HomeMy WebLinkAbout2019-11-12 Regular Meeting MinutesMeridian City Council November 12, 2019.
A Meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 6:04 p.m., Tuesday,
November 12, 2019, by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Tammy de Weerd, Joe Borton, Luke Cavener, Genesis Milam, Ty
Palmer, Anne Little Roberts and Treg Bernt.
Also Present: Chris Johnson, Bill Nary, Sonya Allen, Warren Stewart, Brian Caldwell, Joe
Bongiorno and Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll-call Attendance:
X__ Anne Little Roberts _ X _ _Joe Borton
X__ Ty Palmer (Telephone) X__ Treg Bernt
__X___Genesis Milam __X___Lucas Cavener
__X__ Mayor Tammy de Weerd
De Weerd: Thank you for joining us. It's always nice to see our neighbors and citizens
here in the audience. For the record it is four minutes after 6:00. We will start our regular
City Council meeting. It is Tuesday, November 12th. We will start with roll call attendance.
Mr. Clerk.
Item 2: Pledge of Allegiance
De Weerd: Item No. 2 is the Pledge of Allegiance. If you will all rise and join us in the
pledge to our flag.
(Pledge of Allegiance recited.)
Item 3: Community Invocation by Justin Jordan of Real Life Ministries
De Weerd: Okay. The gentleman that we had leading us under our community invocation
was not able to attend this evening.
Item 4: Adoption of Agenda
De Weerd: So, we will move to Item 4, adoption of the agenda.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I move we adopt the agenda as published.
Cavener: Second.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 22 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 2 of 74
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to adopt the agenda as published. All those in
favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 5: Announcements
De Weerd: Item 5 is announcements. Any announcements?
Milam: Oh. Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: A couple of -- just really a reminder for the most part to -- for all of you to get a
new calendar, because November seems to be going by really fast. We have -- Christmas
In Meridian is kicking off soon. The Santa's mailbox will be November 7th through
December 18th. I'm glad we have a lot of people in our audience to hear all this. The
Salvation Army Angel Tree will be in the City Hall lobby from the 23rd to the -- to December
12th and, then, the -- the big one, the tree lighting and -- tree lighting and parade is on
December 6th. So, mark your calendars for that. The parade floats are being prepared
for the City of Meridian and the city Parks and Rec on Friday at 6:30. Council Members
and commissioners are invited to gather by Storey Park like we always do. So, if you are
not attending -- planning on attending, please, let the clerks know.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Thank you. Yes, Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I hope to see Council Member Borton and Council Member Bernt in their
Christmas suits at that parade, especially selected for my -- my colleagues. Hope to see
you at that event in your dashing Christmas attire.
Borton: Appreciate the --
Cavener: Just don't want you to forget.
De Weerd: I think they better dress as elves. I did want to note that City Hall will be
closed next Wednesday on the 20th for an all-city employee meeting and closed for
Thanksgiving and the day after.
Item 6: Future Meeting Topics - Public Forum (Up to 30 Minutes Maximum)
De Weerd: So, with that, if there is nothing further, I will move to Item 6 and ask Mr. Clerk
if there are any signups.
Item 7: Action Items
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 23 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 3 of 74
A. Public Hearing for Proposed Ordinance 19- 1856: An Ordinance
Amending Meridian City Code 6-2-8(D) and (G) to Increase Fine
Amounts Related to Off-Leash Dogs
Johnson: Madam Mayor, there are several signups, but they are all for items that are
actually later on in the agenda.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Clerk. Okay. We will move to Item 7 under Action
Items. We do have a public hearing for proposed Ordinance 19-1856. This is an
ordinance amending Meridian City Code 2-2 -- or 6-2-8D and G, to increase fine amounts
of -- related to off-leash dogs and I believe that -- who is presenting this? Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Madam Mayor. I hope that the majority of you in this room are here to discuss
this issue. We have a -- we are having a public hearing on the fines for off leash dogs.
This is -- this is an item that I brought forward to the City Council a couple of months ago
because of the enormous number of complaints that I was seeing and hearing about
people being either bitten or chased or attacked, afraid of dogs that are being out in public
off leash. So, at this point the proposal is to not touch any language in the ordinance.
So, the ordinance would stay the exact same as it is right now. The only thing that would
be changing is the -- the amount of the fine. So, currently the fines are 25 dollars for the
first offense, 50 dollars for the second offense, and a hundred dollars for the third offense.
The proposal is to change those from one hundred for the first offense, two hundred
dollars for the second offense and three hundred dollars for the third offense and that's
what I'm asking your support for tonight.
De Weerd: So, the ordinance would be the -- the penalty changes. Do we have anyone
who wishes to sign up to comment on this item? Council, you have heard the proposal.
Do you have any discussion?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Question for Mr. Nary. I assume you have worked with Council Member Milam
on this. No concerns about just reducing fines or don't have any concerns for this being
overbearing or overburdensome?
Nary: So, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Cavener, no. It --
this is an infraction. The court doesn't have the ability to alter the fines. So, the only thing
I will add in our conversation I have had with Council Member Milam is we don't have --
all of our enforcement of this offense is done by the Humane Society. In our current
contract with them when we renewed, the police requested some additional tracking of
data for these types of offenses, a variety of the offenses that they enforce. The
frequency, amongst other things. So, we don't have any other data today to tell you
whether a fine change would matter or impact the behaviors -- I don't know. So, we don't
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 24 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 4 of 74
have anything else to help right the discussion on whether or not the fine -- changing the
fine would be the right remedy.
De Weerd: I guess that would have been my question is -- and I don't know if Lieutenant
Caldwell can answer this, but I'm going to ask it anyway. What has -- has been the
response -- and this is generally citizen driven and typically by the time enforcement gets
out there the dog and the owner is gone. What kind of tool has this been to begin with?
Caldwell: Madam Mayor, Members of Council, our response as a police department to a
lot of these animal issues have become somewhat muted since we have contracted with
the Humane Society. They handle many of those issues for us now that they do that as
part of their duties and beyond that I'm not aware of any issues like that that we have
dealt, particularly in my current position in professional standards, since I'm not assigned
to the patrol division.
De Weerd: Nice political answer. Council, any other questions? I guess, then, looking
for direction on moving forward or -- or not.
Borton: Madam Chair?
Milam: Mr. Borton.
Borton: What would happen is we would bring back an ordinance -- the amended
ordinance at the next Council meeting. The public hearing could be continued to next
week, just in case there is an additional opportunity to comment and, then, the ordinance
can be -- can be on the agenda then. I think, Genesis, your idea makes great sense and
I think the reason that you brought it makes great sense. So, I appreciate you bringing it
up. Intuitively I cannot think that it encourages people to be off leash, whatever the -- I
would think if any -- if there is any change it's going to decrease and the problem will
dissipate some. So, I appreciate you bringing it up.
Milam: Thank you.
De Weerd: Certainly money talks.
Borton: Put it on next week.
De Weerd: Okay. Well, we will bring back an ordinance to have first reading next week
and look for further Council direction and we will continue this for public comment.
Borton: Sure.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 25 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 5 of 74
Milam: Could you also maybe direct staff to put it out on NextDoor and maybe -- I went
and did post some things on some forums that I had been informed on previously, just to
let them know, but it wasn't until yesterday or the day before. So, if we could do a little bit
of outreach maybe through NextDoor and just kind of let people know. We are asking for
a fine increase of 400 percent. That's pretty -- yeah, that's pretty significant. I would say.
Whether people are for or against it, I would love to hear from them, so --
De Weerd: Okay.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Would it be okay to make it the 26th?
De Weerd: Oh.
Borton: Because next week is the comp plan.
De Weerd: Yes. Thank you. Yeah. We will put this on for the 26th and that gives us two
weeks to use social media and NextDoor to let people know. Okay. And we didn't do that
in advance, because we didn't know what Council's thoughts were.
B. Public Hearing for Silverstone Apartments (H-2019-0099) by
Dave Evans Construction, Located at 4107 E. Overland Rd.
1. Request: Modified Development Agreement for the
purpose of removing the subject property from DA Instrument
#2018-012457 and DA Instrument # 2018-012456 and be
placed in a new, separate agreement.
De Weerd: Okay. Item 7-B is a public hearing for H-2019-0099 and this applicant is
requesting a continuance to December 3rd. Sonya, can you tell us the basis of that
request?
Allen: Yes, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. The applicant is requesting
continuance due to needing additional time to respond to ACHD's comments and
recommendation to adjust the access along Movado Way, to share information with
concerned neighbors and to get traffic analysis information related to a potential traffic
signal at the Movado Way and Overland Road intersections.
De Weerd: Okay. Is there anyone in the audience that is here for this item, if you will
raise your hands. Okay. Well, our apologies, but you probably would prefer to have
additional data to be able to -- to maybe craft your testimony to. Council, we can still hear
this. It's -- it's whatever your pleasure is.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 26 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 6 of 74
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I'm always sensitive to the public coming out to provide testimony. I guess for
those that are here, if they are able come back on the 3rd that would be my preference,
but we have got an obligation that would keep them from providing testimony. I would be
willing to open it up, but I guess I'm more in support of continuing it assuming those that
are here are going to be able to come back.
De Weerd: Okay. It's -- it's awkward procedurally to have testimony without introducing
the application. Is there -- and -- and certainly the option, if you're not able to join us on
December 3rd, is to submit written testimony. Is there anyone who has a problem with
either? It is procedurally awkward. Thank you for that, Jeffrey. I have opened this public
hearing. Mr. Nary, any issues with that?
Nary: No. I think it --
De Weerd: I don't want to color the public record.
Nary: I recognize the concern. I don't know this gentleman. I don't know what he has to
say, so I don't know if it would be problematic.
De Weerd: Well, some of us might say I wish I didn't. I'm really kidding, Jeffrey. Come
on up.
Hall: Thank you, Mr. Nary. Madam Mayor, Members of Council --
De Weerd: And this is -- pertains to whether it's the December 3rd --
Hall: Correct.
De Weerd: Okay.
Hall: Correct. So, for the record, Jeffrey Hall, 3023 East Copper Point, Meridian. 83642.
So, I represent the Movado Homeowners Association. Several of their members,
unfortunately -- we don't have the e-mails for all of them, so some of the people who are
here testifying tonight only saw the signs. They have not received an e-mail notification
that this was coming forth and we do support the request for continuance and I just want
to say that. And we are holding two neighborhood meetings, so that's why I really wanted
to talk about this. One is at 7:30 tonight for the homeowners of the village section and
tomorrow night at 6:00 p.m. at Title One where we had the first original meeting, that will
be held for the rest of the Movado homeowners. So, the applicant will be there and
presenting their changes and we are going back. So, just want to provide that so,
hopefully, these folks know that they can come to the neighborhood meeting and hear
everything that's going on.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 27 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 7 of 74
De Weerd: Thank you for that clarification and certainly maybe you could be available
outside --
Hall: Yes.
De Weerd: -- to ask any questions. This sounds like a perfect opportunity to provide
comment to the developer and -- and get some answers with a two way dialogue. So,
thank you for sharing that, Jeffrey. So, Council, you have heard the request for
continuance. I will look for your direction.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: With that explanation and the purpose for the continuance being one we certainly
support, that communication, I move that we continue H-2019-0099 to December 3rd.
Cavener: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to continue Item H-2019-0099 for Silverstone
Apartments to December 3rd. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried. Thank
you.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
C. Public Hearing for Delano Subdivision ( H- 2019- 0027) by Devco
Development, LLC, Located at 14120 W. Jasmine Ln. and 2800
E. Jasmine Ln.
1. Request: Comprehensive Plan Map Amendment to include 4.
10 acres of land currently in Boise' s area of City Impact in
Meridian' s area of City Impact with a Mixed Use -Regional
future land use designation; and
2. Request: Annexation and Zoning for an Annexation and
Zoning of 15. 21 acres of land with R-15 (11. 57) and R-40
(3.64 acres) zoning districts; and
3. Request: Preliminary Plat consisting of 85 single-family
residential building lots, 1 building lot for multi-family
development and 12 common lots
De Weerd: And thank you for joining us. We apologize for the inconvenience, but it
sounds like it will just be an extension of -- from this place to another. Okay. Item 7-C is
a public hearing for H-2019-0027. Before I open this public hearing I will go through our
public hearing process. So, we start with a presentation from our staff that will present
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 28 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 8 of 74
the application and staff's concerns or comments. Then we will hear from the applicant.
They have 15 minutes to comment about their application. Following that we will open
the public comment period. Each that has signed up to testify has three minutes. There
is a timer on the screen on -- on the podium and so you can kind of keep track of your
time. I will at three minutes ask you to summarize if you have not concluded at that point.
And after public testimony we will ask the applicant to come forward and address any
questions that -- or comments that were raised during the testimony and answer any
questions that Council has. I will let you know that Council has had an opportunity to look
at the public record to -- to date and has reviewed that and so they are caught up to date.
I will ask that you be respectful in your testimony. We did get a letter that is in front of our
Council that does start abruptly and so if you will use decorum we would certainly
appreciate that. And with that said I will open this public hearing with staff comment.
Allen: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. The next application before
you is a request for a Comprehensive Plan map amendment annexation and zoning, and
a preliminary plat. This site consists of 15.21 acres of land. It's zoned RUT in Ada county
currently and is located at 2800 and 14120 West Jasmine Lane. The Comprehensive
Plan future land use map designation is medium density residential, as you can see there
on the map on the left, the yellow area, and the parcel on the right, which is white, is
designated general mixed use in the city of Boise and in Boise's area of city impact
boundary. The Comprehensive Plan map amendment includes the eastern 4.1 acres of
land as I mentioned currently in Boise's area city impact and planning area and Meridian's
planning area with a mixed use regional future land use map designation, consistent with
Boise's designation. The reason for the request is due to the larger portion of the property
being in Meridian's area and Meridian's ability to provide city sewer and water services to
the property. Since the Commission hearing the city of Boise approved and adopted a
resolution to amend the land use map to transfer this parcel to the City of Meridian area
of impact and this is the mixed use regional map designation future land use map that is
proposed by the applicant. The annexation and zoning request is for 15.21 acres of land
with R-15, which is 11.57 acres of the annexation request and R-40, which is 3.64 acres,
consistent with the medium density residential and requested mixed use regional future
land use map designations for this property and that is the breakdown of the zoning right
here in this upper left-hand corner map. A preliminary plat is proposed consisting of 85
single family residential building lots for the development of a mix of detached and
attached homes. One building lot for a future 96 unit multi-family residential development
and that is this area right here on the east side and 12 common lots on 15.21 acres of
land in the proposed R-15 and R-40 zoning districts. The plat is proposed to develop in
two phases with the first phase including the extension of the stub street Dashwood from
the north and connection to the extension of Centrepoint Way at the southeast corner of
the single family residential portion of the site. Development of the multi-family portion is
not proposed at this time and will require a future conditional use permit prior to
development. A conceptual development plan was submitted for the parcel to the north
and that is the upper right-hand corner map. The parcel north of the multi-family area
showing how the site could possibly redevelop with the extension of Centrepoint, but that
-- that parcel is not part of this development application, just to be clear. Access is
depicted on the plat via the extension of Centrepoint Way, a collector street at the
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 29 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 9 of 74
southern boundary of the site, and via the extension of a local stub street North Dashwood
Place at the northern boundary of the site. Centrepoint is proposed to extend from the
southern to the northern boundary of this site consistent with the master street map for
eventual connection to Wainwright Drive when the parcel to the north redevelops.
Because of reduced street sections, 27 feet wide, are proposed, which only allow parking
on one side of the street, which is further restricted by the narrow lots for detached homes
where there isn't adequate area for on-street parking with the driveways for each lot, a
parking exhibit was submitted as shown that demonstrates the locations and amount of
available on-street parking, which are along common area landscape strips consisting of
56 on-street spaces. The staff report recommends the extension of Centrepoint Way from
the south to the north boundary of the annexation area to take place with the first phase
of development, rather than the second phase as proposed, so that if the property to the
north develops before the multi-family portion of the site, the connection to Wainwright
can be made for access to the traffic signal. The subsequent ACHD report requires
Centrepoint to be extended to Jasmine with development of the single family units in
phases one and two and extension to the north property line with the multi-family
development. Right of way is required to be dedicated, but Jasmine would temporarily
not connect to Centrepoint. There would be an approximate eight foot gap classified as
unopened, unmaintained right of way that would be gated for emergency access only. A
road test will be held by ACHD for the cost of the future connection of Jasmine to
Centrepoint. Connection would occur when Centrepoint is connected to Wainwright Drive
to complete the north-south collector or in ten years, whichever occurs first. A temporary
hammerhead type turnaround is required for the Jasmine stub. Staff is okay with the
aforementioned ACHD requirements if determined appropriate by Council and this would
necessitate a modification to DA provision A-1-F in Section 8. A 20 foot wide landscape
street buffer is required along Centrepoint Way, a collector street. A minimum ten percent
qualified open space is required to be provided for the development, along with one site
amenity. The applicant is proposing 11.5 percent of the single family residential portion
of the site consisting of a half acre park, parkways, a micro path lot, a collector street
buffer and a local street buffer approved by the director through alternative compliance.
Because the multi-family portion of the site is separated from the single family residential
portion of the site by a collector street and the development plan is conceptual at this
time, staff recommends as a development agreement provision that the ten percent open
space is provided at the time -- at the -- excuse me -- time of development that portion of
the site in addition to the open space required in the specific use standards for multi-
family developments. A shade structure, children's play equipment, children's climbing
dome, climbing boulders, seating benches, micro pathways and possibly a swing set are
proposed as amenities, which exceeds UDC standards. Conceptual building elevations
are proposed for the single family residential attached and detached units on the left and
the multi-family residential apartments on the right. All single family residential homes
along the west and north perimeter boundary of the development will be a single story in
height. There have been many letters of public testimony, as I'm sure you have seen on
the public record. Approximately 49 have been received on this application, primarily from
residential neighbors to the north in Alpine Pointe Subdivision. The primary concerns are
the intensity of the development. Density is too high. Not enough transition in lot sizes
to larger lots to the north. Extension of North Dashwood Place and Centrepoint Way and
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 30 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 10 of 74
resulting traffic generated from this development and from the commercial and multi-
family residential developments to the south that will be routed through their subdivision
if Jasmine is connected to Centrepoint before Centrepoint can be extended to the north
to Wainwright and safety concerns for children pertaining to traffic. So, please, see the
public record for complete record of testimony and names. The Commission did
recommend denial of these applications to Council. A little summary of the Commission
public hearing. I will go through that. Jim Conger testified in favor. Several folks testified
in opposition as follows: Malissa Bernard representing many neighbors on Dashwood
Place to the north in Alpine Pointe Subdivision. Frank Marcos, Alpine Pointe Subdivision
HOA president. Kenneth Clifford. Sherry Garey. Greg Walker. Patricia Pitzer. Joy
Cameron. Sandi King. Laura -- I'm going to totally slaughter this -- Trairatnobhas. And
Connie Thompson commented on the application and, again, many letters of testimony
have been received. Key issues of public testimony are as follows: Consensus that
proposed development -- the density is too high. Not enough transition in lot sizes to the
larger lots to the north. Concern pertaining to the extension of Dashwood Place and
Centrepoint Way and resulting traffic generated from the proposed development and from
the commercial and multi-family residential developments to the south that will be routed
through the subdivision to the north if Jasmine is connected to Centrepoint before
Centrepoint can be extended to the north to Wainwright. Safety concerns for children
pertaining to traffic. The proposed development is premature and that infrastructure, i.e.,
the extension of Centrepoint to Wainwright should be in place prior to development going
in not after the fact and there has been no negotiation with neighbors by the developer
as directed by the Commission. Key issues of discussion by the Commission are as
follows: The desire for the city of Boise to take action -- action on a request to exclude
the eastern portion of the site from their area of city impact boundary prior to the city
making a decision on this application. This has been done, like I mentioned earlier. The
possibility of only an emergency access via Dashwood Place. Concern pertaining to
adequacy of parking for the development. Preference for R-8 versus R-15 zoning for the
single family portion and R-15 versus R-40 zoning for the multi-family portion of the site
as a transition to adjacent zoning. Density should be reduced due to Heritage Middle
School and Rocky Mountain High School already being over capacity and desire for the
applicant to work with neighbors to address issues that were brought up at the hearing.
Commission changes to the staff recommendation. As I mentioned, the Commission
recommended denial of the proposed applications to City Council based on their desire
for the applicant to obtain approval from the city of Boise for the adjustment to the area
of city impact boundary and opinion that the applicant did not sufficiently work with
neighbors on their concerns pertaining to the proposed development. The only
outstanding issue for Council tonight -- if Council approves this project staff is
recommending a condition is added to require local street access to be provided on the
multi-family portion of the site to the abutting property to the east, which currently takes
access via State Highway 55 and Eagle Road in accord with UDC 11-3A3, which requires
all subdivisions to provide local street access to any use that currently takes direct access
from an arterial or a collector street. Written testimony since the Commission hearing.
There have been approximately 33 letters of testimony received since the Commission
hearing in July and so that -- that's about 80 letters total since the application was
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 31 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 11 of 74
submitted and primarily for recommending -- or requesting I should say denial of this
project. Staff will stand for any questions.
De Weerd: Thank you, Sonya. Council, questions for staff at this time? Okay. Is the
applicant here this evening? If you will, please, state your name and address for the
record.
Clark: I will. Hethe Clark. 251 East Front Street representing the applicant. And I do
have a PowerPoint and I think Sonya has got that well underway. Okay. Well, off we go.
Members of the Council, tonight we have before you an in-fill project that satisfies
Meridian's comp plan and planning for this area and provides housing in a sector that's
desperately needed in this city. As we begin I want to start out by talking a little bit about
the development itself and what's proposed and, then, from there we will talk about some
of the issues that have been raised over the -- over the course of this process. The current
phase of this project includes 85 single family homes, as was mentioned by Sonya.
Bearing to the east will be multi-family, as she mentioned, though, it is subject to a future
conditional use permit. This is the type of product that's planned for this project. There
will be a combination of single level and two level. The single level will be on the north
where you can see the areas in blue to help provide for a transition to those neighboring
properties. The anticipated buyer of this type of product is someone who is looking for
the -- you know, doesn't want a yard, wants to have maintenance taken care of, often
wants to downsize, could be an empty nester. That's the -- the typical person that would
be looking to buy here. As Sonya mentioned in terms of amenities I think it's important to
point out that for projects less than 20 acres only one amenity is required and in this
project we are presenting five, as she mentioned, that includes play structures, climbing
rocks, a shade structure, dome swing set and seating areas. These pictures kind of give
you an idea of what that will look like. These are from other developments that have been
done with very similar planning. So, now that you have an idea of what the project would
look like, I want to couch this as -- in terms of how it fits with Meridian's planning and its
Comprehensive Plan. So, this is where the project is located. I'm sure you are all very
familiar. This is located in the immediate vicinity of single family, multi-family, small
commercial, big box retail, and, you know, essential traffic corridors, Eagle and Ustick.
The property is currently bisected by the area of impact between the city of Boise and --
and the City of Meridian. As was discussed, we did go to the city of Boise and discuss
this with them and I know this was a significant point of discussion at P&Z. We did get
the city of Boise's final opinion on this and it -- on October 8th we discussed with them
factors that led us to believe that this was more appropriate for a development in Meridian.
Those included the fact that there are utilities on the north and south boundaries of the
property. This allows Meridian to close that loop. Boise was not in the same position to
be able to serve from a utility perspective and we thought it made a heck of a lot more
sense, given that these are going to be Meridian amenities in the area, that are likely
going to be taken advantage of by these residents, including parks and whatnot. So,
Boise city did agree. They had a couple of recommendations. The concerns that they
addressed -- or that they expressed during the course of that hearing were that they
wanted to see that there was density high enough proposed on this project to satisfy what
they had planned for. They mentioned that a couple of times. And they also wanted to
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 32 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 12 of 74
ensure that the property to the east is provided with a cross-access connection and we
think that we have provided -- we have addressed both of those by finding the -- kind of
the sweet spot between the densities that Meridian has -- has planned for and that the
city of Boise planned for in this property and one thing that I would mention with regard
to the -- the staff comment, which is the first that we have heard with regard to a local
road connection to the east, the city of Boise's letter said cross-access provided to the
east. We think that that actually is what makes the most sense here, because as you
know, Meridian's ordinances and ACHD's access policies are not going to allow for a new
access onto Eagle Road. That means that if there is a local road connection that goes to
the east, it's going to end up stubbing and stopping. In this case a cross-access, which
is what we have provided on our plans and have committed to, makes far more sense.
So, let's look at the Comprehensive Plan designations for the area. As you can imagine,
the Comprehensive Plan calls for a range of mixed uses with higher density in this
location. As Sonya mentioned for the area on the west there is no change proposed. It's
still the medium density that is proposed that is currently on the future land use map. For
the area coming in from the city of Boise we have proposed MUR for a number of reasons.
It matches what the Comprehensive Plan calls for given the proximity to Eagle Road, the
commercial uses and area facilities, including parks. Second, that designation most
closely matches Boise's mixed use designation, which previously applied to the property
and it's consistent with the Meridian future land use map designation for the property
that's currently to the south. The proposed density meets the requirements of Meridian
and Boise and provides for an appropriate transition, which you can see is a bit of a job
given the -- what is approved here. As you can see we need to transition from three units
per acre on the north and southwest to multi-family at 22 to 30 units per acre along our
southern boundary. This is also the previously mentioned commercial and retail
development that's in the area and, again, the two major traffic -- transit corridors with
Eagle and Ustick Road. This slide helps to -- helps you to see what the transition looks
like. This is the Brickyard development that's approved on the south. This is another look
at the -- at the Brickyard. You can see that the picture on the right kind of shows that
proximity. It's about 15 feet from that project to -- to our property line and I also do want
to mention a couple of Comprehensive Plan policies that I think are very important in
considering this project. There is three that I think deserve particular focus. The
Comprehensive Plan includes goals of providing a wide variety of housing types for all
income groups that is close to employment and shopping centers and near major access
thoroughfares. You will hear more about this as the night goes on, but this is high quality
housing at a more affordable price point than is generally being provided in Meridian.
There is a huge demand for this that is not being met. In terms of agency review, Meridian
Public Works has reviewed -- this does complete the sewer and water loops as I
previously mentioned. Also Suez -- depending on the outcome of tonight, but has already
indicated that they would release this property to be served by Meridian city. Fire
Department has issued a letter and that is approved. Police have indicated no objections.
And, of course, ACHD has approved this back in May. Now, there has been a high level
of interaction with the neighborhoods. We have -- even before that started we came to
this with a lot of thought and I want to kind of go through some of those thought processes
here. First, before we had any conversations with the neighbors we did propose single
story -- the single story limitation on the north and on the west that would help to transition.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 33 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 13 of 74
We also carefully reviewed what is actually built on the north side of the property and I
hope that this kind of helps describe what -- what we looked at. So, as you look from east
to west, each of these squares represents a building envelope. So, the duplex -- duplex
single. Moving where you see the label A, what you have there is we have shown what
our future home -- homes would look back on. So, A here represents A here. That --
those homes won't be looking back in an RV pad with trailers and small homes. As you
move west going to B, you can see what -- what would be adjacent to these future homes.
In that case it's another large pad with an RV -- it looks like RV parking and trailers.
Continuing west C you have an extremely wide lot, which is something that's fairly difficult
to plan for. But, again, if you look at C, most of what these homes would face would be
concrete pad and a shop, not the -- the living area on the back side. And, then, continuing
further west with E, you can see that there is a very -- very significant parking area back
there. We have -- you know, we have seen between four and six trailers parked in that
area. So, we have looked at this very closely. We have tried to make sure that -- we
have tried -- that we can minimize -- minimize that impact and we wanted to help you see
what kind of things we took into consideration in connection with that. In terms of
neighborhood interactions, four neighborhood meetings, three prior to even submittal,
again, on September 26th, 2019. On October 18th, 2019, Laren Bailey forwarded ACHD's
most recent letter. Again offered to meet. No response. There have been multiple plat
revisions, at least three that I'm aware of. In addition to that, we lobbied ACHD to -- a
temporary -- temporarily close the public road, which I will describe here in a moment.
And, then, we also requested an additional clarification letter from ACHD that was
provided just a couple weeks ago. So, with that I -- let's talk about what I think is going
to be the big issue tonight is going to be traffic. That's the issue that seems to come up
repeatedly in the comments. So, let's -- let's start with the planning. As you know, ACHD
and the City of Meridian both very much emphasized connectivity. We don't do cul-de-
sac subdivisions. We ensure that -- that subdivisions connect for a number of very good
reasons, including economics of maintenance, making sure that folks can get out to -- to
designated accesses on our arterials. All of these reasons are very important in terms of
ensuring that the conductivity is there and that's reflected in the planning for this site. This
is the ACHD master street map. It clearly shows a connection from Centrepoint through
this development and up to Wainwright as Sonya had mentioned. And I will show this in
a -- in a subsequent slide, but ACHD already has the -- the right of way for the Centrepoint
connection through Alpine Village, it's the -- this property that's intervening that is the part
that wouldn't be required to connect. So, this is how traffic will flow with the site.
Dashwood here on the left is a local street. It should not function as a collector. That's
why we worked with ACHD to provide for a temporary street closure that you can see
here in that location. That will help ensure that traffic from the south will not attempt to
use Dashwood in a way that it shouldn't be used. In other words, we don't want
Dashwood to become a de facto collector, it needs to remain a local street and so we
don't want that cut-through occurring. So, that's why the temporary street closure has
been proposed until such time as Centrepoint can be connected. Now, this orange area
here is what I had mentioned previously, that that is right of way that ACHD already has
and it's my understanding that the builder at that time contributed to the road trust to help
cover the cost of that -- of that road when it actually comes in. So, ultimately Centrepoint
will connect to Wainwright. When that occurs the temporary closure will be removed and
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 34 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 14 of 74
Centrepoint will carry the collector level traffic. Now, ACHD has reviewed and approved
this plan. It's satisfying its policies. They have since taken the fairly unusual step, at least
in my experience, of sending a follow-up letter, which is what you see on the screen today.
It confirms that Centrepoint Way, is well within capacity, only 55 percent build -- at build
out and it confirms that both ACHD and the City of Meridian require street -- excuse me
-- street connectivity. So, as I finish up let's talk a little bit about roadway capacities. For
the local streets at build out, the local street would be Dashwood. The local streets are
designed for 2,000 trips. The analysis that ACHD has approved shows 954 trips at build
out or -- or other -- in other words, less than half capacity. The mid mile collector street,
which is Wainwright, at build out will be at 45 percent of the design threshold during the
a.m.-p.m. peak, which is the measure that's used for that trip -- that category and, then,
Centrepoint at build out will be at 55 percent of design threshold. So, about half of
capacity for each of these roads. Now, we understand that all of this is going to feel like
a change. You know, everyone who lives in this area they are going to look at this and
they are going to experience a change. It's going to feel like a change. That perception
is not what ultimately counts when we are talking about these roadway matters. ACHD
has standards that are based on science, that are based on engineering, that require a
quantitative analysis to tell us where these roadways are in terms of their overall capacity.
That it helps ensure that there is a -- an efficient use of taxpayer resources to make sure
that there is a roadway network that is not being wasted, that actually carries the -- the
road -- the traffic that it's designed for. That's why ACHD approved this back in May. So,
with that I will conclude with just a couple of points and with only a couple of seconds left.
The project fully satisfies Meridian Comprehensive Plan. There is agency approval of this
that includes Boise city, which is not an agency, but they did have a pretty significant say
in the area of impact element. It provides desperately needed housing in Meridian and
the roadways are well within capacity. I had indicated that there was no modifications to
the proposed conditions of approval, but we would request that they are not be a local
street connection as suggested by staff.
De Weerd: Thank you for your comments. Council, any questions at this time?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I will just kind of jump around a little bit, but one of the topics that was brought up
by staff in the staff report is concern with regards to the water and sewer connectivity and
looping and a desire that property that's not part of this application, property to the north,
that maybe the Centrepoint Way would connect through, that that should come in, along
with something like this at one time, and some of the concerns included water and sewer
service issues. Were you able to visit with staff recently to try and reconcile that?
Clark: Madam Mayor, Council Member Borton, we -- it was raised I think just a couple of
minutes ago. The -- with regard to whether that property comes in with this application,
that's something that we can't control. There is nothing that we are doing here that would
preclude that connection through Wainwright to the neighboring property and so I don't
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 35 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 15 of 74
see this as being a -- something that precludes sewer or water access for that -- for that
property by any means.
Borton: And -- Madam Mayor. And it might be -- maybe it might be feasible, but there
was some concern and I might ask Sonya or Warren to comment on it, to kind of give us
some better context in what the concern rose to the level of -- almost a basis to not
approve it. So, it's a pretty grave concern that I'm going to get my head around. So, I
don't know if --
De Weerd: Warren, can you go ahead and -- and comment on -- on the staff notations
on this particular issue? You want to turn on your mic. Yes.
Stewart: I thought it was one.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Stewart: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Councilman Borton, we did -- we did
look at this. Obviously in Wainwright there is a water and sewer stub that comes out to
the -- essentially what ends up being the Meridian city limit boundary going east on
Wainwright. Eventually we would like to see that come down the Centrepoint Way and
provide some connectivity to our water system. We can currently serve this development
as proposed with water and sewer without that connection and it would be advantageous
at some point in the future if we can make another connection, but it is not necessary in
order to serve this and as was noted it doesn't preclude that from happening in the future
if that -- that property to the north does come in, then, that connection can be made.
Clark: Madam Mayor, if I can maybe add to that. The thought that occurs to me is that
when we evaluated this application one of the primary reasons why we are in front of
Meridian was because the proximity of Meridian utilities, you know, to be able to serve
the project. My expectation is that if and when that property to the north develops they
are going to go through that exact same analysis and they are going to look at it and say,
hey, we have got Meridian here and here and we have got Boise clear over here. So,
you know, we -- we think we need to come to Meridian. We expect that that's what's going
to happen. We, obviously, can't speculate as to what that property owner is going to
ultimately decide, but I expect that the analysis will be very similar to what we have gone
through.
De Weerd: Any further questions, Mr. Borton?
Borton: Not at this point.
De Weerd: Okay.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 36 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 16 of 74
Cavener: Hethe, I'm going to give you a chance to kind of address some -- just because
I assume there is going to be a lot of questions and comments about neighbor
engagement. We have received a lot of feedback and concern and your narrative touched
on the meetings that you had and if I noticed correctly the one meeting after Planning and
Zoning you said there was no response. So, I'm hoping maybe for Council and for those
here that are in attendance, you can kind of outline what approach you made to connect
with those neighbors, specifically the ones that spoke in opposition at P&Z, to at least
help us understand where the disconnect is between -- like -- it sounds like you attempted
to do and it not landing maybe with the neighbors.
Clark: Uh-huh. Council Member Cavener, I think -- Council Member Cavener, I would --
I just wanted to clarify that there was one meeting after P&Z, there was a September 26
meeting and we had 16 -- a lot of neighbors there. I personally wasn't there. So, if there
are questions about what specifically was said there I can have members of the -- of the
applicant team come help answer those questions.
Cavener: Madam Mayor. Hethe, can you pull up that slide that showed --
Clark: Yeah.
Cavener: I want to get on September 26. I just jumped to the October -- okay. Thank
you.
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: Madam Mayor. Thank you. Thank you for your presentation this evening, Mr.
Clark. I got a quick question for you in regard to schools. You mentioned a lot of reports
from our stakeholder partners. What were some thoughts in regard to the schools? I
didn't -- I didn't hear you mention in your report -- or in your presentation about West Ada.
Clark: Madam Mayor, Commissioner -- Council Member Bernt, I appreciate that question.
Yeah. The -- you know, obviously, West Ada is dealing with population growth and trying
to keep up with that and that's a -- that's a significant challenge. When we have spoken
with them the suggestion was to defer until fall of 2020 to allow for Owyhee High School
to come online. That -- I think there is a couple of responses to that. First is that we are
only at the preliminary plat process stage right now. We are not going to have residents
until fall of 2020. So, that's -- that's one point. You know, second, we think our residents
are going to help provide the solution and why I say that is that our -- our product is -- is
largely purchased by folks without children. We generate far less than what's typical and
we will have some folks talking about that tonight. So, hopefully, that helps to -- to address
that situation by generating property tax. And, finally, I think just the -- I will just be frank,
I think that the district's comments can put the city in a tough position. You are having to
ask yourself whether you are putting together a moratorium on all development until these
things can be addressed. That's -- that's a hard space for you to be in. But in the end,
given our -- our timing, we think that we will -- we won't be having folks living in this -- in
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 37 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 17 of 74
this place until Owyhee High School is online and that's the high school that the -- the
school district has mentioned -- identified in particular as the concern.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any further questions at this point?
Bongiorno: Madam Mayor? Over here. Fire marshal table.
De Weerd: Sorry, Joe. I just always hear your voice and think --
Bongiorno: Where is that coming from.
De Weerd: -- where is it coming from.
Bongiorno: I just had two quick questions. I heard something about an eight foot no
man's land at the road closure. What -- I have never seen that. What's that about? And,
then, my second question is how are we blocking the road?
Bailey: Madam Mayor, Councilmen --
De Weerd: If you can first say your name and address.
Bailey: Sure. Laren Bailey. My business address is -- apparently I can't remember my
business address. It's -- sorry about that. Fairview Avenue. Boise, Idaho. Mr. Bongiorno,
to answer that question -- so, when he said no man's land, there will be open right of way
there. We will have a fire access road that meets department standards for -- for fire
apparatus to travel one of our emergency vehicles and, then, as far as how we gate that,
we will definitely work with -- with you on what you would like to see there. I don't think
we have a preference whether -- but it would be Fire Department approved, obviously,
with -- with whatever -- lock boxes or whatever we need to have there.
Bongiorno: Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. We do enter into the public testimony. We do give HOA
presidents ten minutes and I do understand that Alpine Pointe HOA is here and when we
call his name or her name we will allot ten minutes to the president. Mr. Borton.
Borton: Madam Mayor, I apologize. I was going to ask one more question of Hethe if I
could.
De Weerd: I'm sorry.
Borton: Sorry. I meant to catch you before you sat down. So, from the Planning and
Zoning Commission hearing, right, in their recommendation of denial through today, can
you -- can you summarize what you understood their recommendation to be based on as
you understood it? And -- and, then, from that hearing to today what, if anything, changed
in the application to address those concerns --
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 38 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 18 of 74
Hall: Madam --
Borton: -- taking Boise -- Boise's withdrawal of the area of impact aside, because we
know that's accomplished. What were some of the other concerns and, then, how were
they specifically addressed to bring it to us tonight.
Clark: Madam Mayor, Council Member Borton, so one thing I will mention as kind of a
procedural item and I think this might be something that might be helpful for the city to
consider doing in the future, because it would help applicants. Oftentimes when there is
a Planning and Zoning recommendation, that recommendation in other jurisdictions is
typically adopted within a week or two of the planning and zoning action and, then, there
is a separate staff report prior to the city council. So, in this case, you know, in reviewing
the Planning and Zoning recommendation as reflected by staff's notes, it was two items.
It was the city of Boise and it was work with the neighbors. The -- the other concerns
were discussed, but as I read the -- what appears to be the Planning and Zoning written
adopted recommendation is those two items. So, obviously, the -- this Boise city element
has been taken care of. Boise city is in agreement that this should go in Meridian. The
other question was the -- working with the neighbors element and, as I mentioned, there
has been a meeting -- an offer for another meeting. It's -- it's a -- as you know, that's a --
that can be a do loop of -- but, you know, there has -- there has been a good faith offer to
-- to talk to the neighbors through these issues.
Borton: Madam Mayor? And not to belabor, I just think it's really important to hear early
on before the public comments some of the -- the areas that were identified to us as areas
of concern in their discussion, which might not have been a change as part of the
recommendation, but it referenced the Dashwood Place access and capacity, adequacy
of parking, the school density that Councilman Bernt referenced and --
De Weerd: Transition.
Borton: -- and the transition. Thank you, Madam Mayor. Those are just some of the --
those are some of the discussion concerns that came up. I presume that they at least
provided some context to the recommendation for denial. So, I just wanted to see if there
was anything that changed or if the position of the applicant is those concerns are either
not -- don't warrant the change in your opinion or they have otherwise been addressed in
a way that we haven't identified.
Clark: Madam Mayor, Council Member Borton, I appreciate the question. It makes a lot
of sense. So, with regard to Dashwood Way and the capacity, we think that that is
addressed and that's reflected in the ACHD staff report. It's my understanding that there
are proposals out there that would -- would have Dashwood cut off by -- by various means,
whether it would be by bisecting the property with -- and using cul-de-sacs and a gate on
the north. We don't think that that would be approved by ACHD or the City of Meridian
given your connectivity requirements. And, then, remind me what the final item was that
you had mentioned.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 39 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 19 of 74
Borton: Parking.
Clark: Parking. So, parking we are above code. We have the -- every location at this
property has four parking spaces, two garage, two driveway, and, then, you have the
offset -- the on-street parking that Sonya had previously mentioned. Now parking is an
interesting one for this, because this product -- you are probably not going to have 40
people showing up for the Superbowl party. These are -- these are small homes. You
are going to have a couple people may be coming by. We think most of the parking is
going to be addressed by on -- on site, but if it's not, then, there is adequate on-street
parking. And I do have -- well, actually, Sonya showed you the -- the parking, but this is
-- this is how that -- how that works out.
Borton: Madam Mayor. Sorry. Just one other. The last slide I guess it shows the parking,
but it reminded me of Jasmine Lane being a private street and I recall us getting into
snags when private -- you know, two public streets are connected by a private street and
it is intended to remain private.
Clark: So, Madam Mayor, Council Member Borton, so the Jasmine as it extends east is
intended to end at that point, that there would be internal easement based cross-access
provided to the property to the east and we think that that's the most appropriate outcome,
because, again, ACHD is not going to allow a connection onto Eagle and so a -- this
should be handled the typical way in these types of developments, which is there would
be internal cross-access that can be designed to satisfy our concerns, because we are
the ones that are going to end up building it and still allow for our neighbor to be able to
come back in and get to that mid mile collector and up and out.
Borton: Madam Mayor. If Jasmine is private long term we are going to have Centrepoint,
public street, private street Jasmine, Centrepoint, Dashwood. Am I misunderstanding
how you might wind through that heading from the north -- south to the north -- ultimate
build out that you can come north on Centrepoint, take a left on Dash -- or on Jasmine.
Correct?
Clark: Correct.
Borton: And then -- which would be a private street.
Clark: That would just be an internal cross-access easement.
Borton: Right. But is the street itself private or public?
Clark: West? Oh.
Borton: Yeah. Going West. Thank you. Going west.
Clark: Yeah.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 40 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 20 of 74
Borton: So, you're heading north --
Clark: Oh, I misunderstood. Yes. So, your -- Council Member Borton, what you're talking
about is not this connection --
Borton: Right.
Clark: -- you're talking down here and that is public.
Borton: Oh, Jasmine is public?
Clark: Uh-huh.
Borton: Okay. Okay. I saw some reference to it being a private street, but maybe that's
the current condition.
Clark: Council Member Borton, I think where the confusion might be coming from is I
think what staff was talking about was continuing Jasmine east as a private street. That
that may be where the confusion comes from.
Borton: So, there is no private streets involved.
Clark: Correct.
Borton: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay.
Borton: Thanks.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Clark: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Clerk.
Johnson: Madam Mayor, there are 32 sign-ins. Of those eight wish to testify. First -- first
is Patricia Fitzer.
De Weerd: The HOA certainly can go first.
Johnson: Madam Mayor, the only person listing that they were an HOA and wishing to
speak is Malissa Bernard.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 41 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 21 of 74
De Weerd: And that is the HOA representative. Okay. We will go ahead and -- and ask
the HOA representative to provide the comments first and -- thank you. If you will, please,
state your name and address for the record.
Bernard: I'm Malissa Bernard. I live at 4025 North Dashwood Place and that's in
Meridian.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Bernard: I would probably like to start this out with saying about the neighborhood
meeting. We had a neighborhood meeting on the 26th of September, two hours and 40
minutes, and the applicant said we aren't changing density. We aren't changing the roads.
We aren't changing anything about this application. So, when you are met with that much
resistance and you are invited to be -- put through another two hours and 40 minutes or
a request that was submitted on the 18th of October, well, you could understand why we
decided to decline. So, just to clear that up, when we have that long of meeting and it
satisfies the city of Boise's city council, it doesn't satisfy the City of Meridian P&Z
requirement. There was no sign-in sheets that is required for the City of Meridian. So, I
thought I would clear that up first.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Bernard: Okay. I would like to say that probably the main problems that we are having
with this application is process as number one. There are six, possibly seven violations
of the application process for pre-application. Also for meetings. There happens to be
sign violations. There happens to be application dates and application pre-meetings.
There was a pre-application meeting in February of 2018 and the application was turned
in and, I'm sorry, February 2018 was a pre-application meeting and the application was
turned in in February of 2019. Your city code and ordinances require four months after a
pre-application meeting for the application to be turned in. Also your ordinances and UDC
requires that five days after a neighborhood meeting can -- the application be turned in.
One day after a neighborhood meeting the application was turned in. We were -- there
was a City Council meeting that couldn't even be heard, because they didn't post the sign.
There was no public notification posted on the site. So, therefore, there was another date
that had to come up for that. Furthermore, the applicant does not come and pick up
signage as you can see from the exhibit that I turned in to you. Laren Bailey, the applicant,
signed, not realizing the sign process and when you're supposed to drop them off, when
you're supposed to post them, when you're supposed to pick them up. There is more
than several violations of that. So, we have six, possibly seven violations of the pre-
application and also with public hearing notice on that. Sonya, could you pull up my --
Allen: Can you see it there? I'm not sure which one it is.
Bernard: Let's see. Nope. None of --
Allen: Not on there?
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 42 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 22 of 74
Bernard: No. No. None of --
Allen: I'm very sorry, just a moment.
Bernard: Okay.
Allen: I'm not sure where he put it. Let me look.
Borton: Madam Mayor? You -- you reference in the November 5th information --
Bernard: The information -- sorry, sir.
Borton: Oh, the November 5th letter that you --
Bernard: Yes. That's the November 5th letter that I had sent and also I believe at the last
City Council meeting I also turned in something very similar as an exhibit. So, I wanted
to address the possible illegality and is this even something we should be hearing at this
time. So, Sonya, I do have a zip drive.
Allen: Is this your presentation?
Bernard: Oh, there we go. Thank you very much.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Bernard: Okay. There we go. As you know, Alpine Pointe -- we had 241 residents signed
a letter saying that we are against this in its current form and also there were seven -- or,
I'm sorry, now there is 80 items of testimony for saying why we are against this item. Also
we chose our homes carefully and in good faith. The commercial collector is now a grassy
strip right now. We have never seen a sign for it. In fact, until 2018 on the master street
map plans, that was the only time that was revealed to the public where we could access
online to see the plans for that street. Furthermore, Dashwood was never signed as to
be continued in the future. In 2011 you can go to Google Street -- street maps and you
can see every other stub happens to be signed to be continued in the future. So, we
bought our homes in good faith and we also did our research and we made decisions
based on the public signs that we had available to us. As you can see -- oh, can you go
back. I'm having a little bit of trouble driving this. Sonya, could you do three? Right there.
Oh. Okay. There we go. As you can see that this application is just part of the problem
that's coming into the future. We have six ingress-egress points at this time and we are
going to get three in the future very soon. This is -- also there is a future light at Troxel
Wingate that's coming, which is going to cause some cut through when the parcel
connects at Conley and Rogue River north of Champion Park. So, not only is this
application going to bring future traffic, it's also going to stress Wainwright as people try
to seek a way east-west, north-south and it seems like our neighborhood is bearing the
brunt of some poor planning, because we are the ones that are -- that are primarily going
to be carrying most of the traffic east-west and north-south. As you can see, we have
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 43 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 23 of 74
approximately 35 acres of in-fill property and we need to be very careful on how these
are developed. Primarily we have the Brickyard and 80 four-plex units to the south of us.
So, we already have 1,000 new souls that are going to be living to the south of us and so
with these 35 acres, if you reach maximum -- maximum -- maximum density potentials on
this, you could add another thousand to two thousand people. So, all that's in a very tight
footprint. As you can see there is quite a disparity between the two parcels that you are
going to be throwing together, Dashwood and Brooksburg. You could fit probably about
65 homes if you used the common areas as well and that's just on the dirt. That's not the
streets, that's -- you're going to get 65 of these Delano homes on there and as you can
see on garbage day where do you park without blocking someone's driveway or even not
even on garbage day. So, I don't see how this is very compatible or complementary type
of property plan to put here. As you can see here, this is how it's going to look. This is a
copy and pasted sort of depiction of what's going to happen. As you can see north
towards Dashwood there is going to be quite a few buildings bordering our homes. One
neighbor is going to have seven roofs to look at and possibly nine in the periphery. Also
you are going to know Centrepoint Way is going to be heavily used and it runs right behind
Brooksburg. What I would suggest is an R-15 for the Cook parcel to kind of buffer some
density. I realized that you are going to need to put something there. The city of Boise
it's -- they did not require high density. They never said so at the public hearing. It could
be anywhere between six and 40 for mixed use regional and also the Enzler parcel,
formerly the Ketlinski parcel that was to the west of that, that's currently in flux. They are
probably going to want the Jasmine Lane to go and connect to get to that portion of the
property. There was a thing about the capacity on the threshold for Centrepoint Way. As
you can see from the ACHD report it's going to be nowhere near -- near capacity. So,
honestly, the whole Delano project could be supported by Centrepoint Way without
involving Dashwood. Now, there has been decommissioned stubs before based on
however that property is going to relate to others. You did so at Three Corners Ranch.
You decommissioned two stub streets because of connectivity. So, it's possible to
consider that or to move the gate to Dashwood instead and have the same ten year
moratorium. That might probably be the best fit for this situation. And also it can be bike
and pedestrian open, just -- you know, everything would be just fine. I'm not very good at
this. I'm sorry. Okay. There is other ways that we can get connectivity here. There is
some concern with the Long parcel being forced into an eminent domain situation. What
we could probably do is try to rethink -- how we rethink these roads and the land uses. If
we redo some roads, there are some possibilities to help with the flow in this area and
also the extension of Jasmine Way could be part of the pathway system, too. So, that's
something to consider for the future. There have been three neighborhood meetings and
as you can see there has been very little deviation from the plan. Everything's pretty
much the same. We have always asked for a reduction in density. Rejigging of roads,
things that are much more complementary and harmonious to our neighborhood. Other
plans would meet requirements -- ACHD and city requirements. You could have hundreds
of different possibilities that would be acceptable for your policies and also per ACHD.
So, we would ask that you deny this application for procedure, for density, for
inappropriate product in comparison to our neighborhood. The streets are too skinny. I
think they are a fire hazard. I think there is not adequate parking -- parking south of
Jasmine. If you know human nature, most people aren't going to park far away from their
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 44 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 24 of 74
homes and also if that's the public street and a thoroughfare, I don't think a bunch of cars
in the way is really the best way to go about it. It's very stingy on usable green space. I
feel there should be an increase at the park. And we are already poised to be high density
heavy. If we can have some sort of buffer -- some sort of transition, because we can
possibly have thousands and thousands of people to the south of us. Thank you. Please
deny this application. Thank you. Do you have any questions?
De Weerd: Council, questions?
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: Thank you. Thank you, Mrs. Bernard, for your presentation. I would like to go
back a couple of slides and look at the presentations that were up.
De Weerd: Sonya can -- don't worry.
Bernard: All right. Thank you, Sonya.
Bernt: Just the renderings that were shown at the -- at the meetings. I think it was like
three slides from the end. Thank you. Let me stare at this for a second.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Malissa, nice to see you again. Thanks for being here. I feel like the last time
you were here I complimented you on representing your homeowners association. You
exceeded that again here tonight. I think they should probably double your pay or maybe
even triple your pay.
Bernard: I work for free.
Cavener: I think the most unthankful job in government is being a part of a homeowner's
association. So, thanks for doing that. I did have a question. You commented -- and,
Sonya, if you want to drive back to any one of the pictures that kind of shows -- you had
a great exhibit that shows kind of what it would look like and, then, with the houses next
to it and during that you said that you had a neighbor that was going to have seven
rooftops next to them and I missed that. So, I didn't know where that is on there and if
you could point that to me --
Bernard: Okay. Let's see. Oh, I see which one. Okay. Great. All right. There is -- right
there there is a -- a property that probably has about --
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 45 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 25 of 74
Cavener: Madam Mayor. Malissa, sorry, can you use the mouse to show me where right
there is.
Bernard: Okay. Sorry about that.
Cavener: That's okay.
Bernard: Right -- right here there is a neighbor who has probably -- oh, got like more than
200 feet of frontage and she's going to see -- she and her husband are going to see about
seven rooftops directly and, then, two others peripherally. So, she will have the sight lines
of nearly nine homes there from her backyard and the setback is only 12 feet.
Cavener: Madam Mayor. Just -- I want to make sure I'm clear. You're kind of referring
to, essentially, two, almost three quarters of the homes on Della Street are going to be in
their periphery is what you are --
Bernard: Yes. Yes. At least three quarters. Yes.
Cavener: Okay. Thank you very much.
Bernard: Okay. Thank you. Any other questions? I also had a question about the
procedure.
Cavener: Oh. Yeah. Madam Mayor. Sorry. I wanted to get -- jump to that.
Bernard: Oh. Okay.
Cavener: I don't know who the appropriate person is. Mr. Nary, there was a lot of
questions and claims about procedural violations and what, if any, action -- I think even
Malissa suggested that we shouldn't even be hearing this tonight, so I was hoping you
could provide some context for us.
Nary: Certainly, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. So, I have been reviewing the
letter that she has provided from the November 5th date on the top. So, none of these
prohibit you from hearing this. So, this is not illegal for you to hear this. You do have
some questions here about process that I think you need some answer in regards to --
one of the -- one of the concerns raised is the pre-ap meeting and pre-ap meeting is held
almost a year prior to the application being submitted. I have no idea what occurred in
that year. So, I think Planning can answer that question on what -- what occurred in that
time period and if that is unsatisfactory to this Council you can deny the application, you
can remand it, you can do whatever action is appropriate. The next one was regarding
the -- there was an issue regarding a meeting and when the application was submitted,
that it was submitted a day after the neighborhood meeting. Again, I don't know the
reason. I think the applicant needs to answer that question. You could determine whether
or not you feel that is fatal. There was a question regarding some noticing. We actually
did -- I recall this. We did schedule -- we scheduled a public hearing in August of 2019
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 46 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 26 of 74
because it wasn't noticed properly. So, what the court -- this Council did set it to a future
date, so it could be noticed properly. That's not a flaw in the process. There is an issue
regarding removal of signs. Part of the problem that's always existed in signs is that this
property isn't in the city. So, the city ordinance doesn't apply to the property, because we
can't enforce the sign ordinance on a property that's outside of the city. So, it is a directive,
but if the Council considers that to be significant you can certainly remand this if you wish.
But the failure to remove the sign is not fatal to you hearing this application. Everything
else in this is really -- again, it's your direction on what you would like to do and there are,
obviously, some answers that I think warrant an answer -- and a question that warrants
an answer in regard to the pre-app, as well as some of the neighborhood contacts and
such. But none of those are fatal to you hearing it. It is a condition, a consideration you
may make in your decision.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Nary. Any further questions at this time? Thank you.
Bernard: Thank you.
De Weerd: Mr. Clerk.
Johnson: Madam Mayor, there was no other persons indicating they are with an HOA,
so Patricia Pitzer.
De Weerd: Okay. And -- and just -- I thought that was really nice for Malissa, but if we
will hold our applause that would be -- yes. Good evening. If you will, please, state your
name and address for the record.
Pitzer: Thank you. Patricia Pitzer. 2703 East Wainwright Drive in Meridian.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Pitzer: Thank you, Honorable Mayor, Member -- or sorry. Mayor, Members of the Council.
A lot of what I wanted to touch on tonight was already touched on, so in the essence of
time and condensity of all of this, I'm just going to cut down to the pieces that I think were
not touched on. One being the P&Z. When the -- when we met back in July many of the
members there had a lot of trouble with the subdivision. In going through this and saying
we would want to deny it and should we do this -- and addressing all the issues that we
are having here, Mr. Parsons stepped in and said Council is the decision making body,
so when we go forward with denial we, essentially, strike all the conditions. So, all the
conditions they were talking about were striked and so it looks like it's coming down to
just two items, but in reality there were many more, including the density and the traffic
and the schools and et cetera. He went on to say let the Council determine whether or
not they want to redesign, then, they can remand it back to the P&Z, which is hoping what
-- we hope that you do is deny this based upon points that Malissa has already brought
up. The density. The lack of working with us as neighbors. He spoke to the fact that he
spoke with us individually. Never happened. The October 18th meeting -- I am an
adjoining property owner. I never received anything for October 18th. He says I have
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 47 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 27 of 74
four trailers in my backyard. I guarantee you I do not have four trailers in my backyard. I
guess that's about it. I'm not very good at this either.
De Weerd: You did just fine. Thank you. Council, any questions? Thank you for your
testimony.
Pitzer: Thank you.
Johnson: Madam Mayor, next is Greg Walker.
Walker: Greg Walker. 2403 East Honeywood Court. I'm a neighbor.
De Weerd: Greg, can you pull the --
Walker: Yes. Sorry.
De Weerd: -- microphone closer --
Walker: Madam Mayor, Council Members. Just a couple of comments here. You know,
the public process is really about compromise. There has really been no compromise
here by DevCo at all. In fact, I would say I'm fairly disappointed with this whole process.
There is -- we have been to every -- look around this room, there is a tremendous number
of people representing our -- our neighborhood and there has been no compromise. If
anything -- if you look back at Malissa Bernard's photo of the three different
developments, the density has gone up. This is really more about maximizing profit for
DevCo, rather than trying to be a good neighbor or a good citizen. We built our houses
in good faith and we understand that this was not really planned that well. Center -- or
Wainwright Road is not really a collector. If you look there is frontages to it. So, you
know, we built our -- in good -- in good faith and I just don't think that -- if you look at it, all
of us are here to stay. We built our houses. This is my retirement home. This is where I
want to live. So, I'm going to stay. DevCo is coming in, they are going to build a bunch
of houses and they are going to leave and I don't think the residents and the transition
that we are creating here really fits the master plan where they are saying, hey, it's
supposed to be a nice smooth transition from one type of housing to another. This is not
a smooth transition. This is going from half acre lots to 80 -- 80 houses in a -- in a ten
acre area. So, this is a huge step for -- in density and, honestly, nothing has changed
since the Planning and Zoning denial. They have gone and got the -- the change of -- the
transfer of land and that's it. The meeting with us was purely because they were required
to and they did come in with an attitude of we are not changing anything. That's how they
have been throughout this entire process. So, we have made off -- if you look at Malissa
Bernard's testimonies throughout the -- throughout the entire time, our neighborhood
understands this land is going to get developed. We know it's going to get developed.
We are not opposed to it getting developed properly. We have offered multiple solutions.
If you look back at the -- all the input we have tried diligently to work with DevCo, but they
have been totally unwilling to change anything, other than what they want to change for
their benefit. That's all I have. Thank you very much. Any questions?
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 48 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 28 of 74
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Walker.
Bernt: Mr. Walker?
De Weerd: Yes.
Bernt: Madam Mayor, thank you.
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: You mentioned solutions and I'm interested to hear what your solutions were. If
you look back at the testimony from Malissa Bernard, she has offered I would say three
or four different opportunity -- different ideas on how to connect this and how to do
different things and they have just been -- sorry -- they have been totally unwilling to make
any compromises. Like I said, the public process really should be about compromise and
trying to come to a solution that satisfies both parties. There has not been a give and
take relationship, it has been strictly one sided.
Bernt: Thank you, Mr. Walker. One follow up, Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Bernt: So, basically, what you're saying is your solutions have more to do with
connectivity, as opposed to density.
Walker: No. I believe we have talked about density and connections and everything. So,
you know, there has been no compromise, there has been no coming to the meetings
and saying, hey, what do you think of this. It's been here is what we are doing and the
public process has been used to their advantage. I think they are better at it than the
neighborhood associations and they are better at it than the public and they have used
that quite well to their advantage. I don't feel like the neighborhood association has had
really any say in this process. The neighbors or the neighborhood association.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: I'm sorry, Mr. Walker.
Borton: I was going to catch you on a question.
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: To follow up on Councilman Bernt's question. Amongst all the written testimony
we have received from -- from all of the residents and interested parties that's been
referenced, there is the April 29th letter from Mrs. Bernard to P&Z that might be something
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 49 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 29 of 74
that you are referencing, where she cites solutions or her proposed solutions and one of
them was hinted on earlier in the discussion and it is regarding Dashwood Place to the
north being an emergency connector utilizing bollards.
Walker: Uh-huh.
Borton: Were you -- if you were at the Planning and Zoning Commission, can you provide
some context on how that discussion -- what happened at P&Z with that?
Walker: If you look back at the Planning and Zoning records, you will find that the
Planning and Zoning team said -- they complemented Mrs. Bernard on her -- on the fact
that she had done so much work and so much research on size of roads, connectivity,
turnarounds, everything else, saying, you know, the public generally comes into these
and just says no; right? But she took the extra steps to offer other solutions and they
were very complimentary to her on all these different solutions, but I don't think any of
them were considered seriously by Delano or DevCo. So, you would have to look back
at the Planning and Zoning record. They were offered and I believe the -- the -- I don't
know if the presentation was kept as part of the record or not, but I -- I'm very certain that
Malissa Bernard could provide that to you.
Bernt: Okay.
Borton: And, Madam Mayor, I'm referencing the letter that has the list of
recommendations from April, so -- I think that's what you were -- one of the earlier
references you were probably tying to a recommended solution. Thank you.
Walker: You bet. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Johnson: Madam Mayor, next is Kenneth Clifford.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Johnson: Next is Laura T. I'm going to wait to hear it myself.
De Weerd: There are just some last names people don't even want to try and mutilate.
Thank you for joining us.
Trairatnobhas: I should make him say it before I say it. I am Laura Trairatnobhas. I live
at 4621 North Camas Creek Way, which is in Alpine Pointe.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Trairatnobhas: If anyone actually believes that the proposed Delano Subdivision will be
full of quiet little retirees, I suggest you go take a look at Solterra. Solterra is here in
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 50 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 30 of 74
Meridian. It's another development that was built by DevCo. Solterra is nearly identical
to Delano in that you have a ring of duplexes and inside that you have a large group of
two story, very narrow -- I call them townhomes, but they are not connected. Solterra is
most certainly not full of retirees. I believe it's purchased mostly by investors and it is full
of families with children. I know this, because I'm one of the investors who purchased a
home in Solterra, which I rent out. It has four bedrooms and there are six people living in
the home, including a couple of teenagers. If you drive into Solterra I think you will see
the future of the Delano. Every garage is chock full and there is no room for cars. We
have to be realistic. This is Idaho, folks. We have homes and garages that are full of
outdoor equipment, play stuff, stuff to go camping with and fishing and hunting and all the
things we Idahoans love to do. We do not have neat, empty garages. Even our retirees
do those things. They don't have neat empty garages, they out having fun and a lot of
them have big motorhomes, just like we do in Alpine Pointe. So, I do not believe that
you're going to have retirees in Delano. I believe that you will have families with children
and teenagers and they will not be parking in their garage, they will be parking on the
streets. Another example from Solterra. During Snowmageddon, which I think most of
us here remember, maybe not too fondly in the case of Mayor Tammy and the other folks
who were working in the Council at that time, the snowplows couldn't get in because all
the people who were parked on both sides of the streets. Their cars were snowed in and
I actually had to walk in at that time. My house was not yet occupied and I had to actually
walk in in order to check on it and take an eye on it. So, parking -- we talk about ideals,
we talk about numbers, we talked about formulas as far as how many cars are going to
go through our neighborhoods, how many people will be driving through little Dashwood
with all these houses facing the street. How many people will be going in? These are
based on formulas, but are they based on the reality of what life is like here in our valley.
I would just like to point all of you to the elections that we recently had for mayors and city
councils. Political analysts throughout the valley agreed that the voters who came out
and voted were saying to our councils and our mayors, we need you to handle growth.
That's what we need for you to do. Please don't just sit by and let it happen. Handle it
for us. Thank you very much. Do you have any questions?
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions?
Trairatnobhas: Besides how to pronounce my name.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Trairatnobhas: Okay. All right. Thank you.
Johnson: Madam Mayor, next is Alison Crane.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Crane: Hello.
De Weerd: If you will, please, state your name and address for the record.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 51 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 31 of 74
Crane: Alison Crane and I'm at 2654 East Mahoney Street. I'm probably the one person
not from Alpine Pointe here. We live in Champion Park. So, I will show you my -- I'm just
going to use this. I'm right there. We are like the one house that's impacted by this
subdivision, which I would not necessarily say I'm completely opposed to as -- as -- and
have the same concerns as everybody else, but mostly on the applicant's information
there are -- and you will see those -- the row of -- oops. Got to use my mouse. Sorry.
The row of trees, which is basically the only division we have. The house when we
purchased it did not have any trees and we have a concrete pad. So, we can't put trees
right there. Right where that mouse is. And so the -- the applicant did state that they
would keep trees as possible, but we are hoping that they could -- if not possible to
replace, because that is really the only division that they have. The back -- that roadway
to the back of our property is at -- at the lowest point is about 17 feet, which is pretty close,
and when you are adding sidewalks, we weren't -- we weren't real sure that they had done
a lot of research on that piece, so that was really our only comment that we had. Thank
you.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Any questions from Council?
Borton: Yeah, I have got --
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Sure. Your -- your September 17th letter has a requested condition of approval.
Crane: And that was just the -- with the trees, that if -- if it was approved that if -- sorry.
That if any tree -- because it says they would try to keep the trees if possible. So, if they
weren't able to keep trees because of sidewalk -- you know, putting in sidewalks or
anything like that, that they would replace the landscaping with additional trees. We really
like the trees. And we -- we purchased this house in the end of March of this year. So,
we did not come in at the very beginning. I think our previous -- the previous homeowners,
who we knew, had been in contact with DevCo and they had -- had worked with them to
try to include those trees to make sure that those -- those did stay. There are quite
established trees.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Crane: Thank you.
Johnson: Madam Mayor, next is Debbie Jeske.
De Weerd: Thank you for joining us. If you will, please, state your name and address for
the record.
Jeske: Of course. Debbie Jeske and I live at 1886 North Chandra Avenue, Meridian,
Idaho.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 52 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 32 of 74
De Weerd: Thank you.
Jeske: I am a homeowner in Solterra and I was asked by the Delano developer to conduct
a survey to see how many school-aged children are in this established neighborhood,
because it will reflect on similar expectations in Delano. There are 89 homes in Solterra.
Sixty-five participated in this survey. The survey was conducted October 26th to
November 7th of 2019.
De Weerd: You want to stop the time, Mr. Clerk.
Jeske: Of the 65 homes, 11 households had school aged children. Of the 11 they
reported a total of 27 school aged children. Of those 27, only eight were new to the school
district. So, in summary, out of the 65 households in Solterra there are only eight children
added to the West Ada School District. Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any questions? Thank you.
Jeske: Thank you.
Johnson: Madam Mayor, the last sign in is Will Dilmore.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Dilmore: Good evening. Will Dilmore. 1979 North Locust Grove, Meridian.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Dilmore: To follow up on the testimony just for -- regarding the schools. I am here to
speak first in favor of the Delano Subdivision. Just a follow up regarding that school
survey, I was the agent on site at Solterra development for three years. Of those 27 kids
mentioned, again, only eight were new to the area. The other 19 kids noted in the survey
were already in the West Ada School District. That's only eight kids out of 65 households
that participated in the survey that were new to the district. With our clientele we see a
lot of buyers that are recently divorced, downsizing or moving out of an apartment and
trying to keep their kids in the same schools. We have seen this trend throughout all of
the previous developments. We expect to see the same thing in Delano. I have been a
real estate agent in the valley for the last 25 years and have been working with BlackRock
on this product for the last six years. This is the product that was built in Solterra
Subdivision, again being proposed for Delano. Looking to put up a slide here. I'm looking
to do a narrative. I'm your agent. You are the buyer. You come to me. I want to buy a
home in Meridian. I want new construction and I want it to be under 325,000. So, I'm
going to go into my multiple listing service and I type in all of Meridian new homes under
325,000. Here is what I found. There is a total of 80 homes in all of Meridian that are
currently available under 325,000. All homes. Townhomes. Single level. One story,
1,200 square feet, 2,000 square feet -- all new homes. This represents only six weeks of
inventory, meaning if builders stop building today Meridian would be out of new home
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 53 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 33 of 74
inventory within six weeks. As you can see on the overhead slide, 86 percent of the new
homes were supplied by one builder. BlackRock only accounts for eight percent -- eight
percent of the new homes under 325,000 in Meridian. If we go to the next slide. This
product is proven to be highly successful in Verado, which is at the corner of Ustick and
Locust Grove, connects Ustick to the Packard Subdivision. We had similar product. It
was the number four top selling neighborhood in 2018. As it's been demonstrated by the
developer, I believe with the traffic study, the school survey especially with Solterra, this
housing style has a much lower impact on city services than your traditional
neighborhood. My point here is that Meridian desperately needs more housing options
under 325,000 and this product has proven to be very well received. With the connectivity
of Verado with Packard Estates heard a lot of the same similar comments. That's been
proven to be a very successful interaction between Packard and Verado. Sorry.
De Weerd: If you can just summarize.
Dilmore: Just to summarize, the product is -- there is a high demand for this product for
the -- under 325,000 in Meridian. To transition from the apartments and Fast Eddy's to
Alpine Pointe, it is going to work very similar to what we did with Packard Estates. It
worked great.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Dilmore: One -- if I may, one last point. Mrs. T's testimony, I was the onsite agent. I was
the one that actually was the listing agent when she purchased that home. She actually
just lied in her testimony. She purchased the home as --
De Weerd: It's -- we are good.
Dilmore: All right.
De Weerd: We were doing really good until then. Okay. Those were who signed up.
Johnson: That was everyone that indicated they wished to testify.
De Weerd: Okay. This is a public testimony -- or public hearing. Is there anyone who
wishes to provide testimony? Yes, ma'am. And I will get you after. And then -- thank you
for staying with us. If you will, please, state your name and address for the record.
King: I don't want to blast everybody out. My name is Sandi King. I live at 2453 East
Honeywood Court in Meridian. I live in Alpine Pointe. Have spoke before you a couple
of times and before P&Z a couple of times. So, I kind of want to address the very first
comment. First I want to say thank you all for listening to us and being patient and trying
to understand our position. We definitely digressed with the lie comment and I -- and I
am highly frustrated, because in one of my letters to you I specifically referenced you to
go back to the P&Z meeting to point out lies that were stated and when we can't counter
the lies that are said about us as a subdivision and what we are fighting and why we are
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 54 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 34 of 74
fighting, that's very frustrating, and there have been the same comments tonight by the
Conger group, that make statements that are not true and it's really difficult to be able to
counter those comments. That's all I'm going to say at this point. I'm going to ask all of
you to, please, deny this application as P&Z did. We are not fighting growth in this town.
We all know we are going to grow. People are moving in. We need reasonable housing.
We need reasonable transition. We bought homes on a quarter to a little over half acre
lots. RV garages. It takes room to turn an RV around. You're not going to be on 27 foot
roads with an RV that is 40 feet long. That isn't even rational. We are fighting the zoning,
because you are not transitioning from R-4 when you go to R-15. That isn't transitioning.
We have asked for transitioning. Malissa has drawn up multiple plans, respectfully to this
developer, trying to offer alternative methods. Yes, it would reduce his number of housing,
but if a quality builder, as -- who built our home can build less homes on an acre and
make money so can he. R-40 is not required by Boise. We specifically talked to Boise
at the city hearing when they made the determination to transfer the property to the City
of Meridian, they would not add a restriction, even though we were told that they were
going to restrict it to R-40, that we would be stuck with that. They never had that intent
to add R-40. They would like to see better transitioning, better roads, less traffic. Traffic
is an issue. The traffic study that was done by ACHD was done on two of our current five
ingress-egress roads. That is not an accurate study. I specifically asked them at the
ACHD hearing to redo the study before they made a decision. They opted not to. So,
the numbers you are getting are not accurate. When those roads open up that little eight
home street is going to be inundated from traffic from Brickyard, from the homes, all
across.
De Weerd: If you can just summarize.
King: I will try. We have argued the same points with Conger and his group since the
very beginning and he wants to make absolutely zero transition or changes or
concessions. We are not trying to be unreasonable. We are trying to have a livable
product south of us, so that they can buy homes that they can get into, they can live in a
-- in a reasonable area and we can also live in our homes in a reasonable area.
De Weerd: Thank you.
King: Thank you.
De Weerd: Council, any questions? Okay.
King: Thank you very much.
De Weerd: The woman in the red. Good evening. If you will, please, state your name
and address for the record.
Stowe: My name is Emma Stowe. I live at 4421 North Camas Creek Way in Meridian.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 55 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 35 of 74
Stowe: And I don't know how to operate this. I need slide number six.
De Weerd: Okay. Well, Sonya can bring up slide number six.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Emma, we don't want you to have to strain, so you can just go ahead and just
eat that microphone, so that way you don't have to --
Stowe: Okay. I will try.
Cavener: Perfect.
Stowe: I have a brain injury.
Cavener: I appreciate you being here.
Allen: Emma, are you -- are you referencing my presentation that's up right now? Slide
six?
Stowe: No. It was the --
Allen: Do you have your own presentation?
Stowe: Malissa's.
Allen: Oh. Malissa's. Okay. Hopefully I can find it.
Stowe: Because I want to talk -- I think it was Cavener asked about the no man's land.
It gives a good representation. Right here. I can see it. If you look -- right there where
the red is.
De Weerd: You can use the mouse on the podium.
Stowe: This?
De Weerd: Yes.
Stowe: I can point. Sorry. Okay. Right here. Right here.
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Stowe: Okay. That is where Jasmine Street meets Centrepoint.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 56 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 36 of 74
De Weerd: Right.
Stowe: Okay. Centrepoint right there in the red has not been developed yet. On the
other side where Centrepoint stops down where I showed you -- I also shake. Right there
was where you were talking about. Now my -- I don't know if you remember the man who
talked about the no man's land, there is about eight to ten feet I think he said right there
is where they would close it off, but if that Centrepoint is developed and that no man's
land piece is also developed, that eight or ten feet, that will connect to Centrepoint that
connects to the Brickyard apartment complexes, which curves out Centrepoint going out
onto Eagle Road. Also that piece right there also curves and goes back behind -- I think
it's called Hobby Lobby. Dick's -- is it Dick's --
De Weerd: Sporting Goods. Uh-huh.
Stowe: And Kohl's out onto Ustick. Delano, if he would go ahead and from Jasmine
Lane, which is on his property, if you can see Jasmine Lane, they test them on site, it is
no longer public. If you go to Centrepoint -- Centrepoint through that no man's land and
Delano -- or DevCo would have two exits out his project, meaning there would absolutely
be zero reason whatsoever for him to go -- develop a new road connecting to Dashwood
coming into our neighborhood to kind of be a Y, it would go around Wainwright, connect
onto Camas Creek, onto McMillan. Meaning that when Centrepoint eventually does get
opened, which they have already told you they are going to do, we will have people from
the shopping center, Fast Eddy's, the Brickyard, which is 243 units, as well as DevCo
accessing Alpine Pointe neighborhood. Now, instead of --
De Weerd: If you can summarize.
Stowe: Okay. So, with two other options to enter his project, there is absolutely zero
reason for him to extend out into our neighborhood into Dashwood. I also, in closing,
would like to say that I heard somebody say change is going to happen. Since 2011 on
Eagle Road alone we have got the Brickyard. There is two other complexes that have
been built. There is The Village. There is Hobby Lobby. There is Fast Eddy's.
De Weerd: I'm sorry, I have to cut you off, but we get your point.
Stowe: Okay.
De Weerd: There has been a lot that's happened.
Stowe: Yes. So, we are embracing change and we want to embrace change with you --
all of you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Stowe: We would just like to do without our neighborhood being an extension of Eagle
Road.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 57 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 37 of 74
De Weerd: Thank you.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: I have one question for you. I appreciate your testimony this evening. I appreciate
you coming to let us know your thoughts about this proposed development. You -- are
you concerned that because of Brickyard and the commercial property near this proposed
development, do you feel like they are going to be using or accessing I guess the streets
through this proposed development to get the Alpine Pointe?
Stowe: Absolutely. Absolutely. They were -- and even people picking their children up
from the school will be coming through.
De Weerd: Thank you. There was a hand -- yes. Yeah. If you get to the side then you
can just pull that down. Thank you.
Austin: Madam Mayor, thank you. My name is Jennifer Austin. I live at 4019 North
Brooksburg Place.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Austin: And my husband and I are on the lot that would be -- it's 200 feet of exposure to
this area. I --
De Weerd: So, on the other cul-de-sac. Right there.
Austin: No.
De Weerd: No?
Austin: We are --
De Weerd: Right there.
Austin: Let me -- I will do it now. I think -- there we go.
De Weerd: There you go.
Austin: It's going to keep going. I did send -- my husband and I did send a letter in with
a picture showing what RU will be. Currently we do see all the Brickyard -- all the lights
are shining in our backyard in our home right now, but Mr. -- Delano representative did
come to our home and we do appreciate that they had said they would do single story
initially and didn't tell us what type of density would be proposed for that and since, then,
as the proceedings have gone on, our home for some reason has been eliminated from
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 58 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 38 of 74
all of their photos that they have given you of all of the back -- the neighbors that would
-- the proposed neighbors that would be along their property. Both the last P&Z meeting,
tonight's meeting, and I did address it with Laren at the neighborhood meeting, too, why
our home picture was not shown up on the slides, but for whatever reason they have
chosen not to show that we have no RV pad, we have no -- nothing blocking our view
from all of the roof lines that will be exposed in our -- in our -- in our site -- line of sight
and, additionally, what we will experience living on Brooksburg, we will be dealing with
Centrepoint Way as it connects, so the -- all of the cars will be coming up the back side
of Centrepoint eventually when it's connected and will come up around our home. So,
our concern -- my husband and I's concern is just the higher density of lots and lots of
cars coming up through Dashwood through to Brooksburg. One of the concerns when
you have a cul-de-sac that we live on is they make an incorrect turn come in, not realizing
that they have not hit Dashwood, so, you know, as they come up Wainwright, maybe to
come up Dashwood, if you -- if the -- if it's -- if you go ahead and -- I'm sorry. The
terminology is escaping me. If you approve this, that our concern is that those cars may
miss Dashwood, hit Brooksburg Place first and, then, have to go out, as well as we just
got those cars coming from both directions once those are doing. So, our concern is
those things that you just -- we just ask you to reconsider this proposal and some of the
things that we will be experiencing as we live on that property line. Please consider us.
Thank you.
De Weerd: Appreciate your testimony.
Austin: Any questions?
De Weerd: Any questions? No. Thank you.
Austin: Thank you.
De Weerd: Any others wishing to testify? Okay. If there is no others wishing to testify, I
will ask the applicant to come up -- for their -- not rebuttal, but to address some of the
issues that were brought up and to have closing remarks.
Clark: I like that, Madam Mayor. Hethe Clark. 231 East Front Street in Boise. It sounds
a lot less confrontational if it's not a rebuttal; right?
De Weerd: Exactly.
Clark: So, just a couple of -- of items as we wrap up here. I do want to talk about this
question of process and the issue of compromise. As Council Member Bernt pointed out,
Mrs. Bernard's slides showed various alternatives that have been presented through the
course of this process. There has been three different plats that have been prepared.
Those included a number of different approaches to how this could go forward. This plat
itself was a compromise. No one's perfectly happy with it. That's the nature of this
process. We have made a number of modifications. The latest was in the -- that February
version that is currently before you. That was enough of a change that that required a
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 59 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 39 of 74
new pre-application meeting before we could submit. So, there was a subsequent pre-
application meeting after the one that was done in February of '18 and including ones that
specifically identified this one. With regard to the neighborhood meetings as we show it
on our slide, there was -- in addition to the February 2019 neighborhood meeting, there
was a January 2019 neighborhood meeting. That satisfies the timing requirements for
the city as well. So, with regard to concessions, as I mentioned -- and, Sonya, can you
pull up my presentation for me. As I have mentioned, we came out of the chute with
single level on the north and on the west. That's not something you typically see offered
up, you know, by the developer just without even having a conversation with the
neighbors. It was done to try to -- to address what we expected some of the concerns
might be. As mentioned, we redesigned the plat three different times and as part of that
conversation we lobbied ACHD in order to get that temporary closure at Jasmine, which,
you know, frankly, is -- is a detriment to our marketability. When you get that, Sonya, I
want to pull up the -- one of the maps.
Allen: I am not sure where they put it, Hethe. Bear with me.
Clark: Okay.
De Weerd: Mr. Clerk, can you stop the time while we pull this up.
Clark: It's Delano second. Thank you. So, let me talk about that temporary closure a
little bit more. So -- so why do that temporary closure? And I think this goes to Council
Member Bernt's question for Mrs. Stowe. One of the reasons to do that was because we
did not want Dashwood to turn into a de facto collector. So, you know, we did not want
folks, prior to Centrepoint coming in and being the collector roadway that it is planned to
be and the right of way that is already in existence to connect, this is where folks should
be coming through to -- to -- to get to that mid mile collector at Wainwright. We don't want
-- until that connection occurs we don't want people coming from the south and through
the development and up through Dashwood. So, that's why that temporary closure was
put into place and that's why ACHD approved it. Again, that's part of the conversations
that we had with the neighbors, because we were hearing -- hearing their concerns. I
also want to talk about transition. Again, we are medium density on the west where -- we
are the mixed use regional on the east, but what we have to transition is from three units
to acre -- to 22 to 30 units per acre to match what's on our south. If we do lot -- like size
lots on the north, that's not enough room to actually do an actual transition. We have
given this a heck of a lot of thought, that -- this is what is going to be required to actually
make a meaningful transition from the three units per acre to the 22 to 30 units per acre
that are on our south. And, then, finally -- so, I talked a little bit about that gate. I think
the other question that might come up is the -- the gate on -- you know, the possibility of
a gate on the north at Dashwood. So, as -- as the Council is very aware, there is a
requirement in Meridian's Comprehensive Plan, in Meridian City Code, and in the ACHD
policy manual, that connectivity be preserved. You should only eliminate connectivity
when there is a good reason to do so. In this case the only reason to do that would be to
reduce the traffic to Dashwood and we have shown that Dash -- we have shown -- ACHD's
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 60 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 40 of 74
approval has shown that there is not a capacity issue, it's at half capacity at build out.
This is solely a request that's based on convenience to the neighbors, it's not a safety or
a capacity issue. Again, I can't say this -- stress this enough. All the roads that are under
study in connection with this development will be at half capacity at build out. This was
not a plan that was thrown together, this is a plan that was fully vetted by ACHD, by your
staff, and I just have to stress that these are public roads. There is an investment that
goes with public roads. Public roads should be used to the extent that ACHD has
identified that they should be used. Again, they are -- there at half capacity. So, with that
I will conclude and if there -- if there are further questions I would be happy to answer
them. I just would stress that this is -- this is a great in-fill project that -- that straddles the
various pressures that are put on it given its -- its location and we look forward to,
hopefully, getting an approval from the Council tonight and happy to answer any
questions.
De Weerd: Thank you. And, Council, questions?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Hethe, were you guys provided a copy of this letter?
Clark: Which --
Cavener: The November 5th dated letter that's been referenced throughout tonight.
Clark: I think it was in the record, wasn't it, Sonya? Was it not?
Cavener: Well, we received it tonight. I didn't know if you guys --
Clark: Council Member Cavener, we were just provided it tonight.
Cavener: Do you or Laren have any response? I'm wanting to give you guys the
opportunity, because I think there is a lot of allegations in there and I at least wanted to
give you guys the opportunity, if you wanted to, to correct the record, respond,
recognizing you just received it tonight, we just received it tonight as well, but because it
was referenced by multiple people who provided testimony, if you wanted to, give you the
opportunity.
De Weerd: You know, at this point, Hethe, I would like to call a ten minute recess. I will
give you all a chance to take a look at that, so you can respond. I -- we haven't really had
a chance to totally read it and give full attention to those in front of us as well. So, I will
call a ten minute recess and reconvene at 8:20.
Clark: Thank you, Madam Mayor.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 61 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 41 of 74
Recess: (8:10 p.m. to 8:23 p.m.)
De Weerd: Okay. I will go ahead and call this meeting back to order. Thank you. And
thank you for the -- the opportunity to take a break. So, I will turn this back over to Hethe.
Clark: Madam Mayor, Hethe Clark. 251 East Front Street in Boise. And I will be very
brief. The -- I think that we had largely addressed this in my -- in my not rebuttal
comments. The -- the three items as I read in this letter are the pre-ap meeting and we
went and checked the records and we met with staff for an additional pre-ap meeting on
January 17th of 2019. That's well within the time frame. With regard to the neighborhood
meeting, as I mentioned previously, and as this letter acknowledges, there was a
neighborhood meeting in January in addition to the one in February. So, the timing
requirements are satisfied there. With regard to the signage in the -- with regard to the
-- on the August 20th meeting I agree with Mr. Nary's comments there that the -- the
meetings were ultimately renoticed. That happened as a result of just a misunderstanding
with staff, because we knew that that date was going to be deferred and so all subsequent
hearings were properly noticed. So, with that I don't believe that there is anything else to
address in that letter. I would just reiterate that this is medium density, it is approved by
ACHD, it's within capacity and we would hope for your approval.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, questions?
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Mr. Clark, thank you.
Clark: Uh-huh.
Bernt: One of my concerns is -- one of the reasons why I wanted to go back and look at
your -- your different proposals -- oh, sorry. Your different proposals was just to see the
difference and where it went. I noticed that -- and correct me if I'm wrong -- I am most of
the time. It seemed like your proposals got denser.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Clark: Madam Mayor, Council Member Brent -- Bernt. Excuse me. So, the -- the
differences here are -- as you can see that there is the January 19, the April 2018 -- the
-- the significant differences with regard to -- on the east with the -- the change to multi-
family and -- and removal of that from this process and taking it to a conditional use permit,
there is no -- we are not aware of any increase in density from there. The major changes
there were to address the roadway layout.
Bernt: Mr. Clark, I could be wrong, I'm not -- I'm not inferring here. I was just clarifying
that. I want to make --
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 62 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 42 of 74
Clark: And Council Member Bernt -- and we just don't -- I don't have specific lot counts
to tell you exactly that section that's within the medium density area as compared as -- as
it's progressed. I will say that a number of those changes were done to address issues
that the neighbors had raised, like cut through. So, for example, you can see that in the
April 2018 and, then, the January 2019 slides you can see that there was the possibility
of being able to very easily cut over and, then, up to Dashwood and so that was the
reasoning that we went through to change this, so that we would discourage that type of
a movement, because folks would have to go all the way west and, then, up and around.
This was not a means of adding density by any means.
Bernt: Mr. Clark -- Madam Mayor. One last comment. I'm just counting the lots on the
north and in February of 2019 you have five on the northeast corner. January of 2019 of
four and on the northwest portion west of that stub street at North Dashwood Place you
have eight lots, as opposed to ten in -- in February of 2019 and same along the -- along
the west. I didn't count those, but it seems like they are a little more dense.
Clark: Madam Mayor, Council Member Bernt, two things. You know, for one I would point
you to the April 2018 that does match --
Bernt: Right.
Clark: -- the February 2019. Part of that conversation was with regard to going to single
story and, then, going to single story we needed to combine the structures, which means
they needed to be skinnied up in order to make that work, as compared to what was
shown on the January 2019 document.
De Weerd: Any other questions? Okay.
Clark: Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Mr. Nary, I saw that we did receive a packet of information. This
included the survey that was included in the testimony, but there was some additional
pages that were not referenced.
Nary: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, yeah, there is
a document that was handed to me and I think the rest of the Council and the Mayor
during the break and a part of it is the portion of the slide presentation that was made
regarding the survey, but the back three, four pages is multiple listing service information
that wasn't part of the testimony and although the -- the public hearing is still open, if this
portion of the -- that -- this is unrebutable testimony, so no one can actually testify to it
and it doesn't appear to be answering a question that's been raised by the Mayor or the
Council, so it is a -- it is an example that we use for that purpose. So, I would suggest we
strike those last four pages from the record, because they are not related to anything
that's been testified to at this point. It wasn't referenced specifically by anybody prior to
the rebuttal portion. So, I would suggest removing those four.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 63 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 43 of 74
De Weerd: Thank you.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I know Hethe sat down, but I wanted him to earn some steps tonight. So, I got
one more question for you. Hethe, you and your team are very creative. I'm curious if
your creative group discussed making the Dashwood Place emergency access only and
just developing Centrepoint Way all the way out and what's prevented that from being a
option that was presented to the neighbors?
Clark: Madam Mayor, Council Member Cavener, so the -- it goes back to my comments
about connectivity. All of the -- the policies at the city and ACHD would suggest that there
should be a local street connection there, unless there is a reason not to have a local
street connection there. And, again, I would just reiterate that Dashwood is at half
capacity at full build out. So, from that perspective it doesn't make sense under ACHD
policy or under the city ordinance -- ordinances to restrict it to emergency only.
Cavener: Madam Mayor, follow up for staff. Sonya, is that something staff would oppose,
making Dashwood emergency access only and just building Centrepoint Way out? I'm
not saying that that's proposed, I'm just wanting to get some feedback from staff on it.
Clark: And, Madam Mayor, maybe I can jump in real quick. So, Council Member Cavener,
are you suggesting that Centrepoint would have to be -- because I -- now I think I
understand the totality of the question. Are you suggesting that Centrepoint Way would
have to be built out now and that Dashwood would be emergency access now?
Cavener: Madam Mayor --
Clark: Because we don't control that property for Centrepoint.
Cavener: Madam Mayor, I think more what I'm suggesting is that perhaps when
Centrepoint Way is built out, then, maybe Dashwood becomes emergency access at that
point. And part of this -- because that's -- I will be real honest with those in attendance,
I'm shocked we haven't heard hardly any testimony about the large scale multi-family
piece. The vast majority of the testimony we have received, those are about substance,
how they were engaged, but the biggest chunk has been about really cars going through
Dashwood. So, I'm trying to wrap my head around the totality of that and if -- are there
other options that we can explore to maybe solve that. So, that's where the question
comes from.
Allen: Madam Mayor, Councilman Cavener, Councilmen, to respond to your question,
our city code does require the streets be extended and -- for interconnectivity purposes.
You could certainly require that they not -- that it not be, but ACHD also has a say in it.
Our city engineer has also stated to me that he would prefer that it be connected as well.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 64 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 44 of 74
Cavener: Okay.
Stewart: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Stewart: The reason for that is I need to put utilities in that roadway and from an operation
and maintenance standpoint I would much prefer that they were in a right of way that we
can move vehicles in and out of, as opposed to something like an easement or whatever.
So, we always try and put those utility services in a public right of way whenever possible.
De Weerd: Well, certainly I try and put myself also in the -- the role of the citizen. I have
been on the other side of this podium -- it was a long time ago, but if I would have bought
a large lot on a -- what looked like a cul-de-sac with a bulb out that doesn't say this road
will extend, I wouldn't have thought it would have extended. That -- that looks to me like
it's -- it's a cul-de-sac and so that -- that's my first concern. My second concern is you
have eight homes on that -- on that road and now you are going to add a whole subdivision
going through one -- one stretch of street. That is concerning and I understand closing
Jasmine really drives it through it, but even when it opens up they -- they are going to the
lease route of resistance and that is going to continue to have that same route out to get
to the traffic light, rather than going down to Jasmine and, then, taking Centrepoint out.
So, that is a concern, because we have been very cognizant and focused on transition
from lower density to a higher density and I appreciate that the developers have tried to
make it look with the single building, with a single roof top, but it still is a much higher
density that is not a transition between uses. I -- I think the -- the southern part of it I can
understand, but connecting into that single road with an entire subdivision, that -- that is
concerning to me as well and I understand the concern of the neighbors. And, frankly,
the -- the apartments, they are blending with what is -- is currently underway. I -- and I
think there is probably a reason we didn't hear a whole lot about that is -- is the larger
concern is what's -- what's going out to Wainwright and how they are getting there and,
frankly, I was shocked at the Brickyard Apartments. Oh, my God. Do I have an amen?
Thank you for taking that picture down. So, if there is no further discussion, comments,
questions for any of those that provided testimony, the applicant or staff, I -- and you are
through with discussion, I would entertain a motion to close the public hearing if you so
choose.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: Maybe -- maybe the hesitancy to not close the public hearing is maybe -- maybe
that we have some more questions and maybe some more deliberation to take place in
case we decided to do other options, but I will be frank with my concern before we close
the public hearing. My -- my number one concern is density and, frankly, I have seen this
-- this product in other locations in our city and I -- and I'm not opposed to the product, I
think there is a reason why not only the City of Meridian, but other cities across the
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 65 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 45 of 74
Treasure Valley, diversity of housing is important. I believe that there -- there needs to be
more -- I shouldn't say -- there needs to be less expensive housing and I believe that this
is an option that Mr. Conger and his group have done a good job in other locations. I
wouldn't necessarily call them affordable housing and I have had this discussion with --
with some -- some of Mr. Conger's associates as well, but I do believe that they are less
expensive and that's where we can agree. I do understand if I were a resident along that
corridor I would be concerned. I would like to see maybe a redesign to make it -- the
transition less dense. I like -- I echo the Mayor's sentiments in regard to the southern
portion. I don't have any issues with the southern portion and the density there, but I wish
I could see more of a transition on the northern portion from the existing subdivision to
this -- this new proposed development. Is it a deal breaker? I'm not sure yet. But that's
just where I stand in regard to the density. I wish it just was a little bit less. As far as the
product is -- I want to be clear, though, I like the product. I think the product is done well
and I think there is a need for it, there is no doubt about that.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Mr. Bernt, would you entertainment a question?
Bernt: Yes.
Cavener: Just curious from your perspective how many less lots? When you say less
are you talking ten percent less? Are you talking 30 percent less? Are you talking five
lots, 50 lots, I mean what's --
Bernt: I'm not sure. I think it's part of -- Madam Mayor, if I can respond to Council Member
Cavener?
De Weerd: Yes, please.
Bernt: Thank you. Appreciate that. I don't know if I have an exact number in mind.
Maybe I will leave that up to the developer, but I -- in January of 2019 there were -- there
were less lots there and maybe change those to single -- single family dwellings maybe.
I know that Mr. Conger did an interesting project on the corner of Eagle Road and -- and
Lake Hazel where a project in that location -- there were some concerned residents where
there were larger lot sizes, much larger than these lot sizes, and he was able to
accommodate to a certain degree that transition. I think that Mr. Conger did a great job
in that transition. Maybe something more along those lines. To give you a number -- I'm
not sure. A little -- just less. Again, I don't know if that's a deal breaker, just a concern
that I have.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 66 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 46 of 74
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: When it comes to -- for Council's benefit and those that are here, when you
look at the -- the development, the density, personally I'm -- I'm supportive of the
application. I think when you -- when neighbors engage with developers there is a desire
of kind of this push and pull, give and take, and I guess for me I don't ever think it's that
case. It's a collaborative process where -- it should be collaborative and, quite frankly,
the frustrations of the neighbors are warranted. I think you guys could have done a better
job communicating, coordinating with them, responding to some of their concerns. At the
same time, for those that are in attendance, we see this all the time. A developer will
bring a sub -- inferior project. Neighbors get upset. We say go back, meet with the
neighbors and, then, they come back with something they intended to do in the beginning.
I think to the applicant's credit they brought something that is thoughtful in a very
challenging piece of in-fill that meets the needs and Council Member Bernt hit the nail on
the head. We are long gone from the days of affordable housing in Meridian. This is less
expensive. I -- I think I beat up the applicant with a similar application a year ago, because
I don't like how they look. It's just not for me. But I have tried to evolve and say just
because it's not a place that the Cavener family would live, clearly there is a demand for
this type of product. Just like I wouldn't necessarily live in the neighborhood north of that
either. But there is a clearly demand. So, to me the -- my two hang ups -- and one is silly
and I comment on this in a previous application from the applicant -- I hate that we limit
parking on only one side of the road. I like to see -- so that was where my question was,
Mr. Bernt, about reducing lots. If we reduce enough lots to accommodate parking on both
sides, that may address some of the concerns of the neighbors. And, then, my second
piece -- and I don't know how we resolve it -- is to prevent a lot of cut through traffic
coming through here. I think the three plats that we saw, this one does the best job of
addressing that. Addressing the cut through traffic as best as it could be, but until that
Centrepoint Way is open I just think it's going to be a frustration for the neighbors that
have lived there and have experienced traffic to be a certain way that it's been their whole
life. So, I -- overall I'm supportive. There is some tinkering I -- would like to do if Council
is supportive. But overall I would be supportive of this application.
De Weerd: So, part of this application is a Comprehensive Plan amendment. It wasn't
-- it was less than a year ago this Council said we would not look at Comprehensive Plan
amendments while we were in the process of amending a Comprehensive Plan and next
week we are going to be looking at our Comprehensive Plan. So, I just wanted to bring
that up as well and in terms of -- and I know this has been an application that's been in
the process for some time. But, again, next week you do hear the Comprehensive Plan
and see a vision that has all parts working together. So, just -- just another point of
consideration.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 67 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 47 of 74
Cavener: Thank you. In the midst of my chicken scratch I had that question about that
and if -- again, I don't know where the body wants to go. From a process standpoint I
would feel more comfortable at a minimum continuing this at least until we potentially
reviewed and approved our new Comprehensive Plan. So, just something else to chew
on.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: For -- you had a question or not?
De Weerd: Do you have a question for Mr. Nary?
Borton: That was --
De Weerd: Oh.
Borton: -- the question was coming. So, appreciate the -- the applicant's proposal and
the public input. Here is -- here is sort of how I summarize my notes walking through this.
The three applications, the Comprehensive Plat map -- map amendment is for a portion
of property which wasn't previously in our comp plan and it's -- the mixed use regional
makes great sense I think. So, it's -- it would be an -- and I don't have any hesitation in
-- in acting on that. It's not amending something that was previously planned as part of
Meridian's area to be something else. It, quite frankly, would be a swap from Boise to
Meridian and it seems consistent -- is consistent with the mixed use regional to the south
and I didn't hear, really, any dialogue of concern or read anything in any of the
correspondence from the public that had concern on what mixed use regional might mean
for that eastern portion -- eastern four acres. So, that portion of the application to me
seems appropriate. Looking through all of the metrics that our staff has provided in review
of the application and the public has commented on, the Police and Fire didn't raise any
specific concerns from response time, I thought that was a positive. The ability to serve
the area was -- was appropriate. The schools -- I think it was Heritage and Rocky
Mountain, both of which are currently overcrowded. To some degree this school crowding
does get addressed -- should get addressed as boundaries change from a long term
perspective. So, from the long term perspective the school boundary -- or the school
crowding isn't as great a concern as it is in the short term. I do have -- have concern over
the process that got us here. I think some of the disconnect between the public and the
applicant -- not pointing fingers necessarily, but that's unfortunate that there appears to
be some continually unresolved issues. Not -- not what we want to see. But one of the
comments that was -- was a highlight for me and it was referenced about Dashwood Lane
and connectivity and the principle of connectivity is truly one that we support, but
connectivity is premised upon connectivity and it's premised upon a desire to promote
connectivity, because that's important, and that generally means multiple points and
multiple ways in and out of developments to truly support connectivity and -- and I think
this is a great project, but I don't think it's the right spot at this point, because the concerns
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 68 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 48 of 74
that I have got that just -- and it's not the developer's fault, because they have no control
over this -- is Centrepoint Way and that parcel directly to the north, it could be 50 years.
Again, this isn't the developer's fault, they don't control it, and Centrepoint Way is such
an integral part of the long term success of this area as I see it, that it's -- that's the
challenge I can't get over and I think this -- without Centrepoint Way it's -- it's certainly in
my mind too dense. It will, for the foreseeable future, funnel one hundred percent of the
traffic north through Dashwood, which nobody intended. The developer doesn't control
how long that might occur. If Jasmine's blocked it could be decades. We don't -- and
that's not what anyone intends, but, quite frankly, it could happen. This is the one chance
we have got to get it right. So, I think the public has done a good job and the written
testimony and today -- and really highlighting that concern and we are mindful of the long
term consequence of that. So, I like the mixed use regional on the four acres to the east.
As presented I'm not comfortable moving forward with the zoning -- annexation and
zoning of the plat. I think, quite frankly, both of those will change if Centrepoint were
connected. I'm not sold on the R-40 apartments quite frankly, but as -- with what the
applicant has to control today it's only the comp plan map amendment, the mixed use
regional, that I would be supportive of and I just don't think it's time yet to do the other
two. It's just not there. It would invite a long term -- perhaps generational problem for
everybody to the north that we have an opportunity to avoid. That's kind of how I balanced
the staff's input, the data that we have got, and the public input and the applicant's effort
at trying to make this thing fit. I just don't think it does yet.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor, I'm really struggling with this one, because we talk so much
about in-fill and how we need price points that are -- give our community a variety, but yet
I'm really struggling with that much traffic going down Dashwood and -- and the transition
between existing homes and the potential new homes and I think Councilman Borton hit
it really well, that Centrepoint Way is key to having this flow so much better and not putting
all of that traffic out on Dashwood. It just -- it just seems like it's -- like it's just not ready
yet or maybe like Councilman Borton said, it's not the right location.
De Weerd: Is Councilman Palmer still on the line?
Palmer: I'm still here.
De Weerd: I just thought I would check. Do you have any comments?
Palmer: No, ma'am.
De Weerd: Okay.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 69 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 49 of 74
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Maybe a conversation starter for Council. Hearing the feedback from those
that are here tonight, P&Z denied -- recommended denial on this in part because of the
issue with Boise and, then, the charge was to engage the neighbors. The issue has been
resolved. Rather than approve or deny the other, is this body open to sending this back
to P&Z and allowing them to take another look at this in light of the change with the city
of Boise?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: The city of Boise change just allowed it to proceed. Kind of a technical
prerequisite to get us to be able to consider it, but I don't know if that moves the ball
anywhere.
Cavener: Madam Mayor? And I don't know for this -- for you all if it -- if it does, I just --
to me if -- if one of the two reasons that they -- around their denial -- I guess the one
reason around their denial has been resolved, it gives -- it gives the applicant at least
another opportunity to hear feedback from the Council, sharpen their pencil, hear the
feedback from Council Member Bernt about maybe less lots -- again, I don't know if it --
if it addresses the other concerns from the rest of you. You know, to me Dashwood Place
is designed to handle the amount of traffic that this application would develop. It is -- I
can appreciate from the neighbors not -- not preferred, which is why I'm trying -- I was
working to try and find maybe a creative solution to address your needs. Just -- this body
hears me talk a lot about local government, how much I love the -- the wrestling that we
have as a body and -- and if this particular one the body feels not best to move forward,
okay, I'm good with that. But I just think that to Council Member Little Roberts' point, in-
fill is never easy. If this was in a block south of town, no brainer; right? But anytime we
deal with in-fill next to a state highway, it's going to bring us challenges. I think the density
does make sense next to a state highway. I think the connectivity plan does make sense.
I support it without closing Dashwood, but would be open to that if that was something
that this body supported. Which is why I -- I suggested, again, maybe shipping it back to
P&Z, having them take another look at it.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: It's kind of clear where I'm coming from. I just -- I mean call a spade a spade.
Everyone's had a year to talk about it and discuss and the applicant's made a choice and
-- and decided not to -- to reduce density and make some of the adjustments. So, it's
good, I just don't know if that's going to change anything going through it again. If you
think it might, argue why, because I don't see it. Madam Mayor?
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 70 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 50 of 74
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Amongst the Council does anyone have any concerns on the comp plan
amendment? The mixed use regional designation for the four acres to the east?
De Weerd: Sonya, with -- what is -- what is that -- we probably haven't -- haven't
designated it in the Comprehensive Plan that will be next week, because this is a new
piece. So, I guess with that said -- no. It's in that area with the --
Borton: Okay.
De Weerd: -- the mixed use.
Allen: Madam Mayor, if I may add to that. That is absolutely correct what Madam --
Mayor Tammy said. Additionally if you do not approve the annexation and you do approve
the comp plan amendment, you cannot tie them to that development plan without an
annexation and a development agreement. So, just keep that in mind. Thank you.
Borton: Which is how it would normally be. Correct. It would be a blank slate mixed use
regional. It doesn't necessarily mean it's R-40 apartments or -- it could be anything at a
future date.
De Weerd: So, basically, you can approve the Comprehensive Plan amendment, but
without the annexation and the plat that would just be the comp plan amendment with the
designation.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: I guess my question would be to the applicant. Are you -- would the applicant be
open to doing a redesign to make it less dense before we close the public hearing and
not giving you that option?
De Weerd: Or even rearrange the density.
Bernt: Madam Mayor, just to follow up. I just don't want to deny -- you know, I don't want
to put you in a position where the project is over without giving you an opportunity to do
-- maybe make some changes to it.
Conger: Right. Yeah. Madam Mayor, Council Member Bernt, Jim Conger, 4824 West
Fairview Avenue. You know, we have gone through a long process and I think in credit
to Council Member Cavener, we didn't come in with the -- the bait and switch, the ugly
project. We -- we -- you know, we see that done a lot. We attempted not to do that. We
in good faith met with every neighbor, even though we heard -- maybe we didn't -- on our
boundary to say a single level and --
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 71 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 51 of 74
De Weerd: Hey.
Conger: -- there is only six of them. I mean we didn't meet with 40 of them. There is six
adjacent and -- and the point of that being is single level. So, if we want us to go back
and look at densities and -- and make it less dense, we would need to be similar homes,
which would mean two story. So, if -- if the direction is to go back and look at our north
boundary, if that's what I'm getting, we will go back and look at that north boundary. We
-- we, obviously, would not start a transition in the middle of our property. I mean as
Madam Mayor is tired of looking at the Barrack departments, we are tired of looking at --
Brickyard. I call them Barrack. It's one and the same to me, but we -- we still have that
arduous chore of getting from those really God awful 15 foot away from the property line,
that doesn't happen halfway through our property. Our property is only 500 feet wide or
something of that nature. So, if -- what we got clear direction was to go look at our north
boundary lots and look at can those be wider and lose -- lose lots similar to what was --
you saw in our middle iteration on that, those were not single levels. We would definitely
go to wider -- we have come in front of you with Verado and -- and with adjacent neighbors
and committed up front with those neighbors to be single level and it worked very well.
We thought we were halfway happy with single levels next to these neighbors. I'm clearly
wrong. You have heard I'm wrong. So, if the direction is to go back and look at that
interface, we would be more than happy to do that. The staff report you have in front of
you says that interface met policy. But we don't want a denial. If you are telling us to go
back and look at that north boundary, we would look at that north boundary, remove a
handful of lots. They would be traditional lots, similar to what's across the street -- across
the fence from us and we would come back in front of you with that. If that's what I'm
hearing, we would entertain that. I don't know what other transition would really matter
after our first row of homes. Certainly.
Bernt: Madam Mayor? Mr. Conger, are you saying -- just to -- just to confirm -- and I
appreciate your -- your transparency and your willingness to discuss this with us this
evening. Are you saying that you would swap out single story, multi -- or the single story
duplex and the detached and -- detached homes, the more dense homes, with maybe
larger lots, but they would be two story?
Conger: Madam Mayor, Council Member Bernt, I am saying that, yeah, if we went to --
to what I'm hearing as an interface with an existing house, those -- those homes are single
and two -- two level homes. I'm not guaranteeing that they will be two levels, I'm not trying
to be obstinate in that manner. I'm saying they -- what I'm hearing is we want a transition
to the existing homes, then -- then I would have to do a lot -- you know, a couple of those
are pie shaped that we wouldn't match up one to one, of course. That's -- that's not
possible and typically not a requirement in those -- those odder pie shaped type lots. But,
yes, I'm hearing this -- the -- I'm hearing the interface is the issue and my single level
restriction -- that doesn't occur very often -- I come to a lot of public hearings and haven't
seen other developers do that. I'm seeing that that is not entertainable or -- or -- or a
concession that I thought it was. We would modify the lot width similar to that 2018 plan
that you alluded to and it would be a typical home similar to what's across the fence. I
think that's what I'm hearing.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 72 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 52 of 74
Bernt: Okay.
Conger: That's what I'm agreeing to.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: If that's where we are headed, I think the single level was a great idea, but I don't
want to discount it. It's a big deal. I understand on your end it's a big deal to make that
commitment.
Conger: I thought it was amazing.
Borton: And -- and the reason I was hesitant to continue is -- just to be blunt, again, you
do great work and I think this can be a great project, I -- the challenges that I find -- it
would be a massive redesign to -- to solve the concern that I have got with funneling traffic
in and out of one -- Dashwood. That's a concern. So, I didn't want to -- from my
perspective lead you astray, at least from -- from what I see to be that problem, without
that Centrepoint Way. Redesign and -- through a remand still might have that problem.
And I could be wrong. It depends on what you come up with. But that's -- it's just a tough
one.
Conger: Yeah. No, Madam Mayor --
Borton: You can't control it and I get it. It's --
Conger: Right. Council Member Borton -- right. No, I get definitely what you're saying.
I think that the challenge -- and ACHD felt the same challenge is, you know, when this is
at full build out with the Centrepoint Way, you are still going to have, yes, some traffic
once that's open heading to Centrepoint Way. That is a mid-mile collector that Dashwood
comes out on with a traffic signal on Eagle Road. So, a majority of traffic going to Eagle
Road -- specifically going north is going out that way anyhow. I believe you will have
minor cut through traffic through our neighborhood once Centrepoint is open. That would
be the -- the neighbors that you see tonight going to Hobby Lobby and Dick's, which we
think is healthy. I call that cut through, but that's not negative cut through --
Borton: No, I get it.
Conger: That's commercial cut through. So, once this is opened up and why ACHD did
this -- the traffic analysis when this is fully opened isn't going to be despairingly different
than what's occurring right now through Dashwood. Dashwood is a -- is a stub road that
it at the end of the day is going to function at about half capacity when Centrepoint is open
as well with the amount of cars that will be cut through going to the Hobby Lobby and
Dick's that are local, not -- not the cut through -- the good cut through. So, our point was
-- and I believe ACHD's point was -- is that neighborhood of Dashwood won't function -- I
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 73 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 53 of 74
mean it will be half capacity if it's never opened and when that opens it's not going to be
much different than half capacity anyhow. It's not going to desperately go down once that
opens. So, I don't quite follow the concern of Centrepoint not open, because when it's
open it will be very close to the same as when it's not open, ironically, because of the
future cut through to Hobby Lobby and Dick's.
De Weerd: I think the point is, Mr. Conger, is -- and maybe sometimes this leads to the
disconnect between the city and ACHD and maybe not to all Council, but we are talking
neighborhoods and the preservation of the character of neighborhoods and -- and this
does impact the character of the neighborhood to the north with the densities going down
a single block with very few homes on it that now inherit a high -- a high density going
from -- in -- in their -- on their street you probably have two per -- per acre to an R-15 and
that does impact the character of a neighborhood. So, there -- therein lies the concern.
ACHD is looking at traffic. We are looking at character and we are looking at a community.
Sometimes those have different goals, different angles and -- and that's -- I think that's
what we are trying to -- to balance is how to not totally impact another neighborhood's
character with a real different feel and something that is more geared towards what's
south of it than what is north of it.
Conger: Yeah. Madam Mayor, I couldn't agree more. When we go into an existing
neighborhood -- and that is what happens every time when development occurs. We do
not take lightly what fabric changes in that neighborhood. It is impossible I think to -- no
matter what density is going to be here to not -- I mean Dashwood is the stub road and
-- and un -- fortunately and unfortunately -- fortunately they have been on a cul-de-sac
road and I understand that it just -- ultimately that road is going to be open and connect
to Centrepoint that -- that's just on every map that's out there. So, we definitely agree
and that is not easy for us either. I think, you know, the function of density will -- again,
you are correct, it's three homes per acre on Dashwood. Our single level twin homes are
around 4.8 homes per acre and, then, we transcend -- transition to our two story that --
that gets in the six to seven units per acre, to even 7.2, depending on the layout and
configuration, so -- and, then, ultimately we get to the -- we keep saying 22 to 30, but it's
22 to 30 units per acre. So, you know, we -- I mean the transition was the number one -
- when we started our entire process of layout and planning -- I mean transition -- traffic,
yes, but transition was the number one, traffic is the number two. You know, we actually
-- your -- your staff -- and rightfully so -- your staff wasn't supportive of blocking off Jasmine
Lane. ACHD was requiring that. I believe you will even find out the record that your staff
responded to ACHD saying our policies are to keep all roads open. We don't support
closing of Jasmine. We heard the neighborhood in one of our -- two of our meetings of
worried about the -- the detrimental cut through traffic, not the productive cut through
traffic. That is why we pushed with ACHD to get that done. I mean I think from a city
standpoint -- I'm hearing what you are saying, but -- but our entire year and a half of
planning has been -- been -- been kind of not hearing that from city staff, that we are to
open roads and get them open. So, we are open to another configuration. I think what
we have is -- is two sellers. We have, you know, one on the ten acres and one on the
four acres. You know, they have been county residents. They have got these apartments
looming over them on this side. They have had the three story, which they have been a
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 74 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 54 of 74
good neighbor to this entire time. You know, our one seller, Mr. Cook, is sitting right behind
me, they have retirement, they need to sell their property, so to simply say, hey, we need
Centrepoint Way to function before they develop is -- is -- is possibly good for -- for those
eight homes that are on Dashwood, certainly not good for the two individuals that -- that
have, you know, property that they have relied on the city with -- specifically the ten acres
with the medium density. Nobody's coming in here and trying to modify any codes, any
comp plans, we simply definitely are respective of -- that we are changing Dashwood, it's
going to go -- to have capacity and right now you and I both know it's -- it's not half
capacity, because it's got the type three barricade at the end and it's not finished, but it --
but it's got no traffic on it. So, we are definitely sympathetic to that. But to the detriment
of -- of not doing these two in-fills right next to Dick's, right next to Hobby Lobby, right next
to The Village, right next to Kleiner Park -- I mean I can just go on and on. I mean there
is lots of places that I could probably take that this isn't the time for this -- this area is not
getting any better. Their -- their Wainwright, you know, isn't -- I mean part of the -- and
we have heard it in our numerous meetings with -- with the neighbors -- is it's getting the
cut through traffic from McMillan coming to the light at Wainwright and ultimately there is
just a lot of pressure, because, you know, we all feel -- and it's not a feel -- I mean it is a
real feel that there is more traffic on these roads, because it -- it is more traffic than what
everybody was used to, but -- but that -- that's just not -- not going away. Eagle Road will
continue to get busier and it's, you know, getting Jasmine Street -- right now it is a private
lane, it's not a street, it needs to be called Jasmine Lane, that -- that -- that has, you know,
two, three and four people entering Eagle Road in a very unsafe environment since Fast
Eddy's has been put on. The quicker we get some of those illicit driveways coming to
Eagle Road the better, too. So, there are a lot of good things occurring with this in-fill.
Yes, there are some -- some will even use the word carnage in -- but that -- that's what
happens, we -- we win and we lose and I guess if I had known it was going to be a
negotiation, I would have came in with different product and not tried to -- to come in --
but that's just not how we operate. We come in and we go talk about doing single level
against these neighbors, because that's what I would want if I was living behind them, but
-- but if -- again, I just see if there is an issue with the north boundary, I -- you make it in
your condition on -- on get -- get rid of one lot on one side and one and a half lots or two
lots on the other side and -- and -- and I don't think that's a solution. I think the single
level is the right solution in the long run. So, I think there is just some feeling that
transitions, you know, can -- can help get this denied and I think denial would -- would
make folks happy, but there is just another project coming in behind me that may not be
so insightful and is going to have the same issues and you have one of the last in-fills in
the square mile, I don't know how you could continue to keep denying it. I mean you can,
I'm not saying that's not in your purview, but at some point there is just one more person
behind me and it may not be the same. In fact, it won't be.
De Weerd: Well, we had another project off of Ustick that had multi-family and buffered
it and in trying to transition with the R-4 before they -- they got to the -- the multi-family or
the higher density product. It's not something new to this Council. They -- they have
been asking for those greater transitions and -- and this is even less dense than the
project that was abutting the development application on -- on Ustick, so it -- this -- this
isn't a new conversation for this Council.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 75 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 55 of 74
Conger: No, Madam Mayor, you're absolutely correct and your staff is very -- very well
trained at -- I mean in our pre-application meetings the very first item is -- and it's not even
fire, it's not even safety, it's about transition. That isn't new to us either. So, that is what
we come into these developments with. I mean we know we are not going to -- to -- to
buck the system. This appears to be bucking the system. We are a little confused --
normally I may not have -- I may have a condition and I have had a condition before to
transition better and we come here and debate it with you. In this particular case we --
we attempted to resolve that before we got in front of you and we actually have a staff
report that it actually gives a little -- commends me a little bit about our transition and so
this is -- I mean I'm trying to answer it as best as I can, but a little bit of a shock to us, to
be honest, although it's always the number one item. So, that part's not a shock.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: Mr. Conger, your application was denied at P&Z. Like I don't know why you're
surprised. I mean one -- and I don't want to get -- I don't want to be hostile and I don't
want to -- but one of the reasons why the Commission denied your application was
because of density. I mean I'm just -- I'm just -- I'm -- I'm just looking at it right here. I'm
not trying to -- and so I don't -- I guess I'm struggling to find out why you are surprised.
You're a smart guy. You have been around the block many times. This certainly isn't your
first development and certainly won't be your last. So, I feel like you are sort of challenging
us to a certain degree right now and I don't understand why.
Conger: Madam Mayor and Council Member Bernt, I'm certainly not challenging you. I'm
on the wrong side of the microphone to be doing that for certain. I believe we have given
a concession that doesn't happen more than about three times a year in this Council,
which is single level. If that's not important, then, I have misread -- misread things and
-- and that's the only part that I am -- and -- well, I guess I'm surprised not from P&Z, I
was talking about the staff report, definitely not P&Z. Now I think there are two -- I think
that was discussion points they had for sure. Their -- their motion was actually to get
Boise approval and go meet with the neighbors and additional time as well. Both of those
made it in their motion. Density I don't believe really made it in their motion, but it was
points of discussion without a doubt, but I'm not going to try to sit there and -- because
my memory is not that good, but -- but I am definitely open. We have done it before. We
-- we do an R-8 there instead of R-15 and those lots get wider and -- and that would be
the transition on that and I -- I'm certainly not challenging with that, I am definitely saying
that is an option if -- if it was the transition. I think -- I think the traffic is a different
discussion. I think Madam Mayor definitely is -- is -- is -- and all of us sensitive to what
that does to Dashwood. I think at full build out with Centrepoint and full build out without
Centrepoint ultimately that's the same outcome, more -- more per response to Mr. Borton
and on that, but -- you know. So, if -- if we are trying to regulate traffic, you know, I think
it's -- at build out or full opening it's -- it's going to have the same outcome and I believe
ACHD did the same thing. Again, if it's transition on the north boundary, I have already
indicated that we would be open to modifying one on the right side and there is probably
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 76 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 56 of 74
two on the left side that would balance that back out if it truly -- truly were that and that
would be a very easy condition.
De Weerd: Any other questions for Mr. Conger? Anything further you want to add? Okay.
Conger: No, ma'am. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: You bring up the traffic count. So, I was going through the staff -- ACHD staff
report and it referenced the situation where -- it called Dashwood a de facto collector
under these circumstances until Centrepoint is built and connected through. You see the
recommendation for Jasmine to be closed and it speaks to those situate -- when that
occurs the local street maximum capacity looks like it's 1,000, not 2,000, and in that
situation at full build out this would be 920 daily trips. So, darn near at the thousand cap
threshold, but I can't find any reference that talks about what you have said where in
Centrepoint is fully constructed that, in essence, the cut through traffic that would go
through Dashwood would -- that increase in cut through traffic would offset the decrease
in the interior traffic going north. I don't know where that is. Is that in the ACHD staff
report or is it in your own data?
Conger: No. Madam Mayor, Council Member Borton, that -- you know. And we have
had this with other projects -- calculating the actual cut through traffic. Most traffic
engineers kind of avoid that like the plague, because it's impossible to calculate. So, that
was discussions with our design team, engineer team -- mainly traffic engineer team and
ACHD during their process of writing the staff report. That is not a calculation and that's
why I said more possibilities -- or I didn't say exact numbers, because there is no exact
number to that and I think coming back to the thousand trips, the -- what -- what would a
local street, Dashwood, is designed for is 2,000 trips per day. ACHD's policy says if it's
not at full connection, then, we want them at a thousand trips per day and that is because
of our condition by ACHD that we lobbied for to block off Jasmine Street, then, ACHD
would have to treat that as a not finished roadway, which would put a cap of a thousand
trips per day. So, what ACHD -- when it's not a finished system, they want to leave extra
capacity for these roadways, so -- so, that would be what they are referencing, too, is a
thousand trip allowance on Dashwood isn't what it's designed for, it's because the -- we
are blocked off from Centrepoint, so they have to use their policy that says it can't exceed
a thousand trips per day, which we were under that as well. But it is ultimately -- I mean
it's designed for 2,000, but that's the thousand which we are under anyhow.
Borton: That makes sense. Thanks.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 77 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 57 of 74
Conger: Thank you again for the question.
De Weerd: Oh, I did see a hand up from the HOA president or representative. Would
Council like to --
Cavener: One hundred percent.
De Weerd: Okay. I believe -- okay. Come on up. And the applicant always gets the last
word. Well, I kind of do, but --
King: Thank you. My name is Sandi King. 2543 East Linwood.
De Weerd: Thank you.
King: So, the point I would like to make here -- and I think it's paramount -- is that they
don't need to use Dashwood and Dashwood -- that the traffic count would be horrendous.
The ACHD study was done during spring break. It was on two ingress-egress roads, not
all five, so they didn't get anywhere near the traffic that flows through our subdivision, nor
was Dashwood counted. So, the point is -- and I don't know if you can see the -- the map,
but if you -- if you allowed Dashwood to be closed or just bollards and not opened until
Centrepoint Way actually is complete, they can reconfigure their subdivision and both
ingress and egress coming out of the Delano Subdivision can come out to Jasmine. You
have got two access points coming out, you're not using Dashwood, you're not destroying
the environmental comfortability -- I don't even know what to call it, but for -- on Dashwood
as far as having a livable space for their homes it is easily changed. It -- I don't get why
it's such a problem. I honestly don't. They don't need Dashwood. Unless they want a
pretty front to bring their customers in to sell. There is no other reason for them to use
Dashwood. We can either close it all together and -- and abandon it or we put bollards
up so that people can still ride their bikes and walk through. I hope and pray that you
guys can see what this is going to do to our subdivision. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. I know you have looked at this every which way. If you will state
your name for the record.
Conger: Yeah. Madam Mayor, Jim Conger again.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Conger: I will be fast. So -- so, as far as the location -- you know, first and foremost, you
know, blocking off Jasmine, which we went to ACHD and helped lobby after our neighbor
meetings. In hindsight it's probably a terrible precedent to set for -- for any connectivity
and that's probably why your staff was against it to begin with. So, you know, I don't know
if it's better to have both of them open. We definitely have access requirements of our
single family homes going to single family homes, going to the mid mile collector and the
traffic signal of Eagle Road. We -- we think the isolation -- and that's why we are -- we
are a little bit comfortable -- or a lot comfortable not having Centrepoint finished is you
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 78 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 58 of 74
have our new apartments that would occur, you have the Barracks apartments to the
south, all of that is going out Centrepoint Way. In their regulated traffic to the heavy
commercial area basically -- didn't mean to hit that. But -- but, yes, we are -- we are like
product to like product going out. At the end of the day we are less than the thousand
trips per day and -- and we, you know, definitely respective if we still have a -- you know,
a transition issue. We worked as hard as we could to get from three story down to two
and single level -- single family homes. So, we -- if you want to adjust our north boundary
I'm still open to that and I have no further questions, Madam Mayor. Thank you for your
time.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Conger: Or no further comment.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I will move something along. At least on part of it. I move with close the public
hearing on Item 7-C, H-2019-0027.
Cavener: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. All those in favor
say aye. All ayes.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: I think all ayes. Mr. Palmer, are you and aye?
Palmer: Yep.
De Weerd: Okay.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I move we approve the first portion of H-2019-0027, which is the request for a
comprehensive plat map amendment for the mixed use regional designation as
requested.
Cavener: Second.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 79 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 59 of 74
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to approve Item 7-C-1.
Borton: Correct. That --
De Weerd: Okay.
Borton: -- specific portion of the application.
De Weerd: Okay. Any discussion from Council? Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, absent; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea;
Bernt, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Borton: We moved on the items that were a little easier, at least got us down the road
somewhat, so --
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I didn't know if Councilman Borton had any other motions, so if not I will take a
crack at it. Madam Mayor, I move that we remand Item C-2 and 3 back to Planning and
Zoning Commission for the following reasons: To address the density issue of the
proposed development and to review -- I believe it will be a revised site plan, recognizing
the changes of the north border of the development of those homes that run alongside
North Della Street.
Little Roberts: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second. Discussion?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I have a chat on this. So, what I have tried to do here is summarize -- from the
concerns that I have heard from Council of density, leaving that somewhat nebulous to
allow the applicant to hear the feedback from Council, take another crack at this, but,
then, to drill down deeper to what we heard from the applicant is their willingness to
something I think is necessary to make a change to those homes on -- on Della. I -- I
agree with you, Council Member Borton, I think the single story makes a lot of sense. I
would -- I would hope that the applicant would do some single story and maybe lose -- to
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 80 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 60 of 74
appease everyone to lose maybe a lot of the duplex, open these lots up a little bit different.
To me I think that gets to the crux of the issues that I heard from -- at least this -- this
group. Council Member Borton, I think your piece and you are concern about Centrepoint
Way is valid. I guess I just feel like Dashwood is going to be able to handle the traffic
regardless, so I'm -- I'm supportive of it moving forward without any types of changes and
I think that your comments have been well heard by the applicant about something that
you're very concerned with, but at least it gives Planning and Zoning another opportunity
to look at this, it gives the applicant another opportunity to take a crack at this. I -- I
sympathize with the -- with the neighbors who have been through the wringer on this. I
have been through it, too. I appreciate the frustration. You're welcome to call me with
your frustrations and your calls, because I have been there as well.
De Weerd: Well, you can't. Not when the application is --
Cavener: That's fair. Thank you, Madam Mayor. But that's where my motion is coming.
That's at least the thought process behind it.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: The remarks with regards to addressing density encouraged the applicant to be
-- kind of take a more holistic view of the application and not just Della Street, but to the
extent there is an ability to design and address density in a broader context --
Cavener: Madam Mayor, if I can respond. In a word yes, which is -- which is why I noted
both of those things separately. I wanted to capture the applicant's comments specifically
about Della, but also leave -- again -- and approach the entire application separate from
that. I didn't want it just to be limited to Della.
De Weerd: I'm just going to represent the staff here for a moment. A remand with a
redesign is like a whole new application. So, it is like a whole new application and -- and
it is a lot of work. So, I just needed to speak on their behalf.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I appreciate you saying that and I don't -- it's not a motion that I make highly --
in part because of that. And maybe it's just how I'm visualizing in my head that this is not
a dramatic change. If it had to completely be erased and start fresh, then, I would be
more supportive of a denial, but I don't think that's the case. I appreciate your comment.
De Weerd: I -- I guess I would just make a comment, again, concerned about Dashwood
and -- and having an opportunity for more of an official entry onto Jasmine Street for the
subdivision to make it look like it's going to be a subdivision, not just a -- and maybe would
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 81 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 61 of 74
be a dead end at this point, but it would access to Centrepoint and it would still have traffic
flow both going north and south and east, just -- I think that Mrs. King came up and -- and
talked about that at the very end. So, at least for consideration for the applicant as they
look at bringing back a modified plan. And, of course, I won't be here, so it's just a
suggestion. Anything further? We do have a motion to remand. Any further direction if
-- assuming this motion passes, any further direction for the applicant and for those on
our Planning and Zoning Commission? Hearing none, Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll call: Borton, nay; Milam, absent; Cavener, yea; Palmer, nay; Little Roberts, yea;
Bernt, yea.
De Weerd: Okay. The ayes have it.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. TWO NAY. ONE ABSENT.
De Weerd: It's remanded back to Planning and Zoning and certainly the -- the neighbors
in the audience, if you're looking at when that might come back to the Planning and
Zoning, it will be listed -- I guess you can -- when might it -- well, I don't know. Check
online and with our city clerk or Planning Department. So, we appreciate you spending
a good portion of your evening with us tonight and we appreciate you being here. And
thank you so much for the civility that was present tonight. We do appreciate that.
D. Public Hearing for Inglewood Place ( H- 2019- 0090) by James
Petersen, The Pointe at Meridian, LLC, Located at 3250 E.
Victory Rd.
1. Request: Annexation and Zoning of 10. 29 acres of land with
C-C 3.76 acres) and R-15 (6.53 acres) zoning districts;
2. Request: Preliminary Plat consisting of (8) building lots and
(1) common lot on 8. 84 acres of land; and
3. Request: Conditional Use Permit for a multi-family
development consisting of (14) dwelling units on 1.91 acres
of land in the R-15 zoning district.
De Weerd: Okay. I will go ahead and open the next public hearing on 7-D. It is a public
hearing for H-2019-0090. I will open this with staff comments.
Allen: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. The next applications before
you are a request for annexation and zoning, preliminary plat, and two conditional use
permits. This site consists of 8.84 acres of land. It's zoned RUT in Ada county and it's
located at the northeast corner of South Eagle Road and East Victory Road. The
Comprehensive Plan future land use map designation is mixed use community.
Annexation and zoning is requested of 10.29 acres of land with C-C zoning, which
consists of 3.76 acres of the site and R-15 zoning, which consists of 6.53 acres of the
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 82 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 62 of 74
site. A conceptual development plan was submitted as shown, showing how the site is
proposed to develop with a mix of commercial retail, three pads sites and office, 12,300
square feet. A nursing and residential care facility and a senior age restricted 55 and
older cottages, which is considered multi-family in our city code because there are several
dwelling units on one property and the proposed development is consistent with the mixed
use community future land use map designation. A revised plan was submitted as shown
there on the right since the Commission hearing that reflects items discussed at the
hearing and in the staff report. A preliminary plat is proposed as shown to subdivide the
property consisting of eight building lots and one common lot. The plat is proposed to
develop in two phases, with the residential portion developing first on the east side of the
site. One right-in, right-out access is proposed via South Eagle Road and one full access
is proposed via East Victory Road with the provision of a new north-south local public
street, which will stub to the north boundary for future extension and interconnectivity and
that will eventually extend up to EasyJet, which has a signal. An access easement and
driveway is required to be provided to the property to the north in alignment with the
driveway along the east side of the retail pads for future interconnectivity and that is this
area right here. A 25 foot wide street buffer along Eagle and Victory Roads and a 25 foot
wide buffer to the residential use to the north on the C-C zoned property is required. The
McDonald lateral crosses the southwest corner of the site and is proposed to be piped.
There is an existing 15 foot wide ingress-egress easement that runs along the northern
boundary of the site benefiting the adjacent property owner that is required to be
preserved. An attached sidewalk exists along Eagle Road and along Victory Road on the
portion of the site nearest the intersection. A detached sidewalk is proposed where none
exists among the remainder of the frontage along Victory to the east boundary. In mixed
use developments public and quasi-public spaces and places are required to make up a
minimum of five percent of the development area. None of these types of spaces are
proposed. Therefore, a development agreement provision requires these spaces are
provided within the commercial portion of the development with building arranged to
create common usable area, such as plaza or green spaces, in accord with the
Comprehensive Plan. A conditional use permit is proposed for a multi-family residential
development consisting of 14 dwelling units on 1.91 acres of land in the R-15 district. And
that is these seven duplex style single level structures on the east side of the site that are
proposed for age restricted 55 and older independent living senior cottages. A minimum
of .1 of an acre of qualified open space is required to be provided within the development.
A total of .29 of an acre is proposed, exceeding UDC standards. Site amenities are
proposed consisting of a gazebo and barbecue area in accord with UDC standards. This
development will also have access to the amenities located in the adjacent nursing and
residential care facility. Off-street parking is proposed in excess of UDC standards. A
total of 14 covered spaces and 11 uncovered spaces are required. Fourteen garage
spaces, 14 driveway spaces and 25 surface parking spaces are proposed, for a total of
14 extra spaces. Another conditional use permit is proposed for a nursing or a residential
care facility on 3.48 acres of land in the R-15 district, consisting of 86 dwelling units. The
proposed structure varies in height from two to three stories and will house 46
independent living, 30 assisted living and ten memory care units. Parking is proposed in
excess of UDC standards. A minimum of 43 spaces are required. A total of 84 spaces
are proposed, consisting of 23 garage spaces and 61 surface or uncovered spaces.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 83 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 63 of 74
Conceptual building elevations were submitted for the residential care facility as shown,
which, as we stated, varies in height from two to three stories in high and the single level
duplex style senior cottages. Conceptual elevations for the 12,300 square foot office
structure, three stories and commercial retail pads proposed along Eagle, were also
submitted as shown. The commercial structures are required to incorporate some of the
same or similar design elements and construction materials as the residential
development to unify the development. All structures on the site are required to comply
with the design standards listed in the architectural standards manual and obtain design
review approval with the certificate of zoning compliance. The Commission
recommended approval of the proposed applications. Jim Petersen, the developer, Jacob
Shirley, Think Architects, David Gagliano property owner to the east and Matt Graham TO
Engineers testified in favor of the applications. No one testified in opposition. Jason
Attinger, HOA president for Sutherland Farm, commented on the application and written
testimony was received from John and Juanita Sharp, the property owners to the north.
John Carpenter, the applicant's representative, and he testified that he was in favor with
the staff report and recommended change to condition A-3-E. Key issues of public
testimony were as follows: The property owners to the north, the Sharps, requested their
access easement that lies on the northern portion of the site to be free of any curbing and
landscaping and that all buildings, berming and landscaping, be set back, so as not to
interfere with their easement and that is noted here along the north boundary of the site
in red. Secondly, there is safety concerns pertaining to proposed access via South Eagle
Road, specifically a left-in from Eagle and traffic backing up while cars are waiting to turn,
since there is no turn lane. Lastly, Mr. Attinger and Mr. Gagliano would like the applicant
to construct a new fence, possibly vinyl, along the east property boundary, to replace the
existing fence to avoid double fencing. The developer Jim Petersen agreed to work with
the neighbors on this. Key issues of discussion by the Commission are as follows: Future
access to the site from the north via Eagle Road. Staff -- just as a side note, staff did
recommend in the staff report originally that the access on Eagle would be temporary until
such time as access was available from the north at the light at EasyJet. Commission
voted to strike that condition and just have a right-in, right-in -- right-in, excuse me, right-
out access via Eagle Road. So, just a side note on that. They discussed the amount of
parking needed on the site in relation to how many spaces are proposed, i.e., how many
of the residents in the nursing and residential care facility have cars and the applicant
stated that not many of them do. The lack of common public, quasi-public space in the
commercial portion of the development and, lastly, concern pertaining to traffic flow
through the site, specifically the north-south public street proposed between the cottages
and the residential care facility and proposed two accesses via Eagle Road and Victory
Road. The Commission made the following changes to the staff recommendation. They
modified condition A-3-E in section eight to depict the existing access easement along
the northern boundary of the site to be free of trees and bushes. Grass is allowed. And
pedestrian walkways. Fencing shouldn't restrict access to the easement and its purpose.
Modification to condition A-1-F to remove the portion of the condition that limits the access
via Eagle Road to temporary, as I previously mentioned. Add a new condition requiring
the applicant to work with the adjacent neighbors on a new replacement fence as agreed
upon by the developer along the east boundary of the site and that's condition A-3-G.
And, finally, adding a new condition requiring the applicant to work with staff and ACHD
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 84 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 64 of 74
to implement traffic calming signage and/or safety measures on the public street entering
the site from Victory Road to assist with pedestrian safety and that's condition A-15. There
are no other -- no outstanding issues for Council tonight. Written testimony since the
Commission hearing was received from Butch Weedon. He requests no further
development is allowed on Eagle Road until the gridlock is relieved and Monica Ramsey
requests the project is denied due to existing traffic issues in this area that will worsen
with the proposed development. Staff will stand for any questions.
De Weerd: Thank you, Sonya. Council, any questions? Thank you. Would the applicant
like to comment? There you go.
Shirley: Jacob Shirley. I'm with Think Architects, Salt Lake City, Utah. Here on behalf of
the developer Jim Petersen. I think the theme of the night is cooperation. I did put
together some slides, but it looks like Sonya has included most of them in her
presentation, so I'm just going to use hers. With this project we have definitely tried our
best to cooperate with everybody who is involved in this and let me touch on some of
those points. For example, the very first meeting that we sat down with the city, the Fire
Department said they wanted to see extra parking stalls. That's something we have -- we
have held to throughout the entire design process is making sure that we have -- not only
are we meeting what is required of the parking stalls, but exceeding those and, then, later
the most recent recommendation from them is that the drive aisles in the parking is slightly
too small. So, after we had sent the application out last week, I jumped in there and I
expanded all the parking stalls -- or not -- the parking lanes, the drive aisles, to make sure
that they meet the requirements. Early on in the process we started working with ACHD
and there was a lot of discussion going back and forth. One of the big discussions was
where that location of Titanium Avenue was going to be proposed. They -- they really
wanted Titanium Avenue in there for connect -- connectivity. Also another buzzword of
the night. We wanted to make sure to connect to the neighbors, but we had an issue as
far as negotiating on where that was placed. Currently Titanium -- Titanium Avenue is
proposed where ACHD wants it and there was a lot of discussion. They don't want it any
further east. They don't want it any further west. So, they kind of designed that for us
and we cooperated and we worked with that. That goes the same with the right-in, right-
out to the west end of the property. There was a lot of discussion there with a lot of group
cooperation. We talked about how we can best address that. This is the solution that
was -- that was come up with. When I initially submitted the application, the landscape
plan showed a lot of trees and plantings along the northern boundary and in the -- the
comments we received back from the Planning Department there was a concern there
about a -- the easement that Sonya mentioned. We have -- we jumped in and we removed
all the trees and bushes from there. Landscape is going to be sure that there is going to
be no irrigation in there. All the lawn that's available is going to be sprayed from the side.
So, we are doing everything we can to cooperate with that. Also you know -- and this is
my fault, I should have included the neighbor's driveway. They have a gravel driveway
that overlaps on our project. That was mentioned in the recommendations. So, when we
took out the trees I hurried and put their gravel driveway in our plans to show that we want
to leave up there. Obviously we want to cooperate with our neighbors to the north and
make sure that they have access to their property. In the comments received there were
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 85 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 65 of 74
some trees in the McDonald Lateral, the irrigation ditch. We have gone back and removed
those. There was some comments as -- little minor things on the landscaping as far as
-- we need an evergreen shrub for every three linear feet of foundation along the street.
We hurried and adapted or changed our plans for that and also as -- as per the comments
in our -- in our last meeting with -- with the Planning, the neighbors did want to see a new
fence along the -- the eastern border -- the eastern boundary. So, we -- we read through
the -- the city ordinances and we tried to figure out what is it that Meridian wants the most
as far as their fencing and we have -- I had my landscape architect put together two
fences, the vinyl fence is the solid fence, is the one we are going to see on the boundaries
and on the interior of the project we need some fencing as far as the senior living facility,
as far as -- I mean our consultants -- our consultant told us that generally people in the
senior living facilities never go outside, which I thought was really sad. I still wanted to
provide that option to them. So, we have some yards that are fenced in, so nobody can
escape. I hate to use that phrase, but that's kind of the way it's been described to me. I
believe -- oh, okay. A bunch of little minor things. The -- Planning wanted to see a sign
at the end of Titanium that it will be connected in the future. I didn't think that was that
important of an issue, but now I understand that that is a very important issue. That sign
will be there at the end of Titanium. So, I just -- a slight little adjustment on the site plan,
while maintaining the quality and what we are -- we are -- we are providing there. One of
the comments that Planning made -- they were really concerned about people being able
to walk around in the parking lot. So, I went through and meticulously made sure that
there is crosswalks everywhere that I could get a crosswalk to make sure that pedestrians
have full ability to move around this site. And I hope that answers any questions you
might have about this.
De Weerd: Thank you. And thank you for listening in on the previous application. I heard
you pick up some real key words there. Council, any questions for the applicant at this
point?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Just a single question. I appreciate you going through all that detail. Every image
that we have seen -- and I don't know if this is a question for you or John. The right-in,
right-out, which is not temporary now, it's permanent on Eagle Road, all of the designs
look like they are full accesses. So, I didn't know if you had an image which shows -- I
mean there is right-in, right-out that -- that make it impossible to try and left out onto Eagle
Road. Or at least comment on how we can be certain that is --
Shirley: I think that could be -- if it -- if it doesn't appear like a right-in, right-out, that could
be my lack of illustrating that appropriately. I guess since I drew the curbs I assumed that
it would be painted on the road.
Borton: Yeah, we have seen -- Madam Mayor. We have seen some where it's just like
little bulbs that -- you really -- you could take a left out and take a left south on Eagle
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 86 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 66 of 74
Road, because it's really not and there is others -- and you have seen then, John, where
if you want -- yeah. Yeah. Come on up and just speak to that, because I was -- that left
out to Eagle Road would be the worst.
Carpenter: John Carpenter. 332 North Broadmore. Yeah. Thank you. Good to see
everybody tonight.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Carpenter: Curb out in Eagle Road. So, ACHD doesn't allow those -- wishbone is what
we used to always call them. Porkchop. Whatever. Because people just drive right
around those. So, they require a raised curb on the middle of the Eagle Road, so you
can't physically turn left in or out. And also our drawing -- we have to put in -- if I can get
that mouse working -- a drop lane right here to get in.
Borton: Okay.
Shirley: So, ACHD was -- was fine with this right-in, right-out as a permanent solution.
Borton: Okay.
Shirley: That was an idea from staff early on. We didn't really debate that too much, but
we would prefer that it is a permanent right-in, right-out, only because somebody buying
a lot out here, they got to know, is this going to be an access or not and, then, who gets
rid of it in the future.
De Weerd: While you're up there -- why didn't they ask you to put in a turn lane?
Shirley: I'm sorry?
De Weerd: Why did they not ask you to put in a turn lane? Isn't that what I understood?
Shirley: Madam Mayor, they actually did ask us to put in a turn lane onto the right-in and
-- actually, that is the requirement from ACHD.
De Weerd: Okay. I thought I heard -- well, thank you. Good job. Fix it right there. Thank
you. Any other questions for the applicant?
Bongiorno: Madam Mayor, over here on the Fire Department side again.
De Weerd: Thank you for noting that. Hi, Joe.
Bongiorno: Quick question on -- I heard something about traffic calming. It was mixed in
with the walkways or something.
Shirley: It's the -- are you referring to the conversation about traffic calming on Titanium?
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 87 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 67 of 74
Bongiorno: I heard traffic calming. That's all I heard. I wanted to know what it is.
Shirley: Well, I did mention that I went through and made sure we had crosswalks through
the drive aisles in the parking lot everywhere that I believe they need to be. Plus some.
To make sure that it's as safe as -- for pedestrians as possible.
De Weerd: There is going to be a speed bump every hundred yards.
Bongiorno: I know. That's what I wanted to make sure. Because traffic calming to me is
speed bumps and we -- I don't do speed bumps. So, we need to talk if you were planning
speed bumps in there.
Shirley: You know, speed bumps haven't even crossed my mind at this point.
Bongiorno: Okay. Awesome. If they do give me a call.
Shirley: They won't.
De Weerd: That was the right answer I think. Unless you call them pillows and, then,
apparently, that's better.
Carpenter: John Carpenter again. What we envision there is pedestrian crossings or
stamped concrete. So, ACHD -- when you feel that texture change we consider it a -- a
traffic calming. Or sometimes we will actually neck down the curb and gutter, make the
street a little narrower. But one of those two is what ACHD likes.
Bongiorno: Got it. Thank you.
Carpenter: Yeah. You're welcome.
De Weerd: ACHD needs to do more of that. There are no further questions. Thank you.
Shirley: Thank you for your time.
De Weerd: Thank you. Mr. Clerk.
Johnson: Madam Mayor, there are three sign-ins. Two are from Alpine Pointe and I
believe they are gone, and the third is Mr. John Sharp.
De Weerd: Thank you for hanging in with us. We appreciate your -- your tenacity and
appreciate you being here.
Sharp: My name is John Sharp. 3020 South Eagle Road. And I'm the property owner
just directly north of this particular project and I have been there for over 30 years and so
waiting a few minutes wasn't too bad. We have resolved ourselves to the fact that things
are going to change out there and they have and I don't have a problem with the project
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 88 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 68 of 74
itself, but the easement across the -- the north part of their property is part of my
emergency access to get to my irrigation pump. So, I need to -- well, it's also the access
to my back property, the first two hundred and some feet I use every day to get to my
back property. So, I got to have that opened up. The other portion that goes on back I
use to maintain my pump in an emergency when -- when something goes down and I
have to take a vehicle back there with a generator in it in order to do the work on it or
pump out the well house. So, I need to have that -- and I didn't see the revised
landscaping. So, I'm glad to see that they removed the trees and the shrubs and stuff
there, so that I wouldn't make hinges out of the trees and the only other thing that I would
request is that there was some kind of an access gate or something put into the back
near my pump, so that I can go through their perimeter fence in order to get to the pump
and they seem to accommodate us with most of the stuff, but the easement is important
to me and access to the pump is important. And that's really all I have, other than it's
inevitable that that property is going to go and this seems like it's working out all right.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Sharp. Any questions? Thank you. Is there any further
testimony? Okay. Would the applicant like to close this? Good evening.
Petersen: Good evening. Thank you for your time. James Petersen. Salt Lake City. My
address is 6609 Old Mill Circle. Yeah. I mean it's been a pretty smooth process. Of
course, a little longer than we always like, but the process has gone great and I think the
neighbors have been pretty favorable. We have had a couple neighborhood meetings
that have been very positive and as far as the access gates, yes, that -- I mean that won't
be a problem. We will honor the easement.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Petersen: Any other --
De Weerd: And I'm sure you will work with Mr. Sharp afterwards.
Petersen: Absolutely.
De Weerd: Thank you for that. Council, any questions?
Petersen: Okay. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Council, any -- if there is nothing further, I would entertain
a motion to close the public hearing.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I move we close the public hearing on Item 7-D.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 89 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 69 of 74
Bernt: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. All those in favor
say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I move we approve Item 7-D, H-2019-0090, as reflected in the staff report of
today's date and inclusive of the comments of the applicant and particularly the addition
of the gate that's been referenced.
Bernt: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 7-D as stated. Any discussion?
Okay. Mr. Clerk.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, absent; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea;
Bernt, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Thank you so much.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
E. Resolution No. 19-2174: A Resolution of the Mayor and the City
Council of the City Of Meridian Approving a Welcome to
Meridian Signage Plan
De Weerd: Item 7-E is Resolution 19-2174. I will turn this over to Caleb. Thanks for
hanging out with us.
Hood: I was hanging out in my office, so --
De Weerd: I -- I know.
Hood: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. In 2010 the city put together
a sign plan and installed some metal signs on the perimeter of our city boundaries
generally. Those metal signs largely move as the city limits progress outward and some
of them will stay at our ultimate city boundaries on -- on kind of the less intense arterial
roadways. Earlier this spring it was brought up by Mr. -- Mr. Cavener and some others
that our sign plan really wasn't a plan at all, it was just a map that had 23 some signs on
it and an ultimate location in our GIS database and a couple of comp plan policies. So,
we have been working on putting some text together and that's largely what you have
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 90 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 70 of 74
before you tonight is a resolution on the first page, but, then, it's got some background
information on what the sign plan is, how we will implement that plan. Some specifications
on what the signs are, both the metal signs and the monument signs. Excuse me. And,
then, that same -- largely the same map and list. There have been some modifications
to the map, both from the legend and the location and number of some of those signs
from what originally occurred or was put together in -- in 2010. Again, there are 22
locations identified in that map for the monument signs. It might say monument signs.
There is actually three different sizes and designs of those monuments. There are four
of them in existence. That includes the metal sign that's out in front of KFC at the split
corridor, so that one's included, but that's a different design than the rest of the signs that
are envisioned. There is one on Fairview in front of CarMax. There is one on Linder
Road just north of Chinden that was put in by that development and, then, there is --
forgetting the one -- yes. South Eagle. Thank you. And that's the one by the hotel I
guess. So, on the south side of Eagle, yeah, and I-84. So, those four exist. So, this plan
is currently cross-referenced in our draft comp plan that you mentioned we will be hearing
next week. We had a subcommittee look at the -- all those policies. They pared it down
from three different policies that talked about the city implementing the sign plan to
basically requiring developers to implement the sign plan and, then, some hybrid mix.
What I hope I have done is make it -- make it more clear. We are still open to partnerships
on that, if someone wants to do, but, really, the intention to implement this is through the
budget amendment or budget process annually. That's not to say that every year we will
propose to build one or two or three of these signs, but that's the more regular way that
these signs will come into existence through an enhancement request put together by
staff and approved by Council to build these as time and other resources allow and, again,
at the pleasure of the Mayor and Council to build the sign. So, still open in the text of
that, so if a developer -- so, CarMax, for example, they really -- when they came into our
community they wanted to put the sign in for us. They wanted to be part of the community.
They said let us do this for you. We want to do it. Some other developers have -- we
kind of drag them along saying you will do this, right, for our community. That's only been
a couple of times, but I think that was some of the rub with -- with the plan was it wasn't
really a plan. So, anyways, I hope that comes through in this draft resolution and the sign
plan that, really, the implementation of the plan is more on city staff to propose a plan to
build the next key corridor or key location signs. We do have -- we do have some
agreements. St. Luke's, for instance, has been willing to partner with us and at least allow
us the easement to build a sign. So, if we want to put one there, funds are available, they
have given us the right to go ahead and construct one and parks will maintain it. So, we
haven't asked for that, but don't be surprised if that doesn't happen sometime in the near
future. So, with that I stand before you with any questions and would appreciate you
approving the resolution before you tonight.
De Weerd: Thank you, Caleb. Council, any questions? Comments?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 91 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 71 of 74
Cavener: Caleb, sorry, this just popped into my head. I know at one point there was
some concern about price to construct these larger monument signs and have we done
any truthing on those? I mean are they -- nothing -- nothing government ever does is a
-- but I mean do we have a good sense as to what -- if we wanted to do one of these what
it would cost these days?
Caleb: So, Madam Mayor, Councilman Cavener, it seems like that's changing all the time.
That one in front of the Tru Hotel is -- is our most recent one and that -- that was
substantially more than what we envisioned. It's probably a better question -- I haven't
actually ground truthed that. Public Works managed that project.
Cavener: Okay.
Caleb: I don't know where that came in as far as budget. Don't quote me on this, but it's
somewhere between 20 and 25 thousand dollars, I think, for the sign. Now, again, is it
more or less today? I don't know. That was a year ago and prices can fluctuate. But it's
more than it was five years ago. Certainly those prices seem to be raising rather quickly.
Cavener: Madam Mayor, additional questions. Then -- follow up, Caleb. On the map,
Exhibit No. 5, DA for Fast Eddy's currently includes the requirement I think for a
monument sign. In light of the direction that these are more city driven, does that
requirement still exist when we adopt this plan? Does it get eliminated? What -- what
direction do we give that individual in terms of what is expected of them moving forward?
Caleb: Yeah. Good question. Madam Mayor, Councilman Cavener. So, I got your
comments and I tried to incorporate some of those. Even if you took it off -- and you could
take it off this map. The development agreement still exists. So, the Eddy's, if they don't
want to do that sign that's on -- in front of the new Fast Eddy's there on Eagle Road, they
need to propose that to you all and do a development agreement modification and that
doesn't mean you can't take it out of this resolution now, but it will not change the contract
that they are -- currently entered into with -- with the city.
Cavener: Madam Mayor? Caleb, thanks. I was just reading that, because I think we had
had some conversation about that piece previously. I just want to make sure we close
the loop on it. So, thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other conversations?
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor? I'm trying to figure out -- because we have got some new
signage coming forward with our hands free, so people will need to know that we are in
Meridian and need to be hands free. Is there any way to tie that in with the metal signs?
And especially because I think like -- and I guess two different things here, but my concern
with putting a monument sign at Fast Eddy's -- people already think they are in Meridian.
I know -- why I know right where that one is south of the freeway is because, one, I drive
by it all the time, and, two, I have gotten so many questions regarding -- when was I out
of Meridian. They think that -- I just got off the freeway, I have been in Meridian since I
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 92 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 72 of 74
entered what I thought was Meridian on the freeway and, then, off -- all of a sudden here
is this sign welcome to Meridian. So, it's caused it seems like a lot of confusion more
than welcome.
Caleb: Yeah. And, Madam Mayor, Councilman Little Roberts, but that's something, again,
that -- it's been almost a decade now since the sign plan was put together. Back when
we put it together the thought was, yes, you have been in Meridian on the freeway, but
you have been driving at 65 or 70 miles an hour and you haven't -- you're coming into our
community now. You have been driving on the interstate. So, we have one of those at
each of the off ramps along I-84. We weren't trying to confuse people, but it's really the
first opportunity to really welcome -- welcome them to our community, even though they
could have been in our community for six or eight miles already. So, again, that's kind of
the thought process. If you don't like that we can remove some of the signs. I like where
you are going and I hadn't thought about -- and, just by the way, last Monday during the
Meridian Transportation Commission that came up, the putting up the Welcome To
Meridian Hands Free Community signage and those conversations are still ongoing with
ITD and ACHD both, with our Police Department trying to figure out how to notify people
and bigger discussion on -- you don't have to necessarily put those up. We don't put all
laws on signs up everywhere all the time and all the rules, but, anyways, I think we can
potentially co-locate some of those on the metal signs, because generally we are pretty
good about those being on our -- our boundary. So, I will bring that up and see if that's
-- if that's an option.
De Weerd: Well -- and we will have a budget amendment in front of Council maybe next
week or the following week from the Police Department. They received a grant from the
Office of Highway Safety to cover signs and to help us with a PR campaign and -- and all
of that. So, really excited about that. Stephanie, second day on the job, that she landed
a big one, so, she's -- she's been very diligently working that. So, if -- if that's certainly a
strategy, we can -- we will look at that and even know how many signs we need, so we
can co-locate if that's a possibility. Excellent. Any other questions for Caleb?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Not a question, but just a comment. Caleb, thanks for your -- your collaboration
on this. It kind of goes back to our -- one of our land use applications. It was -- it was
collaboration. It was -- Caleb kind of told me when I was off base and me trying to let
Caleb know where I think we needed to be and it was -- it was healthy and it was respectful
dialogue. Almost a year ago -- I feel like it was right around Christmastime that we really
started bouncing this idea and I think the finished product is really good and I appreciate
your help and guidance and collaboration on it. Really enjoyed that.
Caleb: Well, thank you and I do apologize, I would have hoped to have this done, but --
I knew we could get it done just before the comp plan. So, you know --
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 93 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 73 of 74
Cavener: Didn't have anything else going on.
De Weerd: Just sliding it in; right?
Caleb: Yeah.
De Weerd: Okay. Anything further? Thank you, Caleb. Appreciate your work and I know
you and your team have been stretched and really appreciate your work. Okay. Council?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I move we approve Resolution No. 19-2174, a resolution of the Mayor and City
Council, the City of Meridian approving the Welcome To Meridian signage plan.
Bernt: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Mr. Clerk.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, absent; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea;
Bernt, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 8: Future Meeting Topics
De Weerd: Is there anything for Item 8? Hearing none, I would entertain a motion to
adjourn our City Council meeting.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I move we adjourn.
Cavener: Second.
Bernt: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to adjourn. All those in favor say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda November 26, 2019 – Page 94 of 352
Meridian City Council
November 12, 2019
Page 74 of 74
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 10:14 P.M.
(AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
11 / 2 —
MAY TA Y DE WEERD OAucUsr DATE APPROVED
ATTES W =o "
IDIAN�--
CHR J S - CITY C K IDAHO
SEAL
�JFR or me TRF