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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2005 09-20 Meridian City Council Meetina September 20. 2005 The regular meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 7:02 P.M., Tuesday, September 20,2005, by Mayor Tammy de Weerd. Members Present: Tammy de Weerd, Keith Bird, Shaun Wardle, Charlie Rountree and Christine Donnell. Others Present: Ted Baird, Bill Nary, Will Berg, Anna Canning, Len Grady, Bruce Freckleton, Bill Musser, Ken Bowers and Dean Willis. Item 1: Roll-call Attendance: Roll call. X Shaun Wardle X Charlie Rountree X X Christine Donnell X Keith Bird Mayor Tammy de Weerd De Weerd: Okay. Good evening. I will go ahead and call the regular meeting of the City Council to order. Thank you for joining us here tonight. I sure hope all of you have exercised your right to vote. Certainly as we think of the men and women that are serving us -- and I was at a meeting today about our military and that they will be back in the next -- by the end of the year and they are out there fighting for our freedoms and the right to vote is one of those. So, I hope if you're in the Meridian School District that you have exercised that right. Welcome. It is Tuesday, September 20th. It is 7:02. I will start with roll call attendance. Item 2: Pledge of Allegiance: De Weerd: Thank you. Tonight we will be led in the pledge by Justin Schreiber. He's with Troop 68. Justin, if you would like to join us up front and if you will all rise. (Pledge of Allegiance recited.) Item 3: Community Invocation by Bishop Wayne Nichols - Lochsa Falls Ward. De Weerd: Justin, I would like to give you a pin for leading us in the pledge tonight and thank you so much. Good luck with that badge. Item No.3 is our Community Invocation. Tonight we will be led by Bishop Wayne Nichols. He is with our Lochsa Falls Ward and if you will all join in the invocation or take this as an opportunity for a moment of silence. Bishop. Nichols: Our Father in Heaven, we are very grateful this evening for the privilege of gathering here in this City Council meeting, Father. We thank thee for the great blessings we enjoy in this favored area of the land. We are thankful for the peace and Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 2 of 74 prosperity that thou hast seen fit to allow us to enjoy. We are mindful, Father, of many in other parts of the world who have been afflicted by natural disasters. Wilt thou bless them in their recoveries and assist those who are working for their relief. We ask thee to bless, Father, members of our armed services who are working hard and fighting to defend our freedoms. Wilt thou comfort them and their families while they are thus engaged. We pray, Father, that thou would look over our families while we are away in thy service this evening. We pray, Father, that those who are to speak here tonight might do clearly and be able to communicate their messages. We pray, Father, also that the decisions that are made here will be pleasing in thy sight, that they will benefit all of the community that we are privileged to live in. These favors and blessings, Heavenly Father, we ask for and we do it in the name of Jesus Christ, amen. Item 4: Adoption of the Agenda: De Weerd: Bishop, I would also like to offer you one of our City of Meridian pins and thank you for joining us. Item No.4 is adoption of the agenda. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: We do have on the regular agenda Item No.9 has been asked to be tabled for one week by the applicant to 9/27/05, which we will take care of when we come to it. And with that I move that we approve the revised agenda of 9/20/05. Rountree: Second. De Weerd: Okay. The motion is to adopt the agenda as amended. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries. MOTION CARRIES: ALL AYES. Item 5: Consent Agenda: A. Tabled from September 6, 2005: Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: VAR 05-015 Request for a Variance to allow a reduced front setback and approve the removal of the deed restriction placed on this lot for Bedford Place Subdivision by Brighton Corporation - 596 East Edgar Street: B. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: AZ 05- 024 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 5 acres to L-O zone for Seventh Day Adventist Church by Hawkins Companies - 1735 North Black Cat Road: c. Easement for Razzberrv Crossina Subdivision: Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 3 of 74 O. P. Q. R. D. Professional Service Aareement with AspireOn: E. Approve Contract for Stenoaraphic Services - MD Willis, Inc.: F. Approve ICRMP Insurance Renewal with Joint Powers Subscriber Aareement: G. Sanitary Sewer and Water Main Easement Aareement for Trov Place Subdivision: . H. Quitclaim Deed for Streetliahts within Edinburah Subdivision: I. Streetliaht Aareement for Edinburah Subdivision: J. Addendum to the License Aareement to the North Siouah Sanitary Sewer Project: K. Scopina Study for a Reaional Sewaae Pumpina Station with Civil Survev Consultants. Inc.: L. Chanae Order No.1 for the Black Cat Trunk Sewer Phase 1 Project with Bodiford Construction. Inc.: . M. Bear Creek Lift Station Uparade with DC Enaineerina. Inc.: N. Waterline Easement Aareement for Victory Road Waterline Extension bv Richard Evans: Water Main Easement Aareement for SSC Transfer Station bv Trisect. LLC: Crossina Aareement for the North Siouah Sanitary Sewer Proiect with Settler's Irriaation District: Resolution No. 05-490 : Amend the Current Collective Baraainina Aareement Between the City of Meridian and the International Association of Firefighters, Local #2311 in Regards to Pay and Benefits for Paramedic Firefighters: License Aareement between ACHe and LakeView Golf Course (through landowner City of Meridian) to permit operator of Lakeview Golf Course to install asphalt over a portion of the piped Eight Mile Lateral. : De Weerd: Item 5 is the Consent Agenda. Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 4 of 74 Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: I move -- I do need the resolution number. 05-- Wardle: 490. Bird: I move that we approve the Consent Agenda as published, including Resolution No. 05-490 and for the Mayor to sign and the Clerk to attest on all proper papers. Rountree: Second. De Weerd: Okay. Motion is to approve the Consent Agenda. If there is no discussion, Mr. Berg? Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Donnell, yea. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 6: Department Reports: A. Public Works I Building Department I Development Services: 1. Personal Services Contract between the Citv of Meridian and Whitman & Associates. Inc. to provide building inspection services and plan reviews for structures constructed within the City of Meridian: 2. Personal Services Contract between the City of Meridian and RIM!. Inc. to provide mechanical inspection services and plan reviews for structures constructed within the City of Meridian: 3. Personal Services Contract between the Citv of Meridian and DMH. Enterprises to provide plumbing inspection services and plan reviews for structures constructed within the City of Meridian: 4. . Personal Services Contract between the Citv of Meridian and Harold's Electric. Inc. to provide electrical inspection services and plan reviews for structures constructed within the City of Meridian: Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 5 of 74 5. Personal Services Contract between the Citv of Meridian and Greene's Fire Protection & Safetv Services. Inc. to provide fire inspection services and plan reviews for structures constructed within the City of Meridian: De Weerd: Okay. Item No.6, Department Reports. We will start with Public Works. Freckleton: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. We are before you this evening with the fiscal year '06 Contracts for Personal Services for our building activities. We have a contract with Whitman Associates for the structural unit inspection. We have a contract with RIMI, Inc., for our mechanical. DMH Enterprises for our plumbing. And Harold's Electric for our electric or our -- our electric. And Greene's Fire Protection Services for our fire reviews and plan inspection. What I wanted to do tonight is maybe just kind of -- again, you have seen this, but I want to drill it down a little bit further for you. With our reorganization of our Public Works Department. We created, basically, three different divisions, the operations, engineering, and development services. We are going to take off from this one and drill down a little further for you. Under development services we have -- we have our development analysts. They are the ones that do the plan reviews for all the new commercial, residential development going on in the city. Then, we also have our building department functions over here. I am pleased to announce to you tonight that this building coordinator position has been filled. He will be starting next Tuesday for his first day. Then, we drill on down to our building official, who is Daunt Whitman for our contract. Then, we have our fire review and our trade inspectors. So, under the trade inspections we have our plumbing, mechanical, electrical, and fire. I wanted to kind of give you this slide to show you basically what we were getting for our five contracts that I'm asking you to approve. We have 19 personnel that perform our inspection activities for the City of Meridian and their names are shown up there on the screen. Then, I just wanted to maybe give you just a quick slide showing you some activity. This is new single-family home activity over the last three years. The 2005 is in yellow. This is through August. We set a new record this August at 395 single-family permits issued. The previous record was set the month of July. I think we were at 342 in July 2004's numbers are shown in maroon and '03 in blue. So, it gives you a little bit of an idea of the increase in activity that we have had. And, then, the next slide is our commercial activity. Same color correspondence there to the years. Commercial is a little up and down. So, with that I just -- give you just a quick overview of what has changed in the contracts this year. Basically, they are pretty much verbatim. We have added a clause in all of them. It's item number three titled prohibited work and that's just basically a clause that we added to prohibit work within their field of expertise within the City of Meridian. Just kind of a conflict of interest type clause. The only other changes that we have seen is in Harold's Electric contract. If you remember, last year we had a transition from Harold Hudson to Harold Welch and we had both -- both parties named on the contract and this year Harold Welch is the only name on the contract, since he's been performing our services. Then, one last change and that is on Greene Fire Protection and Rich had requested an increase in his percentages from 65 to 70 percent for commercial fire code review fees and for permit fees for the cooking Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 6 of 74 hoods, commercial fire alarm systems, commercial fire sprinkler systems, fire sprinkler systems for commercial tenant improvements, remodels and upgrades, underground tank installations, hazardous material storage review and inspection and high pile combustible storage review and inspection. So, that's -- that's the bulk of the changes. We have -- all of our contractors are here tonight, with the exception of Dennis Holte, who is represented tonight by Kyle. Dennis had surgery and is not able to speak right now. So, they are here in case you have any specific questions that I can't answer and with that I will stand for questions. De Weerd: Bruce, I don't know if the Council knows each of the inspectors by face. Certainly they have seen their names. So, if you will introduce them. Freckleton: I will just give an introduction here. We have Harold Welch. He is our electrical inspector. Rich Greene, Greene Fire Protection. Daunt Whitman, Whitman and Associates. And behind them we have Terry Medley and Rod Medley. They are mechanical. And, then, Kyle over there is representing Dennis for the plumbing. De Weerd: Well, thank you. It's nice to see your faces at our Council meeting. We certainly want to open up dialogue with our contractors a little bit more often and get your impressions, according to the code changes as they come up, and our fees and we would like to have a little bit more interaction or dialogue. Only annually. So, don't worry, we won't make you come every month. Council, do you have any questions? Rountree: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Rountree. Rountree: Question for Mr. Freckleton. Bruce, I can't find -- and maybe it is in the contract language, but I don't see anything in here in terms of the expectation the city has of these folks, who, in fact, are representatives of the city and are viewed by the public as the city, as it relates to our customer service and the expectations we have. Is there something in there? If not, should it be added? Freckleton: Madam Mayor, Councilman Rountree, the -- the only specific reference that's in the contract regarding -- regarding customer service, basically, is there is a provision for termination if they are not handled in a courteous fashion. So, as far as an expectation, there isn't anything specifically written in here. One thing that we are all doing is we have spoken with Candy Weaver regarding coming in sometime shortly after the first of the fiscal year and doing a little presentation to all of our guys to basically convey to them what the city's expectations are for customer service. I think this is something that we are going to try and do annually, at least, just to make sure that we drive the point home that they are representing the City of Meridian when they are out there and that -- you know, to try and drive home the care -- the care -- drawing a blank. Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 7 of 74 Rountree: Madam Mayor. Appreciate that, Bruce. I would encourage you to do that. And then, I, would encourage the principals of all the agreement contractors that -- not just the principals receive the training and information, but it gets to their employees in the field. Freckleton: Yeah. And this little seminar that we are going to do, my intention is to have all of their subcontractors there as well. So, we would have all 19 of these contract personnel there. Rountree: Thank you. De Weerd: Any other questions? Mr. Wardle. Wardle: Madam Mayor. Bruce, as I think you and I discussed just briefly, the idea of a time line expectation for these contracts and, essentially, a liquidated damages if there is a failure to complete within a certain amount of time. Is that something that we will be looking at for a year's contract, potentially, or have you had a chance to speak with the contractors about it? Freckleton: Madam Mayor, Councilman Wardle, it is something that -- since we had the dialogue last week, it's something that we kicked around in the office for sure. We are -- next week we are going to be holding our first session of our PIG Two group and that is the Process Innovation Group. The focus of this gathering will be on the building department. So, our hope is that we can, hopefully, identify some areas that we maybe do need to look at. We also have had a study done. AspireOn came in -- well, it was shortly after, or before Gary left. AspireOn came in and kind of did a small study of our building department to try and give us some suggestion of some areas where we might look at improving. Brad Watson and myself are -- we need to get together with Phil and finalize that report. At the time the report was started, I think that they didn't really get a grasp of how many people were actually working in the department or out of the department. When they were there doing observation it was during the day when these guys are out in the field doing inspections. So, we wanted to try and get his report a little more rounded around all activities and not just those that are being handled by city employees doing the administrative functions up front. So, we were going to do that. And, then, with the -- like I said, the PIG group starting next week, hopefully we will identify some areas that we need to focus on. So, I guess I have gone the long way around the tree, but to summarize, what I would like to do is address this issue maybe at the next -- the next fiscal year when we are talking about budget, as far as putting a clause in for the liquidated damages and that sort of thing. Let's see how we do through this next fiscal year and maybe readdress it next year. That would be what I would propose. Wardle: And, Madam Mayor, follow up? De Weerd: Uh-huh. Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 8 of 74 Wardle: Bruce, that's something certainly I think -- I think that we should look at and measure this year. We talk about deliverables and the actual inspection itself, but I think that we are taking the right step bringing Candy in, but I think that we need to somehow have some measurable expectations that the city and the public can judge the contractors by and they can judge themselves by and try to gain performance. Freckleton: One other thing that I think will really be able to aid us in that effort is getting our developer -- or our building department coordinator on board and developing some tracking tools and having that person just having their finger on the pulse, basically. De Weerd: Thank you. And I guess it never hurts to have clarity on both sides. Expectations and are they reasonable. So, those are in place to just set what the expectations are. It's easier to look at those and deal with the unknowns and we have been -- we have gotten good feedback and so it's just another measure that I think as we look at our contracts and try to fine tune them, the more clarity we can add, the better off I think we all are. Wardle: Madam Mayor, just to clarify. One of the things that when I read the contracts, the city certainly has a clause for violation, but, really, our only cause of action is termination of the actual contract. And so for some of those violations that are smaller, that we can set some expectations, I think it would be reasonable for us to place those into place, rather than just have a complete termination of the arrangement. Freckleton: Certainly. And one thing that -- a point I would like to make is it is really hard to try and gauge what the activity is going to be like coming through the door. I mean as you saw from those graphs it's kind all over the board. For these guys to be able to staff accordingly and try and project what next month's going to be like, it's pretty difficult. So, they have done a really good job keeping up with things. We -- on our inspections the contracts state that they are to be done within 48 hours. Inspections, if they are called in prior to 8:00 o'clock in the morning, they get done the same day. If an inspection request is called into the office after 8:00 o'clock, they are done the next day, the following day. So, at most we are a 24 hour turnaround on inspections, so -- De Weerd: Bruce, as I understand it, we are looking at the fees and also call backs. I think as we strive for quality inspections, we need to make sure that if they are called back to a site to reinspect, that there is some compensation for that. I think that that is not unfair and we do need a look at that in its entirety and I'm glad to hear that the building position has been accepted and we will get them on board and start working towards some of this fine-tuning. Freckleton: Yeah. De Weerd: Any other questions? Ted. Baird: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 9 of 74 De Weerd: Sorry. Mr. Attorney. Baird: With regard to the performance expectations, I would make a recommendation as part of the customer service training that there will be a handout that would put forth in writing what some of the city's expectations are and I know that Candy Weaver routinely has a sign-in sheet where the participants acknowledge that they have received the handout, so we can put that in our file and link it up with that termination provision that you have mentioned, as, of course, the last resort. But that's sort of the link between letting the contractors know what our expectations are and following through to make sure of that. De Weerd: We would certainly welcome hearing from our contractors. Are there any comments? Fire. We just need all of this on the public record. Greene: Madam Mayor, City Council Members. De Weerd: Please state your name. Greene: I have discussed with Bruce -- I have no objections -- I mean we should try to meet our deadlines as best we can. But, on the other hand, what is the expectations on the gentleman or group that submits the plans if I have to go out and measure hydrants, because nobody put the hydrants there or the information is not there. Then, my choice, I feel is to reject the plans to start with, because I don't have the information to do a timely review. So, I'm not against -- or I don't have objections to a penalty, but, then, I think there should be expectations put on the developers of what they are required to do, because I have spent -- myself I have spent 12 hours sitting down with a professional engineer doing her work, because she had no idea what to do. And when I brought that question to Bruce, how much time am I supposed to do here, the response was -- and he was being up front -- well, we would like you to help her out. Well, you know, where does helping out and meeting the time line -- where does that separate? I mean I can spend a lot of time -- I mean I have laid out hydrants for Winston Moore's development. Is that my job to be customer friendly to go beyond to meet the requirements of being good value to the city and to the customer or should I say, well, geez, I have got a time line and I don't have time to sit down with you? And I think that should be part of the decision about penalty clauses and not just, well, you guys got to crank them out. Because the faster we go the more we miss and, then, we are out on occupancy day. Yeah, we got it out in a week or two weeks or whatever you want, but, then, we get out there because we missed something, because we were worried about a time line. And, then, we are doing it on occupancy day. To me that's not fair to the customer. De Weerd: I would agree with you. And that needs to -- and I don't know anything about your field, but are those not on the plans? Greene: Many times they are not. In fact, the one she had no clue. Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 10 of 74 De Weerd: Well, you know, I think the onus is on them. You know, that's why they hire professionals. That is why we have asked the tracking system to be put in place. That is why they have codes that they need to follow. And Council might have a difference of opinion to it, but you are not to do their work for them. Greene: Then, the phone calls go to your office and, then, Bruce and I spend like we did the other day an hour and a half trying to figure out what the phone call was about and, then, he spends hours doing e-mails back and forth. Freckleton: Madam Mayor, one thing that we have talked about doing is to implement a process similar to what Boise does. They do a pre-application meeting with applications for commercial projects where there is a checklist and we sit down with the applicant before he submits his application and we go through and we make sure that he has all the elements of the application that we are going to be looking for specifically. I have asked Rich to put together a checklist that are things that he's specifically going to be wanting to see on the plans. So, our hope is to be able to get them before they actually even make it into our process, to be able to weed them out at that point, rather than -- rather than have them enter the process and, then, have problems with time lines and that sort of thing. So, we want to work with the applicants, with their design consultants, before the application is submitted to make sure that it's done correctly. De Weerd: Mr. Wardle. Wardle: Madam Mayor, just a comment, Rich, on one of the things that you said. I don't think that anywhere in our contract that we need to look for what if we miss something. I think the city's expectation is the job is done professionally, that everything within the code is checked, and, certainly, one of the things that I would say for our inspectors when we start to look at time lines, let us know what's reasonable. I think we are asking at this point tell us what's reasonable, but at the same time, I think that the city needs to certainly look at what it takes to do a thorough job, a full job, just as we expect now. Greene: Well, Madam Mayor, Councilman, I'm all for doing that and I have no objection to that. I just think that part of this gathering of information, the other side of the coin is I think the development community needs to step up and provide the information on the plans, so that there is a timely turnaround, so that we don't have to call or chase an architect down, because that just takes time and, you know, if he doesn't return the phone call, then, you're into the second day and, you know, what he -- from my perspective say, well, what do I do, do I wait to try and help him out or I just stamp them, you know, unapproved and sent back, because I don't have that information? I don't think that process serves us very well. De Weerd: Well, what you can do on the front end certainly will save in that. Any other questions, Council? Comments? Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 11 of 74 Rountree: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Rountree. Rountree: I think the idea that Mr. Freckleton talked about in terms of what is the city's expectation and what are your expectations from the development community. Obviously, they have the codebook, but, you know, not everybody is going to sit down with the codebook on every project and there are certain things that you are going to highlight. So, if that's in the checklist form, the city creates a pre-application process where that can be gone through, I think it will save a lot of time. In terms you of doing work for applicants, no, if they haven't done a reasonable job, to me, the timeliness is to let them know, one, you didn't do a reasonable job, here is what we need, and here is where you can find it and here is a written notification that your plan has been rejected. So, you have official documentation in the tracking system that a transaction transpired, as opposed to a telephone call or a left message or whatever, which is one, I'm sure, the Mayor and the building department get into an issue with a developer or builder, that's what happens, is there really and truly isn't an official record and that -- I mean, to me, that just cleans it all up. If there is a rejection, it probably ought to -- there ought to be some kind of a notification and you fill in the blank the reasons why, much like the electrical inspection, you know, you didn't get the circuit breaker connected, you know, you didn't do this, that, or the other thing and you know what to fix. Greene: Okay. De Weerd: And I think you all are more aware of the things that are commonly missed or that seem to crop up more often than not, that you can put in that check-off list. You know, most common overlooked items and, then, point them out or write them out, so that they know those are items you will be looking for and they will be called if they are not complete. Greene: Okay. Thank you, Madam Mayor, Councilman. De Weerd: Thank you. Any other comments? Well, thank you for joining us tonight. We appreciate your attendance and look forward to seeing you again as the building department brings out the fee schedule. Thank you. Council? Rountree: Can we do all of these in one fell swoop? Okay. Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Rountree. Rountree: I move that we approve the Public Works building development service agreements one through five and authorize the Mayor to sign and the Clerk to attest. Bird: Second. Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 12 of 74 De Weerd: Okay. Motion is to approve Items 6-A, one through five. Is there any discussion? Mr. Clerk. Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Donnell, yea. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. B. Mayor's Office 1. Discussion of Detox Center: De Weerd: Thank you. Item B under Mayor's office, we do have discussion of a detox center and tonight we have Sheriff Raney with us. Thank you for joining us, sheriff. Raney: It's a pleasure, Mayor. I'll hand this to you, unless you are overly awake and want to clear that, you might decide -- De Weerd: I did give them the executive briefing that you had given us -- or e-mailed to me. Raney: Well, there is an extra copy, then. De.Weerd: Okay. Raney: And good evening and thanks for the opportunity to be here. I'd first like to talk to you not as the Ada County sheriff, because this isn't sheriffing business, this is about the business of our community and the fact that if somebody has a substance abuse problem, whether it be alcohol or methamphetimine or cocaine or whatever it may be, and they can't afford private treatment and they want to go to sober up or they want to go to get treatment, there is nowhere in Ada County where they can go and receive services. Where do they end up? Our police officers, our sheriff's deputies, our ambulances, end up taking them to the St. Alphonsus or St. Luke's emergency room, they sober up to the point where they are typically around a .30 or medically stable and, then, often end up in the Ada County jail. While some may think that we don't pay for those people to go to those emergency rooms, you all know better, as I certainly do as well, that impacts all of us. In the jail, the impact is not so significant in the jail, we take them into a sobering area within the booking station, they stay there for a number of hours, and they are probably released, not a great fiscal impact. But the time that it takes -- and I would leave it to Chief Musser to describe that for you as far as the City of Meridian goes, for the police officers to take them to the emergency room and sit with them until they are sober enough to be transferred over to the jail, has typically been a fiscal impact to each of the government entities. So, what happens is that I, as well as a number of people in this community, have been involved in that detox issue for a long time, talking about what we should do and what we can do and those are two different things. Time goes by, I, as well as some members of the audience, have been working on this issue and, low and behold, several weeks ago now the Ada County Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 13 of 74 commissioners approved 6,075,000 dollars for me to build a jail medical facility attached to the jail. And without going into a lot of detail, the great need for Ada County is to actually have a better, sufficient medical facility to operate for the in-custody inmates. And it strikes me, when I realize that money is going to get approved, that there is some sort of logic here, because I see the need, I see a lot of good community will for a detox center, but I don't see the funding available, nor probably the space for some sort of relationship. When Mayor Coles had the detox initiative back in I believe it was 2002, it was going to be around seven million dollars to build and three million dollars per year to operate and that would be about a 12 to 18 bed facility. I called up an architect who has worked with us in the past and I said if we wanted to build at the same time we build the medical facility, if we wanted to expand that square into a rectangle and build a community detox center and that would not be part of the jail, it would not have an entrance through the jail, it would not be processing through the jail, it would not say Ada County sheriff, nor I think even Ada County above the door, but it would be a non- custodial community entrance that happens to be co-located with the jail. About what do you think that would cost? And he put pencil to paper and came back with about three million dollars. So, for probably double the number of beds we are at less than half of the price of a stand-alone facility. We put a little pencil to paper and because I have a full-time nursing staff in the Ada County jail, that nursing staff, I realize, could pass through a security door on their rounds, having just completed rounds for the jail medical unit, and go check the inmates in the custodial -- or in the non-custodial detox facility. Program staff that are already in the jail providing programs to Ada County jail inmates could pass through the secure doors and provide programs to community members on the community detox side. Security staff, obviously, are already present. The noncustodial facility, I think there is a good deterrence of some presence and certainly there will be problems there, there will be fights, there will be withdrawal issues, but, obviously, there are deputies there to attend to those. By those efficiencies, which is really what makes this attractive, the 2002 stand alone facility are getting operating costs to about three million dollars a year. Under this model we estimate the operating cost to about 800,000 dollars a year. Now, a good plan would come to you well thought out, well researched, well proposed, and ask you for financing. I don't have any of that stuff. What I have is an idea about how to make something happen in this community that I think, otherwise, probably can't happen. What I'm asking you tonight is to consider the very near future commitment -- and if you turn to about page three -- the very near future commitment of somewhere in the neighborhood of 52,290 dollars. And that's a rough figure. But you don't have to -- you don't have to decide today, because what I did, if you will follow this math, is I used 2004 census figures and Meridian has grown, but I think there is some proportion here and I proportioned out what the city populations were to the overall county population. So, if you follow that logic, the 2004 census figures show that the City of Meridian was 13 percent of all of Ada County population. I, then, applied the 800,000 dollar -- roughly 830,570 dollar operating cost to make a portion whereby Ada County would pay an amount for every citizen in Ada County. So, for all -- I think it's 340,000 people or so in Ada County, whatever that census figure was, Ada County would pay for each of those citizens. For each of them in Meridian as well. Then, on top of that, each city would pay an equal Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 14 of 74 amount for the citizens in their city. So far everybody has felt that's a fairly fair formula. I just frankly -- De Weerd: Fairly fair? Raney: -- drew it out of my head, so if anybody has a better idea, they are welcome to put it on the table. But I think it is fair and I think the county accepts a lot of responsibility by donating the land for the facility, donating the operation, the liability for it being part of the jail, operating it with Ada County staff, but Ada County can't do this alone, Boise City can't do this alone, Meridian City can't do this alone, it takes government to make all of this happen and I think this is an equitable relationship of that financing. You may say what about going out and seeking federal funds, grant funds, state funds -- Health and Welfare has a nice pot of money for substance abuse right now, and it's my belief that I would welcome the use of that funding, but all good measures in this arena tend have a pattern and that is that everybody comes up with the money to build them, everybody comes up with grants for about the first one to maybe three years to operate them and, then, their grant funding runs out and they go defunct and close down. And without going into the belaboring of Community House, I think that's probably a good example of the best of intentions gone bad. I don't want to see that happen with this. So, I believe the government has to step up and make the commitment that this can't happen, coming up with -- in partnership of the county, all of the cities, and potentially St. Luke's and St. AI's, all of the capital funding to build it, all of the operating costs to sustain it, and, then, if, by chance, we can offset it with grant funds or other available monies, great, let's try to do that. But we have to have the commitment to make this sustainable ongoing with or without grant funds, because sooner or later they are not going to be there and this is something that needs to continue on in this community for some time to come. I have gone to the three county commissioners, to the CEO of St. Alphonsus Sandy Bruce, to the CEO of St. Luke's Ed Dahlberg, as well as every mayor and some of the councils were invited in this. I don't speak for any of them, other than to say nobody has said no and everybody believes that this has a lot of promise. By the financing alone, if we can't make this happen with this amount of money, then, we are not going to make anything happen for a long time to come, because a stand alone facility will be considerably more expensive to build, it will be considerably more expensive to operate. Taking this to some groups that include advocates, I was concerned about some of the stigma that might be present at attaching this to the jail. I had run this in my mind of what we may be able to do with landscaping, architecture, paint, and I think to be short, what I am going to ask -- if we can make this happen financially as government entities, there are a number of people - - City of Boise has a detox committee that has really done some good research. Each of the government entities, I believe, wants a voice in what may happen to some degree and some input, some knowledge of where their money is going, to be responsible to their constituencies. United Way of Treasure Valley has been very supportive and has offered a lot of resources and, in particular, Bob Banks, retired executive from Albertson's, who sits on the United Way board, along with me, has kind of taken this under his wing and he has built many many Albertson's stores and buildings across the country and is lending his expertise. So, I won't belabor this out. I will stand for Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 150f74 questions from you or if you so care, I'm certainly open to standing for questions from the community, but I hope you embrace this and agree both that it's needed and that if -- if we can't make it now, we probably won't make it happen for many years to come and so, therefore, this is an opportunity we need to seize. I guess my last caveat is -- my first business responsibility is to operate the business of sheriff of Ada County. There is no greater liability and I have said this on the record many times before, there is no greater liability to Ada County in my mind than the medical facilities that we had. Our risk manager has agreed and so, unfortunately, with that, October 1 st we are hoping to move ahead with the planning and construction of the medical unit. So, that's why I say, the very tight timeline and I apologize for that, this is I know very difficult for you. I will say there is a bright side and that is that it's going to take about 18 months to build. So, essentially, what I'm asking you for is somewhere in the neighborhood of whatever that figure was, 53,000 dollars, to be committed for your -- not this year's -- this coming year's fiscal budget, but next year's fiscal budget, prorated and offset as much as possible. But, then, a continuance for years to come beyond that. With that, Madam Flagship Mayor -- Rountree: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Rountree. Thank you. Rountree: The first comment is I want to commend you for taking this on. I think it's a very worthwhile cause and somebody had to do it. You mentioned a couple rather sizable nonprofit organizations in your discussion. Has there be any discussion about a public-private partnership involving them? Because, certainly, this would defray some of the costs that they don't recover when they have to deal with these in emergency room services. Raney: I have spoken with both of them. They are in some difficult positions, of course, with their own capital campaigns, as well as their perceptions of equity between their two organizations. And I don't get involved in that. Suffice to say that both have committed operating support to the best of their ability. Now, the difficult side is that we could allow a -- say, for example, a St. Alphonsus nurse to come over to the detox center and would welcome that support of having somebody come in and I see many community volunteers coming in, but on a daily operating cost, I, frankly can't let those nurses into the jail to take advantage of those efficiencies. What I have asked for from them in ongoing operating is the potential for psychiatric social services programs, tele- medicine, very important to me in reducing liability and getting good care for people. Both entities have committed a lot of support to saying they would welcome the opportunity to help with that. Beyond that, I will be meeting again with them very very shortly and I'm not sure what they are going to do. I think it's probably government's first role. They have looked at the cost benefit they know what that is. What they will do with those figures I can't say. Rountree: Madam Mayor, just a comment that that's what I wanted to hear it being talked about and I think they will probably be receptive in the long run. Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 16of74 Raney: They have been very supportive conceptually. Very supportive. De Weerd: Well -- and I think, too, as we discuss the substance abuse and like I talked about last week, we had our celebration of recovery awareness and a lot of it is what happens after they leave the detox center and that is where the community steps up and makes sure that these resources are known when those people pass through the doors, what the next steps are. And I believe that's what the community's role is in our for profit and our nonprofit and our faith based community in serving those people once they leave that they are not alone and I believe that our anti-drug coalition at that -- at that awareness day we talked about how many AA meetings are in the valley and I believe there were close to 300 a week, 30 a week out of the City of Meridian. It's a great segway into our next discussion, too, but, you know, the substance abuse issue in this valley has got to start meeting that head on. This is an excellent way to start with some of the mediation part of it, the prevention part, that they have been detoxing in our hospitals or in our jail without any of the resources once they leave and this gives hope for that better follow up. Raney: Absolutely true, Madam Mayor. And I might want to clarify what I see is a few sobering stations, a short-term transition, if people can afford it, then, certainly transitioning them, pairing up with community programs, whether it be AA or something else, but, frankly, there is a lot of limitations. We know that a lot of people are going to come in, sober up, they walk back out the door to go to the next bottle. Unfortunately, that's a reality, but I have a full-time staff member that does nothing but provide treatment after care programs out of the jail. I'm very proud of the success of the programs. In fact, we are just getting some research validation of the decreased recidivism of people that have gone through Ada County jail substance abuse and active behavior change programs. I had a staff member who provided that after care that the Mayor talks about. This would be a center where we could bring many after care providers, where you could return to -- initially there would be a little stigma, do I want to walk back up to the jail -- I think it will take a very short amount of time for word to spread you can walk in and receive care, whether it be sobering care, whether it be a program's care, and as long as you don't commit a crime you're going to walk back out. Donnell: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mrs. Donnell. Donnell: Sheriff Raney, you spoke to two of the things that came to my mind right off the bat and that's voluntary check in and also state support and I still believe -- personally believe that this is a state issue. It isn't an Ada County issue. It's not just a city in -- the cities in Ada County issue. It's something that, you know, the state needs to look at in terms of its support, just as it does -- whether that's through Health and Welfare or whatever. I, too, am concerned about a facility that would be part of the jail, whether it's a medical portion of it or whether it's, you know, bars and locks, it still, to me, has some issues about the comfort level of people who have not committed a crime Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 17 of 74 and yet are either needing to sober up or check themselves in, whatever that happens to be. I think it's perhaps a good start. I have a lot of questions about it and probably the biggest one that I have, Council, is how we can dedicate funds next year, whether we are on the Councilor not, whether we can make that decision or not. Those are funds that can be dedicated by, you know, the Council that happens to be the seat at the time. I mean we are allocating funds that we have no control over in this year for next year. Raney: Right. Donnell: So, those are just my comments. Raney: If I could, Madam Mayor, Mrs. Donnell, every government agency faces that same -- you cannot obligate future councils, the commissioners cannot obligate future commissions. I think what all of the government entities are looking for is a reasonable commitment, knowing that that's -- that we have to work within the law and that's the law. As far as state support, I have spoken with the first lady, who is very supportive of this and has a pretty good thumb on some access to recovery grant money currently in Health and Welfare's bank. Again, the sustainability of that money is limited. So, it's one of those pots of money that I see -- if we can make this happen, we can probably offset some costs, get it going, and look at more a long term support. Right now I'm told there is not long-term state commitment, but there is short-term commitment money available. And, you know, just to further on the stigma, we talked about that over and over and, in fact, there is people in the audience who could speak to that, but I think -- I think it can be overcome. People come to the public safety building for a lot of reasons. They visit people in jail, they walk back out the door. They get their driver's license, they get their license plates, they get information -- it is an issue and there will be some lesser amount of service than if this was a stand-alone facility somewhere down along the greenbelt or somewhere where the homeless population may -- it may serve a little bit better. I suppose my feeling is that something is better than nothing and I see the alternative as probably nothing. Donnell: Thank you. De Weerd: And we did talk about the grant funds, the access for recovery funds, and I saw the first lady today at the governor's coordinating council and those monies, you know, would most likely be available. I would say, too, that the state of Idaho in these grant funds is far above what other states are doing and it bodes well for more funding. It certainly isn't guaranteed. But I appreciate your cautious approach, too. And building a sustainability model on grant funds, you can't do that. Raney: Right. De Weerd: Chief, do you have anything you would like to add? Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 18 of 74 Musser: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I would support the comments that Sheriff Raney has made at this time and also in conjunction with that, as we move to the next item, my sentiments are the same, that sometimes in order to get action on the part of the state we have to step up to the plate and kind of be the first ones and, then, they seem to follow in suit if we have something that's working and, then, they start making more of a focus on it. So, I would support the sheriff in that regard and I think we both have sat down and looked at a lot of the same types of studies and we were involved in a lot of the same types of programs and we see that trend occurring constantly. De Weerd: Thank you, chief. Council, any further questions? Did anyone want to provide any additional testimony? It's not a Public Hearing, but if you came to support the sheriff and you have anything to say, you're certainly welcome. If you -- you would need to come and speak into the record -- for the record. Please state your name. Lanier: My name is Charlotte Lanier. I am the spokesperson for the Community Detox Coalition, but I am a resident of Boise. And I heard through -- that tonight was your City Council meeting and we have been talking about -- in the Community Detox Coalition, we have been talking about the fact that, you know, what do the outlying communities -- because often what happens it becomes Boise centric. And that's why my friend and I came tonight, because we wanted to hear what your questions were, because this isn't just about Boise, this is about our whole county, and I personally have been touched by this problem. In the last year I lost my eldest son to a drug overdose and so I have become quite passionate. If my son, who was 23 at the time, had been able to get detox -- detox through a facility, I think he would still be with us. Unfortunately, he detoxed at my home and wasn't able to stay clean and sober. I think he was getting to that point. I think it's very clear that people who begin the road to recovery, they have slips and they have problems and sometimes it's a long journey, there are sometimes people that go through, you know -- like the sheriff was saying, there are people that go through maybe a couple of times or maybe -- I have talked to people in Portland that went through the Hooper detox five times before they got it, but once they got it what a blessing, because they are now productive people, you know, and we are not wasting money. And so this is something I really believe in and I would really like to see the county -- you know, all the players in the county -- also the community to get behind this and that way we'd also like to invite you to Soberfest, which is September 30th, which is going to be a community -- for the whole county community thing, a street dance, a party, to celebrate recovery, because we believe that this is something that needs to get attention in this community and we need to have some events where people actually are celebrating the folks that do make it and there are some of us that are trying. Thank you. De Weerd: Thank you so much. We appreciate that. Lanier: And I think what the sheriff is doing is very innovative and so does the -- and the Community Detox Coalition has voted unanimously to support him. De Weerd: Thank you. ' Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 19 of 74 Curtis: I'm Melanie Curtis, I'm the Executive Director of Supportive Housing and Innovative Partnerships. We were a group that proposed to do detox about a year and a half ago. We have been working continuously on it and I am very happy to give our support to the sheriff's idea. We think it's a wonderful idea, because as we worked on it, did budgets, we knew that there is no way it's going to fly and no one organization can do it and it's going to take everybody coming together. And, you know, we have -- we have people to save. So, I just want to let everybody know that we are totally behind the sheriff in this endeavor. De Weerd: Could I ask a question? What kind of community support as far as financial and time-wise has your coalition been able to gather? Curtis: We have raised around 10,000 dollars and so we will -- we will be meeting -- we are putting on Soberfest as well. And so, hopefully, you all received invitations -- or they will be coming any day in the mail, but we -- that will also be a fund raiser for -- yes. That's it. That will be a fund raiser as well. And so what we -- what we currently do is we provide clean and sober housing. So, we are -- we are the resource that can step up after people have detoxed and provide that clean and sober housing with the accountability piece. So, we will be working together certainly. We look forward to working with all the city councils and Ada County and the mayors, as well as the sheriff, so -- De Weerd: Thank you so much. Well, thank you, sheriff. Do you have any parting remarks or -- I guess -- I guess there is a meeting this week. I have asked Chief Musser to represent the city at that meeting and certainly he would like to represent the thoughts of Council and so I think it would be helpful if you could give an indication of what your thoughts are. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Bird. Bird: They have got my support a hundred percent. And I'm sure that the citizens of Meridian will back a hundred percent, too, because it's a long overdue program and it helps everybody within the county, even within Treasure Valley, not just the county of Ada. So, you got my support a hundred percent. De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Bird. Wardle: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Wardle. Wardle: Thank you, sheriff, for being here and presenting this. Certainly I support the notion and am optimistic of additional funding. I think that the city should certainly look Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 20 of 74 at those. One of the questions I had for the chief that I think will certainly make this easier, is in my mind this seems like a very large problem and I think if we actually got some data from our officers on incidents and things that are happening in our community, we could certainly justify at least this additional expenditure. And one additional question, sheriff. Is this an adult-only facility? What would be -- would there be any -- Raney: We believe it would probably be adult only. Both males and females would be the design, but, as I understand it, getting into allowing juveniles in there, which initially I wanted to do, but apparently in the non-custodial environment even it adds so much of a dynamic that I think we are going to be prohibited from that, sadly enough. De Weerd: That was a good question, Councilmember. I think, chief, that would be a very good idea to gather some information on what -- how it would impact us. I know the sheriff had mentioned time saving, officer time in our hospitals, and bringing them down to the jail, those kind of things. If it's something that we can capture, certainly, that will help with the compelling data to put money towards it. Musser: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, we can collect that data and have it for you. On an offhand, it's approximately anywhere from about four to four and a half hours per officer if we are on a mental hold or a detox hold at this time before we get clearances. So, that's a good portion of an officer's shift at any given time and it takes him completely out of the town. But I will get you some hard numbers on that. De Weerd: Okay. Wardle: And, Madam Mayor, just another number or a figure that might bring some light would be either perceived or verified overdose calls, which are certainly, I think, something that we have a tendency to overlook at certain times and would definitely warrant this center. Rountree: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes. Rountree: I don't know that this -- we can necessarily make a motion, but my direction would be to have the city finance director Kilchenmann put this item on the list of things for consideration in rising to the level in the 2007 budget. Bird: If that's a motion, I second it. De Weerd: Okay. I don't know if we need a motion. It probably would be good for the record and maybe for the sheriff, but -- Rountree: I think that's the most commitment we can make. Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 21 of 74 De Weerd: Yeah. Okay. Well, the motion is to direct the finance director to have it on our short-term planning budget for next year and it will come in front of the City Council at that time, with a favorable support at this moment. Is that a fair summary? Rountree: That's a good summary. De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Berg, I will call a roll call on this one. Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Donnell, yea. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. De Weerd: Thank you, sheriff. Raney: Thirty seconds of indulgence for an editorial. I just want to say thank you, because when I have addressed this with every government unit, including my own, I appreciate Mayor de Weerd's leadership in how she addressed the issue. The questions were not about who else is going to be doing what, it's this is important and we should make it happen and you followed that up and I appreciate your community leadership. Thank you. 2. Discussion of Draft Pseudo-ephedrine Ordinance: De Weerd: Thank you. That does lead us into our next item and I apologize to those that are here for agenda items for public hearing. This is important city business. One of the discussion items we had last week was on the pseudo-ephedrine ordinance that I will ask Mr. Baird to give us an overview on. But substance abuse is an issue in our valley. Sheriff Smith over in Canyon County was doing an unofficial tally of some of his more recent guests that were coming into his jail and one hundred percent of them had a meth problem or had used meth and, certainly, this effort was in front of our legislature last year and there were some issues to work through. At the local level we feel that we have worked through those issues. We have worked with our retailers. A lot of the major retailers have already made a statement in putting pseudo-ephedrine products behind the counter and we are looking for some local efforts to do that and to have some enforcement to it. So, with that, Mr. Baird, I will turn this over to you for a brief summary and overview of what's in front of Council. Baird: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, what you have is a draft ordinance that was distributed to the Treasure Valley partners in an effort to have all the jurisdictions in Canyon and Ada County, including the municipalities and county governments to have a uniform regulation. We received a lot of input from the state police, from the state board of pharmacy, from our local law enforcement, from other prosecuting agencies and what you have is a compromise, what we feel is the least burdensome request for local regulation to the local merchants. Really, what it does is it puts in ordinance form what some merchants are already doing. It only addresses adult strength, it only addresses tablet form, so that jell caps, liquids, children's medicines will Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 22 of 74 all remain on the shelves and it attacks the one item that's been identified by law enforcement as being the problem and that is adult strength tablets of pseudo- ephedrine. Limits three per transaction per day. Doesn't contain any logging requirements for the merchants. Doesn't contain any identification requirement, it just merely requires that the merchant verify that the person purchasing is an adult. So, it's there for your review. We are seeking some direction on whether you'd like to have that back. I should mention that -- you probably read in the Statesman there is a federal proposition. We would ask that you go ahead and consider acting locally now. At such time that either the state or the federal government institutes something that is more restrictive, we can certainly repeal our local ordinance. But we feel this does raise the awareness and gets the issue out and puts some important, reasonable restrictions in the marketplace. De Weerd: Council, we have also been working with Representative Ring, who has brought this through the legislature last session, as well as Representative Bastian. The counties and the cities would like to have a unified signing of this by the end of October, which certainly gives an opportunity for your consideration. So, would appreciate your comments. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: I agree and I hope this is a very strong -- in reading it, it sounds like it's about as strong as we can get it at this point. It sounds like it's enforceable, which I like to see in an ordinance. If we are going to write an ordinance, we need to be able to enforce it. So, I, for one, am for bringing it forward and getting it passed and getting it under law within the City of Meridian, because meth is the worst problem, I believe, we have right now at this point. De Weerd: It's an alarming problem and certainly this is just one piece of a pretty complex problem that -- where we can make a difference, we certainly want to try. Any other questions or comments? Wardle: Madam Mayor? Rountree: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Wardle. Wardle: Madam Mayor, my only comment on this is that my fear that federal legislation will be different than this, but I think from the city's standpoint and a community standpoint, if we act in this together, all the communities come together, then, when we do have a national policy that we can adopt as a community and look at how best to facilitate that with our retailers and with our public. So, certainly, I agree that for us to band together to do this and to work with this problem is important on the outset Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 23 of 74 De Weerd: Thank you. Mr. Rountree. Rountree: Madam Mayor. A question for counsel. This, in fact, is the model that is going to be proposed to all the elected officials in the county -- in both counties? Baird: Madam Mayor, Councilmember Rountree, this is what has been distributed. I have received minimal feedback. I continue to get requests from law enforcement to include an identification -- positive identification requirement and a logging requirement. We are trying to walk the fine line and compromise that putting reasonable restrictions that the merchants will not find to be overly burdensome. In reviewing the legislative proposals from last session, it's my opinion that one of the reasons it failed was that one of the propositions is similar to the current federal proposition that requires these over- the-counter medications be distributed only through licensed pharmacists, which would remove a huge amount of the marketplace and I think it's because of those stronger, more restrictive regulations that resulted in the failed consensus. So, that's why we are proposing this. I haven't received any negative feedback that any of the jurisdictions, the councils, the mayors, want to see anything more than what's here, but I haven't heard anything positive or negative, to be honest with you. So, we are continuing to seek feedback on it. De Weerd: And it was also thought that by putting the age in there, just like in other situations, if age is in question they will ask for LD. Rountree: Madam Mayor? De Weerd Mr. Rountree. Rountree: Assuming we act affirmatively on this, is it your desire to have this go in effect upon your signing with the group of elected officials or immediately or what's your pleasure? De Weerd: I believe -- and I could pull it up. It was suggested by the end of the year to allow the retailers an opportunity to get those behind the counter or set up a lock up situation. Baird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Baird. Baird: If there is Council support for the current concept, I think what we would seek from the legal staff -- on behalf of legal staff would be your direction to continue to coordinate with the other jurisdictions on a coordinated implementation and so we'd bring this back to you published in ordinance form ready for your consideration at such time that we are aware of the timing that the other jurisdictions have in mind as well. Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 24 of 74 De Weerd: And I believe that was the end of the year for the reasons to allow the retailers to prepare. Bird: That would certainly be my desire, to have them go forward as they see fit. De Weerd: Okay. Rountree: Is that a motion? Bird: That is a motion. Rountree: Second. De Weerd: Okay. We will put this on your agenda for Council action and we do have a Treasure Valley partnership meeting next week and I will bring back next week, then, a time specific. Bird: And they will continue, Madam Mayor, to work with the other legal departments in the county and bring the final rendition of the ordinance back? De Weerd: Yes. That's what we will bring. If there is any changes, we will give an overview on that first. Bird: Okay. Thank you. De Weerd: Okay. There was a motion to bring this forward. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. C. City Attorney - Bill Nary 1. Discussion of Ordinance Amendina Title 1. Chapter 11. Section 4 of the Meridian Citv Code reaardina Annexation: De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Item C, City Attorney. I don't think you're Mr. Nary, but I imagine you're prepared to give these reports. Baird: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I am prepared to make the presentation with regard to the proposed amendment to Title 1, Chapter 11. It's in your packet and all it does is allows the city to take application for annexation where there is a voluntary request of the land owner, as long it's contiguous and adjacent to the city, but without the requirement that the land be within the area of impact. It's just matching up our ordinance with what's allowed under current state law. If you're in agreement with this, Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 25 of 74 we could, actually, consider moving it to the end of the agenda or we can bring it back at a future date. With that I'll stand for questions. De Weerd: Okay. Council, any questions? Okay. Rountree: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Rountree. Rountree: I move that we move Item C-1 to the end of our agenda for consideration. Bird: Second. De Weerd: Okay. Motion to -- okay. Suggestion from the clerk is to go ahead and act on it now. Rountree: I'll withdraw my motion. Bird: Second withdraws. Donnell: Okay. I'll make a motion. Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes, Mrs. Donnell. Donnell: I'd like to make a motion that we approve the ordinance amending Title 1, Chapter 11 of city code regarding annexation. Wardle: Second. De Weerd: Okay. The motion is to approve Item 6-C-1. Is there any discussion? Mr. Berg? Berg: Thank you, Madam Mayor. I'll just read the ordinance number that we are going to adopt. Ordinance number 05-1182, an ordinance amending Title 1, Chapter 11, Section 4 of the Meridian City Code regarding annexation and providing for a waiver of the reading rules and providing an effective date. Roll-call vote. Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Donnell, yea. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. 2. Ada County Reauest to Commit to usina the New Cell at the Landfill: De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Item 6-C-2. Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 26 of 74 Baird: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. In your packet are a number of items pertaining to the Ada County's application to expand the landfill. You have a -- get to that section. You have a copy of the feasibility study and, most importantly, the issue to be addressed by you tonight -- or within the next few weeks is the letter from Rick Yzaguirre, dated August 5th, where the county is seeking a commitment from the city to utilize the expanded landfill. We do have Steve Sedlacek in the office -- or in the audience tonight. In my office. Your office. And he may have some input on this. I should also mention that there is a letter from attorney Frank Walker, who represents Idaho Waste Systems. They are offering an alternative to the Ada County Landfill. They have requested to give you a presentation on how that may or may not save you money. The Idaho Waste Systems facility is in Elmore County, just across the county line. There is no requirement that you act on that. I just wanted to call it to your attention. And with that if Mr. Sedlacek has some words, I think now would be a good time. Sedlacek: Thank you, Madam Mayor and Members of the Council. Sanitary Services has -- De Weerd: If you will state your name, please. Sedlacek: Oh. I'm sorry. Steve Sedlacek. Sanitary Services, 2130 West Franklin. De Weerd: Thank you. Sedlacek: Sanitary Services has produced a memorandum to the Solid Waste Committee with our comments on the feasibility study. I don't know that if that's in your packet or not. I know Councilman -- Rountree: We had it previously. Bird: We had it previously. Sedlacek: Oh. Okay. Councilman Rountree was part of our Solid Waste Committee where we talked about this. We, frankly, has the hauler of the garbage in Meridian, would -- we believe this is a City Council decision. Obviously, we'd just as soon stay out of where you want the garbage sent. We can take it anywhere you want. Effectively, January 1 st our transfer station will be operational and we can drive it to anywhere you want. It just costs more money the farther you want to go. We have nothing but good things to say about the Ada County Solid Waste Department. They have offered innovative programs throughout the years at low cost. And also we have worked with Idaho Waste Systems in Elmore county. We ship a little bit of waste out there that we collect in Elmore county. And they run a perfectly good operation also. So, I'd just leave that up to the Council. One concern -- I think we are at a crossroads where the city could ask for -- if you have concerns about how the county is raising their rates -- I know that the Mayor and I sat down on a meeting a few weeks ago -- or perhaps it was more a month ago regarding how the county tends to bump up their very rates very Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 27 of 74 abruptly and very -- a lot and perhaps there is some chance here to negotiate how things are run. Although, frankly, the county could probably say to you, well, say yes or no and that's the way it's going to be. So, I guess I'll leave those thoughts up to you. I'm not sure who -- where we go from here and -- De Weerd: I think that's fair, if -- and, certainly, Steve, we want to keep the rates to our citizens absolutely as low as possible and if -- I know we get better economies of scale by keeping it as close in as possible and certainly by bringing it to the Ada County Landfill, that gives us also additional opportunities for the recycling and those kind of hazardous waste and those programs as well. So, that certainly is a benefit to our community. I think you raise a good point in -- upon Council's recommendation that it can be written in our letter to suggest that we do need a better process of keeping fees in line and doing it on a more frequent basis, so that the impact is not felt so heavily. Also, that it's done in a timely manner, so we have the appropriate notification to our citizens and it is in line with the other cost of living adjustments that are needed to be made as well. Sedlacek: One of the concerns I expressed in my memorandum -- well, just, first of all, this is a 15 year commitment that the city is going to make to the county. After the 15 years is up I'm not sure exactly what happens under state law, but during the 15 year commitment, if, for example, all the cities were to opt into this system, you are allowed to opt out. You are still on the hook for some of the capital costs, but people can leave. And what happens, then, is that the people who stay are left with higher operational costs and those costs will be passed onto the public if people start to split up. And one of the concerns I have is there is a proposed second landfill in the county and if you start spreading the waste, the rates will rise and I don't -- I'm not ever going to take the waste there to this other second landfill, but -- so Meridian will be presumably at the original initial landfill. It seems odd that we are all making this commitment to one spot and, then, all of a sudden there is the option to leave. Well, a commitment is a commitment to me and it seems like we ought to go to the same spot. Just an observation. It's a pitfall. I don't know that there is anything you can do about it, because that's how the Idaho Code is written. But it's a concern. De Weerd: Well, if it's a pitfall, I don't think we can encumber future councils. Mr. Baird, is this something they can even be asking us to do? Baird: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, it's written into the statute and I had the same thought when I was reviewing it, it specifically requires that we make a long-term commitment. However, to counterbalance that out, you do have the opt out provisions and it does give a specific structure for how you will be charged for your cost of withdrawing. So, really, in answer to the question of how do we proceed, where do we go from here, we have 90 days from the day of August 5th letter to respond to the county on whether it's the intention of the city to participate in the proposed facility or to develop an independent solid waste processing facility independent of the county. Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 28 of 74 De Weerd: Is this something that we can ask of the county once the second site is built, how that will affect the rate structure of this site that they are asking us to commit to? Baird: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I think that's a fair question. If you do not feel it's been properly addressed in the feasibility study, you could probably ask for additional information and that request would probably give you some additional time to respond. Sedlacek: One of the parts of the statute -- I don't want be too -- act too much like a lawyer here, but -- I don't understand it. One of the issues is when you make the commitment specifically states that they do not have to commit back to you that they are going to meet any sort of rate structure. They can double the rates every year -- not that they have. I mean they have a very good history operating the landfill. But it's a one-sided commitment. De Weerd: Mr. Wardle. Wardle: Madam Mayor. Steve or maybe Councilman Rountree can refresh my memory. Did the Solid Waste Advisory Committee come out with a recommendation at the time that the county was doing their feasibility study? Did not? Rountree: No. Sedlacek: No. Wardle: Okay. And, then, my follow-up question to that is there are additional services which citizens of Meridian receive at the county landfill which would not be available in the Elmore site; is that my understanding or -- Sedlacek: I think that they would make all of those -- all of those programs available to the citizens. They'd have to come up with a household hazardous waste collection program. They would have to come up with a waste segregation program. De Weerd: Probably with a fee. Sedlacek: Well -- and they would have to tell you what that is. I don't know. De Weerd: Okay. Donnell: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mrs. Donnell. Donnell: Just an observation, I guess, since this is the first time that I really had anything to do with waste much. And that's -- it seems to me that Ada County has us over a barrel. It reminds me a little bit of -- okay, I'm going to go back to my, you know, Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 29 of 74 past life and it's like local school districts that are told that they have local decision making authority and, then, end up with no local decision making authority on some issues, because there is a state board above them that writes the rules and I don't know quite how we have any options with Ada County when it comes to landfills, unless we decide to have our own. So, do we have any good land that we can start creating our own landfill? De Weerd: Oh, good heavens, no. We don't want to do that. Donnell: I really don't. I was joking. But it still just bothers me. Sedlacek: Madam Mayor and Councilman Rountree, I believe specifically in city ordinance it's prohibited that you develop a landfill. De Weerd: Thank you. Sedlacek: Unless you want to change the ordinance. Donnell: I want control. Rountree: You want more control. Sedlacek: Under state statute I believe the counties have ultimate control of disposal and cities have control of collection. And that's the way the state codes have been written and we have been living with that for, you know, many many years. De Weerd: Well -- and our voters are the same voters for the county commissioners and if we can out -- or outline in our correspondence to them the concerns of public notice and more timely notice, so that we can encourage our citizens to comment, I think we are at least encouraging a more interactive public process than has been done in the past. Donnell: Follow up, Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Uh-huh. Donnell: Because that's exactly what happens, is that there -- without those provisions in place, then, really, the city bears the brunt of the criticism when rates go up, not anybody else. Okay. I don't like that. De Weerd: That's why you get paid the big bucks. Any other comments from Council? Rountree: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Rountree. Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 30 of 74 Rountree: We have a bit of time here and I'm not going to practice law and Bill and Ted can do that for us, but it is -- yeah. Thanks, Bill. But if there is a way to provide some degree of protection in a counter offer or a counter in the ultimate acceptance of Ada County handling our trash to where we might be able to get out with minimizing cost, if they, in fact, become noncompetitive, once there are competitors in the three county area and, then, I would also suggest that this probably was drafted a number of years ago, don't know what the date is on the statute, but it might be something that we would like put on AIC's legislative calendar for review by the legislature. The whole topic. Donnell: You're so politically correct. Rountree: It's politics. You got to play the game, so -- Baird: Madam Mayor and Members of the Council? De Weerd: Mr. Baird. Baird: The statute does talk about operating an independent solid waste processing facility. It's not necessarily our landfill. You do have an invitation from Idaho Waste Systems to make a presentation to you on how they could provide with you that independent solid waste processing facility. If, indeed, you're looking for some negotiating points with the county, it might be worth your while to consider hearing from them and how they are able to take waste from Valley county, Boise county, Bingham county, as well as Elmore county, and the municipalities that are contained therein -- I'm curious myself, to be honest with you. So, I don't want to promote that, I just wanted just to point out that you do have a letter requesting an opportunity to make that presentation to you. De Weerd: Okay. Council, what direction would you like to go? Rountree: Just a question, Madam Mayor. Is this Frank Walker here the ex-county commissioner? Donnell: Ex-county commissioner. Defeated. De Weerd: Yes, it is, Mr. Rountree. Rountree: I was curious. De Weerd: So, what would you -- how would you like to proceed forward with this? Baird: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, we have until November 5th to respond to Ada County. We can continue to look into it, come back to you with additional information, and if you have a desire to hear from Idaho Waste Systems, we can put them on a future agenda pursuant to your motion. Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 31 of 74 Donnell: Great. Do we have to make a motion? Rountree: Go right ahead. Donnell: All right. Madam Mayor, l'd like to move that we delay response to Ada County commissioners regarding the landfill and direct city attorneys or whoever to contact Elmore county and ask them to make a presentation at a future Council meeting. Rountree: Second. De Weerd: Okay. Motion is as stated. Is there any discussion, Council? Okay. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 7: Items Moved from Consent Agenda: De Weerd: I'm thankful that Dean is here tonight, so that he can capture that motion. There were no items moved from the Consent Agenda. Item 8: FP 05-056 Request for Final Plat approval of 53 single-family residential building lots and 20 common lots on 18.25 acres in a R-4 zone for Kinasbridae Subdivision No.1 by Vision First, LLC - 4070 South Eagle Road: De Weerd: Item 8 is a FP 05-056. We will open with staff comments. Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council -- there we go. The first plat on your agenda tonight -- we do need to talk about all three of them briefly, but the first one is Kingsbridge Subdivision and I do need to point out that there is one issue -- or, actually, two issues to talk to you about. This is a large preliminary plat, so it's on several drawings. The important lot under consideration is this one right here. It fronts Eagle Road. This is Dartmoor Subdivision just north of it and it's squared off as it faces Eagle Road. But as we go to the final plat, you will notice that it's angled. Now, normally I would not bring this to your attention. However, in the agreement that the developer made with the Dartmoor community, there is some very specific language about perimeter lots and more specifically about those that border the Dartmoor Subdivision and it certainly meets the intent. The intent is to not increase the number of lots. For example, taking three of these lots and creating four lots instead. So, it certainly meets the intent of what their agreement was. However, it does say that no perimeter lot in Kingsbridge Subdivision shall be reduced in size below the square footage shown on the preliminary plat and this is about 3,600 square feet less than what we approved on the preliminary plat. Staff is -- and my determination is that it still in substantial compliance with this, but I felt it important to point that out for Council's consideration Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 32 of 74 tonight. The other issue involves tiling in an irrigation ditch and Mr. Grady is going to speak to that one. De Weerd: Anna? Canning: Yes. De Weerd: Is that the northwest corner of the plat? Canning: We don't have a vicinity map for you, but perhaps this is best. This -- you can see how Dartmoor fits in here. Okay. And, then, you come down and you go south -- oops. And this is that corner. So, it's, actually, toward the southern end of the project, but it's the north -- northwest corner towards south. De Weerd: Northwest corner towards south. I believe that neighbor was very concerned about drainage and I'm just counting on my memory, but is there a topography issue where that's a little bit higher than the neighbor to the west? Canning: The neighbor that testified at the hearings was actually this neighbor. This was way further south. De Weerd: Oh. Okay. So, it's against the road? Canning: Yes, ma'am. And the purpose of angling it off in that -- as I understand it, is to allow -- it's going to help the pressurized irrigation system. They are using that as a reserve pond for some water. But it will be aerated, so it will be a water amenity. So, this neighbor would still have a backyard, but they are going to have a water amenity. So, I think it's ultimately in the -- to the benefit of this property owner, but it just doesn't meet the exact wording of the agreement, but certainly meets the intent. De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Len, did you have comments? Grady: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, with regard to irrigation ditches, the preliminary plat had mentioned that all ditches were to be tiled. There are two ditches there, a Ten Mile feeder and Nine Mile drain, which are going to be virtually impossible to get approval to tile those and staff's recommendation is that we relax that and we are fine with not requiring those to be tiled. De Weerd: Okay. Is the applicant here? Do you have any comment? It's like asking an attorney if he has any comment. Kirkham: Not quite. De Weerd: Please state your name and address. Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 33 of 74 Kirkham: My name is Kirby Kirkham. Business address 462 East Shore Drive in Eagle. Madam Mayor and Members of the Council, I will just kind of address what they have -- staff has done a pretty good job of explaining it. We did have -- well, in looking at the, you know, preliminary plat, we do our design and do the best what we can. When we get in deeper, for irrigation as far as the lot up in the corner near Eagle Road, it became the best solution to -- the developer didn't want to cut down that lot, but it became the best solution for irrigation for the project to have basically almost a holding pond that will incorporate into a water feature for the site and kind of our monument sign is planning to go there, to use that and we are going to pump out of that pond, so to route our irrigation water in there, so we don't lose, because we either have to use it or lose it and if we can have a little storage. That's, basically, the background on that pond. And, of course, no developer likes losing acreage, but we lost acreage to open space that will be in their backyard. So, that's kind of where that pond came in. And as far as the ditches, it will be virtually impossible to get approval of tiling those. It was our intent to tile at least on the southern portion. We were going to come along the southern portion in our land on adjacent to Eagle Road, the Nine Mile drain, but per our conversations with the Corps of Engineers when we were going about permitting it, they classified it as a natural drainage way and to get an approval we must go under Title 27, General Permit, which does not allow piping a natural drainage way, even though it only holds intermittent -- maybe some stormwater and intermittent tail water from the ditch. So, it was our intent on tiling it, but now we are working with the Corps or Engineers to make it kind of a nice natural drainage way. We don't want any just rundown ditch there, so we are going to grass it with some -- well, per Corps requirements and per our developer we want to keep it nice, because it is going to be a pretty nice subdivision, so we are going to use some -- get the wording here. Some natural vegetation and keep it a -- basically an enhanced waterway is what it's called and classified as. So, unfortunately, we couldn't tile it, as was our plan, but that's kind of the background on what we have there and the reasons behind it. De Weerd: Thank you. Council, do you have any questions for the applicant? Bird: I have none, Mayor. De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. So, you are in agreement with their recommendations? Kirkham: Yes. De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Okay. Council? Rountree: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Rountree. Rountree: I move that we approve Item No.8, FP 05-056, subject to $taffs comments and the applicant's agreement. Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 34 of 74 Bird: Second. De Weerd: Okay. Motion to approve Item 8 with changes as noted. Mr. Berg, will you, please, call roll. Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Donnell, yea. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 9: FP 05-057 Request for Final Plat approval for 16 commercial building lots on 10.9 acres in a C-G zone for Dorado Subdivision by Kimball Properties, LLC - northwest corner of South Eagle Road and East Overland Road: De Weerd: Item No.9 has been requested to be tabled. Do I have a motion? Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: I move we table FP 05-057 until September 27th, 2005. Rountree: Second. De Weerd: Okay. Motion to continue Item 9 to next week on the 27th. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 10: FP 05-058 Request for Final Plat approval of 55 single-family residential building lots and 5 common lots on 20.81 in a R-4 zone for Bridaetower Crossina Subdivision No. 13 by Primeland Development, LLP - south of West McMillan Road and west of North Linder Road: De Weerd: Item 10 is FP 05-058. I will start this item with staff comments. Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I do need to make a brief comment on this one also. The area that's circled is part of Bridgetower Crossing Subdivision. As the Bridge -- this is one of the final -- actually, it's the next to the last final phase of Bridgetower, I believe, and as Bridgetower has been built, lots have shifted out of some of the phases. This phase, actually, includes more than were shown in the preliminary plat. There are still quite large lots. The applicant has demonstrated with great detail that these are still within the approved number of the preliminary plat and I'm satisfied that substantially complies with the preliminary plat and we are recommending approval. And we do have a letter from the applicant stating they are in agreement with all the conditions of approval. Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 35 of 74 De Weerd: Thank you. So, I don't imagine the applicant has any comment? Okay. Council? Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: I move that we approve FP 05-058 with staff comments. Rountree: Second. De Weerd: Motion to approve Item 10. If there is no further discussion, Mr. Berg. Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Donnell, yea. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 11: Public Hearing: AZ 05-030 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 5.1 acres to R-8 zone for Windwalker Subdivision by Beckit Development, Inc. - 2770 South Locust Grove Road: Item 12: Public Hearing: PP 05-030 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 24 residential building lots and 4 common area lots on 5.10 acres in a proposed R-8 zone for Windwalker Subdivision by Beckit Development, Inc. - 2770 South Locust Grove Road: Item 13: Public Hearing: VAR 05-018 Request for a Variance to reduce the street side setback to 10 feet for Windwalker Subdivision by Beckit Development, Inc. - 2770 South Locust Grove Road: De Weerd: Okay. Items 11, 12 and 13 are public hearings for AZ 05-030, PP 05-030, and VAR 05-018. I will open these three public hearings with staff comments. Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is the Windwalker project. It's located on the east side of Locust Grove Road north of Victory. And you will see, as you see here, it is an in-fill property. The Enclave Subdivision that you saw recently was just up here. So, we are just one property south of there. The applications before you tonight are annexation and zoning, preliminary plat, and a variance application. As you can see, there is one existing home on the property. That will be removed as part of the subdivision, as you see here. This is a request for annexation and zoning, as I mentioned before, and it would give -- the final plat creates 24 building lots and, then, four common lots on 5.1 acres in a proposed R-8 zone. The houses are -- I'm going to point them out, because the house layout does become important, as you see them there. They all share common drives and that's kind of the gray area. That's not a common drive, that's a single one. And these are all common. And these are, actually, Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 36 of74 two attached units facing a common drive and another two attached units facing a common drive. The request for the variance -- and I lost -- there it is. The request for the variance is for the front setback. Normally, you would have 15 foot setback here and a 15 foot setback there. If you call this the side of the house, which is kind of how these houses orient, for awhile we had a five foot setback, particularly down here, that the adjoining property owners were upset about. So, the Planning and Zoning Commission recommended ten feet, which bumps this up to 15 feet, they are requesting ten feet here, and that's the variance. I can get into a little bit more detail about that as we go through. The Planning and Zoning Commission did hear this item on July 21 st. At that first hearing they took quite a bit of testimony on the density of the project, the size and type of the houses proposed, continuation of stub streets -- this property has two stub streets to it. And the addition of potential pathways and park lots on the Eight Mile Drain, which is on the east side of the property. And, in addition to that, this side yard setback, particularly to the south, a five foot setback was being proposed on the south boundary. Planning and Zoning Commission tabled or continued the item to give the developer an opportunity to meet with the neighbors one more time. They held a second meeting and the neighbors were still concerned about the -- again, the major issue was the attached products on the south boundary and the five foot setback. They were still concerned, but they felt more comfortable accepting those units if the ten foot side setback was maintained along the rear setback. And that is how the Planning and Zoning Commission approved it. That necessitated the ten foot setback along the front to keep their units, as you saw before, their tolerances for fitting those structures in there is pretty tight and briefly staff is generally supportive of the variance in that this is an unusually shaped property. It is very narrow and it has two stub streets and you have to connect the two stub streets. You don't get to ignore one. The ACHD made it clear that both stub streets had to be connected it there to be a connection from one neighborhood to the other, you couldn't put a cul-de-sac here or a cul-de-sac here, and, then, not connect the two. You had to connect the two stub streets. So, given that constraint and the unusually narrow width of this property for a five acre property, there is some justification for a variance in this case. These are some of the elevations that the applicant has provided. And, again, this is the detail of the -- how those units sit on the lot. The outstanding issue before Council is, really, the variance. Council must determine that there is a hardship on the site that warrants the ten foot setback that couldn't be remedied in some other manner. With that, I will answer any questions. De Weerd: Okay. Council, any questions for staff at this time? Okay. Is the applicant here? If you will, please, state your name and address. Harris: Kevin Harris. Business address is 1800 West Overland Road in Boise. De Weerd: Thank you. Harris: First off, I'd like to say we agree with the conditions set upon us by staff. We have placed a great deal of effort into the plan in front of you tonight and we have gone through numerous layouts and this is the best plan that we could come up with for this property. The developer would like to discuss their plans of the development and the Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 37 of 74 amenities this subdivision will provide to its residents, if I can sit down and let her come up. Thanks. Williams: Good evening. De Weerd: Good evening. Williams: Carla Williams. Business address is 2065 East Fairview Avenue in Meridian. De Weerd: Thank you. Williams: And I'd like to talk just a little bit about the features of the subdivision, the type of homes that we are planning on building in this subdivision and some of the benefits that we think we will be bringing to Meridian. It's kind of a unique design where we have common driveways, so the garages do not face the street. This is going to be a Northwest Energy Star subdivision and with the number of units that we have going in, we will save 108,000 pounds of greenhouse gases out of the air every single year, because of the Energy Star construction. I think this is the first Energy Star division -- subdivision in Meridian. And one of the features of Energy Star is we will save 30 percent heating and cooling resources in every single home. So, that's a nice feature. We are planning on plush landscaping, excuse me, as part of the homeowner association. We will be maintaining the yards. We will have a Mediterranean architecture. The homes that you saw here on the overhead are -- is actually another subdivision that is in Eagle and ours will be similar to that, although all of our floor plans are single level. There are no two story plans. And that was one of the concerns of the neighbors, having two story homes with the narrow setback that we had proposed. So, being all single level homes I think is beneficial to the neighbors that we are backing up to. We are planning on having a gazebo in one of the park areas, park benches and, of course, we have sidewalks on both sides of the street. The homes that will be in the subdivision, like I said, are Energy Star single level homes. Eight of the homes could be ADA compliant for customers that may want that. They will all be three bedroom, two bath, with oversize two car garages. They will be designed with a flex room kind of idea, so that one of the bedrooms could be a den, so you can have two bedrooms, plus a den. They will be two by six construction, nine to ten foot high ceilings. Hardwood floors, upgraded carpets, solid surface counter tops, fireplaces, covered porches, and the exteriors will be designed with low maintenance in mind. The elevation that you see here is -- it will be a typical elevation of this subdivision. It kind of has a Mediterranean look to it. The target market that we are looking for are empty nesters that are looking to downsize, but they want a lot of upgrades, with the smaller homes, but very nice homes. Retirees that may want a summer home and want to leave for the winter. They don't want to have to worry about that maintenance of their yards and so the maintenance of the yard will be included in the homeowners association fees. And so those types of customers could feel very comfortable leaving their home and it would be maintained. Homeowners that are looking for a highly efficient home, a home that has better indoor air quality, comfort, quieter on the inside, and environmentally friendly and the Energy Star package provides all of those type of benefits to the homeowner. Also Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 38 of 74 grandparents that might want to be close to their grandchildren. And, as you can see from the bigger map, there are a lot of homes that are built around this area and there is a lot of grandchildren living in those homes. So, this could afford grandparents that want to live closer to their children, but don't want a big home and a lot of maintenance to that home, but they want something very nice. The next slide kind of shows you the view that John and Glenda Shipley have had for many many years out of their property. This view was really a 360 degree view, because when they bought the property there was no one around them. The next slide shows what's currently around them. It started with Los Alamitos to the north, then, Sherbrooke Hollows to the south. Thousand Springs to the east. And Tarawood to the east. Most recently Inglenook to the north. So, they have, basically, been completely built around and having endured the development and the construction of hundreds of homes and many subdivisions and they would just like to have a nice subdivision on the property that they loved and lived in for many years and we think that we have put a program together that will do that. We did have a neighborhood meeting on July 13th and there were seven major concerns that were brought up by the homeowners during that meeting. One of the concerns that was the homes would be too small. And, as you can see here, the average square footage in Windwalker is 1820 square feet and the average square footage of the surrounding subdivision, really, is pretty much in line with what we are proposing to build. The second issue that the neighbors had was that in Windwalker, because we have some zero lot line product, they didn't understand what type of home we were building and they were concerned that it could turn into a rental community. And our take on that is that investors are really looking for something a little -- pretty low cost per square foot, so they can be competitive in the rental market and if you look at the cost per square foot of what we have projected, we think that we are coming in around 123 dollars a square foot, but the surrounding subdivisions, the lowest cost per square foot was in Inglenook at 82 dollars a square foot and Tuscany Village at 114 as the highest. So, Windwalker will really be one of the higher cost per square foot homes that could be purchased in the area. The reason for that is the features and the amenities we are putting into the homes, the landscaping, and the Energy Star package. The third concern was that the CC&Rs would change after people purchased and we turned the homeowners association over to the new homeowners. And our belief is that people really seek out and buy in communities that they want to live in and the reason they choose that community is because the way it's set up and managed. So, we really can't see that there would be any changes to the CC&Rs that we have proposed. The fourth concern was the traffic that would be coming through Inglenook and Sherbrooke to get to Windwalker and there was a concern about people speeding through and the children that play and live in both Sherbrooke and Inglenook. There was a request that speed limit signs be put in and children at play signs be put up and we would be in full support of that, but we do believe that that is ACHD's decision and responsibility if those type of things need to be done. We really don't expect that the people buying the homes in Windwalker would be disobeying the law and speeding. So, there is not a lot that we can do about that, but also you might notice that coming into Inglenook here, there is really not a very long street before you turn to come into Windwalker. Same way on the Sherbrooke side it's even shorter to here. So, it's not like you have a really long straight road to come through and speed on anyway. The Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 39 of 74 fifth concern that came up was the park, which is right here in Inglenook, that the residents here would try to use that park, which is a neighborhood park, it's a subdivision park, it's not a public park. They do have a sign posted at the front of the park that it's for Inglenook residents only. We do have some nice common areas in the Inglenook -- or, excuse me, in the Windwalker Subdivision here and down here that is ample space for these residents to use and enjoy, without using the Inglenook park. The sixth concern were the setbacks, which has already been addressed, and we have already applied for that variance. I was able to talk with 71 percent of the households that back up to Windwalker, both on the Inglenook side and the Sherbrooke Hollow side. Of those 71 percent of the people that I talked to, either personally or on the phone, were in support of the variance, the ten foot setback variance. Ten percent of the homes are vacant and 19 percent of the people I was not able to contact. So, I don't know if they are in support of or against, but based on the 71 percent I think that they would probably be supportive. And the last concern that the neighbors had was the heavy equipment coming through their neighborhood in the development of the project. We do have approval from ACHD to use a temporary access, which is the current entrance that is right here on Locust Grove during the development of the subdivision. Once the subdivision is developed we would need to have construction of the homes come through both Inglenook and Sherbrooke. There is a couple of documents that I have attached in support of a number of things. The first one is a letter to Elroy Huff on the mediation of trees that are currently on the property. The second one is a letter from Patricia and Keith Onus, who live in Sherbrooke Hollow and are in support of the Windwalker Subdivision. And the final attachment is the residents that I have talked with about the variance and who has actually signed up in approval of that variance. Any questions? De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions for the applicant? No. Thank you very much. I do have three people who have signed up to indicate their support or opposition. If you would like to provide testimony, when I call your name, please, come up. Mr. Shipley is signed up for. Shipley: I have lived there for -- I'm John Shipley. De Weerd: Thank you. Shipley: I have lived there for 32 years. De Weerd: Mr. Shipley, if you will give your address as well. Shipley: 2770 South Locust Grove. De Weerd: Thank you. Shipley: We have lived there through all of this massive subdivision doodads. Three dogs come in the property today and killed five kittens. I'm still experiencing a lot of distress from neighbors that don't give a darn about anything. And especially they don't Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 40 of 74 want somebody in their backyard. That's why the variance has been dealt with. But it was legal the other way, according to Anna and that department. But Carla has tried to be real nice and make the people happy. Another five foot wouldn't make any difference anyway. But the property is a certain size, that's it. We discussed a long time about how we could impact the community without impacting the schools and came up with the design. Old people pay taxes and they don't have kids that go to school. So, that park that's on the corner back there, you should remember about that, because when Hubble built that park, they built it for the neighborhood. I don't know what's happened in the meantime, but now that's -- that park's built on the Nine Mile Drain back there. Hubble built the sidewalk that they required along the ditch and, then, they put the fence in front of the sidewalk, so nobody can get on the sidewalk and that was for reasons -- the ditch company locked up the gate on my property, because they felt little kids could get down in that ditch. So, those kind of things should be addressed and maybe if they are going to put the sidewalk -- and a more connective sidewalk to the park that belongs to Hubble, then, I don't see any real point in that. That's about all I got to say. De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Shipley. The second person was the applicant Carla Williams. Third Eric Strolberg signed up against. Strolberg: My name is Eric Strolberg. I live at 1872 East Dworshak Drive in Sherbrooke Hollow Subdivision on the south side. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, here tonight to speak against the Windwalker Subdivision. I'm directly affected by this as my backyard will be five to ten feet, depending on how this is decided, from four duplexes. I have a hard time fathoming - looking at what's there how that 200 feet of pasture that I look at now will handle 24 homes. It's amazing to me. I have spoke to the other affected neighbors. We are opposed to this development plan. The ten foot variance was the only thing that was, I guess, allowed by the Planning and Zoning Commission for -- the plan itself may meet the requirements for the city, but this plan circumvents the requirements by turning the buildings sideways to avoid normal spacings and setbacks, which results in my property getting four dwellings versus one. Those regulations are set forth to protect me when I bought my property. I have normal five foot setbacks. Mine are greater than that in this area. And a normal backyard, I believe, is 15 feet. By turning them sideways and doing what they are doing, they have circumvented what I thought was here to protect me. I also get two-thirds more homes, more traffic, and more residents in a narrow, nonconforming street, which they say it now does meet that, but it's narrower than anything in the surrounding area. I, along with the neighbors, expected development on that property, we expected a like development in the area. If you look at the map, it's normal R-4 with single family dwellings. I'm not against development, but I am against this development plan. My other concern is if this is approved that there are no guarantees that this will be built and maintained as presented and that's partially with the drawings that they give is that guaranteed that's not what I'm going to get. The concerns that the CC&Rs would change after it's built are valid. I bought the house I bought based on the area and the CC&Rs that were in that area. I didn't buy it to change it and I didn't buy it to move into a high density housing area. So, that's my concerns. Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 41 of 74 De Weerd: Thank you. Any questions from Council? Donnell: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes, Mrs. Donnell. Donnell: Mr. Strolberg, could you point to -- could you point to where your house is, please? Strolberg: Do you have the other drawing? It's easier to see. Right there. Donnell: Thank you. De Weerd: Thank you. Canning: Madam Mayor, Councilmember Donnell, I believe he indicated this one right here. Donnell: Thank you. Madam Mayor, one more question. De Weerd: Yes. Donnell: Mr. Strolberg, you mentioned that you bought your house with the CC&Rs in place and you expected that that -- that they would be that. Strolberg: Yes. Donnell: So, have they changed? Strolberg: My subdivision has not. It will change the fence. Right now it's chain link around the -- the association owns on the pasture side, which would be developed, and we worked with the developer to -- they said that they would put in a vinyl fence and so that will change. Donnell: Otherwise, they have not changed? Strolberg: Otherwise, no. And I'm just addressing her comments that that was a concern we had that this development as proposed has strict requirements of how it will be maintained and a concern is if it gets built, a few years down the road, it's not working, it doesn't sell, the people aren't living there as they envisioned and now it becomes rental properties or something different, which those CC&Rs could be changed. So, I'm addressing what she brought up. Donnell: Okay. Thank you. Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 42 of 74 De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Is there any further testimony on this application? Okay. Williams: I just wanted to point out -- De Weerd: If you will just restate your name for the record. Williams: I'm sorry. Carla Williams. De Weerd: Thank you. Williams: On the density portion and talking about four units backing up to a particular home, if you look at the way we have designed the homes, they do have a low profile, even though they are nine and ten foot ceilings. And if you look at anyone of the properties along here, there is no houses backing up here, only one here. This particular property has two. But if you look at how it's laid out, it's not like there is three and four homes backing up to any individual property. Most of these properties only have one unit that is backing up to it. So, I wanted to point that out. De Weerd: Thank you. Do you have any final remarks? Williams: Well, we have worked really hard to meet all of the guidelines of Planning and Zoning. We have done as much as we can to try to accommodate the concerns of the homeowners. We have agreed to spend close to 55,000 dollars on a vinyl fence for privacy to help separate the subdivisions on both sides, both the Inglenook side, this entire -- this is a long parcel and for such a small subdivision, that's a huge commitment to make, to put in this vinyl fence on both sides all the way down. But, you know, if it helps to appease the neighbors and gives them some separation between their backyards and what we are trying to do. We are willing to do that. We have also listened to their concerns about the setback and submitted the variance. That's not something that we would really chose to do, we are only doing that for the neighbors to help try to separate those backyards -- and in this case our side yards to their backyard. And we have quite an extensive landscaping plan that's going to be going in this subdivision. So, we have done a lot of things to try to make it a very attractive community and be a plus to the entire section of subdivisions that are surrounding it. The fact that it's a long skinny parcel, it's been very difficulty to design something that's cost effective and makes the financial feasibility of it work with having this much road on five acres. We have been forced into that through the highway department. We were -- we had a plan that these were much smaller. I think it was like a 50 foot radius and the fire department wanted a little bigger turnaround, so we redesigned it for these hammerhead turnarounds and if you look at the percentage of roads that we have had to put in to try to meet all of the guidelines and try to make the project financially feasible, it's been a pretty interesting project to do all that and we think that we have done everything that we can to appease the neighbors and try to make this work for everybody. De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Council, any further information needed? Okay. Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 43 of 74 Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: Not hearing any further need, I move we close the public hearings on Items 11, 12 and 13. . Rountree: Second. De Weerd: Okay. Motion to close the public hearings on the Items 11 through 13. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. De Weerd: Okay. Any discussion? Do I have a motion? Rountree: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Rountree. Rountree: I move that we approve the annexation request for AZ 05-030, subject to staff comments, testimony presented this evening, and that includes approval of Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law. Donnell: Second. De Weerd: Okay. Motion to approve Item 11. Is there any discussion? Mr. Berg, will you call roll. Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Donnell, yea. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. De Weerd: Thank you. I believe we need to do the variance before the preliminary plat. Okay. I would consider a motion on Item 13. Rountree: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Rountree. Rountree: I move that we approve the variance 05-018 for Item No. 13. Reasons for the variance as stated by planning staff, the difficulty of developing a rather narrow lot and the ability to create an in-fill and minimize the amount of access on an arterial, creation of some road network within subdivisions. Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 44 of 74 Donnell: Second. De Weerd: Okay. Motion is to approve Item 13. Is there anything further discussion? Okay. Mr. Berg. Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Donnell, yea. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. De Weerd: Item 12. Mr. Rountree. Rountree: I'll do it. Madam Mayor, I move that we approve Item No. 12, preliminary plat for 05-030, subject to staff comments, testimony presented this evening, and Findings of Facts. Bird: Second. De Weerd: Okay. Motion is to approve Item No. 12. Wardle: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Wardle. Wardle: Just a point of clarification. Anna, is the commitment from the developer to put vinyl fencing within the preliminary plat? Canning: I believe it is. I just put the file away. I can get it out, but I'm pretty sure it is. Wardle: Okay. Thank you. Rountree: Part of the Planning and Zoning conditions, as I recall. Canning: Yeah. De Weerd: Okay. Anything further? Okay. Mr. Berg. Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Donnell, yea. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. De Weerd: I must say for an in-fill project that we appreciate that you met with the neighbors and certainly the lack of a large number in in-fill projects is quite unheard of. Appreciate your reaching out, trying to address all of the issues that the neighboring community has. This is an awkward position -- or an awkward piece of property and the two connections and I appreciate the testimony we received tonight, but it is also nice to see a design that is not something that is going to devalue the surrounding properties. Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 45 of 74 Mr. Shipley, I appreciate that you held out for the appropriate -- and I guess with the Energy Star development that you're proposing, it is going to be a quality that is certainly going to compliment the other neighborhoods and certainly not take away from it. So, I appreciate you all being here tonight. And, again, you know, we appreciate the developers who really attempt to address all of the issues and usually the best gauge is either a full room or not, so -- Canning: Madam Mayor, if I could add. I can't tell you how many site layouts I have seen of this and the former planning director came up to me just before she left and she goes that's the Shipley property, isn't it. This has been a difficult site for many years to design and credit to Mr. Shipley for hanging in there and waiting for somebody that could do what he felt was right for the city and meet his needs as well, so - Item 14: Public Hearing: AZ 05-028 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 2.06 acres from RUT to R-40 zone for Arnke Subdivision by Michael Amke - 2070 West Pine Avenue: Item 15: Public Hearing: PP 05-028 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 18 building lots and 3 common lots on 2.06 acres in a proposed R-40 zone for Arnke Subdivision by Michael Amke - 2070 West Pine Avenue: Item 16: Public Hearing: CUP 05-037 Request for Conditional Use Permit for 18 townhouses in a proposed R-40 zone for Arnke Subdivision by Michael Arnke - 2070 West Pine Avenue: De Weerd: Unfortunately, part of it is you won't always please everyone. So, appreciate you coming in. Thank you. Items 14, 15 and 16 are public hearings AZ 05- 028, PP 05-028, and CUP 05-037. I will open these three public hearings with staff comments. Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this the Amke project. It's located on the north side of Pine, just right next to the high school, and you may remember that the Meridian High School just recently annexed a small portion immediately north of the subject site and they will be coming in with annexation of this property, too. So, that leaves just two remaining properties. It's somewhat of an in-fill development, even though it's sitting in the middle of unincorporated Ada County ground at the moment, but it is an unusual site. The LDS cemetery is -- LDS cemetery. Seminary. The LDS seminary is to the east. Okay. You can see some of the structures out there currently. This is the proposed site plan and I need to explain this a little bit. What the applicant is proposing is 18 building lots and three common lots on two acres in a proposed R-40. The request for the Conditional Use Permit is for 18 townhouses and how these townhouses work are in sets of three. So, there is a townhouse here of three. Three here. Three here. Three here. Three here. And three here. So, there is a common access drive and I would imagine under the new UDC provisions that the fire chief will ask this to be a private street, so it will get a name and will extend out. Right now it Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 46 of 74 shows that it's stopped, then, before it gets to the eastern property boundary, but one of the conditions of approval is that it actually extend out. You can see it a little bit better on this site plan, where you can see the massing of the townhouses. This would come all the way -- this private drive or public street will come all the way to the LDS seminary parking lot. These are the elevations. So, the front of the houses would face Pine and, then, they would face the school grounds immediately to the north. So, this would be facing Pine. This would be the view of the -- from the internal private street or service drive as it's shown now. And that's the front -- another front elevation or that's a side elevation. Perhaps the applicant may need to explain those elevations. The gross density of this project is 8.7 dwelling units per acre. It is shown as high density on the Comprehensive Plan, as is all the vacant land surrounding it is shown as high density as well around the school properties. I have shown the elevations. There is a requirement for a development agreement that the elevations would be -- comply with those that are presented to you tonight -- or are being presented to you tonight. The Planning and Zoning Commission has recommended approval. They did modify a couple of staff's initial comments and that was that they did want this access drive to not just extend to the end of these lots, but to actually provide a cross-access agreement with the LDS seminary. They also -- the applicant discussed with the Planning and Zoning Commission some opportunities for a private gate. The Planning and Zoning Commission did recommend approval of that. It says the request for the installation of a security gate at the entrance of the service drive from East Pine Avenue is approved and the applicant shall work with the Planning and Zoning staff to provide an acceptable escape route for vehicles that do not have access to the development. Regarding outstanding issues, staff is still not in support of having a private gate. Just in general staff does not support gating residential developments. The applicant in his testimony, if you could detail how that gate would be designed to minimize interference with traffic on East Pine. I think that that's important. And they should also address stacking capacity and the escape route as noted in the conditions of approval. With that, I will answer any questions that Council may have at this time. De Weerd: Council, any questions for staff? Okay. Bird: I have none, Mayor. De Weerd: Okay. Nickel: Good evening, Madam Mayor. Shawn Nickel. 52 North 2nd Street in Eagle. Madam Mayor and Council, just because of the lateness of the evening, I'm going to go -- I'm going to be very brief. I think we got all the issues resolved. But the one outstanding issue was with staff and that gate and my developer has withdrawn that request for the gate. And that's the reason we haven't worked that out with staff. We felt that it would butcher the property too much by providing stacking and areas for getting in and out of there, so we kind of dropped that. And the other -- just to clarify something that staff said, the units will actually face inward and not outwards towards the school and Pine. It's inward towards the courtyard. I have a little color picture here of kind of how that entrance is going to look and you can kind of see those units back Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 47 of 74 within there. I think it's going to be a very unique type of development to the City of Meridian. This is a new developer builder in town. He's got some great ideas on how -- the look of this is on the packet that I passed out will kind of give you some colored elevations and so you can look at. The emergency access -- it's an emergency access connection to the LDS seminary -- not cemetery. And that has been worked out with the LDS seminary as far as a cross-access agreement for that and it will now be a condition of approval. With that, I will stand for any questions you have at this time. De Weerd: Counsel, any questions? Bird: I have one, Mayor. Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I'm a little concerned -- I haven't seen these elevations.. If they are different from these, we have tied the development agreement to the elevations that are in our file and so staff may need some clarification on the record as to which way those orient and the ones that we have got in the presentation, if they are the same, and which way they are oriented. Nickel: Madam Mayor, to address staff, these are the same elevations that were originally submitted and in the packet. So, nothing has changed from the original request. Canning: Okay. So, regarding the elevation with the sliding glass doors, is this facing -- I'm sorry, Madam Mayor, I shouldn't be talking to the applicant. It's your hearing. I apologize. De Weerd: That's all right. It saves me from -- Donnell: It says rear. Nickel: Madam Mayor, Council, and staff, just to clarify, that is a rear elevation that would face Pine Street with sliding glass doors. Canning: Okay. This is the interior with the garages; correct? Nickel: That is correct. Canning: And, then, what is this of? Nickel: That is also a rear elevation that will be facing Pine Street. A different elevation. Canning: Okay. Nickel: I hope that clarifies -- Canning: So, instead of a window on these, you have a french -- a pop out. Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 48 of 74 Nickel: That is correct. Canning: Got it. De Weerd: Okay. Council, any questions for the applicant? Bird: I have none. De Weerd: Okay. Rountree: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Rountree. Rountree: I don't have any information. I suppose I do somewhere in the application about materials, design details. We asked the question of a person who is experienced in in-fill and multi-unit residential on how to get quality residential in these kinds of developments and their response was don't let people practice on you. Correct? So, my concern is that we see a lot of black and white elevations and when they go up, the same shingle color, the same vinyl siding, the same garage door color, and you have yet another Army barracks facility. I'm not inclined to be real favorable to that anymore. But I'm only one vote. So, I guess what I'm asking is what kinds of design details, amenities, obviously, the square footages that you're talking about are upscale and I don't mean upscale in terms of aloofness, but they are bigger than what we have been seeing. And that's good. So, can you speak to me as to design details and the use of materials? I see brick -- Nickel: Yes. Mr. -- Councilmember and Madam Mayor, the sizes are -- there is three different sizes of the units, 15, 17 and 2,000 square feet. As far as the building material, I'm holding an elevation here that shows a combination of brick with wood siding and some different type of window patterns. I think this is going to be -- and I understand what you're commenting on with the type of construction that has been seen in the past and I believe this is a higher end, quality building or structure that's not going to take on that boxy, drab, vinyl look to it. If you need any further definition, I would be more than happy to get the builder up and he can probably explain more detail of these units. Rountree: Thank you. Madam Mayor, follow-up with Annie -- Anna. Canning: I have got my gun. Rountree: Shoot me. It's been a long day. I got up at 4:00 o'clock your time to get here, so -- are the CC&Rs addressing the exterior of the buildings in terms of -- is it common area? Will it be maintained by a homeowners association? How is it going to be taken care of? Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 49 of 74 Canning: I'd have to read through the CC&Rs. The applicant can address that and, then, I verified it with what I can find in the CC&Rs. Nickel: That is correct, Madam Mayor and Councilmember Rountree. The common areas will all be maintained by a homeowners association. I'm holding in front of me a rendering of the landscape plan and the building -- an overview of the buildings. Rountree: Thank you. Nickel: And, again, I would be more than happy to have the builder come up and address any further construction questions you may have. Canning: Madam Mayor, I'd also, for Mr. Rountree, like to point out this is a Conditional Use Permit, so you are free to add conditions of approval regarding whatever you would like that might be enforceable that staff -- Rountree: Sure. De Weerd: Yes, sir. Please state your name and address for the record. Arnke: Good evening. My name is Michael Arnke. I'm the owner at 3070 West Pine. And with regards to the type of construction that will be conducted on this particular project, I only build class A projects. This will all be done out of architectural fiberglass shingle roofs. All of them will match. It will be done on a Hardy plank siding. I don't use vinyl or masonite. You will have -- I'm spending a lot of money to achieve that window design, because it's different and that's typically what -- you know, I always try to find something that's unique that's not being done on every corner. And we are doing brick in the rear yard. I don't know when you have ever seen that on any house in this town and -- because I have a strong feeling that when people are out in their backyards, that the back of the house should look as elegant as the front. And, basically, the -- it will be all low E windows on the south and the western exposures. It will be a 92 percent efficient heating unit, with a 13 Seer air conditioner, which is probably one of the highest standards in the valley. Raised foundation. Not slab. I'm spending my budget of between 78 and 85 thousand dollars in landscape, which on a square foot basis is about double that of the average residential unit in Eagle. I think it will be a project when we are done that you will be quite proud of. I have recently finished over 1 ,600 apartment buildings across the United States, particularly in the southwest. They are typically high end class A units. We just feel that if we build that type of product, that's the people that we command and I have had very good success with that. And I want to build another project in here and stand before you and stand tall. Rountree: Very good. Thank you. De Weerd: Well, I did notice that you had some military experience. I was just out at Mountain Home Air Force Base and they have a new builder in there, too. I was quite impressed with the multi-family housing they were putting up in that they had the garage Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 50 of 74 on the sides, as well as in the front, to really breakup that front garage look and I would invite you all out to Mountain Home Air Force Base to see, actually, something we'd like to see in our community. Rountree: So, are you and the base commander working out some kind of a promotional deal? De Weerd: If I have to. You bet. But, you know, this is a different product than what we have been seeing. I still -- the garage look, I'm glad your street appeal is what it is. Arnke: Well, that's important, because that's the window to the community and that's the way it should be. The fence -- actually, the property will be protected with the typical mound application. Our application -- our landscape application is going to be similar to Two Rivers. However, not as dense, because in five years I don't want to be pulling trees out. But it will be every bit as -- I think as beautiful. We will use a lot of -- a lot of color, with a lot of good specimens. And, like I said, my budget is probably -- I have a -- I think I have a pretty good budget landscapewise of between 78 and 80 thousand dollars, given the fact that we are only doing a half acre total. So, that's quite extensive. And the -- all of the grounds will be maintained by the landscape association, as well as the units. So, typically, if you have someone who wasn't quite as tidy as the person next to him, at least it will be confined indoors and not outdoors. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: I want to compliment him. I think these units are probably more appealing than about 90 percent of the single family units that are being built in supposedly high end subdivisions. I compliment the design and I think you have done a fantastic job and I think it will look very nice in the location out there. Arnke: Thank you. De Weerd: We appreciate you're not putting up boxes. Arnke: I couldn't do that. Canning: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes. Canning: To address Councilmember Rountree's -- just to verify, the CC&Rs -- they are drafted CC&Rs. They don't appear to be written specifically for this project, but, usually, that comes a little later. But they do address brick, stone, stucco, on the front exposure and that you need to have one of those. Encourages bay windows. Broken roof lines. Gable hip roofs. And, again, even within that they encourage brick, stone or stucco for Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 51 of 74 the full height of those columns. It does talk about colors. So, there does appear to be an emphasis on the exterior appearance. Rountree: Thank you, Anna. De Weerd: This is a Public Hearing. Is there any further testimony? I believe I have someone who has also signed up. Paul Geile. Geile: My name is Paul Geile. I live at 4717 Willow Lane in Boise. My father owns the property immediately to the west adjacent to this property. I also would like to compliment the developer for just having a project that isn't going to be any trouble. We have had virtually no issues with this project going in next to us. I had two issues that I wanted to get clarified tonight. Can we go to the street map picture? Canning: I'm sorry, I was discussing candy stores with -- De Weerd: Can we go to the street map. There you go. Canning: Is this the one you wanted, sir? Geile: No, the closer one with the black and white -- that one. Canning: That one? Geile: The street heading to the west is heading towards my father's property and they could have clarified this for me, but I just didn't think of it. That's the end of a private drive, that's not a stub street of any kind that can go into that property to the west; is that right? Canning: Madam Mayor, shall I answer? De Weerd: Yes, please. Canning: That is just a private drive. It's not a public street that would be -- have to be extended. There might be an opportunity if you wanted to, but it doesn't have to be. Geile: Okay. And that was my assumption, just didn't look that way on that -- on that picture, but maybe I'm -- I was just concerned. The other issue is a very simple one, is the nature and height of the common fence between this property and the property adjacent west. And other than that, I have no concerns at all. Thank you. De Weerd: I believe in the staff report you probably have a six foot perimeter fence? Canning: I will double-check. De Weerd: We will let the applicant answer. Is there any further testimony? Okay. Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 52 of 74 Nickel: Madam Mayor and Council, again, Shawn Nickel. I do appreciate working with the neighbor. We had a neighborhood meeting and he came out and we are going to be working with them on drainage and irrigation issues with our subdivision and their farm. That will be a six foot high fence. That is a -- more of a service -- a private drive, so it will not be stubbed to the west boundary. It's a private drive maintained by the homeowners association. And, then, I just want to make one I guess final comment. I think the word is out from -- in terms of the city of -- not only the City of Meridian, but also the city of Boise, their desire to kind pep up these multi-family projects and so I have been encouraging a lot of my developers to kind of be a little intensive as to what we bring forward with you and, again, to address your comment, I think you are going to start seeing some better designs, multi-family whether it's four-plexes or these townhouse units and any input you give I take right back to my developers. We want to make sure that we are not putting out in the community something that we are all later going to be a little embarrassed to drive by. So, I'll just kind of leave you with that. Donnell: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mrs. Donnell. Donnell: Mr. Nickel, what is the type of fence? I think that was one of the questions. Nickel: I believe it's cedar. Vinyl. I apologize. A vinyl fence. Donnell: Vinyl. All right. Canning: Madam Mayor, that's currently not a commitment that's on the landscape plan, so the Council may want to consider adding that as a condition of approval for the -- for the Conditional Use Permit. De Weerd: At least clarifying that. Okay. Thank you. Nickel: Thank you for your time. De Weerd: And, again, thank you for a different project and certainly something we are not used to seeing. Mr. Wardle. Wardle: Madam Mayor, just by way of comment and just by noticing, this is a high density residential development and we have struggled with some of these in the past in the Old Town area. I would just like to point out in the sense that some of the discussions we have had is these do have individual garage or parking units for the residents and so it certainly can be done and has been done effectively in this application. I would expect to see some more in the future. De Weerd: But, again, I would suggest that -- the ones that I saw this weekend -- I mean I was a little stunned to see something that nice on an Air Force base, but it Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 53 of 74 wasn't your typical development or high density and it had a lot of the bump outs that you see with this proposal and interest that made them more appealing. So, yeah, I was stunned. Bird: It's just taxpayers dollars. Donnell: Taxpayer dollars at work. De Weerd: It doesn't matter. I found a development I actually like, you know. I thought that was amazing. Canning: I'm taking pictures. De Weerd: If I had a camera I would have taken them. Canning: I'll go out. De Weerd: Anna, did you have anything further? Canning: Madam Mayor, I just wanted to -- Mr. Wardle pointed out a good point in that these do have two car garages and most of them -- all but the six eastern most lots, actually, have a guest parking area that can support two other vehicles. So, it's not only the enclosed two cars, it's another two cars behind it. And these units back here won't be able to do that, but they do have the enclosed two car garage. De Weerd: Thank you, Anna. Okay. Council? Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: We hear no more discussion, I move that we close Items 14, 15 and 16 public hearings. Rountree: Second. De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved to close the public hearings. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 54 of 74 Bird: I move we approve AZ 05-028 and include the Findings with the -- incorporating comment of staff and applicant and public testimony. Rountree: Second. De Weerd: Okay. The motion is to approve Item 14. If there is no further discussion, Mr. Berg, will you call roll. Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Donnell, yea. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. De Weerd: Thank you. Item 15. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: I move that we approve PP 05-028, the preliminary plat for Arnke Subdivision, and to incorporate -- and pass the Findings, incorporate staff, applicant, and public testimony. Donnell: Second. De Weerd: Okay. The motion is to approve Item 15. I believe it's Arnke; right? Mr. Berg. Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Donnell, yea. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. De Weerd: Okay. Item 16. Mr. Bird. Bird: Madam Mayor, I move that we approve CUP 05-037 and within the conditional use I believe a six foot vinyl fence on the exterior and to continue with the brick in the back of the building, as stated by the construction company, and to include the Findings and also include all staff, applicant, and public testimony. Rountree: Second. De Weerd: Thank you. The motion is to approve Item 16. If there is no further discussion, Mr. Berg. Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Donnell, yea. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 55 of 74 Item 17: Item 18: Item 19: Public Hearing: AZ 05-016 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 28.65 acres from RUT to R-15 and L-O zones for Silver Oaks Subdivision by Charter Builders, Inc. - north of West Franklin Road and west of North Ten Mile Road: Public Hearing: CUP 05-024 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a Planned Development for multi-family 1 clubhouse 1 office 1 daycare development with no minimum street frontage and multiple buildings on a single lot on 28.65 acres in proposed R-15 and L-O zones for Silver Oaks Subdivision by Charter Builders, Inc. - north of West Franklin Road and west of North Ten Mile Road: Public Hearing: PP 05-023 Request for Preliminary Plat approval for 1 multi-family residential building lot and 1 commercial office lot on 28.6 acres in proposed R-15 & L-O zones for Silver Oaks Subdivision by Conger Management Group - west of Ten Mile Road and north of West Franklin Road: De Weerd: Thank you. Items 17,18 and 19, Public Hearing AZ 05-016, CUP 05-024, PP 05-023. I will open these three public hearings with staff comments. Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is before you on reconsideration, so staff will not do a lengthy review of the application thus far. I think this is an opportunity for the applicant to explain what they have changed that's before you tonight. They have removed -- De Weerd: Anna, we will let the-- Canning: Thank you. De Weerd: Thank you. If you will, please, state your name and address for the record. McKinnon: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Dave McKinnon, 735 South Crosstimber. It's good to be in front of you again tonight. Councilman Rountree, it may be a surprise we are back in front of you. We are here at the reconsideration, so I won't go into a great deal of detail at this time, but in the reconsideration request we mentioned that there were a few projects that we know that you didn't like, we were trying to avoid doing those projects and we have tried to do a project that was a little bit different. It is a four-plex project and it's a rather big four-plex project. We have done some rather interesting things. To start off with an outline of the changes we made and, then, just an overview of the project. We basically took out seven buildings, 28 units. We are down to 280 units now in this project. The open space now for the entire project is about 30 percent of this project is in open space. We added open space at the entrance here and the entrance at this location. We took out all the buildings that fronted onto the public street, so there is no access taken off of the public street for any Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 56 of 74 houses or any four-plexes in this area. We took out another unit in this location. Those are the seven units that we took out. So, it was interesting the amount of open space. And we have created a project that feels more a resort type development. Anna, can you go forward to another slide of the elevations. We have got three different elevations that are before you. We didn't spend a whole lot of time with these at the original hearing, but these are stucco with composition shingles. The major differences are in the treatments of the windows. These are 1,030 square feet and, basically, 1,100 square foot units within this building. There are two bedroom and three bedroom units. They have decks on the front and in the back. Different colors. Different window treatments. There is some with some smaller transom windows, arched windows. And a little bit of different window treatment on these units. So, they are a different type of unit, more of a resort type of feel. If you can go back to the overall. As mentioned, we did have somebody come in and talk to you guys about quality -- quality multi-family. There was about two or three things that I took away from that after talking with your staff and those who were in attendance, that one of the first things they mentioned was the design. Design is very important in your multi-family projects. We came into this trying to design something a little bit different, something with some open space and a four-plex. We tried to include a clubhouse and a separate fitness room. In addition to that there is a pool and a playground area and a ball court area and that's approximately 50,000 square feet. Centrally located within the project. Exterior to that -- to the central project, open space over and acre and a half in this location and large open spaces throughout and interior to the project. A pathway system that connects everybody to be able to get to the pool area and the clubhouse area. We have connected this project through to the west. Design is very important. This is very limited of what we can do with this piece of property. We only have 150 feet of frontage on Franklin. In designing this project we knew we would have to come up with a couple of different access points in order to meet fire requirements and to satisfy the requirements and need for the police department. This access is shared with the church. And Larry Woodard is here from the Cherry Lane Christian Church, the project you recently approved. And we are working with them to provide a common drive, a common road, actually, a common public road to this point, then, a private drive back to here to be split between the two properties, the church having access that goes all the way over the Ten Mile. The church has agreed to provide a cross-access for us on this project. It also provides for a cross-access throughout to get to Franklin. In addition to that, Avest Mini Storage has an emergency vehicle access located at this point, coming back through the Avest Mini Storage. When Avest was improved it was a requirement from the city to provide that access onto this piece of property. We are taking that through. So, there is actually one access here, a future access off of the stub street to the west, and, then, another access out to -- out to Linder -- excuse me -- to Ten Mile through Avest Mini Storage. I talked with Captain Musser and I have also talked with your fire department. Those accesses do meet the requirements for the fire and the police department. I talked with a couple of different commercial real estate brokers in town, talking about some of the comments that were made at the previous meeting about this property maybe being industrial in nature. There are some limiting factors to that. First was that there is all residential on the north side. Castlebrook Subdivision on the north. This project has already been approved for a medium density single family residential development. It Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 57 of 74 would limit what type of uses would be allowed to the south of this and any type that would create a large amount of noise. Other types of uses that would typically require a use of a rail spur would not make a great deal of sense to these people based on just the proximity to the residential uses. In addition to that, there is a church right next door to this and the idea of putting in some higher use -- heavy intense uses right next to a church does not seem to make sense to the commercial builders in talking to them about this. So, we talked a little bit more with them. They said this, actually, seemed to be the right location for this, because of what's happening with the Ten Mile interchange and we know there is going to be a lot of commercial development that happens with the Ten Mile Interchange. And this is going to put a lot of roof tops right next to that and be a lot of employment opportunities, possibly, for these people that live in this development to be able to have access to those stores for employment and to gain the daily needs that they have for living. So, we think that this is actually the appropriate use for this site. As we discussed at the previous hearing, the Comprehensive Plan indicates that this is the appropriate designation of high density residential. In taking out the seven units we have now reduced the density to 11.2 dwelling units per acre and so there is a small portion of the site that's not residential in nature, it's basically three and a half acres to the south. A day care use for those people that live in this area, they will have direct access to this day care. They don't need to take their kids elsewhere. And some office uses in the future. In talking with the church and with ACHD, there is a possibility in the near future that this would warrant a traffic signal at this location based on the amount of traffic the church will generate and this type of use would generate. It makes it very important to realize that these people to the west will have access to be able to get to that traffic light and that traffic light would be very appropriate at this location if traffic warrants are met. We tried to take your comments that you guys made at the last meeting. You talked to us about density, that there was an awful lot of units in this location. We reduced that by 28. Tried to soften it by putting that open space at the front of the project, so that when you drive into this project you actually don't see the back or sides of houses, you actually see a nice well maintained landscape area. This property will be maintained and managed by a single entity. You received the package that I dropped by the city clerk's office. There is an accredited property management group that will handle all the management for this. This will not be all single ownership with people receiving checks for rent from separate people. It will all be maintained by one person and I mentioned how important that is. So, this will be maintained and managed by one organization. You should have received a package from them. I know that there was some opposition at that time, but we believe that the changes that we have made helped to soften this project and we decreased the density. We have tried to do something different and we hope that you don't judge this project by some of the poorer projects that have been presented to you in the past that were four-plex projects. Please don't judge us by the other projects that we don't believe were up to the standard that we have presented to you. We'd ask for your approval tonight and I'd stand for any questions. De Weerd: Council, any questions? Rountree: I have none. Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 58 of 74 Bird: I have none. De Weerd: Okay. No. McKinnon: Thank you. De Weerd: Thank you. Is there anyone who would like to offer testimony on this application? If you will, please, state your name and address. Woodard: My name is Larry Woodard. I live at 1701 Almandan, north of Meridian. I'm one of the ministers of Cherry Lane Christian Church. Throughout the development of this plan we have worked cooperatively with these folks. Our road system and cross- access agreements we have worked out with them. We are pleased with what they have proposed. They bring us a congregation right next door to us. So, we think this is a good use of it and, really, I just came to say we support what they are proposing. Thank you. De Weerd: Thank you. I guess that's a good way to put it, Larry. Rountree: It's all about tithing. De Weerd: Okay. Any further testimony? Canning: Madam Mayor, I did want to just -- I feel the need to point out some differences between the UDC and the way things have happened currently, because I want to make sure that you know one thing and that's -- this is currently shown all in one lot. If the applicant wanted to do a condominium plat in the future, that would not come before you for approval, because it wouldn't be adding any new units. So, they would be able to do that, just -- so because this was shown as one ownership does not mean that it might necessarily stay in one ownership without getting your approval. So, I did want you to know that. De Weerd: Okay. Rountree: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Rountree. Rountree: If Anna would explain that one more time. Canning: Okay. It used to be that if somebody wanted to do a condominium plat, it would come before you just like any other condominium plat would. The new UDC allows that to just be a staff level approval, because there is no new development occurring, it's just a change in ownership. Usually, a change in ownership isn't Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 59 of 74 important. It seems to have been an important discussion as part of these four-plex complexes. Rountree: Good job. Thank you. De Weerd: Dave, do you have any kind of pictures of what a building of that size looks like all stucco? McKinnon: Anything with me? Alii have is these colored elevations that we have. De Weerd: I mean in real life. McKinnon: I don't have a photo of what this looks like in real life. This is what we have got. De Weerd: And it's just all stucco, there is no other type of accent or anything on it? McKinnon: Well, the architect is here tonight. He may be able to help me out with that. 'lIlet him answer that question. De Weerd: Thank you. If you will, please, state your name and address. Phillips: Yes. I'm Russ Phillips with Insight Architects, 2238 Broadway Avenue in Boise. De Weerd: Thank you. Phillips: What we have got proposed are three different elevations. As far as the detail is -- in the big picture, we are working with at least three different color combinations and, then, in the form of the buildings, the stucco -- we have chose that project, because it's low maintenance, it's a quality product that's recognized, used in resorts and other areas that are a little higher end. And, then, in the form of the buildings we have got -- we tried to illustrate with shadows that we have got shadow relief, so that they aren't flat facades, but we have got some changes in plane and some deep recesses and protrusions. We also have some floor plans. I don't know if staff has -- has those, but we have got some colored floor plans that illustrate that these buildings do undulate in and out quite a bit. So, we are really striving work with not just flat linear planes, but working with shadows and so forth. The detailing is stucco base as far as -- if we could blow those up somehow, but we have got -- for example, arches that protrude out and they will have, you know, a band that protrudes around that and, then, it's a deep inset window that's inset back roughly six inches. So, even around the windows we capture shadow lines. We also on some of the units -- one of the building types we have got a wrought iron -- like window boxes and a hint of a balcony in front of some of the windows, so that we give it some other character. And, then, landscaping is very important. Our landscape architect is working with a variety of plant materials, shade trees that you don't always see anymore, but shade trees, the mid level canopies Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 60 of 74 and ornamental trees. So, we are trying to integrate, you know, not just the buildings being a statement, but the landscaping and the open space, shadows, everything relating together. De Weerd: So, you show that's the back side of the units that show the balconies and -- Phillips: Those are -- well, we will have -- the balconies both on the front and back. De Weerd: Oh. Okay. Phillips: These are the front entries. Let's see if I have a little pointer here. But these -- for example, these recesses here, this is where the stairs go up and those recesses go back roughly 15 to 20 feet deep, for example. And, then, the -- like these areas right here, these protrude out roughly eight feet. I know a lot of apartments that we see in the valley are really flat or they may only protrude out a couple of feet. And, then, we have also worked with the overhangs, too, so that at least on the upper units and, then, we have balconies down here that we try and achieve some shading as far as energy consciousness and that also gives the buildings more character, too. So, we don't have minimum overhangs, but they are roughly 30 inches. De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Any questions, Council? Rountree: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Rountree. Rountree: I still have a great amount of concerns with the design of this particular development, but picture those buildings up there with eight or nine or ten cars in front of each one. A pickup with a camper and a boat and -- I mean I just struggle with the design. Donnell: Madam Mayor? Right now I'm struggling with that in my own subdivision. I think that we have CC&Rs that are supposed to prevent motor homes, cars, pickups, and boats being out on the street and yet they are and there is no enforcement against that. Mr. Architect -- I didn't catch your name. De Weerd: Mr. Architect. Bird: Russ Phillips. Phillips: Russ Phillips. Donnell: Oh. Mr. Phillips. How would you compare these units with the ones that are currently on -- off of Overland in front of Mountain View High School? Do you know which ones I'm talking about? Perhaps Dave, maybe, you can -- do these look like Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 61 of 74 them? Phillips: Unfortunately, I'm not familiar with those. Donnell: Don't they look a lot alike? Bird: Madam Mayor, I don't think they are, because I think these are stucco and those are -- those are basically just square -- a wood or vinyl siding apartments. I think these are -- these are much more upscale, I think. Donnell: Well, they look like -- excuse me. Madam Mayor, they look like it to me as well, but the drawings still look very similar to the ones that are off of Overland. So, perhaps it's just the drawings. Canning: Madam Mayor, perhaps I can help. I'm pretty sure that these have very few cutouts. So, these do have a cut out here and, then, a cutout for the stairwell. This is a cutout as well and, then, in the back it's a little easier to see that there is clearly a pop out in the back. And, then, that mayor may not be a cutout. I can't tell. But, then, there is a change here. So, just as far as the massing, I think that you have got on the -- go back to the -- you can see those -- those almost like columns coming out with the different roof structure on top of them, those will have a different appearance. Donnell: Thank you. Bird: But -- go ahead, Christine. Donnell: No. I just said thank you. That's all. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: And I have no business sitting up here designing for you, but I do have a question, Russ. What -- between stucco and brick, is there a real difference? Because I have been told pros and cons, you know, of how much more brick costs. Because I think you could dress those up a lot if there was some brick up the sides or something -- and I'm not designing for you by a long shot, but it just -- it's just an idea that that would break it up -- that would break a -- you know, a stucco building looks like a drive-up building to me and it needs to be broke up once in awhile and I -- but I don't know if it's feasible. I mean you guys are the ones running the numbers. I don't know. Phillips: Yeah. Councilman Bird, the -- roughly stucco runs eight bucks a square foot for a surface area. Brick is about 14 bucks a square foot. Gives you the different -- I would need to talk with the owner and perhaps he could, you know, shed some light on that, regarding using other materials. Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 62 of 74 Bird: You know, I do want to compliment you for coming back for what -- I wasn't one of the no votes, but you did go back and do some stuff, take out some density -- I'm not sure. But I think some difference at each -- you know, might make it more attractive, too, for people. That's all. Phillips: All right. Well, let me check with our plan -- Bird: I don't want to tell you what you have to do. Phillips: You know, in -- you know, we looked at it as far as in that one floor plan it shows, too, that sometimes we can shift those units, slide them, which even adds more relief, instead of just having a mirror image. Then, the three colors -- you know, adds another dimension to that and, then, plus the style. So, we have got six things going on. But I will confer with the client regarding your change of materials. De Weerd: Oh. And, Council, if you wouldn't mind, I would like to call like a five minute break -- real quick five minutes. Okay. Thank you. (Recess.) De Weerd: Okay. I will go ahead call this meeting back to order. Thank you. McKinnon: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Dave McKinnon. 735 South Crosstimber. I've had a chance to talk with the client and he's very agreeable to doing some sort of additional wainscoting with brick or cultured stone and we can do that across the front of those buildings. Absolutely. We would be willing to do that. We will make that commitment at this time. Also, Anna brought up a couple of great points about the CC&Rs. First and foremost is that there are CC&Rs for this project that would prohibit those people from bringing RVs and boats into this parking area. And secondary to that, just clarification with Anna that we have a management organization and whether or not these become individual ownerships in the future, there will still be one management agency for this and everybody with have to live with that basic HOA, homeowners association type of setup. So, in the future this would all be maintained exterior as one management group. So, it won't be individual owners taking care of their own individual properties, there will be a management group that will maintain the entire property. . De Weerd: So, you're saying that there is still an option for multiple owners of the buildings? McKinnon: Yes. But the exterior maintenance and the management of that in the entire common area will be handled by one agency. De Weerd: Okay. Council, any further questions? Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 63 of 74 Bird: No. I'm just trying to picture that. De Weerd: Dave, I guess, you know, some of the additional concerns were the fact that most of this is on private roads. Our police will not be going in there. What are your lighting and safety precautions that -- you know, and I guess Councilman Rountree brought up one fact is that when you park a bunch of cars up in front of those buildings, that it does limit visibility between the building and the cars. And what are some of the safety precautions and lighting and that sort of thing? McKinnon: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I did take the opportunity to talk with Chief Musser just a little bit before the meeting and we talked a little bit about this and these are the same problems you will see in every multi-family project. This isn't unique to this project alone. You will see vehicles parked in front of buildings, you will see that in almost every commercial application that you see as well. We will work with the city on lighting. Typically, the city tells you where you put your public lighting and we will work with the city for the public lighting. Even though this is a private street, we are happy to meet or exceed what the city asks us to do on a public street. More than happy to accommodate that for the lighting. In addition to that, I believe there is some lighting that will take place just for the parking area that's above and beyond what the city would require for a public street. As far as the comments from the police department patrolling in this area, you're going to see that with every type of apartment complex that you have and that is a concern and maybe Chief Musser would be better apt to help us work through that. We would be more than happy to work with Chief Musser on that and work on ways to do that. De Weerd: Another issue was circulation and you mentioned the cross-access with the -- with the church, which would not be a public road, but also in looking at getting your traffic out of just those two points of access, what about connecting over to the west? McKinnon: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, if I could ask staff really quick just go to the overall pan view of the entire area. Perfect. The church owns this whole piece of property right here. This is the entire portion. When the church property came through for annexation and for approval of their project, there was no requirement for a public street to connect all the way through, so we only can deal with the -- we can only deal with the public streets we are given. However, the church has graciously worked with us and allowed us to have cross-access and provide us access through their property all the way to Ten Mile. In addition to that, they have three access points on Franklin, one, two, three shared accesses. All of those would gain access if need be for emergency vehicles, police, fire, ambulance, to be able to come through and access at these locations. Further to that, Avest Mini Storage has their access to here. This property is the Gus Hackler piece. This is also designated as high density on the Comprehensive Plan. We have provided a cross-access at this point. And if you go back to the -- there we go. This is a cross-access here and we have agreed to bond for half the bridge across, which would provide access to the west property when the Hackler piece develops in the future. So, it would be another access point here. So, there is, basically, an access area point here, in addition to the access point Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 64 of 74 approximately here for the church, closer to Ten Mile and Franklin, again, on Ten Mile and, then, through Avest Mini Storage for emergency vehicle access. We do have some limitations. We don't have a public street to access on any additional location. We can't put a stub street where there is no stub that can be continued. But we have provided a stub street to the west. De Weerd: Any further questions, Council? Bird: I have none. De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. McKinnon: Thank you, Mayor and Council. De Weerd: Okay. Council? Donnell: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes, Mrs. Donnell. Donnell: I'd like to make a motion that we close the Public Hearing. Bird: Second. De Weerd: Motion to close the Public Hearing on 17, 18 and 19? Donnell: Yes. De Weerd: Okay. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Donnell: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mrs. Donnell. Donnell: I'm going to just make a statement before I make a motion and I believe that I voted for this in the affirmative before and when it wasn't passed and I think they have come back before the Council and have done everything that was a concern of ours. Perhaps maybe with the exception of the public roads and the church has been gracious enough to help them and certainly has been a good neighbor as well. Taking out the number of buildings I think improves the property. I think the elevation of the buildings looks like it would be a good development. I, too, agree with that -- that as Ten Mile overpass goes into effect that commercial development will be all around there and I think that we will need some access to some multi-family housing, which I think that we have not had in the past and I think that that demand is very real in this Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 65 of 74 community. And so with those comments, I'd like to make a motion that we approve Item No. 17, AZ 05-016, a request for annexation and zoning for Silver Oaks Subdivision. Nary: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Nary. Nary: Procedural point before you get a second on that motion. You have already -- you have already moved and approved a motion to deny. The denial is in your packets of information. If you want to rescind that, you will need to rescind your denial first. Donnell: Okay. Nary: And so -- and that motion to rescind needs to be made by the parties that voted in the affirmative for the denial. Donnell: Which I think was probably me? Nary: No, it would have been Mr. Rountree and Mr. Bird. Donnell: That's true. Nary: The motion was already approved and all you did in this reconsideration was give them an opportunity to present their project again pursuant to the conditions you had laid out in that denial. But the denial still exists. So, you will have to rescind that if the Council wants to do that, so -- Bird: Madam Mayor? Canning: First -- I'm sorry. Further clarification from staff. Actually, if you move to approve, you will need new Findings and if you could give staff two weeks, if that's the way you're heading. Thank you. De Weerd: Okay. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: I -- to have this voted on by the whole thing and I, too, think that the applicants have come back with a -- in my estimation a better project. So, I would move that we rescind the denial of AZ 05-016 for Silver Oaks Subdivision. Donnell: Second. Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 66 of 74 De Weerd: Okay. We have a motion to approve-- Donnell: To rescind. De Weerd: Or to approve rescinding. Rountree: Discussion. De Weerd: Mr. Rountree. Rountree: I can agree with the comments made about changes being made. I still have concerns about the design. My concerns before were not necessarily about the density. If it's high density it could be denser. My concerns are about form, fit, and feel. This development reminds me of a monopoly board. There is no internal circulation to speak of. The fire and -- or a policeman or a firefighter having to go on a call in this particular area, I wouldn't without backup or two or three, particularly if there was a heated situation that arose. It relies entirely on access agreements to provide access to it. I would not -- I will not be voting to reverse the previous decision. De Weerd: Council, I guess I'll give my two cents worth and I get a sense that I won't be voting. But I guess over the last three weeks I have an opportunity to participate in a number of discussions on integration of land use and transportation and the comments that Counci.lmember Rountree just talked about in form, fit and feel, had a lot to do with those transportation land use discussions. Circulation in this kind of area in particular, when it's going to be the type of zoning that we have in the surrounding area and with the opportunity that Council has allowed in funding a planning process for this area, which is absolutely essential to the arterial and how we are going to move traffic, even once you get them out to the arterial, is really essential. We, in these discussions, have seen a lot of bad decisions and a lot of those were because opportunities were lost in not being able to plan with the whole picture. We have that opportunity right now. And that was my concern last time, in addition to a transition from the rail corridor and the ability to use freight, I did come from a meeting as well earlier in talking about the market conditions and that there is needed industrial areas. So, I guess it all depends on who you talk to. So, I guess it is a more desirable project in the design and I really didn't have an issue with the number of units. My issues seemed to be more similar to Councilman Rountree's and the circulation of that whole area and how you're going to connect all the cars that you are putting in there and get them out of there. Just imagine if something serious happened, where on earth are those car going to go? So, is there any further discussion? Okay. Mr. Berg, will you call roll. Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, nay; Wardle, yea; Donnell, yea. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE NAY. De Weerd: Okay. Now we-- Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 67 of 74 Bird: Now, Christine, you can make your motion. Donnell: Madam Mayor, I'd like to make a motion that we approve Item -- I have got to find my place on my agenda here. Item No. 17, AZ 05-016, a request for annexation and zoning for Silver Oaks Subdivision and incorporating all -- do I get to say that at this time? Not for annexation? Okay. End of motion. Wardle: Second. De Weerd: Okay. Motion to approve Item 17. If there is no further discussion, Mr. Berg. Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, nay; Wardle, yea; Donnell, yea. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE NAY. Berg: I'll just comment that the Findings will be prepared in two weeks. De Weerd: Thank you. For the record. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: I move that we rescind the denial of CUP 05-024. Donnell: Second. Nary: I think it was all one -- Bird: It was all one? We don't have to do that? Nary: It was all one document, so you -- Bird: That's right. Once we denied that access -- good. You can go ahead, Christine. Donnell: Mr. Wardle is going to -- Wardle: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: It's great to see a team effort on this. Mr. Wardle. Wardle: I move that we approve Item 18, CUP 05-024, Conditional Use Permit for Silver Oaks Subdivision, incorporate all staff and applicant comments, specifically referencing comments from the applicant in regard to construction material, building type, change in architectural design to indicate some sort of Wainscot on the exterior of Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 68 of 74 the buildings, additional modulation, within the -- on the structures. And to bring those Findings back for approval. Donnell: Second. De Weerd: Okay. The motion is to approve Item 18. If there is no further discussion, Mr. Berg. Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, nay; Wardle, yea; Donnell, yea. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE NAY. De Weerd: Okay. Item 19. Wardle: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Wardle. Whose turn? Wardle: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Wardle. Wardle: I move that we approve Item No.1 9, PP 05-023 and to incorporate all staff and applicant comments and to bring the Findings back. Donnell: Second. De Weerd: Motion to approve Item 19. If there is no discussion, Mr. Berg. Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, nay; Wardle, yea; Donnell, yea. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE NAY. Item 20: Amendment to Ordinance No. 05-1164: AZ 05-003 Request for an Annexation and Zoning of 76.72 acres to a R-3 zone for Kinasbridae Subdivision by Vision First, LLC - 4070 South Eagle Road: De Weerd: Thank you. Item 20 is amendment to Ordinance No. 05-1164. Canning: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes. Canning: Before the -- I need to explain something about this. This annexation and zoning was originally -- we got the wrong legal description, so we are having to redo it. The first time we did it we did it on three. There is no R-3 district anymore. We would Meridian City Council September 20. 2005 Page 69 of 74 ask that the ordinance could just be amended by hand and read R-2, instead of R-3, to be consistent with the new UDC and you mayor may not recall, but the applicant was advised that this would happen and was in agreement with this, so -- De Weerd: Okay. Do you have anything further to add, Mr. Nary? Nary: Madam Mayor, as Mrs. Canning stated, what happened is that the legal description was incorrect. The designation of the property to be consistent with the current zoning, since we are annexing it now, you can amend it on the record to R-2. We are going to have to notify the assessor that all of our R-3 districts, the few that we do have, are going to be converted to R-2. That's just a cleanup way to do that, but this one sits in front of you now. And that's all that was puzzling. It's simply amending it by motion to reflect R-2 zoning instead of R-3. De Weerd: Okay. Council, do I have a motion? . Rountree: Madam Mayor? De Weerd. Mr. Rountree. Rountree: I move that we approve item No. 20, amending the -- and allow staff to write in the amendment to the R-3 to R-2. Donnell: Second. Bird: Second. De Weerd: I have a motion and two seconds. Bird: Discussion. De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: Has the developer been notified of this, so everybody knows and they are -- if they started there in R-2 -- under R-2 deals? Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, they have designed -- ever since they brought this one back they have designed it to meet the eventual R-2 standards. Nary: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Nary. Nary: Additionally, there was the discussion -- part of the discussion on this particular project when it was approved and they did provide a letter indicating their consent to rezoning it to be R-2. Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 70 of 74 De Weerd: Okay. Bird: But follow up, Madam Mayor. De Weerd: Uh-huh. Bird: We stated -- I think Mr. Nary stated that we would be -- notify everybody else that was under R-3 -- or that was in the motion? Has everybody that is in R-3 now have been notified that they would be R-2? Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, when we notified of the UDC changes, every time we notified that, we notified all of the property owners that have R- 3 and TE zoning and -- that their zones would no longer exist and that we would be changing them. Nary: Okay. Thank you very much. Rountree: All four of them. De Weerd: All one of them. Okay. Mr. Berg, will you call roll, before it gets totally out of hand. Berg: Madam Mayor, I'm just inquiring if I need to leave the title -- did the title change? Just the exhibit changed? Nary: Just the exhibits changed, Mr. Berg. Berg: Okay. On that grounds, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, amended ordinance No. 05-1164, roll call vote. Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Donnell, yea. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 21: Ordinance No. 05-1183 : Request for Annexation and Zoning of 2.74 acres to a R-4 zone for The Enclave Subdivision by The Enclave, LLC - 2620 South Locust Grove Road: Item 22: Ordinance No. 05-1184 : Repealing and Reenacting Title 2, Chapter 4, Section 1 of the Meridian City Code Regarding the Membership, Organization, and Rules of the Meridian City Planning and Zoning Commission: De Weerd: Item 21 and 22 are ordinances No. 05-1183 and 05-1184. Mr. Berg, will you, please, read these two by title only. Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 71 of 74 Berg: Madam Mayor, there may be some explanation for the second request for the ordinance, if the city attorney wants to explain that to everyone. De Weerd: Okay. Before the reading we will ask for an explanation on Item 22. Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Item 22 is a good example of how the best laid plans can sometime go awry. In the repeal and the reenactment of Title 11 of our Meridian City Code to the new Uniform Development Code, there was a section in that code that was the enabling ordinance for the Planning and Zoning Commission. There is also in Title 2 titled Planning and Zoning Commission, but it doesn't contain any enabling language, it only designates when the meetings are held. When we repealed Title 11, the enabling ordinance went away and it wasn't replaced with Title 2. This ordinance, basically, is a clean up in that where it will now replace, in Title 2, the enabling ordinance that's required by state law if you're going to have a Planning and Zoning Commission, to be able to have such and what the designation -- or what the seats are and what the configuration is and how its constituted. This would not be that big of deal if we didn't have a meeting on Thursday with the Planning and Zoning Commission now that -- now they are unable to meet, because they will not be legally constituted until this ordinance is published next Monday. Next Tuesday we will be bringing back, with the Mayor's approval, reappointing all the members of the Planning and Zoning Commission, because they don't exist anymore. De Weerd: They can't meet on Thursday? Nary: They cannot meet on Thursday, because they don't exist anymore. So, this ordinance will reinstitute the Planning and Zoning Commission -- we will reappoint the members to their continuing terms and everything else will go on as planned. But, they will have to reset this week's meeting on the Comprehensive Plan amendment to another date because of that. Rountree: It seems to me at a minimum we should have gotten a thank you letter from them. Nary: If it was some other city, it would be almost funny. But these things happen. We had a very comprehensive ordinance that encompassed lots of different things and this is just one slight thing that got overlooked. It was probably in the wrong section to begin with, which is the reason that it was probably overlooked, just because it belongs in the section on boards and commissions, not in the section on planning rules and regulations and duties and the like, so -- Wardle: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Wardle. Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 72 of 74 Wardle: Mr. Nary, so what I hear you saying on Item No. 22, if we approve this ordinance, then, this sitting Council can, in perpetuity, say that we actually created the current Planning and Zoning Commission for the City of Meridian. Nary: Councilman Wardle, that is correct. You can claim that if you wish by the enactment of this ordinance. Bird: We will give you all the credit, Councilman Wardle. Nary: Just maybe as an aside, if you choose not to enact this ordinance, then, you become the Planning and Zoning Commission, so -- Berg: Can they meet? Could they meet Thursday? Rountree: Yeah. We could meet Thursday. Nary: If you want to meet Thursday and be the Planning and Zoning Commission -- Bird: I don't. Nary: One thing in the alternative is in the emergency sections of the state code that allow you to enact state ordinances immediately, but this is really not feast and famine and flood and disaster, this is just a meeting, so there really isn't a way to enact this any sooner than the normal process. Berg: Well, Madam Mayor, I'll read these ordinances by title, so we can continue on. Ordinance No. 05-1183, an ordinance for Enclave Subdivision for annexation of property located on a portion of the northwest quarter of the southwest quarter of Section 20, Township 3 North, Range 1 East, Boise Meridian, Ada County, Idaho, as described in Attachment A and annexing certain land and territory situated in Ada County, Idaho, and adjacent and contiguous to the corporate limits of the City of Meridian, as required by the -- as requested by the City of Meridian, establishing and determining the land use zoning classification of said lands from RUT, Ada County, to R-4, medium low density residential district in the Meridian City Code, providing that copies of this ordinance shall be filed with the Ada County assessor, the Ada County recorder, and the Idaho State Tax Commission as required by law and providing for a summary of the ordinance and providing for a waiver of the reading rules and providing an effective date. Berg: Ordinance 05-1184, an ordinance repealing and reenacting Title 2, Chapter 4, Section 1 of the Meridian City Code, regarding the membership organization and rules of the Meridian City Planning and Zoning Commission and providing for a waiver of the reading rules and providing for an effective date. Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 73 of 74 De Weerd: Thank you. You have heard these two ordinances read by title only. Is there anyone who like to hear it read in its entirety? Seeing none and hearing none, Council? Wardle: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Wardle. Wardle: Give me credit anyway. I move that we approve Items 21 and 22, with suspension of rules. Donnell: Second. De Weerd: The motion is to approve Items 21 and 22. Mr. Berg, will you, please, call roll. Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Donnell, yea. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 23: Executive Session per Idaho State Code 67-2345(1 )(b)&(c): De Weerd: Thank you. Item 23. We will need a motion. Wardle: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Wardle. Wardle: I move that we adjourn into Executive Session per Idaho State Code 67- 2345(1 )(b) and (c). Bird: Second. De Weerd: Mr. Berg, will you call roll. Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Donnell, yea. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. EXECUTIVE SESSION. Reconvene. Rountree: Move to come out of executive session. Bird: Second. Meridian City Council September 20, 2005 Page 74 of 74 Rountree: Motion to adjourn. Bird: Second. ALL AYES. MOTION CARRIED. De Weerd: I would entertain a motion to adjourn. Rountree: So moved. Bird: Second. De Weerd: All those in favor. ALL AYES. MOTION CARRIED. Bird: Note that it's 11 :40 and past my bedtime. MEETING ADJOURNED AT 11 :40 P.M. (TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS) It} 1 /8 1 tJ~ DATE APPROVED