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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2020-04-28 Work Session Meridian City Council Work Session April 28, 2020. A Meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 4:32 p.m., Tuesday, April 28, 2020, by Mayor Robert Simison. Members Present: Robert Simison, Joe Borton, Luke Cavener, Treg Bernt, Jessica Perreault, Brad Hoaglun and Liz Strader. Also present: Chris Johnson, Adrienne Weatherly, Bill Nary, Dave Miles, Mark Niemeyer, Joe Bongiorno and Caleb Hood. Item 1: Roll-call Attendance: X Liz Strader X Joe Borton _X_ Brad Hoaglun _X_Treg Bernt X Jessica Perreault _X_ Luke Cavener _X_ Mayor Robert E. Simison Simison: Okay. I'm going to call the meeting to order. For the record is Tuesday, April 28th, at 4:32 p.m. We will begin this meeting with roll call attendance. Item 2: Adoption of Agenda Simison: Okay. Item 2 is adoption of the agenda. Bernt: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Bernt. Bernt: I move that we adopt the agenda as published. Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Hoaglun. Hoaglun: I second the motion. Simison: I have a motion and a second to adopt the agenda as published. Is there any discussion on the motion? If not, all those in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay. The ayes have it. MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT. Item 3: Consent Agenda [Action Item] A. Approve Minutes of April 14, 2020 City Council Work Session Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda May 12,2020— Page 4 of 284 Meridian City Council Work Session April 28,2020 Page 2 of 25 B. Approve Minutes of April 14, 2020 City Council Regular Meeting C. Approve Minutes of April 21, 2020 City Council Work Session D. Approve Minutes of April 21, 2020 City Council Regular Meeting E. Final Plat for Burlingame Subdivision No. 2 ( H-2020-0034) by Engineering Solutions LLP, Located at 1923 N. Black Cat Rd. F. Final Order for Inglewood Place Subdivision No. 1 (H-2020- 0028) by The Pointe at Meridian, LLC, Located at 3250 E. Victory Rd. G. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for Hill's Century Farm North (H-2019-0134) by Martin L. Hill, Hill & Hill Properties, Located at the Southeast Corner of S. Eagle Rd. and E. Amity Rd. H. Pathways Agreement Between the Nampa Meridian Irrigation District and the City of Meridian for TM Crossing No. 4 Path Agreement I. City of Meridian Financial Report - March 2020 J. AP Invoices for Payment - 04/23/20 - $1,242,551.95 Simison: And for the record we will show that Council Woman Perreault has joined us as of 4:33. Item 3 is the Consent Agenda. Bernt: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Bernt. Bernt: I move that we approve the Consent Agenda. For the Mayor to sign and the Clerk to attest. Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Hoaglun. Hoaglun: I second the motion. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda May 12,2020— Page 5 of 284 Meridian City Council Work Session April 28,2020 Page 3 of 25 Simison: I have a motion and a second to approve the Consent Agenda. Any discussion on the motion? If not, all those in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay. The ayes have it. MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT. Item 4: Items Moved From the Consent Agenda [Action Item] Simison: Had no items moved to the Consent Agenda. Item 5: Department/Commission Reports [Action Item] A. Mayor's Office: Growth Areas Discussion Simison: So, we will move into Item 5-A, Mayor's Office growth area discussion -- or areas discussion. I'm going to turn this over to Mr. Miles. Miles: Thank you, Mayor. Good afternoon, Council. Appreciate you taking the opportunity. I wanted to come back to you and talk about the growth areas conversation that we had started off back in early March. We were in front of you talking about growth areas. And, Chris, do you have the -- there you go. So, if you recall, this was a map that we introduced to you in concept at our early March conversation and, really, stepping back a little bit, this is -- we are looking for ways to convey information for you all, as well as the community, about where city resources are focused and that's kind of the high level takeaway of what this effort is -- is about with this tool and what the conversation that we are trying to have with you all is. So, with this tool we talked about it in the March session, some of the comments from you all indicated that we would like to see some feedback from our stakeholders, including key partners like the school district and highway district and so we have gone back since that time, we have talked with the school district particularly. You will see on -- the map currently has locations of future site schools, those that are either owned by the district or those that are planned for the district, so -- it's a little tough to see. Chris, if you can zoom in. Those that are in purple -- Chris, for conversation purposes let's focus on what would be the southeast part of the city. Yeah. Thank you. Those that are circled in purple are owned by the district and those that are not circled, but in black, are sites that the district has identified. So, we have got that layer cleaned up and placed on there for future schools only. The existing schools are there, we do have them, but they clutter the map quite extensively, so we thought it would be a little easier to see by taking those off. Additionally, we worked with the transportation committee and Council approved project -- road project plan that you all approved recently and put those projects into this plan. They are identified by the red squares and the blue circles in terms of prioritization. We did only prioritize and put on the map the first 15 and any additional projects beyond ranking 15 that were prioritized by ACHD. So, there are a few numbers in there beyond number 15. We also included the ACHD integrated five year work plan road and intersection projects. Those you see are either the blue line or represented by a blue circle for an intersection. Now, it's difficult to see, because the layer of the city-approved projects overlaps the ACHD layer. So, in an Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda May 12,2020— Page 6 of 284 Meridian City Council Work Session April 28,2020 Page 4 of 25 intersection you only see the bubbled number that represents the city-identified priority, but underneath it is the -- the corresponding ACHD project as well. So, the intent really is to look -- Chris, if I could ask him to maybe zoom out one click. The other direction. Sorry, Chris. So, that we can see more of the city in one view. Thank you. The intent really is -- is that, for instance, in the southwest you can see primarily where key resources are being focused. You have sewer areas that are represented by the yellow -- areas in yellow. The area in what is a lighter yellow is area that's already annexed. You see the prioritized road and intersection projects in the red and the blue squares and circles correspondingly. You also have the ACHD projects that are identified there, particularly in the southeast part of town. We have future fire stations. I can't drive. Chris, on the left-hand menu there is the future layer. If you can open that up. So, you can see Fire Station Eight is scheduled to be down there. That's identified as a project under our impact fees and, really, where we are trying to go is to begin to see that many of the city resources are being focused in this area. A lot of the agency partnership efforts are being focused in this area and by logic it dictates that the growth efforts that are being driven by the city per city infrastructure and city efforts, are occurring in this area. Correspondingly, we can look at the northwest area and we will see similarities out there as well. But I figured for purposes of presentation we could focus on this area for the moment and it begins to paint a picture, again, where we are focusing our resources, where partners are focusing their resources, helping the community to understand that the efforts we are making are occurring in these areas and we are encouraging the infrastructure to grow here and thereby encouraging folks to look into these areas and look at these areas as areas that are growing. That's really all I have from a map and a tool perspective and I would turn it over to you all for any comments, any questions that that may generate on your behalf for this purpose. Simison: Thank you, Dave. And I will just chime in a little bit. You know, in reference to the CFP that you all received, I have tried to put together a CFP which does highlight these two areas that we have been talking about, northwest and southeast, as the areas where we are -- we are planning to invest our resources. We -- we have talked about police substations. Last week I think -- as the weeks are going together-- we did approve a concept spending money for additional Comprehensive Plan work up in northwest Meridian and the one thing that you don't see on this map, but I think it's important for our Public Works Department, is traditionally they are going to be putting stuff -- you know, putting resources into where the road improvement projects are occurring. You know, they go in tandem with that, but if we are saying that an area is not a priority, that they don't have to put resources towards putting water and sewer to those areas if they are not what we would consider growth priority areas and at the end of the day I know the question is out there, well, what does this mean? Well, I think what this means is that this is a guide for our community as to where we would like to see growth occur. I think from a simple standpoint, if we are putting our resources in northwest and southeast, the message to the community is we are likely not going to go invest and build our future Station Number Nine anytime soon. So, areas that are going to be served by that are -- are not where we would want to see development applications in the near or foreseeable future. That -- that to me is the end result of this and it lays out a plan for us and a plan for our community. It doesn't mean people can't submit, but I think it puts a significant Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda May 12,2020— Page 7 of 284 Meridian City Council Work Session April 28,2020 Page 5 of 25 hurdle on those projects that they are going to have to bring a lot more than they may normally -- normally otherwise do to the table or to be considered, because we don't plan to invest resources there. So, for the record, I just want to note that Councilman Cavener has joined us at 4:40 from that standpoint and be happy to -- for any other questions that you would like to ask me, Dave -- we have Chief Niemeyer on here as well. Strader: Mr. Mayor, it's Liz. Simison: Council Woman Strader. Strader: I guess -- I think one thing that might be helpful -- I think it's on most of our applications, but just -- if the map could clearly kind of delineate -- if the final map could kind of delineate those growth areas and sort of put the five minute fire response time as a -- as a boundary I think for me that would be really helpful as we are looking at future opportunities to develop. Simison: I think that's easy enough to lay out, knowing that it is sometimes a moving target. As some things develop that line will shift for a variety of reasons, but it's definitely a good point to continue to see. Miles: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Mr. Miles. Miles: And, Council Woman Strader, we do have that layer on here. I think one of the challenges with a tool like this and why we have gone with the GIS sort of web based platform is that it can get turned on and turned off. However, as maps go, maps become very cluttered the more layers we turn on, but we can certainly provide that and show that in a static state, if that's a final product that you would like to see. Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Which one was that? Hoaglun: That was me. Simison: Councilman Hoaglun. Hoaglun: Question -- question for Dave. Dave, the yellow sections I want to make sure I understand. Are those areas that are currently under development with sewer and water? Miles: Mr. Mayor and Councilman Hoaglun, yes, the yellow -- the bright yellow that you see there is currently serviced by sewer and within the five minute response for fire. Those two items combined. The area that is down to the south in the lighter yellow is only representing area that's been annexed and encumbered -- entitled, excuse me, but it's Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda May 12,2020— Page 8 of 284 Meridian City Council Work Session April 28,2020 Page 6 of 25 not yet inside of the five minute response and sewer service. It may be inside of one or the other, but it's not inside of both of those at this time and, again, we do have the layers on there where we can turn things on and off. If you would like to spend time going through that we can do that to give you some better visual representation, but that's what those two yellow colors represent. Hoaglun: Thank you, Dave. And, Mr. Mayor, if we might have Chris pull out a little bit, so we can see more of the northwest corner of our community. Miles: Mr. Mayor, Mr. Hoaglun, again, what you see -- Councilman Hoaglun, again, what you see there is the areas in yellow served by sewer and the five minute response currently and, then, you can see there the existing owned -- or, sorry, future owned school sites or future school sites that the district has planned for, but doesn't yet own, as well as the future fire station. Simison: And the one thing I would add, just so it doesn't go unsaid, anything future with the school is contingent on a bond passing before it is to be built, so -- and the likely -- with the -- with the blue lines on there, the ACHD projects, those are future ACHD road projects that require things like gas tax, which is not being generated right now, to be built. So, everything is within a certain --this is what the plans are, but funding will be necessary for all of it to manifest over time. Bongiorno: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Deputy Chief. Bongiorno: I know just -- first off, Mayor and City Council, I just wanted to thank you for this map. The map has been very helpful for me with my job and also I have already been contacted by a couple developers asking me where is the city going? Because they are out buying property now in that McDermott, Ten Mile, northern -- north-south corridor. So, there is -- there is more -- there is more coming and so they are just asking where and so I'm like, you know, you're -- you're going to have to work with the city on that one. It's coming. So, the map is very important and I'm -- and I'm not sure if Mark wants to add anymore to that, but -- thank you. Simison: So, Council, what I have not -- you know, Mr. Miles said what -- what's the end goal today. You know, I'm not asking for a formal resolution that says these are our growth priority areas, but I am looking for a general consensus from Council if they agree, this is where we should be communicating to the community where -- where we envision and will be investing our time, energy into future development outside of our core and so that's kind of really the level that we are at. You know, I -- I don't know that this means anything beyond that today. If there is further elements that we want to start looking at in terms of incentive -- incentives or disincentives, that's a future conversation, but I think by the fact that we are investing resources in this area, just from police and fire, that is the incentive. That's allowing for growth and development to occur, as -- it's just a very basic level from that standpoint. But that's kind of the -- where I was hoping we could get to today, unless Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda May 12,2020— Page 9 of 284 Meridian City Council Work Session April 28,2020 Page 7 of 25 you say that, no, we should not be growing in one of these two areas, I would ask for you to speak up, so that we can remove it from the --from the CFP and plan accordingly under just one of these areas. Bernt: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Bernt. Bernt: I was under the impression that we were -- these -- these -- these two areas -- these growth areas were -- were discussed. I think I -- in my opinion we have always been going south up until Owyhee High School got built and approved and that sort of changed our plans a hair. I think that, you know, obviously, the northwest and, then, the south I think is -- I think is where -- in my opinion where we are heading. Also I think that, you know, we need to focus on in-fill projects as well. So, those are the three talking points that I feel are -- are most important and should be on our radar going forward. Borton: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Borton. Borton: I think some of the -- the question left that you hinted at was if -- if the yellow is depicting what might be the -- the priority areas, how that -- again, how that's specifically going to be used. If I'm a -- if I'm a developer in a different area that's not in the yellow am I -- am I discouraged from -- from applying? Am I -- what's -- what's the ultimate outcome where a development -- the development community would say I'm contiguous and I can pull water, sewer, because I'm contiguous, but I'm not in the yellow. So, what's the practical effect of a priority area to me? Is it going to mean a different treatment by the city, a different recommendation or decision by the Council? I assume it's one of those things, otherwise, there is no real impact of having a priority area. We would notify the development community that these are where we could most efficiently grow, but if they still want to expand elsewhere, what does that -- what does that ultimately mean, so -- I get the intent, but trying to understand what that means at what stage. Simison: And I think just for help, Dave, can you put on the seven and eight five minute fire response times? I want people to see what -- what we are really talking about from a priority growth area, because it's really going to be the areas in red or whatever the response times are. Not the yellow. The yellows are just areas which are able to easily annex right now, not where -- that's not where we are limiting growth to those parcels. Just want to make sure that's clear. Borton: Okay. Simison: You know, that will go fairly large coverage. So, Dave, if you can -- Miles: Yeah. Mr. Mayor. Chris, if you could -- it's probably easiest. Do you want to brave giving me controls and see if the speed is not impacted? Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda May 12,2020— Page 10 of 284 Meridian City Council Work Session April 28,2020 Page 8 of 25 Johnson: Mr. Miles, it should be on your screen to take control right now. Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor, as -- as Dave and Chris are working on that, I -- I wanted to follow up on Councilman Borton's comments tonight and he used the word that I think is most important and that's efficiently provide the services. So, even if they are not in these areas, if we can provide efficient services or in an efficient manner where there is water, there is sewer, their response times are in good shape, I wouldn't discourage developers from seeking an application, but certainly we have priority areas. And I know the city's invested quite a bit in south Meridian over the years and we are seeing the growth in the northwest corner of our community. So, definitely those are priority areas to me, but if-- if there is efficiencies to be gained for developers and in-fill development, as Councilman Bernt mentioned, I wouldn't dissuade them from pursuing that. But being efficient, not having to extend new services or -- or going for after other-- other things that are outside boundaries that -- that call for longer response times, that's -- that that is concerning. Miles: And Mr. Mayor? Simison: Turned on the sewer, but not the fire. Miles: Right. Sorry. I just wanted to maybe walk through what I was going to do before -- before just doing it and throwing it in -- in the -- in the Council's lap to -- to discern. So, what I just turned on was the current areas that are served by sewer and, then, I will turn on the fire response and what you will see is that overlap and some areas do and some areas don't and that's the reason that these areas in yellow show up as serviceable under our definition, because they currently have sewer, they currently have fire. We can turn off the sewer response time and look at just what the five minute response is currently today and you can see where it's at and, similarly, we can go up to the northwest and take a look at that area as well and so there you have only the five minute response as it is today and now you have got the sewer added into there. Now, what we also have the ability to do is we can turn on the fire response as it's predicted based on the location of the future fire station in the northwest, in this case we identified it as Station Number Seven and if we throw that layer on you can see that now the entirety of that northwest is covered in that five minute response parameter. So, I think, to Councilman Borton's question, I think that was -- do we have that capability and can we see that. I know that several of the Council Members have asked that question. Yes, we have all -- all manner of tools in this regard and to the -- to the question of what to do with it, I think that's a little bit of the -- from -- from my perspective hearing Council discussions with school districts and other agencies and other folks, providing the best information we can to you all as decision makers, as -- as applications come in as development proceeds forward and I will stand there for any comments or questions. Strader: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Council Woman Strader. Thank you. Yeah. I think that this tool is really important and I think it could be really helpful to our development community. You know, if Council is in broad agreement that we want services to be in place, particularly the Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda May 12,2020— Page 11 of 284 Meridian City Council Work Session April 28,2020 Page 9 of 25 sewer sheds because of the exorbitant cost and fire services in five minutes and we have some general alignment around kind of what we are looking for, it seems like you could almost make a map, you know, by year with what we are predicting to do. So, we know where the services are in place today. No one can predict the future, but assuming the next fire stations happen within a certain time frame, you could almost map that out for people and really give them a sense of where we are going. But I do think it's important to outline our priorities of where we want to grow, so that we are just doing it efficiently, you know, for the taxpayers. Simison: And back to the comments that were made, I don't think that anyone is saying no one can apply for an application to do it. I just think it's important for people and Council to understand where we are investing our resources moving forward, so that you -- you have that information when you make a decision. And, again, I go back to -- if you don't want to grow in these areas or one of these areas, tell us now, so we can pull back one of the fire stations and put the fire station where you do want to grow, because we can't grow in all -- we really have three growth areas left and we can't grow in all three at the same time. The one in the -- the one in the southwest not only requires a fire station, it requires the McDermott trunk line to be built. You know, these are the type of costs that you are looking to incur. If you want to grow -- tell people that's where you want to grow and develop. So, it's -- in essence, I'm saying you can pick two of the three, but you can't pick all three or you can choose to pick none and we will provide services as we see fit to areas without any of that certainty about when things will be developed in one area. Perreault: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Council Woman Perreault. Perreault: I agree with Councilman Hoaglun in the sense of I don't know that we -- we necessarily say that we are specifically focusing on southeast and northwest, it's more along the lines of if there is an area where we can grow efficiently and it doesn't incur additional cost to the city, then, that's -- then we just allow those applicants to make the request and -- and I'm not saying that the city is trying to make a statement that -- that those are the only locations that -- that we grow in, but I am a little bit concerned that that might -- that we might inadvertently communicate that and so I don't -- I don't know that I have a solution for that. I understand that what you are requesting is along the lines of how we are looking at our future expenditures and our budget and in addition to how we are guiding or recommending growth to happen with our development community. So, agree with Councilman Borton that we should do it in the most efficient way and if that means moving to the southwest and the northeast and those are the -- those are the locations that we -- that we focus on. Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor -- or Dave and Chief Niemeyer, fire stations, I mean both of these areas are seeing development. There is -- there is a lot of opportunity in both to the southeast and the northwest. Can we do two fire stations simultaneously from a budgeting standpoint? Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda May 12,2020— Page 12 of 284 Meridian City Council Work Session April 28,2020 Page 10 of 25 Niemeyer: I think -- Councilman Hoaglun, Mr. Mayor, I can chime in first from the operational logistics side of things. Can we build two? The answer is yes. We have engaged our architects. We have engaged DBSI, who was our general contractor for Station Six. They actually recommend if it's feasible, if you can do it, financially it's the way to go, because you can move the crews from one station to the next and what we have been told and we have been asking for some harder numbers on this -- is that there is some cost savings in doing two at the same time, as opposed to spacing them out throughout a few years, three or four years, however you look at that. From a financial standpoint can we afford it? We have been looking at our impact fee collections certainly moving forward. We are not sure what that means with the times that we're in, but we have been staying in touch with Todd as far as the health of our impact fee fund and we anticipate that by the time we get to the phase of building we would be -- if not close to having the funds within our impact fee fund to be there. Hopefully that answers your question. Bernt: For both or -- sorry, Mr. Mayor. For both or for just one? Niemeyer: There is some unknowns, Councilman Bernt, quite honestly. We need to get harder numbers from the -- from the builders to know if we did two at one time what would that cost look like as compared to just doing one and, then, doing another one two, three, four years down the road. Simison: And just to follow up, I mean Mark is only talking about building the buildings. Niemeyer: Yes. Simison: We have the ability to build the buildings. I'm not worried about that. We can build them and we can even repay with impact fees as they come in if -- if they are not collected at that point in time. The bigger question for Council -- and this is not just this Council, because you all may or may not be there in -- two years from now. The operational costs of operating both of these have certain assumptions built into them that you will have to consider and weigh as well. Niemeyer: Right. Simison: In order to -- the VFR it anticipates taking three percent every year for the next four years, except for this year. If you don't take that three percent in any given year, I can't open the two fire stations, so -- Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor? Yeah. That was my follow-up question was, okay, from -- from the operational side of things, not only the ongoing financing for what's needed, but also, Chief, can you speak to the ability to get bodies -- qualified bodies into those fire stations to -- to operate them? Niemeyer: Mr. Mayor, Councilman Hoaglun, thanks for the question. Good question. As far as hiring new firefighters, we do not see an issue with that. Our last probably six years Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda May 12,2020— Page 13 of 284 Meridian City Council Work Session April 28,2020 Page 11 of 25 when we have put on new entry level testing, we have had over 400 people apply and go through that process. That's not a challenge. The secondary challenge would be do we have time to get people ready to promote into those ranking positions that we need to open new fire stations. For example, company officer, engineer, et cetera. You know, depending on the timing and I think as we lay out our CFP and we have worked very closely with Todd and with the Mayor's office on the CFP. We have time to get people ready to promote. We have got enough people coming up through the ranks, eligible to get them through the testing process and ready for promotion by the time these fire stations would be opened and staffed. Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor, Chief, thanks. Strader: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Council Woman Strader. Strader: Is it possible -- I -- I want to ask a couple questions about this, too, maybe to just zoom in on the piece of south Meridian where the new fire station would be built with the future service overlap and, then, if there is a view that would, then, show us areas that have developed that may not be served in a five minute response today, if there are any. Miles: Mr. Mayor and Council Woman Strader, if I understand your question correctly, you are wanting to see parcels that are under development as they sit today with the sewer and the fire response; is that correct? Strader: Yeah. I think what I'm trying to get at, just thinking out loud, but if I had to prioritize, like I think it's important for us to make sure that places developing now have good service; right? Owyhee High School is already happening, so it seems like we have to, you know, serve that area in northwest Meridian. I guess what I'm getting at is between northwest and the southern part of Meridian is there a prioritization among those two locations as well? Simison: Well, Dave, should be able to get there, but I -- I know that we have places in south Meridian that don't have the fire coverage, just like northwest and the question will be how much. You know, it-- it's twofold, because everything that's in the light yellow has the ability to develop once they get sewer there. Mile: Yeah. Mr. -- Mr. Mayor and Council Woman Strader, what I'm trying to show you is a comparison of three different scenarios. So, currently what's turned on is the current five minute response and the current sewer serviceability, which you can see here in this black line is a -- as I show my -- my mouse. To the Mayor's comment, these areas in the lighter yellow are already annexed and entitled, so once they get sewer there there is nothing that I understand -- and Mr. Nary can interject, but nothing saying that they can't develop, even though they may be outside of the five minute response. Compare that to an area to which the Mayor referred to over in the southwest where you have got areas that are both outside of the five minute response and the current sewering areas and that Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda May 12,2020— Page 14 of 284 Meridian City Council Work Session April 28,2020 Page 12 of 25 are not annexed, which affords the Council and the decision makers the ability to decide what's best for the city as it grows, as I understand it. I think that is addressing your question, Council Woman Strader, but I'm not a hundred percent certain. Simison: Yeah. This -- this shows Sky Mesa. You can see -- it's hard to tell, but Sky Mesa area is outside of the five minute response currently, as well as some of -- on the other side of Paramount -- I'm sorry -- of Century Farms. It's -- if you want to pull it over a little bit. So, those are the areas. But did you have another question. Council Woman Strader? Strader: I guess just a follow-up thought. I mean so in my mind I am -- I am comfortable telling developers that the southwestern portion of Meridian is not necessarily one of our top priority growth areas, because we are going to struggle already to provide adequate -- I think fire response times to these other areas that are already developing that need service. So, I think there is a lot of value to that staging and prioritization and I guess I need to see a little more detail on the cost savings of doing two fire stations simultaneously, but if -- if there is a significant cost savings it -- it seems like it's worth evaluating that. Perreault: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Council Woman Perreault. Perreault: Dave, could you also turn on the fire response times on one station -- it -- is Station Eight already included in this or is -- would that be this -- the future station number? Miles: Mr. Mayor, Council Woman Perreault, that is -- that is what we have identified as a future station and it's not currently representing the five minute response, but I did just turn it on. Perreault: Okay. Miles: So, you might see that difference. Perreault: So, what I'm noticing the -- the difference between the two areas is it seems like there is not as much sewer availability currently in the southeast as there is response time, even without the new station being built and, then, it seems like there is kind of the vice-versa in the northwest where there is -- there is sewer capacity, but not fire response time. So, we have two different issues going on and I don't know if that -- if that -- there is a factor-- a cost factor whether it's more expensive to bring in sewer lines versus build fire stations. I don't know. Just throwing that out there. Simison: I guess from my perspective, from what I am aware, most of what's occurring in southeast is being pulled by development and it's -- it's coming. Up in northwest will likely involve the city making that investment or some of it potentially to open up that area Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda May 12,2020— Page 15 of 284 Meridian City Council Work Session April 28,2020 Page 13 of 25 for development. Not -- it doesn't have to. It could still be developer driven, but I think part of the question ultimately becomes you invest in the sewer infrastructure into northwest or do you start building the McDermott trunk line to open up the southwest part of Meridian for development. Those are the -- those are the type of conversations that this is really leading to. Is this going to help our Public Works Department prioritize where they think they should be putting in resources for where the development may likely occur. It's -- and all these situations it's not a matter of one or the other, it's a matter of timing about when those investments are made. So, Council, I would like us to get on to the next item, unless there is -- if you have got a real hesitation with this, I would ask you to speak up now and we can bring it back. Otherwise, I would like you to use this as a guide moving forward and we can have further conversations about what it means, but it would be useful for our -- I think our Community Development Department even to help have conversations with people who are coming to look to develop on the west side of Meridian Road in south of our community and we know those conversations are occurring as well. It doesn't mean they can't apply and I think to the point I said earlier, it's just that people may have to do more if they want to be compliant. I mean I think the fire chief could tell you they want to sprinkler all their homes in an area where we are not going to have fire service in the future. That's something that they could do. If those are the types of things that Council wants to consider to allow development to occur in other parts where we may not be investing a fire station for the next seven, eight years. But I don't want to get too far down those policy conversations right now. It's not my intention. Cavener: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Cavener. Cavener: Thanks, Mr. Mayor. I appreciate what I really think you and staff are -- are trying to do to kind of-- essentially you're building a map about where the city is going to head growth wise and I think that's -- that's to be commended, but I guess I'm -- I am taking an issue with that. I feel like that there is only three destinations -- there are only three -- three different routes that we can take. So, I struggle as the last time this topic was brought up identifying that these areas are, quote, unquote, priority growth areas. If we really wanted to say we are going to get serious about priority growth, then, it should be in-fill, end of sentence, in my opinion. I will always struggle with even insinuating that development in certain areas is to be discouraged. If we want to have a conversation about where we need to build our fire stations and fire station priorities, I think that's a different conversation. I still go back to the subject of -- of the five minute travel time or five minute response time and what that's derived from and why it's different than a lot of other municipalities across the country. So, even extending our response time out to five and a half or six minutes, you start to gain a lot of coverage on this map. So, I appreciate the thoughtful comments and where I, essentially, see this going, but you asked for feedback if we are opposed or if this is something we are not necessarily behind and I just think that I owe it to you to let you know that I -- I -- I continue to struggle with this idea of identifying only two areas that we are going to allocate our resources towards in the future. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda May 12,2020— Page 16 of 284 Meridian City Council Work Session April 28,2020 Page 14 of 25 Strader: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Council Woman Strader. Strader: I think just --just to maybe give something to chew on; right? Like I think where I -- where I do get on board with it -- and for me the difference is I don't think we should be prepared to invest in a whole new sewer trunk line. I mean I think we could have someone outline for us what the cost to the city would be for that and for us to do that would be necessary to really open up development, from what I understand, in the southwest part of Meridian and so I am okay with discouraging that and I agree with, you know, there is a prioritization. In-fill is, obviously, the priority, but I think it is okay to say we are not prepared to make certain investments at this time. Do you look at it that way, Luke, or do you -- Mr. Mayor, if you want to direct that to Luke, but I would be curious his feedback. Simison: Yes. And -- Councilman Cavener. Cavener: Thanks, Mr. Mayor. It's -- it's a really valid question, Council Woman Strader. I guess for me at the end of the day the connection that -- that sewer trunk line is not something that is coming from our taxpayers; right? That -- that is coming from -- from ratepayers and from connection fees and development is going to bore the cost of that. So, it's not a conversation of because we are investing in sewer trunk line that means we can't do a park or we can't build a third fire station or a second fire station or we can't hire more police officers. I think because those are -- that's an Enterprise funded project. From the planning standpoint I think to the Mayor's point that is -- that is an important component. We don't want to necessarily have our Public Works staff just kind of throwing darts at a dartboard about where should we go work today, but from the coast standpoint, that's something that I personally am not as concerned with, as I am with kind of the -- the plan about this is where we are going to allocate other city services in the future. If that makes sense. Strader: Mr. Mayor, follow up. Simison: Council Woman Strader. Strader: I think -- I think where -- where it starts to become a concern for me -- it's not just building it; right? It's supporting it. The personnel that have to go and service it, then, we layer in all the additional services in each area. It just feels like if we don't set priorities we might see growth happen all over the place at one time and I guess that -- that's my fear is that if we don't set that prioritization we will find our services stretched and the taxpayers will ultimately have to pay for it if -- if impact fees and other things are not adequate or if that cost isn't fully captured, but I respect your opinion about it. Cavener: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Cavener. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda May 12,2020— Page 17 of 284 Meridian City Council Work Session April 28,2020 Page 15 of 25 Cavener: I'm just curious. Have we ever used -- in our city's history have we used General Funds to pay for sewer line or water line construction development? I mean that might be a better question for Todd. I don't think that we have. Simison: Not that I am aware of, no. Cavener: Mr. Mayor, to that point I think Council Woman Strader has -- has a really valid point. If -- if growth that is being paid for by the Enterprise Fund is -- because it's not managed appropriately it's causing an undue burden to the taxpayer, that's an important piece to look at. It's not something, again, that I -- I thought that we had dealt with, but I think it's -- it's a very valid point to share and something that's definitely worthy of consideration. Simison: If I can say, I think that's a conversation that will be had and it's a separate conversation, but it's important to recognize the -- the cost of Public Works infrastructure at this point in time, including new growth, does have an impact to our current ratepayers. I'm just going to leave that right there for right now for conversation in the future. Borton: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Borton. Borton: I think one collateral benefit of -- of what you are trying to accomplish is if there is some concern that an area is not the most efficient region to develop, that -- that they are aware of it early. So, if we are going to focus our investments in a couple of areas and not the southeast in this example, then, the sooner that that can be communicated consistently, well before it gets in front of the Planning and Zoning Commission and at Council, I think everybody benefits. So, that's probably one of the intended -- maybe unintended consequences and benefits of trying to do what you're doing. Simison: Councilman Borton, thank you. That -- that is accurate. I think it lays the groundwork to say here is where we want to see growth occur. If you're going to go outside of this area you may have additional hurdles, because we are not putting the resources in those areas from the city's perspective and the one thing that's lost on this is the Police Department. Now, it gets more and more expensive for them to patrol larger areas, so the more we can concentrate where they need to be investing their patrol officers the better and the last thing I'm going to say about all of this, I honestly believe that these maps are just -- I'm going to use the word codifying -- codifying what's already occurring in our community, whether we like it or not, but it's where development is taking us and we are just agreeing from the city's perspective that, yes, we need to -- we need to fall back with this information, because to the point we have already -- this is where the applications are current in these two locations. Do we keep up with the -- with the growth and invest our resources and try to get other people to do the same? That's what this really is. Codifying where we are and where we are headed. I use codifying very loosely, though, for the lawyers on the -- on the call. Council, if we could, so we can try to get on to the other item, if you have any further concerns let's -- I ask you to notify Dave Miles Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda May 12,2020— Page 18 of 284 Meridian City Council Work Session April 28,2020 Page 16 of 25 and we can come back if we need to for further conversation. But the roadmap -- if we decide to do anything more, to Councilman Cavener and Council Woman Strader's comments and talk about, you know, in-fill, that is the -- that should be our priority for growth first and foremost. That's where I think we really talk more about incentives is if we are going to want people to go in other places. This is just telling people where we are helping to establish those boundaries and I would like to stop right there, unless there is anybody else that feels they need to speak on this topic right now. Perfect. B. Community Development Department: Planning Process Improvement Discussion Simison: Okay. Then we will move on to the next item and we will go until 5:45, if that works for everybody, to give a 15 minute break before the next meeting, and I will turn it over to Mr. Hood. Hood: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Members of Council. This is round three. I'm going to try to do this in under the 25 minutes we were just allocated. As a quick refresher, so there are -- there are three documents that are -- that the clerk has uploaded in the packet for this afternoon's meeting. I'm largely going to be working from the -- it's a Word document, I think it's been turned into a pdf, but it's the code changes. So, it's titled Proposed UDC Text Amendments. So, that's the one I would ask if you can have that one handy. There is going to be a couple of references to that document. There is an Excel spreadsheet as well that's uploaded and, then, a cover memo, but working less from those two documents. So, just to kind of quickly bring us back to where we left off last time, I think one of the last comments was actually made by Council Woman Perreault. She just wanted to make sure that -- and I will let you know, by the way, we touched base earlier this week on the direction given thus far. I think we are on the same page, had the same notes in both the process and potential code changes, but I do want to just reiterate, though, things that are -- that are potential code changes do still have to go through the public hearing process. So, there will be a public hearing both before the Planning and Zoning Commission and the City Council, just trying to get at least a solid footing, make sure we are on generally the right page, but you can -- you reserve the right to change your mind as we get through the public hearings and if-- we talked about 500 feet being the appropriate distance to notice for public hearings and now you think it's a thousand after listening to public testimony or you want to go back to 300 feet or whatever. So, again, no -- no real decisions have been made, it's just direction so we hopefully can make that go as smoothly as possible through the public hearing process. Want to make sure -- get that good direction from you. So, then, to kind of pick up again from where we left off last week, hopefully you had some time to chew on and think about scheduling of public hearing items. So, we kind of -- we had a good, healthy discussion I thought last week about should staff wait to schedule public hearings before we get -- or until we get the Ada County Highway District staff report. I don't want to, you know, run through all the pros and cons necessarily to that, but I also want to add to that a little bit -- part of the discuss about receiving public testimony. I think the two are very interrelated and also the staff report timing and having the staff report so that both the Planning and Zoning Commission and -- and you all and the public and the development community have staff Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda May 12,2020— Page 19 of 284 Meridian City Council Work Session April 28,2020 Page 17 of 25 reports in a timely manner to review and comment on is very closely tied to a new section of code that we are proposing and this is on page seven of eight on that proposed UDC text amendment document that I referred to at the beginning. It's a new section, 11-5A- 6H. And, again, I mentioned this I think in the first time we started talking about this, it says that written testimony must be submitted to the city clerk no less than five days prior to the day on which the public hearing is scheduled. We are really looking at three days, but, essentially, what staff has been charged with doing is getting staff reports done, again, in a timely manner sooner. So, a week before, two weeks before these hearings, so that everyone can consume them, think about them, and that still gives them plenty of time to get their comments in writing for the record for everybody to consider. So, I want to just kind of roll that into part of the discussion about scheduling for hearing. Some of the benefits -- potential benefit if we were to wait is to have all of that information present, instead of rushing from sometimes to get ACHD's comments or staff report last minute. One of the things that Council Woman Perreault asked me to just explain to you a little bit more is that process with ACHD and I touched on it last week a little bit with Bill Parsons being our main point of contact with ACHD to try to coordinate hearing dates and for those development applications that are typically larger or controversial or both, he does typically talk to ACHD and say we have got this project, when do you think you will have a staff report or when do you think your Commission action will be and, then, we schedule our Planning and Zoning Commission for after that. We don't always hit that mark. Sometimes there is an appeal that happens and it has to go to the commission. The ones that are approved at their -- at their staff level and aren't -- aren't appealed or are a no review or a comply with, those ones aren't -- aren't an issue -- are probably somewhere in the 90th percentile of all projects that are of that variety that are -- I don't want to classify them all as noncontroversial, but they don't -- they don't rise to the level of having to go to the ACHD commission for a hearing or two and being continued. So, we are talking about a very small percentage of our overall hearing applications that do have that hiccup, if you will, where Planning and Zoning Commission and staff don't have ACHD's comments, but those are usually the big and important ones that we don't have them or we miss it where it is controversial. There are neighborhood concerns. And so this potential change would fix that where you have got neighborhood associations that want to talk about traffic implications, that would all essentially be put to bed before we even get to the Planning and Zoning Commission and -- and, then, staff, again, would have that information and could consider that in part of their recommendation to appointed and elected officials. So, I'm not necessarily advocating one way or the other, I'm just trying to give you all of the information. At the end of the day if a hundred percent of the time you want to know for certain, you know, where ACHD stands on a project, you would need to probably adopt this new policy. This isn't a code, it would just be a policy or a process change for us about not scheduling for public hearings until we get ACHD comments on all development review applications. If not, again, we are somewhere in the 90th percent of all projects that we get those comments in time. So, you would to some degree be penalizing those -- those other projects by a couple of weeks, probably typically on average, if we just made that broad statement of don't schedule until we get ACHD's comments back. So, that's kind of the first order of business is to pick that up and, again, I rolled in a new piece what -- again, what you have before says five days, but it's really three days prior to being a cutoff, basically, to give you a fair shake at considering all the Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda May 12,2020— Page 20 of 284 Meridian City Council Work Session April 28,2020 Page 18 of 25 public comments. There are some other sections of that code as well. It can't just be anonymous comments, you have got to include your name and -- and your address and a couple of other things. But, essentially, that's it. So, with that, Mr. Mayor, that's the first kind of order of business. Simison: Council, one of the things that I didn't get a chance to speak to Caleb about, but I have mentioned to Cameron and I don't know if Caleb's thought on this, but, you know, I have tried to take somewhat of the approach of slow things down to speed things up, where if we do hold off and say we need that information before we schedule, that we shorten the time frames that are -- that we would get our -- through our process, you know, currently is it 75 days, Caleb, that you have from start to end, you know, where we say we will do it in 60 days instead. You know, we try to make up some of the time through our process, because in theory we have the information and people can make educated decisions at the right time. We schedule it once, we don't have to, you know, have -- you know, re-notice and have it come back. I actually think that we will be more efficient with our staff's time, with the community's time, with the developer's time, if we have the information in hand, get the staff reports written and effectively move these through our hearing processes. So, that's my food for thought on this and happy for anyone else to weigh in. Perreault: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Council Woman Perreault. Perreault: I totally agree with you. That was my hope in -- in requesting this change was that it would slow things down to speed things up. In the interim, though, since we have started these discussions, I have received some feedback from some applicants that they -- that our current process -- and I should say current since -- since the end of last year, beginning of this year, has been much longer and -- with their particular applications, of course, than the six to eight weeks which we shoot for and so because of the -- those recent experiences, they -- they have some questions and concerns regarding whether this would -- would slow the process down even more and so I wanted Caleb to -- Caleb to address that if he would and share with me what -- share with everybody I should say what he shared with me about it seeming like things will be able to speed up a bit because of new staffing and whatnot. Hood: Yeah. Mr. Mayor, Council Woman Perreault, thank you. So, for those of you that don't know, we hired a new associate planner. We have actually hired two in the last six months. Since January we have two. So, that will certainly help with the amount of applications we are able to process, particularly hearing level applications. So, that I think is -- is largely going to help, again, move things through the process. We didn't anticipate this COVID hiccup. I think I'm -- I'm confident that we can get back to that six or seven weeks -- a timeline as we kind of discussed last time even a little bit, you know, I think I mentioned eight weeks or so right now is kind of what we are running from when an application is submitted. If we transmit an application right away, that's typically plenty of time to get ACHD's comments. Roughly two months. If we are back to the six weeks -- Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda May 12,2020— Page 21 of 284 Meridian City Council Work Session April 28,2020 Page 19 of 25 now, again, that's -- that's kind of putting the -- or 30 days, that's putting them under the gun, but I'm -- I think a lot of the continuations that we have seen over the last year or so have been due to, again, some controversial projects and being short staffed and I see those going away. We are kind of almost implementing this process inadvertently byjust having to -- this bottleneck in -- in having to cancel some meetings and having some lighter agendas just because we weren't sure how we were going to take public testimony and whatnot, but that bottleneck is kind of opening back up now, again, for the reasons I just mentioned and I'm -- I'm pretty confident that we can go fast again. This -- this go slow part being waiting for ACHD, we could run back into that problem, though, because we have the staff, then, to process the applications. Will we have the data necessary or not is the question. Borton: Mr. Mayor? Perreault: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Borton. Borton: As to this issue I don't have as much concern with -- with requiring those reports to be present before a hearing is set. I just think of our continuing discretion on any application, if we don't feel that -- or Planning and Zoning doesn't feel that we have sufficient information on that particular application to make a decision, from the school district or ACHD, and the staff report has specific importance, which in those rare occasions that -- that application could be continued at the discretion of the decision maker. So, you sort of pick your poison and if -- if, understanding our exercise of that discretion, any person on either Commission or Council can do that or make that request, if necessary, maybe an alternate way to still ensure the decision makers have everything they need. Perreault: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Council Woman Perreault. Perreault: So, my last few years on Planning and Zoning I wish it had been a more rare occasion, but we were continuing a lot of hearings and what was happening was -- is that the public would show up to the hearings and, then, they would be continued and they were very frustrated and -- and while they weren't sending in a-mails to the city, they were expressing their frustration as they would leave the building that they had, you know, taken off work to be there or gotten babysitters to be there and we were frequently hearing from frustrated people who had arrived to the hearing and, then, had it continued. There were some applications that were continued a couple of times, not just for ACHD, but in some situations that was the case and what -- I just -- I guess the decision is really how important is it to us that the -- that the Planning and Zoning has that ACHD report. To them it's very important, but the question really is how important is it to us that they have it and do we want to -- this isn't just about Planning and Zoning, this is also affecting the public every time that something is continued and I became very -- I guess I just became Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda May 12,2020— Page 22 of 284 Meridian City Council Work Session April 28,2020 Page 20 of 25 very sensitive to it, because it was happening more frequently than I thought was necessary and, again, you know, it does depend, like Caleb said, somewhat on the type of application that's coming through -- applications that are coming through, but we are seeing some fairly -- fairly large applications pretty frequently, so that -- that was the -- at least that's the background that I'm coming from with this, is that it's happening more often than I think that it should and I feel -- I felt like it was affecting our public. But, again, if the public isn't writing -- sending in written comments, then, I don't -- I don't know what to say about that. Cavener: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Cavener. Cavener: A couple questions for Caleb, but I think Council Member Perreault brings up a good point, something that I hadn't even considered. Would it be possible for the Planning and Zoning Commission with -- if they were to send a recommendation to the City Council that -- to include within that recommendation that it not be scheduled until an ACHD report was finalized? Is that something that they would have the authority to do in that request? Hood: So, Mr. Mayor, Councilman Cavener, certainly they -- they could. I think the issue that Council Woman Perreault brings up when she was a Planning and Zoning Commissioner is they weren't comfortable forwarding on a recommendation to you. They would continue it, so they had that information to forward on a fully baked recommendation to you. So, in your scenario they wouldn't get there, they aren't -- they aren't sending you things to try to figure out, they are trying to make a final recommendation. Perreault: Mr. Mayor, I will follow up on that if I may. Simison: Council Woman Perreault. Perreault: It's totally fine for us as Council to say, hey, Planning and Zoning, we appreciate very much that you want to have all the information and that you want to review these ACHD reports, but if we don't feel that it's necessary for them to do that or that's not something that we find value in, that's okay. I just think one way or the other we need to communicate that to them. If -- if we are good -- because I don't -- I can't think of any time that that -- we have had a hearing where Council didn't have the -- didn't have the report. It's mostly just not happening before P&Z. So, if we as Council don't feel like P&Z needs to do that and we can tell them don't sweat it, that's all right, too. We just, you know, want to figure that out and see where that value is. Cavener: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Cavener. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda May 12,2020— Page 23 of 284 Meridian City Council Work Session April 28,2020 Page 21 of 25 Cavener: Caleb, one other question for you. Regarding the acceptance of public testimony, is there a department efficiency that's gained by cutting off receiving written testimony three days before a public hearing? Hood: So, Mr. Mayor, Councilman Cavener, obviously, they only represent one department, but for Planning I would say no. The clerk -- I would ask the clerk, though, because they are probably the ones and then -- Cavener: It might have been -- it might be me, but I lost you, Caleb. Bernt: I think it's Caleb. Cavener: I don't think he's able to even hear us on that, so -- Simison: Councilman Cavener, I think -- if I remember correctly, you remember Twin Peaks and the dance of the dream man. That was pretty much it. Bernt: Cut his mic. He's done. Johnson: I'm trying. It's not allowing me -- Hood: -- do your job. Legal may also want to chime in on that one. Cavener: That's a great idea. Nary: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Mr. Nary. Nary: So, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, part of the reason we were supportive of this cutoff on written testimony is because it is sometimes very difficult to even be prepared for the decision makers when people submit things up to the beginning of the meeting, you know, and it doesn't happen very often and sometimes it's not usually very voluminous, but the reality is is something that's submitted at 5:00 o'clock for a 6:00 o'clock meeting, the like -- and it's longer than an e-mail, is not going to get read. It's just -- there is no time. So, it's really difficult to say from a record standpoint that you have really been able to review it and make it part of your decision. The reality is is you're not or you -- as has happened occasionally at P&Z where they have stopped the meeting, so they could go back and read it. Again, people can still testify, they can still come to the meeting and say their peace, it's just trying to put some finality to the written record, so that you can realistically have a chance to review it. Simison: And one of the things that we have talked about doing, just -- the Council President and I talked about moving towards setting the Council agendas on Wednesday and publishing them on Wednesday. That way the public has a few days more notice Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda May 12,2020— Page 24 of 284 Meridian City Council Work Session April 28,2020 Page 22 of 25 about what's going to be prepared, if we move towards setting a date specific to have public comment stopped. Nary: And we picked the three days -- Mr. Mayor, sorry. We picked the three days, because with Council on Tuesday that means they would have, basically, until Saturday to submit it. So, they would have -- if we did get it out Wednesday, they had staff reports ahead of time, there would be adequate time to review it and, then, same thing with P&Z, with the meeting on Thursday, you back it up Wednesday, Tuesday, Monday, so they would have to submit it by the end of business Monday. So, the reality is is there is -- you're trying to give them time, but give the decision makers a true opportunity to review it. Borton: Mr. Mayor? Cavener: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Borton or -- Borton: One quick short question on that issue. Does that timeline apply to the applicant as well? Nary: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, it could. And, again, I think if -- if that's the direction -- because, again, the applicant will be at the meeting. The applicant is going to be able to present. So, I don't see it an issue with them as long as, again, staff reports ahead of time, so they are responding ahead of time, not getting a staff report on a Monday before a Tuesday meeting, I don't see a problem with that. Bernt: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Bernt. Bernt: So, we could say information can be received up until end of business Friday. However, you can continue to submit. However, we don't -- we don't guarantee that it will get read before a Council meeting on Tuesday? Is that what we are saying? Nary: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, if we -- it depends. If we put it in ordinance we will turn off the ability to submit anything in writing. So, they won't be able to submit it and it won't be part of the record. Simison: Mr. Nary, we -- we can't stop people from sending a-mails to the City Council. So, they are going to see them if they -- if they get them. Nary: Oh, that's true. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda May 12,2020— Page 25 of 284 Meridian City Council Work Session April 28,2020 Page 23 of 25 Simison: It's just a matter of whether or not it will be included as part of the hearing record for consideration, is the best that we can do. But, yeah, we can't stop you from reading something that comes in after those dates. Nary: Mr. Mayor, I stand corrected. You're right. I mean if someone sends it to the Council Member directly and not through the clerk -- a clerk could shut off the ability to send it to the clerk, but, obviously, not to the Council. Cavener: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Cavener. Cavener: To that point that's I think where a lot of my hesitation on this comes from is unintended consequences where a citizen a-mails me, I don't see it before the meeting, and I don't -- I don't forward it to the clerk, are we keeping the proper record? I also, I think, struggle with telling the public that we are not going to accept public testimony. I think from an efficiency standpoint, if we had to draw a line, maybe 24 hours before the meeting, because, then, they have the opportunity to, then, come to the meeting. I don't get really excited, honestly, about the three day turn off period. I just think when it comes to stuff like this we want to be as open and available for public testimony and if something comes in and it is compelling, then, the decision makers will have that opportunity to do what it sounds like Planning and Zoning does and pause the meeting to review that. I just -- I'm always leery about limiting the opportunity to receive public testimony, written or in person. Hood: Is anyone else -- Mr. Mayor? Is anyone else interested in -- in maybe a 24 hour, instead of three day, or shall -- is the consensus to drop this and not even have it in the draft code and have a further discussion at public -- public hearings about this? Borton: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Borton. Borton: I'm interested in the -- in the Saturday cut off -- the three day cut off both for the applicant and the public and see how that discussion goes. If that comes up at a public hearing and we hear from folks who would like to participate at the 11th hour, but I would -- I think we can most effectively do our preparations if it's cut off. Simison: And I would just suggest from a practical standpoint what Councilman Cavener suggested, 24 to 48 hours -- why turn it off Saturday at noon? No one's going to -- from the clerk's office is going to do anything with that information until 8.00 a.m. on Monday at the earliest, you know, and I think that that could even be applied more reasonably to P&Z as well. So, Saturday afternoon cutoff makes no sense to me from a practical standpoint, but a 36 hour, 24 hour does. Strader: Mr. Mayor? Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda May 12,2020— Page 26 of 284 Meridian City Council Work Session April 28,2020 Page 24 of 25 Simison: Council Woman Strader. Strader: I do think a 24 hour cutoff makes a lot of sense to me. I think a 36 hour might be okay as well. The 24 hour seems to make a lot of basic sense of just having all the information in, time stamped at one time, fair to the applicant as well, to be able to review. The one thing I'm curious about if we moved to the 36 hour cutoff, I guess my only concern would be -- maybe it's just an independent issue, but I do think that getting that agenda out ahead of time becomes pretty critical and I'm worried it might crunch people a little too much still for just from a practical -- I don't -- I'm not involved too much in the agenda. Just from a practical standpoint is it possible to set the agenda like a full week ahead of time or how does that timing typically work? Simison: I think anything's possible and generally we have a general idea about our public hearings, because they would have already been technically posted from that standpoint. I think some of the other things are more questionable and some of the minor things that are typically on there, the final plats and those type of elements, may not be resolved by doing it that far out in advance. So, I have been struggling with this personally on this -- how far in advance does it really make sense, because I don't want to cry -- cry a foul of our noticing requirements, because once we put the agenda out just what we need to do to be consistent with state code in terms of amending our agenda when we put it out a week in advance or putting it out two weeks in advance really gives me hesitation. But anything's possible. Hood: So, Mr. Mayor, just in conclusion -- we are at time. That is the one -- up until this topic I thought I had pretty good direction and consensus from the Council. This one it seems like you're kind of all over the place on. Maybe I will circle back with you, Mr. Mayor, and my Council liaison and where we land in a 24 to three day type of thing if we want to move forward with this. I guess just in conclusion I would ask you to look at the pdf again, Proposed UDC Text Changes. There are a couple more that if you have any concerns with the yellow ones in particular -- I will just call a couple to your attention. Height in Old Town and Comp Plan map amendment timing. Please e-mail me that. If -- if you want to have more discussion before we potentially propose code changes, go into another workshop, I'm happy to do that, but I think I have generally what I need to move forward with some of these process changes and potential code changes. So, I appreciate your time over the last few weeks. Hoaglun: I will send you an e-mail, Caleb. I had a question on the -- for the daycare. Eleven -- eleven inch by 17 inch piece of paper. That one's always been bothering me. Why can't we make them a campaign sign which is 16 by 24, 18 by 24. 1 mean you want to be seen, but you want to be -- don't want to be obtrusive. To me that's kind of the yard sign size kind of fits that parameter. Kind of that meet in the middle. So, the four by four, yes, was overkill, but I was just having a heartburn over that 11 by 17 inch. So, anyway, just I wanted to throw that out. Hood: Okay. Thank you. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda May 12,2020— Page 27 of 284 Meridian City Council Work Session April 28,2020 Page 25 of 25 Simison: Council, any last comments at this point in time? Okay. If it's all right, just to give people a few minutes, we will try to reconvene and start the next meeting at 6:05 or do you people want to shoot for 6:00? Okay. We are just going to go right up at 6:00, so we have got ten minutes. So, with that do I have a motion? Bernt: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Bernt. Bernt: I move that we adjourn the meeting. Hoaglun: Second. Simison: I have a motion and a second to adjourn the meeting. Is there discussion on the motion? If not, all those in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay. The ayes have it. We are adjourned. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. MEETING ADJOURNED AT 5:49 P. M. (AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS) 5 / 12 / 2020 MAYOR ROBERT SIMISON DATE APPROVED ATTEST: CHRIS JOHNSON - CITY CLERK Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda May 12,2020— Page 28 of 284