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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2005 03-01 Pre Meridian City Pre-Council Meetina March 1, 2005 The Meridian City Pre-Council meeting was called to order at 6:30 P.M. on Tuesday, March 1,2004 by Mayor Tammy de Weerd. Members Present: Mayor Tammy de Weerd, Keith Bird, Shaun Wardle and Charlie Rountree. Staff Present: Bill Nary, Anna Canning, Brad Watson and Will Berg. Item 1. Roll-call Attendance: Roll call. -L Shaun Wardle -LChristine Donnell ~ Charlie Rountree ~Keith Bird ----X- Mayor Tammy de Weerd Item 2. Adoption of the Agenda: Bird: Mr. President. Wardle: Mr. Bird. Bird: I move we adopt the agenda as noticed. Donnell: Second. Wardle: It's been moved and seconded. All in favor say aye. ALL AYES. MOTION CARRIED. Item 3. Area of Impact Request by Dan Wood: Wardle: Dan, if you would like to come up and - Wood: Thank you very much for letting me come up. I came up here about six months ago and told you what I was working on and so we don't have all that property. What I have done is gone around to a few of the bigger parcels there and asked them if they would be interested in signing the request and see if the city would start the initiative. From my understanding, the city has to start it to what extend your area of impact. As you can see in that map, you know the parcels - whether what we own or whether the neighbors own, which are Bev Ross's trust, abut the city's south impact line. Right now, Tuscany, some subdivisions to the north are really only about a half a mile away and the way growth is going, it sure seems you know there is going to be a lot of demand in this part of town. So, I really think the impact area is going to get really crunched Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting March 1,2005 Page 2 of 10 here real soon. So, that is why we would much rather be in the City of Meridian and the family owners or the farmers that we (inaudible----) property (inaudible) that have had it for years and I think their wishes would be to see it go into Meridian too. As you can see to the east there, Boise is starting to crowd. I know their agreement with you guys is not to encroach any further there along there. But, that right there is a Boise - while it is in Boise's impact area, it is a county subdivision and I am not sure how current - they might be doing a little bit more south of that - Canning: It goes all the way south. Wood: So, Boise has come that far and as far as I know that is as far as they are going. But, I talked with the Hill's, the McKays, the ground that we own and what you see there, as far as I know it is pretty accurate. There are a few small parcels there and I didn't even ask them. I just figured you would want to see the larger parcels, assuming if you move your impact area, you would be moving it potentially all the way to Lake Hazel. So, right now our parcel has been approved for a non-farm, we can build 44 half acre to acre sites and what we are talking about doing that is down in our very south, east corner - excuse me, southwest - what we have got approved right now is right over in this portion right here. This isn't farm ground, this is a big hill. If you are all familiar with this, there is a ridge line that goes all along here and to get a non-farm approval you are encouraged not to use prime farm ground. So, we have designed a plan to be right on top of this hill with the main boulevard pretty much come along in here and coming up here and then leaving this all in farm ground until the city gets out there. We would much rather have the city come sooner rather than later, but also with your impact area we have got to start somewhere. The hills don't have any immediate plans, they just thought it made sense to ask why we were requesting it be included, realizing, from what I have been told it might take a little while to get that in place. Bird: Mr. President. Wardle: Mr. Bird. Bird: Dan, what you are actually asking us to do, which we would have to probably do is take our impact area from Amity Road to Lake Hazel and go all the way across to Ten Mile where that is now, I believe, Black Cat or McDermott, maybe - we are just asking instead of just including that little chunk, right? That would be- Wood: Is that what you would have to do --? Bird: Well, that's what I think I would want to do - at least go to 69 from their city limits and that little - Mayor isn't that the one that we had - isn't that little one Meridian City Pre-Councii Meeting March 1,2005 Page 3 of 10 there the one that we had - that's actually isn't in Boise's area? there? That one right Donnell: It doesn't show that it is. De Weerd: I think it is. Bird: That's us, isn't it? Our actual area? De Weerd: It is our area, but we agreed with Boise to - that one piece. Bird: That's right, but it was in our area. Yeah, I would think we would want to- okay, that's where it is at, over to Linder then. From Lake Hazel to Linder and from there- De Weerd: What's that bottom road? Donnell: Is that Lake Hazel? (Inaudible discussion -----------) Bird: That's the one he is showing. Wood: That's the one I am showing, Tammy, that's along the freight line there. Bird: See, we are already here, Tammy, on his red. See we are already there. De Weerd: But, our sewer master plan goes clear to Amity - it goes beyond that, doesn't it Brad? Watson: Madame Mayor, I will try and not make it confusing. The master plan goes all the way to Columbia, east of Meridian Road and then goes north up Meridian road and then jogs around on the west side of that. De Weerd: Okay. Bird: Yes, actually a mile on South Lake Hazel. De Weerd: Mr. Chairman. Wardle: Madame Mayor. De Weerd: I guess, Brad, for further discussion, this is along the Ten Mile trunk system and not the Black Cat. Meridian City Pre-Councii Meeting March 1, 2005 Page 4 of 10 Watson: Well, Madame Mayor, Mr. President yes and no. I am trying not to make this confusing. This is an extension of the Ten Mile trunk. But, all of this upstream of essentially Victory Road will be diverted to the Black Cat trunk because there is not enough capacity in the Ten Mile trunk proper to take any of this stuff south, with the caveat of the memo I sent you tonight. There are 900 units in there, but when we are looking at this many acres, that's pretty small. De Weerd: Okay, but there are 900 units that have been used in our area of impact that we currently have. I mean, these 900 units are what is available period. Watson: Correct. De Weerd: Okay. At this time? Watson: As of today. I will even couch that a little bit more, that is based on preliminary plats that Council has approved to date. Notnecessarily ones that are physically in the ground, houses that are physically built. Bird: Mr. President. Wardle: Mr. Bird. Bird: Brad, will this pick up over the Black Cat lift flow and pick up over there by Amity and - not Amity, but Victory and Meridian Road? Watson: Councilmember Bird, the Ten Mile trunk goes through this property and ends up going through Tuscany Lake Subdivision and Tuscany Village and then westward towards Meridian Road and ultimately Bear Creek. Donnell: Mr. President. Wardle: Ms. Donnell. Donnell: Dan, why is this little piece not included or this little piece? What are you showing us there? Is that just the land that you - Wood: Basically, the ground that I am showing you there is the people that sign the request. I didn't approach the little ones - not saying that they wouldn't have, I just thought, okay, to show you the area that we were talking about. Councilman Bird, I guess it was just not clear, you know, when the city increases their impact area, did they - they don't just do a little bit, you are saying take it potentially from Lake Hazel clear over to Linder? Bird: Mr. President. Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting March 1, 2005 Page 5 of 10 Wardle: Mr. Bird. Bird: That's, Dan, that's my feeling is why - if not, we will be into the county every year or so asking to add this to it because it is you guys going and you know that once you start developing out there and we are not that far off, you know that. But, once you start, the rest of those farms are going to want to start. I mean, you are going to go up by the Magerdios and just keep right on going. Wood: My understanding is that some of the parcels to the north of Amity right now are under contract, which would abut part of Tuscany and Messina Hills there, which means the sewer is potentially going to be to Amity here real soon. Bird: But, I would just as soon keep it as square and stuff as we can and at least then we can - Brad can plan his sewer service and stuff - Public Works can plan all that if we know that's in our area of impact. But, if we are just going to go ahead and piece meal at a time, like 430 acres at a time, we will be in front of the county all of the time. Wood: But at least the letter started the talk. That's what it was for. De Weerd: Mr. President. Wardle: Madame Mayor. De Weerd: I guess, Dan, I know we have had this conversation, so I am sure you are expecting it of me, but there are two real problem areas right now and in offering any immediate planning for this area. One is our road infrastructure and two is the capacity at our sewer treatment plant and until the capacity is there at the sewer treatment plant, we have to accommodate for our existing area of impact because that is what we have committed to the county to focus on during that ten-year period. Once the capacity is increased and we have infrastructure plans as far as our traffic plans are better known, we can start planning for this area. We had a strategic planning meeting on Friday and talked about the area south of our area of impact and expanding the study, right now this is in a master sewer plan and so we are preparing to grow in that area and that would probably be more of a priority growth area than the area we will be studying. But, we need to get to the property owners and to the county our plan for providing services in those areas because we do plan on servicing those areas, but we don't want any county approved developments to take away from our ability to take urban densities into those areas. So, the easements are identified and those kinds of things as well. We will know better within the next couple of years how that can start opening up in terms of first getting the capacity at the sewer treatment plant and second what the plans are for improvements to the 1-84 corridor that hopefully will be supported through the Garvey Bonds and working with ACHD on the infrastructure there. Also, we are undergoing a study right now with the rest Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting March 1,2005 Page 6 of 10 of the county with the Blueprint for Good Growth and looking how to better judge how we provide services and infrastructure improvements. Wood: Can I ask a question? De Weerd: You bet. Wood: My understanding of what Brad was saying is the Ten Mile has got a 1,000 hookups, but is the treatment - is the actual sewer system or treatment plant at capacity or --? De Weerd: We are nearing an area where we have commitments to those developments that we have already annexed and zoned for and the phasing of building out of those areas are coming a lot faster than anticipated, so yeah, we need to be careful that we don't exceed it before that expansion is in. Wood: Yeah, I didn't realize that there was capacity issue there. De Weerd: Well, there isn't, but on paper there could be. Wardle: Well, one of the things that I tend to agree with Mr. Bird in looking at our Comprehensive Map and the fact that it ends just a quarter mile south of Amity, it logically would from a property owner point of view make sense to consider an area of impact expansion to another section mile road, which would be Lake Hazel and I think what the property owners, if I am understanding your request - you are requesting to be considered to be brought into thearea of impact so that you could potentially begin annexation discussions with staff and then really talk about those sewer capacity issues at some point, but the first step is then to bring you into our area? Wood: My plan there is to at least initiate it because my understanding is that the city has initiate it with the county and it isn't a short process and I know that. So, Mayor, also with the plans and realizing that this is going to take a while, not only to get the county to approve it - I mean, at a minimum, if the county approved it, excuse me, the whole area would easily take over a year, if not, maybe two years. Which, hopefully by then you know some of your concerns would hopefully be in the process. From what I understand ACHDis hoping within the next couple of years to widen Eagle Road to at least Victory. Then within a few years after that opening to widen it clear to Amity also. So, that doesn't solve the big picture, which you are after, I understand. But, this was just in the hopes that at least starting the process and realizing that the city is not that far from - potentially the way that we are going, you know, the impact area will actually be - the city limits could actually be our north boundary here before we could even get the impact area extended, so we would actually abut the city limits, so I thought okay I had better at least approach this because there is only two property owners potentially between us and the city limits right now. Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting March 1, 2005 Page 7 of 10 Wardle: Anna, if I could ask a question as to what the process is to add pieces such as this and is it done in conjunction with other requests at the same time, not necessarily in this area, but other people that would like to be added to our impact area? Canning: Typically these are not only the properties as requested by a particular applicant, so in the past when Meridian did their comprehensive plan update in was it '89? The one previous to the 2002, they went to Ada County with a very large area of city expansion, which is the boundaries you see today and that was not at the request of each individual property owner, so it was just city staff that worked with the county to come to a mutually agreeable boundary for the area of city impact. The city had actually asked for a larger area, the county didn't feel comfortable giving it because they didn't think we could provide services within any reasonable timeframe. They were kind of wrong on that one and so we have two referral areas. This property happens to be in a referral area, so the city takes it forward to the county and says, we would like to renegotiate our area of city impact. Now, at that same time we can go with all sorts of other things if the city wants to. One of the things that the Mayor and I have talked about is going forward with portions of our subdivision code that would apply within the area of city impact as well. Did that answer your question? Wardle: It did. Was this one of the areas that the city originally asked for? Canning: Yes, it was. The other area fills out this corner, so our two referral areas are in this corner and then down here and it does go all the way down to Columbia actually, the referral area. De Weerd: Mr. President. Wardle: Madame Mayor. De Weerd: I guess as we discussed during our strategic planning meeting is that we want to take a look at - Brad will be bringing back a proposed scope of work to do a master plan for a sewer and the area between McDermott to our reference area or our referral area, that area that hasn't been mastered planned in addition to four square miles in the north - that would be separate, but as we look at that we need to involve the county - I will back up a little bit further. Our Public Works Departments, Boise, Kuna, Nampa and Meridian all got together and talked about who could best service what areas. That area was kind of carved out as Meridian is best situated to serve it. So, we need to now do the master planning for that. Second to that is when we went to the ULI, the Urban Land Institute presentation, we agree with them in that you have to look beyond your ten year commitments and your negotiation with the county when you negotiate your area of impact and show a 20 and 30 year plan. Our Public Works Department plans out at least 25 years and it would be important for not Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting March 1, 2005 Page 8 of 10 only the county, the city, but also the property owners to see how that all plans out so that they know what this will all look like. So, that is what our staff is looking at doing. When we come back and add in these referral areas in addition to any comprehensive plan amendments, well we have to be able to comprehensive plan it too. Have you started looking at land use? But, that will need to be a component of any requests include this area. I guess what we need to do is define what area we would most likely look to bring into that area of impact, give it timeframes, which the property owners are going to need to know and then as far as I can see, that this is a logical area to grow in next prior to a lot of the Black Cat expansion, but you know it's first we need to get our ducks in a row because the county has certain steps that they asked you to go through as well to in that amendment process. I guess I would suggest having Brad and Anna sit down and lets work out a timeframe at least in what the steps are necessary in doing this. The information will need in cooperation with any of the developers or property owners in that area in developing an area of impact increase, work with the county and say how best you want us to start approaching this because we have already initiated one comprehensive plan change, we have another one in the works. This would be in addition to that, so we really need to work with our staffs and get an outline of how they want us to best do those. Okay, I am thinking out loud, so did any of that make any sense? Canning: Completely, ma'am. Wardle: I would agree, Madame Mayor, that we have a process that the staff is beginning to look into and certainly I would agree that this area that the property owners are requesting would make sense. I would like to see a timeframe from the staff - just a realistic timeframe for both our purposes as well as to relay that to the property owners and I assume that the property owners here would definitely be interested in helping to put together a comprehensive plan for that portion? Wood: Sure. Canning: President Wardle, if I might. Dan you may want to stick around for the regular Council meeting. There is an update on the North Meridian Area Plan and I am going through some timelines there and I would envision that we wouldn't start this one until after that one, but that will be something that I will ask them later, so you just might want to stick around. Wood: Can I ask one more question? Wardle: Sure. Wood: So, I might have to go to Anna. So, what might happen if like I had mentioned if the city, the actual city limits get to our north boundary sooner rather than later? Now we are contiguous, we would request. at that point to be Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting March 1, 2005 Page 9 of 10 annexed and the city, I assume, there would obviously be more things to come into play, but at that point, the city I suppose could deny annexation due to the fact that it's not in your impact area? Or, what would happen then? Bird: We can't annex. Wardle: Anna? Canning: President Wardle, our zoning ordinance actually right now says that we cannot annex unless in it's our area of city impact. So, right now we could not. By the time that our city limits gets to this property that we'll likely have a new zoning ordinance that will not have that same restriction, but as it stands right now, we cannot annex outside our area of city impact with - according with the zoning, not just according to our area of city impact agreement. The state code allows it, so we can change that in the zoning ordinance, but our own code does not allow it right now. Wardle: We have - is that in the code revisions? Canning: Yes. De Weerd: Mr. President. Wardle: Madame Mayor. De Weerd: I guess, Mr. Wood, I think there seems to be a commitment from Council and the staff to start working with you, give you a better timeframe and so we appreciate you putting the wheels in motion and we had been talking about it. Wood: Thank you very much for your time. Wardle: With that, Council we have completed our agenda. Do I have a motion to adjourn? Donnell: So moved. Bird: Second. Wardle: It's been moved and seconded to adjourn. All in favor? ALL AYES. MOTION CARRIED. Meridian City Pre-Councii Meeting March 1, 2005 Page 10 of 10 MEETING ADJOURNED AT 6:55 P.M. (TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS) APPROVED: ,"""",,",