HomeMy WebLinkAbout2019-10-15 RegularMeridian City Council October 15, 2019.
A Meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 6:05 p.m., Tuesday,
October 15, 2019, by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Tammy de Weerd, Joe Borton, Ty Palmer, Anne Little Roberts and
Treg Bernt.
Members Absent: Genesis Milam and Luke Cavener.
Also Present: Chris Johnson, Bill Nary, Kevin Holmes, Warren Stewart, Mark Ford, Jeff
Lavey, Joe Bongiorno and Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll-call Attendance:
Roll call.
X__ Anne Little Roberts X _ _Joe Borton
X__ Ty Palmer X__ Treg Bernt
______Genesis Milam ______Lucas Cavener
__X__ Mayor Tammy de Weerd
De Weerd: Thank you. We apologize that we are starting a few minutes late. Thank
you for joining us. Always love to see a scout in the group. So, welcome. For the
record it is Tuesday, October 15th. It's five minutes after 6:00. We will start with roll call
attendance, Mr. Clerk.
Item 2: Pledge of Allegiance
De Weerd: Item No 2 is the Pledge of Allegiance. If you will all rise and join us in the
pledge.
(Pledge of Allegiance recited.)
Item 3: Community Invocation
De Weerd: So, we don't have anyone listed under community invocation.
Item 4: Adoption of Agenda
De Weerd: So, I will move to four, adoption of the agenda.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
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Borton: There are no changes to the agenda as published, so I move we adopt the
agenda.
Little Roberts: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to adopt the agenda. All those in favor say
aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. TWO ABSENT.
Item 5: Future Meeting Topics - Public Forum (Up to 30 Minutes Maximum)
De Weerd: There is no proclamation that I'm aware of, so I will skip that and move to
Item 6, future meeting topics, Mr. Clerk.
Johnson: Madam Mayor, I think there was a misprint on yours, so proclamation
shouldn't show. So, five is future meeting topics.
De Weerd: Okay.
Johnson: Apologize for that and there was one sign in, but they are here for a project
later on the night and also signed in there. So, there is no additional.
Item 6: Action Items
A. Resolution 19-2169: A Resolution for the Appointment of
Robert Wyllie to Seat 6 to the Meridian Solid Waste
Commission and Shawn Keating to Seat 7 of the Meridian
Solid Waste Commission
De Weerd: Okay. So, Item 6 under Action Items. 6-A is a Resolution 19-2169. This is
to add two new members to our solid waste commission. Both of my appointees are
here tonight, so after you take action, Council, I will invite them up individually to come
and say hello and -- and we are really excited to add two new citizen members to the
SWAC. They both bring very diverse and different experience to the table. Both of
them have a true passion about serving on this commission and excitement about
rolling up their sleeves and -- and adding to the work that is currently being done. So,
Council, I would answer any questions that you might have. If not I would ask for a
motion to approve Resolution 19-2169.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
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Little Roberts: Madam Mayor, I move that we approve Resolution 18-2169 to appoint
Robert Wyllie to Seat 6 and Shawn Keating to Seat 7 of the Meridian Solid Waste
Commission.
Bernt: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second. Any questions? Discussion? Mr. Clerk, will
you call roll.
Bernt, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. TWO ABSENT.
De Weerd: Okay. And I see Bob. Would you like to come forward and introduce
yourself, tell us a little bit about yourself and whatever else you would like to say.
Wyllie: My name is Bob Wyllie. Robert Wyllie. I go by Bob. I'm a retired entrepreneur.
I have started several businesses, mostly involved in document management and
information management. I spent 15 years with a Fortune 500 company. I spent 30
some odd years with my own companies, three of which I built and sold. Most of my
experience in selling systems and implementing systems has been in the public sector.
My company wrote the software for the state of California for the recycling of glass,
plastic, and aluminum and that software has been running now for over 20 years. So, I
have been involved on that end of solid waste. I have had a lot of experience with the
military and veterans affairs. Before moving here last fall I was the commander of the
Scottish American Military Society in northern California and we did a lot of military
events and honors and so on. So, if anyone has any questions?
De Weerd: No. You forgot to mention you're a Meridian Lions Club member.
Wyllie: I worked my first rodeo this year.
De Weerd: He's never done a rodeo before, but you survived right?
Wyllie: I did.
De Weerd: Great. Council, any questions? Bob, we are excited to have you on the
team. There is a lot of activity and energy going on in our recycling discussions and
programs right now. So, we welcome your experience and your voice to the team.
Wyllie: Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Shawn, if you would like to come forward. Shawn is also in the
recycling realm in his occupation. So, Shawn, if you will introduce yourself and give us
a little information about your background.
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Keating: Yeah. At the moment I work for IDOC, I'm an officer there. I have a recycling
team that goes out and collects with all the institutions trash and from that we recycle
everything we can. So, I have a sphere that is -- 14 times seven that I take out daily
and just work with them on communication skills and work ethic skills and getting the job
done every day. So, I deal with recycling on the aspect of Republic Services, with
Western Recycling. I work with them, I work with other contractors to recycle metal and
I'm just -- I'm excited to be a part of a team that is moving forward on that, so --
De Weerd: And so he can bring some of his experience and he is excited to take the
experience he -- he gains back to -- to the correctional facilities and -- and apply it there.
Shawn, thank you for coming. I appreciate both you and Bob being here tonight and --
and being able to give a face with a name for the City Council. Council, any questions?
Okay. Thank you for your willingness to serve. Thank you. Okay. Now you guys are
committed, so that's what just happened.
B. Public Hearing Continued from September 24, 2019 for Victory
Commons MDA (H-2019-0091) by BVA Development, LLC.
Located at 130 E . Victory Rd. and 3030 S. Meridian Rd.
1. Request: Modified Development Agreement for the purpose
of removing the subject property from DA Instrument #
106155843 and to be placed into a new, separate
development agreement.
De Weerd: Okay. Item 6-B is a public hearing continued from September 24th on H-
2019-0091. I will for staff -- how many of you are new to our Council meeting tonight?
First public hearing. Okay. Let me share with you a little bit about what to expect. So,
this is for our public hearing part. We will start on the applications on the agenda. First
with staff comments. They will introduce the -- the application to City Council and -- and
what their review has shown. Then the applicant comes forward. The applicant has 15
minutes to share comments on their application. At that point after they have concluded
we will ask for public comment. You have three minutes. There is a timer on the
podium on the screen that will show you the -- the time clock. At the end of three
minutes if you have not concluded your remarks I will ask you to summarize and at the
end of public comment Council will have an opportunity to ask questions of any of those
that had testimony, staff or applicant. The applicant has ten minutes to wrap up if they
need that much time and I will note that there is a large public packet of staff comments,
agency comments, Planning and Zoning minutes and public testimony in written form.
So, this Council has had an opportunity to review all the documents and they will be
using that in their consideration. So, with that I will turn this over to Kevin and, Kevin,
just want to thank you for your service to the city. I know that this is your last City
Council meeting and we are very sad to leave -- or lose you to the city of Boise. I hate
to say that, but certainly we know that's where you and your family live and -- and you
had some great family considerations. But thank you for -- for your service to our city.
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Holmes: Well, thank you for that, Madam Mayor. That's very kind of you. Yeah. So,
this first item before you is the Victory Commons development agreement modification.
H-2019-0091. This property is located where the current Victory Greens Nursery is
operating out of on the northeast corner of Meridian Road and Victory Road. The site
consists of 16.74 acres of land, zoned C-G and some history on the property. It was
annexed with a development agreement, a combined final and preliminary plat, and a
conditional use permit back in 2003 and addendum to the development agreement was
approved in 2006. The Comprehensive Plan future land use map designation for this
property is commercial and with this application the applicant is requesting to modify the
existing development agreement for the purpose of updating ownership information and
the boundaries of the property subject to the new terms, modifying and adding
provisions and to include a new site plan. There is two specific conditions in the current
DA that the applicant has specifically identified as being the reasons for this modification
request. The first is a requirement that the buildings be constructed with specific design
features. These include sloped metal roofs with eaves supported by posts and a
minimum of three foot wainscoting constructed a brick and stone. So, this top image
here is a picture of the Legacy Feed and Fuel, which is right there at that hard corner
and it's built to the standards that I just mentioned and as you can see the bottom,
proposed buildings from the applicant, are a different style and do not meet those
requirements. With the current -- with the current development agreement they would
be required to go through the CUP process for each individual building. In addition to
these -- well, actually -- so, with the -- if Council were to approve this modification staff is
recommending that all new buildings do still contain common architectural features. So,
these would include kind of this faux wood accents and metal panels and extra windows
beyond what is required by the architectural standards manual. The second specific
change that the applicant would like to make is the replacement of the existing site plan
with a new one. So, here you can see the current site plan on the left and the proposed
new one on the right. The larger buildings here in the center with the new plan are
proposed to be multi-tenant flex space, which is a principally permitted use in a C-G
zone and these other buildings along Meridian Road are proposed to be a mixture of
office, retail, and healthcare services. In addition this new site plan does move the
approach to Meridian Road from currently in the north -- very north of this property to a
little bit to the south. The applicant has received approval from Idaho Transportation
Department for this new location, provided that it be a right-in, right-out only and that a
traffic separator be installed between the north and southbound lanes of Meridian Road.
Staff is supportive of this relocation with the conditions provided by ITD. Since this is a
state highway Council will have to approve this new location as outlined by UDC 11-3H-
4B. Some other recommended conditions from staff I would like to highlight include the
connection of a micro path, which currently exists in this neighborhood to the northeast,
so we would like to have that connect all the way to the -- to a future pathway here
along Meridian Road. We would like a pathway easement to be dedicated as well on
Meridian Road. There is currently a sidewalk that's in pretty good condition, so it seems
premature to have that be ripped out and a multi-use pathway be installed at this point
time, but we would like the easement put into place and also staff has recommended
that with this existing pond here to the south, that it's improved with walkways and
maybe a seating area, so that it can be a usable amenity for the commercial
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development prior to any of these southern areas being developed. The written
testimony received so far has been from Roberta Stewart, which is the applicant's
representative. Generally she is in an agreement with the staff report, except for that
last -- those two conditions that I mentioned around the pond. The applicant would
actually like to remove the pond entirely as -- remove the existing pond, which would
require the consent of the neighboring property owners who are party to the easement
agreement, which created it in the first place. If they can attain the consent of these
owners the applicant has submitted an alternative site plan, which, basically, looks like
this, just without the pond, to be included with the DA. Staff, though, is supportive of
retaining the pond and developing it as an amenity for the commercial development as
outlined in the staff report before you. One outstanding issue for Council is the request
to modify the standards of UDC 11-3H-4 for the access point to State Highway 69 as
shown on the site plan. Staff is recommending approval with the conditions listed in the
staff report and I will stand for any questions.
De Weerd: Thank you, Kevin. Council, any questions for staff at this time? Okay. Is
the applicant here? Good evening. If you will, please, state your name and address for
the record.
Stewart: Good evening, Madam Mayor. My name is Roberta Stewart. And Council
Members. The address is 2775 West Navigator Way and it's Suite 220 in Meridian. I
work for BVA Development and we are the agent for the owner of the project and that's
Kuna-Victory, LLC, and I think Kevin did a great job. He absolutely outlined the project
perfectly and I really don't have anything to add to it and his written summary was good
and also oral presentation, but I am really concerned about the pond and it's actually a
mistake of mine. We put the site plan in showing that pond and it does exist currently.
It's over kempt and, you know, it's just overgrown and unkempt and it's hard to take care
of and so we have talked to the owner of the Legacy Feed and Fuel and also Tim
Mussell. This is the Mussell Corner Subdivision. And they are both amenable to getting
rid of the pond and having more of a cohesive commercial project and that pond is -- is
-- is pretty large for this commercial project and so we were going to get together in the
next few weeks to work out cross-access easements and parking, but also to vacate
that pond. But I went ahead and accidentally put in the site plan that showed that pond.
That, then, forced Kevin to have to deal with it and I don't blame him. If you're going to
have a pond like that you might need some benches and a pathway. But we were
hoping that we could swap out that first site plan and put in a second one. I have
already sent it over and it just basically is green shading over the pond. So, that
wouldn't be part of our development in the future. There are other public amenities and
open space amenities that will be going in. That micro path is about 12 feet wide. It's
landscaped two feet on each side. It will meander through our project and hook up the
residential neighborhoods to Meridian Road. So, I think that pathway and the walking
amenity will be used far more than that pond. So, if -- if at all possible, we are hoping
that the new site plan could be put into our application and approved with the DA, the
development agreement, or at the very least items 10 and 11 in the conditions of
approval indicate that we need to aerate the pond and put a bench. If we could just
insert language that said so long as the pond exists we have to aerate or put the
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benches in, so that if we and the landowners ultimately vacate that pond, then, those
requirements would go away. But other than that I think Kevin did a great job and we
are grateful for his hard work and if I -- if you have any questions I stand for questions.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions? Okay. Thank you.
Stewart: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Clerk, do we have sign-ups?
Johnson: Madam Mayor, we did. There were eight total sign-ups. Those names
appear on your desktop under sign in for testimony of them four wish to testify. Ms.
Stewart was one and the next is Randy Lasher.
De Weerd: Good evening. If you will, please, state your name and address for the
record.
Lasher: Certainly. Randy Lasher. L-a-s-h-e-r.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Lasher: Thank you. And wanted to say good evening, Mayor, City Council, law
enforcement. Thank you for what you do.
De Weerd: Could you give us your address?
Lasher: Address is 267 East Observation Drive, Meridian, Idaho. 83642.
De Weerd: Thank you, Randy.
Okay. So, we are in -- in the pictures that went up on the TV we are in that row
of homes that back up to this proposed construction and what we want to do is just
maybe be more involved. I'm also the president of the HOA, as there are two other
serving members here in the audience from the HOA.
De Weerd: Randy, if you are speaking for the HOA you do have ten minutes if you
would -- if you need to use it.
Lasher: That could be helpful. Thank you. And so -- so our concern is -- for a lot of us
this was the first time we have heard about this development. We were invited to kind
of a preliminary presentation by the developer.
Bernt: I'm sorry, Randy. You said you were or you weren't invited?
Lasher: We were. Yeah. And in that presentation the information was fairly limited.
Yeah, we got to see a plot plan. There were no renderings of the building, how high
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they were going to be, what they look like and so a lot of the neighbors that backup to
that property are concerned about heights and visibility of our unobstructed views. The
people that bought homes on that row at Observation Terrace paid a lot premium for an
unobstructed view and so we know nothing is forever, but we would like to have some
consideration for what is going to go back behind there that could take that view away.
For a lot of us -- my wife and I, we planned that this is our last home. We plan to retire
there and to have a structure behind our home that every time we walk out in our
backyard there could be a row of windows facing into our backyard. So, I think what we
want to know primarily is what are the final -- what are the final drawings? What's the --
what's the property going to look like and how high will it be and what will that view look
like from our properties and we haven't been able to get that information from the
developer. So, what we are -- what I'm hoping for -- what my wife and I are hoping for is
to have a meeting with the builder, have a meeting with the developer to get more
information on what exactly is going to go back behind. We have -- we have their
version and I can appreciate that, but from our perspective -- this is all coming as kind of
a surprise and I think -- I think we, as members of Meridian, would like to be more
involved in -- not so much what they are doing back there, because, believe me, having
the nursery and the dirt gone and some of the tractor noise is -- is going to be a good
thing. So, we are okay with replacing the nursery, but our major concern is what's that
view out back going to look like from the fence line up. We are going to lose views of
some nice trees and so what we are asking the Council to do is -- is help us figure out
how high that building is going to actually go from ground level, what we are going to
see as homeowners, because it could affect our resale, it could affect our quality of life.
There is going to be more noise back there with all those tenants, but the primary
reason we are here tonight is to just get clarity on what the final design will look like and
what's going to happen to our views. Questions?
De Weerd: Thank you.
Lasher: You're welcome.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton. Randy, I'm sorry, we do have a question.
Borton: Too slow or you were too quick.
De Weerd: He was too slow.
Lasher: I think I was anxious to sit down -- to sit down.
Borton: You were scooting quick. Remind me that topography of that area. I have
been out there, but does it slope down --
Lasher: Yeah.
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Borton: -- as you go into this project?
Lasher: Yeah. So, Observation Terrace is elevated above that nursery by probably ten
or 12 feet. There is a -- if you go climb over our fence there is an easement there that
the water -- the irrigation line runs through.
Borton: Right.
Lasher: If you go from that ground level, which is our ground level, there is about a ten
foot drop off to what looks like would be grade for the building. So, there is -- there is
some ten -- there is about a ten foot relief there that a single story would be fine with.
It's when we get above that -- when we get above that ten feet, 12 foot build height is
when we start encroaching into our views and so our concern is -- being that this kind of
came out of left field -- is what -- what is the final building going to look like and what's
that going to -- what's that -- what's the overall finished height going to be.
De Weerd: So, you probably like that they have a flat -- they have changed the design
from the slope roof to the flat, because that won't add to the height.
Lasher: Yeah. And that -- that's a good thing. But, then, as -- as the pictures were put
up on the screen, I saw some different roof lines. I saw some peaks that aren't on -- on
their website rendering. So, I'm not really sure what the final building is going to look
like, because every time we look at it it looks different and when we went to the very first
kind of -- come see what we are going to do, there were no renderings.
De Weerd: You only saw the plat that you see on the screen right now? You can see it
-- in front of you.
Lasher: Oh. Yeah.
De Weerd: Yeah.
Lasher: So, this is -- this is the plot -- plan I'm looking at now.
Bernt: Right.
De Weerd: Yes. And the -- the color one.
Lasher: Right.
De Weerd: That is the modified site plan.
Lasher: But that's just the plot plan. I don't see any -- I don't see a structure on what --
De Weerd: Right. But this is what they showed you -- shared with us at the
neighborhood meeting?
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Lasher: They did show us this, but what they -- and what I asked for was do you have
something showing us what the building is actually going to look like? Because this
doesn't represent the structure, this just represents how it will be laid out.
De Weerd: Right.
Lasher: And the response was, no, we didn't bring anything. So, we are trying to figure
out what the heck's going back behind us and how tall it's going to be.
De Weerd: Okay.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: One last question, Mr. Lasher. So, no detail was provided to you by the
applicant regard to how high their buildings are going to be. So, you basically know
nothing.
Lasher: Correct. We did ask at one of the -- at the only meeting that they offered and
all the information they would give us was it could be 24 to 27 feet. The overall height
of the structure from ground level to the top level would be anywhere from 24 to 27 feet.
Well, if there is a ten foot drop off, there is still seven -- 14 to 17 feet that's
unaccountable that could now become our view and that's what we are trying to figure
out.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Lasher: Yeah. Any other questions?
Bernt: No, sir.
Lasher: Can I leave now?
De Weerd: Yes.
Lasher: Thank you.
De Weerd: Mr. Clerk.
Johnson: Madam Mayor, next is Joel White.
De Weerd: Thank you for joining us. If you will, please, state your name and address
for the record.
White: My name is Joel White. I live at 201 East Observation Drive here in Meridian.
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De Weerd: Thank you.
White: Madam Mayor, Members of the City Council, I want to follow up on Randy's
presentation a little bit. I live in one of the houses about direct the center of the houses
that face this proposed structure or development and did a little checking on some of
the things Randy talked about. I went out and did some measurement and found out
that we have an elevation, as you said, above the ground that our lots sit on and I have
a six foot fence above that and if you look at the six foot fence that we have all along the
backside look out to see, above that is what we are talking about our view now. It works
out that that fence, as best as I can determine, with a little bit of work out, there is about
20 feet above the ground level -- 18 to 20 feet above the ground level out where the
structures would be. The proposed structure, if it were built, that it is 25 feet tall -- some
are 25 to 27 -- is going to be that -- rather than having a six foot fence behind your
house, we are going to have a 15 to 17, 18 foot fence behind our house in a sense,
because that structure runs with a flat roof all the way along the -- all the way along --
pretty much all of the houses are on that -- on our level. When we purchased the
property, as Randy pointed out, the premiums -- premiums for that particular setup -- the
lots that face out that way was between ten and 12,000 dollars additional paid to have
the view. So, what I would like to request of Council is to consider that any structure
that is much above 20 feet above that ground level is going to block our view. If it is a
solid structure and it appears that we are going to be on the side of the structure that
contains the air conditioners, that will compound that. So, to the extent that that
restriction on the height that they are going to build this can be considered requests,
that that's done to keep it as low as possible. Any questions?
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: How high is your fence above -- or, excuse me, how high is your -- what's the
height of your house above the fence? So, the fence is here. Doesn't your house sit
above?
White: No. The house is -- they are basically -- the type of construction that is there are
basically built at ground level. So, I think the fence is a six foot fence and patio is about
the bottom of the fence and it's about six inches up to the floor -- first floor of the house.
So, basically, when you stand in the house and look out you're looking at the top of that
fence. And it varies a little bit, because the fence is, obviously, not level. I happen to be
at the highest point of the subdivision, so it's a little higher for me. Appears to be a
couple feet lower in some other places as the property -- the property changes.
Bernt: Madam Mayor, follow up. So, if you're sitting in the back of your porch, you're
only talking about seeing the back of the fence right? You're not -- so, you wouldn't --
wouldn't have a view if you --
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White: If you -- if you sit down on the porch you get -- your view is more obstructed,
because the fence is there.
Bernt: Right.
White: But if you just stand in your backyard or on your back portion and that patios --
they are all concrete patios behind the fence, so if I am standing there -- or standing
inside your house looking out your kitchen window, you see the expanse now looking
over at Meridian Road and Victory Road across there. If this were put there we will see
the top of the building across the way and maybe the top of a couple trees and no more.
Bernt: Okay. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Johnson: Madam Mayor, the last sign-in is Bret Hormuth.
De Weerd: Good evening. Thank you for joining us. If you will, please, state your
name and address for the record.
Hormuth: It's Bret Hormuth and I live at 2985 South Andros Way here in Meridian.
Madam Mayor, Council Members, thank you. This is all new information to me. I just
found out about this subdivision and, you know, my -- what I want to say, really, is
coinciding with the members of the, you know, neighboring subdivision. If you look at
the plot map, the house that I reside in has that very small piece of white on it. It's in the
Observation Point Subdivision. I also have a completely unobstructed view of Victory
Greens and I think in addition to what the gentleman prior to me had stated, I was
uninformed of a neighborhood meeting. I was not notified or invited. I don't know if it's
because my subdivision does not directly border that fence behind and I don't know if
that was, you know, by design or anything of that nature.
De Weerd: No. The noticing requirements are 300 feet.
Hormuth: Okay.
De Weerd: But it should have been on NextDoor if you're a NextDoor subscriber.
Hormuth: I'm not. I'm not and I was -- you know, with -- with respect was not aware that
that would be a necessary, you know, app on my phone to be a part of. I am not a
technological wizard and, really, it's not -- not what I excel at, but, you know, my
experience in my home is I also paid a lot premium. I am also concerned about the
height restrictions or requirements to this development and I want to be informed going
forward. That's just about all I have to say. So, thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any questions? Thank you. That is those that indicated
they would like to provide testimony. Is there anyone who wishes to provide testimony
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that didn't indicate that? Yes, ma'am. Thank you for joining us. If you will, please, state
your name and address for the record.
D.White: I would like to say thank you for all being here this evening. My name is
Denise White. I live at 201 East Observation Drive and I agree with the gentleman that
spoke -- all of them that spoke before me. I have those same concerns. An additional
concern I have is in some of the plans I have seen, as my husband's downloaded it for
me, it talks about light industrial and that's a totally different thing than having
commercial -- little office buildings and I wanted to know what that's going to entail,
whether I'm going to be having car detailing, painting facilities down below me, having
fumes. Just what it is going to entail for light industrial.
De Weerd: Okay. We will ask the applicant to -- to help fill in those questions.
D.White: Okay. Thank you very much.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Any other testimony? Okay. Would the applicant like to
respond? Oh, I'm sorry. Was there someone else? Oh. I'm sorry I didn't see you.
Well, that's all right. Thank you for being here. If you will, please, state your name and
address for the record.
Arnold: It's Jilene Arnold. I live at 195 East Observation Drive. I'm also part of that
neighborhood that backs up to it and paid the premium lot fee to have that lot and my
concern echoes a lot of that as well with the height of it and I'm losing that view. I also
last minute posted information about this meeting on our Facebook group for HOA and
multiple members of our neighborhood, who live within 300 feet of this structure, were
not given postcards about it and I went on city records and I scrolled through the 85
scanned in postcards and a large majority of our neighborhood did not receive them. A
few went out to like Middleton and Kuna and different HOA companies, but a large
number of our neighborhood members did not hear about this meeting until late last
night and were unable to come. I also have a concern about the micro path connecting
into our neighborhood. I'm not sure how I feel about a public walkway that will go up
and into the neighborhood, because it comes in between yards, which have low fence
lines and it just feels a little -- so, I think I would like to have that issue addressed as
well as we get more information about the plans going forward.
De Weerd: Thank you. Mr. Clerk, will you, please, talk about our public noticing. What
is required by law, what we do over and above and -- since that has come up a couple
of times.
Johnson: Absolutely. I'm going through the property owner list now and as you know
that is listed by the Ada county assessor, the actual property owner. So, in the case that
somebody is in Kuna or Middleton, they are listed as the property owner with the
assessor, so if someone happens to be renting or it may be in a family trust, it may go to
the address that basically receives the tax notices. So, the city requires a notice mailed
to anyone within 300 feet of the property line, according to the Ada county assessor's
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ownership log. The applicant has to post on the site at least two locations noticing that
the -- that there is a public hearing about it and, then, we are also required to post in the
newspaper, which we do at least 14 days prior to the date of hearing. In addition to that
we do post on NextDoor. We post it on our website. And, then, we on some cases
send a second notice. In this case we actually noticed for 10/15, because we did miss
the first notice and this is one we continued from before. So, we do the website and
NextDoor are the things we do in addition and, then, there are three other things
required as well.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Clerk. Okay. If there is no further testimony -- no -- any
anyone else who would like to testify? I would ask the applicant to respond.
Stewart: Thank you, Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: Your time is already up.
Stewart: Sorry.
De Weerd: No. I'm -- I'm kidding.
Stewart: Thank you very much, Madam Mayor and Council Members. Actually, it's a
beautiful neighborhood and I completely understand their concerns, but I was very
grateful for Joel White. He was the second gentleman that came up and he -- he went
out there and measured and he said, you know, that if it got higher than 20 feet it might
obscure his view. Well, the building that we put up there, the flex space buildings, are
20 feet. I think they are like 20 feet and a couple inches. Something like that. So,
that's wonderful. It is a flat roof and it really -- it really shouldn't obscure the view. I
think that that embankment is closer to like 15 feet. It's pretty steep out there. So,
these flex based buildings are actually single stories with a mezzanine. So, most --
although it looks like a two story, most of the windows on the front are just dummy
windows. Most people will just use it as a single story and, then, you can have like a loft
mezzanine up there. But they are kind of squat buildings and there are -- they are
around 20 feet. So, hopefully, it really won't affect their views that much and Mr. Lasher,
Randy Lasher, he came to the neighborhood meeting and I -- I would hate to think that
we didn't give them the information that he asked for. I personally recall -- and it was
back in July, so I can't -- I may not be accurate, but I think I e-mailed with him two and
three times and I can see his renderings in his hands and I'm pretty sure I might have
sent him the building renderings, so -- but I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong about that,
but I thought I was trying to give them as much information as possible. And Tom
Peterson might have told him that the buildings were around 24 feet, but, actually, they
are 20, so -- and to answer the last question about what is the flex space building, it's
actually -- it's not so much light industrial, but you can use it for kind of a commercial
light industrial application. It will have a beautiful retail front for customers that come in,
but the backside you're able to like bring in trucks and load and unload a little bit, like if
you were a carpet shop or something. But there will not be any automotive shops or
anything like that. There is healthcare business there. Retail business there. Office
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building there. We are not going to have chop shops and that kind of thing there. It's a
-- it's a nice commercial project.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Bernt: Roughly square footage of -- of each unit?
Stewart: The whole building is 36,000 square feet and I think -- and it's -- it's modular.
You know, I don't know. Maybe it's 12,000 or so. I knew at one time, but I don't know
off the top of my head. They can -- you can actually kind of buy them or rent them in --
almost like ordered in pods and, then, you can choose to put the mezzanine loft in or
not and, then, it's just a single story. But that's why it's kind of squat. It's not as tall as a
typical two story.
De Weerd: And this is strictly commercial, not industrial, not light industrial, just --
Stewart: Commercial.
De Weerd: I wanted you to clarify that, because I hadn't heard light industrial in any of
the conversation. In this you envision a mix of office, retail, and health -- healthcare
services.
Stewart: Right.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any other questions?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I appreciate those comments and it sounds like in the hearing the concerns of
the neighbors that -- maybe you already contemplated this, but a provision of a modified
DA could include a height limitation on those parcels on that northwest that you're
referencing. That no parcels can -- or none of those projects can exceed 21 feet, for
example. It sounds consistent with your existing plan, but it also gives the
neighborhood the assurances that they want the cap on that height.
Stewart: Yeah. That -- I think that would work. I think it's a little bit over 20 feet. Just a
few inches.
Borton: I wonder if --
Stewart: Before that was settled I would want to double double make sure that I got
those correct from the architect, but I had to find that out a few weeks ago and it was
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right on 20 feet. We prefer not to have that. It does limit our options. But the site plan
is showing those flex plans -- flex plans and that's our height.
Borton: Okay. Thanks.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions? Thank you.
Stewart: Thank you.
De Weerd: Oh, I don't know if it's a question for you or probably Kevin. About the micro
path. A micro path will connect with a pathway I assume that is already in the
neighborhood that's -- that's adjoining this?
Holmes: Correct. Madam Mayor, Members of Council, there is a pathway -- if you can
see my cursor -- right through these two lots here. Right now it's a micro pathway to
nowhere and I imagine people probably cut through there and -- to get to Meridian Road
regardless. As staff when we see a micro pathway to nowhere within -- our pathways
master plan does show a pathway along Meridian Road. So, when you see those two it
-- it makes sense to us to have a recommendation to connect the two.
De Weerd: Thank you. Unless you have anything to add.
Stewart: No.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Stewart: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any questions for staff, the applicant, or any of those that
provided testimony?
Borton: No questions, Madam Mayor. I will just -- just some comment on some
thoughts as we go through the -- the application materials and hear the comments of
the public and the applicant. This is a common situation where we step into and
sometimes the public steps into a project that is sort of flowing from previous approvals
and it's a parcel that has some entitlements and some ability to do some development
on it and we -- we have a chance at these requests to modify a development agreement
to try and perhaps capture some ability to improve the compatibility of a development
like this with its neighbors. So, some of the considerations that -- that were important in
reviewing this one -- the access review and ITD and the right-in, right-out component,
trying to ensure safety. There is the connectivity of the micro pathway. Trying to
facilitate some opportunities for individuals to get out of their vehicle. It's part of our --
our larger pathway connectivity perhaps to some of these area restaurants or shops
from the community is something that we have been trying to promote. So, that was
important as well. One of the elements of the 2006 development agreement -- in fact, it
was encouraged and it was referenced in Kevin's initial comments -- was the intent and
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the hope that some of the site design have these peaked roofs and some of these
architectural elements which are consistent with what's up on the corner, all with good
intentions, but now perhaps that type of site design creates a -- perfect. Thank you.
Seems to create a real potential for a larger obstruction of view corridors, quite frankly,
and that's an entitled right that this project could do today. Without any of our approvals
they could build that -- what we saw previously with these peaked roofs, which actually
might hinder the view more than -- than any of the neighbors want. So, then, look at
what's being proposed, which is a different design, requires us to approve a different
style that would remove these gabled -- is it gabled roofs? Peaked roofs. This flatter
concept in the lower left, which I think is a really interesting and attractive design as well
and also now seems to meet some of the concerns of the neighbors, which I find to be a
positive of the application as well. It seems to be utilizing this -- this desire to modify the
development agreement, an opportunity to create a more cohesive connection with this
community than what otherwise already could have occurred, because of what occurred
back in 2006. So, I don't know how many of the neighbors were here in 2006 for those
approvals -- probably not many. We find that a lot in our community. So, I'm supportive
of this request in light of all of those considerations and the public comment and trying
to see how they all address those concerns, I'm supportive of the request, supportive of
what's been proposed, inclusive of -- of the micro path. I think our staff's inclusion of the
pond as an amenity is a -- is a positive as well, quite frankly. I think a lot of these
developments like this will -- will certainly be very successful, which means it's busy,
which means that as employees -- and we found in other areas employees like
amenities, whether they can go walk on a path or have their lunch near a pond on a
picnic table and it just makes it a more -- kind of warm and welcoming part of the
community that we might miss the opportunity if we don't include it. So, I thought it was
a unique feature and I appreciate staff bringing it up as a way to make this place
special. So, those are my thoughts on it. Kind of the consideration of what we reviewed
and weighed that make me supportive of the application.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Borton. Any other comments? Okay. If there is nothing
further I would entertain a motion.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I will make one and see if there is some discussion. I move we close the public
hearing --
De Weerd: Just -- there is a gentleman I think who would like to -- Randy would like to
-- Mr. Lasher I think comment on a comment that the applicant made. I'm assuming.
You will need to come up here. Otherwise we can't get you on the public record. Thank
you.
Lasher: Thank you.
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De Weerd: If you will, please, state your name one more time.
Lasher: Randy Lasher.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Lasher: So, I wanted to respond to the representative's claim that she provided the
images for me. My -- my e-mail communication with her was requesting that she bring
some renderings showing the structure to that meeting where we saw the plot plan and
it was -- it was an attempt to get information and when we were at the meeting I asked
her were you able to bring renderings, because there were no renderings there, and her
response was, no, I forgot. So, those renderings that I brought up here were provided
by Mr. White, who went onto their website and printed them down. I'm not going to
suggest that there is a -- that there is a conspiracy to withhold information, I won't go
that far, but it just does seem like as neighbors who could be affected by this
construction that there is not a lot of information coming our way voluntarily and that we
-- we shouldn't have to, you know, go digging into something that -- that -- if the
developer wants us to all be in harmony, let's -- let's show -- show your cards, show us
what you're building. The other thing I wanted to point out is in that initial meeting we --
I asked specifically, as did my wife Anita, well, how high do you think the structure will
be? And multiple -- in multiple responses it was somewhere between 24 and 27 feet.
Hearing now that it's 21 is interesting, because the attorney who was there representing
the development, said specifically 24 to 27 feet. So, again, maybe -- maybe this is a
time to pause the project, get the developer to do some measurements, hold a meeting
with the homeowners whose homes -- this is going to be our last home, who paid lot
premiums anywhere from ten to fourteen thousand dollars, whose views are now
affected by this. I appreciate the Council's design idea, but I just feel like this developer
isn't being forthright with all the information that we should have figuring that this is
backing up to our properties. I'm not trying to be difficult, not trying to be a
troublemaker, but if the information is provided to us we will go along with it if it makes
sense.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: Mr. Lasher, I really do appreciate your comments and I appreciate your concern.
I don't think that there -- I think -- I think they are well deserved for sure. But my
question to you is -- is there anything from the applicant after she came up and re -- and
spoke that you have concerns with now?
Lasher: Yeah, there are.
Bernt: So, like she -- you heard that it's going to be under 21 feet and they are willing to
put that in the development agreement. That means that it won't be over 21 feet. They
can't. It's --
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Lasher: And what -- does that include the -- the gables, the roof lines, the air
conditioning, as Mr. White pointed out? Is that an overall height that will not be
exceeded or will there be -- will there be allowances for certain things?
Bernt: Madam Mayor. I can't speak for her. She would have to come back up and
respond, but -- we will have her come back up. But I was under the assumption that
that's what she said, but she can speak for herself.
Lasher: Okay. And one last point is if we are looking for conformity, if the idea is to -- to
master plan Meridian, which is one of the reasons we live here, is the whole master
planned philosophy coming from one before, it works really well. It protects our property
values. It makes it a great place to live. If conformity is -- is -- is top of mind, if we look
at the industrial -- or we look at the commercial center on the opposite side of that
corner, they are single story. They are single story office -- doctor's offices, dentist
offices. There is no second story in that entire property adjacent to this -- to this project.
So, really, if we want to work conformity, let's limit this structure to single story and, then,
have the same matching conformity as the property that was there first.
De Weerd: I would say, though, the pitch of the roof, you -- some of those buildings --
and I don't know what the Legacy Fuel and Feed building's height is, but a single story
house is at least 20 feet tall with your roof and so that's what they are saying their --
their building will be with the flat roof. Probably across the street they have some pitch
-- high pitch on some of those roofs. It could be larger -- it could be taller than the 20
feet. I think what Councilman Borton was getting to is with this new design you have a
flat design, if -- if they are going to put a condition that they can't exceed the 21 feet, you
do have an assurance that that's not going to exceed that -- that height.
Lasher: Okay. And so when the representative said 24 to 27 feet, that's not what --
what the -- the designs that gets approved -- the designs that will end up being the final
approval will be under -- 20 feet or under correct?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: This kind of got off the rails. The intent of the provision in the development
agreement that was referenced is that it would be under 21 feet, which is a right that
would benefit the community that does not exist today. Getting into a debate on what
was or wasn't said by you or by the public to the applicant or the applicant to the public
at a public meeting -- candidly this isn't really helpful to try and resolve what would be
best for this application, quite frankly, and I don't want to besmirch you or the applicant
-- there was a miscommunication. I'm quite certain after this -- whatever happens today
you probably will go in the hallway and talk and exchange phone numbers and the
applicant seems to be more than willing to discuss relevant going forward, but the
request of the public was to have a height limitation. The applicant, to their credit, has
conceded to abide by a height limitation. It seems like we -- we have had a good
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meeting of the minds there and the development agreement will now have a binding
requirement that protects all the current owners and future owners in perpetuity that
there is a limitation on the height of all those parcels, which didn't otherwise exist. That
sounds pretty good.
Lasher: And I appreciate that, Councilman, very much. Kind of put me back on ground
level. It was the inconsistencies with the lack of information that maybe got me a little
spun up. In representing the HOA I felt like we should just be clear. So, thank you.
Borton: Got you. Thanks.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Borton: Just one fact within the Legacy building, there is kind of a -- a second story
office area, but my question for Mr. Nary is just kind of as a reminder. What -- what
things are we as a Council allowed to consider when -- when deciding whether to
approve or -- or deny the modification?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Palmer, I guess that's a
pretty broad open-ended question and it is a contractual agreement. So, basically, they
are asking for some changes that -- you don't have to agree to any of it. You can
certainly agree to what they have requested, which is a height limitation. For the
public's purpose we don't limit stories, we limit heights. So, we don't -- stories really
aren't really relevant in the building context. It's really based on height. But, otherwise,
you know, the uses are based on the zone, so they are limiting some uses on -- in that
zone. You can certainly agree to that. But I don't know if I'm answering your question.
Is there a specific thing you are wanting?
Palmer: Madam Mayor? I know there is -- there is different situations in which we are
not allowed to consider. For example, adjoining property values in making the
decision --
Nary: Oh.
Palmer: -- that kind of thing. What -- what -- what have we heard from the public that --
that legally we shouldn't be considering, if any?
Nary: So -- okay. Now I understand your question. So, Madam Mayor, Members of the
Council, for example, you have heard a lot of testimony about paying for a view corridor
or a view for these properties. That's -- that's an agreement between the property seller
and the buyer and the city is not a party to that. So, unless there is something on a
deed restriction that restricts the property that's being asked, like this Mussell corner
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property, there is a deed restriction to it. That, again, is incumbent on the property
owner. That's not a city's consideration. So, whether they paid an additional lot price
for that for the view, I don't know what that means. That's not something the city can
consider in making your determination. I don't know if that was a view to the front or a
view to the rear, but, in reality, it doesn't make any difference for our approval or
agreement to this development agreement. Does that answer your question?
De Weerd: And the -- the current DA doesn't have any height restriction in it at this
point.
Nary: Madam Mayor, I'm not certain. I don't believe so. And I think all that was allowed
is whatever is allowed in that zone, which I think are higher than 21 feet.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Yes. You are always allowed the last word. But don't
talk until you get to the microphone.
Stewart: Madam Mayor --
De Weerd: If you will, please, state your name again.
Stewart: Roberta Stewart.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Stewart: Thank you, Madam Mayor and Council Members, for letting me come back up
again. I am just going off my memory. I -- that those -- if I were to look at the building,
it's 20 feet, but that may not -- when you look at the architectural plans. But there are
mechanical units and other things that will pull -- and they are spotty, you know, on top
-- that are going to pull it above 20 feet and I can't even say for sure that I -- I have it
right on, but it's -- I'm pretty sure it's pretty -- it's closed, but I would hate to go back to
my boss and tell him that off my memory I got us stuck at a limitation. It's because I
was put on the spot and I -- I -- nobody showed up at the neighborhood meeting, except
for four people. I didn't know we would, you know, have such a height controversy
tonight and I was not prepared with the architectural plans to tell you the exact height.
They are, basically, single story, but they definitely could go over with mechanical, you
know, and so that would be a severe limitation. These are a prototype plan that we
would like to put in other places. They are architecturally already done, just kind of put
them on different sites, and if -- if it is a little more than 21 feet, then, it won't work and
all those -- those wonderful little flex sites will be down the tubes and I will probably lose
my job. But my memory is just --
De Weerd: Well, we certainly don't want you to lose your job. Would you like us to --
Stewart: Well, hopefully, I won't. I was kidding, but you never know.
De Weerd: Would you like us to continue this?
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Stewart: Well, I think it would be very dangerous for me to agree to a height that I can't
say -- I don't have committed to memory. I just can't say. I don't have the plans in front
of me and it was quite a few weeks ago when I looked at them. So, I think that's the
only thing I can do. I do want to remind Council Members that we -- you know, we have
-- we can go much higher in the C-G zone and the Legacy is probably much higher than
that, too, so -- and we are trying to accommodate them as much as possible. It might
be even just two or three feet more than an average two story -- you know, less than a
two story building even. So, I would hate to give up what we have a right to do and if
we weren't trying to modify the DA, like Council Member Borton said, we could -- we
could go much higher. Much higher.
De Weerd: You could, put, then, you would have to follow the DA as written.
Stewart: And there was not a height limitation on the earlier DA, so -- so anyway -- so,
please, don't limit it to 21 feet at this point. I just -- I don't think I'm accurate enough. I
can't do that. I can't agree to that.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Stewart: Thank you.
Borton: Interesting.
De Weerd: So, Council, what would you like to do?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: So, the -- and I appreciate the concern. I -- it's understandable that it's a big
deal for you. It was obviously -- at least to my mind a big deal for the consideration of
the approval and it's very important to your neighbors, which you -- it's probably
important to you and your client to be good neighbors with them. So, I think the Mayor's
suggestion of a continuance -- I can't imagine it takes a week, quite frankly, to
understand what those height limitations are, but I think it's really important to -- to have
language in there that has a cap that gives the applicant and the neighboring
community that certainty that what you are describing -- and, quite frankly, this might be
a non-issue. You might find out that it is 21 feet and we are all good and we can
proceed next week, if that's the way the Council wants to go. My thought is bump it a
week, let you answer the question. I guess the public hearing would stay open for the
issue of height. We don't necessarily need to rehash the whole application, but that's an
option for us if we want to do that.
De Weerd: Okay. Any further questions? Comments?
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
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De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: The -- so, if I'm interpreting our code right, the -- the maximum building height
in C-G zoning is 65 feet. So, what they are proposing building is nowhere near 65 feet.
In fact, the applicant has asked us to make a decision based on -- of what is allowed
within the zoning and we can continue to continue to continue what we do a lot of here
or we can make a decision based on all of the logic that you propose and also the fact
that legally we can't even consider the -- the viewship purchase that took place at the
time that they were -- that the lots were purchased. I mean what's being proposed here
is beyond a reasonable -- I wish we could just make a decision and move on. Madam
Mayor, then, with that I would move that we close the public hearing on Item 6-B.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion to close the public hearing. Do I have a second?
Okay.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: I guess we get to bring everybody back together again and waste more of your
time. Appreciate it, though.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I don't think continuing -- continuing to limit a discussion to try and address the
interest of the public as the applicant's proposed is a waste of their time if it gets us to
the right result. It's an opportunity to make this blend. So, I will make a motion that we
continue Item 7-B to October 22nd and keep the public hearing open for the limited
purpose of addressing the height condition cap that could be placed upon this as part of
a DA modification.
Little Roberts: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second. All those in favor of the motion, please,
indicate by saying aye. Those opposed say nay?
Palmer: Nay.
De Weerd: Okay. The ayes have it. So, we will continue this public hearing until next
week.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE NAY. TWO ABSENT.
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C. Public Hearing for Idaho Fine Arts Academy (H-2019-0088) by
West Ada School District, Located at 915 E . Central Dr.
1. Request: Rezone of 18.96 acres from the I-L (Light
Industrial) zoning district to the C-G (General Retail and
Service District).
De Weerd: Okay. Item 6-C is a public hearing for H-2019-0088. I will open this public
hearing with staff comments.
Holmes: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of Council. This application before you is
for the Idaho Fine Arts Academy rezone application. This site consists of 18.96 acres of
land, currently zoned I-L, located at 915 East Central Drive, just north of I-84. So, this is
adjacent to the joint ISU-Renaissance High School campus to the east. You have the
Idaho State Police campus to the north on the other side of central and office uses to
the west. The current Comprehensive Plan future land use map designation for this
area is commercial. The applicant is requesting a rezone of the property from I-L, which
is light industrial, to C-G, general retail and service. The current I-L zoning does not
allow educational institution uses, while in the C-G they are a principally permitted use.
The southern lot is currently approved as a parking lot for ISU and you may have
noticed it's currently under construction. West Ada School District has submitted this
conceptual plan for the Fine Arts Academy on the northeast corner of the northern lot.
Staff is supportive of the overall use, but the specifics of this site layout and building
design will be reviewed through the certificate of zoning compliance and design review
process. So, typically, the city does require a development agreement with any rezone
application, but in this case staff is recommending that none be executed here for a
couple reasons. First, the proposed C-G zoning does match up with all the surrounding
properties. So, even in the case that the school district plans were to fall through, any
development would have to comply with standard UDC requirements. This, obviously,
limits uses to those already deemed compatible with the commercial areas and/or would
require a conditional use approval. In addition, the Comprehensive Plan does direct
staff to, quote, look at ways to streamline the permitting and land use review process for
approval of new school facilities, end quote. So, by foregoing the DA we have
eliminated the potential for the school district to need to come back to the Council
potentially multiple times as they progress through the -- developing the facilities on this
site. The city will still review all proposed developments through the CZC and design
review process to ensure all code and design standards are met. The P&Z Commission
recommended approval. A quick summary of the hearing -- really only had Jacob
Rivard -- Rivard, excuse me, speaking as representative for the applicant in favor and
there was no other public testimony and, really, the only issue that was discussed was if
a DA should be required and the Commission was of the opinion that one would not be
needed. There was no changes to staff recommendations and there is no outstanding
issues for City Council on this one. So, staff will stand for any questions.
Borton: Thank you, Kevin. Council, any questions? Is the applicant here? Go ahead
and state your name for the record.
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Rivard: Council Members, Jacob Rivard with Hummel Architects. 2785 Bogus Basin
Drive. I'm representing West Ada School District. You know, there is really not too
much more to say than what Kevin already stated. We are in the very beginning stages
of this process. We are requesting a rezone, so that we can bring this needed -- Idaho
Fine Arts is currently located in Eagle and bring it to more a central location within the
school bounds -- or the school district and allow access -- easier access to multiple
students, as opposed to where it is currently, and grow the capacity as well. It also
provides us to have a synergy between the existing Renaissance High School, which is
mainly STEM focused. We are really excited for the opportunity in which to be able to
connect and join the different arts and sciences together. Of course, that's not my job
as an architect, but I know it's something that they are looking forward to working
towards. With that I will be happy to take any questions.
Borton: Thanks, Jacob. Appreciate you being here. Council, any question?
Bernt: No, sir.
Borton: No questions.
Rivard: Thank you.
Borton: This is a public hearing. There is not -- excuse me.
Johnson: Mr. President, no one has signed in.
Borton: No one has signed in. All right. No one has signed in to testify, but it's a public
hearing. Anyone here in the audience who has a desire to testify, give any comment,
ask questions? Seeing none, the applicant gets the last word, you get the first word.
Any -- any parting comments? None? Okay. Council, what's your pleasure?
Bernt: Mr. President?
Borton: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: I move that we close the public hearing for H-2019-0088.
Little Roberts: Second.
Borton: It's been moving and seconded to close the public hearing on Item 7-C. All
those in favor say aye. The public hearing is closed.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. TWO ABSENT.
Bernt: Mr. President?
Borton: Mr. Bernt.
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Bernt: Madam Mayor. Both. Madam Mayor and Mr. President at the same time. I
move that we approve 6-C, H-2019-0088.
Little Roberts: Second.
Borton: It's been moved and seconded to approve Item 7-C. Any discussion? Seeing
none, Mr. Clerk.
Bernt, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. TWO ABSENT.
D. Public Hearing for Nick Estates Subdivision (H-2019-0086) by
LR Geomatics, PLLC, Located at 1180 N. Ten Mile Rd.
1. Request: To combine preliminary/final plat consisting of 4
building lots on 1.4 acres of land in the R-4 zoning district.
De Weerd: Okay. Item 7-C is -- or 7-D. Sorry. Public hearing on H-2019-0086. This
applicant is asking for a continuance due to a posting error. Mr. Nary, does this
necessitate reposting then?
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I think Mr. Johnson can explain the
posting issue.
De Weerd: Okay.
Johnson: Madam Mayor, Members of Council, this was a -- an error with the affidavit of
posting we did not receive in time, so they have reposted it in time for the next hearing
date if you choose to continue that. So, it doesn't require -- all the notices were done
except for the posting on the site and we believe it was actually done just there was no
affidavit showing that. So, they have updated their sign and are requesting to move to
the 22nd with your approval.
De Weerd: Is there anyone here for this item? Okay. Council?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Seeing nobody present for this item, I move we continue Item 7-D, H-2019-
0086 -- to October 22nd as requested.
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Little Roberts: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to continue this. All those in favor say aye.
Okay. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. TWO ABSENT.
Item E: Public Hearing for City of Meridian Business Hours
De Weerd: Okay. Item 6-E is a public hearing for the City of Meridian business hours.
Council, we have had comment on this a couple of times and so we continue this. We
thought we would have a full Council. Is there anyone here who would like to provide
testimony on this item? Okay. Council, what is your desire on this?
Borton: Madam Mayor, any additional feedback received by your office since last
week's hearing?
De Weerd: No.
Borton: Okay.
Bernt: Madam Mayor, question. Did we receive any notice that we had received some
input on the NextDoor post. But did we receive any information -- we send out like a
survey monkey to our employees to see what their thoughts are about changing the
hours of operation?
De Weerd: No. I -- I believe you asked that last week and the -- or the week before.
We -- we did have each of our departments talk in staff meetings over the summer and
into the fall about these hours seeking feedback and each of our departments have
come back saying they can make this work for a pilot and we will bring feedback back to
see how it's applied.
Bernt: Madam Mayor, follow up. Refresh my memory, what are the departments that
will -- where this pilot program will take place?
De Weerd: This would be all business hours for public facilities.
Bernt: Okay.
De Weerd: I think the only department was the water department. There was some
concern and they said we would just keep our doors open until 5:00 on Friday and,
Warren, do you have any comment?
Stewart: Madam Mayor, Members of Council, I believe that, yeah, the two utilities,
water and wastewater, had some concerns, but they have shift hour work on a lot of the
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things that they do anyway and so we -- we would make it work, but I think they -- they
might decide to stay on the normal schedule for at least the office hours.
De Weerd: And I think it was stated to me probably just water at this point. Any other
questions? Okay.
Borton: Madam Mayor, action now or action --
De Weerd: Action -- if you would like to do it now it allows us some time to
communicate with the public. If the decision of Council was to approve a pilot project
for November and December to come back with a wrap up to the newly electeds to see
if it would continue as a permanent practice.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I defer to my -- my colleagues' preference. I'm supportive of it whether it's
today or it's next week. I think there is going to be good. I think there is going to be
bad. We are going to learn a lot. We are trying to do something different. I think one
takeaway -- my -- my best guesstimate, I think the comments that express concern are
all well founded. There might be challenges. I think some opportunities when the public
sees hours outside of 8:00 to 5:00 would be a benefit that we can certainly develop,
being able to come here after 5:00 o'clock. So, I'm supportive this week or next week.
As long as we track the day that -- be really honest about the stuff that doesn't work
and, then, if it's a disaster we -- we tried something innovative and we end it. And if it's
great, then, great and we are all better for it and our public benefits. So, there is very
little risk in trying. I think it's worth it.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: The only -- the only concern that I have is changing the hours of operation for
the entire city as a pilot program. I -- I don't mind, you know, seeing how it works
maybe with maybe a department or two, you know, to see how it functions. I think it
might be confusing to our public to be changing office hours, you know, from 8:00 to
5:00 -- or, excuse me, 9:00 to 5:00 and, then, 8:00 to 6:00 and that doesn't work, going
back to 8:00 to 5:00 and so I would be in support of maybe one or two departments just
to see how it goes in those departments, but I can't wrap my arms around doing a pilot
program for the entire city.
De Weerd: I think what -- what we came to the conclusion of is you -- you can't do it
halfway. There are support departments that, then, would never be allowed to try -- try
it, because they have to be here when employees are -- during regular business hours.
That is why we thought the best route would be trying to pilot something different and
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see how that works. Otherwise, it's not doable, because you can't give that opportunity
to all.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor, I am supportive of doing the pilot project, but I was here
for a couple hours Friday afternoon and I was surprised by the number of people that I
did see coming in, so I was wondering if there was any way to get like a comment box
or something that was substantial enough that it could be outside and come up --
because a lot of them were seniors that may not get online and send comments.
Maybe they would call. But maybe that was just an unusual Friday afternoon. But I
would like to somehow have feedback from those that came to the doors and couldn't
get in.
De Weerd: Certainly we can look at bringing them back if -- if the decision were tonight
we will bring back our plan of action next week and as we start to inform the public and
post it. I -- I don't know -- we do have the comment box in the lobby -- how we could
secure that. I'm not sure. But we will certainly find out. Thank you.
Borton: Madam Mayor, maybe that makes sense then. We have got kind of a divided
Council and we are sort of short staffed. Council Woman Little Roberts' question -- I
think a suggestion is a good one, too, and there is a little more data on how we could
use that to kind of capture the goods and the bads from public feedback -- might be the
better decision date on this.
De Weerd: Okay. Well, then, we will put this back on -- do you want to keep it open for
public hearing or just put it on for action?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Keep it on for public hearing would be the preference in the off chance
someone shows up and provides testimony. We haven't had a whole heck of a lot, but
couldn't hurt to keep it open.
Item F: Public Hearing for Ordinance 19-1855: An Ordinance Prohibiting
Use of Compression Brakes Within the City of Meridian
De Weerd: Okay. Very good. Item 6-F is a public hearing for Ordinance 19-1855. We
will open the public hearing on this item and, sorry, Mr. Nary, who is presenting on this?
Nary: Madam Mayor, this is a request that we tabled a few months ago to bring back.
There was a presentation we made a few months ago about this ordinance. Direction
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was to have it vetted by the Transportation Commission and it was. It actually was
vetted twice and the first time I believe they were -- they were fine with it. I don't think
they had a great objection. They did speak about it at their last meeting this month and
there was some expressed concern that it really wasn't necessary by the Commission
and so they were not supportive of -- of this moving forward. The purpose of it is is
basically, if you recall, this was originally raised by the highway district. There are signs
within our county that indicate when compression brakes are not allowed and the
highway district puts them up in communities where they have an ordinance that
prohibits to use the compression brakes. Meridian doesn't have an ordinance like this.
There is -- there is a sign about compression brakes as you enter from Highway 16 on
Chinden, because Ada county has an ordinance. There are ones in Star. There are
ones in Eagle. There are ones in Kuna and Boise. So, surrounding us are signs from
various communities. But there isn't one specifically related to Meridian. So, the
highway district inquired if that was something the city wished to do. We had
discussions. We did have -- I think the police commented, again, from an enforcement
standpoint -- they can be difficult from an enforcement standpoint to enforce. We did
have, again, some comments from the public a few months back that, basically, live
along some of our corridors that were supportive, but, again, it's really a difficult
enforcement tool. The one we have in front of you was similar to other communities
and, again, the chief is here and Lieutenant Ford is here if you want other questions
from police, but that's how it came before you initially. It was set over to -- to later in the
fall to have this discussion again and basically that's all the info I have.
De Weerd: Okay. Chief.
Lavey: Madam Mayor, Council, I didn't come here tonight to testify and this, but since
I'm here I may as well. As you recall a couple months ago when this was discussed we
did have some concerns in regards to enforcement. We have been able to absorb
some of those concerns and I will just share those with you -- is we would sure like to
see consistency across the valley. So, if the ordinance is proposed it's consistent with
the other cities, then, we could support that. But we want to be realistic in this is are we
trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist or is it a small problem, because, frankly, the
only way that we can enforce this code is if we witness the violation. A citizen can't
witness the violation and report it to us. The other thing is the difficulty of being able to
identify a driver is -- is unrealistic at best because of the height. So, the only way that
we could actually write a ticket for this is to have an officer witness it themselves. So, if
we are lucky enough to actually see it at the time that it is occurring we can do
something about it. All the other times we can't. So, our hopes would be that any sign
that's posted would get immediate compliance by merely seeing the sign, educating
themselves, and realize, oh, I can't use this within our city and that was originally the
thought process is that perhaps that's all that's needed. But in order for us to put a sign
up in the city we need to have some teeth to back it to and so this ordinance would do
that. So, I'm just here to answer any questions that may come up. We have some
reservations, but we will move forward on anything that Council proposes.
De Weerd: Thank you, Chief. Council, any questions?
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Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: The neighboring -- do all of our neighboring cities have this ordinance, chief?
Lavey: Madam Mayor, Councilman Bernt, I believe -- I'm going to have to defer to Mr.
Nary, but I do believe that that is the case. Eagle, Kuna, Boise for sure. And I'm not
aware of whether -- whether Garden City has or not, so --
Bernt: Okay.
De Weerd: I know Caldwell does. I saw the sign last weekend when I was in Caldwell.
Lavey: Madam Mayor, it -- they have signs up. Whether there is an ordinance to back
them is the difference -- is the difference.
De Weerd: I didn't use my compression brake.
Lavey: Yeah. Because there is -- there is some -- there is some cities that have the
signs up that don't have an ordinance to back it. Not -- not in the immediate valley, but
it's common.
De Weerd: Any other questions? Okay. Thank you, chief. Mr. Clerk, any signed up to
testify?
Johnson: Yes. Yes, Madam Mayor. Two people have signed in and one wishes to
testify and the first is Bob and Louise Jones.
De Weerd: Good evening. Thank you for sticking around and joining us. If you will,
please, state your name for the record.
Jones: It's Bob and Louise Jones. Our address is 3483 West Sand Wedge Street in
Meridian.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Jones: Our purpose here is to just show our support of having an ordinance for the
compression brakes -- to ban the compression brakes except for emergency purposes
and whatever. We have a lot of houses and apartments that are popping out of the
ground all along these major thoroughfares and we -- we live right off of Chinden.
That's a major thoroughfare. Over the last couple three years I bet the traffic has
increased triple. Well, that means trucks are also going down that and that means that
the compression brakes -- I think they are always using compression brakes. That's
what it sounds like. And when we are in our -- on our patio in the backyard you can't
hardly even have a conversation because there is so much compression brakes. You
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know, every truck has to stop at a signal light like anybody else, but the compression
brakes and the usage of the engine brakes is very hard, very loud -- very very loud.
B.Jones: I would like to address with this -- I don't know who this last gentleman was up
here. He didn't introduce himself, but --
De Weerd: He's our chief of police.
B.Jones: Oh. Okay.
De Weerd: Chief Lavey.
B.Jones: But he was talking about this ordinance being unenforceable. All of our traffic
laws are not enforceable unless you have eyes on the violation. This shouldn't be any
different than that as far as I am concerned. We rely more on the public to obey the
laws, rather than, you know, try to prevent them and the other thing is -- what was the
other thing? We would just like to see some signs. I -- there has been talk about signs.
I haven't seen any on Highway 16 that talk about an ordinance. There are some signs
scattered around the community that say no compression brakes, but there are no --
there is no ordinance attached to it, which are meaningless. But if we had one like --
our -- our house backs up on Chinden and Ten Mile and there is a traffic light there and
these trucks are stopping all the time of course. If we could just get some signs up I
think it would be a big deterrent and I talked to -- oh, a year ago I talked to ITD about
putting signs up, because it's a U.S. highway, figure, well -- yeah. And they said they
would be willing to do that, but they would need an ordinance to put on a sign.
De Weerd: And I think that is why we are having the conversation now is the highway
district did ask if we wanted to have signs up and in order to do so we needed to
consider an ordinance.
B.Jones: Okay.
De Weerd: So, you -- you put something in motion and thank you for doing that.
Jones: I guess I would be interested in knowing what the process will be from here,
because just finding out that there is a public hearing -- I guess there was a previous
public hearing, but I didn't know anything about it. So, there will be more hearings on
this? Is this it? I mean are you going to pass whether or not you're going to have the
ordinance tonight?
De Weerd: The Council -- certainly we would look for direction from them on making a
decision tonight or if they are not prepared, what additional information they would
need.
Jones: Okay. All right.
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De Weerd: Thank you for joining us.
B.Jones: Okay. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Is there anyone else who would like to provide testimony on
this item?
Bernt: Wow. Mr. Hood.
Hood: Good evening, Mayor and Council. My name is Caleb Hood, I'm the planning
division manager here at 33 East Broadway Avenue. I'm here representing the
Transportation Commission this evening. As Mr. Nary mentioned, this item has been
discussed twice by them. The most recent action was on the 7th of this month. So, just
last Monday. They voted five to two directing me to address you and recommend to you
that you not vote in favor of this ordinance. It's not clear what the purpose is. The
ordinance doesn't define brakes and the enforcement issue was also some of their
concerns. I do want to thank Ms. Kane and extend that thanks. She was at our first
meeting where we talked about this and she has addressed some of the things in the
draft ordinance that the commission asked her to. So, this version is better, but, again,
at the end of the day they voted five to two to recommend to you that you not address
this -- or not adopt this ordinance. So, talk about muffled versus unmuffled being a big
reason why and the definition of air brakes. Air brakes and, then, really the issue is the
noise of that and the muffled part of that. I'm not going to get into a whole discussion.
It's on YouTube if you want to watch it. But, again, at the end of the day that's their
recommendation to you. But I would stand for any questions.
De Weerd: Thank you, Caleb. Council, any questions?
Hood: Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Is there anyone else who would like to provide testimony?
Chief, any additional comment?
Lavey: Madam Mayor, Council, I did recall that someone did express to me that the
way it currently is written that it would eliminate -- eliminate anybody using air brakes in
the City of Meridian and everybody knows that commercial vehicles, including school
buses, use air brakes and so we might want to pause and make sure that the wording is
correct, because they are looking at engine compression brakeage, not air brakes, and
if it's not worded correctly we may get ourselves in a situation that we can't get out of.
So, I'm not the expert there. Someone mentioned that to me. But I would want us to
take a look at the -- a good look at that read to make sure that we are not trying to make
something unlawful that is unreasonable.
Nary: Madam Mayor, I can answer that. So, Ms. Kane has gone through this a couple
times and there was a code reference in the Idaho Code that's cited in the ordinance.
So, we are comfortable that it's -- it's compliant with what could be enforced. The issues
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of what -- that she's talking about enforcement in general and the traffic division
notwithstanding, but this is the term of art and this does identify the specific type that
people are referring to and the type that trucks use. And, again, buses are -- and buses
that are public transit are excluded, so --
Lavey: Madam Mayor, Council, I think we can use some common sense there, too,
because when you use actual air brakes there is not much noise there, where the rattle
noise is what we are talking about. So, as long as it meets code I'm good with that.
De Weerd: So, I did take an opportunity to talk to some residents in Smith's Ferry this
last weekend, because we have signage along Highway 55 that you can't use
compression air brakes for a stretch of that -- that aligns with Smith's Ferry. They did
say that once those signs went up -- I don't know -- no one knew if there was an
ordinance or not, but when the signs went up the number of incidences went down. So,
it really does mirror what we heard through testimony tonight, that even the presence of
the signage does make a difference, as most people want to comply with -- with the
rules. Not everyone, but most.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: I'm curious why the ordinance allows Fire Department and public transit to still
use them.
Nary: Madam Mayor. That was the recommendation in -- in the research we had,
because, again, those are the circumstances they are being used -- at least from the
public safety side, they are being used in an emergency situation, which is exempted.
And on the public transit I think it's the same issue. These are public vehicles for public
advances and that was why they were recommended in the research to exempt those.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: But if they are allowed to be used during an emergency, then, I would imagine
that's when the fire department would be allowed to use them anyway, even if they
weren't exempted in the code, as well as public transit. I think that if -- if anytime the
government makes law, it should make itself adhere to the same laws, rather than
exempting ourselves, because brakes are expensive, so the more we use them the
more we have to replace them. Well, why should we take ourselves in consideration,
but not the private sector?
Bongiorno: So, Madam Mayor and Council Member Palmer, I would be happy to
address that. So, the last fire engine that we had that had the loud Jake brakes on it is
no longer in service. It's being used as our training apparatus. The new engines that
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we have they are nothing like the big logging trucks you hear coming down the roads
nowadays when they are going to slow down. So, when you have, you know, an 80,000
pound ladder truck coming at you, the Jake brake makes a huge difference. We are
cognizant of our community and typically when we are out at 2:00 -- 2:00, 3:00 in the
morning there are three settings on the Jake brakes and we tend to go to low, which
makes them a lot quieter when we are coming to that stop, because at 3:00 o'clock in
the morning there is typically not a lot of traffic. So, we do our best to keep that noise
down.
De Weerd: I guess the question is can you do that all the time?
Bongiorno: I -- maybe. I mean it depends. If we are running code three, no, we can't.
De Weerd: I mean not in an emergency situation.
Bongiorno: Sure.
De Weerd: Which is what I understand is exempt.
Bongiorno: Correct.
De Weerd: In practice.
Bongiorno: Right. And, then, the other problems you have is whenever there is snow
we are going to put the Jake brakes on low anyway, because if they are on high and the
roads are icy it's going to put the fire engine in a spin. So, it's a safety thing anyway.
De Weerd: So, I think you have kind of answered it is you could.
Bongiorno: Yeah, we could. Again I will reiterate all of our new apparatus -- because
Council has been very generous to the fire department and we have new apparatus.
They are pretty darn quiet.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Thank you, Council. At least you can make them compliant. Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: And quieter than before doesn't change the fact that they are still -- they are
being used or, you know, not -- again I mean as much as everybody loves it when
Congress exempts themselves from -- from laws, I think that even here at local
government we should do the same. If we are going to make a law, dang it, we better
adhere to it. Novel idea for elected officials to restrict themselves on something and
decisions that we have to make on expenses to replace brakes and whatnot, but if this
continues, which, frankly, I hope it doesn't, as I'm sure, you know, technology in all
trucks is going to continue to improve, they are going to get quieter and whatnot, but if
this does continue, then, we should not exempt ourselves or any other public entity.
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De Weerd: Any other questions or comments? Anyone else want to provide testimony?
Okay. Council.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: I move we will close the public hearing on Item 7 -- 6-G.
De Weerd: 6-F.
Palmer: F.
Little Roberts: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing on Item 6-F.
All those in favor say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. TWO ABSENT.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: I move we accept the recommendation of the Transportation Commission and
not move forward with hearings on the proposed ordinance.
Bernt: I will second for discussion.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to not approve an ordinance under 19-1855.
Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: I -- at first glance -- thank you, Madam Mayor, for allowing me to speak. At first
glance I -- the last time we heard -- had a public testimony or we discussed this -- I
remember it was a public testimony. But chief came up and explained that it would be
very difficult to enforce this law and in light of that I was opposed to it. I felt like there
was no reason to enact a law or an ordinance that wasn't enforceable. But if the chief is
saying that it is enforceable, then, I don't see a reason why we shouldn't, you know,
pass this ordinance if what the chief is saying is correct and I think it's only going to help
maybe some noise pollution.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other comments? Mr. Clerk, will you call roll. So, the -- the
motion on the table is to not approve Ordinance 19-1855. Mr. Clerk.
Bernt, nay.
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De Weerd: Okay. I will be no.
MOTION FAILED: TWO AYES. TWO NAYS. TWO ABSENT. MAYOR NAY.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Give me a second to look at my calendar here. The calendar doesn't go into
the next year. I move that we continue the public hearing on this item until the second
Tuesday in January.
Bernt: January?
Bernt: And to explain the reason why is because we will have a whole new Council,
new Mayor. We are tied at the moment. That would give a good opportunity to gain any
extra information that we might need in the meantime, as well as a fresh set of eyes to
look at it to make a decision then.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion to continue. Do I have a second? Okay. The
motion fails. Do I have another motion?
Bernt: I'm okay with that motion, just not until January 2nd. That's a long time to be
talking about this ordinance. I don't -- Madam Mayor, I'm sorry. I just don't feel like this
goes to the level of a -- of a new Council and a new Mayor. So, I mean I'm okay with
continuing it, if that's what Council Member Palmer wants, that's fine, but preferably
sooner than the second week in January.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I don't know if this is helpful or not. This
was advertised only as a first reading. You -- so, my recommendation was going to be if
you want to pass this to move it to next week anyway for a second and third reading.
You can still not pass it if that's the direction of the Council. But if you want to continue
it, you continue the second and third reading to another date. Again it doesn't have to
be next week, but I was going to recommend you not approve it tonight in its current
form until we at least had noticed it as a second and third reading.
De Weerd: Why don't we just not do any city business until January. I mean this is
ridiculous. Okay. Do I have a motion to continue this or to deny it, pass it, whatever
you want.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
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Meridian City Council
October 15, 2019
Page 38 of 41
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: I move that we continue it to next week and that would be the first
reading. Pass on the first reading today.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Little Roberts, you can
either do the first reading or your -- your direction is to put it on next week for all three
readings for potential approval. Again, it could get denied as well, so --
Little Roberts: We have -- wait until next week to do the first reading if we are making
some adjustments to the current ordinance.
Nary: Yes, ma'am. If you're going to make adjustments, yes, I would suggest that. If
it's going to stay in this present form I would recommend simply moving it to next week
for all three readings for this discussion and a vote either up or down.
Little Roberts: Sorry. We are looking at a rather busy calendar it looks like. So, maybe
the 6th. November 6th.
Borton: The 6th -- Madam Mayor. Kind of the discussion was the 6th doesn't have
anything on it yet. The 22nd has three public hearings so far. Ruminate about that.
De Weerd: Council, certainly you can have the first reading tonight, second reading
next week, and third reading and action on the first meeting in -- what is that?
November 6th. So -- so, we will go ahead with the first reading under seven when we
get to it, have the second reading next week and the third reading the first and ask for
action at that time. Okay. Perfect. Thank you.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Does anybody have any objection to removing the exemptions except for in
case of emergency? Or does anybody see a reason to keep them there?
Nary: So, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, before you answer it, just to be sure
what it says in the ordinance is emergencies to prevent a collision. So, not that they are
-- not that they are responding code three and need to use them, but only in the event of
avoiding a collision. So, I don't know if that will hinder the operation of the fire
apparatus. I heard maybe not, but I just want to be sure you knew emergency wasn't
that just an emergency vehicle in responding, so just wanted to make sure that was
clear.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda October 22, 2019 – Page 65 of 793
Meridian City Council
October 15, 2019
Page 39 of 41
Palmer: Then knowing that and clarifying my own opinion, I have no objection to them
being exempted for use anytime they are headed towards an incident.
Bongiorno: Madam Mayor and City Council, again, the ladder truck weighs 80,000
pounds. You have to use the Jake brakes on the ladder truck to slow that thing down.
Otherwise we are going to be eating disc brakes and replacing rotors and drums at a
high capacity by not using the Jake brakes to slow that thing down. I don't think not
allowing us to not use the Jake brakes would be a problem.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: And there are certainly trucks that are allowed on the roads that are much
heavier and would do far more damage to their -- their own brakes on not using Jake
brakes. That's why I'm against it, because I -- again, I -- I try to take into consideration
the private sector. I don't -- I think you should absolutely be able to use them for that
exact reason. It is a wise use of public tax dollars and that there is a system built into
the truck to prevent the overuse of the disc brakes. That's the same exact thing that's
built into trucks that are far heavier that are allowed on the roads and taking everyone --
all of our citizens and all of our businesses and everybody that participates in any kind
of activity within the City of Meridian, this is not a wise ordinance to move forward with.
However, the ordinance is on our agenda, so it's certainly going to get passed. I'm just
trying to make the best improvement we possibly can before we get there.
De Weerd: Yeah. I think the -- the inconsistency is from city to city is -- is why we took
an existing ordinance to -- to apply it. Certainly if truckers are used to adhering to other
ordinances consistency is -- is probably -- they are not going to do something along
Highway 20-26 because, oh, I'm in Meridian, so now I can do something. I don't know.
It -- certainly we can have the first reading, people can ponder it until next week and if
you would like it changed we can have that brought back to the first meeting in
November. So, we don't need a motion. If you want to continue the public hearing,
along with the second and third reading, then, you can take additional testimony should
there be. Okay. Any further comment under 6-F?
(Mr. Palmer left the room.)
G. Public Hearing for Ordinance 19-1857: An Ordinance
Prohibiting the Use of Handheld Wireless Devices While
Operating a Vehicle Upon a Street or Highway Within the City
of Meridian
Item 7: Ordinances
A. First Reading of Ordinance 19-1855: An Ordinance Prohibiting
Use of Compression Brakes Within the City of Meridian
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda October 22, 2019 – Page 66 of 793
Meridian City Council
October 15, 2019
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B. First Reading of Ordinance 19-1857: An Ordinance Prohibiting
the Use of Handheld Wireless Devices While Operating a
Vehicle Upon a Street or Highway Within the City of Meridian
Item 8: Future Meeting Topics
De Weerd: 6-G is a public hearing for Ordinance 19-1857 -- Mr. Nary, we are losing a
quorum. Is he leaving for good?
Nary: So -- yeah. Yeah. Madam Mayor, if Mr. Palmer is going to leave, yeah, then, you
cannot continue the meeting, so --
De Weerd: Whatever class you guys are writing this about I want to read your paper. Is
he gone?
Borton: Yes.
De Weerd: Okay.
Borton: I indicated, Madam Mayor, that we can't proceed on this matter in his absence
and he said, oh, darn it, snapped, and left. So, there you have it.
De Weerd: Okay. Well, I -- since I don't even need a motion to adjourn, because we
can entertain a motion, Mr. Nary this just means we are done.
Nary: Yes, Madam Mayor, unfortunately I have never had this situation happen before.
De Weerd: This is a first.
Nary: I -- I have been in Council meetings for a long time, I have never had that
happen. So, yes. So, unfortunately, we can't even move to adjourn. We will move
these items to the next meeting for continued business.
De Weerd: So, if anyone is here to provide testimony on this next item, the use of
handheld -- handheld wireless devices, I apologize that we can't take your testimony,
because our meeting is over, so --
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: To that point, if there is anybody here, we are still on the record, this is a
legislative matter. We are more than willing to sit here in the audience and visit with
you. If you have got any input on it -- you're here, you came out, I'm sorry that this had
to happen this way, but we will certainly listen to you off the record, outside of meeting,
and get your input since you took the time to be with us tonight.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda October 22, 2019 – Page 67 of 793
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October 15, 2019
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De Weerd: Okay.
Borton: Whoever -- if anyone wants to do that.
De Weerd: Okay. Well, thank you, Council. This meeting is adjourned.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 7:59 P.M.
(AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
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