HomeMy WebLinkAbout2019-06-04 RegularMeridian City Council June 4, 2019.
A Meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 6:00 p.m., Tuesday, June
4, 2019, by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Tammy de Weerd, Joe Borton, Ty Palmer, Genesis Milam, Anne Little
Roberts and Treg Bernt.
Members Absent: Luke Cavener.
Also present: Chris Johnson, Bill Nary, Bill Parsons, Sonya Allen, Kevin Holmes, Clint
Dolsby, Scott Colaianni, Joe Bongiorno and Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll-call Attendance:
Roll call.
X__ Anne Little Roberts X _ _Joe Borton
X__ Ty Palmer X__ Treg Bernt
__X___Genesis Milam ______Lucas Cavener
__X__ Mayor Tammy de Weerd
De Weerd: Okay. Good evening. I'm going to go ahead and call our meeting to order.
Thank you so much for joining us. For the record this is our City Council regular meeting
agenda. We will start with roll call attendance, Mr. Clerk.
Item 2: Pledge of Allegiance
De Weerd: Item No. 2 is the Pledge of Allegiance. If you will all rise and join us in the
pledge to our flag.
(Pledge of Allegiance recited.)
Item 3: Community Invocation by Michael Pearson of Seventh Day Adventist
Church
De Weerd: Item No. 3 is our community invocation. Tonight we will be led by Pastor
Michael Pearson. He is with Seventh-Day Adventist Church on Black Cat. If you will join
us for the community invocation or take this as an opportunity for a moment of reflection.
Thank you for joining us.
Pearson: Thank you. Eternal Father, we want to thank you that it is your desire to mingle
with men and so we invite your wisdom and your knowledge into this Council chamber
this evening, that you will bless the Council -- the Councilors and the Mayor, city officials
and public, as we look to be improve -- continued improvement of the City of Meridian
and so thank you for being free with your blessings, we pray in Jesus' name, amen.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda June 11, 2019 – Page 28 of 396
Meridian City Council
June 4, 2019
Page 2 of 35
Item 4: Adoption of Agenda
De Weerd: Thank you, Pastor Michael. Item 4 is adoption of the agenda.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Move we adopt the agenda as published.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to adopt the agenda as published. All those in
favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 5: Announcements
De Weerd: Council, anything under Item 5?
Item 6: Future Meeting Topics - Public Forum (Up to 30 Minutes Maximum)
De Weerd: Okay. Item 6 is Future Meeting Topics. Mr. Clerk, any sign-ups?
Johnson: Madam Mayor, there were no sign-ins for this topic.
Item 7: Action Items
A. Appointment of City Clerk
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. So, we will move to Action Items. Item 7, our first item up
is the appointment of our City Clerk. Council, a couple months ago I brought to you Chris
Johnson's name as our interim City Clerk and tonight I am asking for your confirmation of
and appointment for -- to -- with -- remove the interim, as -- as I would like to appoint Chris
as our permanent City Clerk or as permanent as we can say permanent; right? And so,
Council, you have all had a chance to get to know Chris in this function as our City Clerk.
I can tell you that the feedback I received from those that work with Chris see a very
willing leader and someone that has looked for system improvements as he has stepped
into fill the shoes of our former city clerk C.Jay Coles and I -- I just would like to offer any
-- any questions or any comments and I will ask for your confirmation of this appointment.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda June 11, 2019 – Page 29 of 396
Meridian City Council
June 4, 2019
Page 3 of 35
Borton: Just a brief comment. I think it's a great appointment. I appreciate you bringing
it forward. I echo your sentiments about how Chris has tackled the role -- the interim role.
I think he will be a fantastic appointed clerk in this position. You have been and are open
minded and innovative and -- and kind of challenge us to look at things a different way
and do things better, which is a great perspective, as well as taking your role extremely
seriously and the responsibility very seriously, so I wholeheartedly support the
appointment of Chris Johnson as City Clerk. Well deserved.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: Was that a motion?
Borton: Madam Mayor, I move that we appoint Chris Johnson as the City Clerk for the
City of Meridian.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second and after we call roll I will ask Chris if he has
anything to say and I know he has some guests here to -- to be with him during -- excuse
me -- during this special moment. So, I will ask him to introduce -- so, anything further?
Mr. Clerk, will you, please, call roll.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, absent; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea;
Bernt, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Johnson: Madam Mayor --
De Weerd: Mr. Clerk.
Johnson: -- Members of Council, thank you for the opportunity. I came on board last
February 2018. I thank C.Jay for taking a chance, because I did not have the background
that he was probably looking for or expecting when he did the search, but I really learned
a lot from him, learned a lot from all of you and still have a lot to learn. So, I just look
forward to new challenges every week and trying to make the -- make the clerk's office
run as well as any clerk's office has and, then, with me tonight my wife and two children
are here. Candice Johnson and, then, Elijah Campbell and Ethann Campbell. Eli was
actually an intern last summer in our summer youth intern program working for John
Sweeney and Bill Young. So, he knows a lot more about the building than I do, so he's a
great -- great resource as well. But thank you for the opportunity.
De Weerd: Thank you, Chris. And congratulations. It was well deserved.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda June 11, 2019 – Page 30 of 396
Meridian City Council
June 4, 2019
Page 4 of 35
Johnson: Thank you.
B. Public Hearing for Main2Meridian (H-2019-0057) by Rennison
Engineering, Located at 703 and 713 N. Main St.
1. Request: Vacation of a portion of the public utilities and
drainage easement located on Lots 2 and 3, Block 1 of
Renewal Place Subdivision.
De Weerd: Okay. Item 7-B is a public hearing for Main2Meridian, H-2019-0057. I will
open this public hearing. For those that might be here tonight that are new to our process,
our public hearings -- we first have staff comments. We, then, ask the applicant for any
comments and they have 15 minutes to present their application. We, then, take public
testimony. Public testimony has a time limit of three minutes and there is a timer on the
computer screen, so you will be able to track your time and at the end of public testimony
we will ask if there are any remaining questions from -- well, we will have the applicant
answer any questions and have final remarks, ask Council for any final questions. If they
are ready to render a decision they will close the public hearing and just to note that there
is a packet of public documents that Council has had an opportunity to review prior to
coming here this evening and they have taken that under consideration as well. So, with
that said I'm going to turn this over to Kevin and -- for staff comments.
Holmes: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Council Members. This first item before you, Item
7-B, is the Main2Meridian vacation application. You may be familiar with this site, located
across the street here from City Hall at 703 and 713 North Main Street. The applicant is
requesting approval to vacate a ten foot wide public utilities and drainage easement
shown here in red, located on the Renewal Place Subdivision. All easement holders have
submitted written consent agreeing to vacate this portion of the easement. This vacation
is a condition of approval for the issue of the Certificate of Zoning Compliance and all the
drainage of the site is being reviewed with the submitted building permit applications.
With that staff does recommend approval of the vacation and will stand for questions.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions at this time? Is the applicant here? Good
evening. If you will, please, state your name and address for the record.
Appleby: I will. My name is Bryan Appleby. I work with Rennison Engineering at 410
East State Street, Suite 120, in Eagle.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Appleby: I have nothing further to add to this.
De Weerd: Okay. Well, thank you. Mr. Clerk, is there any citizen testimony that has
signed up?
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda June 11, 2019 – Page 31 of 396
Meridian City Council
June 4, 2019
Page 5 of 35
Johnson: Madam Mayor, there is not and, Council, if I may take this opportunity to let you
know -- we have had some public comments the last couple meetings asking for us to
read names into the testimony and what we were able to do, as we didn't want to really
go that route, we now have access on your desktops. If you're logged in you can see in
realtime those who have signed in, whether they have indicated to testify or not. So, we
will still read those and state the name -- the number of people that have signed up , but
you can go in and visualize that as well if you choose. But for this there is no sign-ins.
De Weerd: Thank you. And thank you for -- for doing that. Council, at the beginning
Chris will read -- if there is anyone signed up, give the total number and only read the
names that have indicated a desire to provide testimony. But you will be able to see all
those names that have signed up and it will be, then, part of your consideration. Yes, Mr.
Bernt.
Bernt: How do you get to where you're at right now?
De Weerd: You have to sign in.
Bernt: Okay. I'm in.
De Weerd: And --
Bernt: Go tutorial. On the spot. Thank you.
De Weerd: You bet. There should be an icon on your computer that says sign-in
dashboard. It's just a white box.
Bernt: Yep.
De Weerd: There you go.
Bernt: Thank you.
De Weerd: You're welcome. And thank you, Chris, for working to get that. Okay. This is
a public hearing. Is there anyone who wishes to provide testimony on this? Okay. Seeing
none.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Move that we close the public hearing on H-2019-0057.
Little Roberts: Second.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda June 11, 2019 – Page 32 of 396
Meridian City Council
June 4, 2019
Page 6 of 35
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. All those in favor
say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Move we approve H-2019-0057.
Little Roberts: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve H-2019-0057. Mr. Clerk, will you
call roll.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, absent; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea;
Bernt, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
C. Public Hearing for Creamline Park (H-2019-0060) by Volante
Investments, LLLP, Located at 48 & 71 NW 13th Place and 1220
& 1480 W. Franklin Rd.
1. Request: To Modify the Existing Development Agreement
(Inst. 107022431) consistent with the I-L zoning approved
with the rezone (H-2018-0051)
De Weerd: Item 7-C is a public hearing for H-2019-0060. I will open this public hearing
with staff comments.
Allen: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. The next application is a
development agreement modification. This site is located on the north side of West
Franklin Road just east of Linder Road. The applicant is requesting a modification to the
existing development agreement, consistent with the previously approved rezone of the
lots along Franklin Road from the C-G to the I-L zoning district. The current development
agreement allows for a mix of industrial and commercial uses as allowed in the C-G and
I-L zoning districts, except for the industrial zoned lots that abut residential properties to
the west on which certain uses are restricted. No development is proposed at this time.
However, the applicant plans to develop the lots that front on Franklin Road with
warehouse and/or flex space type uses. Only one of the lots on the northern portion of
the site is yet to develop. Staff is recommending all future structures comply with the
design standards listed in the architectural standards manual. Staff further recommends
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda June 11, 2019 – Page 33 of 396
Meridian City Council
June 4, 2019
Page 7 of 35
Lots 3 through 8, Block 1, comply with the nonresidential industrial standards and Lots 2
-- excuse me -- 1 through 2 and 9 through 10, Block 1, that front on West Franklin Road
comply with the nonresidential commercial standards and that those structures not have
any loading docks or roll up doors visible from a public street , since those structures will
be highly visible from an arterial street. What you have before you here is the markup of
the current development agreement provisions and those recommended by staff. The
applicant has submitted written testimony that he is in agreement with the staff
recommendation and there are no other additional written testimony submit ted on the
application. Staff is recommending approval per the staff report.
De Weerd: Thank you, Sonya. Council, any question? Okay. Would the applicant like
make comments? Good evening. If you will, please, state your name and address for
the record.
Van Auker: Madam Mayor, Ron Van Auker, Jr. 3084 East Lanark Street here in Meridian.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Van Auker: Really don't have any comments, but I didn't think I should just sit there. So,
if you have any questions I would be happy to answer them.
De Weerd: Thank you, Ron. Council, any questions for the applicant? Thank you for
joining us.
Van Auker: Thank you.
De Weerd: Mr. Clerk, were there any sign-ups?
Johnson: Madam Mayor, there are no sign-ups.
De Weerd: Okay. This is a public hearing. Is there anyone who wishes to provide
testimony? Okay. Seeing none, Council, any questions for the applicant or staff? If not,
I would entertain a motion to close the public hearing.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: I move that we close the public hearing for H-2019-0060.
Little Roberts: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. All those in favor
say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda June 11, 2019 – Page 34 of 396
Meridian City Council
June 4, 2019
Page 8 of 35
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: I move that we approve item 7-C, H-2019-0060.
Little Roberts: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 7-C. Council, any discussion?
Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, absent; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea;
Bernt, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
D. Impact Fee Public Hearing - Combined Hearing on Proposed
Amendments to the Impact Fee Capital Improvements Plan and
Proposed Amendments to the Development Impact Fees for
Police, Fire, and Parks
De Weerd: Item 7-D is the impact fee public hearing. It is the third reading of this
ordinance with the public hearing. So, we will open the public hearing portion and ask for
staff comments. I think our -- our CFO will be taking the podium. Thank you for joining,
Todd.
Lavoie: Madam Mayor, thank you for allowing us to present to you the impact fee study
and the public hearing. Members of the Council, tonight what we will do for you is we will
give you a quick review of what we presented to you a couple weeks ago in detail. We
had the consultant here, Dwayne Guthrie, from Raftelis. He presented to you the study
itself with all the details and presented a presentation for you and we had discussions
and dialogue during that meeting. Today I'm going to present to you jus t the study
highlights. We are going to have, again, Matt Adams from the committee. He is going to
be the spokesperson and give you some discussions on the impact fee study itself. And ,
then, again, we will open it up for public comment and answer any questions that you may
have. So, with that, the study highlights, this is straight from Dwayne's presentation. We
updated land use assumptions and development projections. We used our Community
Development Department to assist us with this. We documented all current infrastructure
standards and projected needs for the additional facilities, so Dwayne worked with the
committee members and along with the fire chief, the police chief and the director of parks
to make sure that we had all the infrastructure and the levels of service calculated
correctly. Dwayne had also recommended changing the residential fees per dwelling
based on size thresholds, as compared to what we currently have and we presented that
to you last time and, then, we also presented an idea to have two commercial fees,
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda June 11, 2019 – Page 35 of 396
Meridian City Council
June 4, 2019
Page 9 of 35
instead of the one current fee that we currently have today. I do want to remind you that
the committee worked with Raftelis in detail. The committee members worked with other
departments in detail for a number of weeks and months. Raftelis worked with Finance
throughout the process and the committee members are made up of your citizens of
Meridian and the business community themselves. The committee reviewed all the
documents, the infrastructure requests by Parks, Fire and Police. They asked questions
about the requests within the CIP or the CFP that we are familiar with. They approved
and felt that all the items with -- that were submitted within the CFP or the CIP within the
impact fees were acceptable and met the levels of services that we planned on achieving
for the next ten years. So, everything that you saw in the study was vetted through the
citizen group, the committee members, and also the consultants, along with all the
directors themselves. So, that's the study highlights. This here represents the proposal
that he presented to us as a city. So , Raftelis, along with the committee, presented this
impact fee proposed study approach. Again, we are moving towards a multi-tiered
residential approach and a two-tiered nonresidential approach. Our current existing fees
are over off to the right called existing total of 2013. Again, we only have one rate for
residential. We do have a different rate for multi-family. We are looking to eliminate that
separate multi-family and using square footage instead to calculate that. It was brought
to our attention that the ordinance isn't super clear on how the multi-family is calculated,
so I'm going to work with Bill and Ted to clean up the ordinance language, so it's nice and
clear on how multi-families are going to be calculated. Here it says residential will be
calculated per housing unit. There is an approach to it. What we will do is we will take
the total square footage of the climate controlled area of a total complex and divide it by
the total number of units and that will give us an average square footage of -- of the units
and, then, you will use -- use this chart to figure out what your fee would be. So, if the
average unit size is 1,200, you would, then, go into this chart and go, okay, I have one
hundred units at 1,200 square feet, rather than asking the developer -- telling me I have
73 one thousand square foot homes. I have got 17 two thousand square foot homes and
17 three thousand square foot homes. We are going to take the average climate
controlled area of the total facility, divided by total rooms -- again, average square footage
per unit and, then, apply that to this document. The ordinance itself isn't clear there , so
we are going to work on getting that nice and clear for anybody who reads it and
understands that it's how multi-family will be calculated. Do note like in years past if we
don't accept the total proposed fee structure we will be asking general property taxpayers
to subsidize the difference in the development as set forth. As the date -- as the data
shows here we are asking to go from about 2,017 dollars for residential to -- we are going
to use the 2,943 as our kind of baseline for you. We are asking for about 943 dollars
more per permit over and above what we are doing today, so -- so, what that -- that is the
slide presentation I have for you. I'm going to bring up Matt Adams, the spokesperson for
the Impact Fee Advisory Committee. He has a few slides that he wants to present to you.
Then after Matt's done we will stand for any questions from you guys and, then, we will
allow public, I assume, to give any questions for you. So, with that I will bring up Matt
Adams from the Impact Fee Advisory Committee.
De Weerd: Thank you, Todd.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda June 11, 2019 – Page 36 of 396
Meridian City Council
June 4, 2019
Page 10 of 35
Lavoie: Thank you.
De Weerd: Welcome, Matt.
Adams: Good evening. Sorry about that. Good evening. I'm Matthew Adams. I reside
at 1273 East Legacy View Drive in Meridian. 83646. I'm here this evening as a
representative of the citizen impact fee committee. I'm presenting to you tonight with no
personal agenda and no financial gain at stake in this process. I'm presenting to you the
opinion of our citizen committee. As stated at our previous hearing a couple weeks ago,
our committee did vote unanimously to send this report to you for adoption and I'm here
to present that opinion of the committee. Our opinion is the City Council, this Council,
should approve the impact fees as detailed in the study and as presented . The city of
Meridian must continue to invest in parks, fire and police infrastructure. To delay, reduce
or otherwise hinder this investment is irresponsible. It is irresponsible to the 114 ,680
current residents of the city. It is irresponsible to the people that are sure to move to our
fine city in the future. And it is irresponsible to our dedicated Parks, Fire and Police
personnel. Reduced impact fee revenue can result in falling behind. The city of Twin
Falls, south of us, has fallen behind. On May 21st of this year the city of Twin Falls ran a
bond for Fire Department and Police Department infrastructure and facilities. They do
not have impact fees. The bond failed. It received 63.45 percent yes votes, but it failed
to receive the two-thirds super majority. Twin Falls Fire Chief Les Kenworthy is quoted
as saying later that evening: We will definitely be back with another bond. We were not
exaggerating the need. We were not exaggerating the need. I have spent six plus years
on the committee interacting with and collaborating with community members, as well as
the trusted team of highly qualified staff, department heads and fire and police chiefs.
They have worked diligently to develop comprehensive CIPs to address the demands
presented by growth. Any person or organization that would come before you and
question our Parks, Fire and Police leadership in their CIP development and suggest that
these numbers are possibly padded or inflated, they are wrong. The CIP for each
department is comprehensive, thorough and accurate. The CIPs address growth required
development only. The impact fee study developed by Raftelis and the impact fee
committee is thorough, accurate and smart approach to impact fees. The impact fee
study is compliant with state statute. The impact fee study is consistent with nearby cities.
This is not an experiment. The proposed impact fees are the fair way to fund the
infrastructure necessary to address the demands of growth. Let's review quickly some
historic context of impact fees related to population growth in the City of Meridian. Not
many of us probably -- probably not many of us can recall the days when Meridian was a
town of 2,600 people, but I would assume that most of us have been here for the
exceptional growth rate since 2000. It's been incredible. As you can see in this simple
graphic, it does not appear to me that past impact fee actions have resulted in negative
impacts to growth in the city. I have only tracked -- I haven't tracked every one of them,
but we can clearly see that in 2000, 2010 and, then, again, in 2018, there is no noticeable
trend in population growth that would indicate a negative, a flattening, or any kind of
deflation of growth when impact fees were increased, implemented, or otherwise enacted.
Last week KTVB ran a story titled Meridian Among Fastest Growing Cities In The Nation.
I say that with positive energy. Some people say it through clinched feet. The story
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda June 11, 2019 – Page 37 of 396
Meridian City Council
June 4, 2019
Page 11 of 35
indicated the following: The city's population increased by 6.1 percent in 2018. This is
after we increased the impact fees. Meridian is the second largest city in the state behind
Boise. Boise and Meridian have impact fees. The state of Idaho ranked second in the
nation for housing unit growth. You may hear from some in the community that the
proposed fee increase being considered tonight will drive buyers to other markets in this
valley. History appears to me to indicate otherwise. You do, however, have a decision to
make. The decision is not whether or not you invest in the necessary infrastructure to
address growth, but, rather, how is this investment funded? Perhaps there are two
options. You could collect impact fees that are a direct result of that growth and new
development or you could dictate that the 114,680 current residents subsidize these
growth-related infrastructure costs and needs. I want to close with some good press
about our fine city. Many of these articles you see words like low crime, safe, people
hang out in Generations Plaza, strong economy, outdoor recreation. So, I hear these
words and I pause, I consider them, it's clear to me: People are attracted to Meridian's
commitment to invest in parks, fire and police. I read through dozens of articles over the
past few days as I have prepared for this presentation. I do not recall a single article that
reported negatively on the City of Meridian's commitment to invest in parks, fire and
police. You should be very proud of this. This Council must be courageous. This Council
must act with fairness to the 114,680 current residents. This Council should approve the
proposed impact fees at the full rate, as detailed in the impact fee study. We are not
exaggerating the need. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you, Matt. Council, any questions?
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Real quick, Matt, can you remind us how many people are on your committee
and approximately how many times did you meet to come to the conclusion that you just
referenced?
Adams: Yes. Madam Mayor, Councilman Borton, we have -- we meet quarterly and,
then, we met a few extra times as we were right at the decision making process. The
number of people on the committee I actually don't know. We have seven. It has varied,
because people -- the time I have been there we have had some people -- new people
and some people go and in those quarterly meetings -- so, I have met -- I missed a couple,
unfortunately, but -- so, quarterly over six years, say I have met 20 times with your staff,
that group, and department heads and the facilities -- we have seen directly what the
needs are and how they operate and we have a group of varied backgrounds on that --
on that committee, varied ages, varied backgrounds, varied professions and we didn't
always agree on everything, but what we did agree on was the quality of the reporting,
the quality of the study and the recommendations in it.
De Weerd: Thank you, Matt. Any other questions? Mrs. Little Roberts.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda June 11, 2019 – Page 38 of 396
Meridian City Council
June 4, 2019
Page 12 of 35
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor. Matt, could you share a little bit about how the breaks in
the housing square footage were created?
Adams: Yeah.
Little Roberts: We have had some other -- some people suggest that maybe we should
look at something different. What was the discussion regarding where those breaks
would occur?
Adams: Madam Mayor, Councilman Roberts, excellent question. I don't know if I can
answer that. Dwayne with Raftelis did explain it to us at our meetings. It is based on
population and how many people generally live within a certain square footage of space
is my understanding, but I don't know if, Todd, you have --
Lavoie: Madam Mayor, Councilman Little Roberts, the answer to the question -- and I
wish Dwayne was here to answer it for you in more detail, but on an e-mail that I sent to
you a couple weeks ago I tried to answer that question in more detail. What he did is he
collected the data from Ada county and he collected the data from our Planning
Department to figure out our average homes within our community over the last five years.
We omitted the data from 1930s and '40s and '50s, because housing styles have
changed. So, he tried to collect the most recent data to determine what he would
determine as what is our average size household here and, then, from there he developed
an algorithm -- don't ask me to explain that one, but there was an algorithm that he used
to calculate I guess an arc to determine when the split should occur. So , he used math
to determine when should the split go from 1,000 to 1,500 to 2,500 to 3,201. So, he used
math to determine that. There are opinions that it should be 700 or it should be 1 ,200.
He used math to try to calculate these splits based on the data from Ada county and the
City of Meridian development -- I guess data. Hopefully that answers or not.
Little Roberts: It does. Thank you, Todd. I had actually read it and I was hoping there
was an easier version.
Lavoie: Unfortunately, there is not. It was a complicated algorithm, but we -- that's what
we hired a consultant to do this for and this is what they do throughout the United States.
Little Roberts: Thank you.
Adams: And I would agree. I have read some of the other letters that have come into
you and there has been some discussion about reducing fees at the lower levels to
support different agendas or workforce housing and things. Our committee never
discussed that. So, I can't represent the committee with an answer on that. Those ideas
sound great. So, I mean that is something that would be before you, but I don't know if a
workforce housing candidate lives in a thousand square foot home or is it three families
that live in a 3,000 square foot home? I don't know the answer to that. So, I really wouldn't
be able to address that question that you have seen as well.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda June 11, 2019 – Page 39 of 396
Meridian City Council
June 4, 2019
Page 13 of 35
Little Roberts: Thank you.
De Weerd: Other questions? Thank you.
Adams: Thank you.
Lavoie: Thank you.
De Weerd: Mr. Clerk, will you, please, let us know who signed up.
Johnson: Madam Mayor, there were no advanced sign-ins for this.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. This is a public hearing. Is there anyone here who would
like to provide testimony? Yes. Good evening. If you will, please, state your name and
address for the record?
Yorgason: Good evening, Madam Mayor and Members of the Council. My name is Dave
Yorgason. Good to be in front of you today. I'm here representing the Building Contractor
Association of Southwestern Idaho and I appreciate all the efforts -- specifically this
committee's efforts and your department heads' efforts. It is not an easy task to review
impact fees on a five year or whatever basis, which they do. So, I applaud them for their
efforts. The Building Contractors did submit a letter. I recognize due to people who are
in transition we are still without an executive officer and so we apologize for not getting to
you sooner, but I do believe you have a copy of that in your packet -- or at least available.
If not I can make a copy for you. I will make my comments brief and , then, stand for any
questions you have. First of all, in addition to serving with BCA, I'm also the chairman of
the Boise city development fee advisory committee. I have done that for numerous years
and so I know Matt's job. I do it over there at your neighboring city and they went through
this same gyration of calculations of trying to decide should we split up impact fees by
square footage of housing and what's that algorithm and what should it look like and there
is lots of ways to look at it. The city of Boise actually went through three different iterations
to try to determine what they thought was a fair and reasonable split of that percentage
and they went into regional housing and geographic areas, which I do not recommend,
especially for the city here. So, with that in mind I recognize that the perception will be
that the City Council makes the decision and you will decide winners and losers. That's
the perception. Sorry. That's your job to make that decision. Having said that, I -- I stand
back -- and we as fee payers stand back and say do we like the free increase? Well, of
course the answer is nobody likes to see a fee increase. However, standing back further
and say is the formula fair and that's really what this is all about, is the formula fair. And
I would say generally it is. They have hired a good consultant. They have done a great
job. The letter did point to one specific thing and I want to raise that for your discussion
tonight. The city -- the analysis has gone to the point of trying to split this up by square
footage of housing type. Two parts. First of all, Council Member Anne Little Roberts, you
raised the question about square footages and by housing type areas and I kind of saw
a little table in here and I guess the bottom line is if you have five different groupings of
housing sizes, that's 20 percent of each group. Do you have 20 percent of your new
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda June 11, 2019 – Page 40 of 396
Meridian City Council
June 4, 2019
Page 14 of 35
homes being built in each of those categories? If not, then, you will be either short or
extra in your collections of your fees based on that. I don't have an answer to that
question, but that's a question I raise in the city. Secondly, with regard to the formula
that's in place, I absolutely trust the departments, they are pretty thorough. I saw the --
the analysis in the reports and I do think the total numbers are fair based on the CIPs they
have in place before you. However, I don't think it's fair to split the police and fire fee, if
you're going to -- based on utilization, which is what the park fee is all about, based on
the number of people in a home or an apartment, whatever your square footage is. Well,
I don't know that -- I don't know that an apartment versus a 3,000 square foot home -- I
don't know if the police show up three times or more to a 3,000 square foot home than
they do for an apartment unit or likewise to the fire department being the same way. It's
our experience -- it's my experience that it's fairly consistent, you might even see a little
higher actual attendance of the police of these small units, so my recommendation would
be is for that consideration -- am I out of time? If I am I will wrap it up.
De Weerd: No. Because you are a spokesperson I will -- we will give you the full ten
minutes.
Yorgason: Oh, thank you, Mayor. And I won't use the whole ten minutes. So, with that
in mind, that's for your consideration. Happy to answer your further questions about that,
but specifically when you look at a fair formula, I don't know that it's fair to define the
police and fire fee based on housing size. And, then, the other point is on affordable
housing. I can talk all day long about affordable housing. Tha t's not what I'm going to do
right now, other than pointing to some recent surveys and study data based on Meridian
wages, based on Ada county wages, based on how high our housing prices have become
for a thousand dollar price increase, the price of the home in the Treasure Valley -- this,
again, is for the Treasure Valley. Ada county. Approximately 500 people are priced out
of the home. That's a fact. That's based on qualifications of your homes. And so it is
true that it drives who you qualify. Now, Meridian has -- sets your fees. That's fine. And
Nampa just raised their fees, which is an offset, actually, from the way the developer used
to pay the traffics and those fees are always a fluid motion, but that's -- that's about the
number today. It's approximately 500 people are priced out of a home in the market today.
So, I'm not going to solve your affordable housing problem today, but it's a real
consequence. What Boise chose to do is they agreed to a fair formula for all and they
chose at the very lower level to actually subsidize with government -- I'm sorry -- with --
with general funds. That was the decision Boise made. I will stand for any questions you
have.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions? You know, I guess I would challenge
BCA to bring together a work group to talk about affordable housing. We have had these
conversations and certainly we had the conversation more recently after the speaker you
brought in on affordable housing and -- is much larger than impact fees. Impact fees are
growth fees that help ensure that growth pays its way and that our taxpayers that live
here today don't shoulder the burden for growth and -- and that -- I think that's why it's
prescriptive by the state and -- and we go through extraordinary lengths to meet those
thresholds of the numbers that we need to approve before coming back to a determination
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda June 11, 2019 – Page 41 of 396
Meridian City Council
June 4, 2019
Page 15 of 35
of what those growth impact fees should be, but I -- I do think that there needs to be a
conversation and we all need to be a part of it. Certainly government is always the low
hanging fruit that is the -- the easiest one to say you need to lower your fees, when those
fees are, really, to offset growth pains to existing taxpayers. So , I -- I would work with
you, Dave, to convene a group to start having those discussions, because it is worthy of
a discussion. It has -- there needs to -- to be something that we can bring forward to
address that.
Yorgason: I don't know if you want me to respond. I would be happy to. First of all, I
already made a note and I agree and it's not going to be solved here tonight. City of Boise
has had several workshops and a lot of it just comes down to supply and demand, but I
also recognize your comp plan's an effort now. That's -- that's another vehicle to try to
accommodate the right location for smaller housing, which, then, can drive towards more
affordable housing in the right locations. So, yes, look forward to continuing to work with
the City of Meridian on trying to solve -- or at least do our part to try to solve that.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Yorgason: You're welcome.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Well, first of all, I really appreciate all the work that the committee has put into this
and I -- and I -- but I understand what Dave is talking about with fire and police. I think
this is worthy of a discussion. I'm hoping that finance has an answer to the question of
what would that -- if it was -- if you just take this CIP for those two and divide it equally by
the number of homes, what kind of number are we looking at. I would almost guess,
Dave, that it would be more harmful to have smaller home -- so, unless you're building
nothing but 3,000 square foot homes, that number going to be quite a bit higher on the --
on the smaller homes. So, I don't know that that would really be beneficial to exactly what
you're saying we need. See what I'm saying? So, it's kind of contradictory to each other,
but I do think it's worthy of discussing and maybe something from Police and Fire on any
statistics they might have. There was a lot of questions for a lot of people.
Yorgason: Do you want me to respond to that, Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, please.
Yorgason: Councilman Milam, you are absolutely correct. They -- they conflict with each
other. But in the analysis of a fair formula they have to both be discussed in my opinion
and, you're right, and yet at the same time on the parks side, if we keep that in the same
vein -- which is actually, frankly, where almost all the increase in the fee is --
Milam: Right.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda June 11, 2019 – Page 42 of 396
Meridian City Council
June 4, 2019
Page 16 of 35
Yorgason: -- that -- we know the total cost of parks -- I think it's like 88 percent or
something close to that for the average price -- is going up, whereas the -- the price is
actually going down on the parks side for -- for little smaller homes. So, the net difference
I think would still be a net decrease, just won't be as much of a decrease if you flatten that
fee for the Police and Fire.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Yorgason: You're welcome. But I think you're right, I would defer to the Police and Fire if
they want to answer to where do they spend more of their time.
De Weerd: And we will save that for them. Any other questions for Dave? Thank you.
Yorgason: You're welcome. Thanks again.
De Weerd: I guess --
Lavey: Madam Mayor, Council, when it comes down to the calculations and the forum, it
really doesn't matter to us, but to answer the question about responses, it's not about how
many times we respond to a location, it's the type of response that we have there and the
larger the building it does impact police and it even greatly impacts fire. So , don't think
about the number of times that you respond there, think about the type of response. The
larger the facility, the longer it takes to evac, the longer it takes to set a secure perimeter,
the longer it takes for us to process a crime scene, and, then, on fire it takes a lot more
resources to put out a fire in a larger facility when you start getting these big mansions
that we are building here in Meridian. A single fire truck or a single engine can't deal with
that. Likewise on the police side is it takes a lot more people to actually establish a secure
perimeter and, then, to search a residence. So, it's not just a matter of how many times
you respond there, it's a matter of the type of response that you have when you get there.
And I think Fire might have an even more in-depth response. But I would answer any
questions that you may have.
De Weerd: Thank you, chief. Any questions for Chief Lavey?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Chief, is it -- you know, I read the -- the correlation on size with regards to parks
to -- to make some assumption on the number of individuals who might be residing in the
property and -- and in reviewing, you know, some of the comments that Dave referenced
that it might also be true that if we are assuming larger structures on average might
contain more individuals than smaller, those are individuals who are students in utilizing,
you know, police services in their schools, to driving on our roads and our fire department
responds to car accidents to safe work environments for more individuals, employees and
our businesses in a variety of settings where assuming a larger structure has more
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda June 11, 2019 – Page 43 of 396
Meridian City Council
June 4, 2019
Page 17 of 35
individuals, there is a -- there is a lot of opportunity and need for the capital improvement
provisions for Police and Fire, all things being equal, for the greater number of people
that are in our community in settings far beyond just serving the structure itself , that
support what I understand the committee's presenting here.
Lavey: I'm not sure if that was a question or a statement.
Borton: Well, are you following me is the first question I guess, and do you agree that
that might -- that might be additional basis for this five tiered impact fee structure for Police
and Fire.
Lavey: I do -- I do agree with the statement that you made, yes.
De Weerd: However, impact fees are one time on capital expenditures. They are not
personnel. They are not police vehicles, because they don't qualify for the life
requirement. So, it's -- it's not apples to apples.
Lavey: Correct.
Borton: In light of that you're going to have those people in stations -- in fire stations and
police substations and training facilities providing services.
Lavey: That is -- that is one that -- Madam Mayor, Councilman Borton, that is one
additional thing that I did see in some of the -- the comments that people had made about
growth pays for itself and my question would be when. Because under impact fees it
can't be used for police officers. It can't be used for police cars. It can't be used for
equipment. Yet we are responsible for serving those needs immediately. So, that growth
may generate property taxes down the road, but it doesn't take care of all of our needs
right away. So, it does have serious impacts. As far as the --
De Weerd: Since I preside over the meeting, you are getting us out on -- in a rabbit trail,
because it doesn't pertain to impact fees, it does pertain to cost of service and I think that
is one of the conversations that the speaker that the BC A brought in talked about is all
those different forms of revenue that -- that contribute to serving the citizens. The growth
impact fees are about what's prescribed under state code and that's what's in front of us
tonight. So, the vehicles, the personnel, that's caught up in your property tax that -- that
helps cover the gap.
Borton: I apologize, Madam Mayor, if I wasn't clear. I understand that pretty clearly.
De Weerd: Okay.
Borton: And that wasn't the intent.
Lavey: I think -- I think it was my fault. I don't think it was your fault.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda June 11, 2019 – Page 44 of 396
Meridian City Council
June 4, 2019
Page 18 of 35
Borton: We can move on.
Lavey: Is there any other questions? Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Niemeyer: Madam Mayor, Council, it's kind of scary when the police chief talks about the
fire lingo as good as the fire chief -- he put it very well, but to reiterate and add onto that,
this methodology was new for us, as well as department heads, and so we had to kind of
wrap our mind around that tiered approach. From Fire's perspective it does make sense.
Typically in a house fire -- and in the homes that we have been building in Meridian we
can send our standard first alarm response, three engines, a truck, and a battalion chief
and we can get the job done with those resources. When you start talking about homes
that have 5,000 square feet of living space, as you see on the slide -- I think they were to
climate controlled floor space, which doesn't include the garage, we add resources to that
response, because instead of one search crew going through that house , you're now
sending two. Instead of one attack line, you're sending two. And so the resource add in
these larger homes is having an impact on how we respond to fires. Very similar to PD
when they go out and they are doing evacuations and et cetera. So, I just wanted to put
it more fire esque and eloquent than Chief Lavey did, but he did a great job explaining it.
But I would certainly stand for any questions.
De Weerd: I apologize to our impact fee committee that probably heard this bantering
back and forth.
Niemeyer: They love it.
De Weerd: Council, any questions for Chief Niemeyer?
Milam: Thank you.
Niemeyer: Thank you.
Bernt: Fire esque. Well done.
De Weerd: Yes, Denise.
LaFever: Hello. My name is Denise LaFever. I'm at 6706 North Salvia Way and let me
tell you your staff is responsive. I said something to Steve, he told Todd, he was up here
talking about it. So, I do have an issue about multi-families. Not clear in page three of
the ordinance or page three of the report that it doesn't clearly delineate that there is a
calculation involved in all that. So, right now you could have a 7,000, 10,000, 15,000
multi-family and they would just get charged that one cap rate at 3 ,200. So, I do have a
concern with that. The other thing I have a concern with is page seven and page nine of
the report, they are using 2,532 square feet to calculate the revenue. In reality, the days
of the estates and the bigger homes is coming to an end. The new comp plan removes
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda June 11, 2019 – Page 45 of 396
Meridian City Council
June 4, 2019
Page 19 of 35
many of the acres of low density based on 2014, 2018 is how the report is calculated, but
we are seeing an increasing move towards smaller lots and smaller homes , 55 and over
communities. Smaller affordable homes. I looked up Corey Barton, he's building houses
under 1,500 square feet on some of his homes now. We are seeing smaller product come
across. In addition on the police, all of the fees are lower. Fire 2,500 and -- 2,500 and
under are lower and the parks under 1,500 is lower. So, if you're using the calculations
for a revenue basis of 2,500 to 3,200 square feet, you're going to end up with calculations
and revenue that's too high. So, I do have -- I have some concerns about the allocations.
In addition to here -- and maybe -- maybe I have it wrong on here, but putting houses
closer together and smaller houses to me it seems like that would cause more risk the
closer you get your house as you catch one house on fire , you know, you could trickle
that over. So, I would really like to hear what -- what their opinion is on -- on smaller,
because we are seeing more and more lots gets more smaller and smaller and closer
together. I believe we have some -- some dimension standards coming forward to have
those setbacks even smaller coming through on UDC. Also on the police , I wasn't really
clear after listening to him the impact of multi-family and what that causes as far as what
-- what the response is for multi-family and I would really like to hear a response on that.
Overall I'm -- I'm really concerned about the fact -- and we will do what we need to do,
you guys will make the right decisions, but I'm concerned about moving forward before
the comp plan is done. We are going through, like I said, taking out the low density and
putting in more compressed densities within the comp plan and without looking at that
forward vision and seeing where we are going with affordability for houses and the
different product types that we're doing, we may underestimate the revenues, which I'm
very concerned that may shift the burden to the current taxpayers and inadvertently tax
people out of their homes that already live here. So, I do group growth needs to pay for
itself. So, thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you, Denise. Is there other testimony? Okay. Several questions were
asked. It looks like Chief Lavey is coming forward.
Lavey: Madam Mayor, I think there is at least one question there that -- that pertained to
us. I will try not to go down a rabbit hole. As far as response, we talked about how many
times an officer would have to respond out to a location. So, divided into the types of
responses that we have, if you go to a house because you got a public call to take a police
report on the cold crime, it's one officer. If you go there because there is a burglary alarm,
there may be two officers. If it's a larger house that has multiple sides to it and a very
large backyard, it may take four officers or six officers. If it is a crisis situation where shots
are fired in the house it may take 12, 15, 20 officers, depending on the number of -- of --
or not the number, but the square footage of the house. So, the larger the facility and the
more serious that the crime is could take more resources and does take more resources
under our protocols. That's all I'm saying, is that you can't base it on just how often you
respond to a location, it's the type of response that you have -- what brings you there in
the first place. Hopefully that clarifies that question. And I don't believe there is any others
that will pertain to the police.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda June 11, 2019 – Page 46 of 396
Meridian City Council
June 4, 2019
Page 20 of 35
De Weerd: Chief, I guess there was a question about what is the impact of multi -family
and services, but, again, this is to a capital improvement plan that is about capital needs
and not necessarily the personal aspect. But do -- do you have any comment on demand
for services with the higher densities and the smaller lots and houses and multi -family?
Lavey: You know, there is a lot of different opinions on that and I'm not going to weigh
one side or the other, because it's people that actually generate the calls and it's a matter
of are they in one location or are they in ten locations. So, if they are in one location it
actually is better for us, because we have less places to travel, less travel time. I don't
believe there is any correlation that there is greater calls for service at multi-family homes,
it's who manages those and the condition of the homes , because if you have good
management and good HOAs, we have no issues whatsoever. If you have poor
management or if you have multiple owners -- we have some apartments that are owned
by multiple people that have different standards, then, that's when you run into problems.
But to say that it's multi-family housing, that's -- that's totally not fair. There is a whole
bunch of other factors that come into play.
De Weerd: Council, any follow-up questions for Chief Lavey? Thank you, chief.
Lavey: Let's talk fire again.
Niemeyer: Madam Mayor, Council, I just want to confirm the question. I believe the
question was what is Fire's concerns with high density housing developments? Was that
-- did I catch that?
De Weerd: I think our safety --
Niemeyer: Yeah. So, as you can imagine, I mean if we are just talking anecdotal, a home
that's sitting on a one acre lot that's wholly on fire is not going to have the same risk to
other houses as a home that is separated by ten or 15 feet. With that, though, this is not
anything new for the fire department. Through our strategy -- strategy and tactics training
we train to this and so as I talked to -- when I was here previous, we would send in this
case if we had tight homes and we had those 15 foot, 20 foot setbacks, we would send
additional apparatus and one of those apparatus would be assigned what we call
exposure control. So, exposures means for us the houses next to the house on fire. We
have letters that we -- so, Bravo is to our left, Delta is to our right. Charlie is in the back.
So, we would say pulling line protect the Charlie side exposure and so we would protect
that home prior to it being exposed and caught on fire, if that make sense. So, we -- as
part of our CIP we are looking at that, what resources are we going to need based on the
projected growth and call volume and our threats and risks, so we can met those.
De Weerd: Thank you, chief.
Bongiorno: Madam Mayor, if I can tag onto what Chief Niemeyer said. So, to answer
one of Denise's questions, when you get those buildings that are closer together there
are building code requirements for fire separation for those structures and, then, when
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda June 11, 2019 – Page 47 of 396
Meridian City Council
June 4, 2019
Page 21 of 35
you have those duplexes and four-plexes and stuff, they are separated by firewalls. It's
all in the building code. So, there are avenues to protect those houses that are close
together. There are requirements that have to be met. And , then, to tag onto the question
about multi-family, we did a very unofficial search into our multi-family residentials -- or
multi-family buildings and we found -- this was a couple years ago -- that one single
building will generate roughly two calls a year for the fire department. And , again, that
was a couple years ago, not -- not -- we just did a quick run on numbers and that's kind
of what we came up with. So, like Chief Lavey said, you get more people you're going to
get more calls. So, that -- that is a factor.
De Weerd: Thank you. Hi, Todd.
Lavoie: Madam Mayor, I believe there was a question -- a concern about the mathematics
utilized in calculations. Just want to reiterate that the calculations conducted by Raftelis,
the consultant, they were vetted through the committee, vetted through us. There is also
information within your study on page seven, page 14 and page 20, that support the
mathematics and how we came up with the tiered approach. If we went with the flat rate
at the bottom of every graph it shows what the mathematics would be to answer kind of
what Genesis was asking, what would a rate be for Police or Fire, I use an example on
your screen, on page 20 you would reference that the mathematical simple calculation
will be 695. If we just had a flat rate we are proposing 693 and, hence, why they use an
algorithm to divide them and figure out your spread. That is how we determine the yellow
highlight on this screen is dividing the total number of permits into the total value of
needing to be collected, so we can have a flat rate to compare it against our current
methodology, which is the 2013 methodology, but that is also the simple methodology to
support where Genesis was asking what would the flat rate be. So, it's a double check to
make sure that if we did collect the number of permits that we are expecting, we still will
be able to collect the necessary revenue to support this study as -- as presented to you.
And I believe that was the only financial question.
De Weerd: Council, any questions for -- for Todd? Okay. Thank you.
Lavoie: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Is there any further public testimony? Council, any additional
information needed from staff or any of those that are in the audience?
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Sorry to go back to that slide. I guess I'm just still a little bit confused with Mr.
Yorgason's request. You wanted a flat fee, which would be 695 dollars for Fire -- that's
almost at the top end of the -- of the tier. So, it seems to me like that would be better for
the city and not as -- not -- and worse for the building community. I want to ask you a
question, so you can come up.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda June 11, 2019 – Page 48 of 396
Meridian City Council
June 4, 2019
Page 22 of 35
De Weerd: Yes, do.
Milam: Do you -- knowing what that number is, do you still feel the same way that -- it
just seems like much higher for the building community.
Yorgason: Madam Mayor and Council Member Milam, I was not advocating for 695, I
was vetting for a flatter fee, whatever that number is, and so I don't know what the number
is. That's what the team over here is trying to conclude and it's -- it's a formula. It's a
math formula where you -- you trust the departments, they told you what the total dollar
amount is needed, then, you divide it by the number of homes. That's the way -- their
project growth. It's kind of the efforts there. I appreciate -- and the answers were given
here by the police chief and the fire chief and Joe as well. The City of Meridian may be
different than Boise city. Boise city depends upon Ada county dispatch for their numbers.
If Meridian city is saying, no, a house -- a house is pretty much the same, but it's not, it's
a little bit different, then, maybe the numbers here are the right numbers. My question
was just simply based on my information and based on the Ada county dispatch numbers
for Boise city, they do see a correlation flatter -- I don't want to say flat, but definitely more
flat than this three times number that's being used here where you compare the top end
versus the low end. Equally important, though, Council Member Milam and the other
members of the Council, is do you have an equal number of percentage of homes in each
of these five categories. If almost all your homes are in the bottom end or in the top end,
you're not getting the appropriate allocation of dollars as well. So, I appreciate Todd's
comments there, but I think that's a really important thing, because at the end of the day
what the building community wants is to make sure you have good numbers that you can
rely upon, because five years from now when we go through the same exercise, you
know, you're going to look back and say did growth pay for itself. Did it collect the amount
of money we thought it would collect and you need to have that information. Do you have
the right number of homes by square fo ot -- those five groupings of square footage of
homes and if you do you will get there. If you're more heavily weighted on the smaller or
the larger homes, then, I don't think that would be the case. So, I think that's part of the
-- important part of analysis which I haven't heard an answer to yet. Again, to answer
your specific question, I'm not advocating for 695, I'm advocating for a flatter fee.
Milam: Madam Mayor? But they -- they did the math and that's what the number is. So,
my question to you now is knowing that, do you have the same opinion or do you want to
retract your -- asking for that?
Yorgason: Council Member Milam -- Madam Mayor, Council Member Milam, I don't know
that I would agree with what they said, frankly, just based on the numbers that I know.
The old number is that -- is that right, 695? Six -- six something. I know every city is a
little bit different. I think it's 695. And so I don't know that I would agree with his
calculation, because to your exact point that would actually raise the amount in total, so I
don't think that would back into a 695 number. I think it would actually be a reduction,
based on sitting here thinking on the fly, without knowing all the facts. And I'm not
advocating for that either. I'm advocating for your total, divided by a fair formula. You're
welcome. Thank you. I won't take up your time.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda June 11, 2019 – Page 49 of 396
Meridian City Council
June 4, 2019
Page 23 of 35
De Weerd: And I guess at the end of the day it's a -- a snapshot of time -- in time that you
base your calculations on and you can look back over the last impact fees with the rate
of cost increase and inflation. We didn't even come near to collecting what we needed to
collect in that growth impact fee. It is a snapshot in time and I think that this -- this study
is the best I have seen in -- and what we have done to -- to meet the intent of the state
code and to do right by both our existing residents and the growth that is yet to come and
finding a fair formula and -- and I guess at the end of the day that's -- that's what we are
hoping for and we count on all of our partners to help us in looking at as many different
angles as we can to see that -- to maybe highlight or daylight things that we haven't
considered. But I do think a lot of these things have been discussed by our impact fee
committee and today it's our best recommendation.
Yorgason: Madam Mayor, again, I want to be really -- I just, again, thank you for your
comments. If the Council direction is to make a decision tonight, then, you're just going
to have to make your decision based on the information you have. If you're thinking about
pulling back just to get a little bit more information , then, you would have adequate time
to determine these questions that were raised if you want to have a flatter fee for the
Police and Fire, for example, or equivalent or nearly equivalent number of -- number of
homes in each of those five categories. Again, you want to make sure you're collecting
the right amount of money for the city. You don't want to be shorting, because you have
thought you would have this and yet you have a whole bunch of smaller multi-family units
coming up and they are paying a whole lot less, again, you're going to say growth didn't
pay for itself and the answer would be, then, that multi-family didn't pay for itself.
De Weerd: And, Dave, it's kind of funny, because I swear five years ago you were
standing in front of us saying don't make it a flat fee, you need to -- to do it something
different and -- and I think that -- that it will always change.
Yorgason: Madam Mayor, I -- again, I'm not here to argue, but to support that comment.
I do support what the Parks Department is doing, splitting it up by -- on a per household
size basis. That's where the utilization is and if the police and fire chiefs are telling you
that it's the same for homes, well, then, let's stay with what we have here. It's just
whatever the data is. I'm a data driven answer person here. It's not trying to drive an
agenda by any means, it's really trying to make sure that it's a fair outcome for everybody
involved and that's why I look at it from a formula basis and, I agree, you have a -- by the
way, they are not all like mansions, police chief. We do have 20 -- a lot of 2,500 square
foot homes. I do know the demographics of society is moving more towards some smaller
homes. But having said that this is the data that you have today, as you just said, Mayor,
and so I -- you got to make your decision based on today. If you want to make your
decision based on what you have and the police and fire are telling you, no, we actually
do send more people out there for the bigger homes , then, that's the right answer. I just
want to make sure it's a fair formula.
De Weerd: Thank you. And I appreciate that.
Yorgason: You're welcome.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda June 11, 2019 – Page 50 of 396
Meridian City Council
June 4, 2019
Page 24 of 35
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Dave, I appreciate that. I agree with you and -- and in particular our Police and
Fire, the data that they shared here today I think does articulate and provide that needed
data to support this tiered approach. I think the opposite of single tier is problematic ,
because by -- by creating an individual -- you know, pick the 858, you know, something in
the middle, you're making assumptions now that if going forward -- if we are assuming
the larger structure correlates with a larger need, which would accelerate the capital
improvement the funds are used, if it turns out that you build a lot of 1,000 foot homes
going forward, you will be collecting a higher fee, you would not create the -- the
proportional demand -- the smaller structure has a smaller demand on the capital needs.
So, you would be over collecting by using a single rate and the same would be true, a
single rate, if it turns out going forward we had large structures that would have
necessitated more money to accelerate -- so, it's good intentioned, but it seems like this
in particular with the comments from Police and Fire, is much a more equitable and -- and
accounts for what the market might do going forward. Do we actually build smaller or
larger? Well, our revenue stream will adjust accordingly, which seems to be the most fair
way to approach it.
Yorgason: Council Member -- well, Madam Mayor, Council Member Borton, I -- again, I
appreciate the discussion here today. It's a healthy discussion , because it's -- it's a big
deal. It's a lot of money that we are talking about and -- and we are talking about the
future for the city. I'm not going to answer a question, because I didn't hear one.
Borton: No, I --
Yorgason: Thank you.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: You can make up your own, though.
Borton: And kind of while you're here I wanted to articulate why I'm supportive of the
committee's recommendation and I think what we have heard from Police and Fire, just
adds additional support to the -- to the tiered approach. It seems to make the most sense.
Yorgason: Madam Mayor, I would add -- so, I'm not going to address Council Member
Borton -- under Robert's Rules he didn't ask me a question. But I will ask -- or address
to the Mayor's comment about the flat versus tiered approach. I believe the data you saw
five years ago suggested that the homes in Meridian were nearly the same on a -- on a
per housing basis. Each home had nearly the same population or number of people per
home. That's not true today. You have a new set of data that suggests differently and so
that's why I know those comments were made. So, I -- again, I support the efforts. It's a
healthy exercise. I don't like big fee increases, but we understand them.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda June 11, 2019 – Page 51 of 396
Meridian City Council
June 4, 2019
Page 25 of 35
De Weerd: And that was acknowledged in your letter, which was also appreciated.
Yorgason: Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Yorgason: You're welcome.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I would like to make a recommendation for five years from now I won't be here ,
so if somebody can bring their crystal ball, then, we can know exactly what the growth is
going to look like and it would make this process a lot simpler for the future Council.
De Weerd: We will work on that. I won't be here either. Okay. Anything further from
Council? Does Council have all the information they need? If you do I would entertain a
motion to close the public hearing.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: I think this isn't the time for us to be making this decision. As much as we would
like to we can't really silo huge decisions like this when we are weighing enormous other
decisions in the city. I think if there is an order in which the three decisions, the budget,
the impact fees and the Comprehensive Plan should be done, I think certainly the
Comprehensive Plan should be finished before we decide on this. Having all the
information contained in that, as well as for Council's benefit to have fresh in our minds
all of the numbers surrounding what our annual budget was going to entail. We may get
in -- starting tomorrow we may get in deep into these numbers in our giant bin ders and
realize that we are going to have a tough time maintaining and replacing the items that
we do have. The impact fees -- the point of them is to be spent with a -- you know, a net
increase and a planned increase in spending of -- of impact fees, those are -- that gets
us stuff, but, then, that's stuff that has to be replaced and maintained . We are limited in
how fast and how much we can increase our general fund through property taxes. I fully
anticipate that this Council is going to decide to take the full three percent allowable, which
if that were to be the case, that's saying we are taking as much as we can, because we
feel that we would need more to be able to maintain and replace the stuff that we have
currently. So, if we are planning on, you know, a large increase, because of a large
increase in population of getting more stuff to be maintained and replaced, I think we built
-- this Council would be in a much better position to make this decision , having all of those
numbers fresh in our minds just after we do the budget, rather than literally the day before
we get into it. I also feel that Denise hit it on the head, that this definitely needs to take
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda June 11, 2019 – Page 52 of 396
Meridian City Council
June 4, 2019
Page 26 of 35
place after we have been able to review the completed proposal for the Comprehensive
Plan.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Palmer. Any other comments? I'm looking for direction.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I'm not quite sure I -- I track the logic -- or I guess the rationale behind delaying
it to that extent. I see the impact fees correlate directly with the capital improvement plan,
which is also part of this, which has already been, you know, created by our staff to
account for those capital needs that our growth has required. I think all this does is create
the revenue source to let -- again, as we say growth pay for itself and any day we delay
in making these more accurately reflect our capital improvement plan, we still have those
capital expenditures, we are just making the general taxpayer fund them or we are going
to elect to not -- not provide that capital need, which we all know when we are all told we
have to provide and maintain the level of service. So, I don't think the comp plan changes
that by any stretch. I don't think we have ever waited for a comp plan in prior years and
I don't think the budget hearing -- because approving an impact change and the capital
improvement plan is not allocating funding and spending money necessarily, but it's just
creating a funding source for those improvements. I fear that delaying it only pushes the
cost on the general taxpayer, as opposed the growth paying for itself, so I would rather
make it adjust sooner rather than later if that's the committee's recommendation to more
accurately capture those costs. It has to be paid for by growth.
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: Madam Mayor, thank you. I'm in agreement with Council Member Borton. I also
agree with Dave in what he said in regard to -- you know, there is a lot at stake here. You
know, there is a lot of stakeholders that will be affected by this decision that we may or
may not make this evening. I sat on this committee many moons ago and I have heard
-- I heard similar discussions and -- and similar concerns throughout different people
coming from different walks of life on that committee and so I understand the deliberation
that Matt talks about and whatnot. It's very complicated. There is not a single -- there is
not a single -- you know, there is not a perfect methodology in how to approach this and
I believe -- and I'm a data driven guy as well. It takes the emotion out of it. It takes -- it's
just a lot earlier to look at it with -- with clear lenses and I haven't heard anything this
evening or in the past that would lead me to believe -- or lead me -- or lead us down a
different road and so with that -- with that said I'm supportive of this -- of this new proposal
with impact fees and will be voting yes on it this evening.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other comments? If we are ready, we can close the public hearing.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda June 11, 2019 – Page 53 of 396
Meridian City Council
June 4, 2019
Page 27 of 35
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I move we close the public hearing on Item 7-D.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing on Item 7 -D. All
those in favor say aye. Any opposed say nay?
Palmer: Nay.
De Weerd: Okay. The ayes have it.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. ONE NAY. ONE ABSENT.
De Weerd: The ordinance is under 8-A, so we will wait until that point.
E. Fire Department: Budget Amendment for Public Education
Supplies
De Weerd: Item 7-E is under our Fire Department, a budget amendment for public
education supplies. Good evening, Pam. Thank you for being here.
Orr: Thank you very much, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Thank you for
allowing us to come to you tonight with a budget amendment for public education. We
are requesting a budget amendment for the amount of -- and where did it go? On the
phone. For 12,465 dollars. This money has been received by the Fire Department. We
have a donation from the Light My Fire organization for 10,000 dollars and we additionally
have a donation from citizens for 2 ,465 dollars. Those donations that we have received
throughout the year were directly donated as a part of our smoke alarm program for the
most part. As we have been out people just would like to thank us for that and be able to
contribute to that program, so that the program will continue to grow and allow us to be
able to purchase more alarms and so this evening I'm coming to you with a request that
you would approve this budget amendment. It is not going to cost the city any money, if
you will. This money has already been received from the public. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you, Pam. Council, any questions for Pam?
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor, if we have no questions -- one, Pam, I would like to say
thank you for all that you do and I would like to move that we accept the budget
amendment for 12,465 dollars, that ends up being net zero, thanks to Light My Fire and
other citizens.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda June 11, 2019 – Page 54 of 396
Meridian City Council
June 4, 2019
Page 28 of 35
Orr: Thank you.
Bernt: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve the budget amendment request
under Item 7-E. If there is no discussion, Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, absent; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea;
Bernt, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Orr: Thank you very much.
De Weerd: Thank you, Pam. And, please, extend our appreciation, again, to Light My
Fire.
Orr: Thank you. Actually tonight -- today we had our final wrap up meeting and we were
able to have that at the Fire Safety Center and I asked to have it there, so that we could
show them the work of -- you know, the efforts, you know, that we put forward and so we
took them all through a fire safety class there and took them to the burn room and
everything and so they were so appreciative of that, because we just never thought to do
that and so all of these years that we have worked with them, you know, they were able
to see it, so that was really great, so --
De Weerd: That's great.
Orr: Yeah. Thank you.
F. Fire Department: Budget Amendment for Engine 39 Equipment
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Item 7-F is also under Fire Department for a budget
amendment for Engine 39 equipment. Good evening, Justin.
Winkler: Madam Mayor, City Council. We are here today -- this evening to discuss trying
to get some more equipment for one of our reserve engines. We have come to the
realization that as things have grown that we are being behind the ball. We currently have
got two reserve engines and one of them does not have any equipment on it hardly
whatsoever or it's got hose and that's it. Where the problem has come is as we have had
engines either break down from mechanical problems or they go into service, this is
actually creating down time for the crews. So, it takes approximately an hour to get
equipment moved from one engine to another engine and , then, when they get that
engine back to put it back in place where it is. So, it is creating a deficiency gap within --
within our department and so what we are asking for is about 13,500 dollars in the
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda June 11, 2019 – Page 55 of 396
Meridian City Council
June 4, 2019
Page 29 of 35
amendment to finish outfitting those apparatus. What I have currently done already is
managed to gather up some spare equipment that we have had in stock and also had
looked at our current budget and been able to take some money out of budget to at least
try to get this engine put together. It would have normally been a total of a little bit over
30,000 dollars to get this thing equipped, so by doing what we have done we have been
able to cut that down to 13,500 and so we are asking to see if we can get this budget
amendment taken care of this evening, so we can get this apparatus back up and -- up
and running. I understand that there has also been -- been a lot of talk about data, so if
you have some questions for me I will stand for your questions.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, here is your chance. Let's talk data.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: How often do you -- on the average do you have to switch out?
Winkler: So, currently -- this last year I went back and we had a total of 197 downtime
incidences and within those 76 of them required a complete total change out of the
apparatus. That required about 152 man hours, this being out-of-service time and, then,
this also -- if you take that into our responses, it -- that's 152 hours of time that we were
down that would -- could have created an extended response, because we were having
one crew from one station or another that was out of service, so we would have had to
rely on another apparatus or another -- another station to take care of that call. So, then,
I also went back and -- since I'm new into this position -- I just started in February -- I
thought I would also just look at how -- how rapidly this occurrence has been happening
just in the last three months I have been in this position and we have had 23 occurrences
of that currently and as of today I have got two engines right now that are in the shop, so
I have only got one spare engine that is available to us currently at this time. So, if
something happens tomorrow we are going to be at our bare bones basics.
De Weerd: So, bottom line, why can't you wait until the next budget year.
Winkler: So, what has happened with that is the -- when we -- when I came on here this
was something that -- that I didn't -- didn't know about and the budget for next budget
year was already set and so if we were to take that 13,500 dollars out of our next budget
year that would be coming out of our general equipment fund that we would -- that we
usually go through already with equipment replacements and things like that throughout
the year. So, that would probably be why it would not be able to wait until next year. The
other thing is is we have also got Engine 36 that is getting ready to go online in June -- I
believe the 21st and just adds another piece of apparatus to our fleet that's going to be
on the road and so it's actually going to be stressing our resources as far as reserve
equipment that much farther.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda June 11, 2019 – Page 56 of 396
Meridian City Council
June 4, 2019
Page 30 of 35
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: So, based on the data that you gave us, your -- an engine is breaking down maybe
every three days. That just seems insane. Can you tell us what -- what it is that -- that
puts an engine out of service every three days?
Winkler: Twenty-four of those is -- 24 of those throughout the year is just basically
generalized on just service and maintenance. So, you can take that -- that down to 173
times that we have had them out and so you can also consolidate some of that stuff.
Some of this stuff that we have taken is -- is we will put to -- put it as a -- shall we say not
an emergent situation, it needs to be fixed and consolidate them down to where it still
needs to go out of service and so the base down here is -- about 21.6 percent of these
were considered higher critically important repairs is what it end up being to where they
were pulled out -- pulled out of service for that reason.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: I understand this is the -- the procedure that you were asked to go through given
the situation to avoid it being in 2021 to be able to now do it, but as I understand it, we
can still put it in 2020 if we choose to, can we not?
De Weerd: Yes. I mean 2020 is to consider it for next year, which is what the question is
about. Can this wait until next budget year, which is in four months.
Palmer: Madam Mayor, that -- that would be my recommendation. Instead of a '19
amendment, let's put it in '20.
De Weerd: We do tell our departments that we want them to give us a bare bones -- what
they anticipate spending and that if they can bring to Council a request that shows the
urgency, that request will be considered on its merits and so that -- that is why Justin is
standing in front of us today. He feels that it does have merit and so you do have a couple
of choices here. One is to -- to approve this budget amendment, so they can address
some of the inefficiencies that have been identified through Justin's efforts or we can wrap
that into a request for the upcoming budget deliberations.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: Given the high number of opportunities, I guess, to use the truck fully
furnished, I would think at this point it would be better to go ahead and have another one
in the reserves ready to go. It just seems like there is too much down time to leave and I
would hate to have an incident that we needed all hands on deck and all vehicles available
and for 13,500 we didn't have it.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda June 11, 2019 – Page 57 of 396
Meridian City Council
June 4, 2019
Page 31 of 35
Winkler: Madam Roberts, yes, that is actually one of the other things that I have down in
here is -- is in all reality our job is to look at the world from a worst case scenario and so
you're exactly right, if we end up having an -- an all hands incidence to where all our
stations are out and busy and we have to absolutely call people back in, they are not
going to have a piece of equipment that's actually functional and be able to be used right
now. So, that is -- that is also another one. Also there is times to where we also in the
past sent a vehicle to California to assist with those fires, so once that vehicle is gone and
now we don't have any anything to back our own city up. So, it does have kind of a
circular effect when it comes right back around to things.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: If it wasn't beyond the traditional deadline to put it in the 2020 budget and you
had the decision today on whether to bring us a 2019 amendment or to plan to put it in
the 2020, what would you be doing?
Winkler: I'm not quite sure I follow your question. I think you're asking me if I would have
gone ahead and put this into next year's budget, is that what you're asking?
Palmer: Or would you have said this is urgent enough we are going to do a 2019
amendment?
Winkler: I would say this is urgent enough to do it now. I would also tell you if I would
have been in this position prior to February I probably would have asked to have done
this in this last year's budget. I can give you just a little bit of history of why this engine is
not equipped also if you like it's just history. It can start clear back when I started here 16
years ago and it's just things that have happened in the past is where when we tear down
a piece of apparatus or we have cascaded it, so to speak, so we are not just replacing it
and throwing it away or selling it, we are actually going to keep it as a reserve, we have
taken in the past the equipment off of that apparatus and put it on the new one and that's
how these have ended up pretty much bare bones and so over the years we have
attempted to just try and get these other apparatus a little piece by piece get some
equipment put back on them. As we have grown it just hasn't worked.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: And that satisfies me. I was just attempting to reconcile the -- the urgency that's
being spoken about now with -- with what's typed in here talking about, well, because we
are already into the 2020 process it would be 2021. So, on paper it doesn't look as urgent
as is being explained. So, if that's the case that regardless you would be wanting a 2019
amendment, I'm fine with that.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda June 11, 2019 – Page 58 of 396
Meridian City Council
June 4, 2019
Page 32 of 35
Niemeyer: Madam Mayor, if I could just jump in real quick. We talked about this at length.
The beauty of putting on a logistics chief is we find things that we didn't know were
problems -- lying in wait to use a Gordon Graham term and this is the problem lying in
wait. So, having a piece of apparatus that could go out at any point in time and be needed
at any point in time and not having the right equipment on it for the firefighters to do their
job was concerning to me. So, we discussed this as a staff. We did discuss the FY-20
budget versus the FY-19 budget amendment. As you know I don't necessarily like doing
amendments, it's not my favorite thing to do to have us standing before you, but we felt
this was critical enough to bring before you tonight to make sure that res erve is outfitted.
We are coming into fire season, we are coming into summer, call volume increases and
without the proper tools on this apparatus, if we have to put firefighters on it, we are not
doing our job to make sure that they are safe. So, that's why we are bringing it forward
now.
De Weerd: Thank you. And, Justin, I appreciate all the numbers you brought with you
tonight. Any follow-up questions from Council? Okay.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor, I move that we approve the budget amendment for Engine
39 equipment, 13,500 dollars.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 7-F, the request for a budget
amendment to equip Engine 39. Any discussion? Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, absent; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea;
Bernt, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Winkler: Thank you.
De Weerd: You passed your initiation, Justin.
Winkler: Thank you.
Item 8: Ordinances
A. Ordinance No. 19- 1827: An Ordinance To Amend The Municipal
Code Of The City Of Meridian, County Of Ada, State Of Idaho,
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda June 11, 2019 – Page 59 of 396
Meridian City Council
June 4, 2019
Page 33 of 35
Amending Title 10, Chapter 7, Section 12(E )(2), Meridian City
Code, Known As The Meridian Impact Fee Ordinance Fee
Schedule; To Provide For An Amendment To The Police, Fire,
And Parks And Recreation Impact Fee Schedules; And
Providing An Effective Date
De Weerd: Item 8-A is Ordinance 19-1827. Mr. Clerk, will you, please, read this ordinance
by title.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Nary.
Nary: Madam Mayor, before -- before Mr. Johnson reads the third reading, I guess if it's
asked, there is a couple things that were brought up in the public hearing. One was the
request by Mr. Lavoie for some rewording to clarify the average size for multi-family. So,
we do need to make an amendment change , if that's the Council's desire to do what he
requested. Secondarily, in the ordinance itself there is a blank, if you have looked at it,
for the effective date. Mr. Lavoie had previously stated that what -- because there is a
little implementation time that's necessary to do this, that the request was to implement
October 1, so we can -- if you would like us to make the amendment and if there is any
other amendments you would like us to make, we would suggest delay the third reading
until we make those amendments and , then, you could do your third reading of the
ordinance and, then, we can insert the effective date of October 1 as well.
De Weerd: Okay. Any discussion from Council or follow-up questions for Mr. Nary?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Is that a -- is that a next week to incorporate this language change or --
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Borton, if the only
requested change is the language regarding multi-family, yes. If there is others -- it
depends on how many there are.
De Weerd: And that language change should be in black and white for you to be able to
reference.
Nary: Yes. As I understood it, Madam Mayor, really all the -- the direction was is right
now it makes it sound like one generic thing for all sizes and I think we are just simply
adding language that on a multi-family unit -- or a multi -- a multi-housing unit it would be
based on the average unit size for the entire unit. So , that's a fairly simple change if that's
the direction you wish to go.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda June 11, 2019 – Page 60 of 396
Meridian City Council
June 4, 2019
Page 34 of 35
De Weerd: Do you need a motion to give you direction on that or you just bring new
language back?
Nary: Either way. You can either do it in the form of a motion, except the direction
because you would like to read it. If that's the direction the Council has as a group as a
consensus, that's certainly fine. We can, again, craft it, you can still discuss it at your
third reading if you want more tweaks than that. But that's the way I understood what Mr.
Lavoie was requesting and if that's your understanding as well, your direction is
satisfactory, so --
De Weerd: Okay. Council, is the consensus to bring this -- to continue the third reading
to next week and to have that language clarified in -- in the ordinance to be considered.
Borton: Yes.
De Weerd: Okay. I guess I have enough indicators that say we will continue the third
reading to next week's agenda.
De Weerd: And I will move to Item 9.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Borton: Sorry.
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Before we get to that, can it be -- and, Dave, you might be the member of the
public, but we have got two, 4:30 or a 6:00. Do you think we could do it at the 4:30 work
session perhaps?
Milam: The public hearing is closed.
Nary: It's up to you.
Borton: Okay. 6:00 o'clock. Keep it a 6:00. Okay. Never mind.
Item 9: Future Meeting Topics
De Weerd: Okay. Any items under Item 9? If not, I would entertain a motion to close this
meeting or adjourn.
Milam: Move that we adjourn.
Little Roberts: Second.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda June 11, 2019 – Page 61 of 396
Meridian City Council
June 4, 2019
Page 35 of 35
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to adjourn. All those in favor say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 7:42 P.M.
(AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
MAYOR TAMMY DE WEERD o�° ucusT, DATE APPROVED
o� 'moo
ATTEST:
CHRIS JOHNSONWCI
of the T