, Ada county, Idaho; establishing and
determining the land use zoning classification of 384.27 acres of land from R-4 (Medium-
Low Density Residential) Zoning District to R-8 (Medium Density Residential) -- sorry.
and R-8, (Medium Density Residential) (264.06 acres), R-15 (medium high residential)
(76.93 acres) and C-C (Community Business) (43.28 acres) zoning districts in the
Meridian City Code; providing that copies of this ordinance shall be filed with the Ada
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County Assessor, the Ada County Recorder, and the Idaho State Tax Commission, as
required by law; and providing for a summary of the ordinance; and providing for a waiver
of the reading rules; and providing an effective date.
Simison: Council, you have heard this item read by title. Is there anyone that would like
it read in its entirety? If not, do I have a motion?
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Move we approve Ordinance No. 20-1910 with suspension of the rules.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: I second that motion.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to approve Ordinance No. 20-1910 under
suspension of the rules. Is there any discussion on the motion? If not, all in favor signify
by saying aye. Opposed nay? The ayes have it. The ordinance is agreed to.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. TWO ABSENT.
Simison: Thank you all for a great meeting this evening. I know we got one more thing
to do, but we will come out and just say it's been a great first calendar year 2020 of
meetings. So, thank you, I appreciate the honor to chair these meeting, except for when
I haven't. Appreciate the honor. Or chair the meetings. So, with that --
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: I just wanted to say one thing to those who are watching or our citizens of Meridian,
I wish you all, on behalf of our Meridian City Council, a Happy Holiday, Merry Christmas.
I hope you all find peace and solace in all that you do and know that we are grateful for
the opportunity to work on your behalf. So, Happy Holiday, Merry Christmas, and with
prayer and hopes of -- of a prosperous 2021 with tons of blessings for all. Ho-Ho-Ho.
Thank you.
FUTURE MEETING TOPICS
Simison: Perfect. Any item under future meeting topics?
EXECUTIVE SESSION
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10. Per Idaho Code 74-206A(1)(a) To deliberate on a labor contract offer or
to formulate a counteroffer
Simison: Then do I have a motion?
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: I move that we go into Executive Session per Idaho Code 74-206A(1)(a).
Cavener: Second the motion.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to go into Executive Session. Ask the clerk to
call the role.
Roll call: Bernt, yea; Borton, absent; Cavener, yea; Hoaglun, yea; Strader, yea; Perreault,
absent.
Simison: All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. TWO ABSENT.
EXECUTIVE SESSION: (9:28 p.m. to 9:58 p.m.)
Bernt: Move we come put of Executive Session.
Cavener: Second.
Simison: I have a motion and second to come out of Executive Session. All in favor say
aye.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. TWO ABSENT.
Bernt: I move we adjourn.
Cavener: Second.
Simison: Motion and second to adjourn. All in favor?
MOTION CARRIED: FOURAYES. TWOABSENT.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 9:58 P.M.
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(AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
1-5-2021
MAYOR ROBERT E. SIMISON DATE APPROVED
ATTEST:
CHRIS JOHNSON - CITY CLERK
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