HomeMy WebLinkAbout2005 06-21
Meridian City Council Meeting
June 21 , 2005.
The regular meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 7:00 P.M.,
Tuesday, June 7, 2005, by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Mayor Tammy de Weerd, Keith Bird, Shaun Wardle, Charlie
Rountree, and Christine Donnell.
Others Present: Ted Baird, Bill Nary, Will Berg, Anna Canning, Bill Musser, Joe Silva,
Len Grady, and Dean Willis.
Item 1:
Roll-call Attendance:
Roll call.
X Shaun Wardle
X Charlie Rountree
X
X Christine Donnell
X Keith Bird
Mayor Tammy de Weerd
De Weerd: Good evening. I'd like to welcome you to the City Council meeting. It is
Tuesday, June 21 st, at 7:00 p.m. We will open the meeting with roll call attendance.
Item 2:
Pledge of Allegiance:
De Weerd: Okay. Item No.2 is the pledge of allegiance. If you will all stand and join
us in the pledge.
(Pledge of Allegiance recited.)
Item 3:
Community Invocation by Pastor Gordon Slyter, with Treasure Valley
Worship Center:
De Weerd: Since I don't see Pastor Gordon Slyter with us tonight, Bill Nary, would you
like to lead us in the invocation. If you will, please, join us or take this as an opportunity
for a moment of silence. Thank you.
Nary: Lord, thank you for this wonderful evening and the opportunity for this Council to
gather for the City of Meridian and we just ask your hand upon all the actions tonight
and the wisdom that is needed, both in front of this Council and the wisdom and the
decision making that goes before it. God, we just ask for the blessings upon our city
and upon our community and all those that are here this evening and the Council that is
before you, in your name we pray, amen.
Item 4:
Adoption of the Agenda:
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Item No.4 is adoption of the agenda.
Meridian City Council
June 21, 2005
Page 2 of 47
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: We do have some additions and deletions. Under the Consent Agenda, Item C
needs to be pulled. It's not ready in its entirety. Anna has asked under department
reports we have a Planning and Zoning Item A, Planning and Zoning by Anna. And the
Mayor has asked if we -- Item 20, could have an Executive Session under Idaho State
Code 67-2345(1)(f). And with that I'd move that we adopt the revised agenda.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. Anna, Item A under department reports, would that have anything to
do with a vendor?
Canning: No, ma'am.
De Weerd: Like a hot dog vendor?
Canning: No. ma'am.
De Weerd: Maybe you ought to have an A and a B; right? We should have an update.
Canning: Okay.
De Weerd: Okay.
Bird: I agree with that.
De Weerd: Okay. The second agrees?
Rountree: That's fine with me.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIES: ALL AYES.
Item 5:
Consent Agenda:
A.
Approve Minutes of May 24, 2005 City Council Regular Meeting:
B.
Sanitary Sewer and Water Main Easement for Ferauson
Enterprises. Inc.:
C.
Request to Dispose of computer equipment:
Meridian City Council
June 21, 2005
Page 3 of 47
J.
D.
Resolution No. 05-475 Amendment to Standard
Operation Policy and Procedure Manual to Add New Policies;
2.9 (Trial Service Period for Promotions and Transfers; 5.5
Director's Benefits Program; 6.2.6 Cell Phones and 6.14
Clothing Attire and Allowance; And Also to Amend the
Following Policies 2.8 Introductory Period of Employment; 3.4
Compensation Program; 4.5 Bereavement Leave; 4.7 Military
Leave; 5.4 Education Reimbursement and 6.2.2 Use of City
Owned Telephones and Cell Phones, Fax and Copy Machines
and Computers:
E.
Sanitary Sewer and Water Main Easement for Bonito No.2:
F.
Sanitary Sewer and Water Main Easement for Mussell Corner
Subdivision:
G.
Water Main Easement for Cherry CrossinQ No.2:
H.
Water Meter Easement for Cherry CrossinQ No.2:
I.
Three Party License Aareement with Nampa Meridian IrriQation
District - Master Pathway:
Three Party License Aareement with Nampa Meridian IrriQation
District - Finch Lateral aka South Siou h:
K.
StreetliQht Agreement for Settlement Bridae No.2:
L.
Aareement for Hookup to Services. outside of City Limits for
Mr. David R. Purnell ( 5930 North Locust Grove Road):
M.
Amendment to Historic Preservation Consultant Aareement:
N.
Approve Beer and Wine License for Harvest Buffet - 48 East
Fairview Avenue:
O.
Water M.!i!:!...Easemen~ for D~(2,535sQf easement):
P.
~n Easemen~ for Direc~Y..ï.J3.649sQf easement).=.
Q.
Approve Bills:
De Weerd: Item No.5.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
Meridian City Council
June 21, 2005
Page 4 of 47
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move on the Consent Agenda that we pull item number C and the resolution
number on item D is 05-475 and with that I move we approve the Consent Agenda and
for the Mayor to sign and the clerk to attest on all proper papers.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. The motion is to approve the Consent Agenda as amended. Mr.
Berg, will you, please, call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Donnell, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 6.
Department Reports:
1.
Unified Development Code:
De Weerd: Okay. Item 6 is Department Reports. I'll go ahead and turn this over to
Anna.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the first item I wanted to talk to you
about was two weeks ago in my raspy normal sore throat voice we talked about the new
zoning ordinance, the Unified Development Code, and you had indicated that tonight
you would be ready to give me a hearing date, so that we could go ahead and notice
that and move that along in the process.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, do you have anything you would like to raise with Anna in
regards to the code needing further clarification or are you ready to set a hearing date?
I would note, just as a recognition, the City of Meridian attended last week our
Association of Idaho Cities and the process used to develop the Unified Development
Code through our Process Improvement Group, utilizing stakeholders, received an
award, a city achievement award, so I would like to congratulate our director Anna.
Canning: Thank you for everybody.
De Weerd: Okay. Council?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird?
Bird: I'm ready to bring it forward and set a Public Hearing and get on with it.
Meridian City Council
June 21, 2005
Page 5 of 47
De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Berg, what is the earliest date we can put this on for a public
hearing?
Berg: Madam Mayor, probably the soonest would be the 12th. I understand we don't
have a meeting on the 5th and I don't think we want to do it the 19th. And I don't
remember what was on the 12th as far as the agenda. but that's the soonest, unless
you want to check our other schedules and set it up for the 26th and make sure that's a
light meeting.
Bird: Yeah.
Berg: I meant that's some other options we could do. Right now I do know that we are
noticing things for the 12th and the 19th for things coming off of P&Z.
De Weerd: Okay. So, what is the recommendation there?
Wardle: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: I would -- I would prefer that we move that hearing to the 26th, allow time for
notice and comment in that time.
Bird: I would agree with Council -- or, Madam Mayor, I would agree with Councilman
Wardle.
De Weerd: They have had a year and a half to comment. What are we going to wait
for? I'm sorry, this process has been so lengthy. Do we really want to put it to the
26th? It is your decision, but -- sorry.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I have a question. Is this just a one hearing -- or is this going
to be two or what's the process on --
De Weerd: Well, it is a one hearing, but I think there has been some discussion on one
of the sections in there. Actually, there is probably two sections. One in regards to the
signs and the second one in regard to state highways. Is that a good indicator?
Canning: I believe that's a fair assessment. The Planning and Zoning Commission --
statutorily you're only required to conduct one hearing, if that was the question. The
Planning and Zoning Commission did conduct two hearings -- or not two hearings, but
two weeks -- they took testimony at two different public meetings, so --
De Weerd: Okay.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I guess my preference would be to get this on the docket as
soon as we can. I know we have had several items in the past months that have ~-
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June 21, 2005
Page 6 of 47
would have been cleared up readily had we had this in place and I suspect there is
several more agenda items in the near future -- late future that it would be nice to have
this in place, so it makes decision making a little more clear. So, I would propose that if
we can find it in ourselves to move it at least to the 19th. I believe that's --
De Weerd: Well, the first date you can do it is the 12th. The 19th is your all day long
budget session. So, I, again, will leave that up to you.
Rountree: Well, what are we going to do all night long?
De Weerd: I guess that. Okay. You want it on the 19th, then? Anna, does that work?
Rountree: That's just my opinion. We have got two saying the 26th, so --
Bird: Oh, I can go the 19th.
Donnell: Me, too.
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle?
Wardle: Sure.
Canning: Madam Mayor, it seems -- it would be nice to not have it on the agenda with
other development applications in that respect, so -- I know it's a very long day in those
seats for you all, but that sounds like a good date to me.
De Weerd: Okay. Well, it sounds like, Mr. Berg; we have set the 19th for the Public
Hearing on that.
Berg: Other things might be scheduled already. Madam Mayor, what I'm saying is
when the items come off the P&Z, then, we shoot them to two Council meetings and so
we shot them to the 12th and the 19th from the last meeting last week. So, that's kind
of how we do things to spread them out so it's not all at once to you guys. So, what I'm
saying is right now I can assure you that it's by itself on the 19th.
De Weerd: Okay.
Berg: Okay. Just so you don't shoot me after the long day and you have more than just
one hearing.
De Weerd: Okay. No shooting the city clerk.
Rountree: Is that an option?
2.
Letter from Steven DeMurria:
Meridian City Council
June 21, 2005
Page 7 of 47
De Weerd: Get it the first time. Okay. So, the 19th. The second item is discussion on
the letter that we got from Steven DeMurria.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, as you will recall, there is hot dog
stand in the Rite-Aid parking lot that was approved through a miscellaneous application
for a temporary use. The day after that was approved by Council Mr. DeMurria asked if
he could put up seating and I instructed him that that was not part of the approval. He
did go ahead and put up seating. We sent code enforcement out to tell him that that
had not been a part of the original approval. He came into the Planning and Zoning
Department. I indicated that as time had gone on I felt that his use, although it was in a
temporary structure, was really a permanent use on that site. It was not lasting for six
months or seven months or eight months, he really intended it to be a permanent use
and, therefore, I felt that it required -- to justify the seating or to justify anything beyond
what Council had approval, that it should go through the process that any other
permanent use would go through, which would be a certificate of zoning compliance in
this instance, which would mean in this particular case that there would be parking lot
improvements, there would be, you know, probably putting down some curb to separate
the parking aisles and bringing the parking lot landscaping up to snuff in some areas.
So, it's a significant investment, obviously. In response to that there is a letter that was
sent to you all. He was not happy with that interpretation. He has not filed an appeal.
We were a little iffy as to where to go on the next steps, because a miscellaneous
application has been approved. He felt that he would like to come before you all and
see if that -- if my interpretation wasn't how you all felt he should go, then, he would go
the miscellaneous application route again. Otherwise, I would need to do some sort of
formal determination and have him appeal that to you all. It's just a little awkward,
because he has this existing approval and we weren't sure how to modify it. It's one of
those things that we are really looking forward to the new code addressing it in a more
adequate manner, so --
De Weerd: And that is addressed in the new code?
Canning: Temporary uses are addressed in the new code. As I said a couple of weeks
ago, Mr. OeMurria does not fit under any of those classifications for a temporary use.
The only thing that's temporary about his use is the structure he's using to house it in.
The intended use is a permanent use on that property. It's not like a fireworks stand or
a produce stand or a vendor that shows up on the property at lunchtime and leaves at
the end of the day, it's -- he has leased that space, a specific area. He has moved his
structure on it. It doesn't move off. It's really, in all instances that I can determine, a
permanent use. It's not being operated as a temporary use.
De Weerd: And how did you treat the emissions building over by Arctic Circle?
Canning: We made that one get a Conditional Use Permit for a public, quasi-public,
use.
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June 21, 2005
Page 8 of 47
De Weerd: Well, wouldn't it be more a Conditional Use Permit, then, if he -- when he
brought it before us if it was temporary. He was talking about temporary and the
Council approved it because we did not have an adequate ordinance that dealt with it,
but they only approved it on a temporary nature.
Canning: Correct.
De Weerd: So, if we wants it different -- in fact, as I recall, they put a deadline on it. I
thought. And so it would fall under that. He would have to come back through what
anyone else would have to come back through.
Canning: And in this instance that would be just a certificate of zoning compliance,
because it is a retail use or a restaurant use in a C-C zone, which is an allowed
principally permitted use, so -- but he would need to -- we would treat him as if his cart
were a building, is basically how it would look. I believe the attorney wants to speak
also.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: We passed it, but we didn't pass it to have outdoor seating like that. We didn't tell
him to take up six or eight parking spots and that's -- that's my one big complaint. How
can a building with wheels be permanent.
De Weerd: I'm sure Mr. Nary has all the answers.
Nary: Ma'am Mayor, Members of the Council, certainly I don't have all the answers.
But the -- if you recall, part of that -- in conjunction with that was you had also requested
that we create a vendor ordinance to deal with temporary vendors, solicitors, peddlers,
and the like, and that still is in process, we are still getting comment. We have gotten
comments back from the Planning and Zoning Department and we are still seeking
some comments from some of the other departments to make sure it's comprehensive,
but I mean that particular site, I think -- my recollection was -- and we can go back and
look at the minutes -- is I think the Council set a six month time period for it to be
temporary and, then, the decision would be is it temporary or no longer temporary and I
think Mrs. Canning is correct, that there is certainly nothing about that site that's
temporary, other than the building would be more movable than a pad that has a
permanent structure built on it, but that's about it. I don't think its intended use is
anything -- is anything that's temporary. I think he intends to be there as long as he
makes money, like anybody else. There is issues, I think as Councilmember Bird said,
the concern was that there was some use of parking spaces and the drive aisles and
the like and he's tried to do a little bit to make sure there is at least some safety barrier
around that building to some degree, but there is a tremendous amount of parking on
that site and at least when that initial use is being done it didn't seem to -- it wouldn't
seem to have enough use to impact the parking requirements of that site, but now there
Meridian City Council
June 21, 2005
Page 9 of 47
is -- I think I told all of you today we did have a concern expressed by now the fireworks
stand that's going to be located in that same lot as well and it's fairly large and instead
of being the smaller structures that they have used previously, from what I was told, it's
a large tent. So, that uses up a whole bunch more parking spaces and drive aisles and
Mrs. Canning's been out to look at that to see if that's -- the number of uses on that site.
But that one clearly is a temporary use for the fireworks stand and we do address those
in a different manner. But there is a couple of different factors going on, but the only
part we have been working is trying to get a vendor ordinance in shape, so we can bring
that to you as well. Yeah, because he wouldn't be temporary, he wouldn't fall under that
vendor ordinance, because we don't require licensing of every food operation in the city,
just the ones that are mobile and move and are temporary in nature or there for an
event or something like that. His is -- like I said, it's just not a pad, that's all, so --
De Weerd: Well, he probably needs to be notified that the time frame set by Council is
almost up and staff is going to have to give him clear instructions on what the next steps
are and --
Canning: And, Madam Mayor, what are those clear instructions? Should we treat him
as a permanent use?
De Weerd: He has displayed that he wants to be a permanent use and --
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: -- so I guess he would need to come through for a CUP.
Nary: Well, I think -- I think probably the best direction, if I could, from you and the
Council, since you would be the appellate body that would hear it, is you would simply--
you could simply direct Mrs. Canning to interpret the ordinance as she's empowered to
do and make that decision and provide that information in writing and if he wants to
appeal that to you, then, he could do that, rather than you provide the direction now
without hearing all of the information.
De Weerd: See, you had all the answers. That sounds fine.
Item 7:
Items Moved from Consent Agenda:
De Weerd: Okay. There were no items moved from the Consent Agenda.
Item 8:
FP 05-036 Request for Final Plat approval of 55 single-family residential
building lots and 10 common lots on 14.91 acres in a R-8 zone for Fulfer
Subdivision No.6 by Kevin Howell Construction - north of McMillan
Road and west of Linder Road:
De Weerd: Items 8, 9 and 10 all final plats. Mrs. Canning, were there any issues with
any of these items?
Meridian City Council
June 21, 2005
Page 10 of 47
Canning: Yes, Madam Mayor, eight and nine.
De Weerd: Okay. I will go ahead and take staff comments on Item 8, FP 05-036.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of Council, this is Fulfer Subdivision No.6, originally
platted as Kelly Creek and it's north of McMillan, west of Linder. It proposes 55 single
family residential and ten common lots on 14.91 acres in the R-8 zone and it's a gross
density of 3.69 units per acre and a net residential density of 4.9. You will notice the
two blue dots on the final plat. On the -- one of them, Lot 19, doesn't meet lot frontage
requirements and we don't have a statement from the applicant indicating that they are
in agreement with that. Originally, we had asked them about both lots. We went back
and looked at the previous preliminary plat approval and did determine that one of the
lots was okay, but Lot No. 19 needs to be at least 40 feet. It was 42 feet as depicted on
the original preliminary plat, so we need to have at least 40 feet, which is what we allow
on cul-de-sacs and knuckles such as this. A cord measurement of 40 feet. And that's
all of staffs presentation. I'm not sure that Mr. Fluke is here.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any questions for staff at this time?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Is the applicant or a representative here?
Canning: Madam Mayor, Ms. Allen did call Mr. Fluke and tell him that we needed to
either have a letter stating that he would be -- that he was in agreement with the
conditions of approval or that he be at tonight's hearing. She left that message on the
phone. She was not able to talk to him.
De Weerd: Okay. What is your direction?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would move that we continue this -- table this to -- FP 05-036 to June 28th, 2005.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. The motion is to table this until June 28th. Does it matter if it's tabled
or continued? Okay. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 9:
FP 05-035 Request for Final Plat approval of 44 single-family residential
building lots and 1 common lot on 10.39 acres in a R-8 zone for Fulfer
Meridian City Council
June 21, 2005
Page 11 of 47
Subdivision No.7 by Kevin Howell Construction - north of West McMillan
Road and east of North Ten Mile Road:
De Weerd: Item 9 is FP 05-035.
Canning: Madam Mayor, this is the same applicant. He is not here.
De Weerd: Okay.
Bird: Same problem? Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we continue FP 05-035 until June 28th, 2005.
Donnell: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. The motion is to table No.9 to June 28th. All those in favor say
aye. Okay. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 10:
FP 05-037 Request for Final Plat of 12 single family residential building
lots and 3 common area lots on 4.56 acres in a R-4 zone for Klamath
Basin Subdivision by Randy and Linnea Worden - 4625 West Ustick
Road:
De Weerd: Item 10 is FP 05-037. Anna.
Canning: Madam Mayor, we do have a letter stating the applicant is in agreement with
the conditions of approval.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, do I have a motion?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move that we approve Item No. 10 FP 05-037.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. The motion is to approve Item 10. Mr. Berg, will you call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Donnell, yea.
Meridian City Council
June 21, 2005
Page 12 of 47
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 11:
TE 05-005 Request for approval of a one-year Time Extension to record
the final plat for Buich Subdivision (aka Cherry Lane Office Park) by
Pinnacle Engineers, Inc. - north of West Cherry Lane and west of North
Linder Road:
De Weerd: Okay. Item 11 is TE 05-005. Staff comments.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is Buich Subdivision. It's not on
here. Sorry. It's located north of Cherry Lane. The preliminary plat was approved on
July 6 of '05. They have had to remove one of their lots to make it more marketable and
they are asking for a time extension to accommodate those changes.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any questions?
Donnell: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Donnell.
Donnell: Anna, did you say '05? July of '05?
Canning: Oh, yes, I did, but I meant '04.
Donnell: Okaydoke. No questions.
De Weerd: Okay. Any comment by the applicant? Is the applicant here? Okay.
Council?
Donnell: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Donnell.
Donnell: I'd like to make a motion to approve Item No. 11, a temporary time extension
for -- I guess it's not very temporary -- a year time extension for the final plat for Buich
Subdivision.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. The motion is to approve the request for a time extension. Mr. Berg,
will you call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Donnell, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Meridian City Council
June 21, 2005
Page 13 of 47
Item 12:
Public Hearing: Update on Buildina. Electrical. Fire Prevention and
Mechanical and Gas Code Amendments:
De Weerd: Okay. Item 12 is a Public Hearing on the update on the building, electrical,
fire prevention, chemical and gas code amendments. I will open this Public Hearing
with staff comments. We will start with Bruce. Bruce, that's you.
Freckleton: Sorry. Too much shuffling. Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the
Council. We are before you tonight to introduce the new international codes that we are
seeking approval of. Specifically, the 2003 International Building Code, the 2003
International Residential Code, parts one through six, the 2003 International Energy
Conservation Code. The '03 International Mechanical Code and Fuel Gas Code. And
the 2003 International Fire Code. We -- these are kind of a long time in coming to you,
but we are finally here. We -- on the 8th of June we put out a letter to the BCA of
Southwest Idaho, the Snake River Valley BCA, which was the Nampa area, the Ada
County Association of Realtors, the Association of General Contractor -- Contractors of
Idaho, the Idaho Fire Protection Forum. That letter, basically, just stated that -- what
our intentions were of bringing the codes before you for adoption, stated the date of the
hearing, and we asked for any discussion or comments to the codes prior to tonight's
meeting. We also posted our proposed ordinance on our city website for -- for view of
anyone who was interested in taking a look at those. Deputy Chief Silva and myself
met with the BCA board, the Builders Council, on the 14th, last Thursday, to discuss our
proposal. Really, there were no surprise questions. BCA is not in favor of our proposal
as -- as we have written it. We have, basically, one big issue that is hanging over us
and Deputy Chief Silva has a short presentation that he would like to play for you and,
then, we will stand for any questions.
De Weerd: Okay. Bruce, I guess before you move into the part of the International
Code that it has some contingent to it, the other communities in the area have all
adopted these codes?
Freckleton: That will be part of this presentation, too. Nampa and Caldwell have
adopted it. Boise city has not. They have adopted the code --
De Weerd: They have adopted the code--
Freckleton: Excuse me. That's correct.
De Weerd: -- with the exception of this one --
Freckleton: That's correct.
De Weerd: And as I understand it from the workshop I attended last week is until we
adopt these codes we, essentially, don't have codes. When the state updates their
codes, it makes ours in effective until we adopt the states. So, this is a timely issue; is
that correct? Okay. Thank you.
Meridian City Council
June 21, 2005
Page 14 of 47
Anderson: Madam Mayor and Council, I guess I get the pleasure of kicking this off. I
hope you enjoy the first day of summer and the warm heat, because we are going to
turn up the heat a little more on you and bring something a little bit controversial to you
for approval. What we are asking is that the city amend their code to adopt the latest
version of the family of codes, which consist of the building code, fire code, mechanical
code, et cetera, and these codes typically run on a three-year cycle. So, the version
that we have been working off of was the 2000 version of the International Codes. We
are asking you tonight to adopt the 2003 version of those codes and there is a little bit of
lag time by the time those get drafted, approved by the legislature, and, then, get
adopted by the local municipalities. The thing that's a little bit controversial, I guess,
about the family of codes is that due to some heavy lobbying by some special interest
groups when the legislature in this last session adopted the building -- or the fire code,
they actually wrote an exemption in there -- the code actually requires the sprinkling of
three and four unit dwellings and in Idaho's adoption of the code, they created this
exemption. So, three-plexes and four-plexes are not required to have a sprinkler
system in those. And sprinkler systems -- I guess in my mind are kind of the next
generation, if you will, of protection. I think America has pretty much universally
adopted and come to the understanding that smoke detectors in your home are a great
thing and they save a lot of lives. Sprinkler systems are the next generation of a great
thing that saves a lot of lives. They have been used for a lot of years in commercial
structures, they are used in hotels, motels, multi-family units, and with the latest version
of the code it now requires those to be installed in three and four unit dwellings. For
whatever reason Idaho's legislature did not adopt the code that way. So, as each
municipality adopts the codes, you are allowed to be more restrictive, you can't be less
restrictive and a number of cities across the state of Idaho have adopted and have
chosen to adopt the code with the three and four unit requirement for sprinkler systems.
So, what I'd like to do now is turn this presentation over to Deputy Chief Silva, in charge
of fire prevention, and have him run through a quick presentation of why we would like
you to adopt these codes without the exemption that the state had.
Silva: Thank you. Mayor, Members of the Council, what we would like to do is to, first
and foremost why sprinklers are like the equivalent of having a firefighter immediately in
the room should a fire occur within that room and most -- it's most important to think
about this as a life safety device. It provides initial means of escape for the occupants
of the room or the building. What we are trying to do in Meridian is to stretch precious
resources with only nine firefighters on duty, compared to national fire protection
standard, which requires a minimum of 14 firefighters on duty to respond on an initial
response in the event of a structure fire. Hopefully, the benefits to the sprinklers, in
addition to providing -- saving lives and protecting property, is that we will deal with
smaller, less intense fires, preservation of units for an expanded role in the EMS and to
reduce potential fire hazards to the firefighters who are responding to the call. In a
multi-family dwelling, careless acts of tenants can jeopardize the uninsured property of
other tenants and that's a key thing, because a lot of these folks who live in multi-family
dwellings do not have homeowners insurance -- excuse me, renter's insurance and it
can jeopardize their only contents, their only property that they have -- only personal
Meridian City Council
June 21,2005
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property that they have. A recent fire in Nampa illustrates the effectiveness of how fire
sprinklers can minimize the damage and prevent the room becoming totally involved. In
this case the occupant was in bed at the time that the fire occurred. She had placed a --
like a hundred watt light bulb in this light fixture right to the right of the bed and when the
fire occurred what alerted her to a fire in her room was the fact that the sprinkler went
off and started to protect her and she was able to stay in the building that night, not in
this particular unit, but the other residents in the building were unaffected by the fire that
occurred that evening. These systems are very cost effective and inexpensive to install.
They utilize a poly pipe type of material to install, which is lighter, doesn't have any
negative effects on the engineering of the truss systems, it does not require sprinklers to
be installed in attics, under floors, installed in bathroom or in storage areas or balconies.
And there are other trade-offs for equipping the building with a fire sprinkler system.
Typically fire sprinklers are -- cost anywhere between $1.75 to two dollars a square foot
and I see some members of the fire sprinkler community here this evening that will
attest to that fact. Typically, once the building is built and the owner will get anywhere
between a ten and fifteen premium reduction on insurance costs, which over time
reduce the operating costs of a building in the complex. Buildings that have been put
out on -- that are finished out -- Sagecrest had 48 buildings and approximately six
buildings in the foothills apartments would have been affected by this -- this proposal.
It's noteworthy that staff has done plan review on initial conceptual site plans of 116
four-plex buildings, 116 four-plex buildings have entered the pipeline, not -- we have not
initiated any construction, any foundation work, but we have a significant number of
four-plexes coming down the development. Other communities that have adopted the
code in its entirety without the exemption -- or the exemption for three and four unit
buildings or dwelling units, Caldwell, Nampa, Pocatello, Lewiston, Post Falls -- and it's
noteworthy that McCall took action to adopt it without the exemption after experiencing
a four million dollar fire in three buildings that were under construction that were four-
plexes. They were at a stage in the construction that would have -- at that point the
sprinkler would have been activated and you would have had only a single room
involved, instead of three buildings. So, they had a four million dollar loss there. And
Rexburg and Orofino. So, we appreciate your support on the consideration of this
issue. We know it will cause some -- provide input from BCA and some other members
of our community and we hope you can support it. Chief, did you have some
concluding remarks?
Anderson: At this point, Mayor, we'd like to open it up for -- we'd stand for questions.
De Weerd: Okay. Just for the record, I would also like to note that we do have two
written comments in front of us, that is by Thomas Young with Precision Pumping
Systems, who is urging the adoption of the electrical code, and as well as from Jim
Johnson regarding insurance credits for the sprinkler systems. So, I just wanted to note
that for the public record. Okay. I will go ahead and open up for public testimony. Is
there anyone who would like to provide --
Donnell: Questions?
Meridian City Council
June 21, 2005
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De Weerd: Mrs. Donnell.
Donnell: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Deputy Chief Silva, tell me why the state did not
adopt that portion into the fire code, the state fire code.
De Weerd: I think Chief Anderson is -- has more intimate knowledge.
Donnell: Chief Anderson.
Anderson: Thank you. Councilwoman Donnell, I guess that's a tough -- tough answer
and a tough question, but it's my belief, because I attended some of the committee
hearings and testified on this myself, that there was a particular legislator who carried
this piece of legislation, who I believe had a conflict of interest, who builds a lot of three
and four-plex units and, consequently, he was the one carrying the piece of legislation
and I believe that he purposely didn't want this enacted in its entirety, because it may
benefit him and that's a personal opinion and I guess subject to debate, but that's what I
believe happened in this particular case.
Donnell: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Donnell.
Donnell: Would that legislator happen to be in the eastern part of our state?
Anderson: Yes, he would be.
Donnell: Thank you.
De Weerd: Does his name begin with -- no. Council, are there any further questions?
Wanting to put Chief Anderson on the spot. Okay. I will open it up for public comment.
Is there anyone who would like to provide testimony on this application? Please come
and step up to the podium. And if you will, please, state your name and address for the
record.
Ross: Okay. I'm Viola Ross. I live at the Traymore apartments and we have sprinklers
in every apartment and it really gives you a good safe feeling and there is a lot of
seniors there and we can go to bed at night and sleep without thinking it's going to catch
on fire for us. So, I very much think that would be very important.
De Weerd: Well, thank you. Okay. Sir. If you will state your name and address for the
record.
Whitney: Good evening, Madam Mayor and Members of the Council. My name is Ron
Whitney, I'm here tonight representing the Building Contractor's Association of
Southwest Idaho. I'm primarily a messenger. We do appreciate the fact that the fire
chief and Bruce, you know, came to our council meeting on Tuesday the 14th.
Mcridian City Council
June21,2005
Page 17 of 47
Unfortunately, we weren't prepared to get into a lengthy discussion as far as pros and
cons at that time and we kind of asked if we could have some time to put together a
task force to get together with them again and further discuss the details. Our primary
concern is that we haven't seen any statistics yet that really indicate to us that there is a
-- that statistically there has been a history of fires that would indicate in three and four-
plexes that it is a big a problem as it's being made out to be and whether the cost
effectiveness is really there. As you're aware this recently went to the city of Boise.
Unfortunately, I wasn't a part of that series of meetings and events, so I don't have all
the information that a couple of other individuals do, but we would like to be able to get
together further with the building department and the fire department to discuss pros
and cons of the issue and I think that's our only -- as far as what you are adopting here,
as far as the codes go, this, obviously, is the primary issue that we are concerned
about. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Any questions, Council?
Wardle: Madam Mayor. Sir, if I could -- you have indicated that you would like some
additional time as an association. Certainly, this is an issue that's important for the city
as far as time line. Did your organization have a time line in mind that would -- the city
could consider?
Whitney: I guess my question would be is this actually going to be heard and possibly
approved tonight or is there another hearing? I think Bruce indicated there is one more
hearing before this is actually adopted.
De Weerd: I do understand that your leadership is up in Coeur d'Alene at the IACI
conference and they did want to have an opportunity to comment. So, it was
anticipated to have action from Council at the earliest possible date, with -- I guess
, because of their absence that perhaps next week would be the earliest. But we are
operating right now without codes and so we do need a timely discussion on that.
Whitney: Okay. Well, I'm sure we could make arrangements to get together, whether
even later this week or the first part of next week.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Whitney: Thank you.
Neal: Madam Mayor and City Council, I kind of brought this along --
De Weerd: If you will, please, state your name and address first.
Neal: John Neal, Simplex Grinnell district general manager. My address is 2254 East
Redwick in Meridian.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Meridian City Council
June 21, 2005
Page 18 of47
Neal: I just brought, because whenever we talk about sprinklers --
Rountree: Is that part of your testimony?
Neal: I do have pictures, by the way. But sometimes I just like people to see a little bit
what they are looking at. Madam Mayor and City Council Members, my name is John
Neal, I'm the district general manager for Simplex Grinnell. Simplex Grinnell provides
fire protection services and is part of Tyco International. Our company's founder
Frederick Grinnell was -- formulated and founded fire sprinkler systems in the 1850s, so
our company has a little bit of background in this. Tonight I'm here to ask the City
Council members to adopt International Building Code 2003 in its entirety, including the
requirements fire sprinkler systems and R designated occupancies as outlined in IBC
2003. I do not represent myself as an expert in statistics, a lobbyist for the fire sprinkler
industry, or even a fair, un-opinionated party. I'm a person who has worked in the fire
protection industry for close to 25 years and understands the process of both installing
residential and commercial fire sprinkler systems. I am proud to be part of an industry
that is constantly involved with the sole purpose of providing systems and equipment
that save lives and property. I have personally replaced fire sprinkler heads in buildings
after a fire, still standing with no lose of life and very limited water damage. These
incidents did not grab any headlines, no heroes, just simple devices that put the flames
out quickly and safe property and lives. I was always more concerned about going back
home at 2:00 a.m. and going back to bed. In addition, I have been both a fire systems
inspector and an inspection manager in a major city for over 15 years. I have
personally inspected thousands of sprinkler heads and systems -- hundred of systems
and have an excellent understanding of maintaining and servicing residential and
commercial fire systems. Why are we here tonight and how will we move forward?
From my perspective the decision is elementary. Fire sprinklers save lives and
property, separate or together with fire alarms. However, the fire sprinkler systems stop
or suppresses fire. Many elderly or children may not be able to respond to fire alarm
only. Adopting full international business codes -- building codes, excuse me, including
group or resident occupancies is part of the evolving fire protection of citizens,
homeowners, and building owners are realizing throughout the United States, as cost
per city services, building replacement, water resources, and type of materials warrant
and mandate it. Recognized leaders in the industry, insurance, authorities having
jurisdictions have met under many organizations, like National Fire Protection
Association, National Fire Sprinkler Association, International Building Codes -- they
have done their research, formed committees, reviewed and kept statistics and
produced this tool we call the International Building Code. Excuse me. The next logical
step is to adopt it in its entirety. As a sub note quickly, just in June, under 13-D, which
is single dwelling homes, they just adopted it throughout the U.S. in 2006 that they will
start asking the individual homes to start being sprinkled. So, I want to throw this
perspective to some of the items we are talking about. It isn't anything new, we have
been doing it for some time, it's just a matter of moving into three and four-plex
buildings. It always seems evolution of fire protection has to overcome initial
acceptance, implementation, and regulations to a point where it's commonplace and
Meridian City Council
June 21, 2005
Page 19 of47
accepted as best practices. In 1871 the great fire in Chicago took place and 2.7 square
miles of homes and businesses were destroyed in the entire commercial district. The
destruction included at total of 17,450 buildings. Relief funds poured in from 29 foreign
countries. Even President Ulysses Grant sent a thousand dollars of his own money.
Excuse me. From this tragedy and devastation buildings and fire protection changed.
The sprinkler system had only been developed seven years later, so I give that as a
reference in how far we have come. The difficulty here tonight is not as ominous as fire
-- the Chicago fire and the causes and prevention, because we have the tools to do so.
Our decisions tonight are acknowledging some cost, potential political capital, review
information, doing everything reasonably we can to protect Meridian citizens and
property as we are able. Children and the elderly statistically die more in fires. Certain
type of properties have more risk due to socio-economic variables. As citizens we try to
protect these people and not use cost associated with the only means test. It was not
long ago there was a resistance to fire alarm systems being required in homes and
multi-dwellings. I suspect everybody goes to sleep tonight in their house with some kind
of smoke detector. I'll skip some of the statistics, but I will be glad to show this later.
Finally, a very good article came out on fire department response times as reported by
the Boston Globe. The report titled a majority of fire departments nationwide failed to
meet response time standards. I think we alluded to it. A lot of this isn't just protecting
the structures, but it's the ability of the fire department to get there in a fast manner,
while the building materials now tend to ignite and there are good practices the building
industry has done to compartmentalize, but the reality is fire sprinklers are ready to go
24 hours a day at a reasonable cost. I brought this sprinkler pipe along, because
sometimes people get misconceptions of big steel pipe in attics and we do have big
commercial systems, but in the residential systems, as you can see, they are very
attractive. Of course, in our business it's not going to be very handsome, but this one
here on the left, the plate there, the heads inside you can't even see it, it would drop
down, so I just brought that as kind of an example and I have a brochure here if any of
the members would like that. So, finally, I urge Meridian City Council to fully adopt the
IBC 2000 as recommended by the city fire department and I'll leave it with -- go to Las
Vegas. It's hard to believe in 1980 the MGM burned and there had been legislation out
there and because of that most of the buildings are sprinkled throughout Vegas. It's a
very common item. So, I hope that the city takes those kind of things in mind and is
proactive and votes to adopt it.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions?
Bird: I do have one, Madam Mayor. Do you have a statistic on how many people
actually die from the fire, as to the smoke? And what kind of heat do you have to have
to get that sprinkler off? And smoke will not set it off, unless it's a -- okay.
Neal: On the death statistics or the things you just asked for, I have a binder full and
depending on who you ask there is a lot of statistics and they tend to blame the
residential and commercial all these together. I could provide that, but there may be
people better for that. I could speak more to -- in part of my notes -- I'm sorry I had to
go quick, but I wanted to be, you know, fast here, is we hate Hollywood when they show
Meridian City Council
June 21, 2005
Page 20 of47
all these heads going off. It's doesn't work that way. These heads are designed to go
off at pre-set temperatures. If I may -. this little bulb right here, because it's red I know
it's 155 degrees. I also know because it's thin it's a quick response, meaning it will go
fast. Smoke does not set these off. Each head goes individually. The majority of
heads that have gone off throughout the U.S. in the hundreds that they kept tracking
this, one to two heads, as that picture showed, it's a very effective process. It's
lightweight, so the industry had done a lot to really get to the point where they can install
these in a cost-efficient manner. Two dollars is probably a pretty good thing and
because people are concerned about esthetics in houses, that is what that's designed to
do, so I mean they have worked very hard to make these -- you don't even notice they
are there and the maintenance on them is no different than having water on your house.
There are some things you have to do, but it's basically water to the head and the head
activates and puts out the fire and you turn it off, sop it up, and there you go.
Bird: Thank you very much.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay.
Bettencourt: Mayor, City Council, my name is Brad Bettencourt. I live at 7774
Snohomish, Boise. I was here to talk to answer your questions more thorough. I spoke
to UL, which is one of the listing agencies of sprinkler heads and got some information
from them. Residential heads are truly designed for life safety. They have to wet within
28 inches down from the ceiling. Several can be from eight to ten feet away from the
wall. So, even at eight, nine, ten feet from the wall it's got to be within 28 inches from
the ceiling. They are trying to get the walls wet. Their intent is to keep the
temperatures down, the gases down that kill people, the smoke, it's all geared towards
keeping heat and temperatures, everything down. One of the tests they have meet is at
five foot three, which is eye level, the temperature can never get above 200-0degrees.
At five foot three it can never exceed 130 degrees for more than two minutes. So, even
little people like me, that's eye level. One hundred thirty degrees, it can't be that for
more than two minutes. So, that means the heads are activated and never be above
200. The water, the sprinkler goes off, activates, cools everything down quickly. They
are designed to get people out early. At three inches below the ceiling it can never
exceed 600 degrees. Again, these are all tests that if that head fails either one of these,
it doesn't get a residential listing. They put a 500-degree thermal couple imbedded in
the ceiling of the room when they do the test. It's set at 500 degrees. It can never go
off. And this is back to, I think, most residential homes are put out -- fires are put out
with one head. Commercial homes -- or commercial buildings are more like two or
three heads, but that's the difference between a commercial head and a residential
head. Commercial heads, they just worry about wetting the wall, most of them, seven
and a half feet from the wall for the standard head. Again, it's a 155 quick response or -
- yeah, sprinklers in here, be light hazard. But they are not worried about wetting on the
wall, they are worried about it's an occupied building all the time, people can get out in a
residence. It's about life safety. The sprinkler heads are designed specifically for that.
Statistics. I get a little frustrated with statistics, because I'm sure we have all heard of,
you know, why do we have so many dead people before the city decides to put a traffic
Meridian City Council
June 21,2005
Page210f47
light somewhere or change it from a two way stop to a four way stop. These people, as
John said, have done all the research. These people just don't wake up one morning
who write these codes and say, gosh, I think I'm going to go put this into a code today.
They do the research. I'm sure they got grilled way harder that any of you guys have or
even the city of Boise or Council. They feel they are needed. If there is cost issues,
maybe the city should think about not worrying about making the homeowners do some
of the beauty of the property. Go to single pane windows. Get rid of some of your
insulation requirements. That seems to be everybody's big concern when we went
through this in Boise was cost impact. Your own Chief Silva said a buck 75 to 2.50, I
think that's pretty much where it is. I hope you consider this. I would ask that if you do
vote on anything today, because I know you're on a time crunch, I feel it would be more
prudent to error on the side of caution and adopt it in its entirety and, then, go back and
let us and the building officials argue it out. When the city of Boise did that, they did it
the other way around. It went to their code review people and, then, a vote of nine to
one they said it should be voted in its entirety. The City Council did not vote that way,
chose to leave it out.
De Weerd: Sir, I'm sorry, your three minutes are up.
Bettencourt: Okay. I'm sorry.
De Weerd: But, Council, do you have any questions?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Mr. Bettencourt, by stature I don't believe you and I would see eye to eye,
but -- and you speak with some authority. Could you tell me your background, just so I
can be comfortable with what you tell me?
Bettencourt: I have been -- I have been in the fire sprinkler industry for about 21 years.
Actually started in Phoenix as a designer and back, then, I was there when Scottsdale
first voted in their residential and they do have a 15 year study out now that talks about
how that's worked well. They have had several trade-offs to do that when they went
and put it and they were under a lot of heat when they did that, no pun intended.
De Weerd: Yeah. But the heat would escape because our energy code just went to
heck with your suggestion.
Bettencourt: Well, you know, if we are just worried about money, I'd rather see it go for
life safety than some of the other things.
De Weerd: Than utilizing our energy code, uh?
Bettencourt: Just giving an example.
Meridian City Council
June 21, 2005
Page 22 of 47
De Weerd: Let's come up with a different one.
Bettencourt: Adopt it in its entirety and you can get it all. You get yours and everyone
else gets theirs.
De Weerd: Okay. Any further questions?
Rountree: Thank you.
Bird: I'll make a statement. Put single pane and take your insulation out and, then, you
won't have to worry about fire sprinklers either, because the water will be frozen.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you, sir.
Patrick: Madam Mayor, Ladies and Gentlemen of the Council, I'm Greg Patrick. I live at
3063 South Canonarro in Boise. I'm a standing member and co-founder of the Idaho
Fire Protection Forum. I'm a member of the National Fire Protection Association and
the American Fire Sprinkler Association. Been in the fire sprinkler industry for over 21
years. In fact, I come from a very similar background as Mr. Bettencourt does. He and
I worked together in the Scottsdale area, which I think most people recognize as an
area of the country that has been very instrumental in residential fire sprinklers. They
have very strict codes down there and because of the work they have done there, they
had done great things for that community, in essence, of costs to the community in
savings that they have been able to bring to that community for the fire department, fire
services, other city administration. I believe that through the testimony that you're going
to hear from both sides of this argument, that you're probably going to hear some
fallacies and some of the fallacies that have I heard thus far in other communities where
this issue has come up is that fire sprinklers are not affordable. I think you have seen
tonight that they are very affordable, they are not five or six dollars a square foot, as
some might lead you to believe. I think that $1.75 to 2.50 that Chief Silva spoke about
is a good figure. Fire sprinklers are not proven to save lives more than say smoke
detectors. I have actually got some statistics to help answer your questions on that.
May not be sufficient water to operate fire sprinklers in some areas of your community.
That's certainly one we have heard. And that if you do adopt the full measure of the
code, that builders will just go elsewhere and build and they won't build in your
community. I think these are all fallacies. I think they are very attractive. You saw the
example that Mr. Neal brought. Fire sprinklers control and extinguish fires and keep
deadly gases to a minimum, so not only are fire-related injuries kept down, but also
smoke-related injuries. Residential sprinklers use minimal flows, many 20 gallons a
minute or less. Fire departments, when they come to fight fires that are a full on fire,
are going to flow 500 to 1,500 gallons a minute. And I think quality builders will
recognize the value of fire sprinklers in their facilities. There was a question asked
about fire versus smoke-related injuries. I have got some statistics that were taken from
a study in Prince Georges County. They are another community that's very pro fire
sprinkler. From 1990 to 1993 they had statistics that were different fires that occurred in
Meridian City Council
June 21, 2005
Page 23 of 47
non-sprinkled buildings and of the injuries sustained they were pretty much equal,
smoke and burn related. There were, actually, 46 different injuries reported. Almost
four million dollars worth of damage occurred in those facilities. In the study from 1998
to 1999, in fully sprinkled facilities, of all the injuries reported they were all minor burns.
No smoke-related injuries in any of those instances. And the dollar value was
considerably less than those that were reported in non-sprinkled facilities. So, I come
here tonight to urge you to, please, adopt the full version of the 2003 International
Codes. The code writers had great insight when they put these codes together and, like
Mr. Bettencourt said, they didn't just wake up and decide to put these in, they gave a lot
of thought and detail into those decisions. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Mr. Patrick, you mentioned you had some statistics on life saving aspects of
sprinklers. Would you provide that to the Council in the form of testimony?
Patrick: Well, some of the statistics I did provide were from the Prince Georges county
information and I could read on. There is pages that look like -- like this.
Rountree: Please don't, but if you would provide that information --
Patrick: I would be happy to provide copies of that to the Council for future
consideration.
Rountree: Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Wardle: Madam Mayor, just to ask about the information you provide about Prince
Georges county, were those sprinkled incidences residential or commercial or a
combination?
Patrick: The incidences that are in this particular study are all residential. They are
going to be a mixture of single family and multi-family dwellings and they actually do
break it down into multi-family, motel, townhouse, single-family. It's a very good
statistical study.
Wardle: Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Patrick: Thank you.
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June 21, 2005
Page 24 of 47
Brady: Madam Mayor and Council Members, my name is Bob Brady. I live at 1604
West Orchard Street, No. 701, in Nampa. I'm a registered fire engineer in the state of
Idaho and as a registered engineer I'm obligated to protect the health and safety of the
public, as opposed to any kind of association with builders, contractors, suppliers, or
any other organizations of that type. Over the past week I downloaded some
information from the National Fire Protection Association and discovered something
very -- what I feel is very interesting. In those statistics from 1989 to 1999 I found that
single family homes had a risk of death and injury from fire something like this,
commercial buildings and large apartment buildings something like this, and three, four,
five, six, seven, eight unit buildings something like this. And based on that, I feel that
adoption of the complete code for the 2003 International Fire Code is something that's
important. If you have any questions, I would be happy to answer them.
De Weerd: Well, sir, I guess you're from Nampa and they have adopted this portion into
their code. Could you tell me -- were you at that Public Hearing?
Brady: I was not.
De Weerd: Okay. I will ask our chief. He can enlighten us at some point.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Mr. Brady, we record and transcribe the testimony. If, for the record, you
could explain what something like this and this is, so we can have it in context.
Brady: From the standpoint of the risk of fire, this point, based on the statistics of death
and injury from fire and this point and the point for three, four, five, six-plex kinds of
apartments, is approximately 30 percent higher than the other point. From an absolute
standpoint on a percentage basis, you might say, the risk is, you know, one at these
points and 1.3 at that point, if that makes any sense.
Rountree: It helps. Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Any further questions? Thank you. Well, speaking of Nampa.
Smith: Hi.
De Weerd: Hi.
Smith: Madam Mayor, how are you? City Council Members, legal council, and staff
members of your fine city. I'm here -- my name is Bob Smith, I live at 2623 Toma Court
in Nampa and I'd prefer to be on your side, to be honest. It's a lot easier. And I am
Meridian City Council
June 21, 2005
Page 25 of 47
here, in spite of the fact that Chief Ron Anderson is here in attendance and after he
ditched our city and came to your fine city.
De Weerd: That's Meridian's fire chief.
Smith: Meridian's fire chief. No. You hired a great person and I have a great deal of
respect for him and you did a great job by hiring him.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Smith: I am here to lend support for the Meridian fire department's request to adopt the
IBC code. And I'm here, again, in spite of the fact that Ron Anderson is here. I mean
he has not talked to me about this and we have not had a conversation about my
attending. So, hopefully, he's a little bit surprised. And I am here to discuss this
building code from two different aspects. I'm on the City Council in Nampa and I'm also
an owner of an insurance agency, a local one. And from an insurance standpoint, I
think this code is very very important. You have two different factors from insurance.
You have the buildings owners, whose primary concern should be their premiums and,
then, you also have the renters of the three and four-plexes and their concern should be
their safety and their personal property safety. So, it's a personal safety. There is many
factors that go in to determine premiums for the building owners. You have your
building materials, protection class, prior losses. et cetera. And you also have credits
that can be applied to the base premium and those can be based on a lot of things.
Higher deductibles. Smoke detectors. Smoke detectors, by the way, you can get
between a two and five percent credit on your premiums. Security systems. You can
get up to a seven percent. And one quoting -- these are from some of the companies
that I represent, this is not a universal standard, it's -- different companies have different
percentages. Sprinkler systems. You can get up to a 15 percent credit on your
insurance premiums by installing sprinkler systems. And I actually did pull some
scenarios from different customers we have and found that they are about 15 percent.
And there is reasons for that -- that great of a discount for the fire sprinklers, as
opposed to smoke detectors and so forth, and it's because it saves property and it
saves lives and I think that is a proven fact. As an insurance agent, I hate to say it, but
we don't always look forward to those credits and the lower premiums, because, of
course, it hurts our pocket book. But it does protect lives and it provides a mechanism,
if you will, to reduce property loss. They do reduce the overall cost of repair when there
is a fire. From a water standpoint and a smoke standpoint, compared with fire, the fire
creates a lot more damage or greater damage than what a water or smoke loss would.
Basically, that's going to protect the insurance owners and this is as purchasers. The
lower -- the less amounts of claims that are out there, the lower our premiums,
hopefully, are. It doesn't always apply, but it should. I'd like to switch hats a little bit and
just from a city council perspective, and maybe from my own personal perspective, not
the city council of Nampa. When this came before us, I can tell you it's a very difficult
decision. We had people from both sides approaching us. We had the contractors who
weren't completely in favor of it. There was some that were. They understood the
benefits and the reasons why sprinkler systems needed to be installed. But there were
Meridian City Council
June 21, 2005
Page 26 of 47
some that didn't want to absorb the cost, if you will. We also heard from engineers and
some of their concerns.
De Weerd: Sir, I'm sorry, you will have to summarize.
Smith: Okay. We are used to five, so -- sorry. The fire department did bring out a lot of
different aspects of this and why it was important to have these and one of them was
statistics -- not statistics, but if you do have a fire in a building, the opportunity for
somebody to evacuate is a lot greater if you have a fire protection system, as opposed
to just smoke detectors. And I did consider the life safety issues as the overriding factor
when I was looking at this and judging whether to adopt these IBC codes or not. And I
appreciate the comments by the BCA regarding the -- wanting statistics on the amount
of lives that this can actually save and impact.
De Weerd: Did you think I was kidding?
Smith: No. Sorry. One more thing, the importance of fire safety. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Maybe they can prompt some more time by questions.
Council, do you have any questions?
Bird: I don't.
Smith: Thank you very much.
De Weerd: Thank you, councilman. And I think that Ron was in charge of the beeper,
so -- is there any further testimony? Okay. Council, it has been requested to continue
this at -- and certainly that's up to you. Oh, Daunt, do you have any comment? Would
you, please, provide your wisdom.
Whitman: Mayor and Council, Daunt Whitman, 8124 West Blackberry Court in Boise.
I'm your building official and I'm speaking in favor of adoption of the code and I guess
very brief comment being that the codes are written every three -- rewritten every three
years, amended every three years, and they do go through a long process to come to
code changes. It is a -- it's a long, arduous task for them to make a major change like
this and they don't do it lightly and in the same instance the building codes, fire codes,
electrical and mechanical, are all written at minimum standards and personally I guess I
have a hard time dealing with the concept that we would want to be going below a
minimum standard and the fact that the City of Meridian fire department has a very lean,
mean crew, they don't have lots of people standing around with nothing to do, if we
could add fire sprinklers stepping up and doing some of the work for them before they
got there, it would be very beneficial and I think -- I would agree that it is very possible
there is some increased costs to build these buildings, but I think it's putting the cost to
the community where it belongs. It's going to -- these three and four-plex buildings are
built to be used as income properties, typically. Those people deriving that income from
that will absorb that cost, rather than extending the cost to the entire community that are
Meridian City Council
June 21, 2005
Page 27 of 47
having to pay the firefighters who go out and deal with those fires. So, I think in our
building climate I don't think we need to be concerned with builders going elsewhere.
There is some of them I'd like to go elsewhere. They won't. Anyway, that's alii have to
say.
De Weerd: That was on the public record.
Whitman: Yes.
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Madam Mayor. Daunt, not to forget, however, this hearing is about the
building, electrical, mechanical, and gas code amendments as well. Have you heard or
are you aware of any other issues with those other aspects of the code and do your
comments in favor of code adoption go to those elements as well?
Whitman: Yes, they do. I do feel that, you know, in trying to make major amendments
we are trying to reinvent the wheel. I think just -- I don't know that it's time well spent.
De Weerd: Council, any other questions for our building official? Okay. Thank you,
Daunt.
Whitman: Thank you.
Freckleton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Freckleton: While I appreciate Daunt's comments. I was, actually, pointing to the lady
that was behind him. I believe she had some comments.
De Weerd: I couldn't tell who you were referring to, it was just like -- I wasn't into sign
language.
Bunch: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I am Nancy Ann Bunch. I'm a member
of the community. I live at 2870 North Quarrystone Way. I would strongly urge you to
adopt the proposed code in its entirety and require sprinkler systems for the three and
four unit dwellings. I personally have no stake in this argument, except that this is a
public safety issue and concern. The percentage of the cost of the construction to put in
the sprinklers is very minimum and it is nothing in comparison to the potential loss of a
human life. I would strongly recommend that we show our integrity as a city and adopt
this code and require the sprinklers. Thank you very much.
De Weerd: Thank you, ma'am. Okay. Is there any further testimony? Well, we
appreciate you all coming tonight. Council, if it's your desire to continue this until next
Meridian City Council
June 21, 2005
Page 28 of 47
week, I think we have gone long -- this long without a code, we can wait one more
week. Mr. Anderson, did you have a comment?
Anderson: Yes, Madam Mayor. I guess just to wrap up -- and I guess it's up to you
whether you want to continue this hearing and take some additional testimony, which I
encourage you to always hear all sides of an issue and make some decisions, but I'd
just like to wrap up tonight's testimony with -- you have heard, I guess, from numerous
subject matter experts, whether they are folks in the sprinkler industry or whether they
are fire folks or insurance folks, about the effectiveness of sprinkler systems and how
the industry has responded over the years to make more costs effective sprinkler
systems that can be put in these more residential of units. You also are very familiar, I
guess, with Meridian's limited resources that we have as far as when it comes to
firefighting. We are not a Boise fire, we don't have 200 firefighters with 12 fire stations.
When we have an apartment complex on fire, it totally taxes the resources of the
Meridian fire department and we often have to rely on systems and mutual aid from
surrounding departments. You also heard tonight that the cost of these sprinkler
systems, because of the materials that they use in them now, is very negligible and can
pretty much be offset by savings that can be found through insurance premiums and I
guess when the comment was asked by Mr. Whitney about the statistics that show why
we need this, if we are going to wait until we have millions of dollars in losses or we
have lives lost. to me that's a bad approach to take. We ought to be proactive. We
certainly should be looking at putting these types of ordinances in place before we are
in front of you saying we have lost three lives or we have lost millions of dollars worth of
property in our community. So, I would urge you to be proactive and I guess the last
thing that I would say is it's individuals like Viola, I appreciate you coming tonight and
commenting. Those are the people that this ordinance will protect and so we
encourage you to pass this. There was absolutely no reason in my mind that the
legislature should have passed it the way it was passed and we would urge you to pass
it without these exemptions that were put in there by the legislature. And with that I
would close or stand for questions.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, anything further?
Donnell: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Donnell.
Donnell: Viola, are you Ron's mother?
Ross: No.
De Weerd: I think mother was right.
Donnell: First of all, I would like to thank these young ladies here for coming this
evening. Considering the fact that my 90 year old mother-in-law lives at Traymore as
well, and, luckily, because that is a big complex, there are fire sprinklers and as she
Meridian City Council
June 21,2005
Page 29 of 47
burned popcorn in the microwave and set off the smoke detector, but didn't set off the
fire sprinkler, but couldn't hear the smoke detector, I do agree that it's a very important
part of the code and so, again, thank you for coming. I hope you don't have to come
another week. Frankly, Council and Madam Mayor, I would as soon go ahead and act
on this tonight.
De Weerd: It's certainly -- it's certainly -- the ball is your court.
Donnell: Thank you very much.
Baird: Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: I just made that suggestion. Mr. -- Mr. Ted. Baird.
Baird: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I don't want to stop the rolling train here,
but I do want to point out that this has been tee'd up for you for public comment tonight
only. We don't actually have the ordinances published on the agenda. So, at a
minimum I might advise Council to direct, if they come back next week, and if anyone is
interested in continuing the public comment, perhaps you might want to limit it
specifically to the one item that appears to be left open and that's hearing from the BCA.
That way you don't have a whole new group of people saying the same things next
week. If that's your desire, you certainly have the ability to do that. So, I just wanted to
add those -- those to the mix. The third item on the draft ordinances that are in your
agenda, but not published as ordinances for action, we have left blank the effective
date. In discussions with Mr. Freckleton, I believe he needs a 30-day minimum period,
perhaps, to get the word out. We might seek direction from you as to what you want to
see on the final version that comes before you and Mr. Freckleton handing -- is putting
his hand on the mike, so perhaps, Madam Mayor, I'd hear more specifically about
effective dates.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Baird. Yes, Bruce.
Freckleton: Thank you, Ted. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, we would like to
provide a 30 day period of time to put some signs on our counters in our building
department, put notification on our website, just basically gear up for that -- for the
implementation. Basically, just give -- we have been telling builders in the field that it's
coming, but we'd like that little 30 day window just to put it into place.
De Weerd: Okay. Council?
Donnell: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Donnell.
Meridian City Council
June 21, 2005
Page 30 of 47
Donnell: Leave it up to an attorney to delay this. If you were not on the payroll already,
Ted, I would have one -- I would wonder why. But in that case, Madam Mayor, I would
make a motion to close the Public Hearing.
De Weerd: Do I have a second?
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: It was a way out if I couldn't have gotten a second. Okay. The motion is to
close the Public Hearing. All those in favor say aye. Those opposed say nay. And I
say nay as well.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move that we continue the Public Hearing on the update of the building codes to
June 28, 2005.
Wardle: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. The motion is to continue this until next week and is that also to
include the attorney to prepare the ordinance?
Bird: Yes, ma'am.
De Weerd: Okay. Second agree?
Wardle: Yes.
De Weerd: Okay. All those in favor say aye.
Rountree: Madam Mayor. discussion?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: There was a suggestion from Council that we might direct that it be open for
receipt of testimony from BCA. Is that --
Bird: BCA. Yes. BCA only.
De Weerd: Okay. Do I hear a second?
Bird: We have heard from -- we have heard from --
Wardle: Second agrees.
Meridian City Council
June 21, 2005
Page 31 of47
Bird: We have heard from the distributors and the sellers of the products, so we will
hear from the others if they show up. If they don't --
De Weerd: Okay. The motion is to continue this until next week with testimony limited
to the BCA. All those in favor say aye. Okay. Anyopposed? Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 13:
Public Hearing: Status of Funds for Meridian Area Senior Citizen
Center:
De Weerd: Okay. Item 13 is a Public Hearing on the status of funds for the Meridian
Area Senior Center. Ken, are you giving this? Okay. Good evening.
Thomlinson: Good evening. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, my name is
Jennifer Thomlinson --
De Weerd: If you can talk a little bit closer to the mike.
Thomlinson: Oh. Okay. My name is Jennifer Thomlinson. I live at 10 -- wait a second,
that is where I work. 7996 South Federal Way, Boise. I am a grant administrator with
Sage Community Resources and this is a status of funds public hearing on the
upgrades to the Meridian Senior Center Project. Activities to date -- our total project
cost has been 171,603 dollars. Oh. And there is, actually, a typo at the bottom of your
handout. This isn't Garden City, it is actually Meridian. I apologize.
Bird: I noticed that. I thought maybe they were subsidizing us.
Thomlinson: So, the total project cost is 171,603 dollars. ICDBG money is 100,000
dollars and there is local match of 71,603 dollars. Thus far out of the grant we have
spent 17,812 dollars, which is 18 percent of the total grant, and we have 82,188 dollars,
which is 82 percent of the total grant left, and we are at 50 percent construction
complete. The activities that have been completed to date include handicapped
accessible ramps have been installed. The temporary railings are up, but the final metal
railings are expected to be installed in the very near future. The door frame on the
south side of the building has been completed, but the door hasn't been installed due to
a delay in receiving the ordered materials. Demolition of the bathrooms has been
completed and saw cutting is a hundred percent complete. We still have left to go the
kitchen renovation, which is the largest piece of this project, and I just got an update
that the ceiling has actually been removed and they are going to start working on that
this weekend. The bathroom renovation is 30 percent complete. Concrete excavation
is at 90 percent complete. Selective demolition is at 40 percent complete and epoxy
and rebar is 20 percent complete. The electrical, mechanical, plumbing and fire
sprinklers have not started, but the electrical is slated to start Thursday or Friday of this
week. And we are expecting a date of substantial completion at July 21 st of this year.
Meridian City Council
June 21, 2005
Page 32 of 47
We have had a few change orders -- or not change orders, but we have had some
amendments made to the ~~ to the project scope of the work and the budget. The cost
amendments are within the resources available to the project and do not result in
substantive changes to the budget, target, schedule, scope, objectives, beneficiary of
the project. And based upon the preceding presentation, the Meridian City Council will
open the Public Hearing portion of this meeting and request testimony and/or comments
on the project as described. Minutes of the Public Hearing will be prepared by the city
clerk and made available for public review and following receipt of any public testimony
and comments or response to any questions or recommendation will be made as you
close this Public Hearing and written comments will be accepted for five days after this
hearing. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Any questions from Council?
Bird: I have none, Mayor.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you very much. The Public Hearing tonight is to hear a status
report. Is there anyone from the audience who would like to ask for further information?
We will keep this open until next week to also provide an opportunity for further
questions or written testimony. Is there anyone who would like to provide testimony
tonight? Well, I see a number of people from the senior center. We appreciate your
attendance this evening. The president certainly -- Ken, the man behind the project,
has put countless hours into this and, Ken, your dedication and the time you put into this
is very much appreciated. So, if there is nothing further, we will go ahead and I would
entertain a motion from Council to continue this Public Hearing until next week.
Rountree: So moved.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. Motion is to continue this item until -- yes.
Berg: Madam Mayor, if I could interrupt. I'm sorry. The Public Hearing needs to be
closed and so that we have a five-day period to accept written testimony and that's that
grace period that Jennifer described.
De Weerd: Okay. So, can we accept written testimony with a closed Public Hearing?
Berg: On this grant, yes. That's how it's -- we will close the Public Hearing for any
public comments, but we will accept written testimony up to five days after this hearing
and. then, submit that all to Jennifer as the grant administrator.
De Weerd: Okay.
Berg: I'm sorry.
Meridian City Council
June 21, 2005
Page33 of 47
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I will do a substitute motion to close the Public Hearing for Item No. 13.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. The substitute motion is to close the Public Hearing on Item 13. All
those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: There is a motion to continue this until next week on June 28th. All those in
favor say aye?
Bird: No.
De Weerd: No?
Bird: We cancelled that. You put an amended.
Rountree: I substituted.
De Weerd: Oh. Okay.
Rountree: We are done.
De Weerd: So, we don't need any action on it. Okay.
Baird: Madam Mayor, if I could summarize what just occurred here is that pursuant to
the rules of the grant, we have held a public hearing, it's been closed, and the city will
be receiving -- or accepting written comments for the next five days. Anybody who
wishes to submit written comments is instructed to do so, but we will not be reopening
this hearing next week.
De Weerd: And because there is no action needed.
Baird: Correct.
Item 14:
Public Hearing: AZ 05-014 Request for an Annexation and Zoning of
19.72 acres from RUT to a R-8 zone for Sicily Subdivision by Landmark
Engineering and Planning - south of East Victory Road and west of South
Locust Grove Road:
Meridian City Council
June 21, 2005
Page 34 of 47
Item 15:
Public Hearing: PP 05-016 Request for a Preliminary Plat approval of 74
building lots 5 other lots on 19.72 acres in a proposed R-8 zone for Sicily
Subdivision by Landmark Engineering and Planning - south of East
Victory Road and west of South Locust Grove Road:
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you for that clarification, Mr. Berg and Mr. Baird. Okay.
Items 14 and 15 are Public Hearing AZ 05-014 and Public Hearing PP 05-016. I will
open these two public hearings with staff comments.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Bird.
Bird: We have been asked to continue these to 4/28 by our zoning staff, because we
got another variance to bring through at the same time, so with that --
De Weerd: Is that 4/28 in 2006?
Bird: 2005.
De Weerd: That was a couple of months ago.
Bird: 6/28. I'm sorry. Times goes too fast, as you get old.
Rountree: If that is a motion I'll second it.
Bird: That was a motion to continue Items 14 and 15 of the public hearings until June
28, 2005.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. The motion is to continue Items 14 and 15 to the 28th. All those in
favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 16:
Public Hearing: CUP 05-021 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for
an addition for a gymnasium and commons area to existing junior / senior
high school for Cole Valley Christian School Gymnasium by CT A
Architects Engineers - 200 East Carlton:
Item 17:
Public Hearing: VAR 05-007 Request for a Variance for a reduction in
off street parking requirements for proposed gymnasium and commons
area for Cole Valley Christian School Gymnasium by CT A Architects
Engineers - 200 East Carlton:
Meridian City Council
June 21, 2005
Page 35 of 47
De Weerd: Okay. Items 16 and 17 are public hearings CUP 05-012 and VAR 05-007. I
will open this Public Hearing as well with staff comments.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is -- this project is the Cole
Valley Christian School Gymnasium and it's located at 200 East Carlton, which, as you
know, is at Carlton and 2 1/2 Street. The applications include the Conditional Use
Permit for the gymnasium itself and that is required, because it's a school facility in an
L-O zone. And, also, a variance in the reduction for off-street parking requirements
associated with the gymnasium. The gymnasium that is proposed is 26,646 square
feet. It will be attached to the existing school structure and the gymnasium will serve
both the junior high and high school that are in the existing structure. Did want to point
out the unusual site design in that it wraps around the Apostolic Bible Church. I have
been stumbling over that word Apostolic all day trying to figure out how to say it. This is
the site plan. We have shifted directions here, so north is now going to the left side of
the page, instead of to the top of the page. This is the existing structure. The addition
comes and wraps around the property for the Apostolic Bible Church and, then, is on
the west side of the lot. And, then, the parking has been reconfigured on the remainder
portion of the lot as you see here. It does integrate with the parking that's on the
surrounded site and with the existing parking at the front of the school. So, it will be one
structure as you see here. And these are the elevations. Now, these elevations are
broken, so this is the break line here. So, this is the complete -- oh, let's see. That's the
complete east elevation. So, this will be the existing school and this will be the
gymnasium addition and this is kind of the central area between the two. And, then, this
is the west addition. You will see the existing structure is here and, then, this is -- this is
the area that would be behind the -- where the post office sits in front of this area here.
And, then, these are the north elevations and the south elevations. P&Z has
recommended approval of this application of the Conditional Use Permit, with
modifications. At that hearing there was one individual, Michael Morrison, who testified
regarding the on-street parking issues in Old Town in general. It wasn't necessarily an
opposition to this particular application, it was just with regard to the off-street parking
being provided in the Old Town in general. The key issues of discussion at the
Planning and Zoning Commission, there were three of them. The first was the proximity
of the food service to the proposed dumpster location. This issue was not addressed in
the staff report, it was brought up by Chairman Zaremba. I think it resolved during their
course of the hearing that the dumpster is close to the food service. I think he was
concerned that they were too far away from one another, but I think he was satisfied at
the end that they were close enough. The second issue was the required landscape
buffer between the school and residential properties to the north. So, along this
property line at the left edge of the page. And they asked the applicant to go back and
look at the existing vegetation on the adjoining property. He has done that. The
existing trees on that property provide a 75 to 80 percent screen of that -- of that
property -- shared property line there, so staff did feel that -- or staff recommends that
that is, probably, sufficient buffering for the Old Town area for this use. And, again, as
you will remember on the elevations, the north and -- the north elevation is relatively
small compared to the other one, so -- the third and the real issue in the old -- and the
subject of the variance is the on-site parking. The school, basically, has enough parking
Meridian City Council
June 21,2005
Page 36 of 47
to satisfy the parking requirements for the classrooms themselves. Their justification is
that the gymnasium is ònly being used as. basically, an accessory use to the
classrooms. They are not going to be holding activities in the gymnasium that would
provide -- or generate additional traffic, it's only serving the needs of the students that
are already there for school. Now, they may hold activities after school hours or they
may hold activities on the weekends, but the existing parking on site would be sufficient
to accommodate the gymnasium. When the classrooms aren't in use, then, there would
be enough parking for the gymnasium to meet code requirements. Our code is a little
odd in that it specifically says that if there is two uses, you have to combine the parking
requirements for both. It doesn't give you the ability to say, okay, these two uses aren't
going on at the same time, therefore, we don't need double the parking, it specifically
says you have to count both and that's why they need the parking variance. So, the
only outstanding issue before you to take action on the Conditional Use Permit, you do
need to take action on the variance, if you want to approve the Conditional Use Permit.
With that I will answer any questions that you may have.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any questions for staff?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. Is the applicant here? Good evening.
King: Good evening, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. My name is Jeff King,
I'm with CT A Architects Engineers, 1185 Grove Street, Boise, Idaho. We have no
issues with staff's findings and look forward to proceeding with the project. Any
questions?
De Weerd: We like that kind of testimony.
King: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Wood, do you have any comment?
Wood: My name is Mark Wood, I'm the superintendent of Cole Valley Christian School,
200 East Carlton, downtown Meridian. I have no comments, except to beg, plead, write
checks -- we are thrilled to have a gym. Thirty-three years without one. I will be happy
to answer any questions.
De Weerd: Well, we are thrilled to have you in our downtown and seeing the growth
both of your school and this expansion. That's great.
Wood: We are very happy to be here.
De Weerd: Council, any comments or questions?
Meridian City Council
June 21, 2005
Page 37 of 47
Wardle: Madam Mayor. just -w Councilwoman Donnell and I were discussing that while
Cole Valley hasn't had a gymnasium, this actual site had a gymnasium when I was a
student there, so --
Wood: Right. And we played there.
Donnell: And if it was good enough for him, it should be good enough for you.
Wood: It's not a gym anymore. The people we bought it from turned it into other things,
like a library and stuff like that.
Bird: That was the first gym in this valley with glass backboards. I think Boise High
come the next year. It was the first -- and I can't remember whether I was in the 7th or
8th grade that I played on it. It was the first glass backboards.
Wood: But, you know, the original gymnasium is in the -- is in the 1912 part of the
building, which is the smaller piece, and it's in the basement and it's brick.
Bird: Yeah. That's right.
Wood: Someday you will have to stop by there, because there were students from the
'40s and '50s that have put their names up there and stuff.
De Weerd: See, that just goes to show you that things change over time.
Wood: Yes, they do.
De Weerd: Thank God. Okay. This is a Public Hearing. Is there anyone who would
like to provide testimony on this application? If there is no further discussion or
information needed, I would entertain a motion to close.
Bird: So moved, Mayor.
Rountree: Second.
Bird: Sixteen and seventeen.
De Weerd: Okay. The motion is to close the Items 16 and 17. All those in favor say
aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Meridian City Council
June 21, 2005
Page 38 of 47
Bird: I move that we approve VAR 05~007, the request for a variance, and that includes
the Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and Decision and Order.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. The motion is to approve Item 16.
Rountree: Seventeen.
Bird: Seventeen.
Rountree: Seventeen.
De Weerd: Seventeen.
Bird: No. The variance has to go first.
De Weerd: Oh. Item 17. Okay.
Bird: That's why I sit next to the lawyer, to keep me in line.
De Weerd: Thank you again, Mr. Ted. Okay. If there is no further discussion, Mr.
Berg, will you call roll on Item 17.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Donnell, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move that we approve CUP 05-021, include the Findings of Facts and
Conclusions of Law and Decision and Order.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. The motion is to approve Item 16. Mr. Berg, will you call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Donnell, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Meridian City Council
June 21, 2005
Page 39 of 47
Wardle: And, Madam Mayor, if I might say it, it certainly is going to be a nice addition to
the downtown area, but it looks like a facility that's bidding for a winning championship
basketball team at the Cole Valley Christian School, so-
Item 18:
Public Hearing: MI 05-005 Request for temporary approval for the
operation of a public charter school in a L-O zone while awaiting CUP
approval for Compass Public Charter School by Compass Public
Charter School - 2511 West Cherry Lane:
De Weerd: And we will expect that. Thank you. Okay. Item 18 is Public Hearing MI
05-005. I will open this Public Hearing with staff comments.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this project is the Compass Public
Charter School and it will be located at 2511 West Cherry Lane and that is the Cherry
Lane Christian Church. Is that right? Yes. They are nodding. Sorry. And it will jointly
use the site with the church. The highlights of the proposed development -- they will be
using a portion of the northern building on the site and, then, I believe all of the southern
building. Their lease area is approximately 17,096 square feet. There will be no new
construction. The application that's before you today is just a miscellaneous application
for a temporary use. They have applied for a Conditional Use Permit and that is in the
process and that will be heard by the Planning and Zoning Commission on July 7th.
This is done because by the time it goes through the Planning and Zoning Commission
and, then, goes forward to you and gets the Findings done, it's into the school years or
getting awfully close to the school year and they needed to have some of their
approvals a little bit in advance of that. So, they are coming to you for a temporary use
for the school. In this instance we were able to have a comments meeting on it,
because it is coming up before Planning and Zoning Commission fairly quickly, so we
were able to flush out a couple of the issues associated with development of the site,
primarily the fire department. The fire department was originally concerned, because it
will represent a shift in the occupancy classification of the structures when it changes to
a school. The applicant has met with Joe Silva regarding the issues and I think they
have resolved it and all that needs to be done is to move some fire alarms to make sure
they are in the right location. The other outstanding issue with regard to the temporary
use is a letter from Joint School District No.2 and the applicant just got this a moment
ago. I forgot to give it to her when we originally got here, but I'm going to address the
concerns. The letter is from Superintendent Clark and the superintendent's concerns
are that this go through the standard conditional use process and that also, in particular,
that they get an inspection and sign off by the state division of building safety.
Regarding the first issue, the letter would imply that all schools require conditional use
approval and that is not correct. They only require conditional use approval in the L-O
and the C-N zone. They are an allowed use in the residential districts, as well as the TE
-- or techno -- and I can't -- we see the TE's so infrequently, that I can't even remember
what it stands for, but the alternative school is on -- in the TE zone. So, in those
instances those would just come in for a certificate of zoning compliance. They would
not come in for a Conditional Use Permit. So, this is going through the full conditional
Meridian City Council
June 21, 2005
Page 40 of 47
use process, it's just a little bit behind this miscellaneous application. The second issue,
as I mentioned, was the need for inspection and sign off by the state division of public
safety. That is certainly an appropriate condition if you'd like to place that on this
application. The applicant has indicated that she's already scheduled that inspection
and she was aware of that and has scheduled that. So, I think that addresses all the
issues. There is clearly enough parking for the school. The traffic circulation suffices
and there is really no other issue that we were aware of with regard to the school going
into this location and I know that they were looking for another site for -- for someplace
they can build, but I think they were running into time constraints. So, you may want to
ask the applicant how long they intend to stay at this site. I don't know. It may just be
temporary at the site as well. I'm not sure. Okay. With that I'll answer any questions
you may have.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any questions for staff? Okay. Would the applicant like to
come forward? Hi. If you will, please, state your name and address.
Jensen: Madam Mayor and Council Members, my name is Chris Jensen and I live at
2810 South Goldbar Avenue in Meridian, Idaho. I currently serve as the chairman of the
board for Compass Public Charter School and I come before you tonight to ask for your
approval of our miscellaneous use permit. What has kind of brought us here is we were
approved by the Idaho state public charter commission in October of last year. Prior to
that we had met with Brighton Corporation and we have proposed to them that they set
modulars on a piece of land that they had located at Ten Mile and Chinden, but to be
Bainbridge Subdivision and so -- and they were working on that and as we got further
into the process it became apparent that as -- if we went with the modulars, we would
need to be in them for three years and the set up costs and the return cost were
significant. So, at that time Dave Turnbull advised us that he thought it would be
prudent of us if we would possibly look for a temporary space to lease, at which time
that would give him the appropriate amount of time to, then, build a permanent site and,
then, we would lease to own from him. Following -- that was in April 21st when we had
that conversation and so we immediately began looking for a temporary location. We
went to Cherry Lane Christian Church. They are in the process of trying to sell their
building and build a new one, but it had all the necessary requirements that we had to
have. It had the space, it had the parking, it had all the things that we needed to
operate our school there for our first year. And so we proceeded with that. When we
began the conditional use -- when we approached the Conditional Use Permit process,
we realized the length of time it would take and it was suggested to us by Brighton
Corporation that we apply for a miscellaneous use permit, that would give us, then, time
to begin moving forward as we concurrently applied for the Conditional Use Permit. So,
that's what we have done and I'm trying to think if there is anything else. That's all the
information I have at this time. I have contacted -- our administrator has contacted the
state department of education and their building and safety and we are playing phone
tag right now, but we are setting up an inspection from their group over there and we
will -- we will have that inspection. We did go with Joe Silva today and had a walk
through of the building and there were some minor deficiencies, but they seem to be all
things that we would be able to have fixed in a timely manner. So, we feel confident.
Meridian City Council
June 21, 2005
Page 41 of 47
It's a great location for us. A lot of the parents and families that are in our charter
school, live actually close or nearby that area. So, it will be nice for them, even though
that won't be our permanent facility, it will be nice for them for the time being. This is --
this is a map and I will give this to the clerk when I'm done with this, but this is a map
that shows our boundaries and, then, also this is a temporary school site right here,
Cherry Lane Christian Church. The pins represent the families that -- and where they
come from, where they live, that will be attending the school and, then, over here up on
this corner is the permanent school site on Ten Mile and Chinden. And so that gives
you kind of an overview of our student population there.
De Weerd: Chris, if I can ask you to turn and just show who is sitting out in the
audience. Thank you so much.
Jensen: So, if you have any questions --
De Weerd: Council, any questions? Thank you so much. This is a Public Hearing. Is
there anyone who would like to provide testimony on this application? I knew, Larry,
you could not help yourself. Not that I find out there was deficiencies in my church -- if
you will, please, state your name and address.
Woodard: My name is Larry Woodard, one of the ministers at Cherry Lane Christian. I
live at 1701 Almaden, north of town. I just wanted to say that we are supportive of this.
They approached us a couple months ago. We have worked together to try and work
this out. Obviously, we have got to do some more discussion after the fire people went
through today, because they had some door things and other stuff that I just learned
about this afternoon. But with their help we think it will be a good match. It's going to
squeeze us all for one year, but we are both in a temporary situation, hopefully, and so
we -- I just wanted to say we are supportive of their request and hope that it will move
forward.
De Weerd: Thank you very much. Any questions? Thanks. Is there any further
testimony? Okay. Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: Madam Mayor, just a point of clarification from Anna.
miscellaneous use application for?
How long is the
Canning: I don't believe we put a time limit on it, but I can take a moment and look.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: The site specific conditions indicate that unless changed by the CUP, it
would be from August of '05 to June of '06.
Canning: Thank you, Councilman Rountree. I appreciate that.
Meridian City Council
June 21, 2005
Page 42 of 47
De Weerd: Okay. Any further comments or information needed?
Donnell: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Donnell.
Donnell: Anna, there -- under the comments it talked about a barrier, additional
buffering. Is that a requirement or is that just a suggestion? Under the noise ordinance.
Canning: Madam Mayor and Members of the Council, I believe that the issue was is
that the site as it was developed by the church a number of years ago doesn't provide
the screening that would be required for a school in this area. So, the question is is it
sufficient, though -- are the buildings sufficiently far away from the edge of the property
that the Council feels it's -- it is buffering the existing residences. I apologize for not
giving you more a detailed review of it. I guess I assumed that the City Council would
maybe address more of those questions at the CU stage. I don't know whether one is
better than the other or not. I just didn't provide you a very detailed explanation, so I
apologize for that.
De Weerd: Well, I guess, Anna, some of this information the school and the church
needs to know some of the requirements as they move forward and I don't know with a
miscellaneous application if the appropriate notification of neighbors that live in the back
of this have been notified. This is quite different than the church in terms of -- and I
guess I would have a question of the applicant, what do you do with the kids during
recess and -- and lunches and that sort of thing. So, I think they need to know what
some of the specifics are, because it certainly can add to cost both to the school and to
the church, if it's anything over and above what the church already has.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, yes, and the key issues would seem
to be any modifications to the site design with regard to meeting current landscape
buffer requirements or hours of operation. Although churches tend to not have hours of
operation, they intend to have, you know, very different hours of operation. So, it would
be similar to the existing church use, probably.
De Weerd: Was the notification, Mr. Berg, the same on this type of application as it is in
the CUP? Is it within the 300 feet?
Canning: Madam Mayor, we did generate a property owner's list and I'm assuming that
the clerk's office did use that to send out. So, that would be property owners within 300
feet of the application.
De Weerd: Okay. Was that for this one or for the Planning and Zoning meeting?
Canning: It's in my miscellaneous application file, so --
Meridian City Council
June 21, 2005
Page 43 of 47
De Weerd: Okay. And I don't see an overwhelming load of neighbors here, which is
pleasant.
Canning: I know. And, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I think that that's what
we were -- as staff that's what we were waiting to see. We weren't sure how they would
feel about this with regard to the buffering.
De Weerd: I guess I would ask Mrs. Jensen what happens -- and I know this will be a
question that comes up during the Conditional Use Permit, but what are the plans
during student breaks and lunches?
Jensen: The plan was to use that back yard as some sort of playground, because there
is no established playground on the property at this time, but there is also a gymnasium
right up against the back, so we were going to have some of the activities in there, too.
But during the -- during the recess time the children would be out there. We did go and
notice that there were three homes directly up against the fence there and there were
only three homes, which I know that three homes would be a lot, even if they didn't want
us there, but that -- but that didn't seem to have a big impact there. The children will
arrive at -- they are not allowed to arrive any sooner than 8: 10 in the morning. They will
be there until 8:30 playing before school starts. School starts at 8:30, at which time they
go to school into their classrooms. There is one recess for kindergarten, first, second,
third have three recesses. Fourth, fifth, sixth and seventh all have one and, then, the
children have lunchtime from 11 :30 to 1 :00, which is one and a half hours. It will be
staggered lunch, so the children will be out playing in that area during that time after
their lunch, before they come into their classroom. And, then, the children will leave at
3:00, as school releases at 3:00, and I'm guessing they will be cleared out by 3:15 or so.
So, that's the periods of time that the children would be out there making noise.
De Weerd: I guess one other question I would have, since I'm familiar with this church,
is they have a great deal of green space out in the front of the church and that's an
awfully busy road that it's on. Are there going to be any --
Jensen: There are fenced areas on either side that you can close for temporary use
and we would propose closing those during the recess time, so that traffic would not go
back there and be a safety concern.
De Weerd: Well, I'm more talking about the green space along Cherry Lane.
Jensen: Oh. The children will not be playing in that area.
De Weerd: Okay.
Jensen: They are not allowed there.
De Weerd: How many kids are we talking about?
Meridian City Council
June 21, 2005
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Jensen: Two hundred forty students.
De Weerd: Wow.
Jensen: And it's grades K through seven.
De Weerd: And you're talking about the little bit of green space behind the gym?
Jensen: Yeah. And I know that there is not a whole lot. We wish there was more, but,
obviously, this is what we were able to do with the temporary situation that we are -- that
we are with. But we do plan to have balls and jump ropes and those kinds of things that
you can do on pavement type activities and we are hoping that we won't have very
many skinned knees, but -- but that's what we felt would be the best place for them. It's
safe -- it's safer than any other part of the property for them to play in.
Donnell: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Donnell.
Donnell: Chris, you're talking about just this little area right there; right?
Jensen: Yes. Uh-huh.
Donnell: And that you would block off here and here, so that no one could -- I mean you
wouldn't have any kind of vehicles going around there.
Jensen: Right. There is little -- I don't know if you can see them on the side, the little
gate symbol --
Donnell: Right there?
Jensen: Right. And, then, on the other side also and -- yeah. Right there. And those
would be pulled shut. And, then, during recess we will have -- we will have at least -- at
least two -- let me consult with -- at least two adults out there supervising the
playground at all times.
De Weerd: I guess prior to your Public Hearing on the Conditional Use Permit if you
would contact the homes that are on the other side of that fence. I think that would be
very helpful.
Jensen: We would certainly be willing to do that and -- because we will be impacting
them and we have even talked about being proactive and letting them know in case any
balls come flying over into their yard, that that -- you know, that that could occur and see
if we could try to alleviate any of their -- any problems there, so --
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Council, anything else?
Meridian City Council
June 21, 2005
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Donnell: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Donnell.
Donnell: Neighbors never complain when balls go into their yards. They never
complain about the noise. They don't complain about any of that stuff, so --
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Is there any further testimony or information needed by
Council? Okay.
Wardle: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: Hearing no further testimony, I move that we close the Public Hearing on Item
18.
Donnell: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. The motion to close on Item 18. All those in favor say aye. All
ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Wardle: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: I move that we approve Item No. 18, MI 05-00518, including all staff, applicant,
and public comments with the addition of a requirement that the state division of
building safety review and approve this as a school site, as indicated by the applicant.
Donnell: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. The motion is to approve with the condition as stated. Is there any
further discussion?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Just a point of uneasiness, even though I probably will vote in the affirmative,
is that I hope the applicant understands that if this motion passes -- that does not
guarantee that the CUP will and I wouldn't want you go with an expectation that that
may not be breached. And, then, I have a question for the maker of the motion. Would
Meridian City Council
June 21, 2005
Page 46 of 47
you also include the standards for the inspection and sign off by the state division of
building safety, as indicated by the superintendent of schools?
Wardle: That was my intention.
De Weerd: He did.
Rountree: He did? Okay.
De Weerd: Okay. Any further discussion? Okay. Mr. Bird
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Donnell, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 19:
Ordinance No. 05-156
as ThrouQhway Street:
Use of Public or Private Property
De Weerd: Okay. Motion carries. Item 19 is Ordinance No. 05-156. Mr. Berg, will you,
please read this ordinance by title only.
Berg: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Ordinance No. 05-1156, an
ordinance enacting a new Title 7, Chapter 1, Section 11, Meridian City Code, making it
unlawful to use public or private property as a through way street and providing for a
waiver of the reading rules and providing an effective date.
De Weerd: Thank you. Is there anyone who would like to hear this ordinance read in
its entirety? Hearing none. Council?
Wardle: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: I move that we approve Item No. 19, Ordinance No. 05-1156, with suspension
of rules.
Donnell: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. The motion is to approve item, 19. Mr. Berg, will you call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle. yea; Donnell, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 20:
Executive Session -Idaho State Code 67-2345(f):
Meridian City Council
June 21, 2005
Page 47 of 47
De Weerd: Thank you. Item 20 is Executive Session.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we go into Executive Session as per Idaho State Code 67-2345(f).
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Mr. Berg, will you call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Donnell, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Move into Executive Session at 9:45 P.M.
Bird: Madam Mayor I move we come out of Executive Session:
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: All in favor. All ayes. I would accept - oh Council budget hearings. Keith,
Charlie and I have a COMPASS Meeting Monday afternoon on the 18th. We were trying
to fit it all on one day on the 19th, which is also a Council Meeting. Do you have any
issue with that? We could try it also the 18th in the morning if you want some of the
presentations then.
Bird: I thought that's what we do. The 18th in the morning then the 19th in the morning.
Donnell: Do we sit and listen to everything.
De Weed: You won't be there but we'll schedule the people that would be available
Berg: Yes but I thought Reta already sent out a schedule that had everything and -
De Weed: Yes but if Council would like to have a longer opportunity to consider things.
I think they take precedence over Reta. Don't tell Reta I said that.
Bird: Now don't tell Reta that.
Donnell: Madam Mayor I may be out of town that very week. Not maybe probably. It's
a family reunion.
Meridian City Council
June 21, 2005
Page 48 of 47
Rountree: That's July.
Donnell: July. And it's Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday.
Wardle: You need that much time to see the family? I'm just kidding.
Donnell: A lot of family.
Wardle: I'm all right with Tuesday all day.
Donnell: (Inaudible).
Bird: Do you guys want to do it all the18th or the 18th and 19th? We do have a
COMPASS Meeting at 1 :30.
De Weerd: So what's the desire.
Wardle: Tuesday is fine all day.
Bird: All day.
Wardle: It's going to be all day Tuesday regardless of whether we do it Monday or not.
Bird: Take one day instead of two. That's fine with me Tammy I don't care. Do you
want to start at 7:00?
Rountree: I can't commit to all day.
De Weerd: It would be recommending Christine.
Berg: Just so you know Christine we have to approve a tentative budget because we
have to post that out to the public. That's what you're really doing is approving a
tentative budget. We can go less but we can't go more.
Donnell: So actually this is the time for the Department Heads to present their budgets.
Berg: But somewhere down when we have the public hearing before the public that's
when you make your ultimate decision and prepare an ordinance for that appropriations.
We have to send something out to the public so they know what we're thinking or
looking or tentatively approving so they have some comments.
Donnell: I'm sorry that that happens to be that week.
(Inaudible discussion)
De Weerd: Okay I would entertain a motion to adjourn.
Meridian City Council
June 21, 2005
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Rountree: So moved.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: All those in favor. All ayes motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 9:50 P.M.
7/26/tJ§
DATE APPROVED