HomeMy WebLinkAbout2020-02-04 Work Session Meridian City Council Work Session February 4, 2020.
A Meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 4:30 p.m., Tuesday,
February 4, 2020, by Mayor Robert Simison.
Members Present: Robert Simison, Joe Borton, Luke Cavener, Treg Bernt, Jessica
Perreault, Brad Hoaglun and Liz Strader.
Also present: Chris Johnson, Bill Nary, Kyle Radek, Mike Barton, Jeff Brown, Joe
Bongiorno and Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll-call Attendance:
Liz Strader _X_ Joe Borton
_X_ Brad Hoaglun _X_Treg Bernt
_X_ Jessica Perreault _X Luke Cavener (phone)
_X_ Mayor Robert E. Simison
Simison: It is Tuesday, February 4th, at 4:30. We will call this City Council work session
into order with roll call attendance.
Item 2: Adoption of Agenda
Simison: Item No. 2 is the adoption of the agenda.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: I would like to take off Item 3-F, vacate that from the agenda. Other than that
move that we -- we approve the adoption -- or the agenda is adopted.
Hoaglun: Second.
Simison: I have a motion and a second -- a motion and a second to adopt the agenda
vacating Item 3-F. Any discussion? If not, all those in favor signify by saying aye.
Opposed nay. The ayes have it.
MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES.
Item 3: Consent Agenda [Action Item]
A. Approve Minutes of January 21, 2020 City Council Work
Session
B. Approve Minutes of January 21, 2020 City Council
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Regular Meeting
C. Approve Minutes of January 28, 2020 City Council Work
Session
D. Approve Minutes of January 28, 2020, City Council Regular
Meeting
E. Bicentennial Farm Subdivision Water Main Easement
No. 2 as Revised per Direction From Legal 01/28/2020
G. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for Goddard Creek
Townhomes (H-2019-0068) by SI Construction, Located at
the NW Corner of W. McMillan Rd. and N. Goddard Creek
Way
H. Acceptance Agreement for Display of Artwork in Initial Point
Gallery
1. Allie Zeyer: 7/31/2020-8/27/2020
I. Addendum to Cooperative Agreement for Illumination/Lighting
Project No. A021(858) US20/26, SH16 to Linder Road
J. Memorandum of Agreement with Idaho Attorney General' s
Office for Incident Tracking System
K. Settlement and Release Agreement with C15 LLC Regarding
the Irrigation Well Constructed for Impressive Eastridge
Subdivision
L. Approval of Construction Contract to Bricon, Inc. for the
"Five Mile Pathway— James Court Sidewalk Widening" Project
for a Not-To-Exceed Amount of$113,800.00
M. AP Invoices for Payment - 01/30/20 - $55,366.14
N. AP Invoices for Payment - 02/05/20 - $598,630.29
Simison: Item 3, Consent Agenda.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
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Bernt: I --with the change that was made previously, I move that we approve the Consent
Agenda as presented.
Hoaglun: Second.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to approve the Consent Agenda. Any discussion?
If not, all those in favor signify by saying aye. Those opposed nay. The ayes have it.
MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES.
Item 4: Items Moved From the Consent Agenda [Action Item]
Simison: There were no items moved to -- off the Consent Agenda.
Item 5: Department/Commission Reports [Action Item]
A. Public Works Department: Budget Amendment in the
Amount of 336,682.00 to Fund Water Main Extension Projects
Simison: So, we will move into Item 5-A, which is a Public Works Department budget
amendment and I will ask Kyle to present.
Radek: Thank you, Mayor, Council Members. This is a budget amendment for 336,682
dollars for water main extensions -- for all the water main extension projects we have
going on and you may have noticed driving around town that there is a lot of projects
going on. It will keep you from getting from point A to point B and that is a significant
reason why we find ourselves in need of more money for water main extensions. We do
our best to estimate at different times of the year and approaching budget what we are
going to need for the -- for the coming fiscal year and largely because there is a lot of
ACHD and ITD cooperative projects it's very fluid and just very difficult to do. So, with the
information we had available at budget time we asked for what we thought was the right
amount of money and it turns out the information we have available now to us we need
this much more money. So, with that I will stand for any questions you have and ask that
you approve the budget amendment in the amount of 336,682 dollars for water main
extensions.
Simison: Thank you, Kyle. Is there any questions from Council?
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: It's not a question, it's more of a comment. A little bit of context for this request.
I think the -- how I have understood this request from the Public Works Department is
that, you know, this type of work is mandated to go along with the work that ITD and
ACHD are doing. I just think that's a good context for all of us. It's something that we
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have to do now and that they are really managing the department well, they are not
hanging onto money, so when they don't, you know, think they are going to need
something they put it back and so this request is -- is one of several just unforeseen
circumstances that are going to happen with the Public Works Department and with that
in mind I move that we approve Item 5-A, a budget amendment in the amount of 336,682
dollars to fund the water main extension projects.
Borton: Second.
Bernt: Second.
Simison: I have a motion and a couple seconds. Is there any discussion on the motion?
If not, if the clerk will call the roll.
Roll call: Bernt, yea; Borton, yea; Cavener, yea; Hoaglun, yea; Strader, yea; Perreault,
yea.
Simison: The ayes have it.
MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES.
B. Parks and Recreation Department: Fiscal Year 2020
Net-Zero Budget Amendment in the Amount of $46,800
to Decrease Seasonal Wage Costs for Additional
Contracted Mowing
Simison: Item 5-B is our Public Works -- our Parks and Recreation Department for a
budget amendment and that's Mr. Barton. Come to the podium and present.
Barton: Good afternoon, Mr. Mayor and Council Members. I'm here this afternoon to --
have four different items to bring forward and the first item is a budget amendment for
46,800 dollars that would -- it's a net zero amendment to transfer money from our
seasonal wage line and the other labor burden lines into our contracted services GL that
would fund the approval of an alternate bid for landscape mowing in our neighborhood
parks. We have -- you know, as everybody knows and talked about there is a labor
shortage in the -- in the valley right now, so with our -- the bidding of our landscape
maintenance contract that takes care of, you know, City Hall, fire stations, landscape
medians, the interchanges, those types of things, we -- we said, hey, give us a price to
mow our neighborhood parks while you're at it. The price came back very favorable. So,
we are going to reduce our seasonal wage line to fund that. So, with that I will stand for
questions and ask for your approval.
Simison: Are there any questions?
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
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Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: Mike, just for some brief context, Lawnco has been doing this for a number of
years.
Barton: Correct.
Borton: Doing a really good job.
Barton: Yeah. Mr. Mayor and Councilman Borton, Lawnco -- I think they have had the
contract for two different terms and we issued an RFP -- this kind of segues into the next
item, but we will get there. We issued an RFP. We had five respondents. Lawnco scored
well and they were -- for the five year contract they were 991 ,000 dollars. The high bid
was 1 .7 million. So, not only do they do good work, their pricing is favorable.
Borton: Thanks.
Simison: Are there any other questions?
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: I would move to approve the Parks and Recreation Department's requests for
fiscal year '20, a budget amendment in the amount of 46,800 dollars to decrease the
season or wage costs for additional contracted mowing.
Borton: Second.
Simison: Have a motion and a second. Is there any discussion on the motion? If not,
clerk will call the roll.
Roll call: Bernt, yea; Borton, yea; Cavener, yea; Hoaglun, yea; Strader, yea; Perreault,
yea.
Simison: The ayes have it.
MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES.
C. Parks and Recreation Department: Award of Multi-Year
Contract to Lawn Co for Landscape Maintenance and
Authorize the Procurement Manager to Issue Purchase
Orders in the Amount of 213,450.00 for Fiscal Year 2020
Services
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Simison: So, item C is also our Parks and Recreation Department and I'm assuming
you're going to do the rest of these. I will just let you take over from here.
Barton: I'm going to stand here and go through them and we will go from one to the next.
Thank you. So, the next item is the award of a multi-year contract to Lawnco that we just
talked about for 213,450 dollars and that's to maintain the landscaping on all 35 sites that
we have. In addition to that it includes the 46,800 dollars that we just talked about with
the budget amendment to contract mow our neighborhood parks. So, with that I would
ask for approval of that contract or -- and stand for any questions.
Simison: Any questions? If not do I have a motion?
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: I would move that we award a multi-year contract to Lawnco for landscape
maintenance and authorize the issuance of purchase orders in the amount of 213,450
dollars for fiscal year 2020 services.
Perreault: Second.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 5-C. Is there any discussion? If
not, clerk will call the roll.
Roll call: Bernt, yea; Borton, yea; Cavener, yea; Hoaglun, yea; Strader, yea; Perreault,
yea.
Simison: All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES.
D. Parks and Recreation Department: Memorandum of
Understanding Between Intermountain Pet Hospital and the
City of Meridian Regarding Dog Park Water Features at
Discovery Park
Barton: Thank you. Mr. Mayor, Item D is a memorandum of understanding between the
City of Meridian and Intermountain Pet Hospital for the installation -- or the installation of
some spray features in the dog park and this is a reimbursement agreement of sorts. I
would like to thank Dom -- Dom Gelsomino that -- on our parks commission. He -- he
took it upon himself to go out into the community to solicit a donation that would fund
these sprayers. I mean the dog park at Discovery Park is -- you know, it's been intended
to be an off leash area, so it was lacking some amenities and Dom kind of went out and
hit the pavement and went into Intermountain Pet Hospital, who has been a great partner
at Storey Park, they funded the dog agility equipment if -- if you -- some of you may
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remember some of that and so they have been great and they have offered to reimburse
the city 6,713 dollars to install some of this spray equipment. In exchange for that we put
up a recognition sign on the fence for -- for the lifespan of this equipment, which we think
is a little less than ten years. So, it's kind of a win-win. They get -- they get some
advertisement and notoriety and -- and we get some amenities paid for, which we really
appreciate. So, with that I will stand for any questions you have and ask for approval.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: I wanted to publicly thank Intermountain Pet Hospital for their generous donation.
Mike is right on point when he said that they have been great partners with us and what
we have done in the past and I want to thank them publicly for their donation and also
thank Commission President Gelsomino and for his dedication in this good work, what he
does for our parks commission. Thanks, Dom.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: First motion will be for approval of a memorandum of understanding between
Intermountain Pet Hospital and the City of Meridian regarding the dog park -- park water
features at Discovery Park. I move we approve that MOU.
Borton: Second.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to approve the MOU with Intermountain Pet
Hospital. Can this be a voice vote? All right. Is there any discussion on the motion? If
not, all those in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay. The ayes have it.
MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES.
E. Parks and Recreation Department: Fiscal Year 2020 NetZero
Budget Amendment in the Amount of$6,713.14 for Dog Park
Water Features at Discovery Park
Barton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: I would move we approve fiscal year 2020 net zero budget amendment in the
amount of $6,713.14 for dog park water features at Discovery Park.
Borton: Second.
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Simison: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 5-E. Is there any discussion on
the motion? If not, clerk will call the roll.
Roll call: Bernt, yea; Borton, yea; Cavener, yea; Hoaglun, yea; Strader, yea; Perreault,
yea.
Simison: All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES.
Simison: Thank you very much.
F. City Council Discussion: Public Hearing Process and
Material Submission Deadlines
Barton: Thank you.
Simison: Okay. Item 5-F. I'm going to turn this over to Mr. Borton.
Borton: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I'm going to head down to the podium. Mr. Mayor,
Members of Council, this item is the start of what we think is going to be a pretty valuable
and long-term project with lots of work to do. The purpose of coming down here -- we
started this process a little bit ago when there was some ideas that we wanted to develop
and have some -- some Council input and some -- some work to be done on it, that we
would come down here and -- for a couple of reasons. One, initiate the discussion and
see if there is consensus in moving forward on a particular project or an idea. If there is
not, that's fine. And if there is, then, we are all on the record acknowledging that we are
all rowing in the same direction. The other thing that's nice about being down here is it
reminds us sometimes applicants and the public -- you know, to see what they see and
-- and understand what it's like to be down at the podium. It reminds us why we are not
on cell phones and -- and why we are attentive with their presentations, as well to our
staff who comes down here. So, I think it's great for us to pop down here every now and
then and look each other in the face and remember that. So, the purpose of this agenda
item -- and it's relatively narrow tonight. It's talking about process improvement. We are
either -- in how we do what we do up here -- are getting better or getting worse. We are
doing one of the two at all times and there is some great momentum right now about
making it even better in the process that we use to make decisions. We have heard
individually through the comp plan process, those that have recently been elected through
the campaigning process, about opportunities that we have and some momentum to
improve how we can come up with our ultimate decisions. So, that's what this is about,
to see if there is consensus on the seven of us initiating some -- some process
improvements. The focus of who we are trying to serve in doing this, the applicants that
want to understand consistent, objective, measurable benchmarks and how an
application is processed -- our -- our own internal staff, so they can understand and
communicate what those expectations are early on. Nobody likes surprises. Our staff
doesn't deserve surprises. The public doesn't and nor do -- nor does our staff or the
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applicants. Neighbors have expressed -- sometimes here at the podium, but in the comp
plan process as well -- opportunities for them to be more productively engaged early in
the process and there is some opportunities and ideas from -- from this Council and the
Mayor about ways we might be able to effectively and efficiently engage the neighbors in
the process. So, when they get to this stage, you know, sometimes when an application
is before us it's step 27 of 27 --that their valuable input has -- has made a difference early
on when it matters most. The area agencies, we have heard that there might be better
opportunities in how we receive their input and the time in which we receive their input
and our opportunity, both for our staff and for all of us up on the dais to be able to utilize
their input in an efficient way. Staff reports from ACHD or comments from the school
district are a couple of good examples where they can provide valuable input to help us
make the best decision for the community. All of this is focused on improving our process
to help make better decisions. So, with that goal in mind and knowing that the outcome
of improving some of these benchmarks might lead us to do that, it might help Legal keep
us on the straight and narrow. It might help our public safety, Police and Fire, provide us
input at a time that it can help us make the best decision. So, the purpose of getting here
is not to talk unnecessarily or to decide up or down on what benchmarks or deadlines or
improvements we might make, but to see if we have got a head nod and a -- we ought to
collectively go down that path. Maybe charge somebody to lead that task. Have some
benchmarks and hold ourselves accountable in how we are going to gain input from our
staff and these agencies, the development community, neighborhood groups -- ultimately
bringing back some -- some benchmarks, without making this too unwieldy, without trying
to create 75 changes, but something that's -- that's accomplished -- that we can
accomplish in a reasonable amount of time, that will make real impact and make this
process better and help all of us in our community with better decision making. So, Mr.
Mayor, with that, that's the purpose of today. So, it's --the intent was that it might be open
like we have done in -- in other sessions for any Council Members, if it's a terrible idea,
that's fine, let's just do something else and if it's a great idea let's all comment about that
and maybe provide some sideboards for next steps.
Simison: All right. Well, thank you. And I will just point out we do have several members
of our community development staff here as well. We did have an internal conversation
-- I did with Legal and Community Development as well, so I think that they are open if
you have got some questions or want some general thoughts from them on this topic as
you throw out ideas and see what it means before we move forward on direction, because
I know I -- I got a different viewpoint on a few items today as well.
Borton: Okay. I will come on up and --
Simison: Yeah. So --
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
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Perreault: So, just big picture, I'm definitely in support of going down this road. I had the
opportunity to speak with several members of Community Development as well and,
actually, interestingly, I have had a short conversation with Mary May with ACHD about
the timing of their reports and whatnot this afternoon and I think that there are a lot of -- I
like that -- that Joe called them improvements and not just changes, because I think it is
an effort to make -- to make the processes smoother for everybody involved and, Joe, I
appreciate you naming all of the -- all of the groups and individuals that it benefits,
because it really -- I think it really will if we -- if we hear what -- what all of the different
parties are involved have to say about their thoughts and concerns, I think we can
definitely make some -- some improvements to the processes. So, that's just big picture.
I definitely would say I'm in support of going down this road. I have a lot of very specific
ideas, but that's not probably for this conversation, but let's say--- I think we should move
this direction.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Well, I would just like to say a couple things. Number one, thank you to
Councilman Borton for initiating this conversation, because I know it is a really relevant
topic and I am aware that Council Woman Perreault has done a good job of working with
the Planning Department on some initiatives as well, so I think this is great timing for all
of us to consider and discuss with the Planning Department. I guess just the three
principles at a high level that I think are important on this topic -- and not to get into the
weeds -- number one, I feel very strongly that any process improvement shouldn't come
from an outside group, but should really be embraced internally within the Planning
Department as a process that they own, that they are comfortable with on development
applications and where they really feel confident that they can deliver and that it works
for them. So, that's the first thing, I think just having them hear that just -- at least from
me that I think that's important and I want to hear from them directly today with any initial
thoughts and, then, just two things -- maybe my second point would be I -- I hope there
is a way for all of the stakeholders, when we are making an important decision on a
development application, to get all of the information at the same time in advance, so we
all have time to analyze and digest that information. I don't know how we do that, if there
is a way to get, you know, staff reports and all the information in a timely manner and
have people have time to, then, hit the pause button and be able to digest that information
to make a good decision I think that would be great. The third thing I would say -- and I
want -- I have mentioned this to members of the Planning staff, but I just wanted to say it
publicly, I think it's really important that we measure success not just by the volume of
applications that we are approving, but really that we are focusing on quality and that we
are focusing on giving ourselves the right amount of time to make decisions appropriately
and there is always a balance, but that they could hear at least for me like that is very
important to me, that they feel they have had adequate time to prepare the reports, that
the applicant and the public have had time to read the information. So, I thought those
are the three things I wanted to mention.
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Simison: Thank you. Anyone else have any comments they would like to make at this
time on this topic?
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor, I appreciate your comments about engaging with staff. Again, I
don't know if it's the appropriate time, but I'm definitely very interested to hearing the
feedback from the Planning and Legal staff about their thoughts.
Simison: Does anybody else have any other comments before we bring them up?
Strader: My thought was the exact same comment, Mr. Mayor.
Simison: Okay. Well, they were going to be my last group to invite up. Just want to make
sure we got Council's thoughts out there before, that way if they want to respond to
anything that they have heard of as of that standpoint. So, Caleb, do you have anything
that you would like to provide?
Hood: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, thank you. It might be easier, if you don't
mind, just sitting here. I appreciate Councilman Borton coming down to the floor. I'm
always down at this level, but I have some notes and things, so I want to -- and -- and I
guess I don't -- I'm not afraid to -- and I'm not, you know, think speaking for our entire
department, but I'm -- I'm not afraid to have an open conversation. I mean let's get it out
there. We don't need to dance around things. We want to improve and I have a list of
things that I have heard and we are ready to implement potentially some of them after we
make sure that it's the right thing to do. I don't have a silver bullet, though, that solves all
of our problems and that makes this process just squeaky clean and easy every time, but
if you are okay with it, Mayor, maybe just running through some of those things that I have
heard and maybe some process improvements that we can almost implement right away
and some of them that will probably take some time. Again, whether it's outreach before
we implement or if they are code changes and those just by processwise will take us three
or four months to get through the Planning and Zoning Commission and to you and an
effective date. So, I'm prepared to go there and start to kind of run through these things
that we think will help improve the process, unless you want to tell me first and I will fill in
any gaps that you may have missed, but I have got a -- kind of a running list of process
improvements that I think we can really start to tackle and -- and implement.
Simison: I will just say from our conversation today with -- without going into -- because
I don't know that we are -- even within the group there was a lot of questions still, but I
think you can highlight the areas that you have identified without necessarily going into
the pros and cons at this point in time, because I think every one of these issues that you
are going to hear as a pro and con as to when you change it with the impacts. So, with
that -- sure.
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Hood: So, with that direction I -- I will keep it at the higher level and just try to remember
it is -- I don't know if there is 27 steps, but it is a long process and it all works together.
So, with that I'm going to talk about neighborhood meetings first, because that's one of
the first steps in the process, but it even feeds into your staff report timelines, which is
towards the latter end of the process. So, this all kind of works together -- or at least it
should work together when your process is functioning efficiently. So, neighborhood
meetings have been an area of contention for a handful of different reasons. One is I
think generally tied to the time they are required to be held. There is a question even out
there about should we even require neighborhood meetings. I think the intent there is to
have a potential developer meet with the neighbors to collaborate and understand from
each side of the fence what any concerns may be with the proposed project in hopes that
they can work things out before it gets to the Planning and Zoning Commission or City
Council and that makes your job easier. That doesn't always happen. They can be
contentious. Developers sometimes don't make any changes and the neighbors don't
appreciate that, so what's the point. I went to a meeting, it's the same thing, we told you
we didn't like it, you're still shoving this down our throat essentially. So, just an overall
question about how effective our neighborhood meetings are, but also the timing of those
in our code. You can hold that as close to five days before you actually submit an
application to us. So, if you -- if you require that neighborhood meeting be held earlier in
the process, at least there is a perception, may not be reality, that a developer could make
some changes to their project, because they listened to the neighborhood. If it's just five
days before my application, the likelihood of me working with my engineer or my architect
to make any changes is pretty unlikely. So, I will probablyjust leave that there. The timing
of neighborhood meetings and the purpose of them and -- and how -- how well they are
working, that's a bigger kind of process improvement. Like what can we do to improve
that--the overall process. The vicinity also. We only require within 300 feet to be noticed
of that neighborhood meeting. We have heard from people that are 301 feet away or 400
feet away or 500 feet away, hey, that's not very fair, can you -- can you do a further notice.
We could. We could -- pick a number. We can notice 500 feet, 700 feet, whatever. It's a
little bit of a cost. We do -- the clerk's office does take on that responsibility for public
hearing notices, not the neighborhood notice, that would be borne by the developer, but
that's a -- typically a pretty small cost if we want to cast a wider net and invite a few more
people to those meetings. We even talked today -- and we don't currently require
neighborhood meetings to be held at any certain place or any certain time or any certain
day of the week. We could standardize that a little bit more. Hey, don't -- you know, have
them at City Hall, at the libraries, at a school or a church within two miles of the property
or on site or whatever. We can come up with some parameters and they have to be in
the evenings between 6:00 and 8:00, Monday through Thursday,just as an example. So,
standardizing that process a little bit more, so you couldn't potentially have a meeting at
noon in Mountain Home on a Tuesday. No one showed up to my neighborhood meeting.
Okay. That -- we don't get that all the time, but you have had some instances where it
just -- could formalize that process a little bit more. We have even had some
conversations about having them be recorded and technology can fail, but maybe --
maybe they are recorded and, then, there is -- if there is a discrepancy and they said this
or they showed me this or promised they would do that, we could potentially review that
record at a neighborhood meeting -- again just -- not trying to get into the solutions
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necessarily, but that's one of the issues is that staff isn't there or there is no kind of third
party there that sort of can vouch for or understand that process and so that's something
that has also come up is we are not -- we are -- as a city we are not currently part of that
process. We are not present. We have attended a handful over the years, but we are --
that's not -- as a business practice we are not typically at the neighborhood meeting. So,
again, neighborhood meetings as a bigger issue, how can we improve neighborhood
meeting so we have some thoughts on how to improve those. Educationwise we have
some -- we even have some things we have already developed that we could potentially
send to neighbors to say here is what you can expect in a neighborhood meeting. Here
is what's appropriate and what's inappropriate. Here is where this falls in that 27 step
process, so people are just a little bit more comfortable even going there. Hey, are you
consistent with the Comprehensive Plan. It says your plan should be consistent with the
Comprehensive Plan. You know, just some ticklers for them to ask some questions that
--that could be appropriate. So, maybe I will stop talking there on neighborhood meetings
and maybe have some other thoughts on -- on that. But that is one thing kind of early in
the process that we have gotten some feedback it's not working.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: Thank you for that, Caleb. You and I have spoke extensively in regard to this topic
as well. Without getting too far into the weeds and -- I think, ultimately, the most important
thing that we can get from this is to make sure that both the applicant and those neighbors
nearby, whether they are part of an HOA or -- or they are just neighbors, it's just real
important to hold both parties equally accountable for what is discussed and not
discussed or whatever in those meetings. It's very common in my opinion to hear
differentiating opinions and we asked the clerk to verify whether or not neighbor X got a
notification, because they swore up and down that they didn't get a notification and come
to find out that they did or an applicant says that they only had four people come to the
meeting. Come to find out we check -- we checked the records and there was close to
20 or -- you know, I can go, you know, example after example after example after
example. It's rare that we find a neighborhood meeting that goes well and when I say go
well, it doesn't mean they have to agree. Right? You know, I'm not -- we are not saying
that they have to agree, we are just saying -- they just -- you guys need -- you know, we
just want to hold you accountable to what was said, what wasn't said, so when you come
here that it's -- it's on the record. It's been discussed. There is no surprises. No reason
to lie. No reason to mislead. Let's just stick to the facts. I think that this is a great way
to do it.
Simison: And if I could just -- so, one of the comments I made to the staff today, just from
a perspective, is this is -- this is the one place in this process that the city is not involved,
you know, which leads them --which does lead to this very issue. It's also one area that's
not prescribed in state code that we do this either. So, the real question that I have asked
-- and I will throw this to Council is what is the value of the neighborhood meetings in
terms of a requirement or part of the development process. Does it make sense for
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people that want to have a smooth process to get neighborhood -- neighbor involvement?
Absolutely. But like anything in the development process, they can say one thing and,
then, not do it --
Bernt: Right.
Bernt: -- because -- and what I know staff is concerned about is they don't want to be the
arbitrator of the conversations that are occurring at this -- these meetings, because there
is no obligation that they do any -- they can't direct anyone to do anything from that
meeting, whether they agree to it or don't agree to it, but, ultimately, that becomes the
underlying issue. So, whether or not you have staff present, you don't have staff present,
you record the meeting, you hear it, you watch it, what is the value to this body of that
information one way or the other and so I will -- I -- from my perspective I'm just going to
leave it there. What do you --what do you really think that the city gets from neighborhood
meetings.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: I -- I think there is a lot that can be gained from effective neighborhood meetings
personally. I mean I think, number one, the neighbors for sure --for the most-- they have
been living in that area for a long time, they are familiar with the area, they are familiar
with traffic flow and so I think they can give some insight, maybe some direction in regard
to maybe -- a lot of -- a lot of different things. Now, you nailed it right, does -- does the
applicant have to listen, do they have to take into consideration what's being said at these
neighborhood meetings? No, they don't. But the most effective neighborhood meetings
that we have heard are those who -- are those applicants who listen and react and -- and
make decisions based upon their application with recommendations from the neighbors,
because ultimately they are going to be neighbors, you know, whether it's an existing
neighborhood or a new neighborhood, they are still going to be neighbors and I think it's
-- I think out of respect for the system, for the process of -- I think that it makes sense to
continue on with these neighborhood meetings. If I were a neighborhood I would want to
know about them. I would want to know what's going on.
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: Oh, thank you. Just to continue on with Treg's thinking, there has definitely
been a link between when a -- when an applicant has done a fantastic job with a
neighborhood meeting, really did it -- really presented, essentially, the same thing that
they were going to present here, really listened to the neighbors and -- and, then, the
public comment that we receive here. So, we tend to see much less -- much more
positivity I should say, here at our public hearings when the -- when the applicant has
done a great job with those neighborhood meetings and so, obviously, we want to -- to
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take both the applicant and the public into account, but we like to have them come with
some sense of understanding of--especially the description of the project, so we regularly
hear neighbors that come in and say, well, this is what the developer said at the
neighborhood meeting and it looks totally different now that we are here at the Council
meeting and this is a frequent conversation and so I think it's not so much that we are
trying to check up on anybody, it's more along the lines of did they -- do they understand
one another and how can we help make that happen, so --
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: A couple of thoughts. I would just like to commend Mr. Hood and the whole
Planning Department for having such a candid discussion on how to improve our
processes, because that's a really great sign of a well functioning city that we are willing
to work and constantly examine ourselves on how we can improve. I think for the most
part we are doing a phenomenal job, so I wouldn't want people to get the wrong
impression, but I think we are really looking at a process -- with the amount of growth that
we have had it's very important for us to take a look at how to improve this. I -- I tend to
agree with my two fellow Council Members who have spoken so far. I think that
neighborhood meetings are incredibly important. In my view I would love for them to be
more effective, to have a little more of a buffer in between when those meetings happen
and when a development application goes in, so people could make changes. I tend to
side on the idea of-- if there is a way for us to just have transparency and whether that's
recording these meetings using technology, it's very simple now for almost anyone to
record something. You know, shining some sunshine on something can oftentimes make
a problem go away and, then, there really wouldn't be a dispute about what happened.
Personally I think that could be something that we look at. But I do think the meetings
are important, because to Council Woman Perreault's point, we have had situations
where the neighbors come in and they are like, wow, you know, we really feel like they
heard us and they made changes or we may have situations where it's pretty clear that
the applicant has worked with the neighbors and if the neighbors aren't getting there and
it's going to move forward that can be the case as well. But for them to have that
opportunity -- I like the idea of holding both parties accountable to be neighbors -- they
are going to be neighbors in the future potentially, they should -- they should work it out
as much as possible before they come before us.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Just to weigh in on the meeting itself. I agree that they need to continue. I
think it lends transparency to the process. It helps mitigate -- sometimes there is rumors
among the neighbors about what's going in and what's happening and -- and the applicant
can -- can let -- set the record straight on that and in my previous stint on Council it --
there were times when people came in and those meetings -- they heard each other, they
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worked together, they worked out some things and, you know, it doesn't happen all the
time, but it was -- it was wonderful when that happens and there might be a few minor
points of contention, but we can work through those when the bulk of the other issues are
taken care of. So, there is value to that. And just the fact that I -- I think it's respectful to
the neighbors to -- to have that information beforehand. I think to Council Woman
Strader's point, you know, when is that, do we need more time in advance. I like the idea
of some standardization to the process that locations and timing and different things like
that. Having been a part to represent my parents at one here last fall and could not find
the address. I mean with the address they gave it -- I couldn't find it, so I call the phone
number that was listed and it wasn't in the valley. It was an Idaho number, but not -- not
in the Treasure Valley and they said, oh, we will have them call you. I never got a phone
call. I talked to my folks' neighbor, she went, no one showed up, you know, and -- and
planning staff was aware of that and made sure a meeting was -- was held. So,
sometimes there are glitches in the process, but I think they are worthwhile once people
go, listen, at least can come with facts and to that point of differences in those facts you
will always have those. You know, if we standardize the process to say, okay, but you
record everything -- okay. Who archives that? I mean there is a bunch of other things
that come with that. Do you require briefs? Each side submits a written brief? Well, if
it's not an HOA -- I mean we can really make this complicated. I don't know what the
answer is, but I think it's worth discussing ideas and seeing what comes of it, so --
Simison: Thank you. And if I could -- through the conversation, the value of the
neighborhood meeting will always be there. Good developers will always do the
neighborhood meeting, because they want it, they need it for their projects. You know,
think the real question is those that are -- maybe don't listen to them, what is the value of
doing that from that perspective, because to -- yeah. If we -- if it was not required do we
think that we would just start seeing applications showing up where people never talked
to the neighbors? I would we think you would see a lot of denials and slowing down the
process if that was the case, so -- but I guess just be cognizant of whatever direction is
-- is there. I think Councilman Hoaglun just hit the nail on the head. Every step can
require more actions, reactions, and, then, what happens if you say you want it and it
doesn't happen. Recording you think is done, but doesn't -- it stops. So, once we get to
the solution standpoint just be cognizant of-- if we are not going to assign staff or allocate
staff resources to those, then, we are putting more of it onto a third party in order to ensure
certain things are done or not done from that perspective. So, just more food for thought
as we move into the neighborhood meetings. So, Caleb, you just want to move on to the
next item.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Cavener: Mr. Mayor, can I chime in real quick. I'm sorry.
Simison: Yeah. Go ahead, Luke. Sorry.
Cavener: Because I appreciate your comments and maybe a question for -- for Caleb. I
think as a Council Member we can recognize when there has been a great neighborhood
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meeting and when there has been a really bad neighborhood meeting, so I think --
recently we have seen the results of maybe some less than desirable neighborhood
meetings and I'm just curious from Caleb's standpoint, if this item came up in any of the
stakeholder meetings around the comp plan and if that group had any thoughts or
suggestions or ideas that are worth consideration. I don't want people to think that we
have got all the answers and I think there is a benefit to engaging our neighbors and,
more importantly, maybe also the developing community on their suggestions on how we
can level up this process.
Hood: Yeah. Mr. Mayor, Councilman Cavener, we did hear this from a select few. I don't
want -- this wasn't the first thing out of most people's mouths, but it has been of concern
and, again, the -- the biggest request that I heard was to allow the neighbors an
opportunity to collaborate with a developer earlier in the process, so they can -- a
developer is almost fully invested in their project five days before they are going to submit
their application. They are already thousands of dollars into the project and if you want
them to turn a street 90 degrees, that's more fees, that's more -- you know. And time is
money, too. So, the biggest thing I heard from people is can you have -- and meet with
us early, you know, have them bring a hand drawn, back in the napkin sketch to a
neighborhood meeting and we will -- I don't want to say co-design it with them, because
that's their property, but don't -- don't have them sell us on their project, have them bring
the concept idea to the neighborhood, so that we can work with them on what some of
those concerns may be, so that they can, then, design their project with those things in
mind. So, that's -- that's what I heard is have it earlier, so that there can be better
collaboration, understanding, because the sense I hear from some neighbors -- some --
is that it's too late and they are talking to a wall now, because I have got my project, this
is the project I'm going to submit and it's too late. Boy, if you would have talked to me a
month ago maybe we could have done what you are asking, but I need to submit. I got
-- you know. Anyway. So, that's -- hopefully that answers your question. That's probably
the biggest request that I heard kind of centered around this topic was the timing.
Simison: Thank you. Caleb, if you would like to just go onto the next --
Hood: Yeah. So, the next one is kind of related and I have got this kind of titled as notice
and posting of the public hearings. So, again, this is -- the last one was neighborhood
meetings, so now we are moving into Planning and Zoning and City Council meetings
and similar issues with a 300 foot. So, that's what our code currently requires is to send
notice to all the property owners that are within 300 feet of the exterior boundary of a
project. Again, we have heard -- and this isn't something new or just came up with the
comp plan, it's actually something we have talked about for years now. We instituted
NextDoor maybe two years ago, kind of doing that and that isn't in our code as a
requirement that we do a NextDoor posting for those hearings, but it's a courtesy posting,
in addition to the newspaper notice, posting on site, and, then, the postcard that goes out
to neighbors that are within 300 feet of the property boundary. So, the -- a few kind of
sub issues that we have heard with this is it's -- it's somewhat antiquated, like no one
reads the newspaper anymore; right? Well, that's a state code thing. But the forms of
notice are one of the -- one of the concerns, you know, use your website more, social
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media, do a better way of posting things. The other thing is our process -- and this varies,
but there is really one of two ways. You either require the applicant to post their site
before a public hearing -- in Meridian we require the four foot by four foot -- foot white
sign with -- with black lettering with a date and the name of the project and all that ten
days before hearing. We put that on the applicant. That's their responsibility. When they
submit an application we have them sign an affidavit saying I will post the site at least ten
days, take a picture, send that to us, done. Right? On all the streets that are coming into
that project. It's been alleged that, okay, maybe that happens, picture is taken and, oops,
just kicked over the sign or the sign disappears or whatever. Just some -- some -- so,
one of the things that could take away some of that issue -- and the sign is put up, but it's
not put up very well and so it blows over when the wind comes up one day and, then, it
was up one day, but it just blew over because it was put up kind of shoddily. So, we could
-- we could potentially take that on as a city. We could -- we could contract with a vendor
and say, every project we will send you a list of the project, you go out there and, then,
we are not putting that -- and just innocent mistakes happen; right? Like, oh shoot, I
forgot. It's nine days now and we can't have the hearing, because the developer forgot
to post the site. Your hands are tied. You have to continue that item. I don't know the
percentage, but that happens; right? People just innocently forget to post the site.
Neighbors show up and it's like, sorry, we can't have the hearing, because that form of
required notice was not satisfied. We are all human. Even if we hire a sign company
they may forget from time to time. But you're likely to get a little more reliability out of that
if we just standardize that and we have a company that's on contract, they know every
single time a sign needs to go up, where it goes, how it goes, and when it comes down.
That's another comment we hear. There is these signs everywhere and it looks like there
is a public hearing next week on every parcel in Meridian, because their signs are two
years old and they are still up there. Our code says take them down, but we don't have
any real enforcement on it. So, again, we could standardize that, take that on in-house,
pass through that cost to developers, it may be a little bit more of a cost to some, some
may get a sweet deal, but we should probably get a pretty good deal from a sign company
to do that I would think with the volume we have. But, anyway, so the -- when it comes
to noticing, the distance, and that it actually gets done and gets done well is kind of those
things. So, I don't know that we need to spend too much time on that, but that's just some
thoughts we have had on how to avoid continuances when it comes to the Planning and
Zoning Commission or City Council due to improper noticing.
Simison: Any comments or questions on that aspect? Luke?
Cavener: Thanks, Mr. Mayor. You know, I'm really really supportive of us moving to a
standardized approach for -- for noticing and, honestly, I think that it's a benefit to the
development community that they know they pay their fee and everything else is handled.
Now, if we need to take a review of our fee schedule and making sure that we are charging
the appropriate amount to meet that need, I'm completely supportive of that. I think when
it comes down to our citizens being able to provide the most consistent approach is the
best thing for -- for everyone. So, I'm supportive of that, Caleb. I think that's a great
recommendation. I don't know what the next step would be in terms of that, but that's
something that I -- I'm happy to help cheerlead on.
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Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: I was just going to comment -- and Luke said everything I was going to say, so
-- Councilman Cavener did and so other than that I was just going to close with -- and I
think we ought to look at it further, so --
Simison: Okay. Caleb, the last item?
Hood: Yeah. So, then, the other one is -- is transmittals and staff report timelines and I'm
not quite sure how to couch this, but I think it ties in with some of the goal of having the
decision makers have all the information necessary in a timely manner, so you can
consider it and -- and deliberate and decide, as well as the public having advanced notice,
as well as the applicants having advanced notice of these things. I mean we should all
be -- have ample time, whatever that is. I don't -- I'm not here to say that's a week or two
weeks or two months, but we get it. Like are -- you should have -- you, the royal you --
everybody should have access to information in a timely manner and it shouldn't be the
day of the hearing, here is a book or I have revised my plan or here is the staff report and
you are expected to make a decision that day. So, there is a -- there is a lot in there. We
have talked about everything from -- and let me throw another kind of element in there.
We believe -- and I think you do, too -- and we heard this from the community as well --
that you should have all that information from agencies as well, namely ACHD, but also
the school district. We shouldn't be -- as, again, we as a city shouldn't be probably acting
on a project until we can ensure that all services can be provided to a project, so -- so,
what do you do with that. So, how do you -- how do you schedule them and it's always
sort of a guessing game and Bill does a good job, but from time to time we get a little bit
off with ACHD and, hey, we got this project in, when do you think you will have a hearing
and a staff report, so we can schedule it and work with the clerk and make sure that the
stars align and we get that information so you have everything you need to make a
decision and Planning and Zoning Commission. Sometimes it lags. Your first and ACHD
commission hasn't acted yet. Oh, we got to continue it to get ACHD's comments on
something or hear from the school district, there is issues that come up from -- so, one of
the -- one of the thoughts -- and, again, I'm not necessarily here to -- with solutions, but
one of the things could be to wait to even schedule a hearing until we have that
information. It's -- it's -- you know, slowing down to go fast. Making sure -- we aren't
going to schedule that -- it sounds a little scary. We aren't scheduling until we hear that.
But, boy, once we have that in 28 days we can do our noticing and it's going to happen
that date. We -- if we solve the noticing, you know, posting the site for public hearings,
it's not going to be continued for that reason. We have the staff reports, everything's a
go. There is really no reason that you should have any continuances. We could -- I'm
not saying you won't ever have a continued project, because you still have a public
hearing and new issues could come up. But that's one of the things that could help. And,
then, staff reports could be completed, essentially, as you set the hearing dates for them,
because all the information now is -- we have all that information. We can draft the staff
report. It should give ample notice for everybody to review and deliberate on -- on those
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things. So, again, there is a lot in this -- this issue, but the heart of it is the timeliness of
receiving information, data sharing, understanding where staff is at, where the public is
at, or neighbors, where a developer is at with submitting site plans in a timely manner, so
they can be reviewed in a timely manner by staff, by public, that seems to throw a wrench
in our process a lot of times when -- with late information. So, maybe that's the best way
to kind of couch that and there is a whole bunch of things that go into that, so --
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Just some feedback on that. I -- I would love to see -- I think as we are
contemplating the solutions that you are going to be coming up with that you think would
work well for your department. An example timeline of how that might look, you know,
that -- that -- Caleb, that you think would be successful and seeing a real example I think
would be really helpful, especially if you are trying to, you know, put some guardrails
around the things you control and the things you don't control. Right? There are plenty
of things that we don't control. We can control our own processes in the city after certain
milestones have been met and I just love that idea of everyone having all the same
information, all the stakeholders having the same information and the applicant, having
the staff report and having all the agency comments, so that people can really go from
there quickly. So, I think what you are saying makes a lot of sense, but I would like to see
a timeline, so I can really understand the implications of that in an example.
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: I think there is a lot of different ways that we can go with this and so I'm definitely
in favor of reviewing this item for sure. Anywhere from even moving, you know, the date
that we publish the agenda, moving that day back in order to give stakeholders,
applicants, public, Members of Council, Mayor, staff, more time to review those
applications as well. So, I think it looks good. I think it's important we -- this is going to
be the most complicated discussion I think out of all of them I believe, but it's well worth
having for sure.
Simison: Thank you. And if I could add, part of our conversation today was -- I understand
Community Development at the same time also understands they have to have -- their
turnaround time frames have to be set and they have to be able to deliver those if we go
down this road. So, that to Councilman Strader's point, what is the time frame from point
X to point A to point B or A through F, whatever the case may be. But I think what you
have heard -- and I think the -- some of the comments is really, you know, two -- two
general questions ask each of you to still ponder and if you want to provide this feedback
is, you know, what role do you want to have the city at each step on the process. Should
we control it? Should we not? Are we willing to let some things go or not. And, then,
what is an adequate time frame for each of those processes. Yes, they--they could show
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you under today's code what the process will be, but as we have talked about today,
codes can be changed. We set our -- we set certain time frames ourselves about what is
adequate -- what we think is adequate to do and if we slow down on the front end, does
that mean we can go faster through the process. But you don't have to have such a delay
between Planning and Zoning and City Council, you know, that we -- we have shorten
those elements up. So, those are I think all the part of the dialogue is these are some
things that we think we can address. How we address them as yet to be determined, but
what are your expectations when it gets in front of you. What are your expectations when
it gets in front of Planning and Zoning. You know, what should have occurred by both the
public, our -- our staff and develop the community at each one of those steps along the
way, you know, and when is adequate from that standpoint, you know, to -- I think if you
go back to the very first one about the neighborhood meeting, just the concept of -- if you
think that the value of that is to have a real dialogue about what the project may become,
then, they need to have that well before they invest dollars into their process. Is that three
months before something happens? That date is really hard to define in my opinion about
what do you do, but I think that's -- that feedback if you all can come to a general
consensus or thoughts as we move forward, will help them set up -- set up a system that
works for you all by making changes to our processes and code where we can.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Just one point speaking just purely for myself and my own perspective. I have
always had the principle that you have very, you know, high, but reasonable expectations,
and, then, you expect people to meet them and I expect that applicants that come before
me on a development application have met with the neighbors, truly engaged with them,
that they have had a robust discussion. They may not agree, but that they have been
transparent and that that meeting has taken place and I would be in favor of, you know,
leaning into that a little bit more just to make sure from the perspective of having plenty
of time to have that meeting, but I really do have that expectation myself that they have
engaged in that kind of dialogue. And maybe solutions could include, you know, having
neighborhood -- yeah. this may be difficult, but maybe one of the things on the table is
-- is there a time when City Hall is not being used where we could have neighborhood
meetings here, where we have the facilities and the technology to record them. I mean
there are -- it seems like there are a lot of solutions that we could look at, but I really do
think it's important that they happen and I have that expectation for people to get together
and -- and at least try to get on the same page.
Simison: Any further comments at this time or questions?
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
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Bernt: I wanted to thank staff for all that they do and we have been pretty lean in the
Planning Department for a while and I think that's not a secret. But, you know, the
leadership in that department has stepped up and you all have done what's necessary to
keep the train on the tracks and so I wanted to say thank you. Very -- we certainly, as we
go walk through the halls of City Hall and when we are out in the public, I think it's not a
secret that this is--this is an area in the Planning Department where --that we are working
on it and I wanted to know that we definitely appreciate all that you are doing. It's hard
work and -- and so thank you so much. Above that, I wanted to thank Mr. Borton for his
-- just initiating this conversation. It's not an easy conversation to have. It's going to be
a long conversation going forward, but going forward I think that it would be most
important and appropriate to have Mrs. Perreault take this going forward, along with, you
know, input from --from Council and so just wanted to make that known. I think we spoke
about it, so I think -- I think that makes more sense. I mean you have had a lot of
experience in Planning and Zoning. Planning and Zoning, I -- from what I have learned,
experienced, much more craziness and problems, it seems like when they got this it was
pretty much buttoned up. But I think that with your experience and your knowledge of the
process I think that working with -- with us and input from Council I think that you would
be a phenomenal choice, I think, to -- to be point person on this.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: Thank you, Councilman Bernt, I really appreciate that. I would be happy to. I
had a lot of opportunities as chair of Planning and Zoning to spend time with staff and talk
with them over all of last year and -- and the beginning of this year about the challenges
they have experienced through all of the different things that Caleb has mentioned and
definitely have a desire to -- to see some improvements made that will benefit everyone,
including the staff. I had felt that sense of stress that they have when they have a short
time frame to get all that information out to the public, to us as Council Members when
they are receiving information about the projects a day or two before our hearings. So, I
want them to also feel some -- like they are not hurrying through things, like they have the
opportunity to really digest what it is that they are recommending to us and it's very
important that they have the chance to digest that, as well as us to have the opportunity
to see things in advance. So, hopefully, these improvements will -- will benefit everyone
as -- as Councilman Borton had -- had mentioned at the -- at his presentation. The other
thing I wanted to say really quickly or ask I should say. Clarification. First, my apologies
to the Mayor. I -- my thoughts move very quickly ahead of me and sometimes I don't wait
for you to address me before I started speaking, so my apologies to you for that and the
other thing I wanted to ask is you had mentioned that with neighborhood meetings, do --
do we -- how much does the city get involved and so do you have concerns about
standardizing the timing and location of the neighborhood meeting specifically, because
they are technically not something that the city is involved in. Didn't know if that's what
you meant.
Simison: No.
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Perreault: Okay.
Simison: From this -- and that's -- we looked at Boise. Boise has -- that's what they do.
They have --they have preset standardization in terms of how they are to be done. I think
the real question is if there is an expectation from the Council that staff participate in
those, then, that's where the challenge really becomes, both from a timing standpoint and
an expectation of what staff is doing from their standpoint, because I know that they don't
want to be in the middle. At that point in time in terms of refereeing conversations between
developers and the community and that's -- that's where the challenge is. So, I -- now
that there has been -- or it's been mentioned that maybe we should have planning staff
there -- and at one point in time I thought that maybe we should have plenty of staff there.
It's been a point. But, again, this is what -- what makes sense for our process that we
want to have and what the outcome is that you all are expecting from each one of those
to occur.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: If I may respond to that. I -- I actually would -- I know we won't decide this
today, but I would prefer that staff not be there for their sake and because I think there
may be some hesitancy on the developer's part in what they are presenting, because
maybe they are -- maybe they will just have that concern that staff won't approve of how
they are presenting it or what they are presenting that -- that might make some
nervousness there. But, in addition, in previous conversations with Mr. Nary I am of the
understanding that if we start recording things or we start taking written minutes that they
become public record as well; right? So, I'm sure we will have to -- to ask counsel -- or
ask counsel -- ask Legal, obviously, how that would work and what our obligations would
be to keep that as a -- as a legal record, so throw that out there.
Hood: So, Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Caleb.
Hood: Can I add -- so, I do -- I appreciate this conversation and I do want to thank you
for your kind comments and acknowledge staff, they are hard workers, long hours, they
are proud, too, and so we do own some of these -- these issues that we have and we
want to correct them. We want it to function better, too. So, don't be shy. I appreciate
the comments about, you know, having to work for us and, yeah, we will -- we will -- we
will share that feedback if there is something that seems like, hey, this is going to be
problematic -- we will share those. But if the model is going to be to run through Council
Woman Perreault as our liaison to our department, I agree with -- share them, though. I
mean if you have got off-the-wall things and we will see what sticks, you know, I don't
want you to -- oh, it might be too much for staff. You know, if you have got an idea we are
willing to consider it and we will share some of that feedback. But I trust you -- you guys
are going to be able to balance all that. Well, it's going to be a little bit more on staff, but,
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guess what, it's going to improve our process. You know, there could be a line where it's,
you know, too much if we have to attend all neighborhood meetings and all Council
meeting -- and all -- maybe that's -- we will share that feedback. So, don't let that
necessarily be a deterrent for you sharing potential solutions to some of these issues with
the liaison and we will figure out a path forward, new pros and cons, or whatever that
looks like. I just wanted to extend -- I appreciate the sentiment of -- you know. And we
are here to help solve the problem, too. But if you have some ideas, fire away.
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: That's like the best example, just this discussion is fantastic. It's -- it's
accomplished exactly what we want and you are spot on example of the best way to
approach this. I mean just listening to how you talk about this being an opportunity to do
things better. It's not-- Council Woman Strader brought it up. It's not necessarily wrought
with problems internally that we need to fix, it's can we do something great even better
and the way you frame this as an opportunity is outstanding. I mean hats off to you,
Cameron, the Department, who is working with thin resources, has the perfect attitude to
make this successful. There is -- there is heavy lifting from the seven of us to try and help
that be successful relatively soon, but I greatly appreciate the way you have addressed
this from the start. It will go a long way to make the ultimate outcome very successful
and benefit all of the parties we have talked about at the start.
Hood: I can appreciate -- I will also just say, we can try something and if it doesn't work
we can change a lot of the things we do relatively quickly. If we thought it was a good
idea and it ends up not working, we can revert back or try something else, too. I mean I
-- let's think it through. I'm not -- but I appreciate the comment.
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: Kyle Radek going to all the neighborhood meetings. Put that on the list maybe.
I saw you perk up there.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Just a quick question for Caleb. Caleb, it sounds like you have gathered this
list and you have heard from people involved in their community and their neighborhoods
and their recommendations. I'm assuming you have also heard from developers and the
process and how they see it. Do we need to do anymore publicity, say, hey, we are looking
for ideas or what -- what are your thoughts on that?
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Hood: Mr. Mayor, Councilman Hoaglun, I -- I haven't heard as much maybe from the
development community, maybe because we haven't really talked about changing our
process. They know the current process and they are used to that current process. I
would anticipate going to some of those professional businesses and sharing some of
these process changes with them before we do any -- really do anything. If you wanted
to -- I hadn't contemplated -- contemplated really bringing them into helping us problem
solve this, if you will, or make the problem -- we could. I thought we would share some
of the potential solutions with pros and cons and here is what we are thinking, hey, we
are thinking about noticing 500 feet instead of 300, do you have problems with that. Not
couching it -- hey, can you help us solve a process problem we are having, but if that's
what Council wants us to do, we can be a little more proactive in that I guess. We haven't
cast this wide net of, hey, everybody, what's your -- you know.
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor. Caleb. Yeah, my thought process was not to cast a wide net and
have quasi-public hearings or anything, but just the opportunity to --for them to know they
have that chance to provide their input and we want that input. It doesn't have to be in
any formal way or anything, but just -- just so they know there is -- there is the ability to
give that input.
Hood: We haven't gotten there yet.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Maybe just take it one step forward. I think Councilman
Hoaglun's comments are spot on, but I also think that it would be beneficial just to send
that out to our steering committee members of the comp plan, because it's something
they could at least touch base on, at least at one point in communication, say, hey, here
is some things that we are considering. Either invite feedback or comments, something
that could be shared with the Council prior to implementing any -- any recommendations.
Simison: Thank you. Any last comments, thoughts, before we bring this to an end?
Caleb?
Hood: Sorry, Mr. Mayor. Just --just some clarification on that. We want to come up with
some potential solutions that are -- before going out and kind of sharing that with the
steering committee, because I don't have the -- again the magic bullet. I got some
thoughts, but I don't know how much -- if any of them have legs. So, maybe share a list,
through our liaison back to Council and, then, hey, these are some options and, then, get
that feedback because, again, right now it's a little more vague on what some of those
process improvements are or reach out sooner.
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Simison: I would just encourage your working with the liaison on this at this point in time
and help determine that, because, quite frankly, now that you have had the conversation
today, I think you are going to hear about -- from some people as early as tomorrow and
I think that you are going to be opening yourself up to feedback sooner rather than later
one way or the other.
Simison: Councilman Cavener, did you have anything else you would like to add?
Cavener: Mr. Mayor, you did a great job of summarizing my thoughts. I think working
with the Council liaison is the appropriate first step and, then, pushing it out to the steering
committee. But I think your comments are -- are well founded, that we will hear from
steering committee members probably sooner rather than later.
Simison: All right. Is there anything further?
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: I move that we adjourn the meeting.
Hoaglun: Second.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to adjourn the meeting. All those in favor signify
by saying aye. Any opposed? All ayes. Motion passes. We are adjourned.
MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 5.40 P.M.
(AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
MAYOR ROBERT SIMISON DATE APPROVED
ATTEST:
CHRIS JOHNSON - CITY CLERK
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