HomeMy WebLinkAbout2019-01-15Meridian City Council January 15, 2019.
A Meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 6:02 p.m., Tuesday, January
15, 2019, by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Tammy De Weerd, Joe Borton, Luke Cavener, Ty Palmer, Genesis
Milam, Anne Little Roberts and Treg Bernt.
Also present: C.Jay Coles, Bill Nary, Sonya Allen, Caleb Hood, Clint Dolsby, Shawn
Harper, Joe Bongiorno, and Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll-call Attendance:
Roll call.
X__ Anne Little Roberts X _ _Joe Borton
X__ Ty Palmer X__ Treg Bernt
__X___Genesis Milam __X___Lucas Cavener
__X_ Mayor Tammy de Weerd
De Weerd: It's two minutes after 6:00. So, we will go ahead and start our City Council
regular meeting. For the record it is Tuesday, January 15th. It's two minutes after 6:00.
We will start with roll call attendance, Mr. Clerk.
Item 2: Pledge of Allegiance
De Weerd: Item 2 is the Pledge of Allegiance. If you will all rise and join us in the pledge
to our flag.
(Pledge of Allegiance recited.)
Item 3: Community Invocation by Steve Moore of Ten Mile Christian Church
De Weerd: Item 3 is our community invocation. Here is Pastor Steve Moore with the Ten
Mile Christian Church. If you will all join us in the community invocation or take this as an
opportunity for a moment of reflection. Thank you for joining us, Pastor Steve.
Moore: Thank you for the invitation. Heavenly Father, because we are starting this
meeting with -- with prayer to you and recognize your presence, we are just reminded
that we know that -- that our world is bigger than ourselves and we have limitations.
Father, I pray that you would direct this gathering for the sake of our city and our
community. Tonight I pray especially for these that -- that serve our community, for people
in all kinds of ways that help to keep us safe and -- and make our streets and roads what
they are and our parks and -- and, then, these folks that are meeting tonight that -- that
carry such a heavy burden. I pray that you would give them clear minds and grateful for
-- for what they are willing to do, some as an occupation, some as a part of an occupation,
some as a volunteer and all of them hours and hours beyond what they get paid for. So,
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bless them, God, for that. Father, we are in a city that's -- that's just exploding in
population. There is so many decisions facing us and it affects us all in different ways
and -- and so we pray for wisdom and good judgment for that to manage all of that. God,
we -- we don't know what's ahead this coming year, but we just stop right now everything
we are doing to say that we are dependent upon you, in your name I pray, amen.
Item 4: Adoption of Agenda
De Weerd: Thank you, Pastor Moore. Item No. 4 is adoption of the agenda.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: There were no changes made, so I would move that we adopt the agenda as
published.
Cavener: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to adopt the agenda as published. All those in
favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 5: Future Meeting Topics - Public Forum (Up to 30 Minutes Maximum)
De Weerd: Item 5, Mr. Clerk.
Coles: Thank you, Madam Mayor. It looks like we had a few people sign up for Item 5.
However, each indicated the discussion topic was something that is later on your agenda ,
which is Item 9-D. So, there were none that were unique to the public forum.
Item 6: Consent Agenda [Action Item]
A. Approve Minutes of January 2, 2019 City Council Regular
Meeting
B. Final Plat for Vicenza Estates Subdivision No. 4 (H-2018-0133)
by Cottonwood Development, LLC , Located East of N. Black
Cat Rd. and North of W. Gondola Dr.
C. Final Plat for Vicenza Commons Subdivision No. 2 (H-2018-
0131) by Cottonwood Development, LLC , Located East of N.
Black Cat Rd. and W. Gondola Dr.
D. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for Rockbury Townhomes
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H-2018-0091) by Michael Nigh, Located North of W. Chinden
Blvd. on the West side of N. Tree Farm Way
E. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for TM Crossing
Expansion H-2018-0122) by SCS Brighton, LLC , Located East
of S. Ten Mile Rd. on the North side of I -84
F. Second Amendment to Development Agreement for Belveal
Subdivision-MDA-H2018-0076 with TTS Developments LLC
OWNER/DEVELOPER) located at 385 S . Locust Grove Road, in
the NE 1/4 of Section 18, Township 3 North, Range 1 East (Parcel
No:S1118110161)
G. Agreement Between City of Meridian and DIGLINE
H. Approval of Award of Quote and Agreement to Quality
Communications for “Conduit & Fiber Install to Homecourt ” for
a Not-To -Exceed amount of $83,663.48
I. Approval of Award of Request for Quotes and Agreement to
Johnson Controls Fire Protection, LP for “Fire Systems and
Security Maintenance and Monitoring” services for a Not-
To Exceed amount of $114,675.60
J. Approval of Change Order No. 2 for Well 28 Water Treatment
Design to Mountain Waterworks for a Not-To -Exceed amount of
157,500.00
K. Community Development Block Grant Budget Amendment Not
to Exceed $422,148 (Net Zero)
L. FY2019 Grant Carryforward Budget Amendment Not to Exceed
747,161
M. FY2019 Annual Carryforward Budget Amendment Not to Exceed
25,993,966
N. AP Invoices for Payment 1/16/19- $2,645,494.44
De Weerd: Thank you very much, Mr. Clerk. Item 6 is our Consent Agenda.
Borton: Madam Chair?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
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Borton: Move that we approve the Consent Agenda as published. For the Mayor to sign
and Clerk to attest.
Cavener: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve the Consent Agenda. Mr. Clerk, will
you call roll.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea; Bernt,
yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 7: Items Moved From The Consent Agenda [Action Item]
De Weerd: There were no items moved from the Consent Agenda.
Item 8: Community Items/Presentations
A. Approval of Park Identity Public Art Proposal
Recommendations [Action Item]
1. Champion Park
2. Renaissance Park
De Weerd: So, we will move to Item 8-A under approval of Park Identity Public Art
Proposal Recommendations.
Coles: Madam Mayor, I believe that Hillary Bodnar was -- or Blackstone was supposed
to be here for that. I know she's in the building. I can send her a message and when she
is in attendance if we can circle back around.
De Weerd: She didn't know we would be so quick, uh? Well --
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: We got a procedure? I don't know how to do this, but, Madam Mayor, if you're
supportive, we can just move that item to the end of our agenda or to the end of our action
items -- never mind.
De Weerd: Thank you. So, we are on Item 8-A.
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Blackstone: Sorry, Madam Mayor, City Council. I'm here to present the two
recommendations for Park Identity Public Art Projects. The first piece I would like to share
with you is the Champion Park proposal. It is called the Champions Flame and it is
submitted by Trademark Signs. So, the intention of the proposal, which was included in
your packet, is to kind of capture the -- the spirit of -- or the competitive spirit. It would be
about 15 feet tall. The concrete base itself would be something that people can sit on. If
they come to the park they could visit and pose on it or take pictur es. As far as the
placement of the eventual piece, that's something that the proposer would work out with
the Parks Department to make sure that it's in a -- it's in a good place. We also asked
the proposer if they would be able to make the interior spirals that -- that are the flame
something that would be able to spin and they said that they could do that for us. We
invited a member from the neighborhood Champion Park to come and help us score these
proposals and she was also in favor of this piece, which I can either move to the next one
or stand for questions in between.
De Weerd: Council, any questions at this time?
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Madam Mayor. Hillary, I didn't see it on that proposal. How tall is this going to
be?
Blackstone: Yeah. They didn't include it in their written proposal. They submitted a
rendering afterwards when we asked them to clarify the height and it looks about 15 feet
tall. They have a six foot person standing next to it th at goes just under kind of halfway
up.
Palmer: Thanks.
Blackstone: Yeah.
De Weerd: Any other questions at this time? Okay. Hillary, go ahead.
Blackstone: Okay. The next proposal was for Renaissance Park and this proposal is
called Eliminations and it is by Ken McCall. Again, all of these are meant to help reinforce
the -- the nature and the identity of the parks. So, Ken proposed this kind of archway
structure that incorporates aspects that people think of when they think of the
Renaissance. So, those include three iconic symbols, including -- here, can I -- I can't
control it. It's on my page -- next one. Yeah. So, the Vitruvian man, the creation of Adam,
and the grill and pen -- or the quill pen and the Stradivarius violin. So, that's meant to
represent kind of science, art, and generally enlightenment, like wanting to learn more
things. This would also be -- as far as position in the park, it would also be up to the Parks
Department to help guide the final placement, but the position of the three symbols would
align in such a way that on the spring equinox, the sun would shine through all of them
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individually and, then, shine onto a concrete kind of circle on the ground to , again,
represent kind of rebirth, spring, everything growing in the springtime. We also tried to
contact a representative from Tuscany to come and score, but we weren't able to get
someone to come out to that meeting, but this one was very much -- it seemed kind of
like a hands down decision by the panel and, then, both the arts commission and parks
commission supported both of those recommendations. And the heights on this one were
spelled out in there I believe. The tallest piece would be 20 feet tall, the medium piece
would be 15 feet tall and the lowest piece would be 11 feet tall and at the widest point it's
14.5 feet across and he has it on a flat panel there, so that both -- all bodied people can
experience it, can walk through it, could enjoy kind of seeing the patterns of the light on it
and clearly it's not going to look like a flashlight, the sun shining through there, but the
point is that those circles would be aligned and, then, kind of highlight something on that
concrete circle there and he has it positioned here right at the entrance of the parking lot
of the park. Like I said, that's something that the Parks Department would have to verify
that it would work well there.
De Weerd: Thank you, Hillary. Any questions on -- on this piece from Council? Was
there not signage on the first as well?
Blackstone: The first one did propose signage, yes, that would help kind of reinforce the
signage they proposed.
De Weerd: And that's all part of the final cost?
Blackstone: Yeah. That sign is part of the final cost. The -- the proposer for this one,
Trademark, had misunderstood the way that the taxes worked , whether they were taxed
on it, whatnot. So, they actually didn't -- this original price only includes the price of one
sign that you see outlined.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any questions? I think the proposals were -- of all three of
them for each park or quality -- all of them were really innovative, had a lot of relevancy
to the name and bringing an identity to the parks and something that th e -- the -- I think
the neighborhood would really embrace. So, these -- these were hands down the favorite
by the selection committee and both of the commissions as well. So, part of that -- this
is an action item and we are seeking action from the Council on moving these projects
forward.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I appreciate the work of the panel, arts -- the arts commission and the parks and
rec's commission review of this and their recommendations as well. S o, with all of that I
would move that we approve the park identity art proposal for Champion Park and
Renaissance Park as presented.
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Milam: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second. Any discussion?
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Borton: Surprise. In a year that we decided to take the allowable tax increase and given
that the -- these two projects represent the entire -- about the entire Meridian city portion
of people's property taxes for 160 families, I will be voting against it.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other comments or questions? Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, nay; Little Roberts, yea; Bernt,
yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE NAY.
B. Approval of Meridian Arts Commission's Fire Station #6
Request for Proposals [Action Item]
De Weerd: Item 8-B is approval of the Meridian Arts Commission Fire Station No. 6
request for proposals. So, Hillary.
Blackstone: So, this is kind of the same format that we came to you guys with these
Renaissance and Champion Park. We just want to give City Council opportunity to see
the project that we would like to see going on. So, the next project that the arts
commission would like to pursue for their match funding is a public art project at out Fire
Station 6. I worked with Charlie Butterfield to help draft this RFP and, then, the committee
also -- that public art committee from the Arts Commission also helped to draft this and it
has been approved by the Arts Commission for your review and approval before we
release the RFP.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions or comments related to the proposed RFP
in front of you?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Hillary, do we have any other art installations at any of our other fire stations or
this is the first?
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Blackstone: This will be the first one. It's something that the Arts Commission would like
to try to incorporate art in more places than just the parks, but other city parcels as well.
Cavener: Madam Mayor? Hillary, do you anticipate wanting to use them the same
amount of dollars that we have expended in the past and the same budgetary number for
the fire station as we have done for most of our larger art installations in the parks?
Blackstone: So, each installation has been different. For example, the -- the Heroes Park
installation was a 72,000 dollar budget. These two coming up are each 40,000 dollar
budgets and this is a 30,000 dollar budget. It's kind of about the size of the space, as
well as the use of the space. We had asked some other artists that have done similar
projects at fire stations and they had said they had seen anything from 20,000 to 50,000.
So, we kind of went in the middle there with 30,000 for this first project .
Cavener: Madam Mayor? Conversations that have occurred in the Arts Commission are
with fire administration about when something like this would go in if it occurs before,
during, after the station is built?
Blackstone: Right. So, the intention of getting this proposal out sooner rather than later
is so that the Fire Department would know in advance what kind of art might be getting
installed there. So, if it was a piece that needed electricity, for example, they would make
sure to provide the appropriate conduit to allow for that. The intention is that the artwork
would be installed and unveiled at the same time that the fire station is opened.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions? Okay?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I move that we approve the Arts Commission -- the Fire Station No. 6 art piece.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 8 -B. Any discussion from
Council?
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: This would represent another 60 families entire Meridian city portion of their
property taxes. Again, I really struggle to do it in a year that we are increasing taxes.
De Weerd: Okay. If there is no further --
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Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Cavener: I will be voting against this motion, not because I -- I disagree that maybe we
should have art in other places. This fire station has been somewhat of a moving target
in our community with a number of different elements shifting and changing location,
shifting and changing and I would rather just focus on the fire station itself and potentially
look to bring art there at a later point in time, but just at this point in time I'm not supportive
of it.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other comments? Mr. Clerk.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, nay; Palmer, nay; Little Roberts, yea; Bernt,
yea.
De Weerd: The ayes have it.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. TWO NAYS.
De Weerd: Appreciate the work of your commissions and appreciate you being here with
us tonight.
Blackstone: Thank you.
Item 9: Action Items
A. Termination of September 25, 2018 Service Agreement MOU -
Bike Sharing Services with Neutron Holdings, Inc., doing
business as Lime
De Weerd: Okay. We move to Action Items under nine. 9-A is a discussion about
termination of a service agreement MOU. Who is covering this?
Nary: I think that would be me, Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. We spoke last week in the
discussion regarding e-scooters, the ordinance that we are crafting and we will be back
in front of you next week. I'm not certain. Anyway, it's coming back to you shortly. One
of the items of discussion in that was we have the existing agreement with Lime that has
a 60 day cancellation period in which we have to invoke that to terminate that agreement.
So, once we put the new ordinance in place we want all of the players to be following the
same -- the same direction in ordinance and so we want to move forward with -- moving
forward with this cancellation, so that we can get this little piece done before the ordinance
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goes into place. So, timing really is -- you know, we need to the authorization to move
forward to direct that. Obviously if there is 60 days, so you look at now it's the middle of
January, so it means it expires at the middle of March, which is about the approximate
time we talked about originally in bringing back an ordinance and putting it in place. That's
basically -- we didn't -- we couldn't do it last week, because we had just brought it up for
discussion and direction. So, that's what we are looking for tonight.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Nary. Any questions from Council?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Mr. Nary, did we communicate to Lime our intention to do this, that this was
going to be on the agenda tonight and did they have any response?
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Cavener, I know we have
discussed with Lime. I don't recall the most recent meeting that -- where that -- whether
that came up or not. I don't recall. I know we have told them that we would have to -- to
do that to move forward with an ordinance anyway, so they were aware of it, but I couldn't
tell you that we reminded them of that again in the last conversation. I don't know.
De Weerd: Any other questions, comments?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: This seems to be dovetailing on Emily's comments from last week and the
direction that she indicated to us that would need to be taken in furtherance of the process
with the ordinance through the normal course, so it just seems to be following our existing
plan to create that global ordinance. So, I would move that we approve the termination
of the September 25th, 2018, service agreement MOU with Lime.
Cavener: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea; Bernt,
yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
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B. Ordinance No. 19-1803: Amending Title 1 Chapter 8, Sections 1,
Appointments By Mayor) And Adding A New Section Of The
Meridian City Code, Title 1, Section 8F, Sections 1-2 (Chief
Information Officer /Information Technology Director);
Providing for a Waiver of the Reading Rules; and Providing for
an Effective Date.
De Weerd: Council, Items B and C are related. As the City of Meridian continues to
evolve and our information technology has certainly stepped up into a major role in the
direction and efficiency certainly of our city, I felt it was timely to -- to consider this position
to be important to be at the directors table and part of the strategic visioning, the policy
reviews and -- and setting a direction operationally. This position will be a critical element
and voice in these discussions as we move our city forward and certainly plays a role
already as an important aspect of our strategic planning. So, I bring in front of you an
ordinance that would make this position a director level position and one that the Council
would have to approve the appointment of the director position as well. So, I would open
myself to any questions that you might have.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I don't see anybody jumping up and down to ask any questions. I think this is
an incredibly prudent ordinance, so with that I move we approve Ordinance No. 19-1803.
Palmer: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 9-B. If there is no discussion,
Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
Coles: Madam Mayor, if I may read the title of the ordinance.
De Weerd: Oh, yeah. Yes, please do.
Coles: Thank you, Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: If you have to.
Coles: Thank you, Madam Mayor. City of Meridian Ordinance No. 19-1803: Amending
Title 1, Chapter 8, Sections 1, (appointments by Mayor) and adding a new section of the
Meridian City Code, Title 1, Section 8F, Sections 1-2 (Chief Information
Officer/Information Technology Director); providing for a waiver of the reading rules; and
providing for an effective date.
De Weerd: Thank you. You have heard this read by title. Is there anyone who would like
to hear it read in its entirety? Okay. Hearing none, Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
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Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea; Bernt,
yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
C. Appointment of Dave Tiede as Chief Information Officer
/Information Technology Director
De Weerd: Under Item 9-C I do bring an appointment of Dave Tiede as the Chief
Information Officer, Information Technology Director. Council, Dave Tiede has been
instrumental in this transition of a department that was considered as support services in
terms of supporting our others and -- and has, as you heard in my previous comments,
has transitioned into a department that in and of itself is -- is stand alone and an important
part of that strategic visioning. Dave Tiede has worked over the last year and more in
developing his skills as an effective leader, as an important part of the strategic visioning
of our director team, and has given countless comments in terms of how we can best
move forward as a city and better efficiencies and looking at how we can better serve our
primary departments and has led a team of employees that are v ery customer focused
and centered and I think it's because they have definitely had a leader that they want to
emulate and follow. So, I think this appointment in front of you is highly qualified to serve
in this first official capacity of the Director of Information Technology as our CIO and it is
with honor that I recommend Dave Tiede to you tonight. I would stand for any questions.
And I know that Dave is here with his family and only after the vote will I ask if he has
anything to add.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: If there aren't any other comments, I would -- one, if there is a night to have a
IT issue tonight's the night, because we have got a significant amount of the IT
Department here. I'm just hoping something breaks, so that you guys can be here to fix
it. Madam Chair, I -- I echo your -- your comments. Mr. Tiede was doing the Meridian
Way before the Meridian Way was the Meridian Way and it's great to see so many of his
fellow colleagues here in the room tonight. In addition I think to being highly qualified, I
think David Tiede is just a remarkable individual and our citizens, our taxpayers are lucky
to have such a remarkable IT staff that work tirelessly to create solutions to problems so
that we don't have to spend more of taxpayers' dollars to find the answers and I think that
team has grown tremendously under Mr. Tiede's leadership. That is a remarkable
department with incredibly intelligent individuals and I am happy to make the
recommendation that we appoint David Tiede as the Chief Information Officer --
Information Technology Director.
Milam: Second.
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Palmer: Is that a motion or a recommendation?
Cavener: Motion.
De Weerd: Well, I hope it's a motion to approve my appointment.
Cavener: A motion to approve the Mayor's appointment for David Tiede.
De Weerd: I assumed it as such. Any discussion from Council? Mr. Clerk, will you call
roll.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea; Bernt,
yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Mr. Tiede.
Tiede: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. I am very very touched in
your support and trust that you place in me and that our citizens, our community place in
me as well. I am excited to continue to lead this department forward and to continue to
provide excellent services to our customers, which are the rest of the employees, but also
our community. I would like to give a big thanks to my team, the Information Technology
Department. You see a few of them here. This wouldn't be happening without them.
De Weerd: I know. They make you look good.
Tiede: They do. They make me look -- thanks for their support and their diligence and
their commitment to the Meridian Way is all part of this, so -- I also would like to thank my
wife and family for the support they give me as well and thank them for being here tonight.
So, again, thank you for your trust and for this opportunity and I will leave you with that.
De Weerd: And, Dave, I -- I would like to personally thank your family as well. I -- I know
they put up with your late night phone calls and your 24 /7 customer service to the users
that you have here at the city. You and your team definitely step up in -- in a fashion that
supports the -- the employees of the city to make sure we can continue to use technology
24/7, which we do. So, to your family thank you. We appreciate that and we -- we have
put a lot of faith and trust in -- in your husband, because he's earned it and to his team --
I know you all know he's earned it and I do see Mike Tanner out in the audience. Mike
and Dave stepped up in a big fashion and were co-chairs of -- of this department or this
division for some time. The leadership and the -- the collaboration, the coordination that
you did as one was incredible. So, Mike, thank you for your continued dedication to this
department. I know you have kind of handed the -- the baton over solely to Dave. You're
an integral part to -- to the leadership that has established itself as providing Meridian
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Way customer service and -- and we appreciate you and thank you, each and every one
of you, for being here tonight to see this well-deserved honor to your leader. So, thank
you, Dave. We appreciate you and your family joining us.
Tiede: Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Hey, Dave, before you leave you need to introduce your boys.
Your kids.
Tiede: My daughter would love to meet Mayor Tammy.
De Weerd: Well, I would -- I would come down there.
Palmer: She doesn't want to meet Ty Palmer?
D. Public Hearing Continued from December 18, 2018 for Linder
Village (H-2017-0088) by Lynx/DMG Real Estate, Located at the
SE corner of N. Linder Rd. and W. Chinden Blvd.
1. Request: Annexation and Zoning of 81.51 acres of land from
the RUT zoning district in Ada County to the C-C zoning
district (63.796 acres) and the R -8 zoning district (17.713
acres) in the city; and
2. Request: Preliminary Plat consisting of 16 commercial
building lots, 1 residential building lot, 2 common lots, and 2
other lots for future right-of -way dedication on 78.13 acres of
land in the proposed C-C and R -8 zoning districts; and
3. Request: Variance to the UDC 11-3H-4B .2 for 2 accesses via
W. Chinden Blvd./SH 20-26
De Weerd: Thank you, Dave. Okay. Okay. We are now moving to -- and, Dave, you
and your family and staff can leave if you would like. Or feel more than welcome to stay
and participate. Item 9-D is a public hearing continued from December 18th for H-2017-
0088. I will turn this over to staff. Oh, I'm sorry, Mr. Borton.
Borton: Madam Mayor. I will interject real quick. I had recused myself from the -- at the
last public hearing. There is a provision of state code which doesn't prevent me from
participating. City code as it currently stands does. So, I will continue to recuse myself
and not be involved in any discussions or deliberations. So, will continue that path.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. So, Sonya, I will turn this to you.
Allen: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. This application has been
before you before. It's an annexation and zoning, preliminary plat, and a variance
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request. This site consists of 78 acres of land. It's currently zoned RUT in Ada county
and it's located at the southeast corner of North Linder Road and West Chinden
Boulevard and State Highway 20-26. This application was previously heard by the
Council in November of 2017 with a recommendation of denial from the Commission
based on the design of the previous concept plan. The application was continued and a
revised plan was submitted and in January of 2018 Council voted to remand the
application back to the Commission for their review and recommendation on the revised
plan, which included a collector street connection from Linder to Fox Run for access to
the traffic signal and took into consideration comments from the hearing in regard to safety
concerns pertaining to the extension of Arliss Avenue, the location of the Winco building
and 24 hour operation of the Winco. The Comprehensive Plan future land use map
designation for this property is mixed use community, which is 54 acres of the site and
medium density residential, which is 24 acres of the site and that map is shown here on
your right. The yellow area is the medium density residential. Brown is the mixed use
community. The applicant is requesting annexation and zoning of 81.51 acres of land
from the RUT zoning district in Ada county to the C-C zoning district, which consists of
63.8 acres of the site and R-8 zoning district, which consists of 17.71 acres of the site into
the city. Their proposed zoning and development is consistent with the future land use
map designations for this property. A conceptual development plan was revised and
submitted that depicts a mix of retail, office, civic and residential uses, consisting of nine
commercial building pads, two restaurant pads and a fuel station along the periphery of
the development adjacent to Chinden and Linder. Four two story live-work residential
office buildings, a library and two market buildings along this central north-south entry
corridor via Chinden Road -- Chinden Boulevard. Excuse me. Within a plaza. Two multi-
story office residential retail buildings along the collector street. One anchor, Winco, and
a mid anchor to the west of the central north -south corridor. Three mid anchors to the
east of the north-south central corridor. Future office retail development planned at the
northeast corner of the site. A park and future single family residential development on
the south side of the collector street and pedestrian walkways throughout the
development providing interconnectivity between the residential and commercial portions
of the site. The truck receiving area for the Winco store has been relocated from the rear
of the building to the west side of the building facing Linder Road, with the loading docks
facing north toward Chinden Boulevard away from the residential uses to the south and
are proposed to be screened by a masonry wall and this is the area we are talking about
right in here where my pointer is at. The future medium density residential development,
which consists of attached and detached homes, planned on the south side of the
collector street -- that is the street running through the site right here -- will assist in
providing a transition to larger single family residential lots to the south and east in
Paramount Subdivision and the collector street will provide a separation and boundary
between the future residential and the commercial development. This is just a plan
showing all the proposed uses I mentioned. A preliminary plat is requested consisting of
16 commercial building lots, one residential building lot, two common lots and two other
lots for future right of way dedication on 78.13 acres of land in the proposed C-C and R-
8 zoning districts. The residential lot, which is Lot 3 on the south side of the collector
street, is included in the plat as one large lot and will be developed in the future under a
subsequent preliminary plat, as will the future office and retail development on the eastern
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portion of the site depicted as Lots 12 and 13. A phasing plan was submitted as shown
for the proposed development. Phase one improvements include the construction of an
east-west collector street from Linder to Fox Run Way, the extension of North Bergman
Avenue to the collector street. That is the kind of bluish purple line here. Street buffers
and walkways along the full frontage of Linder Road and State Highway 20-26 and along
both sides of the collector street and all yellow areas on the phasing plan. The traffic
impact study was updated based on the revised concept plan and has been submitted to
ITD and ACHD. Access is proposed for the development via West Chinden Boulevard,
State Highway 20-26, as follows: One right-in, right-out access is proposed nearest the
Linder-Chinden Boulevard intersection. That's this one right here. And one left-in, right-
out access is proposed in alignment with Bergman Way. That is right here. On the north
side of Chinden. Improvements are required at the State Highway 20-26, Fox Run-Linder
Road and Meridian Road intersections as identified in the TIS and State Highway 20-26
will be widened to a five lane section between Linder and Meridian Roads. The applicant
has requested consideration to enter into a STAR agreement with ITD and ACHD to
implement the aforementioned improvements, along with additional improvements
required by ACHD, which are required to be completed prior to issuance of any C of O,
certificate of occupancy, within this development. Access is proposed via Linder Road as
follows: One right-in, right-out access nearest the Linder Road-Chinden intersection and
that would be this access right here and two full accesses further to the south. That's that
one right there and this one. The southern most -- the southern most access via Linder
is a collector street that stubs to the east property boundary that will extend to Fox Run
Way and provide access to the signal at Chinden and Fox Run with the first phase of
development. Three stub streets, Arliss, Bergman and Director Street exist at the south
and east boundaries of the site to the future residential area that will be extended with
development. Two accesses are proposed from the residential area to the collector street,
which will provide internal access to the mixed use development from the adjacent
residential area without residents having to go out onto Linder and Chinden Roads. A
cross-access ingress-egress easement is required to be provided to the commercial
property to the south on Linder Road and that is that property directly to the south of here.
A segment of the city's multi-use pathway is required along Linder Road per the pathways
master plan. A ten foot wide multi-use pathway is required within the street buffer along
State Highway 20-26. The concept plan also depicts a ten foot wide pathway along the
east and south perimeter boundaries of the site with internal sidewalks, pathways
proposed throughout the development with connections to the multi -use pathways.
Conceptual building elevations were submitted for the main anchor Winco, the mid
anchors, and the retail shops. Building materials consist primarily of stucco, with smooth
and split face CMU, metal panel siding and stone and brick veneer accents.
Nonresidential buildings should be proportional to and blend in with adjacent residential
building. All structures, except single family residential detached, are required to comply
with the design standards listed in the UDC and the architectural standards manual. A
variance is requested to UDC 11-3H-4B2, which prohibits new approaches directly
accessing a state highway. State Highway 20-26 specifically in this case. The applicant
is requesting approval of two accesses via the state highway as shown on the concept
plan, consisting of one right-in, right-out and one left-in, right-in, right-out access. Those
are those two accesses right here. When a change or increase in intensity of use is
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proposed the UDC requires the owner to develop or otherwise acquire access to the
street, other than the state highway. Use of any existing approaches is required to be
abandoned and removed. Public street connections are only allowed at the section line
roads and the half mile mark between section line roads and shall be collector roads. ITD
has submitted a letter stating they accept the right-in, right-out access proposed nearest
to Linder-State Highway 20-26 intersection with an eastbound right turn deceleration lane
and a right-in, right-out left-in approach via State Highway 20-26, with right turn decel
lanes for eastbound and westbound Highway 20-26. Final approval of the proposed
accesses will take place once all documentatio n has been provided and the permit is
signed. ITD has the authority to grant access from a state highway to -- to the site. The
city has authority to grant access from a site to the state highway. Although ITD may
approve the proposed accesses via the highway, approval from the city is still needed.
That is for the City Council. The UDC allows for Council approval of accesses via state
highways if ITD has approved the accesses without a variance if they deem appropriate.
However, in this case ITD has not granted final approval, so that's why the variances is
before you. There are findings in the staff report that you should have before you that
you have to be able to make in order to grant a variance and those deal with -- they can't
-- the variance can't grant a right or special privilege that isn't otherwise allowed in the
district. The variance relieves an undue hardship because of characteristics of the site
and the variance can't be detrimental to the public health, safety and welfare. Because
staff can't make all the required findings and the UDC prohibits access to the state
highway, staff is recommending denial of the proposed varian ce application. Summary
from the Commission hearing. The Commission recommended approval of their
proposed concept plan and development application with conditions noted in the staff
report. Ken Howell, Lynx-DMG Development, Nick Eller, Jim Alexander, Chris Williams
and Keith Jones testified in favor. David Eastman, Sally Reynolds representing Smart
Growth For Meridian, Andrea Carrol and Justin Carpenter testified in opposition. Mike
McCreary, Joe Marshall, Michael Arnold, Frank Reynolds, Ruth Shane, Wendy McKinney,
Dave McKinney, John Ringert of Kittelson Associates commented on the application and
written testimony was received from many folks within the community and adjacent
neighbors. Those are all contained in the public record. I won't go through that, because
it's -- or list as it's very lengthy. Key issues of discussion at the public hearing. There was
testimony against the 24 hour operation of Winco. The desire for traffic calming to be
provided on Bergman Avenue, a different road design, or a traffic circle, so as not to create
a thoroughfare for high school students and residents. Break up the mid anchor stores,
so that they are less of a strip development style and more consistent with mixed use
community. Residential uses should be better integrated with commercial uses consistent
with the mixed use designation. Public benefit of the widening of Chinden Boulevard with
development. Appreciation for the loading docks being relocated to the west side of the
Winco building and the changes made to the site plan and requested by the neighbors.
Need for increased walkability of the site consistent with development and mixed use
designated areas. Would like confirmation that a library is going into the development for
sure and against access to the site through the residential neighborhood due to safety
concerns pertaining to high rates of speed of vehicles. Key issues of discussion by the
Commission are as follows: Changes to the site plan due to the location of the continuous
flow intersection. Reconfiguration of Bergman Avenue, so it's not a straight shot off the
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collector street into Paramount Subdivision. Possibility of limiting truck deliveries for
Winco to daytime hours. The timing for widening of Chinden and Highway 20-26 and
extent of project. Traffic calming measures, reconfiguration of Bergman Avenue so that
it's not a straight shot from the collector street into the residential neighborhood
Paramount Subdivision. Would like to see a library or other civic-related use or theater
provided within the development. Desire for a resolution on the collector street
connection to Fox Run Way and access to the traffic signal at Chinden and Fox Run and,
finally, the need for services in the northern portion of the city as proposed. The condition
-- the Commission made the following changes to the staff recommendation. They added
a requirement for the applicant to work with Brighton, the adjacent property owner to the
east, to finalize an agreement for a collector street connection through Fox Run and they
did ask for -- if -- if the agreement couldn't be reached, the project be sent back to the
Commission for further review. They added a requirement for the applicant to work with
ACHD on the collector street intersection with Linder Road where the signal is proposed
and the firehouse access is located and traffic calming measures to slow traffic on
Bergman Avenue and they added a requirement for some of the multi-family -- excuse
me -- multi-story office live-work units south of Winco to be constructed with the first phase
of development. Outstanding issues for City Council tonight. A letter was received from
David Turnbull, Brighton Corporation, confirming Brighton will work with ACHD on the
alignment and right of way acquisition to facilitate construction of the east-west collector
street from the east property boundary through their property to Fox Run Way. However,
the purchase price of the right of way is yet to be determined. Therefore, the agreement
is not finalized as recommended by the Commission to occur prior to the Council hearing.
However, ACHD is coordinating the right of way acquisition and dedication with Brighton,
which won't be done until after approval of the application of the STAR agreement.
Council approval of the accesses proposed via North Linder Road and the east-west
collector street is required in accord with UDC 11-3A3, which limits access to arterial and
collector streets. Finally, the Council should determine if the request for access by the
state highway should be approved. Many letters of written testimony have been received
since the Commission hearing and, again, those are all listed in the public record. Staff
will stand for any questions.
De Weerd: Thank you for that detailed staff report. Council, do you have any questions
at this time?
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Madam Mayor. Sonya, under the three findings that have to be made to grant
the variance, you had mentioned the staff wasn't able to make the findings on each of
them. Which ones were tough or impossible to find those findings on for staff?
Allen: I can't make any of the findings.
Palmer: Any of them.
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Allen: Councilman Palmer. Yeah.
Palmer: Thanks.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions at this time? Would the applicant like to comment?
Good evening. If you will, please, state your name and address for the record.
Howell: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the City Council, my name is Ken Howell.
I represent DMG/Lynx on this project. My -- my --
De Weerd: Ken, can you just pull that up.
Howell: I will give it a try.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Howell: There we go. My street -- my business address is 877 West Main, Boise, Idaho.
83702. And I will apologize in advance to the Commission, I have got a little bronchitis
and so my voice will kind of drop in and out and I apologize in advance for any coughing
I will have to do, but we will make it through tonight. No, I'm good. Water -- water doesn't
help unless I were to actually swirl it around in my lungs. I think that would cause more
problems, so -- so -- but -- but we will get through. Thank you very much. Madam Mayor,
Members of the Council, I'm -- I'm pleased to be here tonight to present this project in its
current iteration. As you know, we were here approximately a year ago almost to the day
before you to discuss this project and, frankly, there has been a lot of work, a lot of
expense, a lot of thought, a lot of time spent in revisions to this project to address the
concerns that were expressed, not only by this Council, but also subsequently by
community members and by Planning and Zoning Commission. We have also taken into
consideration comments and feedback that we have received from other agencies, such
as ITD and Ada County Highway District in coming up with a project that's before you
today and so while I want to summarize some of those changes, I also want to talk about
a couple of conditions that P&Z recommended that you adopt and ask for some
consideration on those. But first just kind of an overall. I wanted to provide you some
summary of the substantive changes that are involved in this project and how they
address the concerns and issues that the Council expressed previously. First as to the
Winco store. The Winco store has actually been -- since the last time you saw this project
Winco stores has actually been recon -- oops, can we have that back up, Sonya. Thank
you. The Winco store has been reconfigured. It -- it did have a former angle to it. It's
been realigned. Most significantly the truck loading dock, trash compactors, any noise
producing activities have been moved to the far west side of the building and oriented
either to face Linder Road or face north towards Chinden. The wall that you see there
behind the loading docks on the lower portion, the southern portion of the building, is a
full height masonry wall. It's approximately 35 feet, the full height of the building. That
blocks the entirety of the loading dock and the trash compactors and other noise
producing equipment from any of the future residential development and certainly any of
the existing residential development. For a point of reference, the loading dock is on the
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opposite side of that full height masonry wall and is 581 feet from the nearest residents.
So, nearly three football fields from the nearest residents and that's a significant
accommodation and a significant change from the way this configuration looked from th e
last time that you saw it. On the access there was some concerns about access to the
neighborhood, particularly Arliss and Bergman, and if you will look down towards the
lower portion of this concept plan, which is before you, you will see Arliss come up and
bend to the right, right along where it says future residential development at the southern
boundary of this project. So, Arliss does not collect -- connect directly to the collector
road that passes through -- or rather it winds its way through the future residential
development. We show a further traffic restriction. You will see where it narrows down
where it connects into Bergman and, then, Bergman, in turn, connects into the collector
road. This is a pretty significant change. Also with Bergman you will note that Bergman
now does not collect -- connect directly to the collector road. Previously what we had
shown was kind of just a slight left-hand bend in that road. Now it takes a 90 degree right
and a 90 degree left, with some stop signs there, of course, at the connector road. I would
point out one thing specifically, which has varied somewhat in the Ada County Highway
District report, which is in the materials before you addressing this issue of cut through
traffic. What Ada County Highway District noted is that cut through traffic is not a terrible
huge concern as far as they can tell from this development in that if you're down further
south where Cayuse Street connects, if -- if there is attempt for cut through traffic from
Cayuse Street -- Cayuse Street through to Arliss or Bergman, that adds approximately a
half mile to the trip distance to connect into this development and so we think we have
done as much as can possibly be done to eliminate any incentive for cut through traffic
and, rather, make the streets what they are intended to do, both by the city's policies and
by Ada County Highway District's policies, which is to allow interconnection of
development with local neighborhoods, so that they don't have to go out onto the main
arterials in order to make their way through. There is traffic calming devices scattered
throughout, in addition to the narrowing of Arliss, which I pointed out before. If you look
along the connector street you will see that there is several crossbars that go across.
Those depict raised crosswalks, speed bumps if you will, for the crosswalks that cross
that connector road as additional traffic calming devices. One of the primary
considerations that we had that I think got us to about 12:30 or 1:00 in the morning last
time we were here was the issue of access to Chinden through Fox Run and whether we
had the possibility for that access and it was our understanding at the time , based on a
number of different meetings and correspondence, that we did not have access to Fox
Run through the -- the property on that end of the parcel and as you know there was a
letter that had been submitted about 5:00 o'clock the day of the hearing that we, as the
applicant, were certainly unaware of until it was brought up later -- very much later in the
evening where there was an indication that, oh, well, of course we -- we talked with the
applicant about allowing that access. So, that's how we got reset the last time and sent
back to P&Z to make that consideration. We have since had very productive
conversations and we have -- in fact, you have the letter agreement in the file that shows
we will have access to Fox Run. Planning and Zoning in their consideration of that issue
I think went a little above and beyond what they needed to do when they recommended
to you that we have a completely signed, sealed, delivered final signed agreement that
says we absolutely have that right of way, because that's, frankly, not the way the process
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works. The process works here that you acquire the right of way that has to be done
through the public agencies, through Ada County Highway District. Ada County Highway
District will acquire that through the right of way negotiation process and the price will ,
therefore, be set by that process. So, while we don't have a signed, sealed, delivered
agreement, we -- you do have the agreement -- letter agreement showing that that is
where we will have access. That's what we are proposing for access to the property and
that process will have to get done in order to comply with the ACHD approval that we
currently have in place anyway. So, I think that's about as close to a signed, sealed and
delivered agreement as you can possibly have given the way the process works. Before
I move on to a couple of other areas I want to turn back to the issue of Winco and the
loading dock and the question that has come up of 24 hour operation of that facility and
24 hour deliveries. Twenty-four hour operation, of course, is a key concept for this
building as it is for virtually all of the Winco facilities. This is part of their business model.
The 24 hour operation is designed to provide access to a full service grocery and retail
operation for those that don't work traditional hours and there are a large number of those
that don't work traditional hours these days, including health workers, fire, safety, police
and the others. So, we believe 24 hour operation is critical to the operation of that
building. Second, the 24 hour delivery operation -- because overnight operation hours
tend to be less intensive uses of the story inside and that's the most convenient time to
restock the store, that makes the most sense in Wincos business operations for delivery
of those goods to the store at -- certainly overnight, but at all hours of the day and night
and while that may be a -- may have been a consideration or maybe considerations at
other locations, what we would submit to you is that we have done such substantial design
and redesign of this facility to address and ameliorate the concerns of the 24 hour
deliveries that here we have the building that's two football fields farther away from the
nearest residents and at that location we have a full height masonry wall that will block
the sounds when the trucks backup to this facility and dock for delivery, it's a -- it's a hard
dock, the truck backs in and it's sealed around the back of the truck. There is no operation
of forklifts and other things outside, it's all contained within the truck and the building and
to bolster really the impact of this and the impact on the sound and possible disruption to
the neighborhood, there is a sound study that's part of the record before you that we
commissioned and what that sound study showed is that with -- as a result of the full
height masonry wall and the other sound reduction measures that we have taken and the
distance of the building that there is actually a net reduction in ambient sound by the
construction of this building from the existing noise that comes from Linder Road, from
Chinden Boulevard and others. So, you know, what we have tried to do is illustrate that
the 24 hour operation of this building will not in any way result in a detrimental impact to
the nearby residences and, in fact, it improves the sound quality from what is currently
there. And, again, that sound study is in the record before you. So, before I go I have
got just a couple of things to talk about for conditions of approval by the Planning and
Zoning. Planning and Zoning recommended that the live-work units to the south of Winco
-- and I don't know if my pointer -- there we go. I think my pointer works here. Those are
these facilities that I'm circling right now, they are called multi-story live-work, these two
facilities be constructed in the first phase and, again, this is the product of a discussion
that extends until 12:30 or 1:00 o'clock in the morning and this occurred in the context of
their concern of blocking any possible sound to the nearby residences. We did confirm
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with the sound engineer that conducted the study that he modeled this without the
presence of those live-work buildings being in place, so that their construction in the first
phase will not affect the sound study results that show no impact from the commercial
operations of the Winco and the Winco loading dock. Accordingly, what we would request
is that that condition not be imposed, that those live-work buildings be allowed to be
constructed in due course as they are marketed and able to be leased out in the normal
course of operation. So, the only final thing I want to point out is two things and, Sonya,
if you could bring up the PowerPoint and, then, right after that we have got a little bit -- a
little video that I will leave you with -- or before stopping for any questions. Here we go.
I think it's important to note that this is a very popular proje ct. We have conducted a
number of outreach campaigns, we have received over 1,025 letters, including 129
personal -- personalized letters in support of this project, over 1,765 likes on social media.
On Facebook you can see the other numbers there. We h ave had a number of community
engagement outreaches with participants to show up. There we go. This gives you an
idea of the community support map that the little flags show placement of the location of
those that have indicated support for the project. This is, obviously, a pretty big map area.
You can see the interstate at the south and Eagle Island State Park to the north, which
gives you a little idea of the overall range. This is a little closer up view and you can see
these are clustered all around where this development will be and I think this gives you
some idea of -- of what the possible usage of the project will be and what that represents
is a minimization of additional traffic going elsewhere where there is commercial and
instead of being redirected here to this location. And, then, finally, Sonya, if you could
cue up the video, we have a little animation video to just give you an overview of what the
Village at Chinden will look like. So, sometimes this takes a minute to load and, then,
once it's up I would certainly be willing to stand for any questions that at this time Madam
Mayor and the Council may have. And I see it's still thinking about it. This would be a
perfect time to have your crack IT staff troubleshoot this issue, so -- there we go. Do you
have sound? There is sound.
(Video played.)
Howell: Madam Mayor, City Council, I would be happy to try to answer any questions at
this time and, certainly, I will be around later.
De Weerd: Council, any questions at this time? Mr. Cavener?
Cavener: Madam Mayor, thanks. Mr. Howell, thanks for being here again. Nice to see
you. Happy New Year. Only because you included it in your video -- I noticed lots of
signage stores, but there was one name that was a little more specific and that's the
library. There has been a lot of discussion about the future of a potential Meridian library
there. What's the status? What can you update us with on that?
Howell: Madam Mayor, Commissioner -- Councilman Cavener, we have had discussions
with the library and we very much want the library to be in this spot and so we are working
as hard as we can with them to do that. It is our understanding that they are in the process
of putting together a vote, which will go to the public that includes not only funding to allow
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them to occupy this space, but also some other facilities elsewhere in the city. We very
much want that project. We are working with them to do that. We, obviously, don't have
a signed lease with them, nor are they in a position to sign that lease at this time, but
that's very much our intention to do it and, you know, I don't want to be too flippant about
it, but, you know, it kind of reminds me of that old joke about the guy who really prays and
prays that he could just -- if you could only win that lottery -- if he could only win that lottery
everything would be just fine and, finally, he's praying, God, if I could only win the
Powerball, you know, my life would be so much better, I could do such great things, and
this voice booms out from the heavens and says, well, meet me halfway, buy a ticket, you
know, and I think that's kind of what we have here. We are -- we are only half of the
equation --
Cavener: Sure.
Howell: -- on the library, but as far as the community amenity, as far as the -- as the
amenity that it makes for our development , this is very much something we want and it's
something we are working as hard as we possibly can for, but we are not fully in the
driver's seat on that item.
Cavener: Madam Mayor, follow up. I recognize, yes, you are only half of the equation.
Should things not prove to be successful with the library, do you guys have a backup plan
in mind?
Howell: Madam Mayor, Councilman Cavener, yeah, we have had discussions. I don't --
I can't tell you we have got a definite backup plan. We have had discussions and there
is some other public use kind of opportunities that have been discussed for that site, but,
again, that's -- that's very much our mindset and model and if you -- if you saw in the
animation what that plaza space is designed to do is to be a very public welcoming space
and if it wouldn't be a library -- again, our first preference -- there are other public kind of
community -- whether they be theaters or other similar things that we very much would
like to have there.
Cavener: Madam Mayor, one additional question. Mr. Howell, you talked at great length
about the sound study and you will have to forgive me, I think it was before our last public
hearing that I reviewed that sound study, but I didn't recall seeing anything about including
the backup alarms that -- that the vehicles produce when they are backing up being
included in that sound study. Can you refresh my memory if that was included and -- and
what the results were?
Howell: Yeah. There is no specific reference to backup alarms. The -- the Winco vehicles
don't use backup alarms on their trucks that backup.
Cavener: Really?
Howell: And any -- any of the things that I think we were talking -- if I'm -- this goes back
a ways, but if I remember kind of some of the conversation it was, well, what about all the
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forklifts and all that stuff that goes on. The forklifts are all internal, so they are -- they
aren't running around outside and so, therefore, there is no backup alarms.
Cavener: Thank you. No more questions for right now, Madam Mayor. Thank you.
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: Madam Mayor. Thank you, Mr. Howell. To follow up on Mr. Cavener's question
about -- about the library and the civic aspect of your -- of your proposed project, I -- I
think that something civic is essential, only because it's a real big part of the designation
that you're seeking. So, there needs to be a Plan B just in case -- just for the mere
purpose that, you know, these bonds that are voted by the public or the libraries
sometimes don't come to fruition and so it's important that you have a Plan B in place as
part of the designation that you're seeking. It's a big part of what this development should
be. Number two, can you -- can you give us some more feedback on the conversations
with Brighton Corp, David Turnbull, and the agreement that you're seeking for access off
a Fox Run?
Howell: Excuse me. Madam Mayor, Commissioner -- or Councilman Bernt, first as to the
public use, I -- I don't know how more directly I can say it than as I responded to
Councilman Cavener --
Bernt: Right.
Howell: -- that that is -- the public use is extremely important. As you note that's for part
of the use development here and -- and I suppose that the safeguard, if that's really what
your question is, ultimately down the road is we wouldn't get approval for a use other than
that if we tried something else. So, by -- you know, I don't know what else to tell you on
that.
Bernt: That's fine.
Howell: As to the negotiations and discussion with Brighton, you have -- obviously you
have Brighton Corporation's correspondence in the record before you. I think that's about
as positive as we can possibly say, you know, the -- Mr. Turnbull is certainly a man of
some repute and integrity in this community and so I think that stands for itself. The
process is -- is that in order for us to acquire that right of way we don't go and have
individual negotiations with Brighton Corporation in order to get that property acquired,
because we are in the process of doing this through a STAR agreement we have to go
through the -- the public acquisition process and so ACHD will conduct the right of way
cost analysis and will tell us what it's going to cost us and since this connector road is an
integral part of this project and is part of the required permitting for this project, not only
as I expect it would be from your perspective, but as it has been for ACHD as well and
indirectly ITD through the connection to Fox Run, we don't really have any option. They
are going to set a price and that's the price we are going to have to pay to acquire it and,
ultimately, all of that gets rolled up into the STAR agreement as well, but can I tell you we
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have a contract that is signed, you know, either an ink or in blood, no, absolutely not. But
given the conditions of approval that we have with A CHD and the conditions of approval
that staff is recommending here, absent that acquisition of the right of way, absent that
connection to Fox Run, this project doesn't happen anyway.
Bernt: Madam Mayor, follow up, please. Mr. Howell, so what you're saying is it's not a
matter of negotiation here, we are just waiting -- it's the process and -- and with the STAR
agreement through and -- and the figure that you will receive from ACHD is what we are
waiting -- waiting for and so there is not going to -- so, it's not a negotiation is what I'm
saying.
Howell: Madam Mayor, Councilman Bernt, not in the sense of, you know, is it possible
that we -- we won't come to an agreement on what those numbers are -- no, it's not in --
not a negotiation in that sense. There is, frankly, some room in the system when ACHD
comes back and says here is what the -- the right of way cost is, there is an opportunity
to challenge some of those costs, but at the end of the day we have a price and that's the
price that -- that we will pay and that Brighton Corporation will accept for that right of way.
De Weerd: Any further questions, Mr. Bernt?
Bernt: I have more. I can -- I can pause.
De Weerd: Okay. Any further questions from Council? Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Madam Mayor. So, I'm -- I'm staring at the -- the findings that are required to
grant the variance. I guess a few questions. How -- to me I -- I feel like at least right-in,
right-out and at least one would be critical for the benefit of Fox Run. I can imagine if --
if, you know, a lot of these people were trying to take advantage of Fox Run to get out
even if they were just going to turn right, that it could cause issues for the neighbors down
there that might want to go out and turn left on to Chinden when a lot of that traffic could
be dissipated simply by having a right-out onto Chinden. So, I guess my two questions
are how critical are the entrances on Chinden and in attempting to define -- to -- to meet
the finding of -- at least number three there that the variance can be detrimental to the
public health, safety and welfare -- if they are critical, could the one that includes the left
turn also be just a right-in, right-out to improve the safety level of that intersection?
Howell: Madam Mayor, Councilman Palmer, I think, excuse me, the -- the ITD has
approved each one of those accesses and part and parcel of the IT D approval is public
safety and traffic safety. So, they have already taken a look at that and, then, given their
approval for those right-in, right-out and left-in access. So, yes, certainly all of those
accesses are critical to the site and critical to the traffic flow and patterns, which is backed
up, in turn, by the traffic studies that have been done and submitted to both ACHD and
ITD and which are in the record here as well, so -- and I guess I -- I might have been
coughing or perhaps missed a part of your question , so I'm not really entirely sure what
-- if the left-in is the concern at Bergman at the top off of Chinden, you will note that the
left-in there is protected by the islands that are shown depicted on Chinden Boulevard
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and with the additions of the decel and acceleration lanes, those did pass ITD scrutiny for
those -- those public safety issues. So, I know I'm -- I hope I'm answering the question
that you have asked on that, but, yes, all of these accesses together are part of the overall
traffic flow and, then, taken together with the signalized access at Fox Run are what
makes the project work.
Palmer: Thank you.
De Weerd: I guess maybe more direct on the question on the variance is walk us through
the three findings that need to be made and how -- how can the city say these -- these
findings can be met. So, if you can kind of walk through the variance, can't right -- grant
a right or a special privilege that isn't otherwise allowed in the district . To me the other
corners have already exceeded these. This puts this piece of property at a disadvantage
if you don't have the same access. We argued that when ITD gave access to Eagle Island
development where the Fred Meyer is by granting them that -- that access, because we
had been restricting that access specifically because of that. When they granted that
access they gave special privilege and that disadvantaged the other three corners that
are in our city and -- and so to me that -- I probably just answered my own question, but
if you will go through two and three would be great.
Howell: Yeah. Madam Mayor, thank you.
De Weerd: Sorry. I was really angry when ITD granted those accesses. So, still very
fresh in my mind.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Palmer: And before he gets to that, I -- I appreciate that explanation, because -- well, not
when I was trying to understand the language of it to -- because what is district. Does it
-- really does it just mean in the area with what you explained or does -- I don't know, what
does a district necessarily refer to? So, if that means that qualification -- or for me unless
the district --
De Weerd: In my head it does, but I'm not a planner or an attorney, so -- I play one every
week up here at the podium, but -- or -- Sonya or Bill, can you tell us what the district --
definition of district means?
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, so you're talking about the -- the type of
zoning district that this is. So, commercial, residential, those types of districts and so
that's what the reference is referring to, is this a special privilege that would not be allowed
in the district and I think what Sonya was talking about is we have a provision that requires
a variance to access state highways, but if you recall we had another project just down
the road that there also is a provision in your code that you can grant exceptions to your
own ordinance by the approval of ITD to access. So, you do have a revision in the code
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that doesn't require a variance at all. If ITD does grant access to the state highway you
could vary your own standard and that's 11-3H3. So, you have two ways to get there in
this besides the variance process, you also have the provision that already gives you the
ability to do it without a variance.
Howell: So, Madam Mayor and -- and perhaps also additionally Councilman Palmer, I did
want to specifically note and -- and I see that I -- I did skip that in my initial presentation
on -- on the variance request, since these are approved ITD accesses, if -- if the City
Council were to approve them under 11-3H4 as your city attorney has just indicated, we
would withdraw the variance request. So, either way that goes the City Council can
approve them. Back to the issues, Madam Mayor, that -- that you raised. First -- the first
one, obviously, is this -- this is a condition of approval that has been granted others and
whether it's unfortunate or not for the Fred Meyer side of it , it was granted and to grant
that and, then, deny it here I think is to deny a condition for us that was granted to others
-- and now since I flipped the pages I have got to get back to my right page, so excuse
me a second.
De Weerd: I'm sorry, Ken. I probably could argue this for you, so I withdraw my question.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, maybe just to remind you in this context
it is you as the deciders of fact that get to decide in this context of what does your
ordinance mean and to what is a grant of a right or a special privilege. Is it a grant or not.
Is it -- really be an undue hardship based on the characteristics of the site. A mile down
the road with a different project you did consider the fact that there was an undue
hardship, because that had significant frontage along a state highway, as well as an
arterial and that was part of your reasoning that you used to grant the variance in that
particular instance. And the last one was that in that particular instance the access points
and having the additional access in that you made a determination as a Council that that
was actually a benefit to the public health and safety of the site by allowing more access
points and not having such limited access. So, it is ultimately your -- your decision in
interpreting your code on what those three provisions require. But, again, you can under
your other provisions grant them, since they now do have permission from ITD you can
invoke 11-3H3 and grant access without a variance.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Nary. And --
Howell: So, Madam Mayor, I guess I could -- I could take a quick shot at it. You know,
we --
De Weerd: I don't think you need to.
Howell: Okay. Fair enough.
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De Weerd: Just to save you time. Any other questions from Council at this time?
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: Mr. Howell is -- is -- are you able to answer questions about the design aspect,
like that was presented in the video at the end as far as what Winco is going to look like
compared to the other buildings on the property? Is that something you can answer or is
it a member of the development team that could?
Howell: Yeah. Madam Mayor, Councilman Bernt, I -- maybe.
Bernt: Okay.
Howell: So, I guess -- but -- but if I need to call somebody else up we certainly can.
Bernt: Okay. So, is -- or is the Winco going to have the same type of look, you know,
finishes as the other buildings, including the plaza and other larger --- you know, the
anchor stores toward the southeast portion of the -- are they going to have the same
finishes?
Howell: In general, yes.
Bernt: What does that mean in general?
Howell: Well, I -- I guess I -- what --
Bernt: Is it going to flow?
Howell: It would be matched -- it's flow. It's -- it's architecturally put together properly that
way and -- and I can try to get Craig Slocum to come up, the architect, on the project.
Maybe he is better to answer that than me. So, if you don't mind I will turn that over to
him.
Bernt: Sure.
Howell: Thank you.
Slocum: Good evening.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Slocum: Craig Slocum. 200 North 5th, Boise, Idaho. Here with CSHQA. We have --
and I believe Sonya presented it. We have got a material pallet and each of the buildings,
whether it's Winco or a mid anchor or our two story live-work units, will have a similar
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pallet of stone, CMU, stucco, some metal highlights. So, there will be a -- it will be a
theme, if you will, at least it will be -- feel like it all fits together.
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Madam Mayor. Craig, I don't have any questions for you. Nice to see you,
though. Happy New Year. Mr. Howell, I did have an additional question for either you or
somebody may be representing a potential tenant. You know, as a Council we don't ever
try and look at who is going in to each particular place, but there has, obviously, been a
lot of dialogue about a potential tenant should this facility be approved. You touched on
their operating hours briefly in your opening testimony and so you had mentioned that
virtually all of the Winco stores are 24 hours. Can you give us a ballpark of how many
Winco -- or Winco-owned stores don't operate under a 24 hour model?
Slocum: Yeah. Madam Mayor, Councilman Cavener, I may be off like one or two on the
number of stores. Approximately 126 stores Winco operates, all but about six of them
are 24 hours. Those six are in either unique situations or smaller, not -- not the full size
store that we are dealing with here, but are smaller, more like neighborhood type stores,
but reduced size, like has become popular for some retail operations. By and large the
vast -- vast majority in that range of 126 or seven verses six are 24 hour operation.
Cavener: Madam Mayor, quick follow up. So, none of those stores, though, you say are
the same size as -- as the store that's proposed on this particular site plan?
Slocum: Of those six that's correct.
De Weerd: Okay. Anything further at this point from Council? Okay. Thank you. Okay.
We will start our public comment portion. Mr. Clerk, I will turn this over to you.
Coles: Thank you, Madam Mayor. First on the list I would like to invite Michael Arnold to
address the Council.
De Weerd: Good evening. If you will, please, state your name and address for the record.
If you will pull the mic up so people can hear you. Thank you.
Arnold: Madam Mayor and city -- Members of the Council, I'm Michael Arnold. I live at
972 West Bacall Street in Paramount.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Arnold: Residential communities typically offer a refuge where children can play, walk on
city streets -- on the community streets and sidewalks. Unfortunately, when Linder Village
becomes a reality that's likely -- likely to change for Paramount. When Bergman is -- was
-- is to extend it to the proposed east-west connector it's going to create an enticing
opportunity for those living outside of Paramount to cut through our neighborhood when
traveling to Linder Village. Now, Kittelson and Associates addressed this cut through
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traffic in their study. However, I believe they grossly underestimated the volume of cut
through traffic by speaking only to the traffic likely to cut through Paramount from Linder
Road on the Cayuse Creek than using Arliss or Bergman. If you look at the traffic
distribution study also included in the Kittelson study, it reveals that an equal volume of
traffic is projected to visit Linder Village for both Linder and Meridian Road. That's roughly
12 percent of the expected traffic and an even greater percentage, 14, is expected to
travel down McMillan Road to get to that area. When you have anticipated 296,000 -- or
28,967 vehicle trips per day arriving at Lind er Village, 11,000 of those daily travelers will
be traveling on those three roads, Linder, McMillan and -- and Meridian. So, you have
got to ask what percentage of those 11,000 people are going to be motivated to cut
through Paramount to get to Linder Village when the traffic gets difficult? Kittelson
projected that 405 vehicles per day will cut through Paramount from Linder Road. That's
11.7 percent of the total volume of traffic traveling down Linder Road to get to Linder
Village. If you take that 11.7 percent and apply it against all of the percentages on
McMillan, Linder and Meridian Road, it seems -- it puts -- 1,300 vehicles are going to
travel through Paramount to get the Linder Village. There are at least four roads in
Paramount that are accessed by McMillan and Meridian that offer virtually direct routes
to Linder Village and the Kittelson study made no mention of the new 280 foot -- 280
apartment complex Prelude At Paramount down on the -- on the northwest corner of
McMillan and Meridian Roads. Prelude To Paramount directly abuts Paramount itself and
it has direct access to Linder Village by way of Cagney or Valentino and, then, onto
Bergman Road. I honestly believe that just about every resident to Prelude To
Paramount, if they are going to Linder Village, is going to travel up either Cagney or
Valentino to get there, rather than go all the way around McMillan , up Meridian or Linder
to get to the other entrances.
De Weerd: I'm sorry, you will need to wrap up.
Arnold: I also envision vehicles on Meridian Road coming up Producer or Director to get
to Linder Village. Currently we have 575 K through 12 children that walk or bike to schools
within the adjacent -- within or adjacent to Paramount each day and both are --
De Weerd: Sir, I'm sorry, you will have to wrap up.
Arnold: Okay. Imagine the effect of 1,300 additional vehicles every single day traveling
through Paramount to get to Linder Village in the least amount of time. You have to
question what that's going to do to the character of the community and the safety of the
residents. I don't honestly believe that Bergman needs to connect through from the
proposed new neighborhood onto the east-west connector.
De Weerd: Thank you for your testimony. Council, any questions?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
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Cavener: Sonya, can you pull up maybe a -- a map around that area that shows those
streets? Mr. Arnold, I recognize you live over there, I don't, and I have tried to avoid the
area, because I want to stay focused on the application at hand, but could you maybe
walk us through some of those traveling that you were -- you are concerned about, so the
Council can see that?
Arnold: Well, there was a -- I had a slide presentation also, but, unfortunately, I use an
iMac computer at home and the drive was formatted for an iMac and your Windows
system can't see it, but Sally had once before shown a picture of the city -- of the
Paramount with the yellow roads going up through it . Price goes from McMillan Road
and cuts around Prelude At Paramount and both Cagney and Valentino's enter that.
Cavener: Mr. Arnold, sorry, I don't mean to interrupt. If we -- if we can just wait to hear
your testimony until we have got a map in front of us so I can see what you're talking
about. You, obviously, know your streets and your community very well, but -- but I don't
and I want to try and get a good picture of what you're trying to address.
De Weerd: There is a maps --
Cavener: Madam Mayor, in light of the technical issues that our IT department now
probably -- Mr. Arnold, I'm going to keep your note written down. It sounds like there is
some other people maybe with some testimony that have some maps -- it looks like we
have got it pulled up now. It just -- if that's something that we can -- we can look at at a
later point in time I would appreciate it.
Arnold: Okay.
De Weerd: Thank you. Appreciate your testimony.
Coles: Wendy McKinney is next.
McKinney: Good evening. Nice to see you again.
De Weerd: Nice to see you.
McKinney: Wendy McKinney. 1225 West Bacall in Paramount.
De Weerd: Thank you.
McKinney: And as you know this property has been trying to develop since 2007.
Residents have relied on the Comprehensive Plan as we purchased homes there and as
everyone knows you're putting together a new Comprehensive Plan. So, we hope that
we can have as much confidence in the old one as we will in the new one and that you
look at those things to design the types of buildings that should be going on different
parcels. There are certain requirements that you as a city have specified for this property
on the Comprehensive Plan. They do not include a 24/7 building. They do not include
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anything larger than 60,000 square feet. And so we ask that you look at your design as
you look at this subdivision and this area as they have done it. Next slide, please. When
they came to you first they didn't even come anywhere close to what you had asked them
to do. So, all of these wonderful improvements have almost gotten us to the point where
we should have started the discussion two years ago. This is what you said. Fifty-four
acres designated for an MCU. An MCU is an area that has interest to a small group of
people within three to four miles of the property. As they have shown you by their own
map, all of Meridian is interested in this property. That means they put too much and too
large pieces of things in this area. It doesn't qualify under this smaller area that it should
have been designated as. Next. I'm concerned mostly about the 24/7. If you look at this
vicinity map you can see that the C-G designated areas can have the larger buildings,
they can have larger -- many different properties with larger sizes and footprints . They
can have 24/7. But you specifically stated in these red and blue zones that they could
not do 24/7. Why? Too close to residential. Next. This is the positioning of the southwest
corner. You can see Walgreens is there. Stinker Station is there. Now, I want you to
imagine and flip this. Next. If you flip it this is what it looks like, as if it was sitting on
Chinden and Linder. That's 2,000 square feet from the Walgreens that could be a 24/7
and is other places and the existing home at the time. Now, if you look at Winco, if it had
been placed on the very corner it would have still been 1,400 square feet away from an
existing home that's been there since 2007. Next. This is what they have now. I'm sorry,
a wall is not going to block in the least. Noise just doesn't settle down again like ash when
it goes up. Noise is going to go over that wall. You're -- I got it wrong. Six hundred feet.
You're still close to those existing homes. What do they have? What options do they
have? They can choose to build a Waremart, which fits in a C-C zone that should be for
the MUC designation that you have. They could enclose a delivery bay. They are not
going to do that.
De Weerd: I'm sorry, you will need to wrap up.
McKinney: I'm wrapping up. Thank you. Can you switch back to the next one? This is
what they could have done. They didn't. Next. We hope that you won't completely blur
the line between a C-G and C-C, that you won't have lawsuits from businesses that could
have been 24/7 that you did not allow to be 24/7 and we hope that we don't turn into a
California. We trust you. We appreciate your time. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Joe Marshall is next.
Marshall: Joe Marshall. 5937 North Arliss Avenue here in Meridian.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Marshall: So -- I'm sorry?
De Weerd: Good evening.
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Marshall: Good evening. Yeah. I have been working on this one since 2007 when the
Fred Meyer originally wanted to come here. So, I'm very familiar with this. I taught land
planning. I have gone through the whole Comprehensive Plan. I hope you got an
opportunity to read my nine page dissertation. I threw in some opinion there, but, again,
this is about your opinion and what we are doing here. I would point out at this -- okay.
That these are -- this whole design is based on these entryways and it is based on traffic
flow that must go in this direction. Okay? Now, staff has recommended denying the
variance, of which I am absolutely glad and appreciate it, because that is one of the most
important things we can do for this city. Not for this local little group. Chinden is a major
thoroughfare east-west. We only have three. We have got the interstate, we have got
Chinden, and we have got State Street. This is COMPASS. The city's agreed to it.
Everybody's agreed. I know -- I went to -- to Eagle and testified against that full entry way
for the Fred Meyer and, guess what, ITD has had to come back and limit it now, just like
we did all of Eagle Road. It was supposed to be frontage roads and it's a mess, does not
operate at designed speed. This is going to -- same thing is going to happen here if we
keep doing this, if we keep adding these access points. The city had a plan back in 2006.
I saw this -- it is on the books and has been for the past 12 years, 13 years now that I
know of, showing that these two access points that I have got encircled here, they are --
previously they are signalized intersections and this whole property was supposed to be
serviced by these. It's been on the books since '06 that I know of and probably before
that. If you access at those two -- those two locations you are -- your -- your design is
going to be crossed like this. That's going to put in jeopardy both these zoning and the
preliminary plat that they have offered you. So, it kind of goes hand in hand. If the -- if
those are denied, then, this really does need to be redesigned. If you approve the
preliminary plat and zoning, you probably need to approve those accesses. My opinion
is that is to the detriment of this entire valley. One last thing . I have a list of questions
that I would like to approach the clerk with. That's a list of seven questions that I really
think you need to address and not specifically to this project, but generally to development
in this valley, specifically to Chinden Boulevard, but also to help give staff direction. To
help the citizens understand what your direction is. To help developers so they
understand what you're expecting when they come here. And it will make your lives easier
if everybody understands the answers to these questions. So, if I could answer any
questions that's all I have got.
De Weerd: Thank you, Joe.
Cavener: Thanks, Joe. Nice seeing you.
Coles: Greg Reynolds is next.
De Weerd: Good evening. Please state your name and address for the record .
G.Reynolds: Greg Reynolds. 1166 West Bacall Street. And forgive me I'm going to read
really fast. Mayor, Councilors, I share the concerns that have been brought up by other
residents already and those that will be expressed after I'm done speaking. The only
times that we have seen positive improvements made to this application is when the city
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requires it. So, I appreciate the opportunity we have to express our concerns and for you
to take action. I wrote in before the last scheduled meeting to highlight my concerns. So,
tonight I wanted to focus my comments on one very specific area , the noise that would
be generated if 24/7 deliveries are allowed in this development. As I mentioned in my
written testimony and as supported by the public testimony from the P&Z meeting and as
mentioned tonight, the loudest and most recognized noise source in this type of
development, the backup beepers, was excluded from the models, because they fall
under required safety features and I don't know, maybe Winco has gotten around the
mandated safety features somehow, maybe they are just talking about their trailers, but
all the other trucks that are going to come and deliver to Winco will have those safety
beepers. We do video from the Eagle store from previous meetings that shows that. I'm
not disputing that this legal loophole exists and was exploited in this case, but it doesn't
mean it shouldn't be considered by this Council as a common sense item affecting the
rights of current residents. The study sites about 50 decibels of anticipated noise, but
backup beepers are mandated to be about a hundred decibels, so for reference, a diesel
locomotive is 80 decibels. So, it would literally be quieter to drive a train through that field
than to have a backup beeper. I dusted off some cobwebs from my last physics class a
few decades ago. This means that those backup beepers are 32 times louder than what
the models assumed. So, let that sink in. Thirty-two times louder. Retaining walls such
as those in this design are estimated to reduce noise by about ten decibels at most and
also the distance -- everything like that -- it's going to sound like a muffled alarm clock in
your house every night. Allowing 24/7 deliveries with an open loading dock will result in
noise that carries throughout Paramount and Lochsa Falls all night long. Surely Winco is
not so much more inept than the other nearby businesses that they cannot figure out a
way to deliver from 6:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m., store the goods until their overnight shelf
stocking occurs. I ask this Council to, please, restrict the delivery of goods to Winco and
other businesses in this development to the same 6:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. hours that were
established for similar businesses nearby. Costco, Walmart and Walgreens. This is not
an unreasonable request by any means. On a more personal note, this application has
been a very long process and we know it's coming to an end. You've pro bably noticed
that the energy level is down a bit compared to last year. I think I can speak for those
residents I have been working with for 18 months when I say it comes a general feeling
of disappointment. When Linder Village was first announced there was a palatable sense
of excitement in the neighborhood. We have been waiting for so long for more services
and entertainment to be available in this area. The outrage of what was in the original
application was inevitable. We had a glimmer of hope a year ago when the application
was remanded back to P&Z, but it has been nothing but disappointment from there.
Disappointment that these developers lack either the creativity or drive to provide a design
more attuned to the active and family oriented Paramount way of life . Disappointment
that the more we interacted with Winco it was apparent that the beloved company was
just another heartless corporate machine. Perhaps most disappointing of all is that so
many bureaucracies claimed to know our neighborhood better than we do, the people
who live there, walk our dogs there, go to school and church there, any other number of
things all within our neighborhood. But we are here tonight because we care about the
future of this city. My wife and I will be virtually empty nesters by the time this is built out.
Most of the reasons we moved to Paramount will be moot, but we have hundreds of
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friends and neighbors who will be affected by this. So, I asked you, sincerely, please,
listen to the citizens' concerns tonight and comprehend what they need now and in the
future and require these changes to ensure that we get the most we possibly can with
what we have been given by this applicant.
De Weerd: Thank you.
G.Reynolds: Thank you.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Mr. Arnold, a couple questions for you. Appreciate your comments about
sound. That's, obviously, something that's a high priority of mine. Do you not believe,
then, that the -- the -- the --
De Weerd: Can you pull your microphone --
Cavener: Sorry, Madam Mayor. Thanks. I know that it's hard to hear in the back. Do
you -- what's your take on -- on the applicant's reorienting of that large anchor called
Winco on the map and orienting their -- their loading dock, so that it's -- it's facing -- I
mean it's towards Linder and it's -- it's -- I think faces away from the homes that are in
Paramount and it sounds like you and I both have a similar concern about that piece. Talk
to me about why you don't think that this is being resolved by the way they have re-orient
-- re-oriented the building.
G.Reynolds: Madam Mayor, Councilman Cavener, yeah, I agree this orientation is so
much better than what we had the first time. It definitely will help. The problem is,
unfortunately, sound, as was mentioned earlier, doesn't really adhere to map -- plat maps
and building design. If they maybe built a shell -- some of these you see at a concert hall
to reflect sound, that would certainly make a difference. That would take all that noise
and push it that way. As it stands with a flat wall you're going to get a little bit of reflecting
of anything that's right against that wall, but you start to get away from that and sound is
just going to go right over it, right around it.
Cavener: Madam Mayor, follow up. The commentary about the character of this
proposed complex not meshing with -- with the Paramount neighborhood, we just all saw
a video that kind of laid things out. Tell me what about that you don't feel meshes with
the character of your neighborhood.
G.Reynolds: The video that you saw was focused on the little plaza, the one piece that
everybody loves. That's the piece that we got after that first design ; right? So, none of
that was there. But if you look around what was shown maybe from a very high view,
things like that, was those big seas of parking lots. We have the big parking lots
surrounded by big buildings that literally turn their back on the neighborhood that they
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claim to be a part of. That's really the big piece. I think if -- if you refer to the letter that
my wife submitted, Sally Reynolds for the record, she had a link to a development that
was being done I believe in San Diego that showed how you could greatly incorporate all
sorts of businesses, residential, everything in such a way that it flows seamlessly with the
neighborhood and you know -- and it really does come down to the fact that Winco doesn't
fit; right? I mean if we say that Winco is going to be in this development, which almost
certainly is at this point, it just doesn't fit and so what we are faced with is where do we
put that big box. If we -- if Winco really cared about the neighborhood, really cared about
the residents, it would be up in the northwest corner. I mean my 11 year old came up with
a design. She said why don't we put it in the northwest corner. Why don't we call it Linder
Summit. Why don't we put a big mountain on the backside to block the view, they can
put trees and signs and everything and that big summit would be Winco, everybody would
look at that and say how cool is that. But we have a big box that turns its back to the
neighborhood.
Cavener: Thank you.
G.Reynolds: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay.
G.Reynolds: Thank you.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Maybe a request for the other folks that are -- are bringing testimony this
evening. I understand that passions are high on this particular type of application, but I
just would encourage you to be neighborly. We don't need to make disparaging
comments about the applicants or any potential tenants. I think it's important that we be
good representatives of our community and show our best. So, even though we may feel
one way, let's try and refrain from that sideways conversation up here. I would appreciate
it.
De Weerd: Okay.
Coles: Sally Reynolds is next.
S.Reynolds: Good evening, Madam Mayor and Members of the City Council. My name
is Sally Reynolds. I reside at 1166 West Bacall Street in Meridian. I am here tonight
representing the Paramount HOA -- I am here tonight representing the Paramount HOA
advisory board and as such would be -- request to have ten minutes. Okay. Thank you.
The revised concept plan brought before Council today is a reflection of the direction the
applicant received from City Council and ACHD. Three items remain. Residential to
commercial road connectivity, Winco operating delivery hours and safety measures and
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noise mitigation in phase one. First roads are under ACHD purview. The city staff report
was issued before the ACHD report was issued. ACHD's 52 page staff report was
uploaded just hours before the Planning and Zoning Commission meeting. We asked
Planning and Zoning for a continuance to review that report and also so that the public
can speak at the ACHD hearing on December 5th, but were denied. Paramount residents
took time off work to attend the ACHD hearing, which was held in the middle of the day,
but ACHD agreed only to explore traffic calming measures. We are depending on you to
hear these concerns and recommend a different approach for Bergman to ACHD.
Without McMillan Road being improved there will be cut through traffic in Paramount.
Four reasons why Bergman should not directly connect is that other similar commercial
areas in Meridian do not have residential connections at all. Punching Bergman through,
especially during phase one, will create another Magic View Drive scenario. ACHD knows
the existing traffic issues Paramount faces with high school traffic and speeding , so why
would they want to compound that. And, finally, Paramount will have access to Linder
Village through Fox Run. First here are some examples of nonconnecting residential
areas. The target and the Staples off of Eagle Road both have residential directly behind
them and do not connect. The Lowes on Eagle Road you can actually see a stub street
that was walled off so it does not connect to Records Road and the similar thing with
Walmart off of Overland, there is a stub street that was walled off as well. Second, you
understand the cut through traffic Woodridge faces on Magic View as a shortcut between
Eagle and Locust Grove. Paramount will be the same way. Meridian or McMillan Roads
are frequently backed up with stopped traffic for a half to three-fourths of a mile. This
picture was taken on a Friday before the 5:00 o'clock rush hour. This morning Meridian
Road was backed up for over a half mile. What is the likelihood that drivers will crawl
west along McMillan and make a right on Linder only to wait through two stop lights, which
may or may not be synchronized and potentially a 20 mile per hour school zone or will
they go through Paramount, down streets, past the elementary school, which has no
school zone speed limits, through a neighborhood with over 700 -- or 575 children who
walk and bike not only to school, but to friends' houses, church, scouts, extracurricular
activities, sports, music and art lessons. The ACHD report tried to downplay the cut
through traffic saying that drivers would have to go a half mile out of their way to go down
Cayuse Creek to cut through Bergman, instead of just going down Linder, so no one
would do that. In fact, this is their graphic. However, we see those drivers make that
choice every day when there is high school traffic or Linder is backed up, which will be a
lot more often now. This picture was taken the day before the prior City Council meeting.
The officer pulled someone over on the exact stretch that ACHD highlighted. So, here
are three solutions. The best scenario would be for Bergman to only go through to the
residential area as depicted. Another solution would be to wait for Berg -- to develop
Bergman until after phase one, so it doesn't scream for cut through traffic. When-if it's
connected we would like to see a traffic circle at the junction to the collector road and a
speed dip where Bergman connects to the development. Both those items can be
addressed in the DA. We also request two additional stop signs at Barrymore and Bacall,
so they now become four way stops and ACHD would be in charge of implementing those.
We also request that if Bergman is built that the sidewalks are required to be built with
phase one as well. Secondly, Winco operating delivery hours. We appreciate the
receiving docks facing towards Linder, but in the middle of the night loud noises will still
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travel to nearby residences. You can interpret your own city code to say that this land is
one contiguous piece of property that does abut a residential district because it is seeking
annexation that way, plus the precedent has been set by other retail stores, Walmart,
Walgreens and Costco, who all operate -- who all limit operating delivery hours. Finally,
in the staff report it says that the City Council can require further limitations when deemed
appropriate. Winco will already have a competitive advantage by operating 24/7. Please
at least limit delivery hours so families can sleep at night. During the ACHD hearing the
applicant's attorney said, quote: The commercial operations of Winco, the only real
outside operations are the trucks pulling in and meeting to the docking bay, which is
sealed to the back of the truck. All the delivery forklifts and the like are conducted inside
the store. There are no garage facilities and the like on the backside of that building.
Close quote. However, the noise study submitted stated from 4:45 a.m. to 7:00 a.m. they
observed, quote: A number of semi trucks and smaller street trucks making delivery.
Noises from forklifts and roll up doors at the rear of semi trailers, noise from hydraulic
equipment, presumably cardboard compactors, lift case and forklifts and some noises
from rolling carts while unloading smaller trucks. End quote. Add to this the engine
sounds idling, backup up beeping and brakes on semi trucks and that is a lot of noise,
not to mention the ambient noise of the increase in traffic. Winco is already being allowed
to have a larger footprint and potentially operating 24/7. So, please, limit the delivery
hours. The Meridian police agency comments encourage, quote: Limiting delivery times
as much as possible. The sound study did not include the backup beeping, because
under Meridian City Code safety warning devices required by law are exempt from noise
disturbances. Also exempt are, quote, sounds caused by devices or machinery that is
part of the use within the confines of a particular zoning designation that the device is
located. End quote. This means that Winco and its delivery operations can make any
amount of noise between 11 :00 p.m. and 6:00 a.m. and citizens will have no protection
under the city code. Their only recourse would be a costly public nuisance case.
According to a Winco 2013 application, a Winco store has, quote, approximately what --
excuse me -- 150 to 160 truck deliveries per week, consisting of all truck types, specifically
45 semi tractor trailers and about 105 other small delivery trucks. About eight semi tractor
trailers and 17 small trucks would access the site on the light days . On heavy days five
semi tractor trailers and eight other delivery trucks . Generally all deliveries would arrive
in the early morning, meaning that time we are talking about. Dwell time would typically
be less than 90 minutes, but could reach up to 120 minutes. End quote. So, that is 13 to
25 trucks arriving daily, 65 percent of which are smaller trucks that don't dock to the bay
and five to eight semis that will idol from 90 minutes to two hours each . The city council
of Arlington, Texas, approved the Winco with stipulations that delivery hours are not
between the hours of midnight and 6:00 a.m. Surely if Winco can follow those rules in
Texas they can follow them in the town right next to their headquarters. We ask that
Winco limit delivery times or completely enclose the receiving docks and build both the
live-work buildings in lot -- in Lot 16 as part of phase one. Lastly, safety and noise.
Limiting Bergman connectivity and Winco delivery hours would address most concerns
as summarized on this graphic. The last one I will mention is that ACHD recommended
that no designated crosswalks be constructed and -- excuse me -- until the residential
portion is built. We would hope that when the collector road is built at least one, if not all,
of the raised crosswalks will be constructed and, hopefully, one will be signalized. Please
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include this in the DA. Finally, we have been so busy focusing to ask the -- to ask the
developer to get the major points right we haven't even discussed some of the more minor
details, two of which are the outside elevation of Winco and the naming of the
development. Could we elevate the architectural standards for Meridian and not settle
for a boring bland brown box with materials that look tired and worn after five years. A
Winco built in 2010 in Roy, Utah, used full stack stone columns, wood beam and stucco
on the facade giving it a more substantial look that has weathered well over time. Ten
years. This elevation would blend more nicely with Paramount and the surrounding
commercial area. Also can we, please, ask the development be called something besides
Linder Village? A village implies a cozy feeling with small shops and a sense of
community, like The Village At Meridian. While running a Facebook page about Linder
Village people have messaged me asking if there will be an ice rink, a water feature, a
cool kids playground or a movie theater there, to which I have to sadly say no. So, please,
don't let them leverage the brand of the Village At Meridian on a development that is really
more like a shopping center or plaza. Due to limited time I am submitting for the public
record four exhibits. Exhibit A is the reason this application does not comply with findings
A and C according to the Unified Development Code in order to be annexed and zoned
into the city. Exhibit B comes directly from the staff's report and it has the comments in
green that citizens would like to see added everything from just some bike racks to a
couple wider sidewalks, things like that. Shrubs. C is the minutes from Arlington, Texas,
City Council meeting and D is a list of questions residents would like to hear discussed
during the deliberation. I also did submit two petitions, one which had over 150 signatures
for limiting the Winco delivery hours and another petition with over 325 signatures asking
for East Bergman traffic -- traffic calming problems to be taken seriously. So, I will
conclude with the slide summary using the key points for your consideration and stand
for any questions.
De Weerd: Thank you, Sally. Council, any questions?
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: Sally, hello, how are you?
Reynold: Good. How are you?
Bernt: Good. Can you -- could we go back to the traffic pattern slide and can you walk
me through your concerns in regard to cut through traffic. Wasn't -- it wasn't -- there we
go. Walk me through it, Sally, please.
Reynolds: Yeah. Sure thing. So, here we have Heritage Middle School. Right? And
this is a 20 mile per hour school zone, so as people are coming up here, if they are going
to want to get into Linder Village not only are they not wanting to go 20 miles an hour, but
the chances of them even continuing on that all the way up Meridian to make a left here,
to make another left when they can just get -- get in right here to Paramount and go that
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way, it would be a great temptation. Also you can see these are all the apartments that
Mr. Arnold referred to previously and I have no doubt they will already be accessing it,
you know, through the neighborhood, which makes sense, but they can access it through
Fox Run over here. So, this is where McMillan is continually backed up until -- as a matter
of fact, I -- I pulled into Paramount the other day, because I was running late and I was
backed up all the way back here and so I saw that all the cars were stopped and so I just
pulled in right here and tried to get home, because I had to get home to kids. So, it's
backed up a lot and I -- I mean as a driver I don't know that I would want to wait in this
long line to make a right to go through Rocky Mountain traffic, to go through this light and
this light -- like I said, we don't know if they are going to be synchronized -- just to go into
there and as for this direction, the high schoolers all the time they come out and this is
backed up -- sometimes this is backed up all the way here to Arliss and so if they see that
they don't want to make a left out there, they just as soon go right and they will cut to get
through to Meridian or they will go up here to Chinden and I could see them just doing
the same, to come -- come up here to cut here and, then, get over there to get out. So,
there is -- I mean there is so many different ways through that neighborhood and -- and I
understand that ACHD wants connectivity. I understand that. But there has -- there has
got to be some balance of a neighborhood, especially that's filled with school children and
where the school is right in the center and they are all in walk zones and that 600 kids
from K to five, that was only elementary. All of our Heritage students and Rocky students
are in the walk zone and Eric wasn't able to get me those -- those numbers in time. I do
know to the north I saw a letter from ITD and they were very concerned, you know, as I'm
sure you're well aware with signalization at Bergman, because they are worried about cut
through traffic coming south, you know, going into Temple and coming down Bergman
and for those Foxtail residents and I really have to hand it to them , you know, they are
protecting that light at the risk of all of those Fred Meyer shoppers , not -- and the Foxtail
people not being able to come out and make a left. I mean I honestly don't know how --
and so they -- but it's more important to protect the Foxtail residents and their quality of
life than it is to give commercial access to Fred Meyer shoppers. I mean I go over to Fred
Meyer all the time. I'm looking at this going I guess I will go out behind Fred Meyer and
make a left on Linder and come home. So, there is not really a good way for me to get
home from there. Yeah. That's true.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Sally, I appreciate that you presented your testimony here tonight. You touched
on connectivity, which is something I think that -- the reason why ACHD prioritizes it
because it -- it does reduce a lot of traffic that ends up on our streets and roads. Likewise,
I think we hear from our residents that live by that Target say, man, I wish I could drive
over there and shop. So, you're definitely tied in within the -- the Paramount community,
you don't have a homeowner's association, but am I hearing your testimony right that the
residents of Paramount don't want to be able to drive in their neighborhood?
Bernt: Right.
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Reynolds: They -- they do -- they do not, because this neighborhood is not what we
thought it was going to be. If it had adhered more to a mixed use community I think that
we would be more apt to do that, but with 20,000 cars per day coming in phase one and
30,000 in phase two, those numbers just are something that our neighborhood is willing
to deal with as a side effect. We would be -- we are happy to go out Cayuse Creek and
do 500 feet on Linder just to turn right into there. Plus we are supposed to have access
through Fox Run. So, we will have access without going out of our neighborhood. I mean
it's a mess. I think that I would be more in favor of this connectivity as well if Meridian
Road and McMillan Road were also being improved, so that there wasn't that intention
and I understand that that -- you know, that's not something that we can control right now,
but it is a factor in why Paramount residents don't -- aren't in huge favor of this cut through,
especially -- especially during phase one, because it's just -- it's just going to scream this
is the way you -- you go, because there is only going to be a few businesses back there,
so --
Cavener: Thank you.
Bernt: Thank you, Sally.
De Weerd: Any other questions? Thank you.
Reynolds: And I will give these to the clerk.
Coles: Andrew Ebright is next.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Ebright: Good evening. My name is Drew Ebright. I live at 1065 West Barrymore Drive,
which is located on the corner of Cayuse Creek, Bergman and Barrymore. We -- as Sally
has stated before, Paramount is a very highly populated area with lots of children. All
those children are out and playing in the roads every day and not -- that doesn't take into
account their younger siblings who are not at school yet, which like to come out and play
with their kids as well. We are very much against , as a neighborhood and individually,
the extension of Bergman to the connector street. There is no need for it. It's not
necessary. ACHD may want it, because it deals with their failed traffic policies they have
now of the failed situations we can't control because of our unprecedented growth, but
why push those traffic solutions through our neighborhood when it wasn't designed for
that. When we are talking about safety, I do architecture for a living and what's -- what
we really look for in architecture is relegated basically to the building code, which is a
limiting factor for life safety events. Why would anyone in their right mind try to push
forward a design that actually increases those life safety events and the possibilities of
recurrence with an additional 1,300 vehicle trips going through the neighborhood every
day for cut through traffic. I know ACHD says cut through traffic is minimal, but I disagree.
I use cut through traffic to go from my house in Paramount Subdivision to get down to
Eagle by way of all the roadways and subdivisions north of Chinden because it's faster
than waiting in line on Chinden. People do it. It's a fact. I would really like to see all the
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traffic calming measures, if you're going to really insist on having Bergman cut through,
absolutely, every single one of those available options, traffic tables, roundabouts, valley
gutters that are very deep -- all those things that need to be implemented as part of the
development agreement per phase one of the development agreement , not -- not waiting
until a future development. That doesn't do anybody any good. That's about saying we
don't -- we care more about the tax dollar than we do about our safety.
De Weerd: Can I ask you where you base that -- that comment on?
Ebright: As far as --
De Weerd: I'm sorry, but you're -- you're accusing Council up here, who hasn't made a
decision, saying that we are looking for the money, not for public safety, public traffic flow,
the same kind of traffic that you just say you do in other neighborhoods and it's okay for
you to do it, but no one else should.
Ebright: I'm not saying it's right, but I'm saying it's a definite thing that it does happen.
That's why it -- for ACHD to publicly state that it's not -- it's not an instance -- it's not
something that's done, that's -- that's wrong. That's -- it's false. We are -- we are just
looking to -- to the limit the life safety issues that possibly could occur by the extension of
Bergman into this development on the -- on the connector street. It doesn't need to
happen. We can go through -- go through Cayuse Creek, go out to Linder that way or we
can also go through our subdivision to Fox Run.
De Weerd: Can I ask you what kind of architect you are?
Ebright: I practice -- I'm not a licensed architect. I practice architecture. We specialize
in multi-family developments throughout the west and the Prelude At Paramount
apartments were one of my projects.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Next on the list is Alicia Milstein.
De Weerd: Thank you for joining us. If you will, please, state your name and address for
the record.
Milstein: Alicia Milstein. 584 West Dreyfuss Street.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Milstein: And I wrote a letter asking about the Comprehensive Plan and asked how Winco
is allowed for an MCC designation as it is 20 to 30 thousand square feet over what the
Comprehensive Plan allows for, but what I received back was the Comprehensive Plan
is a visionary document with flexibility into it and now the city wants to change the plan
again and I hope, in part, it is not to change the MCC to allow to have 80,000 square foot
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24/7 box store next to neighborhoods. I personally like the idea that the developer was
saying of having a non-24 hour Winco, smaller size, would fit much better in that place.
But I want to address something that I hope means something to parents, the danger that
is what it will create for children. ACHD estimates that five percent of the new traffic
created by Linder Village will come through Paramount. Five percent of 20,000 cars in
phase one and 30,000 cars in phase two a day. That's about 1,000 to 1,500 cars a day
driving through our neighborhood streets. ACHD said in the last meeting I attended that
safety is a concern. Two years ago my son was run over by a construction truck in the
Paramount neighborhood two days before Christmas and we were in the ICU for a while.
He miraculously lived, but lost the right front section of his brain. I have heard multiple
accounts of kids almost being hit -- and actually being hit in our neighborhood. Linder
Village is not a walk around destination like the Village on Eagle. People will not be
walking to Winco. It is a drive your minivan and do your monthly shopping destination.
The word Village here is just a PR word. Bergman has been addressed. Linder has been
addressed and is a complete mess, but Director in our neighborhood that connects
Meridian Road to the new -- to Fox Run that will connect to the Village -- Linder Village
will become a high traffic street, because if you're coming from Meridian and you won't
want to wait for the light to turn left on Chinden and, then, another light to turn on Fox
Run, you will drive down Director with no lights straight to Fox Run and pass the 55 plus
senior center, three Paramount neighborhood streets that feed into it and a pool that we
built on the corner of Director and Fox Run with kids crossing across that street. We have
a very unique situation as two schools reside in our neighborhood. There are over 600 K
through five kids riding their bikes and walking to school -- grade school daily. Now,
double and half that for the middle schoolers from Heritage walking, biking to and from
Paramount and the Rocky Mountain high schoolers walking, biking and driving into and
through the neighborhood -- anywhere else at 24 hour big box store like Winco would not
be allowed in walking distance from a school, but for some reason it's going -- it might be
allowed in this situation. I do not understand why Winco gets to break all the original
plans, when Walmart isn't granted a 24 hour variance, Walgreens or any other business
around us. Our neighborhood is being used and abused as a punch through to alleviate
poor planning -- road planning for 24 hour shoppers. Shopping through dark area hours
in the morning where our kids are trying to walk and ride their bikes to school, creating
more dangerous for our children. We should at the very least have protection measures
for our children. I haven't seen any being presented or addressed for the developer,
except a little jog in the road coming from Bergman for cars to slow down there. How
many other children have to be hit to have planning actually plan for them. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. I'm sorry, ma'am. We have a question.
Cavener: Mrs. Milstein, not a -- not a question just more -- more a comment. Thank you
for your testimony. I just want you to be aware every member of us up here is also a
parent. Three of us have young kids in the home and despite some of the testimony that
was shared earlier we really care about the safety of our kids.
Milstein: Thank you.
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Cavener: It is our primary -- at least for me my -- always my primary concern. I appreciate
you reiterating that tonight. I think it was good testimony to provide for everybody. So, I
just wanted to say thank you.
Milstein: Oh. Thank you.
Coles: Ann Huntington.
Huntington: Good evening. My name is Ann Huntington. I live at 797 West Bacall Street.
I grew up a few miles east of here actually. I'm a local physician. My husband's a local
classical musician. We have four young kids under the age of ten. I brought my family
back to Meridian to raise, you know, our kids in a safe family friendly environment and
many of my high school classmates did the same. When I travel for conferences I'm
proud to tell others about my hometown, as many of you are I'm sure, and I have recently
reigned in that enthusiasm so more people don't keep moving here, so --
De Weerd: Thank you.
Huntington: But I'm very complimentary of the work that you have done. Just wanted to
let you know that. It has occurred to me that we are representing, as we have mentioned
already, folks who cannot yet advocate for themselves , our children, but also I have had
patients who live at Veranda, some of them have dementia, some of them are out there
on walkers, they can't advocate for themselves. So, we need to keep that in mind. The
world is changing rapidly. Healthcare -- and I'm just going to take a little bit different spin
than other people have. Healthcare of necessity continues to see sweeping changes on
a continuous basis and has at times been criticized for being too reactive rather than
proactive. Some of these changes are needed to provide more value to the patient called
value based care, rather than the traditional productivity driven care. Some of these
changes are needed to reach the rising generati on, the millennials, through means such
as doing scheduling and communication with healthcare providers all online. Many
people are seeking for real help, not to live longer and be kept alive by medications, but
to live a truly healthy, happy lifestyle. So, my family loves to go to the Village At Meridian.
We go there because we love to spend time there. We spend money there because we
spend time there. Sometimes I go to the big box stores a short distance away, but only if
I can't find something online that I need or want. I anticipate that our children will do the
same. We are online shoppers for those kinds of things. We really need great places to
gather on this side of town. Let's face it, the Village At Meridian is getting a little bit
crowded. I previously lived -- you know, I shop regularly at Winco, but I had previously
lived behind a major retailer when I was in graduate school and it's pretty tough to sleep
with those beeping alarms when you're getting up at 4 :00 a.m. to go to work. So, I will
defer to Greg Reynolds for a more detailed account of why that's -- that doesn't work.
How do we bring value to this area? How do we encourage tech savvy online shoppers
to spend time here and spend money? By promoting a healthier, more active lifestyle.
We have got a lot of soccer fields, but we need to be innovative, we need to look towards
the future and -- and I don't feel that's represented in kind of being innovative and using
unique spaces, using community -- more community opportunities. I would definitely pay
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good money to kind of decompress after work and come to a place that is open and --
and where we can go to locally source an open air restaurant or gather with friends or
family and it doesn't seem like that has fully been considered. So, let's -- I just encourage
us to be forward thinking and we are setting kind of a precedent for what's going to happen
with future development in the valley. Thank you very much.
De Weerd: Thank you, Ann.
Coles: Andrea Carroll is next.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Carroll: Good evening. My name is Andrea Carroll. I represent an organization of
community members called Protect Meridian. My business address is P.O. Box --
De Weerd: Can you pull that closer to you. Thank you.
Carroll: My business address is P.O. Box 2006, Boise, Idaho. 83701. I would like to start
off this evening by saying thank you so very much for -- for the resistance to this
development that was provided from the Planning and Zoning Commission back in 2017
and 2018, as well as the direction that this body provided this developer a year ago.
Without that push this development as it currently stands would not have become what it
is. It is highly improved. I'm still going to ask that you deny the development, but I do
want to say thank you, because if you don't push back developers just assume when they
come here that they are going to get a rubber stamp of approval and until they experience
that push back they are not going to strive for something better and so thank you. I would
like to talk more in depth -- well -- well, I would say that all of the original points of my
original legal memo that I provided last year, they are still valid -- valid. I want to talk
about the variance, because it was mentioned that 11-3-3H-4 is sort of like a variance
shortcut and it's certainly my belief that this provision of Meridian City Code does not
comply with State Code 67-6516, because the only way to grant a variance is to have
findings of these three decision criteria and there is no shortcut in state code to a variance
with ITD approval and so I would ask that you focus on the -- the findings for a variance
that are required both by state code and by city code, because when cities have approved
variances without making those findings, the -- the Idaho appellate courts have rejected
those approvals. In City of Burley versus McCaslin Lumber the Court of Appeals rejected
a variance that was approved and the -- the -- the justification for the variance is very
similar to this development where the developer, essentially, wanted to provide a more
dense development, a more profitable development, because if you look at this parcel
you can certainly conceive of development -- perhaps not as dense, perhaps not as many
cars per day, that would be able to fit just fine with the access points that Joe was able to
show that were the original access points. This isn't a parcel that when you look at this
physical parcel there is any problem with creating a development that would work here,
it's just this is more profitable. That's not a good enough reason under state code to be
able to grant a variance and so I would ask that you not gloss over this in deliberations.
I think the -- the Costco application was referenced in the comments by the city attorney
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and I would just -- I would just urge you to -- to not gloss over the variance criteria,
because --
De Weerd: If you can summarize.
Carroll: I will. I believe that the city struggled in creating the written findings in that
particular application and I don't think it meets the requirements for finding this under city
code. I would just ask that you pay a lot of attention to that variance criteria. Thank you
very much.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Jonathan Kahnoski.
Kahnoski: Good evening. My name is Jonathan Kahnoski. I live with my wife at 357
West Heston Court. That's in the northeast corner of Paramount, Meridian, Idaho. 83646.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Kahnoski: Yesterday afternoon -- early afternoon I dumped in clerk's lap multiple
documents. I don't know if you remember them. One of those that was included, the
appendix one, which was a discussion of a rather crude alternate site plan that I think if
you go back and review you will see that it does, in fact, answer or respond to some of
the comments of the last few speakers, but since you have that packet -- and I hope you
read it or had a chance to read it -- I'm going to limit myself to a series of rhetorical
questions, starting with why are we here. Why after going on two years we still have the
same ugly strip mall, with the same tacky contemporary finishes scattered over the same
giant parking lot, with the same lack of any kind of pedestrian access or flow from one
end to the other. Restaurants are over here. Retail is over there. Winco is back there.
Why? And we have the same demand from the applicant's tenant for an industrial 24/7
operation and nighttime deliveries. Why aren't we demanding the applicant's tenant
choose between siting their industrial operation in an industrial zone or a modified
business plan that respects the tranquility of a residential neighborhood next door. Why
are we considering an application that is so contrary to the spirit and intent of the city's
Comprehensive Plan and the mixed use community zoning requirements? And speaking
of the Comprehensive Plan, after spending loads of staff and energy and asking citizens
for their participation in developing the Comprehensive Plan and, then, inviting people to
read the plan and use it to make decisions about where to live and work, why don't we
consider that Comprehensive Plan as a promise to the community that this is what the
city is going to do. Not guidance. Not suggestion. Not flexible. This is what we are going
to do. Eisenhower's plan for the invasion of Europe was we are landing in Normandy.
Not Pas-de-Calais, not Bay of Biscay, we are going there. He was, I guess, inflexible. Is
the Comprehensive Plan to be radically changed even undermined -- by the way based
on social media and mouse clicks responding to the applicant 's Facebook statistics and
even if, miracle of miracles, the applicant's tenant agreed to modify their business model,
how at this date can we trust them and if they violate their promises to whom do we appeal
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for relief and what will the city do? Fines? Jail time? Are we ready to say no to bad
development? Can we say -- can we insist on the Mustang GT we want and not accept
the Taurus they are offering. I strongly urge you to vote no. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: David Eastman is next.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Eastman: Madam Mayor, good evening. Council Members. My name is David Eastman.
I reside at 1192 West Bacall Street, Meridian, Idaho. First -- and I'm sure you will agree,
I am completely impressed with members of the community that have presented thus far
and I hope I don't detract from what they have said, because they have been concise and
accurate and they have -- what they have brought to the table tonight has been well
thought through. What I would also like to add on that is it's unfortunate that the applicant
has not relied on them more and by saying more I mean they really haven't relied on them
at all. These people are intelligent, they are professionals, we have -- and, you know, you
may disagree sometimes with his delivery, but Joe Marshall is -- he's a brilliant guy and
I have been thoroughly impressed with what he said tonight. That being said, I would
really like to step back -- and there has been a lot of obfuscation here and I would really
like to just step back and look at this for what it is. If you look at this and what they have
tonight and especially what they don't have, you can see starting at one in the projects --
of the project, they don't have connectivity, they haven't worked that out. It doesn't exist.
There is obfuscation and there is various adjectives as to where that is. It doesn't exist.
They don't have connectivity on Fox Run. They have two major buildings. They have an
80,000 square foot store and, then, they have a -- what could be construed as a strip mall
with the other building. They have 24/7 access and 24/7 delivery and I would invite the
Council to maybe ask the applicant how they skirt OSHA requirements for their beepers
on their backup truck and their forklifts. I'm very familiar with those requirements and I
haven't seen a business yet that can get around that. And, then, you may want to ask
them -- and they -- they may want to confer on this, but you may want to ask them again
if there are any Winco stores of similar size without 24/7 operations, especially maybe in
the Portland area. But they can answer that question. You're also looking at something
that has two access points off of Chinden and -- and various presenters have already
addressed that. There isn't a library. There is talk of a library. There isn't a library. And
so my point in saying this is if you look at this, I think you can agree that we can do better.
This is mediocre. Madam Mayor, when you did your conference call discussing the new
Comprehensive Plan process, the first thing that you mentioned was how proud you were
that the new Costco was going to be developed in concert with the neighborhood and the
surrounding community. This is not the case with this property. It could be better. It's
mediocre and it's -- it's a strip mall and a box and that box operates 24/7. There is no
access. There is no library. They want two access points off Chinden directly and it's just
-- it could be so much better for the community. Any questions?
De Weerd: Thank you. Any questions?
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Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Because you brought up the access there, so you don't want access off of
Chinden?
Eastman: For various reasons and for the same reason that Mr. Marshall elaborated. I
think he would be better to address that than I would. You can agree -- I mean if we flip
this -- sorry -- with the access points we are basically looking at Fred Meyer across the
street, a mirror image of Fred Meyer, except Fred Meyer won't have the signal that would
exist off of Fox Run, but Fred Meyer has these two access points off of Chinden and as
other presenters have elaborated, it's -- it's not gone well and so to add two more is -- is
-- I think you can agree it would be detrimental to Chinden and the traffic flow.
Palmer: Madam Mayor. And I apologize I didn't catch your address. Do you live -- are
you in Paramount?
Eastman: I am.
Palmer: Is one of your concerns traffic going through the neighborhood?
Eastman: It is.
Palmer: Would you -- and this is not trying to be a got you or anything at all. I'm trying to
figure out -- since I don't live over there -- do you think that the -- the accesses off of
Chinden would have any effect on the neighborhood traffic, whether they were there or
not?
Eastman: You know, Councilman Palmer, I think this goes to a bigger picture issue, which
is what they are trying to put in that neighborhood -- I'm sorry -- what they are trying to
put in that space adjacent to the neighborhood and what they are trying to have access
to is just not conducive to what should have access in that particular location. So , what
they are doing is they are sticking something in there that requires a bunch of cars to
come in every day and they have given numbers 30,000 and 1,500 going through the
neighborhood a day. It's just too much and it's been shoehorned in and, fortunately, I
have to say I have been very impressed with the Council and Planning and Zoning that
they have seen that and they have tried to scale it back and they have tried to limit that
and they have tried to encourage that access off a Fox Run and the backage road, but
what they are asking for -- and, again, if you take a look at it, it's a massive parking lot full
of cars and a strip mall and an 80,000 square foot store, they are putting that in and that
requires the access, but it doesn't belong there with the traffic flow that we need from
Chinden and the traffic that's being generated through the neighborhood.
Palmer: Madam Mayor. So, totally understand what you're saying. So, if -- if the
development is going to happen as it is --
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Eastman: Uh-huh.
Palmer: -- with the point that you had made that it would require the access, would you
prefer that the accesses not be granted on Chinden -- if it was going to be developed as
the rest of it is or leave them there to provide that way north out of there?
Eastman: Well, I think -- Councilman Palmer, I think you're asking if two wrongs make a
right.
Palmer: Yeah.
Eastman: No, I don't think the access on Chinden should be granted. If they want to
change and somehow figure out how their store can be served with access off of -- going
through on that backage road, then, that's great, but the -- the corner is not conducive to
what's being asked on the access.
Palmer: Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Eastman: Thank you.
Coles: Bruce Penske is next.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Penske: Hi. I'm Bruce Penske. Address is 998 West Bacall, Meridian. Most of these
other people live on Bacall, too. We are the ones that back right up to this property. I'm
the third door from Bergman, so I'm quite concerned about the access through Bergman.
Mike Arnold, who was one of the first ones with his traffic study, had a good point about
the traffic, that they didn't figure properly how many cars would come through and I think
the construction equipment would be coming through Bergman, too, when they built the
whole cross street there. I think there is so many concerns that have been aired tonight
that I don't know how the City Council can approve such a development without answering
all the questions that have still come about access, traffic -- there is still no agreement to
get the access to Fox Run and I don't think it should be allowed until they can get through
to Fox Run and have an east-west cross road through there and Bergman should not be
punched through. Councilman Palmer asked about that and if I had a choice I -- for me
-- and I live right there, I would rather see them on Chinden than Bergman and Bergman
should not go through. I can avoid Chinden, but I can't avoid Bergman, because I live
three doors from it and I take it every day, so -- the other thing is about the noise from
Winco and truck delivery. I agree with the other people that said that it should be limited
to daytime delivery hours, not overnight hours. If they can deliver in the daytime, they
can do their restocking overnight. That's internal in the store , so that doesn't bother
anybody. But I think there is a lot of -- a lot of questions on the entire development that
still haven't been met and I don't think it should be rushed through, even though the
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developers may not feel that the year they have waited already is not rushing it through,
but I think they still have some work to do. Thank you .
Coles: Greg Brown.
De Weerd: Good evening. If you will, please, state your name and address for the record.
Brown: I would be happy to. My name is Greg Brown. I represent the Russell
Corporation, which is a general contracting and construction management company here
in town and the address is 1940 South Bonito Way. Madam Mayor and Council Members,
I have been here for several of these and listened to lots and lots of testimony and -- and
you -- you're probably familiar with our firm and we have been active in any number of
major projects in the area, including the Village At Meridian and more recently extensive
development along Overland that Pins and Wahooz and so forth and so we see a lot of
these developments as well and are familiar with them and I would just -- I have listened
to all of the testimony now for several of these meetings and I have heard the same
objections over and over and over and over, but as I understand it, at least at this point,
unless I missed something, the only objection that you have at a staff level that exists at
this point from them at least is along the Chinden corridor and the access and that's been
addressed by both ITD and ACHD, as well as your legal counsel, and it doesn't appear to
me that -- that that can't be dealt with and I would point out just from a layman's
perspective, I guess, because I'm not a traffic expert or anything else, but the -- the access
that they are asking for along Chinden is identical to what the Village At Meridian has
along Eagle. I mean it mirrors it. So, with that I will stand for any questions you might
have and --
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Council, any questions?
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: While the objection does come from staff level, I -- and we do often override
them, I want to -- I always try to make sure that we understand why it is that we are going
against the recommendations from staff, so that we can at least make the argument as
to why, rather than just doing it because it feels good. But you mentioned you're
representing Russell Corporation, what -- if you don't mind me asking what -- what would
be your, yeah, level of participation in the development of the --
Brown: Our roles is defined at this point. We -- we support the project and we support it
going forward. We may or may not be involved in the project -- maybe a general
contractor or construction management role, but there is no defined role at this point.
Palmer: Madam Mayor. The reason I ask is the previous testimonial -- or somebody
previously had mentioned that there could be construction traffic go through the
neighborhood. I often see signs and everything -- not a construction entrance. I -- I don't
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know how well those worker -- or what other steps may be taken to avoid that kind of
thing. Given the -- who you said you're representing I thought maybe you might have any
commentary as to what steps can be taken to help prevent that to maybe satisfy some
neighbors' concerns on that.
Brown: Well, there are always lots of steps you can take on a temporary basis to, you
know, control traffic. That doesn't mean people aren't going to run over them. That
happens all the time, too. But, certainly, if there were concerns and specific concerns
those could be addressed.
Palmer: Okay.
Brown: Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Roseanne Hoffer.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Hoffer: Good evening. I appreciate the opportunity to speak. My name is Roseanne
Hoffer. I live at 3944 West Caragana Court in Meridian. I do not live in the Paramount
Subdivision. I want to commend the people who have presented tonight and have
expressed their concerns for safety in their neighborhood. I visit the Paramount
community very frequently, because I do have family that lives there, so I do understand
their concerns. I have been in the area where this school -- very close to the school and
understand the amount of traffic in that area and the safety concerns that could come with
the increased traffic, but I'm here just -- I don't have any PowerPoint presentations, I just
come as a voice -- as a member of the Meridian community. I moved here when Meridian
was 3,400 people, so I'm a little bit old and I have moved in and out of the community, but
I have to say that Meridian is a great community. I don't think that we can deny that our
growth is exploding. I think that we also need to acknowledge that with that growth we
need to have business support. Where that happens I believe that people are trying to
take advantage of the opportunities that we have, you know, based on the land available.
I don't think anybody is denying that people not move here, because we live in the great
state of Idaho, we offer quality of life to people. So, someone made a comment about we
don't want to turn this into California or something very similar to that. I think that -- I don't
think anybody that is moving here from California wants to turn it into California. They
are leaving California because they desire the quality of life that Idaho provides outside
of California. So, they are coming here with that desire, not to bring that -- that type of
lifestyle into Idaho. So, I just kind of wanted to make that clarification or make that
statement as well and to the people that are coming here for a better quality of life , so --
and I also wanted to speak specifically about Winco and I really -- I have been to several
of these hearings. I appreciate the time and the concerns that they have put into and the
money they have put in to try to address the modifications for noise and traffic. I know
it's not ideal, but we also need to realize that there is already a traffic concern in this area
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and the residents of Paramount have already addressed that as well. So , I -- I want to
commend them for trying to do the best they can to, you know, bring their brand to our
community as well. As we look at business expansion and growth in our area what better
way to bring growth to our area than to bring the Winco brand, which originated in our
area, to support our community. Winco now has businesses in eight other states besides
Idaho. I actually recently visited to Arizona -- and I know you pinged, but I think that we
need to -- we need to support our local economy and we need to support local companies
that represent the state of Idaho as well.
De Weerd: Thank you. We appreciate your testimony.
Coles: David McKinney.
De Weerd: Good evening.
McKinney: Thank you. Good evening. David McKinney. 1225 West Bacall Street in the
Paramount Subdivision. This has been a long process getting here and there is some
fatigue among everyone involved I think, but the current plan is much better than what
was originally proposed and some incremental improvements have been made, but there
are still a couple of things that -- that are lacking. I mean it's been mentioned -- it's more
of a strip mall and it would be nice if we could have something better. I fear that we are
not going to be able to get a whole lot beyond that, but let me -- let me mention a couple
of points that haven't been brought up. With respect to the hours of operation, the
development code Section 11-2B-3, Subsection A-4, states -- and I know you're familiar
with this. Business hours of operation within the C-C districts shall be limited from 6:00
o'clock a.m. to 11:00 o'clock p.m. when the property abuts a residential use. Now, if we
look at the developer's plan -- and I don't know if that's up on the screen. If you can put
the -- just the overall plan on the screen. The live-work buildings at the south western
region directly behind the Winco, that's a residential use and it immediately abuts the
Winco property. Therefore, this section of the code applies. Therefore, extended hours
of operation in the C-C district can only be requested through a conditional use permit.
Now, the -- I think there is a solution, however. A conditional use permit could be granted
if the condition were that Winco put a roof over the loading dock. That would block out
the remaining sound that I think is the biggest concern . I took this plan and using an
engineer's scale concluded that the additional roof area needed would be about 20,000
square feet, at a price of about 34 dollars -- 30 to 40 dollars a square foot. That would
work out to about six to seven hundred thousand dollars. Now, the developer -- and they
could probably pin that down a little better than I could, but that's kind of my back of the
napkin -- back of the envelope kind of a calculation. That would be my request there.
And just a couple of words on some of the other issues. With respect to traffic calming, I
would like to request, number one, that on the collector street, the collector road, that
intersections be built with roundabouts as a traffic calming measure and that the speed
tables that are proposed be put in in phase one, because until Chinden is widened from
Linder Road all the way to Eagle, it's going to continue to be, essentially, a parking lot
during the morning and p.m. peak hours. Because of that there is going to be a large
incentive for drivers to use this collector road as a major cut through to avoid traffic on
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Chinden. So, the traffic calming that would be a good feature to have throughout the
whole project, it would be very helpful to have that in phase one. Finally, the concern
about the access on Chinden, let me just say this. I'm on the Meridian Transportation
Commission and nearly at every meeting the -- Sergeant Arnold from the Meridian Police
Department comes and reports on traffic accidents at Linder and Chinden and they are
nearly always because of left turn movements that are -- the permitted left turn, that is
when the arrow is flashing yellow -- of traffic going eastbound and turning north onto
Linder. T-bone type accidents. Those are the most serious accidents and they happen
all the time. The left turns across Chinden, when there are all the lanes that are there in
its ultimate build out, is going to have the same kind of a problem. I'm not as concerned
about the right-in, right-out movements, as long as we have acceleration and deceleration
lanes for those movements, but the left turns are the problem.
De Weerd: Mr. McKinney, I'm sorry, but your time is up.
McKinney: Thank you.
Bernt: Mr. McKinney? Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Bernt: I -- I'm looking at Chinden and I don't see any left turns out of those two accesses
onto Chinden.
McKinney: I'm talking about the left turns from Chinden into developments. For example,
into the Fred Meyer development north of Chinden there is a left turn that goes in west of
Bergman and you can see it -- it's kind of in the upper left of this plan that we are looking
at. You can see where Bergman is, where it sort of looks like a four way --
Bernt: Yeah.
McKinney: -- go to the west of that and look north. That entrance into that Fred Meyer
parking lot has a left turn in that's allowed for eastbound traffic on Chinden. Right now
those drivers only have one lane of traffic that's oncoming. That's why we don't have
accidents there now. But we have lots of those kinds of accidents at the intersection of
Linder, because there is multiple lanes of oncoming traffic and it's harder to see and
harder to gauge that.
Bernt: So, to confirm, you're concerned about the left turn going eastbound into the Fred
Meyer development.
McKinney: Well, what I'm saying is that's an example of a left turn that's bad and having
a westbound left turn off of Chinden southbound into this development would be a bad
situation.
Bernt: Got you. Yeah. Yeah.
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McKinney: Thank you.
Bernt: No. No. One more.
De Weerd: Mr. McKinney, one more question.
Bernt: What was the question I was going to ask you? Oh. Where would -- where would
-- you spoke about roundabouts. Can you -- can you show me on the map where you
would propose a roundabout?
McKinney: Sure. Essentially -- well, for example, where Bergman connects into the
collector road coming up from the south --
Cavener: Sorry to interrupt. Dave, for the benefit of everyone in the audience and for
Council, if you can use that pen and maybe --
McKinney: Does that work? That's one location right there. Another would be up here
where -- again where the residential street meets the collector road and another would
be right down here, so that incoming traffic to the development can be directed off to the
north or the south and that will, again, you know -- and perhaps a fourth location right
here. Roundabouts work very well. I have a background in traffic engineering.
Roundabouts slow down traffic without stopping it and limit stop signs.
Bernt: I agree with that. I -- I -- Madam Mayor, follow up? I just don't know how that
would alleviate the traffic and the concern of your fellow neighbors going through your
subdivision to the proposed development. I guess that would affect like, you know, the
-- the traffic -- whether traffic calming measures within the proposed development, but I
don't know how that would affect --
McKinney: Well, you know -- and, again, I'm -- I'm not trying to -- I'm not discounting the
concerns about cut through traffic through Paramount, I'm simply choosing not to address
it here. I think it would be additionally -- an additional speed table on Bergman would be
warranted down here at the south end, in addition to the other traffic calming measures
there. That is a concern.
Bernt: Would be your -- Madam Mayor, follow up? Since you are the traffic, you know,
commission in -- in our city what -- what would you recommend as far as cut through --
your concern. I would like to know what your -- what your concerns are, since you have
experience with it and you sit on a commission that talks about it.
McKinney: Well, number one --
Bernt: I know you didn't discuss it, but I'm asking you to.
McKinney: Sure. The -- the indirect nature of the Bergman -- that's a great improvement,
because that will -- that will discourage cut through traffic. Likewise, again, a speed table
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-- at least one on Bergman also address that same issue. Not having Arliss connected is
a good factor in my opinion.
Bernt: One more time. You say not having what?
McKinney: Not having Arliss connect directly into the connector road is -- is a good
development. I think it is good to have vehicular access from the neighborhood and it's
good that it's not direct access from the neighborhood. So, I think -- I don't know. I mean
I'm inclined -- I'm not as worried about this as some of the other residents are, but that's
just -- that's my opinion. The Bergman connection.
Bernt: So, what are your thoughts about seeing the current proposal, where the -- where
-- on Bergman, how it out goes from existing Bergman to a future use Bergman and it
takes a right and right there there is a pool, what are your thoughts about eliminating that
small little road that goes to the collector and only having access to the collector over by
where Fox Run is?
McKinney: Personally I would be fine with that. I know there are other residents who
would want to have the vehicular access. I can -- I can see it either way. You know, I
have my personal feeling on that as a -- as a sort of traffic -- the reason stub streets exist
in subdivisions is to provide connectivity to adjacent development and I think too many
connections is a problem and too few is a problem. So, having Bergman connect -- and
I -- I acknowledge some of the residents don't feel the same way as I do on this one, but
having Bergman connect is helpful. I like the fact that it's close enough I can walk to it.
I'm happy to have a development nearby. Again, we just need to take care of the mitigate
issues that exist. There is traffic issues, the noise issues and so on. But having
development nearby that I can walk to is good and I know many other residents feel the
same way.
Bernt: Thank you, David.
McKinney: Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Tyler Wilson is next.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Wilson: My name is Tyler Wilson. 5809 North Arliss Avenue and that's in Paramount.
Madam Mayor, City Council, I just want to express my gratitude to each of you. I know
you have heard a lot of testimony over the last year plus and I have repeatedly been
impressed. I have told my wife several times I have been impressed with how much you
have listened to the community, how much you have taken to account our feelings and
our arguments and -- on both sides and I understand the difficult challenges that you're
faced with and the serious nature of this development . It -- the opportunity it provides
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Meridian financially in ways of access for -- for certain areas, especially areas to the north
of us, I think there is some benefit there. The problem I'm having in all of this, though, is
that from the beginning our main issues with this development have been the size of the
buildings. The Comprehensive Plan outlined what size building should be here. The
development overstep that, not only with one building, but two buildings and potentially in
that future office retail third building. So, they are not only doing it once, but twice and,
potentially, a third time. We have asked them to break it up multiple times, multiple
occasions. They haven't done that. What they have given us is a few considerations,
like turning Winco to alleviate some of the noise. What they have done is allowed or
worked on providing access to Fox Run, while still putting an access on Chinden in two
places and that left turn is going to be a nightmare. It's already a nightmare trying to get
into Fred Meyer using a left turn. So, expand the road and it's going to be worse. My
final concern I think overall, other than the fact that the buildings of the -- are the worst
case scenario for this development, is that as you have stated, you all have children, they
are a priority, but my -- I have a child that goes to Paramount Elementary, I have a child
that goes to Heritage Middle School, and I have a child that goes to Rocky Mountain High
School. They can't bus. It is not allowed, because they are all within a mile. So, they
have to walk. This scares me. The amount of traffic that's going to be flowing through
our neighborhood is frightening. Already just driving my kids to school in the morning,
just to walk home afterwards because I'm at work, already just the high school students
alone it's scary and that's just the high school students coming from Meridian Road to the
high school. Add another 1,500 cars during the day, it's terrifying to a parent. Creating a
possibility of access to this level it's scary for me and my family and -- and most of the
parents and families in the sub -- in the subdivision. So, please, consider that and thank
you for your time and for all that you do for the city. I appreciate it.
De Weerd: Thank you, Tyler.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Madam Mayor. Tyler, thanks for your testimony. Given the -- the -- one of your
passionate concerns is the traffic within the neighborhood , if the development was to be
approved as the plat sits would you like to see the -- the accesses off of Chinden? Would
you feel that those would help alleviate some of the traffic from wanting to go south to
have easy access to go north?
McKinney: Potentially. I don't know. I don't know traffic that well. All I see is what I see
in my neighborhood and the potential that I see coming from this development is the worst
case scenario. This development was never supposed to be this big. It was never
supposed to contain what this is being -- what is being shoehorned in here like Mr.
Eastman said. This is taking something that should have been a community based small
forum development for the nearby communities to enjoy, like a village would be. Instead
it's Fred Meyer. It's a parking lot with big box stores and access to a much wider
community than was intended. I can see the benefit to that from some of our outlying
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communities, but is their benefit necessary in this location? I don't believe that it is. There
is so much open land available in our area still, there is absolutely no reason why this has
to be forced into this spot. It was never meant to be here and yet we keep talking about
the same things over and over again and they have given some minor concessions and I
said in my testimony previously that I -- that I wrote in, you know, if this were a student at
-- like my kid at Rocky Mountain, this would maybe be a C. You know, they have -- they
have maybe given a little bit here, given a little bit there and like the individual in the
construction said, they are meeting all the little things. They are meeting all the -- the
rules and the laws, but is that good enough. If they just check all the boxes do we say,
okay, great, let's -- let's do this thing or do we ask for the best that Meridian can offer and
that's what I have been trying to say every single time I have born my testimony up here
is that we can do better and we continue to fail to do better in this development and I think
we can do so much better and part of it is why do we have to do this. It wasn't meant for
this, yet we keep trying to do it.
Coles: Jim Alexander.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Alexander: Hi. Good evening. My name is Jim Alexander. I live at 1060 West State
Street in Meridian.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Alexander: You're welcome. And, boy, there is lots going on here. It seems like these
meetings are getting better and better, because it's like my third one here.
De Weerd: Can you pull the mic up a little bit.
Alexander: Yeah.
De Weerd: There you go.
Alexander: All right. Thank you. I thought Mr. McKinney's testimony was pretty good
saying that the traffic guy he thinks it's getting better. So, that's good news. Could
somebody pull up the parking area on Google Maps or whatever you had before for the
Village in Meridian and kind of compare the parking with this project. That's been a
concern. And while we are doing that I would like to say the traffic congestion that people
have been bringing up I think it's relevant and when these developers widen Chinden,
wouldn't that alleviate some of these left-hand turn problems that people are talking
about? And, then, I remember at the P&Z meeting they talked about the noise reduction
on that wall. I think they said the normal decibel ratings in that area is about 40 and with
this wall it comes down about 28 and that -- I think that's pretty good. Where I live off
State Street is probably about a half a mile to three quarters from -- you know where
Bobby's Automotive is on Meridian? There is that big green plane saw and that thing's
loud and it runs all night and when I first heard that, you know, going out at night I thought,
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holy smokes, that's going to be loud. But when I get in my house I have never in four
years have been woken up by that noise. I'm thinking these backup bells probably not
going to be that big of a deal. People got dual pane windows, you know, and you don't
hear it that much. It could be different, but when I come out in the mornings sometimes
you walk down the sidewalk. It's not real loud in my house, but right when you get into
the next street it's louder. So, buildings, you know, block noise and things. So, I don't
think it's going to be as bad as some people think. Let me see. Can you zoom in on that
parking lot here at The Village? I'm just kind of wanting to compare what -- you know,
everybody loves The Village and there is a lot of parking lot. I'm not an expert on it, but
it seems to be a lot of parking. You know, all this parking. That seems like it's more
parking than this development has. So, anyway, I think this project would bring a lot of
the needed services to north Meridian. I think the traffic -- it would get relieved eventually,
like -- you know, it seems like the developer is open to some of these suggestions. They
have already done things or alleviate traffic. So, I'm in support of this and hope you guys
can agree to it and, then, make it a little better with everybody's comments.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Alexander: Thank you.
Coles: Nick Eller.
Eller: Hi. My name is Nick Eller. I live at 851 West Honker Drive in Meridian and I have
got a presentation that I should have on here. If not, I can wing it. So , to start, for those
that are against this development or if you're on the fence about it , I want you to ask
yourself about where do you shop for groceries , where do you go see the doctor, where
do you go shopping for clothes, where do you get your oil changed, where do you go to
the gym, where do you go out to eat, where do you go for entertainment. So, that's if
you're in the north corridor and if any of those locations that you go to send you to Eagle
Road or any other major collector street, you're already part of the problem -- the traffic
problem. All right. I admitted it, I am, too. I'm not -- I'm not singling anybody else out,
but it's not your fault. The northern Meridian corridor hasn't been able to keep up with all
the residential growth, but all of us here tonight have a chance to change that and help
bring smart growth to Meridian. Commercial developments like Linder Village have been
halted by citizens out of fear of traffic. Hundreds of thousands of homes have been built
in the Treasure Valley in the past few years, but commercial developments like this have
not been able to keep up. The answer is to fix the traffic problems in our valley and
community are not always make the roads wider, prevent -- prevent commercial
development. The answer to fixing our traffic problems are developing more live -work-
play areas in order to limit travel distances and overall duration. Bring -- bring jobs and
traffic -- or bring jobs and shopping centers closer to home. Linder Village does that.
Make development -- or developers accountable for widening roads to relieve congestion.
Linder Village does that. City and commercial developments to provide for a safer, easier
and more convenient means of transportation. Linder Village does. Meridian must grow
in the northern corridor out of necessity in order to aid and provide relief for the central
corridor at Fairview and Eagle Road. Convenience is quickly becoming a thing of the
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past, but we can change that. Even more residential developments are planned to the
west of Linder. W here will they shop if Linder Village is denied? On my presentation I
did a -- kind of a quick study to look at radiuses around groceries. In this northern corridor
there is Fred Meyers and Walmart that was recently built . In other areas -- and I have
been up here in the past talking about the -- I call it the trifecta. You have got the northern
corridor, you have got the south eastern corridor over by The Village and, then, you have
got Ten Mile, which is currently under development. Each of those other pieces of
Meridian -- they have got Albertsons, Winco, Walmart and, actually, the southwest portion
has two Albertsons, a Winco and a Walmart. The other on the eastern side has three
Albertsons, a Walmart and a Fred Meyer. The northern corridor is lacking in that area.
Movie theaters. Ten Mile -- there is -- there hasn't been anything announced there, but in
the southeast corridor you have got Village Cinema and the Majestic. In the north you
have got to Eagle and fine dining. As we all know most of those fine dining areas that we
go to eat are all at the Eagle and Fairview area. Shopping same thing. Oil changes. This
should be in the public record. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. If you can summarize. Oh. Well, you didn't have to absolutely
stop instantly. Just summarize.
Eller: Thank you. If I can have a moment here, since I had to wing it on my presentation,
I just want to go back to the P&Z meeting about some comments by Commissioner
Holland --
De Weerd: As long as you can summarize.
Eller: Yes. Thank you. That it really does make it more of a mixed use product and that's
something we are missing here in Meridian. We don't have a lot of those live-work units
and I really think it's valuable -- valuable to have that. That makes where people can live
where they work and go to get groceries and you do really have a nice, nice plaza there.
So, that's -- that's from P&Z and -- and it's in there. So, thank you.
De Weerd: Appreciate it.
Coles: Keith Jones next.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Jones: Good evening. Keith Jones. 280 East Corporate Drive, Meridian.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Jones: Thank you. As a -- as a father -- and I have heard a lot of concerns about traffic
and it was a little bit confusing and I appreciated the Council that asked for a little more
detail on what these back road traffic might look like . You know, people come through
Paramount and I understand people will certainly cut through this back road, but if you
have been through Paramount, as I have, it's a good way to get lost and you end up going
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in circles and it's no shortcut at all and I just -- I was certainly concerned when I heard
those types of concerns and even following the logic through the schools and the traffic
from the school -- of the high school, the middle school are on Linder, that's a grade
school that's in the center. I do believe that traffic is an issue in our valley, but it's not
brought about by this project. You know, we don't have enough north-south
thoroughfares, you know, off the freeway over the river. We bottle up at Eagle. That's
not this project's fault. This project is bringing services to where we live. Our concern as
an area is certainly to be urban sprawl, but we do need places where we live, work, play
and early on this project did not check too many boxes at all, but over a period of time
has changed significantly to the point where all the boxes can be checked and there is a
process still to go through, but all other corners on this intersection have b een developed.
This is 60 acres set aside for this. Nobody's talking about the residential piece that will
be between everybody's homes that now back up to this development. And one last
point that I hear and it sounds reasonable and I have heard it for years and that's the
traffic that comes from Winco and the building's been orientated in such a way to where
it's on Linder Road now. It doesn't back up to the homes. Somebody would have
accepted a band shell to block the sound. I submit that there is a building blocking the
sound. In behind that there is more buildings and plantings, et cetera. I vote yes for the
project. We are in a unique position. Our signs are on that corner, although my role is
undefined as well on a go forward basis. Four years ago we put an irrigation system on
this property preparatory for this development and we put our signs and we left our signs
up -- thank you very much -- and it's been four years and we get calls all the time because
of it and I know for a fact there is many people -- more that support this that are not in this
room than the voices here opposed to it.
De Weerd: Thank you. Can you --
Jones: But I do believe --
De Weerd: Can you summarize, please.
Jones: Thank you very much.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Madam Mayor, that was all of those that indicated they wanted to provide
testimony on the signups.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, at this time, before I ask if there is any additional testimony,
we are going to call a ten minute break and reconvene at 9:30.
(Recess: 9:20 p.m. to 9:34 p.m.)
De Weerd: Okay. We will go ahead and reconvene this meeting. Thank you for the
interruption and the break. Okay. We just ended up the public testimony of those that
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signed up. Is there anyone who was not signed up that would like to provide testimony?
Yes. Good evening, Denise.
LaFever: Good evening, Mayor Tammy.
De Weerd: Thank you for joining us.
LaFever: My name is Denise LaFever. I'm at 6706 North Salvia Way, Meridian, and for
a year and a half I have watched the Linder Village project through all of P&Z, city -- and
City Council meetings, through the reconsiderations and the multiple continuations . I
have to commend the residents who have stuck through the entire process. They deserve
to be heard. I wanted to see how the ACHD public hearing process worked, so I attended
the Linder Village public hearing. From my observation the infrastructure process is
broken and the state has failed to properly fund infrastructure. P&Z and City Council have
both been on record saying they aren't responsible for roads. ACHD has said they are
not responsible for land use. ACHD has said they are not responsible for ITD. Who is
responsible for the whole integrated solution? W here does the buck stop? Who delivers
the executive oversight that ensures responsible roads and land use and demonstrates
overall concern for taxpayers and residents now and in the future? That critical
component executive oversight for an integrated solution for roads, to land use, to
livability, to Linder Village neighborhood, appears to be missing in this application. The
main concern seems to be focused on STAR agreements and expanding Chinden. The
Paramount residents hasn't -- haven't said no to this development, they just want to see
some changes that will respect their neighborhood and its quality of life . Is this City
Council willing to sacrifice safety and quality of life for Paramount children and families to
getting returned STAR's money, which is a loan? Bundle of rights. LUPA. Zoning laws.
Comprehensive Plan. None of these say that landowners will -- with the most money
have the right -- most rights. None of them say developing property is -- is to be developed
at the highest rate of return and profit to the developers. LUPA and UDC both speak to
complying with the Comprehensive Plan. Protect and promote health, safety and the
general welfare. The Comprehensive Plan needs to matter and not just be a marketing
splash for the city. The words quality of life and safety need to mean something to the
residents of Meridian. The three biggest issues that I have heard in this is safety, delivery
hours and noise. I would submit to the city they can ensure a win-win solution for the
developers and the impacted residents by requiring some of the following ideas: Restrict
delivery hours. If that's not acceptable, restrict alcohol and tobacco sales during the
evening hours or the nighttime hours. Build a fence like Cory Borton's fence on Ten Mile
and Chinden and around the back and towards the residents area. Restrict truck and
traffic through the neighborhood. Safety. Avoid commercial cut through traffic. Place a
light at Bergman and Chinden. This would benefit both Fred Meyers and Winco. Both
developments. Remove the light at Fox Run and Chinden. Have right-in and right-out.
Place a light at Records in Meridian. Put a walk path at Bergman to Paramount or restrict
it just to the residential part of the unit. Don't -- don't develop access to the east across
Brighton's property. Once again the residents haven't said no to the development , they
just want to see some changes. Commercial retail developments rely on rooftops and
traffic counts to be successful. The residents --
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De Weerd: Denise, can you, please, summarize.
LaFever: Right now. Through the process I haven't seen an effort of the developers to
work with the residents and so at this point I would greatly appreciate if City Council could
help bridge the gap and look to develop a win-win best of your ability for this project to let
the residents know they matter.
De Weerd: Thank you. Yes, sir. Good evening.
Quist: Mayor and the Council, I am Tyrone Quist. I live at 6725 North Linder Road in
Meridian here and I live right across the street from the Fred Meyers, so I can get the
exact noise that it has from living across the street from the Fred Meyers . There is no
noise. There is no noise that I can hear being across the street from the Fred Meyers .
The only problem that I have had is the lights from the cars. That's the only problem . But
that's not being addressed here, because there is no light shining into people's houses.
The other thing is is I would love to see this, because it gives me a chance to when I'm at
2:00 or 3:00 in the morning where my wife goes, hey, we need diapers really bad. I can't
just go to a convenience store at a gas station to get some, I could just go there real quick
and grab something. But not very many people are going to be there at night. I mean
the area mostly has kids, so most of the time they are going to be at home. So, more or
less the people will be doing it during the day shopping, not the evening shopping, which
I am for the 24 hours, because the slight chance I need something that I need I can't get
at a convenience store it would be great and I think the traffic is being dealt with. The
wall that is being built is way more than what I even got when I had the Fred Meyers put
across the street. So, I do agree with this and approve of this. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Tyrone, can I ask you a question? I was curious on the Fred
Meyer across the street. Do they limit their delivery hours?
Quist: Unfortunately they do not. They -- they tied to in the meeting before, but it's
delivered all night long. There is traffic going in there all night long. There is a Taco Bell
right across the street. People go there all night that they can -- I think it's like 2:00 in the
morning is when they shut down. So, I mean -- and the gas station, you can go to the
gas station at Fred Meyers all night long and fill up. I mean the lights are all on. I mean
it's a great, great experience in my opinion, even though the one thing that I would like
addressed would be able to build a fence right up on the road, which I understand I can't,
which is fine. But other than that I think everything is great.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Any other testimony? Okay. If there is no further public
testimony would the applicant like to address some of the comments made and -- and
wrap up your remarks.
Howell: Madam Mayor, City Council, thank you.
De Weerd: If you will state your name and address again for the record.
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Howell: Still Ken Howell. 877 West Main, Suite 1000, Boise, Idaho. 83704. Thank you.
This project has, obviously, generated a lot of passion among the immediate neighbors
and we have seen that from the very beginning of the public testimony which has come
before you --
De Weerd: Can you pull that microphone --
Howell: We have seen that from the very beginning of the public testimony that has come
before you and what I would like to reiterate is whether those that have spoken tonight
acknowledge it or not -- and most did acknowledge -- this project has been affected and
been fairly dramatically affected by the testimony and the concerns that they have brought
forward. Now, does that say that every aspect of the project conforms with every one of
their individual concerns, whether that means building additional roofs or moving buildings
to far corners or reconfiguring the architectural design elements of the buildings ?
Absolutely not. And I expect that you have never seen any project which has come before
you that has met that level of conformity with each individual nearby citizen 's concern
about how the project works and generally that's not how projects get designed . We do
the best job that we can with the entitlements that flow from the ownership of the land and
the actions of the City Council in putting in place the ordinances that governs the
development of those lands and we have tried to comply with the spirit and with the letter
of those obligations moving forward and I believe that we have fully complied -- sad to
say is everyone is going to be happy with them? Absolutely not. But we have complied
with them and you don't really need to look any further than your very own staff approval
of this project. Staff is recommending approval of this project based on the requirement s
that are imposed for resident -- the development of this type of project and the conditions
and aspects of the project that we have brought to bear both in response originally and in
response to the concerns and comments of the City Council, P&Z and, of course, of the
residents and I would also point out that there are quite a number of residents and quite
a number of area representatives and its citizens who do approve of this project . We
showed you that support slide early on and I know that Sally Reyn olds testified that -- I
think she probably overstated it -- that the Paramount residents don't want this project
and they don't want the interconnectivity and I can assure you that is absolutely incorrect
and it's demonstrably incorrect from the evidence that is in the record before you. There
are items of correspondence from citizens that live in the Paramount Subdivision that say
they live in that subdivision, they bought their house in that subdivision knowing that this
parcel would be developed as a commercial project. They want that commercial project
nearby to their neighborhoods and that they want the inner connection between
Paramount and this project, so they don't have to go out onto public streets and a specific
example of only one of many of those letters is a December 14 letter by Jeffrey Wardle,
which is in the record before you and he very specifically details each and every one of
those elements, that this is a project that he knew would be in place , he purchased his
house wanting this project to be in place, so to say that, well, everybody in Paramount is
against this, we know is demonstrably simply not true. The traffic is -- traffic and access
is a -- is kind of a recurring theme and I may need to get to a point where we call John
Ringert here to supplement some of the information that you have received on the traffic
circulation studies, but I would note first that we have fully complied with what the
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governing agencies, ACHD and ITD, who have control over the state highways and the
county highways, have required us to do for those streets. They have required traffic
calming devices. They have not specifically required that there be a traffic circulation
pattern of a particular type. The question of roundabouts came up before the ACHD and
they have not included those as a requirement , but what those agencies do is they are
charged with the responsibility to implement the rules and regulations that govern the
traffic on those streets and these are not private streets owned by the individual residents
of Paramount, these are public streets dedicated to public use and one of the things that
you will note is there has been a wide variety of opinions on how much extra traffic is
going to actually come through the Paramount Subdivision, whether it be called cut
through traffic or other traffic and I'm not going to stand here and no one could realistically
stand here and tell you there would never be any cuts through traffic. We all know that's
just not true. But what I have said from the ver y beginning is we have gone to great
lengths to try to minimize that cut through traffic by adding a half mile extra to someone
who tries to circulate through this. That's contained in the ACHD findings. What ACHD
also noted is that these streets, Arliss and Bergman, have a natural capacity of 2,000 trips
per day. That's far above what they have now and what they note is that this project is
expected only to increase that traffic by 120 on Arliss and I forget the exact number --
about 220 on Bergman. So, we are nowhere near the natural capacity of these streets.
Is it an increase? Absolutely. But it's an increase fully within the capacity of those streets.
The issue of speeding, the issue of reckless driving, the issue of commercial vehicles
inappropriately using streets for whatever purpose, those exist all across our jurisdiction,
unfortunately, and what are we going to do about that. Well, we are going to do the same
thing that we have always done about it, we are going to have enforcement mechanisms.
What we aren't going to do is block streets off and say you can't come here. These are
public streets and they require public access. And I want to talk a little bit about the issue
of the variance, because there seems to have been perhaps some confusion certainly on
the public testimony and that is what staff has told you about the variance . Your staff is
not telling you that they recommend denial of the variance request because we can't
comply with those conditions. What staff has told you is it 's not their job to make those
findings, that's your job to make those findings and conclusions and should you make
those findings and conclusions the variance can be granted. Staff is not telling you that
the applicant somehow failed to meet those or can not meet those requirements and this
is actually shown by -- if we go back to staff 's January 11, 2018, report, which, again, is
in the record of some of the prior application materials, they included as an exhibit to that
report this discussion of the variance and the determination of the factors that are to be
considered and they provide some discussion and findings of fact that say these elements
can be met. There is one element where they said -- and I'm quoting page 31 of that
document where they say that staff finds proposed access via Chinden Boulevard would
grant a right or special -- special privilege as the UDC specifically prohibits access, unless
otherwise approved through a variance, which I think is , frankly, just circular. It says you
have got to have a variance in order to get approval and because you don't have a
variance, because the variance hasn't been approved, it's a special right or privilege.
What we did early on in this application -- and none of these facts or conditions have
changed -- in our correspondence to you dated November 14 th, 2017, starting at page
ten, we lay out a great number of examples of these kind of specific accesses to state
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highways where variances have been granted already. These a re not special conditions,
these are accesses which have been granted many many times over and this applies to
Knight Sky, this applies to The Village. We know it from the example of Costco, it applies
to Costco. There is a great number of examples where this variance has been granted.
So, the variance -- so, it's not a unique proposition here and it's not a special privilege
which is being granted. We aren't asking for anything different than what the City
Council's done many many times on other commercial development. The other issue is
that the variance relieves an undue burden because of the characteristics of the site and
in the January 11th, page 31, proposed recommendations from your staff what they note
is, yes, this is a unique site with a huge amount of frontage on a state highway and it
doesn't make any sense that you have access to a site of this size with this type of
development only through one location. That probably creates more problems than it
would ever possibly solve. So, I think if you look at the -- your own staff materials and the
material that's before you you have the basis for a full finding of all those varian ce items,
in addition to the -- to the option as we offered that if you apply your own City Council --
your own city code provisions for relief from that variance , that under 11-4-H3 I think it is,
would fully comply in any event.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions?
Bernt: Mr. Howell.
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: Madam Mayor, thank you. So, you have heard -- you have heard the concerns
that these neighbors have, whether it's noise, traffic -- I mean what are some -- what are
some things that you can compromise with?
Howell: Madam Mayor, City Councilman Bernt, I -- I think we have compromised already
in the application and the revisions that we have submitted to you. We have compromised
on the noise aspect by a substantial relocation of the facility, by the construction of a full
height masonry sound wall, by the relocation of access and I would point out that the
concern about noise and the evidence about noise are two different things. It's easy to
come in and say, well, what about noise and it's going to bounce all over the place. The
sound study that we have provided you indicates that's just not the case here with this
configuration. So, sure, we can be afraid, we can let our fears run wild based on
speculation, but the evidence that's before the Council shows that the noise is going to
be substantially reduced, not increased. The traffic concern, I think we have shown you
repeatedly, based on the traffic study, based on the ACHD findings, that although there
will be naturally some increase in traffic, it's far below the natural capacity of the roads,
but, more importantly, looking at this overall project, recall that the traffic here will also be
alleviated not only by having a facility that provides for local shopping, the decrease in
trip requirements, but also by a substantial multi tens of millions of dollar enhancement of
Chinden Boulevard, Linder by the STAR agreement, by the developer fronting all of those
costs and expenses to make those improvements. So, we alleviate those traffic concerns
by those improvements as well. The -- the other concerns, of course, that -- that we heard
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are safety in -- in the community and certainly safety is a concern of every resident of this
city, of this county, and, indeed, of this state. The regulatory agencies with control over
those decisions, the ACHD and ITD, have taken a pass at that. Can we say that there
will never be anyone subject to injury in a traffic accident ? Of course not. Not until we
get a little better control over how people drive and, you know, that's why we have traffic
enforcement. So, those are natural consequences of living in the society that we live in
now. Will this unduly adversely impact? There has been no showing in the testimony in
the record before you that just because the nature of someone who is driving in a vehicle
going to shop at Winco is somehow materially more at risk of causing harm or damage
than someone who is driving to go to a piano lesson or driving to go to any other
innocuous use. This is not inherent in the traffic that will be coming to this site and, in
fact, I would submit that based on what we have shown you so far it would tend overall to
reduce those kind of impacts. If there is other specific examples of some of the testimony
and concern about how we would alleviate those , I would try to address them, but in a
precise answer to your question what are we willing to do to compromise, I think we have
compromised from what we have been here from the very beginning and those are not
easy, nor cheap, nor inexpensive, nor immaterial compromises and if there is one thing
in -- that -- that I have certainly seen and I'm sure you have seen in all the commercial
developments that have come before you and that I have been involved with over the
years, there is not a single unitary platonic ideal of what a perfect commercial
development is that we can all agree. Everybody's got their own opinion.
Bernt: Right.
Howell: And we simply are trying to do the best job we can to comply with the statutes
and ordinances that are in place.
Bernt: Madam Mayor, follow up. What about the hours of operation. What are your
thoughts on the hours of operation?
Howell: Hours of operation is -- is tied in, I think -- excuse me, Madam Mayor,
Commissioner Bernt -- Councilman Bernt, hours of operation is inherently tied into the
project and the layout and specific additional features of the Winco facility here and that's
really what we are talking about when we talk about hours of operation is Winco. This is
a larger facility. It's been oriented specifically on this site to minimize impact from delivery
and its delivery hours, it's not hours of operation for people going in and shopping. It's
been specifically designed to minimize those impacts. That gets to the noise issue which
we have addressed I think overall. The -- the -- the hours of operation -- and during the
break I did confer with Greg Goins, who is the VP of real estate and development for
Winco and we talked specifically about that store in Texas that was referenced and -- that
they imposed hours of operation and that they can comply with hours of operation there.
That specific example, yes, they do have hours of operation. The reason they have hours
-- limited hours of delivery for their operation there is that they were a secondary use in
that site. That facility already existed, the development already existed and those
restrictions and hours of operation were already in place for that development, they were
not impose specifically because of Winco or Winco's operation, they were already in place
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when Winco became a tenant in that facility. So, there is -- the C-C zone here specifically
allows 24/7 operation. We have this issue of whether -- whether it abuts or doesn't abut
and we have addressed that before and the advice that I know you have received in -- in
public testimony from your city counsel -- from your city attorney is that with the -- with
the collector road this simply does not abut residential uses and there is no restriction on
24/7 operations. I think it's kind of a unique argument -- and I forget exactly who made it
-- it may have been Mr. McKinney who made that argument, that because we have live-
work on site and that's on the project side of the -- of the collector road that we have to
have a CUP for our own live-work site and I think that's inherently at odds with what your
zoning provision for the C-C zone would require. If you're going to have live-work on site
how can you have that if you also have to have -- don't have abutting uses without having
a dividing road running between every project. I think those two things are simply
incompatible and it doesn't make any sense to read the ordinance that way.
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I would like some clarification on some numbers that were thrown out regarding
the number of trips and I heard 30,000 in the first phase or -- or 20,000 the first phase
and 30 more thousand the second phase and that just seems like a really high number.
Is that a true number?
Howell: Madam Mayor, Councilman Milam, you know, I -- I think if you really want to dig
into those numbers I think I would be better served by having the person who actually did
the traffic engineering on this job come up and make -- make that -- answer your question
specifically on that. So, with Madam Mayor's permission I would have John Ringert come
up and answer your questions on that, Councilman Milam.
Milam: Thank you.
De Weerd: Yes, please. Thank you, John. If you will, please, state your name and
address for the record.
Ringert: John Ringert. Kittelson and Associates. 101 south Capital Boulevard, Suite
600, Boise, Idaho. 83702.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Ringert: Madam Mayor, Councilman Milam, it's -- they are high. I think the numbers that
were stated weren't exactly interpreted correctly, because how we do the traffic study is
we -- we do phase one and, then, we do phase one plus phase two, because they -- so,
they are -- they are not -- they are not additive. I mean -- so, just to -- just to make sure
everybody has the same numbers, they are still not low. There is about 11,130 trips for
phase one -- net new trips and about -- and, then, there is 23,360 trips for phases one
plus two. So, essentially, you -- you know, phase two is the additional, you know, 12,000
or so trips. So, that's how they add up.
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Milam: Thank you.
Ringert: Anything else?
De Weerd: Okay. Other questions from Council? Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor -- Madam Mayor and Ken, thank you so much for all the
information and things. One of the things I kind of haven't heard addressed yet is we
have had several people talk about walkability and p edestrian flow and it looks like the
perimeter is -- has the sidewalks and lots of flow and -- but I'm not envisioning really
anything on the interior. If I live in Paramount and I want to walk to one of the restaurants,
how would I do that?
Howell: Madam Mayor, Commissioner Roberts, your staff is so good they actually
anticipated what I was going to ask Sonya to bring up. Excuse me. What you have in
front of you is the circulation plan and this depicts -- you can see where the circulation
patterns would be for walkability specifically within the site and so, yes, there -- there is
walkability throughout the site. Obviously, there -- there are parking spaces. This is a
grocery store. People want to go to a grocery store and buy groceries and take them
home in their car and so, yeah, they are parking -- parking spaces, but there is also a
significant amount of walkability throughout the site and, then, you can see the
interconnections going on down into the future residential development and tying o n
through into existing Paramount.
Little Roberts: Thank you.
Howell: And I'm -- I'm sorry, Madam Mayor. Councilman Roberts was -- was there
another component to that question? Did I miss --
Little Roberts: No. I was just kind of going through my notes and, thankfully, most things
have already been asked and that was the only one at this point.
Howell: Okay.
Little Roberts: Thank you.
Howell: Thank you.
De Weerd: Any other questions? Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Madam Mayor. Mr. Howell, earlier we talked a lot about backup alarms and
you had provided testimony that Winco doesn't use them and I was thinking about it. It
seemed odd to me. In a former life I was a truck driver and in that former life I delivered
to Winco and my truck had a backup alarm, which made me think , um, did Mr. Howell
maybe not accurately report when he was hoping to provide this testimony or, two, does
that encompass only Winco deliveries or all vendors that support the Winco stores and
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so I'm hoping you might want to provide some greater clarity to me, so I have a good
understanding as to what you were intending to share.
Howell: Sure thing. Madam Mayor, Councilman Cavener, or my -- my testimony based
on the information I have from Winco is that their delivery trucks do not have backup
alarms. It's my understanding that backup alarms are required by OSHA for construction
equipment, they are not specifically required for over-the-road delivery vehicles.
However, it's also my understanding that where a vehicle comes factory equipped with
backup alarms OSHA also requires -- prohibits their deactivation or dysfunctioning and
so where that intersection lies in terms of some of the delivery trucks that you may be
familiar with, honestly, I don't know, but the Winco delivery trucks, in fact, do not have
backup alarms. The -- the other area where this comes up with backup alarms that 's
seen a lot is, of course, on forklifts and the forklifts that we use and -- for this facility, for
other facilities, operate within the perimeters of the building, within the loading dock, and
remember, again, the truck seals up against the loading dock, so there simply isn't any
exterior of the building operation of a device with a backup alarm. Now -- now, let me
back up to what I think what some of the testimony was earlier that -- that may be causing
some confusion on this and that is -- and if I'm recalling right and it's been a little while ,
you may even have asked this question earlier that you said you didn't see any
information in the sound study about backup alarm . The sound study does address
backup alarms and it specifically notes -- I think it's the city ordinance that says -- for noise
ordinance that required alarm or safety devices aren't considered to be within the noise
ordinance and so that's -- that was addressed in the sound study. So, again, the Winco
trucks don't have them. The forklifts inside will be inside, even if they did have them a nd
we have got even -- even with that, the orientation of the loading dock and the masonry
wall, we simply don't have any evidence here that says , well, because they are their
existing some other place they are going to be a problem here and I don't know how you
could say that they would be a problem here when your existing city noise ordinance says
that you can't restrict them if they are required by law.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Cavener: Maybe a comment and, then, a question. I appreciate what the ordinance says.
I think that we as a Council are trying to hear the feedback from our citizens and that's --
that's what gets to the question. I guess the question, then, would be either for you for
the representative of Winco, what percentage of their delivery trucks are Winco based
and what are the -- the Kellogg's truck or the Coors truck or the Budweiser truck or the
Coca Cola truck or the Pepsi truck, the Keylord truck, the Lay's truck -- I mean I think of
my time in the grocery industry very little of our deliveries ever came from an internal
delivery system. The vast majority of them came from vendors and distribution centers
and if Winco trucks are the vast minority I think that's important information for this Council
to take into account.
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Howell: Sure. Sure thing. And, again, Madam Mayor, I think that given the specificity of
that particular question that has -- that seeks information that I don't directly have, but I
know somebody who does, if I could defer to have Greg Goins, the VP of real estate and
development for Winco, come up and address that question for you, I think he would be
far better suited to do that than I would.
Goins: Madam Mayor, Council Members, Greg Goins. I am the -- I represent Winco real
estate. 650 North Armstrong, Boise, Idaho. Councilman Cavener, I don't know if I can
give you an exact number. I can tell you that, you know, traditionally in our higher volume
stores, which this is going to be a really good store for us, you know, we would expect to
have two full size delivery vehicles come from our distribution center to the facility. To
support what Ken said, we do not have, you know, any kind of backup alarms on our
trucks. As it relates to vendor vehicles, most of the vendor vehicles that actually show up
-- so, let me back up. On our -- on our full size trailers typically what we try to do is bring
those trailers in in that 10:00, 11:00, 12:00 o'clock range. Okay? They back the trailer in,
they -- they -- they unhooked the truck and they leave the trailer, so that the trailer can be
unloaded during the evening hours. So, there is really not any large truck activity in the
really late night hours of our stores. Where the vendor trucks show up, obviously, is in
what you call more of the 6:00 o'clock, 8:00 o'clock range; right? The potato chips, the
bread, the pop, the beer, they show up in that 6:00 o'clock range. So, usually they are
there from that 6:00 to 8:00 range and, then, they are gone. They can have backup
alarms. Again, we can't control that, because OSHA requires it where they have them
and they can't take them off.
Cavener: So -- Madam Mayor. I think -- I think we are kind of getting to the same place.
It sounds like that Winco would deliver -- be able to deliver their -- your supply from your
distribution center during kind of regular people's hours and your vendors are doing their
-- their deliveries, again, between 6:00 and 8:00 a.m. So, help -- help me wrap my head
around why 24 hour delivery is so crucial where it sounds like in your testimony your
business model is already addressing that with a truck being dropped off and your crew
being able to work through it -- through it overnight. I'm -- I'm just struggling to really
understand why that element is so crucial --
Goins: Sure.
Cavener: -- for your model.
Goins: Councilman Cavener, it's a good question. The reality is that with our distribution
model we -- it -- to guarantee that a truck is going to be there at 10:00 o'clock or 11:00
o'clock is -- is not -- is not something that our distribution people like to have to do; right?
Because the reality is based upon the volume of the stores, seasonal times of the year,
whatever it might be, there are reasons why that truck might show up at 12:00, 12:30 or
1:00 o'clock. The reality behind our systems, though, is that we are sensitive to the -- to
the -- the -- you know, the folks that -- that shop our stores and live behind our stores. We
do try to make the effort -- we -- we put systems on our dock system specifically so that
reefer trucks, refrigeration trucks, literally when they back in the truck shuts down . They
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plug those into an electric system, so that people cannot hear those things. So, we are
trying to make that effort. But the reality is with -- with a typical distribution system it's --
it's impossible to guarantee that a load is going to be there or several loads are going to
be there at an exact hour, like 11:00 o'clock or 10:00 o'clock or 12:00 o'clock.
Cavener: Thank you. I really appreciate it.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: My guess I just would like to -- to kind of piggyback clarification on that. What it
sounds like you said is that the -- the only deliveries coming in the middle of the night are
Winco deliveries, which there are no backup beeper systems and all other deliveries that
might come from other vendors that do have the beeper would be between 6:00 a.m. and
11 :00 p.m.
Goins: That is my understanding.
Milam: Is that correct?
Goins: Yes.
Milam: Thank you.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: One additional question, just because it came up I think in the testimony about
-- and Mr. Howell did a good job recognizing he doesn't work for Winco, is not the be all
subject matter expert on -- on your stores, but there was some considerable discussion
about how many of your stores don't operate under the 24 hour model. I think Mr. Howell
said the number is right around eight. Is that -- is that the number that you believe to be
accurate as well?
Goins: Yeah. The number is actually six.
Cavener: Six? Okay.
Goins: Yeah. It is six. We have -- we actually have 124 stores today. Six of those stores
do not operate -- or the delivery hours are restricted on -- on those stores and three of
those stores and hours of operation are also restricted. Three of those stores are affected
because they are smaller stores. So, we have got a unique model. It's a 40,000 square
foot store, urban America type store. That has a different model than the full size store,
which is the -- you know, basically the -- the quality flagship store that we want to build
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here and that we operate in the Treasure Valley and throughout the state of Idaho and
most of the nine other states that we operate in today. We do have unique situations --
and Ken did a pretty good job on the limited time he's had to kind of learn all of this stuff
to discuss the Arlington, Texas, store. So, the situation there was that we took over a
second use facility and there literally was just a driveway behind the back of the store,
which, by the way, the entire delivery facility, the trash compactors, the loading docks,
everything are at the very back of the store -- well, you have got the driveway and the
next thing you have got is you have got a residential area like Paramount. So, we have
those situations. They are limited. The reality here is we have got a large enough site
where we have made the effort -- Winco has made the compromise -- the developers
made the compromise to move the store forward, move the store closer to Linder, and on
top of that this is a compromise on Winco's part, because it cost us more money to do
side load facilities and, number two, from a cost efficiency over the lifetime of the store ,
dragging the freight all the way across the store, rather than starting at the back of the
store, if our delivery facility was at the back, is an additional cost to the company. So, we
have made significant compromise to try to do the right thing for the neighbors behind the
shopping center and the reality is in the 35 years that I have developed shopping centers
I can say without a doubt that the amount of buffering that we have created with this --
from the back of our store to these residents, in addition to the design changes that Winco
has been willing to make, is far superior to anything that we have done and so we have
made significant compromise.
Cavener: Appreciate your testimony. Thank you.
Goins: Sure.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Goins: Thank you.
De Weerd: Council, any other questions for the applicant? Any final comment?
Howell: Madam Mayor, City Council, I -- I would be remiss if -- if I did not also say, as I
think I have said every time that -- that we have appeared in front of you, that we also
appreciate your due diligence and the questions and -- and the issues that you do on a
daily basis, not only for this project, but for your City of Meridian. For those of us who
have grown up as lifetime Idahoans and lifetime Treasure Valley residents , it's gratifying
to see Meridian transform from what I remember Meridian being of a very very tiny
agricultural community to what has become the envy of a lot of municipal areas, not only
in Idaho, but across the United States and that didn't happen by accident , that happened
by the work that you did and it happened by the concern that you have in looking out not
only for your residents, but for your city as well, and I will tell you honestly that as difficult
as that makes the lives of someone like me who appears before city councils on a regular
basis, there is not a day that doesn't pass when I go home at the end of these kind of
hearings and say, you know, this may not be the best system in the world, but it's the best
system we got and it sure seems to work pretty well. So, thank you for the effort that you
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have done. The only thing I would say finally in closing is that we do agree with the staff
conditions that have been -- been discussed. We do agree with staff that this is a project
that meets the requirements of the city, even with the additional sizes of the buildings that
have been mentioned by a number of the residents that because of the open space and
the extra open space that has been brought to this project and there is a document that's
in the record before you that shows that open space calculation to fully meet the expanded
size of the facilities in this project. So , we very much appreciate your time and attention
and consideration of this and I think, as I have said before, your past comments and
concerns have made this a better project. Thank you.
De Weerd: Ken, I guess I do have one more question and it's about the construction
traffic. Can you keep ingress and egress -- if Council were to approve this -- to ensure
that construction traffic is not going through the neighborhood?
Howell: Madam Mayor, if you're asking if we would make that instruction to our
construction partners and team that they not use -- you know, that they -- they stay within
the state highway system or however we were to phrase that, certainly that would be
instruction we could make to our construction partners. If there needs to be some kind of
temporary signage in place that says construction access here only or something along
those lines. If you're asking me to guarantee that I'm going to ride along with every
construction driver and say, no, you can't -- you can't do that.
De Weerd: I am asking that.
Howell: Okay. The honest answer is, I'm sorry, Madam Mayor, no, I can't do that. But,
no, we can certainly --
De Weerd: You brought it up.
Howell: Yeah. I know. I know.
De Weerd: Just thought it was a great offer.
Howell: It wasn't an offer. It was -- it was a disclaimer. But, certainly, we can -- we can
make that request and we can do our best to try to enforce it.
De Weerd: And can you just -- the phasing of it -- when the collector road goes in and
any connector into -- the connector at Bergman, what -- where does that happen?
Howell: ACHD required that it be done in phase one.
De Weerd: The connector to Bergman?
Howell: The connection from Bergman to the collector road, yes. Phase one.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
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Howell: That's an ACHD requirement.
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: You had mentioned that you were okay with the staff conditions. Just a question
on -- on one of them that the Planning and Zoning Commission had recommended be
added to the staff report. I seem to remember that there was some objection to it. You
can let me know if there was -- where they had said to add a requirement for some of the
-- of the multi-story office live-work units be constructed with the first phase.
Howell: Yeah. Madam Mayor, Councilman Palmer, I did address that in my opening
comment. So, thank you for reminding me to -- to mention that again. Yes, Planning and
Zoning did recommend that the live-work units, which are -- oops. Where did we go? I
think we are both trying to hit the same button at the same time. The live-work units,
which I'm -- I'm circling right here, right near the new signal on Linder Road, these two,
which are directly behind the Winco, those were the two live-work units that Planning and
Zoning recommended be required to be constructed in phase one and I can tell you ,
Councilman Palmer, that that discussion was at about 12:03 or 1:00 o'clock in the morning
when we were talking, again, about the sound issues and they -- it was their
understanding and belief that they would serve as additional buffering to the
neighborhood. We did confirm with the -- the sound engineer that the sound studies were
completed without regard to those facilities , so their construction in phase one has no
bearing on the sound issues and it was our desire that we go ahead and be allowed to
construct those buildings, not necessarily in phase one, but as the normal marketing and
ability to have the least up, would occur in the overall development of the project. So,
that was our request for -- that the City Council not adopt that recommended condition by
Planning and Zoning.
Palmer: Thank you.
Howell: And, then, the only other condition that I think Planning and Zoning
recommended is that we have this concept of the signed, sealed and delivered contract
for the connection through to Fox Run with Brighton Corporation and I think I have
explained as fully as I possibly can why we are effectively there with that condition, but
it's dependent on ACHD completing those right of way negotiations.
De Weerd: And I don't know if we have ever made that a condition, other than you can't
move forward unless you have it, so --
Howell: Yeah. Ultimately, Madam Mayor, I think that's right. At the end of the day this
either has to be completed or we don't get our certificate of occupancy. So , I think it's --
it's become self-fulfilling at that point.
De Weerd: I believe that Council Member Bernt had asked the question on the civic piece
of this mixed use that if the library wasn't to happen what is your civic piece then. I don't
remember how you answered that.
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Howell: Madam Mayor, how I answered that is that we did have some alternate
discussions that have been going on and those included a number of ideas. There is not
a definitive Plan B that if there is no library, then, it is X, but there is a range of things that
would be X and the types of things we are talking about as amphitheater, a public theater,
something that ties in with the public use of that plaza. In other words, it's not that we are
looking to lease it up to be a wine shop or something like that, but it's, rather, a public use.
So, Councilman Bernt, I think pushed me a little bit on saying what specifically is your
Plan B and I think I was as candid as I could in answering that question in saying there is
not a specific Plan B to say if it's not a library, then, it's a this. But it is --
De Weerd: But you know it needs to be a public --
Howell: -- a public use.
De Weerd: Yes.
Howell: Exactly.
De Weerd: Okay. Anything further from Council? Okay.
Howell: Again, thanks.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Just a suggestion that maybe we don't immediately close the public hearing
while Council --
De Weerd: I would make the same suggestion.
Cavener: I think that's a fantastic idea.
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor. I was wondering if we could have police and fire weigh in,
if they have any comments, especially along the Chinden corridor with potentially the left
turn in, if there were any concerns there regarding safety.
De Weerd: Okay. Lieutenant Harper.
Harper: Madam Mayor, Council Woman Mrs. Anne Little Roberts, I think from listening to
all this, not only from a police side, but as a citizen traveling this area, I have got to look
at it from both sides. I think with ITD's studies they track those numbers a lot closer than
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we do. We respond to these accidents that occur, but there were some comments made
in regards to flashing left-hand turn arrows, which we have throughout the city, but I think
in regards to what we are talking about here is strictly a left turn into this development ;
correct? I can't report exact numbers, but reading the report that Lieutenant Colaianni
provided there was no specific concerns directly related to the traffic plan or design of the
roadway for this project.
Bongiorno: And we know -- we all know Chinden Boulevard is going to be changed and
I really don't have any comments on it until it's completed. I don't know if this is what the
layout is going to look like. I'm of the same opinion as Lieutenant Harper, I don't -- I don't
have any comments on it one way or the other at this point.
De Weerd: Thank you. Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: No. I'm good.
De Weerd: Okay.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: So, I will make some comments and if -- I know we are striving to do better with
findings, so if it comes down the road after maybe some other people make some
comments that if I end up making a motion that maybe what I'm about to say might
contribute towards findings, but just some of the things that kind of stick out to me as
important in this is I -- I believe that the -- the connection of Bergman is critical. I can't
imagine us wanting to send the entire population of Paramount to an arterial or state
highway to get there when they would have a direct connection there. That being said, I
do understand the concern of cut through is because I have cut through plenty of places
myself. Having grown up here I know every little street and I have taken advantage of it.
Well, with that I also believe that the -- having additional connections outside of the
development would also be necessary, so the connections on Chinden. As we have seen
with The Village, you know, ITD after they had some data that the left turn in into The
Village was not a safe option, they made it a right-in, right-out. The difference there is
this is a significantly greater distance from Linder than that intersection was to Fairview,
so I don't know if it would become a similar situation or not, but if it was they would no
doubt shut it down and make it also just a right-in, right-out. To be able to approve the
variance -- spent a lot of the meeting, you don't think about it, taking notes and considering
what a lot of neighbors said. Under the three points, the -- the variance can't grant a right
or special privilege. We already understand from Mr. Nary that it is something that we
have done in similar situations, it's done right across the street, there is not really a
concern there. The variance relieves an undue hardship because of characteristics of
the site. This one for me -- if you look at the Village, for example, another very large
multiple business development. The Village only has a few connections out to Eagle
Road, but they have a distinct advantage over this property in that they have over a mile
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long road on the back of it to be able to escape without having to drive up a n arterial in
Records. Records provides a great way to be able to get out of there without having to
go into a neighborhood or go onto Eagle or to Fairview. I believe that the undue hardship
here is that, really, the only way to get out is -- if we don't grant the variance is the two
ways or through the neighborhood. So , to avoid, you know, the hardship of not only the
neighbors having additional traffic going through there, but, you know, fewer escape
routes from the property, but the hardship would be satisfied by having those additional
exits onto the Chinden. Variance can't be detrimental to public health, safety and welfare.
I would say ITD's acceptance of the option of having the exits on Chinden, that it wouldn't
be contributing to the -- to an unsafe situation. If it was ITD would, again, rectify it as they
did on Eagle Road with The Village situation. When we get to that point I -- obviously,
you can tell by now I -- I do favor approval of it. I would be fine with eliminating the
requirement that the Planning and Zoning Commission recommended by having those
buildings constructed. It makes sense to me that they be done in the normal course of
marketing, you know, the product and -- and having whatever other services available
before they build those. Under the outstanding issues for Council, clearly the situation
with the connecting to Fox Run is going to work out, otherwise it's going to be a pretty big
hardship on the development itself not having that access there . So, I'm not concerned
about that. Our approval is required to have the additional access onto Linder, with the
east-west collector street. We should definitely approve that. Again, to satisfy a lot of the
neighbors' concerns that have the -- the easiest possible route away from the
development without having to go through the neighborhood. That's all for now. I'm sure
I will have 15 other things to say later on.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Palmer. Is their comment? Mrs. Little Roberts?
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor. First of all, I would just like to say to the citizens that are
still here and have been here through multiple times, thank you so much for your input
and sitting through many many hours of this as we -- we try to very very carefully weigh
your testimony and the hundreds of e-mails we have received and just thank you. Thank
you very much. Hopefully we are -- are getting down to where we have really addressed
things, because everything that has been your concern is also ours, especially regarding
safety and, hopefully, the -- the change in Bergman has mitigated a lot of that, the
narrowing and the things as we see progress through the changes and things. So, at this
point I am inclined to agree that we should move ahead with this. I think that, you know,
so many people have reached out and said that we are -- they are excited about Winco,
we want -- they want to see Winco here, that it's a great addition to the community. It's
certainly a Treasure Valley business which we are thrilled, but it is a local business and I
think -- I haven't counted them exactly, but I would say e-mails have run probably ten to
one in favor of and I think that the communi ty really is -- overall the majority are excited
about it and just wanted to add that on record.
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Appreciate the commentary from some of my
council members. This has been a unique project for me to see kind of the ebbs and
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flows. I think -- and the -- the clerk can maybe tell me if I'm wrong -- I think this particular
project has generated more e-mail than any other project we have ever seen and both
the people in favor and those both against , which shows the passion in and around this
project. By and large I am supportive of this concept plan that has been brought before
us. I think it's important to note that I don't disregard my fellow council members opinions.
When I look at an application I don't look at the -- you know, the proper nouns that are on
-- on the map. I don't look at there is going to be a Winco or Chili's or a Home Depot or
whatever. We really have to look at the map as a whole and that's at least how I -- how I
look at it. I also know because of my past career that just because a business occupies
a building for one year or five years or 20 years that does not always mean that they are
going to be there into -- in perpetuity. So, with that I think that's why I'm for the most part
supportive of the site map. I do have some concerns about some of the access points
impacting the residential neighborhood and while I may be alone , I do have some
significant concerns about the 24 hour operation of that large retailer. In addition, I have
some concerns just about the -- the delivery hours of a facility like that. Appreciate the
comments that have come from the likely tenants should this be approved. I do think that
there are some potential mitigations around that that I would be supportive of, but at least
as presented tonight this is not an application that I am in support of.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor. And probably a question -- question for Mr. Nary. Can we
ban --
De Weerd: Is your --
Little Roberts: Oh, sorry. Can we ban vehicles with backup beepers between certain
hours, between 11 :00 and 6:00 a.m? We all seemed to be concerned with that issue of
noise.
Nary: So, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Little Roberts, yes,
but it would be a DA violation, it wouldn't be a citable offense. So, from the enforcement
side it would be very difficult for us to -- to enforce something that narrow, because police
wouldn't respond. It doesn't -- under our ordinance that's not prohibited. So , it would be
a little bit more difficult to do that. It -- you could add it, but I just -- from an enforcement
side I just want to be realistic, I don't know how realistic it would be to enforce that.
Little Roberts: Thank you.
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: For those who showed up this evening I know that there is always the perception
that City Council just doesn't care and I can -- I can assure you that -- just ask my wife,
she can tell you -- she can tell you that I care. We all care. There is a lot of thought that
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goes into this. There is a lot of other questions, a lot of the late nights, but I am grateful
for those who have showed up. I'm grateful for those who have expressed their concerns.
I'm grateful for those who have came and -- and -- in support and ultimately I'm grateful
for the -- the -- the developer and the applicant who have came forth and -- and who have
listened relatively so. I mean when I was on P&Z I remember what this -- this project
looked like to begin with and it's changed, there is no doubt about it. At the end of the
day do I wish there was more of like a lifestyle center type project, absolutely. I wish there
was more walkability. But I'm not a planner and I'm not a designer, we just -- we just vote
on what we think is necessary and what's beneficial for the community. I would hope and
I would require that if we do vote on this this evening that -- that we require an agreement
from Brighton, Mr. Turnbull and DMG, before we continue. I do have concerns about
delivery hours. I do believe that they should -- we should set delivery hours in this
particular application. I understand Winco's business model of opening, you know, their
being open 24/7. I'm in support of that. I understand why that is. There has been many
times throughout the years when I have been at Winco, you know, dodging boxes in the
middle of, you know, walkways, because folks are stocking the shelves and I have never
had any issue with that and I have been one of those guys that have bought diapers. So,
I get that. It's been a while -- it's been a long time, but I certainly have been one of those
-- those guys. I do believe to have this application with this designation , I do believe a
plaza or a civic type application needs to be there. I understand that we are hoping for
the library, but if history goes -- says anything that might be -- I don't want to create a
perception that's going to be something that's not going to happen , but it -- you know, I
would hope that you guys would have a Plan B, a Plan C, a list of options available,
because I do believe that this really contributes to the civic and the, you know, part of
what this application provides. As far as traffic -- traffic calming is concerned, I agree with
Councilman Palmer, I do believe that connectivity is absolutely essential to anything that
we do. I think -- I just -- I know there is folks out here that -- and we can agree to disagree,
but that doesn't mean I hate you, it just means I just disagree or I -- but I do believe that
-- that it would be very difficult to -- to -- living in Paramount to have to go to Linder or
Chinden or -- or Meridian Road to -- to get to this development. Just, honestly, I think that
is making sense and so -- but we need to find a solution to create more of a traffic calming
method. One of the things I was thinking of is maybe eliminating that little small road right
next to the pool and making -- maybe putting -- or making folks drive over to Fox Run,
maybe put -- like Mr. McKinney said, put a roundabout there, that would -- I think that
would make it so that people wouldn't necessarily -- would at least think twice about going
that direction. I do believe there is going to be some traffic issues. We hear -- in every
application we hear there is always issues about traffic, you know, cut through traffic. I
live in Woodbridge. There is massive amounts of cut through traffic and most of the time
I believe our staff does a fantastic job of vetting these -- certain applications and they give
pointers of maybe things that we loo k -- look at and -- and when it comes to us those
things are taken care of, but I really do believe in this case you might have a little bit more
than normal, because I do -- in two spots I have looked at they are fairly -- and I get going
through Paramount it's a maze. I get that. There is no doubt about it. But I do believe
there is going to be a little bit more cut through traffic than normal , so I would -- I would
be for talking about traffic calming measures. I want to see a final design review on -- on
-- on the Winco to see what it's going to look like. I'm not a hundred percent convinced
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that it's not going to look like a big box store and when you're up against residential , I --
you know, I would like to see -- I just want to see it. I'm not saying that you're selling us
a different bag of goods, but I just would like to see what it 's going to look like. I think
that's a reasonable offer. I want to make sure that it -- it correlates with the rest of the --
with the rest of the development. Let me see here. I got a bunch of notes. It's all scribble.
I think that's it, Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: Okay. Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I got a lot of scribbles going on here, too. Overall I'm supportive of this application.
I think that they have done a great job bringing it back and making some concessions to
try to appease the neighbors. As far as Bergman goes, I think that they are probably --
I'm sure there are -- obviously there are some residents that don't want that direct access,
but I think it's quite necessary and I think that many of the residents there will use it on a
regular basis, but I -- I like Mr. McKinney's idea of having several roundabouts down
Bergman and I think that alone will really reduce the number of -- of anybody that's trying
to cut through there, because if you would have to go in a circle and circle and a circle
and a circle to get down that road, it really takes away that whole point, which is making
it easier. I would be a perfect candidate for cutting through thi s -- through Paramount,
because I live just on the other side off of Meridian at McMillan and I was looking at -- you
showed me the way that I could do that. I really don't think that I would . I live on -- the
other side of me is Sundance and cutting through Paramount reminds me of trying to cut
through Sundance, which just gets you lost every time. I have lived there for -- in that
house for nine years and I still really can't cut through that subdivision. So, I don't think
it's going to happen as much as you are anticipating and I hope that it doesn't . Surely
there will be some. Is the -- part of -- part of the same issue that goes along with that is
the traffic and the -- and the safety issues with the kids. Having the store open 24 hours
reduces the amount of traffic that will be during school hours and during peak hours. It
allows for people to go shopping at 11:00 o'clock or 12:00 o'clock at night, which reduces
the amount of traffic that's on the road during the daytime when most people are out. The
loading, the delivery, I mean I think that -- I like the fact that they don't have beepers on
their trucks and they are -- the only trucks that are going to be there between 11 :00 and
6:00. So, it sounds like it shouldn't be a problem. I still think that that should be part of
the agreement, that only the -- only the nonbeeping trucks will be there. I'm not worried
about the agreement with Brighton. I think that will -- they have got a letter, they have got
-- that has to -- it has to happen in order for that to work out anyway. Let's see. The
overall traffic, and once the improvements are done overall traffic I think it 's going to be
better than it is currently and I'm pretty sure that the -- it has to be complete before they
can get a certificate of occupancy. So, whether it's -- whatever -- certainly phase one,
because they can't do anything before it's finished anyway. I do you think using the word
village is a misleading PR opportunity that you have used, because the Village At Meridian
has made this beautiful amazing experience. Trying to piggyback on that and make
people feel like that -- this is kind of like that, it isn't. This is -- it's a great shopping center,
but it's not The Village and I would like the design to come back before Council before
final approval. I think that's it.
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Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: All right. So, before I make a motion, trying to maybe satisfy some of the
concerns that Councilman Bernt mentioned --
De Weerd: I think there is a couple more comments, too, before you make a motion.
Palmer: Did you -- okay. So, in the -- in the staff report as it talks about it almost every
time when there is a development agreement, it says future development of the site shall
substantially comply with the concept site plan and it lists a whole bunch of things and it
says and conceptual building elevations included in exhibits. So, I really don't want to go
through what we did with Costco. That was a fiasco where we decided that we were
going to approve the design and , then, we went back and forth with the developer on --
on approving a design and what we had told them we wanted to do. They came -- so,
that we would have a public hearing on it and the final approval and every neighbor
showed up again that just didn't want the Costco and, then, we said, okay, never mind,
go meet with the neighbors again and, then, it was a whole different design than what we
had even said. So, I think if -- if we are fine with what they are proposing we are covered
with what's going to be in the development agreement. We have done it hundreds of
times. I trust staff to make sure that it is in substantial compliance with what they are
proposing and, then, back on -- if we could switch back over to the -- the site plan there.
I was intrigued by your idea, Councilman Bernt, on kind of moving the road, but, then, I
got looking closely at the -- the lines that are kind of faded in there and realized that if that
-- if Bergman was to be moved, you know, over and, then, connect up to Fox Run, that
would drive that traffic straight through a future residential development and as Mr.
McKinney had kind of explained, that he liked what had happened there, because, you
know, if you came in and immediately could just turn left, go straight, turn right, go straight
and, then, make one more turn and you're in the neighborhood, I think it's far less of a
pain than take a curve, a curve, a left, a right, a left. I think what the plan that they went
with is -- is the less convenient way to get into the neighborhood and it also avoids having
to push additional traffic through what will be that future development.
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: One thing -- thank you, Madam Mayor. One thing I failed to mention. If we were
to mess with that road I would add like a little pathway, you know, from -- so -- so, the bike
-- bikers and -- and those who are pedestrians could -- could access that development
easier. Just a thought that I had.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
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Milam: I agree there definitely should some good pedestrian access -- access, but I think
I saw Lieutenant Harper -- could we ask him if he had some input on safety issues?
Harper: Yeah. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, a couple of things. We keep
getting back to cut through traffic. We get a lot of complaints throughout the city -- all
parts of the city in the residential areas about speeding traffic, high volumes of traffic going
through different subdivisions. When we send out units and our traffic units to address
those issues, we come to find out a lot of those people actually live in those subdivisions
who are driving reckless, driving well over the speed limit, those types of things. So, I
think -- there was some comments made about kind of the spaghetti feel of -- of
Paramount trying to get through there. It does get confusing driving through there, but
from my knowledge and from what we have seen, the majority of the people aren't cutting
through the subdivision to try to get to another main roadway, they are actually residing
in that subdivision. That's -- I just wanted to add that on the record.
De Weerd: Thank you. I -- I will first preface my comments. I'm not cutting through your
neighborhood. W hen I get lost in it I'm actually trying to find something. So, I'm not sure
about cut through traffic, because it is really complicated until -- I guess you really know
and I have been to Paramount Elementary a lot and I still get lost. So, cut through traffic
-- I used to live three blocks from an elementary school and, unfortunately, our collector
street had our driveways set back out onto the road, so it made that connector even more
of a problem. I'm -- I'm sympathetic to the -- to the families that are concerned for their
kids, because I certainly know my neighbors were the worst offenders , because I knew
every one of them that sped by my house as I was walking my kids to school. It -- it really
concerns me when I hear people testify about their kids playing in the street and that this
is going to make it dangerous. Don't let your kids play in the street. It is not -- it's not safe
and that's not what streets are for. Streets are actually for cars and I -- and I don't say
that trying to demean any of the comments, but as parents we do need to take
responsibility for the safety of our kids, because, unfortunately, there are drivers out there
that are -- are -- they are not all teenagers, they are -- they are distracted, they are on
their phones and it's -- it's all of our responsibility to keep our kids safe . Bergman -- and
so, first, I would like to thank the -- the applicant taking the traffic off of Arliss and making
that a connection to that connector was appreciated. I think for the most part when you
look at the -- the connection to Paramount -- and you do need to have a connection and,
Mr. McKinney, I appreciate your -- your courage to get up in front of your neighbors and
talk about the -- the connectivity and for -- for traffic flow it makes sense. You don't want
to send all your cars out onto the arterial. So, thank you for that. It is important. But
Bergman is one of those that don't have driveways that backup to the road and it is the
most logical place to connect the subdivision to -- to the subdivision or to the development
to the north. I would like to see -- and I'm glad we still have this hearing open . I would
like to see that -- the developer work with the HOA to put some kind of a speed mitigation
in their subdivision where it connects to the east-west street. I can't remember -- I don't
know what street that is, but as that goes into the development to slow that traffic down
and that -- that connection is -- is important. I would agree with Lieutenant Harper and I
knew the people that were -- and -- and I feel like I'm cut through traffic every time I go to
the grocery store now, because I do drive through my neighborhood to go to Albertsons
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and -- and that -- that -- that is -- I think it's better than putting me out onto the arterial.
They drive by my house now, I drive by their house, so we are even. I appreciate Winco
moving their building. That loading dock was a concern for all of us and I have been up
here a long time, I have seen loading docks -- in fact, I was joking with an applicant for
Planning and Zoning Commission earlier today, because my first development application
was in 1998 and it was the Crossroad Subdivision and if you go to the Crossroads
Subdivision those big buildings are up against residential. There is a -- a road that
separates them and -- and they get deliveries all the time and I do have friends that live
in that neighborhood. One, they were afraid of cut through traffic. They -- they don't get
it, because you get lost in that subdivision, too. And the -- there are a couple of people I
know that -- that did move after that development went through, but I also know people
who live there now and -- and they are just as happy because they live by their services.
I think one person testified that it is important to have services closer to where people live
and in our Comprehensive Plan update that has been something that has been said over
and over and over again. We need to bring services closer to where people live to start
capturing some of those trips. Yes, it's going to attract trips as well, but it's going to
capture them and this does bring services closer to where people live. This development
is not just the bare minimum. This development is -- is much better than many that we
see and does that mean that we better start looking at our minimums ? Yeah, perhaps.
And that is something that our staff has asked this Council. If you don't like getting the
minimum, you better start looking at the minimum and I believe that's what Councilman
Palmer has said as well, is, hey, if you're not good with the -- the minimums, then, change
them. But people need to know what to expect when we are getting developments. I
think this represents compromise. It hasn't met every single thing that the -- the neighbors
have wanted, but this is a different application than we saw and I think it makes -- it has
come a long way and I appreciate the neighbors who have stayed here and stuck through
it. The public process is -- is sometimes clunky and messy and -- and you feel that you're
not heard, but if you look at the first application you will see how far it has come and they
maybe didn't meet with you frequently along the way or maybe not at all from what I've
heard, but they have heard you and they have changed things and I think in the end that's
-- that's the most important aspect is -- is your testimony made this a better application ,
because they -- maybe they had to listen to you because the Council has made it pretty
clear, but I think they have come a long way and they have -- they have brought back a
better development because of that. To Denise's comments about who is going to take
responsibility. Well, I think we do and, unfortunately, our state is not funding -- they are
not accepting their responsibility, yet I don't see anyone -- and I beg people to call your
legislators and say why aren't we funding these. The legislature is developing tools to
help fund some of these projects and this development and others have used the tool
and, frankly, it's the only way we are getting this improvement. It's not the reason to
approve this development, but you also have to say, yeah, it's a loan that will be paid back
and the taxpayer benefits because we get this for -- for money that -- of today's expenses,
instead of down the road when it's even more expensive to do it and I think that's doing
everyone in that northern area a benefit, as well as the hundreds of thousands of cars
that travel through that corridor on a monthly basis that are not Meridian residents and
these developments are part of those solutions. We all have to work together to find
solutions to our transportation issues, because, frankly, the city doesn't do roads, but I will
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tell you what, the city has been one of the problem solvers in a lot of our road issues,
because we work with the developers to bring solutions to the table and I'm proud of what
our staff does day in and day out when they meet with developers and with our
transportation partners to find solutions that are going to happen today, instead of ten
years from now. So, I will get off my soapbox, but I do think that there has been a lot of
compromise on this. I have been to Winco at -- at 2:00 a.m., not for diapers for a long
time, but, boy, I have -- I have seen an empty parking lot and it's usually me and five
others. So, it's not a huge influx of people that are -- are out there buying diapers at that
time in the morning, but it is something that's necessary. Otherwise, we hit the road and
we drive a long way to try and find services that should be available in our backya rd on
regional infrastructure and Linder is one of those few roads that go over the river, over
the railroad tracks, and -- and do give a north-south connection and I do hope at some
point has an overpass, so -- there you have it.
Bongiorno: Madam Mayor? Over here.
De Weerd: Yes. Hi, Joe.
Bongiorno: Since we are talking traffic calming devices and safety, if this does proceed
forward I hope discussions would include the fire department , please.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: I move we closed the public hearing on Item --
De Weerd: Oh, before we do, can I ask Ken about the traffic calming measure and -- it's
an off-site improvement that I would ask of the developer, but can you work with them to
get a traffic calming just to the south of whatever that road that runs parallel -- can anyone
tell me what road that is? Neighbors? This one that's between -- that connects Arliss and
Bergman what is that east-west. Yes. Bacall. Just south of Bacall. It's on Bergman. If
you can get some -- somewhere in there a traffic calming measure.
Howell: Of some type.
De Weerd: Of some type.
Howell: Yes.
De Weerd: Work with the -- please work with the neighbors, too --
Howell: Yes.
De Weerd: -- and the fire department. Although I don't know, I -- that would be miserable.
I would rather work with the neighbors. Sorry, Joe.
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Howell: Madam Mayor, we will work with who is --
De Weerd: I bet they would be easier to work with. Sorry.
Howell: We will work with who is required, but I might have to have a ride in the fire trucks.
De Weerd: Over the speed bumps. That would be fun.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: And at the end of the day I think ACHD has to approve -- have to approve that
anyway, so you have lots of people to work with to make that Christmas miracle happen.
De Weerd: It is a condition, Justin. He's nodding. So, there you go.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: I move we close the public hearing on Item 9-B.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. All those in favor
say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: So, Mr. Nary, Sonya, Caleb, in my earlier comments was there anything I missed
that I should not have missed? You wrote them all down and have perfect --
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Palmer, what I wasn't
clear on is I think you made enough of a comment on the variance . In the alternative,
would you also agree that you have the ability in your code to also grant it without a
variance? So, that if a court were to consider it they -- this Council's opinion is we think
there is enough evidence for a variance to be granted and in the alternative, even if it
wasn't enough, we can grant it anyway. That's what we did in the -- in the prior application
regarding Costco.
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Palmer: Madam Mayor. Absolutely. That was my intent. So, thanks for --
Nary: I thought that's what --
Palmer: Yeah. You had explained very well, the -- the two options to cover us there and
I definitely intended to take advantage of both of them if necessary. So, then, with that I
move that we approve H-2017-0088 with all of my previous comments, including not
requiring in that first phase that live-work -- the live-work structures be built.
Bernt: Not requiring? Excuse me?
Palmer: Not requiring it.
De Weerd: Prior to --
Palmer: In first -- in the first phase.
De Weerd: Okay.
Palmer: And approving that access of the east-west collector to Linder and everything
else that I mentioned. If that's a sufficient motion, Mr. Nary.
De Weerd: Well, only if it's sufficient to Council to know what your motion you just made
was.
Palmer: Is there anyone on Council that is unclear from my comments before what I'm
intending to happen? Anybody want to second it?
De Weerd: So, do I have a second?
Little Roberts: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a second. Do I have discussion?
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Palmer, I thought I heard
you earlier say the renderings that were proposed in the application of the site was
sufficient for the development agreement at this time to be in substantial compliance. The
alternative to the roadway access through the adjacent property, the testimony and
discussion was that that will happen in due course. There is a process that takes place
that has to get completed and that they would need that prior to C of O. Is that adequate
for the Council's desires? Was that intended as well?
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Palmer: Madam Mayor, Mr. Nary, correct.
Nary: Okay.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
Nary: That's the only two things I wasn't clear on.
Bernt: To clarify, Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: Is that -- are we talking about the Fox Run?
Nary: Yes.
Bernt: Okay.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Does this include a tot lot?
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Oh, my gosh.
Milam: Okay. But really --
De Weerd: That wasn't serious.
Milam: I really would like something about -- more about the design review than just
meeting basic standards, so -- I'm okay with it, except for that. And I don't know -- that
doesn't necessarily mean we have to do another -- whatever happened with the other
application, but we could prepare the -- the developer to work with the neighbors to bring
something back, other than go back and forth and back and forth and not hav e another
public hearing, just getting people against the project, but just for the design, to make
sure that it fits in with the neighborhood and the -- more of an upscale -- something.
Something to kind of guarantee that there is -- it's more than just a brick wall.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
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Bernt: Along with that are -- I would be also open to the discussion in regard to creating
hours of deliveries between a certain amount of time. I, too, am in favor of a final design
review. I don't know if it necessarily needs to involve a final say from -- from residents.
Their input would be nice. Maybe like a -- like a public meeting of some type so that
residents can just give their point of view. I know it was a process with the Winco -- with
the Costco folks, but the net result was something that looked amazing and -- and as a
-- as a decision making body we only have one shot at this. You know, I mean this is
going to be a development that will -- will -- you know, many generations will love and
enjoy and frequent. So, if it requires another meeting to get it right and to verify and
confirm that it's right I -- just don't -- I think that's a reason -- reasonable ask in my opinion.
I could be -- I'm only one vote, but that's -- that's my -- that's my opinion. Those are the
two issues. I think we talked about traffic calming.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: As I recall we only had one comment about wanting to ensure anything about
the design. To have a whole other meeting and open up this disgusting can of worms that
we did before, I mean -- I don't believe we have that short of memories. Remember what
a chaotic mess that was. But there doesn't appear to be any real objection of the design,
with the exception of wanting to avoid some metal and to increase the amount of rock.
So, I believe if that were to happen it would still probably be in substantial compliance
and I see the applicant is taking notes, so if they do that, great, but I believe that the
design isn't objectionable and it will have to be in substantial compliance and we have
learned, you know, over the last year with discussions with Caleb that they are very
cognizant of the desire to ensure that the things do apply to what they are supposed to in
down into the detail of us discussing whether we are going to require certain articulations
on single level versus two story houses that are abutting arterial roads. So, I think we are
covered and I don't think that we as a council need to get deeper into the architectural
design business.
Cavener: Call the question then.
Hood: Madam Mayor, just one clarification before the call for the -- sorry. Madam Mayor,
you asked the applicant if they would be willing to consider the off site -- some form of
traffic calming there at Bacall and Bergman. I did not hear that in Councilman Palmer's
original quasi motion, nor did I hear it after. So, just a clarification for the maker of the
motion and the second, if that is also part of this and include that in this or if that was --
just kind of need to know for clarity if -- if that is a requirement to work with ACHD and --
and assuming ACHD will allow that and -- and the fire department and so on and so forth.
Palmer: Madam Mayor. Yes. Assuming everybody's on board that needs to be on board,
then, build it.
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De Weerd: Mr. Bernt, if -- if you gave the applicant and staff a little bit more ideas of what
you would like to see the Winco, perhaps have a couple of more elements to it that would
match the building on the other side of the plaza, just giving a little bit better sense of what
you're looking for. Otherwise, I would -- putting a staff hat on, are we are going to start
designing every business that comes in front of us that --
Bernt: No.
De Weerd: And -- and that's -- that's certainly a concern with doing -- we need to look at
our design standards and say things are not sufficient. I -- we are getting into kind of a
slippery slope of what we are going to be designers and engineers and planners and --
you just need to give better guidance on what you're looking for if -- if that's going to be a
concern that would prompt a vote either direction, you at least need to give some more
idea of what you're talking about.
Cavener: Madam Mayor. Oh, sorry. I didn't know if your question was for Council
Member Bernt or not.
De Weerd: It was.
Cavener: Okay. Well, I will allow him to answer. I don't want to --
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: Madam Mayor. I want it to flow. I want it to match the --
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: If Council were to ask to be able to have an opportunity to review the design of
the building, I don't think that's us getting into designing it. What I think the direction could
potentially be was for the applicant to work with the neighbors . I overheard as we were
getting ready for a meeting tonight Mr. McKinney shook Mrs. Reynolds' hand and said,
you know, world champions always shake hands and I thought that was so fitting, because
we have a world champion in a developer and a world champion in this neighborhood
group that are really wanting to find opportunities to work together. I trust wholeheartedly
that the neighbors and the developer can engage each other, work collaboratively, and
come up with something and Mr. Palmer is right, it might be a little messy, but this project
has been a little messy. Making sausage is messy and I agree with Council Member
Bernt, we get one chance to do this right. One of the things that we have heard time and
time again is that we want to hear from our neighbors. This is a piece that they want to
engage in. I'm supportive of making sure that this amazing development that's going to
be here for a long period of time meshes well, flows well with the surrounding
neighborhood. So, I'm -- I'm supportive of that particular piece for what it's worth. I -- I
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commend Council Member Bernt and Council Member Milam for kind of leading the
charge on that. I think it's -- it's good direction to provide.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: Is there any -- is there any discussion regard to delivery hours? Am I the only one
that feels like this is an important conversation to have ?
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: I think if we were going to restrict hours it would have made any shifting or
redesign of the building pointless. If we are going to restrict hours they could have done
whatever design they had originally, but they have gone to -- to me excessive lengths to
-- to mitigate every possible thing that they could do that still made sense business wise
to -- to make this happen, so that they would still be able to have 24/7 deliveries. Can we
vote?
De Weerd: Is there any further comments?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Before we take a vote I just -- I want to just shed some light on something. I
received a text message from a member of the public about this after the public hearing
was closed. I'm not taking that information into consideration, but just wanted to add it to
the record that I received a text message from somebody in the audience providing some
feedback about the application.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
Cavener: I wish they wouldn't have, but -- and I don't think it was done with bad intentions,
but I just think it's important that we disclose that, because sometimes people like to know
what we are being texted -- or when we are being texted.
De Weerd: Please don't text us.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
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Milam: I still feel like I would like the final approval on -- on the design and I think this is
something that we learned through the Costco process and although it was very difficult
and it took way longer than it should have, maybe we can learn by that and make -- speed
this process up a little bit, but what we got out of that was a tremendous store that had
we not insisted on that would have just been another prison-looking big box like this one.
So, I -- you know, I don't know if this substantially looks like a lot of the other designs, I'm
good with that, but it doesn't in these renderings. So, that's why I say I would like at least
approval at the end and I would like -- I don't want to design it, I would like the developer
to work with the -- with the residents, if that's something that they are interested in doing,
and just make sure that it looks very much like the other buildings in the development as
much as possible, without making it all glass. I guess it can't be an all glass store.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other comments? Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll call: Borton, absent; Milam, nay; Cavener, nay; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea;
Bernt, nay.
MOTION FAILED: TWO AYES. THREE NAYS. ONE ABSENT.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: If -- okay. So, I'm -- I have got a question for the applicant, so I move we reopen
the public hearing on Item 9-D.
Cavener: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to reopen the public hearing and have Mr.
Howell come forward. Oh. All those in favor say aye. I'm sorry. I just did it.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Palmer: Madam Mayor? So, before I ask the question of the applicant, I'm going to ask
a question of Council. If the applicant is agreeable to it, are -- is the rest of Council fine if
-- if we add in the language substantial compliance with the designs of what's on the
screen right now, as opposed to the actual Winco building design that was in the
presentation? I agree they -- I think they look better, but I'm fine with the other one.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: This is the deal. They don't look the same. I'm looking at this right here where it
says signage, this building that says signage, it does not look like the Winco building. It's
a completely different look. I just -- all I'm wanting them to do is look the same. If that
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building that just said signage looks exactly -- and you can make the Winco look exactly
the same, then, we are good. I'm just -- I'm just looking at this building that says signage
and I'm now looking at the Winco building, they do not look the same. They don't -- they
don't -- they don't look the same. That looks like a grocery store in the middle of a
marketplace and I'm just telling you right now, in my opinion, that doesn't fly. We don't
need -- we don't need to extend this a month, two months, three months, we don't need
to complicate this. It's an easy process. They just need to match. That's it.
De Weerd: Mr. Howell. I guess you have a question there.
Howell: There is a question in there somewhere, I agree, Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: Mr. Howell, you know, we can -- we can -- what is the right word? We can
set this aside for -- to do a couple more Council agenda items if you want to talk with your
team.
Howell: Madam Mayor, that's not necessary.
De Weerd: Okay.
Howell: We -- we have discussed it as you were discussing it and the tenant Winco is
certainly amenable to participating in the design process. That I think gets to the issue
that Councilman Bernt and I think also Councilman Milam really want is -- is they want
the -- the grocery store to look more like the other buildings that say signage or something.
You wanted to have that -- that look and feel, if you were, and we don't have any issue
with that and we don't have any issue of participating in that process. I think wh at we
would like to know is what that process would be and if that process is as simple as we
are directed to submit revised designs for design review to take a look at and as a part of
that design review, design review conducts a hearing -- and hearings may be the wrong
word -- but conducts a meeting that has an opportunity for public input and participation
and -- and at the end of that design review is going to make a decision with very clear
direction I think that you have already given them in conjunction with the input we would
have, absolutely. I guess my concern is -- I don't want to say, well, you guys just go off
and sort it out without any kind of guidelines for how that gets done and, then, we never
really get it sorted out. We are more than happy to participate in that process. I think we
fully understand what your concerns are in designing the building, but what we just wanted
some clarification to say that process is going to mean design review is going to have that
dialogue with us in a public meeting setting, so that they can take that public commentary
and we can put it all together and if the direction is to come back with a building that looks
more like these other buildings that you're referring, absolutely, we don't have an issue
with that.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
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Palmer: I'm -- I'm -- I agree that they -- it would certainly look better if -- if the buildings
were consistent and I think that it could be , you know, a staff level handling it to ensure
that the design as submitted is substantially compliant with this vision of the structures
throughout the development. That way you don't have to deal with us again, because we
will no doubt continue it seven more meetings in a row.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: And I'm okay giving that direction as well, as long as -- that we are very clear that
the Winco building will substantially be like the conceptual building elevations in the rest
of the park, not the other way around. Want it different and all of a sudden all the buildings
look like the Winco. So, you know, the way that these buildings look -- and you make the
-- you make the Winco building look more like that, more of a community feel, you know,
I had -- if you would take a look at what we did with -- you know, what happened with the
Costco, there is some great elevations, kind of gives you an idea of just like a much more
welcoming community kind of feel, as opposed to -- you know, you're already asking for
a much larger footprint than -- than what is supposed to be here. So, by just making it
look like -- and I'm not going to use that word again. Anyway, I think doing this would
really -- well, substantially make the neighbors a lot happier since they have to be a
neighbor to it.
De Weerd: I -- I guess the question goes to staff .
Milam: Right.
De Weerd: By saying the Winco needs to look more like the other side , is that enough
direction that you feel you can work with that?
Allen: Madam Mayor, I think requiring the Winco building to incorporate some of those
design elements as shown on the elevation there on the left -- and if there is specific
design elements you like about that, colors, anything, please point it out.
Bernt: Madam Mayor, I certainly did not mean to open up a can of worms and there is
other more important things that we need to talk about , other than this, and I apologize if
I have steered us off into the weeds. I only just want it to look the same. That -- that's it.
De Weerd: I understand.
Bernt: That -- that's all I'm saying. We don't need to -- that's just it. I don't know what
else to say. I apologize. It's my fault.
Hood: Madam Mayor, if I can just real quick -- and I don't know if that's the sentiment of
all Council, but if, in fact, there isn't this other public involvement kind of piece where it's
designed with -- with the neighborhood, I think what Sonya and I talked about is if -- if the
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applicant is willing to do that, we can attach that to the development agreement , the
revised elevations for Winco. If you don't like those revised elevations, you pull it off of
the agenda and you have a conversation about it, so -- but I think they have heard your
direction that it generally needs to match in with this and that's your opportunity then --
again it will be an exhibit in the development agreement. You will still say it needs to
substantially comply, but it will look different than what it does now and that's -- and that's
the way you do it. Now, it's a different story if we are going to have public involvement
and maybe just to clarify, we don't have a design review committee . Design review is
done at the staff level. It's not a public hearing process. So , just probably more for Mr.
Howell, but we don't have that process, so we have to come up with probably a clunky
process like we did with Costco, unfortunately. But, anyways, that's a potential solution if
-- if that's at least what a majority of you would like to see. They could submit revised
elevations and we attach that as an exhibit to the development agreement .
Howell: Madam Mayor, we are a hundred percent fine with that.
Bernt: I don't think that's a major ask.
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Caleb and I were on the same page. You still have the development
agreement to come back and it's going to take two to three weeks or so to craft that. Now,
if that takes a little longer to submit new drawings -- all your motion needs to include is
you would like new drawings as Council Member Bernt said, that this -- the Winco store
design would be more in line with the other buildings in the complex. The renderings will
come back with the development agreement. If you're not satisfied with those you can
pull that off, have that conversation. If you still think there needs to be more involvement
in some case, you can do that, then. You don't have to make that decision tonight.
De Weerd: And I think there was an elevation also submitted as part of public testimony
that -- that offers you something else as well to consider. Okay. Any other comments?
Howell: Don't think so.
Palmer: Madam Mayor? Unless anybody else --
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: I'm going to close it again. I move we close the public hearing on Item 9-D.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. All those in favor
say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
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Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: I move that we approve this application H-2017-0088, with the following conditions:
Number one, we require that there are no deliveries between 11 :00 p.m. and 6:00 a.m.
That we incorporate traffic calming measures on Bacall on that -- on the corner. Is there
any feedback in regard to exact -- you know, specifications of what type of calming
measures that we need on -- on the public record on the motion?
Nary: Mr. Bernt, I wouldn't suggest that, just because that's really going to be a discussion
with ACHD.
Bernt: Okay. But it's important to involve ACHD and also the fire department with their
-- with their opinions as well. Would we include exactly with -- in regard to the variance,
Mr. Nary?
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Bird, if you want the
same conditions that Council Member Palmer had originally moved for, that's fine.
Bernt: Okay.
Nary: That's adequate for us to be able to create findings.
Bernt: Okay. And incorporating also with this motion the information that was provided
by Mr. Palmer in regard to Highway 20-26 and the variance. I think that's about it.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion. Do I have a second?
Cavener: Second for discussion.
De Weerd: Okay. Discussion.
Cavener: Madam Mayor, question for staff. What you're hearing from Council Member
Bernt, clearly defined? Do you need any clarifications on us before we take a vote?
Madam Mayor, what I heard was that Council Member Bernt made a motion to take in all
of Council Member Palmer's previous motion --
Bernt: In regard to the variance.
Cavener: In regards to the entire pieces as I understood it, but also to add in to limit the
hours of delivery from 11:00 p.m. to 6:00 a.m. and make sure that -- work with ACHD to
determine the proper traffic calming mechanisms to go in and along Bergman . Is that
accurate?
Bernt: Yes, sir.
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Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I'm just -- it's a long night. The -- like Councilman Palmer said, if -- if they were
-- if we are going to limit -- limit deliveries, then, the reconfiguration and making them haul
everything across the store was all for nothing. They are only having their trucks there
between those hours, they still make beeping sounds, so I'm not going to be in favor of
this motion.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: As a substitute motion, I move we approve H-2017-0088 with all of my previous
findings and motion details and in addition to all of that to conclude the points of the
discussion that we made with regard to this rendering, the one for the rest of t he
development's appearance, that the Winco be in substantial compliance with that design
and that it be a staff level handling of deciding whether that is, in fact, in substantial
compliance with our -- intent of our discussion, then, we will make that final decision at
the approval.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a substitute motion and a second. Any discussion?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
Cavener: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I thought we almost would have had a unanimous vote. So, I'm not supportive
of the -- of the substitute motion. I am in support of Council Member Bernt's original
motion. I think it gets to the crux of what I think are some of the biggest outl ying issues
related to this application. I believe they would be resolved. I think we heard from the
applicant that their business model for the most part would allow some type of confidence
for our residents about the sound that would be coming in and around that facility. So ,
I'm supportive of the original motion, but I will be voting against the substitute motion.
De Weerd: Okay. Any further discussion?
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: I'm just as -- as much as I go back and forth with the beeps, I believe that
the applicant has done more than a substantial amount with changing the building and
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building the wall and everything to go out of their way to minimize the noise, maybe
completely mitigate the noise and I don't agree with the substitute motion -- I agree with
the substitute motion. Sorry. It's getting late.
De Weerd: Any further comments? I will call for the vote.
Roll call: Borton, absent; Milam, yea; Cavener, nay; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea;
Bernt, nay.
De Weerd: Okay. The ayes have it.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. TWO NAYS. ONE ABSENT.
Item 10: Department Reports
A. Parks and Recreation: Proposed Park Alcohol Permit Ordinance
Change
De Weerd: Thank you all for sticking with us and for your involvement. Okay. I will go
ahead and move to Item 10-A and that's under our Parks Department. Colin is here. And
here you thought that this was regarding your item, uh?
Moss: Yes. Good evening, almost morning, Madam Mayor and Members of the Council.
Very pleased to be here tonight to talk about process improvement that we are hoping to
implement in the -- in the spirit of some of the PEAK training that we have gone through
recently. We have kind of taken a look at some of the things that we do around the Parks
and Recreation Department and one of -- one of the things that kind of stuck out to us is
our alcohol permit process and so that's what I'm here to talk to you about tonight, just to
give you a very brief history of the alcohol permit process . When I started back in 2015
we -- we have an alcohol permit that is a 20 dollar permit. If you want to have a -- if you
want to have alcohol at your picnic shelter reservation you have to apply, fill out that
alcohol permit. The Parks and Recreation Department would send that alcohol permit
over to the police department, the police department would -- we would run a background
check on all of those applicants. I can't say exactly, you know, what -- how thorough that
background check was. The police department would, then, send it to the clerk's office
and the clerk's office would, then, sign that alcohol permit and, then, they would send it
back to us for -- to give to the applicants. A couple years after I started the clerk's office
said we don't even do anything with this when we sign it and so stop sending it to us ,
don't put our -- don't put our signature name on it and, then, just a couple of years ago
the police department made the decision that it was really not necessary for them to run
background checks on every alcohol permit applicant and so we no longer have a process
really. The Parks Department -- for the last two years the Parks and Rec Department
takes in alcohol permits, we sign them ourselves and we send them back to the applicant.
The only time that we ever deny applications is when we get an application from
somebody who is under 21 and so that's -- that's the only time that they -- that it gets
denied and so what we are proposing with this ordinance change is essentially -- it doesn't
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Meridian City Council
January 15, 2019
Page 98 of 102
do anything to change what happens on site at a park. All the guidelines are still the
same. You can still only have your alcohol around the picnic shelter. It still requires a
reservation to be able to bring alcohol with your reservation. It simply makes it so that
your reservation permit is the alcohol permit. You don't have to apply for a separate
alcohol permit and pay the additional 20 dollar fee and so, you know, we did over 300
alcohol permits this last year and Jeanette in our -- at our front desk spent a considerable
amount of time processing those, you know, chasing down the people that needed to get
those submitted to us and so we are -- you know, obviously, the -- the downside is that,
you know, we -- we took in at 20 dollars apiece over 6,000 dollars in revenue from those
alcohol permits, but it's -- it's our feeling that it is an unnecessary process and fee at this
point and this ordinance change would remove that and so I would stand for any
questions.
De Weerd: Thank you, Colin. Removing layers.
Moss: Yes.
De Weerd: You're awesome. Council, any questions?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Not a question, just a comment. I'm disappointed that our friend from the media
left. I think this is something we should be reporting. We are. And to the Mayor's point,
we are removing layers of government. That's something I'm really suppo rtive of and
congratulate you and the Parks Department team for identifying this deficiency and
working to improve our taxpayers. It's a great job.
Moss: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: And if I may add, thank you for using your PEAK training.
Moss: Absolutely.
De Weerd: You're one of the trainers; right?
Moss: Not yet.
De Weerd: Okay.
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January 15, 2019
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Moss: Not yet. Next -- next week.
De Weerd: Working on it.
Moss: Next week we have a train the trainers training.
De Weerd: Train the trainers training. Good job.
Moss: And so -- yeah. Just as a procedure, I believe it's not -- the actual ordinance
change is not on the agenda tonight, so we would come back next week with the -- without
a presentation necessarily, with just the -- just the formal change.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Thanks, Colin, for all the work that you put into this and, yeah, it's always great to
save time and save our citizens money that they don't need to just be wasting for basically
nothing. And thanks for hanging out until midnight to tell us that. We could have just put
you on next week's agenda.
Moss: Yeah.
Milam: Hopefully you got some entertainment tonight.
Moss: Happy to be here. Thank you.
Item 11 : Ordinances [Action Items]
A. Ordinance No. 19-1804: An Ordinance Amending Title 2, Chapter
6, Sections 2-3, Of The Meridian City Code, Regarding Duties,
Membership And Qualifications For The Members Of The Solid
Waste Advisory Commission Providing For A Waiver Of The
Reading Rules; And Providing An Effective Date.
De Weerd: Thank you. Mr. Clerk, will you, please, read Ordinance 11 -A by title.
Coles: Thank you, Madam Mayor. City of Meridian Ordinance No. 19-1804, an Ordinance
amending Title 2, Chapter 6, Sections 2-3 of the Meridian City Code, regarding duties,
membership and qualifications for the members of the Solid Waste Advisory Commission,
providing for a waiver of the reading rules; and providing an effective date.
De Weerd: Council, you have heard the reading of this ordinance. Do I have a motion?
Milam: Madam Mayor?
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January 15, 2019
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De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I move we approve Ordinance No. 19-1804 with suspension of rules.
Palmer: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 11-A. If there is no discussion,
Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll call: Borton, absent; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea;
Bernt, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
B. Ordinance No. 19-1805: An Ordinance (H-2018-0076 – Belveal
Subdivision) For The Re-Zone Of A Parcel Of Land Within The
Northeast Quarter Of The Northeast Quarter Of Section 18,
Township 3 North, Range 1 East, Boise Meridian, City Of
Meridian, Ada County Idaho; Establishing And Determining The
Land Use Zoning Classification From L-O (Limited Office)
Zoning District To C-C (Community Business) Zoning District In
The Meridian City Code; Providing That Copies Of This
Ordinance Shall Be Filed With The Ada County Assessor, The
Ada County Recorder, And The Idaho State Tax Commission,
As Required By Law; And Providing For A Summary Of The
Ordinance; And Providing For A Waiver Of The Reading Rules;
And Providing An Effective Date.
De Weerd: Item 11-B is Ordinance 19-1805. Mr. Clerk, will you, please, read this by title.
Coles: Thank you, Madam Mayor. City of Meridian Ordinance No. 19-1805, an ordinance
file H-2018-0076, Belveal Subdivision, for the re-zone of a parcel of land within the
Northeast Quarter of the Northeast Quarter of Section 18, Township 3 North, Range 1
East, Boise Meridian, City of Meridian, Ada county Idaho; establishing and determining
the land use zoning classification from L-O (Limited Office) Zoning District to C-C
(Community Business) Zoning District in the Meridian City Code; providing that copies of
this ordinance shall be filed with the Ada County Assessor, the Ada County Recorder, and
the Idaho State Tax Commission, as required by law; and providing for a summary of the
ordinance; and providing for a waiver of the reading rules; and providi ng an effective date.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Clerk. You have heard this read by title. Council, do I have a
motion?
Milam: Madam Mayor?
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January 15, 2019
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De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Move to approve Ordinance No. 19-1805 with suspension of rules.
Little Roberts: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 11 -B. Mr. Clerk, will you call
role.
Roll call: Borton, absent; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea;
Bernt, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
C. Ordinance No. 19-1806 : An Ordinance Repealing Meridian City
Code Section 1-14-5(B ), Regarding Disclosure And
Disqualification; And Providing An Effective Date
De Weerd: 11 -C is Ordinance 19-1806. Mr. Clerk, please, read this by title.
Coles: Thank you, Madam Mayor. City of Meridian Ordinance No. 19-1806, an ordinance
repealing Meridian City Code Section 1-14-5(b), regarding disclosure and disqualification;
and providing an effective date.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, do I have a motion?
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I move we approve Ordinance No. 19-1806 with suspension of rules.
Little Roberts: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 11 -C. Mr. Clerk, will you call
roll.
Roll call: Borton, absent; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea;
Bernt, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
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De Weerd: Council, anything under Item 12? If not, I would like to remind you about the
Mayor's Youth Advisory Council Legislative Breakfast. It should be an interesting
conversation this Saturday at 8:00 a.m. here at City Hall and to also remind you that City
Hall is closed on Monday. So, with that, if there is nothing further, I would entertain a
motion to adjourn.
Cavener: So moved.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: All those in favor say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 11:47 P.M.
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