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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2019-02-19Meridian City Council February 19, 2019. A Meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 6:03 p.m., Tuesday, February 19, 2019, by Mayor Tammy de Weerd. Members Present: Tammy De Weerd, Cavener, Ty Palmer, Genesis Milam, Anne Little Roberts and Treg Bernt. Members Absent: Joe Borton. Also present: C.Jay Coles, Bill Nary, Bill Parsons, Sonya Allen, Stephanie Leonard, Kyle Radek, Jeff Lavey, Jamie Leslie, Joe Bongiorno, and Dean Willis. Item 1: Roll-call Attendance: Roll call. X__ Anne Little Roberts _ _ _Joe Borton X__ Ty Palmer X__ Treg Bernt __X___Genesis Milam __X___Lucas Cavener __X_ Mayor Tammy de Weerd De Weerd: Thank you for your patience. Thank you for joining us here at City Council . For the record it is Tuesday, February 19th. It's a few minutes after 6:00. We will start with roll call attendance, Mr. Clerk. Item 2: Pledge of Allegiance De Weerd: Okay. Item No. 2 is the Pledge of Allegiance. If you will all rise and join us in the pledge to our flag. (Pledge of Allegiance recited.) Item 3: Community Invocation by Larry Woodard of Ten Mile Christian Church De Weerd: Item 3 is our community invocation. Tonight we will be led by Larry Woodard with Ten Mile Christian Church. Thank you, Larry, for joining us. I would invite those in attendance to join us in the community invocation or take this as an opportunity for a moment of reflection. Woodard: Our Dear Heavenly Father, as we come tonight we ask that you bless this Council. May they continue making good decisions as they have in the past decade. This year they will give their blessing to several road projects, such as widening Ten Mile and Linder and I see in the paper -- and now you're pushing a Linder overpass. They have to use their best wits and arguments to get the State Highway Commission off the dime to widen Chinden. There will be a -- there will be new schools to consider, new subdivisions, new commercial construction downtown and the list goes on. I ask that you bless them Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 10 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 2 of 84 in each of these instances and that you will bless them individually and collectively as they move the city forward. Something new for all of them will be how to manage the second largest city in Idaho. I moved here in 1993 and the city was just over 10,000 people. Today it's over a hundred thousand and continues to grow. Give this Council the wise wisdom as they guide us from 100,000 to 110,000, 120,000 and even higher. I pray tonight for our law enforcement personnel, our police and I ask you keep them safe. There is just too many examples of police shootings around the nation and we don't want it to happen in this city. Protect also our firemen, our emergency medical, and other personnel who are responsible for our welfare and safety. I ask you to -- for a special blessing on the many city employees who do their jobs daily. In closing I would like to ask that you bless our Mayor in her upcoming retirement. May she enjoy her days with the family. On behalf of many in this city today we thank her for a job well done. In Jesus' name, amen. De Weerd: Thank you, Larry. Bernt: Larry, I love your prayers. The best. Item 4: Adoption of Agenda De Weerd: Item No. 4 is adoption of the agenda. Cavener: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Cavener. Cavener: I move we adopt the agenda as published with just a note for those in attendance. Item 9-E, F and G have been requested to be continued to April 16th, 2019. Milam: Second. De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to adopt the agenda as read. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT. Item 5: Future Meeting Topics - Public Forum (Up to 30 Minutes Maximum) De Weerd: Mr. Clerk, any sign-ups under Item 5? Coles: No, Madam Mayor. Item 6: Proclamation A. SkillsUSA "Team Renaissance" Day Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 11 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 3 of 84 De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Item 6 is a proclamation and Mr. Cavener will be joining our Skills USA Team Renaissance at the podium and we have the privilege of having these young leaders come and join us at City Council and talk about areas that they will be competing in. So, after the reading of the proclamation we will ask them to introduce themselves, talk about the area that they will be competing in, where you're going to be competing and, actually, here is a great opportunity to -- to give maybe an audience that would come and watch you. That would be awesome ; right? Cavener: Thanks, Madam Mayor. I will read the proclamation and try not to butcher this too bad. Whereas the City of Meridian is proud to recognize deserving citizens of the community, especially students who accomplish great things on behalf of their community, and for a Skills USA Team Renaissance who perform numerous hours in planning and reconstructing a portable classroom with -- within one school year in West Ada School District No. 2, under the direction of the Ada Career and Technical Center where students work during class time and weekends for all deserving students and whereas Skills USA Team Renaissance has educated not only citizens of Meridian, but also the state and federal legislative officials of the importance of Skills USA and whereas Skills USA Team Renaissance has strived to finish a community center in the school year of 2018 to 2019, partnering with other students in the West Ada School District and whereas Skills USA Team Renaissance has reached out to other community organizations, such as the Lions Club, Boise State construction program and Building Construction Specifications -- Specifications Institute of Idaho and Wish Grantors of Idaho and whereas Skills USA Team Renaissance has established a partnership with Wish Grantors of Idaho who has worked with students to fulfill a family's last wish and make their life a little brighter and whereas, on behalf of the Mayor and the City Council acknowledges Skills USA Team Renaissance and the efforts of their classrooms of the West Ada Technical Center, I, on behalf of Mayor Tammy de Weerd, Mayor of the City of Meridian, do hereby proclaim February 19th, 2019, as Skills USA Team Renaissance Day in the City of Meridian and call upon the people of the Treasure Valley to celebrate the accomplishments of Skills USA Team Renaissance and it's signed by the Mayor here today. Can we give our attendees a round of applause. And Madam Mayor -- and I will just say Greg Groves was a very good friend of mine and was a great champion of this organization and will be dearly missed and personally and professionally I have had lots of opportunities to interface with -- with Team Renaissance and Skills USA and you guys are just great examples and true ambassador to our community. So, we appreciate you being here today. I have got a proclamation that's signed by the Mayor for you all and maybe if you all want to come up to the microphone, introduce yourself, talk about which competitions you are participating in and let everybody here know a little bit more about the program . I will turn it over to you. Britt: Madam Mayor, City Council Members and also ladies and gentlemen, my name is Lee Britt and I am an instructor at Renaissance High School for firefighting. I'm also on the state board for Skills USA. To tell you a little bit about Skills USA, it is a worldwide organization. There are hundreds of thousands of members in this organization . The students that you see behind me, they are all going to be competing in different categories throughout April and in June. In April we will be doing our state competition. They will be Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 12 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 4 of 84 competing in leadership events, they will be competing in skilled technical events, they will be doing interview, soft skills and -- and part of what Skills USA does for our students is that we are able to put them into leadership positions. They go through leadership training. They are also in their skilled technical areas are prepared for jobs in the future. They also learn soft skills, interview skills and help -- to help community service in helping our community throughout the year. I would like to just say that in the past four years that I have been here in Idaho as an instructor for firefighting that we have sent about 150 students to nationals, which is in Louisville, Kentucky, every year and these students have competed very well and have ended up mostly in the top ten out of all 50 states in the nation and these are the students and they will introduce themselves, tell you what they are going to be competing in and what school that they are in and what grade they are in. Nunalee: Hello guys, I'm Scott Nunalee and I go to Rocky Mountain High School. I'm in 12th grade and I'm going to compete in construction trade at the Nampa Civic Center. Shawls: My name is Sailey Shawls. I go to Rocky Mountain High School. I'm a junior. This is my second year doing Skills USA and I am competing in community service. Belgrito: My name is Al Belgrito. I'm a senior at Centennial High School and I am also part of the community service team. Lent: My name is Craig Lent. I'm a sophomore at Eagle High School and I'm competing in chapter display. McCosh: Hello. I am Ian McCosh. I am a sophomore at Mountain View and I will be competing in chapter display. Martin: Hello, everybody. I'm Logan Martin. I am a junior at Eagle High School and I am competing in fire services. Pollock: Hello. My name is Olivia Pollock. I'm a junior at Mountain View High School and I will be also competing in fire services. Sal: I'm Sal. I go to Mountain View and competing for law. Sawyer: My name is Raymond Sawyer. I'm a junior at Rocky Mountain High School and I will be competing for law enforcement at the Idaho POST Academy. Noah: My name is Noah. I'm also competing on law enforcement and last year I was here around the same time and I promised Mayor Tammy I would bring home a gold medal and here is that gold medal for you. This is just a state metal, but I promise I will bring home a giant gold national medal this year. Item 7: Consent Agenda [Action Item] Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 13 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 5 of 84 A. Approve the Minutes from February 5, 2019, City Council Regular Meeting Agenda B. Barger Subdivision - Sanitary Sewer and Water Main Easement C. Final Plat for Edgehill Subdivision No. 1 (H-2019-0003) by Trilogy Development, Located at 1393 and 1405 W. Victory Rd. D. Final Plat for Hill's Century Farm Subdivision No. 12 (H-2019- 0008) by Brighton Investments, LLC , Located on the North side of E. Lake Hazel Rd, 1/2 mile East of S . Eagle Rd. E. Final Plat for Hill's Century Farm No. 13 (H-2019-0010) by Brighton Investments, LLC , Located East of S . Eagle Rd., and North of E. Lake Hazel Rd. F. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for Bainbridge Franklin (H2018-0057) by Steve Bainbridge, Located at 2075 and 2155 W. Franklin Rd. G. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for Warrick Subdivision (H2018-0115) by Schultz Development, Located at 2445 E . Amity Rd. H. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for Alicia Court Subdivision (H-2018-0107) by Riley Planning Services, Located at 4036 E . Granger Ave. I. Acceptance Agreements for Display of Artwork in Initial Point Gallery 1. Patrick Robinson, April 2019 2. Janet Sturgill, July- August 2019 3. Art Source Gallery, November 2019 J. Resolution No. 19-2129: Approving Sixth Lease Amendment for Lease of Room at Meridian Police Station to Idaho Department of Correction K. Sixth Lease Amendment Between Idaho Department of Correction and City of Meridian L. AP Invoices for Payment 2/14/19- $608,241.79 M . AP Invoices for Payment 2/20/19- $2,608,597.13 Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 14 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 6 of 84 De Weerd: Okay. Item 7 is -- thank you, Mr. Cavener, for doing that. Okay. Item No. 7 is our Consent Agenda. Cavener: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Cavener. Cavener: I move we approve our Consent Agenda as published, for the Mayor to sign and the Clerk to attest. Milam: Second. De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve the Consent Agenda. Mr. Clerk, will you call roll. Roll call: Borton, absent; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea; Bernt, yea. De Weerd: All ayes. MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT. Item 8: Items Moved From The Consent Agenda [Action Item] De Weerd: Okay. There were no items moved from the Consent Agenda. Item 9: Action Items A. Public Hearing for Proposed Vehicle Sharing Program Ordinance Third Reading of Ordinance No. 19-1809: An Ordinance Adding A New Chapter, Chapter 6, To Title 3, Meridian City Code, Regarding Vehicle Sharing Programs; Amending Meridian City Code Section 4-2-2, Regarding Party Responsible For Nuisance; Adding A New Section, Meridian City Code Section 7-1-9, To Title 7, Chapter 1, Meridian City Code, Regarding Electric Power-Assisted Bicycles And Scooters; Adding A New Subsection, Subsection 7-1-9(F), To Meridian City Code Section 7-1-9, Regarding Prohibited Parking; Adopting A Savings Clause; And Providing An Effective Date. De Weerd: So, we will move into the Action Items. Our first public hearing up is on the -- Item 9-A, the public hearing for proposed vehicle sharing program ordinance. I thought I would -- first we might have some new folks in the audience here wanting to provide testimony. During the public hearing process for ordinances we will read the -- the ordinance by title only and, then, open it up for public comment. You have three minutes Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 15 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 7 of 84 to provide your thoughts and comments and, then, Council, this is the third reading, they will decide if they want to make any changes to the ordinance and move it forward or if they do make changes, then, it will go through the reading process at their discretion. For those who are here for land use process I will explain that when we get to the land use section. So, with that, I will go ahead and ask our city clerk to, please, read Ordinance 19-1809 by title. Coles: Thank you, Madam Mayor. City of Meridian Ordinance No. 19-1809, an Ordinance adding a new chapter, Chapter 6, to Title 3, Meridian City Code, regarding vehicle sharing programs; amending Meridian City Code Section 4-2-2, regarding party responsible for nuisance; adding a new section, Meridian City Code Section 7-1-9, to Title 7, Chapter 1, Meridian City Code, regarding electric power-assisted bicycles and scooters; adding a new subsection, Subsection 7-1-9(F), to Meridian City Code Section 7-1-9, regarding prohibited parking; adopting a savings clause; and providing an effective date. De Weerd: This is the third reading and we are taking public hearing on the ordinance that is in front of Council. Mr. Nary, can you give a brief overview of where we are and the intent of the ordinance. Nary: Yes. Again, thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. So, the ordinance that's been proposed has been on your agenda for the last couple of weeks. Basically it creates an operator system for our licensee to request the ability to operate this business within the city. They have a minimum number of vehicles they have to provide as part of that service, as well as a maximum number as well. Again, it's an application process for a licensee. The maximum is two licensees currently and the ordinance maximum of 700 scooters that can be deployed by each licensee -- or, excuse me, total amount of 700 to 350 per licensee with a minimum of a hundred. The other portion that you have in front of you for review on this program is related to the regulations for operating these vehicles -- or operating the scooters, how they can be used, where they can be used. There is one issue I do need to raise for the Council to consider in -- in the drafting of it there -- we discovered today there is a discrepancy between the licensee portion and the operation portion and what that is is in the discussions by the committee there was a discussion on whether or not to park these vehicles on private property where a written permission would need to be provided or be secured prior parking and the committee felt that that was a difficult thing to enforce and made a decision not to require it. So , in the operator section is not in there that that is required, but in the parking provision it is and so it got overlooked in the drafting and so my recommendation would be to pick either one. There is certainly pros and cons on both sides on whether to require written permission to or to not and -- and the committee had made a decision not to require it, but it does need to be cleaned up prior to publication for a final ordinance, that it either needs to be required or not, that it can't be -- it can't conflict. So, if there is other questions I can answer those. De Weerd: Council, any questions? Cavener: Madam Mayor? Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 16 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 8 of 84 De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Cavener. Cavener: Couple questions. First for Mr. Nary. I know Emily is not here, but that piece about written permission for private property, how do other municipalities across the country handle that? What was the discussion from the committee about that? Nary: Mr. Coles was a part of the committee, so he could probably answer that. I will tell you from the practical standpoint right now when you're looking at a vehicle -- so, not this type of vehicle, but other vehicles, there are parking lots and things that are open to the public and there are places to park vehicles and such and I don't know if that was the gist of it, but that's really how it is handled for private vehicles in general is that -- it depends on the -- and they could sign it, they can post it. If they want to post no scooters on their property they can. So, they have the ability to enforce that themselves if they wish. The difficulty is -- on the enforcement end is -- and, again, thinking of it in relation to vehicles -- the operator of the vehicle never gets the parking ticket, it always goes to the vehicle itself. So, I don't know if the concern from the committee was trying to address that from the operator standpoint, from the -- the franchisee's standpoint, so -- and that may have been -- and, again, Mr. Coles can help with that, but it's certainly not undoable. I mean it -- and I can give you one common example. If you rent a vehicle from a commercial vehicle rental, Alamo, Hertz, whatever, they do -- almost every one of them will now tell you if you get a citation in this vehicle or charge , like a parking ticket or a toll bill or something like that and don't report it or take care of it, when it comes back to them they will charge your credit card for it. So, there are means that the -- that the -- the property or the -- the owner of the scooter can address this issue as well if they wish. But that's up to them. But, again, Mr. Coles could probably help with more of that. But that's the general way of enforcement. De Weerd: Mr. Coles. Coles: Thank you, Madam Chair. Unfortunately, I don't think I can really add much more to that. I don't recall specifically this piece of the conversation . We have had many conversations about this, other than I know it was -- and enforcement was the biggest issue here, how is the city going to handle enforcement of that, especially on private property. But the specifics down that -- that road I do not recall this conversation. Cavener: Madam Mayor, I guess an additional question. I learned today that -- it looks like Kaycee for the Mayor's office put out a poll asking the public for their feedback. I'm just curious the methodology around that poll, when that was pushed out, who that was pushed out to and scientific validity behind it and jus t put in our packet for consideration. Who the right person is to talk to about that. De Weerd: It was just a question that was put out on NextDoor to get a sense of, one, does the public know that this was up as an item for discussion in front of Council and since we did get comments that people didn't know about it, it was to -- to say, hey, what are your thoughts, yes, no, don't know. So, there is nothing scientific. Just another way Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 17 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 9 of 84 to -- to get public sentiments and to let the public know that this was an item for discussion in front of Council. Cavener: Madam Mayor, follow up? De Weerd: Uh-huh. Cavener: Do we know how long the poll was up for and who was able to access it or see it? De Weerd: Yeah. Everyone on NextDoor. It was sent out like we put out all our communications on NextDoor. Cavener: Sorry, Madam Mayor. Do we know -- De Weerd: I don't know how long. No. Cavener: Thank you. Coles: Madam Mayor, -- I can -- I believe I can answer that. De Weerd: Mr. Coles. Coles: Thank you. It was put out Friday at some time. I don't know the exact time of day on Friday, but it was put out on Friday. Cavener: Thank you. Bernt: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bernt. Bernt: I believe over 800 people replied to it, so -- De Weerd: Okay. Anything further at this point? Okay. Mr. Coles, I would ask if you could read the names of those that have signed up. Coles: Thank you, Madam Mayor. We do have a few sign-ups this evening. Russell Spearman is the first on the list to address the Council. De Weerd: Good evening. If you will, please, state your name and address for the record. Spearman: It's Russell Spearman. 411 West Claire Court, Meridian, Idaho. De Weerd: Thank you. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 18 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 10 of 84 Spearman: Madam Mayor, Members of the City Council, my name is Russ Spearman and I'm a 39 year resident of the City of Meridian. I'm also on the board of directors for the Brain Injury Alliance of Idaho, a 501(c)(3) that promotes awareness, understanding and prevention of brain injury based on the express needs of individuals with a brain injury in their families. Since 2000 I have served as the program director for Idaho's traumatic brain injury program for the state of Idaho through Idaho State University's Meridian campus. My comments today are specific to the ordinance 19 -1809. I'd like to begin by saying companies like Bird, Lime, Scoot or Spin offer smartphone applications allowing users to search for a scooter nearby, tap to run it, and they are free to ride away, but they don't require and enforce helmets and representatives from emergency departments across the nation express concern throughout this past summer. Electric scooters have an average top speed of 15 miles per hour, significantly faster than the six miles per hour cruising speed of a bicycle. They are also less than half the size and in many cities downtown neighborhoods ill equipped to navigate the -- the terrain, storm grates, broken sidewalks, potholes and traffic. Injuries suffered in electric scooter accidents can be devastating, especially without a helmet. Traumatic brain injuries are devastating to the individual, his or her family members and loved ones, coworkers in the community. Ashanti Jordan has not woken up since the day six weeks ago when she hopped on a green and black scooter and took off onto a downtown Fort Lauderdale street . A car hit her as she rode for the -- rode the for rent scooter. The initial police investigation says she ran a stop sign and was struck by an oncoming Toyota Corolla, sending her flying about 25 feet. Today she lies in a vegetative state in a hospital with a fractured skull, a severe brain injury and multiple broken ribs. Doctors also had to remove a portion of her skull. Her family's currently suing Lime, because the Lime application indicates that riders must ride in the street, but the local policy in our city is to ride on the sidewalk. This discrepancy, along with people neglecting to wear helmets, has led to accidents such as this one. The Lime app states that riders must wear a helmet, but not all riders, including the woman in this accident, abide by that rule. Closer to home, just this past fall we had the man in the dinosaur costume who fell off the e-scooter and struck a woman in a Boise crosswalk. There has been at least one death in Dallas, Texas, as a result of e-scooters. As has already been alluded to, the poll conducted by the Meridian Mayor's office shows that out of 850 Meridian residents only 37 percent supported the operation of e-scooters in Meridian, while 56 percent oppose their operation. In the January 2019 edition of the Journal of American -- from the American Medical Association, they looked at injuries associated with standing electric scooter use from two separate hospital emergency rooms. They found that the most common injury were falls at 80.2 percent, collision with an object at 11 percent, being hit by motor vehicle or object at 8.8 percent. Only ten individuals or 4.4 percent of all riders were wearing a helmet. I would like to end my comments by saying that the Brain Injury Alliance of Idaho is not opposed to the use of e-scooters or e-bikes, but believes that the ordinance before the City Council does not include the safeguards and protections that should be afforded to all residents of Meridian. Some of the recommendations we would like to suggest are the following: I think we would all agree that the rollout last spring of the use of e-scooters was premature on too large a scale and it did not include protections for both the rider, as well as the community. We would recommend piloting by downsizing the number of riders to 50, consider limiting to a particular geographic area within the city limits, collect additional data and make Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 19 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 11 of 84 adjustments based on use and feedback. Another recommendation would be to consider the use of a helmet similar to the echo helmet. That's a new helmet that's out. It's a unique honeycomb structure that absorbs impact by spreading the blow evenl y around the head in the case of a crash when riding and it should be a requirement and forced in the ordinance. We would also like to -- like to recommend that consideration be given for including a minimum age requirement for the use of e-scooters in the ordinance. We would like to recommend 18 years of age for use of an e-scooter. We also recognize that there exists an inability to monitor those that are using an e-scooter. Lastly, we would like to just say that given the population growth and desire to improve the city's infrastructure, we also recommend moving forward with a time limited work group or advisory group involving all interested -- interested stakeholders that would assist city leaders in coming up with a plan, thereby mitigating und ue harm on riders, as well as citizens of this great community. I would like to leave you with this quote from the executive director of the Brain Injury Association of America. When you hit a pothole on a bicycle -- when you hit a pothole on a bicycle with a 26 inch wheel, you may have an issue . When you hit a pothole on any scooter with a six inch wheel you are going to have an issue no matter the age or size of the rider. Meridian city leaders must protect their communities by demanding e-scooter companies offer protective equipment, especially helmets for all riders. Members of the Meridian City Council, thank you for the opportunity to provide feedback. I stand open for questions, if that's appropriate. De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions? We appreciate you joining us. Cavener: Madam Mayor? Sir? I do have a question. De Weerd: Mr. Cavener. Cavener: Mr. Spearman, thank you for being here. I appreciate having someone with a unique subject matter expertise coming to provide some testimony tonight. A couple questions that will help -- kind of help me. Are you aware of what, if any, laws exist in Meridian or in Idaho that require helmets of any kind, whether it's off a scooter share, personal bike -- again, I look back when I was in elementary school and high school, I never used a helmet on a bike. Now I do all the time. I never wore a helmet when I was skiing because, apparently, I wasn't crazy and now I wear my helmet all the time. I'm just trying to understand if those have happened by -- by people modifying their habits or if that is a result of -- of law. And you may be the best qualified person to provide some of that expertise. Spearman: To my knowledge there is no helmet law in the state of Idaho as it relates to bicycles or motorcycles for that matter. There wasn't when we moved back in 1998 when the state underwent Medicaid modernization and Governor Kempthorne tried to move forward with -- with some legislation at that time, but it didn't -- it didn't go anywhere. That's not to say that, you know, at the municipal or the -- or the city level that -- that helmet use, you know, couldn't be prescribed. I think -- I think from an enforcement standpoint clearly that's -- that's an issue. I will say that -- you know, I read -- I read this morning in the state of California for an individual 18 years of age on an electric scooter Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 20 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 12 of 84 without a helmet, they can get fined 500 dollars. Pretty -- pretty steep. It is California. But if it was -- if there was a fine commensurate, you know with the -- with -- with the City of Meridian that might be a deterrent and to your point, I never -- I never wore a helmet growing up as a kid, but, boy, my -- my children sure do and whether they are -- whether they are skiing at Bogus or -- or on their bicycle. Cavener: Madam Mayor. We drove up to Bogus two weeks ago and realized that I didn't have my helmet and so we drove an hour back down to grab the helmet and an hour back. So, it's -- it's habit forming and it's good. Madam Mayor, a couple other questions. Your -- your comment about an age in the audience I think is really intriguing and I'm just curious from your perspective should that pertain only to those who use these kind of rental services? I think because I have been researching scooter shares, my Google ad and my social media ads are just inundated with -- by -- by e-scooters and -- and don't -- don't rent one, just own one and so I guess from your perspective should an age for an ordinance only pertain to someone who is going to be using this mobile device to check one out or should we be setting an age restriction for anybody who wants to use an electric scooter or nonelectric scooter or a bike? As someone who really represents brain injury, I'm really interested in -- to kind of what you think are some of the best practices for us as a city to -- to consider. Spearman: I had a difficult time -- I had a difficult time coming up with the age. You know, I began with -- with 14 to 16 years of age and, then, I found that in looking at, you know, what some of the other ordinances look like out there, that 18, you know seemed reasonable. That's the -- you know, it's the legal emancipated age and, you know, for most states. I surmise -- I can't specifically tell you that this is a fact, but I surmise that when -- when we had the roll out here in Meridian that they were -- that there were many people under -- under 18 years of age that were -- that were using those scooters and maybe as young as ten and 12 years -- years of age. At least they looked that young. And I think there may have been a lot of -- you know, a lot of work in getting the information out to the community, but I don't -- I don't suspect -- I don't believe that the community was ready. I know -- I'm president of my homeowner's association and I can tell you that we were not prepared for -- to see e-scooters on sidewalks. Cavener: Madam Mayor? Mr. Spearman, I'm -- I'm on the City Council and I wasn't prepared for it when -- when they deployed. So, I think that's one of the reasons why we as a Council are taking this so seriously. Madam Mayor, one more question if I may. Your -- your comment about a pilot, smaller scooters in a certain geographic area, and you -- your -- the word used to -- to gain data and feedback, what -- what data and feedback would you hope to attain from -- from a smaller pilot from your perspective that would be beneficial, either to move you either in favor or in opposition? Because, essentially, I think you're kind of neutral. Spearman: I think -- I think the City Council has -- has the ability to be able to draw some geo -- geographic boundaries around -- around the city without -- without being discriminatory in any way and can limit the number of scooters that may not be palatable to the franchisee, but they will -- they will recoup their money eventually and to start small, Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 21 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 13 of 84 you know, in a locale. I just think it makes good sense, because I think there is a lot that we don't know as it relates to e-scooters. It's not just the City of Meridian, it's -- it's -- you know, Boise is struggling with this issue as well. So -- so, my question would be why not -- why not go slow? Why not move into this incrementally. Cavener: Madam Mayor. Help me, though, because I think that if -- if we -- let's say we were to do a smaller geographic area for the intent of gaining data , we as a Council or the Mayor or city go to these operators and say this is data that we need and I guess I'm struggling to find out what are the -- what are those things -- what are those data points that a city would want to see to help -- and for someone who works in brain injury would want to be aware of to help better form your opinion. Spearman: The biggest issue would be what's the age of the rider. What's the terrain that they are riding on. Are they riding on sidewalks? Are they riding on -- on -- on paved roads? You know, are they -- are they wearing a helmet? You know, the -- I mentioned the age. Injury. You know, would be -- have they -- you know, have they sustained an injury. I mean, obviously, on the enforcement side it's going to fall to the franchisee to some extent, but I think it's also going to fall to our -- our law enforcement folks and -- I don't know if that answers the question or not. Cavener: I appreciate it. I really do. Appreciate you being here tonight and I appreciate your testimony greatly. Spearman: Thank you. De Weerd: Thank you. Any other questions? Palmer: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Palmer. Palmer: Not a question, just -- the only helmet law that I'm aware -- as I'm looking for nods or shakes -- is that on motorcycles if you're riding or driving a motorcycle and you're under 18 that you're required to have one. I don't know that we have any other helmet laws in Idaho. Yes, that was confirmed. Spearman: Thank you. De Weerd: Thank you. Coles: Next is Brian Leslie. De Weerd: Good evening and thank you for joining us. If you will, please, state your name and address for the record. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 22 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 14 of 84 Leslie: Good evening, Madam Mayor and City Council. My name is Brian Leslie. I'm at 4647 North Tipton, Meridian. 83646. De Weerd: Thank you. Leslie: So, as Councilman Cavener probably already knows, I'm a member of the Transportation Commission with Meridian. I'm also a member of the bicycle advisory committee for ACHD. I'm not here on behalf of either of those today. I'm just here as a private citizen. I'm an advocate of alternative transportation models, helping people get around other than in cars. So, first I want to thank the Council for being open and receptive to the e-scooters and e-bikes. They are a low cost, nonpolluting, congestion reducing typically options that frequently replace motor vehicle trips and I don't know if anybody saw, but Portland had a four month pilot program and they released a study that was very detailed and they found that about 35 to 40 percent of scooter rides replaced vehicle trips. So, Boise's had the program I think since mid October and by and large it's been pretty good. There was the one incident with some guy in a dinosaur suit riding on a sidewalk and he hit somebody, but by and large has been a pretty successful operation. I do want to say, though, that some of these operators have made mistakes in other cities when they have rolled out and it wasn't exactly smooth here in Meridian either. I think the -- the operators need to be more proactive when they enter these communities with educating users on how to ride them, how to park them, you know, what -- where to ride, where not to ride and they have that capability to custom tailor their instructions to a particular community and I think they really also need to have more enforcement on their own part for where people are parking these scooters, b ecause every time somebody has to park these they have to take a picture of it, so they have a record of what it looks like and if it's in the middle of the street, you know -- and up to this point in time it seems like they really haven't taken any action against their users. So, my question on the ordinance is -- it appears that it's only for vehicle sharing, e-scooters and e-bike. You don't have to answer now, I just want to throw it out there, but are personal e-scooters and personal e- bikes included -- I'm seeing heads -- they are not included in this. Okay. So, I have concern about -- concerns about that, because if personal e-scooters and e-bikes are not included in this ordinance, if this ordinance is adopted as is, the rules for personal devices are going to be different than these vehicle sharing devices, which is a bad idea. People are -- they need to be the same; right? An e-bike is an e-bike whether it's a vehicle sharing or your own personal one. On Section 3-6-3D I was curious why there is an hours of operation limit, 11 :00 p.m. to 6:00 a.m. ban. They have headlights. They have tail lights. So, I was just curious why they have that in there. It also said the scooters need to be physically removed -- oh. Said the scooters need to be removed, but it -- does that mean if it's physically removed or -- from the public domain or just inactivated for riders to ride them? Section 3-6-3E2. It's -- it's a good -- a good idea in principle, particularly for those people with vision and mobility limitations, but it says you can't block us -- the sidewalk has to stay five feet clear and it seems, just from my walking around the city, do we have any sidewalks that are more than five feet wide? I think most of our sidewalks are pretty narrow. De Weerd: Yes, we do. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 23 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 15 of 84 Leslie: Do we? De Weerd: Uh-huh. Leslie: We have a few, but like in my -- my subdivision -- De Weerd: We would love to see more, but -- Leslie: Right. So, if the sidewalks are less than five feet I'm assuming they can't put them on the sidewalk, they would have to put them on private property. De Weerd: And, Brian, if you can start wrapping up your remarks. Leslie: Okay. De Weerd: Your three minutes were up two minutes ago. Leslie: Oh, man. I'm sorry. I guess Boise's program is working pretty well. I think we should probably emulate their -- their regs that they enabled. So, really, my biggest concern is Section 7-1-9-2. If you eliminate A, B and C and just tell people ride on the sidewalk if you can and you don't feel safe in the street, it's working for Boise fine and that's pretty much all I had. De Weerd: Thank you very much. Council, any questions? Cavener: Madam Mayor? Little Roberts: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts. Little Roberts: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Brian, you said it could replace vehicle trips and I'm curious in Meridian where we don't have other forms of transportation -- because most of what I have experienced are people is getting off a bus and, then, getting a scooter and going to work or things like that where they have been either going to walk or use another form, but where we don't have much other transportation to connect to, what kind of trips are you imagining them replacing in Meridian? Leslie: I would imagine Lime has a lot of that data to show where people are -- are riding them. I would venture to guess it's closer to the core -- to the downtown core. Eagle Road. But I -- yeah, you're right, we don't have much public transportation here. So, it's probably going to be from their home -- Little Roberts: Thank you. Cavener: Madam Mayor? Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 24 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 16 of 84 De Weerd: Mr. Cavener. Cavener: Commissioner Leslie, I appreciate you being here. Brian Leslie. There was a -- the previous testimony talked a lot about helmets and I'm just curious for someone who does a lot of work for bicyclists and bicyclists' rights and working with the highway district, what's your opinion on should the City Council be requiring operators to have helmets? Should we be looking as a city to require helmets amongst all riders, whether it be electric scooters or bicycles? I'm curious if you have any insight on that you would be willing to share. Leslie: Unequivocally, absolutely no mandatory helmet laws. Mandatory helmet laws reduce ridership. That has been proven everywhere it's been enacted and they don't keep you safe. When you get -- the vast majority of bicycle injuries or when a car hits a bicycle and 4,000 pounds hitting you, a little foam hat is not going to save you. Helmets were designed for low impact, low speed, kind of injuries and those are few and far between. Cavener: Thank you. Leslie: Infrastructure is the best thing. Cavener: Thank you, sir. De Weerd: Off street lanes that bicyclists and e-scooters can travel safely; right? Leslie: Yeah. That would be great. De Weerd: Any other questions? Thank you. Leslie: Thank you. Coles: Next is Jonathan Hopkins. De Weerd: Thank you for joining us. If you will, please, state your name and address for the record. Hopkins: Jonathan Hopkins. Bell Street in Seattle, Washington. So, good evening, Mayor de Weerd and Council. We wanted -- I'm Jonathan Hopkins, the regional government relations manager for -- for Lime and you may know my colleague Megan, who is here. She's met with some of you and also colleague Aaron , who is coaching a son's basketball game tonight, so I decided to come on over and stand in for them here tonight. I definitely want to thank everybody for the opportunity to speak today and thanks for your work to bring new mobility options to Meridian that the community we have seen is eager to use. We are also eager to continue to collaborate with the city, local businesses, local civic organizations to help bring a coordinated seamless scooter launch to the city. In fact, we have learned from our experiences early in this history and you Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 25 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 17 of 84 were part of that history about how important that good community engagement is and because of that, that's -- those lessons have been applied in other cities. We build really close relationships with the community and we are doing that currently in Boise. In fact, we just came from meetings with the city of Boise earlier today. Their staff is busy working on rules to double the size of the scooter fleet in their city at the direction of council, because of council's satisfaction with how that -- that program has gone in the city of Boise. Also, you know, Lime takes safety very very seriously. We want our customers to remain our customers and to remain healthy good citizens in their communities . Our outreach encourages use of helmets and other safety best practices and we are eager to collaborate with organizations that are focused on safety. Specifically we launched a three million dollar campaign that we called Respect The Ride in the fall, which focuses on both education outreach, such as asking users to take a pledge to ride sa fely, distributions of tens of thousands of helmets and we even have developed new scooters that we are -- we are testing now that have two inch larger wheel bases, front shocks, much more stable to improve safety. In fact, we do know from cities that have collected data on safety -- namely Salt Lake City and Portland. The Multnomah County Health Department, Portland, and the city of Salt Lake's -- the city's DOT -- both say there is no indication that injuries and accidents from scooters are significantl y different than those affecting pedestrians or bicycle riders. We are a strong supporter this measure, noting the committee's original intent that private property owners be able to keep scooters off their property, but the written intent -- written approval not be required. We definitely thank Meridian for your leadership on this, to help bring new mobility options to further -- to greater parts of the Treasure Valley. So, thank you for your time tonight. De Weerd: Thank you. Hopkins: We are always happy to answer any questions that you have. De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions? Milam: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mrs. Milam. Milam: Just to get a little bit of perspective -- you mentioned Portland. So, can you give us an example of how many scooters you have deployed there . I know we are talking a much larger city, but -- Hopkins: Portland had a total of 2,000 scooters initially, but their DOT believes that -- their DOT says a lot more could be put on the streets -- like thousands and thousands more to meet the demand of the city. Milam: Because the city limits of Portland it's -- okay. And, Madam Mayor, follow up. How many accidents that -- that come back to you, are you aware of? And maybe that -- you probably need more parameters. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 26 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 18 of 84 Hopkins: Yeah. I don't have specific data on accidents from Portland that Lime collected. The best information we have is from the Multnomah County Health Department, that the general takeaway is that there were fewer accidents during that period than there were on bikes and -- but there is certainly a learning curve and as -- even as people started using scooters more the number of accidents went down. So, it's just like getting on a bike for the first time, people should do it at low speed and figure it out. Bernt: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bernt. Bernt: Thank you. Thank you for coming. Hopkins: It's a pleasure to be here. Bernt: Yeah. Remind me what the minimum age is for Lime. Hopkins: For us we require people to be 18 years of age. Bernt: And remind -- Madam Mayor, follow up. De Weerd: Uh-huh. Bernt: Mr. Nary, what is -- I don't remember what our ordinance is saying -- do we have a minimum age in our -- I don't remember seeing that. Nary: I don't believe so. Can I add one more thing, Councilman Bernt. And not specifically that question, but it was brought up that the ordinances before you only apply to the leasing companies. The operation ones, 7-1-9 and 7-2-2 apply to all scooters, not just ones that are rented. The other parts regarding the licensing only apply to those companies. But the operational ones are to everyone. But there isn't an age limit. Palmer: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Palmer. Palmer: Mr. Hopkins, how many -- so, more people earn a -- an income from Uber than from any other company in the world, because of their -- their platform and their ability for pretty much anybody to take advantage of the earning opportunity there. How many people locally are earning an income off of Lime's juicer service? Hopkins: In the Treasure Valley it's hundreds. Palmer: Hundreds? Any idea how many hundreds, roughly? Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 27 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 19 of 84 Hopkins: We have over 20 staff. They are full-time staff in Boise. That number will increase should Meridian allow scooter service here and those employees can come from throughout the region. Additionally, there is juicers -- I mean our company is named Lime, so everything has to be metaphorically correct. So , the juicers are recharges for the scooters and those people come from throughout the community. It has -- it has an equity impact, in fact. It's five to 20 dollars per scooter that you recharge. It's pretty easy to do. People of all ages and abilities can go do that sort of thing and earn money on their own time and it helps take care of the community, they help deploy them in the morning, based on guidance they get through an app showing where the proper deployment zones are. Palmer: Thank you. De Weerd: Mr. Hopkins, I guess I have a question in terms of this ordinance holds the operators accountable to the driver's behavior. How does the company hold driver's behavior accountable? Hopkins: Madam Mayor, I think that's something as we continue to innovate and evaluate best practices it improves safety and helps bring proper norms to communities. We are definitely exploring like what sort of options work from just notifying riders if they have been noticed, you know, doing something to violate the rules or leaving the scooter in a place that it shouldn't have been left. But there is -- I think we will see continued evolution or exploration of like what tools work best and companies like this love to beta test and test, okay, is the behavior better through one type of activity than another. Much more than -- anything more aggressive than that is just something that sometimes communities discuss with us. De Weerd: So, you could have repeat behavior from one user that -- that is ongoing, there is no way that you have to block their usage or anything like that ? Hopkins: We are definitely able to do that, should we decide to. With good cause. De Weerd: Because certainly the first four days of the rollout showed a lot of bad behavior and they weren't 18. I know you require the helmet. I -- I also know not very many people walk the streets of Meridian with a helmet in their hand looking for something to ride. So, that one's difficult, but if you require these different things that you have a credit card, you're 18, you have a helmet, how do you enforce that? Hopkins: If there is reports of something with a certain user's account, that's something we can deal with and continue to talk to the city about. Beyond that -- there is certainly certain norms that have to develop, like people have to have a chance to use these sorts of things, just like we have certain norms with biking, certain norms with cars, those things have been developed over decades and the way we get to that is both by having a community that has expectations. What we found is on these scooters it's not just 19 year olds and 20 year olds riding it, but it's the broad swath of the community and when we have the whole community out there, there is a self policing aspect of that over time, as well as the communication that we have with local city government, with the police Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 28 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 20 of 84 department, to try and tweak things where necessary to help the proper best norms develop to help people both have mobility and safety at the same time. De Weerd: So, in the ordinance it also contemplates -- I guess I am more sensitive to how the first rollout impacted public perception and, you know, the committee came and made a recommendation to roll this out a little bit with greater caution, using one operator to -- to understand how the ordinance works and work out any bugs before we open it up to everyone. The way we have it being proposed tonight is that it's kind of first in gets to -- the first two in are the two operators we move forward with. What do you thin k of that approach and would you suggest a different type of rollout? Hopkins: Madam Mayor, I think it's important to work to bring the best quality operators that have demonstrated a willingness to work with the community and, you know, produce best practices of that sort of partnership. I don't know if -- like the first two to, you know, essentially digitally dropped their name in the hat is necessarily the pathway to get there. It's our strong belief that in a competitive marketplace there should be just some sort of method to select the most qualified providers. If it's the first two that arrive, there is -- there are other cities that have picked less qualified providers and have had negative experiences with that, both from the quality of the hardware, as well as just the quality of the interaction with that organization and when -- when we risk taking less qualified providers, we actually risk just re-experiencing the experience that the community had here earlier when all the -- when the whole marketplace was younger; right? Well, there is certain companies that have gained experience over the past nearly two years and there are others that have not. Our lessons at Lime are to work with your staff, to work with political leaders, and not just stop there, to work with business associations, civic organizations to try and educate on what are the norms, how can we roll this out , where, what are your concerns, maybe there is something we can do about that. Those -- those sorts of things and that's why we have staff that's here present in the community to do that sort of work, because we find it absolutely important. We believe like the best, most mobile cities will have really strong partnership between organizations that are private and organizations that are public, like yourselves. De Weerd: I think you have raised a good point. I know a comment earlier was a race to the bottom and certainly you -- you want to give this an opportunity, like Mr. Leslie said, to -- to shine and to show that it is a viable alternative transportation option, but what we can't afford is another failure and, you know, I -- I was interested to hear your -- your comments on that. Hopkins: Thanks, Madam Mayor. Cavener: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Cavener. Cavener: In your testimony you talked about lessons learned, which was music to my ears. I think there is a lot of lessons you guys have learned. You touched on engaging Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 29 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 21 of 84 with other local stakeholders to better improve rollout. So, I'm curious what type of outreach and connections have you made with local stakeholders in Meridian to ensure , should you be one of the companies to roll out, that things go much smoother than they were when -- when you first rolled out? Hopkins: Largely to date our stakeholder engagement has included the police department, some members of Council, but during those meetings there -- a main point of that effort was to identify who else can we talk to -- to chambers of commerce, like we were just in Boise speaking to the downtown association, to -- and to the universities and colleges in the area. So, our intent is to do the same in this case. There is time between the time that this passes and the time that a vendor is selected and goes out onto the road; right? And so our intent is to use that time to work with local business associations and local civic organizations. Cavener: Madam Mayor? So, what I'm hearing is today, outside of talking to the police department and some select city council members, that public engagement has not happened on Lime's behalf. Hopkins: The actual engagement hasn't happened. The plan has already begun. Cavener: Thank you. Little Roberts: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mrs. Little Robert. Little Roberts: Madam Mayor. Jonathan, it seems that we keep covering experiences in larger cities, Boise and larger. Have you rolled out in a city -- a community that's more Meridian size and how has that worked? Hopkins: Earlier this year we launched 500 bicycles in Bellevue. So, slightly different. It's bicycles. But it still is shared mobility. Bellevue, I believe, is about 134,000 people. About the same distance from Seattle as Meridian is from Boise. I do think it's commensurate. Similarly, it's -- and this might be more Boise size, but we did scooters and bikes in Tacoma, Washington, which is 30,000 fewer people in Boise. But -- yeah. So -- and both of those have been strong successes. So, that -- so, something I wanted to clear up from a question that you had earlier about connections to transit. It's true that about 20 percent of our rides are connect -- people connecting directly to transit and that's music to our ears. It's people reducing congestion and reducing greenhouse emissions, but also 30 percent of riders are going to buy something at a store or market. Another 30 percent are commuting directly using the scooter to either work, school, or appointments. So, that's the data that we have from nationwide on that point. De Weerd: Thank you. Little Roberts: Madam Mayor? Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 30 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 22 of 84 De Weerd: Uh-huh. Little Roberts: Madam Mayor. Jonathan, I know that the rollout was very short lived, but do you have any data from it regarding what the rides were and if there was a particular area that was popular? Hopkins: We can provide that information. I know the scooters were getting about three rides a day, if I remember right, or more during the time we were there, which we consider good. We do have heat maps that can show where these are, so we can provide that. I just don't happen to have it with me. De Weerd: Thank you. Hopkins: Thank you. Coles: There were no other sign-ups, Madam Mayor. De Weerd: Okay. This is a public hearing. Is there anyone else who would like to provide testimony on this? Lavey: Madam Mayor, Council, just had a couple words I would like to say. De Weerd: Thanks, chief. Lavey: As you know I wasn't supportive of the scooters at first, but if it's what our community wants, then, we are willing to take a look at it and bring them forward. But I have to tell you today that what I have heard from the public is concerning to me and no matter which direction you go -- if you go with the helmet laws, that's concerning to me, because the only one that can enforce that is law enforcement and we do not want to take on that task. So, if Council is going to put that in an ordinance , then, we just as soon -- let's not have scooters at all. Likewise, if we are going to change the ordinances that applies to every single person, whether they are lessee of equipment or whether it's a privately owned equipment -- again, that is a resource that we do not have and if we have any interest in doing that, then, we need to stay out of the scooter business. It also has already been talked about somewhat today and I brought it up on the first time and I think I need to bring it up one more time. Not that it's going to do any good, but I need to bring it up one more time -- is I'm really concerned about the race to the start and we are going to get the two fastest people, not the two best people, and I expressed an our RFQ before and I will express an RFQ now. Let's weed out the bad, instead of accepting them and have to get rid of them out of our city. We are not going to get the best, we are going to get who is first and that's concerning to me. I will stand for any questions. De Weerd: Okay. Council, any questions? Milam: Madam Mayor? Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 31 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 23 of 84 De Weerd: Mrs. Milam. Milam: Chief, other than the four days that we had the scooters -- the rental scooters, are e-scooters -- has it been something that has been an issue for the police department -- like privately owned scooters or not really? Lavey: Madam Mayor, Councilman Milam, have they been an issue? Potentially. I know we have crashes every once in a while. We -- we do get them hit by cars every once in a while, but not often. I think what created the issue for us is it was something new. It was something on every corner. It was something nobody knew that was coming and they were playing. My guess is if we would have approached it differently we might have had a little different result and if we allow them to stay here longer than four days, some of that would have softened out, too, because they were neat, they were new, let's play. The age thing -- it's really hard to -- it's really hard to control. You can say what you want to say and that protects you liability wise, but it's -- it's hard to enforce, because all it takes is mommy and daddy's credit card and the smartphone they have in their pocket and it doesn't matter how old they are, they are good to go. So, it hasn't been a major problem, but this is just like anything else, whether it's a bicycle, whether it's a scooter, whether it's roller skates or whether its skateboards, yeah, there are issues but to what extent -- not a lot. Milam: Madam Mayor? And I don't know that age really has anything to do with it. I mean kids know that they are going to get hurt. My ten year old owns an e-scooter and is very responsible with it. He doesn't speed or go crazy. He rides on the sidewalk and he rides kind of slow. So, you know, I get when you're renting something you maybe get a little wild and try different things. I think more than age, even though it is a restriction on there that -- that doesn't get followed, having some kind of action come back to the rider for misbehavior I think would be the best bet and maybe figuring that out, but -- Lavey: Madam Mayor, Councilman Milam, I don't disagree with you. The only problem is the only way they are going to get that report is if law enforcement generates that report and that's -- that's -- that's concerning to me is we have other more importan t things to do in this city than to chase down every violator of a scooter. So, if the burden is going to fall on us, then, they need to stay out of our city. And, then, I will also say that a lot of our irresponsible drivers weren't necessarily under th e age of 18. De Weerd: And I think in renting a car we don't set the age limit on how old you have to be to rent a car, that's something for the -- the rental companies do. Certainly I don't think you care how old they are, they just need to have a driver's license; right? Lavey: Madam Mayor, that's -- that's correct and we are not going to know unless something bad happens and it -- likewise, if they set up these -- these age restrictions, we are not going to -- we are not going to enforce that. I just share that with you to -- to let you know that it may sound good that we are putting it in an ordinance, but if nobody's enforcing it, then, why do we put it in an ordinance. So, that's really kind of why age was left out before. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 32 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 24 of 84 De Weerd: Any further questions? Thank you. Lavey: Thanks. De Weerd: Any other testimony? Okay. Council, in front of you you do have the ordinances as written. If any changes are desired certainly we would have to -- to change it, bring it back and -- well, I will just turn this over to your discussion. Milam: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mrs. Milam. Milam: The more I have thought about this and talk to people, I do have some -- some issues that I -- things that I would like to see changed within the ordinance. First of all, the first come, first serve I think is a terrible idea. I said that last week and I'm saying it a little louder today. We should put out an RFQ, RFP, whatever it is, and make sure that we have the best company or companies, depending -- rather than just the first ones. I still think we should have geo fencing around playgrounds and, hopefully, that will just discourage ridership around playgrounds, so that we don't have two and three year olds getting run over by a little bit -- some older kids playing around on the e-scooters. I don't think there should be a minimum or maximum deployment time, because I don't think that whoever we get an agreement with is going to sit on their laurels and going to do nothing, I think they have got money on the table that's burning -- it's already being spent, so I don't think that they are going to lollygag around. So, I don't think that we need to put that in there. And I don't think -- yeah. And, then, get rid of the written permission for private property. Cavener: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Cavener. Cavener: Question for Council Member Milam. If you would yield to a question; right? Your comment about timing, I didn't -- that didn't quite connect with me. You don't want to establish a minimum time that they have to be out by? Milam: Sorry. Yeah. So, there is no -- like -- I'm trying to think of how it -- how it was phrased. It was -- Councilman Palmer brought this up that it would be -- it would have to deploy so many within a certain amount of time. De Weerd: And certainly if you did it through an RFP or RFQ process, that could be one of the things is what is the timeframe you would deploy the program. Milam: Right. Cavener: Madam Mayor? Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 33 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 25 of 84 De Weerd: Mr. Cavener. Cavener: And that -- I guess that was the clarification was not the time that those scooters would be brought out each day -- Milam: Right. Cavener: -- but the timing after a licensee is granted before they would actually deploy in the community. Milam: Yes. Cavener: Does that make sense? Milam: Sorry for the -- Palmer: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Palmer. Palmer: And the reason -- two reasons I was really concerned about that is, one, I didn't want a company who wasn't ready to just buy the spot and, then, sit on it and, then, have the right to be the one to renew it and also I didn't want one entity who is in the business to be able to just form another business and lock them both up and be the sole provider of the service, eliminating competition. So, requiring that they be deployed with -- you know, within whatever time frame -- anytime frame was good enough for me. So, that's why I wanted it added, so that it would have to happen, rather than just sitting on the franchise. And while I'm talking, if I can keep going I guess, because I'm a politician and I only have ten months left, I'm going to keep talking. When it comes -- when it comes to something -- De Weerd: You know, every minute you talk means another taxpayer home is paying for you to pontificate. Palmer: And I would love to shorten these meetings with less -- well, we will not get into that. We don't need to fight today. When it comes to a lot of concerns about the chaos -- so, I -- I teach a Sunday school class of nine year olds. We have got -- one of the kids in my class, because of some health issues, doesn't really have the opportunity to get out in the public a whole lot and -- but was still wanting to get back and participate in our Sunday school class. So, we had an iPad with FaceTimed in so they would be able to join the class and you take an iPad with FaceTime with a friend of theirs they haven't seen in a while and stick in the middle of a room full of nine year olds, there is going to be some chaos for a while. So, after we got through the novelty of there being an iPad with a kid on it on a chair next to them -- so that was over, we were able to have a very effective use of what the intent was there. When we -- when the scooters were deployed in Meridian and nobody knew it was happening and, then, all of a sudden they were there, Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 34 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 26 of 84 we had 100,000 nine year olds out there trying to figure out what they could do with these things and, like the chief has said, it wasn't people -- just people under 18, it was people like myself and Councilman Cavener riding down the sidewalk on Franklin, heading down to Ten Mile, without helmets, figuring out how these things worked and what we could do with them and so I think that -- as the point was brought up after the hundred thousand nine year olds we have in our town have a chance to get out and ride them and realize, okay, these are cool, now, how can I use it as a tool instead of a toy, that we will be able to realize the intent and the idea behind it and I think as was -- as was mentioned that there is hundreds of juicers out there earning an income that there is this major employment opportunity that we are choosing to wait now months so that -- just that we can figure out some regulations on it. We get super excited when, you know, a business wants to expand here that we are like how can we give you some money from tax dollars, so that we can get you to expand or -- or come to Meridian or expand your business in Meridian, when we have got a business from out of state right now that's wanting to provide income instantly to as many people as want to sign up and go do it , there is just so many pluses to this that I feel that it's appropriate to put some level of responsibility on people. In today's world I know that that's a really scary thing and say, okay, if you -- if you're going to break the rules that -- that maybe Lime or anybody else might set up and allow your kids to do this, that you know what they are doing and you pay a little bit of attention and if it's going to be your card that's going to be going on it, that you're ultimately responsible for what your kid's going to do and if you're an adult making the decision to ride these things, if there is a pothole, you need to be able to make the decision of whether you're going to wear a helmet, because the pothole might cause a bad day for you or not, but personal responsibility, business opportunity coming to town, jobs -- I mean let's just get this thing done. De Weerd: Any other questions or comments? Lavey: Madam Mayor. I just recalled something that you guys were discussing or I think Councilman Cavener was addressing the private property -- granting permission on private property -- one of you were. I was on the committee, too, and I think it was kind of a carryover from when the MOU -- in the MOU it said grant permission, private property, and I think it kind of got carried over in the ordinance. I don't have an express opinion on whether it should -- should or should not be in here, I will just let you know, though, that a really kooky criminal trespass law was passed last year with the legislature and it talks about written permission -- if you do not have written permission from the owner, you're automatically committing a trespass. So, I would suggest that we have legal review that to make sure that we are in compliance with that, because it is a really awkward criminal trespassing law that was just -- was just passed this last year. So, perhaps we are required to have that in there and they know that there has been some private property owners that have expressed some -- some concern of what they are going to do if they show up on our property and it's -- it's one thing if it's actual private property and it's another thing if it's actual private property that's doing public business and so that creates confusion as -- as well. So, they can set up their own rules, but, then, they would have to enforce those rules, too. But that's -- those are some thoughts that came to my mind when that was originally brought up. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 35 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 27 of 84 De Weerd: Okay. Mrs. Little Roberts. Little Roberts: Madam Mayor, I agree that we need to do -- go the route of an RFQ or RFP, something. I do not think that just first come first serve is the way to go , because even though we put some sideboards on there that, you know, the chief could say this isn't working and in this company needs to go away. I think that would be a whole lot more difficult than to just do the process right to start with and make a selection based on criteria and so that's probably my biggest issue with this right now. That and I think we do need to take a hard look at geo fencing certain areas. We were just in San Diego and I was amazed how tight they could get the geo fencing to the point that you could park on one side of the street light and not on the other. I mean you really can do some th ings with geo fencing from what I saw to -- to help them not end up in areas where the police have to deal with them. But for the point for us I would definitely say we need to go with an RFQ. Cavener: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Cavener. Cavener: Question maybe for Council Member Milam or Roberts. I'm not opposed to an RFQ. I guess my question for both of you is what are those qualifications that you would be looking for from a vendor? If we are wanting to raise the threshold, great, but what -- what is that? Because I think that it's important if this is the direction we are going to go and we are going to ask staff to now put together an RFP, we have got to provide some real clear ring the bell sideboards about what we are looking for in an RFQ. So, I guess that would be my question for each of you is what is it that you would be looking for. De Weerd: Well, I would ask -- I know that was a recommendation from the committee with the RFP or RFQ process. Was that part of your discussions? Coles: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. It was, but it didn't go very far, because at the direction of Council it wasn't asked for us to explore that. So, I know one of the -- the elements that we were looking for as a committee was whether or not the company had a history of being good actors within the city or could we obtain letters of recommendation from community partners where said company was deployed and operating was one of the things that we discussed , but we didn't go down that road very far, because, again, it hadn't been Council's desire for us to explore that to this point. Milam: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mrs. Milam. Milam: I guess to answer your question, I think that we need to work with our -- our departments and -- and, you know, other city leaders and the -- and the committee that's already been working on this and figure that out. I don't think that's something that we need to decide tonight at this Council meeting. I think deciding to go with an RFQ is Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 36 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 28 of 84 something we decide and, then, we get the right people in the right room and get it put together. De Weerd: And you can set a time that you would want those -- those elements back and I would imagine -- I know Mr. Hopkins had mentioned equipment. Mrs. Little Roberts mentioned the geo fencing and how tight they could get those kind of things . I would imagine those would be some of the elements to that to have a demonstrated ability to do certain things. Cavener: And, Madam Mayor, that may be -- I think that we -- if we are expecting that that is going to remove one or two or three or four different vendors from being able to participate, I don't think that is the appropriate expectation . I think that all the vendors that are out there can do geo fencing. All the vendors that are out there can demonstrate the equipment and -- and, again, my comments a couple weeks ago when we talked about this is anyone who is worth a lick can make themselves look really great in an RFP. Everyone can make themselves look really great on paper and if you have ever hired somebody you have got a stack of resumes, you say, wow, this candidate is going to be great and they show up for the interview and you're like why are we interviewing them -- because they look great on paper and I think that when you're a -- an organization that has millions and billions of dollars invested, you're going to make yourself look really great on paper and so I guess I'm not opposed to it, I just want to have a better sense of the confidence that we are going to get and if it's just to prevent whoever is the first to dial, you know -- it's like -- it's like a radio contest, the first to be caller nine is the one who gets to -- to have a license, I get that piece. So, let's -- let's build a better solution for that, because I don't necessarily think the RFP is going to get us there. I think the chief's got some more comments. De Weerd: And I guess at this point it's who can push the send button the fastest and I'm not sure that that's the right method. Chief . Lavey: Madam Chair, Councilman Cavener -- and -- and I don't disagree with you at all on -- on the RFP, but I guess it goes back and validates, then, maybe some of the other suggestions. A pilot program. A temporary program. And, then, the actual program. The one thing that I do believe that we have done is we have put some teeth in this ordinance that if you're a problem we -- we can revoke your -- your enterprise, your license, but I think it's set up for one year and I don't want to go through chaos for one year and, then, look at -- the license runs for a year. Yeah. So, making sure that we have some sort of -- of clause in there that we can revoke prior to that one year renewal coming up may alleviate the problem with -- with the RFQ. The other thing is -- and I know that this is probably going to be a shock, but we -- we really kind of oppose geo fencing, because why are you going to geo fence one device when you're not geo fencing all the other potentially dangerous devices out there in our parks. The bicycles. To private scooters. The -- the skateboards. You're not controlling any of them , so why would you control one person or one item. So, I understand that's what the Parks Department wanted, but it's a false sense of security. You're only dealing with a few and so we -- we -- we don't look at geo fencing favorably. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 37 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 29 of 84 Milam: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mrs. Milam. Milam: Chief, I guess to that regard, the -- the thought behind that is that, first of all, the way that people acted with the e-scooters when they were deployed, if they would have -- when it's a rental they treat it a little differently than they treat their own. They are less responsible and, you know, maybe go a little faster, be a little bit more reckless, because they don't care. It's just like renting a car, like, oh, I could run RPMs up a little higher, because I don't really care if this car lasts forever. So, it's more about the -- the actions and the attitude of people renting something, as opposed to owning it and also just the sheer volume that will be out there. So, it's not a problem now and so probably by having that in there it's not going to change what's already happening. So, if it's not a problem now it won't be a problem, but by deploying hundreds of scooters into the hands of inexperienced kids who don't care about them, we may end up with a problem. Lavey: Madam Mayor, Councilman Milam, then why are we only protecting the parks? What about the sidewalks? What about the parking lot? What about the schools? What about the neighborhoods? What about the cul-de-sacs? You have that same behavior going on that won't be protected under the geo fencing, yet the parks are. Why just the parks? Milam: I'm not talking about the whole park, I'm only talking about the playground where you have little tiny children playing. So, a two year old is standing in the middle of the roadway and here comes some stupid kid that's going 15 miles an hour on a scooter and the little two year old gets plowed over. I'm only talking about very small areas on the larger playgrounds, just right there to protect the little tiny kids. That's all. Lavey: Madam Mayor, Councilman Milam, I will just explain to you that the problems that we had in the parks were not always near the playgrounds. So, just don't get the false sense of security that if you -- if you ban them around the playgrounds you have taken care of the problem, because we had the scooter races down the middle of the street in Kleiner Park, we had them on the walkways of the parks that weren't anywhere near the playgrounds and so just know that it's only covering one part of the potential problem. Milam: Sure. Lavey: And you can do it, I'm just saying that we are getting this false sense of security and that this problem still exists. Far too often that's what keeps me employed. Palmer: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Palmer. Palmer: So, let's go back and remember how this all got started. We weren't regulating them. We still don't have the law regulating them. We had a company interested in doing Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 38 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 30 of 84 business here. They came to us and said, hey, we want to be a partner, want to work together, what do you want to do. So, we said let's do an MOU. They did it and some of their customers -- again in the -- because we only had a couple days, it was just -- we were a little shocked -- or created a little bit of a shocking situation. De Weerd: Not just a little bit. Palmer: We said, okay, never mind, please stop and they did. Let's find a different way. So, we got people together to figure out this. Here we are with this. And now we are wanting to say, you know, throw it away, let's -- let's go with an RFP. You know, what if we get that and we still don't have the ones that we want, so what if it all means the same two that are -- that are -- that have been the most interested. I mean last tim e we did do an RFP, obviously, it was a different situation, but we had dozens of people who would express interest in participating. We had two applicants. We have only had two ever show up to our meetings. Sure, there is more out there, but I mean we are not -- we can always -- we can change things down the road as we keep learning, that's why we got to the point that we are at, but this is more of a commitment, but it will give us the data that we need to see if more than two days is enough time for something like -- again, the novelty to wear off, things to normalize and see how people use them and make some adjustments down the road if we need to. Or we can just keep saying, no, don't come to town, don't help make more money, don't help people avoid having to drive for shorter distances. I would be just as happy to -- to deny it if that meant we are, then, out of the business and going to let the free market do its thing, but that's, obviously, not going to happen. So, if it takes a little bit of regulations to be able to allow business to do it, then, so be it. Let's do this and get the data we need to , then, make adjustments, rather than trying to solve every possible problem before knowing what they all are. De Weerd: Well, the bottom line to the responsibility of this Council and the policies that you set are -- are outlined in that ordinance seeks to protect and enhance the safety of the streets and sidewalks, pedestrians, cars and shared vehicles to facilitate transportation options -- and I'm paraphrasing. Three. To establish clarity and regulations for operators, users and citizens for their safety and to balance oversight and staff time. So, what you do is important and I think, too, that, number one -- and we have always talked about this. Number one, responsibility for the city is to provide a safe city, a safe atmosphere. If it takes a few extra steps to make sure that you're going to roll out a program that can be successful and that can prove itself and the data, then, do it right the first time. We didn't do it right the first time. We have an opportunity to rebuild the trust and to make a program that offers an alternative successful in the citizens' minds and opinions and that's equally important. So, any extra thought that goes into this is doing your job and I think that all of you take that responsibility seriously. I -- I'm not saying that you're not, but we would like to see that this is done well. Lavey: Madam Mayor, I will just point out, I guess, is we are not opposed to going forward the way it is, but we just want to make sure that there is some revocation and process that we don't have to wait 365 days to take care of the problem, because we are going to know, after it normalizes, what -- what the problems are. So, you know, the decision Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 39 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 31 of 84 ultimately rests with you. We do have to -- we have done everything that we can without looking into a crystal ball and finding out what's going to happen in future and so now we have set the community expectations, we have set the expectations on the vendors, at least two that expressed interest, now we have to wait see what they are going to do, but I don't want to wait for 365 days before we decide that we are going to renew or not renew the license in case it goes bad again. Bernt: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Bernt. Bernt: Chief, I appreciate your comments. I really do. If there is anyone that knows and as -- you know, I don't think there is anyone out there has a greater concern about this process more than you and your team. So, I take your -- your guidance, your advice very seriously, but given the fact of the safety issue and what we are talking about this evening, is there -- is there one thing that -- that we are missing in regard to safety that we can be including in this -- in this ordinance? Are we missing something, in your opinion? Lavey: Madam Mayor, Councilman Bernt, I don't believe you're missing something. There is -- there is just the one thing that we all want that we can't control and that is proper human behavior, proper responsibility and that is out of our control. If we could sit there and tell every single person to do this and do it right, then , you wouldn't need us and so, really, that's -- that's the concern is -- is how do you ensure people are taking that first personal responsibility -- that responsibility for their kids and doing what's right. We have tried to write an ordinance that would involve very little of staff time for both the police department, code enforcement, for C.Jay's office, the clerk's office, the Mayor's office, but we would be naive to think that we are not going to get complaints, we aren't going to get calls. We are. But we are doing our best to try to minimize those. But the things that are going to still create issues for us we can't control and that's the personal responsibility of each individual person that gets on that device. But that's -- same thing goes for anybody who is on a bicycle or anybody that's on a private scooter, it's the same thing and so I see all the dilemmas here and we can do the what if's, what if's, what if's and -- and I guess we are to the point where either we push forward on it or we don't do it. It -- it's pretty much that simple. I just want to make sure , though, that we don't feel that we are going to burden ourselves for a long period of time if this becomes another nightmare, because it won't be just one company this time , it will be two. Palmer: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Palmer. Palmer: And I was just reading a little bit from the ordinance under the revocation, it says: In addition to any and all applicable civil or criminal penalties, the city clerk or designee may revoke a City of Meridian vehicle sharing program operator franchise where -- and, then, under the sixth item it says the chief of police communicates to the city clerk a written finding that the franchisee has demonstrated a pattern of actions or practices that Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 40 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 32 of 84 present or could foreseeably present a threat to public health, comma, safety, comma, or welfare as such finding may be substantiated by complaint received by city and/or government agency, responses by city employees or agents or incidents involving shared vehicles and/or other evidence or information. So, from that we have the revocation ability when -- like you said, we can't control what the customers are going to end up doing, just like someone's driving a car, whether they rented it, bought it, any situation, we are going to have problems with people driving cars, bicycles, scooters, these -- walking. Any situation where it's going to run into these issues, but we have the ability to revoke it if the franchisee -- if the person providing it is the cause of the problem. So , with that I move that we close the public hearing on Item 9-A. Milam: Second. De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. All those in favor say aye. Okay. All ayes. MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT. Palmer: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Palmer. Palmer: I move that we approve ordinance number 19-1809 and adjust the parking language to match the intent of the committee with regard to the private -- private property and the parking situation. Does that cover what you need or do you need me to explain -- break it out better? Nary: If I could just ask Council Member Palmer -- are you referring to 7-2-2 subsection (f)(6)(7) and delete the word written? Palmer: Correct. Yes. Nary: That's what I thought you said. Palmer: Okay. De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion. Do I have a second? Cavener: Second. De Weerd: I have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Cavener: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Cavener. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 41 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 33 of 84 Cavener: I guess I don't know which way we are going to go. I have really wrestled with this issue, way more than I thought I would have been a year ago. I went from being I think probably the biggest proponent and cheerleader for scooters in Meridian to being frustrated with the way things were rolled out and I have heard from a lot of our citizens, some who were in favor, many who aren't. The Mayor's survey shows there is a lot of folks that aren't supportive of that and I have wondered is it because of the poor roll out of the experience. Is it they are against scooters or are they against the way it was rolled out. I don't know. I don't have time to talk to 800 people. But I'm sure some of them are frustrated with the way things were rolled out. So, I have went back and forth about do we say no to scooters because the way one company rolled things out initially? And I don't think that I'm there. You know, when we began this process we heard loud and clear from the chief, who wasn't necessarily there, he was opposed to it and now I don't think he's going to be a cheerleader, but what I really appreciate and applaud is his critical feedback to us and making sure that as chief of police, the person who is most in charge of the health and safety of our community, that if he feels there is a concern, we have got real teeth to make a change and, you know, if -- if this body wants to go forth with an RFP I will support that as well. I don't think that it's necessary, quite frankly, but I -- if that's the way this group wants to go I support it, but as there is a motion before us, I'm supportive of that one as well and believe that if the rollout is bad, if companies are not good actors, that the chief or the city will have the authority to remove them or replace them with someone else. We talked about this at the very beginning, carrot and the stick. We have got some fairly large sticks that if a company isn't operating they are not going to be in business anymore. It's a privilege to be here and we expect that those that want to be licensees are going to really embrace that privilege that we are providing them. So, I'm supportive of it. Bernt: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bernt. Bernt: I believe the chief may have went over his three minute time slot earlier. Cavener: Three or four times. Bernt: All kidding aside, I -- you know, I'm in the same boat as Mr. Cavener in this. I have waffled, I have flipped back and forth, I have -- I have been -- I have talked to people -- certainly not 800 people, but I have talked to people. I have looked at different comments online, social media, and, honestly, most of those -- most of those comments have been negative. I really agree with what the Mayor said earlier in regard to we -- whether it's land use that we talk about or whether it's scooters in -- in -- in regard to this particular ordinance, we have one chance to get it right and I would be in favor of just maybe throwing this back to the committee just to just discuss the roll out, because it seems like that is the common concern that the members of his body have , just to make sure that they have dotted every I and crossed every T that maybe they have -- maybe they didn't quite discuss that issue enough, because it's not -- they didn't receive that directive from us, but I would -- I wouldn't be opposed to just having them discuss this, you know, one Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 42 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 34 of 84 more time just to make sure that this is the right rollout and -- and we are doing it in the proper fashion, in the most prudent way. I think we are covered in regard to relocation. Yo u know, if there is someone out there that's a bad actor, I believe that we have enough teeth in this ordinance to be able to take care of them and to get rid of the bad actor. And, furthermore, if -- if -- you know, if we have to make, you know, some amendments to this ordinance in the future because of , you know, different problems that we have experienced through recommendations from our good chief and his good team , then, maybe we can have those discussions at a later date. But my concern is with the rollout, making sure that we are getting the right people involved. I get the free market aspect of that Mr. Palmer pushes and I respect that a lot , but -- so, without talking more and more and more, those are my -- those are my -- those are my thoughts. De Weerd: Okay. Mrs. Little Roberts. Little Roberts: Madam Mayor. I still think the best way to go is an RFQ or an RFP and so with this I won't support this motion and I think one of the reasons is we saw, I believe, five different types of scooters with five different types of software, so they were definitely not all created equal and maybe they have the type of software they could use , but they weren't using it and so I think we really could put some good sideboards on wh at is required for the operator to require filling out to the -- that's got the maximum information on the rider, so this could be used -- you know, just more data at this point I think is good. Plus it puts more sideboards on if they need to revoke a rider. Milam: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mrs. Milam. Milam: Yeah. I'm -- I have already said it, but I just think it's really important that we get this done right, instead of right now and pushing this through is just getting it done right now and I am in favor of the -- the e-scooters, I just don't think that first come, first serve is doing it right. So -- De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Any other comment? Mr. Clerk, will you call roll. Thank Roll call: Borton, absent; Milam, nay; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, nay; Bernt, nay. De Weerd: Okay. The motion did not pass. MOTION FAILED: TWO AYES. THREE NAYS. ONE ABSENT. De Weerd: Council, certainly we could send this back to the committee as -- as was mentioned and if you have specific items that you would want them to bring back to help frame the discussion in terms of -- if you were to approach this through an RFP or RFQ process what would be the criteria and -- in rating that and/or, second, as Mr. Bernt had mentioned, any additional thoughts on how to roll it out so you do have a successful Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 43 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 35 of 84 rollout. I don't think there is any question among the Council members that this is not a program that is interested in having the opportunity to see how it does offer an alternative transportation option to citizens to get from point A to point B , but how can we minimize the -- the negative experience. Milam: Madam Mayor? Maybe it's a good idea for Councilman to -- I'm looking at you. To be part of the committee to kind of help and give that insight. I think for me one of the most important things is history and service an d -- and relationships with cities and, you know, I know that's hard to put on paper and it's going to include references and -- and it's going to include a little bit of time for us looking into other experiences that -- that other cities have had with a particular supplier. So, I think that -- and, then, I want to make sure that we don't make our requirements so stringent that it's picking somebody before they even start. I want to make sure that it's broad enough that all of the companies that are out there that are interested would qualify to be part of the process and those are the main things. But it may be somebody getting -- getting one of us on the committee can get that -- the other thing is I want to make sure that it doesn't -- spring is coming, so time is of the essence, so I say we don't get -- don't push this through, but it is important to get this done. De Weerd: Okay. Fortunately, you're not a member of the public, because we closed the public hearing. Lavey: I know. Madam Chair, I was just going to say that to defer to counsel -- to legal counsel, because if a Council member is on there, then, you lose your vote probably to here. So, you might want to rethink that. De Weerd: No, I think -- I think in the ordinance realm and certainly land use, but not in -- in policymaking. Mr. Nary. Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, that wouldn't preclude that. This is a legislative action. So, having one Council member to be a member would not prevent them from voting on it later. Lavey: And, then, the other thing is is that there is legal statutes on RF Ps, RFQs that dictates time limits or time. So, it's going to -- if you do that route it's going to drag out, because you have to post it, it has to be legally posted, and it will be well past spring if you're going to do that, because you have to come up with the criteria, then , you have to post it, then, you have to have your team and it has to be evaluated -- De Weerd: We can ask the clerk on what kind of a timeline that that potentially could -- Lavey: So, it's going to push it out way into spring. De Weerd: Mr. Coles. Lavey: Just thought I would let you know that. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 44 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 36 of 84 Coles: I don't have the RFQ and RFP timelines memorized, since we don't issue very many of them. I think it's at least 30 days, if I am not mistaken, but I would have to consult the statute on that. Lavey: So, the staff time to actually -- Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, for a majority of these types that we were doing -- and from what I have heard in the Council's discussion, you weren't looking necessarily for an exclusive franchise, but simply set reasonable criteria of what you as a City Council would want any franchisee to meet and having -- and I guess -- I guess the value -- and maybe -- maybe we haven't made it as clear from the committee standpoint -- the value is some of the issues and concerns that you all have raised at least can be evaluated from the company's perspective of what they would be willing to do and, then, hold them to that. Right now in a licensing situation they simply could tell us this is what we will do, which is fairly minimal, and so the RFP gives you some of that ability. But you are looking at at least 60 days before you would award that. So, there is some timing and, again, the franchisee also has requirements, too, and I, like Mr. Coles, I can't remember the -- the amount of time, but I would -- I would say you're looking at a 60 day window, but we are in the middle of February, so that's the middle of April. So, I mean if you think May 1 we may have this awarded, that's certainly not an unrealistic expectation. Bernt: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bernt. Bernt: And I'm not saying that I'm in support of a n RFQ process or -- I just want -- I just would like the committee just to talk -- just to talk about -- have a meeting where they could just maybe deliberate on this. I don't know if this is the right setting for us up here to deliberate on whether or not an RFQ process is -- is warranted or not, it's just -- make sure -- but make sure that -- that -- that -- that they have -- that they are making the right recommendation to us to -- to -- on why or why not in an RFQ or even the -- what's in the existing ordinance is what is -- what is recommended. De Weerd: So, Council, maybe what I would suggest is that we can have a committee meet and bring this back next week and what the options could be and what any timelines would be that are associated with that. So , then, you have a clear path forward, regardless of which path you take. Cavener: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Cavener. Cavener: I think to that point I think continuing this a week that, Madam Mayor, if you are willing to have staff get together that's on this committee one last time to review and provide their feedback to us again, that's fine. I just -- I would remind our Council we are here to act, we are here to render decisions and that's -- deliberation is part of the making Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 45 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 37 of 84 of sausage that we do up here and sometimes it is a little clumsy, but that's -- that's what we are hired by the public to do is to render those decisions. So, I will support continuing Item 9-A, public hearing on the proposed vehicle sharing program , to next Tuesday for a -- don't need to continue the reading part, we just need to continue the public hearing; is that correct, Madam Mayor, Mr. Clerk? De Weerd: The public hearing is closed, but, yeah, to continue the Council discussion for Ordinance 19-1809 and if you need to -- I would -- I would recommend actually opening the public hearing, so that you can post it as such. Cavener: Madam Mayor, that's exactly I think where I was heading. So, move we reopen the public hearing for Item 9-A, for 19-1809. Milam: Second. De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to reopen the public hearing for Item 9-A. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT. Cavener: Madam Mayor, I move we continue Item 9-A, the public hearing for proposed vehicle sharing ordinance number 19-1809 to next Tuesday. Bernt: Second. De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to continue this item. If we could also at least make the one cleanup that our City Council -- our city attorney has recommended, so you have a cleaned up ordinance in front of you as well. Milam: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mrs. Milam. Milam: I would like to ask the committee to not only just give us our options, but -- I know you said to stop talking about it, the RFP, because that was -- you were getting the impression that we didn't want that -- go that direction. I would like to -- hopefully you guys have had time to -- we can look at that and, then, advise us if that is the way that you think it should go. If the committee, who has been working on this for a long time, just says we don't think RFP is the way to go, then, I might be open to that, but I want -- I would like to get advisory from the committee that's been working on this. De Weerd: Okay. Cavener: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Cavener. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 46 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 38 of 84 Cavener: Along -- along those lines, what would the question -- what would we be looking for in an RFP that we could not already address in our proposal? To me that's -- what are we -- what are we as the Council gaining by going through the RFP process? What's the most important reason why we would want to look at going through that? What are we going to benefit? De Weerd: Okay. Coles: And Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes. Coles: If I may ask a question, especially of Council Member Bernt. You had brought up the idea of the committee getting together and talking specifically about the rollout and what that might look like, hoping to get perhaps maybe a little bit more direction of your thoughts and ideas on that, so when the committee does come back we are going to meet, we will come back and we can say this is our recommendation on the rollout and what it should look like based on your -- De Weerd: Council, can we get into that detail -- let me first call for the question, that you vote on the motion to continue this, and, then, we will add any specifics on what you would like to see brought back. Okay? So, the motion is to continue Item 9-A until next week. All those in favor say aye. Any opposed say nay. Okay. All ayes. MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT. De Weerd: And any further clarity, Mr. Bernt? Bernt: I just -- I would just like the committee to get together and just talk about the pros and cons of a rollout, whether it's RFP -- the RFP process versus what's been proposed in -- in -- in the existing ordinance that we just voted on and so just have that discussion , maybe brainstorm, you know -- you know, again, positive, negative, what makes sense, what makes sense to the community, what makes sense -- you know. And just in that selection process -- I don't know if I necessarily have, you know, something , you know, that -- in particular I would want to be discussed in that -- in that meeting, but just to make sure that, you know -- that whether it is the RFP or -- or the existing ordinance, that we get it right, that it's the right one and it's what you guys feel comfortable with. Lavey: Madam Mayor, Councilman Bernt, I would just say that in speaking -- I'm on the -- on the committee as well -- is I do believe the company was ready and they brought this forward and so they wouldn't have brought it forward if they didn't think they were ready and so maybe we are -- or me created some of the confusion. So, we will take it as a pause and say are we good to go or should there be something different based upon what you're saying. But the committee wouldn't have brought this forward if they weren't ready to roll out. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 47 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 39 of 84 Bernt: Madam Mayor. I was under the impression that you -- didn't you say, Mr. Clerk, earlier that -- that you didn't discuss this very long, because you thought you did receive that direction from us and it wasn't maybe a point of interest? De Weerd: Yes. Coles: Yes. That was specific to the RFP process. Correct. The committee, again, went through several different options based on the direction of Council, put together this ordinance with what we believe was the direction from Council and we were ready to implement and move forward with the ordinance as in front of you, but specific to the RFP, we didn't go down that road all the way, because it wasn't directed from Council. Bernt: Madam Mayor, follow up. So, maybe -- so, maybe that's the discussion that needs to take place. Does the RFP make sense, yes or no. And if -- and if -- and if it does and, then, maybe we go from there and have , you know, future discussions in regard to that RFP process, but -- and if you guys get together and feel like, amongst your body, that it just doesn't make sense and that you're comfortable and you feel like going forward, that the existing rollout is what's already in the ordinance and we will go from there. I mean at the end of the day it's a week, you know, and I understand, Mr. Palmer's approach is just let's get it done and, you know, my approach is different, I want to make sure that we get it right. I want to make sure that this is -- and if we have to wait a week, then, I don't -- I don't see what -- you know, what the harm is in that. De Weerd: Well, we already are waiting a week, because it's been continued. So, if you -- Palmer: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: -- have any other ideas, can you, please -- Coles: E-mail. De Weerd: -- e-mail Mr. Clerk and give him any additional thoughts, because we need to move on. We have people that are sitting here waiting for other agenda items and so -- Palmer: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Palmer. Palmer: I just want to say that I'm having flashbacks to other times when I have tried really hard to wait one more week or tried to adjust things to make the right decision that were millions of dollars it affects that we needed to get done right away. De Weerd: Okay. I'm moving on. Okay. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 48 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 40 of 84 B. Resolution No. 19-2128: A Resolution Adopting New Fees ` Related To Vehicle Sharing Programs; Authorizing The City Clerk’s Office To Collect Such Fees; And Providing An Effective Date Cavener: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes. Cavener: I would move that we continue Item 9-B, Resolution 19-2128, which is related to fees to the vehicle sharing program. De Weerd: Okay. Item 9-B is Resolution 19-2128 and I have a motion. Do I have a second? Bernt: Second. Little Roberts: Second. De Weerd: I have several seconds. I wish I could get them back again. Any discussion ? Mr. Clerk, will you, please, call role. Roll call: Borton, absent; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea; Bernt, yea. De Weerd: Thank you for your attempt to be efficient. I appreciate that. MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT. C. Public Hearing for Villasport (H-2019-0011) by Sadie Creek Commons, LLC, Located the SW Corner of E. Ustick Rd. and N. Eagle Rd. 1. Request: Council Review of application H-2018-0121 and the Planning and Zoning Commission's requirements related to conditions of approval: a. UDC 11-4-3-2A .1, which requires all outdoor recreation areas and structures that are not fully enclosed to maintain a minimum setback of 100 feet from any abutting residential district; b. UDC 11-3A -13, which requires outdoor speaker systems associated with the use to be located a minimum of 100 feet from all residential districts; Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 49 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 41 of 84 c. UDC 11-4-3-2A .2, which prohibits outdoor event or activity centers from being located within 50 feet of any property line and limits the hours of operation to those between 6:00 am and 11:00 pm; d. Condition #2.2, which limits the hours of operation of the athletic club and spa to the hours between 4:00 am and midnight 12:00 am) for indoor activities and 6:00 am to 11:00 pm for outdoor activities, with outdoor music limited to the hours between 9:00 am and 10:00 pm; e. Condition #2.10, which requires the Applicant to work with Planning Staff and ACHD to create a crosswalk for pedestrian access to the facility from the west parking lot De Weerd: Okay. Item 9-C is a public hearing for H-2019-0011. I will just make a few comments on the process for land use public hearings. Staff will present with background information. The applicant, then, will give the details. They have up to 15 minutes to deliver their project. The public testimony is given three minutes to testify and -- and the process is three minutes. There is a time clock on -- on the screen at the podium, so you will always have an idea of where the clock is. When it hits 3:00 o'clock -- or 3:00 o'clock. When it hits three minutes I will ask that you summarize . And at the end of the public testimony the applicant has the final comment, has an opportunity to answer any questions raised during the testimony and answer any additional questions from City Council. The Council will, then, deliberate and close the public hearing and make a decision if they feel they have all the information. With that said I will open this public hearing with staff comments. Allen: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I recommend that you open Item 9-D as well. It's for the same project. It's a development agreement modification that will also be affected by -- De Weerd: Okay. Thank you, Sonya. I will. I will open the public hearing for H-2018- 0121 as well. Allen: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. I'm not sure if you would like me to go into the City Council review request or if you would rather have the applicant cover it. I'm happy to do either one. De Weerd: I think it would be helpful that you do and -- and Council can ask any follow- up questions to the applicant. Allen: All right. So, the City Council review is the Commission's decision on the conditional use permit for VillaSport. It was a conditional use permit for an indoor- outdoor Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 50 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 42 of 84 arts, entertainment and recreation facility and spa in the C-G zoning district, with extended hours of operation. It was approved -- the conditional use permit was required solely for the hours of operation and it was approved contingent upon Council's approval of the development agreement modifications before you tonight. So, there were five items that the applicant is requesting consideration on and I will go through each one of those quickly. In condition number 2.1A, the condition was all outdoor recreation areas and structures that are not fully enclosed shall maintain a minimum setback of one hundred feet from any abutting residential district as set forth in UDC 11-4-3-2A1. The -- the commission interpreted the setback measurement to be from any residential property line with a home, rather than from a residential district. The reason being in this particular case the residential district, if you can see here to the south, actually goes across the street along the north boundary here and -- and there is a common area that the residential district also encompasses. So, the residential district in this case stretches a little further than it would typically to the center line of the street. The applicant is requesting further modification of that, though. They are requesting -- the hundred feet is measured from the residential structure, rather than residential district. So, that is the first item and that is out of the specific use standards for the use in the UDC. The next one is item -- condition number 2.1C. The condition reads: If an outdoor speaker system is proposed, the location of such shall be depicted on the plans at least one hundred feet from all residential districts, unless waived through approval of a conditional use permit per UDC 11-3A-13. The applicant is requesting a waiver from this standard, as allowed by the UDC through a conditional use permit. The Commission did not act on this at the Commission hearing, because this was not a request at that time. So , as I said, the applicant is requesting a waiver of this condition. In the alternative of a waiver the applicant is requesting the one hundred feet is interpreted to be from a residential structure, not residential districts. Next, condition number 2.1D, the outdoor event or activity center, which includes, but is not limited to swimming pools, shall not be located within 50 feet of any property line and shall operate only between the hours of 6:00 a.m. and 11:00 p.m. as set forth in UDC 11-4-3-2A2. The applicant is requesting earlier hours of operation of 5:00 a.m., instead of 6:00 a.m. for outdoor activities, Monday through Friday seasonally and waiver of the 50 foot setback requirement. In this case the UDC does not allow a waiver of the setback standard. Just to -- just a couple notes. The southern swimming pool -- actually I could get the site plat up here. This drawing here in your lower right-hand corner is the current concept plan. It's a little hard to see. There is a swimming pool here and here. The southern sw imming pool is located approximately 70 feet from the property line, but the lounge area around the pool is approximately 20 feet from the property line and that is this area right here. With approval of a property boundary adjustment that's currently in process, the northern swimming pool area will not be within 50 feet of the property line. Condition number 2.2, the hours of operation of the athletic club and spa are limited to the hours between 4:00 a.m. and 10:00 p.m. -- excuse me -- 10:00 a. -- excuse me -- 10:00 p.m. and 12:00 a.m. Or it's a typo. For indoor activities and 6:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. for outdoor activities with outdoor music limited to the hours between 9:00 a.m. and 10:00 p.m. as approved with this application. The applicant is requesting earlier hours of operation, as I previously stated, for outdoor activities from 5:00 a.m. instead of 6:00 a.m. and that's Monday through Friday seasonally, condition number 2.1D. And there was substantial discussion about the hours Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 51 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 43 of 84 of operation at the Commission. And, finally, condition number 2.10, the applicant shall work with the planning staff and ACHD to create a crosswalk for pedestrian access to the facility from the west parking lot and that is this area right over here. Folks have to cross Centrepoint Way right here to access the site. The applicant is requesting the following text is added to that permission: If permitted by ACHD. In the event ACHD will not allow the crosswalk and staff is amenable to this change. So, I'm not sure if you want me to go into the development agreement modification at this time or if you want to take any testimony on the -- on the conditional -- on that Council review from the applicant and ask any questions you might have. What would be the best option. Cavener: What's your preference? Seeing head nods, which I think you can go ahead and continue, Sonya. Allen: Would you like me to continue with the development agreement modification request? Cavener: I'm assuming the heads nodding -- okay? Is that yes? Allen: All right. Milam: I want to hear from the applicant. Cavener: Oh, you want to hear from the applicant now? Okay. When everyone nods heads when I'm doing this for the first time, you got to give me a little more direction. Okay. We got to get through this together. All right. Thank you, Son ya. We will hear public testimony. Unless -- does anyone have any questions for staff at this point? Okay. The applicant. Allen: In the absence of the Mayor, I would make a recommendation that Council not act on the Council review until they hear the development agreement modification request and act on them both together. Thank you. Tamara, while this is booting up if you want to get the logistics out of your way, introduce yourself and your address and, then, the time is yours. Thompson: Absolutely. Are you Mr. President? Cavener: I am. God help us all. Thompson: Mr. President, Members of the Council, Tamara Thompson. I'm with The Land Group at 462 East Shore Drive in Eagle. Tonight I'm representing the property owner and they are with me tonight. Mr. Randy Black, Junior, is here, and, then, I have a representative from VillaSport here as well. So, we are prepared to answer all your questions. So, to start I think before we get into all those specifics, I think it's good to give you an introduction of where we are and what the project is and the extenuating circumstances for the request for the Council review. The property is on the southwest corner of Eagle and Ustick. It's outlined in blue. So, I want to highlight that it's not -- it Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 52 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 44 of 84 does not exclude the 3.5 acre corner. The existing development agreement does include that corner, so we are requesting to be taken out of that development agreement and have a new development agreement just for the properties in blue. It's important to note that this is the fifth busiest intersection in the state of Idaho. That was -- that was an interesting fact that I came up -- that I found. The Milk Lateral bisects the property and it's pretty much on this existing property line right there. It's -- the staff report mentions that it runs along the -- the east and the north property lines and, then, in fact, bisects the property. The Milk Lateral is currently being tiled, if you have driven by there in the last week or two, and we are under a short timeline with the irrigation district in that that work has to be done before March 15th. So, we had to get that work started. And, then, the site is bounded on the north by Ustick Road and on the east by Eagle Road and, then, it has Centrepoint Way that runs on the western portion of it. Just real quick on this. I want to point out a couple cross-accesses. Cajun -- North Cajun Lane has a road here that will -- that has a sign there to be extended in the future and we do have a cross-access with that development to the south already in place and, then, there is three access points on Ustick Road and those align with the accesses on the north side of Ustick. So, you have got the Centrepoint Way light and you have the two -- the two accesses on -- on Ustick and I will point out we are going -- we will be proposing some modifications to those once I show you the site plan. Here is a quick snip of the future land use map . The property is -- has a future land use map designation of mixed use regional and the property is currently zoned C-G. The C-G zone is the largest scale and broadest mix of retail, office, service and light industrial uses and I bring this up , because that is what's in the current development agreement, so what we could be proposing here could be much more intense as far as delivery vehicles and loading facilities. This is the existing development agreement concept plan and it was approved for -- and you can see here it included the hard corner and it has 150,282 square feet. This is -- the property has a 15 year history of prior entitlements. It was annexed in 2004 with a development agreement for 36 acres. In 2005 it was split off for just this 15 acres and this is the most current concept plan, although you did see something in 2013 that you approved , that development agreement wasn't ever signed and, therefore, it has expired. That approval was expired. So, just to give you some site conditions. Obviously, I didn't take these today. This is at North Cajun Way. So, where the cross-access is closest to Jimmy John's, there is this -- what you can see, this says road to be extended in the future and the -- this project -- or the retail portion was entitled prior to the residential, but it is, obviously, going second, but it's kind of a happy coincidence, because we have a nice big landscape buffer there where these trees have grown up considerably. So, there is an existing wood fence on the property line and mature trees. So, that was looking west. This is looking west, but down Picard Lane. So, I'm just a little bit further to the south and, then, you can see here these -- the fence and the mature trees and this is on Picard, but it is looking west and on the corner where Centrepoint comes in there is a big open space in that area and, then, the trees running down there and one thing to note is none of the homes on Picard face Picard. It's all side yards on those locations. And, then, this is a little bit further to the north looking at that wall and the homes behind and, then, looking at Kohl's off to the north and some of the constraints we have on the site -- Idaho Power recently -- it was within the last 18 months -- I call it a mini substation. I don't know what they call it. But it is a considerable box that they put on -- on the street frontage. So, we have power lines and this little mini substation Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 53 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 45 of 84 that is on Ustick Road. And VillaSports. I'm going to -- I will give you just a brief overview of what VillaSport is. It's -- it's an amazing community amenity that the City of Meridian -- they only have a few and I'm going to turn it over to Mike to give you all the specifics and we have a bunch of pictures here, but it's a -- it's an athletic club with both indoor and outdoor recreation, including a cafe, there is a pool bar for the outside. There is an adults only area. There is a spa offering massage, facials, manicures, pedicures. They have child care. Kids camps. Swimming pools. Water slides. Whirlpools. Play area. Outdoor turf fields. And, Mike, if you want to come up. This is Mike Fassler, he is with VillaSport and he's going to give you some more specifics to -- to the use. Cavener: Thanks, Tamara. Good evening, Mike. Thanks for joining us. Fassler: Good evening, Mr. President and Council Members. Thank you for having me. Cavener: Mike, just for the record, can you introduce yourself and give us your address. Fassler: Yes. My name is Michael Fassler and my address is 150 Pelican Way, San Rafael, California. Cavener: Okay. Thank you. Fassler: Thank you. I'm here representing VillaSport, Athletic Clubs and Spa, and VillaSports is very excited to have the opportunity to bring a VillaSport Club to Meridian, Idaho. VillaSport Athletics Club and Spa is a family-owned and family-operated business. We currently own and operate five clubs. The first club being Colorado Springs in 2006. There is two clubs in the Houston, Texas, area. There is one club in Beaverton, Oregon, and the most recent club was in San Jose, California. It opened up in March of last year. We also have two clubs under construction, in Roseville California, and Katy, Texas, VillaSport is a new product that hasn't been seen in this area. It's more than just traditional fitness club, it's more of a resort-like experience, focusing on families. The vast majority of our memberships are family memberships. I kind of want to take you through and give you some shots kind of looking at what the VillaSport Club looks like. These are very different than what you have seen before. They are 90,000 square foot plus clubs. We have been working on the prototype for -- since 2006 and the last two clubs have been using the same prototype, which is being used in the two under construction as well. So, this shows you the indoor swimming pool. There is also an indoor whirlpool -- indoor- outdoor whirlpool, actually, which kids love, especially in times like this where it's snowing outsides. Great amenity to have. And our focus is definitely families. Here you see some age groups practicing and there is also water slides and kids amenities outside in the aquatic center. This is a large aquatics center facility that we build. There is two swimming pools, there is several whirlpools. Part of it is an adult only section and that's what you see on the left in the picture. You see that's limited -- it's 18 and up in that area. And, then, you have got the recreational pool to the right . There is water slides and kids play -- play apparatus as well. And, again, more shots just showing the fact it is a family -- it's kind of -- it's kind of a resort like experience down the street from your house and it reaches out to families. There is also a spa that we have that we are very excited about. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 54 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 46 of 84 It offers full spa services and it's open to the public, as well as for members. Just some more shots. This is the executive lock -- this is the executive locker. MCC's high end facility. It's -- you can lounge, watch a football game, and just kind of enjoy, read -- read a magazine while you're -- while you're in the locker room. There is also even TVs inside the steam rooms and sauna. Milam: Oh, that's cool. Fassler: So, it's -- it's interesting. Yeah. And we also have over 120 cardio equipment apparatus as well. We offer over 180 Group X classes each week at our facilities and all different types. So, it's not just be -- you know, you're not just sitting by the pool and relaxing, you're also having the opportunity to get in fitness. The athletic club portion of the facility. And we also have a full NBA size gymnasium and also a kids gymnasium, which is separate, focusing on Villa Kids program, which we are very proud of. Villa Kids is for children aged six weeks to 12 years old and includes competitive intramural leagues for kids and for adults and, again, more of the Group X, focusing on classes. Again, 180 classes. We offer -- there is five different Group X studios. So, there is kind of something for everybody. And Villa Kids -- Villa Kids is about 12,000 indoor-outdoor square feet dedicated just to children. We are very proud of this. It's a high end facility. These kids go through rotationals. There is five different rotations they will go through for about 25 minutes each and one will be an art studio and one will to be a dance studio. One will be just for playing outside on foursquare. Another one will be, you know, in the gymnasium doing different activities. Competitive activities. This shows you a little bit more of the Villa Kids program. And, then, the concept is that -- that you leave the kid in the Villa Kids program for a couple hours a day and mom and dad can go workout, they can go sit by the pool and get some time to themselves and it works out well. The kids actually bring the adults -- often bring their parents to the club. One of the other things we offer is a cafe. So, this is the -- the indoor cafe with an outdoor seating area right next to it. Offers meals, snacks, smoothies, coffees. There is wine and beer, full -- full bar. It's the one by the pool. So, there is an outdoor grill by the pool as well. And the pool area is for -- for the Idaho location -- for Meridian would be seasonal, so it's not a year round -- it's not a year around facility. And here is just the different community events that we offer, kind of showing you. So, there is -- there is breakfast with Santa. There is a great egg hunt. We offer daddy-daughter dances. We do a lot of community activities. There is -- as well as a public school open house. It's a -- it's a -- it's a chance or forum for people from public and private schools to explain what their school offers and educate parents and it's open to the public as well. The public school forum -- or the school forum. And this just gives you a sense of sort of the elevations of what our prototype club is. As you can see it's about the -- the canopy goes up to about 48 feet . Most clubs 36 feet tall. It's on two levels. The first floor is about 58,000 square feet. Second floor is about 32,000 square feet. The Group X rooms are all upstairs and mostly downstairs is the cafe, spa, the locker rooms. In addition to men's and women's locker rooms there is actually a large family locker room as well, which is great -- great for the kids and the family. And just more of kind of elevations. What it looks like. And, then, this explains the floor layout and I kind of wanted to talk a little bit about that, to explain sort of the different uses that we have. So, I talked about the family. There is a family locker room. There is the spa right Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 55 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 47 of 84 in the middle. And there is men's lock -- there is a woman's locker room and the men's locker room. This is all the Villa Kids area right here. So, that's all dedicated to kids. There is the kids gymnasium. There is the NBA size gymnasium. There is the indoor swimming pools. So, there is an indoor swimming pool, an indoor lap pool, excuse me, and there is an indoor recreational pool and, then, there is also an outdoor recreation pool and outdoor adults only lap pool and this shows you -- I think it came up earlier. So, that's the rec pool outside. This is the lap pool. And it's an 18 and over area. The grill would be over here. Adults only area. And there is one over here. This will be the turf area. This is where people can kind of play -- can do things on their own. Do some -- do some activities. And -- let's see. I just want to talk about -- we looked at -- this is the site plan. So, we looked at set -- four months we spent trying to program this. We are constrained by not just the access points, but also by the Milk Lateral that -- that Tamara referred to earlier. So, we can't build over the top of it. So, this is our prototype . This is what works. This is what's proven. We have used it now in two locations and two more under construction. So, we are -- we are sure that the members appreciate it and it works for us and for them. One of the things I want to talk about a little bit is this is a major construction project that we are bringing to Meridian. This is over 9,000 square feet of construction, plus an additional 47,000 square feet outdoor pool space and it's also going to have an economic impact beyond just the construction -- giving jobs for construction, it is also going to create 200 -- more than 250 new jobs for Meridian. So, we are very proud of that fact as well that we are bringing that to the community and we are also bringing this community -- community amenity that folks and families and people can appreciate. So, I'm happy to answer any other questions, but thank you again for your time. I'll send it back to Tamara. Cavener: Sorry, Tamara. Do you have a question? Thompson: Mr. President, since we are addressing two different items, I'm just asking for a little bit more time. Cavener: That's fine. Thompson: Thank you. Cavener: And just for the -- for the benefit of the public, this agenda is a little bit different in that we have got kind of two agenda items that kind of pertain to the same project . So, typically, staff provides us some comments, the applicant provides their comments, then, we open up the public hearing. What we are going to do in this instance -- we will give the applicant a couple more minutes to address the second piece . We will have staff address the second agenda item. And, then, we will open up the public hearing for everyone to be able to provide comments moving forward. So, Tamara, please, continue. Thompson: Thank you, Mr. President. So, to just walk you through the site plan a little bit, since this is the first you have seen this colored plan, what I was showing you before with the accesses on Ustick Road, the accesses on Ustick were installed and constructed with ACHD when they did the intersection improvements about ten years ago. They Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 56 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 48 of 84 aligned those exactly across from each othe r at the time, but now there is -- the traffic is such that there is a median along Ustick anyway, so those don't have to align anymore. There is no left turns on Ustick Road. So, we have worked with the property owner on the corner and you will see that it used to be -- it used to align right here. So, we had one access that was on the corner property and one access that was on this property and we are working with them to put this to close both of those and to have one combined access that would go -- to split the property line and we do have a traffic study and submitted that to ACHD back in July and ACHD is in supportive of this. They do want a right turn pocket here and they like that this gets moved a little bit further back from the inters ection and -- and -- and, again, this is just right-in -- right-in, right-out only and left turns would be here and, then, there is cross-access that we have that would get us to Eagle Road down at this location. So, that's the access and the cross-access and, then, we will have some cross-access to that corner for -- for any items there. So, to walk you through the -- the various items that we have for the dimensions that -- that were mentioned by Sonya on -- for our Council review. So, those exact items are listed in the staff report for the DA mod as well. So, to -- I will just bring those up for here. So, of the -- of the conditions of approval, the first one deals with the -- that we are talking about is -- well, actually, I will just go through the way it makes more sense. The outdoor recreation area, to maintain a minimum setback of a hundred feet from a residential district. So, where -- where we have the outdoor activity center with the pool, this was strategically placed with the adults only area. So, this is the spa area, 18 and over, and at this location there is an existing fence, mature landscaping, and, then, you have got an open space and, then, you have a public road. So, the -- the way the ordinance reads is it's a setback from a residential district and that district is the property line. So, Planning and Zoning Commission agreed that we -- that that setback could be measured to the residential property line and we were asking for structure, but I guess it depends on where you take the measurement from. So, we are fine with that as approved by Planning and Zoning and you can see right here from the edge of the pool to the property in line is a hundred feet two inches. So, mainly we just want to be transparent here . I wanted to walk you through everything to make sure you're comfortable with it and that way do you have it out and , then, again, the exact same conditions. They are numbered differently, but they are in the DA mod staff report as well. So, that is one. The second one is the outdoor speakers and those being a minimum distance of one hundred feet from, again, a residential district and we are asking for that same consideration, that the separation be from the residential property line and we will even add to that, that those speakers would be oriented away from the residential uses, so that they are not going towards residences. The third one is prohibiting outdoor event or activity centers from being located within 50 feet of the property line. There is two parts to this. So, we actually -- the pool is actually 24 feet from the property line. But, again, if we take and go to the residential zone -- I'm sorry, not zone, but the residential property line, then, we, again, are -- the closest location would be one hundred feet. The fourth one. I'm sorry. The second part of that limits the hours of operation between 5:00 a.m. and 11:00 p.m. The -- I'm sorry. 6:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. We are requesting 5:00 a.m. for this -- this area only. They have members that like to swim in the morning in the summers. They are adults. They have a swim team that uses the indoor lap pool and so they are just looking for 5:00 a.m. for the lap pool only. Speakers would not be used during that time. We have a different condition of approval Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 57 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 49 of 84 for speakers, which go to -- don't start until 9:00 a.m. D limits the hours of operation. This is similar to the other and, again, we are asking for 5:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. for outdoor activities, Monday through Friday. And, again, this would be seasonally, because the pool isn't open all year long. Saturdays and Sundays would -- would be the later. We could agree to that. They just have a swim team that meets at 5 :00 a.m. on Monday through Friday. And, lastly, the condition for the walk -- the crosswalk. We wholeheartedly support that crosswalk there and ACHD is currently saying they -- they would not support a crosswalk at that location, so we are happy to work with the city, we just wanted to add some language to that saying, you know, there is only so much we can do and if ACHD allows it. But between us and the city we are hopeful that we can get that approved and just wanted to -- actually, I will get into that a little later when I do the rebuttal, so with that I will stand for questions. Cavener: Thanks, Tamara. Council, questions for the applicant? Shall we turn it back over to Sonya? Are you ready to close the loop for us? Allen: Yes, sir. Cavener: Thank you. Appreciate everyone's patience. Allen: So, a little backwards. Sorry, guys. So, the development agreement modification request. So, the overall property consists of 11.39 acres of land and, again, it's zoned C-G. The property was annexed in 2005 with a development agreement. It was part of the Sadie Creek Commons development. The previously approved concept plan was for a mixed use development consisting of 150,000 square feet of commercial , retail, restaurant and office uses on 15.33 acres of land. Three accesses were appro ved via Ustick Road and one right-in, right-out was approved via Eagle Road. So, I was just going to use the applicant's concept plan here, because it was a little better than mine. So, this is the one that's currently included in the development agreement. The provisions in the current development agreement pertain to this development plan and is applicable to the subject property, as well as to the out parcel at the northeast corner of this site and that was this area right here. Again, the Comprehensive Plan future land use map designation for this property is mixed use regional. The development agreement modification proposes to remove the subject property from the terms of the existing development agreement and enter into a new development agreement for the proposed development and site. And, then, the existing development agreement would still remain for that out parcel at the corner here that I mentioned. I will see if the applicant has a concept plan I can use. The proposed development. They had a nice color one here that was a lot more legible than the one I had as well. Bear with me here. There we go. So , the new concept plan and building elevations are proposed with the subject application that demonstrate how the property is now proposed to develop. The new plan proposes a 99,000 square foot two story building for an athletic club and spa and a 15,300 square foot retail building. Again, the retail building was this pad right over here on Eagle Road. Associated parking for the proposed uses is also depicted . Access is proposed via Centrepoint Way along the project's west boundary and from the south from Cajun Lane. An access is also proposed via Ustick Road, an arterial street, which the UDC -- that UDC restricts access Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 58 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 50 of 84 to arterial streets, so it does require Council approval of a waiver to 11-3A3. So, if you could, please, include that in your motion tonight it would be appreciated. Written testimony has been received from a couple neighbors on this application. David D urfee and Steve Grant. They are both against the hours of operation earlier than 6:00 a.m. for the outdoor activity area. Staff is recommending approval of the development agreement modification and just keep in mind on the Council review application that's before you there are associated development agreement provisions that will also need to be included to change if you grant the Council review. Thank you. Staff will stand for any questions. Cavener: Thank you, Sonya. Council, questions for staff? All right. At this point, then, we will go ahead and begin the public hearing. Mr. Coles, do we have anybody signed up to testify? Coles: Thank you, Mr. Vice-President. One. Jeffrey Vrba is signed up to address the Council. Cavener: Please. Mr. Vrba, thank you for joining us tonight. If you could, please, introduce yourself and give us your address and the time is yours. Vrba: Mr. President and Council Members, my name is Jeff Vrba. I live at 3005 North LeBlanc Way. I'm here representing the Jackson Square Homeowners Association and, Mr. President, according to your bylaws I'm allowed to have ten minutes as part of the -- Cavener: You're representing your organization? Vrba: Yes. Thank you. Cavener: Yeah. Vrba: Mr. President and Council Members, the home -- our homeowners association of Jackson Square Subdivision is against this development going in in this location. We are not against the development totally. We like the facility and that, but we feel it's wrong in the location where it's -- they are trying to put it in. There are currently ten to 11 fitness center slash gyms within a one mile radius of this facility. Two right across the street, Gold's Gym and Orange Fitness. We have got a couple down on the corner of Fairview and Eagle Road down there, too. There is three of them right there. And just down on Fairview there is another five to six gyms or fitness centers or athletic training out there. So, we feel -- do we really need another facility in that area? The other thing we are having problems with is the outdoor swimming pool next to our single family homes. Basically, all other outdoor pools that are here in Meridian that are public are not that close to residential areas. The two pools I can think of is the city of -- the city pool and Wahooz. They are both further away than this. But this pool being placed right there they have projected a 25 foot slide right outside of the re, right off the Centrepoint Road. We are going to have kids playing in there screaming and shouting and that's what we are trying to avoid. They are -- they are requesting music to be played in their speakers from 9:00 to 10:00 p.m. at night. I like to go out in my -- my lot and be able to sit there in peace Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 59 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 51 of 84 right now. So, right now we hear some traffic, which is understandable. That's okay. The other part we have problems with -- we want to try to keep it with the original development agreement. Reason being behind that is there was a large place that was right there, but there was also an access road for their delivery trucks to drive between our fence and their building. So, their buildings are going to be pushed further north than what this one is. This one's right on our fenceline. The other thing that we wanted to try to do, too, is with their building being a 35 foot tall building right along the fenceline -- they keep saying two story building. Yeah, it's a two story commercial building, which is equivalent to about a three story house. So, right outside of my window -- I sent you guys some photos earlier on that. Three -- three story tall or 36 feet up I'm going to be blocking everything out that way. TV reception for regular antennas and everything else going up to Bogus Basin is all going to be blocked from that area. Granted, we know that it's slotted for larger buildings if you go there, but they will be pushed further north in that lot and right on the boundary level there. The other thing we were concerned with is the business. All the other businesses in that general area are running regular business hours. They open between 9:00 and 10:00 in the morning and close between 9:00 and 10:00 in the evening. With this building -- with this facility going in there at the corner of Eagle and Ustick, like they mentioned, is the fifth busiest intersection around. If you try to drive through there between 7:00 and 9:00 o'clock in the morning and, again, between 4:00 and 7:00 or 8:00 in the evening it's jam packed, it's busy, you can't get down Ustick Road if you need to get down there and that. That's when a majority of people are going -- going to work. Their facility being there, they mentioned that they want to have the pool opened up early so people who go there and workout before they go to work, what's going to be going on is other people are going to work, they are going home to get changed so they can go to work. That's just going to busy up that intersection more than what it currently is . The other couple things we had some issues with was -- well, the main thing was the traffic there that we were talking about and community events was the other main thing we were concerned with. They are saying they want to have community events -- bring the community into their facility. Every time you have community events going on in the area they are going to be jam packed. Their parking lot is not big enough to hold their people that want to workout in their gyms, want to workout and they are doing their things, and also having to go and have other community going there, which means their guests for their community events are going to be parking in our subdivision , along our roadways, which is limited right now to what we have anyhow, because the houses are more patio type homes. My house -- I have three cars spots that can park in front of my house. I'm the second house in from the corner there, so in that case if I get guests that's got to come over, they are not going to be able to park if it has been filled up. If you compare it to around the Settlers Park, the Village and that when they have community events, there is people parked all over the place blocking people's driveways, blocking access to people's houses, blocking everything else. I know the police department's been out numerous times at other places, they are having to write tickets for blocking driveways and that. We don't want to see that in our subdivision . We are small enough and that that we would like to see it spread out. According to the NextDoor website, which we all follow here, they say we have 462 people living in that little subdivision there with Jackson Square and Centrepoint Square I guess it is right now. Out of that they said the average homeowner is 51 years old. We are done with our kids. Our kids are out. We do not Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 60 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 52 of 84 want to hear screaming kids in the pool area. We bought those houses there knowing there was no school right next door, there was going to be businesses going in where we were not going to hear that type of stuff . We understand when I bought the house that there was going to be delivery trucks in behind making the noise that a standard delivery truck would be. That's what we were expecting, not a pool area where we got music playing all the time and kids playing out there. The other thing was we were looking at the cost of membership. We looked at the -- their -- one of their sites there and to get a family of four in you got to pay a 413 dollar membership fee up front and 275 dollars a month. I could go over to Gold's Gym -- I went and looked on their site. It's only a 149 dollar membership fee and 65 dollars a month. A lot of the other gyms in areas in there -- area are similar to what Gold's Gym is at. That's including the -- YMCA is cheaper than what this one is for a family of four trying to get in there. I don't know about you, but I cannot afford 240 or 275 dollars a month if I want to have a family of four in there. They are saying they are here for our community. They are here to line their pocketbooks. The community here has enough gyms in the area. We have spas throughout the area. We have all these other things that they are trying to bring in. They are going to be closing down our smaller businesses that have been running here for a while. Your spa areas, if they are going to be bringing in a big spa facility, some of the smaller ones may end up feeling a little bit of a crunch on there. Some of the other things that we were concerned with is the entrances and exits to their thing. If you look over at Gold's Gym, which is across the road, they have five entrances to get into Gold's Gym up -- two off of Eagle Road and three off of Ustick. This one here really has one off of Ustick to get in. The second one off of Ustick is a right turn only, so the only way you can get in there is you have to be heading west -- or east on Ustick. The other entrance, those on Eagle Road, the only way you're going to get into that entrance is you're going to have to be traveling south on Eagle Road. If you're traveling north on Eagle Road you have to flip a U-turn there on Ustick or go all the way down to Centrepoint and come in that way. Our subdivision and the other homes that are out there only have two entrances to get into our subdivision. That's Centrepoint Way and the one on -- that goes off on Eagle Road there and with that extra traffic and business that they are going to be bringing in during rush hour when some of us have got to get to work , it's going to be bottleneck up in that area. I agree ACHD will do some traffic timing and change some lights and that, but it's not going to be enough for that area and my main concern is I want it -- and the homeowners want it to go back to the 2005 development agreement at that. Put in the big buildings that were originally supposed to be slotted there. Bring in the businesses that were supposed to be there. That's what we want to see. That's what we were expecting when we bought our houses. That's what we were expecting when we moved in and that's what we were planning on and now with this facility going in there it's throwing everything out. One other thing really quick here. Their pool, why don't they move it down on the Eagle Road side right by Jimmy John's. That's where all the commercial property is at. Put it down there. The noise for the people yelling and screaming, it's not going to be a bother to anybody. The eyesore of the 25 foot tall slide is not going to be bothering people. Their music is not going to be bothering people down there, because it's in the commercial area, instead of being back close to the residential area. And our -- our lots are small anyhow and you can see when they drew it -- their map there was only like a ten foot difference from the house to where they deem their lot line was. So, we don't Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 61 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 53 of 84 have the 65 feet that a lot of your houses have running from the backyards out to the street, plus another 20 foot common area, plus another road, plus another common area on the other side. So, this is going to be right in our backyards and that's what we are against. Thank you for your time. Cavener: Thank you, Mr. Vrba. Council, any questions for Mr. Vrba? Palmer: Mr. Vice-President? Cavener: Mr. Palmer. Palmer: Mr. Vrba, thanks for coming and providing the opinions and information from your neighborhood. I do have several questions for you. One of the -- one of the first points you made was that there is too many gyms in the area. Did you have any kind of data that kind of backs up whether -- how much a particular market or population or whatnot might be able to sustain a certain number of gyms or -- Vrba: I do not have any of that information here. Palmer: Okay. Next question. You had mentioned that in the -- the original development agreement that there -- because the buildings were further north that there wouldn't have necessarily have been delivery vehicles against your fence and you mentioned specifically that in this plan there would be delivery vehicles against the existing fence. Vrba: In the existing -- the 2005 one there will be allowed vehicle -- delivery vehicles between our fenceline and the house -- or our fenceline and the buildings, because that's where they would have to be delivering from the back. With this facility here they actually butt up -- if you look right down there on Picard Lane, they are butted right next to the fenceline that's running right there, so there will be no extra buffer in that area. With the 2000's setback there along that road -- or along fenceline there they -- on the opposite side they had a little bit of common area and , then, they had a roadway for their delivery vehicles. Palmer: So, your preference is to hear vehicle deliveries over children in a pool ? Vrba: That's because your vehicle deliveries will be once, maybe twice a day usually and that and the kids playing at the pool is going to be from 9:00 o'clock in the morning all the way up through 10:00 o'clock at night is what they are requesting for the outdoor for kids. And, then, you're also going to have the other pool and guests are going to be in here at 5:00 o'clock the morning swimming their laps or whatever else they are going to do. And if they are bringing in their swim teams like they were mentioning, you got all that noise out there, too, just people out there yelling in the background. If you guys ever come out through to the subdivision out there it's a quiet area, except for a little bit of traffic that we hear down Eagle and Ustick and that's what we liked about it when we moved in and stuff like that, so -- Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 62 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 54 of 84 Palmer: Another major concern that you mentioned was the busyness of the intersection, you know, traffic -- people visiting the establishment. I believe in the current development agreement there is about 158,000 I think is what I heard square feet of available space. So, is it your opinion that there would be more traffic from this 99,000 square foot facility than there would be from a potential lot of facilities that would be 60 percent -- 60 percent more square footage of businesses? Vrba: What we were looking at is the times that this traffic is going to be going through there. They are looking at opening -- wanting to open up earlier in the morning at 6:00 o'clock -- or 5:00 o'clock in the morning. So, between 5:00 to 7:00 people are going in there, they will be going home. That intersection at 7:00 o'clock in the morning you can't get out on Eagle Road. It's bad. And by -- and, then, same thing in the evenings when you got people going home, people are going to try to go to the gym and go from the gym going back home during the peak rush hours. If these other businesses open up at 9:00 o'clock and -- like the other local businesses around the area do and close at 9:00 or 10:00 in the evening, you got people traveling in and out. You don't have the mass people going over to Kohl's, which is right across the street and wanting to all leave towards the same time to try to get home to get -- so you can get to work. You got them throughout the day. So, I don't -- I feel -- and looking at the way we are able to look at Kohl's and that parking lot over there when the drivers drive out, it's not a lot of cars at a short timeframe. It's throughout the entire day they got a few cars coming in and out. Palmer: I got one more question. You seem to have a really big problem with the -- the variation cost between this particular establishment and other area gyms. Is it you and your neighbors' opinion that this Council should base decisions on -- on future developments based on whether they charge a similar amount to others that provide one of those -- the services or should we ignore that when it comes to the different levels of amenities that may be provided? Vrba: What we were concerned with with that is the likelihood of who is going to be coming in to visit. Most of the people in the area are not in that price range to be able to afford that, so that means there are going to be more people traveling. This facility, sorry to say, to more attuned with people more down Eagle Road -- Eagle than it is up in Meridian for the wages and stuff like that. Eagle has been known to be more of the ritzier area and that's what this place is -- needs to be more down towards Eagle than up in this lot right here. Palmer: Mr. Vice-President? Cavener: Mr. Palmer, I want to give everybody else on the City Council an opportunity to ask some other questions, so let's -- let me give a couple other Council Members and, then, if your questions get asked and is addressed -- and, if not, we will come back to you at the end. Palmer: Sounds great. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 63 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 55 of 84 Cavener: Any other Council Members have any other questions? Bernt: Mr. Vice-President? Cavener: Mr. Bernt. Bernt: So, Ms. Thompson and the gentleman from VillaSport mentioned that the outdoor pool and the reason why they are -- they are requesting an earlier -- their hour of operation is because they wanted to accommodate those who wanted to lap swim. Vrba: Yes. I understand. Bernt: Okay. So, I guess I'm having a hard time understanding why you would be opposed to some -- a handful of people, you know, swimming at 5:00 a.m. in the morning and how that might affect you and your neighbors. Vrba: At 5:00 o'clock in the morning -- if it's one person out there swimming it's no problem, but when you start getting more than one person out there or spouses of those that are out there waiting their turn to swim, they are going to be talking, their voices are going to go up and, I'm sorry, it doesn't matter what type of wall you have , it's going to carry over and makes it -- right now we don't hear that noise, we don't have that type of situation in the area and that's what we are fighting against. We don't -- we won't mind the traffic with a truck driving through there, because it's going to drive in, stop and unload. But with people being out there, splashing in the water, whatever else they are doing, we feel that that extra noise is going to be more than what we want to hear. Bernt: Mr. Vice-President, follow up? Cavener: Mr. Bernt. Bernt: I just wanted to make sure that you understood that it was just going to be lap swimming only, so -- Vrba: I understand that. Bernt: Good. Thank you for -- Vrba: And being the one closest to our side from the lap swimming. Thank you. Bernt: Very welcome. Thank you. Cavener: Mr. -- is it Vebra? Vrba: Vrba. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 64 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 56 of 84 Cavener: Vrba. Sorry. My name -- last name gets butchered, too, so my apologies. I was trying not to do that. Can you orientate on the screen where your home is for Council so we can see? Vrba: My home is this one right here. Cavener: Right. Vrba: The photos I sent with the earlier packet and to everybody was taken right out here on my -- my -- looking right over this way. Their building is going all the way up to the corner here, what my understanding is, all the way down to Picard. This road right here -- the only way they can get out on that would have to be a right-hand turn and this would be a right-hand turn. This area here with everybody coming down Eagle Road this way, turning from here and turning from here, it's hard to get out of that right now, let alone extra traffic coming through there. Cavener: Well, Mr. Vrba, you will have to help me. So, I used to pheasant hunt as a kid in your neighborhood many years ago. Your -- your neighborhood -- I haven't been over there in some time and I remember at one point this Council -- there was discussion about making LeBlanc or Picard or the road around the roundabout private streets. Are your streets private streets or are they public streets? Vrba: Centrepoint Way coming in is public. Cavener: Okay. Vrba: This portion of Picard right here is public and LeBlanc Way is public. This is private. All of this here is all private. This is all private. And this road coming down here, which goes around all the way over to LeBlanc is all private road right now. Cavener: And, Mr. Vrba, who owns the -- is that -- does that belong to your homeowners association? Does that belong to a different property owner? Who ultimately is responsible for the maintenance on those? I remember, Council Member Milam, this was one of the first things we dealt with when we were brand new and so you will have to help me -- Vrba: We actually -- there is actually two HOAs out in this area right here. Jackson Square consists of these homes right here, which are all single family, and there was a center -- I believe it's Centrepoint Square, which is the duplexes that are all located down here and, then, there is the commercial property that's over here and it's -- this group here and the commercial property that own -- they have to maintain those roads, so -- Cavener: All right. Thank you very much. That provides some good clarification. I appreciate that. Council, other questions for Mr. Vrba? All right. Council Member Palmer, do you have some additional questions? Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 65 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 57 of 84 Palmer: Yeah. Sorry. The whole private road thing throws me off now, because -- I mean, obviously, on the map it looks like a major intent of accessing it would be via Cajun. Would that property be part of the ownership of private roads or -- or how does the access to that all work if the owners decided they wanted to gate it? Oh, that works there. Cavener: Council Member Palmer, I think you're getting into some questions we may have for staff later on. I just -- that got my question at least resolved for maybe some feedback for staff -- a question for staff here in a moment, but I don't think Mr. -- none of us are traffic engineers. I don't -- maybe there is -- Vrba: An engineer, but not a traffic engineer. Cavener: Fair enough. Okay. We won't hold you to it then, so -- all right. Any other questions? Thank you for being here tonight. Vrba: Well, thank you, Mr. President. Thank you, Council Members. Cavener: Mr. Coles. Coles: Mr. President, that was the only sign-up. Cavener: Is there anyone else here in the audience that wishes to provide testimony this evening? Yes, sir. Please come forward. Thank you for joining us tonight. Please introduce your name and give us your address. The time is yours, sir. Schofield: My name is Jared Schofield. I live at 1566 North Leslie Way. Basically the property that directly adjoins directly to the west on the map. The parking section there I'm the second house in off of Ustick. One of my -- Mr. Vrba covered a lot of the -- the issues that will surround this. One of the big issues, again, is going to be on traffic flows. One of the big areas we have, especially coming off -- for those of us coming off of Leslie Way trying to make a left-hand turn or even a right-hand turn off of Leslie Way onto Ustick at anytime in the morning rush hour or evening rush hour is nearly impossible. I have been in a -- almost in a head on one time each of the last two weeks because of people cheating the center lane when I try to go turn in -- make the turn onto my road, they cheat that center lane so they can try to drive down the Meridian -- or the median for an extended length of time. They also block that intersection completely, so that sometimes it can take up to ten to 15 minutes to be able to make the left-hand turn to cross traffic. There -- the traffic through this area is so intense already and -- because of Planning and Zoning allowing the high density further down Ustick, this traffic is only going to get that much more severe as we proceed into the future. That is something to keep in mind for you guys. Now, there are ways -- are ways to remediate that by blocking out the section. The general public will follow that and not block the intersections that they are not supposed to do. That's a hard thing to sell people on most of the time. Another one is on the hours of operation. Steve Grant, my next door neighbor, as one of the ones that submitted a letter, the hours of operation are excessively early and go excessively late. I do have small children in my house and with the direction of my backyard, it does face directly into Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 66 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 58 of 84 the facility. I'm not a hundred percent opposed to the facility. I like the concept. I like a lot of the ideas and there will be a privacy wall erected on that, but due to the elevation of the water slides and things there will be a -- basically a sound barrier that, regardless, even an eight foot tall sound barrier will not be enough to mitigate the sound coming off the water slides and off the waterpark directly into the yard. Other than that I feel that Mr. Vrba has covered a lot of the issues and I appreciate your time. Thank you. Cavener: Thank you, Mr. Schofield. Michelle, any -- Council, any questions? Thank you for being here with us and we appreciate it. Schofield: Thank you. Cavener: Anyone else in attendance that would like to provide testimony? All right. Tamara, do you want to wrap things up? Michael? Fassler: Thank you, Mr. President, Council Members. I just wanted to address some of the concerns that Mr. Vrba and the community had regarding the project. First off, the ACHD study, that was done using real data from one of our -- from our clubs, so it wasn't just some kind of predictive what it would be like if we built one here. It's actual data that they used. Secondly, there is large fees that we pay ACHD to help mitigate some of these traffic concerns. Additionally, someone mentioned Gold's Gym is being competitor for VillaSport. We have done market studies. Gold's Gym, even a 50,000 square foot athletic facility, is not the same. We are not a gymnasium at all and if I used that term in front of our owners I would be thrown out of the room. We are an athletic club and spa. That's something totally different and unique. It's something that that -- this area doesn't have. Idaho doesn't have right now. And there were also some questions regarding the -- the pool location. I would love to put it on the Eagle Road side, but I can't do that because there is afternoon shadows. The pools outdoors have to be in the west, otherwise, you lose several hours of pool usage time. So , that's -- that was a concern as part of our prototype, it was brought up in all the designs we looked at. Let's see. Some other things. The -- the VillaSport is a controlled environment. The Villa Kids, they are under supervision, they are not running wild throughout the club and there is people all over that will stop them if they even, you know, got out of line. So, it's not something we had a bunch of youth and teenagers running around doing different things , making lots of noises. I also want to point out -- I think it's in one of these slides here, so I will just go through it real quick. So, this is our San Jose club and we do -- we did address some of the concerns. We were listening to the neighbors as far as the concerns about noise and lighting. Here it shows you -- we have got umbrellas around pools to help mitigate the noise. You can see the lights that we use right -- right above the umbrella. These lights are no higher than 12 feet. They are all downward facing, so the lights don't impact the neighbors. We also use large pool toppers. These also reduce the noise significantly. These are eight foot -- eight foot high kind of tent -- kind of canvasy things that we use. And also I wanted to -- you notice in this picture here at San Jose -- if you will notice in the background there is actually -- there is residences in the background. We are right next to a residential district in San Jose. We just built this club in March of last year. We have had -- we have had no complaints from the residents next door. In Colorado Springs, Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 67 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 59 of 84 our first club, they actually built a three story multi-family complex right next to the swimming pool up against the fence and we haven't had issues with the neighbors there. In Beaverton they built a condominium -- apartment or condominium project across the parking lot, very close to the swimming pools. Again, there hasn't been any issues. They have actually increased the property values over there because we were there next to them. So, hopefully, you know, the concerns will never be concerns -- these things that -- that are being discussed. As far as traffic goes, a lot of our users use it on the weekends, which would be noncompeting hours. A lot of times our busiest times are during the -- the Group X studio times, which tend to be after the moms drop the kids off at school, so it would be in the mornings 9:00, 10:00, 11 :00 and after school when they -- when they come back in and drop the kids off at Villa -- Villa Kids. As far as the swimming pool use goes, we really need these outdoor pools to start at 5:00 o'clock and I understand that's early. I'm a competitive swimmer. I swam in college. President of the company is a competitive swimmer. Swam in college. I have been swimming since I was seven years old. It makes a difference whether you compete indoor -- swim practice indoors and outdoors. Outdoor is a totally different experience. You breathe better. You do better exercise. You get in more of a workout. It doesn't make a lot of noise. I have done lots of workouts very early in the morning. A car driving by the street adjacent to residential is going to make more noise than these swimming pools will make with 18 and over swimmers doing laps. It's not like they are -- they are chatty teenagers trying to, you know, catch up on what happened over the weekend. And , again, these are Monday through Friday. The lap swimming pool at 5:00 a.m., it's not -- and it's only seasonal. It's not going to be around. So -- so, I understand the concerns of the neighbors and we definitely are trying to address those and the way we propose this project and I just -- and I also wanted to clarify, too, that we haven't -- hasn't really come up is the -- the -- the turf area. I just want to make sure that that's not -- it was a little unclear in the conditional use permit conditions that were issued at the Planning and Zoning Commission. I want to make sure that that's not the hundred foot distance that the pools would be that we are talking about. We are okay with the residential property line being the -- the key line and a hundred feet back from that would be the swimming pool location. We are okay doing that, but the turf fields don't -- the turf areas don't work. They are a little closer and, again, it's not -- it's not organized activity, it's not competitive activity, it's -- it's all going to be seasonal anyway. I think that's about it. I'm happy to answer any questions that you may have. Cavener: Thank you. Milam: Mr. Vice-President? Cavener: Mrs. Milam. Milam: I just wanted to say that. I was kidding. I just -- I noticed in this picture, since I have been staring at it for so long, the -- the number of people that are there isn't overwhelming. I guess just to kind of point out the amount of people that use a fitness facility at one time isn't like going to Roaring Springs or some kind of place where there is -- you're just packed full of people. I used to own a gym. Full disclosure. A gym. A Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 68 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 60 of 84 little small 24 hour fitness place and the funny thing is -- I know this isn't. That's why I corrected it. That's why I said that. But the funny thing is when I was opening it and I was trying to get 24 hour access I had to come before this -- the Council then. I was told this 24 hour gym doesn't belong here. That's at Ustick and Meridian. Just two miles down the road. It belongs on Eagle Road. You should take this and take it down to Eagle Road and that's where you should open it. That's what I was told back then. There was one other thing regarding -- thing came up regarding the price. Do you know what the price is going to be? I don't know if that's -- Fassler: We don't set the prices yet until we get closer to opening , because the market changes. I could tell you Colorado Springs for a single person it's -- it's 92 dollars for one single membership and it's about half that to add an additional adult and, then, each child I think is 25 dollars. So, it really depends. Our most expensive club right now is San Jose, which, obviously, it's the Bay Area, it's more expensive, land is more expensive, the process takes many years and that one starts at 149 dollars. So, it really -- those -- that would be the range that we are in. And, again, it's a different animal. It's not, you know, somewhere where you get singles just workout in a gym lifting weights, it's going to be families. They are going to be going there having birthday parties there and -- and creating memories and relationships. It's -- you know, it's a sense of community there, it's not just in and out. So, you're not going to have as many people coming in and out as you would those kind of facilities, which is another important thing as well. Milam: Thank you. Bernt: Mr. Vice-President? Cavener: Council Member Bernt. Bernt: Talk to me about the speaker systems. Do you have speaker systems at all of your other facilities? Fassler: We do. We have them at our facilities. The one we propose here would be -- to face the speakers away from the residences to the south, which I think was addressed in our letter as well. So, we respectfully request the waiver of the hundred foot setback for that. Again, the hours restricted at the -- at the Planning and Zoning Commission level. So, it's not -- it's not like that -- they are restricted hours of use and we haven't had noise complaints from neighbors. Again, we have got residential at San Jose, at -- at Colorado Springs and Beaverton right up against the pools. Bernt: Follow up. Is it more of like a -- like a soft -- you know, is it -- I mean like -- Fassler: It's not heavy metal, no. Bernt: No. And I don't care -- Fassler: It's soft music. It's kind of actually -- Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 69 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 61 of 84 Bernt: I don't really care about the type of music you have. That's not my -- that's not my question. My question is the volume. Is it, you know -- Fassler: No, it's not -- it's not super loud and it's not -- it's not sort of a venue type, you know, auditorium type noise. It's just background noise. So, people can have conversations. It's not -- Bernt: Like spa music. Fassler: Right. But it's not -- it's not just instrumental. There might be some vocals or something there, but it's not -- Bernt: I get it. Fassler: Not quite elevator music. Little Roberts: Mr. Vice-President? Cavener: Council Member Little Roberts. Little Roberts: Thank you so much for being here and I do think this is a -- an amazing project, but one of my concerns is -- you keep talking about swim teams. Are those swim teams that are created within the membership? Because one of the things we have experienced in Meridian is a significant lack of pool space and don't always even have space for our high school swim teams to compete and I didn't know if this is an opportunity to help the residents in general or is it limited to membership only. Fassler: It generally is the membership, but we have facilities where we do have times that we use for local -- local swim teams as well. We offer -- we offer age group swimming, so there are -- there is lap swimming. The master swimming is in the morning. It's -- it's -- I think it's four -- it's five days a week in the mornings and, then, they have got I think two afternoon, noon time sessions. So, this is the primary session, the 5:00 to 6:00 a.m. time period for the master swimmers. We would be open to, you know, discussing -- you know, working with local community groups that have swim teams. Swimming is a great sport. I think everybody should do it. Little Roberts: Thank you. Cavener: Any other questions from Council? Michael, maybe you can -- you touched on this briefly. I will be real frank, I'm struggling a little bit with some of these requests, both the setback requirement and the timing. To me it's -- it seems like an either/or scenario, because little or not, this will impact the residents, your neighbors to some degree. I appreciate and applaud you trying to do everything in your power to minimize that and while I'm not one that faults the sound of children playing, apparently that's a concern of some of the neighbors around there . But can you talk to us about how critical and why the 4:00 a.m. and 5:00 a.m. and -- I do some of my best sleeping at 4:00 a.m. and 5:00 Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 70 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 62 of 84 a.m. I have a two year old, so it rarely occurs. So, talk to me about why those -- that extra hour is so critical, recognizing that as a community we have set these benchmarks because we feel that's what best represents the needs of our community. So, really help me understand why it's important that we -- we make that change. Fassler: Sure. So -- so, as I think Council Member Milan pointed out, that some of these gymnasiums are open 24 hours, like the Gold's Gyms is open 24 hours, so -- so, at the commission level opening from 4:00 a.m. to midnight, which actually restricted the hours we actually originally requested. We requested to be open to 1:00 a.m. So, it's not like we got what we wanted. We got something we could live with. And, then, as far as the outdoor swimming, it's really important, because the masters team, it's the only opportunity for the masters team to work out and especially to workout -- to workout, because the indoor pools are already programmed during those time periods. So , they are in use. So, they need to be outside to -- to allow them to compete and to -- to have them exist and right now the majority of the swim workouts for masters are during that time period. So, it's five -- five out of the eight practices are during that time. And, then, the rest of the time is programmed. Cavener: What is the master's program? That's -- Fassler: So, the Masters would be 18 and over. It would be lap swimming for 18 and over. Cavener: Okay. Great. Thank you. Fassler: Thank you very much. Cavener: Council? I think the best way to make sure that -- oh, staff. Do I need to come back to you? Any questions, concerns? I think we have learned that -- those that are here every week, the best way to keep me quiet is it to put me in charge. Things move a lot faster. So, Council, I will chime in with a couple of my thoughts and I shared them with Michael. I am struggling a little bit with -- with the requested time and, frankly, I'm -- I'm concerned a little bit about the -- the setback requirements. I think it's -- some selective math about if we are going to go from property line at one place to area of impact at the other. I don't know. At any rate, this is going to have I think some fairly big impact -- sound impact to some of the area neighbors and for me we are doing what we can to minimize that specifically at those early hours. That's something I'm more supportive of . But I think we are all in agreement. I haven't heard anybody say this is a terrible project. Quite frankly, I'm really excited about this. This is something that I would love for my family be able to participate. It's going to serve a great need in our central core for folks that don't have the ability to get to either the west YMCA or the South Meridian YMCA. I actually think that the access plans are a considerable improvement over what was initially planned. It may be a question for Lieutenant Leslie. I hate to put you on the spot. I can't help but notice, you know, that corner of Eagle and Ustick seems to be a Christmas tree lot or a Halloween festival spot. Have we received noise complaints from any area residents as a result of that, those operations? Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 71 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 63 of 84 Leslie: Mr. President, I can't -- I don't have the data in front of me to give you solid numbers on how many we have or have not. I don't recall any complaints from the neighborhood in regards to any noise complaints in reference to the Christmas tree lot that goes on that corner. There was a merry -go-round kind of thing there this year and I don't recall any -- any complaints specific to that. I could be wrong, but I don't recall any. Bernt: Mr. Vice-President? Generally speaking, I don't -- I don't have a problem moving the time period to 5:00 a.m. with lap swim only. It sounds like that's -- I just -- I just can't imagine a lot of activity that's going to be disturbing the neighbors at 5 :00 a.m. in the morning. I live -- I live really close to a pool, far closer than what this is in my neighborhood, and even in the middle of the day when our pool -- the neighborhood pool is chuck full of kiddos I still can't hear them and so I don't have a problem with the hours of operation. Just my two cents. Cavener: Appreciate that perspective. Milam: Mr. Vice-President? Nary: Mr. Vice -- oh. Milam: Go ahead. Nary: Mr. Vice-President, Members of the Council, if I could just add a couple things from the code. Not to be a buzzkill, but, you know, in looking at your code -- and there are some discrepancies here and we discussed this at our staff discussion earlier today -- that conflict and if -- depending on where the Council wants to go, I think you need to look at your code, because the provisions that we are talking about here -- all outdoor recreation areas and structures that are not fully enclosed shall maintain a minimum setback of one hundred feet from any abutting residential district. The Commission chose to -- to try to balance some reason in the 25 pages of -- of testimony and discussion you have, they were trying to balance that, but it does say districts and our districts are clearly defined in our code and they don't, but they are not talking about the house, they are talking about the edge of the district and also the residential recreation area is not just talking about the edge of the pool, like in this photograph, it's the area around the pool is the residential -- is the recreational area. So, if the -- the concern I have is there is the next one and that was amended in 2007. In 2005 it says no outdoor event activity center should be located within 50 feet of any property line and shall only operate between the hours of 6:00 o'clock at 5:00 a.m. So, that also neither one of those provisions has variance language in it. It doesn't say that with a CUP, because in the other section it does say in 11 -3A-13 -- and that's on the noise one -- 3A-13 says any outdoor speaker associated with the use shall be located at a minimum of a hundred feet from all residential districts, but those standards may be waved through approval of a conditional use. So, the code allows you to go through the CU process to alter the speakers, but it doesn't give the same language or opportunity as a CUP for these now. Again, Planning and Zoning used that criteria and made that determination and I'm not saying that was wrong, that was subject to review and that's what's here. They have asked you to review Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 72 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 64 of 84 it. Well, there is no specific language in the code that gives you the authority here, unless they request the variance, because there is nothing that grants that. If you believe the code is in error or needs to be amended or needs to be fixed , you can direct that -- the staff, as part of your consideration, but there is nothing in this section of the code that says you can simply waive it, which is what the applicant is asking you to do, just because 5:00 o'clock is better than 6:00 or a hundred feet to the edge of the house is close -- good enough. So, it doesn't say that. So, I would like you to at least look at that and consider your code in relation to what's being requested here, because it doesn't match what they are asking. Milam: So, you can't approve it. Nary: Again, subject to review. If you want to take the position that Planning and Zoning did you certainly can and it is subject to appeal. Thompson: Mr. President, I don't believe you have closed the public hearing. Milam: No, we haven't. Thompson: So, I would like to address this. So, I had some more pictures here that I -- I didn't get to, but I think it's on the definition of what an outdoor activity center is -- is a spa pool environment and outdoor activity center I think is up for discussion and so I -- I just grabbed some pictures from Google Earth of different park environments or pool environments in the -- in the City of Meridian and how close those are in proximity. So, at Fuller Park you can see a baseball diamond is right next to a residential district. The same thing as at Settlers Park, you have the -- the outfield area here is adjacent and I think the things that you will see in both of these is that there is -- I don't know if that's a public street. This one definitely has a public street where there is a -- there is a public right of way that's in between the two uses and, then, just your -- your various neighborhood pools, those are -- are those activity centers? They are in the middle of most subdivisions of -- this was Saguaro Canyon and, then, this one's Heritage Park. So, I think it's just an interpretation of what is an activity center and -- and we have extenuating circumstances with being able to mitigate those . They are unique in that we can -- we can mitigate with -- with things that it may not be a solid cover and that's the way that the code reads is that it needs to be fully enclosed, but those do provide quite a bit of -- this is the other one -- of noise cancellation and -- and catching that before it gets to the property line. One other interesting thing is I was actually the one that did the 2005 development agreement, so I have a long history with this site, just total coincidence with -- with another client coming in the door, but at that time when I had the neighborhood meeting is right after the Lowe's had opened and those neighbors were invited to our -- our site and so it was a good opportunity for me to talk to them about, you know, you thought Lowe's was going to be the end of the world as you knew it when you -- those neighbors just to the west of that and it was interesting that they came back and they were like you wouldn't believe how that building has helped our sound control , because Eagle Road -- the ambient noise level on Eagle Road is high, very high. In fact, I was walking that site not too long ago, because of the ditch tiling and walking out there with Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 73 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 65 of 84 our civil engineer and we could hardly have a conversation it was so loud. I mean we are like, uh, what, you know, type of thing. And putting a nice big building is going to be -- exactly what the people from across the street, kitty-corner for the Lowe's, is it is a sound mitigator and we are talking about a seasonal use and -- and -- and we can mitigate several different ways. We have one other thing here with these -- with plantings as well that are along this property line in this location and that's really all we are talking about. This is a very, very, very small area that we are talking about that -- with using different methods, with landscaping and with those umbrella canopies, I think we can -- we feel confident that we can mitigate any sound concerns. Cavener: Tamara, I guess just -- just to your point, I believe both Fuller Park and I know Settlers Park were both developed and designed and construction began on both long before the residential components came on board and I think your examples of the pools and Saguaro Canyon and it looks like maybe Paramount, those are -- those are pools. I think those aren't necessarily an outdoor activity center, that's a -- that's a swimming pool and I think that those uses are much different than what's contemplated in the application before us. For what it's worth. Just one person's perspective. I think it is important to note that the parks come on board long before those neighborhoods. I know especially with Fuller and Settlers and I do think that there is a much larger difference between a neighborhood pool facility that we -- in terms of how we are -- at least how I would look at the code. So, I appreciate that added perspective, but you asked the question, I think it's important to at least owe you that response. Thompson: And -- and that's -- that's valid. It's -- I think it's important to note that there is open space and a public road between the two and traffic on that public road, you know creates that as well and that we are asking to the residential property line, instead of the residential district, which is -- which is up there. Cavener: While Tamara is up here, any questions? Milam: Well, yeah. Oh. And, Tamara, right now I just think that -- but we are really -- what we are talking about now is legally what can we do based on code. More than -- and include -- to your point, Mr. Vice-President, the difference between what they are asking for and a neighborhood pool, this is an adult -- the adult only pool. So, this isn't, I don't think, going to be a loud -- it would be a lot different if it was the kid area pool, but that one's already further -- a distance from all of the homes. So, I don't even see that as an issue. Palmer: Mr. Vice-President? Cavener: Let's -- I told Ms. Allen that I would come to her. Sonya. Allen: Thank you, Mr. Vice-President. Just clarification on one thing and a question on the other, Tamara, if you just stay here for a second. Clarification on the areas that Tamara spoke about next to residential areas. The difference with this is it's a specific use standard associated with a recreation facility type of use. So, it's a little different in -- Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 74 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 66 of 84 when we have like park uses and stuff, we don't have those separation requirements. So, while I don't disagree the outcome is pretty similar, that's the difference anyway in this case. I do have a question indirectly for the applicant through the Council. The applicant spoke of the turf area on the east side of the structure. It appears from this picture that it's like possibly a children's play area. So, if that's the case, staff would consider that an outdoor activity area. So, just maybe clarify that and -- and make sure whatever you decide on that is very clear in your decision. Thank you. Cavener: All right. Care to respond? Thompson: Absolutely. Mr. President, Members of the Council. It is an outdoor play area. It wouldn't be unlike what you would see at a daycare and I would ask staff through Council if -- if daycares are considered the outdoor activities centers and I don't believe they are. Allen: Mr. Vice-President, Council, daycares are allowed as an accessory use to this use, but I would consider it out outdoor activity center. If Council has a different direction on that, that can certainly be included in the -- in the findings, but -- Milam: Mr. Vice-President? Cavener: Yes. Milam: Tamara -- oh, sorry. Cavener: Traffic cop here. Council Member Palmer, and then, we will come back to you. Palmer: The only reason I'm going to go with that is because on the exact same topic there is at least one church on Meridian Road that has an outdoor playground structure within 80 feet of a house. Cavener: Council Woman Milam, question for the applicant? Milam: Tamara, so I was under the impression that this was like for people that wanted to go workout using -- they would workout outside. Is this going to have a playground on it or is it just grass? Thompson: Mr. President, Councilman Milam, it is both. It's -- it's turf, so it's not -- it's fake grass. Milam: Okay. Thompson: That you see that's green, that's the fake grass. But it does have a play area closer to the building. Milam: Okay. That's better. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 75 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 67 of 84 Thompson: So, there is like -- there is a little play area, some things to climb on and, then, you can see the little -- the foursquare things here. So, those are -- those are closer to the building and those are -- are well outside of that hundred feet but the entire area can be used by adults. They can go out there and lift some weights if they want to do -- do weights outside. But it -- but it can also be used for the kids. You saw that one where they had like the little -- the picture, if you remember, the -- Milam: The parachute? Thompson: The parachute, yeah, if you saw that, that was not -- so, I guess I'm a little confused, because I recently came through with the St. Ignatius School as part of the -- I'm blanking on the name of the church. Cavener: Holy Apostles. Thompson Holy Apostles. Yes. So, you know, that had outdoor activity fields and sporting fields that go along with the school and -- and -- and these types of setbacks were not brought up as part of those either, so -- so, I don't know, just -- if it's a city park, it's fine. If it's a daycare, it's fine. If it's a public school or a private school, it's fine. But when we get to -- to these and -- and we have -- there were -- they are in separation, it's not -- I think that -- from when I read that it's almost like when you're abutting up to a residential district that you have backyards adjacent to you and we are talking about side yards. All of these are side yards and there is roughly two houses there and both of those to their property line is over a hundred feet away. So, we would like your approval tonight. Thank you. Palmer: Mr. Vice-President? Cavener: Any other questions for Tamara? Mr. Palmer. Palmer: I think going off of what Mr. Nary said that I think we have found sufficient evidence that -- to justify -- cover us and -- if we choose to -- if this Council would like to grant that, that we could while doing what he said, directing staff to look at fixing code to meet what was at least my thought of the intent -- more of a residence than a residential district, to not only allow for this, but the numerous other times in which it's happened. Just a discussion, not a motion. Bernt: Mr. Vice-President, just one quick question for Bill before we make a motion. So, Bill, we -- would we have to amend or change the code presented in 2.1A and 2.1D in order to approve these -- you know, to approve these modifications? Nary: Mr. Vice-President, Members of the Council, Council Member Bernt, so I guess what I was just trying to get to is there are some discrepancies in code and there was an interpretation by the public -- or by the -- Bernt: Commission. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 76 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 68 of 84 Nary: -- by the Planning and Zoning Commission to interpret district based on the residence and I agree that that is an option they can choose , which they did. It's still subject to appeal to you. Your decision is subject to appeal to a district court. If you feel that there are discrepancies in code that need to be addressed and the way to address them you can do it one of two ways. You can direct that -- that the staff go back and amend the code and bring code amendments forward and this project needs to wait until that's completed, but that will take a number of months. Secondarily, you can -- you can move forward based on your interpretation of the code and that's what -- the intent of the code and that's what you -- that's what you believe the code means as -- as the body and direct staff to, then, subsequently follow up with that. It is subject to appeal. I can't tell you that that, by itself, a court may have concern with. They may. Like I said, there is one provision here that is allowed through the CUP process. There is another provision here that could be allowed through a CUP process, but the code doesn't grant that ability right now and the interpretation of where this district boundary is -- is -- is a decision you can make interpreting your own code and it -- and, then, subject a review by a court, they could say, no, that was beyond your authority to do. So, it's a little messy. Again, if they had asked for a variance that would be different. That's another option. You can ask for a variance. That's a process. It would come back to you directly. It does take some time. But as you recall in other applications a variance has three specific findings you must make to grant a variance. One, it's not a special right that is not granted to anybody else. It is based on the unique characteristics of the site, which is usually where you have most of the discussion about and it's not a special privilege or grant -- I can't recall the last one, so -- but, anyway, that's an option is they could always ask for variance, because these aren't dimensional standards and variances are meant to -- to address dimensional standards and whether you want to vary those. So, you either grant the CUP, you require them to do a variance and come back or you interpret the code as this body would like to see what you think the intent of the code meant and grant that with direction to clear up the code, but that might be subject to review. No easy answers. Cavener: Council, what do you want to do? Little Roberts: We have someone who would like to -- Cavener: So, Mr. Vrba, you're welcome to come up for a brief comment, if there is any clarification. You got to be up here on the microphone. I'm just going to let you know that the applicant always is going to get the last word and then -- Vrba: Understand. The one question I had is if they would move their swimming pools from this area here, down to here, the variances -- we won't have to worry about getting anything changed. They -- the gentleman back here, he mentioned about shadows. 5:00 o'clock in the morning there is shadows outside. 10:00 o'clock at night are there shadows out there? That's all my point was. Cavener: Thank you, Mr. Vrba. I appreciate it. The applicant gets the last word. Any last comments? Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 77 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 69 of 84 Thompson: Mr. President, Members of the Commission, the cross-access point that we have is -- is at this location and dimensionally it doesn't fit in that area. I guess just listening to your conversations and the looks on your faces on how to -- how to get things -- we -- we didn't ever discuss the variance process with the -- with city staff. If there is a way to approve a condition to coming back for a variance, I guess, or -- I mean if that's something that you want to do, we are happy to do that. We would like to get it to be interpreted differently tonight, but if you want us to get a variance I -- the meeting -- making the findings for the three are probably something we can do. Cavener: Any questions for the applicant, who has been up here for the third time. Or the fourth time. Palmer: Mr. Vice-President? Cavener: Council Member Palmer. Palmer: Yes. Question and, then, kind of some comments on the various -- the variance issue. So, with the -- the private streets, is there any -- how does that work? Will you always be able to have access for your customers on those private streets or is it kind of subject to whoever owns the streets doing what they want to do with it? Thompson: No. There is a recorded document for -- for cross-access and just so you know, Centrepoint Way is exactly the same thing, it's not -- it's not deeded to ACHD, it is via easement. That allows this -- so, it's kind of a tit for tat, if you will, that they needed a second point of access for fire code, because they were over the -- the number of units that they could have for one access point to Eagle Road and so they came to the property owner -- and I know this stuff, because I have a long history here. But they asked for cross-access to get to Centrepoint Way and to get to -- well, to get to Ustick Road. It was before it was called Centrepoint Way and so it was like, sure, we will give you this, but in exchange we want this and so both of those -- it was a tit for tat, if you will, at the time and those are recorded easements that cannot be taken away. Palmer: Mr. Vice-President? Cavener: Mr. Palmer. Palmer: It answered the question for me. My concern was I didn't want somebody cutting that off and, then, everybody has to come on and off of Ustick, you know, to have that access to Eagle I think is vital. When it comes to the variance issue, while it may end up being easier for -- in this particular case my concern with it is by doing that, then, we validate that code as it is written and would appear without considering any other factors, would be the way it should be, despite the fact that there is multiple other cases in which that was not the case. I think if this Council believes that the intent should be to a residence necessarily, instead of a residential district, that whether we approve or deny it based on that, we can determine on -- on the project itself, but I think if we went the variance route it justifies that, but if we assume intent and, then, work to fix it later, then, Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 78 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 70 of 84 we validate all the other previous decisions that have been made in similar situations. That was just a comment. Cavener: Any other questions for the applicant? Bernt: Mr. President? Cavener: Council Member Bernt. Cavener: Or Vice-President. President. Vice-President. Presidente. Whatever. I -- I love this project. I think this project is awesome. I think it's different. I think it's pretty outside the box for this area. I do not have a concern with the demographic of folks that will be frequenting this -- this facility -- this business. I think it fits well. I don't have any complaints about it at all, actually. I think it's fantastic. My only concern is after listening to what our code is, I'm the -- I'm the novice member of this group. I learn every day. Learn every week. And I learned something this evening and I would be in support of continuing this to allow the applicant to go through this process in the proper way and I believe that that would be through a variance. So, I -- that would be my thought process. Cavener: Thank you, Councilman Bernt. The public hearing is still open. Is there a ny other comments, questions? Mrs. Little Roberts? Sorry. It looked like you were reaching for you mic. Little Roberts: Mr. Vice-President. I tend to agree with Councilman Bernt. I think this project is great. I am concerned about the -- the distances and I believe that probably a variance would be the next step. That's -- my only concern is it just -- we have got -- just don't quite have enough space to sort of adjust that or to address that correctly -- to me is really critical. Milam: Mr. Vice-President? Cavener: Council Member Milam. Milam: Bill, would that be -- would that be your recommendation? If we want to approve this project what would be the best way for us to do it between -- Nary: Mr. Vice-President, Members of the Council, Council Member Milam, it would be cleaner, in my opinion, to have a variance discussion and hear -- you have to have a public hearing. There is a process to go through that. Because your code doesn't have the language to simply -- to clearly just do what you appear to want to do as a -- as a Council. You can do it. There is risk. There is less risk with a variance. You can also -- and I don't know if this answers Council Member Palmer's question, but you can also direct, after this variance, that the staff review this code and look at altering it, so that either a CUP could be done or it's based on the residential structures, not the residential district. So, you can direct that as well, even with whatever your decision is. But a variance is cleaner. They -- legally both are subject to review, but the variance has Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 79 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 71 of 84 specific findings. If you can make those specific findings on a review it's a little bit cleaner to deal with in district court. Thompson: Mr. President, Members of Council, the -- I was just talking with staff about the checklist for a variance and it -- it does require another neighborhood meeting, which seems kind of redundant when we have met with them and, then, we have had Planning and Zoning and City Council. So, my -- my understanding is that the Council review was the same, I guess, as a variance, where we were asking you to review the various code sections and so my mistake if -- if we did that incorrectly, but we did notice everything again. We reposted the site. So -- I don't know. To go back to the neighbors and have another neighborhood meeting, when I feel like they all know what's going on -- maybe if we do the variance. I don't know if you have the leeway to -- to waive the neighborhood meeting, since -- since we have gone through it, you know, in -- in public hearing forum -- forum. Nary: I can answer that. No, you can't. Palmer: Mr. Vice-President? Cavener: Council Member Palmer. Palmer: How long does that process take, a variance? And how -- yeah. How long would the variance process take? Or what's the fastest that we could change the code? Nary: Mr. Vice-President, Members of the Council, Council Member Palmer, the fastest to change the code is about four months, maybe five, because there is -- it has to go through Planning and Zoning. A variance is only going to come back to you with -- you have seen -- oftentimes you will have a modification of a development agreement with a variance attached to it, so you will hear them both at the same time, but I -- there is a neighborhood meeting requirement, there is a noticing requirement. Another reason why -- I wasn't trying to sound flippant, Ms. Thompson, we can't waive it because you have to actually notice that you're hearing a variance and we didn't notice that. We noticed essentially a review of the CUP decision. So, I think 30 days, but Sonya has the mic, I think she knows better than I do. I think 30 days is probably the fastest we could have that. Cavener: Okay. Allen: Mr. Vice-President, Council, usually it's four to six weeks when we get an application into the office and the time we can get it scheduled on a public hearing and do our noticing and everything. I would concur. I heard someone mention earlier that possibly the Council review and the development agreement modification application should be continued to run concurrently with the varian ce application. If that is the applicant's intent to submit a variance application, I would recommend that you do so just so that the record is clean on all of these items. Side note. The Council review application does contain some things that won't be covered under the variance, but we can just Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 80 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 72 of 84 handle that all at a later date if you would like. The hour -- and just another -- just another note, the -- the hours of operation aren't really a variance request item and the specific use standards limit those for outdoor recreation areas from 6:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. So, there is really no -- no variance on those hours that could be approved. So, thank you. Little Roberts: Mr. Vice-President? Cavener: Council Member Little Roberts. Little Roberts: A clarification for Sonya. So, even if we wanted to change the hours for the outdoor pool, we don't have the authority to do that; is that correct? Allen: Mr. Vice-President, Council, you do not, no. It's a specific use standard in the UDC. Little Roberts: Thank you. Milam: Mr. Vice-President? Cavener: Council Member Milam. Milam: Sorry, Sonya. Now we are all confused I think. But that was part of the Planning and Zoning's recommendation, was it not? Allen: Mr. Vice-President, Council, Councilman Milam, it was a specific use standard that was included with the conditional use permit conditions. They limited the hours from 6 :00 a.m. The applicant is requesting for an earlier hour of 5:00 a.m. 5:00 a.m. is not allowed per our code. Milam: So, no matter what we want to do we can't do that. That's for the outdoor use only. Allen: Outdoor use only. Uh-huh. Cavener: Council Member Bernt. Bernt: Are we ready to make a motion to continue maybe? Cavener: Council Member Bernt, the public hearing is still open, so if your -- it's your intent to continue the public hearing, then, that's appropriate. Bernt: Mr. Vice-President? Cavener: Councilman Bernt. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 81 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 73 of 84 Bernt: I move that we continue the public hearing for VillaSport, H-2019-0011 and the MDA H-2018-0121 to give the applicant an opportunity to discuss a variance -- variances in association with their -- with their application and maybe to give them time to further discuss maybe some other options in regard to their application that would fit within our code if needed. Little Roberts: Second. Cavener: Motion and a second. Any discussion? Palmer: Mr. Vice-President? Cavener: Council Member Palmer. Palmer: It's almost 10:00 o'clock and we have read a proclamation. That's as much business as we have completed today. I -- it makes this job so hard when we do so much continuing. I wish that we could just -- I mean we talk so much about trust the process, trust Planning and Zoning, trust the committees, I think that they made -- they made the right decision and I think that we would be safe even if there were to be -- I mean everything is -- is subject to legal review and a suit, but I think that there is precedent enough to show that this was the intent and this is what's been done and this is how it should be done and, then, work on fixing the code. Just wanted to say that, so that we can now continue this and not get anything done. Cavener: Thank you, Mr. Palmer. Councilman Bernt, I didn't hear -- and maybe I missed it. Did you -- did you pick a date for it to be continued? Bernt: Would there be a recommended date from staff or from -- okay. Allen: Staff would recommend April 2nd. That should give the applicant adequate time to get the application together and for the city to notice the project. Bernt: Then I would include in that motion, if the second would agree, to continue the public hearing to April 2nd. Palmer: Mr. Vice-President? Cavener: Council Member Palmer. Palmer: I don't know actually how to -- well, yeah, okay. So, as a substitute motion I move that we close the public hearing on item -- that we are on. 9-C. Bernt: Mr. Vice-President, I -- Cavener: One second, Council Member Bernt. There is a motion. Is there a second? Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 82 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 74 of 84 Milam: Second. Cavener: Motion and seconded. Now is there discussion? Council Member Bernt. Bernt: We are voting on my motion; correct? Cavener: That's -- we have a substitute motion to close the public hearing. Yours is the original motion. Right now the motion that is before the City Council is to close the public hearing. Bernt: With all due respect, I -- Mr. Vice-President? Cavener: Uh-huh. Bernt: I believe when -- when we get into substitute motions and alternate substitute motions we are getting into the weeds and it gets really confusing, especially in the public record. I would recommend that we give my vote in option and -- and vote on my motion and if this body believes that they don't agree with my motion, then, they can deny it and, then, we can further discuss what Mr. Palmer is recommending. Cavener: Comments are well received and appreciated. Nevertheless, we do have a substitute motion on the table. Any further discussion? The motion is to close the public hearing. Mr. Coles, I don't need a -- I don't need a roll call for that. All in favor say aye. Palmer: Aye. Milam: Aye. Cavener: All opposed say no. Bernt: No. Little Roberts: No. Cavener: Chair is a no as well. Motion fails. MOTION FAILED: TWO AYES. TWO NAYS. VICE-PRESIDENT NAY. Cavener: The original motion, which is to continue the public hearing is on the table to April 2nd. Any further discussion? All those in favor of continuing the public hearing to April 2nd say aye. Bernt: Aye. Little Roberts: Aye. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 83 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 75 of 84 Cavener: Any opposed? Palmer: No. Milam: No. Cavener: Chair is an aye. We are going to continue this meeting to April the 2nd, 2019. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. TWO NAYS. Cavener: The public is here. See you back then. Applicant, see you back on April 2nd. Folks, we -- Council has been here since 5:30 and I need to use the restroom and that will give the applicant maybe an opportunity to converse with staff. So, Council, with your permission we are going to go ahead and take a break and we will be back at 11:00 o'clock -- or, excuse me, 10:00 o'clock p.m. Sorry, folks. 10:00 o'clock p.m. We will see you in ten minutes. Thank you. (Recess: 9:50 p.m. to 10:05 p.m.) E. Public Hearing for Oaks North and South (H-2018-0117) by Toll ID ILLC , Located on the North and South side of McMillan Rd. between N. McDermott and N. Black Cat Rds. 1. Request: A Development Agreement Modification to modify the overall boundary of Oaks North and Oaks South development and update the zoning district boundaries, the concept plan and modify/remove certain provisions of the agreement that are no longer relevant to the project F. Public Hearing for Oakmore Subdivision (H-2018-0118) by Toll ID ILLC , Located near the intersection of W. Gondola Dr. and N. Black Cat Rd. 1. Request: Rezone of 7.39 acres of land in the R -15 zoning district to the R -4 zoning district; and, 2. Request: Preliminary Plat consisting of eighteen single family residential lots on approximately 7.29 acres in a proposed R- 4 zoning district G. Public Hearing for Oakwind Subdivision (H-2018-0119) by Toll ID ILLC , Located near the intersection of N. McDermott and W. McMillan Rds 1. Request: Rezone of 16.52 acres of land from the R -15 and R -4 zoning districts to the R -8 zoning district; and, Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 84 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 76 of 84 2. Request: Preliminary Plat consisting of 82 single family residential lots and 7 common lots on approximately 16.52 acres of land in a proposed R-8 zoning district Cavener: All right. So, next on our agenda is 9-E, a public hearing for Oaks North and South, H-2018-0117. Council, this application has been requested be continued to April 16th, 2019. Mr. Coles, staff, anyone want to give us just a quick synopsis as to the reason for the continuance? I assume it's for both E, F and G? Leonard: Mr. Vice-President, yes, that's correct. The applicant is requesting continuance on all three items because they are reconsidering what they are going to do with the land for one of the subdivisions, which would kind of affect the modification of the development agreement as well. So, if they don't change the zoning, they don't really -- or if they decided to keep it the multi-family concept that they originally had been approved for they don't need of the modification development agreement. So, they are all kind of inner working anyway. Cavener: I don't think anybody's here to testify. So, Council, what would you like to do? Palmer: Mr. Vice-President? Cavener: Mr. Palmer. Palmer: Mr. Nary, can we do them all at once or do we have to do them individually? Nary: You can do them all. Palmer: I move that we continue Items 9-E F and G to April 16th, 2019. Milam: Second. Cavener: Motion and a second. Any conversation, discussion? Parsons: Mr. Vice-President, sorry to interjected. It's Bill over here. Cavener: Yes, Bill. Parsons: On the hearing outline we did indicate whether or not you wanted us to have the applicant pay a renoticing fee because of the -- the amount of time the continuance was going to be for the two months extension , so it's -- it's certainly up to your purview, but we just brought that to your attention in the hearing outline this evening and just want to make sure if you wanted that included as part of the motion or not. It's your pleasure. Cavener: Motion maker? Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 85 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 77 of 84 Palmer: They all pay a lot of money that we have a lot of excess revenue. I think we are covered. They don't need to pay anymore. Milam: Mr. Vice-President? Cavener: Council Member Milam. Milam: A precedent -- anytime that we do a continuance that needs to be renoticed and it's the -- the decision or the fault of the applicant, the applicant traditionally pays for those renoticing. If it's an error or something that the city causes, then, we pick up the tab. So, I don't -- I don't feel like we can just pick and choose which ones we do that on and which ones we don't. Cavener: I see the motion maker wiggling his hands, which tells me I think he's going to revise his motion. Palmer: Yeah. Let's do that so we can move on. I move that we continue these items and require that they pay for it -- for the renoticing. Cavener: Second agrees? Milam: Second agrees. Cavener: Great. Motion and a second. All in favor of continuing this to -- Items E, F and G to April 16th say aye. The chair is an aye. Council Member Bernt is currently absent. MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. TWO ABSENT. Milam: Sorry you had to wait until now to find out. I was looking at this going we really should have moved you up, but maybe you just had a really nice entertaining evening. Maybe you learned something for when -- when it's your turn. H. Public Hearing for Avebury (H-2018-0141) by AD800, LLC, Located on the North side of E . Pine Ave. West of N. Locust Grove Rd. 1. Request: City Council Review for the purpose of extending the expired plat to allow a 6-month extension to obtain City Engineer’s signature on the Avebury Subdivision final plat; and 2. Request: Modification to the Final Plat to depict 3-foot PUDI easements on the east interior lot lines and propose a zero lot line between Lots 14 and 15, Block 1; and Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 86 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 78 of 84 3. Request: Modification to an Existing Development Agreement to allow for the construction of an attached single family home on Lots 14 and 15, Block 1 Cavener: Item -- next up is Item 9-H, public hearing for Avebury, H-2018-0141. I will also notate for the record that Council Member Bernt has joined us. We will begin this item with staff comments. Stephanie. Leonard: Thank you, Mr. Vice-President, Members of the Council. The last project before you this evening is for a final plat modification, a development agreement modification and a miscellaneous application for a six month time extension -- extension, excuse me, on the expired plat. The site consists of 2.6 acres of land . It's zoned R-15 is located at 800 East Pine Avenue. In 2015 the property was rezoned from L-O to R-15 and was entered into the subject development agreement. A preliminary plat for 15 single family residential lots and five common lots was approved at that time. In 2016 a final plat for 14 single family residential lots and four common lots was approved. In 2017 a modification to the final plat was to accommodate additional storm water drainage as required by ACHD was approved. The city engineer's signature was not acquired during the -- before the expiration date, which was in September of 2017. The originally approved plat was configured with onsite drainage incorporated into seepage beds. On preparing for construction the applicant discover the groundwater level is too high for seepage beds and ACHD required the applicant to install a storm water drainage swale on the eastern boundary of the site . As a result building lots have increased -- or decreased by one. A zero lot line has been depicted on Lots 14 and 15, Block 1. Over here. And city easements have been decreased from five feet to three feet on the western side of lots to accommodate the space needed for the swale required by ACHD. Because of these changes the applicant requests the final plat modification to vary from the original configuration and a DA modification to allow for a single family attached home. Additionally the applicant requests a miscellaneous application to ask for a six month time extension on the already expired plat. The code does require the city engineer's signature or a time extension be submitted prior to the expiration of a pl at. In this case that date was September 7th, 2017. The delay in acquiring the city engineer's signature was due to the applicant working to accommodate ACHD's requirement. Site improvements, including utilities and landscaping have been completed on the site and a storm water swale has been approved by ACHD. Staff is amenable to the applicant's request, since the proposed plat has the same number of buildable lots and common lots. If approved the applicant will be required to submit a design review application for the proposed attached home and the remainder of the homes will have to comply with the exhibit that was in the original development agreement. With that staff is approving this application with the conditions in the staff report and we will stand for any questions. Cavener: Okay. Thanks, Stephanie. Council, any questions for staff? Great. Would the applicant like to come forward. Appreciate your patience with us tonight. Try moving to the other mic. Yeah. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 87 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 79 of 84 Breckon: Jon Breckon. Breckon Land Design. 6661 Glenwood in Garden City. Mr. President, Members of the Council, yes, we are looking to -- this project was previously approved and a good portion of it has already been constructed. We ran into some issues with the drainage and just due to the -- it's just a challenging site -- for site groundwater and we had it designed and approved with the seepage bed on that easterly lot. There is the Five Mile Creek directly to the south and, anyway, during construction the groundwater proved higher than what was reported in the original geo te ch report and so we had to work with ACHD to accommodate that drainage there and this is the solution we have come up with and has been approved by ACHD by providing that swale there on the east and, you know, just the spatial constraints of -- of this site what we came up with is to have a zero lot line there. That's -- that's kind of it. I will stand for questions. Cavener: Thank you, Jon. Council, any questions for the applicant? All right. Mr. Coles, anybody signed up to testify? Coles: Consulting the list, Mr. Vice-President, that is a no. Cavener: I don't see anybody else here. Nary: Mr. Vice-President? Cavener: Mr. Nary. Nary: Mr. Vice-President, Members of the Council, just to give you some background on this section of the code, because it does say specifically they are supposed to apply prior to the expiration. We have on some occasions allowed for this type of application post - expiration. Not quite as long as this, but if -- if it is the desire of the Council to grant it, I think you would want to at least reiterate some of the findings -- or reiterate some of the challenges as your findings for reason for branding it , so that we still can adhere to the code. Like I said, we have had occasions where we have allowed it. This one is a lot longer than most. Most have been within one or two months, not a year and a half , but there are extenuating circumstances and events. If that's the Council's desire at least make that part of your record, so that we can at least make sure that people do adhere to this. We have changed it to make it easier for people, so we want to make sure we don't really eliminate it by that. Parsons: Mr. Vice-President, just to echo on Mr. Nary's sentiment. I was going to chime in and speak to you, but I think from staff's perspective we want to just get clear direction from this Council, this body, as whether or not you want us to even come forward with any additional miscellaneous applications. As Mr. Nary alluded to, this is the third one. It's not the mechanism that we have in place in the code to extend subdivisions, that really is the time extension process. Again, these are some circumstances that kind of were out of the control of the applicant going back and forth with A CHD. So, again, we made a third concession to make that happen. But I think we don't want to set a precedent that we are going to be doing these miscellaneous applications to keep plats alive as they Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 88 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 80 of 84 expire. The intent is if they expire you start back over through the process and go through Planning and Zoning and this body once again. Just some history on that for you. Cavener: Bill, I appreciate that and I agree with you. The hardest challenge is to be able to demonstrate, you know, they are currently -- they are working, you know, you guys were trying to get some issues resolved with ACHD, as opposed to just sitting and -- oh, our time's up, we are back. So, again, I'm in support of kind of staff's comments and that we have got some real validity that the applicant is working to resolve some outstanding issues. Just my perspective. Milam: I agree. Palmer: Mr. Vice-President? Cavener: Council Member Palmer. Palmer: You guys should be scared to death that I'm going to make any motions right now. Cavener: You don't have a great record. Palmer: I know. And over three years that I have been here the majority of my motions have been denied and a hundred percent of them tonight. So, with that I move we close the public hearing on Item 9-H. Milam: Second. Cavener: Motion is moved and seconded. Any comment? To close the public hearing. Bernt: Maybe a substitute motion. I'm just kidding. Cavener: You guys are really trashing me tonight. Milam: Do you want to continue this? Bernt: That was a bad joke. I apologize. Inappropriate. Cavener: The motion is to close the public hearing. All in favor say aye. The chair is an aye as well. MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT. Palmer: Mr. Vice-President? Cavener: Mr. Palmer. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 89 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 81 of 84 Palmer: I move that we approve H-2018-0141, understanding that the extenuating circumstances surrounding the fact that there were additional challenges found post approval and that we have done this similar thing in the past when there has been awkward situations that need just to be dealt with to get something done and done right and given that there has been no public problems or objection to doing it, we approve it as presented. Milam: Second. Cavener: It's moved and seconded. Council Member Palmer, would you feel comfortable in your motion specifically citing that the applicant was working with A CHD to address those issues? They were working with another outside agency as part of those external circumstances. Palmer: Certainly. And, Mr. Nary, is there anything else that we should be citing as reasons? Cavener: Is that sufficient for staff as well? Nary: Yes. Cavener: All right. Motion to approve has been moved and seconded. Are we going to do a roll call on this one, Mr. Coles? Coles: Yes. Cavener: All right. Roll call: Borton, absent; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea; Bernt, yea. MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT. Parsons: Congratulations. Item 10: Department Reports A. Fire Department: Grant Beneficiary Agreement with Ada County Emergency Management [Action Item] Cavener: Thank you all for your patience tonight. All right. Item 10, Fire Department Grant Beneficiary Agreement with Ada County Emergency Management. Bongiorno: Mr. Vice-President, if it's all right with you I will stay right here for sake of time, because I know everybody's wanting to get out of here. What we have before you is a request for a grant to have the Mayor sign it. It was a countywide grant that was issued Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 90 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 82 of 84 to multiple fire departments and Ada County EMS for 30 ballistic vests and 30 fanny packs with three sets of stop the bleed type items in the fanny packs in case there is some sort of mass -- mass casualty event. So, there are 30 level A -- level 3A ballistic vests. We have got enough in the grant to do all six of our fire stations and have some spares as well. That's about all I have. If you guys have any other questions. Cavener: Council, any questions of the chief? All right. We do need a motion. Little Roberts: Mr. Vice-President? Cavener: Council Member Little Roberts. Little Roberts: I move we accept the Grant Benefit Agreement with the Ada County EMS. Milam: Second. Cavener: Moved and seconded. Any discussion? Just -- chief, just a question. I assume that, then, comes with a later budget amendment for the spending authority piece? Bongiorno: I don't believe so. I think all we need is the Mayor's signature. Mr. Nary? Nary: Mr. Vice-President, Member of the Council, I think they actually provide us with the equipment. There is no -- Bongiorno: They are just giving this -- Nary: So, there is no budget. Bongiorno: There is not budget. Yeah. They are giving us the equipment. Cavener: Okay. Great. Bongiorno: It's just the Mayor needs to just sign to approve the agreement. Cavener: All right. Mr. Coles, roll call vote. Roll call: Borton, absent; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea; Bernt, yea. MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT. B. Police: Office of Highway Safety Mobilization Grant Budget Amendment Not to Exceed $32,500 (Net Zero) [Action Item] Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 91 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 83 of 84 Cavener: Thank you. Cart before the horse. All right. Item 10 -B, Police Department Office of Highway Safety Mobilization Grant Budget Amendment for a not to exceed amount for 32,500 dollars. It looks like it's a net zero. Leslie: Mr. President -- Mr. Vice-President, I guess, and City Council, I was going to ask for a continuance, but we are on a roll, so I think I will go with this one. This is the money we get from the Office of Highway Safety. We use it for mobilization grant -- or overtime for DUI enforcement, aggressive driver campaigns, seatbelt law violations, those type of stuff. We get every year. This is the tenth year I think we have received it. Cavener: Any questions? Palmer: Mr. Vice-President? Cavener: Council Member Palmer. Palmer: Sorry, I have a couple of questions. Is it -- can you guys use it however you want? Like if you want to just put it all towards -- Leslie: No. Palmer: You have to do seatbelts and -- Leslie: Yeah. We do various different programs that are authorized through the Office of Highway Safety. The DUI -- I went to one of them. The aggressive driving campaign is the other one. And, then, I think the other one texting and driving. Seatbelts. So, there is several of those dedicated ones that we use it for. And it's always overtime shifts. There is nothing that can be done with on duty staff. So, we have to bring in staff to handle those with a dedicated focus on those types of violations. Palmer: Mr. Vice-President? Cavener: Council Member Palmer. Palmer: It's worth putting up with the texting and junk to have any additional funds for DUI enforcement. So, it's good. Leslie: Most -- most of it is actually for DUI enforcement, to be honest, but -- Palmer: Sweet. I move we approve the budget amendment as presented. Little Roberts: Second. Palmer: For the police. Little Roberts: Was it not to exceed 32,500? Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5, 2019 – Page 92 of 487 Meridian City Council February 21, 2019 Page 84 of 84 Palmer: Yes. Cavener: Great. Thank you, Council Member Little Roberts. Moved and seconded. Roll call, Mr. Clerk. Roll call: Borton, absent; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea; Bernt, yea. MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT. Item 11: Future Meeting Topics Cavener: Number 11, Future Meeting Topics. We are getting there towards the end. Just because I have heard from a couple of you this week, it sounds like the Mayor is planning to provide an update to the Council on the government accountability officer in the next couple of weeks or potentially in our March workshop. So, just keep that on your agenda. Thank you all for your patience with me tonight. We made it. Milam: You did a great job. Cavener: No. No. No. You guys made it easy. With that I ask for a motion to adjourn. Milam: I move we adjourn. Little Roberts: Second. Cavener: Moved and seconded. All in favor? Thank you, everyone. MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT. MEETING ADJOURNED AT 10:22 P.M. (AUDIO RECOR. AUG ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS) MAYOR TA DE WEERD DATE APPROVED ATTES C. ,YAY COLEUS) CITY CLERK �q0"P_1 pAVGv T S � p � 01Y W Cif E IDIAN�_ � IDAHO SEAL