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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2005 11-15 Meridian City Council Meeting November 15. 2005 The regular meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 7:05 P.M. Wednesday, November 15, 2005, by Mayor Tammy de Weerd. Members Present: Mayor, Tammy de Weerd, Shaun Wardle, Keith Bird, Charlie Rountree and Christine Donnell. Others Present: Bill Nary, Will Berg, Anna Canning, Len Grady, Bill Musser, Joe Silva and Dean Willis. Item 1: Roll-call Attendance: Roll call. X Shaun Wardle X Charlie Rountree X X Christine Donnell X Keith Bird Mayor Tammy de Weerd De Weerd: Okay. I will go ahead and call the City Council meeting to order. It is Tuesday, November 15th, five minutes after 7:00. I'd like to welcome you all here tonight. We will start with roll call attendance. Item 2: Pledge of Allegiance: De Weerd: Thank you. Item No.2 is the pledge of allegiance. Tonight we will -- oh. You know, last week I announced one of the milestones of our City Clerk and I forgot to share this really cute picture. So, we just wanted to share that with you. It was his 50th birthday. So, we celebrated with him. If you will all rise and join us in the pledge. RoAnne de Weerd will lead us. Item 3: Community Invocation by Pastor Craig Flinn, with Meridian Alliance Church: De Weerd: Thank you, RoAnne. Thank you, RoAnne. Actually, we usually give the people that lead us in the pledge a City of Meridian pin. So thank you. Item No.3 is our community invocation. We will be lead tonight by Pastor Craig Flynn with the Meridian Alliance Church. If you will, please, join us in the invocation or take this as an opportunity for a moment of silence. Thank you for joining us. Flynn: We'll start tonight just with a moment silence for everyone just to be still and pray your own prayer. Father in Heaven, we honor your name. We acknowledge your rule in heaven and over the earth. We desire that rule to be manifested in this city. We thank you for the provisions you have given us this day of food, clothing, and our homes. We pray for those in our city that may have those needs. God, we implore your forgiveness for our faults and our wayward ways and that you would give us the grace, the gift in this city of forgiveness. Where there has been hurt in our own lives, we would Meridian City Council November 15, 2005 Page 2 of 65 extend grace and forgive spouse, children, friends, neighbors. that we have wholeness in relationships. Father, we pray that you would give us the grace to say yes to the right things and no to the wrong things and protect us from evil around us and give us the grace to make choices that not only honor you, but honor each other. God, we want to pray for those that are serving us in the military around the world. We just pray a special blessing on them. We thank you that we can meet in this room tonight because of their sacrifice. God, you have appointed each one before me. I pray you give them wisdom tonight as they listen to the hearts of the people in the city. Give them wisdom to make the decisions that will honor you and strengthen us and we pray these things in your name, amen. De Weerd: Thank you. Flynn: You have given me about six of those, so -- De Weerd: Well, we appreciate you joining us tonight. Flynn: You bet. De Weerd: And thank you for the special mention of our troops. We are flying the 116th flag through the period that they are returning. You will see that on the flag-pole in Storey Park on the north curb and also here in front of City Hall in honor of our returning soldiers. So, we appreciate you keeping them in your prayers. Before we go to the adoption of the agenda, we do have a couple of guests here tonight I would like to recognize. They are from Meridian High School. Meridian will be playing in the championship game on Friday night and I do have a proclamation to read and, then, present to Principal Nesbitt and also head football coach Mr. Virden. We appreciate you joining us here tonight and with that I will read our proclamation. Whereas the City of Meridian commends the Meridian High School varsity football team for having an outstanding season this year and whereas the team has compiled a ten wins one loss season record and whereas this team will be competing for the state SA high school championship on Friday at Bronco stadium and whereas the Mayor and City Council of the City of Meridian acknowledges the accomplishments and efforts of this team, school, and their supporters, therefore, I, Tammy de Weerd, Mayor of the City of Meridian, do hereby proclaim Friday, November 18th, 2005, as Warrior Day in the City of Meridian in recognition for the successful football season and urge all citizens of this community to acknowledge and support them on this day. Thank you for joining us. We will see you on Friday. Item 4: Adoption of the Agenda: De Weerd: Item No.4. Adoption of the agenda. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Meridian City Council November 15, 2005 Page 3 of 65 Bird: We have some ordinances. I'll read the numbers. Ordinance on Item 14 is 05- 1200. 15 is 05-1201. And 16 is 05-1202. And with that I would move that we approve the agenda as published. Rountree: Second. De Weerd: Okay. The motion is to approve adoption of the agenda as presented. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 5: Consent Agenda: A. Approve Minutes of October 3, 2005 City Council & ACHD Joint Workshop Meeting: B. Approve Minutes of October 25, 2005 City Council Regular Meeting: C. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: VAR 05-021 Request for a Variance to allow three access points onto Eagle Road for Kohl's Department Store by W.H. Moore - NWC of North Eagle Road and East Ustick Road: D. Amendment to the Development Agreement for Sommersby Subdivision by Confluence Management, LLC: E. Memorandum of Understanding with Regard to Maintenance of Landscaping and Sprinkler System with Autumn Fa ire Subdivision Homeowners Association: F. Approve Beer and Wine License Transfer for Bolo's Pub & Eaterv - 601 South Main Street: G. North Black Cat Trunk and Lift Station Authorization for Additional Services No.1 with JUB Engineers, Inc.: De Weerd: Item No.5 is the Consent Agenda. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: I would move that we approve the Consent Agenda as published and for the Mayor to sign and the clerk to attest on all proper papers. Meridian City Council November 15, 2005 Page 4 of 65 Rountree: Second. De Weerd: Okay. Motion to approve the Consent Agenda. If there is -- Mr. Nary has discussion. Nary: Madam Mayor, just -- you can leave it on the Consent Agenda. I just wanted the Council to be aware -- Item D, the Amendment to the Development Agreement for Summersby Subdivision, if you recall a number of months back you had already made a decision on Summersby, they had requested mediation. We did have mediation. This was the result of the mediation was these amendments, some of the roadway improvements and some of the phasing of the project. But staff, myself, the planning staff, the developers had all met and this is what has come back to you. So, I just wanted to refresh you on why this is such a gap from when you actually approved it originally to just now, but that's all it is and I just wanted you to be aware of it. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Nary. Bird: The motion maker would have one question. Have they signed off on this, Mr. Nary? The developers? Nary: Yes. Bird: On the amendment? Okay. I stay with my motion. De Weerd: Okay. Second agree? Okay. I will go ahead and call roll on that. Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Donnell, yea. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 6: Department Reports: A. Fire Department - Joe Silva 1. Update on Bids for Fire Truck: De Weerd: Okay. Item No.6 under Department Reports. The fire department. Deputy Chief Silva is here to report on the fire truck. And I think we have a couple of firefighters who have also participated in this process. Thank you for joining us. Silva: Good evening, Mayor, Members of the Council. I would like to thank, first of all, members of the fire apparatus bid committee that are with us tonight, Lance Smith and Ken Wilburn. The process for developing the bids -- what we -- first of all, is road and Meridian City Council November 15, 2005 Page 5 of 65 general specification and we sent that bid and requested -- we contacted 14 vendors to have them assist us in developing the specifications, also requesting that they bid on the project, seven of which responded to our request for a bid and three of them met the specifications by submitting bids. The bids -- I have provided you a summary sheet in front of you with the specifications and the price of the Rosenbower, one by Pierce, and one by Seagrave. The Rosenbower is in the net amount of 318,908 dollars. We had some concerns that they took 54 exceptions to our bid specification, as listed in the left- hand column. I will be glad to explain any of the exceptions that were taken there. Some of the most important ones that were taken where they did not -- they would not specify the compartment dimensions in the specification. They would not provide us with specifications for the size of the hose bed, which is important, because we carry minimum amounts of hose to meet our mission. And there was some other concerns about warning lights and rear scene lighting that enables us to light the scene when we are operating around the back of the apparatus at night. We have received another bid from Pierce in the net amount of 355,338 dollars. There are some deductions in there for prepainting the chassis, prepayment at the factory of the entire apparatus and prepayment at the time when we award the bid. If we take those deductions, that equals a net amount of 355,338 dollars. That bid is -- Pierce has been our apparatus we have been utilizing as we have gone through replacement process with other apparatus. It's allowed us to standardize our training program. It allows our driver operators to be thoroughly familiar with the locations of the valves and the gauges on the fire pump. It's allowed us to inventory maintenance -- maintenance parts and keep our maintenance issues locally and we have had good factory support on maintenance issues. It also allows us to standardize the location of the equipment on the apparatus, which is very important, in particular when we have expended our mission to meet the advanced life support goals that we have set to provide paramedic engine companies. That mission -- change in our mission has required that we carry more equipment and we have to be very particular in the size and dimensions of the apparatus compartment in order to be able to carry all that equipment. So, with that being said, we would like to recommend that Council support a bid -- awarding the bid to the Pierce apparatus in the amount of 355,338 dollars. And with that I will stand for questions if you have any. De Weerd: Council, any questions? Rountree: Deputy Chief? De Weerd: Oh, I'm sorry. Rountree: The Pierce stands up to garage doors pretty well, don't they? Silva: Yes, sir, they do. Bird: They take care of garage doors. De Weerd: We know that from experience. Meridian City Council November 15, 2005 Page 6 of 65 Silva: Yes. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: If we have no further questions for him, I would make a motion that we accept the Pierce manufacturing bid for 355,338 dollars. That is the prepayment. And authorize the Mayor to sign and the Clerk to attest on the contract, subject to review by the city attorney. Rountree: Second. De Weerd: Okay. The motion is to approve the request. The only question I have, Chief, is this does fall within the budget? Bird: Yes, it does. De Weerd: Correct. Silva: The budget amount of 360,000 dollars. De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Okay. If there is no discussion or further information needed, Mr. Berg, will you call roll. Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Donnell, yea. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: Before we move on, if I could make another -- we also budgeted 50,000, which will now give us 55,000 -- almost 55,000 for equipment on this, too, to stock it for station number four. De Weerd: Okay. Silva: Mayor, Members of the Council, that's correct. We have budgeted 50,000 dollars for loose equipment on the apparatus and will take that amount up to approximately 55,000 dollars. De Weerd: Okay. Thank you very much. Do our firefighters have anything they would like to add? Okay. Okay. Well, it's now in the process. Meridian City Council November 15, 2005 Page 7 of 65 Silva: Thank you very much. B. Mayor's Office 1. Mayor's Youth Advisory Council Presentation: De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Item 6-B under Mayor's office. Tonight, as I discussed last week, RoAnne de Weerd and I went to celebrate Meridian's 100 Best Communities for Youth, our selection as one of those communities, and she has a presentation on her experience during that trip. So, RoAnne, I'll turn it over to you. R. De Weerd: I'm RoAnne de Weerd. I'm vice-president of the Mayor's Youth Advisory Council and I made a presentation for my youth council, so it's really directed towards youth, but it's just about what I learned at the conference of the 100 Best Communities. De Weerd: I think Will appreciates you getting his picture off that. Berg: Thank you. R. De Weerd: Okay. Five cities from Idaho were selected. Caldwell. Madison County. Rexburg. Meridian. Nampa. And Salmon, Idaho. And those are the mayors and the kid on the left is the youth advisory president for Caldwell's Youth Council. These are just some opening quotes that really struck me when I was told this at the conference. I had the great pleasure of meeting Alma and Colin Powell, which was a great highlight of my vacation, because they are people I look up to. All right. My promise station -- because I'm part of Meridian's Promise Community, whatever you call it, and it's Healthy Start. I feel it's important that we, as a community, promote healthy foods and exercise. If you compare your dinner with the coloring box, then, you should be getting the right nutrients, like green, the oranges, reds. I thought of a project idea from other people. They gave us many ideas I could bring back to my council. It's taking vendor -- vending machines out of schools, because that's a big part of junk food eating. That's going to be a big task, but I think it's possible. My generation has a lower age expectancy than my parents. Project two is getting rid of all meth use in schools by education on the drug. Five thousand high school students drop out every year in America. If it was lowered, then, we could cut the expenses by 150 billion dollars. Four out of ten young people aren't doing well, which is 22 percent. They have a high school diploma or less, they are unemployed or they are on welfare. Health. They have poorer health care and poorer health habits and unsupportive relationships. Connectiveness. They commit an illegal activity about once a month. Oh. Okay. Forty-three percent of the youth are doing well. Productivity. They are attending college and working steadily. Health. They have good health, good health habits, and healthy relationships. They volunteer. They are politically active, they are active in church, and they have a good sense of community. Another group of honorable people were Senator Craig and Congressman Otter. I feel it's important that you build on your assets, on your strong points in your group. Maximize the positive and minimize the negative. And an example of that is a business might have a lot of extra junk as in computers, paper, and a lot of schools in Meridian City Council November 15, 2005 Page 8 of 65 Meridian could probably put that to good use, because we -- the schools are low on budget and so we don't have enough money to buy extra computers. So, if the youth Council went around and asked businesses if they had extras, then, we could donate those to the schools. It's important that we have strong benches, as in you have your strong leaders that are your speakers, but it's important that you have a supportive bench, which is the rest of the people. By putting all your ideas together you get one great idea. Work on your positive and get past the negative. Work outside your thought boundary. Celebrate the positive. But, then, once you're done, move on to better things. Get a good structure that's base consistent. And that's the founder or the president of 100 Best Communities. The youth is the future. I told my peers that the old people are going to die and, then, we are going to become the old people. So, therefore, we are going to make up the business in 10, 20 years. Rountree: That's how it works. R. De Weerd: Speak up. The adults will listen to you. They are actually excited to hear what you have to say. Listen. Ideas from other people might not be what you want to hear, but listen if you ask and have your own opinion. You will be listened to. When your voice is found, it's hard not to listen to. And that's all. De Weerd: Thank you, RoAnne. Donnell: Very good. De Weerd: Well, now is the question period, RoAnne. R. De Weerd: Oh. De Weerd: Now -- this is when the Council grills you on your experience. Council, any questions for RoAnne? Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: RoAnna, what -- did they give you any -- anyone item what was causing the -- the biggest cause of dropout at the high school level, excluding drugs? R. De Weerd: If they did, I didn't catch that part. But I would think it would be because of lack of interest or not enough attention on help for your studies. Bird: Follow up? De Weerd: Uh-huh. Meridian City Council November 15, 2005 Page 9 of 65 Bird: RoAnne, don't you believe that there is a lot of students out there that would get-- be a lot happier in a technology school than having to take the full course credits? I think high schools of that type have been very successful and I think we save a lot of our kids from dropping out by them learning a trade, instead of being prepared to go to college, because all kids don't want to go to college. R. De Weerd: Yeah. Bird: And we are losing them by setting high standards of the deal. Is that what you feel as a youth? R. De Weerd: Yeah. I agree with that. Bird: Okay. Thank you very much. Very nice presentation. De Weerd: Councilman Bird, I think RoAnne was right in her answer and response to the dropout, that kids kind of get lost in the system or they don't have a support system at home. They did also -- RoAnne gave you a statistic on the cost and cost saved, but they also suggested that by encouraging these kids to continue through and get their high school diploma means an additional 9,000 dollars a year in salary -- annual salary to those kids and that it's important for efforts to be taken. And they did give some examples of some cities, what they are doing to increase the graduation rate. Those communities are significantly lower in their graduation rate than what we are seeing in the Meridian School District, which is around 92 percent graduation rate. So, you know, we are fortunate within our own school district. But the numbers that you saw are staggering. One thing also that RoAnne mentioned was the vending machines. And I could see our former superintendent kind of -- which we were there with Dr. Clark, the superintendent, and RoAnne did discuss it with her. Her idea is to replace it with vending machines that have healthier choices in it. Also it is a joint project, they are kind of considering between the Caldwell youth council, in addition to the Meridian, to look at that. Just also one other clarity. Meridian's Promise is part of a larger group of America's Promise established by General Powell and his wife Alma, but it has five promises to our youth and that is caring adults, safe places, healthy start, marketable skills, and opportunities to serve. And RoAnne's part that she participated in was the healthy start. Our youth council is also in charge of the opportunities to serve, to come up with ideas along that line, too. So, we appreciate, RoAnne, your presentation. R. De Weerd: Actually, with the -- taking out vendors in schools, they have statistics that it -- the students were getting less out of trouble and less referrals, higher grades, and just when you took out the junk food. I don't know. It's just higher attention span and lowered trouble rate. De Weerd: Thank you. Bird: Madam Mayor? Meridian City Council November 15, 2005 Page 10 of 65 De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Bird. Bird: RoAnne, I appreciate this presentation and I'm thankful we have got youth like you that want to be leaders within the community and will lead. And I also want to state that I'm amazed at our 92 percent graduation rate, but it don't floor me, because of our -- the superintendent we had for a few years, because she was very strong in that area and, Christine, you can very proud of it. Donnell: Thank you. Thank you, Councilman. Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mrs. Donnell. Donnell: I actually think it's 96 percent graduation rate. I think we have about a four percent dropout rate. But I'd hate to -- maybe at least at that point it was. But I just have one question for RoAnne. Wouldn't it have been a lot more fun if your -- the mayor that you traveled with would not have been your mother? Tell the truth. Tell the truth. R. De Weerd: No comment. De Weerd: Good answer. Wardle: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Wardle. Wardle: On that note, I certainly applaud your efforts to take on health as an initiative and knowing that within your family you tend to shy away politically from things. I know that the state of board of education is currently looking for community input on physical fitness requirements, health initiatives within the state, and certainly think that having youth representation to talk about the importance of that would be very beneficial to our communities. So, I encourage you to look into that. Rountree: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Rountree. Rountree: RoAnne, if you could extend your efforts into the City Council chambers -- I know when I open up my drawer it's got M&Ms and Butterfingers and that sort of thing. And we eat those things. Maybe we could get some peanuts and -- R. De Weerd: Well, our youth council does. We get in your drawers and take your candy for you. Bird: And it's our ex-superintendent that brought them to us. Donnell: Council, that's left over Halloween candy. Meridian City Council November 15, 2005 Page 11 of 65 De Weerd: Okay. We are regressing here. Thank you, RoAnne. If there is no further questions from Council? Bird: Thank you very much. De Weerd: We appreciate your presentation. And she gave that to the youth council last week and so they are moving forward on things. Thank you. 2. Discussion of Revision I Amendment Economic Development Coordinator Agreement: De Weerd: Okay. Item No. B~2 is discussion of revision amendment of the economic development coordinator agreement. I will turn this item over to our council president. Wardle: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Item No.2, under the Mayor's office -- I apologize for not bringing this under my agenda item. Cheryl Brown, our economic development coordinator, has a discussion item she would like to bring up that I believe we discussed during our initial budget hearing when we got some additional information. So, Cheryl. Brown: Do you want me to state my name? De Weerd: Please. Brown: Cheryl Brown. As required in my contract, it states that I need to carry professional liability insurance and, basically, this is for the errors and omissions. I just found out that this is going to run about 2,000 dollars a year to cover this. And so what I am asking for is an amendment to my contract to include another 2,000 dollars to my overall cost for my overall contract amount. Bird: Mr. President? If I may-- De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: Let me make a statement in -- for Cheryl's sake that -- the contract she was under last year, we inadvertently -- we, not her, didn't require this kind of an insurance that we require with all subcontractors. Somehow or the other it went over our heads and I was the one that made the motion to accept her, so -- or accept the contract. So, I feel that she didn't realize that we expected this, because we -- she had went under one year of contract without it. So, I personally am in favor of giving her the extra 2,000 dollars to cover her deal. She has got one bid and has got a couple more coming in and that would be my preference, so that her contract has got the same requirements of all our su bcontractors. Donnell: Mr. President? Meridian City Council November 15, 2005 Page 12 of 65 De Weerd: Mrs. Donnell. Wardle: It's the Mayor's meeting. Sorry. Donnell: Oh, sorry. Which way am I going here. Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes. Donnell: And, Cheryl, this isn't anything to do with whether, you know, I think that it's due or not or whether it was overlooked or not, but a contract -- contracts and contracted services, usually that's a built-in cost that the contractor, whoever that happens to be, the consultant or whoever, builds into their contract. That isn't part of salary. That should have probably been discussed previously and, then, the negotiations of the contract amount is just one amount and that's left up to the consultant to pay that insurance. I don't think that that's something that we, as a Council, make that decision. Now, if we want to increase salary and have that covered -- unless -- unless I'm unaware of other consultants that the city uses where they actually give an additional amount to cover that liability insurance. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: Christine, you're a hundred percent right. The other ones have it figured in. Cheryl's _w in her our RFQ last year, was not required. This year we did require it and she did not know that. And to be truthful, this contract has not been signed yet. There is some other wording that probably needs to be taken care of. All she's asking for -- and she's not asking for us to pay that, she's asking for an increase of our contract to 42,000 dollars. From 40 to 42 thousand, am I not right? Brown: Correct. Bird: And I feel -- I'm with you a hundred percent, Christine. If it was somebody that last year we required that and she didn't come back and do it, but somehow or the other slipped through the -- the loop and we did not require it and, then, all of a sudden after this -- after she gets this contract and no different in requirements, we require it and I don't think that's fair, because if it had been part of her RFQ, then, I would say, no, we are not -- you take it out of your deal. But it was not. It was -- I feel that -- that it was just an oversight our part last year. Wardle: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Wardle. Wardle: And just from a procedural point of view for the Council's knowledge, what we are, essentially, doing is amending -- would be amending the budget item we have Meridian City Council November 15, 2005 Page 13 of 65 budgeted and let from the Council a contract of 40,000 dollars. The request is to amend the Council's revision that hasn't been signed by the consultant, but to amend that and to, additionally, amend the budget for an additional 2,000 dollars. Is that correct, Mr. Nary? Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Councilmember Wardle, that is correct. That's what your -- that's the action you would be taking. De Weerd: Okay. Any further discussion, Council. Okay. Do I have a motion? Wardle: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Wardle. Wardle: I move that we approve the request for revision and amendment of contract for economic development coordinator to 42,000 dollars. Rountree: Second. Bird: Second. De Weerd: Okay. The motion is to approve the addition of the 2,000 dollars to the contract, totaling 42,000. Is there any further discussion? Mr. Berg, will you call roll. Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Donnell, yea. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. 3. Discussion of Ranking of Curb, Gutter and Sidewalk Project for ACHD Community Program: De Weerd: Okay. Item B-3 is discussion and ranking of curb, gutter, and sidewalk. You had received a copy of -- from Ada County Highway District detailing out the sidewalk projects and the question I would ask of Council are there any changes in that ranking order or any comments regarding that letter? We do want to get back to ACHD on verifying that those still are priorities that are reflective of this Council. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: From my view they are. I mean every one of them is important. De Weerd: Okay. Any other discussion? I will go ahead and respond to Ada County Highway District and confirm that they remain our priorities and last year we did commit Meridian City Council November 15, 2005 Page 14 of 65 it for .- if any of those were to be funded, we would commit to the required match. Is that still the commitment of this Council? Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: And, certainly, we would bring back those-- Mr. Bird: Didn't we carry that -- didn't we carry that over in the budget to do that? De Weerd: I don't recall. Bird: I think we did. Anyway, I'm for-- Rountree: I can support that. Bird: I support it. De Weerd: Okay. Well, thank you. I will go ahead and get a response to them. Item 7: Items Moved from Consent Agenda: De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. There were no items removed from the Consent Agenda. Item 8: Item 9: Item 1 0: Public Hearing: AZ 05-038 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 38.5 acres from RUT to R-8 zone for Irvine Subdivision by Dyver Development, LLC - southeast corner of Ten Mile Road and Chinden Boulevard: Public Hearing: PP 05-037 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 200 building lots and 21 common lots on 38.5 acres in a proposed R-8 zone for Irvine Subdivision by Dyver Development, LLC - southeast corner of Ten Mile Road and Chinden Boulevard: Public Hearing: CUP 05-039 Request for Conditional Use Permit for a Planned Development for single family detached residential units and single family attached residential units in a proposed R-8 zone for Irvine Subdivision by Dyver Development, LLC - southeast corner of Ten Mile Road and Chinden Boulevard: De Weerd: And so I will go ahead and move to Items 8, 9, and 10, public hearings on AZ 05-038, PP 05-037, and CUP 05-039. I will open these public hearings with staff comments. Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is the Irvine project. It's located at the southeast corner of Ten Mile and Chinden. It is comprised of an annexation and Meridian City Council November 15, 2005 Page 150f65 zoning, preliminary plat, and, then, a Conditional Use Permit for a planned development. The applicant is requesting annexation and zoning of 38.5 acres. Currently undeveloped. And they are seeking an R-8 zone for the entire parcel. The applicant has submitted a preliminary plat for the subject property and it shows 200 single family lots. There are 41 single family attached units, 97 single family detached, and 62 detached units that take access from an alley and front on a MEW. And this was that new term for lots -- it's not, actually, an alley, it's a private street. Excuse me. They take access from a private street, but, then, the houses look on -- out onto an open space area. And this is one of the MEWs with parking -- you can see the guest parking provided. And this is the other MEW with guest parking provided. There are also 21 common lots. The Conditional Use Permit includes requests for reductions to minimum lot size, minimum street frontage, side setbacks, front setbacks, and maximum block lengths in the R-8 zone. And those are primarily for those MEW units. A little squished. This one is a little easier to read and to see the open space. The gross residential density is 5.19 dwelling units per acre. We do have some road sections and I believe Sue Sullivan from ITD is going to have some comments related to these road sections for Chinden. I wanted to show you these elevations. These are as proposed for attached units and I believe the MEW unit. Everything's looking dark on my projector today. Those are the elevations. As part of this project staff is recommending a development agreement and the Planning and Zoning Commission concurred. That development agreement we are suggesting should have language regarding the community center and the clubhouse. They have not submitted elevations at this time. The way the recommendations read to you is that it include a provision that requires all buildings and common areas to contain architectural features and bulk building concepts that are similar to the residential buildings and, then, it has a last phrase, it says as determined by the Commission at each CUP Public Hearing. That last part of the sentence probably needs to come off. I just noticed this as I was prep'ing for Council. A clubhouse or community center for a project would not normally require a Conditional Use Permit. So, the development agreement would just state that it should be similar in appearance to the residential structures. The second item in the development agreement would be that the elevations for the single family attached buildings be similar to the renderings and the photos provided with this application. And that for Chinden Boulevard that the applicant enter into an agreement with ITD to place a pathway on their landscape buffer lot. The applicant wouldn't construct the pathway, but they give a public easement so that ITD could construct that pathway when they are constructing the Chinden or -- yes. When they are constructing Chinden to their future configuration. The Planning and Zoning Commission did recommend approval. They heard the item on October 20th. Kevin Amar, the applicant, and Shawn Nickle spoke in favor of it and Mr. Jerry Stevensen of 6050 North Ten Mile did speak in opposition. The key issues of discussion were fencing adjacent to open areas, highways, streets, micropaths, and canals. Future design and layout of Chinden Boulevard. Getting sewer to the project through Silver Leaf, which is to the east, rather than waiting for a future trunk line. And design of the subdivision in relation to Chinden Boulevard. And, then, traffic and upcoming roadway projects in the area. As a result of those, staff -- of those discussions they did modify the original staff report to include the condition that the applicant grant the pedestrian easement for the pathway that's in the landscape lot Meridian City Council November 15, 2005 Page 160f65 along Chinden that I mentioned before. And with that I will answer any questions the Council may have. De Weerd: Okay. Council, before I ask if you have any questions, Councilman Rountree will be recusing himself. Any questions for staff at this time? Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: I'm being lazy, Anna, but what's the width of the roads on the inside? Canning: I believe they are standard alignments. I don't think they have requested any reduced road width. Bird: Thirty-three. Thirty. Thirty-four. Canning: Thirty-four back of curb to back of curb. Bird: Thank you. De Weerd: Okay. Any further questions? Okay. Any other comments from staff? Canning: No, ma'am. De Weerd: Okay. Would the applicant like to provide testimony? If you will, please, state our name and address for the record. Amar: I will. Thank you, Madam Mayor, Councilmembers. My name is Kevin Amar. Address is 36 East Pine in Meridian. I'm here tonight for the Irvine Subdivision. Anna did a marvelous job presenting the project and we are in complete agreement with the staff report, as well as any conditions of approval -- also the added condition of approval that was placed on it at the Planning and Zoning meeting. This project is at the corner of Chinden and Ten Mile. This is one of the last large pieces in this square mile to develop or to even be proposed for development. With this project to the -- there is one eight acre parcel here that Mr. Meyers owns and we have met with and talked to extensively. And other than that, this project is the -- will complete this mile length of development or proposed development, preliminary plats along -- along Chinden. We did work -- and I was working with Ms. Sullivan. When we wanted to do this project initially, this quarter mile stretch, we took our right of way and determined what was required or granted for the balance of the property, which was 70 feet, and matched that right of way. In discussions with Ms. Sullivan after that, it was determined, because they were doing an analysis that they may need additional width and especially at the intersection. So we, then, redesigned that intersection to provide additional width for turn bays and for various things. Ms. Sullivan is here and can certainly address the ITD issues better than I can, but we are aware of the traffic volumes on Chinden. We are Meridian City Council November 15, 2005 Page 17 of 65 aware of the need to provide -- to provide thoroughfare for that traffic and are working with ITD to provide that, which is part of the easement that we required for this project on the pedestrian path within the -- within the landscape buffer and, Anna, correct me if I'm wrong, but this is -- this is to provide an actual ten foot easement, rather than just a five foot sidewalk. So, there is future bike paths and other things that it makes it easy. One of the discussions with -- with the Commission was the connection to the -- there are not road connections to this project onto Chinden. The one question that came up was a connection -- a pedestrian connection, but with this project we will be required to build a berm along the frontage of Chinden to minimize the noise and the other things. So, if we introduced a break in that berm, if you will, then, that creates more of a problem. And so that is why we look at it so as not to provide a pedestrian access. The project itself has 200 residential lots and it's new for us in the City of Meridian. In fact, we had some comments from Planning and Zoning that this is what they liked, the diversity of housing styles. This was -- I think one of the comments was it was an answer to things that they have been -- I have got it here. It appears to me to be an answer to the things we have asked for. And that was from Commissioner Zaremba. But let me go over -- if we can -- Anna, could I look at the marketing rendering or the colored rendering? So, on this project, if you look at the project in whole, this property on the outside is the standard detached single-family lots. As we get on the interior, these -- this block of lots, as well as this block -- well, there is a few of them. Are alley loaded, still detached single-family lots. But it's not a garage dominated street front, it has a variety of housing. And, then, you get into the project and these lots and these lots -- all of the lots that front on the common area, so the front of their house will actually be on the common area, our attached housing townhouses, but they are -- the draw to those -- and we have had great reception from the marketing side of this, is their front yard -- they may not have yards to take care of, but they have got three acres of front yard, because it's the entire area in front of them. And we had some pictures before that showed a concept that's been built like this in Eagle and in talking to those real estate agents and other people, it's a very -- a very active market, because people do like that -- that look. We do have -- the total project -- of the total project, there is about four acres -- 4.16 acres that is usable open space. Here we have a picture of. So, these are actually detached single family lots, but they -- this is their front yard. Now, they actually have a swale, but that's because it's in Eagle. We don't plan on using any of that for -- for storm drainage. Ours will be all underground or seepage beds, but you can see that it gives an attractive and a unique feature to those front yards. So, in this project we have four acres of it that is actually usable open space between interior pathways and parks. We do have and are proposing a clubhouse with a pool. We understand that that clubhouse will be required to have similar features of a residential structure. We do want it to blend in and have wood siding and cultured stone or stucco or things of that nature, so when you drive and look at it, it matches very well the existing -- existing or what will be out there, as well as the other projects. We have been working with the irrigation district. The Simpson Lateral currently bisects this property and it will be tiled, which will complete this .- I believe it completes the tiling of the Simpson Lateral, this last 1,400 feet from its head-gates. So, we are working with them and we will be completing that work this -- this winter yet. So, this project is exciting, it's got a diversity of housing, so it will be a variety of people and a variety of Meridian City Council November 15, 2005 Page 180f65 housing styles As you drive through it really will be a unique subdivision for us in Meridian. And I appreciate the staff's help and we have worked together on this and because it was new it was a little different on a couple of the items and we had to figure that out. So, with that l'd stand for any questions. De Weerd: Council, any questions? Bird: I have none at this time, Mayor. Amar: Thank you. De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Okay. We have a couple people that have signed up. When I read your name I will indicate whether you are for or against. If you would like to provide testimony, please, come forward at that time. Sue Sullivan. Sullivan: I'm Sue Sullivan with the Idaho Transportation Department and I just kind of wanted to give you some information on some of the things that were referenced about the highway typical section. In October of '03 a response to the Public Hearing notice referenced a desired 10Q-foot setback or 135 to the back lot line, which would include your landscape buffer. And without taking too much time, I -- what we are looking at -- and I guess noting that this is in advance of the corridor study being completed -- is a four lane divided highway. We are hoping to maintain speeds of 55, if possible. Probably over time, with signalization, this will drop. But the goal is to try and maintain the travel time that there is now. We are -- have begun the corridor study and we did a -- we have done our stakeholder interviews and we have really heard really a consensus on the importance of this route for mobility. There is some who say that it should be a freeway. You know, we have to compromise. 1'm not sure we can get there. But, certainly, the importance of -- it is a highly mobile route -- seems pretty obvious to everyone. So, with that in mind, this divided highway allows for the margin of safety in the median for high speed opposing directions of traffic and it allows for a -- what we call a clear zone of 30 feet, which is the guidelines for a 55 mile an hour road to the outside road side. Donnell: Excuse me. Sue, could you use the pointer and that -- kind of red thing. Sullivan: Is it here somewhere? Donnell: Uh-huh. Attached there. Sullivan: Sure. That's your median. That's about 28 feet wide. As I said, the clear zone distance guidelines per AASHTO standards, which is what we follow on federally funded projects, is 30 feet. That also includes this little bit of shoulder here, too. So that would meet that standard. On the road size, this shows a relatively flat -- what we call traversable slope, if someone should leave the roadside they can recover from that potential accident without a roll over. So, that distance I think is about 24 feet there until you get to the ditch. And this section shows a roadside ditch, as opposed to what -- Meridian City Council November 15, 2005 Page 19 of 65 many consider this a -- that we should have urban treatment here, but I think the challenge we have to try and drain this water and find a place to both treat it and outlet this, using this -- what's considered somewhat of a rural approach, is more of a sustainable drainage design. You know, we can meet the needs of the drainage in the roadway section. Here is the multi-use pathway. It's ten foot wide, a little bit on each side. And this kind of shows the landscape buffer, so when you're in a residential area, because this needed to be ten feet above the center line of the highway to provide the noise abatement that will be needed, it sits up a little higher. This right of way line out to the back of this pathway is out at 100 feet. This section here shows in between intersections and this shows the full intersection at major section line routes. Let's see. I guess, you know, kind of coincidentally, this matches what our standard divided highway in a rural area, the right of way would be 200 feet and I guess this -- the issue that came up on the development was trying to -- there had been a history of some of these developments -- the response from ITD was a setback of 70 feet for the future right of way. When we started the corridor project and I started looking at this and this development was really starting to ramp up, you know, I started working on this typical and realized 70 foot really means that we are constrained to have this urban storm sewer section and it would allow us just enough room for -- we'd have to have a rolled curb, because with the high speeds a curb treatment is really not desirable, so it has to be a very flat curb. And, then, a clear zone behind that curb and your pathway could be in there somewhere. So, I guess for this particular development it's a bit of a decision on -- you know, there is some areas that already have this. Where do we draw the line and how do we move forward. What's the most effective way to do that. And, you know, one of the things I heard from the scoping interviews was the idea of, you know, don't -- on this corridor it's particularly important to have, really, a long-term vision. Maybe not just even the 20 years that we are looking at, but we are not going to go back in this corridor for quite sometime and let's make sure that we accommodate the future needs on this corridor. We are probably looking on the east end here in Meridian at 52,000 vehicles a day in 2030. So, that is Eagle Road, south end. It's very high volumes of traffic. So, I guess this is a very strategic arterial. I just wanted to kind of give you an idea of where we were coming at with this 200 foot right of way, because I realize it's very wide and it impacts the developments that come in significantly. I did have a -- back in October one of my comments -wand this is not necessarily particular to this subdivision, but in general this -- the idea of, you know, ITD wanting the frontage- backage road all the way parallel and, you know, maybe compromising with the needs of the residential developments at the end of these frontage-backage roads and I suppose -- I think we have come a long way. We have got a lot of connectivity in most of them, including this one. Sometimes it is pretty circuitous and I think when you get 52,000 vehicles a day on the highway, I think there is -- people are going to need to go to some kind of collector road to avoid getting out on the highway if possible. I think that covers the main things. I just really wanted to let you know what was behind some of this right of way setbacks. De Weerd: Thank you. Any other questions from Council? Nary: I have none, Mayor. Meridian City Council November 15, 2005 Page 20 of 65 Donnell: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mrs. Donnell. Donnell: Not a question, but since I drive that almost everyday, Chinden, was part of the stakeholder interview, one of them, on both Highway 44 and Highway 20-26, that's very good information to have. So, I appreciate you coming and sharing that. De Weerd: Thank you. We also have Chad -- okay. Thank you. Signed up for. Jerry Stevenson. Signed up against. Stevenson: First of all, I'd like to clarify how much -- De Weerd: If you will first state your name and address. Stevenson: Excuse me. Jerry Stevenson at 6040 North Ten Mile Road. De Weerd: Thank you. Stevenson: And before I start I'd like to request more than three minutes, no longer than ten minutes, to allow a little more fair access to time on this project. I was cut short during the Planning and Zoning committee and the applicant was able to come up here and make several comments that I never had a chance to comment on. So, I feel like I was really disadvantaged in that whole process and I'd just ask for a little more access to fair time. De Weerd: Sir, do you represent a group of people? Stevenson: Well, a group -- I represent my family and a group of livestock at our place there, so -- De Weerd: I have never had that constituency represented. Council? Wardle: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Wardle. Wardle: Certainly we have someone requesting it before his testimony has run long, so I would be amenable to that. De Weerd: Thank you. In light of your livestock I think that's very fair. So, we will set you at ten minutes. Stevenson: And also I want to ask did you -- I sent a letter or dropped a letter off personally. Did you receive that by any chance? Last week. Meridian City Council November 15, 2005 Page 21 of 65 De Weerd: It's in our public record. Yes. Stevenson: Okay. Basically, I have several issues and, first of all, I want to respond to some of the things the applicant said at the Planning and Zoning meeting I think persuaded some of the votes to go through and, first of all, was the -- let me go to a shot here -- could we go to a different plan that actually shows the Ten Mile Road and where the sewer lines might be coming in and -- let me see if I can find a pointer here. Canning: Madam Mayor, this is the most bird's eye view we have. Stevenson: Okay. Typically -- my place is this right here. There is a larger picture that we have of the development there. Okay. Thank you. That's the one I was looking for. Basically, one of the things that's stated right here -- there is a lift station that's put in right here and my property is this right here and there is a lift station approximately right there and now -- as far as sewer access, Kevin Amar made it sound like it would be real easy for me to just shoot right down there and tie right into that. It's not as easy as what it sounds, because, for one thing, I would have to be granted an easement. I would have to I guess settle a fee with him or something as far as getting easement to that and I'm not sure that that's really feasible to have any access to that sewer station right there. Okay. The other thing is is the water access, should I ever need to get access to any sewer or water to be annexed into the city, I'd have to go even another additional feet down here. So, I have measured that off and we are looking at about 300 feet or a hundred yards length, because my house actually sits on the north side over here, so it would not be that easy. If I have to go out to the street, come back down, and around to that, it would even be additional feet as well, versus going -- it would be approximately 90 feet out to the middle of the street from where my sewer is. The other thing that when I actually -- the sewer access is being accessed right here and over here is where the water -- two accesses are. I talked to the Public Works, they said that I -- they would be coming down here, but when I actually looked at the plot plan, I find out that they are actually coming in through over here and over here. Basically, I don't have any development taking place along here, so I'm basically being discriminated against on having this little piece of property right here of having any feasible access to any city sewer and water and I would project that in that design, if it went up to the street as it has been planned for a number of years, it would have to come down here, wait for the Black Cat Trunk to come in and, then, it would be tied in. Furthermore -- and as the letter stated, Steve Glasgow, when I did sell this piece of property right here in which they do have access to sewer and water services from, he made it very clear to me that this property right here would not have access to the city sewer and water services and this whole development here would have to wait until the Black Cat Trunk was put in. So, I was misled on that feature right there. The other issue I want to make here is the irrigation. There is no access to any irrigation from my property. Right now the way this whole thing is designed there is no accommodation from this lateral right here to provide me with any access. There could be access, but it would be pressurized and wouldn't allow for the flood irrigation. So, there would be an expense there of putting in sprinklers to the, you know, remaining sections of my property there. Silver Leaf Meridian City Council November 15. 2005 Page 22 of 65 Subdivision was supposed to provide that. However, that was one of the things they have failed to do is provide any access from this side over there. One of the other things that -- basically, Kevin also stated that the -- that there was the neighborhood meeting that we had on this whole thing, really, has not been -- I mean it was basically along side the street, lasted 15 minutes. Kevin Amar was not even there to listen to any objections, complaints, or anything. When I started asking the tougher questions, Shawn Nickle, who was just a representative, wasn't able to answer a lot of the questions and basically referred me over to Kevin Amar. I did call his office a couple times and left a few messages, even on his cell phone as well. I never got any response. So, I haven't really seen any effort for this development to even work any of my concerns I did put in there. The other thing that I have right now is my work requires high speed internet, because I do online presentations, which requires a high speed broad band and currently I have -- and that's also in there as well, a site survey. That is the only tower I have and Kevin made it sound like, because he also has wireless, that - - and he doesn't have any problems with houses being around him. However, what he didn't indicate was very misleading, because he has a two-story house and most of the houses around him are only one story. My house is the opposite. It only has -- it's only one story and if you take a look at the size of these houses and the shortness of their lots, they are going to have to be two story houses, minimum 5/12 roof pitch by their design and my internet access is going to be blocked, which is going to be this area right here. I serve off of a tower that is separate from the one that Kevin has access to. He has access to Foxtail and so all these houses right in here would basically be blocking my reception of receiving any signals for high-speed broadband. There are no other options. There is no cable, no DSL, and that's ~- part of the thing is there is no utilities coming down Ten Mile, I'm going to be discriminated against for that reason right there. So, that puts me at a disadvantage, too. We also have a livestock issue there, with several issues, with -- I mean there is several ways I'd like to maybe resolve some of this by going to larger lots in this area right here. Maybe going to a higher bermed six-foot fence. The other issue I have, too, is the plans only call for a five-foot fence. Kevin states that there is a six-foot vinyl fence, but it's not in the specs. And I also want to clarify, too, that this right here is supposed to be a fence right here, a solid vinyl fence right there, and I asked Kevin at the hearing, before it even started, if he -- what he's going to do there and he said he wasn't going to put a fence. Well, I went down to the P&Z and pulled the files and, sure enough, he does have a vinyl fence that's required there. So, there has been several things that have been promised that haven't been delivered on this particular Silver Leaf Subdivision. There is also a wood fence right here that borders them and it conflicts with all the other fences up here. Everything is vinyl fence. And, then, it goes to cut that down to a wood fence and also in his specification that was supposed to be a vinyl fence as well. And also these lots right here, that's supposed to be a solid vinyl fence, a five foot minimum, and that's a three foot minimum, so there is no privacy there, you know, from people coming in there, there is going to be kids playing in that particular drain field there and also the neighbors right here -- my whole -- excuse me, my mouth is really dry. My views are going to be completely shot. There is no views of the mountains with these particular size of houses on this particular size small lot. They are going to have to go up to two stories and if you take a look at some of those other elevations he showed, the other Meridian City Council November 15, 2005 Page 23 of 65 Planning and Zoning, they actually give the appearance of being a three story building and so extremely high and I'm going to be totally surrounded by two story homes, just overshadowing, looking over me, you know. everything I do. And I really have a problem with that. I'd like to see some kind of a buffer, if there is anything there, or remove the windows from the backside or space out these lots a little bit bigger. And there is a lot of concerns I have. I think there is a lot of things that could be resolved in this situation, but as is this whole -- I want to also point out that this is zoned for low density and not medium density at this particular time. I don't feel like this really has a good transition. There is also an issue right here of this guy over here, there is not -- the sidewalk stops there and it would be a little hazard. Same way with my particular piece of property. There is going to be a sidewalk there, a sidewalk down to this development, and there is a fence right there, goes right out to the road. So, transition- wise, at this particular point, I don't think this is a good transition with my particular property and this particular property as far as foot traffic, because, then, you will have to go out close to the road to get access to come back down and, then, you know, am I supposed to pick up the expense of putting a sidewalk in on my particular property, it puts me at a little more of a hardship on those particular issues as well. So, in summary, I don't feel like this particular proposal is the right proposal at this particular point. I would rather see this wait and force the public utilities down Ten Mile Road versus through these arterials -- these little arteries to allow me access when I -- when that is available, otherwise, there is not going to be any development -- on the other side of the road they are going to attach from the back side of the development and they have no reason to enter the road to access that. So, anyway, short on time. I apologize for taking so much time. Any questions? De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions? Bird: Madam Mayor, I do. De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: Mr. Stevenson, you said you have no of way watering your property? Stevenson: Well-- Bird: How did you water before? Stevenson: I have done a combination of different ways. There used to be another ditch down here. Actually, this -- this used to be farm ground. It's been even farmed this last year and they always allowed a side ditch to come down that had access to it. So, there always has been access to water. I have -- because on this -- on the south side of my house there is a driveway that I can, actually, partially, you know, pump the water from the ditch to -- Bird: Well, who do you pay water taxes to? Settler's? Meridian City Council November 15, 2005 Page 24 of 65 Stevenson: Settler's Irrigation District, yes. Bird: Okay. So, they have got to supply water to you. Stevenson: Correct. Bird: Nobody can stop that. No subdivision can. And did I understand you in saying that you sold the property that Silver Leaf Sub is on? Stevenson: Yes. Bird: Okay. And, then, I have also got a question, while you're standing here, for Len. Where does the North Slough take off there? Grady: The North Slough is quite a bit farther south. Bird: Where it takes off? Grady: Yeah. Bird: But does it lend to the flow south? Does the flow of the ground go south or do you have to have a lift station to take it down? He said there is a lift station out in the road. Grady: There is a lift station. In fact, it's in his property right there. Bird: So, you have to pick up and take it down to the North Slough? It doesn't drain naturally to the North Slough? Grady: Not until the North Slough is in. Bird: The North Slough isn't in? Grady: It's in the process. Bird: It's not through Paramount and Lochsa and that? Grady: Yeah. But it's still being pushed through to Locust Grove. Bird: Okay. Grady: But as far as capacity for that lift station, there is capacity for whatever development he would want and there is several opportunities for him to go ahead and sewer into that lift station, providing some sort of agreement can be worked out with the applicant, which I believe is the case. Bird: Madam Mayor, can I have a follow up, please? Meridian City Council November 15, 2005 Page 25 of 65 De Weerd: Uh~huh. Bird: Anna, this is probably for you while Mr. Stevenson is standing here. In Silver Leaf, if all these agreements are made that he was telling us, why aren't they being done? Are we giving out building permits -- are we giving out COs? Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Council member Bird, I can't answer that question. I didn't know there was an issue with the Silver Leaf one. I have not heard any research on it. Generally, we do not issue C of Os until they have met the conditions of approval. So, I don't -- Bird: That's what I thought. Canning: -- know if -- if this was expressed at the P&Z hearing for the Irvine Subdivision, it was not brought to my attention that it was an outstanding issue for Silver Leaf. So, I don't know how to answer your question. Bird: All the -- all he would have to do would be to call your office find out; right? Canning: Yes, sir. And, generally, our policy is if we started to issue building permits in error, we will put a hold on the number of C of Os or new -- we won't issue new permits if there is still some outstanding until we get those resolved or will only issue a certain number of certificates of occupancy. So, we generally try and work that out with the developer, but we do -- we make sure we have some stick. Bird: Thank you, Anna. Thanks. De Weerd: Any other questions? Okay. Thank you, sir. Okay. We have a Jerry de Weerd. That's all right. Are you signed up -- you are signed up against? Okay. Thank you. I like your last name. Okay. Is there anyone else who would like to provide testimony on this application? Okay. Would the applicant like to have your response? Amar: Yes. Thank you, Madam Mayor. Again, for the record, my name is Kevin Amar. Mr. Kinkela -- that's how you say his last name, by the way -- is here also to answer any technical questions with respect to the sewer or the irrigation pump station. With respect to Mr. Stevenson, the water -- with this project water will be constructed -- currently it ends at this point at the corner of the Silver Leaf project and it will be constructed up the entire western boundary of this project, which will mean that it also will be constructed in front of his property. I'm conferring with my design consultant to make sure that he has that in his design. But that will be, typically, something that we have had in our plan. With respect to sewer, the sewer lift station is here, which he has access to. In talking to Mr. Grady, we can provide a stub to the sewer also at this location and stub to the back of his property, but we are certainly not trying to preclude anybody from any sewer or water, irrigation, or anything else. When Mr. Stevenson sold this property -- we do have conditions of approval with Silver Leaf. I was the Meridian City CounCil November 15, 2005 Page 26 of 65 project manager or consultant for constructing Silver Leaf also and to my knowledge we have constructed Silver Leaf to the conditions of approval and met our obligations. Now, we will review that and verify that, but the current status of Silver Leaf is they have issued building permits, but no certificate of occupancies have been issued at this time. In fact, we just started -- or they just started pouring some foundations out there. So, we will review any of that and make sure we meet any of our conditions. But we did meet with staff at the time of issuing the building permits and had our fencing up. The items remaining were the completion of the sewer lift station or the witnessing of the testing, as well as some of the landscaping in order to get the occupancy permits. And, again, we will review that and make sure that all that is in order and make sure we not causing any further problems. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: Can I make a statement? We are not -- we are not judging Silver Leaf. I would just -- Kevin, alii was doing was showing him that way to -- if he had problems with that, to do it. We are not talking about Silver Leaf today. Tonight. Amar: Okay. Madam Mayor and Councilmember Bird, I do appreciate that. I do understand it. I just -- tonight's the first time I have heard of it being an issue. So, I know it's an issue in your mind also. I'm just saying we will address it to the fullest. And with respect to this project, Irvine, we can provide him access or -- greater access to the sewer at this location and the water will be in Ten Mile. So, he will certainly have access to that water. Fencing for this project will be six-foot vinyl fencing. I know on the landscape plan it says five foot. We have talked to our landscape consultant and asked them to start requiring six foot everywhere, because I like six foot better than five foot. So, we will revise that landscape plan and you will see that when the final plat hearing comes through. With respect to irrigation water, I do know it's state law we cannot preclude anyone from irrigation water and we certainly do not wish to do that. I do not -- again, we will review this with Mr. Stevenson, but I do not believe that his delivery is across this property. But we will have to verify that with him, as well as Nathan Draper with Settler's Irrigation District. This project is -- on the current Comprehensive Plan it is low density residential, but on the future land use plan for the north Meridian plan, it is designated as medium density residential. Either way this certainly fits the Comprehensive Plan as -- whether it's current or otherwise. You can ask for a bump up or down one way or the other for the current designation. So, we are in accordance with the Comprehensive Plan. In fact, have recommendation from staff for approval for this project. Again, I'll reiterate we appreciate working with the city and we will also work with Mr. Stevenson to resolve any of his questions and concerns. Shawn Nickle was at the neighborhood meeting, so if you'd like to speak with him. I was unable to make it that night, I had other obligations. But Mr. Nickle can certainly answer any questions. We have met with Mr. Meyers, which is the other neighbor. He is, actually, the -- he's on the board for the North Slough Lateral Association, so we meet with him often, because the Simpson Lateral that needs to be tiled, he gets to review those Meridian City Council November 15, 2005 Page 27 of 65 plans, so his concerns are addressed also. With that, I would stand for any further questions. De Weerd: Council? Mr. Wardle. Wardle: Madam Mayor, I have a couple questions. The first of my questions is -- Mr. Amar, it appears that some of these questions that were raised could have been answered very easily to the neighbor in person that raised them. Is there a reason that you didn't do that before this hearing? Amar: Madam Mayor, Councilmember Wardle, honestly, I -- I didn't hear any of these before this -- this night. I said hi to him this evening. We talked at the last Planning and Zoning meeting. So, I would be more than happy to answer these questions, but I -- I honestly didn't know that they were an issue. Wardle: Anna, I have a couple of questions and Mr. Amar raised a density issue. What are the -- if you can take just a minute and maybe tell me what the surrounding densities of the properties are. Did I hear that it was 5.6 for this particular application? Canning: It is 5.19 dwelling units per acre for this application. Oh, man. I think Lochsa probably came in at three and a half, something like that, dwelling units per acre. Silver Leaf, the applicant could give you a better feel for that one. Those are -- Lochsa takes up most of the section. So, that would be the -- the true indication. Wardle: And is Lochsa -- Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Uh-huh. Wardle: Is Lochsa Falls zoned R-8 as well? Okay. And maybe Mr. Amar can ask you. Silver Leaf is zoned R -~ Amar: The majority -- both Silver Leaf and Lochsa are R-4 PUD. Both of them are a PUD. Kelly Creek and Verona -- I believe Verona is zoned R-8. Verona is also in this area. Kelly Creek, a portion of it is zoned R-4 PUD and a portion of it is zoned R-8. All of those are in this square mile. Wardle: And -- Madam Mayor? Mr. Amar, your variance for even the R-8 zone is specifically directed at this area -- did I hear correctly -- how do you pronounce it? Is it - Canning: MEW. Wardle: Could you spell that for me? Canning: M-E-W. Meridian City Council November 15, 2005 Page 28 of 65 Wardle: M-E~W. Okay. Can you describe this product for me? Amar: I certainly can. And you are correct. The variance is this interior section. So, if we have -- I'll designate the blocks. This block on the north. This block on the south. These entire blocks and this block are all single-family detached housing. I have got some pictures here. So, they are alley loaded lots -- make sure I get the right pictures. And I will try to pass them -- Canning: Mr. Amar, do I have the picture? Amar: I don't know. I just -- well, yes, that is a picture, but it's -- it's a side view, so you don't see it as well. I will pass these down and you can at least look at-- De Weerd: What about those? Amar: That's a better indication. I'm sorry. That's a better indication. They are all alley loaded, single family, detached lots. So, the garage is in the rear of the lot. And, again, that is interior to the project closest to the clubhouse and the open space. The other product -- Anna, could you go back to the -- that will work. The other product -- any of these areas. So, this area and this area both have attached town-homes. Still set up for single ownership. They will all be on individual lot lines, but they are attached housing and with this common area in the front yard. So, those are attached townhomes, which are basically -- they are the same size as the -- the dwelling, actually, is the same size as the detached -- detached alley loaded lots, it's just a different product type and a different type of house. It's for the people that still want yards, but want absolutely no maintenance, because there will really be no yard maintenance, other than a small area in their front yard. The exterior of this project is an R-8 zone and has the -- in fact, under the current R-8 zone, it exceeds the R-8 zone. The current R-8 standards are -- allow a smaller lot than what is here. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: Isn't ~- all those interior lots are smaller than an R-8 lot -- smaller than the 6,500? Amar: Madam Mayor -- Bird: Isn't that what you're asking for in the CUP? Amar: -- Councilmember Bird -- correct. There are -- in fact -- I guess the current standard is, actually, a 5,000 square foot lot for an R-8 standard. But they are smaller than that and that is for the variety of housing styles. Bird: Okay. Meridian City Council November 15, 2005 Page 29 of 65 Wardle: Madam Mayor, just a follow up on that comment. What percentage of the lots would you say are substandard from that, that are included in the variance? Not the acreage, the percentage of lots. Amar: I'm trying to give you the percentage. I'm going to do this in my mind, so we will see. The -- there is 20 percent that are the detached alley loaded lots. Twenty percent of the lots. And 31 percent that are -- I'm sorry. There is 20 percent that are the attached -- the town-home lots and 30 percent that are the detached alley loaded lots. So, 50 percent of it is -- is that style and, then, 50 percent of it is the standard R-8 style lots. Wardle: Okay. De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions, Council? Bird: I have none at this point, Mayor. De Weerd: Any questions -- any comments regarding the pathway or the berm per the testimony provide by ITD? Are you consistent with those standards? Amar: The right of way that they are requesting is actually 100 feet -- or that they are doing their current study at 100 feet and I think that is for this, as well as future projects. What we have come back with -- and this was after a number of meetings with Ms. Sullivan -- is providing 90 feet from 500 feet towards the intersection to provide the multiple turn bays that are needed and, then, matching the existing 70 feet that is the balance of this section. And I think it's almost all the way back to Boise at this point. I know she's requesting the 100 feet, but given the existing conditions out here and the project as it sits, we are meeting what she needs with ultimate build out in this area. I know she did mention the urban section versus the rural section and it has to do with drainage. We have done significant amounts of testing out here. All of our drainage will be underground or in seepage beds. So, the drainage in this area can be accommodated with an urban section, rather than a rural section. And we looked at that from a drainage standpoint. De Weerd: Yeah, but I thought the rural section was the same as the urban section in the needed right of way. Amar: The picture that she showed is only the urban section. So, this section in here, there is about -- I'm not a traffic engineer, so I'm sure I'm going to have some numbers that are wrong. But there is 50 feet from the edge of pavement over that is side slope and there is a borrow ditch area in here and other things that the urban section in that area is decreased, because you have -- you don't need the borrow ditch, you don't have the side slope, because you don't have the area to get into the borrow ditch. So, that section is reduced. Hopefully that answers your question. De Weerd: No, but -- Anna. Meridian City Council November 15, 2005 Page 30 of 65 Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, it might help to give you -- just back up a little bit and -- De Weerd: Thank you. Canning: -- give you a little bit of history on this project. It did come in under the old code and in case any of you were confused with the discussion versus -- this project versus the current R-8 standard, that's what was going on. The conversation was this came under the old code. The R-8 standards probably changed the most of any in the existing zoning or -- from the old zoning ordinance to the new zoning ordinance. So, Mr. Amar submitted under the old ordinance. He came in with a PUD. The property surrounding this all had contributed a 70-foot right of way for Chinden. Seventy feet from center-line. So, we anticipated that that would be the same. His drawings -- his first set of drawings indicated the 70-foot right of way. After discussions with Ms. Sullivan, she felt she needed more at the intersection and Mr. Amar redrew his plan to have the 90 feet at the intersection. Subsequent to him designing for that one, meanwhile, we have been holding this up at the Planning and Zoning Commission trying to get an application that we could take forward, even though it had been submitted for several months at this point. Several months before the Planning and Zoning Commission hearing. Ms. Sullivan came back and had the opportunity to do additional study and that's when she realized she needed the 100 feet. Mr. Amar said, no, I'm not going to redraw it. I need to go forward is basically what happened. And staff supported it in that we had held it up for a number of re-drawings and a number of months trying to resolve this issue. We felt that given that there was only 70 feet of right of way on the -- basically the rest of the section, that we would go ahead and put it forward. So, although we have tried to support ITD in their acquisition needs, this just had kind of come a little bit too late to go back to accommodate the 100-foot. Now, the 100-foot is a rural section. If they took it -- if they did the urban section, from the testimony tonight, my understanding is that they can save about 20 feet and that's where that 70-foot section comes from. So, hopefully, that provides a little detail on processing. De Weerd: Thank you. I'm sorry. Canning: Hopefully that explains a little bit why there is the discrepancy between what ITD is hoping to achieve and the way the applicant has drawn it. De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Wardle. Wardle: Madam Mayor, a question for Anna. You mentioned that this application is under the old code, coming forward with a PUD. What portion of the project would need variance under our current code? Would it all fit? Canning: I was trying to look at that. I think everything on the perimeter pretty much would fit. The current code requires I think a 4,000 square foot minimum for the alley Meridian City Council November 15, 2005 Page 31 of 65 loaded or attached lots and they are at about 3,880. So, they are a little bit shy on those interior lots. They would have to request -- these townhouse lots are only 33 something. So, really, the ones that most need it are the attached unit lots that are in the 3,300. So, it's primarily these areas. These are very close, but they are still a little bit shy. And the ones on the perimeter would meet the current R-8 standards. Wardle: Thank you. De Weerd: Anything you would like to add? Amar: Not unless you have further questions. Grady: Madam Mayor, I'm looking for some clarification on the water. You said you are taking that up Ten Mile? Because it's not shown on your preliminary plat. Amar: We will get Mr. Stevenson water. My engineer just said we don't have to take it across his frontage. But somehow, one way or the other, he will get water stubbed to his property. I think that's the ultimate desire, at least on my part, to get Mr. Stevenson water. I guess we can make that a condition of approval, that we will work with the engineering department to provide a water stub for Mr. Stevenson and that may be through a rear lot line. I know I looked at that with Mr. Grady -- or it may be along Ten Mile. So, the purpose is to get Mr. Stevenson the utilities to his property so he's not precluded from them, we will make it a condition of approval that we will have sewer and water to his property. De Weerd: Does that satisfy your concern, Len? Grady: Well, I'm still not clear. Your plat doesn't show the 12 inch water line in Ten Mile, so I'm not sure whether that was required for your pre-plat or not. Amar: No. I think I misspoke. That's what happens when I speak and engineers don't. What my engineer is telling me is there is -- the 12-inch line is not required in that section in front of Mr. Stevenson, but for the balance along the front it is required. Would you like Chad Kinkela to address this? Grady: Yes. De Weerd: Yes, please. Kinkela: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, my name is Chad Kinkela, Bailey Engineering, 1500 East Iron Eagle Drive. Standard condition of approval from the City of Meridian is all utilities -- in this case it would just be a water main, would be required in Ten Mile. So, the out parcel would have water stubs on both the north and the south end, so water would be available and he definitely -- he has access to the sewer lift station right now, because that sewer lift station sits on a common lot that has a utility Meridian City Council November 15, 2005 Page 32 of 65 easement that is recorded on it for ~~ for the sewer lift station. So, I'll stand for any questions you have about that. De Weerd: Okay. Len, does that -- Grady: That clears it up. Thank you. De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Council, any questions? Amar: Just to clarify one thing that -- that Chad stated. The sewer lift station does sit on an easement, although I'll commit to providing an actual sewer stub to his property, so there is no question. He brought up the question of access and various things of that nature. We will provide a stub to his property, an actual sewer stub to his property through this development. So, there is no question as to access or the rights of that use. Now, I think he will still have to annex in the future to Meridian, but that's not something that I'll require or contest. De Weerd: Okay. Anna. Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, from Mr. Stevenson's testimony it sounds as if he's looking toward the future -- planning toward the future to perhaps -- the opportunities for redeveloping in that site and given that, Mr. Amar has agreed to stub sewer and water and perhaps it's best to stub those in the form of stubbing this street to the rear of the property. At that time if Mr. Stevenson did want to redevelop, he could gain a few lots and take access within this subdivision and not have to access Ten Mile directly. Just something for Council to consider. De Weerd: Well, that's like putting the applicant on the spot. Canning: I thought -- I had kind of whispered to him, but I think he thought I just mean sewer and water stubs, but I meant a street stub, so -- Amar: I heard the whisper for sewer and water. We can certainly provide that access. I don't -- yeah. That's fine. We will provide a stub to that -- to that rear property line. So, for pointer purposes. Extend this street, which is called on the plat Stone Pine Street, the additional 90 feet to rear property line for Mr. Stevenson, which, obviously, would have sewer and water both stubbed in that street. That should certainly answer any questions with respect to access. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: In doing that, you would be taking 34 foot out -- 17 out of each lot or taking the 34 out of all of one lot? If you took 34 out of the one lot, would you just take the line off and make it -- make that one lot a nice size lot? Make it one lot, instead of two? Meridian City Council November 15, 2005 Page 33 of 65 Amar: Anna, is the overhead working? I'll do a quick drawing, then, we can have an idea. Okay. This isn't to scale. When it gets to scale it will be more -- I'm sure more accurate than this. But this will give the general concept and the general idea. I think that will probably -- at least for discussion purposes. So, this is Stone Pine. It would extend in this location here. This area would, then, be divided into lots and, then, this area would also be reconfigured in order to accommodate that. So, some of the area -- depending on the extension of Stone Pine, the majority of the area will come out of this lot -- it looks like 15. Some small area would come out of -- Bird: Fourteen. Amar: -- Lot 14 and, then, the lot configuration would be redistributed accordingly. Bird: But you keep in the five lots in that area? Amar: Yes, sir. Bird: And they would just have to shrink down? Amar: They will shrink some, but without drawing -- Bird: I was going to say, they got to shrink if you're taking 34 feet out. Amar: Certainly. Well, we are actually taking 50 feet out, because the right of way is actually 50 feet. Bird: That's right. Excuse me. Fifty feet. Amar: It will take this area -- these -- both of these lots are rather large, so they have room to do that. Bird: Well, they are large in the back-side, but they are not up in the front. Amar: Correct. But the result for his bordering property would be the same number of lots adjacent to his property. Bird: Okay. Thank you. De Weerd: Okay. Anything else from Council? Okay. Any other comments? Amar: No. Thank you. De Weerd: Thank you. Staff? Okay. I'm sorry. Okay. Council, what would you like to do? Meridian City Council November 15, 2005 Page 34 of 65 Wardle: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Wardle. Wardle: Just my comments. And certainly the offers made by the applicant are certainly fair. My concern was not with services to adjacent property owners. I will say - - and for the record that in the past the applicant's been -- done developments that have honored their word and, certainly, that wasn't really even my consideration. I have a concern with the density of the current project and the number -- the percentage of lots that fall below what would even be our standard today. So, that's one of the issues that I'm wrestling with. De Weerd: Okay. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: Does any of the Council need anymore public -- if not, I move that we close 8, 9 and 10. Donnell: Second. De Weerd: Okay. Motion to close the public hearings for 8, 9 and 10. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSTAIN. De Weerd: Okay. Any discussion or do I have a motion? Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: I'll give a little discussion and, then, see how it goes for the deal. I, too, am quite concerned on the size of the lots. If this was in a downtown area where we had public transit coming through and stuff that would be great. I don't like it out in the urban deal. It's -- the lots are ridiculously small. That's my opinion. And I cannot support this application as it is drawn, as the preliminary plat is right now. De Weerd: Okay. Any other comments? Okay. Council, I'll look to you for a motion. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Meridian City CounCil November 15. 2005 Page 35 of 65 Bird: I move for denial of AZ 05-038, including the Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law on the annexation and zoning of 38.5 acres from RUT to R-8 zone for Irvine Subdivision by Dyver Development, LLC -- and may I ask the attorney a question? De Weerd: Uh-huh. Bird: Do I need to give a reason on the annexation and zoning? Nary: Not in the city's interest is enough. Bird: Okay. That's my motion. Wardle: Second. De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion to deny Item No.8. Is there any discussion? Okay. Mr. Berg. Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, abstain; Wardle, yea; Donnell, nay. MOTION CARRIED: TWO AYES. ONE ANY. ONE ABSTAIN. De Weerd: Okay. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: We have denied, but I will make a motion and I will give a reason for the applicant, because I -- you know, I don't want him to think that it's a hundred percent -- I'm a hundred percent against it, but I just can't buy off on those small -- anyway, I move that we deny PP 05-037, for the reason of lots being too small, too many. Too small. Wardle: Second. De Weerd: Okay. It sounds like there is some discussion. Mr. Wardle. Wardle: Well, Madam Mayor, further discussion, I agree with comments from Mr. Bird that the specific lot size and density is my major concern and the percentage of those smaller lots within the application, the plat itself. De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Bird, any further discussion? Bird: Just that I would like to add that that is because of also the denial of the annexation is part of the denial of the preliminary plat. Donnell: And Madam Mayor? Meridian City Council November 15, 2005 Page 36 of 65 De Weerd: Mrs. Donnell. Donnell: Just as a comment and the reason that I would vote against the denial, is that I believe that the staff recommended that this should be approved, that they have worked through these issues, and whether it, you know, meets the standard now under this code, it certainly did when it was first submitted and so I would have -- I support staff's recommendation. De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. If there is no further discussion, Mr. Berg. Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, abstain; Wardle, yea; Donnell, nay. MOTION CARRIED: TWO AYES. ONE NAY. ONE ABSTAIN. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: I move we deny CUP 05-039 for the reason of not passing the annexation and zoning. Wardle: Second. De Weerd: Okay. Motion to deny Item No. 10. If there is no discussion, Mr. Berg, will you call roll. Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, abstain; Wardle, yea; Donnell, nay. MOTION CARRIED: TWO AYES. ONE ANY. ONE ABSTAIN. Item 11: Public Hearing: FPM 05-001 Request for a Final Plat Modification to remove Final Plat condition to construct a six foot fence inside Nampa Meridian Irrigation District easement for Southern Sprinas Subdivision No.2 by Roger Michener and Lawrence Ross - southeast corner of Meridian Road and Overland Road: De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Okay. Item No. 11 is Public Hearing FPM 05-011. I will -- yes. Mr. Rountree. I will go ahead and open this Public Hearing with staff comments. Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is the Southern Springs project and as you know it's located on the southeast corner of Meridian and Overland. It's a miscellaneous application to modify a final plat condition, which, of course, has its genesis in the preliminary plat, but we are only dealing with the final plat tonight. The request -- the specific request is to remove Condition H-3, which states that a six-foot vinyl fence -- that there will be a six foot vinyl fence between Southern Springs, which is Meridian City Council November 15, 2005 Page 37 of 65 the commercial development, and Running Brook Estates, which is the residential development. And this fence was the matter of substantial discussion at the original preliminary plat hearing. The applicant got tentative approval from North Meridian Irrigation District to put the fence on the -- north is pointing to the left of the page. So, on the east side of the pathway and so they went ahead and constructed the pathway. But, then, they were not able to gain North Meridian Irrigation District's final approval to put the fence on the east side of the pathway. So, what they are asking for tonight is to be allowed to put the fence on the west side of the pathway. They did hold a neighborhood meeting to discuss this and the neighbors have agreed that -- that it would be acceptable to them to put the fence on the west side of the pathway. Their main concern at this point -- the original concern is that people would be going over the irrigation facility and coming into their yards, because there was no fence to keep them from doing that. I think their concern now is more with headlights and traffic and noise from the commercial development. So, there does seem to be a consensus. The applicant has expressed to those neighbors that he will do whatever they ask him to. One of the things they are asking, though, staff doesn't necessarily agree with and it's with regard to an access point in the fence. The neighbors would like to see a continuous fence from this -- what lines up with this property line all the way down to the end of the property line. Staff is asking that there is a break in that fence, so that folks that -- that are the commercial development are also potential users of that pathway, so we would like to see an opening to that pathway. And I have got some blow-ups here. There is a tree right in front of this gateway. This is what the residents would like as an alternative -- the first preference is for no break in the fence. Their second preference is for an offset, so that there is -- again, to block traffic and light coming through that way. My concern is that this becomes a very -- what I would consider dangerous area to be in with regard to the pathway. You're kind of blocked in on either side. Again, there is a tree immediately north of this that will block light. So, this is the -- you can see the tree here and how it swings around. The pathway has been constructed and it does swing around that. So, we would like to see a clear opening in the fence at this location and, then, we would like to see the fence end where the pathway turns and goes into Southern Springs No.3. We would like to see that end right at that edge of the pathway there. And not to fence off this little corner area, which, again, would -- from my training from the police chief, would seem to be an unsafe area to have a little enclosed fence area, so -- those are the primary issues we see at this time. I have some recommended language that would accomplish those and I will read it one time and, then, if you would like to read -- me to read it again for the motion maker or some version of it, I would be happy to do that, but I will go ahead and read it now. Regarding the original H-3, it says: The applicant shall be required to construct a minimum six foot vinyl fence along -- and, then, you would strike out the east property line along -- the western easement of the Ten Mile Creek, beginning approximately 400 feet south of Overland Road right of way lines. And, then, new language that would say: Said fence shall provide an opening consistent with the site plan labeled CU 03, except that, one, the opening of the fence shall not be offset as depicted on the plan, shall be a clear opening and two fence strips that terminate where the pathway leaves the easement and, then, south to connect to Southern Springs No.3. We also did receive comments from the police department about the fence. I don't think that they were aware of some Meridian City Council November 15, 2005 Page 38 of 65 of the finer details. They didn't comment on that. They just commented on the general location of the fence. And they did express concern that they thought -- their first choice, if there had to be a fence, was it would be an open vision fence. Again, this probably doesn't concern the neighbors -- address the neighbors' concerns about headlights going into their property. We thought that another choice for Council to make might be that there -- you have a four foot solid fence with the two feet of open that we sometimes see and this allows a little more surveillance and that would be consistent with our open space requirements that we often see, but would block the headlights from the property. So, if you were to do that, you could just add another clause onto that condition I read before that said such fence shall be a maximum of four foot, solid fencing with open vision fencing to a height of six feet. With that I will end staff's presentation and answer any questions you may have. De Weerd: Okay. Council, any questions for staff at this time? Donnell: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mrs. Donnell. Donnell: Anna, where is Calderwood? Clear over there? Canning: Right there. Donnell: Okay. So, the small clearing that you were talking about is just a bit north of Calderwood, then? Canning: Yes, Ma'am. Donnell: And this fence would run all the way along Ten Mile Creek? Canning: From here to there. Donnell: Okay. Thank you. De Weerd: Okay. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: Anna, did I understand you that you're recommending -- that the staff is recommending a four-foot high solid fence with two-foot see-through trellis or whatever? Canning: Yes, sir. That would seem to address at least some of the concerns from the police department. Meridian City Council November 15, 2005 Page 39 of 65 Bird: Why would -~ why would four foot -- you know, a lot of young kids aren't four foot. I -- I don't mind a four foot solid fence, but I don't like anything on top of it, even if it is a trellis opening. Most of the walkways that we have put in in subdivisions and stuff, little pathways, the police department has recommended four foot maximum height. And I also understand we have got the problem of maybe lights hitting the neighbors, so I have a problem of having it on the west side and having it six foot tall, because I'm scared of safety for the children and young people. Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the condition you're specifically modifying has the height of the fence, so that is up to Council's decision on what you may want to do there. De Weerd: Anna, what is code as far as pathways and open space and parks in the fencing requirements? Canning: I believe that the current code says it shall be six foot open or four foot solid and it does not -- for micro paths we allow the four foot solid, with the two foot lattice, but for open spaces I believe we changed to -- I can look it up. I'm a little unclear, because we changed it a number of times, but if you would like, I will take just a moment and look it up. De Weerd: Okay. While you do that I will open it up for additional testimony and we will ask you back for your answers. I do have several people who have signed up. When I call your name if you would like to provide testimony, please, come folWard at that time. Jeffrey Rowell. Wardle: We haven't heard from the applicant. De Weerd: I'm sorry. Yeah, I guess I would let the applicant talk. I'm sorry. I'll be there in just a moment. Sorry. Koga: Well, Madam Mayor, City Council Members, my name is David Koga with the Land Group at 462 East Shore Drive. First of all, I just want to put a little bit of history, just to note what we have went through at this point. After that evening -- was two years ago, City Council, we all agreed that we would put this fence on the east side of the pathway. We changed all our drawings and we put a special detail with our drawing to get a removable fence on the east side and this removable fence would be really easy for Nampa-Meridian Irrigation District, if they needed to get into the ditch to work on it, they can take it out, do the work, and put it in back there. They could even tear it down if they wanted, because according to their license agreement they can basically do what they want to do. So, we felt pretty safe that what we are proposing to Nampa-Meridian would work very well. We put together drawings. We have put together a final design to the City of Meridian. We also turned into Nampa-Meridian Irrigation -- it was December of 2003. They reviewed our drawings, we got some comments back, we made all the changes, turned it back into Nampa-Meridian, they came back again with some comments, we made some changes again, came back and, then, they finally Meridian City Council November 15, 2005 Page 40 of 65 approved it, but never once -- they never had any comments with the fence, the removable fence to the east side. So, we felt everything was going to be fine to install this fence, because we were in compliance with the neighbors over there. We went as far -- or we did not, but Nampa-Meridian even put together the draft, their attorney, on their license agreement to -- and it even states right here under their Exhibit C to construct a solid fence approximately 15 feet into the district's easement for the drain. So, I mean they even -- at least through the attorney, have, you know, complied to put the fence and so we felt really good about this until we -- as Anna mentioned, until we started to put that fence and all of a sudden they came back said, wait a minute, you guys can't do that. So, we have had a meeting with their staff, with their -- the director and their board, three different times, and each time we were denied on this fence, which it went -- it was very clear in our drawing. So, that put us back to meet with your staff to come up with an agreement. We thought the best way to do this is to have -- put together this application and have a neighborhood meeting and, basically, state the situation. In the neighborhood meeting -- not everybody in the neighborhood were there. There were 13 people there and with those 13 people we had a long discussion, thought it would be best to install a six foot fence on the west side of the pathway, which would be putting that fence right along the easement, so we wouldn't have to worry about Nampa-Meridian. It is true that not all the members were there and another factor -- sense, then, when I did receive the staff report in regard to the six openings or one opening, the applicant or client, they really -- they don't care whether there is no openings or one or two openings. I know that the neighbors are concerned with that. It is true that there is that one little jog in the fence that would make a natural opening in there, because of the tree, but at the same time we can understand their concerns also. One of the neighbors I think will talk and discuss a little further in regard to the issue of a six foot fence along the pathway and whether that is a safety issue or not, because we discussed with different possible -- possible buffers along there. Case in point, one of them had to do with maybe a combination of shrubs and trees, but they felt that was not a very good buffer, because people can hide in the trees and shrubs -- or the shrubs easier than just a fence. They feel that -- if you notice, this pathway from here to there is a straight shot and when an officer is able to come over here, they could really easily shine their -- their headlights through the pathway and literally you could even drive through there. The pathway is 12 feet wide. The fence is five feet away from the pathway. So, it's a pretty open -- very open pathway that they could be able to observe the pathway. So, basically, I'm just kind of bringing up some facts. Like I said, my client was not able to meet here tonight, but they just want to let you be aware that they want to put the fence also. They complied with the neighbors that evening to put a six-foot fence. The fence will be at the same elevation as the pathway, so we will make sure it's high enough it will be able to block headlights in the back area. And that's it. Any questions? De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Council, any questions? Bird: I have none, Mayor. Rountree: I have none. Meridian City Council November 15, 2005 Page 41 of 65 De Weerd: Mrs. Donnell? Donnell: I'm thinking. I may come back to-- De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Okay. I'm sorry. Mr. Rowell. If you will, please, state your name and address for the record. Rowell: My name is Jeff Rowell at 1707 South Marshwood Place. Madam Mayor, Council, staff. My property borders this development on two sides. The north I have got about 60 foot here. They have already built a five-foot berm and placed an eight- foot fence on it. Then, I have about 200 feet along here. I had a little speech I was going to give tonight. I'm changing it after listening to some of the other issues that have been brought up. This path is problematic. If it wasn't there, then, I would think that the Council would give our neighborhood the same consideration that other neighborhoods here in the city have. If you go down to Wal-Mart, if you go behind Wal- Mart, it's a six-foot solid block fence with no openings in it. Behind Sportsman's the same thing. If you continue down Fairview to Cherry Lane to the new Crossings commercial development that was put in there, that's an eight foot solid block fence for those neighbors. So, putting in the pathway has created a problem. This whole new development down here, there is no bike path down there. This pathway goes from here to here and that's it. When we brought this up a year ago, the developer didn't really want to put it in, we didn't want it in, the Nampa water district doesn't want it in. Okay. The city wanted it in. And I understand that they have a master plan and they want pathways for people to walk. However, when you drive down here, you're kind of lulled into a sense of security and see all these trees there. I have had discussions with the irrigation district. At anytime they can come in and remove those trees and they have done that anywhere. Now, imagine if that was your backyard, which is an underhand stone's throw across that ditch, looking at one of the largest commercial developments in one of the busiest intersections probably in the state, that's what we are going to have to look at. Noise, lights, and all those issues. So, the standard that we are setting for our neighborhood is so much lower with a four foot fence you guys are talking about compared to other neighborhoods, I can't believe it. I mean we would have to go back in at our expense and put up, again, our own fences and we are going to have an expectation of privacy. And you want to talk about safety, let me point out something we have done here. When the developer put that asphalt strip in there, okay, the strip goes right to the edge of the ditch. So, if you have got a kid back there riding on a bike and they are riding on asphalt, which they kind of ride fairly fast on, and they lose control, there is no buffer there, there is no grass, those is no strip for them to get stopped on, they go right off into the ditch. And we know that this isn't a natural stream. This isn't some Norman Rockwell swimming hole, fishing hole, this is an irrigation ditch and every year we hear the public service announcements about kids going in their ditches and drowning. So, we have created an attractive nuisance here. And I think that the city attorney can point that out. This is a dangerous situation. It's full of shrubs, trees, a kid goes down in there, you're not going to see them. Okay? It's not open and clean. It's not like an attractive greenbelt. It's a drainage ditch. I support Meridian City Council November 15. 2005 Page 42 of 65 the developer and I understand that they have to move the fence because of the issues with the irrigation district. I don't care if it's on the west side, but anything less than a six foot fence and we are not going to have the same standard you have in every other development that adjoins one of the largest commercial developments here at this intersection. This intersection is going to be looking like Fairview and Eagle pretty soon and that's what I want you to consider. Okay? De Weerd: Thank you. Any questions for-- Rountree: I have none. De Weerd: Thank you. Rawley Bunch? Bunch: I'm Rawley Bunch. 1797 South Marshwood Place. Mayor. Council. I live on Marshwood Place and my house -- the lady was talking about that opening in that fence. My property is there. Them trees is -- that tree is so old -- I'm waiting for every wind to come up for it to blowout and blow down. And they are talking about the bushes and the trees on the berm there. Well, every year I watch everything and all you can see is open ground until -- the only thing that comes up and looks nice is when they plant corn there. Well, that's out now. But what I'm saying is that six foot fence is still -- is nice. We all agree to that, a six foot fence, and they had a -- I don't have any of the paper, I didn't bring it, but they had a modification drawing and it showed the access road -- that's what I call it, an access road, and the pathway. They had it all in one. Well, the path -- the access road is nine foot and they showed a four foot for the berm and they were just going to have bushes on it. Well, now they are going to put the fence supposedly on the east side of the access road and we said, well, why don't you put a walkway on that side of the fence, because somewhere in one of the lines it states that the people would walk for access to all of the hamburger joints, you know, places what they are putting in there. And I -- and according to one other contractor, he said, well, they wouldn't use that walkway, pathway, whatever you want to call it. And the point is I think they would, because right now the people. even from Meridian Greens, walk that pathway and I'm -- I'm retired and I can look out there, I can hear the voices from all the way down walking, yelling, and can I say this: When school gets out and they start riding their bicycles that way and they say get their hamburgers or whatever, right now just the workers there, that creek and pathway is so full of paper, anything you want, cans, whatever. But I say that you should have the six foot solid fence, tan, because even a six foot fence, I went out, I measured the six foot from where they are going to put the fence, and still light sort of come through. But that six-foot fence would do a little bit. If they could go higher, beautiful. But that's about what I say. De Weerd: Thank you. Myrna Bunch also signed up for. Okay. Darrell Tomlinson. We all know what you have signed up for. Tomlinson: I'm Darrell Tomlinson. I also live in the Running Brook Subdivision, 1817 Marshwood. I wasn't one of the 13 at the neighborhood meeting that agreed to what's been settled. The major issue is two years ago when we had the City Council meeting, Meridian City Council November 15, 2005 Page 43 of 65 all of us neighbors left the meeting feeling that we had all compromised, that the City Council would get their bike path, we would get a six foot vinyl fence to separate us from the development and the bike path, and the developer wouldn't have to build the berm to eat up his footage on the thing. But we all left with three pieces of the pie fairly equally shared we thought. Well, tonight we are here and the residents are giving up half of their share of the pie -- of their one-third piece of the pie. So, you know, my feeling is my neighbors agreed and I have worked in corporate America for 35 years, my neighbors agreed to an agreement, they allowed the fence on the west side of the path. I disagree with that, because I feel like when we agreed two years ago it was final. It wasn't until I raised a big stink about the fact that the six foot vinyl fence was an issue, because the developer wanted to do away completely with the fence and it wasn't until we had the neighborhood meeting and we all agreed that when we left the meeting two years ago that there was going to be three things, there would be a 20-foot easement for the Nampa Irrigation, there would be a six foot vinyl fence, and there would be a hard improved surface on the west side of the fence. And so now we are being talked about, we are going to get a four-foot vinyl fence with a break in it and, you know, what happened to all the agreement two years ago? You know, all I'm saying we are asking for is to protect us, put the fence up, and protect us from the bike path and protect us from the development. We are only asking for a six-foot, non-break, vinyl fence. De Weerd: Thank you, sir. Any questions, Council? Okay. And Linda Tomlinson also signed up. Would you like to provide testimony at this time? Okay. Thank you. Any other testimony on this application? Canning: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes. Canning: I'm sorry. Was there someone else? De Weerd: No. Canning: Okay. The deputy fire marshal -- I forgot his title for a moment. Has asked me to indicate that because of the length of the fence, if it is a six foot tall fence, he would like to see two gates with locks that -- so that he could access that area to fight any vegetation fires that he may need to. Oh. And also, Madam Mayor, I did look up the standard and it is for open space and micro-path both is a four-foot solid or a six foot open. De Weerd: Or a six foot -- Canning: Open vision. De Weerd: Okay. So, that is what is allowed, the four foot solid or the six-foot open and open means what? Meridian City Council November 15, 2005 Page 44 of 65 Canning: We have a definition. I don't remember the percentage that can be open. I apologize, but I have got it all open, I can look real fast. Hold on. De Weerd: Is that something similar to what Council saw on Volterra? Canning: No. That would not meet our definition of open. We have tightened up the open definition to be more open than what you saw on Volterra. De Weerd: Volterra is what we saw last week with -- it was somewhat slatted and it had the lattice on top. Donnell: You can still kind of see when you go quickly. So, open is chain link or spaces between the slats. De Weerd: Probably. But I don't think chain link is really what the city was looking for. I would hope not. Donnell: Me, too. De Weerd: While staff looks that up, would the applicant like to have his response? If you will state your name for the record? Koga: David Koga with the Land Group. De Weerd: Thank you. Koga: First of all, Anna, this -- we would be back on the old ordinance when we did this project I could be wrong, but I thought if there is a micro-path, that you are required a four foot fence or a six foot open fence, but if it's an open space, you can put a six foot fence in there and I would feel that this would be a little more like an open space, instead of a -- instead of a micro-path. And I think there is also some statements -- if the micro-path is longer than so many lots, then, it could be higher. I might be incorrect on that. But, anyway, basically, what I'm trying to say is that we did have that neighborhood meeting that night and I know my client would feel very strongly that we were trying to come up with a compromise with the neighbors and we all felt that evening that a six foot fence would be the best way to approach it. So, it would be nice if we could have some type of adjustment or -- in regard to the fence on this, so we can make sure we do have a six foot fence for the neighbors over there. A lockable -- the two lockable gates along there I think would be all right, because that would be more use for -- for the firemen here and I think the neighbors would probably be open for that. I'm not talking for them, of course, but -- De Weerd: Thank you. Any questions for the applicant? Bird: I have none. Meridian City Council November 15, 2005 Page 45 of 65 De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Mr. Koga is correct that the former code only had a specific standard set for micro-paths and not for open space. This application did come in under the old code. The preliminary plat was vested under the old code and the final plat as well. Regarding the definition of closed vision by today's standards, it is -- 20 percent is the cutoff. So, if you're going to impede vision by more than 20 percent -- and that's the vertical spacing, then, it would be considered a closed vision fence. Just considerably different than the Volterra example that was brought up. That was probably 80 percent -- it was definitely a closed vision fence under the new ordinance. De Weerd: Okay. Council. Anymore questions? Bird: I have none, Mayor. Donnell: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mrs. Donnell. Donnell: I'd like to make a motion that we close the Public Hearing on Item No. 11. Bird: Second. De Weerd: Okay. Motion to close the Public Hearing on Item 11. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Donnell: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mrs. Donnell. Donnell: May I just have some clarification? De Weerd: You bet. Donnell: We both look tired. From staff. De Weerd: Thank you. Donnell: It's getting late, isn't it? Canning: Must be. I'm tired, too, so -- Meridian City Council November 15, 2005 Page 46 of 65 Donnell: Without me digging through these letters that I have been looking at, because my eyes aren't focusing well, tell me again is the staff recommending a six foot fence, as both the developer and the neighbors have requested, after making quite a few compromises going back and forth with the blessed Nampa-Meridian irrigation system? Canning: Madam Mayor, Councilmember Donnell, you have asked me a rather loaded question. I don't know that staff has a recommendation on this. Donnell: Okey-dokey. Canning: Sorry. I'm thankful I don't have to make a decision on it at all. Donnell: Oh, thank you. De Weerd: There you go, pass the buck. Caning: It is a difficult issue. Donnell: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes, Mrs. Donnell. Donnell: Having lived on Ten Mile Creek and knowing that -- actually, the enjoyment of living on that creek and it is an irrigation ditch. I mean it truly is a drainage area. Doesn't really get very deep. I don't know how many people could drown, except for those two days when it first goes down through the area. I mean I have lived right on there. But maybe in your area it's deeper than it was where I was. But it's an attractive area. I think that that's one of the reasons, probably, the homes were purchased along there, is because it is an attractive area. And, then, your hope is that that corn field stays forever and that does not happen either. So, having said that and hoping to preserve at least some of what they have enjoyed and the cooperation that I think that I'm hearing from the developer as well, I would like to make a motion that we allow a six foot fence -- and I don't even know what the heck I'm making a motion on here. Just a second. Let me get on the right thing. A request for a final plat modification to remove the condition to construct a six-foot fence, so what in the world am I making a motion on if I want the six-foot fence? Bird: On the east side. Rountree: East side. Donnell: Then, the change that we are making is to allow it to be built on the west side. Canning: Yes, ma'am. Donnell: Thank you. That's what I move. Meridian City Council November 15, 2005 Page 47 of 65 De Weerd: Madam Mayor, may I ask for clarification on the motion? Donnell: I don't know why you would want any clarification. De Weerd: Only if I have a second. Rountree: Are you done? Donnell: I'm done. Rountree: I'll second. With clarification. De Weerd: Okay. Anna. Canning: Could the maker of the motion perhaps clarify with regard to the opening in the fence? Donnell: That's just what Councilman Wardle was telling me that I needed to do. I certainly would clarify that if the fire department believes that they need to have that in order to provide protection, that locked fence -- fences would be constructed along with that. Now, I know, the break. Rountree: No break. De Weerd: But no break? Donnell: I'm thinking about the break. De Weerd: Okay. I won't rush you. Bird: Madam Mayor, may I make -- De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: May I make -- ask a question of the maker of the motion? Why do we need an opening on that? Why do we need an opening? De Weerd: She hasn't recommended that yet. Bird: Uh? De Weerd: She hasn't recommended that. Meridian City Council November 15, 2005 Page 48 of 65 Bird: Well, I'm just giving her my opinion, because that's got a second on it. Why do we need -- if we don't need it, let's -- if we are going to have a -- if we are going to have a six -- and while we are on discussion -- are we on discussion? Donnell: We are on discussion. De Weerd: Yes, we are. Bird: I agree with the police department a hundred percent -- 90 percent -- or a hundred percent of the time, except this time. I believe that we weren't going to have that much watchers from that area either. We are going to depend on Running Brook to be the watchers along that pathway if anything happened, because you're talking about offices, stuff like that, you know, 8:00 to 5:00 they will be there. They are not -- so, this is the one time I would make the exception and have the six foot solid fence and I do not see a reason to have a gate. De Weerd: Okay. Any discussion or clarification to the motion? Donnell: On a personal agenda to the maker of the motion; right? De Weerd: Well, so far the motion is to approve the six-foot solid fence with two gates that lock on the west side of the pathway. Donnell: You did that so well. De Weerd: And there is no opening. Rountree: Is that your motion? Donnell: That's my motion. Rountree: Second agrees. De Weerd: Okay. The motion that I heard so far and second agrees. Any other discussion? Wardle: Call the question. De Weerd: Okay. The question has been called. Mr. Berg. Canning: Madam Mayor, there is still one issue. I'm sorry. But the termination of the pathway, would it be where it turns south or -- right now they are showing fence all the way to the property line in this corner. De Weerd: Okay. Anna, where does it go? Meridian City Council November 15, 2005 Page 49 of 65 Donnell: It goes out to the road. Canning: Hold on for a second. I'll bring it up. De Weerd: No. I will ask staff to clarify. But thank you, sir. Bird: Where does the original final plat say it ended and started? Canning: Madam Mayor, the fence right now -- their lines are unclear, but it seems to end here and open up, but, then, complete -- it says that the terminus of the fence is at this corner and it's really just staff is concerned about the construction of just this small portion of fence, that it not be constructed. De Weerd: Okay. Well, my question was more of where does the pathway go. Canning: Oh. It turns down -- it goes through Southern Springs and terminates at Calderwood. The pathway goes through here, goes through Southern Springs No.3 and terminates at Calderwood. And, then, it picks up on the other side of Calderwood for a short distance through the retirement community that I can't remember the name of right now. I'm sorry. The Alzheimer's facility. That's right. De Weerd: Okay. Council, so, staff's question is where do you want the fence to end. For clarification -- Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: Wouldn't the original final plat tell you where it -- all we are in is changing it from east side to west side and from how high and how solid and we have even thrown in some gates. So, the final plat that was approved two years ago gives you the length of it, where it stops and where it starts. Donnell: Thank you, Mr. Bird. Bird: Now, if you want to change that, we have to make another motion. Donnell: We aren't changing it. De Weerd: It doesn't sound like there is a recommendation for a change. So, if there is no further discussion, Mr. Berg, will you call roll. Roll-Call: Bird, nay; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Donnell, yea. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE NAY. Meridian City Council November 15, 2005 Page 50 of 65 Item 12: Public Hearing: CUP 05-040 Request for a Conditional Use Permit to modify the Conditions of Approval for CUP 03-050, in order to allow the existing building at 703 North Main Street to remain and to allow a public use in the O-T zone for Farmers and Merchants State Bank by Farmers and Merchants State Bank - 703 North Main Street: De Weerd: Okay. The motion passes. Okay. Item 12 is Public Hearing on CUP 05- 040. I will open this Public Hearing with staff's comments. Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the last item of discussion tonight is the request for Conditional Use Permit for Farmers and Merchants State Bank. It's located at 703 Main Street. This is -- although it's processed as a new Conditional Use Permit, it is a modification. The proposed development includes a request for public uses in an OT zone and to remove the condition of approval related to the occupancy of new Farmers and Merchants State Bank. As you know, this is the -- you're hearing this on a reconsideration, so I'm just trying to hit some of the highlights from the previous discussion. This was removing a condition of approval from the CUP 03-050 and that specifically said the applicant shall remove the existing Farmers and Merchants State building upon occupancy of the new building facility. The Planning and Zoning Commission heard this on September 1 st and they have recommended approval. Mark Stewart from Washington Federal did comment on the application. He had wanted a cross-access agreement and the Planning and Zoning Commission did discuss that and they did add a condition of approval that reflected that discussion. There was a question as to how P&Z reviewed this and I do need to make it clear that the Planning and Zoning Commission understood this to be an application to allow the existing building at 703 North Main Street to remain is hereby approved. The Council did approve this application on September 27th, 2005, with an added condition which states: Upon vacancy of the building by the current tenant City of Meridian, the modification to the Conditional Use Permit shall be reheard by City Council in order to evaluate removal of the building and construction of a pedestrian plaza. Prior to adopting the Findings for approval, the application did ask for reconsideration to discuss the proposed conditions of approval. At subsequent discussions it became clear that some of Council's concerns was related to items that were not in the Planning and Zoning Commission record. We were able to get the lease agreement. We did review that. It did not have information that reflected -- that needed to be reflected in a modified staff report. So, we have not modified the staff report for tonight's hearing. We were unable to get a copy of a letter to ACHD or other correspondence. So, alii have is what's in the Planning and Zoning Commission files at this point. I do want to point out that there are -- there are, basically, seven conditions of approval associated with this. One of them is the one that Council added. The other is with regard to the cross-access easement and I think the applicant has some discussion they'd like on that tonight. Another is just whether or not the building remains and that one was modified by Council previously. The third one is regarding a planter or bench at both ends of the former drive-thru lane. The question tonight really seems to be which way to take this application. Is this a permanent _w this is our one shot to get these modifications done and, therefore, we are kind of addressing all the Washington Federal access issues and Meridian City Council November 15, 2005 Page 51 of 65 we are also addressing the issue of this staying as a permanent building. Then, Council may want to consider whether the former drive-thru has been considered enough in this application. And right now we -- the requirement is just to have a bench at both ends of the former drive-thru lane and I just bring that for your consideration, because we don't seem to know where we are -- this project seems to have been pulled in two different directions. De Weerd: Excuse me, Anna, but I have conversations going on on both sides of me and you talking. So, if we could all just listen to Anna for a minute, then, you can talk. Canning: Now I know how Will feels when he's reading all those ordinances. That was the end of staff's presentation, by the way. De Weerd: I have no idea what you were saying, though. Donnell: We apologize. But I think we have been over this one a lot. I think we know this one. Canning: I'll answer any questions you may have. Donnell: Thank you. De Weerd: Okay. Are you clear what Anna is seeking? Okay. Would the applicant like to comment? No, we are the applicant. Would Craig like to comment? Slocum: Are we not the -- Canning: Madam Mayor, Farmers and Merchants is the applicant. De Weerd: Oh, we just paid for it. Canning: We waived the fee. De Weerd: Okay. Canning: Or you waived the fee. But they are the applicant. Wardle: Madam Mayor, just a quick qualification on that. I believe from the last discussion the applicant was going to pay the re-noticing fee for this hearing. Canning: Yes. Wardle: Okay. De Weerd: Whoever you are, would you, please, state your name and address. Meridian City Council November 15, 2005 Page 52 of 65 Slocum: Good evening. Merchants. Craig Slocum with CSHQA representing Farmers and De Weerd: Thank you, Craig. Slocum: Want an address or -- 250 South 5th, Boise. Gosh, where to start. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, for the record, we did -- the applicant did re-notice the project site and that has been paid for by the applicant. Having read all the minutes from the previous meetings, I -- I'll keep this as short and sweet as possible. The bank would like the existing building to remain. The condition to block off the existing drive- thru lane with a bench or a planter is acceptable to the applicant. The condition regarding agreeing to a cross-access easement with Washington Federal is acceptable to the applicant if that is a mutually agreeable design. The applicant is concerned with traffic flow. We -- both the applicant, myself, met with planning staff to discuss that. We have submitted a site plan to staff, which -- Anna, did that -- did that make it into the packet? The site plan has also been -- no. The site plan was put together after our meeting with staff in regards to Washington Federal's concern that a curbing had been put in on the north property line, which blocked off their ability to have traffic flow through their rear parking area. The applicant's concern is turning movements from Washington Federal heading south and, then, conflicting with incoming traffic off of Broadway. The proposal would be one way to the north. The plan has been given to Washington Federal. Farmers and Merchants has had discussions with them, but no yea or nay from Washington Federal in regards to the proposed site plan. The applicant would just ask that if that condition is going to remain, that it I guess be modified to include -- to be designed per the site plan that's in your packet. It addresses -- the bank is not, as I have stated, against entering into a cross-access agreement or allowing the traffic to flow properly, they are just concerned with traffic movements if it's allowed to flow the other direction. And with that I would stand for any questions. De Weerd: Council, any questions? Bird: I have none. Rountree: Madam Mayor, I have a question of legal counsel. De Weerd: Mr. Rountree. Rountree: It's procedural. I guess we could do this after we close the hearing. If there are no more questions, I move we close the Public Hearing on Item -- De Weerd: I haven't asked if there is other testimony. Rountree: That's right. We need public comment. De Weerd: Is there any other comment, Mr. Slocum? Meridian City Council November 15. 2005 Page 53 of 65 Slocum: No. De Weerd: Okay. Canning: Madam Mayor, I would like to comment that Mr. Slocum did provide this and I had Mr. Wilson check the dimensional standards against our parking and this does meet our parking requirements, whereas, the existing layout does not. They are nonconforming currently. They have insufficient backup area for their gO-degree angle parking currently. Slocum: I guess I would want to clarify one item. The Washington Federal has -- I understood their previous letters to Council indicated that they would cover the cost to remove the curb and do what was necessary. I would -- the bank is not looking to do the work on their property. De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Is there additional testimony on this application? Council, I guess I did want to provide comment. I feel that when this came forward that there was an impression this has always been the intent of Farmers and Merchants and that I somehow mislead you. I did go through the minutes of the Meridian Development Corporation, I looked up all the old e-mail and correspondence for the -- as it related to our use of that building and figuring out utilities and those agreements. It has always been stated it was temporary and this was interim. And so I didn't want you to be mislead by what my comments were and I felt that the bank was really offended by the city's impression that it was going to be anything but permanent and I just want to let you know I didn't mislead you for any reason, other than that's what I -- has only been in the conversations I've had with the bank. So, when this came in front of Council I was just as off guard by the comments as you were. So, I just wanted to clarify that for the record and I had forwarded to our city attorney all of what I had and I did even go through the Meridian Development Corporation's minutes just to make sure that they were kind of under the same impression on the lease, because they were going to be part of the lease as well and that was reflected in their minutes as well. So, I just want you to know that I -- if we were misled, I didn't mislead you intentionally. So, for what that was worth -- Nary: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Nary. Nary: Could I ask a question of -- I guess of staff? Based on the last comment that Mr. Slocum had, I mean the only requirement -- if Council were to agree with this traffic configuration that they are proposing, the only requirement of Farmers and Merchants would be to remove the curbing on the north part of the property line along the property line between Washington Federal, but all the other work that's required is totally Washington Federal's responsibility, but it's -- and it's not Farmers and Merchants, so it seems like a chicken and an egg to me. I mean you can take the curb out, but you can't have this traffic occur that way until they actually go and construct that. But they are not Meridian City Council November 15, 2005 Page 54 of 65 going to construct that until the curb's gone or -- I mean how are we going to enforce that? Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the Washington Federal's representative attended the Planning and Zoning Commission hearing. I have not seen him since, but -- unless they are here and that's him smiling, so -- but I don't know. I wasn't there. So, maybe that's it. Okay. Their commitment previously had been that they would do -- remove the curb at their expense. I think what Mr. Slocum is suggesting is that they not only remove the curb, but make the required improvements at their expense. Nary: And I guess the question I'm asking is if the improvements aren't made, then, we don't want the cross-access to go through that lot, because, otherwise, it will be the same problem. Unless those improvements are made, you will have traffic coming north and south through Washington Federal into the Farmers and Merchants lot. So, all I'm asking is how are we going to enforce -- how can we require Washington Federal to do that? I guess it would be a -- they would have to make those improvements before Farmers and Merchants was required to open the access. Is that the intent of the order the Council needs to make? Canning: Yes. Now, I understand what you mean. They could hold off on recording the easement until the improvements were done. That would be a possibility. De Weerd: Now, how can we ask another property that's not in front us to do anything? Rountree: Madam Mayor, I'm going to make a suggestion here in this discussion. It seems to me that if these two private parties are willing to enter into an agreement, what business is it of ours? Donnell: Right. Bird: That's right. Rountree: And they work out the chicken and the egg deal if they wish to with fees and agreements. And if there is a permit required for construction, then, they can come to the city and do that. Bird: I second that. Canning: I hadn't thought about that. They should get a CZC for the parking lot construction. De Weerd: Well, it's almost a cross-access or something agreement, but I guess, Mr. Rountree, I'm not going to answer your question, but I will raise a concern that if the flow is not addressed, if you have driven down that alley, you also have the drive-thru of the bank that's feeding into the alley, you have the do not enter over by the drive-thru, not Meridian City Council November 15, 2005 Page 55 of 65 up by the garbage dumpsters, so you still get turning traffic where that arrow says you can only turn left. People do turn right and they go through our parking lot. That is a blind -- the dumpster provides a blind -- a blind spot to the traffic that comes in and out of Washington Mutual or -- Canning: Washington Federal. De Weerd: -- Washington Federal's parking lot. So, it is a real hazard there. And so I guess my agreement was what is drawn or -- and what I think has been said, but I don't know how we can require another property to do anything, other than the hazard that you're potentially causing by having traffic in and out of that parking lot, if there isn't some kind of agreement. I do understand what you're saying, but because of the hazard that's right there, I think there needs to be some agreement in front of this Council so you know what you're creating by lifting that curbing and allowing that. Nary: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Nary. Nary: Maybe it doesn't answer Council member Rountree's question, but it is not uncommon for the city to require cross-access and, you're right, normally the process is is that you don't have curbs and usually you have a fairly open parking lot, like in a mall or a grocery store or those kinds of things where we have normally required that. What you can do, if the Council is of a mind to grant this and this is the configuration you want to have -- Madam Mayor is correct, I mean we can't require Washington Federal to do it. What you can require is that there be cross-access, an agreement be reached that the traffic flow and configuration be as proposed in front of you to the north and until the agreement is reached, then, the cross-access isn't going to be required until that can be accomplished. And that way -- because that could impose -- if Washington Federal doesn't wish to do that, then, there is no cross-access. If there is -- if Washington Federal is willing to do that and enter into that agreement with Farmers and Merchants, then, cross-access can occur. So, then, it's totally left to the two private property owners to make that decision, if you're not going to require -- as long as you're not going to require it or if you don't want to require it unless this can happen, I think that leaves it, then, back to the private owners to make those decisions on how that gets done, when it gets done, who does it first. But you can at least require that based upon this drawing. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: Let me ask a question. A dumb question. And I can't remember and I was through there a hundred times, but -- Washington Federal -- they didn't have the curb there, but they had -- if you come out from Washington Federal -- and they go in the opposite way that's showing there. They would come in from the north down out of the Meridian City Council November 15, 2005 Page 56 of 65 alley. They had to come through the drive-thrus. If I remember right, there was no other way out. Most of the people that I have seen at Washington Federal would back out and get in the alleyway and come out. I can't imagine with cars sitting in the drive- thru that I'm going to sit there and wait for them to get through. What kind of agreement did they have then? I'm like Mr. Rountree, I mean it -- it definitely is a problem, but I thought we were here to act upon whether the building stayed or the building went down after we were done with it. Nary: That, too. Bird: That, too? Rountree: Maybe or maybe not. Bird: So, I don't know. De Weerd: Okay. Bird: I think the egg got ahead of the chicken. De Weerd: Okay. You are allowed the last word. The public hearing was not closed and certainly that was still for the public record. So, if you have any wisdom to impart, we -- Slocum: Oh. Rountree: Wise move. Slocum: Craig Slocum with CSHQA for the record. Madam Mayor, Councilman Bird, we would be welcome to not dealing with any other issue than whether this building is permanent or not. I was only addressing the cross-access as it came from your first -- well, came out of Planning and Zoning and through your first recommendation. Our desire, as was stated in our request for reconsideration, is that that condition be removed in its entirety. Thank you. De Weerd: Okay. I know you're just looking to do it, so-- Rountree: Madam Mayor, I move to close the Public Hearing. ... Bird: Second. Rountree: Item 12. De Weerd: Okay. Motion to close the Public Hearing on Item No. 12. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries. Meridian City Council November 15, 2005 Page 57 of 65 MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Rountree: Okay. Madam Mayor, question for legal counsel. Since this is reconsideration, do we have to have a motion if we so choose to negate the previous decision? Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Council member Rountree, yes, if you want to rescind your prior action, then, you should probably do that by motion separately from whatever other action you wish to take. Rountree: And I believe, according to Robert's Rules, only a person who votes in the affirmative on that motion can move to rescind a decision. Nary: That's correct. Rountree: And I believe I voted against it, so -- that's the first matter of business, if we need to do that. The question before us is do we want to rescind the previous decision or not. And I can't make that motion, if you want to. Wardle: Madam Mayor, Mr. Nary, was Councilman Rountree the only dissension in that? Nary: I wasn't here that evening, Councilmember Wardle. I'm sorry. I do think he was the only Councilmember, Councilmember Rountree, that voted against that. I believe that's correct. The Mayor didn't break the tie, so I believe that's correct. Wardle: And I voted against one or two of these before, so I was just making sure it wasn't this one. Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Wardle. Wardle: I move that we rescind our previous decision on application number 12, CUP 05-040. Rountree: Second. De Weerd: Okay. The motion is to rescind. Is there any discussion? Mr. Berg. Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Donnell, yea. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Wardle: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Wardle. Meridian City Council November 15, 2005 Page 58 of 65 Wardle: Just my brief comments before this. In my consideration as to whether to allow this building to remain permanently, in the previous CUP application we heard that a plaza downtown would benefit the community, that that was part of their application and we approved that. At this point in time I'm hearing Farmers and Merchants say that marketing conditions, along with downtown redevelopment and utilization of the building permanently, would be in the best interest of both their business and their community. I'll say that if they said that at the time of their original application, I would have agreed with it and so I'm going to agree with that today. With that, I would make a motion that we -- well, I'm going to ask legal counsel before I make my motion. Mr. Nary, what specifically do we need to have to allow, so that it's clear from this hearing and this record that the building would remain and I'll get to the rest of the conditions when I get there, just -- is there -- Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Mrs. Canning, I think, has the conditions in front of her, but Councilmember Wardle, I think there is only one condition that I recall -- or two that relate to removal of the building. So, what your amendment would be to either amend or rescind -- and I don't know the wording, I don't have that in front of me, but Mrs. Canning does. But you simply would be modifying those conditions regarding the removal of the building for the future plaza and you can amend it by removing them, I guess. But I don't know what the specific wording was. Mrs. Canning could probably tell you. Rountree: Well, didn't we rescind it? So, there is no conditions. Nary: That's fine. Rountree: I mean we just rescinded the previous decision, so there is no conditions. Nary: No. No. No. No. All you have just rescinded was your previous decision about amending the conditions. Now, you would be basically amending the conditional use -- Rountree: Just got to ask. Nary: -- for that to remove those conditions regarding the removal of the building. And Mrs. Canning could probably say which specific ones you might want to reference in your motion, if that's your desire. Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the recommendation of the Planning and Zoning Commission stated that -- condition 1.3 specifically says the request to allow the existing building at 703 North Main Street to remain is hereby approved. So, that's the recommendation as it came forth from Planning and Zoning Commission. You have modified 1.3 to make it subject to 1.7, which was the one that talked about rehearing it. So, if you start with the basis of the recommendation from the Planning and Zoning Commission, there are no changes you need to make to have the building remain. It sounds like you may want to modify condition 1.6 regarding the cross- Meridian City Council November 15, 2005 Page 59 of 65 access, but I haven't figured out where you're going there, but I just wanted to remind you it's there. Wardle: Let me give it a shot here. Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Wardle. Wardle: I move that we approve the request to modify CUP 04-040, including the acceptance of condition 1.3 to allow the building to remain and incorporating only that condition into the CUP, directing staff to prepare proper Findings. Donnell: Second. Rountree: Discussion? De Weerd: Okay. Rountree: Would the maker of the motion agree to one condition and that's the condition that the access off of Main Street be blocked with an appropriate planter or bench? Wardle: Well -- and for discussion purposes the applicant did provide testimony tonight that they would do that and it wasn't from the Planning and Zoning. So, I would agree to incorporate that into the motion and add that as an additional condition, again, directing staff to draw up proper Findings. Rountree: Second agrees. De Weerd: Okay. Any further discussion? Nary: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Nary. Nary: I guess just for clarification, the current -- the current Findings in front of you that I think you're asking to be brought back is -- still requires the cross-access. Is that the Council's desire? So, you want to remove the condition 1.6 requiring any cross-access, remove condition 1.7, which requires a rehearing of when the building was vacated, and leave the condition allowing it to remain and leave the condition requiring a planter or bench on both ends of the drive-thru. Is that -- I just want to make sure we are clear. Wardle: That -- Madam Mayor, that is my wish, that we only incorporate the conditions that Anna pointed out as 1.3. To also incorporate the requirement for the bench and to redraw the Findings up, allow applicant time to review those before we approve them. Nary: Great. Meridian City Council November 15, 2005 Page 60 of 65 De Weerd: Okay. Any further clarification needed? Canning: Madam Mayor, just for the applicant's sake, I'm sorry, I have to bring this up, because I'm confused now. Is condition 1.1 in or out? De Weerd: And that is what condition? Canning: It's regarding signs in the Old Town district. It stated that they were eligible for the L-O standards for signs. De Weerd: Okay. Rountree: And that relates to what? Canning: I have gotten confused. I'm sorry. It's-- Donnell: We never talked about signs. Wardle: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Wardle. Wardle: Anna, I don't remember having that discussion in any of our hearings, so I'm not sure how that would affect -- Canning: When this application was submitted there was no sign allowance for the Old Town zone. So, that's why it's in there. If the applicant was counting on that -- I think we are still okay. I'd have to go check the ordinance again. Rountree: They didn't ask for it. Wardle: Madam Mayor, just a quick clarification. Was this something we approved at the original hearing? Bird: No. Canning: I don't know. De Weerd: Mr. Nary? Canning: The original '03 hearing or the original -- Bird: Why would it have been? We was taking that down. Nary: Madam Mayor? Meridian City Council November 15, 2005 Page 61 of 65 De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Nary. Nary: Mrs. Canning, is this a concern that a sign would be off premise? De Weerd: Mr. Nary, does this raise a question -- we have -- is this two lots we are talking about? Is this one lot? Did we just create two buildings on one lot? Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, there is, actually, a number of lots that this parcel takes up. It's one tax parcel currently. There may be a need, based on the current lease, to separate them for tax purposes and that may be something we may need to address. But there are a number of parcels in the Old Town district, they were real skinny little parcels, so there is probably -- in this particular lot there is probably, you know, a dozen parcels along -- between Meridian and Main -- or Main Street and Meridian Road. So, it's not an issue of that. It's one tax parcel currently. De Weerd: Okay. Canning: All right. After all that, Madam Mayor, the standards are the same under the new zoning ordinance. So, we are -- Rountree: We are okay? Canning: We are okay. I'm sorry. And, Madam Mayor, regarding the question about the lot, this is still owned by one property owner. There is no longer a prohibition about having two property -- two buildings on one property. So, if they wanted to sell that building off, they would need to do a lot line adjustment, so they can get a legal parcel. De Weerd: Thank you. Now you just threw that in to see if we were awake -- right? Okay. Is there anything further, Council? Mr. Berg, will you, please, call roll. Very quickly. Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Donnell, yea. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 13: Amendment to Ordinance No. 04-1116: AZ 03-037 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 46.40 acres from RUT to R-8 zone for proposed Chesterfield Subdivision by Centennial Development, LLC - east of North Black Cat Road and north of West Franklin Road: De Weerd: Okay. Ordinance No. 04-1116, Item No. 13, is AZ 05-037. Mr. Berg, will you, please, read this ordinance by title only. Berg: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Amended Ordinance No. 05-1116, an Amended Ordinance, Chesterfield Subdivision, for annexation of property located in a portion of the northeast quarter of the southwest quarter and a portion of Meridian City Council November 15, 2005 Page 62 of 65 the northwest quarter of the southeast quarter of Section 10, Township 3 North, Range 1 West, Boise Meridian, Ada County, Idaho, as described in Attachment A and annexing certain lands and territory situated in Ada County, Idaho, and adjacent and contiguous to the corporate city limits of the City of Meridian as requested by the City of Meridian, establishing and determining the land use zoning classification of said lands from RUT to R-8 in the Meridian City Code, providing that copies of the ordinance shall be filed with the Ada County assessor, the Ada County recorder, and the Idaho State Tax Commission as required by law and providing for a summary of the ordinance and providing for waiving of the reading of the rules and providing an effective date. De Weerd: Thank you for that speed-reading. You have heard the ordinance read by title only. Is there anyone who would like to hear it read in its entirety? Seeing none, Council? Wardle: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Wardle. Wardle: I move that we approve Item 13 with suspension of rules. Bird: Second. De Weerd: Okay. Motion to approve Item 13. Mr. Berg, will you, please, call roll. Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Donnell, yea. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 14: Ordinance No. 05-1200 AZ 05-034 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 7.89 acres from RUT to R-8 zone for Caymus Cove Subdivision by Landmark Engineering and Planning, Inc. - 2745 McMillan Road: Item 15: Ordinance No. 05-1201 : RZ 05-018 Request for a Rezone of 71.24 acres from I-L to C-G zone for Crossroads Shoppina Center, Presidential Subdivision and Reagan Subdivision by the City of Meridian - southeast corner of Eagle Road and Fairview Avenue: De Weerd: Thank you. Items 14 and 15, if you will, please, read those two ordinances by title only, I would appreciate it. Berg: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Ordinance No. 05-1200, an Ordinance for annexation of property located in the northeast quarter of the northwest quarter of Section 35, Township 4 North, Range 1 West, Boise Meridian, Ada County, Idaho, as described in Attachment A and annexing certain lands and territory situated in Ada County, Idaho, and adjacent and contiguous to the corporate city limits of the City Meridian City Council November 15, 2005 Page 63 of 65 of Meridian as requested by the City of Meridian, establishing and determining the land use classification of said lands from RUT to R-8 in the Meridian City Code, providing that copies of this ordinance shall be filed with the Ada County assessor, the Ada County recorder, and the Idaho State Tax Commission as required by law and providing for a summary of the ordinance and providing for a waiver of the reading of the rules and providing an effective date. Berg: Ordinance No. 05.1201, an Ordinance for rezone of zoning classification for real property located in the northwest quarter of Section 9, Township 3 North, Range 1 East, Meridian, Ada County, Idaho, as described in Attachment A of this ordinance and rezoning certain lands and territories situated in Ada County and within the corporate limits of the City of Meridian and rezoning the land use zoning classification of said lands from I-L to C-G in the Meridian City Code, providing that copies of this ordinance shall be filed with the Ada County assessor, the Ada County recorder, and the Idaho State Tax Commission as required by law and providing for a summary of the ordinance and providing for a waiver of the reading of the rules and providing an effective date. De Weerd: Thank you. You have heard these two ordinances read by title only. And seeing that no one wants to hear it read in its entirety, I would entertain a motion to approve Items 14 and 15. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: I move we approve Ordinances 05-1200 and 05-1201, with suspension of rules. Rountree: Second. De Weerd: Okay. The motion is to approve Items 14 and 15 with suspension of rules. Mr. Berg, will you call roll. Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Donnell, yea. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 16: Tabled from November 9,2005: Ordinance No. 05-1202 Transferrina City Parkina Lot to the Meridian Development Corporation: De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Item 16. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Meridian City Council November 15, 2005 Page 64 of 65 Bird: Do you want -- we don't need to read it. Staff has asked that we table this until December 6, 2005, for more review. De Weerd: Okay. Do I have a motion? Donnell: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mrs. Donnell. Donnell: I move that we go into Executive Session per Idaho-- De Weerd: Wait. We need a motion to -- Donnell: Is it just being tabled? Bird: Would you make a motion to table that.- Donnell: Is that what we were going to do? Bird: -- ordinance to 12/06/05. Donnell: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes. Donnell: I'd make a motion to table Ordinance No. 05-1202 until December the 6th. Bird: Second. De Weerd: Okay. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 17: Executive Session per Idaho State Code 67-2345(1)(c) (to conduct deliberations concerning labor negotiations or to acquire an interest in real property, which is not owned by a public agency): Donnell: Now, Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes. Donnell: I'd like to make a motion that we go into Executive Session per Idaho State Code 67-2345 to conduct deliberations concerning those that are applicable by law. Bird: Second. Meridian City Council November 15, 2005 Page 65 of 65 De Weerd: Okay, Mr. Berg, will you call roll. Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Donnell, yea. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. EXECUTIVE SESSION: '----- -- De Weerd: I would entertain a motion to come out of Executive Session. -.,-~. Bird: Second: De Weerd: All those in favor say aye. ALL AYES. MOTION CARRIED. De Weerd: I would also entertain a motion to adjourn. Bird: So moved. Rountree: Second. De Weerd: All those in favor? ALL AYES. MOTION CARRIED. MEETING ADJOURNED AT 11:18 P.M. (TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS) ~ MAYOR T (~. ., CITY CLERK