HomeMy WebLinkAbout2005 08-16
Meridian City Council Meetina
AuQust 16. 2005.
The regular meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 7:03 P.M.,
Tuesday, August 16, 2005, by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Mayor Tammy de Weerd, Keith Bird, Shaun Wardle, Charlie
Rountree, and Christine Donnell.
Others Present: Ted Baird, Will Berg, Anna Canning, Bill Musser, Kenny Bowers, Len
Grady, Doug Strong, Stacy Kilchenmann, and Dean Willis.
Item 1:
Roll-call Attendance:
Roll call.
X Shaun Wardle
X Charlie Rountree
X
X Christine Donnell
X Keith Bird
Mayor Tammy de Weerd
De Weerd: Good evening. I would like to go ahead and open the regular City Council
meeting and call it to order. It is Tuesday, August 16th, it is five -- oh, it's not quite five
minutes after 7:00. But we appreciate you joining us here tonight and I will start with roll
call attendance. Mr. Berg.
Item 2:
Pledge of Allegiance:
De Weerd: Tonight we will be led in the pledge by Cason. He is with Troop 198. If you
will all rise.
Item 3:
Community Invocation by Pastor Bud Henthorn, with Meridian
Gospel Tabernacle:
De Weerd: Cason, I would like to give you a pin for leading us tonight. Thank you.
Okay. Item No.3 is our community invocation. I would invite you to join us in the
community invocation or take this opportunity for a moment of silence. We will be led
by Pastor Bud Henthorn with the Meridian Gospel Tabernacle.
Henthorn: Heavenly Father, we have so much to be grateful for this evening, your
abundant blessing and provision in our lives is just amazing. God, as we come together
to manage the prosperity that you have given to this community, we pray, Lord, that you
would help us to live as people who highly regard your justice. Help us, Lord, who have
received mercy also to be people who are merciful. And, Lord God, as all these
blessings are from your hand, we pay that you would cause us to walk humbly tonight.
We ask thee to bless these proceedings with your presence, with your wisdom, and with
your direction, in Jesus' name, amen.
Item 4:
Adoption of the Agenda:
Meridian City Council
August16,2005
Page 2 of 58
De Weerd: Thank you. Item No.4, adoption of the agenda.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: We have some changes, but we will-- on the -- we want to move Consent Agenda
item C to 7-C on the regular agenda. Consent Agenda L, M, N, 0 is resolutions and
they start at 05-482 and go through 05-485. And also Item P is 05-486, resolution
number. And, then, the regular agenda we got an ordinance number, 05-1172, which
will be being read. With that I move that we approve the agenda as revised.
Wardle: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. The motion is to approve the agenda as revised. All those in favor
say aye. Okay. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 5:
Consent Agenda:
A.
B.
Approve Minutes of June 7, 2005 City Council Special Meeting:
Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: VAR
05-011 Request for a Variance to allow a second free-standing
monument sign on the same street frontage for Kina Electric
Sians for King Electric Signs - 2200 South Cobalt Pointe Way:
D.
Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: AZ 05-
018 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 29.18 acres to R-4, R-8
& R-15 zones for Westborouah Sauare Subdivision by JLJ
Enterprises, Inc. - SEC of Jericho Road and Chinden Boulevard:
E.
Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: PP 05-
020 Request for Preliminary Plat approval for 7 building lots and 1
common lot on 5.39 acres in a proposed R-15 zone for
Westborouah Sauare Subdivision by JLJ Enterprises, Inc. -
SEC of Jericho Road and Chinden Boulevard:
F.
Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: CUP
05-027 Request for Conditional Use Permit / Planned Development
approval of a mixed-use development consisting of 10 multi-family
buildings and 6 office buildings with multiple buildings on a single
lot and a waiver of the street frontage requirement in a proposed R-
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August 16, 2005
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J.
M.
O.
15 zone for Westborouah Sauare Subdivision by JLJ
Enterprises, Inc. - SEC of Jericho Road and Chinden Boulevard
G.
Approve New Beer and Wine License for Quick Stuff - 3010
Goldstone Drive East:
H.
Revised Amendment to Historic Preservation Consultant
Aareement:
I.
Aareement for Construction Services with Walt Morrow
Construction, Inc.:
License Aareement with Nampa & Meridian Irriaation District
for Castlebrook No.4 & 5:
K.
Chanae Order No.1 (Final)Jor WWT...fJ:!eadwor~s wit~
Company:
L
Resolution No. Adopting Mayor's
Youth Advisory Council Resolution No.1 Supporting the
Efforts of the Blueprint for Good Growth and Encouraging the
Meridian City Council to Develop a Comprehensive Plan for
Sustainable Growth:
Resolution No. : V AC 05-006 Request for
a Vacation of a private road known as E. Herons Crossing Lane
and Meridian City sanitary sewer easement for Quenzer
Commons Subdivision No.9 by Brighton Investments, LLC -
west of North Locust Grove Road and north of East Ustick Road:
N.
Resolution No. : V AC 05-007 Request for
a Vacation of a portion of the 10-foot wide easement centered on
the interior common lot line of Lots 1 and 2, Block 2, Olson and
Bush Industrial Park Subdivision by Dennis Kelley & Walter
Sigmont - 3131 East Lanark Street:
Resolution No. : VAC 05-008 Request for
a Vacation of platted utility easements of Lots 16, 17,21-27, Block
2 of Honor Park Subdivision No.3 by Franklin / Stratford
Investments, LLC - south of East Franklin Road and west of
Stratford Drive:
P.
Resolution No. : VAC 05-009 Request for
a Vacation of the public utility easement on Lot 8, Block 20 of
Paramount Subdivision No.4 by Paramount Development, Inc.
- south of Chinden and west of Meridian Road:
Meridian City Council
August 16,2005
Page 4 of 58
De Weerd: Item 5 is the Consent Agenda.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move that we approve the Consent Agenda with the revision of moving Item C to
7-C on the regular agenda and includes passing Resolutions 05-482, 05-483, 05-484,
05-485, and 05-486, and for the Mayor to sign and the clerk to attest on all proper
papers.
Wardle: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. The motion is to approve the Consent Agenda. I would like to make
special notation on Item 5-L, which is the Resolution 05-482. This resolution was
brought to you by the Mayor's Youth Advisory Council in support of the Blueprint for
Good Growth. Primarily, they wrote this resolution and they felt very strongly about the
efforts by the Blueprint and the need for original cooperation and so I just wanted to
make special notation of that. They took a bold step out of a comfort zone to endorse
this effort to you all. Mr. Berg, will you, please, call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, absent; Wardle, yea; Donnell, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 6:
.Department Reports:
A.
Finance Department - Stacy Kilchenmann
1.
FYO5 Budaet Amendment:
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Item No. 6-A is our Finance Department report. Stacy.
Kilchenmann: In front of you I gave you a handout that has the FY05 budget
amendment, which is what we are here to talk about tonight. I'm not going to go
through the entire detail of it, I'm going to try to make it understandable, which it's kind
of complicated. But the first ~~ we divided it up for ease of understanding by fund,
separating the Park Impact Fund and the Capital Improvement Fund out of the General
Fund, even though they are part of it, and so in the General Fund -- I will just start with
the bottom line, which is that we actually increased the budget by four hundred -- we
actually increased it by 800 -- by another 489,936 dollars. If you take out the fire station
expenditure and revenue -- and all that is is that we had budgeted revenue for the fire
station and expenditure for the fire station and it didn't happen, so we took it out, and we
won't rebudget it, because the rural fire is going to pay the contractors directly. The
other items that we actually increased the budget for, which are listed in the real small
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August 16, 2005
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tiny red print, we had the ability to increase our revenue to cover that, so the net effect,
bottom line, to the General Fund is revenues, balanced expenditures. So, we didn't go
into the fund balance. And we didn't -- when we do this, we don't increase the revenues
to the total amount that we will get, we just increase them to cover the expenditures.
So, I guess are there any questions on the General Fund side? Do you want me to go
through the details of the changes we made?
De Weerd: No, I don't think that will be necessary, Stacy.
Kilchenmann: Okay. The next fund is the Park Impact Fund and the bottom line for the
Park Impact Fund is that we did go into the fund balance by 202,429 dollars. In other
words, the amount that we were able to increase our revenues to increase -- to cover
those increased expenditures, weren't enough, so we still had to go into the fund
balance. And they are listed below, decisions that you have made throughout the year
for projects that we wanted to get completed. So, then, any questions about the Park
Impact Fund?
De Weerd: Any questions, Council?
Bird: I have none.
Kilchenmann: Then, the next one is the Special Services Fund, which is the building
department, economic development, and planning and zoning and one item that we did
that -- I don't -- I don't think you have talked about is economic development got 31,000
dollars in donations. So, we increased our revenue by that, because we hadn't
budgeted for it. I think that's going to be used for advertising, so we increased the
expenditures correspondingly. The rest of it is all increases for the increase in building
permit sales and the court -- well, the cost don't -- are less than revenues, so we just
increased the revenue to cover the cost. So, in the Special Services Fund there is no
net increase or decrease to the fund balance -- or there is no net decrease. So, any
questions on that one?
De Weerd: No.
Kilchenmann: Capital Improvement Fund there was no change. The Enterprise Fund,
the big impact to the Enterprise Fund is that we decided to pay the latecomers
expenditures -- we decided to pay the latecomers off, but our assessment revenue, we
were able to increase that so much that there was no impact and, additionally, we could
-- if you remember last year, we budgeted the used fund balance for some of the
Enterprise Fund projects. We were able to decrease the amount that we were getting
into the fund balance by 3.99 million dollars. The other big -- well, a bigger one or one
that we had as we increased the water meter expense, because we decided to use a
different kind of -- because of the growth and the need for the meter, again, that
revenue balances out with expenditures. In the capital outlay portion, there is just a lot
of transfers between projects. We also transferred -- water had excess carried forward
that they didn't need. Wastewater didn't have enough, so we made a transfer within
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August 16, 2005
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that fund from water to wastewater. The bottom line is we did -- there was 450,000
dollars in the capital outlay that wasn't covered -- that we couldn't cover by making
transfers and that was because of the decision to extend the North Black Cat Trunk.
So, the bottom line for the entire city is that we went from a 60 million -- a 60.7 million
dollar budget to 68.2 million dollar budget. That very bottom tiny number at the bottom
of the page. So, are there any questions about the Enterprise Fund?
De Weerd: Stacy, this format is much easier to follow. Appreciate that.
Kilchenmann: Hopefully some day we'll figure out -- we will just put it on more pages,
so the print is bigger.
Bird: Just keep it like this.
Kilchenmann: It will just be tinier and tinier.
Bird: No. No. Don't keep it tinier, just keep it this simple.
Kilchenmann: Okay. We try. We worked on it all day to make it simple.
Bird: I'm a simple person, so--
De Weerd: Any questions for Stacy?
Donnell: Good job.
De Weerd: Thank you. Stacy, I'm assuming we will need a motion from Council to
amend the budget.
Kilchenmann: Yes. Right, Will?
De Weerd: Mr. Berg.
Bird: I don't think so.
Berg: Madam Mayor, I don't know if you approve this, because we will have to have a
Public Hearing and, then, we will adopt an ordinance amending the budget, but you
could approve this recommendation tentatively to go into the Public Hearing. It's not
quite like we approve a tentative budget.
De Weerd: To put it up for public notice?
Berg: Correct.
Hearing.
But I do have to notice the amendments to the budget for the Public
De Weerd: So, you will just use this document to public notice the--
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August 16,2005
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Berg: Sure. And I would say a consensus of the Council to approve these
amendments to go into -- for the Public Hearing would be appropriate.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I'd move that we send this amended '05 -~ fiscal '05 budget forward to be publicly
heard on August 30th Public Hearing.
Donnell: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. Motion is to approve -- and Mr. Berg.
Berg: I'm sorry, Madam Mayor, but the day would have to be somewhere in September
6th or 13th. There is not enough days to notice it properly, so it will not be --
Bird: I'll change that from August 30th to September 6th.
Donnell: Second concurs.
De Weerd: Okay. Motion to -- so, September 6th is the date and that's plenty of time,
Will?
Berg: Yes, Madam Mayor: I have two weeks to notice it. Yes.
De Weerd: Okay. All those in favor say aye. Okay. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
B.
Planning and Zoning Department - Anna Canning
1.
Reauest for Waiver of Fence Waiver Application Fees for
Ryan Warwick:
De Weerd: Item 6-B is our Planning and Zoning Director, which we have taken out the
zoning part. It's our planning department.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the request before you is to waive a
fence -- waive the application fee. And that fee is 50 dollars. The issue -- well, I don't
want to get into the issue, because it -- you might see it again. But it's -- the fence is
located on Wingate Lane. Through other public testimony it was brought to our
attention that perhaps this fence didn't meet the setback requirements. Code
enforcement went out, checked it, it's 18 and a half feet from the right of way, instead of
20 feet. The property owners that are there purchased the house with the fence. They
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August 16,2005
Page 8 of 58
have agreed to submitting the application, but they are asking for a waiver of the 50
dollar fee and the zoning ordinance gives -- only gives Council the authority to waive
fees, so --
De Weerd: Okay. And, Anna, do you have a recommendation?
Canning: Given that they obtained a building permit for this and the building permit was
-- or the fence did pass inspection, yes, I would recommend waiving the fee.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Council, any questions?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Anna, as I understand, our department went out there and inspected this fence
after it was constructed; right?
Canning: Yes, sir. And we did check with the building department. Apparently the
building department checks the structural integrity of the fence, not as to whether it
meets the setbacks. That may be something we need to discuss with them, I think.
Bird: Isn't that part of -- isn't that part of your application is the setbacks and
everything?
Canning: You know, I have never actually seen a fence application for the city, but it
should include setbacks, because that's definitely part of the code, is that they have to
be 20 feet back. .
Bird: I was one of the fortunate ones that got to sit on the fence committee for about
three years and it is part of it.
De Weerd: Well, Council, any further discussion should be held -- if there is an appeal,
you will be hearing this, so --
Bird: Okay. Madam Mayor, I will make a motion that we waive the 50 dollar fee for Mr.
Warwick on 2642 North Lapis Avenue in Packard Acres Subdivision No.2.
Wardle: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. The motion is to approve the waiver of the fee. All those in favor say
aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
c.
Parks and Recreation Department - Doug Strong
Meridian City Council
August 16,2005
Page 9 of 58
1.
Update on Messina Meadows Parks and Recreation
Decision:
De Weerd: Okay. Item 6-C. Mr. Strong.
Strong: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. At our August 10th Parks
and Recreation Commission meeting we had the developer's representative for the
Messina Meadows Subdivision and the neighborhood park that's being proposed in that
subdivision come before the commission and discuss the proposed park in that
subdivision and answer questions and concerns that the commission had. Following
some lengthy discussion and being able to answer their concerns regarding drainage
issues and quality of land issues with the proposed park, the commission voted to
recommend that the city accept the neighborhood park as a city park. So, that's what
I'm bringing forward to you tonight is their recommendation. With this ~- I may add, that
the developer -- developer's proposal is to donate the land and the green up of the park.
De Weerd: Okay.
Strong: And that would have to be identified in the agreement later developed by our
attorney's office.
De Weerd: Mr. Baird, I guess Council discussed this last week and still decided to
maintain the same course.
Baird: Correct. Madam Mayor and Members of the Council, you did have a request for
reconsideration from the parks commission, who discussed the matter the day after you
heard this as a Council. It was your decision as a group to not act on that request for
reconsideration and to approve the findings as written, which did not include accepting
the park as a city park. All that you have before you, really, is a report from the park's
board that they have received more information and that their minds were changed that
they believe now with the additional information, that this site does fit the current
Comprehensive Plan for neighborhood parks. So, if you do nothing, your decision will
stand. If you want to have staff fulfill the recommendation, if you want to adopt the
recommendation of the park's board, all that we would be looking for is a motion for staff
to bring forward property amendments such that at the time the final plat is signed, that
we would have agreement in place that would bring this -- the park into the city, deeded
to the city as a city park.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Council, any discussion?
Donnell: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Donnell.
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August 16,2005
Page 10 of 58
Donnell: Mr. Strong, when the developers met with the parks commission, did they
speak to the placement of the park in that development?
Strong: Madam Mayor, Councilwoman Donnell, they did and the location of the park in
the development fits the Comprehensive Plan that recommends a neighborhood park
be in the center of the neighborhood and they pointed -- they made reference to the
Comprehensive Plan guidelines that were followed for the placement of the park.
Donnell: Thank you.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Doug, how did the quality -- the drainage and quality of land change? Did they
stay on the same eight-acre area or not? I didn't -- I was not here when this was
passed, so how did that change in a month?
Strong: Madam Mayor, Councilman Bird, actually, the park remains where it was
initially proposed. The drainage system that they are using out in that area -- and I don't
-- I don't recall what they call it, but it's the -- alongside the road there is --
Bird: Swale.
Strong: -- the swales that apparently are part of the design to take the drainage away
from the area and the land quality issues were addressed satisfactorily with the
commission, so--
Wardle: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: Mr. Strong, I'm trying to recall the discussion at the Council level, but I don't
believe we ever discussed specifically the quality of the piece of property. We focused
mainly on location, amenity, and those sorts of things. And so were there any of those
types of discussions at the parks commission level?
Strong: Madam Mayor, Councilman Wardle, there were -- and, actually, the July Parks
and Recreation Commission meeting when we went into executive session, there was
some concern expressed about the quality of the land, which I thought came from
Council discussion, but I don't know whether Councilwoman Donnell can recall that
discussion or not, but it came up in -- in that executive session discussion and --
Donnell: It did.
Strong: -- I don't know that the detail --
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August 16,2005
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De Weerd: I think probably the whole site was of concern, because of the high water
table. There -- I believe in the letter from the Parks and Recreation Commission, they
all cited concerns of the housing on the west side. They also suggested that there was
some land that seemed more appropriate to a setback or buffer that was being used as
park land credit. So, I think they had indicated a number of issues that they had
concerns with, so they feel comfortable that all of those issues have been addressed
without any redesign.
Strong: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, they did talk about redesign and there
was a lot of discussion around moving the park elsewhere and so forth. But the
developer's representative I think addressed those questions to resolve their concerns
and also expressed that at this point in the process that a redesign of where the park
would go in the development would not be a practical way for them to go, just because
of the cost that they have already put into the development of the property, so --
Bird: Madam Mayor, can I ask another question?
De Weerd: Uh-huh. Mr. Bird.
Bird: Doug, what -- now, on this park, we are going to -- we are proposing to take it
over -- or the parks commission is. Who is going to -- are we just going to green it or
are we going to have a tot lot in there -- what are we going to have in there and who is
responsible for doing that?
Strong: Madam Mayor, Councilman Bird, what's being proposed is that -- again, that
the land would be donated to the city and the green up, which means irrigation system,
grass, curb, gutter, sidewalk, I believe, and, then, all the hard-scape, restrooms, shelter,
playground, basketball court or tennis court, whatever other hard-scape features would
go in the park, would be at the city's expense. However, the developer would be
interested in building them and some agreement with park impact fee payout, however
that could be arranged.
Bird: Are they getting impact fee credits for that eight acres?
Strong: No.
Bird: They are just donating the land and, then, they will be glad to work with us and
build for us at their cost.
Donnell: Yeah.
Strong: Yes.
De Weerd: Donating the land, greening it up, is -- did they address parking? Because
parking was also an issue.
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August 16,2005
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Strong: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, we didn't -- we didn't talk specifically
about parking and design, that's a design consideration that I think we can certainly
address as we finalize a park design for where things are placed and whether -- I think
their initial proposal was that on-street parking would be the way to go there, because of
the length of street frontage they have, but I think there is concerns about that, I believe,
and possible zoning compliance issues with that. So, it would be a matter of a parking
lot inside the park, like we have with our other neighborhood parks. The reason they
were proposing on-street parking, I think, was to leave more green space in the park,
thinking that there would be adequate parking spaces along the street to, essentially,
keep more available to the neighborhood as far as just green space. But that's a design
issue that I think we'd need to address as we build the park.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Mr. Strong, there was also a
question about whether it would be parallel parking, which we would normally see on
that kind of street, or pull in 90 degree parking or angled parking and that's where the
zoning concerns came in, if it was going to be something other than a parallel parking,
that's when we were concerned. But we hadn't heard about it or addressed it yet.
Strong: That's correct. There is space inside the park, certainly, to develop a parking
lot, like we do with all our other neighborhood parks. I think what was being proposed
by the developer that we may have the opportunity with this particular site to leave more
green space in the park, if we could find other alternative parking on the street.
Donnell: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mrs. Donnell.
Donnell: So, just a point of clarification if the city accepts this as a neighborhood park,
then, we really are the ones that design what the park looks like, what it does, how
parking is handled -- that's the city's decision and not the developer's?
Strong: That's correct.
Donnell: So, with that, if the city were to decide that they wanted to include parking in
what is proposed as green space, rather than street parking, would the development still
meet the green space percentage requirement?
Canning: Madam Mayor, Member of the Council, Councilmember Donnell, I don't have
the numbers in front of me, but I'm guessing that it still would. I'm pretty sure it was
over ten percent, so --
Donnell: It was. Thank you.
Strong: I believe it's eight and a half acres that they are proposing. That's a pretty good
size neighborhood park.
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August 16, 2005
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Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Bird.
Bird: One other question, Doug. An eight and a half acre park in the middle of a large
subdivision, who does that really benefit?
Strong: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, and Councilman Bird, actually, in our
Comprehensive Plan description of the neighborhood park, it -- the neighborhood park
is recommended to go in the center of the neighborhood to serve primarily the
neighborhood in a -- in I think a mild radius of that neighborhood. So, it's not intended
to serve certainly a regional need or anything, but primarily the neighborhood, and that's
going to be a fairly substantial size neighborhood.
Bird: And that's what I'm getting at is the fact that we've got some little neighborhood
parks around here and it isn't financially feasible for us to run around and take care of.
The homeowners have done it. In our night out in August -- the first of August, we got
to see a couple of real nice little neighborhood parks that not only act as a nicer
greened up neighborhood park, but also as a drainage field, and it's -- they are ran by
the homeowners association and unless something was to change or -- you know, if it
was a 30 or 40 acre park that the whole community would be involved in, like a Bear
Creek or Tully or something like that, I could understand it, but just an eight and a half
acre park inside, I think, we would be better off to leave it to the homeowners and the
developer and let them do it, let them take care of it.
De Weerd: As it is that is--
Bird: That's the way I understand it.
De Weerd: -- where we are at. Anna, I guess you're somewhat disadvantaged,
because you don't have this in front of you, but did they not have any amenities planned
for that park?
Canning: No. They had another private recreation area just across the street that had
the homeowners association pool and, then, they had a number of walking trails and
other open space. I'm sure that just the quantity of open space was okay and, then,
they had amenities elsewhere. I remember specifically where the pool site was. I don't
remember if they had another tot lot or anything like that. I don't think they did. I
remember they were going to improve the canal along the north of the property, so that
it was open and a nice running kind of creek type thing.
Donnell: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Donnell.
Meridian City Council
August 16,2005
Page 14 of 58
Donnell: I certainly concur with Councilman Bird in terms of who it really serves, but --
so I have wrestled with this over time -~ little short time that I have been on the Council
and as I thought about these parks that become, essentially, neighborhood parks, I
have had the concern that, again, the homeowners around that park think that it belongs
to them and not to anyone else. But, on the other hand, these parks serve a purpose to
provide that kind of space, instead of those folks going to another park that is perhaps
more regional in nature. Am I making much sense? So, we are taking, you know, a
group of people from -- that might otherwise take advantage of a regional park and
providing closer area for them to take advantage of. So, I have kind of come around in
my thinking about these parks. But I do want to ask Mr. Strong one more question and
that is I know that Elroy attends the commission meeting and I was unable to attend this
last time, so, you know, I didn't listen to the discussion, but does he feel, as park
superintendent, that that one more small park is able for the city to manage and
maintain and include in their acres of park?
Strong: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Councilwoman Donnell, he sees no
problem with maintaining this park and, actually, I think maybe a way to draw a parallel
that -- kind of what you're describing is that I live in between Chateau Park and Tully
Park and those two parks serve dramatically different purposes for that area of town.
Chateau Park, if you want a quiet place to go and picnic is much more desirable than
going to Tully Park, particularly when there is a lot of skateboarders and baseball
games and people playing basketball and volleyball and all the things that -- it's a much
more active park. So, the intent of the different parks, neighborhood, regional parks,
community parks, is to serve different purposes certainly. And that's how this one was
addressed in the planning phase was to serve a neighborhood and it fits the criteria in
our Comprehensive Plan to do that, so --
Donnell: Okay. Thank you.
De Weerd: Council, I don't know if it will be beneficial, but, you know, this park is part of
the plan and it's going to be built one way or the other. I guess what we gain as a public
park should also -- you should have information on what the cost is to our taxpayers to
maintain the park and weigh the benefits and the cost. If you would desire that, we
certainly can come back or certainly -- I don't need to give you permission to make a
decision, but if you want more information, certainly we can get that for you as well.
Wardle: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: I feel -- actually feel very sorry for the developer at this stage of the game. We
have had a number of decisions. This Council enjoyed the overall scope and feel of the
subdivision, approved it based on what we saw. Left the decision up to the commission,
came forward with a recommendation, that the city not take the park and, then, went
back. And so I'm a little concerned with that and would like Director Strong to look at
our process for future subdivisions that would be planning these sorts of things. I think
Meridian City Council
August16,2005
Page 15 of 58
that if we had had foresight on this, we wouldn't be here today certainly. I haven't seen
anything today that would -- that is different than our discussion last week and one of
the other Council members who had a stronger opinion, I feel, of where that park was
situated and so if you'd like to provide further information to the Council when we have a
full compliment Council to discuss that, it would be my preference to not take action this
evening on the recommendation from the commission.
De Weerd: Okay. Do we need to bring the development agreement back just for that
piece of consideration? Is that appropriate, Mr. Baird?
Baird: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, again, if this Council takes no action,
everything's in place for the development to go forward and the property in question will
be a private park for the subdivision. So, if you want to put off your decision, request
more information, if you want to hear from the developer, get the same presentation that
the park board commission got, you can certainly do that. So, the realm of things for
you to direct that you want to see is before you, but all we'd need to change direction is
a motion from the Council.
De Weerd: Okay. Council?
Wardle: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: Certainly, again -- and not to belabor the point, but I feel that especially since
we are looking at a donation by an individual and that it would -- if we could find it
appropriate in some part of our process, Mr. Baird, to bring forward again for additional
information which we didn't hear in our past hearing and which we haven't been privy to
via the parks commission, all we have in front of us is two sentences as far as the parks
commission. I'd like to hear a little bit more about why they changed their mind and how
they feel it will benefit the community.
De Weerd: Okay. Well, I will ask that staff bring back on the agenda the development
agreement, ask the -- invite the developer to, please, join us to give the same response
that he gave to our parks commission to the Council and, as well, if he can bring a fiscal
analysis of this park property and what the cost will be, that would be good, too.
Strong: Okay.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Strong: Thank you.
Item 7.
Items Moved from Consent Agenda:
Meridian City Council
August16,2005
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c.
Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: AZ 05-
023 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 39.47 acres from RUT
to C-N zone for Cherry Lane Christian Church by BRS Architects
- NWC of Ten Mile Road and Franklin Road:
De Weerd: Okay. Item C was moved from the Consent Agenda, so we do have an e-
mail from Steve Pardeau in front of you, item with clarification. Anna, do you need to
make comment on any of these items?
Canning: I can make -- Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I can make comment
on items one and three. There are two Exhibit C's attached. One follows Exhibit D. I'm
not sure that -- it appears to be an old copy of Exhibit C. So, the first Exhibit C would be
correct. And, then, regarding the incorrect name. Of course, they are right, they are
Cherry Lane Christian Church and not Presbyterian of Boise.
De Weerd: Okay. And, Len, do you have a comment on item two?
Grady: Madam Mayor, we have been in negotiations with the church for -- off and on
for several months to try to get easements put through there and it's always been our
intention that the city go ahead and construct the sewer line through their property, so
that we can meet ACHD's deadlines for paving Ten Mile and Franklin, so --
De Weerd: Okay.
Grady: That hasn't changed, to my knowledge.
De Weerd: But that can be clarified as well.
Grady: Yeah.
De Weerd: So, as the changes are not major, Mr. Baird, can Council go ahead and
move on this with the changes?
Baird: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, that's correct. These are merely
clarifications, so you can make a motion to adopt that item with the clarifications that
you have discussed on the record this evening.
De Weerd: Okay. Okay. Council?
Wardle: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: I move that we adopt Item 7C, with the recommended changes that we have
discussed on the record this evening.
Meridian City Council
August 16,2005
Page 17 of 58
Donnell: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. Motion to approve. Mr. Berg, will you, please, call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, absent; Wardle, yea; Donnell, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 8:
Item 9:
Item 10:
Item 11:
Reauest for Reconsideration of Silver Oaks Subdivision Annexation /
Rezone Request and the accompanying Preliminary Plat and detailed
Conditional Use Permit Applications:
Order for Denial: AZ 05-016 Request for Annexation and Zoning of
28.65 acres from RUT to R-15 and L-O zones for Silver Oaks
Subdivision by Charter Builders, Inc. - north of West Franklin Road and
west of North Ten Mile Road:
Order for Denial: CUP 05-024 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for
a Planned Development for multi-family / clubhouse I office / daycare
development with no minimum street frontage and multiple buildings on a
single lot on 28.65 acres in proposed R-15 and L-O zones for Silver Oaks
Subdivision by Charter Builders, Inc. - north of West Franklin Road and
west of North Ten Mile Road:
Order for Denial: PP 05-023 Request for Preliminary Plat approval for 1
multi-family residential building lot and 1 commercial office lot on 28.6
acres in proposed R-15 & L-O zones for Silver Oaks Subdivision by
Conger Management Group - west of Ten Mile Road and north of West
Franklin Road:
De Weerd: Okay. Item No.8 is a request for reconsideration. Mr. Baird or Anna, who
is opening on this?
Canning: Madam Mayor, I do not have a presentation prepared.
applicant does those, if Council wants to hear from them.
Generally, the
Baird: And Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, if I could just add a little bit of
procedural groundwork here. You do have a letter from the applicant's representative
requesting reconsideration. According to the Robert's rules, the reconsideration can be
granted only if the motion is made by one of the individuals who was the moving party
and last week the motion was to deny and it's my understanding that Councilmember
Bird and Councilmember Rountree were the two individuals who voted in the affirmative
on the motion to deny. So, those are the two individuals who could, in fact, request to
grant this reconsideration. If there is no motion, then, we go forward to Items 9, 10 and
11 for you to act on tonight.
Meridian City Council
August 16,2005
Page 18 of 58
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. So, you do have a letter of reconsideration requested in
front of you. Mr. Bird, I guess if you would entertain that or if you would like the --
Bird: I'll listen to the developer, if it's okay with you, Mayor.
De Weerd: Okay. Would the representative like to come forward?
McKinnon: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Dave McKinnon, 735
South Crosstimber. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to talk tonight. I wasn't
sure we would have that opportunity. Last time I tried to be brief and I don't think we
had an opportunity to discuss all the issues that were relevant in the project that was
brought before you. I know there is some concerns -- concerns that were voiced by
members of the Council and we have gotten together and we have looked over those
concerns, we have talked about the Comprehensive Plan and what it means to the City
of Meridian and how this piece of property relates to the Comprehensive Plan and
possibilities for redevelopment of that piece of property in a manner other than high
density. We talked about the density of this project and we agreed that we could come
down in density and we decided that we could remove three -- seven, actually, units
from this project, which would drop the density from 12.5 11.5 units to the acre. We
know that there has been a number of projects in Meridian that Meridian has not been
happy with that are of four-plex project variety. I could name a few for you. The project
behind B&D Supply. I believe there is probably not a positive response to what's
happened in front of Mountain View High and possibly the project that's happening at
Ten Mile and Pine. In designing this project, we looked at those and we decided those
were not something that we wanted to emulate in the city. Those were not projects that
we wanted to reproduce in the City of Meridian after there has already been a number
of projects like that. So, we decided to take the aspects that they didn't have and
incorporate those into our project by incorporating more open space, actually providing
an amenity package that would include a club house, a theater, 3,200 square foot, a
large park area that's centrally located, pathways, a larger percentage of open space
within the project and to try to provide a mix of uses as well with the office uses that are
next to the medium to higher density project. We also realize that the elevations that
have been presented to you have not necessarily always been built. The elevations
that we presented as part of our Conditional Use Permit included a large percentage of
the area which windows were facing, so they don't have a barracks appearance. There
is a large percentage of glazing on both the front, rear, and side facing elevations. I
have copies of those tonight. If you wanted me to present those to you I could show
those to you again. We could put them on the overhead if it's available. We felt that
after touring those other areas, that this product would actually be a much nicer product
than the product that you have already seen. We have been working closely with the
church. You should have also received a letter from the church, the Cherry Lane
Christian Church, that was the project that you just recently discussed that wasn't the
Presbyterian church. We have been working with them closely and providing a shared
use of the utilities, the water and sewer services would be jointly coming through the
Silver Oaks project and, then, through Cherry Lane project and easements would be
granted for both projects through this, as Len pointed out earlier tonight. There was
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August 16, 2005
Page 19 of 58
some concerns, I believe, that were voiced, but not necessarily discussed a great deal
about the traffic. There was a traffic study that was prepared for this project and there
was also a traffic study that would take into consideration the issues that were brought
up with the church and their large parking lot, where they believe they will have 2,000
people in attendance. Their volume of traffic is much greater than the volume of traffic
created by this project and we believe that -- we have worked with your staff, staff is in
support of this project and we have worked well with your staff on this project. And the
Planning and Zoning Commission, the only major issue was whether or not we should
have a public street that went east-west through this project and we agree that it should
be a public street and provide a cross-access or basically a stub street to the property to
the west, which is also high density in nature. In working with the church and with
ACHD, there has been some discussion and it's also included in the ACHD report for
the church that in the future this main access road would be shared between the two
projects, would be a location, possibly, for a future traffic signal and that would be in
benefit to both projects, but it's also one of those requirements that's based upon
meeting warrants and traffic warrants and one of the ways to meet that traffic warrant is
to have a volume of traffic at different times of the day, not just on Wednesday nights
and Sunday, youth meetings and Sunday mornings, that you would have with the
church. So, this would be something that would be jointly beneficial to everybody
together. I know that Commissioner -- or Councilman Rountree is not here tonight and,
Keith, it is a burden on you to make a motion one way or the other. I know that nobody
else has that opportunity. We have tried to do what we can for the city. The city has
come forward and said this is what we'd like to see here and we have tried to provide
the city with what they have asked for. We have tried to provide more open space and
provide something that's of benefit to the city. This Comprehensive Plan was put
together to provide this -- this is a higher density housing in a location that would be
beneficial to the city. It will be located near an intersection that will be greatly improved
in the future at Franklin and Ten Mile and be directly -- just I guess directly north of the
Ten Mile interchange. With that I'd ask if you have any questions of me on this. Please
consider our request for reconsideration tonight.
Bird: Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
McKinnon: Do you have any questions for me?
Bird: I have none.
McKinnon: Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Meridian City Council
August 16, 2005
Page 20 of 58
Bird: Seeings how I'm the only one that can bring forward a deal -- a motion to accept
this or deny this request for reconsideration, with Councilman Rountree not here, I
would definitely move that we reconsider the Silver Oaks Subdivision annexation,
rezoning request, and the preliminary plat and conditional use applications and that
would be Items 8, 9,10 and 11 on our agenda.
Wardle: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. So, this is just for a reconsideration.
Bird: Yes.
De Weerd: And to put it back on the agenda for public comment.
Bird: Madam Mayor, if I could?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Bird.
Bird: This in no way -- I just feel that with Councilman Rountree not here, that we
should come back for a reconsideration, because I don't know how Councilman
Rountree's ideal is and it no way means that -- that I personally am in approval of it
again, it's just a way of letting the developer come back and bring back new ideas and
stuff, because my biggest concern was the density.
De Weerd: Thank you. We have a motion to place it back on the agenda. Do we need
a date certain, Will?
Berg: Madam Mayor, I would just instruct me to put it as a public hearing as soon as we
get any corrected documents that we could do as part of the application process.
De Weerd: Okay.
Berg: It think the applicant understands that whatever is -- new sketches and new
arrangements or whatever, that we would want to get it out to the agencies and such, as
well as our departments and the public property owners.
De Weerd: I don't need a roll call on this, do I?
Berg: It's always good to have a roll call.
De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Berg.
Berg: Especially when we had a denial motion before.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, absent; Wardle, yea; Donnell, yea.
Meridian City Council
August 16,2005
Page 21 of 58
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 12:
Item 13:
Item 14:
Item 15:
FP 05-051 Request for Final Plat approval for 39 single-family residential
building lots and 1 common area lot on 8.75 acres in an R-8 zone for
Paramount Subdivision No.9 by Paramount Development, Inc. - north
of East McMillan Road and west of North Meridian Road:
FP 05-050 Request for Final Plat approval for 72 single-family residential
building lots and 14 common lots on 17.88 acres in a R-8 zone for
Chesterfield Subdivision No.1 by Centennial Development, LLC - east
of North Black Cat Road and south of West Pine Avenue:
FP 05-053 Request for Final Plat approval for 3 commercial building lots
on 11.28 acres in a R-8 zone for Champion Park Subdivision No.4 by
Hillview Development Corporation - west of North Eagle Road and north
of East Ustick Road:
FP 05-052 Request for Final Plat approval for 81 single family residential
building lots and 5 common lots on 20.25 acres in a R-8 zone for Ventana
Subdivision No.2 by Ventana, LLC - north of McMillan Road on
Meridian Road:
De Weerd: Okay. So, that went through our Items 8, 9, 10 and 11. So, Items 12
through 15. Anna, do we have any that are not in agreement by the developers?
Canning: No, Madam Mayor, I do not, but I need to clarify for the record on Champion
Park Subdivision, the letter from the applicant requests that we remove the condition for
a rezone and staff is in agreement with that condition. It sounds like more than what it
is. I had put that in there after consulting with Mrs. McKay, but, then, she consulted her
client and the client didn't want to agree to that. So, we are fine taking it out.
De Weerd: Okay. That was Champion Park?
Canning: Champion Park. Did I not say that?
Bird: Yes.
De Weerd: I don't know. I thought I heard champagne. Maybe I'm somewhere else
tonight. Okay. Is the representative here on that one item? And in agreement? Okay.
Okay. I would consider a motion on Items 12, 13, 14 and 15.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Meridian City Council
August 16,2005
Page 22 of 58
Bird: I move we approve FP 05-051, FP 05-050, FP 05-053, with the change as noted
by the Planning and Zoning director, FP 05-052.
Wardle: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. The motion is to approve Items 12 through 15 with the amendment
on Item 14. If there is no further discussion, Mr. Berg, will you call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, absent; Wardle, yea; Donnell, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 16:
Item 17:
Item 18:
Public Hearing: AZ 05-019 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 10.9
acres from RUT to C-G zone for Dorado Subdivision by Kimball
Properties, LLC - NWC of South Eagle Road and East Overland Road:
Public Hearing: PP 05-024 Request for Preliminary Plat approval for 16
commercial building lots on 10.9 acres in a proposed C-G zone for
Dorado Subdivision by Kimball Properties, LLC - NWC of South Eagle
Road and East Overland Road:
Public Hearing: CUP 05-031 Request for conceptual approval of a
Conditional Use Permit for a Planned Development for approximately
110,000 square feet of hotel, commercial, retail and restaurant uses
(some with drive-thru windows) in a proposed C-G zone for Dorado
Subdivision by Kimball Properties, LLC - northwest corner of South
Eagle Road and East Overland Road:
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Items 16, 17 and 18 are public hearings on AZ 05-019,
PP 05-024, and CUP 05-031. I will open these public hearings with staff comments.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council -- here we go. This project is Dorado
Subdivision. It's located at the northwest corner of Eagle and Overland Road. And the
applications that are before you tonight are annexation and zoning, preliminary plat, and
conditional use approval for a planned development. The annexation and zoning is of
10.9 acres from RUT to a C-G zone. And the preliminary plat approval is for 16
commercial lots. The planned development is to allow a mix of hotel, commercial, retail
and restaurant uses and some of those would have drive-thru facilities. There we go.
The approximate square footage of commercial or mixed uses that will go on here is
about 110,000 square feet. And as I said before, there would be 16 building pads. We
do have a letter from the applicant on this one clarifying some details with regard to the
staff report and the conditions of approval and we are in agreement with those
clarifications, they just are stated in a different way. Part of the -- sorry. Okay. The
Planning and Zoning Commission recommended approval at their July 7th hearing.
There were two neighboring property owners that testified at the hearing and that was
Gale Sasser and Becky McKay for Engineering Solutions spoke for Don Hutt and they
Meridian City Council
August 16, 2005
Page 23 of 58
are both neighboring properties within the subdivision immediately to the east. One
lives here in this corner and one lives immediately adjacent to the L portion of the
subject property. The key issues of discussion at the Planning and Zoning Commission
were the landscaping of the gateway corridors along Eagle and along Overland and the
fencing of the perimeter next to the residential area. These are currently residential
uses, although this is very much a transitional neighborhood in that residential area.
They also talked about the number and types of uses for the site, the flood plane
designation and construction. There is some flood plane issues at the north end of the
property, although the applicant has done some engineered fill to bring up the level of
the site, as I understand it. There was also discussion about lighting and setbacks of
buildings and, then, a requirement of the development agreement for lots not subject to
conditional use approval. And I'll briefly describe that issue, that currently these are
residential uses, so, normally, we would see a much wider buffer between land uses
along this whole western and perimeter. Because the area is in such flux, most of it has
already been bought up by industrial developers or commercial developers, so that
there was a -- very much a question as to what an appropriate buffer was in that area.
What the planning commission has forwarded in their recommendation is that certain
properties be subject to conditional use approval, so that they can resolve that issue,
particularly with this last remaining residence here, at the time of CU approval as to
whether a wider buffer should be appropriate. One of the proposed uses on the site is a
hotel and we do have some elevations of that. You can see some of the building pads
here. This is the hotel. There are a couple of outstanding issues before Council. The
applicant has recently -- recently had an opportunity to acquire some additional -- some
left over right of ways from ACHD. They have more on Eagle Road and Overland Road
than they currently need and were willing to vacate that. The applicant originally came
to us wanting to amend the preliminary plat to reflect those new boundaries and I'm very
concerned with that, because we don't have the consent of ACHD to change the plat at
this time. What I don't have a problem with, though, is if Council would like to -- if the
Council would like to base the setbacks off of the eventual boundary when the final plat
comes in, I think that we can -- can make those adjustments and do that at the final plat
stage, just understanding that the buffers would be measured not from the current
property line, but if the property line goes out 12 feet, then, we could measure the buffer
from the current -- or the future property line. So, that was the one remaining issue.
There were some left over issues regarding amenities. The applicant has not proposed
any amenities as part of the PD and one of the concerns was that they would present
those to Council tonight for suitable -- amenities suitable to this project. With that I will
let the -- I'm just trying to read what Mr. Seal just handed me. It basically just talks still
about the right of way and ACHD, but I'll let Mr. Seal describe the project more to you.
Answer any questions you may have.
De Weerd: Council, any questions for staff at this time?
Bird: I have none, Mayor.
De Weerd: Now, Anna, this is a gateway corridor, so they are meeting the -- and that is
why it's 35 feet?
Meridian City Council
August 16,2005
Page 24 of 58
Canning: It is 35 feet. They did ask for alternative compliance along Eagle Road. They
have this right-in, right-out and they asked that the width of that right-in, right-out be
included within the 35 feet. So, you're not -- you're getting closer to I think 15 to 20 feet
here, because of the long right-in, right-out lane.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Mr. Seal. And since I just called you forward, I still need
your name and address.
Seal: And I'm going to give it to you. Jonathan Seal, W.H. Moore Company, 1940
Bonito, Meridian. What I'd like to do first is just give you a little bit of overview of the
project. Some of it may be a little bit redundant. I think Grandview Station -- we feel
very proud of. We think it's going to be one of the focal points in Meridian. We think it's
going to be a real asset to the community. Winston purchased this land in the spring
and the response in this project has been extremely encouraging. We think it's going to
be one of the center points for both food, lodging, banking, and to a limited degree
residential -- or retail. I'm sorry. This right here is a resident -- or it's a Marriott hotel. It
is a residence suites type of thing. It's the type where people stay over four, five, seven
days. It's an apartment-type complex. The firm that bid it recently completed the one at
the mall, so if you're familiar with that. They have constructed 47 of these facilities
throughout the United States, so they are well qualified to do we think a very well -- a
quality project. Marriott has approved this project, so it's well beyond just it could
happen, it will happen. We anticipate sometime in the spring on this project, if not
sooner. Also down in this corner Sterling Bank has made a commitment to do a 5,000
square foot facility. If you're not familiar with Sterling Bank, they are fairly new within
the area, they have got about 1,700 employees. They have got 135 branches. And
they got over seven billion dollars in assets. We are looking at a 5,000 square foot
facility. They will have clock towers on it. It's going to be a very attractive project. As
you look at these facilities here, we are talking to quite a few restaurants. I think most of
them would be familiar, probably in many cases you might have even eaten at those. At
this point, because we haven't finalized the deal, I'd rather not share it at this point, but
suffice it to say it's more than just simple discussion, they are very serious, they have
made a commitment, it's just working out the details. We have also found over here we
have several restaurants that are interested in this area and, again, the same thing, we
are well down the road on those. As far as these buildings over here, we have nothing
specific for that or for this in this area right here. So, if I can, I'd just like to touch on -- a
little bit on the residential. And, Anna, if you could flip back to one that shows the lots.
No. There is one there that shows the various lots on Loder.
Canning: Oh. Okay.
Seal: There. This, again, is Grandview Station. These are also lots down here. Just to
give you a little bit of background, as they say, this is a residential area in transition, but
it is, yes, a residential area. I think even staff has acknowledged that. Winston Moore
has purchased this home. In fact, this closed about a month ago. He's made a very
attractive offer to Mr. Bill Juris, who owns this home right here. We believe that Bill is
Meridian City Council
August 16, 2005
Page 25 of 58
going to accept that. We sat down face to face. Right now he's just contemplating
where he wants to go and what he wants to do. Mr. Sasser lives in this house and Mr.
Sasser is here tonight. I know he will be speaking. We have met with Mr. Sasser. He
was at the last hearing and Winston and I met with him a while ago. I think we have
addressed most of his concerns, but, obviously, he's still got a few and he certainly will
get up here. Mr. Hutt was also another one. His representative is here. I e-mailed Mr.
Hutt and told him if he still had any concerns, that we were pleased to sit down and talk
with him. I did not hear anything back from him, so I don't know. Ron Van Auker owns
these three and at least I have heard -- and I can't tell you exactly, but I believe he might
have acquired this property right here. As you know, with the Comprehensive Plan, this
is mixed use regional, so it's only a short period of time before this will all be developed.
But, as I say, right now we recognize the fact it is residential. Winston is aware of that
and we would certainly acknowledge it. If I could flip back to the concept plan, please.
As I mentioned to you, I sent you another letter today and it's a little bit of a repeat of a
letter I sent back on July 26th, but in going through the staff report, it seemed like most
of the things that were approved there, but they seemed to be in various areas and I
guess maybe my own simple thinking, I like to see everything kind of on one page,
which is maybe a little bit reaching. So, what I wanted to do was set out what we
understand from P&Z and at least what we believe in talking to staff what has been
approved. And as mentioned to you, Anna said over in these particular lots it doesn't
show the specific lots, but, essentially, in this area that we have agreed to a specific CU
or Conditional Use Permit for these buildings. We also agree to -- and as we at least
understood that this would be a five foot landscaped area. When it got into this area,
we had -- and as I spelled out, there were three options. One we could put up a bond
for this area. Two, we could go ahead and landscape it. And, then, at the time that
these came in for CU's -- and I have qualified that, that's as long as this is residential. If
these are no longer residential, that condition is void. But as long as these are
residential, then, we would go with the alternative compliance for landscaping, which
would be the fencing, the additional trees, and other various landscaping in there.
Along here we asked for -- also for alternative compliance. I received from ACHD
approval for a right-in only off of Eagle Road. What we -- what we had asked for was
that the sidewalk right now kind of continues to this point. What I'm suggesting is at this
point the sidewalk would probably go into the berm, at least that's our vision, and what
we have asked for is that this right-in only, plus the sidewalk, would be considered part
of the 35 foot wide berm. But in consideration for that, we will enhance our landscaping
along here and as -- well, I'll get to that later. Also, with the hotel we asked for a height
variance from 40 to 60 feet. We asked for the right for drive-thrus throughout this thing.
I know the new zoning ordinance will allow drive-thrus, but we felt we would just cover it
all. So, we -- I think those things are spelled out. The only other clarification is over
here. Right now there is a 20-foot wide strip, which is part of Loder. It's part of what's
called the Overland Sub Homeowners Association. Our understanding is that there is
20 feet there. They are asking for 25. We would simply have to add an additional five
feet of landscaping along there to satisfy that. Otherwise, throughout here we are going
to have 35 feet. Also 35 feet through here. We are looking at signage in different
areas, which I think will create a real interest for the whole project also. This, as I say,
is a rightÞin only. This is a right-in, right-out. And this one right here is a full access
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August 16,2005
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point. They are fixed by ACHD. At least this one, in particular, is. A couple other things
that I would like to talk about is the amenities. We did back on -- in fact, I will pass it
out. We did, back on July 28th -- well, I guess -- let me back up and give a little bit of
history. Back when we -- after P&Z, I did meet with Anna and Joe and Anna had
suggested an amenity over in this area that we would be, shall we say, kind of in
proximity to what we envisioned might be two restaurants or eating facilities. She was
looking for something I think it was of reasonable size that would accommodate a lot of
people. That's certainly a very fair request. However, after talking to a lot of the
restaurants, particularly these up here and some of these down here, what they
mentioned to us is we think it's more beneficial if we can have multiple seating areas
throughout the project. You put seating over there, this doesn't benefit us or certainly
benefit this. It's kind of like, well, that's not being fair, you're putting one here, but not in
other places. So, what we propose -- and I sent an e-mail with pictures on July 28th to
Joe Guenther. Until Friday I didn't know what the response was. We were proposing
three amenities -- two to three amenities and I have got copies of these and you may
have those, I don't know, but let me pass these out. What we are proposing is that
these be located -- that these be located maybe in two or three locations. You might
have one up here. You might have one down here. You might very well have one over
here. That specific design, it doesn't have to be exactly like that, that's actually over in
Silverstone. But we think it will -- Winston feels that it will accommodate more people.
So, what we would like to propose is that something similar to this -- and we are
certainly open to working with staff on a little bit more of a design if necessary, but that
we work with staff on maybe the locations and what have you. The one thing I'm a little
hesitant to do at this point is try to pinpoint those things. I go back, for example, EI
Dorado business campus, in EI Dorado the requirement was to do a pathway within the
project and the problem we found is if we put a pathway, all of a sudden we might have
a pathway where a building was going to be. So, what we agreed to do -- and we have
honored it -- is that we are putting the pathway in as the project is being developed and
it's working very well. The city doesn't have to worry about us not doing it, we are doing
that. And, yet, it allows us some flexibility in design. We think it's the same way with
the locations. I think if we can agree -- we can either agree to three of these, then, we
can put those in areas as it starts to develop and we find out where it's a more suitable
location for it. So, we would ask that the Council consider this as I guess our proposed
amenities on this project. A couple other items. We would ask that -- that on the
August 23rd hearing that the ordinance for this project be approved. I understand it has
been drafted. We would ask, one, that the development agreement be signed off on.
We have submitted that development agreement. We have been told at least by
Meridian that that development agreement, excluding the Findings of Fact, is suitable.
And we would ask that as of tomorrow we are able to submit for the final plat
application. It's very important for us to get started on this as quickly as possible. If we
could, we could be under construction tomorrow. These people are here and want to
go, they want to go quickly, and obviously, even though it's hard to believe right now,
winter will be here pretty soon. So, we want to start to get our infrastructure in, so we
are able to submit the final plat application tomorrow, so that we can get that reviewed
and allow ourselves to get started on the construction getting approved and getting
under construction. Finally, if you can go back to the concept plan. As Anna said, when
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August 16, 2005
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we started looking at these w- the site design for some of these buildings in here, we
started to realize that it wasn't quite big enough to site for it. You know, it's the old
analogy, if you kind of squeeze a balloon and make it bigger on side, it is smaller on the
other. We realize that ACHD has about 18 feet of right of way along here and they have
approximately 19 feet, extending about 25 feet through here. When we talked to them,
they said, you know, we will never use that in our lifetime --lifetimes. So, they agreed in
principal to sell it. On August 24th the Commission will accept our application that's
been submitted. We, eventually, agreed to a purchase price on it and as far as our
observation is, it's as good as a done deal as you're going to get. We have submitted
application to the City of Meridian. On September the 1 st you will hear the vacation for
that at P&Z and, obviously, thereafter with City Council. As Anna said -- in fact, the
language I gave to her is the language she drafted up, asking that we allowed to submit
the final plat with this right of way in there, with the understanding that until that's
purchased you don't sign the plat and we understand that and we are prepared to do
that. We can work around that. So, anyways, we would ask for that consideration.
With that I am done with the presentation. Like to answer any questions you might
have.
De Weerd: Council, any questions for the applicant?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I got one more clarification. Jonathan, would you state that the -- off Eagle Road
is a right-in and not -- a right-in only?
Seal: Right-in only.
Bird: Because we had -- I think Anna said right-in and right-out.
Canning: Sorry.
Bird: If I want to make a motion, I don't want to get it screwed up.
Seal: Well, I tell you, sometimes I am pretty lucky, but that--
Bird: But you're reaching for that one.
Seal: No. It's a right-in only.
Bird: Okay. Thank you.
De Weerd: Any other questions for the applicant?
Bird: I have none.
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August 16,2005
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De Weerd: Well, Jonathan, I just can't help myself, but your amenity is not really
consistent with the type of work we normally see from Winston.
Seal: Yes.
De Weerd: And I guess I don't want to say I'm disappointed, but, yeah, I will.
Seal: Don't shoot the messenger.
De Weerd: I didn't say that one, but it is. I would like to see something better. I think
that this is very visible and high profile entryway into our community and we would
certainly -- and it sounds like from the tenants that have been looking at this and maybe
have already committed to it, they see value of that, too. So, I guess I have an
expectation to see something more than this picnic shelter as an amenity.
Seal: If we weren't on record, I would say --
De Weerd: Well, Winston is walking up the stairs.
Seal: I would be glad to have him respond. I understand what you're saying and so --
and I -- let's say warned him.
De Weerd: Okay. Well, I'm sure you didn't really specifically say who would probably
bring it up, but we will certainly ask him.
Seal: Okay. I know he'll look forward to it.
De Weerd: Thank you, Jonathan.
Seal: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. This is a Public Hearing and I would invite public testimony. Right
now we do have Sheri Stiles signed up. Do you wish to provide -- we will just take them
all. If you will, please, state your name and address for the record.
Stiles: Sheri Stiles, Engineering Solutions, 150 East Aiken, Suite B, in Eagle, Idaho.
I'm here tonight on behalf of the Sassers that own the property immediately adjacent --
what happened? I'm not changing stuff here am I?
Canning: No.
De Weerd: No.
Stiles: Does this thing work? Okay. Blind myself. They live on this property right here.
They have spent a considerable amount of money remodeling that building and
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August 16,2005
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improving the property. They are in the process of moving back there and have every
intention of using that as a residence for who knows how long. Their master bedroom,
in fact, is facing towards Overland Road and they are very concerned about the lack of
buffering that is shown in this plan. I did have a question about the proposal to make it
a Conditional Use Permit for those lots surrounding their property. Typically, the
perimeter landscaping is done and bonded for as part of the final plat, so all that needs
to be taken care of prior to signature on the final plat. I have heard -- at least reading
the comments in the Planning and Zoning minutes, Mr. Moore did go on record stating
that he would do whatever the neighbors wanted and I would hope that he would follow
through with that and provide the buffer that the Sassers have requested, in accordance
with the ordinance. I don't know if there was a development agreement required as part
of this annexation, but there could be a clause in there that said the 25 foot wide
landscape buffer is required unless the property changes from residential use and/or the
adjacent owner agrees in writing to something less than the 25 feet. I know that the
Council has in the past granted that type of variance on the width of those buffers, but,
typically, the neighbors have had no problem with it. They either plan to do something
else with their property, they don't really need that kind of buffer, they don't necessarily
intend to stay there. But their wish is to stay there as long as they can and enjoy their
property, even though they realize it is a very rapidly changing area. Another issue that
we were concerned about was -~ since, apparently, some of the properties are being
either optioned or taken over by Mr. Moore, that the construction traffic not be allowed
to use Loder Avenue. That is -- basically, it was not built to today's standards, it was not
meant to carry heavy equipment, and it was like some of the old arterials around here,
that basically was -- they slapped down some asphalt on some dirt and that was the
road. So, they are concerned about that and also their access. I also read in the
minutes that it was suggested that the existing trees on the Sasser's property act as the
buffer for the development to the development and the trees that are there, if they put
the fence that they are proposing there at the depth they would have to dig to put that
fence in, the trees that exist there will likely be killed, because the root zone probably
extends over that. Sorry.
De Weerd: Please summarize.
Stiles: Also, the ACHD vacation process takes at least two months and that's after we
get through here. So, I know there is -- really, to wait until the final plat for that, but
that's something that needs to be taken care of, because it is an issue and if ACHD
decides not to do that, then, it basically changes the whole project. That's all I have. I'd
ask that you give consideration to these existing residences and take care of them
during the construction process.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Thank you.
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Stiles: Thanks.
De Weerd: Okay. That is the only name I had signed up. Is there anyone who like to
provide testimony on this application? Yes, sir. Please come forward. If you will,
please, state your name and address.
Sasser: Yes. My name is Gale Sasser at 1546 Loder place.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Sasser: And, basically, she has pretty much covered my concerns. I guess the project
at this point in time is very ambiguous in terms of what really is going to happen there
next to our place on that south side. That's our really big concern. Even the east end
where they want the five-foot -- where the road comes in, that's understandable for flow.
We can probably live with that, the five foot, but having five foot right next to our house,
basically, and her garden area and that type of thing, it really isn't acceptable. The
plans are to do restaurants, hotels, and along with that usually goes bars, drinking, and
that type of thing. So, we have a pretty heavy exposure to that type of traffic and people
-- you know, unfortunately, people don't always do the right thing and sometimes a five
foot fence gives them a buffer to hide behind and throw stuff over and that type of thing.
So, that's basically, what we are asking for, at least at this point in time. Maybe a year
or when they -- or two down the road the subdivision is going to go away, but at least
now it's residential and we are going to be living there. Our master bedroom is going to
be there and the buffer as per code would really be most helpful. And that's basically
our only concern.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Sasser. Any questions?
Sasser: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other testimony? Mr. Moore.
Moore: Yes, ma'am. Do you need me?
De Weerd: Yes, please. We have a question about your amenities.
Moore: Kind of figured you might.
De Weerd: If you will, please, state your name and address for the record.
Moore: I think what --
De Weerd: Winston, if you can state your name and address for the record.
Moore: I'm sorry. Winston Moore. 11665 Thomas Drive, Boise. 83709.
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August 16,2005
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De Weerd: Thank you. It's like I told Mr. Seal, we are very used to the quality of work
that you do and when we got this picture, it just wasn't consistent with what I equate to
Winston Moore's projects.
Moore: May I respond to that?
De Weerd: Yes, please. I would love that.
Moore: The amenities -- I grant you that's not a work of art. But amenities really are
pretty subjective. You know, what one person likes, another one doesn't, and vice-
versa. And it's not clear in my mind with respect to -- certainly we are going to do
amenities there that satisfies staff and you all and whoever needs to be satisfied. I
mean that's a given. It's not clear in my mind, though, if amenities -- is this an
ordinance or is it just something that local government would like or -- and I've not seen
-- and I -- perhaps there are some. This is a retail development. I don't recall having
seen a shopping center or restaurant complex that has the amenities that we are talking
about. We see it in business parks, like we did at EI Dorado and across the street at
Silverstone. This is kind of a first for me, but I, by some respects, live a pretty sheltered
life. But, in any event, you have my commitment that through your staff, Anna Canning
and whoever else, that we will agree on amenities and there won't be any problem.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any questions for Mr. Moore?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. Anna, do you need any clarity on this?
Canning: Yeah, I will. I will need a lot. This problem came up in the Lowe's site where
the amenities weren't clarified and it's been a struggle. We need to know from you all
kind of what size you want to see or how many of them you want to see or what type
amenity, what you want to see there. The amenity that you see on the board was for a
multi-use pathway that goes through Silverstone and was appropriate for that, but we
need to have an idea that -- two amenities are required by ordinance for the planned
development. There has been a wide range of what Council has felt appropriate, given
the size of the project and the location of the project and kind of what they had to work
with. We will need clarification from you on what you will want to see there, because,
otherwise, we have nothing to respond with when they come forward with an amenity.
We have nothing to base it on, unless we get that direction from Council.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Moore: May I say another word? We are going to have probably seven or eight
restaurants in this complex. It will be -- outside of the hotel and one bank, this will be,
essentially, restaurants, fine restaurants. Some of them are not -- this is their first trip
into Idaho. I spoke with four of them about amenities as to what they would like to see
and, you know, we have talked about something out in the center with a fountain and
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August 16,2005
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benches all the way around and they said, frankly, that they would rather see three or
four of these scattered ~~ or something similar scattered, so that all of the restaurant
patrons can benefit by them, instead of having something right in the middle or just two
of them on one end or something. So, they think, you know, from the standpoint of the
users, the people who are going to live there, so to speak, they like the concept. And I
just mention that for information. We will dress it up and clean it up and doll it up until
all of you are thrilled.
Bird: A nice glass top would look good there.
Donnell: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mrs. Donnell.
Donnell: I can understand Anna's concern about us being more specific about
amenities and, Mr. Moore, when I saw this it reminded me of the shelters that I see at
elementary schools, because I have seen a lot of those, and this doesn't seem to be in
keeping with a nice restaurant area and location. I rather like the fountain idea with
seating around it, but I think you do have to do what you need to do to meet the needs
of the folks that determine to be in that development. So, I don't know at this point how
we can really say we'd like them in block and not metal roofs and, you know, whatever it
is that we can say and so perhaps you could come back with something that dolls it up.
Moore: Well, I would imagine that subject to your approval, I would imagine that we
would work this out with Anna and her staff and come up with something that passes
her muster.
Wardle: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Anna, just to kind of summarize what I have heard,
that, in concept, the project is agreed to, essentially three covered seating areas.
Having seen some of the other projects done by Mr. Moore, certainly feel that
architecturally they can make this blend within the rest of the project. One of the things
that I would like to see as direction is if we do approve the three -- the three covered
seating areas, that there be some safe walking -- either sidewalk or at least safe
passage from the nearest outbuilding to the nearest seated area.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I have an idea that came to me.
Perhaps this will work. I guess the concern is if there are a lot of restaurants -- what I
always notice is missing from a lot of these restaurants is that if you're in the waiting
line, a lot of times you're stuck with no place to wait, especially on a Friday or Saturday
night. And maybe if the applicant could agree that when the CZC's came through for
restaurants in particular, that each of them would have an outdoor seating area with
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August 16,2005
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either a tree canopy or some other sort of covered space to accommodate eight people
or something -- ten people, something like that.
De Weerd: We'll have you work with staff. Sorry, Anna. Any other questions for Mr.
Moore?
Donnell: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Donnell.
Donnell: Mr. Moore, I'm assuming that as you listened to the testimony by the
neighbors, that you're in agreement to making sure that their needs are being met, so
that --
Moore: Yes. I'm sorry I was late. I figured number 16, we would be here until midnight
or something. I'm glad we are not. But I just heard the testimony of this lady and Mr.
Sasser and at the Planning and Zoning Commission hearing -- and correct me if I'm
wrong -- I think that all parties, including Mr. Sasser, agreed, and the commissioners,
that at the south side of his property, which would be the north side of ours, that he was
more concerned about headlights, since his bedroom is on the south side, as I recall.
He's more concerned about headlights from cars coming into the parking area there.
And, in fact, it's in the minutes. The way I recall it and the way I read it is we all agreed
on a five foot buffer, provided there was a six foot fence and a six foot fence would
seem to me to do a lot better job of deflecting headlights than a ~~ if it's a 50 foot buffer,
that isn't going to help the headlights, so -- and I'm not -~ I missed part of the testimony,
I apologize, but our history is in working with the residents, we get along with them, they
get along was us, they like the way we cooperate and I can't imagine we are going to
have any problem there. I think the only really consideration is Mr. Sasser's place. We
did purchase the one at the north end, the Adams. And the fellow in the middle, Bill --
I'm not sure how to pronounce his name. We have met with twice and he seems
inclined to -~ as soon as he can find a place up in Wyoming or somewhere, that he's
going to sell his to us. And so we have a lot of respect for Mr. Sasser and his wife.
He's a businessman, he's a good community person, and we certainly intend to work
with him. He was in to see us. We met with he and his wife here two weeks ago. We
talked about all of this and what -- part of what this lady was saying is a complete
surprise to me.
De Weerd: Okay.
Donnell: And Loder Avenue will not be used as a construction lane?
Moore: I'm sorry?
Donnell: Loder Avenue will not be used as a construction lane?
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August 16,2005
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Moore: No. You know, I don't think you're going to see any construction going on in
there until the subdivision covenants are abolished or amended or something. I mean it
is -- it's a residential neighborhood, we can't go in there, even though we own the
property, and violate the covenants. So, I think you're talking years, as opposed to
months, before anything happens in there.
Donnell: Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Any other questions? Thank you.
Moore: Thank you.
De Weerd: Is there any other testimony on this application? Jonathan, do you want
final wrap up?
Seal: Jonathan Seal, W.H. Moore Company again. As Winston said, I'm not sure how
this thing with Loder Road ever came up. If Ms. Stiles had called us, we could have
straightened her out on that. We have absolutely no intention of using Loder Road. In
fact, we don't have any intention with Adams, other than renting it out at this point and
that's for the foreseeable future. In fact, Winston Moore offered to let them stay in the
, house rent free for up to a year while they looked for another home, on top of offering
them a very fair price. With respect to the vacation, I have every intention of wrapping
up very quickly. I've heard a lot of times where these take a long time, but I've got it
done a lot quicker and I intend this to. I see no reason why that should have
interference on this. Our risk is with us, you don't sign the plat until the vacation is
done. It will be done. So, we are in the works right now and already talking to the
utilities, so we will do that. And I think as Mr. Moore said, we did meet with Mr. Sasser,
I visited with Mr. Sasser out there in the hallway also, so this is a little bit of a surprise.
At least our understanding is we thought we had everything pretty well worked out.
Again, you know, just as a very quick example, EI Dorado Business Campus, the
homeowners of Thousand Springs had an issue a couple months ago on some lighting.
We went over and met with them, including Winston, at 8:00 o'clock one night in their
homes. Even though everything had been approved, we didn't have to, we could have
said, you know, this has been approved, we are done, you live with it. But we did. We
have actually spent money to reduce some of the lighting, which is coming out of his
pocket and stuff. So, I think when he says to you I will be a good neighbor, I think you
know it's not hollow words and we will work with these people. We have done it and we
will continue to do it. We try to treat people fair, so -- that's it.
De Weerd: And, Jonathan, we know. We have had the neighbors and yourself in front
of us, so we know you have been a good neighbor, but they don't.
Seal: Sure.
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August 16,2005
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De Weerd: And this is for their peace of mind and to get it on public record. And so I
don't know if it was to have any intent of distrust, it was to make sure that we
understood their concerns.
Seal: And we appreciate their concern. I understand Mr. and Mrs. Sasser. If I was in
their situation would have that concern, too. It's easy for us to say, we are not in their
home and it is still a home. So, we can appreciate it and that's why we are trying to go
the extra mile p- we are willing to go the extra mile to accommodate them when we can.
So, we don't want to sound cavalier in this situation, so .-
De Weerd: Appreciate that. Any questions? Okay. Thank you. Okay. Council, do
you need any further information? Okay. I would entertain a motion.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we approve -- or we close Public Hearing 16, 17, and 18. I'm sorry.
Donnell: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. The motion is close the Public Hearing on Items 16 through 18. All
those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we approve AZ 05-019. I believe we also had a couple Findings already.
And Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law with any differences from public
testimony or Anna's comment to be included.
Donnell: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. Motion to approve Item 16. Mr. Bird, just for a point of clarity, I know
you usually wrap everything into -- and all testimony and -- but I guess I do want clarity
on the 25 foot buffer surrounding the one residential lot and if you can also give clarity
on -- if you are instructing the applicant to work with staff on the amenities.
Bird: That would be within -- would be within the annexation? I thought that was in the
preliminary plat.
De Weerd: Well, I think sometimes we like to have a lot of that with the annexation in
the development agreement.
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August 16,2005
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Baird: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, that's correct. If we want to capture
those in the development agreement, it would be appropriate to include that in your
motion.
Bird: I would include that as stated, that work with the staff on the amenities and make
the amenities within reason.
De Weerd: Does the second agree?
Donnell: Yes. With all other recommendations in terms of buffer and --
Bird: That's right.
De Weerd: Yes, Anna.
Canning: I need a little more clarification. So, the 25-foot buffer --
Bird: What does your Findings say right now?
Canning: It just says five feet right now. Okay. And, then, the -- okay. And, then, the
amenities and, then, just to clarify -- you have never talked about it, but including the
right of way at the final plat time, the additional right of way, I assume that's okay and
we will add that condition.
Bird: And I believe also that this is -- Mr. Seal stated that on that right-in -- and they
wanted -- which was right, they wanted to put -- to move the sidewalk over to the inside
of that right-in, instead of putting it out there on an island for somebody to get hit. And I
agreed with that, very much so.
Wardle: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: Anna, a point clarification, whether it's in the annexation or zoning or any of the
other two, I believe the requirement was for -- on the -- the three lots on the south, to
have those as conditional use; is that correct?
Canning: It's, essentially, four lots.
Wardle: Four lots?
Canning: These four, I believe.
Wardle: And those will come back through as conditions?
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August 16,2005
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Bird: The motion agrees with -- yeah. The maker agrees with that.
Donnell: As does the second.
De Weerd: Okay. Any further clarity needed on this motion? Okay. Mr. Bird, will you,
please, call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, absent; Wardle, yea; Donnell, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
De Weerd: Thank you. Item 17.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we include -- or we approve PP 05-024, for Dorado Subdivision, and
include all staff and public comment.
Donnell: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. Is there any discussion? Mr. Berg.
Berg: Thank you, Madam Mayor. I assume that these are amended findings?
Bird: I would make them, yes.
Berg: Thank you. I just wanted to state it for the record.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, absent; Wardle, yea; Donnell, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
De Weerd: Item 18.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we approve CUP 05-031 for Dorado Subdivision and to include all staff
and public comment and to include the Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and
Decision of Order.
Donnell: Second.
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August16,2005
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De Weerd: Okay. Motion is to approve Item 18. If there is no further discussion, Mr.
Berg?
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, absent; Wardle, yea; Donnell, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 19:
Public Hearing: RZ 05-009 Request for a Rezone of 4.53 acres from I-L
to C-G zone for Porky Park Subdivision by VJ Joint Venture - south of
Pine Street and east of North Eagle Road:
Item 20:
Public Hearing: PP 05-026 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 15
commercial building lots on 34.56 acres in proposed C-G zone for Porky
Park Subdivision by VJ Joint Venture - south of Pine Street and east of
North Eagle Road:
De Weerd: Thank you. Public hearings 19 and 20 are RZ 05--009 and PP 05-026. I
will open those public hearings with staff comments.
Canning: Madam Mayor, did you -- am I supposed to be talking? Did you open the
public hearings?
De Weerd: I certainly did. With your comments.
Canning: Okay. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is Porky Park and it's
located on the south side of Pine Street, east of Eagle Road. It actually doesn't include
the property right up against Eagle. That boundary is a little off. This is a rezone and
preliminary plat -- oh, it does -- it does include it. I'm sorry. It was -- it was a preliminary
plat for 15 commercial lots on 34.56 acres in an existing I-L zone and, then, they are
requesting to rezone just a portion of it. So, they are not rezoning the entire property,
just the Eagle -- the western most lots. And the rezoned portion is only 4.53 acres and
that will be -- they are requesting a rezone to C-G. The Planning and Zoning
Commission heard this at their June -- or July 7th hearing. No one testified in
opposition to the project. The key issue of discussion was the continued street section
from Pine to Commerce Street. To our knowledge there is no outstanding issues before
Council. Let me explain how this works a little bit. You might have recalled seeing this
on a reduction of platting requirements, so they were able to divide off the property here
to get the Maverick station started and that has come -- excuse me. Jackson's. I'm
sorry. I'm not doing well on remembering things today, for some reason. I think it's
because I'm going on vacation tomorrow, I think maybe I should have gone yet today,
but I forgive me. This came through the reduction in platting requirements and we did
require that it come through as part of this preliminary plat, so that's why it's before you
today. There -- the other odd thing that's going on, which works okay, is they are
extending this street from the subdivision to the south, so that there is a connection to
Pine Street. The street is built. It's not dedicated yet, so it will be dedicated with the
plat. So, right now it doesn't show up as a street, but it will be a -- it is a street and it's
Meridian City Council
August 16, 2005
Page 39 of 58
constructed to street standards. So, it has not been dedicated yet, but it is constructed
and it will be dedicated with this plat. Other than that, it's a fairly straightforward
subdivision and to our knowledge there are no outstanding issues before Council. I
remember it's a Jackson's.
De Weerd: There is probably a few other things and I'm just -- I know that Mr. Miller is
waiting for me to comment about the Porky Park thing. It's almost as good as
Wrinkleneck Subdivision, so -- if you run out of ideas for names, certainly we can help
you on that. If you would like to, please, come forward.
Miller: My name is Brad Miller, representing VJ Joint Venture, 3084 East Lanç:¡rk in
Meridian. My first question is I just want to know what Anna had to drink with her
dinner. We appreciate your attention on this matter. This is a subdivision that we are
doing over on Pine. All the improvements are pretty much done. Pine Street has
already been -- with the help of ACHD, we have already been able to put that in and it's
being readily used. We are proposing that we rezone just the front three or four lots. I
can't remember how many it is, to match the properties to the north where the car wash
and the Ram and those are, we figured it would make sense to have all those
commercial and the rest will stay industrial. It was annexed and zoned, I believe, back
in '94. So, it's been around for a long time. All the utilities are in place. Just a word or
two about that road. We have worked, with the Mayor's help and some of the Council
Members' help, we have worked long and hard with Micron, Albertson's, Coors, John
Jackson, and some of the other owners there on Commercial Court to get that road
done and with the help of ACHD as well we have been able to get that done. They are
constructing it right now and it will be completed sometime in the next 30 days, I
believe. And, then, we will -- I think with the second -- we area going to final plat this in
two phases. With the second phase that will be dedicated. We have the Jackson's on
the corner. We have sold that property to John Jackson. And, then, on the property
next to that there is the hotel that's anxious to get started on that. I had just four issues
that I just wanted to address in the staff report. I don't think there is any problems here
and we addressed them before at Planning and Zoning, but I just want to make sure
they were on the record. Number one is there is reference in the staff report to an
owners association. It's an industrial subdivision, it's a commercial subdivision. We are
probably going to own most of the buildings. As I say that, we are going to sell off the
first two, but the rest we have no plans to sell the lots. So, we will -- the subdivision will
be controlled by CC&Rs. We prefer not to have an owner's association. We don't have
any on our other subdivisions and ~~ we will have an architectural review committee.
So, we would prefer not to do an owners association. The second item is on the
landscape buffer. We are going to continue to farm this as long as we can. The
reasons for that, as you all know, the property taxes -- we lease it out to Vance Janicek
and he farms it for us right now. So, we will pull the first two lots out, but we will
continue to farm it for property tax reasons. And so we would prefer not to -- the staff
report requires that the landscape buffer be installed all at once. We would prefer to do
that as the lots are developed and it could be -- if you go on the other side of Lewis &
Clark Middle School -- I don't know how many lots we have, but we have a number of
lots and we have built ten buildings on there. We own all but three of those buildings
Meridian City Council
August16,2005
Page 40 of 58
and we still have a number of available lots. So, it could be five, seven years before we
build this thing out. It could be ten years before we build the whole thing out. So, we
would prefer to have a little bit of flexibility on being able to do the landscape buffer at
the time each building is constructed. In regard to pressurized irrigation, we had not
proposed pressurized irrigation. We are not necessarily opposed to it, but we have got
two irrigation districts in there, we have got Settlers and Nampa-Meridian, and I would
like the flexibility -- I'd like a little flexibility -- I'd like you to give staff a little bit of flexibility
on that, if you could, to work with us, because that can be a real brain damaging issue
trying to be able to deal with one, let alone two irrigation districts. So, if you can just
give staff a little flexibility on that, I'd appreciate it. And, then, the last thing is covering
the ditch. We plan to cover the Settlers Lateral and probably we prefer to do that on a
lot by lot basis, although when you get down to it, we are probably going to end up
doing the whole thing, but I'd just like staff to have a little bit of flexibility on that as well.
Those are my only comments. If there is any questions, I would be more than happen
to answer them.
De Weerd: My only comment was she probably drank the same thing you did when you
named this.
Miller: No. That was Mr. Van Auker.
De Weerd: Any questions from Council? Okay.
Miller: Thank you very much.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Canning: Madam Mayor, clarification on the rezone, since both Brad and I have
misspoken. This one is currently zoned C-G. They are requesting that these two
properties be rezoned from I-L to C-G.
De Weerd: Thank you for the clarification. This is a Public Hearing. Is there anyone
who would like to provide testimony on Items 19 and 20? Okay. Does the applicant
have any final remarks? Council?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we close the public hearings on 18 and 19.
Wardle: Second.
De Weerd: How about 19 and 20?
Bird: 19 and 20. I'm sorry.
Meridian City Council
August 16,2005
Page 41 of 58
De Weerd: Okay. And second --
Wardle: Yes.
De Weerd: Okay. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we approve RZ 05-009, the rezone and incorporate staff and public
comment, referring to the four objections that the applicant had, which I would agree
with, and I believe staff would, too. And allow staff to have the decisions on what was
requested. And also to approve the Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and
Decision of Order.
Wardle: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. The motion is to approve Item 19. Is there any discussion? Any
clarification needed? Okay. Mr. Berg, will you call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, absent; Wardle, yea; Donnell, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
De Weerd: Okay. Item 20.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we approve PP 05-026, for Porky Park Subdivision, and include staff and
applicant comments, including the specific four comments, and to allow staff to make
the decisions as requested by the applicant. And to approve the Findings of Fact and
Conclusions of Law and Decision of Order.
Wardle: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. The motion is to approve Item 20. And I guess I do want to make a
quick comment. Appreciate that connection up to Pine Street. That's been a long time
in coming and that road continues to be more and more dangerous with the trucks trying
to get out onto Eagle Road. So, I appreciate your tenacity with that. Okay. Mr. Berg,
will you, please, call roll. call
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August16,2005
Page 42 of 58
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, absent; Wardle, yea; Donnell, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 21:
Public Hearing: CUP 05..032 Request for Conditional Use Permit
approval for the operation of a public charter school in a L-O zone for
Compass Public Charter School by Compass Public Charter School -
2511 West Cherry Lane:
De Weerd: Thank you. Item 21 is a Public Hearing on CUP 05-032. I will open this
Public Hearing with staff comments.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is the Compass Public Charter
School and it's located at 2511 West Cherry Lane and it's to be co-located with the
Cherry Lane Baptist Church.
I
.1
De Weerd: How about the Cherry Lane Christian Church?
Canning: Cherry Christian Church. I knew I was going to --
Bird: What did you have with dinner.
De Weerd: She needs a vacation.
Canning: The application that's before you tonight is for a Conditional Use Permit and
you have heard this before, you acted on it as a temporary use permit in the same
facility. And the request is to allow a public charter school in the L-O zone. The school
is leasing approximately 17,000 square feet of a 30,000 square foot facility. And it
would be a kindergarten through 7th grade school. The Planning and Zoning
Commission has recommended approval and they heard it on July 7th. The key issues
of the discussion were, basically, a sunset clause for the Conditional Use Permit, since
it is expected to be a temporary location. Another issue of discussion was the hours of
operation and recess times for the children. The Commission voted to allow the CUP
with the -- just goes with the night. That the permit runs with the applicant and will
expire when the charter school vacates the property. The only real issue -- outstanding
issue that came out of the conditional use process was that -- the same issue that was
discussed during the temporary use and that was the open space location -- and at that
hearing the key issue of discussion was the outdoor recess area, which doesn't seem to
be addressed yet. I give up. I'm glad there is nobody here tonight. I'm sorry. I'm going
to end there.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, do you have any questions for staff? Do you dare?
Canning: No.
Meridian City Council
August16,2005
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De Weerd: Okay. Would the applicant like to provide testimony. If you will, please,
state your name and address.
Jensen: Mayor -- Madam Mayor and Council Members, my name is Crystalina Jensen.
I live at 2870 South Goldbar Avenue, Meridian, Idaho. And I serve as the chairman of
the board for Compass Public Charter School at this time. I'm proud to report that we
opened school on Monday and began operations. Prior to beginning our school
operations we did go through the necessary building inspections. We had an inspection
conducted by the -- let me get that. The building and safety -- division of building and
safety and that was conducted on June 27th and they didn't find anything out of the
ordinary, other than what had been pointed out by the Meridian fire department. We
had worked closely with the Meridian fire department to bring the building into
compliance and up to code. So, we installed fire and smoke alarms, strobe lights in the
classrooms. We did some work, added some panic hardware to the doors and
everything here up to code and as of Friday we had received our occupancy permit.
And that was August 13th, I -- no. 12th, I believe, that we received that. Everything
seems to be going well. We did contact the homes that are directly behind the facility.
There are three homes that are directly impacted by our area that we have designated
for our play in the recess area. We spoke with two of the homeowners -- one of the
homeowners actually shares about 200 feet of fence back there, the most impacted
one, and we spoke with them and told them what we were doing and trying to be a good
neighbor and introduce ourself. The only concern that was brought to us was they didn't
want a high school and when we told her that they would be elementary age children, K
through 7, that seemed to be very pleasing to them. We are trying to continue to be
good neighbors and make sure that balls don't fly over. I know we had two loose balls
on the first day, but I think we have taken care of that, and we have tried to move the
ball play, actually, into the gymnasium area away from that fence. We are putting in
some tether balls -- or just temporary tether balls that we roll out, so the children may
play with balls, that they will be more controlled. And we are going to be putting -- trying
to do some temporary four square and those kinds of things, a little further away from
that fence. We are trying to be careful and respectful of.their property. The biggest
recess issue, I believe, is our lunch time runs from 1 :30 to -- 11 :30 to 1 :00, which is
about one and a half hours, and that's more of a continuous type thing where we had
children going out and, then, leaving and kind of circulating the children through there.
But as of right now have had concerns raised by the neighbors. As far as the drop off
and pick up, the children -- the drop off has, actually, gone quite smoothly. We are
training our parents the best we can to show them that they enter and, then, drop off
and, then, because we have the rear blocked off in the mornings, we are asking them to
exit back out onto Cherry Lane and, then, turn left -- or right, a right turn only. And,
then, the pick up is a little bit trickier, because we have to match the kids up with the
cars and so we have designated the parking -- the parking along that side -- I'm even
not sure what direction it is, but that side over here --
Donnell: Excuse me. Chris, would you use the pointer?
Meridian City Council
August 16, 2005
Page 44 of 58
Jensen: Thank you. That helps. Right here is where we are having our car ~~ our car
pools park. A car pool consists of any -- more than four children -- or four or more
children that are getting into a car. We are having the parents come in and, then, pick
up their children, car pools are parked here. We have a person that has a stop sign and
helping these car pool parents walk across over here, pick up their children that are
waiting right here, return back safety to their cars and, then, they are exiting out this
way. We are having people that don't -- just parents that are picking up their children
that aren't car pooling coming in, picking up their children here, and, then, we actually
have opened this up and having them exit out this way. It seems to flow much better.
The first day we were struggling a little bit here with some backup and we found that
when we have them exiting this way it just helps everybody move much quicker. It took
us 21 minutes on the first day, we broke it down to 13 today. So, we are moving in the
right direction. Because we are trying to avoid having any cars out onto Cherry Lane
Road. Other than that, I think that those were the concerns. Is there any other
questions?
De Weerd: Questions from Council?
Bird: I have none, Mayor.
Donnell: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Donnell.
Donnell: It just sounds like buses. Picking them up and leaving. You do get better at it,
don't you, after the first couple of days. It truly does. I just have a question and perhaps
this is of Anna. And can you explain the sunset clause? Can you explain that tonight?
Canning: I will look it up and read it to you.
Donnell: Okay. Thank you. I actually looked for it, Anna, in all these pages, but I didn't
find it.
Canning: It's -- Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, it's, actually, rather simple. It
just says the subject Conditional Use Permit belongs to the subject applicant and shall
expire when Compass Public Charter School vacates the property. Traditionally, a
Conditional Use Permit runs with land, not with the applicant.
Donnell: Okay.
De Weerd: Any other questions? Thank you. We do have one other signed up to
testify or indicate their support of and that's Jay Walker. Would you like to provide
testimony? Okay. Is there anyone else who would like to provide testimony on this
application? Okay. Hearing none, any final comment? Thank you. Okay. Council?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
Meridian City Council
August 16,2005
Page 45 of 58
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we close the Public Hearing CUP 05-032.
Wardle: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. Motion to close the Public Hearing on 21. All those in favor say aye.
Okay. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
De Weerd: Any discussion?
Donnell: Go right ahead. You're on a roll, Councilman Bird.
Bird: I just want to go home. Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we approve CUP 05-032 and have staff and public comment incorporated
and approve the Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and Decision of Order. And
I had nothing but Coke to drink.
Wardle: Second.
De Weerd: I think Anna's words are infectious.
Bird: Yeah.
De Weerd: There you go. Okay. Motion to approve Item 21. Mr. Berg, will you call
roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, absent; Wardle, yea; Donnell, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 22:
Public Hearing: AZ 05-025 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 5.47
acres from RUT to R-4 zone for Meridian Hiah School by Hummel
Architects - 1900 West Pine Avenue:
De Weerd: Thank you. Item 22 is AZ 05-025. I will open this public hearing with staff
comments.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is a request by Meridian High
School and for Meridian High School. It's located on the north side of Pine Street, west
Meridian City Council
August 16,2005
Page 46 of 58
of Linder. The application that's before you tonight is for annexation and zoning. They
are asking you to annex and zone 5.47 acres from RUT to R-4. And the purpose of the
annexation and zoning would be to eventually allow a field house, additional
classrooms, and practice fields on the property. And I have a future expansion site plan
there for you. I'll let the applicant go through that in more detail. The Planning and
Zoning Commission did designate approval at the July 7th hearing. Paul Geile -- I'm not
sure on the pronunciation -- spoke in opposition. He was concerned that with the
residential zoning, that the school district could sell the property and, then, someone
could build houses on it, instead of a school facility. It was really the only issue of
discussion and to our knowledge there are no outstanding issues before Council.
De Weerd: Thank you, Anna. Any questions for staff? Would the applicant like to
make comment at this time? If you will, please, state your name and address.
Daniels: Ed Daniels, Hummel Architects, 2785 Bogus Basin.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Daniels: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the school district has owned this
property -- I'm not sure how long, but they have utilized it as a ball field. And as they
expand some of their programs at Meridian High School, we have discovered that it was
not annexed and nor did the chief of -- I don't know if it's a condition of a building permit
or not, but that's the main reason why we were requesting the annexation and the
rezone.
De Weerd: Yeah. I think it was a surprise to see that that is the piece, because I
thought it was part of the complex as well. Any questions for the applicant? Okay.
Mrs. Donnell?
Donnell: Madam Mayor. So, I'm assuming that this is going to be one of the projects
that will be included in the upcoming bond issue?
Daniel: I believe so.
Donnell: So, we need to get this annexed.
Daniel: We need to get it annexed. We are behind.
Donnell: So, if that is the case, that that land will be used, that the district has not
desired to subdivide -- sell the property and --
Daniel: Not that I'm aware of. No.
Donnell: He keeps looking at the person who knows. Don't trust anything that man
says.
Meridian City Council
August 16, 2005
Page 47 of 58
Daniel: That's right.
De Weerd: Okay. Any further questions, Council? Thank you. Anna, in response to
the concern by the neighboring property, is there something in the conditional -- or in
this -- in the Findings that can help ease their mind? Was that discussed at Planning
and Zoning?
Canning: Madam Mayor, I don't believe it was made a -- I don't believe the school
district was required to put it on a development agreement. I think the fact that the
school district does have plans for using the site, the only other property that I have
known of the school district disposing of was ones where they didn't have an existing
facility, so --
De Weerd: Well -- and I think this facility is already short land, anyway. I can't imagine
them piecing it off. I think they would have some citizens that would voice some
concern ,
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Before we close, I agree, I don't -- they have been using it -- they have been using
it as a school property and why it didn't get annexed, I don't know. Christine could
probably tell us.
Donnell: Before my time.
Bird: Anyway, I don't see that as a problem and I don't think legally that we could -- we
could attach that to an -- to an annexation or a zone change. I don't -- I would be
interested if the Council has any different opinion, but I don't think we can or -- nor do
we need to, myself. I don't have no concern.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, currently the property has no
frontage on the street, so --
Baird: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, there has been no discussion of the
need for any kind of a development agreement on this and I understand the school
district has certain procedures that they would have to follow before they could dispose
of land anyway, so there would be additional public process in the future and your
decision today wouldn't affect any of that.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Is there anyone who would like to provide public
testimony on this item? Yes, sir. If you will just, please, state your name and address
for the record.
Meridian City Council
August 16,2005
Page 48 of 58
Geile: My name is Paul Geile and I live at 4717 Willow Lane in Boise. And my father
does own the 20-acre piece adjacent to the west. And I guess I'm glad I came here to
clarify my testimony from last time. I really wasn't at all opposed to the annexation of
this property and in terms of building houses, I just found it curious that the school
district could get a piece of property and put it into R-4 and, then, have a use on it that
was clearly outside of an R-4 zoning and -- which is okay. I mean I guess we are going
to let them go ahead -- they are not going to build houses there, we know that much.
But it seems curious to me that if you have an R-4 and you were a school district that
owned the R-4, then, you could put, essentially, commercial buildings on there and I
was concerned that, you know, if you could circumvent that regulation, what other
regulations could you circumvent inside of R-4, what else could you build there, without
-- you know, since you're clearly not under the R-4 designation. I don't suspect they are
going to do anything crazy, but when I looked at it, it -- I expected there to be a school
zoning that I could come look at a set of limitations. There wasn't any. So, that as a
neighbor it made me a little concerned that since there really weren't any regulations on
a school district and the zoning board member told me we traditionally just let them
build whatever they want to build on their property. As a neighbor that makes me a little
cöncerned. And in talking to the -~ your planner at Meridian city, I got the impression
that there was no other point at which the public would have input on what was built on
that property, since they don't have to have another Conditional Use Permit, there is no
other -- there is no other phase for us to voice concerns if they intend to put something
there that is obtrusive. The things -- I live right next to Willow Lane athletic complex in
Boise. They have lighted ball fields there and those are an incredibly intrusive use in
that neighborhood. They are going to put some lighted ball fields here. If the
neighborhood doesn't mind, that's fine, and, then, they will put them in. But I was just --
this was the very last point at which I could get some public input on how that process
went and I'm kind of counting on your staff people, when they do their compliance with
-- when they finally decide what they are going to build, I'm given to understand that
they will have to comply with the setbacks and buffer and all of that business, but I
remember developing around Haven 5 and 4, where you couldn't necessarily rely on
that very well and back in the day. So, if I can get an assurance from you that they are
going to do that property and carefully and protect my interest as a neighbor, that's
probably all I can ask from you, because the annexation is -- needs to happen and we
need to build their thing, but can you see how that puts me, as a neighbor -- and a fairly
heavily invested next door neighbor, kind at a disadvantage, because we just don't have
any other public input. And there are no concerns right now about what they are going
to build, because they are also not limited to the plan that they presented to you. They
could build something else entirely. So, once they get passed you on an R-4 -- as a
neighbor I'm not protected against quite a few things. But I mean -- if I'm understanding
this correctly. And I'm not suggesting they are going to do crazy things, I just needed to
bring that to your attention. And with corrections to the last -- or the characterization of
my testimony last time, I certainly did not oppose it and I don't know other
neighborhoods are concerned that there is going to be office there, but it was just odd
that it would land in an R-4, which means something to one owner and means
something entirely different to another owner.
Meridian City Council
August 16, 2005
Page 49 of 58
De Weerd: Well, they are a quasi-public use and that is -- a commercial building is not -
- would not be allowed in an R-4 zone.
Geile: Well, right. And by a commercial I mean a gymnasium style building that you
would not allow in another R-4 designation if it were a private owner. I mean it just -- it
just was -- the juxtaposition was that it seemed to -- when I walked into this I assumed
that a cleaner process would be that there was a school zoning or a zoning that would
more properly contain uses like that and buildings of that nature, other than R-4. But
there isn't, so I'm willing to go ahead and let them do it, but it just was -- as a neighbor, I
needed you to know that my -- that even the public input from the surrounding
neighbors is pretty limited and if you look around Meridian, probably one of your
absolute biggest customers in terms of property value, traffic, footprint on Meridian city,
the school district is a very large consumer and to have them be outside of that
regulation is -- was just odd to me. But, you know, I talked to their representative and
he thinks they are completely over~regulated. So, we might be right where we need to
be. But, anyway, when I brought it to the attention of the planner, he kind of thought it
was a little odd, too, but -- and he understood my concerns, but this, apparently, is my
last chance to speak and I thought I'd go for it. So, that's alii have.
De Weerd: Well, I appreciate your comments.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I'd like Ted to explain why schools are in R-4s.
Baird: Actually, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Councilmember Bird, Anna
might be better prepared to address this. All I can say is that under the zoning
regulations public schools are permitted uses in residential zones and I think it's
probably under the principal that you want our residents to have schools nearby and,
Anna, you have been through the process of looking at the development code and
revamping it and all the reasons that we do the things the way we do, perhaps you have
some insight you could add on this.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I mean it -- we are most familiar with
the large public schools that go in. There are also a number of small private schools
that are very appropriate in a residential district. So, they are allowed in that district.
Sometimes they are conditionally allowed and I don't have a copy of our current zoning
ordinance, but the -- with me, but I do have the Unified Development Code and although
schools are a principal permitted use in some zones, they are condition in others and
right now the R-4 school would be a conditional use in the Unified Development Code
proposal that's -- you're in the midst of considering at this time. So, it would not be the
last opportunity to comment on this. I believe the remainder of the school property is R-
4 and that's why they went with the R-4 designation, even though it restricts them a little
Meridian City Council
August 16,2005
Page 50 of 58
bit more than the light office zoning would, where we see that on some of the other
properties.
Geile: So, there will be a Conditional Use Permit process for whatever they would like
to build in the future and at that point there will be more public input opportunity?
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council -- yes, there will be.
Geile: Okay. I was unaware of that and the people I talked to gave me the impression
that there was not that opportunity to comment on specific things that are being built in
that -- on that property. So, I guess maybe we will see you another day when they nail
down what exactly they are going to build and we will be notified like we would any
other -- any other user. So, I think that's alii have.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Baird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Baird: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I do happen to have the current code in
front of me. And, just to clarify for the record, public schools appear to be a permitted
use in the R-4 under the current code, so if an application were to come before the new
code's passed, which is targeted within the next month, we wouldn't have that
conditional use process. I'm seeing somebody shaking his head that it's unlikely to
happen, but maybe it is. Okay. It very well could be. So, I'm glad I put that on the
record to clarify current code versus -- versus the new code.
Geile: And, then, it's changing to the requirement for a Conditional Use Permit?
Baird: That's correct. And we are going through a process of identifying how -- when
applications are accepted and what code they are under and we are giving people an
opportunity to get their foot in the door before the code, because they are entitled to
know what the current rules are, what the -- what the upcoming rules are and -- so we
can have an orderly transition for that.
Geile: Well, in talking to the architects, it's unlikely that we will oppose whatever things
they -- I mean if what they propose is similar to what they have on the driving board
now, it probably won't be a problem even with a Conditional Use Permit process. It was
just disconcerting that there wasn't one.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Is there any other testimony on this application? Would
the applicant like to have any wrap-up words? Okay. Council?
Donnell: Okay. Madam Mayor?
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August 16,2005
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De Weerd: Mrs. Donnell.
Donnell: I'd like to make a motion to close the Public Hearing on AZ 05-025.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. Motion to close Item 22. All those in favor say aye. Okay. All ayes,
motion carries.
MOTION CARRIES: THREE AYE. ONE ABSENT.
Wardle: Madam--
De Weerd: Any discussion? Yes, Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: No discussion yet. Madam Mayor, 1- was going to make a motion for the finest
high school in the state of Idaho and possibly the world and just to say that I'm glad that
generations of students will no longer have to run wind sprints on the annexed property,
there will be a building there, and so that will help me sleep a little better at night. With
that, Madam Mayor --
De Weerd: You still have dreams to that.
Wardle: Yes, ma'am, I do. I move that we approve No. 22, AZ 05-025, to include
applicant comments and to providing some --
Donnell: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. Motion to approve Item 22. Is there any discussion? Mr. Berg.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, absent; Wardle, yea; Donnell, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 23:
Public Hearing: VAC 05-010 Request to vacate 16 foot right of way
easement on Lots 1-9, Block 1 of the amended plat of the Townsite of
Meridian for Meridian Creamery by Zeke Johnson - 27 East Broadway
Avenue:
De Weerd: Thank you. Item 23 is a Public Hearing on VAC 05-010. I will open this
Public Hearing with staff comments.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this project is for the Meridian
Creamery. It's, as you know, located at 27 East Broadway Avenue. This is a vacation
application and they are requesting to vacate 16 feet of the right of way easement. It's
not, actually, a right of way, it's somewhere in between and it's Lots 1 through 9, Block
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August16,2005
Page 52 of 58
1, of the amended plat in the Townsite of Meridian. Mr. Johnson already briefed you on
this in great detail a few weeks ago, so I'm going to keep it short, but just to summarize
it, the additional right of way was requested at sometime in the past, thinking that they
might actually put a street there, I would believe, and -- but it's never been developed by
ACHD and there doesn't seem to be a need for it at this time. P&Z has recommended
approval. It was not a Public Hearing, it was a public meeting item. There are no main
issues before Council. You will receive another request in the near future to vacate the
alley right of way in this area. And with that I will end staff's presentation.
De Weerd: Thank you, Anna. Is the applicant here tonight?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Bird.
Bird: May I ask a question? For public testimony, I don't believe that Mr. Johnson is the
owner of this property. He is representing the owner and has the proper papers and
that we are -- I just want that clear for -- so somebody can't -- and what we are going is
just making a recommendation to ACHD recommending this vacation; am I not right on
that? Okay.
Baird: Madam Mayor, would you like me to address that?
Bird: Yes, please.
De Weerd: Yes. Mr. Baird.
Baird: To clear up any confusion? Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, when we
first discussed this preliminarily a few weeks back, there was a question as to whether
this was, indeed, in ACHD's jurisdiction and I have confirmed with them that we are to
treat this as we do all other requests for vacation, that being that after the conclusion of
the hearing, the expectation would be that the Council would entertain a motion to
recommend or not recommend to the Ada County Highway District that they proceed
with their vacation proceedings. So, they are the final authority on this. They are
looking for a recommendation from you.
De Weerd: Okay, Thank you for the clarity. This is a Public Hearing. Is there anyone
who would like to provide testimony on this application?
Bowman: My name is Clair Bowman, I'm the administrator for the Urban Renewal
District, Meridian Development Corporation. I live at 4400 West Legacy Lane. I don't
know whether we need anything on the record officially about the anticipation of what
will happen here, but that same issue for the right of way easement will exist on the
Zamzow property to the east. There used to be a street down here called Railroad
Avenue that was vacated in 1938 -- '37 or '38. And at that time these easements were
placed on the north half of this row of lots anticipating that the alley might become the
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August 16,2005
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street at some point in the future. This is just one piece of what will be coming as
another part of a package at a later date. That would be all I would have to add,
Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: Okay. Any questions for Clair? No. Thank you. Is there anyone else who
would like to provide testimony on this application? Okay. Council?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we close the Public Hearing on VAC 05-010.
Donnell: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. Motion to close Item No. 23. All those in favor say aye. All ayes.
Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
De Weerd: So, I need a motion to recommend action to the ACHD commission.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move that we approve VAC 05-010, a recommendation to Ada County Highway
District to vacate Lots -- a 16-foot right of way easement on Lots 1 through 9, Block 1, of
the amended plat of the townsite of Meridian for the Meridian Creamery, represented by
Zeke Johnson at 27 East Broadway Avenue.
Wardle: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. The motion is to approve the request and recommend approval to --
whatever. Mr. Berg, will you call roll.
Berg: Thank you, Madam Mayor, and I will call roll and I just want to make sure that we
are approving the Findings also for recommendation that the Council's giving to ACHD.
De Weerd: That sounds much easier.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, absent; Wardle, yea; Donnell, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Meridian City Council
August 16,2005
Page 54 of 58
Item 24:
Ordinance No. 05-1170 Repealing Existing Zoning and
Subdivision Regulations Codified at Title 11 and Title 12 of the
Meridian City Code; Re-Enacting a New Title 11 To Be Known As the
Unified Development Code (2nd of 3 Readings):
Item 25:
Ordinance No. 05-1171 Enacting a New Provision of the
Unified Development Code Pertaining to Development Along the
State Highways to Be Codified at Title 11, Chapter 3, Article H of the
Meridian City Code; Adding a New Definition of the Term "Approach"
to Title 11, Chapter 1, Article A, Section 1 of the Meridian City Code
(2nd of 3 Readings):
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Berg. Okay. We have a second reading on Items 24 and
25. I would ask Council if you have any comments on these two items? We -- Mr.
Baird.
Baird: Madam Mayor, last week and the end of the -- Madam Mayor, Members of the
Council, at the end of the Public Hearing on the first reading there was some possible
questions from the Council that may not have been answered or some -- an opportunity
to provide direction to staff for items that they did or didn't want to see in the final
,version. You had a number of possible alternatives presented to you by some of the
speakers and I sensed that there was some desire by some of the Council members to
provide input. I believe that planning staff would appreciate any input that you have, so
when we bring this back for the third reading we have the final version as you would like
to see it. So, tonight would be a good opportunity to provide that input. I should also
say while I have the floor we are anticipating deferring the third reading for one week.
We won't bring that back next week, but we would bring it back -- I believe we will have
a meeting on August 30th, even though that Monday is a holiday, we are still here. So,
we would have final reading at that time. That's my understanding and we probably can
adjust that as we put the ordinance together. There is no requirement that we actually
bring it back, but what we want to do is allow planning staff a little bit of additional time
to incorporate what are a large number of both technical and substantive changes,
although the substantive changes that you have before you are not -- they don't rise to
the level of being material that would require us to start over again. Everything has
been well noticed, well discussed, but now is the time to bring it all together, so that you
know exactly what you're passing on the third reading.
De Weerd: Okay. Any comment from our Council?
Donnell: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mrs. Donnell.
Donnell: So, Mr. Baird, what we are talking about is giving the staff some direction as to
whether this should come back with -- in their recommendations that they -- when we
had our first reading they talked about they were okay with certain sections of it, okay
Meridian City Council
August16,2005
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with certain recommendations or suggestions. I think Mr. Turnbull was here and was
providing some input. Or whether we go ahead without that, is that -- am I to
understand that's what you -- did you understand what I said?
Baird: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, and Councilmember Donnell, exactly. I
think we closed the hearing -- we closed the hearing and moved on last week and I
sense that you had some input you still wanted to give and maybe Anna might also
want to tell you exactly what she might be looking for at this point.
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: Madam Mayor -- I'll let Anna go first and, then, I give her my comments.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, just to clarify on a couple issues. I
don't think I heard you tell me anything about whether or not on conditional uses for day
cares, if you wanted that to just end with that first applicant or continue like all other
conditional uses do. I believe the issue on the alcoholic beverages at the drive-up, we
decided that the state code would deal with that. And there was a little bit of an
outstanding issue on the 26 foot driveway cut for parkways as far as counting as open
space and I have done a little additional research since the last meeting on that subject.
I had Christy Vigil go out and before she left the office to pick 50 lots in five different
subdivisions, so ten lots in five different subdivisions, so a total of 50 lots, and go out
and measure them, just so we had an idea of what was being built. Interestingly
enough, Paramount Subdivision did come in with an average of 26 foot driveway cuts
for their -- for their lots. Most of the others were higher, though. So, the overall average
ended up being 29 feet three inches. So, I provide that information to Council. This is a
real quandary. I think as a city it's a good thing to encourage these parkways and with
the eight foot width ACHD has kind of discouraged them, so, on the other hand, if that's
the only open space that that property owner is going to get and everybody around
happens to have 40 foot driveway cuts, then, they are not going to get as much benefit
out of that open space as some other folks would. So, it's a little bit of a quandary on
that one. Other than that, you seem to be okay on the parking standards, which I
haven't heard anything about that would come as an item that you had raised concern
with previously. And I think those were the only kind of question marks that I just hadn't
heard from you one way or the other on those issues.
De Weerd: Thank you. Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: Madam Mayor. My comments, Anna, with the conditional use, I would prefer
that that stay with the property as far as the child care areas. We certainly can poll the
Council in just a moment. I would also prefer that we reduce the width to 26 feet to
incorporate some standards that would help more parkways within the city as a
minimum standard. In addition, to address another issue in Mr. Turnbull's letter, the
ability for a drive-thru establishment to, for example, be at one end of -- two ends of a
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August 16,2005
Page 56 of 58
retail building that may be less than 300 feet apart, I think is an adequate compromise
to our standards.
Canning: And that's how it was always intended. I just didn't word it very well.
Donnell: Good.
Canning: One other clarification, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. I thought the
edits were going to take me some time. I worked Sunday, knowing that I would be gone
on vacation, so -- and today snuck in some time and I actually have all the edits done,
except for the ones that you're going to proposed tonight. I still need to do some
formatting. So, I can have that copy available rather quickly. I do just -- I won't be here,
so it's going to be -- I can't make your next hearing date, but the 30th I should be able to
have a copy ready for you, a clean copy ready by that date.
De Weerd: Thank you, Anna. Is there any further -- okay. We need to have a second
reading. Mr. Berg, could you, please, read Items 24 and 25 by title only.
Berg: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Ordinance 05-1171 by title.
An Ordinance enacting a new provision of the Unified Development Code pertaining to
development along state highway -- okay -- to be codified at Title 11, Chapter 3, Article
H, of Meridian City Code, adding a new definition of the term approach to Title 11,
Chapter 1, Article A, Section 1, of the Meridian City Code and providing an effective
date.
Berg: And Ordinance 05-1170 -- I'm sorry I got those messed up. An ordinance
repealing existing zoning and subdivision regulations codified at Title 11 and Title 12 of
the Meridian City Code, reenacting a new Title 11 to be known as Unified Development
Code and providing an effective date.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Berg. So, the third reading will be--
Baird: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I understood Mrs. Canning to indicate
that she would have that clean copy ready for submission to the city clerk for third
reading on the 30th of August. Is that --
Canning: It gives me one day, but -- my one day back. But I should be able to do that.
Baird: And if there is any problem -- no. We are going to make that happen. It's got to
be the 30th.
Item 26:
Ordinance No. 05-1172 : RZ 05-007 Request for a Rezone of
.13 acres from R-8 zone to 0- T zone for Meridian Counselina &
Wellness Center by Ruth & Jeff Ulmer - 934 EaSt'5th Street:
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August 16,2005
Page 57 of 58
De Weerd: Okay. Item 26 is Ordinance No. 05-1172. Mr. Berg, will you, please, read
this by title only.
Berg: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Ordinance 05-1172, an
ordinance finding that Ruth and Jeff Ulmer, the owners of certain real property, have
made a written request for rezoning of the zoning classification for real property located
on a parcel of land being the north one half of Lot 7and 8, Block 1, Cottage Home
Addition, as recorded in Book One of the plats, at page 42, records of Ada County,
Idaho, and lying in the northwest quarter of Section 7, Township 3 North, Range 1 East,
Boise Meridian in Ada county, Idaho, as described in Attachment A of this ordinance
and rezoning certain lands and territories situated in Ada county, Idaho, and within the
corporate limits of the City of Meridian and rezoning the land use zoning classification of
said lands from R-8, medium density, OT, Old Town, in the Meridian City Code,
providing that copies of this ordinance shall be filed with the Ada county assessor, the
Ada county recorder, and the Idaho State Tax Commission as required by law and
providing for a summary of the ordinance and providing for a waiver the reading of the
rules and providing an effective date.
De Weerd: Thank you. You have heard Item 26 read by title only. Is there anyone who
would like to hear it read in its entirety? Okay. Hearing none.
Wardle: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: I move that we approve Item No. 26, Ordinance No. 05-1172 with suspension
of rules.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. Motion to approve Item 26. Mr. Berg, will you call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, absent; Wardle, yea; Donnell, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. I would entertain a motion for adjournment.
Donnell: So moved.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: All those in favor?
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August16,2005
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MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
De Weerd: All ayes. We are adjourned.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 9:39 P.M.
TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)