HomeMy WebLinkAbout05June28 CC Minutes
Meridian City Council
June 28, 2005
Page 65 of 78
De Weerd: No, because Mr. Berg just stopped talking.
Bird: Okay. Hurry up and ask and, then, I will pass all five of them.
De Weerd: You have heard Items 28 through 32 ready by title only. Is there anyone
who would like to hear them read -- any or all of these read in their entirety? I'm more
asking the gentleman behind you, Clair. Okay. Mr. Bird.
Bird: Madam Mayor, I move that we approve 05-1161, 05-1162, 05-1163, 05-1164, and
05-1165, with suspension of rules.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. The motion is to approve Items 28 through 32. If there is no
discussion, Mr. Berg, will you call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Donnell, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 33:
Discussion of Public Parking and Right of Way Vacation:
De Weerd: Thank you so much. Okay. Item 33. I will ask Mr. Bowman if he could
introduce this item.
Bowman: Clair Bowman, 4400 West Legacy Lane, Meridian. I'm here as the
administrator for the Meridian Development Corporation. I have had two hours during
which I could have gone home and gotten the graphic that I forgot, but it was only about
three minutes ago that I realized I didn't have it when I opened up things, so I rapidly
sketched one that Anna will be placing up here on the overhead shortly. We are talking
about the block bounded by the railroad on the south, Broadway on the north, Meridian
Road on the west, Main Street on the east. That block is split by a 16-foot right of way
or an alley on an east-west alignment. There is an old railroad line running down
through that, through part of it. And there -- the city has, I think, an eight-inch line under
-- sewer line under that as well. In addition, the parcel that's identified here as
Creamery B, consists of nine individual lots in the original town site plat. In the title
search for this, it was discovered that when Railroad Avenue on the south of this was
abandoned back in '29 or '39, one of those times, the city, then, placed an easement --
De Weerd: Keith's the only one that could remember that.
Bird: No. No. That's before my time.
Bowman: The city, then, placed an easement for 16 feet on the north end of those nine
lots. So, in addition to the 16 feet that are reserved for the alley, and which ACHD
Meridian City Council
June 28, 2005
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claims as its property, there is another 16-foot easement right across the north half of
these -- or the north end of these nine lots. In the same title search it was discovered
that the parcel on which Zamzow's sits there is an 18-foot easement on the north half of
the five lots, I think it is, that make up the Zamzow's parcel. We had a meeting recently
of the principals in RSCI, which is the company that has the option to purchase the
creamery. That option was supposed to have been triggered last Friday. They have
extended their option for 30 days, because in part of wanting to be certain we get this
title cleared up and get the process started for a vacation on this property. In the same
meeting we had Dave Buich and Greg Hall representing the property that you see
labeled as Buich and Hall on the northeast corner of this block and they have contacted
Jim Zamzow and had spoken with him prior to our meeting. They would jointly like to
request that the alley be vacated and that the easements on the north side of Lots 1 to
14 -- I think that's the numbering of them in the original town site plat -- be vacated as
well. They would like to have -- the situation they would like to have happen is that 16
foot right of way that's identified already, be divided equally and shared with the
properties on the north and south. That would be this right of way through here would
be split into two eight foot strips and it would, then, be attached to the properties
adjacent to it. So, the City of Meridian would pick up an additional eight feet on the
south end of its property right here, Buich and Hall would pick up an additional eight feet
there. Zamzow would get eight feet on the -- additional on the north of his property.
And this could effectively become one parcel. In addition, they would like to request a
vacation of those original city easements for -- dedicated for streets on both the
Creamery B and the Zamzow parcels. I have spoken with two of the Ada County
Highway District commissioners on behalf of this issue, they have indicated that the way
for that to happen is for the city to agree to this and request the Ada County Highway
District to initiate the process. Ted has been exploring the details of that and I think will
fill you in on what that request needs to say. I think I'm right in that, that you will be
prepared to do that. So, that's the first item for the discussion tonight. Then, I have a
second as well relating to the City of Meridian parcel. It was Lots 1 through 15 on the
south. Zamzow's has the original Lots 10 through 15 on their parcel. And the
easements -- none of the easements are shown on this map. This is a 1959 map that
Lila Hill found for me and we are going to copy that, so we have it as part of what we
can provide to our RSCI to help with the work on that site.
De Weerd: Are you sure it wasn't older? I think she had it on deer hide.
Bowman: Is this my copy, then? I think this is her original.
Berg: Yes.
Bowman: I'm supposed to get it copied and I was going to bring it to Brad tomorrow to
see if we could figure out a way to get it copied or if I just need to take it down to get it
copied. So, the first request is that the city initiate the process of requesting the
vacation of these alley rights of way. Madam Mayor, do you want me to stop there and
have a discussion about it or do you want me to go ahead with the other item first?
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June 28, 2005
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De Weerd: Why don't we first have any questions.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Clair, you mentioned a city line through there, sewer or water or --
Bowman: City sewer line.
Rountree: So, what happens to that? It has to be relocated?
Bowman: That would be relocated at the expense of the developer -- of the land
holders. The two developers are prepared to undergo that expense.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, if I might follow with a question to the Public Works director.
Is that reasonable -- a reasonable expense on the part of these folks or is there a
considerable effort involved to do that?
Watson: Madam Mayor, Councilmembers, Council member Rountree, according to the
map that we have here, it looks like this line serves Zamzow's, what was formerly the
Shell station, as well as a four inch service that crosses over to Frontier Tire. So, it is
an active line. I'm not sure where we would move it to. This is the first I have heard of
this, so --
Bowman: I forgot to touch a base.
Watson: We are probably limited on sewer. There is one south of the railroad tracks in
Bower Street, which anytime you bore into a railroad that's a significant cost. The next
one north is the alleyway behind City Hall right back here.
Bird: They don't flow uphill.
Watson: And I haven't checked elevations. I don't know.
De Weerd: I guess it would matter if they are going to build a building on it.
Watson: Yes.
Bowman: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the folks from RSCI indicated that
they have no plans to build a building over that. We did not talk about the possibility of
leaving it there. I didn't talk in detail with them about what their options were for moving
it. I anticipated that they were going to contact Brad to talk about that and I'm a little
surprised that hasn't happened yet. Although I know leek Johnson and Dave Buich are
both out of town most of this week. That may be why they haven't done that yet.
Meridian City Council
June 28, 2005
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Rountree: Well, Madam Mayor, I don't intend to engineer that this evening, but that's an
issue that needs to be resolved, I think, before we move forward.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Bird.
Bird: Mr. Clerk, on our property do we not have to have two exits, entrances, and that
was -- which nobody knew until the other day, that was a federal grant that got that
property. Is there any strings attached there?
Berg: Madam Mayor, Councilman Bird, I'd like to say before me, but I think it was
finishing up during me. I'm not sure what type of grant it was. Clair and I were talking
about that. I'll have to dig up some old records. I thought part of the condition for that
parking lot because we couldn't turn around very easily there, that we had two
entrances, the alleyway and Broadway. But I will have to look. That was a joint grant
that did both parking lots, the one on Broadway and the one on Pine. But I will have to
research that out a little bit more. Wayne Forrey did administer that grant for the city.
De Weerd: Okay.
Bird: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions on the vacation?
Baird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Baird.
Baird: And Members of the Council, I want to -- just to make a couple of comments
here about the extra 16 feet that's been referred to as an easement. I have the
document here and it was, actually, deeded to the village of Meridian as a right of way
to be a public street, so it's not just an easement, it's dedicated as a road, and the
research I have done, if it's a right of way, we can't sell, we can't give it away, they can't
adversely possess it and ACHD claims exclusive jurisdiction. So, ACHD has to be the
body that's going to vacate it. I think this is being presented to you tonight mainly for
information only. There is a process, of course, this would go through, they will have to
make application to Planning and Zoning Department, the Planning and Zoning
Commission will consider it and make recommendations to you and that would include
probably the information -- if it includes the Zamzow's portion, it would include what
restrictions we have on our parking lot. So, all would be packaged up and brought back
to you later for deliberation and a decision. So, I would advise you against proceeding
much farther tonight.
De Weerd: Thank you.
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June 28, 2005
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Bowman: Madam Mayor, may I ask Ted a question -- in this case Mr. Baird. You have
added a wrinkle to this tonight that adds significantly to the time dimension over what I
was prepared after my earlier conversation with Mr. Nary. So, your understanding or
recommendation here to the Council is that this can only come to them from
recommendation from the Planning and Zoning Commission?
Baird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Baird: Would you like me to answer that question?
De Weerd: I would really be curious myself.
Baird: Okay. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, in my research of our code this
week and, you know, what the process is, I came upon the procedure for requesting a
vacation and it is, indeed, sort of a recommendation that we make as a city to ACHD
and, unfortunately, the Sterling code link has been down all week, so I had to look at an
old printed version of the code and I want to have Anna chime in here if she knows
anything different on the procedure, but the procedure that I read from the old printed
version state application, Planning and Zoning Commission, recommendation to you,
and final recommendation from this to ACHD. That's the procedure, as I understand it.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, that's correct. The one -- it is not a
Public Hearing before the Planning and Zoning Commission, so that's the one good
news for tonight, Mr. Bowman, but -- so it just -- it could go a little -- it wouldn't take a full
six to eight weeks to go up to the Planning Commission, we could do it sooner than that.
But it does require a recommendation by them before it comes to you for approval. We
are probably talking about five to six weeks, maybe four if we hit all the time lines
correctly.
Bowman: I need to let a couple of developers know yet tonight, probably, because they
were anticipating some action tonight. Okay. May I, then, go on, Madam Mayor, to the
second item? The developers for the -- the folks who hold the option on the creamery
property at this point have talked conceptually with me and met with the owner
participation agreement subcommittee of the MDC board last week to talk about this in
greater depth. That consists of Chairman Craig Slocum, Vice-chairman Clarence
Jones, Counsel Ryan Armbruster, and myself as the committee to hear these
discussions and ultimately take recommendations back to the MDC board for potential
action. The discussion is that the developer here would like to carve off some additional
land on the east portion of what's labeled here as Creamery A, transfer title of that
somehow to the City of Meridian or to the Meridian Development Corporation and, then,
consider a parking structure of approximately four stories to be constructed on that site.
They are looking at the financial implications of that right now. Clarence Jones, on
behalf of the MDC OPA subcommittee did some initial calculations that indicate it might
even as much as carry itself, based upon some of the assumptions he was making for
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the financing in there. Right now that would be a joint effort of Buich and Hall team and
the RSCI team to construct that, with MDC ownership or participation, however that gets
worked out in details. What that allows is for this property, which currently has a
relatively narrow, long building approved on it, at a three-story height, to have a
substantially larger footprint and to go up at least one more story. There would be some
additional amenities in terms of a small sitting area park that Mr. Buich and Mr. Hall
talked about the other day as part of what they would agree to put into that in addition.
That triggers the issue and this is the second question I had for the Mayor and Bill Nary
the other day, is who should be in the parking business in the City of Meridian. Should
it be the city itself, which currently holds title to that parking lot and does the
maintenance on it, or should it be the Meridian Development Corporation in the
downtown urban renewal area. Our discussion led to the potential conclusion that it
should be the Meridian Development Corporation. That is a part of what the Council
expressed in its resolution of formation of the Meridian Development Corporation. It is a
part of what has been anticipated in the economic feasibility study and in the marketing
strategy. We anticipate there would be more specifics added to it as we develop a
master plan, but for the moment it appears that both the Meridian City Council and the
MDC board are moving in a direction that would assign responsibility for constructing
and maintaining parking to the Meridian Development Corporation owning it and things
like that. Police power, however, for enforcement of any rules that would be made
about that has to rely with the city. MDC as no police powers. That would entail some
kind of written agreement between the city and the MDC board ultimately to provide
policing authority for the parking. This would be the first issue and that is potentially
transferring title to that property to the Meridian Development Corporation, provided that
it does not violate any of the provisions of the grant with which the land was purchased
in the first place. So because of the uncertainty about that grant, we are not prepared to
ask for any action on this tonight and I have not met with either Mr. Baird or Mr. Nary on
what is the procedure we have to go through to make that happen, but in the event that
the Mayor and Council concur with the notion that parking becomes an MDC
maintenance and provision function, rather than for the city, this would be one of the
first lots we would look at to ask you to transfer title. And, Mr. Baird, I presume you
have some background on how that would have to happen.
De Weerd: Mr. Baird.
Baird: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Idaho Code Chapter 50, Title 14, sets
forth the provisions on which we can convey real property that's owned by the city and
one of the subsections in there does allow us to transfer it to other governmental entities
at -- for no compensation, if you find that it's in the best interest of the citizens to do so.
It would require a resolution of the declaration of intent to convey the property, followed
by a Public Hearing, followed by another resolution directing the Mayor to execute the
deed. So, it's at least a month process to get the notices out, have the hearing, and
transfer the property, but it's definitely allowable by code, if that's the direction that you
want to go, but to make clear, we are not talking about handing this over to a private
entity, it's government to government.
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Canning: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Anna.
Canning: On the -- I'm sorry, I just skipped ahead with out realizing it. I was going to
comment on the portion that the current -- the RSCI wants to donate for the purpose of
the parking structure. We do need to have to legal mechanism for them to divide that
off, but they do have a number of the original platted townships, so it appears that the
city owns most of the lot -- or of Lot 22 and a portion of Lot 23. So, depending on where
that line, Mr. Bowman, you just need to do a lot line adjustment for what they want to
do, unless it's all of Lot 23, then, there is no problem. But if it's a portion of one of those
original town plots, then, for the remainder of Lot 23 I would say the --
Bowman: Madam Mayor and Anna, I believe it's the rest of the partial lot and one
additional lot in the original plat that they are talking about at this point.
Canning: If it's their -- if that is the case, then, you don't need to do a lot line
adjustment, it would just be if it got to be a portion of another lot other than 23.
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: Madam Mayor, these are certainly technical details that I think can come back
to us in a concept plan. I have said it before and I'll say it again, that I believe it is the
purpose -- should be one of the most important purposes, if not the most important
purpose for the MDC to provide public parking and so in that concept I agree, one of the
things that I will say is that it's important to realize that that needs to be public parking. I
will also add an additional comment and is if Clarence Jones can -- has a formula that
says that this parking lot will carry itself, then, I know why he is in the position he is as a
professional, because that is -- would be and should be and is an amazing feet and if it
could happen it would be wonderful.
Bird: CCDC would love to have him come over.
Wardle: Yes.
De Weerd: So, what do you need from us, Clair, from Council tonight?
Bowman: I -- Madam Mayor, I believe what the developer would appreciate is some
notion of what the sentiment of the Council would be given what you have heard now,
especially with regard to the parking. Is that a comment that is likely to be shared by
other folks when it comes to a point action. I don't know how far you can go in that
explanation right now. I suspect it's not terribly far.
Baird: Madam Mayor and Members of the Council.
De Weerd: Mr. Baird.
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Baird: I would advise caution. Mr. Bowman's in a difficult position here. He's trying to
move this option along into a confirmed deal, but you're in a position that you have
notice and hearing provisions that you need to follow. So, you know, give him what
signals you can, but I'd advise against much more deliberation. We will have a full and
complete hearing on the record down the road.
Bowman: Thank you all. I appreciate it very much.
De Weerd: So, Clair, are you clear on the steps that are going to be needed for -- for
what you came here tonight?
Bowman: I am clear, Madam Mayor, that I need to get with Mr. Baird in the morning to
get those details or -- okay. I will be over there anyway.
De Weerd: It seems like your list is growing.
Bowman: Yes, it is.
De Weerd: Well, thank you.
Bowman: Thank you.
De Weerd: Council, just a heads up. The Capital Soccer League is hosting a
tournament on their Lake Hazel field -- their fields on Lake Hazel. They will be
expecting 195 teams from out of the area, thirty of them are local, and over Fourth of
July week, and they have invited our Meridian businesses to promote their business at
no charge at the games, so just an FYI for you. Also, Anna and I have been discussing
-- there is a lot of growth pressures in the south. We have given permission to staff to
move forward with the sewer study. In her enhancements for next year she is
requesting money for the land use side of that. I would like to your consideration of
moving forward with that as an amendment to start taking a look and working with the
public down there to look at--
Bird: Run that by us one more time. What kind of a -- what kind of a study are we
having? Another sewer study?
De Weerd: You approved that like two months ago.
Bird: Well, yeah, I realize that, but --
De Weerd: It's not back to you for the sewer study, it's back to you to consider the land
use part of that on what best would be utilized in our area of impact, what the people
there feel, and it's all the diligence you need for the county and to determine what future
area of impact might be.