HomeMy WebLinkAbout2005 05-10
Meridian Citv Council Meetina
Mav 10, 2005.
The regular meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 7:00 P.M.,
Tuesday, May 10, 2005, by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Mayor Tammy de Weerd, Keith Bird, Shaun Wardle, and Charlie
Rountree.
Members Absent: Christine Donnell.
Others Present: Ted Baird, Will Berg, Anna Canning, Brad Watson, Brad
Hawkins-Clark, Bill Johnson, John Overton, and Dean Willis.
Item 1:
Roll-call Attendance:
Roll call.
-X- Shaun Wardle _Christine Donnell
-X- Charlie Rountree --X..-Keith Bird
...K- Mayor Tammy de Weerd
Wardle: I'd like to welcome everyone to the May 10th, 2005, meeting, City Council
regular meeting, for the City of Meridian. And I will begin with roll call attendance.
Item 2:
Pledge of Allegiance:
Wardle: We are going to begin with our pledge of allegiance and we'd be honored if
Josh Fong, our resident Warrior, would lead us in the pledge.
Item 3:
Community Invocation by Shawn Ragan, Meridian Church of God.
Wardle: Thank you, Josh. Item 3 is our community invocation and I would like to invite
Shawn Ragan of the Meridian Church of God.
Ragan: Thank you, Members of the Council. Shall we pray. Father, we once again
come before you this evening, Lord, to ask for wisdom and guidance upon our city,
upon our City Council this evening, Lord, as they go about doing the business of our
city, Lord, we just pray that you would give them wisdom and guidance, give them clear
direction in what they are doing. Father, we just pray for your blessings upon Meridian,
we pray for your blessings upon those who serve the city, our City Council, our Mayor,
those in the police and fire department. Lord, we just pray that you would watch over
Meridian, keep us safe and guide us in all that we do. We thank you for your presence.
We thank you for your time and we thank you in Jesus' name, amen. Thank you.
Item 4:
Adoption of the Agenda:
Wardle: Thank you. Item No.4 is adoption of the agenda.
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Bird: Mr. President?
Wardle: Mr. Bird.
Bird: We do have a couple. Under Department Reports, President's Office, we need to
add an Item No.2, a proclamation for Water Awareness Week and also at the end, Item
No. 16, with your permission, Mr. President, I'd like to add the EMS decision discussion
by Mayor and Council, if the Mayor is back. If not, the Council. We need to make a
decision on that.
Wardle: Okay.
Bird: With that I would move that we approve the agenda.
Rountree: Second.
Wardle: It's been moved and seconded to approve the agenda. All in favor?
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 5:
Consent Agenda:
A.
B.
C.
D.
Approve Minutes of April 12, 2005 City Council Regular Meeting:
Approve Minutes of April 19, 2005 City Council Regular Meeting:
Sanitary Sewer and Water Main Easement for Idaho Uroloaic
Institute:
Development Agreement: AZ 04-029 Request for an Annexation
and Zoning of 8.58 acres from RUT zone to C-G zone for
Cottonwood Lane by Tom Holliday/Cottonwood Lane Partners -
985 East Freeway Drive:
E.
Sewer Master Plan Update and Expansion Aareement - JUB
Enaineers:
F.
Award of Bid for Well 20B Pump House Expansion to Guho
Corporation:
G.
Contract with Custom Electric for Telemetry Installation at Size
Lift Stations:
H.
Well 26 Production
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May 10, 2005
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Wardle: Item No.5 is the Consent Agenda.
Bird: Mr. President?
Wardle: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move that we approve the Consent Agenda as published and for the President to
sign and the Clerk to attest on all proper papers.
Rountree: Second.
Wardle: It's been moved and seconded to approve the Consent Agenda and I will call
roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Donnell, absent.
Wardle: Consent Agenda is approved.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 6:
Department Reports:
A.
Mayor's Office
1.
Proclamation: Letter Carriers Food Drive Day -
Saturday, May 14, 2005
Wardle: Item No.6 is Department Reports. I have two proclamations that I will be
reading here. The first is a proclamation, Item No.1, Letter Carriers Food Day Drive.
Proclamation. Whereas the National Association of Letter Carriers, NALC, and the U.S.
Postal Service in the City of Meridian and Ada County, have organized a food drive and
whereas the Postmaster General has recognized this effective and unique door to door
food drive and designated this event as a national community service project of both the
NALC and the U.S. Postal Service in Meridian in more than 10,000 other locations
around the country and whereas in Girl Scouting girls grow strong, gain self confidence,
and leadership, whereas an estimated 30 million people go hungry every day in
America, including more than 12 million children, in Idaho approximately 66,300 Idaho
families worried that they could not afford to buy food and 20,812 families had members
who went actually hungry and whereas there are about 68,400 working poor in Idaho
and the working poor continues to be a growing segment of the population in Meridian
and Idaho as Idaho continues to lose manufacturing jobs, which are replaced by lower
paying service jobs and whereas the Idaho Food Bank distributed 5.45 million pounds of
food to more than 200 partner agencies in 2005 and because it depends on its friends
of the U.S. Postal Service and postal patrons for this support, therefore, I, Shaun
Wardle, City Council President of the City of Meridian, do hereby proclaim Saturday,
May 14th, 2005, as Letter Carriers Food Drive Day, urging all members of the Meridian
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community to generously respond to the needs of the Idaho Food Bank and to the
invitation of the National Association of Letter Carriers to become part of the solution to
the hunger in Idaho.
2:
Proclamation: Water Awareness Week:
Wardle: Item No.2. We have a proclamation. Whereas, the Water Awareness Week
Program began in 1994 to provide water education to Idaho sixth grade students and
whereas the objective is to help the sixth graders to understand how important water is
in their daily lives and whereas the statewide program is implemented by the six
regional committees, which Region Three committee covers ten counties in southwest
Idaho and whereas the theme for this year is groundwater and whereas teachers
throughout the area will be utilizing materials distributed in an effort to explain
groundwater movement, sources of contamination and well drilling, therefore, I, Shaun
Wardle, City Council President of the City of Meridian, do hereby proclaim the week of
May 9th through the 13th, 2005, to be water awareness week in the City of Meridian
and urge all of our citizens to be aware of the importance of water in our community.
Item 7:
(Items Moved from Consent Agenda)
Wardle: Thank you very much. Item No.7, items moved from the Consent Agenda.
There are none.
Item 8:
Tabled from May 3, 2005: FP 05-028 Request for Final Plat approval for
114 single-family residential building lots and 23 common lots on 41.05
acres in a R-4 zone for Saauaro Canvon Subdivision No.2 by Farwest,
LLC - north of East McMillan Road and east of North Meridian Road:
Wardle: Moving to Item No.8, tabled from May 3rd, 2005, is FP 05-028. I will begin
with staff comments.
Canning: President Wardle, Members of the Council, this item is Saguaro Canyon
Subdivision No.2. It's located north of McMillan, about midway between Meridian and
Locust Grove. This is a final plat application. They have proposed 114 single-family
residential lots and 23 common lots on 41.05 acres. I think this is one of the largest
final plats we have ever seen. The PD that was approved for this project did allow
reductions to lot size, house size, street frontage, and cul-de-sac length. These are the
two pages of that final plat. The gross residential density is 2.8 dwelling units per acre
and the net residential density is 3.5. Staff is recommending approval. Did want to
highlight some of the issues. They were required to have a 20-foot temporary
emergency access to Meridian Road. It is shown here. It's on an existing flag lot that
was originally part of the preliminary plat proposal that provided access to the Boyak
property. This is an interim fix. It's just an emergency access road. Once they hit 236
lots this one has to go away forever and they have to have a secondary access road to
the property. So, that would either be through Ventana or -- Ventana to the west or
something else to the east. So, I did just want to mention those two items. There are
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May 10, 2005
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nine fewer lots than the approved preliminary plat, but when you're talking about a 114-
lot plat, staff feels it is still in substantial compliance with the approved preliminary plat.
The letter has submitted -- or the applicant has submitted a letter agreeing to the
conditions of approval.
Wardle: Okay. Thank you, Anna. Council, staff is recommending approval and the
applicant has agreed with all conditions.
Bird: Mr. President?
Wardle: Mr. Bird.
Bird: This don't say, but I thought this was a continued Public Hearing, isn't it? It's
down under the public hearings. It don't say it, but -- and I can remember -- it shouldn't
have been for a final plat.
Wardle: Mr. Bird, it's says it's tabled. It's not a continued Public Hearing.
Rountree: It's for their plat approval.
Bird: Okay. With that, Mr. President, I move we approve FP 05-028, request for final
plat approval of Saguaro Canyon Subdivision No.2 and to incorporate all staff and
written comment from applicant.
Rountree: Second.
Wardle: It's been moved and seconded to approve Item No.8. Mr. Clerk, will you,
please, call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Donnell, absent.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 9:
Continued Public Hearing from May 3, 2005: MI 05-003 Request for a
Miscellaneous approval to operate a fruit and vegetable stand in a CoG
zone for Richard Handke by Richard Handke - 97 Main Street:
Wardle: Thank you. Item No.9 is a continued Public Hearing from May 3rd, 2005, on
MI 05-003. I will open the Public Hearing with staff comments.
Canning: Mr. President, Members of the Council, this is a request by Richard Handke
for a fruit and vegetable stand. It will be located at Main and Franklin. The whole
property is shown here, but as you see on the aerial, they will only be using the front
part of it that is right along Meridian and Franklin. It won't extend -- I mean, sorry, Main
Street and Franklin. It won't extend to Meridian. There we go. This is a miscellaneous
application for a temporary use. As you know, the City Council has been doing these
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until staff can rewrite the ordinance so that these are a staff approval. I have a site
plan. It is on the overhead, so it will take me just a second here. There you go. The
applicant is proposing a 32,000 square foot building, so it's 40 by 80, as shown here,
and it would just be a temporary tent, so it would not be a permanent structure. Staff is
recommending that it be approved through November 1 st, 2005. This would get him
through Halloween pumpkin sales. The hours of operation would be 10:00 a.m. to 7:00
p.m., Monday through Saturday, and 11 :00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. on Sunday. There
appears to be sufficient area for off-street parking. The applicant has not provided a
striped parking lot or anything of that nature, so staff is pretty comfortable that there is
sufficient area. The applicant has agreed to place a dustless material on those parking
areas. He's also agreed to the hours of operation and the days of operations as well.
So, the only outstanding question I think we had was whether or not fireworks would be
sold at this property as well. The applicant typically has fireworks stands across the
county, so we weren't sure if that would be included with the approval and I just wanted
to remind the Council that on this one we would -- you would be directing staff to
prepare an order of decision, rather than findings. That's all.
Wardle: Thank you, Anna. Questions for staff?
Bird: Mr. President?
Wardle: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Anna, that -- if he wants to sell fireworks, he would still have to come back through
and purchase the license -- the fireworks license; right?
Canning: Yes, sir.
Bird: That's alii have, Mr. President.
Wardle: Thank you.
Berg: Mr. President?
Wardle: Mr. Berg.
Berg: If I could address the fireworks permits. They were required to provide an
application by April 15th and he has done so for this site, so that's in the process of
being distributed to the departments and approved. But that's as per our ordinance. It's
that far in advance.
Bird: Mr. President?
Wardle: Mr. Bird.
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May 10. 2005
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Bird: Mr. Clerk, that would be, then -- that's with the fire department now, these permits,
or --
Berg: Mr. President, Councilman Bird, the application is distributed through the
departments, so each one has an opportunity to address whatever issues there may be,
primarily it is under the direction of the fire department for their approval.
Wardle: So, then, Anna, a follow-up question would be that within this miscellaneous
permit, if the applicant has applied and it is approved through the normal ordinance
process, that would -- they would be approved through an already existing permit and
it's not part of this application; right?
Canning: Not exactly.
Wardle: Not exactly?
Canning: This issue with this particular site is because there is no retail use on the site,
we can't deem this an accessory use and that's why we have asked them to do the
miscellaneous application for their temporary use. Most of the other fireworks stands
are either in the county or they are on sites where there is a retail use or a commercial
use approved. So, this is unusual in that it is zoned for commercial, which is one of the
requirements for the fireworks stands, but it does not have an actual commercial use on
it. So, it would be important to add it to this approval.
Rountree: Mr. President?
Wardle: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Question for Anna and acting police chief. This would create, one, a
destination, but also an impulse buy situation and you have got access off of Main
Street and Franklin at a fairly busy intersection and I don't see any comments from
ACHD, I don't see any comments from the police department. It seems to me that
appropriate signage and/or markings ought to be there to accommodate those kinds of
reactions for the driver. I can see right and left turns on Franklin creating a problem and
they are, obviously, not going to be able to make left turns on Main Street, but there
could be some issues there and I don't -- can't tell by the drawing. I guess they do have
the distance on where the access points are, but are there any others curb cuts that
could be utilized that maybe need to be blocked or --
Canning: The applicant may be better able to address the curb cuts. This site has -- is
used frequently, as you know, for these things and to my -- this is the first time we have
made someone come through based on the past decisions of the Council, to go ahead
and bring these forward as temporary uses. So, this is the first time we required it. To
my knowledge, there hasn't been a real problem out there with the temporary uses.
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Overton: Mr. President, Members of the Council, I think you have a valid concern with
any left turns onto Franklin Road. It is a right turn only onto Main Street, because of the
curbs that are already existing in the middle of the road, but we would have to look
seriously at this request for signage, so there is right turn only onto Franklin Road from
that dirt lot. We don't have a high incident rate from the fireworks stand that operates
there, so I don't have a history showing that it's been a dangerous place to operate a
business.
Rountree: Okay. Thank you. That's good information. Appreciate it.
Wardle: Thank you. Would the applicant, please, come forward with comments and
begin by stating your name and address for the record, please.
Handke: Richard Handke, 3565 West Muirfield Drive, Meridian, Idaho. Pertaining to
the access of traffic, I can't really see a problem. I can see your suggestions and stuff,
but the Home Federal Bank is right on the same corner and uses the same entrance as
will be used to come into the produce stand and there hasn't been too much of a
problem there that I'm aware of. I don't have any facts on that, but -- other than that,
that's --
Wardle: Other questions of the applicant?
Rountree: I have no questions.
Bird: I have none.
Wardle: Just to clarify, Mr. Handke, for the record, you do intend to operate a fireworks
stand at --
Handke: Yes, I do. And at the time that we sell the fireworks will have no produce in
there and just strictly sell the fireworks and, then, we will continue to come back in and
sell the produce here.
Wardle: Okay. Thank you.
Canning: Mr. President, I did want to point out - I had forgotten. There is a condition of
approval that says if off-street parking creates a potential traffic hazard and/or the police
or Planning and Zoning Department determines a potential hazard exists at anytime, the
city reserves the right to revoke the temporary use permit.
Wardle: Thank you very much.
Handke: Okay. Thank you.
Wardle: This is a Public Hearing. Is there anyone else that would wish to testify on this
application? Hearing no further testimony --
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Bird: Mr. President?
Wardle: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we close Item No.9.
Rountree: Second.
Wardle: It's been moved and seconded to close the Public Hearing on Item No.9. All
in favor?
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Rountree: Mr. President?
Wardle: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move that we approve the request in Item No.9 for a Conditional Use
Permit.
Bird: Second.
Wardle: It's been moved and seconded --
Rountree: With the decision of order.
Bird: Second agrees.
Wardle: With the decision of order. And is that also to include applicant's comments on
the operation of the fireworks stand?
Rountree: Yes.
Wardle: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to approve Item No.9. Mr. Berg, will
you, please, call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Donnell, absent.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 10:
Public Hearing: CUP 05-011 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a
daycare facility for 6-12 children for Stephanie Edwards by Stephanie
Edwards -1537 West 15th Street:
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May 10, 2005
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Wardle: Thank you. Item No. 10 is a Public Hearing, CUP 05-011, request for a
Conditional Use Permit for a day care facility for Stephanie Edwards. I will open the
Public Hearing with staff comments.
Canning: President Wardle, Members of the Council -- I can just say councilmen today,
can't I? There we go. This project is located on West 15th Street. It's east of Linder
and south of Cherry. The application is asking for a Conditional Use Permit. The
applicant wishes to operate a group child-care facility. That designation would allow up
to 12 children. However, the limit in this case will be set more by the fire department
standards based on livable space. So, the maximum would be 12, but we anticipate
less, given that it's only a one thousand square foot structure as shown here. So, the --
really, the fire department standards will dictate how many children can be in there. The
Planning and Zoning Commission has recommended approval. The key issues of
discussion were staff parking and, then, the total number of children, as I have
described the issue to you. To our knowledge, there are no outstanding issues before
City Council.
Wardle: Thank you, Anna. Questions for staff?
Bird: I have none, Mr. President.
Rountree: I have none.
Wardle: If the applicant would like to come forward for comments. And if you will begin
by stating your name and address for the record, please.
Edwards: My name is Stephanie Edwards and I live at 1537 West 15th Street and I'm
here representing my request for a group day care.
Wardle: Thank you.
Edwards: I don't really have any comments.
Wardle: Okay. Are there any questions of the applicant?
Rountree: Mr. President?
Wardle: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Mrs. Edwards, do you have an idea of how many children you wish to
accommodate? Are you going to have staff? And I'll start with those two questions and
may proceed.
Edwards: Just myself and I'd like to keep around -- between six to eight kids. Six full
time, hopefully, with an overlap of two or three part time sometimes.
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May 10. 2005
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Rountree: And I can't tell from the drawing, but I assume your yard is fenced?
Edwards: Yes.
Rountree: Okay. Thank you.
Wardle: Thank you. If there are no further questions --
Rountree: Mr. President?
Wardle: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Are there any covenants in your neighborhood that would restrict this use?
Edwards: Not that I know of.
Rountree: Okay. And are there additional day care type facilities within the
neighborhood as well?
Edwards: There are a lot of larger day cares around the area, but there aren't small in-
home day cares right there on that block that I know of. I think there is one a few
streets over.
Rountree: Thank you.
Wardle: Any further questions for the applicant?
Rountree: I have none.
Wardle: Thank you very much. This is a Public Hearing. Is there anyone else that
would like to offer testimony on Item No. 10? Hearing none, additional issues, staff?
No? Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I have a question for Anna and probably the applicant. We aren't seeing a
garage conversion here, are we, and an issue with residents and requirements for a
garage space and those sorts of things?
Canning: Council President Wardle, Councilmember Rountree, not to my knowledge.
The only site plan I have is this one and I haven't seen a facility plan. But to my
knowledge she is not converting her garage, but that would be an appropriate.
Rountree: I see a nod to affirm your comment from the applicant that she's not
proposing to convert the garage.
Wardle: If there are no additional comments, I would entertain a motion to close the
Public Hearing.
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Rountree: So moved.
Bird: Second.
Wardle: It's been moved and seconded to close the Public Hearing on Item No. 10. All
in favor?
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Bird: Mr. President?
Wardle: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move that we approve CUP 05-011 for Stephanie Edwards' Conditional Use
Permit for a day care facility for six to 12 children and to incorporate staff and applicant
comments and also to ask for Findings of Facts, Conclusions of Law, and Decision of
Order.
Rountree: Second.
Wardle: It's been moved and seconded to approve Item No. 10 with findings. Mr. Clerk,
please call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Donnell, absent.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 11:
Public Hearing: PP 05-010 Request for a re-subdivision of Lots 4 & 5,
Block 1 of Bonito Subdivision for Preliminary Plat approval of 9
commercial building lots and 1 other lot on 4.06 acres in a CoG zone for
Bonito Subdivision No.3 by Travis Burrows for Dave Evans
Construction - 3041 & 2967 East Copperpoint Drive:
Wardle: Item No. 11 is Public Hearing PP 05-010, request for a re-subdivision of Lots 4
and 5, Block 1, of Bonito subdivision for preliminary plat. I will open the Public Hearing
with staff comments.
Canning: President Wardle, Councilmen, this is Bonito Subdivision No.3. It's located
west of Eagle Road on Copperpoint Drive. It's a preliminary plat for nine build-able lots
and one common lot on 4.06 acres. As you can see, it's in the EI Dorado Subdivision
and is currently undeveloped. It is zoned CoG. The applicant is proposing nine lots.
You can see the build-able lots kind of are highlighted here. You can see their outline.
This is the actual site plan, which is a little bit easier to read, as far as the traffic flow.
The subdivision will eventually accommodate 42,285 square feet of commercial
development. That would be in nine buildings, so you get an average about 4,700
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square feet per building. So, these are much smaller buildings than were originally
anticipated for these two properties. Their proposed use is for office and retail and P&Z
has recommended approval. The key issues of discussion were primarily about building
height and lighting that pertains to the development agreement for the EI Dorado
subdivision in general. There was also discussion regarding the construction of a
walking path along the Ridenbaugh prior to new building permits being issued and the
Ridenbaugh is to the south of this property along there. And it's our understanding the
applicant has conducted a neighborhood meeting since the Planning and Zoning
Commission meeting, so they may be able to provide some additional information on
resolving some of those neighbor conflicts that came up that night. And most of those
were related to the development of EI Dorado Business Park as a whole, not
necessarily pertinent to this site. So, the outstanding issues would be the height,
lighting, and pathway construction as it pertains to the subdivision. The height -- these
are proposed to be one-story structures, so they would be well within the height limit.
The pathway construction does seem to be the outstanding issue. Staff has informed
Jonathan Seal that we will not release another building permit south of Copperpoint
Drive until that pathway has been constructed. It was -- again, it was part of the original
approval, but there was -- there were problems with the Ridenbaugh actually leaking, so
they didn't want them doing any construction near the Ridenbaugh until they figured out
a solution to that problem. Well, the Ridenbaugh has been lined now, so it's stable and
they can go ahead and do the construction of the pathway. So, that pathway
construction does need to be done and that is all of staff's presentation.
Wardle: Thank you, Anna. And I'd like to welcome Mayor de Weerd to the meeting and
offer either my services as chair through the end of this Public Hearing or to turn it over,
whichever you would prefer.
De Weerd: Why, thank you, Councilman Wardle. Is the applicant here tonight? Please
state your name and address.
Burrows: My name is Travis Burrows with Dave Evans Construction, 5561 North
Glenwood Street, here representing Dave Evans on the subdivision - re-subdivision of
Lots 4 and 5. And, first, I wanted to make a comment, I was under the impression that
we were able to not bypass -- postpone the walking path until at least the common
areas were developed at the south end of the property, so that there was no further
damage to that and -- but I may not have all the information on that, so --
De Weerd: It's certainly not my recollection. Anna, can you -- do you have clarity on
that?
Canning: Well, we sent a memo in June 11th of 2004 outlining the problem. Brad
issued -- Brad sent out another e-mail immediately after the Planning and Zoning
hearing discussing the issue. I think some of the miscommunication may be in that a
CZC was applied for this site, it was denied based on some Public Works issues.
Public Works has indicated they would release it under certain conditions, but this was
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May 10, 2005
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an outstanding condition for the subdivision as a whole as it applies to it. So, I think
that's where the confusion is.
De Weerd: Okay. So, I don't know, maybe it's because I got here late. So, what was
the answer? That it needs to go in first?
Canning: I believe -- yes.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Rountree: Before building permits are issued.
De Weerd: Before building permits are issued.
Canning: Yes.
De Weerd: Okay. Does that clarify that for you?
Burrows: I guess. Yes. I may not have all the information. I will contact Jonathan Seal
and see if they had received that, because as far as Dave Evans, that's the first I have
heard of that, so --
De Weerd: Is there anything further?
Burrows: I have no other comments. Other than we did hold a neighborhood meeting.
It was last week. Met with Mr. and Mrs. Hornbaker at their residence and as well as a
few other residents abutting the Ridenbaugh Canal there where the folks that had the
most concern with that area, so --
De Weerd: Okay. Council, do you have any questions?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. I have two people signed up to indicate their neutrality
on this application. Loren Hornbaker. Would you like to provide testimony? If you will,
please, state your name and your address.
Hornbaker: My name is Loren Hornbaker. I live at 2918 East Green Canyon and we
did have a meeting at our house with Jonathan Seal and Dave Evans Construction and
also Mr. Moore was there. Jonathan Seal and Mr. Moore want to put the path off until
most of the construction is done as far as the lots, the roads, the curbs, the gutters,
maybe even the buildings. I don't know how far, but, anyway, they told us that there
would be less chance for damage to it and they promised it would be in. But whatever -
- you know, I'm not saying that they should be put it in or they shouldn't be put it in
immediately. It would be better, I think, if we got it in. But that was their reasoning, was
that they didn't want to interfere with the construction, with backhoes backing over the
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sidewalk and tearing it up and causing rework. But the only other things that we
brought up at the meeting was lighting and we were told the lighting would not be --
there would be no street lighting, other than what is existing on Copperpoint. All of the
other lighting would be -- on the buildings would be soffit lighting or a ground lighting
that would not give a reflection into the neighborhood across the canal. I think from and
if they stick with it, I think it's great. You know, I think we have what they showed us in
this print, it's much better than what it was going to be before accomplished something.
Really. So, that's alii have. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you so much. Okay. Ellen Haren.
Haren: Thank you, Mayor and Council. My name is Ellen Irene Haren. I live at 2896
East Green Canyon Drive, directly behind the planned development. After attending the
zoning and planning meeting April 7th of this year, I called the zoning and planning
commission the next day, April 8th, with many questions and concerns. I talked to Joe
Guenther, who told me he would find out and send me the information I desired. I never
heard from him again. Not by phone or mail. However, I did find out most of the
information from other sources, especially from Mr. Burrows, who was very helpful. But
I felt very disappointed that we had been told that the zoning and planning -- that we
could call them and that they would tell us -- in fact, I said should I come there and he
said, no, because it would take several days to get the information I desired. Because
of some very serious -- some serious misunderstandings and possible violations by the
EI Dorado Business Campus, I'd appreciate the things that Mr. Burrows assured us be
put into writing. Some of the things EI Dorado told us were misleading. Number one,
that I would really like in the actual -- in writing there be no parking lot lighting in Bonito
Subdivision and this was one thing that Mr. Burrows -- we didn't think of that. He stated
to us in the neighborhood meeting that that would be the case. So, I would like it in
writing, so that nobody changes it later. Number two, that the outside building lighting
be downcast, shielded, or recessed, so that lights do not directly shine on any
residential buildings. Number three, I added this one, because, you will see in a minute,
no bright orange or other glaring street lights with 360 degree illumination, similar to
those in the EI Dorado Business Campus, be placed in the Bonito Subdivision. Mr.
Travis already -- I mean Mr. Burrows, excuse me, already verbally stated these
conditions, but I would really like them specifically put in, because of the following: In
the City of Meridian memorandum for the EI Dorado Business Campus, application
summary dated December 4th, 2001, general comments, page 12, item six, it states:
Outside lighting shall be designed and placed as not to direct illumination on any nearby
residential area in accordance with the city ordinance. This condition is currently being
violated by EI Dorado Business Campus. Hopefully, more specific lighting requirements
for Bonito will prevent this from happening in the Bonito Subdivision. Thank you very
much.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Canning: Madam Mayor?
Meridian City Council
May 10. 2005
Page 16 of 37
De Weerd: Yes, Anna.
Canning: May I ask -- oh, there it is. Ellen Irene Haren. I would just like to state that I
will make sure that Mr. Guenther contacts Mrs. Haren and apologizes for not returning
her phone call earlier.
De Weerd: I appreciate that. Anna, could you respond to the city's condition about
lighting?
Canning: About the street lighting or the site lighting, Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Both.
Canning: The site - the site lighting is -- is required to be full shielded. The -- I think
the -- and the lighting that is being proposed with the soffit lighting and the downcast
lighting would qualify as fully shielded. So, I think that adding those conditions would
provide some assurance for those neighbors and I think it is consistent with the style of
development that we -- that we see before us today. Regarding the street lights, I think
it's been unclear on some of the streetlights as to what qualifies as fully shielded. I think
that as they have been described to me, they do not appear to be fully shield in that the
lamp is not within the shielded area. They are capped, so they have some shielding to
prevent direct up lighting, but it doesn't prevent the glow of the bulb. It's kind of an
antique style light bulb, as I understand it. It's unclear to me as to -- if the streetlights
are under the same requirements as the development on the property. This is in the
right of way, so it's not on those -- that property, but --
De Weerd: I'm sorry, ma'am. Since this is still part of maybe your questioning, if you
will come up. You can come up to the podium. I did ask her to respond to your
question, so --
Haren: I'm sorry. She said there was -- they were only in the streetlights. That's not
true. They are a lot of the properties that have been already developed. Besides, they
are -- even in antique -- the heritage antique building, there are two in the parking lot
that are even south of Copperpoint, but they are throughout the whole subdivision, not
just in the streetlights, but around the buildings. The Key Bank probably has at least
eight or ten around its building, not just the streetlights.
Canning: I stand corrected. Or sit corrected, as the case may be.
De Weerd: We will ask the applicant if he can clarify the plans in this particular phase.
Burrows: As mentioned and discussed at our --
De Weerd: If you will restate your name just for the record.
Meridian City Councii
May 10, 2005
Page 170f37
Burrows: Oh, yes. Travis Burrows with Dave Evans Construction. At the neighborhood
meeting we did assure everyone that we are not proposing anymore of the -- I guess
street lighting, site lighting, within our subdivision. The only lighting that would be there
is what is existing along Copperpoint Drive, other than on the buildings, we are just
proposing the soffit lighting, similar to the can lights above you, right there where it will
only shine down onto the side of the building and we will do our best to not place them
over the windows, even, to prevent any glare reflection off of that as well, so --
De Weerd: And how will you provide safety in your parking lot, then?
Burrows: The lighting on the buildings is, actually, quite substantial. We place them
every six to eight feet. You know, our windows, we only make them about, you know, to
four windows and so eight foot between lights, reflecting off of a very light colored wall,
stucco, it's going to provide quite a bit of lighting out there. And in our previous
developments we have decided to go away from street lighting or the site lighting within
the parking lot, just because all of our parking is between buildings and it does provide
quite a large amount of light.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Where are some of your other developments at locally that don't have no street
lighting or no lighting in the parking lot? I have some real safety concerns.
Burrows: Yeah. Where our current office is is North Glenwood Street across from
Hawks stadium.
Bird: Uh-huh. I know it.
Burrows: We have several others. There is one on Maple Grove, but that is a large
development with quite a bit of parking in between the rest of them and it's a busy area
where we have provided lot lighting in that one. That was a development we had done
quite a bit sooner, before we decided to go away -- do away with the lot lighting.
Canning: There is one in Rocky Mountain Business Park and there is two on Overland
Road.
Borrows: Yeah. We have a second one going in at Rocky Mountain Business Park
also. Very similar to that.
Bird: And none of these -- none of these have lighting within the --
Burrows: The one on Overland was one of our first developments that I was involved
on and that also does have lot lighting, but it's -- yeah, since, then, we have decided to
goto--
Meridian City Council
May 10. 2005
Page 18 of 37
Bird: Well, I have got some real safety concerns. I wouldn't want my wife or daughter
or daughter-in-law or grandkids -- granddaughters going out there in -- late at night and
realize most of the offices don't stay -- but there is times when they -- especially in the
wintertime when it gets dark at 5:00 o'clock.
Burrows: Right.
Bird: I have got some real concerns on that.
Burrows: The lights are a photo cell, so they do turn on when it is dusk or dark enough
for them to be turned on and, then, I did have a question, if they were going to provide
lighting along the walkway, because that's where I would be most concerned with, you
know, people walking out there in the evening, if that's going to be lit or --
Bird: But you're stating you're flooding -- you're flooding light off of the building.
Burrows: Right.
Bird: Off of the stucco building. How far out does that flood? It can't flood very far out.
Burrows: Well, it wouldn't be -- no, not in a flood sense, but a reflection of that is going
to go at least to, you know, the parking lot. We only have two to three feet of
landscaping between the building and the sidewalk and the sidewalk is generally fully lit.
Bird: Well, what about out in the parking lot where my wife or somebody is getting into
the car?
Burrows: Sure. Well, like I had mentioned before, all of our parking is between the
buildings. You know, there is not a lot of parking that's just going to be out in the open
where we might need a lot light situation.
Bird: So, you're stating every -- you're putting in four foot windows every eight feet
apart in your buildings, there is blind spots right there that you don't see. I don't care --
you know, I don't -- the parking lots can be between buildings, but, still, they don't -- to
me it don't make it any safer. I just don't feel real comfortable without having some kind
of lighting in there and I don't know of too many parking -- in fact, you go around the
neighbors, go up there in the neighbor's place and they are -- I'll bet you they are all lit
up when they come driving in. They have got lights in their driveways and stuff.
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: Madam Mayor, Anna, is parking lot lighting a code issue for the city?
Canning: Not to my knowledge, sir. The one solution would be to have the applicant
provide some photometrics on the -- how far the light will go. The furthest distance
Meridian City Councii
May 10. 2005
Page 19 of 37
between the two buildings is 120 feet, the largest gap, so they would have to be able to
get 60 feet. This would seem to be the most concerned area. I'm pretty comfortable on
all. these others, but those lights will be able to reach across. Just a brief discussion
about lighting. Sometimes you don't need a lot of light and sometimes a lot of light is
worse than a little light. You need to have a little light, so that you can identify someone
there, but you don't want to create a glare, because people can hide behind a glaring
object almost more than they can in a shaded, but I think that if the application could
provide some photometrics on how this would work, that might be a way of letting staff
address it at a future date, if the Council would like to consider that.
De Weerd: Yeah. I guess I was looking at that one area you pointed out that would be
of greatest concern. Captain Overton, do you have any concerns?
Overton: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I think I'll have to mirror the concerns
that have already been stated. On the area between the businesses where there is just
parking spaces up against the side of the buildings, with that type of lighting I don't have
any concerns, but in that one section where there is actually parking out in the center
away from the buildings, I'm having a hard time believing that that's actually going to be
lit up from the lighting on the side of the building, I think I'd have to agreed with Anna's
concerns that we probably need to have some either photo evidence that this is actually
going to work the way we are being told.
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle?
Wardle: Madam Mayor. And, Mr. Burrows, not to build your project for you, but did I
hear during your testimony you state that you will be using soffit lighting and down
lighting, as well as landscaped lighting?
Burrows: No. Actually, there will not be any landscape lighting, only the down lighting
in the soffits of the buildings.
Wardle: Okay. Then, I think we are talking -- staff is talking specifically these two
areas. How would you address the illumination?
Burrows: If -- if that were the case that we were required to put something in there for
the safety of everyone, we would -- we are restricted to the historical lighting that's
already provided and the covenants in EI Dorado, Bonito Subdivisions, with Winston
Moore and, then, we would -- I guess along with how that was resolved in the other
situations for the residents, we would follow those same -- same suggestions
recommended. I guess that's the only information I have to offer, really. So, once we
got to that point it would be - we would be able to --
De Weerd: Any other questions from Council?
Bird: I have none, Mayor.
Meridian City Council
May 10, 2005
Page 20 of 37
Baird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Baird.
Baird: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, a question was raised about whether or
not the pathway would be lit. The license agreements that we have been seeing from
Nampa-Meridian Irrigation District require us to put in an open and a closing time for
those pathways and they are usually closed a half hour after sunset and opened up a
half hour before sunrise. Therefore, because they are closed and not intended for use
at night, there wouldn't be any lighting on the pathway. Just want to make sure the
record was clear on that.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Council, do you feel comfortable with our planning
director's suggestion on having a light meter -- see if that -- if the downlighting is
adequate to -- to light that middle parking aisle?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I have no problem. I think you got a couple people that either want to readdress
the lighting or something. I think they think that something was said at the meeting that
hasn't been -- crossing it right now.
Rountree: I'm fine with that suggestion.
Bird: I am, too.
De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Burrows, if you're okay with -- we will ask Mr. Hornbaker up. I'm
sorry. If you will, please, just restate your name for the record.
Hornbaker: It's Loren Hornbaker, 2918 East Green Canyon Drive. And I believe what
started this whole problem was that we were under the understanding .- we had
streetlights in our -- in our subdivision. They bother no one. And we were under the
understanding when this subdivision went in, that they would put in down-lighting. In
other words, canned lights that shine down. Instead, they elected to put in a globe light
and, therefore, at 10:00, 11 :00 o'clock at night in my bedroom you could read the
newspaper and I called Jonathan Seal to my house at that time. I mean I made
arrangements, he come out, and he agreed with me. So, they put shields in these
globe lights and they said they went to the expense of about 400 dollars a light. How
many they did it on I'm not sure. It helped about a nickel's worth. I really couldn't see
that much change and what we don't want is those type of lights migrating up closer to
our houses, because it will be a real problem. Possibly a canned light or one that
shines directly down, if they need one, in a parking lot. We would have no objection to
that, as long as it doesn't light up the neighborhood 150 feet away. And that was the
problem before. I mean we are -- from Copperpoint I'd say we were three -- 250 yards
Meridian City Councii
May 10, 2005
Page 21 of 37
and that shines in our bedroom and our living room, to the point where you can actually
read and I called and they said -- the enforcement officer told me that the rules were
that they couldn't shine to where they bothered people. In other words, where they
were a nuisance to people. So, that's all we are trying to do. And also Mr. Moore at the
meeting the other night guaranteed us that he would -- he said I'm not through on these
lights down here yet and I said, well, if a building is built that blocks that light from
coming to us, the problem is solved. I mean as far as my home. If it's the neighbor, he
might still have a complaint. I don't know. But I don't know how much more they can do
with those globe lights. I'm not that well versed on them. But that's alii had. But that's
how the whole deal on the lighting progressed.
De Weerd: Well, I think Mr. Moore is correct in that the buildings are going to help
shield that. It will be a deterrent from any glare that you get from Copperpoint and I
guess what we can ask staff -- if it gets to the point where there will have to be some
light added to that one point, that perhaps we can ask staff to notify the neighbors and
you can be part of that -- that discussion, so - and I understand where there is
subdivision requirements, that, you know, this developer only has that to work within.
So, if it gets to that point, they certainly should involve you in the discussion.
Hornbaker: And we don't want to -- I want it to be safe over there for the people, you
know, and I think, hopefully -- and we are dreaming, possibly -- we are hoping that it's
doctor's offices and dentist's offices and things of that nature, which won't have that
much late evening or night activity, but -- and, hopefully, that's what we get.
De Weerd: Well, having it well lit is going to benefit your neighbor. I mean if it is dark in
that area, usually things gravitate towards dark spots. So, we will ask that staff, if that
does need some light mitigation, that they involve you in that discussion.
Hornbaker: Okay. Fine.
Canning: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Anna.
Canning: Given the comments that I heard tonight, I, instead, recommend the following
condition of approval, because this is what I have heard. Any lighting shall be fully
shielded, with no light going above 15 degrees below horizontal. So, it's basically, if you
have got horizontal here, then, you can't go above that. And that's the problem with the
current globe light and, then, in specifically no globe lighting. That should address the
applicant's concerns and there are numerous light bulbs out there that can meet those
standards quite easily. It's just that I think the problem with the current ones, it says it
has to be shielded. Well, it's technically shielded now, but it doesn't talk about that
lighting going above the horizontal and that's where the problem resides. And the other
qualification that could be put on there is exposed lamp. And that should meet all their
concerns.
Meridian City Council
May 10. 2005
Page 22 of 37
De Weerd: Okay. Is there any further testimony on this application? Mr. Burrows,
would you like to provide any final comment? Okay. Was that suggestion satisfactory
to you? Okay. Council?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we close Public Hearing Item No. 11.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. The motion is to close Item 11, Public Hearing. All those in favor say
aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
De Weerd: Is there any discussion?
Wardle: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: Just a clarification for staff. Would -- if indicated in the motion, would that be a
minor change to the findings and be able to be done at staff level, or would you need to
bring the findings back before us?
Canning: I think the language I provided was specific enough that if you're -- if you're
comfortable with that, we could just make the corrections at the staff level.
Wardle: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: With that, I move that we approve Item No. 11, PP 05-010 for Bonito
Subdivision No.3, and to include staff comments, specifically related to the lighting
within the development and to add that specific language to the findings in condition of
specific lighting types, as well as angles of light and exposables.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Thank you. The motion is to approve Item 11 with the change as stated.
Canning: Madam Mayor, can I ask for a clarification? Does that include the desire for
the applicant to show photometrics at the soffit lighting and, then, provide any other
lighting or do you just --
Meridian City Council
May 10, 2005
Page 23 of 37
Wardle: It does. The direction would be if there is sufficient lighting to stay with the
applicant's desire to have building lighting within the soffits, but if required by the
planning director's determination, that any parking lot lights are needed, then, they
follow those directions.
Canning: Thank you, sir.
De Weerd: Does second agree? Yes?
Rountree: Yes.
De Weerd: Thank you. Mr. Berg, will you, please, call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Donnell, absent.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 12:
Public Hearing: RZ 05-003 Request for a Rezone of 4.42 acres from a
R-8 PD zone to a CoN zone for Quenzer Commons Commercial by
Landmark Properties, LLC - west of Locust Grove Road and north of
Heritage Park:
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Item 12 is Public Hearing RZ 05-003. I will open the
Public Hearing with staff comments.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is Quenzer Commons
Commercial. It's located off of Locust Grove Road, about at the mid mile, and it is a
rezone application of 4.42 acres from R-8 to CoN. The zoning will make this use
consistent with the approved planned development, as we have discussed before. The
prior direction had been to kind of stay with the underlying zoning of the planned
development. In implementation of that we now find that it's much easier to actually
have the correct zoning on those properties when they go to get loans and construction
funding and things like that. So, it's a rather straight forward proposal. As you can see,
the full site - there is four existing lots with pared buildings. This rezone would allow
them to come in and do a final plat and, then, a re-subdivision that would allow future
development of similar buildings. So, the buildings they are proposing at a later time
will be consistent with the ones that are currently there. P&Z has recommended
approval. The key issues of discussion were the architectural design and layout of the
four new buildings. A bus stop easement on Locust Grove that was originally approved
or required as part of the preliminary plat, it has been provided, it's just not constructed
at this time. And, then, a commercial drive for a cross-access to the south. As you can
note, this application does not actually join that property to the south, so that it was
deemed not to be an issue for this rezone application. And that's the end of staff's
presentation.
Meridian City Council
May 10. 2005
Page 24 of 37
De Weerd: Thank you, Anna. Is the applicant here? If you will, please, state your
name and address for the record.
Oliver: Peter Oliver, 12601 West Explorer Drive.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Oliver: We are in agreement with the Findings of Fact and the feedback from the staff
and we are prepared to move forward based on that.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, do you have any questions for the applicant or staff? Okay.
Thank you. Is there anyone who would like to provide testimony on this application?
Now, come on, you come here time after time. I think you must have earned the most
credit of anyone in your high school. Oh, you even did the pledge. You should -- or
even more credit on this one.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, hearing no further comments, I move we close the Public
Hearing.
Wardle: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. The motion is to close the Public Hearing on Item 12. All those in
favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: If there is no discussion, I move that we approve Item No. 12, including staff
comments and -- are their findings on this? And findings.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. The motion is to approve Item 12. If there is no further discussion,
Mr. Berg, will you call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Donnell, absent.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 13:
Presentation Update on North Meridian Plan Project:
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Item 13. Mr. Hawkins-Clark.
Meridian City Councii
May 10, 2005
Page 25 of 37
Hawkins-Clark: Thank you, Mayor, Members of the Council. I think the goal of having
this item on the agenda tonight was just to bring you up to date on our North Meridian
Plan Comprehensive Plan update. We have -- as you know, about two months ago
staff presented a schedule on updating our Comp Plan and we are moving along. It's
sometimes nice in the Planning and Zoning Department to do planning, so this is kind of
a nice -- a nice focus for us right now. The first main public input on this is going to be
this coming Monday night, the 16th, at Sawtooth Middle School. It's going to be held in
the cafeteria, 6:00 to 8:00 p.m., and as far as noticing it, a press release did go out to
both the Idaho Statesman and Valley Times. We also sent about 65 to 70 invitations
directly to property owners, who are larger property owners, which, in this case, we
deemed 40 acres or larger. So, anyone in the area that is in the plan and the
amendment, who had property 40 acres or larger, did get a direct invitation to this
meeting Monday night. The meeting is going to actually have a couple of different
focuses. What Anna just put up on the screen right now, it's -- sorry, just didn't work for
me tonight to get this onto a smaller version, but we have two different areas that we
are proposing to expand our area of city impact. So, this first -- this first one, this is
Chinden, Highway 20-26, Linder Road on the east, and, then, McDermott on the west.
You saw this when Public Works presented several months ago when I believe it was
JUB Engineers who did their sewer analysis for this area coming up Black Cat from the
future lift station area. So, this boundary is the same boundary. The Phyllis Canal is
the large canal there on the north end that would provide the break right at the bluff.
This area has had some discussion about being in Eagle's area of city impact. Today
it's not formally in anyone's, so the request that we currently have at Ada County to the
county commissioners, their direction back to us, part of that letter to renegotiate our
area of city impact was, you know, to come back to them with a Comprehensive Plan
amendment, so -- so this would be the first area that we would show. While it's not
necessarily a public -- you know, directly a public input in terms of a Comp Plan
amendment, these area of city impacts are, as you know, mostly just a negotiated thing.
We did want to show it and get some feedback from the public. There are four large
property owners that have almost 300 acres that staff has been in communication with
and they have given us some preliminary maps of what they would like to have with
their properties. Most of that is around the Spur Wing golf course and to the west of
that. This area that's right on Linder Road, both at the corner and, then, these five acre
and one acre lot subdivisions, frankly, we anticipate opposition from those property
owners, but they are included in this area. So, the second area that we are proposing
to have shown Monday night as an expansion area is this four square mile area
bounded by Ustick Road on the south, Can-Ada Road on the west, and Chinden on the
north. Star's referral area is on the north of that and, then, Canyon county borders it.
Nampa city has a proposed area of city impact change to Canyon county to come up to
Ustick. Today it's actually Canyon County there as well. I do not believe that that's
been finalized, but I could be wrong on that. So, I just -- ultimately it could be Nampa
adjacent there, but today it's all County. So, anyway, as far Monday night, those two --
those would be the areas for expansion of our area of city impact, soliciting input from
property owners on the -- on some potential land uses. Now, obviously, there are huge
assumptions that we will be presenting -- there will be about a 20 minute presentation
that staff will be making at the beginning of that, just to kind of familiarize people, so
Meridian City Council
May 10. 2005
Page 28 of 37
they don't just walk around wondering what's going on, but one of those assumptions
that we are going to present there is, you know, that State Highway 16 extension and
how that will influence this area. Our understanding is from the time that -- if the funding
becomes available, ITD has to do an environmental impact study, you know, it could be
minimum three years and even, then, ITD, as a part of that study, what staff has been
told, does not know what that alignment's going to be and they need to keep open some
room there, so -- in terms of the alignment. So, while McDermott may be our
preference, nobody knows. And how does that affect this coming into Meridian or not, I
guess, is a big question and our proposal is to -- even if we do bring this in, this four
miles in, is to keep it as a second tier in terms of a growth priority and not allow
development until that alignment of 16 is known. We will also talk about the scope of
the plan, give some area demographics at the meeting, and there is a questionnaire that
we have prepared primarily geared towards the large property owners, but, obviously,
we will want to receive feedback from everyone that attends. There is several other
transportation assumptions, since we are including a transportation element in this. We
are not including funding as a part of that in terms of how will the transportation
improvements get funded in any kind of expedited manner. I know that the Mayor has
had some discussions with us staff and ACHD and there is -- originally, as part of this
north Meridian plan that Mr. Wardle did, but we are focused on the system itself, not the
funding of that system in this plan update, unless you guide us otherwise. We are -- we
are assuming JUB -- they did a corridor study in 2000 that focused on collectors up here
and we anticipate using some of those assumptions, which mainly was that there will be
mid mile signals ultimately and that the collectors up here, while we don't want them to
go necessarily straight across through the whole mile, we do want to -- you know, we
would likely designate the fact that we want collectors in those miles to basically serve
from one arterial to another arterial. It may break down into the local system, you know,
once you get into the mile, but, anyway, that JUB study, we are assuming that that's
valid. While this Council, remember, had formally adopted it, it was presented to both
here and ACHD about four years ago and so including that, as well as the Washington
Group International did a large traffic impact study as part of the north Meridian plan
and there is some assumptions in there that we will also bring forth. So, just one
question is if you have direction that you'd like staff to present at the open house on
Monday, since it is the first public meeting, do you -- you know, if you'd like to have
certain things presented or anything that I have said tonight that you are uncomfortable
with and don't want presented as well. So, that's -- like some feedback, if possible.
De Weerd: Council?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: The point you made on the large lots there off of Linder that some of those
folks were probably going to object, it seems to me preplanning for that is if you put
together a handout or a fact sheet of the advantages and disadvantages of an impact
area, that -- I see no disadvantage to those folks being in anybody's impact area. It
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doesn't change their taxes, it doesn't change anything. It doesn't change their status as
a country environment -- county environment. On the other side of the coin, at some
point in time their wells are not going to produce as much as maybe now, they may
become contaminated, their septic systems may go soft on them and there are some
advantages of at least having somebody claiming them, that if they get in those
situations that they could come to the City of Meridian and seek some solutions and
help for them. Other than that, I think you need to make that clear to those folks and
pre-think some of the issues they might have or might dream up about there being
disadvantages of being an impact area and I know I can't think of any if you can, but it
would be good to tell them, well, yeah, here is some things that might make your life a
little different, but if there are none, say there aren't any. The other thing that I would
have to go back and read the statute and I'm going to, because I'm going to ask the
question, is there any reason why we cannot request our impact area to go into Canyon
county?
Canning: Madam Mayor, Councilmember -- Councilmen, to my understanding there is
not and I think there are some areas that have done it in Idaho, but I think that the issue
becomes the taxing rates would be different for Canyon county than they would for Ada
County, so you would have different Meridian citizens having a different tax structure,
based on which county they were in. Also fire service becomes an issue, because the
fire district boundaries don't change as -- not that changing an area of city impact
boundary is easy, but I think the fire district boundaries are equally difficult to change.
So, for some of those reasons we had not considered going into Canyon county and I
do know that Nampa's -- that request to expand their area of city impact has been out
there awhile. I think it may have already been approved to go up to the county line
there.
Rountree: I don't want to belabor this, but just to help me understand, it seems to me
that the county tax rate would stay at the county tax rate, but if it were to become part of
the City of Meridian in Canyon county, their tax rate would be that of -- or a mill levy
would that of Meridian, not Nampa. So, those folks that have property there in Canyon
county, if they were, in fact, to become part of Meridian, would have a lower property
tax, would they not?
Bird: True. Very true.
Canning: If Meridian's is lower than Nampa's, then, that would be true.
Rountree: I'm not sure ours are higher than anybody's. So, I just -- a point of
clarification. Thank you. I'm not asking that, I just needed to know that. I guess the last
comment I would make on the area to the west in terms of transportation corridors, if the
City of Meridian has a preference for the location of -- future location of State Highway
16, I will remind you that the federal government has no business in local land use
planning period. They have recognized that. Courts have held that. If Meridian says
this is where we would like it, that would weigh in any analysis done as required by any
federal future funding. So, if it's in the middle of this section or down the road or down
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May 10, 2005
Page 28 of 37
somewhere that fits with the City of Meridian's future look, fit, and feel, then, it's okay to
put that in your Comp Plan.
De Weerd: Thank you. We will do that. Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: Madam Mayor, just a comment on the properties west and adding those into
areas of impact. I know that Star has some serviceability issues in that area and has
the potential, at least in the future, to develop into some sort of a commercial corridor in
the Star Road Chinden area intersections and so fitting with Meridian's Comprehensive
Plan to set up neighborhood centers and to set up serviceability within areas of the city,
I think it's prudent for us to at least look at that as a possibility, both from a planning
perspective, as well as a serviceability to the property owners and how it best fits into
our plan, so --
Hawkins-Clark: Councilmember, just to clarify, are you saying particularly at that
Chinden-Star intersection where Star already has that designated commercial today in
their comp plan, but --
Wardle: The north side.
Hawkins-Clark: Yeah. They have the northeast quadrant there, are you saying in terms
of -- for us to look at a commercial designation to match what theirs is? Is that what I'm
hearing you say?
Wardle: I would say that it certainly would fit, given the traffic counts, given the open
nature of the area, as is currently built, given the lack of dense housing that surrounds
that intersection, I think it probably will -- will come to bear in the market a commercial
designation and so we need to take that into consideration from a planning perspective.
Canning: Madam Mayor, President Wardle, can I ask a follow-up question?
Wardle: Sure.
Canning: If there is an intersection of two state highways at Chinden and McMillan,
there will be enormously heavy pressure to have commercial uses at that intersection
and I just wondered if you would want to comment on that.
Wardle: At Chinden and McMillan?
Canning: McDermott. Sorry.
Wardle: Well, the reality is that you still have the river crossing at Star Road, so you'll
still have -- regardless of how the transportation flows, even if you have that large state
highway determination on McDemott, which would typically drive commercial property
through the market. You'll, additionally, have that access down the hill and over the
river from Star -- from Star Road. Does that make sense, Anna?
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Canning: Yes, sir. I was not -- I was not disputing the interest at Star Road, I just
wondered if you would comment -- if you feel it would be appropriate to have
commercial at the intersection of McDermott and Chinden or if you feel that should be
kept a lower intensity use and shift the emphasis to both Star and Chinden.
Wardle: My personal opinion would be that it depends on how that highway plays out.
If it's going to be an elevated overpass over Chinden, then, certainly, your access to
commercial areas would be limited. It certainly is worth the discussion and to find some
public input as to which would be -- which intersection should hold the more intensive
commercial use I think is what we are asking. We are going to have commercial activity
up and down that corridor and at the major intersections and so the question that I
would pose to the public is which of those should hold the higher density retail uses, I
think is what we need to ask.
Canning: Okay.
De Weerd: I guess it all depends on -- I know we want to designate McDermott as that
connection to -- or the extension of Highway 16. It's going to be more of a how you're
going to connect from 16 to McDermott and it will be before -- north of Chinden or south
of Chinden. So, I guess -- because that's a pretty sharp angle. It will be an issue of
design at that point. Those are good points. Are there any other discussion items on
this?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Well, thank you. We wish you success on Monday and hopefully we get
some good comments. I appreciate Councilman Rountree's statements about the -- I
think it's Almaden -- Almaden, the residents there off of Linder Road. I believe that they
are not disadvantaged at all being brought into anyone's area of impact. It's only when
they are going to need service, who can service them, and that's a good -- good point to
make. Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I was going to say the same thing about the Spur Wing folks.
I suspect you might see some opposition there. I would hope, though, that if you have
them represented that it's an opportunity to just maybe get a sense from them -- maybe
they aren't opposed to being part of this city. It certainly would make this thing a whole
lot easier if that whole area -- if we ultimately get there, will become part of the city --
and I'm not just saying that because of the tax base, I mean we have to carve it out if
they don't want to be, and I - I don't know, it would be worth maybe just taking a pulse
of that from those folks that might take the time to come.
De Weerd: There has been a pulse taken of the residents in Spur Wing.
Rountree: Okay,
Meridian City Councii
May 10, 2005
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De Weerd: And it looks like about 75 percent have support to Meridian's area of impact.
Again, I think that the same message would apply to them as the other subdivision, is
they are looking long term when septics fail, who will have the services
available and I believe that's been the message that has been delivered to them.
Rountree: Because we see them more likely getting in that situation with the lot sizes
that they are dealing with.
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Canning: Madam Mayor, just a quick statement. To my knowledge, from my
conversations with some of those property owners, is they perceive -- it's not an issue of
which area - or going into an impact area or not, it's which one and they perceive that
an Eagle address will somehow be more advantageous in the future and I think that if
we do layout some of the tax burdens and service, the burden of getting services from
the City of Eagle, I think that that may sway quite a few of them to understand that there
are many more advantages to a Meridian address.
De Weerd: Well -- and looking at my calendar, it looks like Anna and I will be meeting
with Eagle on Friday.
Canning: 1 :00 o'clock.
De Weerd: Great way to end Friday the 13th. Is there anything further, Council?
Rountree: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you, Brad.
Hawkins-Clark: Thank you. Keep you updated.
Item 14:
Ordinance No. 05-1152 : AZ 05-006 Request for Annexation
and Zoning of 76.29 acres from RUT to R-4 zone for Zebulon Heiahts
Subdivision No.2 by Traditions by Amyx II, LLP - south of East McMillan
Road and east of North Locust Grove Road:
Item 15:
Ordinance No. 05-1153 : AZ 04-029 Request for an Annexation
and Zoning of 8.58 acres from RUT zone to CoG zone for Cottonwood
Lane by Tom Holliday/Cottonwood Lane Partners - 985 East Freeway
Drive:
De Weerd: Okay. Items 14 and 15 are ordinances number 05-1152 and 05-1153. Mr.
Berg, will you, please, read these two ordinances by title only.
Berg: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Ordinance No. 05-1152, an
Ordinance, Zebulon Heights Subdivision No.2 for property located in the northeast
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May 10, 2005
Page 31 of 37
quarter of Section 32, Township 4 North, Range 1 East of the Boise Meridian, Ada
County, Idaho, as described in Attachment A and annexing certain lands and territories
situated in Ada County, Idaho, and adjacent and contiguous to the corporate limits of
the City of Meridian, as requested by the City of Meridian, establishing and determining
the land use zoning classification of said lands from RUT, Ada County, to R-4, Medium
Density in the Meridian City Code, providing that copies of the ordinance shall be filed
with the Ada County assessor, the Ada County recorder, the Idaho State Tax
Commission as required by law and providing for a summary of the ordinance and
providing for a waiver of the reading rules and providing an effective date.
Berg: Ordinance No. 05-1153, an ordinance Cottonwood Lane for annexation of
property located within a portion of Lot 23, Block 1, of amended Magic View Subdivision
as shown on the official plat recorded in Book 52 of plats, at pages 4445 and 4446,
records of Ada County, Idaho, a portion of the east half of Section 17, Township 3
North, Range 1 East of Boise Meridian, Ada County, Idaho, as described in Attachment
A and annexing certain lands and territories situated in Ada County, Idaho, and adjacent
and contiguous to the corporate city limits of the City of Meridian, as requested by the
City of Meridian, establishing and determining the land use zoning classification of said
lands from RUT, Ada County, to CoG, General Retail and Service Commercial and L-O,
Limited Office, in the Meridian City Code, providing that copies of this ordinance shall be
filed with the Ada County assessor, the Ada County recorder and the Idaho State Tax
Commission as required by law and providing for a summary of the ordinance and
providing for a waiver of the reading rules and providing an effective date.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Berg. You have heard these two ordinances read by title
only. Is there anyone who would like to hear them read in its entirety? Hearing none,
Council?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we approve Ordinances 05-1152 and 05-1153, with suspension of rules.
Wardle: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. We have a motion to approve Items 14 and 15. If there is no further
discussion, Mr. Berg, will you, please, call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird. yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Donnell, absent.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 16:
EMS Agreement.
Meridian City Councii
May 10, 2005
Page 32 of 37
De Weerd: Council, I would like to add another item to your agenda for --
Bird: We already added an Item 16.
De Weerd: Oh, have I?
Bird: We have.
De Weerd: Oh, have you?
Bird: We added an EMS decision.
De Weerd: Okay.
Bird: So that we don't hang our fire department out to dry.
De Weerd: Okay.
Bird: And I will start with telling you that rural fire district last night voted unanimously to
not support the bond issue at all. Be against it.
De Weerd: So, it was to be against it and not to be neutral?
Bird: That's right. Neutrality -- and I agree with them, neutrality shows -- if you say
nothing, it probably shows you support it. While I've got the floor, I will give you my deal
-- my view and my view is that I would be for it if they can prove to me that they need
the money that they are asking for. When I asked Troy Hagen for -- that's what I asked
him for when he was here and what we got was a bunch of garbage. I cannot -- I have
to agree with the rural district, I cannot support it, what they are asking for.
De Weerd: Mr. Bird, I did place a call today to ask for the financial information that you
have requested and I haven't heard back from Mr. Hagen, so --
Bird: They don't have it. That's the reason it isn't being published. You and I both
know that. I will state it publicly.
De Weerd: Is there any other discussion on this item?
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I don't have any discussion, but I'm wondering if Assistant
Chief Johnson has a comment on there or maybe he can -- or maybe not -- be able to
speak for the chief on this particular issue. Not to put you on the spot, but --
Johnson: But I'm on the spot.
Rountree: But you're on the spot. Certainly, it's going to impact you potentially.
Meridian City Councii
May 10, 2005
Page 33 of 37
Johnson: In my discussions, Madam -- Madam Mayor and Members of the Council, in
my discussions with Chief Anderson, he's kind of talked the same way. If we go neutral
we are kind of in support of it, but what are some of the future ramifications of an aye
vote for this, being that we raise our taxes now in a temporary deal, they have got this
new legislation they just passed that goes into effect in July, where they can come back
with basically a deal saying we want to make this temporary raise in your taxes
permanent and not show us any efficiencies being built into the system. You know, it's
not that we have a bad system in Ada County right now, it's the fact that we have got an
inefficient system and if we give them this open checkbook, we may continue down that
line of having inefficiencies built into the system.
De Weerd: I guess, Council, we are in the process of putting on firefighter paramedics
and a partnership with Ada County EMS is very critical. We are looking at a countywide
training program and this partnership, you know, certainly I don't want to see it get
compromised. We also had written in a letter, as I have provided you several weeks
ago, saying that we would be a partner to them, if they chose not to dissolve the district
and would go out, take this to the voters. Certainly, it wasn't our dictate what they
brought to the voters. We told them at that time we felt that the voters should have an
opportunity to have a say, rather than they dissolve the district without the vote of the
people. And that was the city's position at that time. I don't know if a motion from this
Council against what we asked them to do would affect the partnership that we need to
move forward with in our attempt to provide adequate medical service to our community
and bringing on the firefighter paramedics.
Wardle: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: Let me first say that a partnership with the Ada County EMS and a partnership
within all of the public safety agencies in this county should be expected and the
citizens demand it, regardless of any type of political decision that this Council may
make or that the commissioners may make. I don't think that that should weight into our
decision period. The people expect it and there needs to be that cooperation and so I
just want to state that -- that politically we have the ability to make whichever decision
may be, but that shouldn't -- shouldn't come into consideration. That said, my personal
opinion is that I definitely had some -- some decision -- or, excuse me, some -- some
clarification needed, still have some unanswered questions, and certainly the questions
in my mind would not allow me to go forward with a - with a positive support of this.
But, at the same time, I need some more input from our people that are on the ground in
the fire department as to -- as to whether we need to take the stance as a -- as a
dissension of this.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Meridian City Council
May 10, 2005
Page 34 of 37
Rountree: I have reservations about supporting the amount. I'm fully supportive of the
vote, as our previous position. I think we certainly ought to let the county know that we
appreciate that they have done that and will have an election. But this whole issue on
emergency services and particularly ambulance services has yet gotten even more
murky with the additional providers coming into the market from the hospitals and I got
to think that they are in the business not to lose money, since they are nonprofit, but
they still have to keep their doors open, and that there are private ambulance services
available in Ada County that are in the business to make money, that we are not getting
all the information that we need in order make a decent decision about the business of
providing emergency services in Ada County and I think whatever small voice from
whatever corner of the county it is, I think the county commissioners owe this a more
thorough look, possibly, before they go to a vote. To me, the general population out
there is either going to be uninformed and scared and vote for it or uninformed and
upset with yet another tax increase and vote against it. Unfortunately, I think you
probably see more againers than supporters and I believe that will be based on bad
information. I would like to think and support what Councilman Wardle said about this
situation, it is all of our responsibilities to provide the best government and to me
everybody in this game needs to drop the turf -- we should demand of our police and
our fire to be fully cooperative, as should every other entity in this county, as well as the
county, and say let's quit fighting and let's quit worrying about what's mine and what's
yours and let's provide to our citizens what they deserve and what they are paying
plenty to get right now. So, having said that, I'm still supportive of supporting the idea of
taking this to the public to vote, but I cannot support the level of increase that's being
asked for, because I don't have -- Troy has as much admitted that what they are asking
for will give them sufficient reserves and I don't think we are looking for reserves.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: And I think myself and -- I know myself and I think Councilman Wardle are the
same way, I mean we -- I just can't support it, because they haven't come out and
showed me why they need it and I just -- you know, I just can't see throwing taxes upon
taxes for these -- for our patrons and, think back, we have been promised for seven
years that I know of to have an ambulance in one of our fire stations and, you know
what, you know when we got that ambulance, the day we announced that we were
going to hire paramedics. And, by the way, I will tell you, Council and Mayor, that we
have -- I think Mr. Johnson can verify this, but we have 17 qualified paramedics that
have applied and they are experienced paramedics, as I understand, that have applied
for our 12 openings.
Johnson: Members of the Council, Madam Mayor, a point of clarification on that. They
took our test, had their scores submitted to us, the applications actually close this
Friday. So, we will have a better number -- or, actually, on the 13th on those. But
preliminarily it looks like 17 experienced medics have passed the test from all across
Meridian City Council
May 10, 2005
Page 35 of 37
the nation, actually. Some from here and Ada County, some from Washington, Florida,
Nevada, Oregon. So, got a pretty good round mix it looks like.
De Weerd: Well, Council, it sounds like everyone's on the same page in terms of there
is not enough information and the information we requested has not been received and
whether it's available or not, it's not our guess. I certainly can send a letter to the
commissioners in appreciation that the issue is going to the voters, of our concern that
it's going to the voters without enough information, because certainly we haven't been
getting the information that we have requested, and that we cannot support it at this
time or, you know, we can't make a decision -- I don't know what you want me to do
after that point. We can't support it at this time, because we don't have enough
information --
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I guess the language would be along the lines of at this point
in time we can't support the size of the increase being requested in the initiative,
because of the reasons you just said, we have asked for the information and not
received it. The only information we have from the county and the county
representative, is that it will be more than sufficient and create a reserve and there has
been no information provided how the rest of the ambulance services will factor into
providing for our citizens.
De Weerd: Well, there is no plan of service.
Rountree: Yeah.
Bird: There is really no plan. They are just out there throwing figures out asking for
some figures with no way of -- you know.
Rountree: And I'm sure the commissioners know way more than we do in terms of, you
know, they are right there in the thick of it. But I don't believe they have done very good
outreach if we are looking at an election next week.
Bird: The 24th.
Rountree: The 24th. Two weeks. No. Yeah. Two weeks. I guess I have been out of
town a lot. I don't know if there has been anything in the paper of any substance, but --
Wardle: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: And I agree with everything that Councilman Rountree and Councilman Bird
have said, but the one concern I have is -- is that we not -- if we send a response such
as this, that we not get the flood of information on -- at the last hour. We have
requested it, we have requested information, we have done, in my opinion, what I feel is
Meridian City Council
May 10, 2005
Page 36 of 37
due diligence on the part of our constituents in representing our position well. So, I'm --
that's where we are at. We have what we have and are unable to take a position --
Rountree: Well, Madam Mayor, I guess my position is that we are, at this point, unable
to -- we are not neutral, we are not able to endorse the tax increase.
Bird: This Councilman agrees.
De Weerd: Okay.
Bird: And Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Bird.
Bird: You need to sit down with the fire chief and -- because I know that he is getting
daily requests from media on this and you need to let him know your -- our position.
De Weerd: I have -- I have been as well. We will draft this letter and get it out to you for
your review and ask for your signatures next week at Tuesday's meeting and it will,
then, be sent.
Bird: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Is there any further discussion on this item?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Item 17:
Executive Session:
Rountree: Knowing that you're going to add yet another item to our agenda this
evening, I would move that we go into Executive Session per State Statute for paren
item Band C and that it will be a short Executive Session and we will be back in session
no later than 9:05.
Bird: I would second that, if we stick to it.
De Weerd: That's an interesting motion.
Wardle: I would have said 9:00.
Meridian City Councii
May 10, 2005
Page 37 of 37
Bird: I agree.
De Weerd: Mr. Berg, will you, please, call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Donnell, absent.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
EXECUTIVE SESSION:
De Weerd: Okay, I would entertain a motion to come out of Executive Session.
Wardle: So moved.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Okay, all those in favor say aye.
THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT. MOTION CARRIED.
De Weerd: Motion to adjourn?
Rountree: So moved.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: All those in favor?
THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT. MOTION CARRIED.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 9:35 P.M.
~~ ()~
DATE APPROVED