HomeMy WebLinkAbout2020-06-23 Regular Meridian City Council June 23, 2020.
A Meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 6:10 p.m., Tuesday, June
23, 2020, by Mayor Robert Simison.
Members Present: Robert Simison, Joe Borton, Luke Cavener, Treg Bernt, Brad Hoaglun
and Liz Strader.
Members Absent: Jessica Perreault.
Also present: Chris Johnson, Adrienne Weatherly, Bill Nary, Sonya Allen, Jamie Leslie
and Joe Bongiorno.
Item 1: Roll-call Attendance:
Liz Strader _X_ Joe Borton
_X_ Brad Hoaglun _X_Treg Bernt
Jessica Perreault _X Luke Cavener
_X_ Mayor Robert E. Simison
Simison: Council, I will call this City Council meeting in order. For the record it is Tuesday,
June 23rd, 2020, at 6:10 p.m. We will begin this regular City Council meeting with roll call
attendance.
Item 2: Pledge of Allegiance
Simison: Thank you. Item No. 2 is the Pledge of Allegiance. If you will, please, stand
and join us in the pledge.
(Pledge of Allegiance recited.)
Item 3: Community Invocation with Vinnie Hanke of Valley Life Christian
Church
Simison: Item No. 3 is the community invocation with Vinnie Hanke of Valley Life Christian
Church. Pastor Hanke, if -- we will recognize you and for the audience if you would,
please, take this as a moment to join us in the invocation or a moment of silence and
reflection. Pastor Henke.
Hanke: Mr. Mayor, City Council Members, thank you again for the opportunity to join with
you and to pray for you. Let's pray. God, I thank you for those whom you have called to
lead and to serve the city and, God, as they conduct their business this evening I pray
that you would provide them with wisdom, with courage and insight. Would you help them
to hold their authority with the fear before you, God, knowing that you are the chief and
end of all authority. God, we pray for the City of Meridian. We pray for the civil servants,
those on the staff and who serve our community so well. We pray for, God, those who
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are on the front lines in the health field, the doctors and nurses and technicians. Pray for
their continued safety as they seek to serve during this pandemic. God, we ask, again,
that you would bless and protect the City of Meridian and that you would be glorified. We
ask these things through your son Jesus Christ, amen.
Simison: Thank you, pastor. Appreciate your time.
Hanke: Yep. Thank you.
Item 4: Adoption of Agenda
Simison: For the record Councilman Bernt has joined us at 6:13 p.m. Item No. 3 -- 4.
Adoption of the agenda.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Is Mr. Bernt going to be doing this or you want me to go ahead, Mr. Bernt?
Bernt: Go ahead. You're good.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Not knowing of any changes to our agenda, I move approval of the agenda as
printed.
Borton: Second.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to adopt the agenda. Is there any discussion on
the motion? If not, all those in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay. The agenda is
adopted.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 5: Future Meeting Topics — Public Forum
Simison: Item No. 5, future meeting topics public forum. Madam Clerk, did anybody sign
up?
Weatherly: Mr. Mayor, they did not.
Item 6: Action Item
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A. Public Hearing for Midgrove Plaza (H-2020-0029) by Arthur
Berry, Located at 1450 E. Franklin Rd.
1. Request: Rezone of 1.96 acres of land from the I-L to the C-
G zoning district; and,
2. Request: A Preliminary Plat consisting of 6 buildable lots on
12.84 acres of land in the C-G and I-L zoning districts.
Simison: Okay. Then we will move on to Item 6-A, a public hearing for Midgrove Plaza,
H-2020-0029, and I will turn this over for staff comments.
Allen: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council. The first application before you
tonight is a request for a rezone and a preliminary plat. The site consists of 12.84 acres
of land. It's zoned I-L and C-G and is located at 1450 East Franklin Road at the northwest
corner of Franklin and Locust Grove roads. The site was annexed back in 1996 without
the requirement of a development agreement. A conditional use permit and a planned
development was approved at that time that has since expired. The Comprehensive Plan
future land use map designation for the southern 5.8 acres is commercial and industrial
for the northern seven acres. The applicant requests a rezone of 1.96 acres of land from
the I-L to the C-G zoning district. The area proposed to be rezoned is designated as
industrial on the future land use map. Because future land use map designations are not
parcel specific and adjacent abutting designation when appropriate and approved as part
of a public hearing with the land development application, may be used without an
amendment to the map. The applicant requests the abutting commercial designation
apply to the area proposed to be zoned C-G. Because the rezone is proposed to coincide
with proposed lot lines so that two zoning districts don't exist on one property, staff is
amenable to the request. At this time no buildings or users are planned. The property is
proposed to be subdivided and infrastructure installed for future development. The
property is intended to develop with commercial and industrial uses as allowed in the C-
G and I-L zoning districts. A preliminary plat is proposed as shown there in the middle
consisting of six building lots on 12.84 acres of land in the C-G and I-L zoning districts.
Access is proposed via two existing curb cuts on Franklin Road. The access closest to
the intersection will be restricted to maintenance vehicles from the city, Nampa-Meridian
Irrigation District, or other authorized entities and will not be used by the public and four
existing curb cuts on Locust Grove Road. Only the two middle accesses are approved
byACHD via Locust Grove. ACHD has also approved the access driveways via Franklin
Road with western access signed right-in -- excuse me -- right-out only with full access
into the site until such time as the center median is constructed in Franklin. With the
eastern access gated and restricted to service vehicles only. A cross-access ingress-
egress easement is required between all lots. Five Mile Creek bisects the southwest of
this site and is required to be left open as a natural amenity. A 14 foot wide multi-use
pathway is required along the east side of the creek, which will serve a dual purpose as
a utility service road. A 25 foot wide landscape street buffer is required along both Franklin
and Locust Grove roads. Because development is not proposed at this time, concept
building elevations were not submitted. Future structures are required to comply with the
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design standards in the architectural standards manual. The Commission recommended
approval of this project. Ben Semple, the applicant's representative, testified in favor. No
one testified in opposition or commented on the application. Written testimony was
received from Ben Semple, the applicant's representative, in agreement with the staff
report. There were no items of discussion by the Commission or changes to staff's
recommendation and no written testimony has been submitted since the Commission
hearing. Staff will stand for any questions.
Simison: Thank you, Sonya. Council, any questions?
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Thanks, Mr. Mayor. Sonya, would -- would this rezone have any impact on our
currently approved Comprehensive Plan?
Allen: Mr. Mayor, Councilman Cavener, no. It is consistent with the Comprehensive Plan.
Cavener: Thanks.
Simison: Is the applicant with us?
Weatherly: Mr. Mayor, he is. Mr. Semple, you can unmute yourself.
Semple: Hi. Ben Semple with Rodney Evans & Partners. Address 1014 South Lapointe
Street, Suite 3, Boise, Idaho. 83706. Mr. Mayor and Members of City Council, I want to
thank the staff for their report and their help in getting us to the point that we are right
now. As was stated, we are in agreement with all of the conditions of approval noted in
Section 9 of the staff report, as well as the findings in Section 10 of the staff report. We
have worked with ACHD and are in agreement with the closure of the driveway
approaches as stated in their report, as well as the western most approach that they are
temporarily approving a Lot 6 -- or Lot 5. We are paying a road trust to them for a future
median construction if it occurs within their standard time frame and the property to the
south of Franklin redevelops, at which point a center median would be required, but we
will be contributing to that as part of a payment directly to ACHD. Other than that I don't
have much to add to the staff's report. Again, I thank everyone for their work on it and I
would stand for questions.
Simison: Thank you. Council, any questions for the applicant? All right. This is a public
hearing. Did we have anyone sign up to testify on this issue?
Weatherly: Mr. Mayor, we did not.
Simison: Okay. Is there anybody in the public or online who would like to provide
testimony on this application?
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Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Just one question to staff. Sonya, can you just talk briefly about -- it seems a
little unusual that we would have a rezone and a plat without any elevations and no -- no
DA requested. So, it seems very open ended, which would otherwise be -- it just seems
unusual. So, give us a little context. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it's not unusual. But it
seems like it is and this is the one and only time that some of those specifics are captured
and required as a condition of a zone change is kind of a big deal. So, talk with me a little
bit about that.
Allen: Mr. Mayor, Councilman Borton, there is no development proposed at this time.
Rather than ask the applicant to guess at a concept plan that isn't going to happen, staff
wasn't overly concerned about it due to the size of the site and the existing and future
development slated for this area. It's -- it's next to industrial property. Staff just isn't overly
concerned about it. If you feel a development agreement is necessary and a -- and a
concept plan and building elevations are necessary, then, that is under your purview.
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: I guess asked another way is that do the UDC standards have enough structure
in them that gives you comfort that it's not needed and there is still enough parameters
that can direct the development in a way we want?
Allen: The -- the uses will be allowed as -- as for the -- per the C-G and the I-L zoning
district in the UDC and, then, any future development and buildings will be required to
comply with the design standards and architectural standards manual for industrial and
commercial uses.
Borton: Thanks.
Simison: Council, any other questions? If not, would the applicant like to make any final
closing comments?
Semple: Yes, Mayor and Members of Council. I guess to touch on Council Member
Borton's question about it, so the -- the reason that we are doing this rezone of just under
two acres is just to bring the zoning in compliance with the lot layout, so that we avoid
multiple designations of zoning on single lots right there. So, right now the -- the corner
at Locust Grove and Franklin is C-G and the two lots north -- northern most lots one and
two as shown on the preliminary plat are I-L. There is just this little strip right there that's
still zoned I-L that we are bringing into C-G, so that the four lots on the corner are all C-G
and the two lots on the northernmost are all I-L. And that's all I have to add. Thank you.
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Simison: Okay. Thank you very much. Council, do I have a motion?
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: I move to close the public hearing on Item 6-B, H-2020-0029.
Hoaglun: Second the motion.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. Is there any
discussion on the motion? If not, all those in favor signify by saying aye. Any nays? The
ayes have it.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: I think the presentation of staff and the comments from the applicant make good
sense that this request, both for the rezone and the preliminary plat, are appropriate as
presented, so I'm going to make a motion to approve Item 6-A, H-2020-0029, as
presented in the staff report dated June 23rd, 2020.
Hoaglun: Second the motion.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to approve Item H-2020-0029. Is there any
discussion on the motion? If not, clerk will call the roll.
Roll call: Bernt, yea; Borton, yea; Cavener, yea; Hoaglun, yea; Strader, yea; Perreault,
absent.
Simison: All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Simison: We will move on --
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Sorry, Mr. Mayor. Before we move on to the next item, just a request for the
three Council Members that are -- that are in the room. So, Council Member Borton, your
-- your voice is somewhat faint. If you could just eat the microphone a little bit more, it
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makes it a little easier for us remotely to be able to hear you.
Borton: Will do.
Cavener: Thank you, sir.
B. Public Hearing for Ascent Townhomes (H-2020-0039) by
Schultz Development, Located on the North Side of W.
Franklin Rd., Midway Between N. Black Cat Rd. and N. Ten
Mile Rd.
1. Request: Annexation of 5.25 acres of land with an R-15
zoning district; and,
2. Request: A Preliminary Plat consisting of 43 buildable lots, 11
common lots and 1 other lot on 4.97 acres of land in the R-15
zoning district.
Simison: Okay. Item 6-B is a public hearing for Ascent Townhomes, H-2020-0039. I will
turn this -- I open the public hearing with staff comments.
Allen: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council. The next item before you is a
request for annexation and zoning and a preliminary plat. This site consists of 4.97 acres
of land. It's zoned RUT in Ada county and is located on the north side of West Franklin
Road, approximately a third mile east of North Black Cat Road. A previous development
application was heard by the Commission earlier this year for a multi-family residential
development on this property that was withdrawn by the applicant before it went to
Council. The Comprehensive Plan future land use map designation is medium high
density residential, which calls for eight to 12 units per acre and it is within the Ten Mile
interchange specific area plan. The applicant is requesting annexation of 5.25 acres of
land and that does include adjacent right of way to the section line of Franklin Road, with
an R-15 medium high density residential zoning district consistent with the medium high
density residential future land use map designation for this property. The applicant
proposes to develop the site with a mix of 39 townhome units and four single family
attached units at a gross density of 8.65 units per acre, consistent with the uses and
density desired in the medium high density residential designated area in the Ten Mile
plan. A preliminary plat is proposed consisting of 43 buildable lots, 11 common lots, and
one other lot on 4.97 acres of land, proposed to develop in one phase. One temporary
right of way access easement is proposed on Lot 9, Block 6, via West Franklin Road and
that is this lot where the access is right here where my pointer is. Two local stub streets
are proposed to the west and two are proposed to the east for future extension and
interconnectivity. The temporary right of way easement is required to be released when
a local street connection is constructed to this site from a neighboring development. At
such time the access will be restricted to emergency and pedestrian access only. Twenty
foot wide public alleys are proposed for access to the rear loaded units running on North
Ascent Avenue, the main north-south street. The Purdam Drain along the northeast
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boundary of this site within a 25 foot wide easement. The drain is proposed to be piped
with this development. A 25 foot wide landscape street buffer is required along Franklin
Road. A 35 foot wide buffer is proposed exceeding UDC standards. Because the site is
below five acres in size it is exempt from UDC standards pertaining to qualified open
space and site amenities. However, the applicant did submit a qualified open space
exhibit shown in the center there that depicts .55 of an acre or 11.2 percent qualified open
space consisting of two large common open space areas and half the street buffer along
Franklin Road. This calculation is actually higher as the open space exhibit does not
include parkways along internal streets, which are proposed throughout the development.
A children's play structure is proposed as an amenity for this site. The applicant is
required to provide off-street parking based on the number of bedrooms per unit in accord
with UDC standards. Although the UDC does not require on-street parking to be provided,
the applicant did submit an exhibit as shown showing a total of 32 spaces available for
guest parking along the main north-south street, North Ascent Avenue, which should be
sufficient to serve the development. Conceptual building elevations were submitted as
shown for the proposed single family attached and townhome units. These are the
attached units and these are the townhome units. Building materials consist of a mix of
horizontal and board and batten siding in a variety of colors with stone veneer accents.
Dwelling units range in size from 1 ,400 to 1,600 square feet. Each alley loaded unit has
a front porch. Those are as shown here. And each front loaded unit has a covered patio,
but not a front porch as required. These are the front loaded units. Based on the Ten
Mile plan, which requires garages that are accessed from the front to be located no less
than 20 feet behind the primary facade of the residential structure. Staff recommended
revisions be made to the plat and elevations prior to the hearing tonight to comply with
this requirement, which would also allow for front porches to be provided for these units
as desired in the plan. No such revised plans were submitted prior to the City Council
hearing tonight by the applicant. The Commission did recommend approval of these
applications. Matt Schultz, the applicant's representative, testified in favor of the
application. No one testified in opposition or commented. Written testimony was received
from Matt Schultz, the applicant's representative, in response to the staff report. He
requested a waiver to the requirement and development agreement provision A-F, which
requires front loaded garages to be located no less than 20 feet behind the primary facade
of the residential structure. He also asked for clarification on whether or not the entry
monument would satisfy the requirement in the development agreement provision A-G
for public art to be provided in the streetscape along Franklin Road. In response, if the
monument includes a high quality of design and includes a public art as described in the
Ten Mile plan, it could qualify. And Mark Bottles, the neighboring property owner to the
west, submitted written testimony as well. He is in support of the project, including the
density and housing types proposed. Key issues of discussion by the Commission are
as follows: They had a question regarding if there was a berm proposed within the street
buffer along Franklin Road. The applicant replied that a two to three foot tall berm is
proposed. They were in favor of the diversity of housing types proposed. They were in
favor of the open space and site amenities proposed, which is above and beyond UDC
requirements. And, finally, they were in support of the proposed design over that
previously proposed with the previous application. The Commission made the following
changes to the staff recommendation. They recommended approval of a waiver to
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development agreement provision A-F as requested by the applicant and the applicant
-- they directed the applicant to work with staff to determine the best type and placement
of public art to be provided in the streetscape along Franklin Road. The only outstanding
issue for Council tonight is that the applicant requests a waiver to development agreement
provision A-F, which requires front loaded garages to be located no less than 20 feet
behind the primary facade of the residential structure. And the only written testimony that
was submitted since the Commission hearing was from Susan Quarnstrom and you
should have a copy of her letter in your packet. Staff will stand for any questions.
Simison: Thank you, Sonya. Council, any questions at this time?
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: Sonya, is this image that-- oh. Yeah. Is that image -- is that image on the screen
the image which depicts the design with the waiver as requested that does not have the
garages setback at least 20 feet?
Allen: Mr. Mayor, Councilman Borton, correct.
Borton: Okay.
Allen: Just as proposed.
Borton: Okay. Thanks.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: A question. Just wanted to follow up on the public art requirement for the Ten
Mile interchange. I know there is those requirements. Is there no size of development
waiver? I mean this is under five acres. So, I wanted to know a little bit more details on
that.
Allen: Mr. Mayor, Councilman Hoaglun, Council, there -- there is no waiver provision in
the Ten Mile plan. The Ten Mile plan is a -- is a guide -- guidelines for development. They
are not standards. Therefore, there are no exemptions.
Hoaglun: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Sonya.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
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Bernt: Question for Sonya. In your -- in your opinion, do you feel like this development
is within in the parameters of the Ten Mile specific plan?
Allen: Mr. Mayor and Council, I think the question was -- I couldn't quite hear -- is if in my
opinion this proposed development is consistent with the guidelines in the Ten Mile plan?
Is that -- did I get that correctly?
Bernt: Yes.
Allen: I do believe it is consistent with the plan with staff's development agreement --
recommended development agreement provision about the garages being setback. That
is what the applicant is requesting a waiver on.
Simison: Council, any further --
Strader: Mr. Mayor, follow up?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: So, Sonya, are you in favor of granting that waiver or do you think that it's
important for the whole concept of the Ten Mile plan to not grant that?
Allen: Mr. Mayor, Council Woman Strader, Council, staff's position is that development
should be consistent with the Ten Mile plan. However, it's under your purview to make
any waivers to that.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Sorry. I'm going to -- I'm going to keep pulling it out of you, Sonya. What --
help me understand why -- what the importance is of having that design element or
standard within the Ten Mile plan in terms of, you know, by sticking strong to not giving a
waiver on that what are we achieving? Is it more cohesive with how the rest of the Ten
Mile plan will look? Help me contextualize that a little bit and the importance of it.
Allen: Mr. Mayor, Council Woman Strader, Council, of course that is a guideline in the
Ten Mile plan. So, that is what we expect of evolved development -- residential
development in the Ten Mile plan. The Ten Mile plan is more pedestrian focused,
pedestrian oriented. These are very much garage vehicular dominated, the elevations as
proposed. By-- by setting the garages back 20 feet it -- it brings -- the living area appears
to be closer to the street. I mean it's a -- it's a little -- it's a little closer setback. The
garages are required to be a little further back. So, it just makes them -- the living area
more prominent, as desired in the Ten Mile plan. It's -- it--the Ten Mile plan desires more
traditional neighborhood design and these are more just typical single family detached
like you see anywhere else in the city.
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Strader: Thank you.
Simison: Council, any further questions at this time? I see the applicant is with us online
and so we will turn this over to Mr. Schultz for 15 minutes. If you could state your name
and address for the record.
Schultz: Can you guys hear me?
Simison: Yeah. We can.
Schultz: And you can see me. All right. Good evening, Mayor and Council. Matt Schultz,
8421 South Ten Mile in Meridian. Happy to be here tonight via Zoom. I'm up in McCall
with family, so I'm social distancing and getting this City Council hearing at the same time.
It's great. So -- can you guys hear me okay and see me okay? Because I just got a little
thing that said unstable on my screen, so I just had to make sure. So, I appreciate Sonya's
intro, although I think there is a little bit of -- a little bit of confusion maybe that I seek to
clarify before I jump into the details and the architecture and things like that. I just want
to kind of step back and look at the high view on this particular parcel that late last year
we -- we thought we might try a little -- a little apartment site on a 4.97 acres that looked
like another project that we did previous to that. It looked good. Everybody liked it. They
just didn't like how it -- how it meshed with the Ten Mile plan on access and how things
fronted and they even -- all the Planning Commission even said that they liked it, it's just
that it -- the biggest issue for them was one that even staff didn't even bring up was it -- it
was -- it was a private apartment site with no connections. So, it was kind of its own little
thing. I got up there and said, hey, we don't have all the room for the alleys and the roads
and the alleys and the roads to get all the -- all the different things to come out in plan, so
they said, well, maybe we should just wait for more property to come in and I was like,
wow, it -- they really got me on that, because I could see Council saying the same thing
is how are you going to connect everybody else. So, that's why we went through it. We
didn't --we didn't like our chances moving forward with Council, although I'm not afraid of
an appeal occasionally. This was one that we saw wasn't going to go anywhere,
especially with how Commissioner Holland and everybody else chimed in about, hey,
maybe it's not in the best interest of the city is to take this five acres only in, let's just wait
for more property to come in and it's like, oh, man. So, we kind of shook it off, started
from scratch, got a little bit of inspiration from one in the area, Hensley Station, in terms
of attached single family. One of the important things about this area for the city, having
been involved in Ten Mile plan since its inception back in 2006, 2007, myself across the
street and some other ones, was, hey, Ten Mile interchange, we don't need density just
for the sake of density, we want some nice density, we want -- but, you know, we want
that target for this particular parcel needs to be over eight units to the acre, which is
impossible to get with your standard single family detached. We looked at it that way.
That's -- that's what we prefer. But it just -- we just couldn't get there. So, we looked at
the Henley -- Henley Station project, which has some attached -- excuse me. These
aren't -- these are just a couple of duplexes that we have in some corners, but the main
entryway is all traditional neighborhood, alley load, meaning porch front, you know,
promoting that sense of community and neighborhood community and detached
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sidewalks and that was the main design feature that we knew we had to have to -- you
know, there on the left you can see the boulevard entryway to have the -- the design
element that the Ten Mile plan really, really, really promotes, which we have on our entry.
So, 65 percent of our units, which is, you know, the good majority are that de-emphasized
-- you got garages, but they are -- they are not on the main road and, then, as you enter
the -- the units that Sonya was talking about that we wanted the waiver on are the ones
that back up to Franklin and, then, there is a couple of littles in the corners there, you
know, the -- the attached -- they are not duplexes, they are zero lot line townhomes. So,
those are the ones we want a waiver on. We have 65 percent meeting the traditional
neighborhood. If you look at Hensley Station they had about 48 percent. Baraya across
the street had about 33 percent. I'm not sure about -- about -- excuse me, I'm drawing a
blank on the one on Overland and Ten Mile. They probably have something similar to
Baraya in that. It--the design of the overall subdivision certainly de-emphasizes garages,
although a hundred percent -- and this is where I take a little bit of an exception to staff's
interpretation that a hundred percent of all units have to either be an alley loaded or meet
this -- I don't know what it looks like -- 20 foot back from front garage and we are not
talking about 20 foot back in the road, we are talking 20 foot back from the front. I still
think that should be like a two instead of a 20 and the idea being back, then, I was involved
in was to break up that front facade on the two stories, so they are just not straight vertical
and I get it, I -- that 20 foot is just something that -- if I -- if I could even visualize what that
-- what that looked like or meant -- we looked at an option. The only way to potentially
accomplish it would be to turn those units along -- along Franklin sideways, lose four or
five and have common driveways and the Planning Commission didn't like that and I'm
still not even sure how we -- how we meet that 20 foot back, but -- but the big -- one of
the big issues on this project is access. It's on Franklin, so it's got great access in terms
of proximity to the Ten Mile interchange. Franklin's been widened a few years ago. It's
got the detailed sidewalks. It's there. It's in. We are not waiting for anybody to come
widen it. One of the problems is since it's a major arterial ACHD spacing says 1,320 feet
-- basically a quarter mile spacing. Where we located ours is where it would work out
good for this entry, but it's about 662 to -- to the east and to the west of--to the west there
is one across the street on Baraya and to the east there is one about 660 that's -- I think
it's called Entrata Farms or something like that. That's where the main access will be for
this project long term. Short term there is a 20 acre parcel north of us that kind of controls
a lot of the access and there is a stub street today from Entrata. It's about 200 feet away
in the north. So, what we proposed to ACHD -- and they -- and they did grant us the
waiver to not meet the 1 ,320 based on that -- that entryway when the -- the property to
the north does develop and adequate access is provided, that that would be converted to
an emergency access only, pedestrian only, and they are having us trust I believe 10,000
dollars for that up front, so they can come back in and put the bollards and they can make
a little tweak to their driveway. But other than that we thought it was important to -- even
though we could have skimmed by potentially on the open space and the amenity, we
thought it was important to put in the open space and the amenity with this -- this little
project. To Councilman Hoaglun's point, I was going to ask tonight for a waiver on the art
at the entry -- not that I'm anti art, I love art, I'm just not good at it and I think this little --
this little site, which does not have permanent access on -- on Franklin, probably isn't the
most appropriate place for it I guess if you will. So, Planning Commission loved it. They
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loved it better than I thought they would. They thought it was a great way to accomplish
those things that are important in the Ten Mile plan, which is that front -- you have to
eliminate the -- just the straight garage fronts. They were in support of the waiver. Not
that -- like -- like Sonya said and they liked our open space and they thought our
architecture was -- was good. We hired Houston Bergosh to just come up with the -- the
best thing that they could come up with for this thing and, you know, in hindsight maybe
it's a little too expensive, but it looks great. It's what we want to do and we think it will be
a good little in-fill, if you will, into a site and to provide all those future connections, you
know, four of them, that they are important. In fact, Mark Bottles almost screwed me up
a week before Planning Commission when he said he wanted me to move my stub street
in that northwest corner to the north and I went -- I don't know how that's going to work.
But what you see here is that move. It still miraculously worked out efficiently and we
were able to give them a little jog that ACHD approved that would have that road to the
northwest line up in a spot that was better for him, better for that neighbor to the south,
and it's one of those rare -- rare, rare, rare for me sites where I have all my neighbors
happy where they didn't -- or they are just -- they are just not -- they are just not here,
they are not responding, I know it's kind of rare, especially for some higher density. But
we think we have a high quality project. We think that granting the waiver it will in no way
diminish the compliance of this project with the Ten Mile plan. As a bigger project looking
at the 65 percent that we do that are -- have the -- the garage in the back of the house, if
you will, these are actually a little bigger than Sonya said once they came out of the final
architecture after we submitted this or actually between about 1,600 and 1,800 square
feet, two car garage, two car parking pad, plus all that off-street -- or, excuse me, on-
street parking. So, we really feel like we check all the boxes and this is a great little piece
of the puzzle. The Ten Mile plan has been out there for about 15 years now and it's just
now kind of getting going in -- in a bigger way. So, with that I will stand for any questions
and thanks for your time.
Simison: Thank you, Matt. Council, any questions?
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: Matt?
Schultz: Yes.
Borton: Are you there?
Schultz: I'm here.
Borton: Okay. Make sure you can hear me. So, I want to --
Schultz: Yeah.
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Borton: There is a lot that looks really good with this development. The covered patio,
the front porch, the alley load, there is -- there is really some neat design elements, but
the questions with regards to the -- the 20 foot driveway requirements, what do we say to
the property to the east or to the west who comes in and -- and does the same thing,
makes the same request and, then, says the Ascent Townhomes did it, so why shouldn't
we do it. So, help us understand why -- what -- what really is unique here that outweighs
the principles that you -- that you were a part of that created the -- this particular -- not a
requirement, but it's a pretty clear direction that any application should comply with this
Ten Mile plan and -- and why granting you a waiver doesn't really grant a waiver to anyone
else along Franklin that could -- the end result being a bunch of separate projects that
lead to a long strip of garage fronts, which is exactly what that -- that provision was
intended to avoid.
Schultz: Yeah. Councilman Borton, thanks for the -- thanks for the question. If you are
talking about along Franklin Road, we have a pretty short section there where -- where
we back up. In my experience in laying out a lot of subdivisions over the years when you
do alleyways, there is always some that the geometry doesn't allow alleyways. You
usually have your perimeter has gone alley, the interior is alley and you have a mix and
that's why I'm a little surprised staff's digging in as deep as they are on the exact -- a
hundred percent of all units must be this, especially when it's something -- I don't even --
I don't have a picture of one of those houses that has a garage 20 feet back from the front
of the house and we are not talking about -- anything about driveways here, we are not
talking -- we have 20 foot driveways and the -- the structure is 20 feet back. That's -- we
have got that covered. We are talking about from that point back the garage has to be
another 20 feet back. I don't know what that looks like. Staff doesn't know what that looks
like. Somehow in that Ten Mile plan -- and I can tell you from all the other subdivisions
that have been approved before, across the street, next door and some other ones like
that, they have a good mix and the ones that are front loaded have -- have some nice
vertical differentiation like we have. They have a little bit of a setback or front forward on
the upper level. They have got porches and patios and knees and eyebrows and all those
words I don't know about the architects use, but at the end of the day they don't have 20
foot garages setback from the front of the house. They don't. And so I'm a little bit
concerned that it's in there, that -- that it's being interpreted so -- so harshly, I guess, in
that particular case and I mean no disrespect to the Ten Mile plan. I was involved in it
and I was in the steering committee on it and when we did Baraya and we actually
introduced architectural guidelines to help Baraya that talked about having at least a two
foot vertical offset between the upper and lower and all these features that you see here
and I think that -- I think that zero got added to that too somehow. I'm not sure. And I
mean that seriously and, you know, not -- not -- not -- not -- it's just -- I don't know how it
got in there and it's just -- if you look at anywhere else out there in the Ten Mile plan they
don't have that. So, in this particular case where we back up to -- we did it everywhere
we could. We did the alleys everywhere we could in this thing. Where we back up to
Franklin Road we could -- we could front those out onto up Franklin, you know, we could
use that as a -- as the front door without a berm. We didn't think it was appropriate in this
particular case, because it would be on a major arterial in this case if we fronted out that
way. So, we are trading now -- we could have done a front door on Franklin, these could
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have been the same exact units we have in our entryway and we said, no, and staff and
P&Z all agreed, no, we would rather have a berm and a -- and a fence there instead of,
you know, having those units face out onto Franklin.
Borton: Matt?
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Schultz: So, again, I -- I think the intent was to -- to honor the Ten Mile plan was to get
as much as you could in there for -- non-front loaded and we have done that.
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Schultz: So, I --
Borton: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Matt, I appreciate that background and I will leave you
with a question that maybe you can come back with at the end after public, but what I was
just trying to get my head around was is it your perspective that it's a requirement of the
plan that you are requesting a waiver from or is it your perspective that you don't believe
a waiver is necessary because the plan doesn't really require it. And you can answer that
at the tail end. But that's what I was trying to get around, because I was more concerned
with -- it requires it and you needed a waiver, but if your perspective is you don't think that
the Ten Mile plan actually requires what's being asked of you, then, no waiver would be
necessary and I wouldn't have as much concern that some exception could be replicated
elsewhere. So, we can -- we can cover that at the back end, too.
Schultz: Appreciate that. We will just see what else comes out. Thanks.
Borton: Okay. Thanks, Matt.
Simison: Council Woman Strader, do you still have a question?
Strader: No. I think that was along the lines of what -- what my question was. I -- I guess
it's -- what I was struggling with a little bit -- I hear that other projects have not met this
design requirement. It sounds like maybe the design requirement for a hundred percent
isn't workable, but it's hard to contextualize if I haven't seen what's possible. I mean so if
-- if staff has some, you know, more innovative thinking about design that we are just not
seeing as part of the Ten Mile plan that we had sort of envisioned or is it just that -- for a
parcel of this size it's an unworkable requirement, I -- I kind of want to hear staff's opinion
about, you know, should -- or should we really be asking people to do something more
innovative in their design, is it really-- is it realistic that it's difficult to meet this requirement
and would -- a hard requirement for 65 percent, you know, be something that makes
sense here from staff's perspective.
Simison: And, Sonya, just to add on to that question, the applicant made a comment
about is it a typo and/or do we have examples. I have been trying to rack my brain about
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a 20 foot -- I think my house is probably 14 to 15, but I'm just curious.
Allen: Mr. Mayor, Council Woman Strader, Council, I will respond to the Mayor's question
first. All garages -- the face of garages are required to be setback 20 feet from the back
of curb if there is a detached sidewalk or the back of sidewalk if it's attached and that
allows adequate room for a car to be parked on the parking pad without hanging out over
the sidewalk where pedestrians are at. So, in this case there the R-15 district has a ten
foot building setback to living area and a 20 foot setback to face of garage. So, I believe
that these are proposed -- the living area is proposed -- basically it's on the same plane
at 20 feet. I can't speak to if it was a typo or not. As far as I'm aware it's not a typo. The
intent is to have some variety in the -- in the wall planes and to make the elevations less
garage dominated and more traditional neighborhood design. I was not involved in the
Ten Mile plan, though, so I -- that's all I can offer.
Simison: Were we able to find -- are there renderings or examples of these types of
elevations as --
Allen: I do not have any. In order to do this the lots would have to be wider likely, which
has an effect on the overall density. You know, it would decrease the density if we did
that and with the types of dwelling units proposed, then, it would likely kick the density
below that desired in the Ten Mile plan or it would be close anyway. I'm not sure. Maybe
the applicant can speak to that if he --
Simison: And, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to hijack Council Woman Strader's question, just
tried to add to it, but I want to make sure she gets her questions answered as well.
Allen: Yeah. I believe I responded to her questions that she asked. Correct me if I'm
wrong, Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Yeah. I think we had the same question. It was like show me what I'm not
seeing, which is certainly a difficult request, but if I haven't see something innovative that
-- that is a way of accomplishing this -- I guess my next question would more be to the
applicant, you know, it sounds like 65 percent of your units are trying to meet the spirit of
this requirement. Are there additional things you could do that don't involve 20 feet that
would make this less garage dominant? So, like I'm looking at the rendering in the lower
left-hand corner, I think if I was walking past that I would be seeing a lot of garage. Is
there another way of trying to accomplish the spirit of what we are trying to do is break up
this sort of visual of garages.
Schultz: All right. Council Woman Strader, thank you. Sonya, can you flip back to the
ones that are -- that do -- that do meet the -- I'm tired of looking at those right now. Yeah.
There is kind of more the traditional -- as you walk along all front doors and windows and
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porches along our main entry road and, then, the bottom is actually what you would see
from the -- the alley, from the public alley, which you are always going to see a garage
somewhere, just where is it. In this case it's -- it's off the alley -- drive down the alley you
will see a bunch of garages. You drive down the main road you won't. As you first drive
in that's what you are going to see is just what you see in the upper left-hand corner. You
look right or left you will see kind of what looks like the bottom -- the bottom one. Staff
did have us break up those garages, which we didn't really like so much in the two -- two
bays, if you will, instead of one large garage door, which -- it depends on your opinion
whether that helps or not, you know, showing them more individual garages or less bigger
doors, but that was one of the -- one of the -- yeah, it was one of the suggestions that
they get broken up and so what you see here is an evolution that went back and forth
before the final P&Z hearing between the architects and staff on how they could dress
these up to the better. To your point, Council Woman Strader, you know, what can we do
instead of doing that and if you could -- if you could go back to that original one, Sonya,
that we were staring at for a long time with -- these are the ones -- these are actually the
-- there is -- there is only two of these. There is one of these at the very east -- southeast
corner and there is one in the northwest corner. If you could flip back one, Sonya. I think
it's the four-plex front loads. Yeah. That's where those two were. Thanks. And if you
could put that one -- yeah. This is more I believe -- yeah. There is two different options
here. No. What -- what's going on here? I'm not sure what's going on here. But I think
the idea was this more shows the floor and maybe there is two different options on the
floor. But kind of breaking it up showing those --those overhangs over the garages, which
you don't have to do, you know. But that breaks up that straight front vertical plane that
you sometimes get, which doesn't look very good. And so -- so those -- those overhangs
which create kind of a porch look over the garage, if you look at the roof line above it there
is some articulation on that to break up that front facade. So, a lot of these things were
done to -- to -- to -- to counteract that. Now, back to this whole 20 foot back, I can't find it
either. I don't know what it looks like. If we had to -- if we had to, you know, lose five or
six lots and turn a few units sideways on Franklin, I'm sure -- I'm still not sure what it would
look like. But I do know that it would be counterproductive to the idea of efficiency in
housing, which is what the Ten Mile plan is all about. So, that's why -- and I hate to see
it and I hate to see us, you know, debating on this one issue. I know P&Z was like, yeah,
we are -- we are -- we like this a lot and we are okay with -- you know, with it being waived
if it needs to be waived. You know, if that is, indeed, the -- the -- the mechanism that
needs to be applied here. But back to Joe Borton's question about how do we prevent
this from happening either way. There is only one little parcel to the -- to the east of us,
it's about one acre, and there is a couple acres to the west and I think that those may be
able to incorporate a cap and half or a portion and still meet the spirit of the Ten Mile and
they may ask for the same thing we did, which was instead of fronting these units out onto
Franklin, which is a major arterial, let's grant the waiver, if you will, and put a berm there
and that's kind of a trade off in particular. So, I don't think you open up a can of worms
with other -- other sites in the Ten Mile plan by doing this. It's a very location specific
situation that I think we provided a good solution to.
Strader: Thanks.
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Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Maybe changing gears. Matt, can we talk a little bit
about -- right. Click -- click like maybe a private -- Sonya, if you wouldn't mind pulling up
the -- maybe the parking map that you had. Perfect. So, I was trying to map -- I was
trying to understand on this map I see on the left-hand side public and private.
Schultz: That private shouldn't be there, Mr. Cavener. I'm sorry. It was a typo. It's a
public alley. Both of them are public alleys. That--we used to have a private drive before
-- before Bottles got involved and made me jockey some stuff around and that's what I
got left in there. Sorry about the confusion. But that is -- that is -- that is public alley on
both sides and, then, that -- the red area is a full width detached sidewalk. You can park
on the road there where the -- where we could show on-street parking.
Cavener: Okay. Thanks. And, Sonya, can you maybe advance a slide that shows the
landscape layout. Great. So, Matt, help me -- when you took a look at this -- recognize
there are some really unique challenges with this piece of land.
Schultz: Yeah.
Cavener: You know that I -- I'm always more supportive of more on-street parking than
less.
Schultz: Uh-huh.
Cavener: I'm just curious from that alley if there were architectural challenges or elevation
challenges that kind of prevented doing that alley as a -- as a public street that would
allow for some on-street parking?
Schultz: Councilman Cavener, we just looked at it from going east -- excuse me -- west
to east. You know, hey, we know we need alleys on both sides of this thing, so let's just
lay this out all the way across, what we have left on the east side is -- is either open space
or parking. I mean we could put more parking in that open space area over there off the
alley where we -- where we are showing the playground. There is room in there to add
probably about five to eight more spaces and still maintain the -- the playground and still
maintain that if -- if we think we need some more. We thought having an extra 30 was
good, but I did look at it that that -- that open space over there is very very ample and you
can't front lots onto it, so may as well put -- you could put some parking in it potentially.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor. I wonder -- and, you know, human nature is -- is kind of a funny
thing. I feel like you are going to get some parking there whether it's allowed or not. We
see that, you know, in developments large and small that for whatever reason people
don't walk or ride a bike or roller skate or whatever to their open space, they sometimes
drive over there and does that create an unnecessary challenge?
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Schultz: That -- that open space on the -- on the east side now -- I mean it's an easy --
Cavener: Yeah.
Schultz: It's an easy thing to do. The geometrics work. My -- it's been a while since I
looked at it, but it was something between five and eight spots that fit no sweat in there
and still -- still maintain ample open space, room for the playground, all that good stuff.
Cavener: It's like you anticipated my next question. Is it wouldn't impact your open --
your -- your open space requirements. You could kick it back.
Schultz: No. Yeah. We could take it down a little bit.
Cavener: Okay.
Simison: Council, any further questions? Okay. Thank you. This is a public hearing.
Madam Clerk, did we have anyone sign up?
Weatherly: Mr. Mayor, we did not.
Simison: Okay. Is there anybody in the public who would like to testify on this application
or is there anybody online who would like to provide virtual testimony using the Zoom
app? If so just click the raise your hand button. Give this a second see if anybody -- don't
see anybody in the audience looking to testify. Madam Clerk, if you would just confirm
we have no one that's raised their hand.
Weatherly: Mr. Mayor, confirmed.
Simison: Okay. Then, Mr. Schultz, any last comments?
Schultz: I think I was able to squeeze in Mr. Borton's answer and Ms. Strader's question.
I'm sorry I commingled them. But I -- I tried to get it all answered there about why -- why
I don't think that this is a special exception if you do approve this as -- as submitted and
proposed. We -- just a reminder we -- we would like to get that -- that art requirement
waive if possible. And if not we will think of something, but -- yeah. That's all. Thanks.
Simison: Thank you.
Bernt: Mr. Schultz? Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: Mr. Schultz, are you still there?
Schultz: I am.
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Bernt: How are you doing, man?
Schultz: Good.
Bernt: Good. Good to see you again. One question for you. So, Ms. Strader asked a
question regard to the spirit of the ask. Would you be opposed to moving that set -- you
know, the garage back five feet or more just to see what that looks like or see -- you know,
to -- to coincide with what the Ten Mile specific plan is asking for?
Schultz: Councilman Bernt, thank you for the question and I don't want to say no, you
know. I definitely won't say, yeah, five feet, big deal. But I -- at the same time I -- I think
that with the additional architectural features we accomplish that statement ten of
breaking up that front plane, which is really the --the intent, because there was some bad
architecture going around 15 years ago. I don't know if you remember. Some really bad
vertical two story, jack-o-lantern looking garage door, two windows, vertical 20 feet and I
-- you know, it -- we are not going to mention any names, but, you know, if that was real
back then and that -- and we had some architectural guidelines that we submitted that
broke up that front plane -- it didn't say anything about 20. It did say something about
two. At least breaking it out by two and I understand five, which, okay, maybe we could
make a perfect five, but -- but -- sure. I'm sure we could do --
Bernt: So, what -- Mr. Mayor, follow up.
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: So, by moving it back five would that just move the back of the house more or
would that encroach into living space? How would that -- I -- there was a question asked
before about what does this look like and I'm trying to picture this in my mind as well.
Schultz: I think the idea is to break up the front plane. So, it's not moving the whole
house back five feet, it's -- it's breaking up that top story and the bottom story, you know,
the breaking it up. So, what that would look like would be like Sonya said, the -- the code
allows living space to be within ten feet of the back of walk and we do that all the time,
even garage frontage stuff, if they are wider. In this case they are narrow, so there is not
a lot of living space to push out on the side of the garage, but on a wider lot you push out
the front. That still doesn't talk to this 20 foot from the -- from the front of the house. I --
you know, I guess that might be an extra ten feet. I don't know. It's -- it's -- it's just kind
of a -- it's kind of a different deal that I can't conceptualize either, but I think it's about
breaking up that front plane and our architectural features even before you asked me that
five foot question we believe accomplished that and that's working between staff and the
architect that, hey, if we can't get it can you give us something else and that's what they
came back -- I didn't get in the middle of it. Hey, man, give me your best shot and that's
what they came up with was those architectural features.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
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Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Schultz: There is design review required on this -- sorry about that. There is a design
review application after this required on this, but hopefully we wouldn't have that 20 foot
back requirement. But everything else would still be design review -- reviewed.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: One of the things I have noticed -- I used to commute a little bit down Ustick
Road and there is -- there is -- it's in the city of Boise and one concern I see with those
homes abutting against Franklin -- and if we require some changes to that, these homes
-- it's a small development, in-fill structure, ten to 12 homes on each side with -- with an
alley, but they move those homes -- as Mr. Schultz was saying, they want a berm, they
want to have some -- some yard. They moved them right up to the sidewalk and that's
their front door and Ustick now is very very busy and I look at that -- I drive past and I
thought those poor people -- it is an area of no use. You cannot sit out there on the porch.
They have a front door and a little porch and the traffic and you are just not that far away.
I think there is detached sidewalk, but it just -- traffic is zooming by and so all they have
is the back and I much prefer having a berm and the ability for people to have some sort
of backyard, some private space, to do that, even though it might sacrifice the fact that
these -- these 12, 13 -- I can't remember the count right there along Franklin -- has -- you
know, we -- we sacrifice a 20 foot -- extra 20 feet and have a 40 foot long driveway for a
home that has -- has no yard whatsoever. So, it puts more pressure on the open space.
But that's just an observation I had that for a home just like that, same setting, busy street,
same type site type of home right up -- right up against a major -- major road and I did
find it ironic that as Councilman Cavener was talking about, you know, parking space,
which we are always concerned about is it adequate, we are within the Ten Mile plan and
our whole goal there is to create more walkability, so we are creating more parking space.
So, it's just an interesting dynamic. And my other comment -- I think when it comes to
public art -- yeah, I'm surprised about that. Nothing to hang my hat over and if -- if Mr.
Schultz gets this, this is his one opportunity to do a statue of himself right there as public
art. So, you go with that.
Simison: Thank you, Councilman Hoaglun. Since the -- there is a song, all I can think
about from Councilman Cavener's comments was they are going to pave paradise and
put in a parking lot and taking away open space and greenery from people for parking is
a struggle for me personally, no matter what the size in this case, as we know that that's
what people want -- are asking more of.
Strader: One more question.
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Question for the applicant. Looking at some of the renderings and maybe back
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to the question about how much do we want people in Ten Mile and denser housing to
rely on cars versus other modes of transportation. Are some of the garages double
garages or are they -- are each of those designated to an individual townhome?
Schultz: Council Woman Strader, those are -- those are all two car garage with each
townhome. So, there is -- there is plenty of parking and so there is -- there is the
argument, like you say, are we encouraging pedestrian activity by giving them plenty of
parking space and in all actuality people park one car in there, if at all, and they store
some stuff in there and, then, they use their-- their driveway to park the cars and -- I don't
know. It's -- it's promoting walkability by eliminating driveway -- or, you know, garage
space. I don't know. We are kind of trying to push up the values and the sizes and it --
we will see how this works out here, you know. That's why we had to throw the amenity
in there we thought was we didn't want to -- we didn't want to skim on by, might do
something nice, so we are going for size and amenity and still -- still had some density
and so that -- it's a little bit of a puzzle, but we think we have been able to kind of hit with
this one, so --
Strader: Follow up.
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: So, one issue that we have run into --there is a concern that even though people
have a garage for their car it becomes their-- it's a Councilman Cavener thing and I have
taken it to heart. It becomes -- like this garage becomes their storage facility. Can a car
-- I mean maybe not a giant truck, but can a car still fit in these driveways if we don't have
the setback that's normally required?
Schultz: Yes. Thanks, Council Woman Strader. These are all your standard 20 feet --
you are not going to get your F-350 -- your F-350 is probably get an overhang a foot or
two, but your standard car fits great, you know, and this is your standard driveway
setback. You will see on all the homes are doing an R-4 even or R-8. I mean this is it,
you know, and so it's a standard 20 foot from the back of curb that these builders -- you
know, sometimes they will do 25, but usually they go up to 20 and if a guy has a really
really long truck it's -- it's -- he's hanging a little bit into the sidewalk. But other than that
they fit.
Strader: Thanks.
Bongiorno: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Mr. Bongiorno.
Bongiorno: Mayor and City Council -- Council Woman Strader -- and Cavener, this one,
obviously, is a big thing for me with the parking and Matt and I have talked many many
times about parking and those 20 foot alleys, you know, will be signed, you know, no
parking fire lane, which is enforceable by Meridian PD, because I have a certain
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development down off Records that they will park three in the driveway. They will put two
in the driveway and, then, they will park a third halfway in the street across the back. So,
we have had many many discussions with our developers and -- and I'm pushing that no
parking fire lane sign, because it's in our city code that police can write a ticket against it,
so -- and, then, obviously, we are encouraging the HOAs to do their own managing of
parking themselves. But it's -- it always seems to be an issue and that's why, you know,
we are trying to show you these parking plans and stuff ahead of time just to make sure
that, you know, everybody is happy with what's being developed.
Simison: Council, any further questions or do I have any motions?
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: I would move that we close the public hearing for H-2020-0039, Item 6-B.
Cavener: Second.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. Is there any
discussion on the motion? If not, all those in favor signify by saying aye. Those opposed
nay. The ayes have it.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Hoaglun: Well, Mr. Mayor, I will take a stab at this one.
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: I was reading through the minutes from the Planning and Zoning Commission
meeting and it -- it -- it was -- not knowing what the plan was before that was -- did not
come before Council, it was interesting to note that this --according to the Commissioners
had high praise for this plan over the -- over the previous plan and there is certain
elements that really does help for connectivity and I'm glad to see that works out here,
because that can be very difficult and can stop a plan in its tracks -- that he was able to
work out with neighbors on both sides to work out access issues and we have emergency
access and a temporary entryway from -- from Franklin that will eventually close up and
-- and the -- really for five acres -- you know, you look at it as an in-fill project, even though
it's the first one there. It's one that lays out very nicely, gives ample open space, and a
range of houses that I think will -- will work for people and so with that thinking, Mr. Mayor,
I would move approval of H-2020-0039 and that item that approved the waiver of the DA,
provision number A.F as requested and that all other items as presented in the staff report
for hearing date June 23rd be included in the approval.
Cavener: I'll second.
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Borton: Second.
Simison: I have a motion and a second. Is there any discussion on the motion?
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: A question for Council Member Hoaglun. I didn't know if his motion -- and
maybe he touched on it or maybe I missed it. Anything included in your motion regarding
the production of the open space around the playground area for additional parking?
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor, Councilman Cavener, if that's some -- you know, you truly think is
necessary. I didn't see it as necessary. I mean there is 32 parking spaces and it's that
give up open space for parking, you know, and that--you know, that's one of those things
-- that's just kind of in the eye of the beholder. If you think it's necessary, you know, I'm
not opposed to that. You know, I could be swayed. But to me the -- the value of the open
space and those amenities with the 32 parking spaces that are extra on top of the
driveways just -- yeah.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: I just -- I appreciate Council Member Hoaglun's comments. It's, obviously, not
I think the most critical element of this. Just more trying to get clarification on the motion.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: I think it's tough -- it's a tough balance. I think on this one I would rather see the
emphasis on the open space and hope -- hope that the residents will embrace more sort
of pedestrian mindset. We will have to see. I think for me on this one, one important
consideration -- I know we have some limited capacity in these schools. I think our next
discussion we will have a more robust discussion about the school's low unit count relative
to the number of students coming in and this is an area that we have planned on having
density and so I think that's why I'm supportive of it. It seems pretty well thought out. I
just ask the applicant to try during the design portion of the review with staff to try to do
what you can to get everybody feeling good that you are meeting the spirit of the Ten Mile
design, what it was intended to meet. So, that's it.
Hoaglun: And, Mr. Mayor, I didn't include it in my motion, because I think it's part of the
process already, just the fact that the applicant would work with staff on the placement of
the public art and be part of the streetscape. I don't think that was required to be in the
motion, but that was my thinking on that as well.
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Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton. I agree with the motion and the reasoning behind it. I think
it's -- it's very sound and in the application makes sense. I in particular appreciate staff's
adherence to the -- to the Ten Mile plan and -- and its directives. I think Matt has done a
good job in -- in walking the line and tie sort of goes to the applicant in my eyes on this
one with regards to maybe some unique features with this in-fill project. It's small size.
It's a small percentage of product that is implicated with this 20 foot driveway issue. I
think it's going to be the rare exception when those components of the Ten Mile plan are
waived. This might be one of those rare situations. So, I'm worried about precedent, but
I think the applicant's done a good job in trying to craft how this one is unique enough that
it warrants that waiver. So, that's -- that's one of the reasons, among others, that I'm
supportive of the application.
Allen: Mr. Mayor? Excuse me. May I clarify the motion? The only change to the staff
report that I caught was the change to development agreement provision A.F to not
require the garage to be set back 20 feet from the living area facade. Was that correct,
Councilman Hoaglun?
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor, Sonya, yes, that was correct.
Allen: Thank you.
Hoaglun: And to follow up, Mr. Mayor, do I need to include about the public art placement?
Allen: That is already a provision in the development agreement.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor, Sonya, that's what I thought. So, I thought we are good there.
Allen: Yeah.
Hoaglun: Thank you.
Simison: Council, any further discussion on the motion? If not, the clerk will call the roll.
Roll call: Bernt, yea; Borton, yea; Cavener, yea; Hoaglun, yea; Strader, yea; Perreault,
absent.
Simison: All ayes. Motion carries. Thank you.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Simison: Council, I'm going to -- we didn't really get a break between. Does anybody
need a five minute recess before we go into the last one or do people just want to go?
Cavener: Mr. Mayor, I'm comfortable with moving forward if the Council is, but if someone
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wants to take a quick break I'm supportive of that as well.
C. Public Hearing for Tanner Creek Subdivision (H-2020-0024)
by Schultz Development, Located at 675 W. Waltman Ln.
1. Request: Modification to the Existing Development
Agreement Inst. #108131100), which allows
commercial/office/hotel uses, for the purpose of replacing the
agreement with a new agreement allowing a mix of single-
family and multi-family residential uses to develop on the
site;
2. Request: A Rezone of a total of 38.47 acres of land from the
CG to the R-8 (10.13 acres), R-15 (12.20 acres) and R-40
(16.14 acres) zoning districts;
3. Request: A Preliminary Plat consisting of 142 buildable lots
and 18 common lots on 37.87 acres of land in the R-8, R-15
and R-40 zoning districts; and,
4. Request: A Conditional use permit for a multi-family
development consisting of 272 residential units on 16.14
acres of land in the R-40 zoning district.
Simison: I don't see anybody requesting a break, so with that we will move on to -- sorry,
I got to get back to my right piece of paperwork. I can't use my fingers to lick my -- Item
6-C, a public hearing for Tanner Creek Subdivision, H-2020-0024. I will open this public
hearing with staff comments.
Allen: Mr. Mayor, Council, the next item and the final item before you tonight is a request
for a development agreement modification, a rezone, a preliminary plat and a conditional
use permit. This site consists of 38 acres of land. It's zoned C-G and it's located at 675
West Waltman Lane, west of Meridian Road on the north side of I-84. This property was
annexed back in 2008 with a concept plan for a commercial development consisting of
commercial, office, and hotel uses. However, the property was not developed as planned.
In 2018 a plan was submitted very similar to that proposed with the subject application
that was denied. At that time the property was designated on the future land use map as
commercial and a map amendment to medium high density residential was proposed.
Because the city was working on a new Comprehensive Plan for the city at that time,
which included changes to the future land use map, Council determined it was not in the
best interest of the city to approve the application at that time and preferred the applicant
participate in the Comprehensive Plan update that was in process, rather than making
changes to the map outside of that process. As part of that process the future land use
map designation for this site was changed. The current Comprehensive Plan future land
use map designation is medium density residential, which is a three acre strip along the
west boundary of the site as you can see on this map here on your left and mixed use
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community on the remainder of the site. The applicant is requesting a modification to the
existing development agreement to replace the agreement with a new agreement
allowing a mix of single family residential detached, townhomes, and multi-family
residential apartment uses to develop on the side in place of the commercial development
previously proposed. The existing development agreement includes two different
conceptual development plans as shown, which depict 400,000 square feet of
professional office, hotel, big box retail and smaller retail spaces. The proposed
development plan as shown depicts a mix of single family residential, townhome, and
multi-family residential uses, which will provide a transition, zoning, and uses to the
existing homes to the west and existing and future residential uses to the north with multi-
family as a transition to future commercial and office uses to the east. Because the
development plan for this site has completely changed from the concept commercial
development previously approved and the terms of the agreement are no longer
applicable, staff is supportive of the request for a new development agreement to replace
the existing one. A rezone of 38.47 acres of land from the C-G to the R-8 district, which
consists of 10.13 acres, the R-15 district, which consists of 12.2 acres, and the R-40
district, which consists of 16.14 acres is proposed consistent with the Comprehensive
Plan future land use map designations for this site. A preliminary plat is proposed
consisting of 142 buildable lots and 18 common lots on 38 acres of land. The plat is
proposed to develop in four phases as shown on the phasing plan on the right. The off-
site construction of a bridge over the Ten Mile Creek and extension of Corporate Drive
from the north to Waltman Lane with a detached five foot sidewalk along the east side of
the street is proposed to take place prior to issuance of building permits in phase one.
The off-site replacement of the bridge over the Ten Mile Creek and widening of Waltman
Lane and construction of a five foot wide detached sidewalk along the north side of
Waltman to Meridian Road is proposed prior to issuance of building permits in phase three
and construction of the berm along 1-84 with associated phases three and four. Because
noise from the freeway will affect future residents in this area, staff is recommending noise
abatement in the form of a berm and wall as proposed is constructed in its entirety with
the first phase of development as a provision of the development agreement. Additionally,
staff recommends the Waltman Lane improvements, including the bridge, take place prior
to issuance of building permits in phase two, rather than phase three as originally
proposed. A conditional use permit for a multi-family development consisting of 272
apartment units on 16 acres of land in the R-4 zoning district is proposed. Access is
proposed via the extension of Ruddy Drive, a local street at the west boundary of this site,
and two accesses from Waltman Lane, a future collector street at the north boundary of
the site. One public street connection in the single family residential portion and one
driveway connection in the multi-family residential portion of the development. Public
streets and alleys and common driveways are proposed for internal access within the
single family residential portion of the site with private driveways within the multi-family
residential portion. Parking is proposed for the multi-family development in excess of the
minimum UDC standards. A total of 518 spaces are required and 548 spaces are
proposed for a total of 30 extra spaces. A detached ten foot wide sidewalk is planned
along the south side of Waltman Lane. Internal pedestrian pathways are proposed
through the central common area to amenities in the single family portion of the
development and provide connectivity to the common areas and amenities in the multi-
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family portion. A ten foot wide segment of the city's regional multi-use pathway system is
proposed along the west side of the Ten Mile Creek along the east boundary of the site
with a pedestrian bridge over the creek for interconnectivity with the future commercial
development. A 20 wide landscape street buffer is required on Waltman Lane and a 50
foot wide buffer is required along 1-84. The buffer along Waltman is proposed to contain
a three foot tall berm and the buffer along Interstate 84 is proposed to contain a nine foot
tall berm with a five foot tall wall on top to buffer residential uses from the noise of the
freeway. Qualified open space and site amenities are proposed in excess of UDC
standards. A total of 3.14 acres or 14.3 percent of common open space and amenities
consisting of children's play equipment, pathways, and a basketball court are proposed
in the single family portion and 4.07 acres or 25.7 percent of common area and amenities
consisting of a clubhouse, swimming pool, shade structure, fire pit, internal pathway
segment of the city's regional pathway with a pedestrian bridge across the creek and
children's play equipment are proposed in the multi-family portion. Conceptual building
elevation photos were submitted for the proposed one and two story single family homes
with a mix of alley and front loaded units. Two story townhomes and two and three story
multi-family structures. The three story apartment buildings will be located along the east
boundary adjacent to future commercial uses. Single family homes along the south
boundary will be a single story in height. The Commission recommended approval of the
proposed applications. Matt Schutz, Schultz Development, the applicant's
representative, testified in favor of the application. No one testified in opposition. Clair
Manning commented on the application and written testimony was received from Michael
Swenson and Bill Kissinger. The key issues discussed at the public hearing from public
testimony are as follows: Concern pertaining to the density proposed. Opinion that it's
too high for this area and the resulting traffic -- opinion that traffic -- excuse me -- opinion
that Waltman Lane and the Meridian Road-Waltman Lane intersection can't handle the
amount of traffic the proposed development will generate. Opinion that Ruddy Drive
shouldn't be extended with this development. Concerns pertaining to traffic and safety.
Opposition to the project due to the traffic concerns and feeling that Waltman and the
Waltman-Meridian Road intersection couldn't handle the traffic generated from the
proposed development and the need for sidewalks on both sides of Waltman, not just
one. And, finally, concerns pertaining to emergency access to the site. Overcrowding in
area schools, traffic, provision of sidewalks, bike lanes, preference for the property to
develop with commercial uses to bring more jobs to Meridian. Key issues of discussion
by the Commission were as follows: Question of the applicant if amenities in the multi-
family development, i.e., the clubhouse and swimming pool, will be shared with the single
family portion of the development. The answer was no. Concern pertaining to the
extension of Ruddy Drive and the need for additional traffic calming for safety on Ruddy
Drive and Kearney Avenue to Waltman Lane. Concern that a lot of traffic from the
neighboring subdivision to the west will cut through this development. Concern that only
residential uses and not a mix of uses are proposed on this site as desired in the mixed
use community designated areas. Opinions that the proposed layout provides a good
transition between single family homes and future commercial development to the east.
Desire for -- desire for a larger more concentrated open space area in the multi-family
portion of the site and concern pertaining to the proposed phasing plan and bringing
construction traffic through the built portion and phases one and two to phases three and
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four at the back of the development. The Commission made the following changes to the
staff recommendation. They modified DA provision A-1-C to require all of the
improvements to Waltman Lane west of the Ten Mile Creek bridge to be completed prior
to issuance of building permits in phase two and the off-site reconstruction and widening
of the bridge across the Ten Mile Creek and associated widening of Waltman Lane,
including the off-site construction of a detached five foot wide sidewalk along the north
side of Waltman to Meridian Road to be completed prior to issuance of building permits
in phase three of the development, instead of phase two and include a new condition
requiring traffic calming measures to be implemented where Ruddy Drive connects to the
subdivision at the west boundary the site as allowed by ACHD. Outstanding issues for
Council tonight are as follows: There is three issues. The Commission directed the
applicant to consider and be prepared to discuss the possibility of reconfiguring the open
space area in the multi-family portion to increase the open space in that area. The
Commission requested that Council determine if the density is too high in the R-40 zoned
portion of the site and if they feel comfortable with the number of units proposed and,
finally, the Commission requested the applicant to reconsider and be prepared to discuss
with the Council the phasing plan related to construction traffic going through the
proposed neighborhood, as I previously mentioned, as well as timing of roadway
improvements and whether or not that phasing should be reconfigured. Written testimony
has been received since the Commission hearing from the following folks: Carolyn Harris,
Janice Wright, Kelsee Lorcher, Dan Thayden, Bobby and Lois Owen, Bill Kissinger, Clair
Manning, Duane Wiedenheft and Jane Brandt. Karen Christensen, Kim Coey, Melvin
Watts, Bethany Cluff, Julie Williams and Michael and Nancy Swenson. Overall concerns
pertained to school overcrowding, traffic, preference for commercial or low density mixed
use, rather than residential. Preference for the site to develop with uses that bring more
jobs to the community, instead of high density residential. Staff will stand for any
questions.
Simison: Thank you, Sonya. Council, any questions?
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: I will take a shot at -- I will just get right to the heart of one of my concerns. So,
we may not have an answer for this, but this is the kind of analysis that I think we need to
be able to do with the school district, so I'm looking at the public testimony, the letter that
was received from Kelsee Lorcher and I believe Ms. Lorcher has calculated other
developments that are delivering in the next 12 months, using the school district's formula
how many, you know, seats that -- that that results in. We have some capacity here in
these schools, but really getting to the heart of what has already being delivered today --
and I'm not sure this is accurate, but a certain amount of these kids are going to graduate
per year. If I'm following her math. It looks like at least at the elementary school, taking
that as an example, that with this application we will be 116 students over capacity and I
wanted to know from Sonya if we have sort of checked that math, if that seems consistent
with what we have heard and what we have approved, if she has any commentary on
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that.
Allen: Mr. Mayor, Council Woman Strader, Council, the school district's letter, as you
stated, it shows that enrollment currently is under capacity and due to the amount of
growth in the area is also stated in the school district's letter. The school is actively
building new schools and boundaries are always changing, so it's -- it's really something
that we can't anticipate where these additional kids will land, so to speak.
Simison: Sonya, I believe the question she's trying to get at is did we look at the other
developments that are in this school zoned area to the determine whether or not the
information provided by the citizen was accurate or not.
Allen: I did not, Mr. Mayor.
Simison: Council Woman Strader, is that what you -- that's what you were looking at, if I
wasn't mistaken.
Strader: Yeah. Thank you. That -- I was trying to -- you know, I was excited because the
concept follows what I think we have been hoping to achieve, which is to sort of figure out
where is your capacity in the district. For what we have approved what are we really
looking at here. If there is capacity elsewhere that makes sense to me, but I'm just trying
to get a picture -- you know, it's one thing to say there is capacity, but it's another thing if
-- if we know for sure that -- that this will be far far over capacity. So, I'm just -- I'm trying
to contextualize the numbers I'm looking at. We can come back to this. I have a second
question.
Simison: Council, any other questions for staff at this time?
Strader: Mr. Mayor, maybe one more.
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: If Sonya could just walk through the thinking on how this is consistent with the
future with the FLUM. Like how is this use consistent with the Comprehensive Plan and
just explain -- I'm not seeing commercial. We are really heavily reliant right now on
residential as a city and just explain the thinking of why this kind of fits into what we are
looking for.
Allen: Mr. Mayor and Council Woman Strader, as stated in the staff report, staff's analysis
on consistency with the Comprehensive Plan was based on the adjacent medium density
residential future land use designation, loading, so to speak, to approximately half of this
property, which the new Comprehensive Plan allows without an amendment to the -- to
the map. Staff felt this was appropriate due to the existing single family residential uses
to the west and those to the north existing and future medium density residential uses
planned through the Comprehensive Plan for that area. Staff felt it was more appropriate
than commercial uses on the land that's west of the creek due to traffic and the existing
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nature of the area. The commercial uses previously anticipated to develop on this site
would generate a whole lot more traffic in this area and staff felt it was more appropriate
for the commercial uses to be closer to Meridian Road and the commercial uses on the
north side of Walmart as well.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Yeah. To follow up in that same vein of questioning, you know, I like the fact
that they are stepping where the residential is in -- in volume and, then, the greater volume
will be butting up against commercial and -- and Sonya is correct about the amount of
traffic generated by commercial versus residential. But, Sonya, where I was kind of
curious about -- it's a mixed use and we are just applying -- you know, the applicant is
coming in with just one portion of the mixed use and not the other portion. So, is it possible
a future -- we don't know what a future development would come in for. They could also
apply mixed use, put in one strip mall and the rest could be residential. So, is that
allowed? I mean is it totally up to the Council -- future Commission and Council to
determine what that next parcel will look like or are there things in place in our plan that
said, no, that's the commercial component of this whole thing if we look at it or do they
become two separate entities?
Allen: Mr. Mayor, Councilman Hoaglun, again, staff's recommendation was based on
floating, for lack of a better word, the medium density residential in place of that mixed
use community on the western portion of the property. So, really, the only portion that
would -- would be in the mixed use community is the multi-family, which is a good -- is --
the multi-family with the creek in between provides a nice break and transition to future
commercial development. So, the multi-family is really the only component at this time
proposed in that mixed use. So, to answer your question, we can't control in the future,
you know, what comes in on the -- the remainder of the mixed use community, but what's
proposed with this -- this site is -- staff does feel is consistent with that mixed use
designation.
Hoaglun: Okay. Mr. Mayor, if I might follow up.
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Make sure I interpret that. So, what I hear, Sonya, is really is incumbent upon
us that if we truly want this to be a true mixed use area we will have to be very careful
what comes in for that commercial component to make sure that is more towards the
commercial side, as opposed -- for it to meet the mixed use designation, as opposed to
all residential; is that -- is that correct?
Allen: Mr. Mayor, Councilman Hoaglun, correct. There -- there could be more residential
as part of that. Maybe some, you know, vertical -- vertically integrated commercial office
uses.
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Hoaglun: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Sonya. Appreciate it.
Simison: Council, any additional questions for staff? Okay. If not we will turn this over
to the applicant for 15 minutes. Mr. Schultz.
Schultz: All right. Hey, it's Matt again. 8421 South Ten Mile, Meridian. I have never
gotten this lucky getting two hearings in one night. It's kind of efficient in that regard and
I'm glad to be back after almost two years since -- I think at least three of you were at the
hearing two years ago August -- who is counting -- that we were denied. It was kind of a
somber mood that night. You guys had just gotten out of the big budget hearing meeting
and you were tired and here is a bunch of apartments, comp plan had just started and
what the heck are you doing here, Matt. It's not the time to talk about this kind of stuff. I
mean that's kind of my -- my synopsis of what Sonya said it wasn't in the best interest of
the city at this time given the fact that the comp plan was underway, which I didn't really
like, but I could respect and we did -- we did knuckle down and we were -- we are patient
people and we participated in -- in the -- the comp plan update. Jim Conger was in it.
was in it. Jon Wardle was in it. I think Jorgensen was there, along with some citizens at
large and some city staff and we had a very -- very good banter back and forth about all
the whys and wherefores of development in comp plans and all that good stuff. This one
came out -- I didn't know how it was going to come out in the final plan to be honest with
you after our discussions and it came out mixed use, which was kind of our -- our initial
presentation two years ago was, hey, this is a nonstarter for commercial back here in the
back, over a quarter mile back from Meridian Road, even though it's on the highway
commercial does not like to be that far back. In fact, it -- today it's even worse with, you
know, internet sales and all that, but back in '05 I think that was a very speculative shot
that they were going for way back then there that some big box would come in and do
that and they hit the downturn and it's just a nonstarter. But you do have to look at the
overall corner. Back at that time as well ITD owned -- I think I have got a little diagram
here -- 13 acres on the hard corner with the interchange that was, you know, where they
had their big pile of sand or salt or whatever and, then, that--and, then, redid the Meridian
interchange after this was zoned -- before my time. That got auctioned off to Hawkins
Companies and at the time I was like, man, it's just a matter of time before he assembles
the rest of it and turns it into a commercial project on that corner. I mean why would you
buy that corner and Hawkins is a commercial developer. So, it was interesting before the
P&Z meeting, you know, two years went by -- or almost two years, I went and looked at
the ownerships out there and Hawkins owned a bunch more properties around that piece
and they actually came to our neighborhood meeting and they were concerned that they
would have to do residential, because they would love to do a mixed use commercial and
office. I thought, well, perfect, you know, because we want to do residential, you want to
do that -- I know anything can happen, anything can change. But that's where it's kind of
teed up right now. We both have the same engineer. You haven't seen anything from
them yet. They own everything now, except -- at least the last time I checked -- and things
change -- except for the three acres in our north -- in our common northeast corner where
we abut along the Ten Mile Drain. There is three one acre parcels where there is three
residences there. But they own the other -- oh, let's see here, 11 parcels they have
assembled, so -- and we have assembled nine parcels and that's the good thing about
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these assemblages -- they can be tough, but, obviously, you are not getting something
where you are trying to figure out how to do five acres. You know, we have got -- we have
the ability on both these parcels to do a comprehensive layout plan, integrate the uses,
get all your alleys and roads and open space where you need it and that's what's good
about these bigger parcels. This one is challenging. It's along the highway. We are
proposing single story homes and a large berm and wall along 1-84 and we are setting
back our apartments down there and having them two story along the highway as well to
mitigate that as best we can. But we really do think that this is -- the west residential
portion of a 70 acre, you know, mixed use, if you will, project. We have a pedestrian
connection between the two. Try to encourage pedestrian traffic, which we always like to
do. You know, pedestrian bridge, can't drive over it. Right in the middle. We are going
to shift that to line up with them where ever -- where ever it makes sense. We will work
together on it. But what we have here is something that went through two years ago.
P&Z liked it. ACHD liked it. Got to City Council and the timing was just bad. The timing
is good now and it's the same plan, but better. One of the things when we came in to
staff the second time around we didn't -- they didn't let us rest on our original site plan
and say, hey, can you integrate that -- that resident -- the single family and the apartment
is a little better. This one you see in front of you here we used to have a big central open
space, we had lots on the east side and that driveway connection was shifted to the south
and it just looked very -- like there was just a wall. There was no integration. And we
worked out with staff that, hey, what if you turn the lots to the north, move that access to
the north. We added some parking in that connection area. Some detached sidewalks,
instead of just a road between two lots, and really horizontally integrated, if you will, the
single family and the multi-family, which is hard to do, but we think -- because we do have
a bigger parcel we are able to do it and make our -- you know, make our connections.
Like Sonya said, we have two story apartments on our -- on our west side and as we go
east they step up to three. Overall -- you know, it comes down to a parking thing. Parking
and space, you know. So, we have --we have great open space. We have great parking.
We are actually leaving a few levels on some of those -- those apartments on the table,
so to speak, so we have plenty of parking that we could -- we want to be extra. We want
to be bigger. We want this to be -- to be nicer. I'm not going to lie. Everybody liked it at
-- at P&Z, except -- except traffic. It was all about the traffic. The three dissents we got
it was about traffic. Traffic. Traffic. Traffic. You guys are connecting Ruddy. Can you
not connect Ruddy, you know, which connects into something that historically there was
a bad connection with Waltman to what was the old Meridian Road. It got fixed when
they redid the interchange. Not the interchange, but they did the one way couplet.
Excuse me. When they -- when they redid the one way couplet -- how long ago was that
now? Five or six years ago now. They fixed that whole intersection. So, Waltman could
-- if it was done 20 years ago would have went through. Twenty years ago. But it got cut
off 20 years ago and so here we are kind of -- Waltman is a dead end road. It's a dead
end road right now. It goes back into about 20 acres of county properties that are
surrounded by the city and most of those people -- not-- not that we are -- I'm downplaying
their concerns and everything, but there is -- there is about 20 acres of people back there
that are on county property, surrounded by the city, that want to maintain their little dead
end road back there and I get it. I mean it's -- for being that close to the freeway it's kind
of nice. But I think the greater good is served by making that Ruddy connection, doing
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traffic calming on it to mitigate it as best as possible. Our traffic study originally with
Waltman met all the thresholds without Corporate. We added Corporate. In hindsight
now like we had to to --for our phasing. We have to rip out the Waltman bridge to replace
it, because it's a substandard bridge right now. So, we had to do Corporate anyways.
But at the time when we first did it we weren't planning on doing Corporate, at least my
traffic engineer wasn't. So, all the numbers we have meet it at ACHD, at the traffic
engineer level, at the peer review level, the ITD level, they have even jumped in not really
looking at our site specific, but looked how we impact the interchange and their future
lane percentage and they want to get 150,000 out of this, which we have agreed to for
our percentage of a future lane that hasn't been built yet. But the traffic -- we meet all
that. Even though it may not seem intuitive that we would, that this is going to be, you
know, tragic if we connect it, the improvement to -- by the heavy lifting we are doing on
all these bridges and connections to -- to safety, emergency response, police, fire, as well
as just people wanting to get onto the highway a little quicker than having to go all the
way around Linder and up, it's an improvement. It's going to be maybe painful for some
people, because they didn't have that much traffic. They were on a dead end road and
now they are not. But it is the thing to do from an engineering, from a planning, from a
city planning standpoint it's a little painful, but it is the thing to do. So, we feel like we got
a good residential next that transitions from west to east. The density comes in I think
overall around ten to the acre, which -- it's kind of an R-15, even though we got R-8, R-
15 and R-40, the overall mix is right in there about ten, which isn't too extreme. We feel
like the bridges we are putting in and the offset connections that there was a little bit of
confusion last time, whether -- if we were going to do it or ACHD was going to do it later.
We are going to do it. We are going to do the highway connection in Corporate and a
water line going north in Waltman is going to be extended with a -- there is enough right
of way on the north side, we have since went and surveyed it, that we can get a sidewalk
on the north side. I contacted Valley Regional Transit right up front in this second iteration
and said, hey, do you guys want a bus turnout. Oh, no, no, no. We will never go back
there. But just to make sure people can get out to Meridian Road. We said okay. So,
that's why we are doing the sidewalk out to Meridian Road, so pedestrians -- to take
advantage of Valley Regional Transit to do so without having to walk in the road and, then,
when the commercial develops between us and Meridian Road they will put in the
sidewalk on their side and everything in the world will be complete. But we have got great
amenities. One of the -- you know, in the motion for approval I -- she threw out three or
four things to see if she could bring a few of those people back on the traffic and it just --
it just didn't happen. But one of the -- one of the things was open space. It's an interesting
give and take. It's all about trade offs. And there is a way to give more open space in the
-- in the -- in the -- in the multi-family. Even though we are already at -- excuse me. I got
my stats here in front of me. Even though we are already at 25.7 percent qualified in R-
40, we are way up there in R-40 and overall we are at 18.7 over the whole thing. So,
mean we have really good qualified open space, great pathways, great connections. We
have got all that covered. There is an interesting thing I throw out for your -- your
consideration. If you feel like there needs to be more big or centralized open space and
if you look at the -- the text. She put this on here. Great. Thanks. I just saw that up
online there. It was something I sent to Sonya in an e-mail -- that the building that's right
-- if you could put -- Sonya, put on the -- the bill -- the color rendering, please. There you
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go. So, that building directly west of the pool and clubhouse, 5,000 square foot clubhouse
complex there, great pool, great clubhouse. Two story building. We could -- we could
eliminate that. I propose that we add those two stories back in the -- you know, on two of
the three buildings going south, because those are currently two stories and make them
threes. I think there is still good separation to the -- to the single family residential. It's
over a hundred feet away. So, there is good horizontal separation. So, you know, we
made them two and there was some thought process on the two. Three wouldn't be --
wouldn't be terrible for us. And you would increase -- you would have more larger open
space, I guess, if you will, even though they are pretty wide linear open spaces between
all buildings and pathways and I think it would jump the overall qualified of the whole site
up to like 20 percent from 18.7. So, it's an option. We like what we proposed. We think
the stair stepping of the stories was a good plan, but if that was really important that even
more open space next to that full -- it's -- it's -- it's easy for us. That's an easy thing for us
to do. But other than that, I think we got a great cohesive, pedestrian friendly -- even
though we are not in the Ten Mile plan, I think if you at least -- if you look at the single
family residential portion of it we are about half alley loaded, non-front dominated and
about half not, which kind of goes back to my speech on the last hearing about, hey, all
sites have a mix of front and alley when you do the alleys. But the idea was to have a
variety of housing styles, architectural styles, price points and still kind of fit in with
everybody. So, I hope I'm not ignoring anything. The schools was something that was
mentioned. I know one of the -- I just scanned through those letters today for the hearing
real quick and I apologize if I didn't catch everything, but the Baraya Subdivision was
thrown out there that I have been working for 15 years with the same applicant, you know,
what a -- or same owner, you know, coincidence. He actually has 14 acres set aside over
there that the school district has not moved forward on yet after 15 years for an
elementary school. It's just sitting there. So -- so, even though we may not know exactly
how many students are coming and exactly when, we also don't know how many school
sites the school district's got in their -- in their back pocket that have been set aside and
they are kind of playing -- they are playing their game in trying to stay ahead. Doing a
Clang good job considering the circumstances. One of the fastest growing places in the
country. But at the same time I know they have a 14 acre site on Baraya that doesn't
have a school yet, that he would like them to either buy or not buy, you know, and they
haven't done anything yet with it, so -- so, that kind of plays into the whole school -- school
thing and I know this general area, after our last hearing, had some discussions with
previous Council Members and they are like, hey, this is an area of town that's not and
one of our overly -- oh, my gosh, we are over the top in the school standpoint. Even
though all are challenged, this is one of the lesser challenged if you compare different
areas of town, because it is older, and so we are introducing some new energy really -- I
mean from the schools. It helps the commercial for us to get this kick started. I think it
will be exciting I think after all these years to see something happen on the property and
to move forward with a high quality development, so -- so I guess that's my presentation.
We do agree with staff's recommendation for approval. We like our phasing. We think
phase one and phase two -- maybe go simultaneously. It's kind of like phase 1-A and
phase 1-B and those are all going to go off of Corporate. We are going to have Corporate
in before those go and, then, we are going to have to shut down Waltman to replace that
bridge and replace the bridge, extend that sidewalk out to Meridian Road prior to phase
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three. We do agree with staff. We would propose not doing the berm until phase three
and four. We get it. We are going to do it with phase one. You know, we are -- we do
agree with that.
Simison: Thank you, Matt. Your time is expired.
Schultz: So, yeah, I think -- I think that covers it and I will stand for any questions.
Simison: Council, any questions for the applicant?
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: Matt, I have got two -- two quick questions -- kind of focused questions. The first
one. Can you give us the -- the quick snapshot of specifics in the DAthat -- that reference
what's being done to Corporate Drive for the first building permit in phase one? The
ACHD staff report talks about 40 feet north of the bridge, but 30 feet south. That created
some confusion. So, I don't know why it -- why it says that, but maybe you can give us a
snapshot of what's going to be done on Corporate. And the next question is going to be
about Waltman. Just trying to really frame those two roadway improvements so it's crystal
clear.
Schultz: Great. Thanks, Councilman Borton. I -- I know this was kind of left hanging a
couple years ago. We weren't crystal clear. So, we wanted to make sure we came in this
time and there was no doubt exactly what we were doing and so Corporate Drive right
away got dedicated back with the original commercial site. They--they had a three million
dollar special taxing district. At the time the one way couplet had not been done. They
had -- they had three times as many trips as we have per day, like 10,000. We have like
3,000. And so they had done for the right of ways there. I believe there is 54 feet of right
of way. Within that 54 feet, if it's off site to us, we are going to do a 30 foot paved, borrow
ditch on both side, sidewalk on one side, detached from the 30 feet and build the bridge
connecting to the existing Corporate Drive improvements. So, that will be one continuous
road. And, then, when -- when the property adjacent to Corporate Drive develops they
will do the curb, gutter, drainage, all those things that you really need to integrate with the
specific site that's going in. In the meantime we do the strip, pavement, like we did on
another subdivision in the area. So, that's -- that's Corporate and we want to do all that
work prior to phase one. In fact, before we -- before we get our first building permit we
need to have that stuff done. And so that's what we are going to do first, so that people
have an alternate route in and, then, we are going to -- and that will happen this winter.
You need to do them in the -- in the winters, because the stream flows. So, that's phase
one would happen this winter and then -- and, then, with phase three we propose phase
one and two kind of go maybe potentially at the same time -- doing the Waltman -- taking
the Waltman bridge out, replacing it with a good bridge. We are doing a ten foot detached
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city pathway along the full length of Waltman and detached sidewalk and we are going to
replace that bridge and, then, there will be a crosswalk -- because the north side is where
we have a clear corridor, put a detached sidewalk away from the existing pavement, all
the way out to the existing sidewalk that's Meridian Road. And, then, when -- when the
guys come in -- and ACHD may come back later and put some curb and gutter, you know,
that's kind of -- you know, figure out the drainage a little better. But they supported this.
They kind of called me crazy two years ago when I offered to do it. You know, you
shouldn't have to do that, you know, and I'm like, well, Meridian might get mad at me. And
they did. You know, if -- if -- you know, by doing that -- we don't technically have to, but
we want to to make sure all those issues are handled for your sake, even though
technically it's not required for ACHD's sake. So, I hope that explains it, Councilman
Borton.
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. One quick -- just summarize the Waltman Lane
improvements that are being provided off site. I know staff recommends that it -- that it
begin with a building permit of phase two, instead of three, but regardless of when that
starts are you -- is the existing Waltman Lane staying and you are expanding it to the
south to make it wider? What exactly is happening?
Schultz: Yeah. Sorry about that, Councilman Borton. Along our full frontage it's getting
widened. Along our full frontage, including the bridge, including that -- that little section
on the other side where it says pump house, that's our regional irrigation pump house,
but that will get widened enough to -- between the existing and new pavement, we will
have a lane -- a center turn lane and another lane. I'm not sure if -- I think there is a bike
lane. And, then, we have detached -- detached sidewalks eight to ten feet away with a
ten foot sidewalk and that full frontage will be done.
Borton: Okay.
Schultz: The off-site portion all we are going to do is a sidewalk and that off-site portion
would be something -- again, that's ACHD's existing road. It works for the two lanes until
the Commercial comes in and they are going to need a turn lane and they are going to
need to widen it like we did to match right in, do curb, gutter, sidewalk on their side on the
south side. That north side is an old -- it's in the city, but there is no curb, gutter, sidewalk.
Obviously you can see it on this aerial. It's an old storage -- storage lot that kind of got
done way back when and, unfortunately, they never had to put in the improvements that
typically would have to be put in modern times, like landscape buffers and sidewalks and
all that good stuff, so -- so, we are --we are kind of-- we are doing what they should have
done, again, you know, previously, you know, but it happens.
Borton: Okay. Thanks.
Simison: Councilman Cavener, did you have some questions before?
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Cavener: I did, Mr. Mayor. Council Member Borton touched on some of it, but the piece
that I would like to focus on -- you had touched on in your -- your narrative for Council
tonight about some traffic calming measures.
Schultz: Uh-huh.
Cavener: I didn't see them reflected in the ACHD staff report and I'm just curious if you
can articulate kind of what engagement you have had with -- with the neighbors to the
west about that, as well as, you know, the Corporate Drive extension I think is also an
area that needs some focus and, Matt, I will preface it that, you know, obviously, the City
of Meridian have been talking at great lengths about getting the Linder Road overpass
extended and I think that when that happens we see probably what, again, we have heard
from a lot of the neighbors is concern about Ruddy being that access -- if I'm traveling
north or south on Linder and I want to get to Meridian Road, I'm avoiding Overland or
Franklin and so --
Schultz: Right.
Cavener: -- what traffic calming measures have you discussed with them and what are
you proposing to help mitigate those concerns?
Schultz: Thank you, Councilman Cavener. So, obviously, from day one this is a big deal.
I went in and asked ACHD on day one, hey, can we just not connect this. I just knew that
it was going to be, you know, a bad deal and the answer was pretty obvious, but I still had
to ask. You know, the answer is obvious, that, yes, you do have to connect it. Okay.
tried and I was serious, because I would rather not for my sake, because it opens up all
these issues that we are talking about right now, so -- so -- so, it's interesting -- we didn't
get a lot -- a lot of feedback from those particular neighbors. Most of our feedback -- 98
percent of its been from the Waltman residents. From those particular residents.
However, our site design, at least for our site, again, meets all thresholds for ACHD.
Ruddy slash Kearney as it turns north, we have designed -- you know, you could have
went straight over. I don't know if you noticed in that commercial site they kind of had a
road going straight over to Corporate more or less, that was -- that was more of a straight
shot and more of a, you know, speedway. You know, we -- we did a minimum radius
curve on Ruddy, which is a traffic calming measure. We do have islands at each end and
we are necking down the road to kind of get people to think about going slow right in front
of the curve and there is just not a lot of room before you get to Walmart. So, it's not a
long quarter mile straight run where people are going to get up on staff and go on, you
know, 60 miles an hour. So, from a traffic calming for us we don't -- we think we have
incorporated it. Really what it's about is the people that didn't have any traffic on Waltman,
the -- you know, on a dead end road they are not going to have traffic, you know, and
some of the people that live in the back of this existing subdivision over here to the west
since the mid '90s, you know, being at the back of the subdivision, they are now going to
be in the middle of a subdivision or on the front end of one side of the subdivision. So,
that traffic is going to change.
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Cavener: So --
Schultz: So, one last thing. It's about traffic calming. So, ACHD did put in there -- and
we had a two hour hearing at ACHD the first time around. This time around there are,
hey, we have already been through this. This was a two hour hearing. Neighbors. We
talked about it and you just don't know exactly which road is going to get the most. There
was one road that may get around, you know, nine hundred, a thousand trips, which is
still within thresholds and we are having to set aside 20,000 dollars that may be might get
used for some off- site traffic calming, whether that's speed bumps, having to do a speed
study after this is all built out and so we are setting aside money for that not knowing
exactly how people are going to go. And Linder overpass is going to help us on it-- I think
to get people maybe to some other places that they would otherwise go straight through
to Meridian Road. They might just go to the Linder overpass. So, it's going to help.
Cavener: So, Matt, what I'm hearing is you -- is you kind of feel like you have addressed
the traffic calming within your development. There is 20,000 dollars put into a fund after
the fact for off-site improvement based on traffic usage. The neighbors can request a
traffic study at a certain point in time, either before or after the Linder Road overpass and
those funds can be used to mitigate the impacts of how they are going to use Ruddy and
Waltman and Executive, is that -- or Corporate.
Schultz: And that's exactly what ACHD says in their staff report.
Cavener: Thanks. I -- I did not see that particular piece. I have been flipping through it
to make sure that I didn't miss it, but I must have. So, thank you.
Schultz: It's in there, yes.
Cavener: Eighteen thousand. Not 20.
Schultz: Yeah. I was rounding. Yeah.
Simison: Council, any further questions for the applicant? All right. All right. Thank you
very much. So, Madam Clerk, I know we have people who have signed up to testify this
evening, many with presentations is my understanding, so --
Weatherly: Mr. Mayor, that's correct.
Simison: -- with that I will turn it over to you. If I could just remind all the applicants we
need -- or all the people who come to testify please say your name and address for the
record and you each should be afforded three minutes.
Weatherly: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. The first person who will be joining us via telephone
is Clair Manning and, Clair, if you unmute yourself you should be able to talk. Mr. Mayor,
we are just having a technical difficulty with this citizen so far. Bear with us for a minute.
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Simison: I see we have Clair Manning in the Zoom, not on a telephone, with their hand
raised.
Weatherly: Clair, I'm going to make you a panelist, so that you can talk. It's going to
switch you over. So, please, stay on the line. Don't hang up.
Manning: Hi. Are you able to hear me now?
Weatherly: There we go, Clair. Thank you for your patience. Yes, we can hear you.
Manning: Thank you. My name is Clair Manning. I'm at 650 West Waltman Lane. Were
you able to give me control of the screen? I asked for this earlier. I'm not sure that went
through.
Johnson: Mr. Manning, I don't see that I can give you access. I'm trying to. But I'm happy
to click through for you in the interest of time. You see your presentation on the screen.
Manning: Oh. Okay.
Johnson: Okay.
Manning: Okay. So -- all right. Given that, I will go ahead and go. Good afternoon, Mr.
Mayor and City Council. Before we begin let's take a moment to look at my -- my
motivation. I can see how it would be easy to write us off as a few malcontents trying to
impede progress. However, the fact is we know this area better than most people in
Meridian and we want what is best for the city and at the end of the day we are citizens
you represent, we will be the ones in the next 20 years trying to get out of our driveways
and we will be the ones attending the funerals of the children killed on Ruddy Drive, so I
would ask that you take our testimony seriously as you consider this critical decision. So,
this is a -- this is a very strategic location that goes beyond my neighborhood. This
decision will affect the entire community. For that reason we will need to take a holistic
view of the area. Here at the end of Waltman and the -- the future commercial
development, that's the heart and soul of this city. It's one of the last great pieces of real
estate we have left. As Council Members you have the opportunity to leave a great legacy
here. This could be like the crown jewel of Meridian. Unfortunately, this area has a lot of
constraints you need to consider. Traffic study estimates this development will bring 2,928
trips per day and the target for a new collector is 3,000 trips per day. So, further, this
study does not take anything into account for that future development in that area. This
means you do not have all the data and you already are at your traffic targets. So, I know
the comfortable thing to do here is leave the traffic to ACHD. However, there is really too
much at stake here for you to wait for your next traffic study. So, we need to look outside
our traditional boxes and make sure we are making the right area here. Could you go
ahead and go back one slide, please, Chris. Okay. Thank you. So, you know, personally
I think this traffic is undeveloped. If you take a look to the north that's where the high --
there is already high density three story apartments that will connect via Corporate that
will drive traffic west to Peregrine. The adjacent neighborhood will connect via Ruddy
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Drive. This will result in a large volume of traffic through residential to the freeway. So,
as mentioned before, ACHD has taken a wait and see approach to this, but you can see
the common area Ruddy Drive is prime for an accident. So, we really need to be proactive
before there is one. So, go ahead and advance to the next slide, please. So, leaving this
area let me direct your attention to the left-hand graphic. Those three story high density
apartments will exit on Corporate Drive towards the freeway and a mere 500 feet -- 15
feet later high density traffic from Walmart will merge across three lanes of traffic to the
freeway to enter this area. I will direct you to the graphic on the right. You must use that
left-hand lane where you can only sit about seven cars before you block an entire lane of
traffic into the city. Please advance. So, once on Waltman there is a lot of redesign that
needs to make -- happen to make this Corporate -- Corporate development work. But no
amount of engineering is going to get rid of that left-hand turn into that lane. This means
that you are going to have -- you are always going to struggle with getting cars into this
complex before you block an arterial road intersection. So, for that reason you really need
to carefully limit the amount of traffic -- eastbound traffic you are putting in and putting
that high density development down the street really isn't going to get you there.
Simison: Clair, if you could wrap up, please.
Manning: Yes, sir. So, you might see what -- this is what the traffic's already like. So, I
will go ahead and wrap up now. Next slide. So, unfortunately, this development is not a
good fit for this area. As such I would ask you to deny this application. Please don't let
your legacy be rubber stamping high density developments that the infrastructure cannot
sustain. Rather, I would ask you to take a holistic view of this area and leave a legacy
your grandchildren can be proud of. Thank you. Can I answer any questions for you?
Simison: Thank you. Council, any questions?
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Mr. Manning, thanks for your testimony and joining us virtually tonight. You
made a comment that I'm hoping to get some additional insight. I don't know if you have
got an image you can speak to that, because you -- you talked about the Ruddy common
area being prone for accidents. Can you speak a little bit more about what you referred
to, like what you are meaning about that? And I don't know if you have any imagery that
you can point to to help me understand what you are saying.
Manning: Yeah. Could you go back to that second slide, Chris.
Weatherly: One moment, Mr. Manning.
Manning: Yeah. I don't know if you guys can --
Weatherly: It's just taking a moment to pull it up.
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Manning: Okay. Sure. One back, please. One back from here, please. Okay. So, you
see where that Ruddy Drive arrow is? So, essentially, I believe that -- that entire
neighborhood cut off by Ten Mile Creek is going to probably use this as an access to -- to
Meridian Road. So, as you are going through there there is like a common area. So,
there will be like a large volume of traffic going through there right where like there is a
common area and a lot of kids playing.
Cavener: Thank you.
Simison: Council, any additional questions? Okay. Thank you very much.
Weatherly: Mr. Mayor, next is Joseph --
Simison: We have a Michael Swenson with their hand raised and have they signed up to
testify on this item?
Weatherly: They haven't signed up to testify, but I have noted that their hand is raised.
After the people have gone that have signed up to testify, if it's okay with you, Mr. Mayor,
we will call him.
Simison: Okay.
Johnson: So, this is -- this is handheld two. Can the remote Council hear this okay?
Luke, Liz, do you hear this?
Hoaglun: Luke and Liz, can you hear using that microphone?
Johnson: Testing here.
Cavener: No.
Strader: No.
Cavener: Can't hear anything.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor, will he come back?
Simison: I have never been through that door, so I don't know.
Johnson: Adrienne, can you stop the screen share so I can start it in here.
Weatherly: I don't know what he said.
Simison: He asked you to do the screen share, so we can start it in there.
Hoaglun: Well, Mr. Mayor, while we are getting ready, I will just share a little bit of a history
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here. I have fond memories of this -- this location that Lorchers are going to share. If you
look up on the map above the red square and it says Lyndhurst place, as you come down
to the south there is a brown roof and that was our very first house we owned. We built
-- bought the property. I think it was a stubblefield development back in the early '80s
and those of you old enough to remember the late 70s, early '80s were not good times.
We picked up the lot real cheap. My wife and I newly married and had a little curb to it
and so we built the house, a little walkout basement and a deck and we got to look over
the Lorcher truck farm and is very bucolic and nice -- you know, we were in a subdivision,
but we were out in the open space. So, I understand why people want to preserve what
they have there and with Ten Mile Creek right there it was a very wonderful spot where
we -- our two children were raised in their early years. So, just kind of interesting to see
how things have changed over the years and -- yeah. And so it's -- there you go.
Weatherly: Mr. Mayor, it looks like we are ready to go now.
Simison: All right. Thank you. Thank you for that trip down --
Hoaglun: Memory lane. You're welcome.
Simison: Yes. If you could, please, state your name and address for the record.
Lorcher: All right. Joseph Lorcher. 740 West Waltman Lane.
Simison: You are recognized for three minutes.
Lorcher: Okay. As Brad said, he's looked over my farm when he lived there and -- and
we are still farming it, so I want to make sure and point out that what you see on the
screen with the red around it, that is my place. I am the north person across from the
development that people keep talking about when the north is being developed. I have
no plans to develop my seven and a half acres. We have been here since '75. We still
farm it. We still grow crops. We still plan to grow crops. I have a son that will probably
take over when I'm gone and plan on doing the same thing. So, I want to point out that
Greenhead Street -- stub street is not an option. At the Planning and Zoning they kept
talking about punching Greenhead through. Won't happen. So, just wanted to get that
out. Don't plan on developing. Matt said a couple times when the north -- property to the
north gets developed. That's me. I don't plan on developing. At the meeting they talked
about the same thing. I don't know where any of those ideas came from. There is no
plans for me to develop the seven and a half acres. There we go. This is where it says
that as long as I have more than five acres I can -- and my land is devoted to agriculture
-- I do not use the city water or city sewer and you need written permission for access
through my property. It won't be coming from me. Therefore, Greenhead Street will not
be a second access point to distribute traffic from the west neighborhood. Ruddy Drive
will be the only access point. If you look at the map to the -- on the left, right -- currently
the subdivision to the west of us has four access points onto Linder Road. Once they
open up Ruddy Street that's going to be one going to the east. Probably three-quarters
of that subdivision is going to be going through that one street. And, then, if you look at
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the one that's to the right we have got Ruddy Street going through and turning right on a
curb right in front of the park area. This is where I think where Mr. Manning was talking
about where the death of the children will come is in front of that park where they are
turning on a blind corner right through a park area and there is going to be 3,000 cars a
day going through that area. As far as Waltman Lane is concerned, we got a nice ten foot
sidewalk in front of the development and, then, it shoots across and there is no bike lane,
five foot or six foot sidewalk to the north and they are going to have to cross the street to
get across the street with the traffic that's going on there and same with Corporate Drive,
there will be just a sidewalk. No bicycle lane that will help. So, still we are talking safety
of kids. Waltman Lane right now is like a huge sidewalk. There is at least a hundred
people a day that walk up and down that lane because of the lack of traffic.
Simison: If you can wrap up your testimony.
Lorcher: I'm sorry?
Simison: If you can wrap up your testimony, please.
Lorcher: Okay. In conclusion, with only one access point, all traffic coming from the west
neighborhood will be concentrated on Ruddy Drive and add the development's own traffic
on Waltman Lane and Corporate Drive will make this unsafe. Safety issues for
pedestrians bicycles, are our main concern with all traffic going through Ruddy and onto
Waltman Lane, especially by the proposed park and the crosswalks or the lack thereof.
I'm not opposed to developing these 36 acres, I'm tired of the weeds and the fire hazard
that this land is currently at. I'm opposed to the high density residential development. We
need a low density mixed use development that will follow Meridian's Comprehensive
Plan. I have lived and worked on Waltman Lane since 1975 and would love to see this
gateway to the city be more than high density apartments. It should be a gathering spot
for entertainment and small businesses. Thank you.
Simison: Thank you. Council, any questions?
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Not a question but just a comment. I'm sure Council shares this, but to reassure
you that we have no intention to take your property. It's your private property. You own
it. It's up to you what you do with it. So, we are not going to do that. That's not how it
works. Just wanted to tell you that.
Lorcher: Thank you. What I was kind of -- people keep talking about -- especially Matt
and the -- and the Planning and Zoning Commission's kept talking about how this was
going to be developed, as if it was a done deal, and there is no plan for this to be
developed.
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Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor, I do have one question for Joe.
Simison: Yes, Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Lorcher. Joe Lorcher. I'm sorry, Councilman Borton. Joe, I was just curious
watching you -- you and your brothers work on that truck farm when you were much
younger, are your -- do your kids work that hard still on that truck farm? Because you
guys really put in the hours out there.
Lorcher: My son Joe, he still helps me, and Kelsee worked until the day she turned 18
and said no more. So -- so they did work the farm going through school.
Hoaglun: Thank you, Joe.
Simison: Thank you. Council, anymore questions? Okay. Thank you very much.
Weatherly: Mr. Mayor, next is Sondee Watts. Sondee, if you want to just head through
that door over there, Chris will help you on the other side with your presentation.
Watts: Hi. My name is Sondee Watts -- oh. Are you ready?
Simison: Yes. State your name and address for the record and you have three minutes.
Watts: Okay. Thanks. My name is Sondee Watts. I live at 2099 West Snyder Drive in
Meridian. I will begin with the ACHD policy manual. In Section 7207.33. If a proposed
development only has one access to a public street, that is a local street. A maximum
forecast ADT to be allowed at any point on a local street access is 1,000 and is subject
to Fire Department requirements for the provision of a secondary access. As you can
see here Ruddy Drive connects two local streets and has one access point. Tanner Creek
will provide -- I'm sorry. Tanner Creek will produce 3,019 trips with 90 percent vehicles
traveling east and ten percent vehicles traveling west. Using the same formula as Tanner
Creek used, we can estimate the number of vehicles per day that will be generated from
the number of single family homes that are like located in the west neighborhood. Seven
hundred homes times 9.5 trip rates equals 6,654 total vehicles per day. If only 50 percent
of the neighborhood vehicles travel east, this is an estimated 3,332 total vehicles per day.
With the combined trip from the west neighborhood and Tanner Creek Drive development,
Ruddy Drive will experience 3,633 vehicles per day and Waltman Lane will experience
6,049 vehicle trips per day. In conclusion, Ruddy Drive is a local street connecting to
another local street. Ruddy Drive only has one access point. Greenhead Street is not an
option for a second access. The estimated 3,633 vehicles per day vastly surpasses a
maximum of 1 ,000 ADT allowed. This connection should be subject to the Fire
Department's requirements for the provision of a secondary access. Waltman Lane
infrastructure cannot sustain the estimated 6,049 vehicle trips a day. Ruddy Drive
connection will substantially increase traffic and negatively impact Waltman Lane. The
Waltman Lane-Meridian intersection and at that Meridian-1-84 interchange. One of the
Commissioners from the last meeting expressed their concern that this connection would
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create an unsatisfactory service D or E for Waltman Lane. The sheer volume of additional
vehicles is shocking and will compromise the safety of children, pedestrians, and
bicyclists using Waltman Lane. It is unacceptable. The stub street connection is
irresponsible and does not contribute to smart growth. For this reason please deny this
development. Thank you.
Simison: Thank you. Council, any questions? Okay. Thank you very much.
Weatherly: Mr. Mayor, next to Steve McCarthy.
Simison: And I think we have got a pattern where they do return from the room.
Hoaglun: Yes.
McCarthy: I hope everyone can hear me okay. My name is -- hi. My name is Steve
McCarthy. I live at 10685 Pattie Street. I'm going to talk about the Meridian interchange,
the Waltman entrance, and the traffic congestion studies to show it will not be a safe
transition with additional traffic proposed by this development. As you can see here
residents in three different directions will be coming home by using one left-hand turn lane
into the Waltman Lane's entrance. Drivers have .14 miles to safely get from the off ramp
to the turn lane. That equals to one minute, according to Google. From the Meridian off
ramp you have to cross two lanes to reach the left turn lane. You have one minute to try
and cross over two highly congested lanes to get into the left turn lane during p.m. peak
traffic hours. This does not give the driver the adequate amount of staging and time
needed to execute and accomplish this safely. For us this will disrupt the through traffic
lane going into Meridian, because drivers are trying to get to the left lane and we will
cause traffic to back up. Oh. Sorry. I forgot to go to the slides. All right. This slide here
is showing the actual turn lane. Additional items to consider. The Meridian-Waltman
intersection receives 50,889 vehicles per day and, then, the other statistics that we found
was that the 1-84 Meridian eastbound on ramp is considered the fifth most congested
segment of road in Ada county. Not intersections, not interchange, but actual road. Give
you a second to look at those numbers. The eastbound on ramp received 52,182 annual
weekday traffic volume. The westbound on ramp receives 51,182 annual weekday traffic
volumes. This area is critical to the interchange and intersection function. This is an area
where motorists are responding to the intersection or interchange by accelerating and
maneuvering into the appropriate lanes to solve a complete turn. Access conditions too
close to intersections or interchange ramps can cause serious traffic conflicts and impair
the function of the affected facilities. Drivers make more mistakes and are more likely to
have collisions when they are presented with complex driving situations created by
numerous conflicts. This development and the Ruddy Drive connection will create 3,000
plus new traffic conflicts daily and will add a substantial amount of new traffic to the
already very highly congested intersection interchange. Added traffic will not attract new
businesses or desired communities. This area needs to be protected with open space
and low-dense, mix-use development. By doing this it will reduce and alleviate traffic
during peak hours and distribute the daily traffic throughout the hours of the day. I hope
you all carefully consider the detrimental impact and dangerous risks this development
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will have on traffic, the gateway to the city, and public safety. Please deny this tonight.
Thank you all for your time and do you have any questions?
Simison: Thank you. Council, any questions? Thank you very much.
McCarthy: Thank you.
Weatherly: Mr. Mayor, next is Joe Lorcher.
J.Lorcher: All right. My name is Joe Lorcher and I live at 1182 West Avalon Street and
I'm here to discuss the original vision and master plan of the Southern Gateway
Entertainment and Hospitality District and the Downtown Master Plan is intended to help
identify potential opportunities and strategies for strengthening downtown's role in the
Meridian community in the Treasure Valley. As you can see, the Southern Gateway
Entertainment and Hospitality District is a large part of the master plan and this plan calls
for this district to show zero percent land use for residential. The focus for this district
originally was strictly for commercial use and some examples for this framework of the
Southern Gateway District between Waltman Lane and the freeway should include hotels
and upscale restaurants. This will enforce the -- the vision of the great hospitality from
the City of Meridian and it will be a better visual than a wall. The extensive landscaping
will help show that attractiveness and the beauty of the City of Meridian, which a wall
would not. A multiple purpose and entertainment sporting facility could serve as an
anchor point for cultural and community events, such as concerts, youth sports, festivals,
holiday bazaars and many other community building events and fun fact, Meridian is the
only city in the Treasure Valley that doesn't have a concert venue and all of this would be
a lot more attractive than a wall. These are four focus areas for the Southern Gateway
District that should be focused on. Livability. Create a more -- more places for the
community gathering and entertainment. Touch on this just before and this would be a
great opportunity to make a better culture in Meridian and this is also a golden opportunity
to build a Boise Hawks baseball field, seeings as Boise can't decide on where to put it. It
would be a great attraction from the freeway and it would create a lot of visitors and create
a lot of money for the City of Meridian. Mobility. One thing lacking in Meridian is parking
opportunities for downtown. A parking garage would fit great here and help fill that void.
Prosperity. Improve and attack -- and attract new businesses to Meridian. Sustainability.
Promote and encourage innovative and progressive development. In conclusion, the
Southern Gateway Entrance is the first impression visitors will have of downtown Meridian
from 1-84. It needs to be developed to enhance and beautify the gateway. A wall does
not give a positive first impression. Downtown Meridian is running out of land and we
need to preserve open spaces. This area of land needs to be developed strategically.
We need downtown elements that will contribute to a mixed use urban environment. This
area -- area could potentially promote entertainment and gathering places, which would
attract both local residents and visitors, resulting in economic growth. We have a real
opportunity here to make this a unique and creative and innovative progressive --
progressive development. Let's not waste this opportunity and high dense residency is
highly inappropriate for this area. Please carefully consider the negative impacts that we
have presented, the missed opportunities this development will bring to Meridian and
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deny this development. Thank you.
Simison: Thank you. Council, any questions? Thank you very much.
Weatherly: Mr. Mayor, next is Kelsee Lorcher.
K.Lorcher: My name is Kelsee Lorcher -- oh. My name is Kelsee Lorcher and I live at
2099 West Hunter Drive. First I would like to point out if you look at Melvin Watts' letter
that is submitted in the public comment, on pages five, six and seven, you will see the
formula and it shows the work of the math for the overcrowding a Peregrine Elementary.
Also in the West Ada School District letter for this development they say that the kids from
Tanner Creek might have to go to Pleasant View Elementary and Owyhee High School,
which is eight miles away. You can see that on page four of Melvin Watts' letter. Also the
letter only chose three developments as examples. There is many more happening, so
those -- more kids could already be going to Peregrine by the time Tanner Creek is
finished and also the Linder interchange isn't planned to be complete for another ten to
15 years. So, Waltman Lane will receive the brunt of that neighborhood. Matt Schultz is
relying on Hawkins' land to the east be developed as commercial, so their combined
developments will be mixed use as a whole. We have seen a situation before with
Hawkins and the Stapleton Subdivision where Hawkins owned a piece of land that he
was going to develop commercial, but, then, sold it off to Conger who developed that land
primarily with residential. Therefore, Hawkins plans should not have any influence on a
decision today. In this meeting we have no idea what we will actually do. As you can see
on the map, this area is for mixed use community and the comp plan shows only 20
percent of the development should be residential, not one hundred percent. There are
many sales goals with this development. One is to sustain, enhance, promote and protect
elements that contribute to livability and high quality of life for all Meridian residents and
also objectives and action -- actively implement action items in the Destination Downtown
master plan. Continue to develop and implement the desired vision and special areas --
areas with specific plans and along key transportation corridors and plan for appropriate
mix of land uses to ensure connectivity, livability, and economic vitality. This development
fails to provide safe pathways and bicycle lanes through downtown Meridian. It harms
the city's traffic flow as a gateway of the city. It will overcrowd our public schools and fail
to maximize -- maximize use of in-fill land by utilizing mixed use development and sales
to create economic growth and it fails to uphold the comp plan for a mixed use
development. It is located in a special area with specific plans in the Destination
Downtown Master Plan and need to be protected to reflect those visions. High density
housing is extremely inappropriate for this specific area. Responsible growth solves
problems. Irresponsible growth creates them and this is irresponsible growth. If you
approve this development today you will set a tone to future developers and citizens that
the comp plan and its tools, like the Destination Downtown master plan and Communities
In Motion do not matter. That the last two years of hard work and the 2,000 dollars spent
creating the comp plan hold no meaning or value to Meridan's future growth. Please deny
this development.
Simison: Thank you. Council, any questions? Thank you very much.
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Weatherly: Mr. Mayor, we have Nick Eller next. He will be joining us on the phone. And,
Nick, I have unmuted you and you are welcome to state your name and address, please.
Eller: Yeah. Hopefully you can hear me all right. My name is Nick Eller. I live at 851
West Honker Drive in Meridian. I am in the Mallard Landing Subdivision directly to the
west of this development. And, you know, I got to hand it to those who showed up tonight.
I'm happy they did. I couldn't have said it better. So, I really have to just follow on to what
they have said. You know, traffic is a major concern. Ruddy Drive is a concern. I don't
have a fancy presentation to go through, but one of the items as I was -- that has been
completely overlooked in this since the very beginning is this is getting tucked in at the
very end of Waltman, as was previously described, and, then, we are talking about this
commercial development --well, the commercial development is going to have to do road
improvements, tear up the road, do the sidewalk. So, what happens when this
development is complete and we got to shut down Waltman for the -- you know, these
improvements to be made. All of a sudden everything's back flowing through the Mallard
Landing and Blue Horizon Subdivision back into Linder. Yeah, it's a short period of time,
but, you know, if we got six months of dealing with that, you know, is that worth it. I think
the phasing of this -- one, it's just not the right time. We don't have all the information we
need for the ACHD impact studies of the commercial development, combined with this
development, combined with the development to the west, the Linder freeway crossing.
There is a lot that's just completely unknown. I don't think it's the right time and -- and as
previously described in the other presentation -- or discussed in the previous -- previous
presentation there is so much more we can do with this piece of land. You know, going
through what you just heard do you really think this is the best we can do for Meridian
right up to Gateway? I don't think so. You know, if we approve this, you know, you might
be taking the chance that the commercial development that is bringing the jobs and
bringing community, that -- that could be out the window. So, you know, it's -- it's
something that you have to decide tonight whether you are willing to take that risk and
have another apartment complex. So, that's -- that's essentially where I stand. I stand
with those who live near me. I stand with my community. I stand with most people in
Meridian who will have to pass this every single day.
Simison: Thank you very much. Council, any questions?
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Not a question, I guess just more of a -- of a comment for the record for -- for
Council and for the public attending. I think Mr. Eller contacted a number of us today to
share his concerns. I know it hasn't necessarily been added yet to the -- the record yet,
but I'm sure the clerk will get that addressed and make sure that's included in our packet
as well. I appreciate it.
Simison: Thank you, Councilman Cavener. Council, any further questions? All right.
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Weatherly: Mr. Mayor, I'm going to allow Michael Swenson to talk now and he is the last
one that I see with his hand raised.
Simison: Okay. Mr. Swenson, if you would state your name and address for the record.
Swenson: Okay. This is Michael Swenson. 815 West Waltman. And I can actually give
you -- everybody's hearing me, I'm assume.
Simison: Yes, we are.
Swenson: I can actually give you some history that the -- they actually ran Waltman
through way back in the '90s and it was a disaster. It was like bumper to bumper cars.
This was right at the beginning of Mallard Landing. There is a whole lot more cars out
there and if you look at Mallard Landing it's --there is no through streets, other than Ruddy
maybe, but it's going to be a disaster and people are going to get hurt. If you are looking
at where the school is -- well, the school of Peregrine is on the other side of Linder, so
they are going to have to cross all these streets with people taking a shortcut and if you
look at the roads -- if you take Franklin over to Meridian Road and go to the freeway that
way, that's six stoplights. The proposal for -- for using Waltman, that's wide. What are
they going to do? You know, I think there is some things we should consider. Back in the
old days they were actually going to use Waltman as an emergency access. Well, that
was poorly planned. Well, when they were going to use part of my property and they
offered me 500 dollars for it and I said are you kidding. So, I didn't sell. But they never
were able to get much more than the bicycle through there. So, it's -- it's kind of a disaster.
I think we need to look at this more. I'm -- I mean I think we need to do something. This
should be more than cow pasture. I'm -- I'm on board with that. Should we look at partially
developing this and see what the land development -- development looks like? Should
we use this -- this access as emergency vehicles only? We could do that. That's what
Waltman Lane was supposed to be. But somebody built the fence too close and it never
worked. But we have the advantage to actually do something with it and looking at what's
going to happen in the long term. That's it.
Simison: Okay. Thank you very much. Council, any questions? Okay. Thank you very
much, Mr. Swenson.
Weatherly: Mr. Mayor, we have one more hand in the online audience.
Simison: Okay. And if there is anybody in the audience who would like to testify we will
get to you right after this next person.
Weatherly: Mr. Mayor, this is Denise LaFever.
Simison: Okay. Denise, if you can state your name and address for the record and you
will be recognized for three minutes.
LaFever: Denise LaFever. 6706 North Salvia Way. And I would like to commend you for
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doing Zoom. I think it's awesome. I would like to start by saying I'm not for or against this
project. I attended all the steering committee meetings and Conger and the
representative -- or representative was there for all of the meetings. What I do have an
issue with is going back to the west side of this property and taking a little sliver of mixed
medium -- or medium density and taking that little sliver and floating it across the whole
entire section. This print -- this practice sets it up for-- as long as you have a designation
anywhere touching a property you can float it across the whole entire thing. We had talks
about that and my stand was is we need to get some ruling around it or better guidance
around that. I can understand if you floated the designation to a stream, a road -- you
know, if you were floating this designation to Ten Mile and that was the reason for floating
it, that might make sense, but to just go back through in a Comprehensive Plan and seeing
if a designation floats is on -- on one of the sides, you can float it across the whole entire
project, I don't think is appropriate. And, then, this one is not any fault of the developers,
nor do I fault them for it. It is a fundamental flaw at the state level. I'm getting increasingly
concerned as a taxpayer that we have had a levy go through for Ada county that failed.
You have developers that don't pay impact fees. That's a state issue. But when you look
at your taxes, our taxes continue to rise and a good chunk of that is made at the school
district. Like I said, I'm not for or against this project. I am very concerned about the
practice of floating designations and especially taking a small sliver and floating it entirely
across the whole entire zone. What's to stop the next property from taking a little sliver
of housing and floating across it or floating the commercial all the way down. I mean
that's when I'm more concerned about it. So, thank you for your time and once again not
for or against the project.
Simison: Thank you, Denise. Council, any questions?
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Not a question. Just, Denise, it's nice to hear you. It's been a long time since
we have seen you in Council Chambers. Appreciate you being here tonight.
LaFever: Thank you.
Simison: All right. Thank you. Is there anybody in the audience who would like to testify
on this project? Okay. And there is nobody else online who has yet to testify that I can
tell who has had their hand raised.
Weatherly: Mr. Mayor, that's correct.
Simison: Okay. Well, then, with that I will turn this over to the applicant for ten minutes
for his comments.
Schultz: All right. I will try to cram it all into ten minutes. Do my best. Matt Schultz. 8421
South Ten Mile. Do appreciate everybody showing up and as you can tell the number
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one greatest concern -- and it was the concern of some of the Planning Commissioners
is traffic and fixing something that should have been fixed a long time ago, but wasn't and
here we are doing a lot of heavy lifting to put in the roads that need to be put in and I do
just reiterate that Corporate -- it was never figured into any of our original calculations
and I called the engineer -- professional engineer that does these things and we don't
scare him. He just -- he -- that's what he does everyday is -- is traffic studies all over the
county, allover the state to certain standards. They get peer reviewed. I said, hey, what
do you think the split on Corporate is? You know, how -- you know, we are showing a
hundred percent going on Corporate. We are building Corporate. So, something's going
down on Corporate. He says, man, probably about 20 percent. I mean -- but that's what
engineers do. They -- they make judgments. Now, do you agree with it? Maybe, maybe
not. I think it's probably more, but he thinks it's about 20 and I think that's a big deal that
Corporate is going in in terms of diversifying and splitting up the traffic in and out for this
site. So, it is not all focused on that totally rebuilt intersection that ITD did that nobody is
using right now, you know, that has five lanes I think. It's -- yeah. Five lanes right there
that nobody's using on Waltman. I mean somebody is using that, because nine residents
on Walmart are using it right now, so -- so, obviously, the intersection was built for us. So,
I just want to cover through real quick and say that to Mr. Manning's point and Mr. Joe
Lorcher, Senior's, point -- and it's an interesting point that I thought about after our last
hearing and we have been through a lot of hearings together over the years and if we
convert it -- our multi-family residential to single family residential and dropped a hundred
units, it would be the same amount of traffic and the point is that traffic -- apartment traffic
generates about 40 percent less than single family residential traffic. It's interesting. I
never really thought about it before. I'm a civil engineer and I have been in the business
for 25 years, but talking to these -- these traffic engineers that is -- it's interesting that we
could drop the density on this, do you all things residential and have the same amount of
traffic -- coming out of a traffic study. So, I just want to point that out there as well, that
-- you know, that -- that it is more efficient to do high density apartment residential,
because they generate less trips and that's all these numbers are is based on trip
generation, standard level of care that everybody uses across the whole valley for the
size of a site and I do want to say that the future uses were incorporated. I believe they
are on a 2030 or at least back in the day it was a 2025 model on future traffic. So, all that
is incorporated. We are just not doing simple -- you know, simple traffic studies here, not
figuring the future uses into it and adjacent uses. Those are all incorporated into the traffic
study. So, when I see people kind of pulling numbers and saying 700 homes and times
two and times three, I really do -- all due respect, they are not professional engineers with
25 years worth of experience. They are very intelligent people. It seems obvious that
that's how much traffic it would generate, but it's not. That's not how much gets generated
and I can't point out the flaws in their exact formulas, but -- because I'm not a traffic
engineer myself, I'm just a basic jack-of-all-trades civil -- or least I was. Been working
around traffic engineers for a lot of years. So, I do apologize to Mr. Lorcher when he says,
hey, Matt is saying that's going to develop someday. Well, the city does say that will
develop someday in their master plan medium density residential. Someday. May not
be within his lifetime or his kids' lifetime or my lifetime, but maybe someday and the city
is planning for that to develop and we don't know when that will be. I have seen -- I have
seen the estate plans change in my 20 years in the valley on land and people said no
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way, no how, and it's sold. Not that he will, not that his son will, but it could change. So,
that's how we approach things is that it could in the future. But, again, we did not
incorporate that connection to our traffic study, that was something that got pointed out at
P&Z that that could be a future connection, but that was never incorporated into our traffic
study, nor was the Linder overpass incorporated into our traffic study, just so everybody
knows. And it still meets all thresholds. So, this is not a death area. We are not going to
have a bunch of-- a bunch of funerals on Ruddy Drive. We have detached sidewalk. We
have traffic calming measures. Kids need to stay out of the street. You know, that's --
and there are lots of people in the street today like they said, walking. They will now have
sidewalks. Have detached sidewalks. They will have a safe way to travel to downtown
Meridian. In terms of -- we do have three accesses. We do have going through to the
Landing and we did up Corporate. We do have Waltman. We have three accesses,
instead of two. And, again, our traffic study worked on two, we are providing three. So,
when one of them is down we still have two and that's -- and that's the beauty of our
phasing plan. We still have two accesses at all times. Let's see. As far as Hawkins
buying it or not, she's right, who knows what's going to happen. But I know you guys
have control of what happens -- what happens on that piece and I know that this back 40
is not an office commercial. It really isn't. The Boise Hawks have taken a pass at this in
the past and the previous Mayor had a conversation with them, they wanted to -- Meridian
to pay for half of it and that didn't go anywhere. I mean -- so, this -- this has been around
the block on commercial and a lot of the downtown Meridian plan was based on that
commercial going through about the same time they did the downtown Meridian plan and
I'm not saying that downtown Meridian Plan is bad or faulty, I just think in this particular
area, this particular spot, that an 80 acre mixed use commercial over all of that site needs
exceptional regional access. It needs -- it needs Overland Road behind it, connecting to
interchanges if you are going to have an 80 acre site that's all mixed use entertainment
and I have seen those, they are pretty rare. Do we have 80 acres? And you don't see
them. And where are they? They are right on the main Fairview, Eagle, right on those
main roads. They are not back on a dead end road on Waltman. They are just not. And
so what we are doing is breaking this up into a logical transition. It will be an overall mixed
use. You have control over that future that's up against -- up against Meridian Road and
for all intents and purposes it's still going to be a big site. Over 30 acres. There is still
going to be a lot of opportunities to do a lot of great things on and ours is great. We think
they both make a really great combination. So, what you are doing -- you are not
sacrificing anything by approving a high quality development, provides a high quality
landscaped entry to the -- to Meridian, which doesn't really have any great landscaping.
There is one by the hospital, but the rest of them aren't too great. And we are going to
do a great one. As far as Steve McCarthy and the -- the on ramp, we are contributing
150,000 dollars to ITD. They -- they calculated our percentage of that future lane that
they are going to add that's a 15 million dollar lane. Our contribution of one percent --
which I think is kind of high myself, but that's what the traffic engineer came up with. So,
one percent of million, 150,000, and that's what ITD started doing lately is proportionate
share. I talked about destination downtown. This density is appropriate. I think ten is --
is -- is a good medium in the middle. It would be like an R-15 overall. I believe we have
four, seven, and 17 to the acre. It all averages ten. We believe that's an appropriate
density close to the interchange, close to downtown. That's where we want a semblance
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of density, even though I don't count this as super high myself. As far as the phasing and
all that and Waltman shut down, like I said, we are going to have Corporate. Corporate
is going to be open on day one and that's going to be a great, you know, connection that
while Waltman -- the bridge that's substandard today, that needs to get fixed today, is
going to get fixed by us and ACHD in their cooperative agreement and that's how we are
doing both of these bridges is ACHD and us are going to split the proportion of the share
of those that need to get put in. So, it's not all on us. It's not all on ACHD. They are
happy to have us come in and share that with them and we are happy to have them share
it with us and plus the pedestrian bridge that we are putting into the commercial. So,
know I skipped over some things, but I only had ten minutes. I think we have a high
quality appropriate, well thought out in all aspects, plan that really does -- it adds a nice
entry to Meridian and we are looking forward to getting going this winter on it. So, thank
you.
Simison: Thank you. Council, any additional comments or questions?
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Question for the applicant. It's not your business necessarily to know the timing
of the neighboring property's development, the Hawkins property, and what it may
become, but this looks like residential use to me. I don't consider this mixed use. Do you
think -- do you -- have you had conversations where you think it might be possible to
come back in conjunction with that property under a joint development agreement or
some type of cooperation where you were -- you both put your plans in front of the city
around the same time. Just curious if that's possible from your perspective.
Schultz: Council Woman Strader, thanks for that. Short answer. I don't. Long answer.
This comes up whenever we talk about mixed use. It comes up all the time, where you
are one parcel -- in this case nine parcels within 23 parcels that are considered mixed
use and does every single parcel have to be mixed use or does it have to be mixed use
over the whole thing and can the whole thing be looked at as a separate -- I think in this
case because of the Ten Mile Creek, where it's at, because being a quarter mile back off
of Meridian Road is a nonstarter for commercial, it is dead, there is no value for
commercial in this thing. People have great ideas about what could go there, but
nobody's coming forward to say they want to do it and it really does -- no matter what
happens with us, we believe this residential is fitting within that mixed use of a logical
west to east where you want residential west, you want the commercial east up against
Meridian Road, with the Ten Mile drain in between the two and there might be more
residential in the Hawkins one. They came to our neighborhood meetings, which means
to me that they are there -- obviously they are interested. They are serious. They have
-- they have hired an engineer. Now, do they have that -- that anchor user to get them
really excited to move forward, I don't know yet. But they -- they said they want to do it
like Lakemore, which I don't know if Lakemore is cool or not, but they are saying they
want to do a mixed use office commercial. That's -- that's their vision. Now, were they
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lying to me? They have no -- if they have no reason to lie to me -- that that's what they
would like to do. Now, those plans could change. But that's what they said that they
wanted to do.
Strader: Thanks for the feedback.
Schultz: No problem.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: My -- my concern for this project lies sort of similar -- the same page as Council
Woman Strader. I personally have never been a fan of making decisions on development
that doesn't meet the FLUM with hopes that future development will. I think it leaves the
door wide open for who knows what and so I -- that's my -- that's my greatest concern. I
wanted to state that before we -- we possibly go on to the next section of this public
hearing, so --
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Yeah. I just wanted to mention also -- I mean that is my core concern. In terms
of this design or this actual setup for residential use, I actually think it's very well thought
out for a residential use. I just -- yeah. I really have to think about the -- the whole
economy for Meridian. We are really over reliant on residential and I know residential
could be a piece of mixed use, but I worry about setting this precedent of floating this
much without having like a joint application with that neighboring property. But I did want
to just say, you know, I -- I don't mind the apartments. I wouldn't mind having -- even
trading up for more -- a couple of stories on some of those buildings for more open space.
I just have some concerns about our overreliance on residential and I have a lot of bigger
concerns with the school situation, but I'm going to mention that in future meeting topics
and not pick on this one application, because it's a systemic issue.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: I had a question for Matt. You mentioned the 150,000 dollars that you are
putting in for an extra lane on the -- it sounded like the overpass area. Was that the lane
going to Boise on the eastbound or is that -- is that -- correct? Okay. Can you speak --
Schultz: That's how I understand it, Councilman Hoaglun, is that it is that eastbound lane
over to Eagle Road, 15 million bucks, which I was like, whoa, you know, I hadn't heard
about it until they hit us up for it.
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Hoaglun: Yeah. I understand. And, Mr. Mayor, if I follow up -- can you speak -- the left-
hand turn to -- into Waltman has been much discussed and it is -- it is an issue to have a
single lane -- most of ours are now double -- double turn lanes and different things. Is
there any room for expansion on that? Because that--that is problematic. We are putting
a lot of cars into that area, especially if commercial does develop right there at the corner,
what room do they have, if any, for that left turn?
Schultz: Mr. Hoaglun, I think that room would come out of that commercial property, if
they did need it. You know, if they did it. I do want to say obvious -- it's an obvious, hey,
man, how are all these people going to get in there. But we do have a Corporate entrance
as well and that's the other benefit of the Corporate entrance, which has a signal, which
has a left turn, which, you know, it's -- it's -- it's built to handle this -- this traffic. So, it
gives us two ways to turn left and get over -- and out -- in and out.
Hoaglun: Yeah. Mr. Mayor, just to follow up on that point.
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: That -- that is an interesting dynamic -- because if I were in that development,
if it were here, going out to the new Corporate that connects and coming out gives you
more time to get into the left-hand lane, as opposed to coming -- turning right from
Waltman. That -- that does give you an option, so -- and that's the thing that makes this
a difficult decision, because there are many aspects of this that you have thought through,
Matt, you and your team, and trying to mitigate and -- and putting investment into the
bridges and sidewalks, the connector roads, pathways and those types of things that it --
I have often been wondering why this property hasn't developed for so long and -- and
there are just some issues -- and I think part of it is that -- that traffic portion and you have
gone a long ways in trying to figure that out. Like other Council Members have mentioned,
I'm a little concerned about the uncoupling of the property and -- and trying to make sure
that this truly meets the intent and desires of our future land use planning and what we
do with this property and what that looks like. Dead end roads are difficult and I do
commend you for making that -- not a dead end road completely, but it is -- it is still
problematic on that and the connection with Ruddy from -- from a city standpoint, I
completely understand opening that up, having that cross-access, emergency vehicles. I
was a little concerned for our neighborhood when living at Ustick and Ten Mile when they
put up the signs and they made the detour through our subdivision, it's like, oh, no, people
are going to find out, here is a back way they can get -- get around the intersection. But,
fortunately, it is very slow going through the subdivision. I mean it is just the nature of it.
So, fortunately, it didn't last. I'm sure people will remember it when the time comes again,
but I'm not quite so concerned, but it-- it is an issue we have to think about and especially
when time frames are so vastly different in our community where things should have been
done when they were done and they are -- and they are not and we have -- we have to
wait. So, you know, this one's a little -- a little problematic on a few fronts, but there is a
lot of good things about it and quality development for -- for that back half. But as I said,
I do have some concerns.
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Simison: Council, while a few others get their time, I'm first going to say thank you to
whoever used my words from the State of the City. I appreciate people actually watching
and implementing that into it and -- but in all seriousness from the --from my perspective
as a nonvoting member on this topic -- and it's even the perspective of when you look at
it where they talked about responsible versus irresponsible growth. On one hand this is
very responsible in what I view as responsible growth. They are solving problems. They
are putting --they are making road connections where they should exist. They are making
sidewalk improvements that otherwise would not be there. But it does doesn't come
without challenges as well, but it -- from -- just from the development perspective I do
think that no matter what goes into this property eventually we will have to see Waltman,
Meridian somehow reconfigured to allow for greater stacking, turning movements. I can
say from someone -- this is one of the very first things when I started with the city back in
2007 when I -- this first came in in the old City Hall and so I have followed this one for
years, but I have always felt that this land, as problematic as it is with the transportation
network, it is the -- can be as much as the community identifier that exists, if anything. I
mean if you look around that intersection -- I mean on one hand you got the Roaring
Springs, even though they are not right on the corner on the other side. You have got
Home Depot and Winco, nothing special from that standpoint. So, this could just be
another commercial aspect that doesn't have to be a game changer, but I don't know that
a residential apartment does it for me from that standpoint. Maybe it is -- I have always
hoped there could be something that could be off hours from normal commute times to
address and alleviate the 8:00 to 5:00 peak traffic time, not dissimilar to what some people
testified is how do you create a destination location where you can get people that are
coming during other hours when you are not fighting traffic to and from. So, it is a complex
property. I don't disagree with the others in terms of -- I think I would want to see a larger
plan. I think that that's what's been a concern theme throughout the last 13, 14 years with
this property is the larger plan and some people have done a lot of good work to assemble
the properties that allow for a common larger opportunity and I feel like we are halfway
there, at least to know, but not fully and it's -- so, it's a struggle from our standpoint. But
appreciate everything that Matt has put into it and their team in terms of the effort they
would go for the off site to make this a better area for the community. Not maybe
necessarily for the people that live in that area now, they may not see it that way, but I
think for the community as a whole it is definitely trying to make those improvements. You
turned off your mic, but Councilman Borton.
Borton: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I can't add a whole lot more that hasn't already been
discussed. I think some of the questions have highlighted a lot that is really good with
this application and a lot of concerns that Matt's made a very strong effort in trying to
address. You know, among all of those considerations two things are certainly true. This
application absolutely reduces traffic, compared to what could otherwise go there. It's
more traffic than what exists today, obviously, with an empty field, so it's hard to appreciate
that perspective. But the existing entitlements would allow traffic way beyond what this
provides. There is information in the-- in the materials from the traffic engineer, it's around
30 percent of what would otherwise. It's a big number. More than zero. But it's a lot less
than what it could be. But what it also provides, without any question, is a whole heck of
a lot more strain on our school system than the existing designation and its existing
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zoning. So, those are two truths that we balance, in -- in trying to determine if this makes
sense. I agree with the Mayor that the traffic challenges with this area plague this
property. I have seen it from -- since 2007 and before as well. I wrestle also with the
mixed use community designation. I remember a couple years ago when the request
was to amend the comp plan for medium high density residential I believe was the
designation and -- and the applicant was --was patient I guess to --to know that the comp
plan was in the process and that -- that change of some -- or perhaps any change was
going to come to this area and its designation and -- and part of me thought I might see
that vetted through the comp plan process that this area would be changed to medium
density or medium high density residential as a land use designation, but it wasn't. So,
somehow that group collectively assessed and determined that this area shouldn't be
medium high density residential, but, instead, should have that mixed use community,
which is a -- I think a very different -- truly a very different field, especially a gateway area
like this and -- and to rely -- we have done it a few times where you try to rely on adjacent
property owner to pick up -- to Councilman Hoaglun's question, if you have got to have,
you know, three -- at least three different uses in an area, if one of them gobbles up -- you
know, the first one in gobbles up one of the uses, the other areas hopefully pick up the
slack and cover the rest, but that's a -- that can be a dangerous way to -- to try and plan.
So, that gives me some added concern here, too, that--that it might not truly fit the mixed
use community identity that -- that our comp plan amendment has provided to us. So,
those are just some additional thoughts and concerns from the information we received,
from the testimony today and -- and all of the written information we have been provided,
which was -- which is very helpful.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Because I think all Council has kind of weighed in, I'm happy to share some
thoughts, which I think fall somewhat in line with -- with the rest of my colleagues. If I
recall, I supported this project two years ago and there has been -- there has been some
noticeable improvements then. I think that there is nobody on this body that has any
opposition to the layout, the design of what's before us. When this was before us, the
Linder Road overpass was maybe just a glimmer in, then, Council Member Palmer's eye
and we didn't know where connection points were -- were going to be made and what the
Lorchers' plans were with --with their farm. We, obviously, got a lot of clarity on that today
and we also know that the Linder Road overpass is much closer to being a reality and I
worry a little bit about -- not about the overall traffic count, it's really about what that
learned behavior will become once Linder Road is -- the overpass is completed. I think
with traffic calming it can be mitigated. The question I guess -- I have got a couple of
questions for staff that we can ask now or later is, one, to give Council a little bit better
understanding about the permitted use of floating land use designation and taking what I
think is three acres and kind of expanding it further or why that's a permitted use -- or
permitted change. And, then, just for clarification in terms of process, as I understand
right now, Sonya, we have got a land use designation that's currently listed or permitted
that is now inconsistent with -- with the FLUM. So, any clarification in terms of process
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about if that's something that we at a bare minimum need to pick up tonight?
Allen: Mr. Mayor, Councilman Cavener, I will respond to the request for more information
on the floating the designations. The new Comprehensive Plan states that future land
use map designations are not parcel specific and adjacent abutting designation, when
appropriate and approved as part of a public hearing with a land development application,
may be used. A designation may not be used, however, across planned or existing
commercial -- or, excuse me, collector or arterial roadways. It must not be used on a
parcel not directly abutting the designation and may not apply to more than 50 percent of
the land being developed. All other changes require an amendment to the
Comprehensive Plan future land use map. Did that answer your question, Councilman
Cavener?
Cavener: Yes, it does. Thanks, Sonya.
Allen: You're welcome.
Simison: Council, is there any further comments or questions or is there a motion to close
the public hearing?
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: I move that we close the public hearing.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Strader: Second.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. Is there any
discussion on the motion? If not, all those in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay.
The ayes have it.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Bernt: I guess I will start out, Mr. Mayor.
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: You know, I got to give credit to Matt and his staff for, you know, presenting a better
project than he did last time. There were a lot of things that he mitigated and a lot of
things he listened to that he changed and so I commend him for that and his staff. For
the most part, from a bird's eye view, I think this development isn't bad, I just think that in
the interest for our city, this parcel is zoned --you know, mixed use community is probably
the best option and, unfortunately, my concern that I had before is the same. I have never
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-- like I said before, I have never been a fan of making decisions on development that it
doesn't meet the FLUM with hopes that other developments -- surrounding development
will connect the dots. I ultimately just -- I just -- I just don't think that's a -- that's a wise
choice and a wise move for the city. I think that it's always best to do it right the first time
and, you know, it's just -- it's just sort of a reality for me and so that's where I stand at the
moment and, again, I appreciate Mr. Schultz and -- and -- and what he's done to present
what he presented, it's just -- it didn't quite meet the mark for me tonight.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: I -- I echo pretty much the same comments. I really do like this development's
design. I think it's well thought out. I don't mind the density. I do mind setting the
precedent of floating a designation that takes up such a small piece of this property across
the whole thing, so that more assurances that the, you know, neighboring property would
help us get to the right answer in the long run. I don't want to discourage Mr. Schultz. I
-- again, I really like a lot of aspects of it. I'm totally putting the school thing aside, because
it's just so systemic that we just have to have a separate conversation about it I think, but
in terms of the floating, that's really my -- my hang up. If this could -- I think it's possible
that -- you don't control that other property -- if -- if for some reason this doesn't pass
tonight and there is a path toward having a joint development with that neighboring
property, I would highly encourage you to come back with a more comprehensive vision
for this area. That in my mind would be a --take me much further toward justifying floating
farther than I think that we normally would. So, that's my feedback.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Again, it's always interesting listening to my colleagues
and hearing their insight. Council Member Strader and I share I think the same concern
about that -- that floating element and -- and I don't know what the right number is and
clearly I think it's one of those things that if the land I guess to the east of you had been
developed and we know what that is, it sounds like maybe Council would be more
supportive and so I -- part of me understands that, but, then, the other part of me says,
well, it feels a little bit like we are penalizing the one who is here first and that we as a
body can -- because they were here first we can be beholden to future development to
meet what we desire for the region -- for that area and clearly we have done that before.
I'm not saying that is the best practice in all cases, but it is something that we have done
before and -- and, obviously, will be a feedback we will hear from staff for any future
applications. So, I appreciate the commentary tonight, but I think overall I'm supportive
of the application. I think it should go forward. You know, one of the things that we haven't
talked a lot about is -- you know -- and I know a lot of people use this as a gateway and
they view this project as concerning because this area is a gateway, but I look at it as a
great way to also bring additional people into our downtown and when you look at kind of
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the four corners and, yes, the four corners are separated by an interstate, but you have
got retail and restaurants and a children's museum to the east. South you have got, you
know, the Wahooz and the waterpark and we have got these kind of big corners that
generate a lot of traffic and a lot of commerce, but what we don't have is the residential
piece and I think having a residential piece is an important component of this area and so
I -- again, I'm supportive of the project. I think it's the right project for that piece of land
that has a lot of challenges. There is a reason why it hasn't went, you know, full
commercial is because of the challenges we have talked about and I just don't know if we
continue to wait and hope that we are suddenly going to get 20 years later what we
envisioned 20 years ago.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun. Yeah. To touch on something Councilman Cavener
talked on, you know, there is -- there is a -- there is a uniqueness to this property and --
and, you know, it's not a parcel on -- on Franklin Road that you can go, yeah, 65 percent
is good enough, you know, we can -- we can make that work and -- and -- and there is --
there is one good leg to this that's been presented, but to get it across the finish line is
going to take two legs for me and -- and -- and for the folks that are here tonight, you
know, it will change. Someday there is going to be a project come along that's going to
-- you know, it may not be a hundred percent great about it, but that's going to come along
and -- and it will develop and it's not going to happen I don't think tonight with this one
leg, but it was a -- it was a good first -- or second try, I guess, at it, because there is a lot
of good things about this and we are getting there that your traffic issues are still going to
be some work needed on that, but for me it just -- we need to see the whole thing and
make it more unique that we can go, yes, this is it.
Simison: Any further comments or do I have a motion?
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: I move that we deny application H-2020-0024, Tanner Creek Subdivision.
Strader: Second.
Simison: I have a motion and a second and I think our city attorney would like a little bit
more information from you.
Nary: Thank you. Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, because this is an annexed
property that is requesting a rezone and development agreement application, it would be
helpful -- I think I understand your rationale, Council, from listening to the discussion, but
if you could at least articulate your reasonings for findings on that, since it is already
annexed.
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Bernt: Let me look on my notes. First and foremost, I move that we deny this application
because I think we should uphold the current Comprehensive Plan designation or the
FLUM designation of mixed use community.
Strader: Second agrees.
Simison: I have a motion and a second that agrees to the -- as to why. Council, is there
any discussion on the motion?
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Questions for maybe the motion maker or the second. Is there a
communication that the applicant or one of the neighboring property owners could provide
you in the next few weeks or months that would satisfy your larger concern about the
FLUM? I ask that in that -- again, if that's where some of our concern -- to at least see if
there is something from the -- it sounds like the Hawkins folks to provide. Again, I don't
know if it exists, but clearly if it doesn't exist the applicant could withdraw, but at least to
be able to create that opportunity for that type of feedback to be provided.
Bernt: I don't -- I don't know. I would -- I don't know what that looks like.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: I think normally if we deny an application there is a certain waiting period before
an applicant has to come -- can come back to us. I guess the only feedback I would have
is that if the Hawkins property were to come before us or if they were to jointly come
before us, I would be open to preemptively waiving that waiting period in the event that
that could happen. I don't think that quite gets to what Councilman Cavener is saying,
but I think -- I don't know if Mr. Nary has a method for which we could do that, but I would
be willing to more holistically look at this area if the two developments were -- if there was
a way for the two developments to come before us at the same time.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Mr. Nary.
Nary: So, Mr. Mayor, Members of Council, Council Woman Strader, so, yes, I think if you
were to have -- there is a one year waiting period between applications if they are
substantially the same project. The -- what you are raising would be something that,
again, depending on what it is, would likely not be substantially the same, because we
are talking about a joint application or a joint development of some sort between the
western property and the eastern property. So, I don't see a problem with that issue,
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depending on what it is. The other thing that I wanted to clarify is more than I just want
to put on the record, I think I'm very clear on what you are wanting, Council Member Bernt,
but when you say maintain the FLUM, the conversation was three acres of this parcel are
listed as medium density residential and the concern to the Council was establishing a
precedent to float that over the entire parcel and, then, put all of the burden of the mixed
use community on the adjacent parcel and that's what I take by your concern about the
FLUM, that they are not setting a -- you are not wanting to set a precedent -- not
necessarily a percentage, but simply a precedent to put all of the -- one type of use on
one parcel and push all the rest to another. Is that generally the idea that's I think what I
understood from your discussion?
Bernt: Yes.
Nary: Okay. Thank you.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: With that I think I'm satisfied to call for the question.
Simison: Okay. The question has been called. Clerk will call the roll.
Roll call: Bernt, yea; Borton, yea; Cavener, yea; Hoaglun, yea; Strader, yea; Perreault,
absent.
Simison: All ayes. And the motion to not approve passes.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Simison: Thank you, everyone, for being here and for that conversation and, Mr. Schultz,
we appreciate the work you put into that and enjoy your time with your family in McCall.
Schultz: Thank you.
Simison: We will see you back again soon.
Schultz: You will. See you.
Item 7: Future Meeting Topics
Simison: Council, we will turn to Item 7, future meeting topics.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
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Strader: I have a future meeting topic and I don't think we are going to solve it -- but you
and I have talked -- I have told it to you directly. I -- I am having what I could only call kind
of a moral struggle with the state of the school system and really the inability for West
Ada to construct new schools and I -- I would be interested in having a discussion about
how we as a Council, if we want to at all, react to that fact pattern, if we want to consider
some more creative ideas and I -- and -- and, you know, whether it's -- and this is going
to sound a little extreme, so I want to kind of couch this comment very carefully --
Simison: And I'm going to ask you to couch your comments directly to what you would
like a future meeting topic to be, rather than having a conversation about the topic.
Strader: Thank you. Yeah. Sorry, I'm bad about that. I would like to have a future
meeting topic about whether it makes sense, because of our inability to build new schools,
to consider some type of formula for our building permits based on school capacity and
expansion plans and whether -- if we don't see some changes, either from the legislature
or other places, we want to either consider that as a Council or even consider putting that
on the ballot.
Simison: Okay. So, we will have that down and we will have a conversation regarding if
that should be done, that this -- or if there is a desire for Council. Are there any other
future meeting topics?
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Hoaglun: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: I thought I had one, but in looking at the calendar I don't think it can be
accomplished. I was wondering if we would find out if we are going to have a Fourth of
July fireworks show in our community this year and it seems that today's the 23rd, we
have our budget work -- budget public hearing on the 30th and, then, the next meeting is
July 7th. So, maybe if you could respond to -- are we having a community firework show?
Simison: I will respond via e-mail once that is official.
Hoaglun: Okay. Great. Thank you.
Simison: So, anything else in our future meeting topics?
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Maybe not a future meeting topic, but just maybe a quick cursory reminder to
Council. If you have got questions that you are working through to get to staff or Finance
for our budget meeting next Tuesday, do your best to try and get those wrapped up and
sent over today or tomorrow, so staff has ample time to get us a comprehensive response.
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Also if you are planning to meet with directors and whatnot, please, reach out to them.
They have got busy schedules as well. Some of them also have Independence Day plans
and whatnot and they want to go camping, so we are not asking them to make those
meetings last minute. While I know they will do it, I just think we give them as much head
notice as possible.
Hoaglun: Good reminder.
Simison: Okay. Council, anything else or do I have a motion?
Bernt: Mr. Mayor, I move that we adjourn the meeting.
Hoaglun: Second the motion.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to adjourn the meeting. Any discussion on the
motion? If not, all those in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay. The ayes have it.
We are adjourned.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 9:46 P.M.
(AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
7 7 2020
MAYOR ROBERT E. SIMISON DATE APPROVED
ATTEST:
CHRIS JOHNSON - CITY CLERK
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