HomeMy WebLinkAbout2019-10-22 Regular MinutesMeridian City Council October 22, 2019.
A Meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 6:10 p.m., Tuesday, October
22, 2019, by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Tammy de Weerd, Joe Borton, Genesis Milam, Luke Cavener, Ty
Palmer, Anne Little Roberts and Treg Bernt.
Also Present: Chris Johnson, Bill Nary, Bill Parsons, Kyle Radek, Mark Ford, Joe
Bongiorno and Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll-call Attendance:
Roll call.
X__ Anne Little Roberts X _ _Joe Borton
X__ Ty Palmer X__ Treg Bernt
__X___Genesis Milam __X___Lucas Cavener
__X__ Mayor Tammy de Weerd
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you for allowing us a few minutes to break between the two
meetings, but welcome to our City Council meeting. We appreciate you joining us. For
the record it is Tuesday, October 22nd. It's ten minutes after 6:00. We will start with roll
call attendance, Mr. Clerk.
Item 2: Pledge of Allegiance
De Weerd: Item No. 2 is the Pledge of Allegiance. If you will all rise and join us in the
pledge to our flag.
(Pledge of Allegiance recited.)
Item 3: Community Invocation by Larry Woodard of Ten Mile Christian Church
De Weerd: Item 3 is our community invocation. Tonight we will be led by Larry Woodard.
He is with Ten Mile Christian Church. If you will all join us in the community invocation or
take this as an opportunity for a moment of silence. Welcome, Larry.
Woodard: Good evening. Our Dear Heavenly Father, you have blessed this city with a
great Mayor and City Council this past year. It has been a year of unprecedented growth
and change and we thank you for the guidance this Council has provided and we look
forward to a new year of change. I was honored to see a new photo of the Meridian Police
Department out in front of their office. The 115 man force was impressive and we are
fortunate to have them patrolling our streets and neighborhoods. It's one reason we have
a good and growing city. This fall as the weather changes we can expect changes as
children go to school. Protect them from the winter weather and traffic as they make their
way to school. Our fire department and city maintenance crews are still hard at work with
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a new fire station on the south side of town as Meridian grows south at an alarming rate.
The new Amazon distribution center of a thousand workers is going up next to Meridian
and the impact will certainly affect many of our city functions. Ten Mile Road is undergoing
reconstruction this fall and our prayer is for the safety of workers and the general public
as work progresses this fall. A new school is being planned west of the city and we pray
this change happens safely and quickly. Lastly, we are saying goodbye to our longtime
Mayor Tammy as she ends a career of public service in the next few weeks. We just pray
that her retirement will be restful and long, in Jesus' name, amen.
De Weerd: Thank you, Larry. This is -- generally when Larry Woodard leads us in prayer
it is generally an overview of the City of Meridian and you just heard it. Thank you, Larry.
He is reporting to God and I'm glad it's still a good one and -- and I would like to welcome
our troop in the front row. Thank you for joining us. We always love to see our scouts in
the audience, so thank you.
Item 4: Adoption of Agenda
De Weerd: Okay. Item 4 is adoption of the agenda.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: We were able to tackle 9-A in a work session, so we are going to rearrange one
item and move 9-H, which is the Silverstone Apartments, to be the new 9-A and that is
the one change. So, I move we adopt the amended agenda.
Cavener: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second and just make note to any that might be here
for 9-H, that's being requested to continue and so we have moved it to the top, so we can
understand that, so -- I have a motion and a second to approve the agenda as changed.
All those in favor say aye. Any opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 5: Consent Agenda
A. Approve Minutes of October 15, 2019 City Council Work Session
B. Approve Minutes of October 15, 2019 City Council Regular
Meeting
C. Castlecreek Subdivision Sanitary Sewer & Water Main
Easement
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D. Edgehill Subdivision No. 1 Pedestrian Pathway Easement
E. Pine Avenue 4-Plex Easement
F. Sky Mesa Sub No. 2 Sewer Main Easement
G. Temporary Construction Easement with Lynette May Family
Trust of 3096 N. Elisha Ave. for the Repair/Replacement of a
Sewer Service.
H. Final Plat for Gander Creek South Subdivision No. 1 (H-2019-
0108) by Trilogy Idaho, Located SW of the Intersection of N.
McDermott Rd. and W. McMillan Rd.
I. Final Plat for Little Creek No. 2 (H-2019-0103) by JUB Engineers,
Located at 1440 N. Locust Grove Rd.
J. Amended Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for Millbrae
Subdivision (H-2019-0066) by WHPacific, Located at 4888 and
4920 W. Cherry Ln.
K. Revised Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for Stapleton
Subdivision (H-2018-0129) by Stapleton, LLC , Located at the
SW corner of S . Meridian Rd./SH 69 and W. Harris St.
L. Cooperative Agreement Between the City and Valley Regional
Transit for “Annual Dues and Service Contribution” for a Not-
To-Exceed amount of $317,857.00 and Capital Contribution of
419,000.00 for a Grand Total of $736,857.00.
M. Development Agreement for Caldera Canyon (H-2019-0062) with
Vanessa Klaus (Owner/Developer), Located at 1294 E . Leigh
Field Dr.
N. Development Agreement for Silver Springs (H-2019-0058) with
Leigh & Donna Brinkerhoff, Todd Campbell Construction, Inc.
and Boos Homes, Inc., Boyd Hill and David A. Meyers (Owners)
and Tall Timber Consulting, LLC and Todd Campbell
Construction, Inc. Developer) Located at 1035, 1157, 805 & 905
E . McMillan Rd.
O. Development Agreement for Three Corners Ranch (H-2019-
0006) with Sweet Land Development, Inc. (Developer ) and David
J. and Luane Dean (Owners), Located at 1890 E . Dunwoody Ct.
P. Approval of Purchase Order 20-0060 to Eidebailly for Fiscal Year
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2019 Audit Services for the Not-to-Exceed Amount of
$53,800.00.
Q. Approval of Purchase Order #20-0087 to Varsity Facility
Services for Fiscal Year 2020 Janitorial Services for the Not-to-
Exceed Amount of $237,853.80
R. Approval of Task Order 10036.a to Mountain Waterworks for the
WRRF Sidestream Phosphorus Removal Project for the Not-to-
Exceed amount of $123,048.00
S. Approval of Task Order 10550.c to SPF Water Engineering for
Well 9 Replacement for the Not-to-Exceed amount of
$129,000.00
T. Master Agreement for Professional Services: Park Identities
Public Art Roster Between Stephanie Inman and the City of
Meridian
U. Master Agreement for Professional Services: Park Identities
Public Art Roster Between Trademark Sign Company, Inc. and
the City of Meridian
V. ACHD Impact Fee Assessment and Deferral Agreement for Ten
Mile Medical Office Building
W. AP Invoices for Payment - 10/15/19 - $671,799.54 Special
X. AP Invoices for Payment - 10/23/19 - $2,916,479.89
De Weerd: Item 5, our Consent Agenda.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: There were no changes as published, so I move we approve the Consent
Agenda. For the Mayor to sign and the Clerk to attest.
Cavener: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve the Consent Agenda. If there is no
discussion, Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea; Bernt,
yea.
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De Weerd: All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 6: Items Moved from the Consent Agenda
De Weerd: There were no items moved from the Consent Agenda.
Item 7: Announcements
De Weerd: Council, I have nothing of note to add to the announcements, other than we
do have Trunk or Treat this week and hope you are all ready to see the streets of our
downtown filled with all kinds of fun little characters. They come on all shapes and sizes.
So --
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Cavener: Wasn't there a town hall meeting coming up?
De Weerd: Oh. And a town hall tomorrow night. Good point. Tomorrow night at Meadow
Lake Village we would love to have all of you in attendance as well. It's an unplugged,
so we have asked the residents of Meadow Lake Village and it went out on social media
asking for questions that citizens would like to have answered. It's never too late, so if
you have questions you would like to submit that will be answered at our town hall
meeting, we would love to hear from you and we will be live streaming it, so if you can't
join us you can check in online and -- and we will -- we will bring the answers if we can.
Okay. Thank you, Mr. Cavener for reminding me of that -- about that.
Item 8: Future Meeting Topics - Public Forum (Up to 30 Minutes Maximum)
De Weerd: Okay. Item 8 under future meeting topics. Mr. Clerk.
Johnson: Madam Mayor, there are actually two sign-ins. One is for compression brakes,
which is on your agenda tonight. The other is referencing a project that is actually an
active hearing application with the Planning and Zoning Commission. It is scheduled to
be heard Thursday.
De Weerd: Okay. And just to note that if you signed up under the public comment, if it is
regarding an active application we can only hear it through the public process, so that
public hearing is on Thursday night. So, if you need further clarification if you will talk to
our clerk he can give you additional information.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
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De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Maybe also just add if you're unable to attend that meeting, then, you can e-
mail the Council and Planning and Zoning Commission so it becomes part of the public
record.
Item 9: Action Items
A. Public Works: Solid Waste Survey Results – Removed from
Agenda
H. Public Hearing for Silverstone Apartments (H-2019-0099) by
Dave Evans Construction, Located at 4107 E . Overland Rd.
(Became Item 9-A)
1. Request: Modified Development Agreement for the purpose
of removing the subject property from DA Instrument # 2018-
012457 and DA Instrument # 2018-012456 and be placed in
a new, separate agreement.
De Weerd: Yes. Okay. If there is nothing else, Mr. Clerk, Item 9-A, which is 9-H, this is
requesting continuance. No request for a continuance is for granted. We will want to
hear the reason behind the -- the request. I will open the public hearing for H-2019-0099
and ask staff the basis behind the request for continuance.
Parsons: Yes. Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. So, you have had a
chance to read the staff report and, essentially, what's happening is, just for clarification
for the audience members as well, is this property is actually taking two paths as they go
forward. So, a little bit of history and, then, I will share the continuance a little bit with you.
So, essentially, the DA restricts the number of units on this particular property. Because
the DA controls the number of units, the applicant has to have the DA amended first before
-- and the CUP mod has to go to Planning and Zoning Commission. So, therefore, the
Council will act on the DA mod and we scheduled the conditional use permit modifications
for P&Z on the same weeks, in anticipation to help the applicant move forward through
the construction process of this project. Now as the reason for the continuance is as we
evaluated the conceptual development plan we realized that the applicant should
probably lose some of the units and add some more open space as part of the project
and so those were some recommendations that we had provided to you in our -- in our
staff report. The applicant got the staff report and wanted some time to analyze that
request and see what they could do to amend those plans to see if that would work for
their client and that's why they requested a continuance. Right now in their e-mail to you
they haven't requested a date certain. My recommendation is at the earliest that we
continue this to, if you choose to do so, is November 12th. That way it gives staff
adequate time to react to any changes the applicant might bring forward, so that we can
bring forward either a memo or modify the staff report, so you can have the most current
changes to that project before you as you take action on it. But, certainly, if you don't
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want to honor the request for continuance this evening, staff is ready to present the
product to you and move forward with the recommendation as stated in the staff report.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you, Bill. So, Council, you have kind of three different options
to pursue. You can ask the applicant and make a decision on whether to continue this.
You can continue it with renoticing and a mailing similar to what you have done in the past
or you can hear the project this evening. So, I will ask you at this point for discussion.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I would like to hear from the applicant to make sure that if we do continue this we
are getting it on a date that gives them ample time to make the changes that need to be
made.
De Weerd: And I -- I'm curious how many in the audience tonight are here on this item, if
you will raise your hand. Okay. Thank you. Would the applicant like to comment?
Yes.
Powell: Good evening. I'm Rob Powell with Dave Evans Construction, the applicant.
Address is 7761 West Riverside, Suite 100, Garden City.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Powell: We agree with kind of Bill's synopsis of the reasoning behind us requesting the
continuance. This is a big project. It's a complicated project. There is a lot of parts to it.
One of the -- one of the requested conditions of approval is to decrease the number of
units by 12 and that's -- that -- that could really make or break the project for us. We just
received the staff report late Friday and just need a little bit more time to kind of work with
our design team, also our clients to see the feasibility. We would love to comply with that,
but -- but we need to look into those things. A continuance would also give us a little bit
more time to kind of analyze some of staff's concerns and see if there is maybe even
other solutions that could work better for that. So, that's -- that's the reason.
De Weerd: Council, any questions?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I think Council Member Milam has inquired about the date. Staff has suggested
November 12th.
Powell: Oh. Yeah. We are -- that's great.
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Cavener: Okay.
Powell: We like that.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: We don't necessarily love continuing items, but I just want to say thank you for
being proactive and trying to, you know, make those changes and make this a better
project before bringing it and hearing public testimony so far.
Powell: Oh. Thank you. I would also add that we have been -- we have really tried to
communicate well with the neighbors. A lot of those -- earlier today we let them -- at least
kind of one of the -- the representatives of the neighbors know that we were going to
request this and I'm sure a lot of those neighbors aren't here because of that. A lot of
those neighbors oppose our project and we would probably have a better chance, but out
of fairness to them as well I think a continuance would be appropriate.
De Weerd: I appreciate that you let the neighbors know and that's -- I appreciate that
you told us that. I kind of was thinking there would be more people as well.
Powell: Yeah. And I apologize for those who didn't hear in advance. Like I said, we got
the staff report late Friday. We have been in contact with staff yesterday and today and
tried to do it earlier than that. So, there is a few neighbors who showed up here and I
apologize that they didn't know about it before.
De Weerd: Well, now they will have an opportunity to talk to you one on one out in the
lobby.
Powell: Yeah.
De Weerd: Council, any other questions for the applicant? Thank you. So, at this point,
Council, you do have the couple of citizens and the problem with asking for public
comment on an application that will -- is most likely to change or maybe not, but providing
testimony on something that could look different when it comes back to Council is -- is
awkward. But, Council, what would you like to do at this time?
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: I move that we continue Item No. H-2019-0099 to November 12th.
Milam: Second.
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De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to continue the public hearing for Silverstone
Apartments, H-2019-0099, to November 12th. All those in favor --
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: I'm sorry.
Borton: I was going to cut in --
De Weerd: Yes.
Borton: A little quick discussion for it. I think --
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Sorry. I'm supportive of the motion, but to the applicant's comments on
communication with the neighbors, which is fantastic, the staff comments, which -- which
reference some redesign and there is going to be some new renderings, I assume that it
would be really helpful for those to be shared with the -- probably the neighborhood group,
an e-mail list that you have got, prior to the meeting so they got a chance to review it. It
makes that communication and comment on the 12th much more productive, so --
De Weerd: I guess the -- did the motion intend to address public noticing?
Bernt: Yes. I was -- Madam Mayor, thank you for saying that. I would like also to add to
that motion that the applicant renotice and -- and be responsible for the cost of that
renoticing.
Milam: I agree.
De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Madam Mayor, I guess just for those that are -- the public that's in attendance
are they able to attend that meeting on the 12th?
De Weerd: If you cannot we would love to get your -- your comments in writing and --
and if you can't we will we -- we will figure out how to take your testimony.
Johnson: Madam Mayor, as far as noticing, the earliest we could get in Meridian press,
if we renoticed tomorrow, would be November 1st, which would not meet the guidelines
statutorily for noticing. So, we would either have to go to November 19th or change your
motion regarding the noticing.
De Weerd: Thank you. That's an important detail.
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Cavener: Madam Mayor, you know, I typically am in favor of -- of renoticing. It appears
that the applicant is doing an adequate job of communicating with the neighbors. This is
a meeting that was before us tonight, we are continuing it, I don't think there has been
any action by the applicant that is adverse to the public, so I'm not supportive of requiring
the applicant to renotice or to pay for it. I think that we can embrace the Meridian Way
and educate the public via NextDoor, through social media, but requiring signage and
posting in the newspaper to me doesn't seem necessary, given that we are just continuing
this.
De Weerd: It's consistent to what we have done in the past, but we do have a motion on
the table and the motion is to continue this to November 12th and since we here it can't
meet noticing processes, we either need a new motion or --
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Bernt: I would like to change that date to the 19th of November if that's okay.
De Weerd: Okay. Does second agree?
Milam: Second agrees.
De Weerd: So, the motion is to continue this to November 19th --
Nary: Madam Mayor, that is the night of the comp plan.
De Weerd: Oh.
Nary: So, probably not the best night to have --
De Weerd: The night of the comp plan is going to be consumed with the Comprehensive
Plan. True.
Johnson: Madam Mayor, we can renotice via Next Door and our website, we just couldn't
statutorily meet the deadline for newspaper and postcards. But we could certainly reach
out and we do have a lot of public testimony received, so we could e-mail them, anybody
who has provided comment that it has been continued and, then, the partner application
of this is being heard at Planning and Zoning Thursday, where I believe they are also
requesting continuance. So, there will be several ways the public will be notified that the
continuance is happening if you choose November 19th.
De Weerd: And, Mr. Clerk, could -- since we already have the mailing list, is there not a
chance that we can do mailers before November 12th?
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Johnson: We absolutely can. We could -- Madam Mayor, we could mail those as early
as tomorrow, we just --
De Weerd: It's the just newspaper notice. Okay.
Johnson: It could still be in the newspaper prior to then, it just would not be in the
newspaper 14 days prior.
De Weerd: Oh. Okay.
Johnson: So, we are not -- we are not really meeting the code as far as that, but it's an
additional step we could do and I believe Mr. Nary can correct me if I'm wrong, but we
could certainly do that, because we have noticed before. We just couldn't count that as
the 14 days.
De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Nary, anything you want to add?
Nary: Madam Mayor, no. Mr. Johnson is right, I mean as long as -- if the direction is not
to necessarily meet the statutory notice, but provide the noticing as Mr. Johnson's office
can provide, I think that's adequate. We are just wanting to make sure we weren't violating
the ordinance or the statutory rules.
De Weerd: Okay. Well, one more try, Mr. Bernt. Well, yeah, because right now you are
continuing it to the 19th.
Bernt: Madam Mayor, I move that we continue this item to the 12th and not require any
type of formal noticing. However, we can maybe send out mailers and do the things
necessary in which to notify as many citizens as possible via NextDoor and other
methods. Is that good?
Borton: Second.
De Weerd: Yes. It was seconded, so it sounds good to me. The motion is to continue
this to November 12th with the noticing that we can do, without the newspaper. Do you
want to try another?
Bernt: No. I'm good.
De Weerd: Okay. All those in favor say aye. Any opposed? Thank you.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
B. Final Plat for Entrata Farms No. 2 (H-2019-0113) by FIG Village
at Parkside, LLC , Located at 3882 W. Franklin Rd .
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De Weerd: Item 9-B, final plat for H-2019-0113. This applicant has also requested a
continuance to November 6th, 2019. Mr. Parsons, any comments on this?
Parsons: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, essentially what happened is the
applicant has modified their landscape plans since we processed the final plat application
for you, so they have asked for that to be tabled and staff is requesting that they provide
us a new open space exhibit to analyze the open space with phase two and that's why
it's actually being tabled at this point to get us that information, so we can make sure that
the plat conforms to the approved preliminary plat and the landscape plan approved with
that project.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, do I have in motion?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Move we continue Item 9-B, H-2019-0113, to November 6th.
Milam: Second.
Cavener: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to continue Item 9-B to November 6th.
All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
C. Public Hearing Continued from October 15, 2019 for City of
Meridian Business Hours
De Weerd: Okay. Item 9-C is a continued public hearing for public comment regarding a
proposed pilot project for city facility business hours to consider a pilot in November and
December for -- to continue 45 hours of having our City Hall and city facilities open, but
to have a Monday through Thursday 8:00 to 6:00 and a Friday 9:00 to 1:00 or 8:00 to
1:00. Council, since we talked about this last week I did attend Mayor's forum last
Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday and this was an -- actually an item of discussion. Of
the cities that participated around 35 percent of them have altered their business hours
for their citizens to try and do two things. One, to offer more convenient hours after a
typical work week, so residents on their way home can do their business on their way
home, instead of during their work hour, and the second area was similar to the
discussions that we have had in terms of trying to offer citizens -- or our employees more
flexibility in their work schedules. So, I will ask if there is any questions from Council at
this time and, then, I will ask Mr. Clerk if there is anyone signed up. Okay. Mr. Clerk, is
there anyone signed up to testify?
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Johnson: Madam Mayor, there is one person signed in, Mr. Terry Tate.
De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Tate. Okay. This is a public hearing and we have done a poll on
NextDoor. We have asked via our social media on trying to get public comment on what
they think of new hours of operation. We have gotten a number of -- of comments and
feedback, but is there anyone here who would like to offer comments? Okay. Well,
Council.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: With the opportunities for public comment having been made over multiple
hearings, receiving that, I move we close the public hearing on Item 9-C.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the public comment period. All those
in favor say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: To move it along, I think we had talked about this last week. We were short a
couple Council Members. So, just time to gauge desire to move or not on this thing. I
had expressed my support of it, not because I know it's going to work, but because I
appreciate the intent behind it and I think we might learn a lot of positives from what does
work and I think, quite frankly, the extended hours to 6:00 is one thing we are going to try
and incorporate, but the fact that Madam Mayor has expressed just a two month pilot, we
are going to gather data, take the compliments, take the complaints and see what, if
anything, should survive going forward as an innovative way to try and do something
better. So, it's worth giving it a go, at least from my perspective.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other comments? Yes, Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Appreciate the comments, Council Member Borton. I got to watch the last
couple weeks public hearings on this topic. Appreciate the comments. I still believe this
is -- these are two separate issues and I commend, again, the Mayor for trying to think
outside of the box to serve our employees and find new ways to meet their life, as well as
also serving the citizens of Meridian. Although I still have not changed my opinion that I
think closing business early on Fridays is good for our community, I think it flies in the
face of expectations of our public that we are here to serve them and I think that a lot of
people aren't reaching out on this, because they haven't been impacted by it and
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inevitably when somebody shows up at 2:15 on a Friday and they can't access the
services of City Hall that they pay for, that's when they are going to be frustrated. I also
think that we talked a lot about customer service and the Meridian Way and, personally, I
think that this is contrary to what we do day in and day out to serve our citizens. So, I'm
not supportive of closing shop early on -- on Fridays. I'm happy to work with the Mayor
and our employees to find ways to stay open late until 6:00 o'clock, Monday through
Thursday. I think that's a really really great idea, but not at the expense of closing early
on Fridays.
De Weerd: I think the beauty about this is that it's a pilot program and if someone shows
up at 2:00 o'clock on Friday and sees that they had an opportunity to do their business
during another time that is actually more convenient, they will adapt. The cities that -- in
fact, one of the presenting cities, Westminster, Colorado, they moved to four tens, so they
were closed on Friday, and they did not have negative feedback from the community and
what they did see is employee retention, which was at six percent change to three percent
and -- and so I think it's working with the community to see how it works and -- and, then,
bringing back the data afterwards and saying, well, you know, we -- we gave it a try and
it either worked or it didn't. But, then, at least you know why it did or didn't, so --
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: I appreciate the dialogue in regard to our citizens and if they -- and their support
-- level of support in regard to this possible change. I have been contacted by some --
some staff here at City Hall, one in particular that was sort of confused in regard to the
hours and the days and such and suggested that we send out a Survey Monkey e-mail
to the -- to the -- to the city staff, so they can -- so, they can offer up their opinion as well.
So, I think I mentioned -- I don't remember. We have talked about this two or three times
and I don't remember, but in the past I felt like it was important to not only reach out to
the citizens, but also to reach out to our city staff, because they will be impacted by this
decision as well. So, I would be in favor of reaching out to city staff before we make this
decision. And another concern that I have is in regard to a pilot program that involves the
entire city and I know that we spoke about this last week. I wish that we could find a way
in which we could do a pilot program that involves maybe like a department or two before
we totally change the hours of City Hall. I just think that -- I guess I'm not totally against
it, I just -- I just can't wrap my arms around why we can't just start it out at -- you know,
with one or two departments just to see how it goes. Those are my thoughts.
De Weerd: Well -- and, Mr. Bernt, I -- I know you have mentioned the survey in the past
and I meant to chat with you yesterday after the candidate forum, but our -- our
departments have been talking to their staff members all summer. We have been
discussing this at the senior leadership level and the directors have gone back to their
teams and talked about it and certainly -- I don't know if the -- the ones that have reached
out were on vacation or -- or why they weren't part of that discussion, but I think there is
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a willingness from our -- our departments and our staff and an eagerness to -- to see how
this works and -- and -- and unless you give it a try you will never know.
Bernt: Point taken.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor, given the fact that we have got early voting happening now
it made me wonder what would happen to events that are currently scheduled for like a
Friday afternoon?
De Weerd: Early voting actually had Saturday hours in the past and they have opened
City Hall and they have -- we haven't staffed it. They staff the early voting.
Little Roberts: Follow up?
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Little Roberts: But we do have staff to be in the building to have the building open?
De Weerd: They -- they open the building. They do work with the clerk's office, get the
key or -- or whatever it is and they can open up City Hall.
Little Roberts: Thank you.
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam, did you have a question?
Milam: I did.
Bernt: Did you forget it?
Milam: I'm getting old. I don't remember all of it, but I -- I like the idea, because it's a pilot
program and the only way you're going to know if it's going to work is to try it. I would be
more comfortable if there were a way for people to get in touch with somebody, at least
in the beginning, maybe the first couple weeks. A phone number posted on the door for
emergencies or for extremely important or somewhere to leave a note, so that we know
that we are aware of how many people are coming by an unexpectedly finding City Hall
closed and put off by it, enough to either leave a note or make a phone call. Otherwise,
we don't know the answer to that question either. People might come and they might get
frustrated and leave. They might say, oh, it's no big deal, I can wait until Monday. But I
think that would be an important piece of data to try to catch. Okay. Well, we will put
Luke's number on the door.
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De Weerd: They can call me. I will probably still be here, so we can figure something out
in that regard.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Maybe I missed it. Did -- we are talking about what the -- the benefit would be
and I guess maybe I have missed it. What is the benefit to our building being closed in
the afternoons on Fridays? How does that benefit our citizens?
De Weerd: What we are doing is trying not to change the number of hours that City Hall
is open. It's open currently 45 hours. So, we are taking the five hours -- or the four hours
and -- that we are closed on Friday and we are extending the hours to 6:00 o'clock,
Monday through Thursday. Okay.
Bernt: Madam Mayor, if I can answer that question, too. I feel like also -- I come from a
private sector or -- or business perspective I think that when you have happier, more
effective employees, I feel like maybe they will be happier therefore work harder -- not
that our city staff doesn't work hard, I don't want to give that impression at all, but like
maybe generally just have a more general good -- you know, better attitude -- how do I
say this? I don't want to make it sound like I'm saying that our city staff isn't -- but you get
it. So --
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
Bernt: -- do you get it -- by going forward they might be --
De Weerd: I think what the other cities have found that have modified their -- their city
hall hours have found that there is greater flexibility in work schedules for all departments,
including the small departments that don't have that flexibility to have front desk covered
and that sort of thing and because of that and because of the -- the younger work force
that would like to see -- don't have an opposition to ten hour days and three hour -- or
three day weekends, it gives them greater flexibility for their work life balance.
Bernt: Good point.
De Weerd: Okay. So, what do you want to do?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I will make a motion just to get this moving. I move we approve Item 9-C, a
modified pilot project, hours for City Hall as presented.
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Little Roberts: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve the pilot project. Any discussion?
Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll call: Borton, nay; Milam, yea; Cavener, nay; Palmer, nay; Little Roberts, yea; Bernt,
nay.
Borton: No. And I will tell you why, Madam Mayor, if I can. If we don't have much
unanimity amongst the Council for this -- a pilot like this needs our support to take the risk
and gather the data and learn from it and if we are divided on it then -- I think we all need
to be in the same boat to proceed on something like that, understanding that the project
would have complaints, it would have -- it certainly is going to have some folks upset as
we learn what works and doesn't work and I think in that context to have us that divided
on the issue is not healthy. So, that's the reason I'm voting no.
De Weerd: Okay.
MOTION FAILED: TWO AYES. FOUR NAYS.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I don't know where this is going to go, but I move that we deny Item 9-C -- or
is it just --
De Weerd: You don't have to --
Cavener: Madam Mayor, a comment. I would hope that we can take this as an
opportunity to take Council Member Bernt's suggestion. Let's -- let's poll our employees,
let's send them a Survey Monkey. If the data that comes back from our employees
matches what you are hearing from your leadership team, that's very compelling and
that's something that I would like to hear. On top of that I reiterate my commitment to you
to be willing to work with you and your team to see if we can be creative in terms of
schedules for employees, so that they can get some of these benefits that I'm hearing are
so important to them. I think this Council has always been committed to our employees
and if this is a concern you're hearing from them, I want to work on that. I just don't want
to address it at the expense of our citizens.
De Weerd: And we didn't think of it in terms of at the expense of our citizens, we saw it
as -- to benefit our citizens, those that came in during their lunch hour, they didn't have
another option and that is the feedback that we got. But, certainly, I would agree with Mr.
Borton. You know, it doesn't make sense moving forward with something that the Council
can't agree on.
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D. Public Hearing for Ordinance 19-1857: An Ordinance Prohibiting
the Use of Handheld Wireless Devices While Operating a Vehicle
Upon a Street or Highway Within the City of Meridian
De Weerd: So, moving forward Item 9-D is a public hearing for Ordinance 19-1857 and
this has been continued. I will see if our chief has any -- I know you have been up in front
of Council on this item a number of times. Do you have additional information or
comment?
Lavey: Madam Mayor, Council, I don't think you need to hear additional from me. I think
it's been brought forward. I know a few of you have asked for some additional information
that I have supplied and I wasn't going to speak tonight. I would just request that we close
the public hearing and take action on it. But I do have a couple of words to -- to share.
Tonight three of you have an opportunity to find your legacy as it concerns public safety.
You have an opportunity to find that in a positive manner. I urge your support. I look
forward to your vote and I thank you for the attention that you have given me over the last
five weeks. Thank you.
De Weerd: Any questions for the chief?
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Madam Mayor, one item before you open up for the public's comment. If you will
notice on the -- on the ordinance that is in your packet, there is an effective date that is
left blank. That was intentional and I think I just notified you of that earlier, that if your
desire is to move this forward, I would like you to select a date of effectiveness. The chief
had mentioned we wanted some opportunity for educating the public, if that's your desire
to move this forward. So, I wouldn't suggest approving this ordinance tonight, but if you
want to move it forward, to pick an effective date, set that for the first reading, give that
one more opportunity for the public to at least be aware of it before you approve it. So,
that was my only suggestion on the effective date, just because it is blank, because that
was the chief's direction was to give some time, whatever that may be, to make sure there
was some public opportunity to notice people that this was occurring.
De Weerd: Thank you. Mr. Clerk.
Johnson: Madam Mayor, there are no sign-ins on this topic.
De Weerd: Okay. This agenda item is an ordinance that would prohibit the use of
handheld devices. It -- while operating a moving vehicle or a vehicle and I would ask if
there is any testimony from those in the audience.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
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De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: To Mr. Nary's comment, are you -- are you telling us that we are prohibited from
acting, even if we included an effective date, or you just recommend we don't?
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Borton, you are not
prohibited from acting. Since you hadn't noticed anyone as to when this would become
effective, my suggestion was that you -- if that's your desired to move forward tonight,
make tonight the first reading, have it one more reading at least for next week, so that
there is at least some public awareness of this being enacted and when it would be, but
it's not required. By statute you can approve it tonight with an effective date if it is going
to be 30, 60, 90 -- whatever days you choose, that's certainly the opportunity to notify
people as well. So, you can move forward if you wish.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I have a question for Bill as well. I know we went to a couple different versions of
these and I'm not -- I'm not able to open up my screen right now, so does this -- the current
version we are proposing does it include while you are stopped at a red light or is it just
while the vehicle is in motion?
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Milam, this ordinance as
it's currently drafted prohibits the use of these devices anytime the car is in the lane of
traffic.
Milam: Okay.
Nary: So, it is whether stopped at a light or moving, it cannot be -- you cannot use a
handheld device. You have to be parked and off the roadway.
De Weerd: And I think the reasoning behind that -- and the chief has spoken to this -- is
a lot of our accidents, because of distracted driving, have been while a vehicle has been
stopped and rear ended because someone in front of them wasn't paying attention to the
light turning green.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: The chief said the reason for a lot of road rage and I have to say -- I'm going to
stand firm that it prevents way more road rage than it causes. So, if you are stuck sitting
in a traffic light for 15 minutes, ten minutes -- I don't know. Sometimes on Eagle Road
that happens and it allows you to -- to move your mind from that and do something that
you would need to do, that you need to or need to check or people work in their cars and
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they -- they can't be pulling over every ten minutes, it gives an opportunity -- and, yes,
there are some morons that are going to be morons and do stupid things all the time and
don't pay attention, but I -- I think -- and the people I have talked to it helps more than it
causes problems, so --
De Weerd: I don't know. Most people I know that get behind a wheel are supposed to
drive and -- anyway. Any other comments? Mr. Clerk, anyone signed up?
Johnson: Madam Mayor, no one has signed up.
De Weerd: Oh, I think I have already asked that. Really? No one signed up? And are
you sure no one wants to provide any comment? Okay. Council, this is now yours. Chief,
did you want to -- to have any further comment to --
Lavey: Madam Mayor, Council, Councilman Milam and I had a discussion yesterday and
we just have to agree to disagree and I respect her vote of no. It was interesting, I heard
a council candidate last night tell a story about road rage in regards to someone not
getting off the phone when he was sitting behind -- oh, I gave it away kind of -- when he
was sitting behind them at a light, so I disagree. We are getting road rages three to five
times a week in regards to people not paying attention on the roads. But we can
respectfully disagree. I think it's time for us to make a decision, either yea or nay, and we
need to move on. We have had I think five or six weeks now. We have had four public
opportunities for people to provide their testimony. I think it's just time to make a decision.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor. Chief, what would be an appropriate time for beginning
the ordinance? Would January 1 be too soon, just right?
Lavey: Madam Mayor, Councilman Little Roberts, as I testified in the past -- and one of
the versions of the ordinance said that it would become effective as soon as it was posted
-- it was posted. I think we need to make it effective as soon as we possibly can, so we
can start the educational process. That means that you would get pulled over, you just
wouldn't get a ticket. So, we are proposing that we not start writing tickets until after
January 1, but if we don't enforce this ordinance or put it in effect, we can't even stop cars
until after that occurs. So, I wouldn't want to delay that part of it.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions for the chief while we have him up here?
Lavey: I can walk back. I'm not --
De Weerd: We appreciate that you have been spending your evening with us and I
understand last week you even gave up your son's soccer game.
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Lavey: It was a -- it was a district soccer game. They are going to state. I did miss that.
It was a little frustrating. But I'd like to say I'm over it. I'm not quite over it. And I wasn't
going to come tonight, but I have too much invested in this and I'm looking forward to a
positive outcome.
De Weerd: Thank you, chief.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Just one more point from what the chief said. The effective date can be immediate,
but understand it takes about 30 days, approximately -- between 15 -- 14 and 30 days to
get it through the system --
Lavey: Yes.
Nary: -- being able to be -- a ticket to be written for them to actually stop anybody anyway.
But, I agree, we can make it effective as soon as possible, but the process still takes a bit
to get it through the Supreme Court and on the schedule and in the system for tickets and
all that. So, it will take a little time for that anyway.
Lavey: Madam Mayor. He is correct in what he is referring to. We do e-ticketing and
everything is electronically and so it will take a while to update the software and stuff. But
we can't do that until after the ordinance goes in effect.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Mr. Nary, is action taken at this stage of the public hearing potentially, one way
or the other, or do we need to wait until the ordinance itself comes up on the agenda later
on?
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Borton, I would suggest
waiting until the ordinance comes up, because you would actually have a reading at that
point, then, and, then, you -- but you can certainly put the direction -- if you want the
direction that -- our normal standard for ordinances is the language is that it's effective as
soon as it's published and it takes about ten days to get published. I can make that
change while we are here and we have it ready by the time you get to the ordinance, if
that's your desire.
De Weerd: Thank you, chief.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
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De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I move we close the public hearing on 9-D.
Cavener: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing on 9-D. All those in
favor say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
E. Public Hearing for Ordinance 19-1855: An Ordinance Prohibiting
Use of Compression Brakes Within the City of Meridian
De Weerd: Okay. Item 9-E is a public hearing on Ordinance 19-1855. This is an
ordinance prohibiting the use of compression brakes within the City of Meridian and we
did have conversations. We continued the -- the item over to this to ask for additional
public comment. Mr. Clerk.
Johnson: Madam Mayor, my office received no public comment via e-mail or phone, but
you do have Bob and Louise Jones signed in this evening wishing to testify.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Welcome back. We are glad you came back.
Jones: Madam Mayor and the City Members, we are glad to be received back. Thank
you, Mayor, very much.
B.Jones: I just want to say --
De Weerd: If you can --
B.Jones: -- Bob and Louise Jones.
De Weerd: Yes.
B.Jones: And we reside at 3483 West Sand Wedge Street in Meridian. That's in Spurwing
Greens Subdivision, which backs right up to Chinden, Highway 20-26 and Ten Mile.
De Weerd: Thank you.
B.Jones: Last week there was a question brought up about what the objective was of this
ordinance and I don't think it ever got answered, but -- so, I just want to say that the
objective is to improve the quality of life of those of us who are affected by the use of
compression brakes. It's that simple as far as I'm concerned.
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Jones: So, to build on that, we live about one hundred yards from the intersection of Ten
Mile and Chinden. That's a state highway and it's a road corridor from the interstate down
Ten Mile. So, we get a lot of traffic from trucks, as well as other vehicles, of course. Going
back and just really looking at what we are really talking about, I noticed that trucks that
slow down before they get to an intersection that has a signal light often don't use their
compression brakes. It's those that are barreling down the highway or Ten Mile trying to
get to the -- the light, it looks like to me, so they can get through it and they, of course,
are going to use their engine brakes. I -- you know, it's a 55 mile zone on Chinden. I'm
not sure what it is on the Ten Mile. But I estimate about three trucks an hour use their
compression brakes. Now, our back yard is right there close to the intersection, so it's --
it bothers us a great deal. So, that's a personal thing. But I have driven down some of
these other corridors. It's not unusual for these residences to be close to a signal light
that's going down Ten Mile, Chinden, and so forth and other places. Ustick and so forth.
I'm just thinking that if we had a few signs entering into Meridian on our corridor it would
be probably Black Cat and Locust Grove, east and west, and maybe coming down Ten
Mile off the interstate. That would take a great deal of burden off of us. I think signs act
as a deterrent. We can't expect an officer to be there to stop a person who -- a trucker
that's using compression brakes, unless they just happened to be there. That's true of
any traffic infractions. I heard last week that maybe the emergency vehicles ought to
adhere the same. I'm not -- I'm not concerned about that. We get emergency vehicles
that go down by us, but it's -- they are not the big problem. The big problem are all the
truckers that are coming by and --
De Weerd: Ma'am, if I can ask you to summarize.
Jones: Yes. Thank you. And I think I just finished it up. So, whatever questions you
have of us.
De Weerd: It was timely; right? Council, any questions?
Bernt: No questions.
De Weerd: Thank you for joining us again.
Jones: All right. Thank you.
De Weerd: Appreciate that. Any further testimony on this item?
Lavey: Madam Mayor, Council, since I testified on it last night and I'm here, I may as well
testify again. The police department does not object to this ordinance. It will provide
consistency amongst the -- the other cities in the county. The one thing that you will have
to determine is which department is going to be responsible for the signs and who is going
to pay for those signs, because those will -- will cost the city and, then, the location of
those signs. Other than that we are in full support of -- of this ordinance and I will stand
for any questions.
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De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. And I think it was stated last week that ITD has offered
the signs and to install them.
Lavey: That would be great if they did. I know that ACHD, which would be Ten Mile, will
actually make the signs -- invoices for those signs, but they do install them for free. So,
there might be different protocols for each. I know we have had some signs put up in the
past and there is -- they are about 40 dollars a sign.
De Weerd: Thank you, chief. Council, any further information needed on this? Okay.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Move we close the public hearing on item -- Item 9-E.
Cavener: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing on 9-E. All
those in favor say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Borton: I apologize to interrupt, but if I may, for scheduling to make sure we have got a
full Council with -- with some time constraints, in light of the hour, I would ask that we do
an amendment of the agenda and move 10-A and 10-B to the new 9-E1 and E2. So, the
ordinances that we just both heard and have been discussing for -- for several hearings,
we can take some action on while we are all present. Potentially take action on at least.
De Weerd: Okay.
Cavener: Second. If we need a second. It's just a request I think.
De Weerd: Yeah. Okay. There is a motion and a second to move Items 10-A and B to
this point on our agenda. All those in favor say aye. Any opposed? Okay.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 10: Ordinances
A. Ordinance 19-1855: An Ordinance Prohibiting Use of
Compression Brakes Within the City of Meridian
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De Weerd: Okay. So, that brings us to Ordinance 19-1855 under 10-A. Mr. Clerk, will
you, please, read this by title.
Johnson: Thank you, Madam Mayor. This is the 19-1855 is what I heard? Okay. So, an
ordinance prohibiting use of compression brakes within the City of Meridian.
De Weerd: That was a short title. Is there anyone who would like to hear it read in its
entirety? I don't see any. Council.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: This is -- what are we doing? Are we -- are we approving it or are we --
De Weerd: If you wish to approve it or not.
Milam: With -- we are not doing a suspension of rules, we are doing a first reading -- the
three readings?
De Weerd: That would be up to whoever makes the motion.
Milam: Okay. Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I move that we approve Ordinance No. 19-1855.
Cavener: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to approve Ordinance 19-1855. Any
discussion?
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: As I said last week on this issue, I -- I can't support it so long as we are exempting
ourselves.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other discussion?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
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Cavener: For the benefit of the public, appreciate -- I watched the public hearings on this
while I was absent. I have struggled with this one. You don't think the compression
brakes would be a humdinger, but this one has been for me. I value the -- the feedback
of our transportation commission, but I have been unable to find what potential harm we
create for our community by enacting this. I recognize the immense challenge we place
on law enforcement to enforce something like this, so I am a firm believer that the majority
of the people will do the right thing the majority of the time. The signs can help with
education and if that can make an impact for -- for some members of our community's
lives I'm supportive. So, appreciate the motion. Appreciate the second. I will be
supporting it.
De Weerd: Okay. Any further discussion? Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, nay; Little Roberts, yea; Bernt,
yea.
De Weerd: The ayes have it. Thank you.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE NAY.
B. Ordinance 19-1857: An Ordinance Prohibiting the Use of
Handheld Wireless Devices While Operating a Vehicle Upon a
Street or Highway Within the City of Meridian
De Weerd: Then Ordinance 19-1857. Mr. Clerk, will you, please, read this by title.
Johnson: Thank you, Madam Mayor. An ordinance prohibiting the use of handheld
wireless devices while operating a vehicle upon a street or highway within the City of
Meridian.
De Weerd: You have heard this ordinance read by title. Is there anyone who wishes to
hear it read in its entirety? Okay.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Madam Mayor. I have provided Mr. Johnson with the language for the effective
date that it would be effective on passage and publication, which is our normal standard
if that's your desire. If you would include that in the motion. If you want a specific date
instead, just include that in the motion. So, he has the language for either option.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Nary. Council?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
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De Weerd: Mr. Borton. Did Mr. Nary say something?
Borton: Speaking over each other.
De Weerd: Okay.
Borton: Madam Mayor. I will make a motion to get the discussion going. Perhaps. I
move we approve Ordinance 19-1857, prohibiting the use of handheld wireless devices,
with an effective date on passage and publication as referenced by legal counsel.
Little Roberts: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second. Do I have discussion?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: We have had multiple opportunities to discuss this important issue and we have
been able to gather important data from law enforcement and an opportunity from our
community and, quite frankly, a chance to discuss it amongst us as we have gone through
this process. It is not a motion that I take lightly in supporting, but it is one that -- that my
enthusiasm for what this provides our community has been strengthened by the input we
have gotten from the public around the community. I think about this kind of ordinance
and what it can provide and we talked at one of the earlier hearings about trade-offs and
one of the trade-offs that is important to me is the liberty of operating a vehicle is really
important, but when you do that on the public streets, with all of our families and co-
workers and friends on the sidewalks and in the streets with us, you do so with some
heightened responsibility. We heard certain data from our law enforcement community,
who is on the street daily dealing with the accidents, dealing with the conduct that is
created by cell phone usage. Oftentimes with good intentions, but it absolutely leads to
traffic accidents. It leads to fatalities and our police and fire cut children and adults out of
cars, because people use cell phones when they drive. So, when we talk about the
effective date of this ordinance and I think about the holidays coming up and I think about
difficult driving conditions and I think about the cost to our community of waiting another
day to have this opportunity for public safety presented to our community, the public
hearing time has run its course and the time to act is now. I think the life that we save in
December and January we will never see, they will never come here and talk to us. They
will go home to their families and to their jobs. But I'm confident that will happen and to
have a little piece of responsibility to make that possible for that person who gets to go
home, I'm all in and if Meridian can lead the way in the Treasure Valley to do what's right,
I'm all in as well. So, that's the reason why I have been supportive of this process, have
been appreciative of all of the public input in the grocery store and school grounds and
work settings and most importantly for Chief Lavey, to you and to your entire department
and to our entire fire department, which deals with this daily, it makes our community one
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of the safest places in the state, if not the west. Thank you for your efforts to make this a
possibility.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: I think that in my opinion Mr. Borton said it perfectly and I won't go into as much
detail as he did, but I wanted to also thank Chief Lavey and his team for putting this
together. This has been a tough one as well. You know, there is a debate between, you
know, government overreach versus public safety and after thinking about it and after
staying up at night a couple times, bugging my wife with different type of questions in
regard to this issue, I have come to the conclusion that -- that at the end of the day we
should not be using cell phones while driving and it is -- it's an addiction that is real and
-- and in some cases cannot be controlled. I have sat at intersections multiple times and
looked around and -- and in some cases -- not all cases, but in some cases I have seen
the entire -- every vehicle at an inter -- at an intersection on their cell phones and it's a
real problem. The only way that we can fix it is by -- by taking action this evening. So, I
-- I look forward to being the leader in the Treasure Valley in regard to this -- this ordinance
and I call on our fellow municipalities that are nearby to -- to have this type of dialogue
within their settings as well and I will be voting yes this evening on this ordinance.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: It's been a really good discussion. Both sides and from the public. I echo some
of my colleagues' comments. Anytime law enforcement brings us an issue I think it
deserves the time and attention and strong consideration. I think we have seen that here
tonight. I think when this was first brought up Council Member Borton says there is no
argument that distracted driving is a problem and I really think that for many of us the --
the wrestling has been with the consequence. While I'm not satisfied that the
consequence is harsh enough, it does seem at least a step in the right direction. For
Council's benefit, you guys know -- in my day job I get in front of mayors and city council
members, legislative members across the state, across the nation, talking about
encouraging them to make strong policy decisions around public safety and a big chunk
of my work is not just bringing a good idea, but bringing a scientifically validated idea. If
you do X Y occurs and the piece about operating motor vehicles while using your phone,
the data is clean. The piece that I am wrestling with, the piece that I'm not supportive of,
I'm hoping maybe for a substitute motion, although I know we frown on those, is this
prohibition of using your device when the vehicle is not in motion. I appreciate the chief
sent me two multi-hundred page reports from the state of Oregon. I only was able to get
through about half of one and, then, again, the data is clear. Again, if my focus is here,
it's not focused here. But I also know that if I'm trying to get where I'm going, if I'm stopped
at a light using a map, type in an address. I'm not creating a public safety danger that I
am when I am operating a motor vehicle and so because there isn't that scientific data to
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justify that piece, I'm opposed to that particular element. I think it's worth asking the
highway district or the state to conduct a study to see if we can find some data behind
that and if that is justified, then, I'm incredibly supportive. But I have to echo Council
Member Milam's comments with -- with that particular piece I can't be supportive of the
ordinance. So, if that's the words going forth, I will be voting in opposition to it and wanted
to at least have my explanation on the record. Again, appreciate the work, chief. I know
this has been a marathon and, quite frankly, you are the most suited one to run
marathons, not -- not me, so I appreciate your endurance on this. I just think that we need
to have better data before we kind of ready fire aim on the -- on the -- while a vehicle is
not in motion element.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor, I also echo the sentiments of Councilman Borton. I think
that it is time that we get this done. I was on the fence about whether we should be able
to use them when we are not moving and I being one that has a tendency to do something
at a stoplight really quickly, a call or something, and this morning as I was not on my
phone I had the privilege or the opportunity to see the person on my left and on my right
both on their phones, all of us stopped at a red light. Well, when the gentleman to -- when
the light turned for the turn on my left, he chose to remain on his phone or be oblivious to
his light, saw it was yellow and proceeded to go through a red light, so that he could make
sure he still got where he was going and had missed his green arrow. The person to my
right, then, sat there long enough that when the lights turned green had to be honked at
before they got off their phone and got moving. So, this morning my personal experience
cleared that up for me and I'm off the fence and prepared to move forward.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: To Councilman Cavener's comment on the -- I get it. I do. I think tie goes to
keeping it as it is. I think the complete ban is what's appropriate. Folks aren't challenged
with trying to toggle back and forth. Law enforcement isn't challenge just trying to
articulate whether or not the usage started and stopped when they were stopped. I think
we are going to error on the side of being more safe and I think we are going to change
some usage patterns and the benefits outweigh the costs to keep it as is.
De Weerd: If there is no further discussion, Mr. Clerk.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, nay; Cavener, nay; Palmer, nay; Little Roberts, yea; Bernt,
yea.
De Weerd: And I will break the tie for an aye. I think that this is not a -- this is public
safety issue and it's something that our youth council has been passionate about and
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when they brought the texting while driving law to the legislature and came back to the
City Council after the legislature did not act, they asked this Council to -- to stand up for
the right thing to -- to do and this Council -- well, not this Council, the Council at the time
said I think it's worth implementing. It's an issue in our community and we helped work
out some of the concerns that was behind a successful texting while driving. The chief
has always said we never went far enough, but he also recognized that it was one step
at a time. It's time and -- because we continue to see that the -- the burden of proof on
-- on our police -- are they texting, are they looking at GPS, are they looking up a phone
number -- it shouldn't matter. It shouldn't be in their hands. So, I appreciate our police
officers. I do -- I do appreciate, chief, the leadership you have had on this and I do know
to Mr. Bernt's comments, the other cities are watching. They do want a copy of this and
I think there -- there is some frustration out there from the people I have talked to and that
was reflected in our poll, that now is the right time. So, thank you, chief, for being with
us.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. THREE NAYS. MAYOR AYE.
Item 9: Action Items
F. Public Hearing for Ten Mile Plaza (H-2019-0102) by
HustonBugatsch Architects, Located at 3110 W. Quintale Drive.
1. Request: Modified Development Agreement for the purpose
of removing the subject property from DA Instrument
#101117652 and be placed in a new, separate agreement
De Weerd: Okay. Item 10-F is a public hearing for H-2019-0102. I will open this -- how
many of you have not been at a public hearing before? Okay. I'm just going to briefly go
over kind of our process. First we open up with staff comments. They introduce the
application and, then, we ask the applicant if they have additional information. They have
up to 15 minutes to present the application. After they have presented we will ask our
public if there is public comments and you have three minutes for your testimony. There
is a time indicator on the screen at the podium to let you know where you are at in your
time allocation. After everyone has provided their public testimony we will ask the
applicant to come up and have any final remarks, but if there were any questions raised
during the public testimony that would be when they answer those questions. The Council
has an opportunity to ask questions throughout the process and certainly I would remind
you that there is public testimony and public record that this Council has had an
opportunity to review and it is part of the decisions that they make. So, with that I will turn
this over to Bill for staff remarks.
Parsons: Thank you, Mayor, Members of the Council. I just wanted to let Council and
Mayor know that that Item 9-F is -- actually has to be continued this evening, because
there was an error with the neighborhood's applicant -- the error -- did not conduct a
proper neighborhood meeting and they were required to continue that in order to complete
that process, so that we can move forward on their application. So, again, we can't hear
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this one this evening. There is a procedural issue with it. So, I would ask that Council
just continue 9-F until the November 6th hearing, please.
De Weerd: Okay. Council?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Madam Mayor, I move that we continue Item 9-F to November 6th, 2019.
Borton: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to continue 9-F to November 6th. All those in
favor say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
G. Public Hearing Continued from October 15, 2019 for Victory
Commons MDA (H-2019-0091) by BVA Development, LLC.
Located at 130 E . Victory Rd. and 3030 S. Meridian Rd.
1. Request: Modified Development Agreement for the purpose
of removing the subject property from DA Instrument #
106155843 and to be placed into a new, separate
development agreement.
De Weerd: Item 9-G is a public hearing continued from October 15th for H-2019-0091. I
will turn this over to staff at this time.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: I'm sorry. Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: If we can before we turn it over to staff, I just want to be consistent. I -- I
mentioned through other public hearings that I have -- I have watched the item online.
With this item as well I watched -- I watched it live online from my hotel room. I have had
the opportunity to review all the public record. W hile I wasn't here for this last week, I -- I
am prepared and ready to vote to the decision before the Council here tonight. Just
wanted it to be on the record before we began with staff comments.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Parsons: Thank you, Mayor, Members of the Council. I, too, also had a chance to read
through the record just to get myself up to speed on this, as I wasn't present at the last
hearing and our -- one of our team members has left the city, so I'm picking up the pieces
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and making sure -- taking this project to the end for him. But in looking at the public
record it was clear that Council specifically continued this for one item and that was to
address the height of the structures. You gave the applicant the opportunity to go back,
work with their client and come back with you to share with you what they would be
comfortable with adding as a provision to the development agreement. I would also
mention to Council that there are a couple outstanding issues that we also need to take
under consideration as you hear the height component as well. One of those was there
was some discussion around keeping the pond and including that as an amenity. If you
recall, the applicant had asked to replace the concept plan, removing the pond element
from that, the process -- the project. I believe Councilman Borton wanted to keep that in
as an amenity, so it gives this project a sense of identity on that particular -- in this
development. And the other issue was the applicant was going to connect with the micro
path that was constructed with the Bitter -- I think it was the Bitterbrush Point Subdivision
and tie into the pathway system along Meridian Road. So, those are the items that I recall
coming up. So, in looking at some of the DA provisions that were before you this evening,
Item 10 -- Provision No. 10 and No. 11 address keeping the pond as an amenity. Again,
we will see what the applicant wants to do with that particular -- particular item. And, then,
if Council wants to add a provision to the DA to limit the height within the development,
then, certainly we would ask that you stick to the height in feet and not the number of
stories, please. And with that I will stand for any questions.
De Weerd: Council, any questions for Bill at this time? Okay. Would the applicant like
to comment.
Wardle: Madam Mayor, Council Members, Geoff Wardle. I am counsel for the applicant.
My address is 251 East Front, Boise. Suite 300 -- 310, actually. I, too, was not here last
week and I, too, have reviewed the video and I think we can address this relatively quickly.
We provided supplemental information and as I have had further discussions with your
staff and with my client, I think we can get to where Council Member Borton was guiding
us last week, but, first, let's just remember about this site. In 2002 in your comp plan you
designated this location for commercial development. The property was annexed in 2003.
Development agreement confirming the C-G, most intensive commercial zone, was
adopted in 2004 with the site plan that contemplated kind of a western theme. We fast
forward now 15 years and in the interim there was an amendment to the -- to the
development agreement in 2006 that modified some of the uses, but every use within the
C-G zone was permitted and the issue was one of design, that if you didn't stick with the
cowboy theme we had to come back with a conditional use permit. So, recognizing --
recognizing code changes, other concerns, design preferences and the fact that our client
has a different vision for it, we have come forward with this. So, of issues that came up
last week, flex space is an absolutely permitted use under the C-G zone and under the
existing development agreement. Your maximum height in the C-G zone is 65 feet. We
don't need 65 feet and we are not going to ask for 65 feet, but recognize that this is a
concession the applicant is willing to make, a condition with respect to height. Now, the
basis for the amendment to this development agreement is the fact that we are here to
modify the site plan and we are here to modify the site plan to address a couple things.
The first and most important is the change in access and the discussion that's been had
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with respect to ITD's approval of a right-in, right-out being relocated farther to the south
and getting rid of the existing temporary accesses to the north. Eliminate the western
theme design. Eliminate the building size provisions. And to modify the site plan. Now,
the third issue, as I understand it from the direction that was given by Council last week,
is really the issue of height. We are amenable to a reasonable height limit, but I was
concerned by some of the discussion late in the hearing last week about what constitutes
a reasonable height limit and I don't want to be too technocratic, but I think Mr. Nary hit it
right on the head. We are comfortable with your ordinance, but when we talk about height
we have to be absolutely clear, because we don't want to be back here with you guys on
another DA modification because of an issue of six inches above grade plane being off.
So, what is appropriate? Well, as has been presented, part of the focus here is for a
mixture of office, retail, medical, flex space, reconfigured in the site and we -- there was
some confusion last week about what the actual elevations are, so we made a
supplemental submittal late last week and when we talked about height, height is
measured not necessarily to the parapet, not necessarily to the highest elevation, it can
be an average, it can be a variety of things. So, to be absolutely clear, the highest parapet
on this building is, in fact, 28 feet three inches. The actual roof deck is 21 feet eight inches
at the highest and 18 feet at the lowest. So, when we look at this you see that, you know,
you have a parapet on the south facade that exceeds the height of the roof by
approximately seven feet to provide screening back to the public street and I recognize
there was some concern about screening and we will get to that as well, although I believe
that your UDC adequately addresses that issue. So, there you have a rear look and you
see that the height of the highest elevation of the roof, again, on the flat portion is 21 feet
eight inches, but the parapet exceeds that. So, we proposed a supplemental condition,
It's Condition 5.1, adding 14 and 15, and 14 being that no building on the property shall
have a maximum building height that exceeds 40 feet measured in accordance with UDC
1-5-B1 and, 15, outdoor mechanical equipment shall be installed consistent with UDC 11-
3A-12, which is your screening requirements within your development code. In
discussing this -- and Mr. Nary, your -- your esteemed counsel, hit the nail on the head.
There is a reason that we don't talk in terms of stories. We have had lots of litigiousness
over what constitutes a story. We should talk about height, because your code specifies
that structure height shall be measured in accordance with the Meridian City building code
as set forth in Title 1, Chapter 1, of this code, which takes you to the International Building
Code and under the International Building Code building height -- height, comma,
building, is the vertical distance from grade plane to the average height of the highest roof
surface. Grade plane is a reference plane representing the average finished ground level
adjoining the building exterior walls with certain other considerations. So, our reticence
to agree to a height that is exactly equal to whatever the elevation show is multi-fold. We
proposed in our supplemental submittal a 40 foot height. We think it's reasonable in the
fact that the C-G is a 65 foot height limitation and the R-4 zoning immediately to the east
would permit a 35 foot height elevation. We also think it's flexible, because we don't need
to revisit it if there is a change in the floor plans, if there is a change in the design of the
buildings and also we think that is a condition that's consistent with the UDC, as well as
the International Building Code. Now, in visiting further with your staff and visiting further
with my client, we are prepared to agree to a 35 foot height limit in this project, which
would be identical to the residential height, the height of any house that could be built in
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the R-4 zone immediately next door. We think that's appropriate. It gives you flexibility
to put a multi-story structure there if we need to. It gives us the ability to work within that
definition of the International Building Code and your development code, because, again,
this is a development agreement application. We are really early in the process. We
haven't sought a CZC. We haven't come in with building plans. So, the final grading of
the site has yet to be established. The final configuration of some of these has yet to be
established. So, what we would propose is that no building on the property shall have a
maximum building height that exceeds 35 feet measured in accordance with UDC 11-1-
5B. With that, again, we think it's reasonable, flexible, and consistent. The property is
already zoned. I mean we could build -- we could build flex cowboy buildings if we -- if
we chose to. We are amenable to these additional conditions and we request approval
as recommended and I think as Bill outlined and in further conversation with my client, I
mean I think at this point Conditions 10 and 11 regarding the pond are fine. I mean we
can retain that for now and recognize, again, there is elements of this project that will
come in a future application and we may have to address some circulation on Victory, but
we will revisit that at that point, because Council Member Borton's comments last week
were well taken about why that was included and the micro path was designed to comply
with your codes and standards and requirements and to provide connectivity in that
neighborhood as you long envisioned. So, with that I will stand for any questions.
De Weerd: Thank you so much. Council, any questions? No? Okay.
Wardle: Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Mr. Clerk?
Johnson: Council, on your desktop is a link to the sign-in dashboard and that will show
you everyone that is signed in this evening. You will see there is six signed in. Of them
two wish to testify. One was the applicant and the only other sign-in wishing to testify is
Randy Lasher.
De Weerd: Welcome back. If you will, please, state your name and address for the
record.
Lasher: I will. Randy Lasher. Address 267 East Observation Drive, Meridian, Idaho.
83642. And good evening, Madam Mayor, Council Members. Last week was my first
time actually addressing a city council group, so probably made more than my share of
mistakes somewhere along that way. I hope I didn't personally offend anybody on the
Council. If I did please raise your hand. No? Are we good now?
Milam: I wasn't here last week.
De Weerd: She wasn't here.
Lasher: Very good. Well, I think -- I appreciate the comments from the attorney. I think
we are still wanting to know -- and that's really all this is, is just fact finding -- is what --
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what's the finished grade going to be. If a lot of dirt gets brought, the whole height issue
gets revisited. So, as much as they are willing to concede to 35 feet, we haven't talked
as a neighborhood how that would -- how that would go, but we are back to finished
grade. Where will that finished grade began and how high -- if we know 35 feet is the
number, how far down are they going in adding the soil. So, I think -- I think we need to
probably determine that somewhere along the way, because it could have a complete
different perspective on how high that building is going to sit. The other thing I would like
to say is when you buy a new home, the broker is really good at pushing disclosures in
front of you. If you are -- if you are going to buy a home in an airport traffic zone approach
they usually tell you that. If you are buying a home in a flood zone -- legally I think are
bound to tell you that. I personally, speaking for myself and my wife, would have liked to
have known through some kind of disclosure that that property behind our home had the
ability to build a 63 foot high building. I can assure you we probably wouldn't have bought
that property and I don't know how many of my neighbors would have felt the same way.
So, when the developers say 63 feet, they have the ability to go 63 feet, it sure would
have been nice to have known that when we purchased our home. That's all I have. Any
questions?
De Weerd: Council, any questions?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Borton.
Borton: I think, Randy, it's a great question. You are not probably going to get a detailed
mathematical answer on the finished grade, but it very well could be the same finished
grade at 35 feet as it would be at 65 feet. Point being that -- that this entire process has
done nothing but lower the potential mass that would have been behind your building, but
there is not -- there is not an answer that you get at this stage that would tell you that
finished grade is this particular level now as -- as their counsel described. It's just not
there yet. But the one certainty you do have, if this were to go forward, is you have
reduced -- or they have reduced by almost half what otherwise could have been put there
and that's about -- that's the only certainty that I think is available, which is a lot, but it
doesn't answer the grade question.
Lasher: Yeah. Good point. Thank you.
De Weerd: And, Mr. Lasher, I know it's -- it's probably a question that many of our
residents have. We do have a Comprehensive Plan that shows what the land uses can
be. We do have an active map on our website that -- that shows what's been approved
and what would be allowed there, but, really, real estate agents generally tell people what
will be in your backyard. I had to learn the hard way as well with what was allowed in my
backyard. Didn't know about a comprehensive plan. We have tried to make tools more
interactive, so people can use it. But your question on it would have been nice to know
what was allowed in your backyard, we have that out there, but, generally, the real estate
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agents are there to answer those questions if they are asked and they, then, know where
they can go to find out what is allowed.
Lasher: Okay. And with all due respect, Madam Mayor, having been a real estate agent,
we are not allowed to speculate, we are not allowed to disclose anything around property
that we are not a hundred percent sure was actually going to happen.
De Weerd: I -- I think the timing, though, is this was approved when that area was
developed, so you could have known.
Lasher: Well, I -- yeah.
De Weerd: I'm not going to get into a debate.
Lasher: I understand.
De Weerd: I would hope that our -- our real estate agents would -- would answer that
question as truthfully as they can and, if not, you can -- you can always call the city and
we will tell you -- maybe not what has been approved, because it may be still in the county,
but what would be allowed to be considered and where to look to see when that comes
in for approval.
Lasher: It would be a nice service if the city provided it at time of purchase that kind of
information.
De Weerd: It -- it is available through -- I believe that everything that we submit to the
county is available out there.
Lasher: Right. If we -- if we go proactively seek it out. I agree.
De Weerd: So, I guess I'm going to go down a rabbit hole. Are you asking the city at
every home closure to tell people what is allowed behind their house?
Lasher: No, Madam Mayor. What I'm --
De Weerd: All right.
Lasher: -- what I'm suggesting --
De Weerd: Because we can't.
Lasher: What I'm suggesting is anytime a homeowner -- especially someone who is new
to the community, moved in from out of state, that whatever conditions exist around a
community, whether it's flood zone or there is traffic around your home, it would also be
nice to know what does -- what the zoning and what the building height limitations are
that could affect the back of your home. That's all I'm suggesting. That's all I'm saying.
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De Weerd: Okay. And we do have all that information available. Mr. Cavener, did you
have a comment?
Cavener: Madam Mayor. Maybe a comment. Just -- Mr. Lasher, you answered I think
my question, what it is that you would be looking for and I hear exactly think what you are
saying. I appreciate the suggestion. I -- for Council, I don't know of a mechanism that
we could use to provide that, but I think I will just commit that's something I'm open to --
to looking at. I don't know how we can get that to the county or to the state to get that
provided. I do know -- and I'm sure you know this, when it comes to closure day there is
a whole lot of paperwork that gets put in front of us and I'm not quite sure if I would be
sold that every person -- that's when they would finally learn what's going to be built next
to them. I don't know what the state or county allows us to provide that, but I'm open to
at least asking the question and finding out. So, I appreciate the --
Lasher: Thank you. Appreciate it.
De Weerd: Thank you. The only one that signed up? This is a public hearing. Is there
anyone who wishes to provide testimony? Okay. Mr. Wardle, any final remarks?
Wardle: Madam Mayor, Council Members, Geoff Wardle. My address 251 East Front,
Suite 310. No further comments. I think you understand the proposed conditions that we
have laid out for you tonight. We are amenable to a 35 foot height limit and while we
understand the concern that has been articulated, I mean the fact of the matter is these
residential properties are anywhere from 12 to 15 feet in elevation above this site. There
will be some excavation, there will be some work, but this is not a situation where we are
going to come in and fill this site and bring it up to -- to their level. I mean it's going to
remain largely at the elevation that it currently is and that's why -- that's why when we talk
about height -- height is not a static number, it -- it's based on a variety of things and I
would -- we -- I think -- last comment. We are in -- we have got to find a better way in this
community to address development agreements, because you guys spend way too much
time on development agreement modifications and it's something that, you know, I have
talked with your staff and I have talked with some of you, because this is a prime example
that we are here because a development agreement essentially tied us to an exterior
design of a building and I would -- I would strongly recommend that in the future we -- we
limit our development agreements to what our impermissible uses, what are limitations
that go beyond what we normally find in our code, just so -- so that we don't have to bog
your agendas down and neighbors down discussing things that are largely esoteric based
upon decisions that were made 15 years ago. So, we would request the modification as
recommended by staff with the two proposed conditions that we proposed with an
adjustment of that proposed condition to 35 feet in height.
De Weerd: You do raise a good point, but I guess, conversely, maybe something shouldn't
last 15 years either and should allow the neighbors to -- to weigh in. Maybe there should
be an expiration date at some point, so that people do know what is going on.
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Wardle: You know -- and to that point that, Madam Mayor, I guess the concern is all of
us Wardles seem to be in front of you regularly on development agreement modifications
that sometime are -- deal with the most minute issues, just because of that use issue and
-- and not to provide a lecture, but when Idaho Code 67-6511(a) was adopted for purposes
of development agreements, it was designed and done with the intention that if a city
needs to allow a zone change, it is conditioned upon certain commitments from a
developer. Well, a lot of jurisdictions get too many things in what those conditions are. I
mean the conditions really ought to be the -- the things that are going to go on and
happen. I guess I disagree a little bit, Madam Mayor, with the suggestion that --
De Weerd: That's all right.
Wardle: -- when property gets --
De Weerd: We do not always agree.
Wardle: -- when property gets rezoned that, you know, in 15 years we come back and
revisit it. There needs to be some assurance that you can move forward and, you know,
a lot of these -- a lot of these -- a lot of these approvals, including for this development
and the residential development where these neighbors reside, were pre-recession. Our
development agreement is 2004. Their subdivision plat was 2008. But many of those
homes were not built for five, six, seven years. So, anyway, with that we -- we request
approval. It's always a pleasure.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I had just one question I wanted to clarify, Mr. Wardle. You stated 35 feet a couple
times and the slide says 40.
Wardle: I know.
Nary: I just don't want a disagreement at a later --
Wardle: Correct. We had put in our written submittal late last week 40 feet. After
discussing further with staff and my client, we agree 35 feet is appropriate, I just didn't
have time to change the slide.
Nary: Just wanted to make sure. Thank you.
De Weerd: Anything further? Okay.
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Bongiorno: Madam Mayor, City Council, quick -- quick comment. Mr. Wardle -- and Mr.
Wardle also knows, there are repercussions going above 30 feet.
Wardle: Correct.
Bongiorno: Okay.
Wardle: No. There are -- there are code issues and we are sensitive to that.
Bongiorno: Okay. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Wardle: Thank you.
De Weerd: Council?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Move we close the public hearing on Item H 2019-0091.
Cavener: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing on Item G. All those
in favor say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Anything like a motion?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Thank you. Mr. Borton.
Borton: I think this continuance has been helpful for everybody involved. I think
understanding what was already entitled on this property I think it's helpful for the
neighbors, as difficult as it might be. Things preceded many or all of some of the affected
neighbors. But I'm supportive of this application and in particular the -- the resolution with
some certainty of this height as presented by the applicant here today with the 35 feet
height cap. Again, I'm looking at it as a reduction from what could have been, rather than
up from zero. So, I think this application -- modifying this development agreement makes
several changes that make this -- this development better than what it was before and
more harmonious with the community. So, the fact that the pathway connection will be
included, the pond will be retained and improved as an amenity -- I think the access, the
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right-in, right-out moving a little further south is appropriate under the circumstances and
the height again at 35 feet balances the considerations appropriately, so -- if I didn't -- did
I move to approve?
De Weerd: No.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I move we approve H-2019-0091.
Cavener: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second. Any discussion?
Borton: Sure. Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: One last little comment. Where is Randy? So, thank you, everyone, for
participating and coming out. I think the input was really helpful and, Randy, we can talk
offline and Mr. Cavener is spot on about feedback. There is maybe ways we can do a --
almost like a continuing legal ed with realtors and if you're a realtor come on in here and
we are going to talk to you about what you could be looking for to help provide better
service to your clients. We are not doing the work. Maybe we could help them -- there is
-- there is ways we can use this as an opportunity to facilitate better relationships in these
transactions in our community. So, spot on for bringing it up. I think we can continue the
conversation. So, I just thought it was important to note.
De Weerd: It is important to note, because we do talk to the brokers and I don't know
how far that goes and -- about a tool that -- I think our planning department is constantly
trying to provide better tools to get that information out there. So, it is known and -- and
so, yeah, if there is a better way we are always open. So, thank you for bringing that up.
Anything further from Council? Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea; Bernt,
yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
I. Public Hearing for Gem Prep (H-2019-0100) by Erstad
Architects, Located at 2750 E. Gala Court
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1. Request: To vacate an existing 20’ x 20’ water easement
located near the northeast corner of Lot 7, Block 2 and the
northwest corner of Lot 8, Block 2 of Gramercy Subdivision
No. 1.
De Weerd: We have already H and so I a is public hearing on H-2019-0100. I will open
this public hearing with comments from Bill.
Parsons: Thank you, Mayor, Members of the Council. Next item on the agenda is the
Gem Prep water and sewer vacation. This -- this easement was created with the
recreation of the Gramercy Subdivision No. 1 plat. The applicant is here this evening to
vacate a 20 by 20 water and sewer easement, again, created with that subdivision and
the primary purpose for the vacation is, one, it's not -- the water service that's -- or the
water main that's within that easement isn't needed and so it needs to be abandoned per
Public Works specifications and once this is facilitated, then, the applicant will be able to
move forward with construction of expansion of the existing school on the site. So, that's
really what's driving the vacation this evening. Staff did route this to Public Works for their
comments and they are in favor of relinquishing the easement and having that water main
abandoned per their standards. Staff is recommending approval and I will stand for any
questions you may have.
De Weerd: Thank you, Bill. Any questions from Council? Okay. Is the applicant here?
Would you like to comment? Okay. Mr. Clerk, any signups?
Johnson: My apologies, Madam Mayor. I'm getting there now. Sorry, I clicked the wrong
link. I believe the only sign-in is the applicant Katrina. Okay. Yes.
De Weerd: Okay. Is there anyone who wishes to provide testimony on this item?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Our scouts are fading. I move we close the public hearing on Item 9-I, H-2019-
0100.
Little Roberts: Second.
De Weerd: Have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. All those in favor
say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
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Cavener: I move we approve Item 9-I, application of H-2019-0100 as presented.
Little Roberts: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item I. If there is no discussion, Mr.
Clerk.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, absent; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea;
Bernt, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
J. Public Hearing Continued from October 15, 2019 for Nick
Estates Subdivision (H-2019-0086) by LR Geomatics, PLLC ,
Located at 1180 N. Ten Mile Rd.
1. Request: To combine preliminary/final plat consisting of 4
building lots on 1.4 acres of land in the R -4 zoning district.
De Weerd: Item 9-J is a public hearing continued from October 15th for H-2019-0086. I
will open this -- I will ask for staff comments at this time.
Cavener: Madam Mayor, again, I will just interrupt for --
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Just to remain consistent, I was absent as this was presented. I had the
opportunity to review the record and prepared to render a decision tonight at presented.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Parsons: Thank you, Mayor, Members of the Council. This is the Nick Estates
Subdivision. It's a combined preliminary/final plat before you this evening. The site
consists of 1.4 acres of land, currently zoned R-4 and is located at 1180 North Ten Mile
Road. The Comprehensive Plan designation for this property is medium density
residential, which is -- anticipates densities between three to eight dwelling units to the
acre. The existing property is currently developed with a home, which is to be retained
on Lot 2, Block 1, which you can see here that fronts on Ten Mile and does have an
existing driveway to -- to that roadway, which is an arterial street. The application is
requesting a waiver to keep -- retain the existing access to that site and, then, these four
additional lots with the plat will take access from a common driveway. Both staff and
ACHD shared with the Commission that we did not support the existing access to Ten
Mile Road to remain, as this was -- one, our code does prohibit access to remaining on
arterial roadways and it was safer for the existing home to take access from the shared
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driveway that's presented before you this evening. I would also mention to the Council
that there is an existing out -- or accessory -- detached accessory dwelling that will be
removed as well and you can see that in the landscape plan in the lower right-hand corner.
So, the -- as I mentioned to you, the Comprehensive Plan designates this as medium
density residential. The plat before you is just below that, below three units to the acre at
2.84 units to the acre. So, the applicant is also requesting a step down in density. Again,
staff supports the request for the fact that it's zoned R-4 and those dimensional standards
-- the specific dimensional standards in the code requires a minimum of 8,000 square foot
lots, so what the applicant has drawn here is -- they are kind of constrained with the land.
So, in staff's recommendation it is consistent, we do support the step down just because
it is in-fill in nature and there isn't much other there -- there aren't any other design options
on the site to get additional density on that to get that up to increase the density on the
site consistent with the MDR designation. The Planning and Zoning Commission did
recommend approval of this project. Speaking in favor was Aaron Rush, who is the
applicant's representative and, then, we also had the owner -- property owner Elizabeth
Schranz speaking. No one testified in opposition and no one commented on the
application. Aaron Rush did submit written comments to the staff report in agreement
primarily with the conditions, but at the Planning and Zoning Commission we did discuss
the cross-access with the property to the north at quite -- at some length here, so one of
the recommended conditions in the staff report is that they grant cross-access to the
property to the north, because they, too -- the single family home with access to Ten Mile,
there may be a potential for that to develop with additional units in the future and so --
and consistent with our access policies in the code we wanted to make sure that we
provide another option for that property owner to share this driveway and, then, also there
was discussions with the addition of a street light that was required from Public Works
Department located within one of the common lots along Ten Mile Road. So, key issues
-- Commission required the cross-access as required by staff and, then, I know the
applicant worked with Public Works to try to determine if they could relocate the streetlight
on an existing pole in the area. I'm not sure if that was ever reached or agreed upon. I
will let the applicant weigh in on that. But since the Planning and Zoning Commission,
the only written testimony or e-mail that I received from the applicant in agreement with
the conditions of the staff -- in agreement with the Commission's recommendations --
again, they may still want to have you take under the consideration the access to Ten Mile
Road, the requirement for cross-access and, then, the streetlight. With that I will conclude
my presentation and stand for any questions you may have.
De Weerd: Thank you, Bill. Council, any questions? Okay. Is he applicant here? Thank
you for joining us and sticking with us. If you will, please, state your name and address
for the record.
Rush: Yes, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, my name is Aaron Rush. A-a-r-o-n.
R-u-s-h. I work for LR Geomatics at 2850 Mirmonte Street here in Meridian.
De Weerd: Thank you.
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Rush: Thank you, Bill, for taking over this project. I know that you got left with that, so I
appreciate you staying on top of it. We are in agreement generally with all of the
conditions that were given to us, with the exception of the couple that Bill mentioned and
part of the reason for this is this is a family development, so, again, they did not go as
dense as they could have on this project. It's zoned R-4. They probably could have went
even denser with a rezone potentially. I don't know if that would have been supported,
but they are actually doing a step down in density and they are not doing this to profit
from the property in any way, this is a mother and her three sons that are going to occupy
these lots. They are doing this with their own money and they are -- again, like I said,
they are not looking to profit and so some of the conditions I could understand from a
development perspective, like, for instance, the streetlight, you know, again, that's -- that's
Public Works and I don't want to get into the -- the whole deal with that. We are going to
work with ACHD to try to get that streetlight mounted on an existing overhead cross light,
but, again, that's just going to have to go through ACHD and that's something that is an
ongoing thing. From the city's perspective the Public Works -- Al Christy wanted them to
install a new light with a 12 foot mast arm like you see every 200 feet in front of new
development along these arterial streets. Currently this property is to 205 feet wide and
there is one at the north end. So, if it was five feet shorter they would not have to do it
and, actually, the subdivision that was developed to the south of them that requirement
was waived and so I kind of feel like that my client got kind of stuck holding the bag on
this and is now having to fund, you know, yet another -- a 6,000 dollar Public Works
improvement tacked onto their -- their -- their private development here. The other item
which was Public Works -- or, I'm sorry, it was a -- the staff's -- planning staff's comment
number eight in regards to the ingress-egress. So, they want, again, this 20 foot access
easement to serve the property to the north, so that if that property ever was developed
that you could close down the access there and take access through here, sticking with
the city's policy on limiting access to these arterial streets and I think that we would
probably support that. However, this road is not going to be even a private drive, it's going
to be a shared access drive and currently the -- the limit on that is six -- six lots can take
access off of a shared driveway and so if they develop that piece to the north with more
than two parcels or two lots, then, it would require a change in the nature of the road to
either a private street or public road, which I doubt that would happen, but, at any rate, it
would definitely cost somebody some money to improve that and make changes to the
road and, again, you know, they are not really looking to have traffic come through here
and so I don't know -- I mean we know that right now there is no plans for them to develop
this piece of property to the north and if they do I think that we would want to condition or
some sort of supplemental condition on that requirement that would limit this development
to two units if they were going to take access off it, so that it wouldn't change the nature
of the -- of the driveway that we are proposing -- the shared driveway. We don't want to
change the -- the nature of that and reclassify it to a private road and so -- I don't have a
pointer, but -- well, I guess I kind of do. So, this would be where it's -- this would be where
it's at right here and so if this is ever developed, then, they would want to close this
access, which, actually, I feel like is a good access, because it's in line here. Distancewise
it may not meet distance requirements, I don't know, but it's close. But the city would
prefer access to come through here and this will be where the -- the new driveway is.
But, at any rate, if we could get a condition or supplement the condition to limit that to two
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lots and for all expenses associated with the design and the construction of that access
to be on this party, then, I think we would be fine with that. But I'm not sure how we would
go about doing that, Bill. I don't know, does that require like a development agreement
or what is -- how do we do that? So we get that in writing.
Parsons: Mayor and Council, if I may address the applicant. Essentially, all we are
requiring is the easement. When this property to the north comes in and develops further
or redevelops or does nothing -- and so if something happens to the property to the north,
then, and at that point that owner and this owner will work on those -- negotiate who does
what at that time. We are not requiring the applicant to construct a driveway at this point,
we are just asking them to grant the easement. Because it may change. It may happen.
It may not happen. We don't know if this property will redevelop. What we don't want to
do is just be blind on the issue and, then, all of a sudden next week he comes in and they
want to tear it down and do a four plex on there and now we are -- we are -- our hands
are tied and we have to allow them to have access to Ten Mile Road, so -- or at least we
have to -- the reason why we brought it up in the staff report is if anyone comes into
develop this piece we are going to tell them you have access to the common driveway.
Code restricts up to six units off a common driveway. You are only allowed to do two units
on this property maximum, to be consistent with that access to the common driveway.
So, again, those are things that will be worked out down the road. We are not asking you
to construct anything, all we are saying is grant the easement, so in the event that
northern property wants another unit on the back half, they can have rights to that and
not impede Ten Mile Road, which is a major -- it's basically -- it's a corridor through our
community -- it's a major corridor, so we want to limit accesses to that roadway.
De Weerd: Thank you, Bill.
Rush: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council -- and I guess, you know, from our
perspective and the applicant's perspective on that would just be that this -- this does
place a burden on them to potentially deal with that down the road. It's an encumbrance
on the property that will last in perpetuity on this piece of property and I feel like that there
isn't a mechanism for them to protect their interest on when or when that is not going to
happen. At some point in time they are going to have to enter into negotiations with
somebody on who is going to pay for this and how it's going to be done. So, with that I
will end my -- my spiel here and turn things over to -- to the owner-applicant if they -- they
may want to come up and share a few words.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any questions?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Maybe just a comment to that concern -- and, Bill, correct me if I'm wrong, but if
-- if you provide the easement as part of this application to the north and that's the extent
of the obligation, you still hold all the cards if at some point in the future the property to
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the north develops and as a condition of its development needs -- because of its size it
needs to take access to the south, that applicant would come to this property and there
is an easement, but nothing would prevent you from saying you can -- you got access,
you can build the whole thing. You don't need the road. If the property of the north needs
a road, then, they can build the whole road. You are just providing them the ability to
cross your parcel. So, I don't know if you're necessarily losing leverage at that future
date, if that at least softens the blow at least on --
Rush: I guess -- I know that there will be some challenges with putting the driveway there.
There is an irrigation line that crosses there, so there will be some logistics, you know, as
far as working out a license agreement with the irrigation district, making sure the pipe
isn't too shallow in order to be able to support a road. So, there will be some design
components with that and, you know, I would -- I would hate for my client to be forced into
having to deal with that. But if there was a way that we could just ensure that that not be
the case, then, I think we would be more comfortable with it. But I understand your
perspective. You know, I think it just comes down to a matter of interpretation on what
does the easement mean, you know, and maybe I can -- you know, the way that I reserve
that easement on the plat -- I can get kind of crafty with the language on that and what
that easement actually means and what it doesn't mean and so we will look at that when
we -- when the time comes to -- to address it on the -- on the plat itself, because right now
it's not addressed.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions? Okay. Thank you.
Parsons: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, if I could just assist the applicant on
-- on how we can address that. My recommendation is I wouldn't graphically depicted it
on the plat. So many times what happens is as we create easements with plats we come
back before you to undo easements and we don't want to do that in this case. He has
the ability to record a separate document outside of the platting process, include a note
on the plat that references an instrument number -- an instrument number that they can
control how that's -- that's got it. In that -- to me in that cross-access agreement you can
say only single family homes can access or you have the right to this easement and they
can work those details out as they record that and don't put a -- leave a blanket easement
with a plat note. I would, again, advise him certainly that's something that we talked about
at the P&Z Commission that he can certainly work with staff and we can run that up the
flag pole with our city attorney's office when he's ready to prepare a draft agreement and
we could share that language, make sure we are on solid ground and move forward with
that. But certainly it is a private agreement. We don't try to get involved. All we say is
dedicate -- or at least provide the easement. Again, the gentleman there may not ever
do anything with it and may -- or may never be -- go into effect. So, certainly, we have
seen it where there is sunset clauses, we have seen it where people have eliminated the
uses on that, that no more than two single family homes can take access or right to that
easement. Again, we can leave -- we can be flexible with the applicant. What we don't
want to do is create additional accesses to the Ten Mile Road, because we know Ten Mile
is getting busier and busier every month, every year, and having something at least in
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place to look at now or -- and just thinking about long term viability of the property to the
north, it's the right thing to do at this point.
De Weerd: Thank you. Any other questions at this point? Mr. Clerk, any other sign-ups?
Johnson: Madam Mayor, there is one sign-up. Nick Shearer. Okay. Good evening.
Shearer: Hi. I'm Nick Shearer. I'm the co-owner on this property with my mother and my
-- also my brothers on this.
De Weerd: Thank you for being here.
Shearer: No problem. I was just wondering what you guys would want from us to speed
up this process. What else we can do? Anything comes to mind? Hopefully, the -- it's
very simple. The easement we are working on to the north and --
De Weerd: No. You are in front of us and -- and Council should take action and so, then,
you can move forward.
Shearer: All right.
De Weerd: Thank you. We always love someone to come up and say how can I help.
Shearer: Yeah. Whatever you need --
De Weerd: Or how can we help.
Shearer: Thank you for your time.
De Weerd: Council, any questions? Thank you.
Radek: Madam Mayor, just regarding the streetlight, the gentleman said if we can make
it faster I think that's probably a good segue for me to say -- the fastest way to -- to meet
our -- our requests would be to build a separate streetlight. I'm looking at the
conversations that Warren Stewart and Al Christy have had with the applicant regarding
the streetlight requirements, which are pretty clear in the design standards and whether
a light placed on the ACHD pole for the pedestrian signal would work. Their preference
is clearly to do a separate light. It would take some sort of agreement with ACHD. It
would take some assurance that the whole foundation that was done for the pedestrian
signal would be adequate for a light and it would take a separate electrical service. So,
both because it's what -- a transportation utility corridor and the -- and the city engineer
had requested and because it's a lot simpler, we are recommending that the applicant put
in the standard light as requested.
De Weerd: Kyle, I think there was mention that someone was not required to put in a
light.
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Radek: Madam Mayor, I did hear the applicant say that and I'm not aware of that. I
haven't -- I have been briefed on this by Al and by Warren. Didn't hear anybody say that
anybody -- requirement was waived. The text I see here it says that dozens of people --
dozens of applicants have had to do this similar -- in a similar fashion than this applicant.
I did look at the subdivision to the south and noted that the -- that subdivision to the south
was put in in 1999 when we didn't have this design standard, so maybe that's the case,
but I didn't -- I don't know of any -- any development where this requirement has been
waived as of late.
De Weerd: Thank you. Is there other testimony? Aaron, is there any final comments you
would like to make? Okay. Council, seeing no further testimony or comment, what would
you like to do?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: One more question for Kyle. Is this the type of streetlight that might be analogous
to some of the streetlights that we fund and put in in just our regular streetlight program?
Radek: Madam Mayor, Councilman Borton, I don't know the answer to that. I know that
we do some special projects that are safe routes to school projects and this project -- or
this location happens to be on the school route. W hether it's analogous or not and I'm
not quite sure what that question means, but it's a similar streetlight.
Borton: I'm just -- Madam Mayor, the reason it prompted the question, it's a small in-fill
type lot and -- not this one. These seem to be the opportunities where if we have a
streetlight program where we participate in fill-in challenged areas or incentivize
development of challenged areas, trying to come up with some way we can provide
assistance. We don't see this kind of stuff, so it's not I don't think creating a precedent,
but if unique circumstances exists, you got a really small lot, which makes the expense
proportionally big, can our own program be utilized or modified to help in those situations.
We are talking one light.
Radek: Well, Madam Mayor, Councilman Borton, I guess the only response I can -- I can
come up with for that is -- is Al Christy's words. I do not see how your client's property is
different than any other subdivision.
Borton: Good answer.
De Weerd: There is -- there is no doubt that there is a light needed out there. There was
a horrific accident in -- in -- in that area and it isn't well lit, but -- so lighting is needed.
Okay.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
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De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Move we close the public hearing on item 9-J.
Little Roberts: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing on Item 9-J. All
those in favor say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
De Weerd: If you are waiting for me to ask if anyone would like to make a motion on this,
I just did. I can't.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: So, I posed the question. It didn't get a lot of dialogue. I don't know if there is
even any interest in the -- in the idea of not waiving the light requirement because it's not
necessary, but trying to solve the -- that problem a different way utilizing our existing
program in these really small unique kind of in-filly sort of situations. If that's a terrible
idea that opens the door, speak now, because I'm missing it.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I don't think it's a terrible idea. I mean the fact of the matter is lighting is needed
there. If we were to deny this project the lighting needs would still be there. If the
applicant is unable to do the lighting -- and I agree, I don't think it makes sense at this
particular spot on -- adjacent to this particular application. I just don't know the
mechanism for us to say as part of our light program, because this is a small in-fill and a
challenging area, along the school route, let's put a light there as part of our streetlight
program. I just don't know the mechanism to do that. I was hoping that some of the
smarter members of Council would figure it out and agree.
Radek: Madam Mayor, I'm just -- I'm just coming up with an idea here. I guess there is
lots of places around the city that are -- have deficient lighting, lots of them, and we have
got only a couple tools in the drawer and I think the most important one is the requirement
of development tool. We get far less money to fix the deficient lighting every year than
we have deficient lighting areas. So, if we were to rely on our funds only, the way we are
funded now, to fix everyone we find, we won't fix them.
De Weerd: So, your tools are as areas redevelop or as Council funds, the
recommendations in the priority area -- or order.
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Radek: Madam Mayor, I believe that's correct. It's -- it's either -- either making these
improvements when development happens or making them according to that program.
Borton: Anybody else?
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: It certainly makes sense. I mean there has to be some way that we can help these
guys, so --
De Weerd: So, as Mr. Borton said, if there is concern of precedence, what -- what
considers when you will say we want to pay for a light and when you wouldn't? Is it two
acres and less or is it -- I mean -- I think staff would like to have some kind of sideboards
on -- if we are going to set a precedence to start putting in lights as areas redevelop,
before the recommendation through a program that was established to identify priority
areas to put safety lighting in, we probably should -- or I don't care. I mean I'm gone in
two months. But if you don't want to set a precedence, maybe you should discuss why
this and not the next application.
Borton: Good question.
De Weerd: I don't want to sound insensitive, but I do want to make sure that we are not
opening it up that we all of a sudden become the lightning funding source for every
development that comes in front of us, because we do need lights.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I guess I don't think that we are setting any type of precedent. We fund a light
program to serve areas that need additional lighting. If we need -- I feel like every year I
say this. If you guys need more money in your budget -- streetlighting is a program I am
so supportive of. If you guys need more money, bring that to us. So, if -- if we are not
funding it adequately I think that's a conversation that needs to happen at the budget and
I'm open to having that like I am every year. Again, if we are setting a precedent I guess
we are setting a precedent that we would maybe use our lighting program to build a light
on small projects near school zones where there have been accidents. I mean I feel like
that we are so overcomplicating this, tonight, folks. I mean to me this seems like such a
common sense thing to do and I don't know why we are not able to figure it out.
De Weerd: I guess because every decision that is made, then, opens the door to the next
one and so if you want to do this -- exactly what you just said, set some sideboards to say
it's three acres or less, it's in a route to school, and it's where we have had some horrible
accidents -- I am good with. I think that staff could work with those kind of guidelines. But
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be prepared to fund the next light. I -- we are just saying we have never had this request
before where someone says, oh, you don't want to pay for it, well, we will -- government,
we will pay for it.
Radek: Madam Mayor, I would have to agree with that.
Cavener: Every year. Good grief.
Radek: I have to agree with that sentiment. There is a lot of smaller lots on arterial roads
and how big does a lot have to be? I think we had this conversation for a long time with
the carwash on -- on Fairview before deciding to require a streetlight.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I closed the public hearing; right?
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Borton: Madam Mayor, I move that we approve H-2019-0086 and to include the cross-
access as most articulately described -- the cross-access easement requirement is
included. Mr. Parsons described it very well as far as the flexibility that could be afforded
to accomplish that goal. And waive the requirement of a light at this location, a singular
waiver that won't happen again until we can articulate -- well, if you want to be clear, there
is your sideboard. Until we can articulate more clearly some parameters, as narrow and
tight as they might be, where that might ever be utilized again. But in this very specific
project I think it's appropriate.
Cavener: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second. Any discussion?
Borton: And Madam Mayor, I think that the idea of utilizing and maybe focusing some
portion of our streetlight program in a way to encourage in-fill in these very narrow
challenging circumstances, maybe even more narrow than this application, is a way to
use it as a positive tool. So, glass is half full on what it could be. But for now it's a -- it's
a one and done with some homework for us.
De Weerd: So, which -- which light are you removing? Not the light on the traffic -- the
pedestrian one; right?
Borton: It's the obligation to put the light in. I think the pedestrian was an option --
De Weerd: Was there two -- two lights?
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Radek: Madam Mayor, there is an existing pedestrian crossing and they were --
De Weerd: Okay.
Radek: -- just being asked to put in --
De Weerd: It's where to put it. Okay. Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
Parsons: Madam Mayor, before we call roll, just clarification on the motion. Please
provide clarification on the request for the step down in density and, then, also the access
to Ten Mile Road, please.
Borton: Madam Mayor, the step down is -- yes. Access to Ten Mile, what --
Parsons: Yeah. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the existing home has an
access to Ten Mile Road and we want that to be closed and it to take access. So, the
existing home on Lot 2, Block 1, needs to take access from the shared driveway as we
have a condition --
Borton: Okay.
Parsons: Yeah. And they were asking for a waiver of that. Both staff and ACHD didn't
support the existing access remaining, so we just want to make sure that either you
support staff or grant the access. We will leave it in your court at this point.
Borton: Yeah. So, Madam Mayor. Do that. So, that waiver of UDC provision 11-3A-3
accomplishes that goal? The motion includes that, too.
De Weerd: Okay. Anything further? Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, absent; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea;
Bernt, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 10: Ordinances
C. Ordinance No. 19-1858: An Ordinance (H-2019-0006 – Three
Corners Ranch) for Annexation of a Parcel of Land Being a
Portion Of The NW ¼ of Section 29, Township 4 North, Range 1
East, Boise Meridian, Ada County, Idaho, as Described in
Attachment “A” And Annexing Certain Lands And Territory,
Situated In Ada County, Idaho, and Adjacent and Contiguous to
the Corporate Limits of the City of Meridian as Requested by the
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City of Meridian; Establishing And Determining The Land Use
Zoning Classification of 31.104 Acres of Land from RUT To R-4
(Medium Low Density Residential) Zoning Districts in the
Meridian City Code; Providing that Copies of this Ordinance
Shall Be Filed With The Ada County Assessor, The Ada County
Recorder, And The Idaho State Tax Commission, As Required
by Law; And Providing for a Summary of the Ordinance; And
Providing for a Waiver of the Reading Rules; And Providing an
Effective Date.
De Weerd: Okay. Item 10-C or is ordinance 19-1858. Mr. Clerk, will you, please, read
this by title.
Johnson: Thank you, Madam Mayor. This is an ordinance related to H-2019-0006, Three
Corners Ranch, for annexation of a parcel of land being a portion of the NW ¼ of Section
29, Township 4 North, Range 1 East, Boise meridian, Ada county, Idaho, as described in
Attachment “A” and annexing certain lands and territory, situated in Ada county, Idaho,
and adjacent and contiguous to the corporate limits of the City of Meridian, as requested
by the City of Meridian; establishing and determining the land use zoning classification of
31.104 acres of land from RUT to R-4 (Medium Low Density Residential) zoning districts
in the Meridian City Code; providing that copies of this ordinance shall be filed with the
Ada County Assessor, the Ada County Recorder, and the Idaho State Tax Commission,
as required by law; and providing for a summary of the ordinance; and providing for a
waiver of the reading rules; and providing an effective date.
De Weerd: Okay. You have heard this read by title. Would you like to hear it read in its
entirety? No, you don't want to say that. You could go home. Thank you for joining us.
Council?
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor, I move we approve Ordinance 19-1858 with suspension
of rules.
Cavener: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve item 10-C. Mr. Clerk, will you call
roll.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, absent; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea;
Bernt, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes.
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MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
D. Ordinance No. 19-1859: An Ordinance (H-2019-0058 – Silver
Springs Subdivision) For Annexation Of A Parcel Of Land
Situated In The North One-Half Of The Northeast Quarter Of
Section 31, Township 4 North, Range 1 East, Boise Meridian,
Ada County, Idaho, As Described In Attachment “A” And
Annexing Certain Lands And Territory, Situated In Ada County,
Idaho, And Adjacent And Contiguous To The Corporate Limits
Of The City Of Meridian As Requested By The City Of Meridian;
Establishing And Determining The Land Use Zoning
Classification Of 5.19 Acres Of Land From RUT To R-4 (Medium
Low Density Residential) Zoning District In The Meridian City
Code; Providing That Copies Of This Ordinance Shall Be Filed
With The Ada County Assessor, The Ada County Recorder, And
The Idaho State Tax Commission, As Required By Law; And
Providing For A Summary Of The Ordinance; And Providing For
A Waiver Of The Reading Rules; And Providing An Effective
Date.
De Weerd: Item 10-D is Ordinance 19-1859. Mr. Clerk, will you, please, read this
ordinance by title.
Johnson: Thank you, Madam Mayor. By title. Thank you, Madam Mayor. An Ordinance
related to H-2019-0058, Silver Springs Subdivision, for annexation of a parcel of land
situate in the north one-half of the northeast quarter of Section 31, Township 4 North,
Range 1 East, Boise meridian, Ada county, Idaho, as described in Attachment “A” and
annexing certain lands and territory, situated in Ada county, Idaho, and adjacent and
contiguous to the corporate limits of the City of Meridian as requested by the City Of
meridian; establishing and determining the land use zoning classification of 5.19 acres of
land from RUT to R-4 (Medium Low Density Residential) zoning district in the Meridian
City Code; providing that copies of this ordinance shall be filed with the Ada County
Assessor, the Ada County Recorder, and the Idaho State Tax Commission, as required
by law; and providing for a summary of the ordinance; and providing for a waiver of the
reading rules; and providing an effective date.
De Weerd: Okay. Council?
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor, I move that we approve Ordinance 19-1859 with
suspension of rules.
Borton: Second.
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De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Ordinance 10-D. Mr. Clerk, will you
call roll.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, absent; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea;
Bernt, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 11: Future Meeting Topics
De Weerd: Anything under our last item, 11?
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Madam Mayor, I hate to bring this up. I wanted to wait until you were done with
the ordinance. It is not required by Idaho Code that we post signs within the city regarding
hands free phone usage, but some of our Idaho cities have and so you may want to
ponder -- not for tonight, but for future discussion, do you want to do that and provide that
around the city. Now, again, the cities that do this are like Hailey and Ketchum and that
area where they -- they have passed an ordinance like this, but they are much smaller
and their entrances and exits are much more limited than Meridian, but I wanted to at
least put that out for you to consider. There are, obviously, costs assigned, ACHD will
normally put them up for us for no cost, but they will charge us for the signs themselves.
So, something to ponder for the future as we want to roll this out as another educational
tool.
De Weerd: Yeah. I think that the chief mentioned the -- the signs in his first testimony that
they were very helpful in letting people know.
Bongiorno: Yeah. Madam Mayor, when I went up to see the presentation in Sun Valley,
it's the first thing you see when you're coming into town is we are a hands free city. So,
very helpful.
Nary: I just wanted to raise that for -- for a thought for the future discussion, because,
obviously, there would be numerous areas we have to put that or we are going to try to
do that and, then, there would, obviously, be a significant cost to it, but -- anyway, I just
wanted to raise that while it was still fresh.
De Weerd: Okay. Anything further? If not, I would entertain a motion to adjourn.
Cavener: You want to make a motion?
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Bernt: I would love to make a motion that we adjourn I guess. I would like to make a
motion right now that we adjourn --
Radek: Excuse me, before you do that -- I'm sorry. I know we are about done, but I just
-- I should have asked this at the last, Madam Mayor, Councilman Bernt. I'm sorry, I
should have asked this on that last item. Is it your desire as Council, just to follow up,
that we put in a streetlight with this project or put in a streetlight as soon as possible at
that location?
De Weerd: I have no idea what the intent was, so maybe Mr. Borton can answer that
question.
Borton: Madam Mayor. I think we would look for your recommendation on what options
there are -- we couldn't articulate whether we had the authority to direct it to be put in, so
we didn't, but understanding there is a need, you could probably come back and say here
is what we could do and when.
Radek: I guess I will have to pass this to Al and just say a streetlight was -- requirement
was waived for the project and ask for some guidance from you guys, because I think he
will probably say, well, there is a lot more important places I can put streetlights.
De Weerd: Kyle, just have him -- do you have a rating system? Have it go through the
rating system and, then, if you could just e-mail Council on -- on what the finding was.
Radek: Thanks.
De Weerd: Okay.
Radek: Yeah. Sorry I didn't bring that up earlier.
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: Yeah, so I would like to take this opportunity to adjourn this City Council meeting
this evening.
De Weerd: Was that a motion?
Bernt: Yes.
De Weerd: Okay.
Bernt: A motion.
De Weerd: Do we have a second?
Cavener: Second.
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Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: I had a motion and a second. Do you have discussion, Mr. Borton?
Borton: I was going to do a substitute motion, if I could, to adjourn the meeting, in lieu of
your motion.
Bernt: I second that. I second that motion.
Cavener: Call for the question. Let's go home.
Borton: Let the record reflect Councilman Bernt is laughing.
De Weerd: And what was your substitute motion? Will you, please, repeat that on the
record.
Borton: To adjourn.
Bernt: Second.
De Weerd: To adjourn what?
Borton: The meeting.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to adjourn the meeting. All those in
favor say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 8:40 P.M.
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