HomeMy WebLinkAbout2005 04-05 Pre
Meridian City Pre-Council Meetina
ADril 5. 2005
The Meridian City Pre-Council meeting was called to order at 5:30 P.M. on
Tuesday, April 5,.2005 by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Keith Bird, Shaun Wardle, Christine Donnell and Charlie
Rountree.
Members Absent: Mayor Tammy De Weerd.
Staff Present: Doug Strong, Brad Hawkins-Clark and Will Berg.
Item 1.
Roll-call Attendance:
Rollcall.
X Shaun Wardle X Christine Donnell
X Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird
~ Mayor Tammy de Weerd
Item 2.
Adoption of the Agenda:
Bird: Mr. President.
Wardle; Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we adopt the agenda as published.
Donnell: Second.
Wardle; It's been moved and seconded. All those in favor say aye.
ALL AYES. MOTION CARRIED.
Item 3.
Discussion of Assignment of Golf Course Lease with
Presentation by the Proposed New Operator:
Oas; Thank you very much for inviting us to speak with you tonight. Just by way
of introduction, this is Dick Davis and I am Eric Oas and we are very, very excited
to announce to you the work that we are doing on obtaining the new lease for the
City Golf Course. So, Dick with that, why don't you take it away.
Davis: Thank you, honorable Councilmen, men and women here. We have
been working for probably three or four months with the City Council, with the
present lease holders to try and acquire the, what is now called Cherry Lane Golf
Course. First of all, we are proposing a new name for this. This has to be
approved by the City Council. We are going to call it Lake View Golf Course, if
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April 5, 2005
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adopted. That just came to us one day we were out there measuring rooms and
stuff for remodeling and we looked out and saw that beautiful lake outside the
clubhouse and I think that would just be a great name for the Golf Course. Why
change the name? We are new and we would like a new name for the Golf
Course. We are going to maybe have a little different style of management than
has been in the past and we are really planning on converting this golf course
into an asset that the city and all the residents of the city will be proud of. We
think we can do it and we are anxious to get started on that task. There has
been a little connotation of maybe not the highest quality golf course in the state
and so we would like a new name to have a new beginning out there at the golf
course.
Oas: Just by way of speaking whom the new leaseholder is, I would like to
introduce that the leaseholder is actually Lake View Meridian Investors and Lake
View Meridian Investors is made up of the following individuals. First and
foremost, Dick Davis who as you know or most of you know and those of you
who don't, he is the former owner of the Boise Ranch Golf Course and Dick has
just recently - well he has owned and operated the Boise Ranch Golf Course for
the past 12 years. This golf course has a course that Dick and his team took
from being a very mediocre facility and made it into a very well maintained and
pleasing place to play. Dick is - he, I think, for most of you who know Dick he is
a very warm and pretty decent guy to get along with. I think he has really created
- what I think - Dick described to me once as being more of a family atmosphere
from all of the folks that go and play and enjoy the Boise Ranch. Dick and his
team just recently sold the Boise Ranch to another group and Dick is very ready,
willing and able for this new challenge. With regard to our part of this process, I
am Eric Oas, obviously, with Oas Laney. We are a commercial real estate
developer, residential and commercial here in the Valley. We have been
involved in the projects in this area that we have been involved in is Generations
Plaza. This was a predecessor company to the company that my partner, Steve
Laney and I have now. Steve was very active in the whole design and bringing
that whole development together into downtown Meridian. The Double D's store,
we are in the process of working with Dick and his team to. relocate the, as most
of you know, out to the site on the corner of Victory and Meridian Road. What we
plan to do is introduce a new office building into the site where it currently is
located near the railroad tracks and then the other project that we are involved
with here in the Meridian areas, we have a residential project going on the corner
of Locust Grove and Victory. We are also involved in developments in the Boise
area as well as in Nampa, but we love the Treasure Valley and this is where our
home is and this is where we intend to stay. The other investors that we plan to
involve are - because this will be an LLC leaseholder, we will be presenting this
opportunity unrelated other investors who haven't expressed an interest in
investing in this company. Dick?
Davis: Okay. How do we complete the transaction? Well, first of all -
(inaudible) got there, I am trying to schedule a meeting with the Men's
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April 5, 2005
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Association Officer's for Thursday night and one thing I really want to see is a
strong and active Men's and Women's Association and league out there. I think
it's good for the members, it's good for the golf course and it's a lot of fun. That's
one thing we have done at Boise Ranch is really had an active Men's and
Women's Association, so I am going to try and change the pessimism into
optimism and get people out to play golf on Men's league night and the women
typically play during the day - we are going to look maybe not this year, but
starting an evening women's league, but for the ladies that are working, but also
participate in ladies. One thing we have done at Boise Ranch is we build our
men's league up this last year at our Men's Association meeting was the first
night they could sign up for men's league. We limited it to 120 people because
that's what fills up the golf course and it took us less than an hour to sign up 120
people and that's what I want to see happening out here at Cherry Lane is lots of
participation and lots of people having a good time. We have already signed a
purchase agreement with Cherry Lane Recreation, Inc., well I guess we have
verbally agreed to all the terms - we haven't signed the agreement yet, but we
are shooting at closing this deal around the 201/1 of this month. We are
interviewing people. I have talked to pretty well all the employees there. We
want to keep all the personnel that is there now. They are all good people and
they know what they are doing and that's what I need is somebody to help me
along. We are looking at maybe hiring a new additional superintendent type
person. I am going to talk to Tom Funkhauser about maybe being the irrigation
superintendent because I really want to green up all the areas that aren't green
and full of weeds and I think it's going to take one guy just pretty well full time too
because we have got to do a lot of hand watering this year. . We are going to start
on the irrigation system, but for this year it's going to take a lot of hand watering
and that is going to be a person that - it's going to be pretty much full time and
Tom understands that irrigation system and he is a great guy and so I am going
to and I haven't yet, but I wanted to meet with him today, but it didn't work out. I
am going to try and meet with him tomorrow and see if something like that will
work for him, but anyway, we have got to negotiate the terms of maintenance
standard with the City of Meridian. Ted and I met this morning and we went over
the guidelines for maintenance there. This is something that you as residents
really need because we are partners with the city and we are taking care of their
asset, so we need some guidelines and so that we get a decent report card.
They have got to come and look at that thing and they will hear from the
residents, but we want to provide a very, very nice facility for people to play on
and the whole rules and regulations that we have to live by as leasees and Ted
and I are working on that right now. One of the first things that we want to do is
build a new maintenance facility. The maintenance facility has been over at
Nita's house and she sold her property, so we are desperately in need of a
maintenance facility and we are going to get it built before we run out of time on
her facility. So, we are going parking equipment outside. It's the only place to
park it. We may look at a temporary - some type of a temporary tent or
something to put stuff under, depending on how the construction is going on the
maintenance facility, but we want to build a 4,500 to 6,000 square foot
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April 5, 2005
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maintenance facility that we can store our equipment in and repair equipment as
needed. . As we go along, you know that's the closing is the 20th of April and the
final approval of course with the lease and the City of Meridian would take place
on 4126. We assume we are going to take over and I think we have agreed with
these ladies and gentlemen that we want to be partners with each other and so I
think that's pretty well a done deal. Okay, changes. Of course the name. The
name will be changed. We are also going to offer maybe a unique thing, it's not
going to be a country club, so don't get that idea when I say memberships. It's a
public golf course, but we are going to offer memberships to people and we
haven't worked out all the particulars of these. It might be a five-year
membership that they pay for and they get reduced fees, they will get some
bennies in the clubhouse. We are going to offer social memberships to people
that don't play golf because we plan on expanding the bar and restaurant and
making that a fun, good place to go eat and have a drink with your friends. We
will be offering some memberships along those lines. We aren't going to refuse
service to anybody, you know, that wants to play golf. That isn't what the
memberships is about, it's just if people want to buy a five year deal, they are
going to save a little money and get some extra bids, like maybe preferred
(inaudible) or something along that line. We haven't worked all that out yet, but
as we go along we will work with the city and do that. I have already mentioned
the maintenance facility that we are proposing and the public hearing notice on
that is the 19th of this month, so we need all the support we can get on that. Our
plan is to basically do three holes really, really, concentrate on three holes a
year. That don't mean we are going to let the other (inaudible --) but we have
got a long-range plan. The irrigation needs a lot of work on it and so we have
worked out a deal with the city that we are going to try and identify three holes a
year, but we may be rebuilding some greens, definitely upgrading fairways, we
probably will have a tree planting project with the homeowners if they want to
plant a tree out in front of their yard they can work with us on where to locate
those things. We will take care of it. We just need it located so that the
sprinklers don't miss the grass behind it and so that we can get our lawnmowers
around it and everything like that. So, anyway, three holes a year. We are going
to extend the bar and restaurant like I said to have some nice dinners out there.
We can have Christmas parties for organizations and we are going to name the
bar Bogies. You know any golfer knows what a bogie is. But also you can sit
there and you can look at Bogus Basin from the bar and it's really a beautiful
sight where we plan to build the bar. You can look out at the lake and see Bogus
Basin and so Bogie kind of goes with the golf industry and also one of the
amenities that we have there. This is something that we have really been
begging for from the City Council as we would really like an off-premise sign and
we are thinking on Cherry Lane because the golf course is kind of back there in
the middle and nobody sees it and we would like a sign out there, you know
some place that we can take care of a little area and have a nice sign that you
know that maybe we have a special on hamburgers this day or you know, steak
dinners on Friday night or something like that that we can advertise to the people
that are going up and down the road because if we put it on the golf course,
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April 5, 2005
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nobody is going to see it but the golfers. But, we are working with the city to try
and secure a place to put a nice sign.
Oas; Dick, you might talk about the success you had at Boise Ranch with events
like this and with your signage.
Davis: Yeah, we put up - I actually just took over managing at Boise Ranch
solely about three and half or four years ago and one of the first things I did was
put in a big sign on the road there and you can't believe the people that - my
favorite special was the burger in a bucket for $7.50. In other words they get a
bucket of balls and a hamburger for $7.50 and it's a great lunch deal for people,
but if they don't know about, if we don't have any way of advertising it, why it just
don't work and so anyway, those are good. The tennis court thing was
something that was brought up to us and I see no problem - we are planning on
putting the maintenance facility to the south of the dubhouse, there is just a big
lot of weeds there and it grows up to be weeds and it looks to be horrible. We
think that a nice maintenance facility with some asphalt around it and no weeds
which would actually add to the appearance of the place and then we can put
some tennis courts on this end or we can put some tennis courts on the north
end, the north side of the dubhouse. This is something that the city mentioned to
us and it would just be more recreation for Meridian residents and I see no
problem with that and we plan to listen. We are planning right after we take over
of having and I am thinking four nights of homeowners and I believe we have got
the addresses on everybody on the course? Is that not right? So, we will be
mailing out a mailer to have a bull session, but I think we need to divide it up into
four nights because I don't think we can get everybody in the room if we have it
one night and so we are going to do it by house numbers and we want to just sit
and listen to see what the residents want, you know, the people that live around
the golf course and the people in the City of Meridian, we want to listen. We
can't do everything, you know. We got to run the thing so that it makes money
for us or we wouldn't be doing this, but we want to make it as congenial as it can
be to all the people. I already mentioned the adopt a tree program.
Oas: I think, Dick, that sort of concludes the formal part of the presentation, we
are certainly open to any questions that City Council has.
Wardle: Thank you very much. One of the points of clarification that I just want
to make about this process is the fact that the partnership, Lake View Golf
Course partnership and the LLC is purchasing. assets from Cherry Lane
recreation. The discussion we are having tonight is about the city assigning the
current lease that we have with Cherry Lane Recreation to a new tenant. The
one thing that the city is exercising in that lease option is an adoption of a new
set of standards and so in just a minute I am going to turn the conversation over
to the standards, but in the back of the room on the table is a set of standards
that everyone can have a copy of and we will take comments on them in just a
minute, but I am going to have our Deputy City Attorney, Ted Baird, who has
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AprilS, 2005
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been working very diligently and thank you very much Ted and have him discuss
the standards and part of that negotiation.
Baird; Thank you Council member Wardle and members of the Council. As we
went through the process of discussing the city's expectations with the potential
new operator, one of the problems that we did identify with the existing
agreement was the total lack of teeth in the maintenance standards. The current
language just merely refers to maintenance at the level of similar municipal golf
courses in the area. So, what we thought we would do is since the city has the
opportunity to approve a new - an assumption of the lease that we would take
the opportunity to add some additional maintenance terms. I do have a two page
handout that's in the back of the room if anybody wants to - if you haven't
already picked it up you can pick it up on the way out, but what we attempted to
do is set forth a specific standard, our basic aesthetics expectations as well as
break it down to the individual maintenance obligations. The second page goes
through the number of mowings on various parts of the course per week; how
often items should be watered, fertilized, air rated, groomed, how various aspects
of the facility should be cleaned, serviced and checked. So, we put specific
numerical standards in there that if the public or the City Councilor anyone feels
that the quality of the maintenance is not up to par, we can go out and monitor it
and invoke some of the other remedies that will be in the lease agreement and
we have every expectation that these people who will be operating have every
intent to improve the facility in the way that they have presented it today, but
what we are also looking at is into the future for the next City Council and the
next set of residents in the neighborhood as people forget the promises that were
made today that we have got a document that's in writing that will be survived for
the future and like I say, we tried to break it down into specific standards. I will
stand for questions at this point.
Wardle: Thank you, Ted and I just - Dick if you could answer this just in the
general question we have had this as part of our discussions, but what sort of
dollar figure do you feel have you budgeted to make these improvements, albeit
over the course of time, but we are talking a pretty large dollar figure.
Davis; Yes, we are talking well in excess of $2 million.
Baird: Councilman Wardle if I could add that that was one of other ambiguities in
the current agreement is that it was unclear as to who would be paying and in the
new agreement we make it clear that the maintenance and the physical
improvements will be at no expense to the city or the tax payers that the
operators is taking on that full obligation.
Wardle; Mr. Bird.
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April 5, 2005
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Bird: Yes, Dick, you know we have quite a few people on the back nine that want
to put up a membership and it was called a lifetime membership or something.
Are you going to continue to honor that?
Davis: When they built the back nine?
Bird: Yeah, they donated money and stuff and then in return or they bought-
Rountree: John can tell you.
Bird: Yeah, John Ewing is the one of -
Davis: Well, I don't want John out there -
Bird: But, there are some other nicer guys that do - but there was, I think, Mr.
Berg is about the only one that was sitting up here that was familiar with that In
fact I think his family bought one of those. Are we -
Berg: It was by both parties. Council President Wardle if I could just add a
couple of things. The return on investment of money or in kind donations was
some kind of membership pass for and I don't remember how many years, if it
was ten years or fifteen years or something of that nature to get that back nine
improved. John Ewing was one of them that was given some of that in kind
donation as well as people that gave monetary and I don't remember the length
of time, but both the city and the Cherry Lane Recreation signed off on giving that
to them. Of course, the indebtedness is when you go out there to play golf the
city isn't the operator at the time, so it is the Cherry Lane Golf course that really
pays for the use of that pass and I don't remember how many passes were given
out, it depended on how much money or in kind donation there was.
Davis: We would certainly look at that Keith and yeah, I don't know what it would
entail, but I did hear that John and Terry got one-
(Inaudible speaker and discussion)
Davis: We could have a father son out there -
Speaker?: I believe the agreement though was made by the City of Meridian, not
- so whatever you work out is fine, I certainly didn't come to claim that out. That
is fine, but I think the agreement was not made you know with (inaudible) the City
of Meridian and again, I don't truthfully know if anybody that I just named there
that (inaudible--). I shouldn't say they don't (inaudible ---) that is something
that if it becomes an issue we could certainly be worked out on my part, I can't
speak for the other ones, but I don't think the other ones probably don't even
know (inaudible-).
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
April 5, 2005
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Davis: John and I and Terry Cook from Cloverdale and the people from Nampa
Paving we have a father son golf tournament every year, so that's why I was
joking about the father son golf tournament.
Wardle: One of the things that I would just like to point to is the process that we
are going through. This is the first and we are going to take some public
testimony in just a minute - this is the first kind of announcement - Friday's
paper and the Mayor's State of the City Address was probably the first time that
anyone had heard some of these negotiations were going on and so this is the
first opportunity for the new operator to present this. They have got some due
diligence that obviously they are doing with the current tenant and what will
happen is we will bring this forward April 26th, I am working with the Clerk's
Office, but at 6:30 P.M. in a Pre-Council setting here for some official action from
the City Council. So, what we will be asking this evening for direction for the
Council to proceed forward to the 26th, we will still be taking and will have
opportunity for people to comment from now until then. Is that your
understanding, Ted?
Baird: That is correct.
Wardle; I would like to invite - thank you very much Dick for your presentation
and Eric and if we have some questions after if anyone would like we will bring
you back up, but I would like to open the floor to anyone that has a comment, a
question, anything specific to the standards we would welcome at this time.
Gordon?
Marguiluex: Gordon Marguiluex, 2040 Interlochen Way in Meridian, Idaho. We
live within earshot of the clubhouse and so there is a couple of things that I
wanted to just sort of ask and certainly appreciate the work done to try and
improve the golf course and Dick seems to be a real nice guy. I haven't met him
for a long - but there are a couple things. One is a couple of months ago we
were talking about problems with people on the golf course - when it changed
the trespassing law and I guess that was sort of put on hold, but it's still an issue
because we see people on the golf course, kids particulary walking across and
there doesn't seem to be anything done about that. I would like to see what Dick
has in mind to do that because I am sure he doesn't want kids getting hit by golf
balls also. I don't agree that there should be a trespassing ordinance, but we
need to have something that targets them, but I think we do need to address that
because it is a safety issue. As to and I want to make sure that what the Council
is presenting is that we have the same lease, but we have an addendum to that
for the maintenance and is any funds at all going to occur for the city? Of my
understanding there isn't other than maintenance - just the legal stuff of getting it
finalized?
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April 5, 2005
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Wardle: At this time, that's what we are talking about and all that the operator -
well, I'll let Dick address some of your concerns as soon as you are done, if that's
okay with you Gordon?
Marguiluex: Yeah. One of the reasons I ask that. is that I also remember it
wasn't too long ago that the city came up with an agreement with Cherry Lane to
share equipment and they were going to - the city was apparently going to buy
the equipment and Cherry Lane was going to maintain it or something along that
line. This was something that was probably about nine months ago that the city
was going to - have gone into an agreement with the golf course and this was
again out of the Statesman where they were going to sort of jointly own some
equipment and maintain it. Are there fuel tanks that are going to be on the site
near the maintenance shed? The reason why is that I looked at that sheet of
paper that talked about and it's right next to, in fact, the corner that we are talking
about is a corner that has open irrigation ditches. So, there is ditches on two
sides of where the shed is going to be and the question is is there any
environmental safety stuff that needs to be addressed for that? They are going
to be storing pesticides in there. My understanding is it's supposed to be very
similar to the shed that is at the golf course right now on Cloverdale, which has I
believe a gravel floor or concrete? Concrete, okay, so we need to figure out if
that's a safety issue there. Between the time when the old storage area goes
and the new one - they mentioned about a tent - does it need to have any
approval for that tent? Especially sense that is going to be visible to the
homeowners that are just probably fifty feet away. Another question and I am
sure this will be brought up at the meeting where we talk about the shed. How
tall is the shed? Because it's another issue. There will be people who won't be
able to see Bogus Basin because there will be a new shed up there and will there
by any barriers? Will they be planting trees? Will they be doing something
around it to block the view of that? I don't envision seeing the shed, but other
people in the neighborhood had mentioned that. One that concerns me is the
thought of creating a bar that is dose to a school and also in the area that is not
surrounded by berms, the original tent, I believe, when they put in the dubhouse
was that they weren't going to have a bar there and thanks to the City Council on
the February 8111 they approved the clubhouse to be open 24 hours a day, they
made an exception in the noise ordinance that allowed them. The noise
ordinance that was approved and should be amended gave an exception sound
clause by activities upon any outdoor municipality, which is the golf course,
school, religious or publidy owned property, the golf course or provides that such
activities authorized by the owner of the property, Dick over here, or facilities of
it's agents. So, if he decides he wants to have an all night party according to the
ordinance that is an exception and the exception says that they can have
anything between eleven at night and six in the morning. That is pretty much,
basically, 24 hours a day. I suggest that they amend it to say that any privately
owned facilities on public property has to adhere to the - instead of just saying
anything on a public owned land. Let's see what else. The time limit for the
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April 5, 2005
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lease, is it going to be extended or is it just - you know because it has like 25
more years on it? Is it going to be extended?
Donnell: I think that's part of the negotiations.
Wardle; Yes, and I believe. Do you want me to address your concerns one at a
time or just that one specifically?
Bird: Mr. President.
Wardle; Mr. Bird.
Bird: Let Ted address the noise thing that he is spouting off about.
Wardle: Okay, if we can back up and address the noise ordinance again real
quick with our city staff. Ted?
Baird: Are we done with the lists?
Marguiluex; Oh, no, but I will try and keep it short. If you want to address the
noise ordinance, I am just reading it -
Baird: If I could start out just by saying we are here to talk about the new
operation of the golf course and the assumption of the lease. However, I think
that your concerns can be addressed in the document that we are creating that
sets forth the new terms upon which the lease will be assumed. The trespass
and the safety issue are totally separate from the operation of the golf course and
I encourage you to continue to work with the city on your concerns on that. I am
going to set that aside as not being relevant to the discussion tonight. However,
with the noise and the noise ordinance, the way that the current ordinance is
drafted, it talks about activity allowed by the owner of the facility. The city is the
owner of the golf course in general and what we intend to do is set specific hours
of operation when we sign off on the assumption of the lease. So, if you have
concerns about particular hours, I encourage you to put that on the record that
your wishes by known.
Marguiluex: So be it. That is why I am bringing these up. Certainly my
understanding was that we had the old lease with an amendment attached to it
and the amendment was basically the maintenance. So, the thing that you were
talking about setting different hours or setting extended leases, those are
additional pieces that we are taking -
Baird: We are taking the opportunity that any ambiguity that currently exists, we
are taking this opportunity to fix it within the confines within the terms of the
existing lease. So, they are just basically add-ons like you characterized. If I
could address the other legal issues very briefly. With regard to any storage and
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
April 5, 2005
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use of chemicals and other environmental conditions, we have got a provision in
there that they have agreed to handle it according to all relevant standards and
that they are also indemnifying their carrying insurance and indemnifying the city
for any spills that may occur or any mishandling, so we have thought about that
and we have covered that. They have agreed to comply with any applicable
regulation with regards to the maintenance shed and if there is any requirement
with the temporary structure I am sure that they will comply with that. Perhaps
our Planning and Zoning staff could comment on that as well. Those were the
legal issues that I noted, perhaps at this time, Mr. Wardle-
Wardle: Let me just an opportunity - for the maintenance facility there will be a
separate hearing before this body on the 1911> and we haven't seen the plans for
the facility and so -
Marguiluex: And neither have I, but they are available.
Wardle: Yes, by the 19th for the operator. Your question to the extension of the
lease, I believe the operator is asking for an extension and will be asking for that.
I'll let them address a specific timeframe if you'd like to do that now or if you have
a couple more comments you can make those.
Marguiluex: Well (inaudible-). So, what is the extension?
Wardle: I believe they are asking to extend it to a thirty-year term.
Marguiluex: So, before 1 forget - so thirty more years or -?
Wardle: Twenty-seven, I believe if that's correct and extending that an additional
three years.
Baird: Those issues are still under negotiations. The request from the operator
and I don't want to speak for them and I will let them address this, but it has to do
with their ability to seek financing for the infrastructure improvements that they
are committing to and that's the only reason we are reopening that term of
negotiations.
Marguiluex: Because they are the additional things besides the maintenance
that's going to be at the addendum, when will that be available for viewing from
the public standpoint?
Baird: Mr. Wardle. The lease will be on the agenda for the meeting on the 26th
and that will be released to the public pursuant to the general release of the
agenda that will be available on the Clerk's website when the Clerk posts the
agenda for that particular meeting for Friday.
Donnell: The Friday before.
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April 5, 2005
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Marguiluex: The Friday before? Yeah, I didn't know if there was some
timeframe that if you were voting or something that you had to have it available to
the public.
Wardle: It'll be available during public hearing, but the Clerk will have it on the
website typically they post it Friday on or about five o'clock and if you would like
to talk with Will he can get you the site that you can actually go to and see if it's
there.
Marguiluex: It's under golf course documents?
Wardle: It will actually be under probably the City Council. You go to meetings,
go to City Council and then under that agendas.
Marguiluex; And why we are at it is it possible to get the slides that were
presented on the website, too, under the golf course document files?
Wardle: We will ask the operator if they would like that and if -
Marguiluex: I think other people would be interested in that. So, I think - with
the changes in the lease, is it possible right now because the city receives very
little funds from the golf course, in fact, it seems to me that they put in more than
they get back. For many years we would get one dollar. I think we are up to like
$600 now or $6,000. In Nampa and this has been brought up many times. In
Nampa they have a rec center that they built with funds that came back partially
from the golf course agreement they had there. I understand that Mr. Davis and
his associates are putting in a lot of expense into this golf course. I really
appreciate it because it needs it. Maybe we can cut them some slack in the very
beginning, but once that six years is over with, whether they hit every hole and is
- since we are re-negotiating a contract this seems like it's a pretty good re-
negotiation - that we change that maybe we change that maybe 1 o percent what
they have in Centennial to be able to do that so that we can start using these
funds to make more parks because Meridian is getting bigger - to do other things
with that. Maybe not a rec center, but maybe something that we could use those
funds to better use than to - $6,000 doesn't seem like very much.
Bird: Yes, sir, I would like you to tell me all the money that the city has put into it,
since 1978.
Marguiluex: Well, I have got to say that they are not always - they get paid back.
You know I remember a few years back when they were given to other nine
holes that the city loaned the golf course out of the sewer fund. I think it was
$300,000 and they did get that money back, not from the golf course, they got it
back from impact fees, but they did get that back. I remember also a couple of
years later, they were talking to the patrons saying we need to increase our
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
April 5, 2005
Page 13 of 20
sewer fee because we our funds are getting kind of low. I am just saying that
$6,000 on a golf course lease a year doesn't seem to be bringing back - maybe
you can explain to me how a golf course that is rated the worst - that's why I
appreciate Mr. Davis's effort to improve this here - the worst golf course in the
Valley and how I can go out on the golf course or look over the fence because I
don't want to - or get hit by a golf ball. I can look out over the fence and see very
few people playing on the golf course. When I talk to people who golf they say I
don't play because it's just ugly and why that's a benefit to Meridian. Why
Meridian could even look the citizens in the face and say that's our golf course. I
mean that's why I am happy to see someone willing to take that and improve it
and I am willing to cut them some slack, but $6,000 doesn't seem like a whole
lot. What did you do with $6,000 that you got from the golf course last year.
Maybe you can answer that.
Bird: It went into the Parks general fund and I am sure they -
Marguiluex: (Inaudible ---)
Bird; You are comparing it to Nampa to Ridgecrest and Centennial and they are
altogether different. The City of Nampa built those. They should have the
returns on them. The Lovan family put all the money into to the course. The city
never put any into it until the expansion was done and that was off of impact
fees, which has also bought the other Parks we have got around here. That's
what impact fees are for. It's for the public deal. These gentlemen are willing to
put in a couple of million dollars to improve it. Cherry Lane Golf Course will
never be a Centennial, nor will it ever be a Ridgecrest. I don't care if Dick makes
it a PGA's standard golf course - the location and the tightness of it does not
allow the average the poor golfer like me to score very good, so if we get a
chance we are going to go to Centennial where it is wide open.
(Tape turned over)
Wardle; If there is anyone else that would like some availability or ask the
operator to respond we have got just a couple of minutes.
Marguiluex: Sorry that it's taking so long, so one of the things that we lacked on
the old agreement are consequences for not performing to keep the golf course
up. This current agreement does not have consequences in it. It doesn't say
what happens if they don't do what they are supposed to do because it doesn't
talk about defaults. Also, is there levels because this here agreement right now,
back on the - doesn't say - it just says you will maintain some GPA or USGA
standards, but is there different levels of standards? Because right now that was
the problem that we had with the old lease. There was nothing to determine how
we evaluate standards. Is there a level one, level two, level three? Can we say
we want this to be this particular level of standard? These are just questions.
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
April 5, 2005
Page 14 of 20
Wardle: And if you will give us just a moment, we will take some more input and
then I will have the operator and our staff address those specific standards.
Marguiluex: I was just wondering on the back here and the schedule and where
it came from. Is this a USGA or is this just a list of activity? I am kind of
concerned because if they come up with a better way of maintaining the golf
course, I don't want to limit them to what's on the backyard. I would rather just
say you have this standard, this is how you evaluate it and go with that instead of
trying to tell them when to mow the lawn.
Bird: Sir, they are businessmen. If it's the improvement and it draws more
money for them, they are going to do it, whether that standard is says it or not.
Marguiluex: And I certainly hope so. I appreciate your time. Thank you very
much.
Wardle: Thank you for your comments. Is there anyone else that would like to
comment before we bring up the operator and then have Ted maybe address
those specific standards?
Myers: My name is Burt Meyers, 3540 West Woodmont, Meridian. Among other
things I am president of the Cherry Lane 3, 4 and 5 Homeowner's Association,
who are very involved with the golf course. I have listened to this for a long time
about this lease thing and those of you that weren't here when this thing was put
together, which I was, there was nobody that wanted that golf course. Mayor
Storey at the time says the city doesn't want a golf course. The developer says
well we will give it to you, but nobody wanted to take it. We tried to find people
that wanted it and nobody wanted it. (Inaudible) comes forward and says okay,
here is what I will do and he did. Now, I have to say that I am not a lawyer, thank
goodness, but from what I understand from talking to some of these guys is that
lease was probably not drawn up the best it could have been, but at that time it
was the best that we could come up with and it worked and times change. The
golf course changed, the people changed, the subdivision changed. All those
houses came in there and as Keith says it's pretty dang tight right now. It wasn't
so tight then because it wasn't houses then but they still had the out of bounds
and things just started going down hill from the developer because he went belly
up after he built the first nine, he was supposed to get the other nine in and he
didn't come back to do that and that's why it took so long to get it in and finally
Mayor Kingsford got this idea that he could get these funds borrowed and get
people to donate stuff like the contractor guy over here with a big piece of
equipment sitting around and said yeah we could go do that and they got it done
and I am going to tell you it probably isn't the best in the world, but it got done.
The big thing they have a problem with is they have been talking about is the
irrigation system. That was never done right in the first place, but we didn't know
that. The developer said here it is and you don't look a pig in the poke, I guess
or whatever, but anyway the one question that I have is are you going to keep
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
April 5, 2005
Page 15 of 20
the season ticket holders and are you going to honor this year? That was most
important.
Bird; I have a question for Mr. Meyers. Burt, do you know of any time on those
irrigation systems that the city put any money into that old original nine that Wally
- I mean, Wally put every penny that went into that thing after the bankruptcy - I
mean, am I not right?
Meyers: That's right. The city never put a nickel into it.
Wardle: Is there anyone else that would like to come forward? Mr. Davis, Mr.
Oas if you would like to address some of those specifically. I think Burt had a
specific question for you.
Davis: There was one that we weren't going to renew. Now all season passes
are going to be honored, all pro-shop credits are going to be honored and if you
have got some pro-shop credits from the tournament or something, those will all
be honored. So, don't worry about that. Passes are all honored. Okay, now let's
see - the terms of the lease, what we have asked for is we are investing $2.5
million dollars in this thing and that's a substantial amount of money even to a
guy like John Ewing and you know we are business people like he said. We
need some return on our investment and we are willing to take this thing and run
with it and make a jewel out of it and yes there are - we have all of these
parameters that we have to live by and Ted and I and another documenter -
there are some hand slapping things if we don't get - we can get our lease jerked
from us if we don't maintain it properly, so there is some teeth in the total
agreement on this thing. We are asking for a 3D-year lease, with a 3D-year
renewal for us to be able to get our money back out of it. We haven't got it, but
that's what we are asking for. So, there are plenty of standards. As far as the
height of the building, the building is 15 feet tall, the maintenance facilities that
we are proposing. A golf course has to have a maintenance facility that you can
use. Where you put it, is up in the air, but if you don't have some place to put
your equipment and take care of it (inaudible). So, I don't think the residents
would like us repairing under a shade tree, which is what we are going to have to
do for a couple of months, but anyway, I can't think of anything else. Eric do you
have anything to add to that?
Oas; The only other item is that we would be more than happy to make our
slides available if anyone would like a copy, there is nothing confidential in this. I
guess the only other point that I would make to Council and everyone is that
although (inaudible) 30 year lease and the extension is critically important and it's
critically important because it gives us as Dick pointed out it gives us and the
investors who are investing money in (inaudible---) our dollars will go
farther. It gives them an opportunity to get a return. (Inaudible---) then we
are obviously are not going to be able to attract investors that we need to have.
(Inaudible- ~ ).
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
April 5, 2005
page 16 of 20
Davis: Well, you know and I might add in our budget we are losing a ton of
money the first two years beceuse there is no play, but we are going to put on a
full maintenance staff. I budgeted the same maintenance staff that we have at
Boise Ranch, where we get 42,000 rounds a year. So, the same maintenance
staff is budgeted for this. We have got repairs to do. We are going to lose a ton
of money for a couple of years out there just to get this thing going right.
(Speaker unknown): (Inaudible--
).
Davis: They are probably going to go up a little bit. We are not going to go crazy
with this because like he said we are business people. You know you can't price
it more than the market will bear, but we are immediately going to do some
improvements there so the green fees probably will change.
Oas: Anyone who would like to have copies of the slides please, let me know,
give me the name - we have a couple copies here, but we would be more than
happy to get more.
Wardle: Thank you very much. Any other comments from Council? I would
encourage anyone who would like to contact the city, certainly can contact me
direct and if you would like to stick around for just a moment, I believe that Eric
and Dick would give some contact information for y.ou as well. The public
hearing on the maintenance facility is again on the 19'" and then I am hopefully
going to entertain a motion in just a minute to move to the 26th and have all those
documents available for potential decision by the Council. With that, Council, do
I hear a motion to-
Bird: Mr. President.
Wardle: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move that we bring back on April 26, 2005, the negotiated contract with
the new leasing of the Meridian golf course.
Donnell: Second.
Wardle: Thank you very much. We have motioned and seconded and I will take
a roll call vote, Mr. Clerk.
Roll Call Vote: Bird, aye; Donnell, aye; Rountree, aye; Wardle, aye. All ayes.
ALL AYES. MOTION CARRIED.
Rountree: Mr. President.
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
April 5, 2005
Page 17 of 20
Wardle: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I guess the final comment on my part is one I appreciate the
gentlemen stepping up and moving forward on the golf course, but now that
everybody is milling around I wanted to express my gratitude to the Council
President for taking this ball that I tossed in his direction about a little over a year
ago and a job well done. Thank you Shaun.
Wardle: Mr. Berg.
Berg: Thank you Mr. President. I direct this to Ted a little bit, but we did have a
conditional use on the clubhouse when that was negotiated and built and there is
some conditions put on that clubhouse for operation time and things of that
nature and we will get that information to you, so you can review that because
there are conditions that were put in because there was a residential area and it's
expected to have a bar and restaurant in that clubhouse.
Donnell: Thank you Clerk Berg.
Item 4.
Communities in Motion Presentation by Brad Hawkins-Clark:
Hawkins-Clark: Well, it's not mine, so if I could just pass out a couple of
handouts. If I could just have one minute to set up the slide here, please.
Wardle: That's fine. Thanks Brad. Let's just take a quick five-minute recess.
Recess.
Wardle: I would like to bring us back to order. Again, Item No.4, Brad Hawkins-
Clark Communities in Motion.
Hawkins-Clark: Sorry about that. So, this ten-minute talk which was supposed
to be 20, which was originally intended to be half an hour or 30. I guess maybe I
need a little direction. How much would you - do you already understand? This
arrangement between the Communities in Motion process and the blueprint for
good growth. You are familiar with it and the relationship between the two?
Rountree: I don't know anything about it.
Hawkins-Clark: Well, you can just put deaf ears on. Why don't I hit about five
slides in this handout here. One of the things that we are trying to do just now is
to get DVD hooked up as well as this PowerPoint overhead, but there is a video
that COMPASS has just recently had available to them that we will certainly
make it available to the Council to see, but it's an 11 minute summation basically
of these public workshops that initiated this process. I saw just a little bit of it, it
looks very good. It's a good summary, so we will get that to you so you can
Meridian City Pre-councU Meeting
April 5, 2005
Page 18 of 20
watch those on your own, but I think a couple of points to make on these two
processes the why in terms of what's driving this whole process is on the second
page there and largely the projection of population going from approximately
500,000 a day to 920,000. Employment increasing basically almost double. The
Communities in Motion, of course, is a process that's largely transportation
oriented, the Blueprint for good growth largely land use oriented. Elements of
each are woven into those. As you know we have got a couple of scenarios, this
is scenario planning that are sort of been the focus up to this point in the process
and on page 5 at the handout on the top there the slide kind of highlights the
difference between these two. (Inaudible) scenario is important to both of these
processes. The Blueprint for good growth is going to focus on the tools to
implement that and then the transportation of course is Communities in Motion. I
think maybe what would be most helpful at this point is that you know that
coming up on the 18th COMPASS Board is going to have on their agenda
whether or not they decided, I guess, is a little bit up in the air right now, but a
decision on the preferred scenario. It has been boiled down to two and both of
those scenarios are kind of broken out in this hand out and again we have got all
kinds of background and data on them, but they start on page 12 of the handout
in terms of telling you what the difference is between this mixed use corridor and
the blended and in the most simplistic terms possible, the mixed use corridor is
saying we want the growth to be largely oriented around our state highways and
some of our principal arterials - State Highway 44, Chinden, 20/26, Union
Pacific, 1-84 and let's put a lot of growth in those areas. It involves more infill
than the other scenario and it is going to require more multi-family housing in the
future. The other scenario is a little bit more focused on the areas of city impact,
not quite so dense, not quite so much focus on multi-family housing. Again, this
is very simplistic, but the other thing to keep in mind is that we probably not just
choosing these two scenarios. Ideally, we will come up with yet another one that
will be as Trish Neilson mentioned today that the plan ultimately is what we are
striving for here. The scenarios are trying to say it a simple way, here's kind of
the principles of each. I think the comments that this group is looking for and that
it will be decided by COMPASS on April 18th, what the preferred scenario will be
is largely are you in support of this mixed-use corridor that has a more equal
housing mix or are you more inclined to this blended scenario which also is quite
a different growth pattern than what this Valley has had to date. I think both will
bring challenges and a lot of opportunity for us, but there are key elements of
both. If you have studied them at all and the maps are in this handout, you will
see that actually north Meridian and Meridian in general is pretty under
populated. They recognize that so you probably don't need to spend too much
time commenting on that because I think everyone recognizes that the numbers
so far have shown that to be pretty under populated given the platting that we
have seen in the city. So, I think some of that is going to be tweaked, but on a
broader scale do you think that the region as a whole can have those growth
patterns, one or the other and I think giving comments to the Mayor before the
18th would be good while also on Monday a week from yesterday, we are going
to be focusing on these so if you could take just a few minutes and call us at the
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
April 5, 2005
Page 19 of 20
P&Z Department or email us or whatever and say if you have concerns that you
want us to bring up Monday with the consultants, we are going to be focusing in
on a little bit more on just Meridian. So far this is a sixth county project, the
Communities in Motion is and we are going to try and focus a little bit more on
what is the background to the Meridian growth and so we can bring your
concerns to that meeting and then hopefully pass that on for the COMPASS
Board meeting, which is going to follow a couple of days after that. There are a
couple of handouts here that gives you the web address and the phone numbers
of the consultants who are working on both the Communities in Motion and
Blueprint for Good Growth so it's a nice easy handout and reference for you. I
will hand that out and if you have got any questions, I guess that's about all the
time we have got.
Wardle: Council, do you have any questions for Brad at this time?
Bird: I do not, Mr. President.
Donnell: Mr. President.
Wardle: Ms. Donnell.
Donnell: Brad, did I understand you to say that - go back to your comment about
Meridian being under populated. Did I hear you say that?
Hawkins-Clark: Right.
Donnell; Which - all of Meridian? A certain part of Meridian? Say that again to
me.
Hawkins-Clark: Sure.
Rountree; Explain what you mean by that. I know what you mean, but I know
where Christine is coming from.
Hawkins-Clark: One of the things that they do or have done that the consultants
have done is at these workshops they took - here's all these chips, this is the big
map, this is where we think rural should go, residential - we want to protect this
area, we want to preserve this area, let's put this here. What the consultants do
is they kind of just took these maps that were done at 44 or 45 tables, 500
participants and started to digitize all of this information and put it into the
computer and come up with general land use categories and those land use
categories then get applied at least in this case for Meridian at certain densities
and they came in at much lower densities - a state type densities for our north
Meridian area like one dwelling unit per acre verses what we already been
approved at, you know around 3 or 3 % dwelling units per acre. So, it's showing
Meridian City Pre-CouncU Meeting
April 5. 2005
Page 20 of 20
projected population to be less than what we even already have on the books let
alone is that really what we want. So, does that help?
Donnell: Yes, it does. Thank you.
Hawkins-Clark: Meridian Development Corporation did have a presentation by
Steve, I think, just this week and they talked a little bit more specifically about the
effects of these plans on downtown. He did have some more information that
focused you know kind of on that discussion, but that information is available. I
just wanted to point that out.
Wardle: Thank you. Anything else from Brad? Brad thank you very much for
your presentation.
Hawkins-Clark: Here are the forms for you.
Wardle: We will be sure to get our comments back to you and appreciate the
good presentation in a short amount of time.
Rountree: Way to be concise.
Wardle: Council, with that that brings us to end of our agenda and I would
entertain a motion to adjourn.
Rountree: So moved.
Bird: Second.
Wardle: It's been moved and seconded to adjourn. All in favor?
ALL AYES. MOTION CARRIED.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 6:58 P.M.
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
APPROV
ATTESTE .