HomeMy WebLinkAboutApril 8, 1997 P&Z Minutes
, Meri~ian Planning & loA Commission
April 8, 1997
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Johnson: Are you familiar with what we did? Well earlier in the evening when I am sure
you were here we were going through findings of fact, they are these legal documents
that really addresses the application in accordance with our zoning and ordinances and
comments and testimony received. There is not much in your specific case. The City
Attorney will prepare those at our next scheduled meeting which is May 13th we will
review those and as soon as those are prepared you are welcome to get a copy of
those and review them. From that stage on they go to the city Council as soon as they
can be put on their agenda the City Council will review those as well and that would be
the near final step in getting your approval.
ITEM #15: PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR AN ACCESSORY USE PERMIT FOR
A BAKERY BY BRIGITTE STONE: .
Johnson: We are in receipt, I will open the public hearing first and make a comment
that we are in receipt of some recent letters to the Commission including a petition that
was submitted this evening. I don't have the lady's name that submitted the petition, we
have given. the applicant a copy but I would like someone to talk to us before we are
' through with the public hearing on the petition since there aren't any addresses given of
the people who signed it. So I want to make sure that these people live in the adjacent
area, close and not in Lewiston. At this time I will ask the applicant to come forward and
address the Commission, Brigitte Stone or a representative.
Brigitte Stone, 626 McGlinchey Avenue, Meridian, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Derrick Bell, 1445 West Carlton, Meridian, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Johnson: Well we have your application Brigitte if you would just elaborate somewhat
on that and then we will ask you questions.
Stone: Basically what I really want to elaborate is what I am proposing is a commissary
bakery not a full fledge shop where people come to and buy from me. I have contracts
with, throughout the different coffee shops here in Meridian and also in Nampa.
Basically what we propose is a commissary bakery where I am the only individual
basically baking. I have contract individuals, two at the most that make the deliveries to
the certain points. That is basically, you cannot tell from the outside it is a bakery unless
you walk in the inside. Because the structure that we proposed was basically so if I ever
decided to resale my home somebody can make it into supposedly a Jacuzzi or a third
bonus room at that time. We have been approved by the Central District Health
Department with the proposal that we gave them. Right now we have been working out
of Parrots and Dippin Dots for a temporary home until we could come to some resolve
because when we applied for this the permits in the beginning there was some
misunderstanding and the building permits were basically revoked and then it became a
real big issue. We have letters from customers that we conduct very professional
business. There is basically, it is just a commissary, I am the only one that works there
at night. We have had a lot of traffic coming and going because I have been moving my
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stuff over to Parrots in the last 2 to 3 weeks to comply with Central District Health has
asked us to do.
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Johnson: Anything else? Did you have any comments at this time or did you want to
reserve those?
Bell: I would just like to make a few, I think that, it appears to me that a lot of the
complaints in response to this application are due to some misunderstandings or
misrepresentation as to the scope and nature of this project. It is clearly an activity that
is incidental to the residence in the home. It is baking pastries, she does do some
catering with lunches and some dinners and that is less than.5% of her business. The
vast majority of what she does is pastries that are delivered to the shops and to various
businesses around town as she says. Like she says from the outside this is not going to
detract from the neighborhood character in any way as far as property values go. You
can't do anything (inaudible) and maintaining the residential nature of the dwelling. As
far as traffic goes, the traffic that will be generated on this is far less than what would be
generated at the day care center in the neighborhood; there are several of them in the
area. There is basically the two girls that come in the morning (inaudible) so that she
can keep track of that. The traffic is really been, it is not a retail outlet where people
(inaudible) there will be no signs, no exterior lighting and nothing that really deviates
from the residential nature in this entire project.
Johnson: Thank you, any questions from the Commissioners to the applicant and the
applicant's representative?
MacCoy: Let's carry on what you say here, you say there will be no signage and no
outside lighting. The actual operation (inaudible) have anything to do with fumes or
noise? .
Bell: There will be no noises that aren't typically generated in the house (inaudible)
baking bread and muffins and cookies and things are things that are going to happen in
the neighborhood anyway (inaudible). Other than that no there is no, she is not doing
doughnuts or anything like that so there is not a large amount of grease or even really
much need for that type of ventilation system.
MacCoy: I understand from a real estate person some years ago that the smell of
baking break actually helps out your neighborhood.
Johnson: When you talk, I need tö have you put it up next to you. That mic is fairly
sensitive but we have to type these minutes and sometimes we miss it when you are
not close to the mic.
MacCoy: This, I will call it a menu in here I don't know what else you call it, it is part of
our package we were given. I don't know if this is true or not the wrong use or wrong
slant because it mentions dinner 2, dinner 3, and so on like you will be bringing people
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in and setting down to eat and you say which dinner do you want and then you serve
them up. We have some small (inaudible) that do that very thing so I think right away
there is a an association between what people see and what they (inaudible).
Bell: I believe that is correct, she does have different selections on there. Most of that is
for her catering where she caters special events for businesses, lunches or meetings.
Evening events, she did a customer promotion thing for I think it was Sundance Dodge
here a while back. Which was items off of that menu, that is why that menu is there. It is
distributed around because, through her pastry route because they go to businesses
that do that type of functions. She also does the odd wedding here and there kind of
thing.
MacCoy: I think you see where I am getting at here where I think it may have caused
your problem for you.
Bell: Right I believe so.
Oslund: I want to voice an objection that staff included this menu because I haven't
.eaten since this morning and (inaudible)
MacCoy: Of course one of the things that (inaudible) you have already mentioned the
fact you won't have any foot traffic other than your own. So you don't have the need to
take care of the disabled or to take care of several things here, just-going down through
my list here.
Oslund: I have a question, I guess what is the plan in the long run. You have a great
looking menu if you cook as well as you make this sound I would imagine that you are
going to be you are going to continue to be more successful and businesses sometimes
are hard to keep from growing. I guess I know we are going to hear from all of these
folks, where is it going to go. Even if somebody were to approve it if Council were to
approve it now where are you going with it. How are you going to keep it contained I
guess?
Stone: I don't want to get too big that is number one basically. I left my job for a hobby,
this is a hobby to me and a dream. I enjoy cooking which not very many people like to
do. Basically we plan to stay very limited because I don't want to branch out because
the cost of branching out is totally tremendous and the overhead can become too
overwhelming that you end up basically putting yourself completely down in the ground.
Right now where we stand granted we can't give you a guarantee that we are not going
to grow but if we do come to that point then I would have to look at a different location of
course.
Oslund: What does your neighborhood look like? How old are the houses, how many
are there, are there any other businesses in the neighborhood?
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Stone: There are two day cares, there is one at the opposite end of McGlinchey that
has roughly about 14 children and then there is another day care at the other end of
Crestmont which is two blocks up which is the Candyland. There is a TA Financial
company on the corner of Crestmont and Lawndale and there is Chips Auto Window
repair and there are two other firms down on Kenmire that run financial accounting
services out of their homes.
Bell: If I might add, we have looked at various other possibilities. We looked at the H & r
Block building and considering building a lunch counter bakery in that building there.
That turned out to be too expensive for where the business is right now. The reason, a
lot of the reason for building this addition to fit in with the house and add to the value of
the house as a residence was primarily because down the road we are planning on
moving out of it into something that is a lot more representative and appropriate for the
business volume that does develop down the road. There has been a tremendous
demand out there for this particular service. It is like there is a vacuum out there and
people are calling all of the time. If the girls don't show up they are wanting to know
where they are. At this point this is a fledgling type of business it is just trying to get off
its feet. She started out in her kitchen for several months operated out of there and was
inspected by Central District Health several times and passed all of those inspections.
Ata some point they changed a lot of the regulations I don't know if it was because of
the deal in Nampa or what but the First of February they changed a lot of the
regulations and came in and said that they required a lot more square footage. So that
is where the plan came to move to do the addition onto the to' get the extra square
footage that Central District Health said that she needed for the volume.
Stone: In the proposed plan that you have in front of you has been approved by Christy
at the Central District Health Department as a commissary bak~ry and nothing else.
Johnson: That is kind of an odd situation it is kind of like a catch 22, what they are
looking for and what we are looking for are two different thing. By statute you can't
prepare for resale in your home kitchen and that is why you are building the addition.
Under the accessory use application you can't change the appearance of your home,
you can't build onto it in order to accommodate an accessory use. It is supposed to be
the home used with a percent of that residence and not have any outside traffic. So it is
kind of an we are in kind of a quandary here because the application is for an accessory
use. We intend to discount Central District Health's comments because of that because
they are looking for something different than weare in this case. Our primary concern in
this case is the neighborhood andJhe residential character of the neighborhood and the
neighbors concerns. In that regard have you had any meetings with your neighbors at
all?
Stone: Yes, when this became an issue I addressed it, I addressed all of the neighbors
within the adjacent area.
Johnson: How did you do that, just physically how did you do that?
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Stone: I physically went over and talked to each one of them. Basically I got really no
comment except that I got one negative comment and the other ones were if the other
residents agreed with it then I will agree with it. The third one was we will just have to
see what happens. I got not definite negatives as I have gotten in the last couple of
weeks with the activity that has been going on. Nobody made any complaints, I think if
City Hall will check Dean was going to check to see, nobody had any complaints since I
started doing this until I arose the issue and that was basically building the addition onto
my home. I have been in since August and then I started to do this addition per
Christy's approval and that is when it became a big issue. . Like I said there is a lot of
miscommunication I think, one like Mr. MacCoy pointed out the menu. Granted
advertisement, we are just a commissary. I have Paul from Parrots here that can testify
we do not have incoming traffic. They are in a very small area and if we had
tremendous amount' of traffic it would be clogging up their business and other business
that are located on Linder Road. I don't know, like I said I don't know where it got blown
out of proportion a little bit. But it is just a plain commissary, I am the only one that
works in it at night. Yes my hours are nighttime, I am not going to deny that, but I
worked for Hewlett Packard for five years as an engineer and my hours were night. So I
have always been a night job person and yes my house comes and goes and I have a
noisy door. Starting a car can be noisy to some neighbors, I won't deny that. But I have
5 brothers also to be real honest also and they come and go too. I have a lot of family
in my family and my mother drops off a two year old at 6:00 in the morning and she is
my niece. So when it comes to more traffic of my business, I have 'Iess amount of traffic
with my business than I do with my family members and my family.
Johnson: We don't have any laws governing your family.
Stone: Well sometimes when you judge the outside of a book 'you don't know what is
inside the cover.
Johnson: I want to follow up on a couple of your comments here. Twice you said I am
the only one working at night. Are there, does that mean there are people working other
than at night?
Stone: I have a brother that works for Hewlett Packard that leaves at night too but
nobody that works inside of what I am doing. I am the only one that is cooking, and
Paul can verify that from Parrots.
Johnson: Your application also says two people only working at all times. Is that the
same two people or different people?
Stone: The delivery, the girls contracted to deliver the food products. Most of the time I
deliver the ones early in the morning so that there is less traffic. The girls come about
8:00 because that is when the delivery starts and they are back and done by 1 :00 at the
latest.
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Johnson: How many trips, the people that are working for you how many trips do they
make a day to your home.
Stone: Two trips, one to come there and one to return. They don't come back, they don't
come in between unless they are done making all of the deliveries.
Johnson: And you say they so that is more than one?
Stone: No, me or them, because we deliver to the coffee houses like in Nampa, I load
up and I deliver to three coffee houses.
Bell: There are the two contract delivery people that is the two people that I think you
are referring to.
Johnson: Well I am not referring to them it is on the application. I just wanted a
clarification of who they were.
Bell: That is who that is.
Johnson: The letters that we have from people in the area, and that is also difficult for
me to say for sure because I don't have addresses on this whole list of people but I
assume they are in the area. One of them has written a letter of her own stating that she
has noticed an increase in traffic, so I assume she has had some familiarity with your
family coming and going. And additional cars parked around the home other than
normal, is that not because of the business or is that because of the business?
Stone: Are you referring to letter that I just received?
Johnson: I refer to that, that has 18 signatures on it, but I am also referring to the letter
we received dated April 4 from Carolyn Mitchell who is also on the list of people who
signed the petition. She lives at 702 McGlinchey. So she is very close I would assume
to your residence.
Stone: She is three houses from my house.
Johnson: I want a comment on the increased traffic is what I want, other than what you
have told us because she sees it differently obviously.
Stone: The only traffic that I have to do with the business is one other vehicle besides
mine. I have a Chevy Blazer and the other vehicle is a Subaru, those are the only two
vehicles that are involved with the business. Yes I can tell you this is a daily traffic
household. My mother comes at 6, she drives an Oldsmobile, I have a brother that
drives a Nissan, I drive the Chevy. I have a girlfriend that drives a Suzuki, I have family
members I have brothers that drive trucks. Other than an every day to day basis the
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only business wise for business purpose is those two vehicles. Other than that they are
friends or family that does come over.
Bell: The amount of traffic that they have noticed recently can't be from the business
because the business has been operating out of Parrots and the delivery girls have
been picking up down there. All of the business is going on down at Parrots and is not
being conducted in the home. So any increase in traffic recently is not business related.
It is either other people in the neighborhood or friends coming and going on personal
visits.
Oslund: How long have you been at Parrots?
Stone: Three weeks, I don't even have delivery service for my products, raw products. I
don't have trucks coming to my home, I do not have vendors coming to my home. I go
and get my supplies. I meet the truck driver at Jackson's here in Meridian and I load my
supplies in the back of my Blazer. If I have conducted some business, the other day
Inland Coca-Cola came to my home to give me a case price on different types of cases
for pops when I am doing a big catering for like Sundance dodge or the other types of
companies that I do'. But there has not been any excessive traffic other than the two
vehicles.
Bell: WE also have some letters of support too that we just got this evening and didn't
have a chance to make copies of. -
Johnson: If you would like to introduce those into the record you may do so. Those are
identified by address I hope?
Bell: We have one other neighbor here that supports the projec(
Johnson: Continuing on here, we have received a letter from an individual that says that
I believe three times the police have been called due to excess noise, can you comment
on that? '
Stone: If the police have come to my house on excessive noise there should be a
police report on hand and there is no police report whatsoever on hand.
(Inaudible)
Stone: Directly no, 2 % years ago'l had a situation that involved private custody of my
children and a situation that has nothing to do with the business. But we did have the
police over there for personal reasons. The dog catcher came to my home once to
warn me about, we have a dog that barks. Sometime his excessiveness can be
overdrawn, I do try to watch him going in and out. Sometimes he does get out, he is a
dog. But the police have not been to my home for any noise control or anything
whatsoever in the last two years.
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Johnson: Thank you, there is another letter here that I noted a statement in that I
wanted to ask you about and that is an assumption on the part of the writer here. The
copy isn't real good but it looks like the last name is Blunk. It states that you plan a walk
in catering company there that would mean that people and cars, and I am
paraphrasing here, would arrive at anytime. Your comments regarding that comment?
Bell: That is a total assumption made out of the blue, there is no basis for it whatsoever.
Johnson: To be more direct is that something you do or don't plan to do there?
Bell: That is not something I plan to do there at all. It is not a retail establishment for
walk in traffic.
Johnson: Any other comments from any other commissioners?
Borup: You have been running your business since August? You say you have
contracts with the cafes, about how many?
Stone: Right now we are standing with three confirmed contracts with additional 2 more.
Borup: So they are going from ,8:00 in the morning until 1 :00 three people to go to 3
places? -
Stone: Basically for the coffee shops yes we have other businesses that call us up that
we deliver the different pastries to. I don't know if you are familiar with the concept of
like the Cookie Lady.
Borup: That is what I was wondering (inaudible) you menu has the variety of over 50
items. So most of them don't have standing orders on specific items (inaudible) what is
in the basket at the time. I was wondering if you bake all 50 items every night.
Stone: Just about sometimes.
Borup: You did state at this time that you are doing 100% of the baking yourself.
Stone: Yes I am doing 100% of the baking by myself.
Borup: Then you must have some commercial equipment in your house, this is
equipment you have been moving to Parrots.
Stone: We have a commercial stove that I bought in the beginning. There are two types
of commercial stoves, the commercial stone one is an inline commercial stone which is
what you see in the big commercial- retail bakeries. The other ones are air central
convection ovens. An air central convection oven is considered a commercial stone
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through the Central District Health Department. That is what I have, it looks like your
ordinary stove in your house, it just has a fan that circulates the heat consistently.
Borup: I assume you have reviewed all of the staff comments, have you any comments
on any of those, not only staff but the other departments like specifically the sewer
department?
Bell: There again, I think the assumption is that this is going, this is a lot broader scope
project than what it is where you are going to have things like doughnuts and frying in oil
vats. Where there is a lot of grease expelled into the sewer and stuff. The actual extra
load on the sewer and water wouldn't amount I don't think mare than 10 gallons a day.
There is very little actually from a bakery standpoint just washing pans and doing the
occasional chlorine bleach wipe down of the kitchen and that kind of thing. There is
really not any need for a grease trap.
Borup: (Inaudible) if it is determined, there mayor may not be that much item
(inaudible). .
Stone: We use no frying and most bakeries fry, we are pastry, we are like turnovers and
things like that, strudel.
Borup: It sounds like you do have a big variety and your (inaudible) but it definitely is a
commercial business isn't it? .
Bell: Well yes it is a commercial enterprise, it is a business she has been operating out
of her home. You do, any kind of business you do you do need to generate commerce.
Oslund: On that note and something I brought up earlier about the what the potential is
and everything. Unlike a real innocuous kind of accessory use like you want to do
accounting out of your home you could do 10 times more accounting and the affect in
the neighborhood is not 10 times worse. There has to be some concern about potential
of this business. Once you go through the City and if you were to get an approval if
things expand the City really has not a lot of control without using some serious police
powers. So I just wanted to make that comment.
Fitzgerald: A couple of questions, in terms of the schematic what is the square footage
of the house?
Stone: 1420 including my garage...'
Fitzgerald: Do you know what the square footage is exclusive of your garage?
Stone: I believe it is 1350 I am not sure.
Fitzgerald: And the area for this home occupation or use what is the size of that?
, Meridian Planning & zo.g Commission
April 8, 1997
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Stone: Yes they do.
Johnson: Anyone else from the Commission? Thank you very much we will give you an
opportunity to rebut if you want to after the testimony from the rest of the public. This is
a public hearing would anyone else like to address the Commission at this time?
Lucille Wood, 634 McGlinchey, Meridian was sworn by the City Attorney.
Roy Wood, 634 McGlinchey, Meridian was sworn by the City Attorney.
Wood: Brigitte's house is right up against our house and she s'ays there is no noise but
there is. There is a lot of noise and she says there are no cars parked out front. There
isn't now since she knew this was coming up, but they have parked in front of our trailer
and we have had to ask every time we wanted out to get out and sometimes they are
not very nice about it.
Johnson: Let me ask you a couple of things and then you can go on. What kind of
noise, would you describe the noise, I want to catch these things as we go, so I don't
have to recall here.
Wood: She has three dogs and every time somebody comes they bark.
Roy Wood: They bark half the night.
Johnson: Not being facetious but the dogs don't have anything to do with the business,
it is the people that are coming and they bark.' You mentioned something about they,
when you ask them to move parking in front of your trailer. Who are they, who comes
out and moves their car, do you know who the people are?
Wood: No I don't, the are people that go over to her house to her home. We suppose it
is their workers. This has been, that has been our home out there for 20 some years.
We want to keep it as residential we don't want a business out there. We bought this
home for retirement.
Roy Wood: I am a World War" veteran and I bought that, I am just about 85 years old
and I want to get my trailer out I want to get it out I don't want a lot of sass.
Wood: We would like to see it kept,residential. She says that she doesn't have any
deliveries but I have seen delivery trucks come in there and unload.
Johnson: What kind of delivery trucks, do you notice any signs on any of the vehicles or
anything?
Wood: No, I can't tell you that.
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Johnson: Did you hand me this, was this you?
Wood: Yes
Johnson: Could you tell me how these signatures were collected since I don't have
addresses again maybe tell me where the people live?
Wood: They live right around us on McGlinchey and on the corner of Crestmont, they
arejust right around us.
Johnson: I asked the applicant if they had' any contact with the neighbors, did they
contact you about the business at all?
Wood: No they didn't, Brigitte didn't, she said she did but she didn't. She sent
somebody over there, but we didn't know who they were, but she didn't. She went to all
of the rest of the neighbors but she didn't us. .
Johnson: Do you have anything else to add other than what was in your petition? How
about you sir? Thank you very much? Any questions from the Commission here?
Fitzgerald: Chairman Johnson, for the record could you identify the document that you
are talking about? ; , .
Johnson: Yes, I am talking about a petition that is dated April 1, to April 7' 1997
addressed to the Planning and Zoning Commission signed by 18 people with respect to
the application.
Jerry Card, 712 McGlinchey, Meridian was sworn by the City Attorney.
Card: First thing that I would like to say is that I have not been contacted about this at
all. Brigitte Stone did not come to my house, I did not know she had a bakery in her
house at all until about a week ago when I was contacted by Mrs. Wood. She was
telling me about what was going on, that was the first time I knew anything about it.
Johnson: How many doors are you away just roughly?
Card: I live three houses away, three houses to the west. Their house is on the corner
of McGlinchey arid Crestmont and' I am the fourth house on the right hand side of
McGlinchey.
Johnson: Thank you
Card: The other thing that I would like to ask is, is there zoning for this type of business
in this residential neighborhood?
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Johnson: There is no present zoning because it is zoned residential. It has a residential
zoning. We do on occasion permit the operation of businesses for lack of a better term
businesses in a residential neighborhood with extenuating circumstances. With
basically tacit approval of the neighborhood. But it is under our ordinance that they can
make application for this and they have done so under what we call accessory use.
Accessory use is a legal term and the conditions to meet that are spelled out in our
ordinance which we can give you a copy of. Not all things fall under that, for example
day care centers do not fall under accessory use. Most of the time it is a business for
lack of a better example maybe somebody that ties flies in their basement and mails
them out to a catalog or something. Non-disruptive businesses, so I don't know if that
answers your question. We would be glad to show you the definition a full definition of
accessory use if you want to contact the City.
Card: That will be fine, I don't believe I have any other comments.
Johnson: Thank you Mr. Card, anyone else like to come forward?
Carolyn Mitchell, 702 McGlinchey, Meridian was sworn by the City Attorney.
Mitchell: I guess the only thing that I would like to say is I can also state that with
Brigitte saying she only has one dog is not true, she has three dogs and believe me
they do bark. The other thing is that like I stated in my letter I bought this house
because I know the immediate area was mostly made up of retired people. There are
several houses in the immediate area that do have children. I myself have a child. The
Meridian Middle School is probably within 3 blocks walking distance. I bought the home
because of the quiet neighborhood, I like quiet neighborhoods, I would like it to remain
that way. It is a residential area, it is not commercial and that is the way I would like to
keep it a nice quiet, peaceful, safe residential area.
Johnson: Thank you Carolyn, any questions of Ms. Mitchell?
Lucille Groff, 2012 Crestmont, Meridian, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Groff: We had to move into town almost nine years ago and we moved in there a little
while before she moved into her home. I have never had any objections to this at all
except that I said to begin with if there would be too much traffic it wouldn't be good.
Because there are quite a few children around there. She said there wouldn't be and
there hasn't been all that much. It hasn't upset me whatsoever. I think a person should
be able to do in your own home what you want to do. I wouldn't want somebody coming
and telling me what I can and can't do I am 76. I just never objected to it at all, I didn't
see any objections. I was raised in a big City, Minneapolis, Minnesota so things didn't
bother me all that much I guess.
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Johnson: Thank you very much, any questions? Anyone else that would like to testify at
this time?
Joan Blunk, 2002 Crestmont Drive, Meridian, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Blunk: I guess it was about a month ago Brigitte had called me concerning this bakery
that she was going to put in. We talked and I was at that time very honest with her that I
was opposed of it for the fact that the 8 to 10 months before that we had noticed an
awful lot of traffic coming and going from there. It didn't matter whether it was 6 in the
morning or 10 o'clock at night or 2 in the morning. Cars came they slam doors, they get
out in the winter months, they start their cars up and let the motors run for 10 minutes or
whatever until they get ready to come out. I was awake until 2' one morning waiting for
this vehicle to leave. Every car, every person, every cat, every dog that goes by her
dogs bark at. We have had quite a few people in concern with the pets as far as the
sanitation of it. She has cats in her home and the dogs out around her home. The
health department informed me that anybody that worked for her had to live within the
home. These people do not live within her home. She told me that it would not be any
more traffic than the 8 to 10 people that were picking up supplies and delivering for her.
It would be her and one other lady baking at all times. Your notice of hearing even says
that there would be two working people at all times. I am sure that this is her intention. I
don't see how one person can service, she told me 200 customers. I find this really
hard to believe because one of the customers that she said was the meals on wheels
and I work for meals on wheels and we do not buy from her. The noise is the problem,
the parking being right across from her. If they had the opening on the Crestmont side I
am sure the cars would be parking on. Crestmont Drive. I don't approve of that because
of our mail service for one and my daughter and I have late hours sometimes and we
need our early morning sleep which we won't be having because there will be all these
cars coming. It is just a combination of things, on the petition that you received, out of
20 homes, 18 homes were against it, 2 were indecisive. The homes were basically
McGlinchey, a couple of Lawndale, Crestmont Drive and the subdivision culdesac that
is directly behind her home. Out of all of those 20 homes 18 are against it. So I know
some of them couldn't come tonight to give their opinion so that is why the petition was
signed in hopes that you would realize that there is a lot of concern and for the. amount
of money that she is investing it just seems silly to do that with business expanding and
she said it herself in the future she may move on. I think that it might be a good idea for
her to do that now before she invests all of the money. Keep the neighbors happy and
keep everything on a safe pattern.
Johnson: Any questions? Thank you vwy much, anyone else?
Paul Luchi, 8649 Austin, Boise, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Luchi: I just basically wanted to, Brigitte leases from me right now and she has two
people pick up and deliver for her. Since she has been working in there I have seen her
probably 4 or 5 nights and she is by herself baking. I can't imagine noise, I don't live in
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April 8, 1997
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the neighborhood, I am just basically from what I have noticed out of our commissary.
There is from what she is doing in the commissary there is no noise, there are only two
people that pick up and deliver.
Borup: She has been there the last 3 weeks, has that worked out fairly well as far as
space and room?
Luchi: We haven't had any problems.
Borup: I guess what I was leading to, is there, is it feasible that can continue on in the
same relationship on a permanent basis? '
Luchi: From my point of view I don't see why not, my company is also (inaudible) which
space is going to be an issue at some point and I don't know to what extent her needs
are eventually down the road. '
Borup: But at the present time there is (inaudible)
Luchi: For the time being, we just personally started, I started a new business that has
grown quite rapidly. We have discussed it before, but we are just pinching space but
we are making ado because she needs to make it happen.
Borup: Parrots is your business?
Luchi: Parrots as well as a company called Dippin Dots.
Borup: Thank you
Johnson: Is there anyone else that would like to come forward?
Doris Tewksbury, 627 McGlinchey, Meridian was sworn by the City Attorney.
Tewksbury: I wrote in my letter that I felt like it sets a precedent for other businesses to
try and by homes and other people to try to start businesses and buying homes in this
residential area. I felt that it could lower the resale value of our home if there were
businesses scattered in and around. Those are my only comments.
Johnson: Thank you, any questions? Anyone else?
Mitchell: The two points I wanted to also add was number one Brigitte Stone never
came to me and asked my opinion or talked to me about what she was going to do. The
second point is that the parking that I have noticed on my street there since I am only
two doors away is approximately 5 to 6 cars parked on the street close to her house.
Plus up to four cars in her driveway. That is all.
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April 8, 1997
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Johnson: Thank you
Borup: What time has that been is that 10 cars? I just wonder what time of day these
ten cars were there?
Mitchell: Anywhere between 12 noon because I have popped home at noon once in
awhile, I work in Boise and I will dash home real quick to get something and there will
be several cars parked out there. Then I am coming home at about 5: 15 and that is
when the majority of the cars were parked.
Borup: Okay, I was by there at 10:30 and that is quite a bit different than what I saw.
Mitchell: There are children coming and going from school.
Johnson: Any additional comments? If not I will ask the applicant if they have any
comments to make on the comments that were made?
Stone: Number one Mrs. Mitchell was not notified because when I had seized the
information on who ,. needed to notify they told me within the adjacent part, area. She
does not fall in that area that I was told by Mr. Ehlert when he was helping me figure out
which areas do in this surrounding area. Neither was Mr. Card, those are the only two
reasons why , did not approach him. I don't have my contact with my neighbors I will be
the first one to admit I am not Miss Friendly person. Basically people are judging the
outside cover of a book instead of seeing the outside. There are cars that come and go,
ten cars no. I have been at the commissary for the last three weeks. I can have
testimony from Paul to verify that I don't even come home sometimes until two or three.
In the evening time at the most there are maybe two cars, three cars including my own.
That is Derrick Bell, my brothers and mine. Yes we have had to park outside because
right now sitting in my garage is some equipment that we have purchased through
auctions to comply with the Central District Health Department like a three bay sink. A
three bay sink is quite large to try to get two vehicles in. I am like I said renting from
Parrots right now, it is a temporary home. The reason' am having to pick my home to
do this is because I am not branched out so far that I am making a real sizable profit. I
am just a small person enjoying a hobby that I like to do. If it becomes something that
grows into something then yes we would look at moving down the road. I don't want to
upset my neighbors, I don't want to offend anybody and basically, yes my house has
traffic. I have teenage daughters, they have their friends over. I can't help where the
property lines go in my house. My bathroom windows faces Mr. and Mrs. Woods, I have
an air conditioning, unit that is right ,there. I apologize that if the air conditioning is
running or something else in that matter. We have a small area in our bathroom that has
a moisture problem so the window does stay a little bit open. There are a total of four
people that actually live in my home, my brother, myself and my two children. Yes I
have my other brothers that come over, my mother that comes over and spends a lot of
time with me and then Derrick Bell that spends some time with me. I have three dogs, I
have one noisy dog, yes, I try to control him, but I can honestly say those dogs are in at
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April 8, 1997
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night. Sometimes he does get out to go to the bathroom I can't help a dog barking. I
have an open end area, I have a corner lot. We try, I am to the point when I drive to my
home in the middle of the night to get something or to come home and take some
medication that I need to take I turn off my headlights so I don't shine into anybody's
thing. I have never been approached by Mr. and Mrs. Wood whatsoever to move any of
my vehicles. As far as I am concerned and I know nobody in my family has every been
approached by them to move because we are blocking their RV. I am not a hard person
to talk to, if my neighbors have a problem all they would have to do is knock on my door
and I would be happy to comply.
Bell: I have been going over there off and off for the last 8 'months or 9 months since
Brigitte and I have been dating we are now engaged. So - she is my finance and
hopefully life partner. In all of that time that I have been there I have never seen more
than about 4 cars there at one time and that was when she had family over for dinner.
She does that quite often her mother will come over at night at 5:30 or 6:00 for an
evening meal because her mother lives with her granddaughter and it is just easier for
Brigitte to cook for her and so she does. Then on one occasion on a Sunday on a
holiday when she had her family over for dinner there was a number of vehicles then
there was probably 60r 7. As far as trying to get along with the neighborhood Brigitte is
a very industrious type person she works hours that would kill most of us. I have seen
her go weeks like 22 hours a day. I know how she does it but she does it and I wouldn't
believe it if I hadn't seen it myself. She is very industrious, she is very ambitious and a
very kind hearted individual and s,he does try to get a long but she- does have a short
fuse. I have seen that happen a time or two. As far as trying to be a good neighbor I
have never seen a vehicle parked in front of the Wood's driveway. However, her being
a good neighbor even goes so far as not complaining about the two foot encroachment
that Mr. Woods has on her property. Two foot ofthat driveway is actually on Ms. Stone's
property. She hasn't complained about that, she continues to let them use that which to
me indicates that she is trying to be a good neighbor and get along with her neighbors.
The dogs, every time that I have been over the dogs are always brought in at 10 o'clock
at night or in the house. So they don't bark in the house they do bark when they are
outside in the yard. Listening to everything that I have heard here tonight it almost
sounds like people are living in different neighborhoods. As far as Mr. Woods being
contacted Ms. Stone didn't contact him because I and a friend of our Everett Shutty are
the ones that went over and contacted them. We contacted them before we turned in
the application for the accessory use permit. We talked to them and they voiced their
concerns about the parking issue and the noise that they heard I guess coming through
the bathroom window I don't know. I haven't heard that much noise in the house myself,
I know that a couple of years ago fr()m what I have been told there has been some
problems with her previous marriage and the situation that was going on at that time.
Everything that I have observed since has been a peaceful quiet type of home to be in.
Very comfortable and very enjoyable to be there and that is why I stay there. Most of
these, one final comment, most of these comments were complaints about the activities
that are going on there irrelevant to the business. They are family activities that are
going on and will continue to go on whether or not the business is there or not. So it is
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April 8, 1997
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not the business that is doing that, it is normal family activity in a residence. The fact
that she has a lot of family visiting and stuff really has nothing to do with this application
that I can see.
Oslund: I have one, I am going to have this party with a bunch of my friends and I want
to know how many I can invite. So if I call you up and tell you that how many dinners
can you put together for me? '
Stone: Depending on how many people you give me. If you say you are going to have
ten people then we can plan on a catering for ten people up to 20 or up to 30.
Oslund: What is the biggest number of people,. I have a lot of friends.
Stone: The biggest number that I have catered to is Hewlett Packard, I worked for them
but I still catered it, it was 440 people and I did it by myself.
Oslund: How long does that take?
Stone: It took me 3 Y:z days and we served a lasagna dinner.
Oslund: (inaudible)
Stone: I do put in long hours, I don't require a lot of sleep, that is very unusual for
people I am one that just doesn't require it. If I get 2 hours that is great. I am just one of
those people I don't know how to explain it.
Johnson: Anyone else have any questions?
Borup: I think the point was made that a lot of the complaints really had nothing to do
with the business. It might have been a lot easier if you didn't have all the dogs it
sounds like; Really what my question was if you really have looked into the financial
feasibility of whether it might be more feasible to rent a space rather than the expense
of the addition onto your home.
Stone: Yes I have for the last three months I have looked from here, I have looked at
properties to lease and everybody is above and beyond the budget that I can afford with
just myself. Even just myself doing it, to be real honest with you we are only paying
Parrots $500 a month and most of that they are having an opening house that we are
working out in trade too. So it is not something, $2000 is a lot of money for us right now
to even handle for the commercial zoning. There is a house right next to Cottage
Expressions the Red Door Company. We looked at that and, we were hoping that we
could do it from there and we couldn't afford it.
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April 8, 1997
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Borup: I was thinking of something even along the line of a joint think like with Parrots a
building that is already set up with the plumbing and electrical and not have to do a
major renovation.
Stone: That is true Paul and Carla are business partners right now and it is like he said
it is not causing a problem right now but Dippin Dots just opened one week ago and I
don't know if anybody is familiar with them but they are the ice cream of the future.
What they thought was going to happen slowly happened overnight. That is right now I
couldn't comply anymore if they have to bring I more freezers to comply with that area
with the Central District Health Department because there is not going to be enough
space for freezers down the road. Right now they are standing with 9 freezers.
Johnson: Any last comments? Does anybody have anything new to add? Any further
comments from the Commissioners before I close the public hearing?
Borup: I have some comments I don't know if it has be before or after the public hearing
closes. .
Johnson: I will close the public hearing at this time.
Borup: Just some comments before we move on. I am not sure what I have decided
here tonight. I am very sympathetic to the free enterprise person having their own
business I think that is a big part .of this country. I think I have some concerns on the
commercial nature of the business in a residential area. Whether it can be completely
compatible or not. Again I am not sure how (inaudible) I do have some maybe technical
thing on I am not sure if I understand the definition of Accessory Use as in our zoning
ordinance. While this maybe is more along the line of a home occupation, I am
assuming that is something the findings will help us spell out too. 'I don't know what all
(inaudible)
Johnson: Does anyone else have any comment?
Oslund: In that same vein I think the applicant brought up early on the fact that there
are, I think she said there are two properties in the vicinity that are day cares and we
would not allow a day care under an accessory use. I guess it calls into question in my
mind whether she shouldn't be here for something else. She definitely pushing the
limits in my mind of an accessory use.
Johnson: Anybody else? Well I will kind of explain to you as Commissioners vvhat our
charge is here. Because it is a little different than on an annexation and zoning or
conditional use. We are required to having findings of fact prepared. We were required
to have this hearing because there was opposition to the application. If there had been
no opposition to the application we could have made a decision without a hearing.
When the findings of fact are prepared then the charges are to either grant or deny the
application. This is not an application that we pass the buck on and send to the City
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April 8, 1997
Page 52
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Council for a decision. So this is our decision, we need to take this seriously. There is
an appeal process in the event that the accessory use is turned down, it is a 30 day
window for an appeal to the City Council, not to us but to the City Council. If they don't
appeal it then the decision is final at that time. So I wanted to kind of structure that for
you before someone made a motion to have the findings of fact and conclusions of law
prepared.
Manning: Mr. Chairman, I make a motion that this matter be referred for findings of fact
and conclusions of law.
Oslund: Second
Johnson Moved and seconded that we have the City Attorney prepare findings of fact
and conclusions of law on the application for Brigitte Stone, all those in favor?
Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
Johnson: Any further motions for this evening?
Oslund: I make the motion that we adjourn the meeting.
Manning: Second
Johnson: We have a motion and a second to adjourn the meeting, all those in favor?
Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 10:10 P.M.
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
ATTEST:
~ l11 ~ 1
WILLIAM G. BERG, JR., CITY CLERK