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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2005 04-05 Pre Meridian City Pre-Council Meetina ADril 5. 2005 The Meridian City Pre-Council meeting was called to order at 5:30 P.M. on Tuesday, April 5,.2005 by Mayor Tammy de Weerd. Members Present: Keith Bird, Shaun Wardle, Christine Donnell and Charlie Rountree. Members Absent: Mayor Tammy De Weerd. Staff Present: Doug Strong, Brad Hawkins-Clark and Will Berg. Item 1. Roll-call Attendance: Rollcall. X Shaun Wardle X Christine Donnell X Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird ~ Mayor Tammy de Weerd Item 2. Adoption of the Agenda: Bird: Mr. President. Wardle; Mr. Bird. Bird: I move we adopt the agenda as published. Donnell: Second. Wardle; It's been moved and seconded. All those in favor say aye. ALL AYES. MOTION CARRIED. Item 3. Discussion of Assignment of Golf Course Lease with Presentation by the Proposed New Operator: Oas; Thank you very much for inviting us to speak with you tonight. Just by way of introduction, this is Dick Davis and I am Eric Oas and we are very, very excited to announce to you the work that we are doing on obtaining the new lease for the City Golf Course. So, Dick with that, why don't you take it away. Davis: Thank you, honorable Councilmen, men and women here. We have been working for probably three or four months with the City Council, with the present lease holders to try and acquire the, what is now called Cherry Lane Golf Course. First of all, we are proposing a new name for this. This has to be approved by the City Council. We are going to call it Lake View Golf Course, if Meridian city Pre-Council Meeting April 5, 2005 Page 2 of 20 adopted. That just came to us one day we were out there measuring rooms and stuff for remodeling and we looked out and saw that beautiful lake outside the clubhouse and I think that would just be a great name for the Golf Course. Why change the name? We are new and we would like a new name for the Golf Course. We are going to maybe have a little different style of management than has been in the past and we are really planning on converting this golf course into an asset that the city and all the residents of the city will be proud of. We think we can do it and we are anxious to get started on that task. There has been a little connotation of maybe not the highest quality golf course in the state and so we would like a new name to have a new beginning out there at the golf course. Oas: Just by way of speaking whom the new leaseholder is, I would like to introduce that the leaseholder is actually Lake View Meridian Investors and Lake View Meridian Investors is made up of the following individuals. First and foremost, Dick Davis who as you know or most of you know and those of you who don't, he is the former owner of the Boise Ranch Golf Course and Dick has just recently - well he has owned and operated the Boise Ranch Golf Course for the past 12 years. This golf course has a course that Dick and his team took from being a very mediocre facility and made it into a very well maintained and pleasing place to play. Dick is - he, I think, for most of you who know Dick he is a very warm and pretty decent guy to get along with. I think he has really created - what I think - Dick described to me once as being more of a family atmosphere from all of the folks that go and play and enjoy the Boise Ranch. Dick and his team just recently sold the Boise Ranch to another group and Dick is very ready, willing and able for this new challenge. With regard to our part of this process, I am Eric Oas, obviously, with Oas Laney. We are a commercial real estate developer, residential and commercial here in the Valley. We have been involved in the projects in this area that we have been involved in is Generations Plaza. This was a predecessor company to the company that my partner, Steve Laney and I have now. Steve was very active in the whole design and bringing that whole development together into downtown Meridian. The Double D's store, we are in the process of working with Dick and his team to. relocate the, as most of you know, out to the site on the corner of Victory and Meridian Road. What we plan to do is introduce a new office building into the site where it currently is located near the railroad tracks and then the other project that we are involved with here in the Meridian areas, we have a residential project going on the corner of Locust Grove and Victory. We are also involved in developments in the Boise area as well as in Nampa, but we love the Treasure Valley and this is where our home is and this is where we intend to stay. The other investors that we plan to involve are - because this will be an LLC leaseholder, we will be presenting this opportunity unrelated other investors who haven't expressed an interest in investing in this company. Dick? Davis: Okay. How do we complete the transaction? Well, first of all - (inaudible) got there, I am trying to schedule a meeting with the Men's Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting April 5, 2005 Page 3 of 20 Association Officer's for Thursday night and one thing I really want to see is a strong and active Men's and Women's Association and league out there. I think it's good for the members, it's good for the golf course and it's a lot of fun. That's one thing we have done at Boise Ranch is really had an active Men's and Women's Association, so I am going to try and change the pessimism into optimism and get people out to play golf on Men's league night and the women typically play during the day - we are going to look maybe not this year, but starting an evening women's league, but for the ladies that are working, but also participate in ladies. One thing we have done at Boise Ranch is we build our men's league up this last year at our Men's Association meeting was the first night they could sign up for men's league. We limited it to 120 people because that's what fills up the golf course and it took us less than an hour to sign up 120 people and that's what I want to see happening out here at Cherry Lane is lots of participation and lots of people having a good time. We have already signed a purchase agreement with Cherry Lane Recreation, Inc., well I guess we have verbally agreed to all the terms - we haven't signed the agreement yet, but we are shooting at closing this deal around the 201/1 of this month. We are interviewing people. I have talked to pretty well all the employees there. We want to keep all the personnel that is there now. They are all good people and they know what they are doing and that's what I need is somebody to help me along. We are looking at maybe hiring a new additional superintendent type person. I am going to talk to Tom Funkhauser about maybe being the irrigation superintendent because I really want to green up all the areas that aren't green and full of weeds and I think it's going to take one guy just pretty well full time too because we have got to do a lot of hand watering this year. . We are going to start on the irrigation system, but for this year it's going to take a lot of hand watering and that is going to be a person that - it's going to be pretty much full time and Tom understands that irrigation system and he is a great guy and so I am going to and I haven't yet, but I wanted to meet with him today, but it didn't work out. I am going to try and meet with him tomorrow and see if something like that will work for him, but anyway, we have got to negotiate the terms of maintenance standard with the City of Meridian. Ted and I met this morning and we went over the guidelines for maintenance there. This is something that you as residents really need because we are partners with the city and we are taking care of their asset, so we need some guidelines and so that we get a decent report card. They have got to come and look at that thing and they will hear from the residents, but we want to provide a very, very nice facility for people to play on and the whole rules and regulations that we have to live by as leasees and Ted and I are working on that right now. One of the first things that we want to do is build a new maintenance facility. The maintenance facility has been over at Nita's house and she sold her property, so we are desperately in need of a maintenance facility and we are going to get it built before we run out of time on her facility. So, we are going parking equipment outside. It's the only place to park it. We may look at a temporary - some type of a temporary tent or something to put stuff under, depending on how the construction is going on the maintenance facility, but we want to build a 4,500 to 6,000 square foot Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting April 5, 2005 Page 4 of 20 maintenance facility that we can store our equipment in and repair equipment as needed. . As we go along, you know that's the closing is the 20th of April and the final approval of course with the lease and the City of Meridian would take place on 4126. We assume we are going to take over and I think we have agreed with these ladies and gentlemen that we want to be partners with each other and so I think that's pretty well a done deal. Okay, changes. Of course the name. The name will be changed. We are also going to offer maybe a unique thing, it's not going to be a country club, so don't get that idea when I say memberships. It's a public golf course, but we are going to offer memberships to people and we haven't worked out all the particulars of these. It might be a five-year membership that they pay for and they get reduced fees, they will get some bennies in the clubhouse. We are going to offer social memberships to people that don't play golf because we plan on expanding the bar and restaurant and making that a fun, good place to go eat and have a drink with your friends. We will be offering some memberships along those lines. We aren't going to refuse service to anybody, you know, that wants to play golf. That isn't what the memberships is about, it's just if people want to buy a five year deal, they are going to save a little money and get some extra bids, like maybe preferred (inaudible) or something along that line. We haven't worked all that out yet, but as we go along we will work with the city and do that. I have already mentioned the maintenance facility that we are proposing and the public hearing notice on that is the 19th of this month, so we need all the support we can get on that. Our plan is to basically do three holes really, really, concentrate on three holes a year. That don't mean we are going to let the other (inaudible --) but we have got a long-range plan. The irrigation needs a lot of work on it and so we have worked out a deal with the city that we are going to try and identify three holes a year, but we may be rebuilding some greens, definitely upgrading fairways, we probably will have a tree planting project with the homeowners if they want to plant a tree out in front of their yard they can work with us on where to locate those things. We will take care of it. We just need it located so that the sprinklers don't miss the grass behind it and so that we can get our lawnmowers around it and everything like that. So, anyway, three holes a year. We are going to extend the bar and restaurant like I said to have some nice dinners out there. We can have Christmas parties for organizations and we are going to name the bar Bogies. You know any golfer knows what a bogie is. But also you can sit there and you can look at Bogus Basin from the bar and it's really a beautiful sight where we plan to build the bar. You can look out at the lake and see Bogus Basin and so Bogie kind of goes with the golf industry and also one of the amenities that we have there. This is something that we have really been begging for from the City Council as we would really like an off-premise sign and we are thinking on Cherry Lane because the golf course is kind of back there in the middle and nobody sees it and we would like a sign out there, you know some place that we can take care of a little area and have a nice sign that you know that maybe we have a special on hamburgers this day or you know, steak dinners on Friday night or something like that that we can advertise to the people that are going up and down the road because if we put it on the golf course, Meridian City pre-Council Meeting April 5, 2005 Page 5 of 20 nobody is going to see it but the golfers. But, we are working with the city to try and secure a place to put a nice sign. Oas; Dick, you might talk about the success you had at Boise Ranch with events like this and with your signage. Davis: Yeah, we put up - I actually just took over managing at Boise Ranch solely about three and half or four years ago and one of the first things I did was put in a big sign on the road there and you can't believe the people that - my favorite special was the burger in a bucket for $7.50. In other words they get a bucket of balls and a hamburger for $7.50 and it's a great lunch deal for people, but if they don't know about, if we don't have any way of advertising it, why it just don't work and so anyway, those are good. The tennis court thing was something that was brought up to us and I see no problem - we are planning on putting the maintenance facility to the south of the dubhouse, there is just a big lot of weeds there and it grows up to be weeds and it looks to be horrible. We think that a nice maintenance facility with some asphalt around it and no weeds which would actually add to the appearance of the place and then we can put some tennis courts on this end or we can put some tennis courts on the north end, the north side of the dubhouse. This is something that the city mentioned to us and it would just be more recreation for Meridian residents and I see no problem with that and we plan to listen. We are planning right after we take over of having and I am thinking four nights of homeowners and I believe we have got the addresses on everybody on the course? Is that not right? So, we will be mailing out a mailer to have a bull session, but I think we need to divide it up into four nights because I don't think we can get everybody in the room if we have it one night and so we are going to do it by house numbers and we want to just sit and listen to see what the residents want, you know, the people that live around the golf course and the people in the City of Meridian, we want to listen. We can't do everything, you know. We got to run the thing so that it makes money for us or we wouldn't be doing this, but we want to make it as congenial as it can be to all the people. I already mentioned the adopt a tree program. Oas: I think, Dick, that sort of concludes the formal part of the presentation, we are certainly open to any questions that City Council has. Wardle: Thank you very much. One of the points of clarification that I just want to make about this process is the fact that the partnership, Lake View Golf Course partnership and the LLC is purchasing. assets from Cherry Lane recreation. The discussion we are having tonight is about the city assigning the current lease that we have with Cherry Lane Recreation to a new tenant. The one thing that the city is exercising in that lease option is an adoption of a new set of standards and so in just a minute I am going to turn the conversation over to the standards, but in the back of the room on the table is a set of standards that everyone can have a copy of and we will take comments on them in just a minute, but I am going to have our Deputy City Attorney, Ted Baird, who has Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting AprilS, 2005 Page 6 of 20 been working very diligently and thank you very much Ted and have him discuss the standards and part of that negotiation. Baird; Thank you Council member Wardle and members of the Council. As we went through the process of discussing the city's expectations with the potential new operator, one of the problems that we did identify with the existing agreement was the total lack of teeth in the maintenance standards. The current language just merely refers to maintenance at the level of similar municipal golf courses in the area. So, what we thought we would do is since the city has the opportunity to approve a new - an assumption of the lease that we would take the opportunity to add some additional maintenance terms. I do have a two page handout that's in the back of the room if anybody wants to - if you haven't already picked it up you can pick it up on the way out, but what we attempted to do is set forth a specific standard, our basic aesthetics expectations as well as break it down to the individual maintenance obligations. The second page goes through the number of mowings on various parts of the course per week; how often items should be watered, fertilized, air rated, groomed, how various aspects of the facility should be cleaned, serviced and checked. So, we put specific numerical standards in there that if the public or the City Councilor anyone feels that the quality of the maintenance is not up to par, we can go out and monitor it and invoke some of the other remedies that will be in the lease agreement and we have every expectation that these people who will be operating have every intent to improve the facility in the way that they have presented it today, but what we are also looking at is into the future for the next City Council and the next set of residents in the neighborhood as people forget the promises that were made today that we have got a document that's in writing that will be survived for the future and like I say, we tried to break it down into specific standards. I will stand for questions at this point. Wardle: Thank you, Ted and I just - Dick if you could answer this just in the general question we have had this as part of our discussions, but what sort of dollar figure do you feel have you budgeted to make these improvements, albeit over the course of time, but we are talking a pretty large dollar figure. Davis; Yes, we are talking well in excess of $2 million. Baird: Councilman Wardle if I could add that that was one of other ambiguities in the current agreement is that it was unclear as to who would be paying and in the new agreement we make it clear that the maintenance and the physical improvements will be at no expense to the city or the tax payers that the operators is taking on that full obligation. Wardle; Mr. Bird. Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting April 5, 2005 Page 7 of 20 Bird: Yes, Dick, you know we have quite a few people on the back nine that want to put up a membership and it was called a lifetime membership or something. Are you going to continue to honor that? Davis: When they built the back nine? Bird: Yeah, they donated money and stuff and then in return or they bought- Rountree: John can tell you. Bird: Yeah, John Ewing is the one of - Davis: Well, I don't want John out there - Bird: But, there are some other nicer guys that do - but there was, I think, Mr. Berg is about the only one that was sitting up here that was familiar with that In fact I think his family bought one of those. Are we - Berg: It was by both parties. Council President Wardle if I could just add a couple of things. The return on investment of money or in kind donations was some kind of membership pass for and I don't remember how many years, if it was ten years or fifteen years or something of that nature to get that back nine improved. John Ewing was one of them that was given some of that in kind donation as well as people that gave monetary and I don't remember the length of time, but both the city and the Cherry Lane Recreation signed off on giving that to them. Of course, the indebtedness is when you go out there to play golf the city isn't the operator at the time, so it is the Cherry Lane Golf course that really pays for the use of that pass and I don't remember how many passes were given out, it depended on how much money or in kind donation there was. Davis: We would certainly look at that Keith and yeah, I don't know what it would entail, but I did hear that John and Terry got one- (Inaudible speaker and discussion) Davis: We could have a father son out there - Speaker?: I believe the agreement though was made by the City of Meridian, not - so whatever you work out is fine, I certainly didn't come to claim that out. That is fine, but I think the agreement was not made you know with (inaudible) the City of Meridian and again, I don't truthfully know if anybody that I just named there that (inaudible--). I shouldn't say they don't (inaudible ---) that is something that if it becomes an issue we could certainly be worked out on my part, I can't speak for the other ones, but I don't think the other ones probably don't even know (inaudible-). Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting April 5, 2005 Page 8 of 20 Davis: John and I and Terry Cook from Cloverdale and the people from Nampa Paving we have a father son golf tournament every year, so that's why I was joking about the father son golf tournament. Wardle: One of the things that I would just like to point to is the process that we are going through. This is the first and we are going to take some public testimony in just a minute - this is the first kind of announcement - Friday's paper and the Mayor's State of the City Address was probably the first time that anyone had heard some of these negotiations were going on and so this is the first opportunity for the new operator to present this. They have got some due diligence that obviously they are doing with the current tenant and what will happen is we will bring this forward April 26th, I am working with the Clerk's Office, but at 6:30 P.M. in a Pre-Council setting here for some official action from the City Council. So, what we will be asking this evening for direction for the Council to proceed forward to the 26th, we will still be taking and will have opportunity for people to comment from now until then. Is that your understanding, Ted? Baird: That is correct. Wardle; I would like to invite - thank you very much Dick for your presentation and Eric and if we have some questions after if anyone would like we will bring you back up, but I would like to open the floor to anyone that has a comment, a question, anything specific to the standards we would welcome at this time. Gordon? Marguiluex: Gordon Marguiluex, 2040 Interlochen Way in Meridian, Idaho. We live within earshot of the clubhouse and so there is a couple of things that I wanted to just sort of ask and certainly appreciate the work done to try and improve the golf course and Dick seems to be a real nice guy. I haven't met him for a long - but there are a couple things. One is a couple of months ago we were talking about problems with people on the golf course - when it changed the trespassing law and I guess that was sort of put on hold, but it's still an issue because we see people on the golf course, kids particulary walking across and there doesn't seem to be anything done about that. I would like to see what Dick has in mind to do that because I am sure he doesn't want kids getting hit by golf balls also. I don't agree that there should be a trespassing ordinance, but we need to have something that targets them, but I think we do need to address that because it is a safety issue. As to and I want to make sure that what the Council is presenting is that we have the same lease, but we have an addendum to that for the maintenance and is any funds at all going to occur for the city? Of my understanding there isn't other than maintenance - just the legal stuff of getting it finalized? Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting April 5, 2005 Page 9 of 20 Wardle: At this time, that's what we are talking about and all that the operator - well, I'll let Dick address some of your concerns as soon as you are done, if that's okay with you Gordon? Marguiluex: Yeah. One of the reasons I ask that. is that I also remember it wasn't too long ago that the city came up with an agreement with Cherry Lane to share equipment and they were going to - the city was apparently going to buy the equipment and Cherry Lane was going to maintain it or something along that line. This was something that was probably about nine months ago that the city was going to - have gone into an agreement with the golf course and this was again out of the Statesman where they were going to sort of jointly own some equipment and maintain it. Are there fuel tanks that are going to be on the site near the maintenance shed? The reason why is that I looked at that sheet of paper that talked about and it's right next to, in fact, the corner that we are talking about is a corner that has open irrigation ditches. So, there is ditches on two sides of where the shed is going to be and the question is is there any environmental safety stuff that needs to be addressed for that? They are going to be storing pesticides in there. My understanding is it's supposed to be very similar to the shed that is at the golf course right now on Cloverdale, which has I believe a gravel floor or concrete? Concrete, okay, so we need to figure out if that's a safety issue there. Between the time when the old storage area goes and the new one - they mentioned about a tent - does it need to have any approval for that tent? Especially sense that is going to be visible to the homeowners that are just probably fifty feet away. Another question and I am sure this will be brought up at the meeting where we talk about the shed. How tall is the shed? Because it's another issue. There will be people who won't be able to see Bogus Basin because there will be a new shed up there and will there by any barriers? Will they be planting trees? Will they be doing something around it to block the view of that? I don't envision seeing the shed, but other people in the neighborhood had mentioned that. One that concerns me is the thought of creating a bar that is dose to a school and also in the area that is not surrounded by berms, the original tent, I believe, when they put in the dubhouse was that they weren't going to have a bar there and thanks to the City Council on the February 8111 they approved the clubhouse to be open 24 hours a day, they made an exception in the noise ordinance that allowed them. The noise ordinance that was approved and should be amended gave an exception sound clause by activities upon any outdoor municipality, which is the golf course, school, religious or publidy owned property, the golf course or provides that such activities authorized by the owner of the property, Dick over here, or facilities of it's agents. So, if he decides he wants to have an all night party according to the ordinance that is an exception and the exception says that they can have anything between eleven at night and six in the morning. That is pretty much, basically, 24 hours a day. I suggest that they amend it to say that any privately owned facilities on public property has to adhere to the - instead of just saying anything on a public owned land. Let's see what else. The time limit for the Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting April 5, 2005 Page 10 of 20 lease, is it going to be extended or is it just - you know because it has like 25 more years on it? Is it going to be extended? Donnell: I think that's part of the negotiations. Wardle; Yes, and I believe. Do you want me to address your concerns one at a time or just that one specifically? Bird: Mr. President. Wardle; Mr. Bird. Bird: Let Ted address the noise thing that he is spouting off about. Wardle: Okay, if we can back up and address the noise ordinance again real quick with our city staff. Ted? Baird: Are we done with the lists? Marguiluex; Oh, no, but I will try and keep it short. If you want to address the noise ordinance, I am just reading it - Baird: If I could start out just by saying we are here to talk about the new operation of the golf course and the assumption of the lease. However, I think that your concerns can be addressed in the document that we are creating that sets forth the new terms upon which the lease will be assumed. The trespass and the safety issue are totally separate from the operation of the golf course and I encourage you to continue to work with the city on your concerns on that. I am going to set that aside as not being relevant to the discussion tonight. However, with the noise and the noise ordinance, the way that the current ordinance is drafted, it talks about activity allowed by the owner of the facility. The city is the owner of the golf course in general and what we intend to do is set specific hours of operation when we sign off on the assumption of the lease. So, if you have concerns about particular hours, I encourage you to put that on the record that your wishes by known. Marguiluex: So be it. That is why I am bringing these up. Certainly my understanding was that we had the old lease with an amendment attached to it and the amendment was basically the maintenance. So, the thing that you were talking about setting different hours or setting extended leases, those are additional pieces that we are taking - Baird: We are taking the opportunity that any ambiguity that currently exists, we are taking this opportunity to fix it within the confines within the terms of the existing lease. So, they are just basically add-ons like you characterized. If I could address the other legal issues very briefly. With regard to any storage and Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting April 5, 2005 Page 11 of20 use of chemicals and other environmental conditions, we have got a provision in there that they have agreed to handle it according to all relevant standards and that they are also indemnifying their carrying insurance and indemnifying the city for any spills that may occur or any mishandling, so we have thought about that and we have covered that. They have agreed to comply with any applicable regulation with regards to the maintenance shed and if there is any requirement with the temporary structure I am sure that they will comply with that. Perhaps our Planning and Zoning staff could comment on that as well. Those were the legal issues that I noted, perhaps at this time, Mr. Wardle- Wardle: Let me just an opportunity - for the maintenance facility there will be a separate hearing before this body on the 1911> and we haven't seen the plans for the facility and so - Marguiluex: And neither have I, but they are available. Wardle: Yes, by the 19th for the operator. Your question to the extension of the lease, I believe the operator is asking for an extension and will be asking for that. I'll let them address a specific timeframe if you'd like to do that now or if you have a couple more comments you can make those. Marguiluex: Well (inaudible-). So, what is the extension? Wardle: I believe they are asking to extend it to a thirty-year term. Marguiluex: So, before 1 forget - so thirty more years or -? Wardle: Twenty-seven, I believe if that's correct and extending that an additional three years. Baird: Those issues are still under negotiations. The request from the operator and I don't want to speak for them and I will let them address this, but it has to do with their ability to seek financing for the infrastructure improvements that they are committing to and that's the only reason we are reopening that term of negotiations. Marguiluex: Because they are the additional things besides the maintenance that's going to be at the addendum, when will that be available for viewing from the public standpoint? Baird: Mr. Wardle. The lease will be on the agenda for the meeting on the 26th and that will be released to the public pursuant to the general release of the agenda that will be available on the Clerk's website when the Clerk posts the agenda for that particular meeting for Friday. Donnell: The Friday before. Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting April 5, 2005 Page 12 of 20 Marguiluex: The Friday before? Yeah, I didn't know if there was some timeframe that if you were voting or something that you had to have it available to the public. Wardle: It'll be available during public hearing, but the Clerk will have it on the website typically they post it Friday on or about five o'clock and if you would like to talk with Will he can get you the site that you can actually go to and see if it's there. Marguiluex: It's under golf course documents? Wardle: It will actually be under probably the City Council. You go to meetings, go to City Council and then under that agendas. Marguiluex; And why we are at it is it possible to get the slides that were presented on the website, too, under the golf course document files? Wardle: We will ask the operator if they would like that and if - Marguiluex: I think other people would be interested in that. So, I think - with the changes in the lease, is it possible right now because the city receives very little funds from the golf course, in fact, it seems to me that they put in more than they get back. For many years we would get one dollar. I think we are up to like $600 now or $6,000. In Nampa and this has been brought up many times. In Nampa they have a rec center that they built with funds that came back partially from the golf course agreement they had there. I understand that Mr. Davis and his associates are putting in a lot of expense into this golf course. I really appreciate it because it needs it. Maybe we can cut them some slack in the very beginning, but once that six years is over with, whether they hit every hole and is - since we are re-negotiating a contract this seems like it's a pretty good re- negotiation - that we change that maybe we change that maybe 1 o percent what they have in Centennial to be able to do that so that we can start using these funds to make more parks because Meridian is getting bigger - to do other things with that. Maybe not a rec center, but maybe something that we could use those funds to better use than to - $6,000 doesn't seem like very much. Bird: Yes, sir, I would like you to tell me all the money that the city has put into it, since 1978. Marguiluex: Well, I have got to say that they are not always - they get paid back. You know I remember a few years back when they were given to other nine holes that the city loaned the golf course out of the sewer fund. I think it was $300,000 and they did get that money back, not from the golf course, they got it back from impact fees, but they did get that back. I remember also a couple of years later, they were talking to the patrons saying we need to increase our Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting April 5, 2005 Page 13 of 20 sewer fee because we our funds are getting kind of low. I am just saying that $6,000 on a golf course lease a year doesn't seem to be bringing back - maybe you can explain to me how a golf course that is rated the worst - that's why I appreciate Mr. Davis's effort to improve this here - the worst golf course in the Valley and how I can go out on the golf course or look over the fence because I don't want to - or get hit by a golf ball. I can look out over the fence and see very few people playing on the golf course. When I talk to people who golf they say I don't play because it's just ugly and why that's a benefit to Meridian. Why Meridian could even look the citizens in the face and say that's our golf course. I mean that's why I am happy to see someone willing to take that and improve it and I am willing to cut them some slack, but $6,000 doesn't seem like a whole lot. What did you do with $6,000 that you got from the golf course last year. Maybe you can answer that. Bird: It went into the Parks general fund and I am sure they - Marguiluex: (Inaudible ---) Bird; You are comparing it to Nampa to Ridgecrest and Centennial and they are altogether different. The City of Nampa built those. They should have the returns on them. The Lovan family put all the money into to the course. The city never put any into it until the expansion was done and that was off of impact fees, which has also bought the other Parks we have got around here. That's what impact fees are for. It's for the public deal. These gentlemen are willing to put in a couple of million dollars to improve it. Cherry Lane Golf Course will never be a Centennial, nor will it ever be a Ridgecrest. I don't care if Dick makes it a PGA's standard golf course - the location and the tightness of it does not allow the average the poor golfer like me to score very good, so if we get a chance we are going to go to Centennial where it is wide open. (Tape turned over) Wardle; If there is anyone else that would like some availability or ask the operator to respond we have got just a couple of minutes. Marguiluex: Sorry that it's taking so long, so one of the things that we lacked on the old agreement are consequences for not performing to keep the golf course up. This current agreement does not have consequences in it. It doesn't say what happens if they don't do what they are supposed to do because it doesn't talk about defaults. Also, is there levels because this here agreement right now, back on the - doesn't say - it just says you will maintain some GPA or USGA standards, but is there different levels of standards? Because right now that was the problem that we had with the old lease. There was nothing to determine how we evaluate standards. Is there a level one, level two, level three? Can we say we want this to be this particular level of standard? These are just questions. Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting April 5, 2005 Page 14 of 20 Wardle: And if you will give us just a moment, we will take some more input and then I will have the operator and our staff address those specific standards. Marguiluex: I was just wondering on the back here and the schedule and where it came from. Is this a USGA or is this just a list of activity? I am kind of concerned because if they come up with a better way of maintaining the golf course, I don't want to limit them to what's on the backyard. I would rather just say you have this standard, this is how you evaluate it and go with that instead of trying to tell them when to mow the lawn. Bird: Sir, they are businessmen. If it's the improvement and it draws more money for them, they are going to do it, whether that standard is says it or not. Marguiluex: And I certainly hope so. I appreciate your time. Thank you very much. Wardle: Thank you for your comments. Is there anyone else that would like to comment before we bring up the operator and then have Ted maybe address those specific standards? Myers: My name is Burt Meyers, 3540 West Woodmont, Meridian. Among other things I am president of the Cherry Lane 3, 4 and 5 Homeowner's Association, who are very involved with the golf course. I have listened to this for a long time about this lease thing and those of you that weren't here when this thing was put together, which I was, there was nobody that wanted that golf course. Mayor Storey at the time says the city doesn't want a golf course. The developer says well we will give it to you, but nobody wanted to take it. We tried to find people that wanted it and nobody wanted it. (Inaudible) comes forward and says okay, here is what I will do and he did. Now, I have to say that I am not a lawyer, thank goodness, but from what I understand from talking to some of these guys is that lease was probably not drawn up the best it could have been, but at that time it was the best that we could come up with and it worked and times change. The golf course changed, the people changed, the subdivision changed. All those houses came in there and as Keith says it's pretty dang tight right now. It wasn't so tight then because it wasn't houses then but they still had the out of bounds and things just started going down hill from the developer because he went belly up after he built the first nine, he was supposed to get the other nine in and he didn't come back to do that and that's why it took so long to get it in and finally Mayor Kingsford got this idea that he could get these funds borrowed and get people to donate stuff like the contractor guy over here with a big piece of equipment sitting around and said yeah we could go do that and they got it done and I am going to tell you it probably isn't the best in the world, but it got done. The big thing they have a problem with is they have been talking about is the irrigation system. That was never done right in the first place, but we didn't know that. The developer said here it is and you don't look a pig in the poke, I guess or whatever, but anyway the one question that I have is are you going to keep Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting April 5, 2005 Page 15 of 20 the season ticket holders and are you going to honor this year? That was most important. Bird; I have a question for Mr. Meyers. Burt, do you know of any time on those irrigation systems that the city put any money into that old original nine that Wally - I mean, Wally put every penny that went into that thing after the bankruptcy - I mean, am I not right? Meyers: That's right. The city never put a nickel into it. Wardle: Is there anyone else that would like to come forward? Mr. Davis, Mr. Oas if you would like to address some of those specifically. I think Burt had a specific question for you. Davis: There was one that we weren't going to renew. Now all season passes are going to be honored, all pro-shop credits are going to be honored and if you have got some pro-shop credits from the tournament or something, those will all be honored. So, don't worry about that. Passes are all honored. Okay, now let's see - the terms of the lease, what we have asked for is we are investing $2.5 million dollars in this thing and that's a substantial amount of money even to a guy like John Ewing and you know we are business people like he said. We need some return on our investment and we are willing to take this thing and run with it and make a jewel out of it and yes there are - we have all of these parameters that we have to live by and Ted and I and another documenter - there are some hand slapping things if we don't get - we can get our lease jerked from us if we don't maintain it properly, so there is some teeth in the total agreement on this thing. We are asking for a 3D-year lease, with a 3D-year renewal for us to be able to get our money back out of it. We haven't got it, but that's what we are asking for. So, there are plenty of standards. As far as the height of the building, the building is 15 feet tall, the maintenance facilities that we are proposing. A golf course has to have a maintenance facility that you can use. Where you put it, is up in the air, but if you don't have some place to put your equipment and take care of it (inaudible). So, I don't think the residents would like us repairing under a shade tree, which is what we are going to have to do for a couple of months, but anyway, I can't think of anything else. Eric do you have anything to add to that? Oas; The only other item is that we would be more than happy to make our slides available if anyone would like a copy, there is nothing confidential in this. I guess the only other point that I would make to Council and everyone is that although (inaudible) 30 year lease and the extension is critically important and it's critically important because it gives us as Dick pointed out it gives us and the investors who are investing money in (inaudible---) our dollars will go farther. It gives them an opportunity to get a return. (Inaudible---) then we are obviously are not going to be able to attract investors that we need to have. (Inaudible- ~ ). Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting April 5, 2005 page 16 of 20 Davis: Well, you know and I might add in our budget we are losing a ton of money the first two years beceuse there is no play, but we are going to put on a full maintenance staff. I budgeted the same maintenance staff that we have at Boise Ranch, where we get 42,000 rounds a year. So, the same maintenance staff is budgeted for this. We have got repairs to do. We are going to lose a ton of money for a couple of years out there just to get this thing going right. (Speaker unknown): (Inaudible-- ). Davis: They are probably going to go up a little bit. We are not going to go crazy with this because like he said we are business people. You know you can't price it more than the market will bear, but we are immediately going to do some improvements there so the green fees probably will change. Oas: Anyone who would like to have copies of the slides please, let me know, give me the name - we have a couple copies here, but we would be more than happy to get more. Wardle: Thank you very much. Any other comments from Council? I would encourage anyone who would like to contact the city, certainly can contact me direct and if you would like to stick around for just a moment, I believe that Eric and Dick would give some contact information for y.ou as well. The public hearing on the maintenance facility is again on the 19'" and then I am hopefully going to entertain a motion in just a minute to move to the 26th and have all those documents available for potential decision by the Council. With that, Council, do I hear a motion to- Bird: Mr. President. Wardle: Mr. Bird. Bird: I move that we bring back on April 26, 2005, the negotiated contract with the new leasing of the Meridian golf course. Donnell: Second. Wardle: Thank you very much. We have motioned and seconded and I will take a roll call vote, Mr. Clerk. Roll Call Vote: Bird, aye; Donnell, aye; Rountree, aye; Wardle, aye. All ayes. ALL AYES. MOTION CARRIED. Rountree: Mr. President. Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting April 5, 2005 Page 17 of 20 Wardle: Mr. Rountree. Rountree: I guess the final comment on my part is one I appreciate the gentlemen stepping up and moving forward on the golf course, but now that everybody is milling around I wanted to express my gratitude to the Council President for taking this ball that I tossed in his direction about a little over a year ago and a job well done. Thank you Shaun. Wardle: Mr. Berg. Berg: Thank you Mr. President. I direct this to Ted a little bit, but we did have a conditional use on the clubhouse when that was negotiated and built and there is some conditions put on that clubhouse for operation time and things of that nature and we will get that information to you, so you can review that because there are conditions that were put in because there was a residential area and it's expected to have a bar and restaurant in that clubhouse. Donnell: Thank you Clerk Berg. Item 4. Communities in Motion Presentation by Brad Hawkins-Clark: Hawkins-Clark: Well, it's not mine, so if I could just pass out a couple of handouts. If I could just have one minute to set up the slide here, please. Wardle: That's fine. Thanks Brad. Let's just take a quick five-minute recess. Recess. Wardle: I would like to bring us back to order. Again, Item No.4, Brad Hawkins- Clark Communities in Motion. Hawkins-Clark: Sorry about that. So, this ten-minute talk which was supposed to be 20, which was originally intended to be half an hour or 30. I guess maybe I need a little direction. How much would you - do you already understand? This arrangement between the Communities in Motion process and the blueprint for good growth. You are familiar with it and the relationship between the two? Rountree: I don't know anything about it. Hawkins-Clark: Well, you can just put deaf ears on. Why don't I hit about five slides in this handout here. One of the things that we are trying to do just now is to get DVD hooked up as well as this PowerPoint overhead, but there is a video that COMPASS has just recently had available to them that we will certainly make it available to the Council to see, but it's an 11 minute summation basically of these public workshops that initiated this process. I saw just a little bit of it, it looks very good. It's a good summary, so we will get that to you so you can Meridian City Pre-councU Meeting April 5, 2005 Page 18 of 20 watch those on your own, but I think a couple of points to make on these two processes the why in terms of what's driving this whole process is on the second page there and largely the projection of population going from approximately 500,000 a day to 920,000. Employment increasing basically almost double. The Communities in Motion, of course, is a process that's largely transportation oriented, the Blueprint for good growth largely land use oriented. Elements of each are woven into those. As you know we have got a couple of scenarios, this is scenario planning that are sort of been the focus up to this point in the process and on page 5 at the handout on the top there the slide kind of highlights the difference between these two. (Inaudible) scenario is important to both of these processes. The Blueprint for good growth is going to focus on the tools to implement that and then the transportation of course is Communities in Motion. I think maybe what would be most helpful at this point is that you know that coming up on the 18th COMPASS Board is going to have on their agenda whether or not they decided, I guess, is a little bit up in the air right now, but a decision on the preferred scenario. It has been boiled down to two and both of those scenarios are kind of broken out in this hand out and again we have got all kinds of background and data on them, but they start on page 12 of the handout in terms of telling you what the difference is between this mixed use corridor and the blended and in the most simplistic terms possible, the mixed use corridor is saying we want the growth to be largely oriented around our state highways and some of our principal arterials - State Highway 44, Chinden, 20/26, Union Pacific, 1-84 and let's put a lot of growth in those areas. It involves more infill than the other scenario and it is going to require more multi-family housing in the future. The other scenario is a little bit more focused on the areas of city impact, not quite so dense, not quite so much focus on multi-family housing. Again, this is very simplistic, but the other thing to keep in mind is that we probably not just choosing these two scenarios. Ideally, we will come up with yet another one that will be as Trish Neilson mentioned today that the plan ultimately is what we are striving for here. The scenarios are trying to say it a simple way, here's kind of the principles of each. I think the comments that this group is looking for and that it will be decided by COMPASS on April 18th, what the preferred scenario will be is largely are you in support of this mixed-use corridor that has a more equal housing mix or are you more inclined to this blended scenario which also is quite a different growth pattern than what this Valley has had to date. I think both will bring challenges and a lot of opportunity for us, but there are key elements of both. If you have studied them at all and the maps are in this handout, you will see that actually north Meridian and Meridian in general is pretty under populated. They recognize that so you probably don't need to spend too much time commenting on that because I think everyone recognizes that the numbers so far have shown that to be pretty under populated given the platting that we have seen in the city. So, I think some of that is going to be tweaked, but on a broader scale do you think that the region as a whole can have those growth patterns, one or the other and I think giving comments to the Mayor before the 18th would be good while also on Monday a week from yesterday, we are going to be focusing on these so if you could take just a few minutes and call us at the Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting April 5, 2005 Page 19 of 20 P&Z Department or email us or whatever and say if you have concerns that you want us to bring up Monday with the consultants, we are going to be focusing in on a little bit more on just Meridian. So far this is a sixth county project, the Communities in Motion is and we are going to try and focus a little bit more on what is the background to the Meridian growth and so we can bring your concerns to that meeting and then hopefully pass that on for the COMPASS Board meeting, which is going to follow a couple of days after that. There are a couple of handouts here that gives you the web address and the phone numbers of the consultants who are working on both the Communities in Motion and Blueprint for Good Growth so it's a nice easy handout and reference for you. I will hand that out and if you have got any questions, I guess that's about all the time we have got. Wardle: Council, do you have any questions for Brad at this time? Bird: I do not, Mr. President. Donnell: Mr. President. Wardle: Ms. Donnell. Donnell: Brad, did I understand you to say that - go back to your comment about Meridian being under populated. Did I hear you say that? Hawkins-Clark: Right. Donnell; Which - all of Meridian? A certain part of Meridian? Say that again to me. Hawkins-Clark: Sure. Rountree; Explain what you mean by that. I know what you mean, but I know where Christine is coming from. Hawkins-Clark: One of the things that they do or have done that the consultants have done is at these workshops they took - here's all these chips, this is the big map, this is where we think rural should go, residential - we want to protect this area, we want to preserve this area, let's put this here. What the consultants do is they kind of just took these maps that were done at 44 or 45 tables, 500 participants and started to digitize all of this information and put it into the computer and come up with general land use categories and those land use categories then get applied at least in this case for Meridian at certain densities and they came in at much lower densities - a state type densities for our north Meridian area like one dwelling unit per acre verses what we already been approved at, you know around 3 or 3 % dwelling units per acre. So, it's showing Meridian City Pre-CouncU Meeting April 5. 2005 Page 20 of 20 projected population to be less than what we even already have on the books let alone is that really what we want. So, does that help? Donnell: Yes, it does. Thank you. Hawkins-Clark: Meridian Development Corporation did have a presentation by Steve, I think, just this week and they talked a little bit more specifically about the effects of these plans on downtown. He did have some more information that focused you know kind of on that discussion, but that information is available. I just wanted to point that out. Wardle: Thank you. Anything else from Brad? Brad thank you very much for your presentation. Hawkins-Clark: Here are the forms for you. Wardle: We will be sure to get our comments back to you and appreciate the good presentation in a short amount of time. Rountree: Way to be concise. Wardle: Council, with that that brings us to end of our agenda and I would entertain a motion to adjourn. Rountree: So moved. Bird: Second. Wardle: It's been moved and seconded to adjourn. All in favor? ALL AYES. MOTION CARRIED. MEETING ADJOURNED AT 6:58 P.M. (TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS) APPROV ATTESTE .