HomeMy WebLinkAbout2005 06-07
Meridian City Council Meetina
June 7. 2005.
The regular meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 7:00 P.M.,
Tuesday, June 7,2005, by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Mayor Tammy de Weerd, Keith Bird, Shaun Wardle, Charlie
Rountree, and Christine Donnell.
Others Present: Bill Nary, Will Berg, Brad Hawkins-Clark, Brad Watson, Bill Musser,
Joe Silva, Len Grady, John Overton, and Dean Willis.
Item 1:
Roll-call Attendance:
Roll call.
X Shaun Wardle
X Charlie Rountree
X
X Christine Donnell
X Keith Bird
Mayor Tammy de Weerd
De Weerd: I will go ahead and call the regular City Council meeting to order. It is June
7th. It's five minutes after 7:00 o'clock. Welcome. We appreciate you joining us tonight.
We will start tonight's meeting with roll call attendance.
Item 2:
Pledge of Allegiance:
De Weerd: Thank you. Item No.2 is the pledge of allegiance. We will be led today by
Eric Hempker and he is with Troop 132. Welcome, Boy Scouts. Please rise.
(Pledge of Allegiance recited.)
De Weerd: Eric, if you will come up front, I would like to give you a City of Meridian pin
for leading us in the pledge tonight. I'm sure you are all here and I will give the rest of
your troop one as well. I think you're probably here earning your citizenship badge --
merit badge? Well, great. Well, good luck with that. Thank you.
Item 3:
Community Invocation by Joe Anderson, with Cole Community
Church:
De Weerd: Item No.3 is our community invocation and we will be led tonight by Joe
Anderson with Cole Community Church. Please join us in the community invocation or
take this opportunity for a moment of silence. Joe, welcome.
Anderson: Let's bow our heads. May the God of endurance and encouragement give
you a spirit of unity among yourselves as you follow Christ Jesus. Romans 5:5. Thank
you, Heavenly Father for being the God of endurance, the one who can be counted on
to preserve when all else fails. Thank you for encouraging us, for lifting up our hearts
when we are down, for opening our eyes to see your beauty in life. Be with the City of
Meridian City Council
June 7, 2005
Page 2 of 56
Meridian, its Mayor, the City Council, the public servants, our fire department and police
department, be with us its citizens, give us wisdom to seek your counsel and build a firm
foundation and relationship with you. We pray for those who fight on our behalf
overseas, watch over and protect with endurance and encourage our armed forces as
they serve to protect our freedom. Bless this proceeding and may we honor you in the
manner in which we speak and act, in Jesus' name, amen.
Item 4:
Adoption of the Agenda:
De Weerd: Thank you, Joe. The Item 4 is adoption of the agenda.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: We do have one change on the -- Item 20 on the regular agenda has been
requested to be tabled to June 21 st, 2005, because of irregularity in posting the public
notice. With that I would move that we approve the revised agenda.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: The motion is to approve the agenda as revised. All those in favor say aye.
All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 5:
G.
Consent Agenda:
A.
Approve Minutes of May 10, 2005 City Council Regular Meeting:
B.
Approve Minutes of May 17, 2005 Pre-Council Meeting:
C.
Approve Minutes of May 17, 2005 City Council Regular Meeting:
D.
Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: VAR
05-008 Request for a height Variance from the maximum height of
40 feet to 58 feet for a recreational attraction for Boondocks Fun
Center by Boondocks Fun Center - Meridian, LLC - 1385 South
Blue Marlin:
E.
Water Main Easement Aareement for DeMever Furniture:
F.
Water Main Easement AQreement for HeritaQe Auto:
Meridian Sr. Center Rehabilitation Project ChanQe Order # 1 :
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June 7, 2005
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H.
ReQuest for Payment by KMO Inc. for Meridian Sr. Center
Rehabilitation Project ICDBG 04-111-1-SR:
I.
Well 27 Test Well Chanae Order # 1 ~h Treasure Va!!.!ï
DriliinQ:
J.
Contract with Civil Survev for WWTP Effluent Reuse Study:
K.
Two Partv AQreement with W.H. Moore for Water and Sewer on
East Ustick:
L.
Approve Bills:
M.
Approve Beer and Liquor Licenses for Mach Robin, LLC for
Red Robin Restaurant at 1475 North Eagle Road:
De Weerd: Item No.5, Consent Agenda.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move that we approve the Consent Agenda as published and for the Mayor to
sign and the Clerk to attest on all proper papers.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. The motion is to approve the Consent Agenda. Mr. Berg, will you,
please, call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Donnell, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 6:
Department Reports:
A.
Attorney's Office - Bill Nary
1.
Update on Solid Waste Advisory Committee:
2.
ReQuest for Approval of Two RecyclinQ Projects
recommended by Committee:
De Weerd: Item No.6 is the department reports and before I ask Mr. Nary to start in on
his items, I would like to recognize Len Grady. I understand you passed your exam, so I
would like to congratulate you. It's good news. Okay, Bill.
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Nary: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. A couple different things.
You should have in your packets a request from the community recycling funds for --
just as a refresher, this is a fund that is maintained by the city, these funds that are from
the recycling program that -- run by the SSC, our service provider. They range
approximately two to three thousand dollars a month, depending on the level of usage.
We do have a pretty high usage in the city. We allow for people to apply for use of those
funds. The criteria on those funds is that the project be within the city limits, that it
pertains to recycling, it can -- it doesn't have to just be pay to recycle materials, but it
certainly could have some other relationship to recycling and there has to be a one-to-
one matching component for the project. We have two applications. There is other ones
also, I'm sorry. There is some other projects that have already previously been
approved that are just awaiting the project to get completed for the city's match portion
of the funds to be paid. There is some bleachers that are going to get built and a couple
of other things. But, anyway, at the last meeting of the solid waste ad hoc advisory
committee, the committee did approve two -- the two applications that you have before
you, one from River Valley Elementary School, which was for some picnic tables made
of recycled materials for their playground, so they could use for a number of different --
different projects, is approximately 2,200 dollars -- excuse me. Their request was for
2,200 dollars, which was exactly half of the proposed project and they had raised the
rest of the funds for that project through some fund raisers at the school. And the other
item was for -- I believe it was also picnic tables and -- oh, excuse me, a bike rack, I
think, at Peregrine Elementary School for -- the request was for 710 dollars and we did
get an update, I think, today from SSC showing that it was not quite half, but it was
pretty close to a one-to-one match as well. It was within a few dollars, really, of both.
So, what the finance department needs, if is within the purview of the Council to
approve those two applications, that we would need a motion for that approval to
authorize those expenditures and, then, when those projects come through, then, we
would get back with them through SSC to get how that gets paid and that the project
gets completed and all of those things. But we needed the Council's approval if you
wanted to do that. Councilmember Rountree is a member of the committee as well and
do you have any comment or if you had other questions?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I have no comments. If there is no questions, I would make a motion that we
approve these two applications for recycled products and the use of recycling funds of
the city.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. The motion is to approve. Any discussion? I just appreciate that we
now have gone outside of just city-owned projects into our schools. I think that's a very
worthy cause and it will probably help strengthen the programs that the schools have
regarding recycling and the awareness. So, it's a very compatible and worthy project.
Mr. Berg, will you, please, call roll on this.
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June 7, 2005
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Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Donnell, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
3.
Discussion of Ordinance for Using Public or Private
Property as a Thruway Street:
De Weerd: Discussion of ordinance.
Nary: Council, I'm going to pass down to you -- these are copies of a proposed
ordinance that I'd like to bring back in front of you in a couple of weeks, if this meets
your approval. This is a request through the Traffic Safety Commission and the police
department. We have been having some problems here in the city of people using
parking lots as cut-throughs. One of the -- one of the members of the Traffic Safety
Commission is a reserve officer -- police officer, as well as a school district bus driver.
They have noticed they have had this problem significantly increase this year at
Meridian Middle School where people were cutting through that bus parking lot off of
Cherry Lane onto 8th Street and the police department traffic officers indicate that this is
becoming an increasing problem with traffic congestion, as you would imagine. The city
of Boise passed an ordinance similar to this about two years ago. I have changed some
of the wording to make it, I'm hoping, a little bit stronger and a little clearer than that
other one that was written previously. Basically, it's just to make sure that it's clear that
people, when they. use those -- those private or public parking lots, kind of use them as
a through way, that if it's a street, then, that would certainly be allowed, but if it's through
those, they couldn't do that and there is some language as to some methods of proving
it. I have run this through our prosecutor's office as well for their comment and a number
of folks at the police department. If you have any questions about it, if you would like
further information about it, I can certainly provide that. If it meets your approval, I would
put it on your agenda in a couple of weeks for further review.
De Weerd: Any questions, Council? And I think it's certainly an issue in our community,
but do people know that it's illegal to cut through parking lots?
Nary: It's currently not, so --
De Weerd: Well, I know, but how will they -- will these be posted? You know, how will
we get the word out?
Nary: Madam Mayor, I haven't discussed that with the police. I would imagine -- what
we have done in the past through the Traffic Safety Commission and the chief, is they
have taken a very proactive -- like the turn lane ordinance that we passed a couple of
weeks ago, the police department was very proactive in putting out a press release,
getting some press coverage to get the word out. The officers spend a great deal of
time initially, if we do approve an ordinance such as this, in warning the public and
issuing -- issuing traffic warnings to people, so they understand they can't continue to do
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June 7,2005
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that. Again, this is really the -- to address the most egregious problem type of cases, but
that's -- that, I believe, would be the chiefs same perspective as well.
De Weerd: Chief, do you have anything you would like to add?
Musser: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I just agree with the -- with what
Attorney Nary had mentioned and that we are currently doing that and that would be
exactly what we would be doing in the future if this ordinance does pass, is we will,
number one, do a media notification and a press release on that and, then, also warn
motorists for approximately a month to two month period if we catch them doing that
and, then, start issuing citations for the violation.
De Weerd: Thank you, chief. Thank you, counsel -- or, Council, would you like to have
this on your agenda in the next two weeks? I guess the next meeting? What is your
direction to Mr. Nary?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I'm comfortable having this before us in the next regularly scheduled
meeting, which will be two weeks, but I do have a question on 7-1-11, Paragraph B. It
talks about the prima facia evidence of violation is that if you enter a property and
immediately exit that property without stopping or slowing before entering an adjacent
highway or street, that's evidence that you were in violation. So, can one assume from
that that if you enter to cut through, but stop or slow down as you exit, you're not in
violation? Are you really accomplishing a lot?
Nary: Well, not exactly. The prima facia evidence provision of it is one method of
proving that from a prosecutor's standpoint, so if you have a person just basically cut
through the parking lot, doesn't stop or slow down, immediately exits out, you don't need
to prove anything else. If you're going to try to proof this violation from the officer's
standpoint, with different evidence than just Section B, you're going to show something
else, then, you're going to have to base it on the facts of what the officer's observations
would be. And, obviously, the defense is going to be: I meant to stop there, I decided I
didn't have my wallet, I didn't want to go through the drive-thru anymore, and that may
be the factual issue that a court may determine. B is just one method of proving it, but
you can certainly address it in other ways.
Rountree: All right. Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Nary: Simply, if the Council is okay, I'll just put it on the agenda for then.
4.
Update on Handbook Policies:
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June 7, 2005
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De Weerd: Okay. Item 4.
Nary: The last one I'm going to pass down to Council -- there is three different policies.
We had a number of policies before you a few weeks ago and Councilmember Donnell
asked a couple of questions. I brought a couple of other ones as well and, then, I'll
answer Councilmember Donnell's questions regarding the other policies that have been
placed before you. There are three. One is 6.2.2, which is the current city telephone
policy. All I have done to that particular one is add a provision regarding the use of cell
phones in reference to another new policy, which is 6.2.6. In discussing with the other
directors and the Mayor, we currently, when city employees have a need to use a cell
phone for business purposes, the department makes that determination, they issue that
employee a cell phone, they manage that cell phone program through the finance
department, they use a pool -- a pooled minutes with the cell phone provider, then, they
are required by our policy to, then, review all the cell phone bills to verify that the
employee is using the phone for business and not for private use. That's well and good
for some of the departments; it works very well for some of the uses. What we have also
found -- and 6.2.6 is simply an alternative method for using cell phones. Some
employees, for example, will use a cell phone for city purposes on occasion, but the
need for them to have it all the time doesn't really make much sense or for them to carry
their own personal cell phone and a city cell phone. It's not very practical either. So what
this policy that's in front of you would allow the department, if they made the
determination that it would be of some value to still have the city use of an employee's
cell phone, to, then, reimburse the employee a portion of the cell phone usage and they
can work it out between the department and the employee whether it would be the base
cost of the cell phone program package, because you're going to use it quite often, or
an amount less than that that would make some sense and they could simply reimburse
the employee. The phone belongs to the employee, the phone is their personal cell
phone for their use, they can buy any phone they want to use, doesn't matter. All the
city is doing is paying them a stipend for the privilege of using that phone and the
employee could use it for business during the work hours, for the employee to not have
to incur additional costs for using it for the city's business and the employees wouldn't
have to carry two phones. It's a very practical type of program and the reason I'm
bringing it to you now is some of the departments would like to consider going towards
this type of program and they have incorporated that into their budget requests that you
will be seeing in July and so this policy would, then, be in conjunction with that type of
usage. Where I come from we had instituted a program like this, we found it was much
easier and we didn't have to deal with people's bills and checking bills and any of that,
we just paid them a stipend and we were done. They could use the phone any -- and
they could buy any phone they wanted, they could buy picture phones, whatever, it
doesn't matter, because it was theirs. So, it made it simpler for everybody and that's
what 6.2.6 is for. The last one -- and, then, I'll take any questions that you might have,
we have had a number of discussions about our compensation program and I brought
3.4 to you the last time we talked a few weeks ago. The only other change I have had to
make since then -- we had a practice -- it was not a policy of the city -- we had a
practice that if an employee's position was reclassified in the course of the budget year,
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June 7, 2005
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for the new budget year, if their position was reclassified and their pay was increased,
they were, then, not entitled to a merit raise. We had employees that received increases
of 12 dollars a month and, then, therefore, did not get a merit raise. We had employees
that got somewhere in the area of the average of around 50 dollars a year and they
didn't get a merit increase. So, that doesn't make a lot of sense to me when you're trying
to encourage people through merit to have -- to have good performance to, then,
penalize them, because we weren't paying them of a market rate, it was what was a fair
wage in this particular area. So, this one, E, is the section I have changed and all the
changes that we have made or suggested in this policy changes, those wage
adjustments, for market purposes, could be considered in relation to what merit
increase the person may receive, but doesn't prohibit them from receiving it. What
brought it about this year was there was an employee that was -- that based on these --
based on some of the compensation changes we will be seeking at budget, would
receive an increase of five dollars a month. Under the prior practice they, then, would
not be allowed to have a merit increase. If I was that employee I'd say give me the merit
increase and don't worry about my five dollars and I think it will make up for it, but that
practice had been going on for a number of years. Again, it wasn't in policy form, we
wanted to clean that up and make sure it was clear that that was something you could
consider, but it wasn't going to prohibit somebody from being acknowledged for good
performance, so -- is there a question before I answer -- Councilmember Donnell had
asked some questions the last time regarding cost to some of the programs we are
proposing. There was two primary things that were in front of you that had cost
associated with them. One was in the directors benefits program, there was an amount
-- there would be a cost to the city to purchase additional life insurance for the director
as a benefit to that director. The city has to purchase that in ten thousand dollar
increments and I think Councilmember Wardle remembers I had to resend him the e-
mail about it, because I sent the wrong amount -- or I didn't make it very clear. For all
the eight directors for a single year to have the additional coverage to -- to meet what
the benefit -- or policy amount was, which was a hundred -- it ended up being 105,000
dollars policy, the additional 80,000 dollars, it would cost the city an additional 3,056
dollars a year. The other question -- or one of the questions was about the benefits in
the directors compensation policy, which addressed either allowing the director to have
additional time to meet the waiting periods for short-term disability or long-term
disability. In my discussion with the finance department, the finance director, because
we wouldn't be replacing that director in the interim period, all of the money for that time
period would be covered out of the director's salary and, then, once the short-term or
long-term disability kicked in, the insurance policy that we purchased for that pays 66 --
67 percent of the director's salary, so the city would, actually, recoup that in not having
to pay that amount, they would only be paying the difference. So, there wouldn't be any
cost savings -- or cost to the city to have to cover those waiting periods. The other
question was regarding the make-up pay for the military benefits. That's another one
where, again, it would only come out of the salary line right now. I think as I told you
then, all of the people that are affected by that are in our safety services area, police
and fire, all of those folks we would not be able to replace either during the interim
period that they would be gone, therefore, we would take that -- that difference of make-
up payout of their salary that we weren't paying them while they were gone anyway.
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June 7,2005
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The last one that I was asked to get an amount for was the cost for the vacation buy-out
-- or buy-down. What we did is we did a couple of changes since then, because of
costs. With all the directors' approval, I asked them to remove the two percent match
provision, because I felt it was cost prohibitive. They all agreed with that, that that was
probably cost prohibitive at this point. And the other thing we did is we put a limit on the
amount of hours directors could essentially cash out into the deferred compensation
program a year at a hundred hours. That way we could fix the cost up front at budget,
we know how much everyone makes, what we did is we took an average salary and an
average hourly wage and we were able to come up with 34 dollars as an average hourly
wage of all the eight directors combined. If we took a hundred dollars -- or a hundred
hours per director, if they had that full amount annually and put all of that into that, it
would be 3,400 dollars per director, which I think a total cost for that particular benefit of
26,200 dollars.
Donnell: 26,200, instead of 30 --
Bird: 3,400 per person, so 3,400 times eight. If they -- again if they max out that entire
hundred each year.
Donnell: Exactly.
De Weerd: Did that clarify things?
Donnell: It did.
De Weerd: Okay. Is there any questions for Mr. Nary at this time?
Bird: I have none, Mayor.
De Weerd: Okay.
Rountree: I have none.
B.
Planning and Zoning Department
1. Update
Siddoway:
on
Downtown
Transportation
by
Steve
De Weerd: Planning and Zoning Department, Steve was not able to join us tonight, but
I believe he did get some information to Mr. Hawkins-Clark. So, Brad, I will turn it over to
you.
Hawkins-Clark: Thank you. Yes, he did. I think the -- this is a process clarification that
staff would like for the downtown transportation plan. Up to this point that plan, in terms
of getting it into an official document for the City of Meridian, had been anticipated to go
through a Comprehensive Plan amendment. That would, at the earliest, probably be
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June 7, 2005
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able to be done by September, October, if it was started right now. And, as I understand
it, there was some concern expressed -- not concern, but the Ada County Highway
District is requesting that the City of Meridian provide them an official -- some official
letter, statement, et cetera, that says this is the preferred option, assuming that would
be the split corridor. It's in writing given to the Ada County Highway District at this time,
so that as they are going through their five-year work program during the summer they
know exactly where the City of Meridian stands. If we wait until the Comprehensive Plan
is done, that would be very late in terms of the five-year work program adoption. So, as I
understood it from Steve, the thinking now is to take it as just an item of discussion to
the Planning and Zoning Commission, not a Comprehensive Plan amendment, and,
then, bring it to this body, the City Council, for -- as a Public Hearing, but just to adopt
the plan, the downtown Meridian transportation plan. If at some point you wanted to do
it as a Comp Plan later, I guess that would be an option. But that way it could move
through the process relatively quickly, within, you know six weeks or so, the highway
district could get an official word. So, I guess the question is is the Council comfortable
with that, do you have other ideas about how to issue some kind of written statement to
the highway district for their five-year work program.
De Weerd: Yeah. ACHD is looking for the city's recommendation, so they can start
planning accordingly and move it forward. We did discuss it with our attorney and it is
not -- it's not necessary to adopt it into the Comprehensive Plan. A lot of these plans are
-- are approved through a resolution, I believe, and it is the desire of Council, as stated
earlier this spring, that we also have a Public Hearing in front of Council to take
additional testimony that was not collected during the extensive public process we have
already had. So, Council, we are coming to you to see if that -- the process meets your
approval, so we can start moving forward. Any objections?
Rountree: I'm comfortable moving it forward that way.
De Weerd: Okay. And so we will go ahead and put it on our Planning and Zoning
agenda for their consideration. It will not be a Public Hearing, it will be for a workshop
type of discussion. Okay. Thank you, Brad.
2.
Presentation by Dillon Smith on Masters Thesis "Downtown
Civic Center":
De Weerd: Item 2 is Dillon Smith. He is -- yeah, there he is. He did a master's project
on a civic center in our downtown core. He has given this presentation to the Meridian
Development Corporation and asked that he also share that with you tonight. Welcome.
Smith: Thank you.
De Weerd: Have you been here in front of Council?
Smith: I have not.
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June 7, 2005
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Bird: The MDC.
Smith: In front of the MDC.
De Weerd: I was like, oh, wow. I guess was gone.
Bird: Thought you were having a senior moment.
Smith: Thank you, Madam Mayor and Members of the Council. Once, again, my name
is Dillon Smith, I am a citizen of Meridian, my wife and I. What I was asked to present to
you was -- I wanted to get my master's thesis for graduate -- for my graduate degree in
architecture through the U of I at the LURC downtown Boise. And with your permission,
these slides are much more effective if the lights are turned off, if we could turn them
down. For our thesis we -- the project was completely left up to us and when my wife
and I purchased the home here in Meridian, I decided that -- well, first of all, I had
noticed the potential that downtown Meridian had and the historic value that has been
retained here and so I started with that and, then, a few things came into play. Before
we go further, actually, just to give you a little background of what -- the things that
helped this project come into motion. First of all, I got word of the foundation grant and
got ahold of that proposal. Unfortunately, we lost the bid, sorry to hear, but I was able to
use that same information and apply that towards my project, since this is just
theoretically based. Second of all, I noticed that there began a lot of word about split
corridors, new transportation ideas. My vote was for the split corridor when I went to that
town meeting, so I decided it would be fun if I went ahead and overlaid that split corridor
design right onto my site. And, Mr. Bowman, if we could go ahead. First of all, as
architects we are asked to -- we are taught to begin with the history of the site, know
that very well. Thanks to Carol through the historical society, I was able to get ahold of
this image. You can tell this is from the Statesman plane there at the bottom. This is
looking directly north of Main Street and I believe this was dated back to the '50s, I
believe. You can see the stack there on the left and the -- some of the building that are
currently in existence right there and right here. Okay. The next few images will be very
familiar to -- to you. Please be patient with me. This presentation was given to another
group of individuals that were not from the area, so I did have to educate them. Okay.
Zamzows. And this. Okay. This -- so now we are looking -- we are sitting right on Main
looking north. This is about where the turn of the split corridor would begin and this is
where my site would be begin. I do have a plan later on to show you exactly, but this is
the site that I chose to go ahead and design my community center. This community
center went right along with the foundation -- the foundation proposal. Had a YMCA --
let's see here. A boys and girls club. A fine arts studio. And, let's see here, a theater, a
performing arts theater. And, then, I added my own little ideas to that as well. So, once
again, this is another very familiar image. This is the image that I went ahead and it
overlaid onto my project. My site for this community center takes up right here and right
here and you will soon notice that I focus in on just one -- since this was such a massive
project, I went ahead and focused in on just one building and that was the performing
arts center that I decided to go right there. This is another image. This is, actually, on
top of the -- one of the silos. Brian Davis was kind enough to let me go up in that scary
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June 7, 2005
Page 12 of 56
elevator. Got up there and took a few images. This played a little role in my design. A
little bit more history of the actual site. There were some prune and apple packing sheds
on the very site along the railroad and this also played a little part in my role -- on my
design. Here are just a few sketches. You will notice that up here on the right that right
away I started thinking that this could almost become a campus, like a community
center, that this could be broken up, as opposed to one large massive building and I
also tried to play close attention to the -- to the idea of having a gateway, creating a
gateway into this downtown. I do know that this is the -- this is at the entrance or close
to the entrance of the Old Town District and, once again, a perfect opportunity to -- for
this design -- to set up the design to the project. I also was trying to -- these are at the
very beginning of my process, you can tell I was trying to - see how literal I -- literal I
should get with tying in these agrarian features into my design. But these were just
some first sketches. Once again, now getting down to street level a little bit. What this
corner feature could be. How to protect or how to treat this relationship between
pedestrian and this split corridor idea, with that fast traffic there on the left. My -- some
of my ideas was deceleration lanes of sorts that could lead you right down into the
parking garage underneath. An outdoor -- an amphitheater outdoors was also one of my
original ideas. So, this is where I was at halfway, halfway through the project, and we
did have a presentation that we had to give. Right here is where the YMCA will go and I
definitely thought something right here should tie in with right here to create a gateway. I
thought that right here could be your climbing wall. This is where the performing arts
center would be and beyond I did design a transit hub, where the train station would be,
along with some retail and parking. And, then, beyond what you can't -- I guess we can
go to the next -- we will see the back side of it. So, right here is where the boys and girls
club would go. Now, we are looking -- now I should orient you. I apologize. Now we are
looking south on Main Street in an aerial. So, this is where your transit station would be.
A little train come along here. That's your YMCA and performing arts center. This
feature right here that you see jutting out, that is called the fly. I had to do a lot of
research into theaters and learned that if you want a nice theater and you want to have
-- you want to attract theater companies, you need a large enough seating and you also
need -- this needs to be very professional and have the capabilities that very nice
theaters have, which is the fly, and you will see it in a later image. So, here is my final
master plan. I have already showed you the YMCA and the performing arts center. The
boys and girls club. And the transit hub would be right there. Okay. We can go ahead.
So, here is -- here is one of the final images that I created. This is -- this is one of the
vertical images that you would see driving along this split corridor. Back here is your
entrance into your -- into the performing arts center. Okay. And here are my plans. I
won't go into detail, but you can tell that there is the performing arts center. I extended
this shape right here to provide am amphitheater outdoors, similar to the Shakespeare
festival, for those that have been there off of Warm Springs. And, then, also the
opportunity -- not only can you present -- perform indoors, by creating doors back here,
you can, then, present outdoors, people would bring their own -- this would all be
hardscape, people would bring their lawn chairs and you could, then, perform outdoors
as well. So, I have created two opportunities to perform -- for amphitheaters -- outdoor
amphitheaters and, then, one very nice one indoors. And, then, it worked very nicely in
that all the space was stacked very neatly and provided all the classrooms, everything
Meridian City Council
June 7,2005
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that the program required. Okay. And this would be the south elevation. I guess there is
not much to say about this. Although I was thinking that you could create it by just
having a little bit -- another staircase. You could, then, go ahead and lead people on up
on top to create a rough garden -- just creating another opportunity for the people to
enjoy the view that's created. And this would, then, be the east elevation. This down
here is your entrance and beyond is -- there is your fly and, once again, your outdoor --
one of your outdoor amphitheaters. This is the section that's required for my project as
well, so I understood how this would come to -- would be built and how the two come
together. This is your fly and just to educate you a little bit, this is where the -- oh, I
should reeducate myself. That's where the -- the sets. Thank you. That's where the sets
are hung and stored and, then, they are dropped down according to the performance
and so that is nearly 80 feet tall and that is actually, according to my research -- here is
your main performance center and this is your lobby. I tried to get it as detailed as I
could, creating an orchestra -- orchestra pit, I'm sorry, and, then, plenty of storage
underneath here and -- okay. And, then, here are some interior -- this is almost what
you would be graded with, walking into this space. Just through the use of a few
slanting walls you could create opportunities for local artists to display their work and,
then, you're also presented with this three story space and these catwalks that lead you
on into either the classrooms or on into the upper deck of the performing arts center.
Next. This is now turning the corner, so you can see the entrance, and, hopefully, I
didn't disorient -- you're not disoriented, but along here, looking at the window, you
would actually see the -- you know, the fast traffic going along the corridor. That's what
-- this is just outside of that.
De Weerd: Chief, that was fast tracking.
Smith: And, once again, your catwalks that lead into this space. This is now coming to
the end of the hall and looking the other direction, just to give you another idea of what
this space could be like. Okay. And this is that outdoor -- by extending that fly shape,
you, then, create this outdoor amphitheater that's nearly as big as the indoor theater,
actually, as I -- when it comes down to it. This is where your stage is and, of course, all
the seating and, then, the graphic, you go on out and lead up, so people could actually
walk right down this little hill on this landscaping. And this is the final image. This is the
entrance into the space right here and this is one of the -- those would be the doors to
one of the amphitheaters and this is what you would be greeted with inside of that circle
that I have created with -- through the use of this -- all of these buildings greater than
the community center. And that is it.
De Weerd: Wow. Very nice.
Bird: Very nice.
Smith: Are there any questions or comments?
De Weerd: Well, I'm surprised Councilman Bird hasn't mentioned all the windows.
Meridian City Council
June 7,2005
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Bird: I love it. No. I just -- I love your designs and you did a lot of work and I appreciate
that. I hope we can one of these days have that dream come true.
De Weerd: I really appreciated your indoor and outdoor features on that. It's a very
unique downtown use. Thank you so much for sharing that.
Smith: Thank you.
Item 7:
Items Moved from Consent Agenda:
De Weerd: Okay. We had no items moved from the Consent Agenda.
Item 8:
Presentation for Meridian Gateway Signage of Findings, Solutions
and Budget Information by Walter Lindgren:
De Weerd: Item No.8 is a presentation from Meridian Gateway Signage by Walter
Lindgren.
Bowman: Do you want me to introduce some of this, Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, please, Clair.
Bowman: From here as a --
De Weerd: That works fine for--
Bowman: Okay. My name is Clair Bowman. Walt is handing out some of the work he
has done that he will review with you in a few moments. What the Mayor had asked is
that I provide a little bit of background for the origin of this. Many of you know that you
have approximately 36,000 dollars in this year's budget dedicated to Gateway. That was
the seed money through which the Mayor provided the challenge to the Meridian
Development Corporation, me and John Sessel as the chairman of the subcommittee
that was appointed. Walt as the primary volunteer to do the work. He has done
wonderful work and lots of it to get this project where it is today. The overall concept is
that there will be two different models of -- actually, three different models of gateway
signs. What you're seeing tonight will be two of them. One of them on two different
scales, two different sizes -- or locations and a second one in another location. A third
one an individual marker kind of bollard set up in the downtown area, the Old Town
area, will be developed further later on after we get some of these underway. Tomorrow
morning we will be presenting to the Meridian Development Corporation board this
same proposal in a little bit more detail, seeking their specific authorization and
endorsement to move forward and to engage in discussions with the city on how we
actually go about getting these done. You will notice this evening that Walt has already
gone as far as developing some of the scope of work documents. He has, essentially,
had a 95 percent complete, ready for bid, if that's the way we choose to go. However,
we anticipate that much of each of these will be financed through either donated funds
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June 7,2005
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or in-kind donations. With that, I'll let Walt go through the individual documents he's
handed out to you this evening.
De Weerd: Thank you, Clair.
Lindgren: Thank you, Clair. And, Madam Mayor and the Members of the Council, I
appreciate the opportunity to come in and present our -- what I would call, I guess, a
final draft at this point of our gateway signage and, as Clair mentioned, this has been
several months in the making through various meetings of an ad hoc committee that
was selected to kind of represent a cross-section of the Meridian citizens and,
essentially, come to some sort of consensus on what I call a family of gateway signage
and -- Clair, if you wouldn't mind putting the vicinity map for the Old Town. I believe
there is the letter from Mrs. Wilder. If you take a look at your packet, there is three
individual packets in that. The first one indicates the Old Town district signage. This
second one, which I call the regional A, is a sign proposal for the corner of Main and
Meridian at the corner where the KFC is, where the proposed intersection change of the
Waltman intersection is going to take place. And, then, the third is similar to the second
and it is the proposed signage for what I would call a regional B, and that would be the -
- what I would call the regional B and what that's indicating is signage that's actually
very similar to the A, but also at a smaller scale, because of some constraints that we
have in that -- and we will get into that in a second here. But I just kind of want to give
you a general overview of what you have got in front of you. The first package is the Old
Town signage and what we are proposing are two locations to start with. And, again,
through direction from the MDC, this is the Old Town district here, boundaries, the 21
block plus or minus that we have identified as kind of the starting point for the MDC's
task, as well as some of the general design guidelines. And, basically, what we are
proposing are two sign locations at this entrance off of Main Street as they pass over
the railroad tracks and to the north as you pass over Carlton on Main Street and these
locations probably are still to be determined at this point. If you wouldn't mind, Clair,
posting the elevation of the -- the other one is fine. Probably that main one. Yeah. That's
perfect. Again, this -- so, if you were to take a cross-section across Main Street, the
proposed signage is, actually, just derived from the -- the light post standard that we are
using and incorporating into new developments. Although this light post standard is
actually -- it's actually 20 feet, which I think the typical standard is 12 feet. So, it's a
larger sample, but the same detail, same post style, and the same manufacturer. The
concept here is at this Old Town entrance is to -- instead of arching or having something
in the middle which has proved problematic for various reasons, the group came up with
the idea of flanking your entrance as a book end sort. What this does it creates this
passage as you come in and you're slowing down, the signage of Meridian -- again, this
is a painted black sign and this being of steel and aluminum assembly, very clean, lit
with gooseneck lighting here, so you will have day and night easy readability of each
sign. One of the other attachments we are talking about is having a tube steel
attachment that could actually be -- would actually be taken down when a banner is not
being used, but, again, this would -- this support would actually be fastened to the sign
and create an opportunity for a banner to be spanned across. So, if you had certain
events, like Dairy Days or you name it, I mean we can assure that that would support
Meridian City Council
June 7, 2005
Page 16 of 56
that banner structurally and as well as meet the ACHD requirement of the 18 foot height
limitation -- or minimum I should say. Myself, Clair, and the Mayor met with ACHD, as
well as lTD. They were very receptive for the various applications and you will see
where ITD comes into later as I continue the presentation. ACHD's only issues were
that we maintain an 18 foot minimum offset from I guess the crown of the road to the
bottom of what would be the proposed banner location and, then, a two foot offset from
the back of the curb to the sign itself. So, this -- again, these are probably details that
still need to be worked out, but we feel confident enough that we have got a solution
that is conducive to this application. Any questions on this particular application?
De Weerd: No.
Lindgren: At this point we have put together an estimate -- construction cost estimate.
The initial sign, which I would say is one of these, is at 11,231 dollars. The second and
fourth signs would each be 10,351. The first one you're paying a premium for certain
template setups, that sort of thing for the signs. We have been working closely with
contractors, lighting reps, sign reps, sign vendors, artisans -- there has been a real
great input of quite a few people. Too many to name tonight, I guess, but they deserve a
lot of credit for the input on this. So, I'm going to just kind of quickly roll into what I would
call the regional signs and we can come back to this if there is any questions at that
time. If you look at your second packet, you will see the regional signage A and what
this is indicating, the proposed -- and I would call this the first priority of the regional
signs is at this corner of Main and Meridian right at the intersection of Waltman Road,
just south of the Kentucky Fried Chicken and there is that location. We have -- and I'll let
Clair speak to this later if you'd like, but we have been in contact -- or I should say Clair
has been in contact with the owner of the development here at KFC, they have been
very receptive to the idea of locating the signage at this corner and at this point the sign
I believe is proposed to be located directly on the right of way at the property line, which
would not be impacted currently as the intersection is oriented and developed, nor
would it be impacted by the future development. So, the idea is that this sign could
happen today assuming funds were available, and not be impacted by any future work.
So, that is the location at that point. If we can -- you want to show mine first, Clair, and,
then, the planning and elevation I think. So, this is the sign that we are talking about, it's
regional A. If you were to -- we have a plan here, but I'll just cut to the chase. This is a
rounded planter, which has an architectural stone veneer that is over it. You have got
plantings inside that, just a series of Barberry -- Japanese Barberries and the idea is
having this earthen material and, then, having this steel and, actually, a barbed wire
sculpture, which you kind of see a mock up here in front of me that Bernie has been
nice enough to put together and really give this two dimensional thought into three
dimensions. The idea is that you would have this earthen stone that would be
connected to the ground, indicating Meridian's connection to the earth and, then, having
this really really rough-in barbed wire -- I'm assuming most of you are familiar with
Bernie's work. Very talented, very creative, and just has a great eye for this type of
application. The idea is that this particular sculpture would come around and twist up
and be fairly textured and very -- fairly rough, if you will, and out of that rough and old
comes the new Meridian, which is a very clean -- and, again, indicated by this particular
Meridian City Council
June 7,2005
Page 17 of 56
model he put together of the sculpture. Very clean Meridian lines with some LED
lighting that, again, would float in between two planes of letters as indicated by this
mockup, which Bernie has put together as well. This is -- again, this is ten minutes, half
hour of her time. We are talking about a very clean cutting and a very clean Meridian
logo with the wheat swoop there. So, again, the play of the clean Meridian sign with the
rough sculpture. This -- trying to think of anything else I might have left out of that. We
are calling this regional A and at this time our estimate for construction cost, assuming
-- and there is the planter there. So, there is the planter with the welcome sign, which
will have an actual LED, which is a soft lit halo light that you can't see the source, but
you will see the glow come out the welcome sign on both sides and it's questionable
whether or not we even need this backside at this point. But for now our construction
estimates -- and this is including contingency and I would probably qualify as a fairly
conservative cost estimate, is at 38,799 dollars. But also keep in mind that's not taking
into account any potential volunteer, donations, that sort of thing. That's just a pure cost
and again I would qualify as hopefully pretty conservative. If we could go to the regional
B as well, Clair. If you look at your third packet, regional B addresses gateway signs
and these are the first two that have been identified for various reasons and is -- we
have had conversations with the representatives from ITD, seemed to be very receptive
of our proposal and seemed to -- as soon as this work is to start taking place of the
center median and planter construction, the idea would be to incorporate this scope of
work in with those areas. I'll defer to the Mayor in terms of the reasoning for this
particular location. I think she was the one that spearheaded that particular location and
this one seemed to just work out very well and, again, incorporating into the proposed
Eagle center median construction project, which I believe is slated to start in 2006. I
believe that's correct.
De Weerd: '7.
Lindgren: 3007.
De Weerd: Oh, no. It is 2006.
Lindgren: I think that's the first phase is 2006 right here. If we could go to that -- again,
the elevation again and it's really just a -- again, a smaller version, if you will, of the
regional A, primarily because of the constraints of the median dimensions and, then,
that's really the constraint we are dealing with at this point. Again, the idea was to locate
this at the center median, which makes great sense if -- you know, we are trying to bring
people in and incorporate in some sort of nice welcoming gateway. Flanking the streets
of Eagle just seemed to be lost and -- would be lost in the view and we are not spanning
any sort of arch over Eagle Road, for that matter. So this seemed to be the direction we
headed fairly early on and, again, seemed to be very well received by lTD. Again, a lot
of the same elements. Instead of a seven-foot radius, this is a four-foot radius planter
bed. That construction cost at this point we have estimated at 33,874 dollars.
De Weerd: For both of them or one?
Meridian City Council
June 7,2005
Page 18 of 56
Lindgren: For one -- for one sign. Right. And I would just encourage you at your own
leisure to take a look through those packets. I would have liked to have gotten those to
you earlier prior to this meeting, but we were kind of running short on time. So, I just -- if
you had any questions, I could be reached or through Clair as well. I don't know if you
want to add anything to that, Clair. Did you want to add anything to that? Okay. Does
anybody have any questions? .
De Weerd: Council, do you have any questions?
Bird: I don't. Very nice.
De Weerd: I guess this will go to the Meridian Development Corporation tomorrow and
as we look at this I would like, if Council feels comfortable tonight or maybe at the next
meeting, I would like an approval of the design and okay to at least move forward
through this process and we will come back as we know when placements and more
details on that are known. Any comments on the design, if you feel comfortable --
Donnell: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Donnell.
Donnell: On regional 8, the one by St. Luke's in the median, the same thing with the
one that's north of Ustick --
Lindgren: Yes.
Donnell: -- would also be in the median?
Lindgren: That's correct.
Donnell: How susceptible are they to cars running into them?
Lindgren: The susceptible -- I would answer that. We just met with -- the Mayor, Clair,
myself, met with Wade, I believe, the representative from lTD. I didn't sense any kind of
concern on his side. At the same time they have a planter that is actually being
proposed just inside of that median curb that is at the same dimension as what we are
proposing. In fact, I believe he uttered the words we may even just end up building the
planter portion of your project, because it's, essentially, probably just an extension of
what they are doing anyway. So, I didn't hear any concern on his side. In fact, I felt it
was received very positively. So, in terms of, you know, susceptibility to cars hitting it,
probably no more than what the planter itself as proposed by ITD would present, so --
De Weerd: And there will be some grading down to the curb level, so it is higher than
curb and it's -- I don't know how high the planter will be, but --
Lindgren: Plus or minus two feet.
Meridian City Council
June 7, 2005
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De Weerd: And I guess our concern, when I looked at the A and the Kentucky Fried
Chicken site, I guess with the barbed wire and the barberries, no one is going to climb
on it either.
Lindgren: That's the whole idea.
Rountree: They will try.
De Weerd: But they will hurt doing it.
Lindgren: If I may, though, that -- I believe that median from curb to curb is plus or
minus 12 feet and these are in at least two feet from each -- at the minimum. And we
would probably defer to ITD as we get closer to that time, but at this point we are not
doing anything -- presenting anything broader than what they are already presenting.
Donnell: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Donnell: First of all, I think it's a wonderful design. It's something very different. I think
it's timeless and -- but having lived in Woodbridge Subdivision and turning there at
Magic View, I'm assuming that the improvements that ITD is proposing for that median
will change the way cars go in and out of those areas and --
Lindgren: Potentially. Sure.
Donnell: -- that probably will protect that to some degree, because right now it wouldn't
protect it at all, wouldn't you agree Mr. Wardle?
Wardle: I do, but I believe that they are doing away with the left turn intersection.
Donnell: It's very nice.
Lindgren: Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you, Walt.
Lindgren: Thank you. Appreciate your time.
De Weerd: Council, any direction on --
Wardle: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Wardle.
Meridian City Council
June 7, 2005
Page 20 of 56
Wardle: I agree, I think we proceed. I think the design is wonderful and locations
certainly seem to make sense in this current portion of time, especially with the
construction. So, I'd proceed forward. Thank Walt for his help on all the projects and
having done a project with him, knowing that that conservative estimate will get flushed
out in the bidding phase. I think it's up to us to figure out how to build them. Up to us
and MDC, but certainty the sign's great.
De Weerd: I appreciate all your work. I did want to -- for those of you who don't have
these packets, they kind of gave a little bit of detail of why it looks the way it does and it
talks about the stone base and barbed wire are representative of Meridian's dairy and
farming heritage. The fade into a solid form into the supporting the half circle represent
the growth of the city and diversity in the roots and embracing the future and what's
ahead. So, it's very symbolic and I agree with Mrs. Donnell, it's timeless. We appreciate
you being here tonight and sharing that with us and as you heard we have direction to
move forward. Do I need that in the form of a --
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I just -- my question is MDC will be seeing this, do we wait
for action based on their recommendation or --
De Weerd: At this point it's our money. I think you just need to make a recommendation
to move forward to the various channels and that will be one of the channels and getting
through the Old Town part of it. Would that be appropriate, Clair?
Bowman: Madam Mayor, the direction from the MDC board to me was that I spend my
time on the one at the confluence of Main and Meridian and on the two sets of
standards in the Old Town area. The resolution that we have drafted for the MDC board
tomorrow authorizes me to go ahead and begin fundraising for that or in-kind donation if
the MDC board is ready to do that. Yet, also, involves me coming back to the city and
working with you and the Council in a more formal way to arrange for how the funding
would work, to be sure that everybody is on the same page. We really need one
agency, rather than both, in charge. I don't particularly care how it is, but that's part of
what the MDC board will be asked to request of the city tomorrow.
De Weerd: Certainly on the Eagle project I have been in contact on the north end
anchor, north of Ustick, and I will be talking with the developers there and, hopefully, we
can integrate the construction of the one on the south end of that with ITD's activities
and it's -- all of those on Eagle Road will be based on their time frames and when those
medians go in. So, there is no solid plan and I will bring those back as we work with ITD
on those. So, that's great. Thank you again for being here tonight. Mr. Nary, do we need
a motion on at least the design?
Nary: Madam Mayor, since I think it's going to come back to you before you actually
approve it, I think if the Council's will is to go forward on that, you don't need to have a
motion.
Meridian City Council
June 7,2005
Page 21 of 56
Item 9:
Continued Discussion from May 17, 2005: Discussion of Black Rock
Subdivision by Brad Watson, Public Works Director:
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you, counsel. Item 9 is a continued discussion regarding Black
Rock Subdivision. Brad.
Watson: Thank you, Madam Mayor and Council Members. I will try not to cover a lot of
ground that we did three weeks ago. Three weeks ago I believe I was asked to go back
and gather some more information and put together some bullet points of the pros and
cons of the proposed Black Rock Subdivision that's located in our referral area. Those
pros and cons would be in terms of the different scenarios for providing city services, as
well as looking at some land use and transportation considerations. I handed out a hard
copy to you tonight listing those things. There are three options, three realistic options
on how the city could proceed. The one thing I want to point out is that we do have the
singular issue of whether to provide water to this proposed project that has approval
through Ada County or to allow United -- or just simply let United Water extend service
to this subdivision, which has already been approved by the PUC. The bigger picture
issue is whether or not we incorporate this formally into our planning, whether that's
water, sewer, land use, transportation planning into the city. I think what is decided on
the singular issue of providing water and/or sewer to this area really drives that
approximately three square mile area that's bounded by Locust -- is that right? Locust
Grove Road on the west, Columbia on the south, and that quarter mile -- quarter mile
west of Cloverdale on the east, up to a quarter mile south of Amity. The photo that is on
the screen right now shows that area. That area has the different colors and it's colored
according to what the assessor's office has designated it as, whether it's residential,
agricultural, bare land, et cetera. In addition to the pros and cons, there is a third sheet
attached to my handout that talks about the number of lots, the number of acres that are
in these different categories. I did a rather rough analysis of what the estimate in tax
revenue is on that existing area out there and just on the residential plated lots, which
would be around 50,000 dollars per year. The existing median assessed value on the
residential is around 240,000. There are seven to eight recorded subdivisions in this
area. Most of them have rather large acreages. There are a few that are small cluster
type. They account for less than I thought they would. They are really only around 350
acres out of the total 1,860. Only three of those recorded subdivisions are nonfarm,
which means they have additional acreage within that plat that can be developed once
central services are there. Also, on that sheet you will see, again, a rather rough
estimate of what the ultimate property tax revenue would be at the city's current mill
rate, mill levy, which ranges from around 900,000 dollars a year at an assumed density
of one per acre up to 1.8 million per year with a density of two per acre. It appears that
little of this is potentially commercial, so I didn't include any of that in those projections.
Please stop me if you have any questions. I'm just going to kind of keep rambling. If I'm
covering information that is old or you have already heard, just let me know. On the pros
and cons on the three options we went through last time, the first one we talked about
operation of a satellite water system by the city. This would allow the City of Meridian to
maintain a presence in that area and, theoretically, keep United Water in Boise city's
area of impact. There would be minimal capital cost as well with this type of installation.
Meridian City Council
June 7, 2005
Page 22 of 56
Conversely, if this one -- if we agree to do it for this one, I think we can be sure
additional proposals would be forthcoming. The user fees that we had in place for the
general city I don't think would be sufficient to cover the cost of a satellite -- operating a
satellite system. Didn't do an analysis, but it seems to be a fairly safe assumption, I
think. There would be additional testing, monitoring, and some duplication of federal
requirements in terms of reporting. I'm not sure that we can implement different rates.
That's probably simply a legal question. We need to review those plans before the
developer constructs those if we are to operate it. There was some discussion about a
well and some water rights and who would own those and how would those be
conveyed ultimately to the city. The second option was extension of both sewer and
water to this development. It allows us to keep this in our planning area. We do,
actually, have sufficient water supply to serve this area. There is -- there would be some
significant off-site costs and there has been no discussion on who would bear those. It
appears that there would be in the order of 300 to 400 thousand dollars of off-site water
line costs to get to the outer boundary of the Black Rock Subdivision. There are several
development applications between the existing Tuscany development and the northern
boundary of this development that are pending. They have been at Planning and
Zoning, they have not been before you. If those are approved, our sewer capacity on
the Ten Mile trunk is whittled down to around 200 to 300 units, which would really,
probably, only be enough to serve this development ultimately. The third option was to
not provide water at this time, let United Water come over and serve this subdivision
that would develop as a cluster sub with its own on-site wastewater treatment system.
This allows the developer to proceed. The city could retain this portion of the referral
area and potentially include it in the area of impact at a future date. As I said three
weeks ago, the timeline for providing sewer to this area is dependent on a number of
dominoes which begins with the Ten Mile interchange, I believe, and the intervening
development between roughly Ten Mile and 1-84 at this site, which is, oh, three to four
miles away. There is some administrative issues, negatives, with this proposal, if we do
sewer in the future with United Water present, we will have billing concerns. There really
is no -- as far as I know, any precedent for taking over a United Water system once they
have been established in a development. And the other con as far as the developer is
concerned is I think this would limit his ability to redevelop anything beyond his initial
cluster subdivision. The other one that I don't have down here as a negative is that there
would, obviously, I think, be additional developments that come in under this scenario if
we did approve it with United Water -- or I guess we are not approving anything, but if
we let this go with United Water with the intent to ultimately serving it with sewer, I'm
sure other applications would be right behind this one. As was shown in this -- in the
mapping that's on the screen, there is a significant amount of agricultural land -- even
the stuff that's purple and called it residential by the assessor, is really -- maybe a house
is on there or something. It is largely undeveloped. A very simple and quick look at the
transportation issues. On the plus side Eagle Road will be widened to five lanes all the
way to Victory Road in 2007. This is a mile and a half north of Black Rock's northern
boundary and the intersection of Eagle and Victory will be signalized that same year. On
the con side, all section line roads within one mile of the project are two lane rural
sections and there are no other significant roadway projects in ACHD's five-year work
program in this area. land use -- and the first pro I have there I'm not sure is really true
Meridian City Council
June 7, 2005
Page 23 of 56
in light of what I just said. A lot of this is not in relatively small parcels. There is a
distribution of -- there are quite a few small parcels, but there are really -- there are quite
a few tracks of larger areas as well that could be redeveloped. And, similarly, the bullet
-- the first bullet point on the con side I'm not sure that that is extremely accurate, but
there are some large tracts. I think the stuff that has been platted so far, the large
acreages, has little potential to develop, but, as I said, it surprised me, there is only
about 350 acres out of nearly 1,800 that meets that. This is no new concept to you,
when we are serving less dense developments; the cost of seNices per dwelling is
proportionately higher than in what we consider urban density development. Future land
use, right along with that, this will likely develop to lower density. What has developed
out there is -- is lower density. There are some cluster subdivisions that had lots in the
order of an acre, acre and a half. The city would retain the ability to include this in the
tax base upon future annexation, whether or not we have seNices there. The concern is
that this raises a potential similar to the southwest Boise area regarding annexation of
the existing development. As I said very early on, there is likely little commercial
development in this area. With that, I would be happy to answer any questions. I hope
that's more information than you really wanted. I couldn't think of anything else to throw
at you. So, with that I'll answer questions.
De Weerd: And I guess, Brad, I would have a question as far as the area -- I know this
is kind of a difficult area and certainly one at the very corner. Is -- is bringing services
out here in the best interest? Does it seem like this might be an area best left in the
County? And I apologize, because I wasn't here for your original discussion, but how is
serving that entire area, in addition to this -- this particular item?
Watson: Madam Mayor, this area has been in our sewer master plan for at least ten
years and these trunks have been extended down into the vicinity of this corner. Our
water system master planning is -- is a little more -- we currently have planned down to
the area of impact, but it's a very stepwise master planning system that we use where it
could be extended down simply into our grid -- normal grid system. If this was to be
served by Boise city, ultimately I believe they would have to pump over into the
Cloverdale trunk, at least this western portion, whereas, this would all be seNed by
gravity by Meridian ultimately.
De Weerd: Council, any questions?
Donnell: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mrs. Donnell.
Donnell: First of all, Brad, thank you for this. This was exactly what we asked for and
then some, because we did say, you know, put it down in black and white what the pros
and cons are of each one of those and so I labeled these A, B, and C on those options
and, you know, my limited knowledge and experience with water and sewer, other than
I'm glad I have them, is that -- is that I really don't know, but this gives me at least a
base of making a decision that I will feel comfortable with. And having said that, I don't
Meridian City Council
June 7, 2005
Page 24 of 56
like option C and I think option B, of course, is expensive at this point, but it seems like
in my mind that it's down the road -- it's in the future and so it's just my opinion for
whatever it's worth, I like option A. Now, for the public option A was the operation of a
satellite water system by the City of Meridian. Thank you.
Wardle: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: Again, thank you, Brad, for all of the information. I -- since we are really looking
for opinions at this point from the Council, I disagree with Mrs. Donnell's opinion on
option A and I would, actually -- we are really setting policy decision here and I think it's
an important policy decision. At this current time I think we are in a situation where we
have got -- we have got a property owner that already -- that is -- that has gone out and
sought service from a utility and we have opposed that and had a ruling against what
we thought was best practice and so I think we need to deal with that, but I don't
necessarily want to -- want to remove this area from our referral area, because at some
point when we have some increased capacity for the service -- for sewer service, I think
it might make sense for a future council to decide whether they'd like to annex that
property, so -- in that case, I would prefer option C, which would be to allow --
essentially, to allow this parcel to be serviced by United Water, which was the Public
Utility's ruling.
De Weerd: Thank you. Any other comments from Council? Okay. Brad, have you
talked to United Water on option C and about turning over service or how that
relationship might work?
Watson: Madam Mayor, no, I have not asked them that question. I guess I should ask
them the question. I already know the answer, but I can if you wish. What they do in
Boise city is -- is this system where they operate the water utility and Boise city operates
the sewer utility, so I'm sure they wouldn't have any problem with that.
De Weerd: I have asked the question. Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Brad, on that point, one of the cons against that is the ability to administer a
turn off and not paying sewer fees. How does Boise work that with United Water? Do
they have some kind of an agreement?
Watson: Madam Mayor and Councilmember Rountree, Council Members, they publish
the names in the Statesman for delinquent accounts. They are not turn off by United
Water. In fact, if I may add a point of interest, the University of Idaho's student --
engineering students devised a mechanism to go in the sewer line to turn people's
sewer off. I'm not sure that that met with great success, but I haven't heard it being used
a whole lot.
De Weerd: That would get instant attention.
Meridian City Council
June 7, 2005
Page 25 of 56
Watson: It was in the paper one day.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Nary.
Nary: Yeah. And, actually, the city of Boise patented that product and they do use it.
Watson: Oh, do they?
Nary: They use it fairly often in shutting off sewers. But that's just sewers, not water.
United Water does the water.
De Weerd: There you go. A whole new pleasurable experience. Dan, did you have
anything you wanted to comment on?
Wood: Mayor and the Council, I appreciate, you know, all of Brad's work. I got to take a
look at this a little earlier. You know, of course, my option would be B. But I understand
-- you know, I was glad to see at least option B there. I did like the little part there, one
of -- well, I guess one of the positive sides of one of the cons there is he said there was
a little sewer capacity. So, you know, because what I was hoping maybe if at all
possible, that with the 44 lots, we'd love to be able to service it off of city sewer and that
way for just the 44 lots. You know, looking at the plans here, you know, we are -- ACHD
is planning on widening Eagle Road in 2007. Hopefully, that is going to be coming
along. You know, the question -- I guess part of the -- you know, it's just a rough guess,
I'm sure, or an idea what the cost would be to bring water, you know, from the City of
Meridian, we didn't project that it would be that much, but, you know, again, that would
be something that we could be definitely entertaining if it was something that we could
work out with you guys. You know, it's going to be a nice area. I mean part of the
contour of this ground, you know, with what Brad was saying to the west really -- that's
probably the ground that would be easiest to sewer back to Boise, just because there is
a big bench across there and it's probably 50, 75 feet higher than Eagle Road. So,
hopefully, the sewer, it would be -- shoot it all the way back. You know, I was a little
surprised, I thought the long-term planning for this area was closer to three units an
acre, but with calculations here one to two, I could see that potentially it would be
something totally different than what Meridian has elsewhere, meaning the density
would be a lot lower, a lot of large lots and what we are finding, there is a lot of people
that want large lots that's not necessarily good for the city taxwise. But it sure seems
like a lot of people would like to see larger lots, so --
De Weerd: Any questions of Mr. Wood?
Bird: I have none. Thank you.
Wood: Thanks.
Meridian City Council
June 7, 2005
Page 26 of 56
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Council, do you need any further information from staff?
I know they would like direction on what way to go on this. And I'm sure the folks in the
audience would love to go home tonight at some point.
Rountree: But not Frank.
De Weerd: Frank always hangs in until the very last minute. We love you, Frank.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I'm going to ask the same question I asked on May 17th. What's your
recommendation, Bradley?
Watson: Madam Mayor, Councilmember Bird, I'm really not trying to be obstinate about
this, I guess. I can provide recommendations as far as water and sewer, but this really
feels like a land policy decision that I'm not sure I'm comfortable recommending. What
would be the most logical for the city would, obviously, be option B if we could do it. We
can do the water. We can extend the water. There is a cost associated with it. There is
little sewer capacity out there to serve anything other than this property. Option A is not
real palatable, because we will, obviously, need more staff to operate not only this
satellite system, but others that are sure to follow. I'm not sure that's real cost effective.
Option C in the very short term that sounds great, in the long term I'm concerned about
that -- that marriage between utilities. It does -- it has worked. You know, it depends on
who you talk to in Boise city whether it's successful or not. The perfect world would be
what we would do. But there is going to be another project right behind this one where
we are having the same discussion and I can't provide sewer to it.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I'm with you, Brad, on option B, because, you know, you can get water out there. I
have a problem with the sewer. That is a natural flow to us. If the developer would agree
to put his sewer system in -- his little satellite sewer system to our specifications, I would
be -- I would be more favorable, put it that way, as long as he met our specifications, so
that when we do sewer out there, all you have to do is just hook in. But being a
developer and we have no control over that, I mean if it -- if it don't pencil out for him,
he's not going to do it, and we are going to get maybe a substandard sewer system to
hook into, or we will have to go back in there and redo it all. That's my one concern and
I am definitely not for letting United Water in any of our area of impact.
Watson: Madam Mayor, if -- I hate to prolong this, but if you'd like us to get together
with Mr. Wood and investigate some sort of arrangement about sewer and how that
Meridian City Council
June 7, 2005
Page 27 of 56
plan review would occur and maybe some cost arrangements on extension of water
line, I'm more than willing to do that. I know he's got a sense urgency to get this
developed, but we have got time. He may not have time, but I am more than willing to
meet with him and talk about some of those things if you would like us to.
De Weerd: Well, we meet again in two weeks. Would that give you some time to come
back and update Council?
Watson: Madam Mayor, we will be -- I will be out of town with some of you next week
and I have a week of vacation scheduled after that.
Donnell: Oh, you can't go on vacation. Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: Vacation?
Watson: Finally.
Donnell: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Donnell.
Donnell: And, Frank, please don't publish this, but I think it's time for the Council to get
off the pot.
Bird: I agree with you.
Donnell: I think we need to make a decision one way or the other and not bring staff
back again for -- to have them wrestle through these same issues. So, having said
that --
De Weerd: You could have cut bait.
Donnell: I liked the sewer comment better. Don't you report that. So, having said that, I
would make a motion that we instruct staff to go forward with option B, which is the
extension of sanitary sewer and domestic water to Black Rock and I guess we will find
some way to pay for it.
De Weerd: We have a motion on the floor to approve Item B. Do I have a second?
Okay. That motion would die for lack of a second. Or fails. It doesn't go anywhere.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Meridian City Council
June 7, 2005
Page 28 of 56
Rountree: I'll make a motion, but I need an answer from Mr. Wood, if you don't mind.
What's the criticality of a decision timing wise? I know you wanted it a couple of months
ago, but --
Wood: The sooner the better, but, obviously, I want to -- I want to see it be a Meridian
subdivision.
Rountree: You're already selling lots.
Wood: No. We--
Rountree: Close.
Wood: We are giving information, but we are not doing anything more than that. Too
much of a nightmare.
Rountree: And are you willing to explore public-private partnerships on both these kinds
of systems that we need in terms of you're willing to commit some of your resources to
make it happen?
Wood: Definitely. We would be more than happy to do that.
Rountree: Okay. And I'm not going to commit you to an amount, but you're already
committed, so -- Madam Mayor, I'm going to move that along the lines of what the
Public Works director has just indicated, that the city direct staff to work with the
applicant to explore a public-private partnership that would address either the extension
of or development of a domestic water supply for this potential future subdivision and
that they further work through the design specifications for an internal to the subdivision
sewage treatment facility that could ultimately be gravity fed into the ultimate extension
of sewer -- Meridian sewer trunk lines and not committing to a date certain of when that
hook-up might take place.
Bird: Before I second that, have you got a time limit to come back for Mr. Woods? A
time limit, give it a month?
Rountree: I have no time limit in that it's a matter of coordinating between the staff and
Mr. Woods as far as the development goes.
De Weerd: Okay. We have a motion on the floor. Please don't ask me to repeat it.
Bird: Before I second that, I want to know what he said. I'll second it.
De Weerd: Okay. So, we have a motion and a second to approve item A with the
stipulation of the public-private partnership and the details would come back to Council
at a later date.
Meridian City Council
June 7,2005
Page 29 of 56
Wardle: Item A or Item B?
Bird: Item B.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I guess a point of clarification. It would be item option B. I
would add to that motion if there is no ability to reach consensus or agreement, that the
city final ultimate solution would be Item C -- option C., Upon not reaching consensus.
De Weerd: Okay.
Rountree: To deal with this issue and get something done.
Donnell: Madam Mayor, before we take a vote, Councilman Rountree, if you hadn't of
added that last part on there I would have supported your notion, but at this point in
going to option C, I can't support that, so just to let you know. I liked it to begin with.
Rountree: You can make an amended motion.
Donnell: I wouldn't even dare try.
De Weerd: Any further discussion? And I guess I would -- oh, not comment. Mr. Berg,
will you, please, call roll?
Roll-Call: Bird, nay; Rountree, yea; Wardle, nay; Donnell, nay.
MOTION FAILS: ONE AYE. THREE NAYS.
De Weerd: Okay. It's an interesting evening. Do I have another attempt?
Donnell: Mr. Rountree, don't you want to make that motion again?
Rountree: For discussion, I don't mind making the motion again, minus the alternative,
but it seems to me that if we don't reach consensus, we need to have a solution. So,
where do we go?
Donnell: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Donnell.
Donnell: And, Councilman Rountree, I would agree, I think that we have to have some
kind of -- somewhere to go, but I think, then, we cross that -- we cross the bridge then.
And at this point right now at least we can get them going and begin to have some kind
of resolution to this and if that doesn't happen, then, it comes back to us and at that
point, then, we look at our options again.
Meridian City Council
June 7,2005
Page 30 of 56
De Weerd: So, the added on, instead of item C, would be that it would come back to
Council for further discussion.
Bird: The motion was -- his original motion -- excuse me. His original motion covered
that, basically, if they had an impasse it would come back to -- it would come back to us
automatically.
Donnell: Right.
De Weerd: Okay.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I will amend my original motion by striking the reference to if
no consensus is reached that it would move forward with option C, that if no consensus
is reached that it comes back before the Council and that would be on the July 12th
regularly scheduled meeting.
Donnell: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I don't need you to amend it, but just in the motion, since the other
one failed, so -- okay. The motion is to do what Councilmember Rountree said the first
time, but without the condition, and to come back on July 12th if it doesn't -- if all the
details can't be worked out. Correct.
Donnell: Yes.
De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Berg, will you call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, nay; Donnell, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE NAY.
Berg: Madam Mayor, if I just could ask -- do you want me to tentatively put that on the
agenda for the 12th or would you like a report back from Brad saying it's worked out or
-- I don't want to --
De Weerd: Let's have a report on the 12th.
Berg: Okay. I just don't want it to fall through and you don't know what's going on.
Thank you.
Item 10:
FP 05-033 Request for Final Plat approval of 78 single-family residential
building lots and 12 common lots on 24.12 acres in a R-8 zone for Cedar
Sprinas Subdivision No.8 (preliminary platted as Cedar Springs
North) by Howell-Murdoch Development Corporation - south of McMillan
Road and west of Meridian Road:
Meridian City Council
June 7,2005
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Item 11:
FP 05-034 Request for Final Plat approval for 43 single-family residential
building lots, 1 school lot, 3 office lots and 6 common lots on 34.79 acres
in an R-4 zone for Bridaetower Crossina Subdivision No. 12 by
Primeland Development, LLP - south of McMillan Road and east of Ten
Mile Road:
Item 12:
TE 05-003 Request for approval of a one-year time extension to file the
final plat for McNelis Subdivision by Engineering Solutions, LLP -
northwest corner of West Ustick Road and North Ten Mile Road:
Item 13:
TE 05-004 Request for approval of a one-year time extension to record
the final plat for Bridaetower Crossina Subdivision No.7 by
Engineering Solutions, LLP - southeast corner of North Ten Mile Road
and McMillan Road:
De Weerd: Okay. Item 10, FP 05-003. I will start the discussion with Mr. Hawkins-Clark.
Hawkins-Clark: Madam Mayor, if it pleases the Council, if I could just give a quick
summary on Item 10 and 11 and 12 and 13, they are all different projects, but staff has
received letters back from the applicants for Cedar Springs Subdivision No.8 and
Bridgetower Crossing No. 12. The response from the applicant in both cases is that they
agree with staff's final plat conditions. On Items 12 and 13, both of those time
extensions, we have reviewed and they have got their request in prior to the expiration
of both, so staff's also recommending approval of both those items. So, I don't know if
the attorney needs to comment, if it's possible to just include that as one motion or not,
but that's a pretty easy staff report on the next four items.
De Weerd: Thank you. We appreciate that.
Nary: It seems like a great idea to me.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move that we approve Items 10, 11, 12 and 13.
Bird: Second.
Rountree: Subject to staff comments.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: It's been moved to approve Items 10 through 13. Mr. Berg, will you, please,
call roll.
Meridian City Council
June 7. 2005
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Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Donnell, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 14:
Public Hearing:
Department:
Justice Assistance Grant with Meridian Police
De Weerd: Public Hearing on Item 14. I will open this Public Hearing for the Justice
Assistance Grant with the Meridian Police Department, with comments from Captain
Overton.
Overton: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I'd like to bring your attention to a
very exciting Justice Assistance Grant. It's actually exciting for two reasons. One, we
may actually get it, and, two, we almost lost this opportunity. We got it the very last
minute. This Justice Assistance Grant is a new process the federal government is doing
in which it is a total online system -- in fact, they will not accept this grant in an e-mail
form or in mail. This grant began in January of 2005 and closed officially March 31st. Of
course, we weren't notified about the grant until April 20th. Now, I say April 20th at
12:19 p.m., because I was given about 24 hours to begin this grant process or we lost it.
In fact, they apologized and, then, they told me I had 24 hours to begin it. In this grant
we are not trying to achieve money for a project with the term funds not yet determined.
In this case we are allocated, the City of Meridian, 12,012 dollars based on a formula
that is designed by the federal government based off our type one-felony crimes and
our population. This money passes straight through the state system directly to the city
and it's allocated for our use. The specifics of the programs are law enforcement
prevention and education programs, drug programs. With very little time to put this
together, we looked at the needs we had previously. Now, I have sat before this Council
a couple of times in the past few years graciously asking for approval for grants, which
you have given me, and one of those grants last year was for an anti-drug coordinator
position. Again, it was a grant we did not get. In this case we did get approval on our
last year's budget, FY 2005, to get a part-time anti-drug coordinator for the city that
works out of the police department. What we are proposing in this grant request is that
funding to actually support that half-time position that we now have in our police
department. We are looking at using the 12,012 dollars in such a fashion, budgeting in
such a way that we use 2,500 for training for this person, 2,000 for equipment and
supplies, 5,500 for printing, binding, educational and prevention materials and
pamphlets and the 2,012 for miscellaneous operating expenses tied to the education
and prevention programs. This is not a matching program. We don't have to put up any
money along with the federal money. It does not require that. We did have to complete
our application prior to coming before this Council and I need to be up front with you on
that, because of the very short amount of time they gave us. In so doing they allowed us
to submit that application online prior to coming to a public hearing before this board
and the public. My request tonight is for your approval to continue to proceed with this
grant request for the 12,012 dollars for the listed areas for our anti-drug coordinator
position and answer I'll any questions if you have any at this time.
Meridian City Council
June 7, 2005
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De Weerd: Council, do you have any questions for Captain Overton?
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: None.
De Weerd: Is there anyone in the public who would like to testify on this application?
Thank you. I appreciate your tenacity with us and I probably almost failed, because I
couldn't figure out how to do the electronic signature. I'm not technically inclined, so --
do I have a motion?
Wardle: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Actually, we could close the public hearing.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move that we close the Public Hearing on Item No. 14.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Wardle: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: First I'd like to thank Captain Overton for his quick action and attention in
bringing this forward. I think it's a wonderful program and assists in our attempts to
educate and really matches up with what we are doing in departments, so with that I
would move that we approve -- do you need an approval to proceed with the grant?
Overton: Correct.
Wardle: Okay. Move that we approve in proceeding with the grant for the -- the Justice
Assistance Grant for our anti-drug coordinator in the sum of 12,012 dollars.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. The motion is to approve the request on Item 14. Mr. Berg, will you
call roll?
Meridian City Council
June 7, 2005
Page 34 of 56
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Donnell, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Overton: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, thank you.
Item 15:
Public Hearing: VAC 05-004 Request for a Vacation of platted
easements for Krispy Kreme Subdivision by Eagle-Fairview Investment
Co., LLC - Lot 1 of the Krispy Kreme Subdivision:
De Weerd: Item 15 is Public Hearing VAC 05-004. I will open this Public Hearing with
staff comments.
Hawkins-Clark: Thank you, Mayor, Members of the Council. The item before you is a
request for a utility easement vacation in the Krispy Kreme Subdivision. It's zoned light
industrial. This is the area of the plat here and the easement that they are proposing to
vacate is between Lots 3 and 4, I believe. The Planning and Zoning Commission did
recommend approval of this. We have received relinquishment letters from all the
utilities that have any interest in this easement. The reason is simply to allow the
developer the option to have more flexibility in developing the site. The Planning and
Zoning Commission did recommend approval and the staff does as well.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you, Brad. Is the applicant here? Do you care to make any
comment? No comment. Is there anyone else who would like to provide testimony on
this application? Okay. Council?
Wardle: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: With that I move that we close the Public Hearing on Item 15.
Donnell: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. The motion is to close the Public Hearing Item 15. All those in favor
say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Meridian City Council
June 7, 2005
Page 35 of 56
Bird: I move we approve VAC 05-004 and incorporate staff comments and to pass the
Findings of Facts, Conclusions of Law, and Decision of Order also.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. The motion --
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Nary.
Nary: Just as a note, on all the vacations you will simply receive a resolution back
approving that vacation and that will be recorded, so there is no findings in all of that.
De Weerd: Okay.
Nary: But you will see the resolution as the final action. I'm sorry. Just to make it clear.
De Weerd: So, the motion would be to prepare a resolution?
Nary: Yes.
De Weerd: Okay. Is that okay with the motion maker?
Bird: Perfect.
De Weerd: And the second?
Rountree: Sure.
De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Berg, will you call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Donnell, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 16:
Public Hearing: VAC 05-005 Request for a Vacation of a portion of a 20-
foot utility easement between Lots 20 & 21, Block 1, Stokesberv
Subdivision No.2 by Properties West, Inc. - west of North Eagle Road
and north of River Valley Street:
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Public Hearing Item 16, VAC 05-005. Brad.
Hawkins-Clark: Thank you. Similar to the previous item, this request is for a vacation of
a portion of a 20 utility easement in Stokesberry Subdivision there on the half mile
between Fairview and Ustick on the west side of Eagle Road. This previously platted
Meridian City Council
June 7, 2005
Page 36 of 56
subdivision, the one condition that we had that staff was to receive before this meeting,
a consent from the business owners association. We had not received that consent
prior to the Planning and Zoning Commission, but yesterday we did receive that and we
asked for that, essentially, because they do have an interest as the owners here, Mr.
John Barnes did give us that notarized consent. So, we have what we asked for and the
Planning and Zoning Commission also recommended approval.
De Weerd: Thank you, Brad. Would the applicant care to comment? Is the applicant
here? Okay. The applicant is here and has no comment, unless there is questions from
Council. Is there any further testimony on this application? Okay. Council, any
information needed?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we close the Public Hearing for Item 16.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. The motion is to close 16. All those in favor say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we approve VAC 05-005 and have the attorney draw up a resolution
showing so.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. The motion is to approve Item 16. If there is no further discussion,
Mr. Berg, will you call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Donnell, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 17:
Public Hearing: CUP 05-017 Request for a Conditional Use Permit to
construct 7 office buildings in a previously approved Planned Unit
Development of Lot 6, Block 1 of Resolution Subdivision No.1 for
Saaecrest Subdivision by Larry Sundell - south of East Overland Road
and east of South Locust Grove Road:
Meridian City Council
June 7,2005
Page 37 of 56
De Weerd: Thank you. Item 17 is Public Hearing CUP 05-017. I'll open the Public
Hearing with staff comments.
Hawkins-Clark: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. This application is
for a Conditional Use Permit for seven office buildings. This is an area that you're most
familiar with. The Sagecrest apartments have come before you and are mostly
constructed today in the same area. Resolution Subdivision was approved for the entire
area several years ago. This application is proposing this layout here. We have one
building -- this is Overland Road at the top of the screen, with this existing entrance and
the parking lot are constructed already. The application is for the -- essentially, for the
building elevations and the building locations. It is proposed as a single development in
terms of a theme with the architecture, et cetera. One of the main issues at the Planning
and Zoning Commission on this project -- and I'll just bring up the next slide, which is
the existing recorded plat, and you will note that up here on the -- in the northeast
corner there are two platted lots. This is the parking lot common area here and, then,
south of that also two platted lots and, then, there are five platted lots on the south, so --
but they are only proposing three buildings in this area where there were five lots and,
then, where there are two platted lots here and two platted lots here, they are also just
proposing one building. So, the issue here is that the property is zoned limited office, L-
0, and the L-O does require side setbacks, five-foot side building setbacks. So, in order
to construct across a lot line, those lots need to be, essentially, combined or there
needs to be another plat submitted and recorded. Mr. Sundell, who is representing
them, both at the Commission and here tonight, testified at the Commission that they
would like to proceed with a couple of these buildings without -- you know, in order to
adjust these lot lines or to get these buildings that are crossing lot lines to be able to
proceed. Staff doesn't see any way currently in the ordinance that that's an option. The
Unified Development Code that you heard earlier today does allow at staff level lot
combination and that would be a fairly straightforward process, but, obviously, that's not
an option to them until you adopt the UDC. So, I think that really kind of highlights the
main point of difference on this item. Strong support for the building elevations, which
here is a general view of the site and, then, front and rear and side elevations are
shown here. So, you know, staff has strong support for the project. It does combine well
with some of the other architectural themes that we see in Resolution further to the east,
but we, under the current ordinance, are just unable to figure out a way to get those
buildings to be able to move forward. They do, obviously, have the ability to construct
the two -- the two buildings that are on Lots 1 and 3, since those are single platted lots
today and they are just asking for single buildings on those. The problem lies in the
other areas of the plat. You have received Findings of Facts and the Decision and Order
in your packet tonight, with all of the exhibits and the way that it's worded in Exhibit C,
which is the conditions, is that prior to us issuing a certificate of zoning compliance for
any structure on those lots I just talked about, they have to either reduce the number of
build-able lots or propose buildings that -- that meet the minimum building setback.
That's the way it's -- the condition's worded. That's number three on Exhibit C. And with
that I think I will end staff comments.
Meridian City Council
June 7, 2005
Page 38 of 56
De Weerd: Questions for staff? Council? Okay. Would the applicant like to make any
comment? If you will, please, state your name and address. .
Sundell: Yes. I'm Larry Sundell, I'm the architect for the owner, which is Edge, LLC, and
we really just have the singular issue, which is the lot line adjustment and if you did look
at previous ones, the way the project was initially laid out when the owner purchased
the property, it is that it allowed for -- you see five, six, seven, eight, nine -- you can
build 1,500 square foot offices on it and it wasn't logical that people would want a
freestanding 1,500 square foot offices. At that point they would really become a tenant
in a larger complex. And so I was asked to cross over the property lines and design a
building that would be in the 4,000 or 3,000 square foot range that was more logical for
the owner's desires. We recognize now after going through with the Planning and
Zoning people that we are up against -- we have two different decisions -- ways that we
can approach this. We were given the decision that we could have it re-platted and that
takes in the five or six month time range and just for the erasure of lines between them
when there are no easements seemed excessive. The second item was the potential
law adjustment where the lot adjustment, at which time it was to take three months. So,
our gamble was do we wait the three months and hope the law passes and if it doesn't,
then, we go back and we have to go through the five-month process. So, so far it's been
our contention that we would gamble on that we would go that the law would pass for
staff level lot line adjustment. However, in doing this, in the Planning and Zone, I
suppose, in a way felt sorry for us, because we were trapped by what was the law and
they hoped to erase that or to make amendments so that this could be something that
would be very easy to accomplish. Thus it would -- excuse me. It would be my request
that we would be allowed to build one of the buildings, because they have had a tenant
for that building since February and when I go through the time line on the development
side, it became very frustrating. So, on Lots 54 and 55 they have had a tenant since
February and we would like the ability to build a 3,100 square foot building on that and
at which time all of the remainder of those we would wait out the law of the lot line
adjustment.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council --
Sundell: Excuse me. It was also my understanding -- I asked staff about this, Mr. Craig
Hood, and he mentioned that this was something that had been done before. I don't
know the example of that, but he mentioned that to me, so you wouldn't be venturing
into new territory.
De Weerd: Thank you
Bird: I have none, Mayor.
De Weerd: I guess to our city attorney, are there other options here that can be
considered? How -- I believe we have done this before. Why is this different from those
than it is here and how can we accommodate this request?
Meridian City Council
June 7, 2005
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Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I guess maybe Mr. Hawkins-Clark could
remind us what has he said we did before, waive the lot line requirement? Just did it at
a staff level?
Sundell: It was my understanding that you authorized the building department to review
the project and I'm not sure of the details after that. He just mentioned to me that it was
something that had been done before and that's as far as the conversation went.
De Weerd: Mr. Hawkins-Clark?
Hawkins-Clark: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I do not know what that
example would be. I didn't talk to Craig about that. The planned development ordinance
does allow for exceptions to dimensional standards. However, an applicant needs to
formally request that, so that we can put that into our noticing, so that everyone knows
they are proposing to eliminate the side setback and I don't believe that was noticed this
way.
Sundell: It was my understanding we looked at that option, but we still had to maintain
a legal lot. In other words, we couldn't move the lot line over, so that there would be a
one foot piece, because we still have to have a legal lot that was left. So, we couldn't do
that either. Just on the developer's side, it was frustrating in time, because it was
submitted with the tenant ready to go on February 15th and we were heard -- I
understand Meridian is very busy now, so we were heard on May 7th and it's now June
5th and, then, we have an additional three months or five months, plus another month
and a half at the building department and so it was -- I was expressing the owner's
frustration.
De Weerd: Thank you. I can understand that.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Nary.
Nary: I guess to answer your question; I don't think there is another alternative. I mean
when they -- when they bought this property or filed this application, really, the
ordinance that's in place at the time is what governs, not what might change three
months from now or five months from now or anything else. What -- they have platted
lots, they know the lots existed at the time, they can't build buildings across the platted
lot lines, they all know that, so they have to ask to readjust the plat to do that. I
recognize it does take awhile to do that, but I mean that's -- that's the nature of the
game. They know that when they buy it. So, there isn't really an alternative. It sounds to
me that planning has really tried to come up with whatever alternative exists, but there
really isn't one. That was the alternative. You know, they probably should have done
that. I mean that's not much help now, but that would have been the right thing to do,
because you can't really rely on the City Council to pass the law somehow timely that
will affect you in a positive way. The law that exists when you file it is what matters.
Meridian City Council
June 7, 2005
Page 40 of 56
De Weerd: Okay. Why is this a CUP, then?
Nary: Why is this a CUP?
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Nary: I think it's because of the adjustment of the building in relation to the lots that
exist.
Sundell: This was a small portion of a large project that had two portions of it
earmarked out for commercial development or limited office development. It was at that
time that it was decided that each of these would have to go through the conditional use
process and they had already agreed on the use and the lots, so it just seemed
redundant to do what we had to do.
Hawkins-Clark: Madam Mayor, yeah, that's correct, just in other -- in other words, that's
correct, the conceptual Conditional Use Permit was granted in '99 to 2000 and that if
you only get a conceptual Conditional Use Permit, the ordinance says you have to do a
detailed Conditional Use Permit later. This is now later.
De Weerd: Okay. Well, thank you. Okay. Is there anyone else who would like to provide
testimony on this application? Okay. Council?
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I have a question for Mr. Nary. Is there any way that the
processes can be run parallel? In other words, if the applicant, in good faith, initiates or
maybe already has initiated a plat amendment, is there an action that the Council can
make based on that as it relates to either a short variance on the ordinance one time,
for instance, or --
Nary: Well, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Councilmember Rountree, I guess
I would caution on a variance if that's the reason, because I think the hardship is really
self-imposed and that's probably not the best remedy to fix that. The process now -- I
mean if -- at this juncture I think -- and Brad can correct me if I'm wrong -- without the
amendment to allow the staff to amend the lot lines, the adjustments that he's asking
for, he still needs to do a new plat. The process for that does take awhile, I understand
that, with all the engineering and the like. If he wants to gamble that -- as Mr. Sundell
indicated was that they were gambling that the ordinance that would be passed by the
UDC, would be passed in time, but before you saw it. Now, if that was before you, if
that's the way the ordinance had changed and they had asked me does it apply, my
answer would be, no, it doesn't apply, because what applies is what exists when you file
it. But I understand that the Council might be inclined to say we have changed our
ordinance and will, therefore, allow you to, essentially, transfer that application under
our new ordinance and not pay a new fee and we will consider it that. That would make
some sense. Legally its probably not necessary, but it would certainly make some
sense. At this juncture I think that's kind of where Mr. Sundell is left with. He could build
Meridian City Council
June 7, 2005
Page 41 of 56
the buildings that are within the platted lot lines and that are already existing. That's why
the CUP is here. If he wants to build it differently, then, he can wait and hope that the
Council will approve that ordinance which will allow and direct staff to review this
application in light of that, otherwise, he needs to replat the property. Again, they bought
it with it platted that way, it wasn't like a big surprise, that's the way it looked when they
bought it, when they designed the buildings for it, they knew they had to fit in those
boxes, otherwise, they'd have to do a redraw.
De Weerd: Does that answer your question?
Rountree: Sure. It did.
De Weerd: Okay.
Rountree: Question in terms of process, Madam Mayor. As far as the ordinance, we will
hear that on -- what was the date we specified? The 19th?
De Weerd: Of July.
Rountree: Of July. As soon as those --
De Weerd: I don't think we had a day --
Rountree: Or did we have a day?
De Weerd: -- they were supposed to bring it back in --
Rountree: Or to bring it back in two weeks.
De Weerd: And then set the schedule.
Rountree: So, that's the soonest it would be is the 19th of July. but, you know, I'm just -
- that's pushing it. I'm just trying to get a sense of when we might have approval of this
ordinance. .
Wardle: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: While we are talking about the ordinance, that's -- that's assuming what you
have -- or not assuming, but that would be for a first hearing, first public hearing, and
given the magnitude of the project may require more. So, just to -- or of the ordinance
itself.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
Meridian City Council
June 7, 2005
Page 42 of 56
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: And, really, if we pass the ordinance, our legal counsel just said that -- that, you
know, what was actually in place when they applied was the existing ordinance that we
have got done, which would go to it. We have -- and I hope you can remember, Mayor,
because I think you were on the Council -- we have -- Craig's right, we have done this --
I can't think of what project and I can't think of how we worded it, but we have done it,
allowed them to cross the lot lines and build and -- but they have to have the application
for the new plat going, too. But there was some way we did that. Do you remember,
Mayor?
De Weerd: I don't recall what --
Bird: I don't recall the project, I just -- I remember doing it.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: But, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Councilmember Bird remembers
these a lot better than I usually do. The only one that I can think of in recent memory
that we were very flexible from the city and the Council's direction to staff was in EI
Dorado and Silverstone, because -- and Fairview Lakes, because we had -- we had no
set lot lines and so they came forward with the project and, then, basically, the plat
forward that matched the lot, because it was all very fluid. Now, maybe I'm wrong, Brad,
maybe I'm mixing up the projects, but I think that was the one that -- that I can recall, at
least, that -- that the city said we will let you build -- we will direct the staff to issue the
building permit based on this -- based on this footprint, but you're going to have to bring
that plat back with that same footprint and those setbacks and everything else. Now,
maybe I'm dreaming of that, too. Brad, do you recall that?
Hawkins-Clark: We may all be dreaming. I don't know. No. I think that's definitely
correct on Fairview Lakes. I mean I think the big difference is that the commercial zones
in Meridian don't have required side setbacks and this is an office zone and it does have
a required side setback. So, we are talking about two different zones.
De Weerd: That's true.
Bird: Yeah. When we -- excuse me, Madam Mayor. When we annexed and zoned this
and everything, this was office -- was zoned office. You're right. That is a difference.
Okay.
De Weerd: I thought it was a PUD. Does that mean that this is L-O?
Hawkins-Clark: On this project?
Meridian City Council
June 7, 2005
Page 43 of 56
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Hawkins-Clark: It doesn't necessarily mean that, no. I mean you could have a planned
development in any zone. But in this case they did a conceptual overall, you know,
where they had the ice-skating rink and they had the apartments and there was a lot of
different things with this project. It was -- but it doesn't look anything like the concept
today. But, unfortunately, at that time, since they didn't really know what was going to
happen, we said, well, we want to see detailed conditional use permits in the future. So,
they did do a planned development. But the zoning hasn't ever changed from when they
annexed. It is commercial at the corner of Locust and Overland, just to the west of this.
De Weerd: Okay. Council?
Rountree: Wouldn't it be quicker to change -- request for a zoning change?
De Weerd: No. They haven't closed it. I guess Councilman Rountree asked if it would
be more -- if it could be expedited by requesting a rezone. Is the process the same?
About the same.
Hawkins-Clark: I mean the difference is, of course, as compared to a plat it would
certainly save them about four months. It would be -- it wouldn't be much faster, but if
you think about it in terms of the Unified Development Code and the time frame that
you're under, it's probably about the same, because we could -- certainly with your
direction to us we will work with them to expedite a rezone application, we are happy to
do that, but we do still have the 30 day requirement notice, et cetera. And if they did
rezone it, that would take away the requirement for that interior side setbacks, but it's
still going to be three months or maybe two and three-quarters or something, if we --
Nary: Madam Mayor, wouldn't the rezone have to go back to the Planning and Zoning
Commission? So, I mean right now their schedule is pretty full. I couldn't imagine they
would be able to get that on their agenda even until at least -- well, they would be lucky
if it was the 1 st of August. It would probably be the second meeting in August before
they would hear it, which means you wouldn't see it again until the end of September.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Well, I'll ask either Brad or Mr. Nary, either one of them. What -- what legally can
we do with the restrictions that would help this? I mean we are talking about -- and
don't get me wrong, the owner when he bought it knew he was -- knew what he was up
against. He should have, you know -- now he's asking us to bail him out. But he's got a
client that's been there since February and what I -- all these scenarios I keep hearing --
next February he might see his building started up, if he's still with us, if he doesn't
move to the west or east. What can we do as a Council? I mean I don't want to set this
as a precedent or anything like that, but evidently Planning and Zoning approved it with
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June 7, 2005
Page 44 of 56
the conditions. Can we -- what kind of conditions and stuff can we put on that we -- that
the city is safe and we are not setting a precedence? If there is any.
De Weerd: Well, who wants to tackle that, Bill or Brad?
Bird: I don't care. Whichever one of them wants to answer.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I guess I'll take the first stab at it. The
problem that you have is you have an established plat with lot lines on it. If you waive
those without going through the proper process, you will have set a precedent. You
have lots of developers that would love the ability to come and build a building in a
different way and not have to go through that process. The UDC will probably address
that most of the time, but that may not be the fix all to everything and you will have set
that standard that once you file the plat and you have recorded that, that those lot lines
may not necessarily apply anymore without the process. I guess that's a risk that you
have. I know you would like to grant this one time exception, but I don't know that we --
there is no -- again, there is no hardship here that you could really articulate that's any
different than anybody else would have. It's not -- it doesn't work out very well and they
got -- they have got a client that wants a building bigger than the lot that they own, but
that's not really a hardship that you're going to be able to justify to anybody else to not
be in the same boat. Right now, like I said, it would appear the UDC may resolve some
of those things, but -- and yet we don't know that for sure. So, I just I guess want to be
cautious for the Council to not end up doing something you're regretting later, when it
just seems to be a nice way to make this go away. And, Brad, I don't know if you have
anything else to add to that.
Hawkins-Clark: No, I don't. I mean I would agree, but I was just sitting here looking at
the plat and the limited office has a 7,000 square foot minimum and I guess I'm just
wondering maybe if Mr. Sundell had thought about this. I mean you have -- if the goal is
to just get one building, the person that seems to be most interested -- I mean can --
could do lot line adjustments to shift these. Granted, we can't eliminate any of these five
lots, but you could still lot line adjust them, which is only a three week process, create --
as long as none of these go below 7,000 square feet, you could still create one lot that
may be -- you know, that is wide enough to accommodate the building. So, I guess I --
that's the only option that I can think of. I don't see why that wouldn't work.
De Weerd: Thank you, Brad. Do you have any comment, Mr. Sundell?
Sundell: Yes. I was wondering if the Council would have the authority to allow the
building department review the project without the CZC in place and when that catches
up would actually issue the permit.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Mr. Sundell, so you're asking the
building department to review it, not issue a building permit --
Meridian City Council
June 7, 2005
Page 45 of 56
Sundell: That's correct.
Nary: -- wait until --
Sundell: The CZC is received. Well, the CZ -- the certificate of zoning -- the zoning
certificate or whatever it's called.
Nary: I think that's -- I guess I think that's what we are discussing is that right now they
can't do that, because of the particular location they want to build this building and what
the setback requirements are. And, like I said, the UDC may not technically apply, but
this Council can certainly direct the staff to consider it a new application, waive the fees,
do all of that I don't know when that's going to happen. That might be October. Are you
just wanting that to make sure they review that and so in October if the UDC passes
and the staff grants your request, you can start your construction, then? Because I
think -- I guess to be clear for the record, I think what Mr. Hawkins-Clark was saying
was if you change the location of the building, you wouldn't have the same requirements
and they would be able to do that. That's not something that's workable and -- if I
understand him correctly. You're just talking about--
Sundell: Specifics to start putting into the lots to keep moving them off to the left until
one of them has enough space to do that. It doesn't have the square footage on them. I
thought maybe it would. Fifty by eighty -- 45 -- what, 80 isn't even a legal lot, is it? I
could work with staff to see if there is a way that those could be moved over enough
that we could construct the one structure that they have a tenant for. It was a quandary
for me to know which way to do it, as to wait for the law to pass that might not pass, or
to start a plat process that would take five to six months. That's my own quandary, I
guess.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I'm totally confused at this point, so I'll just run through what I
think I heard. The client -- your client has -- is interested in building a building that would
occupy Lots 54 and 55.
Sundell: That's correct.
Rountree: So, we are not talking about those lots to the west of the access road. At this
point --
Sundell: That's correct.
Rountree: -- they are not the ones in question. Madam Mayor, if I could follow up with
Brad. He suggested that there is a three-week process that can deal with a lot
adjustment. What are the strings attached to that?
Hawkins-Clark: Councilman, that's just preparation of a record of survey, submit a one
page application to our department with that record of survey that shows how the plat
lays today and, then, where the new line -- the adjusted lines would be.
Meridian City Council
June 7, 2005
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Rountree: So, in this particular case, really, the only lot line that's in question is that
between Lot 45 and 55, if that line were to be shifted either to the east or the west and
divide that into two lots, one of them being a landscape easement lot in order for them
to center a building on one or the other lot numbers, would that be consistent with the
lot line adjustment or are we hampered by some other square footage requirement?
Hawkins-Clark: I guess where I'm confused, I would have to go back to the original
approval, because these lots are already substandard compared to our L-O zone. I
mean the L-O standard is 7,000 and these are, obviously, below. So, I don't know how
small they can go. That's the critical question. I'm assuming that the original planned
development said, you know, they still couldn't go below a certain size. That's why I had
suggested, if it's at all an option for his client, to consider shifting over to the west side.
Rountree: My suggestion is that we look at one of those lots as a landscape lot, which
we would typically have in a PUD that would become part of the landscape area that
would ultimately be owned and operated and cared for by the association of folks that
would be in the ultimate subdivision.
Hawkins-Clark: Oh. I see. Yeah. The ordinance standards wouldn't -- for the lot line
adjustment -- you have to retain two buildable lots. You can't convert one of them to a --
Rountree: Just looking for avenues here.
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: Madam Mayor, if I could interrupt here real quick and certainly I feel sympathy
for the applicant and the client. I don't want to make a habit of engineering applicant's
projects at the public hearing stage. My opinion is I like the layout of the office. Staff
feels strongly about the buildings and the viability of the office up front. We have got
some options that the staff is certainly willing to work with and I think the direction from
Council is that if we can find a way to make it work within our current ordinance and our
zone, let's do it, work with the lot lines and we have got a potential square footage issue
and so that would be my direction to staff and if we all agree that we like that elevation,
let's move forward to that and we can take care of the majority of this, hopefully, with
some revisions in the code.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: So, Mr. Wardle, do you want to continue this until the staff and the applicant and --
or do you want -- do you want to pass on it now or --
Wardle: No. Here is my suggestion. If we agree with the office buildings and the
elevation and their location, which is really what's before us today, then, we can
Meridian City Council
June 7,2005
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approve that with the condition that once the site is ready for a CZC, in some manner, if
the. staff can be creative enough to find that through some movement of lines, keep
them within our standard, then, they can make that determination at staff level. We are
being asked to make that. All we are being asked to do is to approve building elevations
and their conformance within the zone. Is that correct, Mr. Nary?
Nary: I think -- I was trying to follow you, Mr. Wardle. I think that's probably --
Wardle: We can approve this -- we can approve this application and when the property
itself is ready, through whichever means the applicant and the staff work out, they could
pull that.
Nary: Councilmember Rountree -- or Councilmember Wardle, that is correct, you can
approve the project that the application is in front of you. The issue -- the only rub is
what they want to build doesn't exactly fit. But, yes, you're right, if they can make it fit,
that will work out.
Rountree: Through appropriate lot line adjustments.
Nary: Correct.
De Weerd: Okay.
Sundell: Okay. There was just one comment is that the staff said that these were
substandard lots and that is really what has driven this, is that the lots in the plat, 4,200
square feet and the normal lot is 6,000 square feet. And that's what started this process.
Thank you very much.
Rountree: Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Donnell: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Donnell.
Donnell: I'd like to make a motion to close the Public Hearing.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. The motion is to close the Public Hearing on Item 17. All those in
favor say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Do I have a motion on this item?
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June 7,2005
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Wardle: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: I move that we approve Item No. 17, CUP 05-017, and to approve the findings.
Donnell: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. Motion to approve Item 17. If there is no further discussion --
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: To the maker of the motion, does your motion include directing staff to work
with the applicant to look at potential lot line adjustments in order make this work?
Wardle: Yes, it does.
Rountree: Okay.
Wardle: And any other means that will facilitate the achieval of that within our
ordinances.
Rountree: Okay.
Donnell: Second agrees.
De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Berg, would you call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Donnell, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 18:
Public Hearing: CUP 05-016 Request for a Conditional Use Permit I
Planned Development for two buildings on one lot in an I-L zone for
Ferauson Enterprises by Ferguson Enterprises, Inc. - north of East
Franklin Road and west of Nola Road:
De Weerd: Okay. Item 18, Public Hearing CUP 05-016. I will open the Public Hearing
with staff comments.
Hawkins-Clark: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. This request is for
property on Nola. It's in between Nola and future Locust Grove Road, north of Union
Pacific Railroad, zoned light industrial. Let's see. Now that I'm looking at this, I think this
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June 7, 2005
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slide might actually be wrong, because it says Nola there, but I think Nola is actually on
this site, but -- so, we are talking north is Union Pacific. East Pine is here just two lots to
the north. If you have driven by there recently, you see they, eventually, already begun
some excavation work on the property. They have received one building permit. This is
an existing legal lot and it's eligible to pull that and they did do that, they got a certificate
of zoning compliance and construction is underway. The reasons you're seeing this is
because they are proposing two buildings -- two principal buildings on the same lot and
that is the reason that it's a Conditional Use Permit. Another thing that will go away with
the Unified Development Code, though, I should point out. So, here is their proposal.
This plan, actually, reflects the cul-de-sac, which does not exist today, but which is
proposed when Locust Grove Road is constructed. I believe that's an '07 project and
once that is punched through, Union Pacific Railroad does not allow grade crossings
near -- that close, so cul-de-sacs will be built there at the north and south sides of the
tracks. However, they will still be able to access from both Nola and Locust Grove in the
future. Planning and Zoning Commission -- there was no one in opposition. No
comments. Mark Kinghorn was the applicant's agent with Kinghorn Architecture, and
they presented the application. The only real point of discussion at that meeting had to
do with addressing and at that point they were requesting that the city provide them a
Locust Grove address. However, the -- Bruce Freckleton representing the Public Works
Department, said that really was not an option. He could not come up with a creative
way to address off of a street that doesn't exist yet. But they do have the option to
change their address in the future should they so choose. I think that was, really, the
main points. There is only, I think, really one change and that's Exhibit C. That's the
conditions of approval. The way that the second sentence is worded right now, staff
recommends that a seating area for employee and customer use would be an
appropriate amenity for the site. They do have more than ten percent landscaping and
we considered that an amenity. They are proposing -- I think they are in agreement that
some sitting area within the site for employees for lunches, events, et cetera, is an
appropriate thing and we thought that would be a good amenity, but the way that this is
worded it just says that it's recommended and I would suggest that you -- you just
change that to read that a seating area of employees shall be a second amenity for the
site, to actually make it a mandatory condition, instead of a recommendation. So, that's
the only change that we have.
De Weerd: Thank you, Brad. Is the applicant here? Would you like to provide
testimony? If Council has questions for the applicant, he's willing to come forward and
answer them. Council, do you have any questions for staff or the applicant?
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I have a question for the applicant. Are you in agreement with staff
comments?
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June 7, 2005
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De Weerd: He's indicated that he's in agreement with the comments.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move that we close the Public Hearing for Item No. 18.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move that we approve the Conditional Use Permit for Item No. 18, CUP 05-
016, subject to staff comments.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Did your motion include the recommendation by staff?
Rountree: Staff comments.
De Weerd: Okay. Just wanted to make sure that was clear. Okay. Any further
questions? Comments? Mr. Berg.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Donnell, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 19:
Public Hearing: CUP 05-018 Request to amend the existing Conditional
Use Permit / Planned Development to allow for a maximum building height
of 58~feet in a C-C zone for Lots 1 & 2 and the southern portion of Lot 9,
Block 5 for Marriott Courtyard at EI Dorado by BRS Architects - NWC of
East Tarpon Drive and South Eagle Road:
De Weerd: Okay. Item 19 is Public Hearing CUP 05-018. I will open the Public Hearing
with staff comments.
Hawkins-Clark: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. This application is
proposing a new Marriott Hotel in EI Dorado Bonito Subdivision on the two lots that are
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June 7, 2005
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outlined in black there. It's at the northeast corner of the site. This is a -- the site plan
that was submitted with their application. The access is proposed to be taken off of the
existing street system, not -- no new curb cuts or driveway accesses, et cetera, off of
Eagle Road. So, the building would actually be out near the landscape buffer. All the
parking north, south, and west of the site are of the building. Excuse me. Some of the
landscaping. The existing landscaping along Eagle Road is shown here and, then,
some of their other additional features. Here is an elevation that would be looking from
the north. A few more trees than what exists today, I think.
De Weerd: I wondered if that was over in the Seattle area.
Hawkins-Clark: This better shows the floor plan of the facility. A U-shaped building.
They are proposing a three -- three story -- or, I'm sorry, it is four story construction. the
Planning and Zoning Commission did not have any public comments. The main points
of discussion had to do with access and the applicant agreed with the staff conditions. I
believe that they are still in agreement with those and Findings have been prepared for
you tonight.
De Weerd: Okay. Did you have anything further, Brad?
Hawkins-Clark: I didn't. Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Any questions?
Bird: I have none, Mayor.
Rountree: None.
De Weerd: Well, Billy Ray, since you had to last this long --
Rountree: Get up here.
Strite: Billy Ray Strite, 1010 Allante, Boise, Idaho. Thank you very much, by the way. I
have no comments. Yes. Put it on the record, if you would, please. Thank you very
much. Unless you have questions.
De Weerd: We appreciate the landscaping. The elevation is beautiful.
Strite: Thank you. Yeah. Those trees are nice. They will probably be in my yard in the
wood pile before they get to that point. Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Meridian City Council
June 7, 2005
Page 52 of 56
Bird: If we don't have anymore, I move that we close the Public Hearing on CUP 05-
018.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. All in favor say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we approve CUP 05-018, include staff comment and pass on the Findings
of Facts, Conclusions of Law and Decision of Order.
Donnell: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. The motion is to approve Item 19. Mr. Berg, will you call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Donnell, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 20:
Public Hearing: VAR 05-011 Request for a Variance to allow a second
free-standing monument sign on the same street frontage for Kina
Electric Sians for King Electric Signs - 2200 South Cobalt Pointe Way:
De Weerd: Thank you so much, Mr. Strite. Okay. Item 20 is -- was not properly posted,
so it needs to --
Donnell: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: We don't -- no, we can't continue it, can we?
Donnell: We just table it.
Rountree: It has to be re-noticed.
De Weerd: So, Item 20 will need to be pulled and re-noticed for June 21 st. Is that
correct?
Hawkins-Clark: Madam Mayor, their letter requested a July date.
Bird: Okay.
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June 7, 2005
Page 53 of 56
De Weerd: Okay. Oh, really? And so when would be the appropriate time, Mr. Berg?
After appropriate noticing and all of that.
Berg: Do we have a date in July?
Hawkins-Clark: They would like it to be sometime in July.
Berg: Well, it just brings up another question. Are we meeting on July 5th?
Bird: I hope not.
Rountree: I thought we concluded at one point in time we weren't.
Donnell: I thought we did, too.
Bird: I did, too.
Berg: Thank you.
Rountree: We won't have a quorum anyway.
Berg: The 19th would be good.
Bird: Be fine with me.
De Weerd: Okay. So, we will re-notice it for July 19th. Okay. Okay. Anything further on
that item?
Item 21:
Amendment to Ordinance No. 04-1093 : RZ 04-007 Request for
a Rezone of 10.69 acres from R-4 to R-4, R-8 and L-O zones for Tiburon
Meadows Subdivision by Tiburon Meadows, LLC - 1450 and 1460 North
Ten Mile Road:
Item 22:
Ordinance No. 05-1154 : RZ 05-006 Request for a Rezone of
4.65 acres from R-4 to L-O zone for Verona Subdivision No.3 by
Primeland Development, LLP - northeast corner of North Ten Mile Road
and West Milano Drive:
Item 23:
Ordinance No. 05-1155 : RZ 05-003 Request for a Rezone of
4.42 acres from a R-8 PD zone to a C-N zone for Quenzer Commons
Commercial by Landmark Properties, LLC - west of Locust Grove Road
and north of Heritage Park:
De Weerd: Okay. Do we need to consider Item 21 separate from 22 and 23, since it's
an amendment? Do we need to consider 21 separate?
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June 7,2005
Page 54 of 56
Nary: You do not. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the only reason that's on
there for Tiburon Meadows is the legal description was in error. We actually passed this
sometime in early '04, so that wasn't my office that did that, but it was thought by -- it
was thought -- so you can consider them together. I just wanted to note that for the
record.
De Weerd: We appreciate the clarification. Okay. I will ask the city clerk to, please, read
Items 21,22 and 23 ordinances 04-1093,05-1154, and 05-1155, by title only.
Berg: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Amendment to Ordinance
04-1093, amendment to ordinance 04-1093, finding that the owner Stonehouse
Evangelistic Church and Gretta Hewett, trustee for Stonehouse for the Hewett 1992
trust for certain real property has made a written request for a rezone and the zoning
classification for real property located at 1450 and 1460 North Ten Mile Road,
approximately one half mile of south of the southeast intersection of Ten Mile Road and
Cherry Lane, Meridian, Idaho, and that lies within the boundaries of the City of Meridian,
from R-4, Low Density Residential District, to R-4, Low Density Residential District, R-8,
Medium Density Residential District and L-O, Limited Office District, as defined under
Meridian City Code Section 11-7-C, D, and G and providing for a summary of the
ordinance and providing for a waiver of the reading rules and providing an effective
date.
Berg: Item 22, Ordinance 05-1154, an ordinance Verona Subdivision No.3 for a rezone
of property located at the northeast corner of North Ten Mile Road and West Lullilo
Drive, City of Meridian, Ada County, Idaho, and described in Attachment A of this
ordinance and rezoning certain lands and territories situated in Ada County, Idaho, and
within the corporate limits of the City of Meridian and rezoning the land use zoning
classification of said lands from R-4, Medium Density, to L-O, Limited Office, pursuant
to Meridian City Code, providing that copies of this ordinance shall be filed with the Ada
County assessor, the Ada County recorder, the Idaho State Tax Commission, as
required by law and providing for a summary of the ordinance and providing for a waiver
of the reading rules and providing an effective date.
Berg: And Item 23, Ordinance 05-1155, an ordinance Quenzer Commons Commercial
for a rezone of the property located on the west side of Locust Grove, north of Heritage
Square Park, City of Meridian, Ada County, Idaho, as described in Attachment A of this
ordinance and rezoning certain lands and territories situated in Ada County, Idaho, and
within the corporate limits of the City of Meridian and rezoning the land use zoning
classification of said lands from R-8, Medium Density, to C-N, Neighborhood Business
District, in Meridian City Code, providing that copies of this ordinance shall be filed with
the Ada County assessor, the Ada County recorder and the Idaho State Tax
Commission, as required by law and providing for a summary of the ordinance and
providing for a waiver of the reading rules and providing for an effective date.
Meridian City Council
June 7, 2005
Page 55 of 56
De Weerd: Thank you. You have heard the reading of Ordinances relating to Items 21
through 23. Is there anyone who like to hear it read in its entirety? Hearing none.
Council, do I have a motion?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I make a motion that we approve ordinances Items 21,22 and 23.
Bird: Second.
Rountree: Subject to -- well, with suspension of rules.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. The motion is to approved Items 21 through 23; is that correct?
Rountree: Yes.
Bird: Yeah. 21, 22, and 23.
De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Berg, will you call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Donnell, yea.
De Weerd: Okay. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 24:
Executive Session as per Idaho State Code 67-2345 (1) (c):
De Weerd: Item 24 is an Executive Session. Do I have a motion?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we go into Executive Session as per 67-2345(1 )(c).
Donnell: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Donnell.
Donnell: I'd like to ask to be excused from Executive Session.
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June 7, 2005
Page 56 of 56
De Weerd: Okay.
Donnell: Thank you.
De Weerd: Mr. Berg, will you call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Donnell, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Go Into Executive Session at 9:57 p.M.
De Weerd: I would entertain a motion to come out of Executive Session.
Rountree: So moved.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: All Ayes Motion Carried. I would entertain a motion to adjourn.
Rountree: So Moved.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Okay and all those in favor.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 11:47 P.M.
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
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MAYOR TAM
1 1_2.6 1 ~5 -
DATE APPROVED
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