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HomeMy WebLinkAboutSeptember 13, 2005 C/C Minutes Meridian City Council September 13, 2005 Page 14 of 50 De Weerd: Okay. There is a motion to deny the request for waiver of fees as stated in Item No.8. Is there any further discussion? Mr. Berg. No. Okay. Do we need roll call? Baird: Yes. De Weerd: Ok~¥.--_.!V1r. Berg. Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, nay; Donnell, absent. -- MOTION CARRIED: TWO AYES. ONE NAY. ONE ABSENT. Baird: And, Madam Mayor, I would suggest that the clerk keep one copy of the handout, but -- as an indication that what was presented to you tonight was not relevant to the fee discussion. I would suggest that we hand this back to Mr. Hobbs for submission at such time that the matter would come to you on the merits. De Weerd: Okay. Baird: So, it is in the record, but I wanted to -- De Weerd: So you can use these later. Baird: -- make a point that you did not consider that information regarding the fees tonight. Item 9: Continued Public Hearing from August 23,2005: AZ 05-032 Request for Annexation and Zoning of .56 acres from R6 to L-O zone for West Carol Street Professional Center by James and Carrie Jewett - 1560 Carol Street: De Weerd: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Hobbs. Item 9 is a continued Public Hearing from August 23rd on AZ 05-032. I will open this Public Hearing -- this continued Public Hearing with staff comments. Canning: Yes, Madam Mayor, it is a continued Public Hearing. The site didn't get the posting done in time and that was the reason it was continued, so you have not had any introduction to this project, which I will do now. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is West Carol Street Professional Center. It's located at 1560 Carol Street and it's on the corner of Locust Grove and Carol Street. The application is simply one of annexation and zoning. There is no accompanying project for this one. It's -- the annexation area is .56 acres and they are requesting to go from R-6 zoning in the county, which is a residential zoning, to L-O in the City of Meridian. The applicant intends to remodel the existing home into an office and use the shop and storage for uses related to the office. And you can see here the existing home and they do plan on remodeling and expanding the structure. This is Locust Grove. This is Carol Street. Meridian City Council September 13, 2005 Page 15 of 50 This is the existing shop. And, then, parking would come in by the existing shop and, then, to the -- on the east -- west side of the office building here. They have taken many of the existing trees and relocated them to the north property line. It is a heavily vegetated site as proposed. This property is designated for low density residential on the Comprehensive Plan, but it does meet the merit for asking for an office use. It does have frontage on the arterial street. Even though it's not taking access from that frontage, it does have frontage on Locust Grove and the Comprehensive Plan amendment states that at the discretion of City Council, areas with a residential Comprehensive Plan designation may request office uses if the property has frontage on an arterial or a section line road and is three acres in size or less. And so that does apply in this instance. We also have some elevations. This would be from West Carol Street and, then, from -- it says Linder. That should be Locust Grove. The Planning and Zoning Commission did recommend approval at their July 21 st hearing. There were several neighbors, to be specific, that testified in opposition to the proposal. Those included Keith McRoberts, Charles Stewart, Gilbert Tooning, Lynn Tooning, Jennifer McRoberts, Debbie Woodall, Dan Woodall and Jay Jones. The key issues of discussion were whether or not it was an appropriate land use for the area and the traffic. The Commission did make two changes to the staff's initial recommendation. The first change requires the applicant to provide a vehicle cross-access to the property to the north, so they would extend this drive aisle and have the opportunity to have cross-access to this parcel. And I could show you why that becomes important, as you see their only access is on Locust Grove. So, we would have some -- if this were to go office, we would have some opportunity to pull that traffic off of the arterial road and bring it in on a side street. They also made one additional change and that was there was a request for alternative compliance on the west boundary, as well as the north boundary, did not have a 20-foot land use buffer between the residential and the office use. Instead, they have provided alternative compliance through heavier vegetation. The question came up about the existing shop. If that shop is removed, then, the Commission wanted to keep the 20-foot wide buffer along the west property line. Right there. Okay. The outstanding issues before Council -- there is one from the applicant and that's regarding this northern property line. As I mentioned before, they have plans to expand the building up to ten feet, but a 20-foot landscape buffer is required. However, we received a notarized letter from this property owner stating that they intend to develop the property as commercial at some point in the future and that they would not object to a reduced buffer being on this northern property line. Given that, the staff would feel that that additional ten feet is there -- the proposed ten feet is sufficient that there is enough room for all the additional trees that they are relocating from other areas of the site. And with that I will end staff's presentation. De Weerd: Council, any questions for staff? Bird: I have none. De Weerd: Okay. Would the applicant like to come forward. If you will, please, state your name and address for the record. Meridian City Council September 13, 2005 Page 16 of 50 Jewett: Jim Jewett. 516 South Capitol, Boise, Idaho. De Weerd: Thank you. Jewett: With staff's additional comments regarding the -- the non-objection to the alternative compliance, I guess I'm in total agreement to the staff report, then, if that would be an added change. So, I'll really just speak briefly -- because I know the neighbors would like to speak -- on why I'm doing this. You know, we -- I live in Meridian and we do -- a lot of our business is between Eagle and Kuna and generally in this middle part of the county. Right now our office is in downtown Boise and we find ourselves fighting the traffic going that way and fighting traffic coming back home every night and we desire to have an office close to where we live. It's for our own office. It's -- we sell real estate and we develop real estate. Currently have an internal staff of five and an external staff of five. And it's our desire to be somewhere -- like in downtown Boise we -- our office is close to restaurants and some shopping, so we walk to our lunch and this would give us the same ability here with the shopping that's around there and the restaurants that are around there and even the downtown not being that far away. So, that's why. We looked and we looked and it was hard that -- and we want ownership, we don't want to rent, we want to own our building. And we don't need a large building. But the shop was appealing to us, because we store signs -- we don't want to store them outside on the -- along side of a building, we'd like to store our real estate signs and our marketing signs and our subdivision signs away when we don't use them. So, the shop provides a nice utility use for that. And, of course, the location for us was good. So, that's our desire of why we want to convert just to an office for ourselves. Some of the issues you will hear tonight, which we talked about at P&Z from the neighbors was traffic. But it's traffic that was generated along Locust Grove, not traffic I'm going to be generating. Our traffic will be coming in the morning, not leaving in the morning like a normal homeowner would leave in the morning. So, our additional use I don't think will impact that traffic at all. We will be going the opposite way. The fact of the matter is that me and my wife and some of the other employees don't have to get on Eagle Road and try to get on the freeway every morning. It will actually help some traffic somewhere else, although very minutely. But getting off Eagle Road in the evening sometimes I have to get off Eagle Road and try to get over and turn at Chevron and that's sometimes very difficult. So, I think we will be a good neighbor to the neighborhood. I know the issue is this is the only entrance for the neighbors -- Anna, could you go to the vicinity map. It is the only entrance to these neighbors and I understand that and we don't want to be a negative neighbor. The one neighbor here asked if we possibly could put a different style of fence along that boundary, maybe a split base of concrete or block wall, instead of a vinyl fence, and I believe staff indicated that would still be within their fence ordinance. I would be agreeable to make that change to help out the neighbors, but I don't think our use is going to be very intrusive on the neighbors. I realize the neighbors have had some issues with the Fred Meyer parking lot and the Walgreens' lights and as I indicated in the P&Z, it's hard for me to deal with issues I wasn't involved with and I didn't know it was an issue regarding when they chip seal Locust Grove that some of the striping on Locust Grove to keep that intersection open was unvisible, but as I drove by recently, it is visible. I don't know if Meridian City Council September 13, 2005 Page 17 of 50 it's been repainted on or if it's just showing back through, hopefully, to keep that intersection clear, so the owners can get -- the owners of these homes can get in and out. The other issue was there is a sight visibility issue right here, but -- and, Anna, if you can go to the aerial, it's already -- but ACHD come back in from a previous owner, so I bought it. We will be removing that immediately, so that this -- trying to make a left or right-hand turn, you don't have this hedge row basically blocking your view. So, with that I would stand for any questions. De Weerd: Council, any questions? Bird: Jim -- Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Uh-huh. Bird: Mr. Jewett, would you restate on what the fence there on the west boundary you - - you would be willing to go block? Jewett: I would be willing to go split face block -- Bird: At what height? Jewett: Well, he'd like it to be six foot all the way to the sidewalk. I'll go whatever I'm allowed to go. I don't know if I'm allowed to go six foot all the way to the sidewalk, so -- but I would be willing to go as far as I'm allowed. We did try to provide some extra landscaping to buffer him from these headlights. He's concerned about turning in and out and I understand his point and if we can landscape this up to try to protect his -- his bedroom is right in this area. I believe it faces this direction. Bird: Follow up? De Weerd: Uh-huh. Bird: Well, I take it if it's going to be an office you're probably only talking 7:00 to 6:00 of being open. I realize in the wintertime headlights will be coming in, but most of the time he's -- Jewett: Our general hours are 7:00 to 6:00. Bird: And you don't have people going in and out of there at night. Jewett: No. I think the conditions of approval were 7:00 to 10:00, were my limitations. We would have a cleaning crew come in in the evening. De Weerd: Okay. Any further questions, Mr. Bird? Any from Council? Rountree: I don't have any right now. Meridian City Council September 13, 2005 Page 18 of 50 De Weerd: Thank you. Jewett: Thank you. De Weerd: We do have a number of people signed up and when I read your name and if you'd like to provide testimony, we would invite you to come up at that time. Charles Stewart. And there is no indication for, against, or neutral. Stewart: Madam Mayor, City Council, Charles R. Stewart, 1870 West Pine. De Weerd: Thank you. Stewart: I will be speaking for my wife and I -- lifetime residents of Meridian and we are opposed to the rezoning and annexation of this property. I have one question -- well, I guess maybe it doesn't pertain. Okay. One concern is our property values -- this business will not increase my property values and it may hurt it. We feel that it isn't going to help the value of the property for the first thing you see when you pull in our subdivision is the business that takes access off from our residential street. The ordinance that made this type of annexation legal, I assume, possibly, at the time was not thought of as an arterial -- not having the access off the arterial. I mean -- excuse me. One of our main concerns is the traffic and in the mornings and in the afternoon, for about 30 minutes in the morning is -- stacking occurs on Locust Grove for the light on Fairview. It comes back past the entrance to our subdivision and not only the left turn lane, but also the straight ahead traffic at times. The lanes out there, even if you could see them, it wouldn't make a difference to these people, because they need to get over in line, they feel, to make their left-hand turn, they don't think -- if they sit over in the -- in this area like they are supposed to and, then, slide in, somebody will pass them on the left. I have some pictures there that I took this morning. It's approximately 7:45 and it shows this. If you come -- if you're making a left turn from Locust Grove into Carol Street when these people will be coming to work in the morning, it is just absolutely impossible, because I sat there through three light changes this morning just testing it and the line never emptied out during the time I'm sitting there to make -- for me to make my left turn there and they would not leave me an opening to pull through, if -- even if they did, there is the straight through traffic coming by on the far side that you just can't hardly take a chance on pulling through the opening. So, I finally got through after three light changes. The protected area that we normally pull into to make our left turns, these cars that are closest to us, the one -- the top right picture, that was back -- the straight ahead line was backed up clear to that point. De Weerd: Mr. Stewart? Stewart: Yes. De Weerd: If you would summarize your remarks. Thank you. Meridian City Council September 13, 2005 Page 19 of 50 Stewart: One other problem is there will be trash and recycle trucks coming in our subdivision for that one home, one business, they will have to come in our subdivision and go clear around the circle to leave or make a back around turn at the first intersection, which is very dangerous with a truck. One other thing is the lot size, it's described as .56 acres. I realize that for annexation purposes, it has to go from center line to center line, where, actually, the lot is 67 by 183, which will lose five feet off of the Carol Street side, making 62 by 183, which is .26 acres. And for a 4,000 square foot building and ten parking spaces, which two of these are proposed to be within the shop to make it legal, it shows why alternative compliance is necessary. The Ada County Highway District said there will be no parking on Carol Street, it will all have to be on site. So, thank's very much. De Weerd: Thank you. Any questions? Bird: I got a question. De Weerd: Mr. Stewart. Bird: Madam Mayor? Mr. Stewart, would you like to give your address again for the record. I think you give the wrong one. Stewart: I'm still down -- 34 years in the wrong place. 1870 West Carol. De Weerd: Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Bird. He knows where you live. That's really frightening. Bird: Been neighbors for 38 years. Rountree: It works both ways. De Weerd: Del Ray. Okay. Are you signed up against, for the record? Okay. Thank you. Jennifer McRoberts. If you will, please, state your name and correct address for the record. McRoberts: Jennifer McRoberts. 1490 East Carol. De Weerd: Thank you. McRoberts: I have two statements. One from a neighbor who could not attend the meeting and I'll read hers first. And she is Wanda Watson at 1432 South Carol. To Whom It May Concern: In addition to my objection letter dated June 2nd, 2005, I would like to add the following comment: In the recent meeting regarding the property listed above at 1560 Carol, there were many residents of the Doris Subdivision, in attendance for the purpose of objecting to the application made by Jim and Carrie Jewett. Each resident took time from their schedule only to have the developer at the hearing motion for the hearing to be postponed due to improper notice of the meeting. I am sure that Meridian City Council September 13,2005 Page 20 of 50 as a developer he must have known what the requirements for notice were. Was this some kind of ploy to waylay those residents who actually live in this subdivision and strongly object to this? I have a feeling this is the case. I am unable to attend the next meeting scheduled on this subject due previous out-of-town commitments, but certainly want my objection heard. Please alert all board members that in addition to any neighbors who may object in person at your meeting, I have also sent this objection to be read. Wanda Watson. De Weerd: Thank you. McRoberts: We as neighbors in the Doris Subdivision find it increasingly difficult to address Meridian city meetings. We have submitted a petition representing the majority of residential neighbors most adversely affected by the proposed annexation and zoning change to a business at 1560 South Carol. We have also submitted letters with valid concerns outlined about why the change would negatively impact us. We know you can't control the additional traffic problems this would create, but you can consider the impact. We know you can't control the negative impact on property values, but you can consider how it will impact us. We know that you know this is a residential area and the homes were purchased as residences. This requested change only benefits two people, the buyer and the seller. It was very condescending at the Planning and Zoning meeting for one member to state he wouldn't want to buy the home as a residence because of its location. There are many homes that are not in ideal locations and zoning regulations are not changed to accommodate the sale of these homes at a business rate. At the planning and zoning meeting we heard that there is an approximate 40 percent vacancy rate in business locations in Meridian. This shows an attitude if we build it they will come. This translates into quantity over quality and now we have a business owner who wants to change the residential area, instead of going into one of these vacant business locations, some of which do have storage areas as the shop on this property. The proposed building of 4,000 square feet is two and a half times the size of the existing building and it looks like a prison barracks or a Quonset hut. It's a very unattractive building. The developer will be storing barricades in the existing shop, in addition to signs, and normally these are not transported by passenger vehicles. This does not indicate light office usage. So, despite all we have presented, staff comes up with approval, Planning and Zoning and here, even allowing deviations from code concerning setbacks. All these facts would lead us as residents to believe that if the title developer issues at a city meeting, then, acceptance is guaranteed. I hope this isn't the case. But if it is, we would like this body to consider our request. We would like a smaller and more esthetically pleasing building or just remodel the interior as some residents were led to believe when questioned about changing the CC&Rs by the buyer. The existing shop is less than five feet from our property line. We would like the stone wall, consistent with the wall put up by Walgreens on the property line and we would like it at least seven feet tall. Not only for esthetics, but for our privacy. Lighting and signing should be minimal and unobtrusive -- and I'm closing. Barricades cannot be stored in the shop and no equipment or vehicles larger than a pickup to access the property, because barricades are not hauled away by pickups. We would hope that the Meridian City Council September 13. 2005 Page 21 of 50 25 residents residing in Doris Subdivision and like living there, would not be casually dismissed by this body. This developer has other options. Thank you. De Weerd: Ma'am, I'm sorry, I do have a question. And I don't ask this to be condescending, okay? McRoberts: Okay. De Weerd: Is you have requested that a vehicle no larger than a pickup enter onto this property. Do you have those restrictions in your CC&Rs for the residential properties in the subdivision as well? McRoberts: We have restrictions about businesses in there. No, we don't have vehicle size in there, but if this is going to be okayed as a business and he's going to be storing barricades in there, then, I don't want huge trucks hauling barricades in and out. De Weerd: Okay. We will try and get clarification on what will be transporting those as well. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: Mrs. McRoberts-- De Weerd: I'm sorry. Mrs. Roberts. Bird: I got a question for you, too. What do you consider barricades? McRoberts: What I consider barricades are what they put up to block when they are building on roads, that type of thing. The cement barricades. That's my vision of barricades. Bird: The cement ones. That's what I thought. Okay. Thank you. De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Keith McRoberts. K.McRoberts: My name is Keith McRoberts. 1492 South Carol. Hopefully, that's the same place my wife lives. De Weerd: Thank you. Rountree: That's a good thing. K.McRoberts: At the Planning and Zoning meeting one of the members mentioned that he wouldn't want to live in that house, so it may as well go commercial. Well, he can Meridian City Council September 13, 2005 Page 22 of 50 say that about our place now, because it would depreciate the value of our place and who would want to buy it. It would be harder for us to find, when we sell, somebody to buy our place as a residence with commercial now almost surrounding it. One of the Council -- not council members, but Planning and Zoning members also said that he didn't believe that it wouldn't hurt that much in property values. Well, when we was looking for a place we didn't -- we weren't looking for a place to where we had a front view of the back of a drugstore or an office building on the side of us or a Jackson's station, whatever comes next behind us. That isn't what our preference was for a house when we were looking for a house. It would be hard pressed to find somebody to buy a house with that surrounding them. I know he mentioned that he had no control over what problems we had with lighting from other businesses or around, but we were told that the lighting -- when we were complaining about the lighting situation going on through the drugstore, we was told that light shades could be put on and wouldn't cause any problems that suited everybody, but when your house is almost underneath the light, those shades aren't worth anything. They don't do any good for us, unless the shades were almost to the ground, because in our bedroom we don't need a light unless we are reading. Another point I would -- on the -- also we do approve a lot more of it with the taller fence, with the block fence, seven foot tall, as far out as we can get. I know that you can't go possibly all the way to the sidewalk with that height, but he was talking about only certainly hours, but without a gate there, cars coming in there 24-7, they don't care about hours of an office. You have a lot of traffic come in that doesn't realize that there is no exit, other than the one that they just came in on, so they just turn around. They gives them a place to turn around and we get the headlights right in our bedroom window. Thanks. De Weerd: Thank you. And Dan Woodall signed up against. Woodall: I'm Dan Woodall, 1950 West Carol. I agree with my -- with the people that spoke previously. The traffic on Locust Grove is very very bad in the morning. Cars coming in are as much a problem as cars going out. I know you don't control that, but, please, consider it. The McRoberts bought a beautiful house and they made it more beautiful. It has a wrought iron fence. Welded. They have gone to incredible expense to make a wonderful house there. If we could put up the picture of what he wants to put next door. That's a tin roof. It doesn't fit in our neighborhood. It's going to look like some kind of McDonald's. I really don't want to turn into my neighborhood and see that. every day. It is inappropriate. I assume that when you made the ruling that you could put offices in residentials on the section line roads, that you were assuming that it would be an office that was just a remodeled house and that it would look like a house. That wouldn't be so bad. This is atrocious. This -- this is not right. That lot needs to stay residential. This does not need to go commercial. This is not an appropriate use. And that's really all I have. Thank you. De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Woodall. Is there anyone else who like to provide testimony on this application? Okay. Would the applicant like to respond? Jewett: For the record, Jim Jewett again. Meridian City Council September 13, 2005 Page 23 of 50 De Weerd: Thank you. Jewett: Property value and the ability to sell one's home that would be next to -- again, markets change from time to time and right now on our real estate market I guess you -- the property values in this price range are just escalating very quickly. Very alarming sometimes. So, I really -- it's hard for me to say that there is going to be a loss of value or even the value won't just continue to rise, because that's just the market in Meridian right now. Markets do ebb and flow. I can't forecast the future. I just don't believe that our use of what we want to build would adversely affect -- you know, a lot of people look at L-O as a good neighbor, because they are not there at night. They are not there on weekends, so you don't have that additional issue of evenings and weekends. Comments about the style. You know, we have talked to that neighbor the couple times he's asked us and we have, we have looked, and we just can't -- I and my architect couldn't come up with a scheme for remodeling the facade without just really changing a lot more and I will just go through what we are doing on this design. Basically, the way the house is now, it's got a straight gable roof that runs across this length of the house and, then, there is a gable like this off the front of the house. So, what we are doing is leaving the roof in place, taking out the existing roofing and putting a metal -- patina green metal roofing. It's a very nice looking roof. It's very commercialized, yes, but it's used a lot. And, then, we are taking some vertical walls, parapet style, along the ends to cover up the existing gables. There is a gable right here now that faces Locust Grove. We are just vertically going up the wall and stuccoing those, basically, instead of your typical office where you see it's all hip and this gives it a little bit different character. And, then, we put in the styled down shading that are more urban style, they don't shine away, they are very low intensity and away from the building. It's just really to light the building and the walkways. And, then, creates a little metal sun shades for the windows to get a little bit more detail. So, it's really some -- some very minor subtle changes that really does change the look of the building, but we felt that it changed it in a positive way and with the landscaping that's proposed, you know, we feel like it would be positive for both the neighbors and the surrounding commercial buildings as well. I'd like to talk a little bit about some of the P&Z comments, because there was some quotes here -- I think the question that I posed is, obviously, the people who owned the property didn't want to stay there anymore, they wanted to move into a subdivision where they could get away from Locust Grove. And I guess the question was who -- you know, what, would be the use? Would it turn into a rental where you just had renters in there or would it potentially be requested to go some other -- maybe a higher density residential. And I believe the P&Z comments was that they felt that this type of use would have been the least intrusive that could have come forward, that in times forward somebody could come through with an even higher commercial intensive use versus the L-O, which would have more of a 24-7 operation. I think the word Wendy's was even used as an example of something that could be there in the future. Not today, but in the future. So, I guess the question that was posed there was is the highest and best use residential? And I think the answer was no. De Weerd: A Wendy's couldn't be there. Meridian City Council September 13, 2005 Page 24 of 50 Jewett: Not today. De Weerd: No. Even with a step up you couldn't get a Wendy's there. Bird: Not with your current Comp Plan. De Weerd: I'm sorry. It just bothered me. Jewett: Okay. Then there was also comments about access onto an arterial. Anna, if you could go to the -- yeah. Thank you. Either one of those will work. I guess -- and I hope maybe ACHD can comment on this, but I guess the acknowledgement of P&Z from most of the neighbors was they acknowledge that these properties here they acknowledge were going to be -- eventually go commercial, but just not this one, which I don't quite understand if these go commercial, why not that one. But if these go commercial there is an access point right here that goes on that road that goes around Fred Meyer. The idea would be that you would line up your access road. There is also an access point right here into the Fred Meyer parking lot. So, you want to line up your accesses on Locust Grove to not take -- everybody take access off of Locust Grove. So, in this particular case not taking direct access off on Locust Grove is a plus, not a minus. There was talk about traffic and I don't know what my options are as an L-O, but we would certainly be willing to stay with the wheeled cart and wheel it out like the homeowners do. I don't think we would generate that much traffic. We would need a dumpsters, but I don't know what our requirements are as a conversion to L-O. De Weerd: If you could, please, summarize. Jewett: I don't have any stone barricades. I have some of those little ones you see with the little stripes on it when we extend roads through a subdivision and it was -- we take them down occasionally. Most of the time they never come to our shop, but they may for a week or two, but that's the only barricade that we have. I don't own any of the big stone ones, so -- De Weerd: What kind of vehicle do you transport them in? Jewett: We have a pickup truck with a dump bed on it. It's a Ford F450 pickup. That's the biggest pickup we own. I guess I just -- again, I stated earlier I agree with the block wall, if that would be what they wanted. And with that I would stand for any questions. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: Jim, did you have any neighborhood meetings before you brought this application forward? Meridian City Council September 13, 2005 Page 25 of 50 Jewett: I guess we attempted to, but I guess we were told that nobody wanted to come. Bird: Okay. And, then; on the roof, I don't know what the CC&Rs in the existing subdivision go, but I'm sure it's not metal roofs. I'm sure they are not allowed to have metal roofs. I would -- would be willing to look into putting another type of roof on there that is in -- that conforms to their CC&Rs. Jewett: Yes. Bird: Okay. De Weerd: Any other questions? Jim, I guess I do. They had mentioned the square footage and I believe that was in Anna's opening remarks, but can you tell me what the current square footage is and if you are altering it, what the proposed square footage would be? Jewett: Of the building or the lot? De Weerd: Of the building. Jewett: The current square footage of the building is about 2000 square foot right here. We wanted to propose to go up to between 36 and 4,000 square feet. De Weerd: And how would you be doing that? I mean are you, then, extending to the north or are you going an additional story? Jewett: No. It would be just an extension. This outline here would be the future expansion. The existing building is right here. This would be the future expansion right here. De Weerd: Okay. And you did cover the trash collection. I guess I can understand what the citizens and the neighbors are saying. My daughter has a friend that lives in that subdivision and trying to get into that subdivision is -- you take your life into your hands. It's a nightmare, ACHD. And I don't know what the solution is, but this is certainly -- if those lots along Locust Grove provide an opportunity to divert some of that traffic out of that road, that certainly would be seen as something that would be better than it is. But it is very difficult and you mentioned you don't want to be driving on Eagle anymore. I think turning into that subdivision can be just as scary. Jewett: I'd like to hear what ACHD has to say about that one. De Weerd: I don't know if he has turned into that subdivision and I'm assuming you have. Jewett: I have. Yes. Meridian City Council September 13, 2005 Page 26 of 50 De Weerd: And with the -- this being a county sub, currently BFI picks up their traffic -- or their trash. Our provider, SSC, would pick up yours. And so, you know, they would have to go into the subdivision and turn around. There is no other way to do it. They couldn't collect it off of Locust Grove. Jewett: No. I don't believe they could do that. De Weerd: So -- but that would be a concern. I don't have any other questions. And, Council, no further questions? Thank you. Jewett: Thank you. De Weerd: Staff, was there anything further-- Canning: No, ma'am. De Weerd: Okay. Council? Bird: I have none. De Weerd: Okay. I would entertain a motion. Canning: Madam Mayor, I'm sorry, there is one thing. You do need new findings to reflect whatever other changes you made here, but also to acknowledge the ten foot buffer on the north, if that's the way you're inclined to go. Bird: Madam Mayor, I do have a question on that. On that first for Lieutenant Stowe there. That seven foot tall block wall, any problems that you see? De Weerd: The height would. Bird: The height was seven foot. De Weerd: Yeah. Bird: And it's a block and that's what they have requested in that one. I think he agreed. De Weerd: I think our ordinance is succinct. Stowe: Mr. Bird, Madam Mayor, Councilmembers, the seven foot wall coming out to the sidewalk would definitely create a site problem and we would at least require that it be set back -- I think it's 20 feet. Yeah. And as far as the block wall goes, that make up of the wall wouldn't matter to us. The extra foot in height really doesn't have effect on Meridian City Council September 13, 2005 Page 27 of 50 US, it's just that sight when we come in and being able to see and also the sight for any kind of drivers coming in and out of that area will need that setback. Bird: Okay. Thank you very much. De Weerd: Anna, with a step down in the height, how far can that, per our ordinance, be from the sidewalk? Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the new ordinance establishes the full height for the wall could occur at the setback. I believe the L-O setback is 20 feet under the new ordinance. I'm pretty sure it is. But I don't have it memorized right now. But I'm 90 percent sure it would be 20 feet. The commercial zones, which L-O is a commercial district, do allow for an eight foot height. So, the seven foot would be okay. If it were on the other property line it could only be six feet. But the commercial districts do allow for a taller fence. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: Anna, could that -- in the 20 foot setback, could you drop it -- and this is for the Lieutenant, too. Could you drop it down to three or four feet, give it a little bit of a -- Canning: You're saying drop it to three feet? It's four foot open or three foot solid and, then, at the setback line can you go to -- Bird: And that would be sufficient for the police department, too? Thank you. De Weerd: Okay. Any further questions from Council for staff? Okay. Okay. Do I have a motion to close? Rountree: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Rountree. Rountree: I move that we close the Public Hearing on Item No.9. Bird: Second. De Weerd: Okay. Motion to close the Public Hearing on Item 9. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT. De Weerd: Discussion? Meridian City Council September 13, 2005 Page 28 of 50 Rountree: Madam Mayor, I -- De Weerd: Mr. Rountree. Rountree: -- heard a lot of things that we hear all too frequently in issues that, typically, at least most of them get worked out when you have a developer and an adjacent residential area sit down and work through their issues. I have heard some give on the part of the developer tonight and we have heard some give on the part of the residents in terms of what they would be willing to accept. My preference would be to -- if we had to reopen the hearing and direct the developer and the residents to sit down and see if they could come to some general agreement. Not necessarily compromise or not necessarily consensus, but at least they had an opportunity to work through their issues with one another. And, then, bring whatever resolve back to the city. Without that, I guess this is an annexation request, the area is actually not part of the City of Meridian. My crystal ball says to me that probably this whole area at some point in time will be commercial. At least along Locust Grove. But I'll make the statement I make a lot of times about annexation. I'm not in any hurry. So, if this isn't annexed right now, I'm okay with that. De Weerd: Okay. Any further comment? Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: To go along with Charlie, I'm not in any hurry to run out and annex either, but also I have no problem if somebody requests it. But I also like the idea of opening up the Public Hearing -- and this is not -- you know, no guarantee that it's going to pass or fail, but I believe that the applicant should try to sit down with the neighbors at a meeting and talk it out. We -- the successful ones that have come through us has always been able to do and I'm sure there is things that can be worked out. I don't think the neighbors are a hundred percent against the project and I don't think the applicant is wanting to be hardheaded about meeting with them and working out some kind of compromise. So, I would -- if Mr. Rountree and Mr. Wardle both agree, I would move that we would reopen that and continue it, with that specification of the applicant and getting a meeting with the neighbors within two weeks. De Weerd: That was a motion? Bird: Well, no, I'm -- if these -- if the other gentlemen are -- I could go either way. Wardle: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Wardle. Meridian City Council September 13, 2005 Page 29 of 50 Wardle: I would agree. The things that I heard specifically were building style, roofing type, architectural complementation to the adjacent properties, in addition to the fencing issue, were the two major ones that I had heard -- would agree to open -- reopen the Public Hearing and direct those specific things to be addressed. Rountree: Second his motion. Wardle: Second. De Weerd: It was a motion. Bird: Okay. Rountree: Second. Wardle: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Wardle, thank you. Mr. Rountree. Okay. Any further discussion on the motion to open the Public Hearing and ask that the applicant meet with the neighbors to have discussions on some of their concerns and come back to Council in two weeks; is that what your motion was? Bird: Uh-huh. Continue the Public Hearing to September 27th, 2000. De Weerd: Okay. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT. De Weerd: This item is, again, open for Public Hearing. It has been continued to September 27th? Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes. Bird: I believe I'd also offer up, if they don't have a location, I'm sure you can find -- you can get ahold if Will or -- and this room would be available some evening for Jim if he could do it. Item 10: Public Hearing: MI 05-009 Request for Miscellaneous application for approval to remove the Preliminary Plat, Final Plat and Development Agreement requirement for a 20 foot landscape buffer on the southern boundary of the property for Olsen Bush Subdivision No.2 by R2 Development, Inc. - west end of East Lanark Street: