HomeMy WebLinkAboutJuly 7, 2005 P&Z Minutes
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
July 7, 2005
Page 99 of 110
Moe: Second.
Newton-Huckabay: Second.
Zaremba: We have a motion and two seconds. All in favor say aye. Any opposed?
Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Borup: We had nothing -- no change to the staff report, was there?
Moe: Other than the --
Zaremba: I think the only thing I would add is some phrasing somewhere that says that
the CUP belongs to the applicant and expire when they vacate.
Borup: Okay. Waiting for me? Mr. Chairman, I move we forward to City Council
recommending approval of CUP 05 -- no. Excuse me. Yeah. 05-032, request for a
conditional use permit for Compass Public Charter School, to include all staff comments
and report for hearing date of July 7th, transmittal date of June 30th, to include all staff
comments, with the addition of item 14 on page seven and add that the CUP will expire
when the Compass Charter School vacates the property.
Moe: Second.
Zaremba: We have a motion and a second. All in favor say aye. Any opposed?
Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 24:
Public Hearing: AZ 05-025 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 5.47
acres from RUT to R-4 zone for Meridian High School by Hummel
Architects - 1900 West Pine Avenue:
Zaremba: Thank you very much. And last Public Hearing, but not least, I will open the
Public Hearing for AZ 05-025, request for annexation and zoning for Meridian High
School and we will begin with the staff report.
Hawkins-Clark: Thank you, Chairman. With your permission, I have about an hour and
a half staff report.
Zaremba: Thank you very much. And in that case I think we should take a 20-minute
break before we start. Please proceed.
Newton-Huckabay: You do not have my permission.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
July 7, 2005
Page 100 of 110
Hawkins-Clark: Okay. I will make it real short. This request is for annexation and
zoning of 5.4 acres, currently rural urban transition. They are proposing an R-4. Same
zone as Meridian High School currently has. The Commission is all familiar with where
Meridian High School is. Linder and Pine. This is abutting their west boundary.
Property that the school district, my understanding, has had for awhile, just didn't realize
it wasn't in the city limits, so -- I am, by the way, pitching in for Josh Wilson, who is out.
So, he wrote the staff report on this. The request is just an annexation, although they
did submit with their application a concept plan for how it might develop. Staff did not
feel like it was necessary to tie that specifically to their -- a development agreement, so
no development agreement is recommended with this. This aerial gives you a little
better feel for how it relates to the existing campus. Parking lot abuts pretty much the
entire shared boundary between this new five-acre piece and the existing school. There
is an existing access easement off of Pine that comes into this site to serve the two
houses to the west and to the north, but staff understands the school would not need to
use it, they would just use their access from inside their campus. So, we are
recommending approval.
Zaremba: Thank you. Commissioners, any questions?
Borup: Is that a backfield that's on site now? Is that what that -- there is an existing
baseball field? Softball?
Hawkins-Clark: I believe it's a practice field of some sort.
Borup: Okay.
Zaremba: Okay. We are ready for the applicant. Good morning, sir.
Daniels: Ed Daniels, Hubble Architects. Mr. Chair and Members of the Commission, I
applaud you for your duration here. It's quite a process. I really don't have a lot to add.
I think he covered it pretty well. Like he said, it was a piece of property the school
district's owned for a long time and as we got into looking at constructing an annex
building for them, we discovered that it wasn't in Meridian city, so that's the reason for
the annexation. The proposed use is going to be coming with a -- it will be a building for
the votech center here. It will be replacing an existing building that they have on
campus now. And that's really about it. There is a -- like he said before, there is an
access on the east side that the school district would be utilizing. They wouldn't
necessarily need any sort of access off of Pine Street. And there is an existing irrigation
lateral that runs to the north boundary and we would make sure that we tile that and,
then, also any water rights that are associated with that to the adjacent properties, we
would maintain that. Outside of that, it's -- to me it's pretty simple, but -- if there is any
questions for me?
Zaremba: Commissioners, any questions?
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
July 7, 2005
Page 101 of110
Moe: I have none.
Zaremba: Pretty straight forward. Thank you.
Borup: I assume this parcel here is already annexed, then?
Daniels: Yeah. You know, I don't know that.
Borup: Is that part of the school district?
Hawkins-Clark: That is not, no.
Daniels: Not right now.
Borup: Thank you.
Zaremba: We do have someone signed up to testify. Paul Geile.
Geile: My name is Paul Geile and I live at 4717 Willow Lane in Boise and my father
owns the trapezoidal piece just to the east of that, the 18 acres open ground, and he
sort of handed me this project this morning and I'm sorry if I'm not quite up to speed. I
was really concerned that a property was going from Ada county into an R-4
designation and it struck me as an odd thing to put a residential zoning on what is
proposed to be a student or community owned and it -- I guess from the little research I
did I kind of found out that schools are almost all in R-4 for reason or reasons unknown.
Zaremba: There is no zone that specifically identifies schools. It's like putting churches
in limited office zone, that's just where we put them.
Geile: So, if they were granted an R-4 zone, they could, potentially build houses there,
to an R-4 standard; is that correct? I mean not that they would, but -- it was standard --
they did an R-4, do they get the rest of the rights associated with an R-4 zone, even if
they are going to build a non-residential building on that property?
Zaremba: Yeah.
Borup: Unless -- I'm assuming unless the development agreement states otherwise.
Hawkins-Clark: Chairman, Members of the Commission, that's -- that's correct.
Planning and Zoning staff's read on this is the R-4 has certain entitlements with it,
unless you put a development agreement on here that says otherwise.
Zaremba: School uses.
Geile: And I guess that was an earlier comment, that this zoning change is not at this
point tied to the building of that industrial building that they are going to put in.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
July 7, 2005
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Moe: Right.
Geile: So, I guess -- the reason that my dad sent me down here was to make sure that
they weren't going to put in a lighted stadium in that area. And if they can -- my
understanding also is that the -- once they get an R-4 zone, they can, essentially, build
whatever they want there, without an additional Public Hearing? Is that right also?
Zaremba: Well, you're right in some respects. What they are planning to build there is
allowed in an R-4 zone, but there are other things that are allowed in an R-4 zone, with
no further hearing.
Geile: And an R-4 owned by a school gives them incredibly broad attitude to build
almost whatever they want?
Zaremba: Well, as staff pointed out, we can put a limitation by saying, yes, it's an R-4,
but what you have to build is school related.
Geile: But this is just what I wanted to make sure that I understood that correctly. And
the last map I have of that five acre piece gives me an indication that it was actually two
parcels and at some point was it combined to become one five acre piece when the
high school purchased that?
Zaremba: Let me ask staff if they know the answer to that.
Hawkins-Clark: Chairman, as I mentioned, I'm pinch hitting for Josh, who did the -- he's
the planner who did more of the research on this. It's not mentioned in his staff report,
so maybe we could ask the applicant.
Zaremba: We will ask the applicant that in a couple minutes.
Geile: Okay. And I guess I heard also, in just a very brief discussion with one of your
staff people that was generous enough to share some of their time this afternoon, that
generally even in the R-4 designation owned by the school, you ended up with one main
building per parcel. Is that correct also? And if this goes as two parcels, then, they can
build two buildings on that space. If it goes as one parcel, they could build one building
on that space?
Zaremba: Well, your -- typical in all zones is that you can only build one building per --
one main building per parcel. Sometimes outbuildings are allowed.
Geile: Okay. Well, I guess that's what I wanted to make sure. I guess it was more of a
comment and some education and to make sure that -- my father's concern that if there
was any possibility that the high school could go ahead and build, essentially, whatever
they wanted on that property, once they acquired the R-4 zoning change, without the
neighborhood being able to go back at a public hearing and have that discussed. That
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July 7, 2005
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was a concern of his. And I live next to a public park in Boise, which is an incredibly
intrusive, light spilling, noise spilling, monster. And if we can go ahead and limit that, tie
that building that they are intending to build to this zoning change, I would recommend
doing that, if they are generally considered -- going to go ahead and do that. The other
thing is the staff had mentioned that in very rare instances could you go ahead and
approve a zoning change and if there were a particular item that was proposed in the
future, that you could require that that require a public hearing. So, what I'm afraid is
going to happen is they are going to purchase that eight acre piece --
Borup: They already own it.
Geile: What's that?
Borup: I believe they already own it.
Geile: Yeah. I saw -- I saw -- there is another lot there also and they own the little five
acre piece right now that is a practice soccer field and baseball field. But they are going
to probably buy the eight acre piece to the north and they are -- as what I'm hearing for
the Meridian school district, that they would like to put a stadium there and I just don't
want it right next to this property and if they get cart blanche from an R-4 zone, they will
be able to do that without any other public comment and that was my concern.
Zaremba: Well, yeah, that piece of property is not included in the discussions, so that
would go through the same notice and separate hearing and everything at that time.
Geile: What you would probably do in that case is give them an R-4 for that piece of
property also?
Zaremba: I'm sure that's what they would request, but it would go through a public
hearing and --
Geile: And if they wished to build a stadium after they got this piece into an R-4 and
that eight acres piece into an R-4, would they have to go through any additional public
hearings?
Zaremba: To get the other piece into an R-4, they would have to go through a public
hearing, just like this one.
Geile: But once they got that they could build a stadium without additional public
hearings.
Zaremba: Any school use, yes.
Geile: Okay.
Nary: Mr. Chairman?
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
July 7, 2005
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Zaremba: Mr. Nary.
Nary: You know, it probably seems obvious, but there is already a stadium on this
campus. I mean the school district's proposal, which has been publicly discussed, is a
field house, as a portion of the high school property, which was an indoor gymnasium,
not an outdoor facility.
Geile: On the five acre piece that they are --
Nary: That's what they are proposing on their property in some location.
Geile: Okay.
Nary: There is already a stadium there. I don't -- Mr. Hawkins-Clark may recall when
that stadium was put in, if any CUs were required, because of the lights, I mean it being
adjacent to those homes on the north side of the property. But they couldn't sell it -- I
guess maybe to answer your -- they couldn't sell it to build houses, which was one of
your points you made, without it having a public process through the school's board.
They can't sell property, no different than the city can sell property, without a public
process. So, you would get notice of that. If they were trying to sell it, you would get
notice of that from the school board.
Geile: Okay. But they would be in possession of that R-4 zone, having got approval
from it tonight, so there wouldn't be a hearing on that in the future, because they would
keep that zone with them.
Nary: Right. I mean as Commissioner Zaremba has stated, they can -- the
Commission can certainly recommend a development agreement with limitations on
that, but I just wanted you to understand that they couldn't sell it -- that wouldn't happen
and the only way they would do that would be to sell it, and the only way they can sell it
is through a public process, which you would receive notice of.
Geile: Right. And it would be counterintuitive to me that a high school could be in
possession of an R-4 zone and I didn't -- the logical connect was not there, so I was a
little suspicious on what else they got by acquiring an R-4 zone, because it wasn't -- it
wasn't clear what an R-4 zone would do for them in the first place and what else it might
do for them after this has been passed. And I don't know the answer to that question.
But my father was asking just to defend his interest as his property was subsidized
around and that's -- so, two things. If I can have the linkage to the use associated with
the zoning change and I guess you cannot, then, require a public hearing on a future
use, even one as large stadium on a school --
Zaremba: Well, on the other piece of property is not at issue yet, but it would go
through -- you would get notice, if they do buy that other eight acres that you're talking
about. That's not part of what we are addressing tonight, but it would go through exactly
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July 7, 2005
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the same process. Your dad would get notice that they were planning to annex it and
zone it and what they were going to put on it.
Newton-Huckabay: I don't think it's hardly big enough for a stadium. They could just
barely put the current stadium in those pieces of land now.
Geile: Well, it isn't --
Zaremba: My point is it isn't an issue tonight.
Geile: It is not something for you tonight, so all I really want to just get -- the only thing
that you can accomplish is to link the zoning change to the proposed use.
Zaremba: That works for me.
Geile: Can you do that?
Newton-Huckabay: Yeah. We can.
Zaremba: Thank you.
Geile: I think that's it.
Zaremba: Does someone else care to comment on this subject?
Hawkins-Clark: I was just going to clarify that the zoning ordinance only allows two --
two things in the R-4 and that's public schools and single family detached houses.
Zaremba: Right. Theoretically, less than four per acre.
Moe: I think the point that he's just trying to make is in lieu of seeing a -- even, for that
matter, a baseball stadium with lights, on that R-4 property, he would like to make sure
it's going to be a building, as opposed to something else.
Hawkins-Clark: Right. And certainly that would be a change between the relationship
between the City of Meridian and the Joint School District No.2. To my knowledge,
over the last seven to eight years Meridian city has never required the school district --
for Mountain View High School, for Sawtooth Middle School, for Lewis & Clark Middle
School, or for any of the other elementary schools, to go through a Conditional Use
Permit process for anything, even the middle schools and high schools that do have
stadiums. It doesn't mean that -- I don't think, that -- I mean the city can require a
development agreement that says the school can't build a stadium. I'm just pointing out
that, you know, historically, that relationship has not been -- the city has said school
districts, you construct whatever you feel is in your master plan and what's in your best
interest, whatever your board approves and --
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
July 7, 2005
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Zaremba: But, still, this gentleman -- if the school district chose to buy the other parcel
that he's talking about, his dad would get notified that they were wanting to annex and
zone it and there would be an opportunity to --
Hawkins-Clark: I think the applicant's concern was -- not the applicant. I'm sorry. The
gentleman's concern was that if -- once it is approved for -- assuming they come in and
it's R-4, then, they could still -- they could come in and put that stadium in there without
a public hearing.
Newton-Huckabay: And they could.
Zaremba: Actually, that's true. Okay. All right. Let's have Mr. Daniel comment again, if
you would, please.
Daniel: Mr. Chairman and Members of the Commission, not really knowing the detail
that he does on the process, but in regards to the lot being split at one time, we have
had the land surveyed and this is the first I have heard of it being two lots and so I'm not
really sure where that is. I'm not saying it's not accurate, I just -- this is the first I have
heard of it. It never come up in our survey work that we had done out there a few
months ago. And unless there is some other questions that I'm needed to answer now -
Zaremba: Would you have any problem with us having a development agreement that
says it has to be a school use?
Daniel: No.
Zaremba: That would prevent you from building houses on it, but I'm sure that's not
your intent.
Daniel: Sure. No. I think, as a lot of people know the history behind Meridian High
School, they are pretty much land locked, you know, from the land that's taken around
them there and they are really limited on -- on land that they need for their facilities and
for their programs. And so, no, I think their intended use for the property would be for
school use, not to develop any sort of housing. So, I don't think we have a problem with
that at all.
Zaremba: Commissioner Moe.
Moe: Yeah. I don't have a comment or question to the applicant, but going back to
what Mr. Nary said, I'm not sure that development agreement in regards to the housing
is really necessary, because if, in fact, they were going to sell the property, that would
come back before the public anyway, so there is really no need to stick it into here.
Zaremba: Good point.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
July 7, 2005
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Moe: And I also believe that Brad's probably answered the other question, that pretty
much the city has kind of let the school district kind of do what -- what they want with
their own property. So, therefore, I mean it would be a new precedent if we did a
development agreement in regards to making sure that there is a building put on that
site, as opposed to something else.
Zaremba: Well -- and there are standard city ordinances for everything, that you can't
have lights that bleed over onto other properties, so I mean those are standard
requirements that have to be complied with anyhow, so we don't need to add that. If a
stadium would be built, then, there would have to be discussion of the lights, but that's
not what's envisioned, is it?
Daniel: Not in this annexation, no.
Zaremba: Okay.
Borup: I don't see where we need to really add anything. They are not going to build
houses there. Not this school district.
Moe: No.
Zaremba: They have got too many people watching them.
Borup: Well, they need the space. It just -- it's not practical.
Zaremba: Thank you. Commissioners?
Moe: Mr. Chairman, I move that we close the Public Hearing on AZ 05-025.
Newton-Huckabay: Second.
Zaremba: Is there a second?
Newton-Huckabay: Second.
Zaremba: We have a motion and a second. All in favor say aye. Anyopposed? That
motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Moe: For discussion, I guess I -- you know, the testimony that we have had, I think we
kind of -- kind of talked our way through this thing in regards to any housing. I think if
for some reason that was to happen, there would be more public hearings on that, so,
therefore, that could be taken care of at that point and --
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
July 7, 2005
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Zaremba: Well -- and the extra issue is not only public hearings, but there would be
notice --
Moe: Yes.
Zaremba: -- to his father as a neighboring property.
Moe: And based upon the preliminary kind of plan that we have seen, you know, for
this property, it looks to me like they are planning to build a building and the applicant
has said as much as well this evening. I don't foresee anything else happening. They
have already got a -- you know, a practice facility and a softball field there now, so,
therefore I'm assuming they are trying to get this into annexation to go ahead and build
a building. So, therefore, I'm not sure there is really anything else necessary to put on
this for a motion. So, therefore, Mr. Chairman, I would recommend sending on to City
Council approval of AZ 05-025, to include all staff comments of the hearing date of July
the 7th, 2005, with a transmittal date of June the 30th, with no other comment.
Borup: Second.
Zaremba: We have a motion and a second. All in favor say aye. Any opposed? That
motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 25: Discussion of street name change from West Fireweed Drive to West
Orso Drive in Bear Creek Subdivision No.7:
Zaremba: Thank you all for hanging in there with us. The last item on the agenda is a
discussion, not a public hearing, but we will have discussion among staff and
Commissioners and is there a staff report to begin with?
Hawkins-Clark: Chairman, I can just summarize your packet, I guess, real briefly. And,
basically, the ordinance says if somebody wants to change a street name that's already
been recorded -- and in this case the name has been recorded in Bear Creek. I'm sorry
I don't have any exhibits to put on the slide, so we just have this, but if they want to do
that and it's recorded, our ordinance says that the Planning and Zoning Commission
needs to approve the street name change. Of course, it would also have to be
approved by the Ada county street name committee. My understanding is that was
already done. So, I think if you read the material, you saw that the reason they want to
do it is it better matches up with the theme of their subdivision of Strada Bellissima, they
did not feel that Fireweed was authentic Italian.
Zaremba: We had that discussion when Strada Bellissima was here, they were
commenting on the name.